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April 13, 2005

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Apr-13 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 13 April 2005 Mercredi 13 avril 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

EASTERN ONTARIO DEVELOPMENT

ROYAL CANADIAN LEGION

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

BLUE MAN GROUP

TOURISM

HEALTH CARE

MOHAWK COLLEGE

VAISAKHI

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

SOCIAL POLICY

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

REGIONAL MUNICIPALITY

OF PEEL ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA MUNICIPALITÉ RÉGIONALE DE PEEL

EASTERN ONTARIO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FUND ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LE FONDS DE DÉVELOPPEMENT ÉCONOMIQUE DE L'EST DE L'ONTARIO

CHILDREN'S LAW REFORM AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI PORTANT RÉFORME DU DROIT DE L'ENFANCE

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

REGION OF PEEL

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

REGION OF PEEL

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

VISITOR

DEFERRED VOTES

LABOUR RELATIONS STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

CONCERNANT LES RELATIONS

DE TRAVAIL

LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FORFEITED

PROPERTY MANAGEMENT STATUTE

LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE L'EXÉCUTION

DE LA LOI ET L'ADMINISTRATION

DES BIENS CONFISQUÉS

ORAL QUESTIONS

HOSPITAL SERVICES

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

MAGNETIC RESONANCE IMAGING

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

GREENBELT

ENERGY ASSISTANCE FUND

HEALTH CARE

FISHING LICENCES

HYDRO RATES

CONSUMER PROTECTION

PETITIONS

ANTI-SMOKING LEGISLATION

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

LANDFILL

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

OPTOMETRISTS

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

ONTARIO FARMERS

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

STUDENT SAFETY

PIT BULLS

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

OPPOSITION DAY

HOSPITAL FUNDING

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

EASTERN ONTARIO DEVELOPMENT

Mr. Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): Later today, I will introduce a bill entitled the Eastern Ontario Economic Development Fund Act. This

bill creates a special fund to assist all communities, except for the city of Ottawa, to the east of the greater Toronto area, which have historically lagged behind the rest of the province in

growth, development and relative wealth.

Municipal governments in eastern Ontario have the same needs as or even higher needs than other parts of our province but do not have either the local tax base

or the personal wealth of their citizens to provide for an adequate infrastructure. The Eastern Ontario Economic Development Fund Corp. would be mandated to invest in municipalities and businesses

in eastern Ontario where the need is greatest. The local tax base, average annual income, and slower population growth statistics would determine the priorities of the corporation.

Like northern Ontario, most of eastern Ontario has not benefited from the significant growth experienced by the rest of our province. It is time for the

government to recognize this fact and assist the municipalities in rebuilding their infrastructure and attracting new industry and jobs to this most important part of our province.

ROYAL CANADIAN LEGION

Mr. Wayne Arthurs (Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge): I rise in the House today to acknowledge the 75th anniversary of the Royal Canadian Legion Branch

170 in Uxbridge. In 1926, 14 World War I veterans from the Uxbridge area applied for a charter with the Canadian Legion, and in May 1930 a charter was granted.

In the beginning, they held their meetings in the old post office and above retail stores in Uxbridge. With more veterans joining after World War II, it was

decided Uxbridge would build their own Legion. With approximately 100 members, branch 170 was built by volunteers in 1950, and rebuilt after a fire in 1953.

Over the next few decades, the Legion members became more active in the community, and membership climbed to 300 by the late 1980s.

I recently attended the 75th-anniversary celebrations, and Branch 170 is eager to let the community know how far they have come since those early years.

Youth theatre, poetry readers, and the cadets use the facility.

Their ladies' auxiliary will also be celebrating their 75th anniversary this year.

Formed in 1967, Uxbridge Branch 170's pipes and drums continues to be a teaching band sponsored solely by the branch.

Branch 170 has just paid tribute to four 55-year members and five 60-year members.

I would invite all members to join me, on behalf of the riding of Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge, in congratulating Royal Canadian Legion Branch 170 and its president,

Jack T. Ballinger, on this impressive milestone.

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I rise today to draw the attention of the House to a problem facing many of my constituents. As

I've mentioned before, doctor shortages are a serious problem in the riding of Haliburton-Victoria-Brock. One of the problems that residents face when doctors retire or close their practices is

what happens to the medical records of their patients and how expensive it is for patients to retrieve those records when they do finally find a new doctor.

In Minden, one of the doctors recently retired, and his patients have had to find new physicians in Bancroft and Bracebridge. When they try to have their medical

records transferred, they find there's a huge cost associated with this.

This is something that Georgina Parkes found out. She had to pay $122 to have her 50-page file transferred. That is $2.40 per page. Patrick Scadden, another of

my constituents, found out that it's going to cost him $175 to transfer his records.

Haliburton county has the second-lowest average income in the province. A lot of seniors live in my riding. This is a significant cost for Gillian Frudenberg and

other seniors to bear.

It's also hard for families. Lisa Farr has been told that it will cost $300 to transfer the files for her family.

All of these people have had to find doctors outside of their communities, and in many ways, they are the lucky ones. But what is going to happen when Minden

finally gets another doctor -- and they will -- and they are able to go to a doctor in their own community? Will they be hit with this charge again?

I would ask the minister to look into this matter on behalf of the many people across the province who cannot afford this extra expense.

I'd like to recognize John and Dana Aruda, and Tyson Sangster, whose birthday is tomorrow, who are up from my riding.

BLUE MAN GROUP

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): On March 31 of this year, the Canadian Actors' Equity Association, the Toronto Musicians' Association --

Local 149 of the American Federation of Musicians -- and the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Locals 58 and 822, announced the launch of a consumer boycott of Blue Man Group

tickets. They were forced to do this because Blue Man Group producers have repeatedly ignored attempts to negotiate contracts with unions specifying base pay, benefits and defined working

conditions.

As we all know, actors and musicians live on very little and their work is never stable and hardly ever permanent. Toronto actors, musicians and theatrical stage

employees demand and deserve -- and I agree with them -- fair working conditions and decent wages.

Blue Man Group must respect labour standards if they want to produce in Canada. They are investing to put up and market the show. They now must invest in the

performers and craftspeople. They are the show.

I ask the public to support this boycott and write to the producer, Blue Man Group, and demand that negotiations commence immediately.

TOURISM

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough): Last year, the Greater Peterborough Area Economic Development Corp., with the help of a $150,000 grant from the

government of Ontario's Tourism Recovery Office of the Ontario Tourism Marketing Partnership Corp. and the Ministry of Tourism, launched what would be a spectacular advertising campaign called "A

Million Miles Away is Just Down the Road."

This campaign was designed to attract tourists from within Ontario to Peterborough and the Kawarthas and to assist with tourism recovery after SARS impacted the

2003 tourism season. Using a mix of television, radio, billboard and magazine advertisements, we targeted our campaign to our identified demographic, women ages 35 to 55.

On February 9, 2005, the Ontario Economic Development Awards took place at the Toronto Marriott Downtown Eaton Centre hotel. The Greater Peterborough Area

Economic Development Corp. took top honours in the tourism advertising campaign category for the A Million Miles Away is Just Down the Road campaign. Congratulations, Peterborough.

I'm very happy to announce that up until the flood, which has only sidetracked us for a moment, the Greater Peterborough Area Economic Development Corp. had a

20% increase in tourism inquiries as a direct result of this campaign. The generous grant from the province of Ontario and the financial and undivided commitment from the city and county of

Peterborough are the largest tourism promotional campaign since the launch of Peterborough and the Kawarthas Tourism.

The Peterborough and Kawartha area is a four-season, five-star tourist destination. I'm proud to promote and help spread this message in any way I can.

HEALTH CARE

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): Over the last two weeks, the Premier and his ministers, no doubt on the advice of their high-priced

guru Warren Kinsella, have been playing fast and loose with the facts around their illegal health tax.

People in good faith believed Dalton McGuinty when he looked into the camera during the last election and said, "I will not raise your taxes." But in his first

budget, he broke that promise. Since then, he has broken many more. From his solemn pledge to fund the treatment of autistic children to his pledge that he would freeze hydro rates, the Premier has

demonstrated that he simply can't be trusted. Each day he comes in here and plays the people of Ontario for fools.

The Premier's lack of a plan for health care has put the system the people of Ontario depend on in jeopardy. Just a week ago or so, his health minister said that

hospitals will offer fewer services in the future, farther from home. This government is spending their illegal health tax dollars this year alone on fewer hospital services, firing nurses, and on

buying back MRIs that were already providing services to patients with an OHIP card.

John Tory has made a commitment to return the money that has been taken illegitimately from the people of Ontario. John Tory will not take one cent out of health

care. John Tory has promised to spend health care dollars wisely and get down to the real work of finding waste in government, something this Liberal government refuses to do. John Tory and the

Ontario PC Party will replace your illegal health tax with a competent government that has a plan for health care.

MOHAWK COLLEGE

Ms. Jennifer F. Mossop (Stoney Creek): I would like to take a moment today to talk about the enhancement of apprenticeship programs at Mohawk

College on the Hamilton Mountain. Hamilton is proud of its tradespeople, who have been, and remain, a dedicated part of the Ontario workforce, providing the backbone of Ontario's economy.

For my community, this government announcement will mean over $2.1 million for modernizing and upgrading equipment at the college. We need to ensure that our

colleges and universities are able to provide the best resources for our students, and this funding will help our colleges achieve that goal by allowing students to train and study on current and

relevant technology and equipment.

There is also an additional $1.1 million in funding for the apprenticeship enhancement program. It's good news for the people of Hamilton and future

apprenticeship students at Mohawk College. The announcement of additional funding for apprenticeship programs, both in Hamilton and across this province, demonstrates our government's commitment to

Ontario's apprentices and our province's future, and to its future economic success.

I want to applaud the good work being done at Mohawk College to train and educate the next generation of hard-working tradespeople in Hamilton and across

Ontario. Young people who consider a career in a skilled trade have a prosperous future ahead, and I'm proud to say that I represent an area that has produced so many of those great workers over

the years.

These initiatives demonstrate a commitment to our tradespeople and to creating a more inclusive workforce for a strong economic future.

VAISAKHI

Mrs. Linda Jeffrey (Brampton Centre): I rise today to recognize an important day in the Canadian Sikh community. April 13 marks the 306th

anniversary of Vaisakhi. It is one of the most important festivals in the Sikh religion, which was founded more than 500 years ago. Vaisakhi began as a harvest festival in the Indian state of

Punjab. However, it gained another dimension when the 10th and last guru, Guru Gobind Singh, founded the order of Khalsa in 1699.

The Sikh religion has a worldwide following of over 20 million people and is ranked as the world's fifth-largest religion. Sikhism preaches a message of love,

understanding, devotion, remembrance of God, truthful living and equality of mankind.

The first Sikh pioneers settled in Canada over 100 years ago, and since then, the Sikh community has become an integral part of Canadian society. Today, more

members of the Sikh community call Brampton home than any other municipality in Canada.

