British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, May 4, 2016

20160504pm-Hansard-v38n8

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fift h Session, 40th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) THE HONOURABLE LINDA REID, SPEAKER ISSN 0709- 1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) Wednesday, May 4, 2016 Aft ernoon Sitting Volume 38, Number 8

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC Fifth Session, 40th Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council .............................................................................................................. Hon. Christy Clark Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing ......................Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon. John Rustad Minister of Advanced Education ............................................................................................................................... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Minister of Agriculture ........................................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Norm Letnick Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development and Minister Responsible for TransLink ................ Hon. Peter Fassbender Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Mike Bernier Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review .....................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment ..........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Minister of Finance .................................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations......................................................................................Hon. Steve Th omson Minister of Health ............................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacifi c Strategy and Multiculturalism ........................................................................................... Hon.

Teresa Wat Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour ...................................................Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Justice ...............................................................................................................................................................Hon. Suzanne Anton Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ................................................................................................................. Hon.

Mike Morris Minister of Small Business and Red Tape Reduction and Minister Responsible for the Liquor Distribution Branch ........................................................................................................ Hon. Coralee Oakes Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation..............................................................................................Hon. Michelle Stilwell Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services ................................................................................................ Hon.

Amrik Virk Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure ......................................................................................................................Hon. Todd Stone Minister of State for Emergency Preparedness .................................................................................................................... Hon.

Naomi Y amamoto LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ...................................................................................................................................................John Horgan Deputy Speaker .............................................................................................................................................................................. Richard T. Lee Assistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ............................................................................................................................................ Pat Pimm Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ................................................................................................................................................... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees .................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ................................................................. .........................Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk ............................................................................................................................................. Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Fraserview Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal).....................................................................Penticton Austin, Robin (NDP) ................................................................................ Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP) ....................................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ............................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Bennett, Hon.

Bill (BC Liberal) ...................................................Kootenay East Bernier, Hon. Mike (BC Liberal) ......................................... Peace River South Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal) ........................... Prince George–Valemount Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal) ................................Surrey-Cloverdale Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) .................................Vancouver–West End Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................

Burnaby-Edmonds Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal) ........................................ Westside-Kelowna Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal) ...........................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .............................................................. Kootenay West Corrigan, Kathy (NDP) ..................................................... Burnaby–Deer Lake Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal) ............................................. Maple Ridge–Mission Darcy, Judy (NDP) ..................................................................New Westminster de Jong, Hon.

Michael, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Abbotsford West Dix, Adrian (NDP)............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Doug (NDP) ......................................................................... Stikine Eby, David (NDP) ..........................................................Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP) ................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ............................................................ Port Coquitlam Fassbender, Hon.

Peter (BC Liberal) ................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Fleming, Rob (NDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal) .......................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Scott (NDP) ............................................................Alberni–Pacifi c Rim Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ............................................. Abbotsford-Mission Hamilton, Wm.

Scott (BC Liberal) .................................................Delta North Hammell, Sue (NDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Heyman, George (NDP) .................................................... Vancouver-Fairview Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal) ............................................... Surrey–White Rock Holman, Gary (NDP) .......................................Saanich North and the Islands Horgan, John (NDP) .......................................................................

Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ....................................................Surrey-Panorama Huntington, Vicki (Ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, Carole (NDP) .........................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................Esquimalt–Royal Roads Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) ............................................................. Nanaimo Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Shuswap Lake, Hon. Dr.

Terry (BC Liberal) ....................Kamloops–North Th ompson Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .........................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal) ......................................................Burnaby North Letnick, Hon. Norm (BC Liberal) ..............................Kelowna–Lake Country Macdonald, Norm (NDP) ....................................Columbia River–Revelstoke McRae, Don (BC Liberal) ............................................................ Comox Valley Mark, Melanie (NDP) ...........................................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal) ..................................................................Chilliwack Morris, Hon. Mike (BC Liberal) ........................... Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Michelle (NDP) ..........................................................Nelson-Creston Oakes, Hon. Coralee (BC Liberal) .............................................Cariboo North Pimm, Pat (BC Liberal) .........................................................Peace River North Plecas, Dr. Darryl (BC Liberal) .............................................Abbotsford South Polak, Hon.

Mary (BC Liberal) .............................................................. Langley Popham, Lana (NDP) ...................................................................Saanich South Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ................................................................ Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (BC Liberal) ..................................................Richmond East Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal) ........................................

Port Moody–Coquitlam Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ........................................................................North Coast Robinson, Selina (NDP) .............................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Routley, Bill (NDP) .................................................................. Cowichan Valley Routley, Doug (NDP) ............................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, Hon. John (BC Liberal) ................................................

Nechako Lakes Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP) ...............................................Burnaby-Lougheed Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Shane (NDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Stilwell, Hon. Michelle (BC Liberal)............................... Parksville-Qualicum Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal) ........................................ Vancouver-Langara Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal) .........................

Kamloops–South Th ompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal) ..................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal) ...........................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ..................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ............................................................Fraser-Nicola Th omson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal) .......................................Kelowna-Mission Th ornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ..........................

North Vancouver–Seymour Th roness, Laurie (BC Liberal).................................................Chilliwack-Hope Trevena, Claire (NDP) .................................................................... North Island Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal) ............................................. Surrey-Tynehead Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal) .............................................. Richmond Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.) .......................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wickens, Jodie (NDP) ..........................................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Wilkinson, Hon.

Andrew (BC Liberal) ........................ Vancouver-Quilchena Y amamoto, Hon. Naomi (BC Liberal) ................ North Vancouver–Lonsdale Y ap, John (BC Liberal) ......................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ......................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ..................................................................... Dr. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West ...................................................... Hon.

Michael de Jong, QC Alberni–Pacifi c Rim .......................................................................... Scott Fraser Boundary-Similkameen ................................................................ Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ...................................................................

Kathy Corrigan Burnaby-Edmonds ..........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .............................................................Jane Jae Kyung Shin Burnaby North .............................................................................. Richard T. Lee Cariboo-Chilcotin ........................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................... Hon.

Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ......................................................................................... John Martin Chilliwack-Hope ....................................................................... Laurie Th roness Columbia River–Revelstoke .................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley.....................................................................................Don McRae Coquitlam–Burke Mountain .......................................................Jodie Wickens Coquitlam-Maillardville...........................................................

Selina Robinson Cowichan Valley ................................................................................ Bill Routley Delta North .........................................................................Wm. Scott Hamilton Delta South...............................................................................Vicki Huntington Esquimalt–Royal Roads .....................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ...................................................Hon.

Rich Coleman Fraser-Nicola.................................................................................... Jackie Tegart Juan de Fuca .....................................................................................John Horgan Kamloops–North Th ompson ............................................ Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Kamloops–South Th ompson ..................................................Hon. Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country ..................................................... Hon. Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission .............................................................. Hon.

Steve Th omson Kootenay East .......................................................................... Hon. Bill Bennett Kootenay West ............................................................................ Katrine Conroy Langley.......................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Maple Ridge–Mission ..................................................................... Marc Dalton Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................ Dr. Doug Bing Nanaimo ...........................................................................

Leonard Eugene Krog Nanaimo–North Cowichan ......................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ........................................................................ Hon. John Rustad Nelson-Creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall New Westminster ...............................................................................

Judy Darcy North Coast......................................................................................Jennifer Rice North Island .................................................................................. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ........................................Hon. Naomi Y amamoto North Vancouver–Seymour ..................................................Jane Th ornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...................................................... Dr. Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .......................................................Hon.

Michelle Stilwell Peace River North ................................................................................ Pat Pimm Peace River South ..................................................................Hon. Mike Bernier Penticton............................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam ..........................................................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam ................................................................Linda Reimer Powell River–Sunshine Coast .................................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ....................................................Hon. Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ................................................... Hon. Shirley Bond Richmond Centre ......................................................................Hon. Teresa Wat Richmond East ..........................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands ....................................................

Gary Holman Saanich South ................................................................................ Lana Popham Shuswap ................................................................................................Greg Kyllo Skeena .............................................................................................. Robin Austin Stikine ....................................................................................... Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................... Hon.

Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Fleetwood ........................................................... Hon. Peter Fassbender Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ................................................................................. Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Tynehead ......................................................................Hon.

Amrik Virk Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ....................................................................... Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Fairview ..................................................................George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek ................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview ......................................................Hon.

Suzanne Anton Vancouver-Hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .................................................................Dr. Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .........................................................

Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey .........................................................................David Eby Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................ Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Vancouver–West End ...............................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill .......................................................................Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake.........................................................................Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................. Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..........................................................Jordan Sturdy Westside-Kelowna ................................................................

Hon. Christy Clark Party Standings: BC Liberal 48; New Democratic 35; Independent 2

CONTENTS Wednesday, May 4, 2016 Aft ernoon Sitting Page Routine Business Ministerial Statements .......................................................................................................................................................... 12685 Response to fi res in Fort McMurray Hon. C. Clark J.

Horgan Introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 12685 Tributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 12686 Nelson Keitlah S.

Fraser Introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 12686 Statements (Standing Order 25B) ....................................................................................................................................... 12688 Wildstone Group of Companies D. Ashton Gyeonggi delegation from South Korea B. Ralston ALS awareness G. Hogg Farmers market nutrition and coupon project C. James Social enterprises J. Tegart Y outh volunteer contributions D.

Eby Oral Questions ....................................................................................................................................................................... 12690 Tailings pond breach at Mount Polley mine and mining industry regulation J. Horgan Hon. C. Clark N. Macdonald Hon. B. Bennett M. Mungall G. Heyman S. Simpson Motions Without Notice ....................................................................................................................................................... 12694 Referral of Municipal Replotting Act to Parliamentary Reform Committee Hon.

M. de Jong Referral of issues to Parliamentary Reform Committee Hon. M. de Jong Tabling Documents ............................................................................................................................................................... 12695 Statement of 2014-15 borrowings

Orders of the Day Committee of Supply ............................................................................................................................................................ 12695 Estimates: Ministry of Health (continued) J. Darcy Hon. T. Lake V . Huntington A. Dix M. Karagianis B. Routley Tabling Documents ............................................................................................................................................................... 12720 Opinion of the Confl ict of Interest Commissioner Pursuant to

Section 19 of the Members’ Confl ict of Interest Act: In the Matter of Applications by David Eby, MLA (Vancouver–Point Grey) and Duff Conacher with Respect to Alleged Contraventions of the Members’ Confl ict of Interest Act by the Honourable Christy Clark, MLA (Westside-Kelowna) and Premier of British Columbia Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply ............................................................................................................................................................ 12720 Estimates: Ministry of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training (continued) S. Chandra Herbert Hon. S. Bond S. Simpson M. Elmore

WEDNESDAY , MAY 4, 2016 Th e House met at 1:37 p.m. [Madame Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. Ministerial Statements RESPONSE TO FIRES IN FORT McMURRAY Hon. C. Clark: We are watching in horror today as we see what unfolds in Fort McMurray. An entire city is be- ing forced to evacuate, and it is nothing less than a night- mare come to life — a nightmare that people in Kelowna will remember from 2003. Alberta is our partner. Th ey are our neighbour. Th ey are our best friend in Canada.

