May 2, 2006 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLV No. 14

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the

hon. the Member for the District of Windsor-Springdale; the hon. the Member for

the District of Burgeo & LaPoile; the hon. the Member for the District of

Mount Pearl; the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave; and the hon.

the Member for the District of Placentia & St. Mary's.

The Chair recognizes the hon. Member for the District of Windsor-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to rise in this hon. House today to congratulate a constituent

of my District of Windsor-Springdale. Mr. Kelvin Kelleher has been a great

influence on the district for many years. He retired in 1995, at which time he

was principal of Indian River Elementary.

Kel started to chronicle young life in rural Newfoundland as a memento to his

two sons, to let them know the games they played and the things that were

important to a young person at that time.

I have had the pleasure of knowing Kel for many years now, and his love for

rural Newfoundland is apparent in this book for sure.

Ed Smith states that Kel's book Base to Bay is a good read, and I am

sure all rural Newfoundlanders will enjoy this trip down memory lane.

I would like all members of this hon. House to join with me in congratulating

Kel on keeping the history of rural Newfoundland alive for many generations to

come.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Bruce II Piranha Swim Club and participants

for raising a significant amount of donations to be forwarded to the Dr. H.

Bliss Murphy Cancer Care Centre.

The Swim for Hope Marathon was held on March 17 at the Bruce II Sports Centre

in Port aux Basques. This annual event raises money for the Cancer Care

Foundation and participating Newfoundland and Labrador Swim Clubs.

Mr. Speaker, the Dr. H. Bliss Murphy Cancer Care Foundation is a registered

charitable organization whose mission is to develop, steward and distribute

charitable resources to enhance treatment and supportive care programs for

cancer patients, fund local cancer research initiatives and provide continuing

education opportunities for staff of the Cancer Foundation and affiliated cancer

programs in this Province.

Over the last two years, the Foundation has purchased new chemotherapy

recliners, chemotherapy pumps, ice machine and water cooler for patients at the

Cancer Centre in Corner Brook. During the last two years, the Bruce II Piranha

Swim Club have raised $10,000 for this worthy cause.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join with me in congratulating the Bruce II

Piranha's contribution to the Dr. H. Bliss Murphy Cancer Care Centre.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I would like to pay tribute to a very distinguished gentleman, Mr.

Darrin Reid.

Each year, the City of Mount Pearl, in conjunction with the Kinsmen Club,

hosts a banquet in which they select someone from the community as Citizen of

the Year. Mr. Speaker, to be nominated as Citizen of the Year is a reward in

itself. It is a reflection of a person's commitment to enhancing the lives of

others.

Mr. Reid is an active volunteer with the Mount Pearl Special Olympics. He was

selected as Male Coach of the Year in the City of Mount Pearl for the years

2001, 2004 and 2005 for his involvement in this association by coaching the

Special Olympics Floor Hockey Program, the Special Olympics Swim Team, and

developing the Special Olympic general athletic program. His support to the

Special Olympic Program is greatly appreciated and acknowledged by many. He was

also nominated for the National Award of Coach of the Year for his involvement

with the Special Olympics.

Mr. Speaker, Darrin has dedicated countless hours by volunteering his time

coaching youth at major events. He is an active supporter in many events and

organizations within Mount Pearl and the surrounding area since 1985.

Mr. Speaker, I commend Mr. Reid for his exemplary volunteer service, and I

ask all members of this House to join with me in congratulating him on his

recent award as Mount Pearl Citizen of the Year for 2005.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the students of Ascension Collegiate in Bay

Roberts who participated in the forty-first Graduation of Ascension Collegiate.

On Friday, April 28, 2006, I was honoured to attend the forty-first

graduation with those students. Mr. Speaker, the day began with a prom service

held at the Salvation Army Citadel in Bay Roberts, under the direction of

Captains Roxanne and Terry Feltham.

Following the service, the prom moved to the Bay Arena, where dinner was

served to 850 guests followed by the presentation of 221 graduates.

Tahnee Edmunds and Nicholas Giles were chosen as Prom King and Queen for the

year. Their theme was, Today's Dreams are Tomorrow's Realities. I trust, Mr.

Speaker, that their 221 individual dreams will become a reality right here in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join me in congratulating all graduates and

to say well done to the teaching staff at Ascension Collegiate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Placentia & St.

Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. F. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to St. Catherine's Academy School

community in St. Catherine's, St. Mary's Bay. St. Catherine's Academy is a

small school by most standards, having a total student population of 197 from

Kindergarten to Level III, but it is a great example of big things coming in

small packages. The school has a legacy of providing good athletes but this

year, Mr. Speaker, it has surpassed all previous standards.

On April 1, the senior girls basketball team took home the 3-A Provincial

Girls Championships. In a small school with only eighty-four high school

students, this was a great achievement.

But, on top of that, Mr. Speaker, the boys team went out and won the 4-A

Provincial Championships, emblematic of high school basketball supremacy in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

The boys basketball team were also winners of the Elite Eight Hall of Fame

Cup held at Memorial University in February. One of the players, Steve

Singleton, all six-foot-eight of him, is the only high school student to be

selected for the under nineteen Newfoundland Cavs team, which is representing

Canada this summer at the Spalding Youth Basketball Tournament in Hawaii, a

top-drawer event attended in the past by several NBA prospects.

Mr. Speaker, I am looking forward to visiting St. Catherine's Academy this

Thursday evening to participate in the ceremonies raising the banners depicting

school basketball excellence in this Province.

I ask this hon. House to join with me in congratulating St. Catherine's

Academy on their great achievements this year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to congratulate Grand Falls-Windsor

residents Ignatius Power and Janice Duder, who were inducted into the

Newfoundland and Labrador Bowling Hall of Fame at the ceremony held in Corner

Brook on Saturday, April 1.

Ignatius Power joined his first league in 1946 and has continued his bowling

career to the present. One of his fondest memories was being present at the

final game ever played at the Grand Falls Club in 1958. The seventy-nine year

old inductee has bowled many 300 games and 700-plus triples. Up until 1997, Mr.

Power carried a 225 average.

Janice Duder has bowled since the early 1950s and has served on the Grand

Falls-Windsor Bowling Association for more than fifteen years where she has held

every position except Treasurer. Ms Duder has also spent time as a coach in the

Youth Bowling Council where she says she has given the most enjoyment.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Five Pin Bowlers Association announced earlier

in March that Duder - bowler/builder - and Power - bowler - would be inducted

into the Newfoundland and Labrador Bowling Hall of Fame, and Mr. Power and Ms

Duder were honoured for their lifetime of bowling achievements - the Province's

highest bowling honour.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating Janice Duder and Ignatius Power.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to inform this hon. House of a wonderful and invaluable program

offered by a non-profit organization in our Province.

Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador is a volunteer based organization that

assists in the location and recovery of missing and exploited children, and

provides assistance and support to families who have experienced the trauma of a

missing child.

Mr. Speaker, last year 275 children and youth were reported missing in our

Province - a staggering number that certainly will come as a surprise to many

people, as it did to me personally. When I was informed by the Executive

yesterday, I had no idea that there would be that kind of a number, 275. So that

is basically two-thirds of the year there is a missing child in this Province.

Yesterday, I had the privilege of signing a proclamation for Child Find

Newfoundland and Labrador recognizing the month of May as Missing and Exploited

Children's Month in our Province.

I also discussed with members of Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador their

work, the challenges they face and the successes they have had. I am very

pleased to note, that they have joined us today in the public gallery.

Mr. Speaker, last year there were more than 10,000 children and youth

involved in a variety of Child Find programs, such as safety education. Child

Find Newfoundland and Labrador also provides a twenty-four hour emergency 1-800

number, customs and border alerts and support to law enforcement agencies, along

with numerous other important services.

As part of this month of awareness, Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador, in

concurrence with its partners across the country, will conduct its thirteenth

Annual Green Ribbon of Hope Campaign and will ask people throughout Canada to

wear a Green Ribbon of Hope to draw attention to missing and exploited children.

As well, May 25 will be the twentieth Annual National Missing Children's Day

in Canada.

The Green Ribbon of Hope Campaign started in St. Catherine's, Ontario by

students and faculty of Holy Cross Secondary School after their classmate and

friend Kristen French was abducted and murdered.

Mr. Speaker, our children represent our hopes and dreams for the future and

yet, in many respects, they are the most vulnerable members of our community.

Collectively, it is our responsibility to protect our children, which is why it

is important that the Green Ribbon of Hope Campaign is one that should be

endorsed by every person in our Province. Child Find is an organization that

deserves our support, as they work to educate children and adults alike about

prevention and safety for children everywhere.

I am proud, on behalf of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador, to proclaim May as Missing and Exploited

Children's Month and I ask all members of the House of Assembly to join me in

wearing a Green Ribbon of Hope in support of Child Find Newfoundland and

Labrador and its important endeavours throughout our Province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to see that government has proclaimed May as Missing and

Exploited Children's Month in support of Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador.

Certainly, my colleagues and myself on this side of the House are pleased to be

associated with wearing a green ribbon today in support of this organization.

Mr. Speaker, they are a group of individuals who are, no doubt, there at the

most traumitizing and the most devastating times in a parents life. I do not

think anyone can fully understand what many of those parents go through when

they have a child who is missing, no matter what the time frame may be, minutes,

hours, days, only those that have experienced it. Having the comfort of

volunteers and an organization like this, that is there on the frontlines to

help them through these times is, no doubt, very invaluable in our society.

