British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, May 21, 2008

H0521pm-01

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Wednesday, May 21, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 34, Number 1 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon.

Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon.

Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General and Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations............... Hon. John van Dongen Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L)........................................................................ Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas............................................................................... John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Wednesday, May 21, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 12653 Statements..................................................................................................................... .......................................................... 12653 Opposition caucus softball team R.

Hawes Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 12653 Statements..................................................................................................................... .......................................................... 12654 Opposition caucus softball team K.

Conroy Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 12654 Supervised Injection Facility Designation Act, 2008 (Bill M214) J. Kwan Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 12655 Multiple Sclerosis Awareness Month M. Polak Quadra Island floatplane accident C. Trevena Nurses in B.C. J. Nuraney Doukhobor community in B.C. K. Conroy Joe and Rosalie Segal H.

Bloy Blackwater Paddlers B. Simpson Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 12657 B.C. Lottery Corporation management of casino transactions C. James Hon. J. van Dongen L. Krog M. Farnworth Customer rewards program for ferry fares G. Coons Hon. K. Falcon N. Simons C. Trevena Beds in Fraser Health Authority long-term care facilities G. Gentner Hon. G.

Abbott Motions without Notice ......................................................................................................... ............................................... 12661 Appointment of Special Committee to Appoint a Police Complaint Commissioner Hon. M. de Jong Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................. 12662 Hon. R. Thorpe

Reports from Committees........................................................................................................ ............................................. 12662 Select Standing Committee on Children and Youth R. Cantelon Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 12662 Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Emissions Standards) Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 31) S. Simpson Hon. B. Penner B.

Simpson Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ......................................... 12675 Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Emissions Standards) Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 31) Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 12675 Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Vehicle Emissions Standards) Act (Bill 39) S. Simpson Hon. B.

Penner Reporting of Bills ............................................................................................................. ...................................................... 12682 Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Vehicle Emissions Standards) Act (Bill 39) Third Reading of Bills......................................................................................................... ................................................... 12682 Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Vehicle Emissions Standards) Act (Bill 39) Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 12682 Estimates: Ministry of Health (continued) J.

Brar Hon. G. Abbott D. Routley A. Dix D. Chudnovsky D. Thorne

12653 WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 The House met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Prayers. Introductions by Members C. James: Visiting in the gallery today from my constituency is a group of residents of Somerset House, a wonderful group who I've had many good debates and good political discussions with. Among that group is a former MLA from this Legisla- ture, former cabinet minister Eileen Dailly. Eileen is a former teacher and school trustee. She was elected in 1966 in Burnaby North, was re-elected five times and was also only the second woman ever to hold a cabinet post.

As Minister of Education, Eileen Dailly imple- mented a number of visionary initiatives. She was the one who introduced legislation to make kindergarten mandatory. She expanded the community college sys- tem, and she also helped create the first native school district in the Nass Valley. But I think Eileen is most well known for actually banning corporal punishment in public schools when she banned the strap in British Columbia. So we all have a lot to thank Eileen for. Would the House please make Eileen and all the residents of Somerset House very welcome. Statements OPPOSITION CAUCUS SOFTBALL TEAM R. Hawes: Mr.

Speaker, I stand today to tell you about an incident that happened last night as I was making my way home from the precinct. Just a block or so from here I came across a baseball diamond where it appeared there was a socialist horde trying to take command of the ball diamond. When I got closer, in- deed it was a socialist horde. But they were being held back by the mighty press gallery ball team. As I watched, I saw the opposition House Leader running in the field.

I wondered what game he was p l a y i n g , a s h e s e e m e d t o b e r u n n i n g a w a y f r o m t h e balls that were com ing any where near him. However, after watching for awhile, it became very clear that the socialist horde actually…. None of us have anything to fear. They were beaten back, badly beaten, by the press gallery. So we have nothing to fear. Introductions by Members Hon. G. Abbott: Mr. Speaker, I know people are expecting me to rise and respond on behalf of those who have an opinion on corporal punishment in school.

I certainly did and was tremendously relieved at the change that former Minister Dailly brought into place. However, I'm not up on that. I'm up to…. Mr. Speaker: Was it too late for you, Minister? Hon. G. Abbott: I t i s n e v e r t o o l a t e f o r y o u , M r . Speaker — never too late. In the gallery today are representatives from the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada. They include Mr. Todd Abercrombie, who is the executive director for the capital region chapter, and also Lynn Hunter, who is the chair of the national government relations com- mittee and vice-chair, B.C. division board of directors.

Her partner Don Armstrong is here with us today. On behalf, I'm sure, of all members of the House, we owe an enormous debt of gratitude to the Multiple Sclerosis Society as they help victims of this dread dis- ease through difficult times in their lives and look for new opportunities through research to open up a new

chapter in that challenging disease. I'd like the House to please make them welcome. J. Kwan: It gives me great pleasure today to intro- duce 99 guests who are visiti ng in the gallery today. Normally, I rise in this House — as you know, Mr. Speaker — to introduce my mom or my daughter or my staff. But for the first time, really, I think, since I've been elected, I'm actually introducing constituents from the community. There are ten other individuals, as well, in the Rattenbury Room, because the gallery is simply too small to fit the community groups that are here today.

They are from the Downtown Ea stside community, but not exclusively from the Downtown Eastside community. They're just like you and me, Mr. Speaker — people who are deserving of dignity and respect. [1340] They are here to support the introduction of a bill that will be taking place later on today in support of the supervised injection site. More to the point, the three groups that I have put them into for the purpose of this introduction….

The Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users, people who actually have done a lot of advocacy on the ground to push harm reduction to be an accepted principle in our community, are here today. The Life Skills Centre representatives are also here today, and they're the people who work day in and day out providing services in our community in a non- judgmental manner, in a manner which supports the people who are in greatest need. Last but not least, there's a coalition of people called Insite for Community Safety.

It truly is a wide coalition of people who are gathered here today to show their support for the supervised injection site in Vancouver in the Downtown Eastside and the first in North America. With that, I'd like to ask all members of the House to please make these very special guests very welcome. Hon. J. van Dongen: I'm pleased to introduce to the House today Dean Purdy, who is the chair of the cor- rectional and sheriff services component of the B.C. Government Employees Union. I met with him and a number of his colleagues this morning to talk about

12654 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 issues of concern in our ministry, and I want to say that we had an informative meeting. I ask the House to please make them all very welcome. L. Krog: Unfortunately, I don't have the names of the six individuals. But joining us in the gallery today are six students from the Malaspina campus of Van- couver Island University here showing support for the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant and many of her constituents who fill the gallery. I'd ask the House to please make them welcome. Hon. L.

Reid: I've just had the absolute pleasure of dining with Sheila Orr, someone I have great admiration for. Certainly, I know she has fond memories of this place. I would ask the House to please make her welcome. N. Simons: I'd like to introduce those members of the BCGEU correctional and sheriff services who are here to meet with the minister — I hope it was a pro- ductive meeting: Dean Purd y, component chair; Steve Lisik; Ron McCabe; Derrick Goodwin; Larry Cadieux; Mike Scott; and Wiho Papenbrock. Will the House please make them welcome. Statements OPPOSITION CAUCUS SOFTBALL TEAM K.

Conroy: Well, I beg to differ with the member for Maple Ridge–Mission. Last night a quiet neighbour- hood in James Bay was transformed into an event com- parable to the World Series. Okay, I exaggerate. More like the local slo-pitch beer league. However, last night the NDP staff and caucus played our second annual game against the media. Now, I must admit that both sides chose to bring in some ringers this year. The member for Nelson-Creston recruited the Minister of State for ActNow for our side. Quite frankly, we were all impressed with his skill and dexterity for a man of his age.

We were all pleasantly surprised by the skills of the member for Surrey–Green Timbers, who I'm sure all members of the House will now refer to as Slugger Sue. But the media, in compar ison…. Well, they brought in some extremely skilled young gentlemen, none of whom any of us recognized from any media outlets, although Mr. Leyne assured me that this was a family event. His very athletic sons and their very athletic friends were surely welcome. However, I do digress, and I want to thank our last- minute fill-in umpire, Clerk Craig James, for his impec- cable skill — for filling in for yourself, Mr.

Speaker, when you were so unavoidably detained. It would have been helpful if you had warned us that Mr. James knows very little about the game. Some of his calls were somewhat questionable, especially against our side. But again I digress. I want to genuinely thank him for taking the time to ensure that this was a very fair and honest game. [1345] However, in light of the final outcome — and yes, I am getting to it — I just want to remind members that last year we, the members from this side of the House, were indeed victorious.

But this year, alas, I am sad to say we conceded the game by one run — just one run — to the mighty media. However, we have all agreed that next year will be the ultimate grudge match. I've assured the media that the game will be sometime next year. The NDP caucus, staff, friends, family and whoever else we can find to play will be only too happy to once again meet the me- dia and triumph in the third game of this ongoing matching of exemplary skills on the ball diamond. Mr.