To celebrate this occasion, gurdwaras across Ontario have organized various events, such as parades in Malton and Toronto. In fact, tomorrow I will attend

official ceremonies at local gurdwaras in Brampton and the surrounding areas.

I encourage all members of this House to join me in celebrating this rich culture and important religion.

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

Ms. Deborah Matthews (London North Centre): Our Premier and the Liberal government have taken a bold stand for Ontario. We are fighting for a

new deal for this province. Closing the $23-billion gap will facilitate this new deal.

Today, we launched a Web site that lays out our cause in black and white. It's at strongontario.ca. I encourage the people of London North Centre and indeed all

Ontarians to check out that Web site -- strongontario.ca -- to obtain a better understanding of the challenges Ontario faces because of the $23-billion gap.

For example, Ontario welcomes 57% of all Canadian immigrants, but we get only 34% of the federal funding. The McGuinty Liberals want to help newcomers to

Ontario, because everyone deserves a fair start. Newcomers to Ontario deserve equal access to opportunities.

Furthermore, everyone deserves fair and equal access to post-secondary education in Ontario. Closing the $23-billion gap will help us to provide funding for

post-secondary. This will help Ontarians move forward toward better jobs and a better future. This is the type of investment we are committed to, because we believe in the future of this

province.

This is a message to the people of Ontario: You deserve a better deal. Contact your federal member and ask them why they are shortchanging Ontario. Why is a

first-rate province getting second-rate service from the federal government? We deserve better and we'll stand for nothing less.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): I beg to inform the House that today the Clerk received the report on intended appointments dated April 13,

2005, of the standing committee on government agencies. Pursuant to standing order 106(e)(9), the report is deemed to be adopted by the House.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

SOCIAL POLICY

Mr. Mario G. Racco (Thornhill): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on social policy and move its adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr. Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill as amended:

employment, accommodation, buildings and all other things specified in the Act for persons with disabilities / Projet de loi 118, Loi traitant de l'élaboration, de la mise en oeuvre et de

l'application de normes concernant l'accessibilité pour les personnes handicapées en ce qui concerne les biens, les services, les installations, l'emploi, le logement, les bâtiments

et toutes les autres choses qu'elle précise.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

The bill is therefore ordered for third reading.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

REGIONAL MUNICIPALITY

OF PEEL ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA MUNICIPALITÉ RÉGIONALE DE PEEL

Mr. Gerretsen moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 186,

An Act respecting the composition of the council of The Regional Municipality of Peel / Projet de loi 186, Loi traitant de la composition du

conseil de la municipalité régionale de Peel.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Gerretsen?

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, minister responsible for seniors): To ministerial statements, Mr. Speaker.

EASTERN ONTARIO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FUND ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LE FONDS DE DÉVELOPPEMENT ÉCONOMIQUE DE L'EST DE L'ONTARIO

Mr. Sterling moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 187,

An Act to establish the Eastern Ontario Economic Development Fund Corporation / Projet de loi 187, Loi créant la Société de

gestion du Fonds de développement économique de l'Est de l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr. Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): This bill recognizes that the area of eastern Ontario, east of the greater Toronto area, with the

exclusion of the city of Ottawa, has not benefited from the significant growth and the wealth and the prosperity that the rest of the province of Ontario has. It provides, like the northern Ontario

heritage fund, special help to municipalities and businesses to grow the economic development of eastern Ontario.

I urge all members to support this very vulnerable part of our province. They need help in renewing their infrastructure, and they need help in attracting new

businesses and jobs to this important area of our province.

CHILDREN'S LAW REFORM AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI PORTANT RÉFORME DU DROIT DE L'ENFANCE

Mr. Craitor moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 188,

An Act to amend the Children's Law Reform Act / Projet de loi 188, Loi modifiant la Loi portant réforme du droit de l'enfance.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): Shortly after my election as the MPP for Niagara Falls, I was approached by a number of grandparents, many of

whom are here this afternoon in the members' gallery. They are grandparents who are concerned, they're caring, and they had difficulty in securing legal access through the courts to their

grandchildren. I have since received hundreds of e-mails, letters and personal contacts with loving grandparents who find themselves in this tragic situation.

I am pleased to introduce a bill that would give recognition to the rights of grandparents where, in the opinion of the courts, this would be in the best

interests of the child. My proposed legislation, if passed, will amend the Children's Law Reform Act to emphasize the importance of children's relationship with their grandparents.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): As you know, the McGuinty government is setting the pace as the only

jurisdiction in North America that is committed to replacing coal-fired generation with clean, reliable and sustainable power. We are doing this because we want to protect the best interests of

Ontarians by reducing harmful emissions and cleaning up the air we breathe.

As we move forward to clean up our air, our government is ensuring a reliable supply of energy to power our homes, schools, hospitals and businesses, because a

reliable supply of electricity is what fuels Ontario's economic engine.

You may recall that, back in June, our government launched a request for proposals for 2,500 megawatts of new, clean generation and demand-side projects in

order to help our government meet our commitment to replace coal-fired generation while ensuring a reliable, efficient and affordable supply of electricity. We took a new and innovative approach to

this RFP by not only looking for proposals to build new generation capacity, but also by looking for proposals that would conserve electricity. We believe that a megawatt saved is every bit as good

as a megawatt built.

We were extremely pleased by the enthusiastic response we received to our call for proposals. In total, we received 33 proposals representing over 8,800

megawatts of new capacity, more than three times the amount we were looking for. The RFP process ensures the most cost-effective projects are selected for the ratepayers of Ontario.

I'm pleased to announce today that Ontario will soon benefit from four new electricity projects representing 1,675 new megawatts of clean electricity, enough

to power over 650,000 homes across this province. We are in the process of addressing outstanding contract issues with other selected proponents and will have more to say in the coming weeks.

The four new projects break down to include a highly efficient cogeneration project, two new combined-cycle natural gas-fired generating plants and an

innovative conservation project put forward by Loblaw Properties, Ontario's third-largest consumer of electricity. All the projects announced today are expected to be in service by the end of

I'm also extremely pleased with the value for money that Ontario ratepayers will realize as a result of this highly competitive procurement process. While I

cannot give specifics on prices until all the contracts are finalized with the other selected proponents, I can tell you that the generation projects we are announcing today are among the most

efficient gas-fired plants currently operating in North America. No longer will the risks of developing new generation facilities in Ontario be borne squarely on the shoulders of Ontario's

ratepayers and taxpayers, which in the past has resulted in tremendous debt that our government continues to deal with.

The process we have just completed has brought some new players onto Ontario's electricity scene. The successful outcome of this process is a strong sign that,

on our government's watch, investors are regaining confidence in Ontario's electricity sector. The selected projects I am announcing today are expected to bring an estimated $1.1 billion of new

capital investment to Ontario. That means more jobs and significant spinoff economic benefits to our province. Indeed, this is good news for Ontarians.

Perhaps most significantly, the new electricity projects will address a significant portion of our government's commitment to replace coal-fired generation in

Ontario, and that means significantly cleaner air for all Ontarians to breathe. The two projects near Sarnia will be sufficient to replace most of the capacity of the Lambton coal-fired generating

station. We have already taken measures to ensure that the Lakeview generating station, the first of the five coal plants to be shut down, will close safely later this month. Our plans for the

remaining three coal-fired plants will be announced shortly.

This is the second RFP process our government has concluded. In November, we concluded a request for proposals for 300 megawatts of clean, renewable energy. As

a result of that process, shovels are going into the ground for 10 new renewable energy projects representing 395 megawatts of green power. These projects represent $700 million of new investment

in Ontario and will increase Canada's current installed wind capacity by a staggering 80%.

I'm proud of our government's record to build a clean, reliable supply of electricity, a supply that doesn't include coal. Replacing coal-fired generation with

cleaner sources of energy will reduce emissions equal to taking eight million cars off our roads. In fact, by closing Ontario's five coal-fired stations, we would have to take off every passenger

vehicle and every small truck in Ontario to get a similar reduction, particularly in greenhouse gas emissions. It will mean cleaner air, less smog and clearer skies. It will mean a better quality

of life for Ontarians, for our children and for their children, and it will mean that Ontario will lead the way to show others around the world that indeed it can and will be done.

REGION OF PEEL

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, minister responsible for seniors): To further the McGuinty government's

commitment to building strong communities across Ontario, I'm pleased today to introduce a bill that aims to bring more fairness of representation to the governance of the region of Peel. This

bill, if passed, would also better balance the interests of the three lower-tier municipalities in Peel.

For decades, Peel has been one of Ontario's most effective and efficient regions. It is the first municipality in Canada to achieve the silver level in the

Awards For Excellence from the National Quality Institute, the first government in Canada to be certified at level three in the institute's progressive excellence program.

Today's proposed legislation would ensure that Peel has the tools it needs to continue to succeed in the future. Our government is working to help Peel's

upper- and lower-tier governments work toward even greater service delivery efficiencies. Toward that end, the legislation I'm introducing today is designed, if passed, to help Peel regional

council more realistically represent the population distribution of Peel region. In doing so, it will help to promote more balanced representation on regional council by all three municipalities.

What is more, it will do so without unnecessary restructuring or the dismantling of the region.

Let me give you some background for our proposed legislation. The region of Peel is made up of three lower-tier municipalities: the city of Brampton, the town

of Caledon and the city of Mississauga. In 2004, Brampton's population was approximately 380,000, Caledon's population was 55,000 and Mississauga's population was 689,000. With the current number

of seats that each of these lower-tier municipalities has on Peel regional council, the distribution works out to an average of 63,000 people per regional councillor for Brampton, 69,000 people per

regional councillor for Mississauga, and 11,000 people per regional councillor for Caledon.

Our proposed legislation, if passed, will help to make regional representation fairer for the people of Peel. Our proposed legislation would give Brampton one

additional seat on regional council and Mississauga two additional seats. Average regional representation therefore would work out to 54,000 per regional councillor for Brampton, 57,500 per

regional councillor for Mississauga, and 11,000 people per regional councillor for Caledon.

As the numbers show, our government's proposal for Peel governance offers a fairer, more balanced approach to representation by population. Furthermore, it

ensures that no single lower-tier municipality has voting control or a majority of the regional council. Our goal is to provide the certainty and resolution on governance issues that the

municipalities in Peel region need. Our goal is to help those municipalities get on with what they do best: delivering services that help maintain a quality of life in Peel.

In conclusion, I want to thank the four heads of council -- Mayor Morrison, Mayor Fennell, and Mayor McCallion, as well as Chairman Kolb -- for their

professionalism and co-operation throughout the process.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Responses?

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): Today's announcement really adds more smog to Ontario. Why would I say that? Clearly, their plan is not to replace

the 7,000 megawatts of coal generation that is currently being taken off-line with their promise.

