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September 19, 2013

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2013-Sep-19 (PDF)

L060 - Thu 19 Sep 2013 / Jeu 19 sep 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 19 September 2013 Jeudi 19 septembre 2013

ORDERS OF THE DAY

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

AMENDMENT ACT

(LEAVES TO HELP FAMILIES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES NORMES D’EMPLOI

(CONGÉS POUR AIDER LES FAMILLES)

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ PHOTO

ORAL QUESTIONS

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

PUBLIC TRANSIT

GOVERNMENT’S AGENDA

PUBLIC TRANSIT

LONG-TERM CARE

SCHOOL SAFETY

PUBLIC TRANSIT

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

TENDERING PROCESS

THUNDER BAY GENERATING STATION

RESEARCH AND INNOVATION

YOUTH SERVICES

HEALTH CARE

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

TALL SHIPS

HAMILTON MUSIC COLLECTIVE

ARMENIAN COMMUNITY

WALSH’S SNUG

RUN FOR HEROES MARATHON

LLOYDTOWN REBELLION

ONTARIO JUNIOR CITIZEN OF THE YEAR AWARDS

ABSOLUTE WORLD TOWERS

GLENGARRY FINE CHEESE

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PROTECTION OF MINORS

IN AMATEUR SPORTS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LA PROTECTION

DES MINEURS PARTICIPANT

À DES SPORTS AMATEURS

PETITIONS

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

AIR QUALITY

REPLACEMENT WORKERS /

TRAVAILLEURS SUPPLÉANTS

PUBLIC TRANSIT

FISHING AND HUNTING REGULATIONS

LONG-TERM CARE

HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

SHALE BEACH

WIND TURBINES

AIR QUALITY

AIR QUALITY

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

CULTURAL DIVERSITY

FAIR AND OPEN TENDERING ACT (LABOUR RELATIONS FOR CERTAIN PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYERS IN THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 POUR DES APPELS

D’OFFRES ÉQUITABLES ET OUVERTS (RELATIONS DE TRAVAIL CHEZ CERTAINS EMPLOYEURS DU SECTEUR PUBLIC DANS L’INDUSTRIE

DE LA CONSTRUCTION)

CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES

AMENDMENT ACT (CHILDREN

16 YEARS OF AGE AND OLDER), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES SERVICES

À L’ENFANCE ET À LA FAMILLE

(ENFANTS DE 16 ANS ET PLUS)

CULTURAL DIVERSITY

FAIR AND OPEN TENDERING ACT (LABOUR RELATIONS FOR CERTAIN PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYERS IN THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 POUR DES APPELS

D’OFFRES ÉQUITABLES ET OUVERTS (RELATIONS DE TRAVAIL CHEZ CERTAINS EMPLOYEURS DU SECTEUR PUBLIC DANS L’INDUSTRIE

DE LA CONSTRUCTION)

CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES

AMENDMENT ACT (CHILDREN

16 YEARS OF AGE AND OLDER), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES SERVICES

À L’ENFANCE ET À LA FAMILLE

(ENFANTS DE 16 ANS ET PLUS)

CULTURAL DIVERSITY

FAIR AND OPEN TENDERING ACT (LABOUR RELATIONS FOR CERTAIN PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYERS IN THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 POUR DES APPELS

D’OFFRES ÉQUITABLES ET OUVERTS (RELATIONS DE TRAVAIL CHEZ CERTAINS EMPLOYEURS DU SECTEUR PUBLIC DANS L’INDUSTRIE

DE LA CONSTRUCTION)

ORDERS OF THE DAY

WIRELESS SERVICES

AGREEMENTS ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LES CONVENTIONS

DE SERVICES SANS FIL

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Orders of the day.

Hon. John Gerretsen: Good morning, Speaker, and good morning to everyone here in the Legislature and to those who may be watching today on television. The government is pleased to call government order G21.

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

AMENDMENT ACT

(LEAVES TO HELP FAMILIES), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES NORMES D’EMPLOI

(CONGÉS POUR AIDER LES FAMILLES)

Resuming the debate adjourned on September 18, 2013, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 21,

An Act to amend the Employment Standards Act, 2000 in respect of family caregiver, critically ill child care and crime-related child death or disappearance leaves of absence / Projet de loi 21, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2000 sur les normes d’emploi en ce qui concerne le congé familial pour les aidants naturels, le congé pour soins à un enfant gravement malade et le congé en cas de décès ou de disparition d’un enfant dans des circonstances criminelles.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Mr. Ted Arnott: I’m very pleased to have this opportunity this morning to speak, on behalf of our Progressive Conservative caucus as well as my constituents in Wellington–Halton Hills, on this Bill 21, which was introduced in the Ontario Legislature on March 5, 2013, by the Minister of Labour. The

long title of the bill is

An Act to amend the Employment Standards Act, 2000 in respect of family caregiver, critically ill child care and crime-related child death or disappearance leaves of absence, and the

short title of the bill, or how we’ve been referring to it here, is the family caregiver leave bill.

It’s an amendment to the Employment Standards Act that would provide for unpaid leave from work for certain families and individuals as well—up to eight weeks of unpaid leave—if there’s a sick child in the family, perhaps an elderly parent who needs care, or a spouse or sibling. The government has announced, in its introduction of this bill, that this is intended to stand up for the principle that no one should have to worry about losing their job if they have a family member who is ill and in need of attention and care.

As you know, Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House have participated in the debate quite enthusiastically, and a number of our members have had the chance to speak to this bill. There are 107 members of provincial Parliament, and obviously, we all have this opportunity to respond to government legislation and bring forward our own ideas and suggestions. In this minority Parliament, our caucus is very enthusiastic about participating in debates on pieces of legislation. and this one is no different.

I recently had an opportunity to send a newsletter to my constituents, and I included in my newsletter a survey. I tend to do this, because I appreciate the feedback from my constituents.

A gentleman from Fergus responded to my survey just this week, and his comments were: “I wish you would stop being so negative and critical of this Liberal government. You were elected to represent us and to work with the government in solving our problems.”

I want to respond to him in public. I haven’t got permission to use his name, of course, but I do want to respond to him in public that, certainly, I do make an effort every single day to work with this government. I feel honoured and privileged to be here in this Legislature, and I reach across the aisle all the time on issues that matter to my constituents.

Certainly, this piece of legislation is another example, because our party intends to support it in principle. We agree that there need to be changes to the Employment Standards Act to ensure that families who have this sort of situation, where there’s someone ill in the family who needs the care of other family members—people should be given the opportunity to take up to eight weeks of unpaid leave from work, so as to look after that loved one.

Our caucus has, of course, made a number of observations over the course of this bill. We are glad that the Liberals actually listened to our concerns last session and have made significant changes and improvements to this bill from the previous version of the family caregiver leave act that was introduced in this House some time ago. We’re pleased that this legislation actually eliminates inconsistencies between the federal labour code and provincial labour laws, instead of creating inconsistencies.

I think it’s important to point out a little more detail about the bill this morning, so that people who are listening to the debate and perhaps watching on TV can understand a little bit more about it. The bill proposes several amendments to the Employment Standards Act, to mimic similar changes that the federal government has made to the labour code of Canada and to introduce a proposed family caregiver leave for up to eight unpaid weeks per year.

To qualify for the leave, the employee must be caring for an individual whom a physician has deemed to have had a critical injury or illness and cannot care for themselves. The leave would mirror the family medical leave significantly, except that it will not include the provision of significant risk of death within a 26-week period.

It introduces a critically ill child care leave and unpaid job-protected leave for up to 37 weeks for parents caring for a critically ill child.

It introduces a crime-related child death or disappearance leave and unpaid job-protected leave of up to 104 weeks for an employee whose child dies, if it is probably the result of a crime, or up to 52 weeks for an employee whose child disappears, if it is probably the result of a crime.

As you’ll recall, Mr. Speaker, this legislation was originally introduced as Bill 30, the Family Caregiver Leave Act, in the last session, and originally only contained provisions to introduce the family caregiver leave without any necessary consultation with stakeholders or demonstration that there was actually a demonstrated need for these changes. However, this legislation actually closes up inconsistencies between the Canada Labour Code and the Employment Standards Act, which our caucus maintains is a good thing.

In June 2013, the federal government started paying out benefits for the federal equivalent of the proposed critically ill child care leave. As of January 1, 2013, earlier this year, the federal government began providing grants lasting 35 weeks for the equivalent of the proposed crime-related child death or disappearance leave.

This provincial legislation, if passed by the Legislature, will incur no costs provincially; just protect the job from termination. I think that’s an important point that has been made by our caucus: This is not something that will replace the income of the family caregiver who has to take time off from work. In fact, there is no cost to the government for this bill, but perhaps a cost for small business and business owners. Again, this is why this bill should go to committee for further discussion.

There are currently only two leaves available to workers in Ontario that are protected under the Employment Standards Act. Family medical leave is an unpaid job-protected leave of up to eight weeks in a 26-week period. To be eligible, a qualified health practitioner must issue a statement stating that the individual to be cared for has a serious medical condition with a significant risk of death occurring within a period of 26 weeks. Under the federal Employment Insurance Act, six weeks of employment insurance benefits may be paid to EI-eligible employees for this leave.

The other one is personal emergency leave. Some employees have the right to take up to 10 days of unpaid job-protected leave each calendar year due to illness, injury and certain other emergencies and urgent matters. Only individuals who work for a company that regularly employs more than 50 employees are eligible for this leave.

Again, I think the principle of this bill, that people should be given the opportunity to take a period of time away from work to care for family members who are ill, or if there has been an accident or if there’s an elderly parent who requires that sort of family support—that their job should be held open for them, is a principle that our caucus supports. When this debate at second reading does conclude, we certainly intend to support it and send this bill to committee.

The committee process is very important as well with bills such as this, because there are other organizations and individuals who have an interest in this. Some will want it strengthened; others will want it clarified; others will want it improved in other ways. Certainly, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the organization that represents, I think, hundreds of thousands of businesses across Canada, may very well want to participate in a discussion on this issue because they represent small business owners and small business people generally.

Of course, this bill will certainly have an impact on them, but I also think that every responsible small business owner who wants to retain employees would be very compassionate in these sorts of situations and in the vast majority of cases would be willing to provide assurance that a job will be maintained while an employee has to attend to a family matter such as this.

I think that process through the standing committee will ensure that this bill will be strengthened and improved, and those public hearings will be important. For those reasons, we want to continue this debate. I know there are other members of the House who will want to speak to this bill, certainly members of our caucus who want to stand up on behalf of their constituents as well, so as to ensure that their constituents’ views are represented in this House.

We have an outstanding caucus, and it has been strengthened by the emergence of a new member for Etobicoke–Lakeshore, Doug Holyday, who has done an extraordinary job in just two weeks here. You heard him yesterday in question period. We’re very pleased to have his participation in the House.

