\ .~ June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2124 SD - 1 The House met at 10:00 A.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Lands and Forests. MR. C. POWER: Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise this hon. House of the current status of the spruce budworm control programme with the bacteria and insecticide Bt. As the members of this hon. House are already 11Ware, the government had announced to carry out a limited proqramme in the spruce budworm control using the biocide Bt to protect the more valuable silviculturally treated forest areas in the Province .

The Bt spray proqramme, Mr. Speaker, has therefore been designed on the scale of a large field experiment to co11er approximately 35,000 acres. This can change slightly depen"liing upon the current -insect development. The insect development is beinCJ monitored const~tly but so far the insects ha11e not become acti11e due to cold weather and it is still early to judge whether the forecasted concentrations are correct or not. It is anticipated, Mr. Speaker, that spray operations will commence in mid-June.

The programme will cover all the silvicultural areas which were forecasted to receive moderate to severe infestations. These areas are distributed throughout the central part of the Island and range from the forest thinning areas near Maytown in the East to thinning areas at Halls Bay in the West and from Bay d'Espoir in the South Most of these areas are located on Crown lands with the rest on l!lrice limits. This is because of the nature of distribution of budworm infestation this year and also because silviculturally treated areas are being given priority over other infested forests.

Opeaational bases will be established at Gander Aizport, Bay d 'Espoir airstrip and on a Price woods road approximately five miles S6uth of Grand Falls. Five spray aircraft supplied by Beaver Airspray Inc., St. Jean, Quebec, will do the actual 5579

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2124 SD - 2 MR. C. POWER: spraying. These will be guided by forestey ~ technicians operating from helicopters. The total cost of the p;rogramme is estimated at approximately $600,000 to be shared jointly by Price, Bowater and government on an equal basis. Th:l;s Means that approximately $400,000 will be paid by Price and Bowater, leaving only $200,00 as government's sl".az:e of the total cost. This is quite significant because, Mr.

Speaker, it will allow the government to conduct a meaningful programme to protect the more valuable silviculture areas as well as to deteDiine the efficacy and viability of various Bt formulations and spray regimes at a cost sharing arrangement requiring the government to pay for only one-third of the total cost. The government can in turn utilize the equivalent funds elsewhere in forestry development. I would like to point out, Mr. Speaker, that this is the first time that the companies are sharing the cost of a spray proc;r- under this arrangement.

Previous arrangements called for greater government participation. I would therefore like to commend the companies for coming fozward to ac .cept this financial responsibility. This is evidence of the companies' desire to co-operate with the government in developing viable alternatives to chemical control of spruce budworm. This also shews that the companies are genuinely concerned with effective protection of forests and are co-operating with the government to the fullest extent. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPENa:R: (Simms) The hon. member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. G. FLIGHT: Mr.

Speaker, first let me thank the minister for making copies of his statement available yesterday. If other ministers in the ministry were so co-operative, Mr. Speaker, how easy it would be to do your job in this House. MR. J. MORGAN: (Inaudible) over there. MR. G. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, now that the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Mo:1:9an) has gotten into the debate, the previous Minister of Fares~, I would like to say to the minister the one thing he has to do to make sure that the Bt progrllii!IIIB this year is not muffed ssso

.JI:Ine 6, 1980 Tape No. 2125 EL - 1 MR. G. FLIGHT: and the money wasted the way the previous Minister of Forestry wasted the money - MR. SPEAJ(ER (Simms): Order, please ! MR. G. FLIGHT: - wasted $150,000 against the advice of all his officials, Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. G. FLIGHT: - and as a result the minister has to go into a new Bt programme on his own having no benefit or being able to take any technical advice or anything else from last year's programme because the minister did the spray programme in spite of what was being advised by his officials, wasted $150,000. Mr.

Speaker, I would just want to say that I commend the minister. This is a positive, good s·tatement. we support the Bt spray progrzumr.e as opposed to any other possible spray programme. We would hope that the results of this spray programme, the data gathered would enable the Province one day to have - if we have to have a spray programme, a long ter1n spray programme it should be with Bt. The fac:t that the companies are going to share the cost on a one-third basis is good n-s.

As the minister remembers in the estimates, the Budget Estimates, the Committee, the minister at that point in time was not aware that 1\bitibi Price was prepared to pay anything in this particular programme. Negotiations were ongoing and obviously they have been successful. Mr. Speaker, I support the statement made here by the minister and I would just say also, Mr. Speaker, that it is my feelinq that Price (Nfid~) and Bowaters should be paying more towards those kinds of programl!les.

They should be paying more towards the re!orestation and forest enhancement programmes than they are now_ and the minister is to be COIIQIIeiided for achieving what he has achieved up to this point in tii!IB. MR. SPEAKER: MR. L. BARRY: Order, please! Mr. Speaker. 5581

June 6, 1980 MR. SPEAXER (Simms) : Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. L. BARRY: Tape No. 2125 EL - 2 The bon. the Mr. Speaker, this statement is one of the mere pleasant tasks I will have to perform, I suspect, in the Bouse. Abi ti.bi Price and Asarco have reported to me that they have encountered encouraginq results from the under­ ground exploration program they have been conducting adjacent to the MacLeUJ. workings at Buchans. Dr. J.A.

MacGregor, General Manager, Abitibi-Price Minerals Division, info:rmed me that continuous mineral­ ization has been traced for 600 feet with thicknesses in some places exceeding 20 feet. Assaying is currently being carried out and results are expected to be available within a day or so. Dr. MacGregor said that because the new zone is largely below the deepest level of the current mining operation and at the extremity of development at the end of were the current de­ velopment is taking place, progress toward opening up the new zone would be slow.

The partners in the exploration venture, Abitibi and Asarco, are however encouraged by these recent results of their efforts and are optimistic: that they could lead to commercial extraction. While I must caution that Government will have to await receipt of the assays and further drilling reports before being able to identify the precise quantity of reserves, 5582

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2126 DW - 1 l1R. L. BARRY: I find this information exciting and ! believe it will lead to an extended life for the Buchans mining operation. I hope that together with work being carried on the Tulk's deposit, this will eventually eemove the cloud of uncertainty which has been over the people of Buchans for too many years. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. G. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, as the minister indicated, it was probably one of the most positve state­ ments he has made in this House but certainly, Mr.

Speaker, it is indeed positive, for myself it is probably the most self-satisfying time that I have stood in this House. Mr. Speaker, the feeling of uncertainity and insecurity in the town of Buchans this past three or four years has been unbelieveable, one would have to live there to recognize it. But they have never lost hope, Mr. SpeakerD That town has always felt for whatever reason that one day since there was ore, given the exploration that that mine would not shut down. Now I recognize we have to be cautious. I am aware of where the ore is that the minister referred to is situated.

It is indeed deep :·but there is no question that there is mineralization and lots of it in the Buchans area. It appears that Asarco have now confirmed what many people have been saying over th~s past two or three years even, that there is indeed ore right in the MacLean's area in the main ore body being mined at Buchans. And, Mr. Speaker, I am delighted, I am sure the people of Buchans are delighted at this positive note.

And I am sure also that they are feeling that, although there is a note of cautious optimism here that they are optimistic that Asarco will indeed mine the ore bodies referred to haee and it will indeed extend the life of the mine. 55B3 ~-----. -----

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2126 ow - 2 MR . G. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, with regards to the minister's reference to the Tulk's ore body, I would just ask the minister that there is every indication that the companies concerned are prepared to mine the Tulk's ore body. Without this news, mining that ore body in conjunction with the present operation would have extended the life expectancy of that mine. And I am not sure at this point in time that the ministry is co-operating with those companies to the point they should in as far as getting that Tulk's ore body under development. They have refused.

I understand, to fund the access road, they have refused at this point to make funds available to upgrade the access road to the mine site. MR. L. BARRY MR. G. FLIGHT: You are wrong. And, Mr. Speaker, to this point in time they have not indicated to the companies that they are prepared to put the kind of money into the infrastructure that is needed to get that ore body going. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, this particular ore body and this particular find needs very little assistance from the Government of Newfoundland because it is located right in the present area they are mining now. Mr.

Speaker, I just want to conclude by lining up with the positive attitude that the minister had with regard to this statement and would ask that the companies concerned get all the co-operation th~y rA~ ~=t in as far as getting these work~ngs and these new deposits under development. MR. SPEAKER (Simm!l: Any further statements? 558 ·1

June 6, 1980 MR. BARRY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. SABRY: Tape No. 2127 NM- 1 I have a further statement, Mr. Speaker - The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. - bnt I have to say that the carping negative tone of the member opposite on that recent announcement, I think it gives you the impression he is disappointed, that he ~ight not have a political issue next around. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER: MR. BARRY: to go well. MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER: hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Oh, oh! Order, please! A point of order. Order, please! A point of order.

He is disappointed that things are starting A point of order. A point of order has been raised oy the Mr. Speaker, it would be very difficult for me to raise such a point of order against such a distinguished lawyer as the Minister of Mines and Energy, Mr. Speaker, the man who believes that nobody in this House - AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER: MR. FLIGHT: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER: point of order'? MR. FLIGHT: minister indicated - SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. FLIGHT: A point of order. Order, please! - except a learned gentleman like himSelf A point of order. Order, please!

What is the bon. member's The point of order, Mr. Speaker, is the Hear, hear! - the minister indicated that I was carping, or being non-positive. I simply stated a fact. Mr. Speaker, this- government• SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! 5585

June 6, 19.80 Tape No. 2127 ml..,. 2 MR. n.IGaT: • has refused 1lp to this po~t in t.ilne., refused to assist the 1\llierican SmeJ.ting and Refining Company and Abitibi-Price - SOME HON. MEMBE;R!S: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAI<ER (Simms): Order, please~ MR. FLIGHT: - to put in the infrastructure, to put money :in the road - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. FLIGHT: .. to develop the Tulk' s ore body. They have refused. MR. SI'EAKER: Order, please~ ! woul.d not have to hear further debate. There is no pcint of order. The hon. m6nber has taken the opportunity to .clarify his position.

Further statements? The hen. ~inister of Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and it is unfortunate the member opposite had to put out such inaccuracies, you know - MR. SPEAKER: MR. BlUUl!l: MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. BlUUl!l: Order, please! Order, please! - in his COIIU!Ient. order, please! Oh, oh! Order, please! Further statements? The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr. Speaker, I was only too happ~ to assist the member for LaPoile (.Mr. Nearyl to kick off his climpaign last ~ght. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. BARRY: SOME HON. MEMaERS: B;ear, hear~ I wonder, Mr.

Speaker - Oh. oh: 5586 ----- ---.·--·-

June 6, 1980 MR. BARRY: of having it on Halloween is. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. BARRY: Tape No. 2127 NM- 3 I am just wondering what the significance Hear, hear! Order, please! Further statements? Mr. Speaker, I would like to just read to the House a letter which I have sent to the President of both the Iron Ore Company of Canada and of Wabush Mines, concerning the planned suspension of operations during the next couple of months at the mining operations in Labrador.

Needless to say we were disappointed to learn of IOC's - and the other letter to Wabush Mines - decision to suspend operations for a period of time this coming Summer. I acknowledge the fact of slumping markets for steel and hence for iron ore, but I hope this unfortunate state of affairs will not become so serious as to lead to further cutbacks in your company's operations in this Province. The fact that your plan envisages having the period of suspension coincide with the annual vacation period of most employees should ease the burden that would otherwise fall upon those people.

However, I understand that a number of employees have already used up their vacation period for this year. We are concerned about the welfare of those people and I would like to see some provision made that would prevent loss of income to them. In that regard we would request that your company 5587

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2128 AH-1 MR. BARRY: give serious consideration to adopting a course of action that would overcome the loss of pay that would be experienced. For example, is it possible to continue operating on a reduced scale during the period of the intended shutdown at least to the extent that those whose vacation periods have been used up might continue working? The result could be limited stockpiling of product which hopefully would not have to be carried long as inventory.

