EVIDENCE

Standing Committee on the Status of Women NUMBER 050 3rd SESSION 40th PARLIAMENT Thursday, January 20, 2011 Le jeudi 20 janvier 2011 Standing Committee on the Status of Women CANADA [Recorded by Electronic Apparatus] EVIDENCE January 20, 2011 Committee Edited Evidence * Table of Contents * Number 050 (Official Version) Official Report * Table of Contents * Number 050 (Official Version) Témoignages * Table des matières * Numéro 050 (Version officielle) 50 20 01 2011 2011/01/20 08:10:00 House of Commons Comité permanent de la condition féminine Standing Committee on the Status of Women FEWO Chair The Honourable Hedy Fry 40 3

(0810) [ English ] The Acting Chair (Hon. Anita Neville (Winnipeg South Centre, Lib.)) : Good morning. We'll start the meeting. My name is Anita Neville. I'm a member of Parliament from...from where? Voices: Oh, oh! The Acting Chair (Hon. Anita Neville): From Winnipeg South Centre. I don't know where we are; we've been on the move a fair bit. Welcome. Thanks to all of you for being here on an early, cold morning. We very much appreciate it. This is the 50th meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

As you are all undoubtedly aware, we have been travelling literally right across the country speaking to the issue of violence against aboriginal women. As for Yellowknife, I've been up here a number of times, but we knew that Yellowknife would be an important stop along our way. We're anxious to hear what you have to say. We have four presentations. We're on a fairly tight timeline, but I'm going to suggest that you take seven minutes to make your presentations; I don't know what you've prepared. Following that, there will be questions by members of the committee.

If you don't get in everything that you had hoped to say, you can use the question period to add to it. Let's begin with Lorraine. Lorraine, we're delighted to see you again. It's nice to have you here. Ms. Lorraine Phaneuf (Executive Director, Status of Women Council of the Northwest Territories) : Thank you for giving us the opportunity to present. I am with the Status of Women Council of the NWT, and although we don't do front-line service, we do a lot of advocacy with women who come to us after they've probably exhausted all other resources.

Aboriginal women who come in for advocacy have indicated to us they are being terrorized in their homes, in the streets, and in the workplace. When they are thinking about and planning on leaving an abusive partner, they face many barriers and challenges in terms of housing, finances, and general well-being. It is important for women to have a safe place to go when they are fleeing from abuse. Once out, they need lots of supports, both physical and emotional, to regain their power and start over.

In Yellowknife we have both shelter and transitional housing, but not all communities have shelters, RCMP, or resources that are easily attainable. This year 314 women and 253 children used the shelter services across the territories. INAC provides operational funding to a network of 35 shelters used by first nations women who ordinarily live on reserve. In the Northwest Territories most communities have a large demographic of aboriginal women.

We have one small reserve that could potentially apply for this fund of almost $56 million, from which first nations communities are effectively excluded because a majority of first nations women of the northern territories simply do not live on established reserves. In the NWT, five shelters service an area of over 1.17 million square kilometres containing 33 communities. Current shelter programming is limited in meeting the needs of women and children who are struggling with family violence in their homes.

This limitation is compounded by a broad range of functioning among the shelters, which means women in some shelters receive more support than do women in others. For instance, some shelters operate with only three staff members and are able to offer only a safe place to stay,

whereas other shelters are functioning at a level that allows for the implementation of limited supportive programming for residents of the shelter. Currently there are very few services that are dedicated to the issue of family violence intervention, prevention, and risk management in the NWT. Rates of violence are high, yet there are few other options for families struggling with family violence. The rate of reported sexual assault in the NWT in 2008 was more than six times the national rate.

Most communities do have one of the following resources based in their community: a nurse, social worker, community wellness worker, and/or an RCMP officer. With limited support and many responsibilities, the turnover rate is very high. Residents of these small communities also have limited means to travel to another community, meaning that at times they are often not able to access any additional supports or services that might theoretically be available to them. Eleven communities in the north do not have RCMP and rely on members to come from other communities.

Further, aboriginal women suffer from the most severe, life-threatening forms of violence, including being sexually assaulted, beaten, choked, or attacked. In some communities the rate of violence against aboriginal women is as high as 90%. Council would recommend that funding be increased and that there be policy changes regarding the on-reserve funding so that shelter services and communities in the territories can do their important work of reducing violence against aboriginal women living off reserve.

We respectfully request that the committee review INAC policies within the family violence prevention program to address this issue. We need to work on culturally appropriate strategies that include fair and equitable services to all aboriginal women living in jurisdictions that lack services. We need to consider a national strategy to increase awareness and prevention of violence against women and to maximize services for family violence prevention.

We need coordination among all levels of government, non-governmental agencies, service agencies, police forces, aboriginal governments, as well as national and other aboriginal organizations. The Status of Women Council of the NWT co-chairs the Coalition Against Family Violence with the Native Women's Association of NWT. Since 2000 the Government of the NWT has been working in formal partnerships with various service agencies, non-governmental organizations, and interested professionals to develop and implement specific strategies and action plans to improve service delivery to victims of family violence.

Currently the family violence action plan phase two is in place. The Coalition against Family Violence was a partner in the development of the family violence action plan phase two. It also helps monitor the plan, and has begun the work to present further recommendations that will be presented to the Government of the Northwest Territories.

(0815) Lyda Fuller, executive director of the YWCA in Yellowknife, is a founding member of the Coalition Against Family Violence. She has been an integral stakeholder in family violence plans one and two, and she will now continue. Ms. Lyda Fuller (Executive Director, YWCA Yellowknife; Representative, Northwest Territories Coalition Against Family Violence) : Thank you.

As Lorraine said, since around 1999 the non-government organizations have been working on social issues relating to family violence and engaging the Government of the Northwest Territories, especially the social envelope departments, to improve social conditions relating to this pervasive issue. Originally, the coalition began by doing research. We wanted to describe the nature, extent, and impacts of violence against women in the territory. We released a report in December of 2002 called Family Violence in the NWT: A Survey of Costs, Services, Data Collection and Issues for Action .

Some of the key findings of that report helped us to develop the ongoing work.

Those findings included: a lack of understanding in the territory about the dynamics of family violence, and the presence of attitudes and beliefs that perpetuated it; an underfunding of the shelters for abused women, which led to staff turnover and to shelters doing bingos in order to keep their doors open; a need for improved and consistent collaboration so that there wouldn't be gaps in collaboration; a need for more resources devoted to children, youth, families, and communities; and a concern for the response of the justice system. The research led to the development of recommendations.

We tabled in the legislative assembly an NWT action plan on family violence for 2003 to 2006. Actions were around changes to policy and legislation; expanding the reach of the coalition outside of Yellowknife; capacity-building for communities; culturally appropriate training; prevention through support for healthy family relationships; education and awareness for the public; and service system enhancements for women, men, and children.

This led the government to provide an official response, called “A Framework for Action”, in 2004, which described and coordinated the efforts of various social envelope departments on 71 actions that they agreed to take. An implementation steering committee was formed by the social envelope departments, but it also included two members from the non-government associations to meet and talk about progress that was being made. Unfortunately, a number of the 71 issues were things that were already in progress and sort of tangential to the issue of family violence. However, real gains were made.

New legislation included the Prevention Against Family Violence Act, which allowed women to get emergency protection orders and have the partner leave the home so that the women and children could stay in the home. We started developing inter-agency protocols so that we could work together to better address family violence in Yellowknife, with templates for the communities. Research was summarized around programs for men who were abusive. So we felt that we'd made progress. We entered into phase two with another set of recommendations through 2012. That was funded.

We all worked together to try to condense 17 critical actions into the funding available. That happened. We are now embarking on phase three. I guess when we look at engaging with the government, one of the barriers we have to overcome is the turnover here on both sides of the table. We need to keep people connected and engaged; it's easy to lose momentum when you have the levels of turnover that we have.

(0820) The Chair (Hon. Hedy Fry (Vancouver Centre, Lib.)) : Perhaps we can follow up on some of the other things you have to say during the question and answer period, because we have gone over the allotted time. Ms. Lyda Fuller: Okay. The Chair: Thank you. Now, for the Pauktuutit Inuit Women's Association, Sandra Tucker. Ms. Sandra Tucker (Manager, Abuse Prevention Policy and Programs, Pauktuutit Inuit Women's Association) : Good morning, Madam Chair. The Chair : Ms. Tucker, I'll give you a two-minute warning when you have two minutes left, and then one.

There's leeway, but it helps you keep your head in the space. Ms. Sandra Tucker : Absolutely. Thank you to the honourable committee members for allowing me to present today. I am the manager of the abuse prevention policy programs at Pauktuutit Inuit Women of Canada. On behalf of our president, Elisapee Sheutiapik, I wish to extend our thanks to the committee for the opportunity to present on the development and implementation of our national strategy to prevent abuse in Inuit communities. Pauktuutit Inuit Women of Canada is a national organization that represents all Inuit women across Canada.

Established in 1984, our mandate is to foster greater awareness of the needs of Inuit women and to advocate for their equitable participation in community, regional, and national concerns. Pauktuutit is active in a wide range of areas. Files include health policy and programs, gender equality, violence and abuse prevention, protection of cultural and traditional knowledge, economic development, climate change, and leading in policy development and community social change.

Since its inception in 1984, abuse and violence prevention has been a high priority, yet a lack of recognition and resources has caused change to be painfully slow. Those who work in abuse prevention and community services--shelter workers, crisis counsellors, Inuit healers, and police--are discouraged, and nowhere is this discouragement more acute than in the north. In the north, for example, the circuit court system can be a significant barrier to accessing justice for Inuit women.

Furthermore, dynamics of family violence and abuse can be different in smaller communities that are facing the unique challenges and circumstances of overcrowded housing, poverty, and high costs of living, combined with lack of basic community programming. In addition, over 70% of northern and remote communities do not have a safe or emergency shelter for women to access when fleeing abuse. New and emerging issues for Inuit women are related to resource extraction activities, transient workers, and the associated increases in sexual and domestic violence, exploitation, and substance abuse and alcohol addictions.

A considerable sustained effort with adequate resources continues to be urgently needed. The strategy was created through consultation and collaboration with those most affected by abuse and those whose mandates include prevention and treatment--safe shelters, justice, and corrections. Pauktuutit brought together a multidisciplinary team of health and social service workers, RCMP, court services, safe shelter operators, and Inuit associations from across Inuit Nunangat.

The Aboriginal Healing Foundation, NAHO, and observers from the Inuit relations secretariat and programs branch at INAC, Justice Canada, and Qulliit Nunavut Status of Women were also involved. We all share a common interest in preventing abuse in Inuit communities and collaborating on the development and the implementation of this unique community-based strategy.

The strategy is based on the six Inuit principles of healing and working together: working together for the common good, environmental wellness, service to others and leadership, empowerment, resourcefulness and adaptability, and cooperation and consensus. The strategy began with a vision of an Inuit society of healthy individuals who respect the past and embrace the future as Inuit, and who live in supportive families and caring communities where violence and abuse are rare occurrences and are dealt with swiftly and justly, according to the Inuit ways.