I also want to congratulate the other four members who have been elected in the by-elections on August 1. This is the second week we’ve been back, but I hadn’t really had the opportunity to do that. Each of them, I’m sure, brings to this House the views of their constituents and their own beliefs, and they want to make a difference to make the province of Ontario a better place. We all certainly wish them well as we embark upon the remaining days of this Parliament.

We look forward to the opportunity to continue to participate in debates and to bring forward our ideas, our concerns and our suggestions. But certainly, those of us in the opposition have an obligation and a responsibility—and I say this to my constituent who sent the survey back—to point out the flaws and the drawbacks of the government’s legislation, because you can know one thing for sure: The government is not going to do it. In our system of parliamentary democracy, that’s the role of the opposition and it’s a role that that we cherish as an opposition party. Thank you very much.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. Questions and comments? The member for Essex.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Good morning, to members in the chamber. I wanted to thank my colleague the member for Wellington–Halton Hills for his submission this morning. I think he has reiterated some of the very scenarios that apply to this Bill 21, the family caregiver leave act.

As we’ve debated this bill for many hours in this chamber—maybe too many hours—I think we’ve heard submissions from a whole host of members in terms of how this level of support, or protection, rather, will benefit members of our communities. Therefore, I think it has broad support. When I spoke to the bill last week, as we resumed, I talked about the fact that my mother has travelled to British Columbia to give care to her sister, my Aunt Patti—I want to again say hi to Aunt Patti; I love you and we’re all cheering for you—as Aunt Patti is going through radiation treatment and chemotherapy for cancer, and has just recently had a mastectomy.

I talked to Aunt Patti last week, and she was doing great; she was doing fantastic. I told her about this bill. I said, “We’re debating a bill that kind of is the scenario that you’re going through. It’s a family member who is there to provide care for another family member.” I said, “What do you think about that?” She said, “Taras, you can’t believe the difference of care that it makes when a family member is there, rather than an outside support agency, someone who you don’t have a connection with.”

It just goes so much further in terms of the healing process and the fact that that patient, that family member who is undergoing treatment or stress or whatever the scenario is, can have that space to heal properly and get back to normal living. So the ramifications of this bill go far beyond simply protection under the law, under the Employment Standards Act. It goes to the fundamental aspects of society: caring for each other as a family.

I applaud the bill and I look forward to supporting it.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Mike Colle: I appreciated the comments from the member from Wellington. He’s always a very thoughtful member of this House, and it’s true that he does have a lot of good relationships with all parties here. But he knows full well that we’ve got to get on to passing some legislation—like this one—that needs to be passed for the good of the people of Ontario. There’s no need to be filibustering all these bills, especially as these are bills that the members of the official opposition agree with. Yet they filibuster and filibuster and filibuster and delay and delay and delay and obfuscate.

This is about helping people who are in a very vulnerable situation when they have to take care of their loved ones. So if we can’t get on with passing one bill—but every bill is being filibustered.

The public housing bill, the co-op bill—poor Harvey Cooper. Poor Harvey has been here crying in the audience for—what?—a year. Poor Harvey has been on his knees begging to help the people with a minor change in the housing bill.

I would hope the good member from Wellington, who is, as I said, very thoughtful, would have some persuasion over the party elite there to get away from this nonsense and this obfuscation of delay, delay, delay, and help people who need this help at home, the caregiver support—and poor people like Harvey and all the people in co-op housing who are asking for one little change, yet it gets filibustered and filibustered. For the sake of Harvey, for the sake of people who need help at home and all the Harveys out there, please, let’s get on and pass this very significant piece of legislation that may not be a huge one, but it is significant.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mrs. Jane McKenna: I hope Harvey is watching this today. He has had his name mentioned quite a few times, and we all really appreciate all the efforts that Harvey has done.

I’d like to get up and reiterate what our statesman from Wellington–Halton Hills has said today. As legislators, we’re constantly asked to consider the merits of legislation that is brought before us. We are expected to open it up and shine a light around the inner workings of each proposed bill. We are obligated ultimately to ask serious and thoughtful questions about the intent, language and mechanisms of this proposed legislation; to applaud the forward-looking aspects but also to point out the blind spots; to go over what has been included and what has been left out; and to discuss the bill in the larger context of what government does and how society operates.

I expect that this bill would benefit from public input at committee. I also hope that the government would, at the same time, give serious consideration to addressing shortcomings in the wider system that family caregivers rely on. If this government really wishes to demonstrate compassion and make it possible for every working man and woman in the province meet their commitments to family when a crisis occurs, they have to look at the larger dynamic.

As I’ve said before, what we’re looking at is unpaid leave for a family member to fill in the blanks that exist in a system that is in considerable disrepair. Bill 21 is a good-hearted bill, but it seems to operate with only one foot in reality. And reality is where the bill will succeed or fail.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: It is my honour today to stand up and to speak on this bill.

I have very good friends in Windsor; Steve and Madeline Cernak have been very active in the community for many years. They took this past summer off to look after Steve’s elder sister. Steve’s parents had passed away when he was relatively young, and the elder sister sort of became the mother in the family and looked after Steve, and over the summer Madeline and Steve put their jobs aside and went out and looked after her before she passed on.

So this bill does mean a lot to me. I think of all my friends in the Royal Canadian Legion who are at that age now—they’re in their 80s and 90s—and they’re becoming more and more frail. They need the extra care and caregiving as well.

I had the honour, last weekend, with the Minister of Children and Youth Services, to lay a wreath at the Windsor Cenotaph. I’ll be doing another wreath for the Legion tomorrow and another one on the weekend in the town of Tecumseh. Tomorrow is with branch 255 of the Royal Canadian Legion. But every time I hang out with my Legion buddies, I’m reminded of how frail they are and the extra care that they need.

I think neighbours looking after neighbours is part of this as well. I know in my neighbourhood in the Blue Heron area in Windsor, we have two friends, Paul and Rick, who mow the lawn, shovel the snow and help everybody out. Our neighbourhood association is very tight like that, looking after each other. In fact, last weekend, we had our annual celebration and they gave me a small stone with a blue heron on it to bring here to Queen’s Park as a paperweight, and I value that very much.

When it comes to this bill, I fully support it and all the caregiving that we need in our communities.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Wellington–Halton Hills, you have two minutes.

Mr. Ted Arnott: I am very pleased to reply to the members who have offered comments. Thank you to the member for Burlington for her compliments, certainly; to the members from Essex and Windsor–Tecumseh, who sit with the New Democrats, thank you for your comments and your compassion and approach to this issue. I want to thank the member from Eglinton–Lawrence, the government member who responded, as well. I wish to respond to a couple of the core points that he made.

He suggested that our side was filibustering this bill. I would submit and suggest we are not filibustering this bill; we are in fact debating this bill. This is what it’s all about in this Legislature. We have the opportunity, as elected members, to come in here and respond to the government’s initiatives. Certainly, a huge number of our members want to speak to these pieces of legislation and we have every right to do so.

I spoke for 10 minutes earlier. Maybe it seemed longer than 10 minutes to some who were listening, but in fact, it was 10 minutes. It’s hardly a filibuster when it’s a 10-minute speech.

The member for Eglinton–Lawrence suggested that we on this side of the House need to get on with it and allow the passage of some of these bills that have been debated extensively. I agree with that. In fact, I think that it would be great if we could get on some of these pieces of legislation and get them to committee where they can be given public hearings and then referred back again, which is the normal process here, nothing out of the ordinary.

I also think and suggest that the provincial government needs to bring forward legislation to deal with jobs and the economy and the deficit crisis that the province is facing. These are huge issues that are facing the province of Ontario. Our unemployment rate is at an unacceptably high rate, hovering around 8% in many regions in the province. The deficit this year is $11.7 billion. I wonder if the government members are even aware of that in some cases. Do they pay attention to that? There’s a huge cost overrun again this year.

The provincial debt is going up $20 billion this year, from $253 billion to $273 billion. The provincial debt has doubled under the tenure of this Liberal government.

These are important issues too, and we would call upon the government to introduce legislation to deal with those huge challenges facing the province, and we’re prepared to debate those, too.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: Oh, Mr. Speaker, nobody else wants to speak to this bill. That’s disappointing. Bill 21 is an interesting bill in that it comes back to the House after it fell off the order table after the House prorogued for two or three months while the Liberals got their house in order—never mind the business of the province, never mind the unbelievable debt that we faced, never mind the record deficits that this government has run up, and never mind the 600,000 jobs that are facing the government. Never mind all those things; the government had to prorogue the House in order to get its house in order, and left bills like Bill 21 unattended.

However, they have returned. They have brought this bill back, the Employment Standards Amendment Act. They brought it back to the House, and it’s much amended. It’s changed from the bill that fell off the table during the proroguing of the House. It brings this bill much more in line with the Canada Labour Code, something that we harped on.

You have to talk a long time before this government begins to listen. They talk about us filibustering. We’re not filibustering; we’re talking a long time in order to get this government to listen, because they don’t hear very well. They don’t hear the people of Ontario, who are extremely concerned about the debt this government has run up. They’re extremely concerned about the record deficits, and they are even more concerned about the record number of jobs and jobless that are sitting idle in Ontario. That’s what people want to talk about, and yet here we are talking about Bill 21.

The member for Eglinton–Lawrence talked about filibustering, which I totally disagree with. But let’s suppose for a moment that we take Bill 21 and we pass it, and we pass four, five or six other bills that are sitting before the House and that have had some discussion before this House. If I look at the order paper, sitting on the order paper—what bills would we then discuss?

Would we discuss a bill to reduce the debt of Ontario? I can’t see a bill that deals with the debt of Ontario on the order paper, Mr. Speaker. There’s not one there to discuss.

Would we discuss a bill, let’s say, to reduce the debt in Ontario and balance the budget? Is there a bill on the order paper that would help do that, Mr. Speaker? I can’t find it. Perhaps the government could give me some assistance. I can’t find a bill there to discuss.

Would there be a bill on the order paper that would help create jobs in Ontario? Isn’t that the primary purpose of a government in Ontario, creating private sector jobs? Show me on the order paper: Where is the bill that we could discuss in front of this House that would help create jobs in Ontario? I can’t find it here. I can’t find it. It might be that there’s a job here—that would create the Financial Accountability Officer, and that’s going to create one job. It’s going to create the officer’s job, but it’s not going to solve the 600,000 unemployed.

Bring in some legislation that is worthy of discussing, on the three main issues that Ontario faces today, and we’ll see what happens to these other bills. You would like us to pass them, and then on faith—you say, “Oh, yes, we’ll bring in some substantive legislation on the financial issues facing Ontario. Trust us; we’ll do that.”

