Volume 1 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-sEVENTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 1st. Session VERBATIM REPORT WEDNESDAY, MAY 19, 1976 Number 67 SPEAKER; THE HONOURABLE GERALD RYAN OTTENHEIMER

:: .• y 19 , 1976 Tape no. 2800 Page 1 - row The House met at 3:00 P .H. ' lr. Speaker in the Chair. STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS: liR. SPEAKER: The han. Uinister of Fisheries. ~in.. \J. CARTER: I Hr. Speaker, I am very happy to inform the House that tenders will soon be called by the Department of Fisheries for the construction of a fish handling facility at }~usgrave Harbour l· SOHE !!ON. }!EMBERS: Hear, hear! HR. W. CARTER: Last Fall, Hr.

Speaker, shortly after assuming my portfolio, I visited }!usgrave Harbour and met with the fishermen at which time it was pointed out to me the need for such a facility in that community at which time I promised that I would certainly look into the matter and hopefully be able to make an announcement after this year's estimates. This pr01nise Mr. Speaker, too, 1 think, is consistent with a similar promise made a few months or a few weeks prior to that time by my colleague, the Minister of !1ines and Energy who was then l!inister of Fisheries . So today I ruu keeping a promise made by both of us. Last year, Mr.

Speaker, in the community of ~fusgrave Harbour the fishermen there landed almost three and one-half million pounds of fish, which is almost a record for a community of that size and the number of ships that were involved in the fishery. I met with the fishermen, and I must say that I was tremendously impressed with their enthusiasm and their interest in the fisheries, and the prospects they showed for the future. I do not think I have ever met a better group of people in my life involved in the inshore fishery. This facility, }tt.

Speaker, will be sort of a multi-purpose facility ln that we will be installing ice-making capability, unloading capability there as well, plus a building, and also a salt fish processing capability as well.

19 . 1976 Tape no . 2800 Page 2 '!R. S:ti\Ll..li')()O: !\ :tew building? · !l' . '..1 . CARTEr.: •· new build ina, yes . ' 1!' .. S!tALLtmoo: That will be extending the present one further a ton g . ·:n. '11 . CARTF.R: The pre!':ent whnrf, ~{r . Speaker, wns constructed JY t he fede ral ~o .,ernment, and tha t is now being extended by that government to enable more dock.l.ng space for more ships . ''lt. SIIALLh'OOD: f.xtended how? What direction? :lR. ~~.

CART I:!~: I ilave not seen the pl:l.ns, and when I visited ' ·uss~:ave liarbour last the extension was not started, but I assume it is :m "I." she.pe of an extension . SHAL!..HOOO: It goes l.m·U ,c:: off the rock . 'I !'t. 'N . C.-\P.TI:": : Yes out ~nd probably in . As 1 say we hope thi:; will be abo a multi-purpose racil ity anc! t ha: we will be , in conjunction with the Canadian Salt : lsl . Cot'poration, provtdin~; some t;alt fish processing capability in !:h.1t builc i ~ J.::l well . "R . :!EARY: \Jill they be pu~ting Unancing into it t oo?

T11ey will , I understand , be involved , not in thP. bu ilding but probnbly iu a splitting machine or some k.l.nd of, •1h:1Lcvcr tltc nece ss:lry [acil1tles are for saltin!; fish. Is there to be a fillettng facility? '':! . N. CA!t'rER: Yes. I am co1~it1g to that ltr . Speaker . Once this build ing i~ comp~etec by governmen t it ~~11 then be handed over, i n L'1e sense, to a fishermen ' s committee as we do in all cases. ':113: connittee ' 'ill then, in conjunction with governmen t , negotiate \~i th a fis h processor in tbe at:e<l .

I am not: prepared now to na;l)e the compn:'ly, bu: ! c;m tell t he ltouse that there is a lot of Interest . 's :1 ::13tter of f:tct: I thin!: it hns been pretty well agreed between •:t ls lar 0e fish proc essor in the area aorl ~~th the fishermen of "H::;gr:we ::arbou- to i :is tall a filleting capabili ty L• the plact as well. ·rp. "" ... 'L C.''.!tTI!R: '·'ell t!ti! :·Lo•. .'l"D;,e-. said 1t. I rlid not, hut 1 can X197

:lay l <) , 19 76 T~pe no. 2800 Page 3 - mw ;!r. H. Carter . tell the ilouse that the plant in Valleyfield , yes, is very interested in providi.ne that facility. hlR. S!f~J..Umrm: H'R. NEARY: HR. W. CARTER: l)f course. Beothuck Fisheries. lleothuck Fisheries. Some time ago the government, Mr. Speaker, announced its policy of restricting maybe the issuance of licences for feeder plant type OI•erations in the Province.

But in this case t~here the fish is caught in excess of forty miles from l:'h.ere it is processed and over what is not a very good road at the moment, then I believe that a feeder type operation is essential and indeed necessary to ensure that the fish arrive in the plant,where it will be finally processed,in a good quality. t1r. Speaker, I am very happy to make this announcement. I again commend the fishermen of Musgrave Harbour for their attitude. They are a very energetic group of fishermen who helped themselves to a large extent, and I think that this moQc on the part of gover~ent, Mr.

Speaker, is a further indication, maybe, of government's intention to promote the inshore fishery and further expresses its determination to do everything possible to ensure that our inshore fishermen are given a chance to earn a living from that industry without being incumhered by the lack of facilities that are required. ~~P. !::HALUWOD: llefore the minister sits down. He did not complete his thoueht on the filleting facilities. He did not spell it out. ~m. W. CA'R.TER: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I have had discussions with the operators of Beothuck Fisheries in Valleyfield, and I have been assured by that gentleman, Mr. Way, that he is very interested, keenly interested as a ~,tter of fact 1 in providing a filleting facility in that 81.98

4 - '1W ·•r. ~· . r.:trt~r . ·•b'lt. r · ·ant :1: .. House to know , ~lr . Spenker, that I am not <:o"'l,itt1.n:; 'ir .

Boyd P.:\y or his comp;u~y to that f~cility, but T r.nn tell ehc fiousr: that there is a lot of interes t , and 1 nn pr!rso:lally prl't t}' HC U convinced that once the building is <:MlplcL <:d th."'t there tdll ?e a filleting line established in thP lmilrling , :.:s T s:tid nn i.co -mald .nr, machinP :lnd also some fnri lltiPs for u:1lo ndin;: fish,anti thanl<s to Uncle Ottava,a <:i~t':tble ex;:>ansion on the cxistin~ whatfing facility and breakwater f1cility at 'lusP,nwc i:!arbour . • 1 P. ~!AI. r.wo0n: ·'1<1d shed . ·.-n •.:. CA!lTER: Yes . ' lk .

S'IAL!.i:OOP : r~od, good, good ! !'!~' ''r. 110!'1. 'T.·':l~P": Hear , hear! 'IR. Sl' f'AI(!::l: r;,.PT . 'll~SI')ft: 7tc hon . menbcr for Po~o. ·•r. S;>~aker, 1 t is the best news s 19 !l

T ' •.1vc he:1rr1 s~ncc this 'lot•se nf. Ar;s<"rnbly met l2st November.

I r.ert:>inl,. cnTT1!1'enr1 the minister l'!nd if the action of the r>resent 1"inist<>r i~ :1rty indication nf. gettinr, things done and gett1.ng :!.t r1nnc Cllli.cl<l y-~ec'luse aR he st;>tP<' hp riel meet 1·rith the fi.shennen C r r 'os~T.'I1VC llarhOIIT.' ] ;>St l";>] 1 I hel:J eve again sol'letil!'E' clur:f.ng the :·'inter. therP ,.rnc; a rlele-p,.tjon in and it '"as sort of promisee) that this sort of a sherl '•nuld he constructed and 1t1ore and better faciJit:ies pr<'!V i c1ec1 • lt is ~rn,:>:inr '•hat one min1.ster can do that another mini.ster enu]cl not c10.

The previous minister clid make some, J think, tent,.tive l'e js cnrryinp; nn ,.,J,at I started. r~. l'"'· VTN!'O": 11 <'11 tl•en ln that ca11e, t'r. Speaker Y c~>, Tal". ro:inr, to. In that case I Hi]] spJit '"Y th;>nl : s ancl .~rprc•ciation to both hon. rnin5sters. Rut, ilr. Spe01ker, n<'t more than fjvt ' ypar" ?[!o tl, ere •·•as but one ]on?-;linE;r fisld.np Tbat lonpUner l,ac1. to harbour after August or fcptel"lher up nl' l'f'sl eyviJ le.

I vis:ttec1 the area •~ ith tbe then i'in i"ter of f i~hcr ic s, .T;or.l< ""vis, ancl we met t·T ith the co!I11Jlittee there ,1.n<i rtl1er ns11erme1' and he.> saw imme<Untely tl1at in orc1er for rusgrave ;l ;>rl our t0 surviv e C!S :1 rfsl inr C0111l11\lnity then there nrust be f<'IC'il ities pr<'vitlec' and provl,lec1 quic~. Jy. It ,,•as not Jon!' before there was a cc>mpJetely net• harbour constructec1 at ~·u~rrave H<>rhnur. 'T'nclay there are no le~s than t~·elve ;mel there FiJ 1 probabJ y hr fifteen 1 onrHners fisldnr out of there tl1is ~~t1Mm~r. ~~ t 1 1P l·nn.

TTljnister- TPelve to fifteen, yes. ~. t least fHteen . CAPT. HINSOP: Yes. !md as the l"injster rointe£1 out ' this Hill provir 1e t I.e• ri shcr!'1en •·ith not only an up-to-date and moc1ern. fac .iJ i.ty for the catching ancl curi.ng of fish but it \··nJ .~]so rrovide a source of labour t ·~l :i ch (.) '1!\0 Oc~ U

.... , .. Jil , 1"7f• " ~> pe 2110 1 I B- 7 r ,·r- . IIT! ' " I'I' ' : - ------ 1 N" not her nu' ;- 'n;o t h11r o che r rol'J"'un:i ty hccmLc;e t hPr e J i es; ~"Y n :~ t i.vP !tof"'", An~ .1ny t hir'l! ' t !::'lt ~·oul tl clcprive the rr.ople of Hesle yviJ lc f r om ' ncl i('r t he pn ll t t hree yeR r ll ft lo ,q~ not hcen l' Yc u ~now ~·h rn t~f' think of t he I ;.:1r nr t he- nev!" ~ t• :.t now the r~ln i :=:te r has come t h r ou~ h .,.;ith h is t 1 i ·: f:• c· l!

I t :· . 1'1 cv 1·•H l he\ •'olfrl terl nnrl I certa inly coMltPn•' ld n· fi ne' .,., Lhr 1r bch:J r T ~ inc c- rr• J v rlrnnk loir. . • ' 11 h<' pnint ec' out t hf' r e ~o·e •<' J . 5 111Dl i C' n f'Onnds o f fl!lh c~arh c Jn ' 'ns p ·:wc 1' nr l-our l ast ye:~ r and t hat had to be trucve •l n· •l'r 11 vo:> r y c1 us t Y nnd ro u ~h 'I'Ollrl . Conseque ntly t he qual:i t y of t h:tr r ;,h c:<Htl r' no t hi" n11 vrhinp hut .1C'Ss t loan f.i. r sr r:~te . ~'<''-' oV(' )~ore · ".- r hnur . Tt j !" rc>r c r hnn n co i ncl <'eace , I suppose, 1'r.

SpE:<!ke r, 1 l <' f<'I'Pr nl :'C'vcrr-rr t ls ro'·rut ro c:~ ll t cncler J bE'J ieve tm.,orr <w c>T "d /:~ ~· fl"r rh~· exr ens; 1on t"( harbo ur imprcwerncnt s; tlte re . :':o ynn B201

• ':1• · I :J, J <t 7r 111--3 r:c,:'-r. l'f\ar~ nrr1 cr, p1ea~c! CfPT. l'T~1 S0f': .. r. rpc~a~ ~ er, T once <lfain thank the l!On .. 1'~i_njs.ter r-· f f'i~;l-leric~. T , .. ~;.:h loiro nnth.in.n but -.;.~ell nnd J elF sure he w·ilJ "C't tl~r..: ~u r· rn rt 0r tl--P Fi shP.rrren flf that etrec1. 1'1' . f, J'E~.KT'P.: The hon. me11''-ler for '!'uil l:inrnte.

l'ay 1'), 197fi Tape 2802 I .Il-l ''1'. S>'ALUlTiOn: ~!r. Speaker, unt:loubtedJy the happiest han. !'leimber in the chamber at the moll'ent is the former "finister of Fisheries, the han. and gallant captain who represents that d]strict in this !louse and has tlone for so1)'e years past. He is unrlcmbtedly the happlest memher of the !'ouse at this motl'ent and he has every good reason to 11(' happy. The T'ljnister, the present Yin:! ster of Fisheries, deserves the W<'lrmest possih1e th<'lnks of the han. member for Fo11:o district (Capt.

P]nsor) and the w•rmest possible thanks from the fishermen of that part of Fogo nistr:!ct and the warmest thanks from this House. It :Is the latest in a series of good thin!!S that he h11s been doing ant:l T thin~ that in all probability we may take these as an earnest, only an earneRt of other good things to come. He is one of the young Turks on other other side of the House, the young, energetic and a.l"bitious 111inistere who are determined to get things done. God bl.ess them and it is good for Newfoundland.

And I am sure there cannot be anybody so Sll!.all minded or small hearted on this side of the House as to begrudge them the ~redit they have earned and are earning by t:loing good things. That is the name of the game. done. It does not really matter who does it so long as it gets T feel like paying high tribute to the former Liberal Administration that ran this Province under whose aegis the great improvement was put there in the first place,under whose a•gis the road was built in the second place. There was no road at all there until the former Liberal Administration built it.

But after you have pai~ high tribute to all the good deeds of the former Liberal Administration H boils down to this today that the 011e hon. member of this House who has summed it all up by doing the logical thing, the thing that flows from what was done before, is the pre~ent ~'inister of Fisheries. I do not begru~ge him any praise. he is my boy. He entered public life - SnM.E HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! After all Hl'. SHALL~WOD: He is. At least he was. He was my boy. He entered public life under my auspices, worked in my office, left my offie to

May 19, 1976 Tape 2802 IB-2 MR. SYALLWOOD: enter public life, sat over there where about the preaent member for St. John's East (Mr. ~arshall) is sitting now or 1omewbere along- t1 II • NOLAN The Minister of Health. MR.. SMALLWOOD: The Rinister of Health. He was a front bencher. ~e was a front backbencher. MR. NEARY: I was right behind the bon. member. MR. SMALLWOOD: I see. Well anyway so we do not begrudge him any credit he may get. The more of this the better. Whoever is in office, whoever r.he government are, the more of this the better. This is what Newfoundland really needs. I was down there last year.

I talked to those fishermen. I was down there the year before !alt and I talked with those fishermen,and they are a fine crowd of men. If you cannot encourage Newfoundlanders like that we might as well throw in the sponge. When you have men l:lke tqat, give them every possible backing. ·I am glad that the minister is doing that. I am sure that the hon. former minister is very happy about it as well. 1-!R. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. ~m. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I was late coming into the House just as Your Honour was calling Ministerial Statements.

