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May 16, 2013

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLVII No. 22

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Wiseman): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Yesterday in the House, there was a point of order raised by the Government

House Leader with respect to comments made by the Member for St. Barbe. I had

indicated then that I would review Hansard and the video clips of the

proceedings from yesterday, and I have done that. I have considered what I have

seen, recognized and identified as being differing views between two very hon.

members of the House of Assembly, and there is no point of order.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Before we start proceedings today, I want to acknowledge some special guests

in the gallery. We have fifty-four members of the Random New Horizons 50 Plus

Club in Hillview, in the wonderful District of Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Welcome to our galleries.

Also, today we are joined by Mr. Andrew Dale from the folk trio group The

Once, along with fellow members Geraldine Hollett and Phil Churchill, and the

Member for Port de Grave will sing one of their tunes when he stands in a

moment.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Today we are going to have members' statements from the

Member for District of Conception Bay East Bell Island; the Member for the

District of Terra Nova; the Member for the District of Mount Pearl South; the

Member for the District of Bay of Islands; the Member for the District of St.

John's North; and the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

The hon. the Member for the District of Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand to recognize a very creative and innovative businessman in my

district; I speak of Mr. Mike Murray of Murray's Horticultural Services. For

more than three decades Mike has led the way as an innovator in the business

areas of horticulture and environmental landscaping.

This respected businessman came from humble beginnings. After graduating from

McGill University he began his entrepreneurship by growing vegetables on the

family land in Portugal Cove and selling them on the side of the road. Mike

employs seventy people at the height of his growing season.

Mike grew up with a love for the land and what it produced. He wanted to

instil this philosophy in his sons and would hope to one day have the next

generation of Murrays build on his creativity and innovation. This, Mr. Speaker,

I am happy to say is happening, as all three sons are now involved in the

business: Evan, as an environmental officer; Tim, a landscape architect; and

Cameron, the business strategist.

Mike is very involved in the community and continues to advise those in the

industry around best practices and creative ways to embrace our environment

while respecting the land.

I ask all members to congratulate Mike on an outstanding career.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Terra Nova.

MR. S. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize a well-known and talented gentleman from my

district. Fred Rowsell of Glovertown has spent the majority of his life

performing music.

Fred recorded his first song at the age of sixteen and would later go to

Nashville with his cousin, Eddie Eastman, to record another four songs. It was

around this time that Fred chose the stage name, Bobby Evans, to differentiate

himself from many other Rowsells that were involved in the music industry at the

time. Fred would go on to open for some of the music industry's biggest names,

including Hank Williams Jr., Marty Robbins, Randy Travis, and Freddie Fender,

just to name a few.

While music is a big part of Fred's life, his heart and compassion is what

truly defines him. Along with his wife, Margaret, they have fostered over

seventy children over the course of forty years. Fred has spent his life helping

others, whether it has been appearing on the VOCM Happy Tree at the Arts and

Culture Centre year after year, or lending his talent to numerous benefit

concerts. Fred is truly a class act, Mr. Speaker.

I ask all hon. members to join with me in recognizing my good friend, Fred

Rowsell, for his community service and musical accomplishments.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Mount Pearl South.

MR. LANE: Mr. Speaker, it is my privilege to stand in this hon. House to

recognize the tremendous success which was the 31st Annual Frosty Festival in

the City of Mount Pearl. Once again, this year's festival included various

activities for citizens of all ages and interests, including: an Irish themed

concert featuring some of Newfoundland and Labrador's greatest talent, two

community breakfasts, an indoor and outdoor family fun day, a lip sync contest,

a seniors bingo, a jiggs dinner and variety show, and a dinner theatre, just to

name a few.

Mr. Speaker, as I am sure you can appreciate, any festival of this magnitude

would not be possible if it were not for the hard work and co-operation of a

number of community-minded partners.

I would therefore ask all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating the City of Mount Pearl, the Frosty Festival Board of Directors,

the various community groups and organizations, the corporate sponsors, and all

of the community-minded volunteers who contributed to the great success story

which was Frosty Festival 2013.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to recognize the

organizers of the second annual Janelle Blanchard Memorial Volleyball Tournament

held last weekend at Templeton Academy in Meadows.

Janelle was a student at Templeton Academy who passed away in 2012 at the age

of sixteen. She was very active in sports in her community and school.

In honour of her memory, friends and family have established the Janelle

Blanchard Memorial Scholarship which is awarded to the student who demonstrates

the same qualities as Janelle of sportsmanship, spirit and friendship.

Twenty co-ed teams took

part in the tournament this year with players coming

from St. John's, Corner Brook, Stephenville and the Bay of Islands area. The

team known as Ballin' which included Nicole Goulding, Andrew Kendall, Thomas

Lovell and Marissa Park won the championship game. Holly Smith was named the

MVP, while Stephen Brake was awarded honours as the Most Sportsmanlike player.

The tournament was a tremendous success and a wonderful recognition of the

contribution Janelle made to those who knew her and loved her.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join with me in extending congratulations

to the organizers for their hard work and commitment in ensuring that Janelle's

memory and spirit will always be celebrated.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise in this House today to

salute three students from my district who won awards in the recent Avalon

Heritage Fair hosted by St. Matthews Elementary in St. John's.

Heritage fairs present an exciting opportunity for students to explore the

heritage of their country and their province. I can tell you from personal

experience that judging these fairs is a very difficult thing to do. There are

so many young students demonstrating their enthusiasm for history.

Two of the fifteen winners at this year's fair were from Larkhall Academy.

Brandon Dalton won the Edmund Dawson Community Award for his project on

resettlement. Faith Sheppard won the Avalon Regional Award for her project

entitled Zita Cobb: Preserving and Showcasing Fogo Island.

The other regional award winner from my district was Meret Ebsary from St.

Andrew's Elementary, who won the literacy award for her project about the

Newfoundland dog and the Labrador retriever.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating these three

winners, and indeed all of the students, teachers and parents who help to make

our heritage fairs in the Province such a resounding success.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. LITTLEJOHN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today in this House to recognize Mr. Andrew Dale and the group, The

Once, a folk trio group with fellow members Geraldine Hollett and Phil

Churchill. They recently received the 2013 ECMA for Best Roots Traditional Group

Recording of the year

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LITTLEJOHN: - for their song Row Upon Row of the People They Know .

Andrew, who originates from Coley's Point, has been performing all of his life.

My first experience hearing The Once was several years ago at a Christmas

Concert at Grace United Church on Coley's Point. This I believe was one of their

first performances, but I vividly recall the harmonies and musical talents of

the group.

I am proud to say that I have seen Andrew perform in many shows,

performances, and concerts over the years and I am not surprised of his success

and that of The Once. Andrew continues to be very humble of his and their

success and prefers to say he is thankful to be doing something he loves.

I ask all members to join me today in congratulating Andrew and The Once on

their success and wish them well on their future endeavours in the music

industry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House to provide an update

about the tremendous success of the sealing industry this year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Approximately 90,000 seals will be harvested by the end of

this season, which represents an increase of approximately 30 per cent over the

69,000 seals that were harvested in 2012. This shows how our ongoing partnership

with industry is creating benefits for licensed sealers and promoting sealing

activity.

Mr. Speaker, investments in advocacy and industry development have been

ongoing since 2006, and to date have totalled $900,000. With these investments

we have supported communications campaigns that counter anti-sealing propaganda

with facts about the economic, cultural, and ecological benefits of the harvest.

We have supported seal marketing initiatives to gain greater access to

international markets such as China. We have enhanced professionalization

activities for the industry, which has included training sealers in the humane

harvesting of seals using a process approved by veterinarians. Mr. Speaker, we

have also supported actions taken by the sealing industry, Inuit Tapiriit

Kanatami, and other provincial, federal, and territorial governments to overturn

the seal products ban that was put in effect by the European Union.

In addition, this government also recently announced another repayable loan

of $3.6 million to Carino Processing Limited. This loan provided inventory

financing so that the company could purchase seal pelts and blubber, which in

turn secured income for hundreds of sealers and plant workers. This investment

also created economic spin-offs with respect to transportation, industrial

supplies, and professional services. Our success with this financing arrangement

continues from last year, when the loan we provided to Carino was repaid in

full, with interest, and was used to create a total economic benefit of $4.5

million.

Mr. Speaker, our sealing industry continues to produce high-quality products

for fashion, pharmaceutical, and food industries, and these products are in

demand throughout the world. The production value of sealing has been as high as

$55 million annually, and this government remains committed to working with the

industry to grow that economic success for the benefit of harvesters and their

communities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, there are few areas

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, there are few areas where the Opposition is so

in sync with the government, or the government is so in sync with where it

should be as the sealing industry. This really is good news from the minister

today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, I can categorize three types of individuals who

benefit, even four types, from this seal fishery we call it. In my own community

you can see a couple of fellows in a small boat get 250 seals in a day or two.

That is $8,000 at $32 a pelt.

The general store up in Port Saunders has sold $100,000 worth of ammunition

in a good year. Further north in the Straits area in the spring you will

sealskins stretched out and there is a place that sells crafts made from

sealskins.

Even over in Twillingate in the minister's own district, there is a legal

client of mine who outfitted his boat last year so it would meet the CFIA

standards where he harvested seals. He made $60 or more per animal at a couple

of thousand animals. He made a big haul last year on a properly prosecuted seal

fishery. I think this is a good news story from the minister and I concur with

the minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for The Straits White Bay North.

MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement. I certainly

agree with the statement as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MITCHELMORE: It is good to see this type of inventory investment that

leads to a stabilization and even growth in the industry over previous years. It

is good to see an increase in the price of pelts.

I am a member of the Canadian Sealers Association, and fishers in my district

have several thousand seals this year. That is a great start to their incomes

and everything like that.

I would like to see more where we develop local markets and extend those

products. I do have a former sealskin economuseum in my very district of Shoal

Cove East that sells all kinds of apparel.

