British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, November 3, 2005

H1103am-04

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

First Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, November 3, 2005 Morning Sitting Volume 4, Number 4 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC FIRST SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Deregulation ...................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts .........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Acting Legislative Comptroller..................................................................................................................................................Brent Cunningham

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)...................................................................................Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP)....................................................................... Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) ..................................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) .....................................................................East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ..................................................................Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).......................................... Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..........................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) ..............................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)................................................................... Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) ......................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ...................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP).................................................Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon.

Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) ............................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) .............................................................................North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)................................................................. Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) ..............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP)......................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) ............................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ....................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ...................................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ...................................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP)............................................................................ Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon. Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) .................................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)................................................................... Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)...........................................................

Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)................................................................ Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)....................................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP)............................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) .................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)..............................................................................

Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................ Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)....................................................................

Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP)......................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)......................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L)...................................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) ....................................................... Peace River North Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon.

Wally, QC (L)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)................................................................ Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ......................................................................................... Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)........................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ...................................................................Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon.

Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) .....................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................ Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP).......................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ..............................................................Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP)..............................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................ Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP).......................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ......................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon. Carole (L)..........................................................

Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) ......................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) .......................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L).............................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) ......................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)........................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ...............................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................

Harry Bloy Cariboo North....................................................................................Bob Simpson Cariboo South................................................................................... Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ....................................................................... Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ........................................................................... Hon.

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke ......................................................Norm Macdonald Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville................................................................... Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................................Doug Routley Delta North........................................................................................

Guy Gentner Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay ............................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin ............................................................. Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson..........................................................

Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country .......................................................................Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ............................................................................Sindi Hawkins Langley................................................................................................

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca........................................................................John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...........................................................Michael Sather Nanaimo ...........................................................................................Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville..........................................................................

Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston.................................................................................. Corky Evans New Westminster ........................................................................Chuck Puchmayr North Coast .........................................................................................Gary Coons North Island.................................................................................... Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ....................................................

Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................. Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head.................................................................Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon ..............................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon.

Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................. Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .........................................................................Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast.....................................................Nicholas Simons Prince George North .........................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .....................................................................John Rustad Richmond Centre .......................................................................... Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................... John Yap Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon.

Murray Coell Saanich South..............................................................................David Cubberley Shuswap ................................................................................ Hon. George Abbott Skeena ...............................................................................................Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers.....................................................................

Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ....................................................................................Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge...................................................................... Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ............................................................................... Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock..........................................................................

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.................................................................. Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings...................................................................... Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ........................................................... David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway...........................................................................

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara.................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ........................................................................Carole James Victoria-Hillside................................................................................

Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary ............................................................ Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi............................................................. Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet ..........................................................................................Harry Lali

CONTENTS Thursday, November 3, 2005 Morning Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 1627 World Trade University Canada Establishment Act (Bill Pr401) R. Hawes G. Robertson C.

Trevena Reporting of Bills ............................................................................................................. ........................................................ 1630 World Trade University Canada Establishment Act (Bill Pr401) Third Reading of Bills......................................................................................................... ..................................................... 1630 World Trade University Canada Establishment Act (Bill Pr401) Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 1631 Estimates: Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General Hon.

J. Les J. Brar M. Sather N. Macdonald Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 1639 Estimates: Ministry of Tourism, Sport and the Arts Hon. O. Ilich N. Simons C. Wyse H. Bains R. Fleming G. Gentner C. Evans

1627 THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 The House met at 10:03 a.m. Prayers. Orders of the Day Hon. G. Abbott: In this House, in the big chamber, I call committee stage debate of Bill Pr401, followed by the estimates of the Ministry o f P u b l i c S a f e t y a n d Solicitor General, and in

Section A, estimates debate for the Ministry of Tourism, Sport and the Arts. Committee of the Whole House WORLD TRADE UNIVERSITY CANADA ESTABLISHMENT ACT The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill Pr401; S. Hawkins in the chair. [1005] The committee met at 10:07 a.m. On

section 1. R. Hawes: First, I'd like to introduce the staff I have here with me today: Renata Neufeld from Advanced Education and Paul Goyan from the Ministry of Fi- nance. I would like to correct the record from the re- marks I made at second reading. During my remarks I made note that the member for Chilliwack-Kent had a great deal of input into this project. In fact, it's the member for Chilliwack-Sumas. While the mem- ber for Chilliwack-Kent is a very hard-working MLA and minister, the member for Chilliwack-Sumas ac- tually did the work on this. So I would like to correct the record on that.

Section 1 approved. On

section 2. G. Robertson: On

section 2 we have some ques- tions related to the not-for-profit status of the univer- sity. Is it normal (

a) for universities and (

b) for private universities to be conferred with this status? R. Hawes: Public universities are always not for profit, but private universities can be either for-profit or not-for-profit. The proponents have chosen to make this a not-for-profit university. G. Robertson: Then a question there is…. Accord- ing to the documentation, we have a public-private partnership involved with the university to design, build and operate. Is it normal for not-for-profit status to be conferred when there is a public-private partner- ship involved? R.

Hawes: If the member is referring to buildings that might be constructed, then it is common practice for even public universities to be involved in P3s for building construction. Certainly, it would be not out of the norm for a private university to be involved in a venture like that. [1010] G. Robertson: With regards to the operation of the building and the ongoing operation of the university, is there an issue there related to a private entity operating and a not-for-profit status being in place for the univer- sity? R.

Hawes: Perhaps the member could clarify the question, because we don't quite understand what you mean by the question. G. Robertson: I will try and do th at. If there's a P3 operating and there's a not-for-profit status granted to the university — in this case, the ability for a private partner to operate and profits to be generated through to the operating partner

whereas there is a tax-free status conveyed to the university — I'm curious if there is a conflict involved at that stage with conferring that status when there is the ability to make profit within the operation of the university. R. Hawes: If the member is willing, we'd like to take that question on noti ce. There is a further staff member that will be joining us when we get to the tax section, and he can respond to that question. We will respond at that time. G. Robertson: I'll look forward to getting more clarification on that later.

A question more generally on the provincial gov- ernment's involvement in th e establishment of this university: was the provincial government involved in the establishment on behalf of British Columbians in some way? R. Hawes: The government involvement has been limited to…. They have made some comments, and ultimately the government will be involved to the ex- tent that under the degree-granting act, there will have to be…. This university is going to be given university status so it can grant degrees, which must be conferred on them by the government.

Other than that, there has been some work by individual MLAs on this, but there has not been any direct government — British Colum- bia government — work. There has been a great deal of input at the local level by the city of Chilliwack. G. Robertson: A question. I know we've heard ref- erence to the establishment of this university through two throne speeches now, and I understand there is a memorandum of understanding as well. The language in the throne speech refers to technical support that the provincial government would be providing. Can the member please specify what technical support means?

1628 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 R. Hawes: The technical support has been limited to providing advice on legislation and how to proceed through the legislation, but there has been no financial assistance of any kind, if that's what the member's question is leading to. There has not been financial support, but there has been some technical support in terms of guiding the proponents through a process. G. Robertson: That technical support regarding advice on legislation — has it involved staff people from the Ad- vanced Education Ministry or other ministries? R.

Hawes: Yes, it has involved staff from Advanced Education. [1015] G. Robertson: So there has been some staff time invested in the establishment of this university. Can the member give some sense of what that adds up to in terms of cost or FTEs? R. Hawes: There was staff time allocated to this, but it was not significant. Certainl y, this is a practice that has happened in the past. For example, when the Sea to Sky University was established, staff time was also allo- cated to that.

This university will be granted university status and degree-granting status and, as such, must be in conformity with the legisl ation and, in fact, requires legislation. So there has to be conferencing between the proponents and staff to make sure that their plans are aligned with the ministry's requirements. G. Robertson: A question related to the establish- ment of the World Trade University, around the peti- tioners for this bill. I'm cu rious: are these petitioners actually recognized by the United Nations Secretariat in some way? R. Hawes: I will make reference to a bit of the CV for Dr.

Sujit Chowdhury, wh o is present CEO of the Global Secretariat and secretary general of the World Trade Forum. This is a long CV, and it's on many, many websites. He's secretary general of the World Summit of Young Entrepreneurs through the United N a t i o n s . H e i s c o - c h a i r o f t h e A P E C Y o u n g L e a d e r s hosted by China in 2001 in Beijing and Shanghai. It was a China-Canada joint venture.

He's an associate fellow of the World Academy of Arts and Science, which is a prestigious global think tank, a board member of two international foundations, an advisor to a number of governments, and a frequent participant in govern- mental and multilateral eminent persons panels. Mr. Chowdhury has very extensiv e credentials and strong links to the UN going back a number of years. G. Robertson: I wasn't looking for detail specifi- cally on the petitioners.

I was asking exactly whether or not the petitioners are actu ally recognized by the United Nations Secretariat in some way and if the member could provide some documents that confirm that for British Columbians. R. Hawes: We are not in possession of a specific document from the UN th at establishes Dr. Chowd- hury and his associates. However, the government has recognized the initiative, and the UN has recognized the initiative. They are th e proponents that have brought it to the government. Given the credentials of Dr. Chowdhury, we have not gone further and see no need to go further. [1020] G.

