PROVINCE OF NEV'fOUNDLA D A D LA9RADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volume 1 Nu;nber 30 4th. S::ssion 34th. General Assembly VERBATI.M REPORT TU!JRSDAY, APR! L 9, 1970 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE GEORGE W. CLJ.'.RK!:

The Hou~e ~et ct three of the clock in the ~fternoon, pursuant to adjournm=~t Mr. Speaker in the Chair. H0~<!....J.R.S!"'ALL\!OOD(Premier): }'r. Speake'r, I rise in the first place on u. point of personal privilege to refer to and object to a reference co me in the Evening Telegran of this evening, of today's date. And only one-particular refeeence, there u.re other references to which I tu.ke no o~jection. I quote to Your Honour, when ~r. Crosbie reite.-ated that the actions ,of the Government ~:ere (quote) "desp:l cable, cont~empti blc, and unhe<J.rd of. •• (unquote) '-1r.

Smalh·ood requested that the Speaker, name him, 11ame him, Then the piece goes on to say Rl!:~ f the Speaker had nar.•ed Mr. Croshie it ~-:oulc! have meant his automatic suspens1 on. which incidentally it would not. (quote) ''I do not care, go ahead and nane ne, shouted Mr. Crosbie. "Co ahe~d, I do not care.•· In the sane

article on pa~e 3 again c;uoting, (quote) "l·fuen are you ccoing to continue to dehnte the resolution, • asked Mr. Cro~bie, of Premier Smallwood. ''Next 1Jednesday;. replied the Premier add the fireuorks statted again. "The Premier is the bir.eest dictator that ever skirted the island •• he is like the dictator of a banand. republic,,. said ~rr. Crosbie. "Bully Boy Crosbie," replied Xr. Smalhrood. "Quiet Sir, please,:; said the Ser~eant -at-Arms, M:3jor Hemmens to ~fr. Crosbie. "T>ictator, '' shouted ~·r. Crosbie. "Bully boy,"replied the Prenier. '"You are aft:aid of the truth," said :'!r. Crosbie, a:td no\J ~~r.

Sneaker the Premier called on the Speaker to ''name him, name him.,. I vish to say that I did not call on the ~oeaker at any time to name the bon. gentleman, I do not know who did1 I did hear the words, I do not know ...,ho called them. I did not, these 1mrds are attributed to me and I did not use them, I do not know who did 1 I did not and 1 "-'Ould he ~lad if the newspaoer. :in CJuestion ~.>hose covera~e of the House I am bound in dutv and fair play to say is amonest the best I think of any newspaoer in Canada, in this present session.

Thoroughly and competent,adenuatc and complete coverrt~e I think it is ~rcat credit to a Ne•·:foundland ne•:snaper that they should be s;ivin::; such thorough ~oins;?; coverar,e. So Lam only obiecti:1:~ to this one attribution of those words to 111e I did not utter. l·lhile I am on my feet,Hr. ~peaker, normally,every year, the annual 1750

It will not ~e so this 7=3~. Employees of the Covcrn::tent vill no~e that no pay inr:rc·ase ~<. shovn in the mid-April c~eques. Dut they ~re not to t~ke ~his to cean th~t no incren~c vill be forthcomin~. All ~tt 3 tiny fractio~ of th~~ will be getticg pay raises, retroactive to April 1. And these ~ill be reflected in their ctca~cs as soon as it can ee ~one.

The reason the nc1c job clas~ification, and pay system just com{n~ into effect as I will ex~lain in a ~oment. tThat I 1.:.:mt to make clei.lr ri~ht nm; :is, t!1nt ~n~r>lovccs of the Government will note, that not even the nnr.>~al annual incrc,cr.t i:. included in the cheques on J\.nril 15th. But a":ain I stress th;tt this do.cs not !l'enn t!tat no incresse will be forthccmin~. l:t is co1:1ing and it !·!ill b~ rctro:Jctive A-oril l, the be~inning of t~e ne~ financial year. Mr.

Spenkcr, it ~.'ith a rreat deal of nle3surc and rridc that I announce today in b~hc; ·lf of the Cover.1rr:cnt. that l-~e h<Jvc adopted ne1.r c! ;o.•: ··i fication and pay plan systems for the nublic service of thii:s !'rovince>. These classification and pay olans affectin?. :t!Jprox:i:o:Jtelv 10. 000 cmnlo•.'c<'S in the pt:bl:ic service resulted from t1:c year lon~ study that has hc-cn c:1rri ed cut by •:o;'.inet 'l'"ith the aid nnd ad~ice of our oersonal aci~inistr~tion division in the denartrncnt of finance. Governl'lent are the larl?cst s i n:;?.lc eMnloYE'r i.n Ne"foundland.

As part of our continuing effort to iMnrovc the administration of the ou~lic businl'lss 1 ~.'e coi'l~l.ssirmcd nearly tt,•o ye.n.rs ngo thC' st•Jdy of our !'ersonal nracti<;es. '!''•is study recomrnenclcd thnt 1..-c """k" .:! thorour;h ~urvey of our personnel ~ractiscs, uith a vie~ to intrcducin~ th? ~ost mod~rn and un-to-dat~ procedures. The ('-overnr.;ent ;tt:rf>:lted this rccm..,n cnd:tti nn. ,~nd to heln us ,.,.e retained the firm kno\~ is Pu~lic Administr~tion Servi~e nf l.hica~c. just over a year ago to act a'i consult;mts.

At the sac:c tiTT'e l·•P. set un a nersonnei administratiar~ division, to "'!;tch l h<lve alrc2:dv rcfcr!"cd, to -:vork ~dth our consult~nts and to ha;~dle the ecvernmcnts ncrsonncl nrcnr~~es for the future. 'the Co'lernmcnt received the rcnor-t frol'l our cons :~lt<Jnts and our mm officirtls some 11.ttle ti:-:~e a;:;o. Si.nce then, t~e have been studvinr: thi! report intensi\·ely and exarnininr, all the aspects. \~e have r.c.:; adopte,l thC! repor~s basic recommendation, ,,,hich as I hay= said :!.~. th;;t ,, comr>rchcn;dve classification system be introduced for all C"'-nlovees of the oulilic st>rvice.

For example: There 10ere previously z:bout cnC! hu:-~drcd c .i <1.so.i.fi'a~i0n> of st;:;ff in the public service, thn t ·.·.ss nbout the tot a 1 nun:-,er, ":' r ;: ll our T''l"l ic !':ervan ts, all our 1751 .-·

civil servants, one hunrlr~d diff~renr cla~~ific~tiops. ~ill he ~50 c!n~~1ticfttinns.- The budget an~ estit~tes for 1970-71 ,,•hich my collca?,ue, tl:e f:Hnistcr of Finance · -..ill I hope, shortly brinf. before the Hou!le t.:i11 re.,ucst the monPY neccss:ny to implement ~s quickly as possihle this ne1< c-lassification syste:n ~nd the N~-w Pay Plan which goes vith it. The Government ~dll requc,:;t the l!ousC' to authorize pay scales .-.•hich p,enerally speakir.r,, will enable the public service to cornpete in the financial sense vith other employers in ~e t: fcund ' 'nd 1\nd- l .ahraclor.

The Hinister of f(nnnce will orovide details of the Ne~ r~y Pl~n and details on the effects of the classification scheme in his hud~ct speech. It vill take some considcra~le time to imn .! ement the chen?,es t•'lich must be made. As a result of the adontion of this classification sc~em~ '~ arc adY!J~d by our officials that .it will orobably be tl~o to three Month~ before pay adjustments can be utade subject of course to ~revision of the nere,;s;:J.ry funds by this l!ouse.1hese adiustr.1ents uill he retroactive to the fir-st of April, be~ inning of the nel-l financ:i al year.

The New Pay Plan embraces a "yste~ of exnanded increments, expanded increments an~ ~~y a~~a~r:cme~ts. . Thes~ n~w ~ay ~rr~n~ements re~l~ce the present scheme of annual increr:~ents, l·;h:ich the Govermr.t'nt h::tve paid for many years. (let me repeat that , __ ;.tcnce) These n('~·7 pay <!rran;o.ements replace the present scheme of :mnu.·•~ incre!'lents l•hich the Govcn.mcnt have p:o~id for many years. Accordinr,ly these increments will not be p;d,l in m·; d-~-pril as was fornerly the case b<Jt, wiJ.l b~ replaced by the ~!eH Pa'· Plan.

In sayin~ this; ~ay I repeat) that the r.ovcrnmcnt have decided th:1t ne> cMplo:~ee, ;tnd I l~·ave already said there are about Hl, 000 of them. ~!av I - repe:tt, that the Coverr.ment have decided, that nc employee ~~ill suffer any rcducti on in salary as the result of the introduction of the nct.r clnssifi cations. l r;nv<'! that as:!.::r<!nce to the public servi cc c::>n levees a ycnr or more a~o ,.,hen I :1nnounced that the revie~• uas to he cndert~ken.

A small nroporticn of the pu~lic service of the order of three per cent, about three. persons •in a hundred, are notv rcceivin~ ~al"ldcs in excess of that which ..-ill be fi:-:ecl for their position und('r the ne"' r:lassificntioa s1stem. Nevertheless those same eoployees will contin\lc to receive salaries at their present rntes. They t7i11 bot be reduced because of hcin~ rc-cla,;sified. 1752 .-'

o~ a lo~er level. The other ninety-,~~ n per rent of the t~n thou s and,persons. the other ni~1cty-scven ner cent '-7 ~!1 rec e ive ir.rrc:1:;r~ in vary.itt f: a1!1ounts. The classification pl~n is to be extPn~ed tn rn~er e~nloyees of all hosnitals :in the l'rov-;nce. 1 ·!heth~r the hosnital;. arr; o)>nrated bv the Govcrn:nent or not. Let t:le reneat that sentence. we nm-1 have of the entire public service of the Goven,r.:ent, is to be extended this plan, to cover employees of all hospitals in thn rrovince whether or not the hospitals ar~ operated hy the Covemment.

The classificntion exercise has been comnl£'te-d fnr.e,ployees of Covernnent ooerat~d hospitals. This has been do"e :!T' c1 it is nm1 in the final stcges of comnletion ~ith resrcct to e~nlovc~s of hospitals op~rated by ar,encies other th;Jn tho s e of mv colleal\ue, the ~!ini!'tcr of Health. And there are hospitals in the Province not o!Jerated hv hirn. And for those the classification is now in the fin~l sta~~s of bci~~ ccmoleted. This process is exactly the same for emnlo yees of non-Cc\·cTTiment hospitals as that for employees of Government hosnitals.

And it i~ being carried QUt with the full co-operation :md sunnort of the hosnita1 s cnnccrned, actin~ throu~n the Ne>rfounc!land !!ospital <'.ssoci:1t f on. It <;dll t:!k!' <'month or more yet to com~lete the hospital cl~ssification nlan, allo~in~ ~r.~lc time for each employee fer each indjvidual c:nnlo yee to revie1~ his C't:T. rlal';sificntion !n the same ~~ay as each individual employee of the puhlic service has already been given an o pportunity to revie1..' his nc,1 classific r~ tion.

I may say this went on throughout the entire puhlic sentice, ;u;d no,.: cm;,lcyces in non- Covernment hospitals nre to be l!i ·.ren exactly tbu <;:t::•r op!>ortunity. The emoloyeas review of course r,ives him the on1:ortunity to challenge his classification ancl to ~ake his case for a hi~hcr or different ~~assification than that prooosed by the personnel administration :!1'thorit: .cs. Each such request is considered individually and ~~here neress:try annro::JrL;.te zdjustments are made.

The Ne\7 Pa~· Plan for er.mlo yees of :1ll ~<'S)'lit:1ls will also he im'f>lemented as '1Uick1v as possil:-le after this revictJ.nroccs!" has been completed. 1 '!no>.y ::av in nassin~ Your Honour that ~;e h:1vc he ,..,• tuo mL!.ttcrs ~ 1 ~he budget speech which will announce the rates of pay. (2) the classification and no emoloyee will knew what rate of ~av he ~cts na~ed in the hndret s~ccch until he knows what classification he falls into. Therefore, of course, there is ur~ent need most 1753

ur~·.ent need that eve!""l ea:ploycc=,non-~nvernm~nt e~;\Joyt";" t~ 1:·.'ho ·will rec~ive his pay f~;;t_':;l the Govorn::ot"!nt, as possible what his classific~ticn is. so that he rn~y know ~hat his rate of pay is. The rate of pay will he as stated in the bud~ct. 1754

!-1R. ~HA!.l.H009: in hospitals ... ,..,~. ere anr.t:2.1 in c rer.:ents h:1v::: ~lready bee:-. e:t.'.4'arde0, the ar.'l O~ltS of th e re incr~~1 ents ~ill be inclu c:ed in the net-1 pay adjustmr:cnts. also be announced by my colleaf;ue the :-lin!ster of Fin<1ncc ir:. his Budget Speech. And the Govcr:1"'ent in th<! estir.:!tcs to be submltted to the House vith the budget, 1o1ill asked for the mo::<ey t'..:>cessary to implc;;;ent these pay plans as quickly as possible.

