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~1"-Y :!l,l9SO The i:iouse :nee at 3:00 p.:. :·lr. Spea!ce .r in ::he C~air. !1R.SPEAJ<E..' (Si;:ws): ~. JX1!ESON: Tape t;o. 1670 .O.H-1 Orde:-, please! The hon. t:he Leader of the Opposition . :otr. Speaker, by le;!.ve s.:W. '"'l. th ::he agree!:\e:l:: of th.e Gover:1men:: Souse Leader with •.,room i ha•;e cons-'"lcerl ! ::hin.1t I oughc ::o . this afce:-:'IOO::l say how pleased tilis House is ac che :-esult of ~ e :efarendum in Quebec yesterday. so.vJ:: <;ON . !-!E:G~?-5 : near, hear ! MR.

J~ .. '1!2SON: First o:: all.! ::hi:l.k i:: ·...as g:au.::yi:tg ::o all o:: us .?ar::icularly we~ Newfoandla:!d who are cbe ~s:: :ecen:: :oroe:-s co Confederation. ::o reaLize eha:: •..re are a pa.r:. of a country •..rhj.ch :emai~s s.::ong and •.;h.:.c h remaL,s vi:.al and cba~ ~here are ·.,ric..'lin ::he ?rovince of Que!:lec sue!'! a ve:y su!:lstar.tia! :Ulll\b.:r of people •Ji:!c ~ave ur.de ~ s~occ ~"le ~mpo~t:.an<:e of -:..~e :ede:-al.1.s~ O?t:ioo a::d in 1:-~e :ace of •;e r: g:ea:: ?ressure a.nci :.."tcee<! i:1 r.he :ace of a qreae .:leal of ac:dmonicus debate chose eo s::and up and be counted :c-r Canada.

T~s is o: course a non-par::isan issue as ::he ?rime ~un .is::er po~nted ou~ !.asc :tiq!lt a...rui -±e hon. =:te :eaCe::- of U.e ~at.ional C'Pposi -..on, :-tr . Clark ~s also sa~d ~his LS so~c~,g chac t.=~~scencs ~y <inc o= polieical p~isa:lshi.i? and which really u. in my J'..iaqemen:. one of '::he mcst decisive da1s in ~:he h:.s::ory o! Ca:tada.

Ar.d I '"'oulc cer...ai:tly exc>ec: and .,.. am sure ;hac. this ...,iL:. be d1c cas~, Y-ou: So~ou:-, t..~..a:: ~,~s House ·AOuld wish co convey ~o ~he leade r of :~ e 'No' fcrces - : use ::hat e:<pressio:t as opposed to ~!:e :eaee: o: ~ par:::=.cular ;:a::.y beca1...>se oi co urse ,people oi all political persuasions rallied 1round him and ! c!unk it is ~.1ice appropr:.ace ~'lat •.;e in chis ;orov:J.nce sr.culc jOi:: can .aciia."'s :ro::~ coast :;o coasc i:t conveyi:t; :::. ~.r. ~an our cor.~aculat::.i.on-3 .;)n c..~e :ut:come ~i c~e ~~ferenCum ~es~er~ay. :~ sayi~g tha: I c~~~~ ~~ is 4lso lmpo~r.c :or us in Newfo ~-~an d :o ra3lize,and ! am sure members on bo-::h sides Co. that.

"Nnac w'e saw ~·est erda·.J 1 NO.s noc ~h~ .and cf an 436S

:-lay 21, 1980 Tape No. 1670 AR-2 H.'l.. JA!- I!

ES CN: era but really the beginning in the sense that there was a very strong message ., I believe, of the necessity, which we on this side have often asserted, for a renewed kind of federalism,for a look at the structures of our country to determine in which manner they ought to be altered and changed and that we hope - and I am sure all melX!bers of this House hope, that as a result of what occured yesterday and the commitment of the Government of Canada to proceed as expeditiously as possible with the whole issue of constitutional revision and reform ,that this will now move abead very rapidly with results that will be beneficial not merely to the people of Quebec , those who supported the 436

... May 21, 1980 Tape 1671 EC - l MR. D. JAMIESON: 'No'option and those ~ho indeed opposed the 'No' option, that it will not only be beneficial tc them, but as A result of what occurred yesterday that we will see a situation in which all Canadians will suddenly come to reali:z:e that constitutional issues are not something of a remote nAture to be considered only once in a while but that a countzy is only as strong as its C':)nstitution and the capacity of that constitution to be responsive to the wishes and the aspirations of people wherever they happen to live in Canada. SOME HON. · MEMBERS: Hec.r, hear! MR. D.

JAMIESON: Mr. Speaker, if it is appropriate, I would move, seconded by the Government House Leader (Ur. W. Marshall) that you, Sir, on our b.Jtalf, convey to Mr. Ryan as the leader of the •·so' forces, our congratulations on the outcome of yesterday's refere.nd'Wil and our U5urances that we will work unanimously wit.'l. all those people in Canada who are anxiou.s to see our country strengthened and held together as one united land from sea to sea. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the P:::-esident of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, u the hozi. the Leader of the Opposition has indicated - he mentioned this to me before the House opened and I know that all !~~embers on this side, a.s well as all members of the House, would join and wish to be associated with t.'l.at particular motion and the sentiments so ably and well expressed by the Leader of the Opposition.

It would appear and it ..,auld seem definite that as a result of the decision last night in Quebec that this country is consideriibly strengt.'lened and the problems and lii&IlY of the divisions -while some probleJDS will still exist, obviously, the deep divisions are showing signs of being healed and this can on1:t redound to the benefit not onli' of the Mainland part of c.nada but also of the Province of Newfoundland. so we certainly wish to associate ourselves with t.'ti.s motion to Mr.

Ryan as leader of the federal force .s and at the same time, although not in the motion, I would indicate that we look forward in :he mont.'l.s and tile years to come to the renewed federalism which I think all parties earnestly desire 4366

May 21, 19 so Tape 1671 EC - 2 MR.. W. MARSHALL t ~ see that is necessary both federally ;md within all the provinces of c-ada. 'the conati tutional. chuiqes which liNSt be IIWia have to be pursued. This qoverD~~~Bnt' s position, I tl1ink, ha.& been c::learly stated by the Premier from time to time, thol.t we do require constitutional chancje.

We have lll&de positive suqqestions alonq these lines and we have positions ;aJ.onq those lines , but this is not the place or the time to qo into them except to underscore what has already been said and indicate that a renelCed federalisiJI. is earnestly d&sired for the people of Newfoundland. And &lonq those lines , when you Ulelltion Mr. Ryan, the constitutional changes which were proposed by Mr. Ryan withi.li. recent times have bellll reviewed by this government, h&ve been reviewed by 436 9

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1672 so - l MR. W. M,ARSHALL : every:body in Canada and certainly, as already has been indicated, these particular changes are, as far as we are concerned, a very good bll$is and a very good cornerstone to aim to go into the future and certainly show a framework within which, as far as we are concerned, the basis at least for a qood start on the strenqthening of Canada and the cominq toqether of the Canadian nation in a very meaninq:ful way. so, Mr.

Speaker, as I say, I have much pleasure in seeondinq the motion and associating myself with the rema%ks so ably made by the hen. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. o. Jamieson) in his motion to convey our congratulations to Mr. Ryan on a job well done. SOME HON. .liEMBERS: ::rAi:!'ar. hear. MR. SPEAJ(ER: (Simms) You have heard the motion, those in favoUX" "Aye" contra:ry "Nay", the motion is carried. STAT"'...MENTS BY MIN:tSTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Minister of Justice. MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I would like to info:rm the House on two matters with respect to law enforcement in the Province.

Hon. members wil.l recall that when I announced the appointment of Richard J. Roche as Chief of Police of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, I also informed hon. members of the intention of ASsistant Chief Austin LeDrew to retire as of May 31st of this year. Assistant Chief LeDrew has had a long distinguished career in the Constabulary and I extend to him the appreciation and qood wishes of government on his well·deserved retirement. I am pleased to announce the appointment of Mr. Edward Coady as ~puty Chief of Police to take effect June lst after the retirement of Deputy Chief LeOrew.

Th.is completes the appointment of top manaqement in the Constabulary with Chief Richard J. Roche, Deputy Chief Donald Randell and Deputy Chief Edward Coady commencing the lst of June. 437fl

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1672 SD - 2 MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Coady was born in st. John's, Newfoundland, and is 43 years of age. He is a graduate of St. Bonaventure's, also a graduate of Algonquin College in ottawa where he studied Personnel and Industrial Relations. He has completed courses in Instruction Techniques, Senior Police Administration, Aviation Security Techniques and related areas. He has had a distinguished career formally in the Royal CanaQian Mounted Police, having retired on completion of 24 years service.

Following his retirement he accepted the position of Director of Emergency Measures with the Department of Justice, a position which he has filled with distinction up to nGlw. He is married to the former Lorraine Theriault of New Brunswick, and they have four children. I feel confident that Mr. Coady will bring to his new position knowledge and expertise that will complement that of Chief Roche and Deputy Randell. on another matter, I wish to infoz:m hon. members the government's policy with respect to policing in Mount Pearl.

Prior to April l, 1980, the Local Government Act was the operative law for all incorporated municipalities in the Province, with the exception of St. John's and CO:tner Brook. Under that Act, the Local Government Act, provision was made for the employment of municipal police and the granting of powers as peace officers to them. such powers were granted to the Town of 4371

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1673 E:U -,1 MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: Mount Pearl Police Force which is comprised of a <:;hief of Police and five constdl:lles. They operated with full au~onomy with the limits of the municipality in conjunction with the RCMP. That force has the over- all responsibility for police services outside St. John's under a contract between the Federal-Provincial Governments.

Under the proclamation of the Municipalities Act on April lst of this year, all police in the Province,with the except·- ion of the RCMP and the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, who have province- wide jurisdiction,ceased to have the powers of peace officers except for the enforcement of municipal by-laws. The reason is to provide a sta."l.dard level of police service throughout the Province.

Since the town of ~unt Pearl police lost their wider powers as a result of the proclamation of the Municipalities Act, discussions were held with the Town Council of Mount Pearl and its officials and ministers and officials of the Departments of Municipal Affairs and Housing and Justice to resolve the problem. It should be noted that some of the policemen involved had up to fourteen years of service with Mount Pearl and had an adequate level of training.

Consistent with the Department of Justice's policy to expand the services of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary ·.and for the metropolitan area, it was decided that Mount Pearl should be the first step. To this end, it is intended to take over policing services in Mount Pearl not later than the beginning of the next fiscal year. Not later than that. It could be before but not later than the beginning of the next fiscal year.

I am also pleased to announce that members of the Town of Mount Pearl Police Force .. who otherwise qualify, will be absorbed 0 into the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary as soon as this can be con- veniently done. 4372

I May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1673 EL 2 MR. G. OT'I'ENHEIMER: At the same time, I wi sh to assure hen. members of this House that adequate portection is being provided the town of Mount Pearl by the RC~ ~ t.heir detachment is at Donovans, and this will continae until the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary take over the duties of policing Mount Pearl. And I have copies for the press. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hen. the member for Grand Bank. MR. L. THOMS: Mr.

Speaker, I too, and my colleagues would like to associate ourselves with the retirement of the Assistant Chief of Police, Austin LeDrew,and wish hi• well in his retire- ment and also to congratulate the new Deputy Chief, Edward Coady. Mr.Speaker, I am very happy to see that at least there has been - there is one thing that a lot of people in this Province forget and that is that the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary is exactly that, a Newfoundland Constabulary .. It is not the Royal st. John's Constabulary. And this police force, in my opinion, should be ~xtended across the Province.

Corner Brook should have the same access to this particular police force as the Town of Mount Pearl, although I am very pleased to see that the situation in Mount Pearl will be corrected by the end of this year with the policing being done by the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary - MR. liiEARY: And the same Fire Department. 4373

:-:a;• 21. 1980 Ta!'e !ro. 16 7.:. DVl - Z·1~. . ..... THOI~S: I would urge the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) to ~roceed as auickly as possible to determine w~ether or not we could, in fact, extend the Royal Newfoundland Constabu- ~ary not only just to ~ount . Pearl and to the metropolitan area of St. John's but also across the Province. I think. probably, if we could have the Royal Newfoundland Constabu- lary police in Labrador it would do a tremendous job tc create a feeling of Labrador belonging to ~ewfoundland. And I think that in itself would be worth it.

But I am extremely ~leased to see that at least ~e are getting just a ~ew miles outside the city of St. John's. And ~ooe that t~e present minister will see fit to extand the police service across this Province. The other point I would like to make, Mr. Speaker, just a very brief ~oint,is that I think the ~inister"of Justice I •.<auld urge t~e ~inister of Justice to devise some mechanism whereby appointments of this type, police assistants,deputy Chief of Policg be taken out of t~e ~ands of the De ~ artment of Justice. It does crive it nolitical overtones :!E'.. G.

