Alberta Hansard — 3 May 1978, Afternoon sitting (14:30) (Legislature 18, Session 4)

19780503

Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 995 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Title: Wednesday, May 3, 1978 2:30 p.m. [The House met at 2:30 p.m.] PRAYERS [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS MR. HYNDMAN: Mr. Speaker, it's my pleasure today to introduce to you, seated in your gallery, two distin guished visitors from an important country in central Europe. They are His Excellency Constantin Telalov, the Ambassador of Bulgaria to Canada, accompanied by the Consul and Trade Commissioner for that coun try, Mr. Christo Gumnerov.

They are here for the purpose of trying to encourage trade and commerce between Canada and Alberta and Bulgaria. They've been meeting with government officials in Agricul ture and Business Development over the course of the day, and with His Worship the Mayor. I would ask that they both stand and be recognized by the Assembly at this time. MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, I have the honor to introduce to you and the members of the Legislative Assembly this afternoon Her Honour Judge Claire Kirkland-Casgrain.

Our distinguished guest devoted 12 years of her life to Quebec provincial politics and held various cabinet posts during that time. Among them, she was Minister of State, Minister of Trans portation and Communication, Minister of Tourism, Fish and Game, and Minister of Cultural Affairs. On her retirement from active participation in provincial politics, she was appointed a judge of the provincial court of Quebec, the first woman to be so honored in la belle province. Mr.

Speaker, until her retirement in 1973 Judge Claire Kirkland-Casgrain was the first and only woman elected to serve in the Quebec National Assembly. She is visiting Alberta to speak tomorrow evening, May 4, on the topic "Tourism in Quebec" at the Edmonton Public Library theatre. Our distinguished guest is seated in your gallery, Mr. Speaker. I see she has now risen. We wish her well and wish her the best of western welcomes. I'd ask you to welcome her in true western style. head: INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 12 The Motor Vehicle Administration Amendment Act, 1978 MR. FARRAN: Mr.

Speaker, I request leave to intro duce a bill, being The Motor Vehicle Administration Amendment Act, 1978. The purpose of this bill is to clarify the definition of an Albertan so far as motor vehicle licensing is concerned. [Leave granted; Bill 12 read a first time] Bill 213 The Environmental Bill of Rights MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce a bill, Bill 213, The Environmental Bill of Rights. It's similar to the bill I introduced last year at this session.

Basically it makes it possible for individual Albertans to lay class actions on matters of environmental concern in this province. [Leave granted; Bill 213 read a first time] head: TABLING RETURNS AND REPORTS MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to table the 1977 annual report of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, K Division. head: INTRODUCTION OF SPECIAL GUESTS MR. SCHMID: Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce to you, and through you to the members of this Assembly, 40 grade 9 students from St. James school. They are accompanied by their teacher Mr.

Sniher, who in past years has brought his students to this Assembly quite consistently. I would like to express to him in this way my appreciation for making our students, in that school specifically, aware of our legislative traditions. I would ask the students and Mr. Sniher to rise and receive the welcome of the Assembly. MR. PURDY: Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure this after noon to introduce to you and to members of this Assembly 56 grade 8 students from the Winterburn school situated in the eastern part of the Stony Plain constituency. They are accompanied by their teach ers Mr. Conroy and Mr. Miller.

I would ask the teachers and students to rise, please, and receive the welcome of this Assembly. DR. PAPROSKI: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to introduce to you, and through you to the members of the Assem bly, some 36 students from NAIT, the Northern Alber ta Institute of Technology, located in the heart of Edmonton Kingsway. They're in the public gallery, accompanied by their teacher Mr. Dennis McFarlane. I'd like to compliment them for taking an interest in the legislative process. I'd ask them to rise and be recognized by the House. MR. ADAIR: Mr.

Speaker, it's my pleasure today to introduce to you, and through you to the members of this Assembly, the president of the Commonwealth Games Foundation and a number of the vice- presidents, along with the executive assistant to Dr. Van Vliet. In the members gallery are Dr. Maury Van Vliet, the president, along with vice-presidents Mr. Justice Tevie Miller, Mr. Bob Losie, Mr. Tony Thibau- deau, Mr. Bill Bagshaw, and Mr. Bruce Cleveley, the executive assistant to Dr. Van Vliet. It should be noted today, Mr.

Speaker, that the highest number of Commonwealth countries ever to enter the Commonwealth Games will be coming to

996 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 Edmonton in August. Today a total of 43 have indi cated they will be coming. Mr. Speaker, I would ask that the members of the Commonwealth Games Foundation, who are in the members gallery, stand and receive the recognition of the Assembly. MR. BOGLE: It's a pleasure, Mr. Speaker, to introduce to you and to members of the Assembly a delegation from the Taber hospital and nursing home board. The delegation is in Edmonton today to meet with the Minister and the Deputy Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care.

The delegation consists of Pat Powers, the deputy chairperson; board members Tom Addy, Clarence Wentz, and Bob Paterson; and board admin istrator George Karaki. I would ask them to rise and receive the welcome of the Assembly. head: MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Department of Recreation, Parks and Wildlife MR. ADAIR: Mr. Speaker, in 1973 the government of Alberta provided substantial financial assistance to the Commonwealth Games being held in the prov ince's capital city in August of this year.

The provi sion of public funds was made with full appreciation of the positive impact the Commonwealth Games would have on Canada, and on Albertans in particu lar. Albertans are broadening their international per spective in many ways, and one of the most signifi cant will be through active participation in a major sporting and cultural event such as the Common wealth Games. Today, Mr. Speaker, five years later, the Common wealth Games Foundation has shown excellent man agement in their co-ordination of the construction of capital facilities.

Their adherence to budgets and deadlines and their attention to detail have been well demonstrated. The dedication of hundreds of volun teers and the committee itself has helped make this a reality. However, the Commonwealth Games Foun dation finds that its original operating budget must be revised in view of items which were not foreseen when original calculations were made years ago.

The Commonwealth Games Foundation has made a presentation to the government of Alberta for addi tional funds, and it is my pleasure to announce that we have approved an additional $3 million to assist the Foundation in meeting its operating commit ments. In approving these additional funds, Alberta recognizes the responsibility of other participating governments to enter fully into the same spirit of co-operation to ensure the success of the Common wealth Games.

The government of Alberta recognizes the fact that the Commonwealth Games represent an opportunity to provide Albertans with an event of international focus; one, Mr. Speaker, in which they may take great pride. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, in commenting on the ministerial announcement, might I say that we in the official opposition agree with the government's deci sion on this particular occasion for additional operat ing funds for the Commonwealth Games.

I think it's a tribute to those people who have given most generously of their time that in fact, from a capital point of view, the Edmonton Commonwealth Games will be able to be looked at as an example of individu als, a city — and a province, as far as that goes — that together we're able to get in the capital projects close to projected costs. I recognize the need for additional funding on this occasion as far as operating budget is concerned. We welcome the announcement the government has made for the Commonwealth Games on this occasion. Department of Social Services and Community Health MISS HUNLEY: Mr.

Speaker, my colleague the Hon. Roy Farran and I are pleased to announce officially the recent introduction of the organ donor card atta chment to the new Alberta driver's licence. This atta chment will allow for the easy and early identification of potential donors. Many parts of the human body can now be used to restore another person to a healthy, productive life. We are most aware of kidney and corneal transplants. Kidney transplants enable a person suffering from kidney disease to resume a normal lifestyle, free from having to be hooked up to a dialysis machine two or three times a week.

In some cases, a kidney trans plant is necessary to save a person's life. Corneal transplants restore vision to a person once unable to see and therefore function in ways that you and I take for granted, such as driving cars, watching hockey games, et cetera. In addition to these organs, other parts of the body can be used. A hormone extracted from the pituitary gland is used to stimulate growth in children who would otherwise find their growth stunted. Kneecaps and other bones can be used to replace diseased or injured tissue.

Bone marrow can be transplanted to improve the functioning, and in some cases the lives, of sufferers of aplastic anemia, leukemia, and dis eases of the body's immunity system. With most organs, it is necessary to remove the tissue as quickly as possible after death. The organ donor card will ensure that potential donors are quickly and easily identified. For those who do not drive, organ donor cards will be made readily available through such community agencies as health units, liquor stores, and preventive social services offices. We also hope to place sup plies of the cards in doctors' waiting rooms.

People giving their consent to remove organs or other tissues after death do so under our Human Tissue Gift Act. Any person who has attained the age of majority may give his consent for donation in writ ing, or may do so orally, with two witnesses present, during his last illness. Next of kin may also donate the tissue of their relation. To make the program effective, we call on Alber tans to consider donating their bodies, or parts of them, to alleviate suffering and possibly prevent death.

We also need the co-operation of police and hospital employees, so that potential donors are iden tified in a timely manner. This program will not only benefit Albertans but will also help other Canadians, and possibly even people from other countries, since countries through

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 997 out the world have an agreement to attempt to meet shortages in any jurisdiction. I urge my colleagues in the Legislative Assembly and Albertans everywhere to sign up as organ donors. In this way, we can give the lie to Shakes peare's lines: The evil that men do lives after them, The good is oft interred with their bones. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. head: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Solar and Wind Energy Research MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to direct the first question to the Minister of Business Development and Tourism, with a follow-up question to the Minis ter of Housing and Public Works. This being Interna tional Sun Day, it seemed reasonable that we'd ask the minister initially to outline what the Alberta Research Council is doing in the area of solar research. MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, I can't give in detail what is being undertaken, but as a result of an earlier question I have asked for an update on what pro cesses are being undertaken.

I do know that for some time the technical people of the council have devel oped a library on what has been done in other parts of the world with regard to solar energy. That library is fairly complete now. Also money has been set aside through Energy and Natural Resources and through the heritage savings trust fund to do further research on solar energy. MR. HYNDMAN: In the absence of the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, I happen to have a little information on the subject of International Sun Day, some of which may assist the hon. gentleman.

There certainly is widespread and growing interest in the use of solar power as a renewable energy source. That interest has spread to Alberta, where the north ern Alberta

chapter of the Solar Energy Society of Canada is sponsoring a series of educational events this week in both Edmonton and Calgary to demon strate the potential use of solar energy. The Department of Energy and Natural Resources is sponsoring research on solar and wind energy resources in Alberta, through the energy resources research fund. To date these activities are being car ried out for the department by the Alberta Research Council. They involve essentially two areas of initia tive.

Firstly, the installation of sophisticated solar and wind energy monitoring equipment at several loca tions to provide an assessment of the magnitude of these energy sources; that is, sun and wind in dif ferent areas of Alberta. Secondly, work is being done to establish a proper library and technical information service to put together all the information on the potential applications of both those sources. To conclude, Mr.

Speaker, later this year we expect that work will begin on selected pilot projects designed to demonstrate the best uses of solar and wind energy under a variety of situations found in this province. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to either of the two gentlemen. What resources, in ballpark terms, are available from the Alberta Research Council for work in this area? I ask the question in light of the fact that in neither of the Research Council's reports from last year or this year is there any reference to specific allocation of funds in those areas. MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, as the hon.

Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs indicated, the funds are allocated through the energy committee — I forget the name of it. I can't give you that figure offhand, but I will provide it for the hon. member. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, a further supplementary question to the same minister. When one looks at the '76-77 annual report of the Alberta Research Council, it talks of providing assistance in the devel opment and application of solar wind technology to meet Alberta's requirements.

What form is that assi stance taking, and is the Research Council now ac cepting applications for financial grants from the council? MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, no, the council is not accepting applications for grants. But as I said, a library has been compiled with regard to research undertaken relative to solar energy. In the compila tion of that library, a great deal was gathered with regard to solar energy used for heating homes. There has been a number of applications for assistance in developing solar energy heated homes, and that assi stance has been provided by the Research Council staff. MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, one further question to the minister. Other than the library you've talked about, can the minister outline to the Assembly any other assistance which comes from the Alberta Research Council in the area of solar energy? MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, I thought I had. I indi cated that the library provides a great deal of informa tion relative to the development of homes heated with solar energy. That information is available for mem bers of the private sector or private individuals to utilize, and to advise members of the the private industry on.

Further, I should say I'm not in a position to provide in dollars the actual figure of what is now being allocated for solar and wind energy, but I can provide that figure in dollars later on. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the Minister of Housing and Public Works. Really the only work the minister can outline to us in the Research Council is that a library has been establish ed. My question to the . . . MR. HYNDMAN: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I outlined that there was much more being done than that. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Housing and Public Works.

I can appreci ate the touchiness of the Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs. Has the minister's de

998 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 partment done an assessment of the feasibility of using solar power in government buildings as an energy-saving device? MR. CHAMBERS: Mr. Speaker, I don't have that information at hand. However, I would be happy to check on it and report to the hon. member. MR. HYNDMAN: Supplementary information, Mr. Speaker. I think it should be mentioned again that the Research Council is working on the installation of sophisticated solar and wind energy monitoring equipment.

Perhaps in using his brain the hon. oppo sition leader wasn't able to hear what I said the first time, and he could make use of the organ transplant announcement made earlier. [interjections] MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, we fully appreciate the touchiness of the Minister of Federal and Intergov ernmental Affairs. After all, the chairman of the Research Council once again doesn't know what's going on over there. MR. GOGO: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs.

In view of the fact that it's termed International Sun Day, has the minister been asked by the federal authorities to participate in any manner in a promo tion of International Sun Day here in Alberta? MR. HYNDMAN: No, Mr. Speaker, we haven't been asked by the federal government, because the juris diction would be a shared one, in respect of the sun. [laughter] MR. TAYLOR: A supplementary to either minister.

Since I believe the Canadian government has issued something like $4 million for research into solar energy and solar use, is careful attention being given to not duplicating what the Canadian government is doing? MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, I can answer that ques tion in part. There are some major research organiza tions in Canada. One of the major ones, I would say second to none, is the Alberta Research Council. There is a great deal of flow of information back and forth between the various research councils, in a provincial sense as well as federal, and a great deal of co-operation between them.

I believe we can guarantee that there will not be duplication in that scientific community, but a great deal of working together. MR. TAYLOR: One further supplementary. Would the hon. minister follow up the question I asked about a year ago regarding research carried out by the Uni versity of Calgary in this province in connection with solar energy? MR. DOWLING: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will do that. MR. LYSONS: A supplementary question to the Min ister of Business Development and Tourism.

I wond er if he could give us an answer as to whether the Research Council has attempted to refine the old clothes line, where we used to use solar and wind energy for years? I don't see too many people using it anymore. MR. DOWLING: Yes, Mr. Speaker, they have. We have a number of sophisticated things like automatic dryers and automatic washers and things like that over there. Hospital Budgets MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct the second question to our friend the Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care.

Could the minister indicate to the Assembly the number of hospitals that have filed an appeal with his department after first receiving their budget? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I think I have that figure as of about three days ago. I don't have it as of today, but three days ago I think 11 hospitals had filed their notice of appeal. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, is the minister in a position to indicate to the Assembly what the accumulated deficits of hospitals in Alberta were last year? Once again, Mr. Minister, a ballpark figure. MR. MINIELY: Mr.

Speaker, that's a matter of detail which I think would far more appropriately suit the Order Paper. If the hon. leader wishes to put it on the Order Paper, then certainly once hospitals have filed their audited statements — and many hospitals have not filed their final audited statements for 1977 — I would be in position to answer that question. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, to the minister. Has the minister been advised by various hospital boards across the province that a number of them are facing deficits as a result of last year's information?

Could the minister have that information available for esti mates Monday night? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I think I'd have to check with the department which hospitals have sent in final audited statements. I would emphasize the word "audited" because the mere notification by a hospital that they have had an operating deficit for 1977 doesn't meet two criteria: one, we require that it's an audited financial statement so that the deficit is audited, and the other of course is that it must be an approved deficit for approved programs before it's acknowledged as a true operating deficit. MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, to put the question to the minister this way. Could the minister compile the information he's received from hospitals this year which have advised the minister's department that they had a deficit from last year? That will be simply, Mr. Minister, taking the figures from those hospitals which they've given to your department. Can you have them available for the House Monday night? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. Leader of the Opposition wishes to send me a memorandum — I think on Friday, while I was away, the hon.

Member for Little Bow sent a memorandum through the Pre mier to my office for information the opposition would like for examination of Hospitals and Medical Care

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 999 estimates next Monday and Tuesday. If the hon. leader would like further information of a detailed nature, I would certainly appreciate that he provide that at the earliest opportunity, because we're going to examine the estimates on Monday and Tuesday of next week. MR. CLARK: And Wednesday and Thursday, perhaps. Mr. Speaker, a further supplementary question to the minister. Can the minister give us some indica tion of how many hospital beds were closed down last year across the province by hospital boards?

And if he can't have the information now — I can hear the Premier moaning — then can he have it for Monday night? MR. LOUGHEED: Order please. MR. SPEAKER: The Order Paper is eminently suited for this kind of information, even if it's required for a discussion of the estimates. MR. CLARK: Well, Mr. Speaker, to the minister. Mr. Minister, is it possible, then, that you could tell us . . . MR. SPEAKER: Would the hon. leader please revert to the parliamentary form. MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, then is it possible that the minister could have for us, when his estimates come down, the number of hospital bed units and operating rooms that had to be closed down during the opera tion of the hospitals last year? Because we've got to reflect on that for the budgets for this year. MR. SPEAKER: I question the wisdom of using the question period to get this kind of information, which, if it can't be obtained by a simple memorandum to the minister, could certainly be dealt with on the Order Paper, as a motion for a return or as a question. Hospital Visitors Committee Report MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, then perhaps the minister could answer this question. When might we expect the annual report of the Alberta Hospital Visitors Committee, which I believe was supposed to be tabled 15 days after the session started? MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I think that report is now in the process of final review, and we should be tabling it shortly. The hon. leader is accurate that we did, through oversight, miss the date for filing that particular report. But the report will be made availa ble to the Legislature very shortly. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, to the minister.

Can the minister at least have a few copies available by Monday night when we do the estimates? MR. MINIELY: I think that I indicated earlier in answer to detailed questions from the Leader of the Opposi tion, and you, Mr. Speaker, have indicated that mat ters of the nature of detail that the Leader of the Opposition is asking — we're prepared to make avail able whatever information we possibly can during the course of examination of the estimates, or in fact in advance of the examination of the estimates.

I would point out to the hon. leader that some of his ques tions have already been answered in Hansard, and if he looks back in Hansard he will find the answers. MR. CLARK: Mr. Speaker, then I'll ask the Govern ment House Leader. Could the Government House Leader give an undertaking to the Assembly that before Monday night we can have at least some copies of the Hospital Visitors Committee report for 1977, which was supposed to be tabled within 15 days of when this session started? MR. HYNDMAN: I have real doubts, Mr.

Speaker, as to whether that's a matter under my jurisdiction, but I understand the Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care has already said that would be done. Optometrists' Training DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minis ter of Advanced Education and Manpower. I would like to know if he can indicate to the House if the government is giving any active consideration to es tablishing a school of optometry in Alberta. DR. HOHOL: That question has been asked from time to time, Mr.

Speaker, and properly so, because repre sentations are being made of that quarter, from not only the optometrists' association in Alberta and Canada but also some of my colleagues in the Legis lative Assembly on both sides of the House, some private citizens. In

summary, it is under considera tion in my office at this time and by private considera tion by people in the Assembly and elsewhere in the province. DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, supplementary question to the minister. Can the minister indicate what consul tation he has had with his colleagues at the minis terial level in the western provinces about establish ing a school that would serve the four western provinces? DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, I would say extensive.

Since I joined the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada, in April 1975, it has been a recurring item on the agenda, at least of the four western provinces.

It's clear today, or at least as clear as I can judge, that the other three provinces — British Columbia, Sas katchewan, and Manitoba — are not in a position or do not feel their manpower ratio of optometrists to the population would warrant a school of optometry, and indicated two things: they would be interested in a school in the west; they would not be in a position for several reasons to move in their own province, but would be watching carefully and would want to be apprized of any consideration we may give this subject.

I know that when we meet again in the fall of this year the matter will be on the agenda of the four provinces in the west. DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. Can the minister indicate what assistance is available to Alberta students who are going to Ontario to take the course of optometry?

1000 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 DR. HOHOL: The University of Waterloo, Mr. Speaker, provides a maximum number of spaces for the prov inces of western Canada. For Alberta it happens to be seven. They are not always filled, because it depends on the capacity or the entrance qualification. By the way, it's of interest to note that those who speak of an open-door policy, that whoever wants to come in to become anything he wishes to — is not the case at the University of Waterloo. People have to qualify in a significant way to enter the school of optometry.

This year we have four students at the university studying optometry. They pay the full cost — and this too is of importance to note in the context of other debates we have here on the matter of tuition fees — of operating expenses that they incur at the Universi ty of Waterloo. The program being of multiple years' duration — I don't want to guess what it is, but six years seems to be the number, if not seven. That puts it in the context of both the years of entry and then entrance into the professional labor force, and the cost of tui tion at the University of Waterloo. DR. BUCK: Mr.

Speaker, unless I missed something with the minister's stick-handling job, the question I asked the hon. minister was: what assistance is available to Alberta students who are going to Ontario? That was my question. DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, this isn't the first time the hon. Member for Clover Bar uses the term "stick- handling" when he asks questions of me. He just can't forget the days when I . . . DR. BUCK: The question is fine. It's the answer that is "stick-handling". DR. HOHOL: . . . the days when I used to go around him easily — in the ice arenas, you know. He simply can't forget it.

And stealing bases on him when we played baseball — but that's a different matter. I see it still bothers him, and I'm sorry about that. I suspect he should have some concerns about other schools also, those that might help the growth of . . . DR. BUCK: Just answer the question. DR. HOHOL: The Students Finance Board, Mr. Speak er, provides about the most exemplary, most munifi cent, and most fulfilling kind of capacity for students to attend postsecondary institutions in Alberta or elsewhere, including the school of optometry at Waterloo. DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary to the Premier.

Can the Premier indicate if there has been any discussion in Executive Council of using some of the heritage trust funds to set up a school of optome try in the province of Alberta? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, no consideration has been given to that matter to this point. MR. GOGO: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Advanced Education and Manpower. The inference of the previous question seems to indicate there's a drastic shortage of optometrists in Alberta. I would like to ask the Minister of Advanced Education if this is so. Is there a dire need for more optome trists in the province of Alberta?

