2009 Legislative Session: Fifth Session, 38th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.

The printed version remains the official version.

official report of

Debates of the

Legislative Assembly

(hansard)

Wednesday, March 4, 2009

Afternoon Sitting

Volume 39, Number 5

CONTENTS

Routine Proceedings

Page

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Police (Misconduct, Complaints, Investigations, Discipline and Proceedings) Amendment Act, 2009 (Bill 6)

Police (Police Complaint Commissioner) Amendment Act, 2009 (Bill 7)

Hon. J. van Dongen

Statements (Standing Order 25 b )

Terrace and Hockeyville competition

J. Rustad

South Asian Family Association and International Women's Day

S. Hammell

Community spirit in northern B.C.

D. MacKay

Napoleon Gomez

K. Conroy

Mission Multicultural Festival

R. Hawes

Kersley Musical Theatre

B. Simpson

Oral Questions

Budget provisions for Partnerships B.C.

B. Ralston

Hon. C. Hansen

G. Gentner

Child care spaces in Whistler area

C. Trevena

Hon. L. Reid

Closing of Cowichan Lodge

D. Routley

Hon. G. Abbott

Economic benefits of Olympic Games

H. Bains

Hon. C. Hansen

Transfer of Lytton Lumber forest licence

H. Lali

Hon. P. Bell

Jumbo Glacier resort

N. Macdonald

Hon. B. Bennett

Petitions

M. Sather

Committee of Supply

Supplementary Estimates: Other Appropriations (continued)

B. Ralston

C. Evans

Hon. C. Hansen

G. Gentner

S. Herbert

J. Horgan

M. Sather

G. Coons

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Supply Act, 2008-2009 (Supplementary Estimates) (Bill 3)

Hon. C. Hansen

Second Reading of Bills

Supply Act, 2008-2009 (Supplementary Estimates) (Bill 3)

Hon. C. Hansen

Committee of the Whole House

Supply Act, 2008-2009 (Supplementary Estimates) (Bill 3)

Report and Third Reading of Bills

Supply Act, 2008-2009 (Supplementary Estimates) (Bill 3)

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Supply Act (No. 1), 2009 (Bill 5)

Hon. C. Hansen

Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2008-2009 (Bill 4)

Hon. M. de Jong

Second Reading of Bills

Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2009 (Bill 2)

Hon. C. Hansen

B. Ralston

Budget Debate (continued)

J. Yap

M. Sather

R. Hawes

G. Gentner

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WEDNESDAY, MARCH 4, 2009

The House met at 1:36 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Prayers.

Introductions by Members

Hon. R. Cantelon: I would like to introduce Vincent Erenst, managing director, and Ian Roberts, communication director, of Marine Harvest Canada, who are visiting today from Campbell River.

Marine Harvest Canada's aquaculture farms, hatcheries and processing plants employ more than 500 people, making them one of the biggest private sector employers on north Vancouver Island. I ask you all to please give them a warm welcome.

C. Trevena: I would like to echo the Minister of Agriculture's introduction of Mr. Erenst and Mr. Roberts, both from Marine Harvest. I think the House recognizes the importance of the employment in the north Island. Members of the opposition had a very productive meeting this morning with Vincent Erenst, Ian Roberts and Clare Backman, the environmental director of Marine Harvest, on ways we can cooperate and consult in the future. I hope the House will indeed make them very welcome.

R. Thorpe: In the gallery today is a lady from West Kelowna who has worked tirelessly on my behalf, on behalf of British Columbians. I would like to thank Marion Ashby very much and ask the House to please welcome her to the House today.

N. Macdonald: Joining us in the House today, I have four guests from the Kootenays. Chief Wilfred Teneese is from the Akisqnuk First Nation, which is near Invermere. I also have Rob Gravelle, who is a councillor with the Tobacco Plains band near Grasmere. I also have Councillor Sandra Luke, who is from the Yakan Nukiy First Nation near Creston; and also Troy Sebastian from the Ktunaxa Nation near Cranbrook. Please join me in making them welcome.

Hon. J. van Dongen: I am pleased to introduce to the House today my constituency assistant Sherri Wacker. She has worked with me for 12 years to serve the constituents of Abbotsford-Clayburn, and I appreciate the job she does and the support she gives me as an MLA. I ask the House to please make her welcome.

M. Karagianis: Today in the gallery we have a repeat visit from two young men who have a keen interest in what goes on here in the House. They visited us before for question period. They watch us keenly on Hansard afterward. I'd like the House to give a special welcome to Mark Bridges and Kody Bell.

J. Nuraney: In the gallery today we have Lisa Thompson and Jim Lacamell, both from Burnaby. I would like the House to please join me in offering them a very warm welcome.

[1340]

D. Thorne: Today I have the pleasure of introducing Coun. Barrie Lynch to the House. I spent many years with Councillor Lynch on Coquitlam council. He is here in the precinct today with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, which is holding meetings here all week. I'd like us to make him and the FCM very welcome.

D. Hayer: In the House today we have one very special guest, my constituency assistant Manuel Santos, who does a great job. He makes sure that all the work is looked after for my constituents when I'm here. Would the House please make him very welcome.

D. Routley: Could the House help me welcome Pedro Banman. Pedro is a young man from the Cowichan Valley who is one of the organizers of a youth group called You the Youth. They held a forum recently where they petitioned…. The admission to their forum was one idea for the betterment of the Cowichan Valley, and they got a basketful of ideas. He's a great vision of the future. Help me welcome the future to the House.

Hon. G. Abbott: By a remarkable coincidence, in Speaker's gallery today are not only my hard-working constituency assistants Roxena Goodine and Holly Cowan here to join us, but immediately behind them and beside them are members of the 2009 legislative internship program.

While they join us every day to watch democracy in action, the one addition we have today is the remarkable academic leader and mentor of the program, Dr. Paddy Smith. Paddy is an old friend, going back as far as the University of Victoria — back in the mid-1970s. It's wonderful to see him again, and I note that he is still wearing the same red running shoes that he was wearing in 1976. Please make him welcome.

S. Hammell: There are 37 grade 11 students from Queen Elizabeth Secondary School in the precinct. Accompanying them are their teacher Alyssa Hogan and three parents. Would the House please make them welcome.

C. Evans: It would appear that the way to get your family to visit you here in the Legislature is to tell them

[ Page 14194 ]

you're going to quit. As a consequence, I have another family member, my cousin Todd Darling, in the gallery. He's from the old country. He's from the United States, so he's afraid of question period. He thinks that's bulletproof glass.

At any rate, Todd is a film-maker, and the last film that he made was about a guy named George Bush, and he's touring around. Here's the sad news. He is here with his camera, and he thinks he's taking pictures of us. I have a request of all members. If you meet this gentleman in the hallway with a camera and he asks you about me, you tell him only the nice stuff. Will you please make him welcome.

Hon. G. Campbell: I know this is highly unusual, but I can guarantee the member that we all only know nice stuff about him.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

Police (Misconduct, Complaints,

Investigations, Discipline and

Proceedings) Amendment Act, 2009

Hon. J. van Dongen presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Police (Misconduct, Complaints, Investigations, Discipline and Proceedings) Amendment Act, 2009.

Hon. J. van Dongen: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now.

Motion approved.

Hon. J. van Dongen: I am pleased to introduce the Police (Misconduct, Complaints, Investigations, Discipline and Proceedings) Amendment Act, 2009.

[1345]

In February 2007 Judge Josiah Wood presented his report, setting out his findings regarding the police complaint process. Judge Wood provided 91 recommendations and drafting suggestions to assist government in improving the police complaint process. The legislation includes, among other things, the following changes.

Investigation of complaints by police departments will now be subject to contemporaneous, or real-time, oversight and monitoring by the commissioner, and where necessary, the commissioner will direct that there be further investigation.

Police officers, whether witnesses or those who are the subject of the complaint, must cooperate fully with the investigations.

Police officers who retire or resign will no longer be able to avoid the consequences of discipline proceedings.

Even without a complaint the commissioner can order investigations, if it is in the public interest to do so.

In closing, this legislation fulfils our commitment to implement the recommendations of the Wood report and overhaul the police complaint process to enhance the role and powers of the Police Complaint Commissioner and make the police fully accountable to the public that they serve and protect.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for the second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 6, Police (Misconduct, Complaints, Investigations, Discipline and Proceedings) Amendment Act, 2009, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Police (Police Complaint

Commissioner) Amendment Act, 2009

Hon. J. van Dongen presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Police (Police Complaint Commissioner) Amendment Act, 2009.

Hon. J. van Dongen: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now.

Motion approved.

Hon. J. van Dongen: I am pleased to introduce Bill 7, Police (Police Complaint Commissioner) Amendment Act, 2009. The bill speaks to the appointment of the Police Complaint Commissioner. The commissioner is an independent office of the Legislative Assembly. The bill changes the legislative framework for appointment to be similar to legislation for other officers of the Legislature. The Auditor General Act and the Representative for Children and Youth Act are used as recent models.

This bill provides for direct appointment of the commissioner by resolution of the Legislative Assembly instead of by order of the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council. The amendments change the appointment term from one six-year term to a five-year term with the ability to reappoint for one term of up to five years. New provisions for the appointment of an acting Police Complaint Commissioner are also included in this bill.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 7, Police (Police Complaint Commissioner) Amendment Act, 2009, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

[ Page 14195 ]

Statements

(Standing Order 25

b) TERRACE AND HOCKEYVILLE COMPETITION

J. Rustad: As you know, we have the occasional friendly rivalry between communities in northern B.C. A lot of this stems from the tremendous pride residents take with their communities. A lot of that pride is tied to local hockey teams, whether it's minor hockey players who go to the NHL, cities competing in junior hockey ranks or the famous battles of senior men's teams like the Prince George Mohawks and the Quesnel Kangaroos. Hockey and the teamwork that is required to succeed is hard-wired into the northern spirit.

There comes a time when we need to put aside the rivalries and work together to achieve a common goal. That's why I'm urging all MLAs to get the message out: vote Terrace for Hockeyville 2009. Terrace is competing against four other Canadian cities, and a city in British Columbia has never won the coveted title, which comes with a prize of $100,000 for arena upgrades and, of course, an NHL pre-season game.

In support of Terrace's bid, Aaron Margerison wrote about his first hockey game ever. At the end of his story, he said: "Soon the game was done, and I loved that I was allowed to go. On my way home I said to my mom that I'd like to buy her a present, and that was my first hockey game." We all remember our first game.

We have about eight hours to pull together and get the vote out to make Terrace Hockeyville. Surely this is one election we can all get behind. So everybody, go to cbc.ca/hockeyville to vote, and remember to vote early and vote often.

[1350]

SOUTH ASIAN FAMILY ASSOCIATION

AND INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY

S. Hammell: I have the good fortune of representing the constituents of Surrey–Green Timbers, and I am privileged to talk to you today about a wonderful organization that serves a large part of our community.

This organization, the South Asian Family Association or SAFA, has a mission to highlight the South Asian community and culture. By creating mediums for cross-cultural understanding and education, they are strengthening the positive and vibrant South Asian image. SAFA is preparing for their first annual International Women's Day celebration at the award-winning SFU Surrey campus.