This announcement does nothing to answer four principal questions. Will you keep your election promise to cease coal production in 2007? The answer is no. Will

you have an adequate, reliable source of electricity into the future? No. Will electricity be affordable for the people of Ontario? No. Do you have a plan? No.

There's nothing in this plan for the city of Toronto. There's no mention of the Portlands project. This means that jobs and the economy are at risk for the

city of Toronto.

Perhaps, as the minister said, the most significant statement here is, what is the bottom line, the price to consumers of the province of Ontario?

The real mystery overall and the real fog here is that there's a code language statement called the net revenue requirement, the NRR. Pay attention to this

language. It is code language that the government is going to -- I should say, it's the consumers who are going to subsidize these investments.

The minister's announcement today isn't even collaborated by one of the bidders. If you look at the Calpine Web site, you'll see that even though the minister

in his announcement committed that this power would come on-line by 2007, the Calpine announcement on their Web site shows they'll begin the project in 2005 and the commercial operation won't begin

until 2008.

The minister has admitted here today that Nanticoke and the cessation of the use of coal as a generating power source is not on. It's another broken

promise.

The consumers should be put on notice that there are higher prices in the future.

REGION OF PEEL

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I'm pleased to respond to the statement and the introduction of legislation from the Minister of Municipal

Affairs and Housing. When it comes to municipal policy in this province of Ontario, the government says one thing and does the complete opposite. The Brampton Guardian has an expression for that.

In their editorial they're calling that "Pulling a McGuinty." Certainly on this file, Premier McGuinty has taken a number of different positions.

In June 2004, the Premier said that his government would not be making any restructuring changes in Peel. In July 2004, the Orangeville Banner reported that

the finance minister, Greg Sorbara, confirmed that municipal restructuring was not on the government's agenda. In fact the minister himself, in August 2004, then backtracked and said, "OK,

restructuring is now on the table, but it must be based on a consensus of those involved." But in October 2004, the minister changed his mind once again and said that they're going to hire a

facilitator to mediate a solution on restructuring. December 2004, the esteemed Justice Adams brought forward his report to give Mississauga two councillors and Brampton five. Well, they didn't

flip-flop on the issue for three months, but they sat on it for three months and then again changed their minds and decided that after all, Dalton knows best and he is going to bring in his own

solution.

We know that Brampton MPP Linda Jeffrey had affirmed in March of this year that the government would do nothing unless all three mayors agreed. Well, I guess

she got overruled or didn't know what the minister was really thinking. Strangely, the members from Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale, Mr. Kular, and Brampton West-Mississauga, Mr. Dhillon, are

nowhere to be seen on this file. I think they're waiting to get their speaking notes from David MacNaughton and Don Guy. Then they will know what to say to the paper, but so far they have ducked it

all.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Order.

Mr. Hudak: Here are the risks. The risk by this flip-flopping, this saying one thing and doing another, is the erratic signal it sends to

municipalities. It will beg the question in areas like the region of Niagara, whether they are switching to a population-based system at the same time. Truly, by failing to find a consensus

solution and going back and forth, Dalton McGuinty has prolonged and expanded a deep divide on council, taking considerable energy away from improving regional services like police and roads. In

fact, the most recent scheme risks turning Peel council from what is considered to be a model council to a model of Dalton McGuinty himself: deadlocked, dithering and unable to make tough

decisions.

The Speaker: Order. Before I ask for responses from the third party, I would like the same courtesy extended to the members who are responding

as to the ministers who gave the statement. There is a lot of talk on the government side. I now recognize the member from Beaches-East York.

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): This minister has a very sorry record when it comes to dealing with municipalities. We saw first of all

what you did to the people of Kawartha Lakes by completely rejecting their democratic vote after promising to obey what they had to say. Now we see how you completely ignore the recommendations of

Mr. Justice Adams, who determined, I think quite rightly, that there were problems in Peel, but that your solution has gone nowhere to address them. He recommended that Mississauga and Brampton

were both underrepresented, but his solution was far different from yours. He said to redress this he would give Mississauga two additional seats and Brampton five additional seats. You're OK with

giving Mississauga their two -- and I don't know why they can get their two -- but you have completely underrepresented the people of Brampton, by 80% on what this learned justice had to say.

We don't understand why you're doing this, except that there must be some political pressure, either from your members from Mississauga who overruled the ones

from Brampton, or perhaps from Mayor Hazel, who has more clout in your caucus than Mayor Fennel.

I want to tell you, you gave and the Premier gave Mayor Fennell of Brampton an unqualified statement that there would be no restructuring of Peel. You have

gone back on your word. The people of Brampton participated in good faith and they have now been shafted by you, just as you shafted the people of Kawartha Lakes.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I want to respond to today's embarrassing announcement by the Minister of Energy, and I want to point

out why I think it's embarrassing.

With great fanfare back in September, the Minister of Energy said he was calling for 2,500 megawatts of new generation or demand-side measures. Then in

December, with even more gusto and fanfare, he said there were 33 proposals for 8,800 megawatts. What do we see today? Well, you can barely make 1,500 megawatts. The McGuinty government couldn't

even get enough respondents to meet the proposal of 2,500 megawatts, and this is their plan?

I also want to refer to the other embarrassment. The minister, when asked, "Will this result in the shutdown of a coal-fired station?" tried every which way to

slide around that question, because the answer is no. He referred to Lambton. Lambton provides 1,950 megawatts. What did the minister announce today? Not 1,950 megawatts; barely 1,500 megawatts. No

plan here to shut down a coal station, either.

What is this power? This is privatized power, privatized electricity. It is very expensive power, and when you read the fine print, it turns out to be

overwhelmingly American power. These are corporations some of which got into a lot of trouble in California. For example, the biggest provider of power in the McGuinty plan will be Calpine

Corp.

This is what we consumers in Ontario need to know about Calpine. This is a public report. Calpine was at the absolute centre of the California deregulation

storm. They calmly walked away with a fortune while California consumers re-mortgaged their homes and filed for bankruptcy in response to electricity rates that jumped, in some cases, up to 3,500%.

In California, during the worst of the crisis of 2000, Calpine's profits soared 240%. Calpine earned 23% of total revenue from, ah yes, their partner Enron and their shared accountants, the

infamous Arthur Andersen.

Minister, Calpine Corp. should be going to jail. Instead, the McGuinty government is going to bring them to Ontario as part of the McGuinty government's

electricity plan. This is very expensive electricity. It's at least 10 cents a kilowatt hour wholesale. When you add on transmission charges, distribution charges and all the other new fees and

profits, it's 14 cents a kilowatt hour retail. What does this mean to hard-pressed consumers? The hydro bill goes up. What does it mean for the pulp and paper industry and thousands of workers? It

means the McGuinty government's going to put them out of work, because their hydro rates aren't going to come down; they're going to go up even more.

VISITOR

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): May I draw all members' attention to the members' gallery. In the west members' gallery, we have a former

member from the 46th and 47th Parliaments, Doug Galt, from Northumberland. Let's welcome him.

Interjection: Who's that beside him?

The Speaker: By popular demand, the member beside him is from Lanark-Carleton.

DEFERRED VOTES

LABOUR RELATIONS STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

CONCERNANT LES RELATIONS

DE TRAVAIL

Deferred vote on the motion for second reading of Bill 144,

An Act to amend certain statutes relating to labour relations / Projet de loi 144, Loi modifiant

des lois concernant les relations de travail.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Call in the members. There will be a five-minute bill.

The division bells rang from 1414 to 1419.

The Speaker: Would all members take their seats, please. All in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brownell, Jim

Cansfield, Donna H.

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Hoy, Pat

Jeffrey, Linda

Kennedy, Gerard

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McGuinty, Dalton

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Orazietti, David

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peterson, Tim

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Ruprecht, Tony

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Sorbara, Gregory S.

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those against, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Arnott, Ted

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bisson, Gilles

Chudleigh, Ted

Churley, Marilyn

Flaherty, Jim

Hampton, Howard

Hardeman, Ernie

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Miller, Norm

Munro, Julia

Murdoch, Bill

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Prue, Michael

Runciman, Robert W.

Scott, Laurie

Sterling, Norman W.

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tory, John

Witmer, Elizabeth

Yakabuski, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 57; the nays are 28.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Shall the bill be ordered for third reading?

Hon. Christopher Bentley (Minister of Labour): I would ask that the bill be referred to the standing committee on social policy.

The Speaker: So ordered.

LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FORFEITED

PROPERTY MANAGEMENT STATUTE

LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE L'EXÉCUTION

DE LA LOI ET L'ADMINISTRATION

DES BIENS CONFISQUÉS

Deferred vote on the motion for second reading of Bill 128,

An Act to amend various Acts with respect to enforcement powers, penalties and the management of

property forfeited, or that may be forfeited, to the Crown in right of Ontario as a result of organized crime, marijuana growing and other unlawful activities / Projet de loi 128, Loi

modifiant diverses lois en ce qui concerne les pouvoirs d'exécution, les pénalités et l'administration des biens confisqués ou pouvant être confisqués au profit de la

Couronne du chef de l'Ontario par suite d'activités de crime organisé et de culture de marijuana ainsi que d'autres activités illégales.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

Interjection: Same vote?

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): It doesn't seem so. Same vote? No.

The division bells rang from 1423 to 1428.

The Speaker: Mr. Kwinter has moved second reading of Bill 128. All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the

Clerk.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Arthurs, Wayne

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bisson, Gilles

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brownell, Jim

Cansfield, Donna H.

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Chudleigh, Ted

Churley, Marilyn

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duncan, Dwight

Flaherty, Jim

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Hardeman, Ernie

Hoy, Pat

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Jeffrey, Linda

Kennedy, Gerard

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McGuinty, Dalton

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Munro, Julia

Murdoch, Bill

O'Toole, John

Orazietti, David

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peterson, Tim

Phillips, Gerry

Prue, Michael

Pupatello, Sandra

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Scott, Laurie

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Sorbara, Gregory S.

Sterling, Norman W.

Takhar, Harinder S.

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tory, John

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 84; the nays are 0.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Shall the bill be ordered for third reading?

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): Mr. Speaker, I ask that the bill be referred to the standing

committee on justice policy.

The Speaker: So ordered.

ORAL QUESTIONS

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Premier. In an effort to listen directly to the people of Ontario, we have

invited Ontarians to submit questions, through our Web site, that they want answered by you and by your Liberal government. Many of those writing to us have already written to you, and they've

received back exactly the kinds of non-answers we're used to every day, so they can be welcomed to the club.

Ruthie Zaionz of Thornhill writes: "How exactly [does] Premier McGuinty intend to fulfill his promise to shorten the backlog for knee/hip replacement surgery?

At the moment, it is a nine-month wait."

Premier, how do you respond to Mrs. Zaionz?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): My compliments to the writer of the question. I would argue that she's

putting in doubt the writers of my colleague's questions.