I encourage the Minister of Fisheries and the Department of IBRD to continue

working together in doing such positive initiatives. I invite anyone up for seal

flipper pie we have at the caucus office today.

Cheers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

From August 2 to August 17, more than 3,400 young athletes from across our

country will converge on Sherbrooke, Quebec, for the 2013 Canada Summer Games.

Since their inception in 1967, the Canada Games are held every two years,

alternating between summer and winter, and have been instrumental in the

development of some of the country's premier athletes.

A contingent of fine athletes from our Province will be among the many

competitors taking

part in seventeen sports at the games. Team Newfoundland and

Labrador is made up of approximately 350 athletes, coaches, manager, and mission

staff. As the best in their age group, these young athletes have trained many

long and arduous hours to earn the honour of representing their Province.

Mr. Speaker, athletic excellence involves more than an ability to play a

particular sport. Dedication, discipline, and commitment are also necessary

ingredients that help shape our elite athletes. These characteristics will serve

these individuals well not only in their respective sports, but in their daily

lives as well.

Since the release of our government's recreation and sport strategy, Active,

Healthy Newfoundland and Labrador in 2007, more than $70 million has been

committed to recreational and sport infrastructure, programming, and athlete

development in our Province. Combined with investments in arenas and other

athletic facilities, our total financial commitment to supporting sports and

healthy living since 2007 is $172 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: The results of our investment were certainly evident last

evening, Mr. Speaker, when I had the honour of joining Premier Dunderdale for

the 2013 Premier's Athletic Awards. More than 120 individuals were recognized

for excellence in their chosen sport and received awards totalling $91,000.

Mr. Speaker, Canada Games athletes are Canada's next generation of national,

international, and Olympic champions. Our government will continue to work

closely with Sport Newfoundland and Labrador, School Sport Newfoundland and

Labrador, Recreation Newfoundland and Labrador, and the provincial sports

organizations to achieve the objectives outlined in our sport and recreation

strategy. We will also continue with the development of our provincial athletes

to reach their highest potential in sport performances such as the Canada Games,

which we will be hosting in 2021 here in our Province.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy. I will just give a little personal

story to say how much we have advanced in training in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I attended the 1975 Winter Games. I had three fights in boxing and I fought

this guy, Randy Jackson, with 250 fights. After that weekend up there boxing, I

earned the nickname canvas-back Joyce.

Since then, our Province has come a long way, Mr. Speaker, with our training

with our youth. Government does deserve a lot of credit. Over the years we have

developed a lot of facilities. We cannot forget the Stephenville training centre

that is going to be a little detriment to the West Coast of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Congratulations to all the athletes who are participating because their hard

work and dedication will make all of us proud in Newfoundland and Labrador. To

all the parents who bring their kids back and forth, you are doing a great job.

You are showing the kids work ethics and ensuring they are off the streets and

into some gym or into some facility. Also, to all the trainers and coaches,

congratulations, you are doing a great service.

There is no doubt that government has put a lot of money into athletics in

Newfoundland and Labrador. I commend the government on that because it is a way

of life we all should follow and help out with Newfoundland and Labrador, and

all the best to all the athletes who are going to participate. I am sure they

are going to represent our Province well.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.

MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement. I would like

to extend congratulations to our 350 athletes, coaches, and staff who will be

participating in the Canada Games. This is certainly a great honour, as well as

to all the recipients of the Premier's Athletic Awards. We must continue to

invest in our athletes, and this is a great initiative.

Because we have ever increasingly high rates of obesity in our youth, it is

so important to retain specialized resources versus the cuts we have seen in

this year's Budget. Youth are spending more time on longer bus rides and behind

computer screens. We need to do more to encourage an active lifestyle across all

age groups to improve our overall health and well-being.

I commend government on the initiatives they have so far.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The people of Cartwright L'Anse au Clair have been without representation

in this House since April 8, waiting for the Premier to call a by-election. This

government has usually been quick to call by-elections in the past, except in

this case.

I ask the Premier: Why have you waited so long to call a by-election and when

will the people of Cartwright L'Anse au Clair have an MHA?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there are very well prescribed and public timelines for calling

elections in this Province. In the very near future the by-election will be

called in Labrador. Everybody understands why there was a delay. There was a

federal election on the go. It only concluded last week. The people of Labrador

ought to have and did have the time to consider their options in that election

without being distracted by a provincial election.

Mr. Speaker, we will move ahead now as quickly as we can to fill that seat.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is the people of Cartwright L'Anse au Clair that we are most concerned

about. They are the ones doing without representation. We all know that in 2015

we are going to have conflicting provincial and federal elections, based on the

prescribed timelines.

Mr. Speaker, one criticism of the minister's school board transition

committee is that it is undemocratic, and another criticism is its lack of

diversity on the appointees.

I ask the Premier: Will you include input from the Federation of School

Councils, the Teachers' Union, and the Aboriginal community on the transition

team?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, despite some accusations made yesterday -

democracy ripped apart, and these are political appointees - the people we have

on this transition committee are elected. They are elected officials who are now

serving on a transition team.

I have said this in the House many times, we welcome representation. I am

certain the NLTA will provide information, as well as the Federation of School

Councils. I would ask them to submit their issues to the transition committee

and all of that will be taken into consideration, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, unless I missed an election somewhere, I do not think any of those

members who are on this transition committee were elected to be on the

transition committee. In fact, what they have been elected to do was their own

school board.

Mr. Speaker, when this government fashions its new super school board, will

rural members, as well as Aboriginal representation?

I ask the Premier: Will you also implement a method of public consultation to

ensure equal access across this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I am going to tell you, the people who are on

the transition committee indeed are elected. I went down through the list of the

names of some of the people who have served on these boards. Some of them have

served on it for eight, nine, ten years.

Mr. Speaker, they spend hours away from their family and they are volunteers.

Some of the references that have been made to these people in the last few days,

I think it is just utterly disgraceful. These are people who volunteer for the

sole reason, Mr. Speaker, in the best interest of the students in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, they are to be commended for it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, to the minister, I did not hear the word consultation. Obviously, it

seems to be an area that he does not want to go. What we are asking for is

public consultation so people can have meaningful input so that they will be

heard.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Tourism confirmed in Estimates that there were

no consultations with the industry on the $4 million cut to the marketing

budget. He also confirmed that it was strictly a budgetary decision.

I ask the Premier: Why did you make these drastic cuts without any

consultation with the major stakeholders in this industry?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad the hon. gentleman has brought up tourism. I just had the privilege

of attending Rendez-vous Canada, Mr. Speaker, where the industry association,

the TIAC for this country said that Newfoundland and Labrador was the poster

child for tourism in this country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, this is a government that not only invests in

tourism marketing but tourism in general, with over $17 million this year our

budget is; $9 million in marketing, which exceeds many of my counterparts across

this country in tourism.

Mr. Speaker, the most important part of this is that over the last several

years this government has invested $94 million in marketing in the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, while the minister was away, the industry here in this Province was

telling us that this $4 million investment into marketing would be negative,

would have a negative impact. As a matter of fact, we have been told that it

will take us back to 2009 levels, and that our major competitor is at the same

area where we are with Nova Scotia. Mr. Speaker, we all know the investment in

tourism marketing have paid significant dividends to this Province, yet

government saw fit to cut this very budget that was bringing diversification and

growth to this Province. We agree with that.

I ask the minister: What is the return on the investment in tourism, and why

would you cut a department that was making a significant contribution to this

Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, this year I had the privilege of attending the

Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador Conference. When I was there I had the

privilege of sharing some statistics that we have accumulated over a

twelve-month period on a wide range of things, what people thought of what

they liked about Newfoundland and Labrador, why they come here and so on. One of

the key points to that, Mr. Speaker, was that the tourism industry right now in

Newfoundland and Labrador has a billion dollars in spending. That is because

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: - of the investments that this government has made, plus the

13,000 people who work in that industry right across this Province, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, this week escaped farmed salmon were found in

the Garnish River in Fortune Bay. These escaped farmed salmon raise the risk of

transfer disease like ISA, and sea lice and interbreeding.

I ask the Minister of Fisheries: How long were these Frankenfish on the

loose? How many escaped, and where did they escape from?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, we were informed that the farmed

salmon were sighted on April 30 at the mouth of a river on the South Coast.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. DALLEY: We immediately followed the Code of Containment practice

which references escape and recapture policies. DFO investigated the issue for

us and have instituted a recapture plan. Some of the salmon have been

recaptured. We will do some genetic testing to determine where.

Mr. Speaker, at this point, it is a very small amount of salmon. At the same

time, industry is well-aware of the importance of this issue. They are very

co-operative and there have been no significant escapes reported. In fact, there

have been none reported since 2010.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, if that is true, it sounds like they were on

the loose for three years. Bill 29 is being used to cover up information on sea

lice, dead and dying salmon, and salmon escapes on the South Coast. At the same

time, such reports are all available in British Columbia.

I ask the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture: Why is he covering up this

information in our Province when it is readily available to the residents of

British Columbia in their province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, if I did not know better, the hon. member on the

other side is trying to end this session of the House as he started it, to try

to find a way to shut down the aquaculture industry on the South Coast. There is

no cover up; it is very open. Our practices are lauded across North America.

We know and the industry knows, Mr. Speaker, our investments in surveillance,

in monitoring, our investments in fish health and biosecurity, and the economic

impact that we are having in the Province and the strong industry. We are

following best practices; we are cautious in what we do. There are issues, Mr.

Speaker, but I can assure you we will continue to work with industry to resolve

these issues, and not continue to try to find ways to shut down the industry.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, I notice that the minister did not answer

either one of the questions posed to him. I can assure him that this is not

about shutting down the industry; this is about making it viable and making it

last. Since the minister did not provide any answers I assume either he has no

answers or he is ducking the question.