The event will celebrate the economic, political and social achievements of women. It's a free public event on International Women's Day, Sunday, March 8. There will be a marketplace, live entertainment and a closed workshop from the We Can Stop Violence Against Women coalition. There will be keynote speakers and panellists discussing empowerment and education, financial health and lifestyles. Sen. Mobina Jaffer and former BCTF president Jinny Simms are two of the women participating in this global celebration.

As I know members know, the first International Women's Day took place March 8, 1911. Clara Zetkin, leader of the women's office for the Social Democratic Party in Germany, tabled the idea of an international women's day. She proposed that every year in every country there should be a celebration on the same day to press for improvements for women.

While we certainly have a long way to go — there is much more to be done — we have come a long way. The United Nations International Women's Day 2009 has the theme of "Women and men united to end violence against women and girls." I would like the House to applaud the work of SAFA.

COMMUNITY SPIRIT IN NORTHERN B.C.

D. MacKay: Today I'd like to talk about northern trust and just remind people just how big this province of British Columbia is.

Highway 37 starts off Highway 16 west of Smithers. When you're travelling on Highway 37, you drive up to a place called Meziadin Junction, where the highway splits in two. You can travel from there down to Stewart and hit tidewater, or you can turn right and travel up Highway 37 North.

As you travel up Highway 37 North, you travel through some big communities. The first community is called Bell 2, which is a restaurant where the helicopter skiing is done from. Then you travel through Iskut, which is an Indian reserve. Then you get to Dease Lake. While you're in Dease Lake, if you want to take a side trip you can travel for two and a half hours down to Telegraph Creek and drive through the Stikine grand canyon. It's absolutely spectacular.

When you leave Dease Lake and drive north, the first place you come to is Good Hope, which is another small native reserve. But the driving time between Dease Lake and Atlin is actually eight hours, and this is where I would like to spend a moment and educate the people on the Lower Mainland how big this province is.

Eight hours' driving from Dease Lake to Atlin, and during our last federal election, the advance poll for the people in Atlin was at Dease Lake, so a 16 hours' round trip if you wanted to vote early. I'm hoping we don't make the same mistake, and I've actually contacted the provincial body responsible for that to encourage them not to allow that to happen.

I want to talk about northern trust now. On one of my return trips from Atlin, I stopped at Bell 2 on the way home. I was having a coffee, and I was talking to the young lady that was waiting on the tables. There was

[ Page 14196 ]

another couple sitting at a table next to me. They overheard me say I was from Smithers. They didn't know who I was, and I'd never met them before. They came up to me and said: "We heard you were going to Smithers. Would you mind taking our bank deposit and leaving it at the bank for us?"

They didn't know who I was. They gave me a bag with their bank deposit in it. I drove for 250 kilometres, turned left at Highway 16 and drove back to Smithers. They drove to Terrace. Never met them before in my life.

Can you imagine doing that in Vancouver or Victoria?

Mr. Speaker: Member for West Kootenay–Boundary.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Continue, Member.

K. Conroy: He did guarantee that he deposited it.

[1355]

NAPOLEON GOMEZ

K. Conroy: Today I want to talk to the House about a true hero, a man who has done so much for working people that he is considered a hero by thousands of people. I am talking about Napoleon Gomez, the president of the National Union of Mine and Metal Workers or Los Mineros , as it is known in Mexico.

In 2006 Napoleon led a series of strikes at mines owned by Grupo Mexico after an explosion at one of Grupo's mines killed 65 miners. The Mexican government removed Napoleon as president of Los Mineros . At the time, the Oxford-trained economist was demanding an investigation into the deaths of the workers in the coalmine explosion. Teachers, bus drivers, airline workers and farmers all marched to protest against the government interference in union activities.

Napoleon and his family faced threats to their lives and, with the support of the United Steelworkers, fled to the United States and then to Vancouver, where they now live in an undisclosed location. Napoleon says that in spite of the threats to his life, he continues to represent workers of Los Mineros and recently negotiated a 9 percent wage increase for one of the unions he represents.

In December the Mexican government revived charges against Napoleon. He stands accused of fraud, criminal association and other offences committed against members of Los Mineros . Actually, these very same charges have already been dismissed numerous times in every level of Mexican court in which they were filed. There is even an audit by an independent Swiss accounting firm that concluded the charges were absolutely false. The right-wing anti-union Mexican government still continues to try to have him extradited to face the trumped-up charges.

I'd like to quote Steve Hunt, western Canadian director from the Steelworkers. "I think he's a hero. His only crime is standing up for the people he represents and the families and the communities that have been devastated by some of these events." And I agree.

Napoleon is a man who deserves to live without threats to his life or to his family, to continue his work on behalf of working people, and I hope that this Legislature joins me in urging the Canadian government not to extradite him to Mexico.

MISSION MULTICULTURAL FESTIVAL

R. Hawes: Last Saturday Mission celebrated its fourth annual multicultural festival, thanks to Mission Community Services and thousands of hours of volunteer labour. This annual festival celebrates the ethnic and cultural diversity that helps make our country and our province the best place on earth.

Following a parade of national flags headed up by the Canadian flag, there was a wonderful program of dance and music from various cultures. Food from Japan, Korea, India, Mexico, the Ukraine, Italy and Greece was all served in abundance. Arts and cultural displays provided a glimpse into the various cultures that make up my community. The day is all about understanding our differences and building on the strengths within our diversity and understanding that while we are different, we are similar in many, many ways.

Even through the warmth of mutual acceptance that permeates this whole festival, I don't think anyone there forgot that the dark veil of prejudice still exists in our country, and although we have come a long way, we still have a long way to go. It's festivals and celebrations like this that help part those veils, and for this, we owe a debt of gratitude to all of the participants.

I was reminded that in Mission we have a lot to be proud of. In November we once again elected James Atebe as our mayor. Many in this House would know James as one of the friendliest and most outgoing mayors in British Columbia. But we didn't elect him because he's from Kenya or because he's a man. We elected him because he's the best person for the job, and that is how I think it should be.

KERSLEY MUSICAL THEATRE

B. Simpson: When my wife isn't singing about sleeping alone, she's a tart — a strawberry tart, to be precise. My daughter is a very silly girl who, when she's not wiping her nose on other people's sleeves, literally throws herself at an egotistical, chauvinistic Frenchman who takes great pride in his magnificent thighs. And my son has taken to wearing only black clothes and moving furniture around in the dark or in the fog.

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Yes, once again it's time for the magic of KMT, Kersley Musical Theatre. This year this ever-expanding group of thespians is presenting their breathtaking version of Beauty and the Beast .

This year's production is even bigger and more magical than ever. There are over 120 people in the cast, ranging in age from barely six months old to north of 70. There are over 300 costumes made by many of the dedicated parents and supporters of KMT. Some 20 crew members and a five-piece band professionally manage this enormous cast through each scene, making sure they're wearing the right costumes, singing the right songs and working with the right props, staging and lighting. It's hard to describe how truly awe-inspiring and professional this production is.

[1400]

Once again, KMT is providing an opportunity for people to escape the winter doldrums and enjoy a sensory vacation. And once again, Director Janice Butler, Producer Cathy Heinzelman and Assistant Director Dorine Lamarche have used the months of rehearsals and preparations to engage the cast, crew and supporters of this production in a personal and community journey of learning and growth.

Each member of the cast, crew and band has had to make personal sacrifices to give audiences this sensory treat. So I ask the members of this Legislature to recognize these sacrifices and the important role KMT plays in making our Cariboo communities strong and vibrant places in which to live and play.

Oral Questions

BUDGET PROVISIONS FOR

PARTNERSHIPS B.C.

B. Ralston: In this year's budget the Premier said the government would "rein in avoidable government spending" and "reduce administrative and personnel costs." But Partnerships B.C., the government agency responsible for privatizing public assets, will actually get a boost in its operating budget — salaries and benefits up 7.3 percent, administrative costs up 4.1 percent, corporate relations budget up 11.5 percent.

Now we have learned that Partnerships B.C. is taking

part in a five-day junket to Ixtapa, Mexico, for the construction industry, and a senior official will be lecturing there on "Best P3 Practices in Transportation."

My question is to the Premier. How does he explain the salary hikes and benefits for Partnerships B.C. while his budget made devastating cuts to education, health care, forestry and public safety?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. C. Hansen: The member is clearly wrong, because if he would actually read the budget, he would know that in this budget we have an additional $4.8 billion over the next three years for health care. He will know that the budget for post-secondary education has increased by $288 million. He will also find that the budget for the Ministry of Education is at an all-time record high, in spite of the fact that we continue to see declining enrolment in K-to-12.

The record of Partnerships B.C. speaks for itself. If you look at project after project after project, we have seen hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money that has been saved because of innovation, because of risk transfer.

Partnerships B.C. has a great track record, and it's great to hear that other jurisdictions want to learn from their experience.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

B. Ralston: That agency does have a track record of a culture of extravagance and excess.

In his budget speech last month the Finance Minister said the government will be moving now to reduce all types of discretionary spending across the public sector. Indeed, public employees are being asked to consider whether or not they wish to take unpaid leave. But this Minister of Finance supported pay hikes to senior staff at Partnerships B.C., the same people that are lounging this week at an exclusive resort in Ixtapa, Mexico.

To the Minister of Finance: will he agree to roll back the pay hikes for those senior officials at Partnerships B.C.?

Hon. C. Hansen: I think the work that has been done by Partnerships B.C. over the last number of years has saved taxpayers in British Columbia literally hundreds of millions of dollars. I get it that the NDP are more driven by the ideological approach that's being imposed on them by some of their public sector unions, but I challenge the opposition and the opposition Finance critic to actually look at the record in terms of the P3 project at Abbotsford Hospital — saved the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars.

[1405]

That was a project that the NDP promised and didn't deliver. That's a project that we promised. We delivered, and we did it through a P3 that saved the taxpayers millions of dollars. And that is true of just about every single one of the P3 projects that Partnerships B.C. has driven in this province.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a further supplemental.

B. Ralston: Well, the Minister of Finance likes to repeat the fiction about the Abbotsford Hospital. What the Auditor General said is that….

[ Page 14198 ]

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

B. Ralston: What the Auditor General….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Just take your seat for a second.

Members.

Continue, Member.

B. Ralston: What the Auditor General actually said in his report is that we would know in 35 years whether or not that project saved any money. That's what the Auditor General said. The minister has his own version of it. That's what the Auditor General said.

It's clear that the management team in Partnerships B.C. will get pay hikes — the same people who are lounging down there in the Mexican sun, who lined their pockets after yet another failed P3 project just a week ago.

How many more pay hikes for Partnerships B.C. executives vacationing in Mexico? How will that help the economy that we're experiencing right now? Will he admit his promise to protect the fundamentals and cut waste was another broken promise?

Hon. C. Hansen: Partnerships B.C. has, over the last number of years, developed a worldwide reputation for excellence. They are being sought after by provinces across Canada to help other jurisdictions learn how to save taxpayers' money through P3 models. They are being sought by jurisdictions around the world. They are being sought as speakers at conferences, and I think that's to their credit.

This member talks about the Abbotsford Hospital and the 35 years, and I can tell you that the track record they had when they were in government and the promise that they made to build the Abbotsford Hospital and then failed to deliver…. They would still be planning that hospital 35 years from now. We've built it, it's serving patients, and we're proud of it.

