OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD)

House of Commons Debates VOLUME 147 NUMBER 006 2nd SESSION 41st PARLIAMENT Wednesday, October 23, 2013 Speaker: The Honourable Andrew Scheer HOUSE OF COMMONS CANADA (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) COMMONS DEBATES October 23, 2013 DEBATES Edited Hansard * Table of Contents * Number 006 (Official Version) Official Report * Table of Contents * Number 006 (Official Version) Compte rendu officiel * Table des matières * Numéro 006 (Version officielle) 147 006 23 10 2013 2013/10/23 14:05:00 House of Commons Débats de la Chambre des communes House of Commons Debates 41 2

The House met at 2 p.m. Prayers

Statements by Members (1405) [ English ] The Speaker : It being Wednesday, we will now have the singing of the national anthem, led by the hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue . [ Members sang the national anthem ] STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS Statements by Members [ English ] Aerospace Industry Mr. Jay Aspin (Nipissing—Timiskaming, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to inform the House of an important event in my riding in two weeks.

On November 8, North Bay will host an aerospace forum to bring companies and suppliers together with industry and government to grow our region with investment in the aerospace sector. As a result of the Emerson report, our government will strengthen this industry. This $22-billion sector employs nearly 70,000 Canadians with highly skilled well-paying jobs. North Bay has a deep and proud history with respect to aerospace. It is home of NORAD, CFB 22 Wing, and Canadore aviation training. Our forum will showcase our region's assets to attract investment to our part of rural Canada.

I applaud our government for looking to the future and laying the groundwork for aerospace investment with the Emerson report and economic action plan 2013. We are going to move forward, create jobs and grow the economy in Nipissing—Timiskaming.

Repatriation of Canadians Detained in Egypt Ms. Irene Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to welcome home Dr. Tarek Loubani and Mr. John Greyson. Their detention caused great concern for all Canadians during the 50 days they spent behind bars at Cairo's Tora prison. Tarek is an emergency room physician in London, Ontario, and John is an acclaimed filmmaker and professor. Their unlawful arrest sparked an amazing campaign led by the families, colleagues and community supporters of John and Tarek.

When they finally landed on Canadian soil on October 12, we were all profoundly relieved. I would like to thank all those who contributed to their release: their families who campaigned so tirelessly; NDP consular affairs critic, Wayne Marston ; and NDP foreign affairs critic, Paul Dewar . Most of all, I would like— The Speaker : Order, please. I just need to remind the hon. member to refrain from using proper names in her statement. Even if she is quoting something, we are still to observe that protocol. The hon. member for London—Fanshawe. Ms. Irene Mathyssen : Mr.

Speaker, I would like to thank John and Tarek for keeping their spirits and hopes up during a traumatic time for them both. They are clearly special Canadians who inspired great pride and determination in their fellow citizens. I am very pleased to be joining the rest of Canada in welcoming John and Tarek home.

Canada-Europe Trade Agreement Mrs. Kelly Block (Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, all across Saskatchewan, communities are coming together by holding their annual fall and fowl suppers. These events are a wonderful time for friends, families, and neighbours to get together and share from the increase of their fields and gardens. This year, rural Saskatchewan and in particular our farmers have much to celebrate. In our region of the country, we were blessed with great growing weather and a dry, hot fall, which have helped to produce a bumper crop this harvest. As a result, farmers are very optimistic.

However, now farmers have even more reason to be optimistic. The Canada–Europe trade agreement signed by our Prime Minister last week will expand market opportunities for products produced by farmers and ranchers, not only in Saskatchewan but all across Canada, creating more jobs and economic growth in our rural communities. This is great news for our producers.

P.E.I. Marathon Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, I take this opportunity to extend my congratulations to the winners of the P.E.I. marathon this past Sunday. The top male and female marathoners both come from my riding. I know Malpeque oysters are great, but I do not believe they are the only reason these two runners won. Kris Taylor, a native of New Glasgow, came in first overall for his first-ever marathon win, while Jen Nicholson from Cornwall was the top women's marathoner. Jen also holds the course records for both the full and the half marathon.

Kris's and Jen's strong showings demonstrate a commitment to their sport, and their successes provide models of athletic accomplishment for all Islanders and all Canadians. In addition, I want to congratulate and thank all runners who took up the challenge to participate, with representation from every province but one and runners from around the world. We thank them for promoting fitness and healthy lifestyles. Every runner should take pride in his or her accomplishment. I say congratulations.

(1410) Agriculture Mr. Ray Boughen (Palliser, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, this past summer, my riding was host to a family farm celebration of the first anniversary of marketing freedom for farmers in western Canada after 70 years of single-desk control. Approximately 200 farmers gathered at the family farm of Jim and Levi Wood in Pense to celebrate being able to sell their grain at the time of their choosing. The opposition projected doom and gloom upon the demise of the wheat board, but it appears that the vast majority of producers have experienced benefits. I have good reason to say that.

According to the survey done by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, 81% of farmers reported a positive impact. One producer summed it up best when he said he “has better cash flow, logistics control, and the sky didn't fall.” With marketing freedom, bumper crops, and good prices over the long term, farmers have many reasons to smile across western Canada.

Newfoundland and Labrador Mr. Ryan Cleary (St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, coming from Newfoundland and Labrador, I love a good laugh, which is often found in the most unexpected of places. Take last week's Speech from the Throne, for example, and this little gem of a line, “Our Government has supported fishermen by ensuring proper management of fish stocks”. Yes, the best lines are always delivered with a straight face. Today there is a demonstration in Grand Bank on Newfoundland's south coast over the closure of the Fisheries and Oceans office that was there for decades.

Last month DFO shut down the library in St. John's. Proper management at DFO means eliminating whatever it is it manages. How about this quote about the oil industry? “Our Government will...[s]et higher safety standards for companies operating offshore”. In that case, where is the independent safety regulator for the offshore oil industry? That was the number one recommendation from the Wells inquiry into the 2009 crash of Cougar Flight 491. We do so love a good laugh, but not when the punchline is always Newfoundland and Labrador.

American Veterans of Royal Canadian Air Force Hon. Laurie Hawn (Edmonton Centre, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, for going on two centuries, Canadians and Americans have crossed the 49th parallel to take up the fight of their neighbour. Nine thousand Americans served in the Royal Canadian Air Force in World War II, and 764 made the ultimate sacrifice in the cause of freedom. Yesterday I had the great honour of representing Canada at the Virginia War Memorial for the unveiling of a plaque to honour the memories of 16 sons of Virginia who died in the service of RCAF Bomber Command.

I joined Virginia Governor Robert McDonnell, military and civilian leadership, veterans, and families of the fallen 16 to unveil a stone tablet with aluminum crests of the Commonwealth of Virginia and the RCAF. What made it more special was that the aluminum came from Halifax LW682, shot down over Belgium in 1944 and only recovered in 1997. Courage and sacrifice know no boundaries. The world is a better place because Canadians and Americans have stood together in troubled times. The ties that bind Canada and the United States have been forged in common cause and the blood of our sons and daughters.

Lest we forget.

International Trade Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton—Melville, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the constituents of Yorkton—Melville, Saskatchewan, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate the Prime Minister for reaching an agreement in principle on the comprehensive economic and trade agreement with the European Union. Having had the distinct privilege of working alongside our Prime Minister , I am proud to be a part of a team that can bring such abundant opportunity to this great country.

This historic agreement opens up trade with 28 member states, 500 million people, and an annual economic activity of almost $17 trillion, and all Canadians stand to reap significant benefits in jobs, economic growth, and prosperity. Twenty years ago this week, I arrived in Ottawa as the member of Parliament for Yorkton—Melville, wet behind the ears and eager to make a difference in this country, to make it a better place in which to raise our children, to provide our kids and grandkids with a better future. Today, I can honestly say that under the leadership of our Prime Minister , we are accomplishing just that.

[ Translation ] Government of Canada Mr. José Nunez-Melo (Laval, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, last Sunday in Laval, at the impressive unveiling of an Armenian memorial monument, which means "hope" and is very important to the Canadian-Armenian community, I had the opportunity to listen to my constituents' concerns about the actions of this government. Believe me when I say that these complaints are no different from those we receive in the mail on a regular basis. EI reform is the top concern for Canadians. This is followed by other issues such as the environment, public safety, housing, and consumer protection.

Every time the Conservatives boast they have achieved something positive, the response is overwhelmingly negative. In Laval, the unemployment rate has risen from 6.1% to 7.4% since June 2011. When it comes to the environment and natural resources or the Senate, we get the same do-nothing policies. When will we get a responsible government?

(1415) [ English ] Employment Insurance Mr. Scott Armstrong (Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, it speaks volumes that the NDP continues to say one thing about the temporary foreign workers program in public while in private they ask for more and more temporary foreign workers to be poured into their ridings. Yesterday, the member for Acadie—Bathurst was quoted in Fredericton's The Daily Gleaner as advocating for better employment insurance benefits for temporary foreign workers in his riding. Last month in Atlantic Canada, there were 11,000 unemployed Canadians.

Employers in regions with near double-digit unemployment should not have to look to other countries to get employees. Our government has made modest and reasonable changes to employment insurance to help keep Canadians attached to the workforce and better connect unemployed Canadians with the available jobs in their local areas, jobs that match their skills. We want all Canadians in all regions to benefit from economic growth. Why does the member for Acadie—Bathurst and his NDP colleagues continue to prefer that these jobs go to temporary foreign workers before they go to Canadians?

Affordable Housing Ms. Chris Charlton (Hamilton Mountain, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, winter is fast approaching. For women who are homeless, the impending freezing nights may well be fatal. Many are simply the victims of poverty or domestic violence. On any given night, in my hometown of Hamilton, at least 10,000 women are at risk of becoming homeless. More than 300 are turned away from shelters every single month, and we have 5,450 households waiting for affordable housing, mostly women-led. More shelter beds are important, but they are not the answer. We need social and affordable housing.

It is not just a key social investment; it makes economic sense, too. To keep a homeless person in a shelter costs almost $2,000 per month,

whereas a subsidized housing unit costs $200 per month. This year's budget promised $253 million for housing, but it still has not been allocated. Long-term housing agreements with the provinces are expiring, but nothing new is in the works. We have not had a national housing program since the Liberals axed them in 1995. With close to 200,000 Canadians homeless, we need national action for this national crisis. November 22 is National Housing Day. Let us give meaning to the day and act on housing now.

Canadian Union of Postal Workers Mr. Stephen Woodworth (Kitchener Centre, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, on October 15, CRTC fined the Canadian Union of Postal Workers $50,000 for breaking the law. Kitchener Centre residents were disturbed throughout May and June by robocalls announcing the closure of a Canada Post location. The robocalls did not provide a name, address, or phone number where they could be tracked. I was personally misrepresented when constituents were informed that I had approved the closure of the downtown location. This decision was actually made by Canada Post after a month-long consultation.

In fact, no decision had even been made to close the post office when this false information was given out. My constituents were upset by the calls and had no way of tracking the originator. Even if union bosses take their partisan cues from the NDP, their union members and the public deserve better from CUPW. I ask CUPW to apologize to their Kitchener members and to Kitchener residents for their undemocratic way of proceeding.

