t }'ay 25, 1976 Tape 2890 IB-1 The Fouse met >Jt 2 :f'lO P .r·. ''r . Speaker in the Chair. Order, please: I have been info:rll'ed that there are some forty Grade IY. students in the Fouse of Assembly from the Glovertown F~gional High School. They are accompanied by their teachers, ~r. Sparkes and ~r. Feltham.

I knm~ all han. members join me in welcom:lng these young people to the nouse of Assembly and in expressing the hope that their visit here w:fll be an interesting and informative one. !lear, hear: I have also been informed that another group of ~tudents, fifty-three in n~ber,from Foxtrap Junior High School are present. They are accompaniec by their teachers, r-~r. Best and fo'r. raymond. To thP young men ani' women from Foxtrap Junior High School as well the .Pouse extends a sincere welcODie.

S()I'E fi(lN, l'ro'Jl!'l" S : Rear, hear: STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS : _!'l' • SPEAKF.R: The hon. ''inister of Fisheries. l'r. Speaker, I am very happy to announce the awarding of two contracts that are very important to the distr1ct of Placentia. The first one being a contract awarded to Hynes Construction of nunville for the construction of a community stage at Li ttle Harbour EAst • ........... The amount of the contract, Yr. Speaker, is for $157,000.

The facility ~<' :1.1.1 he a t"~>~O story building, The top will have a lunch room and office facili.ties and space for fishermen to use for nettin_g anc! for repairing fishing gear. The first floor of the building viJl have an area set aside for salting fish, for the processing of salt fish, for the packaging of herring and,hopefully, for the E'Stahlishl'lent of a filleting line. The fi~her.men's committee will be undertaking negotiations with a fish processor to estahlisb a filleting line and the Department of risher1 .es wHJ lease the f.11cility then to the proc:essor wh0111 the fishermen w111 decide upon.

According to the latest figures, ¥r. 8561

j. ~·ay 25, 1976 Tape 2RQO IB-2 ! rr. ~~. C.All.TF.r: Speaker, there are thirty-e:lp;ht fishermen in Little Harhour East and 1 1'!:1 ght ac"cl all r.;ooo f:l shermen, mostly year round fishermen. Their total landings for 1975 were in excess of 1 mill:!.on pounds of fish for a total value of $100,000 plus quite a substantial lobster fishery as Tvell. The second project, }':-. Speaker, conce1:ns the awarding of a contract :!.n the amount of $51,700 for the repair and upgrading of -----------a co!T'!l!uni ty stage at ~'erasheen Island, Placentia Bay. srwE HON. }'Jl~'llEllS: Hear, hear! ·~.

"1 . rAPTEP: Merasheen Island, Yr. Speaker, WIIAS resettled some years ~go but despite that thirty fishermen still f:lsh in the area during the Summer and approximately fifteen continue to fish through the ~':Inter. In fact there are three or four longliners in the area all year around. These fishermen, Yr. Speaker,produced 2,000 quintals of sa] t fish last l.J:Inter, 2 ,OOt' <1uintals of salt fish •dth a total value of approx:!M.ately $80,000. ~·r.

Speaker, because of the activity in the area anc1 the productivity of the fishermen, the department reali?.ec' that the fish ltahdling facility on that Island is necessary and that the expenditure that we have undertaken there will certainly go a long ~'1lys to bringing it back to a condition where it '~ill become a viable fishing operation. I'T'. N~ARY: There is no possibHity of moving the people back there? ~11'. F. CA1'TEP.: No. The repairs, ~r. Speaker, will involve the p;enen!l upr.rading of t~ facility, walls, roof, doors, windows and mak:lng some repairs to the floor.

SO}IE HI)N • '<El''BF.P S : f!ear, hear! 0 0 0 ' '11 • SPF.AKF.T' : The hon. member for Twillingate. t·'r. ~peaker, I welcome the announcement ma(~e by the hon. p,entlem~tn, the "inister of Fisheries, and I wonder if he could ....___--...... tell thf' 'lnuse hmr many other cases there are of settlements l,eing t>vacuate-c1 b y orr,an1?.ec1 effort as part of the

~ay 25, 1976 'rape 2890 IB-3 i'T'. s~·ALtm:xm: as part of the centralization programme, how many other places there are ~~ere the people have moved out of but come back for the purpose of the fishery because that was part of the whole theme, the whole phi1osophy of centralization or relocation of population, that a place Might be very good for fjshing but not so good te live in all the yr>ar a:r·onnd, not !'O good for the children, not so good to get teacherr>. not so eood to p,et hospital or nursing services but good to produce fish in the fishing season though the people doing the fishing might live somewhere else for the bulk e>f the year.

The people of Flat Islands '..tlich was called Port Elizabeth latterly Fere insjstent, absolutely adamant in their determination to move off the Island and go in on the main. Now they did not want to go to any other place that already existed. They wanted a new place altogether and they choose a place whose name I forget. Y.~. NF.ARY: T'ed Harbour. !:1'. sv~U..u;rnon: l'eil flarbour that is right. They choose a p1ace called T',ed Harbour and imdsted that they should go there and continue to be a separate community of their own but that they shou]d be able to continue fishing.

Now to ••hat extent - I wonder if the minister can tel] us - to what extent is that characteristid Are there very many places from Which the people have mpved themselves or with help or evem without he1p hut Who go back' there to fish1 For instance.,how many islands in JJonavista Bay? Po they still go out to Fair Islands, to nragg's Island, to Creens Island, to Hare Island and so on and so on, Flat Islands? Do they still go out to - well not the outer Gooseberry, I dare say the inner Gooseberry - do they still go out fishing though they live somewhere else?

Could the minister give us some light on this extraordinarily faacinatin~ subject regarding a place good to earn your living but not necessarily good to live in and rear your family in? 8 s I) 3

!-fay 25, 1976 " R . lo/, C"AP.'l'f.l' : ~m . SPF.AKE1': Tape 2891 IB-1 ~·r. Speaker, I am not able - Order, please: I realize the han. 1'\ernber is about to reply to questions asked by the han. gentleman for Twillingate (~r. Smallwood) and the han. member for Burin-Placentia (Mr. r.anning) also was going to co~ent on the ministerial statement. So tvhat I was going to do ,,ras to reco~ize the han. gentleman to my right and if there lVere t hen questions they could be answered at one time by the !'i.ni ster of F~ sheri.es. The han. member for Burin-Placentia .

IW. r.ANNINC: llr. f:pe,ker, ><erasbeen Island is my home, my former home. That is where I was born. ~nd I am delighted today to hear the minister's statement. I thin! < it is another case that is a clear e:xarnple of hi.s go:lng :In the right direction. There is quite a story that I cannot tell at this time about the Island of ~•erasheen. It 1vas abandoned, l'r. Speaker.

The orig:lnal idea of Herasheen by the government that I ~ras involved w:l.th was it was supposed to be a place to centralize. ''erasheen Island was in the center of Placentia nay, a Jarge is]and, tNenty-one mi]es long and about five or six miles Hi cle, nine miles "' :I de in its ,yi~est part. It had a wonderful harhour and it v•as cental in the bay, not too far from Cape St. Mary's. Tt has been a v<>ry important little settlement rlown through the years.

Rut lvhen I was gro winB up the people from the other islands and the pe ople fro~ the bottom of the bay both West and East of us cnme to }'erasheen to fish during the Summet season. I think it was with that knowledge or that infomation that tHe government had at the time, or the Department of Fisheries had at the ti.rne, that inspired them first to go to !~ erasheen. They set up there a salt fish plant and at the time it was comparative to the one that the hon. minister is setting up at Ad,.,1.ral 's r-each except this, at a later date, will be more rnoclern:l.zed. l'r.

Speaker, for today we put - 1w . s N;r::unnn, Houlcl the han. gentleman allow a question? He said that to 1'erasheen IsJ and fi.shermen came from other islands,

ffay 25, 1976 'tap- 2891 IB-2 ~ • S~'ALLYJOOD: other parts of the bay. Do they still do that, to fish? ~'R. CANNING: No, ~~r. Speaker, they do not do it. And what is ~ore the center did not attract these people. Unfortunately, perhaps, I clo not kno~~. But that ~1as the general idea, that the people in the smaller places where they had ten or fifteen families, so~ places as low as three families who were fish1.ng, we thought they would land their fish there because they were within a radius of not more than ten miles, fifteen miles,at the most, away.

But that was the general idea. ~fuat we d:fd there, what the government did there, ~·e modernized the settlement as much as we possibly could at that time. We brought them electr:l c:l.ty. l~e had built there a road where they could fish in Pinter and Summer because out of Little Merasheen you couJd fish in Hinter, a more sheltered area. And it was a place v1here herring wa"l pretty plenti.ful in the Winter at that time and of course the outer grounds from Cape St.

Mary's in, Nerasheen Bank, anybody who knm,rs the bay, '>.Thite Sail, Bennett's Bank, Oderin Bank, and other banks in the vacinity out to the Southwest of the Island. But what we d:!d there was we mede the place - we gave them what facilities we could at that time includ:l .ng electricity and the plant itself. The plant itself cost, I think, somewhere around $50,000 or $60,000 at that time in that vacinity, somewhere between $50,000 and $80,000. There was a wharf there. 1-le had pumps there and eradually morlernized it, what we could put there.

We had Fishery Products come there for a few years, first collecting fish then landing ice which is something the minister :!.ntends doi.ng this year, I think. 'Perhaps they have done a little of H in the past few years. In other '1-rords, :Mr. Speaker, we tried to make a model station with hopes that it would attract the people frow the other areas and the center would grow to perhaps 5,000 or 6,flnO people. But it did not happen, Mr. Epeaker. Strangely enough the peopJ e there were doing ~rell. They made more !'Ioney.

~'ay 25, 1976 Tape 2891 IB-3 ~W.. CA.'ffiiNG: They had better fiah. They vrere co-operative. But they moved, Mr. Speaker, which is one example, r•r. Speaker, of the fact that the p,overnment din not entice those people to move. They d:!.d not order them to move, ~ey never told them to move. I never mentioned mov:!.ng to thel" because r.re T'1atle the port as good a port as they would have r,otten on the mainland or better because they were nearer the F:fsh:!nr, ~rouni!s.

But anyway the trend there ln the bay wh:!.ch had gone on for ahout fifty or sixty or seventy years, people moving from isolation caught on and they moved. Now, Vr. Speaker, clear proof of this, that they were not enticed to move, they "'ere not asked to move, they were not even paid to move, is the fact that they moved into Placentia and the government decided they ,,rould not help t~ell' to move because they did not think it was a good idea. They were not given any money to go there until such time as so many left that we were compelled.

I myself went to the government and said this, I said, "The people of 1-'erasheen are goinr. to move. They are mov:!ne. They have been moving for years and the p,overnment no''' ahould to prevent any shacks heing huilt or poor houses heing bui.lt in Placentia area -: that l),a$l Whete !dtby ,,,ere r;oing, that <Jas their. riJ?ht. I asked for the grants that were given and :It was given to them. Mr. Speaker, since then they have returned to the Island, grai!ually. Ahout seven years ago there were two or three people v1ho went hack there. They went up to five.

They have gone to twenty And novr they are there fishing the whole season around. I am glad to hear the m:!.nister today announce that he is go:lng to keep that plant po:lng and there is money for it to be kept in repair. And 1 'Wl!'h him all the luck with it. near, hear! 'ffi. SPE.I\Kl\11: "!'he hon. ~~inister of F~ sheries. ~m. W. C'.APTT\P: "~"r. Speal<er, T. am allowed to respond to the ue~tion put to l!'e by the ~on. l!'ember for Twillingate. I am not able o give t~e House ll complete l:!st of places that have been resettled

"~y :lS, 1976 Tape 2891 IB-4 ~'1'. T.T. r.Al'.'T'EP: from where fishermen now f:lsh - !'1'. POBEP.'l'S: •w.. f·1. CARTER: ~e-resettlerl. Yes re-resPttled. I do know- 0n a seasonal h~sie. MR. 'v. CARTE11: 0n a seasonal basi1;. I know of course that Meraeheen - Tacks Bead~ I thinl: was a resettled area and there are fishermen going hac~ there for Job1;ter and other fish. MR. LUNDRIGAN: ,..,.. • W. CARTEl': Development ''1'. NEAP,Y: around. Wood's Island. Woods Island, my colleague the Yin:l.ster of '!'ural There are tr.vo families on Wood 1 s Island aJ 1 year -~~ CAFTEP.: - vis:lten llood's Island - "T'.

S l'"·'DNS: Fooc1y Island. ~'1'. t.J. rAT'TF.T!: - Woody Island a few weeks ago where some very interesting tb :lngs are taking place. tfy colleague here, who is a former native of Fl~t Islanrl, Bonavi.sta Bay, tells me that people go 1->ncl: there during the Summer and fish and 1 of course, our other colleague from "erasheen, and Woods Island I think it is in Bay 0f T!'lands - MR. LUNDRIGAN: ~"P • W. CA'PTEP : Pight you are, yes. - several places in Green Bay, Round Harbour and other places where people go back, places that have been resettled but are now the location of SOl'le seasonal fishing operations. !'R.

SPEAY.:I:l': rr.. LtlNDPIC:AN: Hear, hear! '!'he han. Hinister of Rural and Inrlustrial Development. l·fr. Speaker, I would just 1:'-ke to table the results of the most recent meeting of the Rural Development Authority where ttoenty appl :!.cations were approved for loans totalling $250,000 and creating forty-njne permanent jobs and twenty-seven - MR. SMALLWOOD: Totalling how much? I"P. T.UND!liGAN: Two hundre~ and twenty-five thousand, twenty 8567

"ay 25, 1976 Tape 28!11 IB-5 t-<R. Ltmrrr.tu'<: applications approved, forty-nine permanent jobs, tventy-seven seasonal jobs • Nine of these had ARDA grants involved ~ch will be join tly announced 1-y the '1-'inist er of J>PJ;P. and l'lyself. I could go on and give so~ cletails. lo!R. SIM!>!ONS: '''e want the details . ~IP. Ltl!'ln~'!CN': I will have some of the information cl:lstributed to the nous~ when copies of this thing can be taken off.

There is more detail, I think, th<>.n T. have given in any of the recent statements. l•'e have about 100 loan applications pending at the moment, about 100 loan applie8tions and about seventy grant app lications . T thtn~ memherR should realize that under the progra~e we have the rural Development Authority has the authority to loan at the present l'loFent $L5,000 in the way of a direct loan which

May 25, lCl?f>. Tape no. 2892 Page 1 - mw '~r. Lundrigan. can be amortized over a five year period interest free. '!R. S'IAT.LHOOD: Up to $15,000? I"R. LlmDRIGAll: Up to $15,000. There is also a small grant programme which is a federal/provincial fifty/fifty cost-shared grant which usually relates to industries of a particular type, manufacturing in particular. And of the twenty applications that were approved nine of those qualified as well for grants.