Speaker: Speaking of the media, I just would like to inform the House that our very own Keith Baldrey just this morning came within inches of mak- ing a hole in one. But he birdied the last two holes, and he said that the press gallery would never believe it unless it was announced here in the House. J. Kwan: I seek leave to introduce a bill. Leave granted. Introduction and First Reading of Bills SUPERVISED INJECTION FACILITY DESIGNATION ACT, 2008 J. Kwan presented a bill intituled Supervised Injec- tion Facility Designation Act, 2008. J.

Kwan: I move the bill intituled Supervised Injection Facility Designation Act, 2008, be read for a first time now. Motion approved. J. Kwan: Injection drug use is a significant public health issue, and epidemic rates of HIV and AIDS, hepa- titis C and other infectious diseases amongst injection drug users were identified as a major concern by many, including the Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS. The health authority at the time identified the establishment of a supervised injection facility as a legitimate part of a response to this public health emergency.

This bill provides for the designation of Insite, the supervised injection facility operated by the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, as a health facility. Insite is an integral part of Vancouver Coastal Health Authority's continuum of care for people with addiction, mental illness and HIV and AIDS.

More than 30 published scientific research papers have shown the success of the facility, which includes increased access to acute health care amongst margin- alized populations, increased use of detox services, increased engagement in addiction treatment, reduced risk of overdose fatalities, reduced needle sharing, no increase in drug use or petty crime and no decrease in public order or safety.

WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12655 Insite provides an essent ial health service for hun- dreds of the city's most vulnerable residents and oper- ates with the support of th e municipal and provincial governments and health care workers, including the BCNU.

This enactment affirm s that the medical care and treatment provided at Insite, as well as all matters necessarily incidental to the effective medical care and treatment of individuals at Insite, is supported by the provincial health legislation and is in accordance with the province's exclusive juri sdiction under subsections 92(7), (13) and (16) of the Constitution Act. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M214, Supervised Injection Facility Designation Act, 2008, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS AWARENESS MONTH M. Polak: May is Multiple Sclerosis Awareness Month. We wear carnations in the House today to draw attention to a complex disease that can strike British Columbians in the prime of life. We also wear these symbols of hope to show support for an organi- zation dedicated to finding a cure for that disease and enhancing the quality of life of all those affected by it. Multiple sclerosis is a chronic, often disabling dis- ease of the brain and spinal cord.

Most people with MS are diagnosed between the ages of 15 and 40, and the unpredictable effects of MS last for the rest of their lives. MS can cause loss of balance, impaired speech, extreme fatigue, double vision and paralysis. [1350] You may also recognize the carnation as the symbol of Mother's Day. That the carnation also symbolizes the hope for a cure for MS is not coincidental. Women are more than three times as lik ely to develop MS as men. Canadians have one of the highest rates of multiple s c l e r o s i s i n t h e w o r l d .

A t t h e s a m e t i m e C a n a d a i s a world leader in MS research, with tens of thousands of Canadians committed to ending MS in as short a time as possible. Today and throughout the month of May, we salute the dedicated efforts of the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada, its volunteers and supporters in leading the way to finding a cure for MS and in offering support for people with MS and their families. I urge all British Columbians to take up that cause by learning more about multiple sclerosis and doing what they can to support the MS Society. QUADRA ISLAND FLOATPLANE ACCIDENT C.

Trevena: On the east side of Quadra Island, there's a very poignant memorial — a bench with five dolphins carved in it, with loggers' boots strung above. A shelter surrounds it, with homemade shell wind chimes. There's a plaque in front — a plaque to re- member five workers killed in a floatplane crash on February 28, 2005: Fabian Bedard, brothers Trevor and Doug Decock, David Stevens and pilot Arnie Feast. The five headed off to work but did not return. Their plane crashed in the channel on the east side of the is- land. Only one body has ever been found, and there's still no explanation.

It's been a fight for the families from the start to find out information and to get action. It was with their hard work that the plane was located and later the fuselage removed. It continued to be the work of the families to push for answers from officials locally, provincially and federally. Frustrated with what they see as a lack of response, they're paying for private investigation. They'd like to see a public inquiry held, but despite their concerted efforts, all they see on the horizon is the coroner's report.

The families are still looking for an- swers as to what happened and what condition the plane was in. It's not just for them to move on with their lives, but so that such an incident would not be repeated. With five men dead, they were hoping that they would not be the only ones who wanted to make sure something like this never happens again.

But the more they push, the more question s they have and the more frustrated they become with what they see as indiffer- ence from those institutions that they feel they should be able to trust for setting standards and for making sure that both transportation and work are as safe as possible. They get frustrated. The memorial to the five men is a peaceful spot. It will be more peaceful for all the families when their questions are answered. NURSES IN B.C. J. Nuraney: Recently we celebrated 150 years of nursing in our province. A career in nursing is a noble calling.

I would like to pay tribute to all the nurses who have been serving in our health care system throughout the province. Their dedication to their work and expression of compassion through their care for the people they help get better are truly commend- able. I had the opportunity to watch them work in the Burnaby Hospital not too long ago, and I can vouch for their dedication. One of the challenges in our health care system has been the shortage of nurses. I'm delighted to report to the House today that this government has nearly dou- bled the number of nurse education spaces across Brit- ish Columbia.

This has produced a record number of graduates who have received close to 13,000 nursing degrees, diplomas and certificates since 2001. We have added and funded 3,786 new spaces — an increase of 93 percent. More spaces will be added as announced in our budget. This will greatly ease the pressure as we con- tinue to seek innovative and creative methods of deal- ing with our health care syst em. It is important to note that in order to sustain our health care system, there

12656 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 has to be a true partnership by all providers, which include doctors, surgeons, nurses and support workers. It is through such concerted and well-intentioned efforts that we will succeed in protecting this very im- portant asset and privilege that we all enjoy. Once again I want to show my appreciation to those who have chosen nursing as their career. [1355] DOUKHOBOR COMMUNITY IN B.C. K. Conroy: This weekend I had the pleasure of at- tending the Union of Spiritual Communities of Christ 61st annual Union of Youth Festival.

The USCC, more commonly known as the Doukhobors, have a number of events this year. The youth festival is one of them. This year is particularly special to the Doukhobors, as they are celebrating 100 years of living in British Columbia. In the years 1908 to 1913, over 5,000 Doukhobor set- tlers came from the Prairies to B.C. It has been deemed the largest internal migration in Canadian history. Today B.C. is home to well over half of the ap- proximately 50,000 Doukhobor descendants living in Canada.

They built their original communities in the West Kootenay and Boundary regions, establishing themselves with their hard work and peace-loving ex- istence. Although their lives have not been without turmoil, this group of people has always risen above the issues of the day and succeeded where many others would have given up. At the festival on Saturday, I had the honour to read a proclamation from the government acknowledg- ing the significance of this historical event.

I want to take a moment to thank the Attorney General and the Lieutenant-Governor, their staff as well as my own, for their efforts in ensuring the proclamation could be signed, sealed and delivered in time for me to read at the festival. The proclamation also recognized the contribution of the Doukhobor community to the cultural, social and economic development of B.C. and how they still play an active role in the promotion and pursuit of peace, freedom and justice in our province, nation and the world.

The theme of this year's festival, "Reflection and progression," gave the partic ipants a chance to reflect back a hundred years to see how they have progressed and also to ensure a future for their grandchildren and great-grandchildren so that they too, a hundred years from now, can reflect on their progression. If you are passing through our region this summer, please take the time to visit the Doukhobor Discovery Centre in Castlegar, where this year's exhibit is dedi- cated to the centenary. JOE AND ROSALIE SEGAL H. Bloy: I rise today to honour a family that has given so much to British Columbia and Canada.

I want to say thank you to the Segal family for all that they have done. I was introduced to the Segal family by Peter Legg, an outstanding British Columbia in his own right. Peter Legg considers Joe Segal his mentor. Joe and Rosalie Segal are outstanding British Columbians who have contributed so much to our communities not only financ ially but with time and effort. You've seen this over and over again from the many organizations that they have assisted over the years. I could not talk about Joe Segal and not tell one of his stories.

Joe would say that a man could give a mil- lion dollars to his charity if he had that amount of money, but the real worth of the man to that charity would be to give of his time and effort in assisting the charity in the long term. Joe started his business empire with $50 after leav- ing the Canadian Armed Forces in 1948. Joe and Rosalie achieved much success, from a small business retail outlet to owning The Bay department stores and Zellers and many other businesses. Joe has been named to the hall of fame for business for Canada and for British Columbia.

Joe has been awarded the Order of British Columbia and the Order of Canada. Joe and Rosalie Segal have each been honoured with an honorary doctorate from Simon Fraser University for their contributions to society. Just recently Joe and Rosalie were honoured by the Lions as outstanding citizens for 2008 and presented with the Medal of Merit award. But not only do Joe and Rosalie contribute, their son Lorne, for many years now, has chaired the Courage to Come Back Awards. We are lucky in British Columbia to have a family like Joe and Rosalie Segal contributing to the better- ment of our communities.