For many of us, though, Alberta is also family, with so many connections across the Rockies between our two provinces. In times of need, families stand together, and so al- though our own resources are very stretched — 48 fi res in British Columbia right now; some of them very close to the border between our two provinces — we have been in contact with the Alberta government.

Th ey have asked us, as a priority, to make sure that we control the fi res along the border and, if they do move into Alberta, that we take the unusual step of chasing them across the bor- der and doing that work on Alberta’s behalf so that they can continue to focus their resources. Th is battle is far from over. We all see that in the news coverage that we see on TV every night. But the fact that no lives have been lost is a testament to fi rst responders: paramedics, fi refi ghters, police — all authorities who are so well coordinated and so brave in fi ghting this terrible fi re that people are facing.

We won’t know the full extent of the damage, obvious- ly, until it’s extinguished, but we do already know that thousands of people have lost their homes. I know that hundreds of British Columbians have already reached out. On behalf of all of us here, I’ d like to thank them for bringing their heart to this problem to support our friends and family in Alberta. Th ey are asking how they can help, and I want to encour- age them.

I want all British Columbians to donate to the Red Cross in their ongoing eff orts to support the people in Alberta, in Fort McMurray, who are dealing with this today. [1340] By rallying together, we can keep each other safer, and we can stay calm in the face of this terrible disaster that’s unfolding. Th e people of Fort McMurray have shown in- credible tenacity, courage and resilience in the face of this. We all wish them our very best. To the people of Alberta, British Columbia stands with you as we always have and as we always will. J.

Horgan: On behalf of the offi cial opposition, I want to join with the Premier in off ering every ounce of help we can to the good people of Alberta, particularly in Fort McMurray. It’s just bizarre beyond belief the images that we’re all seeing and experiencing on our televisions and our social media feeds. It’s also extraordinary — the amount of help be- ing off ered right across country, whether it be in the Maritimes, in central Canada or here, out west, to stand with our brothers and sisters, the men and women and the good people of Alberta.

I know that the people of Fort McMurray are among the most resilient in the country. Th ey will regroup, they will rebuild, and they will recover. As that happens, I echo the Premier’s call. If anyone is listening and watching and has something that they can give, please do that. Reach out to the Red Cross, reach out to faith organizations, and do what we can in a mod- est way to assist in this diffi cult time. Th e work will go on much beyond the fi res. But in this time, when we see what could only be described as Hades on earth, it’s crit- ically important for all of us to band together.

I support the Premier and the government in every way possible to bring our resources to bear to address this serious issue just to the east of us. I know that all British Columbians would support that as well. Introductions by Members J. Horgan: I thought Tommy Bahama had walked into the Legislature today. I was looking at…. Who’s the most relaxed person on the fl oor of the House today? Of course, it’s our dear friend Blair Lekstrom, down from the Peace country. I’ve not seen him so relaxed. I’ve not seen him so at ease.

I thought it might have been to do with the motorcycle ride yesterday, but he said he didn’t even come down for that. He just came down for some good old-time fellowship with his colleagues on that side of the House as well as his good friends on this side of the House. I am delighted to be able to say, on behalf of every- one here, would you please make a guy named Blair Lekstrom, the calmest, coolest guy in the place today, very, very welcome. Hon. T. Lake: Some of my colleagues joined me this aft ernoon, at lunchtime at the rotunda, to announce the reopening of the Crossing at Keremeos.

Th e Crossing at Keremeos is a purpose-built, specialized residential treat- ment program for youth and young adults that are experi- encing challenges with substance use. We were very happy to announce the reopening of that facility in Keremeos. It’s overseen by the Provincial Health Services Authority. I would like to welcome a couple of people 12685

British Columbia Debates12686 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 from PHSA: Lynn Pelletier, who is the vice-president of B.C. Mental Health and Substance Use Services, and Connie Coniglio, the executive director of B.C. Mental Health and Substance Use Services. With them are two members of Central City Foundation, which has become a leader for its model of investing in sustainable, social purpose real estate prop- erties: Jennifer Johnstone, the CEO of Central City, and Carla Shore, the communications director.

Accompanying them are two very important people, the co-founders of the Association of Families and Friends of Drug Users, just the sweetest people who have done so much good for young people in our province: Robert and Susan Ruttan. Would the House please make them all very welcome. C. James: I have two guests who are here in the gallery today. Both of these individuals are incredibly committed, through their work and through the amazing organiza- tions they work for, to improving the lives of seniors, of families and of women and children in our community.

Th e fi rst individual is Candace Stretch, who is assist- ant manager of women and family services at the Cridge Centre for the Family. Th e second is Rebecca Mabee, who is the aboriginal early education and nutrition programs coordinator and manager for the Little Paws Preschool at the Victoria Native Friendship Centre. Would the House please make both these guests very welcome. Hon. M. Bernier: Just to follow up on the offi cial op- position leader’s introduction, I also want to acknow- ledge a good friend mine who is here from Peace River South.

Such a good friend, in fact, he stepped aside so I could run to take over his spot as MLA in that area. [1345] I think it’s really important to stress that for 12 years Blair served in this House, serving not only impeccably for Peace River South but also for the province in his time as Minister of Transportation, Minister of Community and Minister of Energy and Mines. He did an excellent job, I’m told by the opposition, on two out of three of those great ministries. It’s a real, great opportunity to welcome my good friend Blair Lekstrom to the House. Again, please make him welcome. Tributes NELSON KEITLAH S.

Fraser: The province has lost a great man. On Saturday last, May 1, Nelson Keitlah passed on. Nelson was a respected Nuu-chah-nulth elder and statesman from Ahousat on Flores Island near Tofi no, and he was a friend. Nelson played a major role in creating the Nuu-chah- nulth governance structure, the NTC or Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council, as it is known today. He was fi rst elected as chief councillor for Ahousat. He was the co-chair of the Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council for many, many years. He was tribal council negotiator for many years on the B.C. treaty process.

I first met Nelson in 1997, and I was honoured to sit with him on the Clayoquot Sound central region board, where he presided as the Nuu-chah-nulth co- chair. Nelson was fl uent in the central Nuu-chah-nulth language, and he was also fl uent in all things Nuu-chah- nulth and history. Y ou could learn so much from just be- ing in the room with him. He was an eloquent and powerful speaker, and he could hold a room with his very presence. Nelson Keitlah was known as the General, and the General will be deeply and dearly missed. Introductions by Members L.

Reimer: It’s my pleasure to welcome to the precinct this aft ernoon the Coastal Sound Music Academy chil- dren’s choir, led by many volunteers and Diana Clark, who is my constituent. Th ey are hosting this week a group from Dieppe, in Moncton, New Brunswick, named the Jeunes chanteurs d’ Acadie. I had the pleasure of listening to all of them sing on the weekend at Old Orchard Hall in Port Moody, and they are so melodic. Would the House please make them very welcome. C. Trevena: In the House today are John Bowman, the president of North Island College, and Randall Heidt, the vice-president of the college.

Th ey’ve been meeting with the Minister of Aboriginal Relations as well as the Ministers of Advanced Education and Jobs and Tourism. Th ey’re talking about the importance, to the college and to the whole of the north Island, of a reconfi guration of the Campbell River campus. Th ey are looking for sup- port, and I hope that the Minister of Advanced Education and the Minister of Jobs will be giving them that support. I will also, hopefully, be having meetings with those min- isters to talk about this. I hope the House will make them both very welcome. Hon. T.

Wat: I t is my pleasure to welcome eight esteemed guests to the House today. They all sit on B.C. ’s Multicultural Advisory Council. Th e Multicultural Advisory Council was created in 1990 with a mandate to advise the minister on multiculturalism issues. Th ere are currently eight board members, including the chair, and they all generously donate their time as volunteers to carry out their roles. Today the council is meeting to discuss their annual action plan, and I’m looking forward to seeing the developments that arise as a result.

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2016 12687 We are so lucky to have the full team in the House with us today. I’ d like to extend a big thank-you to mem- bers Dennis Chan, Garrison Duke, Angela Hollinger, Tenzin Khangsar, Steve Kim, Anar Popatia, Tanveer Siddiqui and David Chuenyan Lai for all your service to British Columbia. Please join me today in giving them a warm welcome. G. Holman: A number of Vancouver Island MLAs had the opportunity to meet with the ALS Society of B.C. ad- vocacy committee earlier this morning.

Th e committee is here to request very modest support for a pilot program to provide respite for caregivers of ALS suff erers and to document the benefi ts of the program. Would the House please welcome Richard Poliquin, chairperson and director of ALS B.C.; directors Dr. Neil Cashman, Ann McArthur and Jim Williams; Wendy Toyer, who is executive director of the ALS Society of B.C.; and, last but not least, Susan Brice, who is execu- tive member of the Victoria

chapter of the ALS Society of B.C. and, of course, a former MLA and currently chair of the greater Victoria transit commission. Would the House please make all of these guests feel very welcome. [1350] R. Sultan: It’s my pleasure to introduce to you, for a second time, some of the same guests from the Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, or ALS, Society, perhaps known to many of us as Lou Gehrig’s disease. As the member has already pointed out, this society is dedicated to providing direct support to ALS patients, their families and caregivers, to ensure the best quality of life possible while living with ALS.

Each year in Canada, in the United States, and in most of the western world, only one or two people out of 100,000 get ALS. Men get it slightly more oft en than women. It can occur at any age, but it’s more common in the middle-aged and the elderly. Our Ministry of Health has supported ALS research by fi nancially supporting agencies such as the Michael Smith Foundation for Health Research. In addition to the names of the guests in the gallery today that have already been mentioned, I would like to single out my constitu- ent Rick Poliquin, who is chair and director of ALSBC.

I would like to acknowledge for the second time, my old buddy, Susan Brice, MLA for what was, in those days, known as Saanich South. We had the pleasure of sitting directly behind Jenny and Joy, the only two NDP members in the House. Some of the barbs aimed in their direction glanced off them, and we had to duck from time to time. Th e good news is that Wendy Toyer, the executive dir- ector of ALSBC, has told us that if you’re going to get this affl iction, British Columbia is the place to get it, because the Ministry of Health’s, G.F .

