2015 Legislative Session: Fourth Session, 40th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.

The printed version remains the official version.

official report of

Debates of the Legislative Assembly

(hansard)

Thursday, October 29, 2015

Afternoon Sitting

Volume 30, Number

ISSN 0709-1281 (Print)

ISSN 1499-2175 (Online)

CONTENTS

Page

Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 42 — Electoral Districts Act (continued)

H. Bains

M. Morris

D. Donaldson

L. Larson

M. Elmore

D. Plecas

R. Austin

L. Throness

M. Farnworth

Hon. S. Bond

C. James

M. Dalton

B. Routley

[ Page 9901 ]

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2015

The House met at 1:32 p.m.

[Madame Speaker in the chair.]

Orders of the Day

Hon. T. Lake: I call continued second reading on Bill 42.

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 42 — ELECTORAL DISTRICTS ACT

(continued)

H. Bains: Once again, after the break, it's a pleasure to stand and speak on Bill 42.

[R. Chouhan in the chair.]

Before the break, I was speaking about the history of South Asians for a reason. It just reminds us of where we came from, where we are today and what we need to do to move forward. When you look at the makeup of the Surrey-Newton constituency, it has a population, under the new boundaries, of 60,000 — sorry, of 58,340.

Interjection.

H. Bains: The minister has said: "What's a couple of thousand?" But the way Surrey is growing…. Since they went and started talking to people in Surrey and saw where everyone lives, there are probably a couple thousand more people that moved into Surrey since that time. Under all estimates, 1,000 new people move in every month in Surrey.

When you look at the demographic makeup of Surrey-Newton, it probably is the most diverse constituency that you can find anywhere in B.C., perhaps in Canada, along with, perhaps, my neighbouring constituency of Surrey–Green Timbers.

[1335]

When you look at the population of Surrey-Newton, the 2006 and 2009 census will tell you that in my constituency, about 70 percent of the population are visible minorities. Out of that 70 percent visible minorities, 75 percent are Punjabis or Sikhs — most of them Sikhs.

Then the next biggest numbers of the population would be the Urdu-speaking and Tagalog, the Filipinos. We also have, if you look at other communities that have made this great constituency, people from Vietnam, of Chinese descent, Nepalese, Ethiopians and many other African Canadians, and those of European and Asian descent. You will find them in Surrey-Newton.

When you look at that heavy concentration of one type of people — in this case, Punjabi Sikhs and people from India — it's always inevitable that you will have all the facilities and services to go along with it. We have — I was just looking at and trying to remember if I'd missed any — about eight Sikh gurdwaras. Within Surrey-Newton or just around the boundaries of Surrey-Newton, there are Guru Nanak Sikh Temple on Scott Road, Dasmesh Gurdwara, Brookside, Khalsa Diwan Society of Surrey, Singh Sabha, Dukh Nivaran. And there are others that have set up in Surrey-Newton or surrounding areas.

Along with it, when you look at all the activities that take place in gurdwaras — the weddings and other religious ceremonies — then we have many, many banquet halls. Just around the same area, I could name — a few of those are large facilities — Crystal hall. We have the Bombay Banquet Hall. We have Bollywood, Dhaliwal, Punjab Banquet Hall, Royal King, and then there are smaller ones.

The importance of mentioning these banquet halls is this. You cannot find a night when there isn't an activity in some of these halls, in addition to the weddings and other activities. There's always some sort of public event to raise money for the right cause. If you walk into one of those on any given night of the week, you'll see some good stuff happening by the good people of Surrey-Newton and from the surrounding areas. That's why this constituency makes for such a hilarious, such an exciting place to live and raise your family.

Then we have a number of mosques in the same area, because the Muslim community is one of the fastest-growing in that particular area. I have so many good friends who stand with me and support me, and we discuss issues that are important to that community so that we can make changes for the better.

My good friends in the Filipino community — many of them live just across from my office. I get invited to their Christmas parties. They come and participate in our many festivities that we host in our office or outside, such as Eid celebrations, Diwali celebrations, Vaisakhi celebrations and Christmas celebrations. I think there never is a dull moment when something exciting isn't happening and where people are engaged to make lives better for each other.

[1340]

Also, I mentioned the Newton Wave Pool. Although it technically used to sit just outside, on the other side of 72 Avenue, it is one of the key centres for many people to come, whether it's recreational or as a swimming pool that they use and bring the children for many, many different training activities. That is just an iconic building there, and everyone comes and enjoys.

The other day, I mentioned the Old Surrey Restaurant, owned and run by Philip Aguirre, who is also executive director of the Newton Business Improvement Association, doing one heck of a job to promote Surrey-Newton, working with the local businesses, helping them to make sure that we get rid of crime in the area so that

[ Page 9902 ]

people can feel safe walking around those businesses and doing their normal daily work duties without the fear of getting mugged or people sleeping in their doorsteps.

We also have other organizations, such as Options, in our area that are helping so many people trying to establish in this area, whether it's immigration or to deal with income assistance or housing issues. There are a number of very, very useful operations in that area.

I also want to mention that there are a number of challenges that our constituency faces. Since 2005, myself and my other three NDP colleagues — from Green Timbers, from Surrey-Whalley and, previously from Fleetwood, Jagrup Brar — worked hard, working with the community and raising those issues to make sure that we get investment into our Surrey Memorial Hospital to have the expansion done.

Interjection.

H. Bains: The minister is chirping away. If he pays attention, he probably will learn something. He thinks everything is centred on Vancouver, but just once in a while come to Surrey. Come to Surrey, and you will learn the difficulties and challenges people face.

The expansion to Surrey Memorial took place after so much pressure from the community, and many people raised so much money to help expand the Surrey Memorial Hospital. RedFM radio ran radiothons to raise money to support Surrey Memorial Hospital year after year. Other organizations have done the same thing. Like I said, in those banquet halls, you'll see somebody is raising money for hospitals or for other good causes.

But even today, when people go to Surrey Memorial emergency, quite often it's pretty regular for people to wait six, seven, eight hours to get emergency treatment, to see a doctor there. I think we can do better, and we must do better because we owe it to our people and the people that sent us here.

Then we look at public transportation. Finally, after so much pressure from Surrey, we are starting to get the attention of TransLink and of this government so that we can have our SkyTrain or LRT extended into Newton. I'm going to work hard on behalf of my constituents to make sure that that happens.

Despite the fact that this government has continually abdicated their duty to sit down with the mayors to come up with a stable, long-term funding formula, they continue to say no to any idea that the mayors come up with. They have no idea of their own. They say: "Well, put it to a referendum." You know, such a way to run the province. Always, when you can't make a tough decision, you run referendums.

We have a serious issue with crime that I talked about. Community groups are working hard to make sure that this government, the federal government and the local governments sit down together to find real solutions. We, myself and my other two colleagues, proposed, by working with the local community and the activists, what we call the Surrey accord.

[1345]

We got a very good response from the community about what is needed to cut crime in Surrey-Newton, and they felt the Surrey accord has the answers. We need to….

Interjection.

H. Bains: Well, the Minister of Technology has no idea of his own. He comes from Surrey. He sits here and heckles me when I try to come up with some real solutions. He never stands up here to come up with any solutions. Maybe it is time for him to stand up rather than chirping away and heckling when somebody's talking about Surrey.

So that is the issue. The Surrey accord is something that is needed. We have gang violence in the area. We have drug problems. But we've been successful in many ways. One time we had a problem when what was called doda was being sold in local stores. It was brought to my attention by RedFM, actually. I wrote a letter to the Attorney General and to the police chief. Finally, the police got into action, and now it is not sold in those stores, so I'm glad about that.

This is an example of people working together and coming to a solution, rather than sitting here accusing and chirping away without any solution of their own.

I had the opportunity to attend many of the high schools in my area. Frank Hurt is one of them — one of the oldest buildings, I think — along with Earl Marriott. They call them sister schools. The member for Surrey–White Rock was with me one time when a student had to walk out to draw the attention of this government that we need more classroom space. It's one of the oldest buildings.

I met with the staff, the teachers, the principal and the students not too long ago — wonderful people. They're trying to do their best to make sure that we get the best education delivered to those students.

Princess Margaret is another secondary school. Tamanawis is the other, third, secondary school that covers the catchment of Surrey-Newton students.

Having said that, there are so many activists working to draw the attention of this government. There was an ad hoc committee made up of the Surrey Board of Trade, city council, teachers and parents trying to draw attention to expanding our school space. We have close to 7,000 students in portables right now. I'm told that that would make the 23rd-largest school district in the province, with that number of students.

I think that thanks to their work — Linda Stromberg, Anita Huberman, people from city council and many others pushed the government — finally, we were told that there will be $120 million available to expand our school classroom space. But if you really look at what

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we need, it's about $273 million. So it's about one-third of what we needed.

As I said, it's the fastest-growing community. We have more students coming than any other district every year, so the growth is there, and they all know that the growth is going to be there.

According to Metro Vancouver, another million people will be moving to the Lower Mainland by 2040 — one million new citizens moving into the Lower Mainland by 2040. Most of them, they estimated, will be settling south of the Fraser, the Surrey, Delta, Langley area and the northeast sector. We don't have services to serve the population that we have in Surrey today. Can you imagine when you have another half a million people moving into that area? How are we going to handle our transportation needs, education needs, post-secondary education needs and health care needs?

We have post-secondary education. When you look at the population growth and the number of seats available in post-secondary education at SFU or Kwantlen…. Kwantlen is one of the key institutions that were there right from the beginning.

[1350]

I had the opportunity to serve on that board from 1993 till 1999. This was the time when Kwantlen College's name was changed to Kwantlen University College. It is a great organization, a great institution, but the fact still remains that we have the fewest number of seats on a per-capita basis for post-secondary education south of the Fraser.

That's why, perhaps, there's a link. That's why we have the lowest participation rate of high school students into post-secondary education. It's 24 percent for the rest of B.C., the Lower Mainland, and 11 or 12 percent south of the Fraser. Those are the numbers.

I think we owe it to those children to have…. There was a promise by this government in 2005 that they would double the seats at SFU. I attended a function just the other day hosted by the president. He said they're still waiting for those seats.

Those are some of the challenges. Working together, we can make it better. We will make it better. We will cut crime. We will have a better education system. We will have a better health care system. It just takes the desire and courage of this government to work with us. We can provide you with solutions. We can give you some nice suggestions. The people of Surrey are waiting for this government to act. They're waiting for this government to deliver on the promises they made to the people of Surrey.

I think we have seen some successes when we work together. We will continue to work to make sure that we make it even better for our children, their children, when they come and look back at what we were able to achieve for them. I think it is our duty. It's not just a job. It's our duty to ourselves, to our children who are coming behind us and to their children. We should be able to, authentically and really, in their eyes, say that their lives are better and that British Columbia is better because we played a small role in that.

Deputy Speaker: Members, in the opening remarks the Minister of Justice made on Bill 42, she invited members to talk about their community, but I caution everybody to stay focused on Bill 42.

M. Morris: It's my pleasure to stand here today and to speak to the Electoral Districts Act, Bill 42. It's been a long time coming. If we look at the process that we've had in place here, where, in a previous session, we talked about securing some solid representation in rural B.C., I noticed that our friends across the hall here were virtually opposed to that as we discussed that and voted against that particular bill. It's interesting to see how quickly they have come around to our way of thinking, as we found out discussing the previous motion and as I'm hearing, so far, in the discussion around Bill 42 here.

