Volume XL Wednesday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard} Speaker: Honourable P.]. McNicholas Number 39 18 May 1988

The House met at 3:00p.m. ~1R. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! Statements by Ministers MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker·. MR . SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Development and Tourism. MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, ·the Government of Newfoundland and · Labrador has long recognized that investment in science and technology is essential in order to ensure long-t:E!rm economic prosperity in the Province. In a Province such as Newfoundland, which is highly dependent on resource based industries such as fishing, fore!stry, and mining it is crucial that we keE:1p abreast of netiJ technology.

WE! must also be able to successfully transf~r the new technology to these industries so ·t:hey can 1nain-ta.in their viability in a highly competitive international marketplace. We cannot afford to bE!COrne compJacent and stand by whilr:1 othE!rS captur·e the markets we have worked so hard to secure. Sirnultan(,1ously IAJe must explore the opportunities that these new technologies provide for both new products, processes and services. It is for these reasons that government has placed advancement of science on a p r i or i t y U. s t . thE! the high ThE! 1981 white paper E!ntj _tlE!d 11 T01.1..1ard s a SciencE!

Policy 11 recommended that the Province should strive towards an L2059 May 18, 1988 Uol XL E! x pend i t u r e of 0 . 3 Q% of t he g r o s s provincial product on icientific expenditures by 1985/86. When expenditures on both natural and social sciences are taken into account I ctm pleased to report that we haVE! exceE!ded this goal. For example, the Figures for 1986/87 reveal that the Province spent 0.4-1% of its gross domestic product tn support of this c-lctiv'it.y.

In 1986/87 the Pr·ovincial goVC:1rnment spent over $25 rnJ.llion in both the natural and social s,ciences and it is ost:irnat.E!d that the 1987/88 figurE! wj.:lJ. bE! almost $37.0 million represonting a 4-5% increaSE! above the prE!Vious year, a very significant revelation indeed. The numbers I have just quoted 1/JE! r e t a I< E! n f r· o rn a sur· v c~ y carr J. lc! d out by thE! DepartrnE!nt of Development and Tourism and Statistics Canada to determjne Provincial expenditures on sctentific activities. A strnilar sur'Vl':!Y is carri.c-:1d ou l:. in s·.ix othcH' · provinces.

The survey. which has been carried out on a yearly basis since 1985, provides us with infor·mation l::o comp.lle an his t.oric data base on how much money we are comrnmilting to scientific ac ti vi ties and whe!re Uw rnonE!Y is actually being spent. It also provides a means for reasonably accurate comparisons with the other participating provinces. Not surprising ·ly, the n.ndings of the survey confirm this government 1 s co~nitment to the advancement of science and technology.

Although expenditures on social sciences are important, it is the expenditures on natural sciencE!S that proutde an adequate "indication of comndtrnE!nt to science and technology . Major No .. 39 R2059

departments supporting natural science and activities are Mines, Energy, Rural, Agricul ·tural and Northern Development, Development and rourism, Culture, Recreation and Youth, Fo~estry, and Fisheries. From a national perspective Newfoundland appears to. be above average when compared on the basis of provincial expenditures on science and technology per capita. The latest figures available from the Statistics Canada survey reveal that in 1986/87 the provincial government of Newfoundland and Labrador spent $43 pE:1r · capi t.a which compares favourably with that of British Columbia 1 s $32 and Manitoba 1 s $42.

Surprisingly, it is even higher than the $38 the Ontario provincial government spent in the S<.'\ITIB y~:!ctr, but on t:he othc-:1r hand much less than the $94 spE!nt in Alberta and the $64 per capita spent in Saskatchewan. The money that has been spent over the past years in the Province has produced encouraging results. The numerous research and teaching facilities now in place in the Province which are funded and supported by both levels of government have spurred the ingenuity of our private sector and the R & D community.

This has led to the development of unique products and services which are becoming internationally renowned. For examplE!, one local company has developed a hand-held spectrocolorimeter, known as colormet, f·or deter·min.ing the quality grades in food products, while another company has developed an expendable current profiling system known as hydroball that measures ocean current speed and direction and water temperatures.

The lab:!St in L2060 May 18, 198 8 Vol XL maching vision technology has successfully been incorporated by a Newfoundland company into an automated system capable of sorting fish by species as well as by weight. On the service s tde, c~ local gr·oup are providing l:hE! latest in microprocessor and programmable control technology for industriaJ. customers, whjJ.e another company is providing a complete, long range, wireless data- commun:ications- networ·k. These are but a fE!W of thE! rnc~ny exciting things which are happening in this Province.

You will also recalJ. that the 1981 White Paper recommended the formation of a provinctal sc:i E!nce council lo coordinate and advise government on mattE!rs r·eJ.atE!d l::o science and sciE!nc<,1 pol:icy. I <;un pleased to report that we have rE!CE:1nt.ly t7 <H'med thE! N~:!IAJfoundland and Labrador Science and Technology Advisory Council. This council, Mr. Speaker, is holding its f:irst, its inaugur·al meeting in St. John 1 s today. We are pleased with t :his mil~~stone achievement and it further high 1 ig ht s government 1 s c ornrni tme nt to the advancement of scienCE! :ln this Province.

The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador considers science and technology a high priority item for future economic prospertty. While ther·r::1 is much l::o be done, I beJ.ieve we have a good framE!WOI"k established and ·with continued commitment we should be able to reap the economic and social benefits associated with t n v o s tme:Hl t J. n this n (,11AJ F r· on t. :i ~=! r . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE:1ar! MR. KELLAND: No. 39 R2060

Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The han. the member for Naskaupi . MR. KELLAND: I thank LhE! minis U!r For· the copy of the statement. It is coinc.icll':~ntal., of course, IAdth the inaugral meeting of the Advisory Council, 1.1..1hich I l:hink ·is important. As I have said in response to many of the other stateiTIE!nts by ti1E! minister, when l:. h f.':) r e a r e i n i. t. "i a l.: i v (:) s m n d pl"ogramrnes by governrnE!n ·t which we as Lhe official Opposition feel are beneficial, we certainly are in support of governrnent 1 s actions. I think this is exemplified here.

There are some good initiatives being taken. fhere an~ some good dollars being Sf.>E!ni:. But within the whole contE!Xt of all of that, Mr. Speaker, I find a little bit of a paradox in that there is a dedication to expending money on science and technology and that sort of developmE!nt, buL, at the same time, we continue to see an out-migration of our younger . pl':~ople from the Province.

I !Mould think tha ·t. our younge1M people compare to any anywhere elscc! :in Cane1di:'l, Rnd I u.1ould l.ike to see a more dedicated effort tot•Jt'lrds thr:~se:1 young people in bringing them into the fieJ.ds of sci.ence and U-!!chnology so thaL we can draw on the rE! sources of au r OIAJn peoplr:1 in or·dE:~r l:o progr·ess a lot fur·thE!r. BE!yond that, the basic ini ·tiative of the rrr:in:ister 1 s statement is one thc1t. we can support and we commend him for it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hE!ar·! MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Minister of L2061 May 18, 19 8 8 Vol XL Development and Tourism . MR. BARRETT: Mr·.

SpeakE!r, :i.n ris] .ng to prE!SE!nt another statement, if I rnighl: be just given leave for a second just to r'E!Spond to Lhe hon. rnr:~rnbE!r oppositE!. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No, no! MR. BARRETT: You arE! not: going t.o do that? I was going to be complimentary. Mr·. Sp1':1ai<E!r, the rnov<~~ J.ast IAH:!E!I< by the French authorities to arrest the Ne!Aifoundland fishing VE!Ssel Maritimer, was, as this hon . House so clearly indicated, a totally unacceptable act.

Government moved quJ.ck1y and decisively to express it s a b h o r r a n c t~ of t h '.i s k :i. n d o f t a c l: . .i c and have communJcated extensively with the federal government to injtiate broader based actions from a Canadian perspective . In the mE!antilTIE!, governrnE!nt announCE!d its intention to cancel all existing and plannE!d dealings wH:h the French . As <:\ r·esult, I advised a company, Bouygues Offshore Cani:'lda, Newfoundland Design Associates and Pennecon L .i rn :i 1:.

E! d l: 0 s U S p E! 11 d C\ 11. i:'l C t:. i V i l:. y related to the research project d <::~a 1 i. n q IAI ·i t h L h <:1 cl <;! v e 1 o p m (;! n t: of a concrete floating production system for oFFshore Newfoundland pending further review. I must now report to the House that this review has been completed and our conclusion J.s that to uphold that suspension would be harmful to Newfoundland companies and NewfoundJ.and institutions without exerting any rn t~ a s u r a b 1 e i n f l u e n c E! o n t . h e F r· e n c h GovernrnE!nt.. It I.LJi11 aJso depriVE! Newfoundland interests of access No. 39 R2061

to the leading edge, world class technology. The contract at 'isS Lie here is L.IJith a Canadian joint venture- albccdt one of t:I'Ho1 thrE:1e partners is wholly owned by a French company. All oF the funding pr·ov'idE!d, Mr. SpE!akE!r, from the offshore development fund, all of it, is targeted for Canadian interests with lhe greatest share of those Canadian interests in Newfoundland. SOME IWN. MEMBI"::RS: I-IE:1ar, hear! MR.

BARRETT: It 'is therefore Government 1 s decision to continue v.rllh the original contractual arrangement involving Bouygues Offshore Canada, with Newfoundland Design Associates, and PE!nnecon LirnilE!d ·­ the Nekton Joint Venture Group. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. WELLS: ·Mr-.- Speak E!r, 'it is a complete about fc:lce of thE:1 pos'lt'.ion tc\kon by the government on May 6. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hc,1ar, hE!i:-lr! MR. TULK: And indeed by the House . MR.

WELLS: Does this now mean tha l t~w cannot:. again insist that the Government of Canada use its trade levers L.llith FranCE! in ensuring that the interest of our fishermen is protected? L2062 May 18, 19 8 8 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. no. MR. WELLS : It most certainly does. Otherwisr:', tJJe hypocrii:E!S. v.Ji11 I:H~ btnandC"!d as SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear·! MR. TULK : ·Right -on . YE:1s, it does. Mf~. WELLS: We all sat in this House last lAleC:1k, Min . SpC:1c\I<C;!r, AN HON . MEMBER: Be carE!ful. MR. WELLS: Mr. Speakt1r, I lAJould J.'ib;! t'irnE! to b e h E! a r d .

T h e rn i n i s t E! r h a cl t :i. rn E' and he was J.istened to. AN HON. MEMBER : Name your salary. Do no ·t get sooky . MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! MR. WELLS : We all sat in this House last lAJeek, Mr. Speai<E~r·, and l'.ogether passed a rE!Solution exprE!SSi.ng ou1n COnC(~rn Hnd 1:\Sk.i.ng t:hf~ GOUE!Y'nmE!I'1t of Canada to take steps that would help Newfoundland Fisherm e n. At the sarne tirnE:1, thanks to this sidE! of thE! liouse, L~lE! add("!d to the resolution a portion that would r~~quirt1 \.:11(,1 golJCc!Y'rliTI(;!nt: of this Provi.nce to take thE! sarne k:i.nd of action.

And thc,1 rnin:is LE!r s lood in the House and announced that that action was bei.ng taken. As of now, if rnE!rnbE!rS on thE! oppos:it:E! s :1 cl E! o F t h e H o u s e h a v e <HI y principle, they will immediately seek to rescind that resolution that they so hypocritically No. 39 R2062

beached by this announcement. SOMF.: IWN. MEMBERS: Hear! I-I ear! MR. TULK: Right on. You are against Newfoundland fishermen. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! pJ.ease! Order, please! MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Menihek . MR. FENWICK : Mr.

Speaker, what has obviously happ~'!l'lE!d her·E:~ is l:.haL thE:~ government realizes that they movc:!d a little bit has L.ily on Mi.-\Y 6 and, as a result of that, realized t:hr.~t i.f they tverf:'! to cancel the contract they would end up wiLh massive damages fr·om the consortium, which would have sued the tail of the government then from here ~o Tuesday and back aga'.in. Clearly, on those grounds it was inadvisable for the government to even make that commitment at the start. But having said thclt, Mr.

Speaker, it does show that obviously the businE!S s in ·t.erests of thE! partners there ar·e much more->. important to this government than are the Maritimer or the fishermen of the South coast. It is clear, when it came Lo a decision on w ~li c h g roup to s up p or· t , that thE! f:ishE:H'ITIE:~n be damnc;!d, il: '.is about time when we went and supported OLtr pRrtnc,~r·s IAJho 1:·1rr;! in t.:h:i.s consortium, and who obviously ar·e thE:~ PE:~opl.E:~ who supporl:: Lhc;! PC L206 3· May 18, 1988 Vol XL Party, and probably the Liberal Party l'\S t.uel1, if the truth t.uc:.~re known on it.

So, I think we have a trUE! indication of where the best interests of this government lie as <:·1 result of this dc;!c:ision, i.~nd the cancellation of this decision. MR. SPEAKER: Before calJ.J.ng for Oral Questions I would like to welcome to the gaJ.lery Ms JessiE! Bird, Mayor of Cartwright and President of the CornbinE!d Councils of Labrador·, and also Mrs. Marion Par·dy, PresoidE'!I1t of the Eastshore Development Association and the Manager of Cartwright Fish Plant. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE:H'Ir, hear·! Ml~.

SPEAI<ER : I would also li.ke to welccnTJE:! forty ·S Lx LE!Vel IT. and lE:HJE!l III students with their three tea c he r s , i:. he P r· ·i. n c i p a 1, f·l u b C:! r t McGrath, Melvin Critch and Mrs. Barbaina King fr·om Fat.Lrna High School in St. Bride 1 s. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : I would also like to weJ.cornE! fifty-eight Level I and Level. 11 students with their three teachers, Anne Walsh, Majella Aylward and John Batterton from St. Mark 1 s Central High Schoo1 in King 1 s Cove, Bonavista Bay. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hc:.~ar! Oral Questions .e1_8_. WE L l,.§ : No. 39 R2063

i.,r . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the of Lhe Opposttion . MR. WELLS : Mr . Speaker, yesterday the Minister· of Fincll'lCe (Mr . Windsor) !Alas intE!rviewed on te!levision, and amongst other things he said or was reported to have sa.td, and I saw the t.elE!Visi .on progra111me, t.\k\S that he saw a whole neJJ.J window of opportuni.l::y op~~ ning up as f<:\1" dS Hydro Quebec was concerned and the hydro pol::enti~l i.n Labrador.

Would t.he:~ minister tndicr.lte dcH~s that mean that Hydro Quebec has indicctted they c:lre prE:~pr.u"c:~d l::o renegotiate the Upper Churchill contract, or is he speculal::ing that as a rE!SUJ.t of the changE! of government, from PQ to Liberal, they will probably be more receptive to discussions? It is important that the people of Newfoundland have a better · handle on what the minister means by 1 a whole new window of opportunity. 1 MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Finance . MR. WINDSOR: What I m E!an, Mr .

Speaker, is that this government is doing everything possible to try to overl::ur·n th(:~ g:iiHH'li.AJay of Newfoundland 1 s resources of thE! for'mE!r LibE~rHl reg1.Jn(:1. Thct1.: :is !JJhat 'it mE!i.'HlS. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WINDSOR: ThE! han. gE!ntle!Tnan opposite wJ.1l r'E!memb(:H' :i.t I.UE!l.l, Mr·. SpE~akE!r, because I think he was a member of Cabinet lAJhen it went through, so he should bE! ashamed to stand in L2064 May 18, 1988 Vol XL this House and talk about it . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WINDSOR: I realize, Mr.

Speakc:!r, thHt. ii~ pains them te!rribly to thj nl< thr.l'l: this gouernmE!I1t rnay bE! do'ing anything positive, but I can assur·e l::hl':~rn IAJe r.\r'e go'ing to do it. in spite of the!ir opposiU .on OUE!r t hc:1 r·-e . Wh~l we are trying to do, Mr . SpE!aker, is start l'lE!gotiat:ions.

I ±ndicHted quiLe cle~rly in television interviews yesterday th~L I held Rn initial meeting with the Minister of Energy in Quebec on Monday Rfternoon of this week, that I I.Alould ant :icipatE! further meetings over l:he I1 E!Xt number of weeks and that I se e sorne opt.:'irnism that th"·r·e '.'i.s an opportunity now to negotiate a cornplE:~te package on Labrador development, not just a renegotiation of the disgraceful contract han . gentlc:!rnen signed a number of years ago, but also including further resource developments in Labrador.

And 1.ue will do it if it is at all possible regardless of objections from opposite. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: Mr. S~)(:~aker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. Barbe . MR. FUREY: Mr . Spei.'lke:~r. I hc.'\Vl':~ a CJUE!St'ion for the hon. the Min:i.ster of ForE!Str·y (Mr. AyllAicH'd). Some 85,000 hectc:.n·es oF Western Newfoundland .... . No. 39 for·est in lAri]l bE! R2064-

sprayed with fenitrothion this year, Mr. Speaker. FenitJnothion being a nE! rvE.~ poison, I tJJould 1 ike to ask could l:hc:! Mi.ni.ste:~r of Forestry tell the House why we are not:. using Bl.: :in lighl: of thE! fact that Bt is used in other jurisdictions? Bl is now registered with Agriculture Canada. Bt, Mr. Speaker·, in our OlAJn expr:~riments in NE!Wfoundland last year provided excellent rE!SUlts, according to the CFS. And, Mr. Speaker, Bt killed t.hr:1 hemlock looper and protected the surrounding foliage. In view of all of these facts, Mr.

Speaker, I ask can thE! minister t e 11 u s now , t e 11 t he p eo p l e of Newfoundland now, why we are not using Bt 100 pE.~rcent. of Lhe Wi.~Y :in our spraying programme this year? MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Forest Re:1sourcE!S. MR. R. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I guess for at J.ee1st l.:he seventh time, maybe the tenth time, I wilJ. explain lo hon. members opposite the reason for the s pray pro g r a mrrH:1 in this Province that has continued for the past several ye:1ars. First of all, Mr.

SpeakE:1r, befor·e April 28 of this year, two or thrE!e weeks ago, we had a choicc,1 of one registered substance in Canada to fight the hemlock looper. Bt has beE!n re!gistE!red to fight thE! budt..uor·m for· qu'.'i. te some ye!ars, it had bE!en USE!d in othe!r pro v :inc e s , but thE! rE! IAIE!rr:! no B t formulas registered that could control the sprE:~ftd of· thE! hernlocl< looper in any province, Mr. Speaker.

This government, ~long wtth the Canadian Forest Service, L2065 May 18, 198H lJol XL spe!nt considerable time and monE!Y last yectr and the year before experimenting with Bt formulas to ·= ti"Y to d~~v0l.op i'l fonnulRl:.ion that. would be effective for the control of· l~hc,~ he1nlock loop(:~r· in this Province. Mr.

Speaker, last YE!ar, undE!r well-controlled circumstances, on a spray of between 4,000 and 5,000 hectares under sci&ntifically-controlled cir·cumstances, we d:id find a V(!!ry good formulation of Bt cc:d.lE•d Diapel 176 - there is another but I forget the namE! of it, and wo will be using both this year that was very successful in controlling lhe hemlock looper under scienttfic, well-controlled circumstt.Hlces. Mr.

Speaker·, thi.s year· go fr·om somE! /1.,000 hE!Ctares, where we r·esl.tl Ls, Lo :inc1"ec.~se to between 24,000 hc,~ctr.~ros, an per cent, s-Lgn:lfJcc:tnt. i.ncrc~as(~ which lAJE! pJan to Lo 5,000 found good OUI" Bt usr:•cl and 28,000 of SOITit':1 tWO is VE!ry Mr.

Speaker, this year we would i.dl LLk~cJ to seE:~ · · Uw D(~partnwnt of Forestry, the industry, and thE! p(~opl.e IAJho dep(~nd on the forest industry for their liveJ.i.hood our successful experimental programme of Jast year transla·I':E·d inl:o a SUCCE!SSft.tl COifll'nE!rC:ial spr•ay pro g r a rnrn E! t hi s y E! a r , and that J. s vJhal:. tvt':1 are trying to do by i n c r e a s i n g o u r B t s p n:'l y p 1n o g r a rnrn e to some 2 5, 000 t~o 2 '7, 000 1·1 c:..H; ti:-H' (!! s this year. MR. FUREY: A supplementary, Mr·. SpeakE.~r. MR. SPEAKER: A--s uppl-einE!ntary I thE! hon. thE! 1rH~inb(H' for S l. BiH'bE~.