But I do not mmt to "'ention the arRnts at thP. moment because I think it is only fair for me to ~tllnv.' TT\y federnl colle<",;ue as ~rell to participatP. in the ~tnnmmcement. l'nd secondly we 1dll Mal:ro <tnother announcement later rm flhrmt :J.nnther ARDA grant which will stimulate or at least make " f:frT'l h":c.inn:!n~ re"ardlne>; thP eel industry in this Province. Nou some of the grants and loans that have been approved, I will just r:tention some of them, Hr. Speaker, seeing the l;<~onnn.tlon ls acing requested. There were forty-nine permanent j,)bfl anti twenty-seven se.:1sonal jobs.

It is the best variety of .:tpf>llcations t~1at we l1ave received since the programme started, slnc"' the J'.ural Development Authority programme started. So;ne of them .u·c very, very novel as '.IlJ colleague fror.1 Bellevue (l!r. Callan) can ."ltte5~. I will just ;;;ention some of them. One is a loan for an iaJuscry ln the Lonavista :;ay area, $15,000 on the erection or the ~xpansion of: a hog raising industry, which is very, very succesful at i:hc mo'llent. A total capital cost of $22,QO( for the expansion. He loan $15,080.

There are two full-time jobs and three part-time j oLs involve .l. l-Ie have a sound recording industry situated on the A'est Coast to esta0lish a recording studio to try and prevent til(! e:{jJOrt o[ a lot of our Newfoundland talent, the recording talent, to be done in Toronto where there are ~illions of dollars being •-"'~C off i'ewfoundland artists out oi Toronto. This project involves the setting up, uy three ~~ewfoundlanders, of a sound recording industry. It involves ~12,000 on our part,witl1 a $24,000 capital expansion or capital investment. There is also an ARDA grant involved. Another 85il

~fay 25,1976. Tape no.2892 Page 2 - mw :lr. Lundrigan. type of industry is a paper product 1 s manufacturing industry in the Central Ne,,rfoundland area for the expansion of new paper products wlth foreign markets involvec at a total capital cost of $61,000, building on an existing industry which is already very successful. We loan $15,000. It creates five full-ti~e jobs. nr... Sl1ALL!VOOD: The paper will be fabricated? MR.

LUNDRIGAl': Yes, it is using existing paper which is already manufactured in Grand Falls to process or remanufacture i?-to a more finished product, There is also an existing industry there that has been successful in doing a similar type operation and it is being expanded to meet an international market. There is no ARDA grant involved. Another one is on the Avalon Peninsula, $15,000 to reactivat(' and expand on an existing tourist facility that was one time very prosperous and has slowed down considerably. The bon. member for Port de Grave district would perhaps be interested in that particular one.

TI1ere is $15,000 involved. There are six full-time jobs. The existing individual has put $80,000 of his own money into it. >'!R. NEARY: What was this? }1R. LU~DRIG AU : It is a tourist facility. ::m. SltALLWOOD: What do you mean for tourists? ~IR. LilliDRIGAN: Its cabins and development of a tourist area, a very beautiful location, and it is certainly one that we feel will be very prosperous in that particular area, !!r... DAWE: In what particular area is the hon. minister referring to7 1m. LUND!UGNI: Well the hon. member for Port de Grave (Mr. Dawe) will know.

There is another very, very novel type industry that we have leaned $12,200 for, a $24,000 capital cost, ~n ARDA grant involved is for the fertilizer manufacturing. S~10

~l.'ly -25' 1976 Tape no. 2892 Page 3 - mw smm liON. r;mmERS: Hear, hear! '!r-. LUNDRIGAN: The markets have been established . ~~R. NEAR',{: - fertilizer. ~. LUNDRIGAN: lvould the han. member wish me to allow him to respond now or is he just interjecting? llR. NEARY: Go ahead. :·1:" .. LL'NDRIGA.~; lie is just interjecting. Seriously) this is a very serious project. There li.as been a great deal of participation by the Federal ft.3ricultural Department in this project. A great deal of experimentation hRs been clone. A very reputable company has supported the marketing of the product.

There are four full-time jobs, and it is involving processing of poultry manure, dry peat, quick lime and so on to pro·duce an organic fertilizer. Sl'li\LLlmon: Drying it and bagging it? :·iR. LUNDRIGAN: Yes. We are very confident about it. It is a novel thing. It h:1s never been done to our knowledge - :r~. S:J\.LLWOCJD: It is a marvel that it ifi if nn .... ~-- l.'""nri'. "1' .. LlT:PRIGN1: - successfully before. HR. Sl'!.ALLWOOD: Where is it at? r~ . LUNDRIGA~: It is located in an area where there is an abunuance e>f the ra-.· Baterinl required. The hon. gentleman from Twi1linace (Mr.

Smallwood) can attest to that. !•ry_, Sl':.i\LUJOCD: l]ould the minister indicate where the P,eat is to come from to dry it? •m. LU:-IDRIGAN: ?1o, ~lr. Speaker, I cannot. But there has been·- a problem with getting the proper dry heat required as a - what would you call it? - one of the required materials necessary, but tl1ere has been some new t'cchnology developed in the world, particularly in Finland to be able to accommodate that particular problem. Another industry that we have supported is on the Avalon Peninsula area, a $24,000 capital cost. We have loaned $12,100. 8571.

'lay 25, 1976 Tape no. 2892 Page 4 - mH ~'r. Lund;ri 0an. It involves two full-time jobs. It is the manufacturing of polished stone products. And if anybody would care to look ' at th,:, uisplay case in the lobby you will see some of the best polished stone handicraft that we have in the Province today, and it is not the only good quality product that we have. The member from Bell Island (Mr. Doody) or representing Bell Island and the member representing Windsor-Buchans (Mr. Fli2ht), \~ho is not here, can perhaps attest to the quality of that kind of product that we are manufacturing in the Province.

We have supported the project, and ,,,e are very confident about it. I would like for hon. members to look in the display case just to see the quality of the stone handicraft that is beip.g devel!lped. We have supported the expansion of a very successful industry in the Burin·Peninsula area, wood working, roof trusses in particular, $11,600, two full-time jobs and the hon. member representing Grand Bank (Mr. Hickman) can indicate that the business is very successful. Historically it is a very successful business, and we are happy to participate in it.

In Hestern Newfoundland we have loaned $6,000 for tourist facillties, particularly in the hunting and fishing aspect. Another small loan of $2,000 to help a hospitality home on the Avalon 'Peninsula. That is a special programme that we have with a maximum input of $2,000 for tl.e hospitality homes. Furniture, refurbishing: We have loaned $12,300, a capita] cost of $24,000 with an ARDA grant involved. and thai business is also very successful.

Sawmilling in Central Newfoundland, in the Bonavista ~.")rth area, a loan of $7,500 for a $25,000 capital cost, -vrhich will supplement an existing mill and help decentralize their operation to the point where the woods operation will be independent of the sawmill operation as much as possible. Electric sign manufacturing, the Avalon Peninsula 8512

Hay 25, 1976 Tape no. 2892 Page 5 - mw 'lr. T.nndrigan. to take advantage of a market, two very qualified persons involved in the electrical field, that can meet what is an c~iSting solicl market demand. One of the beet sign painters in the Province £.-om Carbonear - I would like to mention the na~e of this particular area,directly in the Carbonear area. ~·1e have loaned $6,200 for an existing enterprise that is able to expand and we are very confident, and there is very professional '.mr 1,. involvroct.

In r.entral Newfoundland we have loaned $30,000 to s uppo;t .~n industry, vith eighty-four people involved, but it Hill not mcr-m eighty-four nevJ jobs. It will mean supplement in!!: :"Xis tin~ jnt>s . There are actu .;lly seventy-five full-time and one part­ tine jol1 iTtvo1verl. '.ffi. NC:ARY: I~. thilt sa,•'lllilling or what? MT>. LUNDRIGAN: That is involved in timber harvesting. Electronics servicing and repair for the Avalon Peninsula area - tL~re is only a $3,600 loan.

That will be expanded •.ve think relatlng to electronic equipment hopefully to supplement the ability of the particular area to meet the deiilands of the fishing t r.t!ustry f or ele ctronic equipwant. 'J:imber harvesting in the i:ionavista !Jay area, ~15,000, a $33,000 capital cost; $12,000 on a $':!.7, ~00 capital cost for sal>ll'uilling and finished lumber prot!ucts lr, the Trinity Bay area ; fish processing L1 St. ~~ary' s Bay, which is always gootl r'L ews for the hon. wember in a district that has not really gotten its full measure of benefits under the progr~e, lJ<.;Cause I guess there has not been the number of applications, $15,000 that involves the herring industry- and wood working in the Bonavista Tiay area of $15,000 for two full-time jobs.

SOIIE HO :~. MEl'1BERS: Hear , hear! ! :Jl .• LUNDRIGA."l: And another little sm;1ll one, $1,500 for another very small supplementary type of lumber operation. 8573

.4!y 25, 1976 Tape no. ~ 89 2 Page: 6- mw ::a. ~Y: Is thnt the complete list? :m. LUNDRICJ'.:•: : That is the complete list of twenty. Your Jl..)nour, there were somet hing like twenty-six loan appl ications received, five where t~e have to make minor adju st:len~ s, twenty of lhe twenty-si :;: \-lere approved. tie think thl!y ate w:ccilcnc applications . Actually in recent months the response irom the public has been somewhat overvhelmin~,; , and 1 woul~ l ike to sort of draw out my colleague's attention in Treasury Boaru to that pa rticular fact.

We are trying to get tl quicl:. tura a round perio d , and we are not happy with the turn nroun d period . It is three and four and five weeks. We would like £or it to be a little less than that, because we feel thal t he tlurpose of t his pro~ralllme is to be quick and responsive and Clex iblc . ~nfortunate l y, we cannot approve eve ry application we receive , aad \le try to base it on people we think have some L'lCt'edie;.::s for success and h opefully based on people Lhnt have alrc.1dy had some proven success in a particular field . r.om: noN. ::P.J;n..:;·s: i:lcar, hear: 857~

'Tav 25, 1971\ '!'ape No. 2893 NM - 1 ~. SPFAKrR: The han. member for Burgee -Bay d'F.spoir. 'ffi. SI'1J'10NS: Well, Mr. Speaker, it is good to stand again and ~~elcome the announcement about additional j ohs. We on th"ls sidE> are alHays pleased to hear of any effort to put the puh lie's monE>y, or the money from the public treasury ~nt o creatin~ addi tional job opportunities. If 1 were to t\ tlH• time th:~t he did I woul d collllllent on some of the !'•'lrti cul .~r 1.t e rrw , some ,inte resting ones there.

I suppose the one that c;ttche!'1 the :lmagination most, both of me and the ;.!inister of Transportation and Communications is the one for sound recording on the Pest Coast. It is not a well known fact, Mr. Speaker, thnt the TTi:lnistcr,<'lmong his many talents,of course,is a singer n.nd '1as an album recorded and I hope - '·<!> HHITF.: H i.s a single. It :l.s a single. lo<!!. SI""'f0NS: - particularJ.y - without my band he did it too, "'1'r. ~peaker. ~- RORERTS: No wonder it d:l.d not sell 'Roger'. ~tr..

SIWofO'll':: I hope particularly for the success of that industry on the West Coast because, hopefully, the Minister of Transport:ltion could r:et hack to his first calling and, :~t least ~ in that situati .on "the public could turn him off when they ITimt to . . ~ut to the larger subjf!ct, ~r. Speaker, there are some inter~stin~ projects ~n there. I listened attentively to wh~t t'1e minis tcr had to say about the nature of the projects. l•ie are still not really in a position to adjudicate. the o-;erall effect of the programme.

He are not really in a pos:l.tion to judge whether tho; loan decisions, or decir.ions to grant loans are in keeping with tlw. spirit and the law of the Rural Developt!lent Authority hecause we an not bein~ given the full information. We are being given some fairly selected information from the mitlister and,of course,he is discrete enough that what he choos 'es to select out for our consumption is the kind of thing which is pretty impressive

·~ay 25, 197fi Tape No. 28'13 N'~ - 2 MR. SIMMONS : and on that I congratulate him. I hope that the information b.e is tabling today is the kinrl of information we have been asking for for a couple of years, namely (1) the name of the applicant, (2) the community, (3) the category of the loan application, and (~) the amount of the loan. And I say to the minister again, it is not enoup;h to do otherwise. It is not enough to stand and give us the choice tidbits.

We would like to have all the infonnnt1on, M"r. ~pc>aker, not all but the kinds of information I have 1ust suggested again so that '~e can, as the legislators here in the Province, make an impartial ad.1uc!ication as to whether the money is being properly assigned and whether the programme is being properly ourHued, Tlntil we get that !<ind of information we in thr Official Opposition arc not in any better position than before to deci~e whether the programme is being properly administered or whether it still has the overtones of a slush fund which 1t did have originally. MR.

SPF:AKPR: Tile hon. member for Twillingate. HR. SMALLWOOn: Mr. ~peaker, I commend fhe hon. gentleman, the minister, for the statement ne has made and I congratulate him on the number of little industries that he has announced. The total is something around FlO Jobs and believe me, Mr. Speaker, every .1 ob, not lllO i obs, but every one job created in Newfoundlan ·d is a triumph, is a victory and a badly needed victory indeed.

These arc not spectacular enterprises, they employ two or three or five or eight or ten men or women or men anrl women and in one case we had twenty or th:l:rty people employed which is a pretty respectable size for a new industry creating jobs at which people can earn a living. I was especially interested in the minister's announcement 8571

' f:Jy 2'i, 197f; Tape No. 2893 NM- 3 •m. S~·fALUJnnn: of a little industry to take poultry manure and peat hop; and to nry both, to dehydt"ate both, mix them C~nd TMke a manure for lawns and g;ardens of which,in our T'rov1.nce,there must be scores and scores and scores of thrmsnnds of dollars worth used, all of it imported into the Province. llm·r we import into Newfoundland about a couple of m1.Uion dollars worth of poultry feeds, grains of one kind, cerals of one kind and another, grown in Western Canada, ground up into meal and mixed in certain proportions, bagged nn~ hroup;ht into the Province.

A couple of million dollars of 'lC'HfoumlJanrl money going out of the Province to produce an1.ma1 and poultry feeds. Now these feeds are brought in and they produce eggs, they produce broiler meat and they nroduce pork and they produce beef. They also prddlice manure. Now the beef and the eggs and the broilers and the mutton and the 1amh are all consumed and are not lost but the mAnnre for the most

part is lost. This is an industry which is to take the manure and dry it, dehydrate it, take the moisture out of it, the same with peat bog which we already have here, we do not have to i mport, mix the two, hag it and make manure for lawns, for lawn grass and for ganlens. The only thing that leaves me stumped is the cost of dehydrating it. The cost of creating heat is growing ever ~reater. Whether you use oil, or electricity or any other k:!nd of artificial heat you have to have the heat to dehydrate these two raw materials.

