British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, October 6, 2009

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

First Session, 39th Parliament o FFicial rePort o F Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari So FF, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Tuesday, October 6, 2009 Afternoon Sitting Volume 4, Number 2

Pro Vince o F britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc First Session, 39th Parliament SPeaker o F the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations ....................................................................................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance .......................................................................................................................... h on. c olin h ansen Minister of State for the o lympics and a ctn ow b.c. ....................................................................................................... h on.

Mary Mcn eil Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .....................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................ h on. Moira Stilwell Minister of a griculture and l ands ...................................................................................................................................h on.

Steve Thomson a ttorney General ...................................................................................................................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of c hildren and Family Development and Minister r esponsible for c hild c are ............................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of citizens' Services and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism and the Public a ffairs bureau ...........h on. ben Stewart Minister of c ommunity and r ural Development ................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of e ducation and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy ......................................h on.

Margaret MacDiarmid Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources .....................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................h on. r andy h awes Minister of environment .......................................................................................................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of State for c limate a ction ...........................................................................................................................................h on.

John Y ap Minister of Forests and r ange and Minister r esponsible for the integrated l and Management bureau ........................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ...................................................................................................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport ...................................................................................................................................... h on. ida c hong Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour ................................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Murray c oell Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .....................................................................................................................h on. k ash h eed Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development ................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...................................................................................................................... h on. k evin k rueger Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on.

Shirley bond leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................................................... l inda r eid a ssistant Deputy Speaker .............................................................................................................................................................c laire t revena Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms .................................................................................................................................................................................

Gary l enz Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern a cting l egislative l ibrarian .......................................................................................................................................................... Peter Gourlay l egislative c omptroller ....................................................................................................................................................................... Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t o F MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................................................Penticton barnett, Donna (l) ................................................................ c ariboo-c hilcotin bell, h on.

Pat (l) ..................................................... Prince George–Mackenzie bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................k ootenay e ast black, Dawn (nDP) ................................................................n ew Westminster black, h on. iain (l) ..................................................... Port Moody–c oquitlam bloy, h arry (l) ......................................................................burnaby-l ougheed bond, h on.

Shirley (l) ...........................................Prince George–Valemount brar, Jagrup (nDP) ................................................................ Surrey-Fleetwood c adieux, Stephanie (l) ...........................................................Surrey-Panorama c ampbell, h on. Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, r on (l) ..............................................................

Parksville-Qualicum c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c oell, h on. Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ...........................................

Fort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) .............................................................. k ootenay West c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c orrigan, k athy (nDP) ..................................................... burnaby–Deer l ake Dalton, Marc (l) .............................................................. Maple r idge–Mission de Jong, h on.

Michael, Qc (l) .............................................. a bbotsford West Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway Donaldson, Doug (nDP) ......................................................................... Stikine e lmore, Mable (nDP) ................................................... Vancouver-kensington Falcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale Farnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................................................

Port c oquitlam Fleming, r ob (nDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan l ake Foster, eric (l) .......................................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Scott (nDP) ............................................................a lberni–Pacific r im Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) ..................................................

Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, h on. r andy (l) ..................................................... a bbotsford-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h eed, h on. k ash (l) ...................................................... Vancouver-Fraserview h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ..................................................Vancouver–West end h ogg, Gordon (l) ............................................................... Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................................

Juan de Fuca h orne, Douglas (l) ..............................................c oquitlam–b urke Mountain h oward, r ob (l) .....................................................................r ichmond c entre h untington, Vicki (ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ........................................e squimalt–r oyal r oads k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) ..................................... k amloops–South Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ake, t erry (l) .....................................................k amloops–n orth Thompson l ali, h arry (nDP) ..........................................................................Fraser-n icola l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) .......................................................

Peace r iver South l es, John (l) .........................................................................................c hilliwack l etnick, n orm (l) ........................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry MacDiarmid, h on. Margaret (l) ..................................... Vancouver-Fairview Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke Mcintyre, Joan (l) ..................................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Mcn eil, h on.

Mary (l) .................................................Vancouver–False creek Mcr ae, Don (l) ............................................................................. c omox Valley Mungall, Michelle (nDP) ..........................................................n elson-creston Penner, hon. barry (l) ............................................................c hilliwack-h ope Pimm, Pat (l) ..........................................................................Peace r iver n orth Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Popham, l ana (nDP) ...................................................................Saanich South r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, l inda (l) .............................................................................r ichmond e ast r outley, bill (nDP) .................................................................. c owichan Valley r outley, Doug (nDP) ............................................n anaimo–n orth c owichan r ustad, John (l) ........................................................................... n echako l akes Sather, Michael (nDP) ......................................... Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ...................................

Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Slater, John (l) ..............................................................boundary-Similkameen Stewart, h on. ben (l) ........................................................... Westside-kelowna Stilwell, h on. Moira (l) ...................................................... Vancouver-l angara Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thomson, hon. Steve (l) ........................................................k elowna-Mission Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thornthwaite, Jane (l) .......................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, John (l) .............................................................a bbotsford South Y amamoto, hon. n aomi (l) ................................. n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Y ap, hon.

John (l) .............................................................r ichmond-Steveston liS t o F MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-Mission .............................................................h on. r andy h awes a bbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen a bbotsford West ...................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc a lberni–Pacific r im ..........................................................................

Scott Fraser boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater burnaby–Deer l ake ................................................................... k athy c orrigan burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-l ougheed ............................................................................ h arry bloy burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee c ariboo-c hilcotin ........................................................................Donna barnett c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c hilliwack ...............................................................................................

John l es c hilliwack-h ope ...................................................................h on. barry Penner c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley.................................................................................... Don Mcr ae c oquitlam–b urke Mountain .....................................................Douglas h orne c oquitlam-Maillardville...............................................................

Diane Thorne c owichan Valley ................................................................................ bill r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki h untington e squimalt–r oyal r oads .....................................................Maurine k aragianis Fort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman Fraser-n icola........................................................................................ h arry l ali Juan de Fuca .....................................................................................John h organ k amloops–n orth Thompson .............................................................t erry l ake k amloops–South Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ...............................................................n orm l etnick k elowna-Mission .............................................................. h on.

Steve Thomson k ootenay e ast .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett k ootenay West ............................................................................ k atrine c onroy l angley.......................................................................................h on. Mary Polak Maple r idge–Mission .....................................................................

Marc Dalton Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo–n orth c owichan ......................................................... Doug r outley n echako l akes ..................................................................................

John r ustad n elson-creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall n ew Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn black n orth c oast....................................................................................... Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ........................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto n orth Vancouver–Seymour .................................................

Jane Thornthwaite o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... r on c antelon Peace r iver n orth ................................................................................

Pat Pimm Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton................................................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam ..........................................................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–c oquitlam .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Valemount ...................................................h on. Shirley bond r ichmond c entre ............................................................................ r ob h oward r ichmond e ast ................................................................................... l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston .................................................................... h on. John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ................................................................................ l ana Popham Shuswap ...............................................................................h on. George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Stikine .......................................................................................

Doug Donaldson Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Surrey-Fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey-Panorama ..................................................................Stephanie c adieux Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ....................................................................... Gordon h ogg Vancouver-Fairview ............................................. h on. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–False creek ........................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Vancouver-Fraserview ..............................................................h on. k ash h eed Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington .................................................................Mable e lmore Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ............................................................. h on. Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .........................................

Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Vancouver–West end ................................................................Spencer h erbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................eric Foster Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria–Swan l ake.........................................................................r ob Fleming West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................

Joan Mcintyre Westside-kelowna ...................................................................h on. ben Stewart Party Standings: l iberal 49; n ew Democratic 35; independent 1

CONTENTS t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 a fternoon Sitting Page Routine Business introductions by Members ....................................................................................................................................................... 975 introduction and First r eading of bills .................................................................................................................................. 975 bill M202 — l obbyist r egistry r eform a ct, 2009 c.

James Statements (Standing order 25b) ........................................................................................................................................... 976 Parent advisory councils S. Fraser Sturge-Weber syndrome r . l ee r esponse to typhoon in the Philippines M. e lmore h armac mill r . c antelon h arry n yce r . a ustin c ommunity l iving Month J.

Thornthwaite oral Questions ........................................................................................................................................................................... 978 impact of harmonized sales tax on tourism industry c. James h on. c. h ansen S. h erbert n. Macdonald M. Farnworth Government action on women's equality and violence against aboriginal women M. Mungall h on. k. h eed Women's access to legal aid services k. c orrigan h on. M. de Jong a ctions of o lympic Games security unit l. k rog h on. k. h eed S.

Simpson Petitions ...................................................................................................................................................................................... 983 S.

Simpson Orders of the Day c ommittee of the Whole h ouse .............................................................................................................................................. 983 bill 6 — i nsurance a mendment a ct, 2009 (continued) b. r alston h on. c. h ansen r eport and Third r eading of bills ........................................................................................................................................... 994 bill 6 — i nsurance a mendment a ct, 2009

c ommittee of the Whole h ouse .............................................................................................................................................. 994 bill 8 — Strata Property a mendment a ct, 2009 S.

Simpson h on. r . c oleman r eport and Third r eading of bills ......................................................................................................................................... 1014 bill 8 — Strata Property a mendment a ct, 2009 Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 1014 e stimates: Ministry of t ransportation and infrastructure h on. S. bond h. b ains G. c oons

975 tueSD a Y , october 6, 2009 The h ouse met at 1:33 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Introductions by Members L. Popham: First of all, i'd like to introduce my three friends visiting us today: Julie k aye, Susan a dams and Phillipa Fairburn. Julie and Susan are here for the first time. it's great to see them. Y ou all may recognize Phillipa as she's with the Sergeant-at-a rms here, keep- ing us safe. i would also like to make another introduction. We have c laremont high school here, a grade 11 social stud- ies class, with their teacher Phil o hl. i'd like to make them welcome. Hon. C.