No . 3 9 R2065

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, the minister IJ.Jill knuw that on Monday lhe Pesticide Aduisor·y Board, which is a brt~nch of the Department of Environment, met to approve the spray programme. Will the minister confirm that the Pesticide Advisory Board l~ecommended iHl :incr·~~ase of up to 50 per cent use of Bt for the total spray programme this year? If, in fact, that is true, that the Pesticide Advisory Board, which is a branch of his own gouernmenl 1 s Depctrtmenl of Fnvironrnent, has recornmendE!d this, why did thc,1 mi.nisi:(!!l" i.gnorE! the:·' t-. vr:.1ry sensiblr:~ recommendation? Ml~.

STMMS : It is not a branch of E n v i. r· o n me n t . T h c.d: .i s w r· o n g . Ml~ . FUREY : w~~ll it is appoinle!d Departm('lnt oF Env:ir·onment . the same thing . MR. SIMMS: It is not. MR. FUREY: by thE~ It t s It has experts from the entire bureaucracy, from Health and Fisher·ies, from all across the bureaucracy. MR . SPEAKER : Order, please! MR. FUREY: Will lhE! IJ.JhethE!r Cou n c i. l. · mi.ni.ster U!ll. Lh".i.s HOUSE! the Pesticide Advisory SOME l-ION. MEMBEI~S: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: OrdE:H··, please! MR. FUI~EY: L2066 May 18, 1988 UoJ. XL I am sorry, Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: I f:ind it impossible to fo1low thE! question and answer if han. ministers on my left are interrupting IAJhE!n a p~:,r·son j s posing ~ question. I think his question was a l j_ t tlE! bt t d l"clgg E!d out, bul:. in the c:ircurnstanc~:!s I think it is understandable. The hon. the member for St. Barbe . SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE:~r:~r, h~~c'r! MR. FUREY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Cc'\n l·.: h(!! rni.ni .s t:c:!l" conf.i . r·1n IAJh(:~th,?.r' or· not the PesticidE!

Advisor·y Sor:~r·d h<:\S r·(~comrnE!I'ld(!ld l":.o h:Lm l:hts week that Bt spraying in LhJs Provi.ncr:~ be,~ incr-eas,::•d t:o up to 1)0 pE!r CE~nt Of thE:~ totaJ SPI"C\1) pr'og rarrnm~? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the M:i.nister of For'E!St ResourCE!S. MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, it is realJ.y :Lr·ontc houJ the han. rnernber·s oppositE! a1ne wiJ.ling to play Russian roulette with the thousands and thousands of jobs that depend on our forest i.ndustry. OnE! thing t.h <:·1t th~?.Y do not want to remernbE~r is that the s tudoi.c::1 s IAie rHd last y ~~<H' on songbird Elffects statE!d ti·H:!rE!

IJ.J('!I"E! n o tJ i. s i. b J. e ('! f f E! c t s o n L h c~ songbirds, no notable changes in any activities of the songbirds covered in our study. Mr. Speaker, I arn aiAJare that t.:he P ~~ s L:-i. c :i <h~ A d td !> o J" y B o a r' d , IAJ h J c h :L s not a br·anch of thE! DE!part:rnent of Env · i.r·onlnE:~nt :i.t :i.s dn aclv-:i.sory board; as thE! namE! irnpl:lE!S it :is Ml advisory bo,u·d did ITIE!(o!t. No. 39 R2066

yester·day. I do not their re comrne nd a ti on s today, Mr. Spl,~akc,~r. hcwe any of on my desk MR. FUI~EY : A final suppleniE!ntary . Ml~. SPEAKER : A finaJ. supplerrH:Hitatny . MR. FUREY: So what the minister is bi:lsicr.~l.ly to t.he House C\nd of Newfoundland is that declared chemical warfclre living animals in the spray ~OME HON. MEMBERS: Question! Question! MR. SPEAKER : Or·der, please! MR. FUREY: saying to Rll he has on all zone -- My--ql. tl'::~st'ion, Mr.

Sp~~aker, J. s simply this: The minister· has a choice; he can either spray chemical poison on the for·ests or he can spr'i.'IY c!l nRturi.'ll. substi.'lnce called Bt. Now, will he tell this liouse, Mr. Sp~~i.'lkc-:lr, thi.'\'1: he IAiiJ.l. do thE:~ honorable thing, the safE! thing, the effective thing and spray Bt? Because NetJJfoundlanders and Lclbradorians are demanding safety firs 1:. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hl::lar, hear! MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Forest Resources. MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr.

Speaker, myself, this government, the Department of Forestry and the Canadian Forest Service are doing the honorable thing, by continuing our mandate to protect the forests of this Province so that we will have a pl.ijce for wildlife, for L2067 May 18, 1988 Vol XL. recreational activities, for forest activities and for every other activity that we have in the outdoors of Newfoundland, Mr. Sp c-:'! C.~kotn. MR. KELLAND : Mr·. Speai<E!r . MR. SPE_8KER: The han . the~ m~wtb~: !r for Nas kaupi. MR. -KELLAND: In the absence of thE!

PrE!miE!Y' , I direct my question to the Minister Responsible for Agriculture, t he Ministl'::~r of Rural, Agr·-.Lcultur·al and Northern DeveloprnE!n-t, and ask h :i rn to ex p 1. a in the f o 11 OlAii n g : In view of the fact that the pr·ojc,~ctions for thE! success of t.hc• Sprung project: u.Jas arriVE!d at using a basC:~ pr· :icC"! of $1.08 , can hE! tE!l1 the HouSE! hot."J t.hE!SE! sarn~:· cucumbers can be sold in Nova Scotia for fifty - ninE! CE!nts E!iHh, "i. n t)i~~lAJ of th<.~ fact t.hal:. it. cosl:_s about tu.Jelve CE!nts a pound to gE•t them there in the first place? MR. BARRETT: It is all marketed .

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! Mf~ . SPEAKER: Order·, pl.E!aSE:~! ThE! hon. the Agri. cul tur·al Development. MR. TOBIN: Minister of Rural, and Northern What is your Sr.llr.lry mor· e than thE! Leader of the Opposition's in Nova Scotia? Ml~. SPEAKER : Order, pleaSE!! MR . FUREY: Name hirn! No. 39 R2067

MR. SPEAKF.R: I mAntioned some days ago there tAJE!rC-?. sorn~~ me:Hnbers on my left who continually interrupt, particularly at Question Time. There are two of them doing it today - three of thern,in fact so I will call it to their attention by name if they continue to do so. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Agr·icul tural DE! v C.;! 1 o prn~;, n L . MR. POWER: Minisb:~r and of r~ur·al, Northe,rn Min.

Speaker·, we rr:~ceiVE!d what !Alas cons :i. d Co! r· ~~ d E~ >< p <;! r t i:~ d lJ"i. c e f I" o 1n ruernben; opfJOSib ;, that the facility Jn Calgary co1.1ld no 1: be molH~d Lo Newfoundland. We received expert aclv"Lce fr·om I'IIE~nlber·~; opposi.t .'"' th;:1t cucumbers could not be grown in Newfoundland. We received expert advice from members opposite saying cucumbers could not possibly grow as fast as we said they could grmv. Now, we i:·1re going to rece!ive expert advj ce as to how to enter the marketplace in Nova Scotia. Mr.

Speaker, the expert advice that members opposite have given, in at least four of those five instances, proved to be totally and absolutE,ly IAJrong, and inaccurate. As any person who was ever involved in rnarket··i.ng knows, if yol.l ar·e going to get into a mar·ketpldce for the lJOry fir·s t tirue you he1ve to do things likE! offer specials, give discount pi"ices, and tJJE! c~re going to be in Lhal: Noua Scol :: i.a mat"l<c,1f· .. rhe cot"ollai"Y to -that: ar·gument the ITI E~ In b (;! In II S 0 S t: h d t IAl (;!

C <:·1 1'1 l'l 0 1.: j:Joss :ibly rnai<E! money if we do not got $1.09 for avery single cucumber, is fundamentally, L2068 May 18, 1988 Vol XL mar!<et-wi.se, veiny stupi .d. ~~hat. we are saying is that we must average out at a pr·ice :i.n excess of $1.00 or $1.09. Everybody who happens to purchase or consume a vegetable product in North America knows that prices are not l:l'w sa1nf.:~ consistentJy throughout the year: Winter pricE!& arc,~ al1~o.1ays much higher when things are not on the rna r· I< e t or not i:l s a v a :ll a b 1 t:.~ on i: he market.

Every person also knows in the case of retailing, there are many retailing principlE!S ancl philosophies with the supermarket chair1s -and the srnaJ J r·otairers, IAlh 8 r t~ by y 0 U In f.·' y 9 0 d 01All1 l:: i'Ho! S t r E! E! t and find that orangE!S ar'E! on fo1 n $1.00 d pound ·.tn onE' pJ.ace and $1.50 someplace elSE!. WE:~ 11aVE! no :inl:onl·i.on, Mr·. 3pc;,i:'lk~;,r·, of e~!C'r trying to control the rnar'k E:~ tpJi.'l.CE~ l: 0 ·I: h 0 d E! g I" (~ E~ [: h d '1.: IAI (;! S (.;! t [:: h 0 price for rotailers. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H e <71 r , h ~HH' ! MR. KELLAND: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon . the member for · Naskaupi . MR. KELLAND: I ask thE! ministe'r to explain thE! folloudng, -lhe,n: In uJetJJ of t:he fact that the government has already invested $22 million of our taxpayers• money- SOME HON. MEMBER~: Not true! Not true! MR. SPEAK~R: Order, ple,aSE!! MR. KELLAND: :-·-i:Jfiy-lsl t t h 1:1 1·. t h c,, N (~ tJJf o u n d 1 r:~ n d and Lab 1nad or' tax pay E! r s cH' E! no1~o.1 bE:~ i.ng fot"C<o!d t:o subs'.idizr:~ cucumbers so that Nova Scotians No. 39 R206.8

can buy them at less than what we have to pay here,~ :i.n ProvinCE!? half this SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAI<ER : TI'H~! h o n . L he M i n i s t e r Ar-i.c1~ltural 1:lnd Dr:wel.opment. MR. POWER: of Rural, No in LhE~I"rl ·Mr. Spr:~aker·, I know you cannot say the wor·d 1 lir:~ • in Uw House of Assembly, but I know you can say l:.he I.~Jor·d • st.unnc~!d •, you c<.-1.n say the word 1 dense•, or 1 thickheadE!d. 1 We havr:~ tabled in this House every single document about Sprung.

If somebody can add up the figures to $22 mil.lion, then I wish someday somebody opposite would actually take the figures and show us how you get that $22 million. I will table those figur·es again, Mr. Spr:~aker, if somE!body over there is too dense to understand somr:~ simple figures. As it relates to the N e wf o u n d l. a n d p r'i. c e of c u c u m b E~ r s and the Nova Scotia price of cucumbr:~rs, Mr. Spei:lb~r. t:o be in that Nova Scotia mainland markE! ·tpl.<::tce. It. is ;:-\i.·. <:1 ti.rne of t.hE~ yec~r 1/Jhen a lot of local CI~CLJJrlbEH'S 'i.n lhi'lt pctri: Of l: he t/JOI"]d come on s'l:re:~am.

WE! intend to gel i. n Lo t.l·w rncH' k c,~ tp l.Hc E~. As cucumbetns become more available:~ in Newfoundlctnd during the Sprlng clnd o;.u·ly Summer, then you wJll find that thE~ pr:i.co of cucumbc"!rs t:hi:l'L come f1norn the Sp1nung faci1ity in Newfoundland will certain1y drop off, as they do in most other placr:~s dur·ing l:he SurnmE!r' cHld ear·l.y Fall months . MR. KELLAND : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: L2069 May 18, 1988 Vol XL A final supplementary, the member for Naskaupi. MR. KELLAND: thE! han .

In r·esponse,~ t:o l::hE:~ minisbH' 1 S request, I now table the ciOCIIHIOI'll'. : r'li:.:iOI'l I.AJhi.ch ShOi.~JS i'1 tot:.c:~l inuost.ment of $22,175,000 . SOME liON. MEMBERS: H-ear, hear! --- Mf~. I<ELLAND: -I rlaS k i n g-- rn y f i n a 1 s up p lE! rn E! n tar y , Mr . ~)pE~akc;!r, I l:r.lbl.E~ <.·\ copy o·f an ad from The Mail-Star yesterday sho!JJ'i.ng Spr·ung cucutnbei" S :i.n Nova Scotia at fifty-nine cents. MR. SPEAKER : Order, plt:~ase! MR. I<ELLAND: ---·----I present a Sprung cucumber bought in Newfound1and today for $1. 18. MR. SPEAKER : Orde!r, pleaSE!!

The han. member has not as ked a final suppl.etne,nltatny. The hon. lhe-?. mc,nnbfH' for· st. John • s East. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H E:H-1. r , l·w c:~ r ! MR. LONG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. SpE!ake!r, I IAJould J.ikE! to fo 1l.o1AJ up on 1-: he~ .iss u f:! that: has already been raised with regard to the application of Fenitrothion Vl'::~rsus Bt this SurnrnE!r. I fol1oiJ.JE!d quite closely what the mini s ter had to say with rE!fE!rE!nce to thE! recommendations of the PesticJde Advisor·y Board. I would like to ask thE! Min:i.ster of For'E:!st Re,~sour'cl~S :is he,~ tell:ing No. 39 R2069

the House that 1':11c~ de:)ci.si.on thai: was announced yesterday at f u u r· -- t o n , a c c o I" d :i n g 1-. o t h e t ·i m ~1 o 1'1 the pi"C,)SS statE!mEHll, was one that was mad~~ wi.l.:hout any referencH to any recommendations that might h i:•W c,1 c o rn c:- f r· o rn t. h e P ~) s t i c :i. c:l (:) Advisory Board? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Forest Resources. MR. R. AYLWARD: . --Mr.

Speaker, the de!(:ision that was announced yesterday on the spray programmE! u.Jas a dE!Cision made frorn about a year's planning, looking at last year's spray programme, a n d 1.~1 h a L ·i. s n e c.;, d c;! d ·t n 1:: h ~~ Pro v :l n c (:1 this year, Mr. Speaker. MR. LONG : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAJ<Ff~: A supplernE:Hltar·y, thE! hon . the member for St. John's East. MR. LONG: Min.

Speaker, seeing that the Min:ls I·:E!r fat" For•c,1s 1: Rt-:)SOt.tr•r.:es d:id not answer my question, I would like to clsk the Minister responsiblE! for the protection of the EnvironrnE!nt, who i.s also l:he Minister responsible for the Pestici.de Advisory Board, could he tell the HoUSE! if, indeed, thE! Forestry Department announced its decision on this year's spray p r o g r a mm E! t.~o.Ji 1: h o u t h a v "i n g r e c (,) i v e d any recommendations from the Pestid.de Adv"i.sor·y Bo<H'd, fol" which UtE! Minister of EnvironmE!nt i.s r.:.~sponsible? Mf~ .

SPEAKER: The hon. the Mi.nistE!r of Environment and Lands. Mf~. RUS~3ELL : Mr·. Speake1n, I aru del:ighted that L2070 May 18, 1.9B8 lJol. XL thc-:1 hon. member for· ~Jt:. John's East has posed that question, bc-?.Ct:\1.1:30 J have been si.Lting ht~r'""' listening with great interest to the info r· rna t ton , or l. a c k the I" eo f , that thE! han. mEHnber for St. BcU"bE! lAJC\S posing. I do not know where t .hE! Offic:i .al Opposition are getting thetr so-called information, Mr. Speaker•. The-:!

Pt:!S 'I·:icidE!S AdvisOI"Y Board, a board l.~o.Jhich makes recomrn(:1ndations to 1ne, d.id rneC'!t., but up unUl the timE! I 1E!ft l":o come over here today I hRd not seen thed.r rE!COmrnendations fr·om l:heir· rnl!:1(;!i:.ing. MR. LO~G : Mr. Speaker . Mf~. SPEAKER : A final supplementary . Mf~. LONG: Ml". Speaker·, again I would ask Li'tE!

Mi.n"i.st: ~:!J" of thc,1 Fnv:i.r·onm~:!nL a similar question: Is hE! tE:!lling Lhe House that the Minister of Forest Resources announced th :is yec:n·'s spr'i:lY progr<:unrnE.~ lAiil":hout having received any submission from the Departmc,mt of the Environment, in particular any recommendation that would have been made by the Pe s ticide Advisory Board? If so, is the minister saying that thE! Min:i .stE!r ' of For•r:1st Re:1sources is pr·oc•:;!~HLing to issue licences which do not havr:1 the,) appr·oval. that. the MinistE!r of Envi .ronrnE!nt and Lands is responsible for? ]"'R_~JL\.!SSI~JL : Mr·. Spe!akE!r' . MR.

SPEAKER : rhe han. lhe M1n1ster of Environment and Lands . MR. RUSSELL: 1\Jo . 3 9 R2070

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the han. House that the Minister· of Forest Resources and I are working hand :in hand, "i.n closE! co-opr:H't'ltion on any spray programme. The report of l:.h~~ Aclvi.sor·y Commitl~H~- i.l: "is merely a Committee to adviSE! and rnNke r·~~corn1n~:!ndt:~l"::ions- 1:-.ho r~~suJ.ts of their meet:ing, I havr::~ not SE!E!n b e c ;:~ u s c,~ t h e y r.\1" r,~ no t i'\ tHd. l 1:1 b l. (;! a s yet. I understand the minutes and t.h(:~ r·c~comrn(~l'lddtions dr'e bo··.i.ng typed up and might be ready for· me t h "i. s i.~ f 1.: ~~ r· n o o n , b u t I h d tJ c,~ n o t y (:~ L SE:HHI them. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Sprc:·\Y i.:h(:~ lnC:11TibE!Y'! MR. KELLAND: Mr· . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for Naskaupi . MR. KELLAND: I have a question for the Minister Responsible For Rural., Agricultural and Northern ~evelopment. Is Newfoundland Enviroponics making a profit or taking a loss in Nova Scotii:'l on the sale of Sprung cucumbers at fifty-nine cents each? MR . POI.rJF:: f~ : Mr· . Speakc,1r . MR . SPEAKER: ThE! han. th~~ A g r· ·.t c 1.1 1 t 1.1 r c:~l. D(~VE:'loprnent. MR. POWER: Minister of Rural, and Northern Mr·.

Spc-:'!akE:'r', i'\S I lrl(?.nti.onod in my opening answer to the question about lhe regular Sprung controversy in this Province, everyone in Newfoundland realizes that the Liberal Party of Newfoundlt3.nd has t·.o hopr::1 t·.:h<:\ t. UH:1 Sprung organization fails - has to hope .it! Their pol:iticc:~l. futur·e L2071 May 18, 1988 Vol XL is just as much tied to it as they try to tie government 1 s political future to it. We know you are hop"i.ng UH~l: ·i.t. 'is gotng lo faJl, but you have to face reality.

I lAJas at the Sprung facili .ty, tl'w 1\IE:~l~Jf ot.l nd l.i:\ nd En IJ t ro po n"i. c s r a c :i.1 i t:y yesterday eVE!ning IA.itth six or· S(~tJE!n of 1ny S(Hl"Lol" Agr··tcultur·C\J. slaff. It is absolutely amazing ~~~ h H 1:. J. s h ~~ p p e n "i. n g oi. n t I 1 E! faci ·li ty. As the Pl"ern:ier offerE!d y(~st.~~rrlc:-\1), ·i.F ~;o1no of l·.:h(:! Doubl:.:i.nq Thomases still IAJant to put thoil" f '.i. n q e I" s J. n t. h r,~ h o l. r::! s 1:. o rn 6l k l:' s u r· E! that thE! holE!S ar(:! therr.:1, we IAJLl'.l bri.ng you ·i.n and IAJe IAri.ll. shOIAJ you maybe the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Wells) and the Leader of the NDP (Mr. FentAJick) should come:'! back -Ln Lhc;! Spi"Ung facility this week clS cornparE!d a s to what they saw last week. It is absolutely amazing. · TherE! arE! two tractor tra:i 1E•rs up at the door being loaded with Sprung produce, with peop1E! goJ.ng back and forth with l:ittle cartloads of boxed cucumbers as fast. as th~~y can go. Thc;!I"E! i.'H'e 200 people in thet"E! packaging J'l:. It J.s no+: Dtsnoyland, but.

