Manitoba Hansard — 6 May 2011 (Sitting 41C, 39th Legislature, 5th Session)

39-5-41c

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXIII No. 41C – 10 a.m., Friday, May 6, 2011 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Wellington N.D.P.

MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon.

Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WIEBE, Matt Concordia N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Inkster Vacant Lac du Bonnet

1597 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Friday, May 6, 2011 The House met at 10 a.m. ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) HEALTHY LIVING, YOUTH AND SENIORS Mr. Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors): On behalf of the Department of Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors and on behalf of the nine ministers of the Healthy Child Committee of Cabinet and their departments in the Healthy Child Manitoba strategy, I am pleased to present to this committee for its consideration the 2011-2012 expenditure estimates for Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors.

It's truly an honour to lead the department dedicated to prevention and promotion across the life course and to work with all departments and communities to prevent the major health and social problems facing our province today. I'm proud to chair the only standing committee in Canada that's dedicated to improving opportunities and the quality of life for children and youth. As a government, we are continuing our commitment to the Healthy Child Manitoba strategy, which focuses on cross-sectoral prevention and early intervention for children, youth, families and communities.

In 2007, we announced a provincial FASD strategy to strategically build upon important investments we have made since taking office in FASD prevention, intervention and support services and research, and we will continue this. Manitoba continues to learn from and act upon the latest research evidence on the importance of investing in children across the life course, especially during their earliest years.

That's why in 2011-2012, we are working with our community and government partners to open an early model childhood development centre in Lord Selkirk Park, modelled after the evidence-based abecedarian approach, the new carousel site will provide co-located, integrated and culturally appropriate services with the core components being an enriched early childhood development program and a family resource centre. We look forward to the opening. Our commitment to supporting families and communities is further demonstrated by the funding we provide to parent-child coalitions.

These community coalitions work collaboratively with their local communities to provide developmentary and appropriately–sorry, developmentally appropriate learning programs for preschool children and their families. Research shows that starting school is an important development transition in the lives of children, and we'll work with others to continue this programming. The Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors support are a range of programs and services developed to meet the interests and priorities of youth across Manitoba.

Community engagement, school-to-work transitions, career development, employment readiness and work experience are all issues on the minds of young people. Programs such as the Youth Job Corps, Youth Advisory Council, wage subsidy and scholarship programs address these issues and encourage our young people to grow and see a future for themselves in our province. I am pleased that the 2011-12 Estimates contain expanded programming for youth; in particular, the rollout of the Manitoba Mentors Program is exciting.

Manitoba Mentors will connect high school students and youth with mentors from local businesses, labour and non-profit organizations with the aim of helping them make successful tran sitions from school to work, including career paths into future education training in the workforce. These connections will include a wide range of activities, such as one-to-one mentoring, small group discussions, job shadowing, field trips to area businesses, et cetera.

The program will build on outreach efforts and success models already taking place in the province and will provide a structured program through which a broad range of

1598 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 community members can support and encourage the youth. This year's Estimates also include expanded programming for youth facing multiple personal barriers to gain employment and life skills in order to enter the job market. Youth will be provided with pre-employment training, be connected to job coach mentorships and receive support during the employment phase. Youth will be referred to this program from justice and child and family service system. Mr. Chair, we believe everyone has a role to play in promoting wellness.

Individual families, communities, organizations and governments can work together to create environments and conditions that support healthy living. We're committed to developing and promoting ways to improve the healthy status of Manitobans and create environments where healthy choices is the easy choice, and we will continue to work with our partners in this endeavour. Mr. Chair, nutrition is at the heart of healthy wellness. Food is, after all, a basic human necessity and a prerequisite for health.

Our government has invested in a number of nutritional and food security initiatives: a school nutrition handbook and school food guidelines; dial-a-titian–Dial-a-Dietitian service where Manitobans can call and speak to a registered dietitian about food and nutrition. I am pleased with the Farm to School healthy food choices fundraiser that was just started with Peak of the Market, and support for food initiatives and the Child Nutrition Council of Manitoba for breakfast programs. Mr. Chairperson, I am also pleased that Manitobans enthusiastically embraced the in motion .

More than 550 schools, 64 per cent of schools are now registered as Healthy Schools in motion. They're making sure every student is physically active every day. We also have over 400 workplaces in motion and over 142 communities in motion, large and small, in every corner of the province. This has been a wonderful initiative.

Other key initiatives this year include the Healthy Schools initiative, which promotes a physical, emotional and social health of students, their families, school staff and school communities, recognizing that schools are uniquely positioned to positively influence several of the determinants that affect healthy children, adolescent family development; the Chronic Disease Prevention Initiative; the Healthy Together Now program. Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors, is providing $765,000 in annual funding for chronic disease prevention, and this goes throughout the entire province. I am pleased with this program. Mr.

Chair, we've also taken responsibility to co-ordinate bedbug issues . As the minister, in part, responsible for Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors, I am pleased Manitoba's taking a leadership role in co -ordinating efforts to address the increasing concern of bedbugs and to develop effective solutions. Key to our strategy is education, co-ordination and collaboration. An interdepartmental provincial committee has been established to co-ordinate provincial policies and activities.

Additionally, a coalition partnership has been created with other levels of government, relevant associations, community groups and businesses to co-ordinate activities on a much wider scale. * (10:10) As part of the strategy, we'll be providing organizations with access to specialized, low-cost materials to help combat bedbugs, and, additionally, there's a sma ll grant program to assist not-for-profit community organizations to address bedbug education management and prevention. A website has been developed.

Materials such as brochures, posters and fact sheets are being created to provide single-source information and tips on how to prevent, identify infestations and what steps to be taken. My department is pleased to recognize and move forward on this issue. We are also delivering the recreation system across the province.

As a key leader in health promotion, recreation practitioners and volunteers at the local community level ensure that a wide range of programs and services are available to engage children, families, youth, adults and seniors in opportunities for physical activity, skill development, play and social interaction. Manitoba will renew its efforts to reduce tobacco use and have three-year strategy that takes place on four goals of prevention, protection, cessation and denormalization. We'll expand the school-based SWAT teams–that's Students Working Against Tobacco–to assist with prevention.

We will also increase funding to the Healthy Together Now program to reduce tobacco use projects in communities. We just announced the Quit to Win, which was a great partnership with the Lung

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1599 Association, and we'll continue to work with the chronic disease people to expand the program across the province. Mr. Chairperson, the addictions system–we will continue invest in the addictions services by implementing the five-point strategy, which is Breaking the Chains of Addictions, introduced in 2008.

The strategy includes building a better system, improving service access and ability–availability for clients to receive th e right service at the right time, increasing residential treatment capacity, increasing community-based treatment capacity and reaching underserved populations, enhancing addiction research.

We've made some investments, including the Behavioural Health Foundation which has opened a new women's treatment centre at Breezy Point, north of Selkirk–we've also work ed through a centralized intake and we're working with the federal government to develop a centralized intake which would co-ordinate all the services. Mr. Chair, we'll continue to work with the prevention-based services, especially in the schools and early intervention activities, and I think that was really, really a positive step. We also are working with the seniors population to ensure health.

Manitoba continues to be a leader in Age-Friendly Initiative led by the Seniors and Healthy Aging Secretariat. It's important that we continue to support older Manitobans to lead active, socially engaged and independent lifestyles. We'll continue to improve the support of environments and communities for all, and I'm pleased to state that 72 communities, or approximately 80 per cent of Manitoba's population, are currently living in communities that are committed to being more age-friendly and have signed up.

We'll also work on seniors or elder abuse, and we will continue to work on other issues that are of importance to all Manitobans. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official opposition critic have any opening comments? Mrs.

Leanne Ro wat (Minnedosa): We have a very limited amount of time, and I have so many questions for the minister, so I'm going to keep my intro very short, just indicating that I'm very interested in this portfolio, very interested in the work that needs to be and is being done within the province with regard to Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors. And I look forward to the next three to four hours of debate on the expenditures within this department. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic from the official opposition for those remarks.

Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 34.1(

a) contained in resolution 34.1. At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance when they arrive. Mr. Rondeau: I have with me–joining me today is Jan Sanderson, who is the deputy minister of Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors and is also the CEO of the Healthy Child Manitoba Office. I also have Dave Paton, who's the executive director of Administration and Finance.

And, as far as the staff, I also have the assistant deputy minister of Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors, is Marcia Thomson; Susan Tessler, who is the director of Policy, Program Development and Implementation, Healthy Child Manitoba office; Jennifer Hibbert, who is the director of Financial Services; and Andrea Ormiston can join us, who's the program and policy analyst. Mr. Chairperson: Does the committee wish to proceed through the Estimates of the department chronologically or have a global discussion? Mrs. Rowat: Global, please. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you.

It is agreed, then, that questions before the department will proceed in a global manner, with all resolutions to be passed once questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs. Rowat: We'll start with the general housekeeping that happens with each Estimate process. Can the minister indicate to me through a process listing all his staff in his department within the minister's office and the deputy's office–sorry, not the department, within the minister and the deputy's office. That would take up the four hours, wouldn't it. There goes my four hours. Mr.

Rondeau: In my office, the minister's office, we have Marina Portz , who's the appointment secretary.

1600 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 We have Esther Hiebert, who's my executive assistant. We have my sp ecial assistant which is Tiffany Creaghe-Harder, and the administrative secretary is Janean McInnes. In the deputy minister's office, we have the deputy minister which is Jan Sanderson. The assistant to the deputy minister is Andrea Ormiston. The administrative assistant to the deputy minister is Andre Martine?–Armande Martine, and the correspondence secretary, Daniel Lemay. Mrs.

Rowat: Can the minister then share with me the name of each political staff person and the name of positions and whether they're full time or part time? Mr. Rondeau: The political appointees, Mr. Chair, are Esther Hiebert, who's my executive assistant and my special assistant who's Tiffany Creaghe-Harder. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister share with me the names of the staff people that have been hired in 2010 and 2011 including where they're hired and whether they were hired through competition or through appointment? Mr. Rondeau: Okay, Mr.

Chair, I'll start with the orders-in-council and other direct appointment details. We have Andrea Ormiston, who was a direct appointment in the deputy's office. She's career development officer 1, or something; Lisa Murdock, who's career development 1; Marcia Thomson who's an order-in-council appointment who's the assistant deputy minister for the entire department, and then we have Tiffany Creaghe-Harder, who is an order-in-council as my special assistant. The first one would be th e transfer of recovery authority from Family Services and Consumer Affairs.

And, actually, if we could just go through each of them, that might be easiest. If we wanted to look at the transfer of functions from Advanced Education and Literacy and Health, transfers of functions to Health and health–house and–Housing and Community Development, transfers from Family Services and Consumer Affairs, allocation of funds from Education, and then I'd like clarification on enabling appropriations re: internal services adjustments, if the minister can explain to me what exactly that means, and wh at those dollars would be tied to.

