PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY \ Voluma 1 NumbEr 15 4th. Se:;:;ion 34th. Gonera1 Assembly '• VERBATiM REPORT WEDNESDAY, :¥1~'\RCH 4, 1970 SPEAI<2R: THE HONGURP.GLE GEORGE'//. CLARKE

\farch 4, 197() lane 1!191 The House met at J P, "!. :·!R. SPEAKER' Order! HO~. J. R. S:'fALIYOO~ (Premier): '!r, Snenker, I h£>lieve 1 sneak for the House and every member in it when I express a ~ord of welco~e to some tvetve students from the College of Trades anrl Technology with their teacher, Hr, Stanley. These students are in course Forestr/ Technology Two.

He ~,.elcn:ne them here because, first because thev are '1ewfoundlanders • .and second, because they are at this great Collegej and third because thev Are tal.:.ing il course of instruction in an extremely imnortant nart of ~iet.'foundland' s li. fe and economy. narnelv. forestry. " I do not know if it their first visit to the House of Assembly - 1 do know how much they will understand of it. Tnev have come on a verv good day, Wednesday. 1•hich i.~ orivate me:11bers dnv. And that is the day when the Government have to take a ~ackseat.

The r.overnment cannot call business. the business of the House on Wednesday is called bv the private members of the House, on either side - those Hho supoort the Government, or those who oppose the Government. Bu1 members who are not members of the Government, And so today. we are likely to hear some flaminR oratory 1 and we are likely to be vastly inspired by stirrin~ and insoirin~ thouRhts. So the visitors have come at a very appropriate time indeed. And they and we will sit back and he informed and educated by some han. members of the House. I hope that the visitors will learn somethin~.

I am sorrv that the Leader of the Opposition is absent- I think he must have the flU. Yes, the ~[inister of Health tells :ne that if anv more oeople stan gettinj! sick. we may need a new Minister of Health. But ! do not think I wtll7~o far as to blame the sickness of the Leader of the Opoosition on the 'Holster of Health.

The ~inister of Health is not here. and so he is not in a oosition to speak or express the welcome to the House. ! am getting all confused - all I am trying to say is that the Leader of the noposition is not here, and now we have an e:<traordinary po~ition in the House todav, uhere the Tories consist of two renegade Liberals, and one T cry who has always been a tory I assume. and it is going to be a toss-up as to which one of them will soeak for the Oooosition. ~!v ~uess is it Hill be a reRular Torv, not <1 new-comer to their ranks.

P.owever, I am sure that uhoever F!peaks for the Onoosition, he will echo and re-echo what ! have said, mainly that the students in Forest Tt-:chnology .,

!-larch 4, 1970 Tanc fil91 the House ~:ith tlwir i:.<stntctor, 1·1r. Stanlev. !i~___ll:~·l0_h~_f:f:_!,LI~:s: >~:r. S-o!,.,l:cr, or: heha!f of the r:r~ml:.e~s o;-, this side of the House, it Rives r:;c rrc~::t pl,.csc;ure to rise ::n·,C t-n::lco;r<~; the stuDents who are t:,tt;c.nding fron the Coll0;::_e of Trrdcs :u;d Technology in their course in !-Jr. Stnnley. ~:aturallv co~inp.; fro:::.

Central Ece..·foundlnnd as I do, •.:hc.n one sees so;;.l~ students co~inf, in hen-' t-:hc nn::: stu:]y.inp.: forestrv technology, it ccrtninly gives nc: i1 feeling of p:-idc. bcc::msc 1 hnxe :1lu;;.vs thouf!ht that in this Province, etc,, th;:lt: >-:2 slwuld pay vo:re: <:ttcntion to courr,cs of th'i.r, n0ture in our t:nivercity.

Fo;..:cn:r it is nir.e to sec that the Co11cwe of Trnl!cs nnO Technology ;<rc giving r-G:-:-:c ,;t:tention to it, and I hope thnt the~ r,tudr2ntG, if t;e c.nn call then students, I ,:o not kna1.: :!.f T cnn sec thr:r, opposite, or v:hcther they are behind rr;e, I suspect tl-:~.'.t thcv :;rc young ;-;-,c_n, I would hope that they will learn su;--:ethin;:; in tl:e House toclnv.

I woulG hope; that thn· t-.·ill certainly ler.rn a lot ;;;ore :f.r. the Coll\2r;,e of Trades and Technology, Dl' ~·:hatevcr it miRht be, I de wish tl::ci:-, the best of luck in their studi.::s. and tlut the result of sue~! studies will cr;.r,blc them to he .<;,blc to assist the r:cvcnuc,cnt m;cl industry people of :;cvfoundland, l·~r. Spcub;:r, I wish to present a petition on behalf of the settler.JC~ts of Lush's Dight, Bc.;:mr..ont, :·iorth, Center and South. Hr. SpcHker, the pr2yer of the. petition is for thc ccnstr:uction of a toad across Long IslanG, linking up the fou:" sctclcmcntr> I h<>VC iust nm;-;cd.

I strongly support the prayer of this petition "lr. Snc;nkt:r, nnd nsk that it be received by the House, 2nd referred to the dc-rnrtr.cnt to v;hich it relates. 1 might say :·:r. Suenker, thnt it has only been Hi thin the laf;t week or two 1 t11nt Long Island hils received the benefits of electricity. It is u:oved <::nd seconded thnt this petition he reCeived and referred to the dcoartrr:cnt: to Hhich Lt rel:>tcs. 'lhosc in fuvour "ewe·', contrary "nay". Fr. Srx.:akcr, before ;.,·c put that, 1 vmuld like to sunport this

!-!arch 4, 1970 Tane fll91 Paf':e 3 oetition from the people of Lush's Bight and Beaumont in the renuest for a road across Long !Rland. !t is certainly a bit of surprise to ~e. knowing that those fine people have been renresented in this hen. House for so many years, by a Liberal member that at this late star,c, twentv-one vears after Confederation, we have to sit here and ,listen to a petition from those people for a small bit of road to connect two settlements. Notwithstandin~ that it is certainly a pleasure for us to supoort that petition.

Those in favour of the motion, please say "aye", contrary •nay" Carried. Presenting Reports of Standin~ and Select Catr~ittees: HON. E. S. DAh"E (Minister of ~-!uniciPal Affairs): ~lr. Sneaker, I be£ leave in accordance with Section (34) of the ~ewfoundland and tabrador Housin~ Corporation, to submit the Annual Report to£ether with the Financial Statement, as of the end of ~arch 31, 1969, and for information of members, extra conies will be available at the Clerk's office, HON. W. N. ROWE (Minister of Community and Social Develooment): Nr.

Speaker, I have the honour to table the Ragulat!ons and orders made bv the Deoartment of ~nes 1 Agricul:ure and Resources since the Legislature was in Session in May 1969. Notice of Motion: ~swers to Questions: MR, S~Al.LWOOD: Hr. Sneaker, Ouestion !-Io. (149) on the Order Paoer of today, although addressed to the Hen. the Hini~ter of Hunicioal Affairs, DU!'tht, I think, should have been addressed to me, as ~finister of Economic Development.

Has the Xinister any information that he can give this House concerning the continuation of the oayments to ho~eowners on Bell Island by the Government of Canada on relocation? In reply to that Question, I have to sav ~tr. Speaker, that the special housing arran~ement made ~y the Government of Canada and the Government of Newfoundland jointly, terminates at the end of this Present nonth. This ar~an?,ement was one under which the Govermne.nt of Canada contributed seventv-five nercent:: and the Government of Sewfoundland tventv-five percent. It comes to an end at the end of the ?resent month.

Question ~b. (151) ag<1in in the name of the hon. member for Gander- !,ly answer is as follows:

(1) Yes; :-fR. COLLDIS: Suoplenentary Oueii.tion (14Q) The ?remier tells u:<; it is to il*'_" ____ .. ____________ _;, __ ,""""'~----

J';,' )!,arch 4, 1970 oti it? \·;hen Govz:rn::12nt nolicv is G2t~.;nnlru::(!, it ..:ill he announceS in the ordinary to Questions in th2 l!uestion ncriod of the Bouse, If the. hon. ccntle:-:~an is rc;;dy I t:i_ll ;:o on .,;ith Dt:estion 051) And the A.:1S';,'CT to

(1) Yes: (2) r:o: (3) "::\:s~ (!..}Yeo, but; yes, 'rut nnt strnttuL:?.J Gcfec.ts. And the defects that no in no vav.

(5) To vivc the reasons for the failure of the pynlnns during icc~loudint; th3t occu-:rcd on these dates. (

G) The,_· ·,.·c::re of sufficient siz£, Spcui:.er, dc:>ic_ned to cnrrv one hu:1Gred ncrccnt more ice than in :;mv other Prlrt t:? .. COLLI:\S: If the hon. Frc•.r;-,ier ·.,..·ill nercit? 1 hi:.ve not had too much experience -~~c-~-·"~~·--• with S:-17

>larch t1th. 1970 Tape 192 PK - 1 I have not had to rr.uch experience this r-arti.culnr t;.<!'le of tower, but I have had consid~ra\cle C):<:crie'1ce ··-i.th vnriou;; kinds of :role lines. He have pictures. Sir, in"The Eveninf' TelcPr."!m shmrinr- that ore tO'·!Cr HR. SUALU.'OOD: Ask a quc~tion and not r:ive infomation. !·!R. COLLINS: Can the Premier indicat.e to the l!ouse, why it hi that one tower is flattened, ue have seen ;:-ictures of one tower is flattened, and an adjacent tower a feu feet auay is still standin~ t-Jith all three wires on it? }ffi..

St!ALUIOOD: It is a sensi!11e nucstinn, :u1d a verv practical one to which I figure t am not cor;1petent to givo? an anst•cr. i:'he an~:men; ! hnvc 11,iven are those that I have received from the ro~.·er {'ommif'Sion . I have ).'ivcn these ans~•c!:'s on ny authority as ~'inister of rconornic Development. hut actuallv, after bcin~ briefed by the Po":er Commission. t h.:'!Ve not been =riefed on tl1e matter that the hon. ;::!entleman ha-5 just raised, ).nd if be would like to give notice of it, and rut it on the Order Paper, Twill endeavour to ret an ansPer to it.

I cannot l':lyself, of my ow-n knot,dedp,e anst1er that questil'1n. I ni?ht r:uess. If one collasped the strain 'l>ould he f>reatly relieved on the other one. I do not !.:not.' if that is the anS"ter or not. I just do not know. <''.nd it i,;; no use nrcsuing the rntltter, ! do not know the answer. But, if the hen, !?.entlenan r.lil! put it on the Order raper, ! ~.rill endeavour to get the ans•,cer and rive hin. !-.'ell, ~·'r. Speo1~:er, can t-te have the assurnnce of the hon.

Prer.tier that this i:hole affair o,.lill he thorour,hly inve5tignted? ::ot only !ly the ?at:er Commissi'On, but by a corr;nittee of this House? :~ot by a ccrr.nittee of this liousc, ::r. Speaker, I have no thought at all that t~tere will be a cor::u:ittee of this House invest:irating it.

But I have every confidence that it uill he thoroughly invest:ipated as scientifically and enl'!ineerin?" wise, and in every other resnect hy the finest business organization we possess in our Province, the Power Cotr1mission of :,;eHfoundlnnd and Labrador, who have ::ore reason to i!!•Jesti~ate than anyone else has, because their reputation is:.safe.

Question ~:o. 151 in the name of the hen. the nember for Gander -Has consideration heen given to the ;;upply to Bell Island of tht: necessar; funds to complete the Island Centennial ?reject, if so what decision vas r.ade? !:do not know ;.•hat reference is :;ere to decision. Povever, :ny anst;er is that Bell Island Centennial ?roject received every dollar it Has entitled to receive plus, plus ndditional grants of a very substantictl amount of J":',oney over and above "''hat the tf'"{/ft:l

!-'n.ro:h i;th. 1970 PK - 2 project >,·2.s en:::itleG to receive. /md n!" I ;:ecollect, the ;H"('l\Jnt runs to sorr.e ::r. Src.nkcr, 1 voulC like to Bive the ;:wsvcr to question ~\o. 119 or, the Order Paper of !lonCrty, ?!arch 2nd. (2) ~3£,30!.; Further tc the first ptLrt of t!1c qtJcstion, the GovnrnDent is not rr,uired tt; rr:al:c pa;rsents of princip10 cnC interest 0:1 behalf" of the fish plant. of: ei::hl:r pdndplc or interest on behalf of tf:c shipvnrci. In rtns~:c:· to pnrt (2) the $2650. :-.:H~ in nns>-.rcy to pnrt (3) for the year ended ?.:cvcr::be::: 3'Jth. 1968, $1,010,559.

AnG fo:: the yc<::.;.;:- ended ;;ovcubcr 30th. 1%9 $576,804. hon. r..:!.nister sa1C thst the Gcvcrnrnr2nt is not respon::;ibc to rrcct nny nayr.Hmts of principle ;:md interest v:ith respect to !ltn"yc>to:--'n Sh::!.pynrd - Is .:1ny <!gcncy of the Gover;;:::r:::Jt required to ;vJet pcyr~cnts of 7incipJ.e a:.1d intr:rest? Such ns the InCustri2l Dev0.lopc;cnt Corpo:r.:1tiou or any other ar.cnc.y? on tbc Order Pare~· .sJdn:;sseG to the h;:m. the Pr;:::uier.

Strickly spcul·ing it should :C8 aros\:creC by the t"inister o: !-':rovincL;l Affairs - Correspondence v;;.s received t:as referred to >?-2 !:.y the Pre;;:i.cr-.Office. Th-:: question is- 1b.s there been any corrcspontlcmcc Lct\..'08.:> Covernr:-. .-::nt 211d C:under Tovn Council concC:t:nin~; tl;c construction of r; Golf Course n.t Gander? LlC nnr:;.,·cr to that p;;rt is 0 ycs'-, The second part,::.if the :1nsw0r to (

l) is yes, please tnblr: the correspcndcnce, since I only noticed this qt:estion vhen I can!:! up here, ! hnvc net the con:esrondenct'. 1 but I \:ill table it. The nnsvcr, !'r. Speah:x to part (3) nnC (!,) is o.s th.1.t given Ly the Preimcr to nnothsr qecstion. "!\ar:-.ely; tho;t it is not nottal to answer Covcrnvcnt policy ~uestions 1 to unsvc;r;; on the questions on the pnymcnt. t:'J:_._COLLI::s: That qucsticm Wls intended for th1.' !Ainistcr of Co:7,r.unity and Social Pc.vr;.lop:~cnt. \::'"!ere the er-ror t-.'i::IS r:-,ade to th2 Prenier, I tH:::. not sure.

J:as there ~.ecn a reply to cO'tt<Cu;pondcnce frof.'l the Tovcn of G.::nrh:,:r conccrnint thin? And has xccot:-:..'7x:r:dations bcc:1 r~1.da. to the Federal Govcrnrent? Question r;o. 130 on Tucr;ny, O:rdcr Pilpcr, of h1rch 3rd. <1-skcd by the bon. 1::er.bcr fron ff// I

PK - J St. John's West. Ihe ans~-'er io:"Yes" Regular ins?ection is taking place by an official of 1717 depart:r:ent, while he is visitin.: other councils tn the area. Inspection cottt::enced on February 18th, and has not been concluded. Therefore, the second part of the question do not a?ply. Question No. 144 on today's Order Paper of Narch 4th. asked by the hen. metnber from Burin. The first part of the question is "yes''. The second part of the question by the !'iewfoundland Fishery De7elop.::ent Authority on behalf of Bay Bulls Feed Products Limited.

Answer to Question No. 147 on today's Order Paper asked by the hon. 'l member for Fortune Bay. The answer to the question is ''Yes". Further discussions are be held with the !01"11 ~!ana;;er and the Council and the Fire Chief to determine what appropriate action should be taken, and for the infornation of the House 1 a dele~ation is callin~ on the official of ~y departnent tomorrow. nR. CROSBIE: ~1r.