Again, as with the pt.:blic service r;cn'" rally, no indiv:dual, now this state!!lent as reference to persons not in the public service, but who's pay nevertheless will come from the puhlic chest, after. it is voted by this House. Again as "ith the public service z enerally no individual ~:ill suffer ' a.ny reduction in sal.:try, as a result of the Clas sifcction Pro:::ess. The teaching and the instruction staff of the Department of Education and Social Services and Rehabilitation have not been covc~ed in the survey.

May I repeat ·that sentence, the teac-hinf! ar.d the ir:struction staff of ti1e Department cf Educatior. and Social Services and Rehabilitation have not beeu covered i~ the survey. These eDploye?.s that is, the teaching and inst~uction staff will coPtinue to be cla s sified in accordance ~ith the classificatioH plan now in effect, In the s e cepartt:!ents. Mr. Spezker, I think, I should point out that the Job C1.assificaticn Procedure vas ~ot designed pri~arly as a salary increase measure.

The ai6 vas and is to put the public service of this Provin~e on a fair and effortable footi~g and t~ pay ~alaries in line ~ith the ~or~ bcin? done. The Government had hoped that t:1is wo~J.d result iT' pay r.;;ise~. T11.:1t is "'~'at 1o1e had hoped. And I am ~x':remely happy to be able to say, th.?t t~is is thE' "'ay, it has turne:d cut. Bt.:t mare 2bout ~hat, of course, ~r hen the budget is brought dm.-n. The introduction of t~e: nev classification a~ d pav plan represents a great step forvard in tr.e development of public ad:ninistr<:tion in NewfoUI>dland and Labrador.

The Govermr.ent hm:e now adopted the most advanced techniques in this manner. w~ believe that this \o.'ill :ccrr,o-Je ar.y possibility that an employee of the public s~rvice ~a7 not receive corrpletcly fair and equitable treatment with respect to his job classif i cation. There are se~eral other aspects of our new personnel management policies ~h!ch we still have under consideration. Pr.d we will announce our decisions on these as soon as possible.

May I repeat, that the :dd-,\pril s:.l .or;: ~. :: e ,; c:~ ~:dch will be received by employees of the Cov e rn~~nt ~i!l not , I ~r :~ = ~; eit, will not reflect either 17ri5 ...

HR. S~t,\LLi iO OD: the normal annual in<:n~,.,.~~t or the r:;:,;.• plan. tut :my increase to t,:hic[l <1 Governnen t e:rp loyec i l' entitled ur,rler the nc\7 plan, ·;.;!.ll tn2- f'd.i.J a~ ::;oon as ail tBc arran~{?ne!!ts are cr•ii. pl~ted, and ~~ill ~c retroactive to the first of April. That is the first day of the n-ot: financial year, which .. as on rr.onday p.:.sscd, (no ~:onday pa!>scd \7ZS the 6th.) the first day of April when the new year he fan. /.nyl ·lay the ne\1 fina-acia1 year began, that is "'hen this, MR. WELLS: On April Fools Day. MR.

S!·!ALU?OOD: The hon. gentler.' .an probabl~· k.t'l.OYTS all about fools. He has had a lot of experience. In conclusion, }(r. Speaker, I wish to say that in the initial step of this progra::!l ,the Govern;T'.ent consulted closely with the Newfoundla n d Government Employees }_<;sociation, N.G.E.A., ~~hose help ~: c greatly prize. AD.d thai: it is the Gcvernnent 's wish and intention to consult further -.·i th that important organization. Mr. Speaker, ~hile I am-on my feet, MR. JOHN CROSBIE: lfr.

Speaker, before the hon. gentleman goes on to another S\tbject, as the Leader of an organized group of the House, I t.;ould like to make so::Je remarks on th:!.s correction state .ment, and raise several questions KR. SPEAY~R: You will recall that the other day, a Leader of a group or the Leader of the Official Opposition could ask questions by way of eJCplanation, and that explanation of course, may or r.:ay not be forthc. o~ing but it T."Ol!ld not be the subject of a co~ent, because if it were, that would be originating a debate. There is to be no debate.

There can be questions asked, whethec the person giving the statement can elucidate or ans~er the question in which will explain some point which as been ~i~sed by an hon. member, but no other remarks, make a few remarks, this is the way it is wor:!ed, I think, But the re~arks are just suf~icient to make his question clear and to be understood by the person who delivering the u.inisterlal statement. lffi. CROSBIE: I understand, Mr. Speaker, then "'e proceed :l.n accordance with Beauchesne. Now, Hr. Speaker, in connection with this, HR. SHAl.Lt\'OOD: And in accordance with the Rulings of ~~r. Speaker. MR.

CROSBIE: And' in acccrdanc.'" r,.;ith the Rulings of Hr. Speaker, 'l.'hich folloi:s Beauchesne. !1r. Speaker, in connection Yi th this fe~1 rct:1arks on the announcetr.cnt ~de by the han. the Premier, this of course is a very important matter, and we are all delighted on this side of t?:"' Hc;;sc to sec chat all civil sen·ants are to nave <::1 increase. Even t~e thl:re~ ;; .. xce\lt ; ·i:o the classification did 1756 .-·

P.mL r:. !!. r:or;::ns: (::I! :i,Sl___!lf !!EAi.:J ~ ) : ;~r. Spe.J::c;:, to a po:!.r!t: of On!er, Sir. Did ~our Honour stJtc in t!lc rulin2 w!zich he ,:! 1..~.~ t r,avE: ~ th.:; ho:t. gentle~a~ could ask question, could n~t rnak~ state~ ; ~~ts unless tt1e stat~~e~ts \r:ere very brief, and as preface to a qu~stion. HR. SPEAKER: I l-:ill re?eat the \m.-cling I die esc, if these are not the exact words this is the tenor : of it. That r- pe rson askin g a qucstio u , h ~ i.s seekinz inforoation in explanation of s c ~e particular point in the ~inist~rial statement.

He will ask his question an d ::-.c.ke enough •_ rcrr.arks to make his question und e rstood and stat:ing the pur ;)osc for w-hich it is asked. Re::>arks rt:lating to ex?laining 1-ihy he is as:.:.iP.f- t:he question. But not to make a speech, there is not to be any remark out s ide those related to his q~estion as to why he W<lnts the explanation a:~d sufficient to make his questicn clear. This is my ~,derstanding of the citario~ in Beauchesne. :HR. CROSBIE: I hardly had a chc.nce to s2y a few -words yet, before the hon. gentleman was so quick to his seat. MR.

SPEAKER: ~Jill the hon. me~::ber relate his remarks to the question. HR. CROSBIE: Thank you, }1r. Speaker, but I was interrupted by the hen. minister. As I 'i7as saying, Mr. Spea~e. r, we are .all glad to hear to the salary increase. But there are certainly so;:,e q•Jestions t ':! ~t co ::~ e to v..ind, Hs= the civil servants the assurance of the Goverm:-,ent that the budget "Will be brought do·.on to implement the ray it'.creases befor<! ar:y atte!l'pt i.s r..ade to ~0 through a general election1 That is one question t ~a t co~es to nind~eP~rfo~. ance in addition to the Province is i~portant.

And with respect to hospital~ workers, Mr. Speaker, "Which is a very i~portant matter, we notice that the hen. the Pre~ier says, that these increas =s where there are increases will be retroactive to April 1st. h~at is the position with Teference to the non-Government hospit~ls, particulaTly the \·:estern Memorial Hospital, and the Gr3nd Falls Hospital were conciliation boards have recommended increases retroactive to almost a year ago, iu their conciliation board report. Is the increases that the han.

Premier is promising now, with respect to those workers only to be to April 1st. 1970 also? ft~d is that to be compulsory? And a further question that arises out of the statement, Mr. Speaker, is this, If the Government is compulsory goin?Lto extend the nev classifications to the non-Government hospitals, what role or function do the unions .- play ,.·ho are certified as bargaining ~gents at t~o of those no~-Government Hospitals. Are they not to be consulted? 'Three, and th<>-re ,.-:J.l be more. Are they not to be consulted about these n e ~ clas s ificat~ c ~ ~ r~l ~ ~~ E c ~ as e incre 2ses?

These ere a few of the important qu-2sticns \lltich col'le to r:.lnd upcn hearin~ this magnificence

Yes. I ~ould !i~e also to say that in ~~~nection with this rultn:; that I gavet not only tccl.Jy, but s~::u~t:irne be fore"' : cce~t1onh n1 \1~f" be strickly ;.;arced so that they are not arf-""'"'ntivc, and they are only seek:!nz explanation on sorr.c stace:co e nt that has already been r.!ade. I say that just for future reference. }!r. Speaker, just cue short·quection, I ar.1 intending to deal with it later on in ~y speech, with reference to pnlicc, firemen, ~nd penitenta:ry workers would they be in this category noH, or t.•ould that. be something separate apart from the Gover:-:nent E!!:ployees · Association?

MR. Sl~L~OOD : Mr. Speaker, I nade this stateRent today really for the I civil servants of the public service, ""d all these ans•:ers will be fo"rthco:ning vhen the estimates are brought do~~. PRESENTH.'G PE.1ITIO~;s MR. S~1ALUiOOD: Before Your Honour calls the next order, will the Howoe bea::- with me whi~.e in behalf of all hon. members of the House, I extend a word of lo.•ann welcome to SO!!le t-.veltre Grade XI students of Brother Rice High School here today visiting t.he people's House 101i th their teacher, Nr. Harold Harris, I believe that the young Nc~~foundlcn<.!ers in question arc in that gallery.

And e,__g:-oup of thirty-five Grade X studo::nts from St. Ed;.:ard's High School O!l Bell Iel<md, with their teacher ~:r. Patrick CrAig. These forty-sevea young Ne~fo~dlanders fro~ St. John's and Eell Island are visiting us today to see how th~ people's House •works. And I ~:.ippose to see if to visit here will helfl them to make up their minds as to whe~. her or not they 101ould like to come l:ere, not in the stranger's g~lle:ry but do~-n he't"e. on the floor occupying seats and chairs and desks on the floor of this Eouse, as elective members.

Well, if th4t is 2~e ~f the reasons why they .are here, let me tell them that it will take just more than one great visit to the House, to enabl _e thee to make up thzi~ mir.ds, whether they would like tc be here or not. Our House of Assembly is something like our Ne<.•fot."ndland climate, it _is never fhe. s=e. fro~ one year to the other, fro~ one fficnth to the other, from one week to the other, from one day to the other, and you ~i~ht almost say, from one hour to the other.

You maybe sitt:l .ng in the gallery for an hour or two, and go after awhile. and be a bit bored, that the liouse seems to be terribly ta':led, and not the circus perhaps, not the arena, not the squared circle that you might have exrected it to be from ••hat you had read or ~.e :'.c:c -:-f 'IJhat g;oes on here. 17r.i8 ---·

haj?pen at any POi;,ent. !'o~ecne loses his temper, his terr.:>('r is loosen by ci lt:HLGL~ LllaL :-i u~ : c O(.hec- r.u~rnOcr rr.a~~es... .it St!:"lkes tnea on the ~·rcng nerve and the next thing he is up in fla,ing indif.nadon, ~fr. S~eat~r, to a point of order. ..A.nd he objects to ~o;hat has bee:\ said, and for a rnor.:ent you \>6uld not kno~1, but the old rule should be brought back.

All the rules in the House of Commons, at ~estminster were this kind of parliareentary gove.nment was bo:::n, and developed and brour.ht to a 1rreat pitch or pre .fection, in the House of C01r.:nons, the two sides of the !louse !-,ave to be separated, ~o:ith a broad asile do1.-n the middle, no., how bro<Jc? How ~<:ide should this asile oe?

The len?th of tt>'o sw-ords, so that t:hen tLe members who sat there on this side, all Yore their stmrds, and the members on that side who ~1ore their s'l-.'ords, if an argument arose, and they lest their temper they could ¥-'ipe out their swords and stab each other, because the asile was too wide.

So!!letimes in this Chat:1ber on~ waul.! wonder in stead of a wide asile separating the two sides; it mieht be better to have a small mesh wire fence running right frorn ceiling to floor, two of them r~~ning vertically so that, maybe one in the centre cf the floor so that ir.kvells, or bottles or books or other things could not be thro~~ across from one side to the ot~er. l.lthough, such a fence as ti•at, Mr. Speaker, unless it vP.re an electronic: fence, or something of that nature or unless ?-!r.

Speaker t<ere ve:;ted by nature, with powers "Which he does not presently have such a fence as that would not prevent the verbal rock and stones and sticks that gets slung across the floor, . against each other's side, I am only jokin&· This is a most dignified assembly in all Ne,;foundland. There is nothing else like it here, there is never a cross 1;ord or hardly ever, there is never an arf-L't:lent! or a row or hardly eve~, say not more than four or five in a day.