G. Gentner: Can the Premier explain why — while he's cutting services for kids, cutting services for seniors, cutting services to combat crime — his budget gives pay hikes to Partnerships B.C. management, the same people that are currently lounging at poolside in Ixtapa, Mexico, as we speak right now, this afternoon?

Can the Premier explain why any executive would be in Mexico deep-sea fishing, sipping umbrella drinks on the beach, taking Mexican cooking classes when he or she should be right here in B.C. right now helping average British Columbians and families struggle with today's recession?

Hon. C. Hansen: The member is full of hyperbole, but he is not full of facts, because quite frankly, he does not know what he's talking about. There is one person from Partnerships B.C. that is going to speak at a conference. All of the expenses are being paid for by the conference organizer.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

The member has a supplemental.

[1410]

G. Gentner: The vice-president is currently making a salary of $215,000 per annum and climbing.

You know, Partnerships B.C. went to Mexico to work, apparently, and they are probably right about now, at two o'clock — give or take a time change — this afternoon presenting their business session on their appropriate name, "Here for a Good Time, Not a Long Time." I'm quoting the convention program. That is what Partnerships B.C. is all about. It's not only an insult to the hard-working people in British Columbia but to the Legislature and all the other ministers who are currently having to cut their budgets.

Again to the Premier: can he explain to the House why suntanning in Mexico is more important than addressing the economy right now here in British Columbia?

Hon. C. Hansen: Actually, I would ask that member to apologize to a hard-working public servant who has earned an international reputation, who is being sought after as a speaker. The conference organizers are prepared to pay for that individual to travel to speak at that conference. The record of Partnerships B.C. stands for itself.

Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Member.

Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat for a second.

Member. Take the time to listen to the question and listen to the answer, please.

Continue, Minister.

Hon. C. Hansen: We have the Canada line, which is a P3 model — $92 million in savings. That has actually been confirmed by the Auditor General.

We've got the Gordon and Leslie Diamond Centre. It's the academic ambulatory care centre at VGH that is serving patients from all across the province. That was a $17 million savings because it was a P3.

The Abbotsford Hospital I mentioned earlier is a savings of $39 million, confirmed by the Auditor General.

[ Page 14199 ]

The Sea to Sky Highway has $131 million worth of additional benefits to the taxpayers because we did it as a P3.

CHILD CARE SPACES IN WHISTLER AREA

C. Trevena: On Monday the Minister of State for Childcare was unable to offer any assurances to families in Whistler who need child care spaces. Last Friday Spring Creek closed its doors, with 22 spaces for three-to-five-year-olds gone, and 20 spaces for infants and toddlers have also gone. We hear that in May the Teddy Bear Daycare is closing its doors, so losing another 16 spaces.

The latter is closing because of the Olympics and the former because they simply can't get the staff. The wait-list is closed at the only other child care centre in town, the Whistler Children's Centre, and there are 96 families waiting for child care there.

I'd like to ask the Minister of State for Childcare: what's she going to do about this?

Hon. L. Reid: I can tell the members that we continue to work with both of those centres, and certainly some of them have some credentialing issues — no question. Oftentimes the training is undertaken in jurisdictions outside of British Columbia, but our staff and the early childhood education registry are fast-tracking those applications as they come forward.

We are working with the centres in terms of providing additional space, and indeed, we have a centre today that has space. We have a centre today that has some additional staff. We're going to do our very best to pull those together to continue to deliver child care services.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

C. Trevena: It's very interesting that the minister says that she is working with these centres. She was working with them last summer when we first started asking these questions — last spring. Since then we've got two gone and about 46 spaces gone. I'm a bit concerned about how the working is going to continue.

The minister really seems to fail to recognize the crisis. There is nothing in Whistler. There is almost nothing in Pemberton. In Squamish, yes, they got a new centre. In 2007 they were able to open their doors, but they didn't get the funding to create the spaces. So they have a centre there with 20 spaces, eight of which can't be opened because they can't get the staff to hire them.

[1415]

So I would like for the minister to actually understand the reality and explain to the people of Whistler how they are going to ensure that those 96 families, those people — plus the other 40 or so who have extra children who can't find space — are going to find child care in the next two months.

Hon. L. Reid: We continue to provide subsidies for 25,000 to 27,000 children each month to attend child care. We continue to open child care spaces across British Columbia — 6,000 new spaces. We, in fact, have doubled the number of child care spaces that we subsidize from 45,000 to 90,000.

Are we making progress in child care as we go forward? Absolutely, we are. Will we continue to work with the centres in Whistler? Yes. Is Whistler a unique situation? Yes. One of the individuals has absolutely indicated that enrolment is actually going down in one of those centres because those children are not attending today because they're enrolled in ski programs. So there are unique facets to this discussion that I would be happy to brief the member opposite on.

CLOSING OF COWICHAN LODGE

D. Routley: On January 27 John Plecas had his prostate surgery cancelled at Cowichan District Hospital. Since then, and after that time, he carried on in severe pain, one of many people who had their surgeries cancelled. The cancellation occurred because of a lack of bed space. One of the causes of that bed shortage was the closure of Cowichan Lodge. Several seniors now occupy beds awaiting placement. Why did this minister break his promise to close Cowichan Lodge?

Hon. G. Abbott: We've debated this extensively in this House before. I'm glad to remind the member that Cowichan Lodge was an outdated facility that did not meet the contemporary standards for residential care. It is unfortunate that the member doesn't appreciate the fine facility that has opened nearby at Sunridge Place. It is a wonderful facility by all accounts.

I think the Vancouver Island Health Authority made the right decision in terms of Cowichan Lodge. What we see at Cowichan and Duncan is both qualitatively and quantitatively a far better life for our seniors as a consequence of the investment of literally hundreds of millions of dollars in new seniors' facilities and far better lives for those that enjoy those facilities.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

D. Routley: The minister is just wrong. Cowichan Lodge is a good facility. Cowichan Lodge was an excellent facility. None of the staff, none of the families served made these complaints. This is an excuse for a closure that has caused 109 cancelled surgeries alone in the last year alone. The chief of surgery at Cowichan Hospital resigned over this lack of resources and cancelled surgeries. We've lost three anaesthetists. Two specialists

[ Page 14200 ]

recruited refused to come once they realized the cancellation rate at Cowichan Hospital.

This minister hides behind that excuse. Our community knows that he's wrong.

Will the minister reopen those beds at Cowichan Lodge and relieve the pressure at Cowichan Hospital? Why should John Plecas and all the other people served by that hospital pay for his broken promise?

Hon. G. Abbott: There's no broken promise except possibly on that side of the House. We promised an incremental 5,000 residential care and assisted-living beds and we've now delivered over 5,800 residential care and assisted-living beds.

To be clear, we will not be…. VIHA will not be revisiting the issue of the closure of Cowichan Lodge. Further to the member, Mr. Speaker…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

[1420]

Hon. G. Abbott: …while surgeries may on rare occasions be delayed, it is very rare that that occurs.

We always are disappointed when surgeries are delayed, but we perform across British Columbia literally hundreds of thousands of surgeries every year. Surgery on time is the rule. Delays are very much the exception, whether it's at Cowichan or any other hospital in this province.

The member is misconstruing the facts to try to make their ideological point once again.

ECONOMIC BENEFITs of OLYMPIC GAMES

H. Bains: The Premier was reluctant to admit B.C. would slide into recession, and then he was also reluctant to admit that B.C. would have to operate with a budget deficit.

However, even after admitting we would not avoid the pain of the global recession, he held fast to the fantasy that the recession would not impact the Olympics. Does he still maintain that B.C. will get the full economic benefit of the 2010 games as was anticipated earlier?

Hon. C. Hansen: The 12 economists that constitute our Economic Forecast Council were all unanimous in forecasting that British Columbia is going to lead Canada in economic growth in 2010. Without exception, they all indicated that it was because of the Olympics — one of the key reasons why B.C. was going to see such strong economic growth.

The Olympics, according to a study done by RBC a few years back, should generate in excess of $10 billion of economic activity. We're talking about literally thousands and thousands of jobs in British Columbia. Quite frankly, there is not a jurisdiction in the world that wouldn't give their eye teeth to be hosting the Olympics in February of 2010.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

H. Bains: Everyone is tightening their belt because of the world recession. Everyone is being hit by the economic slide. This minister continues to say that those numbers will help. My question to the minister is this. Has he decided to update those numbers, or is he maintaining that those numbers will be delivered?

Hon. C. Hansen: I get it that the NDP don't like the fact that the Olympics are coming, and they don't like the fact that they're actually the makings of one of the biggest success stories in this province. I get the fact that their leader, the Leader of the Opposition, did not support the Olympics from the outset. I get that.

But the vast majority of British Columbians are pretty excited about the Olympics. They're excited about the fact that 250,000 visitors are coming to B.C. They're excited about the fact that there are about 8,000 athletes coming to B.C. And they're excited about the fact that there are going to be 10,000 to 12,000 journalists from around the world who are going to come to witness what a great place British Columbia is to live, visit, invest in and raise a family.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

TRANSFER OF LYTTON LUMBER

FOREST LICENCE

H. Lali: Will the Minister of Forests please tell this House why he signed off on the transfer of Lytton Lumber's forest licence to Aspen Planers of Merritt? Also, will the minister please explain to the 60 unemployed workers and their families in Lytton — mostly first nations — why he agreed to transfer their forest licence and their jobs out of the community?

Hon. P. Bell: There's a straightforward process when it comes to licence decisions. I'm to review if there are any undue constraints with regards to competition in the area. There was consultation done with first nations, and I approved the transfer.

[1425]

Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental.

H. Lali: The minister must be dreaming, because there were no consultations that were done with the

[ Page 14201 ]

Lytton First Nation. I've got letters here to prove that the Lytton First Nation was not consulted.

Lytton Lumber was not only the most significant employer in town, but it was the only game in town. But thanks to this government's failed forest policies, Lytton Lumber went under just like dozens of other outfits across small towns in British Columbia. Without talking to the Lytton First Nation and the village council in Lytton or the 60 families who have lost all of their paycheques, this Liberal minister has killed any hopes of restoring jobs in the community of Lytton.

To the Minister of Forests: what can he possibly say at this time to the families of the unemployed workers in Lytton? How can the minister possibly justify killing their hopes and dreams by exporting their jobs out of the community?

Hon. P. Bell: The member is simply wrong. It's quite interesting that we heard from the previous questioner the acknowledgment of the challenges globally right now in the economy. Our forest industry is one of the successes.

In fact, I just saw today on one of the clips from the local media a $100 million sawmill opening in Adams Lake in the middle of April. Significant investments across this province. Licence decisions are made on a routine basis. This decision was put in front of me, the appropriate consultation was done, and I approved the licence transfer.

JUMBO GLACIER RESORT

N. Macdonald: The highly contentious Jumbo Glacier resort was scheduled to undergo another environmental assessment this upcoming October. Over Christmas the existing environmental assessment was extended for an additional five-year period.

As has become customary with this government, that extension was given despite the fact that the regional district of East Kootenay and the regional district of Central Kootenay specifically requested some time to make a presentation. That was denied. Why was the opportunity for local government input denied?

Hon. B. Bennett: I think we all know in this House that the NDP don't support the tourism industry. That's become quite clear over the past four years. They don't support….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Just take your seat for a second, Minister.

Continue, Minister.