I was hoping the minister would tell us what that was and perhaps if he would be willing to tell me privately who it is, where it i~ and some of the detail of it because I desperately hope that it is sound and that it will succeed, because God knmvs we have the raw material. ~ii'e have the manure and we ~ave the peat bog. If these can be dehydrated economically, 8577

:ray 25, l'Hf. Tape No. zg93 mr- 4 t{R. SMAT.L\WOD: mixed and ha?;ged and sold, then you have got a little industry that may employ tlJenty or thirty people in the course of time. !1R. NEARY : Then we can start ermil'ing mushrooms. MH. SMALLHnon: I do congratulate the hen. minister. If he can give us thnt information I am sure the House would be interested to hear it. 1·1R . SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Industrial and Rural Development. ~'-fR. T.tTNDRlC:A, The concept the hon. member is talll:in~ ahout is a very big challenge - 'IR. ROBF.R'rS: A point of order. ~!R.

SPEAKER: A point of order has come up. ' 11'. . r.tOl'P.PTS: I no not: begrud~e the l'linister the chance to say ~~hntever he wishes to say but we have already been twenty or twenty-five minutes on a statement. Then the bon. gentleman representin~ other parties have the rip;ht to comment,and I realize that the minister has a right to respond to questions,but my nnint of orCier is thiR, Sir; lJould Your Honour let UR have a CJUestion he comes a de.hate hecause if sa a 11 of us Pould like (" to get into it.

We ltave now spent, Sir, forty minutes of the four hours t~at the llouse l;il.l sit this afternoon, on two ministerial stRtements, hoth of wl,ich have an importance in their rwn r.tr,ht, J,ut surely, Sir, not of sufficient importance to 1ustify this sort of time bein? spent on them. T am quite willing to hear ~ihatever the mini.gter has to say ;mc.1 indeed Rm 1 coking fonmrd to it, but I wonder, Mr. Speaker, if there oup;ht not to be some Hay ~l,at this 1'\atter cannot be tnken care of in cebate or in the Oral Question ~eriod instead of on this Ministerial Statement thing. '!R.

LUNDRir.AN: nn that point of order, !1r. Speaker. 8578

'fay 25, 197(; Tape 'fo. 2893 HP . ST'J\AKF.R : I will hear the hon. House Leader on the point of order. nn that point of order, Mr. Speaker, it is customary for the minister to be allowed to make a brief comment or explanation in response across the House but I / ~vill go further and say, }fr. Speaker, that that is to be used very, very sparingly and should only amount to a word or two. If questions arise out of a Ministerial Statement I feel that they should be put in the Oral Question-Period "'r. Speaker, and c1ealt vrith there. !"R • LUNDR Ir.At! : ~tr. Speaker, to that point of order. Nl-f - 5 "ffi.

SPF.AKER: The hon. ¥inister of Industrial and Rural Development. _./.._:m. L ffiNRIGAN: In view of the hon, Leader of the Opposition's ·natural shyness about good news I will refrain from any comment at this moment and solve the problem completely.

Hith respect to the point of order in this respect, not in all respects, in this respect the practice in the Le8islature, ~hoth through its precedence since comments on Ministerial Statements hRve heen permitted in recent practice,and in this rP.spect our rract i ce is sir.:ilar to that in the House of Cor.m~ons .1nd the. coillJllent of Jleauc'hesn~ there reads, "V.lhen a l'linister makes a statement on government policy or ministerial administration it is n9w firmly established that the Leader of the Opposition, or the Chiefs of recognized groups," and here I should add our practice allor,.;rs a member speaking on behalf of one of those, so s ;~ clt people, "to ask explanations and make a few remarks".

Nm: t o make a fel·l rem'lrks needs no comment. To ask ex71J ana tions; I hnve always interpreted if ar1 han. member has the right to ask explanations then presumably the minister should have a right to give brief replies.' 8579

l-lay 25, 1976 Tape 2894 IB-1 M]). SPEAKE]).: There would not be much sense in allowing an honourable member entitled to speak to ask for explanations if the minister were then left forbidden by the rules to reply. I would suggest that what would be permitted would not be a developed series of questions and .. answers as in the Oral Question Period but since an hon. member is entitled to ask explanations, then an hon. minister will be entitled to give a. brief reply to that request. The bon. ~inister of Rural and Industrial Development if he wishes. }Ill..

LUNDRIGAN: I still stick by my position that because of the Leader of the Opposition's propensity and proclivity to shy away from good news and I will - ~'R • SPEAKER: Order, please! Order,please! }iF.. LUNDRIGAN: - deliver lilY statement to the hon. member privately. ~ffi . SPEAKER: Order, please! The bon. gentlelllan was recognized in erder to give any explanation if he so wished. 0 0 0 HP.. SPEA.ICER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. ~'R • ROBERTS : Mr. Speaker, I do not have a report to present but I have a questlon of a point of order which I believe should be raised here.

On Friday the }linister of ~unicipal Affairs in his capacity as Chairman of the special committee which was constituted under Standing f'rder 8il (

a) presented a report to the House indicating the members to serve on two of the committees, I believe the Public Accounts -------Comm:!.ttee and the Standing Orders Conuidttee. According to our rules ------~4 (

c) is the relevant citation~Your Honour,of Standing . Orders, that those committees do not exist until the House has concurred in the membership. I notice there is noth:l .ng on our Order Paper today to indicate that such a motion is to be presented. I have checked the journals of the Ilouse and no motion was made or concurred in. 8580

!lay 25, 1976 Tape 2894 IB-2 ~ 'R. ROBF.ltTS: So my question really - I th:l.nk it is an oversight on the part of us all - but my question of the government House Leader - and this, I think, is the appropriate place to raise it, Mr. Speaker, would be whether he is prepared to move the necessary motion which is simply that the report be concurred in. I am not sure if it is debatable or not. But for our

part I l~ould undertake not to debate it. I think we want the committee appointed. But anyway I raise the point, Your Honour, for whatever is appropriate actfon. 1m. HEI..LS: What I tvill do, "'r. Speaker, is consult with the table on the proper procedure for that and we can do it probably and get it out of the way tomorroH or whenever 1t is necessary. ORAJ. QUESTIONS: 1'T'. SPF..AKET': The han. Leader of the Opposition. \j:-Mll. ROBE TS: Thank you, ¥r. Speaker. My question is for the }finister L 'of Fisheries. r It is one I am sure which he has anticipated.

Could the minister tell us the arlministration's position with respect to the reports- as far as I know that is all we have at th:!.s stage - the reports of an arrange~ent that has been worked out between the government of Canac1a, through the:l.r }<inister of State for the Fisheries vr.

LeBlanc on one hand,a.nd the government of the Soviet lmicn on the other hand, respecting red fish and in partfcular can the minister tell us t-•hether this arrangement ~r:!ll ensure a continuity of supply to the fishing plants particulerly along the Southwest ~oast that depend upon the rerl fish and that as we all know have been threatened with possible . closure. "'1'.. SPF.AKER: The hon. ~inister of Fisheries. MP • v!. CA 'PTF.R : Hr.

Speaker, I welcome the announcement that came from ~·ascot-• from the ~rtn illter of Fisheries that red fish, that ......__\,certain stocks t1nder the 11ussian, ICNA:"' quota would be coming back to Canada. Rut I am not sure that I like the method by which it was accomplished, with respect to the trading off of certain caplin stocks 8581

)'ay :7.5, 1976 Tape 2894 IB-3 1"'. W. CARTEl!: to the Russians in re~rn for these red fish quotas. I cannot directly anm.·er the question put to rne, ~fr. Speaker, because the quruttit:les have not been announced, the terms of t he agreement have not been announ ced . We are not avar e of what the ratio will be. For example, how much caplin are we going to all~ the Pussians t o take in return for how much red fish. ~~. ROBF.PTS: It may not be ton Eor ton . ).{R . 1~. r.A"RTEl': I suspect, lf.r. Speaker, tha t the quantity wHl be sta~gerin~ . r suspect that by no neans will it be a ton for ton t rade of f.

I h ave a f eeling that it will be many many t ons of caplin in return for a ton of red fish . 8582

Tape 2R95 Ill-1 '~. 1~. r'APTEP: There arP. certain <~srects of it, ~·r. Speaker, that I th:lnk !11Ust cause ROTTle concern. f'ne in that the area for which the quot11s are being tr11rle<1 , for examrJ e, the Hamil ton Banks, is one area where it is very, ''ery r'jfficult to have a close surveillance. You may recall, Hr. ~re~ker, that last ye8r the Port of St. John's was closed to the PussianR.

One of the prtnc1pal reasons for that action on the part of nttRFR ~v:!R the fRet that the russi<tns dj_d viol<tte their caplin <]nota "nc' the vi0lation :O!'lounted to about T heUeve 100 per cent. '1'hnt is so11'ethinr: ~·re have to he very careful about. ' aT!' not sure, for exa111ple, that r,anada should nm1 be refeT"r:lnl' the m:~tter to H~.A.'F' ~rhen <~ccord:lne to reports there is every 1 H-el :f_hnod th11t "e "'{}] he re,.,ovfnr ourselves fro1T' that body after. the ''ontreal June tneetin~ of ICNAF. r.erta:lnly if we are going to tfedare a 200 miJ e limit then we will have to disassociate from !CNAF • . \nother very :lmrortant factor which must be taken into account, •·r.

Speaker,and must he the cause of some concern to all Hewfoundlanclers, is the fact that carlin iR :1 very important fonc" f:lsh. vJithout caplin '"e cln not have :my coil and other specieR of fish. So certainly we c:mnot allow the T'ussians,or anybody for that tratter, to overfish or to ravP.ge that particular species. At tlw present til'lE!, T shouJ.c" tell the House, there are in excess of 1/1("1,(11')0 I"etric tons of caplin be:lng taken from our' ~ontinental Shelf ~rea. Of that 340,000 metric tons, l~r. Speaker, 2'12 ,000 metr:i c tons are being tal~en, at least supposed to be taken, by the T'ussians.

Jnd '"e have every reason to believe, and certainly Ottawa ~oes 1 that that amount is being upped, is heing increased considera1->ly by violat:!ons. Norway, for example; I think they take arotmcl . (ln ,'l'l~ ""etric tons. The unfortunate part about it is that r.an~IC1a is only no"' taking 30,000 metric tons or a very small percentar.e, actu<~lly less than ten per cent of the actual amount of cP.plin taJ.-en from tl1e Continental Sbelf. l'y ans•.•er, ~'r. Speaker, has been maybe too long but I tldnk the matter is sufficiently important to warrant a little 8583

~·ay 25, 1976 Tape 2895 IB-2 ~'ll. H. CARTER: elaboration. I have very strong reservations as to the method employed by the federal l ~ inister of fisheries to bring ahout the situation that ~e now have. I welcome the - I-'ll.. SMALUJOOD: His parliamentary assistant was virtually denouncing him today_, pnhlicly. ~'1'. W. CAllTET': I realize. I welcome the announcement that ~Je are going to ~et red f:l.sh. And again to answer your question it <1ill have a very, very beneficial effect on the future operation of our plants on the Southwest r.oast of the Province.

That aspect of it I welcome and I commend the minister for it. I am not sur~ and until I get the actuAl fisrures that he is talking about and the terms of the agreement, I am not sure I like or can approve of the deal as it appl:les to caplin. ~<!' • SPEAKE!l : ~!J'. POBEFTS: A supplementary. The Leader of the Opposition. ~~r.

Speaker, a supplementary. 1-Tith reference to the mi.nister's answer, and T thank the minister, I think it :Is a very fair answer, Can the minister indicate - he gave some figures of the total number of tons of caplin which are being caught each year and 1t seemed Hke an a.~vfuJ lot of caplin 1.ndeed - can the ndnister indicate whether the advice which he has is that we have - do we have any surp1us of caplin on the - I gather the Hamilton Banks is the only area where there :Is a caplin stock sufficient to justify fishing it - hut theadvice the rn:ln:lster has, do we have a surplus of capJin?

Tf so can the m:lnister give us any indication of the size of that surp]usr If we are catching - I think the minister sa:l.d - 3l10,000 metric tons of caplin a year, can the stock sustain that' That is the sal!'e question the other way around. HR. W. CA'RTEP: Yr. Speaker, T do not think that even the people in Otta.~ra, the fel!eral sc:lent:lsts and biologists can answer that question because there is another weakness in the whole arrangement. I do not think there has been sufficient scientific research.

I do not believe that there exists .qt the moMent sufficient scientific data to really des:l. ~ate Wh.qt wj]] be a sustajnable y:leJ n. I think - 0n the C'apJ :!n? 858~

T<!pe No. 21l'l,; NM- 1 'IT'. \-1. C'AR'l'FT': Onthr c<ml:!.n. J think., '·'r. ~peal·er, that it ·rs ct matter of stan~in<> :!.11 the dark.

We know what has The Russians are probably more t"an anvhor.l y E'l SP rnfJ ~y of 'l:ava~ing that stncl• and certainly T ·1n not t1,jn1· •·•c shon1.:1 allow it to honrC'n to thl' cnplin. lln0thrr vr·ry i l'l.portant point is that if r:anada had announced its intentions or even had taken the necessary nction to cl~?clntc a ~!)n mile limit then thi'l trade off would not have been necessary because we would then have control 0 Iw 1 <t77 WE! '''"ul c1 have cnntrol of the red fish stocks and other stocks on our Continental Shelf. MR. LUNDRIGA.N: .~nil the CC\]'J i.n • 'IJl .• H.

CARTl\1': .lmcl the caplin too hut - Is it not correct that even if we announced it now in "ontr£><!1 ·~e cannot take it for twelve months thereafter, ~ thi'!t not t'J.o JCNAF thing? \ is :...' 11'..:.·..:.·...;.:.1'..:.· _:.:r.:..:A:..:R..:.'l'T':..:·· ".:...· • ..:.= 'lo, '~r. Speal•er . Tt could be a federal a~reement. I.Te do not knoH . Tt r.nnld he a tr('aty. HT', 'lr'l13E'lT~: Tlut tl1.e ICNAF thing requires a twelve month out ns I undc:>rstanrl . t he TC''!AF agreement. l1R. 1•! . CARTER: tJo, '·lr.

