Third Session, 41st Parliament

(2018) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Monday, November 5, 2018

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 177

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

Labour trafficking

M. Elmore

S. Thomson

Citizens’ responsibility

M. Lee

R. Leonard

Urgent care clinics

A. Kang

J. Isaacs

Fairness in the workplace

J. Martin

J. Routledge

Private Members’ Motions

Motion 30 — Popular vote and legislative

power

J. Brar

M. Morris

R. Glumac

P. Milobar

R. Kahlon

M. Bernier

N. Simons

B. Stewart

B. D’Eith

G. Kyllo

S. Chandra Herbert

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2018

The House met at 10:03 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

LABOUR TRAFFICKING

M. Elmore: I’m very pleased to be rising and speaking on the issue of labour

trafficking today.

[L. Reid in the chair.]

Labour trafficking happens in the context of human trafficking. It has

the distinction…. If you ask pretty much anybody anywhere what their opinion of

human trafficking is, everyone is opposed. When it comes to labour trafficking,

I think that’s also the response — that everybody is opposed.

[10:05 a.m.]

But the question is: what is the definition of labour trafficking? What

does it look like, and does it happen here in British Columbia? I think that’s

the question, and I look forward to the opportunity to have a discussion on the

prevalence of labour trafficking here in British Columbia and the steps that we

can take.

We know that in the global context, human trafficking impacts over 40

million people worldwide, and more than half of those are in a situation of

forced labour. When we talk of human trafficking, typically, what comes to

mind…. Folks think of sex trafficking. Certainly, that is a great injustice,

and there have been steps against that.

I’m talking today of labour trafficking, which is a specific form of

trafficking. Labour trafficking is a form of modern-day slavery where

individuals perform labour or services through the use of force, fraud or

coercion. What does that mean? What does that look like here in British

Columbia?

The cases, certainly, that I’ve seen come to my office in terms of

casework and talking to folks in the field…. Mainly folks who are victims of

labour trafficking in Canada and British Columbia fall within the categories of

domestic workers, restaurant and food services, the hospitality

in­dus­try — typically, low-wage workers under the temporary

foreign worker program.

This sets the national context in terms of leading to the problems where

folks typically are trafficked into Canada. It’s particularly the structural

dynamics of the temporary foreign worker program. Folks coming in from other

countries to work in British Columbia have to have their employer…. Their

immigration status in Canada is tied to their employer, and their work in

Canada is also tied to their employer.

If somebody comes into British Columbia under the temporary foreign

worker program and they have an em­ployer who is violating their rights —

not paying them adequate overtime, not meeting the terms of the contract,

forcing them to work long hours, restricting their movements…. This is not the

majority of employers, certainly, here in British Columbia and in Canada or

even those that use the temporary foreign worker program. It is a number of

folks who want to take advantage of this, and they do, for the purpose of

profit.

It benefits those individual businesses, often in the private sector.

It’s more profit for the employer if they have to pay their employee less. This

is the situation that we see here in British Columbia. What does that look

like? Do we think of human trafficking and labour trafficking as something that

goes on in other countries around the world? It’s a reality here in Canada and

right here in British Columbia.

Besides the cases that come to my office and that I see in terms of

casework, there is the recent certification of the class action lawsuit that

members will be familiar with. I think there were several hundred workers who

were recruited from overseas to come in and work at Mac’s Convenience Stores, a

very egregious situation. Several hundred workers were recruited from overseas

to come in to work at Mac’s Convenience Stores in British Columbia and

Alberta.

They were charged illegal recruitment fees. All of them paid at least

$8,000 to come here for a job, to work in these convenience stores. They

arrived in British Columbia, and they found they were what’s called released

upon arrival. There was no job waiting for them. They came. They were released

upon arrival. That puts their immigration status immediately up in the air and,

also, in terms of their ability to work here in British Columbia.

Some of those folks made their way to the Migrant Workers Centre in

Vancouver. It was through helping them with their cases, talking to and

identifying scores of workers, hundreds of workers brought in by a labour

recruiter in Surrey and charged these onerous fees, that now a class action

lawsuit has been launched.

We really see — certainly, the cases that I’ve seen that’ve been

reported, either through the Migrant Workers Centre or through Deborah’s Gate,

which handles a lot of the victims — that pretty much all come in through the

temporary foreign worker program, which creates a structural inequality through

(1) their permanent residency tied to their em­ployer and (2) their work

permit tied to the employer.

[10:10 a.m.]

In terms of looking at the reality that’s happening here in British

Columbia, to bring a resolve to that, there are steps that we need to take —

and that we have taken — in British Columbia, recognizing the reality. Also,

there’s a role for all of us in terms of understanding the issue, that it

happens in our communities right across British Columbia. All of us have a role

to raise awareness, to understand the issue.

An additional dynamic: these victims are, one, often work­ing in

low-wage sectors; two, they’re racialized; three, they’re often women. Those

are disproportionately the victims of labour trafficking here in British

Columbia.

We see this issue is not going away. Certainly, the numbers are

increasing. When we look at the reports of over 250 victims of trafficking in

British Columbia last year, over a third are victims of labour trafficking, and

those are just the ones that report. Part of the difficulty is that often folks

who are in these situations are isolated. There are often threats or coercion

against them. They’re scared. It’s very difficult for them to leave these

situations, to reach out, to know where to go.

Those are just the ones that are reported. It’s a concern not only for

them, for their well-being, but also for all British Columbians.

S. Thomson: I appreciate the opportunity to rise today to contribute to this issue

around labour trafficking and the statements by the member for

Vancouver-Kensington on this very, very important issue. I recognize the member

has used some very specific local examples. I think it’s important, as she did,

to point out the context of those in the broader international issue that many,

many jurisdictions are dealing with.

The United Nations defines trafficking in persons as the act of

“recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons by

means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction,

of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability

or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of

a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation.”

As the member correctly pointed out, that includes forced labour, deception,

unfulfilled promises, fraudulent commitments, servitude.

These are certainly things that go against the values we hold dear in

Canada. That’s why we must work to ensure that our values are respected and

adhered to when it comes to programs that present possible avenues to exploit

others.

Temporary foreign workers — foreign workers contribute greatly to

society and are an important part of the Canadian economy. Unfortunately,

temporary foreign workers programs can be an avenue — not always an avenue, but

they can be an avenue — for labour deception and abuse. There are examples

that, as I pointed out, do not reflect the values and the human rights we all

believe in.

Workers from around the world can be vulnerable to human labour

exploitation. In some cases, employers can be unwillingly caught in it as well.

There are valid concerns about the vulnerability of temporary foreign workers —

live-in caregivers, nannies, seasonal agricultural workers,

do­mes­tic workers and others with less-than-permanent status in

Canada.

However, it is important to recognize, as the member pointed out, that

the greatest majority of employers treat workers with respect and provide safe

and meaningful working conditions and experience. Temporary foreign workers can

be at increased risk due to isolation, inability to speak the language, lack of

knowledge of their rights in Canada. These factors, among others, lead to

situations that can be taken advantage of. That’s why we must be vigilant in

protecting those who come to Canada to work.

In B.C., as was pointed out, there are many temporary workers who come

for seasonal agricultural work. That’s an area that I have most experience in,

given all of my work previously in the agriculture sector. Over 7,000 workers

provide critical and much-needed support to our agriculture sector and have

been instrumental in ensuring crops are planted, tended to and harvested,

particularly given the seasonal nature of so many of our horticultural crops.

They come to Canada and B.C. by international agreements between Canada and

Mexico and Canada and certain Caribbean nations.

[10:15 a.m.]

The program set standards for housing, transportation, benefits, wages,

hours, conditions of work and is subject to oversight audit and inspection. I

know the program is greatly valued by the agriculture sector. I’ve talked and

met with many workers in the sector, as well, who value the work — the

opportunity to provide for their families and to develop skills and experience.

It’s been a priority to ensure the safety of those who come to our province and

who do that honest day’s work and provide for their families while contributing

to British Columbia’s vibrant agriculture sector.

I recognize that there’s more to do. Improvements can be made, and I

recognize the need to address exploitation through the recruitment process, in

particular. I do, as I said in recent comments in the House, have some concern

that the recent legislative initiatives that require registration on the part

of employers may be a duplicate regulatory burden.

While not disputing at all the concerns raised by the member with

respect to the recruitment component — I don’t want to minimize those concerns

at all — I believe that enforcement mechanisms exist to manage some of those at

the employer level, whether it be by employment standards, WorkSafe or

compliance with existing agreements.

Education is also an important component of this issue. We need to do

the education to help foreign workers understand their rights and to help

fellow Canadians understand how to recognize if an individual is being

exploited or trafficked. The office to combat trafficking in persons has a list

of the things we need to watch out for and look for when employees, people in

the temporary foreign worker program, exhibit those indications.

Again, I really feel this is an important issue. It has values that we

need to protect as British Columbia citizens.

M. Elmore: I appreciate the remarks by the member for Kelowna-Mission and his

experience on this matter. I’m very pleased that we can be in agreement and

consensus that the reality of labour trafficking in British Columbia is

something that all members of the House are opposed to and stand

against.

With concluding remarks, I am pleased…. The member mentioned, and I echo

the important role of the office to combat the trafficking in persons to really

take a leading role to address this issue across all ministries, raising

awareness of front-line workers. I know my sister works in emergency as a

nurse, and she went through the training. She said that she thinks, looking

back, that she may have seen some victims of trafficking, on reflection.

