EVIDENCE

Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs NUMBER 026 2nd SESSION 43rd PARLIAMENT Tuesday, March 9, 2021 Le mardi 9 mars 2021 Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs CANADA [Recorded by Electronic Apparatus] EVIDENCE March 9, 2021 Committee NUMBER 026 NUMBER 026 NUMÉRO 026 26 09 03 2021 2021/03/09 11:00:00 House Of Commons Comité permanent de la procédure et des affaires de la Chambre Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs PROC Chair Ms. Ruby Sahota 2 43

(1100) [ English ]

The Chair (Ms. Ruby Sahota (Brampton North, Lib.)) :

I call this meeting to order. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 26 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. Therefore, members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

I would like to remind all participants in this meeting that taking a screenshot or taking photos of your screen is not permitted. Given the ongoing pandemic situation and consistent with public health recommendations, all those who are attending this meeting in person.... No members thus far are attending in person, but there are staff in the room. I just want to remind everyone to maintain a two-metre physical distance and to wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It's highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when seated.

Everyone must maintain the proper hand hygiene by using the provided hand sanitizer at the entrance of the room. For those participating virtually, which is everyone thus far, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice.

Interpretation services are available for the meeting. At the bottom of your screen you have the choice of floor, English or French audio. With the latest Zoom version you may now speak in the language of your choice without the need to select the corresponding language channel, although I think from what we have seen I would advise that maybe you take a two-second pause in your speech before you switch to using the other language. I think that can help with the changeover of the

interpretation channel. The “raise hand” feature is now also more easily accessible at the bottom of your toolbar. Since you are all participating virtually, you should just use the “raise hand” feature on the toolbar if you would like to speak. If you want to raise a point of order, then just unmute yourself and state that you have a point of order. I will maintain a list for anyone wishing to speak to that point of order according to the list that's generated through the Zoom application. Where we left off, I'm sure most of us remember our last meeting.

We adjourned that meeting, so I'm really at the will of the committee as to what we'd like to discuss today. We have Ms. Vecchio's motion. We also have three motions from Monsieur Therrien, and we have a motion from Mr. Blaikie on a possible study as well. All of those are up for discussion if you would like. Ms. Vecchio, go ahead.

(1105) Mrs. Karen Vecchio (Elgin—Middlesex—London, CPC) :

Thanks very much. On February 23, I had put forward the motion regarding the prorogation study and requesting the witnesses. I believe that many members have had the opportunity to speak on this, and we've had over six hours of debate on it already. I believe it would be appropriate to call the vote on this motion as put forward. Thank you.

The Chair :

Are the members in agreement for that? I see a hand up. Monsieur Lauzon.

[ Translation ]

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon (Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, Lib.) :

Good morning, everyone. Indeed, we still have things to add regarding this topic. We need to discuss it until we reach an agreement.

[ English ]

The Chair :

I don't see that we have agreement to move to a vote at this time. Hopefully at some point we will get there. Next up is Mr. Turnbull.

Mr. Ryan Turnbull (Whitby, Lib.) :

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to show my support for Mr. Lauzon and say that I don't believe [ Technical difficulty—Editor ] on this matter, unfortunately. Since the last time we met, I have had quite a few thoughts on this motion. I'm displeased that we're continuing with this debate. Unfortunately, I think the opposition parties are intent on pursuing this matter rather than focusing on what I think is most important for this committee to be focused on these days. There is one point I need to make more strongly, and I really feel a deep conviction for this.

If the opposing members don't view the response to COVID-19 as a worthwhile reason to recalibrate the government's priorities, then what is a good reason? We know that COVID-19 has hit our economy and impacted the lives of people across Canada more deeply than the 2008 and 2009 great recession, as I think it's been called in the past. When you think about the impact, I have reports here—

The Chair :

Mr. Turnbull, I apologize, but is anyone else hearing an echo? It could just be me, because I think I am having some issues.

Mr. Ryan Turnbull :

I have had this happen once before, and the last time it happened I unplugged and plugged back in my headset and it seemed to resolve itself. Maybe I could try that before we continue, if that's okay.

(1110) The Chair :

So far, so good. I don't hear an echo right now.

Mr. Ryan Turnbull :

It's better for me, so far.

Mr. Wayne Long (Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.) :

The echo is back.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Justin Vaive) :

We are getting an indication that there seems to be a weakness in your Wi-Fi, so it's not coming through perfectly clear. We'll get an IT ambassador to reach out to you to see if we can resolve the issue.

Mr. Ryan Turnbull :

I tried it again. How does that sound? Is that working? I see that Ms. May is giving a thumbs-up. I don't seem to be echoing.

The Chair :

Yes, it sounds good. Let's give it a go. It seemed that after the first minute, it started again.

Mr. Ryan Turnbull :

Normally I have a pretty good connection here, but thank you for that. It might be resolved, but if it continues, perhaps I can get IT support. If it's necessary, I'll let someone else take my spot and then pick up where I leave off.

In my remarks, I was just expressing this heartfelt conviction I have that if proroguing during COVID-19 is not deemed to be a good reason, we have a real problem, because when you look at past prorogations, even the one in 2008 and then the one in 2009, when Prime Minister Stephen Harper used his prerogative to prorogue, all the comments made in the media were that these prorogations were the result of the government's need to assess the economic uncertainty and impact and reset the agenda. I have several quotes from Dimitri Soudas.

In 2009, in the Toronto Star, he was quoted as saying that with the recession easing, now “is the time to engage with constituents, stakeholders and businesses in order to listen to Canadians, identify priorities and to set the next stage of our agenda.” This points to the relationship between the economic recession we were under, which was starting to lift, and the need to then re-evaluate and reset the agenda, which is very consistent with what [ Technical difficulty—Editor ] testified to and consistent with the prorogation report we've all seen and read at this point. It's just a parallel.

In comparison, it seems that this rationale was good enough for the general public and members of Parliament back in 2009, and what we're dealing with is a public health crisis first, but an economic crisis that's 10 times greater, at least, than what we saw in 2008 and 2009.

I think that really underscores that the rationale provided should be, and is, a great reason for resetting the agenda and evaluating the priorities of Canadians and how to recover from this deep social and economic impact that COVID-19 has caused, and I would say, the public health measures that have been utilized to protect, to the greatest extent possible, human health and human life across Canada. I would like to actually reference a document that I've been reading. I think it's really pertinent to our debate today. It's the six-month update, called “The Social and Economic Impacts of COVID-19”.

It was published in September 2020 by the chief statistician of Canada. It's a sizable document, so I wouldn't blame anybody for not reading it, yet I found it very interesting. It's 134 pages, and it outlines the really deep social and economic impacts of COVID-19 that we were all dealing with at the moment in time when our Prime Minister decided to use his prerogative to ask for prorogation and re-evaluate the government's priorities and reset the agenda. I think anyone can access this document. It's publicly available, and it's extremely useful in terms of outlining the depth of the impact on our economy.

I draw your attention to a number of points here that are also really reflected in the throne speech. I remember that in our last meeting I spent quite a bit of time delineating how the consultation process during prorogation was really in depth and thorough.

(1115) It really engaged members of Parliament. It engaged other parties in the discussions. It really looked at what data and evidence we had and what the priorities should be. I feel that the throne speech, although with broad strokes, of course—with some continuity, for sure, from the original priorities that were outlined in the platform prior, even continuity with the previous throne speech—largely reflected the needs that were expressed by my constituents and, I believe, Canadians in general.

I would go even further today and say that the needs that were reflected in the broad strokes of that new throne speech actually respond effectively to the major impacts that were outlined by the chief statistician of Canada in this 134-page document that I think is an incredible body of work. I'm not sure how many people it must have taken to produce such an in-depth report. I'm sure there were a lot of people behind putting this together. It's really useful. I would like to quote something from the forward that I think is really important to keep in mind.

It highlights the need for an inclusive, equitable recovery. The chief statistician of Canada wrote this forward, so it's a quote from him. His name is Anil Arora. He says:

The crisis has also laid bare many of the social and economic hardships facing marginalized Canadians, raising fundamental questions about the inclusiveness of the recovery.

That's one piece, I think, of an important argument to be made, which is to look at that statement, look at the evidence and really look at how the throne speech responds to that and how it outlines an inclusive, resilient recovery plan—again, in broad strokes because a throne speech is, as we know, not a detailed plan. It doesn't outline every single thing that the government is going to do in full detail, of course. I don't think it would be reasonable for us to expect that in a throne speech. I would also say that Anil Arora says:

Responding effectively to a crisis requires timely, credible information. COVID-19 has substantially increased the demand for data and analyses that illuminate the challenges facing Canadians as households, businesses, and governments gravitate toward a new normal.

There's a lot of really good information in this document. I would like to just start by highlighting a few of the key findings that I think are really pertinent. One of the key findings—and this is on page four—is that:

The health impacts of COVID-19 go beyond the effects of the virus.

One statistic that I think is worth pointing out is that:

The pandemic has had unprecedented impacts on the quality of life of Canadians, who have reported their lowest levels of life satisfaction since data became available in 2003.

That's one point. People report, and that's self-reported data. I would say that people's perceptions of their life satisfaction is the only thing that matters when doing that type of research. It's their perception of their quality of life. It's a good indicator of how much this has impacted Canadians. Also, it says:

Fewer Canadians reported being in very good or excellent mental health—with young Canadians registering the largest declines.

Also, the report points out what it calls “excess mortality”. That's kind of a strange term. Essentially, looking at population level data, we would be able to predict the anticipated mortality rate of Canadians, and it graphs that out. It shows how many more deaths there have been during this crisis than what would normally be anticipated in the normal cycle of life of Canadians. That's another statistic in here that I think is very important.

(1120) Another key finding is that the economic impacts of COVID-19 have been uneven across population groups. I think this is really important for us to realize. I know that many other colleagues feel just as passionately as I do about the importance of supporting segments of the population that are marginalized and that have been disproportionately impacted by COVID-19. The report states:

The historic declines in economic activity disproportionately affected many vulnerable Canadians, including women, youth, new immigrants, visible minorities and lower-wage workers.

Visible minorities are overrepresented in sectors hardest hit by the pandemic, including food and accommodation services, contributing to high rates of unemployment.

We also see the research data pointing to the impact on indigenous populations:

36% of Indigenous participants reported that the pandemic had an impact on their ability to meet financial obligations or essential needs, compared with 25% of non-Indigenous participants.

That's a significant increase; that's 11% over non-indigenous individuals who participated. This points to the inequity we're seeing within the pandemic itself, and I think it's part of how the pandemic response needs to reflect the inequities that we see across the impacts. Let me go even a little bit further here:

The impact of COVID-19 on economic activity has been unprecedented and highly uneven across sectors.

