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November 19, 2014

41st Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2014-Nov-19 (PDF)

L029 - Wed 19 Nov 2014 / Mer 19 nov 2014

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 19 November 2014 Mercredi 19 novembre 2014

Orders of the Day

Public Sector and MPP Accountability and Transparency Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la responsabilisation et la transparence du secteur public et des députés

Safeguarding Health Care Integrity Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de sauvegarde de l’intégrité des soins de santé

Special report, Auditor General

Introduction of Visitors

Use of electronic devices

Oral Questions

Forest industry

Steel industry

Automobile insurance

Education funding

Justice system

Pan Am Games

Public transit

Health care

Tobacco control

Child care

Public transit

Federal-provincial fiscal policies

Wind turbines

Unemployment

Tobacco control

Deferred Votes

Public Sector and MPP Accountability and Transparency Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la responsabilisation et la transparence du secteur public et des députés

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Family health teams

OPP Commissioner’s Citation for Lifesaving

Taxation

Mental health services

Crohn’s and Colitis Awareness Month

Ontario Senior Achievement Awards

Climate change

Community Support Connections

Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease

Visitors

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills

Introduction of Bills

Agriculture Insurance Act (Amending the Crop Insurance Act, 1996), 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur l’assurance agricole (modifiant la Loi de 1996 sur l’assurance-récolte)

Lung Health Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la santé pulmonaire

Municipal Amendment Act (Election of Chair of York Region), 2014 / Loi de 2014 modifiant la

Loi sur les municipalités (élection du président de la région de York)

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

Holodomor Memorial Day

Bullying Awareness and Prevention Week

Agriculture industry

Holodomor Memorial Day

Bullying Awareness and Prevention Week

Agriculture industry

Bullying Awareness and Prevention Week

Holodomor Memorial Day

Agriculture industry

Petitions

Lyme disease

Alzheimer’s disease

Legal aid

Lyme disease

Missing persons

Health care

Legal aid

Diabetes

Employment standards

Shingles vaccine

Employment standards

Student work experience

Orders of the Day

Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de lutte contre la fraude et de réduction des taux d’assurance-automobile

Better Business Climate Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 visant à instaurer un climat plus propice aux affaires

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Public Sector and MPP Accountability and Transparency Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la responsabilisation et la transparence du secteur public et des députés

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 6, 2014, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 8,

An Act to promote public sector and MPP accountability and transparency by enacting the Broader Public Sector Executive Compensation Act, 2014 and amending various Acts / Projet de loi 8, Loi visant à promouvoir la responsabilisation et la transparence du secteur public et des députés par l’édiction de la Loi de 2014 sur la rémunération des cadres du secteur parapublic et la modification de diverses lois.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Pursuant to the order of the House on November 18, Ms. Matthews has moved second reading of Bill 8,

An Act to promote public sector and MPP accountability and transparency by enacting the Broader Public Sector Executive Compensation Act, 2014 and amending various Acts.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

I heard a no.

All those in favour, say “aye.”

All those opposed, say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Since there are five people standing, this will be deferred until after question period.

Second reading vote deferred.

Safeguarding Health Care Integrity Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de sauvegarde de l’intégrité des soins de santé

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 17, 2014, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 21,

An Act to safeguard health care integrity by enacting the Voluntary Blood Donations Act, 2014 and by amending certain statutes with respect to the regulation of pharmacies and other matters concerning regulated health professions / Projet de loi 21, Loi visant à sauvegarder l’intégrité des soins de santé par l’édiction de la Loi de 2014 sur le don de sang volontaire et la modification de certaines lois en ce qui concerne la réglementation des pharmacies et d’autres questions relatives aux professions de la santé réglementées.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member for London–Fanshawe has eight minutes left on her docket.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I am pleased to rise today to share my thoughts and the thoughts of my caucus on Bill 21, the Safeguarding Health Care Integrity Act.

This bill, as I understand it, enacts the Voluntary Blood Donations Act, which bans payment, reimbursement and compensation for blood and plasma in Ontario. Further, this bill seeks to implement only one recommendation from the Thiessen review into the chemotherapy system by authorizing the Ontario College of Pharmacists to inspect and license hospital pharmacies.

While there is much good in this bill, I don’t believe that it goes far enough, and my colleagues and I will seek to strengthen it in committee for the benefit of all Ontarians.

In its current state, our health care system has been shown to have dangerous loopholes that could allow for private, for-profit plasma clinics to pay blood donors. We have inadequate oversight in our hospital pharmacies and group purchasing organizations.

For me, this bill is personal, and it is personal for all Ontarians who have been waiting for this government to respond to the Thiessen review since the underdosing of more than 1,200 patients at four hospitals in Ontario and one in New Brunswick in 2013. Of those 1,200 patients, 691 cancer patients in my hometown of London received watered-down chemotherapy treatments, and of those, 40 were children. Further, more than 130 Ontarians lost their lives during this underdosing tragedy.

The most frustrating part of this tragedy is that it was entirely preventable. We all watched in shock as federal and provincial health officials scrambled to address the startling lack of oversight in the increasing practice of Ontario hospitals to outsource their pharmacy work.

For example, at the time of the tragedy, the Minister of Health claimed to the London Free Press that she was only made aware of this on March 30, 2013. However, the president of the London Health Sciences Centre said he was made aware of the underdosing on March 22, 2013. The health minister was also unable to answer questions about who should be responsible for the oversight of drugs that are brought into Ontario hospitals.

Finally, it was uncovered that the outsourcing of drugs to Ontario’s hospitals had been happening for more than five years, with no one in charge of quality control or regulation. It was my NDP colleague from Nickel Belt who held the Premier’s and the Minister of Health’s feet to the fire by demanding they take action and implement oversight. This is the same lack of oversight that brought us the Ornge air ambulance scandal, which saw Ontario’s public purse robbed of over a billion dollars.

Time and time again, this government has been caught entirely unaware of operations within its own ministries. This, compounded by the Liberal government’s haste to outsource and privatize our vital public services, makes for a nasty recipe for failure.

My concern now, and the concern of those in my riding of London–Fanshawe, is how to restore public trust in our health care system, a system that continues to be plagued by lack of oversight and appalling gaps in its regulatory framework. Further, it also acknowledges that there is a glaring lack of transparency and oversight in group purchasing organizations. I do believe that this bill is a start in the right direction, but so much more is needed.

For example, regulation of hospital pharmacies, recommended by the Thiessen report, is a good start. However, this oversight would not have prevented the diluted chemotherapy drug tragedy from taking place. This offers little solace to the families in London who are still waiting for answers and assurances that they can trust our public health care system.

I also want to spend some time addressing how this bill seeks to amend sections of the Regulated Health Professions Act. Since introducing this bill, the minister has been forced by New Democrats to agree to review the entire Regulated Health Professions Act.

This fall, it was revealed that 20 patients were infected during infection outbreaks at private clinics in Toronto, but the public was never told. It was also revealed that professional regulators are under no obligation to report to the authorities those individuals who are disciplined for professional misconduct and who may have committed a crime.

Initially, the Minister of Health refused to acknowledge that these were problems, saying that the colleges already had the tools they needed. However, two weeks later, he did a complete U-turn and ordered the Ministry of Health to help figure out how to review the Regulated Health Professions Act.

That’s what is also concerning. As I mentioned, this minister is unaware of many of the loopholes or lack of oversight in departments, and health care is one of those ministries we cannot take for granted. We need to make sure there are systems in place so that people’s health isn’t compromised.

After the infections in the private clinics were made public, the minister at that point, two weeks later, did a complete U-turn and ordered the Ministry of Health to help figure out how to review the Regulated Health Professions Act. We have to thank my NDP colleague from Nickel Belt. She has held this government to account and has been clear that it’s time for mandatory reporting to authorities and mandatory sanctions with respect to individuals who commit crimes, in order to better protect the public.

We are also calling for an open public review of the act by a legislative committee in order to gather important input from health care professionals, colleges and the public about the best way to amend this act. This review cannot be done in secret and cannot be done behind closed doors.

The need for appropriate and effective reporting is vital. We have seen, time and time again, how reporting alone does not ensure protections for Ontarians. For example, in my hometown of London last week, there was a fatal fire in a group home for those suffering from mental health issues and addictions. This group home had been known to the provincial guardians, emergency services and several other community groups and organizations, yet in spite of the knowledge and the reporting efforts, this tragedy ensued.

Reporting issues is an important step, but ensuring those reporting mechanisms have the teeth necessary to truly protect the public is a vital component that we are currently lacking. This is why my NDP colleagues and I will not stop holding this government to account in this Legislative Assembly, and making sure that the voices of our constituents are heard with regard to health care, affordability, jobs, and accountability, and holding this government to account for many of the things in which they have let this province down.

As I said, this bill is a small

part in the right direction, but there’s still a lot more work that this Liberal government can do to actually be fully transparent. I know that we talk about transparency and accountabilities, and those are words we’re throwing around, but there’s actually meaning to those words for the people of our ridings. They actually believe, when we say “transparency and accountability,” that it is transparent and this government will be held accountable.

When we bring legislation forward, let’s just not make it so that it’s a watered-down kind of meaningless piece of paper. Let’s make it legislation that actually has an effect and delivers the result to the constituents that we represent.

Accountability and transparency: Our constituents deserve that.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Ms. Soo Wong: I’m very pleased to rise this morning to respond to the member from London–Fanshawe.

I may be very blunt about this particular comment, Mr. Speaker, that the proposed Bill 21, the Safeguarding Health Care Integrity Act, if passed, will be dealing with two very important issues. It is a time-sensitive bill that was previously introduced by then-Minister of Health Deb Matthews on the order paper in May 2014.

Schedule 1 of Bill 21 talks about prohibiting payment or the accepting of payment for blood and plasma donations in Ontario.

Schedule 2 of the bill focuses on the regulation of hospital pharmacies in response to Dr. Jake Thiessen’s review on the Ontario cancer drug supplies.

Let’s all remember, folks, that Dr. Thiessen did the review over a year ago—August 7, 2013—encouraging and asking this province, and all of us here at the Legislature, to do some things with respect to protecting the health, and especially cancer treatment, for all Ontarians.

As much as I want to hear the debates here—I do totally agree that there’s always room for improvement on this proposed legislation, but at the end of the day, we need to get this bill to committee to have more conversation with the people.

We also have to be mindful that right now, as we speak, Canadian Plasma Resources, a private, for-profit company, has already established two clinics here in Toronto and is paying $25 per visit for plasma donors, up to a maximum of $100 per month per person, and there is anticipation that a third clinic will be created in Hamilton.

At the end of the day, what are we doing? We need to protect all Ontarians.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: I’m pleased to rise and comment on the talk by the member from London–Fanshawe.

As we’ve seen in the past few weeks—and it’s certainly a concern we have as a caucus—legislation is being rammed through. It does get to committee, but this government shows a reluctance to let us travel in the province and talk about these things with stakeholders.