Mr. Speaker, I know the work of the volunteers of this organization. I have a

friend who has served with Child Find Newfoundland and Labrador for some time. I

know that it takes dedication and it takes commitment to be able to offer

yourself in support of a cause like this and to be able to be committed and

dedicated to it.

Mr. Speaker, we are pleased to, not only acknowledge this particular month as

Missing and Exploited Children's Month and support Child Find Newfoundland and

Labrador, but we also want to encourage many people out there in our Province to

get involved in programs that offer the protection of our children, whether it

is a neighbourhood watch group, whether it is having young people in your

community do training, such as babysitting courses and so on, that are going to

be working around children in our communities and in our playgrounds and so on.

I just want to encourage people to become involved and to say to the

government today, that we will certainly wear this ribbon in support of such a

tremendous cause in our communities and in our Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and again I thank the Premier for

an advance copy of his statement.

I think it is sad to say, Mr. Speaker, that we need to designate such a month

as this in our Province or in our country. It should not have to be that way.

There are many things that are disturbing about this, when we know that our

children are being exploited, being abducted, and thinking that their only

option is to run away from whatever they feel is threatening them at any

particular time. I think it speaks to a greater issue as well, Mr. Speaker, and

that is the social problems that we need to deal with as a society to make life

safer for all of us and our children included.

I want to also, Mr. Speaker, thank the workers and the volunteers who are

involved with Child Watch and Child Find. I know it must be very stressful for

them at times, but I do offer our thanks to them for taking the time out of

their lives to deal with problems such as this, because they are very important

indeed.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further Statements by Ministers.

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am extremely pleased today to inform my hon. colleagues of a

significant accomplishment for Stephenville Primary School. It was recently

announced that Stephenville Primary School has received $150,000 from Indigo

Books', For the Love of Reading Initiative.

This program is designed to promote a life-long love of reading and learning

by offering children access to new books and materials, regardless of their

social or economic status.

Mr. Speaker, several months ago, Christine Manuel, Vice-Principal of

Stephenville Primary, submitted an application to Indigo on behalf of the

school. The application included details on literacy initiatives at Stephenville

Primary, ideas for new initiatives, information on the school library and any

community information that would be of benefit in the decision-making process.

Last week, Mr. Speaker, Ms Manual received a call from the CEO of Indigo

Books telling her that the application from Stephenville Primary stood out and

that due to the creative and innovative literacy initiatives presented, the

school is one of ten - and the first ever in Newfoundland and Labrador - to

receive this grant.

For the next three years, the school will received $50,000. Forty-five

thousand dollars must be spent on literacy initiatives. The remaining $5,000 can

be used for anything else the school deems necessary.

Literacy is so important to our individual success. It is very encouraging to

see such commitment to literacy and learning in our schools, and it is wonderful

to see the efforts of Stephenville Primary recognized in this way. I would also

like to commend Indigo Books for an initiative that can make a very real

difference right in our classrooms.

When contacted, Mr. Speaker, Gerald Morgan, the principal of Stephenville

Primary, said, "There is so much we can do with this money. It is

definitely an excellent boost for literacy in our school, and for the whole

Stephenville area."

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of this hon. House, I offer my congratulations to Ms

Manuel and best wishes to Stephenville Primary. They now have the welcomed task

of figuring out how to spend $150,000 to promote literacy for our students.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for a copy of her Ministerial Statement and to

say, on behalf of members of the Official Opposition, congratulations to the

Stephenville Primary School, and in particular to Ms Christine Manuel, the

vice-principal, for having the initiative to apply for the funding.

I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that we on this side of the House fully

support such programs, and a former program that was administered by the former

Administration, I should say, the Read and Succeed Program, was a well

thought-out program. We want to congratulate this school for having the

initiative to apply for this funding. I guess as the principal, Mr. Morgan, has

said, they are looking forward to seeing where this will make a difference to

the students, not only in their particular school but in the Stephenville area.

I find it a little humourous, I guess, at the end, but I notice the minister

changed one of the words there, because on mine it says: They now have the

enviable task of figuring out how to spend the money, the $150,000.

I am sure they will find a way, but, if they cannot, there are many other

schools and libraries in this Province that would be only too pleased to be able

to take

part in it, but I think it is a good initiative and hopefully other

schools will take part and apply for funding similar to what this school did.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, would like to offer congratulations to Stephenville Primary School on

winning this award, and the teacher, Christine Manuel, vice-principal, for

taking the initiative also in applying for the award.

Mr. Speaker, this is very important for Stephenville Primary, and I think it

also speaks to the issue of illiteracy in this Province and the need for

government to allocate and spend more money on the public libraries in this

Province and in the school libraries, because, as I say, the illiteracy rate in

this Province is far too high and it is through eliminating illiteracy that

people have a greater ability to fend for themselves in life and be more

productive.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, last April, FPI announced its intentions of closing the plant in

Fortune, and since that time we have heard government talk about a number of

scenarios that they could or could not do with regard to getting that plant

reopened. Last week, the Premier even went so far as to say that he would

purchase a quota, or he could purchase a quota, for the Barry Group of Companies

if they were to take over that plant in Fortune.

I ask the Premier: Even if you can purchase quota, why didn't you buy one

for Harbour Breton, and why did you wait for twelve months before making that

statement about buying one for Fortune?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman opposite may not be

aware that we put out all options for Harbour Breton. One of those options at

that particular point in time, apart from everything else that we were doing,

and even in negotiating with FPI whereby we brought - we asked and we brought,

actually, the request from Harbour Breton up from $1.4 million to ten times

that. We actually were prepared to have a package of about $14 million that was

on the table. Included in that package was a provision of funds to buy a quota

for Harbour Breton. That was actually on the table.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier stated publicly that he has a significant problem

with the management of FPI, that he believes that it is the management of FPI

that is at the root of the problems we are experiencing in towns where that

company operates.

I say to the Premier: If you really believe this to be so, why are you

entertaining a proposal from this same management group at FPI that will see the

company divided and that group of individuals that you say are at the root of

the problem taking control of FPI's most valued asset, that being the

marketing and secondary processing division? If that is the case, why are you

allowing that proposal to even see the light of day when you consider that is

exactly what that management committee has wanted for a long period of time?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman knows that when this

group took over, the board of FPI, it was on their watch. It was while they were

there. It was during a period when they were not interested enough to ask any

questions. Even during the debate last June, the FPI debate on the Income Trust,

the hon. gentleman said, with regard to the board of directors: I took them at

their word when they wanted to take over the board of directors, and there was

little we could do to stop them.

He basically acknowledged that he acquiesced, he stood back and he allowed

these people to take over the board of directors. Now he is trying to shift all

of the blame on us. You know, they are hiding behind the fact and they are not

being honest with the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. This is, in fact, a

public company. This particular company is controlled by the Legislature. There

is an FPI Act in the Legislature, but this company is owned by a group of

shareholders. This company is not just owned by John Risley and Armoyan. This is

owned by the moms, the pops, the Joes, the Janes, the Bills and the Marys out

there who have invested in this company. We have a duty, as a government, to act

responsibly. We cannot just be interventionists. We cannot just go in and take

over control of a company, because if we do that, there is not another company

that is ever going to want to do business in this Province. So, we have to act

responsibly. We are trying to exercise all options, keep all options open, and

that is exactly what we are doing. But don't all of a sudden try and turn back

the problems of the management in this company on us because you were the ones

who put them there in the first place.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Premier, we told that Board of Directors of FPI that we were

going to hold them to their commitments, and we did hold them to their

commitments.

I also say to the Premier, FPI did not close the plant in Harbour Breton

under our watch. They did not close the plant in Fortune under our watch. They

did not talk about laying off half of the population in Marystown under our

watch. It has been under your watch, I say to the Premier, that all those things

have happened. You should be ashamed to say that you have not done anything for

the people in those communities.

Mr. Speaker, a simple question to the Minister of Fisheries: Can the minister

tell us when FPI will be charged for illegally shipping unprocessed fish out of

this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition talks

about this watch and the other watch. When was the FPI plant in Charleston

closed, Mr. Speaker? Whose watch was that? What about Trepassey, Williams

Harbour, Bridgeport, Port Albert, Great Harbour Deep, Cow Head, Rose Blanche,

Flower's Cove and on and on it goes, and they talk about that kind of an

approach.

I answered that question in the House yesterday. I told the Leader of the

Opposition yesterday -

MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, if there is something the matter with - if he

has indigestion from lunch - the hon. gentleman for Bellevue is making some

awful moans over there.

Mr. Speaker, I told the hon. Leader of the Opposition yesterday that due

process is being followed and when due process is completed, he and everybody

else will know what the result will be.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister, we all know you live in the past, but it is a little

bit too distant past for me because the plants that you just mentioned closing

with FPI happened long before I was elected, I say to the minster.

Mr. Speaker, traditionally, shrimp harvested in the Gulf of St. Lawrence had

to be processed on the Northern Peninsula. Today, with shrimp plants closed in

Anchor Point and Black Duck Cove, the Barry Group of Companies is trucking

shrimp from the Northern Peninsula to Clarenville for processing.