Let me just say that we have, for the first time as a government in the history of this province, decided to move forward on reducing wait times. No government

has ever taken that on. We started by commissioning a report which gives us some good, reliable baseline information. That has now been made available. That information indicated, by the way, that

wait times got worse under the Tory government.

What we have done now, to begin, is invest $107 million. Part of the return on that investment has been 1,680 more hip and knee replacement surgeries

already.

Mr. Tory: I'm sure that Mrs. Zaionz is sitting at home, sympathetic to the fact that you gave me a lot of very interesting facts but didn't

address, to any extent whatsoever, what has happened with the wait list for her. She has already had to wait four months to get a consultation, and now she has been told that she will have to wait

another nine months for the knee replacement surgery.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Minister, I'd like you to come to order.

Mr. Tory: Her surgeon, who is the head surgeon at a major hospital in downtown Toronto, told her he is only allowed five hours of operating

room time per week.

Premier, Ontarians like Mrs. Zaionz simply don't see any improvement in wait times, despite all of your talk and despite your illegal health tax. Given that

hip and knee replacement is one of your priority areas, why does Mrs. Zaionz have to wait over a year for her surgery? Where's the improvement you talked about?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: The honest answer is that it takes a long time to turn around the mess we inherited from a government that refused to

dedicate itself to getting wait times down.

With respect to the issue of consultations, we've heard that in many instances, that was the result of a cap on the fees we were paying through OHIP to our

specialists. The member will know that as a result of our new agreement with Ontario doctors, we are lifting that cap. That's going to result in a more rapid response to consultations.

Again, I would say to my friend, how is he going to help this particular individual by taking $2.4 billion out of health care? How is that some comfort and

satisfaction? You've got to make some tough decisions in this job. One of those is making an investment of $2.4 billion. We've made that investment. It wasn't an easy thing to do, but we believe it

is the right thing to do. My friend may decide that he's going to take $2.4 billion out of the system, but --

The Speaker: Thank you. Final supplementary?

Mr. Tory: I'd say the one who has some explaining to do is the Premier, who made one set of your so-called tough decisions to get yourself

elected and then had another completely different set of decisions to make when you got here. It's a complete disgrace.

I would say to you that Mrs. Zaionz doesn't think it's right that she's being forced to pay your illegal health tax and then is told she's going to have to

wait for more than a year to get her knee replacement surgery.

Interjections.

The Speaker: I would ask the members to come to order. I'm having difficulty hearing the leader of the official opposition.

Mr. Tory: The Canadian Medical Association released benchmark wait times for hip and knee replacements last week.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Order. When I stand up and have made an order, I'd like it to be respected. I don't want the heckling of the member.

Mr. Tory: The Canadian Medical Association released benchmark wait times for hip and knee replacements last week. When I asked you about

those, you refused to commit your government to achieving those wait times. They recommend a total wait time, including the consultation and everything else, of nine months for routine cases and no

more than 90 days for semi-urgent cases. Premier, will you commit to meeting those recommended wait times by the end of your mandate, for the sake of people like Mrs. Zaionz -- yes or no?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I can tell you that there are a number of bodies that have been forthcoming with respect to their particular take and their

particular advice when it comes to wait times. We will take that advice into consideration.

Let me tell you about some of the commentary that we have already received because of our work on wait times.

Dr. Robert Bell, from Princess Margaret Hospital, said, "What would have been an eight- to 10-week wait for cancer surgery, wait for MRI scan and wait for an

initial consultation and diagnosis have been reduced to less than three weeks."

Joe de Mora, president of Kingston General Hospital, says, "The new equipment means we will be able to serve patients through quicker processing while

producing clearer images that will result in more rapid diagnoses, thereby reducing wait times."

Julia Dumanian, CEO of Cambridge Memorial Hospital, says, "The current waiting time of three months for outpatient elective scans will be eliminated."

We are making progress. We'd like to move more quickly, but given the terrible state of the foundation we inherited, it is unfortunately taking longer than we

would have liked.

The Speaker: New question.

Mr. Tory: I have no idea whatsoever how the Premier can claim that there's any improvement taking place when he couldn't even answer last week

where he started on the wait lists. Premier, your plan for reducing wait times looks like no plan at all. Last week, your Minister of Health said, "Hospitals will not be operating with as broad a

range of services as they're tending to right now."

Premier, why are people paying your huge, illegitimate tax increase and yet being offered less service at the hospitals?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Again I say to the member, I don't understand, and neither do the people of Ontario, how taking $2.4 billion out of

Ontario's health care system is going to make our health care better for the people of Ontario. Let me say that so far, with respect to hospital funding, we have invested another $1.7 billion. In

total, we've invested in health care close to three billion additional dollars.

With respect to wait times, we've done something that is without precedent. We have commissioned a study to give us baseline information. Beyond that, we are

also putting in place a health quality council that will report to Ontarians on an annual basis as to our progress. We've already put in place 1,680 more hip and knee replacements, 1,700 more

cancer surgeries, 7,800 more cardiac procedures and 2,000 more cataract procedures. We are making progress, and we are determined to do more.

Mr. Tory: Doesn't it just tell Mrs. Zaionz and everybody else that you have done something without precedent -- you've commissioned a study?

Fantastic.

We heard some talk yesterday about Mr. Martin being out of touch. When you talk about the $2.4 billion, what people out there are wondering is why they're

paying your $2.4 billion illegal health tax and yet getting less service. You've already cut out funding for eye exams, for physiotherapists and for chiropractors. In every single sense in the

health care system, people are paying more and getting less.

Premier, last week your minister said, "We don't need to do hip and knee replacements in 57 different hospitals." Can you tell us which hospitals will be

cutting out hip and knee replacement operations?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I think people want to know that if you take $2.4 billion out of health care, what are the consequences of that? That is

the solemn, unwavering, unequivocal commitment of Mr. Tory, and I think they're entitled to know what it means. It means shutting down 10 large hospitals. It means firing 6,000 nurses. It means

shutting down 49 hospital MRIs. It means 5,000 fewer hip replacements, 6,000 fewer knee replacements, 5,000 fewer cardiac surgeries, 3,000 fewer cataract surgeries and 2,000 fewer radiation

treatments. It means that 50,000 children will not receive their vaccinations, and it means shutting down, in short order, 20,000 long-term-care beds. That's what it means.

We've invested $2 billion overall in health care; $1.7 billion into our hospitals. We've reduced wait times, we've increased volumes, we're rolling out our

family health teams shortly and we've put in place funding for more than 3,000 new nurses. We've done a lot, and this is just the beginning.

Mr. Tory: The Premier obviously believes that the more times he reads that list, it might actually become true. It's totally preposterous and

you know it.

Ruthie Zaionz has already waited over a year to have her knee replaced, and now --

Interjection.

The Speaker: Minister of Health, could you come to order, please.

Mr. Tory: Ruthie Zaionz is already waiting over a year to have her knee replaced, and now your health minister says there will be fewer

hospitals offering the service. How does this fit with your plan to reduce wait times? It sounds like you're making it up as you go along. I want you to stand in your place today and guarantee

Ruthie Zaionz that wait times will not increase for hip and knee replacements. Can you do that, that they will not increase? Guarantee it.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Of course. What we're talking about here is finding a way to bring about more efficient use of our limited health care

I don't understand how my friend opposite could be against us finding a way to consolidate services and improve efficiencies. He wants to take $2.4 billion out

of health care. He wants to introduce more private health care. I mean, there's a clear, sharp, stark contrast. The people of Ontario should understand that.

We made a difficult decision to put $2.4 billion more into their health care system. We put $3 billion more into health care overall, $1.7 billion more into

hospital funding. We put in place funding to hire 3,000 more nurses. I have listed the thousands of additional volumes we found for surgeries. They want to take $2.4 billion out of health care.

They want to introduce more private health care. Therein lies the contrast for Ontarians to consider.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. During the election, Premier, you promised ordinary Ontario families,

"Your hydro will remain in your hands." You said, "We're going to build generation in the province of Ontario." Who? Ontario Power Generation, like we did for 50 or 60 years. That was the people's

choice, Premier.

Today, you unveiled your so-called plan for future hydroelectric generation in the province of Ontario, and it clearly wasn't the people's choice. It's

obviously President's Choice: private power, expensive power, American power and, unbelievably, public money for Loblaws Corp. Premier, tell hydro consumers in the province, who are already paying

for your broken promises, just how much this private, expensive American power is going to cost them on their hydro bill.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): Today we announced the ability to close down the Lambton coal-fired plant in

a cost-effective, efficient and safe way.

Number 2, the member doesn't want companies like Loblaws to turn down their power at peak time. He doesn't understand what demand response is. That's because

his government cancelled all conservation programs. What happens with that proposal is that, when the power peaks at peak times, Loblaws will save 10 megawatts, savings which will accrue to every

ratepayer in Ontario. There will be a net savings to them. It's good public policy. It will result in lower prices for consumers in the short term and in the long term, and as Mr. Gibbons of the

Clean Air Alliance said today, this is a very cost-effective way of bringing cleaner, more reliable energy on to Ontario's grid in a responsible fashion.

Mr. Hampton: I think it's clear now why the Premier ducked the question. He doesn't want to admit how expensive this power is going to be, and

he doesn't want to admit that there's not enough new electricity supply here to shut down even the Lambton coal generation station, never mind Nanticoke coal generation station.

Premier, last summer, you promised 2,500 megawatts of new electricity. There's barely 1,500 megawatts of new electricity here. During the election, you

guaranteed people. You said, "We will keep the rate of electricity at 4.3 cents a kilowatt hour." Now you've already raised it by 34%. Today your energy minister refused to answer the question: How

much is this going to cost consumers, businesses, industry? So I'm going to ask you, Premier, again, how much is this going to cost hard-pressed industries like the pulp and paper industry,

businesses and hydro consumers? How much is it going to drive up their hydro rate even more?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: Again, I reject the presupposition in the question. First of all, hydro rates for the average consumer have gone up between

6% and 7%, not 34%, as he would have you believe. Wholesale market prices have gone down fully 19% since we assumed office.

I announced this morning, and I said again in my statement to the House today, that there are contracts, the final wording of which is being finalized with

additional proponents. I expect that those announcements will be forthcoming very shortly and at that time we will provide the price information that was requested.

I would suggest that this project to bring on cleaner, more reliable forms of power as we move forward ought to be the thing that this province celebrates as

we clean up our air, move to secure our supply of electricity and ensure that this province's electricity future is well managed. We are doing that, unlike the member opposite.

Mr. Hampton: The reality here is that even wholesale, this electricity is going to cost 10 cents a kilowatt hour. The reason you weren't able

to announce more generation today is because the other bids that you got are for even higher rates, and you don't want to admit to the people of Ontario how high this is going to drive the

electricity bill. I repeat again, this won't even allow you to shut down the Lambton coal-fired station, never mind the big polluter, Nanticoke.