This is another point that the chief statistician said was a key finding of this extensive report. Again, think back to the throne speech that outlined supports for hardest-hit industries. I would add here that we're still trying to get that support through Parliament and to get some of the essential supports for the hardest-hit industries actually passed through the House of Commons. It is unfortunate that this is being delayed. The report states:

The impact of COVID-19 on certain sectors, particularly those that provide consumer-facing services and rely more on travel and tourism, has been particularly severe. Lower-wage services have been impacted to a much greater extent than high-wage services.

This means that individuals who are staffing the firms that offer these lower-wage positions are ones that are also being impacted, because the economic impacts are hitting the service sector and consumer-facing services much harder. I think we've all seen that in retail, probably in our local communities. I've certainly heard it from my chamber of commerce and my business improvement area over and over, that these are the industries that have been hardest hit. The report states:

The recovery in jobs will depend in large part on the ability of many businesses to adapt to changes in financial and operating conditions, including more uncertain demand for their products and services.

The report also goes into how this pandemic is having a “transformative impact” on existing business models. Similarly, businesses are having to digitalize. Obviously, more people are teleworking. In some instances, some of these lower-wage workers are also at much higher risk of having robotics or automation replace their jobs. This is a big trend within this report as well. In fact, there are many risks and many impacts on those lower-wage workers that the rest of us who are higher-wage don't feel and experience to the same degree.

(1125) Airline passenger volumes, measured year over year, remained down 94% in June. As of July, payroll employment in accommodation and food services industries was at about two-thirds of its pre-COVID level, so it was down one-third. Again, these impacts were at that time. This report really outlines the impacts between when the pandemic hit, and basically, August. The report was produced in September, so it was actually used as a platform of foundational data that could then help inform the consultation process that was being undertaken at the same time.

If you keep drawing the lines between what the data tells us and what the throne speech says, I think you understand that we're not making this up. It made sense. It was rational. It was a good thing to do, to pause and reset the agenda and evaluate where we were at. One of the other key findings that is important on the social impact side is that the social impacts have also been uneven. There have been greater impacts on those population groups with pre-existing vulnerabilities. This included immigrants and visible minorities, who, as I've already said, are overrepresented as frontline workers.

They were also put at greater risk of contracting COVID-19, because many of them were on the front lines, working throughout the pandemic. Also, it's important to point out that the data showed that visible minorities had perceived and self-reported an increase in harassment, attacks and stigma since the pandemic began. The rates were highest among Chinese, Korean and Southeast Asian participants. I take this very seriously.

Not only are visible minorities working in the pandemic on the front lines more hit by the economic impacts, putting themselves more at risk of contracting COVID-19, but they are also experiencing harassment, attacks and stigmatization as a result. Obviously, I'm really not happy about this. It's very hard to shoulder this and even process it, because it's exacerbating vulnerability on top of vulnerability and really providing evidence as to why we might see this resurgence in movements that are seeking greater equity for populations, or subpopulations, that are vulnerable and highly impacted by COVID-19.

Also, it's important to note that social isolation due to COVID had heightened the risk of family violence. From victim services, 54% of respondents reported an increase in the number of victims of domestic violence served between mid-March and early July. Again, this highlights quite a few different important findings. If you look at the throne speech, again, you can make direct connections between what appears in the throne speech and some of the data that has been collected. Another key finding is managing the pandemic, moving forward.

Canadians are willing to take precautions to slow the spread of COVID-19, but there are differences across groups, and that was apparent from the data. One example was that 90% or more of Canadians said they would take precautions such as handwashing, avoiding crowds and wearing masks. What I found encouraging about this particular portion of the report was that it shows how much Canadians in general are willing to do in order to protect the health and lives of others. It was very encouraging to me to think that we have data that shows that.

(1130) That data was shown to fluctuate depending on the severity and the number of cases that people were aware of. Think about how public health keeps reporting our daily numbers and how some of our extremely reputable doctors are putting that data out there to keep us all informed. That actually impacts Canadians quite a bit in terms of their willingness to protect others and take the pandemic seriously.

It's really important that this data is put out there because the data that the chief statistician gathered shows that it does impact what people are willing to do and give up in terms of the disruption to their lives. They understand that as case numbers are increasing, they have to do more and they have to abide by these public health measures. There's a larger degree of compliance as a result of their being aware of the case numbers going up. These are all important points for us to keep in mind when we're thinking about the rationale for prorogation and making the link back to....

I'm not being unreasonable here. If former prime minister Stephen Harper prorogued for a recession that pales in comparison to this pandemic, then certainly the economic impacts of COVID-19 would merit the same consideration and provide a perfectly reasonable rationale for proroguing Parliament. There were other findings here that I think are important. I'll try not to repeat myself.

On changes in Canadians' concerns and response to COVID-19, it says that, as restrictions are lifted and activities resume, social interactions increase, particularly among youth, Canadian born and those living outside central Canada. There are some other findings here:

Concerns remain about resuming certain activities such as attending events, travelling by airplane, and gathering in large groups—particularly among seniors, immigrants, and Ontarians.

Many Canadians at high risk of severe outcomes due to COVID-19 said that they would try to continue to work from home. There are many other findings, but I think we see that as restrictions were lifted, the compliance with some of those public health restrictions were less. As such, we've seen a second wave emerge and now we're probably on the cusp of what we would call a third wave of COVID-19, which is deeply concerning. I wanted to make a few other points about the health risk of resuming activities and willingness to take precautions, which I think is important to highlight.

It is important to note that the throne speech recentred on the health needs of Canadians. That's why the throne speech, if you actually look at it, really does focus and is structured in a way.... We all were quite excited between the first and second wave. I certainly felt an energy that we were coming out of this. Then it quickly came grinding to a halt when we realized for sure that there was going to be a second wave, which I think any person who has studied pandemics would have been able to predict. I don't think it was actually all that surprising.

I can definitely tell you that I was caught up in the thought of focusing on recovery and addressing the inequities in our country and many of the other issues that are going to be important coming out of this.

(1135) When you look at how the throne speech is structured, it has four foundations. The first one was protecting Canadians from COVID-19. The second one was helping Canadians in businesses through the pandemic, and then building back better. I remember one of the witnesses calling it a catchphrase. I have lots to say about that. It's not a catchphrase to me. It's a really important concept that is an inspiring vision for a new economy that can emerge stronger, more resilient, more inclusive, more equitable and more sustainable for the planet. That is something I would work until the day I die to achieve.

It's something I believe in. Then the last one was to stand up for who we are as Canadians. That's how the throne speech was structured, so it really centres on protecting Canadians, first and foremost, from COVID-19. It then talks about how to get Canadians and businesses through the pandemic, and then how we recover in terms of building back better and standing up for Canadians. I really do feel that it reflects a lot of the data, even just in the way that it's structured.

I am going to make a few more points here about how concerns about overwhelming the health care system remained at that point and ensuring that we made workplaces safe. Approximately half of at-risk individuals who were employed rated their risk among employed individuals as higher. In terms of absolute numbers, sectors with the highest estimated number of workers at risk of adverse outcomes of COVID-19 were in health care and social assistance.

That's not surprising given those folks were working on the front lines and caring for people during the pandemic in retail trade; manufacturing; construction; professional, scientific and technical services; and transportation and warehousing. You can see how many of these were considered essential services, and those individuals were definitely at higher risk of contracting COVID-19 and, in many cases, were also at greater risk of having underlying health conditions as well. I would just like to skip to another

section in this report, which I think really speaks to the economic impacts and the depth of the economic impacts. This is on page 44. Maybe I'll just cover the

summary. The

summary is on page 43. Regarding economic impacts and recovery related to the pandemic, “Output is recovering as businesses reopen” so, again, this was written in a time when some businesses were able to reopen to a degree, but there were “stark differences across sectors. Output in accommodation and food services in June was at 55% of its pre-pandemic level.” Another finding was that, “Employment is recovering, but steep losses remain in certain highly impacted sectors.” Again, “Youth, less educated workers, women, recent immigrants, and temporary employees” were hit the hardest. “Prior to the pandemic” is a

summary, and I have more detail on some of these points that I think is important, but firm creation is in the start-up space. Before the pandemic, new businesses being launched were on an upswing. There had been a rise in the number of businesses that were being started in Canada, and the financial position of the firms had been improving. It continues:

Closures rose dramatically during the shutdowns as employees left payrolls—62,600 business closures were observed in May, 29% less than in April but still 59% higher than pre-COVID-19 levels observed in February.

It's important to remember that those shutdowns weren't complete closures of those businesses. They were shutdowns due to the public health measures that were implemented by provinces and territories to protect people from contracting COVID-19.

(1140) There are also structural challenges in heavily affected sectors. The retail sector rebounded quickly from storefront closures, as companies developed and enhanced their online platforms. Some of them were able to move online and did rebound somewhat. Again, they were nowhere near their pre-pandemic levels, but it's a good sign that businesses can pivot, start to change their business models and rebound somewhat. In terms of the unprecedented impact of COVID-19 on the economy, we can see unprecedented declines in output. There's a really great graph on page 44 of the report that I keep referring to.

It shows what the output in our economy was from 2007 to 2020. You can see on the graph the size and scope of the 2008-09 recession. Annual GDP fell 2.9% in 2009. You can compare that with the economic growth over the period of 2018-19, and even prior to that there's considerable economic growth. You can compare that with the COVID-19 pandemic, with severe declines in household spending, business investment and trade, all of which amount to about five times the impact of the 2008-09 recession. The chief statistician or the team that wrote this report....

I don't pretend that the chief statistician necessarily wrote the entire report; they probably had a team of people helping. It says, “As a purposeful, policy-based response to a health crisis, the COVID-19 restrictions brought about severe contractions in most industrial sectors, including in many service-based industries that typically support the economy during conventional downturns.” I have another note that I think is important to recognize. I have some other articles on the difference between the 2008-09 recession and the COVID-19 pandemic. There's a great

article in First Policy Response that compiles a whole bunch of opinions from different experts who talk about how the economic impact of COVID-19 is far greater and much different qualitatively than that of the 2008-09 recession. The 2008-09 recession was a demand-side recession. This is totally different from what we have seen during COVID-19, which is a supply-side shock recession. We would therefore expect it to be not only much greater, but different in kind. It requires a very different set of measures, a different way of thinking and a different set of policies and strategies for dealing with it.

I won't go into depth on that right now, but I think that's important. It's also important that the chief statistician outlines, “The road to recovery will involve major adaptations for businesses and households, which pose challenges for an equitable and resilient recovery.” That's interesting when you think about how we've identified that the impacts of COVID-19 have not been equally distributed. In fact, they've impacted populations that were already much more marginalized or vulnerable. I think the chief statistician is saying that this creates additional challenges for our recovery.