BLACKWATER PADDLERS B. Simpson: Next Thursday, May 29, the Blackwater Paddlers will be conducting a commemorative paddle down the Fraser River to recognize the 200th anniver- sary of Simon Fraser's landing at the confluence of the Quesnel and Fraser rivers, a place we now call Ceal Tingley Park. The paddlers are hoping to time the event so that they land close to the exact hour that Simon Fraser landed, around 6 p.m. or dinnertime. Simon Fraser, in his journal, seemed intent on dinner because he records that they went out looking for wild onions to flavour their sauce.

The group will be in historical costume and will be paddling two 26-foot canoes that were patterned on the voyageur north canoes. The Blackwater Dancer, which was built by Quesnel residents Brian Black and Ron Watteyne and other club members, was built and put in the water in 1993 to celebrate the 200th anniversary of Alexander Mackenzie's landing in Quesnel, an event that holds many fond memories for our community. The second canoe is a replica ca noe, as well, that was pur- chased by Jeff Dinsdale and is aptly called the Wannabe. [1400] These canoes could take up to ten people, depend- ing on supplies.

The paddlers hope to have six people

WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12657 in each canoe, and they will go north of Quesnel down to the confluence, depending on the state of the Fraser. The Fraser is in full flood, and it may be too dangerous to put the boats in. I guess we're not as hardy as the explorers of the day were. For safety's sake, they may not be able to do it. Regardless, there will be a celebration at our Shiraoi House, in which there will be a short play depicting Fraser's landing.

I will have the privilege of playing the part of John Stuart, because apparently I can put on a good Scottish accent when I need to, and John Stuart was the only Scotsman in the group. Later John Stuart became in charge of the New Caledonia region for the North West Company. I ask the House to show their appreciation of the Blackwater Paddlers for bringi ng this part of our his- tory alive. Oral Questions B.C. LOTTERY CORPORATION MANAGEMENT OF CASINO TRANSACTIONS C. James: Today we learned about another scandal in the Solicitor General's ministry.

Freedom-of-information documents obtained by the media show the B.C. Lottery Corporation has been under-reporting sus- picious transactions. This is about potential money laundering, but the B.C. Liberals never brough t the information forward. They've never made it public. Their silence and their inaction have put the integrity of the entire system at risk. My question is to the Solicitor General. How is it that the media knew more about this scandal than he did, or is this just another example of cover-up by the Liberal government? Hon.

J. van Dongen: I want to start by indicating that the goal of our government is to ensure that casino gaming is conducted in British Columbia responsibly and with integrity. To that end, I am concerned about the media reports about alleged under-reporting by British Columbia, by the B.C. Lottery Corporation. I am in the process of co nducting my due diligence. I've spoken to the chair of the board of B.C. Lottery Corporation, to the CEO, an d I've asked for an urgent meeting. I feel it's my duty to follow due process. I've expressed to them my concerns.

I will have certain questions for them, and after that, I will take whatever action I believe is appropriate. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. C. James: W e n e e d m o r e t h a n c o n c e r n f r o m t h i s minister and this government. We need this to be taken seriously. The entire Lottery Corporation is at risk. Let's take a look at the information. In 2003 workers identified 49 suspicious transactions, but only nine of them were reported to the federal authorities. In 2006, as an example to compare, Ontario reported $15 mil- lion in suspicious activity.

B.C. only reported $60,000. There's a real problem at B.C. Lottery, and failure to actually report these questionable transactions is a criminal offence. I ask the mini ster again: how is it that the media, in their own investigation over four years, were able to expose this when successive ministers knew nothing about it? Hon. J. van Dongen: I have also spoken to the fed- eral minister responsible for FinTrack, which is the federal agency that receives reports with respect to possible money laundering or the passing of suspicious levels of cash.

I have also instructed our gaming policy enforcement branch to review the experience in Ontario to ensure that we learn from that experience. There are specific reporting requirements estab- lished by FinTrack, a federal agency, that I expect our casino operators and the B.C. Lottery Corporation to meet. As I said, in doing my due diligence, I want to assure myself that they are meeting those requirements. There are certain specific requirements with respect to suspicious currency transactions, which is a technical term, that the B.C. Lottery Corporation is expected to meet.

I will look at both sides of this issue to satisfy my- self as to what action needs to be taken. [1405] Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a further supplemental. C. James: It's typical of this minister and of this g o v e r n m e n t t h a t t h e y d e c i d e t o l o o k i n t o i s s u e s a f t e r they're caught out, after they're found out by the media. You would think, Mr. Speaker, that a minister would be paying attention to the documents. They certainly can't claim ignorance. In fact, in 2005 B.C.'s own Auditor General called for tighter rules and better reporting. But still we saw nothing done.

This is just one in a long list of scandals out of this ministry. We'll all remember the forgotten child death reviews, the reduced coroner inquests, the lottery re- tailer scandal, the ICBC chop shop example. The list goes on and on. There have been successive failures by this minister, by past ministers and by this government when it comes to the ministry. My question is to the minister. How many more scandals do British Columbians have to endure before the B.C. Liberals get a grip on this ministry? Hon.

J. van Dongen: In 2002 this government passed a new Gaming Control Act and, as a result of that, put in place clear policies, clear procedures. There was a clear set of procedures for casino opera- tors and B.C. Lottery Corporation to follow. As I said, I will be reviewing all of that from a performance perspective to satisfy myself that the proper action has been taken. This is a matter of not only meeting our expecta- tions for integrity in all of our gaming operations. That

12658 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 is what the public has a right to expect. That is the expectation of our government. But it is also the law, under federal law, that these kinds of suspicious cur- rency transactions be report ed to FinTrack, and I will ensure that that is being done. L. Krog: Well, the minister can talk all he wants about process. But if nobody actually does anything, a process is pretty much useless, which appears to be the case here.

Three years ago, in 2005, the Auditor General told this government that major consequences such as increased organized crime happen when gaming is not strictly enforced. But this government did little about those concerns, and once again we find out that succes- sive Solicitors General have dropped the ball, ignored problems and buried the concerns. So to the Solicitor General — simple question: why do we have to learn about the problems from the me- dia and only after years of denials and withholding of FOI requests? Hon.

J. van Dongen: The issue of organized crime, including money laundering, which certainly can take place in and around casino op erations, is one that is of great concern to our government. That is why we are putting additional dollars and police resources into specialized integrated teams to seek out, investigate and establish actions against organized crime and money- laundering activities. Our government is concerned about these things. That is why we're putting $53 million of additional money into those police operations. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. L.

Krog: Well, I hate to use a racing analogy, but I think they're shutting the ba rn door after the horse got out on this one. Under this government, the whole gaming system has been put under a cloud. First it was the lottery retailer scandal; now potential money laundering. Every single time the minister of the day tells us that every- thing is just fine, a few months later we find out it's a disaster. It's clear. It's the club med attitude of this government, same as with forestry. It's hands off, hands off. The gov- ernment broke their promise to expand gambling. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. L.

Krog: Now they're addicted to the money, and they're avoiding the serious problems in the B.C. gam- ing system. Clearly, there's no oversight here — just denial. So when are the B.C. Liberals going to crack down and fix their broken gaming system? [1410] Hon. J. van Dongen: No one is saying that there isn't an issue or a concern he re. What I'm saying is that we as a government expect integrity and responsibility in our gaming operations. It is my intent to ensure that that goal is met. I believe that I have a responsibility to follow due process.

That's why I've asked for a meeting with the board of directors of B.C. Lottery Corporation. It is important that I as minister do not rush to judgment, that I get all of the facts. As I said, my commitment to the members of this House and to the public is that I will take whatever action I believe is necessary to en- sure that our goal of integrity and responsibility is met in our casino operations. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. M. Farnworth: What we saw in Ontario was the lottery retail scandal.

When the questions were raised here in British Columbia, we were told that no, every- thing was fine here and that nothing would happen. What we're hearing now out of Ontario is $15 million of suspicious transactions and $60,000 here in British Columbia, and a lot of questions are being asked. The issue was raised in 2005 in the Auditor General's report. My question to the minister is: why has nothing been done since 2005 when that Auditor General's report came out? Hon. J. van Dongen: As I've said, I intend to act on this information immediately, as I am doing. I have due process to follow.

I have due-diligence responsi- bilities to the public, and I intend to carry those out. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: The minister says he wants to do due diligence. Well, the government should have been doing due diligence since 2005 when the Auditor General's report came out. My question to the minister is this. Will he table in this House the results of that due diligence? Will he table in this House the discussions and any reports that come out of his meetings with the B.C. Lottery Corporation? Hon.

J. van Dongen: As I said, after I conduct my due diligence, I will decide what action is appropriate. I will also make a determination of how to best report that to this House and to the public. CUSTOMER REWARDS PROGRAM FOR FERRY FARES G. Coons: Today we learned that B.C. Ferries has struck another deal that insults ferry-dependent com- munities. The minister has allowed certain grocery store customers to benefit from reduced ferry fares at the expense of others. B.C. Ferries is selling discounted tickets to Save-On-Foods so their customers can redeem them for free.