The member from London–Fanshawe raises some good points. This piece of legislation certainly should be thought through very carefully, because it affects our health. Some of us—we hope not many of us—may have to use some of these products in the future. We have seen in the past what can happen when proper oversight and proper rules and regulations aren’t put in place. However, this government seems to be bound and bent on ramming through legislation and not allowing, to our mind, proper consultation with stakeholders in this business and certainly in others.

We believe this needs to be fully debated and fully talked about, too, with those involved in the plasma business and certainly in the blood services of Ontario. But I’m sure this is what’s going to happen: It’s going to be sent to committee, and any amendments that the parties on this side of the House have probably won’t be looked at, and all of a sudden it will be rammed through without any travel time to talk to these different parts of the health industry. I think that’s wrong and certainly something that we, as a party, feel we need to impress upon those in Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I want to say, first of all, thank you to my colleague from London–Fanshawe for her remarks on this bill. I want to make it clear that we certainly support this bill. We support both components. We think it’s important that we protect the institution of voluntary blood donation in Ontario. That is something that we’re proud of, and we need to support that. We also acknowledge that there was a significant lapse in health care that deeply impacted many folks in southwestern Ontario; in fact, folks across Ontario, but particularly in southwestern Ontario.

It’s important for us to address this issue by ensuring that we have proper oversight mechanisms that will ensure that drug dosages remain at the appropriate level to address whatever illness people in Ontario are facing. In this particular case, the recommendations from the Thiessen report—at least some of them—are being implemented, and I think that’s a step forward.

But again, if we look at what my colleague was speaking about, there’s a broader picture here. Accountability can’t be done in a stopgap-measure type of approach. We see that there is a systemic problem with oversight when it comes to this government. Having one piece of legislation address one issue of oversight, one by one, isn’t a fulsome solution.

We’ve asked this government to consider expanding the powers of the Ontario Ombudsman so that the Ombudsman, as an independent watchdog, an independent source of accountability, can oversee the entire health sector. That would be a real step toward systemically changing the problem, instead of having a bill that is raised each time one issue is found. That’s not really creating a systemic change; it’s not creating a fulsome solution. We ask this government to consider a real, fulsome solution in the health sector.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments? The Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: And women’s services as well.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I’m sorry—and women’s services.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Thank you. Good morning, Speaker.

As I understand it, this bill, the Safeguarding Health Care Integrity Act, actually combines two bills that were previously introduced but didn’t pass. I’m glad to hear that the NDP is supporting it, but they’re the ones who didn’t support our budget, so we had an election and here we are.

Interjections.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Well, it’s a reality. That’s the reality. So we’re back at it.

Hon. Brad Duguid: She wasn’t being mean; she was just stating the facts.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: No, these are the facts. I just want to make it clear for the record why we’re back on this.

It’s a very important bill, because it would protect our current model of voluntary donation for blood and plasma. I don’t think Ontario wants to go down the road of something that’s not voluntary. I think there are risks associated with that model. For example, paying people for blood donations raises a host of issues in communities, and it really flies in the face of the principles of a voluntary system. Paying for plasma is just a whole other world. I think it’s very inconsistent with our values as Ontarians and what we want for our health care system.

Support—of course we always look at what the experts are saying on this. People have talked about Dr. Thiessen’s review, but there are others, of course, such as Dr. Graham Sher, who is the CEO of Canadian Blood Services. He said, “Canadian Blood Services has successfully managed the blood and blood products supply for Ontarians for more than 15 years.

We are confident in the safety and sustainability of the current blood and blood product system in Canada, and we recognize Ontario’s role in preserving voluntary blood and plasma donation in this province.” The list goes on and on of people who support this, including people who have been blood-tainted victims and have experienced negative impacts—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Thank you.

I’d like to remind the minister that it’s women’s issues.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Women’s issues; thank you, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I just want to correct you. Thank you very much.

The member from London–Fanshawe has two minutes.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I’d like to thank the member from Scarborough–Agincourt, the member for Perth–Wellington, the member from Bramalea–Gore–Malton and the Minister of Children and Youth Services and minister responsible for women’s issues.

The member from Scarborough–Agincourt talked about that there are pieces in place in this legislation that are going to help oversight. We didn’t disagree with that. There is the one schedule, on blood donations, that absolutely is going to be helpful, and then

schedule 2 with regard to underdosing of chemotherapy drugs and the oversight of pharmacies. So there is some of that.

What they neglected to mention—the minister also talked about why this bill hadn’t passed because of the budget reasons and all that. She seems to forget, though, that the Minister of Health originally knew that this clinic was starting up their operations back in November 2012, with regard to blood donor services. So this is not something that you can say was—

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Snuck up on you.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: Yes, exactly: snuck up on you. You had time to plan and get this bill to the House long before—you had mentioned May 2014.

The bottom line is, we’re here to serve the public and we’re here to make sure the oversight in health care is actually deliverable, with transparency and accountability. As the member from Bramalea–Gore–Malton mentioned, we’ve been pushing for Ombudsman oversight. So if this government is truly dedicated to oversight and transparency, perhaps they should support the call to have Ombudsman oversight over the health care system.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Further debate?

Mr. Rick Nicholls: It’s my pleasure to rise today and add to the debate on Bill 21, the Safeguarding Health Care Integrity Act, 2014. Bill 21 deals with two important and topical areas of our health care system. Firstly, the bill deals with the structure and rules around blood and plasma donation. Secondly, the bill deals with pharmacies and the oversight of the pharmaceutical industry in the wake of the recent chemotherapy drugs underdosing scandal.

Ensuring that our blood and plasma system is safe and ready to respond to growing demand is an incredibly important responsibility of any government. In the early 1980s, roughly 2,000 Canadians were infected with HIV-tainted blood products. Many, many more, perhaps as many as 30,000 people, were infected with hepatitis C. In response, the royal Commission of Inquiry on the Blood System in Canada, better known as the Krever inquiry, was created in 1993. Billions of dollars in compensation was received by victims from various governments, the Red Cross and insurance companies.

In the aftermath of the scandal, Red Cross control of the national blood program was actually taken away and replaced with a new federal agency, Canadian Blood Services.

Plasma itself so important to our overall health care system because of the variety of ways it can be used. It is often used in pharmaceutical products that help combat Alzheimer’s and hemophilia, for example.

Schedule 1 of this bill, the Voluntary Blood Donations Act, came about as a response to clinics opening up that are trying to pay for plasma donations. There are currently no private clinics that pay for blood plasma in my riding of Chatham–Kent–Essex, so many of my constituents may not be aware of this issue, but it is a vitally important one.

Some background for folks at home: Earlier this year, former health minister Deb Matthews vowed that the government would shut down any clinics that would pay people to donate plasma. This was in reaction to negative media coverage of the announcement that Canadian Plasma Services, a private company, intended to compensate people with $25 per donation. Clinics were planned for Toronto and Hamilton.

Canadian Plasma Resources in fact applied to Health Canada back in November 2012 for a licence to collect plasma from paid donors. One wonders why the government waited until news articles were written and complaints started coming in to address the problem. Canadian Plasma Resources has set up locations close to low-income areas. They were in fact set up near homeless shelters and drug treatment rehab centres, two in Toronto and one in Hamilton.

Critics of paid plasma donations argue that opening collection centres in Ontario will do nothing to increase plasma protein products here because these products will simply be sold on the international market. When it comes to blood and plasma, it is perhaps more a matter of ethics than simply supply and demand of a commodity.

A Toronto Star editorial on the matter stated, “People who voluntarily give the gift of blood—motivated by altruism instead of financial reward—present a safer source than those who are down-and-out and reduced to selling their bodily fluids.” Again, that was a quote from the Toronto Star editorial.

What happens if safe, voluntarily given donations do not meet the demand for blood? Seventy per cent of plasma used in Ontario comes from United States plasma clinics, from paid and unpaid donors. The rest of Ontario’s plasma is donated right here in the province, based on a volunteer system. The tainted blood scandal of the 1980s saw the importance of plasma collected from high-risk prison populations of the United States during the beginning of the AIDS epidemic; however, the screening techniques of the day were woefully inadequate compared to the practices in place at Canadian Blood Services.

The fact of the matter is that Ontario does not receive enough voluntary donations of plasma to rely on donations alone. That sends a bit of a mixed signal about whether or not we should be using plasma from paid donors, but the simple reality is the province has to resort to purchasing plasma from other jurisdictions because we cannot keep up with the demand with locally donated blood. This is an issue that impacts governments of all political stripes.

It could be a Liberal minister, a PC minister or even an NDP Minister of Health, but at the end of the day whoever is in that position in the event of a shortage will be chiefly concerned with (1) do we have enough blood or plasma to get through the shortage or emergency; and (2) —and vitally important—is it safe? I know as a parent and grandparent that if any of my family needed blood, my first question would not be whether the person who donated it was paid; I would simply hope that there was an available match.

What we absolutely do not want to see are people who are down and out on their luck being preyed upon in potentially unsafe places to sell their plasma or their blood. Many people in my riding believe that it is a sacred gift to give and not something to sell for any monetary gain.

Bill 21 does provide an exception that allows Canadian Blood Services to pay for blood or blood products in an emergency situation. This only makes sense, as we certainly would not want to tie the hands of Canadian Blood Services in the event that there is an emergency of massive shortage in the future. The government has made it perfectly clear that Ontarians will not be paid to donate plasma. They have drawn a very clear line on this matter.

The bill imposes steep penalties on those who contravene any

section of the Voluntary Blood Donations Act. A fine of no more than $25,000 each day and/or imprisonment for a term of not more than 12 months can be handed out for a first offence. Repeat offenders can be fined up to $50,000 each day and/or imprisoned for a term of no more than 12 months. This is a clear signal to companies and individuals that paying for plasma donations will not be accepted in the province of Ontario.

But whether or not we pay for donations, we need to an ensure that supply continues to meet demand going forward. How do we ensure that there will always be enough blood and plasma donations in the times when we need it? Well, this is certainly an incredibly complex question and one that has been a concern to different levels of government of all political stripes. As we saw with the recent Ebola scare, it is incredibly important to have a protocol in place in the event of an emergency outbreak or shortage. We cannot afford to be caught off guard by future blood or plasma shortages.

This is why we feel that it is so important that this bill see plenty of time in committee. We want to make sure that there is extensive discussion on this issue, as it is so important to the health of Ontarians now and in the future.

I believe that one of the most effective tools for promoting blood donation is education. Speaker, Ontarians need to be aware of the intense need for donors.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Point of order, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): A point of order on your own member. Go ahead.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I don’t believe we have a quorum in the House today.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Madam Clerk?

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Ms. Anne Stokes): A quorum is present, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Apparently, a quorum is present. Thank you for that interlude.

