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November 30, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Nov-30 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 30 November 2005 Mercredi 30 novembre 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

PAUL HENDERSON

MIDDLESEX COMMUNITY LIVING

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

ANDREW STEWART

MILL CLOSURE

BILL FARLINGER

YOUTH SERVICES

CO-OPERATIVES

JOURNALISTS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS

RESIGNATION OF MEMBERS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CONSUMER REPORTING

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR

LES RENSEIGNEMENTS CONCERNANT

LE CONSOMMATEUR

WASTE DISPOSAL SITE 41

IN THE TOWNSHIP OF TINY ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LE LIEU 41

D'ÉLIMINATION DE DÉCHETS

DANS LE CANTON DE TINY

DISCLOSURE OF CRIMES

ON PROPERTY ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA DIVULGATION

DES CRIMES COMMIS SUR DES BIENS

MOTIONS

WITHDRAWAL OF BILLS 35 AND 101

AND NOTICE OF MOTION

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

ORAL QUESTIONS

KARLA HOMOLKA

ENERGY CONTRACTS

PLANT CLOSURES

ENERGY CONTRACTS

MUNICIPAL TAXATION

WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM

TRADITIONAL CHINESE MEDICINE

HEALTH CARE

ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS

ENERGY CONSERVATION

PLANT CLOSURES

NORTHERN ONTARIO HERITAGE FUND

IMMIGRATION POLICY

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

VIOLENT CRIME

VISITOR

PETITIONS

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

CANCER TREATMENT

DIABETES TREATMENT

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

DIABETES TREATMENT

AUTISM TREATMENT

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

MANDATORY RETIREMENT

HIGHWAY 26

DIABETES TREATMENT

GASOLINE PRICES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ENERGY CONSERVATION RESPONSIBILITY ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA RESPONSABILITÉ

EN MATIÈRE DE CONSERVATION

DE L'ÉNERGIE

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

PAUL HENDERSON

Mr. Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): There aren't many of us, with the exception of some of the younger members, who don't remember the

goal of the century. The date was September 28, 1972, and it was the Canada-Russia summit hockey series. The goal, with 34 seconds remaining in the final game, was scored by Paul Henderson. That

famous goal won the game and the series for Canada, and created a hockey hero: Paul Henderson.

On the 25th anniversary of that goal, Paul Henderson was immortalized on a Canada Post stamp and a Royal Canadian Mint silver coin. He is also a member of the

Canada's Sports Hall of Fame, but has not been named to the Hockey Hall of Fame.

A Wingham radio station -- the Bull, 94.5 -- with the help of Mike Brough, wants to change that. Paul Henderson, a native of Lucknow, is being supported by them,

and they are currently recruiting signatures for a petition to help get Paul in the hall. Their goal is to get 50,000 signatures, which they will then present to the Hockey Hall of Fame board.

Until January 1, 2006, listeners can sign the petition on-line at www.945thebull.ca or at several area businesses from Wingham to Goderich to Owen Sound.

In a show of support to his hometown, Paul Henderson spent last weekend in Lucknow as a special guest at the Lucknow regional silver stick hockey tournament.

I believe Paul Henderson deserves a spot in the Hockey Hall of Fame, and I am pleased to promote this cause as well as add my name to the list of supporters.

MIDDLESEX COMMUNITY LIVING

Mrs. Maria Van Bommel (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): This fall, I had the honour of representing our government at the 40th anniversary festivities

of Middlesex Community Living. It was a wonderful celebration of dedication by board members, staff, parents and family, volunteers, supporters and, most importantly, those people who are

supported.

We heard from a mother, Catherine Case, about her determination to find support for her son, Bob, who was born with Down's syndrome. She told us about the lack

of resources available to her 40 years ago and her decision to ignore her family doctor's advice to have Bob institutionalized. It's obvious today that Catherine and her husband made the right

decision. Bob is now supported by Middlesex Community Living, he is in supported employment, he lives with another gentleman in their own apartment and is a valued member of our community. That was

the start of the community living effort in Middlesex.

Over the years, I've often seen Bob and his friends around Strathroy. They are truly contributing members of our community. I want to take this opportunity to

congratulate everyone who has associated with Middlesex Community Living and all such associations throughout Ontario for the work they do.

Attitudes have changed greatly over the past 40 years, but we still have a long way to go.

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): Who knew that deer lived in the forest and who knew that apples grow on trees? Well, thanks to Dalton McGuinty's

multi-million dollar advertising campaign, taxpayers who think that deer live in condos or apples grow in grocery stores will now have been given this thoughtful and profound lesson in science.

Dalton has made a lot of wild claims in his day, but the notion that his greenbotch plan has given rise to deer and apples is a bit too much even for his standards.

Not only that, but Dalton's greenbotch foundation has opened up plush new offices in the high-rent real estate in the Yorkville area. Putting the greenbotch

headquarters in downtown Toronto is like putting Ontario's capital in Labrador.

If the Premier had bothered to ask municipalities in the greenbelt, farmers in the greenbelt and taxpayers in the greenbelt, they would have told him to put that

money into helping out municipalities like Lincoln, Pelham or Grimsby, which had their funding cut and their growth frozen. Farmers in the greenbelt would have told them to put the money into

programs to assist the marketing of their products, research and to help them out with all the challenges that farmers are facing today.

When my constituents and constituents throughout the greenbelt area see a $1.5-million minimum of taxpayer money going to these rather insulting advertisements

and not flowing to assist farmers or small municipalities, do you know what they say? "No wonder they call it the greenbotch."

ANDREW STEWART

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): This Saturday marks a very tragic event in the history of East York. In fact, it's the first anniversary

of the death of Andrew "Drew" Stewart. He was a young man, 16 years old, who was killed in front of a set of restaurants on Coxwell Avenue, just north of East York Collegiate. It was something that

shocked our entire community. It was something for which I think we as a community, we as a neighbourhood were unprepared for: that two teenaged boys would be involved in an altercation and that

one of them would pull out a knife and kill a young man who was doing nothing more than defending his friend.

But his mother and his friends have asked for peace. They do not believe in retribution and they have asked the community to remain calm, and in fact the

community has remained calm. Drew's mother did up a T-shirt with Drew's face on it and with the very good words underneath, "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil by good."

This Saturday, people of East York will gather to remember Drew. We will be at Taylor Creek Park, just opposite Crescent Town. We will be planting a tree in his

memory and we will be talking to all the people of our community and the greater Toronto and Ontario communities to ask them to look at what is troubling youth, to ask them to please, please remain

calm and, in her own words, "overcome evil by good."

MILL CLOSURE

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): I had planned a different statement today from the one I'm presenting, but received some

news this morning that must be shared with this House. Today, Domtar announced that it will be closing a number of mills, among them the one in the city of Cornwall. This comes as a blow to both

the city and the rest of my riding. The Domtar mill has been a pillar of the community for decades.

My deepest sympathies go out to the men and women who awoke this morning to the most unfortunate news possible. My late father worked at Domtar. This news

certainly comes as a direct blow to me as well. To these men and women I extend my support and the support of the government of Ontario.

From the get-go, I have worked with my colleagues, the Ministers of Economic Development and Trade, Energy, Natural Resources and Labour to defend jobs in the

riding. Speaking with the Premier this morning, he voiced his concern and determination to overcome the difficulties this community presently faces. I want the people of my riding to know that

their government, their Premier and I will double our efforts to promote the benefits that my riding offers employers: a perfect location, a bilingual workforce and the most dedicated, hard-working

individuals in the province. This government will do all it can to help them through these difficult times. I will work diligently with my provincial, federal and municipal colleagues to encourage

job opportunities for the people of Cornwall and all of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. I certainly want to extend my thanks to the mayor of the city of Cornwall, Phil Poirier, for his diligent

work on this file too.

BILL FARLINGER

Mr. Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): On Monday, November 28, Bill Farlinger, a good friend and a great citizen of Ontario, passed away.

Bill was a very successful businessman and a chartered accountant, retiring in 1993 as chairman and chief executive officer of the very large accounting firm Ernst and Young. After that, members of

this Legislature will remember that he served as chair of Ontario Hydro and its successor company, Ontario Power Generation, until 2003.

For his philanthropic contributions to Ontario and Canada, Bill received the Order of Canada and many other prestigious awards. Bill worked hand in hand with his

wife Esther, raising millions of dollars for many different charitable causes.

I met Bill in 1990, when he agreed to help Mike Harris become the leader of our party and, later, Premier of Ontario. I was impressed that a man of his status

and responsibility would devote significant time and effort to help Mike. He did it because he believed in Mike and because he felt a strong sense of duty to his province and his country. Bill was

one of Mike's most important advisers and friends.

In 1996, as energy minister, I went to Bill, then chairman of Ontario Hydro, to divide the corporation into two entities, one for generation and one for

transmission. In spite of huge opposition from within his organization, Bill carried out this division because he saw it as the best solution for Ontario. He worked hard at OPG, seeking solutions

to long-standing and very difficult problems. I believe he did the best that anyone could, given the circumstances, and I thank him for his service and dedication.

Bill was adored by his wife, Esther, and his children, Brian, Pamela, Craig, Leonard, David and his stepson Philip, and their spouses. His family, his

grandchildren and his many friends will miss Bill, and our heartfelt condolences go out to them today.

YOUTH SERVICES

Mr. David Orazietti (Sault Ste. Marie): I rise in the House today to recognize an important investment our government is making in Sault Ste.

Marie. This $6-million project will result in 20 to 30 new jobs at a 16-bed youth justice centre, and is part of our $30-billion five-year plan to renew Ontario's infrastructure. The architectural

work is presently being completed, and construction is expected to begin in the summer of 2006, with the centre to open in 2007.

Following the election of our government, we created the Ministry of Children and Youth Services to better coordinate and serve the young people of this

province. I want to commend the first Minister of Children and Youth Services, Marie Bountrogianni, and the present minister, Mary Anne Chambers, for ensuring that this new centre was in fact built

in our city.

The past government closed our youth justice centre and chose instead to transport the area's youth to Sudbury at a cost of over $500,000 per year, something our

previous NDP member failed to reverse. We're addressing a very poor decision by the past government by ensuring that these young people receive the treatment and programs they need and deserve as

close to home as possible.

The new centre represents a broader commitment to be not only tough on crime but smart on crime. Our government is committed to the development of a

comprehensive youth justice strategy to enable young people to become responsible, accountable, law-abiding citizens. We'll continue to improve and develop new services and programs for young

offenders that are more effective and that maintain the highest level of public safety for Ontarians. By recognizing the unique needs of youth in conflict, we can help keep our communities

safe.