(1145) The chief statistician's report also says:

During [the second quarter of 2020], household spending fell by a record 13% as families faced heightened levels of job and income uncertainty.

Employment earnings fell by almost 9% in the second quarter. At the same time, household disposable income rose by almost 11%....

This is really important for us to think when we are thinking about recovery. We saw that household spending fell by a record 13% as families faced the uncertainty of the pandemic and income loss, and employment earnings fell almost the same amount—not quite but 9%—in that second quarter. At the same time, due to our government's measures and supports, the COVID-19 relief, economic relief or financial relief supports, disposable income rose by almost 11%. That's interesting when you think about the elasticity of market and the supply-side shock on the economy.

When you put money into the pockets of Canadians to help them get through a crisis, and to some degree there's an increase in their disposable income, they're not spending it. This pushed the household savings rate to just over 28%, up from about 8% in the first quarter of 2020. Again, when the Prime Minister keeps saying that the economy's going to come roaring back, this is what he's talking about. Why is it going to come back? We are already seeing the chief financial advisers for, I believe, TD and CIBC.... I've been putting these bits of information out there as I see the articles.

They're already saying that the rebound of our economy is starting to happen. There's evidence of that. Again, this is the result of severe declines in most types of economic activity, but in terms of our fiscal measures and support measures, I think we can see that they were targeted. Some of those were outlined in the throne speech. Some of them were continued on, but a lot of them were restructured around that time as well. If you remember, the wage subsidy, for example, was completely restructured to be indexed to the revenue loss of the businesses that are out there. That makes perfect sense.

I think opposition parties were in agreement that those revisions and adaptations of that support were important to not only support businesses to get through this but also to help the support be structured in a way that allows them to actually recover and lift them out of the pandemic. That has created an impact on their businesses. To me, again, this just seems like it's all very rational and based in evidence. I know that's what I hang my hat on, that as a party and as a government, we've been putting the health and safety of Canadians first.

We've been seeking evidence and consulting with key stakeholders across this country, including opposition parties, and attempting to implement measures that are the most effective at both protecting Canadians' health and safety, and helping our economy recover and Canadians get through the crisis. To me, that gives me reassurance. Historic declines in labour market activity were another impact of COVID-19.

It continues, “Employment losses totaled 3 million from February to April, almost 2 million of which were in full-time work.” This is on page 47 of that report. “Employment rose by 1.9 million from April to August. Total employment in August was 5.3% below its pre-pandemic level.” This shows how quickly businesses started to recover and unemployment started to decrease as we came out of the first wave of COVID-19.

(1150) It still was below pre-pandemic levels, of course, because we hadn't gotten through the crisis yet, and certainly we know now that the second wave of COVID-19 was much worse so the impact on our economy has only gotten greater as a result of managing this crisis through the second wave. Now, perhaps we could have a third wave, which could be avoided, quite honestly. If we stuck with our public health measures and didn't lift them prematurely, I think we could avoid a third wave, which would benefit our economy and all of Canadians as well as their health.

Of course, the most important part of dealing with a pandemic is the health and safety of people. I was really heartened by the fact that the Prime Minister called for March 11 to be a day to observe the incredible loss of life during COVID-19. I don't know how many people have been impacted by this exactly, but I know that 22,269 people have lost their lives in this pandemic over the last year.

I think about the ripple effects on all of the people who were in their families, all of the friends, all of the communities that are experiencing those losses, and we need to remind ourselves that every life matters, every single life matters. We can't ever become desensitized to the loss of life that's occurred from this pandemic. While most of my speech has focused on the depth of impact on our economy and on our society, I really think that the impact and the loss of human life is something that we can never lose sight of.

Maybe I'll leave it there for the moment because I have so much more to say and there are so many more good points in here, but this might be a good time for me to take a moment. I feel myself getting a bit emotional, which is I think is natural, given how hard we've all been working for so long and how long I've just spoken for. That's a heartfelt reminder of the loss of human life that's happened in this pandemic, which I take very seriously. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll maybe resume again after some of my colleagues have had a few words, but that is a good place for me to stop for the moment. Thank you.

The Chair :

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull. I could actually sense the emotion in your words at this point as well. Thanks for your speech. Monsieur Lauzon.

[ Translation ]

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Turnbull, your way of showing us the human side of this pandemic is incredible and truly touching. It's a wonderful way to approach the topic. We couldn't be more appreciative of your explanation for why we're here and the importance of being in the government. This historic situation is also a life experience. We'll be part of history and we'll be able to say that we were here to make good decisions. That's why I'll be speaking more about the importance of the prorogation and the fact that we're still discussing it as a result of a purely political motion. It seems to want to get us to where we should be putting our energy.

(1155) [ English ]

The Chair :

Mr. Lauzon, can you raise your microphone just a little bit?

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Yes. Is it better like this?

The Chair :

Let's just verify it with the clerk.

[ Translation ]

The Clerk :

That's much better, Mr. Lauzon. You can continue.

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Thank you. During the committee meeting on December 10, we spoke about this motion, which was introduced in the wake of the prorogation. Mr. Turnbull opened the door to debate by saying that, if a pandemic didn't warrant a prorogation, he didn't know what it would take to warrant one. As I told you before, that's why we'll be part of history. Did we foresee these events a year ago? We had all been elected for a few months and we were full of enthusiasm, in every committee. In the House, we were together. There was life on the Hill and in the lobbies of Parliament.

We never missed an opportunity to give each other a good handshake or a hug. Now we almost exclusively meet virtually. A small minority of us are in the House. We can see the committee room, but it's empty. Only the staff are there. Right now, we all meet virtually. We're having experiences that no one could have predicted. At this point, I think that our committee is more relevant than ever. We have a list of issues that we should consider significant. That said, the list must be modified, because the priorities are different from what they used to be.

We've had the opportunity to learn the ins and outs of the procedures that we must implement. Our committee should be one of the most active, after the Standing Committee on Health, of course, given that we're talking about a health crisis. It should be one of the most engaged and dynamic committees. We should be showing the public that our procedures are effective, and we should know how we can do better in a government during a pandemic. However, nothing in the motion reflects this. The prorogation is being used as a symbol and the motion is being used as a way to prove that a prorogation wasn't necessary.

Basically, this is undermining our fine government and parliamentary machinery and preventing us from moving forward on certain issues. The members of the opposition parties tried to show that the WE Charity caused the issue, despite the many nuances provided by several witnesses. Some witnesses disagreed. They felt that it was necessary to prorogue Parliament in order to move forward with decisions on the pandemic and to give the government an opportunity to refocus on priorities that serve the interests of Canadians.

It's important to remember that we were the first government to propose a report after the prorogation. That public report was well received. We explained why, in this unprecedented situation, the prorogation was warranted. I want to quote from the evidence given by Kathy L. Brock, a political studies professor at Queen's University. She said the following about the reasons for the prorogation last August:

First, yes, to reset, but also to emphasize what the government priorities are in a changed circumstance ...

(1200) Second, if you look at 2020, this was a government that was tired. This was a government that was under a lot of pressure. This is when a government makes very serious mistakes, and they are exposed to the public as failures of government, malfeasance or misdemeanours of some type, when in fact they're due to errors of exhaustion. This gave the government and the public sector time to regain their energy.

I want to talk to you about this. This may sound trite, but I wasn't fortunate enough to receive a high level of education in my youth. However, I enjoyed being a welder for 21 years, a good part of my life. Afterwards, I went back to university to become a teacher. I want to talk to you about the most important issue, which is the psychological fatigue and human fatigue tied to the work environment. We experience psychological fatigue on a daily basis. Every day, we contact people, we work in committees and we meet with witnesses. During a pandemic, almost nothing positive happens.

We're all teleworking and staying at home. I think that this is extremely difficult on a psychological level. Together, we need to show the public that we're human, that we're here, that we're listening to our constituents and that we're strong, despite all the deaths. Personally, this has affected me directly, since I'm the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Seniors. During the pandemic, I was the one in office, and I still am. It hurts me a great deal when someone takes the opportunity to make political hay on the backs of seniors.

It hurts me tremendously to hear someone say that the deaths are related to politics. This pressure has been mounting for ages, and it just concerns the psychological aspect. I could go on and on. Our committees will need to do more work on social isolation and the psychological damage experienced during a crisis. As you can see, we're all very comfortable. Some people are working from their kitchens or the great outdoors, while others are working in offices or nice spaces. However, this isn't how things really are. I've attended Zoom meetings.

Sometimes, the presidents of certain associations had to move into a closet or a small room because their three children were running around the house. They had to seclude themselves in places where they could access the Internet. This doesn't even take into account family pressure. I'll address the importance of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. At the last meeting, we opened a door, and it got me thinking. I wrote about anything that would support work-life balance and teleworking. I made a distinction between the two, but I'll save that for later.

I really want to tell you how much talking to the members of the new committee made me think. I now want to talk about my job as a welder. When we felt psychological fatigue, it affected our work. We wondered whether we were in the right place and we called our work into question. It also affected our colleagues, our performance and our sleep. As members of Parliament, we're no different from anyone else. We sometimes have sleep issues, which affect our health. Lack of sleep can be linked to high blood pressure or diabetes, for example. We all have small hidden health issues.

Experiencing stress, a pandemic and psychological distress isn't good for our health. Queen's University professor Kathy L. Brock often said that this enabled us to regain our energy somewhat. Was the timing right or not? We discussed the matter. We'll have a chance to talk about it again a little later. I think that the timing was right. Mr. Turnbull clearly explained the process after the first wave and the importance of preparing for the second wave.

(1205) I'll talk about fatigue. We just spoke about psychological distress. The professor was right on the money. However, she also talked about exhaustion caused by long working hours. As members of Parliament, we're always meeting, always talking, and we're still being asked a lot about vaccines. I understand that we're in politics and that I also chose to get into politics. There has never been such a great opportunity for us to work together. We shouldn't be using this opportunity to play politics.

Sometimes, I find it really distasteful when a journalist's words, for example, are used in public or in the House to score points in the middle of a pandemic. Whether we like it or not, we must deal with this pandemic and we shouldn't use it to play politics. We can politicize many other issues. Many issues are on the table. The House is continuing to sit as a result of the many support programs established during the pandemic. I want to tell the opposition members that we looked everywhere for ideas and that there's no better consultation.

For example, for the new horizons for seniors program, we worked with all the parties to ensure that seniors in every constituency in Canada could benefit from the program. The program criteria weren't established based on merit alone. They were established on a constituency-by-constituency basis, with a minimum requirement for each constituency. Several constituencies represented by opposition members benefited more from the program. In the past, some constituencies didn't even apply for the new horizons for seniors program. These communities now have several projects.