I appreciate that the purpose of the suspension is to reduce production in response to market conditions but at the same time there is the problem of adverse social and economic impact on the community about which I am sure you are concerned. I ask that IOC and Wabush Mines give serious consideration to some compromise arrangement that would avoid the necessity of layoffs. MR.STIRLING: Mr. Speaker. MR.S?EAKER (Simms): The hen. the member for Bonavista North. ---- .. MR. STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, if the minister would clarify whether his statement,which he has not given us a copy of, which I understand is in the form of a letter, is he making his comment as ·~inister of Industrial Development or Minister of Mines and Energy? MR. WARREN: MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. STIRLING: He does not know himself. (Inaudible) both respond. The hen. member for Bonavista North. Mr. Speaker, on the assumption that it is Industrial Development,it is a copy of a letter which I believe he has introduced as a Ministerial Statement which is a report after the fact.

When we asked the minister-in the absence of this minister after the close down of Wabush, after the Leader of the Opposit~on had asked in this House numerous times what was the situation and got no kind of an answer, no problem, when Wabush closed down we said, "lll"hat is the story with IOC?" The Minister of Manpower and Labour said, "We have no indication from IOC and I have some meetings coming up in the next week or so and I will report to the House." Before that actually happened 1IOC had announced the closedown. Now consistent with a good industrial 5588

Juen 6,1980 Tape No. 2128 AB-2 MR. STIRLING: development strategy, the tndustrial Development Department should have been in touch with , made plans, discussed these kinds of problems well in advance of a ehutdown and would have of:fered the assistance to Wa.bush and ICC to say, "Can we find alte..""tlative markets can we find the Japanese might need extra? Can we find something in Europe?

The intellige~ce __ ~formatio? of a proper Industrial Development Department would have been on top of this and the Leader of the Opposition would not have to be prodding and prodding and prodding to try to advise them that this problem was coming. It seems as though there is a complete lack of confidence by the companies in the Industrial Development Department.

They have apparently been gi.ven no warning of this kind of thing and you now have a letter wh .ich the 1:1iniste1: introduces in the form of a pathetic Ministe .rial State:ment saying , "Please, Sir, now t:bat it is all done, what can you do about the problem? layoffs." Maybe you ca.'l do something about the 5589

June 6, 1980 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): to expire. He should clue up. MR. L. STIRLING: Tape 2129 EC - 1 The bon. member's time is about Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We were not given an advance copy of it and it is an indication that absolutely nothing is happening in the Industrial Oevelopment Department to prepare for anything other than the magic of Mr. Pedro Van Meurs and whatever it is that is happening in the offshore. MR. SPEAKER: Any further statements? The bon. the Minister of Justice. MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I will use the opportunity to advise hon. members - actually, I advised - MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. G. OTTENBEIMER: - the bon. the Qpposition House Leader and the member for Grand Bank (Mr. L.

Thoms) earlier - that today I will ask the officials here to distribute two bills which have been given a first reading, one, the Freedom Of Information Act and the other, the Protection Of Privacy Act, and it is hoped 1 indeed the intention being that during the interval, that these will be introduced for second reading during the Fall1 .~ the same session, but during the Fall tl and this will give bon. members on both sides an opportunity to put any input or any suggestions they have, and indeed interested individuals or groups outside the Legislature will have that opportunity as well, because they will be able to get a copy of the bill by writing either myself or the Office of the Legislative Council.

So then the Personal Privacy Bill and"An Act Respecting Freedom Of Information" will be distributed today. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Grand Bank. MR. L. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I have very little to say on this matter except that I am pleased to see that we will be seeking collllll8nts and suggestions from outside sources. I will have my opportunity, of course, in the Fall, to say where we stand on these two important pieces of legislation. I am glad to see that they will be debated in the Fall sitting of the House. 5590 -~ · --:-

I_ June 6, 1980 Tape 2129 EC - 2 MR. SPEAl<ER (Simms): Any further statements? ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, followed by the hon. the member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. D. JAMIESON: I simply wish to ask the Minister of Finance (Dr. J. Collins) whether he can confirm or deny the news reports today of a pos&ible combined effort by Petrocan and Gulf with regard to the operation of Come By Chance or the reopening of Come By Chance? Has he any informal or official information to give the House on this matter? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, just perhaps a little

preamble, if I may: When the letter of agreement with the Province was entered into, at least around that time, the question was asked of Petro-canada if they did take up the letter of intent with the receiver whether they would be doing this totally on their own or whether there might be other people become involved with them, and we were told at that time that that was an option that they might pursue. They had made no arrangement or undertaking at that time, but it certainly would not be excluded that there might be someone else come in with them on the Come By Chance situation. Now, 5591

JUne 6, 1980 Tape No. 2130 EL - 1 DR. J. COLLINS: the only other thing that happe."led following that was that a few days ago, I understand,there was a report in one of the :Hainl.and papers that Gulf Oil might be andertakinq SOIII! discussions with Petrc-canada and then, as the hen. the Leader of the Opposition knows,there was the news report more recently.

We have not had any co11111unication on this particular subject from either Gulf Oil or from Petro-canada but our co-ordinating committee has been instructed to see if there is any­ thing to the reports , both the newspaper report a day or so ago and the more recent radio report. and to qet that information as quickl.y as possible.

I really do not know if there is much to it or not. certainly Petrc-canada has not at this staqe informed me directly or the co-ordinating committe~ but we have asked the co-ordinating committee now as soon as the office is opened in ottawa and in Calgary to qet whatever information is available. MR. D. J1UIIESON: MR. SPEAICER (Simms) : of the Opposition. A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. the Leader MR. .:IAMIESON: I put this in the form of a question but it is an observation as well.

Would the minister be sure in terms of the inquiries that he is makinq and tllrouqh the liaison CJOurp that he has within his own department, presumably vi thin the government, that i,.s there is to be a partner other than Petrocan,which is Canadian, that the implications of the loreiqn investment ~view Act are examined so that we do not qet well Clown the line in terms of a partnership arranqement with - I am not sure what Gulf's status is, but I ask the minister will he ensure that this is done so that there is not any unnecessary delay if in fact Petr';'-('"n"da brinqs in a partner who is subject to the Foreign ID._s~lillui- precess?

DR. j. COLLIBS : Yes. MR. SPEAltER: The hon. IN!IIIber for Windsor-Buchans. MR. G. n.IGBT: 5592

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2130 EL - 2 MR. G. FLIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Mines and Ener9Y (L. Barry) • MR. L. BARR%: run out of enerqy MR. G. FLIGHT: And I am wondering if the minister would indicate to the House if he hu been informed as to the nature of the mechanical troubles that the COIIIP&nies are having on the step-out .. u, hole 35, in t~ Hibernia field? MR. BARRY: Yes ,Mr. Speaker. MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEl\lCER: (Simms) : for Windsor-Buchans. MR.

FLIGHT: Would the minister indicate- A supplementary, the hon. the melllber Would the Minister indicate to the House the exact nature then of the mechanical troubles? The word around ist: the possibility is with the blowout preventers or what have you. would the minister indicate the exact nature of the mechanical troubles? MR. SPEAJCER: MR. L. BARRY: MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAlCER: Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Enerqy. That is wrong, Mr. Spealter. A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A final supple-ntazy, the -mbar for Would the minister indicate to the House , Mr.

Speaker, when he was informed of the nature of the=problem when he was informed of the mechanical trouble? And would he also indicate to the House if there are my environMnt&l iaplications with this particular trouble that Mobil is having on that well? MR. SPEAlCER: The hon. the Minister of Mines md Energy. 5593

.JUNE 6 ' J. 9 FlO Tape No. 2130 EL - 3 Mit. L • !JAlUa' : The same day that it happened, Mr. Spe ·alcer, to the first part of the question, and no to the second. ~. FLIGHT: Not very well informed. MR. WHITE~ MR. Sl'EAICER (Silll!ls) : MR. L. TBOMS: Aha! Not very well infoZllled: Well done. The hon. the member for Grand Bank. Thank you very lllUCh, Mr. Speaker. I am rather hesitant bec:a ·use my question ia to the .Mj,nister of Mines and Enerqy (L. Bany) as well. And I ao not know - well it may be he does not realize, but there is a c:ertllin amount of spec:ulation and rumour c:irc:ulating in St. Lawrenc:e that 5594 . -- ~ -

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2131 SD - 1 MR. L. THOMS: another company will he looking into the possibility of re-opening the Alcan mine in St. Lawrence. I was wondering if the minister had any knowledge of this or anything that he could tell me about it? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) MR. L. BARRY: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr. Speaker, nothinq that could he definite enough to warrant raisinq the expectations of the people in St. Lawrence.

There are fims who are aware and have information about the mining operation and the fact that there was a certain amount of ore identified and left in the qround there, and our department is doinq whatever it can to encouraqe interest on the part of other fims and we ha"Ve, hopefully, I understand this II'C.rninq, a Minerals Act colllinq forth that will, not just for St. Lawrence but for mininq operations throuqhout the Province, provide that after a mininq operation has been closed down for a period of five years, the mineral rights would revert to the Crown and could he utilized for subsequent development.

But I can not, Mr. Speaker, confirm the hon. member's statement and it would he unfair to raise the expectations of the people of St. Lawrence. At this time there is nothing definite that I am aware of. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Before I recoqnize anybody for the next question, I would just like to point out to hon. members before somebody else points it out to me, there are some printinq errors in the Ozder Paper today, but the corrections are now beinq photostated and will he circulated to bon. members. MR. s. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. S. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker . MR. E. ROBERTS: I will yield to my friend from LaPoile (Mr. s. Neary). MR. S. NEARY: No, no. MR. E. ROBERTS: Well, I will he very brief. Mr. Speaker, a question to the Premier in the absence - MR. D. JAMIESON: (Inaudible) light today, boy. MR. E. ROBERt'S : Well, after the first class job that the member for LaPoile did on the qentleman from Mount scio last night, we should all yield to him. 5595

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2131 SD - 2 SOME HON • MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. E. :ROBERrS: And I say to my friend froJn Bonavista South (Mr. J. Morgan) who is experienced in yielding that this may well be the hazbinger . of things to come, and he can sleep on that. !lOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. E. ROBEM'S: Mr. Speaker, a question for the Premier in the absence of the Minister of Transportation and CoDI!Iunications (Mr. C.

Brett) : Se'lleral weeks ago I asked the Minister of Transportation and C0111111Unications some questions about Main Brook, the proposed new road from Main Brook to highway 430 in the area of the bottom of Hare Bay. I am sure the Premier is familiar with the proposal. My question to the minister was whether the Province was prepared to add that z:aad to the shopping list which they ha?e submitted to DREE in respect of an agreenmt which I understand could come into effect on 1 April 1981, the beginning of the next fiscal year.

The lllinister said that- 1 Ul not sun if the Prelllier has had a chance to see the Hansard or is familiar with it ;hat is why I will just refresh hi~ - tbe minister said he would speak with the Prelllier, that he, as the minister, was not in a position to make the collllllitment. As this is the last day in all likelihood of this part of the session and as the minister is not here, I wonder if the Premier could tell the House whether the government are prepared to amend the shopping list that they have submitted to DIU:E ~which I know is held up here in St.

John's 1 but that is phase II; plaase I is to qet this road on the list,- an the qo11emment prepared to amend the list and,if so, coiald the Premier indicated when that will be done and then we will go on to phase II of getting it to Ottawa and hopefully qettinq 7~ ~sponse? MR. SPEAKER: (Sill'lllll) The hon. the Premier. m<EMIER PECXFOI<D: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to respond to the preliminary remarlts made by the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr. E. Roberts). When a member of the Opposition 5596 -- ·-

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2132 ow - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: has lost some pol~tical event it becomes quite obv~aus the next day in the House,ne- cause if they have lost you will hear members of the Opposition try to uplift and support that hon. member. And obviously, the T.V. debate last night was won hands down by the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) and r know every Newfoundlander is proud of him. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: We really do not have to say anymore because the hon.

Minister of Mines and Energy speaks for himself and nobody needs to uplift or push him forward and once again,another blow to the leader- ship opportunities of the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). And r am very sad about that because I think he will make a real good Leader of the Opposition and I WLsh him well in his ongoing activities. As it relates to the roads programme, Mr.

Speaker, secondly we are trying not to deal with it in what r shall call the shopping list k~nd of way; in other words, just list every s~ngle road ~n the Province so•that we can proudly say to every member and every interest group, 'Your road is in Ottawa~ you go talk to your federal member: rt is sort of a cop-out by the Province to do that.