But what today really shows is that you haven't learned a thing from the deregulation fiasco in California. Who was at the centre of that? Calpine Corp., in

partnership with those crooks at Enron and the crooked accountants, Arthur Andersen. And whom are you inviting into Ontario now as your saviour? Calpine Corp., after they racked up 240% profits in

California while people were being gouged.

I say again to the Premier, you owe it to the hydro consumers of Ontario; you owe it to the paper mill workers who are already losing their jobs: How much more

is this going to force up the price of electricity in Ontario?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: Again, the member opposite only gives half-truths in his statement. First of all, Calpine Corp., for members who are

interested, operates --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Order. There was some unparliamentary language and I'd ask you to withdraw it.

Hon. Mr. Duncan: I will withdraw.

The member opposite doesn't provide the whole story. Calpine operates in 21 US jurisdictions and three Canadian jurisdictions. Calpine is part of the Standard

& Poor's 500 Index. It has more disclosure requirements than any public utility in Canada. Calpine was caught up in the California situation, as was, by the way, BC Hydro. Subsequent to the

member's diatribe, we just confirmed that in fact, after the crisis, Calpine came into the California market and brought on 3,500 megawatts of power very quickly.

The process we set up ensures that, unlike the NUGs agreement they entered into 10 years ago, which consumers are starting to pay for this year to the tune of

two cents a kilowatt hour, they won't be stuck with the same kind of bill the NDP have left them well into the future.

The Speaker: New question?

Mr. Hampton: For the Premier again: One of the things you promised was a culture of conservation. But what did we get today? Public money for

Loblaws Corp. Here's the story from the insider's report: In the third quarter alone of last year, Loblaws had a profit of $258 million. Today, hydro ratepayers found out that they are going to be

subsidizing Loblaws Corp. on their hydro bill. No subsidy for low-income people who can't pay their hydro bill, nothing for paper mills and pulp mills that are closing, but Loblaws Corp., with a

quarterly profit of $258 million, is now going to get a subsidy from hydro ratepayers. Premier, is this what you meant by a culture of conservation? You funnel money from hydro ratepayers to

wealthy corporations like Loblaws.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: The Minister of Energy.

Mr. Duncan: The problem with a question like that is that no one's ever done this before.

Laughter.

Hon. Mr. Duncan: They laugh, but you know, they don't laugh when we're at peak demand times. They don't laugh when prices -- and that's when

prices are highest.

The Loblaws proposal is an outstanding example of what some of our large industrial users can do to contribute to solving some of our electricity supply

challenges, not through the building of new generation facilities, but through innovative load shifting at critical times of peak demand that will benefit all ratepayers. I believe that if the

member understood what he was saying, he would not have asked the question. Given the member's history and given the fact his party cancelled all conservation and demand-side initiatives, we

shouldn't be surprised at how ill-informed the question is and how wrong its supposition is. This is a good proposal that shifts demand from peak time to less peak time, and will lower prices for

all ratepayers in Ontario.

Mr. Hampton: It's the Premier who has been waxing on about a culture of conservation, and he wouldn't even answer that question. I want to say

to the Premier, there must be a problem with your culture of conservation, because you've been telling people and you've been telling the media that as you raise electricity rates, hydro consumers

and businesses will engage in conservation to save electricity and save money. Well, here is a very wealthy corporation that has the money to do it themselves, and yet you have to take money out of

the pockets of hard-pressed hydro consumers to subsidize them. Premier, there must be something wrong with your theory. There must be something wrong when raising hydro rates by 34% doesn't drive

Loblaws Corp. to engage in conservation. Instead, you have to take money out of the pockets of ordinary Ontarians and give it to a very profitable Loblaws. What is wrong with your theory,

Premier?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: There's nothing wrong with the theory of demand-side management. The only thing the member doesn't understand is how it

works. By shifting demand from peak time to low peak time, it saves money for all consumers because prices are highest at peak time. The NDP has been all over the board on this. As recently as

March 2005, Marilyn Churley in a press release said the government should show leadership in promoting energy conservation and sustainability. Everyone agrees that this kind of proposal is exactly

the kind of demand-side initiative we ought to be engaging in. It is just as efficient to save a megawatt of power as it is to build a megawatt of power. They don't understand it; they don't get

it; we do. This is part of Ontario's future. It saves small consumers money time over time.

Mr. Hampton: I understand the need for electricity efficiency and conservation. I understand the low-income family that has a refrigerator

that is not electrically efficient, that uses three times as much electricity as a new modern refrigerator, and that that family could use a low-interest loan so they can take that old clunker in

and buy a new electricity-efficient fridge.

I understand that paper mills and pulp mills that are laying off workers and shutting down have come to your government and said, "There's something wrong

here. The Hydro dam down the river from us produces electricity for a cent and a half a kilowatt hour. Why are we paying six-and-a-half cents a kilowatt hour?" They need a plan. I'll tell you,

Premier, Loblaws, with a quarterly profit last year of $258 million, doesn't need public money. According to your strategy, they should be doing conservation on their own. I say, Premier, where is

the conservation plan for low-income Ontarians? Where is the conservation plan for small businesses? Where is the conservation plan for school boards?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: The member opposite forgets that a year ago we passed Bill 100 and we incented local distribution companies a quarter of a

billion dollars to implement those precise programs, and they're being set up all over the province. What did that member and his party do? They voted against it. They voted against the most

sweeping conservation program in the history of the province of Ontario, and worse yet, when they were the government, they cancelled every conservation program that the old Ontario Hydro was

operating. That member voted against the most sweeping program in the history of this province, one that will benefit low-income consumers and small businesses.

They are all over the board. They've got old, tired ideas that have been relegated to that side of the House for a long time. We are dealing with a major

problem in a responsible way that benefits small and large consumers and will ensure this province's economic viability and competitiveness for years to come.

MAGNETIC RESONANCE IMAGING

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): My question is for the Minister of Health. Minister, you promised the people of Ontario that

you would reduce wait times for MRIs and that you would set maximum wait times for this procedure. However, the Ontario Association of Radiologists states that for 94% of patients, that wait time

is inappropriately long, and 90% of radiologists say that you have made little or no progress in reducing those wait times.

<A NAME = "PARA455"></A>Minister, what is an acceptable length of time for a patient to wait for an MRI in Dalton McGuinty's Ontario?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I find it interesting that the honourable member, who represents a party that

was part of a government that left the Champlain district behind when it came to MRIs, would have the audacity to ask a question like that.

Which government in the province of Ontario has introduced two new MRIs in the Ottawa community for the constituents that the honourable member represents?

It's this government, led by that honourable member. Since we came to office, we've increased access to MRIs by 20%. Currently in Ontario hospitals, we're replacing seven MRIs and an astonishing 28

CT scans to further enhance capacity.

On the issue that the honourable member speaks about, wait times and what is appropriate, as the Premier said in answer to a question earlier, there is no

established, agreed-upon wait time. But this weekend, working with all health ministers from across the country, we're working to deliver on the promises made at the first ministers' meeting after

the Premier went and got us some extra money.

Mr. Yakabuski: I'd like to draw the minister's attention to a letter I received from a constituent of mine, Mr. Edward Evans from Arnprior. I

might point out that you also promised to treat our seniors with respect and dignity. Mr. Evans is a senior and a World War II veteran who gave five years in service to this country.

An MRI for Mr. Evans was ordered at the end of February, and he is expected to wait until December 5 for this procedure at the Queensway Carleton Hospital. On

top of that, Mr. Evans, a senior veteran, is paying $544 in the McGuinty government's punitive health tax.

Mr. Minister, is this how you treat seniors and World War II veterans in Ontario with respect and dignity?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: In answer to the honourable member's question, I am proud to stand and defend our government's record as it relates to

seniors. The reality for any Minister of Health in our country is that the patients are our consumers, our customers, and the obvious reality is that those are disproportionately seniors. If you

look at the investments we've made -- the $107 million that the Premier spoke about, hips and knees, cataracts, cardiac, cancer, access to the important diagnostic services of MRIs and CT scans --

who are these services targeted at but our seniors? Add to that a $200-million investment in long-term care to clean up a real big mess that you fellas left behind, and, in addition to that, $103

million for enhanced service to home care, $29.2 million for things like community supports, Meals on Wheels, drives to local appointments and all of that.

We are the government that is dedicated to improving the quality of health care for our seniors, exactly because of the emotion that the honourable member

brought in his question.

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a question for the Minister of Community Safety. Almost six months ago, Wyann Ruso walked into

a Toronto police station, told them her husband was threatening to kill her and presented them with the gun she found. The police told her not to go home and that they would arrest him, but they

never did get to it that day. Hours later, she was attacked with an axe and a hammer, and her husband has been charged with attempted murder. Then-police chief Fantino, now your emergency

commissioner, publicly admitted mistakes were made and said the matter would be investigated, but to date there is no evidence of that happening. Will you call for an investigation so we can find

out what went wrong that day, so we can remedy it and make sure it never happens again?

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I thank the member for the question. You should know, and I'm

sure you realize, that we as a government have really done a lot to deal with women in abusive situations. We've introduced ODARA, the minister has programs that are there, and we certainly

understand the problem.

Having said that, in this particular case there are remedies that are out there. The police are conducting an investigation. I understand that the

investigation has been completed. The results have not been released. The people representing the particular person -- and I don't want to get involved with specific cases -- have the opportunity

of querying the police as to what the results of that investigation are. If they don't get a satisfactory answer, they can go to the Toronto Police Services Board and ask them. If they don't get a

satisfactory answer there, then there is also the provision to go to OCCPS. All of these things are available and they're available without my intervention.

Ms. Churley: Minister, this was a very, very serious attack, and you're standing there and saying that there was an investigation and you

don't know anything about it? Miss Ruso knows nothing about it. Her lawyers know nothing about it. Tell that to Miss Ruso today.

Under the Police Services Act, you can direct the Ontario Civilian Commission on Police Services to investigate matters you deem important. It's been almost

six months since Wyann nearly lost her life, and she still doesn't have any answers. She has not heard from the police. She joined me in a press conference this morning and here's what she said: "I

thank God I survived, and I will do anything I can to make sure no other woman has to go through what I did."

Minister, there is wide-spread concern that this is a systemic problem across the province. We need answers, and we need them from you, the minister

responsible. I ask you again, will you call an investigation so we can get answers and Wyann Ruso can get answers?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: Under

section 25 of the Police Services Act, I have the ability to request, not to direct. I can't direct anybody to do

anything under that act. I can request that they do it. But there are several other steps before I could even consider that. I've laid those out to you. You're asking me to supersede all of the

procedures that are in place. You're asking me to make a decision based on information that is not available to me, and I'm saying to you there is a process in place. It is there and we are

watching it very closely, but the parties have the ability to get redress before I have to make that request.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Ms. Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): My question is for the Minister of Energy. Today you announced four successful proponents in the

government's request for proposal for 2,500 megawatts of new generation. Two of these projects, totalling 1,575 megawatts of new generation, will be built in my riding of Sarnia-Lambton. I know

that the Premier and this government are committed to putting Ontario's electricity supply on a reliable and secure footing. Minister, what kind of impact will these two new plants have on the

generating capacity of electricity in the province of Ontario?