We're getting emails from members of the opposition parties thanking us for our work. This was the result of taking a step back. With the minister's help, we consulted with all the parties so that we could invest an additional $20 million for seniors during the pandemic. These projects are being created to break isolation, to purchase new iPads, to provide Internet training or to teach seniors how to connect through Zoom or FaceTime. These are small, basic training sessions. I've seen some great projects. I saw that people were offering online yoga classes for seniors.

One teacher was doing yoga online to get seniors moving in their rooms, when they were isolated for the past four or five months with a bed, a chair and a sink. The physical distress that these seniors experienced is the same distress that Queen's University professor Kathy L. Brock described. Exhaustion has been experienced everywhere. Young people have never watched so many television shows or played so many video games. As part of my family values, I like my children to move around, meet with friends and socialize. You know that we all, as members of Parliament, have an active social life.

Several of my activities take place on the weekends. My children are used to following me around or doing other activities where they meet people. Now they're cooped up in their rooms playing video games. This is psychologically unhealthy, but what else can we do? No matter how much we introduce them to painting and music and try to innovate, we're also helping to isolate them. Psychological distress often goes hand in hand with physical distress. Everything is linked. The prorogation gave the government a chance to take a step back and set new priorities.

(1210) Of course, for Canadians, the fight against COVID-19 is important. However, the economic recovery is also important. Mr. Turnbull talked about this. A great deal has been done. It takes many measures to spend $300 billion. Is this perfect? No, nothing is perfect in this world. Nothing is perfect in a crisis where we must rush to make decisions. We're still debating the decision on the Canada recovery sickness benefit. None of the 338 members of the House of Commons anticipated that a worker returning from a trip down south would be eligible for these benefits while in quarantine.

We didn't even think about travel at that point. We didn't think that the provincial governments would allow people to travel or that agencies would offer cheap trips down south, which created a difficult situation when people returned home. Everyone voted for this measure, but no one thought about this possibility, because we were making decisions quickly. We often need to take a step back in order to move forward. Psychological and physical exhaustion can lead to mistakes. In politics, there isn't much room for error.

I don't know how many questions we've received in the House about travellers returning to Canada. I don't know how many emails I've received about the fact that workers returning from trips would obtain $1,000 in compensation for lost earnings during their quarantine. We made this decision together and we must take responsibility for it. However, the opposition took this opportunity to try to show that we were making bad decisions. Now we're discussing a prorogation that some people say shouldn't have taken place.

However, the opposition members' questions clearly show that they had already decided why we prorogued Parliament. Several opposition members said that the prorogation should have taken place at the start, before we even knew the ins and outs of the situation, before we even knew that there would be a second wave and variants, and before we even knew how the vaccine development and negotiations would proceed. At the time, we said only that we were working with seven different vaccine suppliers and that this would give Canada the largest range of vaccines in the world.

Yet we heard only that we weren't doing anything about vaccines and that we were unable to govern because we were caught off guard by the $1,000 sent to travellers, even though this money stemmed from a measure that everyone supported. We missed a great opportunity to show Canadians that we were working together to fight the pandemic. Queen's University professor Kathy L. Brock spoke about the reasons for the August prorogation. She said that the prorogation gave the government a chance to step back and set new priorities for Canadians, including the fight against COVID-19, but also the economic recovery.

That's where my colleague Mr. Turnbull set the stage. We needed a fresh start, because we knew that there would be a tremendous impact on our economy, and therefore on our businesses. In constituencies like mine, in rural areas, micro-businesses are the largest employers.

(1215) When we have a factory with 40 employees, that's wonderful. In a rural area, we don't have office towers, we don't build more than three stories, and we don't have public transportation. However, 60% of the population doesn't have affordable high-speed Internet access. This sums up how isolated we are and shows the importance of working together in a rural area during a pandemic like COVID-19. We needed to take a step back and look at the big picture and to really refocus on the priorities in order to deal with the pandemic.

Speaking of decisions and taking a step back, do you think that we've been twiddling our thumbs? No. We've never done so many consultations. We've never talked so much. We've never prepared so thoroughly for after the pandemic. We're currently in the midst of the pandemic. However, we need to talk about what will happen afterwards, about the economic recovery. This recovery will depend on our decisions. The Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs really has a role to play in all this. We have many other things to do besides trying to play politics and undermine the government with this type of motion.

We can talk about this later. At the start, a move to vote was made because we had had a six-hour debate. No debate will be long enough to ensure that we can keep working together without undermining the government. The prorogation study launched in December involved a dozen witnesses. Since then, the vaccines have arrived, we're in the midst of distributing the vaccines to the provinces and territories and we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I believe in this, and I've been waiting for this moment for a very long time. However, nothing will go back to normal, because many procedures must change now.

Life won't go back to the way that it was before. I don't know how long it will be until I can meet with my colleagues or give them a good, heartfelt handshake. To me, a handshake is the best sign of agreement and acknowledgement possible. With a good handshake or a “high five,” life is good and we move on. However, this will no longer exist. No one will dare to shake our hands in the coming years. We aren't talking about months, but years. Our way of doing things will change, and so will our closeness. Fear is here to stay. I'm very sorry to say this, but fear will linger.

We met with witnesses who started by telling us that the prorogation shouldn't have taken place and that it was a way to get out of a situation. They were right. We were getting out of a situation. We were getting out of a pandemic. However, their mind was made up for the wrong reasons. The witnesses aren't experiencing what we're going through on the ground. No one else has the opportunity to experience this apart from a member of Parliament who is getting involved in their community, speaking to their people and making calls to their constituents during the week and on the weekends.

For example, if you call someone in the Toronto Centre area or the National Capital Region, where a large portion of the population consists of public servants who are teleworking, who have never been subject to a salary penalty, who have adapted to working from home with government equipment, who haven't had to spend money and who no longer need to commute, you certainly won't see as much distress and people won't be as affected.

(1220) There are two main ways to cause someone distress: hit their family or hit their wallet. The pandemic has affected not only people's wallets and families, but people themselves. The situation is extremely difficult for people who have lost their jobs, for business owners who have had to close and reopen repeatedly, and for restaurant owners who have had to close their dining rooms. In my constituency, producers have had to throw away tons of edible produce. We have a program in place to assist with produce donations to food banks.

However, it wasn't possible to donate 20 tons of potatoes to a community centre. A community centre doesn't have the capacity to handle six truckloads of potatoes or to deliver the potatoes to food banks. The system wasn't designed to deal with a pandemic. In addition, 10,000 hens had to be buried. I learned that some hens were bound for restaurants and some were bound for grocery stores. When hens are a certain size, they can't be sold at grocery stores. These hens are then bound for restaurants. Since the restaurants were closed, the hens had to be slaughtered and buried. This happened in my constituency.

These decisions were extremely difficult to make. Nothing was perfect. Furthermore, the ferries have been forgotten. Last year, when the pandemic began, Quebec was affected by flooding. In my constituency, seven municipalities were affected by flooding. At the start of the pandemic, I was at the water's edge with my long boots, alongside my constituents. We helped people get equipment out and save animals. Since a dam was showing signs of weakness and was in danger of collapsing, army helicopters were brought in as backup to quickly evacuate families from their homes and take them to a community centre.

We had to leave animals, horses and dogs behind. I experienced these things in my constituency. Now we're being hit by this pandemic. Not everyone hit by this crisis last year was eligible for the programs. We try to provide the best programs possible, but nothing is perfect and we can't serve everyone. It's extremely important to step back, reflect on the situation, and provide data to decision-makers so that we can do better. In fact, that's what we did during the pandemic.

Despite all the evidence to that effect, at the December 10, January 28, February 16 and February 18 meetings, opposition members continued to say that the prorogation occurred only because of the WE Charity scandal. They had their minds made up from the start, even before the committee began its study on the reasons for the August 2020 prorogation. So why go any further? We have everything needed to prepare a report. The reasons for the prorogation have already been established. Several experts have said that the pandemic was reason enough to prorogue Parliament.

We're talking about an unprecedented health and economic crisis that has significantly affected the lives of all Canadians. It has taken the lives of thousands of people in our country. Since this is a global crisis, we'll need to help other countries in the aftermath of the pandemic. We don't want the crisis to return or to take another form.

(1225) In Canada and Quebec, we're lucky to have our system. This crisis showed us how fragile our system was and how such a big and strong system could be broken. Yesterday was International Women's Day. I had a special thought for women. I decided to dedicate this day specifically to the women on the front lines who are serving Canadians and who have been working hard since the start of the pandemic. This unprecedented health and humanitarian crisis has strained the system. These women have felt the pressure of the broken system.

No matter how many times members of the opposition parties hear this, it seems that nothing will change what they've been thinking since this study began. I've realized this. Even though I'm a new committee member, I understood that, no matter what we say, their minds are made up. Their mind was made up even before the start of the committee meetings. As a new committee member, I had to read the full documents and analyze the information to get up to speed. I can tell you that this unprecedented crisis has opened the door to possibilities. The prorogation had a purpose.

However, the opposition used this opportunity to confuse Canadians with regard to the reasons for the prorogation. Since the opposition members had preconceived notions, the template for the questions was already prepared. I had the chance to read the questions for the various witnesses who appeared. I felt very strongly that the opposition members' minds were already made up. I want to reiterate that the reasons for the prorogation were outlined in the report on this topic. Questions were often twisted around in an attempt to get answers that opposed the prerogative of prorogation.

These are basically the thoughts that drive me and that I want to share with you today. I'll talk a bit about the report tabled in Parliament regarding the August 2020 prorogation. This document, which consists of 42 pages and includes appendices, already addresses the prorogation that took place last August. We have many other things to worry about. I'm thinking of some of the questions that you asked certain professors about the technological processes that we're currently using and that we'll be using in the future. I've seen many great things.

I'm really excited to come up with new ideas for things such as parliamentary protection and teleworking. I want to address the importance of teleworking and emphasize the difference between work-life balance and teleworking. Work-life balance is about obligations. Teleworking is about accommodation. This distinction is extremely important. I want to have the chance to discuss this matter further in the committee. I have many ideas for you. As soon as we can put this motion behind us, move forward and prepare a report, we'll be able to roll up our sleeves and work together.

This motion doesn't serve any purpose in a time of crisis.

(1230) I, for one, did my homework. I don't want to offend anyone. However, some of the points raised lead me to believe that certain committee members only skimmed over the report, without really reading it. The report clearly outlines the reasons for the prorogation that took place in August 2020. The report is clear and well written. I want to take this opportunity to thank all the staff who helped prepare the report and who organized all the questions asked by committee members and the responses provided to the committee since December. I'll briefly address this report.