I tE!ll you there is tremendous activity :i. n thE! r· (;! , d !> rn1.1 c h act i v -L l:·. y c:'J s yo Ll wi 11 see in any fish plant aY'ound I\IOIAJfoundlrH1d dtir·:ing 1-.I'H:! rn:i.cldl.o of .f11l.y or· Augus l:. As it rela~es to Lhe forty-nine cr::~nt price or fifty-·n:l.rHo! cent p r· oi. c c,~ , IAJ (! lAd. 11. s (~ l. l c u c u rn b e r· s a l:. a profit in any giVE!n fiscal yE:!ar·. Tf that l'fiOdns thi:·\t loday Ci.ICUiflbE!r's are going to be seJ J.:i.ng for sixty-n1ne cents here in St. John 1 s around four or five o 1 clock .... and that:. :is IAJht:<~l-. I unclersl:ancl -­ maybE:~ thE! han.

ITlE!ITibE!r shouJ.d havE\ waited and brought his cucumber this evening, and he would have saved himself fifty·-rdnE! or sixty No. 39 R2071

ct:~nt:>. lf, tn ordc~~r to dccoss t.he rnar·ketplace in Nova Scotia or the m~rketplctce in Ontario, if, in order to make sure that certain cucurnbc~r pr·oclucE:!rs 'i.n tht.;! oth~~r provinces do not have a vE:1ry profit~ble year, we will do CBI"tain Lhing~; in thE! marketplace to make sur·e thi!lt. w~::1 i.-\1"1::1 tn there. We are going to be ~n there and IAie ar·e going to stay in there and we are going to rnake a pr·ofi t. MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker· . MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Gander. MR. BAKER: Back to the spraying, Mr. Speaker. I would say that both ITI"i. 1'1 -i. St."!

I" S i:ll" E~ lAir' 0 n 9 , bE~ C d 1.1 S E~ neither one of them knows what L h c,1 y ,:1 r· E~ l:. <:~ 1 k t n g about IAI h E:1 n l·: hE'! y are talking about the spray progl"t'\rnmc,~. SOME liON. MF.Mf.lERS: Oh I oh! MR. SPEAKER : Order I please ·! fi~-· BAK[~R: Are we to understand, from the Minister of Environment and Lands, that he has, wjthout a report from the Pesticide Advisory Board, given approval to the spraying of the nE:~rve po:i.son rather· than \:he safe Bt approach, he has given that approval without go i ng to that Pesticide Advisory Board and get.Ung the'i.r· rE:~port.?

Is that what we are to understand, that this has been environmentally approvt:1d and he has given the 1. :i. c E:! n s E~ IAri. t·. h o 1.1 t. "~ \J t'! n r· ~;! f co?. r· t'! n c o t. o this Advisory Board? MR. SPEAI<ER: 1...2072 Mi'\ y 1. a , 1 9 a a lJo l. X 1.. . The hon. l:h:~ 1'-H n-i. s tE:!r' of Environment and Lands. MR. RUSSELL : Mr·. Spc,h-lkt"H', IAJhcl'l: I said was vc;!lny true. The board only rn~=!t yE~stHrdi:'ly <\lft(:!l"noon. 1: IAJas :in caucus rnost of thE! ITiolnnJng and l und~::1r•s tc:·lnd MR. BAKER: They have been meeting for years . MR. RUSSELL: Mr.

SpeRker, I suppose the Pesticide Advisory Board rnet two o r t h r· e E:~ y e a r s a 9 o . Y r,, s , I cl o have that report. I am not as slow as the hon. rnernber. Mr. Speaker, up until the time thdl :. I ca111e CJV('!Y' hc;!r'e th'is after·noon, the minutes and the lnr~COI'I'II'fiE'!I'lciHli.ons of 1-:hr::! !net'! l: .... i.nq, tAJhich on]y concJ.udE!d J.ab:• y o s 1·: E:! r· c:l ,,, y c·l F t:. (;! I" n o o n , h d d n o t r•et.'lched rny dE:~s k. MR. BAKER: Rubb~~r sb:unpE:Hi! MR. RUSSELL: The member is a rubber stamp. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speai<E:~r. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! han. the mEmlbE!r for Bonavistc:-l Nor·th. MR.

LUSH : Mr·. SpeakE!rl I ha\JE' qUI:•stion fcqn UH~ M 'i n i s t EH' o f' M u rd c i p a 1 A f fa i r s (Mr. Brett). It rE!latE!S to the \AJE:~J.l. .. -knOIAJI'l Johnson r~E!tr·o Boar·d land dispute. The m'inistE!r tAJi11 know that ostensibly the Supreme Court last year ordered his p r (~ d (! c r:~ s s o I" 1: o -:i. n t (;! r· \J (~ n (;! 1·: o f i. n d c:~ f:inal r·E:~solution to th:is 1and d J s p 1 1 h~ . H a ~' l:.lr'i. s b r:HHl c:l o n r:~ ? I f not, why not:? And wl'li!lt. dOE!S l::he No . 3 9 R2072

minister plan to do to ensure that the Johnson family, c\nd other families living in this general area, are treated fairly and justly? MR. SPEAKER: The hon . Lht,~ M.in'i.ster· of Mun"i.ci.p;'ll. Affairs . MR. BRETT: The Notice of Purchase was received by the former Minister. ] L was approuE:H:l and folnwardE!d to Me i:. r· o B o ;:\ I" d . My t.l n d c~ r !> 1-:. a n c:l :i n •::J .i. s t.hat: subsequently Metro Boar·d mdde a n o f f C:~ I" o n 1: h c;! J o h n s o n p r· o p c,11" t y which they d:isagreC:~ with. It is now up l:o U·w Johnson fdm-LJ.y to sa.y YE:1S 01n no, which I unde1nstand they haue not done.

HoweV(:H', ·i.f LhC:1Y St~Y no, HHHJ the,~ next sl:ep is an independent arb:L Lr·at.:ion bomr·d. Until th~:!y take this final step of saying yes or no, thc;!n, of cour·se, it. cannot go to arbitration. But at this point in time, the government, or the ministE!r, whate!uer, has no role to play in this particular case. We complE!ted our role when the Notice of Purchase was acknowledged, and forwarded to Me l:.r·o Board. At Hri.s poi.nt of U .me, !:her·~~ i.s nothing that I or· the d!'::1partment c a n do . A n y f u 1: h ~~ r a c 1·. :i. o n 1. :> u p to the Johnson family. MR.

LUSH: A SllppJ.~:!lfH:!ntdry, Mr·. ;:)podkc;!r' . Ml~. SPEAKU~: A 5 U ppl ~WIE:Hlt.a I"Y . Th~1 hon. the me!rnber for· Bonavista Nort:.h. MR. LUSH : DoE~s thE! rnin:istE!r honE!Stly bE!J.:ieVE! the~ t the of-Fer of $7, 300 1-ni:lde by L2073 May 18, 1988 Uol XL. Metro Board for 6. 5 acrE!S of land in the Thorburn Road area is a fair market priCE!? If so, can thE! ., minister "i.ndicate where that family can purchase a building Jot "i.n l:he Metropol"i.tan area of St. John 1 s for $7,300? To say nothing of bLiy'i.ng thr,~ ~~quivi'll.E!l'lt amount: of land, 6. 5 acrE!S. MR.

SPEAKER : The hon . the Minist.E'r of Munj cipaJ. Affr.·d.r·s . Mf~. BRETT : Ml". Speaker·, it: is not fo1" rne to ~; i'l y IAJh e t h (:! r· o l" not. t.: h ~=! off(;! r· oF $7,300 is a proper one or not. T h ~H' r,~ i s a tJ f~ ~l'i. c l. ~~ , a r· o 1.1 t:. e , whatever, that thE:1 family can fol.l.ow 'i.f they do not agr'~::H:! w:i.th thE! offer, as I helVE! aJ.rE:1ady out l t nrc! d . ·r hE~ y F :i r· s t:. h d v <'' to say yes or· no, that they L~ri.J.1 accept: l h c;! o F f E! I" o t' 1':. h C:! y IAJ "i. l. 1 n o l~. a c c E:! p t. thE! offer.

And if thE!Y ar'E! not pr<-".par·~:!d to accE!pt Lhe offor, then, as I haul'::~ alrE!ady told the hon. gentleman, they should say that they d o no t wt s h to a c c e p t -i. t , i. t. i s too l. ow , a n d t h c.~ n i. t will go to an indE!pendenl: arbitration board, and the decision of the board, from rny 1.1 n d ~=' r· s t. d n d i. n g , t s b i. n d :i n g o n b o t h partiE's.

I also undE!rstand that eith~~~n pi'lrt :y can t:hccHl go l:o cour· t·:, not n E! c e s s a r i 1 y to h a v e thE:' p r· j , c E! c h d n g E:! d b 1 1 t i 1.: c 1:·\ n b c:' t. a I< e n to cour·t on a point of latM. s·ince bot:.h fi.1E!'l:r·o floi:\l"d i'lnd th~~ Johnson family would have laiAJYE'i"S, then I dm s11r'H Uwy IAJOtiJ.d F"i.nd a !Alay Lo get it into thE! courts. But whether I agree with the offer that b!'::~en made is irrelevant, it I" ~~ d ll y h i:·\ s n o b e r::t t' :i n g o n t. h c~ case.

And whether I thought I was o no u g h or· not , I c C'! r· t. a :i. n 1 y tAJO u 1 d not say in this House of Assembly, or anywhore elso. No. 39 R2073

MR. LUSH : Mr. Speake!". Mf~. SPEAKI~R: A f:i.nal suppleruentary. M R . LlJ ~:5 II : "TT;,~~ -rnii1J ster· kno1.JJs that ME,tr·o Board ts an ctgency of this gover·nme,nt., appointed by this govc"rnment. Th<:H'f~for·f~, does the minister not feel any sense of obligation or political responsibility to protect our citizens from unjust and unfalr treatment? Does the minister not feel that he-?. is sh:i.rking his responsibilitiE!S in not playing a more active role in this matter? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Municipal AffaJ. r·s . MR. BRETT: Well, Ml". SpeakEH', I have alrE,ady told the hon.

Jn<:,rnbf:!r' Lhr:~ 1-. l~hc:'r'f'' 'Ls no rolE:~ for the minister· to play. T h <~~ r <~~ m· E:~ s o rrH~ 3 ?. ~~ m 11 rd. c i. p a J. i. t :i. E:~ s 'in this Province and about 150--odd L o c i:~ 1. ::> c~H' td c f?. D t s 1: r· i c -1: ~' , r:Hl d 1'. h <~~ munJ . cipaJ.j ties and the Local S e r td. c e D :i s t r· i. c i: s o p e r a +.: f:' u n d EH' thE?. Municipalit:i.es Act. They are, I suppose~~, autonomo11s "i.n i:t Sf~ns<-?..

The~~ govE:1rnment doE:~s not interfere i:lS long r--1s th~1y opf:,r·ai·:C:! undf:,r· l·.:he Act, and I am not necessarily responsible for their act"i.ons as long as they operate under the 1. e g i s 1 at i o n , and - Me t r· o Board d o <" s not have to report to me. In this particular case, as I told the hon. member, ther<~~ i.s vehi.cl.e, there is a route which the farniJ.y can follow, and I would assume they will follow it. M8 . ..:.._. EFFORD: Mr. SpE,aker·. MR. SPEAKER : L. ')07 Ll· May 18, 1988 Vol XL The hon. tho mernber for Port de Grave. Mr~. EFFOFW: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My quf~st: i.on J.s t:o t:hf~ M"i.nis l::er· of Social S~~rviCE!S (Mr. Tobin). At pr·~~SE:!I'll'.: t.hf~r·~1 ar·:~ mbo11t.: f~i.rt.y to sixty refugees presently staying -i.n GiHH:IE!r. 1 LdOI.ild l.:i..ke l:o ask the Minister of Social Services what is the policy of his department as far as paying for th~~ accou1rnodations of t.hos~~ p~wple presently staying in Gander goes. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Uw Mtnis t.er of Social Servicf:1S. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Sp(~1ak<H', I am not:. i"liAJar·e of the~ situation to which the hon. g~~nl·.l.~~rnr:<tn r'f:,f~:!t's, b11t.

I IAJ'.'i.ll certainly take it.: under advisement i:lrld gi.l)(~ h"i.1r1 i::hO dl'lSIAlE!r i:·\1- i.·l li:ll::C:!r' date. MR. EFFORD: Mr. SFH~i:ll<("r . MR. SPEAKER: A suppleme,ntary. Mf~. EFFORD: Dof~s l'.:h"i.s 1ninJsi·. :E!t' knOIAl i:~nyl::h:i.ng? I ask the minister, vE,ry clE!i.H'ly, what policy does his department have inasfar as transportation and meals ctrc,~ COrlC<-H'I'l~~d for• Cl. r=arnily is leaving Bay Robe,rts to travel to hospital in St. John 1 s? Do they pay for transportation and rneal.s, or· just tr·anspor·l-.at:ion? MR. SPEAKER : ThE! hon. the M:inistE!r of Social Ser·vtces. MR. TOBIN: Mr.

Spe,aker·, the hon. gE:,ntlernan 1 s f ·t r· s 1.: q u ~~ s i: J. o n IAJt:·lS r·~:,gar·d"i.ng No. 39 R2074

refugees and his second question was regarding Bay Roberts. The answer, Mr. simple: Whatever entitled to. MR. EFFORD : Mr· . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: Speaker, they is ar·e A final supplementary, the han . the member for Port de Graue. MR . EFFOIW : Unb~:! liE~~H3.ble! Let: 111e g .. i.1H:! anst..vel" and a~; k si:unc~1 t"LIIlE!. Why MR. SIMMS : i: hE~ m:i n j. s 1: e r a quE~s tion at ·J. s J. t 1.: h i'l. t --· A point of order, Mr . Spe~ker. MR. SPEAKER: i:.hP the A po:int of or·der, the hon . thE! President of the Council. MR. SIMMS : M r· .

S pea I< e r , the r u 1 e s c 1 ear· 1 y state that a minister may or may not answer a question. They also clearly state that comments, because a minister does not answer a qtJes tton, are not warranted during Q11est.Jon Per·iod. That "i.s clear. Thirdly, the hon. member is on h'.i.s second S11pph11r1entary and he pr•e:1faces l:hat by saying he is going to iHlS!AJC·H' a question and lht1n ask a question. Sure:1ly Your· Honour c~nnot permit th~t to go on. It. is not pc,1nn:i tted. MR. SPf::AKER: To that po::lnt of order·, it.

J.s CJ.E~i:\Y' l:.hdt for Sl.lppJ.E:!Hl~~ni:.c\Y'"i.t~S r:·\l'ld f i n a 1 s u p p J. (~Hfl e n t a 1n :i e s L h e r e s h o u 1 d b 0 n 0 l'HH'! d f 0 r• iHlY fH' E~ a I'll b l. (o1 , S 0 J ask the hon . member to ask his f'.i.nal supplementary. Mf~ . EFFORD : L2075 May 18, 1988 VoJ. XL Mr. ~:>peakE!r, that i.s <-?.xactly wbat I was going tq do. I ask the Minister of SocJ.al Services why it is that a refugee coming into this Provine< "! is allowed $7SO a rnonl:h for food, and aJl 1odging paid, l~Jhen a r'E!Sident. of l::his Island, a constituent frorn Bay Roberts, Js only f:\ 1 J.

OIAH:! d $14- t. o 1: r· d v r:1l. l:: o. l: he Health Scie!nces CornplE!X and had to go <:d.J. dr:·\Y lAJi.l':hout food? In fact, I had to take her to the cafeteria a n d · l:l 11 y h C"! r· lu n c h . T h e fhq:> iH' t rrw n t of Social Serv:ices, either in thE! Confudt~1rdl"i.on Ru-i.J.dtng or· Ln Bay Roberts' lAJOUld not g:iVE! hc:!ln 1Tl011E:!Y for ·food. MR. TOBIN: IJIJ h a t :i. s L h c~1 q u f'! s 1:. i o n ? MR. EFFORD : Mr· . Spe~k~H', :r wi l l repeat Jt again. Why is co1n.i.ng tnl:o i. t t h a t a r· <:! f u g E!E! l:hjs countr·y is aJ.lowed $7SO a month for food, when a res'.i.denl - MR.

SIMMS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: Order, pJ.ease! A point of order, the hon . thE! President of the Counci.l. MR. SIMMS: The hon . member was up for a third i:: i. rn e d n d :i. s "' t. t (~ rn p t "i. n g t. o g c,1 t: u p for a fourth timE! to ask a s u p p J. f~ m tHl i::r:u· y q u e s 1:. :i. o n . MR. TULK : Thdt is not 8 point of order . r"1R. SIMMS: The Opposition House Lea d e r (Mr T11l.

k) cr:'ln i"<,1spond Lo 'l:.h"i.s. The hon . put a q 1.1 f~ s 1.: :i o n , No. 39 rneHJbf:!l" should be ab1<:! Lo precise supp1ernentary surely, so thai': R2075

rninJsters can under·si:and lAJhal:: thc,1 hon. m~1mber is trying to say. The other· po 'i. nt:. is l::h~~ rn:i.rdshH' does no·l: have to anstAJer 'thE:1 question r:lnYI)J i.~Y . T. do know !::hE! hon . rnEnnbc,1r :is undE:1r a Jot: of pr'E!Ssure over thf'!I"O l:.Odi:1Y 1~1 :'i. t:h Ljf'! no1n-Lnc:1t'.:i.on deadline for his disLric:t due at 5 o'clock . I Als o know Lhern i s another nominat:ion about to be f .i. led , <:1 n d rrli:t y b (~ t: 1·1 r:1 t: 'i. s t: h c;! r·eason. Ml~. SPEAKER : Ot"der, ple!aSE:1! MR . SIMMS: He is trying om1 last pE!rforrnance! to i mpress his l e ader maybe. MR.

TULK : To that Speaker . po "i.nt MR. SPEAKER: of o rd r,1 r·, Mr . To that point of or·de:!r, the han. the member for Fogo . MR. TULK: Fir·st of al1, Mr. Speaker, let rne s<:ty l':.hc:lt IAJhat the-?. hon. g~~ni:l.f~lflr:ln said :in h:is last sentence or so hctd no t h:lng i:o clo IAd.l·: h a point of or·der. And, secondly, let rne poinL out l:o Yo1.1r Hono11r· ll'lr'll. 'l:.hl'! rnE:Hubc,H' for· Port dE!

Gr·avE:~ as kr::1d a Vt1r.IJ precis(~ q11P s Lion . l'hc,~ Lr'lt t: h of the mattE:1r is that I bE:1lieve the Minister of Soc:-Lal Saruices could not hear the question becau se of what was go'i.ng on down in that conlE:~r. Not..u, I believr::~ !: h e1 t i. s +·. h c,~ t· r' L! i·: h . I c;! t rnc,1 sa IJ on H other thing, Your Honour. The hon. member doc:.~s not. h<WC"! to put up with the Government House Leader tell:i.ng the hon. C.:J(:HltltHnan how many supplernentaries he can ask . As a mai:tc-:H' of fact., if Your· Honour wants to let him he can ask t wenty. It.

"i.s not. f or· Lh~~ hon. gentlema~ to say. 1..2076 Mi.i y 1 8 , 19 8 8 Vol XL MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! There is no point of order. I think the hon. mE:HnbEH' did a s k hJ~; f.i.n;:<~J. Sl . lpplr~lflf'!l'll'. iiii"Y r::tnd Lhr:~ hon. min:i.ster· a s k E!d him to repE!at ·i.t, ,:'lnd T r :d.loi~H' !!~ t hc'tt. pos'i. t."i.on Lo dE!VE:~lop, ThE! han . the ITIE!rnber for Por·t d E! Gr·r:1 v · ~ ~ . MR . EffORD : Mr . Speaker, the rea s on t..uhy I clsi< E!d l::he qUI'::~Sti.on 'i.s t)(;!CaU S (~ thE! people in this Province are not getting enough money to live o n. MIL_J.ONG: Ar·e you refugees? MR.