Certainly, raising awareness is key.

I also know that I’m very pleased that our government has introduced the

Temporary Foreign Worker Protection Act. This has really ensured that the

culture of impunity that has gone on over the last number of years in our

province…. Certainly, the lack of accountability and determent against those

who would violate the program and violate the rights of temporary foreign

workers has been closed.

I can say, and I can tell the members in the House, that across the

board we see — and it’s reported to me — systemic violations of illegal

recruitment fees being charged. There’s really a need to ensure that stops. In

addition to that, the Temporary Foreign Worker Protection Act will also ensure

there’s investigation to address occupational health and safety violations. In

addition, victims of labour trafficking often experience sexual harassment and

sexual violence because it’s gendered. They’re also racialized, so that’s a

component. In addition, we need the proactive enforcement of our employment

standards. This is an issue that impacts not only those workers but all workers

here in British Columbia.

We know that we have great services — Deborah’s Gate. I’m very pleased

our government announced more beds for their transition house and their

wraparound services. They really do a terrific job not only of supporting

victims but ensuring they recover from the trauma and are able to reintegrate —

very key and important.

As well, we have a number of organizations — Migrant Workers Centre —

who provide the legal support, very complex cases. Often they’re scared to come

forward. It’s very onerous — the need to address their immigration status and

also their work permits federally and provincially. Support needs to be in

place for that.

Fundamentally, we need to end the root causes and also the structural

contribution to labour trafficking in Canada, and that is the problems with the

federal temporary foreign worker program. That is an issue to be

continued.

[10:20 a.m.]

Certainly, I’m very pleased to join with the member for Kelowna-Mission

and, I think, all members of the House to ask them to understand labour

trafficking in their community and for us in British Columbia to stand against

this scourge.

CITIZENS’ RESPONSIBILITY

M. Lee: I rise today to deliver a private member’s statement on citizens

responsibility. My parents came from Hong Kong, in the ’50s and ’60s, to this

country to build a strong future. At the time, in 1947, Canadians of Chinese

descent, for the first time in the history of this country of ours, had the

right to vote.

That right to vote emanated from the sacrifice of many Canadians,

including Canadians of Chinese descent, Indigenous peoples and others, to join

with others, to fight for freedom and justice in our world, in our military

service. I know that each of the members of the chamber and our guests in the

audience here today, in the gallery, all wear a red poppy in remembrance of

that.

It’s important to remember, of course, the legacy that has been built up

in our province and our country for our democratic system. Others have made

sacrifices to protect that, to stand for the rights of individual Canadians to

vote.

I grew up in Vancouver and volunteered in the community with youth at

risk and on student campuses. From very early on, I knew and learned about the

importance of civic engagement and citizens’ responsibility to our country.

Those lessons, early on, have stuck with me throughout my life. It’s what we

impart to our children and others.

This is why I continue to be so concerned about the flawed referendum

that this government has brought forward to British Columbians — not because it

aims to alter our democracy, in the sense that electoral systems all over the

world can continue to be improved upon.

In fact, as we know, in this province, we have gone through two previous

referenda where citizens themselves were given the responsibility to review, in

a comprehensive fashion and with the advice and input of experts and academics,

and to go through a year-long process to determine what the best form is to

consider in the alternative for their voting system. As we all know, that form

that was proposed was a single transferable vote, a system that continued to

give British Columbians that voter-based right.

I’m concerned because this time around, citizens haven’t been able to be

provided with the same level of responsibility. We’ve had very limited

engagement, through an on-line survey. We haven’t had the kind of fulsome,

comprehensive engagement of citizens.

Why is that? Well, we know that what this referendum is about, this

third time around, is not really and not truly about electoral reform. The NDP

and the Green Party will talk about the fact that it was in their election

platforms. Well, there were a lot of things in their election platforms. There

were promises by our Premier for a simple yes-or-no vote. There were promises

that there would be an all-parliamentary committee to review, in a

comprehensive form, the alternatives. There was a promise that there would be

geographic thresholds to be met.

All those promises were swept aside in the interests of power, in the

interests of our three Green Party colleagues in this House to prop up this NDP

government. This is not electoral reform. This is the opposite of what we want

as citizens of this province — to continue to look at how we have better

government.

[10:25 a.m.]

I’m concerned that in speaking with many British Columbians across our

province, with all of our colleagues on this side of the House, we commonly

see, including over this last weekend, British Columbians that are still not

informed about this referendum, British Columbians that are still not engaged

in this process.

This entire process has been crafted by this government to suppress

citizen engagement. Those who have advocated for change aren’t even being be

allowed the opportunity to get the kind of information and the details that

they need to consider these three alternatives that are being proposed. It is a

citizens responsibility to ensure that we vote in this referendum as a result

to keep our current first-past-the-post system.

This government has not met its responsibility to British Columbians to

enable them to exercise their responsibility to consider electoral reform. It’s

because of that that citizens have the responsibility to demand better from

their government and, in the meantime, to continue to get engaged with this

referendum, despite the level of confusion and the lack of information to

exercise the responsibility of citizens to ensure that we continue to have

stable and accountable government in our province and not the flawed referendum

process that this government has brought on us.

I urge British Columbians to stand up in the face of this flawed

referendum, to shine the light on the dishonesty and the cynicism this

government has brought upon us and to ensure that this referendum does not fly

under the radar as this government wishes. Fundamentally, we cannot have a

situation where this province’s citizens are being asked to forego their proper

civic engagement in this flawed referendum process that has subverted

democratic principles in our province.

Citizens need to exercise a responsibility, stand up to this government

to say no, and continue to support our current first-past-the-post

system.

R. Leonard: I would like to explore voting — voting which is both a citizen’s right

and responsibility. I recently spoke to some grade eight and nine students at

Lake Trail School in Courtenay. I took the opportunity to encourage them to

exercise their right to vote as soon as they are able, because it’s been shown

that if young adults do not vote when they are first eligible, they’re likely

to never vote in their entire lives.

Why does it matter? Our democracy is weakened when citizens are not

participating, when they are not exercising their freedom to choose. That gap

exposes a danger of losing the many freedoms that democracy can bring. This is

where the tilt begins, where right turns into responsibility. If we want our

rights and freedoms, we need to exercise them. Take them out into the light and

walk into those polling booths to make our mark.

So who votes, and who doesn’t? New Canadians, especially those who have

come from countries where democracy is only a dream, exercise their franchise

often with profound appreciation. Voting is an event to be

celebrated.

I remember one woman who was delighted to become a new Canadian very

shortly before her first vote. That first vote was cast for me, in the hope

that our party brought. As she proudly said: “I was one of the nine.” Every

vote counts.

Sadly for others, voting lacks that joy and excitement. Who doesn’t

vote? We know that young voters are staying away from the polls in droves, but

it’s not just those young voters. The numbers of voters across the board has

been dwindling over the past few decades. A lot comes into play. But really, it

boils down to four basic reasons. Those reasons include education, role models,

registration and a sense of empowerment.

We often hear: “I didn’t learn about civics when I was in school.”

Simply put, education is an investment in democracy. Greater attention is

needed so that as those young students grow up to be of voting age, they don’t

feel they aren’t informed enough to participate.

[10:30 a.m.]

I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the Speaker’s sponsorship

of the wonderful program here at the Legislature, the B.C. Teachers Institute

on Parliamentary Democracy. Teachers who are keen to better know our

parliamentary democracy become better prepared to inspire their students, our

future voters, to have a stronger understanding and confidence to participate

in our democracy.

There are other resources, too, that civil societies have been creating,

as the crisis of lack of participation in elections grows. Student Vote is one

such program, and there are others. But on its own, education is not enough.

Role models nurture voting as a learned behaviour. As one generation after

another falls away from voting, there are less and less role models — role

models who make the exercise of choosing their governments a commonplace

task.

Teachers can be inspirational, but added to that is another layer: when

people that students know and love involve them in the practice of voting, the

way is paved. When moms and dads vote and involve their children in discussion

about choices and about the value of voting, and by bringing them along to the

polling station, then there’s a greater likelihood that they will take up

voting when they are able.

But while education and role models open the door of possibility, there

are stumbling blocks. We talk about voter registration and the need to improve

that and make it easier for people to make it part of their everyday routine —

not like going to the dentist but more like going to a ball game.

Finally, we come to today’s important debates and today’s choices. When

people don’t feel that there is value in voting, then there is little

motivation to make the effort to exercise their freedom to choose. Refining our

voting system so that every citizen feels the power of their vote will

reinforce a citizen’s right and responsibility to choose — and strengthen our

democracy.

Of course, that’s why I support proportional representation — to get

closer to 100 percent of the vote for 100 percent of the power.

M. Lee: I, too, share the concern about the importance of voting, which is what

this private member’s statement speaks to. It is our responsibility to vote in

this referendum. When we see the amount of voting packages that have been left

in recycling bins, voting packages that have gone awry, we know that we need to

do better. This is the purpose of this statement. It’s the purpose to encourage

British Columbians to fight through the confusion and the lack of information

to engage with this referendum process.

We’re now two weeks into this process. We have the balance of this

month. But we need to ensure that this is an opportunity for British Columbians

to come to understand our voting system. It’s the opportunity for new

Canadians, young and old, to continue to support what has been a stable and

accountable and fair system of voting for our province — one that continues to

create the kind of consensus that we need to build all over this

province.