I ask the minister: What impact will that have on employment levels in that

general area of the Northern Peninsula and what are you prepared to do to

prevent this from continuing?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, as a student of history, I believe it is always

right and proper to remind ourselves of the past. The hon. Leader of the

Opposition, while he might not have been a member of the Legislature, worked for

the then Minister of Fisheries though, Mr. Speaker, as his Executive Assistant

when those things that I referred to were dealt with.

Mr. Speaker, in terms of transporting fish around the Province, the FPI plant

in Port au Choix is buying shrimp, it has been in operation. I do not know if it

is operating today, but people do have the right to buy and transport fish from

various locations around this Province with the exception, I think, perhaps of

some restrictions in Southern Labrador, and that has been the case for many,

many years, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the minister would be more intent on listening rather than trying to

phrase an answer to another question, he would have listened to the question. I

asked him about the plants in Anchor Point and Black Duck Cove, not the plant in

Port au Choix, I say to the minister, and it was always the case that shrimp

harvested in the Gulf remained on the Northern Peninsula. When did they change

that?

Mr. Speaker, my final question to the Minister of Fisheries. Last week he

travelled to Ottawa to meet with his federal counterpart, Mr. Loyola Hearn, the

federal Minister of Fisheries, to discuss fisheries related issues. I ask the

minister: While you were there, did you have an opportunity to discuss the early

retirement package with him? If so, what was the federal minister's response?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, it is awful difficult sometimes, in listening

to the Leader of the Opposition, to try to differentiate between faction and

fact, or fiction and fact - excuse me.

AN HON. MEMBER: The factions are over there.

MR. RIDEOUT: So, the factions are over there. Where is Jim today anyway,

Mr. Speaker?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. RIDEOUT: Is Jim still pulling out the knives today?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Friday is the ultimatum day, Mr. Speaker. We will all know

on Friday.

Anyway, to answer the hon. gentleman's question, after I was able to

decipher and get rid of some of the political rhetoric in the question - to

answer his question, I did have an opportunity to discuss an early retirement

package with the Newfoundland regional minister when I was in Ottawa and, as we

speak, there is a federal-provincial officials group still working on that

possibility.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Premier stated that he had sent a letter to the

four partners involved in the Hebron-Ben Nevis project outlining what he

understood the position to be of the Province and the position of the oil

companies when the recent negotiations broke down. To ensure openness and

transparency, will the Premier be prepared to table that letter in the House of

Assembly so that everyone in the Province can understand what the positions were

when these negotiations broke off and why this project is on hold indefinitely?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Actually, Mr. Speaker, I was interested to hear last

night, as I listened to the debate, the Leader of the Opposition indicate that

he was pretty well prepared to give it away. He was talking last night, and

during the debate, that he thinks we should get it done because the St. John's

business community is protesting and, really, as long as we do a deal he will do

a deal. No, there is not no deal for him; he will do a deal under any

circumstances, just like they did Voisey's Bay, just like they were going to

do the Lower Churchill. He basically said last night - on one side of his mouth

he was talking about saving rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and on the other

side of his mouth he was talking about getting a deal done for the St. John's

business communities.

That is the kind of nonsense that they get on with over there, Mr. Speaker.

In answer to your question -

MR. REID: How do you know? You weren't here.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: I was listening to your every word. I had my sleeves

rolled up; I was working up in the office. I was listening to you. Watching you

lose your mind down here is what I was watching you do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: In answer to your question, there is a confidentiality

agreement, basically. When the document was sent to us, it was marked

confidential. As I have said before, if, in fact, the other parties are

agreeable to release these, we have absolutely no problem. One thing we do not

want to do is violate that particular agreement.

It was my understanding that the leader of your party was going to have a

meeting with Chevron. If that, in fact, took place and they were, in fact, as

lead partner in that consortium, prepared to indicate to him or to the party

that, in fact, these were the terms of the possible agreement or if, in fact,

that document could be released, we would only be too delighted to release it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair requests members on both sides of the House, those asking questions

and those who are giving answers, to keep the

preambles shorter so that we can

get more questions asked during the process.

The Chair recognizes the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Over the past few weeks, we have been raising questions regarding the

breakdown of the Hebron-Ben Nevis negotiations, especially the potential impact

that it will have on the oil and gas sector in the Province. The Minister of

Natural Resources and the Premier have continuously stated that they do not

believe these events will negatively impact development in the Province,

especially natural gas.

I ask the Premier: Would he now confirm that indeed several oil companies

have approached the government and, in fact, have made written submissions

stating the major concerns that they have with the stalling of this project and

in particular the lack of development of a natural gas royalty regime?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, let me set the record abundantly clear and straight, and we have

been consistent when we began our public consultation process on the Provincial

Energy Plan; we are nearing completion of that.

As I said yesterday, I have met with ConocoPhillips who have done 3D seismic

work in the Laurentian Basin last year on two specific targets that they were

looking at. Husky Energy, we have met with them with respect to the issues

surrounding natural gas royalty. Our strategic energy advisor is about to

complete their view on natural gas royalty for the Province. We have

communicated to the business community generally, both the oil companies and the

supply and service community, particularly the membership of NOIA, that all that

will be coming when the Provincial Energy Plan is completed.

The fact of the matter is this, and the reason that we have taken that

approach, is because, for the first time in Newfoundland and Labrador's

history, since joining Confederation, there will be a Provincial Energy Plan

that looks way out into the future, that will provide certainty, that will

provide clarity for all those involved in the industry, Mr. Speaker. That is the

right approach, that is the sensible approach, and that is the strategic

approach, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just to follow up on that line of thought, the final question I have for the

minister, it is obvious that the exploration and development of our offshore

region is being delayed while this is happening. Whether it is the right

approach or not is another story, but there is no doubt that the development of

our offshore is being delayed while we are waiting for it.

The question is quite simple, Minister: When can we expect, as a Province, to

see these strategic methods that you have taken clue up? When can you expect

that we might see the finalization of the energy plan? Very straightforward.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: To suggest that exploration in the Province is being

delayed is an absolute fallacy, Mr. Speaker; it is not true. There are $800

million of exploration commitments that must be made within the next three

years. Companies like Shell Canada, ExxonMobil, Chevron, the very partners who

were involved in the Hebron project, right now are in discussions for bringing

the largest drill rig on the planet, known as the Erik Raude, for drilling

commitments in the Orphan Basin. So, to suggest that exploration is being

delayed is absolutely false.

With respect to the Provincial Energy Plan, the member knows, as all members

know, we conducted a public consultation. I have a couple that we have to get

back to because of inclement weather: one in the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair's District; a second one in the district of my colleague, the

Minister of Environment and Conservation; and a third one in the district of the

member who just asked the question, in his own district, where I have made a

commitment to go down and hold a public consultation on the energy plan. When

that is complete, then the process - we have had stakeholder process, private

submissions as well. We are looking at within the next four to six months, Mr.

Speaker, no more than that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

Paramedics in the Province are still trying to deliver an urgent message to

government, that ambulance services are critically inadequate and below the

Canadian standard. Now, while some aspects of their requests have been

addressed, not all have been. In an attempt to get some solutions, these

paramedics have willingly compromised with the Health Care Corporation and

agreed to a full review of their services, Mr. Speaker. In the meantime, they

have made some demands that they would like to have met in order to ensure

safety and stability. In fact, they only want one more paramedic hired for the

fifth unit on day service and one paramedic hired and a third unit instated for

night operations.

I say to the minister, it is a minimal investment to resolve a critical

situation. Won't you co-operate with these paramedics and provide them with

the support they need?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On the day service, Mr. Speaker: There were four ambulances in place. There

is now a fifth vehicle in place which is staffed by a paramedic and, as well, an

emergency response person. That particular vehicle is being used to transport

people who have either being medically discharged or are being transported from

one facility to another. These are low risk patients. Mr. Speaker, we have an

obligation and a responsibility to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, as

does Eastern Health have an obligation and a responsibility to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador, to provide quality services within fiscal resources.

Part of being able to provide those quality resources it not putting more than

what is needed in a particular area, in order to be able to use those additional

resources to put services in other areas where they are needed.

As far as the night services are concerned, Eastern Health has given a

commitment to the paramedics that we will look at this over the next six months.

To give an example, there are about 260 calls that the St. John's Regional

Fire Department responded to last year, which will tell you that there is less

than one call per day that the ambulance paramedics are not able to respond to,

and therefore they go over to the St. John's Regional Fire Department. There

is an average of seven calls per night. Some nights there are fifteen calls,

some nights there is only one. There is an ambulance on call -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister is aware, on April 13 there were two fires in the city were all

ambulances and rescue units were dispatched, and still there were emergency

calls coming in, yet no ambulatory vehicles available. Now, this has happened

many times, Mr. Speaker, and a full record of the last month of documentation

has already been provided to the minister, so he knows this. He also knows that,

in fact, there was fifteen times in the last month where first response vehicles

had to be initiated because no ambulances were available. This is unacceptable,

minister. Your government, in the Budget of 2005, had no problems increasing the

fees to people who use these ambulance services in our Province.

When are you going to do the right thing, provide the number of ambulances

that are required and the number of paramedics that are required, in the

meantime, until this study is completed?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, all but one of the issues that were brought

to the floor by the paramedics have been addressed, with the exception of the

fifth unit. Today they are looking for a second paramedic, which is really in

excess of what is required.