Again I ask him: How many fish escaped, where did they escape from, and how

long were they on the loose? British Columbia has a registry. Why don't we?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, I did answer the question the first time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. DALLEY: Obviously he is focused on trying to get this industry shut

down. There were very few fish, Mr. Speaker. It happened on April 30 that we got

a report on it, and DFO are doing the investigation.

It just speaks to the level of co-operation in industry. It speaks to the

policy and practices that we have instituted. Mr. Speaker, the result of that is

we have 1,000 people working in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: We have very strong economic activity on the South Coast. I

can assure the member opposite we are going to continue to work with the

industry.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have just learned that an experienced Crown prosecutor has resigned in

this Province and accepted a job in Alberta. He said due to the cuts from Budget

2013, he has no confidence in the Attorney General, no confidence in the

Minister of Justice, or the Premier to make even the most basic of decisions.

So I ask the minister: Do you now understand the full effect of your harmful

cuts to our justice system?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, as Attorney General, I have full confidence in

the prosecution service in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and so can

the people of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the cuts you refer to, all those positions were replaced. There

were also additional vacancies that were filled and, in addition, there was

another position placed in Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

Mr. Speaker, the prosecution service in this Province of Newfoundland should

have the confidence of the people of this Province. It has the confidence of me

as Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: I would say that the Attorney General may have

confidence, but the people in the system do not have confidence in you,

Minister, and the positions are still vacant and they have not been advertised

the full positions.

Justice officials in Alberta have said that they are getting a lot of calls

from lawyers in our Province since this government imposed cuts on our system.

We have been told that the cuts from Budget 2013 expose every front-line Crown

prosecutor in our Province to an increased likelihood of an avoidable error and

professional liability.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. A. PARSONS: So I ask the minister: While you hide behind the rhetoric

and spin, what do you have to say to the lawyers who are fleeing this Province

to save their professional reputations?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, in the Province of Newfoundland, a lot of

lawyers want to work for the Department of Justice and for the Attorney

General's office in our government. More lawyers are applying than ever before.

I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, that many years ago people did not come to work

for the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. Now most lawyers want to come

here because of what it offers, the opportunities that lawyers have, and they

are there to protect the public interests of the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, the Town of Stephenville has made it clear that

it cannot handle another regional facility like the West Coast Training Centre

and government is washing their hands of this important recreation facility.

I ask the minister: Will you consider this ill-conceived decision to deprive

the people of the Bay St. George Region of this important recreational asset?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Recreation and Culture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, when we were doing our Budget assessments this time around, we

had to look at facilities across the Province that this government supports. Mr.

Speaker, as I read earlier in my report, we have invested $172 million in sports

facilities across this Province.

Mr. Speaker, in the case of Stephenville, the facility was there. We have now

called the RFP in April for ninety days extension. We have had some interest in

this facility and we will do what we can to help support somebody to move in,

take over this facility like all other municipalities in the Province, and

operate their own recreation facility.

Like I said, we have invested $172 million helping areas build as we did in

Stephenville with the Stephenville Dome, Mr. Speaker. Just last year, I think it

was $900,000 we invested.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: I will just let the minister know, you were just talking about

the Canada Summer Games. You are going to deprive a lot of athletes on the West

Coast, especially in Bay St. George, an opportunity to train to make these teams

you were just touting for Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, the building

requires significant work, which you know users and groups in this region cannot

afford.

I ask the minister: Will the minister live up to his responsibility and

provide the residents of Bay St. George the same privileges as government

provides to other recreational facilities like Goose Bay and like St. John's?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, I want to correct one thing. It was the Aquatic

Centre in Stephenville we invested $900,000 in last year. This is a government

that does invest in sport and recreation around this Province. There comes a

time that government cannot operate facilities and program facilities in every

single community.

We just helped the member for St. Anthony build a beautiful new arena up

there. There is a new arena being built in Paradise. There is one being in

Carbonear. There is one being built in Conception Bay South. The taxpayers of

this Province will not be responsible for the day-to-day operations, Mr.

Speaker.

This is a government that certainly believes in recreation across this

Province. The $172 million, Mr. Speaker, surely sees to that. As individuals who

live here, we are expected to operate our own facilities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, on Monday, the Minister of Advanced

Education and Skills spoke about the excellent quality of service students

receive at the College of the North Atlantic. The Canadian Federation of

Students released a position paper today on the premature and risky cuts made to

programming at the college.

I ask the minister: If the college provides such excellent quality service,

how then do you explain cutting twenty-seven programs and over 100 faculty and

staff due to Budget cuts?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have always been very proud of the programs offered at the College of the

North Atlantic. The minister has stood in here day after day after day, as has

the Premier and the Finance Minister, going through the Budget exercise.

The primary focus at this point in time is looking to the future.

Newfoundland's economy has never been brighter than it is today, but we have an

obligation to the people of the Province to ensure that the money we are

investing in the college is directed in the right fashion so that we are

providing training opportunities to allow those who attend the college an

opportunity to avail of the job opportunities ahead, Mr. Speaker.

While the college is making some program changes, removing some programs,

they are also adding back new programs to match what is required in the labour

market.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Time for a quick question without

preamble.

MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Noseworthy says the colleges indeed have (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: No

preamble, a quick question, please.

MR. A. PARSONS: I ask the minister: How can you stand behind cuts to the

programs when your own consultant says that decisions are not being made

strategically?

MR. SPEAKER: Time for a quick response, the hon. the Minister of Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, the decisions that we make are very strategic.

They are based on the labour market outlook. The individual reference provides

input, as do hundreds and hundreds of other people and other groups. All of

their input is welcome. It does not mean we do what they ask us to do. We make

informed decisions based on the feedback we have received.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have heard reports of pending job cuts to Eastern Health. Will the

minister advise the House and the general public what positions will be cut and

what effect those cuts will have on the delivery of services?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, he has not given any specifics with regard to where he is

getting his reports. Mr. Speaker, as he would know from discussions that we have

had in this House, there are number of reviews underway.

We did an operational review over at Eastern Health about a year-and-a-half

ago now, and we have seen some very positive affects of that review. We are

currently in the process, Mr. Speaker, of undertaking two additional reviews.

One will be a clinical efficiency review; one will be a management review.

Mr. Speaker, at this point in time those reports are underway. In fact, one

of them is underway, the other one we are still laying down terms. Mr. Speaker,

we do not have any numbers at this point in time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

As the construction of government's Muskrat Falls' hydroelectric project

begins we see the economic arguments for it starting to unravel. The

European-based international energy agency reports that an oversupply of oil

from new sources across North America will keep oil prices low over the next

five years. This likely means decreased oil royalty revenues which weakens

government's reason for building Muskrat Falls in the first place.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Can she explain to the people of the Province

why she is forcing them to carry this burden?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have met extensively with energy advisors, Wood Mackenzie and PIRA on the

price of oil in the next number of years. We have looked at the outlook of

various agencies. There could be up to twenty-eight different reports, was the

last I have seen.

Essentially, Mr. Speaker, what we are being told is the price of oil that

Saudi Arabia wants per barrel is $100 per barrel and that even the cost of

producing shale oil is in the $65 to $75 range. So the oil companies are going

to get back their return on their investment, and, Mr. Speaker, there is no

reason to think that the price of oil will go down below that factored into $2.2

billion preference for Muskrat Falls.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The European-based international energy agency reports that a glut of oil

from new North American sources will lead to depressed oil prices. The

implications for the Province's ratepayers could be grim. Lower royalty revenue

could translate into more borrowing to complete Muskrat Falls and the burden of

repayment will be carried by the same ratepayers.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: What plan does she have to protect the people

of this Province if this internationally respected energy authority's

predictions are accurate?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There are currently approximately 90 million barrels of oil burned per day in

the world. It is expected that could go up to 110 million within the next five

to ten years. China currently burns approximately 10 million barrels of oil and

the Americans twenty. It is expected that the Chinese will reach the level that

the Americans are burning, Mr. Speaker.

What we have with shale oil, as outlined by Dr. Schwartz in the report

prepared for the PUB, is that shale oil is growing. That could lead somewhat to

self sufficiency for the United States, but the rest of the world still needs

oil. There is no indication, Mr. Speaker, that the basic principles of supply

and demand will not continue to apply.

That being the case, there is no reason to suspect that oil

will go below the cost that was factored into that $2.2 billion differential for

Muskrat Falls.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The 556 megawatt Kewaunee power station in Wisconsin is closing after forty

years of operation because utilities are switching to lower priced natural gas

generated power. As cheap power infiltrates the American energy markets the

rationale for the Maritime Link and the Muskrat Falls hydro project is

evaporating.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: What analysis has the Premier done to see if

Muskrat Falls power will be able to compete with looming American natural gas

generated power?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: What the Leader of the NDP forgets is that Muskrat Falls

was built to provide the cheapest electricity to the people of this Province.

Muskrat Falls is for us. We are not concerned about other markets. If we have

surplus power, then we will go to those markets and we will sell our product on

those markets.

The Minister of Finance and I, last year, went down and spoke to energy

advisors in New York and they told us there will always be a market there for

our power but that is not our concern. Our concern is providing the cheapest,

most reliable electricity to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It has to be proven that is going to be the cheapest electricity from Muskrat

Falls.

Mr. Speaker, with Hydro-Quebec predicting a huge glut of power that they

themselves will not be able to sell by 2020, I ask the Premier: What guarantee

has she that it will not undercut Muskrat Falls' rates for Labrador mining

companies power needs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make again, the point that the Minister of Natural

Resources made in response to the last question from the Leader of the NDP.

Muskrat Falls is primarily dedicated to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador

who have energy requirements.

Mr. Speaker, we have looked at the refurbishment and replacement of Holyrood,

the refurbishment or replacement that is required to use the oil that she is

talking about. We have used forecasts from experts around the world to inform

the forecast of the price of oil, Mr. Speaker. We have considered all of these

things, including wind, including tidal. Muskrat Falls is still the best answer

for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for The Straits White Bay North.

