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June 7, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Jun-07 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Monday 7 June 2004 Lundi 7 juin 2004

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

DISTRICT OF MUSKOKA

ANNIVERSARY OF D-DAY

RONALD REAGAN

OHIP OFFICE

RELAY FOR LIFE

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

TEACHERS' PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

REQUEST TO INTEGRITY COMMISSIONER

VISITORS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

REPRESENTATION AMENDMENT ACT

(NORTHERN ONTARIO), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LA REPRÉSENTATION ÉLECTORALE

(NORD DE L'ONTARIO)

PROTECTION OF MINORS

FROM SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

GOODS AND SERVICES ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LA PROTECTION DES MINEURS

CONTRE LES BIENS ET SERVICES

SEXUELLEMENT EXPLICITES

DENTAL HYGIENE

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES HYGIÉNISTES DENTAIRES

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

DEFERRED VOTES

COMMITMENT TO THE FUTURE

OF MEDICARE ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR L'ENGAGEMENT

D'ASSURER L'AVENIR

DE L'ASSURANCE-SANTÉ

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO BUDGET

HEALTH PREMIUMS

TAXATION

DRIVER LICENCES

HEALTH SERVICES

ONTARIO ECONOMY

WEST NILE VIRUS

HEALTH PREMIUMS

CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES

PROPERTY TAXATION

HEALTH SERVICES

NORTHERN ONTARIO DEVELOPMENT

HEALTH PREMIUMS

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

BOCCE BALL

PETITIONS

HEALTH CARE REFORM

PENSION PLANS

ALEXANDER GRAHAM BELL PARKWAY

LANDFILL

SNOWMOBILING

VISITOR

DISTRICT OF MUSKOKA

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

PROPERTY TAXATION

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

DRIVER EXAMINATIONS FOR SENIORS

RETIREMENT HOMES

LANDFILL

ORDERS OF THE DAY

2004 ONTARIO BUDGET

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

DISTRICT OF MUSKOKA

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I rise today to bring attention to the recent decision, hidden on page 96 of the budget, to change the

definition of "northern Ontario" to exclude the district of Muskoka. I find it surprising that there was no mention of this in the budget speech, no consultation with any of the municipalities

beforehand and no justification. Thousands from my beautiful riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka have signed petitions expressing their anger. This decision will have a massive impact on their lives.

Being excluded from the north will mean cutting the northern medical specialist and family physician incentive program, the health recruitment tour travel

subsidy and the locum program for specialists. For the town of Bala, which has been trying to recruit a physician for two years, this will mean no longer being eligible for incentive grants to help

them attract a doctor to their community. Meanwhile, the South Muskoka Memorial Hospital estimates that the loss of the northern Ontario heritage fund grants will cost them between $500,000 to

$600,000 a year. Algonquin Health Services in Huntsville will also see substantial increases in costs and increased difficulty in recruiting doctors. All this comes from a government that says they

believe in improving access to health care.

In Muskoka, the average family income is well below that of Sudbury. It also has a growing aging population, which naturally increases the stress on the local

health system.

This is partisan and mean-spirited. I urge the government to immediately rethink this decision.

ANNIVERSARY OF D-DAY

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): Sixty years ago, a heroic band of brothers landed on Juno Beach to join the invasion of

Normandy. These Canadians, most still in their teens, were conveyers of hope and ambassadors of freedom. They helped set the table for an end of tyranny and oppression in Europe.

Yesterday, a band of a different sort walked on Juno Beach. That band was the Burlington Teen Tour Band, Canadian ambassadors extraordinaire. Led by their

conductor, Sir William Hughes -- "Sir Bill," as he is affectionately known -- the band participated in the Juno Beach ceremony in Normandy, France, commemorating the 60th anniversary of D-Day and

the battle of Normandy.

The teen tour band was founded in 1947, and has represented Canada in ceremonies around the world. Known as Canada's musical ambassadors, the band has won

countless awards. The sons of two of my constituency staff, namely Jim Curtis and Nick Quaglia, were with the band. Together with their talented colleagues, they played an important role in this

historic commemoration.

Sixty years to the day, we once again have Canadian youth ambassadors making us proud on the shores of Normandy. Judging from the e-mails sent back home, it was

an important learning experience that these young men and women will never forget.

I know members of this democratically elected Legislative Assembly will want to join me in thanking the incredible young men and women of the Burlington Teen

Tour Band for representing us at the official ceremony in Normandy. I'm proud of each and every one of these young people. They are indeed a national treasure.

RONALD REAGAN

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): "Twenty summers ago, another American president came to Normandy to pay tribute to the men of D-Day."

These were the words of President George W. Bush as he paid tribute to Ronald Reagan during ceremonies in France marking the 60th anniversary of D-Day.

Known as the Great Communicator, former President Reagan, who died over the weekend, is remembered for his sense of humour and his ability to fight battles

without creating enemies. He will also be remembered for his deep-rooted conservatism that revolutionized America in the 1980s and ushered in the end of the Cold War, as well as for his sunny

optimism and fierce opposition to taxes, big government and communism.

Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher says "Ronald Reagan had a higher claim than any other leader to have won the Cold War for liberty, and he did it

without a shot being fired." Reagan's long-time nemesis, former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, had this to say: "He has already entered history as a man who was instrumental in bringing about the

end of the Cold War."

Ronald Reagan will be remembered as a great American. His funeral will be held this coming Friday. Former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney will be a pallbearer.

OHIP OFFICE

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I have a message for the citizens of Toronto. I want to alert them to a petition that I'm doing so that

if they're interested in it, they can sign on to it. It would read something more or less to this effect:

"Yes, Rosario Marchese, I agree with you that the taxpayers in downtown Toronto deserve ready access to an OHIP office.

"Whereas more than 800,000 people live in the downtown core," George;

"Whereas the only OHIP offices in the entire GTA that service non-homeless clients are at 47 Sheppard Avenue East; 4400 Dufferin Street; 2063 Lawrence Avenue

East; or 3300 Bloor Street West; and

"Whereas OHIP is an essential service to all the people of this province; and

"Whereas taking more than one day off work to stand in long lineups at OHIP offices located in distant parts of the city is detrimental to a worker's

productivity, and the economy as a whole;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"To immediately locate a suitable building for an OHIP office in the downtown core, and have the office ready to receive clients by the end of 2004."

I say to the citizens of Toronto that we deserve an office that serves our needs. It is an essential service. The Ministry of Health has an obligation to ensure

that the service is provided. If you feel that we need an OHIP office downtown, please call my community office at 603-9664 or, better still, tell the Minister of Health, George Smitherman, that we

need an office in downtown Toronto.

RELAY FOR LIFE

Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): This past weekend, a wonderful event took place in Maxville, in the beautiful riding of

Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, in which I was extremely proud to participate, along with Don Boudria, our federal member of Parliament. The Canadian Cancer Society held its fourth annual Relay for

Life, a fundraising event for cancer research. The walk, joined by 1,800 participants, took place from 7 pm Friday evening until 7 am Saturday morning. This year, there were also 315 survivors of

cancer who participated in this significant event.

Furthermore, I am proud to share with my colleagues that participants in this year's Maxville walk raised $443,000. What a success. The small village of Alfred

raised over $15,000, a great accomplishment. Since its beginning four years ago, the Relay for Life has raised over $1.5 million for cancer research.

In light of our recent budget, I would like to remind my colleagues that reducing wait times for cancer treatment is a key part of our government's reform of the

Ontario health care system. To participate in this celebration of survival and tribute to the lives of loved ones who have been touched by cancer was truly rewarding.

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): Mr Speaker, the results are in. In a recent SES survey in Osprey Media this past weekend, 9% of those surveyed

supported what Dalton McGuinty is doing here in the province of Ontario -- 9% -- a pretty abysmal rating after only seven months in office. I think Brian Mulroney, the one those across the floor

love to hate, even at his lowest, when he was leaving office, had a 15% rating. I'll ask my colleagues in the NDP, but I don't think Bob Rae ever came anywhere close to 9%.

Let's put it into further perspective. According to the FarShores Para News in October 2001, more people believe in aliens than think Dalton McGuinty is doing a

good job. There's some solace, though: 6.3%, close to McGuinty's rating, said they had seen a ghost, so you're beating the ghost numbers. And according to the Comedy Network/Ipsos-Reid poll of

2001, 10% of Canadians think the moon landing was faked. I'm not sure about the Elvis rating; that's a tough one to get a judgment on. But that puts into perspective people's opinions of Dalton

McGuinty and his leadership, with good reason: 32 major broken promises, tax hikes and multi-year deficits that make Bob Rae look like a fiscal conservative, and a delisting of important health

care services.

The members across the floor have a chance to stand up tomorrow, Tuesday, and send a message to their boss and to those behind him by supporting Mrs Witmer's

resolution to support health care services.

TEACHERS' PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT

Mr Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): To the great relief of the thousands of teachers in Ontario, the Ministry of Education has announced plans to

eliminate the PLP program. Most people outside the education world would shake their heads and ask themselves, "What's PLP?" I ask them to imagine that in order to continue in their job or

profession they were required to remain on perpetual probation. That's what PLP was.

The truly silly thing about PLP is that it did not recognize any prior professional development. For example, if you had a master's degree in a specific field,

PLP required that you continue to take courses that you had either long ago or just recently mastered. As another example, marking EQAO tests counted as a recertification credit. Surely this job

cannot be considered professional development.

There is no requirement like PLP among other professional bodies such as doctors, lawyers or accountants. And of course, for teachers in any private school there

is no requirement to recertify or, often, to certify in the first place.

PLP was badly thought out from its very inception. As bad policy, it was patched and modified. No fixing can ever make it work. It needs to be scrapped, and it

will be scrapped.

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

Mr Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): On behalf of my constituents of Mississauga East, I am here to praise our government's decision to commit

$19.9 million in our budget toward the protection of women and children from domestic violence. Our continued dedication to supporting those who are in need is a defining line between our

government and the previous government. This pledge was further supported by an announcement last week by the Attorney General when he declared that $1.6 million from the victim's justice fund be

distributed to 18 community-based agencies across our great province.

One of those organizations receiving funding was Catholic Family Services of Peel-Dufferin. With our government's commitment of $39,140 to Catholic Family

Services, they will be able to provide more spaces in their 12-step treatment process for victims of sexual violence and their children. As much as their title would suggest that it is a Catholic

entity, they have opened their arms to the community at large, and their dedication to help anyone in need of their support should be applauded.

We must also note that domestic violence is sometimes overlooked or mistakenly assessed by those in a position to help. In Mr Sorbara's budget, he swore we would

increase funding for the training of police officers, crown attorneys and others working in the justice system to better assess risk in abusive situations. As much as campaigning to end domestic

violence is a useful tool, guiding those in a position to help will ultimately aid those who have been subject to the crime.

