May 9,

RESOURCE COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte-Springdale,

replaces David Brazil, MHA for Conception Bay East & Bell Island.

The Committee met at 6:00 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Verge): Okay, ladies and gentlemen, if we are ready - I think

everybody is pretty well ready - we can get this meeting started.

First of all, I want to welcome you all here to this meeting as we debate the

Estimates for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation. We are going to

start by asking members of the Committee if they would introduce themselves.

We can start on my right over here with Mr. Baker.

MR. BAKER: Jim Baker, MHA for Labrador West.

CHAIR: Watch for your light to come on, folks, before you speak because

Hansard is doing a recording of this.

MR. BAKER: Oh, sorry.

MR. DAVIS: Good evening.

Paul Davis, MHA for the District of Topsail.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, Baie Verte-Springdale.

MR. HUNTER: Ray Hunter, Grand Falls-Windsor-Green Bay South district.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Kelvin Parsons, Burgeo & La Poile, Opposition House

Leader.

CHAIR: There are some people here in attendance who are researchers for

the Opposition. You can go ahead and state your names for the record if you

want.

MR. LONO: Simon Lono, Office of the Official Opposition.

MR. MORGAN: Ivan Morgan, NDP caucus.

MR. MURPHY: George Murphy with the NDP caucus.

CHAIR: I think the order here now, Minister, is that I will recognize you

in a minute and you can introduce your officials. I think once I ask the Clerk,

in a minute, to call the first subhead you can have up to fifteen minutes, if

you want, to talk about your department, introduce your officials, and we will

go over to some members of the Committee. Again, it is up to fifteen minutes at

the beginning; however, I kind of expect that if this goes the way it usually

do, we will be back and forth. I would ask members of the Committee if you have

questions to direct them to the minister and if the minister wishes to enlist

the assistance of some of his officials, then he will do that.

I will ask the Clerk to call the first subhead.

CLERK (Mr. MacKenzie): Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Shall subhead 1.1.01 carry?

Minister French.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you very much.

I guess I will start off by introducing our delegation here. First, next to

me, is Rick Hayward, the Deputy Minister; next to him is Mark Jones, the

Assistant Deputy Minister for Culture and Recreation; then it is Mary Taylor Ash

who is the Assistant Deputy Minister for Tourism; behind here is Barry Petten,

my Executive Assistant; in the middle is Scott Jones who is the Director of

Finance; and Diana Quinton who is Communications Director.

I am not going to take up too much time, I will leave that for the questions,

but I just wanted to talk about, as most of you probably already know, there are

three lines of business in our department. Of course the Tourism, which we

operate from Uncommon Potential, there is the Culture and Heritage which

operates with our Creative Newfoundland and Labrador, and, of course, our

Recreation Division which is Active, Healthy Newfoundland and Labrador.

I guess we have done a number of things in Tourism over the last number of

years and it has been a very, very successful year, this past one. Our marketing

budget is $13 million. That came from $6 million some years ago. We had 518,000

non-resident tourists this year, which was a record for our Province. We

launched three new chapters of our TV ads. We had a redesigning of our Web site.

I think it was up and running for maybe two months when we won a reward for it,

actually. We have won, right now, I think it is 106 marketing awards over the

last couple of years, and included in that, of course, was the best Web site

that we just recently won.

We have done a vehicle rental study. We have done some resident travel

surveys here in the Province. We are currently doing a provincial tourism Exit

Survey which is, I believe, to be significant when it comes to knowing your

product and knowing what people are looking for. We have also participated with

the federal government. I have had several meetings with the Minister of Tourism

and we participated in a federal mission with him.

From the culture and heritage side, since the Blueprint we have invested

about $44 million in the culture and heritage industry. Of course, we were

involved with the Olympics, the Paralympics, the Paralympic Winter Games, the

JUNOS, Cupids 400, and Republic of Doyle is another thing we invest in.

Our CEDP, which is split between the arts and the heritage side, is about $2.9

million that we have put directly into the arts and heritage. We have upgraded

our arts and culture centres with infrastructure. I think it is $3.4 million or

$3.5 million over the last four or four-and-a-half years.

Of course, the list of cultural events across the Province is too many to

mention. Many of them have been very, very successful and admired by many of our

visitors. The Colonial Building: we just approved in the Budget I think it was

$2.8 million that we will partner, should other some other funds, federal funds,

become available we believe they will become available to continue on with

the Colonial Building renovations. As well, we have invested in the Mary March

Provincial Museum in Grand Falls.

From the recreation and sports side, we have invested $7.5 million in

recreation and sport infrastructure with the federal government to a program

called the rink program. That program, for lack of a better term, expired a

couple of years ago and all we are doing now is the cash overruns. So, you will

see that in our budget lines. I think this year it is $3.4 million or $3.5

million that still has not been taken and used. It has been announced, and it is

for particular places but it is still not spent. It will be, certainly.

We gave $600,000 in grants for rec and physical activity programs. There is

$200,000 for the seniors' rec program, which I am sure you are familiar with. We

have hosted the Newfoundland and Labrador Winter Games in Grand Falls this past

year, which was a big success, and, of course, the Labrador Winter Games. We

have also had Canada's National Junior Team camp here and we partnered with

Hockey Canada with the TELUS Cup world juniors and the which one am I leaving

out here now?

OFFICIAL: Women's 4 Nations.

MR. FRENCH: The women's 4 Nations Cup; sorry, that is the one I was

missing. How could I forget that one? They won gold.

We have also placed defibrillators in sports arenas, and we have just

expanded that this year to include swimming pools as well. We have partnered

with the Heart and Lung Association.