So what we have tried to do,and very ser~ously do is to analyze on an economic basis a number of the major secondary roads in the Province and put forward a good case. ~hen if the other roads are not on that list,we tell the people whose roads are not on the list"We are responsible, we have not got the money this year to do it or we starting it this year or we are going to start it next year and do it in that way. In . that light we have re-examined the aoads in the hon. member's district and ~n that whole area as a result of the task force presentation that was commissioned 5597

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2132 ow - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: by the Minister of Lands and Forest (Mr. Power) to try to bring some economic stimu­ lation to the ~rea. We are in the final stages now, as a matter of fact , two or three days ago-the hon. member's question is very timely - the examination has been done by Intergovernmental Affairs and I am supposed to meet with them today or tomorrow because I have arranged a meeting with the DREE Minister on Tuesday. And I have the document gone forward that I tabled last week plus the roads programme to present to him.

So some time next week I will be in a position to formally respond to the hon. member's question as it relates to these roads that he is now talking about. MR. E. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the -han. the member for the Strait of Belle .Isle. MR. E. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier.

As the House will not be meeting next week in all liklihood as far as we' know, can the Premier - would the premier; he -- ·- - can but would he be willing to agree either to make a public statement if that is his wish or to send a letter to me or to the town council of Main Brook proposal 5598

June 6, 1980 Tape. No. 2133 NM- 1 MR. ROBERTS: to indicate what hope£ully ~11 be the result of the consideration, namely that the - I use the term shopping list because that is . the one the bureaucrats have developed, as the Premier knows, over the years and :r- quite agree with him the shopping list ought to have a degree of priority attached to it, it would be intellecutally dishonest and I think . politically unworkable simply to send up a list of every road that needed to be built and say, "that is the DREE list. You guys pick!

" But nonetheless the Premier will agree that there must be a list from the Province, given the way the system has been developed, and I wonder if he would agree to make the informat~on public when the government are in a position to do so. Having said that, let me go on, Sir, to say that I find this talk with shopping lists most useful and I hope we get a better response, Sir, to this request to Ottawa ~~an the Premier has gotten with his shopping list to the other premiers to have a meal with them, I guess, on Sunday night or Monday morning in Ottawa.

I understand that has really been a bit of a bad show and I am not speaking for my friend from LaPoile ~- Neary}, but if the Premier wants to engage in this in Question Period,I do think we should say that the next time he asks people to have lunch with him I hope they will come. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. WHITE: MR. SPEAKER: MR. WHITE: Further questions? A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for Lewisporte. It is a supplementary question, Mr.

Speaker, and I wanted to ask the Premier with respect to the proposals now before DREE how this new plan of his would relate to the Notre Dame Junction Highway, which is one of the most important trunk roads in Newfoundland and statistically the busiest trunk road in the Province? How it would relate to that? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: As I indicated earlier, Mr.

Speaker, all factors are taken in to consideration in p~tting proposals forward to DREE for a new roads programme and obviously I am, as the hon. member knows, aware of that trunk road as I am of many of the other roads around the Province. 5599

June 6, 19 .80 Tape No. 2133 NM- 2 MR. SPEAKER (SiJnms) : The hon. ~ember for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, first of all I want to comment on something the House Leader said and the Premier answered: I want to say I am not going to comment on the content of the . programme but I will say this, that r believe I should get in the sweater business. From the number of calls I had after the programme, I would say that people loved my sweater. MR. BARRY: MR. NEARY: SOME RON • MEMBERS: MR. ROBERTS: advantage. MR. NEARY: You took an unfair advantage of me ·. That is right.

Oh, oh! (Inaudible) minister is taking unfair Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask my campaign manager, the Minister of Mines and Energy, a question. I discvvered recently in Oil Week that there is such an organization in Canada as the At J,antic Energy Supplies Allocation Board. I never knew it existed before. But I would like to ask the minister wno represents Newfoundland on the Energy Supply Allocation Board? MR. SPEAKER: MR. BARRY: The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr. Speaker, I think t~t must be the Emergency Supplies Allocations Board that the member is referring to. MR. NEARY: MR. BARRY : That is right.

Departmental officials maintain contact with the federal govenm~ent. The ' 5600

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2134 AH-1 MR. BARRY: actual membership of the board consists of representatives, not from every province - MR. NEARY: The Atlantic Provinces. ~· BARRY: Right, there is one representative for the Atlantic Provinces,and several months ago, last Fall when they were appointing the membership of this - I think it was last Fall- the membership of this Committee, I pointed out that one member from·. the Atlantic Provinces was not really able to- MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) each Atlantic province. MR. BARRY: No. If it is the same board, Mr.

Speaker, that we are both talking about - there are two boards; one has representatives of officials from each Department of Energy for each province 1and another board has representatives of the general public and industry appointed from various parts of the country and there is no representative from Newfoundland on that board. we have expressed concern about this to the federal government and wondered whether a consumer representative from Halifax, I think it is, can adequately represent the interests of this Province on the board. I raised the matter with Mr.

LaLonde when I had my discussions several weeks ago in Ottawa. The response of the minister, the federal ministe~was that for now this is really just an interim board and that should an emergency occur that there would be then provincial representation from each province sought. So, Mr. Speaker,it is not a flaming, red-hot issue as far as we are concerned but we would have liked to have had better representation on that particular board. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER(Simms) LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. A supplementary.

The hon. member for I would consider it to be a flaming, red~~~~ issue because this is the board that has to do with allocation of heating fuel and oil in Eastern Canada, in the Atlantic Provinces,and if rationing ever takes place this is the board that deals with it.So I would consider it to be a very, very important matter and I am amazed that Newfoundland does not have a representative on that board because 5601

June 6,l.9SO Tape No. 2~34 AH-2 MR. m;:ARJ: Oil Week said recerit~y in the June 2nd edition that each Atiantic Province has one representative on the board. But :r wou~d ~ike to a.sk the han. minister if l;le has any information of the allocation of heating fuel and so forth for the Atlantic Region? Are they ta~g about rationing? Because the bo ,ard seems to be meeting ill,ore often now than it used to. It is meeting a coup~e o.f days, I believe, every twb or three weeks. So is there any information that the l;lon. gent~el)lan can give the Eouse on the al~ocation of oi~ in the Atlantic Provinces in the forseeable future? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. 5602

June 6, 1980 Tape 2135 EC- 1 MR. L. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, these are extremely penetrating and excellent questions that I am getting from the hon. member and I must say that the quality of his questions has improved considerably SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. L. BARRY: - since kicking off his campaign last night, and there is a certain new statesmanlike approach that I notice opposite, I commend the hon. gentleman for this. SOME HON. ~ERS: Oh, oh! MR. L. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, anything we can do to further the fortunes of the member for La.Poile (Mr. S.

Neary) , members on this side will be only too happy to oblige. The hon. member has cleaned the decks for action and I am glad to see that he has. It may take several trips by the city sanitation department to clear up after him· Mr.

Speaker, the only matter of significance which I am aware has occurred in the last month or so with respect to the possible impact on the supply of product, whether it be heating fuel, gasoline and so forth over the next months and the next Fall and Winter particularly, has to do with what appears to be a temporary glut in bunker C and in the residual fuel oil, and indications that there might have to be some cutting back in production of that particular product. Now if that happens, until the refineries reorganize and catch up, there could be some decrease in the production of the more highly refined product.

But there is nothing, Mr. Speaker, of immediate concern that has as yet been brought to our attention. I do have a representative from the Department of Mines and Energy in Ottawa at the present time seeking further information on the tot&l question of the supplies of heating fuel., gasoline and other product over the coming Winter and we have to look ahead, Mr. Speaker, •<&C. ::Oc;.·.-e to try to look ahead as far as possibl.e, and that is why again I commend the member opposite for his very penetrating and excellent question. MR. G, WARREN: MR. SPEAKER: MR. G. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker. 'lhe hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the hon. the Minister of Health (Mr. W. House). 5603

June 6, 1980 Tape 2135 EC- 2 MR. G. WARM:N: I am just wondering if the Minister of Heal.th (Mr. W. House) could advise, or confirm or deny, that within the next two weeks he will be announcing implementation of the Emergency Air Transportation programme for remote areas of the Province? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hen, the Minister of Health. MR. W. HOUSE : Mr. Speaker 1 I was sort of expecting that question.

I do not know if I had any reason to expect it or not, The fact is that, as I told the hen. member on a number of occasions and during th~ concurrence debate 1 we were putting into place the policy to implement that part of the Budget which stated that we would be bringing about this particular progral!llle. And I indicated that it was taking some time because there are a lot of things to consider, the costing 1 what will be included. And we, on this side of the House 1 of course 1 defer to the opinions of others sometimes.

We have to work with all the hospital boards in the Province and we have to negotiate these kinds of things and tal.k about these kinds of things with them. But I can say now that in about two weeks we will be ready to make the announcement. MR. SPEAKER: MR. L. STIRLING: The hen. the member for Bonavista North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Premier. The question is, Mr. Premier, do you feel obliged to honour written commitments made by Premier Moores? MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER: Any further questions? Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Premier. 5604 ------ . ~-~-

June 6, 1980 PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER (Silllms) : PREMIER PECKFORD: is getting at. AN HON. MEMBER: PREMIER PECKFORD: Tape No. 2136 Mr. Speaker, I will respond. The hon. the Premier. NM- 1 I do not know what the hon. member Gambo. But,you know, it depends on- it is very difficult to answer the question. Is there a specific written commitment that the hon. member is referring to? Is he just referring to it in general? Does he have some motive for asking the question? And if he does,well then I am prepared to look at what it is he is talking about:. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Bonavista North. MR. STIRLING: Yes, I wanted to know whether or not the Premier - it is a very simple question; a commitment was made in writing to a town council in my district, a collllllit::lllent made in writing by the Premier and I wondered whether or not the present Premier felt obliged to honour a commitment in writing made by Premier Moores. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premi:er .. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I am prepared to talk to the hon. member about that and to review it with him to' see what the written commitment was, and,you know , see - I do not know what area he is talking about in Bonavista North, whether it is in the Southern part of his district, or whether it is - you know, I will have to take a look at the written commitment and what it means, and treat it on tts own merits. MR. STIRLING: A final supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. member for Bonavista North. MR. STIRLING: To be specific, Mr.

Speaker, the former Premier made a commitment to the Town Council of Gamba about their water and sewer project and they were cut off this year, absolutely cut off this 5605

June 6, 1980 . Tape. No, 21 -36 NM MR. STIRLING: year in the middle of their projects and I wanted to know if the Premier was prepared to honour the commitment in writing by the fo~er Premier? MR. SPEAKER (Simms)_: The hen. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: We will do our Best at all times to 2 honour whatever commitments were made over the years by various governments. I can think of many commitments made by different people over the years and in all cases we try to honour them as quickly and as efficiently as we can. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: My question is to the Premier.

It is related to a question that was asked the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan} yesterday. Last Summer the Premier announced a programme for Labrador with bounties of - it would apply to the Labrador Coast, twenty-five feet and under. That was the only area in the Province that was on this programme twenty-five feet and over was for the rest of the Province - Henley Harbour North. Now in a brochure published by the Department of Fisheries we find that this also applies to Labrador, North of Henley Harbour.

I want to know what of the Premier's promise to the fishermen on that part of the Labrador Coast, and particularly they want to see a smaller boat under twenty-five, particularly a twenty-two foot boat. Will the Premier instruct the Minister of Fisheries to implement the orogramme that you, basically through the Labrador Advisory Council, said should be in effect? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not know what the hon. member is referring to specifically.

I remember last year talking about that perhaps there was still a need - I do not know how long that need was to be continued. I do not know the exact words I gave to the Labrador Resources Advisory Council. AN RON. MEMBER: Breaking promises. .· 5606

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2136 NM ~ 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: All I can remember is that if there was still some need for that for another year or whatever 1 I do not know if it was indefinitely that that kind of a programme would be. continued. I' do not know what the Minister of Fisheries' (Mr. Morganl response was yesterday, because. I was not here in the. House to hear it. But I· bow to the Minister of Fisheries who is totally familiar wi.th. th:i:s area.

I mean,apparently it cannot be demonstrated now that a continual bounty on that size of boat will have, or the removal of it, will have serious repercussions for the fisheries fram Henley Harbour North. Now if in fact that is wrong, that .you can prove otherwise, that the Labrador Resources Advisory · Council can prove otherwi.se, or the hon. member can, well then the.y should make their representations in writing to the Minister of Fisheries and his officials so that they can assess the situation.