Again, I'd like to thank our government on behalf of all those in Mississauga East who will see a positive effect from the funding directed to Catholic Family

Services of Peel-Dufferin.

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Ms Jennifer F. Mossop (Stoney Creek): I just want to comment on an open house that I had at my constituency office on Friday. I want to thank

all the constituents who came to visit me. Of course, I had a very good opportunity to discuss with them many of the changes that have taken place in the government in the province.

It was interesting, because we talked quite a bit about the budget, as you can well imagine. Many of my constituents said to me, "I can't believe how quickly the

people of Ontario have forgotten what an incredible state of disrepair this province was left in in September and the uncertainty that existed surrounding our health care services." They couldn't

understand how people forgot that they couldn't rely on an ambulance arriving when they called one, or that when they got to the emergency room they might be turned away. They couldn't rely on how

quickly they might get the service they needed from their doctor -- if the doctor said, "You need this treatment," how long they might have to wait for that. My constituents said to me, "I can't

believe how quickly people have forgotten."

What we have done in our budget is ensured that hospital funding is spent on improving patient care. We're providing our clinics with more resources to perform

an additional 9,000 cataract surgeries. We're delivering 2,300 more hip and knee total joint replacements annually. We're performing 425 more organ transplants a year. Ontarians wanted shorter

waiting times, and that's what we're going to give them. They wanted more comprehensive home care, and we're delivering on that, and many other issues in health.

Hon Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Children and Youth Services, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'd

like to take this opportunity to congratulate CHTV on their 50th anniversary. It was 50 years ago tonight that CHTV went on air and into our homes for the first time. Throughout its 50-year

history, CH television has pioneered many television firsts --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. That wasn't a point of order. It would have been better done as a minister's statement, I would say.

REQUEST TO INTEGRITY COMMISSIONER

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): I beg to inform the House that I have laid upon the table a request by the member for Leeds-Grenville to the

Honourable Coulter A. Osborne, Integrity Commissioner, for an opinion pursuant to subsection 30(1) of the Members' Integrity Act, 1994, on whether the Honourable Gregory Sorbara, Minister of

Finance, in his responsibility for the budget and budget secrecy, has contravened the act or Ontario parliamentary convention.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): We have with us in the Speaker's gallery the public accounts committee for the National Assembly of Kenya.

Please join me in welcoming our guests.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Mrs Linda Jeffrey (Brampton Centre): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly and move its

adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Ms Lisa Freedman): Your committee begs to report the following bill, as amended: Bill 49,

An Act to prevent the disposal of

waste at the Adams Mine site and to amend the Environmental Protection Act in respect of the disposal of waste in lakes / Loi visant à empêcher l'élimination de déchets à

la mine Adams et à modifier la

Loi sur la protection de l'environnement en ce qui concerne l'élimination de déchets dans des lacs.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed. The bill is therefore ordered for third reading.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

REPRESENTATION AMENDMENT ACT

(NORTHERN ONTARIO), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LA REPRÉSENTATION ÉLECTORALE

(NORD DE L'ONTARIO)

Mr Bisson moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 89,

An Act to amend the Representation Act, 1996 respecting the number of electoral districts in Northern Ontario / Projet de loi 89, Loi modifiant la

Loi de 1996 sur la représentation électorale en ce qui concerne le nombre de circonscriptions électorales du Nord de l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): You would know that the government, in the last election and, since then, during the throne speech,

promised that they would be introducing legislation in this House to make sure that northern Ontario, through the new redistribution, does not lose the number of seats it currently has. As you

know, the federal government, through its redistribution, has diminished by one the number of seats in northern Ontario, and this particular legislation deals with that fact so that we're able to

maintain the seats we have now.

C'est pour assurer que, à la fin de la journée, le gouvernement garde ses engagements qu'il a faits envers sa promesse, durant l'élection et

durant le discours du trône, qui dit qu'on ne va pas réduire le nombre de sièges dans le nord de l'Ontario dans les années à venir. Le gouvernement avait promis ça.

Puis je vais être très « supportive » du gouvernement en l'aidant à garder cette promesse. C'est pour ça que j'ai introduit ce projet de loi.

Je regarde à ce point-ci pour avoir le consentement unanime pour passer à la deuxième lecture.

PROTECTION OF MINORS

FROM SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

GOODS AND SERVICES ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LA PROTECTION DES MINEURS

CONTRE LES BIENS ET SERVICES

SEXUELLEMENT EXPLICITES

Mr O'Toole moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 90,

An Act to protect minors from exposure to sexually explicit goods and services / Projet de loi 90, Loi visant à protéger les mineurs

contre les biens et services sexuellement explicites.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I'm reintroducing this bill on behalf of Mr Wood, who was a former member from, I believe, London South. The bill

prohibits a person from selling, offering to sell or distributing sexually explicit goods or services specifically to minors. All of us in the House, I'm sure, would like to protect minors from

unnecessary exposure to sexually explicit material. I ask for unanimous support for this bill when it comes to the House for second and third reading.

M. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-Baie James): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: Très clairement, quand j'ai introduit le projet de loi il y a une

couple de minutes, j'avais demandé le consentement unanime.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): You asked for unanimous consent in your bill?

M. Bisson: J'ai demandé la deuxième et la troisième lecture et j'ai demandé le consentement unanime. Ce n'est pas

compliqué.

The Speaker: The member for Timmins-James Bay asked for unanimous consent for his bill in second and third reading. Do we have unanimous

consent? I heard a no.

DENTAL HYGIENE

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES HYGIÉNISTES DENTAIRES

Mrs Cansfield moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 91,

An Act to amend the Dental Hygiene Act, 1991 / Projet de loi 91, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1991 sur les hygiénistes dentaires.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mrs Donna H. Cansfield (Etobicoke Centre): Currently under subsection 5(1) of the Dental Hygiene Act, there is a prohibition against dental

hygienists from carrying out the authorized acts of scaling teeth, actually cleaning teeth, including procedures around the same issue unless they are ordered by a member of the Royal College of

Dental Surgeons of Ontario. The purpose of this bill is to permit dental hygienists to perform these procedures without such an order.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I seek unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice regarding

private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have consent? We do.

Hon Mr Duncan: I move that pursuant to standing order 9(c)(ii), the House shall meet from 6:45 pm to 12 midnight on Monday, June 7, 2004, for

the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion, say "aye."

All those against, say "nay."

I think the ayes have it.

Call in the members. There will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1359 to 1404.

The Speaker: All those in favour, please rise.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Arthurs, Wayne

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brown, Michael A.

Brownell, Jim

Cansfield, Donna H.

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Colle, Mike

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hardeman, Ernie

Hoy, Pat

Hudak, Tim

Jeffrey, Linda

Kennedy, Gerard

Klees, Frank

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Martiniuk, Gerry

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

O'Toole, John

Orazietti, David

Parsons, Ernie

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Racco, Mario G.

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Sorbara, Greg

Takhar, Harinder S.

Tascona, Joseph N.

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Wilkinson, John

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those against, please rise and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Bisson, Gilles

Churley, Marilyn

Hampton, Howard

Horwath, Andrea

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Prue, Michael

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 74; the nays are 8.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): Mr Speaker, on a point of order: It would seem that I owe the government House leader a bit of an

apology. The memo actually had come to my desk and unfortunately was underneath all my other documents.

Interjection: Resign.

Mr Bisson: Resign where, guys?

I seek unanimous consent to move a motion regarding private members' public business.

The Speaker: Is there unanimous consent? Agreed.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I seek unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice regarding private members' public

business. I move that, notwithstanding standing order 96(d), the following change be made to the ballot list of private members' public business: Mr Klees and Mr Runciman exchange places in order

of precedence such that Mr Runciman assumes ballot item number 33 and Mr Klees assumes ballot item number 30.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

DEFERRED VOTES

COMMITMENT TO THE FUTURE

OF MEDICARE ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR L'ENGAGEMENT

D'ASSURER L'AVENIR

DE L'ASSURANCE-SANTÉ

Deferred vote on the motion for third reading of Bill 8,

An Act to establish the Ontario Health Quality Council, to enact new legislation concerning health

créant le Conseil ontarien de la qualité des services de santé, édictant une nouvelle loi relative à l'accessibilité aux services de santé et abrogeant la

Loi sur

l'accessibilité aux services de santé, prévoyant l'imputabilité du secteur des services de santé et modifiant la

Loi sur l'assurance-santé.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1408 to 1413.

The Speaker: All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brown, Michael A.

Brownell, Jim

Cansfield, Donna H.

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Colle, Mike

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hoy, Pat

Jeffrey, Linda

Kennedy, Gerard

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McGuinty, Dalton

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Orazietti, David

Parsons, Ernie

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Racco, Mario G.

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Sorbara, Greg

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Wilkinson, John

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those opposed, please rise and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Arnott, Ted

Barrett, Toby

Bisson, Gilles

Churley, Marilyn

Dunlop, Garfield

Hampton, Howard

Hardeman, Ernie

Horwath, Andrea

Hudak, Tim

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Martiniuk, Gerry

Miller, Norm

O'Toole, John

Prue, Michael

Runciman, Robert W.

Scott, Laurie

Tascona, Joseph N.

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 62; the nays are 22.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Be it resolved that the bill be now passed and entitled as in the motion.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO BUDGET

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): My question is to the Premier. On May 31, it was reported by Caroline Mallan that you gave the following quote,

and I would expect that you could confirm that you said this: "I gave the Prime Minister a heads up, no doubt about it, with respect to the challenge that the budget would present and the fact that

it would contain a health care premium." Can you confirm for us that you did say those words?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Yes, I did.

Mr Klees: Given the Premier's confirmation of those words, we do have a problem, and the problem is this: Today the Canadian Press reports

that Prime Minister Martin, in an interview with a Thunder Bay TV station, said that he was caught off guard by Ontario's budget. He went on to say that Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty gave him no

indication there would be tax hikes, other than a comment that the budget would be a tough one. Between the two of you, the Premier of Ontario or the Prime Minister of Canada, who is lying?

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): The member from Oak Ridges, I would ask you to withdraw that unparliamentary word.

Mr Klees: I withdraw that. I will rephrase the question.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Premier?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I'm sure the member opposite and the leader of the third party would be anxious to learn that I'm told that the media report

the member is quoting from does not accurately reflect the Prime Minister's comments. The Prime Minister's staff --

Interjections.

Hon Mr McGuinty: -- I know that the member will be genuinely interested in this -- are presently in contact with the reporter to get the story

corrected and ensure the report is accurate.

Mr Klees: We will look forward to seeing the spin on this one, because the Prime Minister, I suggest, is caught in a Catch-22: Either he

maintains his own integrity or he tries to cover up for someone who hasn't kept a promise and, quite frankly, who only 9% of people in this province now believe.