We need to also encourage citizens to not allow this type of

manipulation by their government. You would think that government would want to

have a clear, fair and transparent referendum. It hasn’t been that. We haven’t,

regrettably, put British Columbians in a position to exercise their

responsibility to vote in this referendum.

The information that has been provided to British

Col­um­bians in their voting guides continues to have questions.

The Premier may attempt to address one of them, but there are still 28 other

items to be determined after the vote. How many of these items have already

been determined by this government yet have not been shared with British

Columbians?

British Columbians need to be asked why, in their voting guide, it says

that there will be a promise of a second referendum, yet as we know, we

continue to debate that legislation to bring that into effect — at least, the

promise part — in this House. There continues to be confusion and concern about

the

definitions of the various voting systems that are being provided to

voters.

[10:35 a.m.]

I encourage British Columbians to continue to ask the questions, but

more importantly, to fight through the confusion and exercise the

responsibility to vote in this referendum. In order to protect our democratic

system in this province, we need to continue to keep our current

first-past-the-post voting system.

URGENT CARE CLINICS

A. Kang: I rise in this House today to make a private mem­ber’s statement

on the impact and importance of ex­pand­ing the provision of urgent

care clinics and care outside of the hospital.

As the Parliamentary Secretary for Seniors, I have the privilege of

meeting with seniors, their families and caregivers. I have listened. I know

that everyone, including our seniors, wants the support and quality of care

that helps them to age actively and live life to the fullest.

One of the first actions that our government took to strengthen health

supports for British Columbians was to invest in the Fair PharmaCare program.

Our government has taken the initiative to reduce and eliminate deductibles for

people with the lowest incomes in the province. This will be the first change

to deductibles in 15 years.

We know that many of those who will benefit from the investments are

seniors who are faced with these hard choices every day: should I spend my

money on prescriptions and medications today, or should I use it to buy

groceries or pay rent? The increasing unaffordability that we saw under the

previous government meant that many seniors struggled to afford the cost of

prescription medications, and the high deductibles under the Fair PharmaCare

program offered little to no respite from this challenge.

A decision to forgo prescription medications to afford other basic

necessities risks serious consequences. It could mean more visits to doctors

and to hospitals. It is thus important that we recognize actions, like our

investments in Fair PharmaCare, as key steps to help seniors stay healthy and

at home.

It is estimated that there are approximately one million family and

friend caregivers in B.C. Many of us in this House today are among them. I am,

and I know that our place by the sides of our elderly loved ones is one that

they cherish and one that helps them do more of the things they want to do,

like spend time with family, stay at home where they feel most at ease and live

as independently as they can.

However, when our caregivers are feeling frustrated and depressed, or

feeling like they cannot continue with their duties, we need to do better to

support them.

In 2017, the seniors advocate reported that 29 percent of unpaid

caregivers are burning out. That’s why I’m so proud that we have taken action

to expand respite care and adult day programs. Our investments in senior care

recognize that this work involves caring for the caregivers, and the added

resources will help provide them with more options to enrich their health and

wellness. This includes the addition of approximately 7,400 more adult day

program spaces on Vancouver Island.

Under the previous government, program spaces had not kept up with

demand. We’re making the changes, and we are doing it now. By supporting the

people our seniors count on, this will help many seniors and adults with

cognitive and physical disabilities to continue living at home. This is a very

important example of the action that our government is taking to strengthen

health and senior care at home and in the community.

Across the province, I have heard from local communities who are anxious

to meet the demands of a growing senior population. Currently 20 percent of the

population in our province is 65 and older, and by 2030, 25 percent of our

population will be 65 and older. Addressing the challenges ahead requires us to

think boldly about the way we deliver health care.

The first step is to put patients back into the centre of care and

support a renewed focus on teams so that the doctors, nurse practitioners,

pharmacists, care aides and many other health care workers involved in

delivering the care can work together to give British Columbians the services

they need. Urgent primary care centres are a key part of this ambitious

strategy and present a new option for British Columbians to access day-to-day

health care.

For too long, people in B.C. have been unable to get a same-day or

next-day appointment with their primary care providers. We want to change that.

Urgent primary care centres will provide primary care to patients who currently

do not have a family doctor or nurse practitioner. They will support weekend

and after-hour care to help take pressure off hospital emergency

departments.

Urgent primary care centres will be staffed by a team of health

professionals who will be connected with a variety of services and programs.

This will enable them to better help patients coordinate follow-up care and

services.

[10:40 a.m.]

Last week the Quesnel Urgent Primary Care Centre opened its doors to the

community. It is supported by a health care team that provides people with the

immediate care they need, but they also help facilitate continuity of care by

connecting patients to a range of available community services and supports. In

Quesnel, there will be a focus on helping seniors access community supports to

help them safely stay at home longer.

We know that before opening the urgent primary care centre, the

emergency department was often the only place available after hours to members

of this community for what were primary care needs such as sprains, minor cuts

and burns. By improving how we connect people to care, urgent primary care

centres are helping people get the care they need faster and closer to

home.

Initiatives like this one are part of our government’s work to enhance

the provision of services across a spectrum of care. Our government will be

putting in place urgent pri­mary care centres as well as primary care

networks and community health centres. Our priority is to find new ways of

working, coordinating services and delivering care so that British Columbians

don’t have to wait so long, travel so far and search so long for the care they

need.

Our government wants to strengthen our health care system so that it can

be resilient and adaptive to the changing needs of British Columbians in the

future.

I, here, support primary care and its services.

J. Isaacs: Thank you to the member for her comments.

I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss urgent care centres here

today. As co–Health critic, with a focus on seniors, this topic is near and

dear to my heart.

Urgent care centres are vital parts of our community, and they’ve been

developed to ease the burden on community and regional hospitals and to ease

the need for physicians in smaller, less accessible areas. Urgent health care

centres provide a pathway forward to modernize the delivery of health care

options, particularly in smaller rural communities. They are designed to

provide patients with complete urgent, primary and community-based health care

services.

The work to establish health care centres has been ongoing for some

time, since 2008, when the Oceanside task force was formed with representatives

from local, regional and provincial governments; residents associations;

medical professions; the health authority; and other groups. This collaboration

led to the development of these centres, where people can be provided with

assurance that they will have access to consistent health care in their

communities if and when they require it.

Urgent care centres fill that much-needed gap in our health care system.

This is important to seniors and others who have mobility challenges, are

managing pain or are dealing with chronic and complex health issues and have to

travel longer distances to access health care.

The very first urgent care centre was established right here on

Vancouver Island in the riding of Parksville-Qualicum. As of September 2013,

the Oceanside Health Centre opened to residents. It offers a range of services

such as case management, end-of-life support, emotional health and life changes

support.

It also provides access to respite services, which is one of the most

challenging issues that caregivers struggle with. It provides assistance for

after-hospital discharge, chronic disease management and referral to adult day

programs. Oceanside Health Centre’s expanded services also include

self-management support, tele–home monitoring, education, mental health and

addictions supports, falls prevention and health promotion.

It’s a fantastic complement to the Parksville-Qualicum community. It

allows families, and especially seniors, a one-stop shop to access health care

needs. It offers comprehensive service and convenient access to

physiotherapists, dietitians and X-ray lab services all in one

place.

[10:45 a.m.]

Oceanside Health Centre offers services to adults with moderate and

severe mental health diagnosis, seniors over the age of 65 who require

specialized assessment or treatment for complex health conditions and

illnesses, individuals with diabetes on insulin pumps or women with gestational

diabetes. It also provides patients who are consulting with specialists outside

of Oceanside Health the use of telehealth services so that patients do not need

to travel outside of their communities in order to get access to health

services.

Urgent care centres reduce the need for area-specific physicians, and

they enhance access to specialized health services for patients. It is my hope

that we continue to develop better ways to improve patient-centred care and

look to modernize the delivery of health care services by adopting successful

models such as urgent care centres in those communities where this model of

care makes sense and benefits the patient.

Oceanside Health Centre was the first urgent care centre, and its

success over the past five years should inspire other similar communities to

build on this successful model, providing convenience and much-needed access to

a range of care for patients.

A. Kang: I thank the member for Coquitlam–Burke Moun­tain for her response.

I know that she is also very passionate about providing British Columbians with

the health services that are so needed in many of our communities. I think

members on both sides of the House will agree that we want to see care and

support in place for families and communities and for seniors to maintain their

quality of life and be as active and healthy as possible.

We know that this is what seniors want. We know that this is what the

people of British Columbia want. We want to continue to better the health care

services that people can count on.

Today residents of the West Shore communities will benefit from the

opening of the new urgent primary care centre. It will connect residents with

primary health care teams and be there for same-day care as an alternative to

waiting in an emergency room. To respond to the needs of the people of West

Shore, the care team will include a mental health and substance abuse

clinician.

Urgent primary care centres are an important part of our plan to deliver

better, faster health care for people across the region and around the

province. Our government has announced four urgent primary care centres already

in Surrey, Kamloops, Quesnel and West Shore and will be bringing in more

communities across B.C. These key services in primary care mean that people

will be able to get the support they need when they need it.

FAIRNESS IN THE WORKPLACE

J. Martin: It’s always nice to take one’s place on Monday morning private members’

time.

I’m speaking for the next little bit about fairness in the workplace.