Reduced fares shouldn't be for those who buy the most groceries, nor should they be for those who shop

WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12659 at one particular store over another. It creates unfair- ness, and it doesn't address the overall problem — the largest and fastest increase in ferry fares in this prov- ince's history. Will the minister tell the people of ferry-dependent communities that there will be no corporate favourit- ism over public interest? Or will the message be that with him at the helm, they have no hope and that their communities are going down fast? Hon. K. Falcon: Well, I can't imagine the horror that B.C.

Ferries might enter into a marketing program that encourages people to take advantage of the ferry system and ride the ferry system. What a shock, and how upset- ting that must be for the members opposite. [Laughter.] As we listen to the peals of laughter from across the way, I only can think to myself that the model the NDP w a n t t o s e e , o f c o u r s e , i s t h e o l d B . C . F e r r i e s C r o w n corporation model. You might remember those days. Those were days of strikes that put the service out of business for the public of British Columbia. The aver- age age of the vessel fleet was 42 years old.

Those were the glory days when they ra n up over a billion dollars of debt on the Crown corporation and bankrupted it. Those were the glory days when they built fast ferries that didn't work. That's not where we're going. B.C. Ferries is doing a great job for the public of British Columbia. [1415] Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. I want to remind members to listen to the question and listen to the answer. The member has a supplemental. G. Coons: Well, the minister should take off his eight-track and come to the present. The minister just doesn't get it.

His policies are the cause of the devasta- tion to coastal communities, and he refuses to accept his failure in that regard. The people of coastal communities contribute immensely to the revenue of this province, and they watch as the ferry board of directors get outrageous pay increases, spend millions on advertising, gouge the public with reservation fees and now give corporate benefits to some British Columbians over others. When will this minister finally recognize the devas- tating impact that his policies have, and when will he start acting in the public interest? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon.

K. Falcon: Well, I had to check and find out what an eight-track is. Now that I've been informed what an eight-track is, I understand the nature of the member's question. I do think that…. You know, the member takes an extraordinarily pessimistic view of a company that's actually trying to find a way to work with folks who do a lot of shopping throughout the province of British Columbia and pro- vide them opportunities to utilize those points for ferry trips.

For the life of me, I cannot understand the NDP's opposition to a company that i s t r y i n g t o w o r k w i t h businesses to market the product that they provide to British Columbians and give British Columbians better opportunities to utilize those services. How does that offend the members opposite? Why is it…? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. K.

Falcon: You know, I think the question that we really have to answer is why the NDP is offended by a corporation that has now demonstrated that they're delivering an improved service with massive investment in the terminals, massive new fleet renewal and new vessels that are delivered on

schedule and under budget — unlike the other disaster that the B.C. Ferry Corporation became under the NDP government. N. Simons: The Powell River region on the upper Sunshine Coast is entirely ferry-dependent. They have an Overwaitea grocery store, which contributes im- mensely to the community and where customers can accumulate points to redeem for free ferry tickets. But it also has a Safeway, a Ch opping Block and Mitchell Brothers in operation as a grocery store since 1946. With this ill-advised plan, B.C. Ferries has pitted one local business over another.

They've done so without consultation with the ferry advisory committee, local government or the chamber of commerce. I think that people in ferry-dependent communities have every right to be outr aged with this minister's response. The real problem is the biggest ferry fare increase in the history of this province. How will pitting one business against another resolve this issue? Hon. K. Falcon: Oh, the offence, the horror that B.C. Ferries might actually be trying to do some things to reach out and make some arrangements with busi- nesses to try to provide benefits for the people that do shopping. The horror.

I mean , the outrage that that member…. I just can't imagine how he can deal with the stress that this must cause him. The fact of the matter is…. This member talks about ferry increases. Well, you know, under the great NDP mismanagement of the ferry corporation, fares went up 70 percent in that decade.

The difference is not a dime invested in terminals; not a dime invested in new vessels, except for the three fast ferries that don't work and are still sitting over there in the har- bour in Vancouver; and nothing for the benefit of the travelling public. [1420] Today we have a corporation that delivers a great service reliably, with labour peace, efficiently and with

12660 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 new vessels. That's a lot better than we ever saw under the NDP mismanagement. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. N. Simons: I find that response extremely disin- genuous and disrespectful to the coastal communities which I represent. This impa cts on the cost of living, and it's a serious problem. In the lower Sunshine Coast we have another prob- lem. There's not one store where residents of the lower Sunshine Coast can collect these points.

So you have this government making decisions, or allowing decisions to be made, that have absolutely nothing to do with the public interest — once again, no consultation with the chamber of commerce, no consul- tation with the ferry advisory committees. Does the minister believe that the ferry corporation can make up whatever policies they want without any- one looking out for the public interest? Hon. K. Falcon: I'm kind of curious to know who the NDP consulted with when they went ahead to build $500 million worth of fast ferries. I'd like to know: who did you talk to? What chambers of commerce?

It would have been nice if one member of the board had actually had some business experience. That would have been really nice, instead of the labour representative they put on there who later, after the fiasco, said "What the heck do I know about building boats?" That's the difference between the opposition and government. I'll tell you what…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Continue, Minister. Hon. K. Falcon: There appears to be a little sensitivity over there when we talk about the ferry corporation.

I know that the members opposite want to look with rose- coloured glasses at what they believed happened in the '90s with the ferry corporation. Let's just be blunt about it. It was a disaster. They ba nkrupted the corporation. The average age of the fleet was 42 years old. They had regular labour shutdowns that shut down the entire corporation. S o w h a t d o w e h a v e t o d a y ? W e ' v e g o t l a b o u r p e a c e . Employee morale is up. We've got improved customer satisfaction surveys, and we've got a great system operat- ing for British Columbians, finally, in British Columbia. Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. C. Trevena: We just would like an answer from the minister. We'd like an answer for all the people who live on islands as to where they're supposed to shop. Are they all supposed to shop at Save-On-Foods as the only way that they're going to be able to afford to ride the ferries, to use their system of transportation? Is this what the minister wants? Maybe the minister should have consulted, or en- sured that B.C. Ferries consul ted, with the chambers of commerce and other municipalities and other people who live in those communities. We have a situation where B.C.

Ferries can go and make business deals with one chain of supermarkets. It can decide that suddenly it's going to have a sale on one set of ferry tickets. To get from Nanaimo to the Lower Mainland costs the same at the moment as it does to get from Campbell River to Quadra Island. There's something a little screwy there. So I'd like to ask the Minister of Transportation if he'll take his job responsibly and defend the public interest, making sure he's not doing business deals which benefit one chain of supermarkets over the rest of the community, and ensure that our ferry fares are equitable across all routes.

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K. Falcon: So let me try and understand the great offence that the NDP are taking over the fact that you've got a company…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. Members. Continue, Minister. [1425] Hon. K. Falcon: S o a s w e t r y a n d t h i n k a b o u t this…. Now, you can use Save-On-More points for international travel, but the NDP are offended that the corporation might actually want to use that for travel within British Columbia. Oh, the horror. Oh, the horror of B.C.

Ferries thinking about establishing marketing arrangements that encourag e ridership and encourage tourism to those very coastal communities that they are apparently defending. I understand that alth ough these kinds of…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, we're not going to continue. Continue, Minister. Hon. K. Falcon: I understand that although these arrangements are absolutely commonplace around the world, it is a great shock to the NDP opposition.

The socialists on the other side can't imagine how horrify- ing it might be that a company is actually trying to think about ways to improve ridership, to create bene- fits, to encourage people as they do their shopping. And I might say this also. I doubt that this will be….

WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12661 Interjections. Hon. K. Falcon: This could be important, Members. You might want to listen to it. I rather doubt that this will be the last arrangement that B.C. Ferries enters into. But let me tell you this. It's a heck of a lot better than the disaster you operated during the 1990s. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. BEDS IN FRASER HEALTH AUTHORITY LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES G. Gentner: Let me shift from more points for ferries to credit card medicine.

In Chilliwack one of the first acts this government did for seniors was shut down an 85-bed facility before opening a new one; 85 seniors were displaced. Five years later the FHA is admitting that it has a severe shortage of residential care beds in Chilliwack. Fifty-one seniors at Valley Haven will be what the FHA calls double-bunked because of the minister's botched long-term care plan — two seniors in a 90-square- foot room. Minister, you are in your eighth year, and this is what we have. We have bunk beds for seniors. Mr. Speaker: Member. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. G.

Gentner: When is this government going to treat seniors…? Mr. Speaker: Member. Through the Chair, please. Members, let's listen to the question. G. Gentner: When is this government going to treat seniors with the respect and dignity that they so aptly deserve? Hon. G. Abbott: I know that this member has not been in the House very long. If he'd been in a little longer, he would recall that double-bunking was en- tirely the order of the day during the NDP years. In fact, the excellent private rooms, private homes, today are the standard. Back in the day, you were lucky to get a shared room under the NDP.

