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October 28, 2010

39th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2010-Oct-28 (PDF)

L062 - Thu 28 Oct 2010 / Jeu 28 oct 2010

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 28 October 2010 Jeudi 28 octobre 2010

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BROADER PUBLIC SECTOR

ACCOUNTABILITY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR

LA RESPONSABILISATION

DU SECTEUR PARAPUBLIC

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

PREMIER’S RECORD

CONSULTANTS

CONSULTANTS

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

AIR-RAIL LINK

HEALTH CARE

MEMBER’S CONDUCT

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN

PROTECTION FOR PEOPLE

WITH DISABILITIES

PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE

TAXATION

HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION

PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE

WATER QUALITY

MEMBER’S CONDUCT

VISITORS

CORRECTION OF RECORD

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

INGERSOLL PIPE BAND

FOSTER FAMILIES

MEMBER FOR KITCHENER–WATERLOO

NAVAL CLUB OF TORONTO

ST. CLAIR WEST SERVICES

FOR SENIORS

LITERACY FUNDING

KARATE PROGRAM

OPTOMETRISTS

OFFICIAL OPPOSITION’S RECORD

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

DUTCH HERITAGE MONTH ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LE MOIS

DU PATRIMOINE NÉERLANDAIS

PETITIONS

PROTECTION FOR PEOPLE

WITH DISABILITIES

HOME WARRANTY PROGRAM

ONTARIO SOCIETY

FOR THE PREVENTION

OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES

PROTECTION FOR PEOPLE

WITH DISABILITIES

ONTARIO SOCIETY

FOR THE PREVENTION

OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS

ONTARIO SOCIETY

FOR THE PREVENTION

OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS

REPLACEMENT WORKERS

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

ONTARIO SOCIETY

FOR THE PREVENTION

OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS

CEMETERIES

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

ONTARIO AWARD FOR PARAMEDIC BRAVERY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LE PRIX DE BRAVOURE DES AUXILIAIRES MÉDICAUX

DE L’ONTARIO

PROTECTING VULNERABLE PEOPLE

AGAINST PICKETING ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 VISANT À PROTÉGER

LES GENS VULNÉRABLES

CONTRE LE PIQUETAGE

PROTECTING EMPLOYEES’

TIPS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA PROTECTION

DU POURBOIRE DES EMPLOYÉS

ONTARIO AWARD FOR PARAMEDIC BRAVERY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LE PRIX DE BRAVOURE DES AUXILIAIRES MÉDICAUX

DE L’ONTARIO

PROTECTING VULNERABLE PEOPLE

AGAINST PICKETING ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 VISANT À PROTÉGER

LES GENS VULNÉRABLES

CONTRE LE PIQUETAGE

PROTECTING EMPLOYEES’

TIPS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA PROTECTION

DU POURBOIRE DES EMPLOYÉS

PROTECTING VULNERABLE PEOPLE

AGAINST PICKETING ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 VISANT À PROTÉGER

LES GENS VULNÉRABLES

CONTRE LE PIQUETAGE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOOD GOVERNMENT ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA SAINE

GESTION PUBLIQUE

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Good morning. Please remain standing for the Lord’s Prayer, followed by a moment of silence for inner thought and personal reflection.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BROADER PUBLIC SECTOR

ACCOUNTABILITY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR

LA RESPONSABILISATION

DU SECTEUR PARAPUBLIC

Resuming the debate adjourned on October 27, 2010, on the motion for second seading of Bill 122,

An Act to increase the financial accountability of organizations in the broader public sector / Projet de loi 122, Loi visant à accroître la responsabilisation financière des organismes du secteur parapublic.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Further debate?

Mrs. Liz Sandals: I’m very pleased to be able to speak to Bill 122, the Broader Public Sector Accountability Act.

Mr. Peter Kormos: Jeff, quorum. The minute I walk out and Ted walks out there’s no quorum. Get some people in here.

Mrs. Liz Sandals: I will carry on.

I’m very pleased to speak to Bill 122, the Broader Public Sector Accountability Act, and to voice my support for this act.

I’d like to begin by telling you a little bit about the legislation and what it will accomplish. The proposed legislation, if it’s passed, will do the following things: First of all, and what has perhaps been discussed most prominently in the media, it will create a ban on lobbyists that would prohibit many of the broader public sector organizations from using public funds to hire lobbyists. I need to emphasize the track here.

What we’re saying is that organizations that receive funding primarily from the provincial government should not be using those taxpayer dollars to pay for lobbyists to lobby the government to get more money. To us, that simply makes no sense and we’re going to put a ban on that practice.

That ban will apply to 259 classified agencies, which would include things like the LCBO, Cancer Care Ontario, all the various hydro entities and the one that has come to light as a result of the auditor’s report: large broader public sector transfer agencies like hospitals. It will also include transfer agencies like school boards, community care access centres and universities. In fact, any publicly funded organization that gets more than $10 million in funding from the provincial government will be included in this ban on taking taxpayer dollars and using them to hire lobbyists to get more taxpayer dollars. That’s the first thing the act will do.

It will also provide the government with the authority to make procurement directives that larger broader public sector entities will have to follow. This would apply to things like hospitals and school boards, and the procurement rules will be the same as the guidelines the ministries themselves are now following. This comes as a result of trying to work with some of these sectors—I’ll get to this later—with voluntary guidelines that align with the government’s own internal guidelines. As the auditor has pointed out, that hasn’t been successful, so now we’re saying that we’re going to legislate these guidelines.

There will be expense claim rules, because one of the things the auditor found was some egregious abuse of public dollars for expenses in some of these transfer agencies like hospitals. We will be putting an end to that. Again, this will give us the legislative authority to give directives to hospitals and school boards about what expense guidelines need to look like. We’ll also have rules related to transparency, that those expenses will actually have to be posted in some cases.

The posting would require LHINs and hospitals to comply with the directives around posting of expense claim information for designated individuals such as CEOs, board members and senior managers, and those would need to go on their public websites. Just as we currently have the ruling internally about needing to post expense claims for deputy ministers, other senior people around here, ministers and their staff, parliamentary assistants and opposition party leaders—all of those—we, the McGuinty government, will be extending that requirement in law so that others will be required to do that as well.

We will also be providing for increased oversight of hospitals and LHINs. The proposed legislation would authorize the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care to put in place new accountability measures specifically for hospitals and LHINs. That would require public posting of expense claim information, but in addition to that, it would require the reporting of the use of consultants. There are lots of legitimate uses of consultants, but what the public needs to know is when a hospital or LHIN is going beyond its own staffing and hiring a consultant. That would now be publicly reported automatically.

There would be what is known in law as an attestation, essentially a swearing—the member for Welland will correct me if that is wrong and an attestation is not really a swearing; I think that’s what it means—about each organization’s compliance with the requirements. So the CEO is going to have to swear that they have complied, and the ministry will be able to go in and directly audit the operations of LHINs and hospitals.

There are a number of attestations that will need to be made: the reporting on the use of consultants, the prohibition on engaging lobbyists, the compliance with expense claims and the compliance with the procurement directives. In fact, if it turns out that somebody is either not doing the required attestations or the attestations turn out not to be accurate, CEOs could actually have their pay docked.

This goes beyond trying to work with some of these agencies in a more voluntary policy mode, and says that we’ve done the policy thing and now we’re going to actually put this in legislation, because compliance with the policy directives has clearly been inadequate.

As people in this chamber will certainly be aware, the report by the Auditor General, which he did at the request of the public accounts committee, of which I am a member—there was unanimous agreement among the members of all three parties in requesting this special audit by the auditor. He audited 16 hospitals. He found that of those 16 hospitals, eight were using lobbyists inappropriately, which is why we are ending that practice now, and eight others had problems not necessarily with the inappropriate use of consultants but with respect to inappropriate procurement of consultants that would be acceptable to use.

It happens that one of the hospitals that were audited was Guelph General Hospital, my hospital. I’d like to give you a little bit of information about what they found there. My hospital was not one of the hospitals that was hiring lobbyists. They actually took the approach that they wanted to be quite public with the people of Guelph in letting the people of Guelph know what the auditor had identified and what they, as an individual hospital, were going to do to correct that.

In fact, they posted a lot of information on their website. They started by explaining the background of the Auditor General’s report, and went on to say—I’m quoting from their website:

“‘We welcomed the audit as an opportunity to help us identify strengths and opportunities to improve,’ said Richard Ernst, President and CEO. ‘All hospitals in the report, including us, had gaps in how well they managed the use [of] consultants.’”

The website goes on to say:

“In particular, GGH needed to improve its processes with regards to sole sourcing (the awarding of contracts without having a competitive bidding process) and follow-on agreements (extending existing contracts without a full review beforehand).

“More recently, the hospital has implemented a new, well-documented process for how it buys things, including consulting services. Among other things, its process requires directors to document and justify their needs prior to obtaining senior management approval. In addition, all consulting engagements will have contracts with clear deliverables, ceiling prices, payment schedules, and performance management processes identified.”

Those were all things that the Auditor General specifically identified as weaknesses in hospital procurement practices in general and in GGH’s practices in particular. They have moved to correct those problems that the Auditor General identified. The website goes on to say:

“‘The Auditor General report doesn’t question the need to use consultants, just the manner in which they are managed,’ Ernst said. ‘Health care is very complex and consultants provide an important service to hospitals as we don’t always have the expertise on staff.’

“For example, some of the recent ways GGH has invested in the knowledge and experience of consultants include:

“—targeted clinical reviews of departments to ensure quality of care and efficiency”—so they brought in an external reviewer to look how they can improve their practice;

“—implementation of IT projects, which improve efficiency, patient safety and quality of care”—and many organizations, not just hospitals, don’t have the IT expertise on staff and need to hire someone in to do specific IT projects, information technology, computerization, so that’s quite a normal use of consulting in the broader public sector;

“—training and education expertise”—and I know one that they specify, for example, was they brought in an external reviewer to look at their practices in the emergency room. That external reviewer identified a number of areas where they could improve practice and expedite service for patients who go to Guelph General Hospital.

They then engaged a consultant who had expertise in training to work through the implementation and training of that with all the emergency room staff, and it actually has resulted in a significant reorganization of the emergency room but also an improvement in the flow-through times at Guelph General Hospital. That was a question of procurement badly done. The result of the exercise had a positive impact on patient care in Guelph.

“—physician and executive recruitment”—I know they’ve had to replace a few doctors who are on staff and they had to replace their CFO, so they brought in what would be called a headhunter to help with that; and

“—environmental assessment”—issues where they’ve been required to do an environmental assessment for one reason or another. Again, that’s not expertise that they would have on staff. They need to bring somebody in. Nobody is arguing that. But what they also need to do, and what we are putting in this law, is making sure that when they do that, that they do it effectively, that they do it according to the rules, that it’s competitive, that it’s open, and there is a limit on what the consultant can bill.

Then the website goes on to say:

“The report”—this is the AG’s report—“provides guidelines about best practices engaging consultants. GGH has already made improvements to its policies and procedures in this area and now meets or exceeds the guidelines.