Robertson: Actually, I have no further questions on

section

Section 2 approved. On

section 3. C. Trevena: I have a couple of questions on

section 3, the purpose of the university. It's very clearly laid out that it's going to be offering degrees and diplomas. However, I just wanted to get a bit of clarification. According to the UN Secretariat, the purposes of a World Trade University are to alleviate global inequalities from globalization, to create a bridge between disparate groups because of glob- alization, to provide opportunities for growth and shared prosperity, to be bridge-building and to provide afford- able, accessible global trade capacity. I also would like clarification further….

I'll stop there on that one and just ask for clarification on that point, and then come back with the other one. R. Hawes: The training that is going to be provided there, and is basically laid out in some detail here, ac- tually accomplishes the goals that were set out. So within the framework of legislation, there has not been a need to build that into the legislation, but the courses that the university is offering do advance those goals. C.

Trevena: I wonder if the member could give some explanation about how these courses are going to deal with these goals, when it has been mentioned that this is going to be an elite university. R. Hawes: When this bill went through the Com- mittee on Ethical Conduct and Private Bills, these is- sues were canvassed fairly extensively and unani- mously accepted by all parties. At that committee meeting Dr.

Chowdhury explained, among other things, that building capaci ty within the people in some of these underdeveloped countries is how you advance their ability to enter the global trade and the global markets to improve the economies of their coun- try. These courses in international trade advance knowledge and build capacity within the people of those countries. That's one of the targets that the pro- ponents are aiming for and believe will be accom- plished with this university. C.

Trevena: In the establishment of the university there's a reference to the Third UN Conference on Least Developed Countries and that Brussels conference. The

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1629 actions by development partners listed included capacity-building, helping the least developed coun- tries develop plans for their own education systems, encouraging young women to get into the education system, supporting governments in strengthening edu- cation and assisting through technical support the least developed countries. I wondered how this university will play that active role within the least developed countries listed by the UN under the Brussels conference. [1025] R.

Hawes: The Chilliwack location is the world headquarters, but there will be at least nine other cam- puses which will be established in countries around the world, each of which I'm sure will have its own pro- grams to advance this. The students will be encouraged to come to Chilliwack to finish their degrees, and in- ternational students will be brought to Chilliwack. But within their own countries th ere will be programs that advance the causes, as laid out by the member. C. Trevena: One further question on this, on the capacity-building side.

In the resolution that's referred to in the establishment and in the Secretary General's re- port, it's talking exclusively about south-south coopera- tion. I wanted a further explanation about how a univer- sity in Chilliwack is going to enhance south-south coop- eration to build up skills and capacity-building. R. Hawes: The campus in Chilliwack, when it re- ceives these international students, would give them training to go home and advance the causes, as laid out by the member. She's asking about a specific location in Chilliwack.

I, frankly, don't know whether you're thinking there should be a different location or…. Is there a problem with the Ch illiwack location? Is that what you're getting at? I'm not quite sure why you're asking about the location. C. Trevena: I'm not referring specifically to the Chilliwack location. I'm referring to the UN resolution and the UN reports which are talking about south- south cooperation. It was how this university is going to ensure that there is south-south cooperation and how this will be encouraged beyond simply offering degrees and diplomas. R.

Hawes: Again, this is the world headquarters, and there will be a campus…. I can't remember if it's Sao Paulo. I think it's Sao Paulo that they're talking about having a campus. There will be campuses in lo- cations internationally, and they will be linked into Chilliwack as the world headquarters — south-south. There will be an east-west connection. There will be a number of connections here. This is an international university with the headquarters here, with campuses in other countries and around the world. The students are going to come from international locations. Sections 3 to 10 inclusive approved. On

section 11. G. Robertson: On

section 11, related to property, we understand that the city of Chilliwack bought the former Canadian Forces Base in Chilliwack from the Canada Lands Co. for $9.8 million and is holding it in trust for CEPCO, which is the Chilliwack Economic Partnership Corp., essentially as a design-build-operate P3. My question is: what will happen to the outstanding or future aboriginal land claims associated with this parcel of land as a result of the passage of this bill? R. Hawes: My understanding is that this has been to the Supreme Court of Canada, I think on two occa- sions, and the outstanding land claims against that portion have been settled.

Section 11 approved. On

section 12. G. Robertson: We have a report that I've looked through, commissioned by the World Trade University Global Secretariat and Chilliwack economic partners, a n d f u n d e d i n p a r t b y W e s t e r n E c o n o m i c D e v e l o p - ment. It projects that the provincial government reve- nue through until 2010 will be approximately $7.8 mil- lion flowing from the university. I am curious how that has incentivized the provin- cial government to offer preferential or exempt tax status, non-profit status, when there is a P3 in place here operating. [1030] R.

Hawes: Any property tax exemption would be against any future buildings that the university may own, but in this particular case, property taxes would actually accrue to the city of Chilliwack who, under the Community Charter, have the right to waive property taxes, if they wish, to a non- profit. So at this time there is not a property tax exemption being granted by the provincial government. G. Robertson: A question, then, on what exactly the member foresees here as being university purposes that qualify for exemption status. R.

Hawes: The exemption status allows the gov- ernment to grant an exemption for anything that's used for university purposes, which are fairly broad. How- ever, under the regulation section, it does allow the government to impose tax should the university be- come involved in anything that is of a commercial na- ture. Then the government can tax or not grant the ex- emption for anything done by the university for that purpose, for a commercial purpose.

Section 12 approved. On

section 13.

1630 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 G. Robertson: On

section 13, "Winding up and dis- solution," a question on what will happen to taxpayer dollars should they ever be invested in this project. R. Hawes: Madam Chair, he beat me to the punch getting up. I would like to move the amendment to this

section that is standing in my name in the orders of the day. [SECTION 13, by adding the text shown as underlined: Winding up and dissolution 13

(1) On the winding up or dissolution of the university, the funds and property remaining after (

a) payment of all costs, charges and expenses properly incurred in the winding up or dissolu- tion, including the remuneration of a liquidator, (

b) payment to employees of the university any salaries or wages, (

c) payment of any debts of the university, and (

d) setting aside funds necessary to finish student transcripts shall be distributed to the Secretariat provided that the Secretariat is a registered charity as defined in the Income Tax Act (Canada), or, in the event that the Secretariat is not a registered charity or has been dissolved or has ceased to exist, the remaining property of the university shall be distributed to qualified donees, as defined in the Income Tax Act (Canada), having similar objects as the university, as designated by the board.

(2) For the purposes of distribution under subsection (1), any funds or property originally received for specific purposes must, wherever possible, be distributed to qualified donees concerned with purposes similar to the specific purposes for which the funds or property were received.

(3) The provisions of the Business Corporations Act relating to the winding up of a company apply to the university, but wherever there is a reference in that Act to a special resolution, the reference is deemed to be a reference to a resolution of the board.] Amendment approved. On

section 13 as amended. G. Robertson: Do you want me to repeat my ques- tion? My question was relate d to taxpayer dollars, pro- vincial tax dollars. Should they be invested? What happens to them in that circumstance? R. Hawes: I'll answer the ques tion, although we're not really sure if this is the question the member was asking. If there were tax owing to the provincial gov- ernment on a windup, we can only assume that since they are a non-profit, it would be tax that could have been on some commercial endeavour, should there ever be a commercial endeavour. That tax, I'm assum- ing, would have been collected.

If you're talking about property tax, I'm also assuming that property tax would be paid as it falls due. Regardless of the status, if there is property tax payabl e, the municipality has lev- ers to collect that tax rega rdless. The property doesn't leave.

Section 13 as amended approved. [1035]

Section 14 approved. On

section 15. G. Robertson:

Section 15 is on application of other acts.

Section 5 of the Offence Act — which, it's stated here, does not apply to this act — reads: "A person who contravenes an enactment by doing

an act that it for- bids, or omitting to do

an act that it requires to be done, commits an offence ag ainst the enactment." My question is: why, if the university qualifies as a person under the general powers in

section 4, would

section 5 of the Offence Act not apply? R. Hawes: This is standard language, and it has been used in previous acts such as with the Sea to Sky University establishment. So there is precedent here, and the act follows that precedent. Sections 15 to 17 inclusive approved.

Preamble approved. Title approved. R. Hawes: I move that the committee rise and re- port the bill complete as amended. Motion approved. The committee rose at 10:38 a.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Reporting of Bills WORLD TRADE UNIVERSITY CANADA ESTABLISHMENT ACT Bill Pr401, World Trade University Canada Estab- lishment Act, reported complete with amendment. Mr. Speaker: When shall the bill be considered as reported? R. Hawes: With leave, Mr. Speaker, now.

Leave granted. [1040] Third Reading of Bills WORLD TRADE UNIVERSITY CANADA ESTABLISHMENT ACT Bill Pr401, World Trade University Canada Estab- lishment Act, read a third time and passed. Hon. G. Abbott: I call estimates debate for the Min- istry of Public Safety and Solicitor General.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1631 Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND SOLICITOR GENERAL The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Hawkins in the chair. The committee met at 10:43 a.m. On Vote 36: ministry operations, $500,222,000. Hon. J. Les: I'm pleased today to have the opportu- nity to present the estimates of my Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General.

Let me start, first of all, by introducing the staff that are with me here at the mo- ment: Deputy Minister David Morhart, Assistant Dep- uty Minister for Police Services Kevin Begg, and Jim Crone, who is the ADM for Management Services. Interjection. Hon. J. Les: The finance guy. Madam Chair, every branch of the ministry, obvi- ously, is in the business of protecting public safety. Every day the staff in my ministry work to make sure that B.C.'s communities and residents are safe and that they stay that way.