And then the allocation of funds to Innovation, Energy and Mines, if he could explain to me what that transaction entails. Do we have others? Oh, and I understand that the career development officers are–is the fancy name for the interns that come in and do certain term positions. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister provide for me details of how many and what type of contracts over $25,000 are being awarded directly and why this is happening and how many of these contracts are going to tender. * (10:20) Mr.

Rondeau: If it's okay with the member, rather than read them all into the record, which I could–well, why don't we just provide that to you in a reasonable amount of time, and then you'll have it on paper. Is that okay with the member? Mrs. Rowat: Yes, it is, thank you, Mr. Chair. I would then like to go into the Estimates expenditures booklet and ask some questions with regard to page 6. And the question is, Mr. Chair: With regard to the reconciliation statement, I'm just wanting to have some clarification with regard to transfers adjustments.

Can the minister provide for me information on what the allocation of dollars would be used for in regard to a program, an initiative, and there's any staff attached to this new initiative, that would be also–be seconded or transferred within departments. Mr. Rondeau: Mr. Chairperson, I understand the vast majority of the transfers are things that we are now handling with other–for other departments. An example would be the Adva nced Education; we're actually handling the Family Literacy for that group.

And so a lot of it is just transfers of programs or services or grants that, when we formed the department, we're now operating some of the programs for those departments and we assumed responsibilities for it.

As far as the big ones, which I would assume the line for the recovery from Family Services and Consumer Affairs, these are money that are youth programs that are covered under the federal agreement, and we recover these money from the feds for running youth programs and youth employment and youth-at-risk programs, and so that's the money that, under the labour market agreement, the feds transferred to Family Services and Consumer Affairs, and then we actually manage the programs to employ the youth at risk, do the

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1601 transition jobs and all that, and so that's the way that's designed. And, finally, for the Innovation, Energy and Mines, that's most the technology functions. We pay for certain functions centra lly that IEM provides. So that would be our desktop services and technology functions. Mrs. Rowat: The funds through Family Services and Consumer Affairs is a significant amount. Would the minister be able to provide me with a breakdown of how those funds are allocated?

He's indicating that a significant amount of it is from the federal government, but I'd still like a breakdown of that allocation. Mr. Rondeau: Yes, it is a significant amount of money. I've been told it's all the youth employment programs for students–or youth at risk–so my memory does work from former portfolios–and we will get you a list, if that's okay, because it's rather extensive and, yes, it is $3.8 million. So we'll get you a list of all the programs that we do with that. Mrs. Rowat: And the transfer functions to Housing and Community Development, that $61,000? Mr.

Rondeau: We, originally, on the establishment of the ministry as a separate ministry, had a grant to Volunteer Manitoba, but that's fallen to the Minister of Housing and Community Development (Ms. Irvin-Ross). So we provided the money to Housing and Community Development because they have that responsibility for volunteers. Did you want the actual information on that? Mrs. Rowat: Yes, Mr. Chairperson, I would like a breakdown of each of those, actually, areas and how those dollars are allocated so I better understand the transitions of programs and grants, et cetera.

So I do know, you know, departments are fluid, and what I'm finding are departments are picking up different initiatives from different departments, and it would help me as a critic understand and let caucus know, when we're discussing something, whether it's my area or whether it's another department's–or another critic area. So it would be very useful. Mr. Rondeau: Part of the whole concept of the Healthy Child Committee and the organization is it's nine departments that are working together collectively to make sure that kids, youth, everything sort of works together. So I agree with the critic.

The–what we do do is we work with others, and so everyone works in different systems, and the whole concept of us is to work together, break down the barriers and collaborate on a bigger picture, and so I agree with you. So I'd be happy to provide you a list, because it is–get confusing because, you know, Education has certain parts, everyone has a little bit of a responsibility. So I agree with you. We'll provide you that material. Mrs. Rowat: In the

section under appropriation of–under Youth, page 39, there's a significant increase in expenditures. Actually, the budget looks like it's almost doubled, and that's a significant amount of money. * (10:30) Can the minister indicate to me if that is all new money or is that money that has been transferred from other departments or is that federal dollars? And I understand, based on a previous answer, that some of that is federal dollars. But I would like to know if the minister can indicate to me, of that $3 million, if he could indicate to me how that breaks down.

Actually, what I want to know is the allocation of funds more than what the programs are. I don't need details of the programs; we can get that at a later date. I really want to know how–where these dollars are being funnelled to, the title of the program and where those dollars are coming from. Mr. Rondeau: The grants are $667,000 for youth at risk, $145,000 for Manitoba Mentors, $215,000 for Green Team, $540,000 for COACH, $500,000 for Brighter Futures, and then we have some salaries and operating–the position directed to youth program enhancements, with 75 grand.

The remainder of all the other adjustments are $51,000. Operating was, through all of it, was about $512,000. Mrs. Rowat: In the subappropriation on page 41, the salaries section, we see a significant increase across the board, all except one area has seen an increase. Managerial has seen an increase of six; professional technology, one; admin support, 96; term, 68,000. Can the minister indicate to me, you know, I guess, sort of, why there's a significant increase, especially in admin support and term.

There seems to be an increase and–is there something that is developing in that area that we need to be aware of? Mr. Rondeau: Actually, in the Youth appropriation there's still only one manager. They do get a salary

1602 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 increase, so it's gone from $89,000 to $95,000. The professional-technical was six FTEs; it's still six FTEs. The administrative support was 17 people; it is still 17 people, but there was increase on salary. And the Term employees were 99.73, and they're 99.73. And so that is consistent between last year and this year. And so the FTEs ha ve remained absolutely constant from 123.73 to 123.73. And don't ask me why it's seven three. Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. Yesterday, in this

section of the Committee of Supply during the consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Culture, Heritage and Tourism, an incorrect dollar amount was accidentally read into the record when resolution 14.2 was passed. The resolution will now need to be put to the committee and adopted again to ensure that the correct dollar amount is passed and that the correct amount of funds are then attributed to that program area. I thank the committee for their patience with this matter.

Resolution 14.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $48,059,000 for Culture, Heritage and Tourism, Culture, Heritage and Tourism Programs, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2012. Resolution agreed to. Mrs. Rowat: And that's why I am asking where money goes from which department because, obviously, we're even having to incorporate other departments into our Estimates process. So what I had asked the minister wasn't with regard to the FTEs or the number of staff. What I'm seeing is about $170,000 increase in expenditures in dollars.

So the staffing has remained the same but there's been an increase of about $170,000 in salaries. So just wanting to know if the minister can explain that. Mr. Rondeau: Mr. Chairperson, there was a $75,000 increase in salary and benefits for one full-time equivalent approved to support the youth program enhancements, and then the rest was basically just the increase in pay and benefits. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister indicate to me what that position was within Youth that was $75,000–I'm understanding an increment increase, and if he could indicate to me who that person was and what their responsibilities are? Mr.

Rondeau: Mr. Chairperson, that program will be through–for MB4Youth. I understand it's going to be filled through competition. It hasn't been filled as of yet and the purpose of the position is to oversee the at-risk and mentorship programs that we have announced, and is in the budget here. Mrs. Rowat: So for clarification, Mr. Chairperson, can the minister indicate to me then, that was one position that was in place and they're just enhancing the roles and responsibilities of that position, or can they be more clear? Mr. Rondeau: It's going to be a new position that's established.

It's been established in year because what we want to do is we want to move forward these important programs. We have realized that the mentorship program will need additional support and we have moved forward with lots of at-risk programs so we will need further assistance to do that. Mrs. Rowat: So I'm assuming that this person would be–will be classified under the administrative support area or under the–or am I wrong and is it going to be a term position? Because there's a significant amount of money. Admin support has gone up $96,000; Term has gone up by $68,000.

I'm wanting to know where these dollars will be allocated for that position. * (10:40) Mr. Rondeau: I understand that the position, at present, is in the admin support line. However, it hasn't been classified yet so it could go into the professional-technical line depending on classification and the level of skills that the person needs to do the job. So right now we've identified we need more support. The process of classification is starting to happen now. Right now it is put in the admin support line.

It could theoretically move to the professional-technical line or be more attributed to that line should the position be classified accordingly, but right now we just have it under the Admin Support. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister then indicate to me what the increase in $68,000 for term employees would be? Mr. Rondeau: We actually have added a Québec exchange program to the program, and these people are considered term employ ees while they're on that, so that adds $68,000 to the program.

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1603 Mrs. Rowat: So these are additional individuals classified under the term. So there's–they would be part of the increase in staff numbers, is that correct? Like, I guess, can the minister explain to me what exactly the Québec program is, the number of individuals that are involved and I guess the general salary that these individuals would receive for whatever their roles and responsibilities would be in Manitoba. Mr. Rondeau: We were having an animated discussion about FTEs versus people. I'll tell you how many people participate.

There's 10 student employment positions, nine exchange participants who travel to Québec and one Manitoba-based student group leader who assists the incoming Québec exchange participants. I'm informed that they're at the STEP wages, which is a standardized government of–summer government employment program. I can find out what the STEP wages are, if you want to know, but I assume that they're around 10 bucks an hour or 10 to 15 bucks an hour. Mrs. Rowat: Okay, and I'd ask the minister if he could share with me a little bit more about that program. Like, is it–was it advertised?

How did individuals learn about the program and how long is that program for? Mr. Rondeau: If that's okay, what I'll do is I'll endeavour to get the materials precisely from the department and get it to you with the package of material following Estimates. Mrs. Rowat: And thank you to the minister for that. Under other expenditures, again we're looking at 500,000–or a $512,000 increase in other expenditures in the Youth area.

Can the minister indicate to me what those increases will be in each of the areas: transportation has seen an increase of $78,000; communications has seen an increase of $153,000; supplies and services an increase of $203,000; and other operating, $78,000. I'm wanting to know if the minister can indicate to me the reasons why there's been significant increases? Which programs under his Youth subappropriation would be receiving these dollars, and a breakdown of where these dollars are coming from. Are these new dollars? Have they been shared with other departments–from other departments?

And, I guess, it looks like there might be something that's being rolled out, if he can indicate to me if there's a program that's following the money. Mrs. Rowat: And so that I clearly understand what the consulting or consultant is actually going to be doing for the fees, I not only want the fees, but I'd also like to know the term s of the contract, who's leading the initiative through your department, as well as the consultant. And also sort of the framework for that initiative. I'd appreciate that. Mr.

Rondeau: We do have the breakdown by the operating–where the money's actually going and we're spending money on–the $512,000 for the youth enhancements. I am informed that most of this is at the at-risk youth programs, which is, again, the cost-shared program from the feds, et cetera. And the Manitoba Mentors program, which was announced, where we're trying to get a number of–well, actually, we're trying to get all students to have a mentor in Manitoba and provide the benefits of that. And I mentioned that in my opening statement.