I want to talk about the report because I think that it shows the irrelevance of the motion before us today. We're always coming back to this motion. In the introduction to the report, the first page notes that our government changed the Standing Orders to ensure that the current government and future governments remain transparent: “Pursuant to Standing Order 32(7), this report shall set out the reasons for the recent prorogation of Parliament.” At the outset, I spoke about the report. Our government was the first to table this type of report after a prorogation. I'll continue reading the report:

In 2015, our government committed to changing the Standing Orders to ensure that ours and future federal governments remain transparent with Canadians in all aspects of governance, including the use of prorogation. This report is intended to provide parliamentarians, and all Canadians, with greater clarity about why our government prorogued Parliament in August 2020.

This is in keeping with our commitment to Canadians. During the 10 years of Stephen Harper's government, there were prorogations. However, the reasons for the prorogations were never explained. In fact, no Prime Minister has ever publicly explained the reasons for a prorogation. Why are we tabling a report? The goal is to keep people informed and to ensure that we remain transparent. During previous prorogations, journalists and many other people could make their own assumptions about the reasons for the prorogation.

Some people brought up the economic recovery, and other people thought that it was in preparation for a cabinet shuffle, for example. In short, everyone came up with a number of reasons for the prorogation. It was important for us to set the record straight right after the prorogation and to clearly explain the reasons for the prorogation. That's why our government submitted a report explaining the reasons for the prorogation, period. The prorogation was done properly. The Prime Minister decided to prorogue Parliament. He submitted the request to the Governor General and she agreed.

We then recalled Parliament to set things straight and to work on the next steps in the pandemic. In the first half of 2020, it became clear that the 2019 Speech from the Throne, when our government won the confidence of the members of the House of Commons, no longer reflected the circumstances in which we were governing. As I said, things change very quickly. In fact, certain things may happen this week that will require us to make adjustments starting next week.

(1235) For example, we need to make adjustments each time Health Canada approves a new vaccine, since the storage or use conditions are different from one vaccine to another. There are all kinds of logistics involved in freezing vaccines. When we talk about 500,000 doses of vaccines, we aren't just talking about 500,000 arms to vaccinate. Far from it. We need to coordinate deliveries with the provinces and territories, not to mention preparations for the deliveries. Organizations were evicted from their host community centres so that refrigerators could be set up to store thousands of doses of vaccines.

All this has affected the economy, the public, the organizations and the people who will be vaccinated. In addition, each province and territory has its own vaccination system, which complicates the logistics somewhat. All this shows that our decisions this week may need to be changed or adapted next week. Under these circumstances, clearly the priorities set out in the Speech from the Throne were already different in the wake of the declaration of the COVID-19 pandemic, of course. This pandemic is not only a global health crisis, it's also a global economic crisis.

The report outlines the challenges faced by the government. The need to help Canadians was paramount, as the following quote shows:

In March alone, Canada's Gross Domestic Product contracted by 7.2 per cent and more than a million jobs were lost. In April, there was a further drop of 11.6 per cent, with 1.99 million jobs lost. Millions of Canadians now faced dire financial straits, in addition to concerns about their health and that of their loved ones.

We set up programs to try to help family caregivers, people who had lost their jobs, businesses, communities and seniors. We helped as many people as we could. Again, the pandemic is causing these job losses. I don't blame the provinces and territories for having to impose restrictions and create systems of zones—red, yellow and green. However, once an area becomes a red zone, jobs are lost and restaurants are closed. Sugar shacks in Quebec are struggling. Some of them, in my constituency, have managed to continue their activities by offering to deliver their products.

Some sugar shacks in my area have even managed to maintain their sales by reinventing themselves. However, some businesses have suffered tremendous losses. We need to step in and do more for businesses. We must respond and act quickly to help these companies deal with the crisis. Are these jobs lost forever? Will the labour market return to normal after the pandemic? Will the tourism and food service industries return to their former levels? We hope so. All the provinces have implemented the tightest restrictions possible to fight the pandemic together.

Yet opposition members stand in the House and hold the Canadian government responsible for job losses, even though drastic decisions are being made to fight the pandemic. We're being blamed for job losses and we're being accused of not responding quickly enough. I know that I'm in politics to receive this criticism from the opposition, and I accept it.

(1240) However, we now have the chance to show Canadians that the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs has a role to play and that it has everything it needs to make the best possible recommendations on a number of issues that we consider extremely important. As a new committee member, I sincerely hope that we'll all pull together to continue working. I want to work together. I also want to represent francophones. Although this committee is predominantly anglophone, I want to represent francophones in order to improve the system and move forward.

To do so, we must drop this motion, prepare the report and make progress on the many other issues. In the wake of the job losses, we responded. The prorogation gave us the chance to step back and determine how we could improve the jobs and economic situation. Out of that came the pandemic economic recovery plan. A number of measures will be taken. Our best move was to help small businesses through CFDCs and BDCs in the regions. For people who are unfamiliar with BDCs and CFDCs, I'll explain their role. These organizations help companies through grants and support services.

They help companies develop business plans, for instance. During the pandemic, the organizations have been supporting SMEs by giving them the opportunity to reinvent themselves. For example, they can help SMEs create websites. These organizations provide the funding needed for companies to keep running and to reinvent themselves. The organizations provide innovation support and help companies purchase modern equipment to increase productivity and create jobs. In short, CFDCs and BDCs will play a crucial role in the post-pandemic economic recovery.

Our government has ensured that the relevant ministers are working together, despite the pandemic. We have also been working with BDCs and CFDCs to make more funding available to invest in communities and in creating future jobs. Now we're no longer just talking about creating jobs, but about maintaining jobs. It's all very well and good to innovate and create new jobs. However, what matters is that we keep the jobs that we have. We mustn't lose our services either. In rural areas, closing a small corner store has the same effect as closing a Walmart in downtown Toronto.

We value our post offices and all our small businesses that provide personalized service. We want our workers to look forward to opening the doors of their small businesses in the morning in order to serve the public. We want them to feel excited about coming to work. Again, as the economy recovers, it's difficult to meet the needs of all types of businesses. We know that some businesses won't make it through the crisis and will close. Some businesses were already in a precarious position before the pandemic.

This could be the result of supply chain or corporate structure issues, competing businesses moving in nearby, or a shrinking market caused by changing needs or a declining interest in a product.

(1245) The government will be there to help small businesses reinvent themselves. That's one of the reasons why Parliament was prorogued. We thought about how we would help small and medium-sized businesses. We know that major food chains have been hit hard, especially when it comes to the storage of some of the less-consumed products during the pandemic. A large plant in my constituency had to close for a few weeks because the warehouses were already full. This is part of the economic crisis related to the pandemic. We took swift and concrete action to support health care systems across Canada.

On March 11, 2020, the Prime Minister announced $500 million for the provinces and territories to support the health care systems that are so critical and to make testing available. We knew that health care services were precarious and that there was a significant need for equipment. That's why we made this decision on March 11, 2020. The purpose of all this equipment was to fight the virus. The tests and rapid tests that we sent to the provinces and territories gave us the ability to track the progress of the virus. It's wrong to say that the government has done nothing for health care.

Since the start of the pandemic, we've been fully co-operating. We've transferred all the necessary equipment to provincial and territorial health care systems to fight the pandemic. It's also important to remember that we sent the army and the Red Cross as backup in two Canadian provinces where the health care system was broken. Two provinces, Quebec and Ontario, had alarming statistics. We had to get more involved in the system. We should be proud that our government could provide medical services through the military and its officials. They could provide support in places where the system was broken.

We've implemented a number of programs and measures. There's nothing better than a prorogation to give us time to sit down and think about how we can best deal with the crisis and support all health care systems in Canada. Our measures to help Canadians during this crisis were identified in working meetings or reflection sessions that we held every day. As members of Parliament, we were the eyes and ears of Canadians. We've listened to all the questions asked in the House of Commons by opposition members. We've also received many emails from members.

I've personally met with members from across the province and they've mostly spoken to me about seniors. I showed the same concern for everyone who spoke to me, no matter who they were or where they came from. I opened my door wide to people who came to talk to me about seniors and about how to improve the system, just as I'm used to doing and as I've been taught to do. In my area, the door was open to almost anyone who needed help. Now, as a member of Parliament, my door is always open to suggestions for how to improve the lives of seniors.

I've had constructive meetings with members from all parties, including members of the Bloc Québécois. I was open to suggestions.

(1250) We worked hard to improve before the second wave arrived. We all knew that a second wave was coming. We knew this based on the statistics at the height of the pandemic. In some provinces and territories, we were seeing a loss of control, weakened health care systems, a lack of available beds and staff fatigue. I want to quote a paragraph from page 5 of the report. When I read the paragraph, I thought that it was a key paragraph to share with you. I wasn't yet a committee member at the time of this statement:

Due to this unprecedented national effort, Canadians had effectively flattened the curve by the summer months. But the battle against COVID-19 was and remains far from over. On August 17, the day before prorogation, the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada, Dr. Theresa Tam, noted:

Our efforts indicate that we are keeping COVID-19 spread under manageable control but the virus is still circulating in Canada and we must not let down our guard. The shape of our national epidemic curve over time, including what impact COVID-19 might have this fall, will be influenced by our collective commitment and actions to keep infection rates low.

Despite what Dr. Tam was saying, despite our situation at the time and our semblance of control, something else happened. It's funny, but it happened in August, at the same time as the prorogation. We knew that there would be some respite over the summer, because of the good weather. We knew that there would be gatherings. We knew that there would be no more activities or family parties. We knew that, as members of Parliament, we would receive fewer invitations to celebrations and festivals of all kinds in our constituencies. We knew that these would disappear. However, we didn't have a crystal ball.

Then the prorogation of Parliament was announced. [ English ] Is it perfect timing? [ Translation ] In August, Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public health officer, said that we needed to be careful and to send clear messages to the public because we were between the first and second waves. Nothing was more relevant than Dr. Tam's warnings to show us that we needed to take a step back. If we had taken that step back at the start, we wouldn't have been able to say that the curve of the first wave was flattening out.

Flattening the curve of the first wave may have gotten us through the crisis, but you know very well how Canadian systems work. Our systems are very regulated, especially with respect to vaccine approval. That's a very good thing. At the time, we also knew that the solution—

(1255) [ English ]

Mrs. Karen Vecchio :

I have a point of order, Madam Chair. I know that we are getting close to the one o'clock spot. After speaking to some of the whips and some of the other party members on this call, we recognize that there will be other committees that need to be heard today as well. I would ask that we suspend this meeting for now and come back to this issue on Thursday when we're normally slotted into the time schedule.

The Chair :

We have four more minutes. Mr. Lauzon, is it okay with you if we suspend until Thursday? If it's okay with you, then I'll just ask if we have consensus and we can just suspend.