Strong ALS facility is “the best in the world. ” Th at’s from Wendy, and I believe her. Would the House again make the ALS Society wel- come. J. Shin: Last year I visited South Korea twice, in the spring and in the fall, and had the pleasure of visiting the federal government to meet with the MPs; the cap- ital city, Seoul; as well as Burnaby’s sister city, Hwaseong, to connect with the council; and, of course our sister province, Gyeonggi, where my colleagues, members for Surrey-Whalley and Surrey–Green Timbers, and I were received so warmly.

We extended our invitation to them to reciprocate and to continue our dialogue on trade, educational and cultural relationships between South Korea and British Columbia. I’m thrilled that our sister province of Gyeonggi has accepted. Th ey are here, all 13 MLAs, led by the Minister of Urban Development and Environment, with their par- liamentary secretaries and senior staff in the entourage of 26 guests today.

Would the House please make our special guests from across the Pacifi c, the MLAs Oh Se Y oung-nim, Y om Jong Hyun-nim, Kim Kyu Chang-nim, Park Dong Hyeon-nim, Y ang Keun Suh-nim, Im Chae Ho-nim, Jung Y oon Kyung-nim, Cho Kwang Myung- nim, Kim Chul In-nim, Lee Jung Hoon-nim, Jung Jin Sun-nim, Cho Jae Wook-nim, Chun Dong Hyun-nim, Cho Min Ho-nim and Shin Shung Hai-nim, feel very, very welcome. J. Martin: We have a delegation joining us this aft er- noon from the B.C. and Yukon Catholic Women’s League.

Please welcome legislation chairperson Gisela Montague, from Chilliwack; president-elect Evelyn Rigby, from Powell River; education and health chair- person Agnes Geiger, from Nanaimo; and resolutions chairperson Dianne Barker, from Kamloops. Please make them welcome. L. Reimer: I would like to welcome, as well, my friend Steve Kim, who is here today. Steve has been a very active member of the C3 Canada-Korea society and is with Boilingpoint communications. I’ve had the great pleas- ure to run with him, back in 2013. Would the House please make him welcome. S.

Chandra Herbert: Well, members of this House will know I’ve spoken of the Dragons before and my love for King George high school in the West End. I’m very excited today to have about 42 students from King George, in grade 11 and grade 10, in the House to- day. Th ey’re incredible people. [1355] If you see them around the hall, tell them so. Th ey will give you a few opinions, I think, about education and their crowded school, but they’re great students. I hope you’ll listen to them. I’ d also like to welcome them.

British Columbia Debates12688 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 Along with them are Sherry Preston, Patrick Wilband, Malini Rajkumar, Cliff Butt, Lee Rachar, Steve Scrimshaw and, of course, the Dragons. So please give it up for the King George Dragons. Welcome to the people’s House. Statements (Standing Order 25B) WILDSTONE GROUP OF COMPANIES D. Ashton: I’ d like to take a moment to speak about one of the terrifi c family-run businesses based in Penticton.

As general contractors, builders, engineers and construc- tion managers, the Wildstone Group of Companies pro- vides services throughout western and northern Canada, including some of the most remote and unforgiving places on this continent. Th e goal of the company and its 100-plus employees is to provide a better building experience than any other com- pany in the building industry. In addition to encouraging each other to be better at their jobs, their core values also include the commitment to be strong contributors to the community and a demand for a healthy family-worklife balance.

Wildstone Group of Companies was founded in Penticton in 1995 by professional engineer Jim Morrison and now has branches in Whitehorse and in Y ellowknife. Some of the major projects the company has under- taken include a $42 million gas pipeline in Canada’s far north and a nearly $20 million northern Arctic RCMP detachment built on thermal piles. Th is is the fi rst instal- lation of its kind in Canada. As a testament to Wildstone’s overall excellence, it was recently named one of Canada’s 50 best-managed com- panies by Deloitte. As we know, this is one of Canada’s most prestigious business awards.

Th is is the second year in a row that Wildstone has been selected as B.C. ’s fi nalist in the Deloitte Canada’s best-managed program. Wildstone and its employees are also rightfully proud of their safety record, which now stretches fi ve years without a lost-time incident — a record that is approach- ing one million hours on the job, much of it in the high Arctic. I’ d ask each and every one: let’s knock on wood for that company.

As a longtime and lifetime resident of Penticton and area, I’m extremely proud of this home- grown company’s achievements, and I’m very proud to be able to share their success with this House. GYEONGGI DELEGATION FROM SOUTH KOREA B. Ralston: Today in the House we welcome an im- portant delegation of elected legislators and their sup- porting staff from the Gyeonggi Provincial Assembly of the Republic of Korea. Th e word gyeonggi means “the area surrounding the capital, ” and indeed, the province wraps around the na- tional capital of Seoul. Th e provincial capital of Gyeonggi is Suwon.

Seoul, Korea’s largest city and national capital, is located at the heart of the province but is administered separately as a provincial special city. Gyeonggi is Korea’s most populous province, with 12 million people, and is home to globally recognized companies such as Samsung, Hyundai, Kia and LG. British Columbia and Gyeonggi established a sis- ter province relationship in May 2008.

The member for Surrey–Green Timbers, the member for Burnaby- Lougheed and myself visited as guests of the provin- cial assembly in November 2015, and we are pleased that such a large delegation has chosen to visit us here in our provincial capital of Victoria. We look for- ward to pursuing talks on a wide variety of topics and strengthening the bonds of friendship between the Gyeonggi Provincial Assembly and the British Columbia Legislative Assembly.

The implementation of the Canada-Korea Trade Agreement, supported by both sides of the House, has opened new opportunities for exports to Korea, particu- larly from British Columbia. Korea has a dynamic cul- tural and business environment. Th ere are opportunities for Canadian business in such areas as clean tech ser- vices, education and high-tech specialties such as gaming. We will strengthen the bonds of friendship between the Gyeonggi Provincial Assembly and the British Columbia Legislative Assembly. To our many guests from Korea, on behalf of all mem- bers here, welcome. ALS AW ARENESS G.

Hogg: Th ere’s an old adage that, I think, is attrib- uted to that profession that we love to hate — lawyers. It says that you should tell people what you’re going to say; you should then say it and then repeat it so that people will know what you’ve said. With the help of two of my colleagues, we’ve already praised the ALS Society of B.C. So let me tell you what they told you, in diff erent words. Each day an average of 2.5 Canadians die of ALS.

It af- fects one in 350 people, about one-third as many as are aff ected by diabetes. [1400] ALS is a progressive, neurodegenerative disease that relatively quickly causes muscle weakness, paralysis and, ultimately, respiratory failure. It can aff ect anyone at any time, and it is not yet treatable. Th e amazing freezing success of the ice bucket challenge raised a frigid aware- ness of the disease and reinforced our resolve to perse- vere and to fi nd a cure.

Th e ALS Society of B.C. was founded 35 years ago, and it is dedicated to providing the best possible quality of life support to ALS patients, their families and caregivers. With over 445 trained volunteers, they support over 400 British Columbians with ALS.

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2016 12689 We are blessed in British Columbia to have the world’s best ALS specialists caring for our patients at the ALS Centre at the G.F . Strong Rehabilitation hospital. B.C. ’s continued partnership with the centre is a crucial com- ponent in ensuring that we can provide the best possible quality of care and service to our ALS patients. June is ALS Awareness Month in B.C. Y our support of the many events occurring in communities across this province is both needed and appreciated. Th ank you to the B.C. ALS Society. FARMERS MARKET NUTRITION AND COUPON PROJECT C.

James: Th e B.C. farmers market nutrition and cou- pon program has been a great success in my community. Th e program, built with community partners, makes lo- cal fresh food available to low-income expectant moms, families and seniors. Funding is provided through HealthyFamilies B.C., in partnership with the B.C. Association of Farmers Markets. It’s available in 48 communities across B.C. Last year more than 3,000 households and over 9,000 British Columbians used this service.

In Victoria, the Moss Street Market and the Oaklands Sunset Market both participated, in partnership with the Victoria Native Friendship Centre and the Cridge Centre for the Family. Th is year the James Bay Market and the James Bay Community Project have been added to the program. Program participants receive $15 in coupons per week for 16 weeks, redeemable from June to October, to pur- chase fruit, vegetables, meat, fi sh, cheese, nuts and fresh herbs at local farmers markets. Th e community partners oft en participate by off ering skill-building activities such as cooking, meal planning and gardening classes.

Th e participants have the oppor- tunity to connect and be a part of their community at the farmers markets. Th is program also supports local farm- ers and keeps money in the local economy. Th is year the program is at capacity and was not able to fund all of the participants requested. Th ere are 137 fam- ilies funded this year in greater Victoria, but 82 requests had to be turned down. Th e B.C. farmers market nutrition and coupon pro- gram has been well received, and other community partners and other markets want to off er it as well. So I add my voice in the hope that funding for expansion will occur.

Th anks to those who ’ve worked so hard to get this program up and running and make it such a success. It’s improving nutrition for families in my community and improving lives. SOCIAL ENTERPRISES J. Tegart: I rise in the House today to recognize May as Social Enterprise Month. Social enterprises across B.C. are making a diff erence in people’s lives, in our communities and in our neigh- bourhoods. Th ey use business strategies to serve the com- mon good, fi nding innovative ways to help societies most pressing social, cultural and environmental problems.

Th ey range from thrift stores and farmers markets to businesses that provide work experience, aff ordable housing and job opportunities for people with disabilities or other barriers to employment. In 2012, a survey from the Canadian social enterprise sector survey project stated that B.C. ’s social enterprises provided services to nearly 700,000 people and paid $37 million in wages. Th ey are an important part of B.C. ’s economy, and the sector continues to grow. Th is is the third Social Enterprise Month in British Columbia.

Ten years ago a social enterprise was a rela- tively new concept, but now a business focused on achieving social or environmental goals is mainstream. Our government is committed to strengthening B.C. ’s social innovation sector. In 2011, we started a conversa- tion about social innovation. Since then, we’ve formed partnerships, supported the sector and enacted legisla- tion. We’ve worked to create an environment where social entrepreneurs are welcome and can thrive. [1405] We know that no single organization, government or business can solve society’s most diffi cult challenges on its own.

Th is month I encourage everyone to celebrate and to raise the profi le of this important sector and the work they do to strengthen our communities. I encour- age you to visit and support social enterprises in your community and go to hubcapbc.ca to learn more about B.C. ’s social enterprise system. YOUTH VOLUNTEER CONTRIBUTIONS D. Eby: One of our community newspapers, the Campus Resident , recently featured five outstanding young people for their exceptional volunteer work in our community. I’ d like to share their stories with the House today.