From a tourism perspective and a sport and rec, we are looking forward to a

successful year. There were quite a few things announced in the department

during the Budget process. Without any further ado, I guess I will turn it over

to you guys. Carry on.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

From the other side of the Committee, Mr. Parsons.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Mr. Minister, I do not think we will be here as long as Natural Resources; we

were here five hours. You have one of the so called feel-good departments, I

guess. It is quite a different piece.

Probably where I will start off is in what I call the line by line stuff. I

usually go down through just to ask some questions about why changes, why things

were not spent, why the figures have been arrived at for this year and so on.

First of all, on page 173 in the Minister's Office, there does not appear to

be a big variation. There is just minor stuff about the Supplies. Obviously, you

did not spend half of what you had intended on Supplies last year. You had

budgeted $10,000 and you only spent $5,000, but I noticed in the Executive

Support piece it has jumped up from $5,100 to $12,700 last year. That is under

1.2.01. What kind of thing would justify an increase?

MR. FRENCH: I know, obviously, there were extra supplies bought than was

initially anticipated. I think, if I am not mistaken, and somebody can correct

me if I am wrong, but I believe we had to get some equipment for the Executive

including projectors - I call it a projector; it is not a projector. What would

you call it?

OFFICIAL: A TV.

MR. FRENCH: A TV, yes - but the whole set-up for showing the ads. When we

are screening the ads, when they come in from Target Marketing, this is where

they set up. So that would have cost, I do not know the exact figure, but it

certainly would not cost the total amount that it was over. Any idea what other

specific things could be there?

MR. HAYWARD: Mr. Parsons, supplies cover things like printer cartridges,

paper, pens, toners, and that is hard to predict from year to year. I guess

whether it is charged to the Minister's Office or Executive Support, it is all

comes in through the office and it depends on who orders it. We did spend

$12,700 there on $5,100. For the most part, that varies from year to year

depending on what kind of inventory you had from the beginning of the year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Moving down to -

CHAIR: Mr. Parsons, one second; I would like to ask officials, when you

speak, could you say your name first for the purpose again of Hansard and being

recorded so they know whose name to attach to the comments?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Section 1.2.02, down in the bottom where it talks about Revenue Provincial.

It had been anticipated last year that there would be, I guess, a shortfall of

$10,000 and it was actually a shortfall of $80,000. What kind of revenue sources

would be talking there?

MR. FRENCH: That was due to the Royal Visit.

Increased revenues of $70,000, I think that was money that was paid back for

the RCMP and that sort of thing. Would it not be?

MR. HAYWARD: When we spend money in the Province, we have to spend it and

then the federal government reimbursed us for parts of the Royal Visit that

occurred there in 2010-2011. We budgeted $10,000 for repaying travel advances

and miscellaneous revenue of that kind. In this particular case, we had to incur

the expenditures and the federal government reimbursed us. That is the

accounting system we use and the revenue goes in there.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Page 174, 1.2.03. Strategic Planning and Policy, 05.

Professional Services, I notice there was $20,000 that was not budgeted at all.

Can you explain where that

MR. FRENCH: Go ahead, Rick.

MR. HAYWARD: Basically, we identified some information management project

that we wanted to fund. We were not specifically budgeted for it, so we found

various sources of funds in the department. We treated it as a priority. We set

our priorities and we found some funding in the department in other places to

fund that initiative, and that is where the expenditure belonged, sir.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What kind of initiative was it again?

MR. HAYWARD: It is information management to try to get our paper records

and our computer systems up to the best that they can be.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The next section, 1.2.04, under Purchased Services, I

notice there was nothing budgeted last year but you actually spent $142,200 and

this year you budgeted $500,000.

MR. HAYWARD: Basically, in 2010-2011 we budgeted $400,000 there in

Property, Furnishings and Equipment for Whitbourne and Cupids. As we went

through the process to do the repairs on Whitbourne, we realized that we had

budgeted it all in the wrong place, in Property, Furnishings and Equipment. The

actual breakdown was that we needed Purchased Services. Purchased Services is

tendered services like paint, lumber, windows and that kind of thing. Really, it

is a charge to where it belonged, but the budgeted amount of $400,000 occurred

in Property, Furnishings and Equipment. As you know, when you do a budget you

make your best estimate of what the breakdown is going to be. It ended up a

little different than what we thought.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Was it just those two projects? You mentioned Cupids.

MR. HAYWARD: In 2011-2012, the $500,000 is for Argentia. There were two

projects in 2010-2011: Whitbourne and Cupids. Now we have, in Purchased Services

for the most part, the Argentia Visitor Information Centre.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What exactly is planned for Argentia?

MR. FRENCH: A half a million dollar renovation. Basically, the outside of

the building is going to be redone, new windows, and there is going to be some

work done on the grounds. It has been a bit of an eyesore over the last year or

so and it is one of our gateway entrances that need significant work on the

outside envelope of the building in particular, as well as the grounds. That is

what

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You are referring, of course, to the Visitor

Information Centre in Argentia?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: When you pay out money like that, the $142,200 for

example that was paid out, this year it is obviously capital that you are paying

out to refurbish a building, but in the case of Cupids and Whitbourne when you

pay out $142,200, do you actually do the contracting with someone or does the

committee on the ground do it and you reimburse the committee? Most of these

areas have a committee involved that looks after the Cupids celebrations for

example.

MR. HAYWARD: Yes, the Department of Tourism, if it is Purchased Services

that would be a tender. We sometimes use Transportation and Works engineers to

do it, but, yes, we would get input from the committee on the ground. We have

community partners, but for the most

part if it is a purchased service it would

be a tendered three quote kind of thing.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The $2.8 million there, Grants and Subsidies, what

would be included in that for this year?

MR. FRENCH: That is just the Colonial Building. It is the money for the

Colonial Building.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You mentioned in your introductory remarks that you

were not sure about the federal piece.

