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August 30, 2012

40th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2012-Aug-30 (PDF)

L072 - Thu 30 Aug 2012 / Jeu 30 aoû 2012

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 30 August 2012 Jeudi 30 août 2012

ORDERS OF THE DAY

FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO PUBLIC SERVICE

ONTARIO PUBLIC SERVICE

ONTARIO PUBLIC SERVICE

TEACHERS’ CONTRACTS

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

TEACHERS’ CONTRACTS

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

ANIMAL PROTECTION

ANIMAL PROTECTION

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

ONTARIO PLACE

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

AGGREGATE EXTRACTION

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS

LOCAL BUSINESSES IN STONEY CREEK

SCHOOL FOOD AND BEVERAGE POLICY

BURLINGTON RIBFEST

ST. JOHN THE EVANGELIST

CATHOLIC SCHOOL

GEORGE TACKABERRY

POVERTY

PICKERING DRAGON BOAT CLUB

LEADING GIRLS, BUILDING COMMUNITIES AWARDS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PERFORMANCE PAY AND BONUSES

IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR ACT

(MANAGEMENT AND EXCLUDED

EMPLOYEES), 2012 /

LOI DE 2012 SUR LES PRIMES

DE RENDEMENT ET AUTRES PRIMES

DANS LE SECTEUR PUBLIC

(CADRES ET EMPLOYÉS EXCLUS)

PETITIONS

ONTARIO NORTHLAND TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION

RADIATION SAFETY

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

RADIATION SAFETY

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT

(ELECTION OF CHAIR

OF YORK REGION), 2012 /

LOI DE 2012 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS

(ÉLECTION DU PRÉSIDENT

DE LA RÉGION DE YORK)

ONTARIO LOTTERY AND GAMING CORP.

EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT

(BLOCKER PADS), 2012 /

LOI DE 2012 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L’ÉDUCATION (BLOQUEURS)

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT

(ELECTION OF CHAIR

OF YORK REGION), 2012 /

LOI DE 2012 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS

(ÉLECTION DU PRÉSIDENT

DE LA RÉGION DE YORK)

ONTARIO LOTTERY AND GAMING CORP.

EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT

(BLOCKER PADS), 2012 /

LOI DE 2012 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L’ÉDUCATION (BLOQUEURS)

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PUTTING STUDENTS FIRST ACT, 2012 /

LOI DE 2012 DONNANT

LA PRIORITÉ AUX ÉLÈVES

The House met at 0900.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Let us pray.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN

Resuming the debate adjourned on August 29, 2012, on the amendment to the motion by Ms. Broten relating to the government’s commitment to the full-day kindergarten program.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Ottawa–Orléans—no, Nepean–Carleton; sorry.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: They’ve been asking in Ottawa–Orléans for me to move over there, Speaker, so they can get a more effective representative. Thank you very much. It is my pleasure.

I was thinking on my way to the House today how the Liberals must enjoy me this week, because they’ve given me the opportunity to stand up and speak in this House at length each and every day this week, and I can say from the bottom of my heart: I missed you too this summer, and thanks very much for bringing me back a week early.

We did some reading yesterday from our friend Don Drummond, the hand-picked economic adviser.

Mr. Jeff Leal: How was the game?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I didn’t get to go. Thanks very much for keeping me here last night; I appreciated that. Being the education critic and a person with a private member’s bill this week, I haven’t had a lot of sleep. But I have had a lot of time to think about this motion before us, this motion that is non-binding and only designed to trick people into thinking that they actually, actually care.

We talked at length yesterday about Don Drummond, the chief economic adviser of the McGuinty Liberals, who was the architect and the brainchild behind the greedy $3-billion HST tax grab before the last election. He, of course, reported in February this year to say—and I must remind everyone, because there are some new members in the assembly today who weren’t here yesterday—and this is the critical point, on page 213:

“Given the current fiscal climate, the commission is concerned that the timing is not appropriate for a new program with a cost of this magnitude. The costs of FDK were incorporated into the March 2011 budget and the 2011 Ontario economic outlook and fiscal review in November. But as we have discussed elsewhere, not enough offsetting restraint was secured in other spending to ensure that these fiscal plans would achieve the overall … objective.”

Speaker, that isn’t the only Liberal who had concerns with the government’s plan. You’ll probably recall the Scarborough Observer on September 22, 2007. Now, this is an interesting quote. It’s in the article. It is written by Tianpei Ma. I’m going to quote directly from the article:

“The same debate is happening over early childhood education. While most candidates support the proposed suggestion to change kindergarten classes from a half day to a full day, Balkissoon suggests any party agreeing with the initiative should make sure they have the revenue first.”

So a Liberal MPP, in September 2007, two provincial elections ago, stood and told the voters of Ontario that only if the province of Ontario could afford to pay for full-day kindergarten—that is only when they could proceed.

I now have two Ontario Liberals on record: the chief economic adviser to Dalton McGuinty and Dwight Duncan—

Interjection: The Liberal economist.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: That will be the Liberal economist Don Drummond, the architect of the $3-billion HST tax grab, and now Bas Balkissoon, who is a member of the Legislative Assembly for the Liberal caucus. He too agreed with Dalton McGuinty’s hand-picked economic adviser who said we must be cautious. That, sir, is why we have put forward an amendment to this legislation.

They have to be truthful with the taxpayers of Ontario. Can we afford it or can we not? We went through this yesterday at great length. We went through at great length the challenges we are facing in Ontario given the economic mismanagement of the decade of darkness.

For the past nine years, this Liberal government has spent us into oblivion. They have taxed the families of this province so that there is not a lot of affordability in their own communities.

Now, how does that impact full-day learning in Ontario? Quite simply, it talks about the sustainability of the entire public education system if there is no money in the kitty. And I can tell you something, Speaker. Given the fact that they have taken Ontario from first to worst in economic growth, given the fact that they have tripled Ontario’s debt in a very short period of time, and given the fact that their high energy prices have driven manufacturing jobs out of our province, it is becoming more difficult to pay for core education, not to mention full-day learning, as I cite Mr. Balkissoon.

I say once again, “While most candidates support the proposed suggestion to change kindergarten classes from a half day to a full day, Balkissoon suggests any party agreeing with the initiative should make sure they have the revenue first.”

Well, Speaker, we know that this government is on its way to a $30-billion deficit. There is no money. Don’t take my word for it. Take their own hand-picked economic adviser’s word for it, Don Drummond. He says so in his commission, the commission appointed by this government. He said if they don’t get spending under control and they don’t find some offsets of a $1.2-billion price tag, we’re going to find ourselves in a $30-billion deficit and a $411-billion debt.

I ask my colleagues, is that the responsible way to spend the next generation’s money? Is it? I ask the assembly, is that the right thing to do in order to suffer the next generation and burden them with a debt and deficit that they did not create? Don Drummond doesn’t think so. Don Drummond—and there’s actually a larger report here, Speaker, that I quoted from extensively, as you’ll see, the Commission on the Reform of Ontario’s Public Services. Don Drummond goes to great length. That’s why I made an amendment to the frivolous motion put forward by the government to expand on what our concerns are in the official opposition.

I’m just going to recap, because the problem with the debate that starts on one day and goes on to the next, through the speech of one member, is sometimes it gets lost in translation, particularly for the government and especially those members who may not have been here before 2007.

So we amended their motion yesterday, and what we’re debating now—I want them to be very clear on this—is to ensure that the new cost of this program does not further increase Ontario’s structural deficit and lead to the tripling of Ontario’s debt, so the House requires the government to ask the AG to report on the program’s new costs and the ministry’s corresponding savings to pay for them to ensure the Liberal government’s nine years of overspending does not jeopardize the things we care about, like front-line health care and classroom education.

Let’s go back to this: “does not further increase Ontario’s structural deficit.” This is a government that inherited the good days. This economy, this province was booming. People were coming here from all around the world. They decided they wanted to set up here in Ontario, move here, raise a family here, get a job here, retire here. They were spending money here. That stopped. That stopped when they took power, and they’re on course to creating and they have created—they’re going to triple the debt, but at the same time they’re creating a structural deficit because they are spending more money every year than they take in.

Don Drummond said two things: “One, you’re either going to have to raise taxes, which I’m not allowed to recommend, or two, you’re going to have to cut all these programs.” If you don’t have the courage, if you don’t have the ability, if you don’t have the strength of character, if you don’t have the leadership to make these decisions, then you’re going to have to find offsets elsewhere, and that’s what we’re asking for. Where are the offsets?

I think I speak in the spirit of my Liberal colleague Bas Balkissoon in suggesting that if you’re going to go through with the initiative, you should have the revenue first. Who here, Speaker, goes shopping when they have a dime in their pocket? That’s what this government does. I mean, this is the shiny bauble trinket and excitable government, over next door. The reality is that no one is arguing with the education system here; we’re arguing about ability to pay and the affordability and ensuring that the next generation doesn’t have to pay for the mistakes of this government. We’ve been asking for that forever. I would humbly submit that in this Toronto Observer

article for Scarborough, my colleague Bas Balkissoon suggests the same thing.

There hasn’t been an opportunity today, or yesterday in the last hour, for me to indicate any of my own personal views or beliefs on this subject, because it has been so clear that there is such debate going on in the Liberal Party over this matter that we simply have to expose where the government is.

They don’t know, so we have to continue to bring it up, that their own hand-picked economic adviser, the person that they rely on to ensure that the trains run on time with this government, so that there’s enough money for them to pay their buddies over at Courtyard, at eHealth, and ensure that all the big managers get their big bonuses in a time of restraint—and so that they can ensure that when Deb Matthews wants to go take her Ornge helicopter with Chris Mazza, there’s fuel in the tank even though there isn’t when it’s needed for patients.

But, Speaker, the reality is that they’ve got Don Drummond and Bas Balkissoon telling this assembly and telling the people of Ontario, “Hold on. We have to make sure we have the revenue first.”

Mr. Bob Delaney: Point of order.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Point of order, the member for Mississauga.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Thank you, Speaker. The member, in her zeal to make her point, has consistently violated a standing practice of the House, which is not to name members but to refer to members by their riding name.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): The member for Mississauga–Streetsville does have a point, and I would advise the member for Nepean–Carleton—

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Thank you, Speaker. I appreciate that. I’m simply—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Just a second—to refer to other members of the House by their riding name, not by their proper name.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Okay, Speaker. Thank you. I have 30 seconds left. I just want to just say this: I have an

article that I was quoting from that actually mentions Mr. Balkissoon, because it says, “Balkissoon suggests any party agreeing with the initiative should make sure they have the revenue first.”

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Thank you, but again I’ll caution the member that you have to talk about the riding name, not the member’s name, please.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: The newspaper doesn’t identify this individual that way.

I’d just like to say thank you. I have had a great opportunity here over the past hour to point out the flaws in the government’s fiscal plan.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Further debate? I recognize the member for Timmins–James Bay.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say at the outset that I’m obviously not going to speak against the motion, and I’m obviously going to be voting, and our caucus will be voting, with this motion in the end, because we’ve believed for a long time that full-time JK and K are important. In fact, where I come from in Timmins, we’ve been doing it long before the government ever thought about it. We’ve been doing this for the better part of 20 years. My kids went to full-time kindergarten, and I think our youngest daughter went to full-time JK and she’s 29 years old now with her own daughter now, Ellisa, my granddaughter. Do you want to see pictures?

Interjection.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I’ll show you pictures. Don’t get me going. I’ve got to tell a funny story about pictures if you’d allow me, Mr. Speaker.