That, in and of itself, is a fairly vague term, and I guess we can interpret

that any number of ways. Who among us has never said, in this current position

as an MLA or in their previous job: “That’s not right; that’s not fair”? I

mean, it’s fairly subjective. What may be considered unfair to some might just

be some of the realities of the workplace and meeting a deadline, etc., to

others.

There are some absolutes we can discuss when we’re talking about

fairness in the workplace. These absolutes would include discrimination,

unequal compensation, discriminatory hiring practices. While there is a certain

degree of latitude in determining what counts for fairness in the workplace,

there are some specifics that we need to deal with.

[10:50 a.m.]

We’re kind of in a period right now where it’s very topical to talk

about fairness in the workplace, as new legislation is already underway and, I

suspect, more coming down the pike that will impact the workplace. Will this

legislation make the workplace more fair, or will it make it less fair? This

legislation and the policies that ensue from it…. Is that going to make the

workplace more compatible, or is it going to be more restrictive?

One of the concerns — and we don’t have anything definitive on it yet,

but it is something that we want to talk about ahead of time — is that it’s on

the table, and it has been noted by the Premier and by the Minister of Labour

that there is an appetite for getting rid of the secret ballot for union

certification and that that could be replaced by a simple strategy of literally

just signing a card. Is that an ideological move? Is that a move toward

fairness? Is that something that is problematic in the workplace right now that

needs to be replaced? Well, depending on what the government decides to do with

that particular piece of potential change in labour law, we’ll have a very

vigorous discussion about it.

I believe that every worker should be completely free, of his or her

choosing — be completely uninconvenienced, unencumbered, unchallenged — to make

the decision to join a union or to refrain from joining a union.

We know that there is going to be ideological and partisan pressure on

both sides to join a union or to refrain from doing so. The worker — he or she

should have the right to make that choice without fear of threat, peer

pressure, intimidation or anything else. No one should feel challenged if they

want to join a union. No one should feel challenged if they don’t want to join

a union.

The problem is that the removal of the secret ballot makes the process

public. I’m sure everyone here in this room, a couple Saturdays ago, went and

did their due diligence and voted in the municipal elections. I’m pretty sure

that regardless of what community you represent, you had the option of filling

out that ballot in secrecy. Especially for us, it’s kind of awkward. Most of us

in public life are very careful about putting out to public who we’re

supporting and who we’re going to give a pass on supporting. We kind of like to

keep that personal, and so do a lot of other people. They want to keep that

information private. Your ballot is yours and yours alone. If you wish to share

that information, you’re free to do so.

Well, if we were to move to a situation where the secret ballot was

tossed aside, then no longer do workers have the option of privately making

that decision. They have to make it in a public setting where they are going to

win and gain the approval of some, and they’re going to disappoint others. If

we want to maintain fairness in the workplace, we need to be very attuned to

some of the most core, significant, democratic values of the institution of

democracy. One of those is the secret ballot.

There are other issues, as well, that are underfoot with respect to

fairness in the workplace. Momentarily we’re going to hear from the other side,

and they’ll have a chance to go into some of those other issues maybe in a

little more detail in a bit of a rebuttal.

I want to say that I have full confidence that every single member of

this House from all of the parties, all sides of the gallery have a serious,

significant, sincere interest in enhancing fairness in the workplace. None of

us want to see that rolled back.

How are we going to achieve that? What is our definition of “fairness”?

How are we going to protect democracy and workers’ rights through reform of

labour legislation?

[10:55 a.m.]

Given the vast changes in the workplace — the gig economy, people

working from home, people often doing short-term contracts, maybe two or three

of them at a time — there’s a different landscape there. If we’re going to

maintain fairness and treat all workers fairly, we have to be very alive to the

changing workplace and the reforms that are going to be needed to ensure that

we don’t take a step backwards. I believe that the erosion of the secret ballot

would be a step backwards.

I look forward to my colleague’s remarks.

J. Routledge: I welcome this opportunity to talk about fairness in the workplace and

what it really looks like.

I stumbled across a tweet that was posted last week by the B.C. Liberal

caucus, and it goes like this: “The @BCLiberalCaucus stands with unions and

workers in defending their rights and freedoms.” Really? Let me read that

again: “The @BCLiberalCaucus stands with unions and workers in defending their

rights and freedoms.”

It takes a lot of gall to post a statement like that. In the face of the

reality of their track record, those are hollow words at best. It looks like

the B.C. Liberals did more than rebrand themselves at their recent convention.

They are trying to rewrite their history. They are trying to obfuscate the

appalling treatment of workers and unions at their hands, and as a lifelong

union activist, I’m not going to let them get away with it.

Now, we have been cautioned so far about what this government might do

with regard to fairness at the workplace. What I want to do is caution us about

what’s already been done, the way the B.C. Liberals have already demonstrated

their commitment to workers.

Let me start with the thousands of workers, mostly women, who are hard

at work every day keeping our health care facilities clean and germ-free in

challenging circumstances. What did the previous government call them? Toilet

cleaners.

That same previous government made a solemn promise before the 2001

election to respect signed collective agreements, yet once they took power, one

of the first things they did was renege on that promise. They tore up

collective agreements by passing some of the most authoritarian legislation

this country has ever seen — legislation the top court in the land would later

rule to be unconstitutional and illegal, legislation that has been condemned by

the United Nations.

Now, in opposition, they’re trying to pretend that none of that

happened. But it’s official. What they did was an abuse of power — an abuse of

power they used to sack 10,000 mostly women health care workers, the largest

mass firing of women workers in B.C. history.

Let’s not forget the chaos they created in our education system. They

tore up contracts with teachers, stripped them of their ability to negotiate

class size and composition and create better classroom conditions for their

students. Here again they abused their power. Here again the Supreme Court

ruled that their actions were unconstitutional, and still they weren’t done

disrespecting the rights of teachers. Let’s not forget that in 2012, then

Premier Christy Clark deliberately provoked a full-scale teachers strike. If

you think I’m overstating it, just read the ruling of the B.C. Supreme

Court.

There’s more. The B.C. Liberal government made fundamental changes to

employment standards, changes that eroded protection for workers and tipped the

scales in favour of employers. They reintroduced child labour after — what? —

100 years. They reduced minimum shifts protection to two hours. They eliminated

the requirement to investigate complaints to the employment standards branch.

They cut staff at the employment standards branch by 51 percent.

[11:00 a.m.]

They forced workers — regardless of their literacy, regardless of their

download on-line self-help kits to report abuses at their workplace. And that’s

assuming they even knew their rights had been violated, because that was

something else the government did. They eliminated the requirement of employers

to inform their employees of their rights under the Employment Standards Act.

I’m not even going to have enough time to go into detail about the ways the

labour code and Workers Compensation Act were gutted under their

watch.

Let me simply conclude by saying this. When it comes time for this House

to vote on the measures this side of the House — the current government, the

government that does have a track record of standing with workers and their

unions…. When it comes time to vote on the measures we introduce to correct the

imbalances in the employment standards, in the labour code, in worker’s

compensation, workers themselves will be watching, and they’ll see who stands

with them and their unions. It’s an opportunity for the other side to put their

money where their tweets are.

J. Martin: Well, this is pretty rich. We have a representative of the government

talking about their support of unions and workers when they’ve just told 85

percent of workers in the building and trades: “Get out of B.C. You’re not

going to work in this province. We are going to bring in legislation that

prohibits you working in this province.”

[R. Chouhan in the chair.]

They say they’re a supporter of unions. If you happen to be one of the

19 unions that wrote hundreds of thousands of dollars and millions of dollars

in cheques to the NDP over the years, yes, they support those unions. There’s a

heck of a lot of other unions that are left out in the dark. That is not

fairness in the workplace. That is political payback of the lowest order and

nothing short of an absolute disgrace.

Every British Columbian, whether they are a union member or a non-union

member or whether they are a member of this union or that union, have a right

to publicly funded contracts in this province because they are funded by every

single British Columbian, not just those that support the NDP. That is

something that the government is having a tough time working their way

around.

British Columbians of every stripe have the right to work on publicly

funded projects. Those are not the purview of the NDP to assign solely to their

supporters and those that have generously cut cheques over the years and over

the decades — a complete and absolute disgrace.

We had a group here from the unions that are excluded from being on the

priority list. What did we find out? What did the Premier call the members of

CLAC? Turkeys. “Oh, you don’t belong to one of our approved unions. You’re a

turkey.” That’s respect for the workplace? That’s respect for workers? That’s

respect for unionized men and women, who do the heavy lifting in this province?

I don’t think so. That doesn’t work for me.

In British Columbia, every single person, regardless of political

affiliation, regardless of political donations, has a right to work on publicly

funded contracts.

Hon. C. Trevena: We call, for consideration, Motion 30 by the member for

Surrey-Fleetwood.

Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, unanimous consent of the House is required to proceed with

Motion 30 without disturbing the priorities of the motions preceding it on the

order paper.

Leave granted.

Private Members’ Motions

MOTION 30 — POPULAR VOTE

AND LEGISLATIVE

POWER

J. Brar: It’s a real honour for me today to stand in this House to move the

following motion.

[Be it resolved that this House recognizes that 40 percent of the popular

vote should not equal 100 percent of the legislative power.]