I wonder if I could revert to when Your Honour called "Orcler" on a point of personal privilege. MR. SPEAKER: On a point of personal privilege. ~. NF..ARY: Which concerns, Your Honour, an

article in today's morning news, The heading of it is, uDeputy Was Not Asked To Quit Says Peckford.# The part of the

article that I am objecting to, Sir, is:~!r. Peckford added that he regretted statements by LaPoile MHA . Steve Neary, which tended to smear }<r. Keeping." Well, Sir, I do not know how the minister interpreted my peppering htm with queations about the various goings on in his department, how he related that to smearing ~r. Keepiug,because Mr. Keeping, Sir, would •e the lsat man - and I .cannot allow this to stand on the public record, Mr.

'11'ly 19, 1976 Tape 2802 IB-3 MR. NEAPY: Spel'lk~r- Mr. Keeping would be the last man in this world; if I was going to smear anybody he would be one of the last. He is one of nature's finest gentlemen and :Jn no way, shape or form- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hi!!ar, hear! MR. NEARY: - Sir, should the minister link his name with the other ~uestions I was putting to the minister about consulting fl!!es and so on. Thi!! minister must have had a warped sense of hWIIDr when hi!! made that remark. :Maybe the hon. min:J.ster was misquoted. I hope he was.

But certainly there was no relationship between the other questions and the resignation of "r. Keeping that may or may not be voluntary. We still have not had a statement from the mi.nister. And this is always the ~anger when the minister does not inform the Housl!! and does not makl!! statements. Rumors start to fly, reports Rtart to make the rounds, gossip starts to fly around and then you hear all kinds of queer stories.

And I bi!!lieve the minister would lw,!l.S all ministers would be, well-advised when a deputy resigns, as the forml!!r administration did, to come into the House and say,"We regret we have to announce the resignation of our deputy minister so and so ;'and this will clear up the situation. So, Sir, I want to repeat again that in no way, shape or form should that gentleman's name be associated with any of the other questions. I think there are three or four questions that I put to the minister about the enquiries, the investigations and the other things that are going on in his department. HH.

LUND RICAN lle will be prepared to deal with that. MR. NEARY: Well I am glad he will be. H20:l

May 19, 1976 ~ffi. SPEAKER: MR. BRETT: Tape no. 2803 Page 1 - IIIW' The han. Minister of Social Services. Mr. Speaker, I think I should elaborate on an

article in the May 18th edition of The Daily News yesterday which made reference to the incidents of child abuse in this Province. Throughout Canada there is an increasing concern over child abuse and the number of cases being reported is on the increase. The following shows the number of cases of child abuse that were brought to the attention of the Department of Social Services for the past three years or the past two and one-half years. In 1974 there was a total of twenty cases. In 1975 there was a total of nineteen and for the first four months of this year there 1~ere sixteen.

So it is very obvious, Sir, that there is an increase. Child abuse is the term used to describe severe battering and abuse, physical and emotional, of children by parentg, often cesulting in broken bones, burns and other serious iniuries. It is quite different from the traditional kind of ne>glect which results in the removal of children from parental care. This Province ~viis among the first in Canada to pass legislation dealing with child abuse. It was under the administration of the han. member for Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood).

In a.-u:ch, 1969 the Welfare Act was amended, and it was made compulsory for persons who knO'i7 of incidents of child abuse to report them to the Department of Social Services. Such cases, Hr. Speaker, are usually detected by medical doctors. Children who have been abused are often brought to doctors for treatment and where suspicion of abuse exists the doctor notifies the department and an investigation is initiated. Hy dep11rtment is as well prepared to -d.,;al with child abuse as any other department or agency in Canada.

Great emphasis is placed on staff training 'i>lith a view to prevention and early detection. The department conducts special seminars en child abuse for 8206

' 'ily l ')' 1 'l 7f, 'i'apl' no. 28:-13 T'age 2 - mw ;::-. Irc.tt. all its c!1ilc \/lelfare staff. These seminars emphasize the peculiar cloaracteristics of child a::.use and provide for L!J scLlsslons ''i th 'ncmLers of the 1:1edical and other professions. Social w·orkers in the Depnrtment of Social Services have a very dctaileu set of ~uiclelines to assist them in prevention :mJ e.uly detection of child abuse. A registry of abused children has been establtsheJ iu. our department.

I feel ~;tron;;ly, Sir, that continual efforts are necessary to ~:r,nl" publlc nwarcncss of the existence ancl seriousness of r.l1ll•' . .,lnwc in th ls ~):OVince an<! of citizens' responsibility tn r<'pcrt ::~11 suspected c<wes to tl1e proper authorities. And lr; closine, Si!", I wouB like to com~end ';he Daily Ne>iS for focusing attention on t!1is matter. PRESEN7ING PETITIONS: The han. Leader of the Opposition.

I ,,'Ould like to present a petition, Sir, that Las hecn signeJ by fifty-one men, all of them now or formerly c'mpl oyec>s of t\o/O companies v.·ho had contracts for work at the Come :;y Chai1ec refinery. The companies may have had other \·JOrL but ;,1J 1 of. these fifty-one of our fellaH Newfoundl,.,ders Horked at the refinery. They are el!lployees of the Metropolitan Security Cor.1p:my Limited and Eastern Canada Towing Company Llmited.

The former com:-any, the Hetropolitan Security Compan~·, T third., has many employees throughout the l,'rovince but the !:astern Canada Towing Company Limited as far as I know their 1mly business in "ewfoundland >Jas to provide, under contract the tugs ·.vhich assisted the very large crude carriers, the VLCC' s a1,J the product ' carriers, the Frank D. Moores and the Joseph R. Smallwood, I believe they were called, that took the finished products from Come .Gy Chnncc to market.

'" 'I)' l? , 1?76 '!'ape no· 2803 Pag~ 3 - mw ·:r. . S~ lALUlOOD: ! ltc;,pe they, arc still called that. ' !! ~ . ~OBERTS : The hon. gentleman f rom Twillingate (Hr . Smallwood) says he hopes they are still called that . I would think, :'>ir ; t hat a f ter the service the hon . gen t leman rendered Y£>Sterdny to !lr . John Shaheen that they would probably, almost certainl y (orcv er be named that . ' I!'. St!At..LHI"\0!) : lhey might change both names . '111.. "ROBERTS: 11: . Speaker , the hon. gentleman from T,.rillin gatc ( ~lr .

Smalll'lood) knot.;s infini tely more a bout : r . .1 oh:-: Shahee n t han I J o . :1'. l<E.".r.Y: tt"'vl>e th ey •~i. ll ca 1 l one "F.dwartl Mo)(On". ! nm so~y ? The H2U 3 ,..

- ~~ - 1 "I" '1.1'11\rr.rr;: ~c ntl(!l!l:tn from tn"oile (Mr. '<eary), Sir , has - ::_:_" ·"r.rrTS_:_ 1 am Jtlnc:' l1c ~as only joking. ~low, ?'r . ~pe11!:nr, t :1 1 ~ 1111ILc- Sc l" fl'll!S :~hout this bec:.tuse these fl"ty - one !'len , "'ir, .'lr<:- nut "r HOrl: 3.<: a re,.ult of the bankruptcy, and I use t im t tcr- in irs l egal sense, t!te bankrup tcy of the rnmc- ny <'hnn~e ~E'fi.ncry :mel the t1~o COI'lpanies t"tnt operated lt, the . cufourdlnl"d ll.efin tnr Company Limited :~nd Provinci al ''rf' in lns: Connnny Lfmitec.'.

The rr.:tyer of t~r nctition , Sir, T thiru; sta tes thP nnttC' T succi.nctly anrl C'ffectivPly . Tt is 11 8 follo,.s, '''ln Anril 12, l n7r. all the Cl'lpl oyees of Provinct.al Refinin~ rnmn11nv T.i m'ltl"t!, I·Jt th thP cxccptj ,on of five who T am told >~Pr. l' S<''lior INII".a&cment ocrsonnel , vere ~iven $750 severance ll:IY •w th!' T"rovi.ncial r.overnnt'n t.

Because Eastern Canada To\llnr nncl '!<'trorolita n <:ecruity had lonso. tern contracts t~ith rrovinci~l Tiefinin!: C:m'lpany Limted, ~1e were classifie d as ""TII'Mcnt ,..,.,loyees . nuring ner,otiations f or the severan .ce r:~v "r<>,i~r "orores a~reed tll11t security cmr1oyees and tug boat <'r.tf' lcwP<'~ woult! TPCeive sever~tnc e pAy al~o. This A!lreement 'lo'1S nC'Ir fuJFlll<>d hy th<' 'PrPmier for Soll\e unforeseen reason.

ThCIT<'fnrc, •tC' the unrlcrsir.ncd, pntition the 1>rrovinc1nl Governmc>nt C'IF 'lco1donn<l111n'' to hcmour th" nr.reeJI'.ent nncl mnke severance pay to u!; 1111!!'cd11ltclv.'' As l said, ~ir, it is sip,ned by fifty-one Men. Mr. ~reaker, in supporting this petition let me say thnt tn my l•nowln rlp,~;~ the tU.lep:ations in it are c:orrect . But I cannot """"k from my perso nal knowl.ed~e o£ nne allegation and that 1.s thC' O:lP thnt the rremier of this Province made a cotm:rl.tment to tl1ns(' "'en .

T w•s not present at those meetings hu t I may sny thnt the m('n who wer P. there tell me that such a commitment was made g2Q(}

''ay 1~. 1')7fi Tape No. 2804 NM - 2 'ffi. TI.OBF.RTS: and in the absence of a denial I \Jould assmne 1 t \''<IS made .• Jle thnt '1S it may, the 'Premier subsequently saw, at my rE>rruest, a delPgation from thP union at Come By Chance nnr't T helicve :In consuJ tat ion r.rith the Minister of Manpower and IndustriAl 'Rel11tions\ r.rho I see is here this afternoon Pvcn if the Pre~ier is not, agreed to review the situation m1d the result of that lvas that the men were told that t 11e Cabinet had again refusE!d to give them this severance p<~.y.

I am not sure if ;my reason 1ms given and if it was T ,Jo not know what it was. The fact remains, Sir, that if tbese men do not rocei.ve se'.TcrnncE' pay thE'y are being treated unjustly in that t:wy nre hcinr. treated on a different basis than the other 400 or 500 employees of the bankrupt refinery operations who have rccE'ived a golden handshake of $750 each from the Gov~?rnment of th:! s Province.

N.o matter the fact that these men were emrl oyed l'Y two scpl'lrate entities, the fact remainfl that tl1eir emplOyment was only and soley ~1ith the refinery operation ancl hecausc of the bankruptcy of the refinery operation these men nre now out of work and they are in exactly the Sl'me position in every way as the men who worked at the refinery, the men who \-!E~r.e,' I believe . quite properly and quite generously each given $7C,n by the r,ovcrrunent in lieu of severance pay. HC.U, Nr. <;peak!'!r, 'I support the petition.

I do so with whole-hearted enthusiasm because I think that it was ri~ht to p.ive thC' otl-ter refinery employel'!s the money and I believe it is equally rip,ht to p:iVP. thPse men the same amount of money. The morE' fact tt1:1.t thPv 1,•ere not directly on Provincial 'Refininp: CoTf\pany.'s pavrolJ, ~:!r, I thtnJ..: does not in any way rPlieve the mor~l ohli~ation of the ~ovl'!rnment to treat these men exactly n 1 i.l'e. 'l'hP. ~~ho] e matter, C:i r., iF> one of moral obligation becanse ns i, "'r'll l(no•·m thPrP is no ] es:>al ohliration on the part of the 8210

"r. DORF.RTC:· J"f'IV('rm!'nt or ar>vbo<lv E'lC:!' to pay these men Mverancf' nay. That has hee n thoroughly discussed here in the llouse . T supno rt the prt i tlon , Sir . T do so in the hnr>e t he :oovc-rnment will again consider t heir decision . Fifty-one 'll<'n;.,hic! l t bPll Pve is <tlmost all of the men lnvolv e I, ,,t ~7'i" eac11, is l<'ss than ~40 , 000 . That is not ,, lot n f money on top of the 53'1" ,"0" or 1:41)0,('100 that has nl rc.,dy he en r:~ f.<! nut.

It is not a lot of money, Sir , to ,PI •• ) rN'ri'Sl': ·~ h nt T 1•c-J IPvl' tn h<' unfntr nnd un1ust Aml disc r imin,,tnrv t r...:l tmt'n t . f.n i n lltesent inp, the petition , lr. Speaker, T appeal to the- ~ovc-rnmc-nt to rt>conside.r t his matter and to treat these I'IC'Il in exactly t he s~e fni.r and equitable way that they have treate d thc- ot'1er emnloyees of the refinery. 'JR. SPl:Aimn : l'<>fnrP. r cco~.!.?.in~ the hon. member for Twillinl!!ate ('It:.

S:-lallwoo<l), hefore reco~nizin~ him, it has been drawn to -v att t'n tion t h<lt there at:e ten high school students ft:om ~tc C::tllum 1 n the- l.C!nisl atu r e iln<l they arc nccompani ed by their tc-nchc>r 'tr. !!aTVcy Jnckmnn. I kno"' all hon. men:bers join with 1'1<' i.n wl'lcomJn ~ thl' students and their teacher to the House of /1:<s rml•ly nn'l J.n e.x )"'rCS!':in~ t he> wi.'lh that their visit here wilt he lnterestinr, nntl infon:ntlvc. ~ 21 1

l'ay 1~, 1'171\ Tape No. 28rJ5 N1-1 - 1 ~ m. SPF~F.R: The hon. member for Twillingate. HR. SHALLWOOD: l~r. Speaker, I endorse and support very c-ordially indeed the prayer of the petition just presented to the Rouse by the hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition. l approve. ·T agree.

I do not see quite how anyone can disagree. lit the same time I have to say hmv much I regret the fact that t!1c government, thour,h at the time I made the sur,gestion they clid say that they woulcl =ertainly consider it, but have not said a '1-rord about it since, how much I regret the fact that they ~id not accept my suggestion that at a cost of a couple of million dollars on a ~1.25 billion budget this year, they rl i<l not advanc" the money to hold the entire staff of roughly, 'i'lfl persons tvorking in the refinery, to keep them, to keep the st~ff lntact. necause as I said at the time it might be two or three or four months hut then the new owners could pay the p:overnment back and within the one financial year, the present year, ·.vithin the twelve months,. the government could have put out the couplP of million and got back the couple of million hut in the meamvhile one have hPlrJ the 5flQ Staff of the refinery, trained, dependable, reliable personnel, held them for the net-r owners, tvhoever they may turn out to he.

