EVIDENCE

Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans NUMBER 001 1st SESSION 44th PARLIAMENT Tuesday, December 14, 2021 Le mardi 14 décembre 2021 Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans CANADA [Recorded by Electronic Apparatus] EVIDENCE December 14, 2021 Committee NUMBER 001 NUMBER 001 NUMÉRO 001 01 14 12 2021 2021/12/14 11:05:00 House Of Commons Comité permanent des pêches et des océans Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans FOPO Chair Mr. Ken McDonald 1 44

(1105) [ English ]

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Tina Miller) :

Good morning, honourable members. I'm wondering if we could quickly do a check to ensure that everyone's able to use the

interpretation function, because we'll be switching to speaking in French as well at this meeting. [ Translation ] I am now speaking to you in French. Can you all hear the English

interpretation? You're letting me know that it's working. Thank you. [ English ] It looks like we're good. I see a quorum. I must inform members that the clerk of the committee can only receive motions for the election of chair. The clerk cannot receive other types of motions, cannot entertain points of order nor participate in debate.

[ Translation ]

Mr. Serge Cormier (Acadie—Bathurst, Lib.) :

Excuse me, Madam Clerk, I can't see the other committee members in the room. I only see myself on the screen. Is that how it should be?

The Clerk :

Give me a minute, I will check into that. I'll be right back, Mr. Cormier. [ English ] Can we do a room view? We'll change the shot. Okay.

[ Translation ]

Mr. Serge Cormier :

Am I the only one attending the meeting virtually, Madam Clerk?

The Clerk :

Yes. I'd like to inform all committee members that Mr. Cormier is joining us via the Zoom app this morning. Can you see us now, Mr. Cormier?

Mr. Serge Cormier :

Yes, I can see all my colleagues in the room. Thank you.

The Clerk :

Perfect. Let's go back to electing the Chair. [ English ] I am ready to receive motions for the election of the chair. Mr. Hanley.

Mr. Brendan Hanley (Yukon, Lib.) :

Good morning. I would like to nominate MP Ken McDonald, please.

The Clerk :

Thank you. It has been moved by Mr. Hanley that Mr. McDonald be elected as chair of the committee. Are there any further motions? Pursuant to the House order of Nov 25, all questions shall be decided by a recorded vote except those decided unanimously or on division. (Motion agreed to)

The Clerk: I declare the motion carried, and Mr. McDonald duly elected chair of the committee.

Some hon. members: Hear, hear!

The Clerk: I invite Mr. McDonald to take the chair.

(1110) The Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)) :

Thank you everyone for that vote of confidence in me as chair. It's great to be back and to see some new members and some recycled ones, I guess, or those who have been here for a while. To the new members, I say, lean on the people with experience a little bit starting off, and they won't guide you wrong. They'll guide you in the right direction, and you'll get up to speed pretty quickly. Don't sweat it. Don't panic, and we'll try to get through this together, no matter where we are or what we're doing. I think we have some routine motions we have to go through.

It's my understanding there will be a vice-chair from the Conservative party, and a vice-chair from the Bloc. I'll ask the clerk to take care of the election of the vice-chairs.

The Clerk :

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the first vice-chair must be a member of the official opposition. I am now prepared to receive motions for the first vice-chair. Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Mel Arnold (North Okanagan—Shuswap, CPC) :

I would like to nominate MP Rick Perkins as first vice-chair.

The Clerk :

Thank you. It has been moved by Mr. Arnold that Mr. Perkins be elected as first vice-chair of the committee. Are there any further motions? Is it the consent of the committee to adopt the motion?

Some hon. members: Hear, hear!

The Clerk: Thank you. I declare the motion carried and Mr. Perkins duly elected first vice-chair of the committee. [ Translation ] Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the second vice-chair must be a member of an opposition party other than the official opposition. I am now prepared to receive motions for the second vice-chair. Mr. Cormier, you have the floor.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

Madam Clerk, I'd like to nominate Mrs. Caroline Desbiens.

The Clerk :

Thank you, Mr. Cormier. It has been moved by Mr. Cormier that Mrs. Desbiens be elected as second vice-chair of the committee. (Motion agreed to)

The Clerk: I declare the motion carried and Mrs. Desbiens duly elected as second vice-chair of the committee.