I am proud to say that our pro- grams, policies and special programs are giving British Columbians a strong sense of safety and security and peace of mind in their communities. [1045] My portfolio includes a wide range of public safety programs such as law enforcement and corrections, crime prevention and victim services, emergency pre- paredness response and recovery, coroner services, driver safety, fire preven tion, consumer protection, liquor and gaming regulation and, of course, more re- cently the new crystal meth secretariat.

We are all working to meet the new government mandate and the five great goals as they relate to health and public safety of all British Columbians. We're committed to public safety, as I've said, and to- day, more than ever, threats to that safety come in many different forms.

The recent devastation that we've seen in the southern United States as a result of Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita, the devastating earthquake in Pakistan very recently, and about a year ago, or just less than a year ago, the tsunami that oc- curred in South Asia all serve as grim reminders of the severity and brutality of natural disasters and how quickly they can strike. By their very nature, these events are unpredictable in their timing, scope, severity and impact. But through ou r provincial emergency program, we are always working hard to be prepared.

Our past experience and ongoing research and training has given us in British Columbia one of the best- structured and best-trained provincial emergency management programs in the country. In the months ahead we are going to continue to build upon our previous achievements and through local, regional and cross-ministry cooperation focus on mitigating the negative consequences of potential emergencies in the future.

The expansion of the pro- vincial emergency program through the addition of emergency social services, as well as the transfer of the office of the fire commissioner, will also contribute to the ministry's work in promoting the safety and secu- rity of all British Columbians. In addition to natural disasters, there are a host of other challenges to public safety that are not unique to British Columbia. Governments and law enforcement agencies throughout the world deal with many of the same issues.

These are thin gs like organized crime, grow ops and drug labs, drug addiction, auto theft, impaired driving, property crime, youth gangs and also new and emerging crimes like Internet luring and cybercrime. What is unique to British Columbia, how- ever, is our response to these challenges. We have started simply. We have worked with our policing and community safety branch to give the po- lice the tools they need to do their job.

We now have high-tech communication systems in place, like PRIME, so that police can report crime instantly and share those details about that crim e with officers in other jurisdictions on a real-time basis. There are integrated policing units like ISPOT, which monitors known sex- ual predators, as well as an integrated homicide unit which has one of the best solve rates of any homicide unit in North America. There are new integrated traffic units which will hire up to 100 new officers to focus on road safety and enforcemen t of traffic bylaws.

The units have officers from the RCMP and municipal po- lice forces dedicated to protecting the public against such things as drunk drivers, street racers and aggres- sive drivers. A common theme throughout my ministry and other ministries as well is the concept of integration. We want to make sure that all of our agencies and par- ticularly all of our policing agencies work in a very integrated fashion. We've also worked with the office of the superintendent of motor vehicles to bring in tough new laws, some of the strictest in the country, targeting impaired drivers to make our streets safer.

We have increased penalties and fines. We have al- lowed police to impound vehicles immediately, and, for the first time in British Columbia, there is a manda- tory rehabilitation program for impaired drivers. For repeat offenders, there is a new ignition interlock pro- gram that can be ordered by the superintendent of mo- tor vehicles. We're on the verge of commissioning a designated policing unit for SkyTrain so that commuters will be safer in the lower mainland. There is a new Integrated Gang Task Force to help deal with the high rate of murders among Indo-Canadian men and other gang- related crime.

To date $8 million has been spent, with almost 80 police officers available for that function. [1050] The bait car program has been highly successful in pushing back on auto theft. We have seen statistics, particularly here on the South Island, for example,

1632 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 where auto thefts have decreased in some cases by as much as 41 percent, which I think is certainly great evidence of a program that's working very success- fully. We also brought in AMBER alert to help find ab- ducted children more quickly and more successfully. Earlier this year we announced the biggest invest- ment in policing in over 20 years in British Columbia — a three-year, $122 million in vestment that translates into 215 new RCMP officers for the province.

We've also announced and implemented the return of 100 percent of all traffic fine revenue to municipalities so that they can spend that money on policing and public safety. As always, there is much more work to do, but as you can see, we have made real and significant pro- gress in helping keep our communities safe. I believe the steps that we've taken have made this province a safer place to live and to raise a family, and that is the key measure of our success.

One of the things that I've learned as Solicitor Gen- eral is that perhaps my most important job is to give people across the province a sense of hope, optimism and confidence. That is why I want parents to know that we are working hard to protect their children from crystal meth with a cross-government, integrated strat- egy which will include enhanced treatment and a provincewide education campaign. I want families to know that we are fighting marijuana grow ops that have turned some of their neighbourhoods into base camps for organized crime.

I want business owners to know that we are committed to making sure that city streets and downtown areas are safe for retailers and their customers alike. I am proud of our ministry's record and excited about our future progress as w e c o n t i n u e t o p r o m o t e and implement cutting-edge approaches to enhancing public safety. In particular, I would like to mention two initiatives that promise to have a wide-ranging and positive impact on public safety.

In December we will be hosting a provincial congress on public safety, pro- viding an opportunity for public discussion and an opportunity to create new partnerships with local communities and across all levels of government. We have also recently passed in this House civil forfeiture legislation. This will help ensure that criminals will not be able to profit from the proceeds of unlawful activity. Now I'd like to talk in a bit more detail about what we've done with some of the specific branches and services within the ministry and what we're planning to do in the future.

I've outlined some of the many things that we're doing to fight crime and prevent crime before it happens. I would love to be able to say that no one will ever be vi ctimized in the province again, but I know, obviously, that cannot be true, un- fortunately. But when crime does happen, there are, invariably, victims of crime. That is why, through our victim services division, we are working hard to make sure that victims of crime get the benefits and, just as importantly, the support they need when they need it. Every year this government pays out about $12 million through the crime victim assistance program.

We also provide ongoing assistance and monthly pen- sions for over 400 claimants. In addition, there are over 150 police and community-based victim services pro- grams across the province as well as a 24-hour multi- lingual victim support line. We are providing much- needed financial assistance, referral services and prac- tical support, but perhaps most importantly, we are helping to restore dignity to crime victims so that they can continue on with their lives. The mandate of the corrections branch in the minis- try is to protect public safety through the management and control of offenders.

The branch runs ten correc- tional facilities throughout British Columbia which house approximately 2,400 inmates. The branch also operates a wide variety of programs and strategies that assist in rehabilitating offenders for the time when they will once again be part of the community. For example, since the inception of the substance abuse management program, more than 10,000 offenders have attended that program.

The branch also works with police to protect the public from high -risk offenders by sending out public notifications. [1055] My ministry is also responsible for both the distri- bution of liquor through liquor stores and also for regulating liquor in license d establishments. There are 208 government liquor stores, 559 licensed retail stores, 230 rural agency stores and more than 150 other pri- vate retail establishments. The liquor landscape in Brit- ish Columbia provides both access and competition through a mix of public and private liquor outlets.

When it comes to liquor in licensed establishments, the key job of the liquor control and licensing branch is to protect public safety through the enforcement of regulations dealing with, amongst other things, overservice, overcrowding and service of liquor to mi- nors. The branch ensures th at liquor licensees protect and uphold the public intere st. They do that by work- ing closely with police, local government and licensees to make sure that there is a careful balance between the maintenance of a positive environment for business and the responsible use of alcohol.

One of the projects underw ay at the branch is the development of new policies and procedures to ensure that all liquor applicants undergo increased scrutiny and investigation so that we can better target the in- volvement of possible crim inal elements within li- censed establishments. In 2005-2006 the province is projected to receive an estimated $900 million in net gaming revenue. That money will be distributed to the people and communi- ties of British Columbia. One of the key goals of our gaming policy is to ensure that as many charities and community organizations as possible benefit from gaming funds.

At the same time, the gaming policy and enforcement branch make s sure that when people are participating in gaming, they do so in a safe and regulated environment. They are also working to re- duce the impacts of excessive gambling and encourag-

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1633 ing responsible gambling practices through the respon- sible gaming strategy. The B.C. Coroners Servic e is responsible for the investigation of all unnatural, sudden and unexpected, unexplained or unattended de aths in the province of British Columbia. The coroner's office also has a man- date to review the deaths of all children in the prov- ince. The office is not a fault-finding agency but, rather, a fact-finding agency that makes recommendations to improve public safety and prevent future deaths in similar circumstances.

The coroner's office has released a comprehensive report on safe sleeping practices for infants and publishes regular statistical reports on the number of deaths from vari ous causes throughout the province. The chief coroner is working with the re- cently announced review panel to ensure that our sys- tem of child-death review in British Columbia is the best that it can possibly be. Executive and support services is a core business area that plays a strong ro le in supporting the entire ministry. It consists of my office, the deputy solicitor general's office, the corporate policy and planning of- fice, the B.C.

Board of Parole, the consumer services and the film classification office.

In conclusion, we are working hard to support the five great goals of the newly elected government: firstly, to make B.C. the best-educated, most literate jurisdiction on the continent; secondly, to lead the way in North America in healthy living and physical fitness; thirdly, to build the best system of support in Canada for persons with disabilities, special needs, children at risk and seniors; fourthly, to lead the world in sustain- able environmental management with the best air and water quality and the best fisheries management bar none; and, fifthly, to create more jobs per capita than anywhere else in Canada.

