Vol. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: MARCH. 11, 1983 10:00 A.M- 1:00 P.M. No. 6

March 11, 1983 The House met at 10:00 A.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Tape 240 PK - 1 Order, please! MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: I know the gentlemen in the Opposition will be glad to know that I have another few Telexes. I will summarize two of them and read two of them. First of all, yesterday, after the statement made in the House during the day, I received a Telex from Mr.

Mason of Mobil Oil responding to our stop drilling order, which indicated that Mobil and its participants had considered the matter, they had previously, as you know, had given indication that their rigs had moved off the Banks. But he did state in his Telex quite clearly, and I think the press already had it, 'We again ask both of you' - this is addressed to myself and Mr.

Chretien - 'as Ministers of the Crown to convene a meeting to be attended by yourselves, your technical representatives and Mobil as operator for the purpose of discussing our respective technical studies on safety and attempting to reach a consensus on Winter drilling.' Almost immediately, within ten minutes of receiving that, I extended an invitation to Mr. Chretien to attend such a meeting, and that has already been given to the press as well. Another Telex came in from Mr. Chretien, I believe it was last evening, and the press are aware of it. I will just read it, Mr.

Speaker, because I do not want anyone to think that there is any comma or anything that I am leaving out of it. So I will read it; it is relatively brief as opposed to the type of Telex that I send. 557

March 11, 1983 Tape 240 PK - 2 MR. MARSHALL : Anyway, it says, "Prior to receiving your Telex and Mr. Mason's Telex of this afternoonn - prior to his receiving mine, he received Mr. Mason's - 'my officials in COGLA' - COGLA is the federal counterpart to the Petroleum Directorate - 'had already convened a technical meeting to be held tomorrow morning in St. John's to discuss matters related to safe operations of the two drilling rigs which have temporarily moved off the Grand Banks while waiting for pack ice to pass.

This meeting will be similar to those which have been held on a regular basis over the past several weeks and to which your officials have always been invited. Mr. Leo Brandon, Chief Engineer of COGLA, has invited experts from COGLA, the Coast Guard,and the Newfoundland Petroleum Directorate to meet at ~0:00 a.m. tomorrow morning' - this is now, at the present time. 'This will be followed by a technical meeting with specialists from Mobil, Smedvig, and Sedco, which are the companies directly involved in the operations offshore. "The type of issue to be discussed include 558

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 241 SD - 1 MR. MARSHALL: frequency of ice reconnaissance by flying vessels, distribution and numbers of stand-by vessels, methods to free rigs and anchor chains, improvement of ice detection by radar,and preparations for towing rigs. You will note there is : no reference to search and rescue. "I believe that a technical meeting with this type of agenda is best left to experts without the presence of ministers. I have spoken to Mr. Mason about this and he is in full agreement". After Mr . --- ~ -· ·--·· ·-· Mason's telegram to me, Mr. Mason, all of a sudden, is in full agreement.

"Therefore, while I would be happy .to see you again, I do not think that it would be appropriate in the context of highly technical discussions. I will, of course, receive a report about the outcome of the meetings, and I will be guided by the advice of my officials in any decisions I might have to make once the present temporary pack ice conditions change. At that time, I would be more than willing to see you if you so wish." So th .e meeting then is left up in the air. I qave responded, Mr. Speaker, with the telex that is presently going to Mr.

Chretien,and it is as follows,and I will read it to the House in total. 1' This is in response to your telex of last evening ret;> lying to my invitation to meet in St. John~'s on Winter drilling, I have to express extreme disappointment that for the second time in a week you have de .clined my invitat .ion ;t;or a timely meeting over the matter. You indicate in your telex that Mr. Mason concurs with your position that such a meeting is unnecessary. With respect I feel Mr. Ma .san is quite capable of speaking for himself.

He did just that in his telex of yesterday when h.e suggested a meeting be convened with both of us in attendance to reach . a consensus 559

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 241 SD - 2 MR. MARSHALL: on W~nter drilling. In response to this suggestion and with a sincere desire to see a resolution of this critical matter 1 I irmnediately extended th .e invitation for an immediate meeting which you now reject despite the obvious desires of Mr. Mason, the other participants, myself and any person interested in a speedy, rational resolution of this matter. A meeting merely of our technical representatives is no substitute.

When a previous technical meeting was requested for the purpose of assessing the adv ~ sability of issuing our order to cease drilling and return to port, we stated we had all the technical data necessary upon which to base a decision. Your response now forces us to state the obvious fact that events of the past few days conclusively prove the wisdom and cor .rectness of issuing that order. 11 AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear. MR. MARSHALL: ''We certainly do not need further technical meetings to understand Winter drilling must cease this year.

Indeed,we can all be thankful that the ob~tinacy of the oil companies and the federal government did not purchase this understanding at the expense of yet another tragedy and that there was a sufficient weath .er window to permit these rigs to moved out of the path of oncoming ice flows. 11 ~le we believe a technical meeting to be no subst~tute for the meeting with ourselves and the companies with technical advisors, I have, nevertheless, directed officials of the Petroleum Directorate to attend this meeting.

It is my hope that the Directorate can impart its obviously superior knowledge of conditions so that there can be a full appreciation of the situation. It must be understood, however, that mr officials' presence is not to be construed as an indication on the part of th .e ' . - provincial government of any 560

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 242 NM - 1 MR. MARSHALL: diminishing of confidence in its conclusion as to the inadvisability of continuing Winter drilling in presenting forecasted weather and ice conditions in its resolve to · see the rigs remain in port until these conditons abate. In the meantime,I feel it extremely important that our meeting take place as quickly as possible. When we have the experience of rapidly deteriorating weather conditions and advancing ice flows and difficulties in bringing the rigs to port, surely we do not need further technical data to deal with the matter.

Surely neither of us can permit drilling to take place with the spectre of oil rigs fleeing advancing ice packs and ice bergs looming before us. "We have the data of the International Ice Patrol indicating this to be the extremest year in recent history for ice. No sane or rational conclusion can be drawn other than that the rigs must remain in port until ice and weather abate sufficiently. I am alarmed by statements reportedly coming from your office the rigs will return. Surely 1in view of what has happened you are not going to force Mobil to return merely to prove the federal government is in charge.

"It is obvious we need an immediate meeting to discuss these self ·evident facts. We can then determine when the rigs should return, discuss the necessary questions of adjustments and reassessments of guidelines, the effective presence of search and rescue and other necessary points. Most of all 1 we can try to establish a co-operative basis and understanding which is so badly needed to deal with offshore matters. I therefore once again tender an invitation for that meeting. 561

_. March 11, 1983 Tape No. 242 NM - 2 MR. MARSHALL : "Regrettably, events require me to deal with another matter in this Telex and this relates to the reported removal of the rigs to Nova Scotia. The first public suggestion of this came from your colleagues in the Opposition of the ·Newfounland Legislature yesterday in Question Period when they rose the matter. Indeed 1 they seemed to positively exalt in the possibility. This was followed by statements reportedly coming from you and your assistants stating the rigs would be moved South to Nova Scotia.

There is no reason why these rigs should not be brought to Marys town. It is an ice free port .. It is the nearest port. It is the port to which rigs off Newfoundland have always been brought for servicing and inspections. This was pointed out to Mr. Mason yesterday who appeared to readily understand it. "I can only conclude the federal government has once again given directions to Mobil as you so obviously flex your muscles with your newly perceived power. It is obvious that if the rigs are taken to Nova Scotia instead of their customary port it will be at your direction.

What a distastefully spiteful act and attempt to punish Newfoundland for being right." SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL : "If this is a ploy to attempt to garner support among the very few of the business community who have been advancing your cause _here, I can assure you it will not be condoned by the majority of the commercial community here. 562

.:..:..,. March 11,1983 Tape No. 243 ah-1 MR. MARSHALL: Certainl y all Newfoundlanders and particularly the people of Marystown 1 will view the action as

an act of retribution against Newfoundland merely for persisting in its rights and what has proven to be in the interests of safety and welfare of its people. A copy of this telex is being forwarded to the member of parliament for Burin-St. George's 1who undoubtedly will wish to assess how he can possibly support the Government of Canada and represent the interest of the people of Marystown on the Burin Peninsula at the same time in view of this action." SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.MARSHALL: 11 I regret that your reactions force me to reply in this-vein.

It is a matter of record that yesterday I treated the decision magnanimously and refrained from styling it as a victory or vindication. Where 1however;I see the interests of the people of Newfoundland being run over in such a roughshod fashion, I must respond accordingly. It is our desire to be co-o~erative and I trust you will reciprocate accordingly. 11In su,rnmery, therefore 1 I wish to make it -cl-e~ ·~·;-,,.. and this is practically in baby talk, Mr. Speaker, so the han. gentlemen there opposite can understand it in crystal clear fashion - " Number one -'.