Speaker, a supplementary ouesticn to Ouesti0n ~~o. 130 - Do ! understand the Xinister to say that there is no special investir,ation into any financial or other services of the Bay Roberts Town Council vith just a normal regular inspection by the de-;~artrr.ent? MR. OAtVE: The ans~er to the question - there is an inspection being carried on there at the ti~e. and the official was out in that area, hut he is carrying on a more detailed inspection in the Town of ~ay Roberts. HON. JAI1ES R. CHAUCE'l{: (~maSTER OF PUBLIC t·iOR.I{S): ;~r.

Sneaker, ! have the ans-..·er to Question ~o. 110 on the Order Paper of February 27:h. asked hy the hon. member for Gander. (la) Ehat uas the cost,- of the land purchased; this is in relation to the Provincial Building at Grand Falls, ~'r. Speaker. Land purchased 552,444.00. (

b) Buildinl2: Construction- $2,056.89C. (

c) Furnishinf!s- $1.7,322.00. {2) Total office space- '47,385 sq.feet.J.of this ~0,568 sq. feet were occcpied by the Provincial Government.

(4) Pot.' ::-any square feet are leased, to tvbom, at t,'hat rentals? 6,717 sq. feet. The Federal Departr.ent of PubHc Harks annual rental of $6,500. C.N.T. $2,875.00; R.C.~I.P 521,789. I tJill table the anst.,·er to part (5) of the question ~!r. Spea:.:er, alons- •,,;ith the nur:Jber of departments t~at the Government has in this buUdinp. (6) t~'hat uas the cost of operation of the ~uildin11 tn they year 19691 $82,240.00

(7) The total revenue for l'J69 - S2.9,30D.DO. (8) t,:hat vas the a.'Tiount of tax assessed hy the Totm of Grand Falls on the huildinp: for the year 1969? The nnst:er is1 pronerty not taxable.

(9) I will table that l!r. Speaker as it is quite len~thly.

(10) Fhat vas the cost of furnish!ne the office occupied by the ~!ember for the District of Grand t"alls - detail cost of carpet. Cesk and other ,f'/f2._

T:we J 92 PK - 4 e:::uipr.ent? 1 r-D.Y r;Gy '-'r. Sre2kc:-, this offjcc is not cut there solely for the there prir..nrtlY for the use cf the F1·c;-;1er. first of 211. And n:-:y ether cnbinet cinistc:r r;:;1y visit GnmC Fo.lls end vill rcqtlin: the use of saPC. The answer sit!c chnirs - $360.00, a l:ookc2se - $l30.0C, t;;l'lc- :::90.0') Elbr Cn::int:t: - $99.00- other nisceilancous rr.e? Yc.:; I snid it, yes. first dwicc, nfter tl-,at tl~c t".cmbcr ..•... '''--- >.,:lttcr who it wi;:;ht be ln the future? £fR. __5-HA.LKER: !l? .. S~J\LL\·:IJDD: lt is dcfini.tcly the.

Govc.rnr.snt policy in the future. \·:ill the office be <J.\:ailG.blc for :.m r,on-portfolio7 I-S \-..'ELLS: E~ docs not kno:• >·:hat to do ~..:ith the office he hns got now. The anst;cr to Question (ll) ;-lr. Spcnl:er, t:hat is the function. of the full tine secret,u-y in the office of t.hc Eenbcr io:r the District? The secretary the full tir::.o c:::ployee of the Departr-;cnt of EGuc<:~tion, and t;ork.s for the ree:ional supcr•:isor anc~ s~hool atteudancc officer.

And I assure thnt >.;hen Bhc hG.s to tnke clictfltion fror:: any bon. r.J.niste:: th;::~t is there, that: sltc is av.:tilnblc to do such y;ork, And hon. rnccbers, as t."ell. yF.. CHALKEr: I said dnistcrOJ, !-~r. Speaker. They all "'ant to get on top in e. hurry those young felJ.o;;s, th,~y r,.:i,ll hnvc to vait, !-!r. Speaker, for at least I think for another fifteen ycnn;, \-loulC thtrt be suital:Jle to you !<r. Premier? l:'R. PRE>llER: I ..:ill sny fror:; Hfteun to t¥-'Cnty years. !2':. Cl-L\LlU:E: I-' ell cake it tv:tmty~fh·e years, rf' .If j

}!arch 4th. 1970 Tape 192 PK - 5 Question

(12) Is said secretary at civil servant? Yes. Question(lJ) k1lat responsibility has contractor to make good defects in concrete and plaster finish? Answer contractor responsible ~up to a certain length of time. I think it is a year or two years, I am not quite sure, Mr. Speaker. Hr. Speaker, I will table those ansvers. And I will also table the information concerning who works there, and vhat Governr::ent Departments occupy the building. HON. WILLIA.I.f R. CALLML\N: <;:r::ISTER OF :<:I};ES, AG~~}{E A~;n RESOURCES) I have the answer to ~!r. Speaker.

Question no. l3i: }lr. }lurphy.

(1) Yes.

(2) Sl.OO. In respc.c.t to the first part npin, Mr. Speaker, Hr. David Locke, Lh;ll Is!tmC t.'ho i::' the purcbnser. (3) .!io ~ second part of that c;t:sstion is no. (!;) 1: vcas, >lr. Spcn.;;cr, in tbc first instnnce and then ! uru::lerst;:mC thnt nt n r::ccting of the ?ell !sltmd Econo;::,ic !Jcvelopc,ent Cor:::::tittce, it vas sugscsted th:c.t the 1'-u:ildin; be nllo;,:cd to rcrr,ain in order thnt the resycctiv<~ purd~aser r:.is;ht u;;e: it i.n connection with sor.e asricu1 tural pursuit ami t.~oc decision vs.s r::.2d2 to nllo;.; the builc!inz to stn.nd rond the ;:cntler.1nn has tht! ucc of it.

T'nc L::.nd, of course, is invested in the cro\m c.nd there has been no trc.nsnction in rsspcct of the land, Qucs tion no. 138: !'r. !'lurphy. I think I ;1:1vc to szy i:;. reply to the question, l<r. Spcn},er, that the B<2ll Isl:mC G:.~r::st House s:.cc oonths o.co ;-:ns tn:nsferrcd to the administration of the St. John's llousinsc Corpornt:ion nnd tlnt the question rr:it_;ht best be l.'edire:c ted. Que<" tion no, lf;Q: ~;::-. Hickey,

(1) Ycr;. In reply to the second, third, fourth and fifth pnrt; ~have to sny tl ~it thr.; lu,.; officers of the Govern::1cnt nrc pursuing a claim for damges. Quu;; tion no. 1!<3: :-:r Earle. 7en t:ollars n short ton on site. <lt Bell Islat'.d, Qucstib:l~no. 82: Er. Crosbie.

(1) L:Jer the lesislution constituting the Health R8sourccs Fund which, of course, Sir, as hen. r:.c:-;bc:rs arc a":arc is lcgislati.on of tbe Parliament of Canada, the Gove.rnr::t~nt of !-Ci?xfoundland and Labrador ,cn:c entitled to receive in the first instcmce., S17.9 nillion. 1~nis represents the totnl of tbe per capita. grants .:1nc: t..n agreed portiou:~o£ the special grant for the Atlantic provinces.

Additicn2lly 1 Ec.d.'cu::>dL:md is entitled to a shore of the $175 million portion of the £u:1d vhic:h is to be spent nt the. discretion of the Governot·~in-Council ngain of Ottnva, Cnnndo. tlo p:1yr.cnts have been t:adc to ~wy t;.overnn:nt out of this latter portion of the fund, Sir. Hcvfoundlnnd's share, if it Y.'t:rc. to bo. divided on a per capitn. basi::; and I ctr,?hnsizc thnt our position i!:i that :l.t should be divided on a :cxn:e generous basis to us, on a per capito. basis, Sir, it tmuld be $LJ.3 mlllion for n tocnl of, if I aritbmetic is correct, $22.2 nlllion.

March 4th., 1970 Tape no. 193 Page 2 With reference to a second part of the first part of the question, Sir, the Government of Canada contribute toward the cost of postsecondar; education in Newfoundland on the sarne basis, as they do for any other province. One of the methods by which the amount paid by that Government under this program is computed is by reference to the total cost of postsecondary education as defined.

The cost of the faculty of medicine, if they are not covered under any other program tmrards which the Government of Canada contribute, would be included in the cost of postsecondary education in Newfoundland. Further Mr. Speaker, any hospital Yhich might be built "Would t'ecei•:e payments under the Hospital Insurance Plan from the Governoent of Canada and any - Mr, Speaker, with deference it was asked, because I said that the question, any assistance towards the opet"ating costs of the ~tedical School - any hospital which might be built and perhaps I should add in connection with a ~dical School.

If the hon. gentle~3n will cast his mind back to the time, when he was minister, ani the Government passed the point of no return on the ~!edical School, Sir, a hospital is an integral part of the operation. Any hospital which might be built would receive payments under the Hospital Insurance ?l~n from the Government of Canada.

Any doctors rendering insured ;ervices Yithin the scope of the Medical Care Insurance Plan would also ~ttract payments fron the Government of Canada. !n each case, of course, this reoney comes from the Government of Newfoundland in the usual fashion as for any other hospital or for any other doctor in this Province. MR. CROSBIE:. Is there any special financial assist~~ce proposed by the Governcent of Canada towards operatin!! costs of }!edicaLSchools~ apart from the minor items you have already mentioned, which we all know about? MP,, ROBERTS: ~r.

Speaker, the minor ite~~ to ~hich ! mentioned ~ould total $5 or $6 million towards a total cost •••. ..=.~· CROSBIE: that is the ~edical School- University Hospital. ~~. ROBERTS: Xr. Speaker, if the hen. gentlerean will cast his mind back •• ~~~§El]1_ If you will cast your mind forward. ~~· SP~XER: Order please. ~m. ROBERTS: He vill recall that a Cniversity P.ospital is an integral part of a Yedical School. You cannot have a Yedical School, ~!r. Speaker, without a

~~arch 4ti;, 1970 Ta.pc no. 193 Paf'e 3 hospital. Order p!.c:ns<.;, f, r:uestinn is bc:inr. ;ms· .. -ered nnG. it is not subject to nny cor~;cnt. 'n,i1nk you, I-:r. Speaker.

E unothc:: hospital is to be used, thsn it T,dll receive. contributions from The: c.nsuer, Sir, to th12 second pnrt is tha-t this i,; a n:-.:1ttc:· of Coverncent p<)licy and t-:::Lll be ilrmounccd at nn <1:ppropriatc tine. the hon. gcntl2r:an 1s c·1p to r:-.vcrflm;ing.is as follot-:s: The ~!:!.nister of National Eenlth ant! :-.'r,lfure h0.s nlrc,cr2.? ;:mnounc.-;d publicly t;-;ntthc Govcrnc:cnt of Cnnuda intecd to :r2strict p2yDer.ts fro;:. th,; EenJ.tJ:; Rescurccs Fund for the 1970-1971 Hscnl ye<1r as they hnvc do;1c for the l%9~1970 fiscal yenr.

The total amount that tlut p,ovcrnnent 1dll P"-Y cut cf the fund in cit;1er of these years is $37 .i.c~"llion , t:o.-Eouncll.::mJ is entitlt:d to such port!.O~: of this pnyttcnt tJ.s lw:r population is to the populnt:Lon of CanHdo.. Any r:.onit!!J which are. n:.oni,;.s ...-hich a·i.'c not drn;;n accm~ulate to the credit of: the. Provincc;sitd.laril•/, any overc:o:pcnditurcs by a provinc2 <se debited arn.inst thnt province, and they are covered for future years. Zt:. Spcnker, there :i.s <;:.question on today';_; Order Paper from the. hon. mcE.bcr for Burin district.

Eus there been any inclicutior. by ti:c Govern:nent of Canada as to ;,'~en a decision -Hill be .:cccived as to the paction of the $175 dllion st:Lll unallocated? l<:P:.:_____:~:::nE~S :Er. Spca~:er, this Govcrnc::nt huvc received no ind'ic;:.d.on, althOHf\h -.:c tnvc continunlly, pe1:haps, 1 Co not believe any government in Canada have any such indic.2tion to add to that. H}i_~.JiJ-S:!;'~"'N:. Then I gothcr that: you 2.rc pressing for sor::ctbing other than a per capitn Ci5tribution? E!'·-·- ROE£RI.S: h'e ;;:ost ddinity nrc, Sir. Fe. 1;:ost def1nit<Fly nrc. Hi•cn the hon.

March 4th., 1970 tape no. 193 Page 4 gentlew~n was in the portfolio I now hold, he expressed the policy of the Government that we are entitled to more than the per capita share and that is our policy and will continue to be our policy, Sir. Question no. 139: ~r. Hickman.

(1) There are, Sir, two doctors in practice on Bell Island both of them employees of mine. They are each doing general practice work. One of them a Greek gentleman, whose name r cannot pronounce, Dr.Lathouris, I am told by my colleague, the member for Bell Island; is a qualified surgeon and ! am told carries out a considerable number of surgical procedures.

(2) I have received no such representation and ny officials tell ne that they have received none.

(3) I am not sure I knoY what the heR. gentleman is driving at. There were formerly 14!000 people on Bell Island. There were three general practioners with no hospital. There are now about 6,000 living on Bell Island. There are, as I have said, two doctors. They have a hospital with a staff of about fifty people incldding ten or tuelve registered nurses. Is that sufficient, Mr. Speaker? I do not know if that is sufficient or not. I think we could use more doctors on Bell Island as .... e could in al:rost every part of Newfoundland. ! think the services on Bell Island are t~e best they have been in a long time.

There is still room for improvement • MR. CROSB~~- Mr. Speaker, would the hen. minister per~it a question? MR. ROBERTS: Of course. MR. CROSBIE: Are the tuo doctors on Bell Island workinR for him personally or for the Government of Newfoundland? MR. ROBERTS: Xr. Speaker, as the Premier has said, when I said they were employees of mine, none of us sits in this House serves an individual. i.;e sit here as a member for a district. Some of us from tine to time hold the Queen's commission to be a minister. The two doctors on Bell Island are employees of the Government of Newfoundland.

Wben I say employees of mine, because!, as his hon.friend,the faithful follower the member from Hunber \-Jest said a day or so ago, I answer personally for the act of any official e~ployed in the department of which I am the political head, so does any of my colleagues, Sir, and we do it gladly. Question no, 135: Hr. Crosbie. the cost of construction $2,215,086.37. Received from the Atlantic Development Board 5918,241, 06 pending of Atlantic Development 3oard, $32,319.70 ('~-' ______________________ ,.,

~:arch 4th., 1970 Tap;~ no. 193 p;::dd by Electric Reductio:: Cor:;p;:my o:: (;:m:da Linited 5500,000. ~~.:t:.:.~.&~:_- !·:r-. Spc.2kn, h"Ould the hor:.. minister pcrr::it tl- su;rplccentary qqestion, on <;_ucstion 83 of yf~stcrday. He left the C1>0t:'~r.:tr shortly after answering it and I diC not get tho opportunity to 0sk a supp1cr::cnt:J.ry question. TI1e question is concc:rniniC the ro2C f:tG::', Dell0oros to Pool's Cove. The answer to tl~nt "-''rtS thnt it v;Gs fin"::hed, construction ,,·ns finished. hinlt is the Pcan1.ng of finlshed ?

E?:-·* _ _?I.:0!.!!~:._:. :-:r, Speaker, T tdll chcd: for th~ hon. t:cntlc.c.:m a:1d lt!.t hit knc"'· tc-morrow, !if~ . ..:~2<~\~_!;.~·~092:_ Send 1-:ir:: eve,:: !?. dictionary, ~:E:_·~_5_PI:\£Z~EB,:__ Furt11cr anG>.-er;, to questions, >7:~:~§k~\_~~L~::_0_QJJ~~ ~~r. S?sn}er, before your llo:1our culls Orders of the Day, may ! h<Jvc. t!--lc: pc·n:-td.ss:fnr; o: the House to rr.J;:c o ;dn:!.stcrial statcr::cnt to be follo·.,;ed by s.nother very in?c:rtant ni_nistcdzl st2terr.ent as 'Well.