MR. FRENCH: No, there is a process we go through, which you are probably

familiar with, through Canada Building Fund and so on. We are hoping to match

that with federal funds and put it together to get I think the total project

for the Colonial Building is probably now running about $18 million, of which we

have spent a couple of million dollars on, I would say almost $3 million. We

have allotted $2.8 million in this budget, hopefully to partner with the federal

government to double it.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: If the feds do not partner with you on it, that will

still get spent, regardless.

MR. FRENCH: Yes, definitely.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You are just hoping that you get $4.6 million in

total.

In Tourism, page 175, in the Grants and Subsidies

section in 2.1.01. Last

year you had budgeted $875,000, actually spent the $875,000, and you have

increased it this year. What kind of things would be included in there in terms

of grants and subsidies?

MR. FRENCH: An increase of $200,000 reflects the grant for Destination

Labrador, that is why the increase.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Could you explain that, please?

MR. FRENCH: Through our destination management organizations, we give all

the DMOs now a set amount of money. Last year we had increased. Now we have four

DMOs, and they all get $150,000.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just for the record, DMO is?

MR. FRENCH: Go ahead, Mary, you can explain that.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: It is actually a movement of money there. The minister has

correctly pointed out, this is destination management money that is going to

Destination Labrador, $150,000, but it is actually moved from the Strategic

Product Development for ease of grants in how we distribute them.

The other money that is in there, Marble Mountain is in there. Marble

Mountain receives $800,000, and you will see the $875,000. Marble Mountain

receives $400,000 operating and they have also received $400,000 in the past for

capital. Targa motor race is in there as well at $75,000.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: How much of that is government targeting for Marble

Mountain?

MR. HAYWARD: $850,000; $450,000 for capital to do some snowmaking

upgrades out there and a $400,000 regular operating grant.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: How does that compare with other years?

MR. FRENCH: Actually, from the infrastructure piece we have invested,

over the last three years, $1.2 million. This year we are at $475,000 for one

year, so it is a little bit higher than the last three years. The $400,000 is

consistent with what it has been.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: How did Marble do this past year?

MR. FRENCH: How did they do? I do not have the final numbers. I think

they are on comparison to last year, though. I think they are pretty well on

line with last years because I called a while back just to get before they had

closed, and they had predicted that they should come out around the same as last

year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Was last year a good year?

MR. FRENCH: No, I would not call it they had eighty-six days or

eighty-eight days.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: I think, as the minister has pointed out, it is comparable

to last year. Last year was not a good year and it is maybe mid-eighties this

year in the number of days due to lack of snow.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Right.

MR. FRENCH: In some of the better years, I think like mid-nineties would

be an extremely good year. Of course, weather is a big issue there. The $475,000

this year is for snowmaking equipment. We are hoping to extend, get you those

couple of days early and a couple of days later as well.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Under that same heading there, Purchased Services,

you had budgeted $12,417,100, spent $12,296,100 and budgeted $12,417,100 again

this year. I take it that is principally the tourist marketing ads?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can we get a breakdown as to who you actually paid

that money to? I would think it is all tendered, is it?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can we get a breakdown of who the $12,400,000

actually was spent with?

MR. FRENCH: Certainly, it is not all for TV ads either.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No, no.

MR. FRENCH: Of course, there is a multitude of different things that the

$12 million is used for, different forms of marketing, as I am sure you know.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Right.

MR. FRENCH: We should have no trouble of getting you a breakdown of that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: If you could provide us with a copy of usually, Mr.

Chairman, the minister undertakes to provide the information to the committee

and it gets distributed amongst everybody when it becomes available.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

CHAIR: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Under Culture and Heritage, again under 3.1.01. I am

on page 176 here. The $4.3 million last year, you spent $4.3 million, this year

you budgeted $4.5 million for Grants and Subsidies again. Who principally gets

that money?

MR. HAYWARD: The increase there is accounted for by the increase in the

Cultural Economic Development Programs, the granting program that provides

support to both our cultural industries and our heritage initiatives. That is

where we fund Trinity Pageant, Ferryland, and those other kinds of groups. We

put an extra $200,000 in there. It is a big, long list of organizations. Mark

can fill in further, but there are literally hundreds of organizations that

benefit from the Cultural Economic Development Program money.

MR. FRENCH: I think it is about 116. Mark, you could speak a little about

it probably, could you?

MR. JONES: The Cultural Economic Development Program is basically two

main components, arts and heritage. On the heritage side, there are about 115

community museums, archives, and heritage associations. On the arts side, it is

everything from the Trinity Pageant out in Trinity to the Grand Bank Theatre

Festival. That is the main activity for that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can we get a list showing the breakdown as to what

groups get the money and how much they received?

Under Arts and Culture Centres, 3.1.02, could someone explain the revenue

piece that is referenced there? Is that actual door sales when you have events

and stuff?

MR. HAYWARD: There are two components to the revenue. The federal

revenue, we were budgeted $75,000 and it came in at $445,000. Basically, we have

some partnership arrangements with them to do the $75,000. The $445,000

represents the feds coming on board. I think we had around $800,000 worth of

repairs and maintenance or upgrades to our Arts and Culture Centres and the

federal government came to town in December with a $400,000 donation or

contribution to support the upgrade of our Arts and Culture Centres. The $3.1

million going to $3.275 million relates to government putting around $375,000

into the Arts and Culture Centres during this Budget. That will bring in

$175,000 more in revenue. So, the ticket sales are provincial revenue and the

federal revenue is some small contribution agreements we have with them with the

infrastructure upgrades, sir.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just up above that, when you talked 06. Purchased

Services, last year budgeted $3.5 million, spent $3.1 million, this year

budgeting $2.9 million. Of the $3.1 million spent last year, I would take it

that is for the different groups that were booked and acts that were booked to

provide entertainment at the Arts and Culture Centres around the Province?

MR. HAYWARD: That is correct, Sir.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can we get a breakdown as to who exactly received

that money?

MR. HAYWARD: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Moving over to page 178, Historic Sites Development.

I noticed, under 3.1.06, $200,000 had been budgeted for Professional Services

and spent just $7,600. Any particular reason for that?

MR. FRENCH: The decrease of $192,000, relocation of funds for the Grants

and Subsidies for the exhibit at the Colonial Building. There was money taken

from there and spent on the Colonial Building for exhibit design am I correct?

OFFICIAL: That is correct.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You only spent $7,600 out of the $200,000.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. HAYWARD: If you look at those two lines in total, there was $200,000

budgeted up in Professional Services and $1.2 million in Grants and Subsidies.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Right.

MR. HAWYARD: The Rooms is managing the Colonial Building restoration

project for us. After we did the Budget in 2010-2011, we realized that that

$200,000, the bigger part of it should go down with the $1.2 million. Then if

you look at our revised number in 2010-2011, we paid out that amount to The

Rooms to do the Colonial project. The other $7,600 was some small miscellaneous

charges.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just following down in item 10. Grants and Subsidies,

$1.2 million, you spent $1.4 million, but nothing budgeted this year. What

happened to spend that kind of money that is no longer going to be spent?

MR. HAYWARD: These are financial kinds of questions and you have to keep

an eye on where it is allocated. If you recall, basically we budgeted $1.4

million for the Colonial Building in Historic Sites Development last year. This

year, as a result of reviewing our budget, we have budgeted $2.8 million over in

1.2.04. We talked about the Colonial Building earlier.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. You just shifted where you classify it.

MR. HAYWARD: Really, it is a capital versus a current account discussion.

Last year, there was some exhibit design so they qualified that as a current

account in Historic Sites Development. This year, because of the nature of the

project on the Colonial Building, it is going to be a major redevelopment. They

budgeted it in the Capital account on page 174, 1.2.04, for the Colonial

Building.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Under Special Celebrations and Events, there was $125,000 budgeted, $250,000

spent and $150,000 budgeted for this year. Can we get a list of exactly who got

what grants and subsidies last year for Special Celebrations and Events?

MR. HAYWARD: Sure.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can someone explain, what are the criteria for

getting that money? Is there an application process or do you just take a

special letter? For example, if a community is having a come home year this

year, should I, as an MHA for example, who is approached by a community having a

come home year, do I just need a letter sent and give to the minister and say,

look -

MR. FRENCH: Actually, what you are talking about there, there is an

actual application that you can have filled out and if it meets the criteria,

which is basically a cultural event, so come home years very often made the

grade because they are promoting cultural music, crafts, whatever the case may

be. Very often, there are no big amounts of money, but it is usually small

amounts of money available for that. As a matter of fact, most communities in

the Province avail of it. I should not say most, that is not correct. For

example, I just had a conversation with the Leader of the Official Opposition

for a come home year in her district, which I just told her how to go about it:

you get the application on-line, fill it out, and submit it to the department.

It is based on a budget, so that is no problem.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation, the $3.5 million

this year going up to $5 million, is that where the Republic of Doyle

MR. FRENCH: Yes, that is the extra. We did not increase that fund and

just took Republic of Doyle , obviously it would have a big impact on the

rest of the industry. So because the $1.5 million is going to the Republic of

Doyle we put an extra $1.5 million in it. Because if we took $1.5 million

from $3.5 million, it would have a negative impact, obviously, on the whole

industry because it is more than just the Republic of Doyle feeding into

that amount. So, that is the reason for the increase.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I will come back to that Republic of Doyle

thing later on when we do some more general questioning.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: In recreation, Minister, you say, generally,

Community Sports Facilities I am looking here at page 179. There was $10,400

budgeted last year and I believe you explained to us last year as well, it was

the rink program and there was federal involvement in this. So, basically, the

$4.5 million that is coming now, is that just a flow through from what was the

previous agreement?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, that is correct.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Is there any money in your budget for new

recreational facilities in the Province this year?

MR. FRENCH: No, but there is in Municipal Affairs. There was an

announcement in the Budget of $30 million for recreation infrastructure, so it

will funnel through Municipal Affairs like all municipal capital works does.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What would be the rationale for having it under your

department for one program and then under Municipal Affairs another year?

MR. FRENCH: That is an awful good question. I was never able to quite

figure that one out myself because it all goes through Municipal Affairs,

generally, the application process, because they deal with the infrastructure to

the different towns; but for whatever reason, the funding was parked in our

department for the last three years of which we officially monitor, I guess, or

sign off on. The work on it, I guess, it would be fair to say is done through

Municipal Affairs. They do the assessments and so on.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: We have gone through some of the details; I am

referring now to the number of employees in the department. I am wondering if

you can make a general comment because I have noticed from the figures there was

a little bit up and some down. Could you give me an overview as to where you

went in terms of employees this year? One, I think, had seventeen personnel. On

page 123, the total on the numbers there, General Administration looks like it

was down by

MR. FRENCH: What that was, they took a piece what is the correct term?

What are they called?

OFFICIAL: They are called Corporate Services.

MR. FRENCH: They moved Corporate Services. Our department had its own

Corporate Services, so now they fall under Municipal Affairs. Correct?

OFFICIAL: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: They moved the full piece of Corporate Services to the

Municipal Affairs division. I think there were trying to bring all Corporate

Services together under one department.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So there was no downsizing?

MR. FRENCH: No.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: It was just a move from one department to another?