EFFOIW : b1<:1rn·i.ng Lhm L on No. I am quite happy t h at thE:! t' ~=! f 1.19 c:! E~ s d r· E:~ g ( ~ 1'.: 1.: in g IAJ hi'\ t getting. All I <.'l.rn askoing Lh0 1\JewFoundl.;Hld fH:wpl.(;! be;! at least on an equally fair t.hc,1 y a r'E! i s that t r· E~ a l:: e d basis . Why is it. thE:~ p E! 0 p 1 E! 0 f -Uri s P r· o t; 'i n c H c i.'l n n o t: g c,~ · I ~ i:l. 1.: l H <:'l s '1-: f o o d and t1Manspo1Mtation monE!Y wl·wn Uwy h .:·llJf.! t: o t r· d tH~ l L o c:'l ~') t . J o h n 1 s hospital, when refugees in thi s P r· o t; inc f~ c iHl g E:d: t. E ~ n l.: t 1rH:! s wh <'l i·.

I)J (o1 are allowed ourselves? SOME HON. MEMBERS: l·h:'ar, ht~ar! MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Minister of Soc:ia1 Ser·vic:c,~s . MR. TOBIN : Mr. Speak e r, basica11y what t h e hon . <_:j(~nt.l.c,~ man :i. s say:ing :i.s , ''ll\lhy do peop1e living in Newfoundland no t:. g C'! t r:1 s 1 n u c h <:•1 s p to' o p l r:~ IAI h o a r· E! rE!fUgE!eS com t ng :in . " ThE! DE:!par·Lrn~~nt. oF ~)oc:iHl :: ;E~r·v.ic(~S hdvt~ No. 39 R2076

never backc-?.d avJc:'ly, Mr·. Sp~1r:'lk(~r, from helping people who are in n~~<:1d and peopl.<:1 t~Jho r:-~r·c-:1 ~~l.ig:i.bl.e for social assistance. WE! have increased the budget of th<:1 Department of Social Services every s·ingl.(;! year, and 8V(-H'Y gottE!n total division, Mr·. SpeakE:1r, has an increase, including the departmEHlt. A s C\ rna t t e r· of fa c t , M r· . S p e ;:~ k e t' , this year, effectiVE! the first of May, th(;!r'~?. IAJHS an i.ncrE!i~U;(;! t.o i~ll1 social assistance recipients in the Province, including the ones from Bay Roberts. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Heal~, h~~ar·! MR.

TOAIN: 1\JOIAJ, Ml". !3p(~dkf=!r, r do nol· : f<now IAJh(H'C.:1 H](o1 hon. gE!I'l"llernan :is corning) F I" om o n 1". h J l> . T g 1.1 ~:! s s 'i 1... 1. :; 1: h E:! tact"ic that he USE!S in eVE!rything hE~ br"i.ngs up in t:h.i.s Hous(->.. T can tell him that lhe people in Bay Roberts and the people in every part of Newfoundland got an increase effective the First of May as it rE!]ates to social assist.ancE:1. Mr. Speaker, he wants t.o tal!< about why does somebody not get something as much as anybody else. Why does thE! Leader of thE! Opposition get paid more money, Mr.

Speaker, than any other Opposition lerJder in Canada, :i.F he wants to talk about parity and t.hf~se Lypi':1S of quf:!S'I-."i.on~>? MR. SPEAKEr~ : Or·d~~r, p l ~~aS1':1! haVE! to bi'.l c k m~Jay, Ml". s FH~ r:·\ !< (;! In ' f I" () fll 0 I I r' s u p p 0 I" i . 1:. () Uw p€~opJ.€~ IAJho ai"E! on social ass :isl: ancc,', Lt.Jh(c1Lh(:!r' l:hoy ]. · i . tJr~ "'i.n St. John's, IAJhetht'::~r· LhE!Y livE:~ in L20'77 May 18, 1.988 Vol. XI. B r.\ y R 0 b ~H' i: s ' 0 Y' IJ.J ~)(~ t. h (H' ti'H?. y l. j_ v (,1 in St. Anthony. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Thc-:1 hon. tnirLi.s LE!r does not app~'!iu·· to bE:' answering the qUE!Stion. HE! is under no obligation to answer. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, pleaSE!! The time for Oral Questions has now H ldps (·~d. Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given Mf~. SPE()I<ER: ThE~ hon. thE! M:irdslEH' of I-IE:~alth . DR. COLLINS : M r . S p c,1 d I< c;! r , I tA.Jo u l. d l i I<('! t: o t. ablE! the answers to question No. 140 as ked by thc,1 hon. t:hE! Jn(,~mber' for ME!nihEd< (Mr·. FE!nWick), and Qu(-?.st'i.on No. 88 as!<E~d by the hon. the member for Port de Grave (Mr·. Efford).

I think I will just table them, and thE!Y can bE! rE!C":ld rather than my reading them out. Private Member's Day MR. SPEAI<ER: This is Private Member's Day. MR. TOBIN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : A p o i. n ·1·: o F o I" cl H I" , 1":. h f:! h o n . 1:: h ~:! M:inister of Social Serv:i.ces. MR. TOBIN: 1\Jo. 39 R20'7'7

Mr . Speaker, I understand from your ruling that I did not answer the question. I wonder if you would care to point out to me what aspect of it I did not answer? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. TULK : Mr. Speaker, to the point of order . MR. SPEAKER: To thE:~ point of order·, l:hE:~ hon. the member for Fogo. MR. Tl.ILJ<: The Speaker ruled thai: the hon. gentleman was not answering the qUElstion.

N01JJ, i.t is hi.s choice whethElr hEl anslAJers i ·t or not, but the hon. g~mtleman i'lf:tS to understand that if thi Speaker feels l:hat he is straying or i·H,~ is taking too long in answering a question, the Speaker· has the r·ight to bring him to order. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, he has to understand that he cannot jump up in a temper tantrum and challenge the ruling of Your Honour. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HElar, hear! MR. TULK: He has l:o understand tl·1at as well . Your Honour did thE:~ right and prope::~r thing and he::1 knot•JS il, yet he is smarting over it. Mf~. SPEAKER: There is no point of order . MR.

SIMMONS: Name him! MR. SPEAKER: And t:he -Chair does not appr·eciab,~ being asked questions by any han. member. L2078 May 18, 1988 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE:~ar! MR. SPEAKER : This is Private Member's Day and the debate was adjourned by the hon. the ITIElmber for Bonavista North. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hr:~ar, hear! MR. ·LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I concluded my rE:~marks on this rElsolui:ion thE! last: ddy by say:ing th<:~!:. IJJc:J ~ertainly support this resolution. I did not like the wording particularly, I thought it. IAJas wordE!d rathE!r weakly. I also had a furthE!r cornpJ.atnt !:hat the first

WHEREAS in this resolution which states, 'WHEREAS th E! Pr·ovi.nd.al GoverniTIE!n t has had considerable success in strengthening the forest industry o n thE! I s 1 a n d of N E!lAif o u n d J. a n d through rnill upgrading and silviculture, • gave the irnprE!SS:i.on almost that since the provincial government had done everything that is possible with the development of the forestry in this Province, then !Ale should move to Labrador. I thought that was not acc!H'at .e. I thought IAJE:~ shou1d develop both together and there wa s c e r t. a i nl y no n e c <,~ s s i t y f o r that particular

WHEREAS. And, Mr . Speaker, I sort of indicated that I rather doubted that the pr·ouincia1 goVE!rl1l'llE!nt hdd done everything necessary in terms of - ensuring the maximum development oF the Fon!S t industry in this Province. I sort of doubted that, and I referr· e d particuJ.arly to siJ.viculture and for'E!St managr:~ment. I r·eferr<;!d to that and, low and bE• hold, Mr . Speaker. on the IJJeekend I r~!! ad :i.n one of the good papers of thts No. 39 R20'78

ProvincE:~, Edther· The Evening Telegram or The Sunday Express, lJ.Ih~H'e officials of the Department of For'E)S 1-'. l~esour'CE)S IAJ~:!Y'E! concer·nE)d about the dE!pletion of our forest on t.:he Avalon PE!n""i.nsuli.~, thc'!Y IAH'!Y'E~ very, very concerned about it. AN HON. MEMBER: And so ar·e we. MR. LUSH: Now, Mr. SpE!aker, gE!ntlernen on the o t h e r s 'i d e s a y , s o c:.u· e we . We l. l. , IAJhat are thE!Y going to do about i t , rvi r· . S p e a k c;! r· ?

D 'i. d t h C:! y n o 1:. know that OIH' for·ests IAJerE! bEdng depl.E~t:r.:1d bE~causc;! of the i.ncr'E'!<'ISC;!d use for Fuel c~nsumption and cornrnc-'!r·-Lc•'ll 1.1sc;!? Di.d Lhey not knOIAJ th:is, Mr·. SpeakE!r·? They ar·e just s oi t. L -:1 n g ·i. d l. y b y ,,, n rl IAI!:l t·. c h -i_ n g [: h E'! forest being ruined. Ml". ~~pr:1i:lkE:11'', I IAJ.ill go a 1.i.t.tJ.e F 1.1 r· t h c·H' .

T 1~10 111. d s u g g (! ~> t t h '-~ t: "i. t 'i.s not. only happ~ming on the AvHl.on PE!nJ.nsuJ.;'I, L:hdi: l.hE:!r·r~ i:li"C·~ sE:WC·>.r·aJ areas in this Pr·ovince IAJher·e 01.1r' for·1.:1sl:s ,u·o Jn c:li'lngr-'!r' of be:i.ng completel.y depleted, all, Mr. SpE!dkc:H', l:hr·ough neglE~ct •'lnd lack of foresight on the part of this government in developing a solid, sound, efficient, effective forE~st rnanagc-'!rTIEHlt pr·ogr•;:umne. They have not bE!E!n doing it, Mr. Speaker. Otherwise, they would not be caught in this situation.

Anybody driving the Trans-Canada Highway over the past ten or· fiftc;!(:!n year·s knotAJS, Mr·. Sp(~1aln-'!r, what a r·aktng, IAJhat a beating ou1n forE!SI: "Ls gott·.J.ng becHusc:! of l".hf:1 increased USE! with respect to d o tn (~ s 1.: i. c u s r.l g f:1 , i n p iit , .. t i. c 11 J. iH' . Mr. ~)p1.:1i3.ker, i'L is a sad, sad d;:~y. T ·i: -is nc,1glr,~cl·: on tho f>i'\r'l: of this govent!TIE!nt.

IJJho havE~ not had s u f f i. c 'i. ~:! n ·L f o r' H s 'i. g h 1: 1". o p u t ·i. n Uw pr·oper· for'f:1St manc:~gement pl"ogr·amrno ~) 0 i·:hd 1:: IAH) IAJOiil.cl noi: bH Cdl.llj h ·l: .. i. l"l t h a t s 'i t u a t: :i. o n t o d a y . L2079 May lB, l91lB Vol XI .. I IJJould say, Mr. Speaker, that it ext f:1l'l d ~; f I. II" 1': her· i:. h c'l n. the A v ell on Peninsula, that it :is in arE,as in CE~ntr·,'ll. l\ltc11AifOI.II'lrll;:~ncl, WE:!St(;!l"n Newfoundland, right throughout !-:hE!

I s J. d n d p a r· t o F t h .i. s P r· o v 'i. n c C'' , a n d it comes through extreme negl.ect a n cl l. d c k o f ·f o r· e s i g h t , l a c k o F planning by the provinc:ial govc~r·nlrlt1nl~., and par·ticular·J.y by the Dt:1partrne,nt of Forest Resources of this Provlnce. M r· . S p f:1 1:1 k E! r , I s "i. n c CH' e l y h o p E~ t h '"- y will heed the advice of Uwil" o f f ·i c -:i. i'l J. s , 1:: h e y IAI i. ll t a k e a c t -:i. o n based on the advicE! and the c o n c r,;! r· n s p r· c;, s €:1 n t:.

J. y b r,:! .l. n q c-?. x p I'' E~ s s E:! cl by the departmental officials. ~) o , M r· . 3 p e d k Cc1 r· , 1 h o p c~1 1·. h <~\ L t.: h (~ y w:ill take immed:iate act·ion, eJ.se IAHo1 ,u· r~ g o :i. n g 1·: o F i. n d o u I" s (;! l v C'! s :i. n this Ptnovince IAlitl·ioi.Jt any k :ind of d For·,,,~' 1: , ''! :i. 1: h r,:! r· f o I" co IIII'I'H'! r· c t <.'tl purposes or for domestic purposes. Mr. Spec'lkel", do IJJ~' suppo1nt. UtE! irld j_ n L: h r'll s -1-. oF t h J. :; J"

E) so 1 u t ton , which says, 1 BE IT · rHEI~EFORE r~FSOLlJED i.:hdl: [.:hi.s Hon. HOI.ISE:' go on record as encouraging the Go u e r· nr1H:' n t t. o con+: ·.t nut~ :1. t: s e Ff or· t s to bring a Forest Industry to l .. abr·ador 1 ? Yes, Mr·. Spc,1aker·, JJJE! support this resolution and IJJe I Ali. l. l. d o a 11 t n o u r· p o IAJ f:! r· t o encourage the governiTIE!nt. · And not only encot.wage, IAJe wi 11 pl~~ad IAI:'i. th them, we will beg them, we will exhor·t. ti·H:!JII to do J. l:, ~11n. Speaker. We wil.J. do al1 of thE!SE! t. h .i. n g s . A n d 1~1 h C:! n t: h o y cl o -L l:. , J.

F they want us to pat them. on t:he bi.-lcl<, sli:·\p t:h~~rn on Lhc'! back, IAJe will do that too. We will do th<'ll, Mr. Speaker, for the development of the forest industry :i. 1'1 I_ r:\ b r· i:\ d () r· ' !ill (:1 IAI f~ n L 1-. () ~; (~ 0 t: h E! forest industry in Labrador drwel.op~:!d l:.o tl:s rnt<tx·i.IIILITII. :111 1: IAJO f~ -1 s I) '.) d lj I ·!·.:t:·l b:! a look at: what is happening on the Ishlncl 1\Jo. 3 9 1~2079 •

part of this Province, and, Mr. S p e a I< e r , t a I< .e a c t ~1 o n i rnrn e d i. a t e 1. y to save the forest for present and f u t u r <.;! g e n e r t.'l t i o n s of Uli s P r· o v i n c E! . T h a n k you . SOME HON. MEMBERS: 1·1 ~~r.~r, hc-:~i:lr! MR. SPEAKFR: \he hon. t.he Pr·esJdc.;!l'lt of thr:1 Counci . l.. Ml~. STMMS: l han I< you, Mr·. Spr:1ake1". J c~rn pJc;!asr:1d, fir·st oF all, to hiit u r:! <Hl o p port 1.1 ni. -1:. y l.:o s FHH·ll< on the resolution so ably presented by my col.l.l,1ague and fr·ic.;!nd, Lhe m EHTI be r· For· S t .

J o h n 1 s E a s t Ex t e r n , t/Jho, I must say, dt-:1spi.l-.e l':i'lE:1 F;:;tct that he is a rather new member to the Legislature, and despite the fact that his background and history, I guess, is associated u.lith thE! fj shery, did an admirable job presenting that particular resolution, and I give him credit and commend him for it. Before I get int.o the"" r•c,1sol1j·l·.~i.on, I listened last WE:H:1k to cornrnE!nts rnadr:~ by member·s oppos -i.f::E:1 i:Hld f-.r•.i.t:1d to focus in on some of the cr·i.l:."i.ci'\1. poi. nl-.s l:h(~y IAJ~~r·c:!

ITI<;lking with respect to the resolution IAJiri.ch spr,~c:i.fi.r:ril.ly l:;il.ks db011l.: t:HlCOUI"Cigj ng thE! gOVE:1rniTIE:11'lt l: 0 coni ·.'lniH:! nffor·l-.s i··.o br·:i.ng r:~ Fnr'c'!SI: reJated industry to labrador. Unfot"·l:tll'ldh~J y, i'.l lot oF thE! C 0 lfiHI f'! n [··. S t h r:\ 1-. I~)('! Y' f~ l"fli:~ d ('! l~H:! r• f~ l"l 0 1.: related ~t all to that specific '1-·. o p ·i. c , b 1.1 1: "i. 1'1 r'\ g e n r-~ r· ct l. 1~1•'1 y related to forestry, and, I suppos(-:'!, 't.:hRI:: would be acceptable. But I must point out l:.o t·. h r:! rnc,1111be r· for· R o n<:w i. s I: a Not' 1.: h (Mr· .

Lush), who VE:'ry infrE!quently says anything t-.o upset rne, and I am not sure if he realizes what he L20HO May 1.8, 1988 Vol. XL said, or if he believes what he · saJd, or i.f he "i.s fully committed ·to whal hE! said, bE!Cause 1 cannot for Lhe J."i.fc,1 of IIIE:1 bel.i . ove that. he would be if hE! just thought about IAI h •~1 +:. h r.;! s ii J. d F o r' i'l rn o m (;! n t. , t h b\ t·. h r:?. critoiciZE!d the governrnc;!nt., talk:i.ng r'\bOIIi-. t.:hr'! lack o·f s.lJ.u i.cultur·e:~ effort.

He pointed out that a Few d d y s ,,, go t h ~'! r· o IAii:-1 s "' s 1·: o r' y ""i. n ~~ newspaper quoting forestry offic"i.al.s as sr'\yiny thore was a c on c-e r n o n t. he A v a l o n P e n i n s ul a IAJi.·l·.h r-r~spr~c:l·: 1-.o "' li:'tck of l::hE! r E! source , most 1 y for· those in t h :is dt'r~a 1~1ho I~Jould 1.1s~~ -i.l: for· dornf:!st-.-i.c use, in their woodstoves and so on, and h~~ sr:·1ys l·.:h(·lt". th·.is government should be nailed for not: do"i.ng rnor1~ i.n s"i.J.u:i.cull·.·. ur·~1 so as to overcome that particular probl.~Hn. NOIAJ, sur·ely, ·l.:hC:1 111(,1tn~l<'!t' r·~~al:iz(:!S, Mr.

Speaker, that it would take f o r t. y y l.;! a r· s 'l:. o g r o IAJ r:,1 L r' E! e , t:~ n cl this governmE!nt u.Jhich came inl:o potAJer· in 1979, l::his par·t .:icular' administration, bE!gan siJ.vtcult.urE! :i. t b e g a n s l :i. g h tl y b e f o r c-?. t h a t , in late 1978. We have beEHl doing :i.'o·· .. But i.f the party of which t he hon. member is a part and a rnE!ITibE!r had '"i. n 1·. h r~ 'o··.tAJf~ n +-. y .. l·: hI"(~(~ y c:! "'r· s ·1·: hey formed Lhe government, back from 1. 9 11.9 1.1 n l·.

"i.l l 9 7 /. , IAI h '~ n ''! 'J l:! r· "i. t. 1.11 f.-l s , if that govE:1rl'liTI(~nt, that Ub~~l"a1 r:-ldrn"i.nisl":r·,:~l . ·i.c:>n fol'' I··.I~Jent·.y ..... -J-.:hr'<~(:1 YC:'ar·s had undertaken siJ.vJculturE! pr'ogr·<·1111HIC!\;, t:hl:!n 1-.:hr:! pr·obl.f~lfl l::hi:lt:. the;! han. ffi(:Hnber· a11ud(:1cl to, h(•r'E! on t·. h ~~ () 'J <:~ l on P ~'! n "i. n s t.i l ,., , 1rri. g h t. not. be a problem at all. Because that 1.s for·ty y(~r:H'S ago, ;:~nd IAJ~:! trH'l.Y haVE! had more rE!SOUrCE! . on the Aue1lon to Assist those people. B u t for· ·1:.

IHH:l b:! l y for· L I·H~ r.Hw p 1 e of NNvfound1and and Labrador·, thE!Y (.;! l (~ c-1: E! d a g o v e r· n rn e n t b a c k ·.i n 1 9 7 9 which had foresight, which had . 1\lo. :~9 [~2080

d8 ·te:H·mj nation, and 1/Jhtch was p r· (.;! par·(~ d · ~. o 1.1 n d r.~ r· i: i.'\ I< c,1 rn;~ ~; s i . lJ f~ silviculture programmes, massive p r·og r· mm11H~ s c o1np;u· ('! c:l l·.o ~~~1·1 ·~ i: hdd hctppfHlHd before . In the hon. membl'.H''s o1~m di.sLr·-i.ct, ~,u; i:l 111a'l-:h~r of fact, and in the hon. mr::1mber's d :i. s t r· :i c t o v ~1 r· t: hE! I" c.;! , I~ h ~:! I"(~ h d v (~ been pr·ograrnrnes, and in othE!r member's districts from all over the Province, but done by this ad mi. rd. s tra t .i.on. So t-.he hon. member· for· Bonav 'i.stf:l.