T ~eeply regret that the government did not take that chance. They have taken much greater chanc~;>s under . the administration of the present PremiPr, unner m~· ~d:ninistration. r,overnments havC' taken chanc~s and in this kind of Province we have no c~w1 ce hut to take-, chances. T am sorry they <lid not take that Tn the meanwhile I strongly support the prayer of the r~tit1, on so ahly moved by the Leader of the Opposition. 'IR • Sl'F.AKE~: The hon. member for LaPoile. I 'R • N'F.i\RY : '~r. Speaker, I support the prayer of the petition pres ented hy the Leader of the Opposition. I would assume from the 13212

•, 'T'ane !'lo. 2fl'15 nrayer of the petition and the explanatory remarks, t)le introductory remarks roade by the hon.

Leader of the npj>osj tion, tlwt the reason the governl'1ent is spl_itting hairs in this case ls that these tHo r,roups were working for firms that had a c-ontract Hith the refinery as compat-ed to those who wer e r ettin1'?; pain directly from the oil refinery itself. l: <in not heliove there should be any distinction, ~ir. 'f',e cm,loyees of these t•.ro compl).nies) probahly some cif thm'l rer1cttled, rcJoc.;ted in the 1'lreas and have gone through the i.ncnnveniei'.c C' aP.cl cxp,nse, t:v:' sal'l.e "'S thf' Pll'ployees ~~ho were <1 i r<'ctly on t '1 C' payroll of the nil refinery, and I helieve t',cv ~hou] cl l'r o;'v"n "<Jun] cons~_cl. erat:l.on to the enployees nf t~r otl rcfiP"ry.

Sn T support the prayer nf the ">c>tition, Sir, ann T hone tk1t t 't r f'.OITern!'lcnt wL.J 1 'lf!. ~PfAY.J\R: ! 'T'! SII !t'! ON~ . : The hon. member for Burgee - Bay rl'Espoir. w::rs holdirp; hac1 <, r:r. Speakt'!r, a;; T fuJ ly sidr. T woul•l 1 ik~ tl' hear very J!luch what the' Minister of "annoHer o r the <.ove!"nmc-mt J:ouse Leader or somebody else~ ill thr nloscncc of the T'renier ~might want to say about this suhj ect.

T hcl it,vc it is n very i"!))Ortant subject anCI J do not think one thnt nr!' <ls to h' tre:ttccl so obviously l:l.ghtJy :ts .it is hefnv tn'atr ·i <1- t~t!r; :oart1.cul<r time l1y r;ovcrnment. T would hppe so" eonc i.n r.overnment would · im!:!.cate, ~!r. Spe:1ker, to the Hou.<:!' 1Jh"t rovernment 's intent :tons arf' or if there is some particul:~r hind t;lCrr Hhy this cannot '-e c'one, ._,hy this re.,uest cai'r.C>t be accccler1 to. Wl' have an explanation. T, rnr l'lY prtrt, ~!r.

SpC'rtl~cr, ~10uld 1 ike to endorse verv .rho1e~hcrtrtedly thf' comments made hy my friend ann colle1'lguc, the :,..,nrlcr of th!' npnosition, the memher for Twillinr;ate(Hr. Smallwood), <1.nr1 thE' mel'lhcr for T.<l!'oile ("'r. Neary), l'ler.e '~e have fifty--one men

'rape ~!o. 2805 NH - 3 toho in P.very sense of thP. te'CIII, "'r. Speaker, nre victims, if I 111ny nse that term, victims in the same sPnsc that the other 400 workers plus . These 400 or so l<or"kc:>rs were direct employees of l>P.C, these fifty-one were <"rnployees of t1~0 othet: companies, the companies that provided tht> tn[lbont !':flrvtces to the rome ny Chance operation and the <"e>mpany .that supplied the security hackup for the Come 'By Chance f!Jleration. ...

}fay 19, 1976 Tape 2806 IB-1 MR.. SIMMONS: Otherwise, Mr. Speaker, except for the fact they were employed by niffer.ent companies, they are in every sense in the same category as these 400 plus workers who have already received some financial recognition from the government, about $750 each I believe. I find, l~r. Speaker, as a member of th1 s House and as a taxpayer, I ffnd it difficult to come up with any rationale as to Why this fine Jine is being dra~~ by government.

Why on the one hand the 400 or so workers are entitled.because they were direct employees of PRr, 1 would presume 1 and why on the other hand the fifty-one are not belng entitled, not being allowed to avail of thi.s pay in lieu of severence pay. I w~uld endorse what my friend from Straits of Belle 1sle (~r. Robe~ts) has said and make a strong plea on behalf of these men ~.n.o after all, Mr. Speaker, have been subjected to enough hardship by the very clo~inr, of the refinery and the circumstances that have gone along with it, the drastic drop in the market value of their homes for example.

They have suffered enough already and I would like to en~orse the plea and indeed reinforce it and ask government to accede to the prayer of the petition. It will not cost.in government terms, a lot of money but it will redress what I feel is a very real grievance ' on the part of these men. ~IR. FOBERTS: Well said! Well said! SOME HON. ~~F,PS: Hear, hear! tm. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Bellevue. I-'ll. CALLAN: Mr.

Speaker, I feel obligated, I suppose, to support the prayer of that petition and feel that I should have a few words to say on it, pC'rhaps because I think I know more about the situation than anv member who has spoken thus far. I am not sure that the $750 "'as really Cl\lled by the name severence pay in the first place. The reas9n for that,of course : is probably a good reason. It would not interfere with the unemployment insurance benefits of the workers who lost their johs.

M<>y 19, 197fi Tape 2806 IB-2 ~111. CALLAN: The th!ng that I do not understand about it, I wa!: at a meeting with these workers in the preaeftce of the Premier and some other cabinet ministers where the promise was made,of course,that th:l.nr,s would be put right with the workers and there was no distinct _ion drawn then between tug boat; operators, security, or some of the, I think there were five cooks also who are involved in this situation.

I think possibly the total figure ia Frobably fifty- six rather than fifty-one even though there was no mention made in the petition of five cooks who worked on the job. ~·r. Speaker, the reason given to the ~rUa why this money lvM ' given, the spverence pay was given, was, it said it was not l'everence p:ty ;t l' r. uch. Thf' :Idea was to give the workers who were kPpt on Rn incentive to c1o a r,ood .1ob. In other worrl.s they wou]d not c1o a had .ioh in putting the refinery in IIIDth balls.

Ndl~ that arr,ui!ICnt, of course,d ~ es not hold any l-1Bter at all because some of the men 1-1ho got this $750 had already gone to the Mainland to new jobs. }'R. ROBE~TS : Some had been gone I am told two or three weeks. J>!R. CALLAN : Some of these tugboat operators, Mr. Speaker, were working a couple of months after some others had gotten laid-off and so on,and they were there and they were being depended on to help moth ball the whole operation. So there are so many ramifications here.

I met with these gentlemen and with the Minister of Manpower Rnd I understand that the Minister of Manpower took the problem to cahinet and it was rejected by 'cabinet. Now whether or not the t':lnister of Manpower presented a good argument for the case of these gentlemen or not I do not know. The ~inister of ~Anpower has not spoken yet. I assume that he will speak and present the government's side of the picture. But I thoroQghly support the prayer of the petition and 1 hope that things will be put right for these fifty-one or fifty- six gentleme~ , whatever the case might be. Q ,, 1!' '''-'· H

:!H. :-:rr; tJ~r:~: ~~r_. C'lUDIE: Tape no. 2307 Page 1 - i'l\" The hon. mctabcr for Nasktupi. lfr. Speak~r, I beg leave to pres.ent o petition on . behalf of tf51 persons living in the community of North h'cst 1Uver an<l a nur.\ber of people from the conununi.t tes of Goose Bay - Happy Valley. The prayer of the petition is rather lengthy, and I think is quite self-explanatory so I vill restrict my comments to that and perhaps a couple of little side notes. But the prayer reads: "'He th.e undersigned in the electoral district of thskaupi respectfully submit ~hat our ;>rovincial ;;ovcrnmcnt ~ive immediate consideration to the upgrading and paving of the remaining

section of road be twcrn ~Torth \-lest Rtvrr <tnd Goose Day. At present this

section is in a deplorable condition <~hich is nothing nrw for th:l s :: -c.'l in ":he Sp·· ing of the year. Listed h.,low a.re som' ' of the problems and inconveniences caused by the coadlt.:.on of the ro!l.d.

(1) As there are a number of residents cornmutin<; to work <laily at Goose Bay conditions ~t this tlmc of the year causes lateness and loss of time. (?) ;u;:_h M:1int•2n"nce cost to vehicles.

(3) Unpleasant and tiri~e trips to an~ froM Goose Bay. At times taxi conpanics rc.fusin2 to tr.Lc pu':Jlic to nr from North West River causing i)Cnple ~o bP stranded in either community. Perishable produce "'t ttml?s del,qycd causing considerable deterioration. Business ricms in Goose Bay refusin~ to neliver goods to ~orth West River. Tr'lnsportation of stretcher patients impossible accomplished by at r when ~~eat her permits. And (8), social life at this time of the year nc .~rly impossible. Considering the above reasons we feel it to he imperative that the upgra<ling and paving of the remaining

section of tl,e co ad to be ess'cntial this year. It affects the future growth of this co~nunity and the overall development of this area. 8217

Tape no. 2807 Paf:C 2- mw 'T~. r.r1lTDIF.. Ancl just in terms of information, Mr. Speaker, t:w road in questi.on is approximately twenty-five :niles in lPngth. A portion of it has already been paved. Five miles \IC!' <' pave<! last yf! .Tr . At least the contract ~!as let for five miles of pavin g hut because of construction deadlines about (our miles ••ere pnved. That remaining section, of course, will hr finished this vear. /It least I hope it will be finished this year. And the remaining fifteen miles or so will have to 1w dealt with and that, of course, is obviously the purpose nr this particular petition.

I support the prayer of the petition, l'r. ~lH"a k er, :m<.l ::l>'<k that it be tabled and referred to the appropriat e dep;o.rtment to which it relates. •rn. Sl'F.AKER: 11~ • .T. 1o/INSOR: The han. member for Fortune - Hermitage, I rise to support the petition as presented 1-,y the han. member for Nask :mpi (Hr. Goudie), and I find it a little ridiculous that such a short m~leage, fifteen miles or t:o ln a l a rge are.'\ of the Province that has very little mileage ;J.t nll,should be left unpaved causing a great deal of Inconvenience to the two towns.

I think it is ridiculous to say tl"' least that more Attention has not been given to that little piece o~ road. It is such a vast area of land. I certainly have much ple11.sure in suuporting the petition. S!'ll1E liON. ~t EMBEP..S : Hear , hear : I :II. SPEAKER: 1m. STRACHAN: The hon. memher for Eagle River. Mr. Speaker, I wish to support the petitions presented by my friend from 1\faskaupi (}!r. Goudie). The road Fro!'l Goose Bay to North 1-iest River I have driven over many times. Tr.ey s11y if you driv e :l.t three times you buy a new car.

The people in that district :l.n I.abrador, as we are ~-rell aware, are getting r.:1t!1er vocal about the situation there, the situation within Labrador. 8210

lay 19, 1976 '!'ape no . 2807 Page 3 - I'IW !:r. Strnchan. Espc:cia l J y 1 feel that t he ~1 i niste-r of Tr ans po-rt a t i on :m,! Coml!lunic:ttions haR r.ert~inly a great deal on his plate In tryi :l£: to s.-ttisfy All tl:e dc:rAnds of tlte people in f .a~r ador 'In sup'{llyinr, the met hods of tTa nspor tat ion end connunicattons, ai.rs t rips, pAved rofid::, ~e ! ephones and "<lTi<'ull other forms of t r ansport:ttion . Rut 1 t hink as t~cll 11s conside r in& t hnt r onc! just as a means of c ommunica t1 on betwc.>en r.oosP.

Thy and North West Ri ver, 1.t should also be too~<cd upnll :ts an overAll t r:1nspo r tatto n scheme with i n l.:th:-1 ~o r .

" ,umher of ycnrs a to there wer e nany .llt t empts , ~nd succ~ssful a t tempts by icebr e ake r s to move i nto the ''o rt h 'ksr pnin t. area th r ousU\ ta};e ~l e l v1lle And iceb reakers wer e '111n.'l&in:; t o <"l't •Jp t o ~ · o rth !~est ~iver in t he nonth of l:mun,.y . f)'w1.Qu!'ly then usias re-e nfo r ce<l ves se l s . i ce r e-rnfn r c<:'cl vesi<Cl!l t!1e s>:\A!'ion in Lnbr.ndor could be "!Xtenrled ~r~~ rl y and the period of time when we have to re\y on air tr~n!l,or~n lo~ o f nur ~oo~~ could be con s iderably shor tened . l]t>urvcr r•,,.

V"<;:;c1" cortnirU.:,· canno t .-• , ,r., 1 o; o r r·.,. r.:: • . Jn'l ~ ' ., cr.~ nn "l" th ~ rc .1.ne nny i.ccb1"eal:er . ..,• rn .l't,.:: ,:. :~:: ~·' r oo11 t o p• t~l, t he- :lrr1 •,o:i.tle h:-c nu :1c 'tt r .'lf•., r~ I: . J.:tn:w · <: 't:>n'lP.l , ll 'ld o;o the y "1USt , thOTc:'fore s t op a t :torc h llcst polnt: and t:\a t is as (!lr 3.S they can reach.

Also ~:,<' chnnnc.l .:: Li.e C n rri·~::r:on :.asln i~ a l so an Clttr CDI<.'ly .lirr lca! t ch.1n.1d ~;, n<~v .l.g.'\tc ror 1-:tr<;r. :;hips an1 :::;er e llll3 been 111<my ' ,;,.; ~a::: --~'r'-:a •. •,1 oe b:[n..,·.n.:; c,~cn a..~J heavy ~ r c i ::;11t: dot.-"0 tc .:.)r: l: .-!c:;. 1•ui:1t \.'lu~rc lt Co..!ll' ver; c:-.s:!.ly ~c l oaded a !Joa::-r' l.o ;, n :- \'.· ;. ,1 .. . R21 j

~·&y 19, 1976 Tape 2808 -IB-1 ~- · STFACRAN: I think that ·a road system between Goose Bay and North Weat River should be looked upon not only as a narrow pathway or a single laned road or just a means of transportation for the people from the community, but it should be also fitted into the overall transportation scheme tryin~ to tie Labrador together as it comes into the early 1980's. Mll, SPEAKER: The bon. member for Fogo. CAPT. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, I too join the previous speakers in- supporting the petition for the paving of that stretch of road from Goose Bay to Nerth West River.

It was during my term as member for that df.strict that we saw fit, the previous administration aaw fit, to put a bridge across the Goose River. I was honoured by having that bridge called the Earl W. Hinsor Bridge and I hope the name is still viaable. MR. SMALLWOOD: CAPT. WINSOR: !-ln.. SHALLWOOD: CAPT. WINSOR: . Who put the name on it? I said I was honoured by the previous administration - But who put the name on it? Well if we have to be specific the bon. gentleman for Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood) took

part in that and christened that bridge. ~Ul. ROBF.RTS: Is that part of the coalition 'Earl'? Is there a coalition now? CAPT. WINSOR: Not by champagne but it was on the return trip when the Churchill Falls sod turning ceremony took place. _MR. SMALLWOOD: If it was not from champagne i _t was llristol Cream Sherry. CAPT. t.l1NSOR: Well that came after. It was not served on the bddge, However, J-'r. Speaker, not only d:ld the previous admini!itJ::ation build the bridge across the Goose ~iver but they built the road from th11t river all the way to North West River.