Obviously the people . in t.'le Department of Fisheries have evidence to show that the removal of that bounty will not injuriously affect the fishermen on the Coast. Now if that information is erroneous information, well then it is incUIIIbe.nt upon the bon. member and people on that Coast, to prove the Minister of Fisheries and his people to be wrong so that changes can be 111ade to the programme. 5607 -------- --

June 6,1980 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: with regard to Labrador and Tape No . 2137 AH-1 A supplementary. The hon. member My question is also to the Premier transportation and communications particularly with regard airstrips and saying that the federal government should construct airstrips on the coast, could _the Premier tell us what plans the provincial government have to cons~ct airstrips on the Labrador Coast particularly with regard to Port Hope Simpson, Black Tickle and various others 1and Red Bay. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: I could not give a specific answer to that question because I do not know right off the top of my head. Mr. Speaker, there had been some reluctance on behalf of federal authorities a few years ago to move quickly on landing strips so that the Province moved in on its own and started to construct some and then later the federal authorities got involved and started to construct some too.

I think we have one in Cartwright,which is totally provincial and the rest, the one in Makkovik is federal/provincial and the one in ~ ar' J 's Harbour - MR.HISCOCK: The Forteau one was Canada Works with the help of the government. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, Canada Works and so on. I will have to take the matter under advisement and ask the hon. member to get on to the Minister of Transportation and communications (Mr. Brett) and myself sometime next week so he can get an answer to his question. Port Hope Simpson and Red Bay I can see 1but is there that much of a need in Black Tickle? I just pose the question.

They cannot have one,I suppose,in every community. MR. HISCOCK: council said to me. PREMIER PECKFORD: Well that is what the letter from I can understand the Port Hope Simpson need. Mary's Harbour is being built. Right? MR. HISCOCK: It is finished now, is it not? 5608

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2137 AH-2 PREMIER PECKFORD: And Hopedale is finished and Makkovik is finished. MR. WARREN: Hopedale,no! They are not even started Hopedale. PREMIER PECKFORD: I take that back. Nain. MR. WARREN: Nain and Makkov.ilt. PREMIER PECKFORD: Nain is the one under the hill. Right? HR. WARREN: Yes. PREHIER PECKFORD: And l!dakkovik is completed. So there is a Hopedale one to go. Where is Mary • s Harbour now? Is Mary • s Harbour started? MR. HISCOCK: PREMIER PECKFORD: Mary's Harbour is almost finished this year. Almost finished this year. cartwright is in the final stages. MR.

HISCOCK: PREMIER PECF:FORD: Simpson, Red Bay - MR. WARREN: PREMIER PECKFORD: It will be finished this year. So we are talking about Port Hope Particularly Port Hope Simpson and Charlottetown. Port Hope Simpson, Black Tickle, Red Bay and Forteau is being done by the local people. we are going to have a good set of landing strips on the Labrador coast one of these days. MR. WARREN: PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): oral Questions has expired. Well, we need them faster. I agree. Order, please! The time for 0 0 0 MR. BARRY: A point of privilege, Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the minister. MR.

BARRY: It has just been brough,t to my attention, the editorial in the Daily News this morning relating back to a front page story yesterday and an earlier headline the day before. The Daily News seems to have a little difficulty , Mr. Speaker, in getting the point that 5609 ~-.:- -· --

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2137 AH-3 Mr.BARRY: was made. I said, Mr. Speaker, in this House and the Premier said that the headline in the initial story, the headline which said, "Guerilla War with Ottawa," Guerilla War, no 'legal' Guerilla War, Mr. Speaker, which said, "Guerilla War," that that was inaccurate, incorrect and, I repeat, misleading.

Yesterday there was a front page story where the same paper, the Daily News stated they were correct and I was wrong and they circled words in the story to substantiate their headline and they circled the words and they put a big pen stroke through the word "legal" in circling their words and they said, "See, here are the words "Guerilla War" in the story." And now I see again an editorial taking the same point of view, that when I got up and said that it was inaccurate for them to use the te~ "Guerilla war" in their headline, they were correct, they said, and then they go on to quote the official as having said,"Legal Guerilla War." Now, Mr.

Speaker, there is a little difference, I would respectfully submit, between Guerilla War and all the sinister connotations and a legal Guerilla war which would involve, Mr. speaker, just to clarify the matter which would involve shall we say certain legar manoeuvres carried out with lightning-like rapidity from strange and unexpected directions, Mr. Speaker. That is what is meant by a legal Guerilla War, nothing, Mr. Speaker, illegal. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, if I could just have a moment to finish the point because it is an important point, Mr. Speaker.

It is an jmportant point of principle here because what we have, Mr. Speaker, really is a threat - SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR • .BARRY: - what we have here is threat to the very freedom of the press because what we have, Mr. Speaker, is, I believe, the kickoff of another campaign by another member for the party opposite who is presently engaged as publisher - SOSE HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 5610

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2137 AH~4 MR. MORGAN: He used CBC t;his l!!Orning. He was sickening this morning on CBC, sickening. MR. BARRY: If I c~uld? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): ordeJ:, please! MR,. B.li.RRY: Now, Mr. SpeakeJ:, this is on a point of privilege, Mr. Speaker, the most important matter that can come before this Rouse. MR. ROBERTS: UR. SPEAKER: With respect to the "" MR. BARRY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. BARRY: Make a :motion. order,please! Is the hon. minister finished now? Mr. Speaker, I am not f.inished. I am sorry. I t.hougl;!.t you were concluded. Mr. Speaker, very briefly I will finish by saying that we have 5611

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2138 SD.,. 1 MR. L. BARRY: a publisher, who, in the guise, Mr. Speaker, r would submit, of ac:tinq as a newspaper publisher - SOME HON. MEMBERS : .!1M HON. MEMBER: MR. J. MORG1.N: MR. L. BARRY : MR. SPEAKER (Sillii!IS): MR. J. MORGAN: MR. L. BARRY: Oh, oh • Hear, hear. Yes, "Hear, hear". He was - - is c:arryinq out a political c:ampaiqn and - Order, please! - this mominq on CBC, he was. -we saw, Mr. Speaker, the second pronq of that capaiqn in a smear attack against the Premier of this Province this moming on national CBC. SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. L.

BARRY: For his own personal political ends he would smear a fellow Newfoundlander nationally. Shameful! SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. J. MORG1.N: Sll8ar Newfoundland nationally. Smear his own country nationally, he would. SOME - HON. MEMBERS: Oh, Qh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair will hear the subllli.ssion fzom the hon. 11118111ber for the Strait of Belle rsle. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. E. ROBER:rS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. E. ~BER:rS: Mr.

Speaker, r would submit - Order, please! - there is no point of privileqe. r would submit that it is an abuse of the privileqes of the House for the hon. gentleJDan to atte.pt what he has done and r would also say that it is despicable , absolutely despicable, of the bon. lllinister to attempt to use this House to attack a person outside of the House who can not fight back. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. E • ~BER:rS : As for the hon. minister's protests, r would silllply rely upon Mr. Shakespeare's statement, "Methinks the man doeth protest too much." SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR.

SPEAKER: Hear, hear. Order, please! 5612

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2138 SD - 2 MR. J. MORGAN: (Inaudible) Bill Callahan did MR. E. ROBERTS: Are you Sure it is not the Premier? MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) Order, please! With respect - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) this morninq Bill callahan did. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! With respect to the point of privilege raised, we haw had several precedents of a similar nature, and it is not for - to decide whether or not there is a point of privilege but in fact whether or not there is a prima facie case.

In this pazticular ~~atter I think the bon. minister has taken the opportunity to clarify the situation on remarks that were attributed to him; therefore, no prima facie case exists. PRESENTING ~ORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIJ\L COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: 'I!le hen. the Minister of Rural, Aqricultural and Northern Development. MR. J. GOODIE : Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the financial statements for the year ended 31 March 1979 of the Newfoundland Farm Products Corporation. MR. SPEAKER: An there any further pnsentations? ANSWERS TO QOESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR.

SPEAIIER: 'I!le hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS : Mr. Speaker, on or before the 22nd of May the hen. member for La.Poile (Mr. S. Neary) asked me a question. I haw the qt10te fzom Hansard in front of me here and it says, "Would the hon. gentleman indiaate to the House what benefits in the way of severance pay and movinq allowances have been granted to Mr. Fearn, who was Deputy Minister of Finance, in order to IIK)Ve to the mainland to another job?" Mr.

Speaker, in reqard to the f'h:.,t point, severance settlement, in lieu of lost pension benefits and for certain oontinuinq obliqations to the Province, such as the obliqation to appear before the CAP, certain continuinq directorships on private and public corporations in the interest of the Province, Mr. Fearn receiveci a lump sum equivalent to ten months qzoss salary. 5613

June 6, 1980 MR. L. STIRLING: DR. J. CDLLINS : MR. S. NEARY: DR. J. CDLLINS : know the sum of money but - MR. S. NEARY: question. OR. J. COLLINS: MR. E • ROBERTS : SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAXER: (Simms) OR. J. COLLINS: Tape No. 2138 How much? Ten months gross salary. What is the amount? so - 3 I think that is in the record. I do not You did not get the sum! That was the whole That is in public doc111N!nts, I man, you can - $50,000. Oh, oh! Order, please! In regard to the second point, Mr.

Speaker, relocation expenses, subject to presentation of documentation of costs in accordance with the established requlations in effect in the Public Service, Mr. Fearn's relocation expense account is in the process of being processed for payment 1111d in the account he subaitted aDOimts to $14,735. MR. s. NEARY: 'rtlat means he gOt $65,000 or $70,000. MR. SPEAKER: MR. SPEA!CER: MR. E. :ROBERrS: Are there any further answers to questions? PRESENTING PETITIONS The bon. the mellber for the Strait of Belle Isle. Mr.

Speaker, appazently there aze SOD!! gentle111en on the other side who have petitions to present too, but let me present one, Mr. Speaker, signed by 333 :r:esidents of my constituency, the people who live in the Pistolet Bay area. If Your Honour is not intimately familiar as yet with Pistolet Bay, I would hope Your Honour Will be in due course. Pistolet Bay, Your Honour, is that bay which separates the eoJillllllnity of Cook's Harbour on on<! side and the eo-unity of Raleigh on the other.

It is also not far from L'Anse-au-Meadow, which we call Lancey Meadows, where on the llth of July a massive international celebration will take place to commerate the distinction that has been visted upon that CODIIlunity. Now, Mr. Speaker, the point of the petition grows from the fact that there is going to be a very large tourist industry developed about that part of Northern Newfoundland and I am sure the 5614

JWle 6, 1980 Tape 2139 EC - l. MR. E. ROBERTS : Minister of Tourism (Mr. R. Dawe) would concur that the tourist potential of that part of our Province is very large and is . growing rapidly. 'l'he ceremonies at L'Anse-au-Meadow is but one example. I am not sure who will be there, perhaps the Prime Minister, perhaps the Governor General - perhaps both - but people from al.l over the world will be coming and it will be a massive ceremony. It is being organized by our good friend, Roger Silllnons, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment (Hon.

John Roberts) at Ottawa, a gentleman of distinction, well and favourably known to al.l in this Bouse. Mr. Speaker 1 the facilities available to respond to the requests and demands and needs of tourists in that area are extremely limited, and in particular, there are no facilities available for the hundreds of people who come down the newly paved Northern Peninsula Highway which will be COIIIf'leted this Sl.DIIIIIer or next, thanks to the beneficiencx administration currently in office in Ottawa.

But the people who drive their trailers or these recreational vehicles of all sorts -, some of them have houses DIOWlted on pickups - I am not sure if that is the correct name - and then there are trailers that are dragged or towed by ordinary cars and vehicles, and then there are these mobile homes that you sort of drive in the livingroom and live in the drivingroom. But there is no place or no facilities for these people.

There are no facilities even as simple as the voiding of the process of the results of the voiding process, and that is not confined to Northern NewfoWldland, that is a very great problem al.l over this Province, so great a problem that even our friend from St. John's North (Mr. J. carter) recenUy became aware of it. And when the hon. gentleman from St. John's North becomes aware of a problem, it is prominent, Sir. It is a very outspoken, a very noisolile problem indeed, when it becomes familiar to the genUeman from St. John's North. Sir, a gentleman who lives in the area, a businessman, Mr.