Mr. Speaker, I have a meeting with the paramedics 5:00 o'clock tomorrow

where I am more than happy to sit down and discuss these issues. That meeting is

already arranged. There are two things that I will not do, and that is make a

rash decision because of political pressure. The other thing is we will not put

additional resources where they are not required. We are prepared to look at the

night service over the next six months and if it is demonstrated that there are

additional requirements for additional ambulatory services at night, than those

will be put in place.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, no one is asking this minister to make a rash

decision. I raised these questions in the House of Assembly a month ago. The

minister was going to act on them at that time. Mr. Speaker, today we have

paramedics still out on the street, here in the gallery today, because they are

not getting the result that they want.

Minister, I want to say to you that the traffic has increased by 12 per cent.

Although we have closed the Grace Hospital, although we have closed the Janeway

and moved it to the Health Sciences Centre, rehab services have been relocated,

still the stats have gone up. The reason they have gone up is because the

population of the City of St. John's has increased, the dependency on the

service has increased and now it is time for the government to take this

responsibility seriously and address it. Give these paramedics the staffing they

need, the units they need and let them get on with serving the ambulatory needs

of the people in our city.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there was an issue raised three or four weeks ago, there was a

commitment made that we would get back to the paramedics. We did. There are four

additional dispatchers put in place. There is an additional vehicle with a

paramedic and an emergency responder in place on that vehicle. We cannot put

resources in every aspect of what the member is asking for on every issue that

the member raises in this House almost on a daily basis. If we did, the

provincial Budget would be $6 billion, not $4.3 billion or $4.4 billion, Mr.

Speaker. We are prepared to look at this over the next six months. If we were to

do what the member suggested and put these in place and take them away six

months from now saying they are not required, she would be the first one on her

feet saying that we are reducing services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is also for the Minister of Health.

We hear all the time, minister, about Canadians who are travelling abroad to

be more into buying extra health insurance. However, in Canada we are all

supposed to be covered by a national health care plan, one that is universal.

However, residents of this Province are unaware that travelling through the

Province of Quebec, if they find themselves or a family member hospitalized and

treated, admitted to a hospital, they are told that they must pay for the

services that they receive prior to leaving the hospital. On the flip side, Mr.

Minister, it is my understanding that does not happen to residents of Quebec who

find themselves in hospitals in this Province. This amounts to thousands of

dollars, I say to the minister, beyond most people's ability to pay, not to

mention the extra stress that is placed upon them.

Will the minister explain why this is happening when we have a national

health care program in this country?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the member for his question. There are reciprocal

agreements in place between this Province and every other jurisdiction in Canada

for hospital services, including Quebec. There is a reciprocal agreement with

this Province and every other jurisdiction in Canada, with the exception of

physician services with Quebec. So, what he is raising, basically, is that the

physician costs in Quebec are billed to the patient and they have to recover

those costs through MCP back here. That is unfortunate, and it is a very valid

point. I will commit to the member, that at our next meeting of

provincial-federal ministers I will raise this issue because it is unjust. I

believe the issue is unjust and this issue will be raised.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. R. COLLINS: I say to the minister, that it is not only for physician

services. It is also for testing that is done, such as x-rays, blood tests and

all of the other things. There is a person right now from this Province in a

hospital in Quebec who has been told that they have to pay for this before they

leave the hospital. I do not know if that happens with every hospital in Quebec.

I understand if you are referred from this Province to Quebec, that is not the

case.

I thank the minister for saying he will raise this as an issue. Will the

minister also commit to raising it with the federal government, who ultimately

provides the dollars to provide medicare in this country?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Yes, any services that are billed by the physician are

charged back to the patient in Quebec. Medical bills are charged to MCP but any

bill charged by the physician are charged back in Quebec, and that is unfair.

That will be raised and I will try to resolve that. I think that is an issue

that every minister in every other jurisdiction in Canada has to put pressure on

the Government of Quebec to develop reciprocal agreements in that regard.

In regard to a national pharmaceutical strategy, I believe was the second

issue. That is an issue that the provincial-territorial and federal ministers

are working on. We are having talks and, in fact, there will be consultations in

the Province, I believe, next month on a national pharmaceutical strategy as

part of that framework between the provincial and federal ministers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the last few weeks we have seen fuel prices skyrocket in this Province

once again. I ask the Minister of Government Services: Does she think that fuel

price regulation is still working in this Province, or will she be revising the

regulations in any way to make it work better?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, the regulations that we have in place right now

come from the former Administration. There has been nothing changed in the

regulation. The world prices, that market is a volatile market and it is beyond

our control. Indeed, regulations are working for the consumers.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, thank God for us and the world, because there

is nothing wrong with that government, it is all wrong with the world and us.

Mr. Speaker, the consumers I speak to on a regular basis are having problems.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, this Province is an oil producer and government

is flush with cash because of high oil prices.

I ask the Minister of Government Services: Doesn't she find it somewhat

strange that while the government is flush with cash from increased oil

revenues, the consumers are expected to still pay some of the highest fuel

prices in North America?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, the regulations that we have in place - nothing

has changed from the former Administration's regulations. The formula that is

used is regulated throughout the Province. The consumers are being protected

with the regulations that we have. In fact, if we did not have these

regulations, we would see the prices at the pump jump up much faster than what

they have jumped up now. But, this market is volatile. Again, I have to say to

the hon. member over across, that he knows full-well, being the minister in this

particular portfolio, what the prices does. All we did with the PUB is that we

brought the pricing under them. We only changed the political appointment that

the former Administration had made. We put it where it could be effective right

now. The regulations and the formula are still the same formula that it was.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Well, Mr. Speaker, if we are protected, God help us. What a

lecture that was, Minister. Minister, it has changed. If it wasn't for George

Murphy telling the public what the prices are going to be in a little while, the

public would be at a great disadvantage.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, one way this government can give consumers in

this Province a tax break is to extend the rebate to consumers.

I ask the minister: Given the high cost of fuel, and the impact this is

having, is this something government will consider doing?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, the PUB is currently taking a review of the

pricing policy to determine if there are improvements that can be made at the

present time.

I will say to the hon. member that our regulations are indeed working for the

consumer. Again, I state categorically that we have no control of the world

markets when it comes to the petroleum. You know, and I know as well, that is

beyond the control of the regulations. The regulations and the formula are now

working.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Well, Mr. Speaker, let me tell you about a group that it is

not working for. One of the groups hardest hit by the massive increase in fuel

price are those in the trucking industry. Independent truckers in this Province

are talking about closing down their business and moving out of the Province.

I ask the minister: Is she concerned about the future of the trucking

industry in this Province? If so, what actions will she be taking to see that it

is not destroyed by high fuel prices?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, the pricing regulations are to ensure that the

petroleum prices are justified while providing for the security of supply and

reasonable return to the producer, wholesaler and the retailers.

Again, I have to say to the hon. member that I do not control the world

market prices of the petroleum.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

There is time for one question.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, when the Premier announced the opening of the Ottawa office, he

commented on how important it was, but over the past fifteen months you could

hang out a line of clothes in the boardroom and it would never be disturbed.

Mr. Speaker, now that the Premier has announced the appointment of a

full-time Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, how can the Premier justify an

empty Ottawa office costing the taxpayers of this Province $400,000 a year?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Hanging out the clothes is better than taking a closer

look and seeing a pile of dirty laundry.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Now, as -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: As for your request, we will have an announcement for

you tomorrow.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Pursuant to

section 26.(5)(

a) of the Financial Administration Act, I am

tabling two Orders-in-Council relating to funding pre-commitments for the

2007-2008 to the 2010-2011 fiscal years.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today, Mr. Speaker, to talk about the Wild Cove dump site, a very

important issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: I say to the Minister of Transportation and Works, your

department is the one that is keeping the dump on the road over on the Wild Cove

area. Why don't you do something about it? The councils are asking to meet

with you.

Mr. Speaker, again I rise to present a petition, this time on behalf of the

residents of the Town of Irishtown-Summerside, concerning the dump site area.

There is a move afoot to extend the life of the dump site by another twenty

years, by the City of Corner Brook. The councils on the North Shore of the Bay

of Islands have requested a meeting, and I have requested for them a meeting

with the Minister of Municipal Affairs and the Minister of Environment and

Conservation to sit down with the councils.

What is happening with the dump site in Wild Cove, they are being left out.

The councils that are being directly affected by this are the ones on the North

Shore of the Bay of Islands. At the meetings that we had they were all there,

except Cox's Cove, but they did express their concerns. There were members

from the council from Massey Drive. Mount Moriah was there also. The North Shore

Development Association was there also.

We see in the media that the mayor, rightly or wrongly, I am not sure, and

both ministers can confirm or deny at the meeting, the Mayor of the City of

Corner Brook, concerning the dump site: We are in fairly consistent

correspondence with the Department of Municipal Affairs, Jack Byrne. That is

what the City of Corner Brook is saying out there. The alarm raised by the

councils is that the dump site was supposed to close in the next two to three

years and have a regional disposal site.

I spoke to the minister personally on this and the minister explained what a

regional disposal area consists of, and I explained that to the councils. The

councils would like to go ahead with the plan that was presented to the Great

Humber Joint Council, that the regional disposal site area be put outside the

municipality, outside the boundary. The councils are expressing their concerns

to all the people, and there is a petition. Right now there are over 1,000 names

from the people on the north shore. I have about 100 of those names right here.