[ English ]

The Chair :

Thank you, Madam Clerk, and congratulations to our vice-chairs on a well-fought election. Welcome to meeting number one of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. Regarding the speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether participating virtually or in person.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind all participants to this meeting that screen shots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Given the ongoing pandemic situation, in light of the recommendation from public health authorities, as well as the directives of the Board of Internal Economy on October 19 to remain healthy and safe, the following is recommended for all those attending the meeting in person. Anyone with symptoms should participate via Zoom and not attend the meeting in person.

Everyone must maintain a two-metre physical distance, whether seated or standing. Everyone must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is recommended in the strongest possible terms that members wear their mask at all times, including when seated. Non-medical masks provide better clarity over the cloth masks and are available in the room. Everyone present must maintain proper hand hygiene by using the hand sanitizer at the room entrance. Committee rooms are cleaned before and after each meeting.

To maintain this, everyone is encouraged to clean surfaces such as the desk, chair and microphone with the provided disinfectant wipes when vacating or taking a seat. As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting, and I thank members in advance for their co-operation. I would now suggest that as to the next order of business the committee proceed to considering our routine motions. In preparation for this, the committee clerk has circulated a list of routine motions that the committee adopted in the last parliamentary session.

The committee clerk can also answer any questions about the routine motions that anyone may have. Ms. Barron.

(1115) Ms. Lisa Marie Barron (Nanaimo—Ladysmith, NDP) :

Thank you and congratulations, Mr. Chair. I wanted to quickly take a moment to point out that I put forward a couple of routine motions, and was wondering when a good time might be for me to do that.

The Chair :

That's normally towards the end of the meeting, and just as a reminder, of course, motions have to be available in both official languages and be circulated to members as well.

The Chair :

We will entertain motion as we go to the routine motions. Mr. Hardie.

Mr. Ken Hardie (Fleetwood—Port Kells, Lib.) :

Mr. Chair, I'll move the motion on analyst services. Are we going to do these one at a time, or shall we just do them as a block?

The Chair :

I think we have to do them one at a time.

Mr. Ken Hardie :

All right, then I move that we engage analyst services as described in the routine motions.

The Chair :

It's moved by Mr. Hardie, seconded by Mr. Perkins. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Next Mr. Chair, I'll move the

section on the subcommittee on agenda and procedure.

The Chair :

Could the analyst come up, please?

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Have we dealt with the subcommittee on agenda and procedure?

The Chair :

No. It's moved by you.

(1120) Mr. Ken Hardie :

Moved by me.

The Chair :

It's seconded by Mr. Perkins. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Next Mr. Chair, I'd move the agenda item on meeting without a quorum.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

The next routine motion is the time for opening remarks and questioning of witnesses, with the

schedule as noted. I move this.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

The next motion would concern working meals, and given that our

schedule takes us over lunch, this is probably important, so we should pay attention to this one.

The Chair :

Did you skip one, Mr. Hardie?

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Oh, I must has skipped one. Pardon me. Yes, there was a heading on document distribution.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

The Chair: Now you can get to your lunch one.

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Yes, I move the provision on working meals.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Next is the provision on travel, accommodation and living expenses of witnesses. I think it's a fond hope that travel and visits to interesting parts of Canada would be part of what would we would be able to look forward to at committee this time.

The Chair :

I couldn't agree more. It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

The next provision deals with support for members for in camera meetings and access to in camera meetings; so moved.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Next I'll move the provision for transcripts of in camera meetings.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

I move the next provision on orders of reference from the House respecting bills.

The Chair :

Are you skipping the notice of motion?

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Yes, the rules with respect to the notice of motion are so moved.

The Chair :

The motion is moved by Mr. Hardie. (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

I now move the provision for orders of reference from the House respecting bills.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. I hear no discussion. All those in favour? (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

We experienced this in the last Parliament as the COVID measures were stepped up—this is an important one. I move the provision for technical tests for witnesses.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. I hear no discussion. All those in favour? (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Finally, truly, I move the provision for linguistic review.