I have said before that everyone in my ministry is in the public safety business. When you think about it, every British Columbian is as well, because public safety and preventing crime always begin at home and in each individual community. In closing, I would simply say that we will continue to work with all British Columbians to implement new and innovative responses to crime and to enhance pub- lic safety in our homes, neighbourhoods and communi- ties. We will also work clos ely and in partnership with all levels of government, local partners and jurisdic- tions, both across the country and internationally.

Madam Chair, I will conclude my remarks and look forward to responding to any questions that members of this chamber may have. J. Brar: Following the new spirit of new tone and cooperation, I've been working with the Solicitor Gen- eral and his staff to ensure we have a very productive, meaningful estimate debate. But in doing that, I think I have earned the right to have very specific, appropri- ate, simple answers to my qu estions. I understand that the estimate debate is stressful, particularly to the min- ister responsible and staff members and, to some ex- tent, on this side of the Ho use as well.

That could be- come a safety issue, so I'm aware about that. So I will continue to be sensitive when I'm asking my questions. [1100] I would like to start with a very simple question to begin with. If the minister can table any significant changes — not everything, but any significant changes — we have in the budget and the rationale for those things, very briefly. Hon. J. Les: First of all, let me assure the member that I'm feeling fairly mellow this morning, no stress whatsoever, and I will do my best to ensure that the members opposite's stress levels are relieved as well.

In reply to the question in terms of significant changes within the ministry from last year to this. First of all, there's been an oper ating budget increase of al- most $45 million. The key budgetary changes are as follows. There was $30 million for the cost of adding 215 RCMP officers to the prov incial police service and $8.9 million that accrues to additional RCMP salaries. As the member may know, that really is an increase over which we have little if any control. It's simply part of the policing contract, the provincial contract.

To address increased workload and safety require- ments in the correctional institutions and probation offices: $6.2 million; half a million dollars for the sex offender relapse prevention program; $800,000 for the implementation of new measures to combat drinking and driving; $670,000 for funding of operational pres- sures in the coroner's office; $300,000 for added correc- tions costs related to the 215 new RCMP officers being added; and $190,000 for various miscellaneous in- creases. [S. Hammell in the chair.] M.

Sather: I wanted to ask the minister some ques- tions and make some observations about the relation- ship violence treatment program — treatment for men who have been convicted of spousal assault or who have entered into an undertaking of the court to re- ceive treatment for that offence. By way of background, I worked in that program for a number of years, and so I wanted to make some of my comments about what I observed and get some feedback from the minister .

I was a therapist in the relationship violence trea tment program, a 17-week treatment program for men which was preceded by a ten-week program administer ed by probation officers, called Respectful Relationships. Are those two pro- grams still in place? [1105] Hon. J. Les: I can advise the member that both of those programs are still in place. M. Sather: One of the observations that I had has to do with the length of the probation order. What I ob- served was that a number of times, the men's probation order would expire after they had finished the Respect- ful Relationships program, and they would not then

1634 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 get into the treatment program because their order had expired. Is the minister aware of this issue? Is it a con- cern, and is there anything being done to address that? Hon. J. Les: I want to thank the member for the question. It is a very rele vant question and one that does cause us concern. Obvi ously, when there isn't an appropriate match between the probation order and programming that might be available, that is a crack through which people can fall. We are available and from time to time do have input at the sentencing stag e.

We are in discussion from time to time with the judiciary and endeavour through that mechanism to make them aware of those concerns and perhaps to make better use of input that can be provided by the corrections service, so that judges are aware when they 're passing sentence that there has to be a certain cohesion between the proba- tion order and the availability of programming. M. Sather: I believe the member for Surrey– Panorama Ridge is watching me with a jaundiced eye, so I will try to get in at least one more question or con- cern that I have.

It has to do with the nature of the two programs that I mentioned. The RR program, if I may call it that, Respectful Relationships, is a program whereby men are given latitude — at least they were up to the time I left it a year and a half ago — as to their participation in the program. If they did not want to answer a question, they were told they didn't have to, and their level of participation was somewhat, quite considerably, at their discretion. However, I and other therapists found that that is a problem when they then come into treatment, where the expectation is different.

This is not a therapy program in the usual sense. These men have committed a crime. We have a duty to society and to their female victims to hold them to account, so it's very important that they be re- quired — and they always were required — to answer questions about what, in fact, they had done. I and other therapists found that the men who come through the RR program oftentimes were actu- ally less ready for treatmen t and more resistant to treatment than when they di dn't have the RR program, so that's a big concern.

It makes it much, much harder to deliver the kind of service that needs to be delivered to be effective to protect society and to protect women. I just wondered if the minister had any comments about that. Hon. J. Les: Again, I appreciate the question from the member. Obviously, he has considerable personal background in these issues, and I appreciate that and certainly wouldn't mind at some point, perhaps over lunch in the dining room, discussing these issues fur- ther. What I can advise the member, however, is that we have an ongoing review process of these programs, and I think that is appropriat e .

I n t h a t r e v i e w w e i n - volve academics and other authorities, as well, to en- sure that we have a process of continuous improve- ment in place. [1110] It is my personal interest, obviously — as I think it should be — that when offenders are eventually re- leased from incarceration or when they complete their programs, we release a person back to society who can actually function properly within society. We see, in too many instances, evidence of offenders being re- leased no better than the day that they entered into incarceration. I think that is a somewhat disturbing trend.

Sometimes the police will tell you that they can almost predict in advance an offender reoffending. All they need to know is his release date, and they can predict the next offence happening. I think we all need to work constructively to ensure that our treatment programs work better. I'm commit- ted to doing that. I know my ministry is as well, and I would certainly, over time, welcome any further input the member might want to provide. J. Brar: Before I say anything, I would like to say thank you to the staff members. I've had a meeting with them, and they have b een very, very helpful, and supportive even.

I was offered a tour of two different corrections service facilities. Thank you very much to all the staff members for your support. One of the comments that the minister made in his opening remarks was about traffic fines. I want to ask the Solicitor General…. On September 24, 2004, the Premier made the announcement at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention in Kelowna that his gov- ernment would return to communities 100 percent of all net traffic fine revenue generated within any mu- nicipal boundaries.

The Premier further said: "We will be providing the revenues from all traffic fines to mu- nicipalities to make sure that they can have the support they need for additional po licing, public safety pro- grams and crime prevention." The government, in fact, has returned approximately $116 million over a two- year period. My question to the Solicitor General is very simple. Can the Solicitor General inform whether the $126 million in traffic-fine revenues has been used by all municipalities for its intended purpose or not?

Does the government have any stats they can produce explaining what the cit- ies, towns and districts did with that funding? Hon. J. Les: I just want to, first of all, correct the fig- ures that the member is using. By my figures…. I believe the member referred to $126 million over a two-year…. Interjection. Hon. J. Les: Pardon? Interjection. Hon. J. Les: No, actually, it's not that high. The fig- ures I have over a two-year period are something in the area of $90 million — $41.8 million plus $49 million.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1635 In any event, it is a significant amount of money that has been made available to municipalities. I re- member well, when I was a mayor myself, how irked I always was that this significant amount of revenue that accrued from policing activities that were paid for by municipalities actually went to provincial general revenue and were never seen again. Although by Sep- tember of '04 I was on the other side of the fence, I was certainly very pleased, as I thought the transferring of that revenue to the municipal sector was, indeed, very appropriate.

I think it has been well received, obvi- ously, by the municipal sector as well. Concern has been raised that these moneys do, in fact, go to policing and public safety enhancement ac- tivities. The Union of B.C. Municipalities has recently completed a survey which has proved to our satisfac- tion that the vast majority of the funding is, in fact, going into policing and public safety initiatives across the province.

I have certainly been vocal, as well, with those municipalities where th ere has been an expres- sion of concern that we do want to see those revenues transferred directly into police and public safety– related programs. [1115] At this moment in time I can advise the House that I think that is happening in an adequate way across the province. Every community is doing that in a some- what different way, but the funding is actually going to the purposes intended wh en the Premier made the announcement in September of last year. J.

Brar: Well, I'm pleased to see what the Solicitor General is saying in response to my question. When this announcement was made, it was very, very well received, particularly by the police organizations and associations, as a very positive initiative to assist in dealing with crime and other issues that were unique to each community. It was understood that this fund- ing would assist in buying new equipment, hiring new police officers and dealing with concerns of the com- munity via crime prevention initiatives. I just met — and probably the Solicitor General also met — with the B.C.

Federation of Police Officers rep- resentatives just a couple of weeks ago. That's not what they mentioned to me. They mentioned something much different from what I heard from the Solicitor General. Is it true that many municipalities put the traffic fine revenue into general revenue and never spent it on policing initiatives? Hon. J. Les: As I'm sure the member understands, the municipal finances, fran kly, are one general fund, with the possible exception sometimes of utilities. So yes, these traffic fine reve nues, when they flow from the province to the municipality, would go into their general fund.

As I said earlier, though, we are confi- dent — given the survey that has been recently accom- plished by the Union of B.C. Municipalities and from our own observations within government — that the vast majority of that funding is in fact going into the purposes intended. It does not necessarily always translate directly into additional officers. As the member indicated in his remarks, there are a variety of things in which this money can be invested, but all with the objective of enhancing public safety, crime prevention and crime fi ghting.

