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May 9, 2013

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2013-May-09 (PDF)

L039 - Thu 9 May 2013 / Jeu 9 mai 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 9 May 2013 Jeudi 9 mai 2013

ORDERS OF THE DAY

LOCAL FOOD ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LES ALIMENTS LOCAUX

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

HEALTH CARE

POWER PLANTS

GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

TRANSIT FUNDING

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

WASTE DIVERSION

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

RESEARCH AND INNOVATION

WIND TURBINES

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

FIRE SAFETY

GOVERNMENT’S RECORD

DARLINGTON NUCLEAR

GENERATING STATION

NOTICE OF DISSATISFACTION

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

JEWISH HERITAGE MONTH

NATIONAL DAY OF MOURNING

ORGAN AND TISSUE DONATION

STRATFORD ACCELERATOR CENTRE

ELLIOT LAKE GAY PRIDE WEEKEND

KNIGHTS TABLE

NURSES

YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH

AGRICULTURE IN DURHAM

PETITIONS

AIR QUALITY

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES

ANIMAL PROTECTION

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

LAND USE PLANNING

AIR-RAIL LINK

ONTARIO COLLEGE OF TRADES

HYDRO RATES

TIRE DISPOSAL

TIRE DISPOSAL

MINING INDUSTRY

WORKPLACE INSURANCE

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN /

VIOLENCE FAITE AUX FEMMES

CHILDREN AND YOUTH IN CARE

DAY ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LE JOUR

DES ENFANTS ET DES JEUNES

PRIS EN CHARGE

ALZHEIMER ADVISORY

COUNCIL ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LE CONSEIL CONSULTATIF

DE LA MALADIE D’ALZHEIMER

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

CHILDREN AND YOUTH IN CARE

DAY ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LE JOUR

DES ENFANTS ET DES JEUNES

PRIS EN CHARGE

ALZHEIMER ADVISORY

COUNCIL ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LE CONSEIL CONSULTATIF

DE LA MALADIE D’ALZHEIMER

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PROSPEROUS AND FAIR ONTARIO ACT

(BUDGET MEASURES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 POUR UN ONTARIO

PROSPÈRE ET ÉQUITABLE

(MESURES BUDGÉTAIRES)

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

LOCAL FOOD ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LES ALIMENTS LOCAUX

Resuming the debate adjourned on May 2, 2013, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 36,

An Act to enact the Local Food Act, 2013 / Projet de loi 36, Loi édictant la Loi de 2013 sur les aliments locaux.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Mr. Randy Hillier: It’s my pleasure to speak to Bill 36 today. I guess this is the first bill introduced in the House by our new agriculture minister, and it’s pretty clear she’s new to the job, because if Bill 36 is supposed to do anything to improve or facilitate greater local food production and distribution, it fails miserably in its attempt.

I think what I’d like to do, for the Premier’s and the minister’s education, is read a little bit from a Globe and Mail story that was published in January of this year. I’ll just read portions of it, because I think it really indicates what is the problem with improving or increasing local food production and distribution.

It starts this way: “Two chicken inspectors showed up at a farm in southern Ontario not long ago. They flashed badges and inspected the premises and, sure enough, they found what they were looking for: chickens. About 100 of them, wandering across open pastures....

“The inspectors quickly put a stop to … that. They told the farmer to get rid of his chickens or face the consequences,” which are $10,000 a day.

Then they went around to all the other neighbouring farms with the same badges and the same threats. They were not the police or the RCMP or public health officials. They were employees of the Chicken Farmers of Ontario, the body that represents Ontario’s 1,000 quota-holding chicken farmers, and they have the legal right to inspect the books, records and documents, lands, and premises of anybody who has chickens in our province. You see, quota is a legal requirement for having turkeys, chickens, eggs or cows in Canada and in Ontario, and if you’re not a member of that cartel, then you are often acting illegally and in contravention of the law.

Just to give some context here, in Ontario, you are allowed to own upward of 300 chickens without purchasing quota, if you are registered with the Chicken Farmers of Ontario. But if you should want to have more than 300 chickens in Ontario, you have to buy quota, and to get into the business, the minimum allotment for chickens is about 90,000 units or $1.5 million at current rates. So you cannot be a small producer of chickens or turkeys or anything with feathers in this province unless you pay the $1.5-million entry fee into the cartel.

The same thing applies with eggs. If you want to be a small egg producer, you are allowed to have up to 100 laying hens, as long as they’re registered with the Egg Farmers of Ontario. Heaven forbid if somebody in the province should have an unregistered laying hen. They too are subject to those drastic and onerous fines if the chicken is not registered. The entry level to buy quota for eggs in this province is about 5,000 units or about $500,000 in costs to the cartel. I could go on; the same thing applies with dairy.

So as the Premier and the new Minister of Agriculture talks about her desire to increase distribution and production of local food in this province, even going so far as creating and proclaiming a new local food awareness week in October of each year, these tremendous, costly impediments and obstacles are there in front of everybody who should choose to want to be a producer of local food.

Speaker, I think it’s just hypocrisy to suggest that local food production, distribution and consumption is being facilitated by Bill 36 when these onerous obstacles are still present and not being touched. Once again, $500,000 to get into the egg business, unless you just want to have 100 hens: I would dare anybody in this Legislature and anybody in this province to make a profitable living with 100 chickens laying eggs. They might make $15 or $20 a day with the amount of eggs that 100 chickens can lay, certainly not enough to even pay the property tax on their barns, let alone earn a living for themselves and their family.

It is just ridiculous that this government continues to leave these problems and barriers in place. But it goes beyond and past the cartels and the quotas as well. If anybody cares to look at the regulations that surround moving your local produce—your local food—onto the tables of consumers, you will find an incredible maze of ridiculous, costly barriers called regulations.

Here’s one that I think people be might be interested to know. The Ontario Health Protection and Promotion Act lists what are appropriate foods that are to be sold at farmers’ markets. Of course, fresh meats are not allowed to be sold at farmers’ markets, and ungraded eggs are not allowed to be sold at farmers’ markets. But the health units do produce an appropriate list of what can be sold at farmers’ markets, and they include things such as canned pop, bags of potato chips, Popsicles and chewing gum. That is what this province has listed as appropriate products to be sold at a farmers’ market.

I have yet to come across a Popsicle tree, Speaker, and I bet you there’s not many people who have come across a Popsicle tree in this province, but it is allowed and appropriate to sell those Popsicles off the Popsicle trees at our farmers’ markets. It’s the same with chewing gum. I know there are bushes of chewing gum plants all across the province producing multitudes of chewing gum, and they of course are allowed at the farmers’ markets as well. But heaven forbid if somebody should want to sell an egg at a farmers’ market, or a chicken breast. Then they’re in trouble.

Then they’ve got the heavy hand of the law to deal with, just like those farmers in southern Ontario who were doing that vile, atrocious, evil act of having 100 unregistered chickens on their land and facing $10,000 in fines.

So I do think that if this government is indeed caring and compassionate for small producers, and interested and honestly, genuinely wanting to facilitate the increased production, distribution and consumption of local food, let’s start dealing with the real problems, and put your proclamation of food awareness week on the back burner and start dealing with the real problems.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Vanthof: Once again it’s an honour to be able to talk about food in this Legislature, and I have some specific comments to the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington. He used the word “hypocrisy.” Last week, the Dairy Farmers of Ontario were here, and I’m sure all three parties vowed to support supply management. Well, let’s talk about hypocrisy. A member of the Tory caucus just stood here and said that the cartels are going to bring farmers down. Dairy farming in Ontario provides 75,000 jobs. Does the Tory caucus supply management or does it not, as the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington said? That’s talking out of both side of the caucus’s mouth.

Interjections.

Mr. John Vanthof: No, this is a very serious issue. I’m here to stand up for the people in supply management, to stand up for the people who support this province, who create the jobs in this province. And the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington says it’s a cartel. Let’s come clear with the Tory party. Are you in favour? Is Tim Hudak in favour of supply management, or is he not? Because I have just heard, and I think our caucus has just heard, that this member is not in favour of supply management because of his ideology. Well, what is the ideology of the Tory party? I think we have the right—

Interjection.

Mr. John Vanthof: The 75,000 people who work in the dairy industry have the right to know if the Tory party is in favour of supply management, or is it not.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Hon. John Gerretsen: I couldn’t have said it better than the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane. On so many issues does the Tory party wants to have it two ways. They say one thing in their ridings and they say something totally different here. Speaker, as my colleague from just north of my riding has stated, he claims there isn’t much in the bill. We think there’s lots in the bill. We’ve debated it here now for 20 hours, and it’s time that we vote on the bill and send it to committee.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: I’m very pleased to respond as well. I want to address that directly. I can tell you that I have some of the most successful farm operations throughout my riding, including supply management, which I would support. I would say the question here is on Bill 36. I think it was just completely extemporaneous and quite angry comments from the member from Timiskaming. I know he himself is a proud farmer—a dairy farmer, I believe—and so I have every reason to embrace his passion for the topic. But I’ll make it local food.

This is an

article from the media last week, not precipitated by any action of mine, but a fellow I know quite well, Ted Eng. He’s a farmer and owner of Zephyr Organics and employs a team composed of family, local and migrant workers. He’s pictured here showing one of the migrant workers, Peter Bartley from Jamaica, weeding a greenhouse plant operation of leeks. This is a proud farm. This is a fellow, the Eng family, some of the most wonderful property in Uxbridge township. He served on council as a regional councillor. He served on the Durham Agricultural Advisory Committee and the GTA agricultural advisory committee.

He’s active in the community. He’s active in leadership in agriculture. These are the things that we should be celebrating.

The anger that the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington is upset with is that this bill is much to do about nothing. Bill 36 does nothing. I can tell you, there’s more success just from the farms themselves. This is the Evans family farm abuzz—

Hon. John Gerretsen: What about supply management? Are you in favour of that?

Mr. John O’Toole: I certainly am in favour of supply management. I’ve been quite clear on that.

I would say that I believe that agriculture is the largest real business in this province. Now, this government could do more to cut down some of the red tape. I fully endorse that. Unnecessary red tape and regulations are hurting farming in Ontario.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jonah Schein: It’s a pleasure to rise in the House this morning and speak again about food. I’m looking forward to this bill getting into committee. I hope at that point we can put some substance to this bill.

I do want to take a moment in this debate to make a point that I’ve made before, which is about access to any kind of food in this province. This week is one of these weeks that we talk about it. It’s Hunger Awareness Week in Ontario. We have this week, and it hasn’t stopped hunger. We have a bill before us that proposes Local Food Week, and I don’t actually think that that is going to solve our local food issues in Ontario. But the issue of hunger is something that we should focus on.

We have a budget that was introduced last week. The Attorney General yesterday, in our housing debate, was talking about the Tories’ record when it came to cutting social assistance benefits to people. You know, I read in the weekend newspaper about a former minister here who made those cuts, and he kind of expressed that he didn’t actually know what he was doing when he did that. He had no understanding of the impacts of that. I thought that was telling. It was clear to people who understood that a 22% cut to somebody making $550 just won’t allow people to eat.