The Chair :

It is so moved by Mr. Hardie. Hearing no discussion, all those in favour? (Motion agreed to [ See Minutes of Proceedings ])

The Chair: That looks after our routine motions. For any motions anybody has to move, as long as they have been provided as earlier stated, this would be the time.

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Thank you, Chair. I have the motions available in both French and English and provided to the clerk for distribution. Because this is my first committee meeting, just to clarify, would you like me to read the motion and provide its rationale, or just read the motion and leave it with you then?

The Chair :

Read the motion first.

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Thank you. This is the first motion.

That the committee may meet in camera only for the following purposes: (

a) to consider a draft report; (

b) to attend briefings concerning national security; (

c) to consider lists of witnesses; (

d) for any other reason with the unanimous consent of the committee;

That all votes taken in camera, with the exception of votes regarding the consideration of draft reports, be recorded in the Minutes of Proceedings, including how each member voted when recorded votes are requested.

(1125) The Chair :

I'll just give a second for everyone to get their copy.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

Mr. Chair, are you going to circulate the motion via email also?

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Yes.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

I'm just waiting for it.

The Chair :

We'll have it to you in a second.

[ Translation ]

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

If it's easier, I can speak French too.

[ English ]

Mr. Serge Cormier :

It's just that I want to read it. Usually I think the clerk also sends them by email to those who are attending virtually. Mr. Chair, you never looked so good with my name right behind you, with the sign.

The Chair :

It's just so that you wouldn't feel missed. I was just conferring with the clerk for a second. Everybody has heard the terms of the motion and the motions have been circulated to everybody. Mr. Cormier, have you received yours?

Mr. Serge Cormier :

No. I'm just checking and refreshing my page. I just got it.

The Chair :

Do you want to have a quick look at it for a second?

Mr. Serge Cormier :

Yes, please. Okay. That's good.

The Chair :

Mr. Hanley.

Mr. Brendan Hanley :

Mr. Chair, I wonder if we could take a five-minute recess to be able to discuss this.

The Chair :

We can, I guess. We will recess for a couple of minutes just to allow members to confer with each other.

(1125) (1130) The Chair :

We're back. Everybody has had a chance to discuss it. I don't know if anybody has any questions for Ms. Barron on the motion, or any discussion. Ms. Barron.

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Thank you. I just wanted to, if I could, add a little bit of rationale for the motion. Putting this motion forward, I'm sure everyone here can agree that clarity and consistency from the outset are important, and that's what this motion is attempting to do—setting some parameters around when and what it would look like for us to go into in camera, and making sure that we're all on the same page and working collaboratively around these decisions moving forward.

The Chair :

Thank you. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, we will call the vote. (Motion negatived)

The Chair: Do you have another?

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

I do. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to everyone for allowing me to bring this forward. The second motion, which is being distributed right now and, I believe, has been emailed already in both French and English reads as follows:

That each party represented on the committee be entitled to select one witness per one-hour witness panel and two witnesses per two-hour witness panel.

The Chair :

We will wait for the motion to be distributed to everybody and make sure Mr. Cormier has received his as well.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

I didn't receive it, Mr. Chair, but this one is a little bit less complex, so I heard what my colleague said.

The Chair :

We have heard the motion. Is there any discussion? Ms. Barron.

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Thank you. I believe they were sent in the same email. I have some rationale behind why we're bringing this motion forward and why I'm bringing it forward today. It is important to hear from diverse groups and to ensure that we have representations and that we're really digging into the topic at hand and understanding what it is that we are attempting to understand. Providing witnesses who are representative to the parties would provide a more in-depth opportunity for witnesses and for us to learn from these witnesses. Thank you.

The Chair :

Is there any further discussion? (Motion negatived)

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Thank you.

The Chair :

Thank you. Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Rick Perkins (South Shore—St. Margarets, CPC) :

Mr. Chair, I have a number of notice of motions I would like to propose. I would like to move the following notice of motion:

That the committee request that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard appear before the committee for a two-hour meeting in the first week of February 2022.