Hansen: There are three representatives of the a rthritis Society that are joining us in the gallery this afternoon. i had the pleasure of attending their bluebird Gala, their annual big fundraising dinner in Vancouver just last week, where they raised nearly half a million dollars in that one evening. it's money that will go towards research and support for the more than 600,000 b ritish c olumbians living with arthritis.

The three who are here today are Marg Vanenberg, a longtime friend, who is the executive director; and Quincey k irschner, the director of education and ser - vices with the society, who is obviously no stranger to this h ouse and to its members. a lso, l orne Mayencourt is joining us today. h e is, of course, a longtime member for Vancouver-burrard who has just recently become the director of major gifts for the a rthritis Society. Will the h ouse please make them welcome. [1335] Hon. K.

Falcon: Just following up on the introduction by the Finance Minister, i too want to recognize the three individuals that the Minister of Finance recognized. i also want to thank c heryl k oehn, the president of the a rthritis c onsumer e xperts, and also a couple of doctors who were here at an event i was at, at 12 noon, and were not only promoting the results of the Where is a rthritis t our that undertook a tour across british c olumbia but also tested the Minister of h ealth along with some of my other colleagues to make sure that we are aware if there are arthritic conditions.

Fortunately, i think i passed the test at this point. but i do want to thank c heryl k oehn, the president of the a rthritis c onsumer e xperts, and also the two doctors that came along, Dr. Jason k ur, rheumatology clinical instructor at ubc, and Dr. a da Mann, who has a residency in rheumatology at ubc. They were all there today, and we want to make them welcome. Hon. M. de Jong: it's been 33 years since the indian men's national field hockey team has been in c anada.

They were last here to participate in the 1976 o lympics in Montreal, but they are here again to participate in a seven-game super series taking place from o ctober 9 to 24 in Victoria and Surrey. They are led by their management team: Mr. a nupam Ghulati; their coach, Mr. Jose brasa; assistant coach, Mr. r amandeep Singh Grewal; and their goalie coach, Mr. r omeo Jones. i know that members will want to make them feel welcome as they will watch us stickhandle our way through the legislative proceedings. Introduction and First Reading of Bills bill M202 — lobb YiSt re GiStr Y reForM act, 2009 c.

James presented a bill intituled l obbyist r egistry r eform a ct, 2009. C. James: i move that a bill intituled l obbyist r egistry r eform a ct, 2009, be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. C. James: The l obbyist r egistry r eform a ct intro- duces amendments to b.c.'s l obbyists r egistration a ct.

The official opposition has introduced lobby reform amendments in previous private members' bills, includ- ing the a ccountability a ct introduced by the official opposition in 2008. l ike the a ccountability a ct, this bill reflects recom- mendations made by the information and Privacy c ommissioner in his letter to the former a ttorney General dated o ctober 6, 2008. in his letter to the regis- trar, David l oukidelis called the existing act inadequate and advised that amendments to the legislation provid- ing "robust mechanisms for compliance oversight" were needed at the earliest opportunity. h ere we are today halfway through our fall sitting of the l egislature, and no legislative amendments have come forward.

This bill introduces information and Privacy c om- missioner recommendations to make the lobbyists registry more effective. Those amendments include an obligation the public office holders verify registration, the power for the registrar to levy administrative pen- alties and a provision making it an offence to obstruct the registrar. The legislative authority to set regulations regarding registration fees has also been removed.

british c olumbia Debates976 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 These amendments will provide clear rules to ensure that lobbying is done ethically and transparently. Members of this h ouse will recall the many commitments to open- ness and transparency made by the government. This act actually establishes stronger, more open and more trans- parent requirements for the ethical conduct of lobbyists and public office holders in this province. Mr.

Speaker, i move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today. bill M202, l obbyist r egistry r eform a ct, 2009, intro- duced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) Parent a DViSor Y council S S.

Fraser: The district parent advisory council is an organization made up of representatives of school Pac s which act as a liaison between schools, the school board and also a provincial parent body called the b.c . c onfederation of Parent a dvisory c ouncils. Some 1,700 parent advisory councils — or P ac s, as they're known — cover for critical shortfalls in the education system throughout the prov- ince. Their work has become essential for the well-being of our students.

Their vital funding comes from direct access gaming grants, and the parents involved lever the value of every dollar they get from that money. [1340] With recent unexpected and massive cuts to those funds, volunteers will have to redouble their efforts. o ur Pacs provide for everything from sports programs to reading clubs, from outings and field trips to playground equipment. if it were not for the selfless work and dedi- cation of the parents involved, dropout rates would be higher, grades would be lower, and grad rates would be down in the province of british c olumbia. The Pacs fundraise too.

The breakfast club at eighth a venue and aDSS — a lberni District Secondary School — in Port a lberni are examples of this and are largely run through donations. The Pac at aDSS feeds over 300 students breakfast every day. When children have food in their stomachs, then it's shown that their behaviour improves, grades improve and attendance improves. The parental advisory council at e.J.

Dunne Middle School in a lberni Valley has provided needed bursar - ies, social responsibility programs such as the r oots of empathy, anti-bullying education and breakfasts for hungry children. a nd there are more hungry children in british c olumbia than ever before. in these trying economic times and especially in resource communities like Port a lberni that have been hit hard, the importance of parent advisory councils has never been greater. l et us all in this h ouse never forget that. Stur Ge -Weber SYn Dro Me R.

Lee: e arlier this year i had the pleasure to meet a constituent of mine named Deirdre Forbes Mccracken. From Deirdre i learned of a rare congenital disease called Sturge-Weber syndrome that affects her son c onnor. n ext week is Sturge-Weber a wareness Week, and i would like to share some of what i have learned. a t birth Sturge-Weber is usually associated with a port wine stain, a reddish to violet discoloration of the skin covering the eyelid and the forehead. With this condition, a collection of abnormal blood vessels overlying the brain affects brain function.

Sturge- Weber can be associated with epilepsy, often beginning in the first year of life. Progressive weakness of one side of the body, similar to that caused by a stroke, is common. l earning disabilities, intellectual impairment, behav- ioural problems and in some cases symptoms similar to attention deficit disorder or attention deficit hyperactiv- ity disorder can be present. Glaucoma may be present at birth or can appear months or years later. increased fluid pressure with this condition may damage the optic nerve and result in vision loss.

The cause of Sturge-Weber syndrome remains unknown, as does a cure. h owever, the Sturge-Weber Foundation of c anada is working to change this. i encourage all mem- bers to visit their website at www.sturge-weber.ca where we can learn more about this condition. This site also has information about a fundraiser on Saturday, o ctober 17 at the Massey Theatre in n ew Westminster. i hope this event is very successful and that one day a cure will be found. re SPon Se to t YPhoon in the PhiliPP ineS M. Elmore: i'll be speaking today about hope for vic- tims of t yphoon k etsana in the Philippines.

This is a story of hope in the midst of disaster. it is about ordinary british c olumbians responding to the needs of Filipinos devastated by t yphoon k etsana. a s of yesterday — Monday, o ctober 5 — latest reports say there are 288 fatalities with 42 people still missing, and damage to infrastructure and agriculture is esti- mated at over $193 million c anadian. a total of nearly 800,000 families, or four million per - sons across the country, were affected by t yphoon k etsana.

During this traumatic period i sympathize greatly with all those trying to rebuild their lives today — especially with the women, who are often made more vulnerable as a result of natural and manmade disasters such as

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 977 this. i understand that since women are overrepresented in the informal and agricultural sectors, areas greatly hit by t yphoon k etsana, a large number of women are left without a means of income as they struggle to provide for their family and daily needs. [1345] but as i witness the calamity brought by this typhoon, i also recognize the hope that organizations and individ- uals are trying to give to the victims. Soon after we heard about the devastation wrought by t yphoon k etsana, efforts were underway to provide relief to the victims.

Within 48 hours meetings were held, donation drop- off points were set up and fundraisers were organized. i applaud all of these initiatives, and i think it's fantastic that many in the Filipino and broader community have taken the initiative to raise funds for the Filipino-based organizations closest to their hearts. Given the widespread destruction resulting from the typhoon, it's urgently important to mobilize as much help from as many people as possible.

During this very difficult time i'd like to recognize a number of organ- izations with fundraising efforts: c anada-Philippines Solidarity for h uman r ights, Migrante b.c., c ommittee for Domestic Workers and c aregivers r ights, Salamat, the t yphoon ondoy fundraiser through the enspire Foundation and local church groups working with the n ational c ouncil of c hurches in the Philippines. Thank you to everyone who has already donated and given their time for this relief work. harMac Mill R.

Cantelon: They said that it couldn't happen and it couldn't be done, but they were wrong. it was about a year ago that a group of employees under the banner of n anaimo Forest Products petitioned the court in June in Vancouver to take over the pulp mill from Pope and t albot. n ow, there were a lot of bottom feeders there — i was there in the courtroom, and i could tell you it was high drama — who said: " n ah, they can never make it.

Just break the mill up, sell the parts, ship it overseas, do whatever." Well, these were determined people, and i was happy to see that the province, under the a ttorney General, gave the court to consider the fact that there were jobs at stake here and that they were at risk. but it was about more than jobs. it was about the fact that these employers and union workers got together, and they were ready to risk their homes — risk every- thing to make this venture work. it was about more than just their jobs. it is a critical core of employment for the entire city of n anaimo. in fact, it's fair to say that this was really the way the pulp industry was going with many mill shutdowns — virtually the last stand of the forest industry. if we were to lose a pulp mill, it would have a domino effect throughout the forest industry on Vancouver island.

These workers are committed not just for their employment but for the employment of their children. it was really something. both sides of this h ouse have said often: "We need to work together, put management and union together, and develop a new rapport." We talked about it, and they did it. They created a new model that's working very, very well in nanaimo. i credit l evi Sampson and the energy and leadership he brought. h e brought investors with new money, fresh ideas and fresh entrepreneurship.