Well, Mr. Speaker, of all the governments in Ontario—and I’ve known either Premiers or members of the Legislature of the governments of Ontario going back to 1943, the year I was born; my grandfather sat here, and I knew him. Going back to 1943, I cannot think of a government that is less trustworthy than this one. Until legislation comes before us, I think we—

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Point of order.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Point of order. The Minister of Consumer Services.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Speaker, I defer to you, but it sounds like we’re far off the bill, and the language that’s starting to be used is concerning. I’d just refer to the standing order that requires the member to speak to the bill at hand.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. Will the member continue? But I’d ask you to stay on the topic of the bill that’s in front of us.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: Speaker, the moment that I was interrupted, I had just had the words “Bill 21” come out of my mouth. I say to the member that I’ll try to stay on topic, and I think I am on topic. I’m talking about Bill 21, but I’m talking about what Bill 21 is not. I know the government doesn’t want to hear what it’s not; it would far sooner have me talk about how this bill is a far better bill than it was in the last session, prior to proroguing the House. Of course, it’s almost impossible to mention proroguing the House without mentioning that it had to be done in order to choose a new leader.

It had never been done before in Ontario’s history. They had no faith in their old leader, and their new leader is a carbon copy—still not trustworthy; still can’t take their word for anything that happens.

Mr. Speaker, the member for Windsor talked about his experiences with his Legion friends and how their children quite often are called upon to look after them. I had that experience in Milton just this past summer, in August, where a good friend from the Legion fell down and broke her hip, and her three children are taking turns, rotating, looking after their mother and looking after their father, who is also getting to that age. I wouldn’t want to tell him that he’s frail, but to watch him move about, you know that he is somewhat frail.

This bill will help that family cope through a difficult situation where somebody in their—well, I won’t attach an age to her. I’ll see her, probably, Saturday evening, and I wouldn’t want to be faced with—

Interjection: The wrath.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: —the wrath. “Wrath” is a good word. But she has reached that age when she’s not going to be completing any Terry Fox runs anymore, although I’m sure she would try to be there at the start line.

So yes, this bill has great merit, and it has much better merit than it had the last time it appeared before this House, and I’m glad the government listened to us. I think we had eight or nine hours of discussion on this bill prior to proroguing, and after eight or nine hours the government did begin to listen. So if I harp away on things like the deficit, the debt and jobs at every opportunity I get, even though I’m speaking to Bill 21 and what’s not in it—and certainly, there’s nothing in it to reduce the debt, there’s nothing in it to balance the budget and there’s nothing in it to create jobs.

But if I harp away on those three items long enough and if we all do that, maybe it’ll begin to sink in with this government as they wend their way towards the next budget of March.

You know, you bought off the NDP this time with about $1 billion of promises that the NDP insisted on. I can tell you, next year’s budget is going to be a little bit more expensive. So get ready for that.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: How do you know that?

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: I know the NDP and I know the Liberals. It’ll be interesting to see what happens next March.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I would ask the member to keep on topic, please.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: We’ll see if Bill 21 brings the two parties together over the budget of next March to solve the problems of Ontario. I don’t think Bill 21 is going to be the bill that brings this government and the third party together. However, there will be something, and there will be much discussion on it. It will be interesting to see whether or not the government can actually survive the onslaught of the desires and wishes of the third party. Partnerships can be a very expensive business.

I would like to close, Mr. Speaker, by saying I’ll be pleased to support Bill 21 when it comes to a vote. By the time it comes to a vote, I sincerely hope that there will be some substantive legislation in front of this House that will deal with the debt, the deficit and jobs in Ontario.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Mantha: I always enjoy hearing the different views in debates. I really liked the presentation and the words that the member from Halton brought into the House.

On his theme in regard to what’s not in this bill, there are a few things that are not in there that are of great concern to some of the people I represent in Algoma–Manitoulin, particularly farmers, who are losing thousands and thousands of dollars because of their battle with an elk population that is just destroying their fields. That’s not in this bill either. The operating costs for small municipalities and their water treatment plants—this bill is not going to deal with that. And the small municipalities that are struggling with infrastructure dollars or a steady complement of infrastructure dollars—that’s not in this bill either.

I do feel the frustration from the member from Halton, however. He has his perception as to what happened in the last round of budgets. I have a different perspective. We actually rolled up our sleeves and we went to work. We accomplished quite a few things in the last round of budgets, and austerity is not always the best measure—in order to cut things. You sometimes have to invest in the people of this province, and we also have to look at these individuals who are most in need and help them. Although I understand your frustration, it’s not really factual as to what happened in the last round of negotiations with the budget.

What I do want to speak about is an individual who was very instrumental—who helped my aunt. I attended her funeral on Monday. This is what this bill could bring, and unfortunately, I’ve got 10 seconds left and I won’t be able to bring it up. But I’m looking forward to making these comments in the next round so I can give you a really good perspective of how this bill could actually help an individual get a job.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Let me tell the member opposite what is in this bill. This bill is about a compassionate society, Speaker. This bill is about loved ones being able to look after their family members who may be elderly or a child who may be severely sick. This is what this bill is about, and that is why it is so important that we pass this bill.

It was back in February that I, as the Minister of Labour, introduced this bill. There has been now more than 11 hours of debate, which sounds like all parties agree, and it does not make sense as to why this bill is not in front of the committee. Just two days ago, I had the opportunity to meet with the Alzheimer Society of Ontario, and that’s exactly the same question they asked of me. They said, “Why is this bill not at the committee?

When can we come and present to this bill?” I urge all the members to not just listen to the government, but listen to the caregiver coalition as to why they want this bill to be past second reading and in front of the committee so that whatever necessary amendments need to be made could be made to this bill and be brought back for third reading—because it is about how we build a compassionate Ontario.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mrs. Julia Munro: I’m pleased to be able to offer a couple of comments with regard to that given by the member for Halton. One of the things that the government finds itself doing is, on the one hand, justifying the importance of this bill and, on the other hand, saying we’ve had enough time to debate it when, in fact, the mechanics of this place are very simple. The government holds the key to what is going to be debated, so I think that it needs to be clarified for people to understand why this particular aspect keeps resurfacing and being tossed around in order to be able to justify what has happened in terms of the length of debate.

The other point that I would just like to make is that when the member for Halton spoke, he made reference to the fact that we as the opposition support this. We don’t see that there’s anything particularly egregious about the bill. I would suggest, and will later, that one of the problems that it represents is the smooth ability to actually bring it about. No one has talked about the kind of mechanics that will have to be created in order to make this a smooth transition for people to be able to take advantage of it. I think that is, perhaps, something that needs to be addressed.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’m very proud to stand up today, on behalf of my constituents in London West, to speak to Bill 21, the family caregiver leave act.

I listened carefully to the comments from the member from Halton and also to many of the comments that have been made in this place since I arrived here over two weeks ago. I’ve heard lots of personal stories from members who have spoken to this bill. I’m really pleased to hear that there is so much support from all sides of the House. Certainly, the NDP fully supports this bill and we want to do whatever we can to ensure that it’s passed. However, we also have some concerns.

For example, I’ve heard from one of my constituents in London West who is struggling to care for her adult child with a serious mental illness. This legislation would certainly help people like my constituent—when her son is facing a crisis, to take some unpaid leave to care for him, but she just can’t afford to do that. She can’t afford to take advantage of the provisions of this bill.

Another concern is that we need to make sure that employers are aware of the changes and that there are no reprisals for employees who take the leave. I worked at a small business in London West and was fortunate enough to have an understanding employer who enabled me to take leave to help care for my brother-in-law who was dying of cancer.

This bill will ensure that all employees have the ability to take leave to care for family members and don’t have to rely on the goodwill of their employers. That’s one of the key reasons that the NDP and I, myself, as the representative for London West, fully support this bill.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member from Halton, you have two minutes for a response.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: I’d like to thank the member for Algoma–Manitoulin. There is lots wrong with the world, and this bill will take a step, as the member points out, to fix some of those things that are wrong with the world, and that’s why I’m supporting this bill. There are some huge things wrong with the province of Ontario. I say to the member, you can’t spend yourself into prosperity. When you double the provincial debt and double the provincial budget over a period of nine years—this government is a spendthrift. There will never be enough money.

Right now, they’re out looking for new sources of revenue to build transit. Good heavens, if you can’t trim a billion dollars out of the budget a year and use that money for transit—trimming a billion dollars out of that budget would be a piece of cake; $10 billion would be easier. Anyway, you can’t spend your way to prosperity, I say to the member. When you have some very difficult times, it’s time to get on with that process.

I say to the Minister of Labour—he wants to move on. He wants to pass this legislation. He wants to get it to committee. All kinds of people would like to see that happen. I say, “What’s next?” Bring us a piece of substantive legislation that talks to the debt of Ontario, that talks to the deficit of Ontario and that talks to the lack of jobs in Ontario. Bring us that substantive piece of legislation. It’s government legislation. The government, as the member from York–Simcoe said, puts bills before the House. That’s why they’re called government bills.

For heaven’s sake, bring us substantive legislation that will make a difference to the people of Ontario; that will make a difference to the debt in Ontario, the deficit in Ontario and the jobs in Ontario. Bring us that piece of legislation that we can get our teeth into. For heaven’s sake, get on with the business of governing.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Jim McDonell: I rise today, quite proud to debate this bill on the caregiver, critically ill child care and crime-related child death or disappearance leaves of absence. This being the former Bill 30 that died with prorogation, I think it speaks to some important principles that we have in our society, where we try to protect people in their most desperate times.

I think that this brings it a little bit more home to me: I had a friend that went through this past summer looking after a child, who, in her early 20s, had a relapse of cancer. She took time off work—a new job, little security—to look after her child until she passed away this past June.

The mother lost her job because of the lack of legislation like this; it’s unfortunate. The community rallied and helped raise some money to sustain her and her daughter Allie at home; through great sacrifice, tried to make some rearrangements to the house so that she could actually live there. But it was difficult: bills to pay, rents—something that we really don’t want to have to go through and we don’t like to see anybody we know or anybody in the community have to go through.

After all that sacrifice, after having to bury your family member and then go back and have to start looking for a job—makes it even that much harder in a time of your extreme need.

In our office, we tried to help, but really, in this government, there are no programs. There was so much red tape, so many conditions that were there, that really, it all timed out—and even after amassing a significant debt, there is no plan. You look at the health care costs that this person saved the government by keeping her home. This would have been a very extreme, expensive case in the hospital, but the wishes were to look after her at home.

I think, in looking at the costs of some program that would—this bill doesn’t include that, but it would allow somebody to stay at home and save the overall system money but still allow people to look after loved ones. It probably would be something we’d like to see in this bill.

Job protection in this case would have been extremely helpful, as now they’re forced to go back looking for a job, but still having to maintain your bills—rent and food—is extremely difficult. Unfortunately, as I said, in this case the mother lost her job.

We look back and this bill, in its current state, was brought up in March. I think some attention could have seen this bill go through. Certainly, former Bill 30 died—prorogation. You really wonder why that occurred. I guess it was a government desperate to stay in power—one of the tools in their box. The bill at that time died. Again, if some attention—if this government really cared, they would have pushed that bill through.