I n.: pleaseC to be abl0, thrcut;!1 the :!n!;trw.;cntality of r;;y colleague the P::inistcr of Pro\•inciol /Sf3:!:rs to inforn the House th3t the Govermr.cnt have invited the follctdnt-~ pLrsons to forr:-. pnrt of 0. ccG:",:lttcc to be knovn as the !·:r. z Sac.2t2, t};.:; Ccput:y rrinistcr 1-·ith e:n ultcn:utc, if ncccssar:y. From the Dcpur:::r;,s:;.t of Econor:ic Dcvelopncr,t, !<r. lkrr.G.n TI,'lttcn, !<r. EC;..:urd P. Eenley. Fron the Departmsnt~~.~f Fisheries, l--1.r. Cliff Russell, Chairtnn of the Fisheries Lonn Board and !<r.

Eoss Young of the Fisheries Authority, if he c.:1n be made available and 1 thi:;k he c:1n, Fro~ r~enorinl L'niversity, Dr. J,ng.us Bruneau,;<the De;;.n of Ensineering. Fro;;; the fisheries Col1cr,e, Dr. Fn.y Barrett, its President ar.d to be st::cretary o!: the tusk force, l'-1r.

Herbert Caom;;;s, the deputy mintster of Provincial Affairs, I understand fro;:;1 tiH~ 1::embcr for the di~otrict, the 1-linister of i?rovincial Affairs that t1:J<:: Federal ;::~onbers of the task force ore planning to visit tLc Placentia area this co;.;ins S2turday to meet v:ith the local corr:,ittee there and vith representatives of the r:cv.'foundlrnd Cor:::mittcc just referred to, The r:;cet!.ng is scheduled for 11:00 .:1 • .:1. on Saturday o.nd it ;is to take place in the to;-;n hull nt Dunvillc. Er. Specker, I should like to onnouncc also that ?If 'I

March 4th., 1970 Tape no. 193 Page 6 Mr. John M. Shaheen, the head of Shaheen Natural Resources of New York and Mr. Homer Hhite the President of the Refining Cor::pany and Mr. Roy Furrr..ark the financial adviser to that group and Hr. Wilson, the head engineer and some four or five high ranking officers of the Shaheen group.are coming to St. John's on Sunday for meetinRS on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday with the Cabinet and ~~th the Caucus, the Liberal Caucus. Honday, Tuesday, probably Wednesday.

Later in this present ~eek, the Government are having a grnup of four lawyers, four solicitors go to Europe in legal capacity. Tvo, we hope from the department of my hen. colleague the Minister of Justice. Two we hope from there. One private barrister and solicitor of the city and one private barrister or one private solicitor from the English bar in London. A team of four lawyers vho will go, I hope, tomorrov or the next day or Friday to Europe to confer there with lawyers of the corporations and other parties involved in Europe in the construction and equining of the oil refinery at Come-by-Chance. The

1<tL S!'L\LU~00!5: ---~---··-~ Ll.r;:itcd, I think ;;. total cf four- o: us, or is it five? Five in all - ar:1 CnLinct and in the.: Libcrn2. Caucus. to sis'' ti1\1 agrcc::~e:n t un Saturday. ~\G too 1n:mt a couple of days to go over th2 ag;ree:::c!ttts ;:;nd to De advi.sc:C hy our lo.uycr5 w:;o &.n; z.oing n:wnd of us, 2n;..; tileR return to 5::;. Jolm' :; ::;,, th;lt on the fo.l.lov:Lns ~!onc!ay or soon nfter a(;pcuring l-;; n ;~e~tin; of 1::C~1':Jcr<> of tlH: Eous.: iv~lU. partly in private nnd it :;culd -v1·ovide . !? PI

arnnunition to commercL:ll compctic:ors of t:lC refinery, <md in public for the reJt of the ti~c. I ought to szy in conclusion !'!r. Speaker, t!tat the agreements, the agreeoent to be signed on Saturday next t,;eek vi11 be conditional. It will not come into effect until thi;; House runends the existing agreer.,ent. If that amendment is not t':'ade the '.i'hole thing "lill fall to the ground.

The amendoent is of a technical character t"hich does not change the nature of the arrangement. 1\nd then there is one other amendment <,;hich ! think the House vill have no difficulty whatsoever in passing, and in passing with pleasure. That is how it stands at the moment. HON. L.R.CURTIS (President of the Council): :-!r. Speaker, I move that this House do not adjourn at six o'clock today. ~!R. CROSBIE: ~!r. Spe8.ker, before we vote on that, the hon. Leader of the House - is it his intention that we have Firday night off this •..;eek also? ;,m, CURTIS: !-!R. WELLS: That is the ylan '!r. Speaker !-tr.

Speaker, further, before we do vote on it- is it also the intention of the Leader of the House to close the House tonight after the Opj_lOSition tnatters hnve been discussed, or to brins on the Governn:ent business·- if it should terminate before? MR. CURTIS: I ~rould plan Nr. Speaker, that +..;e ?lay it by ear. Hy present plan 'Would be if these ;::otions do not take coo long, to proceed +..;ith the address anU reply. MR. SPEAKER: Notion 2, on todays Order Paper in the name of the hon. oember for Humber Eas::. $. WELLS: Hr.

Speaker, before l say ;.;hat 1 have to say it might be of some value co rc.ad the r:1otion. ·rhe :notion read;; as follows:- '#1iER£AS it is essential for .:111 }lcmbers of this House to have reasonable of fie~ accomadation 'Close. ::.o the House, to enable them to properly discharge their duties; AHD \~1iEREAS the Government has refuse.!. to provide suitable accomodation on either the 9th. or lO::h. floors of Confederation :Ouilding for the ~1enbers for llonavista ~iorth, St. John 1 5 Hest, St.

Barbe Sout:l, and Hum~er tast; A."iD WHERE.AS space on the lOth. floor assigned to the UonouraOle }!iniste-r Without Portfolio, the !'~ember for Labrador South is neither necessary for nor used by the Honourable :-!inister; THEREFORE 3£ IT RESOLVED tbnt titis House directs t!1e Government to r.~ake available to t:IC said >~cr.Jben; tile sp.::.;:e on the lOth.floor

~1inist~.Cr L'lthollt Portfolio. in ::i;is House involve::~; not onl;: sLt:tins ir: it, 0.1;J listening to nll other I ' '- 1 0 C iOC:e: .._r;_ tl1e ,1ftcrnooE until six o 1 clock, 2-:Hl the:1 fror:: ci;_;i:t o 1 clod; Lntil eleven- tLat is net all that is pr;:;;L:L::'ation for it.

You cannut ju:;::. uttlk in ~:nd discuss the principles ;::::n:ndeJ since 1952, so in onic:.: tc JH'Uj1~riy co:1sidcr \Jhat is in these Rills job is to be pJ;opcrly Wcnc, ;1nd very often to rch:r to other lcr,lslation that He helve to consider the Auditor General's report- that is one of out: QDSt ic;oortnnt functions us ccm:;ers of t.h:!.s House bc:cau:.;e, the Government cannot spend a single cunt -..:ithout the nutiwrity of t!1is House, and the AuW.ito-r General is the scrv<tnt of th:i:> House •,:ho rcvic:.us the public ,1,ccounts and tells the >.,ember:.; of this !louse w:tcther or not the Govcnment llns spent the Doney in i:l>::cordance \Ilth the dircctionp of the l!ous~.:, And if t!H~Y have not why they have not, ;:md where t!1cy h::1vc not .::nd by hov r::uch c.nd so on.

It: order to rcvic•: the /,uditor General's :rwport and the public sccounts there be clone ncain on this. - '

Harch 4, 1970, Tape 194, Page 4 -- :tpb The Government members do not have quite the sa~e problem. The hon. members who sit opposite and smile or read poetry as the case may be do not have the same concern - do not have the sar.;e worries. They are backed up by several thousand civil servants. They rely on the ministers who present. the legislation, the minister f,Jho brings do-w-n the Budget. They rely on those ministers to look after the interest of that side of the House.

And behind those ministers are several thousand civil servants who do the vork for them with - well I '.las going to say unlimited accomodation but I understand it is not entirely unlimited but vith ample accor.J.odation available. Most ~embers who sit opposite including those members vho are not members of the Government do not have to concern themselves vith the details of the Bill and what is involveJ in it. The Dill for example to - the Bill respecting private investigators and security guards. Naybe they have read it and maybe they have not - 1 do not know. But f,Je on this side of the House Hr.

Speaker, aave to read it anci have to consider it in the light of other legislation and have to consider what it means to this Province and how the rights of the citizens are being protected or interfered with or exactly what is involved. This is the duty that is upon the members who sit an this side of the House in particular, and 1 think :tr. Speaker this ••••••••••••••

Nnrch 4, 1970 lapc 195 Page 1 GC Hr. Speaker, this gives :;he lie co the sta.ter-;ent n:Jde earlier by the Premier tho.t H8 \J::>ri:cd or:ly tiJcnty-;,cven hours. Who should be tJorricd ilbout •,;orking only tt.-:cnty-seve;1 hours? There is ;:. lot more th;1-:1 t'..;enty-scven hours involved in the tine thnt we nuve vorkcd, pe;n;H!rs of vork:!.ng only during the hmn:s they spend inside this Char::bcr nnd that it is stupid to think tL:Jt r.Jen:Jcrs only tJork for the five or eight ueeks the House is in session and then only in the hours thot they nre in this Char:~bcr.

Four-fifths of their •,;o1·k is done outside the Chmnbcr. draw sy rl."-!nnrks. I nust h;;,vc r:dsu>1.dcrstood hin, because l umkrstood the other dr.y, uhc>1 the Pre:7li(r L'::s S?C:Jkinr,, that this is certainly the imprcs- hours; uc have only ~Jorked t~;c;;ty~Sc•:<m houcs this v;cck. ~:y, that uas a very de£inito ir::prcesion he left me with. However, I must h:Jvo. nisunUcrstood hin, and 1 <:.m grateful no;.;, for his acknoulcdt;c~.:-ent that four-fifthc> of the.

W'ork is outside this Cha?lber and I lw;-;cd--hc~ vould Lc/~g~Hg~ggt~~d hns suf;:icient respect for thz:t fact to accord to the ncr:<bers w!-;o sit where I nit, i1r. Speaker, sot:le reasonable accm::odation in w~:ic.h to do that t-~ork, Proper preparation ta~~cs tice a:d it t;Jkes, not only a m.1ttcr of reading this little bill, it r;;co.ns h,wing avo.ilnblc to the person doing the preparation all the revised statutes and all·of the Ut;;cndrr.cnts that he.ve been passed in. Tht: previous cstinates of precious years.

The previous auditors general reports, previous public accounts - all of this has to be <::'l:ailablc, and not~only nust it be available in the norning. It must be available vhcn these matters are brought b;;_forc the Hou0c because in the course of dcbate,.or in the course of discuswions on Lhe Public Accounts or whiltcver the case Dnybe, t:l<::ttern :cone~up,nnd these little dra;1ers in our desks, here, is convenient nu they muy be. Tiwy are certainly not adequate to accomoda.tc all t!1~;;:;;c things. So, the mcnbcrs concerned lu·Jc to go sot:;cvhere and get it.

The Hinister of Public Horks thinks - if the r.:enl:!er lnwpens to be a ;-;;ember of the Independent Liberal group - there is nothing \·n·ong with him running clovn to the. third floor, but not !10 for the minister. r:c t-tnnts to be able to step outside, see anybody he uont.s to, still keep in contact 6';/,f

March 4, 1970 Tape 195 Page 2 GC vith the House and so on. But, we who happen to be members of the Independent Liberal group, the indication froo the1 minister is, the minister has a common-room available to him fifteen feet behing him, as well as his office on the fourth floor, He has that as well. k~ BON. ME-'!BER: him. The hon. gentleman has the men's room available to }ffi, WELLS: Yes, we have the men's room available to us. I try and avoid it after I have seen my hon. friend in-it. I cannot always do that.

We have to tolerate certain inconveniences and certain methods in the House on occasions and we are seeing another classic example of it here nou. Brilliant remark. Really brilliant remark. Really, not much of a credit to the great people of Bell Island that he purports to represent. MR. !lllARY :' The hen. gentleman could be in there now, for that matter, for "Jhat contribution he is making to the House. MR. WELLS: The Government n.embers, :-rr. Speaker 1 do not have to concern themselves.

I seriously doubt ~hether th~re is a member who is not a member of the Cabinet 1 who has read through and gone through, for example. the bill respecting private investigators for

an Act Further to Amend the Fire Prevention Act, for any act that m1y hen. member wants to pick out - the Act Respecting the Expropriation Act, because he does not have t!-le same" concern. He does not have the same responsibility in duty as the members who sit on this side of the House. They have a particular duty upon them - to watch every single word that goes into legislation and comes out of this House: to obtain an e:cplanation and to put for,...ard points of vieu other than points of view offered by the Goverr~ent and Government members.

There is a particular duty on the r:1cmbers .,.ho sit opposite to obtain these explanations, not for the mem~ers clone, but for the general public of this Province and to ~atch every single ~ent that is spent. That is the particular duty of the members who sit on this side of the House, and I do not think that anybody will deny it and they cannot ve.r; •..:ell discharge that duty that we have ~ot to be running in and out of the clerk 1s office.

}1nrch 4, 1970 Tape 195 Page 3 GC There is no rootn there, 2n;r..';;y. 'tnc clc:rk'_s offic2 is overburdened as it is. Our responsibility is not to cdtidsc for the sake of criticis:':l, although this is u chcu:gc often levelled nt r,cr;;br:rs ·who sit on this particubr side of the House. Oh, it is just tho Opposition. They are alwnys criticising.

It is the duty of the r;;c:nbers vho sit on this side of the House to criticise for the purpose of b<:lnging to the uttention of the puople of this Province the varyin; points of vieA and the dirfcrcnt aspects involved ir; every piece of Lcr:islation t:hnt cones out of this House - to bring out the fncts. 'li:nt is the rcsponsibil:!.ty of the r::0mbc:rs who sit here.

Althouc;<, i!ll ce:::bcrs h;:;.vc 2. cir.:ilnr respor.sihility, the vay it is \Wtkcd out i';."l practice 1 tbc r.:cnbcrs wbrJ sit on the Govern::ncnt side of the House, do not cor;ccrn tl"::c::tsclvcs with tllnt nnd do -nbt really h;;.ve to, to be honest. Tl::cy should be conccrnc:U Hitll vhnt is going through the House and what they 53.)', yc.s tmd no to, but from a point of YicH of r;cne:cul principles, £rem a point of view of practice • they can rely on the ministers and the thousands of civil servants th<:!t back up the ministers to do this work, but those of us who sit here, !{r.

Speaker, huve the duty ir,,poscd on theo to go over every word in it and c;·c.ry key an;l every eye in it antl in particular, every cent that the Govcrnc:c:nt has autharicy to spend. It is -s~ particular duty. He are not asking lor anything out of the ordinary. Not auking for: anything lnorE: them any other c:enber has.

Not a single thing. 1 .. 11 Govc·rmnent r:.em~crs have available to them, a fni.rly large co<<J:Uon-rocm ir.;.:~eciiate.ly behind the Ge>vcrm:cnt side of the House, about fifteen feet directly bchL:vl the H!.nistcr of Public Harks and only ten feet behind the Hinister ;;ithout Por-tfolio, tbe member for Labt·ador South, W'hen he is sitting in the llousc.

Only ten feet behind him or less than that. lr;.:;oediatcly availi1blc., All the mc.ml.lcrs uho sit there have a place where ther can go to discuss Watters while the House is in session, where they can mttkc telephone calls and still listen to wht1.t goes on iu the House, where they cun sec people '.-Jho come to sec them and still listen to ~<;hat goes on i.n the Bouse.

March 4, 1970 Tape 195 Page 4 GC Titere is nothing wrong ~ith that. That is the way it should be. That is the way it is in almost all Parliaments. That is the way it should be. it I do not say there is anything wrong with that or that/1s a waste of money. That is quite proper. That is the way it should be. In what must be the good old days when there was not so much ill feeling and ill-will, when the Government were apparently reasonable, they provided similar accomodations for the Opposition and ever since the Opposition has had it.

It is im:nediately behind us on this side of the House for any member of the official Opposition who :.:ants to make or take a telephone call or consult '4ith anybody who cones to see the~:~ or do any work that they want to do. They have only to step out there. That is all that is involved. In the sa~ good old days, ~hen there were f!rst independent ~embers in this House, provision was made for them too, by taking a portion of the Opposition space down that end. It is ample for four or five, Ot--"·six; of:·· seven or eight or nine or ten indepenrlent members. The invitation· is still there.

There is no white line on the floor yet. ~o crosswalk, but I do not think it is really necessary. I think han. members could find their way across when they are ready. The space is there was made available, then for a nur::ber of years, there vere no independent members. :-io members who did not belonr, to either the Government ?arty or the official Opposition ?arty, and so that room was taken and used by the clerk of the Hause. Probably properly so. I do not think there is a member of the House who can deny that it is quite convenient to have the clerk 1 s office that close to the House. Quite convenient.

We have no desire to see that upset or to kick out the cler, although I hasten to point out, ~!r. Speaker, that accomodatian of the meubers of the House ranks before acco::r:odation of the clerk, I do not think anybody can dispute that either, although the clerk must be accomodated. The ~embers of the House come first. The clerk is there to se~;e the members of the House. ~lot vice versa. We are not asking for any elaborate offices or anything else. All ue are asking far is a room that ~e can use in common, the four of us, adj~cent to the Chamber. That is all.

Nothing more than that. ~lathing more than the members t.·ho sit with the Government have. Not one thing more than the members who sit with the Opposition have. And it is not just one person asking for it us it uas last year, although. f:{,Y

Harch::4, 1970 TApe 195 Pnge 5 GC the :::e::rber for Labrndor SouS-h t-:ns --or LnbrGdor \.Jest "W[JS mildly ccnccrned ;-Jith with tht! S:JDe t::8tter lt1st yewr. Not just one person asking for it :1:1ynore. .A.nd it rr,ust be .:1djev::ent to the House tc be of ;my value, but what do '.JC r,ct vhcn we ask for it. It has been raised, 1 believe, Hr. Spcnker, every single day since this House opened by the r:Icmbc.r for Bonnvista South, the Ci.:::t:ber for St. John's Yiest • by myself, for the member for St. Barbcs South, as the mc;nber for LabraCor \{est. The matter hns been raised.

On nost of those occasions, the Din:!.stc:r of Public h'orkd has been out of the Cha2~er and the bon. the Prc;::;ier lBs ,:b;wys sn"id the ;:;:;.tt;:;r should be referred to the Ed.nister. He i~ out of tlw Chamber, That is what happened on Y"stcrday nnd the c!ay before. The minister was not in the Chnnbcr at the tir.:e, Could not he nnst.:crcd, ;;.,nd there lws not yet been an answer.

The !>!inister of Public \·iorks did contact nc, I believe, late last week, p::o!nibly on 7hursday or Friday of last week n:1d said, "! vould like to show you sonething,, and guided sc clo>mstairs to the. third floor to a.n office ncar the steps goint; up on t~hcre the nez:;.<:>nine <1rca is around the third floor. An office tlnt ww.s i;;;:;:cdiatcly o£f Uw cc:zzanine arre.a, said, "Here, look at tl"<e nice of flee 1.-;e h:wc for you and your hen. friend." It wus n nice office. !iothing wrong t.:ith the physical Gpac:c. Nothing at all. It waG large enough. No question about it.

The only thing primarily wrong with it - it was on the thil·d floor. ::.;at r.vailt1.b!C to us as a comn:on-room, i~c are not just a8king just for an office. It was on the third floor and I kno·,. as ucll as every sin;;le member ·who sits in this Eousc kno·,;s the reason for that, It is called comtempt. 'I11ut is what it is called, Nr. Speaker. /'.s well, Hr. Speaker, I might point out, there. v;crc n. couple of civil nervnnts in there, at their desks. 11lcy ucrc not l?o:rking then, because they •Jere hurriedly picking up their papers. They uc.t:e about to be evacuated.

They wcze in there doing their t>:ork nnd they Here about to be. rtoved out. Their filing cabinets ln the desks and their typc-,-rriters and the papers. So, I told the rdnister on behalf of all of all of us, to let the

!larch 4, 1970 T.:tpe 195 !'ago f1 GC civil servants to r,n ahout their tJIJr1c nnd net to bntlt~r to dis;ur 1 t11em. 1 am not in this !!ou,;e to t:~!-e the crup;:,n tiLtt f tlls· fr,rr, t''e Pintster':J tn.ble. In this !louse, I ;:m cqu:tl to the mini11tcr. I ;u on cquul mc:.h2r of it. t do not h,1" ~ w r·ttle for the :::-u:nbs thnt be dro!'s off his dc.::.k. The c_-wernnent .;::rt'l lu::; the nccortiod:ltions. The official Opposition has the accomodation, There is --- [,~,~-' ""-----------------·-----~------

pnrt:: hac> the 2r::cotr:lodntion,thc:: official Qj',;'osition hc.s the Hccor;;~oda.tlon, there is five other r.s;:'he:rr; tL1t sit nn this sic!e of tb:: HDusc uhc hr1vc beer, told, go and play dovr; on the thi:rG floor there is n·fet.• crur::bs, I hnvc no desire to disturb the Clerk 1 s Office t.<1ich is thn proper pL1cc for it, ! cnn r.ec the v,1luc of h.:winz tlwt out there. or tenth floor ,;:md I .;.r: sure ;;,ost r,c.;::bcrs have n fnir idcn of t,;hnt 1 0.::1 talking It is not the roo:::: thnt tll.:! :::inistc.J:" for rchobilitntion \-."Qnts to kccf tnlking about, The roor:-. t:a::; there lnst ycnr, nnd it t!<t.S unoccupied, last year, there vas sor..e steel fil:ins ca.!Jincts \dth ITL1r,:nctic tapes fro:-1 tnpc rcc:ordines pro'!Jably the sessions of the House.

T~nt is t>'h3t t;;:s in th2t !louo;c lost ycnr t-:hcn I Vo'rts Oookinr; fo:::· so::'.-~ reasornClc ,Jccor::::-,odntion. So, I spoke to ~,lr. Speaker, a:Jout it, ti"H: m:m I should contact. u;-: tdt~ the Internnl Econor:y Co;;1:ds.sion, ~' Thnt v:ns fine. Ancl I helicve he or I m: both of us ns ':.'ell, discussed th2 F"_cttter with the dcputy-.-min:!.stcr Cf Pttblic 1-iorks.

Thnt ;,:ns smpty, :;ot occcrpicd ty <1nyhody, not~ used for storage of mnr;nc.tic tapes. fiir, it ~;o.s a lozicnl thinr; to do, store the tapes clscdwri:!, nnd , usc this room fer the ner:;bcr for L:.tbrnr:or 1.\':::;;t and ~yo~elf, the only t>·:o of us then "·ho sat in this position, ~!r.

Speaker. ! ,Jss•J7.Cl! it ~;;;s bcinr, done, I sn: .. · the r::cn noving them out, The next the rr:cn t;c::e n:;vin:; tl~c t<1pcs aut, noving the. cabinets out, so I thought this ,,·;1o; very gcocl, >:c crrc r,o:!.nr; to ~:;•~t ;;.cco;;;;r.~oJntion 1 it is very decent of them, The nc.:~t thir,r; I hco.rd it ;.·;:.:; not r;oln; to be ;:vn.ilablc. L'hat: ~a·cn: they going to do t.:ith it? There HnS <171 ur;;cnt need had cone up 1 vc.~ry urr;cnt.: 1 could not be done ~dthout. could not be ucwd for nny other purpose.

A vury urgent: need thcr had to hnvc n.n office for the hon. t:1c Rinistcr ·.dtll0ut Portfolio, the m::mbcr for Labrador South. I still cun not believe it. I still con not believe the ;:nH.lndty and the gnll in so.y:bg, it i::; nlr:~ost incredible, r.ucs iJt:!.yond contc:71pt. Quite contemptible, Sudd<m urt;cnt need, unJ I venture to bet ;,ir. Spcab::;r 1 that th.nt hon. 'minister has not spent one full hour in that office since then. A year ngo, I venture to bet thnt thnt hen, Qiuistcr has not opc.nt one full hour there since then.

The thing vas refurbinhcd, n~furnishct!, repainted, rccurpcted, I do not ltno·"' hm: r:;uch it cost 1 I have no idea, ~.NEAJ:J..£...... \:.Jhut colour VGS the carpet? 1:!?::1-TE.LL~ Oh 1 flushy __ ·red. Some~ black in it I think, nuy be I nn Prong. ~HILL: A little purple. Sor,;ethinc; like your shirt. !1:?.-CPf:.S_!J~T.f.: lJpychodclic psychodeH.c, l·:tLl,~:LLi:.. Urzent nccC fm: the minister vitbout l'ortfol.io who hnd just recently bccowc, succeeded to that .r:,rc:-.1: office of being n Uini;;;tcr Without ~ortfolio, Hy rtl

han, friend the senior member for Harbour Hain, hns been a p$inistcr \t/ithout ~ortfolio for I believe, approximately fourteen years in that vicinity and he has never seen fit to require an office in this building. :1R.HII.L: But the han. minister ouns his own office dovntmm. MR.VffitLS: Does not the han. minister have office space available with the company that he works with? ~.HILLS: I do not, it would be most unethical for me to use the office space. !1R.WF.LLS: !-tr. Speaker. W"ill forgive ::1e for lau~hing, chuckUng at it, That is almost unbelievable too ~r. Speaker.

I too, as Your Honour mny recall held that esteem office of ~inister 'Without ~ortfolio. 1 did not find it necessary to have an office, Did not ask for oue, it was not necessnry, the Bouse \-Jns in session I could use the offices next door right behind the hen. gentleman just a few feet away from hi~. All sorts of accommodation ovo.ilnble. I do not think there is any member in thL:; House ~!r. Spent:er, -..•ho doubts the pronosition that that han. minister has no need -.Jhntsoever for that office. :;obody believes that he does. Hobody anj......,here bel1cves that he docs, not even tl1e minir.ter hinself.

There is no doubt o.bout the reason for it. Jitterncss ;md vint!ictive:1ess is the explanation for it. !iot on the purt of the han. mi.n:ister':. nnrt I t:ould nDt for a moment nccuse him of thnt.

I have never <;c_en :1::.y nf it from hi.r:~, and I do not exnect that I ever will, But I do s:ty, .:md I rece,,t th:1t he hnl'l not spent in !'lY opinton, one full hour in a year in that office. r:ver since tile J:cusc t'I'Cncd nnd t!e nrc no-.r into our second t:eek of nctunl '-mrk it o;1cr;ed F·:l:'nwry lf:th. '.'e nrc into our second ued~ of actual t:ork. of this House I ;1.:-!Vo..~ been on this floor :md t:w t:ent:1 floor every single ;;JOtnlng simcc the House uas aocncd.

I come into t 11C ~1ulldinr, <~round about 9,15 a.n. or 9.30 a. usually t t.•ork here nt the desk, usu,oll;t. ~!R.:If:_!..h§:.: And I have yet to s.2e the ::::lnlstcr in t:Jat office. And I ~ave yet to speak -.lith anybody else v'1o '1as .;;cc:~ the :11inister in that office. That ~1r. Speaker it gets beyond coM.enpt, 11orders on the criminnl, ceYtainly .1n incredible abuse, of public power .nnd office, .!.n incredible :tblJSe :md ~;~aste of ;"JUblic funds, nn-·ubbelievabl eanf~~pE, I have not yet seen the c!oor oren in thnt: office t:hi.;; ye:1r.

I have never sec.n hit~ there morninr, or <lftern<:~an, :m..HIL~ You do not corr.e curly enough, ~J!ELLS: A recent observatior.El :indicate .'~r. Speaker, thnt in the last fivcfor six dayR the bon. minister has tu~en to hanginr; :;is coat in that office when he comes i in at three o'clock., or shortly before three. Hut 1: one is Hatchful one can always

sec toe n:,out nunctc::- cf six the l;:;n. ninist:cr ·,;ill ;;o out und u~st~irs nnd pot his co.1:: _,,:<;; put it in the pnvcrnn:::nt 1 s co:7;-.on roar, ;;o thwt be docs r.ot ho.\·c to waste t the time after six o' clod· gn;',_r;;:; u;:: to the offi,ce tmd pcttinr, it, One is \.'atchful, one cnr. see that too. I~ t!--,;:t tolu~ab1c?

Is this House, cnn this Hous:::o ren.lly should not be S'.J cont:cc::tuous of the r..cr::~crs Hho sit here ;:t the. r::orrJ::nt, thei.t turn say not be too fn.:: c:r..·.:1y, even if it is not th2 nczt time, end I expect it will be, it nay not be too far 2:.-:;::.y ·,.:ith, a;;d Ln:r;hir:g 2t ;mC sni6:c;rins <It, The;: should not be too conten?tiblc, Hr.

Sp;;nb:.r, and "lhould not consider the thin?"s, the :r.Dttcr ;;e li;:,htly, n:v:! consider it a so1!rte of rs:~u::;cr.1cn:: Hhich thc.y obviously do. of th8t office, pcrha)ls that: Ls •,:;1!' he is never there, his conscience will not nllov hio to do it. ?cr!L:tj:>S so, I hnvc n hi~h rcr,nrd for the n-0n pcrsonnlly and I ntst udmit thnt frankly. Hr. Speaker, but perhaps thilt is t;l;y the hon. r.1inist:er does not ever so in that off:.cc. I cxrcct he hn;, r,ot e1 conscience nnd he cnn not fncc it. lightly.

It is their rir;hts. rec.-1use if t..'C a:-0 not to discrininnte, if all ncx1?crs are to be e1;tLll before thi.s !louse :~r. Spcni.er, it is their own rights they nrc playing t-.:ith nnd tlE:ir tircnns and theL; laughter r:.ay soon co;r:e back to he.uat thct-~ one of those Jays in the not too fa-r distant future. It is a contempt ~-!r. SpccJ:er, not only of the r;:H:~;;;he:rs of this House but th2. people. ;..<-lDn they represent I, as the r:H:;;-;:Jcr for Eu;.:.bcr East represent the people for Humber East the sume with ny han. friend St. john's t'est, and Tionavista South, and St. Barbe's l\orth, St.

Barbe South, \..'hen the ninistcr cf Sodt~l Services o.nci !Zclwbilitation laughs and snickers and says the:re is a roo::-: out there ;;hich he refers to the ncn' s toilct-:::room he is snyins that to t?-,c people of those distt'icts, and I hasten to \<.'D.L"l1 him not to forget it. ~SLNE.:,W.Y: The hon. ;;-;cnber should !n·v'2: stn.yeJ on this side of the House Hhere he had all the fncilitics .t:e :.n UD\--,' looHng for.

EILliELLS: :_r nbo ho.d princ-iple, tint is what brings n:e over here. l-t!t.m:~: In r::y opinion it is principle, nnd it brings r;1c. o';cr here, but it does not in uny ;;•ay dininish DJ' rights as a u;:;;:::Jer of this House, or the rights of any other hon. nc;;:!::ler here. Incredible contC:l)lt of tile ?Caple nnd the members of this

House and the people of this Province and tlle House as a whole,:iot just the four members I an talking about but the linuse as a vholc. !t is not new that kind of contempt and it is not the only instance nf it, tle saw it here last night during the time when t~1e Premier •,.;a!) ;,pco.king .1.nd he told his little joke, and he turned around to this side of the House and offered his posterior and said here bite. Contempt, that is disgusting ~lr. Speaker, it is almost unbelievable, that the Premier of this Province ~·ho should be accorded respect has sunk so lo-:.r perhaps though ~!r.

Speaker, it vns the :nest intelligent thing we have seen all nieht. ~ffi. SPEAKER (~~oel) : The 'non. wenb01r is :-:at supposed co refer to any other debate when he is speaking. ~ffi..HELLS: I was not re.ferri:lg to debate '<!r. Spea!:er, but I will not refer to vhat i.'ent on last nisht agair., it speaks for itself n.nU mnkes noise for itself. The Prenier keeps sayin~ I hate him, I, in p~rticularly my han. friend for St. John's l~est, we hate him, nothing could be. further fran the truth, it is totally untrue.

I accord to the Pre:r:ier, every c:<rression of gratitude, that he is due by the people of this Province and I have no hesitation t-.rhatsoevcr in saying it is substantial, very substantial, I could only hope ::;,at before I die I have r:tade a contribution to this Province the equnl of that han. gentleman. I do not deny that. I do not ex?ect too. ! a'TI honest about it. Jut I also hope that I never sinkdo the de?ths chat he sunl• either, :.rr. Speaker, in doing so, I give hio the credit he is due and I respect and admire the efforts he has made, and the hon, gentleman's sincerity on occasions.

One can not help but do it if one is going to be honest. ~!r. Speaker, and I do that. I r:~eant •.;h.:J.t I said, on the first speech I made in this House and I repeat it agab now: "I did not get elected to this House on my merits a~onc. ! have no illusions about that, none at all'.' The Premier trotting out in his speec!!. the other day did not bother me in the slightest Hr. Speaker, that is a fact ! am certain of. t,ihat I do not i<now is the degree. I do not knot.t how rr:uch I earn on :ny mm or hatJ ::mch or tvhat proportion ca.'ne fran the fact that I was running for the iJnrty heaCed. ~y the i're:aier.

But I have no illusion that I could not have ·.;on the seat running as an Independent. ! have no doubt:s about that and I say it honestly. But Mr. Speaker, today is a different: question. H lot has passed under t::he bridge since then. Oh, yes, t::he hen. minister does not knm; r:mch about the Humber East District Association to ask that f!llestion.

hn.ving tc u;;e thG tir20. of this Fou;:;c tn nsl'. for;:; busL: courtesy, basic that :Oe d0e:s not hntc r::e either, but conclusion.

I would like to th~nk tlH t he did not. ! \;ouJ J not like to think that di!'ferenccs o'f: o~iniun on polic!.es nnG coli.tics, no r::J.ttcr how deeply one is im•olv.::.C, coult! engender hate n::1cncst any two :ocn. l do not think it should. f:nd I c1.n ·assuTc this iiouse t\n;: it does not on rr.y cart, So 1 have to look for SDFC t:xnlonJ.tion as to t.:hy 1 h;:.vc. to stnncl hoo:forc Your Honour today and sa.y this. \·:c tn:c the only four r;-,c;;~~c:rs here, vith eJ hon. friend fre>1:7l Labrador t:est, ~;ho do not h3vc <Jccoc:7.odntions.

Ts there uny t:ny in !1eavcn's r.ame that no':c! say, thD.t ls okay, Th:'.t ::Ls the uwy i.t should be? And then look in the mirror nt hims,;lf? Ccn he do that? I do not think so '·~r, Snc11.ker, I do not think so. The n:cmber for Bonnvista ~;OJ;"th stood in thl.;::; Fouse a fc,,· dnys nco -he :is ill vith the flu and is still ill t.:ith the flu, nnd wos ill the cinv he vqs in b~re. And he said. '<I hwve teen n r.c:nb2r for this House fo::: fmn:tecn and ,1. hnlf venrs, and 1 v:alk in here tod<1y, and I h<cVe no place to hang t7N hut, no nl:J.ce to spcnk to ar:vhody, no olace to r.:akc. a phorH~ call.

Thnt is courtesy - he kne·,; of the office on th8 third floor, The EoCJSC is on the ninth floor, That b cwn:tesy :-tr. Speaker, that is decency. A loy::1l colleur;ue of tbe Prernier for fourteen years, treated that way. Hm-1 or r.;hat can be said in justification of that'? I cannot see anything, See it for n noo;::nt. The Minister -without Portfolio, n pleasnnt a man as he nuy be, needs that office like I need an igloo with the northpolc. Perhaps he has been used as a umm) I do not knot-·, I do not know. All I can do is guess.

Then; har; been no reasonable logicttl exPlanation whatsoever - all I can do is look at the facts 2.nd r,uess. I ar.1 not sure how that hon. ~1inistcr can face the House - how he can face the r,:enbers in these circumstunces, How any nce:;Jber opposite ::an face the ;;,er.be;;s and say, that is okay, that is the •,:ay it should be. The rr,cr;;ber for Bonavista North ;.:ho ha:; been a me::Jber for fourteen and a lwlf years, an old man, uho has made hls contribution to -public life in this Ih:ovincc. That is oki'.y for him ~ that is the wav he should he treated.

Can any c.ember slt:tinj: opposite 5i1J that? 1 do not believe )~r. Speaker, I do

!>!arch 4, 1970 Taoe J:Jl97 Page 2 not believe they do say that, 1 honestly believe they think differently. 1 know every· sin~tle one of them rather t.Jell. and 1 do not think that ill of them. So I have to find an explanaticn elsewhere. The onlv thing that ! can think that is the Pre~ier's decision- that is all 1 can think. ! cannot accord that kind of feeling to most of those hon. gentlemen sittin~ ooposite. 1 kno~ them too well. I know the' kind of men they are, and I cannot assi~n to the~ that kind of thought, including the han. ~inister without Portfolio. Perhaps it is right.

Perhaps that is the wav they do things. But my opinion is no- I may be wrong in that. Perhaps ~r. Speaker, they will be ~en enou~h to support this Resolution. I cannot see that thev can do less. If they have any respect for decency and fair play, If they have anv rcsnect for ~onesty, or respect for this House, or resnect for the members of th:i.s House. 1 do not see how they could do anything less than support the Resolution. Supnortinc; this ~otion ~r.

Speaker, wi 1 1 not br!ng~ahout the no~.mfall of the Government - it is not a motion of confidence in the Government - it has nothtn~ to do with confidence in the Government. All it is \lr. Soeaker, is a Motion based on fai..r nlay and decency. I a.•;k nothin~ more, and 1 assure han. memhers that votintJ: for this ~otion by them -..:ill not brine on from myself or any hon. memher who sits here - any great guffa;..;s of ve heat you, or ;..;e got t-hat IJe vnnted. All we ask for Mr. Sneaker, is decencv and fair play.

And if those hon. memhers are the decent honest men that 1 personally thin~ mnst of them are, if they are, they cannot but su~port the Resolt;en. ~~d I ask for this support. Hm:. J. R. CHA_LKEi\ (Xini!'tter of Public Works): ,'ir. Soeaker, in reply to the hon. member for Corner Brook East, t~uf:lber Faiit - a fey days ago ! was requested, my d.e?artment '.Jas requested to fi:ld snace for the han. £r,entlemen for Corner Brook East, St. John's, Bonavista ~1orth and St. Barbe South, They requested. on the ninth or tenth floor, knowing quite well, !-fr. Speaker, that no such snace is available.

I did find them cor:-,."'7\odious :tccom:nodation on the third floor, much larger than I found for the hon. memher for Corner Brook East last year. Humber East (well it is not too far off). And ! do not knew if he disliked it, he told the other da~ that he has never used it - ~ell that was a loss of ~onev. :ill., ;«:LLS: there? MR, CHALKER: Was it not a wa~:~te of money to have the Government put that office And in :he sar.1€ office, I made another office. ~1r. Speaker, for )J/, 6 -~-----~----

~Larch 4, 1970 Tao:::. iil97 Pnge 3 it I nssuc,u, I could c'!ed: tnto th,-;t nnvho;,; l>lr, Snenkcr. 3ut 1-:os iob as 1 say Sir, is to find mJ po.ssihle f;0Dc~ acco;;ru::;dut!nn. And the ncc.o::::::;odntion that t>h:: have found in this buildins on the third floor t>:as used in· t!'-tc Bond sc::tion of the I'epnrtrr:.cnt of Finnnco., vho I asked the ho::;, f~iniste.r tony left if he ,,:ould vncate it for the. hon. f:Cntlcr::an to use as a Co::::1ons F.oom, nnd he did so. I took t:-;e bon. ne.nbc:r fro•··• Hmr};cr East, and the ho8. r:x:r.:l::cr for St. Barbe not Sout!1, rcvie-.;cd it, nnd t!r.

Speaker, they ~ere inside th0t office three minutes before they condc:nncd it. As a rr:.sttcr of fact, ns r:1:: lwn. friend I thought nt the time, he 1-:;ts prncticnll,. c ninistcr- he r:r:ve orCcrs tn the then Civil Ser-vants not to nove it. StO'-' uhcre they wen:_ ~ thev htl.d nc. nuthority to do th:-Jt, but I took th1t ns "rr.atter- r::orc er lc.s~ <15 :t iokc. Em,·cver, ~-lr. Spsaker, the only accor;:;odation tl'.nt i-:e hsvc nvttilG'ble in tl-:is tuildi::p: that is close snd n.vuUable to this Eon. Hou.s0, is on tbe thi.rd fitoor.

It is not a small the hon. gcntlc.nt.n have, 2.nd I a::J qn:ite sur~ Sir that if the? usc it, they '-'ill find it co<.,fortn::lc ar:d not too fnr distar:t. Evr:rvhndy voulci like to hc.ve an office }~t'. Spcsker, dose to the Eow;c of Asse~bly, that is only normal. th<.:.rr: possible n minute a>1d a h,:tlf Sir, by elevator to go to that office from ns none is availnble. I nm sorry, but that is the case. ~:r. Spc;;.ker, the off:l.cc in the corner is rn:escntlv occupied, l<r. S'::lenk~;r, I t>:ould like to s.;w a few words in support of this Resolution.

TI:cre hG:s been .:1 gn:nt deal of talk nbout accor:r;;odation, to r::y right. Rut I sub~,1it !'1r. Speaker, tha-t the n;:r,bcrs on the Government side of the Eouse, have cor:1nlctclv lost sight of onr:. vcXi' £um!G~cnti1l nrinciple involved in this issue. for so0,t: rcnson ho;~. F.;3.::-,bcrs hilve co~e to th>'l conclusion, that this floor, anJ the next floor nrc part of the loovcrnnc~nt nC:dnistration - th.:1t this is 2. Governr.cnt building - nothing could l:e further fron the truth flr. Speaker. Th:!..s floor and the next floor ;;c.lonr:. to the Eou;-;c of Assembly and no one else, bur: no one cl;;;;.

Einisters ar:c: ju~;t ;1s su'bcc.rv1ent to the House :N?

~arch 4, 1970 Tape 11197 Pas:e 4 of Assembly as is any other member - they ~et no sned.al rights the minute they walk to that door ~r. Sneaker. And what 1 say to han. ~embers is this - that this House does not have the right - if we are ~oing to relv on the ~reat tradition that has been established in the ~!other of Parliament - if we are going to rely on the nrecedencethat has been established in Hestminister, then the issue is not debatable. ~o han. ~inister of the Crow~ has the ris:ht to take precedence oVer any han. member of this House insofar as the area that belon~s to this House is concerned.

And that office up there belongs to this House, just as much as the center of this floor, just as much. '.:e are all equalled the ~inute ve come within the shadows and the confines of the House of Assembly, and that office up there is. And the hen. member for Humber East, and St. John's West, and the other hon. members are ecualled within this House. There has been so~e suggestion ~r. Speaker, that ~inisters vithout Pottfolio deserve some special treatment, sene SPecial care, but again it is a vel! established fact !-!r. Speaker, that hon. Ministers '\.l'ithout ?ortfolio are not administrators.

They do not administer de?artments, they are not part of administrative process of Governr.1ent. ! do not '\.l'ant to get into the practice of quotin~ from all sorts of authorities, but we might as well get clear the position of hon. ~finisters without Portfolio once and for all. I would refer hen. members to Robert \facGrep_or Dat.·son's book, "The Government of Canada" where he deals t.~ith the three types of ~·!lnisters who go to make U? a Cabinet within Canada, or within the l!nited Kim::dom.

H-e said, ··a third small group and one ...,hich has been steadily growing smaller" (he has not been around here) made up of ~!inisters without Portfolio, those who are in the Cabinet, but who have no department to administer, the modern Cabinet almost always contains at least one nember in his~· class who is usually the leader and spokesman of the Gaverr~ent in the Senate (that refers to Ottawa) and one or two others ~ho may for a variety of reasons be si~ilarly honoured. A ~inister for example may not have sufficient ability to warrant giving him a portfolio.

Yet his presence in the Cabinet may provide desire -orovir.cial or sectional representation. He may ?e unusually able and expe:ienccd, but no longe~ capable of needing the heavy demand of departmental work. Ee may be very confident, yet wishing nothing nore than to sit in the seats of the mightv and be available for special ministerial duties whenever needed''. ~-!r. Speaker, I do not need

Jw March 4, 1970 Tape fil97 :reEJcl this eesc;crtation or t>tatcm2nt of facts from ~lr. Dn...,son to :onvince this ho~l. House tha;; :-.Unistcrs td.thout Por::.folio are net ,1drdni.str,::;tors - that they have nothinr; to nd:dnister. But vc cannot, no r,:etter hc11 ¥2 approach this get back to the funda.ncntnl Principle that this House of Asser::bly :i.s erected :md built and t:'£lintaincd for the conve.niencc of hen. ccnbro:r:s ns r:Jcmhcrs of the House of As.senbly. It r:;ight bE vct-y rcp,rettable H so:::-2 da't the Clerk would hnve to move off thi:> floor.

It l7light be vc17 reRrett::>.hlc if the Editor and his stn:Yf of Hansard would have tc move off this floor, Rut there c.nn be no doubt at nll, no doubt at <'ill, that if the needs of elected !7ICcbcrs of this hen. House clictctc thnt thcv rrn:st hcvc .accor..:nodo.ticn on this floor, then the prindp}e is so louC: <:<nd so clearly and so 1cmr, est.s.hlishcd, that I for the life of rr,c cannot sec ho\.J this co11ld he debatable?

Could you :~nnt.inc the r,rcat Sir Hinston Churchill tolerating a situ3tion like this in the Eou;,c of Cor:rrnons? l·Jhy did right afte:r the war, de:::a.n2 that the first govcrnnc.nt expenditure, th<:>t hac! to be r,~a.de in Great Br!..tain that took pdority over cveryt1d.ng Usc, but eve1·ything, was the cstablish:::cnt of o.ccorr_cwdntion for every hvn. mcc:ll:·er of the House of Comnons - v;ithi.n the confinc.!J of the E0use. of Co!"!1;;\ons, not o.cros.s the street, not dow-n in the bc.scccnt, but within the confines of thnt c.rent institution.

Nov; if -;,;e arc t::oing to rely on the !-:other of Parliar. ..... nt nnd the great precedence that hnd been estahlisheti in l,\ostministcr, Vr. Speaker - it is a t'\.;o-;;ay street. It cannot be turned on one day to suit government's purpose, and turned off the next vhen it does not. A;1ci I sav that in support not sir:->?lY fo:r the convenience of the hon. mcDher fo:- l!u;!'.ber East or his 2i~sociztes. Ee has outlined the inconvenience and the insult to his constituents, and the insult to the voting public of ~-e\.:foundland. ::e has done that very vcll.

But over and nbove o.ll thnt, is thin other fundament::l nrinc:!.ple - an atter.:pt to take a'i.JilY fn:Fn the peoplc 1s ebctcd reorcsentntivcs, a rif;ht that they have co stuy within the confines of this floor, this Resolution. For that rcaso:1. ! support

Harch 4th, 1970 Tape 198 Pk - 1 HON. STE?HEN A. ~lEARY: (:<DIS'i'ER OF DtPAPTl'E;iT OF HJ.LFAf:E) >rr. Speaker, we have all paid very strict attention to the debate so far. /,ncl how the hon. members on the other side of the Hnuse · .. ;Lo h:.we spoken on this debnte so far has tried to ttake martyrs out of themselves. •tr. Speaker, if they want to make martyrs out of themselves, I am afraid that they are ~oing to have to pick a more serious issue, than looking for the office that suits them. :;ot the office, ~lr.

Speaker, that suits the ~Unistcr of Public iJorks, or the em:ineers in his departr:ent, or the advisot'S of his dcpartr1ent, but the office space. that suits the hon. ministet's. ~S.. C. Y.l:LLS: :;ow t.'e are hear in;; something. :m. NEA!tY: ;:ow, I ask you ::r. Spflaker, T ask you in all honesty to tell me, and I know Your Honour can ans~1er this question, but these very same hon. nembers were elected to sit on thi'3 side of the 1-:ousc. :-:ow uc vu::re told veRterda~·, !-tr.

Speaker, by the !mn. the Prernier. and I think ve all knew it any-way, that one han. ~cnt!ernn t~at cros~ed the !'ouse three ti~es in less than tuo years. ~ow, Your Honour, •,:hat do you do in a case like this? W'here do you out the han. member? I mean the ne:..:t th!.nc, ~1r. S!"eaker, maybe the hon. yentleman should be on roller s'ka~e:s-~· h~-bas !:leen ?Oing hack and forth so often. :Cut, !'r.

S?caker I ask you, if the two hon. gentl>?r.an that are sented together al:r.ost directly in front of r:e now decide to split up, ant! the:1 they cor.e buck to the :.rinister of Puhlic i.JC!rks, and they uant anoc!-ter office. PRE~~t£R SPwA.LL:-lD0_!2_: They have not split up yet, so they a:-e not asking yet. \Ihen they do split up, :•r. Speaker, and I have no doubt the day of reckoning is not teo far away, and then the hon. r.:e~ber for St. Bnrbe South, he will be loo:-.ing for n orivate Com:wn Room, and the !'Jon. re::1ber for St.

John's \·:'est >-.'ill ~Jant his ot.Tl Co:::ruon Room, and the hon. r:e~ber for Eu::1ber r:ast will want his ovn Common Room,, the hon. member for Labrador ~-:est is a little bit more considerate :.rr. Speaker, he seems to be at least half pleased with his office on the third floor. But, ~·!r. Speaker. I uant to drav to the i'lttention of the hon. r::enbcrs, that in the House of Commons in ntta•-"a, they also have limited space, And !-~inisters, ~r. Speaker, not only have to go seven and ei£ht, and nine floors to )!et to their offices. And Opposition members have to do the sa:::e thin.t:.

But they have to wal~ -right across the prounds in front of Parli:lr:ent 3uilding, Yr. Speaker, and ~o to a building .~on the opposite side of the !-:oust> of Parlianent. And t 11ould venture to say, :lr. Speaker, that there is scarcely a Province of Canada that does not have /:r'7o

~·:.s:rch 4th. 1970 Tnpe 198 PK - 2 And r..y hon. nnr. le<ttned frinvl th~;:re: from ;xg_. HICf:l·tA.::: 011: no, I only listened. 1 do not kno;..·, if he hns ever hcu: the privilepc Your Honour to attend n Session of tht>. House of Corm:;cns i1~ f:n:;lund. but, I have been there on severrcl occasio;;:s, AnG ;:;y hen. ;mC len.1.'11ed friend, )'·!r.

Speaker, J;d.pht be interested to knvv:, that of all the r::c:n?c;cf' of the: Hcuse of J\:n:linccnt tn fnp:land c:a.rr.e to the Pousc en the snr;c day, that there Kould r;o~ be roo:7 enotwh to nccorr.,;;odate them in t~H~ House: of P:nlio.r:ent, in the Chur::bcr, In the Ch.:ur,!;c:r, ~'r. Speaker, not alone in s Co~non Roan:. oh: yes, tl:cy 2Ccorrr.-Odi1tC tn a Cor.;;;;on Foon. VR. !\EAF.Y: They cannot 'Jc nccor.:r":Oc!iJ.t2d either in Cor.r;on !loons or in the Chaml::er itself, ~tr. S?eaker. tct r::c correct, they cnr:not ln'thc Chn.r;;~cr, but in the Corr::con Roop they can. So, 1 t:ould o;ur,pcst, Hr.

Sncakr:r, thr.t the \Jon. ~Gr.!becs are net twin~": to drun rJp vs!'y r.:ucl; ~;yr,:pathy fron their constituents en thQ~C issues. I ar:1 sure :tr. Spec;k,::r that they t.Hc. pnticntly ,,.aitinr; for thei;:- rcprcser.tative to start dtscussior-.s core press in;::: m::.tte:·s in thts l:ouse, than trying to get the:ir c:.,'TI separate Cor.s:Ion Room. YR. HELLS: Ve l:nm.: one. nc.nber who docs not hilvc u conscience. H? ..

CROSBIE: It is nh•ays n treat to hear '' dissertation ml Pa.rliaccnt History, hy tbe hon. the l<inistcr of Social Services '~ho needs to be rchabtla.ted, It is c.l~,>;nys a _f!reat treat and pleasure to hear bin on thcs2 subjects. ,\nd the hon. r::inistcr certainly dispb.ys hi::; arrogance.~ und the. nrror,rmcco of his colleagues or sm::c of then, vhen he snys, that r.e1:1bcrs of this i>ousc vho ucrc elected to serve in this House of Asscv};ly on bchnlf of the rcoplc of Ke\Jfoundland should horrified. He ~-'.1-S flabcrpasted. I:e ><aS dur::b founded, he \7.:\s bamboozled.

He practically dropped Fith the shock, ;.;hen he 1lenrd that t~cr,,bc:rs of this Eon. House Y-'ould not nccept, \.;hatcvcr cx:u:m:-,y spuce, the hon, }linistcr of Public Korks choose to offer to 1:·e"G1bcrs of tf:is Eouso. Tb~ ho:1. IFCtr.hcr for 1lurin, J-:r. Speaker, has put his .P11

~!arch 4th. 1970 Tape 196 PK - J thumb right on the issue. 'ihat thLc; floor and the tenth floor of this Confederation Buildinr, do not belom: to the Govermr:ent at all. It belon?!'i to the House of Assen;bly. So one trust a,c;!{ the r;uestion, how did the han. t·inister t,;ithout portfolio the ~ember for Labrador South, ho~ did he r,et this space on the tenth floor of this buildin~? Was it given to him by the Speaker, or the Internal Economy, the Economy Commission? \>Tho gave him the space? ~lho authorized him to have the space?

Vfuo showed such contewpt for the privileres, the ~emhers of this House, as to authorize the hon. l!inister to take that space, h~ being n. member a r::embe-r of the Executive Council? t!r. Speaker, if the han. minsiter t:ithout portfolio needs space in this buildinR, which we seriously doubt, his colleague the hen. senior minister froo"Harhour ~!ain, not havinr. had it for the last fifteen vears, and that han. ninister hire.self had an office space in the city.

If he realLy neeJs it, why does not the hon. minister take the office space on the third floor, that the han. ninister of Public t!orks offered, or the space in the ler,islativc library that was prepared for my colleague from l!ut1ber East last yenr. }h: does not need to be on the tenth floo-r with any office ::;pace, :-'r. Speaker, He has a Corr:-mon Room available 1 ~'r. Speaker. HR. CROSBIE: There is no need.

Ee is in that space for one reason only, to fulfill the spite of one r;an, who was r\etcrmineJ last year that the han. ~ember for Humber East '>tas not going to have office space any;.1here near the 1!ouse of Asser:bly. The han. t:ember for Labrador South, ?·~r. Speaker, '>las appointed to the Cabinet as ~!inister ~.tithout Portfolio in the sur~rner of !969, when this House t.1et last winter, six months later he had no office in the tenth floor of this building. But, '>:hen our colleague the menber for Humbe-r r:ast requested Sfll!CC - what haopened?

Overnight the tapes were noved out of this office on the tenth floor, and the hen. ~~insiter ~;as noved in. ::ow, the hon. t::ir.siter knows in his own heart, mind that he does not want that space. :hat he does r,ot need that s;-ace. That he is occupyin~ that soace for one reason cnl:;, to keep t!le hen. men1ber for Eurr.ber East and his colleague from having office space m>:nr thir; Ch.Jrnber. ~·~. :;-ELLS: That is conte:r1pt. J<R.

CROSBIE: Yes, toe repudiate t:.l-".e offer, the r:easley offer, the cruniny offer from hen. ::1lnister of ?wblic r.:orks for office space. .'.rrogance on his part to offer it down there. It is arrogance on part of the Covern:::-ent ::r. Speaker, to have this issue even createJ or kept alive. 7-..:enty-one years in ;::over, creates arrogrance. f'7 2

~·arch 4th. 19·70 rr - 4 And t.•e 1wve seen it ir: this session i:r, tb:: question periot~. The :Hro:::-;.mt· ;,:ay refusing fou:" of the tr.c::-~cn of this hon. l~ous2 of prcve-ntinr; tf:c;n fro~ having wpncc near tb:: lic-:;se, nenr thic Char.,Cn:::r. !1xror;ancc i;~ r:hc sottcr r>f setting hours to this !louse to n:oet, stnrtin; ;:;ftu·noon tnvl e.venlr.g, rir.:ht frvn the st;ut of proposed fe-r private J~c.;:;;Jcrs day last "-'c.ck. Arro;:a.r;cc, everyvi":cre you look, n.rrogance. ).rTOFilDCC, :trrogance. Yr.

Srv::Gkcr, mctbers of this Eons<:: :.c-a·c entitle':.! to have ;; roar.\ where thsy cnn do rcscn.rch, 1.;Lerc t:1ey can r,o nnd hnvc .;1 bre:1k. vlwrc they can put their :;tntutc.s or the;:!.r report;; or FhG.tev,~r thcv nrc ~orkinr on at the tlOrr,cnt, nnd still be al"1C: to listen to th~ Cehata.s in this Chnuher. So, if they ,<re planning to speo.k, or ncr.,! to spe;;k they can rush in, for only ~ fm.; !;;econds away. The officinl O;,position's Office L;s it. Tb:! Govcrn~Knt Cm:::n:on Room haG it.

T!v; fcur :indi~?CP..(knt L!bcrDl r.err,:.crs do not have it. !:o-:: docs the nember from Our coat and our rubb0rs 1 to leave our rubbers. h'c are. hc::e 1 :-:r. Spev..kcr, six hours n rh;, all aft'2-;:noon and all evening, and ve have to prepGl'f.! ior the next dn:.ls session. t·:e cannot do nny of that here because ':e havl.!. no space here to do it in. So'"' there -were ;;t lot of authorities quoted in this hon. !louse in a recent debate, on the Question Period, for example, and on Cabine-t responsibilities and all the rest of it, vhat ocnple learned in che art of Political Science say.

Here is !kGrcpor D;n-:son, "'ho was cited earlier in this debate,_ l-lr. Speaker. So, ! have no Chinese authorities, but this is a Can;.Hiian one, Here he says: ""ihc House of Cor:ttnons ·.:ill al~ost invaribly give its consent to all the r::c.0sures which the Cabinet has o;ubmitted but in the process it ezct:c.ises t-:h<tt is easily one of its major functions, nt;rr,ely 1 criticism." Then he goes on to what private mmnbers should do - " ••• a vital aspect of the critical function of the House of Cor:1mons is its pouer of general su?ervision.

The House nsks the Hinisters inter<.linahlc questions, it conducts investigations into the administration of the deoo.rt1r.ents, it draus out the activities of the Govcrneent into the light of publicity, it scrutinizes the finuncial statr."n2nts npd proposed tax expenditures, it checks, to a limited dcgrc.e, depart:~ental orders and Orden; in CCJuncil ••..•. ,P;and so on.

March 4, 1970 Tape 198 PK-5 All the functions of the House of Assemhly, ~fr. Speaker, in modern times, have devolved uoon the Opposition -because under our Party System, naturally, the menbers of a Government Party are not goin_g to spend their time in the House of Assem!Jly or the House of Commons, in scrutinizing the estimates, scrutinizing the public accounts, scrutinizin~ the legislation - they do not want to criticize the government even if they do come across something. The vhole function of Houses of Assembly and !!ouses of Cornmons, Mr.

Speaker, has devolved, in modern davs, in political nartv oolitics, on to the Onposition: and thev should be at least given the haslc reouirements so that they can try to nttemot to do their job. And one of these reryuirements is a nrooer office, n~ar the House of Assembly, •.there they can work, when they are not involved in a dehate them­ selves, where they can keen a tuned to the hosiness that is -~oin~ on in the House and be ready for votes and the re~t of it.

The hon. the ?remier, a nh.ht or so ae:o, said at one noint that when he was looking for information on a clas!';ificaticn ::;turlv in the Deoartment of Health: "they did not dve me what ! asked for.'' "They did not dve 1:1e •••. , t,!ho did not zive him all he asked for, all the information he asl:ed for? ~!embers of the Civil Service had not f!iven it to him. So the r:1embers of the r;overn;,ent, ~!r.

Sneaker, have thousands of civil servants doin~ their job - which is ~uite ler.itimate and rieht - getting information together for members of the \.ov!';rnment and Cabinet "'inisters, for them !:o use in the debates in this House, But there is no one emoloved to do that same kind of thiM :or the rnechers ;.-ho are ~itting on this side of the Hou.o;e. And if we are to t>erform in any wnv at all our function of crlticisn, of loo~ing for the t.Jeak soots, of kecnin;;: the Government on its toes, of seeing whether the monies are being spent as t:-.ey are stmnosed to be :went, we need these facilities.

It is :-~ot just for us, ·..:e are not doing it 1ust for ourselv-es - it is our job to do that here. rre reoresent the peonle in our own districts .1nd we rcnre~ent the oeool!::! of the whole Province. Beauchesne. '-lr. Soeaker, •..;hom !·le often 'hear quoted in this House, Beauchesne, page 14: - Every member, as soon as he is cho~en. hecomes a reuresenta­ ti•Je of the whole Bodv of the Com:nons, without an·' distinction ilS to the olace 5'7'-/

)>!arch:,, 197f1 Tape 198 ?K-6 frcc. whence he is sent: to Parliament. Evcrv :r;;enbcr is c0u2.llv rcorcse::o.tative of the whole has been the cons tan:.: notion onG lRnguai:C of ?srliA.ment. Every district, vhcn elcctc;; and returned s~rve.s for tht: whole rcaln, for the end of his conim:: thither is not on.rticulnr but genc.ral, not ;r.c:rely to cclva:1t:ag.e his constituents but for the cor;;:n;::n weal.'' E.c Qllntcs blackstone, Page 16 -

Harch 4, 1970 Tape 199 Page 1 GC We use the word quote, House of Co~~ons, quote, very often without pausing to reflect upon what those ~ords mean. The word, Commons, means the people. This is the House of the people sitting on both sides of this House and on both sides-of the Speaker are representatives of every constituency in Canada. Collectively, those of us who ~eet in this Chamber represent all Canadians. That is our responsibility. That is our duty. Our rights are important, only to the extent that those rip,hts represent the rights of the people themselves.

If the traditional rights of members of this House are released, limited, or arbituarily curtailed in any way, it is not out rights and our concern. Wnat is vitally important is that in that curtailment of rights, there is a limitation of the rights of the people themselves. That is .,..hat I say, :tr. Speaker. What t submit is an issue in this debate today.

Not whether several of the members of this House should have an office or should have to throw their coats in the corridor, etc. t t is whether there is any independengein this Legislature from the dictates of an arrogant, all pot.terful executive that is being in pot.ter for twenty-one years. Tnere is space in this House of Assembly properties, this ninth and tenth floDr, for the han. member of Humber East, the hon. member of Bonavista North, from St. Barbe South, LabradOr West, to have a room to use within reach of this Chamber.

Yet, the space has been arbituarily given to a minister of the~Crown who has no depa~mental responsibilities who can be cccommodated elsewhere in this building and who arrogantly holds to that space, if not of his own volition, under instructions from somebody else, and he can satisfy us on· that point, himself, that hon. ~ember, We want, Mr. Speaker, to perform our ~ork effectively and we are going to"::tr1"·to do it, in any event, whether we get this space or not. We are not speaking just of our o>-m rights in this house.

The bon. the Minister for Social Services and Rehabilitation, hopefully, says all the hon. members, he sayg, were elected to sit on the Government side of the House. So, no matter what the decision we cac.e to later·; ~!r. Speaker, no matter what points or principle arose, the hon. ninister suggests that ~e a'?6

~-fnrch 1;, 1970 TApe 199 Page 2 GC j\ISt bzve tc take our ncCicine if we decide to lcn·.n:: the Governrr;ent side of the i-iouscc, thnt vc cun_ then be treated by the Eo usc with conter,pt. This is •.;hut he suggests. He likes~ thnt bon. r,\inistr::r likes the exercise of r:oked, unrestrained po;,•er :lS otl;c~· -ccc:bcrs of the Go\'C.rn::ncnt do.

He cnys - that hou. :r::crr.b.;;r says, " Yot.: ;-:ere elected to sit on the Governncnt side of the House. lf you chocse to cross the lioCJse on .nny point or principle, or '*hatcver the poir:t is, you ldll be dealt ;>'ft;~ as "':c think fit und if you do ntlt except the sp.?;CC offered you by the Z.!ini.ster of Public Vio:rks, it is too b.:.\d, You constituent-s nrc not going to vorry about." I agree, ~lr. Spc:1ker. Our const.ttm::n::s do n0t vorry nbout it nt nll b~cause they do net kno· . .; cnonsh of '>'ht1t is invol?ecl.