OTTO:lTF.EI'!E':'t: (InaudibleJ appointments ar~ made by the Lieutenant Governor in Council bu~ I still - I reco~nize the point he is reakincr but it is ~y tl!e ~ieutenant Governor in Council. ~!~. L. TE:JllS: Yes, of course. !'.ut I •.-•auld like to se~ somethincr, ma1Ce a board or some~~i~a 3e~ UJ to make apoointments of this sort. Take it out of t~a ~alitical rBalm that it is in ricrht now. But, ~1r. S~ea:~er. I am ;laased to see t~at, at least, the ~ove is b~ina ~ad~ i~ che direction of ~avin~ the ~alice across tt1is ?rovince. Thank you. ·~'=' .• SP~? .. Y.r:'?.: {:im:ts) ~n7 furt~er state~~nt3? 4374

:::ly 21 . 1980 ;~_2!'E!\Kg' (Simms) aank. ~tR. t.. T!:O:!S' Tape ;lo . i67'1 :)h' - 2 ORAL OUESTIONS The hon. the ~embe~ !or Granc T~ank you , ~ r. Soeaker. I ~ave a question I would like to direct to t~e ~i~ister of Trans - ?Ortation and Communica c ~ons (~~ . 3rect). The minister ma·r oe familiar ~ith what is known as th e ~009 ~oac on the au rin Peninsu.:l.a . Th ere is a~out an eight ~ile st~ecch between ~ord's Cove and Lawn where there has ~een a new

section of the ~oad put in . The ~iniscer has ~eceived re~resenca - cion !rom the Lord 's Cove Commun ity :ouncil anc also !rom the Greater Lam aline ~rea Developm ent Association. ~n6 I would like the minister to indicate wh ether or not this is coinq to be com~leted an d ?av ed this yea ~? '!~. SPt .\!<tR The hon . ~inister of T ~ans - ?O ~ tation and Communications. =:!..:~.· .__:'1 ~t':.'T '. ~ ~- s~ea%er JU st in case 4375

--- May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1675 NM- 1 MR. BRETT: any other members of the House are going to come up with questions like that today, I want to say that the roads programme is now being typed and hopefully I can table it in the House tomorrow and everybody will know what money is being spent where: MR. NEARY: MR. MORGAN: MR. SPEAKER (Si=s): MR. NEARY: How come vour own members are leaving out - Leave that until tomorrow. The hen. member for LaPoile. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Mines and Energy tMr. Barry) .

We have not heard too much lately about storing oil over in the abandoned Bell Island mine, would the hon. gentleman care to give us an updating? Is it a dead issue? Is there anything happening at all in connection with the storage of crude oil over in the Bell Island mine? MR. SPEAKER: MR. BARRY: The hen. Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr.

Speaker, what appeared to be a very favourable progress on the part of Wabanex in arranging for a US oil storage programme came to a sudden halt because of a change in US energy policy, where the US Government decided it was not prepared to expend the large numbers of dollars outside the country that would be necessary at this particular time to get involved in such an oil storage programme. There are indications by the way that the US policy may change but to date the situation remains pretty much the same.

However, there is one encouraging sign and that is that we have within Canada a recognition that in the event of an emergency interruption in supply , the East Coast of Canada could ~e severely hit. And there is a committee of federal and provincial officials looking at the question of what is necessary in order to have adequate supplies on the East Coast in the event of such interruptions and this holds some promise for seeing that oil storage programme carried out but at this stage we will have to wait until this committee reports. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the han. member for LaPoile. 4376

-- --------- May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1675 NM- 2 MR. NEARY: Could the hon. minister indicate then, it looks like the Wabariex proposal is pretty well a dead issue, would the han. gentlE!lllall indicate what concessions Wabanex now have on Bell Island? Do they still have control of the waterfront and all the p=perty surrounding the waterfront? And are they still obligated to make their contribtutions to the municipality of Wabana as was called for in the original agreement? Is there still an agreement between the minister's department and Wabanex giving them the concessions on Bell Is .land? MR. SPEJ\XER (Simms): MR.

BARRY: The han. Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr. Speaker, the agreement terminated as of the end of last year, I believe, and has not yet been renewed. However, I do have officials in the department working on what arrangement might be appropriate to recognize the considerable expenditure investment by Wabanex without unduly tying up the property. And I am thinking in tez:ms of where a short-term interim understanding: 4377

May 21,1980 Tape No. 1676 AH-1 MR. BARRY: may be arrived at where government,shall we say,gives Wabanex first chance at development for a year or two years while we see whether there will, in fact,be a change in US energy policy or new developments on the Canadian scene. We think that would only be fair to recognize the fact that this company has made a significant contribution both in time and i~ dollars, in expenditures. As to whether this new arrangement will require Wabanex to make payments to the Bell Island council, it is too early to say at this stage. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Simms}: member for LaPoile.

MR. NEARY: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A final supplementary. The han. That great contribution that the han. gentleman spoke about is not very evident on Bell Island,by the way. I do not know where they spent their large sums of money the han. gentleman is talking about. But some time ago the minister - I believe it was the ministe~ made a statement about developing a deep-water port near Bell Island, between Bell Island and Kellys Island or Bell Island and Little Bell Island in connection with the offshore drilling.

Would the hon.gentleman care to elaborate on that and tell us whether or not that was a pipe dream or will it indeed become a reality? MR. SPEAKER: MR. BARRY: The han. Minister of Mines and Enerav. Mr. Speaker, it was never advocated by myself. I understand that there was some discussion publicly about the possibility or feasibility of doing this. We have a consultant commissioned or about to be comissioned to complete a survey of the infrastructure, the port facilities and so forth that might be necessary with commercial offshore oil and gas production.

We have officials within the Department of Public Works, Industrial Development and Mines and Energy, the Petroleum Directorate looking at the same thing . Bell Island is one of a number of sites that has been looked at but it is nothing but very, very preliminary rumours that the hon. member is referring to. There has been nothing of any concrete nature 4378

May 21,1980 Tape No. 1676 AH -2 MR. BARRY: proposed by myself nor am I awar-e of any pr.oposals by any other depiU't:ment of government of the nature that the member referred to. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. member for St. B=be. MR.BE;NNETT: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr .Brett) • ;Last year a committee came in from Reef ·s Barbour, Sho .al Cove_, New Ferol.le, Bartletts and Castors River. They went back very pleased and h~PPY with the receptio.n they received from the minister.

Now, yo~ have jll$t answered my colleague ~e suggesting that the anJ;Wers will be forthCOllling in a few days with req=d .to the doll= ·s to be spent in various areas. . I wo1!1ld hope, 437 9

" Mil.y 21, 19 sa Tape 1677 EC- 1 MR. T. BENNE'l"l': Mr. Speaker, that dollars will be available for this particular project these people came in requesting of the minister, and I would like to think that the minister could, at this time, confiz:m that these funds will indeed be available this upc:oming year. MR. SPE.IXER (Simms) : and co-unicatio:ns. MR. C. BRETT: Tbe hen. the Minister of Transportation Same answer as I gave to the other hen. gentleman's question, Mr. Speaker. The roads prograJI'IIIe will be tabled tomorrow. MR. E. ROBERTS 1 MR. SPEAKER: the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. E.

ROBERrS : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hen. the member for If I might. Could the minister, announcing the roads programme is going to be tabled tomorrow, explain to us the telegram which I understand his colleague from Bonavista South (Mr .J .Morgan) sent several days ago, I am told by the newspapers , to people in Newmans Cove who have been blocking the road and who were rewarded therefor with the announcement that their road would be paved this year?

Because I can say to the minister, there are eighty-seven delegations in my district ready to hit the picket lines in return for this, and that is only one constituency, there are at least forty others like it. MR. SPEAKER: and Communications. MR. C. BRE'l"l': The hon. the Minister of Transportation Mr. Speaker 1 I guess t..'1.e hon. the member for Bonavista South, being a member of cabinet, has been aware for some­ time what the roads programme is, and if he chooses to wire his district, there is not very much I can do about it.

But some members on both sides of the House, I think, through one means or another may be aware or may not be aware that some monies are available for certain parts of the district - I do not think they know how much, but you know 1 it is a - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Picket! Picket! 4380

May 21, · 1980 Tape 1677 · EC - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. G. FLJ:GHT: 'l'he hon. the member 'for Windsor - Buchans. Mr. Speaker, ltl'f question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housi.D.g (Mr. N. Windsor) • I am wonder~ ng if the minister would confixm - over the years we have had subsidiary DREE agreements negotiated, the funds of which were used to build industrial parks around the Province. 'l'he minister is aware of three or four industrial parks built throughout the various colllllUilities in the Province using DREE funds either in the form of loans or grants. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. G. FLJ:GHT: I am wondering are we negotiating that kind of an agreement this year? Is the minister contemplating seeking an agreement with Ottawa,with DREE to fund industrial parks where they may be needed or in the towns that are requesting industrial parks? MR. SPEAKER 1 and Housing. The han. the Minister of Municipal Affairs MR. N. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, I think the funding that came froa the federal qovernaent came through Canada Mortgage and Housing rather than from CREE. I have not been involved in any industrial parks that were built by CREE.

Some infrastructure may well have been put in place - arterial roads , water supply systems and so forth by CREE. I am not aware of any industrial parks per se that have been developed through CREE funding. But as it relates to Canada Mortgage 4381

May 21, 1980 Tape No.l678 EL - 1 MR. N. WINDSOR: and Housing there is no fundings; as I understand it, available from the Federal Government in the program under which that funding was made available it has been cancelled by the Federal Government as of the end, I think, of '78 or '79, I am not sure. MR. G. FLIGHT;: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) Windsor-Buchans. MR. G. FLIGHT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hen. member for Mr.

Speaker, over the years the town of Windsor has indicated to the Government that they desperately need- an industrial tax base, a commercial tax base and that the one way of providing that tax base is to develop an industrial park. And over the years, the Province, in negotiating with the town of Windsor,has indicated that one of the routes they may be able to go for funding wuld be through the Federal Government under a subsidiary DREE agreement.

So, that the question I _am asking, number one, is there any possibility of funding for an industrial park in Windsor under any kind of shared cost with the Federal Government and if not, in this fiscal year, what is the Province's position with regard to making funding available for an industrial park in the town of Windsor? MR. SPEAKER: Affairs and Housing. MR. N. WINDSOR: The hen-, the Minister of Municipal. Mr. Speaker, the Federal funding that we were hoping for was,again, as I mentioned, for infrastructure such as,in the case of Windsor, the regional supply system.

And funding has been put in place for that through the Province. The Federal Government has not been participating. So that has been done, As it relates to the developl!'.ent of the industrial park in Windsor r t"he .nain problem there, as I see it, quite frankly, is the demand and the availAbility of already serviced industrial land in Grand Falls at a price which is far less than we could 4382

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1678 EL - 2 MR. N. WINDSOR: hope to develop in Windsor at the present time. As demand increases and as we see there is a need, then obviously the feasibility of a similar project in Windsor will be much more solid and we ~uld then proceed. we are re-examining it. We are looking at it new actively to see if indeed Windsor is well. suitably located. My colleague, the Minister of Industrial Development and his people are,in fact, assessing needs fer industrial parks all over the Province. MR. G. FLIGHT : MR. SPEAKER {Simms) : for Windsor-Buchans. MR. G. FLIGHT: A final supplementary, Mr.

Speaker. A final supplementary, the member Mr. Speaker, I am amazed at the minister's answer at this point in time. He well knows that Windsor has indeed been seeking an industrial park and has justified the need and justified the marketability of the lots, every business that has come to Windsor at this point in time - the problem is no land. And every piece of available commercial land has been let in Windsor. So the question I have to ask the minister,then, is what is the Province's position?