MR. FRENCH: That is right. There was no loss of jobs or anything; it was

a movement.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I have asked you about the Marble stuff. We just need

more snow, I guess and the Colonial Building.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On the Republic of Doyle piece, there are

obviously people in the community who think it is a great move, it supports

culture, the filmmaking industry, and it employs a lot of people, particularly

here in the St. John's region and so on. A lot of money goes into pockets that

get circulated, but some people think it is not necessarily the wisest bang for

your buck or whatever. What form does this money take? Is it an outright grant

to the people who produce the show? Do we take an equity position in this at

all?

MR. FRENCH: It is an equity grant. We get equity in the film. The

Newfoundland Film Corporation, through the equity program, takes a piece of

equity in the film stake.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What is the equity we have in the Republic of Doyl e?

MR. FRENCH: We have the potential to get money back as a government. The

odds of that happening, it takes four to six years for that type of a program to

make money, to show any kind of generation of revenue. I guess from the business

case perspective, for the $1.5 million we are getting $23 million in investment

in the whole series. I think it works out to $10 million or $12 million of that

alone is in salaries. It is a significant economic boost from the business case.

From the tourism side of it, a promotional piece, obviously. It goes across

the country. We get almost a million viewers; I think they averaged last season.

It is prime time right across the country. So it certainly promotes the city. I

remember seeing a few comments on it actually, about: Why can't we do this in

other places in the Province? I would love to see it all over the Province but

the way this piece is written, St. John's is almost a character in the movie. I

would love to see them take it all to Conception Bay South and shoot it, but the

reality of it is that cannot happen. The Streets of San Francisco did not

show the Naked Cowboy in New York because it was part of the show.

I think from a business case and a tourism case it makes total sense. The

revenue generated thing, like I said, that will be four to six years out before

the show builds and grows. What we are doing here is not uncommon throughout the

rest of the country. If anything, I would think that some of the bigger guys in

the industry probably have bigger pots of money to support these kinds of films.

Twelve or thirteen weeks is the mecca to have something like that, an hour show,

in your community for the third season now, which is great.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Are there any private investors in that as well or is

it all government money?

MR. FRENCH: No, no, it is not all government money. They would have

private investors as well.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Does government also provide tax breaks in addition

to the $1.5 million?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What does that translate into in terms of a dollar

value?

MR. FRENCH: If I recall correctly, and maybe Mark could speak to it in a

minute, but my understanding it is based on local labour market. It depends on

how many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians you employ before you get it back in a

tax break at the end.

Mark, maybe you could -

MR. JONES: Yes, that is correct. The tax credit is administered by the

Department of Finance. How it works is the eligible labour, Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians who work on the set, there is a certain percentage. Basically, to

be eligible you have to have Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. There is a

certain cap on it and that basically makes up a piece of the financial structure

for the entire project.

For example, a Republic of Doyle season may be $21 million or $22

million. Our equity investment through the Newfoundland Film Corporation is a

percentage of that. The tax credits can be used and is used to leverage other

funding opportunities, through either financing and through other funds. It

makes up a part of the total financial framework to make a film project or, in

this case, a television series come through.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: This is our second year investing, or third?

MR. JONES: This is season three, actually, that will be shooting in July,

with a date of January on the TV.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I do not know if anyone else is having a problem with

your listening device, but I am it seems.

Can you give me some idea of what the tax breaks have been worth,

dollar-wise?

MR. FRENCH: That would not be a problem. That is public knowledge. I am

sure we can find that information for you.

Oh, wait, Mark might know it right now.

MR. JONES: Per season, the tax credits would be between $2.5 million and

$3 million. Each season will be different because it is based on the labour, but

that is in the range for each of the three seasons. Now, of course, it is only

season one that is done and in the can, so to speak; season two is coming up

now. They will be submitting their application to the Department of Finance in

the coming weeks, if not months. This is post-production application, obviously,

because until the project is finished you do not know how much labour has been

local.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: If it costs $21 million to produce the series, we are

in the range somewhere of possibly $4 million to $5 million if you add the tax

breaks and the $1.5 million.

MR. JONES: That would be correct.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: We have a fairly substantial investment here of

anywhere from 20 per cent to 25 per cent in that series.

MR. FRENCH: That would depend, of course, on employment. Just to go back

to what they do in other provinces, this is quite common across the county.

Everybody is into the tax break, and like I said, we are actually on the low

end.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes, I am not knocking at all the fact that the

department did it, not at all. I am just trying to get my head around exactly

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You talk about supporting our cultural industries and

so on, just exactly what we have invested here and how far government was

prepared to go to support such an initiative.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I have no qualms at all with what the spinoffs are

whatsoever.

MR. FRENCH: There is a cap on the tax break as well. Is it $3 million?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: Yes, there is a cap on the tax. The maximum they could

achieve is $3 million per year. I do not know what it is in other provinces. In

Ontario it would probably be $5 million. Why does $5 million ring a bill?

OFFICIAL: Some provinces have a higher cap, others have none.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: A famous one; I don't know about famous, but the

Olympic Games. How much did we actually spend from this Province to participate

in the Games?

MR. FRENCH: Okay, let me see if I can get this right now. Do you have the

number, Mark? Is it $3.5 million? I can almost add it up.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Maybe, Minister, in the interest of time, if you

could provide us with a list of the Olympic related expenses, exactly what was

spent and what it was spent on.

MR. FRENCH: Yes, no sweat.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Talking about special celebration

MR. FRENCH: Not to take up too much time, I think it was a little over $3

million. I think we had budgeted $3.4 million and we spent $3.2 million, is the

total package. That is roughly where it went, but I can still give you the

breakdown.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes, I would like to have the breakdown, if we could.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can we get the breakdown as well I want to talk

about community recreation and sports grants.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You must have an overall

MR. FRENCH: As long as you fellows do not show it to my colleagues on

this side of the House, I have no problem.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: - list of who got what during the last year.

MR. FRENCH: No sweat.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

In terms of Special Celebrations, what is in the cooker right now for special

celebrations in the Province? We had Cupids.