MR. SPEAKER: This is quite a matter of opinion, and as far as I know it's also a matter of public knowledge. Commonwealth Games Funding MR. BRADLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct my question to the hon. Minister of Recreation, Parks and Wildlife.

In light of the minister's announcement regarding supplementary funding of $3 million to the Commonwealth Games Foundation, and in the con text of an editorial appearing today in the Edmonton Journal, I would like to ask the minister if the $3 million announced here today are the funds required to pay the bills the city of Edmonton appears to be assessing the Games Foundation for indirect services. MR. ADAIR: Mr. Speaker, no — if I can just say that in that particular fashion.

The funds were provided today to the Commonwealth Games Foundation as part of a partnership arrangement in which we, along with the city of Edmonton and the government of Canada, have a responsibility to assist in meeting the needs of the foundation. It was as a result of a request to us from the foundation relative to some of the needs they have placed before us, not including any of the discussions that may have taken place with the city and the foundation. It was related to the foundation only, and not to the city of Edmonton. Physiotherapy Services MR. BATIUK: Mr.

Speaker, my question will be directed to the hon. Minister of Hospitals and Medical Care. This is referring to an

article in the Vegreville Observer of April 20. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. We had a reference like this in the preceding question. Hon. members are entitled to ask their questions directly for the information which they wish to have, without attempting to have press reports confirmed or denied. MR. BATIUK: Mr. Speaker, if I put the question I would have to have a little

preamble so the minister would know what I am calling about. As I say, this was regarding a visit to the town of Vegreville by the hon. Leader of the Opposition. I must say that I favor and welcome visits from all hon. members. Vegreville has indeed become an exciting place to visit since the change of government in 1971. Mr. Speaker, even Her Majesty is slated to visit Vegreville this summer. Mr. Minister, to quote: . . . when we have a Heritage Trust Fund, can we not afford a physio-therapist in Vegreville? The Hospital Board in Vegreville should make the decisions rather than a minister in Edmonton, [said] Mr.

Clark. Mr. Minister, are you in any way undermining the decisions of hospital boards in Vegreville or any other place?

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 1001 MR. SPEAKER: The question is not correct as to form, but instead of working on the draftsmanship perhaps we could get to the substance. MR. MINIELY: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member's question is related to the funding of the Vegreville hospital and a specific program, in this case physio therapy. As I've said in the House before, we have provided the hospital system in Alberta with the most generous operating funding of any province in Cana da. Within that, hospitals are expected to determine their priorities and fund their programs accordingly. Dominion Day MR.

GOGO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a ques tion for the Minister of Labour. Some time ago I asked the minister about the designation of a holiday: July 3 being a Monday, did the province of Alberta have jurisdiction in declaring that a holiday under the Canada Elections Act? The minister indicated that he would respond. I wonder if he has a response to that question. MR. CRAWFORD: Yes, Mr. Speaker. When July 1 falls on a Saturday the situation would not call for any special arrangements to be made by the provin cial government in respect to it.

If any consideration is granted or bargained for in regard to the possibility of an additional day off on such a weekend, it is a matter between the employers and employees. I would note that in a number of collective bargain ing agreements that sort of thing has been taken care of, according to my information, and in other firms it could well be a matter of custom. But it is not a matter of regulation. MR. GOGO: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the Provincial Treasurer, as perhaps the largest employer in Alberta. Will the public servants of Alberta be given a holiday on Monday, July 3? MR. LEITCH: Mr.

Speaker, the procedure, and it's covered in the terms of the master agreement be tween the government and the public service, is that when such holidays fall on a Saturday or Sunday, the following Monday would be observed as a holiday. I would anticipate that practice being followed again this year. Purple Gas Regulations MR. PURDY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to address a ques tion to the Provincial Treasurer.

Since the introduc tion of the farm fuel allowance in the provincial budget of '78-79, the reduction of gasoline tax and further increase in the farm fuel allowance, non- farmers such as construction companies and recrea tional users have made representation to me regard ing new regulations stating that purple gas can no longer be used by non-farmers. Can the minister clarify the fuels to be used by the farmers and non- farming groups? MR. SPEAKER: It would seem that the hon. member is asking a question which is a matter of regulation and public knowledge.

There would be better ways of seeking the answer than in the question period. MR. PURDY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the Provincial Treasurer. With the regulations in place and the policy change, can the minister clarify? Have regulations been sent to the bulk dealers in the province indicating what fuels must be used by what groups? MR. LEITCH: Mr. Speaker, if the question is, have regulations been passed and distributed, the answer is yes, although I would have to check on just who has received copies of the regulations. MR. PURDY: A further supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, to the minister.

Farmers have made repre sentation to me that to prove themselves as farmers under the new regulations and policy, they must fill out a very complicated form each time they buy fuel from a different bulk dealer. Would the minister consider changing the policy, to have farmers apply directly to the provincial government and the gov ernment issue them with a card that could be pre sented to the bulk dealer? MR. LEITCH: Mr. Speaker, we'll consider that. MR. PURDY: One further supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

In view of the fact that there seems to be some confusion within the ranks of the farm population and the non-farm population, would the minister's office consider an advertising program set ting forth who is eligible and who is not eligible to use purple gas, such as in recreational vehicles and construction vehicles? MR. LEITCH: Mr. Speaker, it would be our objective to have the changes, brought about as a result of the changes in the taxation for gasoline and diesel fuels and the increase in farm fuel transportation allow ance, be as smooth and cause as little difficulty as possible.

If after a little period of experience with the new bill and regulations it appears that an advertising program or some additional way of communicating to the people of Alberta would be helpful, we'd certainly do that. Freight Rates MR. MANDEVILLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Transportation. It is with regard to the recent transportation workshop held in Lethbridge. Could the minister indicate whether the subject of Crows- nest rates was discussed, and if the minister pre sented the Alberta government's views on the reten tion of the Crowsnest rates? DR.

HORNER: Mr. Speaker, a very satisfactory trans portation workshop was sponsored by the Oldman River Planning Commission in Lethbridge. There was a variety of speakers there, including me. However, there wasn't any detailed discussion about the Crow rates. Our position remains unchanged: that the sta tutory rates should stay in effect until some other major changes take place. MR. MANDEVILLE: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Could the minister indicate what negotia tions the government is carrying on at the present

1002 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 time with the Canadian Transport Commission and directly with the railways in regard to the Crowsnest rates? DR. HORNER: Mr. Speaker, we're not carrying on any negotiations with regard to the Crowsnest rates at this time. We are continuing to carry on negotiations, discussions, and anything else that we possibly can to try to improve the rail freight situation in the province. MR. MANDEVILLE: One final supplementary ques tion, Mr. Speaker.

Could the minister indicate the policy or the position of the government with regard to the suggestion brought up at the workshop to abolish the Crowsnest rates and implement a tender system for hauling grain? DR. HORNER: Mr.

Speaker, I think the proposition was put forward by one of the speakers, as a private view as a matter of fact, but it coincided with the proposition we put before WEOC; that is, to have some sort of government ownership of the rail beds in this country and get some competition back in the railway by the so-called hook-and-pull methods and tendering out the pulling, if you like, of the trains. But that was not in relation to the Crow rates. Highway Signs — Vandalism MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Deputy Premier and hon. Minister of Trans portation.

About a year or so ago the department introduced a unique idea of providing signs for people who wanted them, with a hope that it would reduce vandalism of signs on the highway. Has there been any marked decrease in the vandalism of signs on our highways? DR. HORNER: Mr. Speaker, I'd have to take that question as notice and inquire from my officials as to the situation at the moment. Certainly, the early response to the program was very positive. My un derstanding is that certainly the municipal bodies are appreciative of it. But I can't give you a qualitative answer today. Cold Lake Park MR. HANSEN: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to place a question to the Minister of Recreation, Parks and Wildlife. As reported in the Grand Centre-Cold Lake paper, the Sun, is the Cold Lake Park going to be abandoned for another place called French Bay? Are they going to work there this summer or at the Cold Lake Provincial Park? MR. ADAIR: First, Mr. Speaker, the answer would be no. Secondly, I should indicate to the members that French Bay is not a provincial park; it's a Department of Transportation campsite.

I think we have had dis cussions with people of the area about the future possible takeover of that and development of another part of the Cold Lake Park. I believe some $161,000 will be spent this year on the Cold Lake Park itself, as provided in the budget. That will cover the likes of the control building, day-use trails, a boat-launch fa cility, and some planning for the balance of the area. MR. HANSEN: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. How much money has been spent to this date in that park? DR. BUCK: Order Paper. MR.

SPEAKER: Another question for statistics, and I would respectfully suggest that the hon. member obtain it either directly by memorandum or on the Order Paper. DR. BUCK: It uses a minute and a half in caucus. Western Canadian Development MR. MUSGREAVE: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to address my question to the Minister of Business Development and Tourism. Could the minister advise if he's aware of an economic conference being held in Calgary, starting today, to discuss the westward movement of population and financial resources of Canadians? MR. DOWLING: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I can.

It's a con ference involved substantially with delegates from the private sector and some politicians. The confer ence is on social and economic trends in western Canada. I think it's significant that it's the first con ference of this kind to be held in western Canada. It indicates to me a strong swing to the west from central Canada. MR. MUSGREAVE: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. Could the minister advise what agencies are involved in sponsoring this conference? MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, I believe it's sponsored by a Calgary economic development organization and Statistics Canada, and the C.D.

Howe Institute is involved in some way. There are speakers from Al berta Gas Trunk Line, the former justice of the Supreme Court, Mr. Justice Emmett Hall, and other speakers of that note. I think it's truly significant. They're talking about trade with the Pacific Rim coun tries, transportation difficulties in western Canada, and other major agenda items. MR. MUSGREAVE: Mr. Speaker, a final supplementa ry.

In view of the involvement of federal government agencies, and knowing the attempts of our Executive Council to stimulate trade of Alberta products in Pacific Rim countries, I wonder if the minister could advise if in future conferences of this nature he would try to have input at the ministerial level for the benefit of our province. MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, I can't discern at the moment whether I was in fact invited. It may have been that I was, and was unable to attend. However, we do have substantial representation from our de partment, from a member of our research and analy sis branch. MR. CLARK: Mr.

Speaker, a further supplementary question. Does the hon. minister recall that he along with two of his colleagues were invited to take part and didn't? MR. SPEAKER: Order please.

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 1003 MR. DOWLING: What I would suggest is that there are priorities in government. I would suspect that the matters at hand are of extreme importance. If the hon. Leader of the Opposition thinks he can flit around the province and do little things, that's fine. I understand he's going. School Curriculum MR. ZANDER: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education. Could the minister inform the Assembly if it is the policy of the Department of Education to use in Alberta's classrooms educational materials of mostly Canadian content and printed in Canada, preferably in Alberta?

MR. KOZIAK: Mr. Speaker, that is a policy we have set as a goal. Of course in many cases the final restriction that the hon. member placed on the learn ing resources, that they be printed in Alberta, is one that, although we would like to see it ultimately happen, is not always capable of achievement. MR. ZANDER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the minister. Is the minister aware that the grade 1 students in the elementary classrooms in Spruce Grove are counting American dimes and nickels on their worksheets?