Hon. B. Bennett: In 2004 when this government announced that we were going to actually double the amount of money given to Tourism B.C. to market this beautiful province to the rest of the world, the Leader of the Opposition said: "We don't support that." She said: "In fact, if we're elected, we will roll that back, and we will not double the funding going to Tourism B.C. to market tourism out of this province."

They obviously don't support the tourism industry. But you know, Mr. Speaker, there was a time when the other side of the House did actually recognize that tourism was an important industry for this province. Let me just read you what they used to say: "I hope that you will be able…."

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. B. Bennett: This is a quotation.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Continue, Minister.

Hon. B. Bennett: "I hope that you will be able to proceed on this project and that one day we may see this international venture realized." Premier Harcourt, February 24, 1993.

Interjections.

Hon. B. Bennett: Let me read one more.

Mr. Speaker: Thank you, Minister.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

The member has a supplemental.

N. Macdonald: The question was directed to the Minister of Environment for a reason. The last time I asked a question to this minister, he told me about the airport. There was no connection at all, and there's no connection here as well.

The question is clear. It is about the environmental assessment process. The regional district of Central Kootenay asked if they could participate in that process. That was denied, as has happened every time when the local voice wants to have a say in an issue that is clearly important — of fundamental importance.

[1430]

Andy Shadrack, who is the director, has written to the Ombudsman and said the following: "In relation to that resort, there are changes." There is the Glacier-Howser river diversion project, which will take five rivers and put them in 16 kilometres of tunnels that never return

[ Page 14202 ]

the water to the watershed. There's a 90-kilometre-long transmission line to Invermere, and that's very close to this proposed resort. There is also a government-financed grizzly study, which has markedly different findings than the original study. Both of those are two reasons why this environmental assessment should have been looked at.

One thing that has not changed is that 90 percent of the local people have opposition to the Jumbo Glacier resort, and that's the fundamental issue. What I want is a clear commitment that this project will only go ahead with the support of people in the Columbia Valley.

Mr. Speaker: Pose the question, Member.

N. Macdonald: I ask the Premier: will he give the assurance today that this project only proceeds with the support of the people in the Columbia Valley? Otherwise, no.

Hon. B. Bennett: Probably only the NDP would think that 18 years of process is not long enough to process a project. Only the NDP would think that. They want to have more committee meetings. They want to have more letters. They want to have more consultations. They want to spend more time before we decide this project.

However, there was a time….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat for a second.

Members.

Continue, Minister.

Hon. B. Bennett: Now, who was it that said: "Well-designed, self-contained and…"?

Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Member.

Hon. B. Bennett: Who was it? Who was it?

Mr. Speaker: Wrap it up, Minister.

Hon. B. Bennett: Who said this: "Well-designed…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. B. Bennett: "…self-contained and environmentally sustainable"? I'm not sure if they got that. I'm not sure they heard that.

"Environmentally sustainable destination resorts such as is being proposed here could provide considerable capacity in meeting these outdoor activities, using a very limited land base." Premier Clark, 1996.

[End of question period.]

M. Sather: I seek leave to present a petition.

Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

Petitions

M. Sather: I have a petition here from 588 residents calling on the government to save the Albion Ferry.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. de Jong: I call Committee of Supply — for the information of members, ongoing discussion on the supplementary estimates, Finance.

[1435]

Committee of Supply

supplementary estimates:

other appropriations

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply; K. Whittred in the chair.

The committee met at 2:37 p.m.

On Vote 45(S): contingencies (all ministries) and new programs, $125,000,000 (continued) .

B. Ralston: Following on what the minister said yesterday — that he anticipated that if the funds came to bring the $125 million into the budget, the expenditure of those funds "would flow out to organizations that are outside of the provincial government reporting entity." He said that that list was not fixed.

I have some colleagues who wish to direct some questions to the minister about potential uses of those contingency funds, and I'll turn it over to my colleague at this point.

C. Evans: I would like to start by asking: am I correct that the risk management branch and government security office is a division of the Ministry of Finance?

Hon. C. Hansen: Yes.

C. Evans: I would like to then canvass a study of that branch of the Ministry of Finance, with regard to ascertaining whether some of the $125 million may be going to rectify risks that have been identified by the ministry.

[ Page 14203 ]

But I don't want to behave like question period, and I want it to be a collaborative process. I would like to ask that these three copies of the report be taken to those three gentlemen right over there so that we're all working from exactly the same words.

Let the record show that I am passing to the minister and the minister's staff the risk identification survey for the Creston Valley Wildlife Management Authority. I do not know whether the minister or his staff are in possession of the same report. I don't wish to play any gotcha games here. I'm sharing what I have with them in case it's not in the binders that they have in this room.

My first question on that subject is: is the report of the risk identification survey for the Creston Wildlife Management Authority by the risk management branch and government security office a document with which he or his staff are conversant?

Hon. C. Hansen: I'm not familiar with it.

C. Evans: That was my expectation. I tried to ask the question to include the staff, in order that we might ascertain whether or not they were conversant with the report.

[1440]

However, for the enlightenment of all folks here and the minister, I'll just explain a little bit. This is not my report, of course. It is produced by the Ministry of Finance. The risk management branch is sometimes asked by the minister or by cabinet or by government generally to identify risk when it is believed that the assets of the Crown or the activities of the Crown or some way that we organize the workings of the Crown might create physical risk, environmental risk or financial risk to the Crown.

The report that the minister is now holding, conducted by the staff of the risk management branch, identifies a high….

Section 1.2, for the minister's keeping up here. The purpose of this risk identification was to "identify high-level strategic risks as well as operational risks arising out of the day-to-day operations of the Creston Valley wildlife management area."

Now, how does this fit into the estimates of the day? I submit that this report identifies physical risk, environmental risk and liability to the Crown of an immediate nature. In fact, the language in the paper identified its immediate nature. It is my belief that the $125 million, which the critic and the minister have been canvassing for two days here…. It identified that the $125 million which may accrue to the minister's office, should it arise, is available for projects as yet unidentified by the minister.

I wish to canvass the possibility that this report of the minister's own ministry identifies that there are critical issues in need of mitigation prior to an election or next month or next fiscal year. Not to do so leaves the Crown, this room, that ministry — all of us — at risk of liability.

Also identified in the report is not only liability but international condemnation. I bring your attention to

section 3.3. The Creston Valley wildlife management area — so that we understand — resulted from the Columbia River treaty, which Canada and the United States signed in the 1960s and resulted in dams on both sides of the border from Libby to Mica, flooding hundreds of thousands of acres of wetland used by swans and ducks and geese and international migratory fowl.

Because of previous treaties that say Mexico, the United States and Canada are all responsible for migratory fowl, the Creston Valley wildlife management area was created by the federal and provincial governments in order to — with pumps and dikes — create a substitute feeding and nesting area so that we weren't embarrassed by international treaty.

Section 3.3 suggests that the area has earned three international designations — I can explain them later; I don't want to waste your time — Ramsar, IBA and Impara. "Loss of these designations would result in embarrassment to British Columbia and also to Canada and could result in the loss of revenue from donations and fees. Maintenance of these designations without a strategy supported by the government will be difficult, if not impossible, to maintain."

It goes on to suggest that in order to not be embarrassed internationally, we need to develop a plan, and the plan itself might create a new risk.

Section 3.4: "It should be noted that a push for appropriate funds as a result of a plan may create a new risk. The cost of managing the area may exceed government's commitment to the area." Certainly we have to resolve that.

Now we come to the physical risk — the possibility of being sued with the spring freshet which, as you know, hon. Chair, will happen before we meet here again.

Section 4.1: "The dikes and control structures in the area have not been properly maintained." This is the ministry's own words. This is their risk management division. "Failure of the inner dikes will negatively impact the operations of the authority and will likely result in the loss of wildlife habitat. Failure of the outer dikes will negatively impact neighbouring farms and will likely result in a liability claim against the government."

[1445]

It goes on to suggest that the pumps are inadequate and injury to trespassers will likely result in a liability claim against the government and against the Wildlife Management Authority. There are no backups for these pumps and no redundancy and capacity during freshet. There is no preventative maintenance program in place for the pumps.

The recommendation is that the authority should survey the dikes and then develop a repair strategy. Repairs should be prioritized based on risk of failure.

I bring it up because we have right now $125 mil-

[ Page 14204 ]

lion which may be available to the Ministry of Finance. We're not going to meet again before spring freshet, and the risk management branch identifies that there's no backup system for the pumps. That part of the Creston Valley…. I mean, everybody lives in the Fraser Valley. The minister over here understands that. That part of the valley is defended with dikes which are the responsibility of the Crown.

It gets worse, in terms of physical liability to the citizens. It says there are a number of unused and unmaintained barns and the like. "A number of these structures are in extremely dangerous condition, and these structures create an attractive nuisance which could easily cause injuries and result in liability claims."

The viewing tower is in a dangerous condition, and it recommends that the viewing tower should be closed to the public — I presume before we meet again, hon. Chair — and secured until such time as it can be made safe or else torn down.

It goes on to talk about enforcement, because it's 6,000 hectares. It's a jewel. It's huge, and there's nobody there to keep trespassers from being injured or doing damage. It says there are not enough employees to ensure that the Wildlife Act is enforced.

In other words, we have

an act…. This room passed

an act, and we've got nobody out there to enforce it. "Lack of enforcement results in a number of risks, including dumping, vandalism and unauthorized and inappropriate use of the lands within the area. In addition to the risk that the authority will not meet its mandate, these exposures could result in significant costs to the province" — increasing the amount of money we have to spend.

There's a recommendation to ensure that there's enough trained and qualified staff in place to carry out the enforcement activities. In terms of habitat maintenance, listen to this: "To properly maintain the ponds" — that's where the ducks and geese nest and feed — "the ponds need to be drawn down and maintained on a frequency of two ponds per year. The wildlife management area has not done a single pond in five years. Lack of maintenance will result in a loss of this important waterfowl habitat. Continued loss of habitat will likely result in the loss of international designations that that area has earned."

This province and this room stand at risk, as a result, of huge embarrassment. International Ramsar designation means that the whole world looks at us and says: "This is important. You are good people." The risk says we're going to lose it.

The recommendation is: "Immediately restore the required habitat maintenance schedule." That's seven words. Blank. Fix it immediately. That would mean today.

There's an employer's liability too —

section 4.6 for the minister. This is kind of important. It says that we have employees out there who may sue us. Risk management — not the member for Nelson-Creston, not the people that work there. The Ministry of Finance says that we have employees that are inadequately covered and might sue us.

"The Creston Valley Wildlife Act specifies that the employees may be appointed under the Public Service Act. They have not been appointed and have not received pay, benefits or pensions comparable to what they would have received had they been employed by any other act of the Crown entity. There is a distinct risk that an employee may bring action against the authority" — that's us — "to recover any amounts they may have received if they had been employed under the act by a similar entity."

So here's the recommendation, hon. Chair, through you to the minister or to us: "Obtain a legal opinion to determine the authority's exposure to an employee's liability claim arising out of this situation. If the likelihood of a successful claim is moderate to high, consideration should be given to entering into settlement discussions with the impacted employees."

[1450]

I hope that I have successfully made a case that the risk management department of the Ministry of Finance has identified liability risk, employee contractual relationship risk, flooding risk, wildlife risk and international political risk to our reputation from the literal falling apart of the wildlife management area.

