Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 3 May 2005 (45th General Assembly, 2nd Session)
2005-05-03
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
May 3, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No.
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the
hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank; the hon. the Member for the
District of Burin-Placentia West; the hon. the Member for the District of
Bellevue; the hon. the Member for the District of Lewisporte, with leave; the
hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair; and the hon.
the Member for the District of Trinity North.
Will the House give leave to the hon. the Member for the District of
Lewisporte?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
The Chair calls the hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, today I recognize the congregation of the United
Church in Grand Bank who will celebrate, this coming weekend, the one hundred
and eighty-ninth anniversary of the founding of Methodism in Grand Bank and the
fortieth anniversary of the present church building.
Plans for the weekend include a celebration with the young people of the
congregation, a congregational banquet, and a special service of praise and
thanksgiving on Sunday with Reverend Wayne Blackwood as the guest preacher.
Reverend Blackwood served the congregation as minister from 1994-1997.
The history of Methodism and the United Church in Grand Bank has been
compiled by Clara and William Tibbo and is available in book form.
The first Methodist preacher to arrive in Grand Bank was Reverend Richard
Knight from England. He arrived on November 4, 1816 and was assigned to Fortune
Bay with his headquarters in Grand Bank.
The first issue that Reverend Knight had to contend with was finding a
suitable building in which to conduct services. Together with the parishioners
he built a new church. The congregation continued to grow and in 1846 a new
church was built to accommodate them, followed by another in 1876. The
cornerstone for the present, and fourth, church was laid on October 18, 1964 and
the official opening and dedication took place on May 9, 1965 by Reverend Ernest
Marshall Howse, Moderator of General Council.
To date, sixty-four ministers have served the congregation in Grand Bank. The
sixty-fifth minister to serve the congregation will be Reverend Lewis Crewe, who
will begin his duties July 1, 2005.
As they celebrate this milestone, the congregation looks back at their rich
history with pride and thanksgiving and remember: We are not alone; we live in
God's world.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It gives me great pleasure to stand in this House today and bring
congratulations and praise to a young gentleman from my district, Mr. Shannon
Francis of Burin Bay Arm. Shannon is a fifteen year old who displays an
exceptional talent in soccer, and at fifteen years of age Shannon has already
several accomplishments under his belt. He has played on the Newfoundland and
Labrador Canada Games team in Manchester, England, and is part of the pool of
players to be selected to represent this Province.
Mr. Speaker, Shannon continues to improve his skills, and trains with
national coaches in Halifax. This past week he was recognized for his
accomplishments, being awarded the Premier's Award for his talent and efforts.
I would ask all members of this House to join me in offering congratulations
to Shannon Francis.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue.
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate a talented student
from my district who has been honoured for her skills in public speaking.
Mr. Speaker, Denika Cox, a Grade 11 student at St. Joseph's All Grade
School in Terrenceville, has recently won a regional speak-off competition
sponsored by the Province's Lions Clubs.
Mr. Speaker, Denika's speech, which covered a very important issue of the
day, Video Lottery Terminal addictions, was good enough to take home first place
and win an opportunity to compete in the Atlantic speak-off which is taking
place May 14 in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Mr. Speaker, all who know Denika know of
her tremendous skills and know she will be a tremendous competitor at this
Atlantic competition.
Mr. Speaker, I congratulate Denika on winning this regional speak-off, and
ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in wishing her the best of
luck at the Atlantic speak-off taking place next week.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Lewisporte.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
First of all, let me thank my colleagues on both sides of the House for leave
to present the following statement.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the Winter Games Lanes Men's
Bowling League in Lewisporte who were crowned provincial champions at the
Newfoundland and Labrador Classified Five-Pin Bowling Championship on April 10.
This is the first time in approximately fifteen years that a team from
Lewisporte area has been victorious at the provincial championship.
My congratulations are also extended to the women's team from the
Lewisporte area who placed a formidable third in the same tournament.
The men's team consisted of Jamie Dawe, Newman Harris, Allan Miles, Chris
Sceviour and Wally Squires. They will be representing the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador at the Canadian Championships in Calgary on May 28 and
May 29.
On behalf of the residents of Lewisporte District, I extend congratulations
to the men's team on their recent victory and wish them continued success at
the upcoming Canadian Championships.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse
au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Last week I attended a volunteer dinner in my district honouring the many
people of the Labrador Straits who give their time and energy to keep the
services in their communities running.
Mr. Speaker, the hospital auxiliary was one of those groups that were
honoured for their service and fundraising efforts to the Forteau Health Centre
and the new Labrador-Grenfell Authority. The group, through fundraising,
assisted with the purchase of a Triage cardiac device reader, and also donated
$5,000 to the Grenfell Foundation. Mr. Gary Newell and Mr. John Budgell from the
Grenfell Hospital Board in St. Anthony were on hand to accept the contribution.
Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the Women's Auxiliary, Mrs. Ursella
Flynn and Mr. Cornelius Linstead and all the volunteers for the difference they
are making in the lives of many individuals and families.
I also want to acknowledge and offer thanks to all the volunteers in the
region for the valuable contributions they make.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On Saturday, April 30, I attended the Annual Awards Night of the Royal
Canadian Legion Branch 27 in Clarenville.
Mr. Speaker, the Clarenville Branch of the Royal Canadian Legion has been
serving veterans, their families, and the surrounding communities for fifty-four
years now. During this special awards night, presentations were made to a number
of Legion members, including Legionnaire of the Year to Mr. Jim Tilley, and an
honourary life membership was bestowed upon Mr. John Barry. Mr. Barry has served
the Royal Canadian Legion for a total of thirty-nine years and has been involved
in all aspects of Legion activities. Mr. Don Pelley, the Branch President,
described him as a true leader and a loyal and faithful Legionnaire who is very
deserving of a life membership.
Mr. Speaker, as MHAs we all have the privilege of presenting many awards to
special people in our districts. However, on Saturday night I was truly honoured
to be part of a very special presentation to a Second World War veteran, Mr.
Levi Stringer of Adeytown, who, due to an administrative error, did not receive
the appropriate recognition for his contribution in the war.
Mr. Speaker, I was truly honoured to have read the following statement to a
large gathering of comrades, family and friends. The statement reads: By virtue
of your wartime service, you have been found eligible to receive awards as
follows: 1939 to 1945 Star Award, and the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal and
Clasp 1939 to 1945 War Medals. I take great pleasure in presenting you with
these medals, along with the certificate of authority, number 9296, authorizing
you to wear these ribbons and awards.
Mr. Speaker, these medals were pinned on by Mr. Stringer's oldest and
youngest grandchildren, Kim Dimmer and Jason Stringer. This special moment was
shared with his wife, Alma; his sons, Oswald and Wesley and their families.
Mr. Speaker, 2005 has been designated the Year of the Veteran. A very fitting
time to publicly acknowledge Mr. Stringer's wartime service and send a strong
message to him and other veterans that our generation will not forget the
contribution they have made.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform hon. members about a
very important national campaign, Emergency Preparedness Week, which runs from
May 1 to May 7. This annual event is dedicated to raising awareness among
Canadians on the importance of preparing for potential emergencies.
Over the years we have personally seen the devastation from emergency
situations. In 2001, we were impacted by the terrorist attacks in the United
States and, as well, torrential rain from Hurricane Gabrielle caused extensive
flooding in many areas of St. John's. In 2003, water and ice quickly engulfed
one third of the Town of Badger. Also, in 2003, heavy rains caused extensive
damage in Corner Brook and many West Coast municipalities. Other areas of our
Province have also suffered from localized flooding or threat of flooding, most
recently in Steady Brook last December and parts of the Burin Peninsula last
month.
Mr. Speaker, emergency preparedness begins with the individual. Each and
every one of us must be prepared in the event of an emergency situation. We are
all responsible for emergency preparedness whether it is on a municipal,
provincial or federal level. The effects of disaster, whether natural or
human-caused, can greatly reduce and impact the basic necessitates of life.
Access to communication, transportation, food, clean water, finances, education,
health care, housing and employment can all be affected during a disaster
situation.
Although we cannot always protect ourselves when an emergency situation
arises, we can be better prepared for it. There are three simple steps we should
all take to help us be prepared. First, we should all keep an emergency supply
kit in our homes and cars. Second, we should also make a family emergency plan
so that everyone will know what to do and how to contact each other in an
emergency. Last, we should learn about past disasters that have happened where
we live and work so that we can be ready if they happen again.
I would also encourage municipalities in Newfoundland and Labrador to ensure
that their emergency plans are up to date. For those municipalities which do not
yet have emergency plans, I would encourage them to develop their plans as soon
as possible. We have seen how effective emergency plans can be from the recent
EMCO fire in Mount Pearl.
Mr. Speaker, I encourage everyone to visit the Emergency Preparedness Web
site at www.EPweek.ca
to learn how you can be better prepared in the event of a disaster.
Knowing the risk you face is the first step to being prepared. It is up to
each of us to learn about and prepare for potential emergencies. Prepare now!
Learn now!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to thank the minister for an advanced copy of the statement. I well
remember in 2001, Mr. Speaker, when we had the terrorist attack on the Twin
Towers in New York City. Being Minister of Municipal Affairs at that time and
the Minister Responsible for EMO, quickly we soon realized that in the City of
St. John's and surrounding municipalities that the emergency plan that was in
place soon kicked in and it was just astronomical the work that was done.
I can also remember, of course, right on the heels of that was Gabrielle here
in St. John's, tremendous flooding. Then compounded on top of that, of course,
was a major flood in Badger. All of these three gave us, the emergency groups in
the Province along with government, a tremendous advantage in being able to
prepare for those that would come in the future. I know there was a successful
audit done at the end of the 2001 terrorist attack, and I am sure that it was
done on Badger, and also done for Gabrielle as well.
I agree with the minister, the emergency begins with us, as individuals, but
then after we are somewhat prepared, then it is incumbent upon the municipality,
it is incumbent upon the Province and incumbent upon the country as a whole to
put practice into place such that when these disasters occur, whether they are
planned or natural, whatever the case might be, then we are well prepared for
it. The last four words, I think, really sums it up very well: Prepare now!
