March

30, 2000

SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE

The Committee met at approximately 5:00 p.m. in the

House of Assembly.

CHAIR (Sweeney): Order, please!

Thank you for coming at such a short notice. I know

you rejigged your

schedule a little bit.

First of all, I would like to introduce myself. I am

George Sweeney, the Chairman. The Committee members are Gerald Reid, James

Walsh, Gerald Smith, Tom Osborne and Sheila Osborne.

I guess the first thing I would better do, before I go

any further, is to move the adoption of the minutes of yesterday's meeting.

On motion, minutes adopted and circulated.

CHAIR: Minister, would you like to introduce

yourself and the officials?

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased to be here for the annual Committee of

the House to approve the budget for this year, 2000-2001. Sitting right next to

me on my immediate left is the Deputy Minister of the department, Ann Marie Hann.

Sitting next to her is Ken Dominie, ADM of Environment, and next to Ken is Joe

O'Neill, ADM of Occupational Health and Safety. One of our other people, Gerry

Crocker, the Director of Finance, will be here momentarily. He is on his way to

the building as we speak so he should be here any minute at all.

CHAIR: Okay, minister, if you would like to start

off with the

preamble about your department, please go ahead.

MR. LANGDON: I guess most of the people around

here were here last year when we did our last Estimates for the department.

Really, the department is made up of: protection and the enhancement of the

environment; labour relations and standards; and workplace health and safety

activities. The functions of the first include controlling water, water and soil

pollution by development and implementing appropriate water resources management

policies, coordinating environmental impact assessment of proposed development

projects, addressing industry domestic waste disposal issues, and regulating

controlling hazardous material storage, transportation and disposal of that

hazardous waste. Labour relations and labour standards functions include the

administration of applicable legislation, the provision of preventative

mediation programs for employers and labour education programs. The workplace

health and safety programs are provided to monitor and improve conditions in the

workplace through the development and application of various health and safety

codes, practices and standards.

I want to say that it was a couple of years ago now

that the education component of Occupational Health and Safety and the training

part was given to the Workplace, Health and Safety and Compensation Commission,

just the education and training. We set the standards, of course, the protection

and all the rules and regulations from the department, as such.

That is basically what we are made up of in the

department. I should say at the beginning that we were successful in the Budget,

presented a few days ago, to have some additional funding put into the

department. In fact, just about $500,000; $250,000 of that was dedicated to THMs

and the other $250,000 to hire new personnel within the department. We recognize

that we might be a small department as far as government is concerned but we are

very important. I guess we are the door to which business comes, and individuals

as well, for a lot of the regulations for doing business in this particular

Province.

I won't say any more. I will leave the time for the

critics, in a sense, to have some other questions on the department and see if

we can fill them in to their satisfaction.

CHAIR: Elizabeth, would you like to call the first

subhead?

CLERK: 1.1.01.

CHAIR: 1.1.01. The floor is open for discussion.

Who would like to lead off?

Mr. Osborne.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Surprise, surprise.

MS S. OSBORNE: We do it like we did in the other

ones, Mr. Chairman? We sort of took it loosely and we sort of floated around and

passed them altogether.

CHAIR: Yes. What I would like to do - just to give

an update on how we did it, Tom, seeing you are a newcomer - is just start off

with 1.1.01 and that leads us through the rest of the subheads. We will just go

on, and then at the end we will call the subheads and take it from there. I

think, Sheila, that is how we did it.

MS S. OSBORNE: Yes, and you can float back and

forth.

CHAIR: Just float back and forth if you feel like

it. For the minister and his officials, when you respond, give your name before

you speak for the record. I think that is all (inaudible)?

MS S. OSBORNE: Yes.

CHAIR: Okay, so Tom you are on.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I just have a couple of general

questions, minister, on the area on Environment and Labour through the

Estimates. The first one is 2.1.01, Pollution Prevention. I am just wondering

what your department has planned for the upcoming year in the area of Pollution

Prevention, if you can give me some idea of what the department is planning and

where some of the estimates for that area are going to be spent.

MS HANN: As relates to the Budget Estimates, as

the minister said in his opening remarks, the $250,000 that is approved separate

from the THMs funding initiative relates to the Pollution Prevention division,

actually. What we are intending to do there is to hire four new staff, create

four new positions to beef up basically a number of areas that are the

responsibility of that division.