But to the Attorney General, where I do disagree is that in fact rates in Ontario are now worse than they were when you came into office, sir. In fact, people are worse off if they don’t have work in Ontario than they were when the Liberals came to power. That is something that has not been addressed. In this budget we’ve seen further cuts. You know, at the end of this year, community start-up benefits will expire. That means that people will not have access to emergency supports when they are in need.

So while we’re talking about a Local Food Week in Ontario, we’re failing to do the very basics to make sure that 600,000-plus people who don’t have work actually have support when they need it. I think that is something that we do need to focus on.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington, you have two minutes for a response.

Mr. Randy Hillier: I guess I hit something raw with the member from Timiskaming. Maybe we’ll have to pasteurize him a little bit here and calm him down. The thrust of my comments is thus: There are real, tangible, significant barriers for local producers to get their product to consumers. If we don’t deal with them, all the proclamations and all the awareness weeks in the world will do nothing for those people, both the consumers and the producers. I talk about hypocrisy. This is hypocrisy, that when a bill—

Hon. John Gerretsen: You can’t say that in here.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I would ask the member to withdraw. It’s unparliamentary.

Mr. Randy Hillier: I’ll withdraw.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you.

Mr. Randy Hillier: But certainly we can see the contradictions between putting forth a bill that says, “The Liberals have a big, big heart for local food, they are compassionate about the local producer, they want to facilitate and help and make everything possible,” but then they run and hide from the real barriers, the real problems.

Nowhere did I hear from anybody—from the Attorney General or the member from Timiskaming—about the Popsicle trees that grow here in Ontario but that are facilitated and allowed by our regulations. Let’s deal with the real problems and the cost. The cost of entry into local food is prohibitive. When you have to spend $500,000 to get into selling eggs—that’s the entry fee—that is an impediment.

Let’s wake up and really, surely show that you do have a heart and that you do have some care and compassion for consumers and local producers.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mrs. Jane McKenna: It’s my pleasure to rise to speak to Bill 36, the Local Food Act, and to celebrate local food and its roots in my riding.

Burlington is a wonderful place to live and is home to great natural beauty: a limestone escarpment threading through woodlands of oak, pine, ash and maple, and a waterfront lapped by the waters of Lake Ontario. Although it is thought of as suburban these days, it was at one time called the garden of Canada, in recognition of its land, thought to be some of the richest, best settled and most highly cultivated in Upper Canada.

Like many settlements at that time, agriculture was a big part of life in early Burlington. While Halton’s agriculture is mostly found north of Dundas Street these days, at one point it was far more commonplace and widespread. You’ll find a hint of this on Burlington’s crest, which features a bright, red apple. The apple is symbolic of the area’s fruit-growing industry, which dates back to the days of the United Empire Loyalists.

History records that more than 200 years ago, members of the Ghent and Davis families, early settlers of Burlington, paddled across Burlington Bay in canoes carrying apple saplings brought up from the Carolinas as seeds and raised to whips in the Stoney Creek area. My constituency office is located on a street named for the Ghent family, and orchards once fanned out across fields just a couple of blocks south of my constituency office.

Off to the east, the plots along Maple Avenue were once home to vegetable crops. Market gardens also flourished between downtown Burlington and the village of Aldershot, even further east. If you look closely, you can still see some of the signs of those market gardens in neighbourhoods along Plains Road.

By the late 19th century, local growers were developing a reputation as pioneers of a different sort, dabbling in technology and using cold storage to export perishable fruits, not just across the province, but also overseas. Local growers dedicated themselves to science and knowledge of the land, determining which varieties of fruit were best adapted to the area’s soil and climate. Through these efforts, the area’s productive fruit acreage doubled, and they didn’t just stop with fruit. The same appetite for discovery and improvement spun off over 250 varieties of hardy and delicious crops being produced.

Between 1892 and 1902, the Burlington Horticultural Society captured first prize at Toronto’s Industrial Exhibition for the best collection of fruits. This standing was mirrored far abroad at the Chicago World’s Fair in 1896, the Paris and Glasgow exhibitions in 1900, and Buffalo’s Pan-American Exposition in 1901.

Agricultural production in Burlington peaked between the great wars, but the land still bears the names of those who made a living as farmers. We remember some in our streets or parks, others in our institutions. You’ll find a high school named after M.M. Robinson, the founder of what we now know as the Commonwealth Games. Robinson also founded the Ontario Food Council and served as vice-chairman of the Ontario Food Terminal.

As important as that heritage is, it’s equally vital that we not lose sight of the fantastic legacy that is all around us even today, Speaker. I think on some level that’s what Bill 36 sets out to do. In a broad-brush sense, it underlines the importance of local food and seeks to foster a greater awareness and appreciation of the importance of sourcing where food comes from, how it is grown and sometimes even who is responsible for growing it.

Having spoken about the distant past, I think all of us here feel an enormous sense of gratitude for the convenience granted to us by modern times and technologies. Anyone who grew up during the 1960s and 1970s can probably still remember when shoppers didn’t have nearly as many options as are available—and widely available—to the consumers of today. Even then, things were more seasonal.

The act of eating, mechanically speaking, hasn’t changed much since the dawn of time. Chewing, swallowing, digesting—you can’t really do a lot to change up the routine, Speaker. But as far as what you put on your plate, how you prepare it and how you source the ingredients, all of those factors are now far more variable than they used to be. That’s true even if you decide to leave the cooking to someone else. Our chefs and restaurants now work from a palette of options that would have been unimaginable outside the finest kitchens until the last 20 years, Speaker.

That variety is made possible by thoughtful and dedicated farmers, as well as a robust distribution network, but it is sustained by consumers’ choice and conscious effort. Today, victory gardens and community agriculture are taking root in my riding thanks to the efforts of BurlingtonGreen, which is helping to improve awareness of people sourcing their food from local suppliers and farmers, and creating and managing a community garden in partnership with the city of Burlington.

Consumers’ tastes have helped to shape the evolution of farming practices as well, of course, making things like heritage livestock and organic vegetables, biodynamic wines and cheeses much more readily available, if not quite the stuff of corner stores.

Even though it continues to evolve and face new and imposing challenges, the agriculture sector remains a major economic engine in this province. It’s impossible to imagine a future without food and farming, and yet in my view we continue to be overly confident when it comes to the critical matter of food security. This is just one reason why legislation to strengthen this sector is so important, Speaker. It gives the government an opportunity to support a critical sector and help to develop local food systems in communities across this province.

It is essential that the government seize this opportunity to do real and substantial good. Our food system and agriculture sector face a number of serious challenges, from red tape to hydro bill shocks to crushing eco fees on agricultural tires, so it’s curious and more than a little disappointing that the government has failed to address those concerns in this bill, Speaker.

As some have suggested, a critical step to realizing the goals of a stronger food system in this province is improving food literacy, and that’s a steeper hill than many realize. Mark Wales, president of the Ontario Federation of Agriculture, has warned about the high cost of school programming that doesn’t make time for home economics instruction. We’re raising a generation that, for the most part, can’t cook a meal from scratch. To local producers and growers in Ontario, that’s not a healthy sign, Speaker.

Prepared and prepackaged foods certainly have a key role, and I’m proud to salute outstanding and long-standing local businesses like Ippolito Group, Fearmans Pork, Tender Choice and Voortman Cookies, but they’re not a substitute for practical knowledge. They’re not the whole picture.

Neither is Bill 36 the complete picture, Speaker. Many of those who have spoken before me have detailed the blind spots and shortcomings of the proposed legislation or it’s missteps such as bigfooting Ontario Agriculture Week with the newly minted Local Food Week. This sector is big and diverse enough to accommodate both, but there’s no credible reason they should fall on the same week.

We also know that agriculture and local food organizations have submitted a considerable number of ideas and proposals for this bill, which were ignored by the government. My colleague from Oxford has done exceptional work in a white paper that outlines a number of concrete ways we could strengthen our food system, boost access to local food and help our agriculture sector. But, for some reason, the government has chosen to ignore stakeholders’ input and opposition proposals, and simply reintroduced what is essentially the same thin bill that we saw in the House last fall.

We’ve seen this kind of unconscious behaviour from the government before, but, to be frank, we expect better from the Premier.

I know that we can do better than Bill 36 as it stands. While I’m prepared to help this bill get to committee, I hope that the government will take that opportunity to make this bill everything it can be and everything it should be for the good of our farmers and, indeed, for all Ontarians.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Mantha: It is with great joy that I stand this week to talk about the Local Food Act, because last week I left off talking about the Local Food Act with a big concern for people on Manitoulin Island, that there are so many farmers, so many farmers’ markets and so many people that count on attracting and welcoming people to Manitoulin Island that that was in danger of happening.

I’m a man of my word. I give credit where credit is due, and I must say I’m very pleased to see my friend across the way, the Minister for Northern Development and Mines, who is here. We worked very hard in order to get this done, and I have to say I’m very happy that he stepped up to the plate and heard the call of the people of Manitoulin Island and has released the funding that is needed in order to get the Chi-Cheemaun running again so that people can welcome them—from the Island—so they can start selling their product.

However, we’ve hit another barrier. Now it’s in order to get the federal government to respond and actually authorize this to happen, because it is a federal jurisdiction. So we need to continue putting pressure on our cousins at the federal level in order to get this done. It would be nice to see some movement on there.

Now back to this bill. What I would like to see, and what a lot of individuals across Algoma–Manitoulin would like to see, is a process where there’s going to be a sincere demonstration that their input will actually be considered in this bill. I don’t see any steps, or I don’t see any concrete formats, in regard to how they’re going to have that opportunity. In what arena, in what realm, will they be able to offer their points of view?

I’m hoping that once we get this to the committee stage, that we can actually get those nailed down so that they feel—although they’re in northern Ontario, and they’re smaller than the big players—that they will have a sincere way of bringing their contributions—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. Questions and comments?

Mr. Grant Crack: I’d like to thank the member from Burlington for her 10 minutes, as well as the member from Algoma–Manitoulin for his comments.

Speaker, we’ve had 20-plus hours debate on this issue. The member from Burlington indicates that we can do better with this bill. Perhaps that could be the case. I would ask them to help us put this bill into committee so that we can actually do some work on it instead of standing here and sitting here, and listening to the opposition hear themselves talk. I would recommend that everybody end the debate; send it to committee.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: I do appreciate, and I was quite moved by, the comments from the member from Burlington, because she described the pastoral scene of where she’s proud to be the member with a sense of passion and knowledge—technically, the way she described the very foundations of the community that she represents. So I commend you for that, and I feel very strongly myself.

This morning there’s been some discussion about supply management here, and clearly on our side. It’s the foundational part of agriculture is ensuring we have supply of safe, quality food for Ontario’s citizens. Now, this is a family, the Evans family, and the

article says the farm is abuzz. Now, let’s put this in context. The Evans family—the principal fellows involved here are Grant Evans and his brother, Eldon Evans. They have a sprawling Highview Holsteins Ltd. farm near Epsom, Ontario. I’d encourage people—there’s another pastoral scene that you could visit this summer.