CO-OPERATIVES

Mr. Bruce Crozier (Essex): It gives me great pleasure to welcome today the Ontario Co-operative Association and the Conseil de la

Coopération de l'Ontario to the Legislature. Tonight they're jointly hosting their eighth MPP Queen's Park reception, and I invite all members of the Legislature to attend in the legislative

dining room from 6 to 8 p.m.

There are more than 1,900 co-ops, credit unions and caisses populaires in Ontario, with over $19 billion in assets, over 2.3 million members and employing

thousands of Ontarians. Not only are co-op organizations a strong economic force; they're open to everyone, regardless of race, culture, religion, philosophical beliefs or economic standing.

A co-operative, as its name implies, is people coming together to meet a common need. It is essentially a form of business enterprise that can be utilized in all

sectors of the economy, including health care, housing, food, agriculture, service, financial, youth, renewable energy and First Nations communities.

Tonight, as part of their reception, the Ontario co-operative sector is unveiling its white paper on co-operative development in Ontario. Two years in the

making, the co-op sector's white paper, entitled Capturing Co-operative Opportunities, is the result of extensive consultation with the Ontario co-operative sector, with government representatives

and with other stakeholders. It is a call to the Ontario government and the Ontario co-operative sector to work together to secure the province's collective prosperity.

JOURNALISTS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS

Mr. Tim Peterson (Mississauga South): I rise today to recognize an organization called Journalists for Human Rights and its founder, Ben

Peterson.

After receiving his M.A. in political science from the London School of Economics, Ben spent eight months in Accra, Ghana, advising the Ghanaian government on

the incorporation of human rights into its constitution. From there, Ben realized there was a systematic abuse of human rights in many countries and widespread ignorance of the same throughout

Canada and the world. The solution: Educate journalists about these abuses, not only in the countries involved but also in Canada and around the world, so they could write about them and educate us

all about them.

In three short years, Journalists for Human Rights has offices in six countries, has chapters in all the journalism schools in Canada and has achieved

sustainable funding that supports a staff of six. It is truly remarkable that leadership of this magnitude should come from new graduates, but then again, he is my nephew and he is the son of David

Peterson. We should all expect the unexpected.

Today in the members' gallery we have Ben Peterson and his fellow workers, Carina Lentsch, Thomas Asiimwe and Lauren Hortie. May we all applaud their idealism

and their accomplishments.

Applause.

RESIGNATION OF MEMBERS

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I beg to inform the House that vacancies have occurred in the membership of the House by reason of the

resignation of John Baird as the member for the electoral district of Nepean-Carleton, by reason of the resignation of Marilyn Churley as the member for the electoral district of Toronto-Danforth

and by reason of the resignation of Jim Flaherty as the member for the electoral district of Whitby-Ajax.

Accordingly, I have issued my warrant to the Chief Election Officer for the issue of writs for by-elections.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Mr. Tony C. Wong (Markham): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on regulations and private bills and move its

adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr. Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill as amended:

Bill 123,

An Act to require that meetings of provincial and municipal boards, commissions and other public bodies be open to the public / Projet de loi 123, Loi

exigeant que les réunions des commissions et conseils provinciaux et municipaux et d'autres organismes publics soient ouvertes au public.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed? Agreed.

The bill is therefore ordered for third reading.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CONSUMER REPORTING

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR

LES RENSEIGNEMENTS CONCERNANT

LE CONSOMMATEUR

Mr. Ruprecht moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 38,

An Act to amend the Consumer Reporting Act / Projet de loi 38, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les renseignements concernant le consommateur.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member may have a brief statement.

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): This bill provides that if there has been a security breach and personal financial information has been stolen,

consumer reporting agencies and our financial institutions must inform the consumer. This bill also provides that on credit files, vital information such as social insurance numbers must be masked

in order to minimize identity theft. The bill further provides that consumer reporting agencies shall investigate disputed information within 30 days and correct or delete any information found to

be unconfirmed.

This bill also provides that consumer reporting agencies shall only report inquiry records resulting out of actual applications for credit. The bill provides

that consumer reporting agencies shall also report information on consumer reports in written or electronically transmitted form, and not orally. The bill provides that consumers are entitled to a

copy of a report obtained by a third party upon request so as to be able to challenge its accuracy.

Finally, the bill incorporates guidelines for the storing and safekeeping of consumer information, including electronic signatures, under the Personal

Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act for the purpose of minimizing identity theft.

WASTE DISPOSAL SITE 41

IN THE TOWNSHIP OF TINY ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LE LIEU 41

D'ÉLIMINATION DE DÉCHETS

DANS LE CANTON DE TINY

Mr. Dunlop moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 39,

An Act to prevent the disposal of waste at Site 41 in the Township of Tiny / Projet de loi 39, Loi visant à empêcher l'élimination de

déchets sur le lieu 41 dans le canton de Tiny.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member may have a brief statement.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): The bill prohibits the disposal of waste at site 41 in the township of Tiny, located approximately four

kilometres north of the village of Elmvale and four kilometres south of the village of Wyevale. The bill revokes an environmental approval that has been issued in connection with the possible

disposal of waste at the site. The bill extinguishes certain causes of action that may exist in respect of the site, and the bill entitles the county of Simcoe to compensation from the crown in

respect of certain expenses if the Legislative Assembly authorizes the payment of compensation.

DISCLOSURE OF CRIMES

ON PROPERTY ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA DIVULGATION

DES CRIMES COMMIS SUR DES BIENS

Mr. Sergio moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 40,

An Act respecting the disclosure of information about crimes to purchasers of land and to tenants / Projet de loi 40,

Loi sur la divulgation de

renseignements sur les crimes commis aux acheteurs de biens-fonds et aux locataires.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member may have a brief statement.

Mr. Mario Sergio (York West): The bill amends the Conveyancing and Law of Property Act and the Tenant Protection Act, 1997, to provide that a

vendor in an agreement of purchase and sale and a landlord in a tenancy agreement must disclose to the purchaser or tenant whether the property that is the subject of the agreement has been used to

commit a crime during the time the vendor or landlord had a legal interest in the property.

MOTIONS

WITHDRAWAL OF BILLS 35 AND 101

AND NOTICE OF MOTION

Hon. David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal, Deputy Government House Leader): I seek unanimous consent to put forward a

motion without notice regarding members who have resigned and private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Caplan has asked for unanimous consent to deal with the withdrawal of business before private

members' hour. Agreed? Agreed.

Hon. Mr. Caplan: I move that the order for second reading of Bill 35,

An Act to amend the Occupational Health and Safety Act to protect

workers from harassment in the workplace, standing in the name of Ms. Churley, be discharged and the bill withdrawn; that the order referring Bill 101,

An Act to amend the Health Insurance

Act, to the standing committee on regulations and private bills, standing in the name of Mr. Baird, be discharged and the bill withdrawn; and that private members' notice of motion 4, standing in

the name of Mr. Baird, be deleted from the Orders and Notices paper.

The Speaker: Mr. Caplan has moved that the order for second reading of Bill 35 --

Interjection: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispense? Dispense.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Hon. David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal, Deputy Government House Leader): I seek unanimous consent to put forward a

motion without notice regarding private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Caplan has asked for unanimous consent to put forward a motion regarding private members' public

business. Agreed? Agreed.

Hon. Mr. Caplan: I move that, notwithstanding standing order 96(d), the following changes be made to the ballot list of private members'

public business: that Mr. Ruprecht and Mr. Lalonde exchange places in the order of precedence such that Mr. Ruprecht assumes ballot item 14 and Mr. Lalonde assumes ballot item 59; and that

notwithstanding standing order 96(g), notice be waived for ballot item 14.

The Speaker: Mr. Caplan has moved that, notwithstanding standing order 96(d), the following changes be made to the ballot list --

Interjection: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispense? Dispense.

Shall the motion carry? Carried.

ORAL QUESTIONS

KARLA HOMOLKA

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): My question is for the Premier. As I'm sure your Attorney General has advised you, the Quebec

Superior Court, in an alarming and disturbing decision, today lifted all conditions that had been placed upon Karla Homolka. This decision means, among other things, that Ms. Homolka can travel

freely and unmonitored to any community in Canada, including St. Catharines, the home of her victims. Premier, do you now regret the failure of your government to play an active role in Ms.

Homolka's appeal hearing?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Attorney General.

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): Last June, Ontario crown attorneys, acting as agents of the Quebec Attorney General, appeared before

the provincial court in Joliette. They made submissions, all of which were accepted by the court, and a recognizance order was entered. Those submissions and those rulings were then put before the

Quebec Superior Court. Obviously disappointed with the result, but the more than a year of intergovernmental legal collaboration that had taken place between Quebec and Ontario up until that date

will certainly continue. It is our view that this decision is appealable. Our officials are in constant contact with Quebec officials, and I will be speaking with the Quebec Attorney General later

today.

Mr. Runciman: Mr. Speaker, I wasn't talking about the Joliette hearing. We all know that the Attorney General was front and centre when Ms.

Homolka's release from prison was approaching, when all the cameras were turned on. But when her appeal was heard, he was missing in action. He dropped the ball. The reality is that this Attorney

General and his officials were once again outsmarted by Ms. Homolka and her lawyers. Ms. Homolka brought in an expert witness to testify that she posed no risk, and Ontario failed to counter.

Minister, how do you explain to the victims' families and all Ontarians your failure to pull out all stops to ensure the restrictions on Ms. Homolka remained

in place? How do you explain that failure?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: Well, I don't think anybody here can imagine what the victims' families go through any time the name Homolka comes up, let

alone when a hearing takes place. I spoke with the lawyer for the victims' families, Mr. Danson, today and indicated that, just as we have been in constant consultation with the victims' families

-- I met with them and our lawyers have been in constant discussions with Mr. Danson, who was present at the hearing in the spring and also at the appeal -- that will certainly continue and that we

will continue to do everything we can to put in place the restrictions that will protect them and the public as long as Homolka is in Canada.

Mr. Runciman: Mr. Speaker, the Attorney General can use all the words he wants to weasel out of his responsibilities and to justify his

failure, but it won't work with the people in St. Catharines or the people of Ontario. In the original hearing, Ontario crowns were sworn in as Quebec crowns. That didn't happen this time. Unlike

the killer, Ontario did not provide expert witness testimony to counter her so-called expert, who testified that she didn't pose a danger to the public. You also refused to fund the French and

Mahaffy families' attendance at the appeal hearing, and you forced their lawyer to pay his own way -- an abysmal record. The French and Mahaffy families are devastated by this decision. What are

you going to do now to ensure that this decision is appealed?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: As I indicated to the victims' families' lawyers today -- and have indicated already -- we are urging the Quebec Attorney

General to appeal. He has jurisdiction. If this were in Ontario, there is no question that we would be appealing.

The member is mistaken: Mr. Ramsay and other crown attorneys from Ontario were present at the appeal, were in constant contact and were advising the Quebec

crown attorneys throughout the entire appeal.