MR. MITCHELMORE: Mr. Speaker, this government claims there will be 70,000

job openings in the next few years, yet operates without a plan. This failure to

create a climate of opportunity is harming rural Newfoundland and Labrador. When

asked about rural successes, even today government emphasises the Coast of Bays

and their investment in many wharfs that created hundreds of jobs.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Natural Resources: When will his

department see the value in maintaining hundreds of long-term forestry and

potential mining jobs on the Great Northern Peninsula by investing in one wharf

in Roddickton Bide Arm?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Mr. Speaker, I said before in the House our programs since

coming to power in terms of economic development is second to none,

historically. We just revamped our programs to make it more conducive to small

and medium enterprises all over Newfoundland and Labrador in terms of creating

opportunity. That is opportunity driven by large projects, but, as well, driven

by supplier demand in terms of small companies and what is happening.

Throughout all of that, we are generating opportunities for our youth through

our post-secondary, through education and through those opportunities. Those

opportunities are being seen right here in the Province, seen all across the

country, that there is opportunity here and jobs are available.

I do note that just recently the NDP Finance critic was in town and her

conclusion, after speaking to the Chamber of Commerce, was Newfoundland has lots

of job opportunities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Member for The Straits White Bay North.

MR. MITCHELMORE: Mr. Speaker, certainly our rural communities are

suffering

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A further blow to our seasonally-based economy comes from the Department of

Advanced Education and Skills. Employment applications made for targeted wage,

workplace skills enhancement, and others are being told to wait until the end of

May while a new application is developed.

It is a critical time for the tourism providers to add employees to a $1

billion industry. This poorly planned change is discouraging.

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills reduce

employer barriers by permitting the use of the old application until the new one

is fully implemented?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely ridiculous. Day after day we

stand in this House and listen to the doom and gloom coming from the NDP. While

even their own colleagues on the federal scene recognize the tremendous things

happening in Newfoundland and Labrador as a result of the tremendous leadership

that this government has provided over the last ten years.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Advanced Education and Skills have made

significant changes in all aspects of what we are doing to make sure that we are

staying in tune with what is happening with the economy in Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Furthermore, I say to the member opposite, it is less than fifteen minutes

ago that my colleague behind me talked about what is happening in tourism and

that we are being recognized all across Canada. It is because this government

supports tourism, believes in tourism, and invests in tourism. We will continue

to do that. The JCP programs and all other programs will still be there to

provide the necessary support.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In their brutal spring Budget, government again slashed funding to the Human

Rights Commission, rendering it incapable of meeting its public education

mandate, and creating longer wait times for resolution of complaints. Once again

the most vulnerable people of the Province find their protection ripped away by

this government.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Justice: Will he reinstate the funding of

the Human Rights Commission to ensure vulnerable groups and people are

protected?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, the Budget exercise that we went through, as

people in Newfoundland and Labrador would recognize, was challenging and

decisions had to be made. I have every confidence absolutely every confidence

in the people who work with the Human Rights Commission that they will provide a

tremendous level of professional service as they always have.

I would say to the member opposite that if you check the investments in the

Human Rights Commission, the level of resources that this government still

continues to provide to that commission today far exceeds anything that was

there over the last five or six years, Mr. Speaker. We make those investments

because we believe in the work that the commission does, and we believe in the

continued support for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Mr. Speaker, their budget has been cut in half in the past two

years, and a waiting list of over two years to get resolution of complaints. Mr.

Speaker, if the new Office of Public Engagement is true to its mandate of real

consultation, it is going to learn some hard facts. Few are more anxious to have

their needs heard than the seniors of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister responsible: Will he commit to extensive

consultations with the seniors of this Province on the many issues they want

addressed and report the findings to the people of this Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Office of Public Engagement is all about consultation and

reaching out to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and the full demographics. In

regard to seniors, we have a Healthy Aging Seniors team who are out around the

Province and we hear back from them through the Department of Health in terms of

issues that are important to them.

There have been a number of programs that have been developed through Health

and Community Services to assist with seniors in our communities. Certainly

through Tourism, Culture and Recreation there have been a number of initiatives.

We have worked with seniors and continue to work with seniors through the Office

of Public Engagement.

Through those entities together, we continue to consult. Last year, I think

there were thirty-five reports received from the Rural Secretariat in terms of

issues important on the ground in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. We use that

and much other consultation in terms of driving economic and social policy in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's Centre, time for a quick question

without any

preamble, please.

MS ROGERS: What is the minister going to do to ensure the new ABE

instructors at the Waterford Centre will have the specialized training the

current ones have in order to do their work?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice, for a quick response.

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, we have made a commitment that we will continue to

provide ABE at the Waterford as it has been offered in the past. There is no

change in the curriculum the students will receive there. We recognize the

importance and we will continue to provide that service.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

MR. A. PARSONS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile, on a point of

order.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

During Question Period in an exchange between myself and the Attorney General

and the minister, the Minister of Finance could clearly be heard saying that I

was telling lies. Obviously such a statement is clearly unparliamentary and I

would ask that he retract the statement.

MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker did not hear such a comment, but I will commit

to review Hansard to see if the value of recording had recorded any such

comments and report to the House at the next sitting.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland

and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS the process of slickwater hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, injects

hazardous chemicals into rock formations to extract oil, and is polluting

groundwater and air across North America; and

potential environmental impacts of shale oil and gas extraction in Canada,

including fracking; and

WHEREAS Quebec, Nova Scotia, and a number of US states have halted fracking,

and others are introducing regulations specific to fracking; and

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Speaker has recognized the Member for St. John's East.

MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To continue:

WHEREAS it is incumbent upon the provincial government to ensure that our

natural environment is protected from harmful industrial processes;

WHEREPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to impose a moratorium on slickwater

fracking until it develops comprehensive regulations and ensures that each

proposed project undergoes a conclusive environmental assessment to determine

whether it is safe for the environment, the integrity of water supplies, and

human health.

As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I have risen in this House a number of times talking about this

petition. This petition comes from the people of Lark Harbour and York Harbour

down in the Bay of Islands, Mr. Speaker. There are about 200 signatures here of

people who had a meeting down in that area a couple of weeks ago.

My understanding is there were probably twenty-five or thirty people who were

there at the meeting, but there are about 200 here who are grossly concerned

with the industry progressing on a basis of where we do not know much about this

particular industry. They want to see more information released. They want to

see government, of course, impose a moratorium on this industry until we know

more and until there are comprehensive regulations developed for this industry.

We also know, too, at the same time that what this means as regards to the

environmental damages that can occur in this industry, what it can do to

tourism. We just heard the Minister of Tourism a little while ago talking about

tourism being a billion-dollar industry and employing some 13,000 employees. So,

we have to examine this and develop these regulations and be safe if we are

going to be going ahead to do this. We cannot recklessly go ahead without having

the proper regulations in place.

I just have to note, Mr. Speaker, as well, at the same time as saying all

this, that the Government of Quebec is getting set to impose another five-year

halt to fracking until the regulations are put in place so that this can be done

safely.

So, Mr. Speaker, I present this petition on behalf of the people of Lark

Harbour and York Harbour, and the other people who have signed this from outside

those particular regions, and thank them for expressing their concerns as

regards to the advent of this industry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland

and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS residents of Newfoundland and Labrador have not been provided with

detailed evidence providing justification for government's decision to remove

Adult Basic Education from the College of the North Atlantic; and

WHEREAS residents of Newfoundland and Labrador are concerned that

government's decision to remove ABE from the College of the North Atlantic will

lead to a decline in already low provincial literacy rates; and

WHEREAS residents of Newfoundland and Labrador are concerned that

government's decision will limit access to ABE services in remote regions; and

WHERAS residents of Newfoundland and Labrador are concerned that government's

decision will result in a decline in the availability of supports to assist ABE

learners; and

WHEREAS government's research shows that educational attainment is the most

important determinant of earnings and sustained attachment to the labour market.

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to provide the full details of the

enrolment, graduation, and funding analyses that were carried out to justify the

decision to cut Adult Basic Education at College of the North Atlantic.

As in duty bound your petitions will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is accurate to say that there have been over 2,000

petitions, individual petitioners who petition the House of Assembly about this

particular issue. This one has petitioners from Grand Falls, Bishop's Falls, St.

Jacques, Deer Lake, Little Burnt Bay, Grand Falls-Windsor, Wooddale, Windsor,

and so on, Mr. Speaker.

The Canadian Federation of Students released a brief earlier today arguing

against these cuts, again presenting certainly a compelling argument to rescind

this decision. Some of the most vulnerable people in this Province are those who

do not have a high school completion, who have not completed senior high school.

Adult Basic Education is one of the primary mechanisms for them to get their

high school equivalency so that they can have an opportunity to get a decent

job, to participate in the labour market, I say to the Member for Mount Pearl

North, and to take advantage of the things that are going on in our economy.

This decision denies them that.

There are lots of people out there who are very anxious about where this is

all going to turn. I think the onus is on the government to provide these

details to the public. People want to know why it is you made this decision. You

keep talking about how this is better, it is going to be better that it is

privatized. Show the evidence. Show the people the evidence. Open the books.

Government talks about transparency and openness and being accountable for

decisions, show that. Show that, I say to the Minister of Justice. Show that and

release this information.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, a petition to the hon. House of Assembly of the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of

the undersigned humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS the offshore of the West Coast of the Island of Newfoundland is

recognized as a region containing potentially billions of barrels of oil; and

WHEREAS hydraulic fracturing could be an accepted and effective method of

petroleum discovery and exploration, and is compatible with the protection of

the natural environment and water sources when executed within the context of a

comprehensive regulatory framework; and

WHEREAS the petroleum exploration sector needs the certainty and confidence

of a stable regulatory regime; and

WHEREAS with that regulatory oil discovery and oil industry could provide

unprecedented economic opportunity and bring people home to a currently

economically challenged area; and

WHEREAS the undersigned support properly regulated exploration and

development of the oil and gas resource in the Province;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to

introduce a regulatory framework immediately under which hydraulic fracturing

could proceed safely, and move this industry forward in Western Newfoundland.

