Manitoba Hansard — 11 April 1975 (Sitting 44, 30th Legislature, 2nd Session)

30-2-44

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2 :30 o'clock, Friday, April 11, 1975 INTRODUCTIO N OF GUESTS 1207 MR. CHAIRMAN: Before we proceed this afternoon I'd like to draw the attention of the Honourable Members to the Speaker's Gallery, where we have 15 students from Bemidji, Minnesota, the Senior Class, under the direction of Mr. Skinner and Mrs. Herington. This group is the guests of the Honourable Speaker of the Chamber. On behalf of all the honourable members I bid you welcome to the Chamber. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY - EDUCATION MR. CHAIRMAN: Resolution 49 (a) (1) the Honourable Minister of Ed ucation. MR.

HANUSCHAK: Prior to breaking for the lunch hour I had indicated that I wanted to reply to the Honourable Member for Riel, to his questions, and he was particularly concerned about our Francaise program in the Manitoba schools. He stressed his concern and desire that it be one on a voluntary basis without any element of compulsion to it and that rather than applying any compulsion, rather apply encouragement in the growth and development of it. And I would like to assure the honourable member that that is exactly the lines along which the program is developing, the program under Bill 113.

Whatever the Federal Government is doing with its Civil Service staff - I don't know if that's really a subject for debate in this House and I doubt if it is - but the two are quite separate and apart and the program that we are developing is on a voluntary basis in co-operation with the communities within which the program is being offered. Now this, Mr. Chairman, is the first opportunity that I'm having to report to the House on the progress of the program and I would like to take a couple of minutes to do so.

The objectives of the program are threefold: One, to develop a bilingual education program for all Manitoba children who desire it. And I wish to underline the phrase "who desire it" because that we do feel is the key to the successful development and establishment of it.

And to do that, of course to develop the resources that will be required to provide a meaningful educa - tion program in the French language and with the resources to maintain within the framework of the Department of Education and to assist the school divisions, the teaching institutions in developing an effective administrative system that would be adapted to the needs of such a pro gram. And it should also be mentioned, Mr.

Chairman, that along with doing that, it also involves negotiation with the Federal Government to obtain its support and there is provision for federal recovery to a maximum of 50 percent of all new development programs, and that is under negotiation.

The program is composed of three main areas of activities: One, that could be titled "Development", and this area of activity is designed in line with the long-term objectives which we wish to achieve in the hope of satisfying - and also I should add it's being designed in the hope of satisfying the immediate and the short term needs along the road of striving to achieve the long-term goals and objectives.

Examples of such projects are: We are com pleting the development of curriculum of all subjects taught in French and we are assisting in adapting this curriculum to the needs of children in the classroom, especially those who in their earlier years of school may not have had the opportunity of benefitting from a Francaise program.

Also in designing teacher training projects and in-service training projects with respect to matters such as fluency of expression, new curriculum information and so forth;. and the preparation and development of teaching aids, library services and community schools projects designed to extend the curriculum aspects to the out-of-school community, to the family, to the community at large in line with what the Honourable Member for Riel had indi cated this morning, that the program should, wherever there should be an indication of such a desire, that it should expend beyond the children of school age and it should be set up in a man ner in which all those who wish to benefit from it would be able to do so.

The second area of activity within the French

section is diagnosis, measurement, evalua tion of the program. This area of activity is designed to help identify objectively the needs of the population of Manitoba. Some examples of what is being done in this area: A study of the academic achievement of children in Francaise programs right through, across all grades; a survey of attitudes and opinions of adults, parents, teachers, post-secondary students and others toward it, and of course consultation with the teachers engaged in the Francaise

1208 April 11, 1975 SUP PLY - EDUCATION (MR. HANUSCHAK cont'd) .. .. . program to enable them to better perceive their own needs, to identify their own needs and accordingly to develop programs that would assist them in the continuation of development of their profes sional linguistic and cultural ability. An inventory of problems encount ered and proposed solutions concerning educational organization of the Francaise program at the school, divisional -p rovincial levels and then proceeding with solu tions to them.

And also a mea sure of the projected, of the potential clientel that we should gear ourselves up to serve. The third area of activity could be titled as "Consultation, Adviso'ry, Participation and Communication." This could perhaps be broken down into three general areas of activities: One, a technical committee of Francaise education, regrouping superintend ents and/or their representatives to ass ure efficient implementation of projects as well as maintaining proper liaison in regards to Francaise education in general . And then under the provisions of

Section 258 of The Public Schools Act the establis hment of the French language Advisory Committee which is re sponsible for the participation and communication aspects of the develop ment of Francaise education in Manitoba. And then, thirdly, to ass ure an integrated develop ment of Francaise education, integrated with English programs and mee ting the needs of a community . And in the process of doing this, Mr.

Chairman, as the Honourable Member for Riel had drawn the House's attention to a school in his constit uency, to Lavallee School, wherein he had indicated there's an interesting experiment in the delivery of an Anglophone and a Francophone program being offered, that is one of a number of experiments in the province . It's one of the alternatives in which such a program is being offered and of course there are others, there are others in the St. Boniface School Division and elsewhere .

And along with the Honourable Member for Riel the Department of Education and government will be observing its progress very carefully and so will the school division, evaluating it to determine the suit ability of the repetition or the application of that model in other parts of the province. So, that, Mr . Chairman, and then of course I should mention another. In the Winnipeg School Division, Sacre-Coeu r School which is an all French school at which the majority of the students are of a non-French background, which is very successful, which is growing.

And as far as that school is concerned, my depar tment is looking at it very cl osely, not only from a point of view to enable ourselves to offer whatever assi stance we should offer in Winnipeg School Division in the expansion of it, or the develo pment of it to meet whatever needs there may be within the Ci ty of Winnipeg, but rather to examine that style of delivery with a view to making a similar service available to more areas within Me tropolitan Winnipeg and el sewhere .

I doubt very much whether we could continue just simply allowing Sacre-Coe ur to grow and expecting all students living in whatever part of Winnipeg they may live in to travel by bus to that one school; as the popularity of it grows, the appeal of the programs grows there may be need to es tablish some additional centres elsewhere to serve the Winnipeg School Division and other school divisions, and hence there would be a need to develop some interdiv isional co-operative arrangement for the provision of such a service . And this of course would require careful study and review .

That is what is pre sently under way at the pre sent time. Just as a final comment on the Francaise program, I simply wish to add that the popularity is growing, the demand for it is growing, particularly at the eleme ntary level, in both the Francaise program and French as a second language and we're very pleased with its achieve ment and accomplishme nt up to the present time and we intend to continue developing it . MR. CHAIRMAN: The·Honourable Member for Brandon West . MR. McGI LL: Mr . Chairman, to the Minister.