The legislation eliminates the inconsistencies between the federal labour code and the provincial labour laws, and we’re happy they listened to some of the comments we made on the previous bill and took care of those issues, because we think it’s important to reduce as much as possible the red tape and make some of the laws clearer. We saw that when we tried to go back to help this constituent of mine—very difficult, first of all, to go through. There was a lot of legislation we looked at; there’s some potential there, but really, in the end there was no help.

Speaker, it’s only right that we should be allowed to take some time off for a family member. I look forward to seeing this bill pass. But I believe there’s always a fear that legislation gets misused. When you look at a study, it shows that 46% of the people working today can’t afford to go even without one paycheque, so I don’t think there’s the opportunity that this bill would be misused. I think people will be very serious and very careful about taking time off and it will only be done in a time of extreme need.

I look at my own case. My mother is 95 years old and unable to live on her own, but we’re able to keep her on the family farm. We have a large family, many of them living within just a couple of metres or a couple of minutes away from the family farm, so we don’t have as big of an issue there. But again, that’s unusual. In today’s smaller families, that’s not the case. People must take time off to help out and generally quit their jobs because they just don’t have the numbers it would take to allow that time-sharing to happen.

I don’t think there’s a lack of compassion. It’s just a lack of today’s ability for families. Both parents are generally working and unable to take time off just to make ends meet because this province has become very expensive to live in. We see people coming in all the time, especially people in their senior years—they have a pension, it’s a fixed income, and they’re in trouble because they can’t afford their hydro bill. They can’t afford the taxes they pay. It has got so difficult to survive here.

Another thing, times have gone by—and it relates to a story of something that happened in my area back in the 1930s, just to give you an example of how things used to be. There was an elderly stranger during the Depression—no place to live, no family, no relatives—and he stopped in at my grandparents’ farm. He stayed there for over 20 years until he passed away. Maybe that wasn’t all that common, but it wasn’t that uncommon, where people of the community got together.

In this case here, it was not a relative and not even someone from the area, but in those days, people used to jump on a train and try to look for a job. Times were desperate. Just a funny end to that story: When he died, I guess in the mid-1950s, my uncle was looking for his wedding suit. He had lost some weight and asked his wife, and his wife said, “Well, sorry, that suit got buried with Alex when he passed away,” because he had no suit. Of course, that was just expected. They grabbed whatever was available. Anyway, poor Clarence lost his wedding suit.

But times are hard. When times are desperate, it’s great to see some legislation. It’s unfortunate to see that this—the member from Halton talked about what’s on the order paper. This bill has been around. Sure, it’s been around a long time. It has been debated, and I’m happy to have the opportunity to debate it.

I think that this government is trying to use this as an example of not co-operating to move legislation through, but I think that the opposite couldn’t be further from the truth. There has been co-operation with the House leaders. We could move this legislation through; we’ve been quite willing to meet. For some reason, I’m not sure what the issue was, but the government was unable to meet this summer to discuss some of this legislation and what we could move through. We have other legislation, non-partisan as well, that we’re supporting. We’re supporting this bill.

We’re supporting a number of their bills and looking to try to move this through because we really believe that there’s no time to debate bills like this.

We should be moving on to bills that would actually reduce the cost of living in this province, bills that might attract business back—manufacturing jobs. But no, there’s nothing there to actually discuss. There’s nothing we see on the order paper that would actually do something to bring Ontario back to the way it used to be.

So yes, we’re debating this bill. If we were to see something that really needed some debating and something that would attack the debt—I mean, we’re looking at a debt here that’s growing at $1.2 million an hour. We don’t see any bills that would actually cut that. I haven’t seen any discussion.

We were at the plowing match earlier this week, and I think that all three leaders talked about energy in one form—windmills came up. But the government side did not talk about the real issue with energy, and that’s the cost of energy and how it has doubled over the tenure that they’ve had in 10 years. It’s unacceptable. That alone has driven away so many of our manufacturing jobs. We just have to get a plan, and we don’t see a plan. We don’t see any bills on the order paper that even suggest that there is a plan coming.

So we look forward to new legislation, and we look forward to getting some of these bills through because they are necessary. In this case here, I think everybody in the House would have some stories about somebody that they knew who really could use this legislation.

I want to thank you, Speaker, for an opportunity to discuss this bill.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Michael Mantha: I want to thank—the comments that came from my colleague.

I do want to bring across that, affordability measures—we don’t need to always wait for bills to do those things; however, they are a good avenue to do that.

There is an opportunity, when it comes time to having those discussions, at the budget area. When we’re talking about affordability, which he alluded to in some of his comments, there’s a lot of great things that were done through home care. There’s a lot of good things that were done through car insurance affordability measures that we had proposed. They were tweaked, they were taken, they were considered, they were added. They’re not exactly what we had wanted, but they’re in there; they’re in the budget. There are different mechanisms for us to accomplish a lot of our goals, not only through bills.

Je suis content que j’ai la chance de parler de ma tante. C’est seulement à cause qu’on passe à travers des expériences personnelles qu’on a la chance de parler de comment ce projet de loi va avoir un effet sur la vie de quelqu’un.

Ma tante Muriel Mantha est décédée voilà la semaine passée. Je suis allé à ses funérailles. J’ai vu ma parenté, ce qui est tout le temps une belle affaire. C’est de valeur qu’on ne prend pas le temps de voir notre famille plus souvent pendant une année, puis on attend tout le temps soit un mariage ou des funérailles; c’est là où on se voit. Mais on devrait tout le temps prendre la chance de se donner une caresse ou bien de se donner un coup de main ou un petit bisou quand on est alentour de notre famille, parce qu’on ne sait jamais quand ils vont être pris de nous autres.

Ma tante a pogné l’Alzheimer. C’était rendu dans ses années tard et puis ça l’a vraiment affectée physiquement. C’est son gendre Gord qui a pris soin d’elle, qui a pris l’initiative de prendre soin d’elle. C’est à cause qu’il a pris soin d’elle qu’il a été aperçu par une autre agence. L’autre agence a vu l’ouvrage et le soin qu’il a pris de ma tante et ils lui ont donné une chance et lui ont offert un emploi.

Il y en a des façons qu’on peut utiliser le « bill » que ça peut être productif pour nous créer un emploi aussi. Je voulais apporter cette avenue-là et cette perspective-là dans la discussion.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments? The Minister of Community—

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Consumer Services. Thank you, Speaker.

As people here know, as my constituents in Pickering–Scarborough East know, I’m very supportive of Bill 21, Leaves to Help Families, and I don’t want to spend any more time talking about it. I think all the good points have been made.

The MPP for Halton—I don’t know if he was really talking about the bill, but he was saying, “What else could we be talking about?” Well, there’s a long list of bills that we could be talking about, everything from the Great Lakes act to the highway traffic statute act; of course, Bill 60—one of my favourites—the wireless services agreements that I introduced; that needs more debate, as does electronic personal health information protection; protection of public participation; the companies statute law amendment; waste reduction; and security for courts, electricity generating and nuclear facilities—there’s a list of things we could talk about.

We have talked about Bill 21 for over 11 hours. I encourage all members of the House to support getting on with this. Let’s get this to committee and let the committee work on it. Let’s pass Bill 21, Leaves to Help Families, for Ontarians.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: I listened intently to the member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry. He made it very clear that we’re supportive of the bill—also very clear that our democratic right here in the House is to speak. “Parliamentarian” means “parler”—that’s the French version for “to speak”—and I’m saying that they’re intending or implying that they should deny each member the right to speak. That’s simply not acceptable.

Now, if the House leaders were able to agree, under the gas inquiry going on, that there would be truth and reconciliation, then the House leaders could make some agreement. That’s why for this bill and others, even though we support it, they won’t play ball with the opposition. They won’t work together moving forward—all this compassion and collusion stuff.

This bill itself has some really positive things in it. It’s an improvement on Bill 30—the original one—but here’s the real issue: Small business creates most of the jobs in Ontario and, indeed, in Canada today. The CFIB say that in all of their reports. But let’s just apply this bill, which gives a number of days off to a person for family leave—which we agree with. It’s a feel-good bill. It’s been said by the NDP in almost every response on this bill.

What does that mean in real life? Let’s say there’s a mom and dad—possibly people that are new to Canada. Next door to me—that’s what I’m thinking of—is a small restaurant. The mother, the father, their two children and two other people work there, and if one of them is home sick, they have to get someone else to work the cash register. They have to pay somebody to work the cash register.

Here’s the issue now: Yes, the person at home who had the job as a waitress or whatever, they’ve got the minimum wage going on now and they’re not even getting the tips. So there’s no money in this to help working people—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. Questions and comments?

M me France Gélinas: I too listened to the member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry. Yes, it is a feel-good bill. We’re talking about caregiving. We know that throughout Ontario, in every part of Ontario, there are people who give of their time generously, of their skill, of their effort to look after a loved one, to look after a neighbour, to look after a friend. To talk about caregiving makes all of us feel good, but our job as legislators is really to look at what this bill is going to change in our day-to-day lives. Well, the bill will give you the opportunity to leave work to look after a loved one. But it won’t pay you to do that. You will have to take time off without pay.

The bigger problem that we face most of the time is that you’re looking after a frail, elderly relative, friend, neighbour, and you need to take them to the doctor. Usually, you would ask your employer for half a day off or a full day off, depending on how slow the waiting time is in the physician’s waiting room, but this is not in the bill. The one thing that people ask most of the time of their employers is not in the bill. In the bill, you have to take a full week off.

Well, the opportunities where you need a full week off are a lot smaller than people looking after frail, elderly people that need to take a day off so that they can take them to a doctor’s appointment. It’s a feel-good bill that comes with no money attached that will cost what the member was saying, that will cost small business something, but that won’t be that useful.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry, you have two minutes to reply.

Mr. Jim McDonell: Thank you, Speaker. I’d like to thank the members from Algoma–Manitoulin, the Minister of Consumer Affairs, the members from Durham and from Nickel Belt.

I just had the opportunity in talking with the member from Algoma–Manitoulin about what turned out in some ways to be a good-news story as the home care turned into a job, which is great news. Unfortunately, it’s so rarely the case.

I think, as the member from Durham mentioned, the problem with this bill is that there’s no money in it. In most cases, the issue is the job; that’s, of course, a big part of it. It’s trying to maintain your livelihood. Generally, there’s no money to pay the rent and pay for food. Of course, people I know that have had to go through this in many cases have run up their credit cards and run up their debt. So getting back to work is a huge issue and, of course, a huge penalty to them. Overall, it saved a lot of work.

Also, the discussion from the member from Durham when he talked about this bill: There are many bills like this that we’d like to see get through, but we would like to see some co-operation from the government. As we say, we’ve had very few House leader meetings which would actually allow this to happen. Although on one hand they talk about holding up the Legislature, they’re actually holding it up. We’d like to get some more important legislation. We’ve talked about that and our leaders talked about it many times—every day, actually—but we just don’t see it.