Now having done that the least that this present government ' can do is to upgrade and pave that road because, Mr. Speaker, there is not a mile of paved road outAide of Churchill Falla. Throughout that whole stretch of communities

1-'ay 19, 1976 TApe 2808 IB-2 CAPT. WINS OF: there ts not a mile outside rf the area of Churchill Falls and through the conmtunities of Goose Bay arid Happy Valley. Of course a lot of the paving that took place, a lot of the paving that is in at the Goose Bay ltself , was put there by the federal government and the USAF. However, Mr. Speaker, I think there is no area more neservl.ng of a paved roan. They are paying the sare taxes as we a re and they have " verv J i mited area or dis.tance in whtch to nrivP As the hon. me~ber for Eagle River (Mr.

Strachan) said you rlrive over it three times and your car is demolished. So I under,;tand too that since th:ls adl!'inistration have taken over the road has become very deteriorated and if they do not soon do sometlling about it they MaY have to reconstruct a whole nev road. Of course this is not only because of the local traffic. This is causerl by the heavy traffic eaused by the woods operation in the area, I •10u!d suspec t . I II~. STlvV:liAN Your bridge is falling down. ·- - - --- CAPT. WINSOR: ?'y bridge iB falling down? Well London Bridge was falUng doW!\. It was sold. So who knows? t'R.

ROWE: Winsor Bridges are falling do~~. CAPT. WDISflR: Now the Winsor Bridge is falling down. What a calamity! What a calamity and what a sha111e on the present go.vernment to see my name going in repute because of a lack of a few dollars. So I wot~ld urge upon the "inister of Communications and Transporation to give sympathetic consideration to this request and if he wants his name to ~o down in historv - J..!R . ROBFm'S: We ~qill name the bridge after him. r:APT. ~TINS OR: - then he vi 1 1 have to do some lll&j or work, road work , :ln the Labrador area becau9e, Sir, it is badly needed.

I support the petition. snm.; RON. ~ERS: Hear, hear! 8221

"av 1'1, 1'17A 'f!l • SPEAJ~ER: !<11·. ~!J7.ARY: Tape 1\Jo. 280'1 The hon. memhf'r for LaPoile, T 1muld like to take a moment, Sir, to .i oin ••i th the hon. members in supporting the petition presented hv th<' memher for Naskauni (Hr. Goudie) in tryin~ to persuade his coll~>.nf!,ttf', the Minister of Transportation and l";ommunications to reconstruct an <'I pave the stretch of road between North vlest "i ver :m<l l!appy Valley.

"'r. f:penker, nne very important point that may rnve escaped the> hon. gentlel'lan is the f.act that this would r>rornhly he a p,ooc yenr to start on road pavinr, in Labrador 1ir:-cmlsf' tie 1d 1.1 soon "rc thf' inau~ural trip of the William rnrson .<;tartinr, .'l service hctween St. John's, Le,visporte, nne! llap.py Vall.f'y. Now l'r. Speaker,

whereas before it was rf\ther difficult to r,et the equipme .nt and to get the asphalt ·ann the material and so forth necessary to pave this road, T10H the n:inister can Call public tenderS and COntractorS all ovC"r the Tsland nnd alJ over Labrador for that matter-there mav hf' somebody in the area w·ho can do the .i o't, 1 I do not know. r.ut at least there can hf' competition now and there is no problem in movtnr. the P.q11ipment and the material and supplies into Labrador. ~'o th:l s is .'ln<'thf'r aspect of this whole matter that must 1-e ~n1(f'n :l.nto consirleration, Sir, ann I do hope, !fr, Speaker, that th<' mP.mher for Naskaup:l ('1r.Goudje) will he 'able to persuade his collengucs nnd the governTIIent to do something with that ron<l this ye::~r. ·~.

SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. ~r. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to stand in support of the pet!t'1.0n put forward by 111y colleague, the hon. r,entlmnan from "'asJ.-.aupi. It is always a pleasure to support a petition from that part of the Province, whether it be for tr~nRn0rtation n0ePs or any other needs. 'Ml.c ro:1•i referred to in the petition by the 400-Plus residentr. is· a road that 1vas not n<'glecte .d 1 as Tllentioned by a spokesman

"'ll. MflRr.AN: 1n the OpposHion,hy this r,overnment. Just last year the problems of transportation were recognized fu~lv .hv mv predecessor, my present colleague, the Minister of Agriculture ann Forestry, whe.re the tenders were awarded ann were ci\rried out for five miles of reconstruction and paving on that same road. There at present remains fifteen miles of gravel read and indeed I was down over the roan there approximntely three months ago with my friend ~nd colleague, the member for the area, and saw the condition and recognized the need for some corrective action to be taken.

So in continuation of the policy put forward by my predecessors in this department we fuJ ly recognize the importance of adequate transportation means in Labrador, and I will be continuing In clcvelopinr, policies and continuing efforts to improve anrl to make surf:> nn adequate transportation system is established in Labrador, whether it be two airstrips, which we are now working on,or improving road conditions. So I am indeed pleased today to inform the hon. gentleman from Naskaupi (f'lr.

Goudie) ancl inform this House of Assembly that tenders will be called within a matter of weeks for the total reconstruction of that road from ~.lorth 1-fest River to r.oose Bay . SO~m Wl'l. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! ~1R. !10RGAN: Just a few words more, 'fr. Speaker, when the House of Assembly closes I will he only too pleased to travel to Labrador 1-1ith hoth my collear,ue on this sine of the House of Assembly and my colL;!2.gue in the House of Assembly in Opposition, from Eagle River (~r.

Strachan), to travel to Labrador with them and look at the transportation needs and to rut my P.fforts in that direction over the next number of months. Rear! !lear! HR. SPEAKF.R: The hon. Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. 822]

Tap€' ~lo. 28(1<) NH: - 3 ' 1' . ROU ~ SFA I I : "r . Sreokcr • T wonl.:! cert:tinly lik<' to add my s upport to th <! nrny c r of the petition and welcome the :mnounccm~nt hv the "1nist cr of Trans1)ortation :tnd Communications. /\;; the m1nlntcr :;uggestcd the r,overnment call tenders last vr·a r f<'r: five mi.lcs of road and indicated that ~Ie would trv in t h rPI' yt> &rl' to cl" that.

Rut SOl'l<' sur.Re stion has been, vou •:nol> , ~l is n ice to r.tart on the ~:oad system in Labrador anrl to srend soll'e m<>ncy on it. t doub t very much if my r.o 1 J C!ilgues on this side of the House are aware of the figure and T would like t o let the 'lon. House know on tooth sides . T ~1onl.d t'li.n k that ~.., mifl .ion 1.•orth of t•ork was contracted fot" In rond ••ork tn J.abr:~do r North • Labrador South and Labrn dor It is a fif!ur c that i .s not well known..> So thet"e \ms cmite a I oft <> f work t hat went on in Labrador.

Some of the npr.rmlinr nn thl' T -t~ br:~dor South R'>Rd and,of coUt"se, t h lf: road ln No rth WP.st Rivet" anti some other smal ler wo-ck ~lPn r t he coast ,which "as not enousrb ,and some over in the ~!estern nnrt of LahnHlot". ~o certain l y t am very pleased t o see the continuation 111' 1~ c-f an expenditure on thE' rond system in Labrador. It is ~c rt:~lnlv ~reatl y needed and 1 hnve g~cRt pleasure RS I say, '~ !:.

Sr-en!<er., in '?n th s upporting the petition of my bon . col lea true :1'1(1 frtt'nd f rom ' laskau1'1 (Hr . r..oudie) , and also •.otelcollling the ~ood news of my collcn:-.ue . the 'finister of Trans portation and C:o!11111unic.:tt .ions. ....

Tape ;1o. 2310 W. srr'1c!:f.: Tllre Lea . !'inister without Portfolio. ::r. Spcnl~er, I \vish to present a petition from apprcxinntcly (,f)r residents of the Goulds. This concerns, ::r. s :,l!a~•.er, a proposcc' lnciner:ttor for the Shoal Bay Road.

H I mighL daborntc for a moment,the Ilouse might recall that a couple of years ago it was proposed to put a major regional dump in the Goulds - Kilbride area and that met with strong opposition fro17l the residents and the idea was abandoned. lv11at is proposE:<! this time is an incinerator which will serve five communities, '!obile, l'etty Harbour, Bay Bulls, Goulds and, of course, the 1!addox Cove area also. At any rate this WilS clone or the plan arose from a committee of representatives of the varlous tmms, :!r. Speaker, in consultation with the J)epartment of Provincial Affairs and Environment.

Uowever, although nll the steps were carried out and taken in discussing this ;natter and in planning for this matter, it has met with the complete opposition of the residents of the Goulds ' and more particularly, of course, the residents of the Shoal Bay Road area. It is not just a matter, !1r. Speaker, of saying, ''No,we do not ,. want the incinerator there. It is a matter of being prepared to discuss with the department and with the town council :1lternative si~es which the residents believe are present in the area and which could fill the bill admirably, and in oarticular Mr.

Speaker, a site midway between the town of Goulds and Bay Bulls which is on the main road, the main highway and also has the advantage of not being near any settled community. There apparently is the space there and an excellent site for such a proposed incinerator. So I would support the petition, Hr. Speaker, - ~IR. ROBERTS · What is the prayer of it? l !IL lvELLS: !vcll the prayer of it actually is so simple, a petition to stop a proposed dump on Shoal Bay Road. So I have to elabora 'te to deal with the matter.

' lny 19, 1976 Tape no. 2810 Page 2- mw ··:r. Wells. t.s I say I support the petition, Mr. Speaker, and commend it to my colleague, the Hinister of Provincial ,\ff~irs anu 1\nvironmcnt :mel ,,10ul<l ask him to explore with the cltizens and the town councils o( the various communities ot\tcr alternatives ,ancl in particular the alternative site bct~;een nay C11lls :md the Goulds. l'n. SPSA:Jm: The han. Leader of the Opposition. 'Uc. ROBERTS: TJ,ar. :.. you, Hr.

Speaker, Speaking, Sir, for my colleagues I should like to support very strongly the prayer of the petition which \•'as presentetl by the member for Kilbride (Mr. Wells) in his capacity as the member for that district, the district of :·:ilbr ide ant.! signed by so r.mny hundreds of his const:j.tuents.

I think the request, Sir, is a perfectly compre!u:q:wiblc one and I think it is a very reasonable one antl t am very rleased to see that the petitioners have !;One beyond the usual step of just saying we are against it :md hav e tnkcn the futher and very welcome step of suggesting either in their pE'tition or through the agency of their member an ;;1lternat;e solution to the problem. Because I think, Mn Speaker, that t],~t is the nub of the matter. Whether we like it or not garbage 1s generated.

I saw, I think it was in The Evening Telegram Ute otlwr Jay, that whe reas a few years past one pound per person )H~r day I.'D.S b<.!irtg gcuer .:1teu in the Hetropolitan St.

John's area, 1 t i.s nnw fottr pounds per person per day or some very t>l[;<1lilca;lt increase. 'the garbace must be disposed of and since ; 1c h<1ve come :1 t long l<ls t in this Province to the point whe':!e we rccl.lgnize th;l t lt rnu:>t be uisposed of in an ordered way and tlot the t raditional \·Jay o[ jus t t !trowing it in the land wash-in how many ,,[ our ·!.arbours around this Province, Sir, does one look at the land ,,a s n and sec ru s ty tin cans floating back and forth or look at -, bank S22!i

't'~pe no. 2Sl') !'age 3 - ow r:r. !'.ot.>ert;~. just at the edge or a co:munity,over a bank or inn hole -;o!llt\t1here a:~l.! sac, you know , a festering mass o( garb:tge l ;/e ll we ::trc i.eyo n.! tl:at now ;md in area after area we !tave ore:mi.?.Cd bodies. Inuecci we hav~ 3 foro of CjuaSi :uunicip :tl so•ICnu:lent: that is called a ~-aste ~ispo:;al Co:u:~Htee that ~as as its sole purpose the handlin g of waste disposal .~rc:ts . ::r.

Speaker , w~ !:;~ve oot gone far enough and L:1t:c: i'C\tJrl,, n, 1 LhJn:,, Lr ln~s the mntter vPry directly to t!1c polnl:. ;.,tunlly in point t~ould be the incredible Jltu:~:ion wldd: Js coatl.nuin6 to cKist do•..m in St. John ' s •:.'Is L !'.xtc-rr. a:: th<:' 'llob!n !iooc! Bay, the dump used by the city of St. John's. The governr.~en t, Sir, pa1:ticulnr ly the ~'i.ni !Jtcr o f l'rovi.ncial Aff:1i rs, who is not here unfortunately, the govern"ll!nt 'tnvc f.'lllcn doo;..'tl. They have almost abdicated thnir: r:es ponsibility in this :natter.

The r.overnment , Sir, nu'll as:;umr the responsibi11ty for ensuring that adeq ua te \.I;J:ste rlinpo:;:ll si tes are made available and that they are used propedy . It has gone fal' beyond any municipality The problem,! thtnk,out on the Shoal Cove Road - and l have had ~ tuHc & lo t to do with people fro:n the nreA ·~ho have come to n\c - fh<' proble"' t here is that the ounicipalitie s as the member said hov e followP.d all or the required steps. They have done all that they oueht to l:;1ve done :tccording to the rules and according to t il<' l·w . 'he thry

~ay 19, 1976 Tap~ 2811 IB-1 mt. ROBERTS : still hav~ not m~t th~ n~~d. What is needed, Sir, is a minister who wtll seize hold of the issue and who will take it upon himself)with the help of his officials in any ~xpertiadvice he needs; to make !'lure that adequate waste disposal sites are made available, that th~y are used and that they are used properly. It is not enough, Sir, to tak~ a hands-off atti.tude. One could mak~ quite bad puns about hands off the garbage and all that. But, ~r.

Speak~r, the point is that with respect to the Robin Hood ar~a, the Pobin Rood Bay Area, would b~ the clearest on~, ~he gov~rnment have just in ~ffect washed their hands of it. And I do not mean to mix th~ metaphors. It is not the sort of subject that I want to try to be funny or witty about. Yet that cannot do, Sir. We do not have a m~tropolitan government in the St. John 1 s area. 'f'h<> H~>trn lln>~r<l rlnPs nnt h"""' th<> authority for this typ~ of thing.

What we need in the absence of such a _government is an authority - and it can only be the government that w:!.ll come to grips with th~ matter, that will lay out an area and that will say, "All rip.;ht that is the r~gional dump area." The problem is getting wars~ and wors~ and worse every day. It will continue to ret ~~orse. It wHl not go away. So in supporting the petition J say to th~ minister who introduced it that I quite agree with the approach which his constituents have taken.