North, l:o be pE!rfE!Ctly frank, IAJas v e r· y un fa :l r· .in that. par· 1-.: -.L c ul. a r· cr·:i.tic:i.sm. Now, I do not know if he IAJas deliberat.(~, if he rnc,1ant. l:o be unfair to the government, but t: hat L s c (·H' t a .l n l. y p o s s :i. b l E~ . I 1/JouJ.d not. say now that that would b(:! <:ln unusut:ll 'l·.h·i.ng to happl-;!1'1, but. it js unusual fr·orn the member for BonHv··i . s t-.·.a Nor·i ... h, Mr·. Sp('!i:-li<HI".

Your· Hono111" knoiAJs F11l.l ~~J<,,ll. hoiAI :i rup or tan t: s :i 1 v :i. c u 1 t: u r· e p r· o g r a rnrn E! s <::ll"c~, bHu~11~;p "i.n Yot.Jr' Honour·' s OIAJI'l district there have been massive numi:HH'S of' si.l.,ri.cul.l-.:ur·f~ f>r'09t'i:Himlc-:1S und(~rtai<C:Hl over ·the YE!ars, perhaps lf)(H' (-;1 1-:. h •Hl "i. n i'Hl y 0 1-:.i·H,H' d :i. S i':r' "i. C t: 'i. l'l the Province, I am not quite sure. YOU I" Honour·' s district is an arE!a wh c;! r· Cc1 par· t: i. c 111 ;;w l y s aiJ..Jrni 1.

J. op~~ra · f:j ons arE! rnaj or, and Your Honour· has done:1 a magn:ifi.CE!I'lt job in encouraging goVE!r·nrnent to spend fund s on s -i.l v oi. c ul. t u r· c~ :l n his particular constituency. Now, Mr. Spr:!aker, C.;!nough said about that. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudi.ble). MR. SIMMS: No, I was not: taJ.king about His l·lonour· l·:hc;! ::3pcc1akt~r·, H:i.s HonOLII" IAJho actua1ly occupJ.(,1S thE! Chair· r·ight 1'101~1, I~JhO i. S i:.hf~ f)~~put:y ~)fH~di<C"!Y'.

Hcc1 has donE! a rnagnifiCE!nt job in lobby-Lng i.-lnd Hnc:ot.lr·ag-:i.ng dnd 1..2081 Mc~Y 18, 1988 Uol XL fighting and scraping for money to fllli: i. l'l t: 0 S i.l. \) :i. C Ill. i: 1.1 t' (,1 :i. 1'1 h j_ S OIAitl partic1~lar const-ituency and shouJ.d be-~ COHiliiC:11'1c:lr~d fOI" ·i.·!-.. AnyiAJay, l::hi:tt is enough of that, Mln. Speai<E!r'. Tl'ldL ~~J,~s j1.1st a r·~~sponse l::o an outburst by the member For Bon.:.J.v"i.s·l·.i:'l NOl"Lh, 1~.1h:Lch disappointed me considerabJ.y. Now, Mr. Speaker, to get to the resol.ut:i.on.

Obviously, as a former Mintster of Forestry for the Province, having spent three and a half years in that p a r t. i. c ul. iH' p o s oi. t .i o n , I h a v o a n interest stiJ.J in forestry matters. MR. KELLAND : t:n hunt.ing . MR. SIMMS: No, I do not have any intE!InE! St::i.ng -i.n hunl·:i.ng. Thr::! hon. lfi("!TTibl"!r' For· Naskaupi can irnpl.y al1 hE! wdnLs, b111·. T rio nn 1.. hu nl .. T r·llrt no l'.: ''' hunter, despite the littJ.e i.ns"i.nui:ll·. -i.on l:.hfH'O ·f'r·om acJ"o~;s l'.:hr:1 way. Mr·.

SpeakE!r, I haVE! an intE!InE:1S t :in l .:hc~ fores-1-: :i.nc:lust.r·y, ·i.l·.:sr:~lf, in forestry generally speaking, hdv i.ng bcH,11'l bor·n 'i.n a community, for example, 1/Jh'ich I.~Jas a J.ogg:ing c omrnu rd. t. y , wh ~~I" c,1 1fl y f <.·l 1:: h C.;! r· IAJO 1n b":! cl for a pulp and paper company in thosE~ days, BOIAiat.er, OV(·>.r' in Howley. MR. TULK: Is lhat where you were born? MR. SIMMS: Tha +-. ·i. s wh ~H'C'! T IAJr.< s born, in Howley, YE!S.

TI1EH1, having I:HHHl r· a J. s c,1 d J. n Co r· n r::! r· 11 r· o o k , I).J h (;! r· E! there is a rnajor forest related i.nd11s+.:r·y IAJhich <:!tHH'ybody is farnilJ.ar with, IAihich has had H:.s ups •Hlc:l doiAJn~>, I ~;uppos~'!, b11 t rnor·e r'E:1cent1y it is up, I bE!l:iE!VI'::1 -·thE! flf~opl.r.~ of l:ho Cor·nur· rlr·ook a1"(~(:'1 No. 39 R2081

are very positive about that - and then having spent the last number 0 r y e ijl r s ' bAJ e 1'1 t. .Y .Y !.-:! <:lr' ~ u r· s 0 -i. n Grand Falls, again another major pulp and paper t.own, I havc-i! SOIIH-i! interest and I have some knowledge T suppose, not: a l.ol: ..

T. ;:,,rn not. suggesting that I have more than rnernber·s oppos .. i i':co~, but T hdVf~ sorne know] cc~dge and I certainJ.y have an i. ntHrt-i!st .. ~:; o +: h .. i. s p H I" 1'. :i. c ul. ;:·\ I" r· r~ s o lu i·: ... i. o n Pncoru·agE:~s me whE:Hl J sc-i!e and h~:!ar Fr· orn rn~:!trlb H r· !> o p po !; -i.l: t~ 1'. h• .~ l·. t h ro~ ':J i:ll"e pr"E~Pr..lr'E:!d to lE:~nd thE!ir· onCOUY'e\9f~lllC,11'lC I:O l::hr;! (]OI)f~i"nlflc~nt Sl) ·r hi~. t thE~ y IAI:i ] ] C 0 n ·U. n lH~ t 0 t Y' y t 0 c:if~vel . op ,:·\ fo1"~~s 1·. r·~~l.d U~d "i.ndtiS'i'.I"Y :in I e~br·ador·, r·athE!r than getting 11p i'\nd c:r· i l:.:ic"LzE:1 r:~nd condr'!tnn'i.ng the government.

I am delighted to hear all. Hbout that. k i.nd of approach frorn the members o p p o s i. t·. e . I 1'. i. s v C'! r· y i 1 n p or· tan 1~ , Mr . SpeakE!r. W i t h r· e s p c;! c t ~ -. o L a b r· ad o r· , M t' . SpeakE!r', to ptJt it in perspecUve, f i r s t of a l1 , i. t. i. s i rn p o r· t.c:t n t. t h a t. members have some knowledge about the Forest resource in Labrador, the cur·rent situation, if you wish. As a for•1ner rn·i.rri.sh~r. obviously I had many occasions to g o 1·: o 1.. a b r· <..~ d o r' , d n d n o t. o n 1. y I: o the Goose Bay Happy Valley ChtH'Ch i.ll dt'(,~r:\. I IAh:u; r~J.~>o on thf'!

Coast of Labrador iHld further· 1\J o r· 1': h , C h 1.1 r· c h i. l J. F ;:·\ ll ~; d n d .i. n i". h c;! Labr·ador· WE:'St -· Wabush area. In r <.·\ c L , ·Uw r' c,~ -i. s l> o rrrc~ For· c·'! s t: t' y poh:1 1TI:.'iciJ, bcc11'ieVE:1 'i L or· not. up i. n l.:h<:\1.: par•l ·.i. cul.t:~r' ai"Od. ~)o I had occasion to v:Jsit the"! L.i'.lbr·ador· f>r:'' r' 1.: oF 1: hE~ P r· o 1ri. n c P on a nt.IHli:HH' of occasions, Mr·. SpE:~al<er·, and I could Sf~P For Htysol.f' t.hH po'i':f~nl·.:-i.ctl.. I n ad d ·i. I: i. o n t:. o +: h <'1. l: , b E~ -i. n g t. h E:! minister I had occasion to talk to p eo p 1 E!

L•.J h o lAJ E! r· e i n t E! r· o s t ('! d :i n developing sorne sort of forest L2082 May 1.8, 19B8 Vol. XL related industry in Labrador, interested parties, incidentally, not only from Newfoundl~nd and Labrador but also from other parts of Can<itdi:t, and, indr:~E~d. ft"oi'n outside the country of Canada, partlc:ularJy the Scandinavian countries. I talked to peopJ.c;! Fl"orn F'i.nland c:\nd StAJt;!dC'!n IAJho hdVE! had an 'interest in developing a f o t' ,.~ s 1·. r· y r· tc~ l. ;;) t: fi! d i. n d Ll s t r· y i n Labr·ador.

Af-I:EH' doing thEdr own stud:iE!S Ol" i.·\!>Src~S!>fiH'!I'll:s or· l>IH'Vf:!y~;. nne th :i. ng Li'wy alJ did lAJas cornE! to the sarrtE:! ~ ~ onc;1tt~d. on, l.hd ·l·. · i:hr~ IAJOod f · i.bt"E~ .in Labrador· J.s, without qUE!Stion and IAJ:i.l:holll·: doubt, l·. hc·~ I:H:!S-1:'. IAJOod f ·i.bl"E' in thE! IAJorld, absoJ.utely tl'tc"! bE:!St.

IAJOOd f'i.br·~~ b'l,i,.\Ci< spr'UCf:! t:hc:1 best black spruce in the world. ~3 o t 1'1 ( :~' L "i. s o n l::! d -L f ·f :L c u l. 1::. 'J J o n e pr·obJ.ern thE!Y do not have to faCE!, anybody IAJho tn:igh L·. bf~ :i.n · l · : ~:!r·r::!S l'.:tc!d in developing a forest related .in d 1.1 s t r· y 1:·. hE! r· c.;! . Mr. Speaker, thE! forest rE!Source J.n Labr·;~dor, Lh~~ to tal ar·c,1a thE!l~e is 290,000 squarE! kilomE!tres, and t.her'(-i! :i.s an under·devel.opr:!cl For·E:!S t resource there greater than the r· c-i! s out' c E~ on t. h c.;! t. o t. i'\ 1 I s 1 an cl portion of thE!

Province -·- great:E!r than +:hf~ ·l·.oi':.i.'ll. lsl.;>,nd por·t ·i.on oF the Prov:ince has, approx:irnatc:dy 331J.,000 Ct.tbi.c HlC-:!L r'c'!~; of !AIOOd. T. t~Jo u l d l: i. k c'! 1'. o 1:: h <Hl k H i. s H on o t.rr·· for his note reminding me to stick ·1: 0 1:. h lc~ S II b j f;! C 1.: . M r· . S p P r:'\ k P r· , o n r~ o f t h f;! t. h :i n g s t h a t n E! E:! d s t o b Cc' cl o n E:1 , o f c o lH' s c;! , :i.n i·.h~~ dovc·:!l.opnwn+: of <:'1 for·c::!st rnE:~l<:lted 'industr·y in Labrador, J.s l'.o O'Jer·c:ouro ti·H:! pt"obl.Ewts and difficulties that exist in that area or our Province.

T h c:~ t' c:~ d t' f:! understand No. 39 SOITtcc~ plans from a undE!rt.~Jay, I conve•rsat:ion R2082

w:i th Minister of Forest Rf~SOIH'cr;!s, Lo g(;!'l·. i.nl :o d mon~ a g g r· Co~ s ~;j v e etc c e s s r· o ad pI" o g r· a rum E! 1..11 ITi. c h i. s b a d l. y n f!!f~ d r"! d . B 1.1 '1-. L h 0 poh~ nt ia] :is there to do a number of l:h "i. ng s d s ··i.d ~~ from 1.: hr:! c I"~~ c:1 1·. '.'i.o n of jobs to hcH'V<c~st that OVE:H'rnat:ure IAJ o o d , ·J n pH r· 1·. ·J c u J. d r· , 1··. h d i: n ~ :~ f ~ d s ·1·. o I:Ho! har·v<c~sted.

One of the biggest di.ff.-i.cul.Li.es they have in the case of the Happy V i!ll.l. ~~ y - Goo s r- ~ Bay d r· ro~ '", IMh "i. c h the member for• Nn~ krwpi ,.,nul rl hP f';:.nnil .. i;·~r· I•Jit·h I•IOIJ .ld hr'! i'lr.r.P~~il: dlify to t-he Sn11t · hsidE1 of t h e C h u r· c lri. 1.1 R -i v (·H' , t•J I'HH' e f ul.l y 66 per cent of the total voJume of IAJood l.'i.es. That is a ser"i.ous problem for any potential development, for any future dE:welopment. But the dE!prlrtment has slotAJly bE!EHl doing rnor·~~.

W"i. l:h rE:~sp~H: 'l: i".O sJlviculture, they have a small 91"~>.nnhOI.ISO op~H'at · i Orl ti·l!H'C,1 1 think th~<:1y hc~vt.~ four gr'E:HHlhouses and r.1 small nurs~H'Y o~HH'i!li·.-i.on there . They are doj ng et bit more "i. n i.•1 c c: H s !) t ' () r:1 c:l s I d n d I: h (,~ y r'l r' (~ doJng some other cone collectjon wo r· !< uri.l·. h I: I·H:! j .:~ c k p "i. rH:1 f r· o 111 I. a b r ad o r· I a s J . u n d e r s l a n d i t . I n 1·:he nurs~H'Y 'i.n Woodd,!lle, -i.n par·U culiH', is 1..uh~H'e thE!Y ar·<;! t-.r· y -L n g to ntH' 1.: tH' e 'i. 1: , 'i F yo 1.1 • lAid n 1: .

So, th~:~y ar·e doi.ng all. of 'i':hos~~ things . But Labrador has a s 'i.zeablE! r·esour·ce HS i.t. .i.s . Tn any evenll siJviculture is not their major need at this particular point in time, although s i 1 v :i. c u 1 l:.lH' <:~ n e e d s t o b e c a r-r i. e:~ d on, as thE! member for Bonavista North pointed o11i:. Mr·. Sp(c~i3.ker, giVE!I'l l·:hE!

VHS t. al"~: !d of tho coast of Labrador I j t rn:i.ght hP intPrPs~ing tn nn~P thAt ~hP ·1-n·t-nl t•Jnnd unltJHit<-' ort t hP r.on<>t of I "' b r· r-H'I n r· : r'l l +· h () 1.1<~ h ·i I· i •; d ·i F f -j (~ Ill 1- I ?08 3 May lH, 1988 Vol XL to ascertain specifically and c l. c,~ iii r· l. y , · i. !; n s ·1 ... :i. rna I: c,1 d 1.: o E! x c (;! (~ d that of ·Uw Happy Vall.ey ·-· GooSE! fl r:~ y d r· ~~ d t·.: h C· ~ c 0 a s t: () f I. d b r· c:1 cl 0 t' -· which is rather interesting . I I~JdS 1'101.: f1.1l.l.y r:·11.o~JrH'f:! of t:hat ·. myself, to tell. you the truth. MR.

FUREY : Your Pr<o!SS Seci"Ed:ary dJd that up for· y o 1.1 , d "i. d h c-:1 ? MR. SIMMS: Nn nn . thi c; i c; frnm l-lr'ln~Flrd T-F f· hr-'! hfln tnPmbr;or h;·~d l .. hr.~ ·intf.:.r•r-•<.:;t he could have gotten Uw spE!E!Ches f r· o rn 1. as t ~~ C:1 d rHo~ s cl a y :i n t: h e H o u s e of Assembly on this very issue; t.he:~se k:i.nds ' of points I~.JEH'e mad(~ at that time. I have an :interest: in LhE~ l:.op·.'i.c so I rE:~ad th<'! spE!(;!ChE!S, believe it or not, usualJy over here during Question Period, bE!Cause thE!rE! is not much condng o v H r· ··i. n q 1.1 n ~; 1'. 'i. u n s .

Mt'. : ' ifH: !dk<,~r·, t~H~ dl.so s hutl1d bE! Cli..UaJ"e that therE! i.H' E! some ;:1•:1:.:i. lJ·i.l : · i.r,~!; ongoing . w~:! 1~Jot.1l.d no1:. anybody to think therE! art:! no f 0 r· r~ S l: t' H 1. a hHI r:'l C i". 'i. lJ'i. -1-. "i.e S L1 n dE! I''IAJCI y in Labrador, because there are. Mosl'. or 1-.hem, T d91"EH-:!, i:H'i':' directed in another area, export pu1p 'i.n p;,lt'Li.c:lll.dr', w"i.l·:h sorn<'! of the operations up there.

I I" l':Hflf~ HI I:) 1':1t' I~J h P n 'f: IAkU> lfl:i. n .i S 1': e r' issuing permits to Eastern Wood ii;:u·v~~s hH'!>, I bc.~J.i.~~~H~, IAJho hr.HJU a five-year commitment right: now . I u n d e t' s l: a n d i: h e y h r.w e b <~ e n h a v -:1 n g some difficuJ.ties gE1U:ing off thE! gr·ound, butT also und(o!r·st.and, from recent conversations I had with the minister, that that operation, Eastern Wood Hmrv~:~s l:c;1r·s, intends l:o expc:~nd and improve over their production of 1 1:1 s i:: y ~~ m r· .

"l"hPy do ~?.ngagP i'l l'll . lfllb~H' uf p<;!ople, t·hpy h ·i rP r'l f';:.:l'i r n11mhr.:-r nf !='l~"'n!=ll P: i·hf-'r'P i·lr'P ·inhs r•pl;~ · l · r.:•d l .. n ·iJ- ... -·· No . 3 9 R2083

They also sub-contract, if you 1~1ant, to some of the smaller oper·ator·s around the art,~i::J., small Jocal sawmillers. So it is a be n e f i t , the ki n d of t: h i. n g t hat i s happening with export pulp. The thing you always haue to be concerned about is not giuing away too much of 1::11<::~ pu1p so you wi.l. l not be able to encourage or entice some opt:H'ator· to coulC,~ in l:o put c:l larger forestry related operation I~ h(~ I"B. ft.;!rpstr'd i.s anothr.~r· opf;!r'dl . i.on l':hal :: is ct relatiueJy new entrant to l::hr!il: r:·1r'r,1d.

Th<,11J ht.-11Jt,1 o:-1lso b('!f'!l'l J nuoJ ued in the E:'Xpor·t pulpwood ITltH'kH 1: dnd, T. und<H'S l:r:Hld d'l: 'i:hr,1 p 1n () s ('!I' I t I. i me , t h E:1 y h a d a o n c::1 ·- y e a r ~H~ r· nd. :·~ b u 1:: 1': h (~ 1J i n hHl r:l 1·. o g f~ L oper~tions under way again, if 1:: h c ·~ y h '" \J t,1 no I: '" l. r· <,1 a c:l y s 1·: .:11" 1': f:! d . MR. I<EI..LAND: (Tnc.udibh1) dur·:i.ng the Auturnn . Yes. They are an opE:~ration that came fr·om Central Newfoundland somewhere, rather than around th(~ Gander area somewhere.

I thank Your· Hono1Jr for another· note reminding me to keep to the topic and not to stray too far. ThP.r'r-> i'lrr.o ni-hHr r~nlmnPt''C'ii'll <;r.ll>lrnill npPrniinnc; ·in r.ooc;p Ri=IY. ;;~11 kinrlc; of them, T. giH~ss; d l.ol ... oF Blllal.l. onE:!S. The hon. TnE!mbE!Y' would be tHH'Y fatni .l..i.ar IAJ'i. l: h i.t. And t:hc·:1r'("~ 'is, I und€:H'stand, sorne interest alr~E~r·:1dy bt~tng sho:AJn . by o!'.·.h,· :!;·~ oper·atul"!' :in ' the same f'ic->.Jd E:!xpor·'l: pul.p.

T. dill no 1: go·i .ng ·l·.o say tAJho thE-~ company :i!; at th:is S 1:. r~\ 9 r;! , 0 b IJ:i. o 1.1 S l.y , b r· ~ r: .:·11 I ~; 0 1". h 0 S r~ discussions ~re still ongoing. (.)nyiA.Iay, Ml". Sp€:1~ker·, I tJ.Jant to sum u p , s 'i. n c f!! I h "' IH~ o n l. 1J f ·i. lH! rrri. n 1.1 h:! s 1n<-:1rrta::i ning, by g:iuing f.ln oueruieiAJ, f'i.r·st: of all., of I~JI'ldl" I haiH;! just L2084· May 18, 1988 Uol XL b Hen t r· y .i. n g to s .:'\ 1J ·i. n 1. E?. ad t n g up to my final comments about the pol~en'l:.ial. for· larger• opC::1ratiun~.