Most of these are from the residents of Irishtown and Summerside.

I am not sure if the minister had time to review their

schedule to see when

they will meet. This is of an urgent nature, because the concern is that the

City of Corner Brook may go head and have this dump site claimed again for the

next twenty or thirty years before they have any input into it whatsoever. The

problem they are having is that they are all left in the dark. They have no idea

of what correspondence is taking place. They have no idea at what stage this

proposal is to the government. They have no idea what the City of Corner Brook

is actually planning. The mayor himself was saying there was a meeting, but

there was no such meeting. This is a major -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MR. JOYCE: By leave?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you for leave.

Mr. Speaker, I will present the petition on the residents' behalf, and I

will be discussing this further. I thank both ministers for the consideration

for the meeting with the councils on the north shore.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again today, I am standing and offering this petition on behalf of the people

of the Buchans area in the hopes that government might listen and be able to

provide some money for the upgrades to the Buchans highway. I know I am

beginning to sound like a broken record, however I shall continue to do so until

we get some action from this government.

MR. HICKEY: You are skipping.

MS THISTLE: The Member for Lake Melville said the record is skipping.

Well, I can tell you I am not skipping. I am not going to skip a day. I am going

to get on my feet every day of the week -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: - and I am going to let the people of this House know, and

the people who might be watching, that government is doing a great injustice to

the people of rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

I saw the Minister of Transportation and Works last night get on his feet and

say he was never up over the Buchans Highways, but yet he sat in his office and

made a decision not to put any money on the Buchans Highway. How can you

intelligently made a decision? He is putting out $60 million in roadwork this

year and he is sitting in his office and making a decision. He is supposed to be

touting the government policy to support rural Newfoundland and Labrador and yet

he decides, in his own wisdom, or lack of wisdom, not to put money where it is

needed. I do not understand the rationale and I will never, ever, be convinced

that he had any rationale in making that decision.

I wrote him early in the year and I outlined to the minister how important it

was to have good roads so that people who are 100 kilometres from any service of

any sort - there is no service station on the Buchans Highway. There is nowhere

to turn if you run into any kind of problem.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, the noise is -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair would ask for members' co-operation on both sides of the House.

The Chair is having difficulty hearing the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is apparent that members opposite have no interest in what I am saying

regarding rural Newfoundland. It is apparent they have no interest, because if

they had any interest they would be listening, number one, and they would be

trying to convince their colleague, the Minister of Transportation and Works,

how important this issue is.

Last night I tried, in great vain, to let the Premier know of this situation.

I heard him say today that he watches all of these events sitting at his desk.

When he is not here, he watches them on his television, so I hope he will

(inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS THISTLE: Just a (inaudible)?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) seconds.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to let my colleagues here in the House know the importance of

this matter, particularly the Minister of Finance, a Cabinet Minister who left

$76 million on the table at this last Budget. Can he convince the Premier and

the Minister of Transportation and Works to find $1 million to do the upgrade on

the Buchans Highway?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present this petition on behalf of the residents

of Kingston to Western Bay, the undersigned residents:

WHEREAS conditions on Route 70 passing through Victoria and Salmon Cove is

badly in need of repair; and

WHEREAS the traffic travelling over this road includes school buses,

commercial trucks, ambulances, and patients going to hospitals; and

WHEREAS this route is part of the Conception Bay North Highway and it has

deteriorated over the past three years;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, call upon all Members of the

House of Assembly to see that this

section of road is brought up to proper

standards.

Mr. Speaker, as you can see, a large number of people participated in having

this petition filled out, and it testifies to the number of people who travel

from that particular area of our Province to the major centre of Carbonear and

onwards to St. John's up the Conception Bay North Highway and Veterans'

Memorial Drive.

Mr. Speaker, this piece of road has deteriorated to the extent that every

time a truck or a tractor trailer passes over it right now, more damage is being

done. This road is used daily to accommodate students from Western Bay to

Carbonear, from different parts of the Carbonear-Harbour Grace District to

Persalvic High School, small children are being transported in cars and buses.

This road has reached a point where it has almost become impassable. The

residents complain about not being able to sleep at night because of the ruts in

the road, the banging of the tractor trailers in the nighttime, the dumps on the

dump trucks and so on.

Mr. Speaker, last year there was a small attempt made, a token attempt made,

to patch it, to patch a

section of the road, but unfortunately it only has

worsened the problem. This road needs to be resurfaced, and the people down

there are becoming desperate. They just cannot tolerate the condition of this

road any longer.

Mr. Speaker, we are not talking about a woods road or a secondary road. We

are talking about a main highway that connects the loop, as people call it,

around Trinity Bay and Conception Bay. We have to spend some time and money and

some attention to this particular piece of road.

Mr. Speaker, a delegation from the Town of Victoria went in to meet with the

Department of Transportation and Works and they were informed by the deputy

minister that nobody had requested funding for that road. Mr. Speaker, that

saddens me, because here we are talking about a main highway that deals with

such a large number of people and such a great percentage of our population, to

receive that kind of comment that nobody has bothered to look for funding. Mr.

Speaker, there are two works depots in that area: one in Bay Roberts and one in

Flambro Head.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. SWEENEY: By leave?

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been requested.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, thank you for the leave.

I just wish to present this petition on behalf of those residents from

Kingston to Western Bay, and to make sure that their concerns are heard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Rose

Blanche-Harbour Le Cou and Diamond Cove with respect to the possibility of their

St. Michael's School closing. It is a K-3 school in the community. There has

been an assessment done by the Western Region Board of Education and the

possibility exists, according to the board report, that the school may indeed be

slated for closure some time in the future.

In credit to the board, they are allowing an opportunity for the residents of

that area, and the parents and the PTA associations and so on, to have input

into the process, and I do not believe the final decision has been made. They

are very concerned, of course. This is a K-3 school and there are about

twenty-one students in it at the present time.

As anyone knows, in these small rural communities there are a lot of things

you can do without and probably still survive as a community, and God only knows

that in our Province many of our small communities are surviving, but there are

certain things that, when you remove it from a community, it is the heart and

soul of the community, because it is not just a school. This school in Rose

Blanche is indeed the heart of the community. It is the social centre of the

community, and the opportunity is going to present itself on May 18.

I have sent correspondence to the Minister of Education, in fact, and ask her

as well - she represents a district just up the road from that area - I think it

would be very educational and very informative to the minister, indeed, if she

herself could show up at the meeting. It will not be a shouting, screeching ball

game. The people of those communities are very well-organized. They are very

patient and they will present a very rational argument as to why the school

should be kept open.

We believe, in fact, some of the information that the board has is

incomplete, and that information will be, no doubt, updated and the information

provided to the board so they will be fully informed. I understand that the

Director of Education, Dr. Elliott, will be there with the board on the

eighteenth, and the residents will be out in full force to make their points

known in a very logical, justifiable manner as to why this school should stay

open.

There are a lot of reasons, many of which will be made known to the board. I

am sure they already know some of them, but some particular details were not

taken into consideration, I am sure, which the residents of the community and

myself will be there to make sure that the board is fully informed. We would

hope that the decision that is ultimately made by the board will, of course,

reflect the facts as will be presented to them.

I have raised this in the House of Assembly, of course. The government

pretends, on occasion, that they have nothing to do with the operations of

boards any more. We do not interfere, but we all know the truth of that. We know

that is not the case. The government will intervene in board decisions if they

feel it is desirable. They did so in the Exploits District last year on

occasion. I understand now there has been, again, a decision made with respect

to Eastport. But, hopefully, it will not come to that, that we have to come back

to the House and ask the government to intervene here, but common sense will

prevail and the school will, indeed, stay open.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to present a petition on behalf of the residents of my district,

especially from the community of Williams Harbour.

Mr. Speaker, the community of Williams Harbour is on an island. It is only a

small distance from the main highway connection, which would be to Pinsent Arm

now. Back under the Liberal Administration, we did build roads into Port Hope

Simpson, into Charlottetown, into Pinsent Arm. The next connection would have

been Williams Harbour but, unfortunately, that did not happen. Our hope was,

after that, we would get to Norman Bay and then to Black Tickle.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Williams Harbour are very disappointed, because

the government would have only had to invest $5 million in infrastructure to

give this community a road, to give them access to the outside world so they

could get out for medical services and for all the other services that we

require in our day-to-day living, but it did not happen. The government, at the

time, felt it was not economically feasible. They did not have the money to

carry forward with that investment but, boy, they have the money today. There is

absolutely no reason that the people of Williams Harbour have to be stranded on

this island in the ocean with no access.

This past year, because of global warming, because of the changes in the

climate in that area, we did not even have an ice freeze up that would allow

them to get out by snowmobile. So they had no access whatsoever. In the one or

two attempts they made to get off the island of Williams Harbour to the

mainland, there were two snowmobiles that ended up going through the ice. These

people were lucky to even save their lives and get away from that incident. So

it is very dangerous. It is absolutely a critical piece of infrastructure that

needs to be built in Labrador.

I want to encourage the government, on behalf of the people of Williams

Harbour, to have another look at this, to encourage the minister. I have talked

to the Premier about this and I honestly believe that if the Premier were to go

into Williams Harbour to meet with the people of that community, that he would

certainly see the real value in investing this money into this community to

ensure that they have access to the outside world, that they have a safe road on

which they can drive. That is all that they ask.