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): Our government, under the leadership of Premier McGuinty, is moving forward

to protect the interests of all Ontarians by ensuring a reliable, safe and adequate supply of electricity.

The 1,675 megawatts we announced today will allow us to close the Lambton coal-fired station and allow us, indeed, to help begin to clean up the air in this

province. There will be $1.1 billion invested in Ontario as a result of these four projects, which will create literally hundreds of jobs during the construction phase. There are unique

cogeneration demand-side management programs in this successful RFP, which will benefit all consumers, especially small consumers, as Jack Gibbons of the Ontario Clean Air Alliance said today. So

we're going to have lower-cost power and a much more reliable source of power, and all cost overruns will now be paid by private investors, not by electricity consumers.

We welcome his support of this initiative. We welcome the $1.1 billion in investment in new, clean electricity, and we're glad that the people of

Sarnia-Lambton are joining with us in support of cleaning up our air and land.

Ms. Di Cocco: Minister, the Premier and our government have an ambitious plan to phase out coal-fired generating stations. Today's

announcements will go a long way toward helping the government achieve our targets for reliable supply, while leading to cleaner air and a healthier Ontario. What other projects are currently in

the works that will continue to help this government meet its commitment?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: After years of inaction, we have acted swiftly to bring new supply and conservation to Ontario. First, we completed a

renewables RFP by signing contracts for 395 megawatts of renewable energy, an 85% increase in Canada's wind capacity. We announced the first four winning bids for a second RFP of 2,500 megawatts of

clean energy and demand management. We approved the refurbishment of Pickering A unit 1, which as of today is on time and on budget. We approved the construction of the Niagara tunnel, a

$700-million project that will increase the capacity at Niagara Falls. We've announced a number of conservation initiatives, including a plan for smart metres, which will be in place in this

province by 2010. Through my colleague, the Minister of Natural Resources, we announced a waterpower site release policy to encourage new hydro development, something neither the Conservatives nor

the NDP did.

This government is now bidding on the lower Churchill, again to bring clean, renewable, sustainable electricity to Ontario. This government is moving quickly

and positively to address our energy situation.

GREENBELT

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): A question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Thomas Kugler is a Niagara-on-the-Lake farmer who

wants to purchase a 22-acre plot of land to farm grapes. He has invested funds in new vines, and he has a commitment from Strewn Winery to purchase the grapes. But do you know what he found out

when he went to the Niagara-on-the-Lake town council? Your greenbelt plan stops him from growing grapes and moving forward with his project. He still needs to level the land, do the tile draining

and plant in time for June to grow his crop. Can you guarantee us today that your greenbotch scheme will not prevent this farmer from turning a fallow field into grape production?

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, minister responsible for seniors): Once again, I would like bring to this

member's attention the fact that we're not stopping anyone from doing agriculture on the greenbelt. The land he's talking about can be farmed immediately.

What we have done, and what we have said in order to protect good agricultural land for farming in the future on the greenbelt, is put certain limitations on

the number of acres into which properties can be divided. The acreage in the greenbelt area, in the tender fruit belt area of Niagara, is 25 acres minimum. We have the best advice on that from the

Ministry of Agriculture, from the agricultural advisory committee, who basically said you should not have property holdings of less than 40 acres in order to be viable economic farming

entities.

But there's absolutely nothing about the land this gentleman or the member is talking about that it can't be farmed on the greenbelt, which is what we want to

have happen there.

Mr. Hudak: A bit of a puzzling response from the minister. No doubt, this farmer, among others, will probably wonder, if he had a $10,000

cheque for a fundraiser, would he receive a different answer?

Minister, you just said that the severance size must be 25 acres. Unless you've changed your policy and haven't announced it -- your policy, as I understand

it, is 40 acres. Fair enough.

Len Troup from the tender fruit growers, Ray Duc from the grape growers, Mayor Burroughs from Niagara-on-the-Lake, Mayor Hodgson from Lincoln, Peter

Partington, chair of the region, grape growers and farmers have all said that the minimum acreage should be 25 acres or less. If they all said that, upon what scientific basis did you arbitrarily

say it should be 40 acres?

Hon. Mr. Gerretsen: As a matter of fact, the member is correct. It's 40 acres. If I said 25 acres, I was mistaken; it's 40 acres. That's

what's in the plan right now. The recommendation was 50 acres, but as a result of meeting with the various councils of the area, that's the number we agreed upon so that viable farming could

continue to be done within the tender fruit land areas.

What this member doesn't understand is that he's against the greenbelt. His party voted against the greenbelt. He doesn't want the greenbelt, but we are very

proud of the fact that we've added a million acres of land to the greenbelt area so that it can be preserved for natural resource purposes and for agriculture in the future. But if the sizes of the

farms simply become too small, on the best advice of the Ministry of Agriculture and of the advisory committee for agriculture that was set up, farming will simply become no longer viable. That's

why we agreed it was going to be 40 acres in that particular area of the greenbelt.

ENERGY ASSISTANCE FUND

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Premier of Ontario. Today your Minister of Energy announced big new plans to help

private electricity providers make scads of extra money. In contrast, last year you created the emergency energy fund, a paltry $2-million pot for Ontario's working poor to assist them when rising

prices prevent them from paying their utility bills.

Premier, the Ministry of Community and Social Services Web site states that you will "provide help to low-income Ontarians, including social assistance

recipients and people with fixed incomes, facing energy-related emergencies." Today my office called the city of Toronto, which administers the fund for residents of this city, and was told that

social assistance recipients do not qualify. Social assistance recipients have had a 30% decrease in their real income since 1990, and they do not qualify. The working poor are not getting the

money either. We need to know --

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Time has run out. Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I'm going to refer that to the Minister of Community and Social

Services.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I appreciate the question from the

member opposite, because it's important to note that in our government, for the first time, we understand that a policy shift in one area of the government may well impact on another part of the

government. It's important that we prepare for that.

When we began looking at electricity policies, we started a year ago with the development of several features to help people of low income. The emergency

energy fund was an important piece of that so that we can prepare in case people need additional help. Moreover, in my Ministry of Community and Social Services we have also expanded the definition

so that people who are working on the front line in our welfare offices and with our municipalities can get additional help, so that discretionary funds, for example, can today be used for things

that will help mitigate the potential for people to be evicted because of high costs.

Mr. Prue: Madam Minister, we've heard today that Loblaws is going to get millions upon millions of extra dollars -- a company that doesn't

need it. But from your answer, it's quite clear that social assistance recipients are getting nothing from your fund. They do not qualify; they get nothing from the fund. They need the money so

that they can pay the hydro, pay the rent and feed their kids. When are you going to let them in on this gravy train you're giving to Loblaws? When are you going to provide real assistance for our

lowest-income families to pay for the hydro bills, instead of giving the money to private corporations that simply do not require it?

Hon. Ms. Pupatello: I appreciate the interest, because I believe this member does truly care about people who struggle. But can I just say

very clearly: He is dead wrong. Let me just say today that what we have done is to develop an emergency energy fund to help people with higher costs who are low-income. Not just those on social

assistance, but others as well.

Secondly, we announced a $10-million provincial rent bank, right across the province, so that people could access assistance before they end up on the

street.

Thirdly, we changed the definition of our discretionary fund to help people in advance of them ending up on the street. So don't come in the House and tell me

-- unless you've got the facts to back you, because we are telling you that we are preparing for people who need assistance.

Fourthly, for the first time in 12 years we have raised the ODSP rates and the OW rates by 3%.

HEALTH CARE

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Minister, as of today, in breaking news, Mike Harris and

Preston Manning issued a report from that right-wing conservative Fraser Institute, and it calls for the abolition of the Canada Health Act and allowing for privatization of health care. Minister,

a very simple question: Where do we stand?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): We came to learn at 2:55 today on Canada NewsWire that Preston Manning and

Mike Harris have come clean, that they have established what the Conservative agenda is. This government stands in favour of the Canada Health Act. We stand as a government that moved forward the

bill, the Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act, that affirms those principles. We're a government that seeks to build on the excellent work of Roy Romanow, as will be plenty evident when we

launch our family health teams within just a few days.

What we have coming from Ottawa today is more evidence -- while the Conservative agenda in Ottawa is no longer a hidden one, we ask a question to the Leader of

the Opposition: When will you come clean on your agenda to privatize health services, more like the 407 and for your $2.4-billion promised cut to health care?

Mr. Levac: Minister, I can only say to you, thank you very much, and thank you to Dalton and thank you for the Liberal government for

supporting health care in the province of Ontario. Thank you for moving our ship in the right direction in the developments that you've created, and the fact that we're going to have that great

health care.

I'm concerned that this report, combined with Mr. Tory's commitment to rip that $2.4 billion out of Ontario's health care system, would point that ship in the

back direction that we were coming from. Can you tell the Ontarians what the McGuinty government has done to protect the public health care system, reduce wait times and ensure that our citizens

get the right health care that they deserve?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Ours is a government that this year has invested nearly $3 billion in improvements to the Ontario health care system, in

contrast to the commitment of the leader opposite to reduce health care spending by $2.4 billion. We brought in a bill that strengthens the protections for medicare, that makes it less possible to

have queue-jumping and two-tier medicine -- things supported by the honourable member opposite.

The reality is that there are two contrasting positions in this Legislature: the position of our government as brought forward by the Premier, who spent so

much time in his leadership role on the Council of the Federation, building consensus in the land and seeking additional resources for wait times. We're delivering on those promises made by the

first ministers. This weekend we're working with health ministers from across the country, building on this great gift, the best expression of Canadian values -- medicare -- in contrast to Mr.

Tory's $2.4-billion cut.

FISHING LICENCES

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. As you're currently aware, Bill 155 is before the

House, and let me make it perfectly clear that anything that would help children receive their entitled funds is something that is needed, and we support that. Minister, in regard to this

legislation, certain individuals who are in contravention of the legislation will have their fishing licence suspended in the same fashion a driver's licence is. The difference here is that a

police officer, when he checks a driver's licence, does a check on his computer in the police cruiser to find out if the licence is suspended. What happens in the case of a conservation officer

who's on a lake checking a licence? How will they know, and how will the conservation officers enforce the legislation?

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources): How this is going to work is, there'll be communication between the Ministry of Community

and Social Services and the Ministry of Natural Resources so that we will be informed as to those people who are no longer in compliance. Therefore, that will go into our records so our

conservation officers will know that those people are no longer entitled to hold that licence.