Here's the additions: one is we have about $300,000–no, we have $300,000 for increased evaluation; we have $125,000 in consulting and developing the program; the resource development is $75,000; and the general operating has gone up $12,000. And so that's the function by which they are increasing. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister share with me who has been hired to do the consulting work for this–these initiatives or is it just going to tender? Mr.

Rondeau: A g a i n , f r o m m y p a s t r o l e s , i t ' s t h e association for sector coun cils, and they're actually delivering and developing a lot of the programs to create it. The sector coun cils–we have a number of sector councils, a nd they are sort of the industry representative and the go-between between education and the industry. And we have contracted with them to sort of develop the mentorship program and work on the delivery of the program. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister indicate to me what the fees are that you'll be paying to the consulting firm? Mr.

Rondeau: We'll get that to the honourable member, Mr. Chair. I want to be absolute precise on it. So we will get that to you. With regard to evaluation, can the minister indicate to me what he means by enhanced evaluation? What exactly does that mean? * (10:50) Mr. Rondeau: I'll describe to the member a little bit about this whole mentoring program because it–the

1604 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 Premier's Economic Advisory Council actually suggested that we develop a mentoring program to make sure kids have–kids–youth have support, and an idea of employment and personal support and all that. So we've been following that model.

We're working with the sector councils to deliver that model in the first gyration, and the goal is to set up a number of pilot programs and also work with what's already existing in schools and in the community on these mentorship programs, because some are more employment, some are more personal, and so that's what we're doing with the sector advisory councils–sector councils, sorry. And so we're rolling that out this spring. We've also been engaged with a lot of what's going on in the schools and I think that's important.

Now, we have also worked to develop an evaluation to see which is the best, most appropriate, most effective mentorship program out of that initiative. So what we're doing is we're working with the sector councils, coming up with some ideas, coming up with a pilot with a number of schools in different gyrations. And then what we're doing is evaluating that and then we will work with–in the future to roll that out to as many schools as possible and many groups as possible in what's effective.

So the 300–is it $300,000–for the evaluation money will be utilized to look at these on an ongoing basis this year and then come up with the best practice that we will unroll to other schools and other communities. Mrs. Rowat: Can you tell me–thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the minister indicate to me what tools he's using in the evaluation? Mr. Rondeau: We have a whole pile of things on evaluation. We are starting to work with a lot of external agencies on evaluation, whether it's the Family First evaluation, or the home visitor evaluation or Roots of Empathy. What we're doing is we're looking at a number of factors.

Now I'll tell you–because we're still working through this program on mentorship I'll talk to you a little bit about just the home–Family First home visitor program. Basically, started in 1988, but we have moved forward on it since then and we basically have visitors going into the houses. So we had an external review of it. We looked at a number of things. In this case we looked at parents' newborns, increased positive parenting behaviours, parents' well-being, family social support, neighbourhood connectiveness, and then we released a very, very detailed report in June 2010. It's on the website.

And what we tried to do is figure out all the measured outcomes. On the mentorship program, what we have to do is we have to look at multiple social competencies and outcomes that we want from the kids. That might be increased stay in school. It might be increased idea of where they want to go in the future. Might be whether they have higher marks. So, right now, we're working with evaluators to say what are the outcomes and how are we going to attain the outcomes.

I can inform the member that we haven't finished with the evaluation tool yet and we're still negotiating with the sector councils on the program and how it's rolling out. So, although, we have the initial pilot going, I envision the evaluation to be ongoing for at least the year, and I just gave you a few. The other one might be attendance at school. The other one might be just how many people go on to post-secondary education in the appropriate direction, and that's where we're–I anticipate the evaluation to go so far. Mrs. Rowat: The minister indicated there's a pilot already in place. Where is that? Mr.

Rondeau: We anticipate it'll envision–or involve about 500 kids. We are still in the process of finalizing the schools that will be involved. We envision that it would be a variety of schools, not just one specific school. Here's the line: Schools will be selected to ensure a balance of urban, rural and northern communities, at least one French francophone school and one high school, and we a l s o w a n t t o m a k e s u r e t h a t t h e M a n i t o b a demographic–all demographics are involved.

So we're working on that within the 500 people, and I can also inform the member we're also working with the sector councils to find the mentors so that we're now working with the companies, we're working with the schools, and we're trying to look at a variety of demographics and at-risk factors and students. So then we find out what we want to accomplish. This year is meant as a trial year, a pilot, where we try it out. I think it's a great concept. I think everyone deals well with a mentor, regardless of age, so I don't think it's just youth, and I think that by having a good evaluation, we can move forward.

And, by the way, Mr. Chair, if the honourable member has any suggestions on things that we should evaluate, I'd be happy to receive her suggestions on the criteria we should evaluate for the

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1605 mentorship program because we truly want to make it work. Mrs. Rowat: The minister had indicated earlier that there was a pilot already in place. So that's not correct. It's a pilot that is coming or is there already something in place? Mr. Rondeau: There is programs that are mentorship programs and employment programs throughout the province now in small pieces. I know I had worked one in Frontier School Division, but they're small. They're very limited in scope, limited in numbers, et cetera. This pilot that we're working on now, we're developing it now.

It's in process of being developed. The discussions with the sector councils have, basically, finished so that they're now moving forward on their part of it . Discussions with schools are ongoing. So, when I say there's a pilot, it's in development, but it's also taking into consideration what present schools are doing, and so that's always interesting. And there's a whole variety of mentorships, everything from Big Brothers Big Sisters, to school divisions, to individual schools, and so we want to take all the positive factors into account. Mrs.

Rowat: So this pilot will be based on–the comments made by the minister, Mr. Chair, are that this pilot will be in place this spring. The evaluation tools and what–the expectation of what this pilot will do are not complete; that's still fluid. I would hope that you're going to want to know what your target outcomes are before you roll out a significant project such as this. I have two teenagers, 17 and 15, so I totally get the concept of mentorship and ensuring that, you know, they are focused on their future. So the concept is fine with me.

I have no issue, and I think any parent that has children understands that that's an important tool. However, I want to ensure that the programs that are going to be implemented within the province with this amount of money, with this amount of investment, actually are going to be–have positive outcomes, have some benchmarks that are going to be followed. We have an unbelievab le career counsellor in our school. We're blessed within our school.

She's amazing, and I do know that that's not, you know, an asset that every school has, you know, and I believe that whatever we can do to encourage and support students to move forward, it's an overwhelming position to be in as a young person. So I'm interested in this. I'm very interested in making sure that it is successful. I'm a true believer in evaluation and outcomes. The minister would know that based on my past give and take with the minister and the department.

So I will be following this very closely and looking for it to be as successful as the minister says. * (11:00) With regard to Healthy Child Manitoba office, again, that's in the Estimate books. We'll be going through just some of the line by line there on page 45. With regard to those budget items, there's an increase in expenditures–or other expenditures, $73,000 in supplies and services and an increase in other operating of approximately $41,000.

Can the minister give me some background on those expenditures in detail, what those supplies and services increases would be and what those operating expenditures would be? Mr. Rondeau: I'd like to thank the critic, and, by the way, I fully agree in the evaluation and outcomes. And that's why I gave a suggestion that if you have certain benchmarks that you want to see that are definitely included–I know I have some, which is focus on the future, an actual plan, increased attendance in school, benchmarks on stay-in-school programs and making sure that the retention and focus is better.

Those are the things that I want to see. If you have actual outcomes that–and you want to talk to your career guidance counsellor at your school and feed into the system as the outcomes, I think this is a non-partisan thing that we can agree fully on, that a kid–a young person, sorry, who has a focus on the future is–you can't stop them; they're focused. A kid that doesn't see the future and doesn't see a plan or where they're going is not good. So I agree with you. I think the mentorship will be a useful tool if we do it right, and if you want to feed in some outcomes, I'm open to that.

As far as the increased money, I can say that it's for FASD programming, but we haven't allocated the actual specific where it's going at the time of the printing of the Estimates. Mrs. Rowat: So, the other operating–and I always find that interesting because that seems to be just a–almost like a barrel that you just throw things into–other operating, can you indicate to me what

1606 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 that category, what kind of things would be considered in–under other operating? There's an increase in $41,000 in there, so I really would like to just have a sense of what that category picks up. Mr. Rondeau: It's everything from employee training to computer-relate d costs, insurance costs, the publications. You know, it's the Other category.

I can tell the member, specifically, one of the things we're trying very, very hard to do, which has been a challenge, is on the Healthy Child, Healthy Baby programs, hitting tough-to-reach communities, communities that don't have daily newspapers, communities that are new Canadians. And that's been a challenge to try to engage those, and so I've directed the department to sort of get more out into the community. One of the things that I really wanted to do is make sure that all people who are eligible for the prenatal benefit get it, and that's hard because it's hard to reach in all communities.

And so we continue to do that, and also we're trying to work really, really hard on positive parenting programs and communications like that so that we get people to understand the services related and access. And so I can say that I've given direction to the department to get out there and get the message out there especially in the hard-to-reach communities. Mrs. Rowat: If the minister can indicate to me what the $41,000 in other operating has been targeted to, if–is it one specific project like FASD, or is it for various initiatives? Mr. Rondeau: It's disbursed among all those categories.

So it could be training. It is also communication. It's a number of things. Mrs. Rowat: Under the subappropriation,

section 34.3, page 37, Seniors and Healthy Aging, we've seen a 2 per cent decrease in the operating budget allocated to Seniors and Healthy Aging. That's about a reduction of 1.4 per cent of expenditures in the department. You know, that's a conc ern. We're seeing an increase in elder abuse. We're seeing seniors who are facing safety issues within their homes, within, obviously, personal care homes. We've seen some recent incidences in the me dia, and I'm just wanting to know where the minister will be focusing his attention within the Seniors and Healthy Aging portfolio.

With a reduced budget in that area, there's going to have to be some very strategic interest in specific areas, and I'm just wanting to know if the minister can indicate to me where that interest and support will be, and we'll leave it at that. I've got a few more questions in that area. Mr. Rondeau: I can tell you where we're focusing on. I can say that I'm very, very pleased with where we've gone with the Elder Abuse Strategy. We have increased suites. We've got a 24/7 hour line.

We've got a lot of groups that are talking about, lots of people in the field that are more educated so they identify it and then can take action. I am pleased with that. As far as age-friendly, we have basically about 72–no, 80 per cent of our communities are now moving towards being age-friendly, which is huge because that means that you have the supports and services for people who age in place, and I'm very, very proud of that. And I'm pleased that Manitoba's a Canadian and world leader on age-friendly.