I'd like to remind the Premier that no other Premier -- in fact, no other leader -- in the history of this country has lost the confidence of the people so

quickly. Some 100,000 people have signed the CTF's petition demanding a referendum. I have in my office literally thousands of names of people who have signed a petition demanding a referendum, and

that this Premier, who had no mandate to increase taxes for the people of Ontario, at least keep the law of this province and allow the people of Ontario to have their say so that they can let him

know how they feel about this tax increase. Will the Premier --

The Speaker: Thank you. Premier?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I want to remind the member again that we engaged Ontarians in the most extensive pre-budget consultation exercise ever. I

will also remind the member that when he voted to break the Taxpayer Protection Act, he did not first obtain the consent of the people of Ontario by means of a referendum. So he has no standing,

moral or otherwise, to preach to us when it comes to talking about what's going to happen with respect to the Taxpayer Protection Act.

We've made some difficult decisions and what we intend to do, as the member well knows, is reduce waiting times in health care and improve student achievement

when it comes to public education.

HEALTH PREMIUMS

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): My question is also to the Premier. Premier, when you decided to break your promise to the people

of Ontario and introduce the punishing health tax, were you aware that many school boards in this province had clauses in their contracts with staff that would require the boards to pay for this

new health care tax?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I'll tell you what I remain painfully aware of, and that is that when it

comes to quarterly financial updates which are released by the Ministry of Finance, there was one released by the previous government on August 12, 2003, and that was three weeks before the very

election date. It's important to understand that it was released subsequent to SARS, subsequent to the blackout and subsequent to the federal budget. Our party and the people of Ontario looked at

this document released by the then government, which specifically said that the budget was balanced.

What we intend to do is ensure that kind of misinformation will never again be released to the people of Ontario by introducing, as we have, the Fiscal

Transparency and Accountability Act to make sure that cannot be perpetrated on the people of Ontario again.

Mrs Witmer: I would have to agree with John Weatherup's comments today when he said, "I don't think the government knew what it was doing," in

reference to the introduction of the new health care tax.

My question was pretty simple, Premier. When you decided to break your promise to the people of Ontario and introduce the punishing health tax, were you aware

that many school boards throughout the province had clauses in their contracts with staff that would require the board to pay for the health care tax, yes or no?

Hon Mr McGuinty: What we were aware of was that because of the absolutely untenable financial position the previous government had left the

people of Ontario in, we were going to have to make difficult decisions. We were very, very much aware of that.

We also knew we weren't going to run away from this particular challenge. So we've called upon the people of Ontario to make an investment in their health care

system, which was not an easy thing to do, but we maintain it was an absolutely essential request for us to make to the people of Ontario. What we intend to do, of course, with that premium is to

invest generously in our health care system.

Our Minister of Health, who is now not with us because he's not a well man -- he has departed from this Legislature because he's been working too hard. He has

been working exceptionally hard to ensure that we get wait times down when it comes to cardiac care, cancer care, cataracts and hip replacements. Those are the objectives that we have set for

ourselves when it comes to the use of these precious health care premium dollars.

Mrs Witmer: This is embarrassing. No wonder the approval rating is only at 9%. It's obvious that John Weatherup was right: This Premier didn't

know what he was doing when he introduced the health tax.

I would ask the Premier for the third time: Did you know, when you broke your promise to the people of Ontario and introduced the punishing health tax, that

many school boards throughout the province had clauses in their contracts with staff that would require the board to pay for the health care tax? Yes or no?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Let me address the matter very specifically. These premiums are different from previous premiums introduced by previous

governments of Ontario because they are tied to income, meaning they're going to be collected under the Income Tax Act and deducted from paycheques accordingly.

TAXATION

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Last week, the finance minister accused New Democrats of distorting

the truth about your unfair budget. If anyone is guilty of distorting the truth, it is you and your finance minister, who promised working families in Ontario that you wouldn't increase their

taxes, and now you've done just that.

Here are the facts once again. Under your budget, a single-parent mom with an income of $30,000 a year will be forced to pay a shocking 24% increase in her

income taxes, while the income tax of an individual who has an income of $200,000 a year will only increase by 3%. Meanwhile, your budget will give those poor banks and those impoverished insurance

companies a $1-billion tax cut.

Premier, I call it a gross distortion of fairness and justice to attack the middle-class families of Ontario while you give your friends, the banks and

insurance companies, a $1-billion tax cut. What do you call it?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): To the Minister of Finance.

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): The accusations that I made last week continue to stand. Let me tell my friend the leader of the New

Democratic Party what the actual facts of the circumstances are in this province. We have the most progressive and lowest tax rates for people making anywhere from $10,000 to $55,000 in this

province, and with the Ontario health care premium, our tax rates continue to be the most progressive.

But I want to tell him one more thing. In his example, he uses the figure of 24%. Under the example that he uses, the average tax rate of that individual rises

from --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. Member from Durham, I would like to hear the Minister of Finance. Minister?

Hon Mr Sorbara: In the example that my friend uses, the average tax rate for a single mother earning $30,000 will be about 9.9%. By comparison

-- and I know you want me to hurry -- an individual making $200,000 in this province pays an average tax rate of about 44%. I consider that to be a very progressive system.

Mr Hampton: In fact, the McGuinty government thinks it's so fair that they're going to increase the taxes on that single-parent mom by 24%. Is

that your definition of fairness?

Another fact: A couple, where his taxable income is $50,000 a year and her taxable income is $50,000 a year, is going to pay an additional $1,200 under your

health tax. Somebody who has an income of half a million dollars a year is only going to pay $900. And, oh yes, the insurance companies' profits increased by 500% over last year, and the banks have

a $3.1-billion profit for the first quarter of this year, and you're going to give them a $1-billion tax reduction.

I put it to you and the Premier again: This is a gross distortion of fairness and justice in the tax system. It is grossly unfair to give banks and insurance

companies a billion-dollar tax reduction while you say to someone else, "You have to pay $1,200." What's your explanation?

Hon Mr Sorbara: Let's get to the gross distortions put out by that member and that party. Let's just talk about the fact that in the budget

that we presented in this House, the reduction in capital tax will mean this government forgoing about $900,000. That is one half of what my friend the leader of the New Democratic Party will be

receiving, $1.8 million to that band of eight members, as a result of the by-election in Hamilton East.

What is much more important about our budget is the fact that we will have some 9,000 additional cardiac surgeries, some 36,000 additional heart procedures,

and free vaccinations for every Ontario child for pneumonia, for meningitis and for chickenpox. This budget --

The Speaker: Thank you.

Mr Hampton: I'm happy to hear more promises from Liberals. I'm always happy to hear promises from Liberals because everybody in Ontario, and

now across Canada, knows that you never fulfill your promises.

But I want to talk again about the capital tax, those poor impoverished banks and those insurance companies that racked up profits of over $2 billion last year

and have increased those profits by 500% this year. You've now admitted that you, over the course of this budget and through this budget, are going to give them a billion-dollar tax reduction every

year over the next four years. While working families are being hit to the tune of $2 billion a year through your unfair and regressive tax, the banks and insurance companies will be paying

less and less. I put it to you, that is a grossly unfair, grossly unjust tax system, going after working families for $1,200 a year while you give the banks and insurance companies what amounts to

a billion-dollar tax reduction. How do you justify that?

Hon Mr Sorbara: I will ultimately invite my friend from Kenora-Rainy River to apologize to this Parliament for the distortions that he has

presented in that question, but I'll tell you something that is absolute fact: In the fall, that member and that party voted against Bill 2. Bill 2 rolled back all of the corporate income tax cuts

that the previous government had put in place. That bill eliminated the seniors' tax credit for high-income senior earners. That bill scrapped the private school tax credit. That's a bill that was

supported by people right across Ontario. One small group voted against it: that caucus and that opposition. I tell my friend from Kenora-Rainy River, one day he will have an opportunity to

actually read the budget and find out what is in it. Then his questions in this Parliament can be taken somewhat more seriously.

The Speaker: New question.

Mr Hampton: I have the budget. Here is what it says: Somebody who has an income of $30,000 a year will pay an extra $300 in income tax. That's

a 24% tax increase. For a family where he is a teacher and has a taxable income of $50,000, and she is a nurse and has a taxable income of $50,000, they're going to pay an additional $1,200 a year

while the banks and the insurance companies pay nothing extra. In fact, they get a billion-dollar tax reduction from Dalton McGuinty and Greg Sorbara.

But I want to ask you about a couple who are struggling on that $30,000-a-year income -- he has $30,000 and she has $30,000. They've just had their hydro cut

off because they can't afford to pay the hydro bill. Now you're going to take an additional $600 a year out of their pocket. Can you tell me, when they're already having trouble paying their hydro

bill, how they are going to be able to get light, power, keep their food and have hot water when are you going to take another $600 out of their pocket?

Hon Mr Sorbara: This from a member of a party that, when they were in power, raised taxes on people earning $20,000 way back then -- I just

want to make sure I get this one right -- by $120. Using his mathematics, that would probably be a 50% or 60% tax increase.

This is the party that jacked up hydro rates, my friend the Minister of Energy will remind me, 43%. This is the party that said, "Elect us and we'll bring you

public auto insurance." Then they got elected and said, "Well, no, we're not going to do that." This is the party that campaigned on the sacredness of collective agreements, got elected, and ripped

up every single one in the province. This is a party which during this federal campaign can't figure out what they want to say to the people of Ontario. They're ignored here and they're ignored

across the nation.

Mr Hampton: I get the impression that neither the Premier nor the Minister of Finance want to answer this question that comes from two real

people. He has an income of $30,000 a year; she has an income of $30,000 a year. They have two kids. Her name is Kurin Roller. His name is Noel Bouvier. They live near Kenora. They believed you

when you said you were going to cap hydro rates. Since then, their hydro bill has gone out of sight. It's not their fault that they have electric heat. They can't pay their hydro bill, so Hydro

came and cut off their electricity. They have no water. They have no sewer now. They can't keep food in the fridge. They have no lights. They asked me, "How are we going to pay our hydro bill now

when Mr McGuinty and Mr Sorbara are going to take another $600 out of our pocket?"

I'm asking you for an answer. How do they pay the bills, whether it's auto insurance that you've increased or hydro that you've increased or now another $600

that you want to take out of their modest-income pockets? How do they do this, Minister?

Hon Mr Sorbara: As a result of the measures we've taken in the budget, the children of that family and families right across Ontario will have

free vaccinations. They will have --

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): They're paying for it, Greg. They're paying for it with their premiums.

Hon Mr Sorbara: I wonder if my friend from Nickel Belt has any interest in the answer at all.

The Speaker: Order.

Hon Mr Sorbara: I want to tell my friend that they will have more urgent access to community health care. Their parents will have better home

care. In their communities, a family health team will provide medical services urgently in a community on a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week basis. More importantly than that, that family, participating

in what we are doing in health care, will be able to rely on the fact that this province will have the best health care system in the country and on the continent.