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Oh, sorry. On a point of order, the member for Bramalea–Gore–Malton.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Now that my colleague has been interrupted, I thought I could just jump in quickly. I’d like to correct my record from yesterday. During my question, it was recorded that I had said a 50% reduction in auto insurance. It was 15%.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member, I guess at all times, is allowed to correct his own record. Thank you very much.

Continue. Sorry, member.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Thank you very much, Speaker.

Canadian Blood Services is always looking for more blood and plasma donors. I’d like to take a moment to share some useful information for people who have considered donating but were unsure of the process.

A plasma donation appointment takes about an hour and a half. Plasma donation itself only takes approximately 35 to 45 minutes to complete, but just like with a blood donation, you have to be monitored for a few minutes before you head home.

If you only donate plasma, you are able to make a donation weekly. Once you start donating plasma, you can continue to donate blood as well, but you must wait 56 days after a plasma donation to donate blood. Canadian Blood Services suggests staying committed to one or the other so that you can donate more often.

There are many locations throughout my riding of Chatham–Kent–Essex where blood clinics are set up with donation dates coming up throughout the coming weeks and months. Those looking to donate in Chatham-Kent can head to the Spirit and Life Centre on Wellington Street, the Chatham Polish Canadian Club on Inshes Avenue or even the St. Clair College healthplex.

Blenheim residents can stop by St. Mary’s Hall on December 9 from 2:30 to 7:30 p.m. if they wish to donate. Ridgetown District secondary school and the University of Guelph Ridgetown Campus are holding donation days over the coming months, as is the F.T. Sherk centre in Leamington.

So here’s what I want to do: I want to encourage you to visit the Canadian Blood Services website at www.blood.ca—it’s real simple—for more information, including clinics near you and donation dates. There are plenty of opportunities and locations for people from the great riding of Chatham–Kent–Essex to give the gift of life, and I fully encourage them to do so.

I’ll now turn my attention to

schedule 2 of the Safeguarding Health Care Integrity Act, which mandates the College of Pharmacists to inspect and license all hospital pharmacies in Ontario.

This part of the bill is in response to the underdosing of 1,202 chemo patients back in 2012 and 2013. A number of gaps were discovered in the drug purchasing and manufacturing process right here in Ontario in the wake of this chemo drug scandal. Understandably, it shook Ontarians’ belief in our health care system.

After 1,202 patients in Ontario and New Brunswick were given diluted chemotherapy drugs in the spring of 2013, Dr. Jake Thiessen of the University of Waterloo was asked to conduct a review of Ontario’s health care institutions to find out what went wrong and how we can avoid it in the future. Dr. Thiessen made 12 recommendations in his thorough review. A legislative committee was then established to report on the matter and made recommendations consistent with those found in the Thiessen report.

The Standing Committee on Social Policy tabled a report earlier this year recommending that the entire drug manufacturing system and processing process be subjected to far greater public scrutiny. When it comes to Ontario’s health care system and especially its drug supply system, oversight and transparency are critical. Why do Ontarians have to wait for a scandal to bring these problems to light to receive an honest and transparent look into systems that have such a profound impact on their lives? When it comes to an issue as important as health care, shouldn’t open government be the default?

Bill 21 is a positive bill. It seeks to address a very significant issue that has caused a lot of damage, both emotional and physical, to the people in this province. But it is, in essence, a reactive bill. The people of this province would prefer to see this government be proactive when it comes to safeguarding their health.

Bill 21 seeks to redefine hospital and community pharmacies so that they are all considered as one type of pharmacy in terms of inspection. This comes directly from the Thiessen report, as it was recommended that the Ontario College of Pharmacists license all pharmacies operating within the province’s clinics or hospitals.

From the report: “This step of standardizing the pharmacy operations and practices brings the greatest potential patient benefits and reduces some of the identified medication management risks. It also implies that the previous recommendations targeted at licensed community pharmacies need to be adopted for clinic and hospital pharmacies.” This will ensure that all institutions are properly inspected, and it is something that I fully support.

Bill 21, in general, provides the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care with additional oversight. But as we have seen over the past few years with the eHealth and Ornge air ambulance scandals, there is a major difference between a Ministry of Health simply having the ability to oversee and a minister who is actually conducting effective oversight. I hope that the additional powers that this bill will give the minister are used effectively and not just added to the tool kit, never to be used.

Many of my colleagues have stated during debate on this bill that they want to see a meaningful consultation period in committee where all relevant stakeholders can, in fact, raise their concerns.

The government has its majority for four years. This bill will surely pass. There is no need to rush this bill along for the political victory that comes with passing legislation. In the end, Ontarians don’t care as much about how quickly laws are passed as they do about the quality of the legislation. I might add that there is a balance in there.

As I have stated throughout my remarks, I really feel this is a good bill overall, and one that makes meaningful improvements to the safeguarding of Ontario’s health care sector. But at the same time, I want to ensure that this bill will not have any unintended consequences once it’s passed.

I’m not a doctor and I’m not a pharmacist. I don’t work on the front lines day in and day out. I can say that this bill is a positive, but I cannot vouch for it with the same authority as the men and women who are working in our health care sector each and every day.

Speaker, I am happy to support this bill at second reading, but let’s get plenty of expert support of this bill at committee. Let’s strengthen the bill to make it the best that it can be. When it comes to the health of Ontarians, we can do nothing less.

In addition to placing safeguards on health care, and especially on the health care system that impacts each and every person in the province, this bill gives us the opportunity to discuss and promote the incredibly important issue of blood and plasma donation.

I conclude by saying thank you to everyone listening at home who has donated blood or plasma. Your gift means more than you’ll ever know.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments? The member from Timiskaming–Cochrane.

Mr. John Vanthof: Thank you, Speaker. I thought you had totally forgotten me.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I can never forget you.

Mr. John Vanthof: The Speaker bought me breakfast a few days ago, and I haven’t returned the favour yet, so he’s still waiting for that.

Ms. Ann Hoggarth: He’s a nice guy.

Mr. John Vanthof: The Speaker is a very nice guy when he’s off the chair.

Interjection.

Mr. John Vanthof: It is.

It’s always an honour to stand in this House and to comment on the member’s comments. They were very thoughtful, and I agreed with the vast majority of them.

It’s not just about people’s health; it’s about people’s faith in the system. If there’s one thing that should be under the government’s control, it’s the protection of the integrity of the system. That integrity was broken, and it perhaps cost some people their lives, with the dilution of the chemotherapy drugs. We’ll never know or be able to say that, but one of the things that this bill is trying to address is to ensure that that never happens again. Do we believe that it’s perfect? No. Do we believe that it could be made better? Yes.

It’s our sincere hope that we do—on this side of the House, in this corner, we support this bill. We hope that the government takes the time to actually look at amendments to make this bill better, because this one shouldn’t be about politics at all. In our opinion, the scandal isn’t what happened; the scandal would be if there was political interference in trying to make sure it didn’t happen again.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments? The member from Newmarket–Aurora.

Mr. Chris Ballard: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity to speak to a very important issue. The legislation is important, but I first want to start by acknowledging the comments by the member from Chatham–Kent–Essex. I absolutely agree with him when he talks about the donation of blood as a sacred gift and one that is not to be bought or sold—and to reiterate his thanks to those donors who have given the gift of life over the years. I think every one of us here knows someone who has been a recipient of that gift of life, and for that we are really thankful.

Just to reiterate, it’s nice to hear the positive words that are spoken in terms of support for this bill. We know that, following the tainted blood scandal of the 1980s—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Order.

Go ahead.

Mr. Chris Ballard: I thought that was directed at me for a second.

That belief was upheld by the Krever commission, that recommended that donors of blood and plasma should not be paid for their donations except in rare circumstances. That was acknowledged. Our position is consistent with the Krever commission’s report and that’s why the government is moving ahead with steps to maintain the integrity of Canada’s blood system.

I’ve heard from a number of my constituents in Newmarket–Aurora, one of whom was a victim of the—

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): If the member for Simcoe–Grey could just take it down a notch. I’m having trouble hearing him.

Mr. John Yakabuski: It’s Simcoe North, sir.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Sorry; Simcoe North.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Sorry. I apologize.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I was looking for Jim Wilson.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Well, I hope you find him.

Mr. John Yakabuski: You’ll be the first to know.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Go ahead; I’ll let you finish.

Mr. Chris Ballard: I don’t know if I’ve run the clock down or not, but I think I had about 15 seconds yet.

I just wanted to make the comment that I’ve heard from a number of constituents, one of whom was a victim of the whole tainted blood issue. They contacted me specifically to say that blood should not be paid for and that we should be doing whatever we can as a government to ensure that that doesn’t happen. I’m happy to go back to them when this bill passes, and I believe it will pass, to tell them that that’s been done.

Thank you to the two previous speakers for acknowledging the importance.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments? The member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry.

Mr. Jim McDonell: Thank you, Speaker. I was a little worried you might say I was looking like the member from Simcoe North.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): You’re allowed two strikes.

Mr. Jim McDonell: I can see that you’re one up on the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane, if he’s got a breakfast out of you. The House wants to know if he’ll ever get it back, knowing from his heritage—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Well, he’s related to Ernie. I’m not sure.

Mr. Jim McDonell: Anyway, to talk about this bill, we are supporting it. It has got to be moved through.

There is some concern. I know the goal is always not to pay for blood products, but on the other hand you’re paying now for 70% that’s coming from a source that’s unknown. I think that’s a concern, and we’d like to hear from some stakeholders just how we can maybe change that. Nobody likes the idea of paying for blood, but in essence we are, and we’re losing control of how that’s done when we purchase it from outside the country.

On the pharmacy regulation, again, it’s oversight that was lacking for many years. We’ve seen people die from such a problem. It’s really hard to know just how much of an impact it had on many people.

It’s time for this government to step up and ensure, especially in the health industry—this lack of oversight is in many areas, whether it be Ornge or you look at eHealth. It’s just a continuing list of issues that we know about. I guess there are lots; it’s a large ministry and a complex ministry. But it speaks about, when there is evidence on the floor here—the NDP and ourselves are highlighting it—the reluctance of the government to really look at some of the issues, certainly on Ornge.

We’re looking forward to this bill and we think it needs to be passed.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I want to add my voice to the discussion again, and again I want to make it clear that we are in support of this bill. This is a bill that I think it’s clear all members of the House are in support of, and the member made it very clear that he also recognizes this is a serious issue. It’s an issue that we take as something that’s quite important. Again, we want to clarify our position that we absolutely support and cherish our voluntary blood donation system that we have here in Ontario. It’s something that we’re very proud of.

There are a lot of merits to the system that we do have. Having a voluntary system ensures quality and a reliable source of blood, and it’s something that also speaks to our values as Canadians and as Ontarians that we want to give back to our community. One of the catchphrases about giving blood is it’s “giving the gift of life,” and it really is. It’s something we truly honour and cherish.