Durham region is home to 1,454 farms, and these farmers farm 297,702 acres. Some 42,600 acres are pasture; 32,138 are Christmas trees—horticulture, I guess; and the other 209,000 are acreage crop, what you call cash cropping. Now, the Evans operation alone is just one small business unit in my riding, and this is the story across Ontario. For instance, the York region has 828 farms, with 153,000 acres in use; Halton region has 469 farms, with 79,000 acres in use; and Peel has 440 farms, and they farm 93,000 acres.

Now, the Holsteins at the Evans farm: The farm works 1,800 acres and has 460 cows—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. Questions and comments? The member for Timiskaming–Cochrane.

Mr. John Vanthof: Thank you, Speaker. Once again it’s an honour to be able to talk about local food and food in general in Ontario, and to comment on the member from Burlington. As opposed to the last speech from the Conservative side, I agree with almost everything she said. It is obviously a split party, because there are some reasonable and some totally unreasonable. You know, I would like a confirmation from the leader of the Tories regarding supply management, because obviously what we heard this morning was completely, completely anti-supply management.

Interjection.

Mr. John Vanthof: Well, he should make it again, because his caucus, some of them, are making statements that are way out there.

As for the Local Food Act, the problems with the Local Food Act—good, nice statements, but they reflect a lot of the problems in the Liberal government, because it sets lofty goals, with no framework how to achieve those goals. Actually, it doesn’t even say what the goals are.

In the budget, it allocates $30 million—I believe it’s $30 million—over three years, but if you look at the Local Food Act, it says, “We’re only going to tell you how we’re going to spend the money three years from now.” Obviously, that’s a problem, and it’s obvious why we have to, in this Legislature, implement measures that hold the government accountable while it’s spending money. It’s great to look at the scandals after they’re done, but then the money’s already gone.

The Local Food Act is a small example, but it is an example of, “We’re going to take $30 million and talk about what we did with it three years from now,” and that’s wrong.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. Further debate?

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): My apologies. The member for Burlington, you have two minutes for a reply.

Mrs. Jane McKenna: Thank you, Speaker. I’d like to thank the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane. I always like to hear you speak. You’re a very good speaker and very articulate and passionate, but your Uncle Ernie, the member from Oxford, said that our leader, Tim Hudak, has said it numerous times. So I’m just going to clear that up before I start.

As I said earlier, this legislation, as it stands, is abundantly flawed. There is, and it has been said repeatedly, no need to pit Ontario Agriculture Week against Local Food Week. But as it turns out, that misstep actually spotlights a bigger problem with this legislation, which is that it tends to miss the obvious. In doing so, it misses out on doing the most good for a sector facing many challenges.

Again, stakeholders across the agriculture and food sectors have a lot of good ideas about how this legislation could be made better. This party, and in particular its agriculture critic, have put forward a host of proposals for strengthening our food system, increasing access to local food and helping our agriculture sector. Our food system and agriculture sector face a number of serious challenges, from red tape to hydro bills and shocking to crushing eco fees on agricultural tires, so it’s curious and more than a little disappointing that this government has failed to address these concerns in this bill.

At the end of the day, the government has essentially chosen to ignore stakeholders’ input and opposition proposals and to introduce a piece of legislation that is essentially identical to what we saw here in the House last fall. This government owes it to the people of this province to take the opportunity presented by committee and make the most of it. Let’s roll up your sleeves, get under the hood and fix this legislation, or it will stall out before it can do the job you intended it to do.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I’m proud to stand up today and give my two cents’ worth on Bill 36,

An Act to enact the Local Food Act.

I’d like to start out saying that we should all thank a farmer for what they do for our province and what they do for our economy. Especially the government of today should be thanking a farmer because if it wasn’t for the success of the farmer in our society, the only industry that’s really churning along, this province would be down the sewer without them. So we’ve got to thank the farmer for keeping our economy going.

Mr. Speaker, just to expand upon the economic strength of the economy due to agriculture, let’s look at what they’ve done to the manufacturing sectors. St. Thomas, in my riding, has a population of 37,000 people. Since 2006, our city has lost 6,000 manufacturing jobs. Take a look; that’s almost 20% of the population, if you think about that. It’s ranging from small to larger-size jobs. Schulman lost 134 jobs; Accuwright millwork lost seven; Alcoa, 152; Arvin Meritor, 30; Conmet, 10; Contrend, 157; Emerson Network Power, 195; Flexalloy, 10; Ford Motor Co., 2,387; Lear St. Thomas, 303; L.A.

Walker Transport, 256; Mutt and Co., two; Parker Hannifin, three; Potters Canada Partnership, 20; Rite-Form Tool and Die, 11; Sterling Truck, 2,200; Thermodisk, 373; Woolsoly, 31; and ZF Linkstan, 94. And to top it off, at the end of this month, Timken, which has been part of our city since the 1940s, will be shutting down, and another 300 jobs lost.

The only thing that’s really keeping our economy going in our area is the fact that we have good land and we have smart, educated farmers who are producing product in order to spend in our economy.

I think this government brought out this bill—what they should be doing is helping the economic situation of the farmer. We put through plenty of ideas in Paths to Prosperity. I would have hoped that this bill would have encompassed some of them. Trying to reduce some red tape and regulation for these farmers: The easiest way to do that is to follow Ernie Hardeman’s idea, the member from Oxford. Have one window of access for these poor farmers who want to do something with their land or build a new barn or do something interesting with their business.

Let them go to just one part of the government instead of having to go through many different ministries. Let’s work with them. That alone would really, really ease their pain in dealing with government.

We need to get a hold of our hydro rates, the amount of hydro that our farmers are using on the dairy farms, the pig farms, the chicken farms. Let’s try to work with those costs so that they aren’t struggling, so that when they want to pass the farm onto their children, the high expense and the cost of the land to buy the farm, the kids will want to come back and take over the farm. Instead, they’re now having trouble, with the high energy costs, to actually pass on the farm because of the high costs associated with it.

One thing that they could do for agriculture is they could have stopped the destruction of the horse racing industry, the slots at racetracks. And I do have to say to my friends to the left here that the time to do it would be to not support this budget. This is the last chance for the horse racing industry, but if you want to sell your soul for a 15% cut in auto insurance over the horse racing industry, I think—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order. I would ask the member to withdraw.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I will withdraw.

The other thing that they should be doing is have a dedicated fund for risk management. That’s another one that’s come out from our Paths to Prosperity. Instead of having a general fund that other government agencies can take from, let’s have that fund set aside so that when the farmers do need it, when we actually have a bad crop year, it’s there for them to keep on going. The poor apple farmers last year: A lot of them have suffered and gone without due to the fact that a lot of that money isn’t there for them.

Mr. Speaker, I’d also like to touch upon this food act. We’re going to bring forth an amendment that the members from Nepean–Carleton and Oxford have put forth to add food literacy for our students in our schools. I think that it’s very important to add it to our education. It has been identified that only 41% of people age 18 to 34 actually know where food comes from. I think that’s startling because how can you expect to cook healthy food? How do you expect to support local food if you don’t understand where it comes from and understand how it helps the economy and helps provide the services like health care and education that we have today? So we need to add that food literacy.

While we’re adding that food literacy in our education program, I think we also need to look at adding some financial literacy for our students. There are too many kids today who are graduating already in debt and aren’t able to manage that debt, let alone they get married and buy a house; they’re in over their heads. If we can get some financial literacy into the school system, they’ll be far better ahead at the end of the day, when they start out their life, when they start their new job, get their new family, and able to plan for proper retirement.

Because I tell you, the way this government is headed, we’re in trouble. We’re in trouble, and we need people to be educated. We need them to understand what they need to do with their money. We also need them to understand where their food comes from. If we can help put that into our education system, make it a priority, I think we can make a better Ontario.

Mr. Speaker, this Saturday our local farmers’ market opens up, the Horton market, and it’s in St. Thomas. All the farmers—there will be a nice big breakfast today. We make it, in our family, kind of a tradition to go every Saturday morning to get our vegetables and fruits for the week. There’s a bakery there; we get some bakery. There’s a butcher; we get my daughter her meat for her sandwiches for school for the week there, usually on Saturday.

So it will be very nice to see all the vendors out there. I tell you, it draws from a wide range. We usually show up, and the president of OFA, Mark Wales, usually has a booth there with his garlic and his peppers that he grows. And then we’ll go down to McSmith’s Organic Farm. Excellent. We always get her cabbage that she’s chopped up and, of course, her lettuce. It’s really enjoyable to see them.

It becomes a family atmosphere, these farmers’ markets. The kids can get their face painted, they can get a balloon, and then around the corner there will be the crafts.

The gentleman who paints my house, Chuck Magri—his wife grows herbs, and she sells her teas there. Then we’ll go inside, and of course, the bakery will be there. We’ll buy the cookies. We’ll buy a breakfast sandwich. I won’t too often because I eat too much while I’m here, so I cut back and just have a coffee. At the end, of course, as I said, the butcher—and the turkey shop. There’s a turkey farmer, Oegema farms. We always get the little bacon-wrapped turkey—I don’t know what you call it, but I call it bacon-wrapped turkey—and the little turkey pepperettes.

All that is local. It’s packed with people, and we support the local farmers who come and sell their wares. What we need to do is expand upon that. Let’s try to encourage southwest Ontario to have more of producers in the area.

I think a great idea from the member from Oxford is maybe producing a second food terminal. I think a second food terminal would be in an excellent position to come to my riding of Elgin–Middlesex–London. It’s halfway between Windsor, Toronto and Buffalo. As I said earlier, we’ve been devastated by job loss. I think it would be an excellent idea if this government brought that idea forward. We’re more than welcome to bring that food processing. If we can generate more food processing, our farmers can grow more food. Our farmers can sell more food. It can create jobs, and it will have a beneficial trickle-down effect throughout the economy.

So as I stated before, we thank the farmers. We thank them for what they do. We hope to teach our kids to understand where food comes from, and we hope this government acknowledges the fact that this is the only industry that is working in this province, that is bringing in—that is keeping this province afloat, and we need to support them.

The Local Food Act needs a lot of amendments to it, and we’re going to put those forward when this bill passes. We just need to ensure that our farmers stay strong. For Elgin–Middlesex–London, it’s a key component to our economy, and for southwest Ontario, ditto.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Prue: I listened intently to the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London. He had a lot to say which was commendable, but there were a couple of points that I think need to be emphasized here.

First of all, he said rightly that this bill requires a number of amendments. I am in total agreement with him. But the amendments cannot be made here in this Legislature during second reading. The amendments have to be made in committee, and many of us want this bill to go to committee so that those good amendments that he says he has can be heard, can be debated and can be implemented.