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

It's okay, as long as I start on Thursday because I have a little bit more to say.

The Chair :

I promise we will keep to the list and the same speaking order. One thing I want to mention is that Ms. Petitpas Taylor and Dr. Duncan had been booted off the system and the order changed from what you see. The order for Thursday would look like this: Monsieur Lauzon, Ms. Petitpas Taylor, Dr. Duncan and then Mr. Blaikie. That would be the speaking order for Thursday. We will suspend for today and reconvene on Thursday. Thank you. [ The meeting was suspended at 12:57 p.m., Tuesday, March 9 ] [ The meeting resumed at 11:01 a.m., Thursday, March 11 ]

(5900) The Chair :

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 26 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. Justin, how does this work? Do we still see the date as March 9, 2021, or is the date March 11, 2021?

The Clerk :

It is March 11. It is still technically meeting 26, however, a continuation of the meeting from two days ago.

The Chair :

Okay. I used to have some colleagues who would joke and say it was whatever time or whatever date you last left it at, but I think it makes more sense to just say it's still meeting 26 as we only suspended the last meeting. We are picking up from where we left off. Today's meeting, as always, is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25. Mr. Clerk, I believe nobody is there in person today. Is that correct?

The Clerk :

That's correct. No one is in the room.

The Chair :

Okay. I would just remind anybody who is in the room to keep the physical distancing that's necessary, to wear your non-medical masks when you're circulating in the room and when possible, even when seated, and to use the hand sanitizer that is provided there. The rest of us are participating virtually, unless we have somebody sub in who would be in person. I will be following along in the participants toolbar to see the order of hands raised, but we will pick up from where we left off last time and the order we left off.

If there are any points of order, please, as always, unmute your mike, raise the point of order to get my attention and then we'll hear your point of order. If somebody wants to speak to that point of order, they must raise their hand in the toolbar section. Don't forget to put your

interpretation on, if needed. You can choose the floor, French or English. You don't have to switch between the two, but I would suggest maybe a few seconds' pause between switching languages if you are going to switch from one to the other. That's basically it. Make sure your mikes are on mute when you're not speaking. We will pick up from where we left off. Mr. Clerk, I believe we were on Monsieur Lauzon. Then we have Ms. Petitpas Taylor, followed by Dr. Duncan, and you'll have to remind me after that. I think you have the rest of the list.

The Clerk :

That's right, Madam Chair. Mr. Lauzon has the floor, followed by Madame Petitpas Taylor, Dr. Duncan and Mr. Blaikie.

The Chair :

All right. You can keep your hands raised or you can unraise your hands, since we have you on the speakers list in the proper order. Sometimes when you get disconnected, which happened the last time and has happened many times before, your hand will automatically get dropped off the list, but we are trying to keep an accurate record so that we can see the difference. We're monitoring when that change happens. Of course, we're only human. It can be overlooked. Please raise a point of order if you think I have taken you out of the proper order you should be in. Mr. Lauzon, please go ahead. You have the floor.

(5905) Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Thanks, Madam Chair. [ Translation ] Good morning. Thank you to everyone for being here. Today is a momentous day. Each of our leaders and the Prime Minister commemorated the very reason that we are in Parliament and the reason that we must govern the country. They also highlighted just how strained our health care system is. That ties in with a comment I made at the last meeting. I said that our health care system was broken and strained.

As the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Seniors, I was deeply concerned about the challenges seniors have had to face throughout the pandemic, challenges they are still facing. The statements made by our leaders and the Prime Minister reminded us how important it was to move forward and respond. It was also important to take a step back in order to better anticipate the second wave of the pandemic. At the last meeting, I reiterated what the university professors had told us. They said that the recovery was essential to the way forward, that it was important to start from scratch.

We are all gathered today because certain members are trying to prove that the prorogation was not important. The evidence to the contrary is what our leaders and Prime Minister made very clear today: taking a step back is in our best interest so we can forge ahead smarter. Doing so benefits seniors and all Canadians. They have been hit hard by this unprecedented pandemic, which has been an exercise in learning, growing and making tough decisions. Let us now compare Canada with other countries. In some places, health care workers had to decide which patients would be allowed to die first.

Thanks to our health care system, things never got to that point in Canada, because we made sure the necessary machines and equipment were provided. Now, we are delivering vaccines. As the Prime Minister said, to get through this, we must work together. This is no time for politicking. Yes, we all got into politics to be politicians, but we are in the midst of a health crisis—a pandemic. Now is the time to turn the page, to prepare a report and to keep moving forward. Since the beginning, the intention has not been to examine the issue of prorogation and move forward.

The goal has been to show that the government prorogued Parliament for reasons other than addressing the pandemic. To put it mildly, I am still quite emotional after the remarks we heard today. Top of mind are all the families who have been affected and all the families who have lost loved ones—fathers, mothers and friends. We all know someone who has been affected by COVID-19. Some 20,000 Canadians have lost their lives. That is a lot of people. We owe it to them to do something. We owe it to them to set political games aside and forge ahead. That is how we will get through this.

The best thing the committee can do is turn the page, prepare a report based on all the comments it heard, and let staff get to the business of drafting a report and recommendations.

(5910) We can resume the discussion when we look at the recommendations. That would not only send a good message, but also allow us to move forward. We have a list of issues we need to address in short order. When it comes to the issues that will shape a potential election campaign, no committee plays a more important role than the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. I was impressed when I looked at the list of issues to be considered by the committee. I would very much like to help improve that list by adding issues that reflect today's reality, a reality that is totally different.

Barbara Messamore, from the University of the Fraser Valley, told the committee that a strong case could also be made that the unforeseen eruption of the COVID-19 crisis following the start of the 43rd Parliament provided a rationale for a new session, with a new Speech from the Throne setting out a fresh legislative program. All of that led to the throne speech, the springboard for our decision-making going forward. However many times the opposition parties hear that, it seems to make no difference. Their minds were made up before we began discussing the motion. That was clear from the rounds of questions.

The questions were subjective, implying that Parliament was prorogued for reasons that had nothing to do with the pandemic. Today, the best thing we can do is move on. Our team must work together for Canadians, so we can make progress on the issues that matter. The report on the 2020 prorogation of Parliament is the first of its kind. It marks the first time a government has submitted a report after proroguing Parliament. The government was under no obligation to do what it did. No other prime minister ever had to account for their decision to prorogue Parliament. We know the reasons behind past prorogations.

No other prime minister committed to providing a clear and specific explanation of the reasons behind prorogation. People can suspect plenty of things in politics. All kinds of things happen during a four-year term, and it's a different story when a minority government is in power. We know the government has a minority, but it was nevertheless elected by Canadians. The majority decided that Justin Trudeau and the Liberals would be the ones to govern Canada, like it or not. Now, we must work together to properly address people's needs further to the committee's decisions and recommendations.

(5915) Briefly, coming back to the report, I think it shows just how inappropriate the motion before us is. Bear in mind that our government changed the Standing Orders so that our and future governments would have an obligation to be transparent.

I would like to read from the report: “Pursuant to Standing Order 32(7), this report shall set out the reasons for the recent prorogation of Parliament.” It goes on to state the following: “In 2015, our government committed to changing the Standing Orders to ensure that ours and future federal governments remain transparent with Canadians in all aspects of governance, including the use of prorogation. This report is intended to provide parliamentarians, and all Canadians, with greater clarity about why our government prorogued Parliament in August 2020.”

Mr. Alain Therrien (La Prairie, BQ) :

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

Mr. Alain Therrien :

The honourable member was speaking in French, but I was hearing the English interpreter. Could we get that fixed, please?

[ English ]

The Chair :

In English...?

[ Translation ]

Mr. Alain Therrien :

Yes, I was hearing the English interpreter.

[ English ]

The Chair :

Yes. That can be distracting.

[ Translation ]

Mr. Alain Therrien :

Indeed.

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Is that better, Mr. Therrien? Can you hear me in French?

Mr. Alain Therrien :

Yes, it's fine now.

[ English ]

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Do you want me to speak in English now?

[ Translation ]

Mr. Alain Therrien :

No. Seldom do I hear someone speaking in French, so please continue, if you wouldn't mind, Mr. Lauzon.

[ English ]

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Thank you very much, Mr. Therrien.

[ Translation ]

Mr. Alain Therrien :

Your French is excellent, by the way.

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Thank you. I am a pure laine Quebecker, after all.

[ English ]

The Chair :

Thank you for alerting us. That usually solves the problem. Just the alert is usually enough. Thank you, Monsieur Therrien. Carry on, Mr. Lauzon.

[ Translation ]

Mr. Stéphane Lauzon :

Thank you. As I was saying, in 2015, we did not know a pandemic was coming. We did not know we would have to prorogue Parliament. It was the decision of a government that wanted to be transparent with Canadians and report on the reasons for prorogation after the fact. The pandemic hit, and nothing was more warranted than a report on the reasons for prorogation. I want to reiterate that the government had to get things on the right track and set out its priorities in a new throne speech, in response to the pandemic. The timing of the prorogation has been the subject of much debate. Was it the right time?

Was it too soon or too late? Why didn't the government prorogue Parliament when the pandemic began? Some have said that the government should have prorogued Parliament at the very beginning of the pandemic, without knowing all the implications, without knowing that people would die and without knowing the fate that awaited seniors. This debate is even more timely now because of the variants, the vaccines, and the distribution of vaccines in the provinces and territories. It would be appropriate to take a step back now as well. Let's imagine the government had prorogued Parliament at the beginning of the pandemic.

A huge amount of information was lacking then. All along, our government has said that it would base decisions on science and the advice of professionals. How could scientists and health care professionals have predicted the future—the declaration of a pandemic—if Parliament had been prorogued when the crisis first began? The timing of the prorogation may not have been perfect, but it was appropriate. In 2019, the government obtained the confidence of the members of Parliament in the House of Commons.

During the second half of 2020, it became clear that the 2019 throne speech no longer represented the context in which we would govern. What caused the change? The pandemic, of course. I repeat, the government did not have a crystal ball when it prepared its 2019 throne speech, which laid out its new policy directions. Then, suddenly, the pandemic struck, so different values and priorities had to guide us, as a government. That is a point I did not raise the last time the committee met, but I remembered it afterwards. We responded swiftly with tangible support for health care systems across the country.

On March 11, 2020, the Prime Minister announced $500 million in funding for the provinces and territories—an important decision to support health care all over the country. Some have claimed that the government did not provide health care support to certain provinces, and yet, no government has ever done as much for health care as this one. We worked closely with public health authorities to support health care systems and get equipment to those who needed it. We provided funding, ventilators and support for long-term care facilities, not to mention sending in the military and the Red Cross to help.