Learn how!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement. I guess we can
all agree that the most important thing to be able to respond to an emergency is
to plan in the event of knowing what to do. These plans in our community should
also be made public so that the public in the different communities around our
Province would know how to respond and know what was going on in the event of
something happening.
Mr. Speaker, I recall in 1982, January 18, in Labrador West, we had an
emergency situation during a storm with a loss of power where temperatures went
below minus 130, then the devices that were recording temperatures froze up. So
we really do not know how cold it went to, but the Armed Forces were on alert to
evacuate the entire community. The trailer court at the time, with more than
2,000 people, were moved down to the schools and the hospitals and other
buildings in town that had heat. The lack of preparation at the time led to a
bit of chaos.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's allotted time has expired.
MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.
MR. COLLINS: The lack of preparedness at that time led to a bit of chaos
for awhile. So it is important that plans are put in place, but it is equally as
important that the public are aware of these plans and how they will be carried
out.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.
The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in recognition of the North American
Occupational Safety and Health Week, or NAOSH week as it is referred to
internationally.
This is a week set aside every May in Canada, the United States and Mexico to
promote awareness of the importance of safe and healthy workplaces.
Mr. Speaker, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians should all be particularly
proud of this international celebration to promote workplace safety. What
started out as a local, week-long initiative here in St. John's nearly twenty
years ago has grown into the international event we know today.
The Canadian Society of Safety Engineers are the champions of NAOSH week and
it was here with the local
Chapter of this society that NAOSH week was born.
This is a testament to the outstanding contributions Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians have made, and continue to make, in the field of workplace safety
and in many other fields of expertise around the world.
This year, Mr. Speaker, the theme for NAOSH week is, "EQUIP, EDUCATE
and EMPOWER" .
This theme highlights the importance of using the proper tools for the task
at hand, making sure workers have the right knowledge to do the task safely and
that they have the commitment to work safely every day.
Mr. Speaker, initiatives such as NAOSH week allow us to reflect on our own
workplace practices and to renew our commitment to working safely every day.
This week, across our Province and across North America, celebrations and
activities will be occurring in workplaces large and small to promote safe work
practices. I encourage everyone to use this week to do something special in
their workplace to renew their resolve to improving workplace safety.
Together, government, employers and employees can make Newfoundland and
Labrador a safe and a productive place to work.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for the advance copy of her statement.
We, too, the official Opposition, congratulate the local
chapter of the
Canadian Society for Safety Engineers for this great initiative. Again, as the
minister said, this is a real testimony to the outstanding contributions of
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, considering twenty years later that this event
has become international in scope. I can only encourage the society to continue
on with this great initiative and promote safety in our workplaces.
Already this week, unfortunately, has been marred. The Community of Carbonear
has lost a native son, a twenty-five year old young man, in an industrial
accident in Alberta. Mr. Shawn O'Keefe has succumbed to injuries in Leduc,
Alberta. The whole community is grieving the loss of this young man.
Unfortunately, it has marred NAOSH week for us but it also emphasizes the
importance that this international initiative that was brought forward by the
society of engineers here in Newfoundland and Labrador be continued and
promoted, and I encourage everyone to participate and do more for occupational
health and safety.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We, too, would like to congratulate the Canadian Society of Safety Engineers,
particularly the local
chapter in our Province, for their work in this area. It
is important, Mr. Speaker, that occupational health and safety is a worldwide
concern, not just provincially, nationally, or in North America.
Our fishing industry and our mining industry, for years, have seen more than
their share of tragedies because of a lack of occupational health and safety
measures being in place. It is important to acknowledge and note that we need to
do more aggressive work on occupational health and safety on a national and
international level, when we look at the mining operations in China where people
are dying every day, in Siberia and places that do not have standards set that
protect workers. We have seen our own in this country, Mr. Speaker, with Westray.
It is time that this issue of occupational health and safety is made an
international concern and that we are in a position to take a leading role in
that.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased to inform Members of the House of Assembly that on Friday past
the provincial government officially signed a Memorandum of Understanding with
the federal government to address climate change.
Climate change is a challenging environmental issue. It is an issue that this
Province does not take lightly. We are committed to taking action on climate
change and doing our part to create a cleaner, healthier environment and improve
the quality of life for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
Mr. Speaker, government's commitment to address climate change was recently
demonstrated in Budget 2005 when $300,000 was announced for climate change
initiatives. Signing an MOU with the federal government is another important
step forward that demonstrates our continued commitment to address climate
change and to work with the federal government on this issue.
The MOU allows the provincial and federal governments to work co-operatively
in developing effective solutions to address climate change, as well as
identifying potential opportunities, such as the development of hydroelectricity
and wind power. Both of these would have positive economic benefits for the
Province.
Mr. Speaker, the MOU outlines general principles, areas of mutual concern,
and co-operative initiatives to address climate change. Priority areas in the
MOU include reviewing the Lower Churchill project as a potential contributor to
achieving national and provincial climate change objectives, reducing greenhouse
gas emissions through renewable and alternative energy development and energy
management and efficiency in government facilities and operations, research and
development on climate change impacts and adaptation strategies, as well as
increasing public awareness and education on climate change.
Mr. Speaker, besides addressing climate change through the MOU, government is
also committed to a provincial Climate Change Action Plan. We are currently
finalizing our action plan, which will outline a path forward in reducing
greenhouse gas emissions and adapting to the potential impacts of climate
change.
Mr. Speaker, government is committed to making honest efforts toward
meaningful improvement in our air quality and in the reduction of greenhouse gas
emissions. Safeguarding our environment is a priority for us. We will continue
to take action to achieve a healthier environment through initiatives
highlighted in the MOU as well as our own provincial Climate Change Action Plan.
Mr. Speaker, the MOU we have signed with the federal government is another
clear demonstration that Newfoundland and Labrador is serious about addressing
climate change, and we look forward to a productive working relationship with
our federal colleagues on this important issue. Through the MOU, we will bring
together innovative ideas to help create a cleaner environment while also
helping to ensure a strong and sustainable economy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the hon. minister for an advance copy of his statement.
What we see here today is much ado about nothing. A Memorandum of
Understanding does not really mean very much. I am looking forward to the
minister's memorandum of action, because this minister has created nothing
within the department since he became the minister. I anticipated today, when he
signed this agreement, that there would be an agreement that we would reduce the
emissions at the Holyrood generating plant.
At the rate this government is going in Newfoundland and Labrador, we won't
have to worry about the climate because there will be nobody here.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I am glad we are hearing something from this
government on climate change, but I would be a lot happier if he were tabling a
copy of the Memorandum of Understanding to see what commitments have actually
been made.
We have a terrible record in this Province on this issue. This government,
when in Opposition, were not supportive of the Kyoto Accord which was ratified
more than two years ago. Last December we got an F from the Canadian Energy
Efficiency Alliance, which identified the Holyrood generating station as one of
the top five polluters in Canada when it comes to CO 2 emissions, so
we have a long way to go, Mr. Speaker. They have been dragging their heels on
this issue. We have not seen their Climate Change Action Plan, and we would like
to see some specifics following up on any commitments that have been made. So we
look forward to seeing that happen.
I will note that the new arrangement made for the federal Budget by the
federal NDP sees some money available for a new program to provide energy
efficiency for low-income housing. I hope this government adopts that as one of
their plans and give Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro a mandate to start
promoting conservation and using these programs to cut down on energy use in the
Province and greenhouse gases that go with it.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.
Oral Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have a serious situation looming in Grand Falls-Windsor and
indeed, all of Central Newfoundland, since Abitibi Consolidated made their
recent announcement relating to its operations in this Province. They have
stated their intention to close number seven paper machine in Grand
Falls-Windsor. We know the Minister of Natural Resources met with the company on
December 15, and we know that the Premier and the minister met with the company
on April 16.
Mr. Speaker, given these recent meetings with the company, did the minister
have any advance notice of this decision? If so, what action did the minister
take to try to prevent this announcement last week?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
First of all - I will answer the member's question in a moment - we are
extremely disappointed with the decision that Abitibi took. Not only did we meet
with the company at various points over the last several years, the member
knows, the community of Grand Falls-Windsor and surrounding areas know, the
community of Stephenville knows, the unions associated with both paper companies
know the position of government. In this House our position was laid out
clearly.
First of all, the only advance notice that we had of the decision came 9:30
the night before, and that was a courtesy call provided to me by the
Vice-President of the company, Mr. Paul Planet in advance of, and I guess
releasing it the next day for the stock markets and security exchanges. Having
said that, let me be very clear, and we were clear in this House, that with
respect to Abitibi and its operations in Grand Falls, this government will
enforce - make no mistake about that - this government will and intends to
enforce the spirit and intention of Bill 27, which is simply this: If Abitibi
moves to close down number seven paper machine, we will revoke the licences
associated with Abitibi.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It appears that communications were one way.
Mr. Speaker, is this government going to accept this decision as just another
business case and allow Abitibi to do whatever they want? Just like in Harbour
Breton, the company depends on access to resources owned by the people of this
Province. In this case, the provincial government has complete jurisdiction over
access to the resource.
Mr. Speaker, this government is on record as saying they intend to enforce
the provisions of Bill 27, brought in by the previous Liberal government, which
gives government the power to link a two-machine operation to wood access. Will
you now insist the company live up to this legislation and keep the profitable
number seven paper machine - as indicated by the mill manager last week - in
operation in Grand Falls-Windsor?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have been consistent. I answered them. I apologize for
answering the second question that the member was going to ask in my first
response.
Let's be clear on this, and everyone needs to understand it, this is a
serious situation facing Central Newfoundland and Labrador, affecting about
thirty-four communities that could potentially involve 220 people laid off. This
is extremely serious, and I understand that the member knows how serious it is.