In addition to that, we’ve heard a lot of comments, and the member brings this issue up as well, about the importance of accountability and oversight. It’s quite important; it’s of utmost importance. It’s one of the primary roles that we play here in the House: that as legislators, we ensure that the system that we have works effectively and in a manner that we can trust and that actually takes care of the citizens of this province.

But there is a serious issue. I raise this again, and I want to raise it one more time to make it absolutely clear: If we have a piecemeal approach such that, any time a problem comes up, we come up with a piece of legislation to address it, it’s not a long-term, sustainable solution. It’s a limited solution.

We’re asking this government: If you’re serious about accountability, particularly in our health care, which is one of the most sensitive areas and one of the most precious areas of care in our province, or sectors in our province, then please extend the Ombudsman oversight to the health care sector to ensure we have that independent oversight.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Chatham–Kent–Essex has two minutes.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: First of all, I’d like to thank the member from Newmarket–Aurora as well as the members from Timiskaming–Cochrane, Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry and, of course, Bramalea–Gore–Malton for their insightful comments. I do certainly appreciate this.

The member from Newmarket–Aurora had spoken out and said that he knew of an individual who had in fact received some tainted blood. I, too, know someone—a neighbour, actually, several years ago—who had received some tainted blood and actually had come down with hepatitis C. He’s doing well, but he was quite sick for quite some time. We have to safeguard against that.

The issue of pay or not pay: There are pros and cons to that. I think we need to be really, really insightful and taking the initiative, to ensure that we have plenty of (

a) blood, and (

b) plasma stored up in the event of—well, not just for regular operations and people needing transfusions and so on, but also in the event that there is a massive tragedy and suddenly hundreds, if not thousands, of people are in dire and desperate, desperate need and whatnot. So I think we need to take a look at this.

But, again, I’d like to remind people to go to the Canadian Blood Services website, which is www.blood.ca, to get more information as to where they can donate. I think it’s very, very important.

Again, I want to simply say that I know there are many, many people out there who are trying to put safeguards in place. I want to thank all of the people out there who have donated blood or plasma, because you are in fact giving what I call, and many call, the gift of life.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Further debate? The member from Windsor–Tecumseh.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Thank you, Speaker. It is a treat to stand here in the House today and join you, because you’re having so much fun in the chair this morning. As you know, normally I’m in the public accounts committee at this time, so it’s unusual for me to be able to share some time with you as you chair this hearing this morning.

I always compliment you, because I believe you’re doing a terrific job up there, and I know you really enjoy it. So that’s why I enjoy being here, as you’re having fun over there.

Interjections.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: I think he’s doing a pretty good job. Actually, the member from Chatham–Kent–Essex, when he’s up there, does a pretty good job as well. So it is a treat to be here this morning.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: He wants a breakfast too.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Speaker, let me just say, before I begin my discussion here, that I’m sorry I missed your talk last night at the steel producers’ reception. I heard you gave a barnburner of an address to the crowd last night. I missed it. I got there late, because I was in the House until about 6:30 last night, I think it was.

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I’d just like to—sit down, please.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Yes, sir.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): I’d like to thank you for your compliments and everything. I’d like to call a little order, because when he’s talking nice things about me, I’d like to hear them. Thanks a lot.

You may continue. Thank you very much.

Mr. John Yakabuski: And keep it up.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Speaker, I think I’ll turn the page on that at the moment.

I used to be a blood donor myself. When you come from the ragweed capital of Ontario—in the fall, when I was younger, I would get hay fever and so I’d have to take medication in the fall. That meant I couldn’t give blood in the fall, which was always a problem. But I enjoyed my time as a donor until I came down with high blood pressure. Once you take high-blood-pressure pills they don’t want you to donate blood anymore.

I do have to mention that a very good friend of mine was caught up in that terrible problem we had years ago with the tainted blood scandal. A woman I worked with for many years at the CBC after a pregnancy and a blood transfusion came down with hepatitis C, and unfortunately she’s no longer with us. I mention that.

I’ll also give you two numbers to think about this morning as I start, and that’s 290 out of 1,200. Some 290 patients in Windsor Regional Hospital and Hôtel Dieu in Windsor were affected by the dilution, the underdosage, of chemotherapy drugs back in 2013. I mention that number because, in a community of our size, when you have 290 patients affected, you’re bound to know one or two of them. I have to say that a good friend of mine—one of the best criminal defence lawyers in Windsor and Essex county—his wife was one of the 290 who received the underdosage of the chemotherapy drugs.

I am not a cancer survivor. My father passed away from various cancers. But I just imagine if you go to your doctor one day and you’re told you have cancer. You might get a second opinion or a third opinion and then you come to terms with that, but the psychological effect is there. Then you begin your treatment. You put all your faith in your doctor, you put all your faith in the treatment, all your faith in the system. I believe, as I’m sure most of us in this room do, that our health care system in Ontario, as flawed as it is in some ways, is still the best in North America, if not beyond. I’m not trying to knock our health care system whatsoever. But from time to time, things come up.

God bless the government for trying to find ways to save money, because we know there’s not a lot of it around these days. There are a lot of promises out there that have yet to be kept because of a lack of funds. But when you want to change a system that’s working, you put out to tender the provision of chemotherapy drugs—the IV bags of drugs to fight cancer—and you make a change in the supplier, you go to the lowest bid, the lowest common denominator, and you think you’re going to save some money.

Throughout that tendering process, somebody slipped up somewhere along the line. Instead of tendering for a specific amount of dosage, it came out as a more generic number. So 1,200 patients receiving chemotherapy drugs—290, as I say, in Windsor; 691 in London at the London Health Sciences Centre; 37 at Lakeridge Health; one in Peterborough; and 183 in my home province of New Brunswick.

These are people who put their faith in the system. Their life is on the line. Let’s not kid anybody about this. Their lives were on the line. They’re fighting cancer. They know what the dosage is supposed to be; their doctor knows what it is supposed to be. You’ve got all your faith in that, and then you find out along the way that you’ve been receiving drugs that were less than what you should have been receiving. Just imagine the psychological effect of that. Here you are trying to put on a brave face for your family, trying to put on a brave face for your doctors and your caregivers, and instead, you come up short.

Then what happens? What happens psychologically? How do you deal with that? I put myself in their shoes, and I say, “How would I deal with that? I want to get better. I’m doing what I should be doing. I’ve got all my faith in the system, and then the system has let me down.” I think I’d be really troubled by that. The foundation of our system was rocked by this scandal, and I just can’t get over that. There was a screw-up. Somebody should have been held responsible.

Our Standing Committee on Social Policy looked into it. An outside expert looked into it. There were all kinds of recommendations. Some of those recommendations are being addressed, but some aren’t, and that’s why, when we get through second reading of this bill and it goes to committee, there should be more amendments to this bill, more improvements to this bill. We owe it not just to the 290 patients in the Windsor-Essex county area but to the 1,200 patients throughout Ontario and New Brunswick who had received lower dosages than they should have received based on their diagnoses. So this bill has to be improved.

I really want to thank all of the members of the Standing Committee on Social Policy, who got into this in a very big way last year. I know our health critic, the member from Nickel Belt, did an outstanding job during those discussions and brought to light many of the recommendations that should have been put into bill, and some of them have yet to be included.

Speaker, as you know, I’m relatively new to this chamber. I was elected in a by-election last August and then re-elected in June of this year. When I first took my seat—actually, it was September last year when the House reconvened just after Labour Day—one of the things that I remember is our health critic from Nickel Belt, Ms. Gélinas, speaking to the then health minister from London, Ms. Matthews, about a clinic that was about to open up in Toronto that was going to pay people who wanted to donate blood or plasma.

I remember our health critic from Nickel Belt saying, “But, Minister, if you weren’t dragging your heels on this, you would have put a halt to it. You would have brought in legislation to prevent this clinic from opening, long before we were at this stage,” because in the media at the time, there were all kinds of stories out there that this clinic was about to open up. The federal government wasn’t doing much about it, but Ontario has, and has now, the ability to put a stop to that, and it didn’t happen.

Our health critic kept saying, “When are you going to take action?” You know, it’s a little late after the clinic opens, after the payments begin.

At some point, I imagine there will be legal challenges. That’s part of the system, but with the legal challenges come costs, and costs, of course—from the government’s perspective, all that money comes from my pocket, your pocket, Speaker, the taxpayer’s pocket. If we’re paying lawyers and paying court costs on something that could have been prevented, we’re wasting tax dollars.

We know, in this House, how hard-to-come-by those tax dollars are. There’s not enough money. There’s lots of money out there, but money that we want to see better spent on health care—they’re saying that there’s not enough money.

The member from Windsor West, Ms. Gretzky, has been up in the House recently, talking about cutbacks at the CCAC service delivery level in Windsor and Essex county. People—the elderly, the vulnerable—who have been receiving CCAC home care services for years and years and years are now being told: “There’s no money left. We don’t have enough money to give you a bath. We don’t have enough money to come to your home.” A lot of these patients don’t have somebody else who can step in and say, “Don’t worry about it. I’ll provide that service.”

We know the health care system is struggling financially. We know it’s a great system. Don’t get me wrong; it’s one of the best systems in the world. But money is tight, and when we see things happen in the health care system that are costing us money, costing us tax dollars, we say that we should be doing a better job. We should always be doing a better job. We should always be thinking about the taxpayer. When the health ministry hasn’t stepped in and hasn’t shut it down, and now we’re going to have court challenges, I say that’s a waste of tax money.

I’m going to be sharing some of my time with the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane, one of the most passionate speakers in the House and, as you know, the nephew of another member from the Conservative caucus. We always like to remind him of that. We’ve turned one member of the family over to the New Democrats; we’re hoping to turn the other one before his legislative days are over, if I can put it that way.

I just want to say, it’s in you to give. If you want to be a blood donor, they would certainly like to have you down there. To all the donors in the province of Ontario, thank you for doing what you do to help our system along, because we know it’s very important to have blood donors in our system, bringing safe blood, the gift of life, back to some of us who need it. Keep those supplies coming in.

Speaker, thank you for your time this morning. I would like to leave at this point and donate the rest of my time to the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane, who told me when I came in this morning, “By the way, you’re not only going to fill in instead of being in committee this morning, but you’re going to stand up and talk for 20 minutes.” For that, I really wish him well the next time we get together socially, so that I don’t spill any drinks on him or anything, Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Timiskaming–Cochrane.

Mr. John Vanthof: It’s an honour to be able to stand in this House today and talk about Bill 21. But first I would like to commend the member from Windsor—

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Windsor–Tecumseh.

Mr. John Vanthof: Windsor–Tecumseh. The reason that he was singled out this morning is because the chemotherapy scandal had such an impact on people in his area. He agreed with me that it was a good thing that he could take the time to talk about that.

I would like to spend the few minutes that I have talking about the dilution of the chemotherapy drugs. When someone is diagnosed with cancer, for the family of the person who is diagnosed, it’s probably one of the most vulnerable times in their lives. It’s one of those times when you expect the system to work. In this case, it didn’t.