Abusers are held accountable for their actions, and both victims and abusers are supported in their healing process. The goal of the strategy is a steady reduction of violence and abuse in Inuit communities and the eventual predominance of caring, healthy, and respectful relationships.

We envision the attainment of these goals by meeting objectives outlined in the strategy: to develop sustainable relationships among partner organizations that are committed to the reduction of violence; and to coordinate efforts so that resources can be best used to the best advantage, and implement effective and culturally appropriate services and programs to prevent abuse and promote healing. In addition, the national strategy sets out strategic priorities for the implementation. Our first priority is to make abuse in Inuit communities a priority issue, which we have done.

Priorities also include: to raise awareness and reduce the tolerance of abuse; to invest in training and capacity development; to sustain front-line workers and community services; to deliver services that heal Inuit; and to expand programs that build on Inuit strengths that prevent abuse.

(0825) The accompanying guide, “Sharing Knowledge, Sharing Wisdom”, provides inspiration, ideas, and examples of successful initiatives that can help individuals, groups, and communities implement the national strategy. The guide includes tools to use designed for Inuit communities.

They include information on community mobilization; advice on the national advisory committee on advocating for change; facts and statistics that can be used to convince others; some thoughts on the root causes of abuse in Inuit communities; Inuit principles of healing and working together; steps in planning activities and actions; and sources of information and help. Since 2006 Pauktuutit Inuit Women of Canada has used the national strategy as a guiding tool in the development and implementation of projects aimed at abuse and violence.

In 2006-07, through the support of Status of Women Canada, Pauktuutit implemented the violence against women and children project. The objective of this project was to identify promising practices in violence and abuse prevention. In total, we consulted 11 communities, and each community formed its own coordinating committee in order to address the needs of the community they live in. During the same period, we undertook a broad dissemination of the national strategy, including presentations at various events and workshops.

Because of the national strategy, we began the process that led to the development of the national Inuit residential schools healing strategy. It has been implemented predominantly through support of projects by INAC. Concurrent to this work, we began our work on the women's shelter component, including the creation of the National Inuit Women's Shelter Association and the development of our “Making our Shelters Strong” training module for front-line workers. We continue to work on these two components.

The shelter training has now been delivered in each of the four regions of Inuit Nunangat, and there continues to be an ongoing demand for the training, not only by shelters but also by various community and governmental agencies and departments. In response to participant feedback, we are currently developing a web-based training module, as well as peer-to-peer user forums for shelter workers and a single point of contact for the shelter association. This site will also contain a blog, which will serve as a means for us to disseminate emerging resources and practices to the shelters across the north.

We have also undertaken what we term as on-the-land projects. In the last fiscal year we were able to take two groups of women, one group aged 20 to 55 and the other group aged 55 to 82, for a week-long on-the-land project. Our younger women's project had women taking the leadership role in family violence, where we integrated traditional activities of kamik-making and being on the land. We combined that with education, resource building, and information sharing, so that the women could take the leadership role.

Our most successful project to date has been with regard to elder abuse awareness, where we took eight elders on the land—and our youngest was 82—for a week-long expedition out into the country just outside of Kuujjuaq, Quebec, where our elder women not only returned to their traditional practices but we were able to provide them with information, resources, and a safe place to talk about the elder abuse occurring. I'm going to stop here. If you have any questions, by all means. Thank you. The Chair : Thank you very much, Ms. Tucker.

We go now to the Yellowknife Health and Social Services Authority, Barbara Lacey and Sheila Nelson. Who's going to speak for the group, Ms. Nelson? Mrs. Sheila Nelson (Manager, Community and Family Services, Child Protection Program, Yellowknife Health and Social Services Authority) : I guess I'm nominated to do that. I'll start off. The Chair : All right. I think everyone seems to have gone ten minutes. I'm not going to give you ten minutes, but we're going to play with it.

(0830) Mrs. Sheila Nelson : I won't take ten minutes. Good morning, everyone. On behalf of the Yellowknife Health and Social Services Authority, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the committee for the invitation to appear before you today. I'd like to begin by saying that as a service provider mandated to carry out the roles and responsibilities of protecting children, we see the devastating impact that family violence has on aboriginal women and their children daily. Violence against women has a ripple effect.

Violence creates fear, and this fear impacts all women, including the service providers whose role it is to support and protect them. Our child protection staff is currently all women. Acts of violence tend to trigger emotions for people, and on numerous occasions I have witnessed staff being intimidated by the high-risk situations that some of the aboriginal women they work with are faced with every day. We see and hear many reasons why aboriginal women find it difficult to end an abusive relationship.

There is fear of retaliation, not only from the perpetrator of the violent crime but also from community members as well as members of their own family. Often the women lack resources to support themselves and their children with the basic necessities of life. We see some aboriginal women who have tried to leave abusive relationships only to return because they didn't feel they received the support from their family, friends, and the agencies tasked to help them build lives free from violence.

A number of the aboriginal women we see have poor self-esteem due to a history of witnessing and experiencing violent acts since they were young children. To ease the pain, they sometimes turn to substances such as alcohol, street drugs, prescription medications, or solvents. Unfortunately, doing this can in turn have a spiralling effect, and quite often it's the reason their children are apprehended. In 2010 Yellowknife Health and Social Services received 74 reports of violence occurring in homes where children were present. This number does not reflect the reality within which we work.

The majority of these calls came from law enforcement when they were called to homes where there was family violence. A large number of the reports we receive are referred because of neglect or alcohol-related issues. Once a report is investigated, we learn that family violence is also prevalent, and it is often the underlying cause of the neglect. In December 2010, just one month ago, our agency had 51 active family service files.

Out of this number, 34 of the families had been identified as having ongoing family violence issues, which is a contributing risk factor to the safety of the mothers and their children. These families have a total of 71 children who have been exposed to or affected by domestic violence in one form or another. Children who live with domestic violence face numerous risks, such as the risk of exposure to the traumatic events, the risk of neglect--which is often the reason given when we receive a report from someone who is concerned about a situation--along with the risk of being directly abused.

In order to develop solutions that will empower aboriginal women to sustain themselves, they need to be provided with tools that are readily available and easy to access. I can't stress that enough. It is important that aboriginal people be respected and listened to when they share with others what is in the best interests of aboriginal people. It is equally important that perpetrators of violent acts be held accountable. Programming needs to be accessible in small communities for all parties, for without some form of change in this regard, aboriginal women and children will continue to be at risk of harm.

It's imperative that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women continue its efforts to support the human rights of aboriginal women to be protected from acts of violence. To the aboriginal women who have suffered acts of violence, lost family members, and overcome challenges they have faced along life's journey, we salute you. As an agency, we will continue to do our part to advocate on behalf of aboriginal people in order to get the services they deserve to deal with the conflict issues we see every day. I thank you for your time. The Chair : Thank you very much. That was great. You were under five minutes.

(0835) Mrs. Barbara Lacey (Manager, Clinical Supervisor, Community Mental Health and Addictions, Yellowknife Health and Social Services Authority) : Can I take the other five? The Chair : You'll get your chance. As we go into the question session.... Oh, you wanted to do another few minutes. Fine. I thought it was just Ms. Nelson alone. You have time. Go ahead. Mrs. Barbara Lacey : Thank you. I'm the manager for Community Mental Health and Addictions for Yellowknife Health and Social Services. Community Mental Health and Addictions is made up of family counselling.

Family counselling provides individual work to men and women as well as couples therapy. We do the mental health work for children for Yellowknife Health and Social Services, so 30% of our referrals are from child and family services for work with children. And the children they're referring to us are the children who, for the most part, have been victims of family violence. The other issues that might show up could be grief, sexual abuse, at-risk behaviours, or not attending school. Those might be the primary factors that are identified, but family violence is most often behind them.

Reasons adults are referred include depression, stress, individual partners in relationships seeking support, grief, separation and divorce, and addictions. If we look behind those, most often there is the issue of family violence. In the last three months alone, according to our intake person, who does same-day appointments--we've provided two same-day appointments daily, so someone can call in the morning if they're in crisis and get an appointment--she's seen 19 aboriginal women living with family violence, and another ten aboriginal women have made it on to our wait list. That's just in the last three months.

I've been here only a year, so Yellowknife is very new to me, and I can speak only about Yellowknife. We have two communities, Lutsel K'e and Fort Res, which I've become familiar with. But when I have looked at our caseload for the year I've been here, at any point I could have pulled five or six men out of that caseload. If we had a group to support these men who have had issues of violence, that would be great. I know we're working with the justice people. I know there's a partnership to get this kind of a group going, but to me it's one of the significant missing links.

So we really need to be supporting the men who have the issues of violence if we're going to make a difference to the family. The second piece I have noticed missing—I've worked on task forces concerned with family violence since 1989—is the education groups. I know they were spoken about, but we don't have one in Yellowknife. If we don't have one in Yellowknife, we probably don't have one in the rest of the Northwest Territories. They're called survivor groups, and they're usually run by transition houses.

So the women would maybe do some individual work with a counsellor, and then we'd refer them to this group program through transition services. They'd go through this education program, and then maybe they'd come back and do individual work. We don't have that kind of a group, and our shelters don't have the funding support or the staff support to run that kind of a program. We do individual work with these women, but I'd love to see a group program started. That doesn't mean that family counselling can't do it--we're looking at it--but it's tough to do everything.

We have a family violence protocol group, and we're working on a common tool, the ODARA tool, Ontario domestic assault risk assessment tool, which is wonderful. We are training across the Northwest Territories on how to use the tool. Having a common screening tool is very important, and I think we're doing great work on that. Family counselling uses a screening tool for couples, so we have many. For one thing, we're still funded to do couple work, and there isn't that kind of funding anywhere else in the country. So that is a real blessing. We certainly need it here because of the family issues that we address.

So we are still funded to do couple work, and we have a screening tool. With that screening tool, most of the couples are initially screened out for violence. It would be really nice to be able to do the education with the male partner around the violence issues, but so far we haven't been able to put that group together. And we need the training to put that group together. For me, those are big pieces that are missing. Primary care is another project that Community Mental Health and Addictions is involved in. We've moved into this primary care clinic downtown, and we've moved family counselling in.

That means that our physicians can refer clients coming in to see them to family counselling quite easily. We build the connections.

(0840) We did this exercise yesterday as a team where we were clients, and we all had of these case situations. We had to go around to housing, in one part of the YPCC, and income support somewhere else, and mental health somewhere else. I had 22 steps I had to take as a client to try to get what I needed, and in the end my children were taken away from me. You know, we're trying to do primary care, and we're really trying to help, but if we look at the client.... It's so cold out there, and there's no transportation. Housing in Yellowknife is very expensive. Employment is really tough to come by.