Let there be no mistake about it, before Abitibi made their decision known to
government and to the public, through this Legislature, privately to them, we
have been on the record empathically saying that Bill 27, the penalty provisions
associated with that bill - in other words, if Abitibi fails to live up to
operating a two-machine operation near production levels for the previous three
years, before that legislation came into effect, the moment they decide to close
number seven will be the moment that we decide to revoke the licences which
represent 60 per cent of Abitibi's wood supply. They will not get it directly
through the front door and we will not create a situation to give it to them in
the backdoor either, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, actually, if this goes ahead it will affect
anywhere from thirty to forty-seven communities in Central Newfoundland.
Mr. Speaker, the decision related to the closure of number seven paper
machine would mean the loss of up to 150 direct jobs in our mill in Grand
Falls-Windsor and close to the same number in the woodland operations. These are
jobs that are in rural Newfoundland. Mr. Speaker, you are talking about the loss
of close to 300 jobs, not counting the indirect jobs in communities in Central
Newfoundland. Is this going to be another example of this government washing its
hands of rural areas of our Province? That is what I want your commitment on
today, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have been complimented by the local community leadership in
Central Newfoundland for the stand that we have taken. The local unions
associated with it, and the leadership of those unions, have supported the stand
that we have taken.
I can assure the member, as I have privately, and I will do it again publicly
today, that with respect to Bill 27 it is government's intention - it was, it
is, and it will be government's intention - to enforce the law of this
Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are for the Acting Minister of Health and Community
Services.
Government has set a precedent by overriding the responsibilities of the
Western health board, exercising its authority in dismissing recommendations of
the Hay report simply because, Mr. Speaker, it was in the best interest of
political colleagues on that day.
The media editorial states: It is obvious that the government, the provincial
government, and not the health authorities, are pulling the strings with respect
to this report.
You cannot have it both ways, I say. I ask the minister today to do the same
for the people on the Northern Peninsula, the people in Southern Labrador, and
exercise your authority, throw out the controversial recommendations in the
HayGroup report.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Minister of Health and Community
Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I was asked that question in the House, in Estimates, and I will answer it
again here. We are going to work with the board. I spoke with the Chair of the
Western board, and we worked with the Regional Integrated Health Authorities to
move forward, in effect, the best practice and best service and most efficiently
delivered for the people of the Labrador-Grenfell board, as we will with any
board in the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, this government is setting a double standard as it
relates to health care in this Province. Last week, the Member for St. George's-Stephenville
East cited women's health as the reason to maintain full obstetrical services
in her own district. The Mayor of St. Anthony is quoted in the media, saying
that St. Anthony wants the same treatment. The minister knows that. She talked
to him on the telephone last week. So, why isn't she pushing the envelope for
the women of the Northern Peninsula, the women of Southern Labrador, and
committing to maintaining full obstetrical and gynecology services at Dr.
Charles S. Curtis Memorial Hospital in St. Anthony?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Minister of Health and Community
Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We are going to work with the boards to deliver service to all people of the
Province regardless of gender. This year's Budget saw one of the largest
infusions, $113 million extra, into health care in this Province. We saw the
largest single infusion in the history of our Province in public health in this
year's Budget, and we are going to deliver the health care services to the
people regardless of gender. We are going to work to deal with any issues unique
to gender. We will deal with the boards in carrying out and effecting the best
practice and the best service for the people in our Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, I should be asking my questions to the
Member for The Straits & White Bay North. Perhaps the member can tell me why
he is accepting a double standard in his district as opposed to what is
happening on the West Coast of Newfoundland.
Mr. Speaker, the HayGroup also recommended cutting physicians at the Forteau
Health Centre and referring the 3,000 residents of the Labrador Straits to the
Blanc Sablon Hospital in the Province of Quebec. This recommendation, Mr.
Speaker, is in no way justified in improving health care in that particular
area.
I ask the minister to tell the people of Southern Labrador today that the
recommendation in the HayGroup report, which will force them to go to another
province to seek health care, will be thrown out and he will make sure that it
is done.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Acting Minister of Health and Community
Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The member knows full well that the Hay report was commissioned on the
Grenfell. Since that, the Regional Integrated Health Authorities take in the
Labrador-Grenfell region. There is a new dynamic, and the new board in that area
will work with the department to effect the best service. We are going to focus
on the best outcomes and the best delivery of service for the people in
Labrador, people on this Island here, regardless of where they live in this
Province. That is what we are committed to, and we are going to focus on the
quality of service that people are getting.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: .Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, over the weekend and again last night, government has been
installing numerous security cameras both inside and outside the Confederation
Building. There have been reports to our office that there have been cameras
installed on the top of the flagpoles in the parking lot, and that fibre optic
cables are streaming pictures directly to the offices of the Royal Newfoundland
Constabulary.
I ask the Minister of Transportation and Works: Can he confirm that these new
security measures are in place, and if there are other new security measures
that we may not yet be aware of?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and
Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, what I can confirm is that there is a committee
of officials that advise us on security matters related to public buildings,
including this building. That committee has representation from my department,
from the Department of Justice, and from security experts -
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes or no?
MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I will answer the question in my own way. The
member need not get hot under the collar.
I cannot confirm whether cameras have been installed on top of flagpoles or
out in the parking lot, or anything of that nature. That part of the question I
will take under advisement. Generally speaking, there have been some new
security measures.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate the undertaking to take it under advisement and get the answers
for us.
Mr. Speaker, each of these new security devices - the extra Royal
Newfoundland Constabulary officers being stationed constantly at the
Confederation Building, and the overtime of security officials - surely must be
a costly undertaking. I ask the minister: Could he please advise this House what
the associated cost of these additional security features will be to the
taxpayers of this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and
Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, it is quite common in our regular budget
process that we provide for overtime and additional help when it is needed
during the course of the fiscal year. If we go beyond the present budgetary
allocations then, of course, the House will be advised of that matter at the
appropriate time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I suggest he had better start advising the House, because in the Estimates
there were no allocations for additional security measures.
Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that this government seems to be caught up in
a police state mentality and wants to secretly monitor the actions of innocent
people who might never break the law. They should instead be addressing the real
issue of production quotas so that these protests will no longer be necessary.
I ask the minister: Wouldn't it be a better and more acceptable and
cost-effective solution if the government just removed the production quotas
from the table until consultations with the fish harvesters take place, as was
promised in writing by the government?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the two issues are unrelated. We have heard -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the minister.
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the issue of raw material sharing is an issue that the decision
was made on earlier this year, after significant discussion internally in
Cabinet and a significant evaluation of reports that government had been
provided with over the past number of years.
Mr. Speaker, we had heard the fishermen's union say that they were
interested in a compromise. I believe, and I think that everybody can see that
the government made a significant offer on Friday past to move this back from a
two-year pilot project to a one-year pilot project with a significant oversight
committee that would deal with the management of the system during the season
and make a determination as to where we go in 2005 and beyond. Mr. Speaker, that
is what comprise is about, not capitulation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I guess there is not much credibility to any answer the minister is going to
give, if he wants us to believe that all the security we see in this building
today, and have for the last three weeks, has nothing to do with the production
quotas, that it was planned anyway by the government.
Mr. Speaker, with respect directly to the crab fishery, there has been much
said in the last two months, since the announcement on March 4. I believe we
need to set the record straight, and I will ask the minister to answer a few
questions to avoid any confusion.
I ask the Minister of Fisheries: Will he confirm that the Dunne report stated
that government should have the support of 75 per cent of processors before
implementing production quotas, yes or no?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The answer is no. The Dunne report said that government should proceed if
there is 75 per cent, it didn't say we should not proceed if there is not.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad I wasn't recognized before, because I was laughing that hard I
wouldn't be able to get my question out. You must have gotten a call from
Houston, I would say, to suggest that answer.
Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Fisheries now confirm and admit that there
is no longer 75 per cent support amongst processors for this ill-advised scheme,
yes or no?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that there probably is 75 per cent. We
understand that Quinlan's have pulled out of ASP, we understand that Daley's
have pulled out of ASP, and we also understand that they still support the
concept of Raw Material Sharing, although maybe not exactly some of the
requirements we would like to see under Raw Material Sharing, such as disclosure
of invoices, for example.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is not getting any clearer, that I can see, but I will continue on.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Fisheries: Did the Dunne report recommend
that there be consultation with fish harvesters before moving forward with any
production quotas, yes or no?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Dunne report said that any proposal on Raw Material Sharing,
the implementation of any Raw Material Sharing system, should deal with the
legitimate and substantive and reasonable concerns of fish harvesters and plant
workers. That, Mr. Speaker, on March 2, was what we were trying to do when we
rolled out our plan, when we identified changes to the Fishing Industry
Collective Bargaining Act, when we identified the requirement for disclosure of
sales invoices, when we identified a freeze on permanent transfers of shares,
when we identified a two-year pilot project to work out the remainder of the
issues before moving to a permanent system, if a permanent system ever came into
being, Mr. Speaker. That is what the Dunne report said. The Dunne report said
that we should deal with those concerns. It did not say anything about seeking
an agreement on all of this, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I did not use the word agreement. I asked if it said there should be
consultation. I will give him the answer. Yes, it did say there should be
consultation.
Let's see him try to deflect from this one. I ask the Minister of
Fisheries, did he personally, in writing, promise on April 21, 2004 - some four
months, almost, after they accepted the Dunne report - to consult with fish
harvesters to lead the consultation before implementing any production quotas?
Yes or no?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, I did. As I have indicated on many occasions before, I did
say that. And, no, Mr. Speaker, we did not have the debate that we had indicated
we would have in the fall of the year. We did not have the debate.
Mr. Speaker, when we looked at the situation this winter we determined that
the best thing to do was make the decision on whether we were going to have raw
material sharing or not. Then when we rolled it out on March 2, we indicated to
all in the industry that we were prepared to take the time from then until the
fishery opened to try and deal with the concerns that people might have in the
implementation of the system and work with that as we move forward with the
pilot project.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I ask the minister then, now that he has confirmed that he did not have the
consultation that he promised, can he advise the House, and the people of the
Province, what new information came to light to make him break his word in
writing to the fish harvesters that he would consult with them?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, April 21 was when we were trying to get a crab fishery going.
Mr. Speaker, I can tell you, as I said in a press conference on Friday, when we
were trying to get the shrimp fishery straightened out last year we had an
undertaking that we were trying to bring together the Gregory/Broderick Report.