I want to make this clear and put it on the record. I blame nobody. This slow decline has been going on since the federal government withdrew financing in the 1980s, but never before, until this day, did we have a report by a ministry of the Crown identifying that we are at risk.

You know how it works, hon. Chair. When a public document identifies risk, we then have to deal with the risk, or we're liable. It isn't like we didn't know. It's like we just got told.

Is it possible that some of the $125 million which may accrue to the ministry could be applied precisely to deal with this risk during this fiscal year?

The Chair: Before I recognize you, Minister, I just want to mention that I have been listening to this very carefully, and I do seek some comment from the minister about the relevancy of this to the vote.

Hon. C. Hansen: It is with the greatest of respect to the member that…. I acknowledge that this is an important report. I think, actually, that it's a great testament to some of the excellent public servants that we have in the risk management branch for what appears to be a very thorough look at these activities. That report was just finished, actually, a few weeks ago, and it is now in the hands of the Ministry of Environment to do their follow-up on. But it is not relevant to the debate that we're having on the floor at this time.

C. Evans: Might I ask: if any of the liabilities identified in the report were to take place in this fiscal year, would the cost of the liability then fall back to the Creston

[ Page 14205 ]

Valley wildlife management area, which the report itself says is broke?

Hon. C. Hansen: Nothing is anticipated.

C. Evans: I would agree that nothing is anticipated. That's how we got to this place. We kind of let it fall down because we didn't anticipate it. Am I not correct that once we identify risk, we are then responsible to mitigate it or that that's a legal acknowledgment of responsibility?

Hon. C. Hansen: That is exactly why the risk management branch undertook a report like this. This is information that would not be available otherwise. Now that those risks have been identified, they're before the Ministry of Environment, which is looking at them. But it is not relevant to this debate that we are having this afternoon.

The Chair: Member, just if you would be cautioned by my previous remarks and perhaps move on to some questioning more relevant to the vote.

C. Evans: I really appreciate your previous remarks and the minister's remarks, and I very much appreciate that they did the report. I think it's wonderful work, and I agree with everybody. It's just that if the Ministry of Finance says that there's risk and we don't deal with it here….

If it's inappropriate here, my question is: if somebody gets hurt or the dikes are breached, is the Creston Valley wildlife management area responsible because we didn't deal with it in this room on this day?

Hon. C. Hansen: There are other statutory provisions for emergency measures. Therefore, the points he is making are not relevant to the debate. They're important points. I don't want to diminish them. There are other opportunities in the legislative calendar for this issue to be canvassed thoroughly, but this is not the opportunity.

C. Evans: I don't really wish to argue with the minister, because I wish to work with him in a collaborative fashion to resolve this question. I'm hoping this might be my last.

I get it that both you and the minister would like me to leave this subject, which is dear to my heart and — I'm sure the minister would understand — dear to the people who live there and actually to generations of people who put this management area for wildfowl in place.

I think that the physical plant has been identified to be at risk prior to the legislative opportunities in future for this building to deal with it, and I think the Crown is at risk. But way more than that, I think the wildlife management area and its board are at risk.

[1455]

The report identifies that one member of the board is actually at liability and is not covered by the indemnity of the Crown or the federal government. So I think we've got to deal with it.

To move on, would the minister be willing to meet with the manager of the wildlife area, the MLA and the Minister of Environment at some point during the next three weeks, while we are here, to see if we can put together a next-step or a short-term mitigation-of-liability plan?

Hon. C. Hansen: I do hope we'll get back to the issue that's at hand. But in response to the member, he should direct that inquiry and that request for a meeting to the Minister of Environment.

C. Evans: I will, and I appreciate the answer.

I will change the question a little bit. If I approached the Minister of Environment and the Minister of Environment is willing to grant a meeting and the manager of the Creston Valley wildlife area is willing to come during the next three weeks, will the Minister of Finance be available to attend the meeting?

Hon. C. Hansen: This is an area where the Minister of Environment is clearly the lead minister on an issue like this. I'm sure that my colleague would welcome a request from the member.

C. Evans: I obviously don't understand. When the risk management branch of the Ministry of Finance writes a report, doesn't the report go to the Minister of Finance?

G. Gentner: I'll probably be very brief here. I've been on a fishing expedition for some time, asking various questions on where the money is going.

I've been to the Community Development Minister and, of course, the Minister of Transportation on various projects. I know there are some grants that are to be, hopefully, awarded somewhere by the government, and perhaps the minister can share them with me relative to my community in North Delta.

Delta has applied through various forums and means to various ministries for funding and specifically in my community of North Delta for completion for a shovel-ready project for operation of the Sungod aquatic centre. Can the minister enlarge upon that or share with me whether or not his ministry will be granting money towards such a project?

Hon. C. Hansen: That subject was thoroughly canvassed with the Minister of Community Development.

G. Gentner: Therefore, I would imagine that the answer is no. There's no money coming forward from the Ministry of Finance.

[ Page 14206 ]

Hon. C. Hansen: I would recommend to the member that he go back and read the Hansard from yesterday afternoon, when his colleague from Surrey-Whalley asked me about this fund. I indicated that no decisions have been made with regard to how dollars from this $125 million would be allocated, and no decisions will be made until we are certain that the revenues are going to materialize. He may want to go back and review that conversation that his colleague and I had yesterday afternoon.

G. Gentner: Just so I have this correct. This is referring to all projects, whether it be in Surrey or Delta? There have been no decisions on any projects relative to Delta. Is that correct?

Hon. C. Hansen: He's actually directing the question to the wrong minister. What this is, is an allocation to a contingency, and it will only be utilized once we are confident that the revenue side will materialize. I know he had an opportunity to canvass this question with the Minister of Community Development.

B. Ralston: I think what the member was referring to was the minister's comments of yesterday. I'm reading from his remarks of yesterday: "…we will, first of all, do the work that needs to be done to confirm that revenues will materialize, and then we will decide to try and look at what the appropriate priorities for it should be."

My understanding of what the minister said and the advice I have given to colleagues is that in the event that the revenue does materialize, the ministry would be devising priorities to spend that revenue on appropriate priorities. Given that there are — and the minister has given some idea of what those priorities might be — certainly organizations outside the government reporting entity….

[1500]

I think what the member before and this member just moments ago have been trying to do is make suggestions to the minister as to what those spending priorities might be, understanding that the revenue may not materialize. I understand the caution of the Chair, but I don't see that the debate needs to be cut off in that sense.

I do have a question for the minister. There have been a series of government announcements about infrastructure. One of the programs is a $2 billion program on infrastructure, of which there will be a billion dollars in federal funding, and rolling out over three years is a plan to spend a billion dollars in infrastructure in the province.

Again, understanding that the government revenues may not materialize to fund this contingency, does the minister see infrastructure projects as one possible avenue for what he's called appropriate priorities, should the revenue materialize?

Hon. C. Hansen: That's a possibility. As you know, we have sought appropriate projects that could make a difference in creating jobs for British Columbians in the short term. That is certainly a priority for this government.

B. Ralston: Beyond simply the bald statement that the minister has just made, what is the process by which appropriate priorities would be determined? Again, understanding that revenue may not materialize and that these would be contingency spending plans, if I could put it that way, what would be the process that would be gone through in order to determine those priorities?

Hon. C. Hansen: I think, as I indicated yesterday afternoon, our first priority would be to identify those organizations that may be hoping for and expecting grant allocations in the coming two years that we may be able to flow from this fiscal year and thereby relieve some of the pressures that may otherwise be on our fiscal plan for the next two years which, as the member knows, is going to be extremely tight for us.

When it comes to infrastructure spending working with municipalities, there is a process for that today. It's the Building Canada fund. We have been actively soliciting applications from municipalities and other regional governments, and that is in process.

In terms of these year-end dollars — the $125 million — that would not be going to fund Building Canada dollars because the Building Canada dollars that we require to match the federal program, as was announced last year or the year before, are already built into the operating budgets. We will be able to flow those dollars without having to impact on these additional contingency dollars.

S. Herbert: The other day the minister mentioned the B.C. Arts Council and some possibility that these funds might find their way there. I wondered if the minister might explain in greater detail what he was thinking at that time.

Hon. C. Hansen: I think what I was referring to were the additional dollars that were in other parts, not in this vote but actually in the vote of the Minister of Tourism, Culture and the Arts, which were the additional moneys that would flow as a result of this broader supplemental estimate — but not part of this specific vote.

There are, certainly, arts organizations that may be able to benefit from these year-end dollars if, in fact, they materialize, but I would not want to speculate at this point. As I said yesterday, I want to be very careful not to give any organizations any false expectations that they may be able to expect grants or other dollars to flow until such time as we're 100 percent confident that the revenues are there.

S. Herbert: Would these dollars be potentially…? I understand the concern that you don't want to count

[ Page 14207 ]

the chickens before they're hatched, because who knows, these days? Would these potentially be available for capital infrastructure for arts and culture organizations?

[1505]

Hon. C. Hansen: Again, I wouldn't want to give any false expectations to anyone, but in terms of dollars that would flow to an organization outside of the provincial government's financial reporting entity, whether or not those organizations used it as grants or as capital…. Again, it depends what would be put forward, but there certainly would be nothing that would restrict the use of a contingency appropriation for capital purposes.

B. Ralston: Can the minister advise, then: what would be the mechanism for public notification, or at least notification through the government accounting procedure, so that members of the Legislature might know whether this revenue has arrived? When would the government propose to reveal…? If there were additional revenue, by what manner would the government reveal its plans for what the minister has called appropriate priorities to spend this contingency money?

Hon. C. Hansen: The formal process whereby the assembly is advised of what available revenues were there at year-end and what expenditures were made against the revenues in the fiscal year would be public accounts.

B. Ralston: The full public accounts are not reported until the end of June. Given what the minister has said about the possibility — and, again, I stress the possibility — of grants to organize the funds that might "flow to organizations that are outside of the provincial government reporting entity," I'm wondering what the mechanism is by which organizations might find that those funds were available and that they might make a request or make an application for that funding.

Hon. C. Hansen: Throughout the year the government receives many, many requests from outside organizations. Most of them, as the member would know, we cannot respond to favourably just because of limited dollars. As we come down to year-end and we can identify additional resources that may be available, we would try to review some of those requests that have come in during the year. We would be notifying those organizations appropriately before the end of fiscal year.

B. Ralston: The organizations that the ministry is already aware of would be notified prior to the end of this fiscal year, then. Is that what I understood him to say?

Hon. C. Hansen: Correct.

B. Ralston: And if the ministry is not aware of an organization, how might organizations — without beginning a deluge — enter into that process? What would be the mechanism for an organization to do that?

Hon. C. Hansen: In most cases these would be requests that would have come in through ministers' offices and things that they think would be worthy but did not have budget room to fund. I know that there is a very, very long list of organizations and opportunities that have not been funded because of funds not being available.

B. Ralston: I'm sure the minister won't want it to be taken to be said that that's restricted to ministers, so will the minister confirm that individual members of the Legislature, should they be approached by organizations who have made those kinds of requests, could forward that to the minister or to the appropriate ministry?