The next one is:

That the following reports of this committee in the 2nd Session of the 43rd Parliament be adopted as reports in this session: Report 1, Striped Bass in the Southern Gulf of St. Lawrence and Miramichi River: Striking a Delicate Balance; Report 4, Implementation of the Mi'kmaw and Maliseet Treaty Right to Fish in Pursuit of a Moderate Livelihood; and that the Chair present these reports to the House.

The next one is:

That the following report of this committee in the 2nd Session of the 43rd Parliament be adopted as a report in this session: Report 2, Aquatic Invasive Species: A National Priority; that the Chair present the reports to the House; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109—

(1135) Mr. Serge Cormier :

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I thought we had to deal with motions one at a time and not all together. Maybe I'm wrong here.

The Chair :

Mr. Cormier, it's a notice of motion. It's not actually the motion itself being put forward. Mr. Perkins is just giving notice that he will be moving those motions in the future.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

Okay, that's perfect. My bad. Thank you.

Mr. Rick Perkins :

Should I start the last one over?

A voice: Yes, please.

Mr. Rick Perkins:

That the following report of this committee in the 2nd Session of the 43rd Parliament be adopted as a report in this session: Report 2, Aquatic Invasive Species: A National Priority; that the Chair present the report to the House; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to this report.

The next one is: That the Committee undertake a study examining systems and requirements pertaining to at sea safety of commercial harvesters including Transport Canada regulations related to vessel design, safety requirements and seaworthiness; and examining the federal commercial training courses and licensing requirements of mariners before going to sea, and upgrading of skills as required; and examining the Canadian Coast Guard search and rescue capabilities and response rates.

That the committee allot no fewer than eight two-hour meetings to receive said testimony. That the committee also accept written briefs from individuals or organizations who wish to submit input. That the committee submit its findings with recommendations in a report to the House.

Mr. Ken McDonald :

Mr. Hardie, you had your hand up?

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Yes, Mr. Chair, I also have a notice of motion whenever the time is right for that.

Mr. Ken McDonald :

Okay, thank you. Mr. Zimmer.

Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC) :

I have a notice of motion as well, Mr. Chair.

The Chair :

Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Mel Arnold :

I have a notice of motion as well. There are lots of notices.

The Chair :

Mr. Small.

Mr. Clifford Small (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, CPC) :

I have a notice of motion as well.

The Chair :

Okay. Madame Desbiens.

[ Translation ]

Mrs. Caroline Desbiens (Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix, BQ) :

We worked hard and I think we were looking forward to being here.

[ English ]

The Chair :

I'm not getting

interpretation.

[ Translation ]

Mrs. Caroline Desbiens :

We have two motions to bring forward to the committee, Mr. Chair. We worked hard and we were looking forward to being here.

[ English ]

The Chair :

Please continue, Mr. Perkins—

Mr. Rick Perkins :

I'm done.

The Chair :

You're done?

Mr. Bob Zimmer :

It's Mr. Hardie and then me, I think.

Mr. Ken McDonald :

Mr. Perkins has given his notices of motion. Mr. Hardie, go ahead, please.

Mr. Ken Hardie :

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the fifth report by this committee in the last Parliament, “Pacific Salmon: Ensuring the Long-Term Health of Wild Populations and Associated Fisheries”, recommendation number four stated:

That the Government of Canada, the Province of British Columbia and, where appropriate, First Nation communities review the state of flood control/mitigation systems along the lower Fraser River and their impact on wild salmon, and co-develop a program to update pumping stations and other components, as necessary, to remove risks to wild salmon runs.

There's a great deal of work under way in British Columbia right now to recover from the floods, and I would like to move that we commit to what would be probably just a short study, focusing on the opportunity we have to address those risks to wild salmon as we recover from the floods and rebuild the flood-control infrastructure in the lower Fraser Valley. I would move that we dedicate no more than three meetings, with a report to go to Parliament.

Mr. Ken McDonald :

Okay, but this is a notice of motion, right?

Mr. Ken Hardie :

It's a notice of motion, yes.

Mr. Ken McDonald :

Thank you. Mr. Zimmer.