High school student Eric Lin spent his time as a vol- unteer coach of the Math Challengers club at a local ele- mentary school, Norma Rose Point. Andrew maintains the club’s blog. He coaches 40 grade 5 to 8 students once a week. Th is year he gave an extra hour and a half of time for the 20 competitors for SFU’s provincial math contest. Th eir team came in fi rst place in the province. Congratulations to Eric and the hard-working team at Norma Rose Point. Alice Hong is a core member of — I don’t think I’m wrong to say — the famous CRAZI Y outh Club Dance

British Columbia Debates12690 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 Crew, which she helped found in 2012. Th e Crazy Crew have been the stars of several community events. Alice and her friends always keep the crowd entertained with their amazing choreography. Alice also volunteers with the social fi tness program, and she hasn’t missed a sin- gle session. David He is the winner of the 2016 citizenship award at UHill Secondary, in part for his role in leading the fundraising for the Downtown Eastside Women’s Centre.

With 140 hours of volunteering to date, David’s eff orts have improved the Community Connection Night, the Let’s Cook Club, the UNA Annual Barn Raising, our lunar new year celebrations and the Westbrook outdoor movie. Now, I met volunteer Jessie Ou at the Green Depot, where she volunteers regularly to educate community members about diverting e-waste out of the garbage. Despite wind, rain and cold at our annual Wesbrook Festival, Jessie and her colleagues bravely staffed the weigh station, making sure that we had a minimal en- vironmental impact.

Eric Luo is a new arrival to Canada, but that hasn’t slowed him down from volunteering for 46 hours for every major University Neighbourhoods Association community event since he arrived. Th is spring he’ll be helping run the fl oor hockey program at our beautiful new community centre. I ask all members of this House to recognize the amaz- ing and outstanding volunteer work of these young people in my community. Oral Questions TAILINGS POND BREACH AT MOUNT POLLEY MINE AND MINING INDUSTRY REGULATION J.

Horgan: Y esterday the Auditor General tabled what could only be described as a scathing report on the en- forcement and compliance capacity of the provincial gov- ernment. I want to read several excerpts over the next number of minutes, and I’ll start with this one with re- spect to regulation and oversight.

The Auditor General said the following: “We have found over a decade of neglect in compliance and en- forcement program activities within the Ministry of Energy and Mines and signifi cant defi ciencies within the Ministry of Environment. ” So “a decade of neglect” is how it was characterized by the independent Auditor General. In that report, we didn’t just hear about environmental degradation. We heard about taxpayer liability and lost jobs as a result of that neglect.

My question to the Premier is: why did it take a catastrophic disaster at Mount Polley for her government to wake up to their responsibilities to adequately and appropriately regulate the mining sector in British Columbia? Hon. C. Clark: The mining industry in British Columbia is vitally important to many, many commun- ities and thousands of people whose families depend on it for an income.

We’ve worked hard to make sure that we support the industry and those workers in continu- ing to be able to generate the wealth that our province depends on but, also, the income that they need to be able to make sure that their lives are good ones and that they’re raising their children in the kinds of homes that they’ d like to raise them in. British Columbia has enjoyed, over the last many years, a reputation around the world as one of the best places — the most environmentally sound, the most safe — in the world in which to do mining. [1410] When the Mount Polley incident happened, we were all shocked.

It was a real wake-up call for everyone. An incident that’s almost unique over the last 75 years. A reminder, for a mine that had been permitted long ago, that we do need to make sure that we always, continually, improve. We are acknowledged to be amongst the best in the world, but we can certainly do better. Th e reports from the independent panel of engineers and geologists and from the auditors are both extremely helpful in helping us make sure that we make the chan- ges that we need to.

Many of those changes are under- way because we intend to make sure that we stay not just amongst the best in the world but that we will be acknow- ledged as the best in the world for mining. Madame Speaker: Recognizing the Leader of the Offi - cial Opposition on a supplemental. J. Horgan: It always astounds me when government members stand up and say: “I’m shocked. I had no idea. ” Th e government has been in power for 15 years. “ A dec- ade of neglect” was entirely and totally on their watch.

Th e Auditor General went on to say, with respect to the reputation that the Premier just referenced: “We found that almost every one of our expectations for a robust compliance and enforcement program” within the Ministry of Energy and Mines and the Ministry of Environment was not met. Every one not met.

She went further to say the Ministry of Energy and Mines “has the ability to compel a mining company to take corrective action when necessary. ” However, at Mount Polley, the ministry “did not use any of these en- forcement mechanisms to compel the mine operator to build or operate the dam as designed or intended. ” What the conclusion was is that the government was asleep at the switch. Professional reliance was what they depended on, not people on the ground protecting the public interest, people on the ground protecting the jobs of people in the mining sector.

My question to the Premier is: what possible reason does the Premier have for not using the tools at the dis-

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2016 12691 posal of the ministry to protect the environment, to pro- tect workers and to protect the resources that belong to all British Columbians? Hon. C. Clark: One of the most important things that we have to do at this juncture, in our province, in order to protect mining jobs and mines in British Columbia is en- sure that we protect the reputation that British Columbia has established as one of the best, safest, most environ- mentally sound mining industries in the world.

Th at does mean that we need to respond to the recom- mendations both of the independent panel and of the auditors, and we are working to do that. Amongst some of those things is setting up a new compliance and en- forcement board, working to boost penalties for non- compliance, new guidelines for engineers and geoscientists. Th is was a mine that was permitted long ago. Th e in- dependent panel said that the cause of this terrible mess at Mount Polley was the fact that not enough holes had been drilled to determine the nature of the subsurface on which the tailings pond stood.

Th ey met the standards of the time, in the 1990s. But as the Auditor General reports today, they don’t meet the standards of today. We need to make sure that we continue to change the way the…. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Please continue. Hon. C. Clark: Th ank you, Madame Speaker. W e need to make sure that we continue to change the way that we set those standards and meet those standards. Th e Ministry of Mines is doing that now in response to the reports that we’ve seen. Th at work will continue. We are amongst the best at mining anywhere in the world. We want to protect that reputation.

We want to enhance it. Making sure that we maintain that public trust and that public confi dence is absolutely crucial to making sure that we protect those jobs for those families that depend on it. Madame Speaker: Th e Leader of the Offi cial Oppo- sition on a supplemental. J. Horgan: If I’m not mistaken, I was at Mount Polley two summers ago. Th e Premier joined me there. Th e minister joined me there. I think the reputation of the mining industry kind of left the barn on that day.

When you have 25 million metric tonnes of junk coming down from a tailings pond and going into a pristine water body, that’s a problem. It’s not an unfortunate circumstance. It’s a catastrophic event. [1415] Th e Auditor General reviewed that event, reviewed our preparedness for this very activity. The Premier talks about when the permit was issued. It was amended 12 times, not by people on this side of the House but by people on that side of the House. Th e permit to oper- ate was amended a dozen times over a decade, and the Premier wants to think that it was someone else’s prob- lem a long, long time ago.

Unfortunately, the people of British Columbia got more going on than that. Th ey know that people sitting in government are the ones that are supposed to be ac- countable, not the opposition. Th e Auditor General went on to say, with respect to taxpayers and the consequences for all of us inside the mining industry and outside of the mining industry: Th e Ministry of Energy and Mines “is not holding an ad- equate amount of security to cover the estimated environ- mental liabilities at major mines. ” Not enough liability.

In other words, the Y ellow Giant mine — we made reference to it earlier in the week — a problem for all taxpayers. Mount Polley — potentially a problem for all taxpayers. Th e Premier talked about trust. Th is is a big challenge for her, and I hope she’s got a good answer. How can the people of British Columbia trust our enforcement and compliance process when the owners of Mount Polley contributed $800,000 to the governing party over the past ten years?

During that decade of neglect, the gov- ernment’s party received $800,000 from the mining company that sent 25 million metric tonnes from their tailings pond into pristine water. How should we have trust in that? Hon. C. Clark: Th e mining industry also created jobs for 30,000 citizens directly in British Columbia. Th e aver- age salary for those jobs was $120,000. Five new mines creating over 1,300 jobs since 2011. We are continuing to work to make sure that our mining industry not only grows but that it grows in a way that enhances our repu- tation as amongst the best in the world at mining and mine safety.

Th at’s why we’re responding to both reports fully, ac- cepting all of the recommendations from the Auditor General’s report, save one, where we are accepting it, trying to make sure we understand it better and seeing whether or not it can be fully implemented. We want to make sure that we remain number one in the world, that we protect our reputation as a great place to do mining. We know that that’s vitally important, be- cause on this side of the House we know that mining jobs matter to a lot of people. Th ey matter to a lot of families. Th ey matter to a lot of communities… Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members. Hon. C. Clark: …that they keep alive. One of the many things that we need to do to preserve those jobs, to preserve those communities, is make sure that we

British Columbia Debates12692 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 preserve, protect and enhance our reputation for mine safety and environmental sustainability across the prov- ince. In accepting these recommendations, we will con- tinue to do that. N.

Macdonald: Th e Auditor General says, with respect to the Mount Polley disaster: “We focused on why the dam failed. ” Th en she went on that they found the min- istry did not ensure that the tailings dam was built prop- erly or operated according to the approved design. “Nor did it ensure that the mining company rectifi ed design and operational defi ciencies. ” In short, the Auditor General says that the Mount Polley tailings storage facility failed because the minister failed to do his job. Th e Auditor General says that repeat- edly throughout the report.

Th e minister promised to resign if he or his ministry were found at fault. Th at has happened. When is he go- ing to resign? Interjections. Madame Speaker: Members. [1420] Hon. B. Bennett: Apparently, I have bad news for the opposition. I have no intention of resigning. But I would like to tell the House and the public what I plan to do. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Members. Th e Chair would like to hear the answer. Hon. B. Bennett: Th ey’re going to have to contain their disappointment, hon. Speaker.

What I want to do on behalf of this government is I want to take the seven recommendations that were made by the independent expert engineering panel. Th at report came out in January 30 of 2015. I want to take the 19 recommen- dations that came from the chief inspector of mine’s report. Th at report took 18 months to do. It was done by several engineers within the ministry. Th ere are 19 recommenda- tions from that report and 17 recommendations, in total, from the performance audit that was done and released yesterday by the Auditor General.

As the Premier just mentioned a second ago, that totals 43 recommendations. Now, government is going to implement — and in fact is already in the process of implementing — all of those recommendations, even the 43rd recommendation.