Mel White of the Loon Motel Limited - Viking Motel Limited, I think it is now called owns and operates a large motel in 5615

June 6, 1980 Tape 2139 EC- 2 MR. E. RJBERTS : Pistolet Bay and he has recently built a trailer park, something which meets a very great need. The prayer of this petition is a request that the government provide the approximately one-half mile of road which will be needed to connect the park to the main highway. And I might add, that need has been made all the greater because the government relocated the main highway and in doing so 1 re1110ved the main road from, passing in front of Mr.

White's motel, which has been there for many years - formerly owned by the Taylor family, Gil and Arch Taylor from Raleigh - and they have moved the main road half a mile away. MR. J. CARTER: Is the old road still there? MR. E. ROB ERrS : The old road is still there. It is not paved, it is not upgraded. The road is still there, I would say to my friend from St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter) but the main road now passes half a mile away - it was in the straightening out process. I think the prayer of the petition is a reasonable one, Sir, although it is somewhat unusual.

It is not asking for expenditure on a private road because that would be unlawful. The law of this Province does not permit public funds to be spent on private roads, nor should funds be spent on private roads. 'ftlis is a public road that would serve a public need. It has widespread support, Mr. Speaker, as is evidenced by the fact that 333 of l!IY constituents have seen and have signed it. They come from co111111unities in the area, st.

Anthony right through to Cook's Ha:d:lour, and I think that the government ought to take this petition seriously and I would hope they respond to it in a very positive way by giving the local highways authorities the direction to go aheAd and provide this road this Summer. It will meet a qreat need, Sir. It will help tO develop the tourist industry, it will help to broaden the industrial and economic base in a part of Newfoundland and Labrador which sorely needs such greater opportunities, and in m,y view, deserves them. Thank you, Sir. MR. SPEAKER . (Simms) : The hon. the member for Fortune - Hermitage. 5616

June 6, 1980 Tape 2139 EC - 3 MR. D. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition on behalf of 726 residents in my district. In presenting the petition, I would like to say that this petition being circulated throughout my district, to date · 5617

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2140 EL - 1 MR. D. STEWART: five co111111unities have responded but due to the urgent need and the i111p0rtant action that should be taken I felt the petition should be presented at this time. TV reception, Mr. Speaker, in my district and all along the south Coast is ridiculous and the majority ~f residents receive only one station, esc. And during the winter 1110nths there are days when this service is out of order. NBC has not been seen along the South Coast since Novedler of last year.

People depend heavily on the media on the South Coast,both TV and radio,for their infon~&tion and I think preference should be qiven to make sure that all of our communities along the South Coast are exposed to as much infon~&tion as possible and not dictated to by one station. The p~ayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, is as:-, follows: "This petition b presented in the light that the vast Njority of Newfoundl.and and canadian citizens can receive 1110re than one television channel at a time. And 1110st Canadians have the opportunity of viewing several chaDDels.

"Also, in view of the fact that the Canadian Broadcasting Co~ration will probably lose its local advertising revenue in Newfoundland and that the Newfoundland Broadcasting Corporation is pressuring for the denial of revenue by CBC for advertising, NBC has stated that it is willing to improve television coverage in Newfoundland. "T!Mrefore, .-whereas we the citizens of 23 COIIDUDities of the district of !'ortune-Hemitaqe have been denied television transmission by the NBC since December '79 and

whereas prior to that date for approximately two years. reception was unacceptable by any standard of television transmission and prior to that nil. "Therefore we present this petition to the bon. Houae of Assembly ta communicate these facts to the Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Commission on our behalf."I ask that this petition be placed on the House &ad referred to the department concerned. 5618

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2140 EL - 2 MR. SPEAJCER (Simms): The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I understand there is another petition forthcoming and because only two members can speak 1 a "couple of my colleagues want to speak, on one or the other of these t"WO petitions. But I support :both petitions IUld I know the petition tlle hon. gentleman is going to bring in from .BIU'geo-.Bay d 'Espoi:t. I support the petition, both petitions, Mr. Speaker and because my district of L&Poile is one of the districts that is affected by the lack of television facilities and poor reception.

Only t'WO c011111unities in the district of L&Poile, namely, Cape Ray and Port aux Basques have two channels. The rest of the district, Grand .Bruit, LaPoile, Burnt Islands, Rose Blanche, Diamond Cove, 'Har:bour Le Cou, Petites, Isle au Mort, Fox Roost, Marqaree all only get one channel and in Isle au Mort there is a great move on now to try to get the cable in there but they cannot even get cable television. And it is a qreat source of annoyance ~d irritation and frustration to these people to hear about - they go up to Port aux Basques and they have cable television. They have foiU' or five or sa channels.

And you go· a few miles away and only one channel. People are forced to watch the CBC whether they like it or not. And that is sometimes-the reception of that- although they are improving it now that they have put in new towers or they are in the process of putting in new towers down there. But it is, Mr. Speaker, it is a terrible situation and ppople are really frustrated 5619

June 6 1980 Tape No. 2141 DW - l MR. S. NEARY: over it. And I do not know what can be done about it. I have exhaus~ed every avenue I can to try to get the indepen- dent station, CTV,to put the second channel in my area but they say it is too expensive and the argument they used was the fact that the CBC were undercutting them in their advertising rates. But that argument is no longer valid, Mr. Speaker, because CBC are going to withdraw from local advertising and so that should mean additional revenue for the private network.

But even at that they do not seem inclined to go in and put the second channel in along the Southwest coast 1 and they have the same problem in Southern Labrador. So, I support the petition, Mr. Sp!aker. We have been at it now for years in this House,trying to !et the second channel in. And I do not blame these people for being disillusioned and browned ·off when they hear of st. John's and the urban centres. knd here is a member who can see beyond the overpass despite the column in the morning news. I believe my hon. friends can see beyond the overpass.

We are very concerned about this and it is something that our people are entitled to.And we would like for the minister and the goverument to put the pressure on to see what can be done to at least bring a second channel into the Southwest coast and into Southern Labrador and to improve the reception on the channel that they already have. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Any further petitions? The hon. the member for Burgeo - Bay d' Espoir. 5620 - -~---- ------

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2141 ow - 2 MR. H. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a similar petition,if not the same petition,on behalf of 1,845 citizens of the district of Burgeo - Bay d' Espoir. Tne Newfoundland Broadcasting Corporation's transmitters along the South Coast have been down since mid-December, peopl~ have been denied transmission.

I think it is significant also that the Newfoundland Broadcasting Company did persuade the CRTC, the governing body 1 to • force the CBC 1which is itscompetition in Newfoundland, to drop local advertising on the notion that the NBC would improve and upgrade its television coverage around Newfoundland. I have a copy of a letter that was sent by Mr. J. Heeney, the Director of Engineering at the Newfoundland Broadcasting Company,Limited to Mr. J. G. Patineau,wbo is the Secretary General of the Canadian Radio and Television Communications Commission in Ottawa.

And in this letter he is recommending that­ he says, 'I strongly recommend to Mr. G.W. Stirling, the President of the Newfoundland Broadcastin~ Corporation, that we surrender our license at CJR~-which is tha station in Ramea~because of the poor signal that is being re­ broadcasted and the extreme ~ difficulty and expense in providing service to that transmitter because of its isolation and inaccessibility~ And I think that is the whole point here, Mr. Speaker,These communities along the Southwest coast,both in Fortune - Hermitage, in La­ Pp;!~.and in my own district of Burgee- Bay d' Espotr, are isolated.

They only this one television outlet, the CBC, it has a good signal there and will all due respects to the CBC, a corpozation that I worked with for thirteen years,! think the people are entitled to much better --- --- service than that, particularly when we see across Newfoundland,and I would suspect within a couple of years 5621

June 6, 19"80 Tape No. 2141 ow - 3 MR. H. ANDREWS: that maybe 60 or 70 or maybe 80 per cent of Newfoundlanders will have access to cable television. So ~ support the petition presented by the hon. me ·mber for Fortune - Hermitaqe (Mr. Stewart) and I present this petition and request that it be laid upon the table andreeferred to the d.epartment to which it concerns. MR. SPEAXER {Simms): The hon. me~ber for Eaqle Rivar. MR •. J:. HISCOg: Mr.

Speaker, ~ rise to support both petitions but I also have to add very, very lliUCh ia the luxury that I find the Southwest coast has of havLnq one good channel. ~ have places down on the coast of Labrador that basically do not have one channel at all. We have had to do away with history cla.sses in. Charlottetown because they do not receive any T.V. reception in Black Tickle. But I als~ point out that 5622

June 6, 1980 ·Tape No. 2142 NM .. 1 MR. HISCOCK: now that CBC is withdrawing f~om local advertising and that, that basically we should have not only one channel but two channels throu~hout the Province, and the need basically again to have standards in this Province spread over the full Province and not • the urban areas and that.

So I support both petitions, and hopefully we can see in the forthcoming months changes that we will have to channels down on the Southwest Coast, and hopefully CBC itself will see fit to improve areas on the Coast of Labrador to give the people in that area of our Province at least one channel. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Any further petitions? ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. MARSHALL: Motion one. Motion, the hon.

Minister of Public Works and Services shall have leave to int~oduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Department Of Public Works And Services Act, .1973 (No. 2). carried. (Bill No. 68) On motion, Bill No. 68 read a ;first time, ordered read a second time presently oy leave. MR. MARSHALL: Order 50, Bill no. 64. Motion, second reading o;f a bill, "An Act To Remove Anomalies And E=ors In The Statute Law." (Bill No. 64) MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: I move second reading.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Remove Anomalies And Errors In The Statute Law," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently by leave. (Bill No. 64) MR. MARSHALL: Order 41, Bill No. 61. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Generic Dispensing .Of Prescription Drugs Act," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently by leave. (Bill No. 61) 5623 ..

June 6, 1980. Tape No. 2142 NM- 2 MR. MARSHALL: Order 43, Bill No. 59. Motion second reading ot a bill, "An Act To Amend The Landlord And Tenant ~s-idential Tenancies) Act, 1973." (Bill No. 59). MR. NEARY: Will this include the Hannon Corporation? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: In response to what the non. memBer is asking, this is to bring the public housing under the ameit of the residential - MR . ROBERTS: Just one question. Does this now mean that all rental housing in this Province is- under the Landlord and Tenant Act? MR. MARSHALL: MR. ROBERTS : MR. WINDSOR: MR.

ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER: Housing. MR. WINDSOR: Yes. Good. It is about time. Mr. Speaker. Hold on now, hold on. Would the minister explain? The hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs ahd Yes, with the exception of the units which are subsidized and therefore obviously it does not apply because the amount that is paid by the homeowner is limited anyway. MR. ROBERTS: I am sorry. I did not hear that. MR. WINDSOR: The amount that is paid by the homeowner is limited anyway and the balance is paid by the Province. MR. ROBERTS : MR. WINDSOR: MR. ROBERTS : MR. SPEAKER: Subsidized by federal/provincial agreements. Yes.

My father will now go to his landlord - Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill will now be read a second time, all those in favour aye, contrary nay, carried. MR. ROBERTS: of - - together with the father of the Minister 5624

__ _J' __ _ -- June 6, 198Q Tape No •. 2142 NM.,.. 3 On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Residenti .al Landlord And Tenant [Residential Tenan~iesl Act," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of tha Whole House presently by leave. (Bill No. 59) MR. MARSHALL: Order 4jl, Bill No. 66. Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The City Of St. J·ohn' ·s Act {No. 2) ." (Bill No. 66). AN HON. MEMBER: Carried. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a second time? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, although we are prepared to C<)-operate with the government MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: - we are not prepared to co-operate to that extent when we would let a major piece of legislation go through the House that is going to increase the taxes for the ordinary people in the city of St. John's, the ordinary people, now ·, in the city of St. John's by about eighty-seven per cent over the next two or three - over the next five years,say. Once this bill is passed, and let the word go out, Mr. Speaker, that it is the government that is approving this, the government could stop it if they wanted to.