When that was not coming together we tried to put together an auction. When
people got so opposed to that, that they wanted to go back to the
Gregory/Broderick Report, we parked that. When people could not agree after
there was a price settled in Final Offer Selection - when people could not agree
on the opening of the fishery, Mr. Speaker, and it remained tied up for another
three weeks, they came back to me and asked me if I would go back and implement
the auction, which we subsequently tried to do and spent $100,000 developing it.
Two days before we were ready to roll out the auction, both parties agreed to a
collective agreement. Both parties agreed to the implementation of the
Gregory/Broderick Report after they asked us to do something completely
different.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
So you can understand why he is not trusted this year. He duped them last
year with a promise to consult and then changed his mind.
Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of Fisheries agree with former Progressive
Conservation Cabinet Minister, Tom Hickey, now President of the Newfoundland and
Labrador First Party, who has said publicly, and his advice to the government -
that he supports, by the way: is that the production quota system should be
taken off the table. Consultations should take place as promised in writing and
then, and only then, after consultations take place should the government
possibly try a new system next year. Does he agree with his supporter, Mr.
Hickey, or not?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
No, Mr. Speaker, I do not agree with that. We made a move on Friday past and
we figured it was a compromise, a move that will see - let's look at what we
are talking about now - a three-month pilot project that essentially means, for
the vast majority of the fish harvesters in this Province, eight to ten trips on
crab this year; twenty to twenty-five days on the water under a raw material
sharing system with a committee, with an independent Chair, agreed to by all
parties, with representation from fishermen and plant workers, representation
from processors and representation from government, to determine what should
happen after the 2005 season and beyond.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Does the minister agree with former Progressive Conservation Fisheries
Minister, Mr. Jim Morgan, who has said - he is currently, by the way, the
President of the Newfoundland and Labrador Rural Rights and Boat Owners
Association - that the solution now is: Take the production quota system off the
table, do the consultations that were promised in writing, then and only then,
try a system in the crab fishery. Does he agree with Mr. Morgan?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
No, Mr. Speaker, I do not agree with Mr. Morgan either, and before he gets a
chance to ask, I do not agree with Mr. Efford. And I do not agree with the kind
of suggestions that get made from the other side of the floor when they
continually say: Stall, in the face of opposition, and shove it out to another
study.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me ask one more question. Does the minister agree with his colleague
sitting just to his right, the MHA for Placentia & St. Mary's, the former
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Education - he is not anymore - that
the production quota system should be taken off the table, they should do the
consultation as he promised in writing and then maybe try this system in the
future? Yes or no?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: No, Mr. Speaker, I do not, but I will tell you who I do agree
with. I do agree with Eddie Fillier, the Mayor of Englee, who is a strong
supporter of that party, who thinks that the production quota should be tried. I
do agree with Holly Reeves who thinks it should be tried. I agree with a good
many people in Newfoundland and Labrador who believe that a three-month pilot
project -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. TAYLOR: - on raw material sharing, with an independent committee to
determine what happens, is a very fair and reasonable compromise.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the government, the minister and the Premier have put a lot of
faith in Mr. Dunne's report. I ask the minister: Will he call Mr. Dunne today
and ask him what his recommendation would be to try to get the crab fishery
started today's date, May 3, 2005? Will he call him today and ask him what he
would recommend to the government at this very moment?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I do not mind calling Mr. Dunne and asking him for his
suggestions. I can tell you, we have been talking to Mr. Dunne over the past
couple of months trying to see if he could help facilitate the moving forward of
this. Mr. Dunne, as I recall then, was tangled up in some other work for the
Department of Fisheries and Oceans -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. TAYLOR: - and has no interest in this. So, Mr. Speaker, if he wants
to talk to Mr. Dunne, he can talk to Mr. Dunne. We received his report on
December 15. We took it under advisement. We made a determination on what should
be done with it and on Friday past we offered a very suitable compromise, a very
fair compromise on raw material sharing that will see the people in this
Province, the harvesters of this Province, fish for eight to ten trips; eight to
ten trips under a raw material sharing system lasting for about three months,
from right now until the end of the season, and that is what we stand by.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
Mr. Speaker, is the minister now convinced, as a result of the demonstration
by 5,000 people yesterday, that the fish harvesters of this Province are not
supportive of his plans for raw material sharing or production plant quotas?
Secondly, why does he consider a compromise, to shove down their throats a
totally unacceptable plan for one season instead of two seasons? If that his
idea of a compromise, Mr. Speaker, it is no wonder this dispute is not resolved.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in the absence of viable alternatives, of which none have come
forward in the past number of years, there was one alternative that I put
forward last year to raw material sharing when there was great opposition in the
industry to implementing it in the shrimp fishery. I proposed that we implement
an auction; an auction which, by the way, was recommended by David Vardy back in
1997-1998 when the Final Offer Selection study was done, which was never, ever
implemented, never, ever acted upon.
We spent $150,000 last year in shrimp and crab, trying to implement an
auction. There is no auction going in this industry thus far, Mr. Speaker. There
were many meetings and there was a great deal of discussion and a great deal of
facilitation to try to bring an auction to pass.
Mr. Speaker, in the absence of a viable alternative, we are standing by the
raw material sharing system.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The minister should recall that an auction system was one of the systems that
he said he was prepared to discuss and consult with fish harvesters on, in his
letters last spring.
Mr. Speaker, will the minister not admit and acknowledge that his proposal
cannot work and will not work without the co-operation of the fish harvesters of
this Province? Will he not acknowledge that here today and try to find a
solution that involves them, inside of shoving something down their throats?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, and after April 21 last spring, when I indicated that we
were prepared to discuss raw material sharing and an auction and options such as
that, Mr. Speaker, as I just said, we spent $150,000 trying to implement an
auction in a shrimp fishery based on a recommendation of certain people in the
industry. We spent $50,000 after that, Mr. Speaker, trying to develop it for the
cod fishery in 3Ps, with consultation with the FFAW, processors working with the
Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and do we have an auction in place yet?
No, Mr. Speaker, we do not.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is also for the Minister of Fisheries.
The minister just mentioned Englee. For two weeks I have been trying to get
an answer from the minister if the plant in Englee will be open for crab this
year, so I ask him: Will the plant in Englee be processing crab in this season?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure, if he has had any knowledge of what happened in
Englee last year, when Occupational Health and Safety closed down the operation,
he would probably know the condition of the plant - probably the same condition,
or very similar to the condition that it was in when he was the Minister of
Fisheries and Aquaculture, when the FFAW or a certain representative of the FFAW
tried to negotiate an agreement between St. Anthony and Ramea for the transfer
of a crab licence that he subsequently denied.
Mr. Speaker, the situation in Englee is very much the same now as it was
then. There is a footing that was poured at the time when he was minister, and
nothing has happened with it since.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I take it the answer to that question is no.
Mr. Speaker, three years ago, when I attempted to transfer a crab licence
from Ramea to St. Anthony, all the processors and the plant workers were
vehemently opposed to it. In fact, they stood on the steps of Confederation
Building, and amongst the crowd that assembled there were most of his colleagues
at the time.
I ask the minister: What have you given the processors around this Province
to buy their silence on the issuing of a crab licence to St. Anthony?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
That does not even warrant a response, anything as low as that, anything that
is as low, any comments that are as low as that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I will say this: The people of Englee and the
Mayor of Englee, for example, support this just as I support it, because it is a
lasting solution for the fishing industry in Newfoundland and Labrador if it
works as we think it will, and not, Mr. Speaker, in the short term (inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The time for Question Period has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I want to table the report of the Social
Services Committee.
Mr. Speaker, the Social Services Committee have considered the matters to
them referred and have approved, without amendment, the following heads of
expenditure: Education; Health and Community Services; Justice; Municipal and
Provincial Affairs; Human Resources, Labour and Employment; and Newfoundland and
Labrador Housing Corporation.
MR. SPEAKER: When shall this report be received?
MR. E. BYRNE: Later today, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Later today.
Tabling of Documents.
Notices of Motion.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a couple of notices.
First of all, I want to give notice - and this is with the concurrence of the
Opposition House Leader and I would hope the Leader of the NDP - that tomorrow's
Private Members' Day we would be debating the resolution brought forward by
the Member for Trinity North dealing with war veterans.
I believe that, on our next Private Members' Day, when we give notice, we
will be dealing with the notice as brought forward by the Member for Gander
dealing with the weather station.
A further notice, Mr. Speaker, that not on tomorrow but on Thursday - where
tomorrow is Private Members' Day - in accordance with Standing Order 11, I
will now serve notice that the House not close at 5:30 p.m. nor at 10:00 p.m.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motions.
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Newfoundland
and Labrador. This petition is against the actions of this government regarding
what they are doing with the raw material sharing system of this Province, the
imposition that they are making. These people are asking the government to stop,
look at this, take off their hobnailed boots, and stop treating them like
criminals because they are trying to protest and get their own views across.
Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province have a right to speak. They have a
right to speak through us here on the floor, and I have been asked to present
this petition and ask the government to stop.
The Premier had a chance on Friday, when he said that he was willing to take
a year off his two-year plan. If he wanted to do that, and he wanted to be
effective in that, he would have taken the first year off, if he wanted to do
that. If he was acting in good faith, he would have gotten on open line with
Bill Rowe on Friday afternoon and said: Look, I will hold out an olive branch
here, if the fishermen will go back to work, go back to their boats, get the
plant workers back in their plants, providing honest income for their families.
That is all these people are asking for. The Premier had that opportunity,
but what did he do? He took the second year off. That is too ridiculous to talk
about. If you are taking a year off, take the first year, allow some breathing
space for the people to get consulted and to allow them to get their minds
around what the Premier and the Minister of Fisheries are trying to do.
I would like to go back to say that it is the Premier - because the Minister
of Fisheries, in his comments here today, in his answers, clearly does not know
where he is going because he is dancing around. He is like a farmer out in the
cow field in the nighttime, stepping so lightly and so carefully.
Mr. Speaker, the Dunne report that the minister speaks of, says, implement
this with a minimum of 75 per cent of the processors.