WHEREUPON your petitioners hereinafter pray.

Mr. Speaker, this is a plea for people who are approximately an hour or so

North of where Gros Morne National Park is. I think it is important to bring it

to the attention of government, of members opposite, that forces are really

coming together to oppose exploration in our Province. Forces are coming

together.

People from within our Province are reaching out to others. They are reaching

out to UNESCO to attempt to have designation of Gros Morne National Park called

into question in order to challenge hydraulic fracturing.

No drilling is contemplated or permitted in Gros Morne National Park. Yet,

people who are opposed to development in our Province generally, and who are

opposed specifically in a region that I represent, will reach out to others in

order to bring pressure to bear to set back the chances of people for economic

development in my region. This is a plea for government to move forward with

regulations, and put them in place so that industry can have an assurance that

they can proceed properly.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland

and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS mental health issues often start showing in adolescence, making it

hard for young people coping with these issues to stay in school; and

WHEREAS ABE students come to the Waterford Hospital ABE program with mental

health issues and negative experiences in the school system and need extra

supports in order to succeed; and

WHEREAS the Waterford ABE program is not just an offering of college courses

but a partnership between health and education to provide students with the

counselling and learning supports they need to succeed; and

WHEREAS the Waterford ABE program also helps students transition to other

college or university programs, and many of the ABE graduates have gone on to

higher education and successful careers; and

WHEREAS if the Waterford ABE program is closed, most of the students will not

transfer to private ABE programs but will instead lose the chance for education

and a better life and will cost the system more;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to ensure that the Waterford Hospital ABE

program remain in place.

As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, the petition that I have here was a petition that was done by

the students of the ABE program at the Waterford. We know that we have heard in

the House that in fact the program has been saved but we still do not know, and

the students do not know, how they will be taught and who will be teaching them.

The interesting thing about this program, Mr. Speaker, is that it is a very

specialized program with comprehensive wraparound services. It is a partnership

that has been going on for thirty years. It is not a new program. It is not a

pilot program. It has been going on for thirty years where we have the health

sector and the College of the North Atlantic working together to help these very

vulnerable students, students with very specialized needs, and they have been

successful. That is the thing, Mr. Speaker, they have been incredibly

successful. They have the expertise.

All we know right now in what has been said to the centre is that we have

saved the building. The program will happen in the building, but there is no

guarantee that the new instructors will have any experience or expertise, or

specialized training in working with people with severe we are not talking

about minimal mental health issues. We are talking about people with very severe

mental health issues who really need specialized teaching and specialized

training.

We know that this program is important, the government knows that this

program is important and has said they will remain at the Waterford Centre, but

it is more than a building. It is more than a collection of computers. It is

instructors who are experts in this area.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Your time has expired.

The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a petition: To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of the

undersigned residents of Newfoundland and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS students of the Adult Basic Education program at the College of the

North Atlantic do not wish to attend privatized educational facilities; and

WHEREAS College of the North Atlantic has the most accredited Adult Basic

Education program in Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS students are concerned as to the availability of private institutions

and whether or not they can accommodate additional students;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to reverse this damaging decision to

students and reinstate the Adult Basic Education programming at the College of

the North Atlantic.

As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I believe this may be the third day in a row that I have entered

this petition. Today we had a noteworthy news conference, a release of a policy

paper by the Canadian Federation of Students, a position paper, and that was

dealing with the College of the North Atlantic cuts.

Basically, what we see here is that there has been a $15 million cut which

will eliminate twenty-seven programs across sixteen campuses, reducing the

capacity by 702 seats. The figures they have here is that 143 jobs may be

directly affected. Now, that may change with this new program, but again, we

have well over 100 cuts here.

We have well over 800 students enrolled in the college's ABE program and many

of them are individuals who are on the Income Support Program, people that this

government's job is to transition them into the labour market. The fact is, we

all know, according to the government's White Paper, that individuals on Income

Support have barriers to their education; they sometimes come from the most

vulnerable populations. Here we are putting them there, but using these false

calculations to show why the college has a lower graduation rate.

I think this ties into a number of issues in the department. Another one that

was brought up was Income Support. When we talk about Income Support, the fact

is there is no case management whatsoever going on and that ties right into this

Adult Basic Education.

Again, it is a pleasure to stand and represent the people of my district and

the districts across the Province when I enter this petition dealing with Adult

Basic Education which affects every one of us across this Province, in the

majority of districts of this Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, a petition to the hon. House of Assembly for

the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition

of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS home care allows the elderly and people with disabilities to remain

within the comfort and security of their own homes. Home care also allows people

to be discharged from the hospital earlier; and

WHEREAS many families find it difficult to recruit and retain home care

workers for their loved ones; and

WHEREAS the PC Blue Book 2011, as well as the 2012 Speech from the Throne,

committed that government would develop a new model of home care and give people

the option of receiving that care from family members; and

WHEREAS government has given no time commitment for when government plans to

implement paying family caregivers;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to

implement a new home care model to cover family caregivers.

As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, this is a daily occurrence for most members I am not sure

about other members, but as recently as this morning my office dealt with two

calls from people with issues, people who require home care, people who are

approved for home care, people who have family members working in home care. In

some cases, people who are just looking so that there is additional time for

respite, just for people to have a day or two off in a week.

It is not reasonable to try to care for somebody seven days a week. If you

are a qualified family home care provider, in one instance the mother is

provided with five days even though the recipient, the client, is entitled to

seven days, the mother is eligible to work for five days and the next two days

then are not covered because he is being covered by a family care giver who he

is related to, which is completely unfair. This lady who is past sixty years of

age is expected to work five days and then work two days without pay. Clearly,

she would do this for her son; however, it is not realistic just to keep on

going and going and going day after day after day, week after week after week,

and not have time for a person to have time off for personal attention for

things that he or she needs to do.

Even simple tasks such as getting out to buy groceries in small communities,

getting out to do banking, getting out to have your vehicle serviced, Mr.

Speaker. This is a plea from the people not something that has been denied,

not something that has not been promised but something that has, in fact, been

promised. There is an appropriation in this year's Budget to cover this

particular promise, but government is just simply not moving forward on it.

This is a plea from these individuals to get on with the promise, satisfy the

concerns of these people, and honour the commitment that was made.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I move, seconded by the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural

Development, that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole

to do from the Order Paper, Order 2,

An Act To Amend The Revenue Administration

Act No. 3, Bill 7.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded the House resolve itself into a

Committee of the Whole that I do now leave the Chair.

All those in favour of the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.

Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Verge): Order, please!

The Committee of the Whole will be considering Bill 7.

A bill, "An Act To Amend The Revenue Administration Act No. 3". (Bill 7)

CHAIR: Shall clause 1 carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, clause 1 carried.

CHAIR: Shall clause 2 carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, clause 2 carried.

CLERK:

Be it enacted by the Lieutenant-Governor and House of Assembly in

Legislative Session convened, as follows.

CHAIR: Shall the enacting clause carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, enacting clause carried.

CLERK:

An Act To Amend The Revenue Administration Act No. 3.

CHAIR: Shall the title carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, title carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the bill without amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, that the Committee report having passed the bill without amendment,

carried.

CHAIR: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KING: Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I move, seconded by the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural

Development, that the Committee do now rise and report Bill 7.

CHAIR: The motion is that the Committee rise and report Bill 7.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, that the Committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit

again, Mr. Speaker returned to the Chair.

MR. SPEAKER (Wiseman): The hon. the Member for Lewisporte.

MR. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, the Committee of the Whole have considered the

matters to them referred and they have directed me to report Bill 7 carried,

without amendment.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair of Committee of the Whole reports that the

Committee have considered the matters to them referred, and have directed him to

report Bill 7 without amendment.

When shall the report be received?

MR. KING: Now.

MR. SPEAKER: Now.

When shall the bill be read a third time?

MR. KING: Now.

MR. SPEAKER: Now.

On motion, report received and adopted. Bill 7 ordered read a third time

presently, by leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KING: Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board, that Bill 7 do now be read a third time.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a

third time.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Revenue Administration Act, No. 3.

(Bill 7)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill is now read a third time and it is ordered that

the bill do pass and its title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Revenue Administration Act, No. 3",

read a third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KING: Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Environment and

Conservation, Motion 4, pursuant to Standing Order 11 that this House not

adjourn at 5:30 p.m. today, Thursday, May 16, 2013.

I further move, Mr. Speaker, seconded by the Minister of Environment and

Conservation, Motion 5, pursuant to Standing Order 11 that this House not

adjourn at 10:00 p.m. today, Thursday, May 16, 2013.

MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved and seconded that pursuant to Standing

Order 11 that the House not adjourn at 5:30 p.m. on Thursday, May 16, 2013.

It is further moved that the House do not adjourn at 10:00 p.m. on Thursday,

May 16, 2013.

All those in favour of the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KING: Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, at this time I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance and

President of Treasury Board, that the House do resolve itself into a Committee

of the Whole to debate Motion 1, Bill 3, a resolution respecting the imposition

of taxes on tobacco.

MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved and seconded that the House do now adjourn

itself into a Committee of the Whole and that I do now leave the Chair.

All those in favour of the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against?

Motion carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.

Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Verge): Order, please!

The Committee of the Whole will now consider Bill 3.

Resolution

"That it is expedient to bring in a measure respecting the imposition of

taxes on tobacco."

CHAIR: Shall the resolution carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, resolution carried.

A bill, "An Act To Amend The Revenue Administration Act". (Bill 3)

CLERK: Clause 1.

CHAIR: Shall clause 1 carry?

The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Yes, Mr. Chair, smoking clearly is a really irrational act.

Obviously it is completely irrational because a person consumes a substance and

it results in a lifelong addiction, a very powerful addiction, something that

has been said to be very difficult to break. While I have no issue with

increasing the level of taxation on smoking and on cigarettes, I would like to

know more about what this government proposes to do with the tax revenues for

smoking cessation policies.

still as recent as 2011, in the order of 12 per cent of people between fifteen

and nineteen years of age still smoke. Obviously all of the anti-smoking

campaigns still result in a significant number of young people taking up

smoking.