Mr. Runciman: I did not say that.

Hon. Mr. Bryant: Look, this is not over. It's not over in Quebec and it is certainly not over in the province of Ontario, Mr. Speaker. I can

assure you that if we receive any information that she plans on coming to Ontario, we will be going before Ontario courts to seek a recognizance order in the province of Ontario. In the meantime,

we are urging Quebec authorities to appeal this decision.

ENERGY CONTRACTS

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): My question is for the Minister of Energy. What exactly are your contingency plans in the

event that Calpine Corp. declares bankruptcy, as is being predicted by analysts, and pulls out of their contract to build a 1,005-megawatt facility, a natural gas plant in Sarnia that you say will

make up 11% of your loss by your irresponsible promise to close Ontario's coal-fired plants?

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): I thank the member for the question. I'd like to assure the member that the partner of Calpine

is Mitsui. I had a conversation with the president of Mitsui. He informs me that they are in the process of opening up their office in Toronto in order to follow through with their commitment on

the 1,000-megawatt proposal.

Mr. Yakabuski: I'm not sure that we find that reassuring. The former minister, when he announced the Greenfield Energy Centre, of which

Calpine is a partner, said, "The projects announced today represent a significant portion of our commitment to replace coal with cleaner sources of supply. In particular, the two projects near

Sarnia will be sufficient to replace most of the capacity at the Lambton coal-fired station."

Minister, Calpine's project alone accounts for more than 11% of your scheme to replace coal-fired power in our province. Now the project is in serious

jeopardy. In March 2001, Calpine's shares traded for $58; yesterday those same shares traded for 75 cents. Merrill Lynch analyst David Silverstein said yesterday that a bankruptcy filing is

"likely." Again, what is your backup plan to ensure that the lights stay on, given your poorly conceived plan to shut down Ontario's coal-fired stations?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: Again, Mr. Murakami, the president and CEO of Mitsui Canada, confirms that the change will not -- underline "not" --

affect the project. They have, in fact, their contingency plans within their agreement with Calpine. So again, I reassure the member that this is under the total and complete authority of Mitsui,

and we have every confidence in Mr. Murakami of Mitsui, which is the partner in Calpine.

Mr. Yakabuski: So one phone call and everything is all right in Liberal land again.

Minister, unfortunately your entire scheme to phase out coal-fired energy plants has been one bungle after another. First, you promised to close all plants by

2007, and then, in typical Liberal fashion, you changed that to 2009. Then you announced a series of RFPs for alternatives to coal. Only in August of this year it was announced that the

280-megawatt Greenfield North Power project in Mississauga will not proceed. The 570-megawatt Invenergy project in Sarnia was refused rezoning by St. Clair township in October. The city of Thunder

Bay is calling for an environmental assessment of the natural gas pipeline for the 310-megawatt Thunder Bay generating station. Now Calpine's 1,005 megawatts is in serious jeopardy.

Specifically, what is your plan -- not your phone call, but your plan -- to ensure that the lights stay on in Ontario under your coal-fired policy?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: Thank you very much for the question. One thing I can assure the member is that we will not flip-flop like you have. We

will in fact build, we will in fact maximize and we will in fact create. Maybe I should ask the member if they have changed their mind about the closure of coal, which was in their platform, and

have suddenly taken another perspective.

We are on target. We have put in place 9,000 megawatts. We have 2,300 that came in. We were going to build new generation -- which we have done. For the first

time, we have an 80-fold increase in wind capacity in this province. We are going to maximize our existing generation -- a new Beck tunnel, for example. We are going to maximize our transmission,

which we did with Manitoba. And we are going to create a culture of conservation, which nobody has looked at for the last 12 years.

PLANT CLOSURES

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Today your government's policy of driving electricity rates through

the roof killed another 700 jobs: 520 jobs at the Domtar paper mill in Cornwall and another 185 jobs at the Domtar paper mill in Ottawa. It's very clear that not only is your policy of driving

electricity rates through the roof destroying jobs, but your so-called forest industry competitiveness strategy is being ignored by the industry. Since you've announced it, three mills have shut

down. I urged you yesterday to announce that you are going to extend the Ontario Power Generation revenue cap for another two years so there would be some stability in electricity rates and they

wouldn't go even higher. Now, after another 700 jobs have been killed, will you finally do the right thing and make that announcement?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): First of all, let me say that I had the opportunity to speak with not

only the president and CEO of Domtar earlier today, but as well with the mayor of Cornwall. I had the opportunity to express my concerns to both, but especially to the mayor my desire and the

willingness on the part of our government to work with the mayor, the council and all the people of Cornwall to see what we can do to help strengthen that local economy.

Let me say as well that it's important to recognize that Domtar made it perfectly clear in their press release that the closure was driven by the high dollar.

Also, there were closures of two mills in Quebec, which the leader NDP will recognize as well, as well as another in BC. He would like to lay this at the feet of our government, specifically on the

issue of electricity policy, but I think, in fairness, that would be much less than accurate.

Mr. Hampton: Premier, I read the press release. The mill in British Columbia is going up for sale because they believe it will be sold. You

see, electricity rates there aren't through the roof. Similarly, the mills you talk about being closed in Quebec are not paper mills; they're two sawmills that are being consolidated because Quebec

doesn't have enough wood fibre that is suitable for sawmills.

The vice-president of operations who was at the closure spent five minutes telling the workers, "This is not your fault. You, the workers, have done

everything. It's the outrageous electricity prices in Ontario that are forcing the closure of this mill." That's what the vice-president said.

Premier, here's what has happened since you announced you had a policy to help the forest sector: Norampac has laid off 275 in Red Rock; Cascades has laid off

over 500 in Thunder Bay; Weyerhaeuser has laid off 40; now 185 in Ottawa and more than 500 in Cornwall. How many workers have to lose their jobs before you admit your policy --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The question has been asked. Premier?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I know the leader of the NDP tends to look at everything through electricity lenses. He would somehow surmise that

electricity prices in the province of Ontario have led to the closures of mills in New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Quebec and BC, as well as in other parts of North America and indeed throughout the

world. I beg to differ. There are some very serious challenges faced by the forestry sector in the international community -- of that, there is no doubt. We have put forward a $680-million strategy

to help support our sector here in Ontario. Part of that is a $150-million forest sector prosperity fund, and I'm pleased to learn that more than two dozen companies in Ontario have already made

applications to that particular fund so that working together we can put those mills on a more productive footing and help them transition into this new, highly competitive era.

Mr. Hampton: Premier, you ought to know about the Ottawa mill, because it has two paper machines on the Ottawa side of the border and one

paper machine on the Quebec side of the border. Here's the reality: The two machines on the Ontario side are being shut down. The machine on the Quebec side is going to run. You talk about

Cascades. Cascades in Thunder Bay shut down their mill at the same time they announced they were going to invest more money in their mill in Quebec. What's the difference? The difference is this:

$80 a megawatt for electricity in Ontario, $45 a megawatt for electricity in Quebec. That's why companies are investing in their mills in Quebec while they shut down in Ontario.

Union leaders and industry leaders believe you don't understand the seriousness of this. They're asking for a meeting with you. They have no confidence in your

forest sustainability competitiveness strategy and they have no confidence in your minister. They want a meeting with you before thousands more jobs are lost. Are you going to do that, Premier?

Will you meet with them?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Let me say that we remain very much committed to working with anybody in the forestry sector and doing everything we

possibly can to help put this industry, which is under siege in the international community, on a more sustainable, productive and efficient footing.

This is not easy work, but I'm pleased and proud to say that we have put together what I think is a very important package of $680 million. I'll further define

that for the members opposite. There's a $150-million forest sector prosperity fund. We've announced $28 million of annual -- that's ongoing -- support for the maintenance of primary access roads.

We're putting up $10 million for an annual inventory program. That's on top of a $350-million loan guarantee program.

My disappointment is that Domtar did not apply for any assistance so that we might have put in place a co-generation program that would have helped make their

operation more efficient. Having said that, we will continue to work with the good people of Cornwall.

ENERGY CONTRACTS

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Minister of Energy: Your leader says you're interested in working with these companies. What

you're doing is shutting them down.

But I want to ask you about your much-ballyhooed announcement about Calpine, that they were going to build a 1,000-megawatt natural gas plant in Sarnia.

Yesterday, Standard and Poors, the credit rating agency, cut Calpine's corporate credit rating by two notches to level CCC, eight levels below investment grade, after it was announced that the

chief executive officer and the chief financial officer were gone. Standard and Poors said, "The management strategy pursued by the prior CEO and CFO was to keep the company operating."

It sounds like Standard and Poors wants the company shut down. What does that do to your plans for lots of natural-gas-fired electricity, Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): I thank the member for the question. It's interesting that someone who indicates that, "We will

continue to live with the effects of the coal mistakes for decades to come. Some of us will die before our time, victims of coal-fired generated air pollution" -- that was Mr. Hampton in Public

Power; obviously not particularly interested in replacing coal-fired.

I have answered the question. I will answer it again. Mr. Maasaki Murakami, president and CEO of Mitsui Canada, confirms -- they are the partner with Calpine

-- that this change will not -- underline "not" -- affect this project. In fact, this project is going forward on schedule. I would be very happy, if this question is asked again, to repeat that

this change will not affect the project.

Mr. Hampton: I'm not surprised the Premier didn't want to answer the question.

I want to quote Standard and Poors again: "An unfavourable court decision about Calpine's ability to sell or monetize assets, however, worsens Calpine's

vulnerable financial position. This, compounded with uncertain prospects in the power markets, makes it unlikely the company will be able to meet its obligations with internal cash flow

generation."

Calpine is the energy giant here. Calpine is on the financial ropes. Calpine is likely going to be driven into bankruptcy any day now.

I want to ask the Premier again: What's your plan to keep the lights on when all of your natural gas plants -- or at least, so far, most of your natural gas

plants -- can't even get off the ground?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: Again I'm pleased to repeat that Mr. Murakami, the president and CEO of Mitsui Canada, is a partner in the Calpine

project. We have had reassurance from the gentleman that this does not affect the project and it will go forward.

I repeat that we do have a strategy and plan in place. We are going to build new generation, which we are doing. We are going to maximize our existing

generation and transmission lines, which we are doing. We are going to create a culture of conservation, which is happening in this province as we speak.

Those are the plans and the strategy that include the vision, which means that we will move forward to produce a safe, secure, reliable electricity and power

source for this province. That is our commitment, and that is what we are following through with. I have every confidence in Mitsui Canada. It is a very large international conglomerate with --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Final supplementary?