Mr Hampton: Minister, here's the problem. You see, they'd just like to have the power turned on so that she can have a shower before she goes

to work in the morning, so that their kids can have a shower before they have to go to school, so that their kids can have a hot meal, so that they can keep food in the refrigerator safely. You

jacked up their hydro bill. Now you're going to take another $600 a year out of their pockets to pay your unfair tax, and they don't know how they're going to make it.

I think you owe these people an answer. Will you at least ensure that their power gets turned on so that they can start to do something? As it stands right

now, you're taking money out of their pockets on hydro, you're taking money out of their pockets on this health tax, you're taking money out of their pockets if they need to get auto insurance.

They can't pay all the bills, and they want to know why they are being hit, while those impoverished banks and those poor insurance companies are getting a billion-dollar tax reduction.

Hon Mr Sorbara: My friend is talking about a family whose combined income is $60,000 a year. The fact is, he knows that we have a program to

assist ratepayers who are having trouble with their hydro bills as a result of that program.

Mr Hampton: They already tried and were turned down.

Hon Mr Sorbara: He also knows that a family earning $60,000 in the province of Ontario is earning just about the median of the average

industrial wage.

He knows as well that for those who are the most vulnerable in Ontario, our budget provided the first relief -- whether someone was on a disability program or

on social assistance or had kids who required assistance in mental health, for the first time in 11 years we've started to move on that front. I want to tell my friend that we are very, very proud

of that part of our budget, as we are every part of the budget.

DRIVER LICENCES

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): I have a question for the Minister of Transportation. I hope the minister is aware that there is at

least one Web site on the Internet that is currently selling Ontario driver's licences. I went on the site this morning, and the licence for sale is now on sale; it's normally $100, and it's now at

$90. What steps have you taken to ensure that these fake documents are not being passed off as genuine?

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): First of all, I am really not aware of that, and I will make sure that I check it out.

The steps we are taking are that we are already working to have the driver's licence safety strengthened. We are working with other jurisdictions and other provinces to make sure we can incorporate

the security features so the driver's licences are not faked and the security of the drivers can be protected.

Mr Runciman: It's astounding that the minister is not aware. I'll send over the Web site address. Clearly this government continues to

indicate that security is very much a low priority.

Interjections.

Mr Runciman: We are talking about a foundation document here that can be purchased on the Internet to build an identity, and the Liberals

think that's funny. Let the people watching this today have a clear indication --

Hon Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Children and Youth Services, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): You're funny.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order.

Mr Runciman: -- laughing that someone can go on the Internet, buy an Ontario driver's licence, build a fake identity in this province and do

who knows what to this country and the United States. That's funny to Liberals. Well, it isn't funny to Conservatives.

I ask the minister, will he give us an indication of what systems he has in place to protect the integrity of Ontario driver's licences? There's obviously

nothing, but I would like to have an indication, if he doesn't have one, of when he is going to do something about it.

Hon Mr Takhar: I'm sure maybe the member doesn't want to hear what I have to say, but what I said is that my ministry is actively pursuing the

development and implementation and attempting to eliminate all the defrauding of driver's licences.

I also want to say that under the Tories, birth certificates were being defrauded, and they did nothing to prevent it. I don't know where the safety was at

that point in time.

HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): My question is to the Premier. On Friday we held a press conference at my constituency office in

Kapuskasing which various health care professionals attended, from physiotherapists to eye doctors to chiropractors. They are all rather upset in regard to the delisting of services that you have

put in place.

In fact, one of the people who happened to just be walking by that particular press conference outside our constituency office related that she had attended an

eye exam by her eye doctor about three years ago, and as a result of that she had been found to have a malignant cancer behind her eye. If it hadn't been for that particular eye exam, she said she

would be dead today.

In your budget, you describe eye tests, along with chiropractic care and physiotherapy, as "less critical services." How can that be a less critical

service?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Just so we're clear about what will and will not be covered now with

respect to optometry services, we will continue to cover all Ontarians over the age of 65 and under the age of 20. All medically necessary eye examinations will continue to be covered, regardless

of the patient's age, including for things like glaucoma or diabetes. We're also going to institute a program for low-income Ontarians. Ontario was the only province that provided coverage for

routine eye exams for adults between the ages of 20 and 64. We made a difficult decision. Any savings generated as a result of this will be invested in shorter waits when it comes to things like

chemotherapy and radiation.

Mr Bisson: Premier, this constituent in Kapuskasing is not over age 65, she is not under age 20, she is not diabetic and she doesn't have a

family doctor --

Interjection: To get a referral.

Mr Bisson: -- to get the referral. I say to you again, how can you call the services of optometrists less critical in this case? That woman

said she would have died if she had found herself with that cancer after your budget. How do you answer her?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Again, Ontario was the only province that fully funded routine eye exams for all adults. What we're saying now is that if

you're 65 or over, we've got it covered; under the age of 20, we've got that covered; and all medically necessary eye examinations are still going to be covered.

One of the other things we're going to do is a matter of investing in what we believe ought to be our highest priorities: There are going to be 150 family

health teams. This is community-based primary care reform, which is all about ensuring that this particular individual has access to a physician, a nurse practitioner and other nurses, and it's not

a matter of being over 65 or under 20. Family health teams will be accessible to all Ontarians. It's not a matter of age. What we're doing is making investments to ensure that all Ontarians have

access to a family doctor and a nurse practitioner.

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Mr Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): My question is for the Minister of Finance. Since taking office, growing a strong economy has been a

priority for this government; as we know, it is not a priority for the NDP. It was an important part of our recent budget, and I know it continues to be of importance for the people of Ontario.

What evidence can you provide that the Ontario economy is strengthening?

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): The good news is that in the first few months of 2004, we've seen solid growth in virtually all

aspects of the economy, from retail sales to strength in the housing market to a growing consumer sector, and very good news for the month of May: an increase of some 30,000-plus jobs, very many of

them full-time jobs.

Mr Fonseca: Minister, you mentioned a strong increase in employment numbers. Finding quality employment that can provide a better quality of

life is of high importance to many of my constituents and, indeed, to many people in this province. The fact that there are more jobs does not necessarily mean better jobs. What types of jobs are

experiencing growth, and in what areas?

Hon Mr Sorbara: It's kind of across the spectrum, but as far as job creation in May and April -- I think there were some 14,000 new jobs

created in April. The good news is that the vast majority of these jobs are full-time jobs, many in the health care and social assistance sector, but if you go right across the economy, from

automotive to primary industries, you see strength in the economy.

The housing sector, which is so vital to the continued strength of the Ontario economy, continues to show vigorous growth. In fact, housing resale in the last

month reported was the highest ever recorded in the history of the province. We are coming into the summer season. I would suggest to you that we are coming into a very strong period of economic

growth in the province, and that of course makes all of us in this House very happy indeed.

WEST NILE VIRUS

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): My question is to the Premier. York region residents are very concerned about potential threats to their health

resulting from West Nile virus. What actions should people be taking if they find a dead crow on their property -- in their backyard -- to assist the local medical officer of health with regard to

this?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The Minister of Health not being here, I'll do my very best to speak to

the issue. The advice we're giving Ontarians is they should be contacting their local public health authority and informing them that there may be a crow, in particular -- I understand it's the

bird of special interest -- and putting them on notice and providing them with that information.

Mr Klees: Well, Premier, your plan isn't working. Your medical officer of health is clearly not on the job. I have had a number of calls

within the last two weeks from people in York region who have told me that they have, in fact, done as you suggest. They have contacted the local medical officer of health. In fact, there's a

hotline. When they do, they were told, as recently as this past weekend, "Well, we'll get around to it. We may be able to get there within the next couple of days." Yet the same Web site says that

the specimen must be picked up within 12 hours in order to do the appropriate testing to determine whether or not spraying should take place.

Why is the medical officer of health for the province not on the job? Why is the medical officer of health for York region not on the job? Will you, sir,

please take the initiative to ensure that your medical officer of health does what is supposed to be done under these circumstances, because York region residents are at risk because of their

inability to do their job.

Hon Mr McGuinty: Many things have been said in the past about Dr Sheela Basrur, but never has she been criticized in the way that she has just

been criticized by the member opposite. She is on the job. She is assuming her responsibility.

We have a public campaign underway. Beyond that, we are going to upload another 25% of the cost connected with the delivery of public health services, because

we are assuming that responsibility.

This is a government that was accused by the previous chief medical officer of health of the province of Ontario of turning its back on public health. We are

assuming our responsibility when it comes to delivering good quality public health in the province of Ontario.

HEALTH PREMIUMS

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Premier. We hear every day and all through the media that you are claiming that

every penny of health care taxes are going to health care. Nobody believes you, Mr Premier. They don't trust you with their dollars. They know that billions of dollars are going into that great big

black hole to be ripped apart and subsumed.

I'm telling you, there is no dedicated fund for those taxes that you are talking about. They are going straight into general revenues where they can be spent

on roads, sewers and anything else that you determine. My question to you is that you are dramatically raising taxes on modest- and medium-income people, and now those same people are learning that

it is not even going to health care.

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I have no idea whatsoever where the member is getting that

misinformation. The raising of this premium was a difficult decision and I can assure you it's not one that we took lightly. But I can tell you this: Every single penny that will be generated as a

result of this new health care premium will be invested in better quality health care for the people of Ontario. Of that, there is no doubt whatsoever.

Mr Prue: As Socrates once said, "I would gladly believe you, sir, but not against my better judgment."

Modest- and middle-income people know that there's a fat new tax for them, and they also know that there's no tax increase for banks and corporations. You have

not been straight with the people of Ontario. There is no dedicated health care fund. There is no box on the income tax form that says this money is to go to health care. The reality is that it is

all going to general revenue, every single penny of it. You can give no guarantee whatsoever, because of the way you have structured this, that any money at all is going into health.

My question to you is, should the people of Ontario believe you and trust you after the legion of broken promises that you have made here in this House over

the last eight months?

Hon Mr McGuinty: If there was some kind of law against trafficking in misinformation and scaremongering, then they would be the subject of

many, many arrests.

Let me tell you what Ontarians are going to get for this premium. They're going to get immunizations for 600,000 children in our first year. We're going to

reduce wait times to --

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Could I ask the leader of the third party to come to order.

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I'm agreeing with the Premier.

The Speaker: Order. Premier?

Hon Mr McGuinty: In addition to the 600,000 Ontario children who will receive free immunizations this year, during the course of our mandate

we're going to be creating 8,000 new full-time nursing positions; 150 family health teams; nine new MRI and CT sites; 100,000 more Ontarians will receive home care; children's mental health will

receive a healthy injection for the first time in 12 years.

The other thing we're going to do is, we're going to start to make up for lost time because of cuts made to medical school spaces by the former NDP government:

We're building a new medical school in northern Ontario; we're going to double the number of spaces for international medical graduates; and we're going to ensure that Ontarians can actually get

access to a family doctor.