Citizenship and Immigration Hon. John McCallum (Markham—Unionville, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, family matters. Day after day, time after time, our reliance on families makes our successes better and our struggles less severe. Many families rely on their parents to provide child care, which has become especially important after the Conservatives and New Democrats teamed up to kill the Liberal national child care program. However, the Conservative minister for multiculturalism thinks differently. Recently he called the parents and grandparents of immigrant Canadians a burden.

Parents and grandparents are not a burden on our society; they make our lives richer, fuller. Their help around the home helps us be more productive members of Canadian society. Their presence in Canada means that new Canadians no longer have to send money out of the country to support their parents. The government's view is shameful. Canadians deserve better.

(1420) [ Translation ] Elections Canada Mr. Bernard Trottier (Etobicoke—Lakeshore, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, Canadian values such as decency and equality call for individuals to take responsibility for their debts. Strangely enough, the candidates who lost their bid to lead the Liberal Party do not seem to believe that that principle applies to them. Recently, a lawyer for defeated candidate and former MP Ken Dryden crowed that Dryden would not even attempt to pay back the money owing. Elections Canada knows and openly admits to knowing that the loan will never be repaid.

Elections Canada says that it does not have the authority to investigate loans given to candidates who lost the Liberal leadership race. The current legislation authorizes the Commissioner of Canada Elections to investigate whether loans were used to circumvent donation limits. There needs to be an inquiry into whether Liberals used loans to intentionally exceed the legal donation limits. What is keeping Elections Canada from conducting such an inquiry? I am calling for Elections Canada to shed some light on this for Canadians.

[ English ] Ethics Mr. Craig Scott (Toronto—Danforth, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, yesterday Canadians were stunned by Mike Duffy's speech to the Senate. They heard about a government being forced to face its deceit and an institution sinking under the weight of its corruption, just when Canadians thought Liberal Party and Liberal senator corruption were as bad as things could get. Members will recall the conviction and imprisonment of former Liberal Senator Lavigne and the conveniently timed resignation of Senator Mac Harb, and note the new allegations against a Liberal senator only yesterday.

Then along came the Conservatives to lower the bar even further. Giving money to a sitting parliamentarian to ensure his silence is a crime. Engaging in a conspiracy to bribe a public official is a crime. Mike Duffy has now said more in public about the whole affair than the Prime Minister . Canadians deserve better. Canadians are watching. Will the Prime Minister finally rise in his place and start telling Canadians the truth?

International Trade Mr. James Lunney (Nanaimo—Alberni, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, Canadians from coast to coast are speaking out in support of the historic Canada-Europe trade agreement. The B.C. Wine Institute has understood that “there's opportunity” because of the eliminated tariffs. The Grain Growers of Canada have said that this agreement means “big gains for farmers”. The door is open for increased fish and seafood exports. The Canadian Bankers Association recognizes that we preserve the “right to protect the stability and integrity of the financial sector”.

It is a wonder why the leader of the NDP has said that “there's going to be a hell of a price to pay” for trade with Europe. On this side of the House, we recognize the importance of opening new markets for Canadians. A new market of 28 nations and half a billion consumers represents great opportunity for Canadian producers. Why does the NDP continue with its anti-trade agenda and its perpetual opposition to every trade opportunity?

ORAL QUESTIONS Oral Questions [ Translation ] Ethics Hon. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, on February 13, did the Prime Minister threaten Mike Duffy with expulsion from the Senate? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I will repeat what I have said from the beginning. [ English ] I told Mr. Duffy, when he asked, in fact, I told our entire caucus and staff, that my view was that his expense claims were inappropriate, and they should be repaid. At that particular time did I threaten him with expulsion?

No, but when inappropriate expense claims are made, I expect corrective action to be taken. If it is not taken, a person who does not take corrective action could not expect to continue to sit as a member of the Conservative Party.

(1425) Hon. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, on February 13, did the Prime Minister tell Mike Duffy, “It's not about what you did; it's about the perception of what you did....The rules are inexplicable to our base”? Did he say that, yes or no? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, no, I absolutely did not say that. This issue is not a matter of perception. What I said to our caucus, and I said to the caucus as a whole when this issue came up, was that “You cannot claim an expense you did not incur. That is not right.

That is not proper, and that will not be tolerated in this party”. Hon. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, on May 28, the Prime Minister said that he had never given any instructions to his staff on how to resolve the problem of Mike Duffy's expenses. Was Nigel Wright present when the Prime Minister instructed Mike Duffy to repay his expenses, end of discussion? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, once again, I have indicated that I made these statements in a caucus room. I made them to an entire caucus and senior staff, not just to Mr. Duffy and to Mr.

Wright but to many others who were present and who heard them. Those instructions were absolutely clear. I expected Mr. Duffy to repay his expenses and not Mr. Wright to repay them for him. That was also not correct, which is why Mr. Wright is no longer working for me and why Mr. Duffy is no longer in the Senate. [ Translation ] Hon. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, did anyone in the Prime Minister 's Office or in his cabinet, at any time, inform Mike Duffy that his expenses were illegal? [ English ] Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr.

Speaker, let me correct my previous statement. I meant to say that Mr. Duffy is no longer in our Senate caucus. [ Translation ] This is not a cabinet issue. I clearly told our caucus and our staff that Mr. Duffy's expenses were completely inappropriate. You cannot claim an expense that you did not incur. That is not right. You cannot remain a member of the Conservative caucus after that kind of behaviour. [ English ] Hon. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, now that he has had some practise correcting his previous statements, let us try again.

On June 5 and 6, when I asked the Prime Minister whether Ray Novak was involved in the Duffy affair, the Prime Minister said that Nigel Wright acted alone. Was that true? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I addressed this issue some months ago. Mr. Wright has been absolutely clear in terms of who he told he intended to repay Mr. Duffy's expenses to. He did not say Ray Novak was one of those people. He has named those people. He has been very clear. He has also been very clear that one of those people was not me, because I obviously would never have approved such a scheme. Mr.

Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, leaders take responsibility. The Prime Minister appointed Mike Duffy— Some hon. members: Oh, oh! The Speaker : Order, please. The hon. member for Papineau.

(1430) Mr. Justin Trudeau : Mr. Speaker, leaders take responsibility. The Prime Minister hired Nigel Wright. The Prime Minister appointed Mike Duffy. The Prime Minister has daily meetings with a team that, as we are discovering, has been working for months to cover up a scandal. Does the Prime Minister still refuse to take any personal responsibility for what has happened? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, obviously, I reject the

preamble of that question. The reality is we are talking about the actions of Mr. Wright and Mr. Duffy. They are being held accountable for those actions. Mr. Wright has accepted his responsibility. He has admitted that his actions were not appropriate. Unfortunately, Mr. Duffy continues to assert that his expense claims were all valid and all appropriate. We obviously disagree with that and believe he should be held accountable for that behaviour. Mr. Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Lib.) : Mr.

Speaker, regrettably, for months now the Prime Minister has refused to answer even the most basic questions on the scandal that has engulfed his office. The Prime Minister's silence has shaken Canadians' trust in him and in their government. Will the Prime Minister agree to testify under oath to reveal everything he knows about this scandal and the cover-up? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I have been crystal clear about this. I continue to be so. It is interesting.

We, of course, insisted that those who are responsible be held accountable for their actions, unlike the hon. leader opposite. The very first thing he said was he thought that Mac Harb should be readmitted to the Liberal caucus. We obviously do not believe that kind of behaviour is appropriate. [ Translation ] Mr. Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister appointed Mike Duffy and hired Nigel Wright. He has daily meetings with a team that has been working for months to cover up this sordid affair.

The Prime Minister has to show leadership and take responsibility for the actions of the people he chose. Will the Prime Minister agree to testify under oath? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, when we appoint senators, we expect them to follow the rules and obey the letter and the spirit of the law. [ English ] When any member or members of staff do not respect high ethical conduct, we expect them to recognize that and to correct their behaviour and be held accountable. Mr. Wright has accepted his responsibility. He resigned. Mr.

Duffy continues to insist that there is nothing wrong with his behaviour. We obviously disagree and believe he should be held accountable for it. Hon. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, last June the Prime Minister said in the House that no one other than Nigel Wright was aware of the scheme to buy Mike Duffy's silence. It turns out that 13 top Conservative officials were very much aware. Who are the 13 top Conservative officials who were aware of the scheme to buy Mike Duffy's silence? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, as I say, Mr.

Wright has addressed that particular question directly. The number he cites is obviously not the number that Mr. Wright has said. Mr. Wright has said very clearly that this was a decision he took using his own resources. He did not seek permission or consultation with others. He did say who he informed, but he has taken full responsibility for his actions and he is being held accountable for them. Hon. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, actually, what the Prime Minister told the House, and told Canadians, was that no one else knew about it.

We now know that that was false. [ Translation ] Is the Prime Minister saying that 13 Conservatives in his inner circle did not keep him informed and allowed him to make false statements to Parliament in spite of himself? They never set him straight. If that is true, why did he not kick them out? Why are they still there? I would like him to explain that. Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, Mr. Wright has already answered that question very clearly. He did not name 13 individuals. He said that he made the decision on his own using his own resources.

He admitted that he made a bad decision. He took full responsibility and is being held accountable for his actions.

(1435) Hon. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, did the Prime Minister order or approve of the Senate motion to suspend Senator Brazeau, Senator Wallin, and Senator Duffy? [ English ] Did the Prime Minister play any role? Did he order or take

part in the motion to have Mike Duffy, Patrick Brazeau, and Pamela Wallin suspended from the Senate? Yes or no? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that this is a motion that the Senate leadership had approved by the Conservative Senate caucus. Let me be unequivocal for the record. I fully support that motion. I do not believe that, under the circumstances, these individuals should be on the public payroll. I believe that in private life, had they undertaken such actions, they would not continue to be on the payroll. I believe Canadians feel strongly about this. Hon.

Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, will the Prime Minister repeat in the House today what he has already said, that his lawyer, Ben Perrin, played absolutely no role in this entire Mike Duffy affair? Will he repeat that today? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, what I have said in the House is that Mr. Perrin has made a statement on his own behalf in terms of his actions. Mr. Wright has also been very clear on this as well. To be absolutely clear, once again, any assertion that I was in any way consulted or had any knowledge of Mr. Wright's payment to Mr.

Duffy is categorically false. Had I known about it, I would not have permitted it. As soon as I knew about it, on May 15, I revealed it to the public. [ Translation ] Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, we have heard Mike Duffy's version. If the Prime Minister wants to keep the tiny bit of credibility he still has, he should publicly release all of the documents about this scandal. When will he do that? [ English ] Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, those who undertook these actions are being investigated by the appropriate authorities.

Obviously, any information that we can provide, we have provided and will continue to provide. We obviously want to see those authorities complete their actions and make the appropriate judgments in terms of responsibility. Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, would the Prime Minister agree that he should have told the House how many members of his staff were involved in the Mike Duffy matter when he was asked by the NDP on June 5? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, of course, I addressed this issue publicly in July. Mr.

Wright has been very clear about who he told or who he informed of his intentions. He has also been very clear that he undertook this action on his own. It was his own decision, using his own resources. He has admitted to me and to others that the decision was a mistake. He has resigned and is accepting his responsibility. Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, in exchange for Mike Duffy going along with the PMO clan, did the Prime Minister ever undertake to “publicly confirm you are entitled to sit as a Senator from PEI”? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr.