We agree to attend any technical meeting and to freely exchange relevant data. Two, there must be a political meeting between us, the oil companies and .officials to develop and refine joint guidelines on Winter drilling. And, three, the rigs should be taken to Marystown, the nearest ice free port,and the customary place for servicing and inspecting rigs off Newfoundland." Now that constitutes the telex, Mr. Speaker. And I can only say this, and I can 563

March 11,1983 Tape No. 243 ah-2 MR.MARSHALL: say this in all sincerity, as soon as that wire came in from Mr. Mason yesterday, right here in this House I dictated an answer to it by sending a wire to Mr. Chretien. I extended for the second time a very sincere invitation for him to come to St. John's. Normally I would go anywhere else,but St. John's is obviously the obvious place to discuss this matter. Unfortunately he has not seen fit to accede to this particular request.And I can only say , Mr.

Speaker, that it is a matter of so~e regret,because the gentleman had no problem at all coming down to Newfoundland when he was Minister of Justice to announce that they were referring the matter to the Supreme Court of Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: Neither did he have any problem at all of coming down like that, zip-zap, as soon as the negotiations ~ere over to try to castigate the position of the Province of Newfoundland. But yet he cannot find his way clear to come down on such a matter of obvious importance and safety _and security to the drill rig operations out there.

It makes you wonder, Mr.Speaker, it certainly makes you wonder, it has to make us all wonder 564

March 11, 1983 Tap e No. 244 MJ - 1 MR. W. MARSHALL: what Newfoundland is in for for the future. It is quite obvious from our point of view that perhaps we should reassess our position. On the one hand,if this is what is going to be meant by total management of the resource by the federal government,we have got an example of it here. We have contended very generously that there should be joint management. Maybe we should reassess it, Mr.

Speaker, in view of what has happened and say that the only way that the offshore can be operated effectively at all is going to be through sole management by the Province of Newfoundland because obviously from 2,000 miles away - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: - from 2,000 miles away, Mr. Speaker, one's perspective is l?Omewhat blunted and it obviously is blunted and it obviously, Mr.

Speaker, in view of such a critical situation as this we have seen the person who is the head of the department 1 who should be here and should have responded to this invitation without any reservation whatsoever, who should be here we have seen does not have the t:ilr.e to come down here. Now he never had time to sign the permits for the British Petroleum offshore .- we know that- until the last minute, and if they do not have time, Mr.

Speaker, to spend the necessary time and attention to the offshore of this Province,I think-their best bet would be to cede to the people who have shown in the past few days that they know how to operate it and manage it effectively. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. ~· SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. --NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the only thing that is blunted is the han. the gentleman's thinking. What 565

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 24 4 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: we have heard, Mr. Speaker, from the hon. the gentleman is the latest

chapter in the ongoing controversy between the administration and Ottawa. It is getting to be like a soap opera, Mr. Speaker. Every day now in this House we have telexes. and Ministerial Statemtents that are designed for two reasons. Mr. Speaker, all this week what we have been hearing is Shoe Cove and the oil rigs,and why are we hearing this, Mr. Speaker? Well,I will tell the House why we are hearing statements similar to the one just given by hon. gentleman. These are diversionary tactics. These are tactics that are deliberately designed to distract from the real issues in this Province.

We have not yet this week, we are meeting a week MR. G. TOBIN: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. NEARY: please from the lap dogs? MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Stuc~ with your friends in Ottawa. Order, please! Mr. Speaker, could I have silence Order, please! Mr. Speaker, we are here one week in this House and we have not heard about Burin or Gaultois or Ramea, we have not heard about Corner Brook or Buchans or Labrador City, we have not heard about the crisis in the fisheries, we have not heard about any of the real issues f.acing the 566

March ll, l983 Tape 245 PK - ~ MR. NEARY: the people of this Province. Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman is deliberately bringing in these telexes and ministerial statements to divert attention from the real issues that are facing the · people of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear,hear! MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman gets up and speaks as if he was in complete command and control of the offshore. The han. gentleman ignores the fact that three judges of the Newfoundland Appeals Court, three Newfoundland judges - PREMIER PECKFORD: He is happy about that. MR. NEARY: sad about it because - MR.

TOBIN: No, Mr. Speaker, I am A judge wrote a report about you but you do not have the courage to resign. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! MR. NEARY: If the hon. gentleman wants to speak, I will give the hon. gentleman the floor. MR. S~ER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the Newfoundland Appeals Court, three Newfoundland judges in their opinion stated that the offshore belonged to Ottawa. Now the han. gentleman is ignoring that fact completely.

The han. gentleman would prefer to play politics with this very ser~ous matter rather than face up to the fact that the Newfoundland Appeals Court said to the whole world, 'Ottawa, you own the resource.' The han. gentleman took a unilateral decision, ~o prior consultation with the people whom the three Newfoundland judges said own the resource. The han. gentleman is proceeding as if he was the boss and he is flexing his muscles and he has no muscles to flex, 567

March 11, 1983 Tape 245 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The administration had been stri~ of their authority, they gave it away, the Premier threw it away. When the Premier referred the matter to the Newfoundland Appeals Court he gambled with our offshore treasure and he flung it away. And now, Mr. Speaker, they are trying to make amends by dragging in these red herring issues. They are trying to f~ex their muscles and they have no muscles left to flex. I would suggest to the han. gentleman that this is no way to carry on negotiations to try to resolve the settlement of this matter.

It is no way to come - PREMIER PECKFORD: Do you want a meeting'? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman says he wants a mee.ting. Mr. Speaker, a number of meetings have been requested by the Federal Minister of Energy (Mr. Chretien}_ and the Provincial Minister (Mr. Marshall) refused to attend. Two weeks ago, Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman was in vi ted to a meeting_ convened,_ . _ . -----.. . ---- by the Federal Minister of ~nergy~ MR. MARSHALL : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): Order, please~ The han. President of the Council, on a point of order. MR.

MARSHALL: The han. member is out of order. As a matter of fact the. han. member is always out of order. The fact of the matter is I was never requested by the Federal Minister of Energy to attend a meeting, I have always attended-the only meeting that was attempted to be convened at a certain period of time was to be convened for the purpose of trying to give the public impression that this . -_56 B

March 11, 1983 Tape 245 PK - 3 MR. MARSHALL: Province "'as going to reassess the decision it made after assessing all of the cold hard facts, and ~V'e would not do that, Mr. Speaker, we could not do it and the events of yesterday proved why we would not do it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell l: a valid point of order. MR. NEARY: ministerial statements and 569 Hear, hear!" Order, please!" I have to rule it is not Mr. Speaker, all these

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 246 NM-1 MR. NEARY: inflammatory political statements that are being made by the han. gentleman, mean and nasty political statements made by the han. gentleman, are getting us nowhere. It is not bringing about a resolve of the problem. And, Mr.Speaker, the han. gentleman can waltz in here day in and day in, make ministerial statements, release Telexes that he sent to Ottawa and to the companies, Mr. Speaker, but the fact of the matter is that the rigs are coming in and unfortunately they are not coming to Newfoundland because of the hon. gentleman•s SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh,oh~ MR.

TOBIN: Because of your friends in Ottawa, the clique in Ottawa. MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) _: Order, please~ Order,- please! MR. NEARY: - because, Mr. Speaker, the han. the Premier threw away whatever rights we had to the offshore. Instead of sitting down and negotiating an agreement, the han. gentleman gambled with our offshore treasure and he lost and his name will go into the history books. MR. TOBIN: Is this not typical of what the federal government will do (~naudible). MR. NEARY: the Burin lap dog quiet? MR. TOBIN: this House. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, could you keep Burin finally has a voice in The Premier ''s name will go into the history books as a loser, as a failure and, Mr, Speaker, it 570

March 11, 19S ·3 Tape No. 246 IB-2 MR. NEARY: seems to me that they will never learn. They are still on a disaster course as evident by the so-called ministerial statement made by the bon. gentleman today, who has the face to talk about joint management and then goes off and makes a unilateral decision. Joint ~anagement, how are you~ All they are interested in is playing politics, Mr. Speaker, and when the hon. gentleman hints at the administration reassessing its position we all know what the bon. gentleman is driving at. We all know about his anti-Canadian, anti-Confederate attitude.