Hon. C. Hansen: Certainly, if the member was aware of such a circumstance, he could direct that information to me. But I would also just want to caution him that even if all of the revenues materialized, there is a very long list of organizations that would love to be able to have the benefit of it. So I would caution the member not to go out and solicit new opportunities, because it is going to be a very limited pot from which those resources can be drawn.

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B. Ralston: Again, speaking hypothetically, should the revenue materialize and should the minister be considering these applications or requests from ministries or from individuals, when would he expect those decisions to be made and to become public?

Hon. C. Hansen: As we can confirm that revenues are in fact materializing in a way that we are confident of, then decisions will be made basically throughout the month of March.

B. Ralston: Looking on the reverse side, if the revenue doesn't materialize, when will the minister be certain of that and do the reverse — in other words, advise groups that there's no money available for requests?

Hon. C. Hansen: This is not a list of projects where people are waiting for yeses or noes. If the groups or outside bodies that may be able to benefit from that haven't heard by the end of the day on March 31, they can take it that there were not additional dollars available. We will only be committing additional dollars as we can confirm revenues.

J. Horgan: I'm pleased to rise and participate in the discussion with the minister today about a potential $125

[ Page 14208 ]

million. I'm wondering if the minister could clarify for members of the House what criteria would be in play.

The member has talked about a list of projects or organizations who have come to government over the fiscal year seeking assistance. Where do you start? If these groups or organizations have not received funding…. It's March 4. Some of those groups will have fallen away. They will have found funding elsewhere. So what criteria will the government use to apportion this revenue?

Hon. C. Hansen: Contingencies by their nature are dealt with on basically a file-by-file basis. We do have programs across government. I mentioned earlier the Building Canada Fund where local governments and municipalities can apply for funding under that for one-third federal, one-third provincial. There are very specific criteria, and local governments can apply on the basis of those criteria.

That's just one example. Across government there are numerous programs that have specific criteria. The very nature of contingency is that it is there. Each proposal is evaluated basically on its merits, and it's not part of broad criteria, as would be the case in something like a Building Canada Fund.

J. Horgan: In my constituency of Malahat–Juan de Fuca there's a project, the restoration of the Kinsol Trestle. The member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head and I were very pleased to announce a $1.5 million contribution from the Vancouver Island trust fund.

I visited the trestle with the previous Minister of Tourism, the member for Richmond Centre. She also spoke in favour of the heritage aspects of this trestle and the importance of linking the south side of the bridge with the north side of the bridge crossing the Koksilah River.

The community needs about a million dollars, maybe a million and a half dollars, to proceed with restoration of this historic trestle and complete the Trans Canada Trail on Vancouver Island. I know it has the full support of the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head, whose ministry name now is confusing to me, so I won't recite it. I know it certainly had the support of the member for Richmond Centre when she was the Minister of Tourism, and I know the member for East Kootenay, also an avid supporter of heritage, would lend his voice and support to the Kinsol Trestle project.

I don't believe that it is on anyone's desk right now. I know the Minister of Transportation, or the ministry, has about a million and a half dollars, almost $2 million, to put toward the restoration project. So we're very, very close. Government ministries are coming from different points with cash for this initiative.

I would suggest that if there is revenue lying around, this project would be an ideal candidate. But it doesn't, as I've been listening to the minister, fit any of the criteria that he has suggested. I'm wondering how I could amend that position and get it at the top of the pile. Does the minister have any advice for me and my constituents?

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Hon. C. Hansen: First of all, just to correct the member, there is not cash lying around, and there will not be cash lying around. We have a very, very long list of demands that are against whatever cash funds may come available, and that we're not sure of.

In terms of the Kinsol Trestle, I'm pleased that the Island Coastal Economic Trust was able to provide funding. That is a result of the $50 million that the province of British Columbia transferred to the trust when the trust was established by this government. It's something that I know residents of Vancouver Island and the Sunshine Coast have been very appreciative of — to give them that opportunity.

There's also, as I understand it, about $1.6 million that has been allocated directly from the province of British Columbia, as a result of the good work done by the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head and her advocacy on behalf of that. I think, out of the LocalMotion fund, there was also a significant contribution in the $1 million to $2 million range that went into the Kinsol trail.

There are programs that exist in ministries that can help fund programs such as this. I encourage the member to do as all members in this House do, and that's to look at how best we can assist community organizations to tap into those various funds.

J. Horgan: I certainly am always pleased to be at events with the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head because she always brings a chequebook, or at least most of the time. She's often there when the federal government is bringing their chequebook and the provincial dollars are conspicuous by their absence.

But in this instance, the minister is quite right. For the past three years I have been working with government ministers across the board — the Minister of Transportation, the Minister of Tourism and the Minister of, previously, Small Business. I apologize to the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head. I can't remember the name of the ministry, and she might forget it, too, because it's been changing over the past couple of weeks.

Government is invested in this project, Minister. I appreciate that this is potential revenue we're talking about, but the expectation of members — certainly on this side of the House, and I would expect on the other side of the House — is if we come across $125 million in revenue, as the minister is hopeful we will, that projects that we have already dedicated resources toward would rise to the top of the list.

[ Page 14209 ]

My question with respect to…. The Kinsol project, which, as I say, the member for Richmond Centre, the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head and the Minister of Transportation have all devoted some energy toward, is a worthwhile undertaking. Certainly, I would be pleased to see the minister arrive with the cheque to put this project over the top, should he come across $125 million in revenue. My opportunity today to advance that initiative is in these estimates.

Again, could the minister commit to my constituents that, should we come across the $125 million that we're discussing today, the Kinsol Trestle, based on the interventions by other ministries, the moneys that have been found to get us very close to realizing the project will be elevated and perhaps receive some of this funding?

Hon. C. Hansen: The first stage in this is for government to ask the House for the authority for this appropriation. Should that authority be granted, the next stage is for the Ministry of Finance to finalize its revenue projections for year-end, and only if we can identify that additional dollars should be available that fit within that appropriation will any decisions be made with regard to how the dollars should be allocated.

M. Sather: I'm pleased to address the issue with regard to my community and some of the needs that we have. Hopefully, the minister — through whatever process, as nebulous as it may be at the moment — will be able to help because the need is there.

Our arts council has virtually no funding. What they do get mostly comes from the local government. We're really struggling, too, because we have a viable festival society — or we did have, in Maple Ridge — and they do some of the jazz and blues festivals, the Caribbean festival and a number of others that are very successful, but it's being disbanded due to a lack of funds. That's really going to affect the cultural activities of Maple Ridge and reduce the viability of our community.

[1520]

Those are the kinds of dollars that would be really well spent, and we're hopeful that if the minister does come upon these moneys, some of that will be spent in Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows. A mobile stage was going to be part of the expanding festival society in Maple Ridge but now is very much in doubt.

A couple of other things I'd like to mention. Dance groups are a big thing in Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows. We have several very successful dance groups, and it would be helpful for them as well because there's a lack of affordable venues. We do have a theatre, but it's really not affordable for a lot of the small groups — well, not just small groups but for the younger kids.

Pitt Meadows needs a facility, a community centre that can provide affordable space for dance groups and small dance theatres. Our arts centre itself does have needs for maintenance and upgrades.

I guess, from what I've heard so far…. Obviously, there's not a question as to how much money could be coming to our community — is not the case…. It would not be forthcoming. I'm trying to understand, and I'd just like to ask the minister a little bit more, too, about how they…? Should this contingency come to fruition, how the government…? What is the time frame? I'm sorry. I apologize to the minister because I wasn't able to make the beginning of the debate, if the minister has already explained some of this.

I understand that no decisions will be made before the end of the fiscal year, but what is the time frame after that? Would there be any time in the next fiscal year? How long will communities have to wait to find out if the money does come through?

Hon. C. Hansen: This has been thoroughly canvassed. This is an appropriation for a contingency for this fiscal year. Therefore — assuming the House approves this and assuming that the revenues can be confirmed — decisions will be made prior to the end of March with regard to how any expenditures will flow from this appropriation.

I can tell the member that with regard to Arts Council funding in the coming fiscal year, in '08-09, Arts Council funding is up by $800,000 next year from what was in this current fiscal year. That's in addition to Arts Council funding that's in this current budget. I know the minister responsible just last week or the week before announced $6.2 million worth of grants that were recommended by the Arts Council.

In addition to that, there was actually, as part of a previous vote, as part of these supplemental estimates, another $7 million that was going into arts funding in the province. So I would recommend that the member make his case to the Ministry of Tourism, Culture and the Arts.

M. Sather: Well, that's certainly hopeful — the money that is going to be forthcoming. I am sure that a good chunk of that is going to come to Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows because we do have a very active arts council, have had for many years, and they make very good use of any money that they receive.

I do want to ask the minister one more question, though, with regard to the process, and this is where I'm struggling a little bit with it. Everything I've heard from the minister indicates that he really can't tell us very much because it won't be really known until, I guess, sometime between now and the end of March, which isn't very long, because he said it all has to be spent in this fiscal.

[ Page 14210 ]

But how can we, as a body at large here, make an informed decision as to whether or not we should support the request when we virtually have hardly any information on which to go?

Hon. C. Hansen: This is actually consistent with the way that the main estimates are presented. I think if the member wants to look at the main estimates that were tabled on budget day, he will see that for the coming year, we actually have built into that budget a contingency. It's to allow government for appropriation for measures that may not fit into other budgets.

[1525]

So that's what this is before us today. It's in that same vein, and this is basically to allow for appropriation that will only actually have expenditures against it should we be able to confirm that the revenues are there to support it.

As I said at the outset of this debate yesterday afternoon, this is not a year that I think we should end the fiscal year with a great big surplus. Given the state of the economy, we want to make sure that the maximum numbers of dollars are put back into the economy. We don't want to make commitments by government for expenditures that would be over and above what our revenues are because that would put us into deficit, and we've made it quite clear that we will not end this fiscal year in deficit.

But we do want to be able to plan it with as small a surplus as possible so that the maximum amount of money can flow into the economy, and this is the vehicle by which we can do that.

G. Coons: I just have a couple of questions about a few concerns in my riding, Minister. I've just been dealing with a bridge in Ocean Falls. The Premier and the Minister of Transportation, I think, have received concerns about this. It's a provincially maintained bridge in Ocean Falls, and it just went down last June. It's a vital component into the community. There is concern from the regional district, the local economic development commission and the citizens there.

There's a proposal coming up with the CCRD, the Central Coast regional district, at their next meeting with their concerns about how Ocean Falls has been a contributor to the central coast for the past century, continues to be and is vital. There's a government-owned bridge that collapsed. It's causing considerable disruption in the community, and it's deemed to be a vital link in the community.

I just wanted to get this on record that there is a concern. The Premier has been notified, and the Minister of Transportation knows about it, I'm sure. I'm just wondering how funds could be distributed or if there is a way that Ocean Falls can access some of the funding we're talking about.

Hon. C. Hansen: I think if the community has made representation to the Ministry of Transportation, that would be the appropriate avenue.

G. Coons: I'll ensure that the minister himself gets some documentation so that he realizes and we all realize the importance of it.

One other project. I received communications from the Minister of Education about Sir Alexander Mackenzie School in Bella Coola. They had some water damage. The gym floor buckled up, and they've had people looking at it. She assured that the ministry is committed to providing the school district with the necessary support to deal with the issue.