Speaker, when we name senators, we ensure that they fit the eligibility criteria for the Senate. Those criteria are laid out in the Constitution. Once again, none of that permits, however, in our judgment, if someone acts with integrity, someone claiming an expense he or she did not incur. When someone is living at a long-time residence, he or she cannot claim to be in travel status legitimately, in our view. I think Canadians widely share that view, and I am surprised that the NDP now seems very uncertain on that matter. [ Translation ] Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP) : Mr.

Speaker, the RCMP, the media, Nigel Wright, and Mike Duffy have all reported the same version of the facts. Their version of the facts contradicts the Prime Minister 's. The Prime Minister's parliamentary secretary does not know the details of the scandal, but the Prime Minister does. Did the Prime Minister keep quiet yesterday because he could no longer think of a way to get around the truth and because there was no way out? (1440) [ English ] Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, my answers on this matter from day one have been exactly the same as they are today. The facts are clear.

Mr. Duffy was told. Mr. Duffy now says he is a victim because I told him he should repay his expenses. Darn right I told him. Mr. Nathan Cullen (Skeena—Bulkley Valley, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister seems to have a well-developed sense of victimhood that he is embellishing every day. The Canadian public is watching with shock and disgust as the Conservative web of lies completely unravels.

We have seen a senator willing to tell his story and a lawyer reading from damning PMO emails, yet the Prime Minister refuses to answer any questions truthfully, refuses to produce any evidence whatsoever, and stubbornly refuses to be honest with Canadians. Instead, he sits in his seat and sends out his latest spokespeople to evade and mislead Canadians. This goes to the heart of the Prime Minister's Office, to his very character. When is the Prime Minister going to stand and finally tell— The Speaker : The Right Hon. Prime Minister. Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : That is a lot of rhetoric, Mr.

Speaker. The fact of the matter is this. The victims here are the Canadian people who expect from all parliamentarians that they will treat public money with the appropriate respect and integrity it deserves. It is not appropriate for someone to claim an expense that he really did not incur even though he thinks he can technically argue it is somehow within the rules. That is not proper. One expects that the Senate will take the appropriate action, as it is doing, to deal with this. Hon. Ralph Goodale (Wascana, Lib.) : Mr.

Speaker, the Prime Minister acknowledges a February 13 meeting in which he ordered the Duffy payback scheme, but according to PMO security logs there was another encounter two days earlier. Mr. Duffy attended a meeting in the Prime Minister's private boardroom on the second floor of the Langevin building on Monday, February 11, 2013. Was the Prime Minister in his office in the Langevin building on that day? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I have been clear. I spoke to Mr. Duffy on one occasion about that on February 13.

The inference of what the hon. gentleman said is that somehow I approved Mr. Wright paying Mr. Duffy's expenses. I did no such thing. I made it very clear to everybody on my staff and in my caucus that I expected the senator in question to repay his own inappropriate expenses. When Mr. Duffy went on national television to say that he had repaid his own expenses by taking out a loan against his assets, that is exactly what he should have done. Unfortunately, he did not do it, and he does not face up to the fact that he was wrong not to do it. Hon. Ralph Goodale (Wascana, Lib.) : Mr.

Speaker, to be clear, the answer to my question is yes. Until just a few days ago the Prime Minister's website proudly displayed a photograph of the Prime Minister at his desk in the Langevin building on February 11, just a few feet from where Mr. Duffy would have been. Was there any conversation between the two of them? If not, was the Prime Minister — Some hon. members: Oh, oh! The Speaker : Order. The hon. member for Wascana now has the floor. Hon. Ralph Goodale : They seem a titch nervous, Mr. Speaker. Was there any conversation between the two of them on that day?

If not, was the Prime Minister debriefed on his office's meeting with Mr. Duffy? What was the purpose of Mr. Duffy's meeting in the Prime Minister's Office on February 11?

(1445) Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, the answer to the direct question is no. I think the allegation here is that Mr. Duffy and I were in Ottawa on the same day. I made it very clear to Mr. Duffy, and I said long before, on February 13, that he should repay his inappropriate expenses. I learned only later, on May 15, that he had not done so, and that Mr. Wright had done that on his behalf. Because of that, Mr. Duffy is no longer a member of the Conservative caucus and Mr. Wright no longer works in the PMO. Hon. Ralph Goodale (Wascana, Lib.) : Mr.

Speaker, the Prime Minister did not know, but 13 people in his office did. By the Prime Minister 's admission, he gave the orders that covered up the Mike Duffy situation. What followed was a pattern of hush money, spin, and disinformation, and the deliberate obstruction of a forensic audit. Now we have the shovelling of all the key actors out of sight: Wright, LeBreton, Tkachuk, Perrin, Woodcock, and Stewart-Olsen have all conveniently been moved aside.

Without any further deflection or delay, will the Prime Minister assume his responsibility for all the people in this fiasco that he appointed, and for the orders he gave? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, once again the entire premise of that question is false. Mr. Wright has said very clearly that the payment he made was his own decision. He has admitted that it was made with his funds and that it was an inappropriate and incorrect decision. He has taken full responsibility, as he should, and he is suffering the investigations and consequences.

Aboriginal Affairs Ms. Jean Crowder (Nanaimo—Cowichan, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, late last night the government quietly posted online a draft of the new first nations education act. Conservatives are proposing a complex and costly new bureaucracy for a first nations education system that is already grossly underfunded compared to other schools in Canada. If the government is ready to work with first nations communities in a spirit of reconciliation, will the minister stand up right now and agree to stop underfunding on-reserve schools?

Hon. Bernard Valcourt (Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, the government is consulting on a draft proposal for first nation education on which it has not taken any kind of decision. With first nations stakeholders, provinces, and people who care, we look forward to participating in this consultation process and receiving their comments and feedback so that collectively as a country we can live up to our responsibility to ensure that first nations students get a good education system in place. [ Translation ] Mr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain (Manicouagan, NDP) : Mr.

Speaker, the minister continues to spout nonsense. The minister wants to link funding for schools with performance. However, as everyone knows, the problem is that the schools on reserve are currently underfunded. Given that situation, we cannot expect very high performance levels. The problem with the performance of aboriginal schools is underfunding. When will the minister address the root of the problem and provide adequate funding for schools rather than continue to decrease— The Speaker : The hon. Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Hon.

Bernard Valcourt (Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, the member would do well to prepare his own questions. Then he would not have trouble reading the text that someone else prepared for him. First, what he is saying is completely false. In the proposal that was issued yesterday, funding is in no way related to performance. Once again, this is a proposal. A final decision has not yet been made. We are in the process of consulting with first nations, the provinces and people who are interested in developing an education system for first nations students in Canada.

[ English ] Privacy Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins—James Bay, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, the privacy of Canadians is again under attack. This time it is Bell, which will start gathering a massive amount of information on their customers: every website they visit, every search they do, every time they click the mouse, Bell will snoop on them whether they give their consent or not. When Canadians pay their Internet bills, they expect good service, not to have Ma Bell keeping tabs on them. Will the Conservatives act now to protect the privacy rights of Canadians and bring our privacy laws into the digital age?

(1450) Hon. James Moore (Minister of Industry, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, we have taken many actions to protect the privacy of Canadians. Specifically with regard to this matter, indeed Bell has raised a number of new policies that are of concern to consumers. The good news for my colleague opposite and for those Canadians who are concerned is that the Privacy Commissioner, whom I met with yesterday, is looking at this matter.

Those Canadians who are concerned about the new policies that Bell is putting forward have an avenue to register their concerns and be involved in a process to allay those concerns effectively through the regulator. [ Translation ] Ms. Charmaine Borg (Terrebonne—Blainville, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, he completely failed to address the issue raised by my colleague. Bell is going to keep tabs on its customers and the government is going to just sit back and watch. This is a major failure for a party that just gave a so-called pro-consumer throne speech. This type of spying must stop.

There are simple and practical solutions to this problem, solutions that are found in the NDP's Bill C-475 . Will the Conservatives support Bell keeping tabs on its customers or will they support my bill? Hon. James Moore (Minister of Industry, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, we will not support either. What I just said is that we are not in favour of a process that is not in the interests of consumers. That is why a commissioner is now involved in this process. If people across Canada are concerned about the policies in question, they can now get involved in the process and register their concerns.

With regard to the member's bill, we simply do not support it. It goes too far. We explained why when we debated the bill in the House of Commons.

[ English ] International Trade Mr. Phil McColeman (Brant, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, as most of us in this chamber know, trade creates jobs and opportunities and improves the living standards of Canadian families. The exception is the NDP, which opposes all trade, including the new Canada-Europe trade agreement, much to the dismay of anyone who benefits from free and open trade. Could the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport please inform the House of the other ways our government develops trade and creates new opportunities for Canadian families? Mr.

Jeff Watson (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for Brant , who is a solid advocate for increased trade. Projects such as the Canada-Europe trade agreement and the Detroit River international crossing will generate jobs, growth, and long-term prosperity. A new bridge to connect Windsor and Detroit is needed for growing trade and traffic at the busiest Canada-U.S. commercial border crossing. This project will create thousands of jobs and opportunities.

Over two million family-sustaining Canadian jobs depend on trade and investment between our two countries, and we cannot rely on the NDP's radical economic experiments to protect them.

The Economy Ms. Peggy Nash (Parkdale—High Park, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the Minister of Finance about his embarrassing comments concerning quantitative easing. The finance minister said he was against both “monetary accommodation” and “monetary easing”. Is this in fact the finance minister's position? Hon. Jim Flaherty (Minister of Finance, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I do not know why the hon. member opposite would ask the same question again. I do not suffer from amnesia, although I have some health problems. I thank the hon. member for her question.

We have a Canadian position, our own situation in Canada, and we are fortunate, in my view, because of solid economic management, which one would expect me to say, that we are not in need of such a remedy. Ms. Peggy Nash (Parkdale—High Park, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, it is non-answers like that that have the international business community scratching their heads. Monetary accommodation is conventional, standard monetary policy. It is entirely different from extraordinary measures such as quantitative easing. Neither of them is quite the same as printing money.

Is the finance minister really saying that he opposes the Bank of Canada using normal monetary policy to stimulate the economy? Hon. Jim Flaherty (Minister of Finance, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I have an agreement with the Bank of Canada about the use of extraordinary measures.

The Budget Ms. Peggy Nash (Parkdale—High Park, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, how can Conservatives ask Canadians to trust them on the economy when they clearly do not understand Economics 101? The Conservatives' latest budget implementation bill is just a grab bag of surprises, including an underhanded attack against workers. Why is the Minister of Finance using a budget bill to undermine workers' health and safety rules?

(1455) Hon. Kellie Leitch (Minister of Labour and Minister of Status of Women, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I guess the member opposite did not hear my answer yesterday, so I reiterate it. Our government remains focused on the economy, and part of that is making sure that workplaces are safe, productive, and fair. Health and safety officers will receive additional support so that they can do their job, enhancing quality and making sure that the decisions they are making for the safety of Canadian workers are focused. We are focused on making sure that workplaces are safe and productive. I ask the member opposite why she is not on board with this.