I think it is the r:!rht one and I say, Sir, that I hope he and his colleagu~s will seize hold of this issue and will deal with it in the way they ought. It is something, Sir, where the government have a responsiblity and they mu11t exercise it. The present minister of Provincial Affairs and the Environment :Is abdicating it completely and that, ~ir, cannot be accepted, It cannot he tolerated. It ioes far beyond matters of beautification or social concern. It is very quickly, Sir, going to become a matter affect:!ng the health cond:l.tions of people and that, Sir, would be much too late.

So in supporting the petition I call upon the gov~rnment to assu- the:l.r proper responsibility and to do what must b~ done for H22:;

I'I'IV 19, 1976 Tap~ 2811 IB-2 r~. ROBERTS: Shoal Cove, Shoal Cov~ Road 1 but also, Sir, for Robin Hood Bay and for the whole ar~a around the metropolitan St. John's area. sm~ HON. MF.!-'BF'PS: Hear, hear! ~~- SPF.AKEP : The hon. member for LaPoile. 1~ . Nr. "Y: "r. Spea.ker, judging by the number of phone calls that J r.ot from people in the r~ulds area in the last ten days I would say Mr.

Speaker, the feelings in connection w:!.th the proposed Shoal Ray dump, were running very , very high indeed One thing the hon. member did not indicate to the House when the bon. member presented the pE-tition was this came. as a complete surprise ann a complete shock to the people i n the area, that there was going to be a dump estebl:! shed alonr. the Snoal Ray Road. The people had no i rlea at all. As a matter of fact, Sir, it leaked out, I wouJd not he a b:lt surprised but one of the members of the council who was at the meeting leaked out the information. the people got wind of it.

That is how And the next day on radio - as a matter of fact I was doing some research in the registry office to see if the land had been purchased and who purchased the land when the story broke on the radio by one of the same gentlemen who called me to complain about this dump. As it turns out it was an incinerator. But the people were not informed and this is the main point, Sir.

It was rather regrettable- an~ the minister did not mention this point either - that the Yintster of ~ 'unicipal Affairs had granted permission to the r.oulds town council,wh:!.ch has a complement normally of seven councillors, had g:!.ven the town council approval to operate with three members. They were down to three members, Their complemeat through resignations or people leaving the area or something, their complement was down to thr~e. So they were operating with less than a quorum and met with the other representatives in the area and took this major decision.

I think, Sir, it was very unwise of the Minister of Municipal Affa:!.rs to give the counc:ll

May 19, 1976 Tape 2811 IB-3 MR. NEARY: that authority, the three remaining ~embers. They should have had by-elections and filled these vacancies decisions. and then take these major So I do hope, Mr. Speaker, that as a result now of the furor and the fuss that has been kicked up by the people in the areA that justice will be done and that the member for the dutrict will be able to get toge ther with his colleague, the Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environment and persuade the bon . ge~~tleman and his officials to go down and pick out a site for this incinerator soMewhere halfway between Coulds and Bay Bulla.

I think that is the area which the residents down there favour for the locatioa of the incinerator. R2Jil ,.. ,.. ..

l!rty ]'), ]')7F, Tape 'To. 2812 lr1 •. 1 The hon. ~<inistcr of Tourism . ' IT'.. ST'V.AV:f:R: ~:r . !IICKEY: 'fr. Snea1~er, I would like to add a word of support to the prrtyer of the petition inasmuch as the prayer is simply seeldnr, ccmsu] tati on 1rl.th the nenartment of Provincial Affairs and l'nvironmcnt, for the purpose of discussing an alternate sit<'. I fN•l ohlir,atecl to come to the defence of my colleague i.n his absence. I do not think it is quite fair, '<r. Speaker ., to place the blame on my colleague.

I realize that the minister is responsible in the general way for all the actions of all his staff but to say that my colleague, or to snr,gest indeed that my colleagu",,~as not prepared to meet or 'ms not interested in meeting with the people of the area, T do not think i.s a valid cnrmnent. In filling in for my collo>ap:ue I will assure my colleague the Hinister Without Portfolio that T will immediately look into - •rr.. Nf.A~Y: Who said he • .,as not prepared to meet with them? '<R.

HIC:fF.Y: Tl1e sur,r,estion was made that we have washed our h'mcls of the> '"hnl e p,arbage situation. <;()'IE 110'1. 1-!f.}ffif.r. s : 0h , 0 h ! ~rn. HICKEY: This is m,y

interpretation, ~r. Sneaker, of what lvas srtid. He> c:J.n pet Hansard and check it if we wish. ~ffi. NEARY: By whom? ~R. HICKEY: It is immaterial, Mr. Speaker, by whom, We are not decidin~ one's fate or anything. I do not think it is so important that ,,,e figure out who said what? And also the charge or the statement by the Leader of the Opposition that thP r,overnment has washed its hands of the entire garbage situation in the City of St. John's, that is not necessarily true, Nr. Speaker.

A!' one who is keenly interesterl in the future of the Rohin Pood Ro.y and th" overctll decisions that woulcl be ..,,,]e w:lth regards to this problem, I can certainly say that this administration has not washed its hands of the situation. 8231

. ":ly l':', 1975 Tape N'o. 2~12 NM- 2 HR. RORERTS: ~7hnt has the eovermncnt done? '~'he govermnent has taken a number of steps, '·'r. Sneah~r. HR • RORt~RT!l Name One. ---- ---- ~ rr: . llT\.KF."I': Ann you ](!low I am not going to get into a debating dcnl Hith t~c T.c<J.c!er of the 0pposition. I can certainly point out to him very quickly that this govcrrunent has done a darn site more than the former government did with regards to this problem. T t is not so sinnlP., ~~r. Speaker, to sort this matter out. The C:ity of St. John's !ul.s a responsibility.

The Provincial Government is not tr>tally responsible to bear thr cost of the disposal of rarhnge for the C.ity of St. John's. Is there ar.y hon. member ""~r:~>stinf' that? 11l"o. 'fR. TTT\.J<l'V: Tt i ~ nnt so simple 11t all • Tt is not s·o simnl"' 11t al 1, 'lr. SpP.:>h•r, to say, "There is the site. 1-le do nor rtve t'vo hoots as tC) how much it :Is poing to cost' to crate thl' garbage to the site. T.et the City pay for it." It is not .inst that simnlc.

So I say to my he>n. friends opposite t '1<1t this ~nvcrmncnt has in need not washed its hands, nor has it washerl i.ts hands of the Robin Hood Bay situation and they c:~n he sure of t~1nt, "r. <;pc·al-.er. There has been statenent after stntemcnt after statement made with reP,ards to that disposal sit~. Tt is going, it is going and one of those days, Mr. Speaker, I al'l going to be very happy and proud to say it is gone. :-m. SPF.AJ(ER : The hon. rncrnher for Baie Verte - Hhite Bay. :'"P.. !UDFOUT: 'Tr.

Speaker, I would just like to add my support to the petition p.resentc<l hy the. hon. member for Kilbricle ("':r. Wells) and T would like to say that we supnort it thorou~hly. We are not snp.:gestinr. from this sine that the City or the Provincial Govt'rnment has total responsibility for doing away with the r,nrha?,C' of the City of St •. John's. We are not naive enough for that. We hel iC'.ve that there has to be a sharing of responsibility, H232

Tare· ~o . 2812 ~'- 3 '111 . nrnro1rr: Then• lta~ to hC' 11 co llcctive re);pon~ibi.li.ty in thIs particular aren anu nll 1:e nre snying :l~ for the p.overn!'lent to son of put its action where its mouth is ant! 'lhnw us hy somt' flrm action what they are prepared to do ahout t his pnrticular oroblem . The Leader of the Opposition has sur.gestf:'d thnt that has not been the case to this point. PrOM ouT knowledge 1~e can ('lnly say that that is true and that is ouT stand. That is our point . tJe supoort the petition. 'IlL ~PF. A KFR : 'Ill • r AJ.l .t. N TI>c hon. member for Bellevue .

"r. ~rcakeT , nbout a month ago, I think, 1 prcsf:'nted 11 retition her" in this llousc nnd in so doinr. I made the sur.p,cst ion thnt t 1~oultl ju.-.t as S()<)n tltnt n('lbocty <>lse bothered to support it h<'cnusC' lt wa:< lo'astlnr. the ttme of the House . Twice this afternoon thour.h I feel n1> lir.ated tn stand and suppo rt )first of :1ll , of course, 11 rC\tition on behalf of the> re finery workers earlier 1 and now this nne 1n cnnnecttcin witll pflrbagc di.sposnls ant! incinerators . 'I" . ~H'.AP.Y: The &avernm ent arc expe rts on garha ge disposnJ. S2 3:1

Tape no. 2813 Page 1 - mw rir. Call;m. '1r. Speaker, I have to agree with the 600 petitioners. They !'Ire s\.1[\gestinr; that the dump should not be located in the cpmmunity or near the community but to be located outside. Tvm weeks ago I attended a council meeting in Chance Cove lvltcre it was outlined .to me the need for an incinerator in that dump at Chance Cove which is in close proximity to the community, and there were good, logical, sensible reasons given why an incinerator was needed for that area. Jack's Pond T'rovincial Park used the dump and with no incinerator the garbage just pilPd up.

Bellevue Beach Provincial Park was using that dump, ll<'llPVue Beach Lounge, chicken take outs, all the residents of Chance Cove and so on. And it was brought to my attention at that meeting that in the community of Chance Cove rats were coming down froM the dump where· of course, ~vithout an incinerator the i_iitrbage just piled up and so on and rats were breeding.,. these rats were cominr dovm intr> the comunity and presenting problems, nneur!'!Jly, fnr ~orne of the residents.

So here is it logical rt'nnon ·Jhy a dnnp shoulr1 not bP loc."lted too near a community ntvl, nf counH'. i.t .1.lqo points out the need for the most 'OJorlr-rn ~.'l.rha~r~ di.,posnl ,._nd tl1r~t, of conrse, in tl,is case,is 1n in.r"!~~r:'ltnr. linl('?.~ th~ govern:rrPnt~A.nd unle.:.s \·!~ 11re prepared '" '~" ::tlJ ~~"' r."n. to try '!nc1 kec;:> our Province cJ c.:1n and ,_ealthy, nf crH,TSP, .,no '"ln so ..-,Tfth ~ctions, you 'kno~\ .. , rather than having ~'nn icipnl Affcirs come back as they did by the way in the case :1[ Ch3.ncc Cnve - a request ~;as IUade for the inciner<Jtor and goverrunent ,,\:"' back nnd sclc, ":Ia, an llcclucrator costs ~50,000 or $60,010, '''~ L;,,_ o.cc a~ ::;unnysidrc, "'1hic'1, of course, I totally disagree ..,.,j t:l- so, :1.s I say ur_lEsn .... ~~c are prepared to <.lo somethin~ concrete :0 e~olucatc tl11·· p1.1bllt: i..n tLe uE....:::cl for, you kno\:-, clean, healthy L0;il~.,~1c.i:tics an.L a ~lean, llcalt~·1y Province then all we can expe.ct i.:1 Lh..tL tltin.r;s ·,d11 happen like~ another incident which I observed ie,;tcrday.

On the way lnto St. Jo:m's yesterday I had some trouble

111 I" , I "7. . ';.p..: ill\ . 2/ll3 · r. Calla n: • · ::. cl.c .:::; . l pul leJ c.!: .:>r. :.;u'! sld• of t:.e !d:;nway thcr.:­ ;'I::J ~i .• nr. o- th._ 5iu" of the i.ighvay ~o.·as a \..ng of carb agc ju~ l ly tnr; L::c-r e t"Otti.n t; , of course , anti :ti.out twenty f ee t nw:l:.

Cr <n ::' '\! .,~s n .lend :!o:~. ~:hic h t o ;;~e - i'OU l:now, we ll:we : . ~:ud c:.e '10n~ , ;, t!cnd sl:unl. i n the ~ddl c o!' tile highw ay - 1:cll t l: Is \<n;; :t <lc.-.cl do~ on the side of the highw ay, and it :!p pc ~ll:c~ t o ~o;e chat tl.c <'on h1d just bi!c n prol>ably killed or cllcd at lt~t!l.C sor.cwhcn· Am! whoever ownnd it dis posed o £ l t In l!&e slmplt-s t ""Y• nt l<':l:< t, l>y just thrnwln n i t out of the c.u O'l the ::; ~. ! e or t he hi :,:hway .

And unles!l, as t said, uol<!ss •·c an: t~ r ,•p:tred to surpo rt petitions like the one just prcs e:1tod (or cleaner, bette r, healthie r communities an<! better dumps with incinerators and so on, the most modern, up-to-date du;;~piuc C:tcili::les t hen all ,..e can expect is the incident such as L'1e nne l observed yesterday . So I support the prayer of the petition :m<l I hope thac the hovc rllfllcnt acts on it . ~IR . SPEAKER: T!le hon. ne.'llhar for linsk;tupi. i·;J: .

Speaker , J be;; leave to present a second petition a.n•! uefo re preser.ting it I feel there should be, :~t l..::1Sl, or:e brief cx.planatory note and n1:1kc reference to n !Jt:Lition whlcl; '-'llS r rc:;o nted i n the llouso lost week . One ..:oul•! posstbly in so~1t> '"a.ys ct>nttadict the other I suppose .

T presented a pe titi on last week. on bebali of a number of senior c i t lo:~ns of llllflPY Valley - Goose Bay dea ling 1Jith the Paddon Memorial Hospital in this community and this petitio n is being p1:e,;en t cd on behalf of 1,180 residents of the llapj)y Valley sectio~ of the town as opposed to the to~1 of Happy Valley - COOS<.' Lay . The prnyec is brief: "1-!e the undersigned citizans of ll:~ppy Vnlley - Goose Bay s trongly protest and completely <lisa~;ree '""it 11 tlte ~ove r nment ' s apparent decision to move the :nedical facilities from tho Paddon Memorial Hospital to the 823~

:lay 1'1, l'J76 Tape no. 2813 Page 3 - mw :rr. Goudie. former >C,S.;\.1'. !lase Hospital. ~le feel this move will seriously inconvenience all citizens and in particular put ·' heavy and ser lous L>urden upon senior citizens. We seriously ilL>pt' tbat ,you w.ill reconsider and meet with local citizens on this serious matter." That, l'lr. Speaker, is the prayer of the petltion and as I drew attention to a petition earlier [ think the citizens of Happy Valley feel that the move now ls definitely going to take place and this is probably their last chance or: voicinr; their objections to that move.

I support the pri.lyer of the petit lou, ~:r. Speaker, and ask that it he placeJ on th~ table of the llouse and referred to the department to lh!lich it relates. ':lt. SPEAKER: The han. member for Fogo. CAPT. ~/I;!sOr..: '1r. Speaker, in supporting this petition I think it bears out what I said when I supported the petition presented by the llon. member when he presented a petition for the senior citi::ens'home.

And the intent was or the prayer <> f that petition was to tal~e tlte Paddon Nemori.'tl Hospital and convert it into a senior citizens' home, which is not a bad l:lva. llowever I did state in supporting the petition thiJ.t J. w"'' not convinced th:1t the people of Happy Valley were all Lltat ltappy abL>Ut lw.vin~ to move the medical facilities from :lctppy \'iJ.llcy to Coese Bay. AnJ, of course,no;,., Sir, 1,100 signatures attached to that petition bears out that there ls some tntth to what I itacl surmised.