We have accepted every single recommendation of the two engineering investigations as to what caused the acci- dent and, also, the recommendations that come from the Auditor General’s performance audit that came out yesterday, with that one exception, which I would im- agine I will get an opportunity to explain, perhaps in a follow-up question, if the opposition decides they want to ask more questions. Madame Speaker: Columbia River–Revelstoke on a supplemental. N. Macdonald: Well, the question I asked, the min- ister ignored completely.

He made a promise that if the fi ndings such as we had with this report came forward, he would resign. Th at is what he promised. I don’t mind…. I’m not surprised that he actually avoided the defence he used yesterday, because it’s ri- diculous, what he said yesterday. He said that he only promised to resign if the panel that he handpicked and appointed said he was responsible for Mount Polley. Well, the Auditor General, the expert this Legislature appointed, says Mount Polley is his fault. Th e Auditor General’s report is an indictment of this minister’s tenure.

Th e question I have for the minister is: aft er reading the Auditor General’s report, how can the minister do any- thing other than resign? Where’s the integrity? Hon. B. Bennett: Th e member for Columbia River– Revelstoke would love to see me resign, I know. I’m sorry on a personal level that he feels that way, but I’m not go- ing to resign. He calls into question the independent expert panel of engineers that was appointed within two weeks follow- ing the Mount Polley disaster. We appointed that panel. He referred to them as “handpicked. ” Let’s just take a mo- ment and consider who these three people were.

Steven Vick is from the United States of America. He is the gentleman who is responsible for investigating the failure of the levees in New Orleans aft er the hurricane. Th e second person who was on the panel is a PhD geo- technical engineer who teaches at UBC and who cur- rently is in Mexico City, as I speak, giving a lecture. What on? On tailings dams. Th e third person, who chaired the panel, teaches or used to teach at the University of Alberta.

He also is a PhD geotechnical engineer. [1425] Th ose three geotechnical experts came to the conclu- sion that the accident at Mount Polley was caused by something called a glaciolacustrine layer. Th at’s what they said. Th ey also said that the men and women who work in the Ministry of Energy and Mines are actually really good at their job. Th at’s what these three engineering experts said. Th ey said, in fact, that the people who work within the Ministry of Energy and Mines are actually some of the best people they’ve ever encountered anywhere in their travels. M.

Mungall: Well, the minister knows, or at least he ought to know, that the panel looked at what happened with Mount Polley, but the Auditor General was looking

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2016 12693 at why it happened. According to her, the ministry did not conduct geotechnical inspections for several years, even though the ministry policy requires annual inspections. According to the Auditor General, these inspections would have identifi ed that the operator was not building or oper- ating the tailings dam according to the permitted design. Th e mine operators were not following the ministry’s rules. In the case of Mount Polley, we would have known that if the minister hadn’t given a pass on the annual in- spections for that mine.

It’s clear that the minister neglected his responsibilities. Why did he do that? Hon. B. Bennett: It’s great to see another MLA from the Kootenays up on her feet talking about mining. I’ve never heard her, ever, in her time here ever mention min- ing before. I appreciate the fact that she actually knows that it exists as an industry. Th e member is asking about inspections that may or may not have taken place at Mount Polley over the last 15 years.

What I can say is that there was a period of time, between — I hope I get my dates right — I think 2009 and 2011, where there were not the number of geotech- nical engineering inspectors within the ministry that there ought to have been. Th at is something that we have acknowledged. Th at is something that I will acknowledge right here today. It’s absolutely true, and we can’t let it happen again. Government takes responsibility for not letting that hap- pen again. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Members. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Members, this House will come to order. Hon. B.

Bennett: Here’s what those three engineers said about inspections. Th ey said that no number of in- spections would have found that hidden, unstable layer of clay under the perimeter embankment of the tailings storage facility. Th at’s what they said. It wouldn’t have mattered if you had 1,000 inspectors wandering all over that tailings storage facility. Th ey would not have found what caused the accident at Mount Polley. Th at’s what the three experts said. It is clear that the members in the op- position don’t like that, but that’s what they said.

Madame Speaker: Th e member for Nelson-Creston on a supplemental. M. Mungall: First, let me invite the minister to any of the annual dinners or holiday parties that the Kootenay Chamber of Mines hosts. I’ d be happy to see him there. In fact, maybe he’ d actually buy something from one of the auctions. Th e Auditor General, who’s an independent offi cer of this Legislature, said: “It is the Ministry of Energy and Mines’ responsibility for regulating all mining-related activity in B.C., including design, construction, oper- ation, closure and reclamation.

Th e chief inspector is given signifi cant power and discretion during all phases. Th ese powers include ensuring the safety and stability of tailings storage facilities. ” [1430] It is the minister’s responsibility to ensure the safety of tailings storage facilities. Th e minister neglected to do that at Mount Polley, and I have to ask a question that I know is on British Columbians’ minds across this prov- ince. Is that because the mine’s owners are big-money donors to his political party? Hon. B.

Bennett: I couldn’t help but notice that Teck Resources, one of the biggest mining companies in the world, gave the NDP $59,400. I’m not…. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Members. Members, we will wait. Hon. B. Bennett: Th e ceremonial leader of the NDP could buy a lot of suits with $59,000. Y ou know, the best thing that we can do…. And I know that question period is all about theatre and politics and partisan politics. I’m not immune to participating in that. Everyone knows that. However, Mount Polley was a ter- rible disaster. Th ere is no question about it.

I think both sides of the House agree that it was a terrible disaster. I think what the people of the province really ex- pect from us…. I know they expect that from govern- ment; they may not expect that from the opposition. I think the opposition and government both have an obligation to learn what we can from what happened at Mount Polley. It was an unprecedented event. It has not happened before in this province. Th ere are 43 recommendations from the engineering panels that looked into the acci- dent, that did the investigation, and also from the Auditor General’s report.

Government is working on all of them. G. Heyman: Th e minister may not be inclined to listen to the advice of independent offi cers of the Legislature, but the Auditor General went on to say: “Th e Ministry of Energy and Mines was unable to demonstrate how the mine performed against its permit requirements for the last two decades. In particular, the panel concluded that had the downstream slope on the perimeter embankment been fl attened in recent years, as proposed in the original design, failure would have been avoided. ”

British Columbia Debates12694 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 “Failure would have been avoided. ” Does the minister agree with the Auditor General that had he decided to force Imperial Metals to follow their original design, the failure at Mount Polley would have been avoided? Hon. B. Bennett: I’ d like to go back to one of the engineering experts. His name is Harvey McLeod. He doesn’t work for government. He’s actually chairing our code review tailings storage facility subcommittee. He’s also vice-president of Klohn Crippen Berger engineer- ing.

Here’s what he has to say about the concept of “ori- ginal design. ” He said: “Th is is the nature of mining. Th e tailings dam design at Mount Polley, just as at mines around the world, is not static. It evolves throughout the life of operations. That is appropriate engineering practice. Operating mines evolve their tailings dam designs over time to re- fl ect actual operating conditions. ” With the greatest respect to the staff in the Offi ce of the Auditor General, I think that what we got yesterday was a very good performance audit with 17 good recom- mendations.

Th at’s what I think. [1435] I also think that if you want to understand what hap- pened at Mount Polley, you should go to the two reports that were done by engineers. Th at will tell you. If you really want to know what happened, go and listen to the engineering advice that was provided by those experts. S. Simpson: What’s clear from the Auditor General’s report is that the minister and the Premier made a choice. Th ey chose to listen to major donors who fund the B.C. Liberal Party instead of workers who raised con- cerns about bad mining practices. Th e Auditor General called this a decade of neglect.

It wasn’t a mistake; it was a choice. Th e result is that mineworkers lost their jobs. Mining communities are left with considerable environ- mental damage. Listening to major donors was the wrong choice for this minister. Will he make the right choice and resign today? Hon. B. Bennett: Forty-three recommendations. We’re going to implement all of them, possibly not all of one — not sure yet. Th at one recommendation deals with separating permitting from compliance and enforcement.

What we have said — I said it yesterday, but to get it on the record here today — is that we will do a jurisdic- tional scan, not just across Canada but around the world, to fi nd other places where they have separated permitting from compliance and enforcement. Once we fi nd those other models that are out there, according to the Auditor General, we will have a good look at them, and we will make a determination then as to whether we’re going to implement that particular recommendation fully. Th e last thing I want to say…. It’s really important to- day that I say this.

Th e people who work in the Ministry of Energy and Mines and the Ministry of Environment are people who are absolutely committed to doing every- thing they possibly can to protect the natural environ- ment. We all know that. S. Simpson: What we know today is that the workers at Mount Polley and the residents at Likely look at the $800,000 the mine owner gave to the B.C. Liberal Party and wonder what impact that money had. Th ey look at the million-dollar dinner the mine owners held for the B.C. Liberal Party in Calgary and wonder: what impact did that money have?

Th ey look at the Auditor General’s report, and they see that the Premier and the minister chose not to enforce the law. It’s time for the minister to demonstrate some integrity. Last chance — resign now, Minister. Hon. B. Bennett: Y ou know, when you look at the mining industry and you look at what the regulator is responsible for, governments do have a choice.

We have a choice between trying to reduce the risk as much as we possibly can to make sure that workers are safe — and certainly B.C. mining workers are safe, the safest heavy industry in the world — and also to make sure that the environment is not jeopardized by the activities of min- ing…. It is not possible to remove all of the risk out of the mining industry or, frankly, any other activity on the land base, except by doing one thing. Th at is to simply elimin- ate the industry, get rid of it, which is what the other side did in the 1990s. Th at’s what they did.

For every mine that opened in the 1990s, two closed. Hon. Speaker, I look forward to tomorrow. [End of question period.] Madame Speaker: Hon. Members, I will take this op- portunity to caution all members. It is never appropriate — never appropriate — to impugn the integrity of any hon. member in this House. [1440] Motions Without Notice REFERRAL OF MUNICIPAL REPLOTTING ACT TO PARLIAMENTARY REFORM COMMITTEE Hon. M. de Jong: A couple of things for members, and I think the hon.

Opposition House Leader and the independent members have received the fi rst motion that I seek leave to move, relating to the revision of the Municipal Replotting Act and the submission of that to the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. I seek leave to move that motion.

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2016 12695 [The revision of the Municipal Replotting Act [RSBC 1996]

Chapter 323 be presented to the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills for examination and recommendation pursuant to the Statute Revision Act [RSBC 1996]

Chapter 440. In addition to the powers previously conferred upon the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills by the Legislative Assembly, the Committee is empowered:

a) to appoint of their number, one or more subcommittees and to refer to such subcommittees any of the matters re- ferred to the Committee;

b) to sit during a period in which the House is adjourned, during the recess aft er prorogation until the next following Session and during any sitting of the House;

c) to adjourn from place to place as may be convenient; and

d) to retain such personnel as required to assist the Committee; and shall report to the House as soon as possible, or following any adjournment, or at the next following Session, as the case may be; to deposit the original of its reports with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly during a period of adjournment and upon resumption of the sittings of the House, the Chair shall present all reports to the Legislative Assembly.] Leave granted. Motion approved. REFERRAL OF ISSUES TO PARLIAMENTARY REFORM COMMITTEE Hon.

M. de Jong: Secondly, I seek leave to move a second motion that also involves the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. Again, I think this has been provided — I’m certain this has been provided — to the Opposition House Leader and the independent mem- bers.

I will read the referral, though, because I think it’s a signifi cant one for members to hear. [The Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills be appointed to examine and make recommendations by October 31, 2016 with respect to the practice and procedure relating to: 1. the referral and consideration of Estimates by Committee of Supply; and 2. the establishment of Select Standing Committees for the life of a Parliament.] In seeking leave, I am obliged to the member for Delta South and the Opposition House Leader for their assist- ance with respect to the motion itself.

Leave granted. Motion approved. Tabling Documents Hon. M. de Jong: Finally, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, I would like to present the reports for the fi scal year ended March 31, 2015. Th e reports cover all amounts borrowed by the government and, secondly, all amounts loaned to government bodies and provide an overview of the province’s borrowing activities for fi scal year 2014-15. Orders of the Day Hon.

M. de Jong: In Committee A, Committee of Supply, the ongoing estimates of the Ministry of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training, and in this chamber, the ongoing estimates of the Ministry of Health. [1445] Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF HEALTH (continued) Th e House in Committee of Supply (Section B); R. Chouhan in the chair. Th e committee met at 2:48 p.m. On Vote 29: ministry operations, $17,820,706,000 (continued). J. Darcy: I’ d like to begin by canvassing some issues related to health human resources, in particular as they relate to seniors care.

We have, on many occasions and over several years, had discussions with the ministry about health human resource strategies, shortages of various occupations. Certainly, one of the things that has been impressed on the ministry on various occasions is the importance of looking at — very broadly — what shortages we have in health care, not in restricting it to a few specifi c occupations. Certainly, organizations representing care aides have raised the issue over the years — about shortages of care aides in various areas of the province and the need to address that. Now, the B.C.

Care Providers recently has already spoken out on this issue, very strongly — that the abil- ity to attract qualifi ed care aides to B.C. has increasingly become a challenge, is particularly acute for residential care operators in the Interior and on Vancouver Island.

For home support employers, this is a provincewide issue with chronic shortages in the north. [1450] They have stated that we are simply not training enough care aides to deal with what we’ve all known for some time, an aging population, and that the lack of care aides in the Interior and Vancouver Island and home sup- port workers in Metro Vancouver is just an early warn- ing signal of what lies ahead. Our workforce is also aging, Daniel Fontaine says, and it’s critical to ensure that we re- cruit and train enough staff to ensure the adequate levels of seniors care that are needed across the province.

British Columbia Debates12696 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 My question is: what is the minister doing to ad- dress the shortage of care aides — both those who work in residential care as well as those who work in home support? Hon. T. Lake: Th e training of health care aides is car- ried out both in the public system and through other providers as well. Currently there are 41 education pro- viders that off er the health care assistant program; 16 of these are public colleges. Th ere are two school district programs and 23 private colleges. Quite a number of pro- grams around the province.

Where we do see a shortage, we try to bump up the number of seats in that area. Since 2008, we’ve been pro- viding one-time funding for short-term health education programs to address the immediate needs where we see the need in a community. For instance, in 2013-14, part of that funding was awarded to Camosun College, here on the Island. In 2014-15, there was $356,000 awarded to the great uni- versity in Kamloops, Th ompson Rivers University — to their health care aide program. I was there for that an- nouncement and saw the great work they’re doing.

In 2015-16, $153,000 was awarded to the College of New Caledonia for 18 additional health care aides in the Quesnel campus. What we do is we have a base of 41 providers. Where we see there is a shortage in any particular part of the province, we inject money to boost the programming in that area to meet that demand. J. Darcy: I’ d like to turn to the issue that relates to staffi ng, human resources, and to continuity of care for seniors. Th is is an issue that we have also discussed ex- tensively, both in estimates as well as in question period.

I want to go back to the Ombudsperson’s report on seniors care of several years ago, when she spoke of the signifi cant mass replacements of staff . [1455] “Mass replacement of staff can occur when facility operators switch from contracting with one private service provider to an- other. Such turnovers can disrupt the lives of seniors in residen- tial care, especially those…whose care needs are complex. Over time, long-term staff acquire specialized knowledge of these needs, so the simultaneous replacement of many employees can make it diffi cult for the seniors because continuity of care is dis- rupted.

Th is is particularly the case for residents with dementia. ” She also goes on to talk about how incredibly stressful this is for families. Th is phenomenon, which is…. We’re not revisiting legislation now, but we know it is a direct result of Bill 29, going back 13 years. We have more instances. Th ere are instances of this that occur every year — mass displace- ments of staff , most recently Wexford Creek in Nanaimo where workers will lose their jobs and where care for sen- iors will be disrupted. Th e staff who care for their most intimate care needs will be torn away from them.

Last year in this place we discussed Inglewood, where the contract has been fl ipped fi ve times, and Laurel Place. We could go back every year with numerous instances. My fi rst question on this is whether the Ministry of Health or health authorities are tracing the number of times that services have been contracted out or fl ipped in residential care. Hon. T. Lake: Th e member and I share a concern. I know other members of her team have expressed a con- cern, and I know that members on our side have ex- pressed concern.

When caregivers are subjected to a change in a con- tract or for a long-term residential care facility…. People do get very attached, obviously, to the people who care for them every day. It’s important to their well-being that there is continuity of care, that there is familiarity, that there is trust. When we do see a change, it can be impact- ful on residents and their family. [R.

Lee in the chair.] I want to, again, just acknowledge what the member said — that through 2010, 2012 and 2014 collective bar- gaining agreements and the Bill 29 settlements, both health employers and unions agreed through negotia- tions to allow contracting out to continue. I want to stress that this was part of a discussion with the unions, and it was agreed that the ability to contract out would be preserved. Th e member said that it’s happening more and more every year. I’m not sure that’s the case. We are in discus- sion with the seniors advocate, asking her to take a look at this particular issue.

What we have done, in the meantime, is we have de- veloped a policy, which is policy 6.K, “Large-scale staff replacements. ” Th is is policy that is in the Home and Community Care Policy Manual that health authorities have to follow. “Health authorities must ensure service providers plan and manage the change process for cli- ents when a service provider is planning a large-scale staff replacement. ” Th e requirements are that they ensure that mainten- ance of the quality and safety of the client’s care is the priority through the process and that the client and their families are provided with information about the upcoming change; clients and families should have an opportunity to meet with the service provider, the new staff members, to identify key concerns; and ensure that the staff replacement does not happen until all clients are informed and have had an opportunity to have their concerns heard.

We acknowledge the impact this can have on residents and on families. We are working with the seniors ad- vocate to look at making sure that we are tracking how oft en this is occurring and for what reasons it’s occur-

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2016 12697 ring and, in the meanwhile, ensuring that the impacts on families and residents is absolutely minimized by health authorities. [1500] J. Darcy: To suggest that anyone agrees with con- tracting out because they have been unsuccessful in achieving protections or guarantees against it is a bit of a stretch. Th e reality is…. We discussed this very issue last year in this place, as we have in question period. Th e minister said exactly the same thing last year. “We have this policy. Th is is where you fi nd it. ” Referring to what the minister just said, he said….

It talks about meeting with family members, providing them with information. It doesn’t say anything about changing the practice. Now, it is true that it is legal to contract out. It is legal to fl ip contracts. But the minister has levers. Th e minis- ter has the ability to say…. Because the ministry provides funding to residential care operators through health authorities, the minister certainly has the ability to set policy that says that even in the event of contracting out or contract fl ipping, there is continuity of staffi ng and, therefore, continuity of care.

Besides the policy that the minister referred to, which involves meeting with and sharing information, what is the minister prepared to do to actually ensure continu- ity of care? Hon. T. Lake: Th e member refuses to acknowledge that…. Bill 29, and the contract negotiations that oc- curred, was an agreement. Union members agreed that contracting out would still be allowed to occur. Th e rea- son for contracting out is in order to save money. Th ere’s another way to save money, and that’s to not ask for so much on the other side of the bargain that is created. Th is is a two-sided bargain.

To suggest aft erwards, aft er unionized members agreed to a certain raise, an increase to allow for savings on the other side, and then aft er the fact say: “Well, we didn’t really mean it. We didn’t want that…. ” Well, okay, give up the other side of the bargain as well. It’s just disingenuous to suggest that the govern- ment or the contractors should give something up when it was bargained for in good faith by both sides. What we have said is that we are going to monitor this situation. We have instructed the health authorities to minimize the impact on families in the ways that I just outlined.

Th at’s what we are doing. We want to minimize impacts on families while still ensuring that we have a sustainable system of caring for our seniors in residen- tial care. Again, the answer from the member opposite is always: “Just put more money into something. ” Th ere has to be a way of ensuring that the system is sustainable. Th at is why the bargain was made — the grand bargain to allow contracting out to continue. J. Darcy: Well, we’re not going to pursue that line of discussion further. I’m actually extremely familiar with what the minister is talking about, and he has it wrong.

But that’s a discussion for another time. Let’s move on to…. Interjection. J. Darcy: Th e minister is laughing, but the impact of contract fl ipping on seniors care, on their morbidity and their mortality, is well documented. Let’s discuss the issue of staffi ng level and staffi ng mix in residential care. One of the issues that has been dis- cussed in question period over a number of days this ses- sion is the issue of…. Interjections. J. Darcy: I’m sorry, hon. Chair. I’m…. Th e Chair: Minister. Member. J. Darcy: Th ank you, hon. Chair.

We have spent some considerable time talking in this House during this session about the 3.36 hours of care that is the guideline for care per resident in residential care. [1505] My question to the minister has to do with whether or not his ministry has provided any advice, guidance or direction to health authorities beyond the 3.36 hours of discussion starter, which seems to have been in place for some time. It would appear that health authorities have, in some cases, developed their own staffi ng mix guidelines.

For instance, in Island Health, there’s a requirement, I under- stand, that contracted long-term-care providers meet that direct care hour accountability for which they are funded. But there is fl exibility in those accountabilities, with the minimum of professional hours being 15 per- cent. Professions, as defi ned in the Health Professions Act, can include dieticians, occupational therapists and social workers. It would appear that the hours of care per resident can vary depending on the professional percentage.

In Vancouver Coastal Health, I understand, they have recently reviewed staffi ng levels, and they’re attempting to standardize it with a new model of a mix of 10 percent RNs, 22 percent LPNs and 68 percent care aides, with the maximum number of RNs proportionate to facility size, which I understand was rolled out just last month. My question is whether or not the ministry is plan- ning to apply some consistency across health authorities, across the province — some consistency between funded residential care facilities. Just further to that, I know that

British Columbia Debates12698 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 an increase in residential care fees back in 2010-2011 was supposed to standardize staffi ng across the sector. Th at clearly has not worked. What are the ministry’s plans or intentions to standardize care? Hon. T. Lake: When the changes occurred to client rates in 2010, we committed to ensuring that all addi- tional revenue would be invested to improve residential care services. In fact, that is what happened.

Over $250 million of incremental revenue between 2010 and 2013 went into increasing staffi ng levels, increasing staff edu- cation and acquiring equipment. Seniors in residential care obviously do not all have the same care needs. So 3.36 direct care hours are included as a guideline to help planning when health authorities are looking at moving forward and at the needs to help them with budgeting. But it is not a requirement at this time. Th e mix of the seniors that are being cared for in the residential care facility will dictate the number of hours.

In many of the health-authority-owned-and-operated residential care homes, the needs of the clients are high- er. It is not unusual to see a higher number of direct care hours in those HA-owned-and-operated facilities. In other health care residential care facilities, the needs are at a lower level. Th e staffi ng number of direct care hours can be lower, refl ecting the lower needs of that population base. It is not a requirement. It’s a guideline. I know that the seniors advocate has been thinking about this. I remember this discussion when she fi rst came on board.

She was not at that time a proponent of mandating hours for every resident of residential care services based on a particular number. I know that she has been doing some thinking about that, and her opin- ions have evolved. [1510] I have asked my Parliamentary Secretary for Seniors, the MLA for Abbotsford South, to work with the seniors advocate, to work with the community of care providers and with the ministry to look at the number of hours for client care in residential care. I look forward to seeing the results of that work later this year. J.

Darcy: I’ d like to move on to staffi ng shortages in the area of health science professionals. We have, in several areas amongst health science professionals, some sig- nifi cant shortages, according to the occupations most in need in both the ministry’s documents and documents that flow from the Ministry of Advanced Education. Some of the most acute shortages, I understand, are in the area of diagnostic medical sonographers — that is, the folks who do ultrasound — psychologists, physio- therapists and also occupational therapists and respira- tory therapists.

When we’re talking about shortages, we’re talking about budgeted vacancies that employers are trying to fi ll but can’t fi nd people to hire in order to fi ll those. Even though there are not huge numbers of health science pro- fessionals in some of those categories — the percentage in terms of people employed in public health care in those categories — it has a very huge impact. Th ere is a grow- ing reliance, in the case of sonographer and psycholo- gist positions and several others, on privately contracted health science professionals, who actually cost the health care system more.

My question for the Health Minister is: what steps is the ministry taking to address the shortages of health science professionals in areas like sonographers, psych- ologists, physiotherapists, occupational therapists and respiratory therapists? I understand one of the issues is that we have far more people applying for these pos- itions than we have training spaces. What is the ministry planning to do, together with the Ministry of Advanced Education, to ensure that we have the training spaces in order to fi ll those needs? [1515] Hon. T. Lake: Th e member asked about a number of professions.

Each of them has their diff erent challenges. Ultrasonography. We have increased the number of seats at BCIT from 24 to 30, and there is still some chal- lenge in fi lling all the vacancies. Part of that challenge has been some of the wage disparities between what health professionals in this category would earn here versus Alberta. Alberta stands out as quite a bit higher from all other provinces. I recall a discussion I had with a former Minister of Health from Alberta who admitted that they had been solving labour issues by writing very large cheques for a long time. He did not think that was sustainable.

When we look at the gap, Alberta, for instance…. Th e hourly wage for a six-year ultrasonographer is about $9 more in Alberta than it would be in British Columbia and about $15 more than it is in the province of Quebec. Y ou can see that our proximity to Alberta and the ease of mobilization certainly is a challenge when we’re try- ing to keep ultrasonographers here in the province of British Columbia. Health Employers Association of B.C., working with the Ministry of Health…. We do a forecast of health hu- man resources. Each of the professions that the member asked about is included in our forecast.

Now, forecasting is exactly that. It’s your best estimate of the needs over time. With ultrasonographers, it’s es- timated that as we move into 2016-2017, the supply will be somewhat nearer to the demand than it is today. But again, that’s a forecast. Th at will be with our population coming, increased numbers coming out of BCIT, and I think we will see a migration of health care professionals back from Alberta over the next number of years. Again, it is a forecast. We work with Advanced Education. We have, through our agreement with the Health Sciences Association, a

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2016 12699 recruitment and retention committee to look at each of the areas that the member has mentioned, look at the number of seats available and make a plan, going forward, to meet that demand. Rather than go through each of these professions in turn, I would commit to the member that we will pro- vide a written response for all of those professions that she has outlined. J. Darcy: Th at would be greatly appreciated. Just on the issue of physiotherapists, my understand- ing is that we have far more people applying to get in, in an area of signifi cant shortage.

As well, we have far more students applying to get into the program every year. Th e last number I have is 310 applying in September of 2013. Th ere are only about 80 of those accepted, some of them in the northern, rural and remote cohort, each year. Are there plans to increase the number of training spaces? Perhaps that’s part of what the ministry can pro- vide — what plans there are to increase training spaces in the area of sonography, physiotherapists and the other health care professionals that I referred to. [R.

Chouhan in the chair.] Are there any plans to expand those training spaces so that they are provided outside of the Lower Mainland, because we know that health professionals are far more likely to stay in the communities or the regions that they come from and where they receive their training? [1520] Hon. T. Lake: When I went to UNBC, I actually participated and met with the physiotherapists there that were established as a northern and rural cohort in September 2012. Th is is part of the UBC training, but it gives students training and experience at UNBC.

Th at is to the member’s point that we need to ensure that physiotherapists are looking at all areas of the province to practise. We have identifi ed a gap in physiotherapists, which by 2018 will mean we’ll be falling short by 169 physios. Th at’s our estimate. As I said, that’s a forecast. Diffi cult to know exactly because people move in and out of the province. We’re seeing a net migration of people from Alberta at the moment.

However, the ministry is currently engaged with the Ministry of Advanced Education and other health sys- tem partners to analyze both public and private post- secondary education and training programs, including clinical placement capacity. Th at analysis will be used in concert with workforce planning models to identify opportunities to realign programs with the population health needs. It is very competitive to be placed in the master’s pro- gram, which is what the physical therapy program is.

I know this because a former ministerial assistant of mine, who was very, very keen, was very interested in entering the program. We’re doing work with the Ministry of Advanced Education at the moment, and part of that will look at training physiotherapists in more parts of the province than currently occurs. J. Darcy: Th e minister will also be aware that in addi- tion to training, the clinical practicum spaces are abso- lutely critical.

What is the Ministry of Health doing to ensure that we have an increased number of clinical prac- ticum spaces for sonography students as well as physio- therapy students? [1525] Hon. T. Lake: Y es, in my last answer I said that we were looking at the training programs, including clinic- al placement capacities. Th at’s a joint committee that we have with the Ministry of Advanced Education. Th e member is quite right. It’s one thing to have the classroom time, but you need to have those clinical place- ments available at the same time, so we are looking at that as well. J.

Darcy: Th e minister referred to working with the Ministry of Advanced Education. I know that if we look at the B.C. labour market outlook, health occupations as a category are predicted to have the sixth-highest num- ber of vacancies over the next ten years. Th at’s out of ten broad occupational groups, including some that we dis- cussed yesterday — RNs, as well as specialty nurses, nurse practitioners. Previously we talked about health care as- sistants, care aides and licensed practical nurses.

Th e occupations that we’re discussing now — health science professionals — certainly are on that list: physio- therapists, OTs, respiratory therapists, stenographers, medical laboratory technologists and profusionists. I understand there is a cross-ministry committee that is dealing with shortages in priority occupations going forward. Is the Ministry of Health represented on that committee? If so, who is it in the ministry that sits on that committee? Hon. T. Lake: Th e Ministry of Advanced Education and the Ministry of Health have formed a partnership committee on health and education.

It stays in close contact with the cross-ministerial committee looking at labour market needs. Th e member is quite right. We talk a lot about trades and technologists. When you look at the health profes- sions, it is right up there in terms of the demand that will be there for professions, and so we are paying a lot of attention to that. We have, as I mentioned, the partnership committee on health and education, which acts as a forum to facili- tate strategic planning and dialogue, to make recommen-

British Columbia Debates12700 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 dations on an integrated provincial approach to practice education, simulation and other issues where health and education intersect. We have a wide membership here. We have members — executive directors, for instance — from the Ministry of Health. From the Ministry of Advanced Education, we have a director of the provincial practice education, Health Sciences Placement Network from the Provincial Health Services Authority. We have chief nursing offi cers from the Chief Nursing Offi cer Council. We have the First Nations Health Authority.

We have VPs of human resources representing the health authorities, the VPs of medicine from the health authorities. [1530] UBC is represented there — the associate provost of health; research university, health and human services dean; teaching university’s school of health sciences dean; and a regional post-secondary institution dean from sci- ence, technology and health from Okanagan College.

So it’s a combination of health authorities, ministries involv- ing Advanced Education and Health, and academic in- stitutions that all work together to plan and look for the gaps that we will be looking at so that we can meet the demand in these various health professions. J. Darcy: I’ d like to move on now to what we refer to as general health categories — so it’s not about health human resources — and the issue of insulin pumps, dia- betes care.

Th e minister is, I know, very well aware of the num- bers of people living with diabetes in the province of British Columbia — according to the Canadian Diabetes Association, approximately 460,000 diabetics in B.C. Th ose numbers are predicted to steadily increase. Of those people living with diabetes, approximately 20,000 have type 1 diabetes. Th e minister will be very well aware, of course, of the impact of diabetes on the health care budget and that diabetes cost British Columbia $1.6 bil- lion last year.

Th e member for Vancouver-Kingsway, in a previous role, was really very active in leading the eff orts in this province to get coverage for insulin pumps for type 1 dia- betics for whom they were clinically necessary. Th e gov- ernment did, a few years ago, agree that insulin pumps would be covered up to age 25 under the PharmaCare program. But as the minister also knows, there are many type 1 diabetics over the age of 25 for whom an insulin pump is not just valuable but considered medically neces- sary, clinically required by their physicians and by their endocrinologists.

Th ey’re not covered past the age of 25. At the cost of $7,000 per pump, that puts insulin pumps out of reach for thousands of British Columbians. We know that the diabetes pumps can signifi cantly reduce the risk of serious complications like blindness, kidney failures, heart attacks, strokes and amputations. The case is being made powerfully by the Canadian Diabetes Association and by a very active group called Y oung and T1. [1535] Will the minster change the government’s policy and decide to start funding insulin pumps that are clinically required beyond the age of 25?

Th ere are indeed cost sav- ings that have been clearly demonstrated by the business case made by the Canadian Diabetes Association. Will the government change its policy in this regard? Hon. T. Lake: Of course, we’re always analyzing propos- als that come either up through the ministry or through patient advocates. Th at’s what we did when we met with the Canadian Diabetes Association and advocates — some very powerful advocates, I might add. I have to give a shout-out to Nel Peach, who was very persuasive when we looked at covering insulin pumps up to the age of 25.

Y ou know, it’s oft en where you’re going from late teens into early adulthood, a lot of people are going to univer- sity or just starting a job, and so oft en don’t have extended health care coverage, which would cover the use of an in- sulin pump. I think that what we did — I believe it was about 2½ years ago — to increase the coverage to cover everyone that wanted an insulin pump up to age 25 made a big diff erence in the lives of those people. Now, there’s no question that for some people an in- sulin pump is the best way to control their diabetes.

I’ve talked with some type 1 diabetics who prefer to use in- jections, even though they have coverage which would provide them with an insulin pump. It is not necessarily the best control mechanism for every type 1 diabetic, but we do understand that for many a pump is preferable. It costs, I believe, around $2 million each and every year when we made the change to cover the insulin pumps for those up to age 25.

Aft er meeting with the Canadian Diabetes Association and Nel and some of the other advocates just recently, here in Victoria, I’ve asked my staff to go back and look at this issue to see what it would cost to extend the coverage of insulin pumps. Of course, when we are dealing with the allocation of scarce resources, these are decisions that have to be thoughtful. For every decision you make to increase coverage in one area, you have to look at how you’re going to manage your entire budget. For 2016-17, our PharmaCare budget is $1,174,714,000.

Y ou would think that a few million dollars here or there doesn’t make a lot of diff erence, but the reality is that every time one of these decisions is made, it means that something else can’t be covered. When we’re looking at the addition of the newer hepatitis C drugs, which come at a cost of $50,000 to $70,000 per treatment, it leaves little room for fl exibility on some other areas that you would like to increase coverage. I have not ruled out a future decision to increase the coverage of insulin pumps, but we are faced with the challenge of fi nding out where we can fi nd savings that

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2016 12701 would allow us to do that. I must say that our staff work very hard to look for those opportunities to have savings so that we can use those savings to increase coverage in areas where we know it would make a diff erence. J. Darcy: I’m certainly glad to hear that the ministry is taking a hard look at this. The Canadian Diabetes Association estimates that of the 20,000 type 1 diabetics in British Columbia, approximately 13,000 of them are over the age of 25.

Th ey also estimate based on that that only about 40 percent of those would probably decide that they wanted to use an insulin pump. It is, absolutely, very much a matter of not just personal choice but also very much what medical advice people receive about the situations in which this is clinically required. Alberta and Ontario have both introduced coverage beyond the age of 25.

What was introduced in those provinces states very clearly that we’re talking about clinically required, medically necessary, and it spells out what that is. [1540] Certainly, the people who have come to this place to advocate on this issue have been very, very clear about what kinds of complications and what kinds of costs to the health care system have already been avoided because they were on an insulin pump up to the age of 25. Some of these young people — and it’s not just about young people — sure as heck don’t have access to ex- tended health coverage that pays for this.

Some of them have now been on insulin pumps for a number of years and can’t aff ord to stay on one. Companies are calling back the pumps that they have as loaners. Can the minister say within which time frame he hopes to make a decision about extending insulin pump coverage beyond the age of 25? Th ere are an awful lot of people waiting on his answer. Hon. T. Lake: I apologize for not introducing my staff from the PharmaCare division. Barb Walman is assistant deputy minister, and Mitch Moneo is executive director.

I want to thank them publicly because they’ve done some phenomenal work on a number of very diffi cult fi les, and I always appreciate the advice they give me. I can’t commit to a timeline at this point. It is, as I men- tioned, a delicate balance looking at the potential savings in other areas. We are working on a number of diff erent plans to try to save money in our PharmaCare budget.

When we are further down the road of realizing those savings, we’ll be in a better position to be where we can make a decision to cover insulin pumps for everyone, or, unfortunately, it may be that we won’t be able to make that decision because we can’t fi nd the savings. It is some- thing that we are committed to working on, but I cannot make promises at this point. I do want to make this point: even if we do not cover an insulin pump for someone 25 or older that is using one, we do pay for all of their insulin pump supplies. Th at’s an important factor.

In 2014-15, our expenditure for in- sulin pumps was $2.19 million, and for insulin pump supplies, it was $3.9 million — so a signifi cant public coverage of insulin pump supplies, which does, obviously, help those that are using a pump, even if the pump itself is not covered. J. Darcy: I’m well aware that the supplies are covered, but $7,000 is a cost that very, very few people can aff ord to pay. It essentially means that we’re talking about un- equal access to health care.

If you can aff ord to pay for your own pump beyond the age of 25, or if you’re lucky enough to have a Cadillac extended health plan that cov- ers it — because most plans don’t — then you have access to it. If you don’t have enough money in your bank ac- count or you have a lousy or nonexistent extended health plan, then you don’t have access to it. I’ d like to move on to HPV vaccine. [1545] About a year and a half ago, I wrote to the minister about two boys in my constituency who had just learn- ed that they were not eligible to receive the HPV vaccine that girls in their classrooms were receiving.

I raised that issue with the minister. At that point, boys were not cov- ered at all. Last year, the Minister of Health expanded the HPV vaccination program to include boys and young men that it deemed as “vulnerable, ” such as those who are gay, bi- sexual or questioning, along with those who are street- involved or HIV-positive. But the reality is — and this won’t be the fi rst time the minister has heard this — that this policy move is discriminatory in that it forces boys and young men to come out as gay, bisexual or question- ing to their parents and classmates in order to receive the vaccine.

Will the Minister of Health do the right thing and ex- pand vaccination to all boys and young men, not just those who are prepared to out themselves, with all of the stigma that is still attached to that? Hon. T. Lake: Again, when we are looking at alloca- tion of resources, we need to make sure that we are using them optimally. Th e vaccination of girls in a school-based program does provide a level of herd immunity for the population.

But it has been identifi ed that there are some males that are at risk, so we have allowed that vulnerable males would be eligible for the vaccine — but not in a school-based program. It is not a requirement that any male would identify or put themselves in a position that they have to make a public announcement about any- thing. Th ey can simply go to the public health service and say that they are vulnerable, and they will be pro- vided with the vaccine. [1550]

British Columbia Debates12702 Wednesday, May 4, 2016 J. Darcy: I think the minister is missing the point. We are still putting these boys or young men in a position of having to self-identify about their sexual or gender identity or self-identify as being at risk. Th at, itself, is a barrier to ensuring that, in fact, the protections are in place for some of the young men who are most in need of the vaccine. By doing this, we are also eff ectively…. We’ve now said that certain males, if they self-identify and risk the stigma that goes with that, can have access to the vaccine.

We are eff ectively saying that responsibility for vaccination, in or- der to protect against diseases that have to do with sexual activity, if they are between girls and boys, males and fe- males, are girls’ responsibility, are females’ responsibility. It seems to me that this is discriminatory on both counts. Surely, we want to have boys and girls — in this case, ensuring that boys, all boys — take responsibility for sexual activity and what might fl ow from that.

One of the best ways to ensure that we have the great- est possible protection, including what is referred to in the public health fi eld as “herd immunity, ” which we only achieve when a certain percentage of that population of young people actually receives the vaccine…. Surely, we want to increase the numbers signifi cantly in order to have that kind of herd immunity, for the sake of pre- venting cancers amongst this population and because of the costs that would be incurred by the health care sys- tem down the road when they do.

Can the minister speak to both issues, both what self- identifying means for young boys and also the fact that we are eff ectively putting the onus for male-female sexual relationships on girls by not protecting all boys? [1555] Hon. T. Lake: I want to go over a couple of points if I didn’t make it clear. If you’ve got a young male that is concerned about human papillomavirus and being ex- posed to the virus, they simply have to attend with a pub- lic health nurse in a confi dential manner. It does not need to involve anybody else. Th ey don’t have to make a public statement.

Th ey don’t have to reveal to anybody else what their concerns are and why they feel they’re vulnerable. Th e vaccine would be provided free. Th e vaccine, for the member’s edifi cation, is $250 for the series of vaccines, so it is not an inexpensive vaccine. Again, we are dealing with fi nite resources and how we use those fi nite resources to get the best possible cover- age of immunity for these particular diseases that we are forced to confront. We’ve gone from a situation where no boys were being vaccinated — which is a position taken by most jurisdic- tions, by the way.

Th e member has quoted two jurisdic- tions, but two out of 13 jurisdictions across the country is certainly not a majority. Now we’ve gone to where we have provided the opportunity for the highest-risk males who will not benefi t from the herd immunity that is cre- ated by vaccinating females. We’ve provided that oppor- tunity for them to be covered. If the member is criticizing a decision that has pro- vided coverage for vulnerable males, well, I’m sorry, but these are the decisions that have to be made when you have a fi nite number of resources.

It is a decision that’s made on the advice of professionals like Dr. Bonnie Henry, who is our deputy public health officer; Dr. Perry Kendall, our provincial health offi cer; and Warren O’Briain, who is my executive director. Th ese are the recommendations that come from committees. If, in fact, we can bring the price of that vaccine down, reconsideration can be given. But these are the decisions that have to be made in order to utilize the resources we have available. J. Darcy: Th e minister refers to other jurisdictions, and he also refers to costs.

Th ere was a study done by Princess Margaret Cancer Centre in Ontario that found that if all Canadian boys aged 12 years of age were vaccinated in 2012 there would be a savings of $8 million to $28 mil- lion for this cohort over their lifetime. Speaking of other jurisdictions, in April of this year Ontario extended HPV vaccination to all youth, join- ing with Prince Ed

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20160504pm-Hansard-v38n8
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20160504pm Hansard v38n8
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0d0d4c29643567fcc8d5bf63509ada632692f1b7

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