I felt dizzy, absolutely dizzy, with those 22 steps, trying to get to all of the places I had to get to. In the end, I'd done everything I should have done--I'd gone for addiction help, I'd gone to mental health and income support, I'd talked to child and family, the whole deal--and still my kids were taken away. So we've got lots to do. The Chair : Thank you very much, Ms. Lacey. That was very interesting. We're now going to go to the question and answer section. This is a seven-minute round. I'm going to be.... Please look at me, because we can't keep going over.

If we go over too much, then the next panel gets a shorter period of time. We need to remember that. We will begin with Ms. Neville for the Liberals. Hon. Anita Neville : Thank you, Hedy. Thank you very much for your presentations. I'm sitting here trying to formulate a question. As you're undoubtedly aware, we've been on the road and we've heard about a number of situations, much of what you've identified here today--lack of resources, lack of staff, the need for more help.

One of the things I'm struck by, listening to you, and maybe I'm missing something, is that there seems to be a community willingness to coordinate, to plan, to work together that we haven't found in quite the same way in many other communities. In fact, in some it's been quite the opposite and quite disastrous. The other thing, as I'm listening to you, is that you all represent service delivery organizations, and you talk about.... One of you, and I think it was Lyda, made the comment that it's important that our clients be respected and listened to. It was you, Sheila? I'm sorry.

One of the things we've heard on our travels is that aboriginal women particularly do not feel respected, do not feel listened to, do not feel valued by the communities, and are frequently marginalized and treated in a very disrespectful way. We're just getting a half-an-hour view from five of you sitting here, but I guess I'd like to know a little more about the dynamics. If I'm right in saying that you are working together, recognizing that your problems are not insignificant but that you're making a coordinated effort to address them, what's making that possible--if I'm right? Ms.

Lyda Fuller : I'd like to answer that. I think the Coalition Against Family Violence has been very effective in having all of us work together. It's not easy. It takes a lot of work--it takes skill--among the members to compromise and to come to agreement. But the issue in the Northwest Territories is so pervasive and so impactful on the lives of women, and the front-line workers hear and experience so many chilling stories and examples, that it really motivates us to work together as a group. We want to make progress in a planned way.

Barb Lacey was talking about services for men who use abuse; well, the coalition has been working on that issue over a long period of time. We're finally now at the point where there's going to be a pilot project, but a huge among of time has been spent in the development of a good program for that, a program that will be effective and that takes into account all the learnings across the country. We had a real arm-wrestling experience when we were trying to fit those 17 action items into the amount of money.

We knew that we had to support the existing shelters that were underfunded and we knew that the women keep asking us for services for their partners, so with limited funding, how do you do that? Our government partners were at the tables with us. We finally came to an agreement that we would fund the shelters and seek outside funding to augment the territorial government funding for the development of the program for men who use abuse. We have heated debates and heated exchanges, but we are all really driven by what we see every day and by the pain for women, children, and whole communities--and for the men, too.

We're a small territory. We form relationships with each other, and trust develops over time. We work hard to try to preserve that and to move forward in ways that will really, at the end of the day, have a positive outcome for those women.

(0845) Hon. Anita Neville : Thank you. Does anybody else want to comment? Sandra? Ms. Sandra Tucker : Yes, I'd like to comment as well. One of the things that Pauktuutit takes exceptional pride in is that any project, any program we deliver within the communities, starts with the communities. All of our projects are driven by advisory committees made up of community members, local subject-matter experts, and input from our partners, which are often the land claims organizations, the GNWT, the GN, and the Nunavik Regional Government. We start off by going in and saying: “Here's an idea. Let's work together.

You tell us what's going to work for you”. We do that rather than going in and saying, “We think you need to do this”. This model has been exceptionally successful in that it creates community mobilization. From the inception of the project to the delivery, the end of the project, the community has a stake in what's going to happen. All of our projects are tailored to the needs of the specific communities. We'll go in with the model and that model gets adapted to what the community needs are.

Not unlike what Lyda was saying, we see it nationally that women are fearful of going into safe shelters--if they're even available in the northern communities--out of the fear that their children are going to be taken away. Even if they go to the shelter, the protocols and procedures of various organizations that need to come together in order to support a women's transition to safety are incongruent and often opposing. So you need to be on the housing list, but in order to get on the housing list you need a letter from income supports to say that you're going to get income support.

But if your husband has damaged the residence you're at, you're still responsible for the arrears. It is a vicious cycle that keeps women down. One of the major concerns that we've had, Anita--and we've spoken of it--is that lack of sustained funding for shelters. We have 53 northern remote fly-in communities. As of today, we have 14 operational shelters. Hon. Anita Neville: Wow. The Chair : Ms. Tucker, Ms. Neville, we've gone over time. Thank you. We now have Madame Demers for the Bloc Québécois. [ Translation ] Ms. Nicole Demers (Laval, BQ) : Good morning, ladies. Thank you for being here.

I am very surprised this morning to hear that so many people agree on the solutions needed to counter violence against aboriginal women, all the more so since certain organizations are local, recognized agencies. Indeed, we have not seen that anywhere else. It must be said that we have not heard from many agency representatives, be they local, provincial or from some other level of government; people did not come. I am happy to welcome you here this morning, Ms. Nelson and Ms. Lacey. We are very pleased to know that you are working together. It is surprising, but it makes me very happy.

In other places, people want to get rid of others rather than help them. The other day, we learned that some physicians wanted to get all of the drug addicts out of Williams Lake. They want to eject them from the city rather than treat them. They are not going to be offered any treatment. If people arrive at the hospital after having taken any drug whatsoever, because they are injured or because they have broken an arm or a leg, they will not be treated; so there is no point even trying. The situation is quite serious in several places. Women are being mistreated.

Your coalition functions very well, but does it work as well within the community? Do you have the respect and support of the community? Does that support extend to the people your coalition seeks to help? You are looking for housing for the women you want to help. Are you finding affordable housing for these women, places where they will be able to raise their children without fear? You seem to be telling me that it is difficult. Is there racism in the community? We were told last night that Yellowknife has the highest average household income in Canada.

If that is the case, how is it that aboriginal women and men are poor? Homes cost at least $350,000. Who can afford a house at that price? I would like you to answer those questions. (0850) [ English ] The Chair : Who would like to try that first? Sheila, would you like to go? Mrs. Sheila Nelson : Oh dear, that's a tough one. That's a tough question. Certainly the points that you've made are very well taken.

In my experience, working at the front line and managing a very good team of social workers, I find that when we go for services, the services are not as readily available as we would like them to be for the clientele we are tasked with servicing. Housing is definitely an issue. Yes, properties are expensive in Yellowknife. A lot of our families cannot afford to rent apartments. Unfortunately, we have one landlord in town who owns a lot of the buildings, so if you're evicted by that property owner, it's often difficult to find housing in another unit.

Personally, and I'm speaking from my own experience, I would like to see the departments work more closely together. I find that housing, income support, and social services through our Yellowknife Health and Social Services Authority need to work out a system where the services for the families we're here to assist are more readily available. Right now, as a last resort, families are referred to child and family services because the family doesn't have any housing. We try very, very hard not to bring children into foster care because of the fact there isn't housing available.

Very often, social services is the one that ends up paying rental arrears, so people will have a place to live. It doesn't make sense to me. We need more people at the table to build and develop a solution that is going to maintain the families who require services. It puts a lot of stress on people. Unfortunately, the stress that parents are experiencing impacts children. As much as we don't want to apprehend children, there are occasions when we do. We have a lot of positive things going for us, don't get me wrong, but there are still areas where we could improve.

I think if we worked more cooperatively as departments, we would provide better service overall.

(0855) The Chair : You have one and a half minutes left. Ms. Lyda Fuller : I'd just like to acknowledge that housing is a huge issue here. If I could make one plea to the federal government, it would be for a national housing strategy. Voices: Hear, hear! Ms. Lyda Fuller: It's a huge issue for us, and it's going to get worse, because the federal funding for social housing is backing out. It will become strictly a territorial responsibility. So, please, we would love a national housing strategy. I'd just like to comment about community engagement.

It's difficult in the north to spread your impact out, especially to the small isolated communities. The four women's organizations have recently undertaken a three-year project with funding from Status of Women Canada, and supplemental funding from Justice Canada and INAC, to work with women in the 11 small communities without RCMP. We just started that work at the beginning of the summer. I am fascinated by how that's going. But the women are feeling supported. They said to us that we couldn't go in just once; we would have to be there for them. That's what we're doing.

So we'll have lots to report down the road on that. The Chair : I will now go to Mrs. Grewal, for the Conservatives. Mrs. Nina Grewal (Fleetwood—Port Kells, CPC) : Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to thank all the witnesses for appearing today and sharing their insights with our committee on this very, very important issue. I think we all agree that violence against aboriginal women is a very, very serious problem. Unfortunately, it's a very complicated problem with no easy solutions at all. I'm wondering if you could highlight any success stories taking place here in B.C., Yellowknife, and Alberta.

They could be successful lessons, which we could then use throughout Canada. Ms. Sandra Tucker : I firmly believe that the models our organization has developed can be applicable in any community across this country, particularly within aboriginal communities, be that first nations, Métis, or Inuit, because they are models designed for the community to put their input into and to tailor them the way they are. We also look at really integrating the cultural traditions and the cultural way of life back into our programming. We're actually successful on both sides.

One of the biggest successes we've had has actually been with the on-the-land projects, to the point where other government and territorial regional health boards have said that this is so successful--their communities are saying that they want more--that they're actually funding this to occur. We've gone in and we've presented it when we've piloted it in the communities. Now the communities are saying, “You know what? We see this.” Our communities are strong. The 53 northern and remote Inuit communities are strong. They are survivors. Although we have very, very few resources, they do amazing work.

I think one of the things we need to take into perspective is that in the north, at a lot of our shelters, the woman can only stay for a maximum of six days. How do you arrange housing, income support, mental health, addictions, all of that, in six days? You don't. And that's given that a woman has access to these shelters. We have some communities that are.... All of our communities and fly-on and fly-out.

I have yet to come across any abused woman who has $5,000 or $6,000 at her disposal to grab a plane ticket to get to the nearest shelter or to go to the south to get away from abuse, where often she is abused again because of the vulnerability. I think one other point that really does need to be recognized is that because of the lack of support...and it comes down to money and the lack of money. Often Inuit women are told by health and social services--and this is not finger pointing here--that they don't have the resources to fly them out.

We have documented 16 cases so far of where a woman has been murdered by her spouse within 48 hours of returning home after trying to get away from the community. This is unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable. We should not be subjugating any survivor of abuse, be it a woman or a child, to that.

(0900) The Chair : Nina, is that your question, or would you like to ask another one? Mrs. Nina Grewal: No, anyone can answer. The Chair: Ms. Lacey. Mrs. Barbara Lacey : You asked about a “good news” story. This isn't necessarily about a victim of family violence that I'm actually aware of; it's about a young woman who's a single parent with a couple of children. She's in her early twenties and she has her mother in the picture, so her mother's able to look after the children. This young woman was able to go to Aurora College, do her diploma in social work, and do a practicum with us in family counselling.