This brings in the taxation on commercial and industrial properties which includes rents and so forth. It is the - let me see where we are here - AN HON. MEMBER: The capital values system. MR. NEARY: The capital values system, I was just looking for the name there, my hon. friend just reminded me, the capital values system is what we are approving here, which means 5625

June 6, 1980 Tapa No. 2143 EL- 1 MR. S. NEARY: substantial increases in taxes for the ordin.uy taxpayer, the ordin.uy people of St. John ' s • Now who will benefit by this systea, Mr. Speaker? Who will benefit? The lawyers will benefit. MR. E. HJBERTS: Hear, hear~ MR. NEARY: The slum landlords will benefit-and some of them are lawyers, by the way. MR. ROBERTS: Could be MR.NEARY: The developer MR. ~BERTS: SOllie are politicians MR. NEARY: Yes some are politicians. '!be developer who is now arquinq that 'I am not qoinq to put up an apartment bu:i:ldinq because of the taxation system in St. John's, it 1a gnfair.

They will benefit by it and the question the:re ~ - is, Mr. Speaker, will their benefits, will their savinqs, will their benefits be passed on to the people who rent the apartments? Will the benefits be passed on to the ordinary person? That is the q811stion that needs to be asked there. You .an argue all you like that now this is qoinq to mean mo:re apartment buildinqs are qoinq to qo up in the city of St.

John's, you can arque that.and it will probably be trlle, that you will see apartment buildinqs qoinq up, but the question at the end is will the benefits of this tax concession be passed on to the ordinary person? And you can also argue , Mr.

Speaker, that they have this system pretty well aoross North America and you can arque that this is qoinq to help the little fellow in the shoppinq malls that are now qoinq belly up • Well, I would say if their marqin of profit in these little boutiques and the like in the shoppinq malls, if their marqin of profit is that small, I .. an,will this save th- by chanqinq the taxation system? Will that save them? I would submit, Mr. Speaker, 5626

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2143 EL - 2 MR.S. NEARY: the answer is no, ~at it will not save them,that even when you change the taxation system they will still struqgle and probably go into bankruptcy if that is all they are depending on to save them. I would say iD the case of these shoppiDg malls, the little boutiques and so forth in the shopping malls that the is the wlllllle of busiDess. There are too .any of them, there are too many ahopping malls. I would say that is the reason they are strugglillg and going bankrupt and going into liquidation and going belly up. So, Mr.Speaker, I want to go on the public record.

I want to go on the public record as being opposed to this bill and I am going to wte against it. And I am going to vote against it because it discriminates against the ordinary person in this city, ill the city of St. John's.Andlet nobody be fooled 1 the govern­ ment could stop this - MR. F. WHITE: right? MR. NEARY: The guy who has got the $150 , 000 house, Pardon? Well, I mean I am not, Mr. Speaker, you can ilrgue all you like that the taxes are too low in the city of St. John's and they should be higher. You can argue that all you like. I think people 1 generally speaking, are quite happy with the system.

The ones who are not happy with it - the Board of Trade who have come out in fawr of this bill and anything that the Board of Trade is in fawr of I think I would automatically vote against, SOME: BON • MEMBERS : Bear, hear! MR. NEARY:. The Board of Trade are ill fawr of it. The City council, 5627 -· --- ·- ------ -

June 6, 1980 Tape 2144 EC - l MR. S. NEARY: want the capital value system. __ b_eca~s !! _ it will mean more revenue for them. They are increasing taxes via the back doo ·r, That is what they are doing. That is what they are up to. And as a result of this bill they will all be gutted out the next tilDe down there in city hall. There will be a mass protest. People are not reacting now because they do not understand it, but when the bills go out from Mr.

Cohoon and people see that their taxes are going to go up, steadily increased for the next three or four or five years until they reach an 87 per cent increase - MR.HISCOCK: MR. S • NEARY : Liberal in this city. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. S • NEARY : AN HON. f£MBER: MR. S. NEARY: St. John's will go Liberal. - then I guarantee you she will go Hear, hear! She will go Liberal then, Mr. Speaker. (Inaudible) none the worse. · No. That is right, Mr. Speaker. For a member who cannot see beyond the overpass, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that I am against this bill. And I realize, I know, Mr.

Speaker, there are argUIIIents in favour of the capital value system. I am well aware of it. But I think the arqumant against it at this particular point in tilDe when our people are being over taxed, when our people are paying the highest taxes of any province of Canada, I have to go on public record, Mr. Speaker, as voting against it.

As far as develop!llent is concemed, how stunned can the members of the City Council get, listening to this argument from the developers, listening to this foolish argument, 'Oh, we would put up more apartment buildings if you would change your taxation system. ' How stupid and stunned can you get to swallow that from some of the developers that I knew around this city and who are being aided and abetted by developers on the Mainland1 With the oil coming in, Mr.

Speaker , the developments are going to take place anyway, and the Craig Dobbins of this world can argue all they like, 'Oh, change this system and we will put up hotels and we will 5628

June 6, 1980 Tape 2144 EC - 2 MR. S. llEA~: put up apartment buildings' and the like. What foolish nonsense! It is time fo!: them to come to their senses down in City Hall, Mr. speaker. What they are doing is they are increasing taxes. They did not have the courage to do it directly so they are going to change the system to satisfy this twerp they brought in from Halifax or wherever he is from. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. S. NEARY: And now I bet you you will hear - MR.MORGAN: · He is an arrogant person, I will say that. MR. s. NEARY: Yes, arrogant, you can say that again. We will hear it all new.

We will hear the argument being used now 1 and I hope the people of St. John's do not fall for this. Oh, there is going to be mre development, more apartment buildings are going to go up. They will not have to pay as much taxes so the rent will be lower.• What a joke, Mr. Speaker! What a joke! The minister knows the difference of that. So I am voting against this bill and I am voting against the capital value system at this particular point in time, Mr. Speaker. I think the timing is wrong and I think every member of this House should go on public record as voting against it.

Send the thing back to City Hall and let them stew in their own juice down there. Saa! HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. the minister speaks now he closes the debate. The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. MR. N. WDIDSOR: Mr. Speaker, three things are o.bvious , from that ride; nUIIber one, that we must be doing something right - the hon. melnber disagrees with usr number two, the ho:~~.. gentleman obviously has not read the bill, and thirdly, he does not know uy more about the city of St. John's taxes than he does about his own district of LaPoile.

First of all, if the hon. gentleman would take the trouble to read the bill, he would find out that it does not 5629

June 6, 1980 Tape 2144 EC - 3 Mk. N. WDIDSOR: i.alpQ!Ie the capital value systelll on ~identJ,al. propercy. What he was debatinq was a bill, a ~ch larg"er pi~ce of leqislation;t;qat will :be broug-ht before this House :next Fall, hopefully. 'l'his iS simply an interim measure tD allow the capital value &ys:b!a tD be applied tD industrial. and ci:llllll!!rc:ial properties in the city Ud ,secondly, . 5630

June 6, 1980 '!'ape No. 2145 so - 1 MR. N. WINDSOR: to waive the necessity to de a rental value assessment on residential properties for this year, to apply the rental values that were established last year and as approved by the Court of Revision of the City of St. John's so that the assessors can get on with doing the capital value assessment on the commercial and industrial properties and therefore raise more money from businesses in this city rather than frcm the poor people. '!'he bon. gentleman's arqument;_ that this is going to increase taxes on the poor person is totally erroneous. I would assume, Mr.

Speaker, and it is not a general fact but as a matter of, I think, the majority of the sort of person that the hon. gentleman always likm to champion for are people who are, in fact, renters.

The object of installing the capital value system would be to lessen the tax burden on rental properties so that these people will indeed get a better break 1 so that the person , admittedly the person who owns his own home, ·a single unit dwelling, will be paying moz:e than they are now,but • the reatal properties will be paying less and hopefully those rent savings or tax savings will be passed along to the person in the rental unit. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear. MR. N.

WINDSOR: We are going to take steps with the Rental Control Board to see if some system can be put in place to de that. secondly, to say that this is going to be an increase in taxes for the city is totally erroneous. The decision as to how much taxes will be raised or how DRlc:h rewnue will be raised locally by the city is always, as it is now1 one for the city. They can set the tax rate as they see fit. This is simply a method of re-distributing the tax burden over properties in the city. I mow second readinq. SOME HON. MEMBERS : IJe &r, hear. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The City of St.

John's Act (No.2)", read a second time, ordered referred to the committee of the Whole House presently by leave.(Bill No. 66). 5631.

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2145 so- 2 Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act . To Amend The Municipal Grants Act". (Bill No. 63) MR. SPEAICER: (SillllliS) The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. MR. N. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, just in a few wor:ds what this piece of legislation does is permit the Province-as the hon. gentlemen are aware the Act that was approved by this House in 1977 provided that under the new Minicipal Grants Act the municipality may be paid a tax incentive grant · based on the amount of real .property tax collected in the IIIWiicipality.

Since that time with the introduction of the Municipal! ties Act and new policies adopted by the government, we haw agreed or we have announced that we will be paying ta.'C incentive grants as well on water and sewer rates which under the new Municipality's Act will be a component of the real property tax and as well on grant£ in lieu of taxes by federal government or whoever. So it is simply a means of allowinq the Province to pay more money to municipalities as we have already announced.

On motion, a bill , "An Act To Amend The Municipal Grants Act", read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole Bouse presently by leave. (Bill No. 63). Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To ~nd The City Of st. John's Act". (Bill No. 54). MR. SPEAICER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. MR. N. Wl:NDSOR: Mr. Speaker, I will go through this very briefly. I do not know if there are any questions on it. If hon. gentlemen haw any questions ,then I will speak again. On Motion , a ';>:! .11 . , "An Act To Amend The City of St.

John's Act", read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole Bouse presently by leave. (Bill No . 54). Motion, second reading of a :tlill, "An Act. To Amend The City Of st. John's lLoan) Act, 1975-76 And ~he City Of St. John's (Loan) Act, 1978•. (Bill No. 39). MR. SPEAKER: 'l!le hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs and HOUS·ing. 5632

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2145 so - 3 MR. N. WINDSOR: A very simple amendment, Mr. Speaker, to allow that these bills can be signed by either the Mayor, City Manager or the City Clerlt. MR. E. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) Belle Isle. MR. E. R:lBERTS : Just one question to the Minister. The bon. the member for the Strait of Mr. Speaker, we are quite prepared to facilitate the passage of the bill but I am wondering just what lies behind the authority given by the fourth clause of this bill which will permit the Province to be appointed as the transfer agent with respect to city bonds?

I haw no objection to it, I mean, if we can not trust the Province then there is little enough we can uust 1 but what is the thinking behind that? MR. SPEAKER: and Housing. MR. N. WINDSOR: The bon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs Mr. Speaker, it simply provides a mechanism whereby the city and the Province can enter into· an agreement so that when· . the Province is raising funding then thev can raise 1110ney for the city as well rather than the city raiSing ~ts own f1mding. MR. L. STIRLING: MR. N • WINDSOR: The city agrees1 Yes. 5633

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2146 AH-1 On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The City of st. John's(Loan)Act, 1975-76 And The city Of St. John's(Loan) Act, 1978," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently by leave. MR. MARSHALL: Order 44. Bill No. 57. Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Fishing Ships (Bounties) Act," (Bill No. 57). MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Your Honour, before my colleague - The hon. member for the Strait -or before anybody speaks,we would be agreeable to doing 57 and 58 together •.

Bill 57 is, "An Act To Amend The Fishing And Coastal Vessels (Rebuilding And Repairs) (Bounties) Act" a::_~ : i.f. it ;; agreeable let us dispose of -these t~ -,- you know, give the second reading not simultaneously but consecutively and we can debate them ~~t way. MR. SPEAKER : Is that agreed? ~OME HON. MEMBERS i Agreed . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Agreed. Thank you. MR.

SPEAKER: So it is moved and seconded that Bills No. 58 intitled "An Act To Amend The Fishing Ships (Bounties) Act" and Bill No. 57 "An Act To Amend The Fishing And Coastal Vessels (Rebuilding And Repairs) (Bounties) Act" be now read a second time. The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Just a brief comment, Mr. Speaker.