But I mean it is not a place where there is a row going on all the ti~e. ~e ·are dignified.representives of the people. 1\'e hope Ye are as dignified as the people the::1selves. And we hope that young ~:evfoundlanders corning in here will find the::1selves welcomed by us. Anc happy to spend a while here; I know that they would almost much rather be back in school. They hate to come a~ay from . the classrocrn and co~e into a place lik~ this to waste their time. How much more profitable they feel, it could be for them, if they were back in the classroo:n, no doubt' they are right ahout that.

Now ye al~ays end up this word of velcomc to students, our futu=e bosses our future rrasters, future r.:a~ters of };cwfoutldland, I "lways wind up by giving 175D

£~..':.: .. .- !AL~-~OClD: <in cxa;nple of Parl:!.<tr.-,-3rtt:ar:: Procedu::-e here, t.~hen I thre-w out a stern challenge, lf the ne·~ .. :spap~rs. ~·f!re dc scribinp> they \.~auld say, I blasted the Cypv~.!.t~u~.~, bt:cause tfley lov.e. this ~-ord, blast··~ 1 hurled a chaJ.len£'e a~ them. I flung one at their feet. This is the Hay it \!auld be described. I am just going to fling, a challenge to the Leadzr of the Op?osition now.

And I am going to dare him here toduy, I wonder has he got the nerve to ge t up and contradict nc. l~d go against what I an saying, when I say that we are delighted to have these splendid young r.e1<foundlartders here, intelligent and goocl looking, and patriotic, high classed Newfoundlanders, I dare the Opposition to contradict that. And to say, that I am wrong, 1-1hen I speak for the vh~le House and express a word of "Warm welco Gle to all these young Newfoundlanders, now if the Leader of the Orposition has the nerve he will get up and contradict me. MR. A.'<THONY J. HURPI!Y: Nr.

Speaker, I may not have the "-'Ords of the Premier, but I have the sincerity I think to welcooe these young students here today. I presume they all took liability insurance after reading the paper today, and listening to the radio last night. It is a very interesting thing, and I do not know if it is significant to seem the umpire and chief the referee and chief of the Rewfoundlm•d Rockey Association here today; I do not k..."lot.: if he i5 gvillg to fill a role or not. MR. F.ICK:~~~: Is he here? MR. M\J!l.PHY: Mr. Joe Byrne, and I an: glad to see Joe from Grand Falls. But, Mr.

Speaker, I do not know if you called him in to assist you, but I am not taking away anything fro~ your ability to trun this House. But, quite seriously I am happy indeed to welcome the pupils from Brother Rice Hibh School who happens to be in the greatest district, in this great ?rovince of Newfoundland, that is in the District of St. John's Centre. And another wonderful District of Bell Island, I know my hon. friend over here will get up and challenge my saying, that the Bell Island District is the finest district in the Province.

But it is a wonderful thing for the young people to be here. }nd I trust that they will not only 17fH)

--· ....,~ ..... 0 0 .. '\..o6'- ... not only their attendance he~e tod~y ~~~ich is sirn!ficaat of their inter~st in what is happer.ing in tl' -: s Province, bD~ I certain l y hope t hey r ead and l is te n t o ~hat is happecing, be c ause ver y sh or tly, the r e "ldll be a new type of governillc n t take cv~r in this Pro·o~ ince and w-e wocl.d like t hese young gentleT!!en t o kno·-~ ;;hat our policies a r e and what they v ill be. You -w-ill notir.~ that the Leader of the Opposi~ion is. not fig".lra.i in any of these sens .a tjon:?.l outbursts in the paper.

He are the conservative business like type of goverruuent. \·~e do not enter into foolish arg ul:!ents . We are just here planning fer the future of this great Province. Mr.' Speaker, I am very happy indeed to join with the PL-emier and I am sure with all members of the House to t.-elcorr•c he·re tod<!y these young students and say , "-will you no come b~ck aga i n." Thaclk you. !1R. NEARY: Mr. Spe aker, much of the criticis:n of education in the past has been as e':!lphasis on academic and theoretical training.

Sir, the cha~ge in Newfoundland and Labrador to a more realistic approach is very evident in the large nmr:ber of st~dentsatter.ding the current sittings of the House of Assembly; es p cci~lly fro~ ny o~~ district of Bell Island. This gives th~m, Mr. Spe~~er, eAperience in person, rather than 111erely rc;;cling books on democo:atlc procedures_.in practice and history of Newfoundland in the caking. My congra~ulations, Sir, must go to rey colleague the l'd.!list.:r of Educatioi'l and the tec.chers of St.

Ec:l10ards "High School, especially Pat Craig for an ~pproacq to instructions that was unknown in the day, when '· was :> student on Bell l5lan-i. HR.

WINSOR: Before you proceed witl~ further Orders uf the Day, Sir, and with your pe~.Ussi~~. 1 ~ould like ~o draw to the attentio~ of this House an c.nnounce ment made by the hon. the Hinister for Social Services a~d Rehab1litac~_on in which be stated that a gentle!!'.an by the name of Andria5 Tugla~~na of ~2kkovik, Labrador,~as a~arded the Carnegie Hero Fund Com:D:f.ssion Bronze Hedal and in addition $500 in recognition of his bravery in disarming a man who had already shot on~ person and indiscriminately firing guns all over the place.

Now, Sir, if you can imazine a ozn who had gone . be3erk, with a revolver or some other gun, loading and unloading indiscri~inately in a cor.munity 1761

end find onL~ !l'.;J.n, although he w;:;s a:;sisted by sc,·er"-'1 other ":enbers of the co=unity, but ~r. Tugla·;ir.a, \.'i.tbcut fear fo·~ his oo;.."!l sa[ety, r...tshed ir. ar:d disarmed this beserked r-.<:>n wi:o had nlready killed one person. I hove kr:mm Andrias Tuglavina for t>:e:1ty-fivc years of more. lie is one of the settlers that ~·as ccved fro::~ Hebron and resettled in Nakko·.rik. He is a chief elder for the Earavian Eiss:ions and an excellent type of ;:~ citizen.

So, Sir, I vas delighted that a constituent of mine, although under unfortunate circumstances was awarded this 2.\.7ard and I think it is the first such a~ard to be made to any person in Newfoundland and Labrador. ~· C}:_L_!.Al!A~{: :1-:r. Speaker, I regret to report to the House and because ' the infor=tion only car:.~ to :r.e ju.st b<!fore the House sat. I rr.ust do so orally. I do not have copies to ta~le. I reg:re~ to report en a bunker sea oil spillaze problem that has occurred in the Bow·ri:'\g Park area of St. John's.

About 3:')0 a.m. this morning a Colden Eagle oil-truck 'Was delivering fuel oil t!) the hospital for Mental and t;ervous Diseases and spilled so;:;:.e nueber of gallons on the ground. Apparently an outlet on the truck was not closed after an earlier delivery to the sanatorium c.nd the operator failed to notice it until an estimated 200 gallons had sp!'ead o·;er the :snaw on the grou:-.d.

They say that the coopany moved very quickly to clc<m up as much of the oil as i:: could and then sprearl fresh gravel in tr.e c.rea, .But the melting sno~>r rar, into a small stream that flows from the hospital £rounds to the nearby Waterford River. The river runs through Bo~ring Park and in this way the oil reached the habitat of some ducks, geese and parti~ularly the royal swans in the perk. I just co~e from B~wring Park, }'r.

Speaker, and I may inform t~e House that vildlife officials of this Govern~ent and the Provincial Chief Veterinarian as well as wildlife off.:.cials of the Go-.;en1:i!ent of Canada and the De1'art1:1ent of 1'1.ansport of Canada were assisting park officials and emp ~oyees of the company to CC1pe ~'ith the problem, while measures were taken to refl'.ove as much oil as ~cssible from the water. The affected birds were being 'ounded up for treatment that might save their lives. wnen feathers beCOI;J.e soaked with oil, Mr. Speaker, the bird is in danger of perishing fro~ eA~osure during to lack of insulation.

If they can be sheltered in time, treated in warm surrou•1dings, there is a good chance of saving the~. I ~~ght report on behalf of my colleague the ¥.inister of Health that early this ro.rnL:-.g unsuspecting hospital e!I!ployees 17G2 -·

April 9, i970 Tap~ no. 3% Page .3 into the hospital building .and co"nsider.able damage has been caused to the floors and the floor coverings. There has been contact vith the company and I talked "ldth Con;uander Erc~:wr just before coming into the House. Tne company have taken full responsibility for .any damage whether to the hosptial, the hospital grounds or in any-..:-.1y to Em.:ring Park and are in fact already involved in cleaning up the siutation both in the hospital and certainly in the park area.

I might add to th&t, S:l.r, tnat specialists have been brought in from the refinery at Holyt·ood and the p.anager of the refinery is in charge of the company's personnel at Bowring Park and. in addition to that, specialists in the provision of flushing agents and detergents have been brought in to assist, to try to clean this situation as quickly as possible and indeed before the oil dissipates do~~ river and causes, perhaps, other trouble below the park area vhere it now is impounded by slush ice in the pong. I m:f.ght say, t_oo, that I have bl!cn in c.onUet1;aticn ..,..ith his Worship the Mayor of St.

John's to offer any assistance the Government can provide in cleaning ur this pretty mezs~ ~nd pretty unfcrtuuate ~ituation at tl1e beautiful Bo,.,ring rark. ~CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a Point of Privilege, a ~~tter that affects the breach of privileges of the Eouse, not just anyone mec~ar of the Houst;.. I refe-.: your Hon.:>ur first to Be2uchetme, page 1!)3 or 101 first: "willul misrepr~s~ntation of the proceedings of mesbe=s is an offense of the sa~ character a.s a liheL.

As early as th~ 22 April, lc99, the Commons of England resovled that the publishing of ~he names cf the meribers of this Rouse and refl~cting upcn them and misreprP.senting their proceedings ln parliaa::mt is a brea!:h of the privileges of this House and destructive of the freedom oi 11arliament." On page 103, Sir Robert Atldns sometimes Lord Chief Barmof the Exchequer says: "the Co=.ons right and privilege so far extends that ~ot only what is done in the very House sitting, in the Parliament but whatever is done relating to them during the Pa.::lia111ent and sitting of Parliament, is no~here else to be punished but by themselves or succeeding Parliament although done out of the House." :Hr.

Speaker, the breach of privJ.l e ;;e I ao referring too is a mis- 1703 ...-·

representation, willful misrepresentation of the proceedings of this House of "Conversation 'ldtb the Premier" b:-oadc:1st this morning at 10:15 a.m. - on that program , there 1o1as complete misrc;;>:::esentation by the han. the Premier of 1o:hat happened in this House yes tcrday a::-.d of ~1hy it happened and how? Among the representations '1<3S an allegation that the Speaker ..,as going to have to take action against me for example, that was .one "f the misrepresentations,· that I -v:as sick, that anyone attendiu.g the House could see that I \>'as sick, a."'lother lihtd '.

I am quite ready to subc;it to psychiatric examination by any r~putable psychiatrist, if the hon. the P!"cmier will and I have no doubt who the psychiatrist will report is sick, Tnere v.ere other mi~represen~at5ans there as to how the incident had arisen. There were tnisrepresentaticns made as to '~hat had happened in t~e House yesterday, o;h.;n this questicn arose at a meeting last night. I, therefore';> l!love Hr. Speaker that the follo•..ring motion, as I am required by the rules to do: "that radio statiou.

VOCH be directed to bring before the House a rccc-rding of that program knO\o.'n es: 'Conversation 'li"ith the Premier' broadcast on Thursday, A?ril 9, 1970 at 10:15 a.m. to deternine, if therein the ~on. the Prerr~ar udsrepre~ent£d the procaed!ugs of rr~mbers of the Hot>se of Assembly and if such represer.tatirm be shown that he be directed to withdra..r th£. same ar.d apolo?:ize to the House, therefore." MR. SMALL\o.'OOD: -------- t!r. S;?eaker, if I were to com:.nent on ::he roo !:ion of the bon. ger.tle=n• it wo1..ld be ::~erci.y to sJy tnat he has uow misrepresented co~plete!y what I sai~. MR.

CRI)SBIE: Well -.e can listen to the t?.p~ at'.d see. MR. SPV..KE3.: I vili ta~e the mattP.r under cldvisemr!nt 'l.nd it will be dealt with a little bit later in the session, i~ this sitting. PRESENTING Pt:TITIONS MR.-l JOHN HAH01~E'f: }!r. Speaker, I beg leave to pre,.;ent a peti tier. from some 25~ residents of the !!orse Cove Line in my district. This araa in question runs fro~ the - its junction with the Topsail High~ay to and including part of St. Philips.. Sir\ the House kno~s with the paving " of the Tnorhur/J Road a few years ago, as far as St. Phillips, the end o! pavement came at that place · at St.