Will there or will there not be an industrial park in Windsor or is the decision going to be based on whether or not the town of Grand Falls is in a position to make commercial land available for any potential businesses or light industry coming into central Newfoundland? You know, is the criteria whether or not Grand Falls can serve the need or is there a chance that Windsor will get an industrial park or is it strictly based on Grand Falls' ability to service the land and therefore have the industry come into Grand Falls? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Minister of Municipal Affairs. MR. N. WINDSOR: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker • ~he decision,;,on that, 11r. Speaker, will be, as I said, made on the basis of the saleability of an industrial park if and when one were to be developed. It is not too practical to invest public funds into developing an industrial park knowing 4383

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 167 8 EL - 3 MR. ~. WINDSOR: before you develop it that you ;sre not going to sell it because land is available at a cheaper rate next door or ten llll,les away, whate'\ler ·the case may be. Obvious~y, the main criteria would be one of need as established by my co .lleaque, the Minister of Industrial Development(L. Barry). If and when there is a need proven, if and when we can see that we ean produce or develop 4384

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1679 so - l MR. N. WINDSOR: an industrial pari<; that is economically feasible, that will be saleable, that we will not be sitting on. As all hon. colleagues opposite have been complaining because we have housing units all over this Province,or housing lots that have not sold for various reasons, we are not about to develop more land that we are not quite sure that we can sell. So once the need is there,once the saleability is proven then,indeed,we will proceed. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. T. LUSH: Mr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. J. Dinn) and I wonder if the minister could inform the House as to the scope, the breadth and width of the govemment's local preference policy as it applies to the offshore? Specifically, Mr. Speaker, I want the minister to inform the House if the local preference policy applies to particular job types, particular and specific job classifications or is it a broadly based comprehensive policy covering the whole range of jobs available for which, obviously, we have the skills and the expertise? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. J. DINN: Mr. Speaker, that is a very good question. sOME RON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. ~· DINN The policy, as outlined in

section 120, I believe, is that preference be given to Newfoundlanders where Newfoundlanders have the skills to do particular jobs. Now, in some instances where jobs are available and Newfoundlanders are not in a position to take those jobs because they do not have t.'1e necessary skills or expertise, the companies have co-operated with the government and have sent Newfoundlanders who have certain skills up to a point, they do not have quite all of the skills necessary, have agreed to take certain people and send them on various courses so that they can crpgrade for the next year's drilling season sort of thing.

So we are attempting to work that out with the companies. Now, when a drill rig is in here for almost a year on a year­ round basis, we are continually negotiating with those companies, 4385

May 21, 1980 'I'ape No. 1679 SD - 2 MR. J. DINN: Theze are three drill riqs here now, the two SEDCOs and the Uqland, I believe. We are continually negotiating so that NewfouncUanders can be upqraded from one position to the next higher position and so on. Some of the positions in the offshore are based on experience, you know. In ot;her words, you start off at a lower position and you worlt your way through by years of experience.

So, companies that are here on almost a year.z::ound basis, we are on a continual basis neqotiatinq with these companies to see to it that NewfouncUanders proqzess alonq the lines upward. For those drill riqs that come in heze that are here for a very short period of time, they have certain crews. They JMY be here for a one mcnth or two month period. In those cases, generally speakinq, the main crew stays with the ship. 4386

:1ay 21, 1980 Tape No. 1680 ow - 1 ~!R. J. DINN: It is very difficult from many aspects, many points of view, the safety point of view and so on,to replace all of the crew with Newfoundlanders . So what we do in those cases is take certain positions and then get agreements from • those companies to train Newfoundlanders.

In other words, if we see that we should have, for example, thirty-six jobs and that if they are here for a certain period of time that that should go up to forty because Newfound­ landers should progress upwards, up the ladder,then we will ask the company to train, say four positions , so that the y are upgraded . And that is how it progresses along the scale. So for the comoanies that are he~e for a very short period of time it is generally the lower skills or the ones that we have available.

If we have drillers, for example, the y will put drillers on,no problem at all,and that is one of the higher trained skills- In the case of the company that is here all year round , as I said, it is a matter of progression upward, up the scale. . '1R. T. LUSH: A sup~lementary , ~r . Speaker . P.~. SPEAKER (Simms): A supplementar y, the hon . member for Terra Nova. :·!"-. T. LUSH: I than k the minister fo~ hi s answer but he did not get into some of the sneci fics that I would have hoped for. But, Mr.

Speaker, my supple­ mentary question to the minister is I wonder if the minister is ~ware that the com?anies operating the offshore suooly vessels are advertising for officers for these vessels in Great Britain and other ~uro~ean countries? 4387

:·la y 21 19 so Ta!)e. No. 1680 ;)\y - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) The hon. ~in~ster of Labou~ and "!anpower. nR. J. DHTN: Mr.

Speaker, there is no case t~at I am aware o f whe~e under the regulations and ander the guid e lin es Newfound landers wh o h ave skil l s for j o b s on the o£fsho~e do not qet the jobs,specificall .,it:: ::-esoect to he supply vessels. ast year we had seve r al shios that 09erated in Can ad ia n ~aters that had Canadian flags, that had f oreign officers that o~erate~ tevond the Javis Strait area . 2ut QnCer no circumstances i~ Ne wfoundland waters,where under t he au ideli ~ es we called for Newfoundlanders to have the j o bs 1 where we had ~~wfoun~­ landers who were skilled to do the jots, did we ha~e any f orei~ners .

H:=t. T. LUSE; A final sup?lementary, ~r . S?ea!<:er. :·12. . Sl? EAKER: n :i~al suppleroenta =y, ~he ~on. member fo~ ?~ ~= a ~ova . :1R . T. Li.JSH ~ ~·Jell, :·! r. S;Jea.ker . =he tni ni.st~r is ~o~~ aware ~ecause I ~ave mad~ :he mi~ister a ware ~~ ~t chere is advereisinq for of=icers in Great Sr~tai~ - :r:> . . J . :n:! 'l, ~a m~ t~e• . ~ame one pla c~ :HL LOSE ' - and Eu~ocean count=i~s- ~~cl . t!r .

Spe;;~,ke r , we have a too-nocc!'> Fisheries Colle ? e in t:i:is P:-ovince ?roducL'lg skilled and expert oeo;;le and I sa·! ~o.·~ac us~ in this college i~ these trained p eo?le - and ~e h~ve t:ra.inees pe ople w!::o have c;racu _atec from the F ishe riea College wantinq to get ~hese jobs and additionall ~ we have caotains on ocher boats that we wane to oec co t besa j oi:s. 4388

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1681 NM - 1 MR. LUSH: My question to the minister is, why can we not have advertising done locally? Why can we not have advertising done in this Province? Otherwise,we have the skilled and expert workers of this Province being discriminated against in their own backyards. Let us give them equal opportunities for these jobs. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The han. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, we have another breakthrough in the House today. We have an han. member opposite who is now fighting for Newfoundlanders to get jobs in their own backyards. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I was not aware that this was the policy of the Opposition MR. STIRLING: That worked once. MR. DINN: - whereby we had regulations and han. members opposite were decrying those regulations, and were against them. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. DINN: MR. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: Oh, oh! Now, Mr. Speaker Order, please! - for ~~e han. members - (Inaudible).

Order, please! - for the han. members information, the fact of the matter is, that with respect to offshore supply vessels, with respect to captains, first mates; if the supply vessel is flying a French flag they have to have, under law, Canada does not protect us, under law a French captain and first officer. In ~~ose situations there is nothing we can do about it. Now, han. members would say, "Well, why do they not fly a Canadian flag?" Well, the answer to that, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that the Canadian Government charges them too much. I think it is something like - MR.

FLIGHT: What about the new Newfoundland Flag? MR. DINN: I think it is something like $600 a day to fly the Canadian Flag. And they say, "Well - MR. LUSH: I suppose they would with a flag like that. 4389

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1681 NM - 2 MR. DINN: They say, "Well, we will fly the French flag," and under those circumstances they have to hire a French captain and chief officer. So I would recommend to the hen. gentleman opposite to get in touch with his federal colleagues to see if we can do something about changing that silly and foolish requirement. SOME !iON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : unless he wishes to yield. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Oh, oh: Order, please: Order, please! The hen. member for Torngat Mountains, Yes, sure. A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

The hen. member for LaPoile a supplementary. Mr. Speaker, the hen. gentleman just made the most foolish statement I have ever heard the hen. gentleman make in my life. MR. ROBERTS: MR. NEARY: made some stupid and foolish - MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: And that is saying a great deal. - and that is saying a great deal. He has Order, please: - statements. But this hiring policy is turning out to be a great farce.

Is the hen. gentleman aware that these companies who operate the offshore supply vessels go to Canada Manpower and because the officers, the captains and the first mates, second mates and engineers,are not listed with Canada Manpower they then have to go and ask Immigration to allow these officers to come into this country, to come into the Province to work on these ships? And there is where the hen. gentleman could stop it, whether under foreign flags or not. And what is the hon. gentleman doing? I am shocked to hear L~at they are advertising in Great Britian and Europe - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 4390

--,.- May 21 , 1980 MR . NEARY : boats . SOME !iON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR . NEARY: . SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. STI!U.ING: MR. SPE}U(ER: his question I believe. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: to direct his question. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1681 NM- 3 - for mates and for officers for these Oh, oh! order, please! Why are thev not advertising - Oh, ohl Let the man ask his question. I understmd the hon. member has asked No. My final part of the question - A very long

preamble. I would ask him The final part of the question is if they are advertising in Great Britian and Europe why are they not running the same ad in the newspapers here in Newfoundland? MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAIC:EF.: MR. DINN: Because of the four per cent tax on knowledge. The hon. Minister of Labour and Maripower. Mr. Speaker, because of the four per cent tax on knowledge, I think,is the answer the Opposition House Leader (Mr. Roberts) gave to that question. If the hon , member for LaPoile LMr. Neary) is satisfied with that answer, then maybe he can debate it with the Opposition House Leader. MR.

WINDSOR: He will never pay four per cent. MR. DlNN: The fact of the matter is that the canadian Government appears not to co-operate at all with hiring Canadians in the offshore. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. DINN: of the impediments. MR. SPEAKER: Oh, oh! These ships will not fly Canadian flags because Order, please. I assume the hon. member has asked a question in order to get an answer but it is very difficult to get an answer when there is so much objection and interjection. The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. 439 1

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1681 NM- 4 MR. DINN: The hen. member for LaPoile (.Mr. Neary) obviously, Mr. Speaker, does not want the answer. MR. NEARY: Oh yes I do. MR. JAMIESON: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. member for Torngat Mountains, if he wishes to yield, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS : Keep trying Garfield. MR. JAMIESON: I just wanted to ask the hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinnl is he aware that the regulation is to avoid indeed a whole series of foreign owned bottoms flying canadian flags?

I suggest that he look into the reason for that before he starts calling it a silly policy in the context that he did. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR . SPEAKER: MR. DINN: Hear, hear: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. Mr. Speaker - Oh, oh! Order, please! Mr.

Speaker, whether the policy is silly or foolish or not, the fact of the matter is that all jobs in the offshore where we could possibly have control, we have Newfoundlanders in those jobs, where we do not have control is the captain and chief officer and I will challenge any member opposite,in the supply vessels, I will challenge - MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: Three mates came here recently from Germany. Order, please! I will challenge any member opposite in any supply vessel that is working in Newfoundland waters offshore, I will challenge an y member opposite to name one person - MR. NEARY: MR.

DINN: out to any member opposite. MR . SPEAKER: MR. NEARY MR . SPEAKER: Yes. Three Germans came over recentl y - - Mr. Speaker, and that challenge I la y The han. member for Torngat Mountains. - working with a Newfoundland company . Order, please! 4392

May 21, 1980 MR. NEARY: M~. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1681 NM - 5 With a Newfoundrand company. Order, please~ Joint (inaudible) with a Newfoundland company - Order, please~ - and a Germany company. Thank you, Your Honour. 4393

May 21, 1980 Tape 1682 EC - l MR. SPEAKER (SiiiiiiiS) : Order, please! Order, please! The hen. the member for 'l'ornqat MountaiDs. MR. G. WARBEN: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Rlu:al., Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr. J. Goudie). I. understand the student doz:mitory at North West River in Labrador will be closed down this cominq June. Could the minister advise if al.ternative accoliiiiiOdation has been provided for students colllinq in from the Labrador Coast to attend school in North West River? MR. SPEAKER: and Narthern .Development. MR. J.

GOUDIE: The hon. the Minister of Rlu:al, Aqricultur&l Mr. Speaker, the student dorm to which t.'le hon. member refers will be closing, at least as far as my department is concerned, at the end of this school year, at approximately the end of June. When I suqgest_ that it will be closinq, all I am sayinq is that there are no funds provided in the Estimates of my department for fundinq of the dorm beyond that particular date. In relation to alternative accommodations for these students, I have made no particular a=angements. MR. G. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER: Tornqat Mountains • MR. G. WARl!EN: A supplementary, Mr.

Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is, to what extent will the minister 's department assist students CODling out from different communities on the Coast of Labrador to North West River this cominq year? What assistance will be provided by the Department of Rural Development this coming year? MR. SPEAKER: and Northern Development. MR. J. GOUDIE: The hen. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural Mr. Speaker, I have not considered offering any additional assistance to students cominq from tbe Coast of Labrador. 4394

't May 21, 1980 Tape 1682 EC - 2 MR. J. GOODIE : I understood - and I: can be corrected by my colleague, the Minister of Education (Ms L. Verge) that high school is offered in coammi.ties on the Coast of Labrador at this point in time and that is why the student dorm in North West River is being closed down and they do nat have to come in to the ~unity of North West River. !'R• G. WARRJ!;N: MR. SPEAKER (SiiiiiiS): for Tarnqat Mountains. MR. G. WlUlm:N : Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary. A final supplementary, the han. the lllelllber Mr.

Speaker, my final supplementary .is, in Rigolet there is no high school and even in the han. member's awn district of Mud Lake where last year there were nine students from Mud Lake who went to school in North West River - this coming year there will be at least six or seven coming in from Mud Lake to qo to North west River. So there are no high schools in these two CCIIIIluni ties ncr in l?aradise River. I am just wondering has the minister - probably I should be asking the question of the Minister of Education. Has any consideration been given to operating a smaller dormitory?

I understand there is a smaller building that can be converted into a dormitory in North West River other than the large student dormitory that is closing down. Has the department given any consideration to operating a smaller dormitory which would not be as expensive? MR. SPEAKER: and Northem Development. MR. J. GOUDIE: 'lbe hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural Mr. Speaker, I realize that the community of Mud Lake does not have high school. I understood the member to be asking questions about the Coast of Labrador, not the interior of Labrador. I would suggest to the hon.

I!IIIIIEier that there are many other schools in the Happy Valley - Goose Bay area where these students can attend if they so desire, and the quality of education in the Happy Valley - Goose Bay area is equal to that offered at the school in North West River. My department, as I indicated in the first part of the question, has not allocated any funds under the Native People's Agreement-and that is the agreement that the han. gentleman is talking about - 4395

May 21, 1980 Tape 1682 EC - 3 MR. J. GOUDIE : to fund the dorm beyond the end of this present school year which. expires so-tillle in June month. Acccaaodating any students?- no, thare is a student Aid p:r:agrillllllll where students from native ~unities 1 if they travel to other centres to further their education, university, high school in some cases, can take advantage of a very gene:r:aus student aid p:r:agrl&llllle of which the hon. melllber is fully aware, at least he should be - he worked in the department for three or four years. But in terms of providing alternative acc01111110dation, no. MR.

SPEAXER (Simms) : Order 1 please! The tillle for Oral Questions has expired. I would like to welcome to the galleries today on behalf of all hon. 1118111bers, the Mayor of Labrador City, Mr. Carl Hiscoc:k, accompanied by several councillors from the district of Meni.hek. SOME HON. MEMBERS : liear, hear! MR. SPEAXER: Also in the g~le:ry we have with us - and I am sure hon. members would like to welcome him - a. for111er member of this hon. !louse for the district then ,of Burqeo - La.Poile, Mr. Walter Hodder, who is the father of the present melllber for Port au Port (Mr. J. Hodder) , SOME liON. MEMBERS: MR. N.

WINDSOR: MR. SPEAKER: and Housing. MR. N. WINDSOR: liea.r, hear! NOTICES OF MOTION Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The City Of St. John's Act.• 4396

May 21, 1980 MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) OR. J. COLLINS : Tape No. 1683 SD - 1 The hon. the Minister of Finance. I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend Certain Taxation Statutes~. MR. SPEAXER: MR. L. BARRY: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Aet To Amend The Electrical Power Control Aet". MR. SPEAXER: Are there any further notices? ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAXER: and Northern Development. MR. J.

GOUDIE : The hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural Mr. Speaker , I have the answers to two questions posed by the hon. Inember for LaPoile (Mr. s. Neary). The first answer I have was tabled in the House some time ago, I think before the Winter recess or last Fall, relating to the cost of maintaining livestock inspectors at North Sydney. That information was tabled before but it reappeared on the Order Paper so here is the information all over again the same as was tabled before. MR. S. NEARY: What year? MR. J. GOUDIE: Well, late 1979 was when the question was asked, ~~is is the second time.

The other question, Mr. Speaker, which was posed also by the hon. member for LaPoile, 'list of names of individUals and/or companies who received loans from the RDA and the Farm Development Loan Board and the purpose for which the loans were granted: The answer is in two parts, one dealing with the Rural Development Authority. I am not tabling the names of any individuals who received loans.

I might point out to the hon. member and to any other han. member of the House that if that information is required by any member all one has to do is approach the staff downstairs in the department, the person who is being inquired upon will be notified that an hon. member of the House is seeking information on his or her particular loan and the information can be 4397

.. May 21, 1980 MR. J. GOUDIE: MR. E. ROBERI'S: giving his consent? MR. J. GOUDIE: Tape No. 1683 SD - 2 provided within seventy-two hours. Is that conditional upon the bo=ower No, not getting consent but the bo:r:rower is notified that some hon. members - MR. E. ROBERI'S : Well, why not simply notify all of them that we would like to have all of them? MR. J. GOUDIE : down to the department but - MR. E. ROBERTS: Well, if the bon. member wants he can come Well, I am saying it in the House, I mean, why do I have to go scuttling down to a department? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. J. GOUDIE: MR. SPEAKER: MR. J.

GOUDIE : Ozd.er, please! Order, please! Because that is the way it wo:dcs right now. This is Answers to Questions. The information on the Rural Development Authority is here, Mr. Speaker. On the Farm Development Loan Board there are copies to be - I will not read out all of the answers, it will take the next hour or so which I assune is not required right now. There were some sao jobs created.That may be an interesting point there that some people may wish to pay attention to but there are copies for every hen. member of the House, Mr. Speaker, and here is the info:cnation. MR. S. NEARY: liN HON. MEMBER: MR.

SPEAKER: MR. J. GOUDIE : MR. SPElll(ER: Communications . MR. C. BRETT: How do we get the names? Hear, hear. Are there any further answers to questions? come oown to the office. The bon. the Minister of Transportation and Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to a question which appeared em the Order Paper of May 5th. The question was asked by the hen. Jl'elllber for LaPoile. The question was, "What are the monthly totals paid to EPA or reimbursed to worKers to and from Labrador since January 1, 1977 under the scheme to reduce fares for residents of Labrador?" The answer is typewritten and I will read it.

The Department of Transportation and 4398

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1683 SD - 3 MR. C. BRETT: Communications does not pay monthly reimbursements to EPA. ~NEARY: Who pays it? MR. C. BRETT: Well, wait now until I am finished. This programme applies to residents of Labrador who travel. to the Island and return by air. A resident of Labrador is a person who resides in Labrador pexmanentl.y and/or has pe:cnanent employment in Labrador. Residents of Labrador who travel for personal. reasons to the Island and return are eligible.

For those whose fares are paid by or on behalf of the Az:med Forces, government, industry, business, organizations or groups in general or persons receiving reduced fares from airlines are not eligible for payment. However, excursion, family plan, student and certain special group fares will be eligible for payment of this subsidy. so, reimbursed to residents of Labrador since 1977 are in the fiscal year 1977-78, $350,000; fiscal year 1978-79, $317,900; and the fiscal year 1979-80, $347,500 for a total of $1,015,400. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. J.

MORGAN: government portrayed Are there any further answers to questions? The hon. Minister of Fisheries. Mr. Speaker, in compl.iance with the open by this administration here, we now make available to the House 1 as a result of questions put forward by the hon. gentleman from LaPoile (Mr. s. Neary) asking that the Minister of Fisheries place upon the Table of the House the information regarding loans made by the Fisheries Loan Board - Mr. Speaker, I now table all the infoxmation regarding the names, the addresses and the purpose of the loans made by the Loan Board for the last year - all information. MR.

SPEAKER: Are there any further answers to questions? 4399

May 2~.~980 Tape No. 1684 AH-1 ORDERS OF THE DAY MR.SPEAKER: (Simms) MR • .MARSHALL: Private Member's Day. With agreement, Mr. Speaker, with agreement of the Opposition - MR. SPEAKER: MR.MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. It has been agreed that we wi~l ca~l the worker's Compensation Act which is order 42, Bill No. 46. MR. SPEAKER: for the Strait of Be~e Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Is that agreed? The hon.member Mr. Speaker, may I confirm what my learned friend has said,that we have agreed in the interest of expediting the passage of this bill.

Let me add that my understanding is that this bill wil~ receive second reading this day in the Bouse so I would simply say to a~~ hon. members that the on~y reasonable and fair way to approach this is for each side to divide it. We have approximate~y two hours until six o'c~o~k so I wou~d hope that those on both sides, the minister introducing it and those on our side responding and so :foZ:th,wou~d govern themselves accordingly because I believe there are a number of 111embers who wou4-d ~ike to say a few words and hopeful~y those of us who wish to get in it wi~ a~~ confine ourselves to relatively few words.

I think the amendments themseives are fair~y simple. It is the princip~e that we a~~ want to get involved in and we on our part, on that understanding wil~ agree to give this bill second reading by six o'c~ock. We are certainly going to support it so there is no problem there. Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Worker' ·s Compensation Act" (Bill No. 46) MR.SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. SOME BON .MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 4400 - . .,.... -------r----- ---- -

May 21,1980 Tape No. 1684 AH-2 MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, first of all,before I get into the principle of the amendment to the Workers' Compensation Act,let me thank all the han. members of this House, the Opposition included, the Opposition House Leader for getting together with our Government House Leader, for allowing us to bring in this very important amendment to the workers' Compensation Act on Private Member's Day.

Realizing the importance of Private Members' Day and the way in which we have debated many issues in this House,I think it is incumbent upon me as Minister of Labour and Manpower to pErsonally thank the Leader of the Opposition, the Opposition House Leader and all hon. members Opposite for allowing this very important amendment,the second reading of which,hopefully,.will pass today, to go through the House. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, let me also thank some of the people who, in the course of bringing this bill, or getting this bill into the House, assisted me in the ways in which they have.

I want to thank, for example, the new Chairman of the workers' :ompensation Board who, on my request last year having taken over ~hat ~ost,set about the task of investigating in the other provinces of Canada, British Columbia, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island to see how they operate and how they handle the situation and was very pleased to get his report in about November of last year, November or early December.

And, also, to thank the Newfoundland Fisherman Food and Allied Workers' Union for their meetings,and sometimes these meetings were called on short notice, for coming in and explaining their position and also putting their position on paper and making it quite clear to me in presenting their case. I would also like to thank Mr. Bill Wells, who represented the companies in this Province,who came in,also on very short notice,and who eventually set forth the companies'case.

I wculd like to thank the former minister of the Department of Labour and Manpower who initiated this good piece of legislation, the Minister of Fisheries {Mr.Morgan) who arranged some of the meetings with the Fishermen's Union 4 4 0 1

May 21,1980 Tape No. 1684 AH-3 MR. DINN: down in his office both here in the Confederation .Bui.lding and over in my department and for the way in which all people who were involved in those discussions handled themselves. Now,! also want to thank the other unions in the Province who sent in tileir concerns in various ways , in eithe ·r letter form or by sending their cards along,and also ~~e some 8,500 who preseneed their petition to t.'le ~linister of Fisheries (~tr. Morgan) showing tileir conce .rn for the fishermen in this Province. And I am glad today to have this piece of legislation before the bon.

House and hopefully . as the bon. opposition House Leader has indicated, we will get unanimous support by all members of the House so l;hat the fishermen 4402 ~·

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1685 EL - l MR. J. DINN: of this Province, all the fishermen of this Province can be protected so that their wives and children have some sort of compensation or in­ surance policy_ in the case of injury or, indeed, in the case of death. Now, Mr.

Speaker, this is a long time in coming, AS I indicated in a Ministerial Statement in this liouse several weeks ago 1 there was an ammendment to the Workers' Compen- sation Act brought in in l973,and that ammendment had the intent of covering all fishermen in the Province where there were three or more in a boat and whilst sometimes the best of intentions are put forward in legislation, not always can they be carried out in reality. And this happened to be the case with the particular ammendment in 1973, where fishermen were covered.

They had coverage under the Workers•Compensation Act but there was virtually no way to collect the assessment and thus those fishermen who were injured or maimed in accidents, accidental injury or death in the Province, some of them put in requests for comp­ ensation and received it and others of them did not because they did not know they were covered. Now, Mr.Speaker, today we hope to, as I say, pass the ammendment to Workers' Compensation so that all fishermen in the Province will be covered hy Workers' Compensation.

In the ammend- ment we are looking for the cayability of the Lieutenar.t-Governor in Council passing regulations so that the buyers of fish will be deemed to be the employer for the purpose of the assessments, ~he captains or the owner of the vessel to be the one responsible for the safety on board and the reporting of accidents, etc.