We don’t know if it’s time to wake this government up, and maybe it’s too late. Maybe they’re fast asleep and can’t be woken up. It’s time maybe to give them a shock, and that shock may be the needed election that would turn this province around.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mrs. Julia Munro: I’m pleased to be able to add a few comments this morning on Bill 21.

One of the things that I think comes to mind for me first in looking at Bill 21 is yet another example of what others have coined as “gesture politics.” “Gesture politics” means simply that it is something upon which there would be general agreement; no one would say, “Oh, it’s a bad thing.” But at the same time, it’s something that looks at a fairly complex problem and offers a relatively benign and simple kind of response. When you look at it a little more closely, it looks good at a distance—for some, that’s the purpose in life, by the way, Mr. Speaker, to look good at a distance.

If no one really looks at the notion, it certainly seems to be something upon which we could all agree. In the words of the Minister of Labour a few moments ago, this is a demonstration of us as a compassionate society. Again, it falls into that realm of gesture politics. Who’s going to say, “No, we’re not”? We know that these are huge issues for individual families. When you start going beyond looking from a distance at this issue, when you start looking at the details, it’s a different story.

One of the things is that with the details of this come a great many problems. One of them, for instance, is the fact that you’re looking at up to eight weeks’ unpaid leave. Well, for many, that’s the end of the conversation. Being able to pay the bills, meet the mortgage and things like that are things that take up the resources of an individual. Obviously, they’re already under huge emotional stress because of the circumstances of illness in the home, so the notion of then having this as “a gift” becomes in itself something that is beyond reach. That’s a huge practical problem for anyone.

If we were to look at this bill in terms of how it would set out a regulatory environment, there are all kinds of details that beg to be answered. There is some question of the fact that you can only ask for a week off at a time when, in fact, for many caregivers, it’s sporadic. It’s a flexibility they need, in some cases actually on a daily basis. They’re trying to juggle appointments, and they’re trying to juggle the rest of the needs of the family.

Then you get into the whole regulatory framework under which this might operate, and the kinds of things that you get into: needing recourse if you don’t quite fit into the criteria and the parameters that have been set. A lot of people would just find it, at a point when they are being overwhelmed in their own home, very difficult, then, to actually access this.

Whenever you talk about something, it’s “We’re making it available.” Well, the question always should be, “Someone is paying; who is paying?” The question, then, is that you are not paid for the eight weeks, but obviously you have to pay the bills, and you have to be able to manage. There’s the cost for the person who is going to get the benefit of the eight weeks, so there is a cost there for them—a huge cost.

But there is also a cost in terms of the employer. I think people sometimes think, “Well, those in larger workplaces would be absorbed more easily than in small.” That’s debatable. I’m not saying it’s one or the other. I think it becomes quickly obvious in a small business. The member from Durham, a few moments ago, was talking about a family restaurant, for instance, and how do you fill in that gap?

There’s no question that since most of the business in this province falls under the category of small business, if we’re going to say that it’s harder for small business, then it’s harder for most businesses in the province, because that’s who they are. For them to absorb the work of the individual and spread it around other people may or may not be possible. It may require out-of-pocket expense for the small business. Well, the same can be said in the context of larger business where somebody’s pivotal role in production is now taken away. Who is going to be there and how much is it going to cost?

So, to look at this as simply something that is all going to be done gratis—this point means that the government, in this bill, is not writing a cheque for this process, but trust me, others are. I think that it will be very difficult for some to meet the requirements of this legislation without a significant financial burden.

When we look at this bill, as I say, to me it meets the test of being gesture politics. Of course, we have said that as an opposition party we would support the government in this, but I think that it’s in the knowledge that there are going to be significant barriers, that it’s not the panacea that we would all like it to be. I think it will bear investigation, if we look at the manner in which the bill rolls out and provides opportunity in the community. It would be prudent on the part of this government, at that point, to be looking at the real cost and the measures and the ability of people to actually take advantage of the offer that is provided in this piece of legislation.

To those who think we’ve talked about it long enough, as I said a few moments ago in my two-minute response, that’s the responsibility of the government party. It’s the government that sets the agenda on our manner and on the pieces of legislation that we’re going to debate, and so it is their choice in how long is set aside. It also speaks to a different part of a political agenda, which is simply that it is our responsibility as elected members to have the freedom to be able to debate as we feel compelled or moved to do so. That is part of the process.

Since I see that the clock has moved along since I began, I would just want to give the Speaker the opportunity to rise and make a decision for us. Thank you.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): This House stands recessed until 10:30 a.m.

The House recessed from 1014 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mrs. Christine Elliott: I’m very pleased to welcome friends and family members from the Dundas Living Centre. They’re here today to observe question period proceedings. Welcome.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: It’s my great honour to welcome a very good friend of mine who is visiting Queen’s Park—a total surprise to me—in the public gallery and a constituent of mine as well, Mr. Andrew Cardozo. Andrew, welcome to Queen’s Park. It’s good to see you.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’d like to welcome Marilyn Savage, who is here today with us in the gallery. She’s here once again on behalf of her 93-year-old parents, Everett and Simone Price, who are constituents of mine in London West.

Hon. Michael Coteau: It gives me great pleasure to welcome Kathleen Garner to the Legislature. She’s a Toronto District School Board superintendent of education, who I had the pleasure of working with for eight years. I’d like to welcome her to the Ontario Legislative Assembly.

Hon. Reza Moridi: It’s my pleasure to introduce and welcome Daniel and Florian Lippold, from Germany, visiting Toronto.

Mr. Todd Smith: It’s a pleasure once again to welcome the grandmother of our page Ian Chapelle from Prince Edward–Hastings. Gloria Lanthier is back for a second day. Also, his mom, Deanna, is here as well. Welcome to the Legislature.

Ms. Soo Wong: I’m pleased to rise today to recognize some of the visitors in the east gallery: Bob Garner, who is also a former superintendent with the old Toronto Board of Education and now a citizenship judge; Kathleen Garner, who my colleague the Minister of Citizenship talked about; as well as Pat Meighan. They are parents and grandparents of page captain Sean Garner.

Hon. Teresa Piruzza: I’m proud to welcome an amazing constituent of mine, 12-year-old Sarah Lewis, and her mother, Jody, today. Sarah is the recipient of the We to Me award for her amazing work with the Street Help homeless agency. At the age of six she began collecting socks for homeless people and has since expanded her efforts to raise awareness for the drop-in centre. Sarah is a terrific example of young people improving their community, and I’m so thrilled that she’s here with us today.

Ms. Catherine Fife: It’s my pleasure to welcome my good friend, oldest and best friend, Kendal Beckett, to the House, on his first time visiting Queen’s Park today.

Mr. Harinder S. Takhar: I’m really pleased to introduce Sikander Singh Maluka. He’s currently the Minister for Education and Higher Education and Languages in the present government of India. He’s also the president of the Punjab Kabaddi Association and chairman of the All India Circle Style Kabaddi and vice-president of the Punjab Olympic Association. Joining him today are Charanjit S. Behniwal, the son of the minister; Harprit Singh; Sukhbir Sidhu, an outstanding radio host; Gurmit Singh; and also Kuldip Deepak.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome. Further introductions?

On behalf of the Minister of Economic Development, Trade and Employment, for page Sean Garner: his mother, Kathleen Garner; his father, Bob Garner; his brother Adam Garner and grandmother Pat Meighan are here in the gallery to observe and support Sean. Welcome.

MEMBERS’ PHOTO

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I just want to take a short moment to address all of our female members. By now, you will have received a letter from the Clerk inviting you for a group photograph to be taken of all currently serving women parliamentarians. The photograph will be taken on the steps outside of the legislative chambers on Tuesday, September 24, 2013—

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: What about the guys? What’s going on here?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Holy—immediately following question period on Tuesday, September 24. It’ll only take a few minutes. Would you please

schedule this time in your calendar.

Miss Monique Taylor: This is our moment. Keep quiet.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): If the men feel put on, I will arrange a photograph for you, too.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): You want the evidence eliminated? Is that what you’re talking about?

It is now time for question period.

ORAL QUESTIONS

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. We’re joined today, as my colleague and deputy leader, Christine Elliott, pointed out, by families representing the Dundas Living Centre—quiet heroes fighting for children with developmental disabilities.

We met earlier with Matthew and his folks, Martha and George Fox. Matthew has a developmental disability. He is a Special Olympian. He is an active volunteer in his community. He is a champion of the McMaster Marauders basketball team and works at McMaster University. We should all applaud Matthew’s work in the community.

The challenge is, his family has asked for help with supportive housing. We have a motion on the floor of the Legislature for a select committee in the name of Christine Elliott. Minister, will you support that motion today and move forward on this important cause?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I’m pleased to respond to the question—a leadoff question. That’s great. That shows the importance of the issue that the Leader of the Opposition and his member from Whitby–Oshawa have brought to this.

Speaker, we all have a common goal when it comes to developmental services. I was proud to support the member opposite’s motion for a select committee. She knows that. I applauded her at the time, and I continue to applaud her for that and will look forward actually to working on a select committee.

I just want to say that the member opposite and the leader know that the member opposite and I—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: I know the minister would agree with this statement: that one of the great accomplishments of the latter half of the last century was the deinstitutionalization of individuals, to see them not only as our family members, our neighbours, our co-workers—side by side as volunteers.

One of the great measures of the strength of a society is how they treat their most vulnerable, and I worry, Minister, as we stand now 13 years into the new century, that many areas are failing that test. It gives me, my colleagues and, I know, colleagues opposite, great concern when we hear about people being reinstitutionalized—those with developmental disabilities, who risk losing their friends, their co-workers; losing their jobs and being put into long-term-care homes. One of the significant reasons for the select committee to investigate and to act in the name of Ms. Elliott is to address that situation.

Minister, will we have your support to actually get that select committee going, hit the pavement and bring solutions to these families who are in desperate need?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Absolutely. The member opposite had my support when she introduced her motion. I look forward to working with the select committee.

But I want to remind the House that the member from—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Well, you’ve got to appoint the select committee first.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Yes, you do. The member from Whitby–Oshawa and I can stand in the House and be as supportive as we want, but we don’t create the select committee. We don’t put the venue in place.

Interjection: It’s the House leaders.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: It’s the House leaders that do that, so—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Oh, poppycock, and you know it.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I’m not party, by definition, to those discussions, but I have certainly—

Mr. John Yakabuski: If you want the committee, the committee will be struck.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew will come to order.

Finish, please.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I have certainly supported this select committee and have spoken to my House leader about it. So any further specific question would have to be to the Minister of Government Services and—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Let me tell you another story we heard today from the folks at the Dundas Living Centre, a story about Margot and her daughter Sheila. All of us who raise children know that there are always challenges in raising a kid, and additional challenges and burdens are placed on a family with children with developmental disabilities. We do it out of love, and we do it out of compassion. But imagine being Margot, who is legally blind and 82 years of age; her daughter Sheila is now 42. The day-to-day struggle of simply helping Sheila have a bath and get out of the tub, for an 82-year-old woman, who I believe is a widow—surely it is time to act.