Speaker • ICNAF must be served notice six months ;>rior to the end of a calendar year of a member nation 'a intention to H:i tl1 r lrm~ f:rom that body. ~o if notice is given at the meeting in ~ontreal - ''~' H. CARTrl' : :Jot'ice must be given. l'lotice must he given on the .Tune 3rd. mcetinr;. n "ortniF,ht from n01~ thE'n "e can he in control ''Y 1 .Tanuary 1 <t77, i5 that correct? 'IT'_ '·'. CA R.Tl\'1 : Yer.,hut if we do not serve notice at that June "'""'tinp: then ~~e are J.oc1ced into ICNAF for at leP.st another twelve T'lonths. But, Yr. Speal•er, I thin!< what has happened -' ·8585

'fny 25, 1971' Tape 'lo. 289fi PRfo"MIER >fOORES: The bilaterals agreed, "R. H. CARTFR: Hilaternl~, it seems to me that Canada, we appear to he too anxious to nep;otiate these bilaterals arid I am >ron<lcrinp:, you knoH, hy the time they are finished will there he any need for a 2nn mile declarationl In fact, will a ~n~ mile declaration he of any use to Canda, when we are going to be tradinr, off caplin fer red fish and allowing this country to fish for that species here and somewhere else.

I am afraid that what He are doinp; now just might preclude any benefits that lve could derive from thE' fomal declaration of a 200 mile l:!mit. '~. ROllERTS ' Iceland haR not found a J.,etter road. ~. SPf.AKER: The hon. l'lember for LaPoile . .'ffi. NEARY: "~-'r. Speaker, I Honder if the Leader of the Opposition had his time hack this morning if he would still make tt e st:1tement that hi" was dC'lip:htec1 ahout this announcement, and after hearing the off:!.cia] pos1.tion froM the minister. lvould the minister indicate to the House, because of the lack of survPilJnnce - :'.fr.

RODfP'I'~: He is pinning his faith to the Southwest Coast. nrrler, pleas<'~ nrder! "1'1 • 'Tf.~ PV : - becnuRe of the lac.!'. of surveil J ance in tr<' area h It pos~:!hJr. thnt thf' Russians may be trying to get at the cod in tll.1t ,-,_rpn npi1rt: f"rom t 11c caplin? Ts this a possibility1 ~1R. SPEAKER: The non. "ini~ter of Fisheries. 'lr.. :·1.

C.Ar:n:r.: J have nc> douht that there is a considerable cocl by-c:~.tch,for r.xample,and the l'amilton ranks is one of l'u' l<~st r:rcnt resource of coc~ left) T suppose 1in thE' 'lorthwest .~tlantic, in the Horl<: for that matter,and I suspect that tlwre 11ill bC? a consir 1erahJ e hy-catc'1 of cod. :Then you have J. riirect!'d fis;\et'y for a narticular species, for ex~ple,in this ci1:"1' ci1pl1.n, ;1o:.> lmm1, yc>u also C.<'.tch other species as well. ~or example, lvC know t"A.t certnin European countries are catching

''ay 25, 1971'- Tape No. 2896 "~. 1~. CARTT'T!: constdcr:1hle red fish, flat fish and flounder in their directed cod fisherv but I suspect the RussianA vi11 h@ usinr, the so:unc ploy • It will not only be the caplin that thev 1·ril.l ht' t:J.lcin;; b:1.clc to RUssia, no doubt there will he a lot n f cod fnr Phi.ch they •lo not have quotas am1 that are being caught ille?:itJ1y. ~1" .. NEA~Y: ' 1r. ~!'eake>r, a supp}ementary question. 'IT' . SJ'E.~YF.R: /1 sunpl emen tary. '~R.

Nl\ARY: 1·Joulrl. the minister tell the House if there wi] 1 he a strongly worded telegram or letter. of protest going off to the Federnl "linister of T'isheries or the Prime f.!inister of -( r ,,nada in connection 1vith making agreements behind our backs '"ithout prior consultaUon1 Ancl if so would the minister tell the llousP. if the minister intends to bring a resolution into the J:ouse to make it unanimous so that we can all get in on the act an~ l'rotest this sort of goings on. '·IR MORGAN: It cannot be unanimous;the Opposition will not vote for it. •m .. 1·1 . r.A~Tl\P-: "r.

Sneaker, I can say this much, tell the Rouse, '-{. t11ctt the ''inistcr of fisheries in 0ttawa and his officials •vilJ bt> well equated with the position of this m~nister and of the government an~,I presume,of the Newfoundland people, PRF.MJER ~!OnRFS: Jle ~~ill want to find out what is wrong. Mn. H. CARTF.R: Yes, I think he will ~e well aware of what our feclinr,s are hefore that agreement Before he gets out of Russia I hope. 'fR. 'L CARTER: - has been negotiated at the }lontreal T.C~I\F' nieetinr,. The hon. member for Eagle ~iver. 8587 ·'

~lay 25, 1976 Tape no. 2897 Page 1 - mw ~lP.. STF'J\CiL\~1: A question for the acting 1Unistcr of Recrcntion anLl Rchabiliation.

In view of the current crisis in the fuel situation in Nain, one of a number of recurring situations 1 I wonder lf the minister is now prepared to change his earlier publicly stated view that it is easier and cheaper to fly fuel into the community rather than to come to an agreement with oil companies on a shared-cost programme to build bulk storage facilities or, -as is done in the Northwest Territories and Arctic !Quebec, where the f:OVernment absorbs the total cost of the bulk storage facilities? t:R. SPEAKER: The hon. ncting Hinist~r of Recreation and Rehabilitation. '!r..

WELLS: This matter carne up during the Hinter and it has come up in years past many times, and this Winter the department [oun<l that the only t;ay, :lr. Speaker, was to fly in the fuel. At the time I said that t~e had, and government ha;l, for some time been after the oil companies to put storage facilities in, and the oil cm11panies h,'ld refused, v<hich is correct.

Since then the Labrador Services Division has been studying the matter and feels that it may be in the long run cheaper anJ better and more satisfactory to all concenlC'd for the Labrador Services Division to make a start on providin~ oil stor:l.[;C facilities. But the position of government ls not definite on ti1at yet. But it is the way the thinking is tending, that on a gradual basis something ought to be done along those lines. !1TL STRACll!JI: A supplementary. 'HL SPEAKER: A supplementary. ':r.

ST'·'.ACll.N!: I accept that position, but I would like - I do not know how I do this in the I;ouse - but if the minister HOuld table tn the House the amount of fuel flo'-1Il into the Northern community .<tn<l t~·.e cost per gallon to ship 't in by air freight, if this could be ~the t'n ~ tne season or if It can be given? The han. member for Lewisporte. HR. WHITE: l!r. SpeA-ker, a question for the Ninister of Transpor.tation rmd Comr,umications. I >mnder if the minister would tell the 1Ious" wlt"tller or not ltC' had a chanc" to visit the

section of the Trans-C:mad.:1 l!igi1w:1y 1•/c st of Grand Falls over the weekend and whether or 8588

i Tape no . 2897 Page l10t Lc iiltcrl ~~; to r : a~~c· c:u~y -tmprovements :..o t !1at are.:1 to.rhile tvc are 1:1lt lnr. for t~:r contracts to be l~et and t he Trans-Canada to be rcbullt? ':he hnn. Hini.ster of Transportation and Communications. ~~ • ~fORGAN: !:.r. Speaker, on the weekenn I did visit the area vhere the unfortunate accident occurred recently ana inspected the ·.vater levels, examined the water levels on the Exploit's Fiver and the damar;e tv the Trans-Canada Highway section, and also inspected the condition of the detour now being used.

A clecis£on - is bein3 m~d!' to the effect tl·.at tenders for the Trans-Canaaa il1.3hway upzr :uHn~ v!ill he completed on June 2, and a decision is noH being natie to carry out improvements to the detour and to consider pavinr:; it. l-Je have to look at the cost and to det•rmine the cost , we !·,ave to ask for bids from contractors and companies ill the area who do h<WC paving equipment. Hm~ever, it will be stipulated to the successful bidder on the highway upgrading that the Hark 1s to commence immediately, in other words shortly after June 2. SOME llON, !~~BE1'.S: Hear, hear! 'IT'.. SI'EA..'Zilr.: The hon.

Member for St. George's. MRS. ~nc· :- ' fr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Justice. 'I would lil~e to ask the minister if the:re is any truth to the possible n.mour that Magistrates Court will be moved from St. George's shortly? ~!I"-. SI'EfJG>:l'.: The !1on. '1inister of Justice. ~m. HIC!CWl: ! have not even heard the ~umour, ~1r. Speaker, and may 1 ~ssure the hon. nember that there is absolutely no truth th:1t this gre:\t ancient and historic courthouse will be moved from the capital of the West Coast, St. George's. <;miE !!()N.

Ml'.HDERS: !lPar, hear! t!P_ • SP ElliCE rr : The hon. member for LaPoile. MR . NEARY: !1r. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of !!ines and Energy, Sir. It is a very, very serious matter in connection 8589

Hay 25 , 1976 Tape no. 2897 Page 3 - mw ~·r. ~c:try . wi th 11 r erort that was released in Ottawa today by the federal Department of ~ational tlealth and \~elfare in connection with ~s, a $tudy that was done in all the various mining co=unitie!l across Can,d:t ;~here asbestos is l>eing mined. Does the minister have an :1dvancc copy and if not is the minister r.oinz to send immediately to get a copy because of the sp~cial reference th:tt is made to the mining of asbestos in Baie Verte :tnd the ~xposure , the health hazards exisitinc in that community at this pat·ticular moment? 8590

TapE' 7fl98 IB-1 }'R • SPEAKEr : Tl'e hon. l<:l_njster of Yi.nes and Energy. ':T' CT'0Sll TF.: "r. frP.t>l:er, T have not see.n 11ny fecleral reports yet on ~s~estosis or anything els~ of that nature. And until I or my -\--' nff1cinls do 1 cnl11d not ver:!fy or not verify that there was anything \ specifically sllj.d about 1\:de Verte. It is quite obvious,Hr. Speaker, that asbestos :f.t-self j, 11 suhstance that has to be treated with every c~re. There l1as to be the highest standards of health and safety.

Thnt is rea1~?.ec1 by this administration which has heen extremely acti.ve in the field of improvinp: health and Silfety fn the Province, far more than in earljer years. There is a committee of cabinet mjnisters and a sub-commi.ttee of officials who have reviewed the whole situation. There are reports now before cabinet. But I will certainly see i.f we have not nlreacly got a copy of this report that it is ol:>tained. ~.,.,. NEft.RY: A Rttpplementary.

Coulcl. the minister undertake, because ohviously the mintster c11d not ant:!c:!pate the question and neHher d:f ~ the minister seem to know very much about it, but the r report 1~as rele11sec1 this morning, would the minister undertake without delay this afternoon to get a copy of that report because the very lives of these people in the col"!llunity of Baie Verte especially the w0rkers '~ith the mtninz company are being threatenecl accorcing to this rep0rt. l-loulcl the winister nndertake to get it this afternoon? Call up rn the telephone if necessary and ask to have it sent do~~. }~.

S~FAYR~: The hon. ~e~ber for Terra Nova. ''1'!. U1SH: l'r. Speaker, a question for the Yinister of Etlucation. T won~er if the minister is in a po~ition to inform the Fouse whether or not his department has undertaken any systemat:l c effort to ~eterm:lne the succe~s or othenrise of the equivalency propra111111e? 1'11. SPF.AKF11: The hon. Minister of Education. >'ll. HOTTSF.: >fr. Speaker, I am not aware of the study to determine the success. Last year there ~1ere a considerable number of people who '"'rote the equ:Jv,"3.lency exall' and.of course,the results were very rewartling .\ for these people.

But offic:lall.y I do not know if there has been a forrnal ~tudy made as to the success of it. I will attempt to find out if ~hPTP has heen. 8591

l"ay 25, 1976 Tape 2898 IB-2 '1-'R. LUSH: A supplementary. I wonder also if the minister knows whether there is any attempt or whether there will be an attempt to have these r.En exams Newfoundlan~ normed because at the moment they are American nor~ed? I"T'. SPF.AKEP.: Tbe hem. l·finister of Education. ~'P . BOUSE: I ~o not think there is any attempt to have them standardize~ for Newfoundland. I think they are national, the same ones being used in other provinces of Canada. But again as I said 1: will get the information, what we have, on it and report back. liP.

SPEJ\10!:11: The bon. mel'lher for Eagle River. ~'IR. STRACHAN: /1 rmestion for the l~inister of ~anes and Rnergy. C-ould the minister tell us whether he has reached a final clecision oa whether or not to equa lize e l ectr i city ra t es wit h i n this Province? --------- And more specifically t o equal ize e l ectrici ty rates for the Labrador .........__.., ____ _ r.oast and other areas in Labrador which are supplied by diesel electricity? ~'1'!. SPEAK ·F : The bon. l'fi.n:f s ter of l'ffnes and Energy. MR. CROSBIE: l'r. Speaker, t'l-te electricity rates are equalized now .

In the hydro areas ,.,e have equal:! zed hydro rates. They are the same across the Province. MR. NEARY They are not. }<T). f:ROSBIF.: If the 'flon. gentleman will just w11H until I colT'plete ~~'Y :mswer. In the hydro areas we have equalized hydro rates. They are the same :In the C:f.ty of St. John's as they are in the coii'l!lttnity of St. Ph:! Jlips , find so on across the Province. r,'ith respect to diesel systems there fs a different rate system.

For the first 500 kilowatt hours per month the hydro rate is in effect and after that the rate increaseR and it is more expenf'ive than in the h"nro areas because the operat1on of diesel systems :Is fAr more expensive than iR the case jn hyrlro areas. As the hon. gentleman knows we have in the estimates passed by the Rouse , or hopefully soon to be passed by the Ho•me,the awount of $11 milUon to !lleet the coets "f tl1e rural system in excess of the revenue that is brought in. The estimates also inclurle $2.5 million 8592·

.. ny 25, 1976 Tape 289R Ill-3 C.l:O!:JH.f': for ccrta:ln neec!e1' enp:l tlll expcn<!:ltures in rural area~< where tl•e revenue i ~ not p ener~tec sufficient to neet those expenditures . In additio n :In t he estimates are :Included a nu~her of other millions of dollars of subs:lrl:lcs in connection with the general hydr o system so that the g overn~nt is alrendy heavily subsidizing the ene r gy costs both in and outside of the resional areas.

No11 10.·ith respect to t he question as to whether government has dec:lrled to institute any rate change in the diesel are as, the answer Lc; no the governl"ent ha:c: t!ecided there wil.l be no change. The Province cannot institute that change at this time . We will review the situation again next year . With respect t o the Happy Valley-~oose Bay nrea , as hon. gentlemen know ther e has been a contrac t awardee! to hring a transmission line to the Goose Bay-Rappy ~alley . area from the l'pper Churchill.