As far as SafetyAid, I'm pleased the Speech from the Throne has talked about SafetyAid and expansions of SafetyAid. When I was first Minister of Healthy Living way back in 2004, we talked–we instituted the SafetyAid program. It basically goes into seniors' homes and does an evaluation, talks about how to prevent injury, and I'm pleased to see that we've had about a thousand to 1,400 people a year dealt with. And this is really prevention at its best and, by the way, for low-income people the SafetyAid people actually make the renovations that are necessary.

We're continuing to move forward on the in motion and–especially with the senior community, where we get seniors active. We're doing lots with ALCOA and trying to expand healthy living and activity for seniors. And the final thing what we're trying to do is make sure that we have other departments engaged. So we are now talking with Housing and other departments on housing for seniors, which I'm very, very pleased our province is continuing. I'm pleased to continue to look at home care and move forward that, and we're also looking at other services.

Now, the–in response to the decrease in salaries, I'm pleased that Jim Hamilton, the former executive director, is now working in the university, and I saw him the other day; he's happy as heck. But because we did have a new executive director and Jim was at max, the new ED isn't paid the same. There has been other staff that have left for retirement, or left, and

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1607 they've been filled at a lower step because they're starting their careers. And so I've been informed that there's exactly the same full-time equivalent. The staffing level remains at 10 FTEs, and so it was not a decrease in actual service. We continue to expand services for seniors in this department and in others. It was just a change because people started at a lower step or were replaced and people are starting their careers as ED. And, by the way, I'd to say Patti's doing a fabulous job. Mrs.

Rowat: But we are still seeing a 2 per cent decrease in the operating budget of–allocated towards seniors and a reduction of 1.4 per cent of expenditures in the department, so, based on increase in funding in other departments, we're seeing this one flat-lined and remaining the same. * (11:10) And, again, the minister's talked about home care and talked about senior assisted living and talked about personal care homes. All of these have very, very, very–they're at–they're reading–reaching their max in concerns and needs, Mr. Chair.

So when the minister speaks about the things that they're doing, there are still a lot of things that need to be done. We have people that have been waiting for months to get into a personal care home. We have acute care beds being taken up by people who are needing to get into personal care homes. We're seeing families have to travel up to an hour or two hours to visit family in personal care homes in other communities. We're seeing elder abuse increase.

We're seeing, in the community of–within Westman itself we've seen, in the media, you know, requests for more supports and more recognition of the need to have a more co-ordinated effort in dealing with elder abuse in the community. So there are a number of things that need to be done in this area. So, wh en I see a reduction in expenditures in this department, compared to other areas, I just want to ensure that the minister is aware that there continues to be a number of things that need to be done in this area. And we need to keep it at the forefront with this government.

So I appreciate that the minister is aware that there has been a reduction, but I also know that he is aware that we're–we'll continue to push for the concerns and the well-being of seniors throughout the province and we'll continue to monitor how things unfold over the next year based on the expenditures that are allocated for this area. The next area that I'd like to talk about would be addictions. The minister has indicated that there was–or has, I guess, recently announced or announced in 2008, I guess, not recent, a five-point plan with regard to addictions.

And we've seen, you know, the AFM act passed, and that seems to be one point in the five-point strategy. I'd like to just talk to the minister a little bit more about the future of this plan and sort of where it's gone to this point and just how he feels it's rolling out and maybe some of the objectives that he has over the next short period. I understand that Nicole Laping was hired to create the five-point plan, and her contract finished in the fall, I believe. So I'm just wanting to know, you know, the work that's been done and look at how this government is doing with regard to co-ordinating services.

Because that's what we're hearing, is that there's services out there. There's obviously some weaknesses with regard to beds for adults, youth, and, you know, but we also need to look at a better co-ordinated effort not only within the Department of Healthy Living but also how they tie into health-care services and support such as mental health and acute and primary care. So what I am going to ask the minister is if he would be able to provide me with some of the specific projects that he's been planning to implement or has implemented through the five-point plan, and then we'll go from there. Mr.

Rondeau: First, Mr. Chair, I'll respond to the Seniors and Healthy Aging discussion. I'd like to refer the member to page 37 where, actually, the only decrease was from $729,000 to $701,000 on the salaries. If you look at it, transportation remains the same, communications remain the same, (

e) supplies and services remain the same, other operating remain the same. And I would refer the member to the other external agencies, and these are agencies that are out in the community that we work with in partnership, things like ALCOA, the Active Living Coalition–I talked about keeping people active; Manitoba Association of Seniors Centres; Creative Retirement; FAFM; Aboriginal Senior Centre; Transportation Working Group, et cetera. All have moved forward. The SafetyAid program has increased in this budget. Elder abuse, I am pleased to say that we

1608 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 actually have a strategy. That didn't occur prior to this. In 2003-2004 it started. We now have a phone line 24/7. We actually have contracts with external agencies that talk to community groups, et cetera. We actually have two safe suites and we actually have the supports out in the community. So, I actually disagree fully with the member when they say there's more elder abuse now. I think what we have done is we've actually identified it.

We've have communications with the federal government, we set up a system where we talk about elder abuse, we talk about the supports, we talk about identifying and taking action, we talk about working with other groups and agencies. And, you know what? I'm proud of that. Why? Because I think it's important if you have a problem, you discuss it, you put it out there and you set up the services and supports. So, I believe that it's sad to say that there has been elder abuse.

I'm pleased to say that we have the supports, the discussions, the people out there that identify it, take action and we actually have a comprehensive strategy that takes action. So, I differ with the member opposite, saying we don't believe in this. We have, and in the whole idea of my department, things like SafetyAid are important. I think we–the increase throughout Manitoba is very, very important. Now, as far as addictions, I'll tell you where we're working right now. As far as co-ordinating services, I actually agree with the member.

We do need to co-ordinate the services, so we're actually looking at centralized intake, we're talking about communication services and bringing groups together, we're talking about having an easier way in. I think that we have jewels in the addictions services, I think we have fabulous departments, and I do believe that we do need the co-ordination and we're working on the centralized intake and co-ordination. The methadone strategy, we talked about it last year as far as expanding it, expanding services not just in one location. We ta lked about the decrease of prescriptions.

We need to do that and we are–that strategy's moving forward. We also need to enhance certain services. I was really excited to open up the facility in Selkirk, and I invite the member opposite; it's nice and it's good. I think that's very, very positive. And I think that we have to continue to work on prevention programs. I'm pleased that we have 57 schools participating in the AFM program.

And so, those are the things we have to do, and I'm pleased we also work with other departments to do transitional housing, to do supportive support, and I think we also have to continue to work with external agencies to cont inue to strengthen the system. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairperson. Mrs. Rowat: And, yes, I've been to Selkirk. Actually, I've raised questions in the House to the minister, actually, with regard to the Selkirk facility and encouraging the government to get moving on that facility, and agree that it's amazing facility.

And when you drive up the lane and see the trees and the serene environment, what a better place to be than–at a site like that, where you can actually feel the positive environment just from driving into the yard. So I agree that that site is an amazing addition to our province. But, with regard to a number of other things, there are several goals that were identified by the minister, and I guess what I'm looking for is a timeline on some of those initiatives.

The minister has indicated that centralized intake–can the minister indicate to me–I know that's a–that was federal dollars that were allocated to the Province to develop a centralized assessment unit and, you know, good on the feds for doing that, because I think that's a big piece that Manitoba's missing. And it's a–it's an important piece to help unify or co-ordinate the services that are required within our province. Can the minister indicate to me what the status is of that? Because I believe that the last information I have on it that–was that you were exploring the development of that.

We had a briefing; I appreciated the briefing with staff who updated me on some of the things that are going to be laid out with that assessment tool. So I'm just wanting to know what the status is of that and, I guess, looking at where you're at with regard to provincial stan dards for the intake and assessment processes for the adult and youth. And then, looking at how the Province is going to be navigating the support intake, province-wide, because it's not going to only be something that's going to be used by Winnipeg or within the Perimeter.

It's going to have to be utilized and supported and believed in by residents from all parts of the province. So if the minister can just give me an update on that. * (11:20)

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1609 Mr. Rondeau: I can tell you where we're gone with that. We actually have technology or software package that has been discussed among all the people involved. I think they've actually settled on a technology package which is really pleased. They've been meeting on a regular basis to say how do we do this? How do we communicate between each other? How do we refer? And so those meetings are ongoing. I think we've settled on a technology package and process on tweaking what they have there. I can tell you that we're now looking at a little bit of a stepped approach.

We didn't want to–it becomes difficult to get everybody on board all at once so now they're looking at a stepped approach, and I'm actually pleased that we're looking at moving forward to do this in the very, very near term. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister be a little more specific? Would that be the next three months, one month, six months? Mr. Rondeau: I would love to be more specific but I can't be because it's not me directing it. What we're trying to do is get 12 external agencies to buy into the system and buy into the timetable. This is one of those things that we want them to work together.

So it's not top-down approach, thou shall and here's the timeline. We've asking for co-operation with the 12 agencies, and it's not just 12 agencies in the city. It's all across–and I agree with you–and we also actually have to make sure that the technological thing works everywhere in the province. That means Internet connectivity, making sure that technology's available. I can tell you that we want to start this process as soon as humanly possible. I'm hoping that it will be sometime soon, but again, what we're dealing with is it's not the department saying thou shalt do this by this time.

It's like, let's work together to unroll it in the step process that they have agreed to. And I would like to publicly say thank you to the feds. I know we don't often do this but I'd like to say publicly, thank you to the feds. The Public Health Agency of Canada did step up. We identified that we have some wonderful programs, amazing programs, in this province, but there was no connectivity and discussion and integration. They stepped up. They provided $2 million to move this forward, and I'd like to publicly thank them. Mrs.

Rowat: The minister spoke about the technology piece or the tool that will be able to connect. What I'd like to know now is more about standards. You know, you're creating provincial standards for the intake an d assessment process for adults and youth. Can you explain to me what exactly that means and what–how you see that unrolling? Mr. Rondeau: I'm pleased to say my deputy was able to do that. It's going to have a common triage system so that people answers common questions to deal with the emergency system. It'll have common assessments.

It'll have a common track list, and it'll have a communication system between the different parties. Mrs. Rowat: So that I'm clear, so if somebody will call in, so what we will–what the provincial standards for intake will be is determining what type of issues are being identified, then determine what resources are available and that type of thing. So that's a huge process. But this will also help with tracking and identifying wh ere the needs are within the community.

So I'm very interested to know, you know, more about that process and actually, as it unfolds, learning more about that type of system that's going to be developed. Mr. Rondeau: I would endeavour to give you a briefing on it. The trouble is it's not–we're not going to be able to deal with it on Estimates. If you want a briefing in the future, we can talk about bringing you a briefing as the system unrolls. Again, it's not a partisan event. This is something that I expect all governments will continue in the long term, so maybe four, eight, 10, 12 years, God knows. Mrs.