The other day, my second granddaughter, who is 18 months old, was with her dad watching television. They were watching the news of the rally outside, of the teachers sort of gathering together and protesting this government’s actions in regard to the bill they have before the House. Some woman on the television—you’ve got to remember that my granddaughter Victoria speaks, at this point, one-word sentences. It’s all in French: en haut, en bas, papa, maman—you know, that kind of stuff. She doesn’t speak in anything more than one-word sentences.

This woman gets on TV and she says, “Dalton McGuinty’s a bad man,” at which point my granddaughter grabs a Batman figurine and says, “Dalton McGuinty Batman.” I thought it was hilarious. Anyway, the Premier said he was thankful that somebody thought he was a superhero, but that’s a whole other story. Anyway, let me get to the motion.

We, as New Democrats, have always said that we believe it’s an important part of social policy and also an important thing for kids that we have full-time kindergarten and JK. So I’m not going to spend all of my time talking about the actual policy because, in fact, we voted on this some time ago. This House pronounced itself on this particular issue some time ago. The government made the announcement that is now being implemented, and it begs the question why we’re having this debate. Why is it important, all of a sudden, that we have this debate?

They’ve called the Legislature back because, supposedly, there’s a crisis in education somewhere. Nobody seems to figure out, except the Liberals, that there is a crisis.

Why are we having this particular debate? Well, I would think we’re having this particular debate because the government is more preoccupied about by-elections than they are about really doing what needs to be done in this Legislature. They’ve manufactured this crisis in education in order to say, “Oh my God, if we don’t take action, there’s going to be disruption in the classroom. It’s going to be terrible. Kids won’t go to school. The lights will go out in the schoolrooms. Look at those teachers, what they’re doing.”

They’re just trying to create a crisis, and everybody in Ontario is sort of standing back and saying, “Where the heck’s the crisis?”

What have we heard so far? We’ve heard that the teachers started—their opening position in bargaining—by saying, “We’ll take a two-year wage freeze.” My God, I’ve been negotiating for years on the union and on the employer side, and I’ve got to tell you, from the employer side, that if my employees come to me and say, “I’m prepared to take a two-year wage freeze,” that’s a pretty big start toward getting a settlement when it comes to negotiation.

I say to myself, “Oh, the government wasn’t happy with that,” so they decided, “Well, how can we win a by-election if we don’t find some way to get voters all excited and mad about something where we could be seen as doing something for them?” So they decided to contrive this crisis. Then the government says, “It’s really important. We’ve got to get the House back, because we have to deal with this crisis. Oh, my God, if we don’t deal with this crisis, the world’s going to come to an end.” So they take the extraordinary step of calling the House back early by two weeks, starting last Monday.

The government also says, “Not only do we have a crisis in education, but the bad old opposition is holding up this important legislation that we have on the order paper to pass through the House.” The government says, “We’re not going to have a debate on bills that are on the order paper.”

There are a number of bills that probably could be finished, done and wrapped up in this House if the government was just to call them. For example, the government’s got Bill 2, which is the seniors’ tax credit. Wow, if the government would have called that this morning, a bill that they say, “Oh Lord, it’s so important. We’ve got to get bills through the House and the opposition is holding us up. Oh my God, that terrible opposition. This minority Parliament can’t work,” they’re saying to the voters in the by-elections.

Well, if they’re thinking that minority Parliament doesn’t work, why didn’t they just call that bill? They probably would have got it. I know we’re done speaking to it. I can’t speak for the Conservative caucus, but I think they’re finished speaking to it. The only ones who are filibustering Bill 2 at this point is the government themselves by introducing this motion to talk about something that was decided over two years ago.

Mr. Speaker, what’s going on here? This is simple politics. This is a government that is so preoccupied with two by-elections that they’re prepared to call the House back, create a crisis in education, and make it look as if there’s some sort of a crisis and paralysis in the Legislature. God, they’re filibustering themselves. Mr. Speaker, I object. They’re trying to take away the role of the opposition by the government being oppositional to themselves.

What is going on here? The world is turning upside down. You have the opposition saying there are some important issues that need to be dealt with. Andrea Horwath gets up in the House and says, “Listen, we have a job crisis in this province.” There are people in communities across Ontario, from Sault Ste. Marie to, yes, Waterloo, Vaughan, Toronto and a whole bunch of other cities that are looking for work. And what are they doing?

They’re not dealing with, “Let’s look at what we can do to help people when it comes to the economy.” We’re sitting here talking about a motion that will have no effect on public policy because the vote was done two years ago and the funding has been put out the door to already start up full-time JK and senior kindergarten.

Why aren’t we talking about the issues that are going on in Essex and London and Hamilton and Toronto, where people across this province are saying there is a jobs crisis? You have people that are afraid that they’re going to lose their jobs. You have people that are feeling as if they’re falling further and further behind because of the burden that this government has imposed on them with things like the HST and other measures like high hydro rates, where people are feeling the squeeze and people are saying, “I want some solutions brought to these problems.”

No, the government doesn’t in a by-election say, “We’re going to roll up our sleeves and, as the government, we’re going to show the way and provide leadership in order to make this province prosperous again and to give people the feeling that they can actually make ends meet at the end of the day and a little bit more security when it comes to having a job.” Oh, no: “We’re going to negotiate something that’s earth-shattering, something that we decided two years ago.”

What’s this place all about, Mr. Speaker? Like I said, imagine that: a government filibustering itself. I think it proves what we have been saying from this side of the House for the last couple of weeks. This government is more preoccupied in their own self-interest of being able to win by-elections—contrive to create by-elections—so that they can hopefully try to get a majority in the House. And God protect us if they get a majority in the House.

We’ve had two terms of majority Liberal government. We know what that gave us. Let’s remind ourselves what we got. We got the HST; we got ourselves higher interest rates. We now have the highest deficit numbers that we’ve ever had in the history of the province of Ontario; no plan really to deal with it in a progressive way. The only response the government has to balancing the budget is, “Let’s run over the working people. Let’s just hack away at things,” and do essentially what right-wing governments have been doing across this province.

My learned friend wants to say something.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): The member for Mississauga–Streetsville.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Thank you very much, Speaker. I’d actually like to accept some advice from the member for Timmins–James Bay and ask for unanimous consent to revert to third reading of Bill 2.

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): I heard a no, and I return to the member for Timmins–James Bay.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: For the record, Mr. Speaker, I said yes. I’m perfectly willing to deal with those bills that are important to the people of Ontario.

Now, here’s the beauty of the Legislature. This is why Parliament can work. This is why minority Parliaments can work. So now here I am, a lowly little MPP from Timmins–James Bay, standing up in the Legislature making the point, and the government is now starting to say, “Oh, God. He’s beating us up and he’s right. People are seeing through our veneer of silliness of trying to make it look as if there’s a crisis, and in fact there isn’t one. And he’s right: There are important things that we should do.”

So now we have the government getting up and saying unanimous consent to revert to passing Bill 2, which is the senior home tax credit, which I’m in favour of and I would vote for and I would agree to unanimous consent. But I think it proves the point that I’ve been making: This government is so intent on—how would I say it nicely? They’re so intent on feather-bedding their own chances in the next by-elections that they’re prepared to resort to anything, except doing what’s right, in order to win those particular elections.

I come back to the point. I look at people across this province; I look at people in my own constituency. What are they concerned about? They’re concerned about being able to make ends meet at the end of the day. People open their hydro bills every month and they say, “Oh, my God. Look, Gilles; look how much I’m paying. I’m paying almost double what I used to before Mr. McGuinty came to power.” I’m sure other members are getting that, in Essex, in Hamilton and other places on a regular basis, where they’re saying, “This is crazy.”

We had, in the city of Timmins, Xstrata metals, which operated a refinery smelter in Timmins for a number of years—a state-of-the-art facility, one that was making money. Why did they close down? I was at the meetings along with the Premier, along with the mayor of the city of Timmins, Mr. Lewenza from the CAW, and others. They flatly told the Premier, square, head-on, “We’re leaving Ontario because we can’t afford the electricity rates in this province.” So they closed down a facility that had almost 900 people working there and moved production to Quebec. Why?

Because the Quebec government understands that cheap electricity prices—because they have the ability of producing such electricity because of hydroelectric—is an economic development tool, and if you want to develop your economy, you have to do things that are important, leading to a lower bottom line, for those companies to establish and stay in your own jurisdiction. This government says no; the only way they’re going to do that is by following a right-wing agenda of austerity and lowering taxes.

I’ve got to tell you: There’s another way. New Democrats, social democrats, have been saying for a long time that there’s a better way. There’s a balanced approach to how you balance the budget. Yes, you must keep an eye on the bottom line. Yes, you must be frugal in your expenses. Yes, you must make sure that you’re extremely efficient in how you spend taxpayer money on things like education, on health care, on plowing your highways. But there are other things you can do. You can look at the revenue side—and that doesn’t mean raising taxes; that means building a stronger economy that generates more revenue because there’s more activity in the economy.

The reality is that if you look at it—and this is interesting. If people want to do a little bit of reading—and I’m sure all of us in this House have, but for the people listening or reading this debate, go and read what some of the economists are saying about the austerity measures that are now taking place across the world as a result of a response by right-wing governments like Mr. McGuinty’s and Mr. Harper’s. It leads to slower economic growth. It leads to a slowdown in the economy.

One of the really interesting articles I read recently—and I forget what magazine it was online. Some economist wrote an article; I think he was Portuguese. He made a very good point. He said that if everybody was to go into the mode of saving, you would actually kill the economy because that would mean to say that nobody is spending and people are putting their money away. You have to have people spending money in an economy. So when governments are doing things that lead to austerity, they’re in fact slowing the economy down.

There is another way. You have to have a balanced approach. Yes, you have to be careful on the expense side; nobody argues. Social democrats will argue—and they’ve done this in Europe; they’ve done this in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Nova Scotia and other places—that you have to manage your expenses well. But you also have to look at other things. You have to take a look at, “What can I do to help my economy grow?” What can you do to help the auto sector in the Essex-Windsor area remain strong and competitive so that we can keep those jobs from going to Mexico and the United States?

What can you do in London to stop companies like Caterpillar from doing what they did, where they essentially said, “My way or the highway,” and the government stood back and said, “That’s fine. We’re a right-to-work state. If you want to basically strip everything that workers have worked for for their entire lives, it’s okay by us”? The government should have stood up and said, “That’s not the Ontario we believe in. We believe that we have to help you with your costs, Mr. and Mrs.

Caterpillar, but at the end of the day, you’re not going to, all of a sudden, try to take your savings on the back of the community and on the backs of the workers that rely on the jobs in that company.”

You have to have a balanced approach. You have to grow your economy. You do that how? By having good economic development policies, in that you do things such as cheaper electricity prices, so that companies like Xstrata don’t move away from places like Timmins, and cheaper electricity prices, so Cliffs Natural Resources really will one day build a refinery in Nickel Belt. I fear that’s not going to happen, and I hope that’s not the case.

I really fear that we’ll be in a position where it will never happen, because Cliffs Resources, I’m told, is now in discussions with the government to get a ministerial permit to exempt them from processing ore out of the Ring of Fire in Canada. They want to ship it to China. Why? Because I think there isn’t an agreement between the government and Cliffs to lower energy prices to the degree they need to make that particular facility work in Nickel Belt. I think that’s unfortunate.