The woods operations currently in Labr·ador hau"'~ i'll'l <,~st:i.matecl ualue, I guess, of about $1.5 miJ.ljon to Lh<-?. local <,1conolrt1J 'i.n L.abr·aclor. Now, that inc] udE!S a] 1 of L.i.~br·i'ldor, nol~ ju~;t Happy Valley Goose Bay. $1.5 million is about the ualue of t. h <,~ for· c·:! s ·1·. I" f~ l. dl': o d o p p or· t.u n :i. t. ·i. ('! s to the economy of Labrador. ThE! 1~1or·k fot•c:c·~ obiJ-i.ousl.y Fl . ucl':. ui~l:E'!S, because of thE! SE!i:~sonal.:ity of l:.hE! i: n d 1 1 s 1: r· IJ , b 1 1 I: "' ny 1~1 h f!!

I'' f~ F r· o 1 n ~) 0 1'.: o lSO pc-:1opJe ar·e employ<,~d tn for'E!St r· r·!! l. a 1·. ·f'! d o p r'! r· d I: :i. o n !; o f s o 111 r·~ s o I" 1:'. o r· another throughout Goose Bay . Bt~t. in 1988, the expc;!ctati .on '.is l·.hr:'l 1: th 'i.s c:ou 'ld i . ncr· f~<;IS( !! t:o possibly $3 rn.illion to $4· rnil.1:.Lon ~~Jor·t:h l·.o I·. he (;!conorny, and, obuiously, 200 to 250 jobs a s opposr:?.d to 50 to 1.~)0.

So HlC'!rC~ are some existing initiatives underway, and work underway and projects underway that are aJready hel.p ·'i.ng l':o boost . the <:lconorny of the Labrador arE!a from for~~st related industries. poi':C::~nt..i.al for indus t r·i F! s i n 1- ht=1 c; i'llllrni 1 'l·i l'lC,:J '~'"r-,,~ Tn lllli'lbiiSh - I ;~hr·<·ldor• r. -i l .. y , T unrlPrc;trtnrl thP.rP -j.; an opc=!rator 1.1.1 h o .. i. s IJ r,~ r· 1J :i. n 1··. <;! r· c"1 s t. E~ d t n establishing a sizable satAJmiJ.l OfH:H'<:'lH.on, IAJ~l"i . ch IAJould bt.~ good for· the l...abr·ador· part of thE!

Pr·ouinc:E! r:1 n d ·!'. h i:t 1.: p d r· !'. o f '!'. h H f'! c o no I'll y . B 1 1 t the issue that has alt~Ji:lys bet:!l'l -1: .::~1. !< ~-=! c1 db o 11 1:. , r or· 1·: h ~~ 1 i'l ~, t c o u P 1 E! of yE:~ars, has bc,~en t.:hE! :issuE• oF 1·. t' IJ . i. 11 9 1: 0 d C·~ \) H ·1 0 p d lrlll C h 1. i:H' 9 E:H' jndustry. First, thE!r'e 1.1.1as l:: hE! ins l...:uli: fllllp ~>r·opos.:-~1. l;lh·i ch lAJdS dE!UE:1lopc,H:I by Modo ChE!TTIE!t:ics, I 1 ... h:i.nk I~JdS UH~ l'ldiW~ of l".h~~ co1npany, who had a patent on that p a r· t. -i. r: ul. a r· p r· o c <;! s s , ·.'i. n s 1.: i:·1 n 1:: p u1 p . No. 39 R2084

They thc.;!n tr·:i.~:.~d i':.o 'i.ntf~Y'f~!;l·. ot.ht-:!r' Scandinavian interests jn df~Vf~l.op'ing dn "i.nsl:;:-lnl'. p11lp opC:H'at·.i.on the,H'e"'. In fact, lhe,~ ldr'gr~s l.: pulp ,:Hld papHr ' cornpdny :i.n F:i.n]and l..r.Jc~s thf~ corupany Lha t sho1~H~d "i.nl:r'!r'f~~;l'., dnci J. f T l"(·~rnr,Hnb(:!l" ·t l·1f~ I'ICll'llf'!, I be-:!1..-i E:~ve:~ :it 1..r.1as En so ·-· Gul: t.·i. c,~ i ~ . r~R. Furn:v: llllhat? Mf~. SIMMS: F. n s o G u t. L .i. C.;! 1: .

T h e y 1..r.1 fH' r-:! v c,~ I" y , very interested in Laking over th-Ls ins !:ant pulp pr·ocf.~ss !':hat had been developed by Modo Chc~met. i.cs, r:~nd hopc-?.ful.ly -l:ht,~y rn~:~y st-ill hauP. i'ln int·P.rPc;t . The pr•nblr-'ITI illi'1<:; l·hpy hr:.d di ·f-f ·ir11ll·y ,,,; ·th t.h1,, .. i r· crJrr·enry ·in l"hPi r nr,,n coun 1-:r·y. MR. SIMMONS : Who we~ !lnE:' they? Ml~. STMMS: Who Wi'..lS l..r.Jhat? MR. STMMONS : Th:i.s cornpr'lny . r'1R. SIMMS: A F:i nn:i s h pu] p and papt~ln company, F. n s o G 1.1 1·. z. i 1:'! 1·. .

T h ~-~ y i:l r· r~ no 1:-. lnH]Cite,~d to us, I can '!:ell lh<-?. hon. lllf~lnbE!r thdl: . r. do nul ·. l·.: lri .nk 1·:1-u,~y ~..lin 0. I an

I) IAJa I) . M r· . S p e i71 k e r· , t h a 1-: i. s l..r.J h ti! r ~-~ 1:: h -:1 ·1·. proposal came about and what ht:tppt"!nf:~cl IAJas l·:hc"!r'cO! I.A.JdS r!l df~lmy, Ol" a stop, I guess, in their inte!rE!St b e c a u s e o f 1:: h e "i. r· c u r· r· e,~ n c y p r· o b J. e rn s in their ot.un country. Subsequent to thmt, th1::~ govl-?.r·nrne,~nt. and the-:! Departments of Forestry and Dev~~loprnE!I'lt, 'in par·t.icul.r.lr', IAii~nt:ed to try to encourage somebody else, so we held t.o look alsel.o~JI·Hn·c,~ :i.n North America.

There was a C a n a cH a n c: o rn p a n y '""' ~l'L c h h c:~ d r:·\ l o o k l.208S May 18, 1988 Vol XI.. at tha feasibility of developing some forest related industry. We t. Y' "i. f~ d t 0 g f~ t 1:. h f:! HI J. n 1--. C:~ I" C;! S l--. e;! d i rl i:.he instant pulp pr'oCE!SS, but :i.t. I: 1 1 r· n e d o 1.d: i: h .:-1 1.: I: ll o y r..r.w I" e:~ lfl o r· e interes te,~d in thE! pc:d:E!nt:ial for a p11lp i:lnd p;,lpr:!l" rwi."'.l.. OF cour·sr::•, we al1 knoiAJ tl'lE!rE! ai"E! a 1ol: of d 'i. f f 'i. c u 1 L'i H s "' s s o c::i. R h:! d 1..r.J"i.

H1 1-.: h a 1:: ldncl of an ope1nat:J on: the;! capi l:.al 1: o s L fa c hH' , l:r' i'l n s p or· t a 1-.·: i. o n p r· o b 1 ern s , t h E! i rn p r o v E! rn E! I' I t: s t: h a t: i'l r' o n c-~ o d E~ d I: o t:'t c: c: c,~ s s r· o i'l d s 1~1 n cl bridges, docking facilities, all of 1-: h o s ~~ k ·.-i. n d s of 1:: h .i. n g s a I" E! concerns. One other interesting concern is, that in that area there are not enough trained loggers. That was one of the +·hinge; thr~t rrtrnP n11 ·~ · n-f ~-hr.• '' 1.1 r u I·' IJ '' . MR . STMMOJ\IS · They would have to be brought in . MR.

SIMMS: Yes, ti1C·)IJ IAJould havf~ to br':i .ng thorn up Fr·orn 1-.1-H:! I:slc:1nd l:o IAJOI"k i.n l·_h(:! area. But if you can dovelop t h (:! s (~ s ti\l~mri .l l. o p or· c:t i·. J. on s , CJ e 1-: people in the woods harvesting and ~;o on, l.oqg'i.ng, i·.hHn rnaybE• t:.hr::•y will be able 1-:o develop a 1~10 r· k for · c: ,,~ s o H1o.~ I: <HlP d r:-1 y , IAJhenever and if a major· u n d f;! r· 1·. i:·l !< ·i. n g g ~'! 1·. ~; un d (:! r·1~li:-l y -- MR. ST.MMOI\JS: ThE!rE! ar'E! a lot of loggE!lns on the Island IAJho rH'!f'!d l..r.Jor·k. MR. SIMMS : A b so l.u t: r,~ 1 y .

T a rr1 v l;! r· y f c~11n .i.1 i a r· with it. Perhaps more familiar 1·: han L he h o n . m c-:'l rn be,' r· , 1~1 s 1:~ rna 1.: 1: E! r of fact. I think I lAJould bE! safe in say.-i.ng t:ht:li:. T l·:h-i. nk I <'lin. I would put my money on the line IAI"i 1:: h h ::i. rn . I ~~ 1r1 rncH ' co?. cor· r· (,1 c 1:. abo u t that Lhan thE! hon. rrH:!rnbE!I" lAJClS t.hE! ol-:hc,~l" dmy IAJhf'!l'l ht'! t:dlk('!d about. wrinkled cucumbers . No. 39 R2085 .·

AnyiJJr:ty, Mr·. ~3FH~al<er·, I gur,1ss my time is just about up. I simply want to scty that I want to commonrl my colleague, the member for St . J o h n 1 s E a s t E x t c,H' n , who , a s I said, Js H ne1.1J ITIE!mber and has an i n l.: e r c->. s t: t n t. h .i s a r· c;! a , e v c,~ n L h o u g h his background is fisheries, on h r· ·i n g ·i n g ·i n 1- lri s r• r-' s o 1 1 1 t i n n .

T i'lfn Pnr.otlr'FJgF!rl by t·hp r.ommPnt · c: from most members opposite with respect to their intent to support this r· e sol. u 1·: i. on t.: o g i. v €:1 1:: h c,~ go v E! t' n rn f.! n i:. the encouragement and support it n c,1 ~::~ cl s 1·: o d e t) ~~ 1. o p r:·l f o r· ~:! s 1-. r• 1':1 l. a 1··. ~ : ! d J n d u s t r y :i n Lab r· ado r· . T h a n I< you , Mr·. ~)pc,~dl<c· : !r'. SOMF HON. r~F.r...,BEF~:3: 1-l~~iH', hE:HH'!

M I~ . ~3 P f A I< F.: R ( C t' c~ (:~ n :i. n g ) : BE:~foi"C->. r·~:H: ogn:l ;;ing tht~ hon. rn~~rnbE:1r for· l'lLit'9'·'!0 ·- 13•:·\y d 1 F~; potr·, T IAJOIIl d J.·.i.l<e t:o IAH~lcorne t:o th:is hon. House Mayor· RHX rJJ .. ~u· ·.l·lf~IAJS, COIII'lC'.i.l.l.or· Newman Rarllett, Councillor John C 1.1 rn b ~~ n , "' n d T o 1,1.1 n M a n a g r-~ r· , C Co! n c,~ King, from the town of Grand Bank. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H e a r· , h e a r· ! MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the member for Burgee Bay d 1 F.spoir. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, het-:lr! MR. GILBF.RT: Thank you, Min. Speaker . Mr .

Speaker, a s I stand in the H o us ~~ 1-. o c: on s "i. d c.;! r 1: h i. s t' <'! s o l.11 1: :i. on put for·IAJal"d by the rnc;!ITJber· for· St. John 1 s F.c·\sl: Fxl'.r;!l"n (Mr•. f>;H•sons), :il j~; hard not to suppor·t it b f:! c d 1 1 !> t:! ·i. I: d "i. d no 1·. ~ ; ,,, IJ "' n y I: 11 J n g . Wh~~n you hi'.!VE:1 to stand IAril..h l"t'<Jf.li"d l·n l·ho•ll· ·i-1· ' f<~ •'\ IJC'>r'y IAH'!r·lk l"f"! !; nlu + -j nn i'd ·:i r !; hf~ S 1- 1.2086 May 18, 1988 Vol XL. fl u 1.: , T s u p p o s e , IAJ h e n y o u I~ a I< e J n t: o consideration that I heard the me rn b c,H' f o r· R cit ll. c-:1 v u e ( M r· .

C a 11 r~

n) say the other day that when he crossed the House he took his rE!SOlution with hirn and hE• IJ.JantE!d t.o use it. , but, lhG!n he sa·.i.d ht?. could not:, bE! Cause thE!IJ SE!nt dniAJn fr·nrn HH,~ Pr·Hrn·i (cH' 1 s of'f ·i CP iH lrl 1- o 1 rl h·im thF• rF!<;Oli.Jtion hr-• 1'1Fid r.n IIC:P A J. 1-.·. h o 1.1 g h 1:: h. i s i s P r· ·i \1 '" 1- 1'- M H rn h '"' r c.; 1 Day, it SeE!ITIS that the mc;!rnbE!r for R c'! J. l ~ : ! v u e 1-. o 1. d u s (,~ x a c t.: J. y IJ.Ji'1 i :~ t i -t. is.

Prtvate rnEHnbers haVE! v~H'Y l."i.l-.i··.l.p to do aboul·· . i. t. and t~hE! resolutions are developed in the P r· r-~ rn :i. e r· 1 s o f f J. c r,1 . So -L -1:: lA I o ul d certainly seem to me - AN HON . MEMBER : ( :r. n ,,, 1 1 d J b l. H ) ~; p r· u n q . MR. GIL.BF.~T: Yl:!~)' l(k\ljbH -j L Sflr'lll'l9 f' Y' O III Premier 1 s office . It LJJOUld SE!E!ITI lo ITH~ tha L lh ::i. s I"~~ s o l. ui". :i o n IJ.J o ul d h r:l v ~:! I: o h a v r:~ b ~:! ('! n made up by somebody who was trying l:.o s"'Y noUJ'i.ng and s t.:i.ll. bE! able to pat hjrnself' on the back for saying nothing.

Th ·ls is exactly what this resolution has done. It states I 11

WHEREAS the! provincia] government. has considerable success in strengthening the for·~~s t i.ndu -sl:r·y on the Isl.and of Newfoundland through mill upgr·ad ·i.ng and si.l.v:i.Ciiltur·c'!. 11 I intE!nd to get int:o that a bit l. i'l 1 ... f'! r· . 1 ''t rn '' 1.1 r· f~ 1-.: h ~:! p r· f:! v i o u s speaker, the former Minister of For·c-~s l r·y 1 I.LJ"i. .l J. 1:)(! awrH'r-:! oF so1r1e crF thE:1 points that tAI€:1 can makE:! on 1-:iri. s . T h fH' ,. ~ 1. :~ .:~ 'H'! s i'l l cd·: 1·: o be dE:~sir·ed. I Lh:i.nk Lo ~;::i.ngl.E! out l...abracloi" and ~; .:-\ Y , 1 I~JH I~J;•\ i'l I• l·n dc·'!llf'!-1 np l··hr'! fnr·H~t i nduc: l·r·y ·in I nhr•;H ·Inr· 1 T No. 39 R2086

fores·t-. To me indus try in :it would the;! be HICc1i':\nJngful. Y'tc1solui"..i.on resolution encompassed t:. h <c1 for·~~ s L i. n d l.l 5 f: r· y PI"CHri J'IC(~. Prov inc<-?.. a more 'i. F t.hc.:! d~~veloptng "i. n 1-. hf~ Thr,1 F·i.ndl t'l·~sol , \Jf~ ~~'"''' t hdi: Uds hon. House~ go on r'E!COrd as (:1 n 1: ocwag "i. ng i: hr,1 go IJfH' niiiiHJI : 1: o conti nuc~ in its t~fful"t.s t:o bring a FcH'r'!Si: 'i.ndusl ... t'IJ l:o l.r:-l~n·ador· .

T utouJd say :if wc,1 had that stating 'To cont:'irlllf:! 'i.n i. h; c·=!ffcH'h; 'l:o br·:ing a for·est tndust·ry t.o the Pr·ovi.ncc. :! oF 1\](~IAJFoundli:·\nd r:ll'ld Labrador,' I would be much more happy l:o SfH~t::lk on i.t and l-.o makr::! some recomm~ndations, which I "i.nt:c,1nd t.o do, as 1-.o I.Uhi'lt. sho1 .1l.cl happen to the forest industry in t. h i s P r· b v J n c e . I l.istc ,1nE•d l.ast IAJCc1t;!l< t.o t:hc,1 Minister· of For~1st ResourCE!S (Mr. R. Ayl.war·

d) wh~Hl hf:! talked about the forest industry in Labrador. He L•.Jas able to t·:aJ.k .:.,bout. the~ fire-fighting operations in I. a b r· ado r· . T I·H,11J h a v c,1 s c:wmli ll. i. n g o n a J ocal bas:j s and they havt:1 some export wood. They Rlso haue d smaJ J silviculture operation going j.n GOO!)!~ f3r·\y. Thr.\'1: ·i. s \Jr~r·y corurnt:H1dabJ E'!. ~wt: the wl'lolE:~ forest L n d 1 1 s 1.: r' 1J ·i. n l. h 'L s P r· o IJ :i. n c r~ h <:\ s L o i:JP l.CJokc-!d c~t as a whoJe, not ~; f'! g trll·'! n t· c·~ d , !;Ortlfd h·i ng oF i.l:. dl.l " h011qh ahntl t. ·thE:1 IAJP Hill!> I· l.abl"ador do part T h <.;!

F o I"HH'! r· r"l"i. n i. s h:H' of For· as 1: r· y got up and talked about Lhe potant"i.al. of the Forest industry in Labrador. I wouJd tell him t. he r· e 1. s d p o +.: (:~ n l":. i a 1 F o r' l.: h <.;! forest industry in the complete Prov ·oi. nce. He tal.l<r,~d about : l::he ne1.o~J h~chnology, the instant puJ.p. WhE!n I hc,1ar· that: goVE!rnmc;!nt. of any new technology, instant pul.p, .i.l: broi.ngs to talk ] ikE! mind L2087 May 18, 1988 Vol XL the technology that we are just seeing the benefits of now, the S p I" u n g o p E~ r' a t·: :i o n .i. n M o u n t P <~ a r· 1 .

That was the new technology the Pt'E~mi. fH' sd:i.d t~Jas dc.;!VC;!l.opE!d .i n Dis nE!IJ World. R y Ll·w l~k\ y 1.. h !:'! Hli:\r' !< f'! L ·i. n g i. !> q o i. n g , I thtnk Mickey Mouse rnust be doing Lhcc1 ffldt'kHI :"i.ng for· hi.111 l:oo . SOMF liON. ~'IEMB E RS : HE:~ar, hear! Mf~. GILBFRT: T c ,:-, n d s s u I" f'! y o 1.1 r' :i. g h 1:'. n (IIAJ 1'.: h i'l t: i l:. is not a business decision they d f' (c~ m r:\ k "i, 1'1 9 '1:: 0 5 ~~ l J. C I I C 1.1 l'n b ("! I'' S 1::- 0 r• half the cost in Nova Scotia. That ·i. s not:. d good, sound marketing process.

I am afraid when I hear hon . l'rlf:~lnbc"!r's opposJ ·t.c,1 +:al.k about: nei.1J technology. I really worry. Anyhow, the forest industry in Nc,~IAJfoundl.;:;~.nd, for· thE:! b<:11'lE!f:l 1:. of members opposite, is the second lr'H'9f~S I~ f~HiployfH' ·."i.n l:ho Pr·ov .. i.ncc,~. We have a forE!St ar·ea about thrE!e d l'l d h r.l l. f t "i. ffH~ S 1·. h f~ S i .. b~ 0 f 1\.1 (''IAJ Brunswick, and tht.'lt is :incJ.ud'ing l:h1·~ whole~ Pt'OIJ"i. nc'~. WhHn T look at tl1e forE!S'l :1 ndus try, I considE•In l.i:lbr·r:~dor· t·.o b::! r:-~ pdl"t· . of l·:hi.s Prov:i nee. I do not th"i nk t•JP s hoc tl d s c·'!

