Fifth Session, 41st Parliament

(2020) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, August 13, 2020

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 357

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Bill M210 — High Dose Influenza Vaccine for Seniors Act, 2020

J. Isaacs

Bill M211 — Land Tax Deferment (Cultus Lake Park) Amendment Act, 2020

L. Throness

Introductions by Members

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Driftwood Valley Outfitters and Takla First Nations youth training program

M. Morris

Nanaimo coal-mining history and South End Community Association

D. Routley

Simon Dufresne

E. Foster

Sunshine Coast ferry services during COVID-19

N. Simons

Service of Legislature staff and members during COVID-19

S. Furstenau

Sowaran Kaur Hoti

J. Sims

Oral Questions

Economic recovery plan

A. Wilkinson

Hon. J. Horgan

Site C power project

G. Kyllo

Hon. B. Ralston

Government response to COVID-19

A. Olsen

Hon. J. Horgan

Government plan for education system reopening

D. Davies

Hon. J. Horgan

S. Bond

Government action on homelessness and community safety

T. Stone

Hon. J. Darcy

Tabling Documents

B.C. Arts Council, annual report, 2019-20

Petitions

Hon. A. Kang

N. Simons

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Finance (continued)

S. Bond

Hon. C. James

S. Cadieux

THURSDAY, AUGUST 13, 2020

The House met at 10:05 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: M. Stilwell.

Introductions by Members

J. Rice: I was going to introduce Lu̓á, my

son, today, but he is a little bit cranky and taking his time getting

here.

M. Stilwell: Joining us in the gallery today are some special guests of mine. First

is my son, Kai, who is here again just two weeks after his 19th birthday. He

did survive the night out. Joining him today are close family friends,

Isabelle Crepin and her son, Kai Lamb, who are visiting us for the next

week. That’s right. We have double trouble with the two Kais. We’ll be out

exploring beautiful British Columbia, showing them all the sights and sounds

as tourists as we explore our own backyard here on Vancouver

Island.

Would the House please make them feel very welcome.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

BILL M210 — HIGH DOSE INFLUENZA

VACCINE FOR SENIORS

ACT, 2020

J. Isaacs presented a bill intituled High Dose Influenza Vaccine for

Seniors Act, 2020.

J. Isaacs: I move the bill intituled High Dose Influenza Vaccine for Seniors

Act, 2020, of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper,

be introduced and read for the first time now.

Over 2,000 deaths in Canada in 2018. These deaths are not

attributed to the number of loved ones that died of drug overdoses. It’s

not deaths related to car accidents nor deaths related to COVID-19.

These are the number of lives that were lost to influenza-related

deaths.

Our immune system weakens as we age. The older we get, the more

likely our risk of contracting the flu increases. Those who have

compromised health conditions or a compromised immune system, like heart

and stroke, diabetes, kidney disease or lung conditions, are at a higher

risk of influenza-related complications. Seniors are more likely to be

hospitalized after getting the flu, and for those who are hospitalized,

over 65 percent had an underlying health condition, and nearly 85

percent of deaths were linked to those underlying risk factors. Many of

these deaths would have been preventable were a vaccine more readily

available for our seniors.

Many seniors who contract the flu suffer a decline in mobility.

The virus can severely impact both mental and physical health, resulting

in a loss of independence and a greater need for additional care.

COVID-19 has shown the world the devastating outcomes when an outbreak

occurs in shared spaces like long-term-care homes. While there is

currently no vaccination for COVID-19, a high dose influenza vaccine is

available. Vaccination is the best way to avoid the spread of this

highly contagious viral infection. It’s the best way to reduce hospital

visits and the high, high cost to the medical system.

I introduced my High Dose Influenza Vaccine for Seniors Act in

2018 and again in 2019. I urge government to move forward with this

legislation to protect our seniors living in long-term-care

homes.

Mr. Speaker: The question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

[10:10 a.m.]

J. Isaacs: I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for the

second reading of the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M210, High Dose Influenza Vaccine for Seniors Act, 2020,

introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day

for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL M211 — LAND TAX DEFERMENT

(CULTUS LAKE PARK)

AMENDMENT ACT, 2020

L. Throness presented a bill intituled Land Tax Deferment (Cultus

Lake Park) Amendment Act, 2020.

L. Throness: I move that a bill intituled Land Tax Deferment (Cultus Lake Park)

Amendment Act, 2020, of which notice has been given in my name on the

order paper, be introduced and now read a first time.

Cultus Lake Park Board was established in 1932 by a unique act to

this Legislature called the Cultus Lake Park Act. Residents of the park

own their homes, but they lease their land from the park board, and for

this reason, they cannot defer their property taxes like other British

Columbian homeowners are able to do. This causes hardship for many

long-term residents on fixed incomes in Cultus Lake as homeowners age

and housing prices experience significant increases. It’s happening at a

time when it’s more and more important that we enable people to age in

place and live independently.

While the park board leases last for 21 years, they are

perpetually renewed according to the terms of the lease, providing

ironclad assurance to the government that the ministry will be able to

collect those deferred taxes in the future, plus interest. The taxpayer

would not lose a penny from the enactment of this bill. The bill would

alter the B.C. Land Tax Deferment Act to enable tax deferment to take

place for Cultus Lake residents.

I would welcome the government bringing forward my bill for debate

or proposing its own so that my constituents in their unique situation

can be treated like most other homeowners in B.C.

Motion approved.

L. Throness: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for the

next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M211, Land Tax Deferment (Cultus Lake Park) Amendment Act, 2020,

introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day

for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Mr. Speaker: Before we begin the next matter, if we could go back to

introductions for a second.

Introductions by Members

J. Rice: I’d like to introduce Lu̓á Alan

Rice, my son. This is his second visit to the B.C. Legislature. He just

recently turned eight months, and this week, while at the Legislature, he

graduated from butt-scooching to mastering his forward crawl.

Would the House please make him feel welcome.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

DRIFTWOOD VALLEY OUTFITTERS

AND TAKLA FIRST NATIONS

YOUTH TRAINING PROGRAM

M. Morris: Michael Schneider owns Driftwood Valley Outfitters and has been

taking international clients out into some of the most beautiful remote

back country our province has to offer for over 30 years. He operates

within the traditional territory of the Takla First Nations and works

closely with Chief John Allen French and the Takla community.

Over the past year, Michael has put together the Driftwood outdoor

guide and business apprenticeship program designed for Takla First

Nations youth. He has combined learning opportunities and remote

wilderness guiding, tourism and the business aspect of this sector.

Working within the school district, he has been able to include regular

school curriculum into his program to give youth the opportunity to

complete high school.

Michael designed this three-year program to provide First Nations

youth opportunities to learn life skills: how to use a chainsaw; build,

maintain cabins; field dress wild game; trap fur-bearing animals; and

provide exceptional customer service to clients intent on experiencing

beautiful British Columbia’s outdoors in a safe and secure environment.

Significant in this program is the cultural and traditional knowledge

embedded in all activities, creating a platform to share this rich

heritage with clients well into the future.

[10:15 a.m.]

While I speak, the current enrolment of students in this program

are hiking and learning while on a month-long wilderness excursion into

the mountains in the central northwest part of our province. Support

from the Wood Wheaton Supercentre in Prince George and the Guide

Outfitters Association of B.C. ensures that these students are well

equipped with top-of-the-line outdoor apparel that will keep them dry,

warm and comfortable through­out their excursion.

This is an exceptional initiative that will provide an enduring

employment legacy for Takla First Nations youth to enter the tourism

field and offer professional services to clients and to pass their

skills on to other interested community members.

NANAIMO COAL-MINING HISTORY AND

SOUTH END COMMUNITY

ASSOCIATION

D. Routley: I rise today to speak about Nanaimo. Its history reads the history

of British Columbia, the history of working people and the history of

the labour movement. I’d like to speak briefly about one particular

incident: 133 years ago on May 3, 1887, when 148 men who were working in

a coal mine — the number one coal mine in Nanaimo — died in an

explosion. That was a time when Nanaimo had little more than 2,000

people as a population, so it was a very significant blow to the

community, and it is memorialized today.

The real subject of what I’m going to speak about is the South End

Community Association, formed in 1978, some 91 years later, by some of

the direct descendants, children and even some of the people who were

present that day. This group is a community group that is engaged and is

propelling this community forward.

Just like the lives of working people, the lives of the South End

have been challenged by the same factors: uneven employment, uneven

income and a lot of challenges. But it is the strength of the community

that brought people back to do a Miner’s Picnic that has gone on for a

quarter of a century, establish a food forest, establish art cans —

garbage cans that are artistic — and improve the community. They’re

involved in community engagement and consultation with the city. They

have a great partnership with the Snuneymuxw First Nation. They have

contributed with a neighbourhood plan.

This is a great group chaired by Sydney Robertson with members

Sandy McLelan, Starr Faux, Blake McGuffie, Kathryn-Jane Hazel, Elody

Bothers, Petra Sochor and Michelle Crowley, among others. It’s a really

fantastic group that speaks today to the same fibre and character that

was present in Nanaimo those 133 years ago.

SIMON DUFRESNE

E. Foster: It gives me great pleasure to speak in the House about a

constituent of mine from Vernon, Simon Dufresne. To say Simon is an

overachiever would be an understatement.

Just a few of his accomplishments. In high school, he was on the

roll of distinction every year and won the community service award

several times. He was a charter member and president of the Vernon Leo

Club. The Leos are the youth wing of the international Lions

Association. He won the Leo Award of Honour, Leo president’s 100 percent

certificate and Leo of the Year and was the first Leo ever to be asked

to sit on the district governor’s cabinet.

As a member of the 63rd Kalamalka Royal Canadian Sea Cadets, Simon

was awarded the Lord Strathcona medal, the Royal Canadian Legion Cadet

medal of excellence, the Navy League medal of excellence, the service

and citizenship award, service achievement award, top marksman

leadership award and sea cadet of the year. He was one of 50 cadets

across Canada awarded a deployment on a tall ship through the Gulf

Islands. He was awarded the silver Duke of Edinburgh’s Award, which was

presented here in Victoria at Government House by the

Lieutenant-Governor.

All of those took place while Simon was in high school. After

graduating from high school, Simon enrolled in the culinary arts program

at Okanagan College, where he graduated at the top of his class. Simon

was chosen to go with one of his instructors and another student to the

five-star Hotel Belvedere in Riccione, Italy to cook a traditional

Canadian dinner for the guests.

Most recently, Simon was presented with one of the Stober Family

Foundation Trades Awards, an award based on in-class performance,

academic achievement and recommendations from instructors.

[10:20 a.m.]

This would be an impressive resume for a 40-year-old. What makes

it more impressive is Simon turned 19 on the 30th of May this

year.

Congratulations, Simon, on all you’ve achieved. It’s an honour to

call you my friend.

SUNSHINE COAST FERRY SERVICES

DURING

COVID-19

N. Simons: There are over 50,000 residents of the Sunshine Coast. We have

hospitals, we have doctors’ offices and health clinics, and we are the

home to many seniors. Most of our medical specialists live and work in

North Vancouver or Vancouver, making it necessary for residents to

travel on one of the particularly busy ferries.

In phase 1 of the pandemic, when sailings were cut dramatically,

the province ordered that residents and essential goods would be given

priority loading. When travel picked up, B.C. Ferries hadn’t had enough

time to hire and train their regular contingent of summer workers, so we

were left with busier ferries and fewer sailings. People going to their

rescheduled surgeries or pre-surgery consultations with specialists were

missing their ferries. The company’s own complicated medical-assured

loading program, with its restrictive eligibility requirements, couldn’t

meet our community’s needs.

That’s why I was pleased when the province made a medical-travel

order that states quite clearly that a medical professional’s letter —

along with a regular travel assistance, or TAP, form — will get a

person, travelling for medical reasons, on a ferry if they arrive 30

minutes ahead of time. Gone was the requirement that the travel had to

be urgent or that waiting at the terminal would have to cause risk to

health. Gone, too, is the burden on B.C. Ferries in trying to determine

who qualifies and who doesn’t. Medical priority is determined at the

discretion of the professional medical practitioner, to ensure that

people travelling for medical reasons will get to and from their

destinations.

I’d like to thank the province and B.C. Ferries for acknowledging

the unique circumstances facing residents of ferry-reliant communities,

and I look forward to working on finding better long-term solutions to

residents’ needs.

SERVICE OF LEGISLATURE STAFF

AND MEMBERS DURING

COVID-19

S. Furstenau: It has been a remarkable achievement, this historic hybrid

legislative session. While most people see only us, the members of the

House, the reality is that there are hundreds who’ve made this possible.

The Clerk and all of her staff in her office are unrelenting in their

commitment, and their professionalism, grace and good humour abound as

they’ve guided us through this whole new landscape.

Hansard and the IT crew, henceforth to be known as the miracle

workers of the B.C. Legislature, have set a very high bar for the rest

of Canada to aspire to. While we were mostly working from home in April

and May, they were working here, laying the foundation for this

precedent-setting parliamentary session.

The Sergeants-at-Arms have protected us in ways that none of us

could have imagined before 2020. They have been modelling Dr. Henry’s

mantra of staying calm and being kind, even before she’d started

offering her daily guidance to all of us.

The dining room staff have maintained their sunny disposition

while figuring out how to keep all of us fed. The maintenance and

cleaning staff have gone above and beyond to keep us as safe as we

possibly can be. The librarians have continued to provide answers to all

of the questions — and the reading material that has helped carry us

through these strange times.

Ministry staff and legislative drafters, tasked with what must

have seemed like the impossible, have kept the government’s agenda

moving forward, even when much of the world seemed to be at a full stop.

Constituency office staff around the province have found ways to

continue to serve citizens, and the caucus staff have made our work and

efforts in here possible. The ministerial assistants have been the

pillars the ministers can count on.

All of us have done our best to rise to this occasion, but I think

it’s important to acknowledge and recognize that the ministers and the

Premier, who are bearing the burden and responsibilities of steering the

ship that is our province in the midst of a global pandemic, have risen

very high. For a moment, let’s consider the weight that they are

carrying and its toll on them and their families, and let us remember to

be grateful for their service.

If I may just take this opportunity to thank my colleague the

member for Saanich North and the Islands for his calm, kind,

compassionate and wise leadership over the last eight months. It’s been

a true gift to work alongside him. I’m deeply grateful to be his

colleague and his friend.

SOWARAN KAUR HOTI

J. Sims: I rise today to celebrate the life of a constituent of mine who

also happened to be my mom, Sowaran Kaur Hoti, who died at the age of 95

on the sixth of April.

[10:25 a.m.]

She was born in a small — tiny, I would say — village in the

Punjab, in Gurre, and born with the last name Nahall. Her

nankay , her maternal village, her mom’s village, was

Takkarki. The name Binning will always, always, have a special place in

her heart, because for my mom, the Nahall family and the Binning family

were always paramount. They were what made her world rock, and when one

of them moved into the house or came to visit her, she would just light

up.

She was the oldest of five kids — one sister and three brothers.

She lost her sister back in ’75 due to cancer. Her two brothers also

passed away, and she is survived by her youngest brother, who lives in

San Francisco. She married my father, Bikrama Singh Hoti, and moved to

the village of Pabma, also in the Punjab — which, when I was younger,

seemed like a thousand miles away but, when I went back, is only a few

kilometres away.

In 1962, with four kids under the age of ten in tow, she moved to

England. I am in awe of the challenges that she faced, arriving in

England in the month of October — rainy, miserable, dark, cold; moving

to a totally different environment where she didn’t speak the language

and moving into a house where her uncle and my dad, who were there

before us, had to show her how to use the amenities in the house. How

quickly she adjusted.

In the ’90s, she moved to B.C. But before moving to B.C., while

she was in England — she had four kids from India, and then two were

born in England — raising six kids on one income was not easy. She went

out, and she got a job. She worked in the health care system. She

started off working as a housekeeper, and before we knew it, with her

dedication to work, she picked up the language, and there she was

working in the maternity ward very, very quickly and where she stayed

until she retired.

Her love always was her house, her family. Her love was her

garden. In England they had victory gardens, and my mom applied for one

of those. None of us could understand when she was going to have time to

work on her allotment, but she did. She would go to work, do all the

housework, and still go take a 20-minute walk to go to the allotment and

work there, and she loved that.

She loved flowers. I wear this scarf in her honour today because

when this was gifted to me, I walked in to visit her, and she looked at

this scarf, and she said: “You need to wear colour and flowers more

often.” Life is very, very short. She had many challenges, but the

amazing thing with my mom is that she never saw the challenge; she saw

the opportunities. For her, the cup was always half-full. Even when I

would say to her all the terrible things that were happening, she would

say: “Don’t think about that. Think about the positive

things.”

She had six kids, as I mentioned; 14 grandkids; and 11

great-grandkids — my little Alliya, my great-granddaughter, is her only

great-great-granddaughter; and she is survived by them. For my mom, we

were not just her family, not just us. It was the six kids that my aunt,

the one who passed away in ’75, had. I can say that except for the last

three years, there wasn’t a wedding, there wasn’t an anniversary, there

wasn’t an engagement, there wasn’t a party that was held in England, the

United States or in Canada that she would miss, because she felt it was

her responsibility, being the oldest, to always be there.

She was Bibi to everybody. My kids ask me sometimes: “What does

the word bibi mean?” I said: “I don’t know.” Because at one

stage my mom was called Bibi by her brothers and her sisters-in-law, I

started to call her Bibi. Then my kids called her Bibi — and the

grandkids, everybody. Even in the nursing home, for the last year, she

was Bibi there too, to all the staff.

A big, big thank-you to the staff at Laurel Place, who provided

awesome, awesome care for her.

Mom, your love, your tenacity, your resilience and your

willingness to take an opportunity are inside each and every one of us.

Thank you. We love you.

[10:30 a.m.]

Oral Questions

ECONOMIC RECOVERY PLAN

A. Wilkinson: Five months ago, on March 23 of this year, the Premier announced

that there would be an economic recovery plan put together by a group

known as the Economic Recovery Task Force.

On July 29, the most prominent member of that task force, the B.C.

Business Council, released their own plan out of frustration that there

has been no work product to see from the Premier’s Economic Recovery

Task Force. What the head of the B.C. Business Council, Greg D’Avignon,

had to say was: “The provincial government has not had an economic

recovery strategy. We’ve had a health recovery strategy masking as an

economic strategy.”

The obvious question to the Premier is: where’s the plan,

Premier?

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his question. Certainly,

we have been going through an extraordinary time here in British

Columbia, an unprecedented downturn in the economy and a closure of many

sectors.

But unlike other parts of the country, we were able to keep many

components of our economy going and moving throughout the pandemic.

We’re all very proud of the work our front-line workers did, whether

they were in health care or whether they were keeping our supply chains

going, making sure that people could access their food. These were all

imperative components of our recovery.

We started by focusing on keeping people safe. I know the member

and I have disagreed on this, but we believe that without confidence in

our public health, we will not have confidence in our

economy.

We’ve been making investments systematically over the past number

of months with the advice and counsel of the Economic Recovery Task

Force. I’m very confident that the $3.5 billion that we put into the

economy over the period of a number of months and the now $2.5 billion

that the Minister of Finance will be announcing more about in the days

ahead is the exact direction that the Economic Recovery Task Force

wanted us to go in.

The member has mentioned one group, the Business Council, which

represents the largest employers in the province. The B.C. Chamber of

Commerce was there, the boards of trade from our two major cities, the

Federation of Labour, representatives of the not-for-profit sector, from

the creative sector and also Indigenous people.

In addition to the task force, we invited all British Columbians

to participate, as I believe we should. We’re assembling all of that

information, focusing on making sure that people are safe in their

communities and people can productively get back into the economy. I

believe we’ll see more fruit from that labour over the coming

days.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Official Opposition on a

supplemental.

A. Wilkinson: Well, British Columbia is the third-largest province in Canada,

with five million people. The three other large provinces all have

announced economic recovery plans: Quebec on June 3, eight million

people; Ontario, July 6, with 15 million people; and Alberta, June 29,

with four million people. Somehow, British Columbia’s left out of the

parade.

Another one of the members of the Premier’s economic recovery

team, Bridgitte Anderson of the Vancouver Board of Trade, had this to

say: “We’ve known for months that many businesses were suffering, and

now we’re starting to see the true picture, and it is a terrible one.

Thousands of businesses have ceased to exist.” The number provided by

the Vancouver Board of Trade, backed up by B.C. Stats and Stats Canada,

is that 14,000 businesses have permanently shut down in British Columbia

since March 23.

Premier, where is the plan?

Hon. J. Horgan: Well, the plan has been evolving from the beginning. Again, I want

to remind all members of this House that if the people of British

Columbia are not confident to come out and participate in the economy,

then they’re not going to see the success that we need here in British

Columbia. That’s why we focused on keeping people safe. That’s why we

focused on making sure that those that were dislocated….

Interjection.

Hon. J. Horgan: Do you want to hear the answer, Member? It’s clear that the

official opposition, this being the first time this week that the Leader

of the Opposition has stood in this place, are not necessarily

interested in the answers that I want to give. But I will persist. I

will persist to get through the challenges of only a dozen hecklers on

the other side.

[10:35 a.m.]

Despite that, they don’t want to hear about $2.5 billion worth of

economic stimulus that will be coming from the Minister of Finance in

the days ahead. We’ve been working with all British Columbians — not

just the Economic Recovery Task Force but all British Columbians — so

that we can continue to lead the country, as we were before the

pandemic.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Official Opposition on a second

supplemental.

A. Wilkinson: Well, I suppose it’s understandable that the Premier is a bit

irritable, because the people of British Columbia are becoming very

irritable with the lack of any kind of plan coming from the provincial

government. Their lack of confidence has a good basis in the inaction of

this Premier.

The Premier said, on March 23: “We’re putting together a task

force so that we can indeed lay out, with confidence, to the public that

there’s a plan.” That was five months ago, Premier. The rest of the

world is already moving ahead.

The Premier seems to lay his hopes on a health recovery plan.

That’s not going to do it, Premier. Health is one of 20 ministries in

your government. The other 19 have roles to play. They’ve got to be out

there, establishing consumer confidence, telling people that it’s okay

to participate in life again, saving thousands more businesses from

insolvency in the next six weeks.

The obvious question, Premier, is: is there any plan at all, or

have you been dithering for five months while other organizations

release plans behind your back?

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his participation

this week in question period.

We have been working diligently with every sector to ensure that

we can have a secure restart of the economy, focusing on people,

focusing on making sure that people in every corner of the province have

confidence so they can go back into the economy. I can say that when the

members of the Economic Recovery Task Force, myself, the Minister of

Finance and the Minister of Jobs, Economic Development and

Competitiveness were meeting weekly, we were talking about how we could

kick-start the economy by providing confidence.

That confidence does not come from hectoring from the opposition.

It comes from the cooperation that existed until just recently between

all of us in this House, with one common purpose to lift all British

Columbians up, focusing on people, making sure that every corner of the

province, every element of the economy, was firing on all

cylinders.

That’s what we’ve been working on. That’s what the Minister of

Finance has been doing, and every other minister of this government,

with great success.

SITE C POWER PROJECT

G. Kyllo: Now, Site C is the largest capital project that the current

government is undertaking in our province — a ten-year construction

schedule — and therefore deserving of significant attention and

oversight.

Only a few weeks ago the Minister of Energy and Mines announced

serious concerns around the construction of the Site C dam project. Now,

the former minister, the member for Nelson-Creston, had confirmed in

June 2017 that Site C was “on time and on budget.” Now we see the

current minister attempting to shift the blame to the pandemic, even

though the report from B.C. Hydro covers a period largely before

COVID-19 arrived.

To the Energy Minister, when exactly — and details matter here —

was the Energy Minister informed by B.C. Hydro that both the project

construction

schedule and cost were at significant risk?

Hon. B. Ralston: It is useful to review the opposition’s record, when they were in

government, on Site C. They started the project without proper oversight

and without a credible budget. They rushed through the approval of the

design, which included significant geological risks. I’m sure they will

remember the two tension cracks that occurred under their government,

which led the B.C. Hydro to announce an increase in cost and

construction time in November of 2017.

Our government asked the B.C. Utilities Commission to review the

project, and they found that it was already over budget and behind

schedule. Let me quote from the 2017 B.C. utilities review. The BCUC is

“not persuaded” that the Site C project “will remain on

schedule for a

November 2024 in-service date.”

[10:40 a.m.]

That’s the record of the previous government, and that’s the

factual record that’s before the public at this time.

G. Kyllo: Well, the B.C. Utilities Commission actually informed government

that they had choices, and it was this government that made the decision

to continue construction. It was also this government that put in place

the oversight board that reported directly to Treasury Board. On May 9,

2019, the member for Nelson-Creston said Site C reports “are reviewed

and approved by the public assurance board…which is accountable to

government and reports regularly to Treasury Board.”

What is the minister saying now? That B.C. Hydro has been

concealing information, has kept him in the dark? That he was not aware

of the scheduling and construction cost risks at Site C until this

presser just a few weeks ago? Or is the minister and his government

saying that they have let the project run adrift and have not been

asking appropriate questions?

A question to the Minister of Energy. Why should British

Columbians have any confidence in this government’s ability to manage a

project that was on time and on budget when they took over

responsibility?

Hon. B. Ralston: The previous government recklessly pushed Site C past the point of

no return. Indeed, the then Premier said: “I will get it past the point

of no return.” They refused to let the independent energy watchdog, the

B.C. Utilities Commission, review the project. They signed off on a

design that included known geological risks. They spent billions of

dollars without proper oversight in their efforts to push this project

past the point of no return.

Our government has been clear. Site C is not a project we would

have started, but we weren’t willing to ask British Columbians to take

on $4 million in debt with nothing in return. Because of the choices

made by the old government, there were cost pressures on the project in

summer 2017, but we had been managing them. We are now facing geological

risks in the design that the old government approved.

It’s important to remember that the project was on

schedule prior

to the COVID-19 pandemic. In March, B.C. Hydro significantly scaled down

the project and focused only on essential work and meeting critical

milestones. This was done in line with advice from the provincial health

officer to ensure the safety of workers and local communities. Thanks to

this approach, we are on track to achieve river diversion, a key step in

constructing the project, this fall. B.C. Hydro is in the process of

safely scaling construction activities back up in line with advice from

public officials.

I’ve been clear. I’m concerned with the reports that the member

mentions that B.C. Hydro recently filed with the Utilities Commission.

B.C. Hydro has initiated a re-baselining process of the Site C project

to review the cost and time required to complete the project. I’ve also

brought on Mr. Peter Milburn, a former deputy minister, as a special

adviser. Mr. Milburn will play an important role in examining the

project. He will provide me and our government with independent advice

and a fresh perspective.

GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO COVID-19

A. Olsen: We hoped that the fall would mark the beginning of the end of the

COVID-19 pandemic. Public health officials and British Columbians,

though, are wary of the possibility of a second wave. Just yesterday we

had an announcement of 85 new cases. That’s the third-highest,

single-day jump since the beginning of the pandemic.

There’s growing tension in our province around kids going back to

school, our loved ones in care homes, the fall flu season, individuals’

financial security and, as well, stalled sectors of our economy. There

are fears that we might be facing a second lockdown and another round of

social distancing measures.

In March, all parties in this House got together to unanimously

approve a $5 billion fiscal package to address the immediate health

challenges as well as to seed an economic recovery. However, we’re

seeing the impact of the lockdown, particularly on the mental health and

well-being of British Columbians.

My question is for the Premier. Few people could have predicted

this pandemic and the impacts we’ve experienced. As we go into the fall

with the uncertainty and the real possibility of a second wave, what

will his government do differently if we’re forced to bring back more

severe social distancing protocols?

[10:45 a.m.]

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the interim leader of the Green Party for the

question.

We have learned a great deal, as British Columbians, as

legislators and as individuals, about the consequences of COVID-19 and a

global pandemic. We are a small, open economy. We depend on trade. We

depend on other jurisdictions being as robust as ourselves. Of course,

in a global pandemic, that is absolutely not the case.

We’ve learned a great deal, and we’ve taken several steps that I

believe will put us in good stead going into the fall. Firstly, we’ve

worked with the federal government to ensure that our borders can be

closed until such time as our neighbours and those who want to come to

British Columbia have a similar positive outcome with respect to cases,

with respect to hospitalizations and so on.

We worked with the federal government to establish a national sick

leave program, which will, as we go into the fall and into the

traditional flu season, be in a position to ensure that workers will not

put their colleagues and their customers at risk by going to work when

they’re sick. They’ll be able to stay at home with some economic

certainty that they won’t be penalized for that.

We’ve worked on ensuring that PPEs are in place — significant

amounts, not just for those in the health care sector but in every

sector, including education. Although there has been a lot of discussion

this week about the education restart that will be beginning in

September…. In my conversations with regular families, they understand

the challenges we’re facing. You articulated them very well in your

question.

I think all of us, at the end of the day, understand that these

are extraordinary times. That requires flexibility. It requires

cooperation. By and large, for the most part, all of us in this place

have been cooperating with a common purpose in mind. That is, to support

our neighbours, to support our constituents, to lift ourselves up so

that we can come out of this stronger than we went in.

What does the fall hold? Hon. Member, if you had an answer to

that, we would probably be moving a lot faster than we are right

now.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Third Party on a supplemental.

A. Olsen: Thank you to the Premier for his response.

Throughout this session, the B.C. Green caucus has used question

period as an avenue to propose and bring into the public discourse

various ideas, programs and projects that could benefit British

Columbians.

We’ve asked for greater transparency and accountability in our

senior care homes to protect some of our most vulnerable citizens. We’ve

advocated for a 12-month project to offer mental health support under

MSP to help British Columbians with this overwhelming health crisis.

We’ve pushed for additional support for child care centres and before-

and after-school care programs so parents can go back to work without

worrying about the safety of their children.

In the passing weeks, we’ve seen some of the challenges of

partisan politics. The Premier referred to it earlier in his responses.

We’ve also seen the power of working together. We remain committed to

collaborative, evidence-based governance.

My question is again to the Premier. If a second lockdown occurs,

what specific changes has his government made to ensure our systems and

structures are better able to protect the mental health and well-being

of British Columbians?

Hon. J. Horgan: I can say that the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions has

opened 143 treatment beds since the beginning of the pandemic. We’ve put

in place more counselling services for British Columbians. We’re working

diligently to make sure that the well-being of British Columbians,

whether it be…. Their physical health, their mental health and their

economic health are high priorities for us. People are the economy, and

without all people working in tandem to lift us all up, we’re going to

be falling behind.

I do know that as we go to the fall, the Minister of Health and

public health officials, led by Dr. Bonnie Henry…. We meet regularly. We

discuss trends. We look at other jurisdictions. We look at other

approaches from people in other parts of the world. How are they

addressing these issues? We take advice from the Green Party. We take

advice, in some cases, from the official opposition. We most assuredly

listen to people.

That brings us back to the K-to-12 restart. We know that school is

fundamentally important to our young ones. It’s absolutely critical. Now

we have to find a way to continue to provide that service for children

and for families in a way that is safe. That requires cooperation. That

requires listening to everybody — school districts, teachers, parents

and kids.

That’s what we’ve been doing, and I think that’s the best way

forward, hon. Member. Continued cooperation and collaboration are what

British Columbians want, and that’s what we intend to do.

[10:50 a.m.]

GOVERNMENT PLAN FOR

EDUCATION SYSTEM

REOPENING

D. Davies: I’d like to thank the Premier for that segue into my question on

plans, which we seem to be lacking endlessly.

The Minister of Education has had five months to plan for back to

school. But so far, he has only made it worse for parents. He has made

it worse for teachers. He has made it worse for school districts. He has

made it worse for children.

First, there would be a plan, one plan. Then there are 60 plans.

All of the students would be in class on September 8. Well then, maybe

not. There’d be a hybrid model. Then, in rare cases, there might be a

hybrid model. Well, then maybe more students would be in the hybrid

model after all.

I bet the Minister of Education is wishing he’d actually released

the plan on the 29th. All of the posturing from the minister won’t

change the fact that parents still have no idea what is going to be

happening in September. People are looking for leadership.

My question to the Minister of Education is: does he really

believe that waiting to tell parents until August 26 is fair to them or

their families?

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member from Fort St. John for his question. Again, I

want to unpack the question and the accusations and the vitriol and come

back to the key question. The key issue.…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, Members.

Hon. J. Horgan: The key issue for parents, the key issue for teachers, the key

issue for people in the K-to-12 system is making sure that it will work.

There are as many ideas for what will work as there are people, and the

best way to come to consensus is to listen, to be flexible, and that’s

what the Minister of Education has been doing. He’s been listening to

teachers. He’s been listening to parents. He’s been listening to the

people of Fort St. John and finding out that what they need is not the

same as the people in Parksville.

That’s what collaboration is all about — working together to

create plans that are individually focused on success for students and

comfort for families. That’s what we’re doing. I thought you’d be on

board with that.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Peace River North on a supplemental.

D. Davies: I thank the Premier for whatever that was.

Parents want a plan. Parents need a plan. They need to know what

their children are going to be doing in the fall, if they need to find

care for them. Work schedules for families need to be sorted

out.

A plan. We’ve had five months. The minister has said this over and

over again, that he has been planning the return to school since schools

were suspended in March. Well, we did not get anything on July

I’m going to quote one family here. You’re right, Premier. I’ve

talked to many, many families, and I know that they’ve reached out to

the minister as well.

“Both my husband and I are facing unprecedented work schedules in

September, and now I not only deal with my work; I have four kids at

home, one with autism. My children are in grades 2, 4, 5 and 7. I am not

a teacher, and I have no child care for our kids.” This is one message

that echoes so many concerned, scared families across the province.

Whether it’s child care or after school or returning to work, why is the

minister, why is this government, leaving it until August 26 to get a

plan out to families?

Mr. Speaker: Members, before we get to the answer, I just might say that, of

course, this line of questioning is particularly important to parents

around the province, so it will be important that we have every

opportunity to clearly hear the question and clearly hear the answer.

Thank you.

Hon. J. Horgan: With respect to the family that the hon. member cites, I

absolutely understand the anxiety and apprehension that that family and

countless families across British Columbia are feeling. The start of the

school year in a normal year is apprehensive for many families. The

challenges that the member outlined exist in a pandemic and outside of a

pandemic. The challenge, of course, will not be resolved with

accusations and criticism. It will be resolved with cooperation and

collaboration, and that’s exactly what we’re doing.

Now, I appreciate that the Leader of the Opposition would want us

to table a plan so that he could immediately criticize it. We have been

working with the people who deliver education in British Columbia, the

vice-principals, the principals, the school trustees — the duly elected

school trustees who want to have input into how services are delivered

in their community. The families that are concerned about their children

want to know that everyone is behind them, and that’s what we’re

doing.

The Minister of Education has been focusing on bringing people

together, finding the best way forward, to have a mix of in-class and

virtual education for the hundreds of thousands of students in British

Columbia. That is not good enough for the official opposition, because

they’ve got nothing else to do but complain.

[10:55 a.m.]

S. Bond: It doesn’t matter how much the Premier stands and attempts to

bluster and create an answer today. Our job is to bring the concerns of

parents to the Legislature, and that’s exactly what we are doing today.

They are real, and they are significant concerns.

Parents have been counting down the days on their calendars to the

beginning of school. Well, apparently the Minister of Education hasn’t

been. Parents know that September is coming, and they’ve tried to start

their planning. They’ve looked for child care. They’re trying to arrange

after-school care. They’re talking to their bosses about what a return

to work would look like. The key to all of that is knowing that their

children would be back in class. But instead of putting parents at ease,

the minister has actually made it worse. Every day something

changes.

How does the minister expect parents to plan when he has failed so

miserably to have a coherent plan for a safe return to

school?

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for her question.

Again, I will repeat what we’ve been saying for a number of weeks

now. There is apprehension within the community. There is concern within

parent communities, within the education sector about how we will

proceed in a global pandemic. Sometimes I think you forget about that,

hon. Members. We are in a global pandemic where circumstances are

changing by the day.

I know with absolute certainty, even though there’s anxiety in the

community, the vast majority of parents understand that we will have to

work together with teachers, with child care providers, with others in

the community to make sure that we can deliver this vitally important

service. That’s what we’ve been focused on. By and large, we’ve had

cooperation and collaboration throughout this House to do that. Today’s

not one of those days.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Prince George–​Valemount on a

supplemental.

S. Bond: Well, the Premier, I am positive, and the minister have heard from

parents all across British Columbia. To suggest that there is a plan

that is comprehensive and understandable is simply not true.

Parents understand the need for students to return to class, and

so does the opposition. They also understand the need for everyone to

stay safe when doing so, and so does the opposition. What they don’t

understand and it’s our job to bring to this House is why the minister

had five months to plan, he ran a trial in June, and he still is only

figuring out the basics.

Will all students have access to a hybrid model? Why did the

minister cut $12 million out of distance learning for the fall? Why

can’t he tell students the day that school will start? That’s what

parents are asking, and frankly, to the Premier, they expect

answers.

The minister’s inability to plan has left parents in a lurch. So

to the Premier, who just yesterday said, “At the end of the day, the

decisions rest with me and my government,” this mess is on his

shoulders.

Can he actually stand up today and tell parents that he thinks

it’s fair that they’re going to have to wait until August 26 to reveal

details about a return to school?

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I thank the member for her question.

Listen, we all understand the importance of education to our kids,

to our communities, to our economy. We all understand that we’re in a

global pandemic. At least, I thought we all understood that. We all

understand that we need to ensure that parents, trustees, administrators

and, most importantly, teachers and other support staff within the

school community are all on the same page.

These are disparate people. I appreciate that the opposition

didn’t pay a lot of attention to education, other than through the

courts, over their time in government, but we’re trying to bring

everyone together to have a genuine discussion about how best to deliver

services in communities. That’s what we’ve been doing — the only

jurisdiction in North America that had kids back in classrooms in June

so that we could shape out where we’re going to go in September. That

puts us light years ahead of every other jurisdiction in the

country.

[11:00 a.m.]

I don’t know if you’ve been paying any attention, hon. Members,

but just to the south of us there is absolute chaos when it comes to

delivering education services in the United States. Here in British

Columbia, we continue to work every day with the providers of education,

the kids who need it and the parents who are waiting for it. That’s the

appropriate way forward. I thought you would see that.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON

HOMELESSNESS AND COMMUNITY

SAFETY

T. Stone: For months now, we’ve been highlighting in this House and outside

this House how much worse homelessness has been getting in communities

right across British Columbia. Small businesses being broken into daily.

Small businesses worrying about the safety of their employees and their

customers. People having to step over other people on sidewalks. Parents

worrying about finding needles in playgrounds. Property damage and crime

is getting worse and worse under this government’s watch.

Now, this is happening right here in Victoria. Just steps from

this Legislature in Beacon Hill Park is an encampment, which is getting

worse and worse by the day. It is in the heart of the Minister of

Finance’s riding. She has the ability to do something about it, and

she’s choosing not to do anything about it.

Just a further few blocks away, in downtown Victoria, there is a

rapidly deteriorating situation because of the government disaster which

they call the hotel acquisition program. It’s been a disaster. People

are running around with machetes, businesses being broken into, personal

safety being threatened. Presumably, the Premier and a whole truckload

of cabinet ministers and NDP MLAs drive right through this area every

single day, and they choose not to do anything about it.

Of course, this is happening, we know as well, in the Minister of

Housing’s own riding in Coquitlam. The problem there is getting worse

and worse by the day. Now: “We are tax-paying citizens trying to raise a

family and being held hostage in our own community. This is not what a

young child needs to be experiencing. Something needs to be done to

protect the community.” Those are the words of Rob Lewis, who lives just

down the street from an NDP hotel that’s warehousing homeless people in

Coquitlam. For Rob and his neighbours, the situation in Coquitlam is

getting worse and worse by the day.

To the Minister of Housing, it’s time to stop blaming others. It’s

time to step down from the high horse and actually be accountable for

the decisions and the actions that she is making and that the government

is making on this file.

When will the minister provide the 24-7 on-site supports so

desperately needed to help our vulnerable and at-risk citizens get

better, and when will she, when will the Premier, when will this

government start listening to small businesses and communities who are

being negatively affected by this government’s actions on this

file?

Hon. J. Darcy: Thank you to the member opposite for the question. Members

opposite have been raising these issues about homelessness and the

overdose crisis over the last number of weeks. I don’t need to speak on

the Minister of Housing’s behalf, but I think every member of this House

knows that this government has made historic investments in ending

homelessness and in building the supports that people need who are

struggling with mental health and addictions.

It is absolutely true….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, if you could kindly respect the minister’s

opportunity to respond. Thank you.

Hon. J. Darcy: It is absolutely true that many of the people who are homeless and

that we have been working to house are struggling with mental health and

addictions. The Leader of the Opposition, in his heckling earlier, said:

“No plan for the overdose crisis either, hon. Speaker.”

Well, let me be very clear. We know that the spike in overdoses….

We know the overdose deaths were going down under the previous

government’s watch. They were going up. Beginning in 2012, the numbers

went up for five years. The next year, they went up, and then under our

watch, we began to bring them down.

Hon. Speaker, I want to read you a quote.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. J. Darcy: I’d like to read a quote.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Minister.

Hon. J. Darcy: I want to read a quote: “There’s no question that during COVID, in

particular, the illicit drug supply has become increasingly dangerous,

because what is actually in these drugs, what they’re laced with, you

just really don’t know. COVID has just introduced a tremendous amount of

additional uncertainty. We’re hearing that from front-line workers.

We’re hearing that from law enforcement. I do believe that that’s

factually accurate.”

That’s not a quote from me. That’s a quote from the member for

Kamloops–South Thompson to the media in his community within the last

couple of days.

[11:05 a.m.]

Since COVID-19 hit, we have been working at breakneck speed. We

are the only province that has been responding across the continuum with

harm reduction, with access to safe supplies of prescription

alternatives to separate people from the poisoned drug supply and also

with treatment beds — with the recent announcements, 150 adult treatment

beds. Today the biggest investment ever in youth treatment beds in the

history of this province — 123 new beds on top of 20 new ones in

Chilliwack.

Under that government’s watch, youth treatment beds actually went

down the same year a public health emergency was declared. This is

something we need to be working on together. Let’s bring the same

non-partisan spirit to solving the overdose crisis and the homelessness

crisis as we have done in keeping each other safe and caring for one

another through COVID-19.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

Hon. L. Beare: I have the honour to table the 2019-2020 report for the B.C. Arts

Council and its supporting documentation to you.

Petitions

Hon. A. Kang: I rise virtually today in the House to present a petition to the

Minister of Health on behalf of my constituents in Burnaby–Deer Lake

regarding the modernization of traditional Chinese medicine practitioner and

acupuncturist regulations.

I’ll be forwarding this petition to the Clerk’s office. There are more

than 800 signatures, and the petitioners from the B.C. Association of

Traditional Chinese Medicine and Acupuncture Practitioners are still in the

process of gathering more signatures.

N. Simons: I’m presenting a petition from residents of the Sunshine Coast calling

for improvements to the ferry service between Langdale and Horseshoe Bay,

including hourly sailings, more boats, faster boats, resident priority,

medical priority and a redesigned reservation system.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call continued estimates debate, Ministry of

Finance.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF

FINANCE

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); R. Chouhan in the

chair.

The committee met at 11:10 a.m.

On Vote 25: ministry operations, $267,491,000

(continued) .

S. Bond: Good morning, hon. Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to

continue in the estimates process. We appreciate it. Thank you to the

minister for the work that was accomplished yesterday.

Again, we have provided her and her team with a bit of a road map.

Just to recap, we’ve had some discussion about the general budget

questions. Yesterday near the end of the day we moved into a

section

that we want to spend some time on — looking at the supplementary

estimates, the COVID-19 action plan, the $5 billion. So let’s start

there again.

I’m going to repeat the question for the minister that I presented

late yesterday. She was going to do some work on trying to break out the

numbers. I think British Columbians and members of the opposition,

people in the Legislature, probably even members on the government

bench, need some clarity about the spending and the notional

allocations.

In question period today, for example, we heard the Premier repeat

over and over: $2.5 billion. Well, the minister, in her public

statements around pandemic spending, talked about $2.8 billion for

people, $2.2 billion for businesses. Yesterday we asked the question

about the original conversation that the minister had about the $1.5

billion economic recovery fund — and $700 million, we think, trying to

get to the $2.2 billion total. But to be clear, to the minister, there

is a significant lack of clarity about the split of the funding, where

it’s going and how much is being allocated to what.

Let’s start there. The funding for businesses originally included

$1.5 billion and $700 million, but we now know the property tax cut is

outside of the $5 billion allotment. Let’s start with that. Can the

minister please outline for us and clarify some of the discrepancies

with the numbers, including, perhaps, the number the Premier was using

today, which was $2.5 billion? We have no idea what that

referenced.

[11:15 a.m.]

Hon. C. James: I believe, because it’s the way the members had outlined the

process…. They want to walk through and look at the supplementary 1 and

then supplementary 2, which is the federal money.

The member mentioned the additional $2 billion. The discussion

around the additional $2 billion will come in the second discussion. If

we can just right now focus on the $5 billion and the first

supplementary vote, and then focus on the second, I think it just makes

the numbers a bit clearer, if that’s fine with the member. I can talk

about the second vote if the member wishes, but I think that’s the way

the members outlined it for us.

When the plan was originally announced on March 23, we put

together…. As the member will know well, and this was part of the

discussion in the Legislature…. As I said at the very start of our

estimates discussion, it’s extraordinary times, knowing that we would

need to put together supports. I’ve expressed my appreciation to the

official opposition — to the Third Party, as well — for coming together

in those extraordinary times, recognizing that we didn’t have specific

programs at that point, that we were looking at a need and that we all

wanted to come together in the Legislature to be able to address that

need.

The member is quite right. The initial estimates talked about $2.8

billion for individuals and $2.2 billion for businesses — of the $5

billion. That was the rough allocation, again, that we put together as a

notional allocation, given the fact that we were then going to look at

where the programs and services were needed. We’ve continued to allocate

expenditures based on need, based on critical services, based on the

financial supports that need to be there and based on economic recovery.

As the needs arise, additional dollars get allocated and additional

dollars and expenditures will go out.

Just to give the members the specifics around the numbers and the

expenditure allocations that are in place right now — again, based on

the $5 billion — it’s $3.115 billion for individuals and $1.885 billion

for businesses. That includes the $1.5 billion that’s put aside for

economic recovery.

In addition to that, there are tax measures of approximately $1.35

billion that have been introduced in this time period — again, a request

that came forward from a number of businesses and organizations. We were

able to look at adding those additional dollars: $543 million for

individuals and $803 million for businesses.

[11:20 a.m.]

Then, finally, there were some additional revenue measures that

total about $37 million that have also been introduced, $5.5 million for

individuals and $31.5 million for businesses.

Again, as the pandemic continues…. I know the member knows this,

but I want to emphasize again that as further needs come forward, as

further shifts happen, perhaps, in the pandemic, and as we’re continuing

to go into the economic recovery, there could be additional shifts as,

obviously, needs arise and as we get the additional dollars out the door

around the $1.5 billion as well.

S. Bond: I appreciate the numbers that the minister has shared. Let’s just

start with her last comment, that there may…. To be clear, I think it is

important…. The minister has been very good about recognizing the other

parties in the House who made the $5 billion allocation possible. All of

us recognized that government needed to move quickly and that government

needed to provide additional supports for businesses and for British

Columbians who were impacted by COVID. All of us agreed on that. I think

that was an important part of getting down to business, in essence, and

trying to figure out how those supports are being put in

place.

While I appreciate what the minister has just listed for us, we’re

interested in as many specific details as possible. We were clear about

that in our agreement to support the $5 billion plan — that we needed to

make sure people knew exactly how that money was going to be spent. Even

after the minister’s last answer, I’m not sure that we have a specific

sense of the spending.

Let’s start with her last comment, at the last answer, that shifts

may occur. Is the minister committed, and the government, to working

within the announcement that was made — $2.8 billion for people, $2.2

billion for businesses? Is the shift that she’s referencing talking

about being within that envelope — for, in the case of business, $2.2

billion — or looking at, perhaps, a shift less for business, more for

people? Ultimately, we know that supporting business actually helps

support people with jobs and all of those things as well. But maybe the

minister could just describe what she meant by “there may be more

shifts.”

[11:25 a.m.]

Hon. C. James: I want to start with the discussion around the $5 billion and the

conversation the member just raised around accountability, because I

think it’s a really critical piece. It’s a critical piece for the

public, and it’s a critical piece for all of us in this Legislature who

came together to approve the $5 billion.

As I said at the time that we were having the debate around the $5

billion, it was important to recognize that this would be a contingency

vote. We would be accountable for those dollars — accountable to the

public, ultimately, as it’s none of our money. These are the public’s

dollars. That’s important.

That has continued as programs have been developed. Again, they’re

posted on the website. The information is available.

I also think it’s important because not everyone will have taken a

look at the July economic statement that we put out. In fact, we updated

the $5 billion spend in the July economic statement. We did provide

further information, again, to the public in that announcement and

updated the fact that the $5 billion had expanded to $6.3 billion. We

talked about that in the July statement. We also included, in fact, a

list of approved amounts and the notional allocations that we’ve made

for businesses and individuals. That was actually released as part of

that.

We have, in fact, continued the accountability that I think the

member and I would completely agree is critical through this process.

That was updated, in fact, in July — past March.

I think it’s also really critical to recognize — and this is part

of the unprecedented times that we’re in — that we are not through the

pandemic. We are not through, as we know when we look at numbers, when

we look at people talking about a second wave and when we look at

talking about the preparation for the regular flu season that occurs in

British Columbia. We have a long way to go. We are only partway through

this year.

We have put notional allocations in for programs and services, as

we should, to be fiscally responsible, to make sure that we’re being

responsive. But we also know that there are immediate needs that will

arise and that we are going to have to look at those immediate

needs.

We are still, as I said, dealing with the pandemic. I think it’s

just important, as we go through this process, to recognize that, yes —

I couldn’t agree more. In fact, we have been accountable, as I said,

bringing forward updates in July. We’ll continue to bring forward those

updates.

I think it’s really important to recognize, when I talk about

meeting the needs of people and businesses and talk about the fact that

things may shift, numbers may shift, depending on those needs,

additional supports have to be put in place and the spending allocations

based on the actual needs that are out there.

[11:30 a.m.]

S. Bond: Thank you to the minister. I certainly, to a large part, agree

with what the minister said. We will continue to find ways to try to not

only support the idea of transparency, but to make sure that that

continues to happen.

The minister is correct. There have been various updates.

Obviously, right now the public is more worried about how they’re going

to get through their day and how they get their kids to school. You

know, we have these questions, but I think we have to put it in the

context of families and what they’re actually trying to

manage.

As, I think, a fairly straightforward question, I hope…. We’re

still sorting out what the $2.2 billion in business supports looks like.

I understand the need for shifts and being responsive. Perhaps the

minister can tell us today or confirm that the $1.5 billion recovery

plan…. All of that $1.5 billion — will that go to support

businesses?

Hon. C. James: I just want to recognize the approach that we’re taking through

the economic recovery, because there’s no question that jobs are the

primary focus of the economic recovery. Obviously, that’s a key place —

building a sustainable economy and jobs — which obviously focuses on

business.

[11:35 a.m.]

The member will know the values that we’re utilizing to look at

proposals as they come forward, to make sure that they focus on jobs, to

make sure they focus on the hardest-hit sectors, because, again, we have

to remember that COVID has not been an equal opportunity, so to speak,

pandemic. It has been a pandemic that has harder hit hospitality,

tourism, youth, women.

Again, we’re taking a look, through economic recovery, at how the

proposals that come forward address that piece. We’re also taking a

look, as the member has heard me talk about previously, at the values

that matter to the people of this province — reconciliation, equity —

and making sure that everyone has an opportunity to be able to succeed

in the economy. The announcement, obviously, is not out yet, but there

are a number of different ways and tools the government has to be able

to address that.

The member asked about the $1.5 billion. Will that be spent

specifically on businesses? I think we have to remember that we have

lots of levers, as government. There will be tax pieces, not necessarily

a spending piece. There will be a tax piece, a revenue piece, that could

come into play, as we’re looking at this.

One of the areas…. I won’t second-guess, but I can certainly

assure the members — and I think it will be no surprise — that a large

portion of the focus in a lot of the presentations that have come

forward to us has been around training and retraining opportunities for

people. That’s something that benefits both people and

businesses.

I think we also, just to come back, again, to the numbers…. We

have to remember that, in fact, there’s already more than $1.5 billion

spent on businesses with the numbers we already have. As I already read

out to the member — the $1.8 billion for businesses. In addition to

that, the $803 million in tax approaches that have benefited businesses.

Again, it comes back to the range of levers.

I’m not going to second-guess what the specifics will be, but just

as we’ve done with our July update, where we updated the numbers, where

we updated the notional allocations, that will occur again after the

recovery plan comes out in September. That will give us more details and

more specifics to be able to look at the allocations.

A reminder that we are not through the pandemic, and we are not

through the fiscal year. I expect that there could be further items that

come forward over the next while.

S. Cadieux: The minister’s answers are very interesting.

I do appreciate that this is a difficult time. As my colleague

said, there will be some shifting of spending. Some things that were

proposed…. Certainly, the value of the rent relief program, when

announced, was significantly higher than the actuals. Numbers have

shifted around, and additional supports have been added, where needed. I

understand that.

The minister’s answers today are actually making the situation

much more cloudy, in terms of where the $5 billion has been spent, than

they are providing clarity. So I’m going to go back for a

minute.

The minister, in her answers, referenced that $1.885 billion of

the $5 billion is earmarked for businesses. A simple question. Let’s

break that down. The minister, in providing that number, said that that

includes the $1.5 billion in economic recovery dollars, which leaves us

$385 million.

Can the minister please explain what the $385 million contains? I

assume that includes the $120 million outlined in table 3 — $79 million

for the commercial rent assistance program and $40 million in emergency

financial relief for organizations. But where is the other, then, $165

million? If the minister could please clarify what’s in that $385

million.

[11:40 a.m. - 11:45 a.m.]

Hon. C. James: I understand the member and the focus on the…. I hear some

frustration as well. I think it’s just…. It is no question, as I talked

about the unprecedented times. It is no question, as well, when we are

building in allocations. I think that’s the most important piece to

remember in all of this. We are talking about allocations that have been

put into the $5 billion, allocations that we expect need to be there. I

think the member recognized and acknowledged at the beginning that there

will be shifts in those allocations, depending on need.

The member is right quite. The $1.885 billion — to break that

down, the $1.5 billion for recovery, as we’ve talked about, and then the

member asked for some specifics around the $385 million in that area and

financial supports. So $254 million of that has been allocated for child

care providers, for businesses to ensure those spaces. The member will

know we provided funding for child cares to be able to hold onto those

spaces so that the child care spaces are there for workers when they go

back to work. It’s a key part of our restart and a key part of,

obviously, economic recovery as well.

And $79 million is notionally allocated on the commercial rental

assistance program that’s in place. Then there’s a $50 million

allocation for a number of other groups and organizations and businesses

that have come forward. At this point…. Again we expect that there will

be others utilizing this area, but so far it has supported the

agriculture sector, animal care sector, park operators and tourism. That

provides the member with the $385 million allocation.

S. Cadieux: I think that differs from the table, in that the table says $40

million for the emergency financial relief for organizations, not $50

million. The $254 million for child care, I understand that comes up, up

above. Again, that number is slightly different because from the table….

So we’re spending more on child care than was anticipated, by $4 million

at this stage.

I think the minister can understand. We’re not trying to criticize

that the minister is having to make changes or adjust allocations. We’re

not criticizing what, necessarily, the money is being spent on; we’re

just trying to get clarity and keep track of where the $5 billion is

going.

I understand that a number of the pots won’t yet be spent, because

the minister is planning and allocating, notionally, for the potential

for a second wave in the fall, in both critical services and financial

supports. I recognize that, and I recognize that the minister is hedging

her bets on the $1.5 billion for economic recovery with her comments

that, although jobs are the primary focus, that they might need to spend

on people.

I think the minister can understand. We are trying to get clarity

here, not just for ourselves as critics, understanding where the money

is being spent and how the money is being spent that we cooperatively

agreed needed to be spent to support both people and businesses. We have

yet to see the economic recovery plan that the province is going to

bring forward for that $1.5 billion. The $1.5 billion that is down from

the $2.2 billion promised for business, initially.

Understandably, the business sector, largely, is going to want to

know and understand that government is going to be there for them, too,

through this. They’ve been told that that’s the case. They’ve been told

the economic recovery fund is there for that purpose. That’s the reason

that the group was put together, to help advise government on what was

needed for businesses to get through this, for us to prevent additional

closures of businesses, which means the loss of more jobs on a permanent

basis.

[11:50 a.m.]

The minister is now talking about the fact that her government is

going to want to look at the hardest-hit sectors. I think that’s a

legitimate focus and focus on their values. Those are all things that I

think have to go into any decision — a focus on youth and women and

these sort of things in the recovery process. But then she also goes on

to hedge her bets and suggest that there are other levers for government

to use to support business — tax pieces and revenue measures.

They still affect the government’s budget. They still affect the

bottom line. If the minister is suggesting that she’s going to need to

spend less than the $1.5 billion in economic recovery supporting

business, instead needing to pull in new measures outside of what’s

proposed in the pandemic contingencies, then that is going to have an

impact on the budget and put the government in further

deficit.

I’m trying to understand where things are going. I’m trying to

understand what’s going to be available to the business sector. They’re

waiting. They put out a proposal, a recovery plan, that outlined all

sorts of things that needed to be done. We’re going to go into more

detail on that as well.

This is about accountability, Minister. The commentary that’s

being provided doesn’t give a lot of confidence that the minister is

committed to that economic recovery where business is

concerned.

I’m going to come back to the economic recovery. I’m going to move

on with my question here for the minister, just to get a little more

clarity on the other allocations. The minister said that notional

allocations have been set aside inside the health and mental health

section, the financial supports — so the emergency benefits —

section

and the crisis supplement section.

Can the minister tell us, to date, what has been spent in those

sections, therefore telling us what is notionally still available should

that be required in the fall?

[11:55 a.m.]

Hon. C. James: I want to start off with the discussion around the member asking

about specific numbers and why numbers change. The member is quite

right. These numbers are going to change. The member recognized that

herself in this discussion — that we have put together notional

allocations.

The member talked about hedging bets, putting numbers in to hedge

bets. It doesn’t have anything to do with hedging bets. It has to do

with meeting the needs of the people and the businesses of British

Columbia. It has to do with making sure that we can be responsive, that

we can address the crisis that is here and the issues that are

arising.

We are fully accountable for the spending of those dollars, both

through this process and through the Q1 report that will come out.

That’s where the member will get the specific expenditures that have

occurred on each specific line. Again, these are allocations that we’ve

talked about. We put out the allocations in the July estimates as

well.

The specifics around what has been spent thus far occurs in each

individual ministry. Again, we need to make sure that those numbers are

accurate. They will come out in the Q1 — that will happen in September —

around how far along we are in those actual expenditures. We, again,

will be fully accountable.

As I’ve done and as I’ll continue to do, I’m happy to provide

ongoing briefings for the members, if they wish, to be able to know

where things are coming once these reports come out. We’re more than

happy to sit down and go through where the changes occurred, why the

changes occurred, where the notional numbers are and where the

allocations have gone. That’s important to do. As I said, it will be a

public reporting out as well, through Q1, around the actual

expenditures.

Yes, there will be shifts. There’s no question. That’s important,

as I said, to be able to meet the needs.

The member also said that there may be spending in other areas.

Yes. I’ve talked about the other levers that government has, the other

tools that we have. Whether it’s through the tax system or otherwise,

there may be additional pieces that we can look at as government to,

again, provide relief for businesses and to provide support to

individuals.

Again, we’re, obviously, accountable. All of those get reported

out, as we go forward, with the regular reporting time periods. So more

than happy to provide, as I said, ongoing support and ongoing briefings

as the specifics come out in each of those Q numbers.

I see the Speaker noting the time, giving me the eye from the

corner. Noting the time, I ask that the committee rise, report progress

and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:58 a.m.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported progress, was

granted leave to sit again.

Hon. C. James moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:59 a.m.

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