My riding — right in the central Interior, the centre of British Columbia, the riding of Prince George–Mackenzie — is situated perfectly to provide services, supplies and resources to the resource industry scattered throughout British Columbia.

We're right at the confluence of two major rivers. We are right at the junction of our north-south-east-west highway structure within the province. We have railways that intersect in Prince George as well — north, south, east and west — that provide transportation routes for the majority of resources that come from rural B.C. that are shipped through the Port of Prince Rupert west of Prince George or come south and are shipped through the port in Vancouver.

We also have pipelines that come through Prince George, through my riding. We have pipelines that deliver the valuable natural gas that we have in northeast B.C. There's a structure, a network of pipelines, right across the province that take the natural gas to the west and down to the south. When my colleagues from urban B.C…. B.C. is the most urbanized province in Canada, so when 85 percent of the population wakes up every morning and turns their thermostat up on the wall, they get it from two basic sources.

[1355]

One is from natural gas from northeast B.C. that comes through the ground in these large steel pipes, which keeps our urban friends warm down here. The other way is through the power that, when they turn up the thermostat and turn their lights on…. The power comes through Prince George, as well, from the W.A.C. Bennett dam, which provides over one-third of the power to all British Columbia.

Those power lines are supported by these large steel structures that are made from iron ore, but they're also made as a result of the metallurgical coal that's mined in Tumbler Ridge and through the southwest part of the

[ Page 9904 ]

province here. That coal is shipped along these rail lines and highways that we have in British Columbia from rural B.C. down south here.

My riding plays an integral role, as do all the other rural ridings in British Columbia, to support urban British Columbia. In the northern three-quarters of the province, which is just south of my riding — Prince George is only halfway up — in the 100 Mile area north, from the Alberta border to the Queen Charlotte Islands, we have only 320,000 people.

The city of Surrey has more people than we have in the entire northern three-quarters of British Columbia. Yet the northern three-quarters of British Columbia provides the lion's share of the resource revenue that we obtain from our natural resources from forestry, from oil and gas activities in northwest B.C., from mining activities that we have.

I've got Mount Milligan right on the border of my riding and the member for Nechako Lakes. We've got several mines within a two-hour drive of my particular riding that provide billions of dollars of economic activity over the years and employ hundreds of people — First Nations communities and people that live throughout British Columbia.

There's a large segment of people that reside in the urban centre of British Columbia, in communities on Vancouver Island, in the Okanagan, that travel into rural B.C., into northern B.C., into my riding to work. They'll spend ten days working in the camp, and they'll come back out to their great towns and cities that we have scattered throughout British Columbia.

This bill is significant in the fact that it maintains that rural riding representation that we so dearly need in this urbanized province that we live in. We have a significant number of people — you know, four million people — living in urban B.C. right now. Many of them — whether they be immigrants from other countries that are contributing to our economy or whether they're people that have moved in from other provinces that have decided to settle in the Lower Mainland in urban B.C. — have never ventured outside of the Lower Mainland.

Many of them have no idea what we can offer in northern B.C. Many of them have no idea what the infrastructure requirements are to maintain the resource industry of northern B.C., to maintain our hospitals that we have in Prince George. Prince George has a regional hospital there, the University Hospital of Northern British Columbia. We have a northern medical program there where we train doctors and other medical professionals. That all takes tax dollars. We're in competition with the other needs that we have in urban B.C.

I listened to my friend across the way here speaking just a few moments ago, talking about Surrey growing exponentially over the next number of years, how the population of greater Vancouver is going to increase by a million people. That's going to take resources to do that — not only financial resources. It's going to take more steel, more coal, more copper, more natural gas, more fossil fuels to run the trucks and the equipment and everything that's necessary for that.

I'm also interested to see…. Again, this is another indication of how urban B.C. influences what happens in rural B.C. I saw a news clip this morning about the city of Vancouver passing a motion where they say that within the next 35 years, they're going to be operating on nothing but renewable energy. Well, that renewable energy comes from the W.A.C. Bennett dam, the Peace Canyon dam, which is part of the Williston Lake reservoir, and the newly built Site C. It's a good thing we're building Site C, because Vancouver probably wouldn't be able to make that commitment at this particular time.

We're also going to see, as a result of that, they're going to have to string more copper cables in order to circulate that electricity and that green power and that renewable power through urban British Columbia so they can run their new transit systems that they plan on building.

[1400]

There are high hopes that something will get built under Broadway, taking students and the population into UBC. That's another significant part of the Lower Mainland — our advanced education systems and our institutions that we have that rely on the province to help to fund them, to provide that centre for students from right around the world that attend here. A lot of that money comes from rural British Columbia.

By maintaining the rural representation that we have — although it's somewhat watered down with the addition of two more urban seats in the Lower Mainland— we still have the opportunity for strong voices, with the MLAs such as myself and other colleagues that represent the rural areas in British Columbia that provide so much to the economic well-being of all British Columbians, so much with the resource development that we have.

We also offer a great deal of opportunity when it comes to living, when it comes to folks coming from around the world that want to see what British Columbia has to offer with our tourism sector — with our fishing, our hunting, our wildlife viewing opportunities and all of those types of things that are associated with a rural environment.

People enjoy that. They come back to their urban environment that we have down here — the greatest city in the world, as far as I'm concerned, with Vancouver and the Lower Mainland and Victoria. They're icons for beautiful cities from around the world.

They come down here, and they sometimes get…. A lot of people vote with just the familiarity they have with their own area — the parochial thinking they have sitting in the beautiful city of Vancouver or Victoria or Kelowna or wherever it might be.

That's how they vote. They want to vote to make sure that they get the schools, the resources and the infrastructure that they need to live the good life that they

[ Page 9905 ]

have, that we enjoy here in British Columbia and Canada — and North America, for that matter — without realizing the impact that it's going to have on rural British Columbia and the development of resources.

What the development of those resources looks like in a lot of the areas — with the mines, the environmental reviews, the process that everybody goes through up there in order to maintain the jobs and the lifestyle and the livelihood that we have…. It's critiqued by a lot of well-meaning individuals that have never stepped out of their urban environment down here. That has an impact on what we do in rural British Columbia.

Bill 42, the Electoral Districts Act, is something that will maintain the rural representation that we have in the province. It will help us maintain the strong voice of representation that we have with all of our rural MLAs in the northern three-quarters of the province here.

Hopefully, it's going to maintain that balance that we have in British Columbia so that urban British Columbia can enjoy the infrastructure and the strong future that British Columbia holds with some of the development that this side of the House is trying to forge ahead with, with our resource development, with our diverse economy, with building Site C to make sure that we've got renewable power to see us well into the future.

I look forward to what the rest of the House has to say on this bill as we debate it over the next little while.

D. Donaldson: I'm very pleased to take my spot today in the second reading debate on Bill 42, the bill that will be proposed to implement the recommendations from the 2015 Electoral Boundaries Commission, following the adoption of that report by the House, previous to this.

I'm going to put my comments into two parts. One, a little bit about the technical parts of the bill. Then I'd like to talk a little bit about Stikine. The Minister of Justice, when introducing the second reading of Bill 42, said that she knew people would be talking about their own ridings and took that opportunity herself. So I'd like to follow in her steps as well.

The bill that we're considering will create 87 electoral districts in the province, up from the current number of 85. It would add two, and it would set the boundaries of those 87 electoral districts for not just this upcoming election, in 2017, but the one after that, in 2021.

[1405]

It's part of a regular process where the boundaries of electoral districts are reviewed every two elections. We know why. It's because populations shift, populations grow and populations decrease. The fundamental issue around electoral representation is having approximately the same number of people represented by an MLA. That's the primary consideration. That's called population by representation, population based on an average.

In B.C. right now, the average would be about 53,000 people, with 87 constituencies. As we've learned under the Electoral Boundaries Commission report and now the facts that we're considering under Bill 42, there can be a deviation from that number for a number of reasons. Generally, the Electoral Boundaries Commission tries to keep the average within a standard deviation of plus or minus 25 percent from that 53,000 average.

There are special circumstances that they are able to consider to deviate further, beyond that. A great example of what I'm going to talk about today is the special circumstances regarding the constituency of Stikine, the constituency that I'm very pleased and honoured to represent.

Stikine has approximately 20,000 people in it, and it's 196,484 square kilometres. It's the largest constituency in the province. To put that into a bit more perspective, the size of Stikine could encompass Ireland, Switzerland, Denmark and the Netherlands, combined. We've got four European countries that could fit into the boundaries of Stikine…

Interjection.

D. Donaldson: …including Denmark, and we have 20,000 people. So it does have to be special circumstances for those boundaries not to be expanded, to remain the way they are.

Under Bill 42, when the Minister of Justice introduced the bill, she pointed out, in talking about her own constituency, the constituency of Vancouver-Fraserview, that her constituency is the largest riding B.C. in terms of population, at nearly 63,000.

I know that many MLAs, under Bill 42, are going to be taking a little trip down memory lane, around their constituencies. I just want to point out that if you walk around the grounds of this Legislature and you walk out to the fountain at the back side of the Legislature, you'll

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notice that there are plaques commemorating the four areas that were amalgamated to create B.C. Each of those areas has a plaque and a description. One of those areas was called the Stikine Territory. It is represented by the wolf, and it's discussed on the plaque around the Tlingit and Tahltan territories.

[1410]

It was combined with the colony of British Columbia, the colony of Vancouver Island and the colony of the Queen Charlotte Islands in approximately 1862 to form the overall territory that eventually became British Columbia, when it joined Confederation. Stikine has a long history, as far as European context and European settlement goes in B.C.

A lot of the territory of Stikine had to do with protecting economic interests, and a lot had to do with various gold rushes. I had the opportunity to visit the exhibit at the Royal B.C. Museum called Gold Rush: El Dorado in B.C. I just had a chance to visit it over the lunch hour here. It's over October 31, so if any of you haven't seen that exhibit, it's well worth a look before the end of the month comes.

It pointed out the gold rush activities and how that was integral to the creation of B.C., the creation of Stikine and also the joining of the three colonies, at that point, in the Stikine territory into what has now become B.C.

That's a little walk down memory lane, in relation to Bill 42, about how we got to where we are today. Effective representation is at the core of Bill 42. As the Justice Minister pointed out, each of us will be talking quite a bit about our constituencies, and I'm not going to be any different. I want to describe the communication and transportation issues that underlie and underpin the reasoning of why one member representing 20,000 people is able to give effective representation compared to one member representing close to 63,000 people.

We'll start, once again, with the fact that after six years of representing Stikine, the honour and the privilege of representing the people of Stikine after the 2009 election and the 2013 election, I still haven't made it to every corner of the constituency. There are many areas of the constituency that don't have population centres, if you could even put it in those terms, and so there are very remote areas with nobody living in them that I haven't made it to.

I'd like to be able to make it to them. They're beautiful areas. I'm sure one day I'll phone up Victoria, people looking for me, and say: "Well, I'm sorry. I'll be in my constituency for two weeks, and you won't be able to get in touch with me because I'll be on the river. There will be no cell phones, and I won't be able to get to a telephone, and I won't be able to get to any kind of population centre. But I will still be in the constituency, having a look around on behalf of the people of Stikine."