With the withdrawal of Daley's on Friday afternoon, we are down now to
about 50 per cent of the processors involved in this.
AN HON. MEMBER: And none of the harvesters.
MR. SWEENEY: And none of the harvesters. Not a harvester in this Province
have I spoken with or heard from who has agreed to this. This is a pure
draconian measure. I cannot believe it.
To make matters worse, when somebody stands up and says to the Premier: Mr.
Premier, I think you are wrong, let's talk about this. No, sir, not a chance.
What does he do? Locks up the building, brings out the police, all kinds of
false accusations - spitting from the galleries and everything else. Well, I
have sat here in this House and I have not been spit on, and I have not seen
anybody over there spit on. It is totally ridiculous, trying to make criminals
out of the honest, good, hard-working people of this Province.
AN HON. MEMBER: Fires an MHA because he dares speak out.
MR. SWEENEY: Fires an MHA from his own party because he dares speak out.
Mr. Speaker, this stuff is barbaric. It goes back to the days -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's allotted time has expired.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) guts enough over there to speak up. Danny's
puppets.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's allotted time has expired.
MR. SWEENEY: By leave?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave to conclude?
AN HON. MEMBER: No.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been denied.
Further petitions?
The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, rise today to present a petition on behalf of the harvesters and the
plant workers in this Province who are calling upon the government to withdraw
this production quota plan from the table, allow them to go back to work on the
water and in the fish plants around this Province, and only implement the quota
system if and when the harvesters of this Province agree to it.
Mr. Speaker, I spoke here last week, wondering aloud, about why the Minister
of Fisheries would try to impose a production quota upon the harvesters of this
Province against their will. I couldn't believe that an individual who took
great pride in the fact that he was a fisherman himself, in the fact that he was
a member of the FFAW, that he was an employee of the FFAW, and he spoke so
proudly about being a member of this organization, that yet he turned his back
on the same people he so proudly worked for just a few short years ago.
Mr. Speaker, I have wondered and I have listened for the past three weeks and
I have come to the realization that it is not the Minister of Fisheries, the
former member of the FFAW, who is making this decision. It is the Premier of the
Province who is making this decision, and he is telling the Minister of
Fisheries, you carry out this decision or you take a hike, like he did to the
Member representing St. Mary's.
Mr. Speaker, the problem we have, and the problem that is still on the table,
is that the Premier doesn't know anything about the fishery. Absolutely
nothing! Not only that, Mr. Speaker, but he has no respect - absolutely no
respect! - for those involved in that industry. The Premier of this Province
came out of a boardroom where he worked all his life and that is the kind of a
province he wants to run, somewhere where he looks across the table from his
employees and says: You do as I do, or there is the door. Mr. Speaker, he has no
respect - absolutely no respect! - for the people of this Province who make a
living using their hands, like the harvesters and the plant workers in this
Province. He has no respect whatsoever for them because they don't wear a
shirt and tie and they don't sit in a boardroom. The ones he has respect for
in the fishery, I say to members opposite, are the processors, because you will
find those in the boardrooms in St. John's and you will find them on the
cocktail circuit with their shirts and ties and their suits.
Mr. Speaker, I say to the members opposite - in fact, I beg those, especially
those who live in rural districts - that you take the lead from the Member who
represents St. Mary's, take the lead and stand up to this Premier and say:
Premier, I too have constituents who are involved in this fishery and they
deserve the same respect as the people who hang out in the boardrooms of this
Province. So, I beg you, to follow the lead of the Member for St. Mary's and
do what is right so that the people of this Province - two months they have been
fighting now against this production scheme and for two months you people have
sat silently on the opposite side of the floor not speaking for a soul. I say do
the right thing, remove it from the table and let the people go out and work!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's allotted time has expired.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
[Comments in the gallery]
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I am asking the visitors in the gallery to respect the Chair and the House.
[Comments from the gallery]
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair wishes to advise visitors to the gallery that they should not show
approval or disapproval for anything that is said on the floor of the House. We
certainly welcome you to visit our Chamber. We wish you to stay as long as you
wish, however, we have to ask you for your co-operation. The Chair must assure
that Parliament functions and it functions properly.
Further petitions.
The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I stand today, Mr. Speaker, to present yet another petition on behalf of the
harvesters, the plant workers, and yes, now even the businesspeople in my
district who are beginning to speak out because they are feeling the economic
crunch that is coming due to the plans that are taking place with this
production quota.
Mr. Speaker, I want to go back to comments that were made by the Premier last
week in Hansard in reference to this position. He said, "We adopted a plan
here. It is a plan that has been well thought out. It is a plan that is based on
discussion. It is a plan that is based on the Dunne Report and the consultations
that Mr. Dunne had. It is based on discussions that all our members, all our
Caucus members have had throughout their districts with people in their
districts and we have reached a rational decision." Mr. Speaker, that may
be true, but I can guarantee you the Premier is not correct when he stood in his
place and made those statements, that the members of his Caucus came back - if
they brought back the message that they received from their constituents and
from the fish harvesters and plant workers, I can guarantee you, Mr. Speaker, if
he made a rational decision it was not based on the message that they were given
to bring back.
Mr. Speaker, I asked hon. members, after the Member for Placentia & St.
Mary's stood in his place and outside of this House and stood up for his
constituents - there were three members who came on, on this issue, and stated
very clearly that they themselves have been pressured by their constituents.
They stated very clearly that they brought the position of their constituents
back to their caucus table. If that is correct, Mr. Speaker, this is not
correct. I challenge them, if they cannot get up on their side of the House and
say that my constituents - the three of them, half a dozen, if they cannot get
up and say that my constituents are totally against this. Maybe they are
forbidden to say that but I challenge them to stand in their places, Mr.
Speaker, and get up and say that I support the Premier. It is one of two things,
Mr. Speaker. This is a very serious issue. We are coming to the crunch with the
crab fishery and the people around this Province - I mean the Member for
Trinity-Bay de Verde, I have yet to hear him speak on this issue and I know the
Member for Burin-Placentia West, they have had petitions given to them. We are
receiving petitions. They all live in fishing communities. I understand it is
difficult to get up if you are on the government side but you have to put your
people first.
I attended a meeting in Harbour Main-Whitbourne with 250 to 300 people there,
and the message was loud and clear. They showed their hands that they were
against this. If that was brought back to the - I have no reason to doubt that
the member did not bring it back but if he brought it back - the Premier said
they did this after consultation, a rational decision. Mr. Speaker, I challenge
all members opposite, if you cannot get up and present the petitions and the
wishes of your people, get up and say that I stand with the Premier on this. Let
the people out there know where you do stand.
[Applause from the gallery]
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Again, I appeal to the visitors in the gallery and ask them to respect the
traditions of our House. We do not wish to have the galleries cleared, however,
the Chair may be left with no choice. Therefore, I appeal to you, to let the
function of the House, in a parliamentary process, continue as it should.
The hon. the Member for Grand Bank on a petition.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the people who use the health
care facility in Grand Bank. I am speaking here on behalf of about 1,000 people
who signed the petition calling on the government to live up to a promise that
the Premier made during the election.
When I hear the petitions about promises that were made to the fish
harvesters, those who are involved in the crab fishery, than I am sure that the
people in Grand Bank and surrounding area can relate to the fact that that
promise has not been lived up to either.
Mr. Speaker, we are talking about a facility in Grand Bank that is in such
bad condition - particularly the clinic down there. When you talk about truth
and telling the truth, it is in short supply when I listen to members opposite,
certainly when I listen to the Member for Burin-Placentia West who continuously
refers to the health care facility as a hospital. It is not. It is a replacement
facility. It is a clinic with holding beds only.
This morning I heard the Minister of Finance, the Acting Minister of Health,
refer to it as a hospital. It is not. Let me repeat, it is clinic. It has
holding beds only, but it is seventy years old and the condition of that
facility is such that it really is not safe for anyone to go there if they are
looking to receive quality health care.
When I talk about - what the Member for Burin-Placentia West talks about is a
regional approach, the same thing the acting minister did this morning. Well,
how can they suggest that not to continue with the services we have in Grand
Bank would be somehow harmful to a regional approach? What we are talking about
here is a clinic, a place where people, if they have a heart attack, can go to
get stabilized before being transferred to Burin; a place where people can go if
they have high blood pressure. If they get sick and they do not know where to
turn, they can go to a clinic and see a doctor or a nurse, not have to travel
for an hour to Burin.
Mr. Speaker, when you are having a heart attack - and there are members
opposite who know how important it is to have access to services right away, so
that you can be stabilized in terms of being able to really save your life. That
is what the people in the Grand Bank area are asking the government to do, to
replace the clinic that is there; to replace the seniors' home that is now
thirty years old that was built to care for people who required Levels I and II
care, not acute care. Today they are caring for patients there who require
Levels III and IV acute care. It is not a suitable facility for that.
We have people who are trying to carry out their work, do their jobs in a
facility that was not intended to do the work that they are being asked to do.
We have patients who are not receiving the quality of health care that they
need, and we have a Premier who promised, on three occasions during the
election, when he was looking to win the district that I represent, that he
would complete that facility. Three point five million dollars has been spent.
We have the largest gazebo in North America. We have steel standing down there.
All the groundwork has been done, and we have a Minister of Health, an Acting
Minister of Health, saying: No, we are going to look at a regional approach -
forgetting how important it is that every person in this Province have access to
quality health care.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's allotted time has expired.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions.
The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the youth of Labrador, on the
lack of the auditorium by this government.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is a sad day in the Province when the ordinary people
are not listened to by this government. Shortly after the election, I referred
to the present government as a Water Street government. When we look around at
the heritage of Labrador, and the future, to know that it looks very bleak
because of the attitude of this government, I have to wonder as to why the
government came to their decision. As I said before, unfortunately, I think it
is because of where they live.
When you look around the Province, and look at the state of affairs happening
in our Province today, I wonder what the quiet side of people really is. I hear
the men and women who go out in the fishing boats speak very loudly of their
concerns, and know the blood, sweat and tears that they put into the industry,
but I wonder, when they are alone, by themselves, as they face a bleak future,
what their thoughts are of their families, their boats, just as much as the
children in Labrador are wondering what will happen to the arts.