“In addition, the report recommends that hospital boards play a more active role in the oversight of the awarding of large contracts.

“‘To date, our board of commissioners has not expressed any concerns about management decisions to engage consultants,’ said the board chair, Peter Ferraro. ‘However, we will put processes in place to ensure our new policies and procedures are being followed and the board is more involved in the oversight of consulting engagements.

“‘Our board believes GGH is a very well managed organization. Through the fiscal challenges of the past year, we’ve managed to balance our budget and continue to provide the range of services our community requires. In fact, in the past two years, we’ve added a regional bariatric program and have been designated regional provider of elective vascular services.’” Then it goes on with a few more comments.

Obviously, once it was known that Guelph General Hospital was one of the audited hospitals, that created local media interest and the Guelph Mercury picked up on that story and reported much of the information that I’ve just given you here. They did point out that, “Guelph General spends about $700,000 a year”—slightly more than one half of 1%—“of its $120-million operating budget on consultants.” That’s probably not a terribly surprising fee. Mr.

Ferraro, who is mentioned earlier as the chair of the board of commissioners of the hospital: “Ferraro said Guelph General doesn’t use consultants for lobbying, noting that the hospital speaks directly on issues with Queen’s Park”—the Ministry of Health—“or Guelph Liberal MPP Liz Sandals.”

I can certainly attest to that. I get regular updates from the CEO and the chair of the board. Certainly, when there’s an issue where they think they need some help with the Ministry of Health, I’m in there; I get a visit from my friends at Guelph General Hospital. In fact, I often get a visit from my friend at Groves hospital, which is up in Fergus, in Mr. Arnott’s riding. They were in to see me just last week, too, with an issue that they’re looking at.

It’s not at all unusual, in my neck of the woods, to be dealing with all the different public sector organizations, none of which seem to think it is necessary to hire lobbyists to talk to the government. They do, in fact, come and talk to the local MPP.

With the few minutes that I have left, I’d just like to give a bit of the background to this because I think it’s important with hospitals to understand the track this has taken. When we came in to government in 2003, the Auditor General was not allowed to go into these broader public sector organizations. We changed the law so the auditor could actually look. Because we said, “Auditor, go take a look,” guess what? The auditor found things.

I know, because I’m on public accounts, that the first thing the auditor did was actually go into most of the major broader public sector organizations and look specifically, the first time through, at their procurement policies. He essentially said that none of these people have the rigour of the government’s own procurement policy.

I’ll quote the auditor in his report here. The government actually responded to that first round, and this is in the auditor’s description of what happened: “Recognizing the inconsistencies in procurement policies existing in the broader public service, the treasury board of cabinet directed in March 2008 that a supply chain guideline be prepared and, as of April 1, 2009, be incorporated into the ministry’s funding agreements with organizations receiving more than $10 million per fiscal year.

Two key documents were prepared: the supply chain code of ethics setting out overarching principles of conduct for organizations, their suppliers, advisers, and other stakeholders for acceptable behaviours and standards; and procurement policies and procedures governing how organizations are to conduct their sourcing, contracting, and purchasing.” He goes on to describe that in a bit more detail. “Treasury board announced that the code and procurement policy were to be implemented by April 1, 2010.”

But I want to note that, at this time, there was no legislative authority to put this in law, so what we did, as treasury board, was say, “Here are the guidelines you are expected to follow.”

I now go on to quote the auditor: “The hospitals we visited were all aware of the new requirements and acknowledged that the new supply-chain policies were an improvement. However, as of April 1, 2010, some hospitals had not yet fully implemented the policies,” and then he goes on to describe what they’re doing.

The point here is that we have been working on this ever since we came to government. We said to the auditor, “Look.” As a result of his first look, we said, “Here are appropriate guidelines.” It turns out that isn’t strong enough; now we’re putting it into law, and there is no question that people will have to follow the law.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Questions and comments?

Mr. Peter Kormos: I listened carefully and, quite frankly, enthusiastically to the member during her comments on this bill. She was thorough in her analysis of the bill,

section by section. I have no hesitation in stating that.

I’m going to be speaking to the bill myself in a few minutes’ time, for the modest 20 minutes that’s going to be allowed me this morning. While one can speak about the technicalities of the bill, one can also—and I shall—speak about the fact that you can drive a Mack truck through it.

They can’t even call them loopholes when it’s that big, when it’s big enough to drive a Mack—you know what a Mack truck is, huh? When I worked out in northern BC in the copper mines as a law student, I was the bottom rung of the food chain there; I was a greaser. A Mack truck is a truck where the tires are taller than you are. To change the oil, you’ve got to walk under it and reach up to change the oil in a crankcase on a Mack truck. So you could drive a Mack truck through the loopholes here.

This isn’t going to end lobbying and this isn’t going to end high-priced consultants all being paid for on the taxpayer dime. What this bill is really about is the sordid, unseemly relationship between politically connected lobbyists, publicly funded organizations and, more significantly, this Liberal government. To a large extent, the lobby industry is all about fundraising for political parties in power. It’s all about selling access to Premiers and ministers of the crown at 300 bucks a pop, 400 bucks a pop, 500 bucks a pop, whatever the market will bear.

Mark my words: If the Premier is shaking your hands at one of these well-heeled, highly funded access events, he’s looking over your shoulder to see who the next person is that he’s got to shake hands with. The handler for the Premier or a particular cabinet minister might deem you appropriate for a business card exchange—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Thank you. Questions and comments?

Mr. Jeff Leal: The member from Guelph spent some time this morning highlighting the contents of Bill 122. Certainly, I think we all agree here in the House that local MPPs, when they do their job of representing their communities—I know in my particular case, Peterborough Regional Health Centre never hired a lobbyist to talk to the provincial government. I can also say that Trent University and Fleming College in my riding have never used lobbyists to approach the provincial government, having a long-standing relationship with those three organizations.

We usually meet on a monthly basis to find out what is going on and how I can assist them in a whole variety of projects that they are moving forward.

I think we also need to separate the role of lobbyists from consultants. If you look at any organization, public sector or private sector, across the province of Ontario, from time to time they do employ engineering consultants. As a former municipal politician, for some large projects beyond the scope of staff within the organization, consultants were brought in. Indeed sometimes, when there was a CEO of a municipality to be hired, often there was a personnel consulting group brought in to scan Ontario and throughout other areas of Canada to get an individual who might be leading an organization that has a substantive budget.

I noted in a National Post

article written by John Ivison back in October—the title was “NDP Happy to Dance with ‘High-Priced, Well-Connected Insiders,’” at $1,000 a ticket on November 27.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Frank Klees: I listened with interest to the member from Guelph. Bill 122 really should be named

an act to divert attention from the real issues of how government has been done under the Liberal government. It’s virtually impossible for a member of this Legislature—albeit the Minister of Health, in her opening remarks relating to this bill, said that MPPs should be the real lobbyists and are empowered to do that. The fact of the matter is, we all know in this place that that is not the case.

Any member of this Legislature who has written letters to a minister knows full well that, with the exception of at least one minister whom I’m looking at right now, it takes us literally follow-up after follow-up after follow-up call to get a response. And then when we do, we get a template response.

The question really is, will this bill do anything to make government more effective? I suggest no, because it’s simply diverting the attention of the public, once again, to be seen to be doing something. At the end of the day, it is doing nothing and will do nothing.

What should be done? MPPs in this place should in fact be empowered to do the lobbying on behalf of their constituents, on behalf of their hospitals, on behalf of the services that are missing in the community. MPPs should be given the respect that they’re due by the ministers of the crown to respond to their questions, not just with another question or with another diversion, but to indicate that their appeals are being taken seriously and that action will be taken by the minister. Then we don’t need any outside lobbyists.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Phil McNeely: I’m pleased to respond to the member from Guelph and her comments on Bill 122. The bill is in response to the Auditor General’s report Consultant Use in Selected Health Organizations. It is important to note that this government has cut the cost of consultants from $656 million in 2001-02 to less than half—$304 million—in 2009-10. Information technology consultants like in projects like eHealth are probably the most frequent consultants used.

It’s difficult for hospitals, LHINs and the government to properly define the scope and estimate the time required, the cost and the deliverables for these complex IT projects. There is a history of overrun in dollars, time and meeting the deliverables.

Our government has addressed this by bringing in IT Source. IT Source is a modern, mobile workforce of OPS staff that can be deployed to IT projects across government. IT Source has a current complement of 167 personnel. In the public accounts committee, we discussed the importance of government having that capacity. That has moved ahead, and 167 personnel will grow to 275 full-time equivalents this year, replacing the consultants who previously did this work. Ministries will be able to obtain in-house the expertise in selecting, modifying and creating the IT systems they need.

In-house expertise will avoid the complex problems that have developed with large IT developments in federal, provincial and municipal governments. We have been moving ahead. We’ve already got 167 personnel in place to make sure these do not occur. I just compliment our government—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Thank you. The honourable member for Guelph has two minutes for her response.

Mrs. Liz Sandals: Thank you to the members from Welland, Peterborough, Newmarket–Aurora and Ottawa–Orléans for their remarks.

To the member from Welland: Yes, I do know what a Mack truck is. I actually, when I was in high school, had quite a close friend whose father was a senior executive at Mack trucks. So I am familiar with Mack trucks. You wanted to know; you got the answer.

I do want to remark on a couple of remarks. This business about politically connected Liberal consultants is absolute garbage. I went through that whole list of consultants that my local hospital has hired. I don’t have a clue who any of them are. I don’t know whether some of them might be Liberals or Conservatives; some of them might even be NDP, for all I know. I doubt the hospital even knows what their political connections are. They hired them because they had expertise in the area that I mentioned when I went through the list.

In terms of some of the lobbyists and this whole business of access to government, when we actually go back and check the files, it turns out that in fact, many of these lobbyists have long-standing contracts which began prior to 2003 when it was actually a Conservative government. So I suspect that many of those lobbyists are actually Conservative connections, if they have any connections.

The other thing I want to say is on this “MPPs need to be empowered.” My experience is that the public sector organizations in my riding come to me. They don’t have lobbyists. So my experience is that I am empowered to deal with the needs of my constituents.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: I’m pleased to join the debate on Bill 122,

An Act to increase the financial accountability of organizations in the broader public sector. I want to congratulate my colleague our critic for revenue and government accountability for the excellent job she has done in already stating some of the points that we wish to get on the record.

This was introduced on October 20 of this year. It basically is proposing that there would be the bringing in of new rules and higher accountability standards for hospitals, local health integration networks, or LHINs, and the broader public sector, BPS, around the use of lobbyists, consultants and expenses.

The legislation, supposedly, if passed, would expand the freedom-of-information legislation to cover hospitals effective January 1, 2012—I do find that very interesting because there’s no reason this couldn’t have become effective in 2011, before the election—and it also would require hospitals and LHINs to post expenses of senior executives online and require hospitals and LHINs to report annually on their use of consultants. And, of course, organizations funded by the government would no longer be able to use public funds to hire lobbyists.