It's the only gym in the whole Bella Coola region, the whole valley, that can support the community. It's a vital link to what happens in the community as far as sports and other entertainment and plays and cultural events. Again, I just wanted to get it on the record. I will pass on to the minister any documentation that I have.

But again, I want to ask the minister the best way of getting this on his plate for the infrastructure funding.

Hon. C. Hansen: I think if the member has brought this to the attention of the Ministry of Education, that is the appropriate route.

Vote 45(S): contingencies (all ministries) and new programs, $125,000,000 — approved.

Hon. C. Hansen: I move that the committee rise and report resolution.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 3:30 p.m.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

The Committee of Supply reported resolution.

Mr. Speaker: When shall the report be considered?

Hon. C. Hansen: Forthwith. Mr. Speaker, I move that the reports of the resolution from the Committee of Supply on February 23, 24, 25, 26, March 2, March 3 and March 4, 2009, be now received, taken as read and agreed to.

Motion approved.

Hon. C. Hansen: I move that there be granted from and out of the consolidated revenue fund the sum of $622 million. This sum is in addition to that authorized

[ Page 14211 ]

to be paid under

section 1 of the Supply Act, 2008-2009, and is granted to Her Majesty towards defraying the charges and expenses of the public service of the province for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009.

Motion approved.

Hon. C. Hansen: I also move that there be granted from and out of the consolidated revenue fund the sum of $180 million. This sum is in addition to that authorized to be paid under

section 2 of the Supply Act, 2008-2009, and is granted to Her Majesty towards defraying the capital expenses, loans, investments and other financing requirements of the province for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009.

Motion approved.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

SUPPLY ACT, 2008-2009

(SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES)

Hon. C. Hansen presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Supply Act, 2008-2009 (Supplementary Estimates).

Hon. C. Hansen: This Supply Act formally introduces and requests approval of the estimates as have been presented to the Committee of Supply.

I move first reading.

Motion approved.

Hon. M. de Jong: I wonder if we might recess for ten minutes to let the bill be distributed.

Mr. Speaker: The House stands in recess until 3:45 p.m.

The House recessed from 3:34 p.m. to 3:43 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Hon. C. Hansen: Consistent with the Budget Transparency and Accountability Act, this supply bill is introduced to provide additional funds for the operation of government programs for the 2008-2009 fiscal year, as outlined in the supplemental estimates tabled earlier.

In accordance with the established practice of this House, the government seeks to move this bill through all stages this day.

Mr. Speaker: In keeping with the practice of this House, the bill will be permitted to advance through all stages in one sitting.

Bill 3, Supply Act, 2008-2009 (Supplementary Estimates), introduced, read a first time and ordered to proceed to second reading forthwith.

Second Reading of Bills

Supply Act, 2008-2009

(Supplementary Estimates)

Hon. C. Hansen: I move that Bill 3 be now read a second time.

Motion approved.

Hon. C. Hansen: I move that the bill be now referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration forthwith.

Bill 3, Supply Act, 2008-2009 (Supplementary Estimates), read a second time and ordered to proceed to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration forthwith.

[1545]

Committee of the Whole House

Supply Act, 2008-2009

(Supplementary Estimates)

The House in Committee of the Whole on Bill 3; S. Hammell in the chair.

The committee met at 3:46 p.m.

B. Ralston: I just wanted to confirm the advice I received from the Clerk that no stages of this bill are debatable.

The Chair: That is correct.

Sections 1 to 3 inclusive approved.

Schedules 1 and 2 approved.

Preamble approved.

Title approved.

Hon. C. Hansen: I move that the committee rise and report the bill complete without amendment.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 3:47 p.m.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

[ Page 14212 ]

Report and

Third Reading of Bills

Supply Act, 2008-2009

(Supplementary Estimates)

Bill 3, Supply Act, 2008-2009 (Supplementary Estimates), reported complete without amendment, read a third time and passed.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

Supply Act (No. 1), 2009

Hon. C. Hansen presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Supply Act (No. 1), 2009.

Hon. C. Hansen: Mr. Speaker, I move that Bill 5 be introduced and read a first time now.

Motion approved.

Hon. C. Hansen: This supply bill is being introduced to provide interim supply for the continuation of government programs until the government's estimates for the 2009-2010 fiscal year have been debated and voted upon in this assembly.

Interim supply is being requested for government-voted operating expenses for the initial five months of the '09-10 fiscal year, based on the '09-10 estimates that are currently before the House. Bill 5 also seeks supply for two-thirds of the '09-10 voted disbursements in those estimates for capital expenditures, loans, investments and other requirements and all of the 2009-10 disbursements for revenues collected for and transferred to other entities.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 5, Supply Act (No. 1), 2009, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Ministerial Accountability

Bases Act, 2008-2009

Hon. M. de Jong presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2008-2009.

Hon. M. de Jong: I move that Bill 4 be introduced and read a first time now.

Motion approved.

[1550]

Hon. M. de Jong: Mr. Speaker, the Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2008-2009, provides for increases in the amount of operating expenses for the Ministries of Community Development; Advanced Education and Labour Market Development; Finance; Forests and Range; Housing and Social Development; Health Services; Labour and Citizens' Services; Public Safety and Solicitor General; Tourism, Culture and the Arts; Transportation and Infrastructure; and for contingencies, all ministries and new programs, for purposes of ministerial accountability under the Balanced Budget and Ministerial Accountability Act.

The additional amounts for the Ministers of Community Development; Advanced Education and Labour Market Development; Finance; Housing and Social Development; Health Services; Labour and Citizens' Services; Tourism, Culture and the Arts; and Transportation and Infrastructure were included in the supplementary estimates, estimates that have just been debated and passed in this Legislature.

The additional amounts for the Minister of Forests and Range and the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General are to account for statutory costs related to forest fire fighting under the Wildfire Act and flood costs and disaster relief under the Emergency Program Act respectively.

I move that Bill 4 be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 4, Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2008-2009, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Hon. M. de Jong: I call second reading of Bill 2.

Second Reading of Bills

Budget Measures

Implementation Act, 2009

Hon. C. Hansen: I move that Bill 2, the Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2009, be read a second time now.

Bill 2 is divided into two parts. The first part deals with non-tax budget measures. The second implements the tax changes included in the budget.

Part 1 of Bill 2 provides for the ongoing operation of the B.C. Timber Sales account during this current downturn in the forest industry. B.C. Timber Sales establishes market prices for Crown timber and provides competitive opportunities for timber harvesting.

Over the past ten years B.C. Timber Sales has provided almost $1 billion in income to the general fund. However, timber markets have declined during the

[ Page 14213 ]

recent downturn in the forest industry, and B.C. Timber Sales is experiencing cash flow problems. As B.C. Timber Sales needs to continue in its market pricing mandate, it is necessary to return to the account some of its previous earnings in order for it to be able to continue operations.

[S. Hammell in the chair.]

Bill 2 amends the Financial Administration Act to reflect a change in how capital funding for schools, post-secondary institutions, health facilities and other major capital projects is appropriated from the consolidated revenue fund. Previously, capital funding was issued as prepaid capital advances, a type of financing transaction that was capitalized on the consolidated revenue fund balance sheet.

The amounts being appropriated were not part of an individual vote nor any ministers' accountabilities under the Balanced Budget and Ministerial Accountability Act. Due to the inclusion of schools, post-secondary institutions and health facilities in the government reporting entity, capitalization of this funding is no longer necessary or appropriate. Therefore, beginning in the 2009-10 estimates, capital funding is being made a separate vote within other appropriations in order to provide greater transparency and enable accountability for this expense through the provisions of the Balanced Budget and Ministerial Accountability Act.

The provisions in the Financial Administration Act have been simplified, the Minister of Finance given statutory authority to supplement the appropriation in the capital funding vote in order to be able to deal with the changing situations where additional capital funding is required to meet project needs.

Bill 2 re-establishes an exemption for government ministries from fees charged by the Land Title and Survey Authority through amendments to the Land Act and the Land Title Act.

The Land Title and Survey Authority is an independent agency that provides land registry and survey services to British Columbians. The authority funds its appropriation from a fee revenue, a portion of which flows back to government. The Land Title and Survey Authority has been very successful in its first years of operation, setting and meeting high standards for quality service and gaining the respect of users across the province.

When the authority was first created, ministries were exempted from paying land title fees, and then the exemption was phased out in subsequent years. However, accounting for the fees paid by government to the authority and then flowed back to government under the revenue-sharing agreement with the authority is cumbersome and expensive.

[1555]

The exemption is being reinstated to streamline practices and simplify accounting for transactions between government and the authority. It will also result in cost savings for ministries during the current restraint period. This will not result in any increase in land title fees or in any additional cost to the public.

Bill 2 also includes a number of housekeeping measures that are required for ongoing administration of various statutes. These include amendments to the Balanced Budget and Ministerial Accountability Act to reflect the windup of the former Ministry of Small Business and Revenue, and transfers to the Minister of Finance the revenue targets previously held by the Minister of Small Business and Revenue.

Secondly, the Budget Transparency and Accountability Act is amended to mandate continuation of the Accounting Policy Advisory Committee beyond its current expiry date of March 31, 2009.

The Special Accounts Appropriation and Control Act is amended to allow private donations to the BC150 cultural fund and to enable accounting for the children's education fund according to generally accepted accounting principles.

Finally, the Land Tax Deferment Act, to make the reimbursement to municipalities for deferred property taxes a statutory appropriation, clarifying the legislation for administrative purposes.

Part 2 of Bill 2 amends six tax statutes to implement some of the revenue measures announced in Budget 2009. Bill 2 amends the Income Tax Act to implement the government's plan to reduce the corporate income tax rate from 11 percent to 10.5 percent effective January 1, 2010, and to 10 percent effective January 1, 2011. At 10 percent British Columbia will have the lowest provincial corporate income tax rate in Canada.

Other amendments to the Income Tax Act will encourage continued investment in British Columbia, investment which has positioned us to weather the current downturn and take full advantage of the coming recovery. To this end, the extension of the B.C. mining flow-through share tax credit will continue to encourage individuals to invest in British Columbia's mining and mineral companies.

Removal of the expiry dates for the film tax credits will provide greater certainty for film and related companies wishing to locate, expand, invest and create jobs in British Columbia. The extension of eligibility for the Film Incentive B.C. tax credit, or the domestic credit, to Canadian-controlled companies will make it easier for B.C.-based companies to raise needed capital outside the province and to continue to grow.

The Income Tax Act is also amended to reduce the dividend tax credit to 3.4 percent from 4.2 percent for ordinary dividends in 2010. This change is made to reflect the 1 percentage point reduction in the small business corporate income tax rate that was announced in October and made effective retroactive to December 1, 2008.

The final amendment to the Income Tax Act ensures that earnings from registered disability savings plans do

[ Page 14214 ]

not disqualify British Columbians from eligibility for the B.C. sales tax credit, which is provided for those with low incomes.

Amendments to the corporation capital tax clarify the tax base for taxpayers in response to accounting changes introduced in 2006. Amendments to the International Financial Activity Act simplify and clarify administration of the act. In the year ahead we will review the international financial activity program, which provides incentives to international businesses to enhance the attractiveness of British Columbia to investors.

Bill 2 also amends the Motor Fuel Tax Act to include hydrogen in the definition of fuel. This will allow hydrogen to be prescribed as an alternative motor fuel and benefit from the exemption provided to other environmentally friendly fuels.