Mr. Speaker, a week after school closes, this government is going to open a
door to The Rooms, where they paid over $40 million, paid the mortgage off
before they even opened the door, and they turned around and said to the
children in Labrador: Sorry, boys and girls, but you people don't cut it and
you don't deserve an auditorium.
Mr. Speaker, I wonder, I just wonder, what do the ordinary people have to do
to get their voice heard? I wonder, what do the children in Labrador have to do
to promote a way of life that they want to play a
part in? It seems the only
people who are against them are the government of the day, who have said: No, we
are going to pay the $45 million off on The Rooms. Because that is in St. John's,
it is far more important. You people who live in Labrador, you are going to have
to wait.
Mr. Speaker, they cannot even give an answer as to when they might expect an
auditorium. School soon closes this year, Mr. Speaker, so they can be guaranteed
that it is going to be at least two years before they get their auditorium. Mr.
Speaker, I think that is a shame, I think that is a crime, and I call upon the
government of the day to sit down and to consider, just as much as they should
sit down with the fisher persons of this Province, and say: We have a problem
here, and we want to sit down with you and resolve it.
Mr. Speaker, the government should give the children in Labrador some hope;
because I, and every person in Labrador, including the member who sits on that
side of the House from Labrador, as well as my colleague here, and the Member
for Labrador West, we deserve that. The children in Labrador are equal to anyone
else, and they deserve an auditorium.
MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions.
The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a petition here, and I will read the prayer of it:
WHEREAS the South Coast community of Harbour Breton is currently trying to
cope with an economic disaster caused by FPI closure of the fish plant in the
community; and
WHEREAS 348 employees are now unemployed because of the plant closure and
many of these people have exhausted their EI benefits; and
WHEREAS the future of our rural community is now depending on immediate
government support and assistance;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to prevent FPI from taking the portion of its fish quota that
has been traditionally processed in Harbour Breton out of the community.
Mr. Speaker, I visited Harbour Breton on the weekend and had an opportunity
to meet with the action group.
[Comments from the gallery]
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
[Disturbance in the gallery]
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
This House is in recess until the galleries can be cleared.
Recess
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Prior to the recess, the Chair had recognized the hon. the Member for Fortune
Bay-Cape la Hune who had made some introductory comments on a petition. We ask
him to continue to present his petition now.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Before the House adjourned I did read the prayer of the petition, but I will
just read the WHEREUPON.
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to prevent FPI from taking the portion of its fish quota, that
has been traditionally processed in Harbour Breton, out of the community.
AND as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
As I was saying earlier, Mr. Speaker, before the adjournment, we have a
community that is in crisis in Harbour Breton. Really, I could probably go so
far as to say the comment that was made on Open Line yesterday morning by the
retired principal of the school, who says that we have an economic disaster in
Harbour Breton. When we have some disasters, like a physical disaster, you will
have the media, you will have government groups, and you will have the
population in general who focuses in on the centre. But here, Mr. Speaker,
because of the nature of the disaster, it is not on the radar screen. A
television camera cannot catch the frustration, the worry, the uncertainty, the
mental torture that goes through in a community or that Harbour Breton is now
experiencing. We have been in this crisis for about four months now and for the
people of the community, there is very little tangible evidence that things have
changed.
We have talked about here in the House, in the last couple of days, about
Abitibi Consolidated in Grand Falls laying off 100-plus, up to 150 people in the
mill and up to 150 of its woodworkers in thirty-four communities across Central
Newfoundland. Here, Mr. Speaker, we have 350 people in one small community, a
community of 2,500.
When I was in Harbour Breton this weekend and had an opportunity, as I said,
to meet with the action group - and that is why these people are so upset. They
gave me, for example, the 2004 annual report of FPI. They also gave me the
notice of the annual meeting of shareholders to be held. I just want to read a
couple of things that makes these people irritated. FPI would give the
impression to the people in this Province that its primary production plants in
Harbour Breton and in Fortune and in Marystown are not profitable, that they are
somehow being subsidized by the other portions of the company. I will just read
it. It is on page 2. It says here that in 2004, in the primary
section of the
company, the profits for FPI during 2004 was $18.7 million. They gave the
impression that they have to pull out of a community like Harbour Breton and
pull out of a community like Fortune because it is not profitable. I know why it
is not profitable. I have read through, very quickly, some of the comments made
in the report. This one is very telling, too, Mr. Speaker. It says: Our
challenge is to manage complex issues with all stakeholders for the long-term
benefit of the company and its shareholders. I do not see anything about its
shareholders in a community.
I want to say this before I conclude, Mr. Speaker, and I will have a chance
to talk about it later. Fifty-two people from Harbour Breton have already left
the community, gone across the country to Yellowknife, Iqaluit and Alberta,
looking for work. It is seasonal this time, but do you know what? If they find
work it will mean fifty-two families less in Harbour Breton unless we find a
remedy, a solution, to this disaster which is in the community of Harbour
Breton.
MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move that we now move to the Concurrence Debate on the Estimates dealing
with the Social Services Committee.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved that the House approve the Estimates of the
Social Services Committee.
The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Earlier in today's session, I tabled a report of the Social Services
Committee, and our Committee dealt with the Estimates for the Departments of
Education; Justice; Municipal and Provincial Affairs; Health and Community
Services; Human Resources, Labour and Employment; Newfoundland and Labrador
Housing; together with the Women's Policy
Section of the Executive Council
Budget Estimates.
It was a real pleasure doing the Estimates with these departments, because we
had an opportunity to sit with each of the respective ministers and their senior
staff to review their programs and services, and talk about their next year's
plan. Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of things and a couple of themes that went
through each of them, that I think are very important, that I want to highlight
before I get into some comments about each of them.
One of the themes that was surfacing and was consistent in each one that we
did was strategic investment. Each department talked about their future, talked
about strategically thinking about where they needed to be, and looked at the
Budget document itself and were able to identify areas where there were some key
strategic investments made - not necessarily budgetary items that were going to
increase the ongoing operational cost of their respective departments, but key
investment strategies - investment strategies that would do two things: one,
make a major improvement in the overall delivery of the programs and services of
their respective departments; secondly, strategically investing money today to
ensure that we have sustainable programs, sustainable services to address the
needs of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. That was a theme that was
consistent throughout.
Just to look at some of the highlights, I would like to take some of them
department by department and first talk about the Department of Education. As
the minister very appropriately pointed out, as an expenditure area of
government, the Department of Education is the second-largest expenditure area
of government. We talk about it in the Budget. We talk about it in the Budget
Estimates as an expenditure, and we talk about how we are spending our money.
Mr. Speaker, one of the critical things that the minister pointed out,
inasmuch as the focus of the Budget Estimates talks about the expenditures of
money, the minister very successfully pointed out that what we spend today in
education, the money that we are allocating in the Budget today in education, is
a strategic investment in the future of Newfoundland and Labrador, the continued
investment in the future of Newfoundland and Labrador.
As he starts talking about investment, a couple of key things come to mind.
The minister pointed out one of the challenges that we are facing in this
Province. He pointed out that, as a Province, we are experiencing some real
shifts, some real declines in enrolments in our schools. He is a minister who
has a responsibility for a department that is providing services today to some
79,000 students but forecasting ahead to six and seven and eight years' time
where the forecast is suggesting we will only have some 60,000 students.
Normally, I say, Mr. Speaker, normally, with the current teacher allocation
formula, we would have seen a significant reduction in teacher allocations in
this year, but the minister, strategically thinking about the education system
of the future, thinking about the kinds of commitments we made as a party when
we ran in 2003, saw significant reinvestment. A reinvestment of additional
teaching units this year to ensure that we had a maximum class size in our K to
1 system, or Grades K to 1 in our primary system, but also a significant
investment in culture.
The minister, this year, had some reinvestment of some additional teaching
units to be able to deal with another seventy-five units, I believe. Ordinarily,
as I said a moment ago, we would have had a reduction of some 220, but the
minister was able to strategically position some 52 teaching units to deal with
the primary class sizes, reinvest twenty-three teaching units to deal with and
support cultural initiatives, support music education in our program and be able
to support - which was going to form a part of and support - a comprehensive
fine arts strategy. Again a key investment, and the minister described it as
just that, a key investment.
Post-secondary education: Once again this year, Mr. Speaker, we made a
commitment to our post-secondary students of this year and future years, a
freeze in tuition at Memorial University and the College of the North Atlantic.
Again, a key strategic investment. Right now it brings the total, as a Province
today, in this Budget, our proposal is to invest some $174.4 million in annual
grants to Memorial University of Newfoundland. The College of the North
Atlantic, it brings our investment in grants to the College of the North
Atlantic this year to some $65.5 million, I say, Mr. Speaker. Again, a key
strategic investment, a strategic investment in our future, our children and our
youth, and I commend the minister for that kind of strategic thinking and to be
able to share with us, as a Committee, the kind of forward thought that he has
in supporting a quality education system.
Another key initiative that the minister talked about was a reinvestment in
the education system to allow us to improve the fleet of buses. Student
transportation is a critical issue. We frequently talk about the challenges of a
vast geography in Newfoundland and Labrador, and indeed it is. No one would know
that better than the Minister of Education, who has a responsibility to ensure
that, on a daily basis, we are able to transport our children to our schools,
our K to 12 system, in a safe manner, to be able to ride in buses where the
children can feel comfortable and safe - and a reinvestment this year, I say,
Mr. Speaker, a considerable reinvestment in school bus acquisition, to be able
to increase and improve on the number of buses we have in the system that are
new, rather than the older fleet that might have been in existence many years
ago.
Another key area, I say, Mr. Speaker, and an area that, when we talk about
social programs, may not consume a big part of our annual budget as a Province,
but a key area in terms of the benefit to a population. We met with the Minister
of Justice who reviewed some of the key initiatives in his portfolio this year.
When we talk about the delivery of social programs, as I said a moment ago, we
think about education, we think about health, we think about HRLE, but justice
is an area that, when we think about it, is not always one of those departments
that come to mind when we talk about social programs.