I would like to ask the minister: What anti-smoking program, if any, is in

place or will be put in place with these funds to address people not beginning

to smoke?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. KENNEDY: (Inaudible) and it is the first time there has been an

increase since 2009. If you look at R-15.01, the 2009 Statutes, the tax was

calculated as nineteen cents a cigarette. Now we have raised it by 1.5 cents.

What we looked at, Mr. Chair, was the cost across the country. We looked at

the other jurisdictions. After this increase, people will be paying 20.5 cents

per cigarette. In PEI, they currently pay 22.5 cents per cigarette; Nova Scotia

was 23.52 cents a cigarette; New Brunswick is lower at nineteen cents; Manitoba

is twenty-nine cents a cigarette; Saskatchewan is twenty-five cents; and Alberta

is twenty cents.

When we looked at how we would raise the tobacco tax, we decided that 1.5

cents a cigarette was a reasonable amount. In Manitoba and Saskatchewan, the

latest increase was four cents a cigarette. Manitoba went from twenty-five cents

to twenty-nine cents and Saskatchewan went from twenty-one cents to twenty-five

cents. Nova Scotia went from 21.52 to 23.52 cents.

Mr. Chair, we looked at various types of taxation. As I have spoken about in

this House on a number of occasions, and I expect to speak about it a little

later on today, we looked at whether or not we would raise personal income tax.

We looked at the creation of an extra bracket. We looked at whether or not we

would raise the HST as has been done by some other provinces. We felt the effect

on people, all members of our society, could be detrimental by raising the HST.

We felt families especially would be affected and middle-income earners would be

affected by raising the personal income tax.

Then we looked at the issue of tobacco tax, and we felt this was an area

where there has not been an increase in a period of time, that we could impose

an increase. Mr. Chair, the money that comes from that will go to general

revenues. That is the way this works.

The money that comes to us from the Newfoundland Liquor Corporation in terms

of the profits that are made with the Liquor Corporation, they also go into

general revenue. The theory behind going into general revenue is that then

government can choose what services it wishes to fund. For example, Mr. Chair,

with the Atlantic Lotto Corporation, we also get money from them and that goes

into general revenue.

In terms of funding programs, that is left to the department in general to

come forward, whichever department is affected to come forward. If they wish to

see a program brought in, then that program comes forward in the Budget. Money

is sought and the program can either be funded or not.

So, it is not as simple as saying, well what about the Minister of Health

will have to speak to the smoking cessation program. I understand there is money

provided to groups who deal with smoking, such as the Newfoundland and Labrador

there is a smoking alliance, I think, and then the Lung Association. We should

have actually, when I look at it now we could have probably raised it another

couple of cents a cigarette.

From my perspective as the Minister of Finance, this is a way to raise money.

It has not been done with cigarettes since 2009. We saw that this would not be a

significant increase in terms of, compared to some of the other provinces with

the four cent increases. It keeps us in line with other provinces, where Quebec

and Ontario are currently the cheapest in the country. We did not raise the

taxes on the grams, or the fine cut grams because that is already fairly high.

So we decided to look at the cigarettes alone to bring them in line with the

rest of the actually, they are still lower than the rest of the country.

It will generate, Mr. Chair, approximately $8 million. I think the argument

is no different than say with the Liquor Corporation, that there should be money

go to a special program for people who suffer from alcoholism. We use our

government funding, the general revenue, to support the Humberwood program in

Corner Brook, but that is not only related to alcohol. It is also related to

other kinds of addiction.

We also then fund the youth programs. We fund the new addiction centre in

Harbour Grace that will again deal with all kinds of addictions, whether it be

alcohol or drugs. I am not aware of people who are addicted to cigarettes going

to these treatment centres but there is probably nothing to stop it if the

principles to be applied are the same.

From my perspective, we are in a situation, Mr. Chair, where we have a

significant deficit. The deficit is still very significant at $563 million. We

had to come up with ways to reduce that deficit and this was one of the ways we

looked at.

As I indicated when we talked about the clearance certificate last week, when

we talked about the Labrador Border Zone, we went through all of the programs in

the department, looked at various types of taxes and fee increases. We looked at

what would have an effect on different groups of people and we looked at what

would affect people in our society as a whole.

I have oftentimes heard the members opposite talk about a smoking cessation

program, but I do not know exactly what they are talking about. Oftentimes a lot

of people who deal with addiction are dealing with it through other programs,

such as Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotic Anonymous.

This money will go into general revenue. The Minister of Health or any other

minister then comes to the Minister of Finance during the Budget process saying

these are programs we would like to fund. I am not in any way diminishing the

effect of tobacco on society. Certainly, Mr. Chair, if an increase can deter

people, young people especially from smoking, well and good. What we have to

look at when we live in a society, if you are going to have substances that are

legal then people have to have the opportunity to make their own choices,

whether it be with alcohol, whether it be with tobacco. People have to choose

and they have the right to choose.

Now, we do know statistically that with alcohol especially, and the member

opposite would know, who asked the question, we have seen what goes through our

courts. We hear all the talk of alcohol and drugs in our courts but it is still

a significant portion. At least when I was still practicing, a significant

portion of what was occurring in our courts, the main drug that was causing a

lot of it was alcohol.

We do not, Mr. Chair, because there are a certain percentage of our people

who use alcohol who are going to become addicted to a substance or who are going

to drink to excess, we do not thereby ban everyone from having that substance.

Our society does not operate like that. I think we have seen from the

prohibition back in the 1920s and 1930s that it certainly did not work.

In this case, we had to look raising revenues. I am aware also that there

could certainly be an argument, well no matter how much we raise the price

certain people are not going to stop smoking or stop drinking. That is fair

enough, but if there are health related questions or smoking cessation programs,

I am not aware of what the Minister of Health has looked at recently. I am not

aware what is going on across the country, but in this particular case we tend

to, as a government, look at addiction as a whole and prefer to use the monies

that come into general revenue to build facilities that can have a significant

impact on all members of our society.

Also, when you start compartmentalizing, because I will tell the member

opposite, when I was the Minister of Health we did look at it seemed at first

glance to be a good argument that money from gambling should go to treating

gambling, that money from alcohol should go to treating alcoholism, but when you

take a more global perspective, it does not really stand up.

During the Budget process each department will come in with their programs,

whether they be Education, Health, Municipal Affairs, Environment, or Natural

Resources and government has all of these laid out. The process will begin with

the number of asks from each department and we will have a figure from each

department as to what they are looking for. The departments will prioritize

their requests.

When they prioritize those requests we will then look at what can be funded

and what cannot. Sometimes we have to look at, well, what can take place this

year and what can take place next year? What can we fund this year? So it is up

to each department to determine where their priorities lie.

I think it would be, not necessarily as much inappropriate, as not consistent

with the way budgeting is done in our government. The only government I am aware

of in terms of how we budget, to say that we should have specific money go to

this because we have a certain tax. It would become very difficult to run a

government where that kind of argument was being made.

For example, the Minister of Health and the Minister of Education come

forward. They say these are the requests this year. These are the programs we

have, and that is what we went through with this review. We looked at, what can

we afford this year? What new programs do we need?

I do not think it is any surprise to members opposite that health care and

new health care treatments are at the top of the list. They really become

important. New cancer drugs and other drugs are always something every year.

There are new ones that come up, at least since I have been here, and they have

to take a significant priority.

Then you have to look at education, as we have been doing. Well, how do you

keep the teachers in the classroom? I am not diminishing the arguments made for

these kinds of programs. I am not saying they are not something that cannot be

looked at. I am simply saying that from the perspective of this bill, this is a

bill we felt we could now raise the taxes somewhat and I think we took a very

moderate approach.

I was aware at the time that we brought the Budget in we could have raised

the taxes more. We were aware of what was going on in other provinces, but we

did not want to. It is like raising the price of alcohol. It does not matter how

much sometimes you raise it, people are not going to stop drinking. So that

deterrent effect by raising the price is not necessarily an argument.

From the Minister of Finance's perspective, this is a tax that brings in

revenue. It is tax that when we looked at it allowed us the latitude to raise

money. It is a rather modest sum when you have a deficit of $563 million, but it

is $8 million we expect can be raised. As I have indicated, we did not raise the

price on the cans or fine-cut tobacco, as it is referred to, because that cost

is already in line with or higher than the rest of the country.

I guess the short answer in a long-winded fashion is we do not earmark

revenues that come from a particular source for a particular program. Could it

be done? Possibly. There is no reason it could not be, but you would be looking

at a more isolated picture as opposed to that global picture that is required as

we try to do our budgeting process.

The revenue is collected, they go into the Consolidated Revenue Fund, and

expenditures are made from that account. We look at the amount of money we have

and that is why the amount of money we get from oil is so important. We look at

the amount of money. That is why oil production is so important; that is why the

price of oil is so important. These are the revenues we expect to have.

What can we do with those revenues? These are our expenditures. Are there new

programs that we have to have this year? Even in this year's Budget you will see

there are a lot of new programs. There is a lot of new construction because

there are still places in this Province that obviously need schools, that

obviously need long-term care facilities, and that obviously need roads.

It is always a difficult prospect in the Budget and part of the role of the

Minister of Finance is to say to every minister and I can tell you that the

ministers come forward. They believe in their programs. No one wants to give

anything up. I forget the questions asked by the Minister of Tourism today, but

in terms of the marketing campaign, the Minister of Tourism fought vigorously

and advocated strongly not to make those cuts. It is again a question of

priority and perspective. In a Budget such as this year's, we had to make

choices.

That is the reason behind it. In terms of any questions as to the actual

programs we have, I will certainly see what we can do to have the Minister of

Health answer any questions there.