The han. member finds itlmsclf in a precarious situation right not•• You know, havinL; to l>rln 1; in ortc petition to contradict the other is not a pleasant task. to have to do. However, I c~rtainly support the petition as presented because, Sir, that hospital, that · Paddon Memorial Hospital is a very fine building of very fine cnnf;truc tion. ,\nd it woulJ serv0. as a gnod senior citizens' home uit:1 so~('l ~n0dcration, some remodeling.

":; y 1 ') ' 19 7 (; Tnpc !10.. 2813 lr i ClC:.\N : ' 1d clt 15 it t;oin<:; tCJ b~, :1 hospital or a senior cltizcns'homc? _9-'J?T. \·II'TSO!'. : :'c11, acceding to th~ hou. member he is l11 ,1 l' redictn.ment now "here he cannot say. You lmm.· , he L; L1tc cle:ctl' ·1 nerober dovm there and he has got 1,100 - •.rhat :;tr:ltt'r,y not ,• nrc you goine, to , use to get the hon. member off the hoC'k? 1'(' ''' on n ltnoL nmL ;,o you cannot straddle both sides of the ft•nce. You Js:.O\·: you c•it~.cr got to sit on the pot or get off it.

So I fe~l sorry for the hon. member because, as I say, it ls :1 prec:uiou~ posi.ti.on. 'lm.;ever, I have :1n m.;ful lot of friends ~n l!nppy V:t]lcy, and I Sllpport that petition. smm TJ01\!. l"E!'nf.RS: Jla:cr, hear! W"._ SPEAKER: The hon. member for Engle rriver. :P:. STP~J\CIW": In supporting the prayer of the petition I would like to Yefcr b"ck to the previous petition which th~ •nemher rre~C'nted.

I can understand the dilemma,. the position ltP f:lnds hil.1sdf 1n. r.ut if you remember when I supported the ftn;t p•etition I stnted quite clearly thnt I supported it only on the' hnsis that the decision had been taken to move the hospital and that if that decision had been taken then there was very little else to do hut support the petition to have the present Paddon ~'cm<1rial. l!o.~pit;d turned into a senior citizens' home.

However, I am C<111cerned' and I stnted then, and I state aeain not' thnt the diffi.cult situation ti:nt the member finds himself in, and m~ny other people find the;uselves in,should surely have been overco•ne simply ty proper consultation with the council of llappy Vnlley - <:oose 13ay and the proper consultation with the ll~o·alth Committee vhlch, as I understand, vms set up particularly for this purpose o.nd haci been very active.

Reverend Buckle in llnppy v.,1ley h:~d hccn extremely o.ctive in objecting to the move ns fnr back '1S last November, I believe, and they feel that the rlec tsion has 'i.Jeen made to move the hospital over the top of their 1•isilcs. I can well imagine the difficulty the member must find c? '} ~ o ... JI

'':Jy !9. 1~7 ~ tape no . 2813 Page 5 - mw h1Msr lf in :In trying to h:Ultlle this situation. I do not knO'I.• f f the l<tin1.st<'r of nealth wishes to respond to this but l kno1" t~ithin ll:tppy lfnllcy - C:oosc Bay there has been a considerable ~~unt of nccusations that the minister did not consult with t 'w llc.:tlth Committee l'!nd, therefore, find out the feeling s of the p•·ople of the area before the decision t.ras tJtken . <;f')"r. 1 iO~. ''E'tBERS: llear, hear ! R238

l".ay 19. 1976 Tape 2814 IB-1 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Twillingate. ~- SMALLWOOn: }lr. Speaker, I find myself in a bit of a quandary in this matter. It was under my administration that the hospital Pas built and I had the honour to open it in quite an attractive ceremony, public ceremony. attended by a very large number of the people in that part of Labrador. I hate to think of the building just being closed and perhaps moth balled.

Yet if the other building is a more suitable hospital, why should it not be used7 Obviously for the sake of the people of that part of our Province the best facilities that are available to them are the facilities that ought to be u•ed and they appear to be the hospital recently vacated by the Armed Forces. HR. NEARY: We had the same situation in Stephenville, if you remember. NR. SMALLWOOD: Yes. The hon. gentleman for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary) reminds us that at Stephenville we had spent substantial sums of money to build a hospital and that then the Americans pulled out and we found ourselves heirs tc a very fine hospital building. We had to decide. It was a very practical decision to make. Would we just hang on to the hospital that we had built at Stephenville Crossing­ which . in fact , was the second one there . I believe, if I remember right.

There were two hospitals at Stephenville Crossing, the second being a portable building that we brought in from Montreal and assembled in place at Stephenville Crossing , no~1 would we just hang on to that and go on using it or avail ourselves of the opportunit~ suddenly dumped in our laps when the Americans pulled out, the opportunity to use a much larger, much better, much more convenient hospital, not at Stephenville Crossing but at Stephenville itself1 Our decision we did not hesitate to make. We made it. We choose the larr,er hospital.

Then arose the question, what weuld we do with the old hospital which we had put there·, What would we do with it? There was a powerful movement and I believe it was His Excellency, the Bishop of St. George's, Bishop O'Reilly, s 2 3 '.l

Hay 19, 1976 Tape 2814 ~m. SMALLWOOD: if I remember right, who rather initiated a movement to have the vacated hospital at Stephenvil.le Crossing used as a home for old IB-2 people. I do not think that that was ever done and frankly I am not aware at this moment of what is the present status of the former hospital at Stephenville Crossing. MR. NEARY: Welfare officers use it but there is a new senior citizens'home at Stephenville Crossing. MR. S~~LWOOD: Yes and that is my recollection, that everybody involved rather turned down the idea of uaing the old hospital as a home for elder people. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I hate the thought of a hospital that I waR instrumental in getting built an~ that I opened just being closed up and 1110th balled. I would like to see it used, put to goo? purpose. Now that is one part of my mind. The other

part is very much concerned with . my honourable and .genial, smiling friend who has so little to !'mile abo.ut these <:lays, the Minister of Finance. I am perhaps as much concerned as he ~s or perhaps even more than he is over the 'finances of this Province.

I would say that if that hosvital could be moth balled, laid aside, kept in shape, kept in condition for another couple or three years and spend nothing on it except the bare bones costs of keeping it from deteriorating, if that could be done and move into the large new hospital,that would be the wiser course for the government to take,in the light of the desperately· serious condition of the public purse. And that is a desperately serlous condition which very few honourable members of this House grasp or understand or appreciate or are very much lnterested in knowlng.

So if I were a member of the cabinet, if I were the Premier 9f this Province, I would be torn,as is the honourable member, the hon. gentleman, the member for the district is torn, he must be torn, I would be torn much more if I were a member of the cabinet than I am. Hut I am of two minds. I think I would lean in the direction of 8210

May 19, 1976 Tape 2814 IB-3 _l'R. SMALL HOOD: Peonomjzing. I thjnk I \vould. In fact I know I would. ~'R. SPEAKER: The hon. ~~inister of Health. MR. 1!. COLLINS: Hr. Speaker, I am pretty sure that all hon. members realize that the decision to obtain the U.S.A.F. hospital in Goose was taken some time ago and it was a difficult decision to make until one examined the financial implications.

The extension which had been planned,and people in Happy Valley were looking forward to it I know, the extension which had been planned to the Paddon MemorjaJ in Happy Valley would cost a minimum of $11 million in 1965 dollar terms, $11 million to put the extension on the old ?atton Memorial ~<hich would be required to meet the health needs of that region of Newfoundland. HR. SHALLWOOD: \?ould the hon. minister allow me to interrupt him to ask him a question? Can he give the House some assurance that whatever is done, the attempt of Newfoundland to honour the name of the late Dr.

Paddon will not be lost and that in some way his naFe will be preserved officially and formally1 ~~J\. H. COLLINS: Hr. Speaker, I will come back to that. But to continue in finishing what I was leading up to, the cost in 1965 dollars to extend the old PHrlr1on Yemorial in Happy Valley, 1965 dollars now, Mr. Speaker, was $11 million. The same time we were wrestling with this problem,along with the needs of other areas of the Province, along came the U.S.A.F. hospital available to us. Of course we would be crazy, we would be less than responsible, if we did not take a look at it. ~1r.

Speaker, we are not setting any precedence. The first hospital in Gander was a military hospital. That was the first one in Newfoundland which was taken over from the military. The Janeway atPepperrell was a military hospital and the one to which the hon. member for Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood) just referred in Stephenville was a military hospital. It is nothing new we are doing here. It is a marvellous facility with a potential for eighty beds. The Paddon has twenty now and we were talking about an expansion or an extension

May 19, 1976 Tape 2814 IB-4 ~!R. H. COLLINS: of twenty up to forty. Here is a facility with a potential for eighty beda. We will be opening forty. We have had federal health officials go in, architects, engineers, medical people, to look at it and they tell us that the building is good for at least twelve or fifteen years. It is well equipped, the ultimate in every _type of equipment which one would wish to find in a hospital. Now is it wise then for this government in this day and age - MR. S}!ALLWOOD : MR. H. COLLINS: intact for us. Are they leaving the equipment? Yes, Hr.

Speaker, the hospital has been left We have it. MR. SMALLWOOD: They wiJ1 not. They ripped out everything,even the pictures, the wires at Fort Pennerrell }ffi. H. COLLINS: Well we got in on this early and made sure that that did not happen ,The hospital is intact. Did we make the right decision, Mr. Speaker?

Here is a well equipped hospital with a potential f~r eighty beds at a cost of one dollar to this Province and we have worked out an agreement with the Ministry of Transport in Goose whereby all the maintenance will be done free of cost with the exception of any minor interior maintenance, like maybe moving a partitioa or moving a door or something. Snow clearing, heat, light and so on all provided free of charge •. Stack that up, one dollar, eighty bed hospital, stack that up against, at least now in those days, at the time we are living in now, $15 million or $16 million for another twenty beds.

The decision, Hr. Speaker, was easy. However after taking that decision we realized that there will be some concern and some unrest and some dissatisfaction in terms· of the people at Happy Valley because the hospital is right down in their midst. Now the new hospital is over in Goose Bay which is not too far away. It is not much further than from the East End of St. John's to the West End of St. John's, certainly no further than from

May 19, 1976 +ape 2814 IB-5 1-'n. H. COLLINS: Glenwood to Gander or from Husgrave Harbour to Gander and over a paved road. So, }(r. Speaker, R2t1

Tape No. 2815 NI-l - 1 '-1'P r.nt.T.T~JS: Tt "' '"' nonnnl , T supp os e , that peopl e • ~ oul cl , vo11 Lnow, e.xpress some displeasures but I think in terms of \'hat the government ''as faced with we had no alternative. 'l"ow the hon. memher for Ragle River (?'r. Strachan) says that there. was no consultation. Now when one gets up 1.n thi.s hon, House and. m::tkes a statement he should know what h!' is tall~ing ahout. There has been consultation. There has l1een meetings with Reverend Buckle and I am the joker \~ho met ••ith him, if he wants to call me a . . ioker. I have met with the Tr.A MR_.

RO~~ The hon. minister joker. "1":. C:flLLTNS: The hon. Leader of the Opposition just came in and hr. Is thE' h1.f'.f'.C'St lolrc.> in ~e~1founrlland. The hon. memhcr for r:ar,lc P.iver ('tr. Strachan) says that th0re h:ts been no consultation, there has been no meetings and they cannot r,et a meeting and the press has been saying that. T supnose he rearls the paper ant! he figures everything in the p:1pers j s factual and we all knov1 that is not so. There has l·.ccn !'1eet"f.nr;s, in f:1ct, thert? are other meetinr;s to take place. Thr l><)Tl. mel'lher Hho represents that fine

section of the country, '"' .1 nt'l J .'!re poing i.nto 11Rnpy Vnllcy - Goose Ray next 1-lednesday? "ext Prrnr~cl:1y, tl>c> :''lth. of 'hy, to l'leet ,,,i.th thr. very groups riftht nccision. T am convinced it "ill be in the best interest" or t1•r pN>plc· :!n that area. \1'1 th regard to nr. Paddon's n:tm<' on the oJ rl Paddon Memorial, tlwre \ms a petition prese~ted hrrr hy my frh,nd a couple of ~1eeks ap;o su(jgestinp tlu1t the old building, the old hospital should be used as a senior citizens' home, extended care facility or whatever. That was received and my colleague the hon. Minister of Recreat i on and Rehabilitation under t ook at that H2

Tape No. 281~ NM- 2 m•. r.nu. INS: t 1mc to receive re!=ommendations from the people in r.oose Rny - HttT>l"V Valley as to 'Jhat use that buil!=ling shoulrl be put to. ('nee that S4fU>;estion has been made I run sure that mv co]Jcnru~ will entertain it. And I am also sure that the Paddon na~e will re~in on that parti~ular building. The hon. 'linister of Justice. ''R. lTICK~!AN: T ~>iv~ notice that I will on tomorrow a~l< leave to introduce the following bills, a bil.l, "An Act To AI'Iend The f'uhJ.ic . ~ 1 tiUtie!l Act," (Bill No, 63), and a bill, "An Act ResDectina thP ''1'.

ST"fAf~ The hon, r•inistl'!r of Forestry and A3r,iculture. •m. llOl!SSV.o\P: "r. S!"eab'!r, T r.ive n"tice thnt J will on tomorrow n,.!, 'I ellve tn 1ntrnduce l'l bU 1 0 "An Act To Amencl The I.ivestock (Co!lllllunity Sale11) Act." (Bill No, 61) The hon. !1inister of F.ducation. 1m. !lOUSf.: '!r, Speaker, a couple of days ago, or a couple or w0eks ago in one case, the ·han. memher fnr Terra Nova (~r. tush) asked questions re~arding policies on education and I notice he is not in th€' J!ouse • J thou:-;ht he was t-.e::e, He was here earlier. rm.

R011P.RTS: lle has given trr> ln despair of ever p,etting tltp flues tions answ"red. ·n~. lll'!llSF: Tlw first ono was reganlinr; the 11abbatical leave for teachers, what their polic:l,es were, what eJ:"iteria they used. T am iqforminr, the hon. memher and thiA lll"ltAe tl!at n rroceduTe followed • Aa you !;:nnw t;he cqmmi t:tee was set up in nccordancP. with the provisions of the collective agTeement and comprised t~<o rcpres"ntatives of the NTA, two representatives of the nerartmel'lt of Education and one Tepresentative from the F'eclerntion of School Boards.

Applical:!ons were invi~e1 through the medium of the ~ITA aDd cjepartmeJ1tal publicatjonsJand applications were received from 02fr­() ·t .I

''ny 10, 1'17(, Tape No. 2HS N!-1 - 3 ''T' 110TTSE: · seventy teachers, and from that seventy, two people hnrl to be selected. The col'1mittee set up as their criteria the r,ui.delines and,of course,t!1is is 1.o1hat the hon. member ~~as interested in, the guidelines, and the guidelines were first of all the teacher qualifications and the people that wp <,muld p;ive this leave to ~vere peo:'le who did not have :m undergraduate degree. He tool: into consideration the experience, the rrofessional and the academic achievements, t~H'' accessibility or lack thereof of existing university prograll1'1\es to the teachers.