I really want to commend the minister, and I think everybody in Newfoundland
and Labrador should be commending the minister this year, for bringing in one of
the key budgetary items he talked about: the $255,000 that is going to be
invested this year as a means to create a Victims Services Program for Children.
The minister was talking about the history of children under the age of sixteen
who have not had the real benefit of a Victims Services Program. I say, Mr.
Speaker, the minister again strategically thinking about an investment in our
future, an investment in our youth.
We heard a lot, Mr. Speaker, in recent years about children who have become
the targets and victims of violence and aggression. All of those years went by,
we read about it and heard about it in the media, but all of those years went by
and those children did not have the real benefit of a service program like the
Victims Services Program that the minister has now introduced this year. The
Committee, Minister, commends you for that tremendous initiative.
Again, the advent of technology has made a significant improvement in our
justice system. The minister shared with us the strategic thinking that is going
on in his department as we now advance the use of technology to connect our
court systems, to be able to make access to the justice system more readily
available to many more people and a much faster access from more remote areas,
which has a big impact on two things. It has a big impact on individuals'
access to the court system but it also has a major impact as he strategically
plans for the future structure of court systems in the Province.
This year he announced, in his Budget, a provision for some planning money to
go into a new court reconfiguration in the community of Corner Brook, but also,
Mr. Speaker, the department now is engaged in developing a strategy for the
court system for the entire Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, again
strategically thinking about the future, strategically talking about investment
in the future.
Then, Mr. Speaker, we met with the Minister of Municipal and Provincial
Affairs. This is a major department which has major capital investment in some
critical areas. The minister talked about strategically investing in community
infrastructure. If we are to grow the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador, if
the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development is to be successful in
ensuring that we have a prosperous rural economy able to stimulate the growth of
economic development throughout rural Newfoundland and Labrador, one of the key
ingredients of that will be municipal infrastructure. We need to have strong,
financially vibrant, financially sound communities in this Province where people
enjoy living, people can have a prosperous way of life, a quality life, and the
communities can grow and prosper. The only way we are going to be able to do
that is if the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs continues to think
strategically in the fashion he is now doing and making decisions to
strategically invest in infrastructure in communities throughout Newfoundland
and Labrador.
There are two good examples, I say, Mr. Speaker, in my own district. In my
own district this year there is work taking place in the community of Trinity,
one of the major tourist destinations for the entire Province of Newfoundland
and Labrador. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, together with the
federal government, is partnering this year with the community of Trinity in
expanding their water and sewer infrastructure to support the major tourism
investment in that region of the Province, I say, Mr. Speaker, again
strategically thinking about the future of Newfoundland and Labrador and how we
can build community infrastructure to support the ongoing economic activities
and the quality of life in the communities throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, one of the other areas we looked at was the Department of Health
and Community Services. The Department of Health and Community Services is the
department that expends the greatest amount of money in any department of
government. Again this year, as the acting Minister of Health and Community
Services spoke to the Social Services Committee about the budget for that
department for this year, he talked about strategically investing in the future.
I say, Mr. Speaker, we had two sessions. This department generated such an
extensive discussion, it was necessary for the committee to get together the
second time with the minister and his staff. If there was one phrase, one
statement, one comment, that I think captured the essence and the thrust of the
debates and discussion around the Budget Estimates for the Department of Health
and Community Services, it was the Member for Labrador West. When the Member for
Labrador West appeared with the committee and asked questions of the minister,
after the discussion, after he posed his questions, he made a statement, that
this Budget in this year brought down by this government, with respect to the
Department of Health and Community Services, was the best Budget for his
district in the thirty-two years since he has been involved with that community.
I think, Mr. Speaker, that speaks volumes.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: The Member for Labrador West, in that one simple statement,
spoke volumes about the benefits of this Budget in this year. When any member
can stand in this House and say, in his recollection, that this Budget did more
for his district than in thirty-two years, that is a significant endorsement.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: When I hear members from Labrador get up and criticize what
this government is doing in Labrador, I think that is finally -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for that protection.
I say, Mr. Speaker, again, that speaks volumes for what this government is
doing in Labrador, when the Member for Labrador West can stand in his place and
make that statement, as did the member today. The Member for Cartwright-L'Anse
au Clair acknowledged that this Budget had some major benefits for her district
and for Labrador as a whole, acknowledged -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: She went on to indicate she would have liked to have more,
and, as always, every Budget would like to do more. She did acknowledge that
this Budget made tremendous strides in improving the lot of health care, of
health services, and particularly transportation in Labrador; again, Mr.
Speaker, two strong commendations for this year's Budget coming from two
different parties opposite, from two different members opposite. I say, Mr.
Speaker, a great commendation.
There are a number of things in this year's Budget that we talk about from
a health perspective that, I think, talk about the strategic thinking, a major
investment in new technologies to improve wait services. We have new MRIs for
St. John's, for example. One of the things, I think, I would like to comment
on -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair is having great difficulty hearing the hon. Member for Trinity
North who has been duly recognized. I ask members to show respect to the person
who has been identified by the Chair and allow him to speak in silence.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. WISEMAN: I really appreciate the second time that you have had to
stand and try to give me some element of protection, because obviously the
members opposite are either so excited about this great Budget and so excited
about the highlights that I am bringing forward that came out in the Social
Services Committee, either that, Mr. Speaker, or they are recognizing for the
first time what a great job this government is doing; one or the other.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: Again, as we talk about strategic investment, we talk about
strategic investment in this department as well. For the first time in the
history of this Province the largest single amount ever to be invested in health
promotion and wellness strategy is included in this year's Budget, Mr.
Speaker; a significant move and new trend. I think, Mr. Speaker, if we look at
what is happening in health care across this country, one of the big fundamental
changes that is occurring is that the governments across this country are
looking at their total health system and talking about a shift, a shift from
curing people who are not well and ill to a focus on prevention, wellness and
new wellness initiatives. For the first time in this Province's history our
government is making a major investment. Some $23 million in this year will be
invested in new health promotion strategies, again, Mr. Speaker, reinforcing
that view of strategic investment.
MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. WISEMAN: The Member for Bellevue, obviously, is not interested in
what is happening in health care in this Province nor interested in health care
for his own district. If so, I think, Mr. Speaker, he would give me the courtesy
of acknowledging the great things that we are doing. One of the great
initiatives this year, Mr. Speaker, of this government is a new long-term care
facility in Clarenville which will benefit the people of the Bellevue district,
but yet the Member for Bellevue will stand in this House-
MR. BARRETT: It is not there yet. It is not there yet.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair is reluctant to identify members -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair is reluctant to identify members who are continually shouting back
and forth across the House. I ask members once again to show respect to the hon.
Member for Trinity North who has been recognized by the Chair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: I can accept the lack of respect for myself from the Member
for Bellevue, but I think it is a real shame when the Member for Bellevue does
not respect the position of the Chair of this House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: I think, Mr. Speaker, one of the things, again, in
strategically investing money -
MR. BARRETT: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Bellevue.
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I have been in this House for sixteen years and
have sat in the Chair that you occupy. I can assure the Member for Trinity
North, that the member who is presently sitting in the chair, the position that
he holds I have great respect for, in terms of Speaker of this House, but I have
just as much respect for the hon. member who occupies the chair, the Member for
Bonavista South, but I cannot say the same thing about the Member for Trinity
North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I say to the Member for Bellevue, he must show greater respect to all members
of this House. There are forty-eight members here and if we continue to make
those remarks back and forth across the floor, then we are going to have a
decorum here that is going to be less than acceptable. I ask the member if he
would withdraw those statements and allow the Member for Trinity North to
continue.
MR. BARRETT: I apologize to Your Honour, to the Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will continue my comments, I will pick up where I left off. I was
commenting about the new long-term care facility for Clarenville and I think all
members who represent districts in and around the Trinity North District,
whether it is yours, Your Honour, or whether it is Member for Terra Nova or the
Member for Bellevue, I think all of us will agree, that all of the people who
live in that entire region will be well served by that new long-term care
facility. I want to commend this government in this year's Budget for finally
allocating the necessary funding to get this project started. I think it will be
a real asset to the health services in that region.
MR. SPEAKER: I remind the hon. Member for Trinity North that his time has
lapsed.
MR. WISEMAN: I thank you very much.
By leave, just to make a concluding comment?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: The member, by leave.
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There is one department that I had not gotten to yet. The fact that it is the
last one I mention does not take away from its significance. That is the
Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment. There is one issue that I
wanted to highlight that is not a big budgetary item, but a significant issue
for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. There is a $200,000 figure in this
year's Budget for that department to invest in development of a new strategy
to deal with poverty in this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WISEMAN: If there is one initiative, I say, Mr. Speaker, in that
department's vast programs and services and the significant issues that we
talked about, there is one significant point that I do want to emphasize. I
commend the minister and her staff for bringing forward that request to have
$200,000 approved in her budget to develop a strategy to deal with poverty, a
comprehensive strategy, not piecemeal, but do it in a comprehensive fashion to
serve the people of Newfoundland and Labrador well into the future. As a
Committee Chair, I want to commend the minister for asking us, as a Committee,
to approve that line item in her budget this year.
Mr. Speaker, these are some of the things that we talked about in the
Estimates. Not all inclusive by any means. If I have not mentioned some
initiative of any particular department, it is not to suggest that it was not
important. These are some of the things that I heard as I sat as a Chair and I
listened to members ask questions about, and the minister commented and provided
information. I want to thank each and every minister who appeared before our
Committee and their staff for the great work that they did and the tremendous
preparation. They were able to come to our Committee meetings and provide
tremendous insight to the questions that were posed, and I thank them for that.
To my colleagues on both sides of the House, as members of the Committee, thank
you for the manner in which you questioned the minister and her staff, and for
the thoughtfulness and courtesy you showed them as we talked about the programs
and services that they provide.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I must say, I appreciate an opportunity to speak. Just for clarification, I
would like to check with the Chair and the Table as to the time allocation and
confirm that if I get so inspired I might be able to speak for an hour.
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, the Leader of the Opposition and the Premier each has
one hour. Every other member has twenty minutes.