We want to certainly increase our air monitoring

activities. We are hoping that we can get a technician there to work further

with industry. As well, we are going to be looking at the whole area of

toxicology and pesticides. We are intending to increase our complement there.

Waste management is certainly a big issue for us, in particular solid waste

management issues. We are hoping to dedicate specific resources where we can try

and deal with the numerous requests that come in from municipalities in the run

of a given year to try and systematically develop a plan and approach it from a

broader planning perspective. So, try and get a little more order into dealing

with those kinds of issues. Right now it tends to be sort of complaint driven or

sort of ad hoc, and we want to try and look at putting in place some kind of a

more systematic approach to dealing with that issue across the Province and in

Labrador as well.

The whole area of environmental planning and the

development of policies and procedures, as well, is another area that we want to

develop more so that we can apply consistent standards and policies across

various industries and companies when we are dealing with them.

So that is, in essence, where the budget increase for

that division is intended. That is where our thinking is at this point in time.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

MR. LANGDON: If I could. Tom, on the waste

management, as you know, we have a number of small communities in the Province

where they have all those waste sites. In fact, I think there is something like

over 255 of them. You have small communities and they are long distances apart

and so on. We want to be able to look at reducing some of them as a regional

waste management area and working with one of your members on your side, the

Member for Windsor-Springdale, out in that area, where we are hoping to close

down four or five of these landfill sites and be able to do one. As you are

probably aware also, in the Humber Valley area all of the communities around

there are now working at probably looking at a new site, but an integrated waste

management as well.

There are so many areas out in the Chairman's

district, in Carbonear, out in the Conception Bay North area. There is a problem

there with looking at probably getting a new area as well to incorporate that

whole region. The process is ongoing. I find more and more people willing to

talk about it, and I am also finding that the Newfoundland and Labrador

Federation of Municipalities is really supportive of this idea. Because we want,

in a sense, to be able to have our Province clean and tidy, yet, at the same

time, to be able to recognize that there problems for many of smaller

communities if they have to go to regional sites because of distances. We have

to, no doubt, recognize that.

I was talking to the ADM on the weekend. He was

telling me that, I think, in New Brunswick now they have six major landfill

sites, but you know when you look at that, you are looking at tippage fees of

probably $80, $90 or $100 a ton,

whereas I think in this particular Province

probably the highest tipping fees would be in the St. John's region. I think

they might be in the $30 range or something like that.

WITNESS: About $23.

MR. LANGDON: About twenty-three dollars. So, you

know, it is the idea that you can have a number of these sites but again how

much are you wanting the people in the small communities to travel, and how much

it is going to cost and all these things. It is a major problem for us, probably

more so than the other Atlantic Provinces.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay. I have just a couple

questions on that and I will start with you, minister, on the landfill area. I

know that with the regional landfill, the Robin Hood Bay site, there is a number

of environmental concerns with that, as you are aware, one of them being with

the large oil plume just off the landfill into the ocean and so on. Are there

any plans within your department to address the issues at that site, some of the

leaching not only of heavy metals but hydrocarbons and so on?

MR. LANGDON: As you are probably aware there was

some work done a few years back. I will let Ken go a little bit farther than I

can because he was involved with it even before I came. We are looking at one of

the possibilities of a landfill site for the whole northeast Avalon. When I

became minister, I think it was a couple of years ago, we had some meetings with

some people in Conception Bay South because we closed out their waste management

area in there into Robin Hood Bay. You are right, Robin Hood Bay eventually is

going to come to its life's end. I think it is incumbent upon us - we have a

large portion of the population here - to probably look for a new site in the

area that the whole northeast Avalon can adhere to.

I guess, again, looking at it at the end of the day is

how much will it cost to do the new site. It might very well be that there might

have to be some arrangements with the federal government, provincial governments

and the municipalities to do that. The more of the infrastructure that could be

paid for in a common commune type thing, then the less it would be per tonnage

of dumping it if you had to take it to a site somewhere outside the city. I

don't know how far out it would be. Let's say if the site was in the Holyrood

area. I am just surmising now it probably would never be there, but if everybody

had to come to that common site, if you didn't have to pay for the

infrastructure then there would be less tippage' fees than if you had to pay

for it as a part of an infrastructure program, and then bill off each one of the

municipalities as such.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you.