I would also like to take a moment to recognize some of the people who actually identified the problem, because if you think about—wasn’t it in Peterborough that it was identified?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Yes.

Mr. John Vanthof: Can you imagine that moment when someone realized there was a problem? If you’ve ever been involved sometime in a supply chain issue, and you’re the one sticking up your hand saying, “Whoa, hold the phone. There’s a problem”—but when you’re dealing with people’s lives, can you imagine that moment? Can you imagine how much those people put on the line to say, “Whoa, wait a second”?

It’s been our experience since with this issue that when the system appears to be working and someone puts up their hand and says, “Excuse me, it’s not”—the system isn’t always that reflective: “Oh, yes, I think there’s a problem.” The wheels want to keep turning. They don’t want to stop and recalibrate. For the people who did that and who made this system stop, our hats should be off to them all.

We’re here now discussing after the fact. The true problem is that there were no natural checks and balances. That’s what we’re here discussing today and what this bill is trying to change. There were no natural checks and balances in the system to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

We support this bill, but what we’re worried about is that although we’re trying to plug a couple of holes—and my colleague from Bramalea–Gore–Malton said the same thing—it hasn’t been demonstrated to us that the government is really looking at making sure natural checks and balances will be inserted into the system to prevent cases like this from happening in other parts of the health care system. That’s what we’re concerned about. We’re really concerned that the government, in their haste—yes, they’re going to plug a couple of holes; that’s why we’re in favour.

But in their haste, it will only be a couple of holes. It will be a Swiss cheese with a couple of holes plugged, but lots of other holes.

We’re sure that those holes are identifiable. This is a great system—our health care system is a great system—but we see problems all the time. It’s our hope that when this bill comes to committee, we are actually allowed to take the time to look and fix as much as we can to make the system work as well as it should on behalf of the people who trust it with their lives.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Thank you.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): It being 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1013 to 1030.

Special report, Auditor General

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I beg to inform the House that I’ve laid upon the table a special report from the Auditor General entitled Education Sector Collective Agreements (September 1, 2012-August 31, 2014).

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Ted Arnott: I’m very pleased to welcome Jennifer Blunt from Portage Ontario, who is here with us in the members’ gallery. Ms. Blunt is here to recognize National Addictions Awareness Week and to raise awareness of the fine work that the Portage facility in Elora is doing to help treat youth with serious substance abuse and addiction issues. Please join me in welcoming Ms. Blunt.

M me France Gélinas: Ça me fait extrêmement plaisir de présenter M me Andree-Anne McPhail. She is a youth from the Canadian Cancer Society. She is joined by Janika Francis, Sabrina Bailey, Devanshi Adhvaryu, Sinthiha Krishnan, Vithusha Ganesh, Kalaisan Kalaichelvan and Shadi Mousavi Nia.

We also have some representatives from the Canadian Cancer Society: Nicole McInerney, Joanne Di Nardo, Kelly Gorman, Florentina Stancu-Soare and Julie Datta.

Please extend a warm welcome to them. They’re here to support a ban on flavoured tobacco.

Mr. John Fraser: I’d like to welcome back to Queen’s Park Salima Lakhani, the mother of Moiz Lakhani, who is the page captain today, from Ottawa South.

Mrs. Gila Martow: I want to welcome Ryan Konopny. He’s my high school co-op student. Wave to us, Ryan. He goes to Thornhill Secondary School in my riding. It’s nice to see you, Ryan.

Mr. Paul Miller: I would like to introduce Dr. Sheri Findlay and Dr. Brandon Meaney, both children’s physicians at McMaster Children’s Hospital. Speaker, they actually paid at a silent auction to be my guest, to spend a day with me. I know I speak on behalf of the whole House and yourself in welcoming the doctors here to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Speaker, I would like members to join me in welcoming Andrew Clark, who joined us, with the Federation of Community Power Co-operatives, this morning for breakfast downstairs.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I’d like to welcome a grade 8 class at De La Salle College here in Toronto. The students are in the balcony there. Wave, students. How are you? I’d also like to extend a very special welcome to Evelyn Locke, who is one of the students there. She is the daughter of my chief of staff, Pina Martino.

Hon. Mario Sergio: Speaker, in the east lobby members’ gallery, from the city of Salemi in sunny Sicily, we have the mayor, Domenico Venuti, and councillor Vito Scalisi. We also have, from Toronto, Domenic Renda and Carlo Agusta. I hope they enjoy their stay here.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I’d like members to join me in welcoming the Ontario Home Builders’ Association to the Legislature this morning. A good Hamiltonian, president Vince Molinaro, is here, as well as their CEO, Joe Vaccaro.

The OHBA day at Queen’s Park will be hosted from 5:30 to 6:30 this afternoon, and I’d invite everybody to attend.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I’d like to welcome Heather Bone, Faizul Mohee, Raphael Redmond Fernandes, Mitchell Keay, Jaya Deonandan and Zhe Tang. They are students from the University of Waterloo and Wilfrid Laurier University PC campus clubs.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to welcome Sabrina Bailey, who is a youth with the Canadian Cancer Society and also a student at Carleton University, which is located in my community in Ottawa Centre. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I want to recognize Brenda Hodgson, who is here. She’s the provincial director of the Nation at Prayer organization. Welcome, Brenda.

I also want to welcome everyone from the Ontario Home Builders’ Association, especially from Durham. I’ll be meeting with those folks later today.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I’m delighted to welcome to the Legislature today representatives from the Canadian Cancer Society: Nicole McInerney, Joanne Di Nardo, Kelly Gorman, Florentina Stancu-Soare and Julie Datta, as well as youths Andree-Anne McPhail, Janika Francis, Sabrina Bailey, Devanshi Adhvaryu, Sinthiha Krishnan, Vithusha Ganesh, Kalaisan Kalaichelvan, Shadi Mousavi Nia and Krissy Truong. Please welcome them all.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome.

Ms. Daiene Vernile: It gives me great pleasure to introduce you to the world’s most awesome canvasser, 13-year-old Ethan McCready-Branch. Please stand. Hello.

Ethan was by my side almost every day during the campaign. He got here today thanks to his dad, Greg Branch, who took the day off work. They are here from Kitchener Centre.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): With your indulgence, on behalf of the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington, we have with us visiting in the west members’ gallery Aidan Niedbala and his mom, Jennifer Niedbala. We welcome them. Thank you.

With us in the Speaker’s gallery on my left, on the premise of a silent auction bid for the Rotary Club air show, are David and Michelle Gowling. Welcome for a day at Queen’s Park with Dave.

Also, we have special guests in the Speaker’s gallery today: a complete delegation from the Party History Research Centre of the People’s Republic of China. Please welcome our guests.

Use of electronic devices

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Last but not least, if I could have—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order, please. I do need your attention for this announcement.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I find this an extremely important point to make, and I would appreciate your attention.

As I have previously advised all members, as have my predecessors in the Speaker’s chair, it is never permissible for pictures to be taken from your BlackBerrys or other devices here in the chamber or in a committee. The practice of the Speaker overlooking members using certain devices as long as their use is silent and unobtrusive does not extend to their camera functions.

Let me lay out the rules once again. Devices must always be set in silent mode. The members may not read directly from them while they have the floor, nor may the telephone or camera functions ever be used either here in the chamber or in committees. I expect all members to comply with this directive.

Oral Questions

Forest industry

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I’m happy to hear that Jim Bradley will no longer be able to bring his Polaroid camera onto the floor of this assembly.

My question is for the Premier. Premier, the members for Parry Sound–Muskoka, North Bay and Kenora–Rainy River have all demanded action to save the pulp mill in Fort Frances. Even the Minister of Natural Resources—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of Agriculture, come to order.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: —yesterday grudgingly admitted, “Timelines are tight and we need to ensure the building is heated.”

Some 200 direct northern jobs are at stake and another 800 indirect, yet the government remains complacent, unable or unwilling to secure employment and opportunity for Fort Frances. Given the government floundered on the sale of the mill to Expera, will the Premier commit today that she will instruct her minister to find a way to heat the mill this winter?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry will want to comment on the supplementary, but I will just say to the member opposite that I think it is laudable that she is taking an interest in a northern issue because, as we have always said, this is one Ontario, and it’s very important that everyone in this House understand that.

As the minister has said repeatedly in question period, we have been engaged on this file from the beginning. We are in conversation; the minister has been in conversation with the owner of the mill. We are doing everything in our power, if there’s a deal to be had, but these are private sector entities that have to deal with market realities and deal with each other. But we are doing everything in our power to stay engaged and, if there is a resolution, to help facilitate that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: What I heard there is that she and her minister do not understand the importance of 200 local well-paying jobs in remote and rural Ontario. But I can assure her of one thing: The Progressive Conservative caucus does understand that. We understand that a good job is a good opportunity. We also understand that in Fort Frances, to create this investment opportunity, the government must act today, not grandstand with blustery bravado, as the minister has done in the assembly.

We know that heating the mill this winter would extend the timeline for Resolute Forest Products to sell the mill. Will the Premier and her caucus put as much time into Fort Frances’s crisis as they have just done on her recent trip to China?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: This is a very serious issue, and the economy in the north is a very serious issue. That’s why I have made it my business to travel repeatedly to the north to meet with companies and municipal leaders in the north.

It’s extremely important to me that I was part of the northern debate and that I gave people in the north the opportunity to interact with me—and that was not the first time I had been in the north.

The fact is that we have taken this issue very seriously. It’s why in our platform we made it clear and in our practice we have made it clear that partnering with business, working with business, is a fundamental part of the trajectory for economic success in this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Again, I heard no response to the people of Fort Frances that you’re taking their concerns seriously.

I grew up in a small town, in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia, where the pulp and paper mill was one of a handful of steady employers, so I understand more than anybody that an industry like this could be the bread and butter of the local economy. It can mean prosperity in good times and paucity in bad.

I am asking the Premier to think of Fort Frances: the mothers and fathers who want to work, their kids who want to go to post-secondary education and the municipality that is right now worried about what negative spinoff effects this is going to have if this mill is closed for good. Think of them and act now.

I finally ask you one more time: Will the Premier waste no more time and move today to save Fort Frances’s pulp and paper mill so that there will be good jobs that go with that?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry.

Hon. Bill Mauro: To the member, maybe if, during the election, you or your leader or your party had gone north of Barrie, somebody would be taking you seriously here today in the Legislature. Maybe if you would have shown up, then we would be taking this seriously.

I guess if I wanted to speculate today as to why this particular member is asking this particular question, we could all have a little fun here this morning, but it is a very serious issue.

Just a month ago, the member from Parry Sound was in Thunder Bay complaining about money that we had contributed to private sector businesses, calling it “picking winners and losers,” calling it “corporate welfare.” Well, maybe the next time the member stands up today in the Legislature and asks a question about this particular enterprise, and this particular business-to-business relationship, she can explain why this one isn’t picking winners and losers, and she can explain why this one isn’t corporate welfare.