Rowat: And the minister is saying, you know, a timeline, and we can smile and understand that this is a huge undertaking, but we also have so many families out there that are looking for some leadership on this. So I'm wanting to just put on the record that the minister knows I get calls, as well as his office, and I want to, you know, or thank staff within his department who work with people–families who are desperate for help.

And I know, you know, there are many times where–that we are trying to do our best to make sure that families know that we care, No. 1; No. 2, try to help find the resources that are in place, because there are not–they are not co-ordinated. We have–like you said, great services and supports out there; we often don't know what those are or whether they're available. There are wait times, so we have to figure out a way to address that. We see that in

1610 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 health care; we see that in mental health; we see that in addictions. So we need to be addressing that. So I'm very interested in–on behalf of the people that we try to help within the province who are facing addictions, families that are trying to help loved ones move through the process of recovery, so we really need to be looking at this and aggressively moving forward on the needs of this.

With regard to addictions services, still, we're looking at, you know, again residential treatment, and just wanting to know if the minister can give me an update on the River Point Centre. I believe that might now be under Housing, but I know that there's still a tie-in to Healthy Living, and I'd appreciate whatever information the minister can provide for me on this multi-agency treatment facility that is being proposed for Manitoba. And I understand it's 2012. If it is going to be in operation prior to 2012, I'd love to hear that as good news, but, you know, again I'd just like an update on that. Mr.

Rondeau: I can tell the member on the intake process, there will be a triage function. There will also be–we will try to work on the system where there is no wrong door; you can come in any door and get referred to the appropriate surface–service, sorry. I agree it will be able to identify wait times; it'll also help people navigate the system. So those are the basic concepts, and we are in total agreement that we need to do this and it will help all Manitobans to have that program. So I'm very, very excited about it, and I'm very pleased that we've been able to move forward quickly on it. So that's that.

As far as River Point, what's happened is that so far there's been–the roof has been repaired. We've got the architects finalizing the schematic design to make sure that all of it's done out. So we've had communications with the different partners that'll be utilizing River Point Centre. We've got a basic schematic design to make sure that everyone has enough space and they're reasonably happy. And Housing, right now, is dealing with–and I can't speak for Housing, bu t I think they're dealing with all the renovations and the physical structure.

We're actually–have been working with the different partners who will be there to actually say what are–finalizing the service requirements and the actual design of the space that they will occupy to provide services out of that location. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister indicate to me: Is his department still responsible for the monthly maintenance of that building? Mr. Rondeau: No. It's Housing. I'll tell you–did you want to know the services out of there–that we're anticipating out of there? Okay. Darn, I had the list. Mrs.

Rowat: So, as for the maintenance and upkeep of the building, you're out of the picture on that, but there's another department that is got that responsibility, and I'm understanding it's Housing.

So the dollars that are allocated in Healthy Living are now actually going to be used for what I believe is what it needs to be used for–is addressing the needs of the clients in the province. * (11:30) With regard to FASD, that's goal four within your five-point plan, and you talked briefly about having dollars allocated–and I'm trying to remember where that was, but I believe it was under Youth or, no, it was under Healthy Living or Healthy Child, I believe. An Honourable Member: Healthy Child. Mrs. Rowat: Healthy Child.

The minister had indicated that you're going to be rolling out or looking at a program, and I believe that there's going to be a strategy, is what the Province has said there's going to be. Can you indicate to me where you're at with regard to this strategy because it is–my understanding, based on media reports, is that it's a $10.5-million-per-year program. Is all $10.5 million going to be used for the strategy, or is that the budget with the community-based programs as a whole? And how much of that money was actually federal dollars? Mr. Rondeau: I'll start with the strategy.

We've actually rolled out a very comprehensive strategy. It's got Justice and Education, all of us, Health, everyone working together. We have the strategy; it's been done. The $10.5 million, $12 million that is the actual programs for FASD is–again, it's very, very cross-departmental. It's not just in the Healthy Living Department. It's in Health; it's in Education; it's in Family Services, in all sorts of different groups.

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1611 So I apologize because I can't speak to all of them. I'll go through some of the programs that we're funding and–as our part. Now, I apologize to the critic because it is confusing because each department has a slice of this very comprehensive strategy, and, actually, the ministers who–we have a group of western ministers that meet on FASD. It is a fabulous group. We work together; we co-operate; we're moving it forward. Here's some of the things we're doing. I'm pleased to see in this department we've got the–it says that we have about $12 million.

It's got diagnostic services. It's got programs like InSight, which is to stop FASD. That one was really exciting. If you ever want to check out that, that's unbelievable. It's–InSight, it's an evidence-based program. It's an intensive case-management program that provides services to women who are pregnant or recently gave birth, who have had alcohol or drug use. It's currently operating in seven Manitoba communities with the capacity to support 240 women at any given time. It follows for people with–abo ut three years. It's an intensive program and then follows them and supports them.

Here's the neat thing: Evaluation results–and I know you're into evaluations–show that upon exiting, 66 per cent of women are either using reliable birth control, are abstinent from alcohol and that 75 per cent of subsequent births are not exposed to alcohol during pregnancy. And, in addition, 59 per cent of targeted children are living with the biological family. When we gave these results to the Northwest FASD Ministers' committee, they were excited. The other programs–and by the way, I'm very, very excited that we have expanded that drastically.

We also have things like Stepping Out on Saturdays, which helps parents that have children with FASD and supports the children. We have the family support for FASD. We have Building Circles of Support which is a eight-week parenting information services offered to parents or caregivers of children with FASD. We have some classrooms, David Livingtone FASD classroom, which I've actually seen. It's absolutely amazing, and we have some research going on to see how we can move forward on this. And, of course, there's more diagnostics. There's support throughout the entire province.

So I'm pleased where we went on this. I know when–back in 2004, it wasn't on the agenda. I can remember the First Ministers' meeting. I think we've gone a long way. Mrs. Rowat: And, you know, I agree and I believe that, you know, all members within the House agree that, you know, that catching FASD as early as possible can, you know, reduce so much the expectation, the cost through the school system, through the justice system, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm very interested to know, you know, where these dollars are allocated and how they're making a difference within the province.

I'm wanting to know if the minister would just provide his comments with regard to–Winnipeg FASD physician Albert Chudley talked about a national screening system for fetal alcohol effects as well as screening for the risk of maternal drinking. That was an

article in April of this year. You know, I think his thoughts are interesting, and I'm just wanting to know if–where the Province is with regard to his thoughts. Because, you know, ideally, prevention is where we want to be, but we need to be identifying. So I just wanted to know what the minister thinks with regard to the comments made by Dr. Chudley with regard to a national screening system. Mr. Rondeau: And, again, it's kind of scary because I agree with the member opposite that FASD is–that the prevention is where we want to hit.

And a lot of what we're doing is pr evention, pr evention, prevention, especially in FASD. It's interesting because we do have a diagnosis network for FASD. There's a difference between diagnosis and screening. It's interesting that the feds are finally getting involved more into FASD. I think it is a national issue and it should be a national issue. I have tried to, sort of, engage more than just the northwest. The northwest seems to be very, very, very engaged.

And I would hope that the feds, all provinces, everywhere, need to be engaged in this strategy, whether it's prevention, detection, screening, and so– For me, though, my focus continues to be, as much as possible, the prevention and education. I understand that each RHA is involved in the diagnostic network and we would like to continue to move forward. But for me, focus has been prevention and also on working with people who have been identified through the diagnostic network and their

1612 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 families to make sure that we improve their standard of life and they can be what they can be. Mrs. Rowat: Just raised a thought. Can the minister indicate to me if he has statistics on the number of FASD children or individuals who are affected with FASD in Manitoba? Mr. Rondeau: There's just estimates. The difficulty of FASD and FA–is that it's a spectrum disorder. And so, although there's estimates and there's some huge estimates and lesser estimates, we have been focusing not on specific numbers; we've been focusing on (

a) the prevention and (

b) those who have been diagnosed through our system, to get supports to the families and to the individuals. So, we haven't been working on the numbers, and that becomes really, really hard on a spectrum disorder, because you may have the effect or you have a large effect or a small effect, and so it becomes really, really hard to measure.

And so, for us, we've looked at things like Stepping Out on Saturdays, which works with the kids and the parents to build the capacity and the ability with the kids and their parents, giving them the support and time for the people who've been affected. * (11:40) And then we've been working on the diagnosis network, I understand, from Health. You'd have to get all the details from Health–I'm sorry. But, then, also, what we've been doing is looking at the most at-risk populations.

And so, here's an example: When a women wishes to get addiction treatment and they are at risk, we will get them in the door as quickly as humanly possible. That's why I was so excited about the Selkirk facility. It's not directly related to FASD, but it could be, and so it's a big perspective, and so we've been focusing on the FASD through women's addiction, increased ca pacity and the InSight program, and they seem to be working. In fact, I've–we've had huge interest from other provinces on InSight, huge. Mrs. Rowat: If other provinces have an interest in how Manitoba's doing, the minister may have this stat.

How many children are diagnosed–or how many children diagnosed with FASD qualify for an education assistance or EA in school? Do you have any idea of how? Mr. Rondeau: Sorry. Department of Education; I don't know. Mrs. Rowat: I just thought I would ask, just seeing that there's definitely a keen interest and just wanting to know if we can–if we have that type of statistics available across departments. With regard to FASD, this, you know, what we're finding are that there are increasing costs, not only on social aspects, but also now within the jail system.

And I know that there are lawyers and judges who have indicated that there would–they would like to see a screening process for kids in care, as well as kids who are facing, you know, incarceration, whether it be jail or whether it be in facilities for teens. So we're wanting to know what type of supports the Province is looking at to, you know, automatically look for FASD in these types of situations, if there is a program or if there is a movement towards doing that. Mr. Rondeau: Mr. Chairperson, I understand that there is a program through Justice, youth justice program, but I don't know exactly about it.

Again, that would have to be requested through the Justice Minister. The difficulty with some of these strategies is it's not in Healthy Living. We work with others. So, although we–like Health does the diagnostic tools through RHAs. Justice does the diagnostic tools through the youth justice system. We just co-ordinate the strategy and deliver some of the programs. Mrs. Rowat: I just thought, based on being the chair of the Healthy Child initiative, that you would actually be able to provide some insight on how other departments are moving forward on some of these things. We all want to see better outcomes.

So my questions are relevant to what I'm hearing out there, what families are telling me, what teachers are telling me, what, you know , lawyers and–et cetera are telling me. There's a keen interest from the community at large for a better system than what we have in place within the province to address FASD. So I'm looking forward to seeing how the Province moves forward on that and, again, stating that, we have a lot of families, a lot of people in the community that, at large, who want to see some improvements and, actually, some identification of how to move forward.