P'\1. r'd t· I·'! ·j 1 ... f n 1:: fllc' T !; l. d I'll: I p or· ·I· ·i on oF ., .. h -i_ s Province alone, 27 pc,1r C<'!nt:. of the forest: ~rHr:-1 1n th ·i.s Province is c o n t r o llE! d by P r· i c e -·A bit i b :i ; 3 0 pH r· c ~=! n t by I< l" 1.1 g ~=! r' ; a n d 4·0 p ~'! r· cent is Crown land; with 3 per cc·Hlt pr·:.i.va ·I':E:!liJ Cll.uned. Th.l.s :is an interesting thing I see in thJs Province. If we are going to develop a f o r· f:! s t. 'i. n d 1.1 s L t' y l. n N E!IAJ F o u n d 1 a n d , sornE!thing must bE! dono to put thE! J.and int.o pr·'i.v;:·\I:: E~ l''nl'.:c-:!r'pr·i.sc'! and No . 3 9 R2087

let those people work . We ha~r th:is gover·nrnE:~nt give l:ip ser•vice 1·. o p r· i. tJ '" t (.;! <:~ n 1: (:! 1" p r· t s H ••ll.l i.: h (~ lime. If we are going to do s orne~ l·.hlng IAJ i. 1: h l .: h<'! f o Y'f~ s -1·. .i. ndu s l: r y in Newfoundland, the first s u q g <~ s 1'. "i. on I IAJO u l. d ITli:l k e for· t h (~I'll to do is to privatize the 'indus ·tr·y. Put.: l:.he land 'in th<~ hands of private individuals so they can develop the woodlots.

They could go and sr:~nd l:h<~ Royal Commission to Nova Scotia s ornewh (:~ r<O! 1/Jh c;! r• <.;! t h r:! r c,~ v ~'! r· sf~ 'i. s true of u.Jhat we see in thE! forest tndus l·.r·y h<H't':' Ln NelAJfoundldnd where about 90 per cent of the forE:~ sl: Ln 1\JotJ•'\ Scol ·. i.d i.s contr·olJ ed by private wood] ots. W(~ 90 i.ni :O 1\Jr:~W flt'l.lnSIAJ'i.Ck r:Hld YOU h~ve again ~ very large private OIAJI'HH' Sh "i.p . Sn f. IAJOII1d ~ :: o :·ly l:l't.:-11-. t. hr.d: j s OI'IC:~ of Ol.lr' pi"obl r~rns lll"i ·1- h l·.hr-~ foi·'r:!s l· ·i nc:l11'; l· r·y ·in Nf:!IAifound 'lHnd and o ne'!

Lhat th :i.s goV(!r'l' lHH:~nl:, ·i.nsl'.f~i .-\1:1 of Ldl.!< ·ing c.d:wut t hf~ n<:11ll tech no logy and thE! "i.ns 1·:.:-ln l: .p1.1l.p "'nd t.hi .nras l i.kc! 1:h.:·ll·. , ti1Hy could talk about deveJ oping ,., n .L n d us t: r· y b d s e d on '1:. h c,~ pI" i. v •:·\ ·1". r,~ woodlot. Another interesting statistjc is 90 p~~r· c~~nt: of l::hl;! for·c,~st :Lndust.r·y in Newfoundland is made up of pulp and paper· pr·oductJ.on, 90 P<·H' C<.;! nt of the industry in Newfoundland. It "i. s good th<:tt: IAil.;! haVl'~ a st:r·ong pulp and paper :in Newfoundland and we r·eaJ. ·i.zE! that. 'i.t i.s l: her·e.

It is on~~ of thE! VE!ry fE!IJJ industries in Newfoundland where the Fin~l pi"OCE!!;s:ing is don~~ here. Normally in Newfoundland we have b (·~ I'! n u s E:! d 1·. o s c o o p 'i. n g o 1 1 t . rn :i. n H r· .:-\ 1. s and s E:Hl d :i n g t h c,~ rn off j n the :1. r r alAI for·m i".O bn pr·oducPcl ~;ornHI~Jhl : !l"r:! nl.sH IAI h P I" f~ t- h (·1 S (:~ C 0 n d a r y b f:! n l'1 f '.i. t: S a r• ~:! Found. 011r' F'L~;hrH' " i(:!S I)Jd~; ;,, cla s sJc example of this . There iH'f~ c:ll:h~lnpl ... !, rnadr;! no1~1 l:o c;:H'I"Y on ·····• .

L2088 May 18, 1988 Vol XL :ln Lo l-:h1·~ s 1,~ c ondr.-n·y pr·o c c,~s !> ·i. ng t n fisheries. In NeiAJfoundland. WE:~ l't.:·\

l) I·~ b H I::Hl d I;!JI" ~:! el i: 9 J. V ~H' a IAI m 'j 0 f: our natural resources to let s o rn 1,~ o n ~~ e l. s E?. d r.:> v <-:l 1 .. o p i. t: . P ul p <Ht d paper is one of the few industries IAI her· t:! IAJ c;! t. '" I< r,1 :i. t: F r· o 1 n 1'.·. h e s t: u ITI p and we see it rolling off and in t o the pr:t pr-:l r IAJe a r·f:~ using he r'E! today . rhe interesting thing I have noticed in sorne of thE! comments rnaclcO!- fr·orn mernbc;!n; oppos"i.te ·.is, again, the locked in history +: h e o r· y .

E v c,~ r y o n f~ o f +.: I·H~ 1r1 • a s L h E! y got up, talked again about the C h u r· c lri.l.l F i)\ l.l s g :i. v r,~ diAJa y . T h <:' l:: IAJas thE! on1y con t:ribut:.Jon I l·wal"d I·. I·H~Ifl lflr:·lkl' . Any 1'. Lnl!'! '!:hey g~d·. up to spE!ak in Uris Hous~~ abouL "'n y i: h "i. n g • ·1·. h H y i ·. ·i r~ ·i. t: :i. n I· o Churchill Fal.J.s. As T hrlUE! sa "id ITii'lny ·1- .. irnr:o<; hr,:ofnr'P . 1~1hr:'1·1 T l·h·i1·1k i'·1hniil · ,,,h,,,l.. hi·l' ; happened in the development of the o"i.l. ·i.ndllsl:i ·y ·i. n 1\lf~I,Jfoundldl ' ld, ...

Ln ye<:\rS to C()HIE:~, WhE!I'l IAlt':~ i:H'E! taJ.kJng c'\ b 0 II I: I: h r~ 0 'i.J. "i. l'l d 1.1 S 1:. t' y d 1'1 d i'.: hE! AtlanU .c Accord, I think the nl::lant·Lr: Accor·d IAri.ll. go dOIAln ·i.n history to be a lot bJgger giveaway !::han anythtng that ever carne out of -Churchill Falls . Let me t.el.l you that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hear! MR. GILBERT : No IAI , t h e r e iH' e s om r,~ o 1: h (:1 r 1: h :i. n g s I would like to point out to members oppo st te concerning the Forest indu s try in NeiAJfounclland.

WhE!n I s d y 1\J r;! 1~1 F o 1.1 n d l "' n d • l HH:• l't n 1:: h e Province, Newfoundland and 1 .. .:-li:H'o:\dor·. T IMOI,Il d t' f:!COIIIrTlt':Htd t.o the hon. rne!TnbEH' for Sl: . John 1 s Fl·lsl ·. Exl·pr ·n l·hdl : h o I"Pi'ld l:. h('! r'E!por·t of !::he,~ J~oyal Cornrn:iss:.i.on l·. h<'\1'. I)J, :·l~; Hsl ·. db 'l. ·i . ~;hf~d l:o Took ·i.nl :. o !:he forest Jndustry in thi s Pr·ov .. Lncr~. T 1:. t'f:!por· i·.Hd bac I< ·.i n No. 39 R2088

1981. Ai: I··. hat: t. ·i.JIIC-?., on~~ of UH~ sal. "Len 1:. points of the1 recornrnE1ndations 1.11as lhey Y'C.;!por•b;!C~ thd r. i:ht·H'f;! IAk\S go:lng to be a shor·tage of economic IAJood ... by E~conorni.c wood U·wy nH~;'\nt few t.h~~ pulp and paper :industry e"' r· l . y .-i. n I ~ h t'! n f' x I· c f'! n I· u r· y . T h.:-\ i· 1~1as onE! of th~=>. most irnpor·tanl. r·r:!r:OilllrlfHldaU.ons of Hl.:ll : f?oyal C0111111:is~;jon l"E~FHH't, I tel]. t.h~' lfiHJIIbf:lr' foJ" ~:)I:. John 1 s F:d!;i'. l:':x l·:r:!t'i'l who IAWlS g:lv~~n L·h:i. s r·esolu ·Uon by tJH:! p r• E~ lll"i. C! t' t.

f) p II 'I', f 0 r'IAid I" c:i h rH' 0 . So IA.IE~ knoiA.I :·it IAiiils not: his. WE! I'H'!•:H'd rnc.~mi:H: !t'!> •:·\f:lrwi. l.: how i:h~~y gnt 'l · hc"~j 1n r·~~solution. That is alJ. r· i9 h 1::. AI:. l:.hn pr'C'!~>Hnr. t·.i. mr;1 "i.n l··.hi.s Pl"ov:Jnce, 2 .5 to 30 pe1r cent of thE! NE'!IA.If 0 l.l nd 1. iHld f 0 I"("! S 1:: S a I" E:! rrJ•:\ 1:: 1.1 r• t;! 0 r• over·-rnature1. It must be harVE!StE!d no1.u. That:. is t.hE~ Lh.i.ng. 11\J e h ~~ a r· d 1·: h c->. rn c"! rn b e r f o r· G r· a n d Falls and former Minister of Fore s t r· y ( M r . S i rnm

s) tal. I< i!\ b o u i-. the over-mature wood or mature wood in l .. r~brador·. Well., i::hc·H't->. ·i.s no doubt about it, it is ther·e. B u 1: 2 5 1: o 3 0 pEl r c f~ n I~ of' 1: h ~~ 1~10 o d j n th:i.s Pr·ovince i~; over·-mature or· rnal:r.Jr'(~ and t'E~e\rly to tH~ h,H'Vf'lS h:1d. 11\lh,d·. IAH~ dl"n go ·i.ng 1·. o sc-H~, ·i. f · l:lri . ~; :i.s not l1i'.lrve~;h ~ d, Mr.

Spea.ker, is ·'i, n i'.r'!l'l I ~ o f 'i. f 1: c-:1 on y r· ~ ,,, r· s 1: ·i riH~ 1: hi 1; rlri:.r.'I:Ul"E~ IAIOOcJ iAdl] be->. dE'!Str·oyE!d by ·i.nsec'Ls, bl.or.~.m r:lor,m, or·, also, i.l: :i ~; j 1'1 t h :i S 0 V ~H'- rTI c~ t lH' E~ lA I 0 0 d that l:hr:>. nai:.UJ",~l Fot'E:!s ·l: · f·i.r·::!~; sl:dl"i:. It :is God's IAJay of dojng the:~ job l::hat l'lOIAI tn<:Hl has l.:r!lkfHl OlHH' IAJ"i.l:h 'l hE~ r·eforE1s Lation pi"Ogramrne that "i.s i~dk:i.ng p1t!lcc-~. Th'i.!; ·i.s tAJhf~r·c-~ IAJf:~ a1ne J osing our· ~::~ffort in thE! For·ps 1: ·i.ndus tr·y in Nr·~wfoundlr:\nd .

Another· SpE!aker·, 'indus l:ry L2089 i.n'l':er·c;!s l·.: ·i.ng as far as Ul'i. n 9 , M r· . the forest tn Nc;,wfoundl.and i.s May 18, 1988 Vol XL c o n c erne d , i s U!!:\ 1:: li.O the Newfoundland p e r· c e n t o F forest js 'irnrnliii::I.Jr'f~ <Hld IAJ'i.l.J. no 1·: b~:~ ctvat1ab1El for harvesting for another fifty t·. 0 S J X l y y r~ t:'\r' S , S 0 t. h r.\ t:. rn ~;! f.Hl S that the shortage of economtc wood IAJO i:\t'f! 1 .. •:\l:k ·i.ng dbOIIi: 'is go .. i.ng l::O occur E!iH'ly in l:hE• l'l('!Xt centur·y.

Tn Zonr~ Ol'lf'l, ,.,1nr:l 7onf~ onH for· .t.hr,, technical people is the area where IAJr:! hoH'IJt'!!)i : i · h:~ I~JOOd l'lOIAI for• thE! paper companies, the Central i\Jr.~iAJf.oundl dnd i:H':'!i:\ dnd l·:hi.'l·i··. ~; l:. r· i.p along the SouLh Coast ·J.n LhE! Bay d 1 I·~ s p o 'i. r· a r· o ,,, , L h ·i. s 'i. s '"' h E'll" f'! 1.: h C::' shor·tc\gE' of tAJood is go:i.ng to coJTJ('' fr·ou1. Tl·ds i.s th.r~ c,~c : ono1rri . c zonP wherE! you arE' going to haVE! LI'H'! shor·l·:,: ·\gf:! oF r·~conorntc +·. ·i.rnbE:!r' r::~ar · J.y in the next century.

So, what we have is a fore s t 'i. n d u s 1.: r· y -i. n l:: h (,~ w h o 1. t'! P r· o v i n c c~ that we have not been able to c;1 con o rn .i. c a J l. y u s E~ • T hi. s j. s 1~.1 h y 1'.: he mE!ITJber for St. John's East: Extern t•.Ja s to J. c:l by 1.: h c->. P r ~~ rn·i.

E! r· , t-t s 1:: hE! resolution came dot.~.m fr·orn Lhe Premier's office, 'Make a resolution and say something about l .. abr·ador. 1 It ·i.s ".i.n Li'lbrador· where we fjnd this vast forest /:.hat ''Je hr.1vc,~ d .. l.l. hc~dr'd abor.1t, and we have just heard it from members o p p o s "i. h~ 1~1 h ~nl I -.1-H:! y g n 1: 1.1 p i.Hl d t. ;:d. k abotJt. thE! forest, thE! bl<Hk spl"l.IU~ f:•l i 1 d h OIAJ ·i. 1·. i. ~) ;:-l l) {~ :i.l t~l b l E~ . B u l~. lAJl~~ have never been ab]e to r~ r: on ouri . r: i!tl.l . y h iH' u H s '1'. L h i. s 1~10 o d .

T h :i s lA I h EH' E! o u r· p r· o b 1 Nn :i. ~; c o rrr:i. n g i"t'OIII I~J ' i. • l · ·.h l·.h·i S t'C:!SOUY'CO. Tf l'.hr~ fur·f :!s ·i·. ·i.ndust .: r·y wa~; developed in Ne~~oundland, we IAJoul.d f:i.nd, :·i.nsUH·\f:l of th~~ ?. , 000 to 3,000 people that we have in i.1·., ''If~ cor .1l.d hHtJc,~ 10,000 poople. The first thing that we have go Lo do noJAJ, Ls '"H:! hi:HH'l got 1-.o sl.i:H'l getting this mature wood t:o rna r· k t'! t , o 1·: h c,~ t'IAJ i. ~; f~ ·.i. t·. i s go ·.i n 9 l.: o be destroyed by insE1cts or forE,st f ·i.r· (,~ s ' No. 39 R2089

I hr~dr'd Fol"estr·y 1: 1·11~ f o r'IIIO t' e~drn:i t M·i.ni . ~;l:or· of that forc,,st. lllo'l l'l til g t':!llh'! Ill . IAJi.'\ S f' C~ l i}\ 1-. i. l) ~~ I. y I'H'!IAJ 'i. 11 N~'!lllfoundJa. nd, ;;~nd :it has to b~' dc,,lJ~~l . opf~d . Thc·H'H IAir:~S 6111 al~ h:HIIfll: rnade to d~~velop the for·c::,st i.ndus Lr·y .. i.n Nrc11~Jfo1Hldl c1nd 'i:oo, Mr·. Speaker . Up until about three y r~ a r• s ago , l~ h C::' t' f~ s f~ ''' rn ~:! d 1.: o b c.~ pr·ogr·c,,ss being madE! in the ch:! v .,, l. o prne n 1:. of a for· c::' s 1-. rm:Hl r.l g c,w1e 11 t industry in Newfoundland .

They stari:.c-:ld a s.i.lvtculture pr·ogr·a1mne. But during !:he last three years forest management seems to have d~~cr·c.;!mSE!d. The ma'i.n r•f.!ason t.hat t.he manag~~mE:,nt of thE! forests has decr·f~msf?. d is l:: he fact thai: thcH'C-:l has bc;!c,Hl a lack of money to .i.mpl.C::,IIHHli:. i":hr.~ pr·ogr'dHnnc,,s. TI'HH' e :i~; stj]J somE! pJc:~.nt:ing being done, bul: 1..111,, h;:-1vc.~ srHHl ,:-) cul :bd c k on thH thJnn::ing.

Ht::H·bJcidE! and thE! i.nsec 1:.-i ci.dc,, pt"·ogr•atnlnr ~ s l:o flt'Uh :!t: 1-. ti·1E'! for·~, !~; · [ s at"E:! stj J 1 bc,,'.i ng usE?.cl dnd ~;Oifi('!Li . lnc~s i:uo rnur:h ·i. s brd. n•::~ USf·!d, fAS IAH:! i'!E:1ar•d t.ocJ;)ly. For· us today, iF a forest :is t.:o be s u c: r:c.~ s ~;Full. y rri•Hlr:-\9 rHI, "i. 1·. rnu s 1:. I : )~~ ti"E~ai.c-:lcl ·l:o same I.IJay as a gar·den. w f:1 !flU ~· 1:. p '1. r:\1'1 1·. I .~ n rl I~Jf: ! rnt.l s ·1·. 1Al!H1 d ' e~nd we rnus t pr·otect.

If we ar·e to IAJi'l.i. l: For· nattu·aJ. r·er_3c-~nEH'ai : -Lon 'i. n Newfoundland, il takes fifty to s i. x l y y E ~ iH' s F o r· m F o r· ~1 s 1:. ·1-. o naturally reg~nerate. If it is rnanagc,1d pr'Ofl(H'ly, IAIC-:l can get t.hat same forC::1St :in about Forty years l:ime. What: t.hcll": 1rH~ans ·i.s lAihE:Hl lAte c:ut:, IAJf~ go in and lAte cut in a s cienti fi c way so that l":he whole area is handled and cut properly.

I w:iJl t-ake onE! of the bc;!s t areas i. n 1:: h r~ P I" o lJ i. n c e ~~ n d T IAJi. 1. 1. 1-. ~~ ll. you how we can improve forest i.ndu s LI"Y i. n 1-JH~ PI"OtF"i. n c: f'! . ·rh ·i. s modE:1l could be usE~d for· i'.Hly oLhE!r placH, if l·:hr.:!y IAk\l'l'i'.od 1-n do ·i.L. I. /.090 May 18, 1988 ~JoJ XI.. I1Jr ~ C: .~ 11 1·. r.~ I< c~ 1·. h 1~ d' F s po"i. r· of this Province . A(' ,) everybody is aware, the Bn~y d 'l':spo"i.r· dr·c.~"' oF 111y d 'i. su· ·i.c:t hr.u; been associated with l":he forest "i. l'l d II s·t: I" y S I. 1'1 C (;! p f~ 0 p 1 (,1 S l;! l.: l.: 1. E:! cl there . F:ir·st of all, thE~I"E!

IAJE! I"E:! the,, smHl .l :i.nd:i.vi.dumT satAHnill s. Then came BotAJatE!rS and thE! E!xport wond. ThfHl ROIAk\ l::c;!r·s rnov E~d out: and then there was the hydro deve~oprnent wh i ch made work, and those people became construction workers. The fore s t tndusl:ry died. Then, in the rrd.d 1970s, lAJhEHl f E~ d EH' .:~ l. m o n A y s l:iH' L c,Hj L o c o rn C'! , they used the federal money to o n c E:! ,-,, g d -i. n s 1-: •:·\ r· t d f o t' ('! s t. i. n d u s 1:: In y in Bay d'Espoir. There was a l. r>l t' 9 r,1 S i.·\IAIIfl.'i. ll. ~ ; 'i". d I''~ ~ f;! d I..1Jh ·i. C h d 'i. cl not tAJork.