Thank you very much.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to take this opportunity to have a few remarks, ask a question

about this, and to respond to the Minister of Finance.

We often call these sin taxes, taxes on items like tobacco and alcohol. In

fact, if we had the unfortunate circumstance that we end up with a federal

Liberal government again, they actually want to legalize marijuana. If they get

their way, I assume they will tax that as well. Maybe somebody from the

Opposition caucus can tell us what the plan is. That is what I understand the

federal Liberals would do if they were the federal government. Like I said, I

suppose they would tax that the same way as you tax alcohol or tobacco.

The reason we tax these sorts of things is because we know they have

detrimental impact on one's health. There is a general acceptance in our society

in Newfoundland and Labrador and in other societies that we should tax this

behaviour.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. KIRBY: No, I say to the Member for Labrador West, because there are

consequences, negative ones, that are the outcome of things like smoking. The

obvious one is health care, so you want to pay for the added health care cost

that is associated with smoking. Of course, econometric analysis will show that

is the case and we have to have a way to pay for it, similar to alcohol usage as

well.

There is also recreation. So we tax tobacco and not only do you pay for

health care, you pay for stuff like the West Coast Training Centre, which I

understand the government is shutting down. Other things, like the hon. Member

for CBS was talking today about investments in stadiums and those sorts of

things, so we can get some money to pay for things like recreation and that sort

of thing.

Also, perhaps this is not referenced very often, but I think people would

accept the fact that there are costs to the justice system that are associated

with alcohol, for example. So we tax alcohol and that helps to pay for it. We

generally all agree on that. Perhaps smokers would disagree. Perhaps they would

disagree with having to pay more, but that is just the way it is. We have to

recoup the cost of smoking, if you will.

The Minister of Finance was talking about the nature of the addiction to

nicotine. It is interesting. My first university degree was in psychology and I

remember there was a course at Memorial University called Drugs and Behaviour.

In that course I learned there were studies done in the United Kingdom back in

the 1970s, I believe, that found nicotine was in fact more addictive than opium,

I say to the Member for Mount Pearl South; more addictive than opium. Shocking,

really, but that is the nature of the addiction to nicotine. It is that powerful

that people find it very difficult to quit.

The Minister of Finance was talking about he was not certain about these

smoking cessation therapies we often reference over here on this side. Just to

fill in some of the blanks on that, we are talking about things like the

nicotine patch. In some jurisdictions, if you get a prescription from your

doctor, you actually get the patch covered under your health care system; or in

some instances that is covered by your Blue Cross or whatever your private

medical insurance is.

Obviously in some provinces they also have which we do not want to do here

and this is not a suggestion for next year's Budget a health care tax as well,

like a levy that everybody pays every year, like $100. Everybody would pay that.

I am not suggesting we do that

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. KIRBY: but there is an acceptance that you would have that.

There is nicotine gum. Everybody is aware of that. There is a gum people can

chew, basically, to prevent them from having these nicotine cravings and wanting

to smoke. There are also oral tablets, so you can actually take a medicine

through a tablet form that can help you quit. So these are some of the smoking

cessation therapies that are out there. It is really important that we have

them.

I know government used to talk about it, and I do not hear as much about it

from government anymore, not since the last Premier left to go into the hockey

business. We do not talk about preventative care as much, or as much as I would

like to see. We can have taxes on things like tobacco that recoup some of the

costs, I say to the Member for Gander district, but you are not going to recoup

all of the cost, perhaps. The best way to save is to stop people from smoking, I

say to the Member for Gander district. Stop smoking, and then that would save

the money.

There are all sorts of things we can do, like investing in recreation, like

the West Coast Training Centre, I say to the Member for Port au Port. Investing

in that can help people live more healthily and to not have as much reliance on

the health care system.

I do not want to belabour that too much, but I think if we are going to tax

people for these things there is a certain onus on the Minister of Finance and

on the government to ensure that these monies are used for that purpose. It may

be difficult to do. It would be interesting to know whether or not government

are looking at it in that way, I say. Whether they are actually saying this

additional tax is going to be collected; it is X number of dollars. That is

going to what? What is it that the public is gaining through that tax,

specifically? We know it is going into government's coffers, but is it directed

towards some gain that we will all have?

The other thing I would like to know is whether or not government does have a

plan, and has looked at, in addition to levying an additional tax, the whole

question of nicotine cessation therapies and smoking cessation therapies.

Whether they are actually looking at whether there is a report or an analysis

that has been carried out to see whether or not we can save on the front end

rather than the back end. By that, I mean that we can save people's lives and

save the health care system by making sure that they have opportunities to give

up smoking. Is government actively looking at this whole question around smoking

cessation therapies?

I know our leader, the Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi, the Leader of the

New Democratic Party, has great passion about this issue. She has raised it in

the House of Assembly in debate repeatedly since she was elected initially in

2006. I know my colleague the hon. Member for St. John's Centre, who is the New

Democratic Party health care critic I say to the Member for Mount Pearl South,

has raised this issue as well with me and thinks it is particularly important.

I think we owe it to people to give them an opportunity to stop smoking. I

say to the Member for Mount Pearl North one time people would not believe that

you were going to stop people from smoking in bars and restaurants. People could

not believe that.

I tell you when I was a sea cadet, when I first went on a plane as a kid when

I was thirteen years old I will not tell you how long ago that was. When I

went on a plane first people were smoking on planes. Smoking was that acceptable

that people were smoking on planes. If you get on a plane these days, sometimes

you will look down and you see they still have an ashtray there. That is a

holdover from back then.

People did not believe you could stop people from smoking in bars, and it was

decried. People were saying, oh, bars are going to lose money or restaurants are

going to lose money. Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyone who

patronizes local small business downtown here in St. John's or in your

communities across Newfoundland and Labrador, you will know there has been no

detrimental impact. People's minds are starting to change about smoking, the

consequences of smoking, and the cost to us all.

I think some positive things have been done in the past. I think in some way,

whether people like it or not, this additional tax sends a message. It sends a

message that smoking is a detriment to one's health. In the least, government

and those of us here in the House of Assembly elected by people across

Newfoundland and Labrador, we do not think it is acceptable and there has to be

a consequence because of the cost we all bear as a result of smoking.

Thank you.

CHAIR: I forget your district name.

MR. JOYCE: Bay of Islands.

CHAIR: The Member for Bay of Islands.

I apologize.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chair, I understand you forgot who I was. That is what

happens when you are right quiet and no one even notices that you are in the

House. That is one of the drawbacks of not being involved in all the bantering

back and forth in the House of Assembly. You only stand up to speak on important

issues.

Mr. Chair, I am going to have a few words on this Bill 3 for a few minutes,

but before I do, I just ask for a small bit of leeway for a second. As we know,

this may be our last day in the House for the summer. I just want to wish

everybody on both sides of the House a safe and happy summer. I hope that

everybody, all their families, and all the residents around have a safe summer.

Mr. Chair, we hear some of the squabbling going back and forth, and sometimes

people, we as parliamentarians, get very passionate. I know there were some

times that there were questions brought up about members. I said it before and I

want to say it again, and this is a prime example of this, Bill 3: I do not

think there is any member in this House of Assembly who is not trying to do the

best for their constituents. I honestly feel that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: There are times we banter back and forth and times we get

passionate and that just shows our passion. I can assure the people out who are

listening today and the people from Bay of Islands and the people from Corner

Brook, at no time would I ever question anybody's integrity and motives in this

House, Mr. Chair. I really, honestly, truly feel that we may have different ways

on how to get about issues. There are a lot of times that we argue on ways, but

sometimes, at the end, we always think that it is best for the people we

represent and the reason why we are so passionate about some issues.

This is one, Mr. Chair, Bill 3, as we know it is to raise tax on smoking.

None of us in this House and I am sure there may be a few people who indulged

before in smoking, or maybe still do - there is no one in this House can say

that if this can discourage any youth or anybody from smoking that none of us

are supportive.

Mr. Chair, I will be voting for this here because I think it is an issue much

bigger than just raising the cigarettes by one point five cents; this is an

issue of health. This is an issue for all the people in Newfoundland and

Labrador and this is an issue for our youth. If we can in any way discourage any

youth sometimes we hear the comments why don't you raise it so high that

people cannot afford to buy cigarettes. I go back a few years, Mr. Chair, when I

was knocking around and smoking was much more prevalent than it is today.

I had the blessing that I never smoked. I had a real good friend by the name

of Bobby Hearn, and the two of us tried making one, one night. It was down in

St. Lawrence, at soccer. We were fifteen years old. We tried it and both of us

got sick, and neither one of us smoked after.

Mr. Chair, I am lucky that I never smoked at any time. Mr. Chair, I

understand the problems that people have once they started the addiction, the

physical addictions to smoking.

On health care itself, the cost on health care because of smoking is great.

We all know that smoking causes cancer and it is a very big drag on the health

care system and the dollars in Newfoundland and Labrador because of this.

Mr. Chair, cessation is something that we should also look at as a government

and as a Province to try to help in some way to curb the smoking. Mr. Chair,

this is something that we can try and if it works which it does work; it is

just that we have to implement it. We can decrease the smoking which hopefully

then will help in the long run in our health care funding, Mr. Chair, all

throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, which will bring down the burden on health

care and the cost of health care.

This bill here is a tax on cigarettes which none of us disagrees with.

Absolutely no one here disagrees with this increase I am sure because, Mr.

Chair, it is going to help hopefully, decrease smoking. It does add a very small

bit of revenue to the Province, but the intent here is to try to decrease

smoking.

I know over the years, Mr. Chair, I go back, and I think it was Dr. Hubert

Kitchen who brought in the banning on smoking at bars back years ago. I know the

big uproar at the time. The big uproar saying oh you cannot do that

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: - it is going to ruin the industry. Everything is going to be

ruined if you bring in the banning of bars.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

CHAIR: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chair, those were some of the steps that were taken back

then. I know all throughout, there was always steps made by all levels of

government, and all governments try to curb smoking and try to help mainly the

youth,. If there is any way that we can use some of the funding raised. I know

there is an education program by the Lung Association and by this government to

try to help youth not to get hooked on cigarettes at a very young age.