More likely it would be a multiple-bed room under the NDP. Further, I will tell the member this. The Fraser Health Authority has done a great job in providing new residential care and assisted living. As of today, Fraser Health has built almost as many rooms since 2001 as the NDP government built across the entire province for ten years from 1991 to 2001. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister. Member has a supplemental. G. Gentner: Well, the minister can play his little game of interpreting stats, but we did not kick seniors around the way this government does for its rich friends. I'm not making this up.

The FHA's own language is say- ing it's double-bunking seniors — long-term care bunk beds. I know the minister believes in two-tier health, but this is getting a little ri diculous. Next thing, seniors will have to pull straws to determine which bunk bed they get — the top or the bottom. [1430] My question to the minister is this. Why will seniors have to live in a cell-like condition for over 14 months at Valley Haven care home because of this government's incompetence and lack of compassion for seniors? Hon. G. Abbott: There is no other way to characterize that member's remarks than ridiculous and insulting.

I am very well aware of the facility in Chilliwack. I'm well aware of it. The arrangement that has been made has been a consensual one on the part of all the people who are part of that project. For the member to disparage the shared living arrangement when it was the standard during the NDP years is absolutely insulting and absurd. Very recently I was a part of a celebration of 4,000 incremental residential care and assisted-living units. Later this year we'll celebrate 5,000 incremental resi- dential care and assisted-living….

Interjections. [End of question period.] Motions without Notice APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO APPOINT A POLICE COMPLAINT COMMISSIONER Hon. M. de Jong: By leave, I move: [That a Special Committee be appointed to select and unanimously recommend to the Legislative Assembly, the appointment of a Police Complaint Commissioner for the Province of British Columbia, pursuant to

section 47 of the Police Act (RSBC c.367), and that the Special Com- mittee so appointed shall have the powers of a Select Standing Committee and is also empowered: (

a) to appoint of their number, one or more sub- committees and to refer to such subcommittees any of the matters referred to the Committee; (

b) to sit during a period in which the House is ad- journed, during the recess after prorogation until the next following Session and during any sitting of the House; (

c) to adjourn from place to place as may be convenient; (

d) to retain such personnel as required to assist the Committee;

12662 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 and shall report to the House as soon as possible, or following any adjournment, or at the next following Session, as the case may be; to deposit the original of its reports with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly during a period of adjournment and upon resumption of the sittings of the House, the Chair shall present all reports to the Legislative Assembly. The said Special Committee is to be composed of J. Rustad (Convenor); Messrs. MacKay and Nuraney and Messrs. Krog and Farnworth.] Leave granted. Motion approved. Petitions Hon. R.

Thorpe: I have the privilege to table a petition on behalf of the 38 residents of the Green Bay Mobile Home Park. Reports from Committees R. Cantelon: I have the honour to present the report of the Select Standing Committee on Children and Youth for the fourth session of the 38th parliament. I move that the report be taken as read and received. Motion approved. R. Cantelon: I ask leave of the House to permit the moving of a motion to adopt the report. Leave granted. R. Cantelon: I move that the report be adopted, and in doing so, I wish to make some brief comments.

Since 2006 the Select Standing Committee on Children and Youth has been working towards fostering greater awareness and understanding of British Columbia's child welfare system. It is the aim of the Children and Youth Committee to continue to advance in a non-partisan manner issues of vital importance to the care and well- being of B.C.'s children.

The committee members look forward to continuing our close work with the Office of the Representative for Children and Youth, the Ministry of Children and Family Development and ot her ministries and agen- cies to ensure that the best interests of B.C.'s children are met. In closing, I would like to thank the Representative for Children and Youth and her staff, as well as senior officials from the Ministry of Children and Family Development, Ministries of Income Assistance, Advanced Education and the Ministry of Education for their assis- tance and their important contributions to the oversight of child welfare.

In addition, I would like to thank all members of the committee for their important contributions to the committee's unanimous report. I would also like to express the committee's appreciation to Jonathan Fershau, the committees researcher, who is leaving the assembly after five years in the committees office. His contributions and support of our work were appreci- ated, and he will be missed. [1435] Motion approved. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: I call in this chamber committee stage debate of Bill 31, and in

Section A, Committee of Supply, for the information of members, it's continued debate on the Ministry of Health estimates. [1440] Committee of the Whole House GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION (EMISSIONS STANDARDS) STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 31; S. Hammell in the chair. The committee met at 2:45 p.m. On

section 1. S. Simpson: We're here, I believe — just let me clarify — under the divisions and defi nitions. My question to the minister in regard to this is…. We have listed under

definitions "coal-based generating facility." Could the minister define what that constitutes in terms of what those might include? There are a lot of coal-based generation facilities. Hon. B. Penner: The intention there is that the term "coal-based generating facility" would refer to a facility or a power plant that's gene rating electricity through the use of coal or a combination of coal and some other fossil fuel. S. Simpson: When this definition of coal-based generating facility, electric ity generating facility…. What I'm interested in here is….

We know there are facilities that are exclusively for the generation of power, of electricity, which then would go into the grid or whatever. That's one type of facility. We also have facilities that burn coal for power purposes. I know there has been discussion of a few of those facilities around the province. Would facilities like that be included in this defini- tion of coal-based generating facilities — facilities where coal is the primary source of power to generate for a facility or for an industrial plant, not necessarily for sale into the grid as electricity? Hon. B.

Penner: Just a clarification of the question. Is the member referring to what's known as self-

WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12663 generation, a facility that would generate electricity for its own internal use as opposed to selling it to the grid? S. Simpson: For example, for the minister, there was some discussion about this facility a number of months ago. I believe it's in the Pr ince George area. Is it the Giscome facility? It slips my mind at the moment. There the discussion is ab out burning coal for their own production purposes — largely as their primary power source for their own production purposes, not necessarily for the sale of electricity per se.

So it is more about an industrial use and the use of coal as an energy source to power their own facilities. [1450] Hon. B. Penner: The intention is that a facility that would be generating electricity with the use of coal would be captured by a regulation that is yet to be drafted, obviously, because the legislation hasn't been passed. Certainly if it's a significant facility generating electricity using coal as a fuel source, then I would expect that it would be captured by the regulation that would be designed under this section. S. Simpson: I appreciate the minister's answer.

If it's the case that a facility that was using coal to generate electricity would be captured by whatever the regulation is after it's written, a facility that was using coal to power an industrial activity, which wasn't going into generation of electricity for sale in any way but was being used to provide the power for that specific facility…. Wo uld it be captured under this definition? Or would th at be something outside of what's considered here — if it was for a single purpose, for an industrial use? [1455] Hon. B.

Penner: As I noted during second reading debate on this bill — I've just been reminded of this — the commitment is that there would be zero green- house gas emissions from any coal thermal electricity generation in the province. So even if it was a facility that's not on grid or put- ting out to the grid, dischar ging the electricity to the grid, my understanding is that the policy intent is that it would be captured. S. Simpson: I'm just moving on to one other ques- tion related to

definitions. We see that it talks about an electricity generating facility. Then it continues on to talk about "existing electric ity generating facility" and "new electricity generating facility." I understand the difference between existing and new, but what's the difference between those two and the "electricity generating facility" on the first page? Or is that just the two of them put together in combination? I'm wondering why there's this variety of

definitions. Hon. B. Penner: The updated 2007 energy plan was announced on February 27, 2007. In that document it states that any new generating facility will have to have zero net greenhouse gas emissions on a go- forward basis. Another way of looking at it is that anything that was pre-existing from that date would be captu red, I think , by the definition here of ex isting electricity generating facility. You could think of things like…. There's a natural gas power plant, I believe, in Fort Nelson or on Van- couver Island, sometimes known as ICP.

It escapes me at the moment what that really means — Island cogeneration plant. As well, of course, there's Burrard Thermal, which has been around since 1961. Those would be captured by the definition of an exis ting electricity generating facility. There are different requirements in the energy plan depending on whether a power plant is coming forward after the date of the new energy plan or whether it's already pre-existing.

Section 1 approved. On

section 2. The Chair: Member,

section 2 is a long section. If we indicate where we are, it would just assist in the process. S. Simpson: I appreciate that answer from the minis- ter about new and existing. When I look at the first page of the bill in division 1, "Definitions," and go down to the fifth definition, it says "electricity generating facility" and identifies that. Then it goes on to identify the existing and new facilities that the minister has explained in his last response.

I just want to determine whether the electricity generating facility that's not identified as either new or existing is simply an identi fication of the two of them together when talking about electricity facilities. Hon. B. Penner: My expectation is that that will be the mechanism for defining the scope of the size of the facility we're talking about. In other words, someone who may own a one-megawatt or half-megawatt diesel backup generator for a farm, for example, is likely not to be captured by this regulation.