I say again that I think that has been accomplished to our satisfaction. There was certainly the odd community here and there that seem ed to be having som e difficu lty obtaining or achieving that objective, but we are monitoring that closely. We'll continue to do so to make sure that that significant amount of money is actually being used for the purposes that governme nt intended in the first place. J.

Brar: I understand that the UBCM has done a survey to find out what this money has been used for, but I think that if I were th e Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General, of course, I would be concerned that the money the province has given to municipali- ties is in fact spent on the purpose which is very clearly defined by the province. I would like to ask another question. Probably, the minister can help me on that. Are there any policies, procedures or legislation in place to ensure that the funding — the traffic fine money — i s u s e d f o r c o m - munity safety and policing issues only? Hon. J.

Les: First of all, let me say this. Having been elected myself in municipal politics for a considerable length of time and now having had the privilege of being elected provincially for four or five years, I be- lieve it's fair to say that the Union of B.C. Municipali- ties enjoys a great reputati on around the province and has always worked very cons tructively with provincial governments for…. Well, I guess it's exactly a hundred years now. [1120] I have f ou nd t hem alway s to be very c onst ru ctive. Currently in my role as Solicitor General….

They were certainly very aware of concerns we were starting to express that maybe not all of the revenues that had been collected under traffic fines and thus transferred to municipalities were being used for police and public safety purposes. It was in re sponse to that that they undertook the survey. Frankly, I have complete confi- dence in the work that was accomplished by the UBCM.

In a similar vein, in response to the member's ques- tion, "Is there legislation or other compulsive mecha- nisms that direct that money specifically through mu- nicipal budgets into policing…?" We do not employ a heavy-handed approach when it comes to our relation- ship with the municipal se ctor in British Columbia. Municipalities are valued partners and, I think, respon- sible partners. They clearly have understood that the money that accrued to them through traffic fine reve- nue was to be used for the purposes intended and as laid out by the province.

Again, as I've said before, we are satisfied that, by and large, they have complied with that direction

1636 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 without any need for the pr ovince to impose legisla- tion, which I think would be, frankly, quite a disre- spectful thing to do. I know of no particular other area where that might have been done in the past. J. Brar: I would like to conclude this part of the debate. I will take the remarks made by the Solicitor General this way. Basically, the Solicitor General gave us the assurance that the money which has been handed over to the municipa lities under traffic fines is in fact used for the purpose for which it was intended.

I will take that comment on that one. I'll move on to the other, probably bigger issue on police. My understanding is that the Solicitor General supports the integration of police at this point in time. That process was started a few years ago and is still working forward on that direction. My question to the Solicitor General is: can he list the different units which have been integrated in the last few years under this new initiative — just a list of those different task forces or whatever? Hon. J. Les: The member is correct.

Frankly, I enjoy repeating the fact that integration is an absolute neces- sity and something that we are promoting aggres- sively. The member will be aware that the "a" word sometimes comes up as well, and that's amalgamation. That is not something that I am particularly pursuing at the present time. [1125] My message to policing agencies and communities, as a matter of fact, would be that we do not necessarily need to amalgamate, but I do expect that we integrate resources wherever possible.

I think that is the respon- sible thing to do — b o t h i n v i e w o f u s i n g t a x p a y e r s ' dollars efficiently but, perhaps more importantly, mak- ing sure we get the policing results that we need. As we certainly are aware, the nature of crime changes along with the rest of soci ety, and crime and criminals are becoming more sophisticated.

The member asked specif ically about the areas where we have already integrated resources, and I can list a number of them: the ISPOT program, which is the Sexual Predator Observation Team; IHIT, which is the Integrated Homicide Invest igations; traffic and road enforcement; cybercrime; PRIME, which is the com- munications structure that I referred to earlier, which I have actually seen in operation in police cars. If the member wants to take advantage of an opportunity, I think that would be something well worth having a look at.

There's the IMPACT program, which we sometimes know as the bait car program, and the emergency re- sponse teams. Dog sections are being integrated, and the Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit…. Those are all areas, for the most part, of fairly recent integration of police resources between the provincial force and municipal forces. J. Brar: Are there any other specific initiatives going on at this point in time that this House should know of, with regard to the integration of police in the near fu- ture? Hon. J.

Les: In response to the member's question, I can refer to two areas that are currently under consid- eration. There is a serious crime unit being talked about for the lower part of Vancouver Island. There's some significant interest in that, and it's certainly, again, something that I'm very supportive of. Another area where we are giving consideration is for an expansion of the Integrated Homicide Investiga- tion Team in the lower main land area. There are still a few independent police forces that are not included in that integrated team.

Frankly, I would like them to be, and we'll work to help ensure that that happens. J. Brar: I think one of the pu rposes of the integra- tion is effective communication across different police jurisdictions as well as support and collaboration. Dur- ing the long Air India trial, we read a lot of stories about the miscommunication or lack of communication between the RCMP and CSIS. I think that is kind of alarming sometimes, when you hear through the me- dia as to what was going on.

So did we learn anything from that — what is defined as a lack or gap of com- munication when it relates to the global situation of policing and community safety? [1130] Hon. J. Les: As all members of the House will know, 9/11 was a very significant event in the history of the world, at least in re cent history, and from that, we all learned many things. Communications strategies were certainly right at the top of the list of things that needed attention.

As a result of 9/11, a committee was established that meets immediately afte r every emergency event, whether that is here at home, domestically or abroad — I remember as recently as the train bombings in Lon- don, England, for example. There is now an open, full and free flow of communication between various agen- cies to make sure that everybody has recent and up-to- date information on which to make decisions. There are also mechanisms in plac e that ensure that informa- tion is fanned out to all agen cies that require that in- formation.

Recently there was a review of that process when there was an apprehension of a tsunami event on the west coast. I believe that was back in July. There were some concerns with the disse mination of that informa- tion at the time that the inci dent was in progress, or at least there was an apprehension that it was in progress. Luckily, nothing transpired at the end of the day, but there was a review process im plemented to ensure that we made improvements to that fan out system.

Clearly, we need to have an ongoing dialogue, and there is an ongoing dialogue between our police forces domestically, as well as CSIS and international agen- cies, to ensure that we have the most up-to-date infor- mation possible that will allow us to deal with threats not only from here at home but also from abroad.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1637 J. Brar: I agree with the Solicitor General that 9/11 and the bombing in London have had significant im- pact as to how we think about our safety, as well as how the police forces and intelligence forces can work more effectively to respond in a more effective way. [1135] When we talk about th e Air India thing…. That happened inside the country. We have collected tons of information on that, and we have the luxury of having that information here inside the country.

I would like to ask specifically if the minister can respond to it from British Columbia's point of view: is there is any learn- ing? Is there any lesson we learned from that? That, in people's minds, was a huge gap of communication between these forces. Hon. J. Les: Clearly, the Air India tragedy was one of the most tragic events that ever happened originat- ing from Canadian soil, and it has consumed an enor- mous amount of time, effort, energy and resources from a vast variety of agencies, not only here in British Columbia but nationally and abroad as well.

I should point out to the member that that was a federal investigation, and it was clear as the years un- folded and as the investigation unfolded that there were concerns raised with respect to communication between various agencies. I think those agencies have taken note of the concerns that have been expressed over time, and there are certainly improved procedures available today. Again, I want to stress th e importance of technolo- gies like PRIME, which allow police to enter new infor- mation from the scene on a real-time basis and make it available to other police everywhere.

It is those kinds of technology-enabled approaches to policing that are mak- ing a huge difference today. I was recently on a ride- along with the Vancouver police department, and the VPD, of course, has PRIME installed in its police cars. We were at a scene where a number of people were being apprehended, and within five minutes we knew of their gang connections and of the fact that the vehicles they were driving had been part of other investigations related to drug smuggling, for example.

It was pretty amazing to me how quickly in formation is available to police today on an integrated basis, and it certainly gives me great comfort that these are important new tools that will enable the police to do their jobs much better. J. Brar: Because of the time issue, I will move on to the next question. The Victoria police department did a report on the use of the Taser gun, because there were some questions.

One of the recommendations in that report was made to a provincial coordinator, who will be responsible to set some standards of training that go across the province and provide intelligence, again, to be made available across the province to all the forces. I want to know: has that been done? Where are we in that process? Can the minister just update? Hon. J. Les: I have breaking news for the member. One of the recommendations, as he points out, was for a provincial coordinator to be established and hired. That was, in fact, just done in the last few days. The person hired is Joel Johnson.

He will be starting work next week, and we will then have a provincial coordi- nator in place with respect to the use of Tasers. [1140] I would point out that the reviews that have been done around Tasers have proven that that is a perfectly acceptable way of arresting people — often, of course, far less lethal than the alternatives. I would point out, as well, that anyone who is permitted to use a Taser in British Columbia must pass the standard that is set out by the Justice Institute. J. Brar: Thank you for the information. This is a very quick question.

Is it possible to get a copy of the job description of the coordinator? Hon. J. Les: I will undertake to make that available to the member. N. Macdonald: I am under strict instructions to keep this very, very quick, so I will. It is around the tradition of the province paying for the full cost of po- licing for communities under 5,000. Five of the seven municipalities in my area are under 5,000, and con- cerns around the cost implications of any change….