The constituency. The first population centre is Atlin, approximately 300 people. It's up by the Yukon border. There's road access to Atlin, and it's about 2½, three hours from Whitehorse. That's the closest major city. Atlin was a result, originally, of European settlement from the Klondike gold rush. There were 10,000 people living there at one point in the gold rush days. And it's the headwaters of the Yukon River.

I want to mention this, just to give a sense the vastness of Stikine. The Yukon River terminates in the Bering Sea. As you move throughout the constituency of Stikine, you have rivers that feed the Mackenzie system that terminate in the Arctic Ocean, and then as you head further south, you have important rivers like the Skeena that terminate in the Pacific. So the Arctic Ocean, the Bering Sea, the Pacific — all fed by rivers that originate in the glaciers and the mountains of Stikine.

Atlin doesn't have…. In talking about effective representation, they're not a municipality. They're not part of a regional district. They have formed something called the improvement district, Atlin community improvement district. When they try to make representations, oftentimes their services are located in the Yukon, with joint agreements between B.C. and the Yukon.

[1415]

Other times they have to access centres such as Terrace, which is over 1,000 kilometres south — very north from here but still over 1,000 kilometres south. They need an effective voice, the people of Atlin, in the Legislature here, which I try to do on their behalf, because they are far away from the decision-making centres.

Atlin is also within the traditional territories of the Taku River Tlingit. When I talked earlier about the Stikine territory, of course that was a European set of lines on the map, but all of Stikine is on the traditional territories of a number of First Nations. As I go through this today, already my time is ticking away so quickly, and I haven't even made it south of the Yukon border, barely.

Once we get through Atlin, which is Taku River Tlingit territory…. There is a band office in the community beside Atlin, the Tlingit community. The Tlingit are also governed by a hereditary system that was very influential in the Atlin-Taku land use plan, which was a positive undertaking, I must say, by the government. Unfortunately, it was the last land use plan that they decided to do. More of that needs to be done. But the hereditary system was influential in that land use plan.

Atlin has an antiquated telephone system. If they want to get in touch with their MLA, it can be difficult to do. They don't have cell phone service. Their transportation is a one-way dirt road out to the B.C. border, about 30 or 40 kilometres north of town.

I get to Atlin approximately once a year, sometimes twice a year, but again, when you're talking about effective representation, there are ways to do that through modern communication means. As I said, Atlin doesn't have a lot of the newest technology when it comes to telephone relay switches and those kinds of things, but in the north, as well…

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I don't doubt that this is not the case in urban areas, as well, but in the north, especially, we like to do business in person. We like to do business by developing a personal relationship. So that represents some challenges when you can only get to some of the communities about once a year in an area such as Stikine, which is so large.

If you head to the east from Atlin and drive about 473 kilometres, you get to the next population centre in Stikine: Lower Post. There are about 100 people in Lower Post.

Hon. A. Wilkinson: Telegraph Creek.

D. Donaldson: Oh, okay. We want to get down to Telegraph, because it is such a large constituency.

We head to Lower Post, and then we come back to Highway 97. We'll head south. Lower Post and Good Hope Lake are in Kaska territory. That's the First Nations territory that we're in now. Again, we haven't had cell phone service for, oh, I don't know, maybe five, six hours, maybe longer. The telephone booths are few and far between, so if a person wanted to pick up the phone and talk to their MLA, that would be difficult. Again, I get to some of these places once a year.

The member opposite wanted us to get to Telegraph Creek, and I really want to talk about Telegraph Creek as well.

Hon. A. Wilkinson: And Glenora.

D. Donaldson: And Glenora, a beautiful community downstream from Telegraph Creek.

I wanted to emphasize that people are keen to see their representative when I show up. We hold town hall meetings. We hold meetings in people's houses. I go visit where people are gathering, naturally — in Glenora, for instance, downstream from Telegraph Creek, where the Tahltan have a fish camp. We're in Tahltan territory now, by the way.

The last time I was in Telegraph Creek was late August. It was a trip that I made there. Along with Dease Lake and Iskut, I was in Telegraph Creek. I wanted to get a feeling for what was on people's minds before returning to the Legislature for this fall session.

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A supporter, a long-time regional district representative there — I found him in the village of Telegraph Creek. We sat down to talk, and he goes: "Oh, it must be fall." The end of August is fall in Telegraph Creek. "The ducks are heading south, and the politicians are heading north." It shows you how difficult it is to visit constituents in these communities and to get to know what's on their minds. As he was pointing out, it's about once a year and close to the fall that I'm able to get to these communities.

Telegraph Creek is a very, very isolated community. It's a beautiful Tahltan community, but it's another 130 kilometres off of the Stewart-Cassiar Highway from Dease Lake, and it's a rugged road. I can tell you that. For a constituent, for example, from Telegraph Creek to drop by my constituency office would take them…. For a sit-down visit to exchange views person to person for me to be able to relay their story in the best possible way to a chamber like we are in today, that's probably about a nine-hour drive one way, to come and to see me in my Hazelton MLA office.

By the way, not unlike a few members in this chamber, because of the vastness and the geographically distributed communities, I have two MLA offices in order to provide effective representation. That's the first time that that's been done in the constituency of Stikine — the first time an MLA has decided to put two MLA offices in place.

One of them is in Hazelton, where we service, from an MLA office perspective, the communities to the west and north, all the way up to Atlin. That office serves the bulk of the northern communities. And then we have an office in Smithers, which is the only town — in other words, a community over 5,000 — in Stikine. We have an office in Smithers that services the Smithers catchment area as well as communities to the east like Telkwa and the rural residents around Quick.

Again, we're in Telegraph Creek, and we're still heading south. We're still nine hours away from the nearest MLA office. We're in Tahltan territory. We pass through Iskut. Again, we still don't have cell service. We're still a day's drive away from many of the amenities and, really, government — the provincial government offices that most people can access within an hour or two, at the most. We come down through the territory of the Tahltan and end up in Stewart, a port.

The Stewart World Port recently opened, in September. I was able to attend that opening ceremony. There are two ports now in Stewart. There's plenty of potential activity to go on. But again, Stewart doesn't have cell service, which is an impediment to increasing business and improving business development. And it has….

Hon. A. Wilkinson: Meziadin. Iskut.

D. Donaldson: Well, we had Meziadin. I was through Iskut already. Yeah. Don't forget about Iskut. Don't forget about Meziadin — and Bell II, another community. Bob Quinn is still alive and kicking, to a certain extent.

So we get down to Stewart, and Stewart has not only cell phone issues but also transportation considerations. There's some heavy-duty avalanche slide pass on Highway 37A, I believe it is. Stewart-Cassiar is Highway 37. This is a branch off it. Oftentimes the road is closed in the wintertime, but the avalanche techs and the highway crews do a great job up there.

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The Stewart area also has needs when it comes to a reliable source of electricity. They were out for four or five days last year. Most of the time it's pretty good service, but

[ Page 9908 ]

they're looking for a solution to that through B.C. Hydro being able to switch onto the Long Lake power project.

So Stewart. Then we come into Gitanyow territory further south along Highway 37. Gitanyow is an amazing place. The voter turnout in Gitanyow was quite incredible in the last federal election and increased by over 50 percent.

Again, though, the considerations that Bill 42 suggests about keeping Stikine boundaries the same through the Electoral Boundaries Commission are…. Gitanyow is a good example. They have no public transit to link them to the MLA office or to services that the provincial government provides in places like Hazelton, Smithers or Terrace, so it's very difficult for people there to access those services.

You get through the Kitwanga valley and into Gitwangak. Again, we're in Gitksan country now. Then we hit Highway 16. The documented public transportation issues along Highway 16 are well known to this Legislature. Again, if somebody wants to make an appointment and come in to see me at my MLA office in Hazelton, it presents a tremendous challenge.

Then heading east along Highway 16, we go through Gitsegukla, another Gitksan village, through South Hazelton — we're now in the regional district of Kitimat-Stikine — through New Hazelton, a municipality, and then down into the place where I live and where a concentration of the population is, between New Hazelton, Hagwilget, Two Mile, Gitanmaax and Hazelton. Those are areas represented by one regional district, two municipalities, two First Nations reserves and three hereditary territories.

[R. Lee in the chair.]

Even when you're in a population centre, so to speak, in Stikine, it's still very difficult for people to sort through the right avenue for an issue they might be facing. So even more so, they're dependent on coming to our MLA office in Hazelton to help sort through where the lines are and who is the responsible authority — whether it's a regional district, a municipality, a First Nations reserve, a traditional territory or the provincial government. And that's all within seven kilometres.

We have a project that got completed through efforts of all those jurisdictions I just spoke about called the Eagle Down Trail. It's a trail, seven to eight kilometres, that connects all those communities. As you walk seven kilometres, you go through that many jurisdictions — regional district, two municipalities, two reserves and three hereditary territories. Even when we're in a more populated area, there's still a lot to be worked out through access to our MLA office.

As we head back out of Hazelton and through Hagwilget…. I don't know how many members have been up in Stikine, but we cross Hagwilget Bridge. It's a suspension bridge. It's a one-way bridge, and it gets over 2,600 one-way traffic counts per day, even more than Highway 16.

You know, we talk about bridges often in this Legislature in relation to the busy, well-populated

part in the Lower Mainland. Here we have a single-lane bridge that has a hospital on one side and major population centres in Hagwilget and New Hazelton — major for Stikine, that is — on the other, and a major highway, Highway 16.

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When that bridge is out, which happens sometimes when there's an accident or we've had occasions when logging trucks have hit the superstructure of the bridge and damaged it, then transportation is an issue.

So again, those communication and transportation topics — highlighted as a reason for Bill 42 to be able to consider the Electoral Boundaries Commission's recommendation around keeping Stikine boundaries the same even though we're well below the provincial average in population — are there.

We head out now, back onto Highway 16, through some of the more eastern communities in Stikine. We leave Gitxsan territory. We haven't even touched on the Kispiox Valley, by the way; or Kispiox village, Anspa'yaxw; or Glen Vowell; or the regional district unincorporated area that I live in, Two Mile. Two Mile is about 500 people in rural acreages and multiple lots.

There's a sign as you come through Two Mile saying it's "Traditionally non-conforming." That is the motto of the people who live in Two Mile, where I live. Traditionally non-conforming.

Then we get back out east, and we head into Wet’suwet’en territory. So now we've been through Taku River Tlingit, Kaska, Tahltan, Gitanyow, Gitxsan, and now we're into Wet’suwet’en territory.

In fact, coming down between — a colleague across the way mentioned Meziadin — Meziadin and Gitanyow, there's the Cranberry connector that heads over towards the Nass Valley. Stikine takes in a bit of that road, the Cranberry connector, which eventually end up in Nisga’a territory as well.

By the way, the Cranberry connector is the alternate route if the road between Kitwanga and Terrace is closed — Highway 16. The only other way is to go up the Nass, come across the Cranberry connector and come down Highway 37 to Highway 16.

In the past, there've been landslides that have cut off Highway 16 — a tragic one a few years ago where two people died. For days, the road was blocked, and the alternate route was to go through there.