MR. LANGDON: Ken, can you fill in on that? There

was some work done I believe earlier or (inaudible) looking at a site out around

Foxtrap, was it?

MR. DOMINIE: Yes indeed, there was a study done

and a number of potential sites were identified in the report, but as of now

there as been obviously no action.

Just to carry on with Mr. Osborne's point about the

plume into the ocean, there has been some work done to see if that is having an

impact and up until now there have been no known impacts. There is no sediment

out there. We thought at one point in time there might have been some

accumulation in the sediment but it is so bare rock we couldn't even get the

samples. The water is so dynamic out there, it is so wild an area, that there

are no impacts noted. It certainly is visible, but we haven't been able to pick

up any long-term impacts. Fisheries and Oceans, the federal government, did the

work out there close to five years ago. At that point in time, certainly, while

the drainage is there it is not having an impact that we could determine.

MR. T. OSBORNE: You say there is no impact on -

MR. DOMINIE: No, nothing of any long-term nature.

Sometimes it is there and sometimes it is not. It is such a wild environment.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I know I have seen some test

results from that area which showed levels of everything, especially in heavy

metals and so on.

MR. DOMINIE: That would be in the discharge maybe

but not in the ocean itself. Certainly, we haven't been able to pick up anything

in the ocean itself. Some of the discharge, yes, drainage from the site. There

are some metals in that but once it gets in the ocean it disperses really

quickly.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Ann Marie, you mentioned some

concentration this year on toxicology. Can you elaborate a little on what is

going to be done there?

MS HANN: As I am sure you are aware, Mr. Osborne,

there has been an increasing interest in the use of pesticides in the

environment. As well, I guess, there has been, over the last while, a number of

forestry aerial spray programs, for example. We just wanted to be better

prepared and increase our knowledge base in those areas and to have a further

look and examination of our policies in that area. We are hoping that a

toxicologist on staff will be able to assist us in that.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I know one of the areas of concern

that I have is regarding the use of pesticides and so on. Certainly, you have to

handle it very cautiously because there is a market here for local growers and

so on. There are regulations in place for registered growers of local produce,

but some of the smaller non-registered growers have stands along the highway and

so on where they sell some of their own local produce. They purchased their

pesticides at hardware stores, or Canadian Tire, for example. There is no real

control or monitoring of what they are putting on their vegetables because they

sell them in such small quantities, but yet the consumer, figuring they are

buying a healthier product because they are buying a locally grown product, have

no idea what they are consuming. Is there any intention within the department to

have a look at the types and quantities of pesticides used by the smaller

non-registered growers?

MS HANN: One of the areas that we are looking at

is the general education and awareness. We did amend our pesticides regulations

two or three years ago to bring in increased training for operators and the

applicators of these products.

With respect to on the side of the road growers, I

have to be honest with you, it is not something that we had been particularly

focused in on. We have started looking at the retail aspects of the selling of

these products. We do recognize, depending on the improper usage, there are

certainly health risks to the individuals who are applying it as well as some

environmental consequences if improperly used. That is certainly an area that we

are looking at as we speak.

MR. T. OSBORNE: I have one final question in that

area, and that is on air-monitoring.

MR. LANGDON: Tom, what I was also discussing with

the deputy is this. Right now, for example, it is a part of the regulations to

enhance what we already have and that is where we hope the toxicologist would

come in Such that if, for example, Canadian Tire, Home Hardware, UAP or whoever,

would sell this, that they would have to have somebody on staff so that if Tom

Osborne went in to buy it then they, in a sense, would be able to explain to you

the ingredients that are there, the application, and all the things that could

go with it. We are presently looking at that within the department.

Also, for the people who spray, like the Lawn Doctor

and these people, they all have to be licenced. They all have to go through a

test that is being done by the department and so on. What we are also looking at

is improving that. Not only do you see the little lawn signs saying that this

lawn has been sprayed or whatever the case may be, there is a part of the

regulations that we are looking at where the particular commercial applicator,

if they were spraying in your area, would deliver literature in your mailbox

saying that this particular lawn has been sprayed and things of that nature.

That is what we are looking at.