I would say that this piece of legislation was introduced for a couple of reasons, and I don’t think they bear the same reasoning as the government pretends. I believe the government got caught. They got caught, first, on the eHealth fiasco, where we found out that $1 billion had been wasted, much of it on consultants who had been hired by this government and who had very strong affiliations to the government and party of the day.

I believe this bill is also in response to eHealth 2.0. Had the Liberals voted for the bill that we introduced on May 6, 2010—Bill 39, the Truth in Government Act—I think many of the problems that have been brought up now by the Auditor General would have already been on the way to being addressed, but the government chose not to.

I also agree with my colleague from Newmarket–Aurora. I think that this bill is another attempt to divert attention away from an issue—an issue where MPPs do not, if you are in opposition, have the ear of many of the cabinet ministers. Despite the fact that the Minister of Health was quoted as saying, “No CEO needs a lobbyist to get in contact with me or my office.... Our MPPs are more than willing to act as lobbyists. I urge the hospital to make use of the best lobbyists they have and that’s their MPPs,” I would say to you, that is definitely not the case.

In fact, my colleague from Wellington–Halton Hills discovered that when he tried—and he has been trying now for many, many years—to lobby on behalf of his hospitals in Fergus and in Georgetown. Regrettably, his pleas for assistance, his pleas for some information as to where these hospitals might stand in the 10-year plan or where they might stand in the queue appear to have, up until now, fallen on unresponsive ears. In other words, the ministers of the day—and there has been more than one—have simply not responded.

I know myself, oftentimes when you have an issue and you approach some ministers, people are not responsive. I heard the member from Guelph, who spoke just before me, say that she has great success. Well, maybe she has great success because she is a member of the governing party. But I would say to you, for most MPPs in opposition, we get little in the way of attention or respect. I would have to qualify that: I do believe there are certain ministers and people who were ministers and no longer are today in this government who actually are very responsive.

There is at least one in the House today that I think all of my colleagues would agree has been most responsive to the concerns, and that’s how it should be.

But for the Minister of Health to say that the MPPs should be the lobbyists, I can assure her that my colleague certainly has found his repeated requests, not even getting the approval, but getting information as to where his hospitals stand in the queue—he just hasn’t been able to obtain the information.

I know that other colleagues here—for example, we had an issue with Cambridge hospital. I would find out information about Cambridge—despite the fact that my colleague from Cambridge and I were actually very interested in what was going on there because it was part of the whole health services restructuring picture in the Waterloo region, we wouldn’t get any information from the LHINs until the government members had all of the information. We’re lucky to get a phone call for an announcement that’s going to be made at 9 o’clock in the morning. We might get an email the night before at 6 o’clock.

They always want to make sure that we’re not there, basically. They don’t have a lot of interest in us even being present at announcements.

That’s something that certainly concerns me, that the LHINs have become so politicized. These LHINs were supposedly set up in order to obtain input from our communities. They were supposed to be non-partisan. I can tell you that over the years, we in opposition are the last people that anybody wants to listen to and get advice from, and we certainly don’t get any information as to what it is they’re doing until the very last minute. We’re often not even acknowledged, yet the government members have had the information for a long time. If they contact us, they won’t tell us what it is they’re announcing.

How silly. Surely, as a representative in my community, I have the right to know what is going to happen in my community and the right to information. My regional chair has it, my mayors have it, but I’m not given it. I can’t believe it. That’s what’s happened with some of the LHINs throughout the province of Ontario. There’s certainly not a body that is non-partisan or involving all of the members of provincial Parliament, who have been, by the way, duly elected by the people in their riding to represent them. So if you wonder why people are critical of the LHINs, it’s because they have developed a bureaucracy and certainly are not responsive to the people that we represent.

This bill is basically, I think, an attempt to divert attention away from that issue, where MPPs no longer are the people who actually have any influence with the ministers. I think if you take a look at an

article here in the Toronto Star, they have said that “the access and influence of MPPs has steadily diminished and power has drifted into corner offices and the hands of a few unelected advisers.” So it’s not just MPPs who feel they’re not being listened to in opposition. The media also recognize that there is a problem and that that problem needs to be addressed.

If we take a look at the report that came out in October, the Special Report on Consultant Use in Selected Health Organizations, as I say, this bill is in part also a response to that report.

I was really disappointed to see the Minister of Health earlier this week, on October 26, delightfully taking the opportunity to attempt to divert attention away from the seriousness of the report, a reminder of the fact that there has been a lot of use of lobbyists during the term of this government since 2003, because she attempted to shift the blame.

I would say that the Auditor General, in his report, was referring primarily to the use of lobbyists and consultants since 2003. However, she took quite a bit of delight in saying, on that day, October 26:

“On page 30 he talks about a contract dating from 2002.... Again, the party in power was the Conservatives; the Minister of Health was the member from Kitchener–Waterloo.

“It’s hard to be humble, but you’re not perfect in every way. We all hold responsibility.”

Yes, we do hold responsibility, but I would say to the health minister—and I would hope she would rise in this House today at the first opportunity possible and acknowledge that she was wrong. I was not the Minister of Health at any time in 2002. I would hope it was a member of her staff who gave her incorrect information, and I would hope that she would set the record straight.

If I take a look at this report, we hear about a hospital that was awarded at least 15 contracts between 2007 and 2010. As of February 2010, total payments made to the firm amounted to over $650,000. Then we hear about another hospital engaging an engineering firm, on a single-source basis, to provide consulting at a cost of $165,000. We hear about another hospital that started engaging a consulting firm in 2002; it was completed in 2009, and approximately $3.7 million was paid. We hear another one about a hospital that single-sourced a contract; again, there were total payments of $259,000 since 2007.

If we turn the page, we see that we have an example that has been brought forward by the Auditor General of Ontario that says that a hospital engaged a consultant from February to April 2008, at a cost of $163,000. We see that another hospital single-sourced an information technology program to a consulting firm in January 2008. We see another one in June 2008 and August 2008—consultant fees. We have another hospital that single-sourced a contract to an engineering firm for $21,000 in early 2007, and the project was completed in 2009.

The examples are on page 25, page 26 and page 27. The time of most of these lobbyists and consultants it is between 2003 to the current time. Many of them, if I look at page 26—here’s one: “In April 2006, a hospital single-sourced the engagement of a consulting firm....” On page 27, we have the period of time a consultant was engaged, from 2007 to 2009; and at another hospital, 2007 to 2009. We have another hospital here: April 2007 to 2008. And we have another single-sourced contract: 2007 to 2009. Those are on pages 26 to 27.

On page 28, we have 2003 to 2009 for one hospital. We have a reference to a hospital in 2008 and another one in 2008. We turn to page 29 and we have a hospital in the fall of 2009. Another one single-sourced a contract for information technology, beginning in March 2009. On page 30, we have this reference in 2002 to the hospital single-sourced contract that went on until 2009. I think that’s where the minister was trying to somehow implicate me, but I’m sorry; I left the Ministry of Health in February 2001.

If we take a look at this, the examples continue on page 30. In 2006 a hospital and a lobbying firm signed a letter of proposal. We have in 2009 a hospital engaging a lobbying firm. We have another hospital that engaged a firm to lobby the government from 2005 to 2009.

So you know what? The reality is, the use of these consultants and the use of these lobbyists occurred, for the most part, during the life of this government, particularly in the more recent period of time, so for the minister to suggest otherwise is simply not accurate. Again, it is another attempt to divert attention away from this government and the use of consultants, and the use of Liberal-friendly consultants.

This bill obviously is a cover. It’s a cover to divert attention away from the use of lobbyists and consultants by this government, lobbyists who were, for the most part, affiliated and connected to the Liberal Party. It’s also intended to divert attention away from the fact that if you are an opposition MPP, it has become increasingly more difficult to lobby the government.

I just want to share a story with you, because I was the Minister of Health up until February 2001. When the Health Services Restructuring Commission went through the province of Ontario and made recommendations, there was an opportunity after the fact for communities to respond and say whether or not they agreed. I can tell you there was one particular situation that occurred up in Thunder Bay. The recommendation was to close five of the hospitals—and the government talks about us closing hospitals. Well, there were five. The recommendation by the commission was that two would remain open. So what happened?

Your own members, Michael Gravelle and Lyn McLeod, your former leader, lobbied me and said, “No, we want you to close them all”—all five. These are part of the five that you accuse us of closing. Your members wanted this. They said, “We want a new state-of-the-art medical centre in northwestern Ontario.” And I said, “Okay. If you can present your case, I will listen. If you can present your case, I will speak to Premier Harris. I will take your case to cabinet.”

Do you know what? Your two members lobbied. I listened. My Premier listened. My cabinet listened. And guess what? They got their new hospital. You can imagine their shock, because over and over again they said to me, both of them, “Elizabeth, we won’t get it because we’re Liberal ridings.” And I said, “You will get it. If this is in the best interest of the people in your community, you’ll get it.”

So, ladies and gentlemen, we have moved far in this House. Mr. Speaker, you know of what I speak because you also were a Minister of Health who was responsive to opposition demands for health services. But we have moved far away from that, to a point where now members of the opposition are rarely given any information or it’s rare for us to get a response to our requests for health services on behalf of our members.

This bill today, as I say, is really a diversion. It’s regrettable that the government hasn’t acknowledged that it needs to do a better job. As the minister has said, yes, MPPs should be the lobbyists, and let’s hope that in the future they do listen to the opposition.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Questions and comments?

M me France Gélinas: It was very interesting to listen to the member from Kitchener–Waterloo, who certainly knows a whole lot about this portfolio.

This bill was based on what happened at eHealth. What happened at eHealth, as she mentioned, shook up the foundation of our health care system. How could millions of health care dollars end up being squandered away to the pockets of wealthy consultants? This was unimaginable in Ontario. How could this happen? But it did happen. It was there for everybody to see, and the government reacted: fired the Minister of Health; let go the deputy minister; fired the head of eHealth; let go half of the board of eHealth. We were cleaning house. This was not acceptable; things were about to change.

Then came the new report, and we see exactly the same thing, just on a bigger scale. Nothing had changed. What had changed, as she explained, is that access to the ministers in this government is becoming harder and harder. If you are not already a friend of the person who happens to be a minister, you are shut out. You need to pay people who are their friends in order to be heard. This flies in the face of what a democracy is all about. We were elected to represent the people who elected us. Ministers are elected to represent the people of Ontario.

So when their elected representative comes to them and gets shut out—people need to communicate, so they line the pockets of well-connected friends of the Liberals so they can be heard.

The bill we have here, as my colleague said, has big holes in it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Michael A. Brown: My good friend from Kitchener–Waterloo—

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Yes, I am.

Mr. Michael A. Brown: I’m hoping the riding hadn’t changed names.

We’re here at this point in this debate and have this bill before us because the government opened up this sector to the Auditor General. Under former governments, nobody knew these things. That’s why we’re here, and it’s a good thing we’re here. We’ve now discovered, because of this government having the Auditor General go in, the abuse that you are talking about today. Before, you couldn’t know that.