Is it because they are worth more, because that is the policy of the local jurisdiction, or is that material not available in Canada? MR. KOZIAK: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I was not aware. I now am aware. Secondly, the learning resources available are many. Some are compulsory in terms of the course being taught. In many cases, teachers in jurisdictions purchase additional workbooks and materials they feel would be useful as supplementary or enrichment materials. Now those materials are printed all over North America and elsewhere.

On occasion the school boards or the teachers involved make a deci sion that that particular bit of material would be useful in supplementing the normal materials availa ble in the classroom, and it may well be that the source of that material is somewhere other than Canada. Heritage Trust Fund Debentures MR. BATIUK: Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, my next question will be to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. It's a follow-up of the

article which states . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Surely the hon. mem ber can identify the information he wishes to have and then ask for it, without having recourse to a newspaper, an encyclopedia, or some other source. DR. BUCK: I'd sure hate to repeat that stuff you write, John. MR. BATIUK: All right, Mr. Speaker, I'll try to rephrase it. Could the hon. Provincial Treasurer inform me whether some policy has been changed that I'm not aware of, that money from the Alberta heritage trust fund could be loaned to farmers at 10 per cent and money loaned from it to Imperial Oil at 8 per cent?

Is this something new, Mr. Minister? MR. CLARK: ADC, John. DR. BUCK: Can't even read, John. MR. LEITCH: Mr. Speaker, I'm not aware of any moneys that were loaned to Imperial Oil from any of the divisions of the Alberta heritage savings trust fund. I suspect what may have been in the member's mind was the purchase of debentures from the Alber ta heritage savings trust fund of $100 million each from Cities Service and Gulf. In both cases the percentage of interest paid on those loans was slight ly in excess of 8 per cent,

whereas at the same time moneys were being lent from the heritage fund in other areas at two or three percentage points higher than that. But as I pointed out at the time of filing those documents in the House, the debentures were not simple loans from the fund to the two participants in the Syncrude project. Rather, those debentures car ried a convertibility feature whereby the fund could acquire an equity interest in the plant equal to the amount of the loan, the amount of the debenture. Of course the convertibility feature of those loans was a very valuable one, Mr. Speaker.

Its value varies with the type of security, with the time they have to exercise the option to convert to equity, and so on. But generally speaking, the convertibility fea ture will mean that the loan will be 2 or 3 per cent below the going rate for loans. That of course was the case with the debentures. They were on commercial terms. The interest rate was at 8 per cent or a little higher. But that was solely because as part of the terms of that loan the heritage fund could become an equity owner of the plant for amounts up to the amount of the debentures. Farm Loans MR. MOORE: Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to supplement briefly the remarks of the Provincial Treasurer by saying that loans from the Ag. Development Corpora tion, which are from the general revenue fund of the province and not the heritage savings trust fund, are made to farmers in many instances too, being beginner farmer and dairy loans, at an effective inter est rate of 7 per cent, which in fact is considerably below the prime lending rate today and indeed well below the loans mentioned by the Provincial Treasurer. I'd also like to respond to a question the hon. Member for Vermilion-Viking asked me yesterday, Mr.

Speaker, with respect to beginner farmer loans, and advise the Assembly that since the inception of the beginner farmer loan program through the Alber ta Agricultural Development Corporation, 435 loans amounting to just over $21 million have been provided. MR. MANDEVILLE: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Minister of Agriculture. Could the minister indicate what the guaranteed loans are that farmers get through ADC, where ADC as lending agent guarantees the loans? MR. MOORE: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Very briefly, we have a program called AFDL, Alberta farm development

1004 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 loan, where an individual farm operator is eligible, on application to a chartered bank and on the decision of that chartered bank, to receive loans for operating purposes, for capital purposes, in an amount not to exceed $75,000, at 1 per cent above prime, those loans being guaranteed by the Alberta Agricultural Development Corporation. I don't have the exact figures, Mr. Speaker, on the amount of those guarantees by ADC, but they are indeed very substantial. DR. BUCK: The percentage is 10.5. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Minister for Business Devel opment and Tourism wishes to supplement an answer. Solar and Wind Energy Research (continued) MR. DOWLING: Mr. Speaker, in further response to the hon. Leader of the Opposition regarding the ener gy resources research fund, it is in the budget of the Department of Energy and Natural Resources. It's administered by them and operated by the Alberta Research Council. The program is called SWERP, solar and wind energy research program. Briefly, its objectives are the monitoring of solar and wind resources in Alberta, including upgrading of meteorological network.

We have a great deal of information now at hand. Our purpose is to disse minate that information. It is now the largest library of its kind in Canada. Its budget last year was $290,000, and the requested budget for '78-79 is $606,000. MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I don't mean to correct the hon. minister, but it's not called SWERP. ORDERS OF THE DAY head: GOVERNMENT MOTIONS head: (Committee of Supply) [Dr. McCrimmon in the Chair] MR. CHAIRMAN: The Committee of Supply will come to order. Culture MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Minister, do you have any open ing remarks? MR. SCHMID: Yes, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, as minister responsible for Culture I am sure I am responsible for one of the most exciting departments of this government. [applause] Thank you, thank you. Especially so, since I've been lucky enough to inherit, and have on staff ever since, a deputy minister who not only works as hard as can be expected but puts in seven days a week and sometimes many more hours a day than are normally required for performance of any type of job within the civil service. I'm saying seven days a week, Mr.

Chairman, because quite often either he has to step in for me if I'm somewhere else in the province or I call him from my office late at night to try to get additional information. I know then that he also is working, as well as I. So I would like to express to him especially my appreciation and thanks for his dedicated service to the people of Alberta, to this government, and of course specifically to Alberta Culture. Also, Mr.

Chairman, since our Minister of Educa tion is still here, maybe I should express that his loss is without a question Alberta Culture's gain, namely in receiving the most able service of a former infor mation office of his, Mary Layman. She is a most outstanding woman. The work she has accomplished in the short while she has been with us is without question our gain, as I've said before, and hopefully not Alberta Education's loss. I hope they can replace her with someone; I'm quite sure it will be hard to have someone like her. Also, Mr.

Chairman, I would like to mention the other members of the outstanding staff in Alberta Culture and in so doing maybe review some of the programs, what is being done. In our cultural devel opment division we have assistant deputy minister Walter Kaasa, who is known not only for the work he has done in the past in cultural development but also for his great acting abilities. I don't think a year goes by without his being involved in some kind of play in one of our local theatres or, for that matter, in a theatre out of town. Mr. Chairman, I think visual arts is one of the most difficult to administer and to help.

In this case we are also very fortunate to have someone who is well known throughout Alberta, and in fact Canada, for his artistic endeavors and the great number of paintings bought by collectors across the country. We also are lucky to have his service in the development of our visual arts. Again a very untiring worker, not only for Alberta Culture but specifically for the painters, ceramicists, weavers, and so many others in the prov ince of Alberta. Mr. Chairman, I think without question the perform ing arts are the most active and explosive part of our cultural development.

If I could just take one example: last Saturday we had a workshop for our community concert series program. Three years ago we had three organizations which brought dancers, musicians, or other kinds of performing artists to dif ferent municipalities in Alberta. Last year we had 67, and this year we have 105 registered.

Whether it's bringing the Korean Little Angels to Drumheller or the One Third Ninth trio even to small hamlets sometimes, to have the children there at least see what instruments look like that are not normally seen at home; or whether it is to have dancers, as I've said before, or singers, or drama, or whatever else may be performed in the community, that performance is very important, not more or less put on by Alberta Culture, not put on by someone from the city, but by the community themselves.

Vol unteers for the community came here last Saturday to select those programs from what we call Show case, and then take them to the communities. It is something most commendable, and I think these vol unteers also deserve the highest commendation. Of course in saying that, I would also specifically like to commend Mr. Robert Cook, our director of performing arts, who is doing such an outstanding job and is helped quite magnificently by Mr. Ken Graham, the

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 1005 director for performing arts on tour. Mr. Chairman, one of our employees left us recent ly, and I should name her: Mrs. Alice Polley. I think she has done an outstanding job in her respective profession and her responsibility to develop drama in Alberta. I'm quite sure she will be a great loss not only to our department but to the people of Alberta. Again I would like to express our appreciation to her for a job well done, and I hope we can still call on her good services at least once in a while.

I would say without any question the activity of our film and literary arts branch is world-known. Mr. Chairman, it may be known to you that a little while ago a young lady with two children in the town of Hanna received first prize in our novel contest and, in receiving that first prize from Alberta Culture, has sold that novel not only in Canada but in Great Britain and the United States as well. I understand she now has sold her film rights.

In other words, with the first novel that young lady ever had published, she now has in the vicinity of at least $150,000 to $200,000 income from that novel encouraged by the film and literary arts branch under the direction of John Patrick Gillese, who I'm quite sure is known as an outstanding writer. The Chinook Arch publication he put out in 1967 may still be on many bookshelves in this province. Mr. Chairman, having said that, only about two or three months ago $1,500 was granted to a young lady to finish a manuscript for a national competition for a first novel.

In the meantime she has received a $50,000 first prize from, I think, McLelland and Stewart for the publication of her novel. She again is an Alberta novelist. So I think that shows that this program is going forward with great strides. Mr. Chairman, the hon. Member for Clover Bar may remember the first prize was awarded to his constitu ency for the best historic work of the year at that time. This year I'm quite happy to inform you that the first prize went to the town of Fort Macleod for their production of the history of Fort Macleod and district.

In our library services I think I have to mention someone who recently retired and gave untiring efforts and work to the development of library serv ices while it was still in its embryo stage and, as you all know of course, among the lowest if not the lowest in monetary support from the provincial gov ernment, namely Mr. Ted Wiltshire. I think his sense of justice and his fine sense of capability in dealing with various librarians from various places in Alberta is something that I think had to be [done by] a gentleman like him.

He really was a gentleman, and I would like again to express to him our appreciation for having helped us to at least get our library system started, which now is, I'm quite sure, capably taken over by our new director of library services, Mr. Joe Forsyth. Mr. Chairman, another of our people who has left us, again to get into better things, is Orest Krulak, who is now not only director of cultural heritage, which he was in Alberta, but director of multicultura lism for Canada.

What better training ground could he have had than the province of Alberta, where so many different people from so many different nationa lities have worked together and are working together in peaceful co-existence to make this one of the finest provinces in our great nation? Mr. Chairman, having named a number of gentle men in charge of respective departments, divisions, and branches in Alberta Culture, I can only say that one of the finest additions we have had in the past is a young lady by the name of Beth Bryant.

Sometimes I have to tell her she had better not work as many hours as she does, because she has children and a husband. Whenever I go somewhere, Beth happens to be there, and is interested in the development, encouragement, and preservation of our diverse her itage. Again we have nothing but the best efforts from her and the employees in her division and branch in this respect. Mr. Chairman, what else can I say? I think one of the finest legacies the last government left — and I'm quite sure the hon.