Phillips and leaving a dirt of gravel road from that point on to 1764

April S , 1970 the junct1 on ot: t he Hor s e Co·:e L~ne ir. th.;: Topsail <::i ch..:ay . This h~s creat ed a rea l p roblc~ fo r t~e rosiden~~ of the Hers~ Cove Line 3nd of the seltl.em cnt of St . 'l:h01".3$ a11d partly for the r e~ici~nts of St. Phill~ps . \li t h t he du:o;t in the su = .::r t".Cnths and c!lc great al:lOunt of traffic , ~~::: . Speaker , t hat uses that, it is a l oop actual!)' co =~::~dng fro::: Si:.

John's wi t h :!-.e Tno r bun Ro:1d and arc=c:! to its j unction "--i t:!\ t.he Topsail Hish~ay ; t he cus t: or t he t r ea t aoount of t raffic on that ro:ld curing the su~::: · .::r and the alt!Dst impossible task for t he Dcpart ncn t of H i t;h~rays t o keep t hc t ~;ravel r oad in proper cond i tion <iu.-ing c.he spring and during t he rain}' season in th is Province .

I t hink the prayer of t he petition is vell fo~.::-~ded and that the residents ask t ha t t he r oad in question be ~ psraded and paved this c o~~ns seaso n . 1 give ::ry 'Wholehe.erted supported to t hi s peri J:1on, and ask t hat it be laid on the t able cf the House ~ nd referred to the ce?arc~~nt to ~h i ~~ it rela tes. KR . ~ruP~HY: ~~ - Speaker, 1 ~ould l i ke to add ~y support to tha t petit ion. I t hink it i s a very 1765

April 9, 1970 Tape ~J97 Page 1 HR. :·fl!RPHY: -·---- add my support to th_at p;t:itio:l, anri 1 think it is a very ~·ell d~servecl plea that has been out up. That nart of the Horse Cove Line is used very frequentlv bv peoole from Conception Bay, who perh~ps w~nt to get the Eastern Shore, Portugal Cove so forth and so on, it takes a lot of traffic off the Topsail High,;ay.

These people have been in touch with me from time to time, and I told them that I would support the petition when it was presented by the member fer the district, and I feel that it would be a very fine drive there, a scenic drive as well as being very practical if this road were paved • . HR. SPF.A..'<ER: It is moved and seconded that this petition be received and referred to the department to which it relates. Those in favour ''aye" contrary ''nay". Carried. Presenting Renorts of Standing and Select Committees: Ans~ers to Questions: NR. S~C.!..LLWOOD: Hr.

Speaker, Question No. {24fl) on the Order Paper of A11ril 6, in ~he name of the hon. the memher for St. John's F.ast F.xtern. Question No. {294) on the Order Pane:- of April. 8, in the n<lnle of. the hon. the rr.er.1her for St. John's East Extern.

Question No. (315) on the Order Paper of Anril 9. in the name of the hon. the member for Burin. ,\nd the ans..,er is that on the staff of the Department of the Auditor General on ''arch 31 past, there were the follo~ing: The Auditor l~neral, the Deputv Auditor Ger.eral, tvo Directors Grade V, three Directors Grade 11, four Directors Grace 1, s~x officers Grade V1, four Officers, Grade V, five Officers, Grade 1V, five Officers, Grade 111. One Shorthand-Tyoist Grade 1V, making a total of thirty in addition to the Auditor General and the Denutv Auditor General. MR. RO!IERTS: Hr.

Sneaker, I have the ans1•ers to some of the ouestions asked to me. I have the rtnswers to some of them Sir. r.u~stion No. (328) asked by the hon. member for Burin. The ans••er to Part (1) is yes: ;md althoup.h the hon. memher did net ask, I might add that 1•1C exnect the llouse to be completed hy ~!ay 15. There ~ere a few hrief work "'toprage!l I am told durin~ the ~~nter, because of ~ir.ter conditions. The ans~cr to Part

(2) Sir does not arise. The ansuar to Part (

J) does not arise. The ansver to Part (4) is ~r. Seymour Pyke of :1ount Pearl, l am not sure if he is inco:rpora::ed as a company, but he is the gentleman vith '>hom '~e de<1l. He ,,,as the low ::ender i7G6

April 9, 1970 Ta!>e f/3')7 Pa~e 2 of the Housing Cor poration when ~cwfo : mdlan • : anci Lahrarlor call e d the tenders. Hr. Speaker. There ~·ere 740 in-patients at the llosoital for · Hental and Nervous Diseases. 485 of them for male, 255 for fe~ale. I should add Sir that that number is dotm from 888 in July 19G8, and it has been as high as 950. I arn not sure if it was durinr.; the period of 1o:hich my hon. friend was responsible for administration. It has been do~~ to 88S as of July 1968, when I inherited the depart~ent from the other sh~dow minister of Health. It has been reduced since then '1r.

Speaker throu~h a combination of an improved . boarding-out program, and the openinr.; of improved psychiatric facilities at St. A•·1.thony, Corner !\roo!:, Cr. ace General Hospital, the St. Clare's Hosp:!.tal, and hopefully again soon at Central Net•foundland Hospi tai. Part

(2) Hr. Speaker, I know the hon. p,cntle"'an is int~rested. He asked the questions, he should kno\J the ans,..crs. Part (2) nr. Speaker. Th~ hon. gentleman seeks, I try to give it to him. Part (2) there \Jere 219 in-patients, resident in the Topsail Road Division of t!-le hospital. Part

(3) There are some 490 patients received treato.cnt rc~ula!'ly on an cut-patient basis from the hospital durinp, the past year. Part {4) With respect to in-ratients, app-roximately 300 Mr. Speaker, c]assifi~d rr.e<licallv as defective or safferi,~ from chrcni~ mental illness. A?proximately 200 more are classified as requiring care. because of senility. Hr. S!'eak~r ()uestion No. (341) again today's Order Paper, again the meM!Jer for St. John's Hest. The ans....,er to Part

(1) Sir, the~e is no ... ait~ng list of persons either voluntarily committed, ~!l no or con1mited by reason of certification. There waiting list of persons who are mentally ill and treatable. All such oatients are admitted to the hos~!tal immediately. 1 As of April 1970. there ":as a ~•aitlng list of a'Pproximately 140 senile cases. some of these may b~ on the ~1aiting list of other ins~i.tutions as for examole the Hovles Home. Part

(2) Hr. Speaker, the H~ntal Hospital, the Hospital for ~!ental and Nervous Diseases has never been rated by aecreditation authorities. Part

(3) As of April 1, 1970, there ~ere about .240 in-patients at the hospital '~ho 1o1ere susceptible of improveoent as a result of .osychitric treatment to the extent that the medical staff feel that they may one day be discharged. The renainin~ 500 in-patients }!r. Speaker, while there is no medical reason to extract that they ~o~ill imProve to the 17G7 ...

April 9, 1970 Taoc (/197 Page 3 extent that they can be discharged a~d a11o• red to ,..etl!rn •_c- ~') ·~:!.c!:y :;;~ :: normal basis. Those 500 p~oclc Sir, m<ly be suSCi:'f.ltihlc to lif'litcd imnrovcment to psychiatric trc;:;tment. !t is possible ~lr. Speaker, that some e>[ these people may be discharged to our supervisinp, hoardin~ prop,ram. Part (4), there were fourteen medical doctors on a fnll-ti.me staff of the hospital as of April 1. Seven of them are oualified as psvchi.atrbts ·'1-;ith varying degrees of qualifications.

I am uroud and hapoy to say Sir, this is the largest total of medical staff that we have had in several years at least. HR. CROSBIE: Ir~ connection uith the nart (2) of the que s tion: !f the ' hospital has not been rated what does the deDartrnent or the admini~trat{on of the hospital rete as their in-oatien.t capacity? MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I cannot <~ns<·tt?r that speci fic:ally. I cou.lcl under- take to find out if the hon. ?;entleman '"anted to ask on the Order Paper, but I woulJ say ''e have had as high as 'l51) patients.

I am told that 'durin~ the hon. gentlem~~ 1 S tenure of this office, I Yould assume that was crowded capacit)', indeed it must have been, because the hospital even no~t ~~t". Speaker, is crowded, and of couTse it 11eeds subst<>.ntial :h:-,proveme n t as the l.cvem!llent have long indicated, and lvn).?; planned to do. Ouestion Ko. (34:?) ag::Jin. fro!!l the hen. gentleman froa St. John 1 s \~est. He asks about dru)'.S and on "hat basis the Government sell dn1gs.

The answer is as folJ.m,s Sir: That dru~s in sold to out-patients. cottage hospitals and throur,h the Central Phar~~cy and generalJ_y by the Governr,ent are at list prices, l£ss t-wenty percent. Those sold at retail in Dru~ Sto~es are of course !old generally at list pr!ces 1 plus a prescription fee in cases where a prescription is being filled. In other words Nr. Spea\<;.er, the differential is of the order of twenty percent, higher than that in cases ~~here a prescdptio!l is being Hlled. The bon. gentleman will recall Hr.

Speaker, that a long standL1g ~ollcy of the Government that vhere a drug store, a retail drur. store is in operation, the Governr.-.ent do not supply drugs throu~h Cottage Hospital or other facilities, 10-i.th one exception Sir, when neople are receiving permanent expensive drug treac~ents, as for example i~tsulin or some of the tranquillizing drug;; there as suppl!ed to some central pharmacy. That of course again Mr. Soeaker we are not speakir.g of patients '1-'ho receive drugs assisted by the Department of l'u"b!ie ···f4elfare. Part (2) of that question Sir. 17()8 ,.

question. I would like t0 ~et thls cle~red up. Did he iust indicate that it >-'as the !'Olicy of the G;:,-.,ernr.:ent not to supply druj:',s in <ElY areas o;.:here there was retail pharmacies, excent; and did I r,ct or.e or two exceptions? Would he give me the exceptions a)':ain? KR. ROllERTS: Generally spea!d.nl' Xr. Speaker, there is only one exception and that is where a pers::m - for e>::ar.rple I could name for the hon. gentleman people in his C';,'ll district 1.·ho are receiving drugs fron Central Pharmacy.

For example insl!l:1n, which can be an exnansive course of treatment, and of course is for life, which Your Honour realizes, if the hurden is too great, ve do Sti?ply from Central Pharmacy at lm:er costs. Sorr.e of the tranquill izing drugs, ff a pecson is on an extensive t:-eatr;,cnt of harbituates or a:npha"ines for medical reasons only, I hasten to acld, then 1ve will supply. He have had some interesting cases particC~larly in liurr.:,er East district, no reflection to the membe~. Hr. Sneaker, I make no insinuations about P.ur..ber East, St. Barbe South or any other district.

I said we have had some interesting cases, and any han, member wishes to discuss them Privatel y I would be delighted to. 11R. RELLS: I will ignore that. but they are sunplied ·at a price? HR. ROBERTS: ------ At a price yes, "'r. Speaker. Pan (2) of that question, there has been a change. Up until March 31, 19fi'i Sir, dru;;s being suoolied by tl,e Government were ,-,old to out-pati.ents at cost plus ten ver"cent. In other ...,ords the cost to us Mr. Speaker, olus ten percent, and that ten oer-cent ,.as im:~r.ded to cover han.-Jling charges, exnP.nses and so on.

These lm~ nrices resulted in several losses to th~ ~ov~rn~e~t durin~ the period which my hon. friend wa; responsible for the ad~inistr3tion department, and at that time the Government -. !1R. CROSBIF;_: And what ~bout !Jr<ovious to that? MR. ROBE'l.TS: Mr. S;lea'<er, ;:>r-evious to that: ~-Then my han. friend was in charge again we were suffering losses. This policy had been in practice HR. CROSEIE: Hr. Speaker-, is the han. gentle!nan answering the question, or is he trying to make a cheat> crack?

I w-as 'lin-tster of Health for nine months, and wh;J.t .he is referrin~ to is the nolicv of the Government for twenty years before that. ~. ROBERTS: ilr. Speaker, I am trying to an:;<.·cr the question. HR. CROSRIE: You are not. ~\R. ROBERTS: ~!r. Soea!.:er, - ---- of greater elucidation I will try to refer to ~IV hon. friend, who took no

A ti 0 <J7() ?a r, 5 iou ar e c ht c k - s K t nn ~a . I would ril~ h er be thick -sk ~nn-::ci t h;m t!:i ck- hc;;ccd . Thc!i~ lov prices '1:: . Sr>~ake r , result ed in P- l oss to the r.c>.'<!rn m.<" ~ . ;\ccor clin~ l y the Cov~ r nme n~ to~it: effect from Aptil 1 . a yc r and so~!e ca;·s i!fO, 'ber,a:'l to s e ll c!nJgs at re:ail prices le='>s t".le'lt V pel'ce n t ~rich no prescri:::tion fees be ' nY. di.d charged . In so ~::e ca ses :!r. Spe ke r, thi s z: co !esent or an in~Te.a se. in r he p ri ce of dru ~s f rom the r ec 'pi c nt .