He talked about the NDP members selling their souls, and I’m not sure whether that’s still on the record, but he was asked to withdraw it. But we think that the process in a minority government and in this Legislature, and even in a majority government, should always be one of consultation, of negotiation between the parties and the party leaders and the party House leaders, and that the proposal of new ideas is what is going to move Ontario forward.

That’s what we’re trying to do around the budget process, that’s what we’re trying to do around this bill, versus what I would suggest at this point has become little more than a filibuster on a bill that every single member of this Legislature agrees with and that every single member of this Legislature knows has to be amended in committee. I would hope this is the last speaker. It was a good speech. Please, just let us get on with this.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: The member for Elgin–Middlesex–London sometimes never ceases to amaze me. To say that agriculture is the only sector of the economy that is actually growing jobs is so patently absurd, and it’s an insult to businesses across this province.

Mr. Speaker, 4.4% of small businesses right now in this province are generating about 50% of jobs. That is 400,000 jobs. We as a government—and this is also true in the agricultural sector—have doubled our university education places, because 70% or 80% of jobs being created in Ontario now require university education.

Some of those small businesses are in the agricultural centre, people like Lloyd Wicks up in Haliburton right now, who is trying to turn his goat farm into a place to produce a lactose goat milk for babies. Why can’t he do that, Mr. Speaker? Because the federal government’s health regulations won’t allow him to do the research and won’t give him the certification to get the research. So we have more bureaucracy.

My dear friend Lloyd Wicks has to compete with goat’s milk made in China, which has to go through no inspections, no research. He can’t get the permission in this country to do that. What happens if the goat’s milk from China is tainted? The only safety regulation is that you can call Health Canada and complain. But my friend Lloyd Wicks, who runs a clean operation, has to do that. We want to bring that innovation economy to rural Ontario in a bigger way.

But I find it insulting. My family had a dairy farm in Glengarry and I, as a member in an urban area, get really intolerant of some of the ignorance about farming, but when I have people from rural Ontario trash our small business sector and don’t realize that we have the highest growth in clean technology, information technology—the XLV lab, started by two students, didn’t exist five years ago and now has 1,000 employees in my constituency.

Mr. Speaker, I love farmers, but let’s not play the game against city folks; some of us are doing a lot for this economy as well.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Oxford.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: I want to commend the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London on putting forward a number of great ideas, including some from our recently released white paper on respect for agriculture. In this paper, we look at ideas to solve the challenges that our agriculture industry is facing, and we commit to those parts that are working, like supply management. Obviously, there was some debate earlier in this meeting about the issue of supply management. I know that this is something that the PC Party has consistently supported. Our leader, Tim Hudak, has been a strong champion of supply management—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Attorney General, come to order, please.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: —agriculture round tables across Ontario, like the one in Grey–Bruce, committing to it in our last platform and included in our white paper.

I also want to just quickly commend the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London for his going through the white paper but also recognizing one of the great concerns that the agriculture community had, which was to put more food literacy training in our educational system, and that’s why we are hoping to be putting forward, when we can get this bill to committee, a motion to include food literacy in the classroom, through the Education Act, into the curriculum, so that students will learn more about where food comes from and what it means and what types of foods one should eat.

I think it’s very important that we put that into legislation, to make sure that it’s being done and it doesn’t get left behind as an optional as opposed to a mandatory topic that must be taught to all children.

I think that’s why our education critic mentioned it in her remarks last week or the week before, that that’s what we were hoping to do collectively as agriculture critic and as education critic, to make sure that we provided a type of education for our students in the curriculum that would help them become healthier in what they eat and also in how they grow up. Obviously, the better you eat, the better you’ll grow up. Obviously, our pages know that and, obviously, they’ve done a very successful job of it so far.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Algoma–Manitoulin.

Mr. Michael Mantha: Once again, I’m pleased to get up and talk to the Local Food Act. I want to commend the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London. He did bring up a few good points, and I’m really appreciative that he kept them local to his area, which is productive in here. If we’re going to just repeat some of our bullet notes, it’s really not useful. So I was listening to your comments, and I really appreciate it.

However, you did touch on a couple of points. You said something about adding food literacy and financial literacy. I would encourage you to talk to your caucus members and also look at budget literacy, because you need to read the budget before you make a decision, because you don’t know what’s in it before you can actually bring that benefit back to your constituents back home. Yes, we’re in trouble. We’re in even greater trouble if you’re not going to take the time to review, negotiate, think and talk on behalf of your constituents in order to implement the changes that you need.

I want to introduce you to a little piece of red tape that we have in another region of Algoma–Manitoulin, which is along the North Shore. I want to introduce this House to a passionate gentleman. His name is Dale Wedgwood. He’s an individual who has taken upon himself the passion, the anger and the frustration of farmers in that area in order to address what I’ll refer to as red tape—along with the mayor of Huron Shores, Mr. Gil Reeves. They have taken it upon themselves to propel and bring the frustrations of farmers because they cannot constructively farm their lands. They’re not fighting with bureaucrats.

They’re not fighting red tape. They’re fighting with elk, and it’s destroying their livelihood. We’re talking about 15,000 to 30,000 to 50,000 a month.

I have no problem with elk and—you know what?—neither do these farmers. But they do have a concern that they cannot properly farm. When they’re chasing elk and they’re being told they cannot protect their livelihood, it is very difficult for a farmer to make a living.

So I would really expect that my biggest concern in this is that there is a sincere opportunity for all farmers on the North Shore, on Manitoulin Island, across Algoma–Manitoulin and across Ontario to really have an opportunity to give their views as to how we can improve this act.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member has two minutes for a response.

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I’d like to thank those who offered their thoughts on my debate: the member from Beaches–East York, the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation, the member from Oxford and the member from Algoma–Manitoulin.

I have to start out just by saying I’m glad I had the opportunity to speak on this bill. It’s what I was elected to do. I consulted with my area farmers and other constituents who aren’t farmers, on this bill. I’ve had conversations on it, and I wanted to bring forth their thoughts and our party’s thoughts to this floor. For any member to say that I shouldn’t speak, and to get this to committee, I think that’s wrong. I don’t agree with that. We’re here to represent our constituents. That’s what I was doing, and I will continue to do so.

I will never cede the floor to pass something and rush it through without having the opportunity to bring forth the thoughts of my constituents, because I think it’s very, very important.

I also think we need to keep our discussion focused on the province of Ontario. It is up to the government to deal with the federal government, but to always blame them for any inadequacy of the province, I think, is not helpful in any discussion.

With regard to this bill, we need to keep the discussion going, ensure we get all the ideas out, so when it does go to committee, they have our thoughts in front of them, so when they bring members to bring their thoughts forward to speak at committee, we can make the appropriate recommendations and changes to this bill.

I look forward to more discussion on this bill. I think it’s very important that each member gets the opportunity, if they so choose, to speak, to bring forth their ideas. It’s up to the member themselves; it’s not up to other parties to say, “Stop speaking.” That’s dead wrong. That’s not democratic.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Norm Miller: I’m pleased to have the opportunity to speak to Bill 36,

An Act to enact the Local Food Act, 2013. Let me begin by just summarizing a bit of what the bill does. It enacts a food week; the week before Thanksgiving Day is proclaimed Local Food Week. I would say at the onset, I hope this doesn’t take away from Agriculture Week. I remember our past PC member Bert Johnson was very proud of bringing about Agriculture Week, and Local Food Week and Agriculture Week are very different.

The bill also allows—the Minister of Agriculture “may ... establish goals or targets to aspire to in respect of local food.” “The minister may direct a public sector organization to provide ... information in order to assist....” The only thing the minister must do is prepare a report about local food activity at least every three years. That’s basically all the bill does, which is not that much, Mr. Speaker.

But it does give me an opportunity to talk about some of the local agriculture and local food initiatives in Parry Sound–Muskoka of which I am very proud. People may not think of Parry Sound–Muskoka as being a big farming area, a big agriculture area, but there is certainly a strong history of agriculture in Parry Sound–Muskoka, and that’s demonstrated every fall. I think I have some 14 fall fairs, of which I try to attend just about all of them, and they’re a great opportunity for people visiting the area to sort of have more of a connection to rural roots and see where food comes from and learn a bit about it as well.

But we have some initiatives promoting local food. There’s Savour Muskoka, which is an organization that is really trying to promote local food. I had the opportunity to go to Brooklands Farm, which is located in Milford Bay. It’s owned by Ken and Katya Riley; they’ve had a farm for a long time there. They’re really involved in all kinds of initiatives. I was there in the peak of maple syrup season, because they do produce maple syrup there. They also grow berries; you can pick your own berries. They grow asparagus, and they grow many other different products there. They supply a lot of the local restaurants as well from Brooklands Farms.

Some of our agriculture businesses are not maybe that traditional or common everywhere, partly because our landscape. So we have Johnston’s Cranberry Marsh—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Can I ask members to my right to keep it a little quiet?

Mr. Norm Miller: —which is located in Bala, which of course is the cranberry capital of Canada. I would encourage all people, if they haven’t gone to it, to make sure they visit the Bala Cranberry Festival, which is always the weekend right after Thanksgiving. Shortly after Local Food Week, should this bill pass, you can have the opportunity to visit Bala and tour Johnston’s Cranberry Marsh and the other cranberry marshes in the area. Murray Johnston and Wendy Hogarth have Johnston’s Cranberry Marsh, and they’ve started a new business.

Things were tough a few years ago, so they got into making cranberry wine as well. They now have Muskoka Lakes Winery, and that’s been a popular addition to it as well.

We also have some retail businesses that are promoting local foods. I think in particular of Muskoka Meats, which is located on Highway 11 just south of Gravenhurst. David Purdon operates it, and it’s a 100-mile store, so everything within the store has to come from within 100 miles of Muskoka Meats. I would certainly recommend stopping to visit that as well if you’re driving up Highway 11 just south of Gravenhurst.

Other local agricultural businesses: We have Milford Bay Trout Farm, which is run by Ralph and Wendy Uhde. They not only grow, I think it’s rainbow trout there, but they also produce some very delicious smoked trout from their family recipe, and trout pâté, which if you haven’t tried it, you absolutely should try it. I’d recommend it. Again, you can visit the farm, but also there are local retailers that sell it. I have seen it for sale even as far away as Toronto, so you can get it in a few places in Toronto, the Milford Bay trout, as well.

But other businesses you may not think about that are members of Savour Muskoka, like Riverglen Farms in Port Sydney: Dave and Meredith Hiscox. There are producers of a lot of different fine products, like Yummies in a Jar’s Lynn Murden.

Of course, we have a new industry starting in Parry Sound–Muskoka that is food-related, and that is breweries that we have coming up. We now actually have three different breweries in Parry Sound–Muskoka, the first being Muskoka Brewery, I believe it was. I’m pleased to see that they’ve just won some awards at the 2013 Ontario Brewing Awards in April of this year.

Muskoka Cream Ale, which is one of my favourite beers, has won the gold medal in the British pale ale category, Summer Weiss won the gold medal in German-style wheat beer, Mad Tom IPA won the bronze award in North American IPA, and Muskoka Craft Lager won a silver award in North American lager. They’re doing a great job. They’ve just expanded. I know last year, their expansion—they are producing 90% more than they were.