We were there for the provinces and territories. That sets the stage and summarizes the gist of my remarks at our last meeting, bringing me to what I want to say to you today. I want to talk about the supports and programs we introduced to help Canadians during the crisis, because we knew the second wave was coming.

(5920) I've been poring through the report since Tuesday, and I'd like to read an excerpt from page 4:

Due to this unprecedented national effort, Canadians had effectively flattened the curve by the summer months. But the battle against COVID-19 was and remains far from over. On August 17, the day before prorogation, the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada, Dr. Theresa Tam, noted: Our efforts indicate that we are keeping COVID-19 spread under manageable control but the virus is still circulating in Canada and we must not let down our guard. The shape of our national epidemic curve over time, including what impact COVID-19 might have this fall, will be influenced by our collective commitment and actions to keep infection rates low.

That last paragraph is the important part. Why? Because, if Dr. Tam had known then about the variants and their ramifications, or if she had been concerned about anything other than flattening the curve, she would have said so. Allow me to explain just how quickly the circumstances of the pandemic can change. In July, people got together more because of the warm weather. We all heard about gatherings in our ridings. There was a huge gathering of young people in my riding. People still gathered for weddings. All those events led to outbreaks that sent certain regions back into the red zone.

Nevertheless, no informed decision-making could have prevented that. No matter how much we told people to do all the right things—wash their hands, social distance and avoid gatherings outside their family bubbles—it was inevitable. On the whole, people have followed the guidelines. They have stuck it out during the pandemic. It is only a minority of people who have made it difficult to get the virus under control, given the alarming rate at which it spreads. When one person is infected, all of their contacts are at risk and they can bring the virus back to their households.

I want to take this opportunity to say that we should acknowledge the whole of our medical system. Essential workers were exposed to the virus every single day. They would come home after work and see their families, their children. Then, they would go back to work. All those doing essential work throughout the pandemic are brave people. They put themselves at risk, and some contracted the virus. The pandemic has been hard on all front-line workers, whether it be paramedics, police officers, grocery store employees or pharmacy staff, but they have never given up.

In the House this week, we talked about the supply chain. That includes not only the factory workers, but also the truckers who cross the border into the U.S., travelling all over to get Canadians the supplies they need. Supply shortages were a real possibility during the pandemic, but there was no such crisis. We never ran out of gas or staples like toilet paper. Everyone helped keep supply chains running throughout the pandemic, doing a good job of managing inputs and outputs to ensure adequate supply for Canada.

On page 5 of the report, the government talks about the importance of developing a plan and refocusing its priorities to face the second wave.

(5925) Furthermore, despite the success in flattening the curve in some regions of Canada, and our work to prepare for the fall, it was already clear in August that the colder months would bring new and more difficult challenges, for which we needed to prepare. As I explained, summer was ending and winter was on its way. We all know what happened. Medical experts from across Canada made it clear that the question was not whether there would be a second wave, but how bad it would be.

That's all from the report, further supporting the fact that the government stepped back to take stock to inform its decision-making. After the first wave, people were at the end of their ropes, they were tired, emergency rooms were full, and hospitals had no empty beds. Every hospital had built makeshift areas for patients. I toured two of them when I went for COVID-19 testing. Workers had used plastic to create makeshift isolation areas for people with COVID-19 symptoms. All the work was done in preparation for providing this care. Preparations had to be made.

No one could have ever anticipated the size of the second wave or its impact on the health care system. We had to get ready. No one knew how bad it would be. It was anticipated that some parts of the country would have to return to lockdown. That meant closing borders and posting police officers where zones intersected to check whether folks could cross from one zone to the other. My riding is mainly home to cottages and vacation properties. Whole neighbourhoods in a number of municipalities were deserted. Folks could not get to their cottages because of the lockdown.

Canadians lost their jobs because of lockdowns; businesses were forced to close, including restaurants. The tourism industry was hit hard. Tourists come to my riding to discover and enjoy the majesty of nature. Municipalities rely on tourism. With travel prohibited, tourists stopped coming to the area. It's tough to keep a tourism-based economy rolling without tourists. We knew that more Canadians would get sick or die. That was the worst part of the whole thing. We knew the second wave would take its course and that a vaccine was not yet available.

Five and a half months into this pandemic—the greatest challenge Canadians have faced since the Second World War—the people of Canada deserved to know that the federal government had a bold and comprehensive plan. There is nothing in the world more important than being able to tell Canadians what the government can and will do to help them through whatever challenge comes next. A pandemic does not come with an instruction manual. The government strives to make the best decisions possible. It also works with the other parties to come through the crisis as a team. I don't how it could be any clearer than that.

I don't know what more justification the opposition members want. I could spend hours more talking about the reasons for the prorogation and the importance of our work.

(5930) Now, I will let other members take the floor to continue this important debate. Later, I will explain my position further. Thank you.

[ English ]

The Chair :

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon. Go ahead, Ms. Petitpas Taylor. You're on mute. You'll have to start all over. No, I still can't hear you. This is the same problem I was having this morning. I was trying to do my sound check and even though I was unmuted, I couldn't be heard.

Mr. Ryan Turnbull :

Chair, I had the same problem yesterday and had to reboot my computer. It updated. It took an hour and a half, and today it's now working much better. I don't know, but it could be that. That's just a thought.

The Chair :

All I did was sign in and out, but you could probably.... Rather than that, let's hear from the clerk. He probably has some advice from IT. Maybe you could pull out your headphones and put them back in or something.

The Clerk :

Madam Chair, we're trying to figure out what that issue is because Madame Petitpas Taylor's audio was working fine when we were doing the sound check. Madame Petitpas Taylor, is it possible that on your headset, the cord for your headset, the little button, similar to what Mr. Lauzon is showing you...? There's a little button, and sometimes the mute gets hit on that.

Hon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor (Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, Lib.) :

Can you hear me now?

The Chair :

Yes, we can hear you. Thank you so much. I take your point, too, Dr. Duncan, that a lot of on-the-record time in the House and in our committees is going to be spent saying, “Am I on mute? Can you hear me?” I guess these are the times of COVID. Please, carry on.

Hon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor :

My sincere apologies about that. First and foremost, I want to say hello to all the members and a special welcome to Scott Simms for joining us today. Scott, we know you have a long history with PROC, and we really appreciate having you with us. I have to say to start off that I'm not as eloquent, perhaps, as Stéphane. I can't seem to talk as long, but I will certainly do my best in order to address this really important motion. I appreciate the comments that Stéphane and Ryan have made over the past while.

I have to say, as well, that I missed a few meetings because of the Board of Internal Economy, and I felt really bad about that, because I missed a part of the debate. Today I certainly want to continue on the theme that I spoke about last time, which was about how the opinion of the opposition as to why prorogation occurred has already been made up in their minds. I really want to address that. (5935) [ Translation ] To give Mr. Therrien a break, I will switch to French. We tend to speak in English, so Mr. Therrien has to listen to the interpreted remarks.

We appreciate the work the interpreters do, of course, but it can be tiring to always listen to people speaking in a language that is not your own. For that reason, I will make most of my comments in French. As an Acadian from New Brunswick, I enjoy speaking in my mother tongue. Turning back to the motion, I want to point out how many hours we have spent debating the motion put forward by our friend and fellow member Ms. Vecchio. Since many people are probably not familiar with the motion currently being debated, I feel the need to bring everyone up to speed. We are still discussing the same motion.

It bears rereading for those Canadians following our proceedings. Ms. Vecchio's motion reads as follows:

That, in respect of the Committee's study of the government's reasons for the prorogation of Parliament in August 2020, the Committee

(

a) renew the invitation issued to the Prime Minister to appear before the committee, provided that if he does not agree, within one week of the adoption of this motion, to appear for at least three hours, the Chair shall be instructed to report to the House forthwith a recommendation that this committee be empowered to order his appearance from time to time;

(

b) renew the invitations issued to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance and the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, each to appear separately before the committee, provided that in respect of each of them who does not agree, within one week of the adoption of this motion, to appear for at least 90 minutes each, the Chair shall be instructed to report to the House forthwith a recommendation that this committee be empowered to order her appearance from time to time;

(

c) renew the invitations issued to the Honourable Bill Morneau, Katie Telford, Craig Kielburger and Marc Kielburger, each to appear separately before the committee, provided that in respect of each of them who does not agree, within one week of the adoption of this motion, to appear for at least three hours each, a summons do issue for his or her appearance before the Committee at a date and time determined by the Chair but no later than one month following the adoption of this motion;

(

d) renew the invitations issued to Farah Perelmuter and Martin Perelmuter, to appear before the committee, provided that if they do not agree, within one week of the adoption of this motion, to appear for at least 90 minutes, a summons do issue for their appearance before the Committee at a date and time determined by the Chair but no later than one month following the adoption of this motion;

(

e) issue an order for the production of all memoranda, e-mails, text messages, documents, notes or other records from the Prime Minister's Office and the Privy Council Office, since June 25, 2020, concerning options, plans and preparations for the prorogation of Parliament, including polling and public opinion research used to inform the decision to prorogue Parliament, provided that these documents shall be provided to the clerk of the committee within two weeks of the adoption of this motion;

(

f) issue an order for the production of records of all communications between the government and any of WE Charity (or its affiliated organizations), Craig Kielburger, Marc Kielburger, or Speakers' Spotlight, since June 25, 2020, in respect of the prorogation of Parliament, provided that these documents shall be provided to the clerk of the committee within two weeks of the adoption of this motion;

(

g) issue orders to WE Charity (including its affiliated organizations), Craig Kielburger, Marc Kielburger and Speakers' Spotlight for the production of all memoranda, e-mails, text messages, documents, notes or other records, since June 25, 2020, concerning the prorogation of Parliament, provided that these documents shall be provided to the clerk of the committee within two weeks of the adoption of this motion; and

(

h) all documents provided to the clerk of the committee in respect of paragraphs (

e) to (

g) shall be published on the committee's website as soon as practical upon receipt, once they are available in both official languages.

That is the motion we have been debating for a few meetings now. The last time I had an opportunity to comment, I mentioned that we had been studying the matter of prorogation for several weeks. We heard from a number of experts and academics on the issue. On top of that, Pablo Rodriguez and public servants appeared before the committee on the reasons that led to the prorogation of Parliament. I believe my fellow members already made this point, but if a health crisis of this magnitude is not a good enough reason to prorogue Parliament, I am at a loss to understand what is.