We hit Smithers, the only town in Stikine, meaning it's over 5,000 people. A little further east is Telkwa, about 1,500 people, and then the area of Quick, which is the most eastern part of Stikine and a rural, more agricultural area.

We've come over approximately 1,500 kilometres drive now from Atlin to the area of Quick. It has taken about

[ Page 9909 ]

20 hours straight, if you can do it straight. It just shows that, for reasons of transportation, for reasons of communication, for reasons of geography, I'm very happy that under Bill 42, we are able to keep the boundaries of Stikine the same for the upcoming election and the election after that. For effective representation, I think I've made the case that it cannot be any bigger.

L. Larson: I rise in support of Bill 42, the Electoral Districts Act. The Electoral Boundaries Commission recommendations have taken on the difficult issue of balancing the growing populations in the Lower Mainland against the geographically larger and smaller populations in rural British Columbia.

The riding of Boundary-Similkameen is one of the 48 districts changed by Bill 42. It will add the community of Princeton to the Boundary-Similkameen riding. The riding currently ends nine kilometres east of Princeton.

Extensive consultations were done in the region by the commission. It was apparent that the status quo was not a fair balance of numbers. From a regional district perspective, Princeton is a good fit for the riding. Princeton is the only community belonging to the regional district of Okanagan-Similkameen that was outside the boundaries of the Boundary-Similkameen riding.

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The riding will become further diversified economically by the addition of Princeton and Copper Mountain. The riding has forestry on its eastern boundary, and agriculture is predominant in the middle.

I currently represent 17 communities, all with populations of less than 5,000 people, as well as two regional districts and three school districts. In my previous life as a mayor and member of the board of the regional district of Okanagan-Similkameen, I became familiar with the geography and the people of the Princeton area and look forward to renewing old friendships under the new riding umbrella.

Most provinces, like British Columbia, struggle with how to get quality representation for all their population without creating extreme geographic challenges for those elected to those positions. The commission has done an excellent job of balancing geography against population density. I am confident that all the people of British Columbia will be served well under this legislation.

M. Elmore: I am very pleased to stand and speak to Bill 42, the Electoral Districts Act, just having recently spoken to the motion on the floor with respect to the final report. I'm very pleased to speak on behalf of constituents, representing Vancouver-Kensington. It's a great honour to represent the area and to be re-elected to my second term.

With respect to Bill 42, the Electoral Districts Act, it is governed by the principle of representation by population and that each MLA should, to the greatest degree possible, represent a similar number of constituents. Having said that, we know that the reality, in terms of…. The demographic and geographical makeup of British Columbia is quite diverse, and we have a real range of constituencies represented, from urban to rural to suburban. Certainly, there's a challenge with respect to balancing the number of individuals in each electoral district and ensuring that voters across the province are treated equally.

It's an exercise that's undertaken every two electoral terms. We know that population growth is not uniform across the province and that periodic reviews of the boundaries ensure that representation of constituents by MLAs remains both equitable and effective in all areas of the province.

We heard previously from my colleague from Stikine. Certainly, representing his area is quite challenging compared to Vancouver-Kensington. I know he outlined the areas that he represents and also the challenges and the realities around travelling — just making it across the broad expanses of his constituency, and representing constituents. It takes him many hours of continuous driving to travel from one end of his constituency to the other — travel for days, also, with respect to the challenge of travelling to remote communities. That certainly is a challenge and a reality that's faced by many MLAs on both sides of the House who represent rural ridings.

It's prescribed in the Electoral Boundaries Commission Act that a new Electoral Boundaries Commission must be established after every second general election to propose changes to the area, changes to the boundaries and possible changes to the names of the electoral districts of British Columbia. In our last election, 2013, we had 85 constituencies. Since the last review of the electoral boundaries in 2008, which came into effect in the 2009 election, we're now mandated to revisit and to re-evaluate those electoral boundaries.

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The commission was appointed on May 9, 2014. Three distinguished members — Mr. Justice Thomas Melnick, justice of the Supreme Court of British Columbia; Beverley Busson, the former commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; and Keith Archer, the Chief Electoral Officer for the province of British Columbia. The commission undertook public hearings and travelled the province.

I think it is also important to recognize and also appreciate the efforts that the commission undertook: seeking public advice and input and really engaging individuals, communities, associations and organizations across the province to seek recommendations and feedback with respect to prospective changes. That's an important aspect and component of our democracy that needs to be held and respected also, fundamentally for the citizens of British Columbia to have confidence in the transparency and to trust that recommendations coming forward certainly have taken in all considerations and delibera-

[ Page 9910 ]

tions have been weighed and that rational decisions govern the recommendations coming out of the final report.

I think, with respect to the recommendations we have in the bill, Bill 42 — the recommendation to expand our number of seats from 85 to 87 in the faster-growing areas, in the urban centres of Surrey and also in New Westminster and Richmond, and some other changes — that citizens can be assured that their recommendations were taken to heart and, certainly, that these recommendations stand and have the authority and represent the wishes of British Columbians and make the case for improving the representation here of us all in the chambers in the Legislative Assembly.

The proposals, not only in terms of feedback from the public, are also governed and guided by the Electoral Boundaries Commission Act and additionally by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms in addition to the submissions from British Columbians. That's important, because that also supports the legitimacy and also the confidence of British Columbians.

We hear with some unease the term we're familiar with, gerrymandering, which is deliberately changing electoral boundaries for partisan gain and to benefit a certain political party who is in power. Certainly, it's important to ensure that that process is not taking place in our midst, and certainly, Bill 42 withstands that test.

We know in previous history, and it's been outlined by previous colleagues, of the infamous instance of gerrymandering here in British Columbia, typically referred to as Gracie's finger, in Vancouver in the 1980s. Certainly, that stands out as a very blatant example of how the process should not be undertaken.

After every second provincial general election, a new Electoral Boundaries Commission is appointed to propose changes to our provincial electoral boundaries. We had a very capable commission with three members, who I have mentioned, and I also want to thank them for their service and their hard work and their measured recommendations.

[1445]

I just wanted to lay out the principles in terms of the process around the recommendations coming forward from Bill 42, and then I'd also like to get into what that means, particularly for Vancouver-Kensington, and also talk about that in terms of the historical context of the boundaries of Kensington, the historical communities and also the meaning for those constituents that I represent in my constituency.

The right to vote and population equality is the underlying principle that guides the process. The Supreme Court of Canada's decision in the Saskatchewan reference in 1991 provides guidance to electoral boundary commissions as to the standards for relative equality of voting power amongst citizens, with respect to

section 3 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is addressing the fundamental right of citizens to vote but also ensuring that the respective strength of citizens to vote is also equal and not unduly weighted.

It's not an easy challenge, as I mentioned previously, certainly in terms of the discrepancy and just the scope of our province and the challenges of geography and large areas, particularly in our rural constituencies, vis-à-vis population density, which we see, certainly, concentrated in Metro Vancouver. But that is the challenge that is laid out, and the guidelines to make those decisions and determinations are what faced the commission in terms of their recommendations.

The right to vote and population equality — that's laid out. Guidelines have been established by the Supreme Court of Canada's decision. The issue of effective representation is germane to that. In some areas, we have small populations and unequal population growth. There are some guiding principles around how to determine and balance those concerns.

We have also what is referred to as the electoral quotient, which I want to address. This is a guideline where the electoral quotient is the average population for an electoral district, and it's calculated by dividing the provincial population by the number of electoral districts. With the recommended 87 electoral districts proposed in Bill 42…. We have, with a population in British Columbia of roughly 4.6 million, an electoral quotient of just over 53,000 — 53,119. That is the quotient, and the deviation that is allowed is…. The Electoral Boundaries Commission Act permits electoral districts within regions to be within plus or minus 25 percent.

Vancouver-Kensington, I note, has, as of 2014, a population just over 61,000 — 61,250. It has a deviation over the quotient of 15.3 percent, so it certainly falls within that range. Vancouver-Kensington has not seen changes to the boundaries or to the name. Everything is pretty much standing status quo. I expect, in the future, certainly, in terms of the challenges around development…. We're seeing densification in Vancouver and in the region. That will be, certainly in the future, a challenge to be addressed by future commissions but not for this time around.

While we consider the electoral quotient, there is also the issue of not only the population but the size of the area. Those were some of the challenges that were undertaken. While we see that there were two new electoral districts added, there were changes….

[1450]

We've heard colleagues from both sides of the House talk about respective changes to 48 of their districts.

J. Yap: I seek leave to leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

J. Yap: I'm delighted that we have some students from my riding, Richmond-Steveston, visiting us today from

[ Page 9911 ]

the great school, Steveston-London Secondary. This morning there was a group of 22 students led by teacher Mr. Edwin Yu. Right now we have a group of 21 students led by Jennifer Girard, with Matthew Girard also here, as a chaperone. Later there will be another group led by Stephanie Christie.

But right now we have this group of 21 students who are here, many for the very first time, to visit the people's House, our great parliamentary precincts. Would members of the Legislature please give this group of students, our future leaders, a great and warm welcome.

Debate Continued

M. Elmore: To continue with comments on Bill 42, the Electoral Districts Act, I want to now shift and talk about the history of Vancouver-Kensington and some of the characteristics, some of the neighbourhoods that make up the electoral district — what I think really inform and give that vibrant character that we see in Vancouver-Kensington, which is so special.

At the centre of community activity is the Kensington Community Centre. It's celebrating its 60th anniversary this year, and we're going to be having the celebration soon. Kensington Community Centre Association is very active. I know other community centres in other areas play such a vital role. I think that Kensington Community Centre really leads in terms of bringing the community together in that scene, with the participation of volunteers from the community and the many activities and events that happen at the community centre.

They are looking, also, to the future and investing in improvements, as well, in Jones Park and Grays Park. One of the programs that's very well utilized and is important for the area, for Vancouver-Kensington, is their child care facility. They're also working to improve and expand that facility.

It's a great facility. They have new fitness equipment and have also recently renovated. They're very active with youth leaders and engaging youth in programs. Look forward to their annual events that they have every year. A Halloween party is coming up and, with the Christmas season, a breakfast with Santa and a holiday craft fair — and an Easter egg hunt. It's a very vibrant and dynamic hub for the community. It's always great to go there and see the dedicated staff and volunteers — just a very positive organization.

Also making up very dynamic participants for Vancouver-Kensington are the neighbourhood groups, which are very active and have a number of initiatives. We have the Dickens Community Group. It was formed in the year 2000, and it has an incredible number — more than 2,000 members — on their listserv. They keep in touch, keep in contact with each other, give updates and are very active. It really helps to provide that community cohesion. They're a very active group and do great work, and I'm always very pleased to join their many activities and events that they organize throughout the year.

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We have the Livingstone Neighbours, and they also have a listserv and send out regular updates. The South Hill Neighbours, who have incorporated as a society. They've got a website, monthly e-newsletters and many community development projects. They've undertaken great leadership on the South Hill stories project, where they interviewed individuals who've lived in the area, in South Vancouver, who either have had longstanding businesses or have lived in the area, and put that on an interactive site, bringing to life the living history of Vancouver-Kensington. That's a great initiative.