I think the first defi- nition, electricity generating facility, is to set the scope of what will then be referred to in the definition of either "existing electricity generating facility" or "new electricity generating facility." [1500] But it would be my expectation that someone who's got a backup diesel generator for their camper or for their farm would likely not be caught by that definition of electricity generating facility. S. Simpson: One last question under the matter of

definitions, and that's the operator. It goes on to talk about the operator: "…to be the operator of the facility." Is that presumed to be the operator or the operator-owner? Is it presumed to be the owner of the facility as well? Hon. B. Penner: The policy intention with that definition is to make sure there's someone held respon-

12664 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 sible for the objectives of the legislation. In some cases the operator may be separate from the owner. You can envision, for example…. Just north of Vic- toria here, there's the Hartland Landfill. The landfill, I believe, is owned by the capital regional district. But there's a small power-producing facility that's oper- ated, I believe, by Maxim Power. They're capturing the methane and combusting it to generate electricity and selling it back to B.C. Hydro. My expectation would be that they would be the operator.

It's possible, as we design the regulation, that we could also capture the owner, but sometimes there will be a difference between who the owner is and who the operator is. S. Simpson: I appreciate the an swer, and I expect that there certainly may be times when the owner is the appropriate person to be captured. I would hope that when we see the regulation s, there will be some dis- tinction that ensures that happens. Hon. Chair, I was going to move on past

definitions now to the division 2, "Waste Management Facilities." Under "Regulations for purposes of Division 2," it talks here in 76.21 about: "Without limiting

section 138 (1) [general authority to make regulations] , the Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations as follows…." Then it has a list, and under (

b) it says: "prescribing actions that must be taken in relation to either or both of the following: (

i) the management or reduction of specified greenhouse gases; (ii) the recovery of energy potential from specified greenhouse gases." Could the minister give us some idea about what kind of actions he or the government has in mind in relation to those matters? What might that look like — those actions? Hon. B. Penner: The types of actions that are con- templated under the subsection include requiring owners/ operators to flare the methane — in other words, cap- ture the methane and flare it instead of allowing it to simply escape into the atmosphere.

The combustion process reduces the harmful effects of methane on the atmosphere. [1505] The rule of thumb is that one tonne of methane is 21 times as harmful, in terms of the greenhouse gas effect, as one tonne of CO 2. But combusting it apparently eliminates that mathematical equation, so that it's roughly a 1-to-1 comparison instead of a 21-times-worse scenario.

The other contemplation is that depending on the size of the landfill, the government may require the next step, which is not simply to combust the methane to reduce its harmful effects on the atmosphere but actually to use the heat that is generated from the combustion process to generate useful energy — i.e., electricity — similar to what's happening at the Hartland Landfill north of Victoria or at the Metro Vancouver landfill in Delta. S. Simpson: When I look at

section 76.21(d), it says, "regulating and imposing requirements and prohibi- tions for the design, siting and operation of any works, activities or operations related to the management," etc., of these facilities. I can understand that. Is it the expectation of the minister that the regulations that will be written will be very specific about where these facilities may be allowed to be located? It talks about spe- cific kinds of design features that will be required in terms of design features, not in terms of outcomes. I understand there will be requirements in terms of outcomes. Hon. B.

Penner: This subsection gives us additional authority to what currently exists under the Environ- mental Management Act, where we do have the authority to establish certain requirements around the design or location of a facility where waste is being generated at that site. This makes it clear that we also have authority to establish design requirements for a facility on a site that's receiving waste from off site, from somewhere else. Your typical landfill itself isn't generating the waste; it's collecting the waste from some other location. The legal drafters who looked at this

section determined that the existing

section didn't give us the clear authority that we might want to have in the future to make sure we're adequately handling waste at landfills. S. Simpson: Just to clarify that, might this

section then…? Since this is a rewrite or based on advice from legislative drafters, is this a

section that could be used, for example, to help make decisions about where Metro Vancouver ends up putting new facilities or how they proceed at the end of the day with waste management issues? Might this be used in that example? Hon. B. Penner: This subsection, as I was saying, gives us additional authority, particularly around dealing with the greenhouse gases that are generated from the facility.

Without identifying any particular community upfront, there are quite a number of landfills around the province. [1510] This would give us the authority to require that certain local governments or perhaps other entities — whoever they may be — that are operating landfills deal with them in a way that helps reduce the harmful effects of the greenhouse gases that emanate from the decomposition of waste materials located in landfills. S. Simpson: Subsection (

e) essentially talks about ex- emptions and the ability of the cabinet to make decisions on exemptions of those who might fall into this section. Could the minister give us some sense of what those exemptions might look like and what was anticipated in the inclusion of this

section to be able to exempt people? Hon. B. Penner: This subsection, I'm told, parallels an existing regulation-making authority that is in

section 138(2)(

s) of the Environmental Management Act. In terms of what kinds of exemptions might be contemplated, we don't have a firm idea of that yet. We want to engage in some consultation with the people most likely to be affected by this regulation. That would be the owners and operators of landfills in British Columbia.

WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12665 It's conceivable that a landfill under a certain size may have a different requirement than one that's over a certain size. Another way of stating it is that typically the larger the landfill, the more economic it may be to engage not just in methane capture and combustion but in methane capture, combustion and electricity production, and then feeding th at back into the grid as a green source of electricity. But it probably wouldn't be economic to do that with a very small landfill.

There are going to be some discussions, I under- stand, taking place over the next weeks and months before we establish the exact threshold or standard. S.

Simpson: In the instance — and I didn't see it in the bill, but maybe I missed it — that there was con- templation of exemption for a facility and that was being looked at, is there an y consultation process of a public nature that would occur if there was a decision to take a facility out of the general regulations and say, for what may be good reasons, that this facility is going to be treated differently than others for these reasons, and then to allow some public comment on that. Is that anticipated? Hon. B.

Penner: A common practice for the ministry before implementing a specific regulation is to release what's called an intentions paper through our website and also delivered in a targeted way to stakeholders t h a t h a v e b e e n i d e n t i f i e d b y t h e m i n i s t r y i n a d v a n c e through previous correspondenc e or dealings. It is the ministry's intention to have an intentions paper process with regard to this particul ar issue around thresholds and the scope of this regulation. [1515] In fact, I'm advised that just yesterday the ministry released an intentions paper on this very topic.

It's enti- tled Landfill Gas Regulation: Po licy Intentions Paper for Consultation, a very catchy title indeed. I'm not exactly sure how much time is contemplated for response, but I believe the response date is sometime in September. The member will be pleased to know that in the second paragraph it's noted that…. Of course, we have to first pass this bill that we're debating now for such a regulation that is contemplated in this intentions paper to come to fruition. I don't want to prejudge the judg- ment of this Legislative Assembly about whether or not they will be endorsing this bill.

But should they choose to do so, an intentions paper is now on the website and, I presume, distributed to interested parties such as local governments. S. Simpson: I look forward to spending my evening reading the intentions paper. Hon. B. Penner: It's not too long. S. Simpson: Well, that's good. Continuing on, subsecti on (

f) talks about the imposition of "monitoring and reporting requirements in relation to" and then lists a series of items around greenhouse gases, recovery of energy potential, handling, treating, transporting, etc. — a number of items there. In terms of the issues ar ound monitoring, reporting and that oversight, is it the intention of the minister to use — and he can correct my term here if he likes — what I viewed as sort of the industry stewardship model as the way to approach these matters — i.e., saying to industry: "Here are our expectations about what you'll do.

Now you have responsibility to be able to monitor and report that back to us so that we're satisfied that you are accomplishing the objectives that we've set"? Is that sort of industry stewardship model the expectation of how Bill 31 will generally proceed? Hon. B. Penner: First of all, this new provision is similar to an existing one in

section 138(3)(

f) of the Environmental Management Act. But here the main difference is that we're adding a provision specifically related to greenhouse gas emissions, and that's kind of a common theme. Previously, the Environmental Management Act did not specifically regulate greenhouse gas emissions. So that is what's new here, and that is what this legislation, I think, is basically defined by. It's targeting greenhouse gas emissions for the first time. In terms of the nature of the reporting requirements, they will be fairly prescriptive. That is our intention.

We'll be pretty specific about what and when things must be reported. In fact, apparently it's been pointed out to me that in this recently released intentions paper, on page 5 there is an indication about what our expectations or at least our proposals are in terms of reporting requirements. The due date for people who have comments or suggestions in response to this intentions paper is September 15, 2008. That's longer than our normal consultation process or time lines for an intentions paper, but we felt it was appropriate here to provide some extra time, given that much of this is tilling new ground. S.

Simpson: I appreciate that this is much more prescriptive, particularly as it relates to greenhouse gases, which is the bill's intention of course. But getting back to that qu estion. In this intentions paper, the ministry will be quite specific about what it requires to be monitored — that is what I hear the minis- ter saying — and about how it reports that monitoring to government so that government has a good sense. [1520] But it is the intention of the ministry that this will be done by industry. It will be industry stewardship. They will take the directive from government.