Justice Ms. Françoise Boivin (Gatineau, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, I thought the question was about the budget. I guess I missed the point. [ Translation ] Does the Minister of Finance understand finance? I do not see how changes to the legislation for appointing Quebec judges to the Supreme Court, which were announced without consulting Quebec, help promote economic growth in Canada. The changes to the legislation for appointing Quebec judges to the Supreme Court have massive implications. Why does the minister want to pick a new fight with Quebec?

Will judicial appointments for Quebec from the Federal Court be a new standard at the Supreme Court of Canada? [ English ] Hon. Peter MacKay (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, as I indicated yesterday, our government believes very strongly that we should defend the rights of long-serving members of the Quebec bar, and in fact of every bar in the country, to serve on the highest court of Canada. What we have done as well is table in the House of Commons a clarification provision that will provide greater clarity. I know members opposite want clarity in Quebec.

That is exactly what we have done. We look forward to the Supreme Court itself ruling on the eligibility of Mr. Justice Nadon and then to seeing him join that esteemed group on the Supreme Court of Canada.

Ethics Ms. Judy Foote (Random—Burin—St. George's, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, Chris Woodcock was director of issues management for the Prime Minister . We know he was deeply involved in crafting the scheme and the media lines to help cover up who actually cut the cheque to pay back Mike Duffy's expenses. Mr. Woodcock has since moved jobs, putting distance between him and the Prime Minister . He is now the chief of staff for the Minister of Natural Resources . Can the minister categorically deny he was not asked by the PMO to hire Mr. Woodcock? Mr.

Paul Calandra (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I think the Prime Minister has been very clear today. He has answered all of the questions put forward to him. What was very clear is that when Senator Duffy approached the Prime Minister about his inappropriate expenses, the Prime Minister told him to repay those expenses. What happened yesterday is that Senator Duffy could have gone into the Senate, accepted responsibility for what he had done, and said “Sorry”, but he chose not to do that.

Instead he chose to defend the fact that he had accepted inappropriate expenses. We have the leadership of the Prime Minister , who said that we should not only accept the letter of the law but also the spirit of the law. [ Translation ] Hon. Dominic LeBlanc (Beauséjour, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, Nigel Wright did not act alone in the Mike Duffy affair.

Ray Novak, the Prime Minister 's current chief of staff, Marjory LeBreton, the former leader of the government in the Senate, and Conservative senators Tkachuk and Stewart Olsen have all been accused of participating in this scheme and threatening Mike Duffy in order to buy his silence. We are talking about potential criminal allegations. How can the Prime Minister keep people in his inner circle who are the subject of these kinds of allegations? [ English ] Mr. Paul Calandra (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs, CPC) : Mr.

Speaker, the Prime Minister has said quite clearly that he answered all the questions available to him with the information that he had available. Mr. Wright, at the same time, has accepted full responsibility and sole responsibility for this. We are assisting in the investigations. At the same time, as the Prime Minister said, we expect all parliamentarians to not only follow the letter of the law but the spirit of the law, and not accept expenses that are inappropriate.

[ Translation ] International Co-operation Ms. Hélène Laverdière (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, we have learned that the CEO of Rio Tinto Alcan is advising the government about the merger of what was formerly CIDA with the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. The Conservatives let the gun lobby dictate our arms trade policy. Are they now going to let the mining industry dictate our foreign aid policy? (1500) [ English ] Ms. Lois Brown (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development, CPC) : Mr.

Speaker, our government is maximizing the effectiveness of development and humanitarian assistance. We are ensuring that Canada stays at the forefront of an ever-changing world. Thanks to the leadership of the Prime Minister , Canada is respected around the world for the work and the results that we achieve. Our government will continue to seek advice from all players to ensure we continue to deliver results for both Canadians and our development partners. Mr. Paul Dewar (Ottawa Centre, NDP) : Mr.

Speaker, after rushing ahead with the merger without proper consultation, the Conservatives have quietly appointed a mining executive to help restructure the Department of Foreign Affairs, if members can believe it. Being good at increasing profits does not mean necessarily being good at reducing poverty. The OECD has already condemned the government for putting its aid to corporations instead of people. Are the Conservatives putting big business in charge of the foreign affairs agenda of the government, yes or no? Ms. Lois Brown (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development, CPC) : Mr.

Speaker, helping those most vulnerable in the world remains the focus of our development dollars. The realignment of development with foreign affairs and trade will help us do this more effectively. We have experts from all disciplines: academics, business, public service, diplomatic and civil society. With this expertise, we will help more people, while respecting taxpayer dollars.

Justice Mr. Rob Clarke (Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, no other government in Canadian history has done more to stand up for victims of crime than our Conservative government. Whether it is repealing Pierre Trudeau's faint hope clause for murderers, cracking down on child sexual offenders or creating a federal victim strategy, Canadians can count on our government to stand up for victims. This is one reason why our government has introduced and passed legislation to double down on the victim surcharge and make it mandatory in all cases without exception.

Could the Minister of Justice please inform the House when this important legislation will come into force? Hon. Peter MacKay (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, like my friend, I am happy to report that Bill C-37 , Increasing Offenders' Accountability for Victims Act, will come into force tomorrow. By increasing the victim fine surcharge, victims across the country will find more funding available for their much-needed services. In fact, this will enhance measures to hold offenders responsible for their actions.

This is but one of a comprehensive justice package that we have presented over the years. I assure the House that while we have made great strides, we will continue to stand up for victims, and there is more to come, including a victims bill of rights. I would encourage opposition members to support those initiatives.

Finance Hon. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance , who has added over $150 billion to our national debt, is now promising balanced budget legislation which “will require balanced budgets during normal economic times”. Yesterday he told us that “Normal times are times when the government is not in deficit”. Will the minister please confirm that his balanced budget legislation will require balanced budgets only when the budget is already balanced? Hon. Jim Flaherty (Minister of Finance, CPC) : Mr.

Speaker, of course, it would be a foreign concept to my friend opposite to talk to him about balanced budgets. Let me say this. We had a balanced budget— Some hon. members: Oh, oh! The Speaker : Order, please. The hon. Minister of Finance now has the floor. The hon. minister. Hon. Jim Flaherty : Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the proposal, which will have to be legislated and get the approval of the House, is to ensure that in normal economic times governments do not run the country into more public debt.

What we have seen over the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s under former Liberal prime ministers is an accumulation of public debt that is massive, and we are going to pay it off.

(1505) [ Translation ] Health Mr. Raymond Côté (Beauport—Limoilou, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, one year has already passed since the first red dust cloud descended on Vieux-Limoilou. It was also one year ago that the former Minister of Transport, the current Quebec lieutenant, refused to acknowledge his responsibility in the Port of Quebec file. He ignores the risks to public safety, including during the unloading of nickel. Unlike her colleague, the new Minister of Transport must accept her responsibilities and take action in order to protect public health. Will she do so? [ English ] Hon.

Lisa Raitt (Minister of Transport, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, the Port of Quebec officials are the ones responsible for balancing the economic inputs and effects they have in the Quebec area to create jobs, as well as the health and safety of the residents in the area. I expect that the port authority will take the concerns of the community into consideration as it continues to make decisions.

International Trade Mr. John Williamson (New Brunswick Southwest, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, the historic Canada-EU trade agreement announced by our Prime Minister will bring benefits to key economic sectors in every region of the country. Despite what the opposition and its anti-trade union backers say, we know this trade agreement, with a market of over 500 million people, will benefit Canadian workers, businesses and families.

In order to counter the fear and misinformation being spread by fringe anti-trade free traders, could the parliamentary secretary update the House on what our government is doing to ensure Canadians from coast to coast have the facts about this important trade deal? Mr. Erin O'Toole (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, the Canada-European Union trade agreement is great for job creation and families across the country.

That is why the trade minister is in Halifax today talking about the benefits to the seafood, agriculture and forestry and shipping sectors, and that is why in the last few days the Conference Board of Canada, the Chamber of Commerce and others have confirmed that prices will go down for families and employment will go up. The member for New Brunswick Southwest can assure families in New Brunswick that our government has secured an agreement that is tremendous for Atlantic Canada and will secure a $1,000 net benefit for families once implemented.

[ Translation ] Employment Insurance Mr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister of employment said that he never received the letter from Mouvement autonome et solidaire des sans-emploi. If he does not find it, I would be pleased to send him a copy. However, the group's concerns, and ours for that matter, are heightened by reports in Le Devoir that unemployed workers will now have to submit an access to information request to access their own records. How ridiculous can this get, especially when we know just how dysfunctional the access to information system is?

How can the minister justify such a directive? Hon. Jason Kenney (Minister of Employment and Social Development and Minister for Multiculturalism, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, there is no such policy. Service Canada has informed me that it will continue to provide information, as it has in the past, before an appeal is filed. I would like to point out that under the new Social Security Tribunal, the review process for employment insurance applicants has improved greatly. The number of applications that go to a formal appeal has been greatly reduced.

Reviews are conducted much more quickly, and it is much more convenient for applicants.

Intergovernmental Relations Mr. Jean-François Fortin (Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, BQ) : Mr. Speaker, this morning the Quebec National Assembly unanimously denounced Ottawa's decision to challenge Bill 99 and to deny Quebecers the right to freely choose their future and decide their political status for themselves. Both separatists and federalists agreed that only the Quebec National Assembly has the power to set the rules for a referendum, including the wording of the referendum question.

Will the Prime Minister finally honour his commitment to recognize Quebec as a nation and comply with the unanimous will of the Quebec National Assembly? Hon. Denis Lebel (Minister of Infrastructure, Communities and Intergovernmental Affairs and Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, that question is based on false premises. This case does not involve the Government of Canada, but rather a Canadian citizen against the Government of Quebec. This matter is before the courts.

I even went into the member's region this summer and I did not hear anyone asking for a referendum. We certainly cannot blame the Canadian government for defending the laws of Canada.

[ English ] Business of the House Hon. John Duncan (Minister of State and Chief Government Whip, CPC) : Motion Mr. Speaker, if you seek it, I think you would find unanimous consent for the following motion. I move: That, notwithstanding any Standing Order or usual practice of the House, the question on ways and means Motion No. 2 be put immediately following the recorded division on the opposition motion later this day and if a recorded division is requested on the ways and means motion, the vote shall be taken up immediately.

(1510) The Speaker : Does the hon. government whip have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. The Speaker: The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. (Motion agreed to)

Government Orders Business of Supply [ English ] Business of Supply Opposition Motion—Senate Accountability Motion The House resumed from October 22 consideration of the motion. The Speaker : Pursuant to an order made on Tuesday, October 22, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion relating to the business of supply.

(1515) (The House divided on the motion which was negatived on the following division:) (Division No. 4) YEAS Members Allen (Welland) Angus Ashton Atamanenko Aubin Ayala Bellavance Benskin Bevington Blanchette Blanchette-Lamothe Boivin Borg Boulerice Boutin-Sweet Brahmi Brosseau Caron Cash Charlton Chicoine Chisholm Choquette Chow Christopherson Cleary Comartin Côté Crowder Cullen Davies (Vancouver Kingsway) Day Dewar Dionne Labelle Donnelly Doré Lefebvre Dubé Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) Dusseault Fortin Freeman Garrison Genest Genest-Jourdain Giguère Godin Gravelle Groguhé Harris (Scarborough Southwest) Harris (St.