I agree, it may not be economically viable to do it, but how many roads in

Newfoundland and Labrador were actually economically viable to build? I would

beg that there are very, very few. When you look at all of the miles and

kilometres of highway that has been built to all the different small communities

around this Province, it was done because it was a necessity, because it was

improving the condition and the standard of living for these people.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has elapsed.

MS JONES: I just have a couple of things to clue up.

MR. SPEAKER: Request for leave.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I was saying that a lot of these roads were not

necessarily economically viable to build, but they were done because there was a

need for it, because it improved the standard of living of people that were

there and it gave them a safe access to the outside world. That is all I am

asking on behalf of the people of Williams Harbour, that government would have

another look at building a road to this community and giving them an opportunity

to have a safe transportation network that they can use on a year-round basis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: This is Orders of the Day, I suspect, is it?

MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you. I wanted to make sure that I was not going to

get up on a petition to petition my own government. Normally, I do that at the

Cabinet table or at the caucus table, thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I want to move to Motion 4 first. First reading of a bill, An

Act To Amend The City Of Corner Brook Act, The City Of Mount Pearl Act, The City

Of St. John's Act, The Municipalities Act, 1999 And The St. John's

Assessment Act. (Bill 14)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend

The City Of Corner Brook Act, The City Of Mount Pearl Act, The City Of St. John's

Act, The Municipalities Act, 1999 And The St. John's Assessment Act. (Bill 14)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Municipal

Affairs shall have leave to introduce the said bill?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The City Of Corner Brook Act, The City Of Mount Pearl Act,

The City Of St. John's Act, The Municipalities Act, 1999 And The St. John's

Assessment Act," carried. (Bill 14)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a

first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 14 be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The City Of Corner Brook Act, The City Of

Mount Pearl Act, The City Of St. John's Act, The Municipalities Act, 1999 And

The St. John's Assessment Act. (Bill 14)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 14 has now been read a first time.

When shall Bill 14 be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 14 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 5, under the name of the hon. Minister of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs, first reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999.

(Bill 20)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend

The Municipalities Act, 1999. (Bill 20)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs

shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to

introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999,"

carried. (Bill 20)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 20 be now read a first

time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 20 be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999. (Bill 20)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 20 has now been read a first time.

When shall the said bill be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 20 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 6, first reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Provincial Court

Judges' Pension Plan Act. (Bill 7)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the Minister of Finance and

President of Treasury Board shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act To Amend The Provincial Court Judges' Pension Plan Act. (Bill 7)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 7?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board

to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Judges'

Pension Plan Act," carried. (Bill 7)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded Bill 7 be now read a first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Judges' Pension

Plan Act. (Bill 7)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 7 has now been read a first time.

When shall Bill 7 be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 7 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 7, first reading of a bill,

An Act Respecting The Delivery Of Health

And Community Services And The Establishment Of Regional Health Authorities.

(Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded the hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act

Respecting The Delivery Of Health And Community Services And The Establishment

Of Regional Health Authorities. (Bill 11)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 11?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a

bill, "An Act Respecting The Delivery Of Health And Community Services And

The Establishment Of Regional Health Authorities," carried. (Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a

first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 11 be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting The Delivery Of Health And Community

Services And The Establishment Of Regional Health Authorities. (Bill 11)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 11 has now been read a first time.

When shall the said bill be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 11 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 8, first reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Child, Youth And

Family Services Act. (Bill 18)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act To Amend The Child, Youth And Family Services Act. (Bill 18)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 18?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a

bill, "An Act To Amend The Child, Youth And Family Services Act,"

carried. (Bill 18)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a

first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Child, Youth And Family Services Act.

(Bill 18)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 18 has now been read a first time.

When shall Bill 18 be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 18 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 9, to move first reading of a bill,

An Act Respecting The Practice Of

Physiotherapy. (Bill 19)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act Respecting The Practice Of Physiotherapy. (Bill 19)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 19?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a

bill, "An Act Respecting The Practice Of Physiotherapy," carried.

(Bill 19)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a

first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 19 be now read first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting The Practice Of Physiotherapy. (Bill 19)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 19 has now been read a first time.

When shall this bill be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 19 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 10, to move first reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Environmental

Protection Act. (Bill 16)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Environment and Conservation shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act To Amend The Environmental Protection Act. (Bill 16)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 16?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation to introduce a

bill, "An Act To Amend The Environmental Protection Act," carried.

(Bill 16)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and second that Bill 16 be now read a first

time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 16 be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Environmental Protection Act. (Bill

16)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 16 has now been read a first time.

When shall Bill 16 be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 16 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 11, to move first reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Buildings

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

It is the pleasure of the House that the said minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 8?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a

first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 8 has now been read a first time.

When shall the said bill be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 8 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, for those watching the proceedings, they must

be asking themselves: What does on tomorrow mean? when asked: When will it be

read a second time?

For those who may be watching, or who may be interested, on tomorrow means,

basically, that once first reading is passed it is at the discretion of the

government to call it either tomorrow, the next day or the day after.

That is just a quick sort of explanation because I know, in terms of the

codes and practices and traditions here, they are not something that you would

use normally in your everyday life on the street.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I want to move Motion 12, first reading,

An Act To

Amend The Occupational Health and Safety Act. (Bill 9)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

Amend The Occupational Health And Safety Act. ( Bill 9)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 9?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Occupational Health and Safety Act,"carried. (

Bill 9)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 9 be now read a first

time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 9 be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Occupational Health and Safety Act. (

Bill 9).

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 9 has now been read a first time.

When shall the said bill be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow, Mr. Speaker

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 9 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 13, to move first reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Securities

Act. ( Bill 10)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

Amend The Securities Act. ( Bill 10)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the minister shall have leave

to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Securities Act," carried. (Bill 10)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 10 be now read a first

time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 10 be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Securities Act. (Bill 10)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 10 has now been read a first time. When shall Bill 10

be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 10 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 14, move first reading of a bill,

An Act To Repeal Obsolete Acts And

To Amend The Highway Traffic Act. (Bill 17)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To

Repeal Obsolete Acts And To Amend The Highway Traffic Act. (Bill 17)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 17?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Repeal Obsolete Acts And To Amend The Highway Traffic Act."

(Bill 17)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 17 be now read a first

time.

Is the pleasure of the House that Bill 17 be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Repeal Obsolete Acts And To Amend The Highway

Traffic Act. (Bill 17)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 17 has now been read a first time. When shall Bill 17

be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 17 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 15, move first reading of a bill,

An Act Respecting The Convention On

The Settlement Of Investment Disputes Between States And Nationals Of Other

States. (Bill 12)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the Minister of Justice and

Attorney General shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act

Respecting The Convention On The Settlement Of Investment Disputes Between

States And Nationals Of Other States. (Bill 12)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. minister shall have leave to

introduce Bill 12?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a

bill, "An Act Respecting The Convention On The Settlement Of Investment

Disputes Between States And Nationals Of Other States," carried. (Bill 12)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 12 be now read a first

time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 12 be read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting The Convention On The Settlement Of

Investment Disputes Between States And Nationals Of Other States. (Bill 12)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 12 has now been read a first time. When shall Bill 12

be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 12 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 16, move first reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Sheriff's Act,

1991. (Bill 13)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Justice and Attorney General shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act To Amend The Sheriff's Act, 1991. (Bill 13)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Justice and

Attorney General shall have leave to introduce Bill 13?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a

bill, "An Act To Amend The Sheriff's Act, 1991," carried. (Bill 13)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 13 be now read a first

time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 13 be read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Sheriff's Act, 1991. (Bill 13)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 13 has now been read a first time. When shall the said

bill be read a second time?

MR. E. BYRNE: On tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, Bill 13 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 17, pursuant to Standing Order 11 that the House not adjourn at 5:30

p.m. today, on Tuesday, May 2.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that this House do not adjourn today at 5:30

p.m. on Tuesday, May 2, 2006.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, motion 18, to further move that the House not

adjourn at 10:00 p.m. today.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is, under Standing Order 11, that the House not

adjourn today, Tuesday, May 2 at 10:00 p.m.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 2, I move this House resolve itself into a Committee of Supply to

consider the Estimates related to the Consolidated Fund Services, Executive

Council and Legislature, part (a). And part (

b) Resolution and Bill 5 respecting

the Granting of Main Supply to Her Majesty.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that this House resolve itself into a

Committee of the Whole to consider matters of Estimates in Committee of Supply,

and that I do now leave the Chair.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Motion carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.

Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I move that the debate begin with respect to the Estimates on the

Consolidated Fund Services.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The Committee is ready to hear debate on the Consolidated Fund Services.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Consolidated Fund Services basically deals with the interest and management

related to our public debt. Also, it looks after the funding issue for our

pension plans, as indicated there.

I am not going to go into details, but I will answer any particular

questions. That is strictly confined to dealing with those two aspects, the

public debt of our Province, how we manage that, how we service that, our

interest associated with servicing that, management fees we pay when we go to

the market on issues and so on, on any related costs, and how we manage our

supply of cash, whether we do it in T-Bills or longer term issues. How we manage

it on our overdrafts: we do it in such a manner as to minimize the interest

payments to our Province.

Of course, on our pension plan for government and the government agency

employees, we are also responsible for that under the Consolidated Fund

Services.

I will leave it at that, and certainly entertain any questions on those.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I notice it was called under Consolidated Fund Services. Are you entertaining

the other categories as well under this?

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: Okay, you are just going to -

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: Okay, that is fine with me. I didn't know if you wanted to

do them all together or just like this, all separated. That is fine.

Under Consolidated Fund Services, as the minister outlined that is pretty

forward. Once thing I would like to make note of is the fact that two and a half

years ago it was brought into question by this current government that we were

at risk of losing our good rating that we had acquired in recent years. I think

what is important today to point out to those who might be viewing this House of

Assembly proceeding, is that our rating has not deteriorated in the slightest. I

think it gives credence to the fact that, in 2003, when we announced our bond

rating by the bonding agencies, which was the best then, probably since

Confederation, what we said at that time was very true. In fact, we held our

ground on that and the bond rating agencies have confirmed that particular issue

is, indeed, true.

There are some issues around Consolidated Fund Services that I would like to

ask the minister about. That is in light of the fact that, in the past couple of

days, the Canadian dollar has soared. The Canadian dollar has soared, the best

time ever in our history, I think, in probably the past decade, that we have now

approached ninety cents as compared to the U.S. dollar. So, in light of that, I

would like to ask the Finance Minister: For some of the borrowings that we now

have currently in U.S. dollars, would this be an opportunity now for you to go

back to these lenders and see about getting some of our borrowings renegotiated?

I wonder if the Finance Minister would be receptive to that. Particularly, a

lot of our investments are in pension funds. Over the years, in some cases we

have done well with pension funds, and in other cases we have not done so well.

In fact, I do recall a few years back that, in our teachers' pension fund,

there was quite a bit lost one year due to the fluctuation of the market. I know

that there is a committee that is looking after the investment strategies for

investing any of these pension funds, but we do have a lot of our borrowings out

in currencies other than Canadian dollar currencies, and I am wondering if this

would be an opportune time for the Minister of Finance to be able to give an

account of what current borrowings we have in U.S. dollars, and whether or not

it would make a significant change to our total debt if the Province were able

to renegotiate some of these borrowings.

Are you prepared to answer at this time?

MR. SULLIVAN: Sure.

MS THISTLE: Okay.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

All members of the House received a copy of the Estimates on Budget Day. I

think everybody received that. On page 250 of that book, it will show what is in

foreign debt. We do not have any debt out there in the Swiss Franc any more.

That is long gone. The Japanese Yen is gone. The only debt we have out in a

foreign currency is seven issues in the U.S. market, six of which were issued by

the former government and one by the former Conservative government back in

1987. The other six were issued under the Liberal Administration. Under these

particular ones, they all add up to $1,150,000,000 in U.S. debt. The interest

rates vary on these, depending, on the more recent ones, as low as 7.32 per cent

and as high as 11 5/8s of 8 per cent.

Can we retire that in terms of the strong Canadian dollar? The answer is, any

debt that we could retire and pay a penalty and get refinanced at lower, we

would take advantage of it, but unfortunately it is non-callable and the

penalties are just as great as the amount that we would pay. So, there is no

advantage in doing that whatsoever.

One advantage of the stronger dollar is that we find that, because of the

stronger Canadian dollar now, and the closer equivalency to the market, about

$1.13 and change, the conversion there, we are paying less interest now because

interest is payable as a percent on the U.S. debt. Therefore, because of the

stronger dollar, we are going to have lower interest rates to be able to apply

because the Canadian equivalent would have a greater value. We would not need as

many Canadian dollars now to be able to pay on that debt. So, that is going to

be certainly an advantage there.

As to our total debt, if you look at page 250, just while we are on that

topic there, I know the member did not ask the question but I will just bring it

to your attention, we have payable in Canadian dollars there, to give you a

little overview, shown on page 250 in the Estimates. Then also I would mention,

because I think it is noteworthy to mention, on page 251, under the Canada

Pension Plan, we have a significant amount of funds, and there was an

opportunity provided now to keep rolling them over at a one-time for twenty

years. Since July of 2005, in the past year or more, in about the past year, we

have not rolled over any. We have just retired them as they came due. We have

not gone out with any new issue, in fact, on these. There is an opportunity to

roll them over, as you can see there, the amount that is there. This year,

hopefully, depending on our cash situation, we may be able to retire these as

they come due.

In the Canada Pension Plan you can see the varying rates there. They are

loans on the federal Canada Pension Plan as low as the more recent ones you can

see that we had to roll over back in 2005 and 2004; they are going in at

anywhere from 4.91 per cent to 5.75 per cent, the more recent ones. They are

coming due every month, so as each month they came due they would be rolled over

and the rates, obviously, in the past while were much lower. The rates that they

were taking out initially, if you look at the specific year there, 1986, some of

the more expensive ones, in 1986-1987, anywhere from 9.04 per cent to 10.17 per

cent. The range is there because they are over a period of twelve different

months. It came up in one month and it goes back in, on what the rate was for

that month. That would be the variation, really, in rates over the period of

that year.

That is what is out there in our direct (inaudible) Canada Pension. Then we

have our debt, of course, that is out there in debenture markets, the Canadian

dollar, and we also have the U.S. market I made a reference to. We do have

others there. You will see in the Estimates there, we have other debt out there.

We have Treasury bills, for example, and I will just mention that. We have

Treasury bills out there that we keep rolling over. They are thirteen weeks, so

every Wednesday we have an issue that goes out at $38 million over the thirteen

weeks; that comes to $494 million that is out in T-bills. The T- bills would

fluctuate. Initially, it was much lower. It averaged about 3.91 on the year.

Right now, they are climbing up a little bit higher, of course, because we see

the rates have been edging up. Overall, we have performed at, on the 91 day

Treasury bills, or T-bills, they are called ninety-one days, every ninety-one

days they would roll them back in again. That gives us steady access to cash for

cash flow purposes at 3.91 per cent average on the year.

Of course, most of the bonds out there now on the market, the borrowing rates

on bonds as of March 31 of this year, at the end of the last fiscal year, on a

five-year bond was about 4.4 per cent. A ten-year bond was 4.65 per cent, and

then thirty-year bonds were about 4.90 per cent. You can see the opportunity to

go to the market now and borrow. Certainly you can do it a lot cheaper, but we

did not have to go to the market. In fact, we retired, last year, a $100 million

one that came due in September.

If we have to go to the market this year, which we will have to go to the

market, and we budgeted to do that, that is rolled out on Budget day, we are

looking at, if necessary, we are going to go out and borrow to fix the pension

plans there. That is our goal, to be able to do that in this fiscal year. We

have made an allocation to do that, also, even if we have to borrow $800 million

or if we have to get the money in a cash flow basis, some of that, whatever

means is there.

We do manage our cash on a basis, plus we have overdrafts and there are

charges when we go over on that, in interest. They are all in separate line

items there, if you care to ask either particular question on any of that.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I note also, on page 252, that the Province used the exchange rate of 1.1650

for conversion of our Canadian dollar debt. Based on yesterday's and today's

high exchange rate for our Canadian dollar, naturally there is going to be

incredible savings there, based on our total U.S. commitment.

I also would like to ask the Finance minister, regarding the sinking funds,

which is now over $1 billion set aside for our debt redemption: Has any thought

been given to the fact that, in lieu of our good financial situation over the

past year, of using these sinking funds for payment of our debt? Has any thought

been given to that? Rather than keeping them aside for the redemption of debt as

it expires, has any thought been given to using the actual sinking funds amount

of over $1 billion? Do you understand what I am saying?

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: Yes, okay.

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I guess my answer to that, the question is self-explanatory. A sinking fund

is a fund established for the retirement of debt. Our law requires that we -

there is certain debt that has a statutory sinking fund requirement, which means

if we borrow $300 million on the market out there on certain funds, we would

have to put aside so much money a year for when that comes due to be able to

retire that debt. That is one of the basic requirements out there.

Sinking funds are put there for debt. Let's say we had a $300 million bond

out there over thirty years, so that would be about $10 million a year. We might

put into a sinking fund, let's say $4 million or $5 million a year and that

builds up. We get interest on that and that money generates. So when that comes

due in thirty years, we will have sinking funds available to be able to apply to

that. You cannot just take sinking funds and pour it on debt. There is a

statutory requirement to have that there to offset that debt when it comes due.

It is there. We put it in. We get an interest on that sinking fund. When we do

our total debt, we take all the debt we owe out there and we back off and deduct

our sinking funds because that is cash we have that reduces our debt.

If you had $10 billion in debt and you had $1 billion in sinking funds toward

that debt, you would only have a debt of $9 billion. So, those sinking funds are

for debt. There are statutory requirements to do that. In fact, the markets out

there - if someone wants to give you money and put it out on the market, and we

need $300 million. They want some security out there. At least that is a

security that assists in setting a certain rate that would be preferential, we

would hope, by having a sinking fund attached to a certain issue. So that is

what a sinking fund is all about. Sinking funds go toward debt.

Any ones that did not have a requirement of a sinking fund debt, what the

former government did, they took all of that and used it as revenue and spent it

over the past several years. That started in the mid-1990s with the former

government, and they pretty well exhausted all the sinking funds that are not

statutory. That money is all gone now.