Surely it’s not a time to play legislative games. Surely it’s time to move forward with a select committee to bring the best and the brightest before all parties to actually move forward and give the kind of relief to Sheila and Margot that they deserve as Ontarians. Wouldn’t you agree?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I’ll pass this to the Minister of Government Services and our government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: As a former Minister of Community and Social Services myself, I certainly share the concern of the members opposite. I’m also very proud of our government’s record; our most recent budget had $42.5 million more in funding for this sector, and as I say, as minister, I worked very closely with it.

I know the honourable member wouldn’t want to rewrite history on this. The idea of having a select committee is something that is achieved through a consensus amongst all three parties, and those of us remember that last June, there was a series of meetings between House leaders where we talked about a potential summer schedule, and there was no consensus on how to move forward. We’re now at the start of a new session, and there will be opportunities for the House leaders to meet and put this on the agenda.

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is also to the Minister of Community and Social Services. Minister, on two occasions, most recently in May of this year, this House has unanimously voted in favour of a select committee to develop a comprehensive strategy for developmental services. To date, however, the committee has not been struck, despite the fact that the motion that was adopted by this House would have had an interim report prepared by October 31 of this year.

Minister, will you commit today to striking the select committee immediately so it can begin its work right now?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Let me just also join the members opposite in welcoming our friends from Dundas. They are indeed the quiet heroes, as the Leader of the Opposition has indicated.

Listen: I support the creation of a select committee. The government House leader just indicated that there have been some discussions about that, so I support that—

Interjections.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Don’t hide behind procedure.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to make a comment to ask you just to please listen to the answer. It’s a reasonable policy question, and I think it deserves attention without the yelling. Please.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I don’t know how other members of the House spent their summer, but I invested my summer in a six-week intensive tour around the province—the entire province—talking to 173 different groups, many of them from the developmental services area. So I know the angst, and I support the member opposite in her call for a select committee. I hope the House leaders get it sorted out.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Well, supporting the call for a select committee—and calling for the committee to be established and commencing its work is quite another issue.

The minister will know from his tour that the need in this sector is urgent and growing rapidly. There are over 15,000 people in this province right now who are waiting for appropriate housing. Their parents are frightened and desperate. They have no idea what’s going to happen to their children when they’re gone.

The people who are here from the Dundas Living Centre today and thousands of parents and other groups across this province are depending on us, as legislators, to help them. Will you commit today to strike the committee immediately so it can begin its important work?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Mr. Speaker, I think I’ve answered that question a couple of times already.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, come to order. The member from Dufferin–Caledon, come to order.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: This year, we are investing, as a government, more than $1.7 billion in developmental services, and the previous budget allocated an additional $43 million to help with some of the housing issues. The increase in funding to this area since we came to government is some 68%. We understand that there are some challenges, and I will fulfill my role as best I can to continue to be an advocate. That is going to require some budgetary adjustments, which I’m fully in favour of. I hope when we get to that point where we have a budget figure, that those opposite will stand in their place and vote for it. They didn’t the last time we increased the funding—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mrs. Christine Elliott: The minister and the members of this government cannot continue to hide behind this charade of this being a House leaders’ issue. They have the ability to strike this committee, and they should do the right thing. In the end, this is a matter of priorities. We have an obligation to take care of our most vulnerable citizens.

People like Matthew and thousands of other young people across this province have the right to live in safe, clean homes. Their parents have the right to know that their child is going to be cared for and valued when they’re not here anymore. If we can’t do that basic work on behalf of the people of Ontario, then I think we all have to ask ourselves, why are we even here?

Minister, will you do the right thing and agree to strike the—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

Be seated, please. Thank you.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member for Halton, that does not help. Please, everyone, race to the top.

Minister?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I don’t disagree with anything the member from Whitby–Oshawa said. I think we do have to get on with it.

I’d like to share a quote from Chris Beesley, the CEO of Community Living Ontario, who sent this to me recently: “We have spent many years advocating for an inclusive society—a world where all people are valued and included in all aspects of community life. We actively supported the plan to close institutions”—the Leader of the Opposition referenced that—“and communities across the province celebrated when this occurred.”

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound, second time.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: “Congregate, isolated living should not be an option any longer—although we certainly understand and appreciate”—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Stormont can hide his mouth all he wants, but he’s still too loud.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: —“why some are desperately seeking” solutions “for their family members.”

Speaker, I’ll continue to work on this. I know clearly that the members opposite will, and hopefully together we can move it forward.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Acting Premier. Since the House resumed, we’ve been pushing the government hard to deliver results for Ontario families that deserve good jobs, better health care and affordability in their daily lives. Yesterday, the Premier launched yet another study into new, unfair fees. How many more conversations does this government plan to have about this topic?

Hon. Brad Duguid: Yesterday in this Legislature, we had a very good debate on public transit, and there appears to be a little bit of a gap between that side and this side. We all want public transit, Mr. Speaker. We all recognize the connection between gridlock, the economy and the need for investment, but only one party in this Legislature right now is anteing up to pay for the very important infrastructure that we need to build. So I say to the leader of the third party: We’re all for your support for public transit.

Mind you, when it gets down to the nitty-gritty, the NDP have been against just about every public transit project we’ve brought forward in the last 10 years. We’re looking forward to your support for public transit, but you’ve got to be straight with the people of Ontario and tell them how you’re going to fund it.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: What everybody recognizes—and the Liberals have made it quite clear that they think Ontario families should have to pay up to $1,000 more a year in new taxes and tolls, while at the same time they’re opening new corporate tax loopholes that will cost families billions and billions of dollars.

Is this government’s new panel about information? Or is this government’s new panel just about slapping a new paint job on an unpopular idea?

Hon. Brad Duguid: We’ve been building public transit in record amounts over the last 10 years. We have plans in the very near future to continue that build.

Looking forward into the future, we know that gridlock is a serious issue in the GTA. But right across this province, we need to keep building public transit. But you can’t build it for free. You’ve got to be visionary about this. You’ve got to get out from under the politics of this issue. Be straight with the people of Ontario. Be honest with the people of Ontario and tell them that, look, if we’re going to spend $32 billion over the next dozen or so years, we’re going to have to find a way to pay for it. That’s all we ask from the leader opposite: Be straight up with the people of Ontario—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

Final supplementary.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Trinity–Spadina.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I beg your pardon.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I think what the people want is for their government to be fair with the people of Ontario. That’s what they want to see, some fairness.

Yesterday, we learned that the Premier will be paying the chair of her taxes and tolls panel up to $90,000 for three months’ work. That means in three months she’ll make more money than the average Ontario family earns in an entire year.

People see the Liberal government asking them to pay more and more as it’s telling corporations that they get to pay less and less. And they see the lucrative fees being handed out to people who write a study about a study.

Does the Acting Premier really think that that looks fair to the people of Ontario?

Hon. Brad Duguid: To the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I know the leader of the third party knows we’re in a minority government. The only revenue tool that that party has supported so far wouldn’t build you more than about three subway stops.

We have a $50-billion major plan. The Ministry of Transportation, if you’ve been following this, and the response to the Metrolinx panel has generated several new ideas on funding models that we are pursuing aggressively—and the Ministries of Infrastructure and Transportation and Metrolinx are working, Mr. Speaker. As you know, we’ve also had responses from almost every municipality in the region, who also have advanced ideas and new ideas for partnerships, which we are also going to include in this.

This is not an advisory committee as much as an implementation committee, because right now we have two parties in opposition who don’t want to fund transit, don’t want to build it. They just want to pass motions and debate it. We’re over debating it; we’re building it.

GOVERNMENT’S AGENDA

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is to the Acting Premier as well. People are looking to this government for real results that will make their lives more affordable. Instead, they see Liberals planning study after study and having hundreds of conversations about plans to make their lives more expensive. And the only people who seem to be getting results from the Liberals are consultants and the lucky few who benefit from new corporate tax loopholes. Would the Acting Premier agree that this isn’t fair?

Hon. Brad Duguid: What’s fair is working to reduce auto insurance rates for Ontario families across this province, and we’re working on a 15% reduction. What’s fair is working to create jobs for our young people, and our youth jobs strategy is going to create 30,000 jobs over the next two years for young people across this province. What’s fair is making sure that we have home care available to our parents and our grandparents, and we’re investing to make sure that that’s the case.

What’s fair is making sure that people in the GTA and across this province can get to and from work and to and from school in a reasonable amount of time by reducing gridlock, and that’s why we’re the only party in this Legislature that’s investing in public transit, funding public transit. You ought to get on with us with that initiative. We need your support. We need you to tell us how you’re going to pay for your plan.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: People are looking to the government for results that make their lives easier, but the government seems to be determined to make life less affordable. Media reports today quote Liberal insiders saying that they would like to raise the HST but that it is “politically unsaleable.”

Will the Acting Premier confirm that hiking the unfair HST is off the table—or is the government still hoping that enough conversation will actually make it acceptable?

Hon. Brad Duguid: It’s becoming increasingly obvious as we go through challenging times, as we have to make decisions to keep building a strong economy and creating jobs, that the opposition are going to continue to—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. I’ve noticed a rather interesting trend today, it’s not always the case, but today: When the questions are put, it’s quite quiet; as soon as the answer starts, it gets extremely loud and boisterous. I think that—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And I don’t need the member from Halton editorializing while I’m speaking either—so I’m asking you all to lower the temperature.

Please answer.

Hon. Brad Duguid: Mr. Speaker, this is a time for leadership. We have a Premier that’s standing up for the people of Ontario to ensure that when we make commitments on things like public transit, we’re going to fund it. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. I would think the people of Ontario would want the party opposite and the other party opposite to be that straight up with them. If they’re going to support things like investments in public transit, if they’re going to support the initiatives we’re taking to build a strong economy, that they’ll also be straight up with the people of Ontario about how they’re going to fund them.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Over the summer we heard from a lot of people, and they made it clear that they expected us to make their lives affordable and get results for them. That’s why we’re focused on getting action for drivers, getting action for seniors waiting for home care, getting action for young people who need jobs, and fairness so people can actually start rebuilding some trust in their government again.

My question, and it’s a simple one: When is the government going to stop having endless conversations about how to make life less fair and start focusing on real results for the people who sent us here?

Hon. Brad Duguid: That’s exactly what we’re doing, getting real results for the people of Ontario. We’re in the process now of putting in place a 15% reduction in auto insurance—thank you for your support on that. We’re in the process of putting together a $295-million strategy to help 30,000 young people find jobs. We would appreciate your support on that too. We’re in the process of ensuring that we expand home care across this province so our seniors can stay in their homes longer. We’re determined to get that done, and we’re well on the way.