CONSERVATION AUTHORITIES

Mrs Linda Jeffrey (Brampton Centre): My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. Credit Valley Conservation is an important

organization in my riding of Brampton Centre. When the CVC was created in 1954, the Credit River and its communities were facing great challenges. Property-damaging floods were a regular

occurrence. In summer, water flow was reduced to a trickle, and in some areas sewage, industrial discharge and sediment polluted our water. Since the formation of Credit Valley Conservation, a slow

but steady recovery has occurred.

However, in 1996 the previous government cut the conservation authority funding from $7 million to less than $200,000, and at the same time increased financial

pressures on the authority through provincial downloading. What initiatives is your ministry taking to assist the authority in its responsibility?

Hon David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources): I'd like to thank my colleague from Brampton Centre for this very important question. The

Ontario budget enhanced the eligibility criteria for the conservation land property tax exemption program. This means that the lands with natural and environmental significance owned by

conservation authorities and conservation land trusts may be eligible to receive tax relief under this program. This expansion will increase the ability of these organizations to preserve lands

with natural and environmental significance in a manner that is more reflective of the regional conservation objectives and priorities of the local communities.

I'd like to add that the MNR also will be providing $7.6 million in this fiscal year to our 36 conservation authorities across Ontario.

Mrs Jeffrey: Credit Valley Conservation and the Ontario conservation authority have maintained the environment for the benefit of all

Ontarians. To their credit, there is as much forest cover in the Peel watershed now as there was 100 years ago. As well, Atlantic salmon, which have not been seen in the river in 150 years, are

beginning to return.

But due to the previous government cuts, Credit Valley Conservation has had to lay off half of its staff, cut its board in half and cut programs such as

stewardship and natural heritage programs. Our municipalities have expressed great concern because they have endured increasing costs to assist the authority.

We saw the results of a previous government's cuts during the Walkerton disaster. Our government made a commitment to support the environment. Is our

government committed to ensuring source water protection?

Hon Mr Ramsay: The MNR is contributing to a healthier Ontario by spending an additional $32 million on watershed-based source protection

programs, which complements the $60 million that my colleague the Minister of the Environment is also spending on these clean water programs. A portion of this funding will go to conservation

authorities to fulfill their responsibility in source protection planning.

This new funding for source water protection planning initially supports capacity building in the form of resource expertise, completion of technical studies,

information management, systems development, formation of the watershed region, and planning committee process. On April 14 of this year, a new regulation was passed in the Conservation Authority

Act that provides conservation authorities with an updated regulatory framework to control development, filling and related activities in water systems, shorelines and wetlands.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): My question is to my good friend the Minister of Finance. It is my understanding that your assistant deputy minister

wrote to the trailer industry coalition on May 27 regarding the problematic assessment and taxation of recreational trailers used on a seasonal basis. This letter, which I'm reading here, indicates

that ministry staff would be pleased to work with the coalition to explore the designation of a proposed new tag system.

I commend you on your staff working to find solutions. It's my hope that you'll find an agreeable solution that fits all the needs, not just in my riding of

Durham but throughout Ontario.

As we enter the trailer and camping season, you know just how important it is to bring stability to this industry. I recently spoke with Roger Faulkner, Al

Robinson and the Goreskis in my riding of Durham. They have the solution --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): And the question?

Mr O'Toole: Minister, are you committed to working to find a solution to recreational trailers as we enter the camping season in Ontario?

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): I think the simple answer to my friend is that we most certainly are. That's one of the reasons why we

cancelled the retroactive aspects of the trailer system. It's a problem that we inherited. We have begun to make some progress. We cancelled the retroactive application of that system.

The piece of really good news that I have for my friend is that my parliamentary assistant, the member from Eglinton-Lawrence, Mike Colle, is taking on the

next phase of reforms in property tax and the problems with MPAC which we've heard about in this House. I'm sure that under his direction we're going to be able to solve this problem in a timely

fashion.

Mr O'Toole: I think just simply doing the right thing is the answer. I need your commitment today to work with the coalition to implement the

tag system before the instability that you've created in the industry. I commend you for looking at the retroactive tax situation in this case, as you should have looked in other cases, I might

add.

I want to commend the member for Haliburton-Victoria-Brock, Laurie Scott, as well as Tim Hudak from Erie-Lincoln. We've worked tirelessly and patiently with

you and with Mr Colle on this issue. We want your commitment today to solve this problem. Write the letter. Do the right thing for the hard-working people of Ontario, and you'll find support on

this side of the House. Admit today, are you going to do the right thing and implement the tag system?

Hon Mr Sorbara: Here's the commitment that he'll get from me, and it will be firm and unequivocal: We are going to work on this problem and

solve it, notwithstanding that the folks that he was governing with up until last October 2 had quite a long time to do something with it and did absolutely nothing. We're going to solve it. But I

will not, in this context, make a commitment to adopt any specific solution. We need, as my friend from Durham knows, to do a little bit more work on this. One of the things that we are doing is

extending the assessment period so we have a breather of six months -- uniformly praised right across Ontario. We've got a breather of about six months to get some of this stuff right. I will

commit to him today that we will get it right.

HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): My question again is to the Premier, this time on the same issue but a different community.

On Saturday morning, physiotherapists and various eye care specialists, along with chiropractors, assembled at my constituency office for a press conference in

order to bemoan the situation in Timmins when it comes to your delisting of important essential health services. The point they make is this: In a situation where we already have a critical

shortage of physicians in the north, as well as in other parts of Ontario, patients will have no choice but to suffer pain, in the case of chiropractors, and upon the pain becoming intolerable will

have to either go to a doctor's office or to an emergency ward that's already having problems to get health services.

Tell me how delisting health care services for these people is going to assist an already difficult situation when it comes to essential health services for

physicians in northern Ontario.

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Again, one of the things that we're going to do with the savings

generated by no longer covering certain kinds of services -- which, by the way, and I know the member would not disagree with me in this particular regard, are not mandated under the terms of the

Canada Health Act -- is trying to make up for the closure of medical school spaces many years ago during the NDP government and the shortage of doctors. So we're building a medical school in

northern Ontario. We have doubled the number of spaces available for international medical graduates. Beyond that, we are investing in 150 family health teams, to bring primary care to every

community in Ontario. Now, this is a challenge we've set for ourselves. But in order to make those investments, it was essential that we make some difficult choices, and we have.

Mr Bisson: Premier, you don't get it. Not only are you not going to save any money with this situation, you're going to make a bad situation

worse. We have a critical shortage of doctors and physicians across northern Ontario, as do other parts of this province. You're going to be basically shifting patients from chiropractors, eye

doctors and physiotherapists, into either an emergency ward that can't deal with them or a doctor's office that doesn't have the time to deal with them either.

My question to you is simply this: How does delisting these important essential services of chiropractors and others assist the situation when it comes to an

already critical shortage of doctors in northern Ontario?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I think the public is entitled to know exactly what experts in the area have said in response to our budget. Here's a quote

from Doris Grinspun, executive director of the Registered Nurses' Association of Ontario. She says Ontarians are the real winners: "I am delighted with the focus on health care, and even more

delighted with the focus on real transformation of the system ... home health care, primary health care ... long-term care and public health."

This is from an expert who works together with thousands of nurses on the front lines. We are receiving support for our plan to move ahead with primary care

reform and to make sure there are more doctors available in all our communities, including northern Ontario.

NORTHERN ONTARIO DEVELOPMENT

Mr Bill Mauro (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): My question is for the Minister of Finance. The Northwestern Ontario Associated Chambers of Commerce is

responsible for the grow bonds initiative, that will allow northerners to invest in themselves. Many small to medium-sized northern enterprises have difficulty accessing capital.

We in northern Ontario are very proud of this local initiative and the positive impacts it can have for all of northern Ontario. We thank you and our

government for moving forward with grow bonds. Can you provide some detail at this point as to what the program will look like?

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): I've just recently come back from both Thunder Bay and Sudbury, and the part of the budget that made

me proudest was the initiatives we're taking in respect of northern Ontario, and in particular the way in which I think the northern prosperity program is going to help generate more new and

vibrant economic growth there. I was particularly appreciative of my friend from Parry Sound-Muskoka making some real, honest, positive comments about the grow bond program.

In brief, the program will provide capital for small and medium-sized businesses, new or expanding. The principal and interest of the bonds will be guaranteed

by the province of Ontario. It makes very much needed private capital available to a wide variety of businesses right across the northern part of the province.

Mr Mauro: I want to thank you again for listening to the needs of northern Ontario. We're very excited about the program. Can you tell me when

the grow bonds pilot project will begin in northern Ontario?

Hon Mr Sorbara: Good question. The answer is, that really is up to the members of the opposition, including my friend from Parry

Sound-Muskoka. In order to implement the grow bonds program, we need to pass legislation in this House. Governments can't simply lend money without legislative authority.

So we will soon be bringing forward legislation. We hope and expect that by the end of the year legislation will be in place and the northern grow bonds

program can become part of a new and emerging northern economy.

HEALTH PREMIUMS

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): My question is for the Premier. With each passing day, it becomes more obvious that you and your

government had little understanding of the consequences of the actions in your budget. If we take a look at the Toronto District School Board and the Toronto Catholic school board, both have

clauses that date back to about 1990 that ensure that if the government institutes a health care premium, it will be covered by the board for its staff. That would mean, for the Toronto District

School Board, that it would cost taxpayers about $10 million. Will you guarantee that you will not hurt Ontario's students by taking money out of the classroom to pay for your new health tax?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): To the Minister of Finance.

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): My friend is fully aware that I have made public, clear, unequivocal statements that the Ontario

health premium which was provided for in this budget is not a premium for the purposes of those collective agreements. She can scaremonger as much as she wants in this House. She can suggest that

the vitality of the Toronto District School Board or the Toronto Catholic District School Board is threatened by this premium. It is not a premium for the purposes of those collective agreements,

and the legislation we'll bring forward in this House will make that eminently clear.

Mrs Witmer: It's obvious the government does not understand the consequences of this initiative in their budget, because according to the

leaders of the unions, they are going to insist that these premiums be honoured. So I guess I would say to you again, can you guarantee that not one cent of the money you are going to give to

school boards is going to be used to pay the unions for this tax? Are you going to guarantee that you will not take any money out of the classroom for our students?

Hon Mr Sorbara: My friend has dealt with collective agreements. She knows full well that there may be unions in this province -- or an

employer -- that will try and bargain to participate in a salary increase related to the health premium. If she wants me to use this time and space to intervene in the normal collective bargaining

that will be going on, she's got another think coming. She is absolutely wrong.

All I can tell her is -- and I'll tell her once again, very clearly -- the Ontario health premium is not a premium for the purposes of those collective

agreements, because failure to pay the premium does not disqualify the individual from the health care services of this province; failure to pay the premium represents simply a violation of the

Ontario Income Tax Act, full stop.