Because of the internship program at YHSSA and Stanton health authority, she now has a social work position prior to her finishing her degree with Stanton. If I think back to the beginning of the feminist program back in the early eighties, that's when women started standing up and speaking. I think our aboriginal women have to be visible, have to be present, have to be in the positions. So to me this is a good news story in that we have a young woman, an aboriginal single parent, who is getting some education and who, because of both the education policies here and the internship program, has a position.

We'll start to see some of that representation, I hope. To me, that's a good news story. But we need our aboriginal women to be seen. Mrs. Nina Grewal : Madam Chair, do I have some more time left? The Chair : You have two minutes. Mrs. Nina Grewal : Okay. It's suggested that one solution to reducing violence against aboriginal women is education campaigns. If women have a better understanding of their rights, and resources are made available to them, they will take better steps to protect themselves.

Do you believe that education campaigns would be an effective weapon in tackling violence against aboriginal women? Ms. Sandra Tucker : I think education is always a good thing, but again, speaking on behalf of the 53 isolated and remote communities in the north, you can do all the education you want and you can do all the safety planning you want, but if there are no resources on site, nothing's going to change, right? We can talk about younger women or we can talk about elders; if there's no safe shelter, if there's no mental health counselling, if there's limited police interaction.....

I mean, NWT is fortunate in that they have the emergency protection orders that force the abuser to leave. In Nunavut that's not the case; the woman again is taken out. So I think we really need to look, at a federal-provincial-territorial level, at ensuring that each and every community has resources. The best education campaigns are worthless without the resources to follow through on those plans. The Chair : We have thirty seconds, if anyone would like it. Mrs. Barbara Lacey : I just want to refer to the anti-poverty conference that many of us were at this fall.

Out of that anti-poverty conference, the issues that were identified by the aboriginal community were housing--if it's there you still can't get into it because you don't meet the criteria--the cost of food, wanting a subsidy for food, and the relationship with income support. I think those were the main issues that were identified. And for family violence issues, those connections all have to be worked on if our women are going to be able to get out of situations and into new situations. The Chair : Thank you very much. Now we go to Mr. Bevington for the New Democratic Party. Mr.

Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic, NDP) : Thanks, Madam Chair. I want to thank you all for participating in this today. I've had the chance to participate today because our critic in this area, Irene Mathyssen, was unable to attend, but I'm very pleased to be here as well, because of course as a lifelong resident of the Northwest Territories I have experienced these issues every day throughout that time. I'm seeing the effects of it. I want to touch a bit on preventative work that has been done. I remember when I was mayor in Fort Smith in the late eighties and we had the first “Take Back the Night” march.

I remember that the reaction of some men to that was really quite extraordinary, they felt so threatened by it. But as the course of those “Take Back the Night” marches went on, that disappeared. What can we do throughout the north to continue the work to raise the awareness of men about their roles, their responsibilities, about their interaction with women in society? Is it something we should take up more in the schools? Is it something that should be a national campaign of awareness for men across the country, continuing to do that work?

What are your answers there about the preventative work that we need to do?

(0905) Ms. Lorraine Phaneuf : I can only speak to small steps that we've made through the coalition. Government and non-government work together to come up with strategies and work together. Sometimes folks are there and they talk about different issues, not necessarily ones the coalition is working on, but we do promote awareness. This year for “Take Back the Night” we had a huge representation of men who attended the walk. I often call it the most phenomenal day I've had here in Yellowknife. It was awesome. We had good press coverage. We had community agencies coming together to discuss the issues.

The media was there. We had pictures of all kinds of cases on a big flip chart, all the cases in one year of abuse and violence on the streets in Yellowknife. People were engaged. I've been here for five years, and sometimes there were a few women's groups walking and that would be about it. But this year I don't know what we did or what we didn't do. I suspect it had something to do with the white ribbon campaign. Some young men from Yellowknife have been quite involved in that. I don't know if they brought it or what happened, but it was actually a very good event.

I think the work of the coalition is important. Although we may not have every task force that they have down south, we certainly have very passionate people at the table who are interested in the same goals and visions, and oftentimes projects such as the one the Y is doing have engaged the women's groups to help. So we get to also hear what's happening; we're not working in a silo. We hear what's happening in the small communities, and I think it's just a good way to move forward. The Chair : Ms. Nelson. Mrs. Sheila Nelson : Thank you for bringing that question forward, Dennis.

From what I see on the front lines--and I often don't get an opportunity to be involved in the larger picture in the community because of the workload I have, but what I do see and what I did when I worked in the eastern Arctic.... When I worked there I worked in the area of sexual abuse. As a new person to the north, I went into all the remote communities and Baffin Island, and I thought, oh dear, there are a lot of issues here, but how am I going to address them? So I thought to myself, okay, I can't do this alone.

I need to form relationships within the community, and I need to find some strong males who are here who will speak out against abuse against children. I think we need to do that in the Northwest Territories. I think we need to do that at the grassroots level. I don't think people want to address violence. They know it's wrong, but they're afraid to speak out. I think we really need to have men on board to speak out about violence in communities. I'm all for having education in the schools as well. I think our young children need to know what's acceptable and what's not.

Although the Government of the Northwest Territories has a no tolerance policy, there are times when my staff take a lot of verbal abuse from people who come into the office. I'm very adamant, if that is the case, and they're told it's not acceptable. You need to speak to people in a proper way. I would certainly do all that I could to bring more men on board to speak out against the violence in the communities. Without that, without role models, I can't see a lot of changes occurring.

(0910) The Chair : Thank you. Ms. Fuller. Ms. Lyda Fuller : I just wanted to say that in December I was in Whitehorse, and they have been conducting a campaign. I brought posters back to bring to the coalition. They engaged men and they have developed posters with men saying, this is not okay, and I honour my wife and I protect my kids. They have had lots of success with that. They gave me a group of posters, and we'll talk about it at the coalition. I think it's critical. The Chair : Ms. Tucker, quickly. Ms. Sandra Tucker : Very quickly, I just want to talk about engaging men.

In Nunavut, actually in Repulse, there is a men's counselling project going on. When an individual is charged under the domestic violence act, he and his spouse are referred to this program. He undergoes anger management; he gets a lot of psychological education around violence and abuse prevention. They're given couples counselling, and she's also given counselling. Out of the 64 individuals who have been court ordered to attend this, there have only been two individuals who have been subsequently charged with a domestic violence offence. The rest have made changes in their relationships.

Maybe this is something we need to look at as a part of this: if you're going to be charged, this is what you have to do. If there's successful completion, the charges are dropped. So we're educating that way as well. The Chair : Thank you very much, Ms. Tucker. Now we're going to go to a second round. The second round is five minutes; that means five minutes for questions and answers. I'll begin again with Ms. Neville for the Liberals. Hon. Anita Neville : Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

An issue that has not come up here today, which I would be interested in knowing a little bit about, is what is your relationship, as agencies, as organizations, with the police? What is the role of the police in addressing domestic violence? How does the person who is abused deal with the police? Do they go? What's the role of the police in this community? We've been hearing different things across the country. The Chair : Ms. Tucker. Ms. Sandra Tucker : Very quickly, from a national organizational standpoint, our relationship with the policing services, be they regional or RCMP, is actually phenomenal.

They're actually calling us and saying, “Here's the situation we're facing. What information do you have? How can you help us?” To have that exchange with policing services is phenomenal. We know from a national perspective that they're engaged in the work that we're doing and we're engaged with them. The Chair : Ms. Nelson. Mrs. Sheila Nelson : I would have to say that the working relationship our staff have with the RCMP is very positive. There are times when we have our differences, but we're able to work those through.

Many of the calls that we get are call-outs after hours, in the evening, from the RCMP asking for assistance. I have seen them on many occasions to be very accommodating of the victim and supportive. Again, it depends. Some people are more comfortable with that role than others, but overall I think we're quite fortunate. In the smaller communities of Fort Resolution and Lutselk'e I haven't had any concerns being voiced by staff. They're always there when we need them and they do their best as well. So we're fortunate. The Chair : Ms. Phaneuf. Ms.

Lorraine Phaneuf : For us, our role with police would be mostly to sit on committees. They're usually very interested in doing that. A lot of times we get a frantic phone call from women in small communities where there may be no RCMP present, or there is RCMP but they're scared. So oftentimes I will just call our person from the coalition. He works with us to call those police officers, those Mounties that are in those communities. Sometimes what happens is the women feel the men are going to be in remand, but then they're sent back.

There's no shelter there, and unless something else happens there's not much the police can do, so they're usually frightened in their own homes. Oftentimes we'll call and just ask them to keep an eye on them. They always say yes, they will. I don't know if they actually do. I have no evidence of that, but am hoping they actually do that. So for us it's been quite positive.

(0915) The Chair : One and a half minutes, Ms. Fuller. Ms. Lyda Fuller : Because we're designates for the emergency protection orders, we've been working closely with the RCMP in most of the communities across the territory. I would say they try very hard. It's variable what you hear back at the community level. We meet with them regularly, and whenever we raise an issue—and we will dog it, let me tell you—they have followed up and responded. So we have seen some good outcomes over time around that, but there' s always work to be done. I think it's very difficult in the small communities without RCMP.

In my presentation later I will talk about how sometimes they can't find some of the partners. When they serve emergency protection orders, it was a bumpy start-up, but we've been five years into that process and things have gotten better. We do have an ongoing regular relationship with them. Hon. Anita Neville : If I could just make a quick comment, Madam Chair.... The Chair : Yes, you have 30 seconds. Hon. Anita Neville : There seems to be something different about this community that we've not experienced nor heard about in many others we've participated in.

That is not to minimize the problems and the challenges you have, but there seems to be a distinguishing characteristic here. We need to find it, articulate it, bottle it, and recommend it. Thank you. The Chair : Very well said, Anita. I go to Ms. Cadman, for the Conservatives. Ms. Dona Cadman (Surrey North, CPC) : I'm going to ask a question, and I don't mean it to be rude or anything, but I want to know: are any of you Inuit or aboriginal? Yes, I thought you would be. We have been told that aboriginals want services for aboriginals, about aboriginals, and run by them. Now, you're not. How does this work here?

Are they upset that you're not an aboriginal? Are they upset that you're a white person working for them? How does that work? Mrs. Sheila Nelson : My experience has been that it depends on how you relate to that individual. I think there are some aboriginal people who do struggle with the fact that I might be Caucasian, but on the whole, I would have to say that I'm very well accepted by the people I work with. I would like to see more aboriginal people involved. We certainly do strive to have aboriginal staff in our office. I think, though, overall, I guess I can't say enough.

It really depends on who you are and how you relate to the individual before you. I think it's so important that we respect each person who comes to us for assistance or that we seek out. You work at developing your relationship to the betterment of them. Ms. Dona Cadman : Are you taking some of these younger women who may have gone through a program and mentoring them to help you, to hire them if you can, or to use them as role models? Mrs. Sheila Nelson : No. We do have—and I think Barb touched on this—the Government of the Northwest Territories if you are an aboriginal person....