Steel industry

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I dare say the minister should stop talking about losers, but my question goes back to the Premier. On September 16, US Steel officially filed for bankruptcy. The plant permanently shut down back in December 2013—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Agriculture, come to order.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: —ending more than a century of steel production at the Hamilton plant.

For years, Ontario steel was the staple of building modern cities and supporting a number of key Ontario industries, including the automotive, energy, construction and mining sectors. But under 10 years of Liberal mismanagement in the energy sector and uncompetitive tax regimes, giants of industry have fled and been driven out of Ontario as a result of the loss of thousands of direct and indirect steel industry jobs.

Can the Premier explain how her government can claim economic growth on the one hand while, in fact, the evidence on the other is clear that her policies are driving jobs and prosperity out of Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I know that the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure is going to want to speak to this in the supplementary, but let me just put a couple of numbers on the table. The unemployment rate in Ontario is 6.5%. That is the lowest rate since 2008, Mr. Speaker. That is one number. The other number I want to put on the table is: more than 500,000 net new jobs since the economic downturn.

So the reality is that the economic plan that we have been acting on, and that we have put in place—the investment in infrastructure, the partnering with businesses, the understanding that our economy is changing, the industry is changing, the investment in the talent and skills that our young people are going to need for the future, the recognition that supporting our education sector and helping it to link better with the labour market—those are the pillars of our economic plan, and they are working as we go through this transition in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Look, I understand that the Liberals are supposedly excited about bringing 80 new steel manufacturing jobs from China, but this is a Liberal government that has missed crucial opportunities, not only in Ontario, but in the rest of Canada, to promote hundreds of jobs right here.

Let’s take, for example, the Alberta oil sands. They need a considerable amount of steel products. Companies working in the oil sands—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Excuse me. Stop the clock. The Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs is warned.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Yay!

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock has been told now.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Laurie, behave. Your mother is watching.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): No. Just let me do mine.

Please finish.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Companies working in the oil sands import around $5.6 billion annually in manufactured goods. But illegally dumped and subsidized imports from countries like China are being used instead of Ontario steel, which has hurt key regions in Ontario, including Hamilton and including the north.

So my question is, why does the government continue to stifle Ontario manufacturing and export jobs overseas rather than working to stimulate our economy right here in Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure.

Hon. Brad Duguid: Mr. Speaker, the Ontario steel industry’s GDP is up 38% since the recessionary low in 2009, but this is a sector that globally is having some serious challenges and Ontario can’t remove itself from the global challenges, with regard to the steel industry.

What we can do is keep investing in the things that are important to help the steel sector: for instance, the auto sector. Investments that you call “corporate welfare” we call “strong investments to build a supply chain in this province.” We’re seeing record sales right now in auto, Mr. Speaker. If they had their way, we would have abandoned the auto sector, and those opportunities wouldn’t be there.

Let me give you another example. The wind turbine production that has taken place across this province—a huge boost for our steel sector in this province. Those are the kinds of investments that are supporting the steel sector. Those are the kinds of investments that the party opposite has rejected.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Typical of that minister: It is rhetoric over reality every single time.

We are continuing to lose good and well-paying manufacturing jobs and Canadian jobs in the steel production industry because of illegally dumped imports and an uncompetitive businesses climate.

There are major opportunities out there. We are the fourth-largest market in the world. We should be embracing that. There are opportunities for Ontario steel from northern Ontario, Hamilton and elsewhere to contribute to projects in our province, Alberta and the rest of Canada, but you’re making it more difficult.

Can you explain to me why you would rather import steel from China than look at local opportunities here and production in Ontario?

Hon. Brad Duguid: Well, the protectionist party on the opposite side has kind of changed their tune. Their federal cousins talk about free trade; they’re talking about protectionism. We’re a trading nation. We’re a trading province. We need to be open to trade. We can’t get away from that.

But when she talks about an uncompetitive environment for investment, she’s dead wrong. We’re number one in North America for foreign direct investment.

We have just seen an increase of 37,000 net new jobs in this province last month alone, Mr. Speaker. We’re up over half a million net new jobs since the global recession. That’s almost 200% job recovery. When you compare that to the US, they’re at about 115%. I call that progress.

There are still more people out of work in Ontario than we’d like, but we’re going to keep investing in our people. We’re going to keep investing in building a strong economy. We’re going to keep putting Ontarians back—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

Automobile insurance

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. The fall economic statement says that the annual Auto Insurance Transparency and Accountability Expert Report has been given to the Minister of Finance. Why is the Premier keeping this hidden from Ontarians?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: It’s not hidden. In fact, we would have received the report much sooner had we not been forced into an election and had it not been delayed. As a result, the report is now before us. We’re having it reviewed. It will be released very shortly.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: When the Premier was worried about her political future, she promised to lead the most transparent government in Canada. She even named the auto insurance expert report the transparency and accountability report. I’m sure George Orwell would be having a chuckle about that, Speaker. But now she’s keeping transparency reports hidden. In fact, when I asked the question, the Premier and the Minister of Finance wouldn’t even admit that the transparency report even existed.

Is the Premier going to deny the existence of the auto insurance transparency report?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, obviously the member opposite doesn’t seem to understand the response that I just gave moments ago. The fact of the matter is, the report was commissioned. We issued it, we initiated it, and we anticipated it long ago. But it didn’t come because of the delays that were caused by the opposition, by the unfortunate resolve for an election, which for us and for the people of Ontario was a welcome relief, because now we’ve got a majority enabling us to act quickly on the issue of reducing auto insurance rates.

The report will be released momentarily. It’s before us. It’s being reviewed.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Apparently the secret transparency report on auto insurance shows that the Liberals claim that they cut auto insurance by 8%, and now the Liberals are keeping the report hidden from the public. What other embarrassing details are in the report that the government is so interested in keeping hidden?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, maybe the member opposite can revise her questioning as opposed to looking at a script, and maybe listen to the answer. The report is before us. It’s being reviewed. It will be released momentarily, in time. Let’s get it done.

But what we need is time to review it. Had it not been for the delays made by the opposition—and frankly, they have actually voted down the very measures necessary to reduce auto insurance rates. It looks like we’re going to have to do this without their help. It will be released shortly, it will be before the House, and it will come out in time.

Education funding

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Let’s hope the report is original and not cleansed by the Liberal Party.

My next question is to the Premier, Speaker. People are wondering how they can actually trust this Premier. On April 20, 2014, the Premier said, “We won’t cut education,” but education consultation documents say that the Premier’s plan is to cut $500 million from education. Why is the Premier breaking the promise she made to Ontarians just seven months ago? Besides the election being over, what else has changed?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Education will want to speak to the specifics, but the fact is that education funding continues to go up under this government. The reality is that we have a very strong record in terms of increasing education, but also supporting the publicly funded education of our students, and we will continue to do that.

The nine-page platform that the NDP put out actually had a $600-million-a-year cut that would have had to take more funding out of education than the member opposite has frankly admitted. The reality is that we continue to put more money into education. We continue to support the publicly funded education system. That is part of the DNA of this government. We will continue to do that work.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Premier went on the campaign trail saying she wouldn’t cut education, but here she is, cutting education and leaving students behind. The Premier seems to be in denial. I call cutting $500 million out of education an education cut. What does the Premier call it?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Education.

Hon. Liz Sandals: Yes, thank you very much. I think what we do need to recognize is that this is a province where we have fewer children than we used to have. We need to have savings in the education system to account for the fact that we have fewer kids than we used to, but that doesn’t change the fact that we continue to increase the funding for education. We have invested this year $22.5 billion in education. That’s a 56.5% increase since 2003.

The funding for each and every child in Ontario’s education system has gone up over $4,000 per child since we took time—so yes, we do have the demographic reality, which not even the opposition can change, that the average family today has 1.1 children. They used to have four or five children. The opposition leader—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Pre-election, the Premier said that she wouldn’t cut education. Post-election, the Liberal government is slashing $500 million from education. Pre-election, she said auto rates had come down by 8%. Post-election, we see that they haven’t. Pre-election, she said she wouldn’t sell off assets. Post-election, she’s planning to sell off local hydro utilities. Pre-election, she said Ontarians would get answers on the gas plants. Post-election, she’s protecting key witnesses. Pre-election, she promised that child poverty would be reduced by 25%. Post-election, the government hasn’t even come close.

It has been five months since the election, and that’s five broken promises by this Premier, so I ask her again: What has changed, except that the election is over?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Unlike the party opposite, we understand that this is about finding savings. We actually think that what we want to do is fund the children who are in our school system, not fund empty seats.

Speaker, do you know that we are currently spending about $1 billion on empty seats? We think that there are some efficiencies and savings there, and in fact, our school board partners agree. They have done things like amalgamating back offices to get savings from joint back offices. They have amalgamated transportation. They’re sharing school space. We think that that’s a great use of school space, to have two boards come and share one school. That’s the sort of efficiency that we believe our school system can have, and still have a wonderful education system which is fully funded for students, not seats.

Justice system

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My question is for the Attorney General. As you know, when a person is released on bail, there are conditions imposed on them, such as house arrest or limiting where they can go. But if they break their bail conditions, they must return to court for further restrictions or go back to jail.

There are disturbing examples like Christopher Husbands, who is facing charges in connection with the Eaton Centre shooting while he was under house arrest. Clearly, no one was monitoring him.

Minister, how many individuals in Ontario are currently released on bail, and what happens when their bail conditions are broken?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Thank you very much. It’s a very important question, and it’s a very unfortunate situation.

When someone is released on bail, there are some conditions attached or there are no conditions attached. Where there are conditions attached, this person needs to respect the conditions that are attached to their release on bail, and if they fail to comply with the conditions, then they will be back in jail.

But I know there is some concern about the bail system. We’re told that there are too many people who have many conditions attached to their bail. There is a committee that was put together by my ministry to review the bail system.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Minister, I’m looking for numbers. I want a quantitative idea of how many people in Ontario are out on bail with a condition. You say you want to crack down on the underground economy, but you can’t even track the criminals who are already out there. How can it be that your ministry is not tracking this information? This is a matter of public safety. You have an obligation to follow through and make sure that those who break their bail conditions are punished.

Given that you have already admitted in an order paper question that you do not track this critical information, what steps will you take to ensure that people are following their bail conditions and that the people of Ontario are safe?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: The member is right. We do not collect statistics provincially on the number of people released on bail, because I can give a number today and the number is different tomorrow.

Copies of bail orders are provided to the appropriate police service, and the individual police services establish their own system and practices to monitor those who are out on bail. The police know which accused persons have been released on bail, and they pay special attention to high-risk individuals.

Pan Am Games

Mr. Paul Miller: My question is to the minister responsible for the Pan/Parapan Am Games. We know, despite the government’s mantra that everything is on budget and on time, that many of the construction projects for the Pan/Parapan Am Games are behind schedule. How far behind? Well, that information is going to cost you.