This is going to cost the people of the Province, and it will cost our credit, some $18 !Dillion to ~20 !Dillion over 8593

lay 25, 1:!71\ Tape no . 2829 P::tg<' 1 - mw :·r . Cr oshlC! . the nc:.;t tuo yc.lr<; . Th:1t llnc i:S expected to be finished in the P~ll of 1977 so th~t by the Fall of 1977 the people in the Happy Valley - Coose 'lay - North t4est lliver area will be tl~nt time, of cou r se, they will pay thz s~~c for thetr c~C " i.Y ~~ reople do L~ the other areas of the ProvL,ce t 1nt have hyoro ro1JeT . ,\nd tlult is beinr, done because it b possible to do it, and ~~e are doint; it .

Wj th resp ect to communi~ies :>lo:~:; the Coast flf T.libr ador, the hon . ::;entl<'m.:m lt:l~'s there is :~n ecor.omic or feasible ~~ay th'lt hyoro row"r c:1n 1-c dclivc-ccd to the:!!.. Tho cos t is simply out nf thn 'JUCctjnr . "'""~' ltv" i'l fll'l"ll. isolate-:! communi ties, and -;:hC'th<'T flr not some- dny in t'l"" future - '-''!.. S' I"T.J.\""10 : "nlc<:!' it coutrl j'l.;- trnn.,..,HtPd hy \'lh'"""· ~'>icl:t, or !1C"''<'how flnn;- t hr oneh th<> ni r :md Or f1'1 1""!; . ' I". r:ll/'1<:1\T';: "r fl:lnrs . TR t'l:lt ·.tirclC':;s? The hon . f!ll' tleman t!': be tnt; Vf>TY he] pful here .

T;1e posit. ~Oil iG i:l:.lt ~hey arc gOi•l:; L·~ ~)" oJ .. ..; L. ;;:!! sv;;tctnS for a !o:~g ti=e to com~ yet . ,\o'~ once tl.~ ao:~ppy Valley - l.ioobe Bay areQ ;;o~~ on t: ..... ..:ic~>cl syct::m 1'. conlliclernl>lc n;1mt.er of peOtllc 1.111 be t.1l .... l o[ f lt.. I = r:c-: ::w:-. o" t:.e e;;.:lc:: II'.IDb~r . r S;J[>po:;c to~Cr<~. ~<nu] rl tlh..:n . i."c'Jlcw :l1c s.L:..u:ltlon ll:lain a11d s..:c :tow many custo1'11ers :'IC;" left. •>~• Ji.ua.:l ar~n., anJ see '"'hetilcr we cnn :-c:1ch to c .• nngc ~:. : rntcs , ;ou :,now , an<i :::,en it .n:.:;,· t.e posslule .

So ''"' ..:Ul lt::vr .11\0L;•cr loo~. nt i::. nc:o:: year . :;ut tlte po:d.tion tltis year ls tl:at c!:c govcr~L'lent hn:.; come to the conclusion that t here can l•<: :'In cit'\:lfi<:. :;"'Ar.!:.• .. : : /'. supple~aenLa:.-y , !'r . Speaker . A supp l ~~eutnry . 8594

~fay 25, 1976 Tape no. 2899 Page 2 - mw :m.. STr.ACH.\:1: Could the minister undertaken then to look i nto t l1e SUl!l of n T'lillion , additional money, which Hydro get from the native fund, that is through the Federal/Provincial agreement, +money whi ch is given by Ottawa for native people within this Province, r and out of t hat $4.5 million Hydro gets $1 million; could he undertake to l ook i nto it and see how that money is spent and Whet l'rer it coul d be used to subsidize gar electricity rates1 }ffi. SPEAKER: The hon. Uinister of !.fines and Energy. MR. CROSBIE: rlr.

Speaker, that money, at least, the only money that I know of under that ageement that :I.e being spent is in connection ~ with improving and extending the generating facilities in that \ particular part of Labrador, improving the diesel generators or adding them or whatever. Now it may be possible that in those areas money under that agreement could be used to subsidize even more electricity rates. They are heavily subsidized now with the present rate structure,as I am sure the hon. gentleman understands. So that certainly could be checked.

For example, we have a situation there at Black Tickle now where the new fish plant is completed there, and they are going to require more power. It will cost- I think the figure is $600,000 to put in additional generating facilities. And the annual subsidy,if the rates remain the same, will be $200,000 a year, just to subsidize the power for -what is it? - 138 people residing at illack Tickle. This is the kind of thing that you get into, and it is very, very expensive. But anyway I will check and see whether monies under that agreement can be used for subsidy purposes. But there already is a heavy subsidy. ~m.

SPEMCER: The bon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speal-er, my question is to the Hinister of Public l~orks and Services, acting, Sir. Would the minister tell the House if the statement made by the Public Work's official, who was upset with the probe of the Health Science Complex's project, if that statement was made with the knowledge of the minlSEer or was it just a leak i n the minister's department1 The story leaked out to TI1e Evening Telegram on the weekend. 8595

~ - / Hay 25, 1976 Tape no. 28S'9 Page 3 - m w Tlte han. llinister of Public \iorks and Services. l!P. ROL'SSI:AU: The statemcr,t was part of an internal departmental document, and I v1ould assume that somebody got t!1eir hands on it. But it certainly was not an official statement by the person concerned. 1m. !lEArY: Hr. Speaker, a supplementary. r :r. SP"'"":t·J~r.R: A supple;l!cntary. l!R. NEARY: !las the minister undertaken an investigation to see if the official concerned, a t!r.

Brophy, did in fact secondhand? ilas he asJ...ed how the story or lgi.1ated 1 if ln fact it dill ori.ciaate in the -::inlster's depart!·ent? Aml if not would the r.dnist."r ;mdert::~ke an investigation to find out? MR. SPElu'..ER: T~1e lion. I!ii.n.ister ~ I have r:ot asked, !:r. :'peaker, nor \Tould it be my intention to ask. 1 l.nm; ''r. Brophy, :md I knmv hi'T'l to !Je an honest "Lan, 2.11l: I doubt very !Ilnch if he v;ou]cl Make that available. It is · just something that !!apr-ens every no~· and then. a""!.d SLJL:le~r"'..:Y ln til~ press pic1...s it up. It h'ar. only in one paper.

E was nuL released ofricinlly. An entcrrrising newsp'lper picked ~;uprlc~cntary question, Sir. T': ~mt\r.Y: Is the ;:~inister cotlcerne<l a:,out the J:act that ~his m."tter 1>ec:'lmc pu't>lic, an iaternal ~emo, in t!lat a civil servant is o'bjcctlt<:; to ~:1e atlllOU.1cemcut unde by the T'remier and a decision ta~c. ~"l h; the cab:! net - a civil servant ls objecting to this? He docs~~ it is t!1c rl2;~e Minister concerned about that, and has he discussed it with Mr. Brophy? . rm. ST'Ei\X~R: Tlw hon. minister. liT'. 'i.flUSSE!,U: lfr. Speaker, I do not know if tl, ings have changed :In the l~st few years.

I think this goverament relys on the advice of its officials ancl government has to make a decision. The advice 859G

:L"'y 25, 1 ~76 Tape no. 281)9 Page 4 - mw Mt:. V.ousse.; u. we cc t is not ah'R:,·.; the a dvic e we foll o..-. That is goveLOmeot ' s joh , and that i5 t~h::t w~ wet:e elected to do. So t~e have a Rroup of civil set:vao t s who have no fear of givin g thei r adv ic~. · t~ . :~\RY: So civil set:Vants nm t he Province now, and not the no ven~ent, not t he Pt:emie t:? Kit . SJ'E/I.!~ll: 'h'der, order! H'P.. P.OUSSfAU: It is very much appreciated . But when we get the. .:~dvicc from civil set:Vants,goveLOme nt :hen makes its decision ns to what course t :1ey ~o.<ill follow . ''R .NEI\RY: Titis wAs not advice .

This was a condemna tion of the government , not advice. MR. SPEAI<£R: The hon. ~ember fo r Bel levue . 8597 .•

~'ay 25, 1976 Tape 2900 IB-1 ~'I',. CALLAN : Hy question is for .the Acting }<inister of recreation. In view of the fact that in last Spring's, 1975 budget, there were nine areas of the Prov:l.nce namec1 as areas where stadia would be built, none of the nine was the district of Ferryland. Would the Acting ?'inister of ~ecreation explain how he can justify the fact that a stadium is going to be built in the Ferryland area this year when last year it was not in the budget and a freeze was said to have been put on the huilcling of all stadia ever since the Spring of last year? MR. NEARY : The by-election. MR.

SPEAKER: The Acting Hinister of Recreation. J'1R • <TElLS : Mr. Speaker, it has nothing to do, as the hon. member sup,gests, with the by-election. The commitment was given i.n wri.ting by the ll'inister at the time, the hon. ~'r. Doyle, in August of 1975 and since then the various things that I outlined the other day have followed. There is no question of a new commitment being given 1 now,this year. It was given in August, 1975. ~ . CALLA!'~ : ~'r. Speaker, I am dissatisfied with the answer and untler Stanc1ing 0rder 31 (

g) I wish to debate it on the Late Show. J'l'. SPP.AJ.<EP: The hon. member for Terra Nova. '!!'. Ll'SH: .~ question for the J<inister of 'Forestry and Agriculture. A short time ago tl1e minister ~ras announcing ahout the family garden ~ plots and I think he mentioned that the one in the Goulds will not be carr{en on this year. To my understandtng that "ms a very successful venture. I wonder if the minister is :In a position to explain to the House why the one :l.n the Goulds is not being carried on this year? }'1' . • SPEAI<EF.: TI1e hon. Pinister of Forestry and Agriculture. l•fT'.

P.OTTSSEAU: He are certainly very di.sappointed, J'r. Speaker, that the plot in the Goulrls is not going to be continued. l'nfortunately last year "men we had the space it was rented and we were unable to rent :l.t again this year. It 1s very difficult when a lot of peoples' lmrcl work "'ent into it an(l we had to move from that plot. I suggested 8598

' 'ay 25, 1976 Tape 2900 IB-2 f'P . R'l t'~SEAU: on earlier occasjons that I would like to be able to see people who 1·~~ a plot lPst year have the same one this year because a lot of people put a lot of work into it. But unfortunately the first year of the programme we Jearn from our l'listakes) t!i.e mistake!!' you make just as lonr: as you c1o not repeat them, and we have not repeated them th:!s year. The plot "e rave now is on Cro'l-m land that we will be able to have. l•'e did not know last year that this '~<•ould not be available. ~ut the pror,rarme was very successful.

It was an unfortunate situation i.n that respect. But we ~•ill make sure in future in St. John's_, as "~olell as the other areas of the Province 1 that the land we use will be available to us for longer periods of time. It could not be anticipated last year that the permission to rent this land would be withdrawn 1n one year. He could not assUIE that at all,and it is an unfortunate situation,but I am sure it will not happen again. Ml'. SPEAKER: The thirty minutes has ex-pired. ORDE.RS OF THE DAY: ~1R. SPEAKEr.: Order 3, Committee of Hays and ~·eans. The motion is that I leave the Chair. memher for Eagle R:lver.

The debate was adjourned by the hon. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ~IR. STP..ACI!k"': ~'r. Speaker, I had been asl<ecl by a number of hon, mernhers to drop the debate on the budget speech and to carry on on the Throne Speech. I had considered it. I know some members desire to leave this Pouse or get out of the cuckoo's nest. But s:lnce I will be returnil.ng to Labrador after this House closes and nobody 1<1111 be seeing me again until the House convenes, which may he next year, I thought '~<'e might inject a l:lttle bit of Labrador common sense into what had to be said here.

I will try and keep my c0I1'1llents very short and to the point. I felt I particularly wanted to talk because of my reaction and feeling from Labrador to the Premier's announcement last week of the :tttempt to try and regain Churchill Falls power. I know the situation 8599

~'ay 25, 197f'i Tape 2900 l'R. STT>ACHA' l : fairly well in Lahrarlor, at least the Labrador Coast ancl slightly in !lappy Valley--Goose Bay but more in the Coast, so I felt that T wanterl to indicate something of the feelings there. IB-3 to talk a little bit about a problem that we have in this Province '"hich does not often get airerl in St. John's, and that is the problem of separatism as we call it, Labrarlor separatism. I want to challenge some myths, some unfounded statements in St. John's from the newspapers and people who have never been to Labrador.

Before I enter into my short discourse on this I would like to indicate right from the start that I am not a separatist ~y any means. I would not he stancing in this Rouse and I would not be sHting on either of the parties sides if I was a separatist. I do not believe in it. Although I may add at the same time that in the end analysis, as· far as many Labrador people are concerned, it may have to come. Of course at that time one makes one's decision. But at the moment, certainly as far as I am concerne~our fight and concern should be to try and keep this Province as one, as a whole Province.

And to that point I aeree one hundrerl per cent. T-That I state here is almost in the form of a warning. It is almost in the forr> of letting St. John's, and rovernme:nt here in St. John's 1 know what is happening in Labrador w:!th the people there and thelr feelings, their emotions towards the Island part of the T'rov:!.nce. Getting bacY to the statement by the Premier, I should state that of all the people in the Province who welcome<:~ that statement - and I think one ~7 ouJ d have to be a fool not to t..•elcome such a statement - of all the people the people of Labrador '"elcoTl'ed it more tran anyone eJ se.

Hhereas the concerns of this House a:r>d the concerns of St. John's and the people of the Island are centered around the neerl for electricaJ pm•rer from Labrador, our concerns in Labrador are far deeper and far more fundamental than just the acqu:lsition of electrical pm•er. We are the actual ne:l;ghbon; of the Province of 8600

t<11y 25, 1976 'rape 2900 IB-4 'lP. S'l'PACnAN: Quebec. We are joined by a long boundary to that very unruly and very arrogant province. He have l:!stened,and I have seen and listened over months ~nd years,to propanyanda fed from the Province of Quebec that we belonr, to them, They still have not accepted the 1927 decision and th<>t :Is fairly •. ,e.ll knmm. t.Je have seen maps and charts distributed th):'oughout Quebec which shows no border whatsoever, which shows the landmarks of Quebec stretching to the Atlantic Coast and encompassing all of Labrador.

He a:re pretty ~•ell fed up to our teeth with continual thrents and blackma:ll emanating from that Province about how it is goin?, to eventually control us. We see on Quebec tourist brochures our very ot.m Torngat ~ountains wh:lch are situated almost entirely within the boundaries of this Province being heralded and touted around Canada as the 0uebec Alps. In recent ~~eks - ''ll. Sl"ALLWOOD: Are those mountains in the han. gentleman's district~ t!J'. ST!!ACfTAN: Yes, yes. The 'rorngat }.<ountains. In fact I should add that the Torngat Mountains contain the only two glaciers in this Province.