Also, a very dynamic neighbourhood group that always continues to amaze me with their great work is the Mountain View Neighbourhood group. They recently held their 15th annual barbecue. They've got a website. They've got a Twitter account, as do the South Hill Neighbours. And Mountain View has really distinguished itself. They've undertaken a project that's called the Vancouver street stories, which is another initiative to really bring out the history, particularly around Fraser Street, and bring that to life.

They partnered with the Cedar Cottage Neighbourhood House and also, with support of the city of Vancouver, to design street banners, which they put up. They've also designed and installed street plaques, which are digital. A component of that is digital placemaking. They have installed physical plaques along Fraser Street and one on Victoria Drive, talking about the local history in the area. It's a great way to really bring that to life. Vancouver-Kensington is very diverse now. We've seen such an evolution of communities and individuals and businesses. Some have a historical root there, and in some areas we've seen a lot of transition.

This project with the Vancouver street stories — the plaques that mark the history and share that — is a great way to anchor. I think it's important to anchor the community to that history. Of course, there's an open invitation for members to come through and to visit any time. They're welcome to visit me and drop in for a coffee in my office, whoever's interested, and to walk along Fraser Street and view some of these plaques that lay out the really interesting history of Fraser Street, of South Vancouver and of the area.

There are plaques that talk about the lost streams of Vancouver. I heard the comments from members on both sides, from rural areas talking about the great forests and natural resources that are there, and that was also the story of Vancouver. It wasn't that long ago that Vancouver was a forest and, also, that Vancouver was home to over 50 wild salmon streams. Today we don't see those salmon streams through Vancouver-Kensington. Many of them have been covered over. Some of the streams are underground, but that was certainly part of the history.

[ Page 9912 ]

There were also, along Fraser Street — very interesting — the first streetcars, the first public transportation in Vancouver. The city of Vancouver started as a logging village, one block long, along the edge of Burrard Inlet. The streetcars first came in on Fraser Street. That's interesting, as well. There's a website with great photos. That's something that I always appreciate, particularly — looking at the historic photos of Vancouver and, particularly, in Vancouver-Kensington.

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As well, we've got, as part of the Vancouver street stories project, the marking of the Ruth Morton Memorial Baptist Church and the Sir Richard McBride Elementary School and annex. It's to mark the completion — after Sir Richard McBride drove the last spike — of the B.C. Electric Railway's Fraser Valley line to Chilliwack in 1910. We have two elementary schools that are named after Sir Richard McBride — the main elementary school and the annex.

I'm very pleased that the annex, which was challenged due to underfunding…. There was a real outcry from the community, and the community was able to rally and stop the closure of the annex — with the sustained underfunding that they've been receiving.

There's that history — as well as marking that Sir Richard McBride, at the age of 33, was the first Premier of British Columbia to be born in the province. There's certainly that.

We have Cedar Cottage Neighbourhood House, which I have mentioned — very vibrant, active and engaged staff and volunteers and, really, a hub for activity. I spoke earlier about the fourth annual Homelessness Action Week, which was just marked a couple of weeks ago in Vancouver-Kensington, with leadership and participation from the sponsoring organizations. Cedar Cottage Neighbourhood House is one of them — the John Howard Society, the Salvation Army, the Vancouver Public Library and also the city of Vancouver.

Great partnership, which I think is so important to bringing together the community. I think the leadership of these organizations is an important component of what makes Vancouver-Kensington such a welcoming place, a great place to live and work and a really strong and vibrant community. These are very positive organizations and important work that these community groups do.

It's interesting, as well, to understand the history of the area — of Vancouver as a whole, Vancouver-Kensington specifically — and also where these organizations come out to inform the challenges that we have today, ensuring that individuals come together and are included and can participate fully.

I want to mention that also in Vancouver-Kensington, we have Mountain View Cemetery, which has the distinction of being Vancouver's only cemetery. It opened in 1886. Believe it or not, it's also a very popular place for walking tours to go through. They're well-subscribed and very interesting as well — the history of the cemetery.

As well, they hold an annual…. They just celebrated their 11th annual night for All Souls' Day — marking, through different cultures, the night of the dead, Night for All Souls. There is lantern-making and also a procession through the cemetery, with different activities that happen there as well. Certainly, that cemetery has, really, a history since Vancouver was incorporated as a municipality and continues to be a very interesting place for the history and for folks participating in walking tours and other events and activities.

We have, as well, South Memorial Park, which is a large park, a beautiful park just down from my office, just behind my office. It's a beautiful place to go. Many facilities there as well.

They hold the annual Remembrance Day ceremony at the cenotaph, which is very popular. We have also a march that gathers at John Oliver high school and proceeds down to the cenotaph to mark November 11, Remembrance Day Every year it's better, and certainly more individuals are participating.

[1505]

It's also a very important event to mark and recognize the sacrifice of veterans in building our country. We have, as well, a number of Legions in the area, which participate and are very active not only in Remembrance Day activities but in engaging the communities. They hold events for Canada Day and are regular areas that individuals attend. You can get a good deal for lunch, and they have weekly meat draws — very active in the community.

As well, in South Memorial Park we have the distinction of also hosting the South Vancouver Little League Baseball. I am just so proud that they're the 2014 Canada Little League champions.

When I was first elected, I had a meeting with some parents who came to my office. They said: "Mable, we have a challenge. We've got a league, the South Vancouver Little League Baseball. They're the only league in Metro Vancouver that doesn't have a batting cage." I said, "Well, we have to fix that," because we had the Hastings group that had previously been the champions. So I said: "We need to get a batting cage for our Little League so we can become the Canadian champions and go to the World Series."

I was pleased to work with them and, with support from the Vancouver park board, to establish and set up a batting cage there. That was just great. They're great. Of course, the Little League is very active and engaged.

We also have the first Vancouver co-housing project, located at 33rd Avenue near Victoria Drive — very excited about that — and the Tupper neighbourhood greenway, which is one city block long, at Tupper high school. That was planted in March 2008 to heal the community, with the tragic death on the school grounds in 2003 of Jomar Lanot. That continues to be an area that attracts a lot of dedicated community volunteers and is really an important part of the community.

[ Page 9913 ]

We have the first country lane, created in 2003 in the 700 block between east 27th and east 28th Avenue. It's the only one in Vancouver, and it's a great place. I encourage you to go and take a look at it.

We have a community newspaper, the REVUE , and our Vancouver-Kensington resident Rod Raglin is the publisher and editor, in the 38th year.

Schools, great events, Main Street car-free day, Pinoy Fiesta— just a terrific neighbourhood.

D. Plecas: Today we are speaking again about the work of the Electoral Boundaries Commission, but more importantly, we're speaking on the legislation that will adopt all of its recommendations. We are here to speak about Bill 42, the Electoral Districts Act.

Members of this House who spoke about the work of the Electoral Boundaries Commission went into detail about the ridings they represent and spoke about differences between representing urban versus rural ridings. It was a great opportunity to hear about what's special about each riding in this province and about some of the special challenges faced by people in rural ridings.

Now we want to ensure that all British Columbians are effectively represented, both urban and rural areas of the province. The work of the Electoral Boundaries Commission found that balance to ensure effective representation for all British Columbians. This is especially important because our province has a dense and growing urban area, and we also have the more remote northern and rural areas.

As we also know, this bill will increase B.C.'s electoral districts by two, to bring it to 87 districts. These two ridings will be in Surrey and Richmond–New Westminster. Of course, this reflects the growing population in these areas. As more people move to British Columbia to take advantage of our growing economy, the work of the commission will continue to be important to ensuring that the electoral districts are appropriately distributed.

[1510]

Forty-eight districts will see boundary changes for the next two scheduled elections, in 2017 and in 2020-21. Although these changes are substantial, in some ways, for a few districts, such as the Fraser Valley, Hope-Princeton area and Comox Valley and Mid–Vancouver Island regions, for the most part, around the province, the changes are minor. This is certainly true for my own riding of Abbotsford South.

When it comes to representing British Columbians throughout the province, each district has its own challenges. Again, as we've heard from all members, urban and suburban districts, on average, have more people than rural districts do. It is generally easier for an MLA to represent and serve their constituents because the population is concentrated in a much smaller area, while the representatives of the more remote and rural ridings have to travel much further to meet their constituents and to represent their views in this House, as we are elected to do.

We recognize that it is important that citizens in less densely populated and geographically large districts be effectively represented by MLAs. That is why we are making sure that the current districts in the north, the Cariboo-Thompson and Columbia-Kootenay regions are preserved. We want to ensure that these areas are not at risk of losing representation and that they retain the existing number of electoral districts.

This is not an easy task — to balance democratic representation with geography. Finding this balance was a task the Electoral Boundaries Commission undertook. Every province grapples with how best to manage the urban-rural divide. The larger provinces, especially, have rules for exceptional circumstances, including how to best accommodate rural areas.

B.C. is no exception. The act has always permitted commissions to go beyond the 25 percent population deviation rule in special circumstances. This is not a new situation in B.C. — to have districts outside the threshold. The commission continues to do a good job of balancing population and taking community interests into account.

Throughout the process of electoral boundary changes, politics was not even a consideration for government in preparing this legislation. This government is proposing legislation that is exactly what the independent commission recommended. I want to again thank the members of the commission for their hard work to ensure that all British Columbians are effectively represented.

R. Austin: It's my pleasure to get up and rise and speak to the bill that follows the motion that we have just dealt with, that formally brings into the Legislature the report that has been brought forward by the Boundaries Commission. I am very delighted to speak in favour of this, as I think every member of this House will do.

It's important to note that what the bill does is it recognizes the challenges that we all face in British Columbia, which is to make sure that our boundaries are fair, that we have fair representation in the sense that those parts of the province that have very large and dense populations are balanced out with those of us who live in either suburban or, in my case, very rural parts of the province. That is a huge challenge.

I'm glad to say that I have listened to a lot of the debate that has happened over the past several days. One of the things that's very interesting is that it doesn't matter whether you hear an MLA speak about their particular constituency that is very dense and comes from a large city, whether you hear an MLA speak from a suburban area, or whether you hear someone speak from a place like mine, which has a lot of geography and fewer people. We all seem to speak in unison with the acknowledgment that everybody in British Columbia has a right to be represented properly.

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[ Page 9914 ]

Whether you are an MLA who's representing 60,000 people and live in a situation where your 60,000 residents can either walk to your office, or you could bicycle around your constituency or have easy access to them, or whether you are an MLA like myself that has to drive, in some cases, several hours to meet with a constituent, the important thing that we need to have here is to ensure that every British Columbian feels that they have willing access to their MLA.

My riding of Skeena is one, as I've mentioned, that has a great deal of geography. In the northern part of my riding, I have a portion of an aboriginal territory. I say that because it's kind of a little bit unique. A lot of MLAs have First Nations living within their ridings, and of course they represent them here in Victoria. I am a little bit unique in the sense that I represent an aboriginal band, a nation, who have been able to have their own treaty passed right here in this Legislature and then that same treaty passed in Ottawa. I am unique in the sense that I represent a group, the Nisga'a Nation, where they can speak for themselves on a government-to-government basis.

It has been one of the great delights, and I think one of the great privileges and something of great pride for all of us who are on this side of the House, that we worked long and hard to bring into place something that took many, many years. In fact, the Nisga'a — to say that they are patient people would be a huge understatement.