I know that if we were government, we would be rolling up our sleeves and sitting down, not only with Cliffs Resources, but I’d be sitting down with KWG, I’d be sitting down with Noront, I’d be sitting down with First Nations and saying, all right, how do we build this resource and position it in such a way that, yes, mining takes place, that First Nations feel they’re real partners and get some economic activity and some profit out of this, that the companies are able to make money, that workers are able to get great wages, that we’re able to protect the environment and do what’s right and, more important, add value to the chromite that’s coming out of that mining area?

So far, the only thing the government is really excited about is the mining jobs. Well, that’s only about 30% of what that ore can give Ontario. If you build a refinery, you have value-added jobs. The government says they’re interested in doing that. I doubt it’s going to happen. But you say to yourself, what do you do with chromite? You eventually make stainless steel out of it. Why not talk to the people in Sault Ste.

Marie and Hamilton, where the steel mills now exist, and ask whether there is a possibility of figuring out how we can position those companies to get into the stainless steel business to increase production of stainless steel in Canada for export. Those are the kinds of things you do to grow an economy so you don’t have a deficit. And then small businesses in those communities, like Essex and Timmins and London and Sudbury, can go out and can become more prosperous by offering services to those particular companies that are doing that value-added. It means the restaurants are fuller.

It means the clothing stores sell more clothes. It means there’s more activity. Everybody benefits, and that’s how the government grows the revenue.

But this government’s approach is, “Oh, my God. The only way we can deal with this is by austerity.” Now we’ve got the Premier saying, “Maybe we should take sick time away from police officers and firefighters.” Oh, my God. Remember the last election? They were like the defenders of the police and the firefighters. Now they’re saying they want to take away their sick days because they’re unaffordable. Is that a response for how you balance the budget? “The only way I can balance the budget is to go to a worker and say I want to take more away.” But it’s okay to give managers raises; you can give them big bonuses.

I’m proud to say that today Andrea Horwath and our caucus will be introducing legislation to deal with that issue. It’s patently unfair when workers who are working hard to do the work they’re asked to do and being paid whatever it is they’re getting and are saying, “We’re prepared to take a two-year wage freeze,” look at managers getting 3%, 5%, 6% and 10% increases because of bonuses. This government’s got a very funny approach, a very, very funny approach to what they think is fair.

I go back to my main point. My main point is, why are we debating a motion that deals with something that was passed in this House two years ago and is now public policy in the province, to which the Liberals and New Democrats already agreed? We’re on the same page when it comes to wanting to have full-day kindergarten and JK. Why aren’t we debating legislation that deals with fairer electricity prices? Why are we not dealing with ideas such as have been brought forward by my leader, Andrea Horwath, that say we should at least on the tax side give tax cuts only to those companies that are creating jobs and send a very clear message.

If you are serious about investing in Ontario and you want to be a partner in Ontario to grow our economy, we’re there with you, social democrats say, Andrea Horwath and others. We’re with you. We are going to work hand in hand with you to grow that economy. No. The only thing the government can say is, “We’re essentially going to try to create a crisis in education and show there’s some sort of paralysis in the House, when there isn’t one, so we can game it and maybe be a little more successful politically in the by-elections in Vaughan and Waterloo.”

I hope that doesn’t work, because I think that will add to people’s cynicism when it comes to politics. If you look at the participation rates of people who don’t vote in elections nowadays, there’s more people that don’t vote than do vote. In the last provincial election—I may be wrong, and maybe I’ll be corrected on this—in my riding there was a 49% participation rate. That means that more than half of the people didn’t vote. I think there are a couple of reasons that is.

One is that they look at actions such as what’s going on in the Legislature today and say, “Rather than the government working hard to resolve the problems I’m concerned about, the government’s more concerned about their own political problem and are creating a kerfuffle to try to maybe game the election to their favour.” They say, “Well, the heck with it. I’m checking out. I don’t want nothing to do with this.” I say to those voters that you’re wrong. You should punish those who do that. You should be voting in greater numbers and saying, “I’ll show you for doing that.

I’m going to vote against you and I’m going to vote for somebody who has a positive message,” whoever that might be. I hope it’s us. I think as New Democrats we have a very positive message. But that’s what voters should be doing. Voters shouldn’t be checking out; they should be checking in.

Look at what’s going on in Quebec with Mr. Charest and what happened with the les manifestants that we saw in Quebec over the last number of months in regard to what’s going on with tuition in Quebec. Now, agree or disagree with the policy Mr. Charest put forward—I think lower tuition rates tend to make more sense, but that’s a whole other argument—but there is a participation in the Quebec election on the part of young people that we have never seen before. They have all of a sudden equated political—civil disobedience or civil action on the streets is one thing, but you make the real change at the ballot box.

So you’re seeing a lot of young people getting involved in these elections and doing what they can to assist candidates who believe in the issues that they believe in. It’s predicted that this particular general election in Quebec coming up—is it this week or next week?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Next week.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Next week. There’s going to be a larger participation of youth in that election, and I think that’s a breath of fresh air.

I say to those people who are taking the time to pay attention to this debate that you don’t check out of politics when you’re mad at the politicians; you check in, and you let your feelings be known by way of your choice on the ballot. That’s how you do it.

What a wonderful tool we have in our democracy. Always remember what’s going on in Afghanistan, what’s going on in Egypt, what’s going on in Iraq, what’s going on in Syria and other places. People in those countries, in order to have a say, literally have guns in their hands. That’s an awful thing, when society turns on itself, when citizens pick up the gun against their government and the government picks up guns against the people. It’s a terrible thing. Here in Canada, we’re so lucky, along with Europe and the United States and other countries. We essentially have those fights at the ballot box.

I say to those people who are disenfranchised and those people who are upset about what’s going on in politics, don’t check out; check in. Do what’s going on in the Middle East. Have your own sort of uprising, but make it at the ballot box. That’s where you’ve got to make the changes.

Again, I’m looking at my colleague here. Did he want to speak to this?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I wouldn’t mind helping you.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Oh, okay. All right. You were looking at me very intently.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: No, no. I was listening intently.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Oh, very good. See? Notice how as social democrats we work together. It’s like sharing. It’s a very wonderful concept that people across Ontario should take hold of. You get far more from people banding together and sharing ideas and sharing the load and sharing the work. You get a much better result in the end, I think.

I’ve got a few minutes, and I’m going to let my colleague take—I asked my colleague just before I got up. Madame Gélinas would also like to share in this, so we keep that in mind.

I want to end on this note, because my colleague would like—I want to be clear. I can share my time with my colleague over here, right?

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): You can share your time.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Very good. I just want to be clear that we don’t lose the floor.

I want to end on this point: There are very serious issues facing this province: the economy, jobs and affordability. That’s what people are concerned about. When the government contrives to make a crisis by saying Parliament doesn’t work—“It’s slower than molasses,” says the government House leader—and the government filibusters their own bills by bringing in a motion like they did this morning, I think it’s pretty disingenuous. I think it proves what Andrea Horwath has been saying from the beginning, that this government is more worried about the results of a by-election than they are about doing what’s right for the people of Ontario.

Mr. Speaker, with that, I know my good friend from Trinity–Spadina would like to say a few words.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much, and I recognize the member for Trinity–Spadina.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I thank my friend from Timmins–James Bay for allowing me to complement his remarks and allowing me to speak against—not speaking against the motion, because we supported it when it came forward. But to reannounce an announcement that has already been approved is silly, and it’s part of what I call puerile politics. You look bad. You do look bad when you do this, because what it means is you have nothing to say about the current bill and you need another distraction away from this, and actually why you need this motion is to try to embarrass the Tories. I understand that.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Are they embarrassing the Tories?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: They’re trying; they’re trying real hard. That’s why I call it puerile politics, because we know where the Conservatives overall stand on this issue—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: With Dalton McGuinty.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: With Dalton McGuinty, indeed. But to do this is, in my mind, a very silly distraction away from other issues.

We pointed out a couple of years back that if you’re going to do full-time JK and full-time SK, you’re going to have to protect the child care centres with support, with money, because if you take the four- and five-year-olds out of those child care centres, the very children who provide—not the children who pay, but the families who pay for the four- and five-year-olds. When you take that money out of child care centres, they’re no longer viable. We pointed that out from the very beginning, and I recall not one Liberal agreeing with what I was saying—not one Liberal; not one.

I usually lift my finger to say, “Is there not one among you; not one?” And it has clearly been shown that many of the child care centres across Ontario are in trouble. Indeed, 450 child care centres have closed as a result of this initiative, an initiative which I supported, which New Democrats supported.

You cannot introduce such initiatives without government funding. And then to do it on the backs of everyone else, and in particular, in this instance, the teachers, whom you are attacking—because what you’re saying to teachers is this: “If you don’t take these cutbacks in all the areas that have been mentioned that have not been negotiated with most of the federations, we won’t be able to afford the full-time JK and SK.” I didn’t think that was part of the deal that they signed on to three years back. I thought that you, the government, had the money to do this, or that at least you would be able to find it.

But you don’t find it by attacking other middle-class workers; it’s just not the way to do it.

I remember arguing in committee that you needed to put a cap on those JK and SK classrooms, because your average is 27 students. I said, “If that’s your average, they’re going to go up to 30, 31, 32 or 33, with one education worker and one teacher in that classroom. When that education worker is taken out of the classroom, because so many children have so many needs at any one time, that teacher is alone with those four- and five-year-olds.” We argued that that’s just not a good thing, it’s not a good policy, but did I hear but one Liberal stand up and say, “Marchese is on the right track”? No; not one Liberal.

Most of the time there is not one Liberal who will support you, except Kim Craitor, who walked with the teachers a couple of days back—God bless.

We did raise the concerns in committee. We said, “Full-time JK and full-time SK is a wonderful program.” It’s good for families. It’s good for mothers in particular, the mothers who have the biggest burden of raising the children. They know it and we know it, and that’s why we thought the initiative was good. But you cannot do it without adequate funding, and we knew that boards across Ontario—Catholic and public—would suffer as a result, because if you don’t put in adequate funding, those boards are going to have to rob Peter to pay Paul, and that’s what they did.

The sad thing is that the majority of people simply don’t see these things as they are happening. We’re all so happy about the new initiative. The Liberals: Good God, I don’t know how many times they went out saying how great this is, without once mentioning the potential problems that needed to be addressed.

We argued for transitional funding, and the government finally, after many years, put $65 million, but that was to continue the child care programming dollars that the federal government stopped funding. It was not to provide for the support of this new initiative that you introduced.

Interjection.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Member from York, we raised this issue with you and others, and not one Liberal listened to what we had to say. And now, lo and behold, you have soldier MPP Liberal backbenchers standing up saying how much they love this program, how much they love these teachers.

Ms. Tracy MacCharles: He didn’t say that. He’s not against full-day kindergarten.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Who?

Interjection.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: And now they’re standing up talking about how great this program is and, “Good God, if we don’t do this to the teachers, if we don’t whack them good, as we’re trying to whack them good, if we don’t distance ourselves from these unions and if we don’t take what we can from them, we won’t be able to fund JK and SK.” So all of a sudden, where you had this education Premier—

Interjection.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Hold on; whoa, Bob. Where you have this education Premier, once so loved, who could walk on water with teachers—I say that biblically. As I said last night, he can no longer walk on water. He has caused a split—

Interjections.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Hold on. I’ve got to shout over his voice.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): I have to ask the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure to refrain from heckling the member for Trinity–Spadina, and I return to the member for Trinity–Spadina.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Thank you, Speaker, for your intervention, because I have to shout over his voice. It’s not helpful.