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Ms Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): My question is for the Premier. I received a call last week from the office of a doctor who was very eager

to meet with me. I discovered that it was a doctor of chiropractic, and why did that doctor want to meet with me? She wanted to meet with me in order to deliver scores and scores of letters from

patients who are outraged over the delisting of chiropractic services.

Hamilton is an industrial city. Many citizens have ongoing issues of pain. They have ongoing issues of health management and pain management that are assisted

by chiropractic and physiotherapy appointments. I was elected to be a strong voice on behalf of those residents of Hamilton East.

My question to you is: When will they get the kind of response they need from this government? When will this government admit its error in judgment in regard

to the delisting of these programs and these essential health services?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Again, just so we don't lose sight of the facts here, prior to the

changes we're making here with respect to the provision of chiropractic services, we were only covering $150 per patient on an annual basis. We will invest the approximately $100 million saved from

eliminating these payments in priority health care areas, such as reducing waiting times for life-saving services such as MRIs, CT scans and cardiac care; we're going to hire more nurses and

doctors; and we're going to create family health teams -- in fact, 150. It's a difficult decision, but it's what we decided to do. You've got to establish where your priorities are, and that's what

we've done.

Ms Horwath: My priorities are in speaking out on behalf of the residents of the riding I represent, which is one of the lowest-income ridings

in this province, and so it's very important that I bring to your attention that $150 is a lot of money for the people living in Hamilton East. The costs of these services are going to be even

greater to our health care system when these people are forced into emergency rooms and forced into greater visits for primary care.

I ask you once again, when can we expect the government to admit the error of its ways, to just admit they made a mistake and ensure that these people can

afford the services they need?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I can appreciate that the member is sincere in raising concerns on behalf of her constituents. There is no doubt about that

whatsoever. But I would also hope that she's going to inform her constituents about some of the wonderful things we're doing by way of investment in health care by means of this budget.

Interjection.

Hon Mr McGuinty: We're going to bring immunizations for 600,000 children this year. We're going to reduce wait times for cardiac care,

cataract surgeries, hip and joint replacements; 8,000 new full-time nursing positions -- I'm sure the member will be interested in that; 150 family health teams; nine new MRI and CT sites. Close to

100,000 more Ontarians will receive home care. We're increasing the quality of care available to the 70,000-plus seniors who take up residence in our nursing homes.

Those are the kinds of investments we are making. We think they're good investments, we think they're sound investments, but they're the result of making some

difficult choices. We've made those choices and now we're making the investments.

BOCCE BALL

Mr Mario Sergio (York West): My question is for the Minister of Tourism and Recreation. On June 2, 2004, Stephen Harper, during a radio

interview with FAN 590 regarding infrastructure funding, is quoted as saying, "That's where you end up with bocce courts instead of highways." At the same time Mr Harper, in regard to public

spending, said, "Ultimately you can hold David Miller and the municipalities accountable for the decisions they are making."

A bocce court, I believe, is similar to lawn bowling and serves its purpose as both a recreational and therapeutic pastime. Many of our constituents would say

that that is money well spent. How do you see the need of financing bocce courts in your ministry?

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): It's extremely important. First of all, I'm surprised that Mr Harper wouldn't be

aware that sports such as bocce are important for our health and well-being. It's a lifelong sport that keeps people active and gives them a chance to socialize with their friends. It has a

particular appeal among one of Ontario's largest multicultural communities. It's a great way for older people to remain active and healthy.

I must say to the member that Canada is obviously bigger and more diverse than Mr Harper thinks. No matter what it looks like from Calgary Southwest, Mr Harper

has to learn about the diversity of Canada. Then maybe he would know that bocce is a Canadian sport, that it's exceedingly important in terms of a person's overall health that many people in this

community of Toronto in particular, but also right across this country, enjoy. I'm surprised that Mr Harper would pick on bocce one more time when it's a wonderful sport for all Canadians. I think

it's somewhat of an insult to those who play bocce ball.

PETITIONS

HEALTH CARE REFORM

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I have a petition entitled "Reject Bill 8 -- Keep Ontario Government Hands Off Hospital Workers'

Contracts.

"Whereas the McGuinty government has introduced Bill 8, the Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act, 2003; and

"Whereas Bill 8 paves the legal path for the government to restructure Ontario's hospitals through privatization and contracting-out of services; and

"Whereas Bill 8 would, if passed, give the government the authority to break or vary existing contracts of employment; and

"Whereas Bill 8, if passed, would give the government the authority to override provisions in employment agreements; and

"Whereas this government authority granted by Bill 8 could result in the breaking of contracts with hospital and other health care workers that were bargained

in good faith, thus jeopardizing their future employment;

"We, the undersigned, request the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and the standing committee on justice and social policy to reject Bill 8 in its entirety and

prevent government from altering collectively bargained agreements for hospital workers across Ontario."

I sign this petition.

PENSION PLANS

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas Stelpipe Ltd and Welland Pipe Ltd are currently operating under the protection of the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act, as part of the

restructuring process being undertaken by Stelco Inc; and

"Whereas there is a significant unfunded liability in the Stelpipe and Welland Pipe pension plans for hourly employees; and

"Whereas there will be a significant negative impact on the pensions of both active employees and retirees in the event of a windup of these pension plans;

and

"Whereas the pension benefits guarantee fund does not protect the entire amount of accrued pension benefits; and

"Whereas the pension benefits guarantee fund may not have sufficient assets to provide such protection;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

"(1) to amend the provisions of the PBGF in order that it provides complete coverage and protection for the accrued pension benefits of all pension plan

members;

"(2) to amend the financing provisions for the PBGF in order to ensure that sufficient funds are available to provide for the complete protection of all

accrued pension benefits;

"(3) to take interim action as required in order to provide immediate protection of the accrued pension benefits for both active employees and retirees of

Stelpipe and Welland Pipe."

Signed by hundreds. I've affixed my signature as well.

ALEXANDER GRAHAM BELL PARKWAY

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Alexander Graham Bell, renowned inventor of society-altering technological inventions such as the telephone, greatly revolutionized the daily lives of

people in Ontario, Canada and," indeed, "the world; and

"Whereas Alexander Graham Bell's contributions to science, technology and society as a whole were in part developed and tested while he lived in Brantford,

Ontario; and

"Whereas Brantford lies at the heart of the

section of the 403 which runs from Woodstock to Burlington;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To adopt and pass into law Dave Levac's private member's bill, Bill 44, the Alexander Graham Bell Parkway Act, renaming Highway 403 between Woodstock and

Burlington as a tribute to this great inventor," and Canadian and Brantfordian.

I sign my name to this and give this to our page Jason.

LANDFILL

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I'm pleased to present this on behalf of some high school students in north Simcoe. A petition to the

Minister of the Environment, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and the county of Simcoe:

"Whereas landfill site 41 has the potential to pollute a major source of fresh water supply and affect the life and well-being of present and future

generations; and

"Whereas many engineering features related to the site construction are grossly flawed; and

"Whereas landfill site 41 will have a negative impact on many acres of number one and number two farmland; and

"Whereas landfill site 41 has the potential to interfere and possibly cause loss of life due to its close proximity to Huronia airport; and

"Whereas we, as the youth of this part of the province of Ontario, will be left with this unwelcome legacy; and

"Whereas no one has given us the opportunity to be heard on this issue from its inception;

"We, the undersigned youth of Ontario, petition the Minister of the Environment, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and the county of Simcoe to correct this

gross error in judgment and to stop this madness which will impact on our lives and those of our children and grandchildren."

I'm very pleased to affix my signature to this petition.

SNOWMOBILING

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"As an avid snowmobiler, my spending on snowmobile-related purchases and hospitality services and amenities while riding contributes to the annual $1-billion

economic impact of snowmobiling in communities in rural Ontario and northern Ontario. My spending helps drive the winter tourism season for much of our province, creating jobs, opportunities and

businesses that would not otherwise exist. I am very concerned that my ability to continue snowmobiling in Ontario is threatened by the unaffordable costs of the personal insurance required for my

snowmobile. I am also very concerned that the massive costs of third-party liability insurance necessary to cover trails, clubs, volunteers and landowners is forcing fee increases in the trail

permit I must buy.

"Therefore, I ask the provincial government to act immediately to implement short-term steps that recognize and alleviate these two insurance problems for next

winter, and also to develop long-term solutions to restore snowmobiling insurance to practical and affordable levels so that I can continue to participate and so that snowmobiling can continue to

flourish as a major winter tourism generator."

These were delivered to me by Roger Girard of Val Therese, who lives in Nickel Belt. I agree with him and I've affixed my signature to this.

VISITOR

Ms Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas I have my mother visiting this Assembly today from Winnipeg, Manitoba; and

"Whereas I wish to comply with the Speaker's rules of introduction; and

"Whereas my family would be very disappointed if she was not recognized;

"We, the undersigned, welcome Noella Laurence to this Legislative Assembly this afternoon."

I have affixed my signature.

DISTRICT OF MUSKOKA

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have a petition signed by thousands of my constituents and people concerned about Muskoka being taken

out of the north. It's a petition to keep Muskoka part of northern Ontario.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the district of Muskoka is currently designated as part of northern Ontario; and

"Whereas the geography and socio-economic conditions of Muskoka are very similar to the rest of northern Ontario; and

"Whereas the median family income in the district of Muskoka is $10,000 below the provincial average and $6,000 below the median family income for greater

Sudbury; and

"Whereas removing the district of Muskoka from northern Ontario would adversely affect the hard-working people of Muskoka by restricting access to programs and

incentives enjoyed by residents of other northern communities; and

"Whereas the residents of Muskoka should not be confused with those who cottage or vacation in the district; and

"Whereas this is a mean-spirited and politically motivated decision on the part of the McGuinty government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the McGuinty government maintain the current definition of northern Ontario for the purposes of government policy and program delivery."

I support this petition with its thousands of signatures, and sign my name to it.

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas auto insurance rates continue to skyrocket, contrary to the official position of the Liberal government and the insurance industry; and

"Whereas more and more drivers are being cut off by their insurance companies for no valid reason and are being dumped into the Facility Association; and

"Whereas all attempts to regulate the auto insurance industry have failed;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

"That the Ontario government immediately introduce legislation that would bring to Ontario a public, not-for-profit automobile insurance program similar to the

ones currently in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia."