So, there are statutory requirements there. We are following that and we

cannot do anything about it. If there is any debt out there we could retire now

and get a preferred rate. We would refinance the whole works of it if we could

get it at 4.9 per cent; everything. Who would not retire 6 per cent or 8 per

cent or 10 per cent debt if you could get it for 5 per cent? That is what we are

in the market for. That is why the Pension Fund investment was a good

investment. It gets money out in the market. The actuarial gives us 7.5 per cent

that they allow in our projections. It has been performing at close to 11 per

cent and sit it in a bank and get 3 per cent. Would you put it to work to get 11

per cent, or sit on it for 3 per cent? That is the type of decision we have been

making, positive ones, to generate extra revenues and so on, reduce borrowing

costs and enable us to have money available for public services.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

While I understand and was aware of the guidelines concerning sinking funds,

of course, being in this Legislature we can make laws and change laws. If our

financial situation continues to improve as it has over the past eighteen

months, there may come a time when we might be interested in looking at changing

the laws and applying those sinking funds, that are not already committed, as

part of loan collateral to various lenders directly to our debt.

I want to move on now to another category. Consolidated Fund Services, and

that would be the Ex-Gratia and Other Payments.

MR. SULLIVAN: What number would that be under?

MS THISTLE: That would be 2.1.02. on page 9.

This one in particular, I guess, would probably be mainly pay equity - part

of it is severance pay. Pay equity was recently announced before the Budget was

brought in for NAPE employees, for pay equity for the female gender. However, I

am wondering, it has been roughly a little over a month since the announcement

was made by the government that pay equity would be given to those who had been

disadvantaged because of their gender in the 1980s, and the pay equity roughly

amounted to $24 million.

Even though government was willing to write a cheque to NAPE and let NAPE

actually distribute the money, I wondered at the time and asked questions in the

House and they were more or less snubbed by the Minister of Education at the

time, the Minister who is responsible for the Status of Women. She was not at

all interested in giving me any explanation regarding how this would be

distributed. She said it was entirely up to NAPE and that I could find it on the

Web site if I was interested in finding out how the complement was going to be

made up.

In addition to pay equity there is also an extra, I would think, probably $13

million there. I asked the Minister of Finance, at the time, during Budget

Debate, whether or not there were any plans to have a mass program renewal and

an exodus of government employees this current year. I think his answer at the

time was no, government had no plans for laying off their employees. But, as

late as today, I received a call from the highways depot employees in Bishop

Falls, telling me that two people had gotten their pink slips today, and I also

learned - I am just speaking of my district alone - that workers' compensation

in Grand Falls-Windsor, which looks after the entire Central area, I have now

learned that people are now going to have to travel to St. John's or Corner

Brook to have an assessment done for long-term permanent disabilities. That is

not good enough.

We always had a physician right in the workers' compensation office in

Grand Falls-Windsor and, for some unknown reason, his services - we are told

that he was no longer required. There is a demand. He has handled close to a

couple of thousand inquiries, issues, per year. It is strange that we are

hearing that other staff members associated with the workers' compensation in

Grand Falls-Windsor, they, too, are getting notices.

What we are hearing all over the Province is that, so there is no rippling or

no frustration or no big outcry from workers, a lot of departments are doing it

on a rotating basis, passing out pink slips in ones and twos and threes so that

nobody is getting a flurry of excitement happening, or there is going to be no

protest.

What we are seeing is that there is normally only about $7 million or $8

million a year for the normal rotation of employees who work for government

leaving their occupations. There is probably only about $7 million or $8 million

a year on a normal year, but we are seeing now that there is close to $14

million set aside, even after pay equity is paid. I wonder, could the Minister

of Finance elaborate and let us know whether or not there is going to be a big

downsizing of our Public Service.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, I want to indicate that I will preface the question by saying,

as a result of this Budget, there will 212 new positions, people employed in

this Province directly within government departments, excluding anybody in

health authorities by virtue of new services we are providing, excluding people

within school boards, school districts around the Province, that could be in the

hundreds overall between health, education and other areas. We could see several

hundred new people working in our Province as a result of this Budget. Number

one, that is not accurate, what she is saying is not correct.

As to Transportation and Works, it has nothing to do with the Consolidated

Fund Service whatsoever. The announcement was made about a year or two years

ago, using money in depots. Money was going to be used in depots because we had

- the former government took everything out of materials, did nothing to be able

to maintain our shoulders and our highways and do the work. They put it all into

labour, kept people on with nothing to do. We said we were going to go through a

process of seasonalization' of these, to use that money to allow us to be

able to use more materials to have something to do work with. That is where that

question came.

Last year, the implementation did not get the desired result because there

had to be a notice period and a payment of that, so a lot of the money did get

used up in salary and did not get it. This will be the first year of the

operation where there will be more money now available for materials because we

have moved into the phase where that has been implemented. That is to provide a

better service. Would you sooner have 500 people without anything to do, or 300

people with something to do and see a result? That is the philosophy of this

government. It is not to keep everybody on if there is nothing to do, to be able

to seasonalize' and get the best result. It is not related at all to this

issue, but I just wanted to answer that.

As to the Workplace Health and Safety Compensation Commission, it is

independent, arm's-length. It is not on the consolidated financial statements

of our Province. Every entity that is supposed to be included, according to the

Public Sector Accounting Board of the Canadian Institute of Chartered

Accountants, that should be included in our financial statements are included.

The AG makes reference to it; it is fully included. The WHSCC is an independent

arm's-length, it operates, not on a consolidated statement. I am not going to

answer questions on the WHSCC that does not fall under our consolidated

statement. It has nothing to do with the Consolidated Fund Service here in our

Province. I do not intend to be a spokesperson for that.

What the minister stated on severance and on ex gratia or other amounts

besides that, we are spending $4 million less than two years ago on severance

and other areas. It is down to a normal level, way below what the former

government had. It is not $10 million being spent. I will let her know where

some of these are going. There were ex gratia payments established back some

time ago that are being carried through and being flowed out. There is $931,200

in that. The Hartt Report, that is the retirement plan for the people at the

Waterford - we are in contact. There is a program in place that is going through

the system for these people in that area who retired. There is $1,164,000 in

that amount for those people.

There is $179,400 for widows under a program. There is the WCC, $33,300 under

that for those. Of course, there is a redundancy one of $1,002,700. Then we have

severance and other areas, ex gratia and other aspects, that has $10 million.

There is a total of $13,461,000 in the proposed budget for this year. The reason

it went up last year from $13 million to $35,950,000 is because there was a

significant ex gratia payment made last year of $24 million. That is why it was

increased in the 2005-2006 year. If you look there you will see why it went from

$13,642,000 to $35,950,700. That is the reason for that.

There are several other items there and ongoing programs that are running

their course. I would imagine the former government entered into, I would

assume, some of these agreements. I know the Hartt Report goes back some time,

certainly well back, a decade. In fact, I might even be able to find out the

exact year that was initiated. In fact, some of these go back - I think the

Hartt one was 1991-1992, when that government was in office, when that was

established. We are continuing that program because it is an appropriate program

and the funding has been provided for it.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Last night, in our debate here at the House, the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture said that the former Ottawa representative was not paid any

severance pay. Would you be able to tell me if the severance paid to a former

Ottawa representative came under this heading 2.1.02?

CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

No, I am not aware that it did. Normally what is done for severance and other

payments, there is a certain amount of money that is booked within departments.

If a department budget is able to accommodate severance, it is paid out of that

specific department. They don't normally budget for a particular severance or

someone who retires. That has never been done by this administration or the

former administration. If there is money as they get to their year end or there

is money in an area where positions might not have been filled for most of the

year, if they know there are going to be savings in this area - professional

services might have been required that weren't used, and there is money there,

that money is used within that specific department or head which that comes

under.

If a department has a variety of people leaving in any one year and there

might be pressures on that department's budget to deliver services, we do have

a block of money that we can move out to departments. The Legislative authority

is provided for that, that accompanies the Budget, and here in the House to do

that and to move it out in block. What went out to a department - if everybody

retired in government. There are hundreds every year who leave government.

On the workforce, overall of government, I guess when you look at agency

extended out, we are talking about 35,000 or 40,000 people. So, whether that

came out of this department, out of a health care corp., whether it came out of

Environment and Conservation, whether it came out of the health department, I

would not know on every individual what came out. I would have to have a record

of hundreds of people who leave on an annual basis from the public service. Some

retire, some leave of their own volition, some for a variety of reasons there,

and everyone is tracked. I cannot tell you who it was. This is a pot of money to

farm out. Maybe it was picked up in that specific department there in that area.

The same here in the Legislature in the House of Assembly. If members leave

here, there is severance allocated to them. If the House of Assembly budget

cannot carry that, we do a block of money. We will transfer it in, so we do not

have to cut an essential service that is being provided here. That has been a

standard practice that has been going on since I came in here, to my knowledge.

When the member sat as Treasury Board, it happened and it is still happening and

it is an appropriate way to do it. Otherwise, you have to have some central pot

of money because there might be an inordinate amount of retirements in one

department in any given year. Therefore, why should the department have to

curtail a service because a good many happened to retire? That is why a central

pot of money to feed out to be able to allow that flow there to maintain

services. It is prudent, it is a proper way to go, and certainly one that we

have been carrying on.

CHAIR: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

During the past couple of years we have seen some hi