If you're a social worker and you get your degree or complete the diploma program, then you are put in a position in one of the social service offices. We have had a number of staff come to us that way. We work along with them and they're out there doing the same thing--

(0920) Ms. Dona Cadman : What about these women who don't have the education but have had the experience? Sometimes the experience is much more important than the education. You learn more that way, I think, having gone through it...experience is everything. Mrs. Sheila Nelson : Experience certainly does help you. For the social workers that I'm responsible for, you must have a college diploma as a minimum. Experience is certainly.... We look at equivalencies, but it's becoming more and more difficult to do this job; there is so much court involvement.

So the requirement is that you must have a diploma or a degree. Ms. Dona Cadman : All right. If you have this woman who has gone through it and is willing to go through an education program, would you help her? Is it your mandate to help her? Or is there another organization that would help her go through the steps and maybe help her with the money and help her with her children, if she has children? Mrs. Sheila Nelson : Well, she possibly could be eligible for a student loan-- Ms. Dona Cadman: Okay. Mrs. Sheila Nelson: --if that's what you're speaking about, but our organization does not....

We would be there to support her, but financially we would not be supporting that person through that process. There are other opportunities. Ms. Dona Cadman : Do all the organizations up here work together, or are you individual...? Is it that you're here, Sandra is there, and Lyda and Lorraine are over there? Do you work together? Do you join together? Do you communicate? Because working alone is harder than working together. You share your experiences and your education--just everything--and it's a stronger group, instead of working alone.... How does that work? Do you work alone?

The Chair : We only have 30 seconds, and Ms. Lacey had her hand up. Would you go ahead, Ms. Lacey? Mrs. Barbara Lacey : I know I'm the newcomer, but having adult services, mental health, and family counselling, I have to work with Lyda. I don't have a choice. Voices: Oh, oh! Mrs. Barbara Lacey: I have to work with Sheila. I don't have a choice. If you're asking about what it is that we have to bottle, well, we need to have good relationships and work together, because we're it. Ms. Dona Cadman: Okay. Mrs.

Barbara Lacey: There aren't other options, so we have to get over ourselves, work with each other, and negotiate. The Chair : Thank you very much. I'll now go to Madame Demers again. [ Translation ] Ms. Nicole Demers : Thank you, Madam Chair. The question my colleague Dona asked is very important. The day before yesterday, we met with a few young women and one man. He told us that aboriginal women were victims of the “buckskin ceiling”, rather than the glass ceiling.

These women cannot get beyond that ceiling because most of the time they are condemned to work at lower levels even if they have degrees that would allow them to go further. It is very important to point that out and to try to determine why that is. In my opinion, Lorraine, your organization can make great strides in solving that issue. You talked about shelters and first, second and third stage transition houses, where aboriginal women are taught various ways of taking themselves in hand in order to get out of this vicious cycle, homes where they can learn a trade or a profession.

Currently, there are shelters, or transition houses, but I presume that this is a first stage transition house. How long does that first stage last? [ English ] Ms. Lorraine Phaneuf : What we're really trying to do at this point is to stabilize the shelters, because if we don't have shelters, we have nothing. We don't have enough shelters.

I'll regress a bit. in order to offer training for aboriginal women and women of the territories we have just launched and finished a three-year project, which I actually presented to this committee maybe a year and a half ago, about how we work with marginalized women--that is, women who were in the shelter, women who were in a homeless shelter, women who were couch-surfing. They were brought into a three-year program to learn how to do non-traditional trades. What has happened is we've had a funding lapse and this project has come somewhat to a standstill.

When the government has given us the three years to work with marginalized women, those women are now in the system with us. We advocate for them. We have no staffing dollars, but we still have the women in the program and we lead them through. When they come with us they are surrounded with services. So if they need a place to stay or day care, or if there's any kind of barrier that would have prevented them from becoming successful, the project had dollars through HRSDC and INAC to follow through. We have had some great successes. We have had women who were in the shelters.

We have women who were couch-surfing who got jobs at DeBeers who are now in apprentice programs. The numbers may not have been huge, but in fact out of 30 women, five women are now in apprentice programs and are now working. Perhaps they're not working in trades, but one of them is a librarian in her community. It's very important that if we are going to help people, we have to surround them with the necessities for them to be successful. If it's just little bits and pieces, when you go to the next place there's a big wall there preventing them.

(0925) The Chair : Ms. Tucker. Ms. Sandra Tucker : Pauktuutit is very pleased that we've also developed an Inuit women and business program. Through the gracious funding of INAC it looks like this year we're going to be able to continue that training, as well as the establishment of an Inuit women's business network. From our perspective, we are assisting Inuit women in gaining the skills they need to become entrepreneurs to start their own businesses to gain those skills. The one thing I want to say is when you look at Inuit women as a whole you see a group of exceptional, strong, well-informed women.

Our current government has a very good example of that in Leona. We have Nellie Cournoyer. We have Mary Simon. We have Elisapee Sheutiapik. We have exceptional leaders and very, very, wise and brilliant women. It's a bragging right for us that they are the examples of how you can become a leader in your community and facilitate change. The Chair : Thank you. I'll now go to Mr. Bevington again for five minutes. Mr. Dennis Bevington : Thanks, Chair. Someone mentioned here that Yellowknife has one of the highest per capita incomes for families.

But Yellowknife also has one of the highest per capita expenditures for families. Throughout the north the cost of living is a problem that simply exacerbates everything else. When you get to the smaller communities, where unemployment rates are very high and yet the cost of living is considerably higher than here in Yellowknife, the impact of that on family relations has to be very severe. Of the base causes of family violence, in many cases we would see that in the south a lot of them would be economics. Does economics play the same role here in the north in terms of causes of family violence?

Do you see that as one of the prime movers? The Chair : Lyda. Ms. Lyda Fuller : I'm struggling with how to answer that. For me, the prime mover around the violence here is the colonization that happened and the oppression and trauma that have impacted whole communities. On top of that, other stressors that are in place certainly keep the pot stirred around things. And poverty has a huge impact on families. It's hard work to be poor. It's hard work to try to meet your ongoing needs. So it definitely has an impact. Once again, for me, it's housing, housing, housing, as the key driver.

We see so many situations with overcrowding. That leads to stress and things fall out of that--arguments. We have lots of requests, as a shelter, for women to come from Nunavut and from small communities here in the territory because they want to relocate to Yellowknife where there are more services and more housing, although certainly not enough housing. You see that migration. You see the pressure.

You see agencies and women themselves saying, “We feel like we have no options.” For me, the big driver is that huge cultural disruption that happened over a long period of time, and that still has an impact, and the housing situation.

(0930) The Chair : Ms. Lacey. Mrs. Barbara Lacey : And addictions. Absolutely, what Lyda is saying.... Part of coping with the trauma is addiction. There are both males and females in that population, of course, but if you look at who's on the street, you will see a lot of male aboriginals with addictions issues. We're looking at the integration of mental health and addictions services, which is being looked at across the country, but we're not there yet in Yellowknife, as far as being able to address the addictions issues in the way we need to. Addictions and family violence certainly are connected.

The Chair : You have three-quarters of a minute. Ms. Sandra Tucker : Really quickly, we also see the clash of the traditional ways of living and the modern ways of living, especially with the younger population. The older people are still looking at the community as a whole: everybody shares the wealth, everybody shares the resources.

We have a younger population that, like every young person, is very materialistic, which leads in a lot of cases to elder abuse, draining grandma and grandpa's cheques right at the beginning and using the threat, “I will commit suicide if you don't.” With the rates of suicide, nobody wants that hanging over their head. So there is a clash of traditional versus modern. The Chair : Thank you. We have the time to go into a three-minute round, a very tight round. If someone has already said something that you wanted to say, you can add something new and that will be fine.

But I want to hold this tightly so that we can get it done. I will go to Ms. Neville again. Hon. Anita Neville : Thank you, Madam Chair. We're here as part of the federal committee on the status of women, and my question to each of you, recognizing jurisdiction—and jurisdictional issues often get in the way—what would be your primary message or recommendation to us? Identify one thing that we, as federal politicians, can bring forward in this report or do for you. The Chair : Madam Tucker. Ms.

Sandra Tucker : More money for programming and projects on the ground, and getting federal moneys to the provinces and territories to make sure that resources are in each and every community the way they should be. The Chair: Ms. Fuller. Ms. Lyda Fuller : In addition to housing, I would say money for community development...how important it is, how critical it is. The distances even to travel to communities are so great, and women want support and assistance with that.

(0935) The Chair : Does anyone else want to respond to that question? Ms Lacey. Mrs. Barbara Lacey : I would say increased support for programming for both men's and women's shelters around the education, so the psycho-education piece for both men and women. The Chair : Ms. Phaneuf. Ms. Lorraine Phaneuf : I think it's important for the committee to consider that services need to be equitable and accessible to all the women, so even if you are in a remote location, you should still be safe and have services available to you. Hon. Anita Neville : Do I have any more time?

The Chair : Yes, we have about one and a half minutes. Hon. Anita Neville : Sandra, at the end just now, you raised a larger issue, the issue of elder abuse and the disagreement, I guess, between generations. How prevalent is that, and how is elder abuse manifested? Ms. Sandra Tucker : Actually, we're just currently undertaking some work to find out the rate of prevalence of elder abuse. An educated guess would be that it's exceptionally high in the communities. It's manifested in elders not having enough food to eat. Their basic needs are not being met.

I just came, actually, from Inuvik, and there was an elder, a 69-year-old woman, who was taken to the emergency shelter there because her son was physically abusing her because she wasn't able to give him more money. And this is something we hear consistently across the country. Again, it's not something that's often spoken about in the communities, but it's rampant. It's going to be the next epidemic. Hon. Anita Neville : Is it usually a woman that's abused? Ms. Sandra Tucker : No. Hon. Anita Neville : No, but it could be? Ms.

Sandra Tucker : It can be the woman or the man, whoever it is that has the income coming in. Typically, it's the older person whose name is on the lease and who has the most stable income coming in, so we're seeing it with both male and female elders. The numbers are rising, and more and more are going to shelters. The Chair : All right, thank you. Thanks, Anita. We go now to Dona Cadman. Ms. Dona Cadman : Lorraine, I know what this term means, but maybe some of my elder colleagues don't. Could you tell us what “couch surfing” is? Ms. Lorraine Phaneuf : Oh, sorry.

Because of the cold weather or just the nature of Yellowknifers, women and children who have no place to live are often taken in by relatives or friends, and they just stay there. They don't have beds. They don't really have a spot in the family, but they're allowed to stay there because they have nowhere else to go. Oftentimes, because of the overcrowding or however many social issues, they're moving from house to house with really no place to go, sometimes getting food where they can through the shelter systems, but really not having a home for themselves or their children. Ms. Dona Cadman : Thank you.

How large a problem is child apprehension? Is it a big problem up here? It seems to be a big problem every place we've talked. Is it big up here too? Any of you, please go ahead. Mrs. Sheila Nelson : Since I work in that area, I'll speak from my experience. It's definitely higher than we'd like it to be. Taking any child into care is totally against my belief. However, there are situations in which a parent is unable to provide for them at a given time, and we have to provide alternate arrangements for them.