Member for Clover Bar will agree with this — is without any question the Jubilee auditoriums, which were built in commemoration of the fiftieth anniversary of the province of Alberta. I would just like to remind my hon. colleagues of the effect the auditoriums have, and also that we have a seventy-fifth anniversary coming up. I'm sure the legacy the last government left should at least be improved on, and if not, in fact should probably be extended more, hopefully to other communities, just as a suggestion the minister responsible for Culture could only give in this august Assembly. Mr.

Chairman, I think one of the most difficult things we have to accomplish in Alberta — and by the way, we have received outstanding co-operation from Alberta Transportation — is our archaeological survey program under Dr. Bill Byrne. Can I just say, Mr. Chairman, that any time a highway is built we are informed by Alberta Transportation. They are doing their best to make sure that no archaeological dig gings would be unaccounted for. They make sure that my staff is informed at all times, and in fact, as I said before, don't touch anything unless they consult with us.

I think this just shows what fine co operation with other departments can be had in this government in this connection, because anything they would cover up with a highway of course would be irrecoverable. I would like to express my apprecia tion for that, not only to the minister but to his deputy minister, chief deputy minister, and all his staff who are so very responsive to our requests. Mr. Chairman, having said that, I should also point out that we have in Dr. Bill Byrne one of the outstand ing archaeologists in Canada.

In fact this was con firmed to me at a dinner meeting I had in Ottawa with some people who were trying to get him to go somewhere else and who were assured that this was an impossibility, because the challenges out here were so much greater, so much bigger, because this program was indeed still in its infancy. Mr. Chairman, all I can say is: considering that Alberta may have been the migration route of our native people, of all South Americans in fact coming through Alberta to South America, I think you can well imagine how much work is ahead of us.

In fact, as some people say, while we might be thinking it was the people from Europe who came here to settle this land, much more work has to be done, because it may just have been the other way around. I also have to mention Mr. Dean Clark, who proba bly has one of the most difficult jobs in the Alberta government, because he prepares all the documents for the Historic Sites Board, which then advises the minister what should or should not be a historic site

1006 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 in Alberta. As you well know, Mr. Chairman, there are many, many buildings in this province, in fact 10,000, if not more, that have to be considered within the next few years to make sure we don't lose the most significant factors of our young history in this province. I'm quite sure Mr. Dean Clark is doing the best job possible with the small staff he has. At the same time, I'm sure all colleagues will agree that this is a most important job to be done. Mr. Chairman, these people are most ably led by Dr.

John Lunn, who again is known not only national ly but internationally as well. Because of his reputa tion he is attending numerous international conven tions as president and executive member of a great number of international institutions, because of the contribution he has given in Canada to the preserva tion of our historical resources. Also, one of our most dedicated civil servants is without question Mr. Alan Ridge. I believe it's quite a thankless job sometimes, because even I thought for a while that all this man really preserves are the documents and bureaucratic accumulations of gov ernment.

But this is not so, Mr. Chairman. I'm delighted to say that hopefully very soon we will have in this building some of the exhibits this very able gentleman has collected with his guidance in the archives of Alberta, so we really know what this typical branch of Alberta Culture is all about. Mr. Chairman, out there between the city of Ed monton and the constituency of the hon.

Member for Clover Bar, we have the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village, which is being developed by the government of Alberta to commemorate the sacrifices and con tributions made by our Ukrainian Canadians, their forefathers, and their pioneers who have done so much to make this province what it is today. This is done under the directorship of Mr. Roman Ostashewsky. Mr. Chairman, another gentleman who has also gone on to better things is Mr.

George Earle, who we assigned in 1975 to reassess and revamp the entire finance and administration division of Alberta Culture and who has done such a magnificent job to make sure that all the guidelines, all the kinds of securities that had to be instituted, were going the way they are supposed to be done under The Financial Administra tion Act. For that, I would like to express my sincere appreciation to Mr. George Earle, who has now gone to the city of Edmonton. His work has been taken over by Mr. Batra, who I'm sure will be doing his best to continue the fine work done by Mr. Earle. Mr.

Chairman, without the continuous help, sug gestions, and advice of Mr. Jan Devries and his able assistant June Edey, I don't think Alberta Culture could function as well as it does. These two people are doing their best to keep all the people who apply for financial or cultural assistance to Alberta Culture where the decision has to be made whether this is a legitimate grant approval or not. For that also I would like to express my appreciation, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, having made these remarks, I'm quite sure that during the course of the estimates my hon. colleagues may have some other questions.

But I want to express, as I said before, my appreciation, thanks, and admiration to all the staff members men tioned and in fact to all the staff members of Alberta Culture for their dedication, specifically to help the people of Alberta to develop their cultural abilities, to develop at all times, as far as I'm concerned, the soul of our very being, namely the enjoyment of our cul tural life. MR. YURKO: Mr. Chairman, I just want to take a moment of the House's time to pay tribute to the member himself.

He so eloquently paid tribute to the members of his staff, but I would like to pay tribute to the Member for Edmonton Avonmore for the tremen dous efforts he has given on behalf of the province in this area of culture. I don't know of any minister of the government who has worked as hard and as diligently at a task that he has been assigned as the Minister of Culture with respect to culture. I've said before and will say again that almost single-handedly, with a small group of dedicated people, he has brought about what I have referred to as a cultural renaissance in the province.

Literally, he has made us all proud of our roots and revived the roots of many ethnic organizations or people in the province of Alberta. I happen to know he's gone everywhere himself, to every function. It didn't matter if it was small or large, no function didn't catch his attention. I know he has spent a tremendous amount of time in the giving of himself to the development of the various cultural groups in the province. His time, as I indicated, has been totally dedicated to cultural development, recognition, and reward.

It's my belief that every Albertan owes Horst a debt of gratitude for his work in reviving, extending, and supporting cultural roots and cultural excellence in the province. Cultural events will also be a feature of the Commonwealth Games in Edmonton. Mr. Chairman, I commend the minister for his work in this area. DR. BUCK: Mr. Chairman, I would just like to say one or two things. There's certainly no way that anybody in this Assembly could disagree with the minister's statement about the dedicated civil servants in the Department of Culture, but I guess this isn't that much different from any other department.

I know many of the people in the department personally, I've met many in my responsibilities, and I also know the minister works hard. But that's what he's there for. After all, it's our responsibility here, especially on this side of the House, to make sure he works hard and spends the money wisely.

The first question I'd like to ask the minister is: in light of the fact that grants are a large percentage of just about every vote, can the minister indicate to us what system is now in effect to provide an adequate measure of internal control, and what pre-audit pro cedures are in effect in the auditor's office so that the funds handed out are not handed out without being accounted for? I mean, it's fine to say the minister is doing a good job, because he is. He works very, very hard, and I compliment the minister on that. But at the same time, I want to make sure that the money he's spending is spent wisely.

Because it's not his money, not the government's money; it's the taxpayers' money. That's what we're here for. That's what it's all about. I would like to say to the minister that I'm really quite disillusioned as to the slowness of progress with the Ukrainian Heritage Village at Elk Island Park, because I think that village has great potential. Hav

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 1007 ing cashed a losing mutual fund last year that I bought 10 years ago and that was supposed to make me financially independent . . . I cashed the lousy thing because it was $1,000 less than the money I had put in, and blew the whole thing on a little holiday over in Scotland last year. But that's not the point of the story. The point of the story is that there are some restorations in many parts of Scotland and England now — old country estates, small hotels — and they're using them, and they're excellent restora tions.

With that sort of thing in mind, I can certainly see that if the minister got somebody to really get in gear with that Ukrainian Heritage Village, that could be not only a tourist attraction but a great source of revenue for the village, in that the thing could operate serving ethnic food three or four days a week during the summer. This is what has happened with some of these restorations in England and Scotland. Some of them are in the style of old English pubs with some of the foods they used in the early days.

So I am a little disappointed that there just isn't as much action out there as I think we should see. If the minister can use some of that vigor and ambition of his to direct it in the way of some of my forefathers, I'd be pleased to support him on that. Mr. Minister, a question along that line is: why was there a fire in the old railroad station that burned down? The information I have is that it was being used as living quarters. If we have a building of historic significance, surely we should be taking care to make sure nothing does happen.

At the same time, has there been any liaison between the minis ter's department as to possibly purchasing some of the artifacts from the Shandro museum and moving them to the Ukrainian Heritage Village? I don't know, maybe the two of them can survive separately. But I would just like to know the status and what the relationships are between those two museums. As well, I guess the one in Elk Island Park as such will probably remain there just as an indication of Ukrainian building.

Another point I would like to bring to the minister's attention are two former forts, Fort Assiniboine and Buckingham House in Elk Point. I'm sure the Mem ber for St. Paul has brought it to the minister's atten tion many times. I'd like to know what's going on with those restorations. Also I'd like to put in a plug for the Elk Point museum, which is a private museum in the town of Elk Point. It has just a wonderful collection; the man has done this on his own.

I know the minister doesn't have the freedom to say we can support you or we will help you build a fireproof building, but I think the town of Elk Point . . . I'm sure this representation has been made to the govern ment, because it has been made to me many times, mainly because I go there and look at the thing every other year or so. I think there surely should be some flexibility in our government policies to assist a museum such as that. I'm sure there must be many small museums across the province that would be great tourist attrac tions if they received some assistance.

The fellow in Elk Point is a good case in hand because he says, you know, I've asked the town if I enlarge my building . . . First of all, I don't have the funds to enlarge the building and make it fireproof; secondly, if I do, they'll tax me out of existence. Surely the municipality should be smart enough to know that the benefits accruing to them as a tourist attraction would more than compensate for the reduction if they did some thing about his taxes. So I would certainly like the minister to look into that project at Elk Point, Bucking ham House, and also this private museum.

It would fit right in with what we're trying to do here, if we're talking about getting people to travel across the prov ince. I think this certainly merits the minister's attention. We'll be questioning other areas as we go through the estimates. I'd like the minister to give us just a little more breakdown than we received in question period on how the funds are disbursed from the Western Canada Lottery. I wasn't sure we were get ting the entire picture.

Maybe I just didn't understand the minister's explanation, but funds will be pouring in from that and I'd just like a complete breakdown on how those funds are dispensed. Also, we won't hold the vote up, but we'd like a list of all the grants in each vote and the amounts of the grants that have been made available to individual people. I'm sure that information is available someplace. Mr. Chairman, with those few opening remarks I'd be pleased to proceed with the estimates. MR. SCHMID: Mr.

Chairman, first of all, in mention ing how the grant approval process works, I recognize in the gallery Judy Lindenas, who happens to be one of our departmental officers who makes sure the control system works and checks out all applications specifically in the total resources division for the dif ferent grant applicants. Mr. Chairman, I am jumping now to the Elk Point museum. There I would have to say you can't have it both ways. You can't have control, regulations, guidelines, and policies, and then break them because somebody doesn't happen to want to agree with those guidelines.

The guidelines specifically state that the items in a museum have to be owned by the municipality or at least by non-profit organiza tions. They cannot be owned by an individual because, while an individual in his own lifetime may be quite willing to let people in free or to share the result of sometimes even his life's work of collecting, what happens if that individual happens to pass away rather suddenly or, for that matter, happens to pass away?