And I am sure that some hen. members, specifically those, with respect to those who are living in fishing districts, will want to have a few words to say on this but I want to say that if we can get second reading through today and if we can get this Bill passed through the liouse, in the next week or so, then,upon proclamation I hope 4403

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1685 EL - 2 MR. J. DINN: to have the regulations. 'l:he Workers' Compensation Board and lawyers in the Department of Justice are working on the regulations right now so that we can have coverage for our ~ish­ ermen for Workers' Compensation, all fishermen in the Province,universally, as soon as possible. Certainly, within the next two weeks. So.& of the main points in the ammend­ ment that we are proposing here today are that,as I said, buyers would be considered to be the employers for the purpose of paying the assess­ ments on the amount of fish purchased.

The ~uyers will not be respoDSible , as I said, for safety aboard the boat except in such cases where the boat is owned and/or under charter to the company. The captain or owner of the boat will be responsible for safety procedures and would also be responsible for re­ porting all accidents happening aboard the boat. And the buyer will remit the required assessment to the Board on a quarterly or half-vearly basis and coverage will be universal, as I said, for single fishermen or crew, for all fishermen in the Province and compulsory for all fishermen who hold a valid fishing licence. Mr.

Speaker, this is and has been a long time coming in the Province. It is an ammendment to a piece of legislation that I am particularly proud of. I am particularly proud and happy that I received the cooperation that I did in discussing with representatives of the companies and the unions. Since the announcement in the House, I have not heard of any adverse comments on what we have proposed , and I would hope that all members of the House would speak in support of this ammendment.

As the hon. the Opposition House Leader said, there are probably many members in the House who will want to speak to the ammendment on the Workers' Compensation Act and 4404

May 2l, l980 Tape l686 EC- l MR. J. DINN: I would hope, and I am sure that the members of the Opposition, that members on this side of the House who have an interest in fishing districts will have their few words to say between now and 6 :00 P.M. , that we can qet second reading throuqh and that we can expedite this very, very important amendment to the Workers ' Compensation Act. Mr. Speaker, I will listen intently to the debate.

I. will, hopefully, in closing the debate, answer any questions that hon. members opposite and on this side of the House may have, and would also hope that we can qet this passed as quickly as possible because of the importance of the amendment. MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : MR. T. LUSH: Thank you very much. Tne hon. the member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the minister that we will be supporting this legislation wholeheartedly. As a matter of fact, I. would venture to say that this is the only worthwhile piece of legislation that we have dealt with in this particular session.

It is the only useful and practical piece of legislation that we have had the pleasure to sanction on this side of the House, to support. And, Mr. Speaker, we would like to be associated, ce:r=tainly, with the passing of this particular piece of legislation. I. can assure the minister that there will be no intention on this side of the House to unnecessarily delay the passage of this particular piece of legislation, because like the minister, we are anxious for the fishermen of this Province to get the full protection that they will receive under this particular legislation. Mr.

Speaker, we are glad to be associated with it, and indeed, I suppose to a certain extent, glad to have been the cause or certainly to have helped in the cause of initiating this particular legislation. Now, we do not want to take any larqe degree of credit, Mr. Speaker, because over the weekend there was a great scramble for credit on this particular piece of legislation. The minister was on radio - the Minister of Labour and Manpower, it was a dual play on the radio stations. The Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. J. Dinn) was on I taking great pride, and so he 4405

May 21, 1980 Tape 1686 EC- 2 MR. T. LUSH: should, in having ·this bill ready for presentation in the House of Assembly. But, of course, right on llis heels he was followed by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Morqan) who wanted to talc.e credit as -u. Well, Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House we are not arudous about the credit. What we are arud.ous about is -- . -- . - . -- who is ;oinq to benefit from this piece of legislation. __ .. sOME liON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. T.

LUSH: It is not the credit, it is the beneficiaries, it is the people who are going tD benefit, But, Mr.Speaker, naturally, if there is any little bit of credit at all due to hen. members on this side of the House, we would like tD acknowledge it. And it was the member for St. Mary's - The Capes (Mr. D. Hancock), I believe, who presented a petition in this hon. House in this particular session, calling for Workers' Compensation. Now, the Minister of Fisheries did so too, but he did not do it at all in the sallll! forceful way that the member for St. Mary's - 'l'he Capes did. He did not do it the same at all. KR.

L. THOMS: He was being political. MR. T. LUSH: But I tell you, he was on the radio over the weekend though, trying tD get the credit. And, you know, it shows a difference in politicians. I do not believe that the member for St. -Mary's - 'l'he Capes went on the radio at all when he presented the petition. I do not believe he did, did he? KR. G. WARREN : Not too much • MR. T. LUSH: Well, he was called in by c.B.C., which ~~e man could not very well say no tD. loiben C.B.C. gives you a call it is only mannerly to 90.

Or the _N._i-: ·v.:_.:- aDY of them, when they call you and ask an hen. meli!ber to speak to some issue on which he waxed eloquent in the House of Assembly when he was talking and speaking up for the rights of the people, it is only right, of course, that they should extend that courtesy to C.B.C., N.T.V. or whatever media it might be. I generally do it .to extend them that courtesy sometimes, and that is only the right and proper thing to do. Mr. Speaker, this is a serious issue. We have talked in this hen. House time and time again about how this was 4406

May 21, 1980 Tape 1686 · EC - 3 MR.. T. :t.USH : an historic day beca-use of a particular piece of l.eqislation. I lla118 DCt seen a IIIDre historic piece of leqislation passed than is qoin~ to be pused here right now. This truly can be called an historic pi.ece of leqisl.a.tiDD., the only piece of le~lation, as l: llave said before , that has been ueful, worthwhile and practical to a very important group of people in this Province, the fishermen - SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. T. LtJSs:: - the people, Mr. Speaker, that make a qreat cxmtribution to our eco:DOmy.

As l: have said before, - are especially delighted - I am ayinq to fin.d aDCther IIIDre forceful eXpression - but we aze esped.ally delighted to be associated with this particular piece of leqislation and to qive it our full support, Mr. Speaker, for this very important group of people, a specific group actually, because . this is UII!Jldin~ leqislation. · Because the previous leqislation did not take in all classifications of fishe:caan. It was DCt universal. l: think generally it was the inshore 4407

May 21, 1980 Tap-e No. 1687 ow - l MR. T. LUSH: fishermen, the independent fishermen and maybe just the family fishermen, the people who are engaged in two or three in the fisheries, that it was very difficult for the legislation at that time to apply to the WorkerS' Compensation. And this is the amending legislation and as the minister pointed out it will have universal application, universal applica­ tion as it applies to fishermen. And, Mr. Speaker, that is certainly important, that is certainly a significant day for the fishermen of this Province, the smal:l,independ- ent inshore fishermen.

It is a significant day, a red letter day for these fishermen of this Province. Mr. Speaker, one wonders what misery, what human misery, what financial burdens were imposed on the fishermen of this Province as a result of the lack of this kind of legislation. And, of course, the conve~se of that is what a great day it is croing to he for them now to know that in the event of injury, and following the proper procedures 1 that these men now will be compensated when they are off work for loss of limb and all of this sort of thing. !t is a great day for the fishermen.

And 1 hopefully,the days of human misery and financial burden that were caused as a result of this lack of legislation is now remedied, is now cured. So, ~r. Speaker, naturally we do not know what form the regulations will take but we certai::1ly hooe that they are not going to be too cumber­ some, that they are going to he simnle and understood by all of the fishermen in this Province. 4408

---....- .. -· Aay 21, 1980 Tape No . 168 7 Di~ - 2 MR. T. LUSH: The administration of this bill, I would think, is going t·o be rather difficult, it is going to be rather difficult by the very nature of the legislation, by the very nature of the beast, if you will. ~ause, I suppose, this was one of the things that kept the thing from being legislated much earlier, the problems of deciding who was going to pay the premiums and who was goi.ng to qualify and all of this sort of thing.

I mentioned, I think, the last time that I was talking to this legislation,or when the minister indicated that it was going to be brought into the House, that it was sad that British Columbia was the Province that led the way in this ·and we are the Province that is normally thought of throughout Canada as the'Fishing Pro•ince'. It is too bad1 being the leaders in fishing in Canada, in North America and throughout the world,we hope,that we could not have brought in this legislation on our own. But that again, ~r. Speaker, is not important.

The fact of the matter is, that it was brought in - and again it was my suggestion, Mr. Speaker, that we follow British Columbia. The day that I brought it in, I believe it was the ~inister of Fisheries (Mr. Morganlwho said that there was no such Act in British Columbia, they did not have this. MR. STIRLING: ~!R. T. LUSH: He does not know anything.

Well, a couple of days after - no·.• t:"le :-! inister of L.abour ana :lanpower ("::::. :l inn) (l ie :let: say :.:~at - a r.ouplc ot da ,·s a:ter !:l.e came !>ack and lo a:'ld behold ic vas wocelled on t~e 3ritish Colun b ia ~ or k e~ 5' Co m?ensation ~or fis h er m ~n . 4409

:·!a:r 21, 1980 Ta\)e · ~o. 1687 ON - 3 M~L !!.'. LUSB: 'He 11, MX'. Sp'eake r, 1 mentioned that there could be some administrative difficulties and thi s is ~here we hope that the regulations will not be too stringent, t~at there will be flexibility in th2m b the reporting of accidents b eca u se, as all hen. members know with res.\)ect to Workers ' '::ompens ·ation, the reporting o£ an accident, the ti~e when you report the accident is very, very irnportant.And one wonders how we can deal with !:.his when we are talking about one fishermen or even with two.

It is 'Who do we have to report to?', you know, is it the fishermen who are fishing with you? Is t~ ere any boss? ~ormally you would re\)ort it to yo.u r boss. !n this case do you ~eport it to the buyer? So there will be some problems , some ad3inistrative difficulties. But again, British Columbia is doing it and if British Colum~ia can do it I am sure we can do it . They have not thrown away the bill. '!'he bill is wor king there and I am sure it is going to work here. sut again. there are these administrative di::iculties and we are s~re that t~e minister is aware of L~e diffi- culties.

A.nd ·.o~e hope that the regulations will not be too s:ringent, will not be too complex, will ~ot be too complicated because the regulations , r~ally , could almost be so strinqent that it would almost make it impossible for a fisher~en to quali!y . . But, t ao sure that is not the int·entio:~ of the minister. He has ;one this far no• l:~ amendinq this legislation, caking it universal and I am sur~ thac he is qoing to make sure that the requlations 4410

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1688 NM- 1 MR. LUSH: are in order or carry out the spirit of the bill and,indeed,that there be nothing in it that will make the coverage difficult to obtain. And realizing,of course,the administrative difficulties 1 I am sure that when we do the regulations that they will be done in ~ way that will sort of make it less complicated, or make it as easy as possible for the fishermen to file their claims, report their accidents or whatever. But, Mr.

Speaker, again I am not going to delay in talking to this bill and this particular legislation ~ther than to say it is a very important piece of legislation, possibly the most important piece of legislation that has come not only before this session, Mr. Speaker, but a number of sessio~. a very important piece of legislation for a very important group of workers, working in the primary sector of this Province and making a substantial contribution to our economy. Mr. Speaker, we welcome the bill and we fully support it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : MR. ANDREWS: Thank you.

Hear, hear~ Th.e hon. member for Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just a few words to support this bill. This is legislation that is certainly needed for the fishermen of Newfoundland all over the Island and I am glad to see that the natural support is coming from the other side of this hon. House.

I think it reflects what this government is doing, the continuing fight to improve conditions of fishermen and the situation for fishermen in Newfoundland as is our continuing fight to regain and preserve the Norther cod stocks along the Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador for Newfoundland fishermen, and for Newfoundland plant workers. This is a piece of legislation that is certainly very badly needed. I am very pleased to see that the government did,I will not say react, but acted as quickly as possible when the urgent need for this legislation was brought to the government's attention.

It so happens that any fishermen in Newfoundland, even before this legislation will be passed, could obtain Workman's Compensation, or Worker~' Compensation. However,there was a financial burden placed upon any individual fisherman,that 4 4 11

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1688 NM- 2 MR. ANDREWS: he would pay, I think~if the hen. minister will correct me, he would have to pay the double contribution towards such protection. In this case he may still have to pay the double compensation but that can be argued with the fish processors. Another point,! think,which I would compliment the minister on was that this legislation was brought before the House without any consultation with the fish processors involved, as I understand it.

So it is an indication that the government is quite willing to get on with the business of improving social and working conditions for workers and in this case, particularly, fishermen throughout the Island. I know the fishermen in the district of Burgee-Bay d'Espoir, particularly along the coastal area where all the fishermen are, will be quite pleased with this legislation, and once again it is a reflection of the improving social and economic conditions in Newfoundland and Labrador. MR. SPEAI<ER (Butt) : MR. NEARY: Workers' Compensation Act, I certainly support this legislation. The hen. member for LaPoile.

I rise to support the amendment to the Mr. Speaker, and in so doing would like to point out to memhers,so they will not get completely overcame and carried away at this being a great Tory reform, this is merely an amendment to the Workers• :ompensation Ac~ one of the best pieces of legislation ever brought into this Province by a Liberal Government back in 1949, shortly after Newfoundland went into Confederation. I think it was '49 or '50 the Workmen's Compensation Act was approved, it was compied after the Workmen's Compensation Act in Saskatchewan. And, Mr.

Speaker, further, so that hen. gentlemen will not get completely overcome and start taking credit for covering the fishermen of this Province under the Workers•'compensation Act, let me remind han. gentlemen that it was a Liberal Government,back in the last sixties or early seventies, that amended the Workmen's Compensation Act to include fisherman. 4 4 1 2 --

Nay 21, 1980 MR. NEARY: makes - !oJB STIRLING: MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1688 NM- 3 And all this does is .amend the act. It It makes it easier. Well,I will tell you what the problem was, I will try to explain the thing as t remember it because I happened to be in the House When - I believe, Mr. Speaker, I am not quite sure, 4413 .-

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1689 EL - l MR. S. NEARY: but I believe I was the one who piloted the 'ammendment to the Workmen's Compensation Act through the House to cover fishermen. Certainly, if it was not me it was the Premier of the day. I was acting Minister of Labour at the time and I was the one who had to deal with this particular matter. The problem that arose, Mr. Speaker, - well, let me clear that off the deck first. Let nobody be under any illusion, that this is something new. This is something old. Fishermen are already covered under the Workers' Compensation Act. Inshore fisher- men are already covered.

The minister knows that. The problem was that the premiums could not be collected. Therein lies the problem. The skipperman of, say, a longliner did not feel that he was obligated or it was his duty to collect the Workmen's Compensation contributions from his crew. The problem was that the authority had not been delegated to those people who were supposed to be responsible for collecting the premiums and that is where the situation broke down. But, do not let the Minister of Fisheries(J. Morgan) or the Minister of Manpower (J.

Dinn) get on the radio and say, 'Ob, what a major reform this is going to be and try to claim credit for it. It was the Smallwood administration that covered the fishermen of this Province. AN HON. MEMBER: No, no. MR. NEARY: Oh I ye" I ze" I yes. And I am amazed, Mr. Speaker. I am absolutely amazed that nowhere in the Woz!cers' Compensation Act is there authority to give the Board the authority to make regulations. I am amazed at that. Because all this does, all this ammendment does is give the Board the power to make regulations.

In other words, to give the Board the power to make reg- ulations to try to spell out in more detail who should be responsible for collecting the premiums. That is all it does. Now, granted that is a very important step, something that was left out of the original 4 4 1 4 :"

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1689 EL - 2 MR. S. NEARY: ammendments. Nobody at the time thought that there would be any problem in collecting the premiums but apparently there was a problem develoP' So, all this does is ~i ve the Board the right, the authority to make regulations respecting the application of provisions of

Part 1 relating to'workers apply to fishe:cnen: And provisions of

Part 1 relating to'employers apply I to commercial buyers. That is what it does, Mr.Speaker. It does not, this does not -and let me repeat that so it will sink in to the thick heads of anybody who may think that fishe.cnen are being covered in this Province for the first time, that is not so, not so. And I hope that will filter through, that nobody will go out of this House and say, 'oh, the fishermen 'Jf Newfoundland, the .· inshore fishermen are covered for the first time'because that is not so . The fishermen have been covered , I would say, for the last ten years, ten years, through good Liberal legislation.

AN BON. MEMBER: MR . L. STIRLING: MR. J. MORGAN: MR. S. ~ARY: Good Liberal leg±"slation. mat is corxect. But it did not worlt. Ah, it did not work. Mr. Speaker, I wonder how much effort was exerted on the power of the Woriters' Com- pensation Board to make it work? MR. G. WARREN: For the last seven years of this ad- ministration. MR. NEARY: Yes, that is right.

Seven years have gone by and only for the Newfoundland Fish Food and Allied workers'union right now, only for the great campaign that was put on by Richard Cashin and by the executive and by the members of the Fishermar Food And Allied Workers Union, we would not have this ammendment today. I have, down in my office, a stack of cards that I r~ceived from my own district of LaPoile where we have the greatest, the best inshore fishery in Newfoundland. The best, bar none. 4 4 1 5 :

May 21,1980 Tape No. 1690 AH-1 MR. NEARY: It is a year-round_ inshore fishery. It peaks in the Wintertime and a lot of people are not aware of that. The inshore fishery on the Southwest coast is year-round. The only time the fishermen take off is when their boats are in for their annual refit and they take a co~~l~gf __ weeks holidays so the fishermen may be ashore,say,for anywhere from a month and a half to two months and that is it, the rest of the time they are fishing. Inshore fishermen, the best in the Province.

They have been covered under this Workers' Compensation for inshore fishermen but the problem, Mr. Speaker, as I indicated,was that the skippermen did not feel it was their responsibility to collect the premium from their crew and there was no way apparently to enforce it. I suppose it could have been enforced, t'r. Speaker, but it would have been a bit of a jungle. And when the fishermen of this Province were covered under the Workmen's Compensation Act it was virtually impossible to make the arrangements that you =an make today because the fishery has chanqed so drastically. MR. TULK: It is better today. MR.

NEARY: No, it is more organized because of the Fishermen's Union and not government policy. This government had as much to do with the improvements in the fishery in this Province as the man in the moon. They had nothing to do with it. It grew and developed and prospered despite ~he policy of this government. The hon. gentleman sits over there,real true blue blood Tory,through his innuendo trying to claim a little credit for the development of the fishery in this Province.

I remember once when I was in Cabinet every fish plant in Newfoundland was bankrupt and the Liberal government had to bail out every fish plant in Newfoundland, every one of them, bar none, and apart from the fish plant in St. Lawrence and the one that was built down in Arn;ld's Cove, every fish plant in this Province apart from these two - I do not think there are any others. MR. HOLLETT: ------ The St. Lawrence one is due to the Federal government. 4 4 1 6

May 21,1980 Tape No. 1690. AH-2 MR. NEARY: I will mention that. But every one of them was built under a Liberal administration. And the one in St. Lawrence,my hen. friend reminds me,was built partly out of funds from the Government of Canada, the Liberal government up there in Ottawa. And Arnold's Cove, I presume, had DREE grants too, so part of the cost of construction,of building that plant came from the Government of Canada.

Every other plant in this Province was built under a Liberal government. ~then came the 200 mile limit, another great Liberal concept which my han. friend shared in . ~he present Leader of the Qpposition played a major role - I believe signed the agreement. Can you imagine, Mr. Speaker, I never thought I would ever see the day when I would sit in this House side by side, almost seating mates with the gentleman who signed the declaration of the 200 mile limit. Take that! Is he a Tory? Is he an NDP? MR. MORGAN: He is a Newfoundlander. -------MR. NEARY: A Newfoundlander, but he is not a Liberal.

He is a Newfoundlander. The han. gentleman will not even grudgingly admit that the han. gentleman is in any way shape or form associated with the Liberal party either of canada or of Newfoundland, that would be expecting too much, no more than the Minister of Manpower (Mr.Dinn) will admit that the fishermen of this Province are already covered under Workers' ComQensation. AN HON. MEMBER: It is not true. MR. NEARY: It is true,

an act brought in this House by a Liberal Administration. AN HON. MEMBER: ------- (Inaudible) date exactly? ~NEARY: 1968, the deep sea fishermen, I believe , and 1969 or 1970 the inshore fishermen. So it was the Liberal Party in this Province that pioneered this kind of legislation. And what we are seeing now is an amendment to give the board the authority to make regulations. That is all we are doing here, ~x . Speaker. Read the Act, take it and read it. I have a few minutes 1if I can find my ~lasses mavbe I will read it. -- ~JAM~ Try mine. 4 41 7

!A.ay 21, 1980 MR. NEARY: can only find them. Tape No. 1690 IB-3 I have my own here somewhere if I Mr. Speaker, let us see what it says here, 4 41 8

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1691 SD - 1 MR. S. NEARY: see what the explanatory note says, see what kind of a major reform we are talking about. "The amendment would provide for the power to make regulations respecting the application of provisions of

Part I relating to wo:dters apply to fishermen," that does not make any sense, "Part I relating to wo:dters apply for fishermen", that seems to be a typographical error there, "and provisions of

Part I relating to employers apply to a~mmercial buyers or other co11111ercial recipients of fish or to any person engaged within the Province of transmitting payments to fishermen." So, Mr. Speaker, there is no mention here in the explanatory notes or in the bill itself that we are now introducing a piece of legislation to cover the inshore fishernen. What we are doing is giving the Board the authority to make regulations so that they can collect the premium and that is what that bill is all about.

It is a bill to try to work out some kind of a formula, some kind of a procedure whereby it will be a~mpulsory for either the 3kippernm , the buyers or the employers to a~llect the premium. You can call this bill, if you like, a bill to make it compulsory for somebody to collect premiums for the Workers' Compensation Board. MR. J. DINN: Buyers. MR. S. NEARY: Buyers , in this case , buyers. You a~uld not do that ten years but you can do it today. But I am still amazed that there is no authority in the Act to give the Board the right to make regulations. l!laybe there is, I have not had time to check it. MR. J.

DINN: There is authority. MR. S. NEARY: 'lhere is authority, Well, why now then are we asking for authority to make regulations if the authority - MR. J. DINN: They are allowed to make regulations but we want to specify what regulations they can make. MR. S . NEARY: So, we are broadening the terms of reference as far as making regulations are concerned. So, Mr. Speaker, that is very good but if the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. !".organ) wants to 1:ake to the air waves, and the lion. Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. J. Dinn) wants to take to the air waves and accuse the Opposition of 4 4 1 9 ::-

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1691 SD - 2 MR. S. NE.l\RY: delaying the process -of this bill because we wanted to debate a flag, well, let me remind hon. gentlemen, and I should not have to do it1 that it is the government that calls the builiness in this House and if the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Morgan) and the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. J. Dinn) want to behave like hypocrites - Your Honour is going through the boo•, maybe I should withdraw that because hypocrites is unparliamentary. SOME BON. MEMBERS : MR. S. NEARY: MR. D. JAMIESON: he is re.ading yoar pictures. MR. S. NEARY: Oh, oh.

But if they want to try to deceive - Just now he was smiling. There, - the people of this Province, it is their own crowd they should be criticizing, We spent two and a half weeks in this House debating a foolish flag when we should have been debating matters of urgent public importance. MR. G. WARREN: MR. S • NE.l\RY : MR. G. WARREN: MR. S • NEARY : A waste of taxpayers 1 money. And whose fault was it? Was it our fault? The government 1 S fault.

The government calls the order of business, why even a Kindergarten student knows that and yet the Minister of Fisheries and the Minister of Labour and Manpower try to deceive the public by saying we should pass the Worlters 1 Compensation J'.ct and here we are wasting our time on a flag. • All- HON~ MEMBER: We di.d IlCl-t. MR. S • NE.l\RY: Well, who is wasting the time of the House, and the time of the people of this Province? The hon. gentleman says "We did not •. Who called the orders, who forced the flag debate - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. MR. S. NEARY: - Oh, Mr.

Speaker, the hen. gentleman is saying you bring in a piece of legislation and it is not to be debated, you just rubber stamp it and let it go through, especially a matter like a flag where 99 per cent of Newfoundlanders hate and despise it and will never fly it. And so we just have to forget that.we do not debate it. It is the government, Mr. Speaker, that calls the order of business. 4420 .-

May 211 1980 MR. G. WA!UlEN: MR. S. NEARY: Tape No. 1691 They r-d the rag dOwn our th%'0ats. And here we are today, the Opposition SD - 3 re&l-izinq the i-.?Ortance of th:i,s particular 211118Ddalent so that the hon. <JB!ltl-- can get on with the jd;l - not the bon. gentleman but the WOz:kers ' compensation Board, · because 1 Mr. Speaker 1 let DIS also remind han. mllilers 1which I should not haw to do again, that the woz:kers' Colllpen.sation Board does not come under the .Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. J. Dinn) 1 the WozXers' ~nsation 4421 :-

May 21, 1980 Tape 1692 EC - l MR. S • NEARX : Board does not come under the Minister of Fisheries , the Workers 1 Compensation Board does DOt come under the cabinet, the Workers 1 Colllp8DII&tion Board is an agency of this House. The Workers' Colllpenaation Board is established under

an act of the Leqislature of this Province, and the Minister of Labour and Manpower only reports to the B.ousa for the Workers' Compensation Board - he only does wha.t he is told by the Workers' Compensation Board. The Workers' Compensation Board could tell the Minister of Manpower and Labour to qo jump in the lake if they wanted to. Mr. Speaker, I did lll:)re to further the interests of the Workers' Compensation Board than the hon. gentleman could ever dream of, in~Udiug piloting - or co-piloting; the pilot was the Premier of the day - MR. F. STAGGs MR. S.

NEARY: Who was the pilot? - and I was the co-pilot - who saw to it that the fishermen of this Province were covered under the Workmen's Compensation Act. And what this bill is doing - and I hate to have to be repeating myself, Mr • Speaker, but that is the only way you CAn get the message through. I hope the word will go out that the fishermen have been covered for ten years. Mr. Speaker, find me one paragraph in this bill that covers fishermen under the Worke%9 1 Compensation Act.

What it does , anybody who can read - what it does is give the board the authority to mai;e requlations,to broaden the terms of reference of the Worker's Compensation Board. As I said before, it was virtually impossible to collect the premiums even though, Mr. Speaker - let me point this out too, something that the hon. the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Morgan) may not realize - that even though a crewman on a longliner was not paying his premium, he could still collect Workmen's Compensation. MR. J. MO'RGAN : 1973. MR. S. NEARY: Right on! He could still collect his WbrX..O's Compensation.

I remember a fisherman in Margaree who lost his arm practically right from ~~e shoulder, and this is what brought it home forcibly to me. He lost his arm practically rigb.t up to the shoulder 4422 -

,. May 21, 1980 Tape 1692 EC - 2 MR. S. NEARY: and then suddenly he realized, and the skipper and the crew realized, that they were not paying Workmen's Compensation premiums. 'l'hey knew they should have been paying them, but they were not paying them. But nevertheless , as I found out during my investigation, this crew member was still covered under the Workmen's Compensation Act. I lost track of it after, but I presume that he did get paid Worlcmen 1 s Compensation for his injury. So, Mr. Speaker, this is very good, as far as it goes.

I. do not know how long it is going to take to draw up the regulations, I hope it will not be too long. I hope the Workers 1 Compensation Board will proceed with all haste to get the regulations drafted and get them approved. We will never know. We will not get the regulations in this House. Hold on, now. I am not so sure of that either. I bel.ieve we will get the regulations in this House, because the Workers ' c.ompensation Board does not answer to any minister or to the government, they answer to this House.

I would say that this amendment came about not through the initiative of this government, but through the initiative of the Worke:r;s' Compensation Board. So I would think that eventually we will. get the requl.ations in this House, because I believe the Worke:tS 1 Compensation Board under the act of this Legislature are compel.l.ed to table amendments to regulations and new requl.ations in their annual report. I look forward to seeing the new regulations making it compulsory for buyers to deduct the premiums, to assess the fishermen when they sel.l. their fish, which is a good way to do it.

It is probably the onl.y way you can do it, that the buyers will. be the ones who will. be responsible for deducting the Worke:r:s 1 Compensation premium and forwarding it to the Worke:tS' Compensation Board. 'l'hat wil.l. be a nice, tidy way to do it. MR. L. THOMS: It was B.c., was it not (L~audible). MR. S • NEARY : 'l'ha.t is right. It is not original, it is lifted out of the B.c. legisl.ation. But it is a nice, tidy way to do it. It could not have been done wh~~ the 4423 ::-

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1693 GH-1 MR. NEARY: fishermen were first covered under the Act, but it can be done now. So, Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see that this govern­ ment is building on the foundation that was provided by the Liberal administration in this Province, by the Liberal party of this Province. They are building on the foundation, and that is all they have been doing for seven years.

They have not come up with one original idea, not in seven years, in the last eight years, no new industries, no new reforms, a few bits and pieces of legislation dealing with the Status of Women to satisfy the old women's libber from Corner Brook, that will cause more trouble and more heartaches and more headaches than anything else we have ever seen in this House, and their great masterpiece, the Magna Carta, so the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing (Mr. Windsor) led us to believe, governing the municipalities in this Province, which is really forcing the property tax on the people of this Province.

But, Mr. Speaker, not one new idea, not an original idea, not a new industry, no~~ing, not even this bill. They can only claim in this bill that they are building on the foundation that they inherited from the Liberal administration. That is all they can claim, and the han. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) cannot wait now to spring to his feet to try to claim a little credit, to try to upstage the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) when, in actual fact, he knows that this is merely expanding and building on the foundation that has already been provided. That is what it is.

You see the trouble in this House, Mr. Speaker, you have new members coming and going but we old guys who have been here for eighteen years, our memories are too good, and when they get up and try to fool us, when they get up with a little bit of political trickery and manoeuvering, it is a terrj.ble thing. The biggest blow to their ego, then, is that some member who has been here for the last eight or ten years has too good a memory, too good a memory. The Minister of Labour and Manpower will not make his mark in history through this amendment. The han. gentleman has to come up with something original.

Now, it is good, I am not complaining about it - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). 4424

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1693 GH-2 MR. NEARY: - I am not complaining_about it. The hon. gentleman may try to get the honour and glory, he may try to steal it away from poor old 'Joey' and his administration, but they will not be able to do it because I got a list the other night. I was provided with a list of 360-odd major accomplishments of the ~mallwood administration, 360-odd major accomplishments, and right in the middle of them all- the 360-odd, would you believe it -was Workmen's Compensation for fishermen.

Here they are now, and I hope my hen. friend will not go out tomorrow morning and say, "Fishermen now, at long last, are covered under the Workers' Compensation Act", because that would not be right. That would be misleading and false. MR. MORGAN: They cannot hear you in the galleries. MR. NEARY: No, I am speaking to the gallery. My .. hen. - MR. MORGAN: Speak to the Chair. MR. NEARY: - my hen. friend knows what I am saying is true.

In the major accomplishments of the Smallwood administration, which can be verified by just checking the public record, was the Workmen's Compensation Act and the covering of the inshore fishermen under that Act, two of the major accomplishments of the Smallwood administration. And so, Mr. Speaker, maybe before this day is over we can pass this amendment.

It looks like a minor amendment but, in actual fact, it has great repercussions, because it will give the Workers' Compensation Board,now,the right to make regulations to compel and force the buyers to collect the premium and pay it over to the Workers' Compensation Board, and that is what the bill is all about. So, I hope nobody in this House, either outside or inside the House,is under any illusion that we are covering the fishermen for the first time in this Province. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR. NEARY: No, that is right, and if I have to get up and repeat it over and over again - you know, Mr.

Speaker, I said before in this House that if I did not have to look at the clock 4425 ;"

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1693 GH-3 MR. NEARY: and look at the calendar, I would swear that I was back in the mid sixties. I would swear I was back in 1968 or 1969, 4426

!<lay 2:b, 1980 Tape No. 1694 IB-1 MR. NEARY: because everything that has been going on in this House in the last several months reminds me - I have not heard anything new. I remember when the great debate took place on the inshore fishermen being covered under Workmen's Compensation, the great debate if hon. gentlemen want to go and check Hansard, hinge,d __ ~round the difficulties in collecting the Q~~um. And so you would swear you were back in 1968 or 1969 again. DR. COLLINS: You should try collecting retail sales tax. MR. NEARY: Oh, I should try collecting retail sales tax.

Well,we will deal with that on the Public Accounts Committee. We will deal with that in due course. If the han. gentleman wants to ignore his buddies and his friends who run the bistros and the cabarets and the night clubs and the restaurants of this Province and go after the poor little fellow who runs a bull's-eye shop on the cor~er, if that is his priority then it is no wonder he cannot collect the sales tax. Most of the outstanding ;ales taxes in this Province are owed by the kind of people I just mentioned, the untouchables. So, Mr. Speaker, I am going to support the bill.

I hope before the day is over we can pass it and the Workers' Sompensation Board can get on with the job they were given ten years ago and that is to include the fishermen of this Province-well 1 they are included but to collect the premiums so that they can continue to give them coverage under the Workers' Compensation Act. MR. SPEAKER (BAIRD) : The han. Minister of Fisheries. SOME HON. MEMBERS : - Hear, hear! ----MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, I have to say that before I get involved in the important part of this debate and the changes to the Workez::s' Compensation legislation that the last speaker who sat down really has my admiration in the way he can take things and make them political and twist things around. He is becoming a bit of a master politician. I think he has an excellent chance of becoming the Leader of the Liberal Party. I really do. I say it sincerely. I :- 4427

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1694 IB-2 MR. MORGAN: think he has an excellent chance. Depending on what support he gets from the caucus over there, depending on what certain members outside the caucus are going to do,I think he has an excellent chance of becoming the Liberal Leader and I think he will make a good leader in the House.

Of course he will never be able to replace the man who is now stepping aside because I think that the dignity of this House has been improved substantially, the decorum of the House improved substantially under the present leader of the Liberal Party and I would say sincerely I hate to see him go but that is his own decision. He is leaving us and he is going to quit that position. But the last speaker had to stand on a non-partisan issue - and this is an non-partisan issue, I do not care who gets credit for this legislation, nobody cares who gets credit for the legislation.

Surely the fishermen are not going to say, "Jim Morgan should get credit", he was only there for the last three or four months as Minister of Fisheries. But to have the gall to stand up in the House and try to get the ear of the media,to listen to the comments that this legislation is only to build on the legislation brought ~n by the Liberal Government, piloted by the then Premier of the Province, co-piloted by the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) in bringing in coverage with Workmen's Compensation for fishermen, Mr.

Speaker, it is really laughable-Because if the fishermen were satisfied with the steps taken by the previous administration, previous, previous administration, why would they be coming into the members of the House of Assembly with petition after petition; Why -vrould they brinq into the Minister of Fisheries of the day a petition with 8,500 names, saying, "Mr. Minister, can you help us?

Can you help us get some form of compensation to cover disability?" Why would they be doing that today if there was no problem with the legislation, the so called legislation brought in in 1968 1 brought in by the then Premier of the day, going to cover fishermen? I would say, Mr. Speaker, and all due respect to the then Premier of the day,that if that is an example of the 4428 .-

Mav 21. 1980 Tape No. 1694 IB-3 MR. ·MORGAN: way he ran government that it is a poor example because that legislation <iid not work and it could not work. It could not work then and it could not work now - what? - ten years after, eleven years after. It could not work then nor now. And the question is, why were the changes not made? Now, I have got, as mv colleague, the Minister of Manpower (Mr. Dinn) said today a:s well, the union peopl,e, not Mr. Cashin as much as the union membership. 4429

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1695 GH-1 MR. MORGAN: The union membership ~d the different committee chairmen around the Province did put lots of work in this proposal to government. They put lots of work, Mr. Speaker, there was no pressure. In fact, I sat down for at least five different periods, different meetings, over a period of two months or three months with the fishermen's union.

I sat down for the first time two weeks after becoming minister, and the main topic was, "Will you help us get Workers' Compensation coverage?", because now we have petitions circulated around the Province to get names of fishermen to put forward to government for changes to be made. Mr. Speaker, who gets credit for it is not the issue. The most important thing is to have some form of disability benefit for fishermen who are finally, for the first time in the history of our Province, coming into their own. You know, it made me feel good a little while ago when I was down on the Northeast Coast.

I was invited to go down to attend a fishermen's ball, a fishermen's ball in Musgrave Harbour, and I walked into that ball that night and there were all the ladies all dressed up and the men there were, naturally, all dressed up. When I pulled in that parking lot I noticed that most of the vehicles were brand new vehicles, all owned by fishermen, what a delicious spread there. They were proud to have a fishermen's ball.

I will tell you in 1968 they were not proud to have a fishermen's ball, and back in the mid sixties they were not proud to have a fishermen's ball because the word then was,'my son, if your father is a fishermen get out of the fishing boat, find something else, it is bad news, do not get involved with the fishery: It was bad news. I guess it was not really the blame of any government, it was then the attitude. The whole attitude has changed, and fishermen deserve to have the benefits that we are talking about now in this legislation. But the member for Lapoile (Mr.

Neary), despite his twisting of the issue, he is incorrect . He is incorrect, because the situation is that fishermen were not cover~d. You are not covered on an insurance premium or an insurance policy unless you pay the premium, and the way the legislation was, up until now and this change will overcome that problem, 443(1 .-

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1695 . GH-2 MR. MORGAN: that if a fisherman paid individually his premiums,he would be covered, but the fishermen were not doing that. Can you imagine the chaotic situation you would have in trying to have every individual fishermen around the Province,who is fishing for a living, trying to make their payments on premiums to Workmen's Compensation Board? So that it could not work, it could not work, so the changes had to be made and the changes are made now. The regulations which will be put in place will enable the - as mentioned by my colleague, the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr.

Dinn) - will enable the buyers of fish to be classified as the employers of the · fishermen, and they will not only be collecting, as the member for Lapoile (Mr. Neary), who just sat down, said. They will be more than collecting, they will be paying. The fishermen will not be paying the premiums, so the member who last spoke did not understand the issue. He very seldom does. He stands in the House and he rants and roars for days. I sat and listened in the flag debate.

I did not say too much on the flag, but I listened to the ranting and roaring and ranting and ro~ing over and over from members who say nothing, say nothing, and today he stood in the House not knowing what he was talking about, ranted and roared about what Mr. Smallwood did for the fishery, ranted and roared that this government does nothing for the fishery, we do nothing in the Province, we are a do nothing government, nothing is being done, there is no assistance to the fishermen in the harvesting, no assisting in processing, nothing to do with marketing, nothing like that .

The fact is. in 1966 , I remember the budget for fisheries- was what? '- $3.5 million. The total budget for the fisheries of our Province was $3.5 million. If you want to be partisan, that is where the priorities were back then in a then Liberal government, little or no priority for the fishery. But the situation is today that, as a result of the 200-mile limit-and again I have to give marks to the man I regret to see go from this House of Assembly. The man, he had a big effect on the whole negotiations.

He was then the Minister of External Affairs, but he was pushed a little, he was prodded a little, he was pressured a little by members of Parliament from this Province who were then Tor £ members, all of them, except the man who is now Leader of the Opposition. He was pushed by them, pushed 4431 !. .-

May 2~, 1980 Tape No. 1695 GB-3 MR. MORGAN: by New£ound~anders her~, but he was i.~volved and I give him =edit for the involvement that he took

part in, the invo~vement of arranging to have a final agreelllellt o~ a 2DO-mi1e l,imit. Maybe he will go down in history as being the Minister of Exte~al Affairs of the day at the time who arranged to si~ that agreement. As a result of that, we are now seeing a COIJIP1ete change of :!;ace of the fisheries in our Province, 4432

~!ay 21, 1980 Tape No. 1696 MB - 1 HR. J. MORGAN: a change of face with regard to a better livelihood and a change of face with a better attitude, a different attitude. The whole att itude toward the fisheries is that it is one of importance not one of the past, one of poverty. It used to be in rural areas of the Province especially in the early sixties on the North- east Coast. And it is only right that the fishermen should have the benefits that fish plant workers have, that a factory worker has, that someone Yorking with a company in construction has,it is only right.

And all we are doinq here is bringing in legislation, no matter who gets credit for it, not important at all, legislation which should have been brought in years ago, years ago! Unfortunately,the fishermen , many of them, have had some bad accidents and have not been covered because they were not payinq their premiums. This legislation will make sure that all fishermen , all fishermen. will be covered for Wor kers' Compensation and·of course, the key factor being that the companies involved will be paying , not only collecting, not collectina because the y are going to be pa ying, They will be pa yina.

There is no collecting as mentioned by the hen. member for LaPoil<= ('·ir. Neary), they are going to be payinq the oremiums on be half of the fis hermen. :1R . S. c·TF. A RY : And collect ing from the fis her men. :•!R. J. 1~0!?.GAN: ~To 1 No - It will be - '•Ir. O'oealcer . -- it was in what was brought in in 19~8 by the then Premier, forcing the fishermen to ~ay, forcing them to nay. '-1? .. S. ')!E: l\ RY: (inaudible) co!" .oetition. ~!P.. SPE.l\KF.:l.: (Baird) 0rder . olP.ase . ~1R. J. :-~O!tSF-~ 1: They were then beina forced to oay the premium. And it could never work.

The =ishermcr. could not afford it in many cases, at that time, in 1967 and 1968. .. 4433

May 21 , 1980 Tape No. 1696 MB - 2 .liR. J • .M.ORGAN: Things have improved su.bstantia .lly since than, tl:l.ank God. So it could not work. It would have been chaotic to have individual ·fishermen making pay- ments for their premiums for the benefit coverage. so, Hr. Speaker, I am pleased to play a small role in this as t1i.nister of Fisheries.

Agai.n, I give credit to the Fisher­ men 's Union who got things organized, who made sure we understood what they wanted done on behalf of the fishermen, who sat down with my colleague and myself on at least four or five differen~ occasions, the Fishermen's Union, the Bus iness 'Agents' people of the Fishermen's Union, I did not hold one meeting with the president, by the way, on that matter, I never heard from him on that matter. I have to say it sincerely, The members of the Fishermen's Union did P?sh the matter forward but not Mr. Cashin. MR. D. HOLLETT: The first mini~ter is on hi• feet. ;.;~ .

J . ~IORGJ\!l: Well, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentl eman f=o m down in th e ! i s ~ ino dis tr ict of the 3ur in Penins ul a . i f he has ai ms and obje ct ives of becomi nq the leader of th e par ty he is going to have to talk to ::r. Cashi n , I woul d say . ne will have to talk to ~ r. e as hi~ because he has substant i al su pp or t arou nd the Provi nc e. That is the opinion . And any as pir ing leader of the Libe ral Part y, an y as ?i r i n ~ lea de r on the o t ~ e r side of t~ e House shou ld kee p on the oood side of ~ r . Ca s ~in , th at is my view . M R.

S- NEARY: ·e asked ~i c hard Cashin to run. ,.,i ll not run . We are trying to get ~i~ to run . :1?. . S? EAK:S!'.: (3airc ) Order , l?l ease . 443 4 He ::-

Hay 21, 1980 Tape !<o. 1696 MB - 3 MR. S. NEARY: I guarantee you· you would get some ~right with Richa~d Cashin around here. t<iR. J. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, I would say that the Fishermen's Union, people like Bill Short I can think of 1for example - ~iR. C. BRETT: The same kind of fright that Don Jamieson gave you. 1·1R . J. MORGAN: - and members o:f the Executive Board, I have to give them - :1r. Speaker MR . S:!?!':AXE~ (Baird) !·\R. C . .l!RET'!': steve. 11R . SPEA:!<ER: !IR. J. :~ORGAN: of the Chair. ~R. SPE.l\K;ER.: Order , ;?lease! I will get the friqbt ~omorrow Order, please! ~ r.

Speaker, could I have ~he ~rotection Order, please! The m-ember has 1:.he right to be heard in silence. M;R. J. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, ! think it only appropriate of me to give full maxks to the members of ~he Fishermen 's Union,the bus~ness agents 1n particular, fo: puttinq forward t.!'leir problem on behalf of the !'ishe rmen to the ~i n ister, in this case, of Labour, my colleague an d myself and then ,of course, bringing forward a peti~ion from the fishermen. ~nd now that the legislation , ho~efully , will qet passed, the legislation required , we can get the benefits to the fishe rmen in place as soon as possihle .

I do not know i:,my collea gue can com~ent later on when he cl:se s the debate,whether or net~~ can get it done this yea r. The fis r.i ng season has startP.a ~ow in most ,;.laces on the ;.Jo rt!least: Co:tst and , of course , i ~ is on · qoin q on the Southwest Coast and the South Coast , 3u t tc get it in olace fo r the no rt heast Coast may be a bit difficult for thi s yea r. bu t at lease fH e ::~.re coin o :or ~·Jard :::-~~ ~e:-e 4435

:t a y 21, 1980 'ra_pe ~T o. 169 6 ;i.B - 4 M~. J. MORGAN: to qet it in place as soon as possible. And I would say it is good news for all of the fishermen in the Province, and ±t is of second importance as to who takes credit, the previous administration for having some kind of a founding legislation as mentioned bY the last speaker on the opposition, this administration for bringing in the changes now to make sure it works. Which minister gets the credit does not matter. Whether it is union, whether it is the fishermen, the Fish Trades, it does not matter. Mr. Speaker, it does not matter at all.

The fact is we are bringing in legislation to help the fishermen and to make stire they take their place in our ' society with regar• to ~eing protected from injurie~ in carrying out 4436 ::

May 21. 1980 Tape No. 1697 RA - l MR. J. MORGAN: and prosecuting an industry which is so important to our Province. so, Mr. Speaker, I will close my COI!Dilents by saying that I do not think today in our Province we should ever, ever ;md I mean that sincerely -some people may doubt my sincerity because I am a bit of a poliEically biased politician. I am known to be quite political and I have played that role in the past but I will say sincerely I think the fishery politics with. SOME HON. MEMBER: MR. J. MORGAN: today is too important for any individual to play Hear, hear !

It it too importan~. 'l.here are too many problems and I said so recently down at the Marystown Fisheries COnference and the people who were there probably heard what I had to say in that regard. There are too many problems today. There are too problems to have the fishermen fighting the Fish Trades or the union fighting the companies. There are too many problems to have governmentsfighting governments.

If you disagree you have to agree to disagree if you cannot resolve the problem.aut you have to work together on problems you do agree exist, on problems that you agree on,all in this case 1 all concerned • When a problem is recognized and defined it is important that we all work together. When I say we,the government here 1 the opposition members. I have been working in close co-ordination with my counterpart, in this case the spokesman for fisheries in the opposition 1 I think he can say that, he can verify that.

I have been working in consultation with the Fisherman's Union, nobody can deny that and I mean the Fisherman's Union, not necessarily the head of the union at ~~~eetings but the Fisherman's Union. I have been working in consultation with the Fish T~ades Association, regular meetings. !he member­ ship of that association represents all the companies processing in the Province, the major companies. I have held regular meetings with the Independent ~rocessers Association 1 the independent groups around the Province.

I sat down yesterday evening for about three hours in one of the hotels ~here with the Shipbuilders Association of Newfoundland and Labrador, all over the Province they came from. I sat down this afternoon 4437 :.. :-

, ... May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1697 RA - 2 MR. J. MORGAN: fo~ a further two hours before the House opened with the Labrador shr~ ·-company which consisted of approximately 500 fishermen who formed a company called The Labrador shrimp Company part of the Fisherldn 's Union, sitting down and thrashing out problems in Labrador and looking at possible solutions.

And that is the only way I can see the problems being resolved in fishery.And the problem of getting a benefit for them a disability benefit for fishermen is only one part,one small part of the many problems that exist and are faced by fishermen,faced by companies doing processing, faced by ccmpanies doing marketing and faced by governments in managing the resource, managing the industry and dealing head-on with the problems that exist.

And people sometimes say, I heard the comments made even in the flag debate, that the Minister of Fisheries is in confrontation with the minister in Ottawa, the Minister of Fisheries is in confrontation with his counterpart in Nova Scotia. We may be in confrontation 1 we may have disagreements on one issue, one issue but nobody ever ~~ntions, nobody,including the media, mentions how many more other issues we agree upon. We have recognize and define the problem and we sit down together. Mr. LeBlanc , down in Marystown 1 said he recoiJilized the problem of licencing of fisherman.

He said,also he was going to work with the Newfoundland Minister, the Newfoundland Government to resolve the problems of licencing of fishermen in the harvesting sector. That was not carried by the media 0 If it was carried I never betrd it , I never saw it. So there are 111any problems that we recognize exist and we are working together and I think it is important we work together. And this case here 1it is 1 ,I think, an indication pf government working with union. We do not always agree with the unions position as recently indicated by me on overside sales in Labrador.

We do not always agree but at least we agree upon one thing and I want to keep it that way while I a111 Minister of Fisheries, we agree to work together.We may dis­ agree at one meeting but will come back at the next one and thrash out 4438

May 21, 1980 Tape No. 1&9 7 RA -3 MR. J. MORGAN: other p.:rob .lems • It will never come to a point where I will not be sitting down and talking to the Federal Minister unless he says he will not talk to me and hopefully that day will not come. But I lotlk forward to carrying on these con­ sultation mechanisms, if you would call them that with iill involved and that is the 4439 .;-

May 21, 1980 Tape 1698 EC - l MR. J. K>RGAN: reason why today L illll convinced that the union were so sincere in their effortS to qet this compensation benefit for all fisharllen, that the first ~aetinq I held with them I recoqnized their sincerity. '!hey came fonoard with stories about people wbo lost an arm, people who lost a. leq, people who were crippled for life, people who lost certain finqers and their hands, etc., and qat nothinq for it. 'lhese a.re the kinds of stories I listened to, these a.re the kinds of stories my collaa.que listened to.

I de not know why it was not dell& in the past, that is not important to me.. The important thinq, Mr. Speaker, is, this is a. benefit and I th.ink it is recoqnized by all llllllllbers of the House who have fishermen out there in their own districts. For the fishe:raen out there it is a. benefit which is of importance to them, and I think that it is good news for a.ll the fishermen of the Province. '!hey Jcnow now t