For too long, the outdated voting system has put too much power in the

hands of too few when the majority is left out. It should be noted that since

1928, there has been only one election, only one election where a single party

has received over 50 percent of the popular vote. So over 50 years, a party

with less than 50 percent of the vote has held 100 percent of the power, and

that is a big problem.

[11:05 a.m.]

In the recent Ontario elections, Doug Ford’s Conservative Party took 61

percent of the seats with only 41 percent of the vote. Similarly, the Quebec

election that took place on October 1 saw the conservative coalition receive 37

percent of the popular vote but 59 percent of the total seats. In these two

recent elections, each party won 100 percent of the power with less than 50

percent of the vote, and that is a problem.

We saw similar election results in this province under the B.C. Liberals

for 16 years. In election after election, they would get less than half the

votes, grab 100 percent of the power, and it was the hard-working people of

British Col­um­bia paying the price.

The B.C. Liberals made everyone pay more for every­thing while

cutting important services like health care and education. On the other hand,

they gave huge tax breaks to the top 2 percent of people. It went on for 16

years — good times for B.C. Liberals and their wealthy friends and hard times

for the people of British Columbia. That’s why B.C. Liberals are fighting for

their own self-interest to keep the current system, where the wealthy and

well-connected can call the shots.

Clearly, the old and outdated system is not working for the people. Too

many people feel that their vote doesn’t count. Pro rep can fix that, and

that’s why the people of British Columbia would like to change the current

voting system to the new pro rep system.

Proportional representation is a system used by countries around the

world to ensure that everyone’s vote counts. A party that gets 25 percent of

the votes gets 25 percent of the seats in the Legislature. British Columbians

have an opportunity to change their voting system so that everyone’s vote can

count.

The referendum to change that voting system by mail-in ballot will run

from October 22 to November 30, 2018. Pro rep will strengthen the voice of

people from every region of the province. Parties will have to work together to

get things done for the people of British Columbia. Parties will be more

accountable.

The majority of the countries around the world now use some form of pro

rep. We have seen from their experiences that governments are more stable.

People have a greater sense of satisfaction in their democracies.

We have already banned big money from elections, and now we have a

historic chance to finish the job and have a system where everyone’s vote

counts. We have a chance to put the power back in the hands of the regular

people, not just the wealthy and well-connected, and elect a government that

works for everyone. We have a chance, finally, to put people at the centre of

politics.

In the end, I would like to say to the people…. I think it’s very

important for the people who are watching to know that the B.C. Liberals use

the pro rep system to elect their own leader, because it is better than the

current system. It should be noted that Dianne Watts, the B.C. Liberal

leadership candidate, would have won if the B.C. Liberals used the current

first-past-the-post system.

If the pro rep system is good for their own party, then it should be

good for the people to use pro rep to elect their representatives. Therefore, I

ask every member to support this motion.

M. Morris: The member who just finished speaking obviously isn’t fully informed on

what proportional representation means and the different methods of voting that

we have in this province. I go back to…. The system we have today recognizes

the equality of voting. The courts have said many times over the years that

that is one of the basic, fundamental parts of our democratic rights here in

Canada.

[11:10 a.m.]

The balance in our electoral districts has been built in right from the

beginning. It goes back to 1867, where the equality of voting power was

paramount, and still is today, in our democratic system. We have 87 ridings in

the province. The population was divided into those 87…. The 87 ridings were

divided into the population of British Columbia to come up with equality based

on population.

In addition to that, they also built in equality pertaining to the

geographical and regional differences that we have in this province and right

across the country. Those are the fundamental parts of voting equality. The

equality of voting power in British Columbia is representation by population,

with a plus or minus 25 percent deviation based on geographical and regional

differences.

Every citizen in Canada, under the Charter, has a right to participate

in the electoral process. They have the chance to sit down and listen to every

candidate who espouses whatever the platform is that they’re representing. They

talk about the policies they represent, and through that process, the citizens

within that electoral area, within one of the 87 ridings we have, get an

opportunity to see the candidates, whether they’re Green, NDP, B.C. Liberal or

whatever other party might be running at the time. They get a chance to see the

strength of character of that individual. They get a chance to see whether or

not that individual will have the strength of voice to represent that area,

that electoral district in this House.

They also get a chance to evaluate the policies and the platform that

individual may be representing on behalf of their party. Through that, the day

of the vote comes. The people within that electoral district will vote based on

the individual and how well he or she represented the policies, the platform,

the strength of character required. Based upon that, we will have 87 results

coming from these separate ridings within the province here. Those are the true

results of the people being represented in this province, in this

House.

To go about changing the results of the election, which is what

proportional representation does, by nullifying all of the will of the people,

the votes that the people said and applying a mathematical formula, at the end

of the day, to determine what the popular vote may have been…. What that does

is virtually eliminate and nullify the great work that has been done in trying

to develop equal representation within the ridings right across the province.

By applying that mathematical formula, it will provide for urban centres —

large, urban centres with a large number of voters — to influence what’s

happening within the rural areas of the province.

Under our current constitution and our current first-past-the-post

system, we have MLAs, we have opposition members and we have independents, as

we’ve had sitting in the House before. That equals 100 percent of the power of

the electoral system in this province. There is no imbalance there.

To simply say that 40 percent of the vote equals 100 percent of the

power is misdescribing the situation. We have people duly elected within the 87

electoral districts in the province. They represent the people within those

provinces. The popular vote has nothing to do with the overall democracy we

have in the province, where the individual people are elected in their

districts. By applying that mathematical formula at the end of the day, it

nullifies it.

R. Glumac: Forty percent of the vote should not equal 100 percent of the power, but

that is exactly what happens under a first-past-the-post system. It’s what

happened in 2013. When the B.C. Liberals received 44 percent of the vote, they

received 100 percent of the power. It’s what happened in 2009, when the B.C.

Liberals received 46 percent of the vote and 100 percent of the power. It’s

what happened in 2005, when the B.C. Liberals received, again, 46 percent of

the vote and 100 percent of the power.

[11:15 a.m.]

It’s what happened in Quebec recently, where an anti-immigration party

received 37 percent of the vote and 100 percent of the power. It’s what

happened in Ontario, where Doug Ford’s party received 40 percent of the vote

and 100 percent of the power. It’s what happened in the United States, when

Donald Trump received three million less votes than his opponent and won the

presidency.

Interjections.

Deputy Speaker: Members.

R. Glumac: That is why every modern democracy in the world has switched to

proportional representation, because pro rep democracies elect governments that

better represent people.

Interjection.

R. Glumac: Well, not every one, but nine out of the ten top economic performers in

the OECD, with the highest GDP per capita, use proportional

representation.

Voter turnout under proportional representation is 7½ percent higher,

and 8 percent more women get elected in PR democracies. In proportional

representation, there is greater consistency between elections, while in

first-past-the-post, with artificial majorities, there are wild policy swings,

which isn’t good for the majority of people in those populations.

Why are the B.C. Liberals fighting so desperately to keep this current

system? They’re not interested in representing the people of British Columbia.

They’re not interested in listening to the concerns of the majority of British

Columbians. They had 16 years, and they turned their backs on the majority of

British Columbians.

It’s not surprising they would prefer…

Interjections.

Deputy Speaker: Members, let’s have one speech at a time, please.

R. Glumac: …a voting system that rewards the minority of voters with absolute

power. They represent the minority. They represent the top 1 percent. They

represent the elite, the most wealthy British Columbians.

Right now we have 57 percent of voters represented in our government, a

majority of voters represented in government. Imagine that. That’s not

something the B.C. Liberals want to see. They don’t want to see the majority of

British Columbians represented in this House, so they’re becoming desperate and

saying anything they can think of to try to scare people into voting against

proportional representation.

Can you believe, Mr. Speaker, that they are actually talking about

Nazis? Nazis…

Interjection.

R. Glumac: Oh yes, it is.

…and fringe parties and extremists. Is this the kind of debate we’re

engaging in here? We’re not going to be electing extremists or Nazis in this

House under any voting system, because the people in B.C. are not Nazis, and

they’re not extremists.

I’ll tell you what we are. We’re men. We’re women. We’re young. We’re

old. We’re wealthy. We’re poor. We’re new to the province. We’ve been here for

generations. We come from all walks of life, from all professions. We are a

diversity of people, and this House should better represent that diversity.

It’s extremely insulting to say that the people of B.C. do not deserve to have

a voting system that would better represent the diversity of the province. They

also say that there isn’t enough information out there.

We will be getting a voting system that better represents the diversity

in this province. There’s a comprehensive package of details sent to every

single person in this province. Elections B.C. has a website with videos that

you can watch and a comprehensive explanation of all three voting systems, all

three proportional representation systems.

Then they keep talking about the boundaries: “We don’t know what the

boundaries are. How can we vote for this?” There’s an independent commission

that sets up these boun­daries — an independent commission that

apparently they would like to override, just like they like to override the

B.C. Utilities Commission.

That’s not the way we do things. We follow the correct process. The

reality is that this whole referendum was driven by the most successful public

engagement process this province has ever seen. Based on that engagement, three

systems were chosen. There’s nothing to fear, Mr. Speaker, but there’s a lot to

gain for the people of British Columbia.

Interjection.

Deputy Speaker: One speech at a time, please. The member will speak when the Chair

recognizes.

Kamloops–North Thompson.

[11:20 a.m.]