Tom, somebody from the staff already said that there

is somebody at Canadian Tire who already does that. The commercial people

themselves are aware of it. People are more sensitive to the environment,

especially with pesticides and so on. The thing about it, as we said, we want to

make sure that expertise on our staff can give us expert advice as to what we

can do to improve our own regulations to meet the ever demanding need for

consumer protection of the people at large there.

MR. T. OSBORNE: When was the person, for example,

at Canadian Tire? The only reason I ask that is last year personally I purchased

some pesticides myself. One of the big complaints that I have received - I will

not mention any names from here on in but you know who I am talking about - is

they have very little staff in there and you generally have to track somebody

down. Only because I have a very limited knowledge of pesticides and so on was I

able to pick out what I wanted myself and bring it to the counter. I never did

track the person down in there to help me with it. It was just -

MR. DOMINIE: What has happened is that Canadian

Tires collectively across the Province have come to us and asked for some form

of informal training and we work with them. I don't know how many staff people

they have had from across the Province but that is where you start. It was their

initiative. They came to us and wanted our staff to work with them and start to

get their staff up to speed. I think we have also worked with Home Hardware

folks as well. Every store has (inaudible) staff, but they are taking the

initiatives themselves to make sure that they have people on staff who know what

they are doing. Like I say, it is their initiative. They are coming forward and

we are glad to work with them in a collective or individual sense.

MR. T. OSBORNE: A final question on that

particular area. On air monitoring, could you give me just an idea of where the

department is going this year and what they are hoping to accomplish?

MR. DOMINIE: Around major industrial sites, like

the Come By Chance refinery, the Holyrood plant or the Iron Ore Company in

Labrador, those companies are required to do the monitoring. We have been

working with them a lot over the past twelve to twenty-four months on setting

good protocols. We have one technician at the moment who goes around and audits

their processes. One of the positions we are hoping this year is to maybe have

some more people in Corner Brook, or one person in Corner Brook doing a summer

job over there. Our person in St. John's at the moment is covering the entire

Province so it is difficult to get over there.

We are working with the federal government as well to

try to get some more ambient monitoring stations in the Province. That would not

be associated with any particular industry. We have one station downtown on

Water Street and we just got a new mercury monitor, air monitor, which was paid

for by the federal government, on the West Coast. I think it is actually in

Cormack. The federal government is starting to come onboard a little bit more

and we are hoping to talk to them a bit more and see how much more equipment we

can get in the Province as well over the next little while.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay. Your department is

monitoring, I would imagine, the levels of acid in rain and so on. Can you give

us an update on that? I know that for the population we have and so on it is

considerably higher than you would anticipate, but it is because of air flow and

what is coming into the Province, not necessarily generated by the Province.

MR. DOMINIE: We have five acid rain monitoring

sites in the Province at the moment. Indeed, at this point in time they are

starting to be upgraded to get more information on the actual rain fall. We have

five stations around the Province at the moment.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Can you give us an idea of what

you are finding there now?

MR. DOMINIE: I would have to check the results,

Mr. Osborne. I am not (inaudible) detail but we can certainly commit to do that.

Those stations were in operation for a number of years and then they went out of

operation but we activated them again last year, and I will check and see what

information is available.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you.

The next section, 2.2.01, is Water Resources

Management. Again, I guess I am looking for the same sort of information, just

an update on where the department is hoping to go this year in regards to water

resource management.

MR. LANGDON: One of the areas, as you know, is we

want to do more data, more collecting, with the municipal water supplies

throughout the Province. One of the things that we are able to do is get a

person dedicated to that. We had money allocated in the department last fall.

Just before Christmas we committed that we would hire a person to put into that

position. I thought basically to just go out and hire somebody and bring them

in, but it is a union position, it would be advertised and all that stuff. It is

already advertised. I am not sure if the closing date has already expired or

not. I think it might be close to it, but it was in the paper a couple or three

weeks ago.

What that person will do, Mr. Osborne - and I have

been in consultation with the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of

Municipalities' Derm Flynn - is he or she will travel extensively throughout the

Province and be able to work with many of the smaller municipalities that have

THMs in their water supply above the standard and so on.

What we are finding in a sense is we need more date.

Like last fall, when the report was done, one of the communities had one test

done and that one test was 433. There have been subsequent tests done since that

and one of the tests that was done in January of this year - just recently put

on the web site; I guess it would already be there - that level is now 111. The

town again looked at the way that they were chlorinating and screening out the

organic material and so on. They were able to screen the organic material before

the chlorination was actually done and chlorination on the opposite end. They

found just tremendous difference in the THM levels. Another of the communities

that was over 400 on one test, when there was seven or nine of these tests done

in 1999 their level, I believe, was 157.

I guess the problem for the new person when the person

comes on staff - and, by the way, we took one of our present staff and allocated

them directly to the THMs so that when the new person is hired he will have a

very short learning curve because a lot of the work will be done for him and he

will just get on doing it. That particular person, as we get in more data and so

on - and we are not the only people who do not have all the date. If you look at

the Province of Nova Scotia, I do not think they have done a lot of data in the

last three or four years. They are starting to do that again now. Once you get a

complete data in place, a complete set of a year or two of sampling in each

season, then you can see really where we are. Then, of course, with the

communities that would be on the higher end you would have to look for ways,

very quickly, with the person in charge and the people that run the system to

see if we can find a way to lower them. There is more consciousness of this , I

think, on everybody's part, they are more aware of it.

I guess we want to also be able to find, and we are a

long ways away from probably doing anything with it, but we are just exploring

the idea of where we would have the university work with some of the

stakeholders, the communities work with the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation

of Municipalities, and communities in some of the engineering groups, so that if

we had a system where we could test and do it through the university here, make

our own system, then we could solve our own. Sometimes people will come from

other provinces and say: I have higher answers, I just want to be able to it for

me. Give me this amount of money and I can do it. It is just not that simple.

If we could find solutions here and be able to find a

solution to one community, that particular solution could probably cure twenty

or thirty of the same communities. We are actively working on it. We want to be

able to speed up what we have been doing. As I said, with $250,000 with this

person and be able to travel extensively, working with the towns, and working

with the managers in many of the smaller towns - because they do not have the

infrastructure there, and people, and the wherewithal to do it all. We would

hopefully be able to improve on that situation and work with them to make sure

that the chlorine mixture is the proper amount and all of these types of things,

and educate the councils so that they can work with their town managers.

It is a real process and it is not going to be fixed

instantaneously, but we are working with it and hope to make significant

improvements. I think we will as we go along and see that the testing is being

done.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay. With ground and surface

water protection and management, what is your department doing in that regard

this year?

MR. LANGDON: Do you want to fill that in?

MS. HANN: I guess, like so many things that we are

trying to do, we are trying to look for two things: one is certainly prevention;

and two, to work with various communities to develop home grown solutions. One

of the areas that we are trying to concentrate on is more in the area of water

management committees at the local level. We have been out aggressively trying

to work with communities to put in place local committees to develop plans for a

protection of their public water supplies and those types of things.

We are very aggressive. We are trying to get much more

aggressive on the prevention side of things, and as well, as opposed to going

out and imposing a solution, we involve all the various stakeholders and

interest groups in the area, resources users and that sort of thing, to deal

with the problems and the issues in a holistic fashion, basically.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Okay. Thank you.

You have already covered, I guess, some of the

questions that I have had within water quality under 2.2.02. You have here Water

Quality Agreement between the Federal-Provincial Water Quality Monitoring

Agreement. I am wondering if you can just give us a brief on what is happening

there.

MR. LANGDON: Ken?

MR. DOMINIE: I am sorry, I was talking to Ann

Marie, Mr. Osborne. I missed the point.

MR. T. OSBORNE: The Federal-Provincial Water

Quality Monitoring Agreement, the monitoring under

section 2.2.02 -

MR. DOMINIE: What is the nature of that?

MR. T. OSBORNE: Yes. I guess I am looking for an

update on what is happening there.

MR. DOMINIE: That is a federal-provincial

agreement which is cost shared 50-50 with the federal government. We have a

number of stations around the Province, I think around fifty at the moment,

which we regularly collect water samples from. They are not municipal water

supplies but general background water quality for the Province. That has

produced an excellent sort of record of what the condition of raw water is and

what the water supplies are like in the Province. Not community water supplies,

but general streams. For instance, here in St. John's, the Waterford River has

been sampled for a number of years. We have about fifty locations around the

Province now where we collect water samples on a regular basis. That program has

been in place now for probably in excess of ten years, maybe fifteen years. We

have a lot of data on file, (inaudible).