Mr. Hampton: Here's the situation: Calpine, one of your champions, is in trouble; two of your natural gas plants in Mississauga, supposedly to

be built by Eastern, are in trouble; and you keep announcing a natural gas plant somewhere in downtown Toronto, but it can't get off the ground. Meanwhile, the major industrial users say that your

electricity policy is killing 140,000 good-paying industrial jobs. You announce a forest sector competitiveness strategy, but after you announce it, company after company announces they're shutting

down, killing thousands of jobs, and leaving the province.

Industry leaders and union leaders are very concerned over what's happening. They see electricity rates going up, not down. They see more jobs being lost. They

see communities being decimated. Will you meet with union leaders and pulp and paper industry leaders, Premier, or are you going to try to pretend there's no problem here?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: I'd like to give a quote: "This is an historic event and good news in terms of Ontario's energy needs, good news for the

environment as higher efficiency and cleaner fuels improve air quality, good news for ratepayers through improved reliability and efficiencies in our economy -- and of course good news for

Ontario's power industry."

Interjection: Who said that?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: The president of the Association of Power Producers of Ontario said that. In fact, they do support our initiatives of a

balanced approach as we move forward.

As for the other question, we are meeting with the Power Workers' Union, and there's no problem meeting with them. I have that scheduled.

MUNICIPAL TAXATION

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): A question to the Premier: I want to direct to you today's Toronto Sun headline entitled, "A Fib By Any Other

Name." The

article refers to your Bill 37, which effectively allows new municipal taxes on everything from theatre tickets to drivers' registrations. This is the latest on a long, sorry list of

broken Dalton McGuinty promises. You've already broken your promises: You're running multi-year deficits, you've already levelled a punishing new health tax on working families and now there's a

new regime of taxes across the province of Ontario. Premier, does anybody give a tinker's damn about taxpayers on your side of the House?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I would encourage the member opposite to sit down or at least phone his

leader, because he may be interested in the position that he's taken on this particular issue with respect to putting the city of Toronto on a stronger financial footing.

To quote Mr. Tory, who said, on May 7 last year, "We have to re-examine completely the relationship between the municipal and provincial government to give

city governments more latitude to raise some of their own revenue if they choose to do so." He went on to say, "They will then be accountable for whatever they choose to do -- to fund some things

that may be priorities for these cities. Right now they have to go and ask for permission to do everything and I don't think that's right."

I would encourage the member opposite to sit down and work this through with his leader.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): My question is to the Premier too. Last Tuesday, when your minister introduced the bill, the no respect for

taxpayers act, I stated that this bill, if passed, would be a groundbreaking demonstration of how the McGuinty Liberal government is committed to tax and spend and will now ask the municipalities

to help him do it.

My question is very simple: Can you tell the taxpayers of this province what types of new taxes you are going to allow them to foist upon their constituents

without being asked? For example, are taxpayers going to be subjected to a new sales tax, a poll tax or an income tax? Premier, is this new increase in taxes that municipalities can collect for the

province going to include municipalities all across the province, as the title of the bill suggests, or is it just going to be foisted upon the citizens of Toronto?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I'll tell you what inspires and motivates the line of questioning the party opposite is pursuing at this point in time. The

long and the short of it is that they don't believe they can trust the people who live in Ontario municipalities and that they cannot trust their duly elected officials. What we intend to do on

this side of the House is turn this around and respect Ontario municipalities and give them the credence they are due. They sow division; they sow discord. We believe the best way to make this

province work is to have people working together, and that's why we're going to recognize the credit and the respect that is due to Ontario municipalities.

WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): To the Attorney General: It was your promises of safety for Todd Petahtegoose, his wife and child in the

witness protection program that persuaded Mr. Petahtegoose to give evidence with respect to 10 gangster, biker and gangland murders in this province, and to testify for the crown against a senior

Satan's Choice member in a murder trial. Once he did what he did, you're dropping him like a hot potato. As of today, not only has he not received the new identification, the new driver's licence,

the new legal names and the new social insurance numbers, but he's being evicted from the accommodations that have been provided for him. As of midnight, he, his wife and 13-year-old daughter are

on the street with their possessions in brown cardboard boxes.

Minister, why didn't you keep your promise to Todd Petahtegoose, and why won't you and your staff sit down with his lawyer, who is prepared to negotiate an

interim resolution of this matter with you?

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): There is ongoing civil litigation with respect to this very matter in which the plaintiffs are using

pseudonyms. That ended yesterday when the member opposite decided to identify the individual in this House and identify where he's located right now.

This is before the courts right now. The plaintiff is taking a position. We, I, deny the allegations. We are taking a different position in the event that

counsel are to discuss some kind of an alternative. That is for that person's lawyer, and he is represented; he has a lawyer. That lawyer can speak with officials in the ministry. But again I say,

it's before the courts. We deny the allegations. I'm not going to argue the case in this Legislature. I'm going to let the courts decide.

Mr. Kormos: Minister, the bikers and the gangsters know who Todd Petahtegoose is. He's the one who stood up in court and testified against

them. That's why he needs a new identity; that's why he needs a new driver's licence; that's why he needs support; that's why he needs accommodation for himself, his wife and his child. You have

encouraged witnesses to the scores of gangster and gangland shootings and slayings across Toronto over the course of the last six months to come forward, even if they're afraid, because you

promised them that you would protect them under the Ontario witness protection program.

How does your abandonment of Todd Petahtegoose, his wife and his 13-year-old daughter, putting them out on the street as sitting ducks tonight, how does your

abandonment of Mr. Petahtegoose and his family instil any confidence in your witness protection program by any of those witnesses who might otherwise have come forward with respect to those scores

of murders these last six months?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: I think it is absolutely outrageous that the member would suggest we ought not to have total confidence in the witness

protection program. We are constantly trying to encourage citizens to come forward and participate in criminal investigations, whether they be involving gangs or otherwise. I have total confidence

that the police officers and the Ministry of Attorney General officials who assist protected witnesses appreciate very well the difficult situations these witnesses find themselves in and make

every effort to treat them fairly. Contrary to what this member is saying, and contrary to what this member is advocating, I urge people to come forward and participate in the justice system.

The witness protection program in the province of Ontario has got more experience and is more developed than any other witness protection program in the

country, and I would encourage people to participate in it if they feel that is appropriate. I completely reject the allegations made by the member opposite.

TRADITIONAL CHINESE MEDICINE

Mr. Tony C. Wong (Markham): My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Traditional Chinese medicine is something that is

important not only to me, personally, but it is important to my community and to Ontarians across the province. In March, you asked my colleagues Minister Mike Colle, Peter Fonseca, Richard Patten

and I to consult with Ontarians on how to best regulate both TCM and acupuncture. I can tell you that we heard from hundreds of Ontarians, including a wide array of health care practitioners and

members of the public. Our findings were presented to you in our report this summer, and I know that you have been working diligently to review our recommendations and make decisions on this

matter.

Minister, I have been asked what stage the government is at in its progress toward regulating TCM and acupuncture, and whether the government is still

committed to introducing this legislation. Could you advise me on whether we will still be able to regulate TCM and acupuncture?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Indeed, we will. The honourable member, alongside colleagues in our caucus --

the members from Ottawa Centre, Eglinton-Lawrence and Mississauga East -- as was stated in the question, spent quite a lot of time taking submissions from a variety of individuals.

In the election campaign, we committed to regulating traditional Chinese medicine. We know that it's a therapy that hundreds of thousands of people are taking

advantage of; I amongst them, more recently. I want to say to the honourable member that we think it's important to fulfill the commitment to regulate it and to give them their own self-regulating

college. It is important that this profession, which is enjoyed by so many people, is one where we can offer a very high standard that means that the patients will be very safe. This legislation

will be forthcoming before Christmas.

Mr. Wong: Minister, I thank you for this assurance. As you know, there are so many Ontarians that benefit from the use of traditional Chinese

medicine and acupuncture. These forms of medicine have been practised for thousands of years, and have proven to be effective in keeping people healthy and for treating various ailments. I'm proud

that this government is delivering on ensuring that these practices are regulated, that Ontarians will be able to benefit from these treatments and will be able to have full confidence in their

safety.

Minister, are we going to be having a college for traditional Chinese medicine, and why is that important?

Interjections.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I'm going to leave that aside. We think the regulation of traditional Chinese medicine is important for the protection of

Ontarians. We want to ensure, of course, that as hundreds of thousands of people are taking advantage of the services, they can be assured that those practitioners have been appropriately

qualified. Accordingly, it's important to have a college; that's the tradition in the province of Ontario with self-regulation. We're going to build on that. In this instance, we've got good

experience with that here in the province of Ontario.

This will be an energetic process; many people will be involved. It will take some time to build up the capacities of this college, but we've seen a good

degree of willingness on the part of TCM practitioners and interested patients to see this happen. Because of the good work that's been done by these caucus colleagues, we have a good plan to move

forward with. As I said, I'm very excited to be able to bring legislation to this House before we rise for Christmas.

HEALTH CARE

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): My question is for the Premier. Recently, the Canadian Institutes of Health Research released a

series of reports showing that there is evidence for governments to set wait time benchmarks in three of the five priority areas: cancer, sight restoration and joint replacements. I ask you today:

Are you going to keep your promise and set and announce the wait time benchmarks in these three areas by December 31, 2005?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Minister of Health.

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I'm happy to report progress [ Failure of the sound system. ] looking

forward to an opportunity in the time between now and December 31 to gather with other colleagues of ours from across the country. The role that we've played as co-chair of the FPT has allowed us

to make quite a lot of progress, and jurisdictions across the country have been working very hard. Each of them is reporting some progress toward reducing wait times. Accordingly, directly to the

honourable member, I can say yes, we will fulfill the commitments that we made in keeping with the first ministers' accord and the December 31 timeline.

Mrs. Witmer: If I heard you correctly, you're saying that you are going to set and announce those wait time benchmarks by the end of this

year.

I would ask you about your commitment to Fabry's patients and their families. They have been begging you for more than two years for treatment for Fabry's. You

made a commitment more than a month ago now that there was going to be a start to time-limited research trials for treatment. However, right away, after this, on Silverman Helps on Citytv on

October 26, you started to backtrack and said the program would start in weeks or short months. I ask you today, Minister, will you live up to your promise to the Fabry's patients and tell us that

those clinical trials are going to start within weeks or days?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: There's an interesting relationship between the supplementary question and the original question. But I do want to say

Mrs. Witmer: Wait times.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Oh, I see. Very interesting.

I do want to say to the honourable member, on the issue of Fabry's, that she well knows the efforts I led on behalf of PT jurisdictions to encourage federal

government participation in a research program that would extend the product on a pan-Canadian basis to all patients. Accordingly, the assurances that the honourable member seeks from me in terms

of weeks or months are not ones that I'm easily in a position to offer, because there are other jurisdictions involved in this. However, I will get back to the honourable member with a more

detailed report.