They will do the monitoring, produce the reports and give those reports to government. Then government will obviously assess the accuracy of the reports in some fash ion. That's how information will be got by government around the compliance — whether these industries are in fact in compliance with the expectations of the government on these issues. Hon. B. Penner: The member is essentially correct. There will be reporting re quirements. There are audit-

12666 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 ing provisions that are contemplated in the act, so we can follow up and audit in dividuals or entities that are reporting. In addition, I've just noted this on page 5 of the stated intentions paper. It says: "The ministry intends to compile and post for public information annual summaries of types and amounts of landfill gas cap- tured — including, specifically, methane gas emissions — and amounts and types of beneficial uses." That's just to give the member some indication of what we're planning to do.

There's also a chart just above that, describing vari- ous threshold amounts of waste in terms of the total amount already in place as well as the amount that comes to a landfill on an annual basis. Then beside that i s a n i n d i c a t i o n o f h o w o f t e n t h e y h a v e t o r e p o r t o n various things. It appears to me that there seems to be a trend or theme of annual reporting of a variety of different things such as tonnage, sources, composition, projections and nature of any organic diversion programs, to name just a few. S.

Simpson: This next question relates to that and relates a little bit to the resources that will be available within government for audi t and oversight functions. I'm interested in knowing what resources are expected to be avai lable to do thi s ne w piece of wo rk and who will do it to provide the audit and oversight function for government on this stewardship model. If the minister wanted to take a second, because I will ask similar questions when it comes to division 3 and division 4 around coal-b ased electricity and emis- sions from electricity generation….

So if the minister has the ability to answer them all at once, then we'll just get those questions out of the way at once here. [1525] Hon. B. Penner: I've sent a note to request staff from the ministry that perform this function. But the short answer is that this will be a responsibility of the environmental stewardship division of the Ministry of Environment.

As to just what resources they've identified for this task, the one that the member refers to in terms of sequestration activities relate d to electricity generation from the combustion of coal, I'm not able to give a de- tailed answer at this time, but I have sent a message for staff from the environmental protection division to get here as soon as they can. S. Simpson: I ' l l j u s t m o v e p a s t t h a t , a n d w h e n t h e appropriate staff get here, we can go back to that question. I'm going to move on to division 3, "Coal-based Electricity Generation," for a moment here. When we look at

section 76.31(1) and (3) and actually move down into the compliance reports, this obviously talks a lot about how we measure amounts of greenhouse gases. Could the minister tell us how the government expects to measure those greenhouse gases? What are the tools available to be able to measure those emis- sions for government purposes? Hon. B.

Penner: I'm advised that the same reports will be used here as are used with the climate registry as well as in Europe and elsewhere, where you take a particular type of fossil fuel, multiply the volume con- sumed in a given period of time and multiply it by a certain conversion factor. Different fuels have different carbon intensities, and even different types of coal have different types of carbon intensities. So you would take the number that has been iden tified in terms of carbon emissions per tonne of a particular type of coal and then multiply that by the amount used. S.

Simpson: Then the assumption is, because we go back and talk about the stewardship model, that's what the ministry and the government will give to those operators of facilities — this very specific formula to say, "Here's how you have to measure, and here's how y o u h a v e t o r e p o r t , " i n v e r y s p e c i f i c t e r m s s o t h a t there's a consistency across the board in terms of the reporting and the emissions tracking so that we're all kind of working from the same song sheet here. Is that a safe assumption? Hon. B. Penner: Essentially, yes. The member is correct. S.

Simpson: If I follow down under the compliance reports a little further, it talks about: "The operator of a coal-based generating facility must submit a supple- mentary report to the direct or within the prescribed period after the operator becomes aware that (

a) infor- mation in a previous report under this

section did not completely and accurately disclose the required infor- mation, or (

b) information required to be reported in a previous report has changed." [1530] How does that work in terms of the potential for penalties? Everybody makes mistakes. There's an error made, and the error is identified and corrected, and that's fine. But is there a time, if there's consistency with these errors, that an administrative penalty or some kind of penalty then comes into play at some point? How does that work? Hon. B. Penner: It's my expectation that the admin- istrative penalty or penalties would not kick in until after the date for the filing of supplementary reports has passed. S.

Simpson: In terms of these reports, whether it be the primary report or the su pplementary report that's identified under the compliance reports, are those go- ing to be public documents, or are they going to be partially public documents, assuming that there may be some proprietary information in them? Generally, the information about levels of emissions, levels of re- ductions, those key big questions…. Is that going to be public information or available to the public, or will that not be released? [K. Whittred in the chair.]

WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12667 Hon. B. Penner: Just flipping ahead a couple of pages. It's been pointed out to me that subsection 76.52(3)(

b) refers to the fact that the prohibition against disclosure of information does not relate to the two topics here in 76.31(1)(

a) and (b). Stated differently, this information can be released in these two subsections, and it's the government's intention to in fact release that type of information. It may well be posted on our ministry website and could be posted, as well, on some kind of a public registry. S. Simpson: So it's based on that section. I've got a couple of questions about th at when we get there. But just to be clear, the minister is saying that the informa- tion can be released and that it would be the govern- m e n t ' s p l a n … .

I t i s t h i s m i n ister's plan, certainly, that that information would be made available to the public through the website or some other vehicle. Is there anything in the le gislation that requires that information to be released and that doesn't make it discretionary that it be released? [1535] Hon. B. Penner: The bill contains provisions for regulation-making authority about what types of in- formation must be released and/or made public, so those are provisions that we can rely on to make it mandatory to release information.

But it certainly is the government's intention to release the type of informa- tion that we've just been discussing. S. Simpson: We'll get to a question about this

section and when the regulations anticipate being prepared. But when we look through the regulatory regime, it talks about establishing the greenhouse gas emissions that are deemed to be attributable to the use of coal for the gen- eration of electricity and how much they are and some discussion about where the reductions or emissions might come from.

The question I have for the minister is: is there somewhere in the regulation — or should we expect, relatively soon, when the regulations are written for this — some identification of what level of emissions we're talking about that Bill 31 will capture under its jurisdiction, based on what the government knows, what the level of emission s are and what the expecta- tion is that the application of this bill will be in terms of reducing those emissions so that we start to get to keep a bit of the scoresheet about how well we're doing on getting to 33 percent? Hon. B.

Penner: In terms of greenhouse gas emissions, generally from the province of British Columbia, that information will be required to be reported at certain intervals, as determined by the bill that we passed last fall. That was the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Targets Act. This particular

section or division that we're talking about deals with electricity. The member will know that the requirement for any proposed coal-fired elec- tricity generation is zero. It's essentially zero green- house gas emissions through carbon capture and sequestration of any CO 2 and for other forms of elec- tricity generation that may result in greenhouse gas emissions. I guess you could think of natural gas as a likely example, a potential example.

There's the re- quirement to, essentially, re port those emissions and then offset those emissions, whatever they are, using credible forms of offsets. [1540] For other forms of electricity that don't generate greenhouse gas emissions to begin with…. That's not something to be concerned about, whether it's large- scale hydro, small hydro, wi nd or some other forms of potential electricity generation. But as indicated previ- ously, it is our expectation and intention to disclose the information that's reported about actual emissions and the offsets that potential generators are relying on. S.

Simpson: I appreciate the answer and the legisla- tion that we adopted previously that set the targets and had some explanation of how those targets would be re- ported. The reason I ask the question is that with this bill and other legislation we're dealing with in this session…. There are a variety of bills here that will all, in different ways, have different impacts on the target of reducing emissions, and they come at it in different ways.

I'm trying to determine whether somebody who is looking for some detail over the big numbers that we'll get based on the targets legislation that was passed, which will report out some of the big numbers on, "Here's what our emissions are, and here's what our objectives are…." Presumably, when we see the 2012 and 2016 objec- tives of the Climate Action Team and however cabinet deals with those recommendations when they come, we'll be able to see what we're doing for 2012 and 2016, as well as for 2020.

Is there going to be some ability for people who are doing a more detailed assessment to be able to look and say, "Okay, we're doing fine in terms of zero emissions on electricity," or on coal-fired power or on any of the things we'll talk about later this afternoon — or on emissions on vehicles, when we get to that? I'm just wondering whether, under the compliance in these reports, we are going to have the level of detail that will allow people who do that research to be able to look and say, "We're getti ng there in these areas.

In other areas maybe we need to do something differ- ently" — to be able to do that assessment. Will that be available as it relates to the pieces that are covered by Bill 31? [1545] Hon. B. Penner: There are a couple of ways to get at the information the member refers to. First, dealing with this bill and the provisions we've talked about already under 76.31(1)(

a) and (b)…. Those two subsections talk about the types of information that are required to be reported, and it's our government's intention to release that information. Just for the record, I'll read it into the record: "(

a) the attributable greenhouse gas emissions referred to in

section 76.3 (1), as determined in accordance with the

12668 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 regulations, (

b) if applicable, the capture and storage, or capture and sequestration, of an amount of emis- sions from the facility under

section 76.3 (2)." So that's one way information will be disclosed. The second way is — again referring to the act we passed last fall, the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Targets Act, Bill 44 back then, if anyone is keeping track…. In

section 4 it says: "Beginning with a report on 2008 BC greenhouse gas emissions, and continuing with a report for every subsequent even-numbered calendar year, the minister must, as soon as reasonably practicable for each year, make public a report respecting" — and then I'll skip to sub (c) — "the actions that have been taken to achieve that progress." Presumably, that report would delve into various reductions or increases, depending on the sector. So that would be a source of information. Currently information is broken down by Environ- ment Canada reporting.