MR. FRENCH: Well, as you know, there is a huge piece coming up now with

the 100 th anniversary of the Beaumont-Hamel. That is something we

have just barely scraped the surface of. That is something we are looking at

doing down the road, making a significant event out of it. There are a number of

things you can do to celebrate, not only Beaumont-Hamel, there are a number of

different battles, the coming together of the Blue Puttees, for example. There

is so much there, from a cultural perspective that we can celebrate in this

Province. That is kind of where, as the minister anyway, my head is to. I think

it is something that we should bring - everybody should celebrate it. It is

something we should have an education component to it. That is where I am to on

the special celebrations.

So, I would like to see that become a significant event. I guess then we have

the Titanic celebrations as well. I do not know if it is a celebration,

but we certainly have a significant piece of the Titanic in this

Province. There are some planned celebrations currently. I know out on Cape Race

they have started. We have been working with them internally to see where they

go from here and whatever we can do, of course, to help promote it. I think they

are planning a convention here as well.

They are the two main ones, I would think, that are in the hopper. There are

some significant events too. I know there is a traditional music symposium

coming here this year, which we have committed $100,000 to in this fiscal year.

So, that is something else that is going to happen.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Under your Access Strategy that we talked about

before, there was $5 million allocated for that. Did it all get spent?

MR. HAYWARD: My understanding in that is that is a three-year program of

$5 million, and 2011-2012 is the first year that we have funded that. That is

budgeted in the Department of Business as well. So it is really the first year

of the funding allocation. It was announced last spring-fall, and the

applications are starting to come in now on the arts.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That was supposed to encourage new routes; am I

understanding?

MR. HAYWARD: That is correct, yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So, has there been any success or measurable success

so far, or it is just getting

MR. FRENCH: It would be in its infancy right now.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Any particular ideas where you want those roots or

would like those roots to be?

MR. FRENCH: Well, there are two pieces to this. There is the business

perspective, I guess. From a tourism perspective, we have a number of markets

that we figure we are better in than some other areas. Obviously, the Eastern

Seaboard is one of the areas where we get a lot of people coming from. We have,

in the country, Calgary, Southern Ontario, Quebec now, Montreal, I believe, is

another market we are very interested in. We do some work in the UK, to a lesser

extent, we say, than the Eastern Seaboard. From a tourism perspective, these

would be where we would love to see people making presentations to us and

developing roots.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I believe there was supposed to be a private industry

advisory committee as a part of that strategy. It was indicated that a private

industry advisory committee would be struck.

MR. HAYWARD: That is correct, sir.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So has the committee been struck?

MR. HAYWARD: It is in progress, I believe. I saw something on it just a

few days ago, but I will check into it. It is in progress, yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

MR. HAYWARD: Are you on the committee with the Department of Business?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: They do not let me anywhere near the Department of

Business, sir. I poked some much fun at it in the last six or seven years, I am

not welcome there.

The TODS program: I am wondering where we are. We had quite a discussion on

it last year: where it was, where it was headed, the cost of doing it, people

who had signs all over the place, some were torn down, some where left up. Where

exactly are we now with TODS?

MR. FRENCH: As I told you last year, I believe, we had the two

demonstration projects approved and we started off, we did the Bonavista

Peninsula and we are doing from Deer Lake to Wiltondale as well, in a

demonstration sort of way. The idea of it was that we would go work with the

local groups, the tourism operators, the businesses. In the Bonavista area, in

particular, we have held stakeholder meetings on top of stakeholder meeting and

we have worked through most of the kinks. They are currently up and running with

the TODS system. Deer Lake to Wiltondale was all slowed down because of Igor,

significantly. We were postponed three or four months.

The idea of it, what I had in my mind, was to put in these two demonstration

areas to work with the people, see how it would work, to give it a full year

cycle of tourists through the system and then get feedback and see if there are

ways we can tweak it, improve it. I know there are a couple of little things

that we have done already to tweak it a little bit: directional signage and so

on.

What we have done this year, we will wait - I think September this year will

be the one-year anniversary, so then we will go out and meet with the

stakeholders again to find out the problems and see if there are ways again that

we can improve it. Now in this budget, in the meantime, we have continued on

with the TODS program. Although, we had only asked for a small amount of money,

we did get approved for $128,000. What that is for - you have probably seen one

in Clarenville is the new TODS signs on the side of the road. These would just

be the directional signage. This will not be the fingerboards as such; this is

just the big blue ones with the different directional signage, basically. I

think there are sixteen of them across the Province going to be in places, I

guess, mostly around the access ramps. I know there is one on Salmonier Line,

for example, would be the closest one that comes to mind.

It is rolling along. We are doing it very, very slowly because we want to get

it right. We would like to do it a bit faster of course, as always, but as you

can imagine there was quite a bit of unhappiness with it first when we started.

I think people are starting to buy in now the importance of it because it is

and I am sure when we get our exit surveys back the number one biggest

complaint that tourists have in Newfoundland and Labrador is our signage.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, the campsite reservations system, does that

come under your department?

MR. FRENCH: No, the Department of Environment.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I thought it was too. You hear about that one quite

often too.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Games, I notice you have announced the location

of the next three sets of games. In 2012, summer is in Carbonear-Harbour Grace;

2014, winter is in Clarenville; and in 2016, summer is in CBS - a hometown

favourite, no doubt, the prerogative of being the minister. They are all East

Coast I noticed. Any particular reason why? I do not see anything there

Labrador, Central or West Coast.