It is very difficult to find foster homes, to find families that will take in children, so it's always a struggle for us. And as much as people think we take children without reason, we have to really prove a case to the courts. So it's not that we do that flippantly. There are a lot of children still living with families even though people might question us about why we're leaving those children there, but my experience--and I've been in this field for a very long time--is that you try to maintain that connection with family.

One of the things I've found living in the north as opposed to what I found when I lived in Ontario is that the children always know their family members. They're here, and they eventually go back to them when they reach the age of 16. So if we can do anything to maintain that relationship, that's definitely what we do. But, yes, there are situations in which addictions are involved and violence is involved, and we do have to remove children for their protection.

(0940) The Chair : Ms. Tucker. Ms. Sandra Tucker : Just speaking further on what Sheila was saying, one thing that we're noticing is that a lot of women are now not choosing the option of going to shelters because of fear of their children being apprehended. I want to bring to this committee's attention a situation I just became aware of. There is one shelter here in the Northwest Territories that provides double duty. They are an emergency foster placement/women's emergency shelter.

Can you imagine the trauma on a child who's been apprehended from his or her own home—usually, violence is somehow related to that—to live in the same facility where a woman may be coming in beaten, bruised, and bleeding? This particular shelter, and God bless those shelter directors, is a 50-year-old building. We shouldn't be in a situation where the resources are so limited that we have to put them together. A voice: It's wrong. The Chair : I'm going to go to Madame Demers again, so we'll give you some time to get your headpieces on for translation. [ Translation ] Ms.

Nicole Demers : Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I would like to ask you one last question. There are people from the media present here this morning. I would like to know what type of relationship you have with the media. When the time comes to expose discrimination, social problems and problems in the community, do you get media attention? Are your problems interesting enough to the media? Are they there for you or are they only present when the Standing Committee on the Status of Women visits you? What do you have to say, Lorraine? [ English ] Ms.

Lorraine Phaneuf : I think we're very media-rich in the north, as you know. [ Translation ] The media are everywhere, all the time. [ English ] They are everywhere. Even if we're having small events, the media really covers issues for women and family violence. That's been our experience. When we had our northern women in mining, oil and gas project , having come sometimes from different jurisdictions, funders were amazed at the amount of media coverage we got from our project. For us, the media has been quite rich. [ Translation ] Ms. Nicole Demers : And what do you say, Sandra? [ English ] Ms.

Sandra Tucker : We also have a very good relationship with the media. In the past, they've been great supporters of us. We would always like to see more media coverage. We drive our media contacts crazy with press releases and news releases, but we're doing it because we want to get things out into the forefront. One of the big challenges we've had is with the national newspapers. The local and regional newspapers have been phenomenal. CBC North and the radio have been phenomenal.

It's the big newspapers— The Globe and Mail , The Toronto Star , and the National Post —because we can send them information over and over, and it doesn't seem to catch at that national level. I don't know how we can change that, but it's something we really need to see some growth in, getting these issues into the national forefront, so they don't just stay as regional issues. We keep spinning our wheels. People need to know what's going on. I'm open to any suggestions from the committee on how we could encourage them to listen. [ Translation ] Ms.

Nicole Demers : In your opinion, how do you think you could share what you are doing here? Because you are doing extraordinary things, you are achieving extraordinary successes, as opposed to some other places, like Williams Lake or Prince Albert, for instance, where the situation is more desperate. These communities are experiencing tragic situations. According to you, how could you convey to others what you are doing here; how can you let them know how you are managing to achieve your objectives?

How could we share your way of doing things with them, so that these people are given hope that they will some day get out of their situation? [ English ] The Chair : A very short answer. Who would like to tackle that? Ms. Nelson. Mrs. Sheila Nelson : I just have a comment. You're really building up our self-esteem this morning. I am starting to feel wonderful. Wow, look out, we're out to advocate now. Honestly, I don't know. I oftentimes feel very isolated in the program I work within just because child protection is sometimes frowned upon.

I still try to get out there and do the best I can for the families that come to our attention. I find that in Yellowknife, and I also find this in Lutselk'e and Fort Resolution, if we want something, we ask for it, and we usually get people who want to work together on a project, if there's something. For instance, if I need some housing from our transitional housing here, I have built a relationship with Kate, and she will say, “I'll see what I can do for you”. It's really working one-on-one. You just have to build those relationships.

(0945) The Chair : Thank you. Mr. Bevington. Mr. Dennis Bevington : I concur with everyone's vision of the Northwest Territories. I do think that, although our problems are very large, and I don't disagree with that, there are some things that we do here very well, because we are a balanced society. We have great empowerment of aboriginal people throughout the Northwest Territories. We have built over many years good relationships that are really the driving point of our lives. They are the things that we all hold very dear. Those are things that are real strengths for the people of the Northwest Territories.

We have the challenge of creating a society that is unique in Canada, in that we will have strong aboriginal governments as well as strong public governments. That is something that I think drives all of our equations. Getting back to the economics of this, we have seen great economics in the Northwest Territories with the development of mining. We have chosen a pattern of taking people out of their communities for two weeks and then putting them back as being the pattern we're going to follow. Do you see that as having a positive or negative effect on family violence? The Chair : Ms. Tucker. Ms.

Sandra Tucker : It can have both. The development of the resources in the north brings in additional income. But what we are tending to see, especially in this area and also in Nunavut, is that when the husband or the breadwinner in the family has gone out to work in the mines or on the oil pipeline, he makes wonderful money, and coming home, he makes some pit stops along the way and that money kind of all disappears. He comes home and he's broke. The rent is not getting paid and there is no money for food.

That of course again exacerbates any situation related to domestic violence, because housing is now at risk, there is no food, and there are no basic services. I don't know how we are going to change that. We're dealing with people a lot of times who have had very limited income and now have access to a whole lot of money. When you get a whole lot of money in your hand, the urge is that you sometimes really want to spend it. We're also dealing with addictions issues, particularly alcoholism, and that money is being spent quickly.

We are hearing from our contacts in the north that most of the money that's being made is being spent before it ever gets back to the family unit. The Chair : Thank you very much. That ends this round, but before we end, we have a couple of minutes left. Without belabouring it, I want to remark on what my colleagues have said, which is that you are indeed a unique community, although I must say, in Nunavut we also found that same sense of uniqueness. I don't know if it's because you are territories, because you are smaller.... You're talking about colleagues you work with, Ms. Nelson, by their first names.

In British Columbia you have a hierarchy in every bureaucracy, with a deputy minister and five ADMs and six directors general, and by the time you get down to the field worker, that hierarchical system is a difficult one to deal with. I think that may be the secret of your success. Let's do away with hierarchical systems right away. That's important, and there are many best practices that we can learn from you and from Nunavut. When we were there, we heard that same thing. I want to talk about a couple of things. Dona talked about couch surfing, and actually it's not a phenomenon up here.

It's not because of the cold weather. Couch-surfing is a way for women to stay under the radar. It happens in Vancouver more than you would ever realize and in the cities; it keeps them under the radar. Children and family services don't know that they don't have a place to live. They stay under the radar and their children are not taken away from them. I wanted to talk a little bit about that. Ms. Lacey said something very important that touched me deeply. She said, “I really tried. I tried.

I was running around confused, and they still took my children.” At the heart of all this is the fragmentation of families, and children who are already traumatized by watching violence in the family, children who are already traumatized by one parent leaving the home, invariably the mother, and then to be wrested away from that mother is extraordinarily traumatic. You can see how, generation after generation...we know that 45% of children who live in abusive homes turn out to either become abusers or to have partnerships with abusers later on in life. So there is that intergenerational thing.

I need to ask this question, and it's a difficult question, Sheila. I'm not trying to say, you guys are nice because you don't have any options. I know that you seem to really get it and you seem to care. Ms. Lacey really moved me with her statement, “They still took my children.” In many places we went, one of the biggest fears of women reporting violence at all was that they have nowhere to go; there were no shelters for them, and in isolated communities they are just stuck.

As you said, they don't have money for a plane ticket to get down to wherever there are shelters, and the shelters are limited--30 days in some areas, but six days is really terrible. So really people just stay where they are and they continue to live with the violence. We've heard something really important, and I want to ask about this. Housing, of course, is extremely linked, but we've heard that another reason women will not leave the violent situation is that once they get out of the shelter they have such little money from social assistance with which to pay rent.... Nicole brought this up earlier.

We heard in certain areas that the foster parent can get $2,500 a month to look after three kids and the mother of those three kids gets about $600 to do the same work. I'm not asking anybody to say what's wrong with that system; it's obvious what's wrong with that. But I would like to find out what we can do to change it. Everyone is aware of it, and surely there is a built-in bias. I understand that women who have been victims of violence quite often aren't good parents because they themselves have been so beaten down, but surely there's a way we can intervene to find a way to give these women....

If we can't find housing for them, at least we can pay for market housing for them, appropriately, if we can do it for a foster parent. I'm specifically directing this to Sheila and Barbara first, and then I'd like to hear your opinion on it. Sheila, what can we do to stop that real unfairness and total tragedy from occurring?

(0950) Mrs. Sheila Nelson : I wish I had the answer for you. As hard as it may be for people to believe, apprehending a child from a woman who has left an abusive relationship is the last option we want. We put out a significant amount of money to assist families that are on a very limited income, and sometimes income support just doesn't pay enough. It's not uncommon for us to give out gift cards on a regular basis. The Chair : So you supplement...? Mrs. Sheila Nelson : Oh, supplement. As a matter of fact, I can tell you that on average we probably give out between $5,000 and $6,000 a month to supplement.

The Chair : From your department. Mrs. Sheila Nelson : It comes from our department. The Chair : This is unique again. It doesn't happen anywhere else but with your department here in Yellowknife. It doesn't happen elsewhere. Mrs. Sheila Nelson : The reason we do it is that I don't believe the child should be removed from a parent if they're able to look after the child. If they're short on money to pay.... Often we pay utility bills. Often we pay housing arrears so that a person can get back into the housing system and have rent geared to their income.

Like I said earlier, there is work we need to do between our departments, and I think that change has to come from above me. I certainly speak out about it, but the change has to come from higher up than my level. The Chair : But the supplement is an important piece. Did anyone want to tackle that a little bit? Ms. Lacey? Then we'll close on our questions.

(0955) Mrs. Barbara Lacey : I wanted to answer the question from more of an assistance perspective. I really do believe that the case management model is the model we have to put in place. It doesn't matter if you're a woman in family violence coming out of a family violence situation and trying to get yourself reorganized, or a mental health client, or a homeless client, I believe that having an advocate, having that support, that case manager, to help with the negotiation and navigating the system....