The member will know that every year Environment Canada and Statistics Canada work together, and I think Natural Resources Canada, too, has a role in it. They release greenhouse gas emissions data for the country as a whole, as well as by province. We've just received the latest data. The most recently compiled data is for the year 2006, and in the case of British Columbia, it shows a decrease of 3.2 percent in B.C.'s total greenhouse gas emissions in 2006 compared to 2005. They've also revised the greenhouse gas emis- sions attributable to British Columbia for the year 2005.

It was a downward revision, indicating, I think, about a 1.6 or a 1.8 percent reduction from 2004 levels. So if you take a two-year period, greenhouse gas emissions in British Columbia from the year 2004 to 2006 have declined approximately 5 percent, according to the National Inventory Report produced by the federal government and just released a couple days ago. It's apparently now posted on their website. [1550] That's not to say that we don't have a lot more work to do. Clearly, we do.

People will be poring through the numbers to try and determine if there's any type of trend or for what accounts for the decreases. The purpose for my mentioning it here is that the federal government does provide a breakdown by different sectors and industries in terms of their contribution to B.C.'s total greenhouse gas emissions. One document I've got, entitled "Emissions

Summary for British Columbia," shows total greenhouse gas emis- sions for electricity and heat generation for the year 2006 were 1.47 million tonnes of CO 2 equivalents — static in terms of comparison to the previous year. But the member will note that I said electricity and heat generation. There's an additional docu ment that I have in my hand, "Annex 9." There are a lot of pages that were released, so it takes a while to get to the numbers. Looking at this document, it delves into, particularly, electricity generation and GHG emission details for British Columbia.

This docu ment shows that overall greenhouse gas emissions, in terms of CO 2 equivalents in British Columbia for the year 2006 from the electric- ity generation sector, were 830,000 tonnes — less than one million tonnes, I be lieve, if I'm reading this correctly. It's down 50,000 tonnes, I believe, from the previous year, 2005, and down from 2. 3 million tonnes in the year 2001. So it's been a decrease over the last number of years.

One can speculate that that's due to a decreased use of facilities such as Burrard Thermal, which, while they burn natural gas, still produce a significant amount of greenhouse gas emissions when they're in heavy use. S. Simpson: Those numbers are important, and I'm glad that the ministry or the government is going to do some more detailed analysis of why emissions work the way they do in terms of reductions in that. I would hope the minister would agree that on this project, the issue around climate change, it's very important that we get our head around this and do it.

It also, I believe, will be deemed to be a work-in- progress for some time to come, because a lot of the approaches and the initiative s that are being advanced now haven't necessarily been tested. When you do things that are as complex as some of what's suggested here…. The ability to have to go back and rethink them sometimes is a reality of this, I believe. That kind of data will certainly be helpful in terms of our determining whether things are working as effectively as we might like or whether they need to be re-evaluated, and that will best be determined….

Maybe not "best," but certainly those kinds of numbers will be a significant part of that determination. Moving into

section 76.42. It talks about new elec- tricity generation facilities. It goes on and speaks about what the expectations are about regulations for facilities developed after February 27, 2007, and talks about existing facilities and their compliance requirements. Could the minister just explain a little bit about the difference between the new and the existing electricity- generating facilities and how they will need to comply under this legislation?

What are they going to have to do to comply, and what's the difference between their requirements of new and existing and the use of credits — that whole kind of approach? [1555] Hon. B. Penner: My understanding is that any new facility, one that doesn't cu rrently exist, would be cap- tured, effective immediately, or upon this legislation coming into legal force and effect. Pre-existing facilities — for example, Burrard Thermal, if that facility is still going to be generating at that time — would be required to meet these requirements by 2016. S.

Simpson: I'm going to move ahead, because we do have lots to do this afternoon, to division 5, the gen- eral attributes on page 8 of the bill. I just have a couple of questions around "Inspection powers for purposes of divisions 3 and 4." It talks about inspections. It talks about: "Without limiting the powers of an officer under any other provision of this Act…." Could the minister tell us: is the officer a conserva- tion officer, or is the officer somebody else?

WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12669 Hon. B. Penner: A good question from the member.

Section 76.51(1), as you'll note, says: "Without limiting the powers of an officer…." So it refers to that term. I've just checked. The term "officer" is defined in the exist- ing Environmental Management Act. The term "officer" is defined thus: "(

a) a person or class of persons employed by the government or a municipality and designated in writing by a director as an officer, or (

b) a conservation officer." In practice, I believe what this means is that the environmental protection division of the ministry would be responsible for these duties. But we have the capability, through the existing definition, to have the director designate a municipal officer or employee to also fulfil some functions under this act, if that's deemed appropriate. A conservation officer would also have authority under the act to perform any of the tasks described herein. [1600] However, in practice, it's the staff of the environ- mental protection division that do the routine inspections or follow-ups.

If those routine inspections lead them to believe that there is significant non-compliance — I'm referring, in my mind anyway, to a recent example arising out of Abbotsford, and the member probably knows what I'm alluding to — then they contact the conservation officer service when they believe it's now past the point of just doing inspections but time to investigate a pos- sible prosecution. Somewhere, at that point, a handoff occurs, and the CO service takes the lead, still with support from the environmental protection division.

At a certain point, the environmental protection division staff would say, "Over to the CO service," to lead an investigation which they believe would likely lead to charges or at least the recommendation for charges. S. Simpson: I do have questions related here to any expectations because of the additional work. Obviously, putting this set of regula tory regimes around green- house gases in place for industry is going to significantly increase the amount of work that ministry officials have on their plates.

I know that the minister is expecting staff that can provide him some advice around the audit and over- sight question we talked about earlier, and I'm happy to leave this question if it's better to be left for when somebody can answer it. It's a question around staff resources and expectations that the government has about the implementation of Bill 31 and what that means in terms of increased resource requirements for the ministry to be able to do the work that these new regulations will require. Hon. B.

Penner: Additional resources were pro- vided to the Ministry of Environment for the policy development work that led to this legislation and other pieces that we've been discus sing this session. Some of the information the member is looking for might be more appropriately addressed during budget estimates discussion, which I understand may be taking place as s o o n a s t o m o r r o w , a c c o r d i n g t o w h a t I ' v e b e e n t o l d by a certain House Leader.

We'll see what happens with that. [1605] I don't have the specific details, but I can make a general comment, though, that some of these provisions don't kick in until 2016 in terms of existing generating facilities and the requirements that they have to offset their emissions so that they're net zero. Some of the extra oversight that would be required doesn't take place until 2016. That does give us some time to consider allocation of resources within the ministry, but I can probably give the member a better answer tomorrow. S. Simpson: We'll get at that at some point tomorrow, I assume. I'm going to move past….

We talked about the

section under "Confidentiality…." We've already had some discussion about what will be made public, so I won't go back over that again. I think that at this point, in terms of sections, that actually completes my questions on

section 2. Sections 2 to 7 inclusive approved. On

section 8. S. Simpson: Just a question in regard to the automatic administrative penalties identified in 115.1. We know that when we look at offences farther on, the offences can be significant. I believe that one set of offences is in the $1 million range, and the other one is in the $200,000 range. It talks here, under subs ection 2, about how "an administrative penalty under this

section must be paid to the government on or before the date…." What are we looking at in terms of administrative penalties? When we consider that offences are in the$1 million range, what kind of range are we talking about for penalties, under administrative penalties? Hon. B. Penner: The approach taken here will be similar to the approach that we discussed yesterday with the cap-and-trade legislation. We want to have a similar approach to what ou r partners in the WCI are going to be adopting, so we'll be having some ongoing discussions with them.

The model will be similar, in that you probably want to have a multiple of what you think a company may see as a benefit for skirting the regulations so that, should they run afoul of our regulations and not com- ply, they know with certainty that the amount they'll pay will be greater than the amount they would save by skirting the regulations. S. Simpson: I appreciate that point.

What we don't want to occur is the cost of doing business to end-run the regulatory requirements to be a cost that isn't of significant enough impact on the company that they think it's worth doing that versus meeting the require- ments. I'll look forward to seeing some information at some point about what that set of penalties is. [1610]

12670 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008 Moving to page 12, under "Imposed administrative penalties — failure to apply emission offsets." Under subsection 1(

a) at the top of the page, it says, "If the director is satisfied on a balance of probabilities that…" and then goes into a list. Could the minister explain what "a balance of probabilities" means in terms of this? Hon. B. Penner: The member's question is eerily reminiscent of a law school exam question, so it's caus- ing me to have some flashbacks here, not all entirely positive. But with some trepidation, I'll e

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0521pm-01
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0521pm 01
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0587bfcbd5f3db77f374e9bb9706260d7aaadef1

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