MR. FRENCH: The last three games were west of Grand Falls. The last three

sets of provincial games have been west of Grand Falls, so I did not see it as

being biased to anywhere else in the Province. To be totally frank with you, we

had five applications, all of them could have hosted games but twenty years ago

Carbonear-Harbour Grace are getting the first games. It will be their

twentieth anniversary for the games. Two years later, it will be Clarenville's

twentieth anniversary and two years after that it will be Conception Bay South's

twentieth anniversary. That was the rationale behind picking. I did think, first

of all, of course, it probably would not have happened unless we had there

were three, like I said, west of Grand Falls, so it was not like we were biased

to one part of the Province or the other. The main reason the three of them were

picked was because and twenty years ago, believe it or not, the three of them

were announced at the same time. That was a first, and I thought to repeat, to

have a twenty-year anniversary

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: A repeat.

MR. FRENCH: A repeat - we announced three of them together again.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On the tourism, the car rentals piece, what happened?

We were going to do a study on the car rental business.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Is that concluded?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, it is concluded. It is a public document.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. Can you fill me in?

MR. FRENCH: Basically, there were a number of things that came out of it.

Well, right now, this year in our VICs, if I recall correctly; we are now going

to have in our VICs across the Province a clearing house, for lack of a better

term. If you are a tourist you can drop into our VIC and find out where there

are cars available in the Province; that would be one thing.

HNL, for example, right now has - there have been six or seven car industry

people who have joined HNL. One of them is now on their board of directors. So

we have opened up a whole new communications line that never ever existed

before. Now we have both industries working together to try to figure out the

problems. Because really, as much as we hear about it and I hear about it, there

is that window that is short; two week, three-week window is the biggest

problem. I am told that is not uncommon in other places as well. It is at end of

July, first week of August type of stuff.

The other thing we are doing is having a symposium and bringing together the

industry. Is there a date set for that yet? Probably not. That was the other

piece of the study, to bring the people back together. I guess the most

encouraging thing for me - one of the things, obviously, is the clearing house,

but the main piece to me was bringing the two industries together, and that

never happened before. I think there is a better understanding from a tourism

perspective and a legal rental as to what is needed and the problems that both

are having with it. Of course, I guess it is no secret, that now the industry is

encouraging people who book with them to book cars early. It is part of the

conversation that was not there before, which you probably would get anywhere

else in the world if you called and mentioned a vehicle.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, Marine Atlantic - a favourite topic of

mine, of course, since one of the home ports is in my hometown. Do you have many

meetings annually, sort of thing, with Marine Atlantic? They ship a lot of

people in here.

MR. FRENCH: Yes, I meet with them quite regularly. I met with them quite

a bit when they were talking about the new - prior to and during the new ferries

being announced, I met with them quite a bit.

I meet with HNL pretty well every month, and Marine Atlantic, I do not know

when I met with them last. I think I had a phone conversation was the last one

and that may have been but we are in fairly regular contact, is the best way I

can put it; certainly more than every quarter. It would probably be every couple

of months.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: We hear when something goes wrong, even if it is

weather related. Many times you hear people on the Open Lines expressing their

frustration. It seemed that the infrastructure they had, the boats was probably

a cause of some of it, mechanical failures and breakdowns. Hopefully, that will

be alleviated. Does your department get many complaints direct from tourists who

complain about Marine Atlantic? If so, how many would you get in the run of a

year?

MR. FRENCH: I do not know about how many, and I would not be able to tell

you the number off hand. I tell you when I get them, they will come in clusters.

Obviously, if there is a breakdown at the terminal usually you can count on a

couple of weeks after that you will get several letters of complaint because

they were stuck on one side or the other for three or four extra days that they

did not plan, or they came to Nova Scotia and the boat was broken down. It is

usually around an incident, it is not usually consistent.

I have not had a complaint probably since peek summer season last year. It

would have been the time I get complaints. The biggest issue and the biggest

problem I have is capacity. My biggest issue and the feedback I was getting was

the capacity piece. That was something I shared with Marine Atlantic on a

regular basis. These two new vessels now, hopefully, will alleviate and is

supposed to alleviate the capacity. If I recall correctly, I believe it is

supposed to increase capacity by 45 per cent or 55 per cent.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: So, this is their chance. We joke about it but this is their

chance to get it right. They have these two new vessels. Twenty-three percent of

our tourism traffic is rubber tire traffic. It is slowly declining over time

because people now prefer to fly versus drive. That was the way of old, but

still, over 20 per cent of our tourists come by rubber tire. It is a significant

piece for us and one we share with them regularly, our concerns. Every letter

and complaint we get, we do share it with Marine Atlantic. We do not shield them

from it.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On the whole, would you say your relationship with

Marine Atlantic and the level of service they are providing is okay, good, not

so good?

MR. FRENCH: I can pick up the phone at a moments notice and speak to

Wayne Follett, and that is the relationship we have.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Are you pleased with the service they are providing

and the explanations they give to you when something supposedly goes wrong?

MR. FRENCH: Generally, yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: How do you feel about the service they are providing?

MR. FRENCH: Obviously, there is no one happy with the service. If you are

in the tourism business no one felt happy about the service over the last number

of years, certainly not me, but like I said, I am optimistic. I am not going to

go out and slam them for the next there are going to be a few kinks, no doubt,

they have two new vessels. Because the more we grumble and complain in this

Province, of course, the worse that makes it. If we are trying to sell a product

here, we do not want the rest of the country thinking our ferry system is in

total shambles. Right now, I am promoting our new ferries. In three months time,

ask me that question.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: See where it goes.

MR. FRENCH: I could be throwing rocks at Marine Atlantic, but for right

now, I am promoting our new ferry service.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On the VICs, how many students do we hire each

summer, or how many do we have hired all together? I realize there is a

rotational piece, they come and they go.