You couldn’t know, for instance, that in early 1999, a hospital single-sourced a contract which has continued in operation since that time, with a firm developing, managing and providing ongoing IT technical services to the network. The total cost of this single-source consulting firm has been $60 million.

A hospital engaged a consulting firm to provide project management services for a hospital redevelopment that started in 2002 and was completed in 2009. Approximately $3.7 million was paid to this firm in two separate contracts.

Both contracts were single-source.

A hospital engaged a consultant since 1999 as a chief executive officer of a provincially funded initiative that administers many hospitals and health care providers. The hospital originally single-sourced the position to this consultant.

In 2002, a single-source contract valued at about $51,000 went to a lobbying firm for a six-month period—six months: $51,000 to this lobbyist.

What we are here talking about is a government that opened up this sector. We now know what happened. We’re fixing it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: I’d like to congratulate the member from Kitchener–Waterloo for, first of all, putting the truth to the fact that five hospitals in Thunder Bay were closed to build one state-of-the-art hospital. That same scenario happened in Sudbury. It happened in Port Hope, in Cobourg. It happened in Ottawa and it happened in Toronto as well. Hospitals were closed, yes, but state-of-the-art hospitals replaced them in those same communities.

Secondly, the member talked about the local health integration networks and how they have a lack of communication. I have the example in my riding where the new Oakville hospital site was dedicated; it was dedicated in my riding. She said she received notice at 6 o’clock the night before, to make it difficult for them to show up. Well, I didn’t receive any notice at all, not one notice. Liberal members from all the ridings around came to that site dedication, and I didn’t receive any notice at all. The LHINs certainly weren’t doing their job as far as local input was concerned in that case.

I will be on their doorstep the day that we take control of this province and do away with LHINs, and I will be shaking their hands, saying good-bye and hoping that they have luck in the future finding a job.

The other situation that happened—the press releases are full of the phrase “full, proactive disclosure,” and yet when I read the bill itself and go through it very carefully, I can find no definition of what “full, proactive disclosure” means. I remain to be convinced that this bill is anything but a diversion and anything but a sham.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Peter Kormos: I’m going to be speaking to this bill in around four minutes’ time, and I look forward to that. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to get all of my 20 minutes in today. That’s okay. I’ll start, and I’ll resume the balance of my comments the next time the government chooses to call this bill.

It’s remarkable that the government professes to be solving a problem when it was not government forces but in fact opposition forces, indeed New Democrats, who brought the committee to the point where the committee called upon the Auditor General. It’s also New Democrats who have been raising in this Legislature, for two or two and a half weeks now, not just hospitals, but municipalities, universities, colleges, all those MUSH sectors that have been spending huge bucks of taxpayers’ money—scarce, hard-earned taxpayers’ money—on lobbyists to access a government that is otherwise inaccessible.

The problem that the minister has is that she says we don’t need lobbyists, but the lobby industry says that if you don’t have lobbyists, government won’t be able to forge the important relationships that it has to have with municipalities, universities, schools and hospitals, among other things, including, I suppose, children’s aid societies, so somebody is not telling the truth. You understand what I’m saying? Because the minister says you don’t need lobbyists, and the very sophisticated lobby industry says it’s impossible to penetrate the huge barriers around government without high-priced lobbyists.

Somebody is not telling the truth, and I look forward to the committee hearings on this bill, because I suspect that the same lobbyists who have been criticizing the government for this bill will be coming forward in committee and explaining to the minister that she’s wrong; that, indeed, this government is inaccessible, unapproachable, aloof and arrogant.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments? The honourable member for Barrie.

Mrs. M. Aileen Carroll: No, no; the honourable member is just slipping out.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Are we done?

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): The honourable member for Kitchener–Waterloo has two minutes for her response.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: I want to thank the member for Halton, who I know has certainly worked very hard to lobby on behalf of his community for improved health care services, the member for Algoma–Manitoulin, the member for Nickel Belt and, of course, the member for Welland.

I also want to add that the two hospitals in my community of Kitchener–Waterloo both support this legislation—Grand River Hospital and certainly St. Mary’s hospital. I think, for the most part, the hospitals are happy to know that they hopefully will have access moving forward into the future. I don’t think most of them wanted to get to a place where they felt that this government could only be accessed by using lobbyists. We know that on occasion there is a need for consultants for special projects, and I think we have to acknowledge that as well.

However, if there’s one thing that comes out of this particular debate and the passage of this bill, I hope that we will, at the end of the day, have a government that is prepared to be more responsive to MPPs—all MPPs in this Legislature, not just the government MPPs.

As I said during my debate and my discussion, I think the bill here is certainly a response to the eHealth scandal and a billion dollars being spent, much of it on Liberal-connected lobbyists. It is a response to the second scandal as well, the eHealth 2.0. But it also, I think, is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that the government doesn’t listen to the people or MPPs.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Peter Kormos: As I say, I won’t be able to finish my comments this morning because I’ve only got around 11 minutes left and I’ve got 20 minutes in me. I’ve got more than 20 minutes. I could do a lot more than 20 minutes on this foul matter, but of course the rules restrict me.

Let’s understand what’s going on here. We’ve got a government that’s been in government for seven years: the Liberals. They’re tired; we can see it. The public’s tired of them; the polls tell us that. Seventy-six per cent of Ontarians say they want to see another party in power; 86% say that it’s harder now to make ends meet than it was two years ago. So it’s a tired government, in power for seven years.

The Auditor General confirms what New Democrats have been saying in question period now for several weeks. Andrea Horwath has been on her feet here in the Legislature, challenging the government and confronting them with information about lobbyists being hired by hospitals, universities and colleges, amongst others. Huge, huge amounts: This is a huge business. It’s an enormous business. It’s a billion-dollar business here in the province of Ontario, across the country, across North America.

The lobbyist industry is an integral part of fundraising for political parties, especially political parties in power. But the amazing thing is, you’ve got government backbenchers—and I understand why they might be quizzical about the whole matter, because they’re not in the loop. But you’ve got a minister who feigns shock and awe and horror at the revelations of the Auditor General. “My goodness,” she says. “How could this be? Lobbyists? On the public dollar? My goodness. I’m shocked,” she says. “I’m horrified,” she says. “I’m distressed,” she says. She’s like the piano player in the brothel who wants to pretend that he doesn’t know what’s going on upstairs.

So here we are. We’ve got a minister who’s in denial. Who have these lobbyists been talking to? They’ve been talking to ministers and Premiers and senior staffers. For Pete’s sake, when John Matheson from StrategyCorp—I don’t know whether he was ever one of them, but when he came knocking on her door or took her out and wined and dined her—whether he did or not, at least somebody did—who did she think these people were? Just people wandering in off the street with big American Express platinum credit cards? Did she think they were people who were wandering and weren’t sure where they were? They were looking for directions, help? Maybe call CAA for them?

For Pete’s sake, lobbyists have been talking to the minister. Lobbyists wine and dine; they schmooze. And they organize fundraisers. Meet the Minister of Health at $300 or $400 a pop. Meet the Minister of Infrastructure at $300 or $400 a pop. I find it amazing. I find it truly amazing.

I was on the train to Toronto the other day from St. Catharines. I was over here, and a guy—he was one of these guys with the cellphone and the laptop, a little bit of a blowhard; he was talking far too loud. He wanted to make sure people heard him, because it was the weekend of the Liberal confab a couple of weeks ago, the mudslinging seminar. This guy was talking to one of his colleagues: “Yup, yup. Yeah, I went to the” whatever “and I met the Premier and a couple of cabinet ministers.” And I’m thinking, “You poor, dumb sucker.

You probably paid big bucks for that, and the cabinet ministers that you met had no idea who you were, couldn’t recall you if their lives depended on it. You got fished; you got suckered; you got snookered; you got taken; darn it, you got Ponzied. You’ve been had.

How the lobby firms promote themselves is they highlight the people in those firms who have the political connections. Being the former chief of staff is pretty potent stuff for institutions out there that want to have access to government—being a former cabinet minister. The impression—wink, wink, nudge, nudge—is, “I can introduce you to my former colleagues, I can make things happen, I can grease the wheels,” and from time to time they do.

It seems that there’s almost a nasty sort of quid pro quo here, because the impression the public has out there is that if you don’t hire the right lobbyist—wink, wink, nudge, nudge—in this instance, with the Liberal connections, your interests aren’t going to be furthered very well. So what has the lobbyist industry become in many respects? It’s become a pasture for political warhorses who are sent out to pasture; something of a sinecure, I suppose. You’ve done your political service; it’s finally time to make the big bucks.

Indeed, there will be people in this Legislature, when they’re defeated in October, who will market themselves as potential lobbyists, who’ll say they’ve got not just the know-how, but that they’re in the know.

My problem, once again, and the government’s problem, really, is that the lobby industry appears to be very, very outspoken with respect to how important they are in government relations.

The real failure of this bill is that the bill only applies to what I believe the Lobbyists Registration Act calls consultant lobbyists, lobbyists who are on retainer, lobbyists who you’ll hire for a specific term—contract lobbyists as compared to in-house lobbyists.

What would be the effect of this legislation? The effect will be that the lobby industry will undoubtedly effectively persuade universities, schools, hospitals, municipalities to hire in-house lobbyists because the bill doesn’t apply to them. The bill doesn’t apply at all to lobbyists who are part of the corporate or bureaucratic or institutional structure of a particular public body that uses public funds.

The legislation is also very clear that it restricts utilizing public monies. The people of Ontario may say, “When I donate money to a hospital, that’s public money, or when a hospital makes money with the charges for parking, that’s public money.” No. That’s not the money that this bill applies to. A hospital can then use contributions from the public—and all hospitals do big fundraising because, of course, they’re underfunded—to hire lobbyists.

So this isn’t even cosmetic. The blemish is still going to stick out like a raw pimple here on the face of a tired, old government—because the government is being less than forthcoming. I didn’t say less than truthful; I know it’s unparliamentary. I can’t always say the things here that I want to, so I don’t. If I said the government was being untruthful, I’d have to withdraw—and I withdraw that.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): I remind the honourable member that you can’t say indirectly what you can’t say directly, so I just ask you to be careful, please.

Mr. Peter Kormos: Which is why when I said the government was untruthful, I withdrew it right away, as I’m withdrawing it now. I’m good enough with the withdrawals here. I’ve done more than a few of them in my time, and from time to time I appreciate the Speaker helping me, but usually I’m on top of it. When I’ve said something unparliamentary, I usually know it, and that’s why I’m speedy to withdraw it.

I say the government is not forthcoming. The government is not telling all that it’s got to tell. The government is concealing a big chunk of the facts.

Mr. Robert Bailey: Not fulsome?

Mr. Peter Kormos: That was unparliamentary, Mr. Bailey. That was unparliamentary.

The government is letting the public toy with the impression that the government is actually responding to what it, the government, sees is a problem, and what it, the government, isn’t responding to at all, because the government doesn’t perceive it as a problem.