I suppose when you’re the government and you stage the most expensive multi-sports game in Canadian history and the costs keep going up, we shouldn’t be surprised when they demand over $4,000 from Canada’s most widely read newspaper to release documents about just how far behind they really are on these venues.

Will this government dispense with the outrageous fee requests and tell Ontarians the real status of the 10 new sports facilities under construction—information asked for by the Toronto Star—and any delays that are involved?

Hon. Michael Coteau: I’d like to thank the member for the important question today.

These are the most open and transparent games in the history of this country. In fact, if you look at multi-sporting games internationally, these are the most open and transparent games that have ever come forward.

We know that TO2015 is working with the requester to refine the scope of the FOI, to reduce the costs. But I think it’s important to understand that this process is an independent process. It’s impartial, and it’s conducted by the public service. In fact, it’s consistent with all other provinces. It’s the same process that was in place when the Conservatives were in power, and it’s the same process that was been in place when the NDP was in power.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: Speaker, the government has not released this information to the members of this House, and not to the Toronto Star and to all Ontarians, without a price.

Game organizers, in this electronic era, say they cannot provide the requested information on a disk, something routinely done by other ministries and agencies at all levels of this government.

These games’ organizations ultimately report to the minister and his ministry on how to provide electronic information. So will this minister and the government either require Pan/Parapan Am Games organizers to release the information right now or have the ministry obtain and then immediately release the requested information to the Ontario public?

Hon. Michael Coteau: Again, these games are the most open and transparent games ever brought forward in the history of this province and in the history of this country. We made sure that TO2015 was brought under the FOI legislation. It’s the first time that any games have been brought under this legislation.

TO2015 has fully complied with the FOI regulations, and again, it’s consistent with all other jurisdictions across this country. There are 6,000 pages that have been requested. TO2015 is working with the requester to ensure that information can be brought forward that is cost-effective. They’ll continue to work with them.

Public transit

Mr. Han Dong: My question is for the Minister of Transportation. As the proud member for Trinity–Spadina, I know how much my constituents care about public transit. It was, in fact, the most concerning issue in my riding during the last provincial election. The constituents use transit to get to work and to school in the morning and then home to their family and friends at end of the day. They want me to make sure that our government is doing everything we can to help keep public transit both safe and efficient.

I’m proud to have one of Canada’s busiest transportation hubs, Union Station, in my riding. Many people in my constituency use this hub to move around the city and the region.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: I heard a few weeks ago that there were some improvements to be made to the signalling system at Union Station. Could the minister provide the House with some more information on those improvements?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I want to thank the member from Trinity–Spadina not only for the question but also for his continued advocacy on behalf of those that he represents so well in this Legislature.

That member is correct. Two weeks ago, I was very happy to announce that our government is working to make transit more efficient for commuters in and around the greater Toronto and Hamilton area. We will be making improvements to the entire signalling system within the Union Station rail corridor. These improvements will ultimately enhance service reliability, eliminate track bottlenecks, increase train speeds and reduce operating costs. Work on this project will begin in 2015 and is expected to be completed by 2019.

Decisive actions like this help ensure that we are making it easier for transit riders to make seamless connections when travelling. It also ensures that we’re prepared ahead of time for the anticipated doubling of transit ridership over the next 20 years.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Han Dong: I want to thank the minister for his response. I know my constituents will be very happy to hear about these great improvements.

I recently heard an announcement by our government alongside Metrolinx and Ivanhoé Cambridge to further the redevelopment of Union Station by connecting it to a new downtown GO bus terminal. This is a very exciting announcement as this development will provide more travel options to my constituents and the GTHA.

Can the minister tell the House what implications these new bus terminals will have for commuters both in my riding and around the GTHA?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: Again, I want to thank the member from Trinity–Spadina for that question.

I am very proud to be a member of a government that actually invests in public transit. I can say that there are so many tangible examples to prove this fact. The member is right: This September, I was pleased to announce that Metrolinx will be partnering with Ivanhoé Cambridge to build a new downtown GO bus terminal at 45 Bay Street. This new terminal will provide commuters with better convenience and choice by having inter-city bus carriers GO, Via Rail, TTC and the UP Express all at one central location.

This terminal will also welcome GO Transit’s fleet of environmentally friendly double-decker buses to downtown Toronto. Construction of the terminal is expected to start in the spring of 2015 and will take approximately three years to complete.

Projects like these are an excellent example of what can happen when we work together with our private and public sector partners to invest in our communities. Thanks to the advocacy of that member and others on this side of the House, we’re getting the job done.

Health care

Mr. Steve Clark: My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. A month ago, I introduced my private member’s bill to bring more transparency and accountability to the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario. Since then, I’ve heard from people across our province. Their stories of running into the wall of silence as CPSO closed ranks, foiling attempts to get answers after the death of a loved one, are heartbreaking. They’ve convinced me that something needs to change, but the reality is, 3% of private members’ bills introduced here have received royal assent since 1975.

Minister, do you agree that the current complaints reporting system is broken, and will you work with me on my reasonable reforms in my bill to make some changes at CPSO?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Of course I’m always happy to work with my esteemed colleague from across the other side, but I want to point out that we’ve already made and are making important changes in terms of transparency, accountability and oversight for all of our regulatory bodies, including the CPSO.

In fact, several weeks ago, I wrote to all of the regulatory bodies that have a role to play in oversight in the health care sector, asking them to incorporate additional transparency measures in their business plans and to report back to the ministry by December 1 with regard to the specific activities they will undertake on a go-forward basis with regard to further transparency and accountability. I believe it’s good for the colleges, it’s certainly good for our health sector and it’s good for Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Steve Clark: Back to the minister: Minister, I know you’re a doctor, but I think we have to acknowledge that the system is broken and you have the authority to fix it.

Media reports indicate that just 2% of the 2,294 complaints investigated by CPSO last year were publicly available. What about the other 98%? Shouldn’t the veil of secrecy be lifted from those investigations? Only you have the power to give Ontarians the information that CPSO won’t voluntarily. The buck stops with you.

My question is, are you going to stand with patients and transparency, or are you going to close ranks with fellow doctors and the CPSO?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’m not sure if the member opposite was actually listening to the first response I made to the question—that we are taking action. I think it goes without saying that my top priority and the priority of this government is the health and safety and well-being of all Ontarians. The mandate of the CPSO, the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, as with all regulatory bodies in the health sector, is that same objective: the health, safety and protection of Ontarians. I know that the CPSO and the other bodies are working diligently toward that object.

We are not standing still on this issue whatsoever. We have taken a number of measures that I articulated in the first part of my answer. Transparency is of utmost importance. It makes for a better health care system. An informed patient in Ontario is important in terms of strengthening the quality of care that they receive. It’s certainly something that we continue to work diligently on, Mr. Speaker.

Tobacco control

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est également pour le ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée.

In 2008, my private member’s bill to prevent the sale of flavoured cigarillos passed. You know about this very well; we co-sponsored it. But tobacco companies worked overtime to find loopholes in the law. The tobacco companies’ unwillingness to co-operate motivated the Big Tobacco Lies campaign from the youth group of the cancer society, and they are here with us today.

Last year, your government said that they wanted to ban flavoured tobacco. I’ve reintroduced the bill to ban flavoured tobacco products. My question is simple: Will you support the bill?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: To the Associate Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I want to thank the member opposite for the question. I also want to thank her for coming out today, as she was out with me and a number of other MPPs. We had a great tug-of-war organized by the Canadian Cancer Society. On the one side we had flavoured tobacco, and on the other side was the good side. I’m happy to say that the good side won and flavoured tobacco lost the tug-of-war.

But it’s important that we win the real war against flavoured tobacco and the way they are trying to make inroads into our youth. This government and I are committed to doing everything that we need to do to ensure that we make Ontario the lowest-smoking jurisdiction.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: Speaker, did you know that today, 57,000 youth are going to use flavoured tobacco right here in Ontario?

We know that the packaging, the price, the distribution and the marketing of flavoured tobacco target young people. Flavoured tobacco is, most of the time, the first product that youth consume. Other products, such as smokeless and imitation tobacco, follow the exact same business model. They are all meant to seem harmless, but they encourage experimentation, and they make sure that the next generation of smokers gets addicted.

Youth are in attendance today, and they want to know: How much longer will we have to wait before we protect our youth and before the government acts and bans flavoured tobacco in Ontario?

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I really appreciate the question from the member opposite, but I do want to point out that before the election, this government introduced legislation that would have banned flavoured tobacco. If that side had supported us and not brought forward an unwarranted election, by now flavoured tobacco would be banned in Ontario.

On this side of the House, we walk the talk. We actually do things to reduce smoking, and that is why you probably heard my announcement last week, when we banned smoking on outdoor patios, and we re-committed to bringing back legislation to ban flavoured tobacco, legislation that would have passed if you had supported us.

Child care

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde: Ma question est pour la ministre de l’Éducation.

Minister, the safety of our children is something we, and I, take very seriously. Since 2003, this government has prioritized child care and early childhood education. We know it’s important to families that they have access to safe and modern child care in order to make sure our kids get the best possible start. This is why we’ve introduced Bill 10, the Child Care Modernization Act.

I know that when you hear about the four deaths in unlicensed care, and the call from the Ombudsman to take urgent action, it is imperative we move fast in getting this legislation passed. That is why, Minister, I was so pleased to welcome you to Ottawa to meet with several members of the CICPO in Ottawa. Minister, can you please tell us about these discussions?

Hon. Liz Sandals: I’d like to thank the member from Ottawa–Orléans for the question.

Last Friday, I was very pleased to meet, with my Ottawa colleagues, with a number of representatives from the CICPO—that’s the association representing the independent child care providers in the Ottawa area. We had a very good discussion with them. I do take their concerns very seriously, and we had a good discussion of the issues. There will be some areas where we disagree.

Passing this bill, Bill 10, which is what we were talking about—we do need to remember that it’s about the safety of our children in care, and that we can’t afford to delay it any further. By playing games, the opposition is delaying implementing safety measures for our children.

The recently released Ombudsman report is crystal clear that if we don’t make some of these fundamental legislative changes to the child care sector, we are putting children—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde: Minister, on behalf of my colleagues in Ottawa, I want to say thank you—merci—for coming to meet with members of the CICPO. The open and transparent conversation was appreciated by those in attendance. There were some constructive ideas that emerged, and I look forward to working with those in my own riding to ensure further progress on those ideas.

However, Minister, we keep hearing irresponsible comments coming from the party opposite. They themselves are creating confusion that they say exists in this sector. Minister, my understanding from my colleagues on the committee is that there are many stakeholders who have expressed their support for Bill 10. Can you please elaborate?

Hon. Liz Sandals: I do want to acknowledge that after the discussions in Ottawa, we were able to get back to the Ottawa members with some updated information for their constituents.