I came from methadone maintenance treatment in P.E.I., and we had to work with income support all the time because our clients were the injection drug users, and nobody likes them. To have a good relationship with income support was often the key, because that kept them in their housing. If I could keep them in their housing, maybe child and family services would then look at getting the children back in. My clients did not have the skills to negotiate any of that. Often, our women getting out of these situations don't have the skills to negotiate everything, as we found when we did this experience yesterday.

So I really believe in the case management model. That means more money. That means more funding and more positions. Lyda has some of this in her outreach team and the independent supported living program. We know how much good this does. Our individuals trying to negotiate a system need somebody with them. That would be my answer. The Chair : Thank you. That was very helpful. I want to thank all of you for coming and for sharing with us. We've learned a lot. It seems as if pennies are dropping. As we go everywhere, we're getting more pennies just clicking down.

This has been a very good session for us to listen to and to compare and contrast with other areas. Some of what we've heard has been heartbreaking, but you seem to have had a certain amount of success, as has Nunavut. I think maybe it's because you're territories and you're not as fragmented as all of the provinces. I think this is good. Thank you very much. I'm going to now suspend until the next session. (0955)

(0955) The Chair : I will now call the meeting to order. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), this Standing Committee on the Status of Women is studying violence against aboriginal women. You know that standing committees are made up of all four parties. It is by and large a non-partisan effort, because we are parliamentarians here and we all want to come together. Whatever we find and report will be presented to Parliament first, and then of course the government of the day will have to respond to the report and the recommendations within 90 days.

Given what we heard from the Sisters in Spirit reports, that there are over 580 missing and murdered aboriginal women around the country, there have been calls for a national inquiry. We know that this is an issue, with best intentions or not, that people have been trying to remedy for a long time with very little success. While most people tell us that this has been studied to death, we're not trying to study anything. We know the data. We know the statistics.

What we really want to do is talk with people on the ground and see if they can cut through all of this to tell us what the root causes are and tell us what is the nature and extent of the violence against aboriginal women. By nature, I mean different types of violence. As you well know, violence can be sexual, it can be physical, it can be emotional, it can be systemic. Racism is a form of violence. So we wanted to look at the nature and the extent of violence. We also wanted to look at the root causes, and I think we've been hearing now a repetitive measure of what the root causes are.

But we'd like to also, more than anything, listen to solutions you can offer us--solutions that are not the same old, same old, because the same old, same old has not been working. So we'd like to hear about creative solutions, innovative solutions, systemic resolutions, but we also want you to be as frank and honest with us as you possibly can. That having been said, I'm going to start the presentations. We have four groups represented here today. We will give you between five and seven minutes; seven is the upper limit.

If you can just check me out occasionally, I will give you a little signal as to whether or not you have a minute left or you should wind up; it doesn't mean stop immediately, but it means winding up within about 20 seconds. We will begin with the Native Women's Association of the Northwest Territories. The presenter is Therese Villeneuve, but she also has Ms. Thomas with her for support. Thank you. Ms. Villeneuve.

(1000) Ms. Therese Villeneuve (President, Native Women's Association of the Northwest Territories) : Mahsi cho for having me here. [ Witness speaks in Dene ] I would like to thank you for taking the time to visit Yellowknife and to find out first-hand what is occurring in the area of violence against aboriginal women in the Northwest Territories. As you probably already know, the incidence of violence is much higher in the Northwest Territories. Statistics indicate the incidence is seven times higher, and we know the actual incidence is probably much higher than that reported.

These statistics have not changed over the past few years, and the nature of assaults seems to be getting more serious in many cases, and by more serious we're talking about deaths of spouses. Women are sometimes being beaten up in their own homes. Sentencing has not reflected the serious nature of these assaults. As you can well imagine, the future does not look good in terms of reducing the incidents, considering the number of children who are witnessing these acts of violence. I will ask you to excuse me, because sometimes this becomes very emotional, especially for aboriginal women.

The Native Women's Association of the NWT was established and incorporated under the societies ordinance in 1978 as a non-profit organization. Headquarters are located in Yellowknife. We offer a victim services program, aboriginal human resources development program, and a full-time aboriginal adult training centre. We also have a contribution agreement with HRSDC to pilot a literacy and numeracy program specifically designed to reflect the needs of students throughout the Northwest Territories.

We get core funding from the Government of the Northwest Territories, and this provides us with an executive director, financial manager, and administrative assistant. NWA of the NWT also sponsor workshops and special events, such as Sisters in Spirit luncheons, judo programs for youth, etc. One of our main services in Yellowknife is directly linked to the topic we are discussing today. The mission of Yellowknife victims services is to offer compassionate support and system information referral to victims. The majority of our clients are aboriginal women; however, we also see men and non-aboriginal women.

We have one coordinator and one victims services worker. As well, we hire a trainer to train volunteers, as the after-hours work is done by volunteers. We provide 24-hour services that include court accompaniment and preparation, support through RCMP statements, victim impact statements, information about the criminal justice system, emotional support, crisis intervention, and referrals. Although we mainly see victims from Yellowknife, there is an increasing demand in communities that do not have victims service workers.

About 25% of the people victims services provides services to are aboriginal adult women who are victims of serious violent crimes. The demand for our programs at the training centre continues to grow. New funding from the GNWT as well as the federal government has allowed us to diversify our programming as well as focus on curriculum development. At this time there are approximately 15 students enrolled in our adult education and pre-employment. Our classes continue to focus on math, English, computers, employment skills, and life skills, including traditional activities. This is a unique program.

We service mostly women who have very low literacy and numeracy skills who would not be able to upgrade, as no other similar holistic programs are available for this population. Obtaining funding on a yearly basis is always problematic, and is getting even more so, as the funding for this population is getting harder to obtain. Federal money from INAC or other departments is just not available for a long-term commitment that is needed for this population. We believe that if the federal government is serious in reducing violence against aboriginal women it will invest in education and housing for at-risk women.

Our students are dedicated to making a difference in their lives, but they face many uphill battles, including addictions, homelessness, poverty, violence in their lives, and lack of child care services, as many of these women are single parents themselves. The best way to reduce violence against aboriginal women is to provide them with education. Other resources that are lacking include outreach workers and counsellors. The Government of the Northwest Territories does not see a need for funding these resources.

In terms of violence against aboriginal women, one of the things the federal government could do would be to change the on-reserve and off-reserve funding process. Another recommendation would be national awareness, with an education program to raise awareness, at local and national levels, of family abuse, sexual exploitation, and alcohol and drug abuse. You talked about the root causes. Well, one of-- The Chair: You have thirty seconds, please. Ms. Therese Villeneuve: Okay. I just want to focus on the root causes. As you know, many of us have suffered from the impact of residential schools in our lives.

Aboriginal people were not violent people in the past. The men did not abuse their wives, their families. We were brought up on the land. The women were very, very honoured. I think if we're going to go back to that, one of the programs that could be really supported is the on-the-land program. We can go back and renew all this honour that we were once born into, and used to, and lived, because our aboriginal culture, it's what we lived. This is not our aboriginal culture, the situation we are in right now.

(1010) The Chair : Thank you very much, Ms. Villeneuve. Now I will go to Lyda? Ms. Lyda Fuller : Yes. I'm here now-- The Chair: For the YWCA. Ms. Lyda Fuller: --for the YWCA, yes, but on behalf of our shelter for women fleeing violence, women and their children. I won't go through the statistics. They're listed here. It's very high in the north. I just want to say that most women in NWT communities face formidable barriers to accessing services and support to escape from violence. There are only five shelters in the NWT that serve 33 communities spread over a vast area.

Women often in the communities without shelters have to go a local social service worker to get their trip to a shelter paid for. And often this person can be related to the partner that the women is trying to escape. Violence starts early in their relationships and continues through child-bearing years. We see very young women with a number of children already who repeatedly come to our shelter. By the time they can really think about how they want to change that violence in their lives, they're tied down with child rearing and see no way out.

They are busy caring for their children, the housing options are limited, and there are really significant community sanctions for disclosure of abuse. That's often a barrier to seeking meaningful help. Women use the shelters as respite for periods of time, to regroup and go back. Elders use the shelter in this way too. We have seen women in their sixties and seventies, with multiple healed fractures, who get dumped out into snowbanks and come into the shelter. Women often don't think change is possible because the abuse is endemic. It's often what they have known and grown up with.

And women have sympathy for their partners, because their partners have been abused as well. When you look at the root causes around cultural disruption, and residential schools, everybody in the community is suffering. A lot of times women don't see the larger system as offering helpful support. They want to heal as a community. The women who come to us say that it's primarily physical and emotional abuse, but we see a wide range of all the types of abuse. We see women beaten severely who then miscarry while they're at the shelter. We see women who can hardly walk due to beatings.

We see women who end up leaving the shelter and are beaten to death. We see women who are held against their will and then physically abused over periods of time, who give notes to their children to take to school asking for help. We see women who jump out of vehicles in the liquor store parking lot and hop into taxicabs to come to the shelter. We see a lot of young women from Nunavut communities who access shelter services here in Yellowknife. As isolated as you can be in this territory, you can be even more so in Nunavut. Transportation is very costly, so often we are the cheapest alternative.

Resources in Nunavut are scarce. I'd like to make a real plea, on behalf of Nunavut, for better support to those shelters there, because they really do need that. Women often go back to bleak circumstances. We have women in from the small communities in Nunavut who might have a child with a disability. They're struggling. They've come to the shelter, and the partner has moved another woman into their home. So what do they go back to? These women have no economic independence and sometimes few alternatives because of that. Recently a woman come to us from a Nunavut community.

She and her five kids were put into cells in the Nunavut community because that was the safest place there until they could arrange for a flight to get her and the five kids to come out. Partners, however, it seems to us, have no trouble following the women to the communities with shelter and will often drive by the shelter to make sure that we see them, and that the women see them. That becomes a threat in itself. It's interesting, because when you talk to the communities and the referral agents, they say “She's coming for counselling.

This is her problem and she's coming for help.” We have been facilitating emergency protection orders. That's been really helpful except in the small communities without RCMP, because there is no way for that to be followed up. We have received phone calls from women who have obtained emergency protection orders and then they're left without food, baby food, and diapers. We take supplies out to them because they're economically tied to that partner and he's now gone from the home. Women who are at high risk often have few supports long-term.

We try to keep them safe in our transitional housing, but if that partner is known to the other tenants and they're scared of him—watch out. We had emergency protection orders granted and that has been helpful The last thing I want to end on is the work we're doing with the other women's groups in the eleven small communities without RCMP, which I think is a key to what we want to do. Communities need community healing and community development.

(1015) The Chair : I'm going to give you an extra minute to quickly expand on what you just said. Ms. Lyda Fuller : One of the key pieces is around community development. Healing and community development are inseparable. You need the whole community to heal and come together to address some of these issues. Healing and community development are not on the radar for funding. It's very necessary. It needs to happen and there are few resources to help that.

The women in the eleven small communities have been very thankful that we've managed to get some pots of money to look at working with those women and working within the broader context of that community. The women are very savvy. They say, “We don't want the community to be upset that you're coming in to help us, so let's have a community feast. Let's bring in some resources. We want to do this, but let's share those resources with the school.” It's really a key issue. The Chair : Thank you very much. I'm going to go to Arlene Hache. We're coming to visit your place a little later on, Arlene.