We all know about · the Premier's separatist statements. And, Mr. Speaker, I would submit that the next thing we will hear is separatist statements from the Premier again. MR. SPEAKER (Russelll: Order, please!· Order, please! The time for the hon. Leader of the Opposition has expired. Before we proceed, I would like to welcome to the galleries today a delegation from the North Harbour-Colinet-Harricott-Mount Carmel area, led by the Development Association of St. Mary•s Bay North. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear , hear:· PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAI<ER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: 571 Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Premier. Hear, hear~

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 247 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, now that the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) is on the run, let us really make him run. I wish, Mr. Speaker, to table in this House a further telex that I have sent to the Prime Minister of Canada as a follow up to a number of other initiatives that we have been taking over the last number of weeks. The telex reads as follows: 'My dear Prime Minister: In the last few weeks I have contacted you requesting that you intervene in a decision made by your government to close the Shoe Cove Satellite Tracking Station.

I have gone as far as to suggest that if it means saving the valuable facility the Government of Newfoundland is prepared to as ·sist in funding the operating cost of the station. To this date you have not responded to my proposal. I understand in the next week some of the equipment will be removed if action to save the station is not tak .en now. Many of your own agencies have expressed in writing support for keeping this Station open. I just cannot understand why your government insists on this closure.

If you will not agree to our latest proposal that both Governments help in the operating cost, and while thi .s remains our preferred position 1 I am now proposing that the Government of Newfoundland is prepared to operate the station totally on its own.• SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: 'All we request from your government is that the Station,with the equipment now in place, be passed over to the Government of New£oundland for a nominal sum.• SOME HON. MEMBERS: Kear , hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, Mr.

Speaker, let it just be said as a follow · up to the Ministerial Statement earlier this week explaining .the valuable function that this facility now plays and 1more importantly, Mr. Speaker, the yaluable contribution that this facility can play years a.nd years 572

March 11, 1983 Tape No . 247 SD - 2 PREM,IER PECKFORD : do\'ln the road, it is not for now that we are putting this proposal on the table ~ It is not for now, it is for the future, Mr. Speaker, that we put this proposal on the table . We have some private sector companies who have a proposal now in to the Mini:ster of Development (.Mr . Windsor) to assist us in operating the station . \'le have a number of proposals which show that after five yea~s this station can 573

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 248 MJ - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: pay for itself. So here we have a very high technology facility which with sane rrodest upgrading over time, over the next three or four years, can pay for itself and help contribute to the high marine technology that we are trying to develop through C-Core, NORDCO and all the other private industries that are around that we now have a special programme for.

So I am appealing to the Prime Minister of Canada that if he will not through his government jointly help us operate it, because they say they have no rroney - they have a $30 billion deficit, they have money for building convention centers in Windsor, Ontario, but no money for keeping a very valuable, high technology station open in Newfoundland. It does not seem right to me, Mr. Speaker. That is all right 1we have no money eithe4but we will scrape the money somewhere, Mr. Speaker, And now we are putting it on the table for the Prime Minister, so let him show his sensitivity now to Newfoundland.

We will, , this small, tiny Government of Newfoundland, will operate this facility totally on our own if they will leave the equipment where it is and give it to us for a nominal sum. That is all we ask of the federal government. We will operate it, we will get private enterpris·e, we will somehow get the thing working the same way as we did with the synchrolift the same way as we did with NORDCO. Who has been operating NORDCO? NORDCO is going to break even this year. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: They got out of NORDCO three years ago,now it is breaking even.

They are getting out of the Satellite Tracking Station in Shoe Cove now, five years from now we will stand here 1with fifty to two1 and say that the Shoe Cove Tracking Station is breaking even. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! 574

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 248 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if I were the Prime Minister I would answer the hon. gentleman in the affirmative. I would say that we would be very glad to pass this over to you for one dollar and have you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of taxpayers'dollars of Newfoundland on an obsolete, worn-out, inadequate tracking station. Mr. Speaker, it just goes tci show how far the han. gentleman will go prove his point.

The han. gentleman has been wrong on that tracking station so far, he has been completely wrong. The tracking station cannot penetrate the clouds, it cannot penetrate after dark, it cannot track ice, it cannot track icebergs ,and in their wisdom the scientists - MR. H • BA.."'mETT: Why did the Feds put it there for in the first plare? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I did not interrupt the han. gentleiP.an. PREMIER PECKFORD: What I said was sound. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman was proven by the media and by this House, by the Opposition, to be wrong, incorrect ,.

He misled the people and now he is going - to further try to mislead the people by his theatrical antics in this House, Mr. Speaker. It will cost the taxpayers ultimately miilions of dollars and they will have nothing in return for it. How will the people in Burin how will t.'Je TJe()Dle in Rarnea and Gaultois and Ferrneuse and 575

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 249 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: Bell rsland and Happy Valley- Goose Bay and Labrador West and Corner Brook, how will they feel, Mr. Speaker, when they hear this statement from th.e Premier that he can find the money to keep an obsolete tracking station open when here you have communities threatening to be wiped out, Mr. Speaker? How will they feel? How will Harbour Breton feel? How will Grand Bank feel? How will all the communities on the Premier's - MR. WARREN: How will all the people on welfare feel? MR. NEARY: ·Mr. Speaker, howwill the people on welfare feel when they hear this?

Row will the sick people feel when the budget is brought down and they are forced to clos .e hospital beds ·? How will the professional pe .ople feel when they get a tax wacked on them in th.e budget b7( the. .Mini.ste.r of Finance (Dr. Collins ·l? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hen. Leader of t.he Opposition's time has expired. The hon. Minister of R\Jral, Agricultural and Northern Development. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. GOUDIE: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. GOUDTE: Ifea.r, hear, Mr. Speaker, on Ma .rch. 3l.st, 19.83 - Oh., oh., Order 1 p1eas:e .! Oh., oh..

Order, please! .1'<1r, speaker, on March.3ls:t, 1983, in just twenty days -time, the Canada-Newfoun<Uand S'ubsi .dia,;ry Agreement for Rural Development will expire. It ia my purpose today to report to the House of Assembly on the status o£ negotiations towards a renewal of federal and provi .ncial support to rural development i.n Newfoundland a.nd Labrador. 576

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 249 SD - 2 MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, fifteen years ago the rural areas of our Province were in a state of economic decay and social trauma. This was a time when governments, both federal and provincial, tried to transform our Province into a replica of North American urban industrial life. The conventional widsom of the day was for governments to assist in the process of rural decline by offering residents incentives to move to towns and cities.

Between 1953 and 1975 more than 28,000 people became the subjects of a radical forced migration experiment, called the Resettlement Program, and more than 200 communities disappeared completely. What governments were saying to our rural people was that their skills and their way of life was redU{ldant 1 an anacronism that could not be _tolerated. It was the rural people themselves who sent a clear message to their governments that they valued their way of life and wanted it to be preserved, not as a museum piece, but as a prosperous and viable alternative to urban life. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H.ear, hear. MR.

GOUDIE: It was through organizations like rural development associations that this message was · communicated, and it was through th .ese same organizations that the prospects for rural economic revival came to be identified and pursued. In 1974 the :t:ede .ral and provincial governments s·igned an extremely importa .nt COII\p .ac .t, the general development agreement. This agreement, which was to last for at least ten years, specified the direction which government support to economic development was to take. Mr.

Speaker 1 I: would like to read the primary objective of that general developll)ent agreeiT~ent to the House today. The agreement sta .tes:~ 'The braa .d objectives of this agreement are to increase the number and quaLity of 577

March 11, 19&3 Tape No. 249 SD - 3 MR. GOUDIE: long-term employment opportunities and improve access to these opportunities by the people of Newfoundland'- I will add Labrador -'and to 578

March 11,1983 Tape No. 250 ah-1 MR.GOUDIE: increase opportunities for people to live in the area of their choice with improved real standards of living." Our two governments had recognized, in this objective, the legitimacy and reasonableness of build the economy upon the traditions and values which characterise us as people, not in spite of them. Since 1974 the federal and provincial governments have cost-shared their respective commitment to this objective through the ARDA 111 and the Canada-Newfoundland Rural Development Subsidiary Agreements.

During this time Regional Development Associations have grown to 51 in number representing more than508 communities and 45 per cent of our population. In the last five years rural development associations have assisted more than 14 departments of government in economic development and expended in excess of $37 million on developmentprojects, ,creating more than 1,200 jobs and enhancing the productivity of a further 5, 000 jobs .- in 1981/82 alone.