This government and the lobby industry work hand in hand, hand in glove. They’re tight, they’re intimate, they know each other well, they know each other so well. I’m oh, so looking forward, although it’s a fait accompli now and it’s oh, so very moot to concern oneself with George Smitherman’s list of contributors—you understand that Joe Pantalone, the NDP candidate in the mayoralty campaign, who I am very proud of, released his list of contributors a week before the election date, October 25; so a week before that.

Rob Ford, the successor to David Miller, the mayor-elect, the successful contender, released his contribution list in the days before the actual election. But George Smitherman just wouldn’t. He just couldn’t bring himself to do it. One wonders why he wouldn’t want to be candid in the context of the two other contenders being so open about who was bankrolling their campaigns. I don’t know.

Part of me really, really, really—I really, really wish we had that contribution list because I suspect it would lend credence to the argument that the opposition parties are making here. Please, if I’m wrong, I’ll be the first person to admit it, but I suspect that we’ll find all sorts of familiar characters on George Smitherman’s list of contributors. I suspect—and this, of course, explains why he would not want to reveal these—there will be people from the eHealth industry. I suspect there could be people with familiar Korean surnames, Samsung types. I suspect there will be more than a few lobbyists, because lobbyists saw the potential for grease at city hall—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Thank you.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): It being 10:15 of the clock, this House stands in recess until 10:30, at which time we will have question period.

The House recessed from 1018 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Robert Bailey: I’d like to introduce, in the west members’ gallery, Les and Marilyn Armstrong from the village of Plympton–Wyoming in the great riding of Sarnia–Lambton.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: I’d like to introduce the parents of page Haadiyah Khan—her father, Shakeel Khan, and her mom, Halima—and her sister, Muneerah, visiting today in the Legislature.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Today the members of the Ontario Dental Association are hosting a reception here at Queen’s Park for members. I’d like to welcome Dr. Kerr Banduk from my riding and invite all members to attend at 6 o’clock.

Mr. Charles Sousa: I’d like to introduce the parents of our page, Kimberly Ren from Mississauga South. Her mother, Lily Liu, and her father, Wayne Ren, are here today. They’ve come to watch Kimberly lead in today’s procession.

I’d like to also acknowledge the grandparents of another page, Eric O’Brien. Grandparents Bill Hamilton and Margaret Hamilton are here, as well as his aunt, Lori Armour, visiting us today.

Hon. John Wilkinson: I’d like to introduce to the House Pam Wieland and Charlie Peatman from 3M Canada. They’re here today to receive a tour of our Legislature. Welcome.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: I am honoured to welcome to the House today the family of page Eric O’Brien from the great riding of Oxford and the city of Woodstock. They were previously introduced, but I want to introduce his grandparents, Margaret and Bill Hamilton, and his aunt and uncle, Lori and Tim Armour. I welcome them to Queen’s Park and say that Eric is doing a wonderful job as a page.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I’m pleased to introduce to you today in the House OPP Constable Dawn Martin and her daughter Nicole. Dawn is the police coordinator for Crime Stoppers of Simcoe-Dufferin-Muskoka. They’re over here in the crowd.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Further introductions?

I’d like to take this opportunity, on behalf of the member from Carleton–Mississippi Mills and page Carina Hochgeschurz, to welcome her mother, Colleen, and her grandmother Hiede Hochgeschurz to the Legislature today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

We have with us in the Speaker’s gallery a parliamentary delegation from the National Assembly of Pakistan led by Khurram Dastgir Khan. Please join me in welcoming our guests to the Legislature. Welcome all of you to Queen’s Park today.

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Acting Premier concerning Premier McGuinty’s refusal to hold his cabinet ministers to account.

After 48 hours, it’s clear that we will not be given the unqualified apology we have asked for from the Premier and his Minister of Research and Innovation. Premier McGuinty, by his refusal to act, basically indicates that he is either unconcerned or condones the new innuendoes and baseless smears the minister made in his non-apology apology. In fact, the Premier seems so unconcerned about it, apparently he has not even contacted the minister directly to talk about this affair.

Acting Premier, I understand that Premier McGuinty has a lot invested in Minister Murray. He elevated him over the heads of many long-serving Liberal members. Is that why the Premier refuses to hold this minister to account?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: As the Premier indicated yesterday, the minister apologized to the people in question and to the opposition. The Premier found that to be the appropriate apology. I will just simply reiterate that the Premier’s point of view is from that perspective. We believe the apology was appropriate, complete, and the matter is behind us.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Well, quite frankly, Acting Premier, I suspect that you know in your heart, we know and the general public knows that the minister has yet to make a clear and unconditional apology. People would like to see an apology without all the ifs, ands and buts.

The problem here is that this is a broader pattern of the Premier refusing to hold his ministers to account. The Premier claims that he is going to take the high road, but his cabinet ministers or campaign team attack his critics while the Premier looks away.

We need to look no further than the nasty whisper campaign against Ontario’s Ombudsman this spring, where the Premier’s top campaign strategist accused the Ombudsman of equally deplorable things. After weeks of letting this go on, all the Premier had to say was that the debate was getting “a little out of hand.” He never sent a strong signal that this was wrong, and he held no one to account. Isn’t that the reason this keeps happening, because the Premier refuses to hold his ministers to—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Acting Premier?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Well, in fact, I was just reflecting on when Tory cabinet ministers spent $1,600 on bar tabs and expensed it. I was reflecting last night on when that party and their government tried to take funding away from the Provincial Auditor after he had been particularly critical of that government.

The Premier of Ontario has laid out a plan to get Ontario’s economy back on track, to create jobs, to make our economy more competitive, more prosperous. We have a lot of work to do on that. The Premier and his ministers and members of provincial Parliament are committed to creating jobs and building a stronger economy for a better future for all Ontarians.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: I can understand why the Acting Premier is uncomfortable with answering these basic questions, but clearly a pattern has emerged where the Premier claims to take the high road but rewards those who do his attacks.

As you know, Acting Premier, members of your cabinet and senior campaign team are closely involved with the Working Families Coalition, an American-style election campaign group that has spent some $7 million on attack ads on PC candidates. After the election, we saw Premier McGuinty reward Patrick Dillon with plum appointments to the WSIB, Infrastructure Ontario, the College of Trades, and also send millions of dollars to his senior campaign adviser and pollster for Working Families, Don Guy. I expect that Ontario families will see more of these types of attacks in the time ahead.

I ask the Acting Premier, why has the Premier established this pattern of condoning and rewarding this type of work?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The Premier of Ontario has established a record of accountability and transparency that was sadly absent. It was sadly absent when Michael Gourley got more than $3 million in contracts. We brought that openness and transparency to Hydro One, and because of the openness and transparency, we also know that his adviser Mark Spiro led the fight to protect big pharmacy, against the interests of average Ontarians. We also know that Tory lobbyists associated with the member opposite have been very active in lobbying, and so we’re about transparency and accountability.

That’s why we undid many of the things they did, like specifically exempting Hydro One and OPG. We’ll continue to build on that record of transparency, and at the same time, build a stronger economy and more jobs for all—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

PREMIER’S RECORD

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Acting Premier: The problem is that the McGuinty government only makes a commitment to transparency after they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar over and over again. We’ve had three consecutive scandals: the lottery and gaming corporation, and back-to-back scandals like eHealth and eHealth 2.0, where dollars were from taken patient care to reward Liberal insiders.

And it’s no wonder that the Minister of Research and Innovation gives out a non-apology apology, because he’s learning from the Premier himself. In his video confession over eHealth, Premier McGuinty said he was sorry. He said he would not have this happen again. But less than one year later, we saw hundreds of millions of health care dollars go to well-connected insiders and bloated consultant contracts through eHealth 2.0. If the Premier won’t hold himself accountable for his own apologies, why should we expect him to hold his minister to account?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Building a strong economy in these times involves difficult choices. This government has made choices. We have chosen to invest in health care and education. We have chosen to work to create more jobs for all Ontarians. This government is going to continue on that path.

Governments of all stripes make difficult decisions and sometimes don’t get them right. And when you don’t get them right, I think it’s appropriate to start and work even harder still to correct them. The Premier of Ontario has a record of openness and transparency, of investing in health care and education and building a cleaner environment for our children. That’s a record we’re proud of. That’s a record we’ll take to the people of Ontario. That’s a record we’ll stack up against that member and his party any day of the week.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Well, the McGuinty government has made choices, all right. Instead of helping families who have children waiting for life-saving pharmaceutical products, instead of helping families who need to get a loved one into a long-term-care home, you chose to give out hundreds of millions of dollars to Liberal-friendly consultants and insiders, and that’s why Ontario families are looking for a change from the tired, out-of-ideas McGuinty government.

The Premier has made similar non-apology apologies, always filled with ifs, ands and buts. When he spoke about Sarah Kramer, the Premier said, “It is obvious that we made a mistake,” but he relied on the advice of Alan Hudson. After the McGuinty Liberals passed the secret G20 law, he said, “It was a major mistake not to have publicized the change in the law,” but he denied any wrongdoing.

Acting Premier, why do you think these kinds of boondoggles are ever going to stop when Premier McGuinty refuses to hold anyone accountable?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Yes, choices have been made. When given a choice, that member and his party closed 29 hospitals. When given a choice to invest in health care and to build a stronger health care system, they chose to compare nurses to hula hoop workers. They chose not to invest; they chose not to do things that are important for a strong economic future. When given a choice between keeping kids in school and fighting teachers, they cost kids more than 10 million days of education and learning time in this province.

Yes, sir, this is all about choices. This is a government that will choose the people of Ontario through strong policies designed to create jobs, build a better education system, a better health care system and a cleaner environment. That’s what the choices are about. The people of Ontario will have a clear choice, and they will reject you and all you stand for—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Order. Members from Simcoe North and Oxford.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: The pattern of the Premier’s non-apology apologies extends to families in Caledonia. While the Premier says he’s sorry, he has refused to hold to account the lawbreakers and what they’ve done to Caledonia families, including intimidation, home invasions and violence—these things all detailed in Christie Blatchford’s new book, expressing very clearly the failure of the McGuinty government to govern and to protect its citizens equally.

It is an extraordinary failure of leadership. No wonder the Minister of Innovation refuses to apologize, because Dalton McGuinty does not keep his word when he—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): First, withdraw the comment. Secondly, I remind the honourable member that he should not be using first names.

Mr. Tim Hudak: I withdraw the comment.

If Premier McGuinty does not keep his promises, how can we expect the minister to be held to account?

I ask the Acting Premier: Why is Premier McGuinty making Caledonia families who work hard and play by the rules fend for themselves instead of holding lawbreakers accountable?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The government of Ontario has worked hard with our First Nations communities across Ontario, and all communities, to build a better future for all Ontarians. It’s an inclusive future that speaks to the best values of Ontarians. It’s a future that speaks to resolving issues without violence, without the use of police. It’s a future that speaks to job creation in our northern communities, where far too many aboriginal children go to bed hungry.

When that member and his party were given the choice, we know what happened there. We know what the inquiry said. When given those choices, that party made the wrong choices. It chose expediency over peace. It chose bad decisions over good decisions.