Now, I know this has been around for a while, and I just wanted to give the minister an opportunity to ex- plain the direction that he's taking the ministry on this issue. Hon. J. Les: I appreciate the opportunity to respond to the member's question with respect to this issue. The member is correct; we have certainly indicated clearly that this is an issue that needs to be addressed. Up to now the municipal entities of under-5,000 population have not paid for policing services, and I think the case is rather easily made that that's an ineq- uitable situation.

We have be en in almost constant cor- respondence with the Union of B.C. Municipalities on this matter. We were hoping to implement a solution a year or two ago. For a variety of reasons, we decided to hold off that implementation, but we have clearly sig- nalled that in the year 2007, municipalities under 5,000 will have to start making payments in respect to the policing services to their communities. What we have not yet arrived at is a formula that will be implemented at that time. [1145] I am certainly sensitive to the cost pressures that might bring to bear in some of those smaller communi- ties.

I am not oblivious to that in any way, and I'm cer- tainly committed to workin g with those communities and with the Union of B.C. Municipalities so that we have a predictable and manageable situation in 2007, one that will not provide property tax rate shock to the residents of those communities in any great and unan- ticipated degree. But it is something that we are mov- ing forward with. That will not be a surprise to the UBCM or to their membership.

1638 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 N. Macdonald: I'll be really quick. Once again, I just have a minute to do this, so we can have the debate about the equitability. I'm glad that you're mindful of the implications for the communities — the implica- tions are huge, of course — and that you are going to take those into consideration, and we can have the de- bate around whether it's truly equitable or not. Thank you for your answer. J. Brar: I want to move on because, as I mentioned again…. Maybe I'll keep ment ioning that, because we have a very limited time.

I would appreciate it if the minister can provide us with a brief response so that we can go through all the questions. I will move on to Corrections. Is there any capital funding to build a new correctional facility in the budget? Hon. J. Les: I'm going to take the member's advice. The answer is no. J. Brar: I think that in the opening remarks the So- licitor General made a comment, I know, that was not about the capital but about $6.2 million with regard to safety requirements. Can you please provide a descrip- tion of that — as to what that is? Hon. J. Les: The $6.2 million is being spent as fol- lows.

It's for the addition of 57 front-line positions in correctional centres to help in supervising an increas- ing number of inmates that are in custody and increas- ingly difficult-to-manage inmates — those that are mentally disordered, gang members and high-profile cases — and also for safety and security improvements that will be implemented in probation offices in order to protect professional and administrative staff. As a result of that, we think the safety of staff, offenders and the general public will improve. J. Brar: I have one more question. This is the follow- up question.

Just a few years ago the government closed about 12 correctional facilities. I know that be- cause of that, there has been tremendous pressure on the corrections staff members in providing effective support in the correctional facilities. Is this new fund- ing a reflection of those facilities which have been closed in the past? [1150] Hon. J. Les: I should point out to the member that three or four years ago, wh en we closed those various locations, we actually had a declining inmate popula- tion in British Columbia. That has since reversed.

It wasn't only a declinin g prisoner population that brought about the need to close a significant number of those institutional locations. It was very much an effort driven by the need to be as efficient as possible in spending taxpayers' dollars. This is a very expensive enterprise. Operating in ten locations as opposed to 22, I think everyone would agree, has some inherent op- erational efficiencies that go with that that we have been able to take advantage of.

As I have already pointed out, we now have in- creases in terms of the number of inmates that are in custody at any given time, and it might be of interest to members of the House to know that the increases are actually more apparent on the remanded-inmate side as opposed to the sentenced inmates. That is part of an ongoing trend that's been apparent for some time. We anticipate that there might be some increases on the sentenced side as well. As the member may be aware, there was legislation introduced just several days ago in the federal House that is going to further limit conditional sentencing.

I would suspect that as a result of that, we are going to see more sentenced prisoners in custody in our prison system across British Columbia. J. Brar: I need to ask one more question, because the Solicitor General made the very interesting com- ment that those facilities were closed because the num- ber of inmates was declining at that time. Now what I've found out is that the number of inmates is going up. Is that in any way a reflection of crime going up, or what is that? Why is it that the numbers are going up? What is the rationale behind it?

Do we have any infor- mation on why it is that suddenly the numbers started going up? Hon. J. Les: Several factors. One that I've already touched on is the increased number of inmates that are actually on remand. That is one of the trends that is heading up. Secondly, it's clearly evident that we are getting better results out of our policing efforts, and that, obvi- ously, will translate into more people incarcerated. The member will be aware, as well, that conditional sentencing was put in place in the '90s and, I think, with some exuberance.

Since that time, a number of people on conditional sentencing have actually breached their provisions, which has resulted in them being incarcerated in our facilities. There are a number of factors. Those are three of them. There may well be others. What it has led to is increasing numbers of incarcerated individuals. J. Brar: Madam Chair, keeping in mind the time, should I continue? I think we have five more minutes to go. Interjection. J. Brar: I would like to move on to the B.C. Inte- grated Gang Task Force.

Over 70 young people have been murdered during the last about ten years, particu- larly belonging to the South Asian community. This issue seems to be out of control at this point in time. There are young people who somehow mistakenly get involved in the youth gangs. However, they don't want to be part of that an ymore. But there's significant peer pressure, and there's a lo t of fear, because if they leave the gang, there are very serious, serious repercus- sions.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1639 [1155] My question is: what kind of support is available to assist those young people who want to get out of gang life? Hon. J. Les: I appreciate the member raising this question. Obviously, it is a very serious one and with some serious ramifications in our communities. We all know of the case just in the last four or five days where a woman in Port Moody was a victim of flying bullets, shall we say, in what is suspected to have been a gang- related incident as well.

There are a number of programs, some of which are part of my ministry — victim and crime victims pro- grams — where there's a variety of moneys available: in some cases, $5,000; in other cases, $2,500 for ongoing maintenance of programs. There's also the Safer Schools program, which is being conducted in conjunction with the University College of th e Fraser Valley. There's a victims line that's available for people to access.

As I said before in our previous discussion around additional resources that are being made available to communities, some of that money can be directed to- wards programs to stem gang violence as well. The situation, I think, has certainly commanded our attention. We've responded appropriately. The Inte- g r a t e d G a n g T a s k F o r c e i s h a r d a t w o r k t o d e a l w i t h this issue, and I know they have been successful in some places — actually successful in stopping the commission of crimes in progress.

So we understand that it is a serious public policy issue and one that we think we are addressing proactively. We'll be looking for more ideas in the future as to how we can work constructively with communi ties, not only geographi- cal communities but also ethnic communities in the province, to ensure that we get a handle on this threat to the safety of individuals in our communities. Noting the hour, Madam Chair, I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. Motion approved. The committee rose at 11:59 a.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again. Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported resolution, was granted leave to sit again. Hon. G. Abbott moved adjournment of the House. Motion approved. Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until two o'clock this afternoon. The House adjourned at 12 noon. PROCEEDINGS IN THE DOUGLAS FIR ROOM Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF TOURISM, SPORT AND THE ARTS The House in Committee of Supply (Section A): H. Bloy in the chair. The committee met at 10:08 a.m. On Vote 39: ministry operations, $176,967,000. Hon. O.

Ilich: I ' d l i k e t o j u s t b e g i n w i t h s o m e i n - troductory remarks and introduce some of the people with me here today. We have a large crowd here, and they're not here just because we need a lot of support. They're here because there's no heat or lights in their building, so they decided they would like to have the free coffee and come over here and sit in the warmth and watch us. With me today is Virginia Greene, our deputy min- ister, and Bill Irwin, the ac ting assistant deputy minis- ter of tourism and resort development. Shauna Brou- wer is here behind me.

Sh e's the executive financial officer, and Russ Anthony is the president and project director of the Vancouver Convention Centre Expan- sion Project. We also have Charles Parkinson, who is the director of sport. The Premier has both hono ured and challenged me with a new ministry and a new mandate, which is to bring British Columbians together to build participa- tion, celebrate excellence and increase the social and economic benefits of tourism, sport and the arts. [1010] This ministry is about who we are as British Co- lumbians, who we are today and who we can be in the future.

We engage all British Columbians — youth, aboriginals, seniors, and pr ivate and not-for-profit sec- tors — in creating a province in which to live, work and invest. To build an economy that is already doing well is a challenge, but it's a challenge we must take up if we are to retain our edge in today's highly competi- tive global economy. For example, tourism is B.C.'s third-largest eco- nomic generator, contributing more than $9 billion a year to our provincial economy and employing more than 114,000 people in 18,000 tourism enterprises across B.C.

But worldwide, tourism is highly competi- tive, and we can't be satisfied to just sit on our suc- cesses. We need to continuall y be looking to the future and making ourselves even more attractive than we already are. Still, it isn't all about ec onomic growth. Before one visitor enters our province, we are already more than four million people, with a rich heritage, a firm sense of community and a desire to live our lives fully. British

1640 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 Columbians are active in outdoor recreation, in the arts and other cultural pursuits, and in team and individual sports. More importantly, the people of our province un- derstand the strong link between communities and volunteering, and volunteer they do — in huge num- bers — doing everything from coaching youth soccer to raising money for hospital societies to rehabilitating salmon streams. I see encouraging and supporting vol- unteers as one of the most important aspects of this job.