Lake of Bays Brewing Company, located in Baysville, is also doing a great job and produces some fine beers; they’re also my favourites.

The newest brewery is Highlander, which is located in South River, in east Parry Sound. That was started by Brian Wilson; now he has a partner, Dwayne Wanner. They were down here at Queen’s Park recently for the competition that happens annually, the Speaker’s competition where the best beers are picked. I’m happy to say that their Scottish Ale was selected as one of the winners here at Queen’s Park.

So there is a lot of activity going on in Parry Sound–Muskoka, but there are also some significant impediments that the government should be dealing with, that are within the provincial purview, in terms of making more food accessible.

The first point I’d like to make is abattoirs. There are so many rules nowadays to do with abattoirs, particularly—I think they’re designed for the great, big factory-sized abattoirs, but we have very small abattoirs in Parry Sound–Muskoka. We have Sprucedale Quality Meats and we have Northern Meat Packers—just outside the riding in Trout Creek, but they serve the riding. I know I’ve talked to the owners of Sprucedale Quality Meats, and they’ve complained about how onerous the rules are. You don’t hear about the small abattoirs having problems; it’s usually the large meat packers.

I think we need a little flexibility with those small producers, because the problem is, we’ve had fewer and fewer abattoirs. More of them are going out of business around the province, mainly because of the rules the government comes up with. The result is that farmers—beef producers and other producers—don’t have a place to take their products to get them packaged and slaughtered. That’s a real challenge, and we’ve seen fewer and fewer abattoirs.

I know at Sprucedale Quality Meats, in talking to the owner, he also complained about the reliability of electricity. He actually can’t operate in the summer because he can’t depend on the electricity; if it goes off, it means he has to throw everything out.

We’ve also seen in recent years in our riding the closure of the only sales yard that I’m aware of. That closed in 2012. There’s an

article here written by Rob Learn that was on NorthBayNipissing.com from April 2012; his dad, Gord Learn, was the president of the board of directors for many, many years. This was a local sales yard that would operate a couple of days a year, and it provided the opportunity for local farmers to bring their cattle in and not have to drive hours and hours and hours.

Now that that’s closed—and I remember that it closed partly because they had a huge property tax bill; the sales barn would operate two or three days in a year and they had a huge property tax bill they just couldn’t support. That was kind of the final nail that shut them down, so now I believe the closest sales yard they have is three hours away in New Liskeard.

When you look at the posting here in response to this article, it’s one farmer saying that he wasn’t actually aware of this sales yard being there, but he said he’s no longer farming because it was costing more than the animals were worth driving up to New Liskeard, this three-hour drive. If you don’t have a local place to sell your cattle, you can’t have local beef.

There are things the government could do that would be a lot more substantive than simply proclaiming a Local Food Week. So I would like to see them address those issues, the rules and regulations of abattoirs and making it easier for people to sell their products locally. Also, I would like to make sure that as this new week is created, Bert Johnson’s Ontario Agriculture Week doesn’t get lost, because they are two different things: local food versus the whole agricultural industry.

Mr. Speaker, those are my comments.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Seeing the time on the clock, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1010 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Monte McNaughton: It is a great privilege to introduce Laura Degraw to Queen’s Park today. Laura is from my hometown of Newbury, Ontario, and she’s at Queen’s Park today with the College Student Alliance. Welcome, Laura.

Mr. Rick Bartolucci: I wanted to welcome Laura Degraw as well, a student at Cambrian College in Sudbury. We’re happy that she’s here today, along with Curtis Bell and Mike Bleskie. These are three very, very positive advocates for the College Student Alliance. Good luck, and have a great day today.

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: It’s a great honour to introduce a very special couple from Wingham, Ontario: Dave and Doris Inglis. Welcome.

Mr. Paul Miller: I’d like to introduce my niece’s husband, Kent Hadfield. Kent is involved in banking.

Mr. Monte Kwinter: Page captain Simon Osak’s family is here today, and I’m delighted to introduce them. We’ve got Mitchell, who is the father; Dr. Roberta, who is the mother; Summer, the sister; Bernice, the grandmother; Brenda Cunningham from New Zealand, who is an aunt; Vanessa Torres, who is a friend; and Elyssa Torres, who is a friend who recently arrived from the Philippines. The Osak family.

Hon. Mario Sergio: These students are winners of a citizenship and responsibility award and are visiting the Legislature to celebrate their success. The students are from Shoreham Public School—15 students in grades 5 and 8, with their teachers Ms. Ibrahim and Mr. Dominicos. Welcome to Queen’s Park. They are in the gallery.

Ms. Soo Wong: I’d like to welcome Joyce Zhu, the mother of page captain Kelly Ge. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. John Milloy: I’d like to welcome back Paul Tye, who used to sit at the desk back there when he was working for the government House leader. He’s now living and working in Calgary. Welcome back to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’d like to introduce three talented young women who have started as interns in my office at the Ministry of Economic Development, Trade and Employment. They are Dagny Pawlak, Alexandra McKeen and Alison Duffy. Welcome.

ORAL QUESTIONS

HEALTH CARE

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is to the Premier. Premier, I have several questions for you today regarding Liberal priorities. As critic for health and long-term care, I get letters from Ontarians across the province who are not getting the health care they need.

Janice from Chatham writes me that she was scheduled for a knee replacement in 2012. Due to funding cuts, her surgery was delayed until 2013, and now, because funding for orthopedics has run out altogether, she now won’t have her surgery until 2014.

Forgive me, Premier, but I have trouble understanding your government’s priorities. When it comes to Liberal seats, you have billions of dollars to spend; when it comes to Ontarians, you’re out of money. The NDP may have to solicit advice on how to hold you responsible, but we think that this is just plain wrong.

Premier, on the basis of this, with priorities like this, do you think that you’ve earned the right to govern?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let me talk just a little bit about what our budget would do in the area of health care if it were to pass. It would increase investment in home and community care by an additional 1% annually: $260 million this year and an increase of more than $700 million by 2015-16. That’s the priority. It is our priority that people get the care that they need in their home and in the community.

We’re going to focus on new investments providing care in community to reduce those home care wait times, because not only do we want patients, people, to get care in their homes, we want them to get it in a timely way. We’re going to invest in community health links that will promote collaboration in patient care so that patients have one unified care plan. Those are priorities that I think will make the health care system in Ontario stronger. I think it’s a priority that the member opposite should support.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Well, the Premier talks about spending more money in health care but what I’m hearing from people across the province is that it’s death by a thousand cuts in health care. It’s getting worse. It’s not getting better.

Here’s an excerpt from another letter I’ve received: “My husband is battling a deadly brain tumour, and we as a family have struggled for almost two and a half years....

“A medication approved by Health Canada in March of 2010 for treatment is not provincially funded under the Ontario Drug Benefit program, but is available in the provinces of British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Manitoba.”

Dana from Belle River, Ontario, has difficulty understanding why she has to cash in her life savings in order to provide her husband with the medication he needs. Premier, I also have trouble understanding, when your government clearly has billions on hand to save Liberal seats, why you can’t spend money to save this woman’s husband’s life.

So, Premier, I’ll ask you again: Do you think that your government, which prioritized saving a few seats over saving the lives of Ontarians, has earned the right to govern?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let me just say that it is obviously our highest priority that we provide the best care possible for all the individuals that the member opposite has named and for all Ontarians. That is the focus of the health care system. The reality is that we are in the process of transforming that system. It’s very interesting to me that a member of a party that has said, “Government has to change. Implement the recommendations of the report that Don Drummond wrote.

Change government so that it works better”—the moment we try to do that, when we actually transform the area of the largest expenditure in government, which is health care, and that means change in the delivery of services, that party stands up and says, “Well, we don’t want that kind of change; we don’t want change that’s going to make the health care system more effective and more efficient.” It really is a contradiction in terms. I hope that the member opposite will reconsider and support our changes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mrs. Christine Elliott: The only real change we’re seeing is continued cutbacks in health care and no accountability for the money that’s being spent. Like many Ontarians, I have difficulty understanding how your government can continue to underfund orthopaedic surgery, drag your heels on approving life-saving drugs and cut physiotherapy services for seniors by $44 million, but it’s got $1 billion on hand to cancel gas plants.

Premier, we’re not the NDP; we think these priorities are wrong whether you set up a financial accountability office or not. Do you think it’s right when your government prioritizes the Liberal Party over the life-saving needs of the people of Ontario?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: What I think is not right is to mischaracterize changes that are being made in order to deliver service in a better way, in a more timely way. I’ll just use one example: the physiotherapy issue. We are changing the way physiotherapy will be delivered in the province. That will mean that more seniors will get access to those services because the model that was in place was not working. It does mean that there’s a change, and there is always some disruption when there’s a change, but we will continue to invest in services that will improve health care for people.

No matter how many times the member opposite talks about cuts, the only party in this House that would slash public services, that would cut across the top and change services irrevocably in this province, is the Conservative Party.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Victor Fedeli: My question is for the Premier. Between the member from Nepean–Carleton and me, we asked you 32 times when you knew the tab for Oakville was more than $40 million and the bill for Mississauga was more than $190 million. Sadly, we don’t have that answer. I use those numbers because you and others have repeated them in the Legislature over and over, but neither you nor the former Premier would answer that one burning question: when? Premier, is the reason you won’t tell us when you knew the costs were higher than you reported because that would prove you and your entire cabinet would be held in contempt in this House?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I guess this is the 33rd time that I’m answering this question, Mr. Speaker, and I have said repeatedly that every time I used a number, it was a number that had been given to me, through the Ministry of Energy, from the OPA, and it was the number that I understood to be the reality.

I answered these questions at committee. I have taken responsibility for improving the process going forward in the planning of large energy infrastructure projects. That is what we need to do going forward. I have opened up this process. I wrote to the Auditor General; I asked him to look at the Oakville situation. I worked to broaden the mandate of the committee so that all questions and all documents could be requested. We have worked very hard to make this an open and transparent process so that all the questions of the opposition and the people of Ontario could be answered. The process did not work.

It should have been better, and it is my responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Well, we still don’t know when she knew the numbers were higher. Here’s what former energy minister Chris Bentley had to say about the hundreds of millions already spent in Oakville: “Over the coming days and weeks you will read and hear lots of numbers related to the cost of the plant relocation. The only accurate cost to taxpayers for this relocation is $40 million.” Again on Oakville, your current energy minister said that “it ends up with a net cost of $40 million….” But, Speaker, the energy experts are telling us it’s at least $310 million.

Premier, you knew the number you were using is wrong. You can’t be trusted to govern. Will you support our motion to call a non-confidence vote in the House on your scandal-seized Liberal government?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, the member is aware that the Premier has personally asked the Auditor General, an officer of the Legislature, to look into the matter of the costing for Oakville.