The support to small businesses provided through our federal-provincial agreements has stimulated more than $8 million in 'investment and created more than 800 long-term jobs in the private sector. The crafts marketing programme which helps our more than 800 crafts producers overcome the marketing costs for their products, in 1982 was directly responsible for $700,000 in sales. The rural development programmes extend employment, income and economic opportunity to all of the Province so that people can "live in the area of their choice with improved real standards of living." The rural communities of this 579

March 11,1983 Tape No. 250 ah-2 MR. GOUDIE: Province are not a backwash or a poor cousin to the towns and cities. While elements of our rural lifestyle are under attack from external elements like the seal hunt protestors, we have been able to say that both governments have tried to direct public investment for economic development to supper~ our rural way of life. We have also been able to say that both governments have co-operated and collaborated in rural development despite differences which exist in other areas of intergovernmental relations.

Both governments provide financial and implementation support to rural development programs and officials from both governments manage the decision-making boards and committees involved in the allocation of funds. It has been, Mr. Speaker, a singularly effective partnership between the federal government, the provincial government and the rural people of our Province. In June,l982 1our government submitted "A Proposal for Integrated Rural Development" to the Government of Canada.

The five-year proposal calls for the expenditure of $39 million in support of rural development associations, crafts development, co-operatives and small business. We have yet, Mr.Speaker, to receive a formal response to our proposal which has now been in federal hands for almost ten months. Since the time of our original submission both the Premier and I have had several meetings with federal ministers in an attempt to elicit a response on federal intentions for a continuation of our rural development programmes.

We have been advised that the federal government might look favourably upon a two-year extension to our existing 580

...l.. March 11,1983 Tape No. 250 ah-3 MR.GOUDIE: programs at a value of $3.5 million per year, to afford the federal government with sufficient time and opportunity to review 581

March 11, 1983 Tape 251 MR. GOUDIE: the impact of their recent reorganization in regional development strategy. PK - 1 While the assurances we have received for an agreement extension are encouraging, we have ~ut twenty days remaining before all rural develop~ent funding will be discontinued. There are 2,000 rural Development Associations volunteers, 50 co-ordinators with the Associations, hundreds of people working on Association sponsored projects, BOO craft producers and numerous small businesses who are anxiously awaiting a firm indication as to what will happen.

Mr, Speaker, our government, my department, stands ready and willing to sign a new agreement. Our commitment to rural development and to the objectives of the General Development Agreement is unrelenting and without reservation. The: :ten years of federal/provincial co-,operation in rural development has been to the: benefit of the people of this Province,and so it should be,for they are our masters. The . purpose of governing is to serve the people whom we represent. I would hope, Mr.

Speaker, that our federal government stands by its commitment to the General Development Agreement _and to the rural communities of this Province. A firm indication of the federal government's ~tentions on the Rural Development Agreement will be

an act of service to our people. It will remove the fear and insecurity w.hich . has been created by the. absence of a firm statement that the partnership between both levels of government and our rural communities, which has matured over ten years, is the compact xor the future which. we liad all understood it would be .• SOME: HON .' .MEMBERS: Hear, hear!. 582

March 11, 1983 Tape 251 PK- 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) _: The han. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. NEARY: Another phoney issue. MR. WARREN: Mr. speaker, I am surprised that the minister would came in today with such a statement, knowing full well that the agreement will be extended for at least six months or a year. The minister knows full welL and the members on that side know full well that within twenty days time that agreement will be extended. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! - MR. WARREN: Talk about twenty days I MR.Speaker the oil rigs moved off the Grand Banks within twenty days.

So the twenty days do not mean a thing, Mr. Speaker. All it means, Mr, Speaker, they are playing with ~rds and tlie- minister knew full well before he brought in this Ministerial Statement that the agreement is going to be extended. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh!' MR. WARREN: Mr. speaker, I am surprised with all the lap dogs on that side commenting back and forth .• ' --·-·-· •: .... .. --·· -. T.he minister has admitted that the 1,200 jobs and the $37 ... millionDxm the . last agreement are about to expire. Does the.minister realize that those oig cad wolves in Ottawa are paying 90 per cent of this?

Ninety per cent of the Rural Development Agreement is paid by the oig bad wolves in Ottawa. So what hav~ this government done with the rural areas of this Province? This: government have not done . anything for the -rural areas of thi:s Province. MR. ; NEARY: I did not think you w~~ted Ottawa money. 583

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 252 NM- 1 MR. WARREN: All this government is worried about is the Shoe Cove station. would the Premier - MR. NEARY: Ninety/ten is joint. MR. WMREN: Joint! Everything is joint! Mr. Speaker, I wonder . is the Premier going to send a telegram or a letter to Prime Minister Trudeau now . if thls agreement falls through and say, "We will pay for rural development." No way! The Premier has not got the intestinal fortitude. MR. NEARY: Take the money you are going to spend on Shoe Cove and give it to the Rural Development Association. MR.

WARREN: The Premier does not have the intestinal fortitude to come out publicly and stand up for the rest of Newfoundland outside of the Overpass. The Premier does not have that much forti tude·, Mr. Speaker. And, Mr. Speaker, I would like to advise the hon. House, in fact the minister already knew i·t, that this agreement is going to be extended. There has to be a restructuring of the way the money is going to be administered. There is going to be a restructur~ng. And it needs restructuring, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Ninety/ten is joint. MR. WARREN: It needs restructuring, Mr. Speak~r.

All of a sudden, Mr. Speaker, the Premier is all cocky, the Premier is all cocky because he cannot get his own way for a change. Too bad. I say too bad, but the people who are suffering are the Newfoundland people, pot the Premier. And the Premier should be ashamed of himself. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! The time for the hon. member for Torngat Mountains has expired. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Social Services. 584

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 252 NM- 2 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a statement on the Report of the Auditor General pertaining to my department. Before I get into that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) and his friends over there, I am still somewhat in the dark as to what their position is on the closing of the satellite station, and I would certainly invite them to join me in another protest when they are moving out the equipment, if they would like to. MR. NEARY: No. I am going down to Burin, Gaultois, and Ramea, that area. MR.

HICKEY: Oh, I see. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. HICKEY: Mr.- Speaker, there are some people - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, there are some people working on the offshore from Burin and Trepassey and from all of those places whose lives are at stake· and who are at great risk, and where that satellite station could be of great benefit now and in the future to ensure a higher degree of safety. Mr. Speaker, the fact of the natter is that the han. gentlemen opposite do not know where they stand from day to day and they have to take their directions from Ottawa. 585

March 11, 1983 MR . NEARY: MR . SPEAKER (Russell): MR. HICKEY: Tape No. 253 (Inaudible) on the skids. Order, please! Mr. Speaker, I make this SD - 1 statement because of some confusion in the statement by the Auditor General with regard to overpayments in my department. Before dealing with the statement by the Auditor General, Mr. Speaker, I think it is important that I read an editorial in The Evening Telegram yesterday which goes to show just how far the statement by the Auditor General has been misunderstood; in fact, it is astounding. It say, "Welfare and overpayments".

"The Social Services Department of the provincial government" - MR. NEARY: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: A point of order, the hon. Mr. Speaker, I hate to interrupt the hon. gentleman, but if the hon. gentleman is making a Ministerial Statement, that is great. We welcome a Ministerial Statement from the hon. gentleman, it is his first since the House met on Monday, and it looks like what we are going to see in the future in this House is a whole series of Ministerial Statements. MR. SIMMS: That is not a point of order. MR.

NEARY: Hold on now, I am coming to my point of order. The point of order is that the hon. gentleman is reading an editorial and the former speaker knows that that is unparliamentary, that you cannot read from newspapers or editorials in this hon. House, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman can quote from it and he can refer to the statements but he cannot read it. I mean, even a kindergarten student knows that. 586

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 253 SD - 2 MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I have never been known to be difficult to get along with. I will repeat the editiorial from memory if that would help the han. gentleman. MR. NEARY: Well, do it right, you know. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Hear, hear. Order, please! Before the hon. minister continues, a point of order was raised by the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary). And it is the opinion of the Chair that maybe the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) was quoting from an editorial. MR. NEARY: He said that he was going to read it. MR.

HICKEY: In other words, Your Honour, I can quote from it. That is good. Mr. Speaker, the editorial takes out of context completely the statement, i.e., the Auditor General. As a matter of fact, it has to be the greatest misinterpretation of a statement that I have ever witnessed. It accuses the staff of my department of making all the mistakes amounting up to $4,135,000. It calls on me to be very compassionate with those people who have had small amounts of overpayments of, say, $200 or $300 or $500. And it calls upon me to nail to the cross those who have overpayments of $5,000 or $10,000 and over. MR.