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you.

MR. DOMINIE: I apologize for not being so

attentive as I was (inaudible) I was talking to Ann Marie (inaudible).

MR. T. OSBORNE: No problem. Those are all of the

questions that I have at this point. I thank you very much.

CHAIR: Sheila?

MS S. OSBORNE: I have a few questions and they are

basically on the lines. On page 105 - and I think I already know the answer to

these but I will ask them anyway - 1.1.01.01 and 1.2.01.01, the Minister's

Office and Executive Support respectively, the fluctuation in the salaries, I

guess that has to do with pay periods. Or does it have to do with any more

people being hired?

MR. CROCKER: Is it the Minister's Office you are

interested in or -

MS S. OSBORNE: The Minister's Office and Executive

Support. I just put the two of them together because I think the one answer will

cover both.

MR. CROCKER: Right. The fluctuation in the

variance, I guess, from the amount budgeted for the next fiscal year and last

fiscal year mostly relates to step increases and salary increases. The variance

in the projected revised would be as follows: in the Minister's Office there was

an additional staff there; and in Executive Support there would be a salary

differential and there may have been some additional dollars provided for a new

Executive Director of Labour that was appointed last year.

MS S. OSBORNE: Okay, that is that one.

In .03, Transportation and Communications, under

1.2.02, Administrative Support, it was budgeted for $212,400 and then that

wasn't used. It was revised, and now it is up to $212,400. Is that something

that you planned to do and didn't do and now you plan to do again?

MR. CROCKER: The amount budgeted under

Transportation and Communications for Administrative Support, a large part of it

does cover the postage and also the phone costs. I guess over the last few years

some of the phone costs have been going down with better long distance rates.

Plus, we find that with the postage also there has been a bit of a decrease

there where there is so much use now with e-mail there is probably not as much

mail actually going out. So we are saving some money in that area also. We

reinstated the same amount for next year, I guess in anticipation that there

could be some fluctuation. We are not really going to adjust it at this time.

MS S. OSBORNE: Okay.

In 2.1.01.03, Pollution Prevention, Transportation and

Communications, there is a big jump from the revised in 1999-2000 up to $229,100

for this year. Does that have to do with the new folks coming on with the

toxicology and stuff? Okay. So I asked that and answered it all myself. I

anticipated that was what it was but I just wanted it for clarification.

Down in 2.2.01.06, Water Resources Management,

Purchased Services, it is up a fair bit from $25,300 to $157,000. Can you

elaborate on that?

MR. CROCKER: The fluctuations there in that whole

section actually relate to the additional money that was provided for the THMs.

There is $245,000 in total. There is an additional amount of $50,000 in

Salaries, there is roughly $130,000 in Purchased Services, there is some

additional dollars in Transportation and Communication, and $30,000 there for

Property, Furnishings and Equipment for a new vehicle. It all relates to the

THMs funding.

MS S. OSBORNE: The Professional Services now, you

don't anticipate adding any there? That would be 2.2.01.05.

MS HANN: The increase for Purchased Services is

the THM sampling, the actual sampling costs and lab analysis.

MS S. OSBORNE: Okay.

MS HANN: We are planning to increase that effort

significantly this year.

MS S. OSBORNE: Okay, but Professional Services,

you don't anticipate any increase there for the THMs?

MS HANN: . No.

MS S. OSBORNE: Okay.

Under 2.3.01.05, Environmental Assessment,

Professional Service, the budget was $600,000, the revised was $3,300, and it is

back up to $600,000. Once again, is that something that you anticipated doing

and didn't, and now you anticipate again?

MS HANN: That is all related actually to the

Churchill River project. I guess last year in the budget we anticipated

increased activity on the part of the environmental assessment division with

respect to that project. It did not happen as quickly as -

MS S. OSBORNE: You are anticipating that it will

(inaudible).

MS HANN: We are planning again for it, yes it is.

I should also let you know that some of the costs included here in the revenues

relate to the cost of the actual assessment of the Voisey's Bay project.

MS S. OSBORNE: That is in Professional Services

there too? Did you say that -

MR. LANGDON: 2.3.01.05, Professional Services.

MS S. OSBORNE: Yes, that is the same thing. An

assessment of Voisey's Bay too?