When I asked about this about four days ago, I was told that very strong progress was being made between federal and Quebec officials, Quebec being the lead

for PT jurisdictions on the research element of the plan. Of course, moving forward would make the product available to those with Fabry's, but it's critically important that we capture appropriate

data to determine the benefits that may be accruing to those patients. I agree that we need to move as quickly as we can, and I'll continue to put pressure on to make sure that happens.

ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. You promised to bring a new approach to aboriginal affairs in

Ontario. You promised to consult with aboriginal leadership whenever government actions might adversely affect their treaty rights. You promised to "build a better future for aboriginal children

and youth" in partnership with aboriginal people. Those are your promises. My question is this: Why is your government attempting to pass Bill 210 through the Legislature without any of the

consultations that have been repeatedly demanded by First Nations leadership in this province?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Mary Anne V. Chambers (Minister of Children and Youth Services): I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to correct [ Failure of

sound system. ] several meetings with aboriginal communities. We'll have another one today, and there are more scheduled.

Mr. Hampton: Maybe the Premier needs to inform his minister that holding a meeting with aboriginal people is not a consultation. The courts of

Canada say that is not a consultation.

Here's a resolution of the Chiefs of Ontario dated November 11, 2004. They insist on a First Nations consultation process. Here are the Chiefs of Ontario in

conference in June 2005, demanding a consultation process. I was speaking with aboriginal leadership this morning. They insist that no consultation process has taken place. So I'm going to ask the

Premier: Will you suspend any of your attempts to pass Bill 210 until you have undertaken a consultation process with First Nations leadership on Bill 210?

Hon. Mrs. Chambers: Once again, the member opposite is actually not speaking with accuracy. On November 8, for example, I spent five hours in

meetings with some 20 or so people, and they were in fact encouraged by my willingness to listen to their issues and to work with them. I am totally committed to listening to First Nations

communities. Their children are as important as every other child in this province.

ENERGY CONSERVATION

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I have a question for the Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal. When I held my energy forum in Davenport,

I was quite surprised to find that most of the citizens are already conserving energy. For instance, they're using light bulbs that are fluorescent and programmed thermostats. They are also using

energy in off-peak times whenever possible.

When these discussions come up, I often get asked what the government itself is doing to reduce energy usage. I know we are committed to reducing the amount of

energy the government is using because we understand the environmental and economic benefits of conservation. Minister, what is this government doing to conserve energy?

Hon. David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal, Deputy Government House Leader): I want to thank the member for the question.

Just last Thursday, I introduced a proposed growth plan for the greater Golden Horseshoe. That plan encourages municipalities to develop energy conservation strategies for municipally owned

buildings, to identify potential sites for renewable energy generation, to develop policies for procuring renewable energy, and to create public education programs that work with communities and

residents to reduce energy consumption.

Beyond that, our government is taking other key initiatives. One such initiative is to require the LEED silver rating on key infrastructure projects. LEED,

just for the information of all the members, is Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design. It sets standards for buildings to use less water, less power and less heat; in essence, creating

smart buildings that will actively change our energy consumption. We have called for the silver standard in several projects, including the Durham consolidated courthouse and the Archives of

Ontario. There are other initiatives, and I hope to get to those in the supplementary.

Mr. Ruprecht: One of the projects I hear quite often mentioned is the Enwave deep lake water cooling project. I understand it is

price-competitive, clean and sustainable. Could you explain to this House and to the people of Ontario the benefits of this world-class project that I hear so much about?

Hon. Mr. Caplan: In fact, this was one of the issues I did want to bring to the attention of the House. Under the leadership of my colleague

the Minister of Government Services, Gerry Phillips, we have entered into an agreement with Enwave to bring a deep lake water cooling system -- it draws water from 83 metres below the surface of

Lake Ontario. The system is part of an integrated district cooling system that covers the city of Toronto's financial district. District cooling was introduced in 1997 with the opening of Enwave's

Simcoe Street cooling plant.

Our government's real estate service provider, the Ontario Realty Corp., has engaged Enwave to use its deep lake water cooling system for government buildings

right here in the precinct of Queen's Park. By installing deep lake water cooling at Queen's Park, the government will continue to show this kind of leadership, as this project provides tremendous

long-term energy, environmental and economic benefits. By introducing deep lake water cooling at Queen's Park, 9.1 million kilowatt hours --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. New question.

PLANT CLOSURES

Mr. Ted Chudleigh (Halton): That was a great project that we initiated back in our government days.

My question is for the Premier. Premier, it continues: 3,900 jobs at General Motors -- with Ford and Chrysler yet to ring in -- lost to the people of Ontario;

ABB in Guelph, 280 jobs gone; Cascades in Thunder Bay, 370 jobs; La-Z-Boy in Kitchener-Waterloo, 413 jobs.

Interjections.

Mr. Chudleigh: Over 30 companies in Ontario have closed down, Premier, in the last -- this is very amusing to the Minister of Natural

Resources. Domtar a year ago had 910 employees. Today, they're closing; Ottawa, 185 employees gone. Humpty Dumpty in Brampton, 188 jobs: closed, gone to Montreal. Saint Gobain Advanced Ceramics in

Brantford: gone, closed down.

What are you doing, Premier? It's all very well to make telephone calls, but it doesn't get the job done. Liberal Ontario is in trouble. What are you doing

about it?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The Minister of Economic Development and Trade.

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I want to cite for the member the 214,000 new jobs that have been created

by this great Ontario economy and the entrepreneurs and the people who work in this province. I want to cite something that's rather interesting: In the first two years of this government's

mandate, as compared to the first two years of that government's mandate, seven out of eight jobs created were full-time jobs. During the first two years of your government's mandate, only five out

of eight jobs created were full-time jobs. There is a jobs economy out there that is creating real jobs for people, and that's a lot more than you can say for the government that you were a part

of.

Mr. Chudleigh: I don't think that answer is going to bring much relief to the tens of thousands of people in Ontario who, coming into the

Christmas period, are looking at not having a job next year. The only fortunate thing you had was that your government followed our government. You didn't follow the NDP, who lost 60,000 jobs over

their term of government.

The manufacturing industries and the forestry sector of this province are disintegrating under your watch. Their downfall will be your legacy. I ask you again:

What plans does your government have to stop the bleeding in the manufacturing sector and the forestry sector of this once great province of Ontario?

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: It's rather interesting. I want to give you a quote from November 27, 2005: "From a provincial point of view, I think this

province is as competitive as we can possibly be in all aspects, whether it be in infrastructure or whether it be in tax jurisdictions." Who said that? None other than Ted Chudleigh on Focus

Ontario. This province is indeed competitive. We are indeed investing in infrastructure, with $30 billion announced for infrastructure over the next five years. We are becoming far more

competitive. He was right when he said that.

NORTHERN ONTARIO HERITAGE FUND

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): My question is to the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. Earlier today, my staff had a chance

to visit the NOHFC Web site. They noted that according to the Web site, when you total it all up, the Northern Ontario Heritage Fund Corp. has allocated in grants and loans a total of $85.5 million

over the last two years. That's rather interesting. What we find rather interesting is that on November 1, you stood in this House and said that as of that date, NOHFC had spent $117.3 million.

Minister, can you tell me where the $31.8 million went, the difference between what you announced and what's on your Web site?

Hon. Rick Bartolucci (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I would be more than happy to tell the member and everyone in Ontario where

the money went: It went into job creation in northern Ontario. There may be a necessity to update the Web site, but there is no reason for anyone to question that $117 million has been invested in

more than 440 projects, which has leveraged $397 million and created 3,721 jobs. We are very proud of the refocused northern Ontario heritage fund.

Mr. Bisson: That's rather interesting, because when we talked to the staff at the NOHFC, they said that every penny they put out the door is

listed on that Web site, and when you total up what's on Web site, there's a difference of $31 million from what you announced in the House. So I've got a simple question: Are you prepared to table

in this House all the expenditures of the NOHFC in order to reconcile where the $31.8 million went?

Hon. Mr. Bartolucci: There's absolutely no question that I am convinced that the northern Ontario heritage fund has spent $117 million on job

creation in northern Ontario. That has resulted in the creation of 3,721 jobs and has leveraged in excess of $390 million. The fact of the matter is, the refocused northern Ontario heritage fund is

working and is creating jobs in northern Ontario at a record-setting pace.

IMMIGRATION POLICY

Mrs. Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): My question is to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Minister, the largest employer in my

riding, Linamar, reports that they face a shortage of skilled tradespeople in the auto parts sector, yet when they locate candidates from other countries, they have trouble getting immigration

permits into Canada.

You recently signed the historic Canada-Ontario immigration agreement, which will quadruple funding for newcomers in Ontario -- an increase of $920 million. In

the agreement, there is a specific

section about Ontario developing a provincial nominee program, for the first time ever. I'd like to know: How will this provincial nominee program work, and how

will it benefit my riding of Guelph-Wellington?

Hon. Mike Colle (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): Thank you very much to the member from Guelph-Wellington for the question. There

has been a lot of discussion about this breakthrough agreement and the fact that, for the first time ever, this province has signed an immigration agreement which gives the people of Ontario $920

million over five years. But another significant aspect of that agreement is that, for the first time, we're going to be full partners with the federal government in determining some immigration

policies. One of the things we're going to be able to do is put in a provincial nominee program, which allows us, as a province, to select certain specific skilled-labour-shortage areas where we

can match who's coming into the country and where they can go and find jobs, like the great city of Guelph, and help grow the economy and help industry in Guelph.

Mrs. Sandals: That's great news for my riding of Guelph-Wellington. Other provinces like Manitoba have had a provincial nominee program for

some time. In fact, Quebec has had total control over its immigration selections. These other provinces already have the ability to nominate individuals wishing to make that province their new

home, and have successfully used these programs to address specific labour market shortages.

Minister, what does it mean for Ontario now that we too will have a provincial nominee program? Can the auto industry in my riding expect similar success?

Hon. Mr. Colle: There are some very specific shortfalls in different parts of Ontario. This agreement will allow us to target certain groups

of highly skilled immigrants who are very willing to come to Canada. There are also willing employers who have said that they can't expand their businesses because they don't have certain skilled

employees. We will be able to do now what Manitoba has been doing for a decade, what Quebec has been doing for 20 years. This agreement, this historic, never-done-before agreement, brings fairness

to Ontario, makes us full partners at the immigration table and makes us target special needs to help Ontario communities like Sudbury, like Cornwall, like Guelph. This is great news for increasing

our economy and targeting the skills shortages which exist in this province. It also brings these hard-working, willing immigrants into Ontario.

PHYSIOTHERAPY SERVICES

Mr. Cameron Jackson (Burlington): I'd like to ask the Premier a question. In your first budget you cut OHIP coverage for physiotherapy in this

province. Last March, under immense pressure, you agreed to provide physiotherapy services for seniors in long-term-care facilities who were aged 65 or older. You announced as well that you were

going to cut the amount of service from 150 treatments to 100. At the time, there was a promise made by your Minister of Health and his ministry that they would create a mechanism to allow for

those seniors and the most severely disabled in this province to have services above the 100 threshold.