I think we would all agree that it would be a significant improvement in the quality of education in this province if when students gradu ated from secondary school they were able to communicate in a second language . I think that would be a real step forward . But whether.that language be French or German or whatever, it would be a great improvement in the quality of education. Now my information is that during the past six years the Province of Manitoba has received over $7 million for this purpose from the Federal Government .

I wonder if the Minister could confirm that figure and also tell me if in addition to that $7 million how much has been contributed from the revenues of the Province of Manitoba towards bilingualism in Manitoba? MR. HANUSCHAK: Practically all, Mr. Chairman . I will attempt to find the formula that is used, but it is related to the number of students enrolled in either the Francaise

April 11, 1975 1209 SUPPLY - EDUCATION (MR. HANUSCHAK cont'd) ..... program or taking French as a second language in relation to that, and the funds are distributed to the school division with the exception of a very small portion for our administrative costs. MR. McGILL : Mr. Chairman, did you get 2 .4 million from the Federal Government last year, and how much went in from local sources? MR. HANUSCHAK: $875, OOO last year. MR. McGILL: But was it 2 .4 million from the federal sources? MR. HANUSCHAK: No, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: Resolution 49 (a) (

b) and (c)--passed, Resolution 49 (d)--The Honourable Member for Assiniboia. MR. STEVE PATRICK (Assiniboia) : Mr. Chairman, I wanted to bring something up under (d). That's Manitoba School for the Deaf. I mentioned it the other day and we 're under the topic at the present time. I indicated to the Minister that perhaps we had the best program in the country as far as getting students integrated into the present school system, and we have a serious problem where before we can do that we have to give the children the proper basics - and I'm talking particularly, Mr.

Chairman, about the kindergarten system that's carried on by the Kinsmen, by the Society for Crippled Children and Adults, and at the present time there are some 48 students in that program and their requirement is at least for one hour of personal instruction, per individual of tutoring, and at the present time they can only - I understand at the present time that they're only receiving five minutes per day per pupil in that system.

So the Minister will find himself that these students or these children will have a very difficult time to integrate into the public school system which is a good system unless he does some thing and provides the funds that are necessary to provide the extra teachers, because at the present time, they have one teacher teaching 48 students. I understand they also need speech therapists, they need an assistant social worker and they have no funds at the present time.

So certainly the system is not going to work, you will not be able to get these students into the public school system unless you give them the basic training that's required in the beginning program, in the kindergarten program.

So surely the Minister, I would have hoped, had time to check on this and see what he will be doing, because as far as I'm concerned, I think it's important that the Minister does get himself concerned with this problem, because it's not only the problem that we have shortage of staff as far as these children are concerned, but if we don't make the proper provision and proper attention at the present time they will not be able to go to the public school system and I believe they will be the losers, they will be losing an awful lot. So surely the Minister can check into this, Mr.

Speaker, and I would like to hear from him at the present time. MR. HANUSCHAK: Yes, Mr. Chairman, being mindful of the fact that it is considered preferable to offer training for all handicapped children, regardless of the nature of the handi cap, including the deaf, a training program in home environment as opposed to institutional training and hence this means arranging for the placing of the child in a normal traditional classroom.

Recognizing that, we also recognize the fact that there is the need to assist school divisions in making provisions for it, therefore there is provision within the estimates that would allow us to assist the school divisions to develop programs for hearing impaired chil dren which will make educational services for them available locally and thus minimize the institutional or away-from-home placement. In fact this has been done to some degree now with some school divisions, I believe in Assiniboine South, that some deaf children there .. .

Of course the incidence of deafness isn't all that great, just one or two, but they are accommodated in the local school. And there is also within this appropriation, there is provision - actually this will be tied in with pro fessional development of teachers - a provision for professional development programs related to resource teacher programming working with hearing-impaired children. That, too, would assist the school divisions in developing meaningful programs that they could deliver. MR. PATRICK: Mr. Chairman, perhaps I can pose a question to the Minister.

Has he got appropriations in his Budget for the Preschool Program for the Deaf? That's what con cerns me, because if he hasn't, a difficulty arises, that this is the most important step in education for these people, because if there isn't a trained specialist and if we don't provide them for the preschool program, and if he hasn't got anything in the budget the difficulty arises that we are not enabled, if we haven't got a preschool program, to get these pupils into the

1210 April 11, 1975 SUPPLY - EDUCATION (MR. PATRICK cont'd) .. .. . public school system. Unless you make proper provisions, unless you have a proper program, unless you have the teachers and the staff in the preschool program, then it's very difficult to get these students or these children integrated into our pub lic school system. And I know the Minister agrees with me that it's most important to have them in the proper home environment in the public school system.

The Mnister of H-ealth and Social Development is nodding his head and he's correct, I believe it comes under his department, but maybe the Minister of Education and the Minister of Health and Social Development can get together, because the Minister of Education seems to agree with me that it is most important that there is a preschool program in order to get these students into a public school system, and if you haven't got a proper preschool program, it's very difficult to get these students into a public system.

And the proper thing for us, and I'm sure it's the desire of the parents of these children, it is the desire of all the members in this House, that we try and get these pupils into the public school system, because that's where they have been doing quite well. And I understand the program in the public school system in Winnipeg is the best in the country, of any province in Canada. So there are some problems where we have one teacher tutoring to 48 preschool children, one tutor, and only having about five minutes to tutor each child, and I understand at least one hour is required daily.

I understand this is a serious problem so I'm posing the question to the Minister of Education, but if the Minister of Health and Social Development has that answer I'd be very much satisfied, Mr. Chairman. MR. HANUSCHAK: Mr.

Chairman, as I had indicated earlier in the debates of my Estimates, there is a special needs working group established within the department that is addressing itself to the matter of special needs of school-age children, and at that time he had raised the matter of adequate preschool training for the hearing-impaired children, and I indi cated to him at that time that I would refer that matter to the Special Needs Committee and in dealing, in assessing the school needs, that is the needs provided in the school system, what ever they may feel would be required by way of preliminary training to enable them to benefit most from the education program, then certainly there would be consultation and liaison with the Department of Health and Social Development under whose jurisdiction fall the preschool children.

So that point there certainly would be that liaison, but this is basically and essen tially a matter of responsibility of the Department of Health and Social Development. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. LA UR ENT L. DESJARDINS (Minister of Health and Social Development) (St. Boniface): Mr. Chairman, if I may. Just a word on this. I think that I certainly would agree with the remarks of my honourable friend from Assiniboia. This is something that indeed comes under our department.

The question that he mentioned is being reviewed now, but their budget is taken care of by the Society for Crippled Children, the whole budget. This is why it's being delayed at this time, the whole budget is being reviewed with the budget of the Society for Crippled Children. Now I would want to suggest to my friend, though, that he should have not only the pre school, these deaf children, but there are many others, more and more with the policies that we have now, the mentally retarded children, who are more and more sent in the community and so on, and this is fine.

The only thing is when it's time for them to go to school the schools are not too anxious now, or are not ready to accept them in the school system, and we are discussing, both the staff of the Minister of Education and my staff are negotiating, are discussing this now to bring in a solution. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Assiniboia. MR. PATRICK: Mr. Chairman, I thank the Minister of Health and Social Development, but I feel that it's important , and I'm sure that the Minister realizes that one teacher is not sufficient for 48 pupils.

I know there has been a request made for at least two more teachers and a speech therapist for these pupils, and I know that the Minister of Education just a min ute ago agreed, and I'm sure the Minister of Health and Social Development would agree with me, that in the long run the cost is going to be much less to have these students in the public school system than it would be in the private schools.

And in the long run it will be much better for these children themselves, because the ones that went through the system are doing extremely well at the present time, so there's an indication that the two schools, the two pub lic schools that are offering the programs for the deaf are extremely good schools. So I don't

April 11, 1975 1211 SUPPLY - EDUCATION (MR. PATRICK cont'd) .. ... think we should lose sight of that fact. What I'm saying, it's most important that we make provisions for the extra staff that is required, because surely if the requirement is one hour and we're giving them five minutes, it's not sufficient. I just want to make sure that both Ministers are aware of that fact. MR. CHAIRMAN: Resolution 49 (d) (1)--passed; (2)- -passed; (e) (1)--passed; (2)-- passed; (3)--passed; (e)--passed. The Honourable Member for Minnedosa. MR. DAVID BLAKE (Minnedosa): Where are we now, Mr. Chairman? MR. CHAIRMAN: (f) (1). MR.

BLAKE: I've waited for three days. I hope I didn't miss it. MR. CHAIRMAN: (f) (1). A MEMBER: (e). MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh (e)? All right. MR. BLAKE: You didn't get to (

f) yet? Mr. Chairman, I'm as anxious now as the Minister of Education is to see these Estimates passed and I hate to take up any more time, but I mentioned earlier I wanted to ask one or two questions on confluent education, and I would urge the Minister now that my questions are going to be very brief and I hope that his answers, in a very brief moment or two he can describe the program and tell me what I want to know. My first question, Mr. Chairman, on confluent education is, in a few short concise words if the Minister could tell me when it started, what it is, and how many divisions were involved.

Let's start there. Briefly. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Minister of Education. MR. HANUSCHAK: Yes. I have to select a few words which will be most descriptive of the Confluent Education Program. The program commenced in 1971 as a pilot project. It provides school systems with basic alternatives in a number of program areas which are of concern to parents, teachers, the children in today's educational system. They help the child, teacher and parent to work out meaningful relationships between the school and the community.

They have proven to be most effective and useful in brigning northern schools and communities together. They include teacher and parent training, emphasize community participation in skill development with the aim of increasing local resources and school program development. Now, the major resources of the Confluent Education Program have been expanded in shared-cost programs with Frontier School Division, and in lesser degrees with Winnipeg, Assiniboine, and South school divisions, Northern Affairs, Department of Northern Affairs and Brandon University. A MEMBER: Not Rolling River? MR.

HANUSCHAK: And via the University of Brandon - yes, Rolling River School Division. They have involved approximately 750 teachers. There's six full-time staff. Five are certified teachers with graduate training and one staff assistant. In addition, the program relies on some 30 locally-trained Confluent Education resources persons active in their own communities and professions, for assistance with weekend and summer workshops.

During the past year, in Northern Manitoba the Confluent Education Program was . . well, in both the larger and the smaller communities: The Pas, Flin Flon, Gillam, as well as Thicket Portage, Pikwitonei and Wanipigow and--(Interjection)--No, I'm sorry but it does not include Swan River. The honourable member remembers we buy milk from Swan River. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Minnedosa. MR. BLAKE: Mr. Chairman, I thank the Minister for that brief description of confluent education. I wonder if he could tell me now what the cost to date has been, in a relatively rough figure. MR.

HANUSCHAK: $160,000 a year. MR. BLAKE: $160,000 a year. I wonder, Mr. Chairman, if the Minister could now tell me - he mentioned that there were now five full-time teachers and there were six full-time staff involved, and he mentioned that there were certain resource persons involved on week ends and what not. I wonder if he could give me a brief description of what is a resource per son, and are they paid or are they strictly volunteer? MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Minister of Education. MR.

HANUSCHAK: They are paid on a fee-for-service basis, will work part time, as I have indicated, on certain days of the month and weekends, and so forth, will work under the direction of the full-time trained staff.

1212 April 11, 1975 SUPPLY - EDUCATION MR. BLAKE: I would understand then, Mr .•.. MR. HANUSCHAK: If I may add, Mr. Chairman, primarily their occupation when they are not employed in this capacity, they are teachers employed by the school division. MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would ask the Minister now, the program was on an evaluation basis in the Rolling River School Division, and I understand that it has been disbanded. Would that be because they felt that it had no value for that division, or for the pupils in that division? MR.

HANUSCHAK: I'm sorry I cannot respond to what happened in Rolling River School Division but the program has not been disbanded, it is still very much alive. MR. BLAKE: I was referring to the particular division, Mr. Chairman. It was tried as a pilot project and was discontinued about a year and a half ago, and I would assume that they felt that it had no value in that division.

I just wondered if other divisions had opted out, or if they have a chance to opt out or - I know the teachers that were involved they've all come in to Winnipeg since then, and I assume are still employed in teaching confluent education, what ever that might be. MR. HANUSCHAK: Again I must say, Mr. Chairman, that just offhand I cannot give the reasons why Rolling River School Division chose to opt out.

Any participating school division has an opportunity to opt in or out at any time that it wishes, so it could well be that with what ever purpose and objective in mind Rolling River School Division entered into it at the time that it did and having served that purpose, it chose to opt out. But this I would have to check. MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if the Minister is aware of any other divisions that might have opted out under similar circumstances, and if he could tell me what cost was shared by the division, or was the cost all borne by the Department. MR.

HANUSCHAK: The shared cost programs were, as I had indicated, Frontier, Winnipeg, Assiniboine South, Brandon University - that's at the present time - and the Department of Northern Affairs. Total costs have been carried by the program in Lord Selkirk, Brandon, Portage la Prairie, Fort Garry, St. James, Fort La Bosse, Mystery Lake, Lake shore School Division, plus the Universit y of Manitoba ilrid.Oo-za-we- kwun Centre in Rivers .. MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Just in closing I wonder if the Minister, assuming that he is still the Minister of Education next session, if he would undertake to pro vide a more comprehensive report to the House on confluent education, on its total cost, and if his evaluation team might prepare a report over the ensuing year and evaluate that program to some degree, and report to us on the merits of it. MR. HANUSCHAK: If it's the wish of the honourable member to receive that report next year, I will certainly make note of it. I'm prepared to give a comprehensive report at any time. MR. CHAIRMAN: Resolution 49 (e) --passed; (f) (!) --pass?

The Honourable Member for Brandon West. MR. McGILL: Mr. Chairman, I wanted to make some brief remarks on the Professional Development

section here. I suppose that the major role for curriculum development was in ensuring that the basic skills were communicated to the students and perhaps, as I understand it, the basic role or major role of professional development should be in assisting teachers to communicate their skills to their students. Now I wonder if the Minister can tell us just how that is being made to happen, if indeed it is happening. I understand too that much attention is given in this branch to something called Organizational Climate.

I wonder if the Minister could tell us what Organizational Climate is; if that is the assistance of teachers to work with each other, could he tell us how this in turn benefits the students who are under the direction of these teachers. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Minister of Education. MR.

HA NU SCHAK: The Organizational Development Program is in response to requests for programs in organization development, requests which have come from a variety of sources, teachers, trustees, superintendents, secretary-treasurers, principals, and at the present time I must say that the demand for the service is greater than can be met by the branchcon sultants, and therefore on occasion adjunct staff is utilized. When requested by a school divi sion a branch consultant provides consulting services to school divisions at any level of the organization.

Weekend workshop opportunities focusing on personal and organizational effec tiveness are provided yearly for educational personnel. As part of the Organization Development Program, there is a program known as Manitoba

April 11, 1975 121 3 SUPPLY - EDUCATION (MR. HANUSCHAK cont'd) ..•.. Administrative Growth Program, in which are involved the trustees, superintendents and the school business officials, and this is a program designed to develop more efficient and better techniques in the planning delivery and the general over-all management of our school programs.

And also I should mention that the assistance of persons competent and highly skilled in this field are from time to time drawn upon to assist in the delivery of it, where they may be called in on specific assignments for the conduct of certain workshops or seminars with any or all of the groups that I have mentioned. MR. McGILL: Mr. Chairman, does this department assist directly in enhancing and developing the teaching skills of teachers? I was interested in his explanation as how this hap pens. I understand that Organizational Climate, the term means the development of organiza tional skill by the teachers.

Is that correct? MR. HANUSCHAK: Yes, Mr. Chairman.

It should be pointed out that the Professional Development Branch was established in 1972 to do five things: One, to develop local leadership competency of educators and to update local leadership competency, to assist teachers with new skills and approaches and new approaches to teaching; and also in working with our own staff, to assist department staff through training and development, to improve their leadership and support functions, and as I had indicated just a moment ago, with specific reference to the Organizational Development Program, to provide management guidance to school divisions and districts.

And this is done in a variety of ways, as I have mentioned with reference to the Management Program, also in the other areas of a development of leadership competency, and tied in with that subject, competency. The organization conduct of in-service sessio ns; also we offer support to locally initiated in-service sessions by school divisions, and a resource teacher development project is under the jurisdiction of this branch; and also offering support to school divisions in developing their own expertise in the professional development of their staff.

In addition to in-service, summer course opportunities, department courses will be offered in priority needs areas - and the teachers are presently being canvassed and the courses that will be offered will depend upon the response to the publicity that's gone out, that will be going out - and a professional leadership program, which is in its second year.

There are 24 participants who are working as resource persons with other school divisions in the delivery of a professional development program; and also a training program and instructional supervision, and also working in close liaison with the Curriculum Development Branch. MR. McGILL: Mr. Chairman, I understand that under this branch - it's Professional Development here - is that the same as the Organizational Development that the Minister's been referring to, is it one and the same ? MR. HANUSCHAK: Within the same branch. MR. McGILL: Mr.

Chairman, I understand that a seminar was recently held at the Elkborn Ranch at Clear Lake under this branch. Could the Minister indicate what the purpose of this seminar was and which members of his staff attended? MR. HANUSCHAK: That I do not know, Mr. Chairman. We could certainly find out. I could undertake to find out for the honourable member. I don't know whether it was organized by a school division or school divisions, or by us. It's quite conceivable, quite likely, that there could have staff from my department attending and staff from this branch, but it could have been organized at the local level.

I could check on that for the honourable member. MR. McGILL: Well, Mr. Chairman, I would assume that if it was attended by members of the Department of Education that the Minister would know of it; and if the seminar was funded by the government or his department, that the Minister would know of it. Surely we should be able to get some information on it now. I had a series of questions that I wish to ask about it. I did not anticipate the Minister would not know of it. MR. HANUSCHAK: Mr.

Chairman, seldom a day goes by, in fact never a day goes by, that any number of my staff are not involved in attending meetings, workshops, seminars with any number of groups of teachers, any number of seminars are being held, some being organized by the Department of Education, others not. And I've attended many meetings on seminars not organized by the Department of Education, but organized by other groups to which I may have been invited. And my staff could have been invited to seminars organized at the divisional level.

So therefore, as I had indicated to the honourable member, I will undertake to find, out who organized that seminar. If the honourable member would - I'm sure that a place

1214 April 11, 1975 SUPPLY - EDUCATION (MR. HANUSCHAK cont'd) .. ... wherein seminars may be held quite frequently, I would appreciate !mowing the date of this seminar and I would check. MR. McGILL: Well then perhaps, Mr. Chairman, the Minister could also take some additional questions that he could obtain the information on at the same time. I would like to lmow if in fact this seminar was held, and whether or not there is another one planned for the next few weeks at the same location.

I would like to lmow how the value of these seminars is determined, what sort of cost-benefit study is done, if any report is submitted to his depart ment; I would like to lmow whether or not the cost of the seminars is borne by his department, and how many people attend. I'd like to lmow as well, Mr. Chairman, whether or not there are any outside consultants, or consulting firms that are involved in any of the discussions at the seminars, and if so, could he provide the names of the principles of those consulting firms. MR. HANUSCHAK: Yes, Mr.

Chairman, on the condition, as I have indicated earlier, that the seminar was organized by my staff and paid for by the departmen t. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Member for Lakeside. MR. HARRY J. ENNS (Lakeside): Mr. Chairman, just while we're on this item, a small question as a matter of, I suppose, parental concern, if nothing else. Could the Minister give us some indication as to how these in-service days for professional improvement are arrived at?

Is it a matter of departmental policy as to the number of days, or is it left to the individual school divisions to decide within the school divisions - it's a simple question for information.

My youngster comes home every once in a while and says, "Oh, we don't have school today because it's in-service day, " and while I appreciate the fact that we have certain statutory holidays and other holidays, that parents are by and large aware of, is there a set number of days that the department sets out, has set aside for this purpose lmown as in-service days, which the children are very well aware of, or is this left to the individual school divi sion? What parameters do they operate?

In other words, what I'm really asking the Minister is, can he indicate how many in-service days are set aside for staff during the calendar year of a school semester? MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Minister of Education. MR.

HANUSCHAK: Under the provisions of the Public Schools Act by ministerial regu lation, the maximum number of days that may be set aside for in-service purposes are pre scribed; and the maximum at the present time is nine days-at the elementary level and 11 at the secondary - and I wish to underline the word "maximum " - that is the limitation set by the Minister of Education, but up to that maximum it's entirely at the discretion of the school division and its administration, as to whether it wishes to use all or a part, if any, of those days, and the allocation of the spacing, the setting of dates for in-service days is a matter for local decision and not the Department of Education.

Those days are used, they could be used for activities of a professional development nature where teachers may meet to discuss matters related to the curriculum, or whatever, school management, could be for parent teacher interviews, and the like. They could be used in the high schools - towards the end of the year there is need to use two or three of those days for the way many high schools are operated - to use those days for pupil evaluation where the subject teachers of different classes would meet and determine . . . deal with the question of evaluation and promotion of students. MR.

CHAIRMAN: (The remainder of Resolution 49 was read and passed,) Item 45 pass? The Honourable Member for Brandon West. MR. McGILL: Mr. Chairman, I had mentioned to the Minister that I was having difficulty identifying an area for the discussion of his Textbook Branch. I'm not sure of the title, but it's apparently a purchasing agency, and I gather that the theory behind the setting up of this agency was that through the mass purchase of textbooks and other materials for schools that there would be some saving to the divisions.

I would like to ask the Minister how many people are employed by this branch, or whatever its title is, and how it is funded, what amounts of money are provided for the purchase of printed and non-printed material? MR. HANUSCHAK: The staff during the current fiscal year, and the same is proposed for the forthcoming fiscal year, the number of staff man-years is 23 plus 9 for temporary ser vices.

I would imagine that there are times of the year when the workload, periodic times when the workload increases and hence the need for part-time staff, so there's provision of the equivalent of nine for temporary services, plus the 23. And it's financed out of ... it operates as a regular bookstore in a sense. It buys books wholesale in collaboration with the

April 11, 1975 1215 SUPPLY - EDUC ATION (MR. HANUSCHAK cont'd) .. ... other western provinces and in a sense retails then, if you can call that end of the operations retail, to the school divisions at cost, plus a mark-up to cover their operating expenses, salaries, plus whatever other expenses they may have. MR. McGILL: Mr. Chair man, is this a voluntary participation by the school divisions , or are they required to make their purchases through this branch? MR. HANUSCHAK: The textbooks must be purchased through the Textbook Bureau .

Any supplementary material the school di visions are at liberty to purchase in whatever manner they should choose to do so. MR . McGILL: Mr. Chairman, you mentioned the bookstore buying things wholesale and retailing them out. Are they sending them and contra- accounting them to the divisions at list price? MR. HANUSCHAK: Th ey get a bulk discount based on the volume, and the discounts vary, they may be up to 40 percent while ... and because of our bulk buying that may far exceed the discount or a discount that a school division could hope to get, which would probably be something in the or der of 20 percent.

So therefore the cost of a textbook invariably is less than what it would otherwise have to pay. On other materials - that's on textbooks - on other materials the discount may range anywhere from 2 to 16 percent, depending on the type of material, audio-visual materials about 5 percent, and materials other than texts and other than audio-visual, between 10 and 16 percent.

While I'm on my feet, I'm advised that - now I do not have information on any seminar; I'll attempt to get it as quickly as I can, but I don't have it at the moment, it hasn't been pro vided to me - but I do have information of a seminar that is to be held at Elk horn on April 27t h to the 3oth. Th e theme of it is Organization Diagnosis and Improvement Skills for superintend ents, principals. Lodging, meals, transportation are pai d for by the participants.

So what ever cost that there is of accommodation and meals, the participants are paying for it, and staff of the Professional Develop ment Branch will be involved in provid ing leadership to it, and this is the usual pattern of financing seminars of that type. I'm not re-opening debate, Mr. Chairm an, but I was anxious to provide, as I promised the honourable member, to provide the information to him at the earliest opportune moment, so I'm able to do that now, without re opening the debate on the resolution. MR . McGILL: Mr.

Chairman, without re-opening the debate on the resolution, would he still provide me with the information as I d etailed it to him on the question? MR . HANUSCHAK: Mr. Chairman, I did not indivate that I would not, but I had received this and I passed it on, but I will attempt . . . yes, I am obtaining the other information too. MR. McGILL: Pertaining to the matter of the textbooks, just briefly here, there are discounts available for educational purc hases up to 40 percent as the Minister said.

Now I would like to know if any portion of that discount gets to the divisions, because certainly if they ordered them individually there would be a discount available to them even in the reduced quan tities, and there has been some indication to me that many of these books are tu rning up on the contra- accounts to the divisions listed at 110 pe rcent of list, the price being charged to the divisions. Now surely, Mr.

Chairman, if the purpose of this bookstore is to save money by bulk purchases, it should also be to save money for the divisions, and if the divisions are having to pay that much money, 110 percent of list for their books, then they should certainly be buying them indi vidually. Can the Minister comment on it? MR. HANUSCHAK: Ye s, Mr. Chairman, because the saving accruing from bulk buying is passed on to the school division.

In other words, if a textbook costs $5. 00 and buying it at a 40 percent discoun t enables us to purchase it for $3. 00, then the price to the school division is $3. 00, plus the mark-up, it could be that it is attributed to it being our operating costs.

Now this surprises me, what the honourable member tells me, and if there is, if the honourable member is aware of such a case, I would either now, or at a later time, I'd be only too glad to receive the particulars of it and check it out, because you know that is certainly strange and I cannot understand that happening, and I would like to check it out and offer the honourable member an explanation. MR. McGILL: Mr.

Chairman, I would assume that the selling price of the books to the divisions would depend to a large extent on the operating costs of this store, and that if the discounts that they achieve by large buying, mass purc hases, were eaten up by the costs of operating the store and of paying the 23, plus 9 temporary, then it's quite conceivable that the

1216 April 11, 1975 - SUPPLY - EDUCA TION (MR, McGILL cont'd) ••••• price might end up being more to the divisions than if they had the privilege of ordering for themselves. MR. HANUSCHAK: Well, Mr.

Chairman, I'm absolutely confident that the price at which we in the Province of Manitoba and other provinces which are utilizing a bulk purchasing method of books, are able to provide the students of their respective provinces, or the school divisions of their respective provinces, and we in ours, with textbooks at a lower cost than they would be able to purchase them otherwise were they to purchase them on their own. MR. McGILL: Just before we leave this item completely, Mr. Chairman, I wonder could I remind the Minister of the annual report for Colleges and Universities.

I wonder if that is available at the present time. MR. HANUSCHAK: I have indicated to the honourable member that the report will be available on or about the 15th. I know it's getting close to it, but I'm sorry it is not available to date. MR. McGILL: In connection with the organizational chart for the Department of Education. Is that available now as a result of the questions that were asked the other day? MR. HANUSCHAK: Yes, Mr. Chairman, it's being prepared and as soon as it's prepared it will be made available to honourable members. MR, McGILL: Mr.

Chairman, on the first page of the Department of Education's list of personnel and services, it lists the bureau, or department I guess that is in English, of French education. Is there any significance to that terminology? MR. HANUSCHAK: No , Mr. Chairman, other than identifying a particular branch of the department. MR, McGILL: It is not a separate department of French education? MR. HANUSCHAK: No, Mr. Chairman, it's within the Department of Education. MR, CHAIRMAN: Resolution 45(a). The Honourable Member for Fort Garry. MR. SHERMAN: Mr. Chairman, I just want to take two minutes.

I was rushing to get back here in time for 49(

d) which I missed, but since we're on the Minister's salary I'm en titled, I believe, to say a word or two about it. I think that when you look at the appropriation fo'r the Manitoba School for the Deaf, the appropriation for the Manitoba School for the Deaf that that increase listed there is really niggardly, really niggardly, Mr. Chairman.

My good ness, the over-all increase in spending in the department is about 14 percent, the over-all in crease in government spending in total is about 18 percent; the increase we looked at in the area of Planning and Research is 40 percent; the increase we looked at in Other Expenditures under Planning and Research is 60 percent. And what does the School for the Deaf get? One and a half percent. MR. EN NS: It falls on deaf ears. MR, SHERMAN: And I would like • MR. EN NS: It falls on deaf ears. MR. SHERMAN: I would like to register my very strong objection, my very strong dis may, on that point, Mr. Speaker.

Costs have gone up everywhere. The Minister needs no acquaintanceship with the fact that costs of operation, costs of living, costs of maintaining any kind of institution, have gone up everywhere across the board, and here we have a one and a half percent increase in the appropriation for the Manitoba School for the Deaf. And I submit that there is a community that is being totally ignored by this administration and by this Minister. There is a handicapped community on which this Minister and his department have turned their backs. And I think that that is repugnant, Mr.

Chairman, and I wanted to make that point for the record. I'm sorry that I missed the item at the time that it came up. Just one other word in the wbole area of deaf and hearing impaired children, and you can direct me, Mr. Chairman, as to whether I'm in the right department on this. Maybe, perhaps it should come under the Department of Health and Social Development. I want to talk to which ever minister is responsible about the lack of facilities and teachers for deaf and hearing im paired children in the community, and if that comes under Health and Social Development, I'll wait for that.

But I think that the Minister probably could offer one comment with respect to the oral classes at Gladstone School, which surely comes under his department, the oral classes for hearing-impaired children in the preschool stage, to train them and prepare them to take their places in normal regular classrooms, what is being done in terms of maintaining the kinds of instructional expertise, the number of instructors, the facilities required to meet the needs of hearing-impaired children in our community? Is there any further expansion or

April 11, 1975 1217 SUPPLY - EDUCA TION (MR. SHERMAN cont'd) •...• enlargement of that program contemplated, or is this another dark corner, another dark closet that is being ignored, that is being pushed into the background by this department? MR . HANUSCHAK: Insofar as Gladstone School is concerned, provision for the possible addition of a class had been contemplated but with the enrolment in that program declining, it now appears that the existing number of classes will be adequate for the forseeable future.

Now as far as the School for the Deaf itself is concerned, in Tuxedo, we are anticipating about a 10 percent reduction in the enrolment, so offset the enrolment and then the inflationary in crease and that accounts for the difference which . . . relate that to a smaller enrolment therefore it' s quite adequate to provide for their expenditures in the light of the increased costs. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Brandon West. MR .

McGILL: As the debate on the estimates of the Department of Education grind slow ly to a close, I'm reminded of a quotation from a member of his staff about the importance of debating as an activity for students in schools, an extra-curricular activity I would assume, and he was reported in the press to have offered the opinion that it was a middle-class elitist occupation, and it was of little interest to this person, and I wonder if he's reflecting the views of the Minister of Education and his department in respect to debating as an occupation or extra curricular activity for students in high school. MR .

HANUSCHAK: Mr. Chairman, I have no knowledge of that statement being made but if it was made, and I say if it was made, it certainly is not reflecting my views, nor that of my department, nor that of my government, because for the past four or five years we have been supporting the Manitoba Debating Association, I believe was - I could find the correct title, but we have been supporting that particular function to the extent of - the Manitoba Debating Society - to the extent of $ 350 a year, which was the amount that . • .

They had met with us; we had agreed that that is the level of support that they would require, and that's the level of support that they had been offered and which they are quite pleased and happy to receive. MR. McGILL: I'm pleased to hear the Minister assure us that his department supports this activity - it's a worthy one - and that his Assistant Deputy Minister, if he made this state ment, was not speaking on behalf of the department. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Fort Garry. MR , SHERMAN: Mr.

Chairman, I'd like to ask the Minister whether the program for deaf and hearing-impaired children in Manitoba is conducted under the auspices of his depart ment or under the Department of Health and Social Development? MR , HANUSCHAK: My department, Mr. Chairman. MR, SHERMAN: Well, Mr. Chairman, what is the Minister doing about the preschool program that's tied in with the Society for Crippled Children and Adults? MR . HANUSCHAK: Mr. Chairman, I do regret that it appears that perhaps the honour able member was not in the House at the time that the Honourable Member for Assiniboia was asking the same question.

If we're talking about school-aged children, the School for the Deaf deals with school-aged children, that is the responsibility of my department. If he is talking about preschool children it comes within the jurisdiction of the Department of Health and Social Development. MR. SHERMAN: Thank you. Well, I was interested in the School for the Deaf; the Minister has attempted to answer that question. The other question relates to the preschoolers and I'll hold that for the Department of Health and Social Development. Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Resolution 45(a)-passed.

Resolution 45 resolved that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $980, 700 for education. Passed. That completes the Department of Education. SUPPLY- COLLEGE S AND UNIVERSITY AFFAIRS I now refer honourable members to their Estimates Book, Page 13, Resolution 31. The Honourable Minister of Education. The Honourable Minister of Colleges and Universities, I beg your pardon. MR. HANUSCHAK: Mr. Chairman, we'll have ample opportunity to discuss strikes, whichever strike the honourable member wishes to discuss. Mr.

Chairman, it is not so many years ago 'that post-secondary education involved the time honoured courses for a limited group in society, who looked to the university for the

1218 April 11, 1975 SUPPLY - COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES (MR. HANUSC HAK cont'd) ..•.• completion of their educational training or preparation, The '60s witnessed the great expansion of student enrolments, and thi s expansion was based on a clear-cut unambiguous goal to provide enough places at Ca nadian universities for the countless numbers of 18 year old po st-war babies emerging from the high schools after 1963; governments and universities would provide the neces sary funds; universities would provide the required educational opportunities, but the '70s brought with it the need for a cold re assess ment.

A number of factors are involved and combine to present a dilemma to government. The expansion was accompa nied by an even greater relative increase in operating expenditures. At the same time as costs mounted, needs for other kinds of post-secondary education became apparent, There was a growing demand from adults for all kinds of education, including work education, leading to an university degree. And also at the same time there was mounting skepticism about the economic and social value of university education for the large numbers enrolled.

The re- asses sment then was occas ioned by the increased costs despite declining enrol ments, which add to concerns of inflation. As well, questions have been raised to the validity of the university experience for many students, and a growing demand for alternative types of post-secondary training for different kinds of population, I think it can be said that there is now little consensus about what universities should be and what purposes they should serve.

One of the dilemmas therefore centres around the question of academic autonomy given the budgetary pressures faced by government and thus passed on to the universities. Another is the escalating costs to establish programs with their traditional clientele given government's comm itment to groups of Manitobans who have never , and might never have received the bene fits of post-secondary education. Ch anges have taken place the past few years and will no doubt continue.

The universities have opened their doors considerably wider making it possible for more of our people to profit from the courses which they offer. As honourable members know, Mr. Chairman , we have had in Manitoba, as elsewhere in Ca nada, a phenomenal growth in post-secondary and other areas of continuing education in the community colleges. The programs here are not only those relating to training in the skills areas but also in the technologies, that is, in areas which stress particularly the specialized skills needed in our industrial technological commercial world.

To make it possible for more people of all ages, and in the more remote parts of the province, to achieve their educational goals, all facets of the educational operation have been expanding their efforts and broad ening their programs. For some years now, the universities have had a combined operation called Intra-Universities North which provides university courses in Northern Manitoba. The IMPACTE project in Teacher Education, which has been carried on through Brandon University, now has a new

section called BUNTEP designed partic ularly for the north. BU NTEP, meaning Brandon University Northern Teacher Education Project. As a result of recommendations by the post-secondary task force, an experimental pro ject is just getting under way in the Pa rklands region to see whether it is possible to provide continuing education at all levels in a co-ordinated way. This project will make it possible for people in the three districts in the region, which showed in terest in the project, namely , Ste.

Rose, Roblin and Swan River, to develop programs in adult education through their school boards, through the community colleges, and through the universities. It is not intended that the continuing education project will have any more than a small central administra tive staff, and incidentally a number of courses have already begun in the region, Included in the estimates for support services, or Support Services Internal, are funds for Manitoba to pay residual costs for veterinary students at the University of Saskatchewan.

The Veterinary College there is designed to meet the needs of the four western provinces, and now the Yukon and the Northwest Territories, I might men tion in pass ing, Mr. Chairman, that there was a comm ittee in operation called the Western Canada Post-Secondary Co-ordinating Committee, which includes the Ministers of these provinces, and whose purpose is to develop co-operative programs wherever practicable in order to achieve the most benefits from the resources available. Two rec ent fields in which Manitoba is working with Saskatchewan are education of the

April 11, 1975 1219 SUPPLY - COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES (MR, HANUSCHAK cont'd) ..... deaf at Red Ri ver Community College, and a new program to begin this fall in nuclear medical technology, and discus sions are curr ently under way in other areas. Enrolments continue to grow slowly in the community colleges as you might expect, Mr. Chairma n. The programs carrie d on in the colleges are under continuing review by both the Review and Development

section in this division, as well as by the Instructional Planning and Evaluation section. studies by Review and Development have shown very substantial benefits in relation to costs with re spect to increased earning power of gradua tes. Furthermore, very high percentages of graduates are working in Manitoba and in the areas in which they took their training. In addition, a high percentage of dropouts have also improved their position and are employed here. In many cases, tho se who drop out do so be cause they have achieved their goals or because they have had very att ractive job offers.

During this year , discussions have been very active with the Ca nada Depart ment of Man power and Immigration with respect to the agreement under which we and other provinces have operated for adult training. Ca nada proposed a new agreement based on a fixed sum of money each year rather than one based on training days with a final settlement.

The officials in my department in combination with those in the Manpower and Employment Cabinet Sub-committee, and Industry and Commerce, Department of Labour , the Federal-Provincial Relations Division of the Department of Finance, and the Attorney-G eneral's Department , with the assistance of the Provincial Auditor's Department, have spent a good deal of time in examining the proposed agreement and developing suitable proposals for us. And I might mention, Mr.

Chairman, that there has been a good deal of inter-provincial dialogue and co-operation in this whole area, Now I should say that the agreement under which we'll be functioning since April lst may have some problems, and perhaps we're not entirely dissatisfied with the present agreement but Ca nada has made it so that we could not continue to operate under it. Pr essure of accommodation is developing in the community colleges so that we are ex amining what steps are best to take.

Each college has satellite operations which are designed to provide courses close to prospective clients in order to make programs more readily avail able, and we expect to continue and expand this development. Pla nning has been under way for some time and steps are now being taken to open a day care centre at Red River Community College in September to provide day care for preschool aged children of students en.rolled there. This centre will be related to the course for Child Ca re Services which is now offered in the college.

During the past year steps have been taken to establish a computer base management information system for the colleges in order to provide the necessary information for the operation and direction of the colleges. Although this system is necessary, it's necessary in any case, it is essential to cope with the conditions of the new agreement with Ca nada which requires up-to-date accounting and projections to be made each quarter in order to determine trainee referrals in Canada Manpower.

Growing out of the need for planning in order to be able to meet the developing needs in the colleges, a multi-year planning exercise has been initiated, based on three year projections, in order that forward planning will serve as the basis for operations. Each year the multi- year plan will be extended for one year, the next year 's estimates to be developed, and then the next year' s estimates will be developed from the plan.

The staffs in the colleges and the Review and Development and the Operations sections have invested a substantial amount of work in thi s operation which will provide the framework within which the colleges can function. I should like at this time, Mr. Chairman, to acknowledge the dedication of the staffs in the colleges and in the central division. The success of the colleges is related directly to the work of the administrative staffs and the quality of instruction given by the instructional staffs. Members will be well aware, Mr. Chairman, of the report of the task force on post secondary education.

When the report was rece ived at the end of 1973 a working group was established consisting of senior people to examine the recommendations of the task force and bring proposals forward for consideration. Members will be aware of the steps that have been taken during the year since they have been reported through the Information Services to the media. I migh t mention policies with respect to the offering of graduate programs on a co-opera tive basis at the University of Winnipeg, and also Bra ndon, if that should be appropriated, which is under consideration at the pres ent time.

1220 SUPPLY - COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES (MR. HANUSCHAK cont'

d) April 11, 1975 Steps have also been taken to begin to co-ordinate provincially sponsored research in the universities through the mechanism of the Planning Secretariat. Pve already mentioned the regional delivery system, as recommended by the task force, which had begun as the experimental operation in the continuing education in the Parklands region. At the present time the matter of governance of the community colleges is under active consideration, and I an ticipate decisions in this area soon.

Two sections of this department, Student Aid and Youth Secretaria t, relate directly to students at both secondary and post-secondary levels. Student Aid provides funding for stu dents on the basis of need to assist them in the pursuit of their educational goals. Among other things, the Youth Secretariat provides opportunities for summer employment for students on the basis of need so that they might have employment to as sist them in securing their education. And at the same time, the work that is done by the students is useful work, both in and out of government. And I should also add, Mr.

Chairman, that the Summer Employment Program for students, in determining the level of the operation of the program we take two factors into account: One, the numbers of students; and secondly, the prospects for employment within the private sector, and that in turn determines the balance remaining who would come to the Youth Secretariat to seek em ployment under programs such as I have mentioned. Members will be aware, Mr. Chairman, that we had problems with Student Aid last year because we were not able to notify all students as soon as they, and we, would have liked them to be notified. I will admit, Mr.

Chairman, that we have the same problems which other pro vinces also encountered last year, that is, that the number of applicants for aid increased dramatically. In our case the numbers went up from about 9, 500 to over 14, OOO in the middle of the summer, and from 13 ,0 00 to 16, 000 over-all, because even after mid-summer appli cations still continued to come in and most of those of course would be for student loans. Student aid , Mr. Chairman, is a rather complicated business. It is partly that way be cause it is given on the basis of need.

This requires students to give the details of their finan cial condition, or if they are dependent on their parents, the deta ils of their parents' financial condition. We could of course avoid all this by giving full student aid to all students without any assessm ent of need. Indeed students are agitating to be considered independent when they are 18 , and therefore independent of their parents. Mr. Chairman, we're not prepared to take these steps because of the cost. Manitoba's already among the most generous of provinces with respect to student aid.

If students qualify for aid, for assistance beyond $400 ., the $400 .which they can get from Canada Student Loans , we provide bursaries up to their need, or to a maximum of $1 ,400. Beyond that point they' re entitled to Canada Student Loans, if they have entitlement, for a further, another $1, 400 for the coming year, therefore making a total of $3, 200, the initial 400 , plus the 1, 400 and 1, 400 student loan and bursary mix. If their need goes beyond this, they may apply for assistanc e with the Department of Health and Social Development.

To try to ensure that all post-secondary students who apply on time will receive notifi cation by August 3lst, we are decentralizing some of the operation by returning it to the insti tutions and in addition making provision for more staff, that is, some of the initial work that has to be done in the processing of the applications. INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS MR. CHAIRMAN (Mr. Walding) : Order please. If I might interrupt the Honourable Minister for just a moment and direct the attention of members to the gallery to my right where there are 25 students of Grade 9 standing from the J. M. Young School.

These students are under the direction of Mrs. Kilburn. The school is in the constituency of the Honourable Member for Glad stone. On behalf of all the members, I bid you welcome to the Legislature. SUPPLY - COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES cont'd. The Honourable Minister of Colleges and Universities. MR. HANUSCHAK: Finally, Mr. Chairman, I should like to mention Special Projects. Special Projects have remained essentially the same in the type of projects, although interest ing extensions have been made to some. Es sentially these projects are directed toward

April 11 , 197 5 1221 SUPPLY - COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES (MR. HANUSCHAK cont'd) ...•. bringing post-secondary education training to Manitobans who would find such opportunities extremely difficult if not impossible, due to geographic iso lation, financial misfortune, age, sex, or racial background. I referred earlier to BUNTEP and IMPACTE, the special teacher training projects. The Special Matur e Student Proj ect has been in operation at Bra ndon University for four years in the field of Arts.

Negotiations have been completed to see its extension into the Faculties of Agricultur e, Engineering and Physical Education at the University of Manitoba. Te acher training for native students has been located in a number of western Manitoba centres for a similar number of year s. The university courses are taken to the students, rather than the students leaving their communities to go to the university. Over the past number of months, youth centres have been established in a half dozen northern communities where a similar type of effort will be undertaken.

This program not only benefits the resid ents of these communities in an employment sense, but also decreases the problems associa ted with total reliance when the schools must rely upon southern teachers. One of the most successful programs, New Careers is designed to provide a first chance for people to get into the work force at a level related to their capacities. As a result of the Ca nada Manpower Northlands Agreement, these programs have been and are going to be ex tended in the north to provide special assistance in that region.

Also included in 8Pecial Proj ects are a few other programs: One, is Informal Education, which is to deliver educational and training resources to working-class people in such a manner as to assure no loss of income; another is the Co mmunity Educator Program. These programs are to train and develop people who will have basic skills and knowledge of resources , both material and human, for use in the educational development of people in both Northern Manitoba and Inner City of Winnipeg.

In another is a Native Fa mily Life Counselling Program, to train counsellors who will specifically work with native families and who will deal especially with the su bject of native identity within a family context in the Inner City of Winnipeg. Finally there is the FOCUS Pr ogram which delivers post-secondary educational expe rience to people, who traditionally have not had the opportunity for such an experience, by a delivery system that utilizes modern technology to solve problems of distance. Mr.

Chairman, I think this provides a review of the highlights of the estimates for Colleges and Universities Affairs. I will be pleased to attempt to answer any further questions which honourable members may have. MR. CHAIRMAN: Re solution 31 . The Honourable Minister for Corre ctions. HON. J. R. (BUD) BOYC E (Minister for Corr ections and Rehabilita tion)( Winnipeg Centre) ; Mr. Chairman, it seems to me the .. . Well, the House Leader assumes his position. MR. CHAIRMAN: Th e Honourable Minister of Labour. HON. RUSSELL PAULLEY (Minister of Labour) (Tra nscona): Mr.

Chair man, I under stand that there' s general agree ment with members, that now that the Minister has made an opening statement insofar as Colleges and Universiti es, that we would call it a day. And I understand that the honourable members are prepa red to forgo Pr ivate Members' Day, and if that is correct, Mr, Chair man, I would move that the committee rise. MR. CHAIRMAN: Committee rise. Call in the Speaker. Mr. $Peaker , the Committee of Supply has considered certain resolutions, directed me to report progress, and asks leave to sit again. IN SESSION MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Vital. MR. D.

JAMES WALDING (St. Vital) : Mr. $Peaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for St. Matthews , that the report of the committee be received. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Acting House Leader. MR. PAULLEY: Mr. $Peaker , I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Urban Affairs, that the House do now adjourn. MOTION presented and carried, and the House adjourned until 2:30 p. m, Monday after- noon.

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	30-2-44
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	30th 2nd hansardpdf 44.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	078be4f20242537209b89df2f103fbef5756acf6

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