John's East) Hughes Hyer Jacob Julian Kellway Lapointe Larose Laverdière LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard) Leslie Liu Mai Masse Mathyssen May Michaud Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord) Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine) Morin (Laurentides—Labelle) Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot) Mulcair Nantel Nash Nicholls Nunez-Melo Papillon Patry Péclet Pilon Plamondon Quach Rafferty Ravignat Raynault Rousseau Saganash Sandhu Scott Sellah Sims (Newton—North Delta) Sitsabaiesan Stewart Stoffer Sullivan Thibeault Toone Tremblay Turmel -- 99 NAYS Members Ablonczy Adams Adler Aglukkaq Albas Albrecht Alexander Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac) Allison Ambler Ambrose Anders Anderson Andrews Armstrong Aspin Baird Bateman Bélanger Bennett Benoit Bergen Bernier Bezan Blaney Block Boughen Braid Breitkreuz Brison Brown (Leeds—Grenville) Brown (Newmarket—Aurora) Brown (Barrie) Bruinooge Butt Calandra Calkins Cannan Carmichael Carrie Casey Chong Clarke Clement Cotler Crockatt Cuzner Daniel Davidson Dechert Del Mastro Devolin Dion Duncan (Vancouver Island North) Duncan (Etobicoke North) Dykstra Easter Eyking Fantino Findlay (Delta—Richmond East) Finley (Haldimand—Norfolk) Flaherty Fletcher Foote Fry Galipeau Gallant Garneau Gill Glover Goguen Goldring Goodale Goodyear Gosal Gourde Grewal Harris (Cariboo—Prince George) Hawn Hayes Hiebert Hillyer Hoback Holder Hsu James Jean Jones Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission) Karygiannis Keddy (South Shore—St.

Margaret'

s) Kenney (Calgary Southeast) Kent Kerr Komarnicki Kramp (Prince Edward—Hastings) Lake Lamoureux Lauzon Lebel LeBlanc (Beauséjour) Leef Leitch Lemieux Lizon Lobb Lukiwski Lunney MacAulay MacKay (Central Nova) MacKenzie Mayes McCallum McColeman McGuinty McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood) McLeod Menegakis Menzies Merrifield Miller Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam) Moore (Fundy Royal) Murray Norlock Obhrai O'Connor Oliver O'Neill Gordon Opitz O'Toole Pacetti Payne Poilievre Preston Raitt Rajotte Regan Reid Rempel Richards Rickford Ritz Saxton Scarpaleggia Schellenberger Seeback Sgro Shea Shipley Shory Sopuck Sorenson Stanton St-Denis Storseth Strahl Sweet Tilson Toet Trost Trottier Trudeau Truppe Valcourt Valeriote Van Kesteren Van Loan Vellacott Wallace Warawa Warkentin Watson Weston (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country) Weston (Saint John) Wilks Williamson Wong Woodworth Yelich Young (Oakville) Zimmer -- 182 PAIRED Nil The Speaker : I declare the motion defeated.

Motion negatived [ Translation ] The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska on a point of order. Mr. André Bellavance : Mr. Speaker, I just quickly wanted to make sure that you understood our dissent regarding the motion moved by the Chief Government Whip. We shouted “on division”, but I did not hear you say that. I just wanted to clarify this. The Speaker : In fact, I asked for unanimous consent to now have the vote on the ways and means motion, but I did not put the question on the motion before the House. In a few seconds, the member can indicate that it is on division.

(1520) [ English ] Ways and Means Motion No. 2 The Speaker : The House will now proceed to the taking of the question on Motion No. 2 under ways and means proceedings. Hon. Joe Oliver (Minister of Natural Resources, CPC) Motion for concurrence moved that a ways and means motion to amend the Canada-Newfoundland Atlantic Accord Implementation Act, the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act, and the Excise Tax Act be concurred in. The Speaker : Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. Some hon. members: No. The Speaker: I declare the motion carried on division. (Motion agreed to)

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Routine Proceedings [ English ] Interparliamentary Delegations Mr. Randy Hoback (Prince Albert, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), I have the honour to present in the House, in both official languages, three reports on the Canadian

section of ParlAmericas respecting its participation at the 21st executive committee meeting in Panama City; the 27th ParlAmericas meeting of the board of directors in Manzanillo, Mexico; and the 31st ParlAmericas meeting of the board of directors in Paramaribo, Suriname, May 13-15. Mrs. Susan Truppe (Parliamentary Secretary for Status of Women, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the report of the Canadian

section of the ParlAmericas respecting its participation at the Annual Gathering of the Group of Women Parliamentarians, Paramaribo, Suriname, May 16-17, 2013.

Navigable Waters Protection Act Mr. Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic, NDP) Bill C-543. Introduction and first reading moved for leave to introduce Bill C-543,

An Act to amend the Navigable Waters Protection Act (Peel River) . He said: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to add the Peel River to the list of waterways protected under the Navigable Waters Protection Act. The Conservative government removed this very important river from that list as part of second omnibus bill, Bill C-45 . After consulting this summer with the people in the Mackenzie Delta and those in the Yukon, there was a great deal of support for this river's protection.

This is one step in making an attempt to return this river to a status of some measure of protection, which means that in the case of a development on the river, the federal government would have a responsibility to ensure that the development was following good practices. This is a river that has great tourism and wilderness value, and it is a river that has enormous significance to the Gwich'in people of the Northwest Territories and the Yukon. (Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Private Members' Business Hon. Peter Van Loan (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, the motion I have relates to MPs becoming parliamentary secretaries and vacating their private members' bills as a result of that process. There have been consultations among the parties, so I anticipate unanimous consent for the following motion. Motion I move: That, notwithstanding any standing order or usual practice of the House, the order for second reading and reference to committee of Bill C-511,

an act to amend the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act (period of residence) listed in the order of precedence; Bill C-515,

an act to amend the Criminal Code (law enforcement animals), listed on the Order Paper; and, Bill C-517,

an act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in persons), listed in the order of precedence, be discharged and the bills withdrawn; And, the order of reference to the Standing Committee on Finance of Bill C-458,

an act respecting a national charities week and to amend the Income Tax Act (charitable and other gifts) be discharged and the bill withdrawn; And, the Order of reference to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights of Bill C-478,

an act to amend the Criminal Code (increasing parole ineligibility) be discharged and the bill withdrawn.

(1525) The Speaker : Does the hon. Leader of the Government in the House of Commons have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. The Speaker: The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. (Motion agreed to)

[ Translation ] Special Committee on Violence Against Indigenous Women Ms. Nycole Turmel (Hull—Aylmer, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, I move the following motion: Motion That, notwithstanding the Order adopted by the House on Monday, October 21, 2013, the first vice-chair of the Special Committee on Violence Against Indigenous Women be the Member for Nanaimo-Cowichan. [ English ] The Speaker : Does the hon. opposition whip have the unanimous consent of the House to propose the motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. The Speaker: The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. (Motion agreed to)

Petitions Creation of National Urban Park Ms. Rathika Sitsabaiesan (Scarborough—Rouge River, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, I stand on behalf of petitioners in the greater Toronto area with respect to the creation of Rouge national urban park. Since 100 square kilometres of public land assembly surrounds the Rouge River and Duffins Creek watersheds in Toronto, Markham, and Pickering, this publicly owned provincial, federal, and municipal land is predominantly designated under the provincial greenbelt natural heritage system. It is home to the endangered Carolinian and mixed woodland/plain-life zones of Canada.

It is also the ancestral home of the Mississauga, Huron-Wendat, and Seneca first nations and their sacred burial and village sites. Since the plan for the Rouge national urban park concept and the May 2012 draft confines the park area study to 57 square kilometres instead of the 100 square kilometres of public land assembly needed for a healthy and sustainable Rouge national park, the petitioners are requesting that the land be protected and that 100 square kilometres of public land assembly be brought together for the Rouge national urban park.

Nuclear Weapons Hon. Ralph Goodale (Wascana, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a petition signed by several pages of people from Saskatchewan and across Canada expressing their deep concern about the continuing threat posed by many thousands of nuclear weapons across the globe. They argue that any use of weapons of ultimate mass destruction, whether by accident or miscalculation, would have catastrophic consequences for humanity. They call upon the Government of Canada and all national governments to negotiate a treaty banning nuclear weapons and leading to their complete eradication.

Cell Towers Mr. Frank Valeriote (Guelph, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, I rise to table a petition on behalf of another group of hundreds of constituents concerned about the installation of yet another cell tower in Guelph. Yesterday I tabled a similar petition for one in the south end. Today it is for one in an east end residential area on Starwood and Grange. The petitioners are concerned about studies that have found that microwaves emitted from cell towers are being linked to leukemia, infertility, cancer, Alzheimer's, and autism as well as other short-term effects.

They call upon Industry Canada to not approve the proposals and state that local councils must be allowed to make their own decisions about tower sites without being overruled. This is not exclusive to Guelph. Telecommunication towers are being built indiscriminately in communities across Canada. Ministry guidelines do not provide the opportunity for Canadians to object if the tower is under 15 metres. This is a national issue, and the minister must change the process.

Mining Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP) : Mr. Speaker, I rise to present petitions received from residents of North Bay, Ontario and Kipawa, Quebec. They relate very specifically to a proposed mining area. Matamec Explorations proposes to mine for rare earths. The petitioners call upon the House to recognize the unique ecological, cultural, and historic value of the Kipawa Lake system and to protect this system from the proposed development.

Genetically Modified Alfalfa Mr. Patrick Brown (Barrie, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House to present a petition containing over 200 signatures from my riding of Barrie, Ontario in regard to a concern about genetically modified alfalfa. I will pass these concerns along.

The Environment Mr. Bruce Hyer (Thunder Bay—Superior North, Ind.) : Mr. Speaker, I have petitions from across Canada calling on our government to implement a national moratorium on hydraulic fracking, to compel oil and gas companies to disclose the database of chemicals used in fracking to date, to conduct a comprehensive environmental assessment on fracking, and in accordance with polluter pay, to hold companies to account for the cost of cleaning up fracking damage that has already occurred.

(1530) Questions on the Order Paper Mr. Tom Lukiwski (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand. The Speaker: Is that agreed? Some hon. members: Agreed.

Motions for Papers Mr. Tom Lukiwski (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I ask that all notices of motions for the production of papers be allowed to stand. The Speaker: Is that agreed? Some hon. members: Agreed. The Speaker : I will hear the hon. member for Avalon on the question of privilege that was raised last week.

Privilege Statements by Prime Minister Regarding Repayment of Senator's Expenses Privilege Mr. Scott Andrews (Avalon, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, I rise today on the question of privilege raised by the member for Timmins—James Bay on October 17. On June 5 with the resignation of Nigel Wright, the pressure was mounting on the Prime Minister surrounding the $90,000 payoff to Mike Duffy. The Prime Minister rose in the House and told the House: ...it was Mr. Wright who made the decision to take his personal funds and give those to Mr. Duffy so that Mr. Duffy could reimburse the taxpayers. Those were his decisions.