The road that goes from Terrace up into the Nass Valley to the four communities of the Nisga'a Nation has a significant number on it. It has the number of Highway 113. In fact, this is not something that was just chosen at random. As part of the signing of the Nisga'a treaty, one of the things that the Nisga'a were asked to do was to name this road and to give it its number. They consequently chose the Nisga'a Highway, which makes sense, seeing as this road, as it extends north past Terrace and out into the more regional areas, ends up going only into the Nass Valley.

The reason why they gave the number 113 is because from the time that the Nisga'a first sat in Greenville, or Laxgalts'ap, as it is known in Nisga'a…. When a group of people first sat down and decided that what they would like to do is overthrow the cloak of colonialism and get the rights to their own territory, it took 113 years, which is quite extraordinary.

We have lots of debates in here about moving treaties forward and how complicated that is and how it gets bogged down with a lot of legalistic work that has to happen. When you consider that the Nisga'a Nation, as a people, were willing to work for this for several generations and not rise up and get frustrated and use any kinds of tactics that were undemocratic, they actually used whatever manner they could within the law to try and move their process forward.

There have been some incredible decisions that have come about for lots of First Nations and, indeed, indigenous groups all around the world as a result of some of the work that happened during the Nisga'a treaty. I'm going to mention just one piece of important legislation, or legal statement.

In 1973, there was a very important case that went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, and it was named after a member, a chief within the Nass Valley — Frank Calder. The case became known as the Calder case in 1973. What this case did was it set a precedent stating that the Nisga'a had a right to territory that had always been theirs.

They have lived there for thousands of years. They could prove that they lived there for thousands of years. The Calder case that was won in the Supreme Court by a lawyer who is known to many members of this Legislature, Justice Berger, enabled them to move forward and to ultimately be successful in having the Nisga'a treaty.

[1520]

That case emanated from my riding of Skeena, and had an effect around the world. If you look at what the Aborigines in Australia have had to go through to try and get the same kind of success that indigenous peoples here in British Columbia have done…. It was cases like the Calder case that were used as a precedent in Australia to move forward Aborigine rights and title there, with the big decision that was made in 1992, the Mabo decision.

There is a lot of history in my riding. It is not just the Nisga'a. We have other First Nations groups who have lived there for millennia. In Terrace, I am very fortunate to represent two First Nations — one on the west side of Terrace called Kitsumkalum, and just to the east of Terrace the Gitselasu or the Kitselas First Nation. These are also, in many ways, kind of related to the Nisga'a in the sense that they have intermarried over the generations. They are also a people who….

Because we live inland, people think of some of the First Nations in my riding as not being coastal. But in fact, if you look at the history of First Nations like Kitsumkalum and Kitselas, they also are connected to the coastline. One of the interesting things is that many inland bands along the Skeena River — who are situated, in some cases, 150 kilometres or, in some cases, more than that inland — also had the rights to go and to gather food and resources off the coast of Prince Rupert, amongst all the islands there.

In fact, there are some very interesting facts that have come about as a result of these two First Nations also proceeding through the treaty process. For example, the people of Kitsumkalum not only fished at the mouth of the Skeena River and in the general area of Prince Rupert, but they lived there for many, many years. They were in fact moved from just inside the mouth of the Skeena River all the way over to Terrace as a result of a fire that took place, I believe it was in the 1960s, in Port Essington.

The people of Kitsumkalum were essentially a seafaring First Nations who lived off the ocean and had a com-

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munity called Port Essington that was built kind of on stilts, just on the side, on the coast of the Skeena River. They made their living by collecting food and by processing it. They actually had several plants that processed the fish right in their community, right in their village. Interestingly enough, this plant didn't just have aboriginal people living there. It wasn't just First Nations in Kitsumkalum that lived there. They also had other people who brought skills to this plant.

For example, there was a Japanese community that lived in Port Essington. You might ask why. Well, of course, just like the First Nations of the northwest coast, the Japanese themselves have relied on the food that surrounds their country. As a result, Japanese people who moved to Canada after European contact went necessarily to live in places where they could bring the skills that they had from their country.

So there was a small Japanese population that lived amongst the First Nations there. That is why, amongst the people of Kitsumkalum, you will also find Japanese surnames, because they intermarried with the First Nations and formed great relations and have brought those cultural values also to our First Nations.

If you go further south down my riding, we come to another group who I am very proud to represent, the Haisla Nation. The Haisla Nation also have a very interesting history. Not only have they been there for millennia, but they also were combined many years ago with another First Nations group to the south who were almost wiped out by disease. As a result of measles and other diseases, they decided that they would give up their traditional territory where they were living — it was very remote — and moved to one side of the Douglas Channel to become part of the Haisla Nation.

[1525]

The Haisla Nation are very, very successful and are very forward-looking in their thinking. They have taken huge advantage of some of the economic opportunities which one would hope would come to all First Nations who live in northern B.C.

One of the very difficult things, not just in my riding but across northern ridings that have large numbers of aboriginal people living in them, is that they are very remote. Some of these First Nations are so remote that they are, to all extents and purposes, removed from the mainstream economy. That is the challenge. That's part of the reason why we see a lot of inequality in terms of opportunity — opportunity for learning, for education; opportunities for health care; opportunities to participate in what we would all know as the modern economy.

At one time, it didn't matter to them. Being remote and living off the land meant that they could still have very successful and fruitful lives. But in the times we are in now, it's much more of a challenge. We understand, all of us who work here and all of us who have children and all of us who have grandchildren, that one of the most essential things in a modern economy is to have education and skills that enable you to go and become part of that modern economy.

The Haisla, because of where they are located, are blessed. They have, of course, existed on one side of the Douglas Channel, with the community of Kitimat on the other side of the Douglas Channel. Kitimat, even though it's a very remote, small town, has been blessed to have a major industry around which the community of Kitimat has been able to grow since its inception.

Kitimat is a very interesting community. It was essentially carved out of the wilderness. It did not exist until the late 1940s, early 1950s, when the government of the day here in British Columbia decided that in order to try and increase the population of northwest B.C., in order to try and diversify from what was at that time the only industrial activity in northwest B.C. — namely, logging — they would try and bring a new industry into the province and into the northwest.

It sounds absolutely incredible, but what they decided at that time was to essentially give a river to a private company and allow them to build a structure that would essentially change the direction of a river and create a large reservoir, which they could then use to power electrical generators.

Now, remember, this is 1950 we're talking about. In so doing, what they did was they allowed, at that time, the Aluminum Co. of Canada to get access to this river and to build what was, at that time, the greatest engineering project anywhere in the world. I say that without any sense of hyperbole. They were able to create a massive reservoir, put a dam at the end of that and then dig a tunnel 2,600 metres down through rock to a series of generators that were put in a place called Kemano.

As a result of that…. If you could imagine, the generating house that was built into this rock was all done manually. It wasn't done with the great machinery we have today. It was done manually with jackhammers. The chamber is probably as big as this chamber. If you can imagine a gigantic room this big carved out of the rock with generators that probably span the width of this chamber…. It's 1950 we're talking about. It was probably finished around 1952, 1953. If you can imagine that being built, even today that would be extraordinary. But in those days, it was just amazing.

The reason I'm telling you this is because what it did was it created a brand-new industry that has been able to not only keep the citizens of Kitimat and many of the Haisla having good-paying jobs, but it has also brought huge economic activity to the whole of the northwest.

All of us here know full well that when you have a major project take place in a rural area, it isn't just the direct benefit to the town or area where that is built. In fact, there are all kinds of economic multipliers that speed out from that.

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The Haisla were able, as a result of being close to the people of Kitimat — in fact, they were there long before the Europeans arrived — to also access jobs and skills and education that came about as a result of this economic activity.

I mention Kitimat and Alcan for another reason, and that is this. We do not have many places in rural British Columbia where you have one company and one industry that have successfully endured for 60 years. We have just celebrated the 60th anniversary of the building of the aluminum smelter in British Columbia.

When I say it's visionary, think about this. To think in those days of making a river change direction to create a body of water big enough to drive generators — this is very visionary kind of stuff. If we were to come up today and think of some big industry that we could bring in here…. We've had lots of discussion here about the potential of LNG, but with the aluminum industry coming into Kitimat, the government of the day had a vision and actually brought it to fruition with the help of a lot of human capital, and it has successfully gone on.

In fact, as I speak to you today, the old smelter that was built in the 1950s is now gradually going to be shut down over the next little while. A brand-new smelter, which I have had the privilege to go and see as it was constructed…. I've had the privilege of going and seeing the first hot metal come off the potlines there.

It is a sight for sore eyes to recognize that this industry is moving forward with a brand-new smelter. If the old one is anything to go by — the last 60 years…. The new smelter that we now have gotten built in Kitimat will provide employment, exports out of British Columbia, huge tax revenues to the purse here, to the treasury here, as a result of all of this economic activity.

Because the water that drives Kemano is a renewable resource and because the electricity that comes from the Kemano power plant has essentially been paid for…. I mean, the capital project was paid for a long time ago. They've had to do upgrades now, which they are doing.

They are renovating a second tunnel that was originally built to try and expand Kemano. They have invested huge amounts of money in ensuring that the long-term future of the aluminum industry in my riding will continue by fixing up the secondary tunnel. Once you've had water flowing down for 60 years through the original tunnel, inevitably rocks and debris come down that tunnel, and that tunnel now is in need of repair.

The only way to maintain an aluminum industry is to keep the electricity going non-stop, obviously, and the only way to keep the plant going and people employed is to be able, at some point, to shut down the original tunnel in order to fix it. In order to do that, of course, you have to have a separate source of water, an alternative source of water, to drive those generators. You have a company that has been willing to invest to build or to upgrade the second tunnel and link it to the powerhouse in such a way that we now, I think and I hope, will see employment continue.

I mentioned that the Haisla have taken advantage of that. As a result of the aluminum industry coming in, we saw other industries come into the Kitimat area. At one time, we had a large Eurocan Pulp and Paper plant that was operating in my riding. When I first got elected, there was another large company called Methanex that was making methanol in my riding.

So while I represent a largely rural riding, I also have a very industrial base in one of my communities. All of us who live in Terrace and other parts of the riding can be thankful for that, because Kitimat is an end-of-the-road community. It doesn't go any further than that. It's at the mouth of the Douglas Channel. So all of the paycheques that come from the industrial activity that has taken place in Kitimat over the last number of years….

[1535]

Most of those paycheques…. Once people have paid for their housing costs and their heating, electricity and the basic needs of life, they spend those dollars not just in Kitimat but also in Terrace.

Terrace, over the last number of years since I got elected, has gone through some very, very challenging times. What we have found in Terrace is that…. We had a community that was built and fostered entirely around one industry originally. It was fostered around the forestry industry. It has a relatively short history, 75 or 80 years, and it was founded because it was a central place along the Skeena River.

You could process wood and have that wood transported on barges down to the coast and then down to other plants. Also, over the years, there were sawmills that were built in Terrace to process the wood locally. Those sawmills that were in the area locally also then produced all of the offtake that was used to make pulp and paper.

What you had was a series of sawmills in northwest B.C. — two or three, at one time, in Terrace. The sawdust and bark that came off that wood production was then taken to Prince Rupert to feed a large pulp mill there or brought down to the pulp mill in Kitimat, which I have referenced already. So you had an industry that at one time was booming.