Small glaciers they are but there are two small glaciers on them. In recent weeks we have sat in wonder as to what exactly was goinr. on between this government and the government of Quebec. And I alil talking here of the people in Labrador who tlid not know what was ~o:lng on, who were ignorant of the facts. ~'ll. S¥ALLWnDD: Has the hon. gentleman seen either of those glaciers? J.<l'. STRACHAN: No, I have seen photographs of them. People in Labrador who are ignorant of the facts of what was going on were up in arms. I had many calls at the statement of Hr.

Cournoyer to barter or try to negotiate away part of Labrador untrue as it rnay have been. And also emanating totally from Quebec the people of Labrador hardly heard the ~inister of Finance's denial of such negotiations. He accepted the fact that what the minister said was true and we understand that point. But unfortunately in Labrador 8601

'"ny 25, 19 76 111-5 '"' <:TrAr'I'/IN: tney were so upset by 5t that they did not hea• the stateuent by the ninister. "l l they hearcl w1s the first stateJrent by the 1'inister of ~tRtural resourct's of C"uehec and they ~·ere fairly .. •ell up in arms and were not prt'parecl to listen to anythtnr more. In fact they had col!'e to the sta~c of believing not one wore! anyone was saying . All they real1y felt ~as someone "~s playtng around with them for other motives, I!'Otives of maybe pure, seUish greed. They attributed the p.reed both to Quebec and to the government here in St.

John's because that is how they perce:l .ve the government . The government is a rei!'Ote bure aucracy :In ~t . John ' s, even more remote because of the Jleog-raphic differences of the tto parts of the Prov:fncc. Becnuse of A lAck of real harr ne~s. of real InformAtion and bec.ause many places cannot rec-eive inforTTtat:l on with no radio, no telt'vi!':lon, no neNspnpers, then they cl·id not 'kno"' '-'hat was happeninl' and what was rn:Jny. on. 8602

Hay 25, 1976 Tape no. 2901 Page 1 ~1r. Strachan. We in this House here then made debate, as we did last Thursday, debate the Upper Churchill regarding it onJy as a source of hydro electricity. ,\nd the point I am trying to state is that the people of Labrador debate that resource, the resource, the technology provides us, electrical power, but they also debate because they are concerned about their own most important resource and that is the people of Labraddr themselves.

They feel that they are being raided, they are being emptied, they are drained by a guerrilla force that does not even have to come into the Province to get at their resources. It sets an imaginery line, and this ~is now Quebec regards -the border,as an imaginary line. We can call it a border but Quebec sees it as a totally imaginary line, and they can try to pick off our resources as we try to sell them to the rest of Canada.

The people have seen their resources being picked off by Quebec, and they have wondered all the time as to whether the schemes Quebec was dreaming up was to start picking off next their land, as they proposed, and· eventually , of course, the people of Labrador.

At no previous time in the history of this Province, I believe. - I am talking of Labrador -have the people of Labrador really needed reassurance and reassurance they were not getting until last Thursday, and I think the announcement that was made last Thursda~from what I can gather, gave the people of Labrador a great deal of reassurance that this Province was firml~ once and for all, going to take firm action about the situation with Quebec, and it would take strong action if necessary.

I think, of course, that the action that was taken c~es j•1st in time, and I think not just in time for the Churchill pot·rP.r :o.cquisition, but just in time for Labrador as well. The govcrn~ent forced into a crisis situation has reacted strongly, and 8603

Paze 2 - I"'W ~rr. Str:tr1t1n. 1 cl'rt.11.nly, nne! m'lny ;1~>n;•lC' 1.n T.al,rodor :lppl:l.nrl that movement. llnt '·'" fC'~l t~nt sur.h stronr ~rtion neerls tn he t11l:en in m'lny ntl- n.,- ". rP~ .~ nf reRnurco ,Jr>velorm"nt in LabrC~do-r. And we often osl' ~hr t;ll"'st1.n01, ''Why do we have to wait until we are cornered 1-,ef'orP ·~<> c.;m re<~ct in such a forceful and necessary manner?" The p<:ople of Labrador have felt that they are being tra:lcd, as I sald, by St. John's that n:J Jlr~ction was coming fro ·~a 3t .. J0hn's or co:aing frol!l a. goverruneut centred in St.

John's, t:1.:1.t t~!er\! 'Nas little e!'_ougil concern 1y the ,10vernr.tent fot: them let alouc <.lilY stron.~ guiJing Loree. There ,.,as a .vacuu1~1 then ln Lal.lrador, an~ I s:1.y t11c vac~.1u~ 1.r1a~ only app~ased to a certain e::teat ·oy tow l'reo.lier 's an,10u1.C~1oent last week. That the Premier' B stateloient will satisfy a great Jcal of the emotional concern felt within i..abraclor I have no doubt will happen. People do feel happier nne feel tr.at at last may Le something is happening to join this I'rovincc in. to one. ]r?,.

SliALUJOOD: Would ti1e hon. member permit a question? lias he any evidence wl1atsoever to indicate that the reaction that he welco:nes to tllC Premier's statement, along ti1e Coast of Labrador, tvith \lhich the hon. gentleman is so familiar, is equalled or paralleled in Western Labrador? Is there the same depth of emotional feeling and satisfaction and approval in \kstern Labrador near the boundary as lhere is out on the coast which,after all,is another country almost? rTf.. STM.CfL\:1: I certainly cannot answer that. Probably the c!inister of forestry and Agriculture would be more informed on that situation.

I have never been to Labrador West myself apart from kJassing th~ougl1 there. So I do not knm> the situation, and the feelings there. I certainly can only tall~ for the Labrador Coast and to a certain extent for :llippy .Valley - Goose Bay where I spend considerable time. I :wve inuications fcom Labrador 17est that there are certain 8GO~

ilny 25, 1976 Tape no. 2901 Page 3 - 1IIW i·lr. Stra chan. people there who are stated to be separatists or people who are only trying to bring attention to their problems, and . ara not really basically separatists nor are they pro-Quebec. And t his is a point I was trying to get to which may explain it. I have read in St. John's articles in The Evening Telegram, The Daily ~<ews , I have listened to CBC, to constant talk about union between Labrador and Quebec. I have lived in Labrador seven years, and I have never met one person who wants to have anything to do with Quebec. That is totally a foreign attitude.

It is an ignorant attitude by people who are writine about Labrador .tn St. John's, but who have never been to Labrador. In fact the people of Labrador,rather than discuss Quebec or certainly they do not want to get ·into bed with Quebec­ in fact many of them have a very narrow, almost bigoted attitude towards Quebec. And when you see the territorial demands that Quebec makes on Labrador and makes on this Province then one can understand why the back reaction by the Labrador people is eqqally as narrow. They view Quebec as being the aggressor. There is no question about that.

As far as they are concerned, · Quebec is the aggressor. And that is the viewpoint of all LabradoriSDs that I know. It may be a bigoted viewpoint for the Labrador people to feel, but certainly it is not a viewpoint of brotherly love or a feeling that should be shown to a neighbouring Province in this grea.t nation of Canada. But it cannot be any more bigoted than the territorial demands of the· Quebec 's 11inister of Natural Resources. Labrador, as far as I know, and the people of Labrador do not hold out their arms to Quebec. They may hold out their boot, but they certainly do not hold out their arms to them.

The point I 1;as trying to get to here is that I feel that the action ;v-hicl1 Has tak en last lveek should only be a ·start. It should not be regarded an a one- pi ece action. There should be action which shou l d be follo wed up i n dealing with all the resources of Labrador 8605

··:~ y .25' 1?76 T.:1pc no . 2;01 :rr. Strac:1an. so that t:1ey nrc not trac!ccl or sold off to Q.1cuec nor should Labrador be rc:;ardec only as a p l;~ce in w:.ich the J;csources nrc sc"lt ":o tl:~ !~l:mJ. T.o:1hracor equall7 :·Ul :;et the sa=~e fcC'..linc~< for tbe Idand vortion, if the Island re:;ards Labrador exac tly the same way as Quebec regards Labrador, a place 11here rasourceo c"ln he dr:tine:i, can t.e tnppetl, :-:;d co.r !>e t:~kcr. from .

TitC're ar\! pco,.le :tctuall;; liv in3 in Labr~t<' •~r, people •:ho wa:lt to rcmuin thc~:e, :tnd tllcy ar\! of: conceJ:n too, not only the hydro po~;er, not only tht ur .1n :r,\wn, not only t!-1' iron ore or the forests. :;y pl~ es::c"lti..llly is tllnt t':>! govcrn;nen t s!lould follo.,.· U!• this :;tronr, act:ton to £"lin oacl.. tbc resources of La!.rador h)· furt :1er strone action so tiiZlt they can 3ain back ::.e peo1)le: o" !..1.brac!or. T constantly her<.: i:l th~ ilouse ant: L1. !it.

Jnt.n ' ~ - ! nm feel •dtl. 0:eoplc 11ho lauz:1 or titter o r feel it 'iF- rathru: stupid, that emotional outcry from Labrador) ;md pass it ofc a,; being unrealistic and impractical . If lhe ~~o:ion presc~tly bcin: cxprcsse~ by Labrador people against the I~lnn•l port inn i~ not satisfied \!ith further stronz action by gove-rnments of this ~ rovincc, then I assert that the pr.:tcticolity which people say is now missing - you see the e~r.otion is t!.ere but no practicality - then the practicality which they say is missinr; will come, and the realism which they s:ty Is not therP will also grow .

It will nlso come . :hen, of course , yon have re:tc'•ed the danger point where you put the emotton toget:1er •dth t'w !l'C'3Ctic•llity am! the realism, anC: you are on a road of no rctun\. 1 feel that within the next five, six,sevcn years, 1e this P'C'ovince is going to ~aintai n iusclf as one unified Province, then tJtcrc !ms to be a whole diffe :-ent attit ude by gover nment in St. John ' ~ .1nc! uy :h~ i>urc:lucr:tcy towards Labrado r. 1 of ten hear peoplt> !lay t hat when •·:e Z~s!.. for this that we are asking for more money , 11c are .'lsking (or more funds in Lnbr:tdor . That 1s not necessarily 8606

·:ay 25, 1976 Tape no. 2901 Page S - mw l'r. Strachan. true. Of course , wa need r.tore roads . My district has not one ro"td in it. Of course we need a lot of things. But what we are Mking fo r is not only funds being spent in that part of the Province, which is providing such a great deal for the L'rovince, but we are also asking for concern. We are also asking for a prese n.ce. We are askitlsr. for people to be there to come And talk t o people and be concerned with the problems , not to pass them off as being too far away or it is too long or too cold or too miserable to go there .

What we are asking for then is a ?roccss of consultation, a p r ocess of which a government, or a reasonable type of government,or some recognition is given to Labrador, real, true, deep recognition, an empathy which is absent now. I am sure then that such t houghts as I have expressed .:tbout the emotion s of Labrador are small compared to the prohlcms facing the Premier and the problems facin g the ~niGtcr of ~ines and Enerey as they go into negotiations with Quebec for the Churchill Falls power. They need their cool heads, and they need t heir cold logic to see their way through, and I ~ppreciate t hat .

QUt most 8607 ,.

rray 25' 1976 Tape 2902 IB-1 1"1'. !:TPAC'll,6N : Labrador people clo not appred.ate that because they do not know what is going on. 'l'hey have not access to the harcl facts and they are not concernecl. They ;~re mostly concerned with their emoti.ons. They are mostly concerned with their feelings. It is a feeling 1~hich is often encourap,ed by isolati.on. If anyone has studied,as I have, the effects of isolation on people then one can very easily understand Hhy ell'otion can very quic 1<.1y start to rule your life, of wh:l.ch your whole life is based on one deep feeling. is at the moment.

This :l.s what Labrador The po1nt that I was trytng to get and the fina1 point here that T am trying to express is that unless something happens, unless this r,overnment, this House and the people of th1s Island make an attempt to start to understand the people there and their problems then there will be - and I Ham you again and will do it again and again - there wiJl be in the future some real deep concern. All of the suclclen you are going to be upset and angry at something •rh:l.ch takes

part in Labrador and you will not know 1~hat has hit you. T do not spree with much of this but I can understand their ernot:lons and the:!r feel:!np,s and :It is for me to present their feelings here :In the Tlouse. I woulrl be cowardly H I d:ld not. I see that as rny point . Ar,ain T say that I am not a separatist. 1 believe :In unity ·. But I bel:! eve that •re must make this attempt.

I was slightly sacld£-ned last Tlmrsd~y T·.•hen the resolution ~~hich 1~a!' before the House here 1,ras not ac"opted at the last minute on Thursday night. rry sad feeHngs, my deep feelings, were caused because I felt that the governrrent allowed tl-te'!lsel ves to get caup,ht up i.n the bickering of the House,or our pol:ltical differences within ·the Rouse,and did not thin k about the people outside of the House, many of whom do not know w}lat :1 s going on. I thought that for the people of LabraCior alone they should have been right and due to present that resolution and carry it on.

It is Opposition's business as I see it to attack - 8608

l 'ay 25 , 197fi Tape 2902 IB-2 Is it tno late even now to do it? 1'1'. SVALLHOOn: ~ 1' . STT'ACRAN: I certainly do not think so but I was deeply saddened by the :act because I th:lnk "e are here to serve the people of this rrovince.

Fh~tt was happening was that our internal family squabbles, our rl:frty l:fnen 1.n here ,,,as affecting a resolution, a resolution which 1.s very much needed by the people of Labrador more than anybody else in the 'Province because they wanted to see, at least :f.n my district, and I believe alsc :In the center of Labrador, they wanted to see very clearly that ~uebec was being told where to get off. I think that by not presenting that resolutionJI certainly was saddened 1 and I think that many people in Labrador were too because this was the kind of thing they were looking for, the news they were looking for.

This is what they were looking to this House for. And their concerns about · ~rh ether different parties wish to argue and squabble in the House do not matter to the people of Nain or the people of Black Tickle or the people of l{ary' s Harbour or the people of Rappy Valley. They are not interested in the squabbles. They are interested in what essentially comes out of it at the end. point. That is all. SO~'f H0N. 1'EMREPS: Hear, hear! That is why I present this Y". SPF.AKF.R: The hon. member for Burin-Placentia. I'll. CANNINC : Yr. SpeRker, it is almost t"enty-seven years since I first stood in this House to take

part in a debate. It was not debate on a budget. It was a debate on the Address in ~eply and I had greater latitude. 1'r. ~peaker, I will try to be relevant and not stray too far to have to be called to order because I like goocl. order :In this House. I am all for it. I try to keep it. 'Mr. Speaker, my heading note today is a modern expression that our boys and girls would use if I told them we were $600 million in debt in 1971 and we are now $1,800 million in debt or more, three times that. ~ 'r. Speaker, the youth of the Province would ask me, "Pow come?" If I told them my d.istrict and the entire Burin Peninsula in 1971-1972 was flour:fshi.ng and not one man or women who was healthy 8609

Yay 25, 1976 Tape 2902 IB-3 ¥P • CAl\'NlNG: and needed work and wanter! to vrork but were unemployed.If I painted a picture of H today, of unemplo)'l'lent, uncertainty I think the youth would ask me, "How come? How come thiR gloomy budget?" If I tolr! our youth, the young men and women of today, the rulers of tomorrow, young men and women who are to come in here after I l'tm ~one, if I told them the successful story of the Liberal government :In Newfoundland from 1949 to 1971, perJ:-.aps to 1971, ~r. Speaker, but maybe not.