They were not communicated to me or to members of my office. They were Mr. Wright's decisions, but he takes full responsibility for them. The most important sentence in that whole statement was, and I will reiterate, “They were not communicated to me or to members of my office”. I assume on June 5 he did communicate with all members of his office to get to the bottom of this. With revelations not only by Senator Mike Duffy yesterday but indeed by sworn court documents filed by the RCMP, we know now that the Prime Minister's assertions in June and his ongoing answers to the Mike Duffy payoff are simply not true.

Worse, the Prime Minister continues to provide answers in the House that bear no resemblance to the facts that are now on the record. Back in June it seemed somewhat possible that the Prime Minister simply had no idea what was going on in his own office and that Nigel Wright acted alone with no one else involved or informed. Some would give him the benefit of the doubt. However, it is now plainly evident that this was not the case. We know that several people in the Prime Minister 's Office and his inner circle were involved with this deal and this cover-up.

We know this from sworn court documents filed by the RCMP, and Mike Duffy echoed this yesterday, revealing that the Prime Minister himself gave the order, far from the Prime Minister's claim of Nigel Wright acting alone.

The list of those allegedly involved in what is known now about this Conservative cover-up has become extensive: Senator Mike Duffy; former PMO chief of staff Nigel Wright; current PMO chief of staff Ray Novak; former government leader in the Senate Marjorie LeBreton; former PMO staffer and chief of staff to the Minister of Natural Resources Chris Woodcock; Senator Irving Gerstein; Senator Carolyn Stewart Olsen; Senator David Tkachuk; Conservative national campaign manager Jenni Byrne; PMO staffer David van Hemmen; PMO lawyer Benjamin Perrin; PMO staffer Patrick Rogers; Senator John Wallace; and most important, the Prime Minister himself, who met with Mike Duffy and Nigel Wright on this very issue on February 13 and told senator Duffy that he needed to warp the public perception of this issue regardless of the facts.

That, my friends, is called a cover-up. The allegations are shocking: the bribery and extortion of a senator; telling him to take the money and follow their plan or face disgrace and expulsion. They told him to agree and all of his improprieties would go away; just take the money and play by the PMO rules. The issue at hand is the question of privilege. The specific abuse that we are dealing with right now is ongoing and misleading of the House by the Prime Minister . It is now plainly evident that Nigel Wright did not act alone. What we may have excused as ignorance and incompetence on the Prime Minister's

part in June can no longer be dismissed so easily. The facts are now coming out, and they demonstrate a clear and deliberate attempt to mislead the House and to mislead Canadians about the actions of the Prime Minister, his office and his inner circle. That is contempt of Parliament. Some may ask who we are to believe. Is the Prime Minister telling the truth, or is Mike Duffy, or is the RCMP? This brings me to a difficult role that the Speaker must play in these matters.

The House does not rely on the Speaker to pass judgment on whether it is absolutely proven that the Prime Minister deliberately misled the House. The question you face, Mr. Speaker, is simply put: At first glance, is it possible that contempt has taken place? I would argue that this situation has clearly passed that test. If you agree, Mr. Speaker, you must allow this issue to be debated and sent before an appropriate committee of the House, so the House can be satisfied on this matter.

(1535) The very functioning of this place is based on the assumption that all hon. members behave in an honourable manner. While opinions may differ at times, we are all bound to speak the truth. When any member abandons this principle, it is an insult to the House and to Canadians, who we are sent here to represent. Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins—James Bay, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, it is always a great honour to stand in the House.

I would like to offer some additional comments on the question of privilege that I raised on October 17 regarding misleading statements made by the Prime Minister in the House in relation to the secret and potentially criminal payout to Mike Duffy. More specifically, I feel I need to add to this issue in order to answer the intervention yesterday by the government House leader. First, let me say I was very disappointed that the government House leader would say that this issue was “absurd” or a “political stunt”.

I hope that, given the seriousness of the matter before Parliament, the House leader would not have taken it so lightly and would not have tried to shove it aside. This is not an issue that can be brushed aside, because Parliament is where the laws of this land are made and there is an obligation for all of us to meet certain standards. Canadians want answers in this very disturbing and squalid scandal, and they want to know what happened. Therefore, when the Prime Minister was asked questions and provided false information, he interfered with the rights of the members of the House.

One of the arguments of the government House leader yesterday was that it is a long-established practice in the House that parliamentarians are to be taken at their word. Indeed, that is a practice that is essential for the workings of a democratic institution, and we agree with him, which is why the issue of a minister knowingly misrepresenting facts to his colleagues in the House or misrepresenting facts because his staff misled him is a breach of the privileges of the members of the House and can be found to be a contempt on the workings of Parliament.

What we are talking about right now is not he-said-she-said, as is being inferred by the government House leader , but facts that have been shown to be false through the affidavits of the RCMP and now through other statements that have come forward. The government House leader says that we must take parliamentarians at their word, and yet we have a situation where we now have two parliamentarians who have made completely contradictory declarations about the role they played in an issue that is under investigation by the RCMP. Therefore, it is essential that we find out the true answers.

Yesterday in his speech to the Senate, Mike Duffy was categorical in stating that the Prime Minister 's Office was involved in the secret negotiations for the $90,000 cheque and that the Prime Minister himself was directly involved in negotiations with Mike Duffy. Senator Duffy said the Prime Minister himself had ordered him to repay his living expenses because they had become a political problem for the Conservatives. He said that at a meeting on February 13, 2013, between him, the Prime Minister and Nigel Wright, “just the three of us”, the Prime Minister told him, “'It's not about what you did.

It’s about the perception of what you did that’s been created in the media. The rules are inexplicable to our base'”. Duffy said, “I was ordered by the prime minister to pay the money back, end of discussion”. These comments are very troubling because they contradict the statements that were made by the Prime Minister in the House, which he reiterated again today when he said that he spoke to Mike Duffy at a caucus meeting. The appearance given to the House of Commons was that this was in passing. At the time the Prime Minister made those comments, he said he told Mr.

Duffy that if the expenses were inappropriate, he should pay them back. The Prime Minister today gives us, number one, the statement that he was categorical and emphatic that Mike Duffy had misrepresented his claims and was ordered to pay them back. That is different from what the Prime Minister said earlier. The Prime Minister was asked today whether there was, as Mike Duffy said, “just the three of us”, Nigel Wright, Mike Duffy and the Prime Minister, and the Prime Minister went back to saying that this meeting happened at a caucus meeting.

Both men are giving completely contradictory information, and in order to do our jobs as parliamentarians, we need to know. We cannot believe both of them, so what is it that we should do? Certainly, if we were dealing with he-said-she-said on some minor matter, this would not be a matter of privilege.

(1540) However, the issue before us is that there is evidence prepared by Corporal Greg Horton, peace officer of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, delivered in court, and an application for a production order that presents evidence that is in clear contradiction to the Prime Minister 's position. The Prime Minister had said in this House, and it was reiterated by his parliamentary secretary on Monday, that Nigel Wright had acted alone. Now, according to the police evidence, we begin to see more names appear of who in the Prime Minister's Office was involved.

That brought us at least Chris Woodcock, David van Hemmen and Benjamin Perrin who knew, and this is from the RCMP. Now, however, after the revelations of the last two days, we see that there are at least 13 key Conservatives who were involved in this deal that may be found to be an illegal payout. Nigel Wright, Benjamin Perrin, Chris Woodcock, Mr. van Hemmen and Patrick Rogers were all directly within the Prime Minister 's Office, and the claim is that Mr. Wright acted without anyone else. The Prime Minister has started to slowly change his position, but he was emphatic in June, and we were led to believe him.

We now know that Senators LeBreton, Tkachuk, Stewart Olsen, Finley and Gerstein were involved in this negotiation. Jenni Byrne was involved. Mike Duffy now tells us that Ray Novak and Senator LeBreton said they were speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister , and what is very troubling is that Mr. Duffy says he was told by them that there would be a deal. If he did not go along quietly, they would have him expelled from the Senate for not meeting the housing requirement; so either Mr. Duffy met the housing requirement or he did not, which again contradicts what the Prime Minister has said previously.

The government House leader yesterday suggested in his answer to the question that one of the precedents I mentioned for 1978 of a similar case cannot be used, because contrary to that case, we do not have an admission of wrongdoing from the Prime Minister of his staff. That argument simply does not hold up, because it is based on the equivalency of saying that anyone can provide false statements to the House as long as they do not admit it. What kind of Parliament would we have if that were the case?

For my colleagues' benefit, let me again mention another precedent, from 2002, when the member for Portage--Lisgar said that the Minister of Defence had misled the House regarding the detention of Afghan prisoners. This case was found by Speaker Milliken to be prima facie case of privilege. Let me quote Speaker Milliken on this: The authorities are consistent about the need for clarity in our proceedings and about the need to ensure the integrity of the information provided by the government to the House.

As the hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst has pointed out, in deciding on alleged questions of privilege, it is relatively infrequent for the Chair to find prima facie privilege. It is more likely that the Speaker will characterize the situation as a dispute of facts. However, in the case before us, there appears to be, in my opinion, no dispute as to the facts. I believe that both the minister and other hon. members recognize that two versions of the events have been presented to the House.

Continuing on, he said: On the basis of the arguments presented by hon. members and in view of the gravity of the matter, I have concluded that the situation before us where the House is left with two versions of events is one that merits further consideration by an appropriate committee, if only to clear the air. Mr. Speaker, we have had such good, judicious rulings through the years. I think this is certainly a very appropriate one to be looking at. In presenting his arguments, the government House leader also mentioned a ruling in 1987 by Speaker Fraser.

Let me quote again from this judgment, because it offers very clear advice on what we should do in the present case: These institutions [Parliament and the courts] enjoy the protection of absolute privilege because of the overriding need to ensure that the truth can be told.... Such a privilege confers grave responsibility on those who are protected by it. By that I mean specifically the Hon. Members of this place. The consequences of this abuse can be terrible.... All Hon. Members are conscious of the care they must exercise in availing themselves of their absolute privilege of freedom of speech.

That is why there are long-standing practices and traditions observed in this House to counter the potential for abuse.

(1545) The freedom of speech that we protect for the members in the House means that neither I nor any citizen of Canada can go to the courts on a case based on something that the Prime Minister said in this chamber. However, as Speaker Fraser said, we do have practices and traditions in this institution that allow us to deal with cases of abuse of freedom of speech, because such abuses can be detrimental to Parliament and to the democratic life of Canadians. This is exactly the situation we are faced with today. It is certainly an unprecedented situation, which is very grave and serious.

That is why I felt the need to rise again. We have to get to the bottom of this disturbing story, and the way to do that is to refer it for an indepth study at the committee on procedure and House affairs. Let me repeat that we are not in the domain of simple assertions here, we are talking about facts that have been brought forward through RCMP investigation, which is that the Prime Minister repeatedly said in the House that no one in his office knew of the Wright-Duffy deal. We now know that it is anywhere from three in his office to 13 key people around the Prime Minister.