MS HANN: No, the Voisey's Bay assessment cost

would have been completed. The Estimates for next year relate to Churchill

River.

MS S. OSBORNE: Okay.

All right then, Labour Relations and Labour Standards,

3.1.01.01. The Salaries are up a little bit. Have there been new people employed

there?

MR. CROCKER: The variance there is about $27,000.

That relates to increases, step progressions and annualization also. The

variance would be revised in the salary amount. There was a vacant position

there last year so we did not spend our full allocation in that area.

MS S. OSBORNE: Okay, and it is up for this year so

did you say you are planning on hiring somebody again?

MR. CROCKER: Yes, that position will be filled

this year.

MS S. OSBORNE: Filled this year, okay.

In Workplace Health and Safety Services, Salaries,

4.1.01.01, there seems to be a significant increase in Salaries there - can you

explain that? - from the revised of 1999 up to the Estimates for 2000-2001.

MR. CROCKER: In Workplace Health and Safety?

MS S. OSBORNE: Yes, 4.1.01.

MS HANN: That is basically related to the six new

positions we created last year. It is just sort of a time lag between the

filling of those positions last year and this year. We hope to have a full

complement.

MS S. OSBORNE: What are those six new positions?

MS. HANN: Mr. O'Neill, you can correct me if I am

wrong. There will be four new inspection officer positions and two hygienist

positions.

MS S. OSBORNE: This is just a general question. I

brought it up last night at the Human Resources and Employment meeting. It has

to do with - and I am not sure, Mr. O'Neill, if this comes under you or not -

with respite workers. They are not covered and cannot get workers compensation.

Do you have anything to do with that? Or do you know anything about it?

In terms of their workplace safety, sometimes they are

in peril. They are really, I guess, high risk because they are dealing with

people who are severely mentally and physically challenged so the lugging them

around or the outbreak of violence - you know how they have temper tantrums and

they can become violent and stuff. So they are really in high risk positions,

especially for back injuries and things, but they cannot be covered under

workers compensation. Do you know anything about that?

MS. HANN: That issue is one we are currently now

working with the Department Human Resources and Employment on. As you are aware,

they have just undertaken an extensive review of their program, and as part of

that exercise we are looking at that issue, trying to find some resolutions to

it. It is certainly not a straightforward issue. There is certainly a lot of

dynamics to it that I guess one never really anticipated in the beginning when -

MS S. OSBORNE: When the government sort of came

out from being the umbrella, as being the employer, which they were first and

then, I think, they made either the individual, who is the client, or the

mother, or the foster mother, or the guardian are now the employer. Actually, a

lot of people are contacting me. They are quite concerned. Because, number one,

it is more difficult to get respite workers when they realize that: Now I am

going to be dealing with a 200-pound severely physically challenged individual

who I will have to lift and things, or a person who is severely mentally

challenged who could have an outbreak of violence. When they realize the risk

that is in their workplace, and the fact that they are not covered, who would

they sue if something happened? Where would be their protection? It is making it

a little bit more difficult to get good respite workers in that case, so we are

now putting the individuals at risk because they do not have the workers. It is

multifaceted really.

MS HANN: It most definitely is. The Department of

Health and Community Services, where the programming aspect is coming from, is

certainly - we are working very closely with them as part of this review now to

see if it is possible to bring some resolution to this issue.

MS S. OSBORNE: Okay. Those are all the questions I

have.

CHAIR: Is there anyone else?

Jim Walsh.

MR. WALSH: The Member for Port au Port, the Member

for Twillingate & Fogo and I have collaborated and we have only about nine

questions, so it will allow us to get of here early.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to move the Estimates,

1.1.01 through to 5.1.01.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 5.1.01 carried.

On motion, Department of Environment and Labour, total

heads, carried.

CHAIR: Thank you very much.

I think, before we go, I would like to offer a very

special thank you to Kevin Collins up there for coming back on such short

notice, for stepping in and keeping us afloat here this afternoon. Thank very

much, Kevin.

The motion for adjournment is in order. Minister, to

you and your officials, thank you very much.

MR. LANGDON: I would like to thank the people who

have come here and done due diligence to the Estimates of the department. I want

to thank you. I guess when we leave here we will follow through with our

previous engagement.

The Committee adjourned.