For instance somebocly living :mav ft'om lvherc off-camrus courses were offered would receive more recognition than those who have accessibility to these courses, and efforts made by the teacher to upgrade his ')ualifications in the past. llnd,of course,comrnents and observations W"'T<' Made hy the Rchool hoard officers also. ':mv the infonnation on which the CoiTilllittee made its rl ec- iR {on "as recE' i v!'cl from three main sources. T think the hon. mcmhcr for Terra !lova (~!r. J,uRh) said that one person was only asl<erl to T'rovi.rle ,,,here he lived.

There were three main sources :mel they were the teacher's application, that provided by the sch~ol hoard, and the information that we have on the teacher. This information is at the Department of Education and also at the \TTA office. So that is the answer to that fir~t question. Tl1e seconr1 ']Uestion regarded the government policy on frrc' tP.xt hooks, The free textbook policy was implemented :1 counle of years ago and conmlE>tcil. last year whcm we gave pnnils free text ),ooks up to grade eight.

But the policy that c.'C' initiated at that time Has not rip;idly enforced, the guidelines, lH~CI'tttse we ~1ere supplying a quarter of the textbooks every year, so every four year,; you '"ould have a turnover, So it was not rigidly enforced hecause we did not knm11 how the textbooks would stand un. So it is our intention this year to enforce the twenty­ five per cent annual replacement and anythin?, in addition to that will have to come to the minister or the Deputy ~inister. 82HI

'J'ape No. 2615 mt- 4 '1R. l!OlfSE: 'l'he reason we cannot enforce it rf.gidly is, •·le rio not know ho~r the books stand up.

For instance spelling hooks may on]v last two years rather than the four that we had proiecterl he cause they are very '!>Jell used books. ~Yith rcgC~rd to rl'placement of those that are l>lillfully dama'ged hy students, sclu•ol hoards have been advised it is their responsiM .Hty to collect the cost of this 1lillfull damage :111rl 1 of courst" 1 it is their res~onsihiiity in the final analysis. 1-:e <rill not !'eplaee these that are willfully 'lanta~l'<l unless they come within the quarter that 1~e replace ~"V<'ry year. "T"..

Srl';A!~rr> : 'li1 <> hon. ''insi tcr of Tourism. 'n'. mr.:'r:Y: ·~r. ~pea!<er, T have some answers to some of thr '"'t"~t:lcms. Twill read the question and a m•her inGtead of the HhoJ e of H because i.t will take quite a while. f)ues tirm No 522 e.s as'ccd hy the hon. member for !lcllevue (Hr. Callan) question ~lo.516 as asked by the hon. r~crnhcr for nellC'vuc (~'r. Callan), question No. 314 as asked ],y the hon. meml>er for 'J\dllinga te (~'r.

Smallwood) , question !lo.:J'lli, the s:'lmc hon. 1'\em'Jer, No. 3'15, No. 3M, No.21l7, qnestion No. 1:', ou~st-ton No. 281), and 285, 2M, 278, 273, ']It C.~ tion tk .77, question ~To .. 17, 1Hi, 427, asked by the hon. ml"mhcr for '!'\~illinr,ate (:fr. Smallwood), quest:j.on No.4~1,as askrc'l l'Y thr> 11on. me!'l.,er for ~ellevue ('"'r. Callan). 1 ·h_:-·we a number of othe-r: questions, I will have the answers in n couple of days, l·fr. ~peaker. 'MJl. ~PFAKJ'R: The hon. 'MiniAter of Mines and l'.nergy. '!'P.. CllOS!!IE: Mr.

Speaker, on April 8th. there was a Question :l«kecl '7f.'l:'l,al1y hy thr rtember for Conception Bay South ("!r. Nolan) :tl>out hcachcs. "1·n1at beaches ar.e t'1ern in the 'Provtnce from which sand an.-1 rocl : can he removed or cannot be removed,and if th:l.s is still P;Oinr, on from beaches in th"-' Province) is a permit granted or reC]uired " and so on.

'Tan!l ' lo. 2Rl5 frn'" tll r;- l'tcpartm,...nr of ' ines and P.ncrr. y and J have a number of 1 !sts ho:> r~: of o:>aches .. There are fi!)IJ and I want to deal l·rl.t h each heac:.h. I ·Want to answer t'1is questio n fully nnrl cornplctely . So there are 6('10 beaches, StOl!'ting with ''ind1e Cove, thar i .o; lo~ted DP.?.r St . • Tohn ' s the maximum pt>rmi t you c.:~n p,e for ti-Jr> ]{iddle Cove Deach is five cubic yar~s. hu t y ~ u cnn ~eta permit to take - material from i.rlrJl e r<'lvl" . ~almon Cove, r. Snea te r, in Conception Bay - ' n . OOOJ)Y: ~lm 1l 1 rh a r h~ <'lne ye11r or one person or i.s M'R.

C:rtO~tlTE: Th 1s is an individual permit, you kno1g one person ~ '' " r.ot on·c ni!TT'!i t for five cu ic yards mmci111Ul'l. IR. NEARY: nne ~ ye nr or one a week or one a day ? CROS'f\IE: T do not kno~1 how many a day . I suppose if you lin\"d up ou cou cl p,et 100 a day , although I doubt. it . I do not t'l i nk th rc 1m11'Ld be enough on the beach to r e mit that. 'T'11e rr;-r.ula t ions ,.. I I

May 19, 1976 Tape no. 2816 Page 1 - mw Mr. Crosbie. permit a permit up to five cubic yards in Middle Cove. Salmon Cove in Conception Bay is banned. Northern Bay is banned. Croakers Cove, Carbonear East, one cubic yard is permitted. Carbonear Beach is banned. Near Powells Brook in Carbouear South, banned. Lance Cove, Bell Island,banned. The beach in Bell Island, you can get a permit for twenty cubic yards. ~m. NEARY: Go on. Is that a fact? MR. CROSBIE: In any event, Mr. Speaker, I will not read the whole list. There are twenty pages . . MR. N9LAN: Could we have a copy? MR.

CROSBIE: Yes, well I have got eighteen or twenty copies of this here. So anybody who is interested, it shows the beach, where it is located, whether it is banned to remove any material or whether it is restricted. · 'HR. NEARY: What about Greppes Nest over on Bell Island? MR. CROSBIE: About which? MR. NEARY: What about Greppes Nest? MR. CROSBIE: No, I do not see it mentioned here. But I am sure that most places must be mentioned. And then it shows what the maxiamm permit is,if you can get a permit. MR. NEARY: Would the minister permit a question? MR. CROSBIE: No, because I will not know the answer.

Normally,permits for small quantities will normally be issued promptly. Requ~sts for large quantities aay require a prior inspection. MR. NOLAN: What is the requirement for restoring the beach after you have obtained materials? MR . . CROSBIE: Well there are supposed to be strict requirements. Some beaches you are only allowed to use anovela. You know1 the permit 82't ~

Hay 19, 1976 Tape no. 2816 Page 2- mw Mr. Crosbie. says yo~ can only remove with a hand shovel, and some you are allowed to use a loader. It depends on the beach, and it is supposed to be put back in prpper condition. So anyway, Mr. Speaker, there are eighteen or twenty copies here for any members who are interested, and about 600 beaches are dealt with. OEAL QUESTIONS : MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for Twillingate. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, before Your Honour calls the Oral Questions, and before the House finishes with the Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given may I ask the Government House Leader; (

a) May I expect to get answers in the remaining part of this session, whic h I hear by rumour is to be a couple of weeks. or so, to 218 questions that I have asked,of which I have given notice, and that have appeared .on the Order Paper, to which I have not had answers. I have had answers, including those today, to 230 questions, but I am waiting on answers to 218 more1 Am I likely to get these answers during the remainder of the session?

And if not - and it is now going on six months since I asked them, which is a fair amount of warning or notice - if not, can I be assured that I will get them in a week or two or three after the House closes? - 218 important questions. MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, it is a question perhaps best asked of the individual ministers, but I realize that is diffie\Jlt to do. I can only say this. A lot of questions, as the hon. member says, have been answered. Various ministers have staffs of people working,and some of these answers caanot be ligmtly given.

They have to be thoroughly researched and the answers taken out of the - MR. ROBERTS: The ones where there are Crosbie's statement on government p~licy .

0 May 19, 1976 Tape no. 2816 Page 3- mw MR. WELLS: So they are working on it. I say that quite seriously, and I am hopeful that by the end of this present session that most of the answers will have been given,b~t I cannot guarantee on behalf of the government that any individual minister will be able to get all the answers ready. But the majority of them,I would hope,will be. MR. SMALLWOOD: May I be permitted, Mr. Speaker? I do not know if it is in order for me to say - MR. ROWE: MR. SMALLWOOD: HR. WELLS: Are we on Oral Questions? It is before coming to the Oral Questions. But we are on Oral Questions. MR.

SMALLWOOD: No: HR. SPEAKER: I recognized the han. gentleman for Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood). And the question has come up whether we are ori Oral Questions. Actually when it started I called, Oral Questions. The han. member for Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood) then said, "Before we_get on O't'al Questions." MR. NEARY: Then asked an oral question. MR. SPEAKER: Yes, but I am counting this as Oral Questions. This is in order as Oral Questions. The han. gentleman from Twillingate 01r. Smallwood), I believe,had a supplementary. MR. SMALLWOOD: Well only to thank the han.

Government House Leader, and to tell him that before the House met and before I was a member of this House,! got far more answers and far more promptly than I am. getting them now that I am a member. MR. SPEAKER: The han. Leader of the Opppsition. MR. ROBERTS : Mr. Speaker, there was obviously a moral in that most recent comment. Mr. Speaker, a question 1 plea~e,for the Hinister of Finance in his capacity as President of the Treasury Board. Would

May 19, 1976 Tape no. 2816 Page 4 - mw Mr. Roberts. he say, Mr. Speaker, whether the government have increased the salary of the secretary, equivalent to deputy minister, of the Treasury Board from $34,500 a year, which is the amount shown in the estimates, to $40,000 a year, an increase of $5,500 per annum? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. MR. DOODY: I cannot say that that is absolutely accurate, but there certainly has been an increase from $34,000 on up toward that figure. I cannot pin myself down to that question. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary by the Leader of the Opposition . MR. ROBERTS: Mr.

Speaker, I realize, you know, that it is unreasonable for me to expect him to have these here. Would the minister please table a list showing in respect of his deputy minister, who has had an increase of ' $5,500, the Assistant Deputy Hinister, Revenue, who has had an increase of $4,000, the Assistant Deputy Minister, · Expenditures~ had an increase of $2,400, the Secretary of the Treasury Board has had an increase of $5,500 and any other deputy ministers - I could name a number of others- the date on which the increase was approved and when it became effective? HR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. MR.

DOODY: I would not think that that information could be made available. It comes out in the salary details. }1R, ROBERTS: Nr. Speaker, if I may. I have a further supplementary. The problem is, Sir, that the salary details for all of these four officials I have named are incorrect in that they show the Secretary of the Treasury Board getting $34,500, when in fact he is now being paid $40,000 a year, I am told, on what I believe to be a good authority, an increase of $5,500. So it is not in the salary details. That, Sir, is the problem. That is why I asked for the list.

May 19, 1976 Tape no. 2816 Page 5 - mw MR. DOODY: That is actually what I said. I said I see very little problem with it since they will all come out in the salary details eventually. If not in this one, then in a subsequent one. I did not say that they were in this one. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to put a question to the Minister of Tourism, Sir, and ask the minister what has happened to the Silver Anniversary gift that was given to this Province by the Government of Canada in the way of a Tourist

Interpretation Centre for Port aux Basques in 1974? What has happened to that project? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Tourism. MR. HICKEY: Well, Mr. Speaker, to be very specific with the hon. gentleman, a number of things have happened. Number one, there was quite a delay because we had not confirmation in writing from the federal government that the money was available from the federal government, that the money was available. We had a promise, a word of mouth, sort of, and one does not go and do anything to incur expenses until you have it in writing.

And I am sure the hon. member remembers a meeting with him, and a delegation from Port aux Basques,where this was pointed out. Having gotten that out of the way, and having gotten confirmation in writing from the federal government that money indeed was available, we proceeded in an attempt to get the project underway. We had a drawing which was prepared by Public Works, a proposal for the

Interpretation Centre which took the form of what they call a mamateek. Time had elapsed and we were concerned as to the escalation nf r.nAt so we did a check on that, because not only was the Intepretation Centre for Port aux Basques involved, but there were a number of smaller ones along the highway which was part and package of that programme. We had to make sure how far we would go over the estimate,if indeed we could go over, and what the requirements would be 825J

Nay 19 , 1976 Tape no, 2816 Page 6- .mw Mr. Hickey. from the point of view of provincial funds. And there wa.s the pro.blem of location, and there were a nUIIIPer of views as to location, and I am sure again my han. friend is well versed in that. That matter has now been sorted out and the location will be the site of the Annie Coady That seems to be quite acceptable. At least . my staff tell me that everything is in order with regards to th11-t. The only problem remaining,- and I m.ight say at this point, Mr.

Speaker, that a firm of architects - and I do not recall who -' were appointed to look after this project. We have gone back to them now, because I for one did not l.ike the proposal of a mamateek. I did not, however, make any arbitrary decision just based ~n my own views. Puring a visit to Port aux Basques I had a number of people who had made representation to me, and a nUIIIPet: I 2 ~ ,;

Tape 2817 RR - 1 HR. HICKEY: of other people from other parts of the Province have expressed the same concern. So for that reason I felt that my own views and my own affairs of proceeding with that type of building had some validity. So we have now p,one back to the architect and we have asked him for a couple of other proposals in terms of designs. I am told that this should not take too long. My mm staff, the enp:ineer in the development

section of tourist services,have provided the information,! understand. As soon as this is done we will make a final decision as to the type of building, design, etc., and then we should be ready to call tenders. In any event I think I can say to my hon. friend that the pcoject will eventually and finally get off the ground hopefully within thirty days. This is what we are pushing for. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. The hon. member for LaPoile. l<R. NEARY: A supplementary, }~r. Speaker.

What the minister is sayinF; then, sending it to the architects to have it redesigned will not delay the specifications and the calling of tenders and the awarding of the contract for the tourist information centre, that the actual construction will get underway early Summer, ~7ithin a few weeks, say? HR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Tourism. MR. JliCICF.Y: Hr. Speaker, I am hopeful and we are pushing for a final decision to be nble to call a tender within thirty days.

I think I have to sny in all fairness to the hon. member that it is my understanding,and certainly it is my understanding simply based on - I have not asked anyone this - hut it is my understanding based on what I know about calling tenders,that we could not call a tender now even though we do not see any great change in cost and we do not see any great change in terms of size of the building.