I also want to say the opposition had preconceived ideas about the reasons for prorogation. I read a number of comments made by opposition members last time. I have to tell you I was on duty in the House this week to take

part in a debate that had been extended, and I was one of the lucky ones who got to participate in the debate that evening. Opposition members once again brought up WE Charity in relation to the reasons that led to the prorogation of Parliament. The opposition members, the Conservative members, in particular, had their minds made up about why the government prorogued Parliament, when in fact, the reasons are the opposite. In 2019, during the last election campaign, I knocked on thousands of doors, and my constituents told me what their priorities were. I often shared my ideas with friends and fellow members.

The throne speech delivered in 2019 did indeed reflect the priorities of the government and those of Canadians. As we all know, things changed completely in 2020. For the first time, we were confronted with a global public health crisis, in addition to a global economic crisis. That was the case, not just in Canada, but also around the world. The priorities of Canadians changed, and the government had to change course. Naturally, certain themes overlapped, but the government had to rethink its priorities and figure out how to better support Canadians.

(5940) As I said, the opposition members have already made up their minds. I'd like to quote a few people I quite admire. The first is my friend and the member for Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock . Mr. Schmale was on the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs in 2015, 2016 and 2017, and he is someone I have always held in high regard. Here's what he said:

I do not think it is any secret that the Prime Minister, we all know, decided to prorogue Parliament because of his involvement in the WE Charity scandal. Following the words of the Governor General, there was absolutely nothing in the Prime Minister's address last night on prime time that could not have been announced in any normal press briefing or even here on the floor of the House of Commons. The Prime Minister, of course, as many are saying, pulled the wool over the eyes of our network executives, claiming that it was not partisan politics but an address to the nation on COVID-19.

We all know, after the fact, that the address was entirely political, providing further evidence that prorogation was all about distraction.

Once again, the honourable members are telling us that all the witnesses I listed need to come before the committee, but they have already made up their minds. When I read that statement, when I hear the member say that the Prime Minister's address was entirely political and meant as a distraction, I do not agree. The Prime Minister spoke to Canadians every day during the pandemic. This is not about politics. Constituents in my riding told me that they would tune in every morning at 11:30 to hear what the Prime Minister and our government were doing to help them. I dare say everybody probably did; I know I did.

I would be working at my computer and making calls, but I also wanted to hear the daily update because it gave us hope. It wasn't about politics. When I would take my walks in the park, not far from here, people would stop me because they recognized their member of Parliament, and they would thank me for the job we were doing and the support we were providing. It was not part of the 2019 throne speech, because we didn't know a crisis was coming, but people were truly thankful for the work we did. Was it perfect? No, absolutely not. We didn't have a manual or guidelines on how to manage the crisis.

With input and suggestions from all the parties, we were able to introduce solid programs. Accordingly, when I hear someone call the decision to prorogue Parliament entirely political, I disagree. The throne speech is not about politics. Yes, some of the themes in the 2019 and 2020 throne speeches overlapped, but the 2020 throne speech contained measures specifically tied to the pandemic. I would also like to quote the member for Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola , who had this to say:

The Prime Minister prorogued the House to avoid scrutiny on his WE scandal. We all know this. The day after prorogation, the government announced these benefits, several of which would need legislation. Instead of spending time over the last month debating and passing these benefits, the Prime Minister shut down Parliament. Now that the CERB has ended and many Canadians are not eligible for EI, the government is playing politics with the well-being of Canadians.

Much has been said about the prorogation of Parliament, as we have all heard, but I think we lost less than two sitting days in the House. Our government took the time to rethink its priorities and set out guidelines to support Canadians throughout the biggest health crisis of our lifetimes.

(5945) The last person I'd like to quote is Mr. Bezan, the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman . On October 5, Mr. Bezan said this:

The only reason we had prorogation by the Prime Minister, since the throne speech is so uninspiring, is the WE scandal. It was not about resetting the agenda; it was about trying to do a cover-up and ensuring the opposition parties could not continue to litigate the government about its scandal and the almost billion dollars it was going to hand over to the WE Charity.

Once again, it's a bit much to call the throne speech uninspiring and to say that it was not about resetting the agenda. Let's look at the differences between the 2019 throne speech and the 2020 throne speech. The opposition likes to say that the 2020 throne speech was not about resetting the agenda and that it was essentially more of the same. I carefully read both speeches and compared them. Certainly, some themes overlap, including climate change. Just because we are going through a health crisis does not mean we should stop addressing the climate crisis.

In 2019, our key priorities and areas of focus revolved around the fight against climate change. When I was knocking on people's doors and making calls during the last election campaign, I was shocked by how many seniors were adamant that the government do something about climate change. Even though they had not been familiar with the issue or considered it a priority before, they told me their kids and grandkids had taught them about the importance of climate change. They felt strongly that the government needed to do the right thing and meet its targets. Climate change remained a priority in 2019.

We took ambitious action to make sure we met our targets. Another issue people cared about was greening the economy. We want to be sure we make those investments. If I'm not mistaken, the government talked about implementing a roadmap in its 2019 throne speech. Strengthening the middle class was also a key issue for people. As a member of Parliament since 2015, I am very proud of the measures we have taken between then and now to support the middle class and Canadians in need.

All of those actions have made a real difference in the lives of Canadians, whether it be introducing the Canada child benefit or lowering taxes. We can't just stop strengthening the middle class now. Those efforts have to continue. Walking the road of reconciliation is an important focus as well. We must continue moving forward as a partner with indigenous peoples to meet our respective goals. That means working together. Indigenous peoples must show us the path to take, and we must work hand in hand to make sure we get there. Lastly, keeping Canadians safe and healthy remains a top priority.

That includes addressing gun violence. Many constituents told us how important it was that the government do something. Coming from a social work background and having worked on the front lines, I saw the devastating impact guns can have. I'm not proud to admit that New Brunswick has the highest rates of domestic violence and murder-suicide in the country. There is a long way to go to make things better, and we will keep up that work.

(5950) Another challenge, it seems, is consistent right across the country. Here, in Atlantic Canada, a lot of us have trouble getting a doctor. Our government made a promise to Canadians, who told us they wanted everyone to have access to a family doctor. That, too, is a priority. It ties in with pharmacare. I know my fellow member Mr. Blaikie is in favour of a universal pharmacare plan, like many of us. That is a priority for Canadians. As health minister, I had the privilege of working on that file. We made progress and we will continue working to make sure all Canadians have access to national pharmacare.

I could, of course, read the 2019 throne speech in full. Instead of going through it page by page, I'll stick to the broad strokes to highlight the differences between the 2019 and 2020 throne speeches. I just talked about the 2019 throne speech, which was prepared prior to the pandemic. It is 2021 now, and like most of you, I have spent the past year almost exclusively in my riding. I had an opportunity to travel to Ottawa once, but here, in New Brunswick—

(5955) [ English ]

Mrs. Karen Vecchio :

On a point of order, Madam Chair, I have really appreciated all the comments coming from all of our Liberal colleagues and their sharing with us the devastating impacts that we are all aware of with COVID. I wonder if we can get back to the actual motion at hand again. We seem to have gone very far out, and I'm wondering if we can bring it back to the actual motion. We seem to be speaking a lot about the throne speech and going into other matters there, which is fine, but perhaps we could get back to the motion.

Perhaps there are some clarifications specifically on what they don't want to see when they look at the motion and who they don't want to appear. Maybe there's some actual information on that. Perhaps we could get back to the motion and why they want to vote against it, rather than everything else. Thanks.

The Chair :

I'll remind the member to stay on point, although I think she was talking about the issue of prorogation. Also, to all the members, as we know this is not our first meeting with a lot of interest and lengthy debate on this motion. I'm hoping that perhaps the members can talk about maybe eventually either coming to a vote or having some kind of agreement on the motion. We will continue to hear from the members. Hopefully, there are some proposals that are put forward at some point. I do also—

Mr. Daniel Blaikie (Elmwood—Transcona, NDP) :

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. On that same point of order, it is difficult to make proposals. Liberal members are speaking a lot and not making proposals. I've been on the speaking list for some time. It's hard to make proposals when you don't have the floor. I would remind committee members of that.

The Chair :

That is absolutely noted, Mr. Blaikie. You are on the list after Dr. Duncan today. I will allow, obviously, Ms. Petitpas Taylor, to carry on with her remarks. Thank you for all of your contributions. One more thing, though, there is a subcommittee meeting after the scheduled time of this meeting today at 1:15 p.m. That's the Subcommittee on Private Members' Business. I know it's important to all of our members to make sure that private members' business can continue forward. Hopefully, we can address that closer to the end time. If there is agreement, again, you can let me know at that point.

Mrs. Karen Vecchio :

On a point of order, Madam Chair, I fully recognize the issue with the subcommittee. That is really important. Because I recognize that this will be another day of filibustering, I know there is very little change in today's

schedule as well as the subcommittee business for members. It is relevant for the work that needs to be done on April 14. We do have ample time, just in case we do need to reschedule that as well. I want to keep it just as a side note in the next hour that we could perhaps look at doing that at another time. We do luckily have some time on this. Thank you.

The Chair :

Thank you. Ms. Petitpas Taylor, go ahead. You have the floor.

[ Translation ]

Hon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor :

Thank you, Madam Chair. In response to Mr. Blaikie's comment, I would just point out that I was on the speaking list for a while and I have quite a bit to say. Patience can wear thin sometimes, but I do understand the process can be long. Ms. Duncan also has things she would like to say. We are eager to hear what everyone has to say. I will circle back to the motion now. To be honest, I think my comments were relevant to the motion because I was talking about the preconceived opinions of the opposition members. I simply expressed my position, which is that the government had valid reasons to seek prorogation.

It was useful. The issue is not whether the throne speech was inspiring or not. The issue is whether it demonstrates a rethinking of goals and priorities. I know the committee has to hear what everyone has to say, so I will try to be succinct. We certainly want to make sure everyone has an opportunity to speak. Briefly, I am going to run through what I consider to be the highlights of the 2020 throne speech, which opened the session of Parliament after prorogation.

Although I think everything in the throne speech is important, the part that's really crucial pertains to how the government will protect Canadians during a potential second wave of the pandemic. The recollection of some may be wanting, but at the time, we were extremely concerned about the second wave. It may not have been quite the same for those of us living in Atlantic Canada, but the second wave took a great toll on many ridings and provinces. Our government wanted to be there for Canadians and for small and medium-sized businesses. We wanted to make sure businesses could remain open.

As I said, the government built its approach around themes, while keeping the focus on helping Canadians through the second wave. As a government, we wanted to make sure the programs and supports were in place to build back better. The idea was not to rebuild by replicating what existed previously; we had suitable programs, but we now know some of them had gaps. Now seems like the right time to review the programs and tailor them more effectively to people's needs, so we can really help people, especially vulnerable Canadians. Not all Canadians enjoy the same privileges.

We want to make sure everyone gets their fair share and has an equal opportunity to succeed. That is one of my top priorities, and it's also