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, I doubt - if I speak for an hour it will not be out of inspiration, I
can tell you that, with respect to this Budget or the report of this particular
Committee in dealing with Education, Health Care, Justice, Human Resources and
Employment, and Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
Just to give one example. As the Chair, the Member for Trinity North
obviously did not read any of the press with respect to the Budget in his own
area, in The Packet , because they were scratching their heads in terms of
the shell game that they described for the Budget. Even in his own district, let
me give an example directly from Education with respect to what was on the
evening news last night where teacher reductions are occurring. He talked about
the teachers, the teacher reductions occurring. The perfect example - no better
example exists, Mr. Speaker, with respect to a shell game that was played by the
government in this Budget in trying to say to one group that they are doing
something when, in fact, they are doing the exact opposite.
The Member for Trinity North talked about the extra teachers going into the
system when, in fact, the reality is this: From the time that school closed a
year ago in June until the time that it opens again next September after Labour
Day, there will be 401 fewer teachers in the classrooms of Newfoundland and
Labrador serving the needs and interests of our youth with respect to education
K to 12. He stands as Chair of the Committee and says what a great Budget we
introduced because we put some teachers back in the system. Make no wonder that
people are finding it increasingly difficult day by day by day to find anything
believable about anything that this government spins out there. They have great
spin doctors but they are really not married or committed to the truth in any
serious, significant fashion.
Let me point out last night, the meeting that was reported on in Port Rexton,
because I can tell you, the Member for Trinity North was there and they were met
by a gauntlet of students. They had to walk the gauntlet of students who were
disappointed and upset that in their school they are going to lose
two-and-a-half teacher units. The member for the area just stood up and talked
about extra teachers going into the system. He managed to get the brand new,
freshly minted Minister of Education to come out for a meeting to talk to the
concerned parents and the school council about the teachers they were losing. He
is back here today in the Legislature talking about the extra teachers going
into the system. Well, I can tell you, there are no extra teachers going into
Port Rexton. Their reaction or response to the meeting - the Member for Trinity
North was not reacting or responding, the freshly, right out of the box, brand
new Minister of Education, proud as a peacock. He had better hang on to his job
before the Member for Gander gets anywhere close to him, I can tell you that.
The brand new minister turns around and comes out and says: We had a
wonderful meeting. He must have been in a different place. What did the parents
say? The parents came out and said: Oh, he talked and yakked and mouthed off for
twenty minutes, but we understand one thing: not a thing is going to change. Not
one thing is going to change. We are still going to lose two-and-a-half
teachers.
Now the member for the area did not respond in the media afterwards because
he will not talk out in Port Rexton, just like he will not talk about the crab
fishery. He will not talk about teachers and program losses in Port Rexton. He
will come to the Legislature and take the little script that he was given,
probably from the eighth floor, probably right from the Premier's Office,
probably one from one of the PR people saying: Stand up and read this, Mr.
Member. Here is what you have to say because if you do not say it, guess what?
You have $25,000 too, that you might lose. You happen to be a Parliamentary
Secretary, too, and if you are found out in the public saying anything other
than what you are told to say, you had better watch out, because just like the
Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, one whack up the side of the head, a
zip across the lipper', a bang in the wallet and put him in his place so
that the rest of them obediently today - what is he doing today, the good,
obedient, well-behaved Parliamentary Secretary for Health? He is sticking to the
script. He is betraying his own people in his own District in Port Rexton who
thought he was seriously coming out to help them get a couple of teachers, to
maybe get our teachers back. They thought that was what the meeting was about.
MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) point out to the Leader of the Opposition and
to the House, and to ask you to rule on it. It is fine that the Leader of the
Opposition can say that government has betrayed people on policy matters and we
can debate that all day but he cannot impute motives on another member in this
House and say that a particular member betrayed somebody, his own people or
anyone else in this House. That is not parliamentary. It is unparliamentary. It
imputes motives on a member and it causes disruption in the House. Clearly, Mr.
Speaker, that language is unparliamentary and I ask you to rule on it or ask,
before you do it, the Leader of the Opposition to do the right thing and
withdraw.
MR. SPEAKER: The word betrayal, as the Government House Leader points
out, when you direct it towards an individual is clearly unparliamentary, and
taking into consideration the tone that the Leader of the Opposition put
forward, the Chair rules that it is out of order and I ask the hon. Leader of
the Opposition if he would kindly withdraw that remark.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I will withdraw that remark, and I thank the Government House Leader for his
instruction as to how I can get the message across. The government betrayed the
parents and the students in Port Rexton and the member supports it fully, Mr.
Speaker. That is what I can tell you and that is a fact. He supports it fully!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Is the hon. Member for Trinity North on a point of order?
MR. WISEMAN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Okay, the hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the members of this House, and particularly to the member opposite
and the Leader of the Opposition party, under no circumstance and at no time - I
have been in this House a very short period of time relevant to some of my
colleagues, five years, in fact, and I have sat on both sides of this House. In
fact, this is my second time sitting on this side of the House and I say each
and every time that I have ever spoken in this House or sat in a caucus room, I
have always represented the issues important to my district. I have yet, I say
to the member opposite, and I will never - I have yet to read from a script
given to me by anyone in this House.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I say to the hon. Member for Trinity North, I ask if he would be kind enough
to get to his point of order, please.
MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My point exactly is: If the member opposite, or any members opposite, want to
stand in this House or go on Open Line shows and suggest that I have said
something or that I think something or I plan to do something in a certain way,
then I suggest they have that discussion with me in advance; because I say, Mr.
Speaker, when I speak on behalf of the people in my district, I speak with
clarity, I speak with conviction, and I speak with their best interests at
heart, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member to get to his point of order.
MR. WISEMAN: At no time am I a puppet for anybody else.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. WISEMAN: I ask the member opposite to respect that when he stands and
speaks in this House.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
There is no point of order.
I have to refer back again to the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
I say to the Leader of the Opposition that words are important. When he
expresses himself - and he is good with words, I must admit that, but when he
expresses his words toward the government and then deflects them right back on
another member, that is certainly doing through the back door what he should not
do through the front door.
I ask the Leader of the Opposition if he would kindly apologize to the House
and retract the words that he had indicated, and the aspersion that he cast on
the hon. member.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I take your ruling and your instruction, and will do exactly as you said.
Whichever word you want to use, apologize or withdraw, I will gladly do it.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me talk again just for a minute, because the Chair of the Committee, the
Member for Trinity North, one of the things he talked about in his twenty
minutes was the additional teachers - the point I am trying to make. Meanwhile,
in his own district, all over the media, everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador
who watches the news knows that there were no additional teachers in his
district, in Port Rexton. The very fact that he is up bragging about this
government and saying one of the reasons that I am proud to Chair this
Committee, one of the reasons that I am going to vote for this Budget, is
because of what they did with teachers, therefore he is supporting the loss of
two-and-a-half teachers in Port Rexton, in his own district, Mr. Speaker. That
cannot be twisted any other way than that, no matter how good anybody is with
words. Those are the facts.
He talked about - very defensive, some of these Parliamentary Secretaries,
these days, very defensive, and I suggest they should be. The lesson learned, if
not anything else, is that they had better be very careful with their words.
Words are very important for a Parliamentary Secretary, more so than anybody
else, and the Parliamentary Secretary for Health and Community Services, the
Member for Trinity North, the Chair of this Committee, was very careful with his
words today. I guess he thought about them in great detail before he uttered a
single word. Let me quote, to use an example as to why he would be very careful.
He might be saying what came out of his mouth, and he is suggesting he wants to
be given credit for thinking all by himself as to what he said, but let me give
a couple of quotes from the paper where the former Parliamentary Secretary for
Education was removed from his position. The Premier of the Province said,
speaking publicly, "Very clearly, I removed him," - the Premier told
reporters outside the Legislature. I indicated that his behaviour was
unacceptable.
What was it that was unacceptable? Because they asked the former
Parliamentary Secretary for Education, the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's:
What did you do? What did you say that was found to be unacceptable? Here is the
answer: The Member for Placentia & St. Mary's "...said he has simply
suggested government rethink its approach - perhaps put the pilot project off
for a year and consult further with the union..." - as they had promised in
writing, before trying to find a new solution in the future.
That sounds pretty reasonable to me; but, because a Parliamentary Secretary
said that, the Premier of the Province said: I removed him because that was
unacceptable.
That was not acceptable, and I would suggest to you that if the Member for
Trinity North, the Chair of this Social Services Committee, wanted to make a
stand today, like he pretended he was doing out in Port Rexton, on behalf of the
parents, the students, the school council and the community, to save programming
in the schools, to save the teachers, he would have stood up today and said: I
support the general budget policy of the government but I cannot condone the
loss of two-and-a-half teaching units in my district in Port Rexton because I
know it is going to have a detrimental impact and effect on the educational
opportunity for the young people in that area.
What did he do? Here is the other part of it. What did he do? He went out
there with the fresh, brand new, minted Minister of Education, and here were the
opening words - the Minister of Education, on television, going in, walking
through the people, saying: Why is everybody so glum?
What did he expect them to do? Smile and say: Oh, we are so happy to see you,
Mr. Minister. You are taking away two-and-a-half of our teachers. We think you
are the best Education Minister we ever saw. Oh, welcome to our community! Oh,
welcome to our school! We are very happy. We are so delighted with this Budget.
Oh, yes, that is what he expected, I guess, because I will tell you what. If
it was one of those Parliamentary Secretaries, or one of those Cabinet
ministers, or one of those other members on that side, that is what they would
have said. They would have said: This is a great Budget, this is wonderful for
rural Newfoundland and Labrador, this is great for Port Rexton. Don't you
people understand that education is going to be better here next year with
two-and-a-half teaching units gone? It has to be better. Don't you see the
logic of it? You people must not understand how the plan of this government is
making things so much better in the rural communities. What is it you do not
understand?
I am sure if the Parliamentary Secretary for Health and Community Services -
he was there, by the way, he got in through the door first because he would have
been embarrassed by: Why is everyone so glum? Well, I will tell you about a glum
group. I saw them here on the governm