With regard to wait times with addictions, if the minister would be–and I'm trying to find my information on stats–can the minister indicate to me what the wait times are across the board with regard to adult youth–or adult men, adult women and youth with regard to wait times? If you could–I would like, actually, a breakdown of, if you have it, from

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1613 January, February, March, April. I don't know if you'd have April stats yet. But if you could provide me with the general wait times in those areas, and then also, with regard to the different sectors, in-patient wait times, transition bed wait times. I know that's something that may have to come through correspondence, which you have in the past, and I appreciate it, because it keeps me up to speed on, you know, the challenges and then helps me identify where I could be pushing the minister to be doing something. Mr.

Rondeau: In response to your discussion on FASD, I agree with you. I think we want to continue with the whole spectrum on FASD, and we will continue to do that. I'm pleased with where we've gone, and I do have to–I would love to be able to comment on other minister's books, but that's definitely going to get me in troubles. So all I can say is that it is everywhere. And so if you had an opportunity to talk to almost every minister, they would be commenting on what they were doing with FASD. I'm pleased to say that it isn't just us; it's across the board, and I'm pleased to see how it's–the strategy's rolled up.

And I agree with the member; I think it's a non-partisan issue. We all want more prevention; we want to move forward on the FASD. And I'm pleased how the northwest strategy works, and if you have contacts with the feds and other provinces–I'd like to see this as a national issue. I think Canada could be a leader. As far as the wait times on addictions, you're absolutely right. I don't have it on my fingertips. I'll tell you, I really believe that the centralized intake will be a wonderful tool to (

a) identify, and (

b) make sure that there's not duplication on lists because I can't tell you whether ther e's duplication on lists. So somebody might be on three lists. So I think the centralized intake will be a tool to better utilize the system, get people to refer it to the proper swat or care or treatment package. And so the frustrating part about addictions is I can't tell you whether one person's on two, three, five lists. And so that's the sad part of the system; we will have that. And that's one of the things that I really am looking forward to.

And I will make a commitment to get you the wait lists as they currently exist. Mrs. Rowat: I agree with the minister with regard to, you know, clients being on two or three lists. When you create a list, people are going to try to find the shortest list possible. So, of course, people are going to look and put their names forward on two or three lists. So a co-ordinated effort, obviously, is a no-brainer with regard to that, and we need to make that happen, again, saying we need that to be happening sooner rather than later.

One area in addictions, before I move on to another area, is one that's really close to me, and that's addictions and the school-based programs. And I want to know: Have you revisited that, and have you, you know, looked at increasing that program within schools? Because, you know, I come from a rural area. I have family that live in the northern area of Manitoba, and we've had this discussion at the table even about the supports that are needed within communities.

If you have a 15-year-old who has either a family member who's having addiction issues or they themselves are having addictions issues, if you don't provide that type of support in the school system, they're pr etty limited about where they're going to be able to provide or get access to those types of supports. So I'm–I–and I'm, you know, been talking to a principal in one of the communities in–near Riding Mountain–Erickson–and, you know, talked about the need for a program there. You know, he would love to see additional supports available for his youth.

You know, he is doing everything in his power to ensure that kids stay in school, to work with the families if he's identifying a need. You know, he's doing everything he can to ensure that they get the best possible options within the school system and within their families. But he does not have the supports available for him through a school-based program. So I really would like to see the minister, in his response right away, tell me, yes, we're providing additional supports for school-based programs. Anyways, opening it up to the minister. Mr. Rondeau: And, again, this has been a focus of mine.

I continue to try to figure out how we do this better and more and squeeze the nickel to make it a quarter or whatever. * (11:50) The program is delivered generally in co-operation with school divisions. We're in–right currently we're in 21 school divisions across the Manitoba. I'm pleased to tell the member, most recently in January 2011, another school–three schools started on-site AFM services. So we have expanded them. And the annual funding is 1.175–almost $1.2 million.

1614 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 I can tell the member that I actually talked to the AFM board and–yesterday–and we started saying, how do we–we, as being everyone, continue to roll out prevention and services to kids. It is a priority of mine and we will continue to see how we can deliver it. I agree with you. I think that (

a) you want to prevent a problem. The second-best scenario is when a problem's developing to get at it quickly. We have been trying to do that and figure out how to get it to all schools and all people and actually, we've been in communications with the school divisions saying, how do we work together? Because I think that that makes sense. So it is $1.175 million. We want to continue it and it has expanded in three new schools– An Honourable Member: Which ones? Could you name them? Mr. Rondeau: Oh, sheez, you had to ask that. I don't know. I'll get back to the member on which schools it is.

I know that we've been in discussions with lots of schools. I believe that, if memory serves me correctly–and I usually shouldn't do this–I think there's 57 schools across the province that we're in. That's a lot of schools because we're not in many elementary schools. What we are in is high schools, generally, and I–by the way, I have actually talked to them about how we can work better and we will be in discussions. If you give me the number of the–the name of that principal or the school division, we'll try to endeavour to follow up to s ee if there's a partnership we can work with. Mrs.

Rowat: The teacher is Barry Lee; it's at Erickson School and it's in Rolling River School Division. With regard to the process to track the progress of students and youth who attend meetings and sessions through the school, is there–are you tracking that information because–[interjection] or somebody within the department is, hopefully, tracking the progress of students, because we want to make sure–again, there's my evaluation piece.

We want to make sure that the programs actually are providing the needs that they are indicating that they are providing, and we need to make sure that if there is a huge increase in need, then we need to be looking at this a little bit differently. Mr. Rondeau: I just wanted to give a little bit of historical framework. In 2000, we were in 16 schools around the province and now we're in 57. I know we're not perfect. It is expanding; it will continue to expand, hopefully, and we have really, really increased.

And the other stat that's interesting is, since '99, the area–in this area of students, it's increased 115 per cent. So we are interested in doing it. One of the things that's tough, though, is it isn't a cookie-cutter approach. It's something that you have to work with at the schools. You work with the individuals. So I know I was in Cranberry Portage; I knew what AFM was doing when I was–last visited there, and it's very different than in a residential school setting versus a non-residential school setting. Mrs. Rowat: I agree.

We need to be looking at expanding this program, you know, and it's unfortunate that school divisions are having to pick up the cost. I always feel that school divisions are at a budget deficit in some wa ys and to off-load this type of a program onto the school divisions has probably been part of a challenge at the schools implementing it, because they don't have the dollars. But it's a Catch-22, you know. You need those dollars to–you need those programs to continue to, you know, ensure that there's less TAs, you know, that type of thing, you know. So it's a Catch-22; you run in circles on this.

It would be great if, you know, the program–and I believe Souris where, is my home community, that program was implemented without the school division having to pay the school–pay for the services. It was run through AFM. But obviously the need is higher. There's more schools that are needing it and obviously for a good reason, so we're wanting to see this program continue and expand through–throughout the province. I have an

article here that actually was from the Metro that says, St. James schools suspending more for drug and alcohol use. So the minister's backdoor newspaper, you know, he–it's obviously something that he's aware of and is up to speed on, but, you know, obviously, we're seeing even in his backyard that there's a need for more counsellors and a need for a strengthening of the program throughout the province. So I'm encouraged to hear that they're looking at this. We need to find ways that we can support school divisions, support the students, support the teachers who are, you know, working really closely

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1615 with these kids and wanting to make sure that they get the best out of their education and their life in general, because often these situations aren't just based in school; they're based in social environments as well as in their homes . So I look forward to continuing the dialogue on that aspect. On another issue with regard to youth, teen pregnancies, I have seen a steady increase from years past over the last fi ve or six years that I've been tracking teen pregnancies.

There's an increase from–in 2004 and 2005 we see about 150 more students, young teens, facing, you know, the devastating outcome of a teen pregnancy. We went from 1,852 in that year in the most recent stats that I have, so, if the minister has more current stats, I'd appreciate those. But '08-09 stats show we have hit the 2,000 mark, which is just unacceptable. What this does is–teen mothers often drop out of school as a result of their pregnancies and, once they leave schools, often disengage from the education system–at times, re-engage, thank goodness.

But at times it's extremely difficult for them to pick up and carry on where they left off. In my youth, I had one of my best friends have a baby, and thank goodness for supports in the community, including my mom who made sure that this young woman got the support she needed in Winnipeg and then came back and graduated. But that's not always the success story. She's done very well and moved on into society and carried on. So she is just one statistic that shows a positive, but there are so many other teens that just disengage and are lost.

So I really would like to see what type of strategy this minister is foreseeing with regard to teen pregnancy rates. We're seeing an increase, so we want to see some positive outcomes from this minister. If the minister can just comment on that. Mr. Rondeau: For the first part of the question on the AFM, I agree we need to do more. I think we've gone a long way since 2000 with–from 16 schools to 57, which is a 300 per cent increase. And I think we need to work in partnership. I think it's one where my ministry continues to work in partnership with everyone, whether it's in schools or school divisions or whatever.

One of the things I've learned is that if you can get a partnership where the schools believe and will utilize the service and they believe in the service, they'll utilize it better. So we will continue to expand schools. We did three more this year. And a 300 per cent increase, although it's not perfect, it's not bad since 2000. And 115 per cent increase in the money, and the AFM–and I did chat with the board about how we can continue to improve it. Not perfect, but it's moving.

And I agree with you because it's not only just the prevention, it's actually the dealing with kids early, and I think that will make a much better future for all the kids. So I agree with the member there. As far as the teen pregnancy issues, I will endeavour to get you the stat s, the current stats, but they're from Health. And the reproductive health and wellness in young people in Manitoba is really important to us. We have implemented some teen clinics. They focus on 13- to 18-year-olds, and we're looking at how we can move that forward.

And I think that what we want to do is–we actually are working through partnerships with multiple groups. And I think it's not just us; I think it's Health that has to work with it. So I understand the WRHA, other RHAs are involved. Teen clinics have been out there, and we have expanded teen clinics. * (12:00) And we also want to work with Healthy Child Manitoba to make sure that if there is a young mom that is pregnant and is delivering, that we have the best possible outcome. That's why the Healthy Baby program becomes important. That's why the Prenatal Benefit becomes important.

That's why Triple P becomes important. That's why all the information sessions out in the community become important. So we want to make sure that it's an integrated approach to teen pregnancies and young children, and so we'll continue on that. One of the objectives in the department is the whole system on sexuality and making sure that people have healthy sexual practices. And part of that is trying to avoid teen pregnancies and making sure that if that happens, they have a best possible outcome for that child and the mother. Mrs.

Rowat: Can the minister indicate to me what type of dollar allocation he has within his department towards teen pregnancy initiatives? Do they have an advertising budget? And that type of thing. Mr. Rondeau: We do have a specific line for teen clinics, which is in my budget, and that's $300,000. Mrs. Rowat: What is teen clinics? Is that a–that's that line? That phone line? Or is that– An Honourable Member: No.

1616 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 Mrs. Rowat: No. Is that–okay. Can you tell me about it? Mr. Rondeau: The teen clinic program is a program–Healthy Child Manitoba funds six teen-centred primary health-care services: Elmwood Teen Clinic, managed by WRHA; Access River East; St. John's Teen Clinic, managed by Mount Carmel Clinic; Flin Flon , The Pas and Cranberry Portage Teen Clinic, managed by NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority; Selkirk Teen Clinic, managed by 'internate'–Interlake Regional Health Authority.

Healthy Child Manitoba teen clinics operate on the core principles of confidentiality, accessibility, harm reduction and cultural responsiveness. Mrs. Rowat: I'm interested to know, you know, what type of strategies are being implemented, because I believe in '08-09 we had close to 900 teen pregnancies identified in Winnipeg alone, so that's almost half of the population. So I'm encouraging the minister. The minister would not have the stats for '09-10? Mr. Rondeau: I don't have the stats at my fingertips. I don't know whether we maintain them or Health maintains them. I can get back to the member on that. Mrs.

Rowat: Youth suicide, another area that is seeing a disturbing trend of increase again this last year. I'm looking at the graph in the Children's Advocate's annual report from '08-09 and '09-10 and seeing a significant increase. We saw a huge increase in '04-05. When I was the critic for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, we had a strong dialogue with the minister responsible in that area, because a significant number of the suicides were on-reserve or Aboriginal youth.

What we see is a concern again that in 2009, and I'm quoting right from the report that the office of the children's–OCME, office of the Children's Advocate of Manitoba has reported 21 suicides in 2009, and that is a concern, because I believe that what we're hearing is that there is a strategy, there's discussion with at-risk groups, and there seems to be an increase in suicides of youth.

And, obviously, prevention is paramount when we're looking at youth who move to that helpless level of feeling that there's nothing worth living for when they're–what we're finding, at 13 to 15 years of age is an increase in the number–or the age of children taking their own lives. And I believe on record they're as young as eight years old. So, obviously, this is a very serious concern. If we're seeing an increase in numbers, we need to be addressing it and aggressively. We need to be identifying the root causes and moving forward.

So I'm just wanting to ask the minister, you know, if they could provide–if he can provide me with what his department is doing with regard to this very serious issue. Another point I want to indicate is that we seem to be seeing an increase in women or girls taking their lives over boys and that seems to be a switch in trends. So I'm just wanting to know if the minister can provide me with what exactly he believes is being done to address this, which I feel is a very concerning situation. Mr. Rondeau: I agree with the member. It's very, very important to deal with.

It's, again, another file that we work with multiple partners to deal with. I'll tell you some of the programs that we're dealing with that hopefully will make a difference in this. The first one is Roots of Empathy and Seeds of Empathy. We didn't cut this program. We continue to support this program very aggressively, and it expands empathy, reduces bullying, understands–builds–in very, very young people it builds the fact that people can look at and understand where the other person's coming at, and that's a fundamental long-term process by which we're going to have people's behavioural change.

Next one is the Triple P program, which is providing families and people support, and that's delivered everywhere in St. James. I know the school division's very, very involved in delivering programs that deal with issues with young people and how to deal with it, communications with teens, et cetera. Families First program does make a huge difference in suicides because it's again building capacity, the whole recreation and activity program because it's keeping people busy. That makes a difference. Grants to organizations like WASAC, Winnipeg Aboriginal Sport Achievement Centre–huge, because kids can shine.

We have lots of programs for employment at Youth at Risk and keeping kids busy and active and engaged. That makes a big difference because then you have people who are there that are supportive. The Boys and Girls Club grant fits into that, the mentoring program fits into that, and I dare say that almost everything we do, even as far as addictions, fits into that by being proactive.

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1617 So I think that a lot of what our ministry is about deals with providing the supports for a kid to strive. I think it provides an opportunity for people to be supported, and I also think it's where people can sit there and shine, where they feel an important part of the community.

And, finally, we're trying to support the individual and the family unit and even going so far as saying, okay, how do we–through this mentorship program or support to Big Brothers, Big Sisters, et cetera, how do we grow that kid so that if the family is needing support, we support the family, we support the kid, we suppor t everyone that we can to build community. Mrs. Rowat: Can the minister indicate to me what–if he has the results from the SOS evaluation that was supposed to be released in 2010? SOS is the Signs of Suicide program.

It was developed in the USA and according to the Healthy Child annual report the results were supposed to be released this year. So I'm just wanting to know if that's available. Mr. Rondeau: I am not exactly sure where that evaluation is. We are part of the Reclaiming Hope strategy, and we are involved with other departments in this. I will see whether we have the evaluation and where it is. I do know that the whole issue of youth suicide is something we address very seriously across all departments. * (12:10) Mrs. Rowat: And I believe that we're going back into Estimates on Monday.

I'd really–if you can provide me with an update on where that report is, on Monday, that evaluation report, especially with what we're seeing, an uptake in suicides in our province. I think we need to be up to speed and ensure that the evaluations are coming forward. With regard to the enhanced Telehealth capacity that was announced in 2010, have those evaluations been released? It was stated September, 2010, that there would be an ongoing evaluation, an outcome assessment, to looked at the effectiveness of the program. It was reported on in a–the Lac du Bonnet Leader

article of September, 2010. So, I'm just wanting to know if the minister knows much about the pilot program, Reclaiming Hope initiative, and whether that evaluation, if he's involved, or if he knows where that is at? Mr. Rondeau: Again, although we're a part of the suicide prevention strategy, the Telehealth evaluation would fall into the Health purview. Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Chairperson, we'll keep going here. It's–time is moving. I do want to get into Triple P and talk about that program. The minister's referenced it a couple times, and I would like to just get an update on where you're at on that.

I know that Triple P parenting was introduced about six years ago, based on what I've read, and I guess I'm just wondering, overall, how much money has been invested in developing and delivering the program in Manitoba? On the website, Triple P says it's an effective, practical approach to raising children that emphasizes the positive. Can the minister tell me, after five years of implementation, how the Province is measuring Triple P's effectiveness? Mr. Rondeau: The Triple P approach is an evidence-based program that's rolled out across the world.

So, we're actually not evaluating the program itself, because that's been evidence-based, it's been rolled out through Australia and other places. The actual outcomes of the program have received merit. They've been evaluated in other areas. So what we're doing is measuring the rollout here in Manitoba. The way we work with it, is we have the–we're training people who work with the families in different disciplines. I can let the member know that, to date, over 1,300 practitioners have been trained and accredited to deliver Triple P throughout the province, in more than 200 partners' agencies.

Training continues to be offered to practitioners in all sectors, including health, social services, education, early learning and child care. And this, sort of, fits within the whole healthy babies, addiction prevention, strengthening families, the whole idea about suicide prevention. So it's a comprehensive program, across government, that supports kids and their families. Mrs. Rowat: But, again, this program has been in place for five years and we're seeing an increase in youth suicides, we're seeing an increase in teen pregnancies, we're seeing an increase in youth smoking and addictions.

So, I guess what I'm wanting to know is, how is the Province measuring Triple P's effectiveness locally? It is a program that is used in Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, but what I want to know is, it's a program that's been in place now, in Manitoba, for five years. We've spent a significant amount of money training practitioners. We're seeing a–you know, obviously, the capacity for practitioners is in place. We have gone from, I believe, last year you told me there were 900

1618 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 or–practitioners based on a recent

article on Triple P. There's now 1,200, so obviously the capacity for practitioners is there, but what we need to know is how is this program working in Manitoba. Based on what we've covered earlier today, we're seeing that there's increases in a number of key, critical health issues, social issues within the province. So I guess I'm just again going to ask, how are we determining the effectiveness of this program within our province? Mr.

Rondeau: I think what we have to do is, because it's an evidence-based project and program and it has been measured, the outcomes have been measured, that's where we're going for that. So the program has merit. It does make a difference. As a former educator, I know that prevention is very, very difficult to measure, because if I prevent you from falls, I know that SafetyAid makes a difference. Why? Because we do a thousand people's–seniors' house, so we make sure that they don't have these scatter mats that they slip and fall and break their hip in the bathroom.

We do not have a number of people that we can predict that will fall. So we know that the program makes sense. We know that it's cost effective but we don't have–just because I prevent a certain thing from happening, it's very, very hard to measure. I do know that the population has increased drastically in Manitoba, by about 20 per cent since '99, so, yes, there are increased numbers. There's increased population. I think what we always want to do is we want to make sure that we have a strategy that does prevention in the broad base and that means that we're working with young people and young families.

And, you know, it's very, very tough to say that we have saved or changed certain behaviours with certain number of individuals. I do know that we have more retention in high schools. I do know that we have some very, very good resilient programs and I do know that in St. James Assiniboia, when I've checked on the Triple P programs when I've seen parents there, they say they're valuable because th ey're learning and they're learning how to work with their young people, and so I think that's where we go. I do know that now there's 1,200 people.

I do believe that there's good programs out there, and if you want the statistical evidence of the Triple P program from other areas that have evaluated it, I'm sure that we can access the fundamental beliefs of the program and the evidence-based results of the program in other jurisdictions. Mrs. Rowat: No offence, Mr. Chair, but we–our jurisdiction is Manitoba. He talked about evidence based– right, evidence based. We're seeing an increase in pregnancies, 150 in the last five years; we've seen suicides increas e within the province in the last year significantly again.

So what we're saying is if it's evidence based, what I'm seeing, based on the evidence within our province, is that we're seeing an increase in these situations and in these social aspects. So the minister, you know, indicates that it's making a difference, that it is cost effective. I want to know how he can justify that. I need to know how he is justifying that it is making a difference, that it is cost effective, when evidence based, within Manitoba, we're seeing an increase in so many areas of social challenges. Mr. Rondeau: I look at it this way, Mr. Chair.

I know, statistically, a certain amount of seniors will slip and fall in bathrooms and scatter mats. I know that we deal with a thousand houses, over a thousand houses, through SafetyAid program. I know that we removed the scatter mats and we fixed the carpets and we make sure there's deadbolts and all this.

I cannot tell you absolutely the number of seniors that we prevent and falling and breaking their hip and knee, but I know that this happens, that we actually have prevented injuries and made places more safe and secure. * (12:20) I think that when you do early interventions, the Roots of Empathy and Seeds of Empathy, the program has been in other jurisdictions longer, and I believe that it does decrease the amount of aggressiveness, amount of bullying. It does make a difference.

My belief is that if you measure the outcomes in 30, 50, 100 different jurisdictions, I believe that the same results would follow in Manitoba. I don't think that that's that different. I believe that humans do have an effect. So, whether we're dealing with individuals on a teen clinic or whether we're dealing with activity for in motion, I know that, when we give grants and people start walking more and they're more active, when they're eating better, that it does have an effect on diabetes, These are the things that I believe, and I believe the average Manitoban believes that too.

That, if you're eating better , you're exercising better, and you're–the amount of activity you have in the province goes up and you're getting more food

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1619 programs and cheaper healthy food out to people, that makes a difference. I cannot measure how long that delays or prevents diabetes. These programs, Triple P, has been studied in multiple jurisdictions. They do have effects. The difference is that the input on the professional, when they deal with the family, when they deal with the individual, has individual effects, and I know that there's issues. That's why I believe that we need to continue to deal with prevention, and I think that this department's important–I believe that it's important.

Our government does believe in prevention, and I'm pleased that I'm back in the ministry because that's what our purpose is. Mrs. Rowat: And, again, I just don't see the–where the minister can say that this is making a difference and it's cost effective, when evidence-based–like defend that, I guess. If it is happening, if it is making a difference, I really would like to see the evidence-based evaluation on that. We don't have an evaluation. The report that was provided to me last year was based on a practitioner's evaluation from 2008. There's nothing current, unless there's something the minister can share.

But I see nothing that is current in showing that the program that has been in place for six years, that has cost a significant amount of money is, actually, making the difference, and I've asked for that type of information and I haven't received it. So I, you know, I'm not saying that the program isn't working. What I am saying is that I don't see anything to prove my concern with the program as being anything other than that.

So, you know, I look forward to the minister providing me with some type of information that he can show me that there is an evaluation process happening, that he can provide me with those results from that process because the program is expanding. Obviously, we're seeing a significant number of people being trained. The capacity in that aspect is transparent. But what we'r e hearing and seeing are people–programmers–practitioners, who are just not offering that service, where, what I'm hearing is places like Klinic, and that's based on–what I understand is they have trained practitioners.

But they're not, to my knowledge, offering the Triple P program out of the clinic, and that's what I'm hearing from people within the industry. So, if people are being trained to be practitioners, and we see a significant increase in the number of practitioners not offering Triple P, then that is a concern. So, again, what I need to see, if they're increasing the traine rs, we need to know if they're offering that program and in what way they're offering that program. If th ey are not offering that program, why are they not offering that program and we need to address that.

Because I believe that what we're seeing are a number of people who may have been trained who are just not utilizing the program, and some within, you know, some practitioners that are out there are indicating that you see a lot of advertising, you see a lot of promotion of the program, but not a lot of pickup in people actually accessing this program. So, Mr.

Chair, I need, I guess, from the minister some assurances, some type of, you know, evidence- based–and those are his words–evidence-based outcomes that are showing me that this program is actually making a difference to–for–based on– and, again, his words–in a cost effective way for Manitoba families. Mr. Rondeau: To give you a–Mr.

Chair, to give the honourable member an idea of the use of the program, during the course of an eight-week period, approximately 700 phone calls were received at the Healthy Child office from both members of the public and practitioners, seeking more information about the Triple P program. They desire–they indicated the desire to enrol in the Triple P program. In addition, a significant increase was seen in the number of visits to the Triple P website, and basically it gets about 3,000 visits a month.

I then think that–I don't know that every single hit on the website actually had a huge effect on each individual, but I think the cumulative effect of 700 phone calls and 3,000 visits per month does make a difference, because these ar e people who say, what are the resources out there? How can I–I need some resources. How can I access th e resources? And then those people then can access the resources in their community to help them. And so these are 700 calls in eight weeks, 3,000 visits a month to the website that are accessing information on parenting, parenting skills and issues that they have.

And then I would assume that they follow up. I do not track each individual. But the other thing I have to let the member know is that St. James school division, which delivers some of the Triple P programs, when they're talking about programs on living with your teen or dealing with kids that are out of control–but there's different way they phrase d it–parents are there and they're attending those workshops. And when you

1620 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 have professionals who refer people to the services, that's what we want. And the interesting thing about Triple P is that they may have general information services. Then they go to specific information services, and there's a hierarchy of services depending on need. And so each one of those calls get referred to people who then have a system of delivery, of supporting those individuals. And that's what it is; it's a system of supports to individuals and families. Mrs. Rowat: But we don't have any statistics that show where those people go from that website.

They may be just looking at the website for research or whatever. There's no indication, you know, how many parents are utilizing that program. You know, that's the kind of stuff that we really need to see outcomes on–how many parents are actually utilizing this program? The practitioners that are actually offering the program, where are they offering this program 'fum'–from? We understand that it is a program that you cannot charge for. How many, you know–can you confirm for us that all those 1,200 practitioners are actually offering the program without charging fees? Are you tracking that in any way?

You know, there's a number of things that are out there, and I guess we'll explore that further on Monday when we come back into Estimates. But those are some of the questions that I have with regard to the program. There doesn't seem to be a co-ordinated effort in determining, you know, the capacity for–beyond training practitioners. Can the minister indicate to me–I guess what I need to know now is recently we've seen–I guess it was a FIPPA that indicated there was $446,000 spent on Triple P advertising in January, February and March.

Can the minister indicate to me, you know, what this will be–what this was used for? I've seen the bus banners, but I'm just really concerned about that amount of money being spent for Triple P, and I'm wanting to know if the minister's actually going to be measuring the impact of that campaign ad. That's a significant amount of money, $500,000. Mr. Rondeau: I can endeavour to get the member the amount of hits on the website during that campaign and the phone calls that we received. One of the things– Mr. Chairperson: Order. The hour being 12:30 p.m., committee rise. CONSERVATION * (10:00) Mr.

Chairperson (Rob Altemeyer): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Conservation. As has been previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Thanks to the honourable minister's colleagues for allowing me to ask questions, and my apologies for being a couple of minutes late. I had two more highways out there that are being cut this morning, so we're dealing with some emergencies on 259 at Virden, and just got off the phone from Mr. Ashton's department, so thanks, Mr.

Minister, in regards to that. I guess, I just wanted to move quickly through a couple of areas if I could here, I guess, in the next little bit. Yes, we've–there's a bit of–some of the area that I want to cover is just–I think we've pretty much covered some of the other areas. The minister was going to get back to me in regards to the ads for Pimachiowin Aki–right–pardon me, Corporation. But I would–I just wondered if he has any numbers on that that he can provide me. Okay. Hon. Bill Blaikie (Minister of Conservation): No. I don't have them as yet, but we will provide them to the member, as I indicated. Mr.

Maguire: The minister's indicated he's got about $800,000 to put into the moose strategy– An Honourable Member: That's right. Mr. Maguire: And he's–appreciate that. Can he just indicate if that's new money or where he's–what part of the budget he's got that from or is it– Mr. Blaikie: It's new money and it's in the budget that just passed. Mr. Maguire: And the–I know the minister's announced the five staff, two biologists, a couple of–three, and, so, is that going to be an ongoing expenditure each year then? Mr. Blaikie: These are permanent positions–have been created. Mr.

Maguire: Part of the department's long-term strategy then, I guess, to address the issues, like the

May 6, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1621 management of–I've been in the area as well, and to look at some of the roads, and that sort of thing, and the logging roads and different things, Mr. Minister, will this be part of that whole overall strategy of how the $800,000 will be used for some of the people in that area and–personnel, I should say, in that area? And I guess before I get off or leave that one, I just wonder if he can give me a time frame as to when those five positions will be filled. Mr.

Blaikie: With respect to the positions, the five new positions, we're in the process of recruiting for those positions as we speak. So that's something–we hope to fill those positions as soon as possible. And with respect to your question about roads, I mean that's all part of the strategy. There's no one element of the strategy that's going to succeed in and of itself. We have to look at everything, questions of access which have to do with roads. We already closed some roads in the Duck Mountains and we've closed roads on the east side of Lake Winnipeg, Happy Lake Road.

We have to do this sometimes in consultation with First Nations communities, but even people who before were against the closing of road s are now for the closing of roads because they realize that access is one of the elements of the decline in the moose population. So, yes, we–limiting access is part of the moose recovery strategy and people will be–when we actually close a road we have to contract with somebody to close the road.

That's not something that the people with the–that fill these five new positions will be actually doing themselves, but they will be doing the work associated with making the decisions that we need to make with respect to access, with respect to predator management, with respect to everything that's part of the package. * (10:10) Mr. Maguire: Yes, I've seen some of the results. I didn't see the bulldozers myself, but I saw the results of the bulldozers and some of the closures, and it certainly will impact vehicles getting in.

A lot of the locals tell me that there's, you know, a chainsaw and an all-terrain vehicles still get around it and go. And I, you know, I sympathize with that, and it's a difficult thing to do. So I think I appreciate the fact that the NROs are in there and working together. Sometimes it might even be a difficult situation to send one person into a situation like that.

I think they'd be better to be working in pairs and appreciate the new personnel to go in and do those things and give them the authority to be able to, you know, find some of the people that are involved in some of those areas as well, if that's the case. And I just wondered what kinds of plans that the minister has or the department has in regards to continuing moose surveys in that area of–for not only this year, but over the next four or five years. Mr.

Blaikie: Yes, I mean, part of the $800,000 is for increased surveys, not just with respect to moose population itself, but also with respect to predator populations. So there's an element of the new money that will be spent on increased aerial surveys, which are expensive for obvious reasons. And it was certainly a felt need to have more information, to have more surveys, and that's part of what the $800,000 is about.

I might add that in respect of all of these things, we will be working, you know, with the moose advisory committee that we've set up, which has people from all stakeholders from the trappers, to the Wildlife Federation, to the Moose for Tomorrow group in Swan River, and various others, First Nations communities that are on the moose advisory committee. I think all in all there's about $190,000 allocated for the new survey work with respect to moose themselves and predators, particularly wolves. Mr.

Maguire: Yeah, before I–I was just going to ask a question on the wolves as well, but the two biologists that are–be in that area, what will their role be and where will they be located? Mr. Blaikie: Well, one will be located in the–in where–I don't know exactly where they will live, but they will be located in a place where they have easy access to the Duck Mountains and work in the Duck Mountain area, and the other will be on the east side. So one on each. But on the NRO side, we've got two new ones on the west side and one on the east side. Mr. Maguire: Thanks, Mr. Minister.

The wolf population is a problem in some areas, and certainly in those as well, and I wonder if he can provide me with any kind of an update. I know that they did surveys there in January, I believe, this–on the moose and the ducks and the porcupines at least, anyway, and surveys prior to that in the east, from what I understand. And I wonder if he can provide me with information as to–I mean, we've seen some of the results of the moose numbers, but what about the wolf population as well?

1622 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2011 Mr. Blaikie: Yes, Mr. Chairperson, there were surveys–some survey work was–I expect a little was done

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-5-41c
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 5th hansardpdf 41c.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0af625da97b139bce475ae60cc6e89565cfcdd3a

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