In my previous intervention I put forward two possibilities: either the Prime Minister misled the House himself, or his own staff in the Prime Minister's Office had gone rogue behind his back and misled him. Either of these cases is a contempt of Parliament and a breach of the privileges of the members of the House. We cannot, as the government House leader would have it, shove this matter aside and hope it will disappear on its own. We need to shed light on this matter, and the only way to do this is by finding that this is a prima facie case of the abuse of our privilege. Hon.

Peter Van Loan (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that my friend from Timmins—James Bay would like to have the procedure and House affairs committee study this issue, however, for them to do so on the basis of his question of privilege falls far short of the test that you have articulated in the past for meeting that standard.

I would simply add, in response specifically to some of the further comments made by both of the members who spoke today, that I would also point not just to the public statements of the Prime Minister in July that I referred to but to his reference to those statements here in the House today. In fact I point to all of his answers in question period in the House today. All of which have been truthful, clear, direct and open about this, and clearly demonstrate that the basis to this question of privilege simply is not there. I would simply add those points and adopt those as part of my argument here. Mr.

Nathan Cullen (Skeena—Bulkley Valley, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, very briefly, I get the sense from the government House leader's last intervention on this that this has been a moving target in terms of the question of privilege that has been raised by my friend from Timmins—James Bay . More and more damning evidence comes forward every time another senator gives a speech directly contradicting what the Prime Minister has told us in this place, both in the spring and in effect even during today's question period. Mr.

Speaker, I do not know if you have an answer for us at this point, but I would like to get a sense from you as to your own process. Typically the Speaker hears a number of interventions on a question of privilege, takes some time and reflection, and then comes back to the House. However, we feel a certain urgency in being able to establish an important question such as this one, as to whether or not the Prime Minister lied to Parliament. Are you, Mr.

Speaker, seeking further input from the House or do you feel that you are now at the point of satisfaction to be able to go back and reflect upon the testimony as you have heard it and look at the evidence of the blues in Hansard with the Prime Minister 's statements in contrast to some of the facts that we have presented?

(1550) The Speaker : As members are no doubt aware, the government House leader came back to the original point that was raised just last evening. Not that I would go through the entire process of how a ruling comes before the House, however, I am now in the process of going back and looking at the arguments that have been made. We now have the response from the government, further interventions from the member for Avalon and the member for Timmins—James Bay , and again the hon. government House leader. I do not feel I need to hear more on the subject. I think the facts have been laid out.

Certainly if through the deliberations and consultations I feel that there may be the need for more explanation, I can certainly come back to the House and ask for that. However, at this point in time I am satisfied that I have heard the main points of the matter. The member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley did give notice to the Chair of a new question of privilege, and I will give him the floor now.

Use of Official Languages in Departmental Briefing Mr. Nathan Cullen (Skeena—Bulkley Valley, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, I am rising with some reservations on this question of privilege, but I feel the seriousness of the incident in question warrants a formal response and that the Chair is best equipped to deal with this particular matter. Last night, members of Parliament were invited to attend a departmental briefing hosted by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance on the government's budget implementation bill, Bill C-4 , which is set to be debated for the first time this very afternoon.

It is a crucial element for the preparation of members of Parliament, ahead of debating a bill, to actually be able to comprehensively understand what is in the piece of legislation. This is a particularly complex bill by the government, another omnibus motion that includes all sorts of non-budgetary items, as well as those that have some pretense to affect the Canadian economy. [ Translation ] When members arrived, it quickly became clear that there was no simultaneous translation and no intention to fix that problem for the meeting. When we asked the minister's representatives to repeat the bill

summary in French, the parliamentary secretary replied that that was not possible. Very quickly, and as the situation deteriorated, some members began to leave. The meeting ended very abruptly, before the members could really learn anything about the bill in English and before any explanations were given in French. According to Erskine May, the classic definition of parliamentary privilege is as follows: Parliamentary privilege is the sum of the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House collectively...and by Members of each House individually, without which they could not discharge their functions. [ English ]

Section 133 of the Constitution Act, 1867, sets out certain legislative guarantees for parliamentarians when it comes to the use of Canada's official languages. These include the right to use either language in legislative debates, the use of both languages in the official records of Parliament, and the use of English and French in printing and publishing acts. While departmental briefings are not specifically covered by the Constitution Act, university law professor André Braën notes that the purpose of

section 133 is to grant “equal access for Anglophones and Francophones to the law in their language” and to guarantee “equal participation in the debates and proceedings of Parliament”. Bill C-4 , the bill that was being discussed last night in English only, is more than 300 pages long. It was put on members' desks just yesterday morning. A departmental technical briefing was promised so that members could digest some of the information and be prepared to begin debate on the bill this afternoon. That is barely 24 hours to pick apart 300 pages and prepare to debate.

Surely not providing for a bilingual briefing does not allow for equal participation in the debates and proceedings in Parliament. (1555) [ Translation ] In Blaikie v. Quebec, Chief Justice Deschênes of the Superior Court of Quebec upheld the obligation to use English and French at the same time throughout the legislative process, and found that any disruption of that practice violates both the letter and the spirit of

section 133. [ English ] We live in a bilingual country. We debate and pass bilingual laws for a bilingual populace. When members of Parliament are prevented from doing their jobs because one of our official languages is being treated as an afterthought, particularly on something as serious as the budget implementation act, we have a significant and serious problem.

I can only, as an anglophone MP, ask my anglophone colleagues to imagine going to a budget briefing in which departmental officials are made available to describe and interpret very technical pieces of legislation, to find that only French was available both in text and in the presentation. It would not be acceptable to any of us. We would find that to be an incapacity to do our jobs as members of Parliament in only having French available in a briefing that actually mattered to the affairs of the nation.

The reverse is no more acceptable. [ Translation ] I am therefore asking the Chair for a ruling to confirm that this was indeed a breach of members' privileges, and I would certainly be prepared to move the appropriate motion if I am invited to do so. [ English ] I just have one additional comment. I have heard from my colleagues that the text of the actual bill was printed in both official languages. Congratulations for following the basic aspects of the law.

Documents were provided for MPs to understand what the technical text actually meant, because as all members of Parliament will know, in studying a 300-page bill, it does not read like cursive English. It is not prose. It is legislation and law. The understanding of what the law actually indicates needs to be done in such a way that MPs are able to function and perform our duties on behalf of those we represent, whether we are English or French. This is a serious matter. It is fundamental. I can only suggest that it was an error of some judgment or another, but it is the practice of this place.

Again, if the reverse were true and English members of Parliament had a technical briefing on a budget bill that the government only provided in French, with no translation and no opportunity to ask questions in English, my English colleagues, like myself, would be frustrated and somewhat aggrieved at the fact that we could not do our jobs and understand the legislation before us. [ Translation ] Hon. Peter Van Loan (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, the government feels the same way as the House leader of the official opposition about what happened.

We fully intend to meet expectations regarding bilingualism. Documents will be available in both languages and meetings will take place in both official languages. I think there were some issues in the preparation for the meeting last night. [ English ] It is my understanding, and I have been advised, that there were some errors in the preparation for the meeting. There was an expectation and understanding that translation would be available, which was not. This is indeed unfortunate.

It is for that reason that the meeting was cancelled. [ Translation ] The meeting was cancelled last night because of the lack of access to both official languages. A new meeting will be scheduled tonight for all members, in English and French. [ English ] My understanding is that arrangements have been made to reschedule this meeting and to hold it properly in both official languages with that capacity available for everyone. It is certainly the expectation of this government that all business be properly conducted in both official languages.

We apologize for the unfortunate and regrettable error that should not have occurred last night in this regard. We hope that tonight's meeting will provide the proper information in both languages to everyone. For that reason, I am not sure if we have reached the threshold where we actually need to refer this to a committee. The Speaker : I appreciate the intervention by the hon. government House leader. It seems to me that some type of technical problem led to this and that there is a meeting planned later on to make up for it. In the view of the Chair, that seems to resolve the matter.

I am sure that members will take advantage of the meeting being provided to them later on this evening. I see the member for Winnipeg North rising.

(1600) Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib.) : Mr. Speaker, I would just very briefly provide comment on the issue. I recognize and appreciate what the government House leader has put on the record, in essence saying that it was a mistake and something that was not meant to happen. It seems somewhat regretful that it did happen. The fact still remains that we are going to be debating that particular bill today. The reason I bring this up in the fashion that I have is that I believe it is important when legislation is brought forward to the House that the bill debriefings occur in a timely fashion.

Having a bill debriefing within 24 hours of a bill being introduced, at times, does not allow for mistakes of this nature to be correctly handled. We are now going to be entering into the debate, although the critics were never afforded the opportunity to have a debriefing. I just wanted to highlight that particular point.

GOVERNMENT ORDERS Government Orders [ English ] The Speaker : Due to deferred recorded divisions, government orders will be extended by eight minutes. Economic Action Plan 2013 Act No. 2 Hon. Tony Clement (for the Minister of Finance) moved that Bill C-4, A second act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 21, 2013 and other measures , be read the second time and referred to a committee. Bill C-4. Second reading

Mr. Andrew Saxton (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, CPC) : Mr. Speaker, I appreciate this opportunity today to highlight some of the key initiatives in economic action plan 2013 act no. 2. I would like to begin by saying that our government is very proud of the steps we are taking to support the economy through today's legislation. As always, we want an open, public, and timely debate on these measures; we also look forward to a detailed committee study in the House and in the Senate.

In keeping with previous budget legislation under our government, in addition to having the bill studied by the finance committee, we will recommend even further study to the provisions in today's legislation. It is for that reason that we will be asking the following committees to look at certain portions of the bill: citizenship and immigration; human resources, skills and social development and the status of persons with disabilities; and justice and human rights. Indeed, I will move a motion at the finance committee to this effect once second reading is completed by the House.

I hope opposition members will give their support at second reading as an indication that they genuinely want these committees to study the legislation instead of just playing political games. On that note, let me outline why the opposition should support this legislation. Economic action plan 2013 builds on the strong foundation that was laid last year.

In addition to the portfolio of initiatives we have introduced since 2006 with affordable measures to create jobs, promote growth, and generate long-term prosperity, it will help to further unleash potential for Canadian businesses and entrepreneurs to innovate and thrive in the modern economy. Let us revisit the facts. Today Canada has the strongest job growth among G7 countries since the recession. Our unemployment rate is at its lowest level in four years. It is significantly lower than that of the U.S., which is a phenomenon that has not been seen in nearly three decades.

Meanwhile, we have created over one million net new jobs, nearly 80% of which are in the private sector, and our government continues to make new opportunities for Canadians to find employment. Today's legislation does little to detract from this goal. Both the independent International Monetary Fund, IMF, and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, OECD, are projecting that Canada's growth will be among the strongest performances in the G7 in the years ahead. Real GDP is significantly above pre-recession levels and is the best performance in the G7.

While other countries continue to struggle with debt that is spiralling out of control, Canada is in the best fiscal position in the G7. Canada still remains on track to return to balanced budgets n 2015. However, our government has been very clear that we will not raise taxes on Canadians to balance the budget. Unlike the NDP, which continues to push high-tax schemes, our government believes that keeping taxes low means more money in the pockets of hard-working Canadians, and that in turn helps keep our economy strong.