We’re in the process of building reliable roads and a public transit system we can be proud of that will rid us of the gridlock that we have in places like the GTA, help us create jobs and build a stronger economy. We need your support on that too. We need you as well, though, to fess up to the fact that we need revenue sources in order to be able to pay for that going forward.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mr. Douglas C. Holyday: My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Metrolinx has conducted more than 100 meetings, had 12 public round tables, had a residents’ reference panel consisting of 36 people that met for four weeks. I find it totally unnecessary that we have to now put another panel in place and that the result of this panel, of course, is going to undermine the work that Metrolinx has already done.

I’d like to point out, also, that the city of Toronto council met on this matter and resoundingly rejected these revenue tools. Now, I don’t know what more information you need. The board of trade met on this. The board of trade had public meetings. The other citizens’ group CivicAction had public meetings. The public has met until they’re blue in the face on this. It’s time for action.

I want to know: Is this just another Liberal stall?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: They are getting action. We have boring machines right now drilling all across the GTHA. We have the Viva bus service operating, we announced, and have the Pulse service bus. We have 15 major projects. We are in the middle of the biggest build-out of transit in the history of this province, and that’s action.

The member opposite had a very insightful observation yesterday, and I want to commend him on it. He pointed out to this House that when the Tories got elected, the NDP had promised $3 billion of transit investment. The NDP put no money into it, very similar to today, and the Tories did what we know they do: They filled in the holes and cancelled the project. So here we are: a party that promises billions of dollars in transit can’t deliver the money, and one that only knows how to fill in holes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Douglas C. Holyday: Minister, what I would like to know is that when you instituted the all-day kindergarten, did you have a panel to show how you were going to pay for that? Or is it that when you want something, you don’t need a panel, but when you want to stall and not do the work, then you put up a panel so that you don’t have to?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Minister.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, I—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): All right, stop the clock.

I tried one way; now I’ll do it the other way. The next person who gets carried away when somebody is trying to answer will be warned, and you know what happens after you’re warned: Next time you’re out.

Minister.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: The member opposite should know Anne Golden. You can say many things about Anne, but one thing you can’t say is she doesn’t get results. She is one of the toughest, most experienced people I know. On this panel are Iain Dobson and other people from the private sector, and Gordon Chong, who are some of the leading experts on value planning and value capture.

One of the things that we are looking at—I know the members opposite, from the volume of talking, aren’t interested in reading or listening, which is why they are not in government.

Right now, for example—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

LONG-TERM CARE

Ms. Peggy Sattler: My question is for the Acting Premier. Simone and Everett Price are a 93-year-old couple in my riding of London West who have been separated over a year by the long-term-care system after 67 years of marriage. In March, their daughter Marilyn Savage came to Queen’s Park to plead for their reunification. It wasn’t the first time this family reached out to this government for help, and it wasn’t the first time this government failed to act.

Marilyn Savage is here once again today, hoping for a better result. Will the government finally respect the principle of spousal reunification in the long-term-care act and bring her parents back together?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I’m delighted to welcome the guests who are here today, and I thank them for attending question period. I want to tell them, as our Minister of Health has said time and time again, we are investing in long-term care in record amounts. We have provided, in fact, a full transformation within long-term care.

There is still more work to do, but this is an area that we’ve put a considerable amount of attention to because we understand the challenge when a couple is separated. We all, as members in this Legislature, have seen this in our own constituency offices, where we’ve seen these circumstances. Our hearts go out to the couple who are involved in this particular case. I know that the Minister of Health is dedicated to continuing to make improvements and continuing to drive forward on a policy that we’ve brought a very, very long way in the last number of years.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I want to point out to the Acting Premier that when this question was asked six months ago, the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care stood in her place, wrung her hands and passed the buck to the local CCAC, even while acknowledging that accommodating the Prices is the right thing to do. The CCAC is only following the rules set out by the government, and it is the rules that must change.

The emotional impact of this forced separation is taking its toll on this 93-year-old couple. This isn’t the way a seven-decade love story is supposed to end in Ontario.

Will the government finally show some compassion, respect the spirit of the Long-Term Care Homes Act and take responsibility for reuniting the Prices before it is too late?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Be seated, please.

Acting Premier.

Hon. Brad Duguid: Thank you to the member for one of her first questions. That is a good question, and I really appreciate you raising it here today.

Spousal reunification is incredibly important, and that’s why, in 2008, we introduced new regulations under Ontario’s long-term-care homes legislation, to enable residents in different homes to switch places if the move is mutually desired. We gave the highest priority to residents who are seeking to be reunited with a spouse or a partner. We’ve also ensured that nobody—nobody—will be financially penalized for wanting to stay together, by ensuring that rate reduction systems are in place for couples as well.

The minister is quite aware that there’s still more work to do in this area. I know the minister is working hard to do all that we can to continue these improvements that we got started. We’re proud of how far we’ve come, but certainly I’d encourage the member to work with the local CCAC, and I’ll bring this to the attention of the minister as well.

SCHOOL SAFETY

Mrs. Laura Albanese: My question is for the Minister of Education. Parents in my riding of York South–Weston and across Ontario take pride in knowing that they are sending their children to some of the safest schools in the world.

Minister, you have spoken to this House before about several of the efforts this government has made to make our schools safe. Initiatives such as the Safe Welcome Program and our Accepting Schools Act are just a few examples.

These initiatives would not be possible without the dedication of our teachers to their students. However, in extremely rare circumstances, there have been issues around teachers’ professionalism and interaction with their students.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: In these rare cases, how do we ensure that our students are protected and safe?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you to the member for York South–Weston for her advocacy for school safety.

The member is absolutely correct. We know that the vast majority of our teachers are professionals who care about their students’ safety and well-being, along with their student achievement. We know that they put their students first.

However, last year, Justice LeSage released a report that contained 49 recommendations to modernize the Ontario College of Teachers’ investigation and discipline practices. Since the release of this report, my ministry has been working very closely with the college to address all of these recommendations. I’m pleased that the college has moved quickly and has already begun to implement some of these changes.

But in order to fully implement the report, to fully implement all of the recommendations, we need to make legislative changes as well. Yesterday, I was pleased to table the Protecting Students Act to do just that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Laura Albanese: Thank you to the minister for that initial response.

It is important—very important—for parents to know and have access to as much information as possible when it concerns their child’s safety. In the past, parents have had difficulty accessing information regarding disciplinary decisions made by the college, and often these decisions can take years to be resolved.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: How will this legislation ensure that parents have access to this important information and that decisions can be made in a timely way?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Again, the member raises a couple of absolutely excellent points around transparency and fairness, and they are addressed in the proposed legislation.

If passed, the Protecting Students Act would require the college to publish all of the college’s discipline committee decisions. Furthermore, the legislation would impose timelines to resolve cases more efficiently.

Both of these pieces of the legislation will ensure that parents have easily accessible data and that the overall efficiency of the investigation and discipline process will improve. Furthermore, this proposed legislation will strengthen the authority of the College of Teachers to take action while ensuring the process is open and transparent for everyone involved. That’s why it’s important that this legislation be passed quickly.

I hope that every member of this House will support the legislation.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is to the Minister of Transportation. The people of this province are tired of unelected people being appointed to panel after panel to make the important decisions that should be made here. Once again, we have a panel now being appointed by the minister to deal with funding of infrastructure.

We have a recommendation for the minister: Will the minister agree to appoint an all-party committee made up of equal membership of all three parties, that would be mandated to find the necessary funds to fund our infrastructure needs out of our existing $128-billion budget and the appropriate private sector investments? Will the minister agree to that kind of appointment of parliamentarians and give them a 60-day mandate to find the solution? We’re looking forward to working with the government to do exactly that.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Right now, this region alone in the greater Toronto and Hamilton area is competing with London. The national government in the UK is putting $24 billion into subways. Our national government in our economic capital is putting less than 1% total in that. That’s what we’re competing with.

Liberal governments now have invested over $15 billion; that’s currently being invested. Conservative-run governments at the other levels have put zero into the transit. We cannot continue with the horrible neglect in Ottawa of our economic capital. Toronto deserves the same support from Canada that London gets from Britain, that Paris gets from France and that New York gets from the Federal Department of Transportation, and we’re doing more than our part: 90% of the funding. Four percent—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I know you don’t want to eye me because you know I’m going to say something, so I’m just going to leave it this way. You are on the edge.

Supplementary?

Mr. Frank Klees: I’d like to readdress my question to the Minister of Transportation because we agree that the funding challenge is great. The proposal that we’re making to the minister and to the government—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of the Environment, come to order.

Mr. Frank Klees: —is that we strike an all-party committee of this Legislature, with equal membership from all three parties, that is charged with the responsibility to find the funding necessary for our infrastructure out of our existing $128-billion budget and the appropriate private sector investments, so that we don’t have to defer that decision to a panel that is simply going to tax people to death in this province. Why will the minister not accept our proposal that parliamentarians be charged with that responsibility? Give them 60 days to get the job done. Let’s get on with the work.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: We on this side of the House will be more than glad to consider that kind of option or partnership when the member opposite can find a single Conservative politician in Canada or Ontario who will write a cheque for a subway or an LRT. You can’t keep playing politics. You can’t talk subways and talk rapid transit and not invest.

Mr. Cameron, in the United Kingdom, understands that for London to compete with Toronto, Berlin and Shanghai, the British government has to make sure London is the most mobile centre. When the member opposite and when the Conservatives opposite can engage the Conservatives at city hall or in Ottawa and demonstrate where they do control government to write a cheque, I will take some comfort in that, but they should start getting on the phones. Mr. Harper’s phone number is 613-992-4211.

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

Ms. Catherine Fife: My question is for the Acting Premier. People in Kitchener–Waterloo are looking at the headlines, and they are concerned about the possibility of layoffs at BlackBerry. They are also concerned about this government’s notable silence on job creation. BlackBerry has been at the heart of Kitchener–Waterloo’s growth and its world-class technology centre. Over time, the core of innovative thinkers and engineers have created an ecosystem where small and large tech companies have helped each other grow.

When are we going to hear a plan from this government that supports Kitchener–Waterloo’s growth, whether it’s our tech sector, manufacturing, food processing or other important parts of our local economy?

Hon. Brad Duguid: For the member to see a plan that supports all of those sectors, she just has to open her eyes. We’ve been working on this for a very long period of time. We have an economic development strategy here that has created 477,300 net new jobs since the recession. That’s not bad; in fact, that’s better than most other jurisdictions anywhere in North America, and most economies anywhere.

Let me say this about the Kitchener-Waterloo area: We’re working very closely with the city there, we’re working very closely with the business community, and we’re working very closely with an organization that we have a great deal of respect for, Communitech, to ensure that any displaced workers, as a result of the challenges that they are facing, are assisted. The Tech Jobs Connex program that has been set up there has been doing an excellent job because of the expertise in that area, something that I know the member is proud of, and something that all Ontarians should be proud of, because Kitchener–Waterloo will get through this.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Catherine Fife: People in my riding are concerned about the future of their jobs. They want good jobs, not part-time, precarious poverty jobs, especially because they haven’t heard a comprehensive plan that inspires confidence in Ontario’s economy.