But as we all know — those of us who have worked here for any time — the forestry industry goes through booms and busts. Things have not been kind to the forestry industry in northwest British Columbia since the time that I got elected. In fact, I have seen sawmill after sawmill shut down in my riding, creating huge economic dislocation for the people, particularly the people of Terrace, and all the First Nations communities.

A lot of aboriginal people were also involved in the forestry sector, not just out in the bush cutting down the trees and transporting them and doing all the work necessary to keep a forest healthy. They also worked in some of our sawmills. So they have gone through a very, very difficult time.

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What has Terrace done? Well, I think what Terrace has done is it has recognized that the good times in the forestry sector — certainly in terms of manufacturing — are over. We have now got one mill, thankfully, that has been bought by a Chinese investor. After a great many years, probably seven or eight years, of not a stick of wood being cut on a commercial scale…. We have very small-scale sawmills up and down Kalum Lake Road, but we haven't had commercial sawmilling up until the last two or three years.

What has Terrace done? It has tried to diversify, recognizing that we may never, ever get back to that level of manufacturing base that we had in the past. What Terrace has done is it has recognized that it needs to try and sell itself as a hub for northwest B.C. If you look at a map of my riding and the two adjacent ridings, you will note, just by looking at the map, that Terrace is fortunate in the sense that it is a natural geographic hub, not just for retail sales but for services like government services, medical services, dentistry, legal.

What has happened is that it has gone from being, essentially, a sawmilling town that lived off the logging industry to a town that recognizes it has to cater to a much broader base than just those who live in Terrace or Thornhill. And they have been very successful.

We are fortunate to have a medical community that attracts a large number of doctors. Not as many as we'd like, obviously — I think it's fair to say that every single community in northern B.C. would love to have more doctors — but we have been fortunate to be able to attract physicians to come, not just from other parts of British Columbia and other parts of Canada. In fact, we have been fortunate enough to attract medical professionals to come from other parts of the world to make their home in Terrace.

One community and one country that pops to mind, of course, is South Africa. If you look at the number of doctors and medically related physicians and other medical experts who live in Terrace, a number of them come from South Africa. You might wonder: "How come we suddenly had an influx of doctors from South Africa?"

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Well, first of all, most northern B.C. communities were having a hard time attracting medical professionals to come and live there. I think it's fair to say that a lot of the professionals — whether they're doctors, teachers, accountants or lawyers or whatever — tend to want to live in Canada's large cities, for a number of reasons. It's always been difficult to attract professionals to come and live in northern and smaller and remote communities.

We were fortunate because, at the outset of being able to attract South Africans to come and operate as medical professionals in Terrace…. I guess a couple of them came, initially, from Saskatchewan. What happened was that the Saskatchewan government attracted some physicians to come from South Africa.

I don't want to say anything detrimental about Saskatchewan, but, you know, it's fair to say they have very cold winters there. If you are a physician from South Africa seeking a new life with your family in a country as blessed as Canada, you might not want to pick Saskatchewan, ideally, as a great place to go. It's not just culturally very different from South Africa, but to make that adjustment from the incredible climate of South Africa to Saskatchewan is a difficult thing.

So what happened was that some of these doctors looked on a map and discovered, hey, if you come to a place like my riding of Skeena and settle down on the banks of the Skeena River, it might be a nice place to live. You haven't got long winters. You can go hiking. You can go fishing.

What's happened over the years is that a whole whack of South Africans moved to Terrace. As soon as they arrived, they phoned up their friends and said: "Hey, come on here. It doesn't snow all year, and it isn't minus 25 for five months of the year." So we have been so fortunate. These people have brought so much to our community. As a result, it has helped Terrace to form a base of services that have enabled us to now attract people from all over northwest B.C. to come to Terrace.

I'm speaking about people who live in Dease Lake and Telegraph Creek. I'm looking at the hon. member for Stikine. Those folks often have to come to my community of Terrace in order to get basic, and specialized, health services, as well as dentistry.

The catchment area for Terrace, and for my riding now, doesn't just expand to the 20,000 people who live in the Terrace area. Instead, it has become a hub. We attract people to come shopping from Prince Rupert, from all of the First Nations communities north of Terrace, as far away as Dease Lake.

There are some weekends when Terrace is so packed that we have to actually wait at traffic lights. I know that may sound strange when you only have four traffic lights, but that is how busy Terrace can get on the weekends when people come. I'm glad we only have four traffic lights. That's what I like — a small community.

J. Yap: I seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

J. Yap: I just wanted to add to the introduction I made earlier. In the precincts today are a total of 64 students from my riding, from Steveston-London Secondary School — grade 11 students — led by a group of teachers. I specifically want to recognize teacher Stephanie Christie, who has been doing this field trip, bringing her grade 11 students to the people's House, over the last number of years. I would ask members of the House to give a great

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welcome to the grade 11 students of Stephanie Christie from Steveston-London Secondary School.

Debate Continued

L. Throness: It's been very interesting listening to detailed descriptions of the parks in Vancouver and aluminum smelters in Kitimat as the opposition engages in dilatory debate for some mysterious political purpose. But we on this side will stick to the topic of Bill 42, which is the Electoral Districts Act, the work of the Electoral Boundaries Commission, which will radically alter the boundaries of my constituency.

That's symbolized in the name, the changing name of my constituency. Right now, my riding is called Chilliwack-Hope. It indicates that there's an east-west access to my riding.

[1545]

That will change in 2017 to Chilliwack-Kent, which suggests a north-south orientation, as the population shifts within my constituency. My riding is one of the most changed, most altered constituencies in this entire exercise undertaken by the Electoral Boundaries Commission.

Why is my riding changing so much? It's about numbers. As B.C.'s population grows and more and more people want to come to B.C. — because we have an excellent government that's doing great for our economy, and people want to come to B.C. — the commission's mandate has to adjust boundaries so as to have as little variation between constituencies as possible so that each British Columbian's vote has equal weight.

I think that makes sense. It's a good ideal. It's a fine ideal, but it does mean that some ridings are hugely impacted. Mine certainly is. There are actually 48 of 85 ridings, plus the two new ones that will be created, that are affected.

Now, I want, for my constituents' sake, just to go over my present boundaries and how they will change. My eastern boundary goes almost as far as Manning Park. It's just past the community of Sunshine Valley, which is a beautiful place. The boundary extends south to the American border from there and north up to the old tollbooth site on the Coquihalla Highway.

The northern boundary of the riding comes west, just north of Boston Bar, takes in the entire Fraser Canyon and Hope to the south of that. It continues north of Harrison Lake and then down the west side of Harrison Lake through the Morris Valley and over the Fraser River.

Now, when that gets to Chilliwack, it gets a little more complicated. It comes down Reeves Road. It jogs over to Prest Road. It continues west on Baily Road and then South Sumas Road over to Lickman, taking everything south of that, including the communities of Promontory, Ryder Lake and Cultus Lake, the Columbia Valley and the Chilliwack River Valley. In short, the riding is everything east of Prest Road and south of South Sumas Road in Chilliwack.

This is changing. In 2017, on the dissolution of the House, the boundaries will change on the western side. Everything east of Prest Road will become Vedder Road, so the new boundary will take in everything south of the Trans-Canada east of Vedder Road.

It sounds like a small change, but that small piece of territory actually holds about 5,000 people. That's a large urban area that will become part of my riding. This means that my riding will be much more urban than it was. Now it's quite rural in nature, but that is changing.

The eastern frontier of my riding will be much closer than before. It's moving to the west. Its boundary from north to south will be moved from the Sunshine Valley and Hope and the Fraser Canyon westward toward Seabird Island and Laidlaw.

Its northern boundary will also shrink. Now it's north of Harrison Lake, quite a bit north, and it will run through Harrison Lake itself, which means that I will lose the In-SHUCK-ch people at the head of Harrison Lake, which is a sad thing to me. I'm sorry about that. I've visited that beautiful part of the world. I enjoyed representing them. I met with representatives in the band office in Deroche just a few weeks ago. I will lose the opportunity to represent them to my colleague to the north.

Altogether, my riding is going to shrink from 10,842 square kilometres to 3,168 square kilometres — 70 percent smaller. It'll be much more of an urban riding than it currently is. It will have about 51,000 people in it, so it's still quite a large riding.

So I'm happy to speak in support of the bill before us. It's necessary to periodically do boundary adjustments, but it gives me the opportunity to highlight a couple of issues related to the process that I want to talk about.

First, a couple of facts that my constituents will be interested to know. They'll be interested to know that the commission is reappointed every second election. So the changes in this report will take effect in May 2017 and be in effect for eight years after that, until May 2025. That's quite a long period of time.

Related to this, I want to point out what I see as a problem with the process, because this is the place to do it, in this chamber. I want to be personally transparent about that issue and talk about myself alone, but it does affect dozens of other MLAs in this House and how they do their jobs.

All MLAs in this House are good and dutiful people. We all want to do our jobs because we love our province. We love the people in our ridings. We do our jobs out of a sense of affection toward our people and also out of a sense of duty. But there is another motivation that every MLA experiences, and that's what I would call the democratic imperative.

This is the fundamental motivation of self-interest. In the business world, it would have its counterpart in the

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idea of profit. Simply put, we want to please those who elect us. We want to serve them well so that they will vote for us again. This is not a fault in the process. This is a marvellous strength of democracy.

Sometimes politicians are accused of being weak-willed. They're accused of pleasing people and watching polls and swinging with the winds of public opinion. When I hear that accusation, I say: "Yeah, great. That's good. That's a good idea." Within reason, that's the way that it ought to be.

[1550]

I tell people that Mr. Stalin and Mr. Mao never cared about public opinion. They were not motivated by public opinion. They didn't seek it. They didn't care what anybody thought. They did whatever they wanted to, because they were dictators.

But we respond to people, both at a local and a provincial level. When we do that, it shows that it's the people who are in charge. It's the people who are our bosses. We're doing what they want. That's the great incentive of democracy — that we are held accountable to those people who are going to vote for us or are going to vote against us in the next election.

It results in very good, very responsive government and very good levels of service to our constituents, because the right incentives are in place — those of duty, those of ties of affection but also of the democratic imperative. The democratic imperative, the drive to be re-elected, is a very powerful incentive. It is a significant motivation, and it is a good one.

This system of accountability to our constituents is disturbed every eight years, somewhat, when boundaries are revised. I want to point to myself as an example. I knew as of September 24, almost two years before the next election, that Hope and the Fraser Canyon will not be in my constituency in two years, that the 6,000 people in those areas will not be able to vote for me or against me in the next election, in May of 2017.

What are the incentives that result from this kind of knowledge? It means that I am no longer motivated by self-interest in those areas of my riding. I'm no longer motivated by the need to be re-elected in those areas. I'm motivated purely by my sense of affection for those areas and by my sense of duty to those constituents.

Fortunately, I have strong affection for those areas, and I have a strong sense of duty. I want to assure my constituents in those areas that I will represent them and attend to them, just as I did before, right up until the next election. But the democratic imperative, the impulse to be re-elected, is no longer there in those areas of my riding.