Our ministry is structured around three core busi- ness areas: tourism and resort development; sport, rec- reation and volunteers; and art, culture and heritage. Let me expand on some of these initiatives planned for the core areas. Earlier this year the government reaffirmed its commitment to tourism and the opportunities for tour- ism to create new jobs and new private sector invest- ment. The government also set out an ambitious goal: to dramatically increase tourism and employment and to double tourism revenues by 2015.

To help industry achieve this, we've made it possible for Tourism B.C. to double its budget to $50 million per year. We also gave $25 million to UBCM to help communities develop marketing initiatives to maximize their tourism poten- tial, and as well, we provided $12 million in one-time funding to the province's six tourism regions to en- hance tourism infrastructure and marketing. Doubling tourism within the next ten years is an aggressive target, and funding is only part of the equa- tion. To achieve this, we'll need to take a new look at where we're heading.

We'll need a larger strategy to guide our activities. To this end, we are planning to host an industry summit in 2006 that will involve gov- ernment, industry stakeholders, first nations and com- munities. Once we've pooled our ideas, the result will be a new road map that will outline how we as gov- ernment can best support industry and communities in doubling tourism revenues by 2015.

Other key initiatives in our mandate include strate- gic planning for tourism related to the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games; hosting the world partnerships; research and an alysis to support B.C.'s tourism associations; and working with Aboriginal Tourism B.C., first nations and other partners to sup- port the development of aboriginal tourism, including capacity-building, increased employment and identifi- cation of new tourism opportunities. I can't stress too much the effect of the entrepreneu- rial spirit when it comes to B.C. tourism.

Just today the Okanagan Falls Wine Festival Society announced that 2005, the 25th annual festival, was their most successful yet, with an increase of 16 percent in direct revenues to $3.7 million over ten days. This is a testament to the 67 wineries and more than 40 tourism operators who pro- vide this increasingly popular experience. Our ministry is also responsible for resort devel- opment and adventure tourism, including back- country skiing and ecotourism. Following up on the work done by the B.C.

Resort Task Force, our ministry will be leading the implementation of the British Co- lumbia resort strategy and action plan. We have under- taken comprehensive updates to our policies and guidelines, including tenure terms, land sale regula- tions and pricing. These ch anges will enhance B.C.'s competitive advantage and bring fresh investment to our province. With the cooperation of local governments in UBCM, we're developing a new harmonized resort approval process that will br ing together all provincial and local government approvals into one single process.

The 44 existing alpine ski resorts for which we are re- sponsible are projecting new capital investments of more than $1 billion over the next two to five years, and proposals for new projects in every part of the province worth over $4.5 billion in estimated capital investment are currently under review.

We will con- tinue to work to fully implement the resort strategy and action plan in 2005-2006 to further encourage the growth of B.C.'s resort sector. [1015] We have assumed responsibility for forest recrea- tion sites and trails, and we are committed to maintain- ing and developing these resources, including honour- ing the existing management and maintenance con- tracts. We will be looking for additional ways to en- hance these resources, because we know how impor- tant they are to British Columbians.

That importance is demonstrated by the wide range of individuals, busi- nesses, community organizations and societies that manage many of these sites. Kim and Kevin Coulter manage Five-Mile Boat Launch, Pitt Creek, Potlatch Creek and Sprague Bay recreation sites in the Columbia forest district. The Backcountry Horsemen Society of B.C. manage the Red Mountain Trail, Bear Mountain Trail and Mission TFL recreation trails in the Chilliwack forest district.

Other sites and trails are managed by groups as diverse as New Skeena Forest Products, Skatin nations and Squamish nation, Kaslo to Sandon Rails to Trails committee, the West Coast Dirt Riders, the B.C. Con- ference of the Mennonite Brethren Church and the Sunshine Coast regional district. We have a natural beauty that is beyond compare in B.C., and we will take our stewardship responsibility seriously to ensure development in sensitive areas is done properly and sustainably.

Turning to sport — I just want to talk about that for a few minutes — the sport and recreation and volun- teer business area has a mandate to increase participa- tion and achieve excellence in sport and physical activ- ity in British Columbia. In partnership with sport or- ganizations, other ministries and levels of government, we address issues and opportunities affecting over 850,000 members of B.C. sport organizations. This includes the B.C. Seniors Games, where up- wards of 2,500 competitors compete in 23 or more events with the support of more than 1,500 volunteers.

This past August, I atte nded the 2005 games in the Cowichan Valley and was impr essed by the spirit and goodwill of the organizers and participants. I was also impressed by the $1.7 million in economic activity gen-

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1641 erated for the local community and the $80,000 legacy fund that will be distributed to community organiza- tions. Already Canada's most active province, our goal is to increase physical activity across the province and in every age group by 20 pe rcent by 2010. Our recrea- tion and sporting initiatives support a Ministry of Health program, ActNow, launched in the spring of 2005, an initiative that combines cross-government and community-based approaches to increase well- ness and physical fitness.

It is through this multilevel, grass-roots support that amateur sport in B.C. will thrive, increasing physical fitness, encouraging excel- lence and building a system that will enable us to own the podium in 2010 and beyond. Canada has hosted the Olympic and Paralympic Games twice, but it's the only host country never to win a gold medal, and we hope that support for ath- letes and better training through our game plan pro- gram will remedy that lack in 2010. Sport tourism generates about $376 million in reve- nue for the province every year. It's one of the fastest- growing segments of the tourism sector.

Our ministry will continue to aggressively market British Columbia as a destination for major and international sport events. Upcoming events for which we have commit- ted funding include the 2006 Grey Cup — $500,000 invested in that; the 2006 Wo rld Junior Hockey Cham- pionships; the 2007 World Youth Soccer Champion- ship; and the 2008 North American Indigenous Games. These kinds of events attract visitors from across North America and from ac ross the world, and those visitors spend money in B.C. and return home and tell their friends about it.

In the case of the world youth soccer tournament, television will beam our province around the world. Of course, we aren't just focused on elite athletes. We want to support the fitness goals of all British Columbians at every age and participation level. Our province has the second-largest volunteer sec- tor in Canada, with more than 1.5 million active volun- teer positions. In 2000, B.C.'s volunteer sector contrib- uted 142 million hours of service. This is the equivalent of 74,000 full-time jobs.

For example, our 140,000 sport volunteers are at the heart of our amateur athletic sys- tem and a key partner in achieving the great goal of becoming the fittest jurisdic tion ever to host an Olym- pic and Paralympic Games. [1020] Volunteers are also crucia l to our arts, culture and heritage sectors. From the talented people who put on arts events in every corner of our province to the fund- raisers for our cultural institutions to the docents in our museums, volunteers are the real face of our province. Each year the Royal B.C.

Museum in Victoria sees some 550 volunteers, mostly seniors, giving nearly 50,000 hours of service at the museum. Volunteers as- sist with education programs and serve as interpreters and guides at the museum, and this connection with the community helps keep the museum vital and strong. The volunteers, too, stress the importance of serving as a role model for their children and grand- children by demonstrating an engagement with the community, intellectual curiosity and generosity in offering their time, experience and skills. Our goal is to continue building that volunteer force across the prov- ince.

Art, culture and heritage, the ministry's third core business area, support the delivery of cultural and heri- tage policy and programs. Key initiatives for these sec- tors include…. Cultural services involve developing a sustainable arts and cultural sector and promoting the arts. The heritage branch en courages and facilitates the protection and conservation of heritage in British Columbia. We demonstrate heritage leadership by identifying best practices and delivering specialized training. We now lead the nation in the number of records in the Canadian register of historic places.

A new community-driven B.C. heritage legacy fund has been established, and we look forward to cele- brating British Columbia's 150th anniversary in 2008. The archaeology branch en sures the protection and conservation of heritage sites, and the inventory con- tains records for about 30,000 sites, information that can be accessed by resource managers, first nations and the general public. We're also responsible for the B.C. Film Commission, which supports and markets British Columbia's film, location and production services to the international market.

The arts and culture sector contributes about $4.2 billion each year to the B.C. economy, including B.C.'s film and television industry, which is the third-largest in North America. Cultural tourism is also an impor- tant and growing contributor to our economy. More than 50 percent of visitors to B.C. indicate an interest in culturally based travel, and the World Tourism Or- ganization projects that cultural tourism will expand at an annual rate of 15 percent globally through 2010.

To capitalize on this emerging market, we need to find opportunities for tourism operators to partner with communities and cultural organizations. We need to help our cultural economy grow. In the coming years we will support new initiatives like the Asia-Pacific museum of trade, sport and culture, which will not only provide an exciting new tourism destina- tion but will foster a greater understanding of the con- tribution that Canadians from East Asia and the Pacific Rim have made to our history and our heritage. The Vancouver International Film Festival is a model for how to run a festival.

The 24th festival, which ran from September 29 to October 14, enjoyed a big boost in sales over last year, resulting in an overall record figure of $978,000. In addition, more than $1 million of the film society's $2.5 million budget was self-generated, the highest percentage for a major Ca- nadian film fest. As well, we are committing an additional $9 million over three years for the British Columbia Arts Council. The Arts Council supports a wide range of organiza- tions, like the Green Thumb Theatre, which for 30 years has been producing contemporary plays for children

1642 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 and youth that explore the issues faced by young peo- ple. Green Thumb original productions have been staged by more than 200 theatre companies worldwide in languages as diverse as Chinese, French, Spanish, German, Danish, Hebrew and Japanese. In conclusion, you have before you a budget esti- mate for 2005-2006.