But with respect to the public hearings on Bill 10, I think it’s interesting to note what some of the presenters have said. For example, the Home Child Care Association Of Ontario said, “Bill 10 represents a very important step forward to increasing the basic safety for these children.”

Anne Laws from Montessori Quality Assurance said, “The government of Ontario has strived to ensure the safety and well-being of young children by introducing Bill 10.”

Carolyn Ferns from the Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care said, “There is broad support ... for the many protective measures provided for in Bill 10. ...it’s an excellent bill.... We have ... support for it.”

The Atkinson Centre for Society and Child Development concluded, “A modernization of child care legislation is long overdue.”

Public transit

Mr. Michael Harris: My question is to the Premier. Premier, will you commit to fund and implement John Tory’s $15-billion SmartTrack plan? Yes or no?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Transportation.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: What an interesting—fascinating, in fact—question from this particular member. I say “fascinating” because repeatedly, week after week, this member stands up and does his very best to throw cold water and to suggest there are all kinds of reasons that we shouldn’t move forward with building Ontario up.

I know that over the last number of weeks, and certainly going forward, this Premier and our government on transit and on transportation infrastructure projects that are so crucial to communities like Toronto, like Kitchener-Waterloo and so many others—we’ll work, of course, closely with all of our municipal partners. That is the best way to move the province forward and also the best way to make sure that, as we invest the $29 billion over the next 10 years—$29 billion that that member and his party opposed in our budget—that we’ll get the job done right.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Harris: Such a simple question. John Tory won a mandate for his seven-year SmartTrack plan last month—in fact, the clock is already ticking—and it’s your responsibility to ensure that concurrent plans using our tracks and tax dollars make sense.

Now that the finance minister has admitted to a gaping half-billion-dollar hole in your tax-and-spend barrel, major financial commitments like the $15 billion you will use for GTA transit plans must have stable funding, in fact, to move forward.

We already know you plan to tax us with HOT lanes and gas tax for transit, but can you commit today that the $15 billion announced for GTA transit will not mean other new and increased taxes for Ontarians?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I want to thank the member for that supplementary question that kind of went all over the place. I think what’s really important to remember, Speaker, for that member in particular, given that he represents the wonderful community of Kitchener-Waterloo, is that we actually have a plan to move his community forward, to build the province up. We plan and will, in fact, deliver over the next 10 years on two-way all-day GO service, regional express rail, which will provide the people of his community with the extraordinary opportunity to take the GO train service. That is part of our $29-billion plan over the next 10 years to build the province up.

We will work closely with Mayor-Elect Tory. We’ll work closely with mayors from his community, mayors right across the province of Ontario to—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Kitchener–Waterloo, come to order.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: —and I sincerely hope, Speaker, that that member and his party will belatedly get on board with our plan to move the province forward. It’s never too late for that member and his party to do the right thing.

Why did the Premier say one thing during the election and break her promise to persons with disabilities now?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure is going to want to speak to this because the issues around helping people with disabilities to get into the workforce and making sure that we have an accessible society are very much a part of his mandate.

I just want to be very clear that our commitment to making Ontario accessible is firm. The reason that the accountability rests with the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure is that we know that one of the fundamental challenges for people with disabilities is accessing the labour market, becoming part of the economy, being able to use their skills and their talents. It’s a fundamental part of the work that the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure is doing, and I know that he will want to speak to the specifics.

I understand that the standards that have been put in place are being enacted and being enforced, and that we have more standards that we are going to be working on.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Cindy Forster: The Premier’s mandate letters give ministers their marching orders, but the letter asks the minister to do nothing but explore new standards.

Even the former minister admitted that compliance was unacceptably low; that 70% of private sector companies with 20-plus employees are in violation of the act.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure.

We’re determined to continue to make progress. We’re talking about billions of dollars of economic opportunity that will be there for our private sector, will be there for our taxpayers, will be there for our economy if we’re able to achieve these very ambitious goals that we’ve set out to achieve. We’re the first jurisdiction in the world to set out in a legislative way to move forward in this way.

Federal-provincial fiscal policies

Ms. Daiene Vernile: My question is for the Premier, in her capacity as the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. I think this is an important question, and I certainly want to hear the answer to this.

Premier, I understand that you have written to the Prime Minister on a number of occasions wanting to meet with him to talk about shared goals; for instance, talking about economic growth, developing safe and prosperous communities and building a strong Ontario within Canada.

There are other things to talk about, including working collaboratively with Ottawa on public infrastructure.

Given the number of severe projects we have in Canada that need attending to, it would be a good idea to get together to talk about this. How about talking about the auto sector, international trade and the reduction of trade barriers?

Premier, has the federal government been willing to meet with you to talk about these important interests?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I want to thank the member for the question.

As many in this House know, it has been more than 11 months since I’ve had the opportunity to meet with Prime Minister Stephen Harper face to face.

On September 16, I wrote to the Prime Minister, requesting a meeting to discuss a variety of issues relating to economic growth, developing safe and prosperous communities, and building a strong Ontario within a strong Canada, because I think those things are connected. As the member mentioned, there are several areas where I think we can have a more collaborative relationship; working together to create opportunities to build more security throughout people’s lives.

Just yesterday, Prime Minister Harper replied, but he made no mention of my meeting request.

That’s why I’ve written again this morning, requesting a meeting before the end of 2014. I believe that it’s a much better situation when the Prime Minister of Canada and the Premier of our country’s biggest province are able to work together collaboratively, so I look forward to hearing the Prime Minister’s answer.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Daiene Vernile: Thank you for that answer, Premier.

I think that there are other things that we need to talk about; for instance, federal transfers. How about talking about our employment insurance system that really does not seem to meet the realities of our modern labour market?

We are also moving on in Ontario with a provincial public pension plan that’s aimed at securing better retirement for our future and for our citizens, but could we be talking with Ottawa about making sure that all Canadians coast to coast have the same?

Finally, this House has called on the federal government to take action to address violence against aboriginal women and girls.

Premier, how can we work collaboratively with Ottawa? How do you do this job?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: You know, Mr. Speaker, I’m listening to some of the heckling on the other side, but this is not a partisan issue. This is about the Prime Minister of Canada meeting with the Premier of the largest province in Canada. I think that working collaboratively is exactly what needs to happen: creating jobs and growth in the economy, working together to reduce congestion so that we spend less time commuting and more time with our families, and building and renovating the schools, hospitals and roads that allow Ontarians to function.

My concern is that the current system of federal/ provincial fiscal arrangements is working against, not for, the people of Ontario, and that is a discussion that needs to happen. My fear is, as the federal government has been missing in action in terms of working with the province, that that would continue, and I don’t think that that’s acceptable.

We have asked for that meeting. I hope we’ll be able to talk about investment in the Ring of Fire, infrastructure and the ways that we can collaborate.

Wind turbines

Mr. Rick Nicholls: My question is to the Premier. A Chatham-Kent constituent of mine found an 18-inch

section of a wind turbine blade on his farm while farming this spring. He found a blade on his property some 400 feet from the base of the turbine in question. I have documented proof, and I will be sending these pictures over to you for review.

Fortunately, there was no damage to his property or personal injury to anyone, but this raises a very serious safety issue. Picture a 2.3-megawatt turbine with a blade length of 135 feet, standing some 400 feet tall. It should also be noted that the blade tip speed rate rotates at 164 miles per hour.

I, along with many of my riding, am rightly concerned for the safety of my residents. Premier, my question to you is simply this: Will your government do the right thing and put a moratorium on turbine developments until there is a thorough review of safety standards pertaining to industrial wind turbines?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: First of all, I want to thank the member for bringing that particular issue to our attention. It’s not something that I had been advised of previously, but certainly we will take that under advisement. We’ll look at the circumstances around this particular issue.

We do have a very robust environmental assessment process moving forward, but I think we have to understand that, when something like this happens, we need to look at it very carefully in terms of public safety. It’s the same as a piece of metal falling off an airplane, which occasionally occurs; you try to avoid those things happening as much as possible.

I take your question seriously. We’ll look into the circumstances. I will consult with my colleague the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change with respect to environmental assessments—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: —and we will check with our—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. I shouldn’t have to say “thank you” twice.

Supplementary?

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Well, the message from the government could very well be that public safety isn’t a problem, but Premier, recently Transport Canada ordered GDF SUEZ in my riding to take down eight industrial wind turbines that have violated airport zoning regulations at the Chatham municipal airport.

Premier, I’ve spoken with many pilots, and they all say that it’s too dangerous to fly in and out of that airport, especially when there are adverse weather conditions. These turbines pose a huge safety issue around any airport, whether it be in Chatham or even Collingwood. Literally translated, Premier, an encounter with one of these imposing turbines or pieces of shrapnel will result in body bags. None of us want that.

Premier, safety trumps all, and I know you know that. I’m not an aerospace engineer, but I do know that shrapnel travelling at close to 200 miles per hour poses a significant safety risk for aircraft and humans.

My question, Premier, is this: Will your government take the initiative, since you are paying huge subsidies, and review turbine placement and provincial safety standards for turbine erection in all of Ontario?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Minister of the Environment.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: First, I want to say that we take these things very seriously, and safety standards have to be second to none, so I want to assure the member that both myself and my colleagues on this side will take it seriously.

I do want to make sure that we have perspective on this, because I know you live about two blocks from here, and I know that the building next door to you had several large pieces fall off of it, and glass fell to the street. That was one of about seven buildings in central Toronto at which that happened. That is also an equally serious problem. No one opposite suggested that we put a moratorium on condominium construction in Toronto, because you know what the reaction would be.

We have to make sure that we’re taking all of these problems seriously. We take this very seriously when we see glass falling out of a condo tower or when we see a piece coming off a wind turbine. But wind turbines cannot be held to a higher standard of safety than any other similar situation. I hope that we’ll get as many questions on condo towers as we’ll get on wind turbines.

Unemployment

Ms. Peggy Sattler: My question is to the Premier. Statistics Canada job numbers released earlier this month were bad news for London. At 7.5%, London’s unemployment rate is now a full percentage point higher than the Ontario average. Not only has the unemployment gap widened between London and the rest of the province, but the stats also show fewer people are working in London and fewer people are looking for work.

Will the Premier admit that her jobs plan is failing to address London’s economic challenges?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Actually, Mr. Speaker, no, I won’t do that, and I will ask the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure to speak to the supplementary.

But what I will say is that we recognize that the economic recovery has looked different in different parts of the province. We absolutely understand that. I know that there are people in this province who are still not able to get the jobs that they are capable of, and that businesses still need support. That’s why we have different strategies in different parts of the province. That’s why we have regional development funds, such as the Southwestern Ontario Development Fund. That’s why we have taken the initiative to make sure that we understand the economy of different regions in the province.

We know our work is not done, but we also know that the direction we’re going in is exactly the one we need, and that the economic recovery is taking hold but not evenly in all parts of the province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: Speaker, the numbers speak for themselves. Last