And f in2l ty for to day Sir, ~it h r ~ierc nce t o QuestiO:'I ,;p , (343) asked Gf.ai n by rhe o·\ . otnd thin - ski nn ed me be r f or S_c . Jo hn's !les The ~ ns ·.r~ r is as follo ws ~l_t . !'?e ake :: : XR. CRO StH~ : C.o on thick- h2nd . HR . KOBf.RTS : ~lr. Spe ake r, 1 t ole! t he. hon . gentl erun I :.:ou d r ather be t ick - ~kin:tec! t ha n t!t'ick - he;;;rlcrl . I a i!;ree "'ith hi::~ . I <JOuld rather be thick- skinne d tha n t hick-h co ded . MR . CROSBIE: You are both . ~!R . RO!\E RTS : If t he hon . ~entleman wants ~e to answer the qucs~ o n I ... ~11 be ha~py to.

Durin~ the 'fi nancia l 1770 ~- ,..

April 9th, 1970 Tape 393 .m- 1 HR. ROSEP.TS: $1,510,555. has been spent under this subhead. As the han. ge.lltler.:an will recall the books are still opea bec2usc the books for the Government are not closed until A?ril 30th, the bills are attributed back, ve receive bills, in other vords, daily that are for the period ending March 31st.

The system used: to de t«rm:!.ne vhether or nnt 2. person qualifies as an indigent l:'O that he c<m receive drugs paid for by the Governncnt is the syste;n which was administered by the officials of my colleague, the Minister of Public Welfare, TI1ese are the regulations laid down under the authority of Social Assistance Act in t~e published regulations. HR. WELLS: May I ask a supplementary question, Hr. Speaker? 1-Tould those drucs then be supplied by Central Pharmacy or would they b~ s~pplied by local retail drug stores on prescription through welfare dcpartn:ent orden;. MR. ROBERTS: .Again, Mr.

Speaker, that vari!'s. ~'-Usually vhere there is a drug store they ara supplied through the drug store at an agreed rate between the Government and the drug stores concerned in some cases and this again 1-:ould refer back to such thin2;s as the insulin or the barbituates, we supply them. Some of the problems we have, had are being supplying more than,because of paper work hang-ups, these are the ones in particular i~ the Humber District. I think the bon. member m.ay kno·~· the type of problems 1.1hich I am referring to. MR.

BURGESS: With reference to the remark that more tranqilizing drugs are issued in Humber East, would it be fair to sa7 that it is because of its proximity to Ruruber West. MR. ROBERTS:~~. Speaker, I did not say there were more drugs issued.in, I did not say there were 'inore drugs issued in Eur.,ber · East. If the hon. gentleman wants, I will undertake, ! will undertake to get the figures for Labrador West District vhich has lacked tranquility for some time. Mr.

Speaker, part two of the question: As of the current date the bills i~ the h2nds of my officials that have been received and not been paid 2mount to $57,306. As the House will appreciate, Sir, that is a very s~all percentage of $1.5 million. these include one account valued at ap?roxi~tely $5,400. ~hich we have not paid because the gentleman concerned feels that he should charge us at a higher rate than any other drug store in Nc.,·foundland. We have taken issue with the gentl~man, Sir, and we ore now negotiating it. 17'71 .....

A?rJl 9th, 1~70 Tape 398 J}[ •• 2 Y.~. \-:C:LLS: Is thcr~ some kind of en agre~:n~nt? MR. R03ERTS: ·Yes, Hr.

Speaker-, there is an agrce:r.ent between the Government a.'ld the Newfound1nnd Phanr:aceut::!c<:l Association which I believe rep::esen.tG the reteil drug stores in the Province. ·:we pay stendun:l list prices, the list I have not got it here but it is a public list o:r a published list, again a cm:u~n practice. \.lith the exception of that one account, Sir, ~<rh:!.ch my officials received late in the month of t'.arch, all remaj .ning bills the $57,000, have been receh·ed du!"ing the last ten days, All accounts received before then have been pai'd.

The specific ansver to the hon. gentlemans question is that one hundred-per-cent of the accounts payable have been due for a period of less than thirty days. That is all I have for today, Mr. Speaker, the next install~ent will come totnorrc<r or Monday. The hon. gentleman is indcfatigae.!e~_vith.:.his quest:!.ons. MR. _ CROSBIE: Do not worry they will keep coming . MP •• MURP!!Y: Am I given to understand that fhere was only $57,000. outstandi::1g up to the end of March 19701 MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, · there are as of today only $57,000. O'.ltsta'l'ldir..g with reference to that period.

We have spent in all over $1.5 million ~ince April l, 1969, in other words the fiscal yP.ar ~f 1969-70 the total ccst would be.$1.5_Billion plu~. plus ~ybe of the $57,000. ~~ybe a few thcusancl s.re attributable to the ?eriod ending March 31st. In other words, Mr. Speaker, ' there are no bills outstandir.g. The hon. gentleman made a q~estion publicly a loieek or ten days ago leaving aside that one acco .unt, that $5,400 • the one particular accour..t which he may or ~~y not have r.entioned, all bills have . been paid, all bills have been paid- the $57,000. or ones that have come in io the past ten days. MR.

MURPriT: Just another question, Mr. Speaker, to get things straight for ~e. ~~en does the Government consider a bill payeble - five ~onths, six months, not thirty day& certainly Heavens, or sixty days or ninety Jo.ys? MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, the bill is payable, essuming it is in order of course, when it is received by us and all bills, I am told, all bills ve have received that are payable, that are in order, that is the $5,400. ve do not recognize, it is lesg than tha~, all bills·have paid. Cheques have 1772 -·

April 9th, 1970 Tcpe 393 JX- 3 MR. ROBERTS: been di·a:m by the offi.ci.Jl s of t he DepnrC:r.i!nt o£ Finance, the t::heques ha ve been o ;liled, I c.SS <!mc they have been received, I assuo;;;o they have been negotiated but all bills, the only bills 'We have,! am tole!, we:: have had for less than ten days, Sir. I speak as of a current date, .today, yesterday or 'Whenever this was done. MR. DA' ... T: Hr. Spea.ker, I table 'tne answer to que s tion 305 asked hy the hen. t:e:nbcr for Fortune, on the Order P~per o.f Wednesday, April 8th. MR. STARKES: M~.

Speaker, I have the answer to question 196 asked by the hon. ~e~bcr for Gande~. The question is in fouz: parts. Has the c:inister received representation f::om Gander ChaUJber of Corr--oerce requesting installation of under-passes on the Trans Canada Highl-'ay adjacent to the to~? The answer is yes. Has any engineering York been cocmenced on this project? The ansYer is an investigation has been made. Does the minister agree that such under-passes are necessary? The minister agrees that S'.Jch under-passes are desirable. If so, has a decision been taken? ~o definite decision has been taken todate.

The answer to question 197 asked by the hon. Leadet of the Oppositlon. Did the minister write to the Minister of Social Services ~>d Rehabilitation indicating his approval to the letters, reco~endations for roads end bridge improvement on Bell Island. The ans>:ers, .- letters and other corm-.:unications. between Cabinet Ministers are priviliged. If so, is he aware that this letter vas made public by being posted in a StQre on Bell IslandZ The answer, no such reply was made public by being posted in a store on Bell Island. Did he give his consent to this letter being made public?

The answer to that is, no such letter exists. HR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have the ans'.oler to question 319 on today's Order Paper in the name of the hon. member for St. John's Centre. The question reads as follows: How ~any families living in Boyd Arm, lvnite Bay, were in receipt of long-term assistance,

b) short-term assistance? Tne answer to

a) is six and the answer to part

b) is seven. I understand from rey colleague, the han. Minister of Health, who represe:1ts the District of White Bay Nor.th, in which Boyd Arm is located, that there are approximately fifty families residing at Boyd Arm which makes it a very thriving community. I also have the answer, Mr. Speaker, to, partly, to question 326 asked by 1773 -

April 9th , 1970 'l'ape 398 JH ·- 4 the han. member for Burin. As I indjcated to the hen . memb~- th~ nrhPr ri 8y '-'e still ma!ntained an office in Burtn e}:actly the :;arr.e ,-,usber of days ar,d the same office hours D-S w~ have fo-r yc2rs. '!here were t1;o yo•..:ng ladies who are Social Welfare Counsellors in Eurin who de~ided that they w~uld prefer to live in Marystown, now, Hr. Speaker, MR. P. Ci\l\~lll\G: Prefer to live in Harysto-."U over ,.-here? HR. t;f.,\ RY : Over Burin. MR. c~.mii:iG: They rlUSt have been forced to go there. Y.R. NEARY: They were no t forced to go there, Mr.

Spe aker. ¥~ybe the night life in ~! a rysto~~ maybe a little more sociable ~han it is in Burin but I do not know why, the Government certainly did n~t force th em to ~~ve, Hr. Speaker, I do not know why the young ladies d.:cided to move to Ha rystown, As a m;lt:ter of fact as the han, member - HR. ROBERTS: Did we give them resettlement c,rants? tffi. NE..t,.RY: as the hon. rnember probably knows they have rented a trailer in Marystmm and M?. ROBERTS : Is the hon. me"ilier int ending to visit the Surin Peninsula? ~R! I was just going to thro~ out an invitation to the hon. nember, Kr.

Speaker, because I have been invited to go down to the Burin Peninsula in the forseeable future, and I Yould be glad. MR RIC~~~: ~~en the han. minister goes he could have a look at that headline. MR NEARY: And I would be 3lad, Mr. Speaker, to visit the young ladies in their trailor if he would c·'"re to col!le along. Maybe we could find out vhy they preferred to move fro~ Burin to Marystown. MR HlCKHAc-..: I vould p-robably be up for alienation of affection. MR. HZARY: Now, Mr. Speaker - MR. HIC¥~k~~: Politically, yes but not otherwise. MR.

N?.ARY: for the infor~ation of the ho~. member who ask=d the question, they did move on February 23rd. Part three of the question really should have been directed to cy colleague, the bon. Minister of Public 'n'orks, and to save the han. me~b~r the time of preparing the question again I redirected it to ~y colleague·. Part four should have been directed to the han. Hinister of Public ~arks, part five to the han. Minister of Public Works and part six to the h~n. Minister of Pu~lic Works. I am not trying to duck out of 111"/ res ponsi bility her e , Xr. Spzaker, but as my hen. i'rien:1 kno ~s all '1-"e do 1774

April 9th, 1970 Tape 393 JH - 5 MR. HEARY; ---- - in the Dep<:trtrr.ent of Social Ser·:ice'l and Reh<~bilit•:ltion is ~? let thf' VE:'art- ment of I'ublic Works know w-hat our requirer;~nts are, what cp.3ce \ol'e need for offices, and they go out and negotiate with the, for H,e space a:1.c! thc<y are the ones '>-'ho enter into the agrec!"lent so I pres,Jme that u:y fd.end, the hon. Minister of Publ:l.c Works, l!:lY colleague, will be passing along that information in clue course. MR. RIC~'~-~; Someone missed the supplementary question, Mr.

Speaker, or put it this vay, is the ans\ler to parts one and t-;;o, yes the two welfare officers have moved from Burin to a2-rystm.m, they are fe:!lale and they have tnovcd at their requ~st~ Is that the answer that I have to gat? MR. NEARY: Well that is not exactly the answer, Xr. Speaker. Burin ~as being served by t~o young ladies but because ~e have improved t3e service for the people in Budn they can now go to the Narysto\,-n office, they could not do this before as my hon. friend ~~ows. HR. HICK!·fA:.'I: Is that an imp!"ovement? MR. NF-~Y: Well, the office in Burin, ·Mr.

Speaker, is open three days a veek and the people in Burin and the surrounding area had to go to>the Burin office during these :hree days. Nov in addition to these three days they can also go to the Harystown office if they want to, you know if they wocld pre~er to do this ~nd nov the two young ladies themselves cecided, voluntarily, to move to Marysto~o.r:1 so the office in Burin now is being served by both the young ladies and the other social welfare workers in the ~~rystown office.

It does not necessarily mean that the two girls are assigned permanently to the B•.Jriu, · ' -: office, ~ith the same office hours and the same days. MR. EAPJ.E: Supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. !his has always been a mystery to me but how are cases on ~elfare supposed to be able to fir.d mo~ey to move to another office eleven miles away or so. Tnis happens in nc~erous cases. w~ere is the money to cone from~ Certainly they do not walk, \7hcre do they get tar.i fares and so on? MR. NEA .. "..Y: Mr.

Speaker, I do not think the hon. meoober clearly understood what I said, as a matter of fact as a former Minister of Welfare he should know the answer to that but, hovever, we are getting a little more sophisticate<! and probably I better explain it to him that the-people, the people in B,n:in and sur::o<.:nding areas can still go to the Burin office, it is 1775

April 9th, 1970 Tape 398 .m- 6 open, :.he m::uber of days ha\'C net been changed, the hours have not been chenged, th<lt offic.e is still open three days a veck, the hours are the same. so the people in Burin a;-,d surrounding areas do not have to go to Marysto;m unless they ~o~ould prefer to go to l-farystm.rn. ~~. EARLE: Then they pay for it themselves? 1776

HR. t>~- RY: I f thev ~o:aat to go of cou r se, you know \!e cannot pay their transportation, t.re do not ?r.::vide tra'"lsport~.~ion for clients to ~larysto>.:n, but a l o t of thctr, J have been tnl<:l ""'~ nYa.fnT" 1·..-. ,----- -- why. X.:.=ystO\..ol.~ . .. ·'· .L uv i.!UL kuow MR. HI CK!-Lt...'<: ~!3y I set the hon . rninister s t raight }!r . Speaker . I wi ll re f er him to today's issue of the Burin Post. HR. NEARY: It is not possible to do that VI> .. .~. ...... .. It is not possibl~? Well is the hon. minist~r aware • NR.

CROSBH': There is no way to straighten him out Has the hon. minister seen W:l, CROSBIE! There is no -way o~ straightening him our Mr. HR • HI CK!-L \N: Will you be quiet. Has the minister seen the April 1st. issue of the Burin Post. "Harysto1r.:~ residents angry over the location of the welfare office.'' Is he aware that also !la.rystown is now in a state of insurrection over his unusual &1d imaginative ~m. WELLS: We are used to insurrections jnvolving the han. member MR. HICK:·IAl": Change of policy MR. NEARY: Hr.

Speaker, · I have not seen the i ter.1 that the hon. n.ember - maybe he would do me the courtesy of sending it over to me, but MR. HICK.."'lh'l: I only got it myself, I have net ~ead it yet :HR. NE:\RY: I have been in constant touch with our office HR. RO:iERTS: We will zive the han. gentleman a dime to cover the cost HR. SPEAKER: Let us not have .a debate on the actions of the press 1-ffi.. ~EARY: Thank you !·Jr. Speaker, H01~. · ·W.-.J .KEOUGH (~finister of Labnur): Mr.

Speaker, just for the record I should call the attention of the hon. member to the fact that there are two quest:.ons on today's Ot'der Paper directed to me "~o:hich should have been directed to difEerent ministers. Question, 329 if for the attention of the ~linister of Finance. Question 330, is for the attention of the Minister of Justice, and to speed things along I will rcdi~ect.the · questions. F'JRTHER ANS\·iERS TO QUESTTO~>S: ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. t-;ELLS: !·1r. Sfleaker, before you call Orders of the Day, I would ask leave Sir. to move the adjournment of the !louse to discuss a matter of urgent 1'177

. ' ', public import;m.ce. The ro3tter Sir, bcins t:'"' fail•Jre of the Cov.:orn:r.;mt to disc;1ar.ge its responsibilities to th~ people of the G,.-eat !i\orthet"n ?enfnsula in carrying out its pt"omise to obtain the est2blish~ent of the r.ational park at Bonne Bay. /~1d attempting to cover up this failure and excuse it by an alleged white paper that is no~hing ::tore than a tissue of ::dsrepresentation. }llL SW\LWOOD (J.R.) : Point of Order, this matt.er is already before the House ~!r. Speaker, it cannot be here twice in the sa~1c session sil!lul taniously, at the sarr.e ti!:le, MR.

SPE/<XER: Let me hear why the han. member wishes to make the motion for the adjourr~ent of the House, and the hon. me~ber will be, but just state the reasons why the House debate this matter at this particular time and then let me please have copy which I have not seen yet. MR. WELLS: Thank you Hr. Speaker. It is based Xr.

Speaker the urgency for debating it at this time is based on the misrepresentation of the Government to this House and through it to the people of this Province, and their attempts to place the blame for their failure on the Governr..ent of Canada, their failure to carry out their duty to t~e people of the Great ~orthcrn Peninsula. :HR.

SPEAKER: Order please, I think that the hon. member, I feel reasonably sure in my own mind, that he realizes that a matter of this nature which is. which was debated yesterday, and which is due to come up agai:1. in the ~ery near future, now to ask for the adjournment of the House to debate this now, the urgency of de~ating this now I fail, I do not think, or at least I am of the opinion that I cannot see that he just wants to get this matter before the House again.

I am not making an accusation mind you, but I 'feel sure t~at tee I would not say that it is just subterfuge of getting this thing brought up again, but I do not see that h!s motion is in order to @OVe the adjournment of the cebate at this particular time. MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, if 1 may, I can understand Your Honour thinking that ~t this stage, b~cause I had not concluded the reasons. The primary reason is not ~hether or not ~e should have the park, or their failure, the primary reason :tr.

Speaker, and ~1hich I was about to get to is t:he Govemrr.eat 's deceit of the members of this House, and through it the deceit of the people of the people of this Province. Because of the Government bringing fo~·ard to this House what the it calls a ~hite paper, and it is nothing mq,re than an 1778

;.,./ election manifesto to cover that p~rticular of this Provl!lCe, and calling it a white pa?er. TI1at Mr. Speaker, is deceit and far tbis reason HR. SPE!;l:ER: I do net see th~ han. members argument 3t all at this tlme . I ca~see that, all 1 can sec is that he is now making a speech on a r..at ter "-'hich is before the !louse by resolution fron ano thcr hon. me;r.ber. }!R. \\'ELLS: A few more seconds and I will have made the argument: Nr. Spea;.;.er.

The reason for the urgency of debate at this time, I had to establish this first, but the reasons for ursency of debate at this tir.,e is that because of this obvious deceit this Rouse nor the people can have confidence in the Government. I HR. SPEAKEr-: The word deceit is ill-acivis~tl. too the hon. member knows that. Hr... WELLS: I am aware of that Your Honour, unless I am prepared to make a motion on the basis o E it ..-hich I am prepared to mal.e.

The reason for debating it at this time, ;J.nd the urgency of cebate at this tir.Je is that because of this the people of this Province, and t.he mer.:bers of thls House can no longer have confidence in anything the GovernT.ent does or says and that is an urgent ma~ter. HR.

SPEA..IZER: I ca-,not accept the ho:1. members motion, I do not see the necessity of any urgency of debate, anJ I do not see why ~•e should debate it a~y further at this pa<ticular time. }!R. ~fELLS: Does Your no~our wish a copy I will take a copy, but I rule it without even reading the ~st of jt that this is not a matter which is requiring urgency of debate DOW. ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. CROSBIE: I woulp like to make an amendment to the hon. gentleman's proposing motion one, and move that MR. SPEAKER: One moment please, motion one on today's Order Paper.

That is the hon. the President of the Council to ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Respecting A Pension Plan For 'Ohe Constabulary Force Of Newfoundland The Officers And Hen Of The St. John's Fire Department And The Officers ,\nd ~!en At The Prison Common Kno•m As Her Hajesty's Penitentiary." (No.34). On motion Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. YDtion: the hon. the :Unister of Fisheries to ask leave to introduce a Bill, 11 t\.'1 Act Respecting T~c !!.J.rketing 1779 -·

HR . CROSBI[::: Poi n t of \Jr:kr . tlotior: J, is a r.otioil 0:1 the !Jenne n~y rark an.G I S'Jbmit that thE: he~~ ~1~nlster '!t·=" }finest Agriculture and I·:esour~£:5 should not proceed '"i th his sp eech or I a:n r.::-ady to S!?C2.k on b~half cf this s:f.de. !-tvtiori. 3, is a r.;o~ion !fr. Speaker on Bonne Bay Pc.rk. HR. SPI:AK'::R: \o.'e are not goir:g to get mixed up in highly technical details as I said, the :r.~tion th:~~ v;as on the Orde-r Papt>r yesterday, and put th2ra by the hon. member for St. narbe South ~ould stand on the Orcor Paper and take the sai:le place as it did as of yesterday.

I thi::!k that so:nebody did say \dll it bear the sa"'e nt.-:nber? Nov I am net going to get so hi$;hly technical as vlhen sor.:cbody first calls r.umber 3 on the Order Pa"er. Does the hon. 1!\eT.ber ;.Jho is callirtg the nurr.bers today rr.ean number J, as it stands on the OrJer Paper, or any other order. 30N. E.~t.ROBERTS (~finister of 110./fnJ :_ Number 3, is on the printed Order Paper to ask leave to introduce on behalf of my collea;:;ue the Hinister of Fisheries to ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Respecting The }!arketing Of Salt Fish." (Bill No. 48). HR.

SP!:AKEJt: I will repeat though that if the han. members resolution from St. Barbe South still stands on the Order Paper <J.s if it had been printed regar-dless of what number it holds, ~;umber 3, and the others will be nLitnbered accordingly. I never knov lvhen orders are co ming up the y only come up as called, and on Hednesday, private members ll'.otions '!"ill n-eve precedence. MOTION: The ~inlster of Fisheries to ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Respecting The Marketing Of S.ilt Fish." (No. 48). ~m..

CROSBIE: I would like to mov~ that we now proceed to•the motion on Bonne Bay Park, seconded by t~e. han. me:o~ber for Hur.~ber E~st. XR. SPEAKER; The hon. meober would have to 1110ve this after we have dealt ~~th this one, the !:lotion n~ber 1, that the Bill be now read a first tine. The hon. ~ember has been given leave to read the Bill the first time. On motion Bill Re3d a first time, ordered read a second tioe on tomorrow: }ffi. CROSBIE: Mr.

Speaker, I move that we now consider the resolution on the Order Paper dealing with the Honne Bay Park, and the Government's lack of action 'in connection the:re with, the debate that was adjourned yesterday afternoon. Seconded by the han. the member for Humber [ast. 1?20

MR. sru . .<,:EP.: I am sorry but I have already said I thi~~ in the course of these few remarks I have made quite recently that the r;rd~r>:l c;f!· the: c~a'j arc called by the Leader of the House, a: the person acti.:1g in his behalf and a motion to call any other business at this particular time is contrary to the rules because, the Govern~ent side of the House, or the House Leader, he has the right to state or call the orders in which the House willi take this particular business of the day.

He is per!rritted, there is no rules tJhy he should not call a private n:etr.bers Bill on a pat't:i cular day other than Wednesday, but he does not have to, and he docs not have to tzke any of the orders on the paper in any particular order. It is his right, and the Government's right to call the order in which the items on the On!el.' Paper are to appear before the House, except on. Wednesdays, and even then he has the, if the orderes are not called, he still has the ri~ht to call them in their - if the person. does not insist, he has the right to call them in the order vhich he sees fit. ~~ Mr.

Speaker, on a Point of Ord~r, granted that that is the usual practice of the llouse, that the Leader of the Government has the right to call Ocders of the Da.y, or the order in ~;hich they will be called, yet the Government yesterday had no right except for p~rhaps a legal one, or the right of force oi their l!!ajority to adjourn the dc;b:J.te on pri·.•atc members day, and do us out of a three hour ::>eriod of cleb?.i:i.ng tim~ on -private :nembers business.

Yet that was 'done, and I therefore sub,a!.t to Your Honour t.'lat we shc,uld be permitted to rave the time lost yesterdzy to debate private membors resclutious today. MR. SPEA~ER: We are talking about the MR. 3XALLti'00l): The Gcvern:nent did net yesterday deny any tiree to the House for tht. debating of that private motion. The House did, the GovernT.et't did not. The House did and the :rules of .the House and Yo•.1r Honour did. N<Jt the Government .. HR. CROSBiE: Mr. Speaker, on a point of Order.

Ther Government yesterday broke its word that the members of the opposition as to ~hat the hours of sitting of this House were to be. The ~~vern~ent had agreed with the members on this side of the House that we ~ere to sit four nights a week including Wednesday night lolhic:h -..•as the day for private mepbers business, and yesterday 1781

deliberately and callously L"I.leC: to t<J.kc. the right st<'-?S and prevented us from t;;king the steps to have the debate conti;J.ut: last cvenjng. HR. SPEAKER: Let us clear this thing up for all times. This is needless ~'Tangling v:hich I referred to a little bit earlier in the day. Yesterday it..was private members day, a resolution ap?eared on the Order Paper, ' it was debated, it was debated until six o'clock, and at six o'clock acccrcing to the rules I do leave the Chair.

Today is not private members day, ve are, finally after nearly t,.,•o hours «e hav,e reac:ted 0;:-ders of the Day, and no:~ ~·e have the business of the House to de, I do not seoe ;.·hat it is that -.·e are quibbling about. \;re have to go on to'ith this business, but as far as putting yesterdays Bill, yesterday's resolution on this Order Paper, if the House Leader wants to call the resoluticn that is very >-•ell we will debate it, but he has not called the resolution therefore:, w·e must no"'' proceed with the Orders of the Day in the order i:1 I;ohich they are ~alled by the House Le2.der.

That is as simple as ABC as far as I am concerned. Let us continue with Orders of the Day. HR. ROBERT.3: Nc, Speaker, it is a flagrant mlsrep1.·escntation to s.:;y t:hat ~'e promised to keep the House in session yesterd~y. Sir, t~ice on succeeding Wednesdays Your Honour •:ill recall "'e had to !!lOVe motions limited of the day only, limited at the insista.. ... ce of the ho!l. gentlet:tan opposite. :1r. Speaker, I move on behald of my colleague HR.

CROSBIE: Point of Order llr, Speaker, that statement is not correct, that statement is a mis-statement of facts- The Government, the present the Leader of the House agreed with the Oppositi.on, when the Government isisted •;m oar meeting in tile nights as 1o1ell as in the afternoons, that one of the nights would be :.;ednesda.y nlght, private rr.embers nig:1t so that: w~ vould have six hours to debate our business a week, out 0f the twenty-seven. That is the fact. MR. SPEAKER: That ends this ;nat ter nov, Orders of the Day NR. RQJlERTS: Hr.

Speaker, I i!lOVe on behalf of r~y colleap,ue the Minister of Justice leave to .give him to introdl.!ce a Bill, "An Act Respecting The Organization. O;:>eration, F:.mc t:l.ons, Poo:.;ers, Duties • Rights And Privileges . ...... ,, ..... Of The Constabulary Force Of Nel~foundland." (:,o. 49): 6 fi· motion Bill read a first t i::-8, c rC:c-red read a second time on to CIO rro'""'": 1.782 .. /

l."L>... - L }lR. P.OiiERTS : ---- - - · ~umber ttc·:> being the Addr.,!'s in Reply. NR. SPEAKER: On n:otion the Address in ?.;;ply <Jdjourned. I move ~r. Spe ak er that th e House at its rising do rise until •rednesday next at three of t he clock. HR. SPEAKER: Is the House ready for the question? Those in favour "Aye", Contrary "Nay". In my opin;f,on the "Nays" h<>-••e it. HR. t.'ELLS: On division, ~!r. Speaker. HR. SPEAKER: On division. ~!R. S!1ALLIJOOD: Let us have a division, to see where W<?. stand. MR. SP~~'LR: Call in the members.

Will ail those in favour of the motion please rise; The hon. ~~e Leader of the Opposition; Hr. Collins; ~r. Hicb· ,an; Hr. wells; l·ir. Crosbie; Mr. Myrden: Mr. Burgess. Will all those against the motion please rise; The hon. the Pre~ier; th~ hon. the Hb.ister of Labour; The hen. !-!t·. Lewis; The hon. the Minister of Highways; Nr. Noel; Hr. Sm~llYood; the !'ton. the }!inister of Labrador Affairs; '1-tr. Hodder; !!r. Stickland; the hou. the 'Hinister cf }lin e s, Agriculture and Resources; the hon. the Ninistcr of Prov i ncial Affairs; the hon. the Minister of Public Welfare; Mr. Channing; !lr.

Barbour; the hon. the Ninister of Health; the hon. the Minister of Fisheries; the hon. !lr. Hill; } l r. Sa=ders; Mr. Mahoney; Hr. r.lornell. MR. SPEAKER: I declare the motion lest twenty to seven. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, if it is nov in order, unless the hon. gentlema~ has another motion, I would now move, that ~o: e move to Order number ~o. being the adjourn debate on.the Address in Reply. HR. SPE,IJ(ER: On motion to adjourn the debate on the Address in Reply •. l!R. CROSBIE: Hr.

Speaker, I move that we proceed now to another order namely; the order concerning the Resolution on the Bonne Bay Park. Seconded by the hon. v.ember for Hu~ber East. MR. SPEAKER: t~ell is this substantially the sarr:e rr.otion that vas debated the last titr.e'! MR. ITLLS To a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Standing Order No. 33, indicates that it is quite in:order to make this ~otion, at any time, when any question is before the Chair, that 'I;' C' ~!ovc tc another order. 1733 .-·

A?ril 8th. 1970 Tape 4CO rK- 2 ~:.Jii~~~~: That is \;hen a qu<>stion :!.s t:~;der dc!:oate, ti>ere is n::>·r.,otion b.:iu'-'" lile Chair at the pn::scnt ti'l'lc. HR. WELLS: Nr. Speaker, I understood t:h.:1t th·; a:ljourned 't>ebate has been called, before anybody stood up to speak on it, the motion 1.';:15 made, and this is the kind of rnotion, like a r.1.oticn to adjourn, in the sene cate£::>ry is in order at anytime. }!R.

SPEAKER: The adjourned the debate on the Address in Reply has been called, yes. l·lhen a question is ur.der cieba~e, no question is received unless to a~end it; to postp one it. to a day certain; for the previous question; for readfn~ the crders of the day; for preceeding to another order; to adjourn the debate; or for the adjournment of the House. The motjon is, that ~e proceed to s~ch order. But it is c~t of order for us to proceed with this one today because it is not on the Order Paper. If the Leader of the House called it, it •..rould be agreed.

We will put the motion; that the Rouse proceed to this Order, ~hich is the Resolution on the Order Paper in the na~e of the member for St. Barbe South. All those in favo~.r of the motion z.,y "aye", con~rary "nay". In r.y opinion the "nays" have :l.t. Division MR. SPEAKER: Call in the merabers: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition; '11r. Collins; t-:r. Hickman; Mr. Hells; Mr. Crosbie; Hr. Myrden; Hr. Burgess. Will all those against the 'JlOtinn please stand. The hon. the Premier; the hon. the Minister of Labour; the hon. Mr. Lewis; the hon. M!<1ister of Hi~h~vays; Hr. Noel; Mr.

Srr,allwood; the hen. the Hinister of Labrador Affairs; Mr. Hodder; Mr. Strickland; the hon. the ~linister of Y~nes, Agriculture and Resources; the hon. the ~linister of Provincial Affairs; the hon. the ~J.nister of Public !{elf.are; Hr. Barbour; the hen. the Hinister of Health; the hon. the Minister of Fisheries; the hon .' the Minister of Health; the hen. :-lr. Hill, the hon. Minister of Supply; Hr. Saunders; Hr. Hahoney; t1r. womell . . MR. SPEAKER: I declare the motion lost. MR.

WALTER HODDER: Before, I begin ~y fe~ ~e~arks on the Gracious Speech fro~ the Throne I would like to associate rr.yself ~ith t~e other members who have already spoken in ccm;;:ratula:.in?. th~ o:ovtr a:d s' cc1'der of the Address in Reply. Both gentler::en did a commendable jcb, e:xpe::i,:,r:c~d men and they have given their 1'7flA --·

April 9th. 1970 Tape 400 PK - 3 life in the sPrvice rf this P~c·~~~~. lu g.iow.ii:g terms with confidence in the Govcrnnent ar:d the Premier, :!t is cncourar.i.ng indeed. Hr. Speaker, it ~o~as John Haynard Canes who said, ""Words ought to be a little ;..oild for they are assualt on thinking". It has ne·,;er been my policy to criticize, for the sake of criticism. lfncn I find it ne.:essary to criticize I ah,ays to cm~e up with sorr.ething constructive. That does not see;n to ba. the policy on the other side of this !louse.

For se...-en ycurs, 1 have stood in this House and sat here listening to the Opposition, or the people on the other side, and see one continual barrage of criticism. It would appear, Mr. Speaker, that the Govcrn~ent can do nothing right. To hear the Speech from the Throne, it contains nothing. Questions are answered ~r rongly, the budget speech does not give any info=ation. Everjthittg that is on it appears to be wrong. It will surprise ee someday, if this Government did make a mistake and do soncthing right. 11r.

Speake:?:, I think it Yas the Premier, who coined this phrase, "Newfoun cla.,d ha:; to advance or perish". We have to keep up with the rest of Can4da. Th~ status qu~ is never maint:ained. A province, a country, a people or business, eithc~ -...akes progress or slips backwards. Too many people keep their eyes and thoughts turned backward, and worry about the ~istakes of the past or , duri~g the time of "I told you so". Members ought to Pnter this House "1...-f.th t.hf'ir eyes cast ahead, ::-nd not to be prophets of doom.

Th~y should not depend on precedent, for precedent or repetition is the centre of retogression. I do not remember in seven years hearing anything come from the other side of the House except criticisms. They will tell us that they are interested in getting jobs as we are. I think their constituents elect~d them for the sa~e purpose. But 50 far I do not hear any su~gestions of such thing. Witness the wishes of people to pine for the good old days before Confederation. It is not str~ge that people to acheive mental growth during the t~enties and the early thirl:ies.'should want to revert backwards?

I think ~o~e should look a.~ead 1785

think ~"" should look ahe<1d. ~~r. Spcak~r. rwbod? can de·,·~ that Newfoundland as a t·:hole has made progress. ~y Oi'll cistr i ct when I bc~<~n to :nakc t h ese few preparations for those fe,.; re:r,.·nks. I bcr.an to reflect on ,.·hat h01s hcen cone during the past seven vears. I am not t~ki~?, the credit for it, I am not boas tine ahout it.

Any han. r•cmber could h:'!.·.re done the same under this p,cvern~ent. t-7hen I was elected seven years. ago t·~<~ only had pm~er electricity in t~!o ola::es in the district. ~ow I a~ proud to say that ''e on]v have four small isolatetl a~eas that are not connected ~l ith t!1is not.'Cr. They arc l·!est Point. Grey River, LaPoile, and C,rand B~Jit. Seven years/Sa£ side of Ch.:mnel, Port <nr.< Basques, 1·-'C had no telephones. There ~ras a telet ,hone of a sort but nothir :f. like He have today. Now in practically ev~~y cor.1rc.unity, ecce:pt Cape P..<'y ''c have a modern system of telephones.

Cape P-ay "~>•ill have telephones ir:st.?.lled this year. It is true that l'io111e of the Sl'laller isolated .u-cas have radio-telenhones. But that is the on1y S¥stem thnt t~e can pr~vide for these sections of our Province. 'F.oads ~lr. Sneaker, ~cv~n yl'!'lrs a~o !.."e had no ro<>.<lo::, CX(:ent those in the to-..'!ls of Channel, Port au~ Basnucs. \·!e cid have a tr<lil, I hav~ referred to it [,efore in this hen. lloos!', leadin~ fr'lm ?or!: au B:1snues to RO$C Elanc~e.

These roads ~ncied at the entrance of the t~ms ~vhich t!1ey ••ere sunnosed to be connecte to. ,-,;:zcJe • Durinr. i. ~1e "ast seven ve:trs we have "-:!'!:2:1 four ::-oads dm,T, 1tltc Rose Illanche. four sections of this viL!.a~c. · Thev have t'. : r ter.de~ the too ad into 11-'lrbour !.r.~Cou. This ::oad is r.ot, as far as -.;e would like to h:1.ve it. hut ~ue to the congestion of houses we had to ston near the entrance, or in the centre of the tot..-n. Road 'o Diamord Cove, ~as hccn p~rtly com~l~tcd, ,,e ne~d another half a mile. A cause-~ay has hecn built which link~ Burnt I:o;land with the mainland. ?-!r.

Spe'!e.:::er; ,..·hen that ~-as hl'ilt to~o year:; a:.-;c some people in t~e educational field and the admi~istrative field or the superviosry field in Bnr~~ Islands referred to this causar:-,;y as a politicians folly. '!r. S!'"'aker, I t.."culd like for the same people to "isit Bunt Islands and see the chan::;e thilt has taken lllace there. On the island which has a population of 300 peo:>le there 1,•Rs no industry, there was no ~ay they could have one. And the or.lv ha rbo11r in Burnt Islands at that time was on the island. ~-7ith the construction of the cnu~et-my, a r,ood h;trbour has been aade.

And the vounp, nan there h•' the n;1"'e of Eric Kin~ , last sprinP. 1785

started and huilt a smnll fish plant P-~out ~o x 30, he had a cutrin~ table a;;.d vt}u:a uec~ssities ior packinf! cod ... 1-.'hcn I "-'<~S t~~re during the Easter recess , he has r.o'l.' extE"ndcd i:: cioublc its size and has a further extension 70x41J under cons•ruction ~t the present ti~e. From the fifth of ~!arch until the 31st of ~farch he packed 500 barrels of herrinn. I sa~ the invoice for 23 barrels, it Yas approximately SlCOO. It r.·orked out to anproxinately $61) a barrel. I counted in that little plant eiRhty-two heads, eighty-two peoolc working A year aro you would not find one at this tir.e.

The roads coming into Burr.t Islands extended as I said hefore, at the entrance of the town, and ~.uring the ;'o:;st seven years the ,....._.. 'l.ds have been built rir,ht around Burnt !slonds. Mar~nree road hns been upf.:..-aded. And the Canon Martin Hi?,hway extendin~ from Port ~u Rasques to Burnt Islands has been rebuilt at a cost of S3.5 million. But "r. Sneaker, it t~as $3.5 million well spent. It t.ras too bad at that time that it was not t>aved. Over that road C.J.H~rdy trucked fish from Trinity Bay, Bonavista Bay, l'hite Bay, down to the North !!est Coast , ri~ht into Rose Blanche.

At the present time on that road I doubt if there is a ·busier road in Canada. Fish !l'!eal and oil being trucked into Port au Basyues from the herrinp. reduction pl~nt at Isle aux: }!arts a!!d fish being t:..-uc~.:d hy C .J .iiardy to and from Port .aux B .~.,~·;es ·. Progress has not all bee1~ m.<de in roads ~-fr. Speaker. These··last seven years, I think it is about ten modern schools have been built. Schools of a . ~quality "rhich t-~ere not there before and t-.'ill comnare v.rith any part of Canada. Teachers residences have been provide~.

The Govern~ent have encourage·1 the fishermen hy ~rantin~ loans, subsidies and hounties, to enable them to purchase better ~ . oats and engines. Fish plants have heen carrying on a successful business and the p,eneral economy of the are:t is 20od. !!e have practically no ~relfare. Channel,tort aux ~asoaes, has carried out an extensive navin~ pro~rarnme I dou~t if you will find a hundred feet of ro~d in Port 3ux Basques that is not paved. P~rt aux Basaues is one of the mo~t pror.ressive and cleanest towns in Canada.

A new ho~c has been provided there for the ma~istr~tc, one house ha~ been built for doctors another in prenaration. Extensions haYe been made to the hospital in Burr,eo and Port aux Basques. This should alleviate the spc.ce problem ~hich has existed for the past few years. A modern stadiL"ll has bee~, built i.n Channel, !'art <1.ux B:1«1ues, A ne1~ narl::. onencd on 1787 · '

I •a . -..-- the Isle aux rlorts ro::!d. Five n::!:; post offic<:.• h;J.V~ bee:1 erected. systc~ instnlled in Rur?eo ?nd t~~ roads rebuil~. ~e are hopin~ tftat in the not too distant_ future !lurgeo and P.a~ea ;.1ill he cor.nected by road. I do not expect Ramea ·,.,ill he. Hr. Speaker, but Burv,e0, ilnd ~~ill serve Ramea as TOell. This is a road of sort stretchinr, from BadRer dow~ to Granite Lake, whi~h is approximately forty miles from Burgee. During a recent visit to Burgee the hon. ~fr.

Jamieson made a promise that he would build a road to Burgeo and at the present time rather than .,.ait ten or t~Jelve years for a road connection l<ith Rohinsons which most of the people would like he has pror·lised that he would connect up with this power co=iss:icn- road stretchinli dovn to Granite Lake. People of the vhele district tJOuld like to sec this road to Robinsons. ~?e feel, that by fnr pushing/the road to Robinsens we will be denyins the ceople of Burgee the privile~e of an outlet for many years to come. We have a ferry service ooeratin~ between Grey River, Ra~ca and Burgeo.

Now you may ask why a ferry in that area. That part of our co:-:.:.:t these places are exnosed to the open A£lantic. Peo!>le in that area do not have boats larp,e enough in rough weather to take people to the hospital. If for no other reason ~-fr. Speaker, this ferry is doing a 8ood job. At Ramea the Atlantic Development Roard has built a vat.er line and ~1ater source for the fish plant the-re. It is ~pped that we will soon be able to install a water system for the to~~.

With the·amount of traffic on the road from ~ose Elanche to Port aux Basques as I mention~d earlier, it is necessary t·hat this road should be paved. ~r. S~eaker, I doubt if the material orop,-rcss in ~ewfoundland b~tween 1949 and 1970 has ever been paralleled in any nart of the world. Our economy has improved propor~ionatelv. ~·!ag~ rates are doubled and trebled. And although h,h.h living costs have ~one U!' ,o have ~-a~es. Labour also has g~ined many fri;~e benefits in the last decarle. ~ore insurances, sick pay, pension pian 'extra ~or~~e~'~ compensation benefits and ~ore naid holidays.

I think that NetJfoundland's future cro·~erity will depend to a lar~e extent on the ocean which surrounJs us . Our fishery will have to be promoted and exnanded. . La;r,ge a.n<'! better enui.cned heat_... even factory tvr•e ships should !::e considered"' With the _g_ro,~dt:~g •·0rid ponulation, the need for food, and ~lewfoundland bein~ situated near t'he ;o;reatest fishing ~round~ of the world t::. should have 'dth proper planninp: '.1 very bri:"~!l!. future. 1788 ..... _ .... ,. ...... _. ... .

April 9 1010 . 'l':o.;•t> i.Ol \f"; . S~~ ?~ C!' • ~:-; .. ·!z::-:"!:!1.:.~:! : -: :::: :;~. !._:: V~ :~.., v .·.;t -JC~uULl...C'S tu t:--Xpana its iishc :-ie s . t:ith t hi.'> ir. u.inr!/ l ~!:~ . c!li.; r.ove rn:::e:.t <1 r e1' un on~ of t he finest i'l Fhery p:-o~:-oe-•:-l CS t h<tt .l:lJI or.c co11ld conce ive . The i mole~o ntation of t hi.s oro~ro'll:nc da?cncled uoo:t t he; Fedcr<~l l':o\·crn!'lt:m t. t·:e did no t have the resouTces t o do it ourselves. tt iR t oo hnd ~ hat it t ook seven years f o ~ t he fece :-al p,over:~~P.:1t to r c c os-,..i.z~ c:"le nc!van!:a~<>s of ti.i!i cro;t:-o':lnc.

I s Ul>oose it is u:lders>:anca!'>lc 1:h;-n 1:e !:ron<.' that there <~re so lN!ny pro V:.nces , so fe'.ol nto\·inces ccnn~ cted wit h t!'>t' sea . ! !owcvc~ . "r . 5pe;)ker, thP.re hn!l been fin :~ llv n bre:tkthr ou~h nnd the fede ral 80Ve rnwent is no~ : willinl!; to set up a snlt coc:lfish marketin r. boArd . Ther e i.s a lA~ P.e m:trl:ct for this produ c t and ~o"i t~ federal assistanc e ?rice r.•:n:-:~ntct's t his industr >• s'lo uld c;orn ~ in:.o its o':n. A01 ir:,.,rovcc! sal: codfish pro:=:-,.,!T.'lc ~!lou~c! tal:e so!:le p:-ess ure off ou r fres!l fis h cor!<ets. ~c .

Speaker, if t he nrowotcrs of DR£~ a:-c looki~~ for ~ays of pro~~t in g our econ otny t'!ley should l o.-k to •t:c fisher:. · .:s a source of our scconc!ary indus try. Our herrinst s houlr! he deve~o pe d beyond t he ! il'!eti ':l"; stnce of sco t r h nackin >t into Stno!d.n~. b()t t:lin p., and c<~:lnin t: . !'ot o:~ !y hc :-rin$!.. ~ uc "'11 s pe cies of fish should be 1789

z1pr il 9' 19 70 Tape no . 402 Page Ehould be processed to suit t.!•.e taste of each individual. The south coast of our rrovince is ~deaily sicuat.eci for t.he producLion o£ a iaLg~ quHl•LiLy and variety of fish. Host of the fish there is caught during the Yinter season and it is easy to produce a good quality, Yhen the qtt'llity can be easily preserved. I suppose, Mr. Speaker, there is no industry in the \Jorld which has so ~any difficulties with which to contend as the fishermen have. They have those ~<'hich nature put in their way and 'l<hich they are willing to accept and have to put up with.

It is shameful what they have to endure. God knows that their endurance has been stretched to the limit. They suffer not only loss in production, but loss of fishing gear. 1~ey are helpless against the great foreign fishing fleets ~hich approach our shores. Fisher~cn no1o1 have another problem since the building of these herring factor:t:s, they have a~other problem with ~hich tc contend. Seiners have ~oved in here fro-a; New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and British Colunlbi a. !hese scir.ers seem to hold our fishermen in contempt. TI1ey have no regard for the fishermen's property or the fisher~r.en thet:~Selves.

They destroy their nets and refuse to pay for them~ Stories are told about seiners destroying fishing gear and their disregard !or fish~rmen's lives. I have been told t.ha~ some of these seiners will go full speed to1o1ards the small fishing boats and only change their course, vhen t:-,ey are close-up to the boat, pretending that they are about to run them down. Hr. Speaker, if something should go "Wrong 'With the steering g~ar in a critical JWr.~ent, I fear for the results. Tll.is type of action must be stoped. The sea holds enou gh cangers for our fishermen without crazy, irresponsible people adding tc them.

In one small settlement in my district "here before the dra.;gers arrived, the catch vas ·' 25,000 · to 30,000 pounds a day. After the fleet arrived, they had to tie up their boats and stay ashore. This is a deplorable situation and I shall again bring these matters to the "ttention of the Federal Government. I notice a feY ~nutes ago in the Evening Telegram that legislation is now before the Eocse in Ottawa to try to remedy, · to enforce some law and make a linit of tYelve miles to protect our fishermen. I know every ce~ber in this House will 17~0

be plea s ed to hf.lar this n'-'I•."Z. I ~::a e s pec ially pleased. I "'"ould like to congratulate ~· !r. J~ru.j eson, vu:- p~esent ~!n-i.s t~r in 0::: ta\;a and O!.ll:- cr; .. "n Y.inister of Ffsheries here, for the part they played. I know they pla f ed a great

part in ~erring t his legislation befor2 the Parlia ment in Ottawa. The results, }~r. Speal:er, of this legislatio~ cannot be est:lmated. 'l'he los.$ in production in my district during the time tl1at the forei gn draggers are there is tremendous. It is a case, Mr. Speaker, of com?letr.ly di s couraging cur fisher~en or enforcin£ the fishing; limits.

Our hE:Orring fishery can ne·;er last in the present lr'.anner in ..,hich it is bein it, fished. 1be seiners put our their seines and I understand that it is the la•~ that the seines be taken up if•three days, so as to give a chance to the herrinp. that is in the seine to escape and a chance of living. Apparently if they are closed up for a longer period, they die. ~~- Speaker, if you go along in the ccves a~ong the

section of my district anrl see the dead herring lyin~ thc~e on the cove, it would be a sight to see. Some of these bigger seiners - they are bringing in bigger and bigger, who cannot get into the .sw.all coves and op!)rate, they bo~ili the herring to fcrce them ~ut, killing thousands of to.-:s. As I said "!Jefcre the herring fishery can never last vith the present r.~nner in which the seine:s are behaving. Hr. Speaker, both the :Federal and Provincial Governments are concerned ~~th inflation. They wage earner is living in a precarious situation with the rising cost of living, his dollar buys less and less.

It may be said that wages are increasing to meet the cost of living. Some big contracts do have a built in clause - cost rise clause; thus it is argued that if the cost of living goes up five per cent and the person gets a five per cent increase, he is just as well of. This is not so, because if a person gets an increase in wages, he has to pay a higher income tax. It ~4tters not that wages and price rise to~e:her at the same rate - the tax on his inco r:1e will clir.~b at a much faster rate and !n ten years vill have risen t~ice as much.

Tids makes it obvious to us that derr.anding and r,etting higher wages is not the answe~ to inflation. If ~e agree that the cost of living is increasing fc~er than our inco~e, there is sooething wrong with our system. Collective bargaining is and has been the greatest force shaping 17£11

April 9, 1970 'fa pe no. 402 Page 3 ou-r development and society. Is this the best oossible ~ y srPm? Does it adequately safe guard the public i~tcrest? Is it equally suited to both private and .pu:,lic sectors of our economy? It would appear that soQething is ~rene. Perhaps many of these involved in collective ba~gaining have lost sight of the original purpose and have pursued colle:ti\•e bargaining as an end in itself to the detriment of both society and the individual.

Losing sight of the basic purpose of collective bargaininr. has resulted in a s~em "l:hich generates industrial '"ar(are and causes el:lployer and employee to focus their attention on their m<n divergent interests to the exclusion of the comuDn interest. Both parties should be able to reach an agreement with a minimum of infringe~~nt on the rights of the individual employee and a minimum of conflict and costly disruptioP.s, ~~th their con:. equenc<!s. economic loss to society.

We are all aware of the serious i~ple~en~ations of the current inflationary psychology which perrr~ates our ~hole economic existence at this ti~:~e and if not checked t.rill clarken our future. ~lr. Speaker. pollution is becoming a greater ~nster than i~flation. MR. CROSBIE: Mr.~peaker, I would like to point ou~ the fact that there is no quorum in the House. HR. SPEAKER: !here is no quorum- I leave the Chair until 8:00 p.m. 17!;2