We will continue to build a stronger future for all Ontarians, the residents of Caledonia and our First Nations, but at the same time showing peace—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock for a second.

New question.

CONSULTANTS

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question’s to the Acting Premier. Why don’t Ontario families have the right to know whether their local hospitals and LHINs were squandering millions of health care dollars on insider lobbyists and consultants?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: To the Minister of Health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: This is a government that expanded the authority of the Auditor General to look at hospitals. Prior to our action, the Auditor General simply did not have that authority. We expanded the power, and then we specifically asked the Auditor General to go in and look at hospitals, to look at LHINs, to look at our ministry and examine the use of consultants, including lobbyists.

The Auditor General did a thorough report. He reported back, and what he found was simply not acceptable. That’s why we’ve taken the action we have by introducing legislation that addresses all of the issues and recommendations raised by the Auditor General.

As the member opposite knows, the Auditor General does not identify the lobbyists and does not identify the consultants. In fact, he does not attach the findings to the individual hospitals and LHINs—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Every single one of the 19 hospitals and LHINs investigated by the Auditor General had big problems with consultants and lobbyists winning big at the expense of front-line care. There’s a good reason, therefore, to believe that the exact same problems—similar problems—exist in the rest of Ontario’s hospitals and LHINs. So why doesn’t the McGuinty government call in the Auditor General to make sure we stop diverting precious health care dollars from front-line care once and for all?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The member opposite makes my case for why we need to take action with legislation. What I hope I’m hearing is that she and her party will in fact support the legislation that we’ve introduced. The leader of the third party is absolutely right: The Auditor General did not give a clean bill of health to any of the organizations he looked at. Every single LHIN, every single hospital that the auditor examined had problems. That’s good enough for me. I know the problems are throughout the system. That’s why we’re introducing legislation.

If the Auditor General chooses to continue to look at this issue, he is free to do that. We do not instruct the Auditor General. He is free to do whatever he wants to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: One hospital paid a lobbyist $275,000 over the last four years. That’s the equivalent of two hours of home care a day for 350 people in Hamilton and London. New Democrats think that the government should ask the Auditor General to investigate all hospitals and LHINs. Why is the McGuinty government refusing to do so?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: When it comes to accountability, the NDP cannot have it both ways. They cannot on one hand call for more investigation and on the other hand call the legislation we’ve introduced worthless. They cannot have it both ways.

The people of this province expect us to solve the problems when we become aware of the problems. We are abundantly aware of the problems because the Auditor General has described them very clearly. Our job is to fix the problems and that’s what we’re doing. I do hope that both parties opposite will in fact support us on this.

CONSULTANTS

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also to the Acting Premier. In another sole-source contract, another sole-source deal, one consulting company received $180,000 for every consultant it employed. It’s clear that well-connected insiders lined their pockets while emergency rooms closed and hallway medicine became the norm in Ontario in many communities.

Why is the McGuinty government continuing to protect the identity of all of these consultants?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: To the Minister of Health.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think it’s incumbent upon all of us in this Legislature to accurately represent the opinion of officers of this House, the Auditor General being one. The Auditor General was asked specifically if he found evidence of favouritism for political insiders. His answer was very clear: He did not find that. The party opposite may wish to create the fiction, but they are not reflecting the opinion of the Auditor General. When it comes to this issue, I will take the word of the Auditor General over the insinuations of the opposition any day of the week.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Auditor General found that one consultant earned $1,100 per day without even having a contract and that the same consultant went nearly $60,000 over budget.

Instead of protecting the consultants who lined their pockets on the public health care dime, why won’t the McGuinty government simply release their names?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: This is very important legislation that we have introduced to respond to the findings of the Auditor General. I have to tell you that others are supportive of this legislation. Let me quote Dr. Ann Cavoukian, Ontario’s Information and Privacy Commissioner.

Here’s what the Information and Privacy Commissioner has to say about our legislation: The introduction of legislation to bring hospitals under Ontario’s freedom-of-information legislation is “a major step forward for openness and transparency, leading to greater accountability.” These are the words from the Information and Privacy Commissioner. She also praised the government for bringing forward the new rules under the proposed Broader Public Sector Accountability Act and ushering in an era of greater openness and transparency for the citizens of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Public dollars that should have been invested in hiring nurses and providing home care services and long-term care were instead blown on high-priced insider lobbyists and consultants, all under this government’s watch. The McGuinty government can now side with the families who have seen front-line care suffer or they can side with well-connected consultants and lobbyists who got rich at the expense of our health care system. Who is this government going to side with?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: We are very clearly on the side of the people of this province. We are on the side of the taxpayers of this province and we are on the side of the patients of this province.

The issues that were raised by the Auditor General are simply unacceptable, are terribly disappointing, and require decisive action. That is why we introduced legislation the very same day that the auditor came out with his report. We are taking action because we want better health care. We want every dollar possible going to front-line health care.

We have some work ahead of us. The hospitals are supportive of this approach. They, too, understand that we need to do better when it comes to transparency and accountability. I look forward to a time in this House when the members opposite are going to be complaining about what has been exposed through that freedom-of-information legislation. But what it means is, we’re getting better, we’re getting stronger and we’re—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is for the Minister of Research and Innovation. If the minister is truly sorry for the defamatory messages he posted on Twitter, then why hasn’t he taken them down?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I believe they are down. If they are not, I will check. I appreciate the question.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: We appreciate that, so we’re halfway there. Now I would just simply ask that the minister issue an unequivocal apology with respect to this matter.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Sometimes we do things that are regrettable. I have apologized over the last two days in every way I can imagine, unqualified. I was asked the question several times; I gave unqualified apologies yesterday. I regret my remarks. I’m not sure how many other ways I can apologize.

AIR-RAIL LINK

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Acting Premier. We’re joined today by Mr. Pietro Valeriani, who is in the west members’ gallery. Mr. Valeriani and at least half a dozen of his neighbours in the village of Weston in northwest Toronto came home earlier this week to find a letter from Metrolinx. The letter says that their homes need to be acquired to accommodate the air link from downtown Toronto to the airport. At no point over the last five years were Mr. Valeriani and his neighbours told that they would be losing their homes. In fact, they were told the exact opposite. How could their government blindside them this way?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: To the Minister of Transportation.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I thank the leader of the third party for the question. As she knows, the air-rail link, the work that’s being done on the Georgetown south corridor, will increase service for GO passengers, will allow for the air-rail link to be completed. The tunnel that is being built—and I understand that there’s a meeting tonight to talk about it—is very much part of what the community has wanted and has asked for.

I know the member for York South–Weston has worked very closely with the community. She has been reaching out to the community. But the issue here is that GO has been reaching out to the residents in this community. Since the summer, GO has been involved in extensive community consultation to ensure that community members know exactly what the construction processes are and the go-forward and that they know they have options in terms of their properties and the disruption—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: These are not just houses; they are homes. Mr. Valeriani has lived there for 20 years. It’s where he cared for his wife when she passed away. He’s 64 years old and he doesn’t want to be forced out of his home. He’s now dealing with incredible stress, incredible emotional turmoil, because of this letter that was so unceremoniously delivered to his front door.

Will the McGuinty government immediately order Metrolinx to look at all options other than, besides, expropriation?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Metrolinx is in the process this morning of getting in touch with the families who have been confused by this letter that has been sent. As I say, there have been multiple outreaches—I’m not going to talk about a specific case—over the summer and over the previous weeks, but Metrolinx is once again reaching out to the specific families involved. There are options that families have in the broadest sense.

What I will say is that if the way the letter was written was not clear enough in terms of laying out options, we take responsibility for that. We will make sure that, going forward, it is much clearer what the options are. Families do have options as this project goes forward. We will continue to make sure that Metrolinx does the outreach that’s necessary because, of course, people don’t want to have surprises. They want to know what their options are, and I take full responsibility for making sure that they know what those options are.

HEALTH CARE

Mr. Charles Sousa: My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Providing quality health care and health care options for the people of Ontario is of utmost importance to all of us in government. We’ve seen extensive investment throughout the health care system that has allowed significant improvements in wait times, access to care, alternative care options and hospital infrastructure. It wasn’t too long ago when we saw what cuts to health care meant for families across Ontario and the difference it can make when a government invests in front-line care to support better health care outcomes.

I have recently been told that this government has met their target of attaching one million patients to a doctor. Could the minister please tell the House more about this important milestone?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The member from Mississauga South is absolutely correct. In 2003, we inherited a devastating shortage of family physicians in this province. We promised to attach 500,000 Ontarians to a family doctor, and we kept that promise. In 2007, we made a promise to 500,000 more Ontarians that we would attach them to primary care, and we have kept that promise a year ahead of schedule. Promises made, promises kept.

A million patients is quite the feat: It’s some 500 Air Canada Centres. It’s more than the population of the city of Ottawa. It’s 16 people every hour, every day of the week, 24 hours a day, since we were elected. We did it by giving patients more options. That’s why we’ve got 151 family health teams up and running; we’ve got 49 more on the way. We’re adding 25 nurse practitioner—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Charles Sousa: Thank you, Minister, for sharing this news. I know that Ontarians are pleased to see that the government has made tremendous strides in improveing health care for families across the province.

Access to care has always been a concern for my constituents. We all know how important it is to avoid an emergency room for simple health issues. However, ensuring that Ontarians can access different health care options is vital to ensure that we aren’t bogged down in our emergency rooms with minor illnesses.

While this government has made tremendous strides in providing access, more can always be done. Could the minister please tell this House what is being done to ensure access to health care options?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: It’s true that too often Ontarians turn to their emergency department when they don’t have a family doctor. That’s why this government has created a variety of different options to provide Ontarians with the care they need in a timely manner. One of those initiatives is the greatest-ever expansion of community health centres. We’re adding 49 new community health centres and satellites. Through our Health Care Connect initiative, that care can be found through the Ministry of Health website or by telephone. We can find you a family doctor or a nurse practitioner, no matter where in this province you are living.

We’ve also got HealthForceOntario working, helping to recruit doctors from around the world to come practise in Ontario. In fact, through the great work of HealthForceOntario, we have reversed the brain drain. We now have more doctors moving from the United States to—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

MEMBER’S CONDUCT

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: My question is for the Minister of Research and Innovation. Last Saturday, you attacked my leader and my party. A look back into your history shows that you have a pattern of sending attack messages via Twitter.

In the middle of the G20, when our men and women in uniform were working hard to keep our city safe, you used Twitter to call them “bashers.” Why were you attacking our men and women in uniform?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I will go back and check in detail. I certainly don’t believe that.

My partner served in the Canadian Armed Forces for a great chunk of his life. I’ve done lots of work with the Armed Forces. I can’t tell you how personal a commitment and support I’ve had.

If the gentleman had actually looked back through my history—he should spend some time with my friends at the Princess Patricia’s light infantry in Winnipeg and look at the care and support and the kind of commitment I had for that particular regiment, of which I’m tremendously proud.