I look forward to a strong future for BlackBerry, and I look forward to the growing diversity of our tech sector.

When people are concerned about their jobs, they want to know that there is a plan to create good jobs. Does the government actually have a jobs plan, or are they waiting for more ideas from New Democrats? Because that certainly can be arranged.

Hon. Brad Duguid: I think the member ought to have a little more confidence in her own community. When you look at that community, there are over 1,000 high-tech companies operating there, with over 30,000 people employed. Yes, we all know that BlackBerry is going through challenging times, but we also know that that region is a hub of innovation, a hub of entrepreneurialism.

We have invested in that region. We’ve invested in Communitech, we’ve invested in the universities there, and we’re helping to drive that sense of innovation, that can-doism that exists in that community. We have a member, our House leader, who is one of the local leaders in that community. He will ensure that we’ll continue to work with the business community and we’ll continue to work with our stakeholders to ensure that Kitchener–Waterloo remains one of the strong areas of growth in our province.

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

Ms. Soo Wong: My question is for the Minister of Labour. Minister, we all know how tough it is to balance work when caring full-time for your children, your aging parents, or both. That is why I am proud to support Bill 21, the Leaves to Help Families Act, which will provide Ontarians with three different leaves so that they can be there for their families when they need to be there.

Having worked as a nurse, I feel strongly about this bill and its intent to ease stress on Ontarians. More importantly, my constituents in Scarborough–Agincourt strongly support this bill. My office continues to receive petitions each week, and I have heard from hundreds of residents what they want to see about this bill. To date, I have presented petitions on this issue to the House a total of 12 times. What is truly disappointing is the last line of the petition, which states, “That the Legislative Assembly ... pass and enact, during spring of 2013, Bill 21, the Leaves to Help Families Act.”

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: Can he please remind the House how important it is to pass this bill for all Ontarians?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to thank the member from Scarborough–Agincourt for her absolutely incredible advocacy on this matter. She is correct; she has actually submitted quite a few petitions and has been speaking quite actively on this very important matter of the family caregiver leave act, Bill 21.

This bill is about compassion. It is about building a compassionate Ontario, an Ontario where we look after each other, and it is disheartening to see that in this Legislature the debate on this bill continues to go on and on. We’re literally, I think, running into the eleventh hour of debate on this legislation. I understand that all members support the bill. However, we’re not sending the matter back to the committee for consideration.

Just two days ago, I had the opportunity to meet with a representative from the Alzheimer society, who stressed to me how important it is that this bill gets to the committee so that they and other members of the caregiver coalition are able to speak to this bill—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Soo Wong: I want to thank the minister for his remarks. I must admit, it is frustrating to hear, day after day, about this bill and the wide support across both parties opposite. Also, every Ontarian supports this bill—those I’ve spoken to. But we know that this bill has been stalled in the House time and time again, and I just want to remind the members that we have so many bills in this House. I’ll give you examples: Bill 55, the Stronger Protection for Ontario Consumers Act, was debated for 18 hours and 39 minutes; Bill 11 on air ambulances was debated for 19 hours and 14 minutes; Bill 36, the Local Food Act, has been debated for 25 hours and 35 minutes.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: Can he please explain some of the finer points of this bill that might be missed to the House?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I agree with the member from Scarborough–Agincourt that there are many other pressing and important bills in this House that have taken a lot of debate. We need to pass this bill. This bill, at its core, is about building a compassionate society. It’s about making sure that members of our families are able to look after each other if they’re not feeling well.

Speaker, through you, I’m asking all the members of the opposition today to think about the Ontarians who are struggling every day to balance their work and family responsibilities. Let’s come together. Let’s work together and call this bill for a second reading vote. Let’s send this bill to committee so that we can hear from our communities and pass this bill into law.

TENDERING PROCESS

Mr. Michael Harris: My question was for the Premier; however, I’ll ask the Minister of Labour. Minister, we’ve heard the Premier talk a lot about the need to restore fairness in Ontario’s construction industry. Well, the Fair and Open Tendering Act would do exactly that. By passing this bill, we would save Ontario taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars every year, by preserving and restoring the ability of municipalities and school boards to openly tender contracts for large infrastructure projects.

To take a stand for taxpayers, the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, the Mayors and Regional Chairs of Ontario and the Large Urban Mayors’ Caucus of Ontario have all endorsed this important legislative reform.

Minister, will you take a stand for Ontario municipalities and taxpayers by voting in favour of the Fair and Open Tendering Act today?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Before I go to the Minister of Labour, the question was put in a way that I do want to use it as a reminder, including some of the things I’ve heard from this side: We do not refer to somebody’s presence here one way or the other or try to find a way to make comment on somebody’s presence or not being here. So I’m asking all members to respect that tradition and stay on track.

Minister of Labour.

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: I want to thank the member from Kitchener–Conestoga for the question and for the work he’s been doing on this bill. He and I had the opportunity to meet as well. We’ve spoken a couple of times now. I appreciate the work he is doing and I look forward to a very meaningful debate this afternoon on this bill.

Our government believes in fair and balanced labour relations. When bargaining a collective agreement, parties are free to negotiate terms that restrict the ability of the employer to contract only with unionized contractors. Some broader public service employers have become bound to province-wide construction industry collective agreements that contain restrictions on contracting out when the employees unionize. However, if a party feels that they should not be bound to a province-wide collective agreement, they do have options. In the legislation, there is a non-construction employer exemption that exists that municipalities can apply to—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Harris: Minister, when the Premier was talking about Ontario’s construction industry last week, she said, “It only makes sense for there to be some fairness in the system....” So I hope you would agree that the province should no longer stand by and allow thousands of qualified contractors to be deprived of their right to work on public infrastructure in the community where they live, work and pay taxes.

This labour practice is wrong and you know it. Discriminating against qualified contractors on the basis of who they have chosen to associate with is patently unfair and unacceptable.

Minister, will you stop dividing Ontarians and take action to restore fairness in Ontario’s construction industry today?

Hon. Yasir Naqvi: Speaker, as I was mentioning earlier, there is a very specific non-construction employer exemption that exists under the Ontario Labour Relations Act, and if a municipality or a public entity feels that they’re not a construction employer, they can file an application with the Ontario Labour Relations Board. In fact, the member opposite must know that that exemption was actually brought in by the then Minister of Labour, Jim Flaherty, in 1998. Very clearly, those criteria and that exemption was renewed or refined again in 2000 by the Progressive Conservative Party when they were in government.

In fact, Speaker, I find it very interesting that at Hamilton city council, when a debate was taking place on this particular private members’ vote that will be debated this afternoon, the city councillor from Stoney Creek and former PC Minister of Labour, Brad Clark, refused to support the motion. He said, “What is proposed here is draconian. It would terminate all collective agreements.”

THUNDER BAY GENERATING STATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Minister of Energy. I was in Thunder Bay last week speaking with municipal leaders, energy and mining experts and the chamber of commerce. They want answers from the minister about Thunder Bay’s generating station. Liberals promised a conversion and then cancelled it, then promised it again and then cancelled it again.

People of Thunder Bay want some certainty. The Premier and the minister have had enough time to make a decision, and now the northwest deserves an answer. Will this government be converting the Thunder Bay Generating Station to natural gas?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I thank the leader of the third party for the question.

Mr. Speaker, we have been putting in a lot of time and attention, and indeed consultation, with people from Thunder Bay and the Dryden area. We had some very significant meetings at the AMO conference. We are well into finalizing details on that particular issue.

One thing we have done is acknowledge, in a recent report that just came out from the Ontario Power Authority, the tremendous requirement for new generation in the northwest. That particular report is online and I encourage the leader of the third party to read it.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Thanks for the advice. I’ve read the report, Speaker.

The people of northwestern Ontario need to know that their region has the energy necessary to grow, to create new jobs, and to take its place as an economic leader in the province. They can’t do that if there is uncertainty over how they will meet their energy needs going into the next years and decades ahead. When can the people in northwestern Ontario expect this government’s decision about the future of the Thunder Bay Generating Station gas conversion?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, I’m concerned that the leader of the third party is speaking only about Thunder Bay and that one particular generating station. There is a very significant challenge in northwestern Ontario, including north of Dryden, including Thunder Bay and including west of Thunder Bay. We are looking at all of those. We will be providing an answer which will include very significant investments in transmission and generation in that part of the province, probably within three or four weeks.

I would ask the leader to be a little more patient and also be mindful that any future generating plant in Thunder Bay will be used six hours per year.

RESEARCH AND INNOVATION

Mr. Phil McNeely: My question is for the Minister of Research and Innovation. Our government has continued to help companies in their efforts to commercialize innovative technologies in Ontario because it leads to more high-skilled jobs and better opportunities for economic growth. Providing the support needed to companies undertaking innovative technologies develops the opportunities to create leading-edge, globally competitive companies.

By supporting great ideas, innovative thinking and new-tech companies today, we will help create the products, services and jobs that will drive Ontario’s economy in the future. Many of these technologies need to be proven on a small scale before they can be implemented in larger-scale real-world applications.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: What is this government doing to support these companies with promising and innovative technologies?

Hon. Reza Moridi: I would like to thank the member from Ottawa–Orléans for that question. Our government recognizes the importance of providing financial assistance to innovative companies in order to thrive not only in Ontario but in the global market.

One of our initiatives is the Innovation Demonstration Fund. This fund provides assistance to companies looking to commercialize new green technologies. To date, the Innovation Demonstration Fund has assisted 41 projects, with a total commitment of $96.1 million, and helped create over 4,100 jobs.

Our government also recognizes the importance of investments in early-stage innovative companies. Another initiative of our government is the Investment Accelerator Fund. This fund provides assistance to companies who are in the early stage. To date, the Investment Accelerator Fund program has made investments in 68 promising Ontario companies and invested $35 million.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Phil McNeely: I’m pleased to hear that our government is making investments that will help support early-stage innovative companies. With high-growth companies creating 50% to 60% of the net new jobs in Ontario, access to capital is critical for start-up and early-stage innovative companies.

Our government’s budget reiterated its commitment to support early-stage companies through our $50-million investment in the Ontario Venture Capital Fund II. This fund, with the expertise to accelerate commercialization of new products, services and ideas, will help foster the right climate to attract investment, support innovation, create jobs and grow Ontario’s economy.

Mr. Speaker, back to the Minister of Research and Innovation: What else has the government done to support early-stage innovative enterprises?

Hon. Reza Moridi: I want to thank, again, the member from Ottawa–Orléans for that question.

Access to risk capital is the key, and critical to start-up and early-stage companies. That’s why our government, in 2008, has created the Ontario Venture Capital Fund, with an investment of $95