Thank you very much. Arlene is from the Yellowknife Women's Society, the Centre for Northern Families. You have a few minutes. Please go ahead. Ms. Arlene Hache (Executive Director, Centre for Northern Families, Yellowknife Women's Society) : Thank you. The stew with bannock is on. We're happy that you're all coming and everyone is invited. I wanted to thank you for opening the table so that I could present, even though I wasn't scheduled.

It's really critical for our services, because according to how the Government of the Northwest Territories defines things, women who stay at our shelter are not considered to be battered women or women living in or fleeing violence, even though they all do. Our shelter is categorized as a homeless shelter, and our funding is one-third of what you would find in at least some shelters for battered women. Part of what I hope to do is talk about the work we do, why we're important, and how we take sort of a different approach.

Part of it is really to talk about the systemic barriers we find as an agency that serves marginalized women and how we could improve those. The Centre for Northern Families has been in existence for 20 years. I came here when I was 18 years old. I hitchhiked up from a farm, and I was fleeing family violence and sexual abuse. I came to this community, and I hung out with the girls and the women from N'dilo and Dettah and the girls at Akaitcho Hall, and I found a real family of women whose experience was similar to mine.

They opened their arms to embrace my challenges as I kind of rooted around in the community and tried to re-establish myself emotionally, physically, and in every way to become a contributor to the community that I ended up moving to. Over the years the Centre for Northern Families was born out of the fact that we were just women in trouble trying to help each other.

It began with women whose children had been apprehended at child welfare, women who didn't even know what was being presented to them in English, women who didn't speak English, and who were losing their children to a system they really didn't understand. The Centre for Northern Families is really rooted in experience. Some people were talking earlier about mentorship and how important that is, and how important it is that you look at lived experience as a real benefit when you are providing services to the women who are escaping violence.

The Centre for Northern Families does give priority to hiring and training aboriginal and Inuit women. We do have aboriginal women in management and leadership roles within our agency. We meet with chiefs in the communities. In fact I just came back last week from a meeting with a chief in a small community who was very supportive, very kind, and very funny. At the end of the visit he said “I can't sit here talking about women all day”, so that was the end of our conversation. I said I would let him go, and he could talk about men after I left.

Northern people in Nunavut and in the NWT certainly generally have heard of the Centre for Northern Families, and that recognition resulted in our work being acknowledged through the Order of Canada. More importantly, we get calls from people all across the territories and Nunavut thanking us when we really put our neck on the line to step up and speak out against the violence we find being perpetrated against northerners generally and against women in particular.

I wanted to focus on the fact that we find that colonization is the root of the situation in which we find ourselves today, but part of the escalation in violence against women, from my perspective, is the fact that there is ongoing oppression. Residential schools have not ended. That method has not gone away. It hasn't disappeared, and it has not ended.

It has transformed itself into the foster care system and into other oppressive kinds of systems, like income support, like the correctional centre, and all of the systems that take such a European approach, something that is really foreign to how northern people do things. I am reminded of a study that was done in a region of the Northwest Territories that showed that four out of five girls had been sexually abused by the time they were 18, and three out of five boys had been sexually abused by the time they were 18. That study was done a long time ago.

I just wanted to highlight the fact that we have two challenges. We have lots of challenges, but I want to address two specific challenges today. One is racialized violence, which we find very prevalent in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut.

(1020) The other challenge is the fact that it is gender violence, not family violence. I find that we're not permitted in the Northwest Territories to talk about anything but family violence. From my perspective, that's because people want to put that out there as being a family problem, not a societal or a systemic problem. The other thing I wanted to talk about was that this means, going back to what Lyda talked about, that there is a real sort of angst in the community, in that everybody is in trouble, not just women. How do you deal with the fact that everybody is in trouble?

Part of what I wanted to highlight is that those systemic responses that take such a European approach are very unfamiliar and foreign to people. It's very discriminatory and very punitive. I'll just let you know that in the child welfare system in the Northwest Territories, 97% of the children who have been apprehended are aboriginal. That is an astounding statistic when you look at the fact that across Canada it's 50%--already, people would say, too high for the support that's supposed to be out there for families. Do I have to wrap it up?

(1025) The Chair : Yes, please. Ms. Arlene Hache : I have solutions. Do I have two minutes for solutions? The Chair : No, you don't have two minutes, but I am sure one of our colleagues will be pleased to ask you for your solutions in the question and answer session. Thank you very much. I would now like to go to Sandra Lockhart, who is chair of the Public Service Alliance of Canada's aboriginal peoples committee. Ms. Sandra Lockhart (Chair, PSAC, Aboriginal Peoples Committee, As an Individual) : Hi there. I'm just nervous. It's an amazing thing, eh?

I want to start by saying that I'm the daughter of John and Mary Head from Mistawasis First Nation. I'm a Dakota Cree woman originally born into Treaty 6. I exercised my nationhood and mobility right and transfered to Lutselk'e First Nation when I married my husband, who is Denis Sikoulin. I would also like to acknowledge the teachings of my elders--and it will help me too. They say that when I go to places like that, I should make it very clear that I don't talk for all aboriginal people. Also, take a moment to pray, because I have ancestors behind me who live in me, and I'm hopefully speaking for the future.

I want to cry. I need to settle down. I'm going to take a minute to do that. I hope this is not offensive to anyone. [ Witness speaks in Cree ] I'm asking that you come and speak with me and help me today as my grandfather and my helper. Creator, I'm thanking you again for giving me life and being able to share whatever it is you're guiding me to do. Forgive me if I speak wrongly and offend people. As the chair of the NWT aboriginal peoples committee, it's very important that we were formed.

In 1994 the Public Service Alliance of Canada, the union, began to recognize that aboriginal people were not being acknowledged as aboriginal people in Canada. For the union to be as progressive as we are, we needed to have a policy paper that would speak to that. I want to read a couple of phrases and I want to talk a little bit about our community in the north, because we're very involved with social justice. I also want to say that I went through the whole residential school, and I am one of the people who aren't acknowledged. The government decided, no, your experience doesn't exist for us.

I'm also a foster parent and a community member. The 1994 policy says that the Public Service Alliance “supports the right of aboriginal peoples to self-determination, encourages all governments in Canada to fulfill their historic treaty obligations...”--and I'll just insert something here. I think that's very important, because I think a lot of Canadians have forgotten that they're treaty people too. I don't think our schools or our governments are educating us: if you're Canadian, you also are treaty, because those treaties weren't made in isolation just with us.

They were made on behalf of Canadians and Canada. It's just that as aboriginal people today we want to benefit from that treaty as well as Canadians have done. In the alliance, we want to encourage all governments in Canada to fulfill their historic treaty obligations, and we urge the timely and just settlement of all land claims. The alliance believes that aboriginal people have been historically disadvantaged, both in society and the workplace, and supports mechanisms that re-addresses this disadvantage. Aboriginal peoples have the right to employment in the professions they wish to pursue.

The alliance believes that employment equity initiatives are fully justified and necessary mechanisms to ensure that aboriginal peoples are provided the opportunity to pursue their chosen careers. The alliance will work to ensure that our union itself is fully accessible to all aboriginal members and that it thoroughly represents the interests of those members. In the north here, in the NWT, we formed a committee. We have several aims and objectives, but there is one that speaks loudest to me. We work with other organizations, so we do partner. We believe in partnership, because it's very cultural.

We don't talk about families or individuals like they're isolated; we talk about nationhood and we talk about community. It's real, and we still try to live that way, and when we come up against policies, it hits at the core of who we are. So when my sister here talks about policies that are still hitting us, it's very, very true. I know that within PSAC we're going to be addressing what some of systemic policies are that are still there for assimilation and are killing us culturally. We're going to be reviewing that. We want to support. Our committee works with supporting aboriginal peoples.

It's not just in the workplace. It's not having this part at work, this part at home, and this

part in society; it's your full life. It's to support aboriginal peoples in their struggle for full access to all human rights and the fundamental freedoms of their right to preserve and strengthen their own political, economic, and legal traditions and institutions. We want to be active in our own country. This is our homeland. It's not like we can go back to some other place. This is it. We want what governments have been talking about and what service providers talk about with partnerships. We don't want it to be lip service anymore. We want to be at the table.

In order to do that, I think what has to be acknowledged first is that as an aboriginal woman—I'll speak for myself now—I was born into systemic racism. It was there, and it's still there, so when I hear a bunch of things that my sisters have said--and I will address them because I know I have a short period of time.... There are still a lot of systemic services that benefit service providers, which aboriginal people then become dependent on. When we become dependent, what do we lose? We lose our autonomy, and then governments and service providers get to say, “But we're doing it for your own good”.

Or if they want to open up something like child-family circles or something, where we can do something in the community, it's all under their cultural frameworks. They're not acknowledging.... Like our president of NWT, Terry Villeneuve, said, we have wellness practices, and those need to be recognized just as much as some of the social services or legal traditions, and they must start becoming mandatory, because they work for us. Also, we must have ethical funding. We'll start getting funding like Sisters in Spirit. It works great, right? The government grabbed it, ran away, took it away and called it their own.

Yet there is more work that needs to be done. I'd love to talk more on this.

(1035) The Chair : Thank you. You'll get that opportunity during the question and answer segments, Sandra. Now we will move into questions and answers. The first segment is seven minutes for questions and for answers. I will have to be very strict with you, because that stew and bannock is waiting, right? We have to leave here at 12. We have timeframes that we're working in when moving from place to place. Ms. Neville, for the Liberals. Hon. Anita Neville : Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thanks to all of you for appearing.

I have so many questions and so little time, but I'm first up, Arlene, so would you like to make your recommendations that you didn't have time to do? Ms. Arlene Hache: Yes, I didn't have time. Hon. Anita Neville: But can you do it quickly? I have a lot of other questions. Ms. Arlene Hache : I'll make it short. One is that I think there needs to be funding for family support services, because addressing violence is not all about shelters and not all about the court.

The other one is that down south the bands have band reps to represent children in court, because they're band members and they have a stake in what happens. In the north, that doesn't exist. There is no representative who goes to court to say, “We have a stake in what happens”. The other thing that I think we need is federally established standards--that has been lost over the years--along with a gender analysis. I think it's critical that funding is available for aboriginal and Inuit women to have a voice, because it is often silence by collaborations.

Collaborations are great unless you have to toe the party line. You guys know better than anyone else how disempowering that can be—not always, but it can be. There were only two other things that I had thought about. One was having equalized financial support. In Yellowknife, for example, parents who have to feed their children get $4.50 a day to feed them. Foster parents get $25 a day—that's minimum—and I think inmates get more than parents are getting to feed their children.

So we need a real federal effort around equalizing or some rationale around why children, who are the most important, would get different benefits depending on where they're sitting. The final thing that I think would make a massive difference is to make sure that we have trauma-informed programs that are culturally relevant. Fr