Then what happens if there is a building into which his artifacts are placed, and the people who inherit would not want to agree maybe with the disposal of the artifacts or of course the ownership of the building? This is one of the difficult things, and as I have said before, you can't have it both ways. I should just say, Mr. Chairman, that any applica tions have to be accompanied by a sworn declaration as to the applicant as well as disposal of funds. The funds, once they have been provided, again are being controlled.

Within a certain period of time the recipi ents have to report on what the funds were to be used for, and if they have been used for that purpose. If not, they have to be returned. Of course I men tioned Mrs. June Edey before. She in fact does the pre-audit check for all grant applications that go through Alberta Culture. Mr. Chairman, in mentioning the Ukrainian Herit age Village, maybe I should also recognize Mr. Bruce McCorquodale, who is director of one of the finest museums we have in Canada. Quite often visitors

1008 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 who come not only from Canada but from just about any part of the world come out of the museum saying that without any question it is one of the finest contributions that could have been made by the peo ple of Alberta and the government to commemorate and preserve the collection of history and, for that matter, to interpret for future generations what has been done in the province of Alberta. Mr. Chairman, I'm delighted that the hon. Member for Clover Bar finally asked a question on the Ukrainian Heritage Village, because I think we have been working on that for quite some time.

We have probably been receiving some criticism for quite some time, but we had to have that, because without any question we were trying to have a plan for develop ment and not just go in and put up a building here and a building there, and then probably at the end not even have the water if a fire occurred — as has happened, of course — to at least try to quench the fire if at all possible. We understand the fire was the result of a problem in the railroad station.

It has been restored at least to have a watchman live there, but at the time there really wasn't a security guard or watchman at the building, and I guess when the fire got out of control there was no way it could have been extinguished. The National Film Board was there at the time making a movie, and in fact that's why we had a security guard watching the buildings. So I'm afraid we had done everything possible to prevent an occurrence of this kind, but as we all know sometimes these things cannot be prevented. Mr.

Chairman, on the development of the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village, thanks to the fantastic co operation of our previous Minister of Housing and Public Works, the hon. Member for Edmonton Gold Bar, as far as I'm concerned this year we have an excellent program to get this village on the road. Namely, we have development there this year for a curatorial wing, a watchman's house, a refreshment booth, roads and paths, finishing the parking lot, put ting up some buildings, repairing some of the build ings which are there, if possible at least having the railway bed in there.

If we're looking at it anyway I should have said, to put in the railroad bed. The total amount to be spent specifically at the Ukrainian Cul tural Heritage Village this year is at least $1,500,000. Mr. Chairman, to complete the administration storage building begun last year is another $100,000. The total expenditure at the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village this year will be $1,600,000, which of course is a giant step forward as far as the village is concerned. Mr. Chairman, the hon. member also mentioned the Fort Assiniboine project. In fact this has been under construction for quite some time.

The major problem is that the actual Fort Assiniboine couldn't be re-erected the way it was, because of other build ings being there. We are trying to at least make an adaptation of a historic site of that kind. Hopefully, it's an ongoing project. It is helped by the town and the people of Fort Assiniboine. I think the site not only tells the story of the area but provides senior citizens, for instance, with an assembly area. In fact the senior citizens will provide the ongoing museum in the structure being re-erected with logs up there. Mr.

Chairman, again through the excellent co operation of our Solicitor General, we have had a number of prisoners out at Fort Buckingham, or Fort George as it is called, who are quite proud of the work they're doing in archeological diggings, trying to find out where the fort was located, how it was done, and to get the kind of information we need to think and plan the development of the property. We have done that for the last three years and hopefully will get to a conclusion as soon as possible. Mr.

Chairman, whether or not the collections of Shandro village should be acquired for the Ukrainian Heritage Village is something that without any ques tion will have to be negotiated first of all. I'm not so sure whether the Shandro museum is complemen tary to the village. Because as the hon. Member for Edmonton Clover Bar mentioned, while the Shandro museum is really a museum type of exhibit, hopefully in the future the Ukrainian Heritage Village will be a living type of museum.

It's there for an entirely dif ferent concept and I think would be rather comple mentary, because there's also the Basilian Fathers' museum in Mundare. A tourist could then visit the whole circuit, rather than one taking away from the other or saying this is better than the other. I think this is what we really should accomplish, to maybe put them all in one place rather than say what can be done in the different areas. Mr.

Chairman, what more can I say than that we are trying to develop these facilities as fast as we can, especially with the great co-operation we had from the Minister of Housing and Public Works, Mr. Yurko, and the Solicitor General, Mr. Roy Farran. I can only say these prisoners are proud of their accomplish ment, for instance, in cleaning up the historic sites at the Cochrane ranch, in fixing up the St. Augustine historic site in the Peace River country or, for that matter, in helping us in our archeological diggings at Fort George or Fort Buckingham in northeastern Alberta. Mr.

Chairman, to get back to Elk Point, I think the best solution to the whole problem would really be to find a final disposition of what the family's position on these artifacts would be. Maybe from there we could go and see if we can help the gentleman, which otherwise of course is not possible in the guidelines and policies. DR. BUCK: Mr. Chairman, first of all, how many acres of land do we have at Elk Island Park, the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village? Does anybody know? MR. SCHMID: Mr. Chairman, I thought it was some thing around a section. One hundred and sixty acres, I would think. DR.

BUCK: That's what I thought. [interjections] Is that in hectares? The thought I had in mind, Mr. Minister: in light of the fact that our Ukrainian forefathers came across western Canada on the old railroads and trains, has any consideration been given — I know this was one of Frank Lakusta's theories at one time — to using some of the trackage you say is going into place and some of the old locomotives that have been restored in conjunction with the food services and so on? This may be a way to tie in the people who are interested in restoration of our old steam engines.

Can the minister indicate if he has any idea when we might be able to have limited food services? John Batiuk

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 1009 and I are ready to start serving the borsch, the holubchi, and the pyrogies. That will throw Hansard a little there, John. Can the minister indicate when some of these may be put into place so they can serve the tourist? MR. SCHMID: Mr. Chairman, first of all, we really had to get clean water there. Hopefully this will be completed as soon as the administration building is done. In fact in this year's budget we have the erection of a refreshment booth. That of course will be the start of this kind of service.

Hopefully with the co-operation of our Minister of Advanced Education and Manpower we can get a few STEP students to go out there. If we are lucky enough to get a fine young lady and a good young gentleman who happen to enjoy cooking, who knows what we could get into if the refreshment booth is erected on time. MRS. CHICHAK: Mr. Chairman, I hear from my back ground here that the cooking job is being offered to me, but the kitchen is not one of my favorite places. At least it hasn't been to this point. I don't think I would start now.

I would like to make a few remarks more in line with what has been happening from another perspec tive rather than ask the hon. minister some ques tions, although some suggestions may be posed in my remarks. The hon. minister outlined in his opening remarks what has been happening under his ministry with respect to the many cultural programs put in place in the time period of his office. I think quite rightly the hon. Member for Edmonton Gold Bar complimented the hon. minister on the real effort and work that has gone into the whole area of development of culture in this province.

I'd like to put on record the point of view and the feelings of the citizens in the province of Alberta as to how they view the efforts of the minister and the government, and what in fact it has done for them. To begin with, let us say it has minimized perhaps the kind of subtle and sometimes not so subtle dis crimination that had been felt over many decades; perhaps in latter years less so than in the earlier time of this province, nevertheless discrimination against various ethnic groups.

I don't think any one particular group could be singled out, although perhaps some may have felt discrimination more stringently than others. But this did exist. This government set as a priority in its policies the extensive contribution of the people from the various nations to this country, and to this province particularly. Particularly this gov ernment has made the commitment to recognize that and to make that recognition not only on paper or verbal, but in effect a living kind of recognition by the funds and programs that have been made available.

I know that the many ethnic groups whose func tions I have the enjoyment of attending, and meeting and conversing with them, have expressed their grati tude time and time again. Now for the first time, in recent years their children no longer hide the fact that they are of some particular ethnic background other than what we normally refer to as the two founding races in this nation.

Young people are now no longer changing their names to be Anglicized, no longer hiding or attempting to stay with only one language rather than to have two or three languages, at least one of the second languages being their mother tongue.

I think it's important to recognize that many young Albertans have experienced for the first time the ability to develop talent in art, song, dance, and music which perhaps because of lack of financial assistance they otherwise would not have had — not only lack of financial assistance, but the opportunity to perform publicly in various areas throughout the province and the country, and indeed internationally. The hon. Member for Clover Bar referred to the development of the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Vil lage.

I would like to throw out a suggestion to the minister, if he has not already had this under consid eration. I think the development of the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village could be such that it could have activity on a year-round basis, not only singly but perhaps jointly, in somewhat of a triangle from the point of view of a tourist program.

A triangle I might refer to would be the many activities that are now existent and could be enhanced and developed in the city of Edmonton with the completion of the Capital City Recreation Park, the kinds of winter sport that can be developed here, and a route connecting to the Alberta Game Farm. I think the topography in the area of the Game Farm is such that it would lend itself to some winter sports on a triangular tourist route and that, carried through, joining to the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village.

I think many of the artifacts that are housed in the buildings or the buildings that are to be completed certainly should not be closed for the winter and only open in the summer months. I believe I'm correct in recalling that the amount of land available at the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village is a half-section rather than a quarter-section. I may be out some few acres that may have been taken out for either road ways or whatever, but I think it's closer to a half-

section than a quarter-section. I think a lot of winter sport can be developed, because there are some rol ling hills and there's cross-country skiing, and other kinds of winter sports can be developed. If my hon. colleague from Vegreville did some good searching, he might even want to join some enterprising individ ual to do some cooking through the winter months. AN HON. MEMBER: Make moonshine. MRS. CHICHAK: I think we can really develop a cul tural tourist attraction, not only for Albertans but to draw people from other parts of the country and internationally.

Very seriously, I would hope the hon. minister will have his people in the department examine the possibility of such a plan. I would like to make one or two other points. The real benefits and enhancement of the cultural pro grams, the development here in the province, the recognition of the contribution the peoples are mak ing, and the knowledge that all of us have the oppor tunity to learn about the styles of life of peoples from other countries have a great deal to do with our ability to communicate with not only the people from other countries who come here, but in international communication.

Certainly the aspect of international trade is very important. The very real awareness of the government and people of this province, in under standing the style of living of people in other coun tries and knowing something about them, has to improve the communication level, not only from a

1010 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 cultural point of view but also in a trade and intellec tual manner. But surely the beginning of awareness has to be through culture: language, dance, music, and literary works. Mr. Minister, I'd like to say that you've helped Alberta go a long way toward meeting those aspira tions and goals on the part of the peoples who come here, and also on the part of recognition of the governments and peoples of the countries from which those who are here have come. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. MR. SCHMID: Mr.

Chairman, maybe I should mention in this regard that I think in making the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village a living village, considera tion would have to be given, as the hon. member so well pointed out, to having it a year-round village. To shut it down completely in winter, the security alone, once the village is developed, would probably be far in excess of the actual value. I can think of nothing more beautiful than having the Ukrainian Christmas celebrations, for instance, at the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village, looking for the first star out there.

In fact I think I would be one of the first members to be out there trying to find the frosted windows. The more I think about it, the more I like it. Because just after the confluence of the beautiful Ukrainian Orthodox Church and the Ukrainian Catholic Church out there, in having this in one village together, I would say probably for the first time in the history of our people, I think that in itself would speak most eloquently. I thank the hon. member for her suggestions. I also would say she is probably quite correct that the total area of the village is half a section.

Howev er, the present development of the village we are presently looking at is a quarter section. We're look ing at the development of the other quarter

section in the reserve, so the village has just over 300 acres, but the present development actually extends to a quarter

section only. Mr. Chairman, having said that, maybe I should point out to the hon. Member for Clover Bar that the Elk Point-Fort George development, as I've said before, will take some time. It's a three-year archeo logical survey and digging. The University of Alberta only has one year behind itself to do so. The Solicitor General's people are working at the Fort Victoria- Smoky Lake area, so we also should have develop ment in that area as soon as possible. Again I'd like to thank the hon. Member for Edmon ton Norwood for her fine suggestion regarding a year- round operation. MR. GOGO: Mr.

Chairman, first of all, I don't know about the culinary abilities of the Member for Edmon ton Norwood, but I would certainly like to compliment her on the very refreshing hairstyle she wears today in the House. I think it's something to be proud of. Mr. Minister, I'd like to make some observations and then ask some questions if I may. First of all, along with the hon. Member for Lethbridge East, I have many opportunities to see at first hand the results of many of the activities of the Department of Culture.

Last weekend I had the opportunity of representing you at the Kiwanis Music Festival, where they pre sented awards to outstanding students of music. About 1,450 participated. I can assure you, Mr. Min ister, that the service club of the Kiwanis in Leth bridge, and I understand they participate in about 22 around the province . . . Although the funds from your department are not substantial, they're very welcome and go a long way in assisting the service clubs, that volunteer sector that's so important to Alberta in being able to carry out that program each year.

I'm well aware that the Lions in the Crowsnest Pass and the Rotary Club in Red Deer do it, and so on. So I would certainly encourage that. I'd like to make an observation with regard to Herit age Day, that first Monday in August. Around Leth bridge, and I would feel confident it's going on throughout Alberta, I sense that the Heritage Day concept is encouraging people with various ethnic backgrounds to come forward and participate, not only in the Heritage Day activities but in the arts and crafts that are so eminently displayed in our commu nity.

I think it's probably one of the most successful programs this government has ever sponsored. The one thing that sticks out in my mind is that the various groups with European backgrounds who his torically have been reluctant to come forward into the community, and integrate with the community, are now doing that. I think that's very significant. Lethbridge, which is an old coal district, has many Hungarians, some Ukrainians, and some people of various backgrounds who have never really learned to speak the English language because they've always felt out of place within that community.

Mainly because of Culture programs, but particularly the Her itage Day activities with the arts and crafts, they can be so proud to continue to carry forward the skills, arts, cooking, and so on that they have brought from their native lands. I think that's a tremendous program. I'd like to make a comment with regard to Heritage magazine. I've only recently started reading it, and I really wasn't aware it was available to all members of the public. I understand the subscription or produc tion is reaching, I don't know, 15,000 or 20,000 copies bimonthly.

I've had just the most excellent co-operation from one Mary Dawe in your depart ment. I would like to see areas explored whereby people would be encouraged to take out subscrip tions. I don't know how you do it. But I know I've made many people aware of it. They've written, they're getting the magazine, and they're very pleased. I think the department's made a significant contribution to the province through that magazine. I would compliment . . . I'm reluctant to pick out names, but I know I've spoken to that person, and I think that's one you should be very proud of. Mr.

Minister, with regard to the archeological finds going on in the province, I'd like to ask you what success you've had with private sector co-operation. I think that's so important. With a booming province like Alberta and the haste we tend to have for con struction, perhaps many of these finds would be destroyed with the new foundations of these projects going in. I'd like you to respond, if you would, on what co-operation you're having with the private sector. I know in the Lethbridge area, 50,000 strong, within the city, both the hon.

Member for Lethbridge East and I have many opportunities of talking to various groups. The Italian-Canadian Culture Centre,

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 1011 which now has a membership of 1,000, has virtually been reborn in the last several years. Through volun tary donations they've . . . I know you're aware of the building. I think it's a beautiful symbol of voluntarism and togetherness with that ethnic group. I'm pleased you saw fit to assist with that in some way. We have many others — the German-Canadian Club, which I know touches a close spot with you, and many other groups. I really don't want to name them all, but I would name those two in particular.

The Japanese people received co-operation last year in their centennial year, 100 years in this nation. We in southern Alberta, through the Member for Macleod, the Member for Taber-Warner, and the Member for Cardston . . . There are a lot of Japanese people there. As you're well aware, that came about as an awkward situation in 1941. They had an extremely successful year throughout Canada, but in particular in southern Alberta. I want to thank your department for the co-operation the Japanese people received.

I know the Member for Lethbridge East and I had many favorable letters from people of Japanese descent, thanking the government in that regard. With regard to historic sites — and I hope you don't mind my skipping all over here, because I would like to get the comments out — I understand one of the oldest standing buildings in Lethbridge, the Pemmi- can Club, with the oldest private membership group I believe, is being considered as a historic site. I think that's very welcome.

I don't know what difficulties you're faced with, but I seem to recall your mention ing that where historic sites are of particular signifi cant, municipal interest as opposed to province-wide interest, you may be considering either legislation or some form of regulation, whereby local people could decide their own priorities with regard to those struc tures that are important. I welcome that.

I think that's very important, to be consistent with govern ment policy of saying, whatever part of Alberta you're from, if something is of particular significance to you, then you should have that right to declare it a site. I'm sure the jurisdiction of Lethbridge city council welcomes that. Two final points. Mr. Minister, as I said, I'm reluc tant to identify people within your department. How ever, I think those who are deserving should be mentioned, and unfortunately there are probably hundreds. I can only speak of those I'm exposed to. I know Mr.

Walter Kaasa has been just excellent with regard to people from Lethbridge who require assis tance and advice in the performing arts. When I recommend people phoning him at your department, never once have I been advised that he has been anything less than helpful. He's been an inspiration to those groups in southern Alberta, and I assume elsewhere, but particularly in the area the Minister of Municipal Affairs and I represent. He's been a tre mendous help in assisting those people, and if possi ble I would like it if you could pass on those regards to Mr. Walter Kaasa. Finally, Mr.

Chairman, to the minister, in terms of international assistance. Some time ago, I think it was about 10 years ago, through Maurice Strong and others we in Canada had arrived at a federal policy — we're Canadians first and Albertans second — that we would endeavor to contribute in the neighborhood of 1 per cent of the gross national product in terms of helping underdeveloped nations, and so on. We're sorely lacking. I think it's about one-fifth or one- quarter of 1 per cent. But I think Alberta has a unique program in fulfilling its role in international assistance.

I can only speak from a narrow point of view of belonging to a service club where each year we perform in a carol festival, and whatever the contribu tions are, that's doubled by this province. I think that's very welcome assistance to those nations. So, Mr. Minister, I would like you to just comment on those three areas: Heritage magazine, co operation with the private sector on archeological finds, the historic site situation applicable to munici palities and, finally, a

summary of our international assistance program. Thank you very much. DR. BUCK: Mr. Chairman, may I ask the indulgence of the minister and the Chairman. I had to leave as of two minutes ago. I'd just like to make one brief representation to the minister. I feel that the old Victoria Trail that went from Manitoba to Alberta is, for all intents and pur poses, sort of being lost. Part of it runs through the Pakan and Smoky Lake area, and through Fort Sas katchewan. So I just wanted to bring to the minis ter's attention that I feel that's being lost.

Secondly, the fact that Elk Island Park is where the original herd of buffalo came from Montana. With that, I'll just read in Hansard what the minister can comment on. MR. SCHMID: If I may reply first to the hon. Member for Lethbridge West, I can only say of course the philosophy of the Alberta Department of Culture really is to help people to help themselves. I think the city of Lethbridge is a typical example of how far, in fact how fantastically well, a community can develop its own cultural resources if there's just a little support given by something like the Alberta government to develop this resource.

To attend one of those award nights of the Kiwanis music festival is in itself, I think, a really heart-warming event, as I'm quite sure the hon. member will agree. I have been down there a few times to see these young people come forward to receive their awards and sometimes even perform. So all I can say is that this is just one of the programs that I think not only Alberta Culture but all of us are very proud of. Mary Dawe is herself the type of human being — we could not have found anyone else I think to be the editor of Heritage magazine, to which, by the way, we have 42,000 subscriptions right now.

It is not a matter that we could really advertise probably. You know, come and ask for Heritage magazine. But quite honestly, Mr. Chairman, we really can't afford to, because we have a limited budget and, within that limited budget, we have to prepare that magazine and send it not only across Alberta but literally across the world. We have subscription requests from Australia, New Zealand, Europe, the south Pacific, and all over the globe. I say again that we have been very lucky to have someone with as much sensitivity, as much human understanding, as Mrs. Dawe, the editor of this magazine.

For that, of course, she deserves the credit and gratitude of all of us. Mr. Chairman, as far as archaeology and co operation of the private sector is concerned, I think it

1012 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 can only be explained with one word: tremendous. I recall the co-operation we had with Dome Petroleum, which really wanted to go with a pipeline in a certain direction. Then they found dinosaur skeletons. In fact, one dinosaur probably had his head bitten off by a carnivorous dinosaur 100 million years ago.

Dome Petroleum went around that find, informed us about it, and finally — because all the others were shipped across to Europe and to eastern Canada and the United States — we now have the full skeleton of a dinosaur which lived down in that valley, less of course a chewed-up head. Mr. Chairman, just recently we had a new office development in southwest Calgary. There again a site at least 7,000 years old was found. Right now we are investigating it, but again the contractor there gave us nothing but the most outstanding co operation.

So I think that co-operation between the private sector and government really works as long as people try. I have experienced it, whether it's the Rene Le Marchand mansion, the Ritchie Mill here, or the Strand Theatre in downtown Edmonton. I think it works at all times if people realize they are people and get together to do what is really in the interest of all of Alberta and, in this case specifically I would say, because it's archaeology, all of Canada. Mr. Chairman, we are considering introduction of an amendment, hopefully this session or next, ena bling municipalities to declare their own historic sites.

But of course there are some complications, which hopefully we can overcome. We shall see what we can do in that regard. Mr. Chairman, of course it also takes a special type of person to be director of our international assis tance program. Very soon again I will be distributing to all MLAs this year's list of our international assis tance. First, all the programs go directly to the community involved.

All I can say is this: if you consider that sometimes all it is is really a water line from a well to a village, one cow per farmer, some grass seed or, for that matter, a bolt of cloth so garments can be made, I'm quite sure we are literally supplying the hook to catch the fish, not only one fish but many fishes, instead of supplying the fish and then letting the people go hungry again the next day. Mr. Chairman, I think all the questions asked by the hon. Member for Lethbridge West are really the kinds of questions a human being concerned about his fel low man can ask. For that I thank him very much.