But you know what I find very curious, Mr. Speaker? He’s talking about questions that have not been answered. Let me put a few on the table that we’re still awaiting the Progressive Conservative Party to answer: Why did they oppose the Mississauga gas plant in the last election, why did they campaign so aggressively, and what was their costing? I do not believe those are overly complicated questions, yet when we ask Conservative candidates to come before committee, they refuse. When we ask the Leader of the Opposition, it takes weeks and weeks and weeks for him to show up.

Someone pointed out to me that the Leader of the Opposition seems to be able to find lots of time to go on CP24 and talk about gas plants, but he won’t appear in front of the committee and answer those simple questions. So maybe the member from Nipissing will, in his supplementary—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Listen to what former finance minister Dwight Duncan had to say in the estimates committee about the, at that time, $180-million Mississauga cancellation.

He was asked, “What about any penalties?”

He answered, “not that we’re aware of.”

Question: “So you’re not expecting anything else … over the,” at that time, “$180 million on Mississauga.… any additional claims on penalties?”

Answer: “No. The $180 million should cover all of that.”

Now, of course, his answer grew to $190 million a week later, and we know now from the auditor that at the time they were swearing that in the estimates committee, the auditor told us they had already paid $245 million.

Premier, you know the costs were more than $190 million. I’ll ask you again: Will you support the motion to bring a non-confidence vote on your failed leadership?

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, the honourable member wants some quotes: “The only party that will stop the Sherway power plant is the Ontario PC Party. On October 6, vote Ontario PC,” Mary Anne DeMonte-Whelan.

And you know what was interesting, Mr. Speaker? We asked her to come to committee, she agreed to come to committee and, surprisingly, at the last minute, she cancelled. We asked the Leader of the Opposition to come. I understand now he may be there on the 14th. It’s taken week after week after week. He finds time to go on CP24; he doesn’t find time to go to the committee.

Mr. Speaker, let me tell you about Geoff Janoscik. Here are some of his quotes: “Only Conservative leader Tim Hudak will cancel the Eastern Power gas plant slated to be built on Loreland Ave.” We asked him repeatedly to come to the committee. He told the Clerk to stop calling him. That’s PC transparency—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY

Mr. Michael Prue: My question is to the Premier. New Democrats have been very clear that we needed to see a balanced approach to balancing the budget, and we insisted on seeing real guarantees of results for people.

People are telling us that they doubt the government will keep its promises because the government won’t define how long people are going to have to wait for home care for their loved ones or the government won’t define how long drivers will have to wait to get a break on their auto insurance. They’ve seen decisions made behind closed doors by this government, and they feel like they almost always come out on the losing end.

Does the Premier agree that we can do a better job of showing Ontarians their government can be accountable and transparent?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The leader of the third party yesterday, I guess, put forward an interesting idea, but I really believe that it would be useful for me to be able to have a face-to-face meeting with the leader of the third party—I’ve been trying to get that in place for a number of weeks—and have a conversation about exactly the other issues that she wants to raise.

We have put in place a number of accountability measures since we came into office, and we can go through a list of them: the Broader Public Sector Accountability Act in 2010, which put in new rules and higher accountability standards; it banned the practice of hiring lobbyists and increased accountability for hospitals and LHINs. We put in the Fiscal Transparency and Accountability Act, 2004, which put in a new framework for the conduct of fiscal policy.

So, Mr. Speaker, we’ve got accountability measures in place—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Prue: Ontarians and even the members of this caucus want to trust this government, but after all of the waste in eHealth, in Ornge, the gas plants and the ongoing attempts to hide the cost from Ontarians, no one over there should be surprised that many people are very skeptical.

New Democrats put forward a simple, positive and practical idea that would start to build trust: a financial accountability office that would create some real accountability and transparency. Is this an idea the Premier’s ready to consider?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I have said it’s an interesting idea. I had a number of conversations with the leader of the third party before we introduced the budget.

We talked with hundreds of thousands of people across the province in developing the budget. We went to great lengths to make sure that we wrote a budget that reflected the concerns that we had heard and reflected issues that are of common interest to us all. That’s what the budget document is.

Mr. Speaker, I’m happy to have another conversation with the leader of the third party about another idea. The question is, will there be another idea and another idea and another idea? We’ve gone through a long process, and you know that I am not averse to conversation, but there is a time—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member for Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, second time.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: —for decisions. The time is now to make a decision on getting the budget passed and doing the work of the people of Ontario. That’s what the timing is now.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Michael Prue: Our priority over here should always be the people of this province, and we’re not going to stop listening to what they have to say, whether it’s today or tomorrow or the next day.

Canada’s first federal budget officer told reporters yesterday that a financial accountability office for Ontario makes a lot of sense, and I quote him: “We’re spending taxpayer money. I don’t think anybody should be left in the dark.”

One Ontario resident named Marilyn from North Bay says, “I am not happy with what the Liberals have done with eHealth, the power plants or Ornge, and find the payouts to CEOs to be obscene. There needs to be independent oversight.”

Is the Premier ready to take some prudent, affordable steps to address the concerns of people like Marilyn?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: There are a number of prudent steps in the budget that address concerns of people in the province, people who are worried about their son or daughter not being able to find a job. We have put in place a youth strategy—we would like to put in place a youth strategy, if the budget can pass. People who are concerned about getting home care for their children, municipal leaders who are concerned about having money for infrastructure, for roads and bridges—all of those concerns are reflected in the initiatives that we have put in the budget and that we talked about with the members opposite before we wrote that budget.

I have said that the idea that the leader of the third party has put forward is not a bad idea. It’s an interesting idea. It’s something that we can talk about. But we need to know how long the ideas are going to flow. How many days are we going to hear an idea a day? And then, what is the decision-making process? I’d like to have a face-to-face meeting. I look forward to that opportunity in the near future.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Premier. Yesterday at the public accounts committee, we heard more testimony about public health care dollars being diverted to private businesses and to creative accounting practices at Ornge. Does this Premier admit that there was a serious failure of oversight and transparency at that organization?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We’ve said long ago that it’s clear that the past leadership at Ornge let Ontarians down. It was our government that called in the forensic investigators. The results of the review have now been handed over to the OPP to assist with their investigation. Yesterday’s testimony at committee reinforced the decision that our government made to bring in new leadership and enact measures to increase transparency and accountability. So we absolutely agree that there was a failure of leadership in the Ornge situation.

Patient safety is our number one priority. That’s why we’ve introduced legislation that would increase oversight. That legislation is at committee, and we’d like to see the air ambulance act go ahead. I hope that the party opposite will work with us on that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: In tough times, people want to see their scarce and precious health care dollars invested into front-line services, yet the scandal at Ornge shows very clearly that those public health care dollars were spent on CEO salaries, to build private businesses, and even to purchase ski boats.

The government has insisted that they didn’t know what was happening at Ornge. Does the Premier admit that there’s a serious systemic failure with respect to accountability and transparency at that organization and in this government?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’ve said clearly and our Minister of Health has said clearly that there was a serious issue of oversight at Ornge, that the past leadership failed to deliver what Ontarians needed in terms of service and accountability. That did not work.

That’s why the legislation that we’ve introduced would appoint special investigators or a supervisor when it’s in the public interest to do so, similar to the situation and the process we have in hospitals, would appoint members to Ornge’s board of directors, would prescribe terms of the performance agreement between government and Ornge and put that in regulation, and would provide whistle-blowing protection for staff who have disclosed information to an inspector, investigator or ministry. That’s why we brought the legislation in, because there was a failure of leadership at Ornge.

We have said quite clearly that the past leadership at Ornge did not function in an appropriate way, and that’s why we’ve taken action.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: The problem is that the people of Ontario are very skeptical about a government that struggles to invest in their priorities, but allows at the same time connected insiders to profit and get rich off of public money. The government has insisted that the public interest was protected at Ornge, and it simply was not, just like insiders were billing millions of dollars at eHealth, just like the government spent millions of dollars on cancelling gas plants. People are seeing a problem with this government. They want accountability.

Is the Premier ready to consider that there are some tangible steps that we can take to afford some accountability and some transparency to the people of Ontario and consider the idea of having a financial accountability office?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I think this question goes to the first question that the third party asked, and that is the idea that was put forward by the leader yesterday about a new accountability officer. Mr. Speaker, I’ve said that it’s an idea that we could look at, but in the context of the budget discussion, we need to know how long the list is of new ideas that will be coming forward from the NDP, because we have had a process that has led to the writing of this budget that was very different than the process last year. This year we spent a lot of time listening to what the third party said.

We had the opportunity to interact with more than 600,000 people around the province. I met with folks in communities across the province at 10 jobs and economy round tables, so there was a lot of work that was done in the lead-up, and there is much in the budget that reflects the common ground between us and the third party and, I would suggest, between us and the Conservatives as well.

We need a decision now. I’m happy to have that meeting with the leader of the third party.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, my question is to the Premier. The incompetence and mismanagement of this government goes from bad to worse, and it’s no more evident than in the Ministry of Health. At yesterday’s public accounts committee we heard from Mr. Richard Jackson. He told us that he was hired to head up the minister’s new air ambulance oversight program. When asked what experience he had in either air ambulance or land ambulance, he said “none.” He told us he hired six individuals into that department to help him with his oversight responsibilities. When asked how much experience those six staff members have in air ambulance or land ambulance, he said “none.”

Can the Premier tell us who was responsible for hiring this group of inexperienced people to oversee the most critical oversight responsibilities in the Ministry of Health?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let’s just be clear about exactly what the member opposite is talking about. He’s talking about the air ambulance oversight branch, and there’s another branch called the emergency health services branch. There is plenty of expertise in land and air ambulance operations in that branch, the emergency health services branch.

What the air oversight branch is designed to do is to ensure that transfer payment agencies are transparent, that they’re accountable, that we get value for money when spending taxpayers’ dollars. I think that’s exactly the kind of expertise that the official opposition would want, Mr. Speaker, given what has transpired at Ornge. We need to be very careful, when we talk about the expertise that’s needed, that we understand that there are different branches and that different expertise is needed depending on the task at hand.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, I think what’s important is that the Premier familiarize herself with the Ministry of Health. There are not two branches. The emergency health services branch is headed by the same person that heads the department within the emergency health services branch which is the air ambulance program. It is the same person who has no experience in either land ambulance or air ambulance. The people who now are responsible for oversight of air ambulance have no experience in either land ambulance or air ambulance.

My question back to the Premier is this: When will this Premier recognize and admit that neither the Ministry of Health has competent leadership at either the minister’s level, the deputy minister’s level, the associate deputy minister’s level, or the assistant deputy minister who hired these inexperienced people to have this important, crucial, oversight responsibility?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has made my point: that within the Ministry of Health there’s different expertise that’s necessary. What’s important is that we have the right expertise performing the right function.

I would ask the member opposite, who is so concerned about oversight, as are we, that he work with us to get Bill 11 through committee, to stop stalling that bill. We need that legislation in place. We need that legislation to come back from committee, and the member opposite has a lot of control over whether that happens.