Perhaps I should say 1967-1968, after the m:l.r! 1.960 's, If I tolcl thel'l of the law and order experienceit :In this House up to that day and up to the clay that the }~in:lster of !"1nes and Energy started crisscrossing the floor of this House, if I told them the turmoil started then and has continued ever s:lnce, 'vhen th:ls House really has not been a decent place for any rood man or woman to be who are interested in the Province, or who "' ant to carry on the work of the Province. Mr. Speaker, again they vTould aslr me, "Hm·' come? Hhy has th:ls happened?".

They would 11sk me why I ~<as here. lolhy I stayed here so lonr, or why I tried to come back nnd ,.,hy I am here ar,ain. ~·r. Speaker, the time at my d:l.sposa] is not enough, is not lonp. enough to ~o :Into that. I am sorry that I did not have the opportunity to speak in the Address in reply to the Speech from the Throne. I do not thinl r I would have any longer time, would n ~'1' . PO!lE~ Tf'. : No, forty-five :l.s all. tW. rA1~INC: Rut anyway I would have had the same time, forty-five minutes. I wouln have had p;reater J attHucle perhaps.

But if I were to go on now and tell ~>my I <<ras here, ••hat happened in the period I •'as here, why I "'as defeated after having done so much for lT!Y district, why three years elapsed and the people of Placentia West asked me to come back agnin, }'r. Speaker, why did I beat a much younger man, a learned man of ~mom the Tories boast, not the people of Placentia West, ~·r. Speaker, I could tell them. Again I am sure they '~ould ask me, "How come?". 8610

~·ay 25, 1976 Tape 2902 IB-4 '1f' • O.NNING: ~ t r.

Speaker, if I told them of the great men who passed throuRh th1.s t=:icle of the Rouse both in r.overnment and opposition during l'lY the, if I tolrl t l1err of the Opposition of this Bouse previous to 197Z, fro~ 1949 to J072, if I told them of the great men, gentlemen they were, of how much they had t he Province at heart, a lot of them, many of them or most of them, how they behaved themselves here, how they respected the Chair, how the business of the House was carried out as it should be with all respect and d.ecorum att.ach ed to it, and then if I told them what it has been like since the day I ca me in last Fall, what has gone on here, the ~~y this House has act ed, if I told them of the governl!ll!nt, so many we have not heard from yet, if I told the111 that the b u d~et passed through the Rouse in a fe-w minutes which we were not given an opportunity to debate, if I tell them on the Burin Peninsula we did not get an opportunity to debate the budget on the fishe r y , the 1'10St important indust-ry of the Island and a department which I think at the morrent has a good man - sometimes I look over a t hirr and find that I served in this lious e with him and I '-'Onder 8611

'rape No. 29fl3 NM - 1 'Ill . CMINI •r.: why he was not noticed, why he was not taken in then, because 'lr. Speaker, he had as much experience then in the fishery as he has not.r. He is the son of a fisherman and came from a fishing outport. He knows the life of a fisherman . He knows the :!'llportance of the fishermen. Yes, Hr. Speaker, they would ask me, "How come?" I could tel 1 the.m. 1 wiJ 1 leave the House to guess. 1-Te have intellieent men here,! hope. As I go through the few remarks I am goi.nr; to mal~e this afternoon I hope they will look at it with an open mind, the thinr,s I ask or the things I say.

I hnpe they w:!.ll be broan enoug!1, I hope they have courage enough, I hope they have interest in ~~ewfoundll'.nd to the extent that they will ] is ten and perhaps my forty-five miimtes will not be wasted. '-'r. Speaker, if. I toln a[lain the youth- I said my hr>adline was, "llnw Co!:!e" and these are Rome of the quest:!.ons they wouJd put to me, or if th£-y put to me, how I would anst.rer them.

If I told them what our problems wP.re in 1~1li-9 when we suffered isolation, degredation and poverty and we were the pnnrest in the country, if I told them of the almost miraculous chanr:e and our rarirl strides to catch up, if I told them of the men who with scantv budgets. laboured and sweated to brim!' in ~ hud~et, to hrinr, in a bud7,et, the money to be d~vided as E'QtJ:

J) ly as nossihle, the fe'< millions that thP.y had that marlP "'t?tvfouncl]:mrl what she ~ms in 1<1711, Mr. ~neaker, they ,,,ou]d 11sk rnf', "How come? How did they do it1"' 'T'hPn if I tell them after five years that the Tory Government brought this Province to a standstill they tvould ask me, "How come?" If the youth of my district in Placentia Hest have heard the stories from their narents tbat every sinr;le year from 1CJ49 to 1971 that district forged aheaJ, it foreed ahead faster than any other area in this Province, Hr. <;peaker, I am not going to be so vain as to say that I did it. ' lo, Mr.

Speaker, I did it under a L:l.beral r:ov('rnment which during that time '"as Lihernl, was looking after 8612

l ~ ay :'5, 197f-i Tape No. 2903 NM- 2 th~ poor of N~wfoundland, Has trying to bring it ahP.ad and f'.ocl 'knows we rlid. T r,et <1 little bit mixed up or confusecl when I say they or we he cause I Wl'ls never a part of the government. lo/hen I say we, the gcrvernmPnt, I am not correct. I was not a part of the government. I was a backbencher, Hr. Speaker. I wns n bnckhencher because I did exactly what I am going to do here today, and I did not fit into the political scheme, I did not fit into the system, so I spoke my mind. And there were timer;, T·lr.

Speaker, that I tread on the wrong toes and I do not mean our leacl er' s toes. But I tread on the toes of those that he had to go nlonr. with. He ~vas the leader of this Province, he wanted to remain leader and unfortunately he had to along with the people who never wanted to see me in the government. '1r. Speaker, I do not think that caused the Liberal r.overnment to go do,m, tha t I was .not there. But I feel I could have contributed.

I think I could have made a contribution as great or greater in th~ main industry of thi~ lan~, the one thing that T ..ras very much interested in, that I knew all about when I came into this, what used to be knmm- I lmew as much as any Newfoundlander about it. I came in here ns a s~aman. I came as a man who had fished during his high school, who had spent six years with the greatest seamen of the world, lwho theT1 ~P~in t"fi A ""r ...............

"' _,_ \..;!"~• .. .. o t ... ~ ~ea, ...... t..o ,p.a to ~ to university to prepare himself at a late age to be settling rlownl to prepare himself to be able to settle down,., and r'l"'" "'•" to fish my way through the university. I think I came in well nrepared. ~r. Speaker, I often thought I was when I saw school teachers, aR Minsters of Fisheries, when I saw men as Minister of Fisheries •.::,o knew nothinr, about it. I often thought, I did not 1-1ant to go in for the money, I did not want to go in for the r.lory, but I often tbought and wished ·· I were there. Aad one thing ~ 8613

1-lay 25, 1Q7f'. Tape No. 2903 ~- 3 HR. C~m<TW:: did outside of j t I think I contrihuted more to the Department of Fisheries in the twenty-three years I was here than anybody <•ho went in there. Yes, Mr. Speaker, if I could tell the story, a part of the story that I mentioned here this afternoon when we tried to modernize the salt fish on Merasheen Island, and if I could tell the story of the Atlantic fish coming into Harystown,I had something to do with it, not very much, but I did not find them. Rut, tlr.

Speaker, the man who found them gave me the opportunity to meet them first when they came here to choose a site. Tie gave me that. He asked me to go to the airport and meet them, take them to the hotel. M.r. Speaker, I took them to the hotel. They were looking for a site in Newfoundland. They wanted to know about the fishery. They wanted to know r.bout the plants. They wanted to know about the wages. '!'hey ~Tan ted to know where thf'y could get their skippers, their engineers, and, of course,it just srited me because I had them. Mr.

Speaker, T told t~em things t~at day that I think I would have gotten rapped over t~e knuckles for. I did not :;o down and betray the Premier. J do not betray leaders that I am vlith. If I had to betray them I think I would leave the!ll first and slip quietly out unless I was certain that I could contribute something to the Province , uherc I 'vould turn against them openlv 1\ut, Mr. SpeakE-r, I did go out on a li.nh. !lut I think he 1mul rl want me to say it, what I told them.

I said, "Now Maryst.mvn i.s in "'Y rlistrict, it is on the :Rurin Peninsula:' I told them the great port it was, I told them we had the men and we had the t¥or1en, ,,·hich we did, to operate the plant. But I also told -them that the Premier of the Province was a politician and there ~s 11 dang~r thnt ~~hen they would JT\ect him later in t'f-te day he mir,ht 861~

l'J7( '!qM - 4 qay, with nll <lu<' r csp<-ct t o tt, but i t was not the place to :>c t up n tlccr sea !i:-:her y at that tim e . T'c may want them to r.o to Long narbour 1 n- some other placc >hut T run tellin g you noH that if you 1~ant to rra1•~ a success of this plan t you will r,o to '!arys town. And it was not politics. I pe-csuaded 1:hem that it was not because I was t:he-ce. I told .them 1 was pret ty safp there .

I told them that I cou~d win an election if an elect ion came wit;out thei-c being there J which I did for years. :4-c . c;JlPAkcr , at anothe-c time I will tell the success of t hat b ec~u~e th;\t plant re volut ioni~ed the, I would say . the deer sea fishery of Newfoundlandp Po-e the f1-cst tim.P. t;c plants bucked up a-councl tl>em hecause they had to i.n order to kee11 their men. 8615

May 25, 1976 Tape no. 2904 Page 1 - mw Hr. Cannin;; . Mr. Speaker, that would be a success story I could tell them.If they asked me about the shipyard, why it •~as operating at full- time in 1972 with contracts, 'nth signed contra.cts and contracts in the offing to keep it going even greater for the next t.vo or three years) and I vrould then tell them that t:oday between layoffs , things do not look too promising and they VJould :1sl: l'!e1 "How come?"Hr. Speaker, I could tell them. Mr.

Speaker., then if they ask me about the great university we built, if they ask :::1e the number of people who have gone through the university, and I tell thf'.m there will be cuts in the Run~et Speech - in the budget there was a cut for the university - they ''ill as]: ille1 "How come?" Jfr.

Speaker, a2;ain if the yonth of my district ''f're to ccl'le in her.e, and I told them the number of civil servants 1.n tl"' llnn!'l' <'f i\>;l'<embly, if I told them the great thing that W:! did ,.;1,,~., "'e bnUt this r;rea.t eonfr>denttion ~uilrling, that we f'Ht .q1J th!' d<>f'artments <'r. ;:>r'l.cticalJy 1.ll the departments under nne roof. in nne rl~ce for <'!ffici .ency, "'nn for coPveniencr>, nnn tl1cn I sh(n·•en. them the numhPr of bui ld1n?;s ill St.

John's today, nnd if I told them the Civl.l Service has increased in the number of civil servants, which I hnve not got e..<cept I Lnow lt is sometltln;:: terrible, far ueyond ti1e number needed - I itave: o.s.:•cd tl.c qu~stion, Lut I diu not get the answer - llr. Speaker, t:uca lf I tolJ them what I woulJ tell thec1, ti1at there is an over-aL,w,lance, whatever you might call it, of civil servants t:.at th~ Tllrles orought in and who are houseJ in good Tory buildiubs ln St. Jolla's, l~aseJ to the government, 1:r. Speaker, t~1ey \voulJ ask mc,"How come?" : · ~r.

Speaker, I think during the next three years I will be giving tl.e answers every now and thea when it ls appropriate, wh.cn Lt ls Iittine to most of tl10se questions. I think in t'l-te 1lneech from the 'throne and on other occasions when it is right and proper 8616

;·lay 25, 1 ry]G Tape no. 2~04 Page 2 - mw i ,r 4 Cannin; 1 .. you ,.,ill be llcariag fro:n me, f.ro:•1 J'le. . this House will be hearing :'r. <;pea!-er, I am not an econol'list. I do not know too r>ucil auout fln;:mcc. I never had reason to learn it. I was never involved ln auy big :noney deals so I am not an authority ou it, and I will leave that judgement for others.

But, ~!r. ::lpeaker, there is one t1ling that I do know from my experience here in the House,from my experience in dealing tdti1 my distr let, from my following the government of this Province for t-..renty-scven years, there is one thing I have learned enough to knm~ , anrl tlds is not doom, this is not politics - 11r. Speaker, anything else I say here today, because, ~!r. Speaker, I have no notion of stayinr; here in this llouse any longer than I have to, I aL< not 1;0ing to say how long it is. When I spend another term in this House, :rr.

Speaker, I will have given to this Province to the best of my ability, I have given to my people - however long it lasts, I do not know, s.:1y it will last three years - twenty-six and six are thirty-two. Mr. Speaker, that is £.:1r over half a working lifetime. So I t:ill be content that I have done what I could do for the people of ~ewfoundlancl. I think I will be able to look anybody in the face and say, ''The past number of years I ],ave done what I could. " There were times that I wished I coulcl do more and perhaps there were times that I did not do enough.

But in my own conscience I feel that in my position as an ordin<1ry me;nbcr of this House I did my duty well. I am not an egotist I atn not boastful, because, ilr. Speaker, if I were I certainly can boast about my district. Hr. Speaker, when I went lnto the district in 1949 there is a staggering figure that if I told - I would not tell thf' youth. It \~culd take too long to answer if I told them "How come?"The average wage of a fisherman in Placentia nay in 1951-1952 was $380 a year. llr. Speaker, last year 8617

Hay 25, 197() Tape no. 2904 Page 3 - mw 11r . Canning. and this did not come from the Tory Government, they did not have anything to do with it - last year, Hr. Speaker, I do not know the average wage of a fishe:unan, the inshore fishermen and the draggers, except I know this, that there are deckhands in my district last year who made $13,000. There are mates who made $15,000, and there are skippers who made $30,000. Mr. Speaker, that is not exaggerated. I can give a higher figure than that. I can give a figure, Nr. Speaker, of a skipper in this Province last year tJ!to made $40,:>00.