Now to reply to the Member for Clover Bar. As far as the trail is concerned, Mr. Chairman, there again I'm glad the hon. member is now thinking of this trail as well, because Alberta Culture has in fact sup ported the Trail North Foundation to investigate not only that trail but other trails which are of signifi cance in northern Alberta. With the help of the Department of Recreation, Parks and Wildlife, I'm quite sure the Trail North Foundation will be able to continue to do their work. DR. PAPROSKI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Very brief ly, I certainly would like to add my support to the remarks of the hon.

Member for Edmonton Gold Bar regarding the minister's hard work, dedication, and his four-plus effort in the evolution of culture in Alberta, and of course his department associates have also done such a tremendous job. I think it should be recognized, and hasn't been stated here, that not only in Alberta has this evolution occurred, but I understand it's spilling over to other provinces and across Canada as an example of what a province can do.

Regarding the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village, I had the opportunity to participate in its formative stages with the minister, the Member for Edmonton Gold Bar, and other members. Being a Canadian of Ukrainian-Polish background, I have a special interest in that particular area. I would like to say, Mr.

Minister, through the Chairman, that I'm certainly pleased with the progress regarding this village, not only in the planning but in the progress to this time; but most important, I think, as an example of the caution that is taken — and it should be taken — to ensure that this village will indeed be an A-1 example of what in fact can be done to show an ethnic group's history, at least for a period of time. I know that Mr. Roman Ostashewsky and his associates in the de partment not only have done but are doing a very dedicated job in their professional capacities in this regard. Mr.

Chairman, I'm truly pleased that it's being done slowly and cautiously, and I want to underline that. I hope the minister doesn't take the words from the hon. member from Fort Saskatchewan that it be rushed on. I think it's very important that it's done carefully to create as authentic a village as possible, considering the period of history that is to be shown there. I hope those involved will continue to pace themselves as they feel necessary, and not be paced because there's a rush. The history took over a hundred years or longer, and there is no need to rush now and try to get all this working overnight.

I hope they continue to use their innovations and sugges tions from a variety of members of the Legislature, as well as the community and the public at large, and put that into a focus at an optimal level, getting everything they can out of it. Mr. Chairman, I believe this village can certainly serve as an example for other ethnic groups to devel op such villages across this province, historical vil lages to represent the historical backgrounds of various ethnic groups. I think it's not only education al, and we all would recognize that.

That education is really important when time flows so quickly, and we get modernized and get into a melting pot. I hope that never completely happens in Canada. At least we'll have that to refer to and say: there's that village and that represents our background; if you don't believe it, go out there and have a look; it's authentic. But it also serves as a very important tourist attraction. Mr. Minister, if we could have a number of other villages like this across Alberta representing the variety of groups, the tourist attraction factor would be just tremendous in these various zones. Finally, Mr.

Chairman, I as an MLA certainly wouldn't hesitate to participate any time in making those holubchi, which are cabbage rolls as most members know, and pyrogies, which are potato dumplings — at least for one day, providing I can get at least one plateful. AN HON. MEMBER: Cheese dumplings. DR. PAPROSKI: Cheese dumplings if you wish. They're cheese dumplings too. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make one other point.

May 3, 1978 ALBERTA HANSARD 1013 If ever I've received compliments regarding the de partment, and I have since the department has been under the minister's direction, this past year or two I've received a tremendous number of compliments regarding the performing arts and the support the department has given. I would like to indicate that for the record.

Finally, the various cultural groups in my constituency and the many singular individuals who have received support and tremendous assistance in all directions for the department: I would like to record those as a thank you especially to the minister and his department. The final remark is that the fantastic support regarding international aid must be underlined. As I indicated last year on the same vote, we forget so quickly when we're sitting here with so much abun dance that there are people who are starving and haven't got the very small basic things. We're doing so much.

I wish every province were doing as much. We can do more of course, but I wish every other province would do as much, and it would be a heck of a lot better world to live in. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. MR. BATIUK: Mr. Chairman, I would be remiss if I did not say a few words and compliment the hon. minis ter, as I am one MLA on the advisory board of the Ukrainian Heritage Village near Elk Island Park. I really appreciate the understanding of the hon. minis ter insofar as culture is concerned. I do not believe there could be a better location.

The Ukrainian Vil lage is only a few miles from where the first Ukrainian settler, Mr. Eleniak, came 87 years ago, in 1891, and where he lived and farmed until his pass ing in approximately 1956 at the age of 96 years. His descendants, who are already in the many hundreds — I'm sure if you could get them all in one area there would be enough to incorporate into a good-sized town — are all over the North American continent and actually all over the world. However, there are still some within the Vegreville constituency. I must say that I drive past the area twice weekly.

With the change I see there every week, I can assure you that the $1.6 million will go before the year is over. I am very glad of the statement you made that the intention of the programs is to help those people to help themselves. Another area of support that you have given over the last few years is the Ukrainian Cultural Festival in Vegreville. This is the only Ukrainian festival west of the one in Dauphin, Manitoba. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to visit the one in Dauphin, but I have heard from numerous people that the one in Vegreville already exceeds the one in Dauphin.

Another area I am very proud of: that it's not only the Ukrainians who participate. When you look in the telephone directory under Vegreville and area, there are so many ethnic groups in the area, I'm sure probably more than in any other area in the province. When you look that Mrs. Mckenzie was past presi dent of the Ukrainian Cultural Festival, you can see that the participation is not only by Ukrainians, I think . . . [interjections] Pardon? Regardless, this is right, she was the past president and did a great job in its promotion. I hope you continue with your programs.

Over the years that you have been Minister of Culture there have been many other programs. The programs didn't amount to much money, maybe $1,000 or $1,500. It was an incentive, and through those pro grams people went along in many ways. Those are going to be landmarks in the future. I also appreciate all the ambition of the hon. minis ter. I recall about three years ago the minister was in the hospital, critically ill, and in appreciation of all he did I thought the least I could do was visit him. I did, and when I went there, surprisingly the bed was in a mess but he wasn't there.

Knowing his condition I asked an orderly, and he said, well he should be around someplace; maybe he just went out to the waiting room. I looked around. I went to the waiting room and looked through the window. He was in his wheel chair about three blocks down. He was going to some meeting. So, Mr. Chairman, you can see the dedication of the hon. minister. So just for recognition purposes and for the record in Hansard: Mr. Minister, I appreciate all that you have done. MR. COOKSON: It sounds like a Ukrainian festival in here lately. AN HON. MEMBER: What about the English? MR.

COOKSON: I'd just like to add a few words to what has been said this afternoon. Perhaps then we can eliminate it through the estimates, Mr. Chairman. First of all, to the minister, I have had opportunity to be involved slightly with the Red Deer Folk Festival. I think it's an excellent program, and I know I speak for all the people in that area, who really appreciate and admire what is being done. I'm not sure what the province is responsible for in terms of financing, and you might comment on that. Mr. Minister, the important thing in that particular festival is that all ethnic groups are involved.

I think that's extremely important, because I would venture to say that one walks a sort of delicate path in the province of Alberta and in Canada as a whole because of the great mass of ethnic groups which make up Canada. Sometimes, Mr. Minister, I get the feeling we have to be careful that we don't divide instead of unite. I'm sure you're aware of this prob lem, and that you try to balance this out across the province. That's why I'd like to stress the importance of things like the Red Deer Folk Festival, which includes all the ethnic groups that wish to participate. They are free to do so.

First of all I might ask you to comment on the legislation you administer for historic sites. It con cerns me a little that we may be acquiring a great mass of property out there somewhere on which no changes can be made without approval, of course, and for which the individuals who at present own the property are going to say down the road: Mr. Minister and government of Alberta, this is your baby; you're going to have to take responsibility for maintaining and, if necessary, upgrading it.

I'd like to know, in view of your budget of $20.5 million this year, which is not a large amount in terms of the total budget of the province . . . It may be, when I start talking priori ties, a pretty substantial amount of money in terms of some of the departments. But when we acquire a property, a building, or whatever it may be for its value as a historic site, I think it's important that we be very careful and cautious and move fairly slowly

1014 ALBERTA HANSARD May 3, 1978 about acquiring some of this property and then down the road finding the possibility of a tremendous esca lation in the cost of maintenance. Perhaps you might comment on that. I might even mention that with regard to the Ukrainian heritage farm. I understand there is $1 million, perhaps $1.5 million, to spend on that this year. I would like to know whether you have some kind of projection as to what it is going to cost to maintain and perhaps bring this up to a complete project.

The other thing I'm wondering is whether you're involving any volunteers in its operation and main tenance, whether there's a long-term projection on that. For example, Mr. Minister, the Heritage Park at Calgary is a wonderful spot and a great thing to see, but I know it's costing a great deal of money. I know we have to have these things throughout the prov ince, in memory of our history and the way in which it developed, but they have to be very carefully managed.

I notice this summer that Saskatchewan has two or three places well distributed throughout the province, where they have developed quite large and fully complete museums. I'm not sure whether the prov ince of Alberta has looked at that, a sort of balancing right across the province. I throw that out for possi ble consideration. Whatever we do, the other thing is to try to encourage volunteer participation and, if at all possi ble, encourage private enterprise to become involved. If the Member for Vegreville is going to be cooking up these special foods, we might be able to nail him for some of this.

I think it's extremely important that an ethnic group get totally involved. That's really part of what it's all about. I hope you'll look at this possibility too. MR. SCHMID: Mr. Chairman, I have a short reply. A volunteer group is involved. In fact I think if the hon. member had listened to the hon. Member for Vegre ville, he would have heard there is a volunteer board doing a fine job of contributing to the development and, after of course, hopefully the operation of the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village. Mr.

Chairman, out of 10,000 or more historic sites we have, so far we have only about 25 classified and maybe about the same number of registered historic sites. So I don't think the fear the hon. member expresses is at present as enormous as one would think. I should also say that to declare a historic site only means that the minister has to be informed as to any changes on the property or dispositions of the property, then the minister can make the decision whether or not the property should be acquired.

But presently the government does not own any historic sites so far declared, unless of course they are pro vincial historic sites. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, very quickly to the minister. I want to comment to the minister that the cultural and artistic groups made available to the rural communities of Alberta certainly are appre ciated very much. We have had some of them in our local community, and they have been very, very well received. I'd like to pass that information on to the minister. I want to comment on a second area.

We had an ethnic dinner in our new cultural/recreation centre, for which all the various groups prepared their own typical food. We had about 1,000 people at it. At that time, when I looked at the various groups — we had Japanese, French, Dutch, German, Polish, Russian, Chinese, Norwegian, Danish, Hungarian, Swedish, central European, and British — it came to my atten tion that all contributed and prepared their typical food, and wore the dress of their country.

It was a very great feeling to see all these people you work with daily bring their background and cultural feeling forward in the assembly that evening. It was excel lent. It's a good thing that happens in Alberta, and Canada I guess. Maybe I've come in a little late on the discussion with regard to the Ukrainian Heritage Cultural Village. I was wondering, related to that kind of thing — we have various groupings like that in different areas of the province; this is a typical situation in other areas too — has the minister some kind of program in mind with regard to this type of cultural village concep

Document details

Collection	Alberta — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	19780503
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	L18 S4 19780503 1430 01 han.pdf
Language	en
Format	json
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0190420a02b9772cf98a2c98157acf335bd1d263

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (json).