I’m very proud of my partner, who is gay, and the duress—and the things he fought for in the service of this country.

I hold the Canadian Armed Forces in the highest regard.

People in my community have had to put up with a lot more discrimination in order to serve in the same way that so many other people did.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I just want to remind the member—I just checked the question, and I trust his supplementary is going to be tied in to his role as a minister. The question that you just asked—and I had to confirm—he was not a minister at the time that your question referred to.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Okay. In the middle of the G20, you directed another statement to the Toronto police via Twitter. In the statement, you asked them: “Why did you”—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I just would say to the member that the question you are asking right now does not concern the conduct of the member at the time. He was not a minister at the time.

I’m going to ask that you phrase your question to either the current situation—it has to be under the current situation. You can’t talk about something that was when he was not the minister.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Okay. Then I’d like to know from the minister if he understands the seriousness of what happened at the G20, and that the problem was that the McGuinty cabinet passed a secret law allowing that to happen, allowing the secrecy. Yet at the same time, he puts it on his Twitter.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’m going to pass. New question.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My question is to the Acting Premier. Yesterday at subcommittee, the McGuinty government killed my inclusionary zoning bill.

Is the McGuinty government really opposed to inclusionary zoning, even though they passed it in this House twice and municipalities across Ontario, including Hazel herself, demand it?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We’re very supportive of inclusionary housing. It was your bill and your amendment we were opposed to. We didn’t think it achieved what we wanted it to.

We want to make sure we get it right. While we welcome your input—it’s very helpful input, I might add—we felt that your amendments and proposals were flawed.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My amendment simply called for a change to the Planning Act to allow for inclusionary zoning. It couldn’t have been milder.

Vancouver; San Francisco; Atlanta; London, UK; and numerous other jurisdictions have implemented inclusionary zoning—15,000 units in Washington, DC, since 2003; 9,000 in San Francisco; in Boston, 1,000 new affordable units in one year alone, and over $20 million in fees collected through the years 2000 to 2007.

Inclusionary zoning costs the government nothing and would create desperately needed affordable homes. Why is the McGuinty government opposing inclusionary zoning?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: No, she said it herself: Her amendment was weak, and we didn’t think it was done properly. It was obviously more designed to get a bit of media attention as opposed to dealing with the real issues around inclusionary housing.

Let me just remind the people of Ontario—I heard the numbers from other communities—that we have now created some 76,500 units of affordable housing. In March 2009, we invested $1.2 billion to renovate 94,000 social housing units, build 4,500 new units and, most importantly, create 23,000 jobs. That member and her party voted against it.

I was glad to hear her say that her amendment was very weak. It was.

We take these matters seriously. We want to have provisions for inclusionary housing. We’re going to do it right and reject the simple, media-attention-grabbing, weak amendments that member put forward.

FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN

Mr. Bob Delaney: This question is for the Minister of Education. For months, the opposition has made it clear that they do not support full-day kindergarten. They voted against Bill 242 and have called full-day kindergarten “a frill.”

Yet I’ve spoken with many constituents out in western Mississauga who have heard about our government’s and our province’s strong commitment to early learners. They want to understand how this investment in this challenging economic time is good for our province.

Minister, would you please explain the impact of full-day kindergarten in light of the criticisms levelled against it?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: I’m very happy to have the opportunity to remind the people of Ontario that investing in our earliest learners is one of the very best things we can do to improve student success and student outcomes in the province of Ontario. We know that. Families know that. Parents have told us that they want this program.

In addition to that, in addition to building for future student success, we are also enabling another type of educator to play a very important role with kindergarten teachers, and they would be early childhood educators. What I can say is that when our program is fully implemented, we will have 20,000 early childhood educators and 3,800 more teachers working with our youngest learners. That is an investment that we know is going to enable our—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Bob Delaney: The principal point that people in western Mississauga have asked me is that they like the program; they’d like to see more of it. With more students expected to enter full-day kindergarten, I expect we’re going to need more staff to support these students. I know that there is one teacher and one early childhood educator assigned to each classroom for full-day kindergarten.

Would the minister tell us how the province is getting ready for this influx of students and what steps Ontario is taking to ensure that our students have the proper support?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: To the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Hon. John Milloy: As the honourable colleague outlined in his question, under full-day kindergarten we have a registered early childhood educator who works alongside the certified teacher to provide two qualified educators in each full-day kindergarten classroom. ECEs are also responsible for the integrated before- and after-school programs that are offered as part of the overall program.

I’m pleased to report to the Legislature that there are currently over 27,000 ECEs registered in Ontario. In addition, there are 5,829 students currently enrolled in early childhood education programs in Ontario, and nearly 700 people have returned to school to pursue careers as early childhood educators through the Second Career program over the past two years.

In fact, the Minister of Education and myself, very recently, visited a class of early childhood educators and were able to congratulate, at first hand, workers who had been laid off—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

PROTECTION FOR PEOPLE

WITH DISABILITIES

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. Minister, this afternoon we will be debating my private member’s bill, Bill 83. The Respect Our Homes Coalition, along with People First of Ontario and Community Living Ontario, held a news conference this morning explaining why this was such an important issue for families and organizations supporting people with an intellectual disability.

Minister, will you support the safety, dignity and respect of individuals who do not want their homes picketed during times of labour unrest?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: First of all, let me welcome into the House people from Community Living and the parents of those that we serve in Ontario.

My ministry’s primary concern continues to be the health and safety of individuals in developmental services’ residential accommodations. We have invested over $500 million in new, ongoing funding for developmental services. That is a 51% increase since 2003. Over $240 million of this went to creating and increasing services, as well as enhancing wages and salaries.

Since taking office, we have committed over $175 million in funding to help adults with developmental disabilities live in communities, creating services and supports for more than 27—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Sylvia Jones: I think there’s a bit of a time warp between here and there. I asked you very specifically if you were going to be supporting Bill 83.

People from Quinte West, Kawartha Lakes, Walkerton, Chatham-Kent, London, Campbellford, Brighton, Prince Edward county, St. Catharines and Brampton are all coming to Queen’s Park this afternoon to listen our debate and are looking for leadership from you on this issue. They’ve worked hard to break down barriers and create inclusive communities.

Minister, will you support Bill 83, the Protecting Vulnerable People Against Picketing Act?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I will remind the member of the Tory party that her and her party voted against every investment that this government proposed for developmental services.

I will say to her that, on this side of the House, we respect very much the workers of Community Living. They get up every morning—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Order.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: It’s about human rights.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The honourable member knows the rules. She can call a late show if she doesn’t like the answer.

Minister?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: People on this side of the House respect the workers of Community Living. They get up in the morning and do a very good job for the most vulnerable that we serve.

This government here is not afraid of unions; we work very closely with the unions, contrary to those on the other side of the House.

I congratulate and thank every worker from Community Living today, and I wish that we will continue—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE

Mr. Howard Hampton: My question is for the Minister of Health. The chief and council of Eabametoong First Nation have declared a state of emergency in the community of Fort Hope. Since January of this year, there have been three murders, 61 assaults, 47 arsons and 73 drug-related incidents. I quote from the chief and council’s emergency resolution:

“Whereas: the community and the people are at ... risk from the current prescription drug abuse epidemic....”

And: “Whereas: the threat posed by prescription drug abuse epidemic and community violence” requires “immediate intervention and direct measures....”

Can the Minister of Health tell us what the McGuinty government is doing to respond to this very clear state of emergency?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: To the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

Hon. Christopher Bentley: On Friday night, I spoke with Chief Nate, and on Saturday evening, I was in Eabametoong. I spoke with Chief Nate, met with the council and met with the acting chief of the NAPS police service. I spoke to the chief and council about their seven-point proposal.

It’s a very difficult time, and what I committed to is that I would immediately contact my colleague ministers and ministries, including the Minister of Health and the Minister of Children and Youth Services—I had already been in contact with my colleague the Minister of Community Safety—and that we would work with the federal government, which I understood was trying to get in yesterday and wasn’t able to because of the weather, and the chief and council on how we can support the council in moving forward on their seven-point plan and a better future for the community.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Howard Hampton: I just spoke with one of the councillors, Councillor O’Keese, and I went through the emergency resolution with him. He is very clear, and the emergency resolution is very clear, that there is a real crisis in the community in terms of the abuse of prescription drugs. This community and other First Nations have asked this government repeatedly for the tools to deal with this crisis. They’re very clear: You have many, many young people who are addicted to prescription drugs, and they are responsible for much of the violence.

I want to know, what has this government done on that front to help these communities in crisis deal with this very specific problem?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: That was one of the issues that we spoke about when I was there Saturday evening. It is a very serious issue in that and other communities.

I am very pleased that the Minister of Health has introduced legislation which will begin, with the tools that we have at our disposal, to start to get at the abuse of prescription drugs. We are coordinating, the Ministry of Health with the lead, with the federal government and with, as I say, my other colleague ministers on how to provide the tools to make sure that the community has the tools to address this very serious issue, which does not have easy answers, does not have simple answers—it has been here for some period of time—but does require our involvement at every level.

It requires effective enforcement, community leadership and coordination with the federal government. We’re going to work with the community to see how we can get them to a better place.

TAXATION

Mr. David Zimmer: My question is for the Minister of Revenue. Minister, I know you’ve been talking a lot lately about how the HST plan is going to help the economy by creating jobs and making Ontario more competitive, and I commend you for that, Minister.

Over the past year, our government has been out speaking in public about the HST tax plan and explaining what its various effects are, particularly on the real estate sector. But, Minister, I tell you that there is still confusion out there regarding what the HST is applied to and what it isn’t applied to. Specifically in Willowdale, I’ve had a lot of questions from people confused about how HST applies to the purchase of a home.

Minister, will you clarify how HST affects Ontarians when they’re purchasing a home?

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: I thank the member from Willowdale for his question. When it comes to buying a home, we know that buying a home is one of the largest investments that Ontarians will make.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’m having challenges to hear the honourable minister, and she is just to my right, so I would just—we’ve done so well this week.

Minister.

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, like I said, buying a home is one of the largest investments that Ontarians will make in their lifetime. What I can say is that, simply put, HST is not on resale homes. That is the fact. There is no HST on resale homes and there is no HST on the sale of new homes up to $400,000. That covers 93% of all homes that are sold in Ontario.

The previous Minister of Revenue and I myself will continue to travel the province and talk to Ontarians about the misconceptions and make sure they know what is and what isn’t covered—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. David Zimmer: The Ontario Real Estate Association put out a press release yesterday regarding misconceptions that still exist amongst Ontarians regarding HST and home purchases. The Ontario Real Estate Association has concerns that misinformation that exists in the public is actually hurting the housing industry, and they’re calling on this government to clarify the information around HST and home purchases.

Minister, quite specifically, what are you going to do to get the correct information into the hands of Ontario home purchasers?

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: My office has been in touch, in fact, with both the Ontario Real Estate Association and the Toronto Real Estate Board to offer our support.