A recent study by KPMG concluded that Canada's total business tax cost, which includes corporate income tax, capital taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, and wage-based taxes is more than 40% lower than it is in the United States. In short, our government has created an environment that encourages new investment, growth, and job creation, and one that ensures Canada has the strongest fiscal position and the lowest business tax costs in the G7.

Having the lowest overall tax rate on new business investment in the G7 translates into Canada having a competitive business tax system, one that plays a key role in supporting businesses in all sectors of the Canadian economy to invest, grow, and thrive. Let me share some highlights of our tax relief initiatives.

Our government has implemented broad-based tax reductions that support investment and growth and is delivering more than $60 billion of tax relief to job-creating businesses over 2008-09 and the following five fiscal years. (1605) [ Translation ] For example, in order to boost investments and productivity, we reduced the federal corporate income tax to 15% from its 2007 rate of 21%.

In addition, the federal capital tax was eliminated in 2006, and the only corporate tax was eliminated for all businesses in 2008. [ English ] Furthermore, we reduced the small business tax rate to 11% in 2008 from 12% in 2007, and subsequently the amount of income eligible for this lower rate was increased to $500,000 in 2009.

Canada's system of international taxation was strengthened in order to better support cross-border trade and investment and to improve fairness. [ Translation ] These measures are part of a policy framework designed to increase our economy's production capacity and improve Canadians' quality of life. Cutting federal corporate income tax and making other tax adjustments boost the assumed rate of return on investment and reduce capital costs. These measures encourage businesses to invest in Canada and hire Canadians.

That approach increases Canada's production capacity and improves Canadians' quality of life. [ English ] Economic action plan 2013 focused on positive initiatives to support job creation and economic growth while returning to balanced budgets, ensuring Canada's economic advantage remains strong today and into the future. However, the job does not end there. Bill C-4 would implement key measures from economic action plan 2013 as well as certain previously announced tax measures to help create jobs, stimulate economic growth, and secure Canada's long-term prosperity.

Our government's low-tax plan is helping to guide the Canadian economy along the path of sustainable economic growth. Bill C-4 builds on our successes and maintains our government's focus on the economy. I would like to discuss three key aspects of the bill today: a continued focus on job creation and support for job creators, a firm response to tax loopholes and tax evasion, and an overall respect for taxpayers' dollars. While we believe in the benefits of lower taxes, our government fully understands that sustaining an effective tax system also rests on the foundation of tax fairness.

That is why economic action plan 2013 is committed to closing tax loopholes that allow a select few businesses and individuals to avoid paying their fair share. Broadening and protecting the tax base supports our government's effort to return to balanced budgets, responds to provincial governments' concerns about protecting provincial revenues on our shared tax bases, and helps give Canadians confidence that the tax system is indeed fair. (1610) [ Translation ] The efforts made to ensure that everyone pays their fair share also help keep taxes low for Canadian families and businesses.

In so doing, there is more motivation to work, save and invest in Canada. [ English ] Since 2006, and including measures proposed in economic action plan 2013, the government has introduced over 75 measures to improve the integrity of the tax system. Today's legislation takes additional steps in support of this objective.

Two examples include further extending the application of Canada's thin capitalization rules—which limit the amount of Canadian profits that can be distributed to certain non-resident shareholders as deductible interest payments—to Canadian resident trusts and non-resident entities, and introducing stiff administrative monetary penalties and criminal offences to deter the use, possession, sale, and development of electronic suppression-of-sales software designed to falsify records for the purpose of tax evasion.

We are also providing the Canada Revenue Agency, the CRA, with new tools to enforce the tax rules to combat international tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance, all while we are taking immediate action to improve the integrity and neutrality of the tax system.

Specifically, economic action plan 2013 does this by streamlining the process for the CRA to obtain information concerning unnamed persons from third parties, such as banks; requiring certain financial intermediaries, including banks, to report to the CRA clients' international electronic fund transfers of $10,000 or more; and introducing a new program to stop international tax evasion that would pay rewards to individuals who report major international tax non-compliance. As the opposition can see, tax fairness is a basic principle that our government is committed to upholding. We make no apologies for doing so.

In fact, we are proud of our record and we are building on it. A level playing field is what Canadian businesses deserve and require, and we are delivering. For example, the Income Tax Act contains a number of provisions intended to constrain the trading of corporate tax attributes among arm's-length persons.

Unfortunately, despite the various provisions intended to curtail the inappropriate trading of loss pools, transactions to circumvent these provisions continue to be undertaken. [ Translation ] Our government understands the need to introduce practical legislative measures to ensure that there are appropriate tax implications attached to these transactions. This bill does just that.

It introduces an anti-avoidance rule to support the existing loss restriction rules that apply on the acquisition of control of a corporation. [ English ] As everyone can see clearly, our government is committed to putting in place the right framework to ensure tax compliance. The Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants had this to say about economic action plan 2013: The budget looks to close tax loopholes, address aggressive tax planning, clarify tax rules, reduce international tax avoidance and tax evasion and improve tax fairness.

It also provides the Canada Revenue Agency with new tools to enforce the tax rules. The statement continued with a strong backing of our initiatives and stated: We support efforts to maintain the integrity of the tax base.... The bottom line is this: our government is committed to fighting tax evasion and giving Canadians a tax system they can have confidence in. There are those who would rather take advantage of the system to skip their fair contribution; Bill C-4 introduces strong new measures to combat this and would ensure that any previously mentioned measures from economic action plan 2013 come to fruition.

Lowering taxes is not the only way our government is furthering taxpayers' dollars. Canadians deserve streamlined services and efficient programs. Today's legislation contains several measures fully in line with our government's respect for taxpayers' dollars.

A few examples include modernizing the Canada student loans program by moving to electronic service delivery, improving the efficiency of the temporary foreign worker program by expanding electronic service delivery, phasing out the labour-sponsored venture capital corporations tax credit, and modernizing service delivery for Canadians by accelerating the move from paper-based to automated passport application e-services. These are all changes that I am extremely proud to speak to.

It is measures like these that demonstrate our government's commitment to making it easier for Canadians to access services that are cost-effective and efficient. While many of the changes in Bill C-4 are technical in nature, many provide clear benefits for Canadians. I know that my constituents back home expect a fiscally responsible government. Let us take the modernization of the Canada student loans program as an example. Students in my riding of North Vancouver rely on this important program to help achieve their goals and make their educational aspirations a reality.

This change in Bill C-4 would not only eliminate a cumbersome and often long process of paper agreements and identification but would also provide the government with approximately $10 million in cost savings per year. It is just common sense to provide a better service to Canadians and while saving taxpayers' dollars at the same time. It is initiatives like this that make bills like today's all the more important to pass.

I have talked about how we are working hard to make our tax system fair and how we are doing everything possible to maximize taxpayer money, but I have not forgotten about an area that Canadians have on their minds: jobs. Quite simply, our government values job creators and we have been working hard with them in recent years to ensure that they are in the best position possible to provide jobs for Canadians. The legislation I have the privilege of speaking about today introduces some new ways our government can support job creation in this country.

Examples include extending and expanding the hiring credit for small business, which would benefit an estimated 560,000 employers; increasing and indexing the lifetime capital gains exemption to make investing in small business more rewarding; expanding the accelerated capital cost allowance to further encourage investments in clean energy generation; freezing employment insurance premium rates for three years, leaving $660 million in the pockets of job creators and workers in 2014 alone. Let me elaborate on one of these measures that I think will have a big impact for small businesses.

(1615) Among the many ways that Canada's income tax system supports small business owners, farmers and fishermen is the lifetime capital gains tax exemption, the LCGE. In order to increase the potential rewards of investing in small business, farming and fishing, economic action plan 2013 proposes to increase the LCGE from $750,000 to $800,000 in 2014. The exemption helps these entrepreneurs better ensure their financial security for retirement and facilitates the intergenerational transfer of their businesses.

In 2007 our government increased the LCGE to $750,000 from $500,000, the first increase in the exemption since 1988. In addition, to ensure the real value of the LCGE is not eroded over time, economic action plan 2013 proposes to index the $800,000 LCGE limit to inflation for the first time ever. The first indexation adjustment will occur for the 2015 taxation year.

This is added security for the small business owner and provides financial freedom to create new jobs. [ Translation ] The initiatives set out in economic action plan 2013 are based on domestic government measures to improve the overall strength of Canada's tax system and to once again demonstrate our government's commitment to using taxpayers' money responsibly. [ English ] With a comprehensive and forward-looking agenda, these initiatives will deliver high quality jobs, economic growth and sound public finances.

Economic action plan 2013 would allow Canada to meet these challenges and emerge from them stronger than ever today and in the future. While the opposition continues to focus on issues that do not matter to Canadians, our government remains focused on the task at hand. Economic growth did not stop at the last budget, or the last budget implementation act, for that matter. We continue to look for ways to maximize taxpayer dollars, increase the efficiency of the inner workings of government and make certain that job creation and economic prosperity are at the forefront of any new legislation.

In this respect, the bill would make significant improvements that would benefit Canadians. I urge members of the House to pass it. Ms. Peggy Nash (Parkdale—High Park, NDP) : Mr. Speaker, clearly the government has not learned from the past. Here we have the fourth omnibus budget implementation act in two years. We have yet another bill that is crammed with changes to 70 laws. It is over 300 pages long. It is a grab bag of the wants and desires of the Conservative caucus.

It contains things that should not be in a budget bill, such as Supreme Court nominations, changes to health and safety legislation for workers and changes to the National Research Council. If my colleague and his caucus colleagues are so convinced that their government is on the right track, why are they hiding all of these changes in an omnibus budget bill rather than presenting them as individual bills?

Why are they using the spin that they are doing such a great job on the economy when almost 300,000 more people are unemployed now than before the recession, growth is slowing and many of our trading partners are outdoing Canada? Our current account deficit is growing and the Conservatives are not dealing with it. Could the member answer that?

(1620) Mr. Andrew Saxton : Mr. Speaker, that was more than one question. That was really a grab bag of a whole bunch of questions. An hon. member: It is like an omnibus question. Mr. Andrew Saxton: That was an omnibus question, Mr. Speaker. I would like to try to address as many of those questions as I can possibly remember. First, the length of this bill is really quite similar to the last four acts that have been introduced over the last number of years, so it is very similar in length.

Second, the vast majority of the items in the bill refer to technical items that were already presented in economic action plan 2013 by the Minister of Finance back in March of this year. It is a lengthy bill because we have a lot of work to do in Canada. We have been extremely fortunate to have weathered the economic storm so well. However, we still are not immune to pressures from outside the country and therefore we have to take measures in order to protect our economy.

To give the House an idea of some of those measures, economic action plan 2013 focuses squarely on the creation of jobs, economic growth and the long-term prosperity of Canadians. It is doing this by connecting Canadians with available jobs, a new long-term $70 billion infrastructure plan over 10 years, which is an precedented amount, investing in world-class research and innovation and much more. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib.) : Mr.

Speaker, every time I hear one of the Conservatives stand and use the phrase “economic action plan”, I have this vision of someone sitting inside the PMO putting a little gold star beside that name. It is almost like it is mandatory, “You will stand up. You will say economic action plan”. Every time the members say it, they get a gold star. I am sure there is someone in the Prime Minister 's Office making note of every time one of the members talks about it. For most Canadians, we see i