My question is this: Why is it that on August 17, September 14, October 5 and again in November, your government promised these seniors that they would have a

mechanism in place and that promise has been broken each and every time? Why has your Ministry of Health turned its back on these seniors?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Minister of Health.

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): It's interesting to always get questions about health care from a party that

has on record a commitment to cut health care by $2.4 billion, not to mention the fact that with respect to physiotherapy and the much-loved status quo that is the hallmark of that party, when we

came to office, what we discovered was that some seniors in long-term-care homes were receiving hundreds and hundreds of physiotherapy treatments a year and many none. Accordingly, we decided that

in an environment where our resources do have limitations, it was appropriate to move forward on an equitable basis, and that's what we've done. So if you are a senior in a long-term-care home in

the province of Ontario, your access to physiotherapy has been enhanced quite greatly.

With respect to the exemption for those who have more pressing medical needs, I will be happy to address that specifically in the supplementary.

Mr. Jackson: This is kind of rich coming from a member of a political party -- between David Peterson's five years and Bob Rae's five years,

the debt in this province went up by $65 billion and not one net new long-term-care bed was built under both of your governments' watches. So you don't need to lecture us about our commitment; we

built 20,000 long-term-care beds.

Premier, your government is not only cutting 150 treatments to 100; as of April 1, you are cutting it further to 50. So how can your Minister of Health stand

in this House and suggest to seniors that he is enhancing services when he is the biggest health cutter for seniors this province has ever seen?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Here is the Tory record on health care: hospitals, cut $557 million in two fiscal years; OHIP, cut $80 million, 1998-99;

ODB, cut $34.1 million; introduced the co-pay for seniors; community and public health, cut $136 million; long-term care, 1996-97, cut $23. 5 million; closed 26 hospitals, 10,000 hospital beds;

laid off 6,000 nurses.

With respect to the medical exemption, as promised in a November 24 bulletin that went out to designated clinics, that exemption program for those with medical

necessity will be in place on December 1 this year. That is tomorrow.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Stop the clock. We'll wait. I would like to be able to hear the member for Trinity-Spadina. Order.

VIOLENT CRIME

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): My question is to the Premier. Researchers at the University of Toronto recently asked local youth

gang members why they join gangs, and here's what one 23-year-old gang member had to say: "It's like the only jobs they got for poor black people is like McDonald's or Wendy's or some other [BS]

like that. Low pay, low respect. You basically just a slave, just a punk, while some fat owner gets rich. I'm not going down like that."

You talk about being tough on the causes of crime, but quite frankly, we don't see any evidence of it. You talk about results. How would you expect me and our

communities to judge you on your results thus far?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): First of all, the member raises a serious issue, and he should understand

where we are coming from on this side of the House. I think it all has to do fundamentally with ensuring that young people have every educational and training opportunity they can possibly get

their hands on. So far, we have $1.9 billion in new investments in education since taking office, including hiring 4,300 new teachers, all kinds of new programs, new training opportunities for

teachers and the like. We are also bringing in student success programs, one element of which is requiring that young people continue to learn until the age of 18.

Beyond that, we are investing $6.2 billion, an unprecedented level of investment and commitment, in post-secondary education which is going to provide more

training opportunities, more opportunities in our colleges, more opportunities in our universities, and $1.5 billion of that new $6.2 billion is dedicated to new student assistance programs.

VISITOR

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I would like to bring the members' attention to a guest we have in the members' west gallery. Helen

Johns, who represented Huron and then Huron-Bruce in the 36th and 37th Parliaments, is with us.

PETITIONS

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): This is a petition to save Rideau Regional Centre, a home for people with developmental

disabilities.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Stop the clock. Could members who are leaving please exit quietly. I would like to be able to hear the

member for Lanark-Carleton. Order. That's why we have lobbies.

The member for Lanark-Carleton, with my apologies.

Mr. Sterling: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I know you respect the right of individuals to read petitions in this House.

This is a petition about saving Rideau Regional Centre. It's a home to people with severe developmental disabilities.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty and his Liberal government were elected based on their promise to rebuild public services in Ontario;

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services has announced plans to close Rideau Regional Centre, home to people with developmental disabilities,

many of whom have multiple diagnoses and severe problems that cannot be met in the community;

"Whereas closing Rideau Regional Centre will have a devastating impact on residents with developmental disabilities, their families, the developmental services

sector and the economies of the local communities;

"Whereas Ontario could use the professional staff and facilities of Rideau Regional Centre to extend specialized services, support and professional training to

many more clients who live in the community, in partnership with families and community agencies;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the government to keep the Rideau Regional Centre open as a home for

people with developmental disabilities and to maintain it as a `centre of excellence' to provide specialized services and support to Ontarians with developmental needs, no matter where they

live."

I've signed that, and it is signed by over 100 residents of Ontario.

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I am sending that to the Clerk's table with page Nadia, and I'm affixing my signature in support.

CANCER TREATMENT

Mrs. Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas we are asking that access to Velcade treatment be made available in Ontario. Ontario is the only province in Canada not currently making funding

available for this drug, even though approximately 40% of people diagnosed with multiple myeloma in Canada are from Ontario;

"We, the undersigned" -- I have over 1,200 signatures -- "petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To provide immediate access to Velcade, while the review process continues, so that this treatment is available to patients in Ontario as it is in every other

province of Canada."

I affix my signature to this petition.

DIABETES TREATMENT

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I have around 5,000 signatures here from my friend Paul Beckwith supporting insulin pump legislation. It

reads:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We are suggesting that all diabetic supplies as prescribed by an endocrinologist or medical doctor be covered under the Ontario health insurance plan.

"Diabetes costs Canadian taxpayers $13 billion a year and increasing! It is the leading cause of death and hospitalization in Canada. Many people with diabetes

cannot afford the ongoing expense of managing the disease. They cut corners to save money. They rip test strips in half, cut down on the number of times they test their blood and even reuse lancets

and needles. These cost-saving measures often have tumultuous and disastrous health consequences.

"Persons with diabetes need and deserve financial assistance to cope with the escalating cost of managing diabetes. We think it is in all Ontario's and the

government's best interest to support diabetics with the supplies that each individual needs to obtain optimum glucose control. Good blood glucose control reduces or eliminates kidney failure by

50%, blindness by 76%, nerve damage by 60%, cardiac disease by 35% and even amputations. Just think of how many dollars can be saved by the Ministry of Health if diabetics had a chance to gain

optimum glucose control."

I'm very pleased to sign my name to this petition.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Tim Peterson (Mississauga South): I'm happy to present a petition to the House presented to me by Keith Tansley and Mike Pawelchuk of

Community Living Mississauga:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

This petition is signed by over 600 residents of Peel.

Mr. Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I have signed this also.

DIABETES TREATMENT

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to introduce this petition:

"To have insulin pumps, the supplies required to maintain them and glucose test strips covered by the Ontario health insurance plan for diabetic Ontarians.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas diabetics can achieve optimal glucose control when using the insulin pump to infuse insulin around the clock; and

"Whereas diabetes is the leading cause of death and hospitalization in Canada. It costs Canadians $13 billion a year and it is on the rise and many people with

diabetes cannot afford the ongoing expense of managing diabetes; they need and deserve financial assistance to cope with the escalating costs as well as equal opportunity in caring for their

disease; and

"Whereas good blood glucose controls, reduces or eliminates kidney failure by 50%, blindness by 76%, nerve damage by 60%, cardiac disease by 35% and even

amputations, millions of dollars could be saved by the Ministry of Health if diabetics had a chance to gain optimum glucose control;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, in support of Bill 15, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to amend the Health Insurance Act to include the provision

of insulin pumps, the supplies required to maintain them and glucose test strips for all diabetics."

I am pleased to support this by signing the petition.

AUTISM TREATMENT

Mrs. Julia Munro (York North): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas children with autism who have reached the age of six years are no longer being discharged from their preschool autism program; and

"Whereas these children should be getting the best special education possible in the form of applied behaviour analysis (ABA) within the school system; and

"Whereas there are approximately 700 preschool children with autism across Ontario who are required to wait indefinitely for placement in the program, and

there are also countless school-age children that are not receiving the support they require in the school system; and

"Whereas this situation has an impact on the families, extended families and friends of all of these children; and

"Whereas, as stated on the Web site for the Ministry of Children and Youth Services, `IBI can make a significant difference in the life of a child with autism.

Its objective is to decrease the frequency of challenging behaviours, build social skills and promote language development';

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to fund the treatment of IBI for all preschool children awaiting services. We also petition

the Legislature of Ontario to fund an educational program in the form of ABA in the school system."

As I am in agreement with this, I affix my signature and give it to Helen to deliver.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): This is an additional petition to the ones I've tabled with the Legislature already, and I fully support it.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are deprived

of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I sign this petition and support my local community for this particular purpose, and I give it to Richard.

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas many volunteer fire departments in Ontario are strengthened by the service of double-hatter firefighters who work as professional, full-time

firefighters and also serve as volunteer firefighters on their free time and in their home communities; and

"Whereas the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association has declared their intent to `phase out' these double-hatter firefighters; and

"Whereas double-hatter firefighters are being threatened by the union leadership and forced to resign as volunteer firefighters or face losing their full-time

jobs, and this is weakening volunteer fire departments in Ontario; and

"Whereas Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott has introduced Bill 52, the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act, that would uphold the right to

volunteer and solve this problem concerning public safety in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial government express public support for MPP Ted Arnott's Bill 52 and willingness to pass it into law or introduce similar legislation that

protects the right of firefighters to volunteer in their home communities on their own free time."

I've affixed my signature as well.

MANDATORY RETIREMENT

Mr. Mario Sergio (York West): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas existing legislation enforcing mandatory retirement is discriminatory; and

"Whereas it is the basic human right of Ontario citizens over the age of 65 to earn a living and contribute to society; and

"Whereas the provinces of Alberta, Manitoba, Prince Edward Island, Quebec, Yukon and the Northwest Territories have also abolished mandatory retirement in

various forms; and

"Whereas ending mandatory retirement is a viable means of boosting the Ontario labour force and accommodating the growing need for skilled workers;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The Ontario government should act by abolishing mandatory retirement in the province of Ontario. This is best achieved by passing Bill 211,

An Act to amend

the Human Rights Code and certain other Acts to end mandatory retirement."

I concur with the petitioners, and I will affix my signature to it.

HIGHWAY 26

Mr. Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the redevelopment of Highway 26 was approved by MPP Jim Wilson and the previous PC government in 1999; and

"Whereas a number of horrific fatalities and accidents have occurred on the old stretch of Highway 26; and

"Whereas the redevelopment of Highway 26 is critical to economic development and job creation in Simcoe-Grey;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Liberal government stop the delay of the Highway 26 redevelopment and act immediately to ensure that the project is finished on schedule, to improve

safety for area residents and provide economic development opportunities and job creation in Simcoe-Grey."

Of course, I agree with this petition.

DIABETES TREATMENT

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We are suggesting that all diabetic supplies as prescribed by an endocrinologist or medical doctor be covered under the Ontario health insurance plan.

"Diabetes costs Canadian taxpayers $13 billion per year and increasing! It is the leading cause of death and hospitalization in Canada. Many people with

diabetes cannot afford the ongoing expense of managing the disease. They cut corners to save money. They rip test strips in half, cut down on the number of times they test their blood and even

reuse lancets and needles. These cost-saving measures often have tumultuous and disastrous health consequences. Persons with diabetes need and deserve financial assistance to cope with the

escalating cost of managing diabetes.

"We think it is in all Ontario's and the government's best interest to support diabetics with the supplies that each individual needs to obtain optimum glucose

control. Good blood glucose control reduces or eliminates kidney failure by 50%, blindness by 76%, nerve damage by 60%, cardiac disease by 35% and even amputations. Just think of how many dollars

can be saved by the Ministry of Health if diabetics had a chance to gain optimum glucose control."

I will affix my name to this petition.

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I feel so privileged today. Anyway, I have a petition here to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It

reads as follows:

"Whereas the average price of gasoline has skyrocketed" to the highest prices at the pumps in Ontario's history;

"Whereas high gas prices are causing great hardship for ordinary motorists, small business owners and industry;

"Whereas the McGuinty Liberals promised to take action to keep gas prices low;

"Whereas the McGuinty Liberals have broken that promise and have done nothing to help ordinary families getting hosed at the pumps;

"I petition the Ontario government to immediately pass Bill 74, the Keep Your Promises at the Pump Act, which would make the Liberals keep their promise to

freeze gas prices for 90 days, and Bill 93, the Keep Your Promise on the Gas Price Watchdog Act, which would force the Liberals to keep their promises to establish a gas price watchdog to protect

consumers from price gouging."

I've signed that petition.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ENERGY CONSERVATION RESPONSIBILITY ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA RESPONSABILITÉ

EN MATIÈRE DE CONSERVATION

DE L'ÉNERGIE

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 22, 2005, on the motion for second reading of Bill 21,

An Act to enact the Energy Conservation Leadership Act, 2005

and to amend the Electricity Act, 1998, the Ontario Energy Board Act, 1998 and the Conservation Authorities Act / Projet de loi 21, Loi édictant la Loi de 2005 sur le leadership en

matière de conservation de l'énergie et apportant des modifications à la Loi de 1998 sur l'électricité, à la Loi de 1998 sur la Commission de l'énergie de

l'Ontario et à la

Loi sur les offices de protection de la nature.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Michael Prue): On the last occasion, we heard the speech of the member for Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant. It is now time for

questions and comments.

Interjection: He's still got five minutes.

The Acting Speaker: No, I do not believe so. Was there time left? No.

Questions and comments?

Mr. Ted Chudleigh (Halton): Of course, the member from Haldimand-Norfolk spoke eloquently about this particular bill and brought it to the

attention of the House that smart meters perhaps aren't the smartest thing in the world we could do. Smart meters may not be smart. In fact, to start with, smart meters are going to cost the

average householder $8 or $10 a month. We don't know what that amount might be. It might be as high as $15 a month, and that's $15 a month for as long as you pay an electrical bill. That could

possibly be for the rest of your life; you're going to be paying and paying and paying.

People in Ontario are pretty much creatures of habit. They go to work in the morning. They get up at a certain time and they come home at a certain time. They

have their dinner at a certain time, and when they have some free time in the evening, they do their laundry. These people, these creatures of habit, the wonderful people of Ontario who go to work,

obey the law and pay their taxes, are not going to change their habits all that much. These people are the backbone of Ontario. These are good, decent, hard-working people and they're not going to

change their habits all that much. And what's going to happen to them with the smart meter? When a smart meter comes in and they don't change their habits, they're going to pay more for

electricity. They're going to pay a lot more for electricity.

Mr. Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre): If they're smart, they'll read it.

Mr. Chudleigh: And the member says if they're smart, they'll change.

Interjection: No, "read it."

Mr. Chudleigh: Well, I don't know. Perhaps the member misses the point that people of Ontario who work hard, obey the law and pay their taxes

should not be abused by having to pay extra for the privilege of having electricity in their homes and not changing their lives to suit the government of the day. I think the government of the day

will have a rude awakening when those people have a chance to --

The Acting Speaker: Questions and comments?

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I say to everyone watching, stay tuned. Howard Hampton will be up next. He's the authority when it

comes to energy policy in the province of Ontario. And I'm sure that members of this assembly, Conservatives and Liberals, are going to be so happy, because Mr. Hampton has been very, very adept at

pointing out that the Liberals have followed Jim Wilson's hydro policies and they really are not working.

I've got to say to my good friend Mr. Barrett, the member for -- I don't know the riding and wish I could mention it by name --

The Acting Speaker: Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant.

Mr. Bisson: -- Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant that I didn't get a chance to see the entire speech; I saw part of it in my office. I thought it was

rather interesting, but I have to ask you the following question.

We know that hydro prices in this province have gone through the roof, and as a result of that, consumers, as far as individuals living at home, are paying

more than they've ever had to pay for electricity before. God, we've got people in all of our constituencies who are really trying do all they can to save electricity because they can't afford to

buy it. So, (1) we know that consumers are being hurt, and (2) we know that industry -- just today, we saw the announcement of Domtar shutting down that mill permanently in the community of

Cornwall; we saw Domtar's closure in Ottawa. We saw Thunder Bay's closure. We saw the closure in Kenora. All of these are related to hydro prices.

I have to ask you, after all of this time, looking at what the effects of this policy have been to the economy of Ontario and to consumers, is the Conservative

caucus prepared to repent? Are you finally prepared to say, after all these years, that, yes, Howard Hampton and the New Democrats were right, that public power is the way to go, that this sort of

experiment in deregulation of the electricity market and the partial privatization of the system has been a disaster, and that finally, after all this time, you're all going to wake up and say,

"Yeah, we should have listened to Howard Hampton"? I really want to hear the comments of my good friend Mr. Barrett on that one.

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): In the infamous summer of 2003, the summer of the great blackout, one of the things I was concerned about

personally was what I can do to save some energy. In a year when energy prices kept rising and rising, I found that by using some of the switches on my appliances that I had never even known were

there, I could do such things as set the dishwasher, let it go for a two-hour or a four-hour delay and do the same thing with my dryer. I replaced incandescent bulbs with compact fluorescents. A

number of years ago, I bought a programmable thermostat and cut my energy use substantially.

There are many things that people can do in their homes with the equipment they have right now that'll make a big difference on their energy prices. Even

though prices may be going up, a lot of you can look at your appliances and bring your costs down.

In my own area, Enersource contacted me. In the neighbourhood of Churchill Meadows, my home is the first one in the entire neighbourhood to have a smart meter.

That's going to show me, as a homeowner, what difference using energy at different times of day will make and will allow me to adjust my own usage patterns to figure out how I can minimize my costs

in years to come by using electricity later in the evening, when it's cheaper, as opposed to using it during the prime hours, when it's more expensive. The net result to me is all the same; the

only difference is that I get to save money.

This is the sort of thing that most Ontarians can do, and this is part of what Bill 21 proposes: a series of common sense measures that allow people to use

some of the devices available to them, some of the measures that are very cost-effective for each and every one of them and, despite the fact that electricity prices are rising all over the world,

to take their costs and bring them down.

Mr. Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): I just want to say to my NDP colleague that if they'd followed my energy policy, we wouldn't be in this mess. We

had reasonable prices. In fact, we saw prices drop dramatically when the market opened. It wasn't until we had a blackout that wasn't our fault and a very, very hot summer that we saw prices go up,

which you'd expect in a market.

Having said that, my colleague from Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant talked about smart meters. Smart meters eventually become dumb meters. The government says that

it's $3 to $4 to $5 to $8 a month on our hydro bills that these meters are going to cost. It will likely be much more than that, because the same vendors who stood to make tens of millions of

dollars by giving us all meters when I was Minister of Energy are selling you a bill of goods. The fact of the matter is that unless you buy the top-of-the-line, upgradeable smart meter for your

home, which nobody can afford and very few businesses today can afford, even though there is an incentive out there for businesses to have smart meters right now, or interval meters -- very few

people can afford the top of the line; thousands and thousands of dollars so you can keep the software upgraded in it. Otherwise you're going to end up with a very dumb meter.

All I can say is that the people of Ontario are being completely fooled by this legislation. They're being taken down the garden path that leads to nowhere but

Hades. Because the fact of the matter is that unless prices are going to be three or four times what they are today per kilowatt hour, which is running at about 13 or 14 cents as I looked on the

Web this morning -- if it's three or four times that, you might have an incentive to actually save a few kilowatts of power during the day, if you can run your dishwasher at the right time, or your

dryer or whatever. So they must be anticipating extremely high prices; otherwise, the payback time for a smart meter is longer than the meter will last itself. There's nowhere in the world where

this is working, even in England, where they did it in a great big way and the government paid for all the meters.

So I just say, you're being led down the garden path and you should listen to my colleague, who made a very good speech about this.

The Acting Speaker: The member from Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant has two minutes in which to respond.

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I want to thank the members for their comments on a speech I made a week ago Tuesday night. I

reiterate that certainly we agree that conservation is important in any energy plan. Supply is crucial. We have questions about the smart meter initiatives. I don't know whether it has really been

thought out. The questions continue to be raised: How much is it going to cost? We really haven't been told that. What are the tangible benefits? Without these kinds of answers, we are concerned

that -- many of these consumers are having trouble meeting their electrical bills as it is.

This particular piece of legislation is a culmination of two years of announcing umpteen times over that smart meters are coming. I indicated last week that I

regretted that there was no mention of net meters. There was a lot of talk about smart meters; no talk of net meters.

Hydro One has put out a document. They define net metering as "a system of measuring the energy you use against the energy you generate, resulting in a net

energy total from which your bill is calculated." Of course, this has relevance for people who have their own water power system, wind power system or solar power system. I feel that Hydro One and

this particular government should be in a position to encourage people who can generate their own power to have the ability to sell it.

As of 2003, Hydro One does not pay for any excess generation. I understand a regulation is being worked on with respect to net metering. I would like to see a

position where the customer receives a credit for any energy exported into the grid, and I would hope this government would move that along.

The Acting Speaker: Further debate?