I know that his concern is genuine. I know he wants to make sure that oversight is in place. My hope is that he will work with his colleagues, we’ll get Bill 11 back from committee and we’ll be able to get that legislation in place, because that’s where the accountability measures are.

TRANSIT FUNDING

Mr. Rosario Marchese: My question is to the Premier. The government claims that building high-occupancy toll lanes could raise $250 million a year for transit, yet there are no revenue projections in the budget and the government won’t say where the lanes will be built or where the toll will be. Metrolinx puts the initial revenue from HOTs at $25 million and says the HOTs are not a significant source of revenue for transit. So which is it: $25 million a year or $250 million a year?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: We are indeed, in this budget, extending HOV lanes significantly, according to our long-term plan. This is so that families can get home and get to work, and we can enhance the quality and better use our highways.

There are some interesting studies that have come out of Washington and California, demonstrating the effectiveness of HOT lanes. We’re going to look at this as an evidence-based process to enhance transit.

But our Big Move plan builds 15 remarkably important, critical pieces of transportation infrastructure: LRTs; bus rapid transit. It is the biggest single investment in the history of Ontario in public transit. It is already under way on the Eglinton crosstown line and on half-hour, all-day, two-way service on the Lakeshore line, the biggest single transit improvement for people in the 905. We’re very proud of that. We hope the party opposite will join us in supporting the financing of it.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: The minister keeps on saying “HOV,” but you’re really proceeding with HOT lanes. These are the toll lanes we’re talking about.

The government made similar rosy projections when it rolled out Presto, but we now know that this private sector misadventure has been very costly to taxpayers. Experts say that building new high-occupancy toll lanes costs more than $700,000 per kilometre. That means millions will be spent to build 450 kilometres of these lanes before they generate a dime, and that’s if everything goes perfectly.

Metrolinx says we will need $2 billion a year in new money to pay for transit. Why is the government playing games with another risky, costly and complicated new payment system for the sake of a mere $25 million a year?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, I will speak very slowly so I’m not misunderstood. We are expanding the HOV lanes, and we will be introducing—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order. Thank you.

Finish, please.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Eglinton–Lawrence is not using his timing properly. He’s not even listening while I’m trying to get him to stop.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I know how to do that, if it’s needed.

Carry on.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll be very clear; I’ll speak slowly. We are expanding HOV lanes, and we will be introducing HOT lanes. We will be doing that strategically on an evidence-based process. We have the benefit of about 18 other projects going on in North America that are similar, and we will use that experience.

But Mr. Speaker, my question for my friend in the third party is, how are they going to pay for the commitments that both the Liberals and the New Democrats believe are critical?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, our Premier has been very candid.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: We have a plan—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Time’s up.

New question.

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

Mrs. Laura Albanese: My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. Strengthening the social safety net is a very important issue to many people in Ontario. Those who have depended on social assistance in times of need appreciate the support provided to them and their families, and I’ve heard that first-hand from constituents in my riding of York South–Weston. Others are simply glad to know that the system is there for those who may need it. However, many of us are concerned that social assistance, as it exists now, may not be delivering all of the results that it could be for the most vulnerable.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: The Commission for the Review of Social Assistance in Ontario submitted their report to you at the end of last year. I remember, from earlier questions that you’ve answered, that you’ve been taking the time since then to review the report and to consider what actions the government might take to begin reform. Has the ministry undertaken to act on the suggestions for reform?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I want to thank the member from York South–Weston—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Hard-working, hard-working.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: She is hard-working, in fact—and I want to let her know that I share her concerns. She’s correct; we have been reviewing the recommendations, all 108 from the commission. To do that, we’ve been listening to a number of stakeholders. I think my ministry’s met with 64 different groups, and we’re getting some good feedback. Based on all of that information gathering, we’re investing $400 million over three years to support the increases in OW and ODSP, to also provide single adults with a $14 top-up and allowing social assistance clients to earn—as a work incentive—and keep up to $200.

We’re also looking at assets, special provisions for First Nations and northern communities, as well as simplifying rules.

Jobs, the economy—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Be seated, please.

Supplementary?

Mrs. Laura Albanese: Again, to the minister: It is encouraging that this government plans, again, to be raising social assistance rates for all recipients. This step can make a difference in their lives, as will the increase in the earning exemption. While I recognize some of the items that you mentioned from the Lankin-Sheikh report, I believe that there was a lot more that was recommended.

Mr. Speaker, can the minister speak about what plans he has for some of those other recommendations included in the report?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Back to the member: We’re going to be working in a very close way, and in a collaborative way, with a number of stakeholders to move us forward. There were a number of things in the report that groups said they didn’t want to see us implement, so there are bound to be some trade-offs, and we need to be careful about those.

That having been said, I think it’s encouraging to know that this government is about fairness and is about moving forward. Jobs, the economy and a fair society are, of course, the government’s top priorities, and reforming social assistance is a key part of that priority.

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that we will be working very hard. We’ll be working together, collaboratively, and we would invite all members to join us.

By the way, we can’t do the kinds of things that we want to do for those who need special help unless we get the budget through, so let’s get at it, folks.

WASTE DIVERSION

Mr. Michael Harris: My question is to the Premier. Premier, we’ve heard that the disagreement between you and your environment minister over the Liberal eco tax program has been so bad lately that you’ve personally taken over the file.

After rejecting the PC plan last November to scrap eco taxes and set waste diversion targets, the minister did an about-face last month claiming he was suddenly against eco taxes, but he failed to present a real solution to eliminate them. Instead, he wants to continue to charge eco taxes while keeping them hidden from consumers. You, on the other hand, want eco taxes to remain visible to consumers.

Premier, now that you’re managing the environment portfolio, should Ontarians expect to still have eco taxes on their receipts?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of the Environment.

Hon. James J. Bradley: As we have done for some time, we have identified the real problem. Some of the members who have been here for some length of time who don’t get a chance to ask questions for the Conservative Party anymore—the wily veterans, the great people who have served their people well—don’t ask these. They would fully understand that the real problem is the Conservative bill that was passed in 2002. It allowed for cartels to be set up to be able to charge these particular fees.

We tried to work with your old bill. We’ve worked very hard on that. It’s impossible. That is why we’ll be introducing a new bill to make the kinds of changes people happen to believe are needed.

You should go back to some of your colleagues who recognize how bad that bill was and encourage them to support the new bill that we will be introducing in this House that will in fact address many of the problems that have been there for some period of time.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Attorney General will come to order.

Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Harris: You know what? Those programs were introduced by this government and the true godfather of the eco tax, the taxman himself, Dalton McGuinty.

Premier, we’ve heard your environment minister claim—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’ve reminded members in the past about this and I’ll do so again. We refer to people according to their riding or their title.

Mr. Michael Harris: Premier, we’ve heard your environment minister claim on multiple occasions that the government doesn’t receive any money from eco taxes. Well, he’s totally wrong. The Liberal government has been secretly collecting its share of eco tax revenue for years, at a cost of up to $100 million. According to Ontario Tire Stewardship’s budget, right here, more than $8.5 million of hidden HST charges were embedded in the Liberal’s tire tax in 2011 alone, and that number is only going to rise with the Liberal’s more than 2,000% tire tax hikes that unfairly target Ontario farmers.

Premier, do you continue to support eco taxes because you’re profiting from imposing hidden taxes on Ontarians?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister of the Environment.

Hon. James J. Bradley: The legislation that the Conservatives put in place allowed that to happen. Now, we have implored, and I’m going to seek—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, you’re warned.

Finish.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I’m going to seek the assistance of some members of your caucus who may know this individual, the federal Minister of Finance, and try to get him to change the system, which in fact allows for HST. But the bill has to be changed completely.

What we should know is, the real godfather of eco fees in this province is your leader. Your leader was the then-Minister of Consumer and Business Services, and he allowed eco fees at that time. So when we’re looking for godfathers of eco taxes out there, I think you should speak to your own leader, my friend Mr. Hudak.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Before we move on, I will also remind the Minister of the Environment that we use people’s titles or their riding names.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Durham.

New question.

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Premier. In 2010, this government slashed—everybody knows this—the benefits that our consumers receive in this province when it comes to auto insurance. This slash in the statutory accident benefits resulted in a 70% drop in payouts to residents of the GTHA within one year alone. That’s a 70% drop in claims payouts. Yet over the past three years, these very same residents haven’t seen a penny of savings in the form of lower premiums.

How long does this government think those residents should have to wait before they see a drop in their premiums?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: What we need to do is get this budget passed so we can start getting at the issue about reducing automotive premium rates. I look to the leaders of both sides of the House, so let’s get moving on that. We’ve already identified that the costs of claims are much too high. We’ve taken the steps necessary to try to reduce them. Some of those transfers are starting to take place. We need to give FSCO more teeth so that the regulator can start passing on those savings. We need you to act with us now.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Later on today the Premier is scheduled to speak in Brampton and make some announcements regarding the budget. I want the Premier to be very well aware that the residents of Brampton know that the 15% reduction in auto insurance does not have any timelines whatsoever. This is a serious concern. This means that people in the GTA or in Hamilton could wait two years, three years, five years. No one knows how long it will take.

The benefits were slashed in 2010. That’s three years ago. There has been a 70% reduction in claims payouts to residents of the GTA and Hamilton. How long does this government expect the residents of the GTA and Hamilton to wait before there’s a 15% reduction in auto insurance premiums?

Hon. Charles Sousa: The timeline will be dependent upon how quickly we get this budget passed. The member opposite knows the complexity of the file all too well. We know that we need to take proper measures to help the superintendent get the oversight and the authority required to ensure that the filings of those new rates take place. You know that we need to work with the industry to reduce the cost of claims. You know that in dealing with the industry and the players, they are now receptive to taking those steps as well. But what we need is this legislation to pass so that we can act quickly.

You, yourself, recognize that it takes a gradual approach to get at the cause. You put that in your private member’s bill. We agree. We all want this to happen quickly—the faster the better—so let’s get on with getting this budget passed.

RESEARCH AND INNOVATION

Ms. Dipika Damerla: Today, my question is to the Minister of Research and Innovation. Yesterday, Minister Chiarelli and I visited a company called Temporal Power, in Mississauga. As Ontarians, we can all be really proud of the fact that Temporal Power leads not just in Ontario, not just in Canada, but in the entire world when it comes to storing technology in flywheels.

It is companies like Temporal Power that are powering Ontario to new heights economically and creating new jobs, and I want to know from the Minister of Research and Innovation what we are doing to ensure that Ontario continues to be at the leading edge of technology and innovation.

Hon. Reza Moridi: I want to thank the member from Mississauga East–Cooksville for that question. Supporting research and innovation is a major priority for our government. Since 2003, we have invested $3.6 billion in research and innovation. This investment has helped create 30,000 jobs, 75,000 people were trained, and it also fostered 10,000 industry and academic partnerships.

In our budget of 2013, we reaffirm this government’s commitment to research and innovation. I am proud of our government’s investment of $100 million in the Ontario Brain Institute, which supports cutting-edge research in brain diseases.

We are transforming global challenges into jobs and economic growth, and even furthermore, we are making better health care for Ontarians and also quality of life for people in this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Dipika Damerla: Thank you, Minister, for that update and for reaffirming our government’s commitment to research and innovation.

Research and innovation is great, but it’s only useful if we can commercialize it to improve our economy and help our society. To do this, we need to support our entrepreneurs. So, Minister, can you tell us: What is the government of Ontario doing to help and support entrepreneurs?

Hon. Reza Moridi: Again, I want to thank the member for that question. I am very proud of the leadership role our government has taken in venture capital. With the success of the Ontario Venture Capital Fund, we are partnering with our federal government and also the private sector.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek, come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Don’t start right after I admonish you.

Hon. Reza Moridi: With a $50-million investment, the Ontario Venture Capital Fund II has the potential to reach $300 million. This fund will help to create the right environment for attracting investments to Ontario and also supporting innovation, the creation of jobs and the boosting of our economy.

Our recent budget will deliver a commitment on a commercialization and innovation voucher, and this voucher is going to help small businesses and entrepreneurs to reach research institutions in this province to solve their problems and also increase productivity.

Our government is taking important steps in order to support research and innovation—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

WIND TURBINES

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: My question is for the Premier. On March 5, the Premier received a copy of the package from the municipality of North Perth concerning the industrial wind turbine project that threatens the community. It included a letter from the mayor, the municipal consultation form and my letter of support. The Premier should remember it; it was about an inch thick and I delivered it right to her, right here in the Legislature. I trust she has read it, but it’s now over two months later, and we have had no response. My question to the Premier is simple: What was the very clear decision taken by council, and will she respect their will?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I thank the member for the question. The member will know that the Ontario Power Authority has had standing-offer procurements for renewable energy. Through that process, over the last several years, we’ve created over 31,000 jobs. We have stated quite clearly in our speech from the throne, and the Premier has repeated, that we are looking and working together in a number of ministries to improve how we deal with the siting of renewable energy projects. I am pleased to announce that in the very near future we’ll have some new rules on the siting of renewable energy.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: It sounds like the Premier will not support them. On this issue, the McGuinty-Wynne Liberals are showing no more respect to my constituents than they did in the gas plant scandal. We also remember the throne speech, which suddenly claimed to understand the need for willing hosts on projects like wind turbines.

Well, our councils have spoken. North Perth, West Perth and many more have passed resolutions. They are, and I quote, “not a willing host” for industrial wind turbines, but the Premier continues to allow the wind project in our area to move through the old, broken process. And so I ask her, when will you stop trampling the overwhelming will of our communities and declare a moratorium, and what part of “not a willing host” do you not understand?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I’m looking for some leadership and advice from the other side of the House. We just heard a very significant amount of dialogue with respect to cancelling contracts. The position on the other side is that the government ought not to be unilaterally cancelling contracts, and we now have a request from the other side to unilaterally cancel a contract. I’m looking for advice from the other side in terms of how we deal with the number of contracts that have been signed for which there might be some objections in the community, as there were in Mississauga and as there were in Oakville, and I’m challenging the member: Should we break this contract?

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

Miss Monique Taylor: My question is to the minister responsible for seniors. My office has been flooded by calls and emails from concerned seniors who live in retirement homes and supportive housing for seniors. They have been told that the physiotherapy programs that are keeping them healthy will be discontinued as of August 1. Dorothy Johnston wrote, “They just gave us this program to keep us healthy and in shape, and a couple of months later it’s ripped from beneath us.” Can the minister assure us and Ms. Johnston that her physiotherapy program will continue after August 1?

Hon. Mario Sergio: I thank the member for the question. Let me say that, beginning August 1, 2013, Ontario will provide more than 200,000 additional seniors with one-on-one physiotherapy. We will provide group exercise classes and fall prevention services as well. This will be provided in long-term-care homes and local community centres throughout our province of Ontario. Some 92 physiotherapy clinics are delivering the service today, enhancing access to exercise and fall prevention classes for an additional 68,000 seniors, for a total of 150,000 seniors. This is one way we deliver more service to our seniors.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Miss Monique Taylor: Seniors living in buildings like Mohawk Gardens, a municipally run supposrtive housing building, will have no other options if their in-house physiotherapy is cancelled. The government can talk a good game about wanting seniors to stay active and healthy, yet they’re about to discontinue a hugely successful program.

Barb Wyatt wrote, “If this program is cancelled”—

Interjections.

Miss Monique Taylor: Excuse me; Barb Wyatt is speaking. “I have no other choice; I don’t drive and I can’t”—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Now I’m speaking. Stop the clock.

I’ll stop it this time, but it’s very difficult to have the question put when somebody on the same side is heckling, and it’s hard for me to get to the people who are heckling on this side if somebody on that side is heckling. So please keep it down.

Finish your question, please.

Miss Monique Taylor: Thank you, Speaker.

Barb Wyatt wrote, “If this program is cancelled, I have no other choice; I don’t drive and I can’t afford public transit that frequently.”

What is the minister doing to ensure that seniors in retirement homes can continue to access physiotherapy?

Speaker, it’s the intent of this government to provide more services when they are needed and where they are needed to our seniors, and this is what we’ll be doing.

FIRE SAFETY

Ms. Helena Jaczek: My question is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Last November, I heard the minister speak about expediting the technical consultation on fire safety improvements in residences for seniors, people with disabilities and other vulnerable Ontarians. I was glad to hear this morning that the minister announced the mandatory use of sprinklers in all retirement homes, nursing homes and residences for the disabled. Can the minister please tell us more about what this will mean for all our seniors?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Let me say thank you to the member from Oak Ridges–Markham for this question. Last Monday, I was very pleased to be with the Premier to announce the making of automatic sprinklers mandatory in residences for seniors, people with disabilities and vulnerable citizens—the first province to achieve that in Canada.

These changes to the fire code will include a phase-in of mandatory sprinklers for all existing care residences and retirement homes with more than four occupants over the next five years, annual validation of fire safety plans, enhanced fire inspection and staff training, and fire safety enhancements for all new retirement homes.

In closing, I wanted to congratulate the Minister of Housing, the minister responsible for seniors, the member from Niagara and the member from Hamilton East—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Back to the minister: I’m delighted to hear about our government’s groundbreaking announcement. I know that our government has always been strongly committed to fire safety. We’ve required smoke alarms on every floor of homes, we updated the safety requirements for hotels, and so much more.

Mr. Speaker, can the minister please tell us what kind of input we received from the retirement home sector?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Minister responsible for seniors.

Hon. Mario Sergio: I thank the remarkable member from Oak Ridges–Markham for the questions. Let me say that seniors in retirement homes need to feel safe and secure. By mandating fire sprinklers and enhancing fire safety measures, the Wynne government is demonstrating its commitment to the well-being of our seniors in Ontario.

But that’s not all. The 2013 budget is a document written with seniors in mind: increasing investments in home care and community services, helping seniors with low and moderate incomes in getting their Trillium benefits program on a monthly or on a one-yearly basis, providing 30,000 more house calls to seniors and others with complex conditions.

It is the announcement, but it’s about celebrating the positive results of a collaborative process that puts seniors and other vulnerable Ontarians first.

GOVERNMENT’S RECORD

Mr. Rob Leone: My question is for the Premier. You know, we on this side of the House are also hearing from Ontarians about the budget. I’d like to share one story that we’ve heard. Andrea from Hamilton told us that people were “tired of being ignored by governments that seemed more concerned with themselves, more concerned with their own political skin, with their own political opportunity, with their own political well-being than they were with everyday people.”

Andrea from Hamilton is 100% correct. People are tired of this government. So, Premier, will you call the PC Party want of confidence motion today, so that Andrea from Hamilton can have her wish: a new accountable government for the people of this province?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Halton, come to order. The member from Thornhill, come to order. The member from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex, come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Last call. The member from Halton is warned. The member from Barrie is warned.

Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: I think the member should be aware that in several days from now, according to the standing orders, we will have a vote on the budget motion, which is a confidence vote. We look forward to that vote, and their participation in it.

When the budget bill reaches second reading, for example—just one example—that will be a confidence motion. When it returns here to the House for third reading, that will be another confidence motion—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Just say yes one more time.

Hon. John Milloy: But again I want to go back—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke is warned.

Finish.

Hon. John Milloy: I just want to again go back, and perhaps the honourable member in his supplementary could answer a question that we’ve been asking over here: Why did his party oppose the gas plants in the last election? Why did they campaign so aggressively? When will they put forward their costing and—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Question.

Hon. John Milloy: —when will their candidates appear in front of committee and why has it taken his leader weeks and weeks to agree?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Rob Leone: You know, it’s funny that the government House leader mentions the budget. Let’s see what Andrea from Hamilton has to say about that budget: “We want to see a balanced approach with a budget that’s accountable to people, a budget that tackles people’s concerns about creating jobs and growing our economy while helping them in their daily lives and balancing the books in a balanced way.”

Mr. Speaker, Andrea from Hamilton knows, the Ontario PC Party knows, the people of Ontario know that the budget presented by that government doesn’t reflect the priorities of Ontarians because the priorities of Ontarians are not to waste $600 million on a gas plant scandal to save some Liberal seats.

Premier, the people of Ontario do not have to be held hostage by this dysfunctional budget negotiation sideshow. You can end the charade right now by calling our want of confidence motion. Will you do it today? Let’s get on with fixing what’s wrong with your government.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: The honourable member stands up and talks about the gas plants. Again, we want to know over on this side of the House why Tim from the Fort Erie area—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. I—

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: —you trivialize the people of Ontario. You should be ashamed of yourself. You’re disgusting.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Halton is named.

Mr. Chudleigh was escorted from the chamber.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order, please. Order, please. Be seated, please. Be seated, please. Order.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities, come to order. You are warned. The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, come to order.

Before I finish, as much as everyone might think that’s cute on both sides, I think we should still be respectful of this place. If we think we can skirt rules, that means that you’re not trying to find the highest ground here. My recommendation, clearly, again and again and again, is to use members’ titles or their riding. To try to skirt them is not what I call impressive.

Finish your answer, please.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, I think there’s a lot of people that would like to know why the Leader of the Opposition so aggressively opposed the plants; perhaps because it’s topical, Mr. Speaker.

We’d also like to know why the member from Halton had this to say to the Toronto Sun on October 7, 2010: “It was sad that it took so long for the government to listen to the people of Oakville … so it was nice to see that decision overturned.”

Mr. Speaker, these are not complicated questions. When will we see PC candidates appear in front of the committee? When will they be encouraging their colleagues to be there?

DARLINGTON NUCLEAR

GENERATING STATION

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Minister of Energy. This government has just wasted $600 million on the Mississauga and Oakville gas plants. But apparently you haven’t learned your lesson. The government has now signed $1 billion worth of contracts for refurbishment of the Darlington nuclear power plant, even though, according to the Toronto