The Social Service Tax Act is amended to simplify, clarify and expand the exemptions for prescription drugs and vaccines. With these amendments, the exemptions will be based on the nature and classification of the drugs rather than on a requirement that they be purchased for a specific purpose with a doctor's prescription. This will ensure that all such drugs benefit from the exemption and will align British Columbia's exemption with similar exemptions in most other provinces.

[1600]

Changes to the regulation-making powers under the Social Service Act will allow for a minor expansion of the existing exemption for production machinery and equipment. The exemption will now apply to materials such as sheet metal when used to repair, maintain, modify or assemble exempt machinery and equipment.

Prior to this amendment, the exemption was primarily restricted to premanufactured parts. The expansion of the exemption will continue to enhance the competitiveness of the manufacturing, mining, forestry and oil and gas sectors, which are so critical to British Columbians throughout the province.

Finally, amendments to the Tobacco Tax Act will increase the tax rate from 17.9 cents per cigarette to the Alberta tax rate of 18.5 cents. Our provincial tobacco strategy to encourage British Columbians to stop smoking, which is a strategy that is multi-faceted, is working. British Columbia currently has the lowest percentage of smokers in the country, at 15 percent.

However, even at this rate, one in every six deaths in British Columbia continues to be smoking-related. Price is an important component of our tobacco strategy, particularly with our youth. With this tax increase, we can and will do even better.

These are difficult economic times, but with these measures, together with the initiatives announced by the Premier last October and the balance of the Budget 2009 initiatives, we will ensure that British Columbians continue to be well positioned to take full advantage of the coming economic recovery.

B. Ralston: This bill includes the technical amendments that would implement the tax measures included with the budget and also has a series of non-tax budget measures which I wish to comment upon. Given the legislative timetable, it may come to pass that there is not the time afforded for committee stage debate of this bill. One can't be sure. Certainly if the government proceeds in one way, it may, and if it proceeds in another, it may not.

I propose to make some specific comments on individual sections that may not be able to be made in the committee stage. Ordinarily, the assistance of the opportunity to question the minister and receive the advice from his officials through him is a method by which some of the meaning of statute might be clarified, but I'm not sure that will be available.

Dealing first with the non-tax budget measures, there are some significant changes that will be, I suppose, of interest to comptrollers general and accountants but may have a significant impact upon individual ministries and their estimates. Prepaid capital advances from ministries to a government organization will now be taken to be grants, and the Minister of Finance may make grants directly from the treasury. Formerly, those prepaid capital advances were included in the estimates of each ministry, as I understand it.

I'm looking at the former

section 56.1. "The appropriate minister may make from the consolidated revenue fund a prepaid capital advance to an institution for its capital expenditures."

Section 5 of the bill replaces

section 56.1, and this becomes retroactive on the date of royal assent, should the bill pass, making it retroactive to April 1, 1998.

The effect of this is that only the Minister of Finance may make a grant to a government organization for its capital expenditure, rather than coming through the appropriate ministries. It seems to me that that may lose the clarity that comes with individual prepaid capital advances in individual ministries and is not a step that seems a step forward but rather a step backward. It may be administratively more convenient to have it administered centrally by the Ministry of Finance, but it would seem to me that the result of that consolidation is a loss in clarity and transparency.

[1605]

The minister mentions that the Land Title and Survey Authority will no longer receive fees from the government. The Land Title and Survey Authority is an independent authority, in some measure, that provides services to other public sector agencies as well as the private sector.

The minister…. If I understood his explanation in the speech that he just made, it was merely to correct the accounting in the sense that there were entries showing receipts to the Land Title and Survey Authority from government. Then there was a corresponding stream of

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revenue back to government. To eliminate this necessity of paying the fees would simplify accounting. I'm not sure that I understood it entirely, but he just said it moments ago, and I haven't had a chance to review his written remarks.

It seems to me that if the authority is indeed independent, exempting government from paying its fees is a rather contradictory message in the sense that it provides a special position and preferred position for the government as opposed to all others who deal with it. That may not be desirable, although should the matter proceed to committee stage, I'd be interested in hearing more detail about why this accounting change is deemed to be necessary. It does seem to me, at least at first reading or first glance, to detract from the independence of the authority.

The minister mentioned B.C. Timber Sales and changes to that, and I expect other colleagues will deal with that in a more fulsome way later in the debate. Similarly in

section 6, the reference to a prepaid capital advance is removed from the Hospital District Act, and that follows the changes that are made in sections 4 and 5 of the same act.

The Land Tax Deferment Act is amended in one of the other non-tax budget measures.

Section 8 allows the government to make a payment that reimburses a municipality for an amount deferred by this directly from the consolidated revenue fund, rather than require a specific appropriation for it. This amendment is apparently made retroactive to 1974.

Again, these appear to be accounting changes, but the rationale that's offered at this stage is relatively thin. I'm not sure that I can support it, given the lack of a fuller explanation.

The administration of the Land Tax Deferment Act used to fall under the authority of the Ministry of Small Business and Revenue. It has now become part of the Ministry of Finance. It would appear that there is a specific amount provided for this program in the current year's estimates. So it's not clear what that amount is or what the purpose of the amendment is from the brief explanation that's been provided here. I look forward to a fuller explanation later in the process of this legislation passing through the House.

The minister also speaks of some changes that will allow the government to put money into the BC150 cultural fund. That's necessitated by the fact that the income anticipated by the B.C. arts and culture endowment special account is, given the economic turn of events, substantially less than the government had expected.

Last year the special account paid out $8.3 million. This year it is only expected to pay out $3.35 million. That's presumably because of lower returns on the principal. This amendment authorizes the minister to add money into that account.

[1610]

The other account that is dealt with is the so-called children's education fund special account that invests $1,000 at each child's birth after January 1, 2007, and makes a promise that the child, upon reaching the age of majority, will be able to draw on that fund in the specified amount. Apparently, the government now estimates that that $1,000 investment will grow to $2,200 when it becomes available for the first student in 18 years. Apparently, it would seem that the anticipated revenue from this fund has fallen short of what's expected, and this will give this authority to do that.

In the budget-related tax measures, the minister speaks of the corporation capital tax and the reduction of that. Of course this will be welcome news to profitable corporations, but those corporations who are unprofitable, given that tax is not paid upon losses, will not really benefit by it.

I think many corporations, whether they're in the resource sector…. Certainly my colleague from Cariboo North enumerated a number of executives in the forest industry who have decried the impact of the carbon tax upon their bottom lines, particularly at a time when their operations are not profitable. Indeed, some of them are sustaining huge losses, such that they may be driven out of business. The carbon tax is the primary concern, because that's a tax that is required to be paid regardless of whether or not the company is profitable.

As I've said, in their case many of them are not profitable. I believe it was John Allan, who was referenced by the member for Cariboo North, who said it's as much as $20 million in carbon tax coming out of a sector that cannot sustain that kind of impact at this time. It's making it increasingly difficult for those firms to stay in business and to continue employing workers and for those workers to support their families in forest communities and towns all across the province.

The flow-through share tax credit is amended and extended to the end of 2009. I believe the estimate that the materials give is that there'll be a cost to the province of $16 million in the year just past.

Section 20 "excludes amounts received from a registered disability savings plan…from the computation of adjusted income for the purposes of determining the amount of the sales tax credit." This allows people who receive an income from a registered disability savings plan to still get the tax credit.

The registered disability savings plan is an innovation that many disability groups have advocated for a number of years, and they were finally successful in persuading the federal government to implement just such a plan in their 2007 budget. It enables parents to save for the long-term financial security of a person with a severe disability. That's obviously a method by which parents who would seek to care for an adult child can have some vehicle for which savings can compound tax-free and enable them to make provisions for their adult child

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to have the flow of income to live independently when the parents are no longer able to care for them, either through age or death themselves.

The other measures in the budget that I want to address are the film tax credits. Those are in a successful program instituted, as members will be aware, by a previous government. I think that was a government in the 1990s. That was a labour-based tax credit.

[1615]

It's good to see that this program is working well and is being extended. It has succeeded in making the British Columbia film industry the successful enterprise it has become in a very competitive environment, whether it's other Canadian provinces or even the home of the North American movie industry in California. It sometimes looks somewhat enviously at the kind of productions, the capable crews and post-production facilities that are found in British Columbia and seeks to emulate them, if not reduce the business that flows here in open competition.

The International Financial Activity Act changes. I'm interested to hear the minister say that the ministry is undertaking a review of all of that. It's not clear — although I have met with the CEO and the chair of the board of the agency that's governed by this act — that it's as effective as it could be, and I'd be interested to hear the terms of reference of such a review that's being launched.

This act initially was put forward in the 1980s by the then Social Credit government and really hasn't ever, I think, under any government lived up to the potential that was stated for it at the outset. The federal government did create some incentives for international maritime activity to locate in both Montreal and Vancouver. There was some activity in the 1990s — indeed, there's a major firm, Teekay Shipping, which is located in Vancouver — in response to those tax incentives.

Certainly the International Financial Centre, I think, would welcome a review and seek ways to become more effective within the legislative framework that it has to offer the public.

I suppose concern would be expressed by many outside of downtown Vancouver that while the activity is welcome, it generally tends to focus on Vancouver. I know Burnaby has made some efforts to reap the benefits of that. I know my city of Surrey has also expressed an interest in that. Beyond that, even in regional centres such as Kelowna, Kamloops and Prince George, I think there's an interest that this kind of activity might benefit their centres economically. But I don't think that hope has been realized.

The final changes that are mentioned that I want to touch on are those to the Social Service Tax Act. It's obviously a major revenue producer for the province — over $5 billion in revenue annually — and these kinds of clarifications are important for the smooth functioning of the act and the manner in which that tax is gathered from the citizens.

The final comment I have would be on the Tobacco Tax Act. The minister referenced the decline in the number of adult smokers to the lowest percentage of adult smokers of any province in Canada. I think that's a record that all of us here, perhaps with the exception of those who like to smoke…. I think many smokers even recognize that it's a habit they would rather not have but are unfortunately unable to quit.

I think that's a record that speaks well for the future of our health system. Of course, it was again an achievement that has been in motion for a long time, whether it's more recently under this government or certainly under the previous government where there was a very aggressive campaign of anti-tobacco and anti-smoking ads targeting, in particular, young people. It began to break down some of the ethos that surrounds smoking as it's perceived by young people at some points.

That seems to have been successful in the longer run in reducing the number of young people who are drawn to smoking and preventing them from continuing into their adulthood as smokers, with all the health implications that has for not only their personal health but population health as a whole.

[1620]

Those are the comments that I have to make on the measures that are in this budget. A budget is, of course, a confidence issue. The budget that's been put before the House is not a budget that this side of the House will be supporting, and we will not be supporting the legislation that seeks to implement it.

That's part of a well-known parliamentary tradition, because the budget is the principal endeavour of a government. It's a confidence measure, and this side of the House certainly does not have confidence in the budget that's been presented to the people of British Columbia. This bill seeks to implement, with tax measures and non-tax budget measures, that budget.

So with those comments, I conclude my remarks.

Hon. C. Hansen: With that, I move second reading of Bill 2.

Motion approved.

Hon. C. Hansen: I move that Bill 2 be referred to Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitt