Third Session, 42nd Parliament

(2022) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Monday, November 21, 2022

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 249

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Bill 43 — Housing Supply Act

Hon. M. Rankin

Bill 44 — Building and Strata Statutes Amendment Act, 2022

Hon. M. Rankin

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

Iran protests for women, life, freedom

B. Bailey

K. Kirkpatrick

Supporting the pulp and paper sector

L. Doerkson

R. Leonard

Waiting for cancer care

R. Merrifield

A. Singh

Second Reading of Bills

Bill M202 — Equal Pay Reporting Act (continued)

R. Merrifield

G. Lore

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 2022

The House met at 10:02 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: J. Sims.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

BILL 43 — HOUSING SUPPLY ACT

Hon. M. Rankin presented a message from Her Honour the

Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Housing Supply Act.

Hon. M. Rankin: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time

now.

I am pleased to introduce the Housing Supply Act. B.C. is in a

housing crisis in part because the number of homes built has not kept up

with the record-setting population growth in British Columbia. As a

result, people are struggling to find housing. This includes people who

earn decent wages at good jobs but can’t find housing that meets their

needs in the communities where they work.

[10:05 a.m.]

This bill confronts the problem head-on, creating structure so the

province and municipalities can work together to ensure needed homes are

built for British Columbians.

This bill will be an important tool in reversing the housing

crisis by ensuring accurate housing needs reports that tell us what kind

of housing and how many units are needed, by setting clear and public

targets for achieving the construction of those homes and by

establishing clear compliance responses where cooperation breaks down.

Coupled with strong anti-speculation laws in our province and developed

in consultation with key sector stakeholders and Indigenous peoples,

this law will ensure we’re building the housing we need for people, not

absentee investors and speculators.

Cities are an important order of government, and they know their

communities best. That’s why it will be up to them to identify how best

to hit the targets set by the province through consultation. More homes

of the kinds we need and high levels of collaboration between the

province and cities will help stabilize prices and rents.

This will support families and seniors and everyone searching for

a decent place to live. It will help reduce carbon emissions as people

find homes closer to work, shortening commutes and leading to more time

with family and friends. This will make our economy strong and secure at

a time of global uncertainty.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is the first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Hon. M. Rankin: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 43, Housing Supply Act, introduced, read a first time and

ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next

sitting of the House after today.

BILL 44 — BUILDING AND STRATA

STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT,

Hon. M. Rankin presented a message from Her Honour the

Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Building and Strata Statutes Amendment

Act, 2022.

Hon. M. Rankin: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time

now.

I am pleased to introduce the Building and Strata Statutes

Amendment Act, 2022. This bill will amend the Strata Property Act and

the Building Officials’ Association Act. This bill will make two key

amendments to the Strata Property Act to expand housing options for

strata owners, prospective buyers and renters in this tight housing

market.

First, this bill will limit the ability of strata corporations to

have most age restriction bylaws. Age restriction bylaws with a minimum

age of 55 years of age or older will still be permitted. Second, the

bill will remove the ability of strata corporations to have rental

restriction bylaws.

This bill will also amend the Strata Property Act to allow all

strata corporations in B.C. to conduct annual and special general

meetings by electronic means on a permanent basis. A temporary

regulation was made under the COVID-19 Related Measures Act to allow

stratas to conduct electronic meetings, but it’s set to expire on

December 31, 2022. These changes will give strata corporations the

option to conduct annual and special general meetings by electronic

means on an ongoing basis.

Finally, the bill will also amend the Building Officials’

Association Act to permit the Building Officials Association of B.C. to

introduce bylaws for its members’ approval that provide for the

continuation of electronic means.

Mr. Speaker: The question is the first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Hon. M. Rankin: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of this House after today.

Bill 44, Building and Strata Statutes Amendment Act, 2022,

introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day

for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

IRAN PROTESTS FOR

WOMEN, LIFE,

FREEDOM

B. Bailey: Zan, zendegi, azadi — women, life, freedom. Following the

death of 22-year-old Kurdish woman Mahsa Amini in police custody in

Tehran, the country has erupted into protest.

[10:10 a.m.]

Amini was accused of allowing her hijab to slip and letting her

hair show. It is alleged that she was beaten in custody, leading to her

falling into a coma and dying a few days later. This incident was a

spark on a tinder-dry forest of discontent.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

The people of Iran, and women in particular, have been subjected

to repeated oppression at the hands of the Islamic Republic, who

continue to deny the abuses being described by their citizens. I rise

today to add my voice to the call for freedom to the women of Iran. I

speak to draw attention to the continued and worsening human rights

abuses being perpetrated by state actors of Iran against its own people.

Currently, peaceful protesters are being sentenced to death.

My riding, Vancouver–False Creek, has a large number of people of

Iranian heritage contributing to our economy and building their lives in

Vancouver. This is a terrible time for these constituents. They live

each day knowing that the people they love are being arbitrarily

detained, arrested and, worse, raped and killed.

Human rights organizations estimate that more than 400 people have

been killed. Many of my constituents estimate it to be much, much

higher. These numbers include the deaths of many children and

youth.

A network of human rights activists with a mandate to follow up on

the condition of detained protesters in Iran has reported dire human

rights violations, such as torture and sexual abuse, not having access

to medical services and detention in secret locations. The committee

announced that it was able to identify over 1,600 detainees, including

65 minors. These prisoners include 969 ordinary citizens, 393 students,

145 civil activists, 42 journalists, 40 political activists, 38 women’s

rights activists and 26 attorneys.

At the 10,000-person-strong march held Saturday in Vancouver,

attendees said that they hear from within Iran that the number is closer

to 60,000 people detained. Because of state efforts to silence media,

shut down the Internet, jail reporters and to control the message, it’s

very difficult to verify numbers. People all over the world are raising

their voices to force the Republic of Iran to stop this violence.

Protests have taken place in hundreds of cities in countries all around

the world.

On October 30, the New York Times published a full-page

letter. In it, women leaders called to expel the Islamic Republic of

Iran from the UN women’s rights commission. Signatories included Deputy

Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland, Minister of Foreign Affairs Mélanie

Joly, past Prime Minister Kim Campbell, Michelle Obama, Laura Bush,

Hillary Clinton and many other notable women.

At the United Nations last week, Canada brought a resolution

condemning the human rights abuses in Iran. On November 15, the UN

Commission on Human Rights urged the Iranian authorities to immediately

release all those detained in connection to peaceful protests and to

drop the charges against them.

International human rights law protects the rights of peaceful

assembly and freedom of expression. A UN spokesperson said that “rather

than choosing dialogue to air legitimate grievances, the authorities

were responding to the unprecedented protests sparked by Ms. Amini’s

death in police custody ‘with increasing harshness.’”

Last week, “recriminations reached a new level with the first

sentencing to death of a protester by an Islamic Revolutionary Court in

Tehran, which found the un­named defendant guilty of

moharebeh , or waging war against God…. At least nine other

protesters have been charged with offences that carry the death

penalty,” said the United Nations. “Under international law, countries

that have not yet abolished the death penalty can only impose it for the

‘most serious crimes,’” which is interpreted as crimes involving

intentional killing.

“‘Crimes not resulting directly and intentionally in death can

never serve as the basis for the imposition of the death penalty,’ he

added. According to news reports, the protests have spread to at least

140 towns and cities” in Iran. Hundreds of protesters “have been killed

during the violent crackdown, including more than 40 children.” The UN

spokesperson called on Iran “to immediately impose a moratorium on the

death penalty, to refrain from charging capital crimes and to revoke

death sentences issued for crimes not qualifying as the most serious

crimes.”

[10:15 a.m.]

On November 11, Germany and Iceland requested the convening of a

special session to address the deteriorating human rights situation in

the Islamic Republic of Iran, which will be held and livecast on

Thursday, November 24.

The situation in Iran is worsening daily, and so many innocent

lives are at risk. To all the people of Iran, and to British Columbians

of Iranian descent, please know we stand with you. For those of us who

are not directly impacted, please know that people of Iranian descent in

your lives are suffering. They’re suffering for the people in their home

country and are being traumatized by what’s happening.

They need our kindness and our support at this time. There is a

very real layer of pain being carried by our neighbors tied to this

crisis. The trauma they face is real, even if they are not there but are

here — maybe especially because they are not there but are

here.

Zan, zendegi, azadi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

K. Kirkpatrick: Thank you to the member for speaking on this very important topic.

As the House knows, I sometimes get emotional in here, and I think, with

this kind of topic, women in particular feel the pain of other women. So

this may or may not be one of those times where I have trouble getting

through my words here.

The brutal death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini in custody of morality

police, after she was arrested for allegedly violating the hijab law,

has sparked sweeping protests across Iran and around the world. Many of

my constituents come from Iran and are watching us to see what we say

and what we do.

Young protesters, mostly women, have taken to the streets chanting

“women, life, freedom,” as they cut their hair, burnt their hijabs and

faced down police to demand fundamental rights, bodily autonomy and an

end to oppression. How many of us here in Canada fear for our lives when

we protest something? These women fear for their lives and are taking a

chance that none of us here can understand or empathize with.

Since protests erupted in September, the Iranian regime has

arrested an estimated 14,000 people. This includes children,

journalists, lawyers and activists, according to the UN. At least 326

people have been killed — this is based on information from the

Norway-based NGO Iran Human Rights; and five people have been sentenced

to death by the revolutionary court in cases linked to this

protest.

We cannot turn a blind eye to what’s happening in Iran as women

unite in defiance of theocracy that deems itself the government of God.

It concerns all of us because it’s part of a larger struggle against

institutionalized, systemic oppression. In Iran, girls and women have

been unfairly treated as second-class citizens with domestic violence,

child marriage and gender discrimination that continues to exist

today.

Women’s issues have long been catalysts for broader political

action and the key to challenging this regime. For at least the past 20

years, women’s movements have been simmering since hijab became

mandatory in Iran after the 1979 Islamic revolution, with laws

regulating women’s behaviour and restricting their participation in

public life as a hallmark of the regime.

Each and every one of the women in this House should appreciate

that we not only get to vote, but we get to stand in here and

participate in building the policies and having the honour of voting on

who is representing us. Compulsory dress rules interfere with basic

human rights. Everyone should be free to choose what and what not to

wear.

[10:20 a.m.]

Governments have an obligation to respect, protect and ensure an

individual’s rights and to create an environment where everyone can make

that choice freely, free of coercion by family members, society or

religious leaders. Fundamentally, such dress codes reflect and

exacerbate underlying gender discriminations that have been around for

far too long.

International society has a key role to play in reducing the

gender gap, because gender equality not only helps children fulfil their

potential and stimulates economic growth, but it’s also the foundation

for an inclusive, peaceful and sustainable world. We are sending a clear

message — we must send a clear message — to support Iranians’ legitimate

demand for freedom and justice. We remain, and must remain, steadfast in

upholding the rights of girls and women in every part of the

world.

A lot more work remains to be done through legal instruments and

on-the-ground activities, but to everyone who stands up for those who

face discrimination and fights for basic human rights: you are not

alone.

B. Bailey: Mr. Speaker, this Saturday the MLA for Nelson-Creston and I

attended a massive protest in support of freedom for the women of Iran.

This protest was one of the largest so far, with an estimated 10,000

people marching from B.C. Place to the Vancouver Art Gallery. This

protest was part of a global action, and similar protests took place all

around the world.

While at the event, we spoke with a woman who was in a cast.

Through her tears, she explained that she was a nurse and that as soon

as her foot was healed, she was heading to Iran to help the protesters.

She shared that she had a cousin who had been killed already in the

protests in Iran, and she shared that another relative had been

imprisoned and, due to the torture experienced there, when released,

took her own life.

Last week there was a renewed wave of demonstrations to mark the

anniversary of a previous round of deadly protests in 2019, when

hundreds of people were killed as they took to the streets following a

fuel price increase. At the protest in Vancouver, the families of the

downed flight PS752, in January 2020, have been there, and they’ve been

there at all the protests, to remind us of the brutality Iran is capable

of.

Despite the increasing violence, the protesters are not letting

up. It is reported that the home of the prior supreme leader, Ayatollah

Khomeini, made into a museum after his death, was burned to the

ground.

Al Jazeera reports that numerous cities across the country saw

chaotic scenes last week, with deadly incidents taking place on

Wednesday night in the southwestern town of Izeh, when at least seven

people died, including two boys, aged 13 and nine. This weekend there

were deadly IRGC attacks in the northwestern area, including in the city

of Mahabad.

The brutality of what is occurring in Iran is almost unimaginable

to those of us who have been lucky enough to live in peace our whole

lives. But we must imagine it. We can’t turn away and pretend it’s not

happening. Our friends and our neighbours are traumatized.

How does this end? Well, there’s hope to be found. There’s hope to

be found in the stories of bazaar merchants who are closing their shops,

there’s hope to be found in the stories of Iranian armed guards refusing

to fire on civilians, and there is hope in mounting international

pressure. International pressure can make a difference. Think about the

impact the anti-apartheid movement had on the government in South

Africa.

We cannot, and must not, allow the Islamic regime to continue to

impose death penalties on protesters. We cannot, and must not, allow the

continued killing of children. This is not just the fight of women in

Iran anymore. It is even bigger now.

I was told by the protesters this weekend that this is now the

fight of a nation against a regime that has lost all legitimacy due to

increasing oppression of its citizens.

[10:25 a.m.]

SUPPORTING THE

PULP AND PAPER

SECTOR

L. Doerkson: B.C. is, of course, an incredible place, and certainly one that I

feel very lucky to live in. It’s full of good, hard-working people; warm

and welcoming communities; beautiful scenery; and an abundance of

natural resources. These resources and the industries that have grown up

around them have profoundly shaped our province. They have powered our

economy, created cities and supported the livelihoods of so many British

Columbians.

Of these industries, forestry has been one of the most

significant, both throughout our history and into the present day, of

course. Timber and fibre products are a major export, and the sector

employs tens of thousands of people directly, while also contributing to

our province indirectly in so many ways.

However, as vital as this industry is, we know that it’s getting

increasingly difficult for the sector to operate, and we are hearing

growing concerns about a looming crisis. Right now, B.C. is facing the

potential of a serious fibre shortage, something that will affect the

viability of the entire industry. When talking about forestry, our minds

often first jump to just logging and lumber, when the forest sector is

so much broader than that, encompassing not just the traditional lumber

producers, but also pulp and paper producers, value-added industries,

forest-reliant communities and recreation and tourism

industries.

Recently pulp and paper producers have expressed their concerns

about the problem of the fibre supply and how the lack of fibre is going

to impact every part of the sector. It’s estimated that B.C. is facing a

four million cubic metre shortfall, driven by a combination of issues,

including both environmental factors like wildfires and pine beetle

infestations as well as, of course, forest policy.

Many mills currently have only five days of fibre inventory

available, when they usually target inventory levels of 45 days.

Analysis shows that if the situation continues without being urgently

addressed, multiple pulp mills and more than ten sawmills around the

province will likely be shut down and lost in just the next two years,

with more to follow in subsequent years.

In fact, we have already seen examples of devastating effects of

this shortage on pulp and paper producers. Last November we saw Powell

River paper mill shut its doors, with curtailments and production cuts

at Taylor, Crofton paper, Cariboo pulp mill and Canfor pulp mill, in

addition to curtailments at numerous sawmills.

These kinds of closures and curtailments have far-reaching

implications. They represent the loss of meaningful First Nation

engagement opportunities and operations, the loss of livelihoods for so

many small and rural communities, and if we keep on with the status quo,

the loss of $9.2 billion in GDP, $2.5 billion in tax revenues and 50,000

job-years of employment.

It’s clear that urgent investment in forestry, including pulp and

paper producers, is desperately needed to keep this industry

functioning. This is both to keep the current operations functioning but

also to enable the industry to continue to evolve.

Pulp and paper producers have been at the forefront of revival

within forestry. There has been a recent movement to reduce dependence

on traditional printing and writing papers — for which demand, of

course, is decreasing — towards products like packaging, toilet paper,

tissue and towel and specialty papers. The demand for these products is

growing at rates of between 2 percent and 7 percent per year, and they

present new opportunity for the sector.

The demand for pulp and paper products is sure to continue to grow

over the next few years, especially as consumers continue to become more

environmentally conscious. We have certainly witnessed a growing global

preference for paper products as green alternatives to plastics made by

using fossil fuels. It’s increasingly common to see a consumer

preference for things like paper straws, cups and packaging as more

sustainable options.

Pulp and paper producers want to be able to keep up with this

demand and be able to provide the alternatives that people are looking

for, but the worsening fibre shortage and the lack of support are making

it difficult for the industry to stay afloat. It’s estimated that after

Paper Excellence indefinitely closes its paper mill in Crofton at the

end of the year, B.C. will have lost 58 percent of its paper production

capacity and 13 percent of its pulp mill capacity.

[10:30 a.m.]

It is a very, very serious concern not just for our

prov­ince, to be able to produce the goods that people need, but

for many communities and families dependent on the industry. The average

mill employs hundreds of people, directly and indirectly, with good,

family-supporting salaries.

On a provincial level, pulp and paper are incredibly valuable as

well. Last year, pulp and paper was B.C.’s fourth most valuable export,

accounting for 20 percent of B.C.’s forest sector GDP and 34 percent of

the total value of forest exports. It’s clear that if we let this

industry collapse, the results will be disastrous, both for individual

families and communities directly impacted and for B.C.’s economy as a

whole.

We cannot let this happen. We must ensure that we are taking the

steps necessary to protect this industry and ensure it has the resources

needed to keep operating and providing for British Columbians well into

the future.

We know that the industry itself has been asking for specific

actions to be urgently taken to provide relief and to prevent more mill

closures in the coming weeks and months. I sincerely hope that these

steps are being taken and that we don’t lose more of the valuable pulp

and paper producers as a result of inaction.

I very much look forward to hearing from my colleague opposite

about the work that is hopefully being done to immediately address these

problems.

R. Leonard: I want to say thank you to the member from the beautiful

constituency of Cariboo-Chilcotin for bringing forward the topic of

supporting the pulp and paper sector.

I thought I might start with a little bit of personal trivia

related to the subject. A hundred years ago, my grandfather trained as

an electrician in Vancouver and found employment in the remote

wilderness of British Columbia. It was a time when the possibilities for

generating hydroelectric power opened up opportunities for resource

industries to grow and thrive, bringing workers and families deep into

our water-rich province. He and others like him were part of some of

those remote rural resource towns taking root.

Pulp and paper has certainly been a big part of our history, and

we know that it continues to be an important part of people’s lives and

livelihoods in our forestry communities. It is our forests that provide

the wood fibre that is processed into products that are sought after

around the globe. That’s why it’s important that we take better care of

our forests and steward the landscape to secure the rich biodiversity it

holds to be sure that this natural resource is there for future

generations.

As we embrace reconciliation with Indigenous peoples throughout

B.C., and as we move to reduce our impacts on the climate, the pulp and

paper sector is in step to transform the industry to embrace those

shared goals.

Our government is working cooperatively with the Pulp and Paper

Coalition and has acted on many of their recommendations to address a

major concern: improving fibre access for pulp mills within this new way

of looking at forests and forestry. The coalition identified a number of

initiatives to address the forecasted shortfalls, which our government

has acted on.

One, the Forest Enhancement Society of B.C. funding has been

renewed to access greater volumes of fibre, and $25 million will fund

projects that make use of slash piles and burnt timber.

Two, we’ve introduced the fibre recovery zone on the coast. These

zones aim to improve harvest performance and provide more fibre to pulp

and paper by enforcing how much unused fibre can be left after timber

harvesting.

New timber pricing policies and waste penalties for fibre that is

left in the bush…. A take-or-pay system requires licensees that leave

waste to pay a stumpage rate on what fibre is left on the forest floor.

This has reduced waste in the Interior by 38 percent and 61 percent on

the coast between 2017 and ’21.

Just last week, streamlining the process to salvage fire-damaged

timber took a leap forward with the introduction of new wildfire salvage

opportunity agreements with First Nations. This is a trifecta, as First

Nations who have tenure will have an opportunity to participate in

forestry with employment and economic benefits to their communities

through salvage volumes under licence, adding to the work done by

forestry companies.

[10:35 a.m.]

Secondly, it adds to the fibre supply, as the salvage of

fire-damaged trees is accelerated before they degrade and lose their

commercial value.

Thirdly, forest lands can rehabilitate faster. As Vern Louie,

forest manager of Osoyoos Indian Band, noted, they can rehabilitate,

emphasizing their management values for water protection, wildlife

corridors and culturally significant areas.

A new fibre supply task force with industry is underway to develop

further improvements in fibre access and use. It’s impressive how

something like what…. Fire-damaged wood used to be considered waste, and

we are now opening avenues for its use by the pulp and paper

sector.

It’s encouraging to see Kruger’s recent investment in the purchase

of the Kamloops pulp mill. I read that Kruger intends to maintain the

320 jobs there and is committed to continuing the modernization of the

mill. This is a positive signal, along with the coalition indicating

that this industry is undergoing a revival, as the marketplace is

growing for different paper products.

The goal to leave no fibre unused while preserving our rich

biodiversity through better care of our forests will keep our pulp and

paper mills thriving as we keep people rooted in their communities, and

it will advance reconciliation with Indigenous people and reduce our

climate impacts. I think today my grandfather and his peers would

approve.

L. Doerkson: Thank you to my colleague opposite for the contributions to this

discussion. I certainly hope that members of this place understand the

gravity of this situation and the urgency with which action must be

taken. I appreciate some of the comments, and I want to touch on one of

them specifically in a moment.

Experts from within this sector believe that if steps are not

taken immediately, we will see multiple mill closures in the next 90 to

120 days, and even more in the months to follow. We’re dealing with an

industry that is literally on its knees, and any delay will have serious

consequences for the whole province.

Pulp and paper producers have been clear about the many possible

solutions to this growing crisis. They need to see investment to help

with the transition away from traditional products to the packaging,

tissue and towel — especially papers that are in high demand — as well

as support ongoing work in biomass-based energy systems and

biofuels.

Additionally, the chronic lack of fibre supply needs to be

addressed. This is not a simple issue, but there are simple steps that

could be taken immediately to make a real difference. Pulp and paper

producers depend on the waste from sawmills, but they can also utilize

harvest waste from logging. This is a clear solution that deals with the

by-products of logging. It reduces waste, and it will provide pulp mills

with more fibre.

Right now much of that harvest waste is simply being piled up and

burned in slash piles. In my own community, we have massive piles that

are set to be burned when it could be used as a creative solution to the

problems facing the industry. It’s estimated that if timber waste was

redirected, there could be an additional 1.2 million cubic metres of

fibre going to pulp mills.

It’s these kinds of sensible and creative solutions that this

industry needs, and government should be partnered in that process. I

hope that the serious concerns of the forest sector are being heard and

that we will soon see the action that is so desperately needed. Our pulp

and paper producers cannot afford to wait any longer for

relief.

WAITING FOR CANCER CARE

R. Merrifield: “Lengthy wait times have some B.C. cancer patients dying before

their first consultations.” These are the headlines that our province is

making in newspapers such as the Globe and Mail, as British

Columbians face extraordinary and sometimes tragic wait times when

dealing with cancer care in B.C. According to the Globe and

Mail investigation, only one in five patients referred to an

oncologist received the first consultation within the recommended period

of two weeks. This is unacceptable.

[10:40 a.m.]

Cancer is a ticking time bomb in our bodies. When cancer care is

delayed or inaccessible, there is a lower chance of survival, greater

problems associated with treatment, and higher costs of care. We know

that early diagnosis improves cancer outcomes by providing care at the

earliest stage possible and is therefore an important public health

strategy in all settings. However, the failure to do so and to provide

timely cancer diagnosis to those with cancer in B.C. can be

deadly.

With our growing population and a health care system that isn’t

able to keep up, specialists are warning about the tsunami of cancer

that is about to ensue. They are also warning that they are seeing

later-stage cancers in greater numbers than ever before. They have also

been sounding the alarm bell that those waiting to get in to see a

specialist are now in the millions.

Is it really that serious? Well, the difference between life and

death for cancer patients can be the time it takes for diagnosis and

treatment. In a British Medical Journal

article by Hanna in

2020, it was shown that for every week of delay after diagnosis,

survival is shortened by 1.2 to 3.2 percent per week of delay. Imagine

waiting three months. A 12-week wait time would bring down one’s chance

of survival by roughly 26 percent. Sadly, that is what British

Columbians are doing right now. They’re waiting months and months for

treatment. This is why our outcomes keep getting worse and our

wait-lists longer, with more lives on the line.

I’ve been speaking with constituents who are being given these

wait times. A patient given six months to live if not treated and then

being told that the first meeting with a specialist is going to be in

three. A woman in her 40s waiting months for minor surgery to remove

cancerous tissue in her cervix, only to have it grow and then need a

full hysterectomy after wait times. Another who is being told that she

has to wait two months for radiation to even start. We need better

cancer care.

B.C. is experiencing the longest waits in Canada, and this is

simply unacceptable. No other province in Canada has seen such a

colossal decline in its cancer system. This decline represents a huge

failure in governance and oversight. Radical change is needed, and it is

needed now. Patients are being forced to wait months before their first

consultation, and many don’t survive much longer, after losing precious

time waiting for their turn.

Many of these deaths would have been avoidable had the government

taken the necessary steps to ensure that our cancer care wait times are

actively being mitigated and addressed. These lives can be saved, and we

need to make sure we give everyone the chance to fight for their right

to survive. With wait times that far exceed expert recommendations, the

cruel reality of waiting for cancer treatment in B.C. is that it’s only

increasingly dangerous and tragic.

The excuses have to stop. Radical change is required. We’ve heard

the excuse for the increase in cases due to aging, but we were warned,

and we all knew that this would happen. It could have been planned for,

but it wasn’t. The increase in cases is not the reason. Failure to plan

for capacity in a timely manner is the issue.

What can be done? Well, we need systemwide changes. It’s not just

about tweaking the edges or giving minor amounts of money. Small cheques

are not going to fix a broken system that this government failed to fix.

It’s about radical overhaul. B.C. Cancer delivered a ten-year cancer

plan but has yet to see it accepted or funded, and meanwhile, people die

on wait-lists.

Let me be clear. Oncologists, radiologists, technicians, nurses —

they are the heroes of this story. But B.C. oncologists are burning out

because of the lack of resources and massive underfunding. A study

recently done shows that B.C. is the worst for burnout in Canada. The

same study showed that they are not being consulted enough in policy

decisions.

The Minister of Health spoke about new positions being funded but

neglected to say or give indication that there are 18 oncologists who

have actually left B.C. because of the working conditions and the lack

of support that doesn’t allow them to properly do their

roles.

[10:45 a.m.]

Things have to change with the leadership structure and how cancer

treatment is being administered. We need proactive, funded, predictive

planning that will accommodate the capacity necessary to treat cancer.

Clearly, it is not working.

B.C. has fallen from first place in cancer outcomes in Canada to

last place in wait times in Canada, according to the Canadian Institute

for Health Information. We’re moving backwards, not forwards, as cancer

care quality and efficiency, under the current administration, are

worsening.

Families of cancer patients are tired, and they deserve answers.

Why? Why have we gone from best to worst? Why are oncologists leaving

our province? Why are patients paying the price with their

lives?

What we can’t see in the numbers, which would even be worse for

B.C., are the layered effects of waiting: waiting to see a family

doctor, waiting for imaging studies, waiting for a biopsy booking,

waiting for results to be reported, waiting to see an oncologist for a

consultation, waiting to have treatment once a decision has been made to

treat.

The current system is placing an incredible amount of unfathomable

burden on patients who are already facing the fight of their lives. This

has to stop.

A. Singh: There’s nothing quite like a cancer diagnosis, the surreal feeling

one gets when they’re first told they have cancer. The anxiety it

creates for oneself and one’s loved ones, especially, is a phenomenon

within itself.

I’ll tell you a short story, my story, from May of 2021, when I

went in for a regular FIT test. Having done them before, I didn’t think

much of it until my doctor called me back and told me that they’d found

a microscopic amount of blood in my stool. That’s what a FIT test is.

Nothing likely to worry about but better to move forward, given my age

and demographic, with a colonoscopy to rule out cancer. Just the idea

that I might possibly have cancer was frightening, and then came the

associated wait before I was scheduled for a colonoscopy.

Now, I remember the wait times. I remember them from my father’s

experience in the mid-2000s, 2004 to 2005. He had been diagnosed with

prostate cancer. His journey — and the wait time, from the very first

test, where something was suspected, to the final diagnosis and

treatment — I think created more anxiety in all of us, his family, than

in him. I experienced something similar. Maybe it’s a survival instinct

or mechanism. My poor family, I believe, had it much worse than I

did.

My colonoscopy wasn’t until the middle of August, when they found

a mass that was likely a cancerous tumour. A few weeks later pathology

confirmed that I had stage 3 colon cancer. It was shocking. I had had no

symptoms, and I was already at such a late stage. I had gone in for what

was a routine yearly test.

By the end of August, it was confirmed that I had stage 3 colon

cancer. The treatment didn’t start until the middle of October,

radiation first, then chemotherapy for a few months — for months and

months, actually — and then two surgeries, the last one being in late

August. I’m pleased to say today that I stand here. My CT scans show

that I’m cancer-free. My tumour markers show that I’m

cancer-free.

On today’s topic, I’m essentially a walking, talking, living

representation of cancer and wait times within our system, a very recent

representation. I have to say, throughout the whole process…. When my

loved ones here and overseas expressed concern about the time between

each step and the next, I reminded them and myself of my father’s

journey — again, almost 17 years ago — with similar waits and the

positive outcome that he’d had.

My mantra was that our health care professionals are exemplary,

and I chose to trust that I would be taken care of. I know not all are

as lucky, but I chose that. I was treated with nothing but kindness,

care and respect throughout my whole journey, and I remain eternally

grateful for that.

We all understand that there has been a shift. We cannot deny the

jarring fact that we have been in a global medical crisis for the last

2½ years. That has exacerbated an already stressed system that, frankly,

should have been funded — cognizant of the population growth, cognizant

of the aging of the population — a long time ago, maybe in the times

that my father was getting his treatment.

There are always improvements to be made, and we’ve been doing

that for the last few years. I know how scary it is for a family to be

faced with this and the uncertainty of how long they will wait and what

kind of treatment they will get. Again, I’ll stress how exemplary our

health care professionals are. They, more than anyone else, know

firsthand the stressors that exist within the system.

[10:50 a.m.]

In terms of patients now, patients who are waiting for a new

patient appointment are triaged and retriaged to ensure that those

urgently in need of care are seen as soon as possible. There are a

number of factors that go into how patients are triaged for

appointments, including tumour type, stage of disease, symptoms of the

patient and treatment options available for the patient. Generally for

cases like mine, there’s a team of oncologists that has a meeting to

discuss and decide the best course forward.

For new patient appointments, we see, approximately, in British

Columbia, 50 percent of people within the first four weeks of referral

and 90 percent within eight weeks. Recent investments from the Ministry

of Health, including $41 million added to B.C. Cancer’s base funding,

will have a meaningful impact by improving access to care and improving

the quality of care. This follows an additional funding of $25 million

in the previous fiscal year.

Collectively, these investments enable B.C. Cancer to hire just

under 400 new physicians, clinical and support staff. That includes, I

believe, 48 new oncology positions and 25 new alternate payment

program–funded physicians.

What this means is that we’re building capacity. We will continue,

in the next few years, with our ten-year cancer plan — 17 new MRI

machines and an additional 200,000 CT scans. This ten-year plan lays out

the necessary resources that we need to deal with the system now but

also to deal with the fact that over the next ten to 15 years, with the

increase in our aging population, we need to be able to respond by

increasing our capacity.

R. Merrifield: I’m so pleased about the positive result from my colleague across

the aisle. Unfortunately, his story is unique, because as of this fall,

only one in five patients referred to an oncologist received the first

consultation within the recommended period of two weeks in B.C. About 75

percent of patients in Ontario are seen within that two weeks. So why

are the patients in British Columbia waiting so long for their

treatment, and why does this government not have a solution?

My colleague also mentioned the new positions for oncologists. He

neglected to mention the 18 that have left B.C. in just the first nine

months of this year.

So what happens when patients wait? Well, other than a lower

chance of survival, there are higher costs. Increased wait times have

also led to very significant psychological suffering for

patients.

Dr. Applewhaite says: “Many patients are choosing MAiD because of

both their physical suffering with their disease and the mental

suffering of not knowing when they’ll hear the options and whether

they’ll be able to take up those options when they’re offered to them.

I’ve seen it many times now, and it’s heartbreaking. It should not be

that way.”

Months-long wait times mean patients are being left both in limbo

and in pain when treatments could help them. Patients as young as 40 die

before they even have their first consultations, but these patients are

able to access MAID in as little as two days, allowing them the choice

of death before the disease progresses and their pain worsens. The fact

that choosing death over waiting for a failing system is now a reality

for too many cancer patients in B.C. is not something that this

government should be proud of.

From April to June, just 4.7 percent of patients with endometrial

cancer on B.C.’s Mainland were able to have surgery within the target

time of eight weeks from diagnosis. Only 3.9 percent of patients with

grade 1 and 2 tumours were able to have surgery within the target time

of six weeks from referral, while no patients with grade 3 tumours were

able to have surgery within the target time of four weeks from

referral.

I have a story, too, because I watched a family member on this

excruciating waiting journey, resulting in a far more difficult surgery

after a six-month wait time from diagnosis. Patients waiting,

oncologists devastated, cancer progressing, patients dying…. Timely

cancer is literally a matter of life and death.

Change starts at the top. Responsibility is the

leadership.

[10:55 a.m.]

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Mr. Speaker, I ask that the House now consider proceeding with

Motion 15, standing in the name of the member for

Vancouver-Kensington.

Deputy Speaker: Members, unanimous consent is required to proceed to Motion 15

without disturbing the priorities of the motions preceding it on the

order paper.

Leave not granted.

Deputy Speaker: As leave was not granted, we will be proceeding to the next order

of the day, and that is the Equal Pay Reporting Act, Bill

M202.

Second Reading of Bills

BILL M202 — EQUAL PAY REPORTING

ACT

(continued)

R. Merrifield: It is my pleasure to take my place in the second reading debate.

This debate is not about whether women are equal. This is about how this

House goes about moving the dial forward on equality, how we continually

push for greater measures to ensure this, because inequities still

exist.

[J. Tegart in the chair.]

Women and gender-diverse people in this province continue to face

discrimination and bias despite the efforts of extraordinary women —

women like Jeanne Mance, who founded Canada’s first hospital in 1645;

Viola Desmond, who challenged segregation practices; B.C.’s own Emily

Carr, whose legacy continues to inspire artists from across this

country; or Mary Ellen Smith, the first woman elected to serve in this

Legislative Assembly in 1918.

The sacrifices, passion and determination of these women, amongst

many, many others in history, have allowed generations of women like me

to accomplish what would have otherwise been considered

impossible.

While I’ve listed Canadian women, we could also speak of Ruth

Bader Ginsburg and all she did in her lifetime to move the dial forward:

the right to sign a mortgage without a man, the right to have a bank

account without a male cosigner, the right to have a job without being

discriminated based on gender, the right for women to be pregnant, have

kids and work.

The international movement for women’s rights has been ongoing for

more than a century. Yet here we are again with an opportunity to move

the dial forward with this equal pay bill. Will we do it? I will. I am.

Will you?

What have we done so far? Well, do we have free contraception?

Nope. Why free contraception? Why does that mean so much? Well, it is

expensive to be a woman. Yes, there are hair products, clothes, nail

products and makeup. But then there are feminine hygiene products and

contraception. If you have ever figured out the costs of these last

items, you’ve realized how expensive it is just to be a

woman.

Interestingly, there have been studies done that show that there’s

actually a pink tax. Women’s products cost more than men’s. This

phenomenon is real. Have you ever looked?

There’s also a phenomenon called period poverty, where the costs

of being a woman become unbearable. I would argue that the first items,

perhaps hair and makeup, could be considered discretionary. But the last

two are not.

In the last provincial election, I celebrated the fact that all

three parties promised free contraception for women. This was something

that everyone could agree on. It was something that could have continued

to ask for. But I’m disappointed that the NDP government has had six

years to deliver on this promise and hasn’t.

Why is it so important? Equity. It’s the same reason this bill is

so important. Contraception is expensive. The types of contraception

that typically have less side effects are usually the ones that cost

more. Many women can’t afford contraception, which leads to unwanted

pregnancies. It’s estimated that 30 to 40 percent of pregnancies in

Canada are unintentional, according to Dr. Vivian Tam, a family

emergency physician based in Ottawa.

[11:00 a.m.]

I’m going to quote her. “This disproportionately happens amongst

young women who are quite young, so those that are 15 to 24 years of

age, those who live in rural and remote communities in Canada, who

belong to Indigenous communities or are newcomers to Canada.” This is

the group that has the most difficulty in accessing contraception at

large, but in particular, long-acting, reversible contraceptives, which

are the most effective form of contraception.

Having free contraception allows those from marginalized

communities, whether rural remote or lower socioeconomic backgrounds, an

equal footing when it comes to family planning. Access to medical

personnel is also difficult, so having reliable and long-term

contraception is important. Free contraception also decreases the

disparity between those with additional medical coverage or the means to

afford different forms of birth control. It’s another small blow to the

cycle of poverty.

Additionally, contraception allows a greater degree of choice as a

woman and is a form of gender equality. Making sure that women have

access to birth control is imperative when reducing gender disparity,

and it’s vital for equality that we see this come to fruition.

Similarly, this bill is another way to advance gender equality. We have

extraordinary women in this province, employed in all sorts of jobs, and

despite this, deep inequality continues to persist in B.C. in the gender

pay gap. The worst in Canada — this is not a badge that any province

should want to wear. Women in this province are earning 18.6 percent

less than men. On average, women earn $5.90 less per hour. This is

unacceptable.

The Equal Pay Reporting Act takes the first step in remedying this

pay gap by requiring businesses of a prescribed size to report the pay

gap between male and female employees. These employers will be required

to disclose the mean and median pay to a designated registrar. The

gender pay gap must also be published on the employer’s website and on

the website designed by the registrar. Closing the pay gap is a

necessary measure for equality and in support of our economy.

A few years ago, when I was still in the private sector, we were

interviewing for a new role within our company. I’d asked to take a look

at the final three candidates and weigh in with the hiring team.

Candidate 1 — engineer for six years, worked in a few roles, no

management experience, wanted $95,000 a year. Candidate 2 — engineer for

seven years, had some management experience, wanted $105,000 a year.

Candidate 3 — engineer for seven years, most project management

experience of any of them, had some management experience on the team

and wanted $85,000.

I asked what the difference between the candidates was. Well, they

all received excellent reviews, especially candidate 3, the last one.

When I asked, “Was there any noticeable difference between the three

candidates?” the manager looked at me and sheepishly said: “Well, the

third one was a woman.” “Hire her,” I told the team, “but we’re going to

hire her on merit alone, and we are going to pay her what the other

candidate asked for in pay.”

This shows a societal norm of how women underestimate our skills.

Do we not negotiate as hard for wages, or do we just not know what

anyone else is getting paid and need a bill like this to make sure that

there is more open and transparent data?

If we thought things were bad before, things have only become

worse for women. The pandemic has highlighted and exacerbated the

existing inequalities in this province. During pandemic closures, women

were particularly impacted by job losses due to their disproportionate

representation in service industries; 1.5 million Canadian women lost

their jobs in the first two months of the pandemic.

[11:05 a.m.]

This isn’t just a job loss. This is a huge setback in your career,

in your advancement, in your ability to actually move forward. But this

wasn’t the only change during the pandemic. You see, women also found

increased responsibilities in the pandemic, both in the workplace and in

the home.

Being highly represented in care industries, the additional

responsibilities in health care and long-term-care settings created more

pressure and stress on women, in addition to the increased risk

exposure. Women are more likely to perform precarious work, especially

women of colour and newcomer women in this province. The lack of

recognition for their contributions and responsibilities leaves them

underpaid and overworked. I actually had female executives coming to me

in tears, feeling that they were failing their kids, failing their

businesses, failing their communities, failing their families, all

because they were having to manage a household a full 24-7, kids in Zoom

school who they felt were falling behind, and trying to manage

businesses with such great uncertainty. They were completely

overloaded.

So it’s no wonder that the pandemic had a massive impact on mental

health, particularly as many British Columbians of all genders

experienced financial distress. Even pre-pandemic, however, women in

B.C. were more likely to experience stress as well as lower confidence

about their finances. A Vancity study in 2018 found that compared to

women across Canada, women in B.C. had more concerns about their

financial health. Almost half of female Gen X’ers and millennials said

that money worries make them feel physically unwell and cause extreme

emotional distress. More than ever, we understand the importance of

mental health.

While all British Columbians are worried about the increased

inflation and unaffordability challenges, women are especially impacted,

as they perform equal work with less pay. The long-standing unequal

distribution of family and child care responsibilities were also

exacerbated. A study in 2019 found that Canadian women did 50 percent

more unpaid housework than men. Women were also twice as likely to spend

ten hours a week or more caring for a senior. I shudder to think what

those statistics were during the pandemic.

Societal expectations place the burden of caring responsibilities

on women, leaving them to juggle both paid and unpaid responsibilities.

When child care facilities and schools closed due to the pandemic, many

women found themselves pressured to balance work and child care. The

increased stress of caring for seniors vulnerable to COVID also added to

the burden of responsibilities. Now it’s even worse. Inflation has

skyrocketed, making things less affordable and more expensive just to

get by. Rent or food? Food or contraception? Contraception or utilities?

Utilities or gas? Gas or kid’s soccer? Kid’s soccer or daycare? Daycare

or my job?

Women are giving up. Because of these increased challenges and

pressures during the pandemic, and now with inflation, many women are

leaving the workforce, citing reasons such as uneven parenting

responsibilities, lack of flexibility in their jobs and layoffs, or the

money isn’t worth it.

Women will play an integral role in our economic recovery, but the

current conditions do not foster a welcoming environment for their

participation. This is not only concerning for women’s rights but also

for the sake of our economy and our future here in British Columbia. We

need women in the workforce, and we need this House and this majority

NDP government to step up and make this happen.

[11:10 a.m.]

As we face a labour shortage in this province, the majority of

small businesses in B.C. are struggling to find enough staff. In the

next ten years, it’s forecasted that we’ll have another million jobs to

fill. Eighty percent of these job openings will require post-secondary

education or training, so it’s necessary to have skilled talent in this

province to ensure a thriving economy and B.C.’s future as an economic

leader. This, however, is not possible when half of the population is

unable to achieve participation in the workforce.

Women in this province are surpassing men in obtaining

post-secondary degrees, so school, education, intelligence — well, those

aren’t an issue. According to Statistics Canada, 56.4 percent of

post-secondary graduates in 2019 were female. Every year more than

40,000 women graduate with post-secondary degrees in this province. They

graduate with high expectations for their futures, and rightly so. When

female graduates in this province are outpacing male graduation rates,

it seems like we’re starting to move in the right direction. What is the

issue, then? Let’s go back to it: contraception, health care, child

care, seniors care and equal pay.

Unfortunately, women still continue to be underrepresented and

underpaid. The average annual salary for a woman with a bachelor’s

degree in British Columbia is $62,000. The average annual salary for men

with a bachelor’s degree is $86,000. This $24,000 difference is not only

astounding, but it’s unfair. This legislation is a clear signal that

this is no longer acceptable in this province and that women can and

should expect equal pay for equal work.

Women and gender-diverse peoples must receive the respect,

recognition and pay that they deserve. Without these conditions, we’re

going to see our economy lose out on incredible talent. Our female

graduates want to work in B.C., but if they know that they will not

receive the compensation that they deserve, they’ll move elsewhere,

where the pay gap is smaller. Taking action on the pay gap means doing

what is right for our communities, our economies and our

future.

It is also pertinent to highlight that the pay gap affects women

and gender-diverse peoples in British Columbia in different ways. The

intersectionality of experiences means that other identities such as

race, disability and gender identity often lead to some women facing an

even larger gap.

According to Statistics Canada’s 2016 census data, racialized

women earn an average of 33 percent less than non-racialized men. That’s

67 cents to the dollar. Indigenous women face a 35 percent pay gap, and

women with disabilities face a 46 percent pay gap. According to a 2011

survey, about half of transgender individuals earn $15,000 or less per

year, despite 71 percent having some level of post-secondary

education.

Here in British Columbia, diversity is our strength, but in order

to embrace the full benefits of a diverse society, we have to uplift

these identities and champion equality. Through legislating pay

transparency, we can encourage businesses across B.C. to close the pay

gap. By making visible the biases that exist in our workplaces,

businesses will understand what gaps exist in their teams and hiring

processes.

So what does this bill do? Well, right now women cannot make

complaints if they don’t know how much their male colleagues are making

in comparison. Workers aren’t supposed to discuss their salaries with

each other, but it’s this critical information that keeps women in the

workforce from arguing for and getting better wages.

[11:15 a.m.]

Back to the three candidates. Women don’t know what their male

equivalents are making, and it’s taboo to talk about it. We need this

bill to actually make sure that women know what they should be

advocating for. Imagine the impact of this legislation if any woman

could just suddenly go online and see what that job is worth in the

marketplace, figure out whether they’re being paid less and be able to

approach their bosses with that information. Better yet, what are the

chances that the employer would just do it, would make those pay grades

equal because they didn’t want that data out in the public to

see?

According to West Coast Legal Education and Action Fund, the

current “complaint-based system…places the onus of ensuring equal pay

for work of equal value on individuals, companies and unions, rather

than employers, to bring forward a complaint and spend their limited

resources to pursue lengthy litigation.” In order to achieve true gender

equality, women cannot be the only ones working towards equity. The

current system transfers that responsibility of companies to the

workers.

This bill would actually allow a voice of advocacy. It would

empower women. Pay transparency gives that tool to negotiate equal pay,

so rather than any company holding the upper hand in that negotiation,

it would actually allow women to speak up and advocate for themselves.

We know this works, because it has been implemented for public servants

in our province since the 1990s.

If you look at the salary disclosure list for university faculty

members…. One study has done that. It found that the wage gap narrowed

between 30 to 40 percent after pay transparency was legislated for

public sector wages. The banks — they’ve done a great job in this as

well, in sharing their statistics and closing the gaps. But then we see

headlines about surgeons and female surgeons and how dramatically they

are underpaid.

B.C. is an outlier. We’re an outlier because we are one of the

last, the very last, to implement any measures for equal pay. This bill

is going to ensure that our province finally takes a small step forward,

a step towards gender equity and, at least, just falls in line with the

rest of the country.

Yes, there have been measures that have been implemented in almost

every other jurisdiction across Canada. I mean, the federal government

is the most recent to embrace pay transparency, having passed the Pay

Equity Act last year. That helps the federally regulated workers with

more than 100 employees, but it’s one small step.

In 2019, Ontario introduced pay transparency legislation that

requires employers to include a salary range for publicly posted jobs

and prohibits employers from punishing employees for disclosing

compensation. In B.C., we’re one of four that does not have any pay

equity legislation, and the impact is clear. I’ve already stated what

that impact is. We have the worst pay gap between men and women. It’s

time that we support this very basic measure for women’s

rights.

This is not a reinvention. This bill is actually largely based on

the United Kingdom’s gender pay gap. That came into force in 2017. Has

it worked? Yes, it has.

Understandably, women avoid working in companies where they know

that women are being paid less, but right now in B.C., we don’t know if

we’re being paid less. We need this bill. We need equal pay, and we need

legislation to actually make that happen.

[11:20 a.m.]

To quote Francesca Lawson: “You can’t say that you’re doing really

well for equality if you’ve not got the numbers behind you to support

it. We don’t want to see nice headshots of your female employees. We

don’t want to see panel discussions that you’re running. We want you to

tell us how you’ve identified your problems, what you’re going to do to

fix them, and if you have something to shout about — if you’re doing

well — well, show us the data.”

This is only the first step. But as we know, if we don’t measure

it, we’re not going to change it.

Will this completely make an equal playing field? No. We know that

there are so many other barriers. But this equal pay legislation is the

foundation for action. If we continue on the trajectory that we’re on

today…. Well, I mean, we could choose to do that. This NDP government

could choose to do that, But it will take us 267.6 years. That’s how

long it will take us to close the gender gap. I don’t want to wait. I

don’t want to wait ten generations.

My colleague the former MLA for Surrey South was the one who

championed this. She introduced this bill five times. Five times she

introduced it to this House, and five times this majority NDP government

refused to take it forward. While they wait, well, women lose out. They

lose out on wages. They lose out on advancement. They lose out on moving

it forward — the cause for equality between men and women.

G. Lore: What a pleasant surprise this morning to get to stand and speak

about gender equity here in the House. I am the designated speaker to

this bill.

I was appointed the Parliamentary Secretary for Gender Equity two

years ago, and for me, this is an absolute dream post. I believe the

previous speaker once used a metaphor about real cowboys and fake

cowboys and dirty jeans and callused hands. I’ll put my dirty jeans on

for this issue any day.

There’s no question. Too many women in B.C. are still making less

than men. Last year in B.C., women earned, on average, 16.7 percent less

than men. The majority of part-time, minimum wage and low-paid workers

are women. Many continue to face barriers to employment, including

affordable child care.

Closing the gender pay gap is essential. That’s why we are

planning to move forward with our commitment to introduce pay

transparency legislation.

Now, part of that has to be a journey where we work collectively

with employers, with employees, with labour, with advocacy

organizations, with First Nations. I’ve been undertaking this work over

the last several months, having conversations with those who are in the

labour movement, who are employers, who are the employees that we’re

talking about.

How do we build a system that works here in B.C., that rises to

the challenge before us, that is workable from the perspective of

employers, that gets us what we need in terms of data as government, as

prospective employees, as investors?

[11:25 a.m.]

We know people are looking to work in places, to invest in places,

to shop at places where more than the bottom line is at stake, where

there’s a commitment to more than the bottom line. That includes equity.

It includes opportunities for growth and leadership. It includes

pay.

One thing that I find just a little challenging this morning in

this conversation is how selective the other side is when it comes to

taking steps to reduce the pay gap. We know there is a myriad of causes.

The causes are diverse. It is the unequal burden of unpaid labour. It is

sectoral concentration, where we continue, collectively, to undervalue

the work that is traditionally done by women, work that is…. It’s hard

to imagine anything more important — traditional caring roles, child

care, front-line service for anti-violence organizations,

nurses.

We continue, collectively, as a society, not here in B.C. but all

of us, to undervalue work that is traditionally done by women. This is

part of the pay gap. So is blatant discrimination. We know that’s one

component of this.

The steps that we need to take as government, as British

Columbians to address the pay gap include pay transparency. People need

this information to make decisions about where they’re going to work,

about where they’re going to shop, about where they’re going to invest.

It also has to involve a multi-point plan, steps getting at every source

of the gender pay gap. This is where the selectiveness of support for

addressing the pay gap comes in.

The previous speaker to this bill mentioned child care. Without a

doubt, this is so important. Parents can’t choose between an income to

pay for and support their family and a safe, healthy, quality,

affordable place for their child to live — maybe it feels like that

sometimes — and to be during the day, when they’re working.

We have made unprecedented investments in child care. The cost of

child….

Interjections.

G. Lore: “No results” is what was mentioned on the other side.

Parents are going to see that when they write their cheque for

their child care in December. That is a huge, huge difference to

families when they’re making decisions about employment, about where

they can live, about the growth and wellness of their babies.

Interjections.

Deputy Speaker: I’d remind members that the member has the floor.

G. Lore: The investments in child care are a massive part of reducing the

pay gap.

Related to that and a piece I don’t want to miss — and something

that was voted against by the previous member — is the early childhood

educator wage enhancement. If we want to talk about pay equity, we need

those who provide our child care to be receiving wages that reflect the

value of the service they provide. The early child care wage enhancement

is about making sure that we have more people in this field.

Without a doubt — to one of the members opposite — we have a lot

of work to do to make sure that all parents can find a space in their

community. We are doing that work, and part of that work is the early

childhood educator wage enhancement. This is about building a more

robust child care system for everyone in our community who needs it.

It’s also about the wages of those child care workers, the vast majority

of whom are women.

[11:30 a.m.]

The wage enhancement is a double whammy when we’re talking about

the gender pay gap. It is about making sure we can pull more people into

this incredibly important sector, a sector that was abandoned and

undervalued for so long.

But it’s also about making sure that those people who provide that

service have a wage that reflects the skill set and the value they bring

to children, to families and to communities. I can’t tell you, as a

parent of….

Interjection.

G. Lore: I think there were lots of issues covered.

I can’t tell you…. As a parent of two kids who are just recently

out of child care, having a space that I was able to have my kids safe

and healthy and learning during the day — I can’t put a dollar value on

that. But there is a dollar value, and it needs to be affordable for

families while ensuring that those care providers have wages that they

can live on. And that is what the early childhood educator wage

enhancement is about.

So as much as I’m thrilled to also talk about pay transparency,

the consistency and support for the range of issues that address the pay

gap would sure be nice.

I also want to talk about raising the minimum wage. Sixty percent

of minimum-wage earners are women. When you freeze that for years, you

are not addressing the gender pay gap; you are cementing it. You are

enshrining it in legislation.

Interjection.

G. Lore: Sixty percent of minimum-wage earners are women. If the member

opposite wants to talk about leaving this issue at equal pay for exactly

the same job, we can sure do that. But when we think about what the pay

gap means, the numbers that were cited, that is not just about two

people in exactly the same job, nor is it what would happen under this

pay transparency legislation.

The gap is due to unequal burdens and unpaid care, sector

concentration — that is, sectors that we have undervalued over time —

and it’s due to discrimination. We need to think about all aspects of

those.

The liquor server wage, less than minimum wage — 80 percent of

those workers were women. We got rid of that. That is a legislated pay

gap.

Now, for folks who want to talk about gratuities and other things

that go into that salary, we’re talking about leaving folks vulnerable

to what we know happens in the service sector sometimes. We’ve seen it

here in my community regarding sexual harassment, because you’re not

worth a minimum wage at the starting point.

More pieces of this puzzle that the opposition has been selective

about supporting: support to women in skilled trades, to women and other

folks in tech and other fields in which they are underrepresented —

fields that are high-growth, high-paying. If you want to address the pay

gap, you cannot ignore the ways in which there is underrepresentation in

high-growth, high-paying fields.

Upskilling, micro-credentialing — these are part of the answer.

And it would sure be nice if we also had support and agreement on these

ways to tackle this issue.

I want to talk about the repatriation of health care workers. If

what the previous speaker says is the motivation behind having this

conversation this morning — and that is inequities; that is financial

inequity; it is the risk that comes with being not financially

independent — then we need to talk about health care workers who saw

their wages cut, their job security lost and their access to pensions

and stability gone overnight. The vast majority of those workers —

racialized women.

Deputy Speaker: I would ask the member to address the bill.

[11:35 a.m.]

G. Lore: I believe, Madam Speaker, contraception was part of the previous

conversation, a whole host of aspects, but I’m happy to speak to

questions around the legislation.

I want to raise a couple of things. As the previous speaker to

this bill noted, the gender pay gap is not just about gender. The other

things I’ve raised are also not just about gender — for example, the

repatriation of racialized health care workers.

We can agree that the gap is bigger for racialized women, that

Indigenous women face a way bigger gap, that people with disabilities….

We need to do the work to ensure that pay transparency does not smooth

over the intersectional nature of the gender pay gap. The gaps…. We need

to make sure that the pay transparency does not smooth over the gaps

that racialized, Indigenous and women with disabilities face.

There’s nothing in this legislation that addresses the

intersectional nature of the pay gap. If we meaningfully want to address

the gap, we need to actually understand and get into the ways in which

it differently affects people here in B.C., because the consequence of a

lack of financial independence is extremely significant. We cannot miss

the ways in which it impacts people differently.

As part of that, we’re incredibly lucky to have the heavy lifting

that was done on the anti-racism data legislation, these essential first

steps that work with communities about how their data is collected, how

their data is stored and how their data is used. We know that this kind

of data around gender, around gender identity, around race, around

indigeneity has been weaponized, in the past, against communities. In

order to have pay transparency that fully paints the picture of the pay

gap here in B.C., we need to build on what we know and the groundwork

that has been laid in the anti-racism data legislation.

I also want to address some of the questions raised around the

impacts of the pandemic. Without a doubt, women lost more work, and they

lost it for longer. They were in these hard-hit sectors: tourism,

hospitality, retail. We know that the impacts of the pandemic on these

sectors were significant. Having a look at pay transparency as part of

the solution to that needs, as I said, to address that sectoral

concentration, which is why women lost more work and for longer. Pay

transparency is one component of that. So is the upskilling. So is the

investment in women in trades. So is the work to ensure that these

workplaces are safe.

Getting a job is one thing. Being able to retain it and work in

safe places is another. This is work we have to do. And so as we are

undertaking this work, we are doing so in consultations, so that we can

hear from partners and stakeholders on their experiences; so that we can

hear the ways in which the transparency and the reporting can work for

B.C., for employers, for labour; so that we can hear the other ways in

which the gender pay gap is reinforced.

Transparency on pay is going to be a really significant piece of

this puzzle, but it is one piece of this puzzle. By engaging in

consultations on the legislation, we’re able to identify those other key

spots. It’s really important that we hear this.

[11:40 a.m.]

As PS, some of the things I heard in those consultations mirror

some of the things that the member opposite raised in her thoughts on

this bill. But I also heard a lot of other things about the ways that we

need to work cross-government, how the roots of that pay gap won’t be

addressed in pay transparency, with the exception of some of this

bringing to light, this illuminating some of the opportunities for

public accountability, some of the opportunities for individuals as

they’re looking for work and as they’re looking to spend their

dollars.

Where do I want to spend that? Where is the place that is treating

its employees equitably and that has their lens to this? Let me tell

you, there are such important and interesting and exciting examples here

in B.C. of companies that are leading the way on this, because they know

it’s good for business, because they know it’s the right thing to

do.

Unbounce is an incredible organization in the tech industry.

They’ve been working on this for ages, calling in other companies. How

do we get this right? What are you doing? Have you looked inside? Have

you looked inside your organization? Have you identified the spots where

you’re not doing great? Pay transparency is going to be part of the

solution to that for companies, for businesses, for organizations that

are not there yet.

In those consultations, we heard a whole host of other things we

need to have our eye on. I’ve mentioned some of them already.

Again, the work that we’re doing on this legislation — legislation

we have committed to, legislation that will be rooted and grounded in

consultations and collaboration with a wide range of stakeholders — is

already cross-government. We’re working with the Ministry of Labour and

the Ministry of Finance, but as part of what we hear already in these

two ministries, we’re reaching out to our other colleagues regarding the

sources of the pay gap that exists.

I want to speak a little bit to what’s happening in other

provinces, because we learn a lot when we see what our colleagues across

the country are doing and what is and isn’t working. The member

mentioned Ontario. The legislation there did receive assent from the

former government, but it has not yet been enforced. If the bar of what

we’re talking about is to have something passed but not in operation, we

could do that now.

Interjection.

G. Lore: It’s so interesting, heckling when I’m talking about gender equity

in this place. So interesting.

The bar, for us, is building something that works. Ontario passed

legislation. It did get royal assent. It’s not in operation. We need to

build something that’s going to work here for our diverse

stakeholders.

The federal government has taken really important steps on this

front. Pay transparency measures are in place for federally regulated

employers. We have a nice dashboard where we get a look at what that gap

looks like across the country in federally regulated

employers.

What learnings can we do? What do we need to know from our federal

counterparts for how we build this bill, how we build regulations and

how we work in the experience that has been had on pay transparency

federally? How do we work it in to make sure that it works here in B.C.?

How do we do something other than have something that lands royal assent

and then doesn’t go into force? I don’t know about the members opposite,

but when I think about what I want B.C.’s pay transparency to look like,

I’m not landing at a bill that’s not in effect.

[11:45 a.m.]

We can point to examples around the country. We should also point

to examples around the country where it working.

I want to also speak to leadership. I talked about the need for

pay transparency to be combined with other aspects of getting at the

roots of the gender pay gap. Now, part of this is about not just

sectoral concentration, which I’ve spoken a little bit about, how we

address that, but also where in organizations folks are concentrated. We

need to have a sense about where in an organization folks

are.

As I mentioned, the vast majority of minimum wage earners are

women, so when we freeze minimum wage, we enshrine the gender pay gap.

But we can also think about the other end of the spectrum. We have been

undertaking work to ensure that there are more women on public sector

boards, increasing that to more than 51 percent. That’s a 23 percent

increase from 2017. When we talk about the pay gap, we need to talk

about where people are in organizations, where they are in

sectors.

Another way I want to ground this conversation, and maybe the

selective support for it, is in the impact on my other main

responsibility — that is, the gender-based violence file. When people do

not have financial independence or opportunities for financial

independence, that is a cause of violence. Folks cannot seek safety if

they cannot support their families.

We have made unprecedented investments in another area that was

just frozen, and that is the anti-violence sector. We’re talking about a

sector that provides essential care and often does so heavily on the

basis of volunteers or work that is supplemented by volunteer hours, the

vast majority of whom are women.

Again, we’re talking here about both addressing the wages of

people who do this essential work but also the care for folks who’ve

experienced the outcomes that are sometimes linked to the lack of

financial independence.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Now, I want to raise a couple of other things. One is…. I’ve done

it here. We often talk about the pay gap on a gender binary. Lots of

that is because we have the data we have. We know what we know, and lots

of our systems are built around a gender binary. But the reality is that

folks who are trans, non-binary or gender-diverse, from all indications

of the data that’s out there, face even larger gaps.

We need to be attentive to that when we build this legislation. If

we’re meaning to fully understand, recognize and address the gender pay

gap, we can’t rebuild it on a gender binary. Yesterday was the Trans Day

of Remembrance. We saw overnight in Colorado that transphobia,

homophobia continues to kill. We’ve seen threats here, including in my

community.

We know the barriers to employment, to advancement in employment,

to financial independence are significant for this community. We cannot

recreate that in this legislation, and we must continue to take steps to

increase opportunities for safe employment.

We made changes to how folks can correct their gender markers. If

you do not have an ID that reflects who you are, seeking employment,

interacting with government or employers can be an incredibly unsafe

place.

[11:50 a.m.]

Our work on SOGI, starting with kids but also thinking more

broadly about our obligations to the 2SLGBTQ community, is about

financial independence, does lead to financial independence, when people

can have jobs where they’re safe, earning an income that they

deserve.

When we undertake this work for pay transparency, part of our

consultations, part of our conversation is about how we take into

account, work in, make safe for folks who are outside the gender pay

gap.

Again, we need to learn and build from the work done on the

anti-racism data legislation. It is often not safe for folks who are

trans to share that with their employer. So how can we build that into

our system so we have the data we need, so we recognize the rights and

the safety of trans people and also make it safe for them to share their

data?

Now, again, it would sure be nice if some of these other aspects,

the true root causes of the gender pay gap, were part of what was

supported as a solution to this.

I, in my last couple of minutes, just want to speak to a couple of

other examples that were raised. One was: who asks for what kind of

salary? This is a huge challenge.

Another was people not being able to share what their salary is,

this culture of silence around pay and around compensation that leads to

less transparency. Well before we’re at the point of reporting to

government and reporting publicly the pay gap…. We have aspects — and

the member before me mentioned it — that keep things quiet or prevent

people from knowing what their colleagues are making as a way to

reinforce the gender pay gap.

The private member’s bill that’s before us does nothing to solve

those. It does nothing to ensure people have the information when

they’re applying to jobs, right? They can see a gap in an organization.

But in terms of having the information about where to start their ask,

about what they can expect to be paid, about being able to talk to

colleagues and saying, “Hold on a second. Is there a gap here, which is

existing in my organization, between me and this other person?” this

private member’s bill does nothing to address those.

If we want to take meaningful action, in addition to getting pay

transparency, where some of these measures are public, some of these

measures actually address the intersectional nature of the pay gap, we

also need to look at the other mechanisms, the other tools of

transparency. How can people have an even starting foot?

So often when someone goes from one job to another, they’re asked

about their previous salary. That’s a place where the pay gap is

reproduced. If you have a gap at your previous organization…. You’re

moving to a new organization, and this question is being asked. There’s

no pay scale on the job application. You’re being asked about your pay

in a previous position. That’s a lack of transparency, and that’s a

place where the pay gap is reproduced. This private member’s bill does

nothing to address it.

We need to take an all-hands-on-deck approach to this pay

transparency legislation, which we’ve committed to, working with, not on

our own, stakeholders. That includes employees, employers, precarious

workers. It includes advocates, people who have been asking for this.

How are we working together to make this right? It is also,

fundamentally, about hearing the other parts of the system that continue

to uphold the pay gap.

Noting the time, Mr. Speaker, I’d like to reserve my place to

continue. There is a lot to say. I’m seeking and hoping for support on

all approaches to this issue, not a singular one.

On that note, I reserve my place to continue my remarks and move

adjournment of the debate.

G. Lore moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. S. Malcolmson moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. this

afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:55 a.m.

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