You had an education Premier so much loved by the teachers. They were one. They were tight. Liberal teachers loved him. And all of a sudden that love is just gone. It’s no longer mutual. Now we whack teachers as we claim we love them. Every MPP who stands up every day talks about how much they love those teachers and how great our educational system is. But now the time has come to beat up on those people, and the language the Liberals use is, “We’ve got to beat up on these unions because they just don’t get it. They just don’t get it.”

We’ve been arguing, on this side—from my private talks with many federation folks, they were quite happy to negotiate in a friendly-like way, literally giving all that you wanted in a collaborative way, and you said no. It’s beautiful: You said no. Why is it that you said no? Quite frankly, I just never quite understood it, except for the by-election. And I said, it’s got to be. What else could it be? This government is so uneasy about being a minority government, because they’ve got to work with Tories now; good God. You understand, they’ve got to work with Tories. They hate that. They do.

They hate working with us, but they hate working with the Tories even more. So they’re like yo-yos. They’ve got to go back and forth, and they are completely confused, politically confused. They don’t know quite what to do. They need to win a by-election. The one in Vaughan is relatively safe, but the one in Kitchener–Waterloo is not safe.

So what did they do? They remembered John Snobelen. Do you remember him, Speaker? You were here with me.

Ms. Tracy MacCharles: David Cooke, too.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: No, no. John is our man. John is our man on the horse, the giddy-up guy. He’s our man on the horse, who had a great idea about creating a crisis. So the Minister of Education said finally, “I need a new bright idea. What do I do? I call up John Snobelen.” John said, “Yeah, it worked for me.” She said, “Okay, no problemo. It’s got to work for me, too.”

So they’re creating a crisis with teachers. Those Liberals, so much loved by teachers, are no longer loved because the love ain’t mutual no more. Those good relations are gone. I’m okay with that, I’ve got to tell you. I’m okay with that. If you want to beat up on teachers, it’s not a political problem of mine, but it has become a political burden for you—a big one. Because what you’re doing is attacking those middle-class teachers. You’re saying to them, “Your salaries have got to be cut back, because look at the poor private sector on the other side. They’re taking a beating too. So if they’re taking a beating, you’ve got to take a beating.”

But a couple of months ago, you guys were saying to the corporations, “We’re quite happy to give you the public piñata that you could just club away every day,” and just pour all that money into their pockets. And they loved it, because they’re socking it away—$500 billion of dead money. Mr. Carney, our big guy, the governor of the Bank of Canada—he’s saying that it’s dead money.

You guys, you Tories and you Liberals, have been giving them piles of money out of corporate tax cuts. What do they do? They sock it away. And you’ve been giving it away—you. Public piñatas, political public piñatas that you just give away to those rich folks, the bankers. Minister of Citizenship, the bankers: You know them well. Instead of sharing the wealth, we give it to the wealthy. How smart is that? Please, how smart is that for you Liberals as you attack the unions these days? I heard the minister of post-secondary education used his attacks on the unions, on the middle-class workers.

Yours is an incredible assault on middle-class workers, and it’s a terrible assault when they were willing to negotiate with you and willing to do it voluntarily. But no, you had to outdo the Tories, who say, “No, a voluntary wage freeze is not good enough. We need to make sure that we mandate it so that we can tell the public, ‘We are tough on them.’” Boy, did you get close to the Tories on this one. Boy, are you outdoing the Tories. Boy, are you so happy to be Tories in a hurry. But it ain’t working for you; it ain’t working for you. That’s the silly thing about what you guys have done.

Now, if you guys survive this one, I say, God bless. Then maybe your strategy of beating up on the middle class is working. I say, God bless. But I’m not convinced, I really am not; in which case you will have lost everything from the middle-class teachers who supported you and loved you to the potential Tory supporters you were wooing with your strategy of making it appear that those teachers, those well-fed teachers, just didn’t want to come to the table and didn’t want to negotiate.

For six months you sat on your hands. For six months you and your minister sat on your hands, quite happy to distance them away from you as a way of claiming, “We tried.” She wasn’t at the table. She had fancy, fancy corporate lawyers there—fancy corporate lawyers at the table, the type Tories would love. Those people weren’t there to negotiate a fair deal; they weren’t there in a nice, collaborative approach to find a solution. No siree, they were there to distance the teachers away; that’s what that was all about.

It’s lovely to see the Premier’s quotes in 2004, right after the Harris regime, and in 2009, about how “We’ve got to work together with the teachers. This is a collaborative approach.” He said, “Oh, yeah, collective bargaining. That’s the way to go. We’ve got to do that.” Not but two years later, he changed his mind. What happened? Dalton, the man so loved by teachers, you give it all away. How could you do that? How could a rational human being do that?

Interjection.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Maybe not so rational.

The point is that in my view you have made a profound mistake in your approach to this issue, and I think you’re going to be hurt by it. I believe a lot of the backbenchers believe it as well, except they have very little control of this matter because this thing is run by the Premier’s office—not even the Minister of Education, because the Minister of Education is there to listen to the directions given by the Premier and his political staff. That’s the way the system works around here.

But I know some of you are very, very nervous, because you’ve received calls from individual teachers and locals, federation locals, and I know you’ve done your best to hold them back. I know you’ve done your best to tell them how much you love them.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Not from the public. Only from the teachers; not from the public. Our constituency offices are quiet. We haven’t heard from the public.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: And that’s okay; that’s fine. Clearly, Minister Chiarelli, the Minister of Transportation, is saying that he’s abandoned the teachers, meaning his strategy is working. He says, “We’ve had calls from teachers, but not the others,” which means that he expected the teachers, as he whacks them, to feel bad and feel the pain. And they are calling, but the regular public that they’re wooing—I mean, Conservative voters are saying, “Right on, Bob Chiarelli, Minister of Transportation. You’re doing good.”

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: We’re not hearing from the NDP voters either.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I wouldn’t expect you to. I wouldn’t think that they would be calling you, saying, “Bob Chiarelli, Minister of Transportation, great job. We love it,” as you’re going after them.

Speaker, I’m happy to have contributed a few comments on this debate. We now have my colleague France Gélinas from Nickel Belt who wants to contribute to this debate, and I’m happy to pass it off.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Thank you very much. I’m pleased to recognize the member for Nickel Belt.

M me France Gélinas: Merci, monsieur le Président.

Je ne peux pas vous dire comment insultée que je suis, ainsi qu’un demi-million de Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes qui vivent ici, quand je lis, dans un document intitulé le Feuilleton et avis, que—écoutez bien ça, monsieur le Président. Vous allez tomber en bas de votre chaise. Je sais qu’elle est belle, votre chaise-là, mais attachez-vous parce que vous allez tomber en bas de votre chaise. Savez-vous ce que ça dit? Ça dit ici que le gouvernement—

Interjection.

M me France Gélinas: Page 13. Ça le dit en anglais; je vais vous le lire en anglais :

“That, in the opinion of this House, full-day kindergarten is the single most important investment the government can make in the social and economic future of our children and, on this basis, the House supports the government’s commitment to ensure that 250,000 Ontario four- and five-year olds will be enrolled”—puis c’est là que ça devient vraiment insultant—“in North America’s first full-day kindergarten program by September 2014.”

Le gouvernement n’est pas là pour les aider, les Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes. On est là pour mettre en place un nouveau programme, le meilleur programme en Amérique du Nord, un nouveau programme qui n’existe nulle part. On est le premier en Ontario.

Qu’est-ce que ça veut dire pour les Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes, monsieur le Président, s’ils sont en train de dire que c’est un nouveau programme qui n’a jamais existé en Amérique du Nord? On ne parle plus de l’Ontario ou du Canada; on parle de l’Amérique du Nord.

Ça veut dire que tous les efforts que font les Franco-Ontariennes et Franco-Ontariens à tous les matins—savez-vous ce que ça veut dire d’être Franco-Ontarien? Ça veut dire qu’à tous les matins, quand je me lève, je décide de continuer le combat, parce qu’à tous les matins quand je me lève, la chose la plus facile à faire serait de parler l’anglais. La chose la plus facile à faire serait de me laisser assimiler, parce que partout où je vais, je suis bombardée par des messages anglais.

Mais non. Moi, puis un demi-million d’autres personnes, à tous les matins, on se lève, on prend notre garde, et on se dit, « Moi, je suis fier d’être Franco-Ontarien ». Puis moi, je suis fière de ce que les Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes ont développé dans notre province. Il n’y a rien qui nous a été donné. Pensez-vous que les programmes de maternelle, de jardin à temps plein, dans les écoles francophones, ça nous est venu du ciel? Pensez-vous que ça nous est venu du gouvernement?

Regardez ce qu’ils nous disent, monsieur le Président. Il nous disent que c’est le premier programme en Amérique du Nord. Je ne peux pas vous dire comment ça blesse. Ça blesse tellement. C’est se faire dire par son gouvernement que les francophones n’existent pas en Ontario, que ce qui se passe dans notre vie, les succès qu’on a eus—parce qu’il ne faut pas se leurrer : la maternelle à temps plein, le jardin à temps plein pour les francophones de l’Ontario, ça était un succès, monsieur le Président. Ça était un tel succès que dans tous les médias francophones, on en a parlé. Cela a été étudié. Cela était présenté dans des conférences comme un programme novateur, un programme à succès.

Les Franco-Ontariens ont fait leur marque avec ces programmes-là. Il y a 12 ans de ça. Et depuis ce temps-là, tu as plein de petits Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes qui auraient peut-être été tentés d’aller dans le système anglais. C’est tellement plus facile. Il y a plus d’écoles. Tu n’es pas obligé de prendre un autobus pendant des heures pour te rendre dans une école francophone qui est à des milles et des kilomètres de chez vous. Tu peux traverser la rue et te rendre dans le système anglais. Ça rendrait la vie tellement facile.

M. Gilles Bisson: Je suis là avec toi.

M me France Gélinas: Gilles est là avec moi.

M. Rosario Marchese: Moi aussi. Nous autres—

M me France Gélinas: Puis Rosario aussi, peut-être Taras aussi. On est là, puis on a l’intention d’y rester.

Quand je vous dis pour et par, la méthode qu’ils avaient en place, c’était vraiment de travailler avec les partenaires locaux. Il y a beaucoup d’écoles—je peux parler des écoles de mon compté où c’était le Carrefour francophone qui offrait la garderie avant et après. Il y avait des systèmes de garderie dans toutes les écoles francophones et plusieurs écoles d’immersion, monsieur le Président. Les écoles d’immersion avaient vu ça, eux-autres aussi, puis elles en étaient fières.

M e Caza, quand il a défendu la cause Montfort, nous a démontré à tout le monde que si on veut que les Franco-Ontariennes et Franco-Ontariens continuent à survivre dans notre province, il faut leur donner—il appelait ça des îlots. Il disait qu’être francophone, c’est comme tu es dans un grand lac, puis il faut toujours que tu nages. Sinon, bien, tu noies. Moi, à tous les matins, je me décide de nager comme Franco-Ontarienne. Sinon, je coule.

Puis là, tu vois les anglophones qui, eux, se promènent en bateau. Ils passent et puis ils font des vagues. Seul les anglophones se promènent en bateau. Mais de temps en temps, tu as un îlot. Tu as un îlot où tu peux reprendre ton souffle, où tu peux te reposer un petit peu.

Interjection.

M me France Gélinas: Il y en a un peu partout. Il y en a un à Toronto, le Centre francophone de Toronto. On en a un peu partout.

Donc, ces îlots-là nous permettent comme francophones d’arrêter de nager pour un couple de minutes puis de nous reposer. C’est un peu comme ça que M e Caza nous a expliqué ça.