These changes in these two acts are in connection with the new regulations and the new eligibility criteria as outlined now to all fishermen around the Province as a result of our brochure being sent to them and these new regulations of course, now to be incorporated in the ~~~ -~uai legislation --=- ftseff · and pointing out the requirements, the qualifications and eligibility required to obtain - bounties for repairs and rebuilding which - 5634

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2146 AH-2 MR. MORGAN: of course,bounties are really grants to fishermen for boats now over eight years or older,and also the same applies for the bounties for the Fishing Ships Act which are the bounties applicable to new constructions. So these are the regulations which I indicated to the House some time ago and now these regulations will be in the form of legislation with the passage of two acts. MR. F.RQWE: Mr. Speaker. MR. · SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. membex for Trinity - Bay De Verde. MR. F.ROWE: Mr. Speaker, just a few questions pertaining to both bills. This whole business of- well, in Bill No.58, Clause 1 (

a) with respect to having obtained seventy-five per cent of the income from the harvesting sector of the fisheries in the last two years, this is presenting some problems as it does with respect to the Loans Board's Act,which we will see later on. The problem here is how do you define a fishing season or the harvesting sector of the fishing season?

Some people's applications are being looked upon as are being interpreted as, you know, they have to get seventy­ five per cent of their income for that yearand they are being asked to send in a copy of their income tax returns and some fishermen are being denied or being turned down because they have in fact not obtained seventy-five per cent of their income during the year and it is not well defined what the fishing season is in a particular part of the Province.

On the other hand, we can have situations in the exact opposite form and that is where a person who is employed full time-and I will use the teaching profession as an example - where a person could be teaching for the ten months of the year and the fishing season is only two months in that particular area of the Province and he goes fishing and he can really under these regulations apply for a bounty and have it approved.Whereas some other chap, in another part of the Province,for some strange reason,who is a bona fide fishermen has to turn in his income tax returns and indicate that he has not achieved 5635 _,_

Juae 6,1980 Tape No. 2146 AH-3 MR.F.ROWE: his seventy-five per cent and is therefore denied or his application is turned down. The other question, Mr. Speaker, is this whole business of residency, the 5636

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2147 EL - 1 MR. F. ROWE: ~sidency ·IUle,has been a resident of the Province for at least the past year and of leqal aqe. What is the definition of a resident of the Province? Is this similar to the Elections Act.:;or what? You know, I would like to know the answer to that question, and the final point, Mr.

Speaker, is that there are a number of inquiries that I have had of people who haw g'Otten a bounty 1 and I will use an example, e person g'Ot a loan fran the Fisheries Loan Board in the amount of $1,600 four years ag'O and a bounty for $600, a provincial bo~ty for $600,has now made an application for,say,a lonqliner, a thirteen to fourteen ton lonqliner,and he was told oriqinally that he could not qualify for & provincial bounty fer fiw years four years ag'O, so that he has another year to wait,only to find out now that he cannot qualify for the prov­ incial bounty for another three years.

In other words 1 it has been cllanqed from a five year waitinq period to an eiqht year waitinq period, lo he is told by the Fisheries Loan Board,and therefore he eannot qualify for that $13,000 or $14,000 provincial bounty as per the fol':liiUla of $1,000 per ton.

So I would like the minister to clarify this whole business of identifyinq the seventy-fivu per cent of a person's inco11e, identifyinq that, identifying the residency re'IUi~t 1 and also what has happened vith respect to this chanqe from a five year waitinq period for a bounty to an eiqht year waitinq period that the fishermen only found out about when they got an answer back from the Fisheries Loan Board after they had sent their application in. • And I believe, Sir, my friend from Tom qat Mountains (G. Warren) has a particular question he wishes to ask. MR.

SPEAICER(Simas): The hon. the DE!mber for T.ornqat Mountains. 5637

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2147 EL- 2 MR. G. WARBEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have to speak on this particular act because yesterday in the House in Answers to Questions I asked the Minister of Fbheries(J. Mor<;Jan) - I am a little bit disappointed in the minister because ~e minister did announce on several occasions that there would be consultation with the people, this qovern­ ment would be consultinq with the people. Now the minister made statements yesterday, Mr. Speaker, that the minister does not even know how to 90 to Labrador. He does not even know how to qo down there because, Mr.

Speaker, here are some ex;uples, here are some things he said yesterday: He said the Fishermens Onion is looking after the fishermen down there. I suggest to the minister that the Fishermen's Union is not down past Riqolet, from Rigolet north to Nain there is no Fishermen's Onion. He also said, Mr. Speaker, that the Fish 'l'radesAssociation and the Independent Fish Processors Association, he had been in consultation with those two wroups. Mr.

Speaker, the qovern­ ment itself are the people that is buyinq the fish in my district, the qovernment itself 1and the minister has not consulted with the Labrador Resources Advisory Council.The headlines in the Daily News today- the minister does not feel he has to consult with LRAC. Now is that not a shockinq statement from this minister? Is that not a shockinq statement from this minister.

Only just in October the Premier made a statement down in Labrador to all of the Labrador people and says that - I will quote what the Premier said; wit is important that a consultive procesa deaiqned to meet the needs of all concerned be devel.oped as soon as possible" - .this is the Premier's statement in Labrador-and he says _''to this end I propose that the Labrador llesources Advisory Council become the primary contact for 110nsul.tation concerning development issues in Labrador ': Now, Mr. Speaker, ~.'!' !'~e~ s~d ~t in October - no, no Auqust lOth, 1979. Now and here we are. We are payinq 5S38

June 6, 1980 Tape No. n47 EL - 3 MR. G. WARREN: Labz::aQ!or Resources Advisozy c:o=cil $120,000 to check end to continue to be addzeasinq issues in Labrador and the main issue in Labrador is the fishery. Tbll Min bsue in Labrador is the fisherl.es and the Minister of ·Fisheries (J. MOrqan) has not got the intestinal . fort.itwie of even cti.scllSsinq a chanqe in the act that very II1ICh so affects the live!l of every fishezman in my diatric:t 1 l:leca~, Mr. Speaker, in my district &lone eiqht:y-five - ninety per c:ent of all the fiehen~e~~ He in boats between the sue of seventeen :f-t ancl twenty-five feet. You vlll only fin4 5633 ----- -·-·· -- -

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2148 NM..,. 1 MR. WARREN: about eight boats, only find about eight people prosecuting the fishery in boats~re than twenty-five feet in length. And here the minister comes up and changes this act 0 And not only that, Mr. Speaker, not only that, but on October 20th., the Premier made a release and he said, "boats under twenty-five feet the bounty will be cancelled with the exception of resident fishermen of Eastern and Northern Labrador from Indian Harbour North to Nain.

Now the Premier said that in October and the minister said _yesterday in the House · he does not have to consult with them, he has consulted with the Fish Trades Association an so on, but he said, "I: do not have to consult withLRAC." Mr. Speaker, this government is paying LRAC $120,000 for that exact purpo~e, ·as an agent between the people and this government. So why not, if we are going to respect LRAC, Mr. Speaker, I believe the minister definitely should have the intes~nal fortitudeiof discussing fish re~ated problems, Mr. Speaker.

And also, even the minister, his department, his officials, are going around this Province organizing fisheries committees, or suggesting to every community that has a fish plant or a fishman employer, '~Look,_·­ organize a fishermen's committee and we will consult with fishermen's committees. " Every director in the minister's department, every employee in the minister's department is saying this. And still all the minister says, "If we have to conSlll.t with all of these, we have not got time. We have not got the tilne." And here we are, we ar~ jeopardizing the fishermen in Labrador.

My hon. colleague from Eagle Rive ·r (Mr. Riscockl !las the same problem, right fran Indian Harl>our North. to Nain, where eighty per cent of the fishermen are using boats between the size of se":.-er.<..:a. and twenty-five feet. so, Mr. Speaker, I will go on record in saying, and 111y colleague will do likewise, that we will not support any changes in the bounty act in particular to the fishe:cnen in Labrador. 5640

June 6, 1980 MR. SPEAKER (Buttl : MR . HISCOCK: Tape No. 2148 NM '""2 The. hen. l!lember for Eagle River. ·Mr. Speaker, because . the hill is so important to my district, and the changes- it is going to have., as the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren! pointed out, that ei~y per cent of the fishermen on the Coast of Labrador have. boats f,rom seventeen to twent~five fee.t. so I have to register the strongest concern that r possibly can to the minister.

I have contacted the development associations, the town councils, and also had the fishermen's committee asking them to get their case togethe.r and present it to the. minister as well as to the Premier and have this changed. And as a result of this I cannot, my conscience as well as representing my district will not permit me to vote for this bill and as a result r have to register again my strongest protest and hope.fully the.Ministe.r of Fisheries {Mr. Morgan! will realize it. And again r back up what the membe.r for Torngat Mountains was saying, if we are going to have the.

LRAC, and we are going to spend $120,000 on it, then at least we should also use them. MR. SPEAKER: MR. MORGAN: MR. SPEAKER: debate. MR. MORGAN: The hon. Minister of Fisheries. If I speak now I close the debate. If the minister speaks now he closes Mr. Speaker, I want to comment on some of the points that were made on the regulations that we are not putting-into law in the act. Maybe r will deal with the latter ones first.

I will say to the members for Labrador Resources that I mentioned yesterday there was no consultation with the Labrador Advisory Council but it does not necessarily mean that we should not consult with them, : the reason being the union,of course, representing all the fishermen around the Province, and in this case whe.re the union does not represent the fishermen North of Henley Harbour according to my friend from the area, I will have no hesitation in saying 5641

June 6 , 19 .80 Tape No. 2148 · NM - 3 MR. MORGAN: that we will rev iew the regulation as it perbi!lins to that one aspect of tfle small boats. SC»>! HON. MEMBF<RS : Hear, h!!oar! MR. MORGAN: Because the Lahra4or Coast is. · dil:f;erent fr0111 the Bolurvista Bay area, or Trinity Bay, or Placenti _a Bay, and if the fishermen prefer to use that size boat we will definitely look at the reviev of that bo"Onty. But right now the decision is made, it wil.l definitely not apply an~ere else in the Province. So we may 1Dake an exception to the Labrador Coast again.

In connection with. the matter of the seveney-five per cent, which was mentioned :by the fisheries spokesma.n. in Opposition, we bad considerable discussion and debate in setting that kind of -criteria and r have held meetings with. Mr. LeBlanc since that in looking at the licencing syStem which is now under dis~ssion with. the federal minister and how- we are going to dete:cnine who are bona fiae fishermen, and who are not bona fide fishermen in the future. 5642

I l~--- June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2149 NM- 1 MR. MORGAN: The seventy-five per cent of income is for the seasons within the different regions of the Province. And if we need evidence of the income, what we ask the fishe:cnen to give us is copies of their income tax report. Now of course when you get an income tax report, if a teacher was teaching and fishing during the season there is no way we will qualify him to get a loan from the loan board for fishing purposes, because income tax will show he was a teacher up until June and then went fishing.

And the same with a CNR employee or a postal worker employee, or anybody else. But the seventy-five per cent, there was some thought in the beginning to seventy-five per cent of the yearly income, but that was changed and we agreed upon this one, seventy-five per cent of the income during the fishing season. And the loan board will decide the fishing season in the different regions, like, for example .the fishing saason is different on the South Coast of the Province than it would be in Bonavista Bay or the Northeast Coast.

But the seventy-five per cent we feel is the fairest way of deciding who can get assistance at this time. And I am convinced that in talking to the federal minister he may very well use this criteria in trying to define a bona fide fishe:cnan. The fishermen through the union went along with this and agreed upon this and it is the best that we could find at this time. And I agree there may be some questions that may have to be answered by the loan board in making individual assAssments of individual applications. Now on the other matter of the - I think it was mentioned the definition of a resident.

We are changing the act now. The act now is even worse in my view because it says'bona fide n ·!;:!..:!cu.t' and who can determine what a bona fide resident of Newfoundland is? So we are going to get away from this'bona fide resident; eliminiate these terms and put in resident of the Province. MR. ROBERTS: Why not ~ettle the matter with 'Canadian citizen'. We are dropping 'British subject' and that is okay. 5643

O'une 6, 1980 Tape No. 2149 MR. MORGAN: No, we would not do that because we are not going to make loans to Nova Scotians or to people from outside the Province. NM- 2 MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible) a Canadian citizen, resident of the Province. There is no quarrel there. MR. MORGAN: Ths;!re is no problem, you know. There is no problem with that. Right now the loan board, for example, looking at a resident would look at somebody living in the Province and making a living from the fishery, and we go along with that.

Whereas before there was a question mark, 'Bona fide resident?' - what is a bona fide resident? But now a resident to us in the loan board is someone who is residing in the Province, and if they are earning a living from the fishery they will qualify for a loan under this act. MR. F. ROWE: What about the change from five to eight. years? MR. MORGAN: So, Mr. Speaker, I think I (\Ilswered the points made. The five to eight years, Mr. Speaker, yes, we brought down the ceiling from twelve years to eight years for boats to qualify to get repairs, in other words, bounties, grants for repairs.

And we said, "Okay, if we are going to do that we will increase the period of time that a fisherman can only get one bounty." So before it was twelve years, we have reduced it down to eight years now for bounties for repairs to vessels for a second bounty, and now also we increase from five to eight years for one fisherman to get one bounty. In other words, he cannot qualify for a second bounty until after the eight year period. That is the reason why. We changed the ceiling, brought it down, changed the low one and brought it up.

On motion, the following bills, "An Act To Amend The Fishing And Coastal Vessels (Rebuilding And Repairs} (Bounties) Act," (B ·ill no. 57), and "An Act To Amend The Fishing Ships (Bounties) Act," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently by leave. 564:1 ---- - ~ ·-

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2149 NH.,. 3 Motion, second reading o~ a bill, "An Act To Amend T:tie Fisher:i:es Loan Act.,. O!i'll. No. 561 MR. SPEAKER {Si.x=ls): MR. MORGAN: The hon. Minister of .Fisher:i.es. Again it is- the same thinc;J as the . other act, SG 56, 57, 58 are the same 1reg'Ulat;i:ons goin9 into law as it pertaizls to the ne-.r regulations. MR. SPEAKER: MR. F. ROWE: '1'he hon. member for Trinity-Bay de. Verde.. Well, I beg to differ from the miniSter 1 Mr.

Speaker • Let there be no lll.istake about. it 1 that thi.s new: ame.ndJ:qent to the Fisheries Loan Act has two 1110tivations or two reasons behind it; one I ~ve already mentioned, and that is to clean up the utter and complete . mess that was created 5645

June 6, 1980 Tape 2150 EC- 1 MR. F. ROWE: in the Fisheries Loan Board over the last three or four years, Presumably one of the purposes is to clean up those disastrous activities in the Fisheries Loan Board over the last three or four years. But, Mr. Speaker, another purpose is a deliberate attempt on the part of the government to reduce the entrance into the fishing industry. That is not necessarily wrong, Mr.

Speaker, as a matter of fact, we h11ve reached the point in this Province where we had to, in fact, put some controls on the number of people coming into the fishing industry, into the fishing bo11ts, because it was getting out of control. The government offices have been encouraging over the years everybody and his dog to get into the fishing boat to solve the unemployment problem, and there is a necessity to put some restraints or control on the number of people entering the fisheries. However, Mr.

Speaker, although that principle is sound, what is happening is that I am getting more telephone calls now, and my colleagues have informe'd me that they are getting more telephone calls . from bona fide fishermen who are encountering difficulty and confusion and frustration in trying to get their loans approved for one reason or another. One reason I have already mentioned again is this 75 per cent problem.

With the way that it is being handled now, I do not know if it is because of lack of staff or lack of planning or what, but bona fide fishermen who are making application to the Fisheries Loan Board are encountering as much · if not more frustration and hang-ups than they did before.

Now, I can understand the reason for limiting new entrants into the fishing industry, but a great many bona fide fishermen, people who have been fishing for ten, fifteen and twenty years, are having replies back from the Fisheries Loan Board informing them that they have not earned 75 per cent of their income in the last two years during the fishing season, and it is proven later on that they have, indeed, earned 75 per cent or over of their income during the past two years. So there seems to be some breakdown in co11111unications. I do not know if it is originating from the applicants' side 5646

June 6, 1980 Tape 2150 EC- 2 MR. F. EOWE: or whether it is oriqinatinq from the recipients' or the Fisheries Loan Board side of the coin, fishermen are encountering numerous problems and delays and frustrations in having their applications approved or rejected. but Now, Mr. Speaker, I could go down through the details of this particular act. I would like the minister, for example, to indicate to the House what the situation is with respect to these fibreglass longliners.

At the beginning, I was going to suggest why the difference of twenty years for steel vessels for the guarantee period and fifteen years in the case of fibreglass vessels. I was going to suggest earlier when this bill was introduced that fibreglass vessels probably have a longevity as long as a steel vessel, and therefore, why not make it the same? But it has been brought to the attention of the House that some of these fibreglass vessels are indeed not seaworthy.

The minister has already had this brought to his attention and I would like for him to reply to the situation with respect to the purchasing of fibreglass vessels within the Province and what he intends to do about the safety factor with respect to them. 5647

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2151 AH-1 MR.F.ROWE: Legal aga, we have mentioned that; fishing experience, we have mentioned that; downpayment, we have gotten into that: Actually everything has been covered. AN HON.MEMBER: MR.F.ROWE: MR. HANCOCK: MR. F.ROWE: (Inaudible) hold it up (Inaudible) The bounties. The same problem is­ (Inaudible) did not advise (Inaudible) Oh, yes, that is a good point. My colleague from St.

Mary's - The Capes mentions a problem whera a ~i~;lerman goes ahead, say during the Winter months 1and starts to build his own little boat replacing the one that he already owns,and makes an application to the Fisheries Loan Board only to find out that he had to advise the . Fisheries Loan Board·when he commenced construction of his new boat, and because he had not advised the Fisheries Loan Board prior to the commencement of construction of his new boat,he is automatically rejected, disqualified for a bounty or for a fisheries loan through the Fisheries Loan Board.

And again we are getting back to the whole question here of lack of communications from the Fisheries Loan Board to the fishermen of this Province. And I go back once again, and I can see the worthwhileness of the principle of controlling new entrance into the fishery,but these are not the guys that we are necessarily keeping out. What we are keeping out are bona fide fishermen who through lack of communications from the government or from the Fisheries Loan Board have gotten caught in this transition period.

Now the minister waved his little blue brochure there and presumably this will straighten out the matter fer next year and the years to come .But I submit that we do have a very serious problem with respect to this transition period over the last couple of years where fishermen were trying to get loans and we have had seven or eight hundred loan; =:f~re the Fisheries Loan Board from bona fide fishermen who were not processed while this change was taking place and now they are caught with the new Degulations,having done things not according to the regulations,and are caught in the squeeze. And 5648

June 6,1980 Tape No. 2151 AH-2 MR.F.ROWE: I think , Mr. Speaker, some special consideration should be given to these fishermen who, to put it in a simple form, have in fact been caught in the squeeze during the changing from the old to the new regulations.

I would ask the minister if he would give these fishermen who have had their applications waiting for the last couple of .. years and who have just sent in their applications recently, give them special consideration and really crack dcwn with the new regulations next year and give these bona fide fishermen a reasonable and fair break, those people who have in fact were caught in what I call the transition squeeze. So I think, Mr. Speaker, that is about all that I have to say about this. I think the regulations are sound, generally speaking, with the exception of the

interpretations of the few regulations that I have brought to the minister's attention.

I think the regulations are sound with the exception of the fact that there has been obviously a lack of communications with the fishermen with respect to the new regulations and I just return to this fact that an awful lot'of fishermen are not being discriminated against , but are in the unfortunate position of having done things according to the old regulations and would have expected their loan applications to be approved,only to find out that they are being rejected bpon the basis of the new regulations that they were completely unaware of until they got a copy of that blue brochure and therefore I think they should be given special consideration by the minister and the Fisheries Loan Board.

MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. The hon.member for Eagle River. Mr. Speaker, I also would like to support what the member for Trinity - Bay De Verde (Mr.F.Rowe) has said particularly with regard to the coast of Labrador. we do not have an inspector on the coast of Labrador and as a result how can you get it inspected and approved in order to get the bounty? Hopefully the minister wil.l take this into account and have an inspector down on the Labrador eoast itself so that they do not ha~e to wait for somebody coming 5649

June 6,1980 Tape No. Ll5l AH- 3 MR. HISCOCK: f~om Arnold's Cove or from some other area of the t>rov inc.e that really need one down there i£ we are going to have the construction season and take use of this bounty. MR.SPEAKER (Simms): The honu~inister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, just briefly to comment on some of the points put forward. I want to mention one thing •.Jhich was brought before th.e House 5650 ---

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2152 EL - l MR. J. MORGJIN: by one of the members of the Opposition a little while ago in connecti!:&l with fi.breglass boats being built in Nova Scotia and being . brought into the Province. The safety of these boats vas questioned and I l!ll!t this past week with the company from Nova Scotia concerned, they came in for a l!ll!eting with 1111! as a result of the exchanges here in the House of Assembly, Guildfords Limited from Nova Scotia.

They build a substantial nUIIIber of boats and sell them to Newfoundland fishe:r:men and our new policy now under the regulations is that boats built outside the Province, fibreglass boats, will not receive financial assistance from the Fisheries Loan Board, will not recei VI!: financial assistance, period. So the company vas concerned about this, the Nova scotian COII'Pany, number one, because they wanted to carry on supplying boats to Newfoundland fishermen and still get assistance from the Loan Board.

However, we stuck to our guns, if you want to call it that, I and said no, we want the boats built within our own Province. If they are going to be financed by the Loan Board; by the Newfoundland taxpayer, we want the boats built here. So as a result of that Guildfor:ds is now concerned. I am sure that is good news for the member for Stephenville {Mr. F. Stagg) in particular because and for the Port au Port area, that G'Clildfords has now confirmed · to 1111! that they are now in the process of moving into Newfoundland.

They are moving in and establishing a major fibreglass boat building operation in Stephenville, and this is the first time I have indicated this to the House, it is a new industry. MR. J. HODDER: It has been ongoing for years. MR. J. MORGAN: Not with Guildfords. Mr. Speaker, the hen. gentleman always see!IIS to know it all out in the Stephenville area and his aember next door and - MR. J. HODDER: Permit a question, for crying out loud! MR . G. FLIGHT: A· ninny: 5651

June 6, 1980 MR. MORGAN: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. MORGAN: Tape No. 2152 EL - 2 Mr. Speaker, look, there he goes again Order, please! He is way behind in the leadership race, that is the reason why he is so nas~y these days. Mr. Speaker, the company will now move into Stephenville and build the boats, fibreglass boats for Newfoundland fishermen here in our Province; However, there is a question with regards to the safety of these boats brought forward by the member for LaPoile (S. Neary) last,week, and quite rightly so.

That matter is now under investigation - and I mean invest­ igation, because the first few days of the investigation brought to light some information that worries me and I have now assigened Mr. Carr, a naval architect with the Fisheries Department to give me a full scale report, a full scale investigation into why boats came in from Nova Scotia and -re fo1md to be unsafe to be used by fishermen in Newfoundland waters and how and why the loans got approved for these boats, eighteen or twenty boats, in the beginning and who inspected these boats. So that matter is under full investigation.

I will be making a public statement on that matter hopefully within the.next week or ten days. MR. ROBERTS: That is something to look forward to now. 5652

June 6, 1980 Tape No. 2152 EL - 3 MR. J. MO:RGAN: Mr. Speaker, I want to say one thing, that right now the Fisheries Loan Board has ~ne through every application on file and every stngle fisherman who has made application will be notified by a letter within the next four or five days,or by the end of next week at the latest,indicating the exact status of hi~ APPlication so be will know in the future where his application is and what the situation is . Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. on motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Fisheries Loan Act." read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently by leave. (Bill No. 56) MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : While I am waiting for the bon. the President of the Council to indicate the next order of business, would the bon. members like to join in welcoming to the Galleries approximately eighty students, grade six students from The Donald c. Jamieson Academy in Burin from the district of Burin-Placentia West. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Also accompanied by some parents and some of their teachers.

And also a grade eight class from St. Joseph's Elementary in Hearts Desire from the district of Trinity-Bay de Verde accompanied by their principal, Mr. Patrick Collins. We hope they enjoy their visit. !f'ME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! Motion, second reading, a bill, "An Act To ~d The Bay St.George Community College Act.•. (Bill No. 5) ~· SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. MS L. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, I would just like to briefly outline the provisions of this Bill. It is to put the Bay St. Georg