MR. FRENCH: The total number, I do not know. I am thinking twelve or

fifteen maybe. Is it twelve or fifteen, or something, in total?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: It is not a huge number, I guess, because it is

basically Port aux Basques

MS TAYLOR-ASH: I could not give you the number right off the top, but it

is not a huge number because we are just hiring for the visitor information

centres that are run by the Province.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: And they would be where?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: They would be in Port aux Basques. There would be two in

Deer Lake; there is one at the airport and one on the highway. They would be in

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Argentia?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: Lewisporte, but it is Notre Dame Junction, and

Clarenville, Whitbourne, Argentia, St. John's.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS TAYLOR-ASH: At the airport, correct.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, you mentioned the defibrillators - and I

ask this question because of some issues I ran into in terms of defibrillators

to police departments. I am not sure if you are aware of it, but under your

program, I believe, you are putting free defibrillators in any recreational

facility in the Province that wants one?

MR. FRENCH: What we have done, we have given this whole process it is

the Heart and Stroke Foundation's because they started this program, and as

ironic as it was, we were doing a piece of work on it when they came to us

saying that this is something they wanted to do. So, they do the training, they

do the selection, they do the processing, we give them a grant. That is what we

gave them, a $100,000 for the last the first year was to put them in stadiums.

This year it is for swimming pools and recreational facilities. It is their

decision, I guess technically, of where they put them.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes. I am just wondering if you had any discussions

around the issue of possible liabilities. I will give you the background to

that. Some group wanted to give defibrillators to volunteer fire departments in

the Province, because if a fire department got called out, for example, in Isle

aux Morts and they had a defibrillator, and they attended at a scene they could

use it. They would be trained to use it at the scene. The fire department was

saying: Well, are there any limitations on this? Because if you are properly

trained, for example - and it does not have to be a fire call, you do not have

to even leave the truck - can somebody in Isle aux Morts, for example, pick up

the phone and call Sidney Scott, who is the Fire Chief, and say: Look, we have

somebody over here on the ball field who needs it. Would you guys come over and

do it - or whatever?

Apparently, the Fire Commissioner, Mr. Hollett - there is a whole controversy

surrounding the liability for this thing, that if a fireman uses it while he is

in the process of a fire call, on the trucks and whatever, is called out and

there is an immediate need, yes, they can do it. There is no issue; they are

covered off by the insurances of government, but to use it otherwise, then in

your volunteer fireman's official capacity there is an issue of, they could be

held liable for using them; and that has not been resolved. I am wondering if

there was any thought about that. Because if government is funding the provision

of the defibrillators and if this possible liability issue is out there, I did

not know if you might have had the same problems in your or if somebody

brought it to your attention, as is happening in Municipal Affairs, the Fire

Commissioner's Office and the fire departments?

MR. FRENCH: No. It seems like in the initial meeting we had with the

Heart and Stroke Foundation that came up. Actually, I cannot recall how it goes,

but if I am not mistaken - Mark, you might be able to add to this - I think

their national organization pays for the insurance, or covers off the insurance

and the risks related to this. I think it is their national body which has that

looked after because, obviously, as a government that would be your first

concern.

Because we give the grant to them, they are distributing the defibrillators

and their national body now I know anything can happen, certainly, but they

are pretty foolproof today. You cannot even fire them off apparently, if they

are not in the right place on your body. This is how accurate they are.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

MR. FRENCH: If the heart is working, they will not fire off. There are

all kinds of safeguards in the machine itself, but I know it is their national

body that Mark, would you like to add anything to that?

MR. JONES: That is correct, Minister. The Heart and Stroke Foundation is

the key to this initiative being as successful as it is. It is a national

program, a national initiative; the provincial branch, obviously, affiliated

through the national. Part of the provision is the training, is the protocol,

and is the follow up. An example of that is that the Heart and Stroke Foundation

have been in contact with and liaise with the Newfoundland and Labrador Medical

Association on this. So those pieces have been covered.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I would just like to clarify, Mr. Chairman, as well,

when I requested copies of the information, Ms Michael is not here tonight, but

I am wondering if that could be made available to her as well? It is usually

circulated to everybody who -

CHAIR: I do believe that would be usual practice, Mr. Parsons, yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

My final question for the minister is: Are you going to give everybody a

pedometer? Because they are in wild demand in this Province, I can assure you. I

think it is a great idea. Lots of people who even exercise fairly regularly

think it is a great thing and they have gotten their families involved and their

kids involved. I am just wondering if there has been any thought given to - this

is probably albeit a small item but a very positive initiative when it comes to

wellness and recreation in our Province. I do not know if you have given any

thought to that because that, in my view, would be a very justifiable, good

expense from a recreational department.

MR. FRENCH: A lot of the rec communities and so on around the Province

now have been doing it. Actually, it was one of the things we talked about

through this whole exercise regime, finding a way to get them as cheap as

possible for different groups.

Like I mentioned to you earlier, we had a group in Gambo, for example, who

had 500 they were looking for. No, I have considered that. I am trying to find a

way actually to probably do something, some kind of a promotion whereby you, I

do not know, maybe you would commit to do 10,000 steps for two or three months

and you get your free pedometer. I do not know the answer to it but it is

certainly worthy of note.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I have nothing further, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Are there any other questions for the minister?

If not, I would ask the Clerk to call the subheads, please.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Shall 1.1.01 carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CLERK: Subheads 1.2.01 to 4.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall 1.2.01 to 4.1.02 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.2.01 through 4.1.02 carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Department of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation carried without amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, total heads

carried.

CHAIR: I want to thank the members of the Committee for their

participation tonight. I thank the minister and his officials for answering the

questions that have been put to them, and I would remind members of the Resource

Committee that we will be meeting tomorrow afternoon at 6:00 p.m. here in the

House of Assembly to debate the Estimates of the Department of Fisheries and

Aquaculture.

With that, I will ask for a motion to adjourn.

MR. POLLARD: So moved.

CHAIR: Mr. Kevin Pollard moves to adjourn.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: This meeting is now adjourned.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.