Mr. Ouellette: How will a conservation officer in the field know whether that licence is under suspension? Once a suspension goes through,

there's no enforcement in there that says that the licence has to be resubmitted to the ministry. So a CEO will take a look at it and find the date is OK, and he'll have no way to call in to verify

whether it's going to be allowed or going to be under suspension.

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: Of course, as the member knows, I instituted the on-line issuing of licences. This is now all electronic data, through our

Peterborough head office. So we have an electronic record and trail of all these licences. Also, our conservation officers, as you know, are linked by satellite communications in the field. There's

two-way communication from our Sault Ste. Marie office. So all that information can be downloaded to the conservation officer in the field.

HYDRO RATES

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): To the Premier: Across Ontario, workers and their families are suffering because of your private,

for-profit hydro policy. You see, they're losing their jobs because industries that are major power consumers are shutting their doors, not just across northern Ontario, but in the south as

well.

Niagara Centre: Atlas Specialty Steels -- gone; St. Catharines: Ferranti-Packard -- gone; Erie-Lincoln: Fleet manufacturing -- gone; Niagara Falls: Carborundum

-- gone. These are good-paying, value-added manufacturing jobs that rely upon inexpensive hydroelectricity. They can't afford the McGuinty for-profit energy prices. What are you going to do about

it?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): To the Minister of Economic Development and Trade.

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I can tell the member that, in fact, investors are giving us a vote of

confidence, and I can tell you who's been adding investment to this province. Quite the contrary to what the member is saying, we have a long list. So please listen.

Ritz-Carlton today announced that it's building a $300-million complex in Toronto, creating 1,500 new construction jobs and 500 permanent jobs. Great Wolf

Lodge is investing $200 million to build a resort in Niagara Falls, adding hundreds of new jobs. Bell Security Solutions is adding 200 jobs, divided between Ottawa and Toronto. NOVA Chemicals is

investing $260 million to modernize its operations in Corunna. Harmony Logistics is investing $96 million in a Pickering facility, increasing employment by 130 jobs. The Sutherland Group is hiring

250 new staff in Sault Ste. Marie.

The economy is proving to be resilient. There are challenges, no doubt, but new investments are being made all the time. Ontario is a positive place to

invest.

Mr. Kormos: Twenty service sector jobs don't make up for one value-added manufacturing job, those wealth-creation jobs that are part of our

traditional industrial base. I repeat again, in Niagara alone, Fleet manufacturing of Erie-Lincoln -- gone; Ferranti-Packard, St. Catharines -- gone; Carborundum, Niagara Falls -- gone; Atlas

Specialty Steels, the only stainless steel manufacturer of its quality in Canada -- gone -- because of your electricity policy, because of your unaffordable electricity prices.

Ontario's major power consumers can't afford your electricity policy. So I'm going to ask you once again, what are you going to do about the hit the Ontario

industry is taking because of your government's hydro policies? Time's running out.

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: I can tell you that Suzuki, bringing the CAMI plant up to full production, is here to stay, creating hundreds of new jobs

and, as a result, that facility is going to be fully operational and working at full capacity. Stackpole: 350 jobs are being created in Ancaster, so they're coming to Ontario. Polymer, based in

Cambridge, is working with the University of Waterloo on new products in the auto sector; Meikle Automation of Kitchener is increasing its workforce.

There are countless, numerous examples of investments being made in Ontario and, dare I say it, new investment in the auto sector: $1 billion from Ford last

fall, the $2.5-billion investment made by GM. These are all votes of confidence in the province of Ontario and our economy, and many new jobs are to come. That's right. There were 500 new jobs

announced at the GM plants, and many new jobs are being created all the time.

CONSUMER PROTECTION

Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): My question is for the Minister of Consumer and Business Services. Protecting consumers and my

constituents from fraud is a priority for me and for our government. Many of us have had first-hand experience with negative-option billing -- I know the Leader of the Opposition is a big fan of

negative-option billing -- fly-by-night salespeople and fine print on contracts that hides the true cost of a transaction. I am told the Consumer Protection Act will come into force this July and

will finally put an end to these practices. Minister, how is our government working with the business community to ensure that the laws outlined in the Consumer Protection Act are met?

Hon. Jim Watson (Minister of Consumer and Business Services): The

preamble from the honourable member for Mississauga East about

negative-option billing -- given the pummelling the leader of the Conservative Party received today, it's not even sporting to talk about negative-option billing, so I'll pass on that comment. But

I am very proud of the Consumer Protection Act and the legislation that will come into effect, I'm pleased to announce, on July 30 of this year.

What we have been doing since the legislation received royal assent is notifying stakeholders. We've had consultations with hundreds of business organizations

and consumer groups across Ontario. Tomorrow, I'm very proud that I will be participating, along with officials from our ministry, in a live Webcast at 10 o'clock in the morning that will allow

business and community groups and residents of Ontario to fully understand the implications of the new consumer protection laws in Ontario. It's tomorrow at 10 a.m. at our Web site,

cbs.gov.on.ca.

Mr. Fonseca: Thank you, Minister, for that wonderful information. It's great to hear that all the measures are being taken to ensure consumers

are fully protected. I recall when Bill 70 was being passed, way back in November, some members of the opposition over there even questioned the need for this legislation. I'll let you know that

many of the constituents in my area, in particular the seniors, have said that they've been solicited by these fly-by-night companies, and something had to be done. I'm so happy to hear you're

pushing for this type of protection. Minister, when will this much-needed legislation come into force, and how will my constituents and consumers across this great province of Ontario be informed

of their new rights?

Hon. Mr. Watson: As I indicated, July 30 is the proclamation date of the Consumer Protection Act. I want to outline for the member from

Mississauga East, who has had a particular interest in consumer protection issues, that the act, once proclaimed, will lengthen and create new cooling-off periods, allow for heavier penalties for

dishonest activity, make full-cost disclosure of leases mandatory, especially important for the payday lending industry, which I know my colleague from Toronto is interested in, and outlaw

negative-option billing and the unilateral amendment of consumer contracts by business. This is a piece of legislation I'm looking forward to proclaiming. It's part of the McGuinty government's

program to ensure that consumers in Ontario have the best and strongest consumer protection legislation in the entire country.

PETITIONS

ANTI-SMOKING LEGISLATION

Mr. Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I have a petition from Cathy Gibson and the Owen Sound Legion. I have quite a few petitions

here.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the current government has proposed province-wide legislation that would ban smoking in public places; and

"Whereas the proposed legislation will also prohibit smoking in private, non-profit clubs such as Legion halls, navy clubs and related facilities as well;

and

"Whereas these organizations have elected representatives that determine the rules and regulations that affect the membership of the individual club and

facility; and

"Whereas by imposing smoke-free legislation on these clubs disregards the rights of these citizens and the original intentions of these clubs, especially with

respect to our veterans;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Parliament of Ontario exempt Legion halls, navy clubs and other non-profit, private or veterans' clubs from government smoke-free legislation."

I've also signed this petition.

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

Mr. Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): I've got a petition here signed by a number of people who have gone to Scarborough Hospital for

services. It reads as follows:

"As a person who has used or has had a relative or a friend use the outpatient physiotherapy and occupational therapy department at the Scarborough Hospital

general campus, we're very concerned that the hospital is considering closing the physiotherapy and occupational therapy outpatient department. There's a shortage of this calibre of services in our

community. We feel that the therapy department must be kept open for the following reasons:

"

(1) It has served the rehabilitation needs of patients in the Scarborough community for over 40 years, and it continues to provide therapy services in acute

areas such as fractures, trauma, joint surgeries, plastic surgeries and sports injuries;

"

(3) It provides immediate rehabilitation care, which allows for decreased hospital stays; and

"

(4) It provides expertise and treatment for patients from infancy to geriatrics."

I'm pleased to read this petition, and I'll certainly add my name to it.

I'm also pleased to say -- which will be of interest to you, Mr. Speaker -- that I've just come from Scarborough Hospital, where we made a $30-million

announcement for their emergency and acute care centre.

LANDFILL

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): This is entitled "Halt Edwards Landfill."

"In regards to the proposal to amend the fill rate for the Edwards landfill site on lot 24, Brooks Road, in Cayuga, Ontario, to 500 tonnes a day...,

"Whereas there has been improper notification and input from adjacent landowners and concerned citizens; and

"Whereas there exists a high probability of contamination of Pike Creek and Oshwego Creek, which feed eventually into Lakes Erie and Ontario; and

"Whereas there will be considerable negative impact on breeding birds and rare wildlife that live in the surrounding north Cayuga slough forest; and

"Whereas the county of Haldimand sees no benefit to this proposal;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"Halt the plans to develop the Edwards landfill site for landfill purposes."

I sign my petition.

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I've got a petition here signed by some members of the Penfold family on Harvey Crescent in Erin Mills. It

reads as follows:

"Whereas there are no established Ontario-wide standards to deal with anaphylaxis in Ontario schools; and

"Whereas there is no specific comment regarding anaphylaxis in the Ontario Education Act; and

"Whereas anaphylaxis is a serious concern that can result in life-or-death situations; and

"Whereas all students in Ontario have the right to be safe and feel safe in their school community; and

"Whereas all parents of anaphylactic students need to know that safety standards exist in all Ontario schools, be it therefore resolved that

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario support the swift passage of Bill 3,

An Act to protect anaphylactic students, that requires that every school principal in

Ontario establish a school anaphylactic plan."

I'm in support of this petition. I'll sign my name to it and ask Jean to carry it for me.

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): Thank you very much for the opportunity to present this petition on behalf of my constituents in the riding of

Durham.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas many volunteer fire departments in Ontario are strengthened by the service of double-hatter firefighters who work as professional, full-time

firefighters and also serve as volunteer firefighters on their free time and in their home communities; and

"Whereas the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association has declared their intent to `phase out' these double-hatter firefighters; and

"Whereas double-hatter firefighters are being threatened by the union leadership and forced to resign as volunteer firefighters or face losing their full-time

jobs, and this is weakening volunteer fire departments in Ontario" -- and indeed in my riding of Durham -- "and

"Whereas Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott" -- who is here today -- "has introduced Bill 52, the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act, that would

uphold the right to volunteer and solve this problem concerning public safety in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial government express public support for MPP Ted Arnott's Bill 52 and willingness to pass it into law or introduce similar legislation that

protects the right of firefighters to volunteer in their home communities on their own free time."

I'm pleased to sign and endorse and support this petition and indeed Bill 52, which is important in my riding of Durham.

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to introduce the petition on behalf of NASK in my riding.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas there are no established province-wide standards to deal with anaphylactic shock in Ontario schools; and

"Whereas there is no specific comment regarding anaphylactic shock in the Education Act; and

"Whereas anaphylactic shock is a serious concern that can result in life-or-death situations; and

"Whereas all students in Ontario have the right to be safe and feel safe in their school community; and

"Whereas all parents of anaphylactic students need to know that safety standards exist in all Ontario schools;

Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, demand that the McGuinty government support the passing of Bill 3,

An Act to protect anaphylactic students,

which requires that every school principal in Ontario establish a school anaphylactic program."