Mr. Chair, I know the Minister of Tourism today announced the Canada Games

going to Quebec. Once you get people involved with sports that usually helps

because of the peer pressure and people in the sports. We have to find a way to

reach the young people so that as they get older they do not have to kick the

habit if they do not get involved.

If there is any way for the minister here to use some of this funding to even

bulk up the funding that you are using for the youth to prevent youth from

smoking at a very young age and also, Mr. Chair, in the long term if we can

help adults to get away from it. I am a firm believer that the majority of

people before they realize that they are addicted to it, and once they realize

it, the majority of people will love to be able to kick the habit of smoking,

would love to be able to do it.

We, as a government, have to ensure that we can do whatever we can, as

parliamentarians, to help people to try to get away from smoking, to kick the

habit, which is a very difficult habit to do. When you speak to anybody who

smoked, and anybody who smokes would testify to that.

Mr. Chair, this bill here I will be supporting. I will be voting for this

today. If I was the first one to say that if we raised the taxes there would be

no more smoking in the Province, I would be the first one to vote for it. I

think it would help people's health in the long run, it would help our health

care system, and it would also be better for the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Mr. Chair, I am going to have my seat. Once again I just want to assure the

people of the Bay of Islands and Corner Brook that when you see us bantering, it

is all because we are passionate.

I just want to wish everybody a great summer. Please be safe in your travels

because I know a lot of the ministers and a lot of government members will be

travelling back and forth. Have a safe summer. We will see you all back again in

the fall.

Mr. Chair, above all and I will just say in this closing about this bill, I

know a lot of times we ask questions back and forth. This is not a personal

issue when we banter back and forth over different bills. This is passion. This

is to try to get to an end goal which is going to be best for all

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Sometime we disagree, but this is not

personal. These are just issues and we just have a different philosophy in how

to get there.

Mr. Chair, I just wanted to wish everybody a safe summer and your families. I

will see everybody in November.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I heard the Member for St. John's North talk about the nature of

cigarette smoking and the nature of the addiction. While I do not know if

perhaps there is empirical evidence on that, but there is no question about the

seriousness of the addiction.

What we have, Mr. Chair, is a situation where many of the addictions such as

alcohol, drugs, and gambling can lead to people getting entangled with the legal

system. At first glance you would not think that could happen with cigarettes.

We do not see it as much in this Province now as we saw at one point, but there

is a significant black market in relation to cigarettes. There had been

significant penalties imposed a number of years ago trying to discourage people

from the illegal selling of cigarettes.

That is not again the primary reason here. I do not disagree with what I

heard the Member for the Bay of Islands or the Member for St. John's North

suggest. In terms of prevention, we would all like for a situation whereby the

health care system could be saved money.

There reaches a point as a government where you have to sit back and say how

do we use our revenues as best we can? It becomes very difficult to distinguish

from the types of taxes when you have taxes on tobacco and they should go to

smoking cessation, taxes on alcohol should go to alcohol treatment, profits from

Atlantic Lottery should go to gambling. You cannot do it like that, Mr. Chair,

because that is making judgment calls on what type of health problem is more

important than the other

A lot of times with addictions, Mr. Chair, you will see someone who is

addicted to one substance, whether it is alcohol and, or drugs, it can be also

smoking. Someone who is gambling can be addicted to alcohol. There is a

crossover between them.

What we have to do as a government is look at the treatment of addictions as

a whole. We have to look at the treatment in terms of our health care system. We

will also see where you addictions, whether it is tobacco combined with alcohol

or drugs combined with alcohol, there can oftentimes be mental illness. There

are symptoms that sometimes you do not know which is which. If you remove the

substance, you might remove the depression; however, the depression may remain.

So as a government, 40 per cent of our money is going towards the health care

system. The Minister of Health and her officials are the ones who are in the

best position to come forward and say these are the programs that need to be

funded and these are the priorities we have. If you did not prioritize within

the health care system, and I can say this, Mr. Chair, from my two years there,

then you will have no money left for anything. That is the nature of the health

care system.

So I do not disagree one bit with the preventative aspect. I do not disagree

one bit by trying to discourage smoking, the power walls, the cigarettes now

having to be kept behind certain screens, and the discouraging young people of

smoking; but people still do. I am not, again, like the Member for Bay of

Islands, nave enough to think that raising a tax on a cigarette by a

cent-and-a-half is going to stop smoking; nor am I nave enough to think that if

you doubled the price you are going to stop. This is a generational attitude, I

think, that has to take place.

I think it was the Member for St. John's North who talked about the smoking

on the airplanes. We can all remember that. Anyone can remember going into a bar

twenty years ago and all it was, was smoke. You see how society changes. Now,

people who smoke, there are very few places left for them to go. There are no

smoking rooms anymore that I am aware of, Mr. Chair. You certainly cannot smoke

on an airplane or in an airport. People become sensitive to it, quite to the

point now I do not smoke myself if you go into a hotel room where someone

has been smoking, you can smell the cigarette smoke.

Part of it is going to take time. I do believe children today in school are,

from an early age I know that the police forces, I think both police forces,

at least the school that my children went to here down at Bishop Field in St.

John's, they went in and did the DARE program, the drugs awareness, and it was a

very good program. At an early age, they are telling children about the impacts

of drugs and alcohol. I do not know if tobacco would have been a part of that. I

know teachers would always be talking about that. Then you have parents, Mr.

Chair, who are much more open about the effects of alcohol and drugs.

I really believe, and I think the Member for St. John's North is right on

this, if someone has an ongoing problem with alcohol or drugs you can get so

sick, to the point where you lose your job and you lose your family, whereby it

will kill you. Cigarettes take place much slower over a period of time and

people certainly obtain enjoyment. I am not aware of people losing their jobs

because they did not show up for work for smoking. You probably have to go out,

have a smoke break, and find a place to have a cigarette, but it does not have

that same impact as quickly.

Obviously, we have people who develop cancer. If you look at what is in a

cigarette, there does not appear to be anything very healthy in there. It seems

to be full of poison, but one could say the same about alcohol. Do we ban all of

these substances? Government cannot get into that, Mr. Chair. We cannot be at

the point where we can say you can no longer drink alcohol because a certain

proportion of the population will develop a problem. Most of the people who

consume alcohol, they get up, they go to work, and they have a glass of wine

with their dinner. There is no reason that these people should not be able to

enjoy that because of the risk posed to certain members of our society.

What we have tried to do as a government, again, is take the more global

picture over the last number of years, as we try to deal with the amounts of

money we put out into community groups, Mr. Chair, in terms of helping with

addictions. When I was the Minister of Health, I met with the Lung Association

and there was another smokers group, the Smokers' Helpline. I was personally

somewhat skeptical about the effectiveness of the Smokers' Helpline, but

apparently it is very real. They would get lots of calls so we continued to fund

that program.

When I was the Minister of Health, I did met with the I forget which group

it was that talked about smoking cessation, the types of programs mentioned by

the Member for St. John's North. Certainly, these were looked at, but again, I

cannot emphasise it enough. I am not saying it is fair, I am not saying there is

anything fair, but there is still an attitude out there that people who smoke,

drink, or use drugs choose to use those substances. Therefore, somehow or other

they are the victims of their own additions.

That question of whether or not the addiction is a disease, I do not know how

accepted that is in the medical community. I know the American Medical

Association accepts it as a disease, but we are still not at that point as a

society. So if you were to say to the majority of people in our society, should

we use money to pay for people, it could be diabetes, it can certainly be

cancer, all kinds of other diseases, they will say no; the person who smokes or

drinks are not the ones we should be using our money for.

Again, these are societal attitudes that will change over time, hopefully. As

you cannot smoke, or the lower the number of places you can smoke, hopefully it

will become more difficult. There is no question of the costs to the health care

system of smoking. I saw this, the minister, and I do not know if she has the

current statistics, but the cost of absenteeism through alcohol and drugs in our

work system throughout the country is in the billions of dollars.

We are seeing lots of great work out there. There are lots of community

groups. The Canadian Mental Health Association, for example, does great work. We

have seen Senator Kirby's group in Ottawa, the Canadian Mental Health

Commission, who do great work throughout the country.

So, it is going to take time. This tax here is simply, from my perspective as

the Minister of Finance, a way of raising money. We looked at raising the HST

and said we are affecting everyone then. Certainly, the Newfoundland Liquor

Corporation raised the prices of alcohol. So, as the Member for Bay of Islands

said, this is not going to stop people from smoking, nor is that the intent from

the Minister of Finance's perspective. It is a way of raising money, and it is

$8 million.

How that money is used, and how the Minister of Health comes forward with the

various programs that she wishes to fund this year, is a decision that has to be

made with her and her officials. I can tell you, from my experience over in

health, there are great doctors over there and great advisors, and decisions are

made based on what can benefit the people of our Province.

Those would be my comments in relation to this bill.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am happy to stand and speak to this bill. I think with this new tax, in

fact, what is happening is it is creating an incredible opportunity for us. Many

of us know about the dynamics of smoking because many of us in this House have

smoked at some point in our lives. Particularly my generation, or the generation

before, many of us started smoking when we were quite young and there was an

encouragement to smoke.

The interesting thing is most of us have to learn to smoke. Most of us can

remember that first cigarette. We would be coughing, sputtering, and getting

dizzy. It was not a natural thing to smoke, and in fact we had to get used to

it. Then once we got used to it, by the time we got used to it we were hooked,

and we do know how addictive cigarette smoking is.

Many of us talked about it as enjoyable. As a filmmaker I did a national

program on audiovisual aids to help quit smoking and I called it smokescreens.

Basically, it was looking at some of the best cessation audiovisual materials

around the world and also the books that help people to quit smoking.

As we learn to smoke, we also have to learn how to quit smoking. When we l