Signed by thousands. I have affixed my signature as well.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): "

Whereas the current method of allocating municipal tax revenues to the taxpayer by property tax based on

current market value" assessment "has the following unwanted characteristics:

"

(1) The tax burden varies subject to the desirability of a location, making taxes unpredictable and difficult to budget for;

"

(2) The relative market value of a property is subjective and variable and subject to disagreement;

"

(3) Long-time residents on fixed incomes in particular are affected, causing hardship, but this problem also affects young families;

"

(4) Neighbourhood instability is increased as house sales are accelerated beyond the normal rate of neighbourhood renewal;

"

(5) Residents who have done no home improvements pay increased taxes because of new higher cost development in a neighbourhood, out of their control, and

perceive this as unfair;

"

(6) Widely different property taxes caused by market value pay for equivalent services for each resident, without any apparent conscious policy, social good,

and regardless of ability to pay...;

"

(7) Long-standing policy exempts the sale of a principal residence from capital gains tax, yet current value assessment effectively contradicts this, causing

a prepaid capital gains penalty based on a latent value which may never be realized;

"

(8) Resentment in one part of a community that it is paying more than its fair share can lead to division and other socially undesirable effects; and

"Whereas these undesirable effects, which are sufficient ... on their own for our petition, are exacerbated by the increased reliance on the property tax to

fund a greater range of government programs as instituted by the former government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"To change the method of property assessment so that it becomes based on objective criteria, using a formula such as lot size in conjunction with building

total exterior dimensions, and removes the location and desirability factor from the calculation."

I affix my name hereto, as I support the petition.

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have a petition here presented to me last Friday. It's signed by hundreds, if not thousands, of my constituents,

and it is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Re support for chiropractic services in Ontario health insurance plan:

"Whereas,

"Elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care they

need;

"Those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already overburdened family

physician offices and emergency departments;

"Elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200 million in other

health care costs; and

"There was no consultation with the public on the decision to delist chiropractic services;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP

coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system," and the government of the province.

I affix my signature, as I totally agree with it.

DRIVER EXAMINATIONS FOR SENIORS

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas regarding the AZ driver testing, we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The following are some of the concerns which truck drivers and driver-owners between the ages of 65 and 75 years have incurred:

"We feel that the province of Ontario discriminates against AZ drivers once they reach the age of 65 by requiring them to be retested in the same manner as a

person who has no experience, ie, written test, air brake test, road test, medical and vision. These tests can become very costly by losing time off work; renting or leasing equipment for road

tests.

"This form of testing is only required by the province of Ontario. Every other province in Canada and every state in the United States only require vision and

medical exams for licence renewal.

"A driver's history can be checked through the licence point system and also through CVOR system. The testing system in Ontario is so overloaded with new

applicants, it doesn't make sense to require drivers with 25-30 years' experience to add to the problem by being tested. Some drivers have to make appointments 100 miles from their home to be

retested before their birthday. There are cases where an independent owner-operator has been tested and failed and not been able to drive his own truck home because his licences have been

downgraded on the spot. Now he has to absorb more costs to get his equipment home. It seems common sense has become rather uncommon. The ministry seems to have the attitude that once we reach 65

years of age, we wake up one morning and forget everything we ever learned. Maybe we should hold our doctors, lawyers and especially our political leaders to the same standard.

"We feel that an annual medical and vision test should be adequate to maintain our AZ driving privilege."

It's signed by hundreds, and I have affixed my signature as well.

RETIREMENT HOMES

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): This is a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas elderly citizens living in retirement homes have no provincial legislation to protect them. Retirement homes are uninspected, unmonitored and

unregulated; the quality of care varies widely. We are asking" the provincial Legislature "to implement regular inspections with the authority to impose violations, charges and penalties. To

establish and ensure set standards for retirement homes must be met and adhered to."

I sign this petition with great glee. Hopefully, we can get something done about it.

LANDFILL

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the county of Simcoe proposes to construct a landfill at site 41 in the township of Tiny; and

"Whereas the county of Simcoe has received, over a period of time, the necessary approvals from the Ministry of the Environment to design and construct a

landfill at site 41; and

"Whereas, as part of the landfill planning process, peer reviews of site 41 identified over 200 recommendations for improvements to the design, most of which

are related to potential groundwater contamination; and

"Whereas the Minister of the Environment has on numerous occasions stated her passion for clean and safe water and the need for water source protection;

and

"Whereas the Minister of the Environment has indicated her intention to introduce legislation on water source protection, which is a final and key

recommendation to be implemented under Justice Dennis O'Connor's report on the Walkerton inquiry; and

"Whereas the Minister of the Environment has announced expert panels that will make recommendations to the minister on water source protection legislation;

and

"Whereas the Ministry of the Environment will now be responsible for policing nutrient management; and

"Whereas the citizens of Ontario will be expecting a standing committee of the Legislature to hold province-wide public hearings on water source protection

legislation;

"We, the undersigned, call upon the government of Ontario and the Ministry of the Environment to immediately place a moratorium on the development of site 41

until the water source protection legislation is implemented in Ontario. We believe the legislation will definitely affect the design of site 41 and the nearby water sources."

I'm pleased to sign my name to that.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

2004 ONTARIO BUDGET

Resuming the debate adjourned on May 20, 2004, on the motion that this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Further debate?

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I'm pleased to be able to speak to this motion, which, of course, is time allocated. I'm joined this

afternoon by Andrea Horwath, our new member for Hamilton East.

Interjection.

Mr Kormos: Well, read the standing orders.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I would ask the member opposite not to refer

to this as time allocated. It's provided for in the standing orders, which were agreed to by all three parties.

Mr Kormos: Precisely my point: It's time allocated, and I find that regrettable. But this is my chance to speak to it, and Ms Horwath will be

speaking to it before the afternoon is over in the context of this time allocation.

Interjection.

Mr Kormos: Look, I don't think there's any secret about the fact that New Democrats have nothing but disgust for this budget. This budget is a

vicious attack on seniors, on low-income families, on the middle class -- as if they haven't carried enough of a burden -- on the sick and on the poorest members of our community. Across my riding

and beyond, as I've had occasion on weekends and evenings to get back home and to travel to other parts of the province, there is a unanimity among Ontarians of disdain, not only for the budget but

for its authors. There is a visceral contempt out there for Liberals, a contempt that could be justified, I put to you, on any number of grounds, but that, when people are asked to explain, is

clearly related to the viciousness, the meanness of this budget, a budget that gives tax cuts to the wealthiest banks and insurance companies and then picks the pockets once again of working women

and men, their retired folks and their low-income sisters and brothers.

I got a message from Tracey Cruise. I know her and her family. She lives in Welland -- a good woman, a good family, really hard-working people. You're not

going to find harder-working folks than these. You're not going to find people who are stronger members of their community than Tracey Cruise and her family. You see, I know her and her family.

Ms Cruise wrote this to me:

"I know this is just one minuscule thing in the big picture of things, but I have to point out something about this health tax, because I've lived the

situation." Bear with me, Speaker; bear with Ms Cruise.

"You have met my son before, Jay Cruise, as Helen Brown was kind enough to take him up to meet you and have a tour. We have experienced childhood cancer and

all the hardships that come with it. Although Jay is now three years in remission" -- and he's a bright young boy. I was so exceptionally proud to have him sitting in the members' gallery here at

Queen's Park, watching question period and understanding a little better how this Parliament works, or, from case to case or time to time, how it doesn't work. "Although Jay is now three years in

remission, watching the budget, it got me thinking back to those nightmare days when he was first diagnosed." Think about this, friends. This budget provoked memories of the shock, the horror, the

agony, the distress and the gut-wrenching pain of this woman learning that her little boy had cancer.

"I could not work when Jay was diagnosed. Unfortunately, my boss had told me to take my time coming back to work and then suddenly my job was filled by his

wife. I could not collect unemployment because I was told I was not `available' to work (shame on me for taking my son for his chemo sessions) so disqualified for employment insurance. We were

entitled to the disabled child's benefit, but because it was based on the previous year's income, when I was employed full-time, we received less than $100 a month, until we filed another year of

taxes, then it could be adjusted up. The maximum is only about $375 anyhow. The additional costs that are not covered are amazing. Even with

section 8 applications, not all are covered. Just Jay's

medication to stop him from vomiting after chemo cost me $475 for three days' worth of pills (chemo every three weeks so" you "do the math!) and I never did get

section 8 approval. My husband's

plan did not cover it either and what was covered was only 60%. Not to mention the trips to Hamilton, (the cancer society was a great help), having to stay in the hospital with Jay for a week for

every second treatment, the cost of food etc, etc.

"Is the health tax going to be based on the same calculation, ie, your previous year's income? If that is the case, you will have families in the midst of a

crisis, having to worry about all that is involved and then worried about that extra expense as well. When your child is diagnosed, it is almost impossible to work and unless you have a generous

employer, you will lose one paycheque. It will be another year before their payments are adjusted downwards based on income. I have lived it and believe me," Tracey Cruise writes, "the last thing I

needed to deal with when my child was sick was whether I could afford the roof over my head, not to mention the necessities of caring for my child. You have other priorities to deal with. Sure,

maybe an appeal process will be in place for a situation where income is changed, but that is not the point. Your priority is dealing with your sick child, not playing with government red tape!!!!!

You just don't have the time or the energy for it.

"We are faced with increasing taxes (I know another promise broken)," Ms Cruise writes, "and my husband and I were figuring the other night it takes just one

pay to cover car insurance, house insurance and life insurance (huge increases.) The other pay has to take care of the mortgage, utilities (again, ever increasing.)" Gas, electricity. "The cost of

gas is skyrocketing. When groceries are bought and taxes are paid ... what is left? Now a double-income family has to look at other things to cut in their already stretched budgets or take on more

work. How does that benefit a family? Just seven years ago, we were able to live on one pay," Ms Cruise writes. "Seven years ago $40,000 to $50,000 was considered a good comfortable income. Today

that amount is a necessity and merely a drop in the bucket. When Jay was sick, we incurred about $20,000 in debt because of lost income and increased expenses. We are still paying that debt load

off. If taxes are increased, we will not be able to put the meagre amount we do now in RRSP. Is the Ontario government going to support me when I have no retirement funds? We are the typical

double-income family. We have vehicle loans. My son will start college in another year. Tuition costs are sky high, my budget is stretched to the limit. What funds will he have available? Not

likely will he qualify for a loan with us as co-signers because we are stretched to the limits. We will barely be making ends meet. What is wrong with this picture?" Ms Cruise writes.

"I am just sick and fed up with it all. I have always taken each new budget with a shrug. I just feel with everything else that is happening, this is the straw

that breaks the camel's back. Not only are we being taxed to death, but nothing is being done about ridiculous increases in insurance rates and utilities. In the past couple of years, I have

watched my house insurance double. And that is my reward for claims-free rating!!! I won't even get into the car insurance fiasco. Jay gets his licence in June. Unfortunately, that is not the

thrill it used to be. He can drive while he has his beginners, but has to give it up in June as we cannot afford the increase in the insurance rate for him once he gets his next class of licence.

He works hard at his part-time job, but that is not enough to put away for college and pay $150 monthly for the increase in our car insurance. By the time insurance rates are capped, the insurance

companies will have jacked our rates so high, they could live off the profits for 90 years or so. Next year, my daughter won't be doing anything extracurricular at this rate." Sad. "Next year, my

daughter won't be doing anything extracurricular at this rate.