I'm pleased to sign my name to support this petition.

OPTOMETRISTS

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas the last funding agreement between the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care and the Ontario Association of Optometrists expired March 31, 2000;

and

"Whereas the optometric fees for OHIP-insured services remain unchanged since 1989; and

"Whereas the lack of any fee increase for 15 years has created a crisis situation for optometrists; and

"Whereas fees for OHIP services do not provide for fair or reasonable compensation for the professional services of optometrists, in that they no longer cover

the costs of providing eye examinations; and

"Whereas it is in the best interests of patients and the government to have a new funding agreement for insured services that will ensure that the most

vulnerable members of society are able to receive the eye care they need;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care resume negotiations immediately with the OAO and appoint a mediator to help with the negotiation process in

order to ensure that optometrists can continue to provide quality eye care services to patients in Ontario."

It's signed by a significant number of our constituents in Waterloo-Wellington, and I've affixed my signature as well.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the federal Income Tax Act at present has a minimum amount of medical expenses for which a taxpayer is entitled to claim a non-refundable income tax

credit;

"Whereas the health and medical expenses of every citizen in the province of Ontario, great or small, affect their overall net income;

"Whereas the Ontario Liberal government moved in their 2004 budget on May 18, 2004, to delist publicly funded medical services such as chiropractic services,

optometry examinations and physiotherapy services;

"Therefore, we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Income Tax Act remove the present minimum amount of medical expenses for which an Ontario taxpayer is entitled to claim a non-refundable income tax

credit."

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I'm pleased to bring forward petitions on health care signed by folks here in Beamsville, Jordan and St. Anns,

in the riding of Erie-Lincoln, that read as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Dalton McGuinty Liberals promised a health care system that gives us all the care we need when we need it; and

"Whereas chiropractors, optometrists and physiotherapists provide the necessary health care to the people of Ontario to maintain healthy and active

lifestyles;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The Dalton McGuinty Liberals should keep their promise to invest in health care and restore funding to cover optometry, physiotherapy and chiropractic care

under OHIP."

In support, my signature.

ONTARIO FARMERS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): It's my pleasure to present a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario on behalf of my constituents in

Durham.

"Whereas thousands of Ontario farmers and rural Ontarians have been forced to take their concerns directly to Queen's Park due to a lack of response from the

Dalton McGuinty government; and

"Whereas the Rural Revolution believes that rural Ontario is in crisis due to lost property rights and crushing regulatory burden" -- and they have been

demonstrating their resolve and determination at Queen's Park during March;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, ask the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to consider the issue of municipal jurisdiction brought forward by the Rural

Revolution's resolutions to respect property rights and prosperity as follows:

"Resolution number 5: Municipal governments shall be constituted to take control and jurisdiction over matters that pertain to their constituents.

"Resolution number 9: All municipalities forced or coerced with amalgamations shall hold a binding referendum on de-amalgamation at the next general

election."

There are a number of other concerns, and I will sign this in support of the work done by rural Ontario and my constituents.

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): I have another petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas,

"Elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care they

need;

"Those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already overburdened family

physician offices and emergency departments;

"Elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200 million in other

health care costs; and

"There was no consultation with the public on the decision to delist chiropractic services;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP

coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system, government and the province."

It's signed by a number of my constituents, and I have affixed my signature as well.

STUDENT SAFETY

Mr. Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): I have a petition to the Legislature of Ontario.

"Whereas the Ministry of Education has failed to ensure that students are protected from individuals whose past behaviours have directly harmed children;

and

"Whereas the Ministry of Education has chosen to ignore the children's aid society's recommendation that certain individuals not work with children; and

"Whereas the introduction of a `volunteer' into the school system must not be solely at the discretion of the principal; and

"Whereas the Liberal government promised to ensure that school boards provide strong local accountability and decision-making;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly to amend the Education Act to place restrictions on the eligibility of persons who act as volunteers in

schools, and to include as a formal requirement that volunteers be subject to the approval of the school board and parent council."

I have affixed my name.

PIT BULLS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I'd like to present yet a third petition on behalf of the riding of Durham.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas aggressive dogs are found among any breed or crossbreed; and

"Breed-specific legislation and breed bans are not effective solutions to the problem of dog attacks; and

"The problem of dog attacks is best dealt with through a comprehensive program of education, training, and legislation encouraging responsible ownership of all

breeds;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to refrain from enacting" -- it's unfortunate; this is already done -- "provincial animal

control legislation that is breed specific, and instead implement a comprehensive bite prevention strategy that encourages responsible ownership of all breeds."

I'm sad to tell the people of Ontario that this petition is too late, but the sentiment is still true.

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I'm pleased to present a petition signed by Kevin McNeil from Beamsville and Paul and Willie Matthews of South

Grimsby Road 18 that reads as follows:

"To: Legislative Assembly of Ontario

"Re: Support for chiropractic services" under OHIP:

"Whereas,

"Elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care they

need;

"Those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already overburdened family

physician offices and emergency departments;

"Elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200 million in other

health care costs; and

"There was no consultation with the public on the decision...;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP

coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system...."

And in support, my signature.

OPPOSITION DAY

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): I move that the Legislative Assembly call upon the government,

To ensure Ontario's hospitals are given adequate, stable, multi-year funding to meet the needs of patients as promised by the Liberal Party of Ontario in the

2003 election and again promised in the McGuinty government's May 2004 budget, and

That hospitals are provided with funding allocations within the first month of the fiscal year so they can properly plan to meet the government's deadline for

balanced budgets by March 31, 2006, and

That no nurses will be fired as a result of budgetary constraints for the remaining term of office of the McGuinty Liberal government, and

That waiting lists for medical procedures in hospitals under any circumstance will not increase as a result of the Ministry of Health's approved balanced

budget plans for hospitals.

I think it's agreed upon by people on all sides of the House that we owe it to the people of Ontario to provide the best health care system possible. But a

good health care system has to be a stable health care system. Many of us would not find it acceptable to go and have surgery and have the surgeon just kind of open you up with the scalpel and then

sort of go inside and make it up as he or she goes along. It's just what appears to be happening in the health care system right now. The surgery that's being done is, make the incision and then

make it up as you go along. That's the way they're dealing with the system.

There is no plan. This is not an opinion as much as it's an observation, and it's not an observation being made by me or by members on this side of the House

alone; it's one, more importantly perhaps, that is being made by doctors, nurses, hospital workers, patients, administrators and those who write about health care issues.

Let's just talk about a couple of examples, if we can. Last year, the Liberal government refused to tell the hospitals of Ontario how much money they would be

getting until 11 months had gone by in the fiscal year. I wonder whether anybody in this assembly or anybody watching at home or anybody operating a business or any family in Ontario could manage

their own lives or manage their own financial plans if they weren't told what their income would be until the end of the year. That is exactly how this McGuinty Liberal government is managing

hospitals and, by extension, the thousands of lives that are dependent upon our hospitals across the province of Ontario.

On top of all of that, of course, we ended the fiscal year just a few days ago with the hospitals having accumulated $330 million in deficits, for which the

Liberal government has no answer whatsoever as to whether they're going to do anything or something, or anything in between. There's just no answer. This, of course, totally ignores the fact that

this is borrowed money. This is borrowed money that is ultimately going to have to be repaid by those hospitals. It's borrowed money that has used up their lines of credit, and it is borrowed money

that they simply have to pay back. They're going to rely, to some extent at least, on having some word from this government as to how they're going to go about doing that.

When a hospital administrator at Sick Kids Hospital complained about this way of going about the business of running our hospitals, trying to do it in the

right way, the responsible way, the sensible way, the government created a climate of fear. That person, as I recall, lost their job, and it led to the Ottawa Sun writing the following: "If the top

executives at Sick Kids can be silenced, then no hospital is immune -- not CHEO, not the Ottawa Hospital, not the Monfort, not the Queensway Carleton -- to what many are now describing as political

thuggery." That's what the Ottawa Sun said. You know, they talked about the Ottawa hospitals; they might just as well have been talking about every hospital in this province, because as I've gone

about visiting many of them, there is no question that there is an environment of intimidation about speaking up and being heard on these kinds of things.

There is also a very strong feeling on the part of all of them that they just don't have the answers they need. They don't know what funding they're getting

for this year. In some cases, they still don't know what funding they're getting for last year. They don't know what is being done about their accumulated deficits. It just goes on and on. Nobody

could describe this manner of operating the health care system as being at all sensible or businesslike.

Here we are now 13 days into the new fiscal year, two weeks into the new fiscal year, and no word from this government whatsoever on how much money these

hospitals will have to work with through the course of this year. What kind of planning does that promote? What kind of advanced planning and careful work does that promote in terms of budgeting

and being able to make some of the tough decisions the Premier spoke so proudly about this afternoon? He should have made a lot more tough decisions, I would suggest, before the election last time,

instead of pretending to make them now.

So the result we have is $330 million in accumulated deficits, 757 nurses and counting who have lost their jobs and a continuing kind of uncertainty that just

doesn't allow for any of the kinds of improvements that the government and others talk about so frequently.

I was having a look at the health care platform of the Liberal Party of Ontario. Talk about something that's going to cause illness in the province, that's one

to really make you wonder. On page 2, they said the Conservative government of the day "believes in better access for those who can afford to pay," while saying that the Liberals "have a plan for

better health care -- for everyone." Except when they got into office, as with so many other areas -- we've seen it in so many other places -- they did exactly the opposite. Eye examinations,

physiotherapists, chiropractic examinations: Those services are now for those who can afford to pay.

On the subject of being able to afford to pay, we have the Liberal government of Dalton McGuinty charging the average Ontario family $1,000 more for health

care, in total, through the so-called health tax and the various other measures they've introduced. Some of the people of Ontario might have said -- I don't think very many -- after they were

betrayed in this manner in terms of what they were told during the election, "Well, if we got a lot better care, a lot more care, a lot faster care," maybe there would have been a few who would

have said, "I'll get over the betrayal." But in fact what are they getting? They're paying more, which they were told they would not have to do, and they're getting less: no eye exams, no

chiropractors, no physiotherapists, waiting lists that are at best the same and probably longer in many cases, and the list goes on and on.

On the same page -- I'm not even off page 2 -- of the Liberal health platform, they said they would "protect and improve universal public medicare." Well, we

know, like so many other things they said, and in particular so many things this Premier said during the course of the election campaign, it didn't happen. We know it didn't happen because they

delisted chiropractic services, physiotherapists and eye examinations. That's number one.

Number two, they promised to "shorten waiting times." When we ask a straightforward question about how long the waiting lists were when they started to try and

shorten them, which they haven't done, they can't even tell us where the waiting lists started. They can't even tell us that. It is absolutely impossible to manage when you don't have the

information.

I heard the Premier say today that it was one of the great days in Ontario health care history when they commenced a study to design a Web si