P. Milobar: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It feels like the Bill Murray movie

Groundhog Day in this chamber every day, because it seems every

Monday, the government seems to want to bring forward yet another motion to try

to use government resources to talk about proportional representation while, at

the same time, ensuring that we can’t even do something as simple as a $5

Facebook post to boost it to make sure that the public actually has some

information on this.

That’s okay. I will gladly talk on this subject yet again and maybe try

to allay some of the members’ opposite’s fears about the need to change our

electoral system.

Interjections.

Deputy Speaker: Members.

P. Milobar: I’d like to point out to the members opposite that, in fact, we don’t

need to change wholesale the voting system on what delivers people to this

place to represent the public in British Columbia. In fact, I would argue that

we already have a very diverse legislature here from both sides. We have

various ages, we have a lot of ethnicities represented in this place, and I

think it’s a very good thing.

I’m sure it’s a great comfort for many ethnic communities out there to

hear a middle-aged white politician assure them that there is not racism in

British Columbia, as I heard in that last speech, but I would suggest that

there are still, unfortunately, pockets of communities that very much so still

sow the seeds of hate. I would hate to think that would take its place within

any debate, within any power structure within this chamber. I think everyone in

this chamber, from all sides, fully agrees today, as we stand here, that that

is not appropriate.

It’s very interesting to me that we keep hearing that we need to

fundamentally change the voting system so that 40 percent of the House doesn’t

control 100 percent of the power.

Now, I would point out to the member that just spoke, because he listed

off a few provincial election results that he wasn’t happy with, or down in the

States…. I would point out that he doesn’t seem to take issue with the fact

that the Alberta government was elected with the exact same percentage of

votes, with the exact same percentage of seats as the Ontario government.

Apparently, the NDP in Alberta were able to deliver a platform to the public

that they could actually embrace and actually elect them in a majority

situation, instead of them having to cut a deal with a third party to be able

to cling to power, like we have here in British Columbia.

Even after 16 years, the NDP wasn’t able to figure out a platform that

the public could buy into, to actually put them back into power. Instead, they

have to try to rig the electoral system. It’s a farce.

If the members opposite truly wanted to have a broad spectrum of views

being represented here through legislation, I would challenge the Premier, I

would challenge the Government House Leader to actually bring forward even one

of the 20 private member’s bills that currently sit on the order paper, stalled

— that the government is fully in their rights to bring forward, yet they

refuse to.

Those are private member’s bills that represent the opinions of 50

percent of this House, and the government is too afraid to bring one of those

bills forward. And they’re telling the public: “We need to change the whole

electoral system for that to happen.” That won’t happen, because this

referendum doesn’t change the procedures of how this House operates.

We already have a coalition government — a coalition government that’s

not delivering on any of their promises to the public, diluted-down promises.

Their whole platform has been erased, yet we keep hearing from them that we

have to change the whole electoral system for them to be willing to entertain

the opinion of anyone else in this House that doesn’t currently sit on the

government side.

There are 20 private member’s bills on the docket that we could deal

with over the next ten days of this legislative calendar, but I’m certainly not

holding my breath that the Premier is going to actually be a man of his word

and operate this House differently. He hasn’t been a man of his word when it

comes to this referendum. He has walked away from every promise he has made for

this referendum, and that is a disservice to the public.

It’s disingenuous at best when he stands up and tries to say: “The only

way the House will operate differently is if we have future minority

governments in place.” We already have that in place. They are ignoring that

completely.

The only thing this referendum does is it would allow the Green Party —

without securing one more vote, without securing one more riding — the ability

to handpick and hand-appoint 12 extra members. That’s what the last election

would have resulted in. We would have gone to 36, the NDP would have gone to

36, and the Green Party could have gone from three to 15. The leader of the

Green Party would have been able to hand-select, handpick 12 other people that

didn’t get one vote in this province to sit in this House.

That is fundamentally wrong. Everyone else of the 87 of us had to earn

the right and earn the privilege with our communities to be elected, and we

need to continue to make sure that happens.

R. Kahlon: It’s my pleasure to stand in the House today and speak in favour of this

motion.

[11:25 a.m.]

It’s very simple: 40 percent of the vote equals 40 percent of the seats.

Now, we’ve seen example after example….

Interjection.

R. Kahlon: I hope the member will stay and listen to my comments, but

unfortunately, he can’t handle the truth. I’ll let him head to wherever he

wants.

Interjection.

R. Kahlon: He’s in the House. The member was in the House.

We’ve had examples, such as New Brunswick. Recently Liberals there had

38 percent of the vote, and guess what. The PCs had 32 percent and ended up

having more seats than the Liberals. That is fundamentally what’s wrong with

this system we have.

The member before mentioned what happened in the U.S. with Hillary

Clinton getting three million more votes than Donald Trump, yet Donald Trump

cleaned house. There is something fundamentally wrong with our system when we

can have 30 percent or 40 percent of the vote and have 100 percent of the

power.

Now, I have to clear up some false statements that have been made in

this debate. First off is this idea that you’re going to have extreme parties

if you have proportional representation. Well, guess what. We have extreme

parties with first-past-the-post. You don’t have to look past Quebec recently,

where they’re denying people who wear turbans, where they’re denying people who

wear hijabs to work as teachers, to work as police officers. That is within the

first-past-the-post system.

You have a new party that’s forming. This gentleman who is starting a

party from the Conservative Party…. He’s a branch of the Conservative Party.

They’re spreading out and starting their own party against immigration and

against diversity, saying: “Diversity is the enemy.” That is

first-past-the-post.

There is example after example of first-past-the-post where extremism

comes. Actually, you know what? The member speaks about it, and I’m going to

speak about the extremism of their coalition. I was at their convention this

weekend. All I heard was speaker after speaker say: “You know what? I want to

remind you. We are a big-tent coalition. Let’s stick together. Please, please

stick together.”

We have members as part of this big coalition here. We have some who

support SOGI in the curriculum system. I commend some of the members over there

that did some work on bringing that into the curriculum system. Then we have

members who are actively campaigning against it and putting out misinformation.

This is about keeping our kids safe, and their coalition over there has two

extreme views.

They can’t even agree if climate change exists, on that side of the

House. You’re talking about extremeness of a coalition, where one side doesn’t

even believe that climate change exists and one side, a small portion of it

maybe, that believes it exists. That’s just climate change.

You can go on, issue by issue. They’re lecturing this out of the House

that you can’t have a coalition with two parties that disagree when they’ve

had, for 16 years, a coalition that doesn’t agree on fundamental issues in our

society.

I was, again, watching the B.C. Liberal convention and hearing them talk

about how great the leader was and how happy they were. If they had

first-past-the-post system in their leadership race, Diane Watts would have

been the leader of their party. But they have Andrew Wilkinson now. Perhaps

that’s why their membership….

Deputy Speaker: No names.

R. Kahlon: They don’t want proportional representation. Perhaps that’s the

reason.

There are so many things I can say, but I found this doozy I wanted to

share with the members. Former Premier Christy Clark, on the radio…. I have to

read this quote, because it’s so fascinating.

“I see so many people whose interests and, in many cases, whose incomes

are dependent on keeping the system the way it is — people who, unlike you,

relish the ugly realities of the first-past system. I liked our

first-past-the-post system. Now, of course, looking back, I realized that at

the time, I liked it because our current system served my personal interest as

a politician very well, thank you very much.

“I was an elected politician. I had been chosen by the first-past-the-post

system. And I, like many of the interests, didn’t want to see a change in the

system that worked very well for me.”

“Worked very well,” she said.

“What do I hear,” she said, talking about people she’s been hearing from

on the radio. “What do I hear when I talk to you about politics? I hear that

people are sick to death why our political system works. I increasingly know

that the frustration is born out in the polls with fewer and fewer young people

going to the polls every single year. They just say there’s no point in

exercising their franchise — a franchise, by the way, a generation fought and

died to protect. They say that there’s no point in doing that because their

vote doesn’t matter.”

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member.

[11:30 a.m.]

R. Kahlon: This is the former Premier, Christy Clark, that’s talking about

this.

M. Bernier: I think I’ll start by recognizing and acknowledging the member who spoke

before me for basically giving credit to the people of British Columbia, who

understood that the B.C. Liberals are a coalition, that we have a free voice,

that we have free opinions, that we can actually be respectful and have those

debates and that we represent a large portion of the province of British

Columbia.

Unlike the members opposite, who are told by their Premier what to say,

how to vote and what to do, we actually have a free voice on this side. That is

something that we actually acknowledge….

Interjections.

Deputy Speaker: Members.

M. Bernier: That allows us to represent a lot of people, which is probably why for

16 years we stayed in government. It’s because we were able to have those

discussions and put forward ideas, platforms and opinions for the people of

British Columbia to decide or not to decide whether they wanted to put us in

government.

Let’s go back to the topic at hand. I think it’s really important to

recognize what this government is trying to do and, with this motion — 40

percent of the popular vote — what they’re trying to put forward. What they’re

neglecting to tell the people of British Columbia is what’s happening right

now.

We have 87 separate ridings, separate elections, in the province of

British Columbia right now. If I look at my riding as an example, I got almost

80 percent of the popular vote in my riding last election. There are people in

this House that are sitting here right now, on my side and on that side, who

got closer to 40. My vote is worth one, just like theirs. I’m representing an

area, a jurisdiction, based on an election that took place under that system.

Is that fair? Absolutely. We have drawn this province up to recognize the

geographical differences, the economic differences, the ranges of opinions that

we have in this province and why those differences need to be

respected.