"I hope Mr McGuinty can sleep at night knowing the extra stress he has just burdened the average double-income family with. Add more taxes and solve less

problems, but hey, the budget will eventually be balanced, or will it? By the time it gets balanced, more than half the population will be bankrupt.

"Sorry, I tend to get rather verbose when I get heated up about a subject! Thanks for letting me `bend your ear.'"

I don't know whether Ms Cruise is watching -- or maybe her son, Jay, is -- but she should know that while I'm reading her comments -- as is her right, I

believe; I'm her representative. I'm proud to be Ms Cruise's and her family's voice this afternoon here in this Legislature, because Ms Cruise isn't alone. There are many more double-income

families just like her. They're the sort of families that Howard Hampton and other New Democrats have been trying to talk to Dalton McGuinty and the Liberals about during the course of question

period.

The views of Ms Cruise are views that are prevalent across this province. It's not one person, one family in one community. Go anywhere: Go to small-town

Ontario or big-city Ontario. Go to the north. Go to rural Ontario. Here's a double-income family that acknowledges that they've been blessed, but who find themselves under attack by a government

that would rather give tax breaks to the richest of banks and insurance companies, the most profitable of huge, mega, multi-billion-dollar corporations.

I want folks to know that as I've been reading the comments of Ms Cruise on to this legislative record, there is at least one Liberal heckler who has been

accusing me of having fabricated this, who somehow suggests that this is a forgery. So, Tracey, at least one Liberal in this Legislature doesn't think you even exist. That's what the heckling was.

"That person's not real. That's not a real letter from that woman." So the Liberals were telling me, Tracey Cruise, while I was reading your comments on to this legislative record. Liberals are

saying, "You don't exist, Ms Cruise." Liberals are saying, "This is a fabrication."

You see, that's the problem. Liberals here just don't get it, do they? They just don't get it. New Democrats and other opposition members have been railing

against the privatization of health care in this province under the Liberal watch; again, part and parcel of that same Liberal budget. Call it what you want. You can call it "delisting services,"

but when you take critical areas of health care, when you take very specific health professionals like physiotherapists or chiropractors or optometrists and tell folks that their critical medical

services -- and they are -- are no longer to be part of our public health care system -- oh, you can still go to a chiropractor; make no mistake about it. You can still go to an optometrist; make

no mistake about that. You can still go to a physiotherapist, but by God, you'd better be able to do it the American way with hard, cold cash, you see? It's the American way of health care. It

doesn't work in the United States, where only the wealthiest can access medical care, and low-income, and yes, even middle-income people -- Ms Cruise and her family are middle-income people who

have been pushed to the limit.

These are people who have worked hard all of their lives. These are people who believe in making investments. These are people who were proud to pay taxes,

knowing that those taxes were investments in public education and public health care. Here's Tracey Cruise, a woman, because of her son's incredible, and I say incredibly brave and courageous,

struggle, fighting his own cancer, who knows full well how important public health care is to all of our welfare.

I told you before and I'll tell you again: I'm old enough, as are a whole lot of other people in this chamber, to remember a time in our history, because it

wasn't that long ago, when there wasn't a public health care system. It was well within the lifetime of most of the people in this chamber. Well, not these young pages. But I remember the time, and

it wasn't that long ago in the total scheme of things, when once the supper table was cleared, moms and dads, folks, sat down at that kitchen table and in hushed tones debated about whether or not

to take a sick kid to the doctor the next day, because doing so meant dipping into the mortgage money or the rent money or the grocery money or the utilities money. You had to weigh your ability to

pay against the risk that you were prepared to take, and even the most caring and loving of parents made errors. Because families couldn't afford to pay, kids didn't get taken to the doctor, and

there were casualties. Kids died. Kids were crippled. Others in this chamber of my generation will remember some of those kids. They were our neighbours. By God, sometimes they were our sisters and

brothers. Those were not the good old days.

I've witnessed generations of Ontarians like the Cruises working hard, making sacrifices and investments to build public health care, to expand it, to watch it

and enable it and nurture it so that it grows. We shouldn't be having a debate about the Liberal government's privatization of critical health services; we should be having a debate about building

public health care so that, for instance, we have a public pharmacy plan, we have pharmacare, so that people don't continue to get ripped off by the rich, profitable, multinational corporate

pharmaceutical drug manufacturers.

The debate should be about building medicare, building public health care. We should be talking about taking the legacy that our parents left us in terms of

medicare, in terms of public health care, and watching it grow with the addition of pharmacare, with the addition of dental care into our public health care system. Rather, this Liberal government,

Dalton McGuinty and Ontario's Liberals, have more dramatically privatized health care than the Tories ever even dared attempt, think of, contemplate or propose.

This is a tragedy not just for the thousands and thousands of Ontario families that it punishes, but it's a tragedy because too many generations of Ontarians

and other Canadians worked too hard for too long, sacrificed too much to build a public health care system, for us to destroy it now. Ontarians are angry. Ontarians hold this government in the

highest of contempt and find it amazing that there's not one single backbencher among the 70-plus with the guts or the gonads to stand up and speak out on behalf of the people they represent.

That's sad, that this Parliament is also failing the hard-working women and men of Ontario, their parents and their children.

The Deputy Speaker: Questions and comments?

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): In commenting on the member for Niagara Centre, I still haven't got an answer from the member for Niagara

Centre or from the other NDP members. Earlier this year, we had Bill 2, which rolled back the corporate tax cuts on big corporations by over $2 billion. The member for Niagara Centre and all his

NDP mates voted with the Conservatives not to roll back the corporate tax cuts. Today he's singing a different tune.

About our budget, one thing we're doing is transforming health care to make sure that there are 9,000 additional cataract operations for seniors. We're making

sure that 95,000 Ontarians now get home care who didn't get it before. That's what they're against. The NDP are against us increasing our contributions to nursing homes, $190 million to make sure

we make the nursing homes the best possible.

We are also giving Ontario seniors of low and modest income who are 65 and over -- they are tenants; they are homeowners -- an extra $85 million to increase

the Ontario property tax credit to $625 per household. That's another 33,000 households that are going to get the Ontario property tax credit. This is a huge investment in health care,

unprecedented in transforming it, whether it be for home care or nursing care. We're uploading public health to the provincial government -- they're against that; they want to keep it downloaded on

the property taxes -- to make sure we don't have another SARS outbreak.

They're about looking back in a rear-view mirror. We have to transform health care to protect public health care. The NDP just want to talk about it, but they

never want to do anything about it. This budget finally does something to make health care for everyone worthwhile and to preserve it. They're always looking for things to criticize. They never

mention the good, and there's a lot of good in this budget.

The Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. The member for Simcoe North.

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I'm pleased to join the debate this afternoon on the budget motion, and I want to compliment the member

from Niagara Centre on his speech. Once again, he's brought out a lot of very important points.

But I think what really is disappointing about this budget, more than anything else, is the fact that the citizens of Ontario didn't vote for a government that

was going to deliver a budget like this. They looked at a plan that Mr McGuinty talked about over and over again in this House. As Leader of the Opposition, he had a plan for hard-working Ontario

families, and of course that wasn't taking every penny out of their pockets. He never mentioned that one time. So the people of Ontario feel very, very betrayed with this budget.

That's the problem today. That's what's haunting Prime Minister Martin. I feel sorry for Mr Martin. He's away doing some business right now in Europe and with

the G8 nations. He's got the G8 summit to attend. But the fact of the matter is, he's been dragged down severely, and the number one thing that has dragged down Paul Martin is Dalton McGuinty.

We hear it in the ridings. Maybe the Liberal members are hearing nothing but positive things, but I'll tell you, I attended three D-Day functions on the

weekend alone, and the budget came up a minimum of probably 50 times during that time. I never initiated one of those discussions. I can tell you that the people of the province of Ontario are

extremely disappointed; they're extremely betrayed. They feel betrayed by the antics of Mr McGuinty. "This is a broken promise"; that's all they talk about, and that is Mr McGuinty's legacy. The

legacy of the Premier, Dalton McGuinty, is as the broken-promise Premier. That's what he'll go down as.

Ms Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): I'm very pleased to comment on the debate and the comments that were raised by my colleague from Niagara

Centre.

It's interesting that he put the budget within the context of one family in his riding and the tragedies that they faced. I think it was very telling, because

really this budget is a tragedy for the people of Ontario. It's a fiscal tragedy for the people of Ontario.

This government is, in its arrogance, lauding this budget as a positive thing. However, everyone I have spoken to in the riding of Hamilton East sees it as a

tragic thing. They see it as a tragic thing because it goes back and hurts the most vulnerable people. It hurts the people who are least able to pay and hits them in the pocketbook to a point that

they haven't seen in quite some time. People are being hurt by this budget.

The other big tragedy about it is the sheer arrogance of this government in refusing to recognize the pain that this budget is causing. It's a tragedy that

this government thinks that everyone can pay, that everyone has the ability to pay. Quite frankly, that's not the case. That's not the case in the riding of Niagara Centre, as Mr Kormos raised.

It's not the case in the riding of Hamilton East.

It's interesting, because I also attended many D-Day ceremonies yesterday in Hamilton, and I got the same response from person after person, senior after

senior, family member after family member. They were outraged by the tragedy of this budget. They were outraged by the fact that when we were in a by-election in Hamilton East, people were saying,

"We're hanging on by our fingernails." At that time, they were hanging on by their fingernails. Five days later, their fingers were cut off by this government. That's not acceptable, and I'll be

pleased to be making more comments about this budget as time goes on.

Mr Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): I'm pleased to rise this afternoon to make a few comments on the presentation by the member

from Niagara Centre, I believe it is. Regarding the letter that was just read from Tracey Cruise and the comments made that we don't care, I'm going to tell you that as Liberals we do care. That's

why we put a budget in place that will put more nurses in our hospitals, that will put in more doctors, that will expand community health centres, that will look into what's needed in our

schools.

As a retired educator, I saw the eight years of cuts and problems associated with the cuts to schools. I saw that. Having many family members in health care, I

saw the problems related to health care. That's why, when it was time to make a decision on if I would run to represent my riding here at Queen's Park, I had no hesitation in believing that I could

come here and make a difference. That's why, with this budget that we have, I know I can speak in support of what it talks about.

It does build on medicare, and it does give backbenchers -- I heard here that backbenchers can't have a say. I believe in Tracey Cruise's letter. I've received

letters. But you ought to know that I'm going to take those letters and I'm going to build on those, and our party will build on those letters and get the very best that we can get here in the

province. I will stand up for the people in my riding.

It is not a budget that's hurting the province, it's a budget that's building for municipalities, it's building for hospitals, it's building for those nurses

that I went to see last Friday, who heard that in my riding we are going to put in more full-time nurses.

So there are wonderful things in this budget, and I hope to have a chance to speak more on it later.

The Deputy Speaker: Reply?

Mr Kormos: Well, I say to the Liberals tha