They "·ill worry nhout :i.t if they sec nmch .fu-:thc.r tr;J.n?licq:; on the r-is,hts of r,;c::r:bers of th.is House. It will be made clear. -~;r:,, CROSBIE: 1r7e intend to r;al:e it clear to ther::, t\;;"J.t th2ir representatives arc bc:i.ng treated wi::h contempt. All ttc hon. r:1iniater so.id 1;as that one l:on. menbcr, nancly myself, crossed the House three ti::1es. Yes, Hr.

S;:n:uker, you can put it that ·vn.y and o:;:c hon. -r.:cnbc.r of this !louse hn.s not crossed the House but has ch;:;.ngcd \lis K;incl <-l:mut fif::ce:1 ti:::e:s, ilt: least i}$ to·whcn tOut hon. gcntlen:rn is going to ~·..::tlre and resign. Like n t-;hirling derby, she whirls in one spot, cl:iutging his mind but the whirl - we are:.:;.ll ;;3tching the ••hirl <1:1d do nvt notice how often the nind is bscn changed. So, w!-1o is the hu;;t, niniste:r to talk about crossing the floor. It could happen in the e:~traTtdinury circt.rcstonc:cs uc find ourselves in in t;c;v;founciland today, because, H::.

Spco.ker, I ilnvc been convinced for the la:>t two ycnrs, that if we do not have rt chan[;C! of administra-tiOn in this Province, we are headed for disaster no r::attcr ;,;hat the gush and flow of uords and the .:1thsma is. l:lc nrc headed for disaster. Lust year, ·.;c hoped that that chango vould cone within the Liberal party. It did not, so that change uould bnve to come some other wuy and I having no co:J.fidencc in the present adninis tration h;;wc no choice, but to sit where I sx1 today, end I vould not ca.re whether it WLlS a twenty-fourth {;77

~rch 4. 1970 Tape 199 Page J GC time I had crossed and recrossed the House, I would do no different and I do not care, ~r. Speaker, whether it is a political blunder, and I do not care whether it is political suicide. It is what I think is the only course to take now, that all other recourses have been tried and failed; that the only course a true Liberal can take in Newfoundland today, is to try to get a change of this Government and if it has to be done through a general election , then it must be done that way. There are two kinds of Liberals in Newfoundland, Mr.

Speaker.- Smallwood Liberals and Liberals and we are Liberals and there must be a change in our view. So+ Mr. Speaker, that is "Why I happen:-tO be ove~r here. I am proud of it and I do not care, Hr. Speaker, whether I ever get another vote in cy life. I will have done in this session of this House, since 1966, what my conscience and my bCliefs force me to do. ~~ HON. MEMBER: Hear! Hear~ MR. CPDSBIE: Now, to get back to the office space, !-tr. Speaker.

It would be a tremendous gesture on behalf of the han. ninister who has been a friend of mine for some years, if he stood up and threiJ off the shackles and admitted he does not use that space, that he does not ~ant that space, that he respects the rights of !:!embers of this House, that he is going to strike a blow for the rights of the ordinary member of this House of Assembly and vacate the space tomorrow. We do not W"ant him to leave any Cabinet minutes behind. Stand up and throw off the shackles. Hr.

Speaker, on the other side of the House, there are eighteen Cabinet ministers, ! believe; all with offices in the building. All with civil servants to help them carry out their duties and their work. There is the· Speaker, Your lienor, has an office, the Deputy Speaker. ! think the Chai~an of Committees, the Opposition, the clerk. Yet, four members of this House are not provided the space. The han. gentleman opposite does not think, you see, that the public of ~e .... foundland cares whether there is any space for us or not. !hey think it iS a minor issue.

T..1ey do nat think that public opinion polls are going I? 7f

}larch 4., 1970 Tape 199 ~Bgc

I) Ge to sho;: thc.t the Govern::wnt night topple on this issue. Hell, w·c agree t.:ith then. Thnt is not the point. \Jc are not r:tising this poJnt, Hr. Spc:J~:e:r, thinkin; of votes in ;:m clcctio:l nhend. h"c r:::isc this point bccnusc We refuse to be trc::tcd with contenpt in this House. As n:c:mbers "of it, t:c h0.vc the s;1DC rights, or should have, ns ~c;;;~crs opposite, and h"C nrc bcins made to function in a desperate manner because of the arrogance and co~1tC::1pt in pnrt:icula:: of one hon. gentlenan opposite. :-!;;.

S;:H!aker, the hon. !,iinister >·Yithout Pntfolio is one of those :or all !Jo:., ncr.bcrs of the Cabinet - SI,S,OO iter::. They hnvc all got these nice rcC dispatch boxes. ! suzgest to Your Horwr that all the space th.st the hon. r::inister needs in this buildinz is contained within that red dispatch bo>: for carr;ing his Cn!:Jinet papers back and fo::-th to the building. ~io other spt~ce docs he need. Cercninly not in our Eousc of AsscDb1y C11<tr;;b<"<r, ~;;:. Speaker. TI1e nice red d.ispatch box.

Even two of t:1c e:r.-t:inistcrs t"-,twe got thex.. 'l·hey did not have them in our day. l-Ie could net uffod priorticD llkc. th;:.t with thosc red dispatch boxes. He had to use our CTwn little tn·icfcascs. Er. S?e.::tkcr, 1 think there is no point in tUlking on this issue too long. Tnis is part. of a pattern of arrogance and contccpt for the rights of the members of the House and therefore • for the public that has been cstub1ishcd since this session started. We oppose it: nou. If the hon., DCt:>bcrs opposite join with us in favouring thn.t resolution, the Government will not fall.

It will not be the downfall of the Govern::1CUt. It r:Jight be, Hr. Speaker, the dm~·ufo.ll of an ego. The downfall of an ego but it:. Hould not be the dcqafull of the Govcrrnnent and bon. members of this House would be standing and saying, although eighteen of thcu are thut Cubinct, cight.;en out of the fort)'-t'>iTJ and although another seven or eight have some connection tdth the administr:ntion, one vo..y or the other, t>;c have more respect for the House of Assembly and for our rights as Of it to nc::;bcrs/ than to continue/ show utter conter.-,pt for ar:.y of the ncmbers of this f'79

March 4, 1970 Tape 199 PageS GC House and therefore, we will vote on the affirmative of this resolution, MR. ~iRDEN: Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this motion. First of all, Sir, I would like to apologize. Last night, I understand that my whistling almost interrupted this whole session, but actually I did not know the House was in session and if I had had a room, I would have whistled there. The dignity of this House, Sir, to my mind, is very, very high indeed in my estimation, I had intended, actually, to bring in a clothes hanger from Corner Brook.

We do not, yet, have any space available and from the sound of it, it does not look like we are going to. I will not, as I stand here, blame the Premier. The han. gentleman, the "Ni.riister without Portfolio, is the only one I will blame because 1 do not think that this hon. gentleman and I know he is a gentleman, tan honestly and truthfully use this room ~hen he knows that with rank discrimination, as far as ~e are concerned, on this side of the House, we need some place to sit down.

We need, Sir, so~e place to telephone. 1 have been here, almost two weeks, Many of the people from my constituency have been trying to get hold of me. We have no number to give them. There is no possible way that ve can get back and forth for some of those proble::'.S and I feel, Sir, that I cannot blame one ~an except for the minister himself and I know if he is any type of man at all, and which I know he is, he will probably turn in the keys right after this speech. The han. Minister of Public Works, a very personal friend of mine, and I know, very highly thought of in his district of St. Barbe North.

It is actually very, very close to t:Jy districc. I :Znov m:my of his people a:td I know he feels th£! same vay. In Sc, Barbe ;rorth, I do not suppose, I suppose there is a second finest people in :lewfoundland, next to St. 5arbe South and I know that ~4ny of those people up there will understand if I say that the minister has done everything ?ossible he •.:ill to give us the possible room. I feel, Sir, that most of my constituencs before the next twenty-four hours will know heq we are being treated.

I feel I will tell them personally, publicly and I feel also that I must support this motion because it is only common sense actually. 1 cannoc see coming in here for a few more weeks, at least, because according ta"the Premier, chere will be none of us left after thac, so ac least che courtesy just a few weeks to have a room to sit :; S'D down.

1-!nrch !..., 1970 Tn.pc 199 P:1ge 6 GC I feel, Hr. Spe:tkcr, that 1 wust support this uotion and ! know that r.2.ny of ou:r han. friends o;'l the othe::- siC.:; arc 5obs to do the szt::c thing. Thank you. HR. SPEAKER: -In the House ready for the qucstio>t on tb: resolution? M.R. EA?J,E: z.::r. Speaker, I dit! not spcnk on this nation but in listening to the C.ebate, there arc one or t'wo things vhich cone very quickly to mind.

It <;oulcl seer:: that '"hen one crosses the invisible barrier in this House, thin side of the Chata:,er, one hcccr::cs 3 :oecond-class citizen of r;c~:foundland if 1:2 n;;e to believe everything we hea-r. A sccond·-cln.ss mcnber any-way. ;:.7" EAPJ,E: Opposition is rcprescntir:g our districts is ;;.ppnrcntly not rccogni:cd .::1.0 the ;:;:embers have just sn:i.d, they nrc huniliatcd and dovngradc8 ir:ccdiatcly because they arc on thls side of the House. The fact is, Hr .. Speake::, thnt ,:;ppnrently, it starts with comfort assassination.

Their con:fort hcs bee:~ nssJssinated and then it ends up wiLh chnracter assnssinntlon. People on this side of the F.ouse by all meilns at. the proponal of some gcntlc::::m, nrc accused. of being everything d0tC:stablc and deploral.Jlc and if this nort of tactic

MR. EAP.LE: And if this sort of tactic is the means by which our districts are supposed to be impressed uith t!1e kind of people we are, 1 think that politics in Newfoundland has cor..e to n level lower than it has ever been in history. The members on the other side have apparently looked at this particular issue with some ~usement, It is not a big, hugh issue that everyone can get excited about. I do not suppose it will carry very far outside the walls of this C:-w.mber, but the principle behind it is very vague. The principle behind it - the fact that we are all equal and all equally represent our

section of ~~et>~foundland cannot be dovn-graded or disputed in this Chamber. I think tile very evidence of this - just the "Way in which it has been hnnUled ',rould mokc n.ny thinking ;;erson realize that there is an attempt in :1ewfoundland to creatc tt>o types of citizens. One type that supports the Government, t:te other ~Jhich opposes it. \1c are here to do our job t-ihich ever siCe of the House t-:e sit on.

We will do it to the best of "ur ability and the very least. any Govcrnr:1cnt with a.1y gumption, any courage, or any ethics could do,would be to make the facilities available that we C~'1 Uo our jobs, :-1r, Speaker, I have great pleasure in supporting the !:'lotion, }ffi. HICKEY: :tr. Speaker, I rise to SUf:lport this resolution not because it has been ::~oved by <L'1 hon, menber on this side, but beca~se Sir, as it has been outlined there is a princi?le involved nere.

I fi:1d it rather difficult to understand vhy this Houso.1 vhich has so r.1uch i:nportant ~usiness to attend to have not gone along with the no~al. reasonable, request by the hon. mem~ers in question. It seems to oe Sir, they have not asked for anything great, they have as~ed for a place to hang their coats, they have asked for a place to be in a (!OSition to intertiew thei-r constituents should any of th.ern •..rant to see them, or indeed any r:lembe.r of the public, They have asked for a place to be a!Jle to sit down to prer-are for ti1e various speeches they might intend to maf:.e in this House.

As it is pob.ted out :tr, Speaker. there is a great difference in having :m office en any other floor of t11e building where one cannot hear what coes on in this House. !t is just not enough to offer an office on some other floor •..there one if he goes in there has no idea of what: is going on in the Eousc. For this reason Sir, ! think their request i3 quite reasonable and I think. that the Government would be ~ell advised to go along ':.lith their request.

"'' r;;ther surprised c;,c ot!-w:: side DJout vn.s-tins tise, bcc;1csc surely Sir, this is a vaste of tL:e, This sl;~Juld never t:c - th:!._s resolution s~wulG never he on the Order Paper. 'Eds r,,attG:' Gl oulci have beer; settle:.;! lens ago, v:e ore terned n3rtyrs en this side, t-tsl.l 1 cu2not Stl}' th<:!t 1 r;::oB.lly asrce ~ith that. Feel like ~ nartyr I cc:rtainly do not feel like a t:::a.rtyr Hr. Spcaiwr. I feel as though I have a r:re:c r:tind L1 support or rc:ject a:~y r:lc&.!suro that co:::cs before th:!.s House.

I think if all bon. t1eld:crs look Dt this issue m: the basis of alttrn~1ti·;c but :;upport it. 1 thin~ it is til;x: Ur. Spe2.ker, to rc~ove ?CJ:"SGGillitics froc, those issues nncl cspc.ci3lly t:"hi:J one. I think that we can all r;ct ovc::: hc,1tcG fro:n tirr.e to tir:c and r.nySc forget ;,;here vc nrc when we utter ::;o:.10. ?hr<tscs, Out surely, one c:tn c.nrry this kine! of thing too far. To Ccny ,::.a hon. Dilt:!;cr of thi:; l!ous£: office spilcc or a place to sit. Tiw sm::c as oth~r hon. members Exwc.tly, the sar;c,.: 33 other 88t:bcrs. To deny !·~r.

Speaker, an hon. r.er:;be.r that ricbt I think borders on the ridiculous. I do not particularly .like the. ~:orC ]!arrogi1.::lce" I cb not ~~~o;,· of ;my other v:ord that fits this situntio:::. 1 V.::J'Jlci hJtc to thir:io. ut the. sa:;y~ ti:::c th;;,t this Govern;;;;-cr.t vhc:ther it be bccau.:;<l of any pcr~o:12-l £ce.lin;:;s on the tJD.:r:t of the Prcr,.;ie.r or nny or all of those hon. ncn~crs. I lw.te to think that he controls the other side of the Uousc on an issue such as this. Surely, I >;ill believe that v;ll;;D l sec it.

I do not think he docs, 1 cio not think it is his intention to usc this kind of control. As it has alrendy beer: stated :·lr, Spcrtker, ue arc not aDout to - . .we are. not ubou:: to sec the Govc1·nrr:cnt fall if this ::cation passes. The Province uill not be in dun~;cr of havint; to r:;o back to t1>c p:poplt: toworrow, in ;;m election, for '>;c. are sitn?lY u:;king that four han. ncmbcrs or five be giv;.:n reasonable ncco:::wdat:ion5' 011. the ninth or tenth float. How much norc reasonrible can one get? It hM been J.>aiJ :.!r.

Speaker that this situn.tion points up discricin:Jtion or. the pnrt of Governcent or on the part of so1r.c ncrr:ben;, but hon. nc.::-;\"krs 001 t:lis side, It looks th<>t vay, I for o;.1c a::; prepan:d to reserve judger.1ent on that until i see the results of this vote. bnd I will say this Sirt anJ 1 wean it quite sincsrely- I hnvc sat: here for the pnst couple of >veci:s since this session co:::rMmceci, and I have ~&'3

seen the dignity and respect of this :touse brou;ht to an all-time low, on various i::;sues and variou:; •.!xchnnges. I will tell you Sir, if this motion does not ?.:tss, nou that this resolution is officially on the Order Paper before this han. House - it is no longer a question :::1at has been asked, or a point of principle, or anything of that nature - it is now a motion before the House giving each han. member an opportunity to debate it - to express his views and to m.1.ke up his own individual nind. If this motion does not pas:> !-1r.

Speaker, I t~ink han. r:1.embers of this House who do not support it are telling the people of this Province just how arrogant they can beco;.:e, Just how petty they can become, and just how unconc:e~ed they are ever nuch greater issues, much more important issues that should indeed, have been discussed !\ere thi~ afternoon. It migilt well be said that :!r.

Speaker, that this is the hour of decision insofar as what this hen. house has come to. !f we are going to let personalities interfcr to the extent where t.·e are ;oing to ;:oint the finger at four, th:ree, two, or one han. meobcrs of this House and say 11 I do not like you, I do not like you for what you have done, because you have crossed the House, ! do not like you because of -.;hat you ;;;aid, t do not like you because you have made it public that you dis<J.grec -.:it:h ::te." How low can we get? Is there :my di;nity left? :·!r.

Speaker, more ie1portant I t,;ould raise t!-l.e ·1Uestion having just gone through "Brotbcr!:ood ;;eek" is the-re any respect left ::or han. ::;er::bers t.;ho di:;ugrce, ,,-ho are of different political persuasions? Is th02re any respect left for ones fellow :nan? I think Sir, that the Government '.muld be vcll advised - O!' whoever is -responsible, be it an inJiviCual to ?Ull in cileir horns and call a truce. Let us get on with t;:c t;;w.sin.;;ss :hat confronts this !louse.

Let us get on uith the wore ir.1portant busb.ess cbat confronts this rtousc, and let ~s acknowledge at lenst tl:<Jt ;,·e .:it'C ~uppo.s~>d to h.:1V12 n free Province '.;hcth'-'r it is freedom of expression. :-Je are supposed to i1aw some rights which are protected, If ::.his ::;otion do not pass ~1r. Speakt:r, 1 would t>e inclined to t:hink it rather funny. or s::~ile: t.o myself if 1 beard sor:;eoue :cfer to t:~ose four hon. gentle~en as me:::.bers of Her >Lajesty's Opposition. For if they are han. meobers then certainly ti1ey Jf.!serve a ?lace to sit. !!R, COLLWS: :-Jr.

Speaker, I cannot let this opportu.>H:,• pass :oithout contributing one or t·.;o short remar;.:s, Beine a :::e:nbcr Eroo a district out- sicle St. John 1 s I can readily appreci.Jte the inconvenience and the Ji£ficult;-·

D?crn:e a: all boccuse, si~ca do no c (.now ac l::ci>.; seen:> stri'lnge., •.. ,,, .• ,

It seems strange to me, Sir, that at a time when the House of Commons in Ottawa and other parliaments, certainly the House of Commons have taken the position and there is no reason why they should. They have a fairly large majority up there. They have taken the position that the individual ~ember, very the backbencher ~here ever he might be sitting has got a important role to play in the Govern;~nt of Canada, in representing his constituents and indeed all the people of Canada. They have taken steps to make fairly substantial grants available for hon. me~Lers to do research work.

Certainly t would like to have better facilities in the Opposition Office than we have. t am not criticizing the quality of the staff we have there, but I ~auld certainly very much like to be able to employ adjitional staff to do the very necessary and the very time consuming research which is necessary, if a member is going to do the job he is supposed to do in this hon. House. t would suggest to hon. members, ~r. Speaker, that regardless of what side of this House they might find themselves on, that responsibility has not diminished.

It seews rather curious to me that we can find ~onies to provide office space and cabinet rooms in Corner Brook and in Grand Falls, as we sa~ today in answer~to a question which t had placed on the Order Paper. Still ve seem to find some difficulty in providing a very worthwhile service for me~hers of this hon. House. In my estimation, Xr. Speaker, we probably reached an !mpassa.

I would say to han. members opposite, the Premier included, let us forget this nonsense and recognize once and for all that those members do have a very serious responsibility to perform and certainly if it is ~ithin the pavers of Government to make that task a little easier, then I believe they have a responsLbility not only to those members but to all the people of Sewfoundland to do what they can to ensure that those people do an effective job for the country which we all love so well. J:~!ALL~ ~!r.

Speaker, I do not kno~ -we have used up so n:uch time, I suppose we oight as ~ell waste another few words, and another few minutes. It has been a sheer and disgraceful waste of time. The ten hours I spent, !1r. Speaker were not wasted. Tne ten hours t took of this House to discuss the problems of this Province and the people of this Province were not wasted, but the last two hours have been a shameful waste of the people's money and the people's time. hOat

the P.cusc, ou: o:: :ortv-tvo, tc hnve a roor.: a.ll to ther:selves, t.::w1'e they can telephone. E'he:re thc:y can listen to the pro::.ccedinc5 of this i:ouse, and be ;-.·ith the Library of this Cha~ber.

It is part of this Hc:usc, r-ot the Confederation Building, but the Eouse of Assecbl:·'· 0:;. the thirG floor, the Library of the House of Asser2Jly is on tl:nt very floor nnC in thP.t ver:-' Library there are two offices l~Y.l for ccr:;;ers sit tint: on the other sic:c. 'l'hc. hor::. rr.eti,c.r for Labrador \{est u!1o uses H: for the lnst t· .. ·o year's or t-:hnt ever it is since he left this side cf t:~c }~ouse ar:d nncthcr office "'-'GS put there fot" the hen. c0:-:.bcr for Eur:'::>er Ear;t. Ec says he Cccs not t;se it.

On the snr:;e floo:-, the third floor. 7he Einister .cf FnU ic \,'orKs foen:l ;1 splcnc!iC office. n splenCir: room for these hon. t:c:r;)cr:r> and. the rdnister nlrc.ady b2s rm office. He does not need it. He docs not need it. Be hns .;,:,office noh'. Tile ho:1 . gcntlcc:::n ncrcss have not ret nn office r;:;n,, rmd the office t.:as offered to tl-':cc by t!"le E:!nietcr of Public is sb:t:: feet a·,.;oy. Five floors. Sixty feet, n:nc p::ovi::ccs have th:.-cc, four, five, sl;:, e:!pht, t0n tir::cs greater distance to go.

Sizty feet: A fine office, a fine roo::,, telc?hones nne! e;:J.GY enough to inst<",ll the sou::d syster::, the sound systerr., V:r. Speaker, as your Honour kno"''S curries the voices o: this Chnm!Jer in the cor::r;on roo:'i's around this floor and in the. Press gallery. It also carries every vcice h;;;:r<2 do1-·n to the L:!bra!:')' and - no, not in the Prcn:ier's cfficc. It docs to the Libro.ry, "hich is on the third flo:)r nnd it is a sit:;:-•lc. tl:ing to put the sound systeto; into thi;; office thnt was offerc! these five. hon. tr.en':Jets.

Bo tf:erc in that office tbcy "-'Duld ha\fe a room sixty feet n"ay, rather co;-;:;lOCious n::d v:}!ich is on the third floor , in a very dig!liflet! position on the front of the building, v::ith telephones nnC the public address; S)"!~tcrr.. All that for ther:: sb:ty feet aFay tmd three elevators to bring therr. rapiCly up and dot.-:"n, t>m: what is all this taU: about? Utter, utter, shameful disgraceful waste of time. £:E. _l:]:l.LS: If mrybody doubted, l<r. Speaker, cy calling the Govcrr.r:.ent's position contcr:pt thi1t: no bod:;.' UouDte.d after this last fc.,.· minutes, sixty feet m:ay. It might

March 4th., 1970 Tape no. 201 c Page 3 just as well be six miles away. It might just as well be six miles away. It might just as well be the Premier's suite in the office in Corner Brook. We heard the Minister of Public Works, Mr. Speaker, stand and say last year how he went~through the trouble of providing, building office space, spent some public funds to build office space for the member for Labrador ~est and myself. We heard him explain that. He did not however, ~r.

Speaker, explain that as soon as the minister proposed it to me, I said,- "for Heaven's sake, do not <Jaste public ooney desecrating the Legislative Library.'' That is <Jhat they have done. They tnade a 't'idiculous 1:-ess for anybody who •..talks in and sees those cubicles down there. All they have to do is look at it. A mess they have made of the Libra~~ with paper thin wnlls. ~o tr4t.ter ~here you are in the Library, you can hear any conversations anyvhere in the=e. Perhaps that is the purpose. Perhaps there is a spy system going. I do not know.

That is vhat he offered and I told the minister last year, for Heaven's sake have the decency not to desecrate the Legislative Library and have the good sense not to vaste public money. But he hnd neither nor the Government had neither. We heard the metrber for Burin, Mr. Speaker, -can you imagine Winston Churchill putting up .,..ith this, the great Winston Churchill. Can you imagine the great Premier sitting over here in this position and putting up ~ith this? There would be no end of the hissing and spittinF and the madness and everJthing else. The place would rock. The pl:ace would rock~ !1r.

Speaker. ~:obody can imagine it. Nobody could even think it for a minute. Of course nobody else

can of:fsr for it, 1 n.r:: only explar~n::ion for it. less ::han a !Jrilliant ilddrc:ss to this House, sc,;;e'.:Ling less t:h::m the vast brilliant add::css ever given in this House of this House, and his dut:y tv his constituents, n:;d t;;;c people of this to be. His du::y is to exercise his m::: i:vlc?cnde;;t freely hdd opinioa in the ties:: interest of r:w P(W?le of this ?rovinc::s, that is what ilis duty is here.

J.. '•:&s :wt: c:lectcd to sit on thst side of the HoJ.;sc, I \·:as elected to cot:s into tb:!..s li::n::;;e of Asse:,bly and tc consider the r.,atters brought before sits here - ti1ilt: is "''hut hi.s duty is - net to ~vut;1 what his constitue:1ts -,...:mt him to say. If he t,!.~nks soc;£;t.hing entiNly opposite to t...•hnt his consti:::uc:nts •,.;a:tt - if he thinks the opposite should be done in conscience it should be done - it is his duty as n r,,..or::bt::r of this House to Co that, not couth ;:he views of his co:•~;titucnts, Ih>:>t is the ciuty of the wc.r::bers of t:1is House.

Perhaps the: hon. tr.CR'Jer '.JB.S not a>>are of that. The hem. n:cnbcr will find out in the next election 1 thank ny lucky stars :-ir. StHJaker, even if I do not: have an office to t!Hmk tiwc. in that. 1 ar.: no autorr.aton. A mindless he0.d-nodder A zoz:bie That i5 right, sou;cthing lc;;z thar. a zoc.bie - n zonl;;ic appears to have sor::e Luiepcndcnt dir.::ction. A.n autcoocon has none, it docs ~hat it: is progrm;;;r.-;E:d to do, !, ludicrous co:;;;r.cnt "el,;:octcd to sit on that side of the liouse," HR. I>EARY: Here is the legu.l garbage <lnd nit-pickinr; azain

~nt. WELLS: ilut :rr. Speaker, it points out one thing, it points out the clear reason behintl this. It points out the clear reason behind this - of the apparent view of the ~embers who have ;:;poken at least, I do not know if it is the vieY of all of them, but of the r..cmbers that have spoken that in order to be treated fuirly and properly in this House you must support the Government, Is that democracy? It is not the democr~cy that ! know. It can only be Smallwoodian det:~ocracy. It is not der:1ocracy in the ordinary political sense of the ":ord - but that is what the minister's comments point out.

He says it just as clearly as if he had not been an autot:laton and had spoken those ":ords, !!R. CROSBIE: Prosra:;u::ed NR. iiELLS: The ::1inisters in Ottaw·a be says, have to walk distn.nces to their offices. HR. S~!.U..LHOOD: I Jid not say no such thing !-1R. WELLS: I a!:'l talking about t;1c hon. n.i:tister, The r:tinisters in Ottawa said - he says have to '>mlk distances, even outside the building or do"-n in the basecents or sonewhcre to their offices, sure - but they have a cor..mon room immediately available to t~1em 1 irr.mediatcly adjacent to the Chamber. The parties !1ave HR.

WELLS: Sure they have ~!o one else has :-!R. ;..'ELLS: Ot~er ;;:enbers have too HR. s:1ALLi-.'OOD: Only the parties :·!R, HELLS: Other ::embers ;laVe too !-L'\, s:-tALLrlOOD: Only the parties Other mem~crs have too Only t\H:! parties HR. 1 ... t:LLS: All of the members have too HR. S!iALL:.IDOD: riot common rooms ~£R. WELtS: They have roorr..s available to them adjacent to the Chamber :·IR. s:·L\LL'..:OOD: A quart~r of a mile a'.lay, not sixty feet :-!R. HICK.!.·!A:l: Oh no, :lOSt ministers have tuo offic:es, one in the department ~·iR.

W"ELLS: Of course they do 1 and one in the l!ouse of Cor:."nons MR. s:·fALL\WOD: And rightly so ~m. WELLS: A good question bas been raised - before I say that, if that is liberalis:n the ~on. minister can have it. :ra can take it to Bell Island or ~qo

tc the Fu:<ks L' he l:.kcs, it h:.s nc rlncc ,'- ;; Gcmocracy. St. Joiln 's Hest, or the ho:.. rr:ember fror:: Su::ir: - one of the:::. These floors ;;uci orized hin: to us;:: it? Iic is nv::- prorc::ly ii1 tbeno cs nearly as I know.

Yes forc::.bly need for such an of fie;;,, all <HiJCr r::inistcr:> hn.ve offices 0:1 the ot'i1cr floors anC then c.ccess tc the G:;vcrnsc":: ncr:1.b~rs cor.::;c::Jn ro;:.r:, all other ministers have of:fi,ccs on the otl>E.:r floors, cvDr. ti-le Prcr,icr h:;.s his office 0:1 the eigl1t floor not very f2!:' ;:;:~·:Jy, but at leas: it is not in tho Eousc of Asse:n~ly t:1c hor;. nini.s:cr uichout portfolio. So J.ec. hi;J u.sc this r:;at,ni..ficcnc office dow•• stai::-s on the thirc! flocr and vl1y not - if bs hss the need for it.

But I sus;Kct D.is conscience \."Ould not: nllm.- hi::; tc do i<:. li~:e to thin~ his conscicr,ce would not allc·w ;Ji::. to put: ch·il servants out, civil servants t.:ho nrc properly using it out cnC just lock the Goer bcbin(l i1ir:: as he hilS done up stairs, It -..-~s carpc.tei, £u::nis!wd, uc1J tile doer hzs l>e.::.:n loci-:ed and that ls it, :io;.,· :i.f t:hi:lt is not a displn:; of coutc;:;p::. that no 1-~ords Ciln adequately dc.scri.~c I do not ~~no"'·· 'iou have t:o stop ar:J. thin!: ubout .:i,.c - you ca:1not re2lly ;;u:: it into words, It is thilt arrogant. anci cont.::r::?tuous.

The office princi?lc does. It. is no: :;:y rigiltS as an inJiviUual th.:1t: are bei:tt; tra:nplcd on, it ls t:w. r~r:.;llts cf a ncr::.~c.r of this House. r,;ot t:~c <:>s .:1n individual, or the L":e.n:,er f:r:or:'l St. John's Eust as an individu.:tl, it is be rights of the ;,;cnJcrs of this lloc:sc.

That is v.:nat is bc.ins trU::Jplcd upon, hi1CJ.t are '-'>'<.: to do, dcsc.cratc t'1c i\ousc: anC han£; our O\H2rcouts over the 1:1ight b~ o. ere a<:. display, Uut 1 ;.mci t:-,y collea~ues have: Cl\!ttcr ::>cnsc: tiw.t to do that. \;c have 2. srcater respect for t:lir; liousc. ;\lti<;:;us:i t~:c liousc i1S it is ).>-qf

:·larch 4, 1970, Tape 202, Page t1 -- ap'tl presently constituted in :ny opinion docs not deserve it, Llut I do have n greater respect for the history of it, and for t:hat it stands for than to do so~ething like that, How hon. members can even sit here and listen to it and not get sick I do not know. They cannot have any consciences. Last night the Premier - or yesterday :J.fternoon t1hen he •,.;as speaking I thought was about to have a seance when he wus talking about bringing back the dead - or a number of gentlemen who have been dead for so:ne time.

Look around the walls at the pictures of former grent :iewfoundlanders, Speakers of this House. What '!.tould they think of that conter.~pt if ;,:e want to have another seance? The great men that the Premier has admired and stood here in this House ••••• , , •• , •

. -.,- - The Pre.rr:ic.:: ~¥·as .:;drdrc:t! d:02 stooC here in this House or. nu:::(Orous occasions The r:s:; l-titl: a sense of d.eccncy nncl honour ar:d Cer:cocracy, Thnt is t.'hnt: he is tnlkcC o~out. h"hst de tbe; thin\ o: this? t-Jh2t uoulC they thirJ.: of this, if heard the Pre:dc:- Q);plnir. tc school students ,.;he cor;-.'! here to listen that th