The other effect of the boundary adjustment process — I again point to myself as the example here — is that in 2017, I'll be serving people who are not now in my riding, thousands of people in Chilliwack. I now have the democratic incentive to appeal to those people, to serve those people, to make myself known to those people, who are currently in the neighbouring riding, because they will be able to vote for me in 2017 or vote against me. But I already have all the people in my own riding to serve. It is an extra burden, and it results in a mismatch of accountability.

Further, this mismatch is not insignificant. It is significant. Since more than half of all riding boundaries are changing in this boundary readjustment, it affects pockets of people all over the province. And further, this mismatch of accountabilities, as in the current boundary adjustment, will last for 19 months out of the next eight years, which is 96 months, or 20 percent of that eight-year period.

Since the boundary readjustments happen every eight years, it means that on a permanent basis, 20 percent of the time in areas all over B.C., most MLAs have the incentive to serve constituents who are currently in a neighbouring riding and the incentive not to serve some constituents who are currently in their own riding.

This is kind of bizarre. It's an outcome I never would have thought of before I became an MLA. I would point out and add to this that not only constituents are vulnerable here, but MLAs are also vulnerable. I have 52,000 people to serve in my own riding. What if an individual or a group that lives in the area that will be in my riding comes to me and says: "We know we're not in your riding yet, but we have an issue that we're concerned about. We want you to help us, and if you don't help us, we're not going to vote for you in 2017"? That's a real threat. How can an MLA say no to that?

This situation not only has the potential of selling constituents short if some MLAs don't pay as close attention to that area as they did before; it also puts MLAs in a difficult spot, as people are able to force them to represent them, even if they are not in their riding. It takes time. It takes energy away from time and energy that should be devoted to their current constituents.

It's a bit of an odd situation. While all members of this House are motivated by affection, motivated by duty, I think it would be better if they were also motivated by the democratic imperative, the imperative of self-interest, in pleasing people to whom they are accountable. I think it would result overall, over time, in better government.

I see this as a flaw in the process. But what can we do about this? I've thought about it. I don't argue with the need for a commission. I don't argue with the need to readjust boundaries every eight years. Those are important things. I don't argue with the commission beginning its work in good time and doing public consultations, as it has done, nor do I argue with the need to let members and others know in good time, well ahead, how their boundaries will change. All these elements are good elements.

[1555]

Certainly, it's in the interest of, say, political parties and MLAs and government agencies to make adjustments ahead of time. It's in the interests of MLAs to have 19

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months to prepare. But is this amount of time, this length of time, in the public interest? That is the question that we must always ask in this House. Is it in the interest of our constituents?

I would argue that it's not in the public interest to allow that much lead time and leave the accountabilities of most MLAs to be blurred, to be partially mismatched for 20 percent of every eight-year period between boundary adjustments. In short, I don't think we need to know 19 months in advance how and when our boundaries are changed. That's a long time. That's almost two years.

While we can't eliminate this problem of a mismatch in accountabilities, I think we can reduce it by a number of months. By how much? I would think that the ideal would be to preserve existing boundaries and the match of accountability for as long as possible, while still giving a reasonable time for this House to pass legislation — like the bill we have before us — and political parties, government agencies, MLAs and everyone else to prepare for the change.

I think that we could get by with probably an eight-month period of foreknowledge. This would reduce the mismatch in accountability to our constituents from 20 percent to about 8 percent of the time, and I think it would result over time, on a provincewide basis, in better government.

This would require a small change — not to the bill before us today, which is fine, but to the electoral boundary readjustment act. So I would recommend to this House, to future legislators, that some time in the next eight years — we have lots of time — before the next boundary adjustment, that this Legislature would change the law in order to keep the democratic incentive in place for as long as reasonably possible and maximize the accountability of MLAs to their constituents, to keep our constituents as our constituents, as close as possible to each election, and to give MLAs every incentive to focus on their current constituents rather than on future constituents.

Now, I'd like to address another issue. I want to talk for a moment about Hope, respecting my boundary adjustments. The district of Hope is located right where the mountains bordering the Fraser Valley come together, so it is geographically located within the Fraser Valley, but it's right at the jumping-off point to other areas of the province — the Fraser Canyon to the north, the Crowsnest and the Coquihalla passes to the east. In many ways — geographically, economically and culturally, as I argued to the commission — Hope is connected with the Fraser Valley rather than north and east with the Fraser-Nicola region.

This was a big deal for my constituents in Hope. I immediately began receiving feedback from people in Hope and even from people to the north of Hope. They appeared before the commission in Abbotsford. They came a long way to do that. Again, at the hearing in Hope…. And I want to thank the commission for appearing in Hope. They actually went to Hope to hear out my constituents, and I appreciate that. There was so much feedback that not all constituents could appear before the commission.

I want to quote from the commission's report here, which said: "The majority of the public opinion we received was regarding three areas: Hope and the Fraser Canyon, Surrey and the Comox Valley. Opinions were split on whether Hope is the gateway to the Interior and therefore belongs in the Fraser-Nicola electoral district, or whether it is the gateway to the Fraser Valley and therefore belongs in an electoral district with Chilliwack."

Opinions may have been split, but I'm glad the commission did not suggest that they were equally split, because they were not. They were split, I would estimate, 95 percent in favour of Hope remaining in the Chilliwack-Hope riding.

After the local district council passed a unanimous resolution in favour of Hope being retained in the riding in which it now is, I began a petition that would give local people a voice — that would allow local people to express themselves. And the people of Hope, themselves, gathered nearly 400 signatures on that petition in a very short period of time.

In order to facilitate the people of Hope expressing their will, I placed an advertisement in the Hope Standard , the local paper, that invited them to a local coffee house, the Blue Moose, where I had the petition ready and waiting for a few hours one afternoon, if people wanted to come in and sign it. And that they did.

Now, someone on the other side of the House saw the ad in the paper, complained in writing to the Speaker — I think the House Leader did that — suggesting that this is was partisan use of my MLA constituency office funds. Of course, when I saw that letter, I immediately explained my actions to the Speaker, and I'm happy to report that this matter has been decided by the Speaker.

[1600]

She had a discussion with me, as well as the Legislative Assembly's executive financial officer, and decided that she was satisfied that the use of constituency office funding for the advertisement was within the guidelines provided in the "Members' guide to policy and resources" and that the advertisement was non-partisan in nature. I want to assure my constituents and all members of this House that it was non-partisan. I made good use of taxpayers' funds. I was doing my job in representing my constituents, and I will do that until 2017.

I continued to do that this summer when I appeared before the Electoral Boundaries Commission, when we had the opportunity to do so here in Victoria, and I presented the petition to the commissioners on behalf of my constituents.

I think, in conclusion, that it's unfortunate the commission finally chose to make the decision it did; that is, to put Hope and the Fraser Canyon within the constitu-

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ency of Fraser-Nicola. But I understand their reasons for doing so. It's a difficult job of an independent commission to do this kind of work, and of course, I accept their verdict.

I will be sad to lose those areas of my riding, which I've come to have affection for. They are such beautiful areas of my riding. I have so enjoyed getting to know the unique people that populate Hope and Yale and Boston Bar and smaller areas in between. They are salt-of-the-earth people. They are good people. They are genuine people. It has been such a pleasure to represent them, and it will be such a pleasure to represent them for the next 19 months until the next election.

Deputy Speaker: I recognize the member for Port Coquitlam on the second reading of Bill 42.

M. Farnworth: Thank you, hon. Speaker. It's a pleasure to see you in the chair, and it's a pleasure to rise and speak to Bill 42. I've got a number of comments to make.

Actually, before I start my speech, I notice the Minister of Energy is here, and I have a couple of comments I just want to direct to him, because I told him once before that I would say this.

A lot of times people think that government and opposition aren't able to cooperate on an issue and that all we ever do is fight. I want to acknowledge that there was an issue in my riding — which I will talk about at further length — earlier on; that is, that one of the key events that I have been involved with in politics in my riding, in my community, was the creation of the Pinecone Burke Provincial Park that was done in 1995. Currently there's access, but it's limited.

There's work being done by B.C. Hydro on the power line right-of-way that runs over that. It crossed a significant creek, and during that work, a bridge was created. A lot of times a lot of this work is not left in place but is, in fact, dug up, and there's no actual, real road there. But there was concern in the community that in this particular case this bridge was wonderful access into the park.

I worked with the minister, and he was able to ensure that Hydro, in fact, left that bridge in place. So I just wanted to take this opportunity to publicly thank him for doing that. Who says that government and opposition can't work together on things?

Now, back to the piece of legislation before us. I listened with interest to my colleague's comments down the way. I was a bit disappointed that he described opposition speeches as dilatory speeches about their ridings rather than the issue at hand. I'm surprised that he would say that, because had he listened to the minister who introduced the bill, her opening comments were very clear to members on both sides of the House, which were: "I look forward to hearing speeches about your individual ridings." She did, indeed, say that. So I'm a bit surprised about the dilatory nature.

[R. Chouhan in the chair.]

I listened with interest to the member's speeches, and I understand his concern about what happens when a riding gets split and how these decisions are often made. I've now been through four riding redistributions, and it is always an interesting process.

I'll give him one piece of advice. You may lose some areas, you may gain areas, and you may be concerned about those new people coming in to vote for you. But my piece of advice is this. They already have an MLA, and the best thing in your interest is: don't interfere with the work of the existing MLA, especially when he's in your own party. If you do that, things will go a lot smoother. I see that the Minister of Energy fully understands that.

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The first time I was associated with a boundary redistribution was in 1988. I was on the city council of Port Coquitlam at the time, and it was the significant boundary redistribution that had been put in place by Bill Vander Zalm, the Fisher Commission, which was to get rid of dual-member ridings and actually put in place a proper and independent commission in British Columbia to make changes to the boundaries.

We, in Port Coquitlam, have always been concerned about keeping our community together because we are divided by CP Rail's largest marshalling yard in all of western Canada. It bisects the town in two, so there's a north side of Port Coquitlam and a south side of Port Coquitlam and then a small piece of Port Coquitlam on the west side of the Coquitlam River. Often the railway line is seen as an obvious boundary, just like a river is or a municipal boundary.

In this particular case, some of the proposals being floated were to put the north side of Port Coquitlam in with Pitt Meadows and the south side of Port Coquitlam in with Port Moody, creating some really strange configurations. The council was very concerned about that, and I was council's delegate to make a presentation to the commission. We argued that Port Coquitlam should be kept whole, and the result was, in fact, that we were.

We had a big chunk of what, in essence, is the riding of Coquitlam–Burke Mountain. It was also part of the Port Coquitlam riding that came at that particular time. In 1991, I had the good fortune to be elected as the MLA for the area. Then there was a subsequent boundary readjustment or redrawing in the late '90s in time for the 2001 election. That was, again, a significant event. I lost almost 40 percent of my riding because of the population growth at that time.

That's a little bit about my experience, initially, with boundary redistributions. For MLAs who are attached to their communities, they can be somewhat disconcerting, and they do have an impact. And all of us as MLAs do have, as I said in my initial speech on the motion, a vested interest in how those boundaries are drawn.

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We've gone through, in the motion debate, the history of the drawing of boundaries in this province and how they have evolved to the present situation where they're done by an independent panel. I'd just like to comment on that, because, as I said, I've been involved now with four of them.

The one thing that I think every single boundaries' commission since the Fisher Commission has done, and I think it bears out, is that ev