Mr. Bob Zimmer :

Thank you, Chair, and once again congratulations. It's good to see you in person. It's been virtually for so many months. It's good to be back, isn't it? This is my notice of motion: That the committee undertake a study to examine the scope and effects of illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing (IUU) on Canada's fisheries resources and the degradation of those resources by illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing;

That the committee receive witness testimony from the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, the Minister of National Defence, officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, the Department of National Defence, and Canadians impacted by IUU fishing;

That the committee allot no fewer than eight two-hour meetings to receive said testimony;

That the committee also accept written briefs from individuals or organizations who wish to submit input; and

That the committee submit its findings with recommendations in a report to the House.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

(1140) Mr. Ken McDonald :

Thank you, Mr. Zimmer. Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Mel Arnold :

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Congratulations on your chairmanship of the committee. It has been good serving with you on this committee for the past almost six years now. We've done some good work, and I look forward to completing some further good work in this next session. I have two notices of motions that I'd like to present today. The first is:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of at least two (2) meetings to understand the impact of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' re-interpretation of the Fisheries Act regulations affecting frozen-at-sea spot prawns; That the committee call witnesses including senior departmental officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and interested stakeholder groups to testify; That the committee adopt testimony received by the committee in its examination of this matter in the 2nd Session of the 43rd Parliament as evidence for the study; That the committee adopt the June 21, 2021 letter sent by the committee to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans as evidence for this study; and That the committee report its conclusions and recommendations to the House.

The second notice of motion is:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of at least six (6) meetings to examine how the Department of Fisheries and Oceans develops scientific conclusions including advice that it provides to the minister and how the minister applies scientific advice to ministerial decisions; That the committee call witnesses including the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, senior department officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and persons who have directly contributed to the department's science and science processes to testify; and, That the committee report its conclusions and recommendations to the House.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair :

Thank you, Mr. Arnold. I'll now go to Mr. Small, but first I'll say that I'm glad to see another Newfoundlander and Labradorian here on the committee.

Some hon. members: Hear, hear!

The Chair: It was beginning to feel a bit lonely around the table.

Mr. Clifford Small :

We also have an ex-pat, if I may say that. Are we allowed to say that here? Ms. Barron has roots in St. John's.

The Chair :

Yes, we had a discussion yesterday.

Mr. Clifford Small :

Right on. Well, it's all out in the open now.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

The Chair :

Cabot Street, I believe, was in the discussion. Yes, when you're ready, Mr. Small.

Mr. Clifford Small :

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and congratulations on being elected chair. Mr. Chair, I move:

That the committee undertake a comprehensive study of pinnipeds that would examine the ecosystem impacts of pinniped overpopulation in the waters of Quebec, Eastern and Western Canada, international experience in pinniped stock management, the domestic and international market potential for various pinniped products, social acceptability, and the sociocultural importance of developing active management of predation for coastal and First Nations communities with access to the resource; That the committee invite witness appearances including Indigenous organizations, scientific experts, DFO officials and experts and officials from countries such as Scotland, Norway and Iceland that have conserved and rebuilt fish stocks by balancing pinniped populations; That the committee allot no fewer than eight two-hour meetings to receive said testimony; That the committee also accept written briefs from individuals or organizations who wish to submit input; and That the committee submit its findings with recommendations in a report to the House.

Thank you.

The Chair :

Yes, Mr. Cormier.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

Mr. Chair, just for clarification, is this a notice of motion?

(1145) Mr. Clifford Small :

Yes, this is a notice of motion.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

I ask because you said “I move”. Okay, this is just notice.

Mr. Clifford Small :

I'm sorry. I'm just a rookie. I didn't know about two-line passing.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Serge Cormier :

No worries, and welcome to the committee, Mr. Small. Mr. McDonald will feel less lonely with you around the table.

The Chair :

It was my understanding, Mr. Cormier, that when everyone put their hand up to be recognized, it was to give a notice of motion. I heard it read as a motion as well, but I knew it was a notice of motion. That's why we continued.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

I'll let you do your job. Thank you.

The Chair :

I appreciate it. Thanks, Serge. Now we have Madame Desbiens.

[ Translation ]

Mrs. Caroline Desbiens :

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on your appointment today. I am an Isle‑aux‑Coudres girl from a family of sailors and captains who fished for cod, smelt, flounder and sturgeon in the St. Lawrence. So it's truly a pleasure for me to be with you. I am new to the committee. We also have some motions to introduce to you. I will read the first motion to you now.