But I do not think that it wou~d be fair. indeed I da not think it would be possible,to call a tender and expect a contractor to give a price without having a fair amount of information in terms of design, because the design obviously 1~ould affect the cost and certainly would affect the price that the contractor would ~uote. Therefore it is my view that we oz-­'"' :i ,)

'fay l'l, J 07fi . 'IR. TITC:KF.Y: Tape 2817 ~p. - 2 w"il 1 hnve to lvait until we make a final decision as to the desi11:n. Then "'e are all ready to call. a tender. HR. 1\fFARY: A further suppl.ell'e>ntary, ~~r. Speaker. HR. · SPEAKER : A further supplementary. The hon. member for LaPoile. liT~. ~WARY: The minister indicated that the new tourist interpreration centre in the gateway town of NeHfoundland would he on the site of the Annie Coady. Hill the minister tell the House if the Annie Coady will also he> left on that site? HR. SPEAKER: '!R • ITI CKF:Y: The hon. Ninister of Tourism. }fr.

Speaker, I Hould doubt very much that it would be left on the site. I..Jhat is to become of i. t I cannot answer. It is a pertinent question. 1 "il1 certainly take it as notice and find out from my staff as to what they suggest to be done with it. 'IR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South. HR. J. NOLA.'if: Mr.

Speaker, a question for - and possibly this may be answered in two parts ,by both the }finister of Tourism,who I believe is now acting :linister of Provincial Affairs,and possibly, maybe for further el;thoration, by the Ninister of Transportation because it refers to a meeting that apparently was held today concerning a construction project, a housing development in fact, on Topsail P.oad ~~est of Park-Le. A notice appeared in the paper six weeks ago inviting comments on the development hy the council of Paradise.

I understand that one letter~and one letter only was written concerning that,and that was written by me,asking about if 50'1 homes, for example, are built what is the situation on traffic on the Topsail Road which is already severe, the sewerage problem that obv1ously will be there,and how it will be handled, the schooling and so on.

Althoup,h T understand that the town of Conception Bay in whose jurisdiction it is not,incidentally 1 municipally, but apparently they had a meeting wj th the ministers concernerl,or two ministers this morning ,and I am wondering ~•hat information they can provide regarding that project? HR • SPEAKER : The hon. minister. IIR. HICKEY: I can ?,ive the hon. gentleman some answers to the portion of the question that applies to me. 82:ifJ

'fay 19, 1976. Tape Z817 RR - 3 t!R. NOLAN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I .1ust cannot hear the minister respondin g. There is too much noise in the Rouse. HR . lUCKEY: ~tr. Speaker, I was saying that I will attempt to pt"ovide some answers to the portion of the question that applies to my department and also to the Department of Provincial Affairs and Environment . First of all,

>lay 19, 1976 Tape 281R IB-1 IT:. lliC.KEY: .as ~!inister of Tourism I can inform my han. friend. that we have plans for the area of Topsail Beach as I have indicated to him and as he is well alvare.

From that point of view I have to take the position that there :l.s no way that I could see approving of or allowing,certainly without the strongest representation to the people, Whoever they might be with regards to the draining of sewage and based on that, no matter how pure or how little pollution might well be in it having come from a sewa~e treatment plant, i.nto a r:l.ver which eventually ends up running into Topsail, into the water at Topsail Beach. The reasons for that are quite obvious. l'r. Speaker, as I said we have plans to develop that area.

It is a very fine area and attracts a ~reat number of people for a fairly large season of the year. One could only assume that there wouJcl alwayl'l he the threat of pollution and always a danger, bP.cause nl J :1 t would require ~rould he for the sewerage system to break clown. So from that point of view we would be opposed. to that. From the point of view of the environment aspects,directly having met '~ith the people involved I have been in touch with the l'ltaff in the environment

section and I have asked them for a report as t.o ,one, if permits have been granted; two, what considerations have been g;lven tn the matter that I have just alluded to; and also "'hat 11l ternat:lves there are and what changes in cost that might be involved ,,,j th re?,arcls to the contractor who proposes to build the homes. It :1 ~ natural that a construct:l.on company would be conscious of cost,ancl ~o for that reason I would like to see the difference in cost as to one system versus the other • . But :In short, }lr.

Speaker, from my point of view I cannot ""e the project r,<'ing ahead "'ith the drainage going into the river that runs throuF;h Topsail Beach. ~"R. NOLAN: ~r. Speaker, a supplementary. And just as a matter of information,hopefully to the minister,! understand that while it was the original ~ntention to have,one, a sewage treatment plant and running

"'"Y 1'l, 1976 Tape 2818 IB-2 'lB..

NOLA.~: into the river that he has outlined and very ri.ghtly so, that since they have taken another look at it - and I believe the sewage treatment plant ~~ill be located in another ar.ea now, up around maybe somewhere close to the steel mill in Octagon or something like that- but -that was the latest information I heard. ~ow the other side of the thing that I addressed to the !' inister of Transportation is, if there is a development of 500 homes, and if in the :lnit1al stages 1t is going to be 150 homes,this is going to add a considerable traffic flow there in an already very difficult area,as T am sure he well knows.

The people involved in some instances !'ur.gest that there is going to be a road from ~'anuels Bridge up to the access roa~. True. That is fine. But when? So I am just wonderinp; what the minister's approach to this particular development is :Insofar as he kno~J s about it at the moment, the Hinister of (ransportation. 'MP. ~PFMF.l': The hon. ~!inister of Transportation and Communications. 1"'1'. ~·cwr,AN: l'r. Speaker, the meeting this morning was with the Conception Bay council and my colleague, the ?!inister of Tourism and acting Vinjster of the Environment and myself met with them.

They were Mostly concerned "<71th the pollution potential. Of course ~1 e are concerned as a department tvith the increased volume of traff:l .c it will mean in the area. Looking at the fact that this year we w:lll be carryinp. out surveys for the Conception Bay by-pass to take the load off the olcl Conception Bay highway, well.,that is only an engineering survey to be carriec1 out this Fall and lUnter, hopefully completely hy next Spr:l .ng. Then of course we are looking at the Conception B~y access road down to Vanuels Bridge from the highway.

Tlut that f s only enf!::lneer:lng work. 1Je have done the engineering work on the other access,hut that depends on what assistance we obtain from Ottawa hefore tVe can commit ourselves to carrying out that work. So in the meantime the old Conception Bay Highway, the capacity right no<>•, I ~orould say, is limited. 1\e are concerned ovel' the increase in the volume of traffic. r' . SPEAJ<Ji:R : The hon. the member for Rellevu~

Mav 19, l'H6 Tape No. 2819 NM - 1 ' IR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health under whose department Vital Statistics come.

I am, ~mndering if there is any legislation proposed with regard to the issuing of birth certificates throughout this Province1 T think it is fair to say that there are probablv hundreds of people throughout the Province, people,of course,sixty, sixty-five years of a.ge who want to get theit birth certificates, They have never had one, They want to get them for the purpose of old age pension and what have you,and under the present legislation it ts almost imnossible in some instances to get a birth certificate, I am tmnder:l.np; if probably any consideration has been given to changing legislation regarding that? 11R_-__:'lPF.J\!<.f::.R.= The hon.

Hinister of Health. MR._COL~I~_;_ I do not know if legislation has got too much to do with it_ I presume what the han. member refers to is the difficulty experienced by some elderlv neople in 6btaining a birth certificate from the Registry by virtue of the fact that the birth was not registered by the clergyman~or whoever,in the church at the place of birth. There is a procedure which can be follo~Jed in terms of obtaining affidavits from people who would know, would remember oi the birth. Sometimes that poses problems because they ta;lght have passed on,but that procedure seems to 'mrk reasonably well.

I have been made aware of several cases in the not· too distant past whereby that procedure has been followed and the certificate has heen issued. If the han. member has some specific cases I would certainly be interested in discussing it with him and see if we can bring it about. I know it is very important because in order for a person to obtain his old age pension sometimes a more definite proof of birth is required than one might have. But there is a procedure for dealing with that. MR_ SPEAKER: --- - ---- A supplementary. Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am well aware of the procedure R2li0

'1av 19, 1976 TApe No. 2Rlq NM- 2 MR. CALLAN: and so on hut under the present legislation or rules or what have you,an affidavit is no good. Mr. Dewey, who is the Registrar, on a couple of occasions I have been after a birth certificate now for one gentleman for the past three months and I cannot get it,so perhaps the supplementary question should he will the minister see to it that this gentleman gets his birth certificate under present legislation? MR. _ _gQ_L!ciNS: Hr. Speaker, I will certainly do everything in my power if the han. member will let me have the name. ~m. SPEAKER: A supplementary. 'lR.

SMALLIWOD: A supplementary to the han. minister. Can he tell us when it became necessary by law,and in fact became the practice, for all births to he registered in the Itegistry of Birth, 'larrinr,es and neath~,and from what date mav people be reasonably sure they can get certificates of their birth? Is there a starting date after ~•hich all births are registered in the department of the government dealing with that kind of thing, or how far back must you go before you have to turn to clergymen, and where do you leave off getting the information in the government and then have to go beyond to the clergy?

Is there a cut off date? ~m. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. - ··-- - -·----- '1R .. _CQ!.._L_~N§_: Mr. Speaker, I t.auld undertake notice of that but I certainly will undertake to get the information. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Eagle River. >ffi. STRACI!AN: -- -·- --- - Mr. Speaker, I could not reply to the }1inister of 1Te:1lth during his reply · in support of the petition from the han. member for Naskaupi (Hr.

Goudie) ,but I would like to phrase it in the form of a q".Jestion 0 He implied that I t~as naive to regard the information from the newspapers as being factual,so I would like the minister to reply whether he did actually have any consultation with the Town Council of Happy Valley - Goose nay concerning the move of the Paddon Memorial Hospital? MR. ROT\ERTS: In what form was it taken? --- --- -- S2fll

Tape No. 2819 NM- 3 ?IlL_ .S!.~CJi.fl!!.: My i nformation comes from the horse 1 s mouth and not from the newsp2pers . MR .. £0~LINS: Mr. Speaker, I was not aware that Reverend Ruckle had onythi ng to do with the Town Council in Rappy Vall e y . I think the hon . member used the name of Reverend Buckl e on tvo o r t hree occasions,and Reveren d Buckle happens to be t he Chai.rman of the Realth Council i n that area .

There have been meetings 1~ith Reveren d Jluckle. l~i th regard to the Town Council,w e have endeavoured to set up meetings on two or thre e occasions : and I suppose for some rea son and those people are busy men and have not heen able to come to St. John 1 s and have not been able to arrange a meeti ng otherwise until now. Buton the llth. we are going · in. ThPr e h~ bee n 82 !i ~ ,.

}lay 19, 1976 Tape 2820 PK- 1 no meeting with the Town Council. But the hon. member made specific reference to Reverend Buckle w~o is the Chairman of the Health Council and we have had meetings with him. MR. STRACHAN: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: -------- Is this a supplementary? ~m. STRACHAN: -------- YP.s. Mr. Speaker, I was referring to the HaJ)Ipy Valley-Goose Bay Town Council and the Health Committee. Did the minister ever request a meeting with the Happy Valley Town Council1 MR. COLLINS: Yes, Mr. Speaker. The han. member for Lapoile (Mr.

Neary) followed hy the han. member for Bay Verte-White Bay (Mr. Rideout). HR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I realize this is rather a broad question that I am putting to the Hinister of Fisheries, Sir, but it is a very important question, a very historic day in the history I suppose of Newfoundland and Canada, and I am referring to the document that was signed in Russia today between the han. Hr. LeBlanc, the Federal Minister of Fisheries and his counterpart in Russia in connection with the 200 mile management zone. Would the minister indicate to the House tJhat this historic document will mean to Newfoundland? MR.

SPEAKER: The han. Hinis ter. of Fisheries. HON. I'. CARTER: ~!r. Speaker, I am not able to answer the han. mP.mber's question because regretfully the Minister of Fisheries in 0ttawa has not seen fit to take this Province, certainly not the Minister of Fisheries in the Province,into his confidence with respect to the terms and the contents of that agreement, but I am asstming it is one of the bilateral agreements that the minister is talking ahout. I think he has already signed one with Poland or he is about to, or I believe he •lready has with Norway, and I believe Portup,al.

I think today he is signing one with Russia, and I presume this will be an agreement whereby it is going to be agreed to by both parties, that that country will be permitted to fish certain species off our Continental Shelf that are determined to be surplus to Canada's needs. But the exact wording of the agreement or its H 2 \) J

May l'l, 1976 Tape 2820 PK - 2 Mr. W. Carter : contents or its possible implications for the Province, I am afraid I am unable to comment. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. Would the minister indicate in any way, shape or form- I realize the minister has not been taken into the confidence of the Federal Mini s ter of Fisheries for some strange reaso~ - is this a forerunner to the 200 mile limit ', or will this in actual fact be the 200~ This is the impression I am getting from news reports that this is a 200 mile management zone.

Is that the same thing, you know, that we are tryinp. to achieve it for~ MR • H. CARTER : Mr. Speaker, I understand this is probably a forerunner to the official declaration of the 200 mile limit. I think this is the Federal Minister's ambition. But this is not it yet, We are not satisfied ~iith this. MR. W. CARTER: No.

I think this is the Federal Minister's plan to maybe negotiate bilateral agreements with the fishing nations of the world who frequent our waters,in anticipation of a formal declaration of ~ 200 mile limit, which we hope will be certainly no later than January 1, 1977, and I hope the Minister of Fisheries in Ottawa will keep that date in mind as well. MR. NEARY: Well,a supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: One further _supplementary. MR.

NEARY: 1~ould the minister indicate then that the ~ew agreement signed in Russia today now opens up the way for foreign countries to land their fish catches in Newfoundland and have them processed in Newfoundland fish plants' does the minister have that information? The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. H. CARTER: No, Mr. Speaker, that agreement will not open up the way for that because,as the hon. member knows I am sure 1 thare will be amendments required to the Federal tloastal waters, I think it is called The Coastal Waters Protection Act or Fisheries Act, but certain amendments will be necessary. 82!14

~lay 19, 1976 Tape 2820 PK- 3 MR. NEARY: But: LeBlanc said today it would. MR. !.-'.:..CARTER: Well maybe he has already made the changes, but my understanding of it is that under the existing laws of Canada that a foreign nation is unable, is not permitted to land its fish sto cks in our port for processing. Indeed I think if the minister wanted to anfow~e that act to the letter that it is doubtful ~ a ibip, if a foreign ship, for example , could even enter the har bour without special permi .ssion from the Mini.eter of Fisheries in O t:tm~a. ~IR. NEARY: When will we get this agreement that was signed today?

Hhen will the mi nister r.et a copy of t.hat? ~l'/ · CARTER: I am hoping, Mr. Speaker, I understand that even thour.h the Government of Newfoundland is not represente d at the meetings in Russia - ~IR . m\ARY: We s hould be. We should be; of course, we should. But I have my reliable sources of information, and I am hoping that. by tomorrow thi s time I will have t.he contents of that agreement. MJl . NEARY: Will the minister table it in the Rouse when he gets it? MR . t.l.

CARTER: I am not sure if it will be right for me to table it, and certainl y 1 will be very hapry to answer any questions on it and reve al what informa t ion I can gather in the meantime. "2 f ,.. l.' .) . 1

May 19, 1976,