With a budget of just under $180 million and 114 full-time-equivalents, we are a mod- estly sized ministry, but we are a ministry with broad responsibilities, and the sectors we support have a huge impact on the prospe rity and the social well- being of this province. The ministry has been forged from pieces of four other ministries, and for the 2005- 2006 budget year we are primarily reconciling the budgets established for those other agencies. [1025] Much of our budget allotment actually flows through to five service de livery Crowns. We have re- sponsibility for the Royal B.C.

Museum, Tourism B.C., the Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre, the Vancouver Convention Centre expansion project and the Provincial Capital Commission. Each of these agen- cies makes a significant contribution to the develop- ment of tourism, our province's third-largest industry and, in the cases of the Royal B.C. Museum and the Provincial Capital Commission, significant contribu- tions to preserving our heritage.

As a new ministry, we have the opportunity to cre- ate new plans that will encourage new investment, garner more worldwide attention, strengthen our tour- ism sector and create a vibrant cultural economy. We have an opportunity to demonstrate leadership on a national level and to focus on excellence, not just in relation to the Olympic and Paralympic Games but also in arts, culture and the pu rsuit of personal fitness goals.

With tourism and re creation, sports and volun- teers, arts and culture and heritage all under one roof, we have the opportunity to harness the natural syner- gies that exist to attract the highest benefit for every dollar invested. We will need to identify new resources in order to match our investments to our goals of dramatically expanding tourism, culture and heritage resources. As Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts, I want to do all I can to encourage creati vity and innovation in de- veloping these sectors throughout our province. N.

Simons: I'd like to just star t by thanking the minister and all of the minister's staff and the assem- bled congregation in the back. As a classical musician, I've thought of many ways to get people to attend the events in which I was performing. This is the first time that I used the heat and powe r idea. But I'd just like to thank the minister. I do have some questions about the new ministry. I think that really, this proc ess is about learning about the process of figuring out what exactly is involved in the minister's purview. If I may, I'll start with some questions on the area of tourism.

I was just wondering if the minister would be able to provide me with a breakdown of…. Well, let me start with saying that the core business area of tourism and resort development has seen an increase from 35 to 66 full-time-equivalents. My question, essentially, is: where do you see those full-time-equivalents being dispersed? Hon. O. Ilich: We have an increase of 15 percent overall in the full-time-equivalent allocation for tour- ism. Most of those are going into tourism and resort development. We've increased by 15 people, so that's a 43-percent increase there. A ll the rest are pretty well staying the same.

N. Simons: I also understand from the minister's service plan that the tour ism and resort development increase in operating costs will be from $6.2 million to $8 million in 2005-2006 and then $9.3 million in 2006- 2007. I'm wondering if the minister can explain what accounts for this increase. [1030] Hon. O. Ilich: I'd like to just answer the previous question first. Twenty-seven of the 50 people that we have in the budget for the full-time-equivalents for tourism are actually going to be in the forest recreation area. That will be enhanced forest recreation sites.

On the second question , the budget of $7.972 mil- lion includes an increase of $1.779 million relative to the restated budget, due to the prorated transfer from Land and Water B.C. N. Simons: J u s t t o g o b a c k t o y o u r a n s w e r t o t h e first question regarding the increase of funding to- wards forest recreation, can you describe what role the new FTEs will be performing in that area? Hon. O. Ilich: Those people actually have been transferred over from Land and Water B.C., so it's the people who were there before that have been trans- ferred, either from there or from the Ministry of For- ests.

They are going to stay in the regions and do what they were doing before, but the budget has been trans- ferred to this ministry. [M. Polak in the chair.] N. Simons: Just to clarify, then, that the increase in FTEs is, in fact, actually just a transfer of FTEs and that there's no actual increase. Hon. O. Ilich: That would be correct. N. Simons: The service plan of the minister says that the ministry will be working with other ministries to develop a tourism charter, so I'm wondering if, to date, there has been any initial work on that tourism charter and what that might have comprised. Hon. O.

Ilich: What we will be doing is identifying what areas of other ministries impact the tourism busi- ness — for instance, transportation, economic devel-

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 1643 opment, forestry, parks an d environment. So what we'll be doing is working with those ministries to make sure that we have a coordinated strategy to enhance tourism. N. Simons: Is there any projection as to the time frame when the tourism charter might be completed? Hon. O. Ilich: We hope that we will have the char- ter ready to go in the early part of next year.

We are planning to host an industry summit where we bring together people not only from the various ministries but also all the industry st akeholders, people that are interested in the tourism business. We will be charting a road map from that which will be part of the tourism charter. N. Simons: Has the ministry identified who these stakeholders are? Hon. O. Ilich: We will be working with the Council of Tourism Associations, which is an association of tourism operators. We will be working with Tourism British Columbia, people like the hotel association.

We'll be working with municipalities who have an in- terest in tourism. Those are the sorts of people we'll be working with. We're developing that list now. [1035] N. Simons: Thank you for the answer there. I'm wondering: is there any spec ific funding dedicated to the development of this charter? Hon. O. Ilich: For the actual charter there's no ini- tial cost. We'll be using most ly staff time, so there's no additional cost to government for the charter. We will be spending some money on hosting the summit, be- cause we are going to be bringing a number of people to one place.

We'll be requ ired, obviously, to provide them with things like coff ee and whatever and to pro- vide a venue. There will be some costs associated with that. We are still in the planning stages, so we don't really have a number for that. N. Simons: The service plan also notes that the ministry will be working towards a vision of sustain- able tourism. Can I get a little explanation on that? Hon. O. Ilich: We are working with our industry partner COTA — the Council of Tourism Associations — on that. They have a request for proposals out al- ready and have a successful proponent.

They will be reporting out on the sustainable tourism strategy in Penticton in February of 2006. N. Simons: Just for my edification, will COTA be developing the sustainable tourism vision for the min- istry? Hon. O. Ilich: They are developing it for the indus- try. They are an industry organization, and we are par- ticipating with them in that. N. Simons: My question: is there any influence that the ministry has over the stakeholders with whom COTA will be consulting? Hon. O. Ilich: Actually, we are working very closely with them.

The deputy minister is on the steer- ing committee, and we have a list of people that we've asked them to consult with. They are most open to suggestions from us to consult with other people. But I think what we have to realize is that it's the industry that's involved in tourism. We need their full participa- tion on any strategy that we implement, so we do work very closely with them. N. Simons: My next question to the hon. minister is: is there any indication of who will be invited to the summit? I'm not looking for an invitation at this point, but that might come later. [1040] Hon. O.

Ilich: We are right now developing that list as to who will be invited. We plan to invite the stake- holders that we believe are important to the industry, and obviously, there is a role for the critic there. We will also be open to any suggestions as to who the member might want to see on that list. N. Simons: I play the cello, if you need some enter- tainment. No, that's an aside. Now, will there be ongoing public reporting throughout this process or the development of the vi- sion, just to get back to that issue? Hon. O. Ilich: It is an entirely transparent process. We will be inviting the media.

The summit will be open. The COTA conference will be open. It will be fully accountable and transparent. N. Simons: My next series of questions relate to the B.C. resort strategy and action plan. My first question is: can the minister provide a brief update on the Resort Task Force initiative? Hon. O. Ilich: There was a task force on the resort strategy which reported out to government in June of 2004. This led to a resort strategy that has led to an action plan.

The chief one amongst those is the har- monized resort strategy, which will integrate the ap- proval processes of the municipalities into our ap- proval processes. N. Simons: Has that integrated resort approval process been formalized? Hon. O. Ilich: We have been reviewing the report with UBCM, and we should be in a position to report out on that in the next 30 days.

1644 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2005 N. Simons: I'm wondering if the minister can tell us if there's been any consultation process and what that might have looked like. [1045] Hon. O. Ilich: The task force had a number of peo- ple on it. It took one year to complete its task. There were representatives of loca l government, stakeholders and first nations. All together there were 17 groups represented on that task fo rce, and I think there was significant input from a number of areas. N.

Simons: I'd like it if the minister could explain how the integrated resorts approval process will be related to other processes such as the integrated land management bureau and the natural resource oppor- tunity centres. Hon. O. Ilich: The harmonized resort approval process actually does not interface with the integrated land management bureau.

The harmonized resort ap- proval process is an attempt to shorten the approval process from what we have right now, where we go through a lengthy approval process within our minis- try and within government and then, after we've ap- proved it, send it out to the local government for their approval. What we're trying to do is to be much more proactive with municipalities and local governments so we get their input a lot sooner in order to address those issues of concern to them. N. Simons: I'm presuming that local government and first nations are included. Hon. O. Ilich: Yes. N. Simons: I take that as a yes. Okay.

My next question relates to another framework in the service plan, and that is the integrated commercial tourism and resort policy framework. I'm just wonder- ing if the minister can enlighten us on what has al

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1103am-04
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1103am 04
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	05e6fea9557f7971be96e0013d72d963bac8b37d

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