I am not saying he is in my district. rerhaps he is outside of it. Because if I do I will be making it so obvious to the people outside this Iwuse, but I should not worry about that because people outside this House will not hear it. It will not be in the papers, ~!r. Speaker. And before I am finished today perhaps if I have time anough, I may tell w;ty it will not be in t:1e papers. nut I will leave that for anot:1cr tiro1e, but it \vill be told in this House by me if I have mv health and strenp,th and I am still hPre. 'lr.

Speaker, I was com;nenting on the fact - I am not apologizing for it, I just stated that I am not too well ver,;ed in finance, but I do knov/ that at this moment this Province is in dire straits. it never was hefore. like T said I 31:! not sayh~g this for politics. I am saying it because I feel that I shoulcl say it, and I should knolv it, because I bc.ve been involved wit:t the government so long. ~1e are in dire straits. t:y district tod:1y h;o.s stopped its progress. .~nd, ·~r.

Speake,r, I t:ill not go over these t~ree or four years of \~hat ~tappcned in tl:e district, because I uay again wander too far fror3 the su],j ec t, :m: I m:1y !.>e called to order. But, lfr. Speaker, thPrc is one t!tln:::; I am ;:.oln:; to do today. ~1r. Speaker, the only hope that is left for this House and left for this Province, a ~1ope that I think is left for it, I am goia:; to tell you.- Hr. Speaker, 861S

Tape no . 29Qt, Page 4 - mv .. r . C::m nln" . I .:o not 11:mt to be to<l, what looks like, political, but, !'r . Speaker, T h:wc no f:1ith ln tllis government of tcJ ay here as it is. ·•r. Speaker , I do not want to offend the members on the opposite side. I got good friends over there. I guess they :~re a ll my f r iends . I do not kno1~ if they will all be my frie nds ~~hen I :tm finished, bu t rtr . Spcakel:, they are there, that I have E<Iith in as men. I have faith in the :-tiniste;; of !"isheries , 8619 ,...

I'BY 25, 1976 Tape 20()_') I!l-1 l<r>. f'NlNING: I am watching the t'in:! .ster of Economic Development hoping I am goinp: to have faith in him • These are two new men, Mr. Speaker. I have faith :l.n two others over there who today are feeling and have felt for some time as I felt down through the years,lots of times. I walked out of this House. My leader knww it. And I did not vote for certain bills, not many, twice I think which was a fairly good record.

It would be a reco~d for the government that a conscientious member or a fellow who is in the backbenches and did not ha•e to be directly responsible for the government's actions to only find occasion to walk out twice. ~ r. Speaker, perhaps it would be well if I told when I voted against the bills. One was not so important. The other was. I do not know to this day on the more important one :!.f I did right or I did wrong. I do not know if my leader or the government, the leader of the government or anyone in the House knew I walked out. I walked out during the IWA voting. I was not here. I made myself absent.

Mr. Speaker, I will not comment on it further but about a year after when I went up and I saw the camps that my constituents had lived ln before that, when I saw the conditions that they worked under, when I !!law how they sweat and toiled for a few dollars, some of them breaking themselves up, I at least consoled myself that perhaps I did right. The other occasion, Hr. Speaker, was when the provincial government cut off the bounty on schooners. At the time I did not think they should cut it off. I was very much interested in schooners and I had some people who wanted to build them.

The Minister of Fisheries of that day who was not a Liberal, he was a Tory that the Liberal Party had brought in for political reasons - I have often tried to find out what they were but I really do not know. But you have to have political reasons to take a Tory and bring him in and put him into the Department of Fisheries in Liberal Newfoundland. }.fr. Speaker, I have no confidence in the speech of the budget. I have Bo confidence in the government. I cannot see anything 8620

May 25, 1976 Tape 2905 IB-2 MR. CANNING: ahead aa is for me here as someone in the Oppositian but a boring three or four years, the most boring I will ever spend in my life. I am judging from last November when we Gpeu.e'd House. I am judging what has gone on here since last November beaause, Mr. Speaker, if that is the government across the other side of the House>and that is the shawi~g that they are going to give every year from now until the day that they will have to call another election - Mr. Speaker, I have not heard from them, I am only judging them from their silence. I do not know what their policy is.

I do not know where the Preaier expects to go from here. I have not got a clue. If when I came in the Premier had gotten up like a Premier. like a leader of a government and talked to the House, talked to his members, and talked to the Opposition, and if he admitted a dozen mistakes in the last three or four years,or twenty miatakes,and said, "I made them" but"This is llewfoundland. This is our Province. made terrible mistakes but I am not going to make them anymore. I I am going to try and correct them", Mr. Speaker, I would have gotten interested.

If the ministers of the different departments had gotten up during the budget and given an account of their sums that they spent in their depa~nt - and some of them. I believe, would have gotten up if they had to have the opportunity. They did not aBd do not tell me it was not fixed. Do .not tell me that we are up until this day in the year and young men in this Rouse did not get a chance to apeak to the budget speech, their maiden speech, something they looked forwar~ to. Do not blame the Opposition for that. Do not blame me for it or anybody over here.

We have not heard from the young men on the other side and I would like to hear from them because when I look over at them I say, "There is a fellow over there from a district", and I judge him to be honest and sincere as I was when I came in. wh~yet did not have a chance to even speak to the Rouse. What a session! No budget debate! I would have liked very much to have gone down through the items in the Minister of Fisheries 8621

Hay 25, 1976 Tape 2905 IB-3 HP.. CANNING: budget. I can ~ell him now that I was re~iy for him and it was not criticism .! can assure you that. It was whatever I could put into it to help him. I tell h:l.m nm~ that in the next three or four years, although I may be fed up, at any time that I can do anything for him, if he keeps on as he is going now - he is one of the few that I know where they are going. Now, ~r. Speaker, I do not know what the legislatures are in the other provinces or the other Eastern provinces of Canada. I wish I did. But I am just wondering do they carry on like we carry on here? 1-!r.

Speaker, over here on my side, behind me, are how many - twelve? Thirteen? - we have thirteen or fourteen men here and, Mr. Speaker, I believe this, that behind me now are men, young men most of them, who are just as sincere, just as determined and as interested in their distr:lct as I was when I came in here. }lr. Speaker, those of them who have spoken have certainly given a good account of themselves. I am sorry that I will not have the opportunity,even if they do in the next few days,as I am going to be unavoidably absent from the House perhaps for the rest of the session. I am sorry that I will not hear them.

I guess their districts want to hear them and I hope that this House will at least have the decency or courtesy, to carry on here long enough to let them speak, let them get on their feet, let .them get used to the House of Assembly. I am sure, Hr. Speaker, they will play a good, fair, honest part, honest game in this Opposition. Now, Mr. Speaker, I feel that they are the nucleus and I have great faith in them. I have no merchants behind me. I have no big contractors. I have nobody 7 and I say nobody, around me here who was born w:lth a silver spoon in the:lr mouth, not one of them.

I think that there are fourteen or fifteen, the best Ne,•foundlanders we have today. ~ tr. Speaker, ,.,hat am I go inc to advise this House? Fhat am I goinr; to tell them today that would be worthy of me, be worthy of a man who has apent more time in one district than any other man living? I have a recora in this House today, Mr. Speaker, that 8622

}lay 25, 1976 Tape 2905 IB-4 l-'R. CANNING: I do not think will ever he broken again. I have a record but none. There are people here who have as many elections, ' not people, there is a man here today, a man who almost has my record, I mean as a member1 but he did not stand in his own native district as often as I did 8623

"~y ~'), ] "7(- NM- ]. tJitl, tl1c 1"11 ·1 r.ri ti.C's t'1at T haC! ;mel thP.T' ro out nn<l then cm~c 11ncl: ~-;d. th one of the hi.g ma1 ori ties of tl1e J a!'l t <'lection. Yon knm ~ , "r. Speakf?r, if I do not spenk my mind, if T n'll not sincere today, :'lnd if T am pJay1n~ politics, wh<'l.t von cnlJ nolitics, you l<no''' you ~et 1Tlixecl ur in politics, things that are pol1 tical :'l.TP ~ood when they are> p;ood but the>. m";mi.nr; of noliti.cs across '!e,vfoundland today is when you are deceiving, or when you arl' a hypocTitic.

That is making politics.But ~·r. <;penl:er, T stanrl here tl1is afternoon, as sincere as ever I have he en in my life or ever "ill be again 0 Perhaps I ,.rill hurt peonle, T <~o not l:nou. T rlo not knmv of any enem:l.es I lJave in the For] d toc'ay, hef0t:e T snol ·e here today • I ilo not knm• if I aro p;oin:>; to l,avr. the., <1l'ter T ~o ont, but if 1 rlo T cannot hell' it. Hr.

Speaker, this Provi.nce, in my opinion at the T'resent 1'1omf'nt js l">roke0 It is :m ;nvful situati.on to thin~- that we have to cut down on our Health, the number of hospital beds, something that T stood up in t1-te !louse for,nnd I hegged for. T supnose I prayelil t 1wt ~1e Hould improve our medical faciJ i.ties. 1 stooc up and T heer;ed f0r ann this llouse begged for, in those days, hetter E'cluc1.1tion facilities. !le 11ere pretty prond tl,e day onr university opened, "c. Sreaker. T ''"s pretty proud the Jay :l.t opened. 11ut, >Tr.

Speal•er, T ~I as more> proud, or T'rouder ~1hen J left the district, a r1 tstri.ct t!-litt T had ~one in and I did not have a degree, I had three years they used to call i.t Teachers' Training, then they called it Educati.on T, II, anrl III, in preparation for teaching 1 anr1 'lr. 'lpC'al:e .r, when T left tl-tf' d:lstrict I could look back at it, in the small est nook, tiH• rmallest harbour, the smallE'st port with ten or a Jo7.en fo.mili~s ,that during those years had people with rleRrees. tlH'Y h:1.tl :m oppnrtnn :l.tv to r;C't to the university for the first ti.me in the histnry of Newfoundland and tlr.

Spealcer, I ar1 not one who t:1in! :s it is a waste of time. 'fr. r.;pPah•r, T s:w now again I !,ave fai.th in certain peonle on the ot1-tPr sirle of the House, p;reat repard for them. 0 There 862~

Tape ~lo. 2901\ }P.-1' - 2 HR. r.ANNING: arc others T have not, I cannot helr that. Anrl the nn1y hope I see no1~- thC' political game is heing played and the '""Y rolitics are going tn Newfoundland, ~rhat the people are nRl'inr;, '~hat thE' people i_n my district are asld.ng and what the !'ennle in my dtstd.ct want, ~!r, l':peaker, to the questions T have. asked. is the answers 'fR. NF.Al'Y: Taxi drivers for instance want to p;et their insurance ~ fR. CANNINr.: Mr. Speaker, they want answers to the questions that the hon. memher, ~rho has _1 ust interrupted me, the questions he has 1.Rl·f'cJ, That :Is r-trht.

MR. r.ANNING: The 'lUestions lw has Rsked in the last three months,or however long we are hE're has set the people thinking 0 He has them to the roint where they ~~ant the answers. Some of them know them. Some of them I wculd like to have. I am just as suspicious of what he asked as he is. Mr. Sneaker, there are people on the other side of t!1e House, on the ;>;overnment side of the House who Hant the answers to then. There are young men who carne in here with all the good intentions in the world, they want to know are these things true.

There are people nver there '~ho want to know the conclusions that I am goinp; to come to today, what I am going to advise,in the next few minutes 1 can he done. ~'r. Speaker, those questions I have asked can be answered well by two people in this House who I know pretty well. There are tYo men ov.er hE>re on this s:!.de of the House who can stand up and answer those questions, anslver them during the next two or three y~ars and set this ~rovince straight. And, ~1r. Speaker, one of those is the hon. memher for 'T'wl.llinr,ate (}lr. Smallwood), the other, "r.

Speaker, who can do greRter .1ustice perhapB to answering those questions and to ~ettin~ this House and this govement straight, anrl who can one day become the government and go straight. He is younger. He is hrilliant. And he has stability. "'r. Speaker, he too, as tT1c Leader of thi!'l Opposition, the Official Opposition, , he too is go:fng 8625

'iay :' 'i, l'J7<; Nl" - 3 HI~ . Ci\N'NT'lG : to have to ;mswex; those questions that T told vou that the youth i.n my district would ask, the jleOple in :'e\iffounclland will ask, he is goinp; to have to ans1.rer those in the next fe•v years. lJe is r;oinr; to have to answer to the common T>er-ple of Ncvfounrllancl- I hate the word common- to the g:rcnt people of nf'\vfouncllancl. l'J'. NEARY: Ordinary. the ordinarv Newfounn1 RnrlP,.-, • 1m. CN:rNT.NC: '!'he orrlinarv 'le<~foundlander, the ordinary Forker, the wac;e ~'arner. necam;e, Hr. ~peaker, that 1s v.•hat gave this 1'0use sixteen memhers in npposition.

Pe vere not voted for hy the money crow1. We were not voted for by contractors. We were not voted for by those who f,Ot a conglomeration of companies, Mr. Speaker. HR. NEAP.Y: Hear! Hear! Thf' people who put us 0n this R:!.de of the !louse, :md the peon 1 c. who sent mp back are the ordinar:• reople of ~ewfoundland, the people 1vho hnilt Newfoundland, \vho made Ne•vfounclland wl1at it is. And the peor>le, 'lr. Speaker, who put me here were the coUDllon people. A~::ain,T. wish I vere on the Speech from the Throne.

I ~ould tell the story of T'l:' nprosition 1 tell the story of the few. the ha~dful. the few of thef'1, who moved in there, into the rlistrict, they are there, the neople whol'l I wtlJ be talking ab0ut today, that I have he en talking about, the few 1·1ho moved in. I huilt Haryst01m for them and they came in and then history repeated itself. They gave me the stah in the hack for giving them somewhere to make a decent livin~. nut, "!r. Speaker, the ni.ght before the election when the hig guns ca!'lf' up from St.

John's, the heavy artillery- T often ~~ondered why they goofed in calling t'lemselves the heavy guns and the heavy artillery when they ,,.ere cominr; U)J to go against me. I was the only one who literally l:ne1• ''hat big guns lVere and what heavy artillery was. No, Mr. Speaker, the offsnrinp; of the merchants of ~t. John's, the men tvho 1-Te had to fifht for Confederation, no longer on Hater Street - '·'n. rTT'ARY: "'he ant:f-ronfeclerates. 8626

·· no, tl-tey had moved inl::m o ., littll" hit. It too'' ~her.1 twC'nty -th rt'e years to set control n~ai.n 1 ~nd unfortunately t'"tey "111ve it nt tl1e moment . The}" b;uely got it though. Because "Vrn <;:; • . Tnlll' ' c: ab:o'>t ···o)W un . '~"! t r '''!ni.r.t:l"r of ' !in~s .:md T?nerr.: nlme>~;t ~"t