NEARY: Another attack on the media. MR. HICKEY: Now, Mr. Speaker, it is no attack on the media. It is pointing out a very blatant, a very unnecessary discrepancy, a very unnecessary editorial .when, in fact, the person writing the editorial was not in possession of the facts and did not bother to go check. And this is not the first editorial. There was a similar editorial about the closing of the satellite station. 587

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 254 MJ - 1 MR . T. HIC KEY: Mr. Speaker, you know, the editorial should really stick to the subject per se. If the gentleman writing the editorial wishes that I be compassionate with somebody who has an overpayment of $500,but out of the other side of his mouth wants me to nail to the cross somebody who has an overpayment of $10,000, he is apparently under a great misconception. The person who has an overpayment of $10,000 also has children who are innocent victims. Am I not to show compassion there?

Am I to disregard the fact that there are children in that home and just wipe that family right out, right off the map? MR. S. NEARY: You are nit-picking. MR. HICKEY: I am not nit-picking at all. The han. gentleman is losing all his battles these days,that is why he calls it nit-picking. Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is the editorial refers to the fact that it is the blunder of the bureaucrats in my department and he calls upon me to reprimand them, and, as I have said, he calls upon me to have compassion. But,Mr.

Speaker, the fact that I am not dealing with that editorial in a more scathing fashion is because of the fact that I am drawing on my compassion for the individual concerned who wrote it. If I were not so compassionate I would have a number of other things to say,but I will chaulk it up to ignorance of the facts or,as one said one time, 'A little knowledge is very dangerous.' Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is the $4,135,000 in overpayments was built up since Confederation, not in the fiscal year 1981-82.

The fact of the matter is for the fiscal year covered by the Auditor General there were overpayments to the tune of $1.6 million 1not $4,135,000. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that in that same 588

.at. March 11, 1983 Tape No. 254 MJ - 2 MR . T. HICKEY: fiscal year my department staff recovered $1.1 million of that $1~6 million, leaving a balance of $500,000 not $4,135,000. The fact of the matter is that by now, Mr . Speaker, the greater portion of that $500,000 which was on the books at the end of 1981 - 82 has been recovered through 589

March 11,1983 Tape No. 255 ah-1 MR. HICKEY: 5 per cent deductions. Now, Mr.Speaker, what causes overpayments? What are we talkinq about when we talk about overpayments? Another branch of the media, shortly after the release of the report of the Auditor General, interpreted what the Auditor General had to say as though I had overspent in my department for the year 1981-82 to the tune of $4.135 million, in other words , spent that much money outside of my budget while in effect we stayed within our budger that year. So there is just total confusion about the statement by the Auditor General. Mr.

Speaker, those overpayments are made up in the following manneri 23 per cent of that amount of $1.6 million for the year 1981-82 that I referred to is brought about through overlapping of federal programmes such as unemployment insurance, •··Tork ·~rs' compensation - I am sorry, unemployment insurance and canada pension, and a very small amount because of workers' compensation benefits. How much error, Mr.Speaker, is reflected through administrative error by my staff that the editor draws attention to and wants me to reprimand and calls them bureaucratic errors? How much are we talking about of that $1.6 million?

Four per cent, Four per cent , Mr. Speaker. I do not think that istoo bad when you acknowledge the fact that as in no other department, as in no other agency that I know of in the world,I do not hire people of perfection , we do not have people who are perfect. They are human beings, they make some mistakes too. Mr. Speaker, the other fact is that while the editorial deals so harshly with the bureaucrats and calls it bureaucratic blundering 1 590

March 11,1983 Tape No . 255 ah-2 MR .HICI<EY: I am surprised that the editor is not pleased by the fact that a fair portion of the money involved in the year 1981-82 deals \ITith unreporting of income,or people who have beat the system,for which they have been uncovered and collections of the overpayments brought about by the uncovering of such blatant abu .se of the system has been made. In other words, the recovering of taxpayers' dollars which were spent on people who were not deserving of the benefits that they received. One would expect the editor to hail that as a positive thought.

Bu~no, Mr.Speaker, there is no mention of that. Now, Mr . Speaker, finally the editor need not worry about our compassion. The compassion of this government, the compassion of my department and my sta ff is most adequate . 591

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 256 NM - 1 MR. HICKEY: So adequate is the compassion of my staff, through the englightened policies of this government - and by this government, Mr. Speaker, I might say, because this is a new thing, this is a new policy in the last three or four years, it was · not in place before - we pay light bills for people.

We are not allowed to pay light bills, nor do we have a policy or a ·regulation which allows us under the law to pay light bills, but because our compassion is such for little children, because where there are homes that are without heat and light and appliances to cook to look after the children, my staff will pay a light bill after there is a cut-off notice. That canot be done legitimately under the regulations, so it is done on an emergency basis. An overpayment is se .t up.

In other words, there is an advance provided to the family, the light bill is paid, the electricity is turned on, and the family continues on. And that amount of money, Mr. Speaker, is recovered over a period of time through the withholding of 5 per cent of the person's cheque. So, Mr. Speaker, really it is very unfortunate that this kind of editorial seeks to smear, as it were, a dedicated, competent staff, and blame all those mistakes, supposedly, which indeed are non-existent, on my staff. Mr. Speaker, my final comment is this.

I do not fault, and far be it for me to question the right of the Auditor General to make any statement. The Auditor General in his figures and in his statement is accurate. If I have any criticism, if I have any disagreement with the Auditor General's .statement it is in fact that he probably did not go far enough to explain that that $4.135 million was in fact not 592

... March 11, 1983 Tape No. 256 NM - 2 MR. HICKEY: for the fiscal year 81/82, out in fact had built up over the years. And the Auditor General used the te:rlll in his statement, "as at March 31st., 1982", and one would have assumed that people would have understiood that. The fact of the matter, Mr. Speaker, which has come to my attention is that people do not understand that jargon. So my only point is that it is important that the issue be clarified. My budget was not overspent, nor was there t;>ve ·r­ payments to the tune of $4.135 million during any one fiscal year. S.OME RON. MEMBERS : MR.

SPEAKER (Russelll: Mountains. MR. WARREN: Hear, hear! The han. member for Torngat Mr. Speaker, the minister speaks about compassion. During the last si ttinq of this Ifo .use, and in his first ministerial statement, I must say that he has not v . ~ shown very much compassion 593

March 11, 1983 Tape 257 PK - 1 MR. WARREN: for the members of the Opposition, because he has not even provided a copy of his statement so I can respond. So, Mr. Speaker, it is only talk about compassion that comes from the minister. MR. HICKEY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russelll: Order, please! The han. Minister of Social Services, on a point of order. MR. HICKEY: I am sorry, but I cannot produce a copy of a statement when there is no written statement. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR . HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, my point of order, if I am allowed to make it under the rules of the House - MR.

NEARY: No! Sit down! MR. HICKEY : You would like for me to sit down, I am sure you would. I started to read from an editorial - MR. HI .SCOCK: You made a speech. MR. HI CKEY : - a

section of the newspaper. My Ministerial Statement was verbal. That is my right under the rules, Mr. Speaker. Some people read statements, some people do not read statements; sometimes I read statements, sometimes I do not read statements. Today I did not read the statement. I do not have one to read because I did not have time to put one together. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. HICKEY: If the han. gentleman, you know, is not able to get what I said, I will repeat it. I will play the tape. MR. NEARY: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. 594

March 11, 1983 Tape 257 PK- 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Leader of the Opposition, to the point of order. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. I was going to raise a point of order myself but I would like to draw Your Honour~s attention to page 87 of Beauchesne, Statements by Ministers, number 262, and I believe Your Honour had Beauchesne already opened, because I think everybody in the House was rather shocked at the hon. gentleman calling that a ~inisterial Statement. Ministerial Statements, this is the . ide scription in Beauchesne.

"Statements by Ministers have now been given a recognized place in Routine Proceedings. The Standing Order is specific but considerable latitude has been left to the Speaker to set limits on the participants. The Speaker has emphasized that both the Government and the Opposition contributions should be brief and factual." Should be brief and factual. ••The purpose of the ministerial statement if to convey info=ation, not to encourage debate." And, Mr.

Speaker, the han. gentleman just made an inflammatory politic statement, a rebuttal to an editorial in The Evening Telegram, that did not convey any information, but certainly did encourage debate. There seems to be a trend developing in the House and ministerial statements are being made now every day mainly to divert from the . real issues in the Province, the crisis in the fishery and so forth and so on, and r believe it is about time Your Honour took a hard look at these ministerial statements to see. if indeed the rules of this House are being abused by ministers. SO.ME . HON. MEMBERS: MR.