I l:: IAJas ovel "·-.. z~:!a1ous, l l:h:i.n k. A t'OCCHIIHIC· Hlc:lo~l: "i. on or l : hc·~ 1.91n Forestry Royal Commission was, ·i.ns l:c,1i.hl oF l.dr'gc:! ~;di..IJI'fl:i.l.l s, l·:hr:~y should possibly go back to the s rnH l.l. (! r• I HI!H' ~~ rfi<Hii:\ 9 ~~ r:·\1:) l. (! 0 I'H'! s which could provide a better SEH'tFi. c:c,, l·.o i.ho Pr·otJ 'i.ncc;! of Ne1J.1foundland. That, in it s eJ.f, lAJould then s l.:r:u·i~ to do dlAJay tAd.

Lh somE! of the! pr·oblerns that WP hdV E! .in t:hf~ s i::liAlfnill. .i ng 'indus tt" y in Newfoundland because you must r'l'::Hflc-:lmber· lhal: Lhr:~ r'C::'al. pr·obl< ,,m that we have! is IAJe have about 7 5 p E! r· c E~ n I~ t. o 8 0 p e r· c fHl t. o f t h e lumber used in this Province b r· o u g h t. o r· s h i. p p E:! d -i. n f r· o tn 1: h E! outside. I am sure the Speaker is aware 1 ... h r':\ t. 1·:. h c,1 J.u rn be r· i. n d u s t: I" y i. n c a n ;:~ d a works from a WE!St to East basi s. T n () 1·: h 0 r· IAIO r· d ~; ' d cdr· 1. 0 i:\ d 0 r lurnber· star·ts Jn BriU.sh CoJ.umbir.:~ d n d o:·l S "i.

I: t: o II tr'! s ;:~ c: r• 0 s s -i. i". s (,11. l. s fo1n a CfH'tr.d.n pl" ice . F:ina] 1y, IAih!;!n i.·L hi. Ls :>ydney, !>Oinobody No. 39 R2090

says, 1 l..e·t us dump +.:he lumber t.hat is left in Newfound1and. 1 So they p"ick up Lhc-?. phone and phonc,1 a lumber producer in Newfoundland and Sc'\y, 1 W.i.l.l. you ti::\kCc1 t.o lh<-?. LIAJO carloads of lumber we have and t: a k <-?. -L t. off o Ul" hand s for· tAJ h H 1·. c,~ v e r the cost. 1 Mr. Spc,~a kc,~ r, T dfll s l.ll"f:! U·J,~d: members opposite would recognize i. 1: b f:~ C a I IS Cc1 n C)IAJ 1~)(,1 ;;H' (~ l; C·H:1-i. 1'1 g <'1 l:i.ttl~~ b-:it of t.he r·<,1ver·se of it.

W(:! ;:,1t'c,~ Sf~f:!·'i.ng Nf~tAJfoundl.t'1nd, d 91"Cc1f.!.t: pi"OducE~t"S of cucumbers, nol.IJ durnp""i.ng cttc:tHIIbnr·~; :i.n 1\lotJr:-1 Sc:oL"i..~1 :) n t.l10.1 !>cHnE~ tAJay that the 1. 1.1 rn b r-:1 r· · .. p r· o d 1 1 c :i. n g p r· o lJ 'i. n c ~:~ s "i. n Ci:~.nada ar•c,1 dumping 1 urnbe:1r into l\lr-~tAJFoundl.r:·1nd. To gel·. back l:o Hay cl 1 fspoi .r·, 'AJ-i.th Lhe:1 sawrni11-.ing opc:1ration dE!VE!l.oped l·.:hei"E~, tAJU could cr·~:1C1. h::~ rnor·E~ jobs :i.n Bay d 1 Espo:ir.

If y o 1.1 p u t p eo pl. e to tAJO r k o n s :i. t <-?. reclamation, the cutting out of i:he lrees that wer·e cut ovHr' by Bowater and thE! satJJmill operations ar·ound th :i. s Province over the years, we could now be creating jobs for· lhe people who i:-H'e .i.n desperate need of work. Thr:~ For·osl". Fconon,..i.c Sl·.·i.rnul.us Pr·ogtnamlTIE!, that I arn sur·e1 the 111 e Ill b e r f o r· P o r· 1·: Fl 1.1 P o r· 1:. ( M r· . Hodder·) is aiAJare of becauSE! :i L put ,·.1 1 I) 1: 0 f f> ('! 0 fl l. r;! 1:0 I~JO r' k i 1'1 h "i. S d'.ist1n:ict, as :iL d·:i.d in rny d i. s 1·.

I" i. c I~ ' ·i. ~; r:·1 n () I: h C:' r· 0 n (· '~ () F 1·. h 0 fEH1EH'c:.tJ :i n:i t'ii:d:j ve pi"091"anuues thcd: ho'1S c:l · i.sdppr~•'1t'c·~d s i.ncc=1 l:h i.!> gr·r~.:-11: co·- ·OFJHt"at'.i on bEdt.~.men UtE~ 'tl.IJO flr· i.ans IAJhtHl l::I-Jr:!y I~JC;1n 1: l:o :i.nFl.'i.c L pr·ospc:H·:i.ty on Newfound] and. T h i. ~; i. s o n l~ o F l h f~ 1·: h .. i. n g s t h '" t h i·1 s happc->.nc;!d :in this who] E:1 dE1al. They have declded to inflict prosperity by cutt:tng out a11 of l::he fE1dc:1ral pr·ogr·arrunr::1s l::hat.

IAHH'<->. hHl.pJng l:h~1 L2091 May 18, 1988 Vol XL poor and lhe unempl.oy<.;!d in I:: his Province. The other happf~n, Mr·. MR. SPEAKER: thtngs Spc,1akc;!r', - Ol"der·, plE!aSE!! that couJ.d Thr~ hon. rn~~rnbt : !r' 1 s ·1·. -i.rnP 'i.s up. MR. GTLBERT: In conclusion, 1'-11". SpE:1akE1Y', I ~~Jou ' lc:l sr:-~y l·.h;.~l: l·.o dotJc·:!l.op thE:1 tndtJstry, the fol"t:1StE!I"S say Lhr~t . a d .:-1 y 1 S I~JO t' k hH' d l'fld 1'1 1: 0 d i'l y -i, l'l silvicultur·e is a yE1ar·' s wor·k for· d Hli-11'1 -j_ n f 0 t' +: y y f~ d I" S t. i. trle harvesting the wood products. SOME HON. MFMBERS: H fcHH' 1 h fHH' ! MR.

WOODFORD: Mr. Speab1r. MR . SPEAKER: The han . the member for Humber Vdl.l.~c~y. MR. WOODFORD: Thank you, Mr. , Speaker . SOME HON. MEMBERS: H~HH', ht:1rH'! MR. WOODFORD: M r· . s pHd k f~ r· I I~ I "i. 1··. h r· A r (~ Y' ~ : ! n c; ('! t () L hE~ r· e s o 1 u l :i o n by t h e m t:' rn b t:' r f o r· S t . John 1 s Fds 1: Fxh·n·n; "i.l: s l:a1 ... es: lid I ·I F f? F A~) 1-. h n f' r· 0 lJ "i. n ci d J. Go lJ lH' I'IITI tHl 1·: has had considerable success in s l·. r·ong Uwrdng l:hc~ for·ns-1'. ..

Lndul; l:: t"Y on lh~: ~ Island of N<'!IAJfoundland l··.hr·ough rn·i.l.l '·'P9t"dcl"i.ng and silviculture; and ~,JHEREA~) t:hHY'f~ 1. s merchantable timber L. a b r· rj1 d () r· ; r::\ n d cons oi. d E! r· i:-:t b l. E! in EasLE!t'n

WHEREAS the government has been No. ,39 R2091

rn.::~ !< i. ng· e Ffori': s i':o df~vc,1lop '"' :l.ndus t.r·v Jn thE! Goose Bay r~ (·~ l. l) ·i. ll. ~~ ) r:·\ r· (~ i~\ ; fcH't,1S 1: (Lake 13[ lT THFf~f.FOf~E f~ESOUJFr:> i:hr•\1: l:hi.1; hon. l·lousc.;! go Ol'l l"ecord as fHl C 0 IH'd9 'i. ng 1.: h f~ g 0 U r~ I'' I'HfHHl t I:O cont:i nue i.ts effor·ts to bring a for· f:! s 1.: i. n d us tr· y 1: o l. r:-1 b t' ado 1~ . Mr· . ~3 p f~ r:·\ i<EH' • IJ.Jl. l.l j I~ s 1-. h a v f~ i.~ few IJ.Jords in regard to the first

Whereas and speak about lhe generalities in the Province itself, overlapping into Labr·ador. I remember in 197 S or 1976, when t:hey t.1.H:H'e t.:i:tlk-i.ng i:lbout an agreeme!nt between the fE!dS and the Province, it was often sai.d and referred to at that U .mE! that the forest is Newfoundland's forgotten resource. I just. hE!cll"d t hc,1 hon. ITIE!ITiber fr·om R o n i:l v :i. s 1-. a 1\J o r· 1·.: h ( M r· .

I. _ u s h ) ·1·. <:-\ l. k -i. n g &bout Lhe djsaster in the forestry () v e r· l: I·H:! p r:·\ s 1·. y (Hi\r' s • "' n d 1·: hi s Cl.dnr.i n:i str·ation and one,~ f>r'c,wious to i. i-. , Uw Moor·f~S gOlJtH'I'llfHHll:, I~Ji:IS responsible for jt, Mr . Speaker . RotJ.Jdi'.t,H' r:alftr-:'! l·.o Cor·rH'!t' llt"ook. l Lh:ink, :in appr·oxirnatc-?.Jy 1929. J do no'l: kncu.~.J · UH~ · dr:\'l.:os on 1-.i'H~ ol :ht:!t' one-:!, A~>".i tibi·-·PI":ic:e :in Grand Falls, rHld T 'l:.h:J.nk :i.-1: IJ.Jd!) 'i.n t.ht·'! Jai:H '60's for the Stephenville mil]. Now, fr·o1n 1975 l:o 1.978, Mr·.

Speak C:H', it tJ.Jas recognized in this P r· o v -L n c c.;! 1:: h a 1:: 1·.: h ~?. for C.;! s t :i. n d u s t: r· y was a d:isastE!r, there tJ.Jas no c:l.c->.ar·-cutt:J .ng, i.t iAias cut. IJ.Jh(~i"(-'!vc-::i~ it was most accessible and what(:1UC;!r tAJas closest : ~:o t.hE! rrri.l.l., thereby genE!rating huge profits tAl h i. c h IJ.J c;! r· t1 s pen+: "l n o t. h (;! r· p c\ r· 1-: s of lhe tJ.Jorld and not I'IE!Cessarily in 1·: h 'i s P r· o 1; .i n c E~ . Who wHs i:hE!r'e .:-11:: thr.·\ 1·: 1-. i.lflf~, Mr· . Spc,•akE!r? WhE!I'l you talk about y E:' a r· s 9 o n t~ b y d n d 1". h f:! s i.

I: u r:-1 1·. :i. o n l/.09/. Mi:tY 18, 1988 Vol XL l:odcty, r do nol : hdVE~ to say whctt administration was in power in l97rl .. '1,9713. ~~hy I~J;:u; l·.hf'!Y'f~ not a silviculture programme between l 9?. 9 - l 9 '71l? T -l: ~~~~~ s b t' o ugh 1·: i:. o a head in 1976 and 1977, the c:l e s '1'. n1 1: L i. o n o F HH~ F o I" f;! s i... i n d u s l.:r-y in this Province. What happened?

I·t tJ.Jas right at the hedght of t.hE! budwor•tn r:•\lld l:hf?. loopf~r· ·i.nfest:at "i.on in the Province that finally it IAJr:-1 s iH:I cl r· ~~ s s f~ rl by UH~ F ''' d t:! r· ;:,, 1. and provincial governments that sornr,•l:h'i.ng should br-?. done->. w:i.th regard to our forest industry.

I tAJas awarE! of what was goi.ng on 'in UH~ Sl,IChan's ar·ea, ;:-1s some,, of the hon. membE!rS knotJ.J, up thr·ough 1-:.hE:1 Expl.o-l.t~;, up l·.:hr·ough l::he Victoria Lake area where A b i. ·I: :i. b J. - P r· i. c f~ 1.1.1 r,, r• (,1 d o · i. n 9 rn o s i: o F the:ir cutting anq SE!nding it clown l~ncl Tncl ·i.dn l . .i'·\k:~ .:-trlcl dOIAJn l·.:hr·ough Exploj ts to Gr·and Falls. It was i: h :=! s d HIC! Uri. n y o v ~=! r· t.~.JI ' H;! r· E!

T 1. .:i. lH! now, in Humber Valley area, IJ.IIH,H't~by UH~Y c:lt;!l.l.lgf'!d r:1nd df~t> l·:r·oyc;!d the Upper Humber· ar'E!a of the lhlml:>t'!t' Ur:1ll.:~y r't:!g ·i.on. Those tL~IO r·ivc-:1rs, thE! Explo-.i ts and HuutbfH' IJdl.l.t·~Y, l ·. h,:~-1: ·i.s hobJ i:: hr-?.y sent: thEdr logs to thE! m:iJ.l., and l·. hc,1t'f~by, f~~ -~~;y dccnss ag;·_,,i.n, Mr·. Speaker, no trucking, no roads to rnr:1 :i. n t·. i'l oi. n • and so on . Thts agreemE:~nt Wi:lS put in plaCE! to tr·y to salvage t:he industry. As thE! hon. rnetnbE!r for Burg eo Bay d ' E s p o i. ;' ( 1'-~ r· .

G .i l b E: r· l.: ) J u s l: s iil :i d , and hE! is quite right, that tt IAJas .i.ci(::Hl ' l:i.f'i.~:!d r:-\l:: l.·. hr"ll: t:Lm~:! by l:he year 2000 our forest indus ·l:ry i.n thi.s Pr·ov·i.l'lC(c' IAJOI.Ild be;! :i.n jeopardy. There' t s no doubt :it IJ.IOUl.d hr.-lVt'' I:HH;!n, excE:!pt for· t:he agr~H!tnE:•nt put in plaCE!, I think it. IJ.JdS i.n l97B, CH' rH'OUI'ld l·.: hal i.::i.l'llE! bE:•lween thE! fE!dS and t:hE! Prov:incE!, IJ.ri. l:h r·f~g.u·cl i:o l · :ht~• for·f:!Str·y. I No. 39 R2092

think tt was called the Forest Resource Development Agreement, tf I ,~m not rrroi.st-.abm. I 1:-.I'J"i.nl< l.:hat. agreernc-?.nt expires March 31, 1990. The forest industry in the Province ;:,,sa t.vhol.f~ cont.r·:ibul· :~~s t.o around 14,000 jobs both in the forc-?.str·y, L:hc-?. act.ual pu 'l.ptAJood par·l: of it, and the sawmilling i. n d u s t r· y . T h ~~ L ,,, b r a d o r s c;, c: 1-. i. o n 1. ~; down now, I think, to bwt:wec,1n 50 ,:, n d 1. r; 0 , 1~1 i. 1:. h L h e p o s s :i. b i. 1. ·i. I: y o F j t gooi ng :in thc,1 nc-?.xt li.I.JO year·s to FH' o b a b l. y ?. r; 0 or· 3 00 f~ m p 1. o y fH! s .

T h (;!I"~~ L•Ja •; i'l 1-:i)JC.:! n L y y e ;,, r· rrkl nag~~ 1110 n L ctgln~HHIIE:11'1t. Thi:lt :is whc"ll IAic~s sl·.ar·l:f:!cl dflPI"ox · i.nlr.~l·.ol.y l:r~n yor:•tr·s ago to try ctnd sctlvage the I' o r· f~ s I: I" y :i. n 1-.l-l"i. s P r· 0 lJ"i. n C: f~ . 1\Jow, Mr·. Spc~.:·lknr·, lAJf~ c.:tn look and s a y t. h i'..l t t h c;, t h r· c,H,1 p a p e r· rrd 1. 1 s -1:: h ;,, -1: f~ x ·i s , .. _ n OIAJ ""i. n L h o PI" o v :i. n c l,~ , t· h a t t h e r· E! .i. s E!l'l o u g h s u s l a i n a b 1 e cut. not~J, or· <HlnUi'l l. i.·l l.l. OI~Jdbl. '"" c 111: on thE!

Island i · tsr:~Jf to sustain those m·i.J.J.s indefiniLel.y. MR. TULK: Is there enough for additional mills? MR. WOODFORD: The,re is eno1Jgh ·l:here for· add:i.t"i.onaJ. m:i.l.l.s on the;, Island

part itself, Mr·. Speaker·, after approx :i.rnd t.c.~ l.y iHlO l:l'lfH' hHl y c.~r:H'S of the silviculture programmes. A p r· i. Hlf'! c-~ x d 1r1 p 1. r-~ ·i. s i. n I Jw M .:·l'i. n J~j v~H' ctr'E~a of thE:' Pl"ov:i neE!, in l.he 1,~ h .. ;_ 1-: r:! 11 d y ;:·1 r' H ,., . ~-J h r"' n I< r· 1.1 g r-:, r· r.t i:.tr··[ E~d thc"lt thc-~y CCHriE~ up lAd th a l·:o 1-..:·ll c:u 1·. of dppr·ox i.H~t:-1 h~l. y l.. () T11:iJJ-.ion COI"ds IAJii".:ll a I.IAIE:'nt-.y to I·:!AW n 1: y ·-·f"i. lJ H y r:!d r· c ul: i". -i. ng pi"09l"dl'rllltE:~.

NotAl, that :is :i.ncr'E:1clSE!d l·.o f ·i.FI:y l:o F"i.F-1-.y--I"".IAJO yn;:-n's because of l.he silvicuJ.ture f>r' o g r· .:~1mnE~ "'n d Ulf'! 1: hi n 1ri. n g pr·ogramiTIE! that IAJas piJt ·.:Ln place by 1..2093 May 1. 8, 1. 988 Vol. XL 1-. h e p r· o v i. n c .i. a l g o v o r· n HIC-?. n t . That ·i.s lJery -I.mpor·t.i:ilnt because the actual natural growth of, eSfH~ci. al.l.y l:he f :i.r· c.HJd lhe spr·uce in the ProvincE!, I think, is between fifty and seventy years without thinning.

With a good l:.h'i.nn""i.ng pr·ogr'i'lrmnc,~, Lhe~l:. nat.ura1 grOIJ.Jth is doiJ.m to around for·ty or· f'i.fl:lj YE~i'll''S IAJhf~J'l YOII Ci:ll'l Sl:.iH'I". l·:o har·vest again, or bE!t-I:.E!r' in some cas n·s. MR. TUI..I< : What did you say the ·U .rnc-:' WclS :if ·f ·l: j 11s 1: gr·pt)J on ·i.l:s ot~Jn? MR. WOODFORD: Fifty to SE~ven-Ly year·s gr·o,MI-.h ·i.r yo1.1 do nol: -1-.h'i. n, have other brush. such ni'.lLur·a1 i. r: you as thE· b:i.r·ch, ofi:C!ll r'f:! rfHTHcl l:o c:~s something E!l.SE! in o ·thE•r par·Ls of [·. h u p r· 0 wi. n c: f'!

I 1: I )f~ d s p (! n i'1 n r:l ~; (·:. u F r 1-.i.kE! tht:d:, but in any caSE!, it ".i.s f ·i. F I ~ y 1.: o ~; r-:' lJ E~ n 1.: y y ~~ a I" s . W .i t. h a good thinnjng programme. you can cut 'i.t in forty to FifLy. MR. TULK: You tt, can i~t:~l<c,~ ,:,,boul··. and maybe more. I'-1R. WOODFORD: l:c~ n off Probably twenty. In the White Bay Ci.l"~~iYI, i "".hf~lj f ·i.gtH'H bE!Ciill.ISH o-f [·:. he high spruce content that you could ct.JI: ·i. L clot•Jn ~;omul:h · i.ng li.k(,~ twenly-six to twenty-seven years.

Cl : ·i.~; 11ot: only L:hc:' ;:-, ·1·:'1-:d'i.ninq i:'ll'lcl thE! !;av:ing of i".:hE! jobs that at"c;, r-1 J. r· H d rl y 1: h '''I'' t'! , ·Hw r' ~'! 1~10