The naysayers said: "it won't last until c hristmas." Well, last Sunday they cele- brated the first year of successful operation. There are 216 employees there, and they're reaching production levels of a thousand metric tons per day. Pulp prices are up to $6.60. n ow no longer is the issue: can we make it? it's: where do we go from here? harr Y nY ce R. Austin: i would like to tell this h ouse about a remarkable constituent of mine and his long journey of public service for his small community, his first nation and, as of last week, this province.

The constituent is Mr. h arry n yce Sr., who is the newly elected president of the u nion of b.c. Municipalities. h arry has been the elected chief councillor of his com- munity of Gitwinksihlkw — or c anyon city as it is called in english — for 14 years. h arry has served the broader public as a director of the regional district of k itimat-Stikine for the past 23 years. a s one of the principal negotiators of the n isga'a treaty in 1988, h arry n yce was given the name of Sim'oogit Saga'ween — Sim'oogit meaning chief and Saga'ween meaning sharp tooth.

This is a historical family name that belonged to a great hunter and fisherman. in 1996 h arry began serving on the executive of ubc M. l ooking at the long history of ubc M, i noticed that there have been presidents from all four corners of this province. While representatives from the larger cities have dominated this important position, there have also been a few from smaller communities. l illooet, Mackenzie and t rail come to mind as examples. but let me share why this election is quite extraordinary. First of all, h arry is once again breaking ground in being the first aboriginal leader to hold this post.

Second, he hails from a community that has a popula- tion of only 250 people, a small village resting on the banks of the n ass r iver where the original n isga'a population of another community had to resettle after the last volcanic eruption in this country around 250 years ago. [1350] There are no stores there and just a one-way bridge across the river. only 25 years ago there wasn't even that

british c olumbia Debates978 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 bridge, and everything was barged across the beauti- ful n ass r iver. i'm sure that when h arry first went to a lberta and then to the u niversity of british c olumbia to study political science, it must have been just a dream to enter public life and serve his community. That dream has come to a great climax, and i wish h arry well. i'm sure that his experience and wisdom will shine and that all of us will be the beneficiaries of his leadership. co MMunit Y liVin G Month J.

Thornthwaite: c ommunity l iving Month is cele- brated nationally each year to acknowledge the gifts and talents that people with developmental disabilities bring to their communities. i was fortunate enough to meet c aitlyn Sassaman and Mary Dowdall in my office at one of my first appointments in my constituency in June. c ommunity l iving b.c., a provincial crown agency, believes that adults with developmental disabilities and their families have the right to pursue good lives in wel- coming communities. Part of a good life is feeling safe where you live, go to school, work and play.

This year clbc is celebrating community l iving Month with Start with h i, an initiative to encourage british c olumbians to make individuals with developmental dis- abilities feel safe and included in their communities. Start with h i was created to build all british c olumbians' aware- ness and to help people with disabilities feel safer and more welcome in their communities by simply saying hi. Start with h i is built on a social networking basis and encourages british c olumbians to share their stories of inclusion and safety on a microsite, startwithhi.ca, and through t witter and Facebook.

We're all responsible and have a role in building an inclusive and supportive community for our fellow cit- izens who live with developmental disabilities. During c ommunity l iving Month and beyond, we ask every- one to start with hi and take it from there. it can be the beginning of a small connection that can lead to a larger sense of safety, belonging and welcome for someone in your community. i encourage all members to take

part in c ommunity l iving Month and Start with h i. Great things can happen through small actions. Oral Questions iMPact o F harM oniZeD SaleS taX on touri SM in Du Str Y C. James: a report commissioned by the t ourism industry a ssociation of ontario shows that tourists in that province will be paying a lot more because of the hS t . h ere's just one example from that report. a week- end holiday for two people alone will see a 44 percent increase in taxes under ontario's hS t . My question is to the Minister of t ourism.

What analysis did the b.c. government do on the impact of the hS t on the tourism industry, and will he table that information today? Hon. C. Hansen: What we know is that the tourism industry in n orth a merica does well when the economy does well.

We also know, according to leading econo- mists throughout c anada, that the shift to the hS t is probably the single biggest thing that we can do to create jobs and stimulate economic growth. but i can also tell the l eader of the o pposition what is a recipe to destroy the tourism industry in british c olumbia. it's a recipe that calls for a 20 percent increase in their wage costs, which was proposed by that l eader of the o pposition, and it's also measures that would ensure that the…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister, just take your seat for a second. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. C.

Hansen: a nd the tourism industry in british c olumbia also knows that making sure they have some of the most competitive corporate taxes in n orth a merica will allow them to thrive and allow them to flourish in british c olumbia in opposition to the kind of policy that the l eader of the o pposition announced last week, which would ensure that they do not get the benefit of tax reductions that this government has announced. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. The l eader of the official o pposition has a supple- mental. [1355] C.

James: i guess that's the answer from this govern- ment to the tourism industry: "We're bringing in a new tax that's going to hurt your industry, and sorry, we did no analysis whatsoever — none." That's basically what the minister said to the tourism industry today — no analysis on a new tax that is going to negatively impact the industry. l et's take a look at what the ontario report said: "The application of the hS t on visitor-related goods and services will result in widespread increases to the total price by the consumer.

Whether it's movie tickets, taxi fares, parks admissions, hotel rates or restaurant meals, consumers will be paying more under the hS t , and an entire sector of our economy will be hurt." a gain my question is to the Minister of t ourism. During a time when revenues are down and tourism has

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 979 already been taking a hit, how can this government jus- tify forcing a new tax on this industry with no analysis of the impact? Hon. C. Hansen: i think what the tourism industry should be asking of the l eader of the o pposition is…. if she's such a big supporter of the tourism sector, why is she denying them some of the most competitive tax rates in n orth a merica? in terms of the tourism sector, there is no question. There are some things after tax that are going to be a little bit more expensive.

There are other things that are actually going to be less expensive, and a hotel room is one of those things that will come down in terms of the tax rate that will be applied to the consumer. We know that the hS t is going to stimulate the econ- omy. it's going to create jobs. e ven though we do not have an unemployment rate in british c olumbia that is anywhere near the unemployment rates that we saw in the 1990s, we still have an unemployment rate that is unacceptably high.

This initiative that we are taking will stimulate those jobs, stabilize those communities and make sure that families are going to be able to travel and enjoy the tourism product that is offered throughout british c olumbia. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. The l eader of the o pposition has a further supple- mental. C. James: it's obvious that the government hasn't lis- tened to anyone in the tourism industry, because the clear message that's coming across is that the hS t is going to hurt the industry, and this government is not listening to the tourism industry. That's what's clear.

They didn't consult, and they didn't do any kind of analysis around how this is going to hurt the industry. it's very clear. The hS t was brought in by stealth in the middle of a recession, weeks after the polls had closed. n ow b.c. consumers and the economy will pay the price. So my question is again to the Minister of t ourism. Why are the b.c. l iberals, in a recession, taking a hammer to the tourism sector without a shred of con- sultation or analysis? Hon. C.

Hansen: Well, i wonder if the l eader of the o pposition consulted with british c olumbians before she said to the tourism industry that she was going to take away their small business reduction. i wonder if the l eader of the o pposition consulted with british c olumbians before she came out in oppos- ition to the 2010 o lympic and Paralympic Games. i can tell you, Mr. Speaker, the o lympic and Paralympic Games are going to be the biggest benefit to the tourism industry in british c olumbia not only for 2010 but for 2011, for 2012 and for the next decade ahead.

That is exactly why in the September Budget Update, we put an additional $39 million into tourism marketing in british c olumbia to make sure that the world knows that british c olumbia is one of the best tourism destina- tions anywhere on the planet. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just wait, Member. [1400] S. Herbert: Well, i think what we've seen from that side is that there is no Minister of t ourism.

The gov- ernment promised to double tourism by 2015, but then they hit the industry with a new tax, the hS t , which the c ouncil of t ourism a ssociations says will be devastat- ing and ruinous to businesses. The b.c. l iberals did it without consultation and have done zero studies on the impact of the hS t on our province's biggest employer — the tourism industry. Well, i'll tell you what the ontario tourism study shows. it shows costs massively increasing for consum- ers and says that the hS t will be a big negative for that industry.

My question for the Minister of t ourism, if he should decide to stand: why did the b.c. l iberals fail to ana- lyze the impact of the hS t on the number one employer in our province? a nd why should these businesses and employees pay the price, through bankruptcies and job losses, for the hS t betrayal and this government's incompetence? Hon. C.

Hansen: if this member is such a big supporter of the tourism sector, why was he out advocating that they should have an instant 20 percent increase in their wage costs in british c olumbia? if this party on the other side is such a big supporter of the tourism industry, why was their leader out opposing the bid for the o lympics, which is going to be one of the biggest benefits for the tourism industry? i recommend to the member opposite that he actually read the study that was done by the tD bank chief economist, which came out just two weeks ago, that shows that, yes, there is going to be a very, very small increase… interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C. Hansen: …in consumer prices in c anada. it would be about a 0.9 percent increase in consumer

british c olumbia Debates980 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 prices, and that is a far cry from the grandiose increases that the member is purporting. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. S. Herbert: a gain, we see that the t ourism Minister is missing — missing on this file that's crucial to their industry. The t ourism Minister — and i'll quote him since he won't speak in this h ouse — is quoted as saying that the tourism industry's fears are unfounded. r eality check, Mr. Minister. t ourism revenues are already falling. businesses are already struggling to keep from going under.

People are already travelling less. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. S. Herbert: So what do the b.c. l iberals do? They slam these businesses and consumers with the hS t which, according to this new report, will increase total taxation for a weekend holiday by 46 percent; a family camping trip, 33 percent; conventions, 37 percent. That's not unfounded, Minister.

That's an attack. c ommenting on the b.c. l iberals' attack on tour - ism, Jon Garson, vice-president of the b.c. c hamber of c ommerce, said: "We see government standing behind the tourism industry, pushing them off the edge." Pushing them off the edge, Mr. Minister. My question to the Minister of t ourism, should he finally choose to stand: when he calls the industry's fears unfounded, is he just incompetent, or is he intent on push- ing the tourism industry off the edge and the employees out of their jobs and the businesses into bankruptcy? Hon. C.

Hansen: i think if the member took the time to check, he would find that the b.c . c hamber of commerce is not only an active supporter of the hS t , but they have been an active supporter of the hSt since the mid-1990s. Mr. Speaker, i'll tell you what would have slammed the tourism industry in british c olumbia. What would have slammed the tourism industry in british c olumbia is… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister. Minister. Hon. C. Hansen: …a 20 percent increase in their wage cost, which was advocated by that member and that party in the last election. N.

Macdonald: Well, british c olumbians know that they're paying for a Minister of t ourism, and i think the question most have is: why? This is a minister that is supposed to be able to stand in this h ouse and answer a question. You have Panorama, r evelstoke, k icking h orse, k imberley, Fernie ski resort. a ll draw heavily from a lberta and the prairie provinces.

Panorama says that 80 percent of the people that they attract are from those jurisdictions. [1405] The hS t is going to add a new 7 percent tax on lift tickets, meals, ski and snowboard rentals, ski school fees, day care, and the list goes on and on. it is a predictable result. it will be devastating. That is what the industry is saying. h ow can the minister defend this government imposing a job killer of a tax with no study at all into the repercussions and with no consultation? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C.

Hansen: What those visitors will find after next July when they come to british c olumbia is that their hotel room costs are actually going to be lower because of a reduction in the hotel costs. They're also going to find that when they enjoy that nice meal at that restaurant in any of those resorts, that bottle of wine — that nice b.c . wine that they have along with that meal — is actually going to be lower in cost.

Y ou also find that the success of ski hills around british c olumbia does better when the economy is doing well, and they suffer when the economy is doing poorly. in the 1990s when we never had a single year where the unemployment rate was below 8 percent, it was a diffi- cult time for the tourism industry because unemployed british c olumbians don't get the chance to enjoy those resorts and facilities. The hS t will stimulate the economy, it will stimulate job creation, and those employed british c olumbians are going to be able to have the opportunity of enjoying our fine tourism offers around this province.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N. Macdonald: Well, having heard that weak defence from this minister five or six times here, i completely understand why he didn't want to make it during the election. i completely understand. What the industry is telling the Minister of t ourism, if he cares to stand up and speak in this h ouse, and what the Minister of Finance is hearing is clear. it's not just the k ootenays; it's the o kanagan. big White Ski r esort describes the hS t as terrible.

They say: "i t's like a brick wall right in front of us." Management says that it's not only the list, which i've already spoken about here; it's also 7 percent on flights. it is a complete reversal of b.c. l iberal pre-election promises. it is a job killer. The question i have for the

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 981 Minister of t ourism is: how could he enter into and sup- port a tax that he has not studied and that the industry is saying is a job killer? h ow can he stand and support that — or will he stand? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C.

Hansen: i recommend to the member that he actually read some of the material that's been put out by c anada's leading economists not just this year but over the last number of years, which actually indicates that this shift to a value-added tax — like 130 countries around the world have already done, including 29 of 30 oecD coun- tries — is the single biggest thing that british c olumbia can do to stimulate the economy and create jobs. M.

Farnworth: The taxpayers of this province are paying for a Minister of t ourism who sits silently in this h ouse. h e's very brave outside the h ouse, like on nl r adio this morning where he's saying that the fears of the restaurant industry are unfounded, that he's going to find that the restaurant industry's concerns are nowhere near as drastic as the industry thinks. That's what the Minister of t ourism said this morning.

Will the Minister of t ourism have the courage of his convictions, have the guts to stand in this h ouse and tell the public of british c olumbia why those restaurant owners are wrong, why they shouldn't be worried and what studies he's done to back up the words that he said this morning on radio? [1410] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just to remind members…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. no personal attacks, please. Hon. C.

Hansen: i've had the pleasure of meeting with the tourism industry since the middle of July. i've also had the opportunity to meet with representatives of the restaurant associations on several occasions. We've had good, constructive dialogue. We've certainly talked about the impact that hS t is going to have on those industries. When i hear news reports of a representative of that sector talking about how this is going to be an additional 12 percent tax, it sort of underscores for me some of the hyperbole and exaggeration that exist out there around the impact of the tax.

When i hear the member from Vancouver- burrard talking about this increasing costs by 46 percent, it shows me either that there is some pretty faulty research or that he simply doesn't understand how the tax will work. We continue to work with the industry representatives, and we will certainly look at what measures we can take to make sure that they continue to have dynamic and thriving industries, particularly as we go into the 2010 o lympic and Paralympic Games and reap the benefits of a new, energized economy that will flow afterwards.

Go VernMent action on Wo Men 'S e Qualit Y an D Violence a Gain St abori Ginal Wo Men M. Mungall: t oday the West c oast l egal e ducation and a ction Fund released its report on b.c.'s compli- ances with the un convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women. a few of the grades: missing and murdered aboriginal women, F; women in housing, D; women in social assistance, D; child care, D. This government offers little — or even detrimental — action for women's equality in b.c. h ow does this gov- ernment justify it? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. M. Mungall: h on.

Speaker, i would gladly ask the minister of women's equality, but that ministry was cut in 2001. So taking that into consideration, let's pick one of the topics: missing and murdered aboriginal women. We'll direct that question to the Solicitor General. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. K.

Heed: i want to advise the member opposite that investigations that are ongoing in matters in front of the courts…. i will not comment on it. but i will also advise members that our primary goal has always been to ensure that we have front-line ser - vices available for people who become victims of vio- lence in society. a s mentioned, we are investing $43 million into programs to ensure that we have victim assistance available, whether it's members from a disen- franchised group in life or who fall victims of violence. Mr. Speaker: Member, there were two questions.

The first one wasn't answered, and the second was a second question. So on to the next person, please. interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member.

british c olumbia Debates982 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 Wo Men'S acceSS to leGal aiD S er ViceS K. Corrigan: The report card gave the government an F — an F for failure to ensure that women have access to our justice system. Why has this government gutted legal aid services and allowed critical services like the Family l aw c linic to close their doors? Hon. M. de Jong: a ctually, the member is incorrect. Funding for legal aid services from the government has actually gone up again this year. [1415] That is not to say that there aren't challenges experi- enced by the legal aid society.

Their other sources of funding, relying as they do on investment incomes driven by interest rates, are challenged this year. That's why the government, in addition to provid- ing that legal aid support, has pilot projects in place in communities like Duncan, for example, and in the Fraser Valley. They're designed to work with women, work with victims of domestic violence, and to ensure that the support is there and the training for prosecu- tors who can actually specialize in the prosecution of domestic violence crimes is there. We will continue to provide that support where it's needed and when it's needed. Mr.

Speaker: The member has a supplemental. K. Corrigan: This report, which is generated by West c oast leaF , a highly respected organization, lays the blame at the feet of this government. Just this year the Family l aw c linic was axed, dispute resolution referrals eliminated, extended services for family law cases sus- pended and the l egal Services Society gutted. c an the a ttorney General please explain how dis- mantling the legal aid system will improve outcomes for women, particularly single parents who desperately need these services? Hon.

M. de Jong: i think it's an important subject. i think it's a vitally important subject. but i also think that the member as a legislator and an occupant of a seat in this chamber has a duty to check her facts. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, a ttorney. Hon. M. de Jong: She chooses either deliberately or inadvertently to bring information to this h ouse and present facts that are not facts. The funding for the l egal Services Society from gov- ernment has actually increased. n ow, that may not fit within the parameters of the political story that the member chooses to advocate, but it is a fact.

There is still much work to be done. That's why we con- tinue to have the pilot projects. That's why we continue to ensure that there are trained prosecutors specialized in addressing the needs of the victims of domestic vio- lence. We have done so in the past, and we will continue to do so in the future. action S o F ol YMPic GaMeS S ecurit Y unit L. Krog: c hris Shaw is a professor of ophthalmology at the u niversity of british c olumbia and an outspoken critic of the o lympic Games.

Friends and former family are being questioned by members of the Vancouver 2010 integrated Security u nit about Professor Shaw's activities and associations. Professor Shaw is exercising his democratic rights in criticizing a major government expenditure. We all enjoy the protection of the c harter of r ights and Freedoms, so my question to the a ttorney General is simply this. Does he think it appropriate to send the rcMP out to harass the government's critics? Hon. K. Heed: The province of british c olumbia, in partnership with the federal government, is committed to delivering a safe and secure o lympic Games.

We cer- tainly believe that every person has a right in c anada to peaceful protests, and i believe the police understand and will respect those rights. a s you can imagine, this is a very, very large task that the rcMP have to ensure a safe and secure games in c anada.

Y ou can imagine the volume of information that comes in with respect to security around such a large event. [1420] The rcMP are engaging with security experts from all over the world, gathering that intelligence. it's incumbent upon them to check out each and every lead or piece of intelligence they have to ensure that we have those safe and secure games in british c olumbia. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. L. Krog: h on. Speaker, that is an outrageous state- ment in response to a clear breach of trust. Danika Surm is a 24-year-old student. h as she been involved in any anti-poverty protests? n o.

"h ave you been involved in any type of street protests?" "n o." "h ave you ever been arrested?" "n o." Y et two — two — members questioned this woman about her association with a citizen who is protesting the o lympic Games. We're coming to n ovember 11. is that member going to go to his r emembrance Day ceremonies and shake the hands of the veterans and compliment them for

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 983 what they did, while his government is engaged in this kind of activity? i want to hear from this minister who in this government authorized these investigations and the harassment of ordinary citizens. Hon. K. Heed: a s you can understand — and i hope the members opposite can understand — the rc MP have a very, very important function. could you imagine if they didn't check out the information that they get?

What would happen if something occurred during the o lympic Games which they had the duty and ability to prevent? o ur goal is to ensure that we have those safe and secure games. i expect law enforcement to do whatever they can to ensure that security and to prevent incidents from taking place. in order for us to have safe and secure games, we will balance the individual rights of people in british c olumbia, people in c anada, with ensuring that we provide safety and security to people in our province, to athletes that are coming and to visitors that are coming to our country. if people in the public have a complaint with respect to the rcMP or members of the integrated unit from a municipal agency, there is a process for them to take their complaint to.

S. Simpson: Professor Shaw is a peaceful critic of the o lympics and has been a critic for some period of time and has always done that in a peaceful manner. There are letter writers, writers of letters to the editor, writers of articles. These are the people who we now are discov- ering that the integrated Security u nit is visiting — vis- iting their families, visiting their friends and inquiring about these people in this manner that is a breach of their civil liberties. The b.c. civil l iberties a ssociation, among others, has raised this concern. My question is to the minister.

Does the minister sup- port these actions, or will the minister tell the integrated Security u nit to respect people's civil rights and back down? Hon. K. Heed: This government continues to ensure a safe and secure o lympic Games for c anada. We do not direct the rcMP on what they should be doing. but i can assure you that we do not intend in any way what- soever to abuse people's rights. We will act within the law, and that's my expectations of the police that are out there to ensure that we have the safe and secure games. [end of question period.] Orders of the Day Hon.

M. de Jong: in c ommittee a, c ommittee of Supply — for the information of members, the estimates of the Ministry of t ransportation and infrastructure; and in this chamber, continued committee stage debate on bill 6, the insurance a mendment a ct. Mr. Speaker: h on. Members, just before we get started, one member failed to introduce his petition. [1425] Petitions S. Simpson: i'm pleased to present a petition with 370 signatories from the r aise the r ates campaign, looking to increase income assistance, end eligibility barriers for welfare, increase the minimum wage and build some affordable housing.

Committee of the Whole House bi ll 6 — in Surance aMenDMent act , 2009 (continued) The h ouse in c ommittee of the Whole (Section

b) on bill 6; l. r eid in the chair. The committee met at 2:28 p.m. on

section 14 (continued). B. Ralston: Just before we broke for lunch, the minis- ter had made reference to representations by the indus- try and, i think, had expressed an uncertainty as to just what representations had been made on this particular point. in o ctober 2008 the insurance bureau of c anada made a submission to the Finance c ommittee, and it was a written submission. i just want to quote the pas- sage, and this is on this issue of prescribed exclusions. "ibc recommends that the list of prescribed exclusions relating to the peril of fire, to be set as per

section 28.4(1) of the insurance a mendment a ct, include the current list of permitted exclusions set out in

section 122(1) with the addition of losses or damage resulting from terrorism and nuclear incident. ibc also strongly recommends that earthquake be added to that list of permitted fire exclusions to allow the creation of a stand-alone earthquake insurance endorsement that would incorporate coverage for both the shake and fire following an earthquake." n ow, i gather that the position of the previous Minister of Finance was that to permit what the ibc suggests would lead to concern or confusion among consumers, because they would expect that fire, regardless of the cause, would be covered. is that the reason that the minister is taking the pos- ition that he takes, when considering the comments and the representations made by the insurance bureau of c anada? [1430] Hon.

C. Hansen: The position we are taking today on this particular issue is the same position that we as a government have taken for the last number of years, so there is no change in policy as a result of this.

british c olumbia Debates984 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 The member may be referring back to a discussion paper that was put out in 2007. That was not reflecting the views or opinion of the Minister of Finance of the day, nor was it reflecting the views of government, but rather was a discussion paper and was meant to stimu- late discussion and input back to government. B. Ralston: i thank the minister for that answer and that clarification.

The insurance industry seems to be suggesting that the suggested framework, where insurers would be statutor- ily required to cover the fire peril in situations where the cause is linked to circumstances prescribed by regulation, would introduce substantial contractual uncertainty that could undermine market stability in the province. Does the minister share that concern or not? Hon. C. Hansen: a s i indicated this morning, we do plan to engage in consultations with the industry and others with regard to the regulations before they're put in place.

That would be the time when there would be an opportunity for that kind of input and discussion. B. Ralston: i want to turn now to

section 28.5. This appears to be a new definition of causes of fire. it doesn't include damage caused by contamination of radioactive material caused by fire or any other cause excluded under regulation authorized by

section 28.4(1). c an the minister explain why damage caused by contamination of radioactive material caused by fire was not included? Hon. C. Hansen: The amendments here do not change the intent of the legislation. What it does is basic- ally clarify some of the wording, but there is no change in application that would flow from these amendments. insurance coverage for radioactive materials is a very difficult area in which to insure. There are obviously fed- eral guidelines that apply with regard to how radioactive material can be used and how it needs to be cared for. Therefore, there is nothing in terms of application that changes as a result of these amendments. B. Ralston: Dealing with

section 28.6, 28.6(1)(

d) speaks of an exclusion that would apply to a person who is in a class prescribed by regulation. c an the minister advise who might fall into that class or what is contem- plated there? [1435] Hon. C. Hansen: a gain, we see this as part of the con- sumer protection measures that are being introduced in this bill today. This is a fairly significant measure which will increase the protection for a non-culpable person or parties who may otherwise be denied insurance cover - age because of the wrongdoing of another.

So it is merely there to protect the interests of a party to an insurance policy who is non-culpable in terms of an offence or an action. B. Ralston: Thank you to the minister. i think i under- stand the general explanation. in describing members of that class…. h ow would that be done? it seems that in the discussion paper there's a reference to innocent co-insured, and i think there are two examples given in the paper — a child causing damage and, i think, an abusive spouse. it says that in Washington State, a co-insured spouse cannot be denied coverage if they file a police report.

Given that those were raised in the discussion paper, are those the sorts of examples that are contemplated might be included in this class prescribed by regulation, or am i completely off base? Hon. C. Hansen: in terms of the regulations that may flow from this section, we'll certainly be open to input that will come from the industry as to whether or not there should be exclusions or what those exclusions should be, if there are exclusions. but none of that has been determined at this point and would certainly be a subject of the consultation process leading up to the regulations. B.

Ralston: Well, i certainly appreciate all of that. but surely, by including this provision that offers the pros- pect of consultation, there must have been something that is contemplated and some — if i can put it this way — occupants of the class, or prospective occupants of this class prescribed by regulation. c an the minister, without obviously binding himself to doing this or not, give some sense of the thinking of the government and the legislative drafters in including this

section (

d) in this amendment? Hon. C. Hansen: a t the time of drafting there are certainly some of the obvious classes that would benefit from a provision like this. a n example might be a wife or a husband in an abusive relationship who would be a co-insured yet may be totally non-culpable to

an act that may be perpetrated, as well as children who may have a benefit or financial interest in property that would be impacted. [1440] but in drafting, rather than being that specific in terms of how this might be applied, it was felt that by giving us the powers in regulation, we would certainly leave the opportunity open for us to explore other areas, as well, and other classes of individuals or entities that should be excluded under these provisions. B. Ralston: Given that this

section is about recovery by innocent persons, i suppose the concern would be: given the length a consultation might take, is there any sense of

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 985 a timeline? This act does appear to leave a lot to regulation. So it seems that when the statute comes into law, the work will begin again on another round of consultation about the shape that the regulations might take. i'm not saying that consultation isn't required, but it does seem that the opportunity to have something def- inite — particularly on this

section where it does con- cern innocent persons at law — might take an unduly long period of time. c an the minister give — i understand you can't give a firm commitment — some sense of where it might be in the list of priorities for the drafting of regulations which will flow from the passage of this statute? Hon. C. Hansen: in the absence of a specific regula- tion that would flow from this section, the provision is provided for broadly. o nce this legislation is brought into force and this

section is brought into force, that provision will be there unless there is a regulatory decision made to prescribe a particular class in the future. but should that be required, at least the legislative authority is there for it. in the meantime the provision would be there and would be in effect even prior to any regulations that may be drafted pertaining to other particular sections. So there is not a specific timeline that would apply to any particular class that would be designated under this section. B. Ralston: i thank the minister for that response. on

section 28.7, subrogation — does this amendment change any of the traditional legal operation of subroga- tion or not? Hon. C. Hansen: u nder the previous wording, the provision applied only to fire insurance. n ow it applies more broadly to all classes of insurance that are covered under this legislation.

Section 14 approved. on

section 15. B. Ralston: This

section adds some

definitions. a re there any unusual features that the minister wishes to highlight here, or is this all relatively routine? i under - stand that much of the purpose of these amendments is to bring the act, which was originally drafted in 1926, up to contemporary business standards in the insurance industry. These

definitions appear to fall into that cat- egory. but i'd just like the minister's assurance that that's what is being done here and nothing else. Hon. C. Hansen: That is what's being done. These changes really are just a part of the modernization of the act and trying to ensure that

definitions are in accord- ance with contemporary understanding. Sections 15 to 17 inclusive approved. on

section 18. [1445] B. Ralston: This

section makes what appears to be a minor amendment, striking out the words "rights and status of beneficiaries" and adding "the rights and status of beneficiaries and personal representatives as recipi- ents of insurance money." is that a reference to the wills and succession process or something else? Hon. C. Hansen: The net effect of this amendment is to add the words after beneficiaries "and personal representatives as recipients of insurance money." This is really meant to just reflect the fact that it could be individuals other than specifically beneficiaries. it could be, for example, executors. but the term "personal repre- sentatives" is defined in the

interpretation a ct and there- fore is just meant to broaden the scope of individuals to which this would apply.

Section 18 approved. on

section 19. B. Ralston: This is a proposed amendment to

section 32. it requires the insurer to issue a copy of the policy and application to the insured, and that's to be defined in distinction to the person who bought the policy. i'm advised that this is designed to cover the situation where many people have, for example, group life insur - ance that's paid for as a benefit at work through their employer. is this then a requirement that although they didn't pay for it, they're entitled to a copy, and a require- ment that a copy of the policy be given to them? is that what this is intended to do? Hon. C. Hansen: The answer is yes. B. Ralston: Then

section (

b) of the same proposed amendment sets out conditions under which the insurer is required to provide a full copy of the policy to the insured. i did refer to group insurance previously. it does then refer to it in, i think, subsection (b)(5). i take it that's consistent with what we've just dis- cussed in subsection (a) — that there is a requirement to provide an individual who is a subscriber to a group life insurance with a copy of the policy. a nd it says "any written statement or other record." i'm not sure quite what that might be, but presumably something to do with the conditions on which the policy was issued. is that correct?

Hon. C. Hansen: Y es, under subsection (5) that per - tains specifically to group insurance. information that

british c olumbia Debates986 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 may be requested, for example, may be a medical report from a medical doctor or other information that may be necessary. [1450] B. Ralston: Just so that i'm clear. There are obviously many of these group life insurance policies, and they're a common feature of conditions of employment.

Many people have them as part of the benefit package they get from their job. it would appear that it's not mandatory for the insur - ance company to issue a copy of the policy. it's just avail- able on request. in subsection (7), the insurer is entitled to charge a reasonable fee to recover its expense in fur - nishing copies other than the first copy furnished. is it intended to set those fees by regulation as well then? Hon. C.

Hansen: it would be the insurer that would determine what a reasonable cost would be to cover those expenses. if there was a dispute, then certainly the insured would have the ability to go to the regulator.

Section 19 approved. on

section 20. B. Ralston: This proposed

section amends

section 33 and strikes out the words "the circumstances in which the contract lapses and…." i understand that is infor - mation that was required to be stated in the policy. c an the minister explain why it's proposed to strike out that phrase? Hon. C. Hansen: This is part of the process that we've gone through in trying to make sure that our legislation is harmonized with that of a lberta. This actual change allows us to be consistent with the two provinces. it was deemed that that particular portion of the sentence was not relevant and not necessary in this legislation.

Therefore, the easiest solution to making sure that the two pieces of legislation were consistent with each other was to remove that particular

section out of this section. B.

Ralston: Well, i appreciate that the goal is con- sistency. but if the provision in the other province is not particularly helpful or well written, it would seem not really worth the effort to make it consistent with some- thing that's not doing the job. i suppose what i'd seek from the minister is that not only is it consistent with a lberta, but that the a lberta provision that consistency is aimed with is clear and achieves the legislative purpose. i understand that the second part of the paragraph will read: "the conditions on which the contract may be reinstated if it lapses." That will be required to be stated in the policy. is that the ultimate grammatical result — that the legislation in both provinces will say that then? [1455] Hon.

C. Hansen: a s was pointed out to me, in the case of life insurance, there are many policies which in fact do not and cannot lapse if they were for policies that would not have circumstances where they could be ter - minated or allowed to lapse. So by having this reference in the legislation, it was indicated that that could lead to confusion over its

interpretation. Therefore, it is felt that that particular portion of the sentence was not necessary as it pertained to this class of insurance.

Section 20 approved. on

section 21. B. Ralston: This provision requires that group insurance contracts set out provisions that would remove or restrict the right to designate beneficiaries. c an the minister advise of the circumstances where that might arise and why it's necessary to advise in writing of that? Hon. C. Hansen: one example would be an insur - ance policy for a key person in a company's organization. it could be a senior-level executive where the company would actually take out a life insurance policy, but it would be payable to the company.

Therefore, in circumstances such as that, it would be appropriate to limit the ability to change a beneficiary of an insurance policy because of the basic purpose and intent of the policy in the first place. B. Ralston: Sometimes examples are much more helpful to understand the point, although i would think that in that case, that would be an individual policy rather than a group insurance policy, given that it would be crafted to ensure the life of a single individual rather than a group of individuals that are typically covered by a group insurance policy. in

section (

g) it speaks of contracts replacing each other and whether the beneficiary designations in the old contract would apply in the new contract. That would be required to be set out in writing. is that correct? Hon. C. Hansen: Y es. B. Ralston: The final subclause here. This appears to follow the general scheme of the legislation that speaks of limitations by referring to the insurance a ct rather than to a specific limitation period, such as two years. i think that's fairly apparent, but i just wanted to confirm that. Hon. C. Hansen: This is totally consistent with the other

section that we discussed earlier this morning, and the wording is the same.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 987

Section 21 approved. on

section 22. B. Ralston: This is a requirement of group insurance certificates requiring the major terms and coverages of the policy but not a full copy of the policy. c an the min- ister advise why he's decided not to require the provi- sion of a full copy of the policy? [1500] Hon. C.

Hansen: in some cases providing every member of a group plan access to all of the paper docu- ment could be a fairly substantive piece. in the case of group coverage, what we're saying is that they would have access to the group certificate, and then, as is provided for in one of the other sections we discussed, would have access to the overall policy as it pertains to them. but it's not necessarily the whole policy if there are sections of the group policy that would not neces- sarily pertain to, say, that particular group of employees.

Section 22 approved. on

section 23. B. Ralston: This proposed amendment contains a very interesting term that calls for the termination of the contract by the court where a person believes that their life or health is at risk by the life insurance remaining in place. c an the minister perhaps give an example where such an application might be made to the court? i can imagine a few, but i hesitate to suggest them without the benefit of the kind of advice that perhaps the minister has access to. Hon. C. Hansen: This

section provides for a new mechanism to protect insurance persons in some very rare circumstances. c urrently a life-insured individ- ual who is not the policyholder cannot cancel the life insurance policy even though the policy owner may no longer have an insurable interest in that person's life. This situation may arise, for example, upon termination of employment or upon a divorce. The person whose life is insured may feel uncomfortable or even at per - sonal risk knowing that their death will benefit another individual. Sections 23 to 26 inclusive approved. on

section 27. B. Ralston: This is the issue about duty to disclose to an insurance company on a medical examination. it sometimes arises in litigation where the insurance company will claim that the lack of full disclosure by the person who bought the insurance should lead to the insurance company not being obliged to pay on the policy. c an the minister explain what the consequence of these changes is? This would seem to be a relatively important amendment given that it concerns, ultimately, the validity of the policy that the insured is purchasing. [1505] Hon. C.

Hansen: This is to bring greater clarity to the language that currently exists in the statutes. For example, if the misrepresentation only occurred with relation to an application for extra coverage, then that misrepresentation should not negate the entire policy but rather should impact on the extra coverage that was being applied for at the time. So what this is doing is making it clear and ensuring fairness to consumers. B.

Ralston: Perhaps if i might try an example, just to make sure i've understood this. if a person, say, had some term insurance on their life and they wanted to increase it from — i don't know — $250,000 to $500,000…. They underwent a medical examination. it was deemed that they didn't make full disclosure of a pre-existing medical condition during that examination. That might negate the increase in the value of the policy from $250,000 to $500,000, but the original policy would still stand. is that what's intended? Hon. C. Hansen: The member is right. Sections 27 to 29 inclusive approved. on

section 30. B. Ralston: This amendment allows someone's cover- age to be reinstated automatically if they make a pre- mium payment within 30 days after their 30-day grace period. i understand that's in

section 68 of the bill. is that what this is intended to clarify? Hon. C. Hansen: That certainly is part of this par - ticular section, but it also, in addition, clarifies that the

section does not apply to a creditor's group insurance. it also limits the maximum interest that may be charged by an insurer to the amount determined in accordance with the c ourt order interest a ct. So the member is right. Part of it does pertain to automatic reinstatement within a 30-day grace period.

Section 30 approved. on

section 31. B. Ralston: This

section deals with the termination and replacement of group policies, and that would appear

british c olumbia Debates988 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 to be a circumstance where the employer might change insurers for the purposes of providing group insurance. i understand that it prohibits exclusions based on non- attendance and work on the date the replacing contract comes into effect. is that correct? Hon. C. Hansen: Y es.

Section 31 approved. on

section 32. B. Ralston: This is something that we'd referred to ear- lier — insurers' right to restrict the designation of bene- ficiaries. This

section appears to contemplate regulations that would limit that ability of an insured to restrict the designation of beneficiaries. a gain, this is an area that i presume there would be some consultation with the industry and consumers' associations, presumably. c an the minister advise what the thinking of the min- istry is on the direction that these regulations might go? [1510] Hon. C. Hansen: i think, as the member noted at the outset of the discussion, that this changes some legisla- tive provisions that go back three-quarters of a century.

So while we are trying to put in language that deals with some specific issues — and we talked earlier, again, about the key person insurance within a corporation — we want to ensure that the language is broad enough that it would give us flexibility in the future to deal with changing cir- cumstances, should they arise. B. Ralston: o n this section, as i read subsection (6), it requires an insurer to tell the member of a group contract whether their designated beneficiaries are still eligible under the replacement contract.

So if the change is made, and there is a change in beneficiaries, that has to be com- municated to the insured. is that correct? Hon. C. Hansen: Y es. Sections 32 and 33 approved. on

section 34. B. Ralston: This probably involves some overlap with the statute that my colleague from n anaimo was discuss- ing, the wills and succession act. it appears to deal with wills that designate a beneficiary but are declared invalid. c an the minister explain the effect of this amendment? is it a change in response to litigation, and what ultim- ately is the legislative goal here? Hon. C. Hansen: There is no substantive change as a result of this. it is really just to make sure that the word- ing is clarified.

The only change is actually under subsec- tion (4) where the word "subsequently" has been…. it used to say: "…purports to be a will and subsequently the instrument if valid as a will…." So this change is simply to strike out the word "subsequently" and insert the words "if it were valid as a will." So it's a very minor change that has no substantive change and is really just to make sure that it is clearer than was previously worded. B. Ralston: Just confirming, then, that this is some- thing that's a drafter's choice rather than something that's arisen out of litigation that generated an ambigu- ous

interpretation. Hon. C. Hansen: Y es. Sections 34 to 36 inclusive approved. on

section 37. B. Ralston: This section, looking at it, appears to clarify how insurance money payable to a beneficiary cannot be claimed by creditors to pay off the debts of the insured. is that the purpose of this amendment? Hon. C. Hansen: The member is correct. That is the intention of this entire section. The amendment that is being made is simply wording in subsection (2). a gain, like the previous

section that we discussed, it is not a substantive change, but rather, as the member rephrased it, it's a drafter's choice in terms of appropriate language that would ensure more clarity. Sections 37 to 40 inclusive approved. on

section 41. B. Ralston: The only substantive change that i'm able to locate in this is in subsection (3.1) that says that if an interest in a contract is assigned to a person, that assign- ment takes precedence over beneficiaries that were designated before the assignment except if the benefici- ary is designated irrevocable. is that correct? [1515] Hon. C. Hansen: Y es. it is simply to clarify the existing

interpretation. Sections 41 to 44 inclusive approved. on

section 45. B. Ralston: This

section 45 amends

section 63 and appears to establish that the payment of insurance pro- ceeds must follow the law of the jurisdiction in which the

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 989 insurer was resident on the date of their death, even if it is outside british c olumbia and even if their benefici- aries or representatives are resident in british c olumbia. is that correct? Hon. C. Hansen: This is a relatively minor change, and it's simply to make it clear that the payout is in terms of where the individual is resident as opposed to where the individual is domiciled, so it is to provide that clarity. Sections 45 and 46 approved. on

section 47. B. Ralston: This concerns the issue of limitation of actions. it increases various limitations from one to two years, and there appear to be some changes in the language describing the commencement of a limitation period. c an the minister confirm that that is the inten- tion and effect of these proposed amendments? Hon. C.

Hansen: The original language that exists now actually goes back in the context of simply life insurance where the commencement of the period is usually determined, whether the person is alive or not alive. in the case of things like disability insurance, then obviously commencement can become a different issue completely, so this is to provide that clarity. Sections 47 to 50 inclusive approved. on

section 51. B. Ralston: This clarifies the language of

section 72, and i think this is something that was dealt with in the revisions to the wills and succession act. When simul- taneous deaths occur, there's a deeming provision as to which death is presumed to have occurred first. Does this bring about any substantive change in

section 72? in my reading, it doesn't, but i just wanted to confirm that. Hon. C. Hansen: n o substantive change. Sections 51 to 55 inclusive approved. on

section 56. B. Ralston: This

part changes a number of

definitions relating to accident and sickness insurance. This appears to be consistent with the general thrust of updating the language and

definitions in contrast to the previous act and make it consistent with modern insurance products. [1520] o ther than that wish to update the

definitions and pro- vide new ones where they're required, is there anything else that is achieved in this proposed amendment? Hon. C. Hansen: This is to ensure that it's consistent with the life

section

definitions that we had covered pre- viously. but there is no substantive change that comes out of this other than a modernization of some of the language. B. Ralston: Perhaps it's worth noting and just con- firming that the more expansive and modern definition of "spouse" that's included here, et al. "means a person who (

a) is married to another person, or (

b) is living and cohabit- ing with another person in a marriage-like relationship, including a marriage-like relationship between persons of the same gender" — which would appear to be consistent with contemporary practice. is that correct? Hon. C. Hansen: Y es.

Section 56 approved. on

section 57. B. Ralston: it creates a new subsection 81.1, which says: "Sections 10 and 11 apply to contracts of accident and sickness insurance." o ther than that, is there any other change that's included in the proposed amend- ments in this section? Hon. C. Hansen: n o. Sections 57 and 58 approved. on

section 59. B. Ralston: This is a very detailed

section giving details on issuing a copy of the full policy to people who are insured, including under group policies in which the person who has purchased the policy is different from those who are covered. in the discussion paper there was some substantial dis- cussion, and proposal 7 set out some recommendations. in my reading of it, these proposed amendments appear to be consistent with proposal 7. These provisions are, of course, consistent with what we've discussed previously on this topic elsewhere in the act. is there anything else that the minister wishes to add by way of comment on this amendment? Hon.

C. Hansen: This is actually quite a significant expansion of the rights of the insured when it comes to the accident and sickness sections. Previously it had simply just said that an insurer entering into a contract must issue a policy. n ow it clearly sets out what the rights of the insured are and what they can expect. a lso, it makes this particular

section and this language totally consistent with the language that was in the life insur - ance

section as well.

british c olumbia Debates990 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009

Section 59 approved. on

section 60. B. Ralston: i just wanted to confirm and draw to the minister's attention that there's a reference to lim- itation periods, but the formulation — the one that appears elsewhere in the act that we previously dis- cussed — refers the reader to the insurance a ct rather than stating what the limitation period actually is. is that correct? Hon. C. Hansen: Y es. i hope we get full marks for consistency here. Sections 60 to 64 inclusive approved. on

section 65. B. Ralston: i'm advised that in the revisions that have taken place here, condition 12 is omitted. i'm wondering if the minister can advise why that might be so. That is a reference to limitation of actions. [1525] Hon. C. Hansen: This provision actually gets replaced by other provisions, one of which we have already come to. There's another provision that comes up later in the bill that replaces this provision that is being eliminated. Sections 65 and 66 approved. on

section 67. B. Ralston: i just wanted to confirm that

section 91.1 refers to limitation periods much in the same manner as elsewhere, which we've discussed previously, and also defines the commencement of limitation periods for the same reasons that the minister set out earlier in relation to another section. Hon. C. Hansen: Y es. Sections 67 to 70 inclusive approved. on

section 71. B. Ralston: This

section appears to mirror the one we discussed previously, where there's a provision to apply to the court where a person may believe that the con- tinuation of the insurance policy may endanger their health or life. is that intended as a companion provision in the case of this type of insurance? [c. t revena in the chair.] Hon. C. Hansen: The answer is yes. Sections 71 and 72 approved. on

section 73. B. Ralston: i just wanted to confirm that this change parallels the previous one we discussed about the duty to disclose and that it's included for the same reasons. This is for this type of insurance as well? Hon. C. Hansen: Y es. Sections 73 to 76 inclusive approved. on

section 77. B. Ralston: This relates to group policies, termination and replacement. it appears to mirror the same provi- sions in the life insurance section. o ther than that, i don't see any other differences. c an the minister con- firm that? Hon. C. Hansen: Y es, this is intended to parallel the provision that's in the life section. Sections 77 to 83 inclusive approved. on

section 84. B. Ralston: We'd spoken of these parallel provisions earlier — the priority of an assignee over an irrevocably designated beneficiary. i just wanted to confirm. in my reading, it parallels the amendments proposed in the previous section. i just wanted to confirm that that was correct. Hon. C. Hansen: Y es.

Section 84 approved. on

section 85. [1530] B. Ralston: This

section appears to describe insur - ance money that's exempt from seizure. c an the minister explain how this

section would operate in practice? Hon. C. Hansen: This is to protect from seizure pay- outs that would be designated specifically to a spouse or a child or another family member, for example. This is not a substantive change from the previous wording, but rather, there are some very minor wording changes that are really just meant to clarify.

Section 85 approved.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 991 on

section 86. B. Ralston: These changes relate to the assignment of insurance contracts. They appear to parallel amendments made to sections 55 and 57 of

part 3 by sections 38 to 40 of the bill in every respect. i just wanted to confirm that that is the case. Hon. C. Hansen: Y es. Sections 86 to 90 inclusive approved. on

section 91. B. Ralston: This

section relates to minors, authoriz- ing the insurer to pay money to a minor's trustee or to a public trustee or guardian unless the minor has reached 18 years of age. i take it that's an amendment, given the age of the previous act, that changes the age of majority. is that correct? Hon. C.

Hansen: if the member is referring to sub- section (5), this is not a new provision to the legislation. it's a new location within the legislation, so it is being moved to this section. r eally, the intent, the substance of it is not a change. it still allows for a person at the age of 18 to provide a discharge, and that is a current provision. it's just a new location within the act. Sections 91 and 92 approved. on

section 93. B. Ralston:

Section 93 amends

section 113 by striking out $2,000 and substituting $10,000. That would appear to be simply a case of inflation. it concerns the amount an insurer can pay out to someone, such as a relative or care- giver, who has incurred expenses caring for the insured. o ther than that, is there anything else contemplated here? Hon. C. Hansen: This is simply to reflect the fact that a certain amount of inflation has occurred since the original $2,000 provision was put in the act. Sections 93 and 94 approved. on

section 95. [1535] B. Ralston: This appears to be a clarification, striking out the words "or at the time the action is brought" for "is so authorized at the time the action is brought." c an the minister explain what the intent of this proposed amendment is? Hon. C. Hansen: This is not a substantive change. it is merely a clarification. it is to provide that an action on an insurance contract with a british c olumbia–regulated insurer may be brought in the province regardless of where the contract was made. The only thing that has changed is the addition of the words "is so authorized." They are new to the section, but it is not a substantive change.

Section 95 approved. on

section 96. B. Ralston: This is what's described as a presumption against agency. c an the minister describe what the pur - pose of this amendment is? it appears to be clarifying the language. i presume that this might well have been the subject of litigation and appears to provide a defence to the insurance company against the actions, or not, or advice of certain employees or officers. is there anything major contemplated here, or is this just clarification? Hon. C. Hansen: The purpose of this change is to clarify that this consumer protection rule also applies to a debtor insured.

What it does is fill a gap to ensure that this protection applies to consumers of creditor's group insurance as well as consumers of other products.

Section 96 approved. on

section 97. B. Ralston: a nd just to clarify, this deals with, i sup- pose, the comments of the Supreme c ourt of c anada in kP Pacific h oldings, which gave rise to the two limita- tion periods in separate sections of the old act.

Presumably these amendments, given that they're now in the general insurance provisions, will put to rest those problems and all the comments that the Supreme c ourt of c anada said about the litigation that resulted. i think the quote was: "Surely there can be little which is less productive or more wasteful than litigation about such technicalities." This will lead to perhaps the end not of litigation but certainly litigation about these provisions. Hon. C. Hansen: That is the intent. Sections 97 to 99 inclusive approved. on

section 100. B. Ralston: This appears to give broad powers in terms of regulation. a gain, this seems to be a theme of the act. is there anything new in terms of the regulation power that the minister wishes to draw attention to in

section 100, which amends

section 192? [1540]

british c olumbia Debates992 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 Hon. C. Hansen: i think, as was indicated, this is legisla- tion that goes back many decades. This is to modernize the bill but also to modernize the regulation-making powers. So this actually gives us the regulation powers necessary to ensure that the consumer is protected properly. Sections 100 to 103 inclusive approved. on

section 104. B. Ralston: This is a consequential amendment to the Financial institutions a ct. c an the minister explain what the effect is of these proposed amendments? Hon. C. Hansen: it's been determined that this def- inition is no longer required. instead, each statute will have its own classes of insurance set out in regulation for its own purpose. a llowing the classes to be determined by regulation will enable the adoption of a nationally harmonized set of classes for regulatory purposes.

Section 104 approved. on

section 105. B. Ralston: i propose to deal with

section 80.3, "c omplaint resolution." This is something that i hope i had alerted the minister to in my discussion at second reading.

Section 80.3 imposes on insurers a mechanism for dis- pute resolution in dealing with complaints. it's not clear from the definition what type of complaints it might deal with, but it does leave discretion as to how the complaint is to be handled in the hands of the insurer, as i read it.

There's no reference in the legislation to an independent third-party ombudsman. in my discussion at second reading, i made reference to the body that is established by the c anadian insur- ance industry, which is the Gio — the General insurance ombudService. its goal is to provide consumers of car, home and business insurance in c anada with a cost-free, independent and impartial process to resolve their com- plaints. it's an independent organization and have set out there that they appear to be able to deal with most of their complaints within a very brief period of time, and anything i've been able to find out about it is that it works well. n ow, what i understand from this legislation is that it is not going to prescribe the dispute resolution process. i think, in particular, the president of the consumer association expressed concern about….

The legislative choice that's being made here, in his view, doesn't pro- vide sufficient protection for consumers who want to have a complaint decided or dealt with by the insur - ance company in a fair and efficient manner. So i think there's an opportunity for the minister to respond here and to deal with those concerns. i have heard variously, occasionally in the constituency office, where disputes arise with insurance companies…. i'm sure the minister and other members have heard that.

The ability to resolve disputes varies very much from one insurance company to another. [1545] This mechanism, the Gio , appears to offer an avenue which would, i think, satisfy most people and would be effective and particularly cost-effective for individual consumers. Hon. C. Hansen: if the member actually looks for - ward to

section 106, where there are amendments to

section 289, and if you look at (p.3), which is a new pro- vision, it says that the l ieutenant-Governor-in-c ouncil has the power to make regulations "requiring an insurer to be a member of a prescribed organization to deal with complaints that are not dealt with to the satisfaction of complainants under

section 80.3," which is the one that the member was just referring to. So there is that subse- quent avenue of appeal. There are actually two bodies in c anada that provide an ombuds service pertaining to insurance. The General insurance ombudService — the Gio as it's referred to — is a well-respected and effective consumer complaint resolution organization.

The federal government requires federally regulated insurers to belong to the Gio. i under- stand that a lberta is actually also considering the Gio as an ombuds service provider for its local insurers. h owever, the Gio has been established to resolve dis- putes only relating to property and casualty insurance. a parallel organization, the c anadian l ife and h ealth insurance ombudService, assists consumers with con- cerns and complaints about life and health insurance products.

There are other dispute resolution services available as well. if there are several qualified organizations pro- viding similar service, it is possible that they will all be prescribed. The regulation powers provided for in

section 106 would allow for that. B. Ralston: if i could just summarize what i take the minister to be saying. i want him to correct me if i'm wrong, obviously. n o choice has been made as to which agency will be selected. There may be a number of agencies that would fall into the category under the suc- ceeding

section — i think,

section 106 — about being a prescribed organization. i suppose i want to express the concern that if there's a plethora of organizations or an organization springs up to deal with the disputes that arise in this jurisdiction, it may be unnecessary and redundant, given that there appear to be organizations that are very effective and are already in existence. From the perspective of the consumer, i suppose that what one would want would be one place to go with one

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 993 speedy, effective and particularly cost-effective method of resolving disputes. That would certainly be in the interest of the consumer and, i suppose, ultimately in the interest of the insurance company in that fewer dis- gruntled customers probably means more business in the long run. So besides offering the prospect of some consultation and some powers under regulation that may be exer - cised at a future date, what commitment will the min- ister make to consumer protection in this area now as opposed to down the road? Hon. C.

Hansen: o ur commitment is to ensure that there is solid consumer protection provided in this legisla- tion, that there are avenues to resolve disputes between the insurers and the insured, and that there are appropriate avenues to resolve disputes that could arise. This provision in the legislation gives us the flexibility to make sure that we pick the best organization or organ- izations to ensure that those objectives can be met. but at this time, no precise determination has been made as to which organizations would be called upon to provide that service. B.

Ralston: i understand the flexibility that regula- tion confers upon the government, and it enables per - haps a more measured decision about choice. but by not making a choice now, i'm not sure that the signal being sent is a very reassuring one. [1550] i accept that the minister is concerned in a general sense about consumer protection, but this is an oppor - tunity to designate a couple of organizations — the most effective ones — in the legislation.

That opportunity is not being taken. i suppose the assurance that i would look for would be: what is the reasonable time frame that the minister expects to come to a decision to designate an organiza- tion, or more than one, to deal with consumer com- plaints arising against insurance companies? Hon. C. Hansen: We feel that the flexibility that this provides is important. i think if we were to name a specific organization in the legislation, we might find ten years from now that either that may not continue to be the most appropriate organization or there may be a better one.

So it gives the ability to make those changes as may be necessary in the future. in terms of timing, we will be going out consulting on these, as i indicated. My hope is that we would be able to have regulation in place that would pertain to this certainly within the next 12 months. but i think a lot depends on what kind of feedback and timeline would come out of the consultation process and how soon we could put this in place. B.

Ralston: Will the minister then confirm a com- mitment that every provincially incorporated insurance company under the changes incorporated here and operating in b.c. and a lberta or incorporated in a lberta and operating here will be required to be a member of a prescribed organization to deal with complaints? if the minister can give that commitment, i think it would be an important one to give while we're discuss- ing this legislation. Hon. C.

Hansen: There is certainly the intent that there would be that kind of consistency. but in addition, if i could point out that the requirement for a complaint resolution process or procedures is not…. There are exceptions. For example, a mutual company where you've got a group of farmers who are providing insurance. They meet regularly, and it is a cooperative decision process. We would not necessarily require a specific complaint process where there's that kind of structure. B. Ralston: Just another comment on the Gio that was referred to, the General insurance ombudService.

The minister said that it was designed to deal with feder- ally chartered and regulated companies. i understand — and i'm looking on their website — that in a lberta only the Gio helps policyholders resolve complaints about auto premiums in accordance with provincial legislation. o bviously, a lberta is very fre- quently a touchstone here. The Gio has come to an agreement, apparently, with the province of a lberta to deal with complaints about auto premiums pursuant to provincial legislation.

So it would seem that the advice that the Gio would not be appropriate may be…. c ertainly in the case of a lberta, there appeared to be an exception, and there may be an opportunity to designate that here. [1555] i'm wondering if the minister has any comments or whether he'd simply like to take that under advisement based on what i've said about what's on the Gio website. Hon. C. Hansen: This legislation that we have before us in this h ouse is the same as has been tabled in the a lberta l egislature. So the provisions are the same.

Just as we will be looking for the appropriate organization or organizations to handle consumer complaints, a lberta will be going through the same process, and an organiza- tion like Gio would certainly be one of those potential organizations. Sections 105 to 112 inclusive approved. on

section 113. B. Ralston: This says simply that the act will come into force by regulation of the l ieutenant-Governor-in-

british c olumbia Debates994 t uesday, o ctober 6, 2009 c ouncil. is there a target date for the coming into force of this legislation given that it's about to pass? Hon. C. Hansen: The answer is no. There is not a target date at this point. The industry has indicated that they feel there is considerable work that needs to be done with regard to the regulations that need to be developed and other aspects of this. So we are not anticipating that this would be brought into force in the near future because of the amount of work that would still need to be done on the regulatory side. B.

Ralston: i appreciate it's difficult to give an esti- mate, but i'm going to ask anyway. Prospective date within a year, 18 months, two years…? in the minister's mind, what's the realistic target that the ministry has set in its workplan to achieve this? Hon. C. Hansen: i think in the member's question he indicated a year to two years, and i think the appropriate answer is thereabouts. t itle approved. Hon. C. Hansen: i move that the committee rise and report the bill complete without amendment. Motion approved. The committee rose at 4 p.m. The h ouse resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Report and Third Reading of Bills bill 6 — inS urance aMenDMent act, 2009 bill 6, insurance a mendment a ct, 2009, reported complete without amendment, read a third time and passed. Hon. G. Abbott: i call committee stage debate of bill 8, intituled Strata Property a mendment a ct, 2009. Committee of the Whole House bi ll 8 — Strata Pro Pert Y aMenDMent act, 2009 The h ouse in c ommittee of the Whole (Section

b) on bill 8; c. t revena in the chair. The committee met at 4:03 p.m.

Section 1 approved. on

section 2. S. Simpson: c ould the minister tell us what kinds of resolutions or expectations there are that would need to be adopted before that first annual general meeting, which would require this particular amendment? Hon. R. Coleman: First of all, to my left — just so i introduce my staff — is Jill Sinkwich, the manager of financial and corporate

section policy branch, and on my right is Molly h arrington, one of my assistant deputy ministers in the Ministry of h ousing and Social Development.

Section 11 provides that in the period before the first annual general meeting — and this is the

section we're amending — w

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1006pm-02
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1006pm 02
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0736a0b525e4e10f2726c5b68b974c9515aa6406

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