HICKEY: an apology. MR. SPEAKER: Services. Hear, hear~ Mr. Speaker, I wish to make The han. Minister of Social 595

March 11, 1983 Tape 257 PK - 3 MR. lUCKEY: I apologize very sincerely for my statement . It was long, I agree, and I apologize . But it was very factual,for which I do not apologize . SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, near!" MR . SPEAKER (~ussell) : Order, please! First of all ,the Cha ir would like to say that the point of order raised oy the hon . Minister of Social Services is not indeed a point of order. The Chair will certainly take under consideration ministerial statements . Torngat Mountains . MR. WARREN : Tne non . member for Mr. Spea .ker, the Auditor General mentioned a $4 million overpayment . The minister , 596

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 258 MJ - 1 MR. G. WARREN: has admitted that $1.6 million of it was over the past fiscal year. That $1.6 .million in rough calculation is around 33 per cent. It is surprising to find out that of that $4 million over the past twenty-five years, $1.6 million was for the past year. Now, Mr. Speak~r, I do not agree with the editorial either. As far as I am concerned the minister's department should take steps to write off a lot of these overpayments that were given to welfare recipients.

God knows under the present situation they are finding it difficult enough to get enough food to put on their tables. I believe that the minister should make every effort not to collect from those who are presently on social assistance, but to write off the overpayments, Mr. Speaker. I think that is the proper procedure to follow, and I might add, Mr. Speaker, that I have the highest regard for the staff of the minister's department. There is one problem, Mr. Speaker: they are overworked and underpaid. The minister needs more staff out in the field because many of those social workers, Mr.

Speaker, through no fault .of their own, are issuing welfare cheques without sufficient information. It is due to the fact that they are overworked and they cannot do the home visits, which are very, very important, and the minister has to agree with that. But the social workers out in the field do not have the opportunity, time and resources available to do horne visits to everyone on social assistance, and this is the cause of overpayments. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I again beg the minister to go to Cabinet and obtain permission to have them overpayments written off.

Next year let us hope that the Auditor General will not report overpayments of $4.5 million, that the Auditor General will report that the minister, for the sake of compassion and humanity, has forgiven many of 597

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 258 MJ - 2 MR . G . WARREN : th:>se on welfare and has written off the outstanding balances thatwere owed. Thank you very much . SOI-tE HO N. M&\1BERS : --------MR. SPEAKE~(RusselQ: Statements? MR. W . CALLAN: MR . S. NEARY: MR . SPEAKER (Russelll..:_ MR . NEARY: Hear , hear! Are there any other Ministerial We hope not, Mr . Speaker . ORAL QUESTIONS Mr . Speaker . The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Minister of Transpo rtation (Mr . Dawe) could give the House some information on the helicopter contract?

Are the bids in, have they been opened, who is the lowest bidder, etc .? Would the hon. gentleman tell us about the helicopter contract? MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR . DAWE: Mr. Speaker, there has been some discussion, I guess, publically about the fact that the tenders were opened on March 4. There 598

' .• March 11, 1983 Tape No. 259 MR. DAWE: were two options asked of people who were to bid on those tenders. One option was to bid on the five sites as a package. The other option was to bid on them individually and then government would decide which of the two scenarios would provide it with the best economies. It turned out when the bids were open that one company had actually the same price on both scenarios. It came in with the lowest tender bid on the package and it also came in with the lowest aggregate on the individual sites.

Government will decide in due course, as it does with all of its . contracts,when the awarding of the contract will be. As soon as it happens I will inform the han. gentleman. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Supplementary, the hen. Leader of the Opposit~on. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, what kind of a time span are we talking about for the awarding of the contracts? .tan the hon. gentleman indicate to the House \... at what time we can expect to.get th.e decision on who the successful tenderer was? SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: I would say, Mr.

Speaker, that will be in a matter of hours. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary, the h.on. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: r~. Speaker, r would presume then that the hen. gentleman is going to make th .e announcement today. MR.. SIMMS: Within forty-eight h.ouJ;"s .. 599

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 259 so - 2 MR. NEARY: The han. gentleman said hours so I am assuming from his answer it is today. Would the hon. gentleman indicate if there will be a clause written into the contract that Newfoundlanders will be employe~ by the successful helicopter company, Newfoundlanders will get preference if they are available for these jobs? Will that be one of the conditions of the contract? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. DAWE: The hon. Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, the employment of Newfoundlanders in the helicopter industry in this Province is a very high ratio.

As a matter of fact, all companies involved,especially with their pilots and mechanics and so on, have a very, very high percentage of Newfoundland working for them. And it has always been government's position that it would encourage this to continue to occur whenever possible. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman was very vague and evasive on that question. Perhaps the hon. gentleman did not understand the question.

The question was will it be written, will it be a condition, of the contract, one of the conditions of the agreement, that the successful company, whoever gets thi .s contract, will employ Newfoundland pilots, will employ Newfoundland mech.anics· if they are available? Will this I;>e w.ri tten into th .e. agreement? MR. SPEAKER: MR. DAWE: The han. Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, the position of this particular government has always been to advance local preference in the 600

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 260 NM - 1 MR. DAWE: employment field, particularly as it relates to employment of Newfoundlanders where they were qualified to do the job on the offshore, unlike members opposite who were against that particular policy of local employment. And it seems strange that all of a sudden now that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) would come forward with. that request. This government has always placed the employment of Newfoundlanders foremost in any of its discussions and contracts with anyone who provides government services, and we will continue to do so. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Just for the benefit of the han. gentleman, the members on this side of the House are not opposed to local preference. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh~ MR. NEARY: It is the hon. gentlemants friends, the NDP, who were opposed, if the han. gentleman will recall. It is the Premier's new buddies, the Premier's new socialist friend, the NDP. PREMIER PECKFORD: Good Newfoundlanders. MR. NEARY: Yes, good Newfoundlanders. That is right.

Well, I do not know about the Leader of the NDP whether he is a good Newfoundlander or not, but at least he is .living here. Now that the han. gentleman has befriended him, I do not know how they are going to reconcile the fact that the NDP are opposed to the government's local preference policy. But anyway I still did not get a straight answer from the han. gentleman. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 601

Mar ch 11 , 1983 Tape No. 260 MR . NEARY : Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman will have to work that out with Mr. Fenwick. PREMIER PECK.FORD: No problem. MR . NEARY : well, I hope there will be no problem. I could not think of two hen. gentlemen to get in bed together because I know who is going to come out on top. PREMIER PECKFORD: He might be the next Leader of the Opposition. N~l - 2 MR . NEARY : Mr • Speaker, if I could only see the han. Minister of Transportation over there.

Could the hen. gentleman tell the House if the court cases that have been initiated by Sealand IIelicopters, if these court cases will delay any awarding of t11e contrac .t? MR. SPEAKER (Russel'!) : The han. Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I have already indicated public].y, througll the media on a number of other occasions, that the indication by one of the contr .actors that it 602

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 261 MJ - 1 MR. R. DAWE: was going to take some legal action against the compan y which was the low bidder on the tender really has no bearing on the awarding of the contract. We will continue to award contracts based on the information and the advice from officials and the amount of money on a particular bid. MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell)_:_ A final suppl~mentary, Mr. Speaker. A fianl supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR.

NEARY: Would the hon. gentleman undertake to provide the House with the information on the number of bids, the amounts of each bid and any other information that he can lay on the table of the House in connection with this contract? MR. J. MORGAN: It was on television the other night. MR. NEARY Well, Mr. Speaker, I want in this House. I am so busy sometimes that I do not get the time to watch television. I am not like the han. gentleman.

The han. gentleman must be delighted now he will be able to get his free rides again, him and his sealing buddy, they will be able to go down to Argentia Saturday r mornings and have a look around. So, Mr. Speaker, would the han. gentieman undertake to lay this information on the table of the House at an early a date as possible ? MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: - The han. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I am somewhat reluctant to be a messenger or a secretary for the acting Leader of the Opposition (Mr. S.

Neary),but that information on March 4th was made public at a public opening of the particular tenders and all the various hourly rates and the package rates submitted by each of the 603

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 261 MJ - 2 MR. R. DAY-lE: companies that bid on the contract is full public knowledge. However, if the hon. gentleman does not have wherewithal or the time to do it 1 I will see it that before the House closes today, Mr. Speaker, that that information is available to the House. MR. G. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon~ the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey). SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order,please! MR. L. SIMMS: It is public. MR.

NEARY: The hon. gentleman does not understand the simple rudiments of the British Parliamentary procedure. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! I would like to remind hon. members that I have recognized the hon. the member for Torngat Mountains and he does have the right to be heard in silence. MR. WARREN: ----- - Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Social Services. In the Ministerial Statement the minister made earlier, he mentioned that his department on ocassion has paid light bills for welfare recipients.

Could the minister advise the approximate number of welfare recipients whom he has assisted in paying their light bills? I might add, Mr. Speaker, the reason I am asking this is that in my district alone there is roughly 35 to 40 per cent of the people on social assistance and their light bills range anywhere between $80 to $150 a month. I am just wondering if the minister is considering also 604

March 11,1983 Tape No. 262 ah-1 MR. WARREN: assisting those recipients who are finding it very, very difficult to live? MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Minister of Social Services. MR. HICKEY: Mr.Speaker, there is an amount contained in the welfare cheque, the social assistance cheque, covering the issue of utilities,and families are therefore expected to pay their light bills 1 as a first requirement 1as they would their rent, their mortgage or anything else. It is an essential expense and a very necessary one to deal with first.

There is no provision, no special provision in the regulations or in legislation to pay light bills per se. Out of the $1.6 million in the year 1981-82 that was under the heading of overpayment, 10 per cent of that is determined to have been for utilities or payment of light bills which created some very severe problems and severe hardships for families through cut-off notices. We will not pay a light bill per se.

The only time we will become involved in it is when in fact there is a cut-off notice or an actual cut-off, and then we will pay it as an emergency move , an emergency measure out of desperation and we have to recover the money over a span of time. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR.WARREN: That is the reason why I asked the minister the question, Mr. Speaker, because I am sure the minister left the impression with the media this morning that they were paying light bills for social assistance recipients which the ~1inister,I understand,has now clarified.

He has made it clear that all he is doing 605

·. March 11,1983 Tape No . 262 ah-2 MR .W ARREN: is making an advance and collectin g it afterwards . I would like to ask the minister a further question. This has come up in the last t\>~O years in correspondence between myself and the minister and it concerns a fuel allowance for Labrador residents. Now I understand that there is a measly $29 allowance.Now,$29 probably wou ld probably go a long way to alleviate the cost on the Island,bu t considering the harsh climate conditions in Labrador, and considering a client can only get four and a half days £rom one drum of fuel oil,which costs $97 1 606

March 11, 1983 Tape 263 PK - 1 MR. WARREN: I am just wondering is the minister considering, without letting any secrets out of the bag, an increase in the Budget for the fuel allowance for our Labrador recipients? MR. SPEAKER(Russell): Social Services. MR. HICKEY; The 'hon. Minister of Mr. Speaker, first of all let me concede the point to the hon. gentleman that his point about fuel costs in Labrador is a legitimate one, one that my department and I and indeed, the government have been concerned with -over the last few years.

I am sure he appreciates that we are near Budget time and I am not at liberty to state what is going to be in my colleagues Budget Speech. Let me say to him, however, that I have recognized the difficulty in Labrador with regards to fuel costs, so much so that in fact there is a special arrangement. I also acknowledge that that special arrangement probably does not cure all the ills or solve all of the problems.. I have taken that into account. What --ultimately will happen in the new fiscal year remains to be seen.

I will say one thing, that while the Province, like all other areas and all other provinces, is in a very difficult period of financial constraint, I am happy to _say that this government has shown its social conscience insofar as my department is concerned. There are Departments of Social Services, I suggest, in parts of the country receiving much worse treatment than this department in this government. MR. SP-EAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Simmsl 607

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 264 SD - 1 MR. WARREN: during the past number of years we have heard a lot of negativeness pertaining to Northern Labrador about the health conditions in Davis Inlet, about the lack of a water supply in Makkovic, about murders in Nain and so on. However, Mr. Speaker, it is worthy to note that Nain, a small community of less than 1,000 people, will be performing in the Newfoundland Drama Festival this year. I know .also, Mr.

Speaker, that it is going to cost somewhere in the vicinity of $5,000 to $7,000 to get those eleven actors and actresses, eight of whom are Inuit people, to perform in the Newfoundland Drama Festival. I am hesitant to ask this of the minister, but knowing that it is very difficult in a town of only 900 people to raise sufficient funds to participate in such a well-known drama festival, I am just wondering if the minister could arrange some transportation, probably through government charter rates or government aircraft available at the time to bring some of those contestants into St.

John's to perform in the Drama Festival. MR. SPEAKER: Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: The hon. Minister of Culture, Mr. Speaker, I am well aware of the request that the hon. member is now making in the House because, of course, as he is aware, we discussed it yesterday. First of all I want to congratulate the drama group from Nain. It is a very significant thing for them to be appearing in the provincial Drama Festival and, as a matter of fact, it is my intention, hopefully, to attend that particular evening to see their performance.

As we discussed yesterday outside the House, I am prepared to discuss the matter with my colleague, the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and 608 ....

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 264 SD - 2 MR. SIMMS: Northern Development (Mr. Goudie) to see if there is some way in which we may be able to assist. We do provide some assistance,or we did last year at least, to the provincial Drama Festival Association to assist in some travel. As the hon. member is aware, we have no specific programme to assist individual drama groups of that nature, out I will undertake to discuss the matter further with my colleague, the minister, who is a very sincere individual himself and I am sure he would want to do all he can to support a request of that nature. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr.

Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell).: Supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Public Works CMr. Young1 but he is not in his seat. Most of the ministers seem to be out of the House. r do not know if they have another emergency Cabinet meeting or a Planning and Priorties meeting so I will direct my question to the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins-t. Would the han. gentleman inform the House under what authority funds have been allocated 609

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 265 NM - l MR. NEARY: to rent an apartment on behalf of the government in Tiffany Place? Would the han. gentleman tell us what the authority is for that? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware that any funds have been paid out to rent an apartment in Tiffany Place. MR. SPEAKER: The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I did not ask the han. gentleman if any funds had been paid out~ I asked the han. gentleman under what authority the government has allocated funds. I presume they will have to pay rent.

I presume there is furniture in the apartment, drapes, etc., and so forth and so on, the bills will be coming in. So is the han. gentleman saying that the government has no authority to spend money for rental at Tiffany Place; that we will have to wait until the budget is brought down before we get a subhead for renting an apartment on behalf of the taxpayers of this Province in Tiffany Place? Is there authority to spend money or is there not authority? That is the question I am asking the han. gentleman. MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, the Department of Public Works and Services is, shall we say, the renter for government departments. In most instances government departments do not rent under their own authority. I do not know if there are exceptions to that rule, there may well be, but by and large the Department of Public Works and Services rents government departments and that authority is there and that allocation is there. So if the Department of Public Works and Services feels it is appropriate, and if it is desirable to rent space for itself or for any other department, 610

March 11, 19 .83 Tape No. 265 NM- 2 DR. COLLINS: or for any other branch of government, it has the authority to do so and I am sure we will carry out its duties and it sees fit. MR . NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell} : MR. NEARY: ~tr. Speaker, a supplementary. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. I am not sure I understand the answer the han. gentleman gave me·to my question. The question I am asking the hon. gentleman i.s is there authority at this moment to spend taxpayer money, to spend funds on Tiffany Pl,ace, either for rent or renova .tions or drapes or furniture or anything else?

Is there a subhead, is there an authority, to spend money on rental at Tiffany Place for an apartment for the Premier? MR. SPEAEER: The han. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, there is no limitation on where the Depa±.tment of Public Works and Services' may rent space if it feels that it is in the best interest of the operations of government to rent space. It can rent space in Tiffany Place, or Atlantic Place; or ~Y other building ~n the city,or outside the city. 'l'here is no limitation on that and the Department of 611

March 11,1983 Tape 266 PK - 1 DR. COLLINS: Public Works and Services is at liberty to see where it should house whatever part of government needs to be housed in rental space, if the government does not own space for it . It will sort of validate its authority to do so by referring its recommendation appropriately either to Treasury Board or to the Lieutenant­ Governor in Council. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell}: Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, on a supplementary. The ·hon. Leader of the Mr.

Speaker, I beg to differ with the han. gentleman, but I will debate that at another time about whether or not the Department of Public Works have a standing authority to rent space. Mr. Speaker, in my opinion, renting an apartment fo~ the Premier is unprecedented. This is a new precedent.

I would doubt very much if there is a subhead to pay out any taxpayer money that lias not been approved by this House, and I doubt very much if the Lieutenant­ Governor would issue a warrant, because warrants are only issued in cases of an emergency, and I do not believe shelter for the Premier can be placed in the category of an emergency at this time. so I am asking the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) . to assure this House that no funds will be spent on the rental of space- not office space ., not space for a museum; this is an apartment, this is unheard of and it is unprecedented - that taxpayer money will not be spent for an apartment for the Premier until such time as ' the estimates are passed in this House. And, Mr. Speaker, I might say that it is also wrong for the han. gentleman to commit himself,for the government to commit themselves to spending in a new Budget that has not even been introduced in this House yet. The President of the Council (Mr.Marshalll knows 612

March 11, 1983 Tape 266 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: that that is unconstitutional and wrong. They cannot commit themselves to spending in next year's estimates. So, Mr. Speaker, I want the hon. gentleman to assure the House that there will be no spending of taxpayer money on this apartment until such time as the matter is resolved before this House. MR. SPEAKER (Russell}_: The han. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, there are two points there.