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study on the labelling of seafood products and that it consider the impact of the consultations undertaken on that topic by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency; that the Committee invite the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, the Minister of Health and experts to appear regarding this issue; that the Committee hold at least four meetings to do so; and that the Committee report its findings and recommendations to the House.

The second motion is as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study on the Small Craft Harbours program, particularly its findings regarding the divestiture of wharves; that the Committee invite the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, experts, government officials and industry stakeholders to discuss this issue, and that the Committee hold at least four meetings to do so; and that the Committee report its findings and recommendations to the House.

Thank you.

[ English ]

The Chair :

Thank you. We've heard the notices of motions and we'll get to those when they come forward. Do you have another one?

[ Translation ]

Mrs. Caroline Desbiens :

Allow me to suggest the following: We could establish priorities based on what was said today in subcommittee, given the large number of notices of motion filed.

[ English ]

The Chair :

I'm sure that will be a discussion not just at any subcommittee, but at committee of the whole as well. In the past, we found that the subcommittee didn't work real well for FOPO. When we came back here and had recommendations from the subcommittee, they always got hashed out pretty heavily, so we just leaned on the committee as an entire group to deal with the actual motions when they come forward. I would remind everybody, of course, that all of these motions have to be provided to the clerk and the members in both official languages when they do come forward as a motion.

Please do that, and do it even with your notice of motion, so that they have them on record and everybody will have them. Is there any other business? We have Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.) :

Thank you, Chair. I want to congratulate you on being chair. I have to say that since the Newfoundland members were acknowledging each other, I have to acknowledge my counterpart in Nova Scotia. It's great to see everybody here. This may be a two-line pass as well, but it's just in terms of a point of clarification. With respect to the notices of motions on studies, others can be made at a later date, correct? When we come back in January, if there's a study that a collection of us folks are working on, we can bring that forth in a fashion similar to what we're doing now.

The Chair :

Yes. Any time we're doing committee business, a motion can be...actually, not just a notice of motion but a motion can be moved, debated and voted on at any time. We've seen that happen many times. We could set our

schedule to do A, B and C and something will interrupt it. Somebody may move a motion to do something else and we may see the importance of it and get that done before we move any further on anything else that happens along the way.

Mr. Mike Kelloway :

Thank you, Chair.

The Chair :

That's not a problem. Hearing nothing else, it's my understanding that our time slots for committee will be Tuesdays and Thursdays from 11 till 1. We do have Thursday coming up, of course. I don't know if it's the intent of the committee to meet on that particular day. Or do we leave it until we come back after the Christmas recess? I'm looking to the committee members for some direction. Mr. Arnold.

(1150) Mr. Mel Arnold :

Thank you, Chair. The House calendar shows us sitting through till Friday. Are we going to be meeting on Thursday?

The Chair :

That's what I'm asking the committee now. Go ahead, Mr. Cormier.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mel.

Mr. Mel Arnold :

I would suggest we could meet on Thursday to discuss some of these motions and hopefully pass them to be moved forward.

The Chair :

Okay. Mr. Cormier.

Mr. Serge Cormier :

If I'm not mistaken, this week was just the meeting for the founding of the committee. [ Translation ] I do not think there were any other opportunities to sit this week. The committees have agreed on this issue. Is that correct, Mr. Chair?

[ English ]

The Chair :

Wait one second. Mr. Zimmer.

Mr. Bob Zimmer :

I would concur with my colleague Mr. Arnold, and as a caucus we would support having a meeting Thursday at the same time as today, 11 to one. I would support that. Thank you.

The Chair :

Ms. Barron.

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Thank you. Very similar to what my colleague Caroline Desbiens was saying, I would like to see us have some sort of a working session, however that looks, in the new year, where we sit down to look at timeline priorities. I have some motions I'd like to bring forward as well, and I want to make sure we have the time to think about them thoroughly, have them available in both languages, and process and develop a timeline and priorities. I think that would be better suited to the new year than to Thursday.