Now, this motion that the government has put forward here, where they

say 40 percent, and they want to have all that…. Under proportional

representation, what the government is not saying is that 90 percent of the

population should tell the rest of the province what to do — that 90 percent of

the population, in urban British Columbia, will now have the say of what

happens in the rest of the province. The reason we have 87 separate ridings and

87 separate elections is to avoid that exact situation, to recognize the

geographical, economic and regional differences that we have.

When you look at this referendum that the government has put forward,

they are taking all of that away. They are not coming straight and clear with

the people of the province of British Columbia on how they’re actually putting

this referendum forward. Now, if they were willing to stand behind what they’re

trying to preach, give all the information and go to exactly what they say

they’re trying to accomplish, which is the voters having the say, they have

completely gone the opposite direction by not putting that information out

there.

I look forward to the next speaker after me probably reading the same

speech that the three before him read. At the same time, what they should be

doing is actually acknowledging that they’re not giving fair information to the

people of British Columbia to make a fair and informed decision. They have not

had the guts to come out and say: “We’re getting rid of 87 ridings.” They’ve

tried to do this whole, “Your vote will count,” and all these great

slogans.

Maybe they should be truthful and actually tell the people of British

Columbia…. Maybe they — a good portion of them will be in this position —

should be going back to their ridings, advocating and telling them: “I’m

lobbying to get rid of your voice. I’m lobbying to get rid of your MLA. As an

NDP MLA, I no longer want to represent you. It’s not going to happen, and

that’s why I’m voting with what my Premier has told me to do.”

By the way, every single day it seems like there’s a new announcement or

a change as they’re trying to manipulate this whole system. As soon as they see

one door closing, they try to open it somewhere else, with a new announcement

to try to give the money-back guarantee and try to scare people into voting for

this system with all these slogans. They have not done their due diligence.

They have not put forward the right information for the people of British

Columbia.

This motion today is just another example of a slogan that means nothing

— that has no meat on the bones of what’s going to happen in the province if PR

passes. If they had done their job, put the information forward and taken

politics out of this debate, then, obviously, it would have been more fair for

the people of B.C.

[11:35 a.m.]

They have not done that. They have not accomplished that, which is why

people are either throwing away their ballots or recycling them — can’t be

bothered to vote. How is that fair to our democratic system? They have failed

to do their jobs.

N. Simons: It’s a pleasure to stand and discuss the motion put forward by my friend

from Surrey-Fleetwood. I join the voices of my colleagues, who are happy that

the people of British Columbia have an opportunity to have a say on the system

that we use to elect us here in this House.

I will just point out that my friends from both sides of the House have

made good points. Some of them — there are degrees of agreement with specific

points. We have places where we don’t disagree entirely; we have places where

we do disagree entirely. This is a debate, and this is a question being put to

the people of the province, with very good information from the independent

Elections B.C. to ensure that the people of the province have the information

they need. I don’t hear any examples of the opposition saying that they’re

helping their constituents understand the vote. They’re scaring them a little

bit, but they’re not giving them a true representation of what the options are

that are available to them.

Quite frankly, the previous member for Peace River South talked about

the fact that we have 87 elections in this province, and we in fact do. Every

MLA gets elected. The first time I was elected, it was with less than 50

percent, and subsequent to that, it was with more than 50 percent. I would

point out that this — a bit illusory — memory that he has about the 16 years of

Liberal government suggested that all our voices were heard. In fact, I would

say one of the best arguments for proportional representation is the record of

the Liberal government. I think that many people in this province are in fact

motivated to change the system because of 2001 and the subsequent

elections.

I think it’s fair to say that, when there were 77 members of their party

in this House and two members of the opposition, a lot of power went to

government, and that power went to their heads. They made a lot of decisions

from which we have not yet recovered in this province. They made a lot of

decisions that created an extreme social deficit in this province. That was

because there was one party with all the decisions, one party with 100 percent

of the decisions.

They made changes in my community that, if my voice had been at the

table, would never have occurred: over 100 percent increase in ferry fares,

tests for senior drivers that were not based on science or any evidence at all.

There were so many things that this government did that caused harm to my

community and that would not have been contemplated had the voices of

minorities been included in their decision-making process. Their government

since 2001 is the best reason that we need a proportional representation system

in this province.

They can continue to use fear as much as they want. They can continue to

make up examples that don’t exist. Unfortunately, some people listen to them. I

hope that the people of this province recognize that their vote will go towards

their voice being heard in this chamber, regardless of if it’s the winning

party or not, because their voice matters in this House. Their voice should

matter in this House.

The way they like it is that they want to be able to rule with 100

percent of the power. Luckily, we escaped that this last time. We have examples

of places where extremism takes over in first-past-the-post. It’s not about the

electoral system. It’s about the strength of character of the people of this

province. I have faith in the people of British Columbia to make a good

decision, to get a balanced view in this House and not have a winner-take-all

situation where we have some policies that are good for some and bad for

others.

We’ll have policies that are developed in cooperation, in conjunction

with each party. It’s possible. I’m not a cynic in that respect. I believe we

can get along. I believe we can get together and sit at a table and figure out

policy that serves the best interests of British Columbians. It’s not a

winner-take-all situation, nor should it be, in our democratic

system.

We have extremists on that side in this House now, and they’re talking

about a new system that’s going to create extremism. We have people of all

kinds, in this province, in our parties as they exist.

Interjections.

Deputy Speaker: Members.

N. Simons: They’re not going to have more power. We’re going to have the power of

the people in a proportional representation system.

[11:40 a.m.]

I sure hope the people of British Columbia know that it’s not a scary

thing, as the Liberals would like us to think. It’s a modernization of our

system, and I encourage everyone to be out there, casting their vote and making

their voice heard, as it will be under a proportional system.

B. Stewart: It gives me pleasure to rise in this House to speak to the motion before

us. I rise to speak to the motion that “this House recognizes that 40 percent

of the popular vote should not equal 100 percent of the legislative power.”

This motion is flawed. The very makeup of this chamber proves that.

A coalition of 56 percent of the popular vote holds the power and

currently has 51 percent of the seats. Were this motion true, our party, having

received just over 40 percent in the last election, would hold 100 percent of

the legislative power. Unless the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head is regretting

being handcuffed to the Premier, then our 40 percent of the popular vote equals

zero percent of the legislative power.

But do you know what? That’s okay. That’s the system that has produced

stable governments in pretty much every election in our history here in British

Columbia, be it NDP, Social Credit, the B.C. Liberal Party, the Conservative

Party. This province has benefited from governments with clear mandates and

authority to make good and clear on their election promises.

Members on the other side want to take that away, to a system where

election promises garner votes and then fade away when political parties escape

to post-election coalition talks. As the Leader of the Third Party has said in

this chamber, election promises don’t matter when the confidence and supply

agreement trumps all.

To be fair, the government has indeed fulfilled some of its promises,

especially those that they borrowed from the B.C. Liberal budget back in

February of 2017. Things like cutting PST on electricity and reducing MSP to 50

percent, eventually phasing it out.

But where is the $400 renters grant? No hydro rate freeze. No $10-a-day

daycare yet. Perhaps the government would prefer that the motion say that this

House acknowledges that 40 percent of the seats should make good on only 30

percent of their promises in order to secure 100 percent of the

power.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. The Greens are so desperate to

change our electoral system to their benefit that their 4 percent of the seats

have voted with the NDP 100 percent of the time. That’s the type of democracy

that they prefer.

After the confidence and supply agreement, the Greens have effectively

handcuffed themselves to the NDP in exchange for this PR referendum. This is

not democracy. This is a power grab.

But imagine if it were strategic and they had decided to support the

government, be it NDP or Liberal, on a vote-by-vote basis. Then 4 percent of

the seats in this House would be dictating the direction of the government.

That’s the dream scenario for the B.C. Greens.

They bungled it in 2017, and now they’re going to make sure that we

change our entire democracy so that they can punch well above their weight

going forward. In reality, the B.C. Green Party does not support this

government’s motion as it is currently worded. Forty percent is far too high.

They’ll never come close to that.

Taxpayers are funding a $1 million secretariat so that the Greens can

manage their relationship with the NDP. Really, the member for Oak Bay–Gordon

Head should have asked the member for Surrey-Fleetwood, via the secretariat, to

rewrite this motion. It’s divorced from reality.

It should say that both the NDP and Green support PR and that “be it

resolved that this House recognizes that 16 percent of the popular vote should

equal 100 percent of the legislative power.” But that’s what a slim majority in

this House seems to truly believe, in supporting proportional

representation.

This motion is flawed and so out to lunch. I will not be supporting this

motion.

[11:45 a.m.]

B. D’Eith: The people of British Columbia are voting on whether or not to modernize

our electoral system. Right now we have a system, the first-past-the-post

system, where 40 percent of the vote leads to 100 percent of the power. The

members opposite are doing everything they can to maintain the status quo. “The

process is flawed,” they say. “The systems are too complicated,” they say. “Pro

rep will lead to the emergence of dangerous fringe parties,” they say. In fact,

they’re willing to say about anything to confuse and to instil fear in the

voting public so they’ll vote no.

They say these things for one reason. They know that if pro rep passes,

they will not be able to continue to get false majorities in our Legislature

under their big-tent coalition. It’s as simple as that. They know that they

will not be able to continue to get 100 percent of the power with only 40

percent of the vote, and they’re terrified.