Mais qu’est-ce que ça permet, ces petits îlots-là? Ça permet à la communauté francophone de reprendre son souffle ensemble. Ça nous permet de nous reposer, de se connaître l’un l’autre, de s’entraider l’un l’autre et de continuer.

Là, le gouvernement libéral de M. McGuinty nous arrive puis nous dit, « C’est un beau programme-là que vous avez développé pour et par les Franco-Ontariens. On ne le regarde pas. On s’en fou. Ça n’existe pas. Nous autres, on arrive avec nos gros sabots puis on va vous dire comment ça va se faire, la maternelle à temps plein. »

Les Franco-Ontariens ont fait quelque chose que je n’avais jamais vu. Chacune des agences franco-ontariennes de la province, de la plus petite à la plus grosse—on parle de la FAFO, des conseils scolaires; on parle même des évêques et des caisses populaires. S’il y avait un francophone là-dedans, ils ont signé une lettre. La même lettre a été signée par vraiment les agences qui représentaient les 500 000 Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes qui existent ici pour dire au gouvernement McGuinty, « Écoutez. On existe déjà. Le programme de maternelle à temps plein, il existe déjà du côté francophone. Puis, on ne le fait pas comme ça, nous. On le fait autrement. »

Ils n’ont pas écouté, monsieur le Président. Ils n’ont pas écouté un seul mot de ce que les 500 000 Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes avaient à dire. Ils sont rentrés là avec leurs gros sabots, puis ils ont dit, « La maternelle à temps plein, ça va se faire comme ça », point à la ligne.

Les francophones ont continué de crier le plus fort qu’ils pouvaient pour leur dire, « On a des droits. On sait comment faire les choses. Regardez. On a de l’expérience. Ça fait 10 ans »—dans le temps, ça faisait 10 ans—« qu’on l’offre, la maternelle à temps plein. Apprenez de nos meilleures pratiques. On est prêt à les partager avec vous. » Pantoute.

Ils ne voulaient rien savoir; ils ne nous écoutaient pas. Et on continuait avec l’idée qu’ils avaient en tête : que la maternelle à temps plein, ça devait se faire comme ça. Ils avaient un cadre de référence. Ou bien tu rentrais dans la boîte ou bien tu restais chez vous.

Au bout d’un an et demi, quand tous les beaux partenariats qui avaient été établis avaient été rompus, quand tous les beaux programmes qui avaient été développés pour et par les francophones étaient devenus histoire du passé, ils ont dit, « Ah, bien. Peut-être qu’il y avait de bonnes idées dans ces partenariats-là. En fait, les Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes, on devrait peut-être les écouter. » Mais c’était trop tard, monsieur le Président. Il était trop tard. Nous à Sudbury, le Carrefour francophone avait perdu 90 % de ses contrats. Ils ont failli faire banqueroute.

Ça, comme je vous ai dit plutôt, c’était un îlot pour les francophones de Sudbury. C’était un îlot que le gouvernement McGuinty a failli tuer par sa politique pour la maternelle à temps plein.

« Le premier programme en Amérique du Nord. » Quand j’entends des choses comme ça, monsieur le Président, je n’ai pas le goût de rire—pantoute. Ce n’est pas drôle de se faire dire par son gouvernement qu’on n’existe pas, de se faire dire par le gouvernement libéral que ce qui se passe dans le milieu francophone, c’est correct de l’ignorer; on ne demande même pas de regarder ce qu’on fait. C’est correct de l’ignorer, de ne pas en parler, de ne pas apprendre des autres. C’est correct de faire comme si on n’existait pas.

C’est décourageant, ça, monsieur le Président, puis ils savent tout ça maintenant, hein? Parce que des réunions avec la ministre déléguée aux Affaires francophones, on en a eu une, puis une autre, puis une troisième, puis une millième. Même chose avec la ministre de l’Éducation. Même chose avec les ministres qui s’occupent—ils savent tout ça. Ils savent l’histoire. Ils savent les meilleures pratiques. Ils savent comment blessant c’était de se faire dire qu’on n’existe pas.

Mais on est rendu le 30 août 2012, puis on a encore un document écrit par le gouvernement libéral de M. McGuinty qui dit « le premier programme en Amérique du Nord. »

Qu’est-ce ça me dit, monsieur le Président? Ça me dit qu’ils n’ont rien compris. Ça me dit que l’on ne compte pas. Puis ça me dit que ça ne dérange pas, toutes les belles choses qu’on a faites. Tout ce qui compte, c’est les gains politiques. Tout ce qui compte, à la fin de la journée, monsieur le Président, c’est de s’assurer qu’ils vont gagner dans Kitchener–Waterloo. C’est tout ce qui compte.

On n’a pas été demandé de revenir ici pour parler de la maternelle. Apparemment, il y avait une crise dans le milieu de l’éducation. Il fallait absolument revenir deux semaines à l’avance pour faire passer un projet de loi par rapport à l’éducation. Mais là, on nous présente des choses comme ça. Apparemment, c’est bien important ce matin qu’on se parle d’un programme qui existe depuis 12 ans, monsieur le Président. On est revenu deux semaines à l’avance pour se parler d’un programme qui existe depuis 12 ans, pour lequel on n’a l’intention de faire aucun changement. Pouvez-vous m’expliquer, c’est quoi la raison pour laquelle on est ici ce matin?

On est ici ce matin parce qu’il y a des gains politiques à faire. Le gain politique à faire là? Il est clair : c’est une élection partielle à Kitchener. C’est juste ça. Le programme de maternelle à temps plein est en place depuis 12 ans. Il va continuer comme il était supposé de continuer. Il n’y a absolument rien qui va changer. Si vous m’écoutez à la télé, vous êtes en train de perdre votre temps. Vous pouvez fermer la télé. Il n’y a rien qui est en train de se passer à Queen’s Park. On est en train de perdre notre temps, de parler d’un programme qui existe depuis 12 ans, auquel on n’a l’intention de faire aucun changement.

Mais il faut en parler parce que les libéraux pensent que, en parlant de la maternelle à temps plein, en faisant croire qu’il y a une crise dans le milieu de l’éducation puis qu’ils sont les sauveurs, eux, ils vont gagner une siège de plus à Kitchener, et ça va leur permettre d’avoir un gouvernement majoritaire.

C’est pour ça, monsieur le Président, qu’on est en train de perdre notre temps aujourd’hui pour pouvoir parler d’un programme qui ne changera pas.

Moi, je peux vous dire que dans mon comté il y a des gens qui attendent depuis longtemps de venir me rencontrer. Dans mon comté il y a des gens qui restent sur des chemins de bois; ça me prend deux heures sur un chemin de terre me rendre jusqu’à chez eux, puis eux autres, ils m’attendaient cette semaine. Je ne vais pas souvent à Bisco, puis je ne vais pas souvent dans des communautés ou je dois faire quatre heures de route en plein milieu de la saison de la foresterie, ou il y a toujours un gros « truck » qui va venir; tu es obligé de te mettre quasiment dans le fossé pour venir à bout de les laisser passer, ces affaires-là, en plein milieu du bois, mais j’y vais pendant l’été.

Je n’irai pas, monsieur. Je n’irai pas parce que je dois être ici pour vous parler d’un programme qui existe depuis 12 ans puis qui ne changera pas. Ça, c’est un affront à tous ceux qui avaient besoin de parler à leur députée. Nous ne sommes pas capables d’être dans nos comtés parce qu’il faut être ici. Il faut être ici pour que les libéraux aient quelque chose à dire dans les médias pour venir à bout de gagner un comté, et ce sont les gens qui restent dans nos comtés qui paient.

Ce sont les gens qui restent dans le nord de Nickel Belt qui s’attendaient à voir leur députée pendant les deux dernières semaines que j’étais dans mon comté qui ne me verront pas. Ce sont des gens qui vont avoir à faire quatre heures de route, deux heures de ça sur une route de gravier, pour venir me voir un vendredi quand je suis dans mon comté. C’est pas correct, ça. C’est pas correct.

Debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much. It being 10:15, this House is in recess until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO PUBLIC SERVICE

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question is to the Premier. In the budget act of 2010, you said you’d bring in a wage freeze. As part of that budget act, you had subsection 8(3), which allows for three ways you can actually increase pay for bureaucrats outside the wage freeze: (1) his or her length of time of employment or in office, (2) an assessment of his or her performance, and (3) his or her successful completion of a program or course of professional technical education.

Premier, you created a big loophole in your wage freeze that resulted in 98% of senior bureaucrats getting bonus pay increases at the time of the wage freeze. Can you answer me, directly, why did you create the McGuinty loophole in the budget bill?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: There is no doubt that the pay-for-performance system that was established by the Mike Harris government is broken. There is absolutely no question about that, Mr. Speaker. We are undertaking a review now to address the valid challenges that rest there. I remind the Leader of the Opposition that in the last budget, we froze executive compensation. He voted against that in the budget; he voted against the budget bill.

Mr. Speaker, I’ll remind him that the total amounts of money available for that type of compensation are now lower than they were when he left office in 2003. I would also remind him that a part of that money goes to front-line staff who are not part of bargained units.

We agree it is broken. We will be bringing forward appropriate changes to ensure that that Harris government policy is put out of practice and replaced with a real freeze that saves taxpayers’ money and gets us back to balance.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: You know, Speaker, there’s an expression—I know they don’t call this answer period. They’ve started calling it total evasion period on the other side of the House.

Let me see if I can get the Premier’s attention for a moment here on my lead question. Premier, I know you talk about Mike Harris every day, but Mike Harris wasn’t the Premier in 2010. You were. This is your bill, and you created the McGuinty loophole that gave 98% of bureaucrats pay increases.

Let me ask you this, Premier: Last year, you saw eHealth employees get 7% bonuses for merit for the mess they created at eHealth. Then you learned that 98% of bureaucrats got merit pay increases during a wage freeze. I know, Premier, that you would have banged your fist on your desk, you would have called staff on the carpet, you would have put an end to this. When you asked staff how many got bonus pay increases last year and the year before, what exactly did they tell you?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The pay-for-performance system is broken, and we’re going to change it. We have said that. Mr. Speaker, we have moved to freeze executive compensation across the public and broader public sectors, which was part of this year’s budget that that member and his party voted against. We concur that the appropriate course of action now is to fix that system. Therefore we will be bringing forward the appropriate legislative and administrative changes that will give effect to that.

I look forward to the Leader of the Opposition’s support of that bill. I think we will probably have it by the mid-part of September. I know he’ll want to pass that as quickly as possible, so that we can in fact address that very real question that’s still out there.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: If you want to pass it, then support Jeff Yurek’s private member’s bill from back in May that would have ended this practice—an across-the-board pay freeze.

Again, I worry that the Premier’s energy may be fizzling, like his legislative agenda in this session. I want to tell you, Premier, I’m disappointed that you have no new answers. Bill 115 will pass. We’ll support it; we’ve said that. It’s a partial wage freeze, a bit of a wage freeze on training wheels. We’re going to keep pushing for more, Speaker.

Premier, you seem to have run out of gas. You have no new ideas on the table. I’ve suggested you close the McGuinty loophole when it comes to bonus pay increases. I’ve suggested an across-the-board wage freeze as well. I’ve suggested that you end this odious practice of closed tendering that saw $148 pencil sharpeners here in Toronto, or 40% ballooning costs on Ivor Wynne stadium in Hamilton. Premier, if you’re out of ideas, which of our three ideas will you adopt to actually get serious in this session and do something about the $30-billion hole?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We have an aggressive legislative agenda that keeps teachers in schools, keeps nurses in hospitals, gets more doctors for people and will bring this government back to balance long before other jurisdictions.

We have an aggressive agenda. They have a bankrupt agenda. His member’s bill was flawed; won’t achieve what he wants to do. Later today, they’re going to introduce legislation that tells us to keep giving millions of dollars to horse track owners. That’s what they’re about; they’re about horse-race owners.

We’re about teachers. We’re about classrooms. We’re about full-day learning. We will get back to balance. We’re well on our way, through a responsible, balanced plan that will keep teachers in our classrooms and protect the important gains we’ve made in education and health care.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Nepean–Carleton, would you come to order, please.

Interjection.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: What about him, Speaker? It’s both of them.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): It’s nice to banter back and forth, but you’re being extremely loud and I cannot hear the answer. I’m sure that soon I will not be hearing the questions. Yesterday, a lot of people were complaining that I did not hear the language.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The clock, Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Stop the clock for a second.

I would ask you to keep your voices low, please. Thank you.

New question.

ONTARIO PUBLIC SERVICE

Mr. Tim Hudak: I’ll try going back to the Premier, Speaker.

Premier, I said a week ago that Bill 115 would pass—it’s a no-brainer—and I asked you what comes next. You’ve had no answers at all. Anything you have on the legislative agenda is new spending. So let me try something else, since you’ve said no to every one of our ideas.

Yesterday, Premier, you mused about ending bankable sick days across the province, the practice where sick days accumulate and then you get bought out upon retirement, some to the tune of $50,000. Quite frankly, when you’re staring at a $30-billion hole, the time for musing is over. The time for action is now. Will you support our call for an end, across the broader public service, to this bankable-sick-days practice, for the benefit of taxpayers in our great province?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: As my honourable colleague is wondering what role he might play to help us move forward good public policy, I want to remind him that our healthy homes renovation tax credit was introduced on November 23. That was 10 months ago.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, come to order, please.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: It would save seniors up to $1,500 annually; it can create over 10,000 jobs annually. They’ve been blocking that for 10 months now.

There’s the Family Caregiver Leave Act, introduced December 8. That was nine months ago. It provides up to eight weeks of job-protected leave to care for sick loved ones. They’ve been blocking that, I say once again, for nine months.

I have a longer list, Speaker. I’m looking forward to getting to more of it. My honourable colleague should understand that there are good things we can do together, but we’re going to need his support to do that.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Clearly, evasion period continues here from the Premier. I asked a very simple question. To the Premier’s point: You know what? We expected something in this session. There was all the buildup and drama. It was coming in like a legislative lion, but it has turned into a lame-duck session. Your cupboards are bare, Premier. Where are your ideas? We’re putting ours on the table—bold ideas to actually get our fiscal house in order and create jobs, and he says no to every single one.

So, Premier, I’ll ask you back: From the PC Party point of view, sick days are for being sick; that’s basic. They’re not something to be banked and stored up and then shelled out to taxpayers at the end of the day. It seems to me to be very basic that this bankable-sick-days practice is a creature of the past, and if you won’t act, my colleague will. Mr. Shurman is bringing in a bill that says sick days are for sick people. Will you support it, Premier, and end this practice that is bankrupting our province?

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Be seated, please.

Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I think my honourable colleague will know the position that we’ve taken on bankable sick days in our Putting Students First legislation.

In fact, my honourable colleague should understand that there is, in fact, I think, amongst our broader public sector partners, an openness and a willingness and an acceptance that that is a practice that really should be reviewed in light of our fiscal circumstances. In fact, 55,000 teachers have agreed that it’s no longer acceptable to have this practice of bankable sick days. So I think we’re moving in the same direction.

But there are some other practical things that we’ve been talking about for a long time here, and we could use the support of the opposition to move forward with this. One of those is the air ambulance reform act. It was introduced on March 21—that was five months ago. My honourable colleague says he’s very concerned about ensuring that we have in place all the progress that we can make with respect to improving the quality of service at Ornge, Speaker; they’ve been blocking it for five long months. If we had their support, that’s yet another piece of legislation we could move ahead with.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Premier, quite frankly, if you want to see Bill 50 debated, put it on the floor of the Legislature. You refuse to call it for a single day.

The bottom line: If you truly care about Ornge, Premier, then get out from behind your desk, go before the committee like your health minister had the guts to do, like others have had to do. What are you hiding from?

But here’s the bottom line, Premier: We support Bill 115; it’s going to pass. But if it’s good for teachers, why isn’t it good for firefighters? Let me give you some examples. Firefighters of Windsor are entitled to 18 bankable sick days a year under the current contract. If they don’t use them, they cash them out. Once they retire, they can cash out up to six months, approximately a $50,000 payoff from already hard-hit taxpayers in Windsor. This costs $2 million to $3 million to the city of Windsor.

My colleague Mr. Shurman is leading. He’s going to bring in the Sick Days are for Sick People Act. Premier, doesn’t that sound fair and reasonable? Will you work with Mr. Shurman or, at the very least, will you support this bill to help begin to balance the books in the province of Ontario?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: We’re delighted to see that you’re following our lead. We’ve stated very specifically where we stand on bankable sick days with respect to the agreements that we’ve entered into with 55,000 Ontario teachers.

If my honourable colleague is proposing that they reach into municipal employee groups, then I think that may be a horse of a different colour. My approach with respect to that is to encourage municipalities to take a look at their fiscal circumstances, to ask themselves what’s appropriate today. What’s appropriate today may not have been what was appropriate before, so that may require that they make some changes. We understand that.

We’ve indicated where we are going with respect to our agreement with teachers. We’re delighted to see that we have the support of 55,000 teachers in that regard. Speaker, we’ll have more to say about this in the days to come.

ONTARIO PUBLIC SERVICE

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Can the Premier tell us when he first learned that 98% of managers and executives in the Ontario public service were receiving bonuses in this time of restraint?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I understand that my honourable colleague is moving ahead with a bill, and I want to second the sentiments and the intent that informs that proposed legislation, and we look forward to learning a few more details connected with that.

I have said that if 98% of those who were eligible for performance pay are getting it, then it’s not performance pay, it’s just pay, and we need to review that practice that was put in place by the PC government. I’ve asked the Minister of Finance to take a long, hard look at that and to return to this House with a proposed bill. We look forward to working with the opposition to make sure we get that right.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, the Premier has asked Ontario families to tighten their belts, and our schools, our hospitals. In hundreds of aspects of everyday life, people are being told that we’re in an era of restraint. Yet as people are making these sacrifices, they consistently see that those who least need a break keep getting one.

Can the Premier explain to them why this keeps happening and when, if ever, he plans to do something about it?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: As the leader of the third party has indicated, they have brought forward a bill, and we’re grateful of that. Their bill does have some flaws. Their bill would cover approximately 30 of the 9,000 employees who got compensation—30 of 9,000, Mr. Speaker.

I’ll go on to some more details about the shortcomings in the bill. It was obviously done on the back of a napkin and rushed out the door because of political purposes during the by-election. She also, in her bill, overrides Bill 55, the executive compensation freeze. I’m sure that was an administrative oversight on their part, because she supported that at the time. But her bill that she’s tabling today will affect 30 employees. It will override the executive compensation freeze, and while it’s an important step forward, we’ll bring forward a comprehensive response that deals with the real problem, not just for the by-elections next week but for a better future for all Ontarians.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, those who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones, I would say. The reality is, the Premier likes to point a finger of blame, and so does the finance minister, at everybody except for themselves, but people are not going to be fooled any more. If they are genuinely interested in a balanced approach to balancing the books, we have a pretty good idea with this bill.

I just want to know, is this government prepared to take a very simple step and work with New Democrats to ban bonuses for executives in this province?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Yes. Unfortunately, you’ve only dealt with 30 people who have contracts; the other 8,970 don’t. You’ve exempted bargained employees. She has exempted AMAPCEO employees, many of whom get pay-for-performance increases.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, come to order, please.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: That’s not acceptable. We will bring forward a comprehensive piece of legislation that is about a better future for Ontario, that allows us to balance the books while we continue to—

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, I would ask you to come to order and lower your voice. The next warning would be my final.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Mr. Speaker, we welcome this bill. It’s flawed, it’s incomplete, it’s one-sided, and it’s designed for the by-elections next week. We’ll bring forward a comprehensive response to an important public policy challenge that’s in the best interests of all Ontarians.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. New question.

TEACHERS’ CONTRACTS

Ms. Andrea Horwath: New Democrats don’t believe in just tearing up contracts. We think it costs the province a heck of a lot more money in the long run, and that’s why we’ve put our bill together the way we have.

My next question, Speaker, is to the Premier. Earlier this year, the Premier stated, “We feel obligated to follow the law set up by the Supreme Court of Canada when it comes to dealing with our public sector partners.” Can I just ask the Premier, when did he decide that he’s no longer obligated to follow the law?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I’m delighted to take the question, Speaker, but I see things differently from my honourable colleague in this regard. We have been very careful in taking the advice of experts in this area in ensuring that we are following the law. I know there was a specific criticism in the Supreme Court of Canada decision of the BC government because they failed to give adequate notice. I think, in the circumstances, they gave 20 minutes’ notice to their collective bargaining partners. We’ve been working on this for some six months. There was a specific reference in the budget papers back in March of this year, setting out the program—

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Page 74.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Page 74; I’d recommend that to my honourable colleague.

Mr. Paul Miller: Page 74?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Page 74. I’d recommend that he take a look at that, Speaker. You’ll see that we make specific reference to the fact that we work as hard as we can through collective bargaining. If we can’t achieve it through there, Speaker, then we’ll find a way to make it happen otherwise, including through legislation.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, everyone realizes that today the Canadian Civil Liberties Association added their voice to the growing number of experts who say that the government’s legislation goes too far and it’s likely to cost us a lot of money when it’s thrown out of the courts. Earlier today, the association director said that this bill violates people’s rights. She went on to say, “People’s rights are not something to be trifled with.” Frankly, I agree with her. Can the Premier produce any evidence that his bill won’t be thrown out by the Supreme Court?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I think that this does present us with an opportunity to compare the positions of the three parties that are privileged to serve in this Legislature. My honourable colleague the leader of the NDP says that we are moving far too aggressively. The leader of the Progressive Conservatives says that we are being far too timid. We’re bringing a balanced, thoughtful, responsible approach. We are working as hard as we can through the collective bargaining process.

We’ve also made it clear that if that fails to achieve our fiscal targets, then we will do what is necessary to uphold the greater public interest, which demands that we take concrete steps to eliminate the deficit and do it in a way that protects our schools and protects our health care. We’re in the middle, Speaker. We’re balanced, thoughtful, responsible and lawful.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I don’t think the Premier has been paying attention. We think that they’re looking after their own self-interest. That’s where we’re coming from on this side of the House. They’re taking care of their own self-interest when it comes to this bill. It’s not about aggressiveness; it’s about their own self-interest as opposed to the public interest.

After months and months of warning about the dangers of the Conservatives’ short-sighted, simplistic wage plans, the Premier now expects people to embrace his short-sighted, simplistic wage plans. I don’t think he’s going to succeed.

People are very tired. They are weary of paying the price for this government’s desperate drive for majority power. And parents certainly don’t want to pay the price in our classrooms either.

Why is this Premier rejecting the advice of constitutional experts who say that this bill simply won’t work? Is it only because he has a by-election on his radar next week?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, earlier I talked about the contrasting positions between the three parties. Now I’ll just focus on the difference between our approach and that of the NDP.

The NDP are in favour of a pay hike for teachers. We can’t afford that at this point in time. We think that what little money we have should be devoted to improving the quality of the classroom experience.

The other thing that our agreement does and that our legislation does is, it puts an end to bankable sick days. A moment ago, she said she was against bankable sick days. Now she’s saying that in fact she’s going to be supportive of them.

Speaker, I think it’s important to understand that ultimately what this is all about, when you cut right through the fog, is: They want to give teachers an increase in pay. We can’t afford to do that right now, not given our fiscal constraints. What we need to do is make difficult but sensible and thoughtful choices. Our choice, instead of putting money into teacher pay, is to put it into the classroom and roll out full-day kindergarten and keep class sizes small. That’s in the interests of students and families.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is to the Premier. Yesterday the Premier chose to ignore the request of the committee that he appear as a witness. He decided it was more important to host a photo op—

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Would the Minister of the Environment come to order.

Mr. Frank Klees: Then he told us that he’ll answer any questions here in the Legislature. But Hansard does not lie, because the record will show that virtually every question he was asked about that scandal here he deflected to the minister, to his House leader or the Minister of Finance.

Choosing to deflect those questions is not good enough. We won’t accept it; the people of this province won’t accept it. That’s why this morning the committee clerk was instructed to once again extend an invitation to the Premier to appear next Wednesday at 9 a.m. at the committee as a witness.

I’d like to know now from the Premier: Will he respect the request of that committee or will he choose once again to host a photo op rather than do the important thing, and that is to show up here and answer the important questions?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I’m here today to take these questions. I’ll be here on Monday to take questions, Tuesday to take questions, Wednesday to take questions, and, if we’re sitting on Thursday, I’ll be here on Thursday to take questions as well.

I would suggest we’ve had a very thorough process to this point in time. The opposition has asked 467 questions in question period related to Ornge. There have been countless questions, of course, by the media. The committee has entertained 56 witnesses. They’ve heard from the Minister of Health on three separate occasions. They’ve sat for 81 hours, in 17 days. They’ve examined thousands of pages of documents and they’ve produced over 800 pages of Hansard. I would suggest that if nothing, the committee’s work has been exhaustive. I think it’s time for us to receive some positive recommendations so we can act on those.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, the Premier knows that his excuses are not only insulting to the committee, they’re insulting to the institution of Parliament and they’re insulting to the people of this province. Anyone who is familiar with the operation of question period knows that questions and answers are limited to but a few seconds. The reality is, that’s why we have committees of the Legislature—so that we can call witnesses and investigate what they know.

We happen to believe that the Premier knows an awful lot more than he’s willing to tell us. That’s why, Speaker, he was called as a witness. I want to give the Premier one more opportunity to respect the parliamentary process and to respect the institution of Parliament. I’d like to ask him now, will you agree to appear as a witness at the Standing Committee on Public Accounts on the scandal at Ornge and tell us what you know, when you heard about it, what you did and why you chose not to put your hand into an intervening position on that scandal that has wasted millions of health care dollars in this province?

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order, please. Can I have everyone sitting?

Premier.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I say to my honourable colleague, I think he just wasted two specific opportunities to put specific questions to me.

I think Ontarians have different kinds of questions that weigh on their minds, should they give this some consideration. One of those would be, why does the opposition continue to block Bill 50? They say that they’re interested in ensuring that we improve the quality of oversight that we bring to bear over Ornge. Bill 50 enhances our capacity as a government to put in place that kind of oversight.

They’re also asking, after this exhaustive committee experience—56 witnesses, 81 hours, reviewing thousands of pages of documentation, over 800 pages of Hansard having been produced, Speaker—how much longer Ontarians are going to have to wait before the committee provides us with some positive, substantive recommendations.

The opposition says that they’re interested on making progress on this file. So are we. Give us the recommendations and allow us to move forward with Bill 50.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée. Yesterday in public accounts, former Ornge employee Jay Lebo told the committee about the lies and illegal actions that were rampant at Ornge. This dates back to as early as 2008—around the same time the whistle-blowers started coming to your ministry. Speaker, I want to know, why did it take three long years? Why did we have to wait until the scandal hit the press before the minister acted?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, there is no question that there were activities at Ornge that are completely unacceptable. In fact, that is why the senior leadership that was at Ornge is no longer there. That is why the board of directors is no longer there. We have new leadership making the right decisions, providing more care for more people.

The committee has heard, as we’ve heard from the Premier, an extraordinary amount of testimony. Members of this Legislature need to now take the time to actually write the report and deliver their recommendations. We’re talking about air ambulance service. This is an important topic. If you have advice, we want to know it. Please, I urge the member opposite to get that report and its recommendations to the government as quickly as possible.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: Speaker, the problem is that the minister has never admitted that her ministry did anything wrong. Were there things wrong at Ornge? Absolutely. But they were doing wrong in the ministry as well. They failed to provide proper oversight of Ornge. In the Auditor General’s special report, he is crystal clear: The problems that developed at Ornge are due to a lack of oversight from the Ministry of Health. When will the minister admit that she got it wrong and that Ontarians can be reassured that next time we will get it right?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I have been very clear from the beginning that I take my full share of responsibility, my ministry takes its full share of responsibility and we are putting in place those elements that were recommended by the Auditor General. We have a new performance agreement that gives us much stronger oversight.

We need Bill 50 passed. We can no longer tolerate the opposition blocking the passage of Bill 50. It contains more rigorous oversight; it contains protection for whistle-blowers. It’s time to put the political games aside and move forward for the benefit of the people of this province.

TEACHERS’ CONTRACTS

Ms. Helena Jaczek: My question is to the Minister of Education. This House has been recalled to address an important issue: ensuring that school starts in September, as scheduled, and continues uninterrupted. The Putting Students First Act protects the classroom experience for Ontario students, while asking teachers to take a pause in their pay, given the challenging economic circumstances that the province faces.

The Putting Students First Act is based on an agreement that the government reached with the Catholic teachers’ union, OECTA. This deal was the result of more than 300 hours of discussions. One of the provisions of the OECTA memorandum of understanding is around a teacher’s use of diagnostics. Speaker, through you to the minister: Would you please clarify what this means?

Hon. Laurel C. Broten: First, let me say how proud I am of the deal that we reached with OECTA. Many people thought that that deal wasn’t possible, but both parties persevered through some very challenging discussions, and after more than 300 hours, we reached an agreement which reflects our core commitment to student achievement. The approach that we’ve taken is designed to protect teaching jobs, small class sizes, maintenance of the classroom experience and full-day kindergarten.

Mr. Speaker, the increase in diagnostic assessment is fairly recent, and it’s been part of how we’ve seen improved student achievement in our schools. These assessments are different from standardized tests or tests for report cards—they’ll continue to exist. But we don’t believe we have the balance right when it comes to the teacher’s ability to make decisions about the student in front of them. The OECTA MOU requires that teachers continue to conduct these assessments and that absolutely no teacher can opt out. But instead of testing for the sake of testing, we’ll ensure that these assessments inform the instruction of students, because that’s the right thing to do.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Thank you, Speaker. Again to the minister: We’re all aware that the PCs do not share our view that teachers should be supported in their ability to make decisions around assessments. We’ve also heard that they are opposed to teachers across this province being hired in a fair and transparent way.

Given the realities of this minority government, you made changes to your bill to reflect their position. Minister, do these changes to the legislation around the balanced use of diagnostics and fair hiring no longer apply to any school board?

Hon. Laurel C. Broten: As members of this Legislature will know, before we introduced the Putting Students First Act in this House, we took the rare step of releasing the legislation publicly and also to the opposition. We got some advice from the official opposition, and the changes reflect their advice without amending the memorandum of understanding that was reached after six months and 300 hours of discussion. They were incorporated before introduction to help speed this bill’s passage.

But let me be very clear: Every school board in the province will be required to abide by the same fair and transparent hiring practices and the same balanced approach to diagnostic assessment. What is different is that only the boards with OECTA and AEFO teachers, or any others who sign agreements before August 31, will be required to embed those provisions in local collective agreements. My strong preference was to see these provisions in every collective agreement and also in law, but minority calls for reasonable compromise, so we’ll move forward with a regulation and a policy direction under the Education Act in order that we can see this bill passed.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Rob Leone: My question is for the Premier. Premier, I don’t know if you know this, but people call you the Teflon Premier. It’s not a compliment. They call you the Teflon Premier because you refuse to let anything stick to you. You refuse to show any accountability and responsibility. You occasionally provide a half-hearted apology, but when it comes to important issues facing Ontarians today, you let them slide right off of you.

So far, over 50 witnesses have been called to testify at the Standing Committee on Public Accounts investigating your government’s Ornge air ambulance scandal. So far only two people have not agreed to testify: Dr. Chris Mazza and the Premier. That’s some pretty select company for the Teflon Premier.

My question to the Premier is simpler: If you’re not hiding anything, why don’t you give the people of Ontario an hour of your time and testify in front of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts on Wednesday at 9 a.m.?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, that’s the 469th question asked by the opposition on the matter of Ornge, but I would also put it in the same category as the one asked a few moments ago because it was a wasted opportunity to ask me something specific.

Again, we draw a distinction between the partisan interest and the public interest. The public interest demands that we continue to find ways to make progress. Bill 50 represents progress and is in keeping with the public interest. Receiving recommendations from the good work that has been done by the committee is in keeping with the public interest and that represents real progress.

I hope, on behalf of Ontarians, that at some point in time, the folks opposite will stop blocking Bill 50 and will give specific recommendations we can move forward with to enhance the services provided by Ornge.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. Rob Leone: Mr. Speaker, let’s be serious. This government’s handling of the Ornge air ambulance scandal has been a debacle from start to finish. Witnesses have testified that this government stood by while employees were intimidated. Witnesses have testified that this government allowed millions of taxpayer dollars to line the pockets of Liberal insiders. Most egregious of all, witnesses have testified that the government has allowed patient safety to be compromised. All this information, all the work that this committee has done has come from testimony and people who want to improve the situation at Ornge.

Imagine what we could learn if the Premier decided to testify. Imagine what we could learn if the Premier wanted to improve the situation.

Premier, will you do the honourable thing? Stand up, go to public accounts next Wednesday at 9 a.m. and tell the people of Ontario how you will improve the situation at Ornge.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Another wasted opportunity, Speaker. I’m here every day at question period and no specific, substantive questions are coming to me. There’s just an endless litany of rants and rhetoric, which I don’t think serve the public interest.

I think the Ornge committee has done some good work. They’ve heard from many, many witnesses. They’ve had the opportunity to examine thousands of pages of documentation. That work comes in concert with the work that we have done as a government to change the leadership, put in place a new performance agreement, to adopt the recommendations put forward by the auditor, to bring in the Ontario Provincial Police. We now have a specific piece of legislation, Bill 50. We’d like to move forward with that but they’re blocking that.

We’re also very interested in receiving specific recommendations: positive, constructive recommendations that will improve circumstances—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Answer.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: —at Ornge, but we continue to wait for those recommendations. We continue to wait for support. When it comes to blocking Bill 50, I want to assure Ontarians they’re for the partisan interest; we remain solely for the public interest.

ANIMAL PROTECTION

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My question is to the Premier. Ontarians are absolutely outraged at the mistreatment of whales, dolphins and seals at Marineland. A new poll shows 83% of Ontarians want stronger regulation of zoos and aquariums. The US, in fact, has legislated protection of marine mammals since the 1970s. When will your government finally protect marine mammals in Ontario?

I want to assure my honourable colleague and Ontarians alike that we are taking a very, very close look at the circumstances there, that we are allowing the SPCA to conduct their investigation and we’re awaiting any advice that we might receive whatsoever that would lead us to come to the conclusion that we need to put in place stronger laws in Ontario. I will say to my honourable colleague that I appreciate the question she has brought to us today, and I appreciate the concerns expressed by thousands and thousands of Ontarians around the province.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: For years, Ontario’s Environmental Commissioner has been urging the McGuinty government in vain to review its zoo licensing policies and to prevent substandard facilities, like the one we discussed, from obtaining exotic species. Zoos and aquariums need licences to keep chipmunks and raccoons, but they don’t need licences for whales or dolphins or lions or elephants. Let me repeat that: They need licences for raccoons and chipmunks, but they don’t need licences for whales or dolphins or lions or elephants. When will this government—we’re asking when, Mr.

Premier—finally put forward legislation to protect sea mammals and exotic animals in Ontario? The OSPCA can do nothing without legislation.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I too am very concerned about what is happening, and I want to thank the journalists who put this story in the forefront. I was very perturbed when this happened, and that’s why, in 2009, we—our government—amended the legislation, and we now have the best legislation in Canada. This legislation had not been amended for the past 90 years, so we did it. If this legislation does not protect the marine mammals in Marineland, we will amend the legislation to make sure that all animals in Ontario are well protected.

ANIMAL PROTECTION

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti: My question also is to the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Minister, I listened to your answer right now, and I appreciate that this government is taking this issue very seriously. As we know, there have been allegations made about Marineland and the health and wellness of animals at the facility. The news reports, as you said, have been disturbing and deeply troubling. My office has received emails and phone calls from many constituents and residents across Ontario who are very concerned about the issue and want us to take action.

Minister, what is the government doing to ensure that animals in Ontario are safe from abuse and neglect?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Again, I was very concerned about what I read. But one thing that I want to say to Ontarians: I want to say to you that, if you see something like this, the first thing you should do is call the OSPCA. Yes, you can call the media, but first call the OSPCA, because they are the ones that can go and do the investigation. I’m told that in that situation they didn’t have any complaints, so I was sorry to hear that. But again, we amended the legislation in 2009 to make sure that all animals in Ontario are well protected.

I was very perturbed when the opposition put forward legislation to diminish the power of the OSPCA. If their legislation had passed, the OSPCA would not have been able to go there right away.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary.

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti: My follow-up question is to the minister. As we know, this legislation, the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, is an important piece of legislation. You have mentioned how important it is. There have been allegations stating that Ontario has no laws controlling aquariums and zoos or protecting the animals inside. As I said earlier, it’s very concerning to me and, I’m sure, to every member here and to many residents across Ontario. We’ve seen the photographs; we’ve seen the articles. It’s quite disconcerting when you see some of these marine animals being treated the way they are.

Can you say with certainty, Minister, that our legislation protects these animals in these facilities?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Yes, the legislation that we have in place does protect the animals. It’s the strongest legislation that exists in Canada. Again, if I’m told that our legislation right now does not protect the marine mammals in Marineland, we will amend the legislation, because there’s no place in Ontario for the mistreatment of animals.

Shame on you, the Conservative Party, who moved forward with legislation to diminish the powers of the OSPCA. You should be embarrassed, and people should take you to task for that.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order, please. Can everyone sit? Stop the clock.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Jack MacLaren doesn’t like it.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Minister of the Environment.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order, please.

Next question.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is for the Premier. Premier, in order to provide this House with accurate recommendations on how to improve patient safety at Ornge, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts needs everyone with relevant information to come forward so that we can get to the bottom of this.

You claim that your government wants to get to the bottom of this scandal, and you’ve said here today that you don’t want to waste an opportunity to answer specific questions. Well, there is such an opportunity, Premier. It’s next Wednesday at 9 o’clock in front of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. Will you agree to appear?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I would recommend to my honourable colleagues opposite that they understand that there is some urgency associated with improving the quality of an air ambulance service. These are people who are involved in emergencies. You would think that the opposition would be possessed by a sense of urgency. That’s why I ask yet again, on behalf of Ontarians: Why do they stand in the way of passage of Bill 50? Why do they stand in the way of the committee concluding its work so it can provide us with some specific recommendations?

We’ve gone about as far as we can go as a government. We’ve replaced the leadership, put in place a new performance agreement, brought in the OPP and crafted legislation based on recommendations received from the auditor. Now we await support from the opposition with respect to Bill 50 and we await their recommendations. If they’re truly, genuinely concerned about improving the quality of services offered by Ornge, then allow us to get this work done on behalf of patients.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Mr. Speaker, this government hasn’t even seen Bill 50 to be important enough to even have called it, so forget about that.

Secondly, with respect to appearances before the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, this government has reversed themselves completely from what they said earlier this spring about why we should be asking these questions.

I would read from Hansard from April 25 of this year. The Minister of Health said, “The member opposite is at that committee”—the Standing Committee on Public Accounts—“and she is able to ask questions at that committee. I think it’s important that members of this Legislature do have the ability to ask those questions....”

Clearly, it’s a priority for this government that we deal with those issues in committee. That’s what we’re attempting to do. Yesterday at committee, yet another one of the cabinet ministers, the Minister of Natural Resources, was found to be guiding a witness to give cover to the Minister of Health and to interim Ornge CEO Ron McKerlie.

Too many key players that are connected to this Premier are connected with this, from Liberal president Alfred Apps, Liberal strategist Don Guy and the Minister of Health. Premier, will you appear before the committee?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I might categorize my honourable colleague’s assertion, contained within her question, as fanciful. I think that’s the kindest way I can put it, Speaker.

What I can say is that I am here today, as I am pretty well every day during question period, to receive questions from my colleagues in the opposition. But I’m very concerned about the passage of Bill 50, and I want to put my honourable colleague on notice that at the end of question period today we will be seeking unanimous consent to receive second and third reading passage of Bill 50, so it can move forward right away. In a few moments we can hear that, Speaker. At the end of the day, we should be learning whether they’re going to support that on behalf of Ontarians.

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture. By now it’s no secret that thousands of good-paying jobs will be lost as a result of your government’s decision to recklessly end the slots-at-racetracks program without any consultation. Even your own transitional panel has concluded that the $50-million fund you propose will be completely inadequate to support any bridge to sustainability for the industry. Minister, when will your government produce a transition plan that will allow for real sustainability for the horse racing industry?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: That’s a very good question from the member opposite. I appreciate it. As he knows, having been integrally involved in the issue for some time, which I also appreciate, I’ve asked the panel to spend some time working with the industry to see if we can come up with a way forward. You know that our good friends John Snobelen and Elmer Buchanan had some very interesting comments about the SAR program, which I accept. I also accept their observations, many of which were very positive, and have asked them to work toward seeing if we can point a way forward.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Your own panel estimates that the horse racing industry sustains 20,000 to 30,000 full-time jobs and thousands more part-time and seasonal jobs. It also makes it clear that most of these jobs are in danger of being lost unless there is sustainability put on the table, more so than the $50 million currently pledged.

Minister, these are business people. They make decisions three and four years in advance. What I’m asking you for today is a specific timeline. Are we waiting weeks, are we waiting months, are we waiting years before this government comes to the table with a comprehensive plan to ensure that the industry can transition into sustainability and maintain those good-paying rural jobs?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Thanks again for the question. The report was quite decidedly clear about both the challenges in the industry as well as some of the potential hopeful aspects to the industry. I have asked the panel to continue to work with the industry, which by the way has been absolutely wonderful in terms of offering input. Hundreds of people offered input to the panel, and their report has been very, very well received within the industry. So I’ve asked the panel to reflect with the industry on what that might look like, and I’ve asked them to report by September 30. You know that.

ONTARIO PLACE

Mr. Mario Sergio: My question is for the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport. There has been a lot of talk this summer regarding the future of Ontario Place. As a resident of Toronto for the past 54 years, I have always enjoyed visits to Ontario Place as a special summer treat, as have many like me in Toronto and across the province. What was once a thriving waterfront attraction for families has suffered a steady decline in attendance numbers over the past decades.

Furthermore, despite numerous studies over the past 20 years to assess strategies to improve Ontario Place, it has largely remained unchanged for its 41 years. Can the minister please elaborate on what this government is doing differently to ensure Ontario Place’s future success?

Hon. Michael Chan: Thank you very much to the honourable member for asking the question. Speaker, this summer our government accepted all 18 recommendations proposed by my advisory panel on Ontario Place revitalization. The panel was chaired by John Tory and had six outstanding members, and I want to thank them for, really, a job well done.

We started a decisive plan to revitalize, renew and rejuvenate Ontario Place so that residents and visitors alike can rediscover this iconic attraction.

Speaker, a complex undertaking, the first of its kind in the history of Ontario Place, will begin with phase 1 work, including undertaking technical due diligence, site investigations, initiating an environmental assessment process and engaging in preliminary conversations with the private sector and the city of Toronto. We will gather information needed to ensure responsible, informed and prudent planning in revitalizing Ontario Place.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary?

Mr. Mario Sergio: I have to thank the minister for his wonderful response.

Again, through you, Speaker: I know that many in my riding of York West are very interested in what the future vision of Ontario Place will mean for families and the people of our province.

As we consider the future of Ontario Place, it is necessary to reflect on our past. For over 40 years, Ontario Place has been synonymous with our city’s landscape: the Cinesphere and pods—an iconic landmark at our waterfront.

With 18 recommendations to consider, is there a core theme to ensure that Ontario Place remains a place for the public to enjoy, and can the minister please explain what original aspects of Ontario Place will be retained, if any?

Hon. Michael Chan: We are committed to ensuring that Ontario Place will be a place for Ontarians to live, to work, to play and to discover. Key priorities include: barrier-free access to the waterfront; favouring submissions that incorporate the Cinesphere and pods; year-round activities and events to draw diverse audiences; a mixed-use facility with strong private-public partnerships to offer innovative programming; and a residential component.

Speaker, allow me to be clear: Any development must protect sightlines to the water and create open public access to the waterfront.

Our priority is to ensure that Ontario Place will be a thriving cultural attraction that is sustainable for future generations, boosting tourism and creating jobs.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mr. Michael Harris: My question is for the Premier. Premier, your health minister has overseen as much waste, corruption and scandal as the former CEO of Enron, yet you continue to keep her on board and reject our demands for her resignation. So let’s do a quick performance review to get to the bottom of it right here and now.

She’s withheld critical information to get to the bottom of the mess at Ornge. She’s racked up more than $2 billion on your botched eHealth project with little to no results. She’s even refused to allow the region of Waterloo to implement a life-saving emergency dispatching system that would shave two precious minutes off our response times.

So, Premier, will you commit to doing two things today: First, show up at the public accounts committee on Wednesday and tell the truth; and second, fire your incompetent health minister today?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I’ve spoken on countless occasions about how my honourable colleagues in opposition see the matter of Ornge purely as a partisan political game. If ever there was evidence of that, it is my honourable colleague’s comparison of our respected Minister of Health to the former leadership at Enron. I think that is beneath the dignity of this institution, and I would ask that my honourable colleague withdraw that.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Supplementary? The member for Newmarket–Aurora.

Mr. Frank Klees: Speaker, my question is a very specific one to the Premier about the air ambulance scandal. He asked for a very specific question; I’m going to give it to him.

The Premier knows how the system of debate works in this House. He knows how bills are passed. He knows that it is the government that calls bills for debate. He should