The Chair :

Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Rick Perkins :

I appreciate that, but we have a limited number of days to meet, and we already have a heavy schedule. I don't think we should pass up the opportunity to meet this Thursday or, frankly, even, as was suggested on the other side, to start in January and not wait until February to come back, because there's a lot of opportunity for us to get to work, and we need to get to work.

The Chair :

Mr. Zimmer, go ahead again on that point.

Mr. Bob Zimmer :

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I support what my colleague Mr. Perkins has said. As a former member of many committees and chair of one, I will say that if we get our studies figured out, work can be done over the next four to five weeks to organize witnesses and get everything ready for us to come back at the end of January so we hit the ground running. I think it's a great plan by Mr. Perkins. Thanks.

The Chair :

Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Mike Kelloway :

Thanks, Mr. Chair. The first thing I want to do is to take a course on putting my earphone in my ear. I'm wondering if there's an openness among the committee here to look to you to see if you can touch base with whoever is doing the scheduling to ascertain, number one, whether there are translation services available on Thursday, there is space available on Thursday and things of that nature. There does seem to be some confusion as to what's on the

schedule and what's not on the schedule. That's what I'm hearing, at least. That would be through you to whoever organizes the

schedule and puts it together and depending on what's available and what's not available.

The Chair :

Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Mel Arnold :

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As far as we've seen, the committee is scheduled to meet Tuesdays and Thursdays from 11 until one, so I don't know if the scheduling would be a challenge or not. There have been a number of notices of motion served today. If on Thursday we could at least get through the discussion of whether or not those motions would be approved, that would give us a much better opportunity to start forward planning so that when we come back in January, we could lay out timelines so that we know what motions we may be looking at. I would encourage us to meet on Thursday if possible.

The Chair :

Can I suggest that I allow the clerk to check on availability of room, time, translation and everything else that goes with it in order to be able to do that meeting on Thursday? If everything lines up, we'll probably plan a meeting for Thursday from 11 to one. If not, we'll send out a notification to everybody contrary to having a meeting and why it couldn't go ahead, so everybody would know and could make their plans around that, if everybody is okay with that suggestion. Mr. Zimmer.

(1155) Mr. Bob Zimmer :

Since the clerk is sitting right beside you, is there a way to ask the clerk now if that's possible?

The Chair :

As far as the clerk knows, time and space are available for Thursday, slotted out for 11to 1. We'll make sure that is confirmed. The only thing that would knock it off the rails would be if the House decided to recess on Wednesday instead of Friday, which, of course, for any of us who have been here for a little while, is not abnormal to have happen either. If that happens, we'll all know the meeting won't go ahead, but if the House is still sitting, it is scheduled for 11 to 1 on Thursday, and we'll try to get through as much business as possible. We have Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Rick Perkins :

Can I suggest that if we get thrown off that we hold a meeting as soon as possible in January to do the work that Mr. Arnold has outlined?

The Chair :

We'll work on that as well. Do you mean before coming back on the 31st?

Mr. Rick Perkins :

Yes. If something happens and we have votes—or whatever may happen on Thursday—if we're not sitting, I suggest that we organize a meeting as soon as possible after that and not wait until February.

The Chair :

Okay. That's duly noted. That's not a problem. Go ahead, Ms. Barron.

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Thank you. I have just a question. There are a couple of points if we do meet on Thursday. The first is on the motions that are being moved. Will we be having a later conversation to determine prioritization and the timeline around those motions being moved? On the other piece, will I or any other members here today have an opportunity to bring forward new motions on Thursday?

The Chair :

Yes. If it's committee business, you can bring it forward.

Ms. Lisa Marie Barron :

Thank you.

The Chair :

I have Mr. Hardie.

Mr. Ken Hardie :

I think we all need something to do with headphones and masks.... I would suggest to the committee that if we are able to meet on Thursday, we think about the timeliness of some of the issues that have been brought up. I would note in particular the tubbing issue on the west coast. Decisions have to be made on that, because they're due to go out fishing in a couple of months, and the sooner they know, the better. I'd just put that stake in the ground right now so that our discussion is focused.

The Chair :

Thank you, Mr. Hardie. Hearing no further discussion, I thank everyone for their time and their participation today. If all goes well, we'll see everyone at 11 on Thursday. Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.