Since 1928, only one majority government has had over 50 percent of the

vote — one. That’s the way the B.C. Liberals like it. The status quo ensures

that their coalition stays intact, and they can try to get another majority to

swing policy back to the interests of their big business backers.

At their convention this weekend, the B.C. Liberals talked about

opportunity. Perhaps they should have talked about opportunism, which would

have been a better, or at least more honest, slogan when dealing with the party

that governed with impunity for the last 16 years. For governments that get

majority after majority do just that. They govern with impunity. Policy

suffers. Legislation is less challenged. Governments lose touch with the

public, something that the Leader of the Opposition actually said: “We are

preaching to people at 30,000 feet.” This was the Leader of the

Opposition.

What’s really at stake here is keeping a system that promotes big-tent

politics and policy lurch or moving to a new system that will allow every vote

to count, where parties work together, where politics is more civil and the

will of the majority is actually reflected in the Legislature.

Now, the Attorney General conducted the largest public consultation in

British Columbia history, with 90,000 people and dozens of organizations. The

referendum questions were based on this, were adopted by cabinet and vetted and

approved by Elections B.C. The Liberals want to say it’s rigged. This couldn’t

be further from the truth. The process was open, transparent and

consultative.

What about the questions? The first question is as simple as it gets:

whether or not people want to stay with first-past-the-post or move to a

proportional system. It doesn’t get simpler than that.

The second question asks whether or not we will choose between three

systems: dual-member, mixed-member or rural-urban. Elections B.C. sent out a

voters guide to every B.C. voter with very clear and non-partisan explanations

of those systems. On line, Elections B.C. actually posted videos explaining

these to people. I have every faith that the B.C. public can make an educated

decision as to how to proceed with this referendum, something that the

opposition doesn’t seem to have. I think that we should have faith in our

voting public.

“What about the dangerous fringe parties? No,” says the no side. In

fact, the most outrageous strategy that the no side has is the idea that fringe

parties are going to suddenly take over the government. In fact, they’re

doubling down on this strategy.

The reality is that out of 14 parties, other than the three in the

House, only one received 1 percent of the vote. That was the mainstream

Conservative Party. All the rest were under 1 percent. In order to get a seat

in pro rep, you need 5 percent. The fears that the B.C. Liberals are

promulgating are simply unjustified.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

The most egregious of these is about the far-right parties or Nazis

coming to the Legislature. In reality, that would mean that 100,000 people, or

5 percent of the voters in British Columbia, would have to vote for a Nazi

party to surpass this threshold. Let’s face it. If we have 100,000 voters

voting for Nazis, we don’t have a voting problem. We have a societal

problem.

The no side should be ashamed of this tactic. It’s unfounded, it’s

inaccurate, it’s inflammatory, and it’s misleading.

Why am I voting for pro rep, and why should we support it? It provides

stable governments. Forty percent of the vote leads to 40 percent of the seats.

The voter turnout is higher, especially among young people. Government policies

are closer to the majority view. Citizens are actually more satisfied with the

performance of democratic institutions, even when their party is not in power.

There’s only a small in­crease in the number of parties, and the share of

women and Indigenous members elected to the parliament increases.

These are all amazing reasons why we should support pro rep and why I am

supporting this resolution and why I am going to vote for pro rep moving

forward.

G. Kyllo: I’m proud to rise on behalf of the hard-working constituents of Shuswap

and speak to the motion that’s before the House. I’ve got to say that I don’t

take my position as MLA for Shuswap lightly. I’m very proud and honoured to

represent the hard-working people of Shuswap, who have a diverse range of

different talents and experiences.

[11:50 a.m.]

It’s through me that I bring their voice to the Legislature. It’s really

important as we have a look at this motion that’s before the House.

In the 2013 election, I was elected with just under 50 percent of the

vote, but I worked hard to represent the constituents of Shuswap and to reach

out and actually take all their concerns and bring those to Victoria. Over the

course of a four-year term, I was able to increase my vote to where, in the

last election, I did have over 50 percent of the vote. I’m very proud and

honoured for that.

I think, as the member for Peace River South mentioned earlier, that in

our province with 87 different ridings that have very different geography,

different economies within these specific ridings, it’s important for the

elected MLA to make sure that they are truly the voice for their riding. I’ll

tell you that when constituents come to see me in my office, I care not for

their political persuasion. It matters not. My job is to represent all of the

constituents of Shuswap. I do not take that job lightly, nor does any of my

colleagues. I hope that even colleagues on the other side of the House do not

take that job lightly.

It’s extremely important to make sure that when we are representing our

constituents, we bring those diverse views to this chamber and to our caucuses

so that their views and their voices are not overlooked.

Now, unfortunately, what we see with the current way that this

referendum is being brought forward to British Columbians is it’s actually

stripping their voice. So instead of electing your MLA, a certain number, a

significant number, of MLAs will actually be selected for you off of a party

list. How could an MLA, under a new form of PR, actually be selected from a

party list, who doesn’t even necessarily have to reside within your own

riding…?

Interjection.

G. Kyllo: How are they going to potentially bring the views of your constituents

to Victoria when their political persuasion is totally…?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. The member for Shuswap has the floor.

G. Kyllo: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s important to take note that the idea of being able to elect

somebody locally is so fundamentally important to your democratic right. To

potentially, under this new, flawed system that is actually being put before

British Columbians, take that and put that into the politicians’

hands….

We know clearly why this referendum is before the House. It is nothing

more…. The Green Party certainly would like to see their vote count increase

the number of seats in this House, to increase their actual influence on

government. Do you think that after the referendum, if it was to move forward,

the NDPs or Greens would actually want to broaden their political views and

broaden the way that they reach out to different provinces?

I was very proud to be at our B.C. Liberals Convention this past

weekend. It was all about that — how we’re going to open up the doors and

windows to our party, how we are going to take this time in opposition to look

at how we can actually improve and broaden the way we provide better

representation to all British Columbians.

The manner in which this referendum was brought forward is absolutely

shameful, and I certainly will not be in any way voting to support a change in

the referendum. It’s very important that British Columbians, if they are

presented with that opportunity to choose a different type of electoral system

in this country or this province, are provided with all of the

information.

That is not being undertaken under this current referendum, with 29

different details being left for the politicians to determine after the

referendum. That is wrong.

With that, I’ll take my seat.

S. Chandra Herbert: It gives me pleasure today to speak for a more democratic legislature, a

more democratic electoral system. I am not in favour of a system that

privileges the minority over the majority, and currently that’s, unfortunately,

how the electoral system in B.C. works.

All you need is one vote more than the next person with the most, even

if the rest of the population voted completely differently. You could get ten

votes, the next person gets nine, the next person gets eight, the next person

gets seven, and the next person gets five. The person who gets ten votes gets

the majority of the seats under our current system. That doesn’t make sense to

me.

I would rather a system that urged parties to work more collaboratively,

got MLAs from the different political parties to put a little water in the

wine, try and find ways, use humility to try and build collaboration and better

teamwork.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

S. Chandra Herbert: That’s how you get better communities. I believe that’s how most of our

neighbourhoods work.

[11:55 a.m.]

We don’t say to the people: “Well, you know, you have a slightly bigger

family than mine, so you must get to control who runs and who’s able to use the

playground.” We don’t do that. We say: “Kids can learn to work together. They

can play together on the same playground.”

Unfortunately, in our current system, if you had the slightly bigger

family, in this example, you get to rule the playground. Others might get to

ask to play, but if you decide that they can’t play, well, too bad. Even if

there are more families — ten families of three, one family of five — that

family of five gets to rule the roost. That doesn’t make sense.

Of course, we were just at Halloween. If you were out trick-or-treating

with your kids, here’s an example of how first-past-the-post works in that

example. One kid gets 25 candies. The next kid gets 20. The next kid gets 15

candies. The kid that got 25 candies all of a sudden gets to control all of the

candies. Do some of the kids get some? No, actually, all the kids get no

candies except for the one kid that got 25. That’s the first-past-the-post

system.

I think a better system is actually where you get to cooperate. One guy

gets 25. The next gets 20. Maybe they work it out. They go: “Well, we’ll share

some of that. The one that gets 15? We’ll share a little bit with them, too.

Let’s find a way to work together in community.” I’d rather have governments

that worked to establish that all of our voices have value as opposed to one

that privileges the minority of use.

Now, I know that the opposition has been quoting Glen Clark, saying:

“He’s against proportional representation, so we agree with Glen Clark.” It

wasn’t so long ago that the opposition decried the fact that Glen Clark formed

government with less popular vote than they had. The B.C. Liberals cried and

said that that was illegitimate, that that was wrong. He got 39 percent; they

got 42 percent, I think. They didn’t get to be government under that system. I

don’t think that was fair.

I want a system that actually reflects the popular vote, not distorts

the popular vote. That’s why I support proportional representation. I believe

we should have a Legislature that actually represents the full value, the full

voices of our system and where you actually get parties to work together so

that you have a better representation of the popular will, rather than just: “I

got one more candy than you. I got one more vote than you. I get to control

everything else.”

S. Chandra Herbert moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. C. Trevena moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.

The Official Report of Debates ( Hansard ) and webcasts of

proceedings

are available on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on

television.

Copyright © 2018: British Columbia

Hansard Services, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada