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May 14, 1998

36th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

L013 - Thu 14 May 1998 / Jeu 14 Mai 1998 1

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

IRISH HERITAGE DAY ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LE JOUR DU PATRIMOINE IRLANDAIS

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC AMENDMENT ACT (LICENCE SUSPENSIONS), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT LE CODE DE LA ROUTE (SUSPENSIONS DE PERMIS)

IRISH HERITAGE DAY ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LE JOUR DU PATRIMOINE IRLANDAIS

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC AMENDMENT ACT (LICENCE SUSPENSIONS), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT LE CODE DE LA ROUTE (SUSPENSIONS DE PERMIS)

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

BERYL POTTER

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

BUSINESS AWARDS

INTERCOUNTRY ADOPTION

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

INTERNATIONAL DAY OF THE FAMILY

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

TOURISM

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PREVENTION OF UNIONIZATION ACT (ONTARIO WORKS), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 VISANT À EMPÊCHER LA SYNDICALISATION (PROGRAMME ONTARIO AU TRAVAIL)

INTERCOUNTRY ADOPTION (THE HAGUE CONVENTION) ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR L'ADOPTION INTERNATIONALE (CONVENTION DE LA HAYE)

TECHNOLOGY FOR CLASSROOMS TAX CREDIT ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LE CRÉDIT D'IMPÔT FAVORISANT L'EMP/ LOI DE LA TECHNOLOGIE DANS LES SALLES DE CLASSE

VISITORS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ONTARIO WORKS

ORAL QUESTIONS

TUITION FEES

TEXTBOOKS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

EDUCATION FUNDING

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

SCHOOL TEACHERS

POLICE SERVICES

AIR QUALITY

CASINO WINDSOR

SPACE SCIENCES

TUITION FEES

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

PETITIONS

CHIROPRACTIC HEALTH CARE

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

ABORTION

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

ADULT OCCUPATIONAL CENTRE

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

RENT REGULATION

FIREARMS CONTROL

BEAR HUNTING

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

EDUCATION REFORM

CHIROPRACTIC HEALTH CARE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SMALL BUSINESS AND CHARITIES PROTECTION ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LA PROTECTION DES PETITES ENTREPRISES ET DES ORGANISMES DE BIENFAISANCE

ADJOURNMENT DEBATE

The House met at 1003.

Prayers.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

IRISH HERITAGE DAY ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LE JOUR DU PATRIMOINE IRLANDAIS

Mr O'Toole moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 8,

An Act proclaiming Irish Heritage Day / Projet de loi 8, Loi proclamant le Jour du patrimoine irlandais.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Gilles E. Morin): Pursuant to standing order 95(c)(i), the honourable member has 10 minutes for his presentation.

Mr John O'Toole (Durham East): It is my privilege to stand in the House today -

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: Because this is such a significant bill that is being presented, the House has a special presentation to make to Mr O'Toole. We are looking for unanimous consent to have him wear this pin that says, "Very Irish but hardly green." This comes with the compliments of Patrick Gillen of Irish Traditions Ltd at 444 Yonge Street. In fact, after I told him about this bill, he decided that he would supply pins for the House. Do we have unanimous consent?

The Acting Speaker: Agreed? Agreed.

Mr O'Toole: I would like to thank the member for Sudbury. It's very Irish and very blue.

It is a privilege to stand in the House today to discuss my private member's Bill, Bill 8,

An Act proclaiming Irish Heritage Day, March 17, in Ontario.

The act, if passed, will establish St Patrick's Day as a day of provincial recognition on which to commemorate and celebrate the historic legacy of Ontario's Irish community and its outstanding contributions to Ontario society.

At the outset I would like to say that our cultural heritage is one of the most important aspects of our identity and self-understanding. It was Patrick Moynihan in the US who wrote about the importance of cultural continuity and personal links to a wider extended family as a source of values for one's own life amidst the impersonal consumerism of North America.

Canada's multicultural self-identity is one in which Canadians uniquely blend our Canadian citizenship with the traditions of the countries left behind, which either we or our ancestors migrated from in search of a better life.

All Canadian cherish heritage. Respectfully, we live in Canada in a province like Ontario that celebrates a cultural mosaic. We have many cultural celebrations, like Caribana in Toronto, Oktoberfest in Kitchener, and in my riding of Durham East, the city of Oshawa has a wonderful Fiesta Week where most cultural groups celebrate their heritage. The Dutch, a very important group in my riding, Ukrainian, Greek, Italian, German, Caribbean, French, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, African and every cultural group celebrate during some time of the year.

We all at some point, and some with more intensity than others, search for our roots, a search for meaning, and this is good.

I looked in the dictionary to define the term "Irish." "Irish" is from the term "Iras," meaning of Celtic origin. The word "heritage" is described as "the sum of the qualities and potentialities genetically derived from one's ancestors."

My immediate family began its history with my father, Claire Michael O'Toole, and my mother, Ruth Annabel Driscoll. All their parents were born in Canada. Their parents had settled outside Peterborough. I am fourth-generation Irish. County Wicklow and county Cork are the places of the family roots. Sadly, I have not yet visited Ireland, but my oldest son Erin has on a couple of occasions and my sister Jane O'Toole-Goodman is planning a trip this summer. Many Irish are given to making this lifetime pilgrimage. I hope to make the voyage after my life in politics, some time in the distant future.

My cousin Lawrence O'Toole suggests that he is a distant relative of St Lawrence O'Toole, who it is said, was related to St Patrick himself. There's a tradition. It is also strongly believed that what is Power Court Park today was once the O'Toole family lands.

There are many stories like this in the Emerald Isle.

My wife's name is Peggy. Imagine that, Peggy O'Toole. It is almost like the lyrics of an Irish melody. Part of Peggy's family also comes from Ireland. Her grandfather, Herbert Brown, was a loyal Orangeman right to the end of his life. It is rumoured that there were Catholics on that side of the family, but then there are things we don't talk about. I do know, however, that they did have a beautiful daughter, my wife.

The Irish have been in Canada for over 300 years and are officially recognized as one of the founding peoples. As a people, we are an integral part of Canada's national culture and identity, as is a right of all Canadians of all backgrounds. The Irish influence is evidenced in the coat of arms of Canada with the royal harp of Tara, the shamrock and the cross of St Patrick. These symbols and traditions are important and they are important to all countries.

In the early 1800s approximately 3,000 Irish settled in the Peterborough area. Peter Robinson and other famous settlers of the area are now all an important part of that area's history. Many small villages and towns in Ontario were inhabited and developed by the Irish, and these people became the community leaders. They worked and were hardworking and built communities in Ontario.

In my research, I discovered in the census of 1841-42, 1851, 1861, and right up to 1881, that when the birthplaces of all British North Americans were tallied up, Ireland recorded the largest number of those born outside the country. In the census of 1842, Upper Canada, now Ontario, had 78,255 Irish-born inhabitants, making them the largest non-indigenous group.

The Irish of the day were priests, ministers, farmers, labourers, tradesmen, merchants, lawyers, teachers and indeed politicians.

You may ask the question, "What is the most significant contribution to civilization the Irish have made?" It has often been stated that Ireland has produced a disproportionate number of scholars, orators and writers. The speeches of Edmund Burke and the speeches of playwright and speaker-orator Richard Brinsley Sheridan are manifestations of a rhetorical tradition central to the Irish sentiment and feelings. Mr Sean Conway, the member for Renfrew North, often imitates some of these traditions in the House here today.

The list of Irish artists and scholars goes back to Jonathan Swift, William Butler Yeats, Oscar Wilde, Samuel Beckett, James Joyce, Brendan Behan, Marshall McLuhan, and more recently, Conor McPherson, Martin McDonagh and Maeve Binchy.

The tradition of the Irish storyteller is well documented, and I can recall my father's ability to recite poetry at will and his love of books. My father's family boasted of his three sons who attended university, and indeed, my Uncle Alphonse O'Toole had two PhDs, one in mathematics and one in education. Their love of literature and culture is perhaps the greatest legacy of the Irish culture.

Like many people, and this happens today, some people are mischaracterized and misrepresented. I recall as a youth that the Irish were referred to as dogans or micks, hard drinkers, hard fighters, boxers and perhaps good sports, all brawn and - you know the rest. But when we think today - these characterizations are not helpful to any culture - we must look at the gifts and strengths of people and find positive common ground. No one is perfect.

My bill does not address the long struggle of all Irishmen. The religious arguments must be put aside. The time has passed. The struggle over land, as characterized by the famous Irish film The Field, is all part of the history that we can learn from and resolve never to repeat. I would rather dwell on those things of a positive nature that we can agree on and move forward. I prefer to think of the beautiful Irish dancers, most recently the Riverdance group, the popular Leah family, the resurgence of Celtic studies, Irish humour and, of course, Irish whiskey, but just a dram - above all, just a dram.

Over the past few months, in consulting with a variety of Irish groups, I have been amazed by the depth of interest. Mr Pat Rooney of the Emerald Isle Seniors Society; Tiarnan and Marilyn Carter de Freine, editors of the Toronto Irish News; the Celtic Society at the University of Toronto; Stephen Clancy, the County Sligo Society; Steve Whelam of the United Irish Society of Canada.

The Ireland Fund of Canada, with its themes of Peace, Culture and Charity, perhaps best symbolizes all that is good about the Irish. This is a wonderful charitable organization. Their work gives me hope for the future of Ireland, north and south.

On March 17 of this year, I was pleased to make a presentation on behalf of our Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation, the Honourable Isabel Bassett, to the Irish Person of the Year , Ms Peggy Delaney, a delightful person. Ms Delaney is a breath of spring and a wonderful lady. The spirit of that day was magical, and the St Patrick's Day parade was beautiful. What a great day to celebrate Irish Heritage Day. Everyone was Irish for a day.

Today, I believe, there are over 70 million Irish around the world, famous people like Timothy Eaton; Sid Ryan of CUPE; Darcy McKeough; the Irish-born Lieutenant Governor of Ontario, Hilary Weston, the first Irish-born Lieutenant Governor.

There are many decisions going on in Ireland today. On May 22, there will be a referendum on Ireland, north and south, with respect to the Good Friday agreement. I wish them luck in their discussions.

It would be a mistake if we did not recognize that a country that has struggled for years must be recognized and its traditions celebrated. Perhaps it is our differences that make us great.

As a Canadian of Irish descent, it is my duty, privilege and pleasure to present this bill to the House today.

Mr Bartolucci: The top of the morning to you, Speaker, and the best of the rest of the day to you all. You might wonder, what is an Italian doing standing up with an Irish brogue? Let me tell you that it's been said that imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Today we want to ensure that we flatter the Irish, not only in Ontario and in Canada but in the entire world.

Why would I want to be flattering the Irish? Let me give you a little bit of history. About 30 years ago, I met this young colleen by the name of Maureen. Now, Maureen is the eldest child of Van and Teresa. Teresa's maiden name was Mary Teresa Reilly. She was from Swinford in county Mayo in Ireland. I might suggest to you that Maureen and Van and Teresa exude the Irish traditions that we spoke about in the House earlier and that we've lived for years and years and years.

Van and Teresa had a big family. There's Maureen and Lorraine; there's Jim and Carolyn; there's John, Michael and Barbie, all of whom are married and all of whom have either sons or daughters. This family, you can rest assured, whenever they gather at Teresa's house, I might suggest to you that the Clancy Brothers and the Irish music is playing well into the wee hours of the morning.

My father-in-law, Van, who is no longer with us but never forgotten, played the spoons - my God, he played the spoons. He loved playing the spoons. He tried to teach me how to play the spoons. Although I may be a good teacher, I was a lousy student. I continue to try and I only wish Van was here to help me. But I believe that my in-laws are the perfect example of what the Irish are. They're loving, they're caring, they're kind, they're compassionate, with a love of life and a love of laughter, and it is deeply rooted in faith and conviction.

The Sudbury Irish Heritage Club is much like my family in Sault Ste Marie. It was founded in 1959. It has a membership of approximately 300 and growing. I might suggest to you that they were instrumental in banding together and creating the Isles of Innisfree co-op housing project which is in Corsi Park off Copper Street. They're very, very active in our community and they ensure that the Irish traditions, the traditions that all of us are so proud of, are maintained and enhanced. In fact, you're invited on May 30 to the Isles of Innisfree in Sudbury for what's known as the Spudfest.

Might I tell you it's a time of mingling and a time of enjoyment and a time of merriment. And, yes, there is music and there's song and there may be the odd beverage included.

The week containing March 17 in Sudbury is a very, very important week. It's declared Irish Week in Sudbury and there are all kinds of activities which enliven, enrich and remind us of the importance of the Irish to our communities, to our province, to our country and to our world.

Might I suggest to you you're welcome to come to Sudbury any time during the week and hear what I would suggest are the two best Irish groups that I've ever heard, those being Patti's Patriots and the Friends of Erin. You can hear them at the Cambrian Foundation, you can hear them at the Ramada Inn, you can hear them at Grumblers, if you want, or they provide free concerts for people at the City Centre, the new Sudbury shopping centre. In fact, they want to share their music, so I invite you to come to Sudbury.

More importantly, I invite you to support this bill because this bill indeed enhances the appreciation we all have of the Irish culture, we all should have on an ongoing basis. I'm reminded of the beautiful Irish blessing that I'm sure every Irishman in the world has for everyone else, including the members on the government side and on this side of the House, when they say, "May you live as long as you want and never want for as long as you live."

Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): In addressing this subject this morning, I want to begin by saying I can't imagine, although I'm sure there are people out there, who could be any more proud of their heritage than I am. I'm an Irish immigrant to Canada, came to a place called Wawa in 1960 with my mother and father, five sisters and a brother. I remember it, but not so well as probably my mother. We arrived in Sault Ste Marie in the middle of the night in January - snow, cold - got up in the morning and caught the train through the Agawa Canyon up to a place called Hawk Junction and over to Wawa.

We kids thought that we had died and gone to Disney World. I'm sure my mother had a different view of the whole situation, perhaps thought we were in Siberia, but nevertheless there we were.

In reflecting on my heritage and on my life and the fortunes that I have been gifted with, I think there are probably two things that a father, a mother or a set of parents can give to their children, and I have four who will be second-generation Irish in this wonderful country of Canada. Those two things are a sense of their roots - where they come from, the traditions in their family - and wings, an interest in the world, an excitement about life, some basic information so that they might discover from their roots how it is that they might participate in creating a world that is better and more fair and just than the one that we've turned over to them.

It's in that light this morning that I want to reflect for just a moment on the experience of the Irish in Canada and even before they came to Canada, back in the time when in fact most of the immigration happened. That was as a result of the Irish potato famine that I spoke of here only a few nights ago to share with the people who watch this channel and to share with the people in this House some of the difficulties that the people of that day experienced, why they experienced it and how some of it is so similar to what we're experiencing today in this great province.

Before I do that, though, I just want to share with you a quote from a little book that I quoted the other night as well, it's called Famine Diary: Journey to a New World by a fellow by the name of Gerald Keegan. In the foreword to the book by Don Mullan, the Peruvian theologian, Gustavo Gutierrez says:

Our view of the past must not be impelled by nostalgia but by hope. It is not a fixation on the painful and traumatic events of the past but rather a concern about contemporary poverty and a conviction that only a people which has retained its memory can change its situation and build a better world.

That's why I suggest to you that the experience of the Irish in this country, which was such a difficult experience - and if you talk to anybody, particularly in this great city of Toronto, who remembers, and I know there are events that are celebrated each year in Toronto that recall some of the experience of the early Irish - it was a very difficult time and it was not in any way an easy life they lived in arriving in this new world; and that in remembering that struggle and remembering the coming together of people around particular issues and the sickness and the death that took place, we might not repeat that page of our history and we might not, now that new immigrants come to this country from other places, impose on them the same hardship, the same troubles that were imposed on the early Irish immigrants when they came to this country; and that to understand that anything we do to people in need in our province today out there by way of cuts to their source of income would be the kind of thing that would have been done back then to the Irish because they were the immigrants, they were the poor, they were those who were at the door of the establishment asking for work, asking for opportunity, asking for a way to provide for their families, themselves and their neighbours.

It behooves us to remember that, but not to get stuck in it, not to get so preoccupied with the difficulties and the hardship and the deaths that occurred that we get frozen in time so that we're not able to rise above and respond to the call of people like Gutierrez when he says that hope must be the overarching, the overriding sentiment with which we view this.

I think it's important today that all of us who have Irish ancestry, all of us who have ancestry of various cultural backgrounds in this country, recognize that, remember that and sometimes actually bring it to the fore in a way that causes us to celebrate, and to tell stories that perhaps sometimes aren't quite only the truth is valuable to the culture that we now develop for our own children and for Ontario and for Canada.

My own experience of coming to Canada and arriving in Wawa was actually quite a wonderful experience. We were told in Ireland before we came to Canada, in all the stories and the songs that were written, that in North America and particularly - New York was the place that most people wanted to go, but some of us ended up in Canada because that's where our relatives ended up and we followed suit. Coming to Canada, I have to tell you, was probably the best decision my father could have made for the lives of me and my siblings and for my children.

Arriving in Wawa, we did in fact find a new world, a world where Irish, both Protestant and Catholic, got together, partied, celebrated and supported each other in the very difficult task of dealing with the challenges that are presented to anybody who lives in a small northern Ontario community, particularly back in the 1960s when we didn't have many of the conveniences of today to cause us to become insular and independent and individualistic.

In that little town called Wawa, we had a community of international root and history. I remember my father going to work at the plant and talking about the fellow he met from Germany and the Ukrainian and the French Canadian, and the Polish hall that was established in that community where we celebrated most of the weddings and New Year's Eve dances, where we, as young people, went to school with the children of those immigrants and, through the celebration of the various feast days of the different cultures and nationalities, came to understand and respect and appreciate and in some way grow out of that experience.

That made us, I suppose, the kind of Canadians who will be able to best deal with some of the diversity that we find in our country today that causes so many of us out there such pain, as we try to come to terms with the questions of what does it mean to be Canadian and how do you define the Canadian experience and what is the Canadian experience and how can we take the best of what is Canada.

I suggested a few minutes ago the story of the Irish coming to Canada, particularly in such large numbers, around the time of the great Irish famine. It certainly wasn't easy, because there were so many of us who came, and we were so needy, so poor. There was, because of the long trip across the ocean, so much disease among us that the then inhabitants of Canada were very afraid, were very frightened, and did not open their doors readily to this new wave of immigrant people. In spite of that, we stayed and we survived and we thrived.

I believe we are now a very important and positive part of that fabric that is Ontario today, that is Canada today, that the rest of the world looks at and envies and wishes they could emulate or duplicate in some significant and concrete and real way.

To spend some time today in this House to reflect for a moment on the contribution, the history of the Irish people to this great country of ours, I think is really important and really timely. On this occasion I thank the member for Durham East, Mr O'Toole. He and I don't always see eye to eye on everything, but this morning we certainly agree on this: that we should together, as a House elected by the people of Ontario, recognize the valuable contribution of a particular portion as it blends into the mix of all the other very important and valuable groups of people who make up the communities and the cities and the towns and the province that we live in.

In wrapping up, as I'm wont to do here from time to time - because I do read a bit in my role as a member in this House so that I might understand more fully how I might participate in a way that's helpful and positive, and challenge this place sometimes to remember where it is that we come from, so that we don't repeat it in a negative way now or in the future, but that in learning from it we might create that better world that the theologian Gutierrez talked about in my opening quote. In this little book it goes on to say:

"It would not be proper to end this story without at least a brief reference to the survivors of famine, pestilence and the hardships of travel. In their search for ways and means of earning a living, they got no help of any kind from the government. In fact, they were completely rejected by the predominantly British population of Upper Canada. Being Irish and being poor they were not wanted. It was almost impossible to get a bit of land fit for cultivation.

All the choice lands had already been given to the United Empire Loyalists or selectively distributed by land agents to people they considered loyal to the crown. The only alternative was to clear patches of land in the dense forests or else take on slave labour on the railroads, in the mines or in the forests. But they were used to hardship and they succeeded in earning a living while making substantial contributions to the development of Canada.

A remarkable number of them and their descendants rose to positions of distinction in church and state and in commerce and industry." Today, we hail and recognize and thank them for that.

Mr Morley Kells (Etobicoke-Lakeshore): It's my pleasure to rise to speak on the private member's bill which will proclaim March 17 annually as Irish Heritage Day. My colleagues and I are going to split the time we have available.

Today it is my intention, along with my colleagues, to extol the family values that the people of Irish descent originally brought to Ontario when it was still constituted as Upper Canada.

In the process of doing research in this regard, I located in my library the two volumes of The Untold Story: The Irish in Canada, which is a compilation of a number of articles and essays dealing with the arrival of the Irish on our shores long before Confederation in 1867. But before I quote directly from these sources, I would like to provide a few personal anecdotes about my own Irish heritage.

As a youngster growing up in the 1940s in Toronto I chummed with the Murphys in my neighbourhood. Mr Murphy was a tailor who worked on the dining room table in his home with his legs crossed all day long cutting and sewing. He said to me, "Your last name is Kells and you must be from Ballymena." Not realizing what he was talking about, I answered that no, I was from the village of Waverley, which is located close to Midland on Georgian Bay.

Mr Murphy went on to explain about the possibility and geographical location of my Irish roots, and so at the age of 10 I learned that I was not only a Canadian but a Canadian with ancestors from across the sea. From that point on I began to take a greater interest in things Irish and to ask questions of my parents about my ancestry.

I suspect my little story has parallels with many members of this Legislature. With this in mind, I found out that my mother's maiden name is McWatters and that her mother was a Brown and they both considered themselves to be of Irish extraction. Surprisingly enough, after many inquiries I was able to ascertain that nobody knew exactly where they were from in Ireland and when and why their ancestors travelled to Canada to start a new life.

As I grew older, I began to research and eventually wrote a booklet on the McWatters family for use at a family reunion in 1976. The family Bibles revealed that on my mother's side my great-grandfather, Samuel Brown, was born in the Port Hope area in 1841 and that he homesteaded in Tay township near Midland. Other Bibles inform me that my other great-grandfather, William Albert McWatters, was born in Cartwright, Ontario, in 1869 and that he moved to Medonte township, adjacent to Tay, where my grandmother and grandfather met and were married in 1893.

Consulting my book on the Irish in Canada, it indicates that between 1825 and 1845 the Irish constituted 60% of all arrivals. At the time of Confederation, Canadians of Irish origin were the second-largest group after French Canadians in the country.

Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't the potato famines that drove the Irish in great numbers to Canada. Although the maps show that most Irish immigration took place before the potato famine, the Irish immigration was certainly bolstered by the aforementioned potato crop failures in the 1840s.

One of the articles informs us:

"For a country of its size and population, Ireland has indeed had a remarkable influence. Its success in restoring the light of Christianity and classical learning after the Dark Ages is well known. Its contribution through its many religious orders to the education of millions of children in Africa, Asia, Australasia, and the Americas is second to none."

In the epilogue to the introduction, the editor, Robert O'Driscoll, refers to a conversation that he had with a bus driver in rural Ontario, who advised him that if you're interested in the Irish of Ontario you should go over to Phelpston, which is a typical Irish village. The bus driver said, "They'd rather fight than eat."

The bus driver was born in Elmvale, which is five miles from Phelpston, and his reference to the Irish Catholics of that village is typical of the attitudes that once prevailed in that area. I know this well, for indeed almost 100% of my relatives from my mother and father's time came from this region with its towns and villages. Fortunately, time has ameliorated the prejudices that sprang from the ages-old conflicts in the mother isle.

I could say a great deal more about the combative relationship between the twin religious cultures, but this is not the purpose of this bill. The most important thing is that early in the 20th century Canadians learned quickly that peaceful cohabitation was much preferable to any kind of antagonism. Indeed, as this century comes to an end, the old irritations have ceased to exist here once and for all.

I think my time is going on me, so I will cut down a bit and say that there is something whimsical about being of Irish descent. Many third- and fourth-generation Canadians like myself have journeyed to Ireland to look for the specifics that support the inner feelings of intimacy we harbour for the soil where our forefathers laboured, raised their families and watched as their children migrated to the new land across the sea.

Upon reflection, I find that being Irish is not about nationalism, nor about historical antagonisms, but rather it is about feeling - a feeling of belonging, of relating to people and a place. Personally, a deep quiet feeling of satisfaction overwhelms me when I think of this, because I know I have roots beyond these shores. It's because of this that I am so pleased to be able to speak in support of an Irish Heritage Day and ask that you vote to make this a reality.

In a society that is becoming more broadly diverse each and every year, it is propitious that we stop once a year to add another dimension to St Patrick's Day, that of an unspoken, continual annual tribute to that ancient race of people known as the Irish. God bless them all.

Mr Alex Cullen (Ottawa West): It's with great pleasure that I rise to join the debate on this bill declaring March 17 as Irish Heritage Day, known to the rest of us, of course, as St Paddy's Day, a day on which everyone, certainly in the community I live in, becomes Irish for a day. Such is the generosity of the people.

My name is Cullen. It's a contraction of Cu'ullen. It's a very Irish name. It means "of Ulster." Just to lend some perspective to the heritage we're talking about, the first Cullen was the bastard son of the high king of Ulster. He was known as the Hound of Ulster and he grew up to be a fine Irish hero and a giant.

Such was his fame that at one time when his enemies attacked him, he put his back to a tree and for three days and three nights he fought off his enemies. The dead mounded around him and such was the carnage that was going on around him that they withdrew. When they withdrew, for three days and three nights they stood there watching this giant, and it wasn't until a raven landed on his head and pecked out his eye that they realized they'd been fighting each other, killing each other all this time.

I'm just saying this because it shows some of the colour of the heritage of Ireland. It is not always leprechauns and wee folk. It is a history that goes back into pre-Roman times, and I'm pleased to say that my family forms part of that history.

Of course, Ulster forms part of the four kingdoms of Ireland: Ulster, Leinster, Munster and Connaught. I have to tell you again that members of this House will recognize the red hand of Ulster. It so happens that back in those days the tribes of Ulster would go off to one of the western isles to elect the high king of Ulster. Politics being what it is, members of this House will appreciate that from time to time they would not be able to make a decision between two very strong candidates. The legend has it that it was resolved. The Irish always love a good competition.

They suggested to the two claimants for the high kingship that the first one to reach the shores of Ulster and touch the shores of Ulster would become the high king of Ulster.

The race was set and the two boats went off, the tribe of one claimant and the tribe of the other claimant straining to get back to the shores of Ulster. One ship pulled a little farther ahead. The chieftain in the other boat took out his sword, cut off his hand and threw it across. His hand touched Ulster first and he became the high king - and not a word of a lie.

This all goes to show the kind of legends that grew out of Ulster, the giants that strode the land, Finn McCool and others that formed the very colourful heritage that is in Ireland and that many of its immigrants have brought to our land and to many others.

I mentioned that my family name is Cullen. My father came to this country following the war. His name was Henry Patrick Joseph Francis Conluth Cornelius Cullen, a fine Irish name. He came from a family that had been very active in the struggle for the independence of Ireland. I wear my grandfather's ring. It's green. He participated in that struggle. As a matter of fact, when he died in Ireland the president of the republic, Eamon de Valera, came to his funeral.

I have many cousins in Ireland. I have been to Ireland myself. I'm very pleased to have met my cousins, Fidelma, Fionnuala, Porric; lovely, wonderful people. I've travelled in Ireland, and I have to tell you they are very friendly people, very pleased to know that I came from Canada. Very often I would stop in the village and someone would come up to me and say, "Well, where are you from?" I would say, "I'm from Canada." "Oh, Canada, do you know me cousin in Halifax?" Unfortunately in Ireland they don't realize the tremendous size of this country. I have yet to be to Halifax, and they're quite surprised. Everyone in Ireland knows everyone else.

One of the interesting things in my life, in travelling through Ireland, is recognizing the vast history of it. I'm very pleased to say that in Ottawa we share that history as well. Of course, Ottawa was made famous not only by being the nation's capital, but also because of the canal that was built so long ago, yes, by Colonel By, but the trenches were all dug by Irish navvies who came to this country and helped build the canals, the railways, literally helped build this country.

I could go on for a long time about the contribution the Irish people have made to our country. I will save that for other times because I know many other members here want to contribute to this debate.

Mr R. Gary Stewart (Peterborough): I congratulate my colleague the member for Durham East in bringing forth this private member's bill and for his foresight in realizing that probably more than half of this Legislature is made up of people whose heritage dates back to Irish descendants. If they don't claim Irish heritage, then probably they were married to someone who has that background, or they just want to be Irish. Not only in this House do we have the O'Tooles, the McGuintys and the Sheehans, but we also have the O'Harrises and McEves.

The idea of an Irish Heritage Day is a wonderful idea and very special to me because of my family heritage. The name Stewart is usually associated with Scottish heritage. In my particular instance, my heritage can be traced back to 1608, when under James I of England, William Stewart was asked to take the task of settling Presbyterians in Ulster, Ireland.

Now, it happens that 200 years later, in 1828, another William Stewart of county Monaghan, Ireland, became the first Stewart ancestor to settle at Stewart Hall in Peterborough, Ontario. William, who was 47, arrived with his wife and seven children. The Stewart family chose to settle first in Cavan township and one year later moved across the Otonabee River and settled in Peterborough county. His younger brother, Alexander, accompanied William's family, and they were later followed by another brother, Richard, in 1829 with his wife and child. It is to this brother Richard that I am directly related.

Three brothers and several sisters remained in Ireland near the village of Drum, Cootehill, county Monaghan. As well, some of the children chose to come to Canada at a later date.

The south end of Otonabee township is a peninsula of land enclosed on three sides by the Otonabee River, which flows towards Rice Lake. In the centre of this peninsula is a high ridge of fertile land, which is where my family of Presbyterian Irish heritage settled. My descendants chose to live close to the established Peter Robinson Irish settlement of Peterborough. Land was purchased for $500 for 200 acres, and thus their farm and their home in the new land had begun.

I am the fifth generation of Irish Stewarts to continue to raise family, work and enjoy living in the Peterborough area. My grandchildren are therefore the seventh generation of Stewarts to be raised in Peterborough county. I suggest they might be classed as pure Canadians but with Irish roots.

The original town of Peterborough began when the Honourable Peter Robinson brought 2,000 Irish immigrants to the then Newcastle district in 1825. The original settlement housed the immigrants in rough huts and shelters until they were able to leave for their final destinations in the townships. Of course many of these settlers stayed in the town of Peterborough to establish thriving businesses such as farriers, dry goods and indeed pubs.

The townships of Ennismore and Douro in Peterborough county were settled by Irish Catholic families in the early 1800s and to this day the surnames of these settlers still make up our communities. So began one of the many Irish settlements throughout southeastern and central Ontario. I'm sure every MPP in this Legislature has similar stories.

Both Irish Protestants and Irish Catholics have shaped the very essence of our province. Those immigrants proved to be hardworking, hard-playing, family-oriented individuals who helped shape our municipalities. They had an unquestionable work ethic. Their motto was, and I quote, "Work hard and be rewarded."

These Irish men and women came to Canada with the hope for a new beginning for their families. They established themselves in this province and became first and foremost Canadians. They accepted our way of life and added a rich culture that lives on through their ancestors. The rich heritage of Irish immigrants, our forefathers, is part of Canada and can easily be lost if we allow it. We should remember the contribution of these people with the proclamation of March 17 as Irish Heritage Day.

I leave you with one thought. As the great Irish philosopher Murphy once said, "If you don't agree with what I am saying, it's just because you aren't listening."

Mr Tony Ruprecht (Parkdale): I'm sure this act proclaiming Irish Heritage Day will have unanimous agreement. How could we not do it? Looking into the eyes of all those Irish members here today, it would be very, very hard to do.

That reminds me of the international song:

When Irish eyes are smiling Sure it's like a morn in spring, In the lilt of Irish laughter You can hear the angels sing. When Irish hearts are happy All the world seems bright and gay, And when Irish eyes are smiling Sure they steal your heart away.

I've heard in these comments today of the great contribution Irish Canadians have made to the development of this country. I'm more familiar with the Toronto community and consequently I've done some research for a book called Toronto's Many Faces. I'd like to give you some background on how the Irish have contributed so much.

"In the foyer of the world-famous Eaton Centre, a bronze statue honours one of Toronto's best-known Irish Canadians. Timothy Eaton was an Irish-born merchant who turned his Toronto dry goods store into Canada's largest privately owned department store," employing more than 9,000 people. "Today, the Timothy Eaton Memorial Church on St Clair Avenue West stands as a reminder of the contributions of the great Irish Torontonian.

"Irish settlers have lived in Canada since the early 17th century. The Irish may have constituted" at that time "as much as 5% of the population of New France, and during the 18th century, the Irish began to settle in the new British colonies. More Irish settlers were among the Loyalists who arrived in Canada following the American Revolution.

"The potato crop failure and famines in Ireland in the 1840s resulted in a large number of settlers arriving in Toronto. Early Irish working-class neighbourhoods along Toronto's waterfront and the Don basin were called Slab Town, Paddy Town and Cork Town. Irish Claretown developed around Bathurst and Queen streets, and by the 1890s the Junction area of West Toronto became home to many Irish." Remember Cabbagetown? That is "reputed to have been named for the Irish working class who planted cabbages in their front yards.

"The first Irish Catholic churches in the city were St Paul's in Cabbagetown, St Michael's Cathedral, St Basil's Church, and the original St Patrick's Church, established in the 1860s. These churches were centres of education and social activities. The pioneer charitable organization was the St Vincent de Paul Society whose members also founded the Toronto Savings Bank and the Catholic Children's Aid Society.

"In the 1850s, St Michael's College, now part of the University of Toronto, became a seminary school under the Basilian Fathers to provide higher education for Irish Catholics. The Christian Brothers established De La Salle as a secondary and commercial school, complementing the schools of the Sisters of Loretto, and of St Joseph. St Michael's Hospital was opened in the late 19th century by the Sisters of St Joseph... followed by the establishment of St Joseph's and Our Lady of Mercy hospitals.

"In the second half of the 19th century, there were a large number of Ulster Protestants living in the city. Lodges of the Orange Order, a predominantly Protestant society, [were] founded in 1795.... The main meeting halls were the Eastern Orange Hall on Queen Street, as well as the Western District Orange Hall on Euclid Avenue. The lodges provided social services, health care and illness and death benefits. The needy received additional aid from the Ladies Loyal True Blues and the Irish Protestant Benevolent Association.

"Irish Torontonians have contributed greatly to the city's development in the political, business and sports sectors. The first...mayor, W.H. Boulton, took office in 1845 and, during the rest of the century, 20 of Toronto's 23 mayors...." were Irish. "Among Toronto's most popular sports figures were the late King Clancy and former Canadian boxing champion and Olympic silver medallist Shawn O'Sullivan."

Today in Metro Toronto, we have some 550,000 people of Irish ancestry. Of course, we know the community has many cultural, charitable, social and sporting organizations, many of Gaelic names, and there are many, many more pages of contributions Irish-Canadians have made.

I am very happy today not only to support this bill but to have stood in this House and listened to and heard many of the members and their personal stories, which were very heart-rending. I am delighted to support this bill and I know my party will do it. I'm very happy that it will receive unanimous agreement today. For the Irish today I would only hope -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you. Further debate?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Minister of Labour, Solicitor General and Minister of Correctional Services): As a member of this Legislature I am pleased to support the bill brought forward by my friend and colleague the honourable member for Durham East, Mr O'Toole, designating March 17 as Irish Heritage Day in Ontario.

There is a great history of the Irish in Canada, as has been recounted here. There was a generation of Irish who came to this country - there's a wonderful book called Flight from Famine, The Coming of the Irish to Canada, by Donald MacKay, in which he documents:

"About a million Irish left for Canada in the span of one generation. Thousands died of typhus or cholera at sea or in the notorious quarantine stations at Grosse Isle, Quebec and Saint John, New Brunswick, where heroic doctors and priests tried to ease their suffering, sometimes at the cost of their own lives."

My own family arrived in Saint John, New Brunswick, in the 1830s, starting off with the preferred name at the time, James, which continues to the present day - James Flaherty from Ireland and Mary Murphy from Ireland. On the other side, James Harquail, again a preferred name, and Mary Carroll, who came from Cork in 1845.

That followed through to the present generation, through New Brunswick and Lower Canada and to what is now Upper Canada, so that today there are many of us in Canada and in the United States by the Flaherty family name, including my own siblings, David Harris, Edwin Harquail, Ann Isabel, Gerald Francis, Terrence Patrick, Norah Clare and Mary Stella, all of us the progeny of Edwin Benedict Flaherty, born in Vancouver, British Columbia, and Mary Monica Harquail, born in Campbellton, New Brunswick. All of that by way of history.

But it goes back much farther than that. There's a wonderful book written several centuries ago by Roderic O'Flaherty, published in 1684, which is a history of the west of Connaught. One can find that in a lovely bookstore in the city of Galway called Kenny's, where one can review the book and obtain a copy of it. It is is a wonderful history of the west of Ireland, which is where the Flaherty family is from.

As you come out of the bookstore - I've researched this on location - if you go just a tad south and a little west, there is another hospitable place called A Bunch of Grapes. You can visit that also, about 6 in the evening, with the Kenny brothers. They will be happy to explain most of what's in this book to you directly and personally. Then if you want an excursion, you can travel north from the city of Galway into the county of Galway and visit the Flaherty family castle, which is near Ballynahinch.

The Flaherty family continues to get together. That happens each year somewhere in North America. I'm very pleased that my siblings and our mother will get together this year in the province of Ontario to visit the beautiful Thousand Islands in July as we continue the wonderful history of the Irish in Canada.

Mr Ed Doyle (Wentworth East): I only have a few seconds. I just want to show the members today an Irish newspaper printed on fine Irish linen which contains a very brief Irish blessing. I will conclude my remarks by simply reading to you some of the words on here:

"May the wind always be at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face and the rains falls soft upon your fields. And until we meet again, may God hold you in the palm of his hand."

Mr Bernard Grandmaître (Ottawa East): On a point of privilege, Mr Speaker: What a coincidence, and maybe a paradox, that Mr O'Toole's bill is numbered Bill 8, because back in 1986, another Bill 8 was approved unanimously by this House. That was the French Language Services Act. Since then my motto has been, "Live and let live in harmony."

The Speaker: You better knock all this lovin' off. This is making me sick.

Mr O'Toole: I'd like to thank the many members for their wonderful, noble comments with respect to Bill 8, and of course their endorsement of the bill.

I would also like to thank the O'Toole family - that's my own family on all sides - as well as Alex Roman, the researcher who did a considerable amount of work, and Mr and Mrs O'Neil, who took time out of their busy day and busy life to come and enjoy the speeches from the many members.

All cultures can document their struggle in their journey to the place they are now. It's not unique to the Irish, it's not unique to any culture, but it's important to remember where you're from. As we always say, if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it.

The Irish themselves, north and south, will decide on May 22 where they go from here on their journey. It's important that they look back to the support of all Irishmen. Indeed, all countries are struggling with their identity, and at this time of year we should put our hearts together and go forward in a positive vein.

In a positive vein, the member for Wentworth North stole my concluding blessing, but I do have the odd blessing as well which I'll share with the members. The Irish are well known for their many little blessings and virtues, some of which have been shared today. Perhaps the members would join me. At the moment I'm waiting for them to join me.

"May your pockets be heavy and your heart be light." Another one we say is, "May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you're dead."

There are many members, and I'd like all members to join me in singing:

When Irish eyes are smiling Sure it's like a morn in spring, In the lilt of Irish laughter You can hear the angels sing. When Irish hearts are happy All the world seems bright and gay, And when Irish eyes are smiling Sure they steal your heart away.

The Speaker: Good timing.

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC AMENDMENT ACT (LICENCE SUSPENSIONS), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT LE CODE DE LA ROUTE (SUSPENSIONS DE PERMIS)

Mr Grimmett moved second reading of the following Bill:

Bill 5,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act with respect to the suspension of drivers' licences / Projet de loi 5, Loi modifiant le Code de la route en ce qui concerne les suspensions de permis de conduire.

Mr Bill Grimmett (Muskoka-Georgian Bay): It's certainly a privilege, and a privilege that's remarkable for an MPP, to have the opportunity to introduce a private member's bill. I feel particularly privileged to have the opportunity to introduce a bill that I feel would have a significant benefit to my riding of Muskoka-Georgian Bay.

Bill 5, unlike the previous bill, is on a little more sober topic, I think, and that is the issue of boating safety in Ontario. Boating safety is a topic of great interest in my riding of Muskoka-Georgian Bay. Muskoka and the Georgian Bay part of my riding are among the most popular boating destinations for tourists in Canada, indeed in North America. In the summer months in Muskoka-Georgian Bay, recreational boating not only is a tremendous source of recreational pleasure for the people who live there year-round, but it's also a significant economic benefit to the area.

People who come to Muskoka-Georgian Bay to participate in recreational boating have a big impact on the economy, and many of us who live there full-time make our living by catering to people who are there because of the lakes and rivers. That tremendous natural bounty of surface water is the reason a lot of people have decided to have a cottage or to spend their weekends in Muskoka-Georgian Bay. For that reason it's important that I, as the representative for that area, with my private member's bill, try as much as possible to promote further recreational activity in Muskoka-Georgian Bay.

I haven't been able to think of a better way to do that than to assure the boating public that in Ontario the waterways are safe to boat on, not only in the daytime but also in the evening and at night.

Just to summarize the contents of the bill, many people in Ontario are unaware that if they're convicted of impaired operation of a boat, they do not have as serious a penalty as if they were being convicted of impaired operation of a car or snowmobile. Currently if you're convicted of impaired operation of a car or snowmobile in Ontario, you face the suspension of your driver's licence. That is a very serious sanction in our society because of the importance a driver's licence has come to take on.

Virtually everyone over the age of 16 in Ontario values their driver's licence and uses it on a regular basis, and it is my feeling that threatening the loss of that privilege has a big impact on attitudes.

In the time that I have been a driver of a car, attitudes about drinking and driving have changed significantly, and I think that is directly tied to the penalties in the law. I don't think that attitudes on drinking and driving have changed simply because people think it's the wrong thing to do; I think it's directly related to the fact that they will lose their driver's licence if they're caught and convicted of impaired operation of a car or of a snowmobile.

This bill would bring in the same penalties for a person convicted of operating a vessel while impaired as currently apply to persons convicted of operating a car or a snowmobile. It would also allow the police to suspend the driver's licence of a person who is charged with impaired operation of a vessel immediately upon the charge being laid, and it would allow the police to suspend that person's driver's licence if they blew a warning on a roadside breathalyser device.

Both sanctions are very important. I know from talking to the police, they feel that the 12-hour suspension may be even more important than the suspension of the driver's licence on conviction, because in a lot of cases I think the public feels that if a person is blowing a warning on the roadside breathalyser, they should not be allowed to leave the scene and get in a car and drive. I think the police obviously feel the same way and would like to suspend that person's privilege of driving a vehicle for a 12-hour period. That would ensure that the person would get home safely without endangering the rest of the public on the highway.

Currently, in speaking with police marine operators, I think there is an improving climate in Ontario as far as the tools the police have to deal with boating infractions and bad boating habits. The Ontario Community Council on Impaired Driving, an umbrella body that brings together all the various groups in this province that are against impaired operation of a variety of vehicles, had their launch this week because we have the holiday weekend coming up beginning tomorrow. They had their launch of the season and their campaign against impaired driving.

At that launch, there were marine police officers from several different forces in Ontario. They all feel that the new federal-provincial partnership that allows marine police to lay marine charges under the Provincial Offences Act has helped them a great deal.

I have received some statistics from the Ontario Provincial Police on their waterways policing in the past two years. I think the public would be encouraged to know that contrary to some suggestions that there is less presence by the police on the waterways, in fact the presence of the police has increased. In 1996, the OPP records show that 35,297 hours were expended by the Ontario Provincial Police on marine patrol. In 1997, there was a significant increase of over 3,000 more hours as they expended 38,897 hours on marine patrol by the OPP in 1997. That's a significant increase.

There is also a relative increase in the number of boating charges laid by the OPP. In 1996, 2,292 boating charges were laid; in 1997, a significant increase to 2,442 boating charges. That is a reflection of the police operating with better tools. From talking to the police about Bill 5, I'm going to take a risk here and suggest that every police officer in Ontario thinks this bill is a very good idea. It will give them the kinds of tools they need when they deal with an impaired or a suspected impaired operator of a vessel on the water.

They want to make sure they can suspend their licence for 12 hours so there's no risk of them being out on the highway during the 12-hour period following the time of the arrest. They also want to make sure they have a strong deterrent out there that people will consider before they drink and operate their vessel.

I've received a lot of supportive mail and faxes. Perhaps when I summarize I'll note who those supporters are. I also received a couple of faxes just this morning. One of them is from the Canadian Safe Boating Council. I'll just read it into the record; it's not very long:

"The Canadian Safe Boating Council represents over 60 national and regional organizations working for better boating safety. We have supported many initiatives aimed at meeting our goals, including significant changes to legislation and regulation.

"Naturally, as a safe boating council, we are interested in reducing the number of deaths attributed to boating each year. A significant portion of these deaths include alcohol consumption as a contributing factor.

"Our organization welcomes your proposal to link suspension of the provincial automobile driver's licence to the federal Criminal Code sanctions already in place.

"The council feels that a strong message delivered to boaters across Canada, and especially in Ontario, which accounts for about half of all recreational boating in Canada, will reduce the number of boating fatalities significantly. Thank you for your work in delivering this message."

Those are the remarks I'd like to make for now. I'm interested in hearing my colleagues' remarks.

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): I appreciate the opportunity to spend a few moments discussing Bill 5. I commend the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay for bringing it forward. I will certainly be supporting it. Weather records indicate that Sudbury is one of the sunniest areas in Ontario. It has a recorded higher annual average sunshine per hour than London, Hamilton, Sault Ste Marie and North Bay, so obviously the people in Sudbury are attuned to going outside and enjoying the great outdoors. The regional municipality within its boundaries has in excess of 90 named lakes.

It may surprise the members of the House, but within the city of Sudbury itself there are 30 named lakes - that's 30 within the boundaries of the city of Sudbury.

Sudbury's Ramsey Lake, which is the most populated lake in the area, has won the 1992 International Excellence on the Waterfront award for any region or any city. It is the largest city-contained lake in North America, featuring both leisure living and all forms of water activity and recreation. Within the heart of the city of Sudbury is Ramsey Lake, and it is only 1,500 metres from a very vibrant civic square or the seat of local government.

Those are some of the reasons I'm going to be supporting this legislation, because the people in Sudbury, the city and the region, believe that those who operate vessels or boats on the waterways of Ontario should operate them in a very mature, responsible manner. I'm suggesting that if you're operating a vessel when you're impaired, that's not being responsible and it's not being very mature.

I should let the House know that the Sudbury Regional Police Service is very active on the lake within the regional municipality of Sudbury and is supportive of this bill, because it will allow every police officer to thoroughly enforce the proper operation of vessels. The police forces in Sudbury, both the regional police force and the OPP, are on our lakes and they do manage them very effectively. We don't have a major problem with regard to safety, but this bill will reinforce their presence and will afford them the opportunity to do meaningful enforcement and, if charges are necessary, make meaningful charges.

I would suggest to all the members of the House that we who take

part in recreation in or on the water must be protected. Bill 5 offers those of us who may be swimming, those of us who may be water-skiing, those of us who may be doing other forms such as fishing within the lakes and rivers in Ontario, the opportunity for maximum safety. How can that be wrong?

I suggest to you that with the inclusion of Sea-Doos on the waterways of Ontario we have very unique problems being posed to us. Bill 5 will ensure that those individuals who are operating Sea-Doos do so in a very responsible and professional manner.

In summation, I would suggest that this bill is timely; I would suggest that this bill is necessary; I would suggest that this bill will be well received within the communities of Ontario that have recreation on or in our waterways; and I would suggest that this bill should become law as quickly as possible, to ensure the maximum safety on our waterways within this province. I thank the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay for bringing this bill forward.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Riverdale): I rise in support of Bill 5. I congratulate Mr Grimmett for bringing it forward today.

I am a city dweller. Everybody here knows that I don't use motorized boats, but I do like to go on canoe trips and have for a number of years been portaging those big canoes over my head for kilometres and kilometres -

Mr Gilles Bisson (Cochrane South): Lots of strength.

Ms Churley: Yes, I may look small - with a great backpack on and going as deeply into the lakes and as far up north as I can get to get away from people.

Mr Gary Fox (Prince Edward-Lennox-South Hastings): To get away from constituents.

Ms Churley: That's one of the advantages, especially in this profession. Every now and then, when you're on holiday, the main thing you want to do is, for a little while, just get away from your good friends in the Legislature. You certainly wouldn't want to run into any of them way up north, would you, at those times?

But I'm finding now that it's getting harder and harder to get away from motorized boats. Certainly we're all aware that there have been deaths in Ontario, in Quebec and in other places, partly as a result of Sea-Doos. I realize that they are of major concern and you're not addressing those specifically today, but hopefully this will help that situation to some extent.

I applaud the fact that you're bringing this bill forward and say that it's a long time coming. It's something that really should have been done a long time ago.

I'm sure, Mr Grimmett, that in your riding this is an issue of great concern because you come from the Muskoka area where there are a lot of boaters. I know a lot of people from the city go to Muskoka and other areas and get out in their boats. Most people, like in every situation, do not break the law and drive their boats safely. But as in every situation there are always those who don't and certainly those are the people whom this bill tries to capture.

When they go out on their Sea-Doos or other motorized boats, if they do drink, if they're driving dangerously, they endanger the life of myself out there in a canoe or out swimming. In some locations now in Ontario it is terrifying to be out in a canoe or to be swimming in the lake when there are a lot of motorized boats around. You just don't know who's being responsible and who isn't. Some of these, particularly the Sea-Doos, go so fast and come at you so quickly that it can be very frightening. I don't know if people here in this House have experienced that, been out in a canoe and been surrounded by a lot of these motorized boats. It is quite frightening.

Perhaps the member can respond to one of the concerns. I'd like to have more information on the policing, especially in his area and other areas. A bill is only as good as the enforcement around it. As we know, if we have strong regulations and we have strong laws in place, they're no good, they mean nothing unless the government of the day commits the enforcement, the policing that's necessary to catch the people. I would say to you that all of those people who go out in their boats and drive carefully and are responsible would applaud this move as well.

I think, however, that we must have assurances that it's going to mean something, that it isn't just a piece of paper and that once a law is passed and the enforcement isn't there, people realize it very quickly and the law therefore is there to be broken.

I very much support the private member's bill that's before us today. Even though it's private members' hour, I believe I can speak on behalf of all of my caucus on this. We're very happy that it's here before us today. I hope and believe everybody in the House will support this.

When Mr Grimmett responds later on, perhaps he can talk a little bit about the enforcement and assure us, and I hope that his government will agree as well, that we can pass this bill without delay. I'm sure you will have the support of this caucus to move forward and that you will have the support of your government to put the necessary enforcement in place so that we know that our waters will be safe as a result of this bill.

I would say to Mr Grimmett, if that's the case, he can indeed be very proud. If he is able to get this bill passed through the House and it actually is enforced, I believe lives could be saved as a result. Again, I congratulate the member for bringing this forward and assure him that he has my full support.

Mr Allan K. McLean (Simcoe East): This morning I stand in this Legislature in support of the efforts of my colleague the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay to bring safety to Ontario's waterways. I realize Bill Grimmett, the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay, brought this same bill forward last year, but if something is worth saying, it's worth saying twice. This bill is certainly worth repeating in this Legislature.

Last month the federal government finally announced a government licensing program, but to my disappointment, the program will not come into effect until January 1, 1999, not in time for this boating season.

This weekend we will once again be joining our constituents to kick off the summer season in Ontario. As we travel to our favourite body of water to play and enjoy our outdoor programs, we must ever be conscious of the inexperienced, careless and sometimes intoxicated watercraft operators. Alcohol consumption is not tolerated on our highways and it should not be tolerated on our waterways either.

This bill before us today, if passed, would require the suspension of a driver's licence of individuals convicted of the impaired operation of a watercraft vessel. It would give our enforcement officers the ability to suspend a boater's automobile licence for a 12-hour period upon a charge being laid. We know that several other Canadian provinces have enacted this legislation, as well as many American states.

This legislation is being introduced to save lives and is supported by our own Ontario Provincial Police. These front-line people see what is happening and must deal with the families of victims of someone's carelessness.

Ministry of Transportation statistics show that on average 60 people die every year in boating accidents in Ontario. More than 40% of recreational boating fatalities in Canada are alcohol-related. Statistics show that most boaters consume alcohol always or sometimes when boating. Despite the fact that the Criminal Code of Canada states, "It is an offence for persons to operate a vessel when their ability to do so is impaired by alcohol," some 66% of boaters do consume alcohol while boating.

Our OPP officers must deal with the reality of these sad statistics on the frightening scene. This is not the level at which you and I deal with boating accidents. We deal with them from the protected distance of our television set, radio news or our daily newspaper, and from this distance we don't begin to understand the whole story, the story of a family devastated by the loss of a loved one.

Many organizations work each summer to heighten awareness of boating safety and responsible alcohol use. Accidents can be prevented through safety training and better knowledge of the rules of the waterway.

I believe the penalty should fit the crime. It is a crime to drink and drive a boat or a personal watercraft and the penalty should be severe. If someone is charged with being impaired while driving their boat or personal watercraft, that same person is also impaired and unfit and unable to drive their automobile. I believe taking away their driver's licence is a good deterrent and it will protect others on our waterways and highways.

Why is it that people who don't dream of driving their cars after drinking often don't show the same good sense when it comes to boating and alcohol? We know it is every bit as hazardous and illegal to mix alcohol and boating as it is to drink and drive a car on our busy highways.

We know alcohol affects an individual's balance, which is worsened by the fact that a boat is a moving platform. We know alcohol affects an individual's judgement, which can create a risky situation if you're driving a fast vehicle through treacherous waterways. We also know alcohol affects an individual's reaction time, which can be crucial when operating a watercraft in a populated boating area.

We know it makes good sense to support this bill. I encourage all of us in the Legislature to save lives and support this bill of the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay, Mr Bill Grimmett.

Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Prescott and Russell): I'm delighted to speak on this bill today. I'm delighted because it would add security to the boaters, the fishermen and the people on the beaches in Ontario especially.

There have been many serious accidents on the Ottawa River in the last 10 years, accidents that have left seriously injured people. Some will be crippled for the rest of their lives. The Ottawa River, according to Mayor Lacroix of Gatineau, has over 10,000 registered boats from Parliament Hill to the Carillon Dam. This area was cleaned up in 1989. Ever since then we have visitors from all over the world, and especially from North America, who are using this waterway.

The Ottawa River is the most important river in Canada. It has 1,271 kilometres. It was the only means of transportation at one time, especially in the year 1610 when Étienne Brûlé used it for the first time. As I said, the Ottawa River is one reason we're supporting this bill, and we just hope it goes through before the boating season starts.

On the Ottawa River there is the Carillon Dam, built by Hydro-Québec way back in 1959. Ever since then we've been seeing a slew of tourists on the Ottawa River. But let me tell you, there have been some major incidents on the Ottawa River because of the increasing number of boaters. There was no law. We have visits of the OPP on the Ottawa River, every weekend especially, but their hands are tied at the present time. You could have your driver's licence suspended, but you were able to use a boat on the Ottawa River. This is where the law is lacking. There is no protection for the leisure people who use the Ottawa River more and more.

It's funny. Just three weeks ago, we found out that the Ottawa River was not recognized by Heritage Rivers of Canada. Why? We don't know. During Champlain's time it was the only means of transportation to carry furs from Baie James to Ottawa and Montreal.

At the present time, with the increase in the number of boaters, there is police surveillance on the Ottawa River, but again they have their hands tied. We were able to attract boats from Kingston that were coming down to Montreal, back up by the Ottawa River and right up to the nation's capital. They stop in Hawkesbury, L'Orignal, Lefaivre, Rockland, Cumberland, and then they end up in Ottawa.

I just hope the whole assembly will unanimously support this bill because it is for the protection of our people, and this bill will also increase the number of tourists on Ontario waterways.

There have been many accidents all over Ontario and on Lake Ontario, and there was nothing to prevent these suspended drivers from coming on the rivers, on the waterways of Ontario. Even though their driver's licence was suspended for having been caught drunk, they were able to go on the Ottawa River and use a Sea-Doo, use a boat. I just hope that we will include the Sea-Doo in this part because there are more and more Sea-Doos on Ontario waterways.

This is an industry that is growing. It attracts some tourists but also it chases some tourists away from the tourist areas, because on weekends, especially on Sunday, we see a bundle of Sea-Doos on the river and many times I suspect whether those people should be driving those Sea-Doos on the river.

Once again, the Ottawa River is the most important river. As I said and as Mayor Lacroix has said, there are over 10,000 boats registered on the Ottawa River. This is a stretch of only 110 kilometres. If we look at the rest of the province, you could imagine how many boats we have registered in Ontario.

Once again I will definitely support that bill and I want to congratulate the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay for coming up with this bill.

Mr Bisson: First of all, I want to congratulate the member opposite for introducing this bill. I think it's high time that we recognize that drinking and driving, no matter what the motorized vehicle might be, is not an acceptable practice in Ontario.

It is now widely accepted that anybody who is drinking and driving on Ontario's highways, when pulled over, is going to get their licence withdrawn for 12 hours if it's an infraction under a certain limit, over that they lose their licence, and at one point they lose it for life. We recognize that when it comes to motor vehicles and snow machines, but we don't recognize that when it comes to boats. To the member across the way, I want to congratulate him on bringing forward this particular bill.

I want to say, however, that the reason you had the bill I think demonstrates to what extent people sometimes are their own worst enemy. We hopefully are all responsible voters and responsible in what we try to do. Never would this member opposite have had to bring forward the bill if people hadn't decided to go out and act irresponsibly when it comes to operating motor boats on our waterways in Ontario.

We have seen incidents, unfortunately too frequently, where we've seen kids who have been killed, people who were bystanders who were killed or injured, who had nothing to do with the person who happened to be driving the boat who was intoxicated. We've seen all kinds of tragedies, to the point that there's been a public outcry for the government to move forward and try to put an end to what is a very serious problem.

This member comes forward in trying to recognize by way of legislative action that driving a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol should be illegal and subject to the same fine that applies to a person driving another vehicle under the motor vehicle act.

I want to make a plea to people out there because I am an avid snowmobiler, as are many other people from northern Ontario. I love to get out on either my Polaris or my Bombardier and take a nice ride on a Saturday or Sunday, when I get the time, with my friends. I go out on the trails, enjoy the scenery, participate in the activity with friends and family. It is really a delightful way to spend some time when you have a few hours to get out.

One thing we're starting to see - I know I am not speaking directly to your bill but I think it responds to what I'm trying to say here - unfortunately is far too many people on our Ski-Doo trails driving excessively fast, to the point that they're endangering the lives of other people on the trails, endangering their own lives. We're seeing an increasing amount of alcohol utilized on the trails. Although we are protected under the motor vehicle protection act in that if somebody gets caught, they get their licence withdrawn the same as any other motor vehicle, the fact is that it's very hard to enforce this.

The Ontario trail system, when it comes to snow machines, is so large that it is very difficult to get a police presence out there to really clamp down and send a message that if you're going to get on your snow machine when you're intoxicated, you're going to get caught. Because of that, the OFSC has embarked on a program with the local police and the Ontario Provincial Police to have trail wardens to patrol the trails.

The point I want to make is this. Because of the actions of a few people who decide they want to be irresponsible, they're going to mess up the sport for people like me who like to get out, drive within the speed limit most of the time and try as much as possible to operate their snow machine in a safe manner respecting other people who are on the trail. The same thing has happened with boats.

This never would have been an issue if people had not decided that they were going to be careless. Unfortunately, what we've seen is mostly younger people - I don't want to attribute it just to younger people because I've seen people my age and older act foolishly behind boats as well. But people decide: "Nothing's going to happen to me, I'm invincible. I will never be a peril and have any kind of accident because I'm always in control.

I just can go out and yip it up, drink as much as I want and get totally intoxicated, jump in my boat and go for one heck of a good ride and have a great time." Your good ride unfortunately has cost people's lives, has caused people injury, has caused people all kinds of trauma that we don't even want to talk about here today, and now this particular Conservative member, Mr Grimmett, has come into the House and introduced a bill to try to clamp down on it.

If people out there are looking and saying, "Jeez, why is the government doing this?" it's because there have been some irresponsible people out there who have decided that they're going to go out, yip it up on a Saturday afternoon and not have regard for anyone else who is on the waterways and have created this problem to the point that a member of this House has to come forward with a bill.

My warning or my suggestion to people out there watching is that if we don't want the police always watching over our shoulder to make sure that we're driving our snow machines properly or we're driving our boats properly, be responsible. Remember that when you get behind the wheel or you get behind the engine of a snow machine or a boat, or whatever other type of motorized vehicle it is, you have to take responsibility. That is a lethal weapon when you think about it. You could endanger your own life by trying to drive too recklessly, and more important, you're going to be putting in danger the lives of many other people by carrying on in an irresponsible fashion.

I have to say to people out there, if you're mad because this member is bringing forward this bill, you have no one to be mad at but yourselves. It's people themselves who have created this problem, it's people who have decided to be irresponsible, and this member is doing the responsible thing by coming before this House with a bill to try to address what is a real problem. Unfortunately, there were far too many prayer services last summer and funerals for people who have died because of the accidents on our waterways, and most of them were attributable to alcohol. So if you say to people, "Don't drink and drive," that applies to boats, bikes and snow machines as well as it applies to cars.

Je veux remercier le député M. Grimmett pour avoir eu l'idée d'amener en avant ce projet de loi. Je pense que c'est à peu près temps qu'on essaie de revenir à une réalité, que n'importe quel véhicule avec un moteur, si c'est un char, une bicyclette - une moto - un bateau, une machine à neige, est une machine dangereuse et, comme telle, on a besoin de s'assurer qu'on a des lois qui disent qu'on ne peut pas utiliser ces machines quand on est sous l'influence de l'alcool.

Excuse-moi. Ce sont des actions du monde qui ne sont pas responsables qui ont causé cette situation. Ce n'est pas une majorité, on le sait. On sait que la majorité du monde qui utilisent des bateaux sont comme nous autres, qu'ils essaient d'être responsables, mais il y a eu assez de monde qui ont causé des incidents dans les dernières années, qui ont causé la mort des personnes, qui ont envoyé du monde à l'hôpital, qu'il est devenu un problème.

Ce député, Mr Grimmett du Parti conservateur, a eu l'idée de venir en avant avec ce projet de loi, et à cause de ça, on va essayer de boucher le problème dans la loi qu'on a qui ne traite pas les bateaux comme des véhicules sous la «motor vehicle act». I want to thank the member across the way.

I want to suggest in the last minute I have that I think we would probably have unanimous consent of the three parties in the House if we were to decide at the end of second reading today to skip the committee process and send this directly to third reading. I think we have debated this issue far too many times in the Legislature. We have now debated it with vehicles, cars, snow machines, everything else. The point is that these are motor vehicles.

Clearly we don't need a bunch of committee work to figure out that this needs to be done, and I would suggest to Mr Grimmett across the way that our party would be prepared to give unanimous consent to have this bill skip the committee process and go to third reading.

My fear is that if we allow this to go only to second reading and it gets caught in an infernal committee somewhere, this bill will never see the light of day. We all know how government operates and we all know how ministries operate, and often they don't want to support a private member's bill. I would be prepared to move, after our vote, that we agree to allow this bill to go through second reading, directly to third and skip the committee process so that this bill can get passed and we can save lives in Ontario next summer. Get rid of the red tape.

Mr John Hastings (Etobicoke-Rexdale): I'm certainly pleased to join the debate regarding the member's bill on this whole subject matter. I would like, on behalf of the Minister of Transportation and myself, to congratulate the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay for being so persistent in bringing back this bill in terms of how it could save a lot of lives in the next few years.

I think the timing is very propitious in that we have thousands and thousands of people in Metropolitan Toronto, in the new city of Toronto, who have camps, cottages and other recreational facilities in north-central and northern Ontario, and they usually take their boats and trailers, starting this weekend, up to those locations for the summer. So I think within the context of timing, the member's bill is very, very propitious in that sense.

In this province we have had over 816 Ontario citizens die in motor vehicle accidents in the year 1996 alone, of which 203 situations involved a drinking driver. In the same year we had 45 fatal boating incidents, 19 of them involving alcohol. The Ontario Provincial Police have estimated there are approximately 150 people yearly charged with drinking and driving. Clearly we need to do more to reduce drinking on our motorways and on our boatways.

I think it's so important in the sense of this bill that even one incident of a boating death or a boating accident involving injury is one too many. In fact, if you look at it in terms of personal tragedy, there is also the enormous cost involved to our health care system when you have an irresponsible drinking boater taking a boat, racing it through a small-boating-area waterway where there are swimmers - and we've had many of these incidents in the past - and that particular vessel has struck the swimmers involved.

Our government, as everyone may know or ought to know, has taken a strong and proud position when it comes to protecting public safety. The government has clearly demonstrated its commitment by reducing the incidence of drinking and driving on our roadways through the administrative driver's licence suspension system.

As well, we have taken several other vigorous measures, some of which will come into effect this particular autumn through the comprehensive road safety bill that was passed by this Legislature in June 1997. Furthermore, the measures this fall will include mandatory remedial treatment or education programs for all those drinking drivers who have been convicted in our courts of this particular charge; extended licence suspension periods, as well as impoundment of vehicles that have been the cause of these unfortunate tragedies and incidents.

In principle, the transportation ministry supports this proposed legislation to maximize safety on Ontario's waterways. By introducing a further deterrent linked to suspending the driving privileges of those convicted of operating a boat while impaired, these people will think twice before they attempt to use a boat while intoxicated. If and when passed by this Legislature, boaters who are convicted under the Criminal Code of Canada for operating a boat while impaired will have their driving privileges suspended under current sanctions contained in the Highway Traffic Act.

I believe that the strategic linkage suspending driving privileges and impaired boating is not only logical but worth pursuing. I believe we should work together to overcome any difficulties to reinforce this government's proven commitment to reducing drinking and driving, whether it be by snowmobile, car, truck or boat.

Once again, I'd like to commend the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay for bringing forth this legislation, particularly as we start the long weekend when people are using boats of various capacities, some of them without thinking of their responsibilities and how they exercise that particular vessel on the water system of this province. Thank you once again to the member for reminding us of the importance of this aspect of public safety on Ontario's water system.

Mr Bernard Grandmaître (Ottawa East): I too would like to congratulate the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay for his private member's bill this morning. I can recall when a similar private member's bill was introduced by Mr McLean some time ago, last year if I'm not mistaken. But the government saw fit at the time not to endorse the bill. It never received third reading or royal assent. It died on the order paper. Let's hope Mr Grimmett's bill will not have the same fate as the previous bill.

Speaker after speaker has been talking about responsibility. I support this bill for the simple reason that boat drivers, vessel operators, have to be responsible people, just as if they were driving a car or truck on one of our highways. I support the fact that this bill says that their driver's licence should be suspended or even cancelled.

I happen to enjoy a cottage on a very small lake. I can tell you that year after year I can see the great increase of boats on our lake. The capacity is forever increasing and, sorry to say, we have more irresponsible people year after year.

I will share the remaining time with another colleague. I just want to congratulate again the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay. We will support his bill.

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): I'm very pleased to rise and respond to this particular bill, Bill 5, previously Bill 154. I've been rather privileged to have grown up on the water. When I was young, it was Lake Ontario, where the Lennox generating station now sits. Now, with my family, we are fortunate to have a cottage on Lake Kashwakamak, just below the Mazinaw. When I was 12 I built a canvas-covered kayak. I built a power boat when I was 16. I feel very privileged to have been that close to the water over the years.

Over and above the speed of kayaks and canoes versus the speed of a 150-horsepower outboard motor going 50 miles an hour or 80 kilometres an hour, there are also trolling speeds for fishing. People are swimming and they can't get out of the way very quickly. We also have paddle boats, which are slow in the water; we have pontoon boats and houseboats. All of these activities are going on on a lake.

If you compare it with the driving of cars, with cars there are some in front of you and there are some behind you, but when you're out on the lake, an open body of water, they're coming at you or going away from you from all points on the compass. It's certainly a very different kind of driving experience. Add to that some of the problems of visibility. Some of the windshields of boats certainly are not to be compared to those of cars. There is great reflection off the water. Add to that maybe a water skier out behind a boat. It's tremendously different than driving a car. It's far more complex and the rules are different.

I'm very pleased to see the support of both of the opposition parties, the official opposition and the third party, for this particular bill. We're quite anxious to get this through for the boating season of 1998. I'm certainly very pleased to see the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay bringing this bill in for the second time and also the support of the opposition for this bill.

I really have to wonder why it should be any different when you're in trouble drinking and driving a boat than it would be with a car or a skidoo. We certainly have legislation for skidoos. Wow, when you add alcohol to the mix of 150, 200 horsepower outboard motors on boats and similarly inboards and outboards, that kind of power, it is not have a healthy mix. A lot of people enjoy the water. They shouldn't have to be challenged with this kind of risk when they're out there.

There's no question there are statistics showing a decline in drinking and driving, particularly of our young people, a tremendous decline in that area. That relates to education. What's important about this bill coming forward is that it will put it in front of boaters and people in general. There'll be an education component to make people aware that it's not right to drink and drive.

Charges were mentioned by the member for Riverdale. There were 2,292 charges in 1996, increasing to 2,442 in 1997, up 6.5%. There has been a steady rise in charges over the last several years. There's no question enforcement is being carried out.

This bill will put us on the same footing for drinking and driving as it does for -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you. Further debate?

Mr Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre): I rise today as well in support of this bill. I think the issue has been around long enough for the consideration of every aspect and pretty well every side of the issue. It covers all vehicles, but it really pertains to what one would hope would be a sense of social responsibility on the part of persons. But when that doesn't happen, perhaps this would act as a deterrent. It is at least consistent with other responsibilities and other deterrents and other charges and punishments related to the operation of motor vehicles, motorcycles and even those who travel through the woods on their skidoos.

Talking about skidoos, Sea-Doos, I don't know if you can put into this bill, by the way, whether we can have some mufflers added to Sea-Doos. Let me tell you, it destroys a lot of the flora and fauna in a lot of lakes with kids buzzing around on these things.

There was a tragedy in Lake Muskoka several years ago that affected a friend of our family, a young woman whose fiancé got killed by a boat that was speeding. The operator was under the influence of alcohol. This has happened many, many times; I'm sure some people know of personal situations. What a tragedy; young life, just before they got married, and this had a tremendous impact on us who knew this young man.

There's no question that we need to advise people. We also need to educate people. We need to continue to promote the responsibility that people have when they are driving a vehicle which is a powerful piece of machinery or a vehicle which can quickly slip on the water and bash into someone else who might be in a canoe or a sailboat or something of that nature.

I'm happy to support this. I would suggest to the members that if they want to see the example of total responsibility related to boating - the boating season opens up this weekend - the Canadian Tulip Festival has a flotilla of boats, all kinds of boats. They will not, of course, be speeding at all; they will be slowly going down the canal to the hundreds of thousands of people who will be visiting the Ottawa-Carleton region this weekend. As past president of the tulip festival and not being able to see it because I've been here all this particular week, a lot of it, I want to congratulate all my friends.

I'd like to congratulate the member for this bill and will be happy to support it when it comes forward.

The Speaker: To sum up, the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay.

Mr Grimmett: I certainly have been very encouraged. I want to thank all the members who have spoken today on this bill. In particular, I'd like to thank the members opposite for their encouragement and their suggestion that if we can proceed with this bill directly to third reading, it may give us the opportunity to allow the police to utilize this extra tool during the boating season in 1998. Upon concluding my remarks, if the bill does attain second reading, I will also be asking that it be moved ahead directly for third reading.

I wanted to comment on the suggestion of the member for Riverdale that this bill applies to motorized vessels. In fact, it applies to all vessels, whether they're motorized or not. It might be of interest to the member for Riverdale that 30% of those people who die annually in vessels actually are in canoes. We have a problem with people drinking and operating canoes. There's some rather graphic information from the police that I won't pass on today as to the usual reason this happens to males in canoes.

I wanted to sum up by saying that the main impact this bill will have is that it will help to change attitudes among boaters so that they will more seriously consider the risks, not only to themselves and their fellow passengers, but also to other people on the waterway, if they choose to consume alcohol and operate their vessel. This will be an opportunity for this House to send out a message to the public that drinking and boating is not acceptable.

IRISH HERITAGE DAY ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LE JOUR DU PATRIMOINE IRLANDAIS

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Mr O'Toole has moved second reading of Bill 8,

An Act proclaiming Irish Heritage Day. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr John O'Toole (Durham East): Point of order, Mr Speaker: I would seek unanimous consent to move the bill through for third reading.

The Speaker: Rather than move it, we'll order it. You're seeking unanimous consent to order it for third reading. Agreed? Agreed.

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC AMENDMENT ACT (LICENCE SUSPENSIONS), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT LE CODE DE LA ROUTE (SUSPENSIONS DE PERMIS)

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Mr Grimmett has moved second reading of Bill 5,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act with respect to the suspension of drivers' licences. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Bill Grimmett (Muskoka-Georgian Bay): Point of order, Mr Speaker: I would ask for unanimous consent that the bill be ordered for third reading.

The Speaker: Agreed? Agreed.

It now being just past 12 of the clock, this House stands adjourned until 1:30 of the clock.

The House recessed from 1203 to 1331.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

BERYL POTTER

Mr Alvin Curling (Scarborough North): I rise today to honour Beryl Potter, a great woman who selflessly served her community and the citizens of Ontario in a long life of public service. With her passing early this month at the age of 71, Ontario has lost a woman who truly demonstrated the spirit of sharing.

Mrs Potter was a tireless advocate for the disabled, herself a triple amputee. She spent the last three decades working on campaigns to advance the interests of disabled people in Ontario.

Working at both the grass roots and provincial levels, her achievements are impressive:

In 1975 she formed the Scarborough Recreation Club for Disabled Adults, helping people to cope with their disabilities.

In 1980 she founded the Ontario Action Awareness Association to lobby politicians on behalf of the handicapped.

In 1981, the International Year of the Disabled, she was an organizer of the group PUSH, Persons United for Self-Help.

Mrs Potter served on the Ontario advisory council on the physically disabled and was also co-chair of the coalition on employment equity for disabled persons.

In addition, she collected $31 million in Dominion cash register tapes that were exchanged for $66,000 to buy wheelchairs, canes and aids for disabled people.

In the 1990 Ontario general election, she took on another challenge and ran as the Liberal candidate in the riding of Beaches-Woodbine, finishing second.

Her honours included the Order of Ontario, the Order of Canada, an inductee into the Terry Fox Hall of Fame, an honorary doctor of laws degree from the University of Windsor, as well as dozens of other awards and accolades.

Mrs Potter was predeceased by her husband, Victor Carter. On behalf of the Legislative Assembly, I extend condolences to her children, Dianne, Victor and Dennis, her grandchildren, her brother Norman, and to all those whose lives have been touched by the remarkable accomplishments of a truly remarkable woman.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Ms Marilyn Churley (Riverdale): I've received a very interesting letter written by Garry Guzzo, MPP for Ottawa-Rideau, to David Turnbull, the government chief whip. This letter has been widely distributed to many people. Here it is in three parts for the benefit of the members of the public:

"Dear Minister:

"This will refer to our discussions of last week with regards to the above-captioned item. I write at this time to record my total dissatisfaction with your behaviour and with the inconsistency with which you apply the rules of conduct in these matters. You will recall that I raised this item with you by way of letter dated May 10, 1997, a copy of which is attached and as of this date, we have not discussed the issue.

"Let me be abundantly clear that I advised you in person on Tuesday last, May 3, 1998, when you raised the issue with me that Mr Baird wished to speak on my bill, notwithstanding that his position was diametrically opposed to mine, I would be willing to provide five or six minutes for him, and all he had to do was ask like a human being. This was the same position that I presented to the local minister...when he raised the issue with me the following day.

On Thursday morning at 9:45, when your staff contacted my office, Mr Baird had still not had the decency to make the request and by this hour, having learning about his discreditable behaviour, I could appreciate why he wasn't capable of looking me in the eye and asking me like a man. When your staff contacted me at my office, I could not take the call myself because I was in discussion with a member of the regional council of Ottawa-Carleton."

Stay tuned for

part 2.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Member for Halton North. I don't appreciate that. I would ask that you not do that any more, please.

BUSINESS AWARDS

Mrs Lillian Ross (Hamilton West): Last night, I had the pleasure of attending the Outstanding Business Achievement Awards dinner sponsored by the chamber of commerce. This event is held once a year to recognize those companies and individuals whose success has impacted positively on the economy of Hamilton-Wentworth and has contributed to making Hamilton the number one city in Ontario in which to invest and grow a business, and we're pretty proud of that.

The Small Business Award was presented to the Meat Factory which was founded in 1980 and located in Stoney Creek. The Meat Factory is Canada's largest processor of peameal bacon.

The large business award was presented to Amcan Castings, founded in 1942 and located in the city of Hamilton. Amcan designs and manufactures high-pressure aluminum die casting for the North American automotive industry.

Bermingham Construction Ltd, founded in 1897, won the award in the Ironman category for their 100 years' - and more - contribution as a leader in the field of foundation and marine construction.

The Young Entrepreneur Award was presented to Mirella Marsilio of Mirella's ladies boutique who founded her operation in 1992.

Special recognition was also given to ONTV for their highly deserved recognition and their contribution to the community of Hamilton-Wentworth.

On behalf of the constituents in Hamilton West, and I believe in all of the city, I want to thank all of the winners and all of the nominees.

INTERCOUNTRY ADOPTION

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-Walkerville): For some weeks now myself and my colleague from Lawrence have been raising the issue of the Hague convention, a document which needs to be signed to allow Romanian babies to come into Ontario and be properly adopted.

We have identified 35 families in this province who are waiting, and have been waiting, because Ontario is one of the only jurisdictions in Canada to not ratify this particular convention. Until such time as that's done we have to work under an obscure memorandum of understanding.

We had the families to Queen's Park some five weeks ago. The minister did a press release that day saying, "We're going to bring in legislation as soon as the House comes back and we're going to pass that legislation so we can deal with this troubling problem." Like so much else, the fire and brimstone and rhetoric are not followed up by substance. To date there's been no law, no bill.

Later today my colleague will be introducing a private member's bill on this issue. We challenge the government to adopt it so that people like Ann Lecours can have her baby over here as soon as possible. In fact, good news today, thanks to the efforts of our federal counterparts, her baby's going to be in this province probably in another four to five weeks. People like Gerry Levitt have made that possible.

I wish this government would do what's right and do the honourable and decent thing and bring in legislation if you won't support Joe Cordiano's bill.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Mr Rosario Marchese (Fort York): I continue where my colleague the member for Riverdale left off.

"The irate councillor was calling because of Mr Baird's submission to him the day before in Ottawa when Mr Baird advised him that my bill would mean the destruction of French-language services within the municipal structure of Ottawa-Carleton. My answer to the irate councillor was quite simple. I asked him why people like M. Grandmaître and M. Morin would be supporting this bill if that were the case. The councillor had no answer to my question and was satisfied with my position, notwithstanding the slanderous misrepresentation received the day before.

"My question to you, Minister, is very basic: Why is it that you and your office were concerned with the speaking arrangement of my private member's bill? How many other people in this caucus have had the type of interference from the whip's office with regard to their private members' bills? And why, when the local minister, Mr Sterling, and the minister responsible, municipal affairs, are both supporting the bill, are you running around in circles attempting to interfere with my speaking arrangement for Thursday morning? How many other members of our caucus have had to put up with this type of intrusion?"

The member for Beaches-Woodbine will continue from there so we can hear the rest of it.

INTERNATIONAL DAY OF THE FAMILY

Mr Jim Brown (Scarborough West): Tomorrow, Friday, May 15, is International Day of the Family. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the importance of having strong, healthy families. Strong family units are the foundation of our society. As chair of the family issues caucus, I have spent a lot of time talking about issues that concern the family.

The health of the family unit is a good indicator of the health of society in general. When the family is under attack, the repercussions are felt in our workplaces, in our schools, on our streets and in all our institutions.

We have made such great progress in recent decades. The standard of living has been steadily rising. White-collar jobs have been replacing blue-collar jobs. We've developed a social safety net that is second to none.

Yet, on the other hand, our families are falling apart. Since 1990, for every 10 marriages between people aged 20 to 49, five end in divorce. That means half the children in this province come from broken homes.

Even more disturbing, since 1955, the rate of child suicide for children aged 10 to 14 has increased by 1,100%. We know we are doing something terribly wrong when innocent children are ending their own lives at such an appalling rate.

We must find ways to strengthen our families. When families are healthy, society is healthy. The family is the place where children first learn that they are valued, and they in turn learn to value others.

By building a strong economy, a fair tax system, a healthy job market and a responsible welfare system, this government has been helping families help themselves.

Recognizing that tomorrow is International Day of the Family, I hope we will all make a pledge to continue to do everything in our power to make changes that help families stay together.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): My phone has been ringing off the hook. Councillors, mayors, reeves, politicians from all across northern Ontario have been phoning my office for the last day and a half asking if the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Northern Development and Mines was correct when he said two evenings ago on two different occasions during debate on Bill 12 that, yes, there will be a permanent fund for northern Ontario to replace the transition money to ease the downloading initiatives by the Tory government.

The Northwestern Ontario Municipal Association and the Federation of Northern Ontario Municipalities have been asking for this fund for a year and a half. If indeed this is the case and we are going to get that permanent fund, we in opposition will be very happy because it will acknowledge our repeated requests that our northern municipalities be treated with respect and a permanent fund be set up.

Minister, I ask you to live up to the commitment made by your parliamentary assistant not once but twice when he said, "It's done; it's a done deal." I challenge the Minister of Northern Development and Mines to prove to me, to Dalton McGuinty, to the northern Liberal caucus, and to every member in this House that you will live up to the commitment made by your parliamentary assistant.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-Woodbine): Guzzo letter,

part 3.

"Now let me ask the question straight out: Is there a double standard in this caucus? Is there one set of rules for one group and another set of rules for another group? Does it matter to any of the members of our caucus who sat on a committee and sabotaged the plan for the Ottawa Market that the biggest vendor on the market today is the National Grocery chain which moves a freezer truck in at 5:30 am every Saturday morning? Who gives a damn about the local growers who have supported the market over the past 75 years? Certainly not the members of our caucus who failed to appreciate the local impact.

"Please be assured that I do not need to be advised that we are all on the same team! I know who is on my team every time I go to the Ottawa Market on a Saturday morning and will be reminded again by Ontario PCs in the Ottawa area who continually ask how someone could vote for the megacity but continue to support 12 municipalities for 700,000 people in Ottawa-Carleton. I do appreciate that your job is a difficult one at the best of times. I do appreciate that it is not made any easier when people who cannot act as adults come snivelling around asking you to break the rules and assist in sabotage.

It is true that one cannot expect professional, or even maturity in all members of a caucus totalling 82, but one can certainly expect it from the chief government whip."

We knew there were double standards in this government for the people of Ontario. We knew there were double standards in this House for the government versus opposition. We didn't know it existed within the Tory caucus.

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: There's a lot of noise in here, but in fairness to the chief government whip, I would like to ask unanimous consent for him to respond.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Agreed? No. I heard a no.

TOURISM

Mr W. Leo Jordan (Lanark-Renfrew): I am pleased to announce that my riding of Lanark-Renfrew has become a partner with Ontario Tourism to celebrate Ontario Tourism Week, May 18 to 24. I have a newspaper advertisement on the importance of tourism which was placed by Marie Elmsley, tourism coordinator for Lanark county, the maple syrup capital of eastern Ontario and of Ontario as a province. As well, Marie Cheesman, tourism coordinator for Renfrew, has invited me to the annual "Blackfly Barbecue" for about 100 area tourism stakeholders next week, Tourism Week.

I would like to salute both Lanark and Renfrew counties for their diligent marketing efforts on behalf of eastern Ontario tourism. Stakeholders of tourism and small business in my riding have told me they are thrilled with the new emphasis this government has placed on this very exciting and revenue-producing industry, and I have the minister with me here this afternoon to support me on that.

Some $120 million has been budgeted to assist with the marketing of tourism ventures over the next four years. We estimate 56,000 jobs in eastern Ontario. We know this number will increase significantly.

I encourage all members to work with the tourism industry in their communities in celebrating Ontario Tourism Week.

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-Woodbine): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I'm rising on a point of order because the member for Lanark-Renfrew was using a prop, that being the minister, and that's just not allowed in this House.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): The minister is not a prop.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PREVENTION OF UNIONIZATION ACT (ONTARIO WORKS), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 VISANT À EMPÊCHER LA SYNDICALISATION (PROGRAMME ONTARIO AU TRAVAIL)

Mrs Ecker moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 22,

An Act to Prevent Unionization with respect to Community Participation under the Ontario Works Act, 1997 / Projet de loi 22, Loi visant à empêcher la syndicalisation en ce qui concerne la participation communautaire visée par la Loi de 1997 sur le programme Ontario au travail.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed, please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1347 to 1352.

The Speaker: All those in favour of the bill, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Baird, John R.

Bassett, Isabel

Beaubien, Marcel

Brown, Jim

Carroll, Jack

Cunningham, Dianne

Danford, Harry

Ecker, Janet

Flaherty, Jim

Ford, Douglas B.

Fox, Gary

Galt, Doug

Grimmett, Bill

Hardeman, Ernie

Harnick, Charles

Hastings, John

Hodgson, Chris

Johnson, David

Johnson, Ron

Jordan, W. Leo

Klees, Frank

Marland, Margaret

Maves, Bart

McLean, Allan K.

Munro, Julia

Mushinski, Marilyn

Newman, Dan

O'Toole, John

Palladini, Al

Parker, John L.

Rollins, E.J. Douglas

Ross, Lillian

Sampson, Rob

Saunderson, William

Sheehan, Frank

Skarica, Toni

Snobelen, John

Spina, Joseph

Sterling, Norman W.

Stewart, R. Gary

Tilson, David

Turnbull, David

Wilson, Jim

Wood, Bob

Young, Terence H.

The Speaker: All those opposed, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Bartolucci, Rick

Boyd, Marion

Bradley, James J.

Christopherson, David

Churley, Marilyn

Cordiano, Joseph

Curling, Alvin

Duncan, Dwight

Hampton, Howard

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Lankin, Frances

Lessard, Wayne

Marchese, Rosario

McGuinty, Dalton

North, Peter

Patten, Richard

Phillips, Gerry

Ramsay, David

Ruprecht, Tony

Sergio, Mario

Silipo, Tony

Wildman, Bud

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 45; the nays are 24.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

INTERCOUNTRY ADOPTION (THE HAGUE CONVENTION) ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR L'ADOPTION INTERNATIONALE (CONVENTION DE LA HAYE)

Mr Cordiano moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 23,

An Act to implement The Hague Convention on the Protection of Children and Co-operation in respect of Intercountry Adoption / Projet de loi 23, Loi de mise en application de la Convention de La Haye sur la protection des enfants et la coopération en matière d'adoption internationale.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Joseph Cordiano (Lawrence): This bill would see the Hague convention on intercountry adoption finally ratified in Ontario. The government and the minister have given their support to this bill. The legislation would finally bring the convention into force in Ontario. Without this ratification, many families have been caught in what amounts to a bureaucratic nightmare, so I urge the government to move forward and pass this legislation on behalf of all those families that have been waiting.

TECHNOLOGY FOR CLASSROOMS TAX CREDIT ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LE CRÉDIT D'IMPÔT FAVORISANT L'EMP/ LOI DE LA TECHNOLOGIE DANS LES SALLES DE CLASSE

Mr Hastings moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 24,

An Act to amend the Education Act and the Income Tax Act to provide for a tax credit for private sector investment in classroom technology / Projet de loi 24, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'éducation et la Loi de l'impôt sur le revenu pour créer un crédit d'impôt pour les investissements du secteur privé dans la technologie employée dans les salles de classe.

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): Is that a tax bill?

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): I don't know.

Mr Wildman: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: This sounds, although we haven't seen the bill itself, as if -

The Speaker: I think I'll finish the vote and then I'll deal with the point of order.

Is it the pleasure of the House the motion carry?

Mr Wildman: Mr Speaker -

The Speaker: Order. We're in the middle of -

Mr Wildman: Is it in order for him to introduce it?

The Speaker: Member for Algoma, I will deal with that directly after I finish the vote.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed, please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it. I declare the motion carried.

A short comment from the member from Rexdale.

Mr John Hastings (Etobicoke-Rexdale): The purpose of this bill is to provide for private sector investment in computer software and hardware so that it could be appropriately donated to school boards.

The Speaker: Member for Algoma, point of order.

Mr Wildman: Frankly, just on hearing the title of the bill and the explanation from the private member, it appears to me that this is an attempt by a member who is not part of the government bench to introduce a tax measure, that this is a bill that would provide for a tax credit, which only a member of the treasury bench can introduce in the House in order for it to be in order. It sounds to me like this is simply an attempt by the government to put through a government bill using a private member. If they want to do this, it should be a member of the treasury bench.

The Speaker: Member for Algoma, I haven't read the bill and I won't until it's printed. When it's printed, I will review the bill and report back to the House.

Mr Hastings: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: In point of fact, this particular bill also was introduced last December 18 and there was no objection at that time on this basis.

The Speaker: That's not a point of order.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Member for Etobicoke-Rexdale, his is a point of order.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Member, I'm not going to debate with you. His is a point of order. I'll take it under advisement. Yours is not a point of order.

VISITORS

Mr Alvin Curling (Scarborough North): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: May I be given the opportunity to introduce in the House Mrs Shirley Lewis, the clerk to both levels of the Houses of Parliament in Jamaica?

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you, but that's out of order.

Mr Mario Sergio (Yorkview): I would also like to rise on a point of order, Mr Speaker: I have the pleasure of introducing grade 13 law students from Emery Collegiate Institute and their teacher.

The Speaker: Let's remember, members, that's not a point of order. In fact, it's out of order. I know full well, member for Yorkview, that you didn't know. I may introduce people, actually, so that's what I'm going to do now.

I would like to inform the members of the Legislative Assembly that we have in the Speaker's gallery today a parliamentary delegation from the Republic of Bulgaria led by the Honourable Jordan Sokolov, president of the National Assembly, and also Mr Dimitar Philipov, consul general, Republic of Bulgaria. Welcome.

Now that was in order.

Hon Margaret Marland (Minister without Portfolio [children's issues]): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I would like to take the opportunity to allow the House to have the privilege of welcoming Mr Ignat Kaneff, who is here as our guest today, and is one of the leading philanthropist citizens of our great province, for which he received an honorary doctorate of laws from the University of Toronto. He also is from Bulgaria.

The Speaker: Welcome. That's as much in order as the member for Yorkview was, as a matter of fact.

Since we're at it, is anyone else here?

Mr Jack Carroll (Chatham-Kent): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: Since we are at it and you're being so lenient, I wo