I want to assure this House that I will continue to travel the province and talk to Ontarians about the facts about the HST. But again, the simple truth is that there is no HST on the resale of homes, and in fact, there is no HST on any new homes up to $400,000. That’s 93% of the homes sold in Ontario.

The facts are clear. We will continue to go across the province and let everyone know about what is and what isn’t covered under the HST.

HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette: My question is for the Minister of Transportation. We understand the phased approach to the 407 extension—we don’t agree with it, but understand it. However, the previous extension that took the 407 into the region of Durham was designed much to resolve the province’s responsibility for managing the end-of-line gridlock that was being created in Markham as a result of the 407 ending at Highway 48.

Minister, is the province committing to take on the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of financial responsibility as a result of the end-of-line gridlock should the 407 temporarily end at Simcoe Street in Oshawa?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: First of all, let me just say that I think it’s wonderful that on this side of the House, we are pushing ahead with the 407 despite the economic downturn. I have to say that in spite of that—and we’re building a road that will remain in the ownership of the provincial government—I think it’s wonderful to be answering this question from a member who is part of the party that actually gave away a valuable asset.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I want you to know that we are working very closely with the communities. I understand that the member opposite has concerns. We have done the full EA. He knows full well that this is the first stage and that we fully intend that the 407 will go to 35/115.

In the interim, at this first stage, we are working with the mayors and the communities on Simcoe road to make sure that we mitigate the impact of the traffic coming off the highway at that point. I understand it’s a concern. I’ve spoken—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette: Kevin Pask was the ministry lead on the 407 and made it abundantly clear that the 407 end-of-line gridlock at Highway 48 would have to be dealt with by the province. In light of the exorbitant cost to shore up the end-of-line gridlock, would it not be more financially responsible to extend the ending of the 407 to an area that will have a minimal financial impact, as opposed to Simcoe Street in Oshawa, which will cost millions of dollars?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I just want to say to the people who have been involved in advocating on this road, I want you to know that the member for Peterborough has been a huge advocate to get this right. He has worked with us consistently and tirelessly, and made the point that this road to the east needs to be completed. We’ve done the work. We’ve looked at the traffic patterns. The decision has been made to take it to Simcoe Street. We are working with the communities in that area to mitigate the impact of the traffic coming off the highway at that point.

But I go back to my original point. It is a huge boon to communities east of Toronto that we are extending the 407 east, even though the economic downturn could have dictated that we choose not to go ahead with that. We are honouring our commitment that was made as part of the Flow agreement. We’re moving ahead on stage one, and we will continue to work with the communities to make sure that the impact of that road is mitigated—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée.

My colleague just told you the story of what’s going on in Eabametoong in northwestern Ontario with the state of emergency. We’re talking about three murders, 73 drug charges, 61 assaults, 47—let me put this in Toronto numbers: If that was happening in Toronto, we would have had 14,250 murders in the last 10 months. If that was happening in Toronto, we would have had 346,750 drug charges, and the list goes on.

When Bill 101 came, I said, “You have to go to the First Nations. Bill 101 won’t work in the First Nations the way it is written now. It has to change.” Why is it that the minister refused?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I will refer the supplementary to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, but I do want to talk about Bill 101. I want to stress that I think one of the very first times I heard about the issue of the abuse of prescription drugs was from a First Nations chief who, in a very passionate and strong way, described the problem that was happening in his particular community.

Subsequently, I heard from many chiefs who described the devastating impact of prescription drug abuse in their communities. Those leaders in their communities have directly impacted our decision to move ahead with this very important legislation.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary.

M me France Gélinas: Bill 101 is written in a way that is city-centric. It is written in a way that says that people double-doctor—they go to one, two, three, four, five different doctors and get all of those prescriptions—and go to one, two, three, four, five different pharmacies and get all of those dispensed.

None of this makes sense in the First Nations. None of this makes sense in northern Ontario. This bill is made for people who live in cities, and yes, they need help, but what about the rest of us who live in northern Ontario and the rest of us who care about the people in the First Nations? Why won’t we slow down Bill 101 so that we include the needs of the First Nations and we include the needs of rural and northern Ontario, which is struggling with an epidemic of prescription drug abuse?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I have nothing but respect for the passion of the member opposite. This is a devastating problem in all of our communities, but nowhere is this problem more profound and more damaging than in our First Nations communities. I am well aware of that.

What is very important is that we work together with the tools we are going to be creating to monitor the prescribing and the dispensing of these very powerful prescription narcotics. It will have an impact in First Nations communities. They do not manufacture those drugs in First Nations communities. I visited Moosonee this summer, where they no longer actually carry those prescription narcotics in the hospital there. People are getting the prescription drugs off reserve—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Phil McNeely: My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Minister, Ontario families know a sustainable water source is vital to our well-being and our way of life. A great deal of the world’s fresh water is found right in our own backyard and in the Great Lakes. A key plank of the Open Ontario act is to ensure Ontario becomes a centre of excellence in developing clean water technology. Ontario has already been identified as a leader in the emerging market of clean water, a key driver of economic prosperity.

Minister, protecting the environment by creating good green jobs seems to be a priority for the McGuinty government. But will becoming a leader in clean water technology actually help Ontario?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to thank my colleague for the question. On this side of the House, we do not believe that protecting the economy and protecting the environment are mutually exclusive. If we build an economy based on green technology, we are protecting the environment and we’re creating great jobs today for our children and for our grandchildren.

Let me assure all Ontarians of one thing: The proposed Water Opportunities and Water Conservation Act before this House is about exporting our technology for clean water to a world that needs clean water. But it is not about exporting our amazing, vital resource, the clean water resources that we have right here in Ontario. It’s about exporting our technology and creating jobs right here in Ontario.

It follows on a wonderful legacy of conservation. We’re going to ensure that conservation of water becomes part of the way of life here in Ontario, and that also will lead to new—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Phil McNeely: The world relies on these Ontario companies to provide the technology to keep them safe. My constituents in Ottawa–Orléans would be pleased to know that Ontario is creating green jobs and exporting our technologies around the world. Ontario’s fresh water supply is a limited resource, one that must be cherished and protected for future generations. Some residents in my riding want to make sure that any economic development does not come at the expense of this valuable resource.

Minister, can you tell this House how the proposed Water Opportunities and Water Conservation Act will actually improve water conservation in Ontario?

Hon. John Wilkinson: First of all, I would say that the clean water technology market, globally, is $400 billion and that that market is growing at 15% a year. Why? Because there are so many nations and so many communities that do not have what we have. We have been blessed with one of the greatest natural resources of clean water in the world. What we’re focused on as a government has been to keep our water clean from source to tap. Because of those investments that we’ve made, we are global leaders.

The world is looking for solutions that are made and invented here in Ontario, solutions that will lead to good, green jobs right here in Ontario, the jobs that we want for our children. There are some 22,000 people in the province of Ontario today already employed in that sector. We lead the world in ultraviolet disinfection, in membrane technology, in the design of compact sewage treatment plants. All of those things are available now to a world that needs them. It’s important for us to pass this act—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

MEMBER’S CONDUCT

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: To the Acting Premier: The Premier said, “When you enter public life, and particularly when you serve as minister of the crown, special standards apply.” It says a lot about the pre-judgment of Premier McGuinty and the standards he sets for his ministers that he chose to add someone who attacks the police to be Minister of Research and Innovation. Before Premier McGuinty picked the minister over all the other long-serving and loyal Liberals in the backbenches, the minister made another public statement about the police via Twitter. He asked: “Why did you confine many of my constituents and friends for four hours in the pouring rain?”

Don’t he and the Premier know that the answer to that question is because the McGuinty cabinet passed a secret law allowing it? Could you comment on that, Minister?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: This House, this Parliament, deals with tremendous issues all the time, and I have great respect for the integrity of all members. I believe all members do their very best, and I want to say to my colleague the Minister of Research and Innovation that I’ve rarely met a man in public life with his integrity and character.

This line of questioning demeans all of us. I believe it adds to what was already an unfortunate circumstance that was apologized for. I believe the Leader of the Opposition is a man of integrity. I believe the member opposite is a man of integrity. I’ve had the opportunity to work with him on many, many issues. I think we can all raise the level of public debate if we acknowledge mistakes, and we correct them when we’re wrong. If I had a nickel for every misstep I’ve taken in my public life, I’d be—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: The issue is the Premier’s judgment and the qualities he looks for in a cabinet minister. The OLG scandals prove he’s not looking for accountability. Long service doesn’t seem to matter. The pattern of the minister’s attack emails must be it.

Why did Premier McGuinty pick the member from Toronto Centre when there are members of the Liberal caucus who don’t have a record of ill-conceived attack messages?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’m not even going to allow that question. It’s not for the Acting Premier to get inside the brain of the Premier as to his decision-making process.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: He should be here, then.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Simcoe North as well knows the issue of dealing with the attendance of members.

The time for question period has ended.

VISITORS

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti: It’s my pleasure to have in the members’ gallery here my parents, my father and my mother, Antonio and Italia Berardinetti. My father is 80 years old today. I just want to wish him a happy birthday. Between them is my beautiful wife, Michelle Berardinetti, who is the councillor-elect for ward 35 in Scarborough Southwest.

CORRECTION OF RECORD

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I would like to correct some comments I made in this Legislature on October 26. I want to thank the member for Kitchener–Waterloo for bringing this to my attention this morning in debate on Bill 122. I did make an inaccurate statement about the member holding a ministerial portfolio in a certain year. I referred to four contracts single-sourced by hospitals during the Conservative government, attributing three to the member from Kitchener–Waterloo and one to the former member for Parry Sound–Muskoka.

In fact, two of these contracts were handed out while the member for Kitchener–Waterloo was Minister of Health and two while the former member for Parry Sound–Muskoka was Minister of Health.

I do apologize for the mistake and appreciate the member for Kitchener–Waterloo for helping me to clarify that both Conservative Ministers of Health were equally involved with regard to hospital—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I just remind the honourable members that, yes, it is a point of order to correct the record, but not to engage in additional debate in the course of correcting one’s record.

There being no deferred votes, this House stands recessed until 1 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1138 to 1300.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Bob Delaney: I’d like to introduce Imran Chaudry, chairman, and Georgina Bencsik, adviser. Both are from the Benazir Bhutto Shaheed International Foundation and People’s Human Rights Wing Canada and are seated in the members’ east gallery. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I would like to take this opportunity to welcome to the Speaker’s gallery today, with my assistant Maggie Head, Mr. Ron Flemons. Ron is a defensive end with the Toronto Argonauts. Welcome to Queen’s Park today, Ron.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

INGERSOLL PIPE BAND

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: It’s with great pleasure that I rise today to recognize the 100th anniversary of the Ingersoll Pipe Band. Recognized by many as Canada’s oldest and largest independent pipe band, they have been a mainstay in Ingersoll since 1910.

The band was formed by brothers James and Jack Little, William Collins and Tom Johnston, who became the first pipe major. Under the leadership of Pipe Major Johnston, the band recruited talented drummers and players of the great highland bagpipe and began to cement their place in Canadian history.

With the beg