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Mr. Speaker, this is my leadoff time, so I have a number of comments I want to make about this

bill.

I wish I could stand here and say that this bill is somehow creating new turf, that it is a bold step forward, that it has vision to it, that it has a

direction to it. But in fact when I look at this bill, it is really a bill about smart meters, with a little bit of window dressing around the side. If the government had simply introduced it as a

bill to provide for the implementation of smart meters and then included the other sections as an add-on, it would be a more accurate description of what's really going on here. However, as is the

habit of the McGuinty government, they are trying to spin this bill as somehow being the apple pie and ice cream of energy conservation and energy efficiency. That's the government's spin. The

reality, when you read the bill, is that it is very slender and doesn't do much of anything in terms of energy efficiency or energy conservation.

Now let me just say that in contrast to this bill, which is very slender, which is at best vague, doesn't have a vision and doesn't have a direction, the real

energy policy of the McGuinty government is to go nuclear and go big and go private. That's the real energy policy of this government. That's why we see a backroom energy deal with Bruce Power

being signed, which, when you add in all of the loopholes and all of the fine print, ensures that the electricity that will be delivered, if it is delivered, will be very expensive electricity and

is going to drive people's hydro bills ever higher.

That is the McGuinty government's real electricity policy: Go nuclear, go big and go private. Of course, they don't want to admit that to the people of

Ontario. As a result, we see the slender pickings that come with this bill but lots of press releases trying to advertise this bill as something very wonderful.

It's worth noting that we're now entering the third year of the McGuinty government in a four-year mandate, so we're past the halfway point. Through the first

two years and now three months, I've been looking for real energy efficiency measures. I've actually been looking for something from this government that constitutes an energy efficiency policy,

that constitutes an energy conservation program, that has practical things that people can implement in their own homes, that has practical things that small businesses can implement, that has

practical things that industrial operations like paper mills can implement. I've actually been looking for those things. I want to give you an example of some of the things that could be done.

If you live in the province of Quebec now or you live in the province of Manitoba, there are real, practical strategies that people can implement. For example,

Manitoba Hydro has something that they call the Power Smart program. If you're a homeowner in that province and you want to get serious about energy efficiency, you can apply to the Power Smart

program. They'll send out somebody who's an energy efficiency expert to do an audit of your home. They'll look at your insulation and your insulation factors; they'll look at your windows and

doors, and your energy efficiency there; they'll look at your heating system; they'll look at your ventilation system -- and they'll give you a report. Not only will they give you a report, but you

can apply for a $5,000 low-interest loan.

So if the audit says, "Your insulation is not up to standard and you really should look at reinsulating your home," you can take that $5,000 loan and use it

for the purpose of reinsulating your home so that you have less leakage of warm air in the winter and less concern about dealing with really hot air on the outside in the summer. You could also use

that low-interest loan to put in energy-efficient windows. As we know, a triple-pane window that's an energy-efficient design will allow you to keep cold air out in the winter and hot air out in

the summer, all of which will reduce your heating consumption in the winter and your air-conditioning consumption in the summer.

You can use the low-interest loan to purchase high-efficiency appliances, and that's important. For example, if you have a refrigerator that is 10 years old or

older, chances are it uses three to four times the amount of electricity as an up-to-date, energy-efficient refrigerator. Of course, the refrigerator is always on. It better be always on or you

shouldn't be eating the food that's stored in the refrigerator. So if you can get an energy-efficient refrigerator, you can seriously reduce your electricity bill and save electricity. In Manitoba,

you can actually use the Power Smart program to get a low-interest loan to purchase that energy-efficient refrigerator or freezer. Of course, part of the plan is that you have to turn over your

old, inefficient refrigerator. You can't take it to the cottage and plug it in there or take it down to the basement and start using it as a beer fridge. The idea is to get these inefficient, older

appliances out of the system. That's how you bring down electricity consumption.

That's what you could do in Manitoba, and do you know what? Manitoba doesn't have an electricity shortage; Manitoba actually has an electricity surplus.

They're way ahead of the McGuinty government in Ontario.

But it's not just Manitoba. If you go to Quebec, there they call their strategy the Energy Wise strategy and it's very similar. You can have your home or your

business or even a public building audited to see what you need to do to increase the energy efficiency of your building and lower your electricity or natural gas costs and your energy consumption.

There, you can get an audit. It's paid for, but if the audit shows that you have an older home and the insulation is inadequate, you can get a low-interest loan to insulate your home. You can get a

low-interest loan for energy-efficient windows and doors. You can get a low-interest loan to install a high-efficiency heating system. You can get a low-interest loan to purchase energy efficiency

appliances. Then, whatever money you save on your electricity bill or your natural gas bill or your oil bill, you can use to pay back the low-interest loan.

The provinces to the west and east of us have actual practical strategies for people to reduce their electricity and natural gas consumption and do something

good for the environment. There's even a mechanism whereby people can finance it without having to go into serious debt themselves or without having to come up with $5,000, $6,000 or $7,000 cash,

which many people don't have.

Is there such a strategy here in Ontario? After all the press releases of the McGuinty government, after all the photo ops, after all the media spin talking

about energy efficiency and energy conservation, is there such a practical, on-the-ground strategy by the McGuinty government in Ontario? No, nothing of the sort.

It's incredible. If you counted up the number of photo ops that the Premier and his ministers have held, if you counted up the number of press releases, if you

counted up the number of gimmicks that they've launched, all of them talking about energy efficiency and about energy conservation, you would think that Ontario ought to have a practical,

on-the-ground strategy that homeowners could use. But alas, after you cut through all the media spin, after you cut through all the photo ops and the gimmicks of the McGuinty government, there's

nothing. There's nothing there for responsible people who want to reduce their electricity consumption and who want to reduce their natural gas consumption -- nothing. It's all completely phony.

It's all about press releases and photo ops and gimmicks in an attempt to fool people, but when somebody actually wants to do something to reduce their energy consumption, there is no program and

no plan on the ground by this government.

Now, there have been lots of recommendations given to the government. I want to quote a report from the Pembina Institute and the Canadian Environmental Law

Association called Power for the Future: Towards a Sustainable Electricity System for Ontario. When I last raised this issue, the government said, "This report is very new." Well, this report has

now been around since May 2004, and it's chock full of practical things that a government could do, things that it wouldn't take you six months to implement. It wouldn't even take you six weeks to

implement it. You could announce the strategy today and start implementing it next week. I want to read some of these things, because I think the average person in Ontario ought to know about them:

practical things that this government could have done and should have done but has failed to do.

Let me give you one example: "The provincial building code should be amended to require R2000, Canadian building improvement program (CBIP) or equivalent

energy efficiency performance for all new buildings and building renovations by 2010." It's a simple thing: Improve the building code so that these things happen. Here we are into the third year of

the McGuinty government. Have they passed legislation to improve the building code? No -- a simple, elementary thing like that.

It says, "The most energy-efficient technologies in all sectors and end uses should be labelled through the Energy Star program or, if not included in Energy

Star, through a provincial labelling system." Is that true in Ontario? No. It's just a simple strategy of labelling, so that when people go to purchase a refrigerator, a freezer, a stove or other

electrical appliances, they would know right away, "Gee, this is an energy-efficient one. This is what I should do if I care about the environment, and this is what I should do in order to reduce

my electricity consumption." They haven't done that either.

Another point: "The Planning Act should be amended to permit municipalities to make energy efficiency design requirements a condition of planning and site

approvals for new buildings." It doesn't say "consult." It doesn't say "maybe." It says "make energy efficiency design requirements a condition." Has this government done that? No, not at all.

It says the government should implement a demand-response incentive mechanism. Has this government done that on a province-wide basis, after entering into its

third year of government? No, it hasn't done that either.

These are just practical things that would make sense in terms of the average Ontarian, in terms of helping them to reduce their electricity consumption. Three

years into the McGuinty government, none of it has been done -- none of it.

Just to give you an example, one area where you see just an incredible waste of electricity, and this is particularly true in southern Ontario, is in apartment

buildings that were built quick and cheap in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. I've been in lots of those apartment buildings across this province. In fact, if you start in Windsor and drive up through

Chatham and London on the 401, and maybe get off on the 403 and go through Brampton, Brantford, Hamilton, Burlington and Mississauga, through Toronto, through Oshawa and into Durham, if you do that

and you're counting up all the apartment buildings that were built cheap and had either no insulation or inadequate insulation, that have windows that are terribly inefficient -- in fact, if you

sit or stand too close to the windows in the wintertime, you're at risk of pneumonia. Because electric heat was cheap and easy to install, they installed electric heat, even though

environmentalists will tell you that electric heat is so inefficient that it's like cutting butter with a chainsaw. These are terribly inefficient buildings. In the winter, again, because most of

them have electric heat, these buildings guzzle electricity. If you don't have any insulation to keep the cold air out, and you have leaky windows that allow the cold air to come in, then you

guzzle electricity trying to keep the place warm. So they waste electricity in winter. In summer, because there's no insulation to keep hot air out, and the windows are leaky and they allow all the

hot air in, they guzzle electricity for the purposes of air conditioning.

I think that a practical, reasonable person would ask, "Gee, doesn't the government have a strategy, a program, something practical to retrofit these buildings

that guzzle electricity in winter and guzzle electricity in summer?" That's a natural, reasonable question to ask. In fact, though, the answer once again is no. After all the talk, after all the

photo ops, after all the media spin, after all the gimmicks from the McGuinty government, no strategy, no practical program for retrofitting all of these apartment buildings that guzzle electricity

in winter and guzzle electricity in summer, no program or plan whatsoever.

Again, I want to contrast Ontario with Quebec. Quebec, which does not have an electricity shortage, which sells electricity to Ontario and sells electricity to

New England and the state of New York, this summer was retrofitting dozens of apartment buildings in the city of Montreal. New insulation was being put in, better insulation was being put in,

energy-efficient windows were being put in, new high-efficiency heating systems were being put in and new energy-efficient appliances were being put in, all to reduce electricity consumption in

those old, badly built, electrically heated apartment buildings.

So I ask, if Quebec can do it, if Quebec is doing it now, what is wrong with the McGuinty government? What happened to the McGuinty government? The only

solution I can come up with is that the McGuinty government is so impressed with their photo ops, so impressed with their gimmicks and so impressed with their media spin that they don't believe

they have to do anything practical or real on the energy efficiency and energy conservation front. They believe it's simply enough to utter the promises and hold the photo ops and they believe they

can fool the public of Ontario. Let me tell you that tomorrow the Pembina Institute and the Canadian Environmental Law Association are coming out with a report which discloses just how empty, just

how vacuous, just how visionless all of the McGuinty government spin about energy efficiency and energy conservation is. So I say to the McGuinty government, you can continue to hold your photo

ops,