I certainly can assure the House and the people of this Province that no public nonies will be spent by this government unless they are properly spent and decided to be properly spent That does not only go for rental space,it goes for all expenditures from the public purse. ' I would like to make one correction to the han. Leader of the Opposition ''s (lvlr. Nearyl statement. He said that we. cannot precornmit in one ye'7r for the next year"'s Budget. I would remind the hon.

Leader of the Opposition that we passed an ru~endment - I believe it was in the last session; it may have been in the session before that- that it does indeed allow government to precornmit funds if it is considered desirable and necessary to do so. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Did he not vote for it? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: My . question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Cultural, Recreation and Youth. It concerns a programme that they have to encourage communities in this Province to get involved in sports, and it provides financial aid when they become 6-13

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 267 NM - 1 MR. HISCOCK: involved in championships. The ladies' broomball team in Cartwright, Labrador has come in second in the past two years in the provincial champion- ships. This year they finished in first place as ladies' broornball champions in this Province, and they have now been invited to a broornball competition for the Atlantic region in Grand Falls, New Brunswick. They have received aid up to this point, but, now that they are going to and can compete in the regional Atlantic finals, they are not receiving any aid from the provincial government.

Can the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth explain why they are not receiving any financial aid? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, it is not accurate to say we do not provide any financial aid to Broomball Newfoundland because we do. We support all sports govern- ing bodies. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: We support them substantially, as a matter of fact, but we have no programme to provide assistance to individual teams. They must deal with their sports governing body to whom we provide support.

But I might say we also have provided, as a matter of fact, a substantial amount of money to assist the National Ladies' Broornball Tournament which is being held in Corner Brook. MR. BAIRD: And the Men's. MR. SIMMS: And the Men's National Broomball Tournament whi~h is being held in Corner Brook during the next month. So it is not fair to indicate that we do not provide any assistance to Broomball Newfoundland or teams from Broomball Newfoundland. 6l4

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 267 NM - 2 MR. WARREN: He did not say that! MR. SIMMS: The answer is clearly we do not have an individual programme to support individual teams. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, if the minister had been paying attention, the Province has already helped the ca.rtwright - Forteau team to compete in the Newfoundland regional broomball team championship, which it won. It came in first place in St. Anthony with other teams in this Province.

Now that they have earned the right to represent the Province in the Atlantic finals in Grand Falls, New Brunswick, the Province is no longer providing any financial aid to allow them to go and compete for the Atlantic championship. I would like to know why we are encouraging them to go so far - here is the team that won the championship of this Province - yet we no longer assist them to go to Grand Falls, New Brunswick, for the Atlantic region finals? MR. SPEAKER: Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: The hon. the Minister of Culture, ·- Mr.

Speaker, tqe hon. member indicated that I was not listening but I certainly was listening. The fact that they got financial assistance at the outset was because they got it through their sports governing body which individual teams have to deal with. I am aware of all kinds of individual teams in this Province who are participating in various tournaments from all over the country everywhere, Atlantic Provinces, provincial-wide and so on. In fact, my colleague for Burin - Placentia West (Mr.

Tobin} just pointed out to me that the men's slow pitch so£tball team last year won the right to represent the area at a particular tournament · 615

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 268 MR. SH1MS: and they went out and raised $20,000 or $25,000 on their own, and many individual teams do that. But we provide financial assistance to the SD - 1 sports governing bodies; the individual teams must deal with the sports governing bodies to seek further assis~ance. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : member for Eagle River. Hear, hear. Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Final supplementary, the han. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, I am quite aware that they have to go through the sports governing body that is funded by this Province.

A community of less than 700 people is not in a position, as the member said about Nain and the Drama Festival, to raise that amount of money. Here, Mr. Speaker, they are raising money and will do their part. All they are asking is for the provincial government to at lease come up with 50 per cent and provide some funding. They get them so far and entice them to compete, which they have, and now that they want to go to the Atlantic Regional Championships they cannot do it.

And ·I feel that is unjust to the people not only in Cartwright but any other region that competes and is asked to go on to a national competition. MR. WARREN: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) I would like to ask a question of the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall). Mr. Speaker, the question to the President of the Council is that if there is a programme in force that has as requirements for a fisherman to obtain financing that he must be a full-time fisherman and must be a resident 616

March 11 1 1983 Tape No . 268 so - 2 MR. NARREN: of Labrador - this is the inshore fishing gear prograrnme 1 on page 11 - and the minister is part of a team that is supposed to be lilly white 1 I would just like to ask the minister how he could go along with fishermen from the Island portion of this Province availing themselves of the money under this programme? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon . President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker 1 I want to assure the hon . member that this is a lilly white administration and I also want to assure the hon. member that we want to be quite sure that 617

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 269 MJ - 1 MR. W. MARSHALL: we are accurate with our answers. I have to confess that I do not know the exact response to know but I will see that it is looked into and we will get a response for it. MR. G. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR . WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, seeing that the minister has agreed to look into the matter, I would just like to advise the minister that it has come to my attention t~at six fishermen that I know of, fiv.e from Carbonear and one from Harbour Grace, have received approval from the minister's department to obtain money under this Inshore Fishing Gear Programme.- So I would like to ask the minister if, as he says, they are a lily-white government, let him show how this money is allotted for the Labrador fishermen and not for the Newfoundland fishermen. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. Order, please!

The hon. the President of the I did not hear the han. gentleman mentioning the nice flag on the book. Has he got one in his lapel? They voted against it, I know, but I think ~hey will agree now as I must agree it looks very nice. Again I will have to take that under advisement. I have to tell the hon. gentleman that just as we are quite concerned that everybody in Newfoundland be treated equally, that people in Labrador be treated equal with the people on the Island portion. So we want really generally speaking that the people on the Island portion be treated the same.

I want to understand this, I take notice of the question, but am I 618

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 269 MJ - 2 MR. W. MARSHALL: to assume - now it may be because I misinterpret the hon. gentleman --but he is not complaining about fishermen getting assistance from Harbour Grace and Carbonear? MR. G. WARREN: The programme. MR. MARSHALL: Oh, the programme. You are not complaining about the fishermen in Harbour Grace or St. Mary's or anywhere else around. MR. WARREN: MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : expired. No, no. That is fine. Order, please! The time for Question Period has ANSWERS TO QUESTI ONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS~EEN GIVEN MR. L. SIMMS: MR. SPEAKER: Recreation and Youth. MR.

SIMMS: · Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of Culture, Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the ~nswer to a question posed by my friend, the hon. the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren 1, which appeared on the Order Paper of March 10, Question No. 10, in four parts. The first question: "What is the population _of the caribou herd in Labrador?" Our answer is that the best estimate we have is about 300,000. "What is the population on the Island portion of the province?" The best estimate we have is 35,000.

"Has the caribou population increased or decreased in recent years?" The caribou popultion has increased in recnet years. "How many Wildlife Officers are in force protecting the various caribou herds?'' Forty - six permanent officers. MR. WARREN : Not enough. 619

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 269 MJ - 3 MR. L. SIML'1S: I agree . I would like to have 246. You give us the money \ole will do it . MR . J. DINN: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER (Russel l): The han . the Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, in answer to a question . put on the Order Paper by the han . the member for Lapoile (Mr . Neary), Tuesday, March 8th, Question No . 2 and it deals with the offshore . The question was posed to the Minister of Energy (Mr . Dawe), w!lo is the minister two ministers to my left, and not the Minister responsible for the Petroleum Dhectorate (Mr.

Marshall), who is the minister directly in front of me and one to the left, but not to me, who, as Minister of Labour and Manpower, the 620

March 11,1983 Tape No. 270 ah-1 MR.DINN: question should have been posed to in the first place. MR. SIMMS: Hear, hear! MR.DINN: And, Mr. Speaker, I think I should go through the questions one at a time. How many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are currently employed on offshore drilling rigs? Well, Mr.Speaker, the number of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians currently employed is 451. The number of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians currently employed on supply vessels is 121. Other; includes seismic, onshore service contractors, staff,etc., 372 for a total of 944.

The han. member for Torngat (Mr.Warren)· is really picking up on it lately. MR.SIMMS: He is a good adder. A good adder-upper. MR.DINN: (

c) Since January 1,1978 it is estimated - this is the answer to how many people worked since January 1,1978- it is estimated, and you cannot keep total track of this because people go on a rig and come of a rig and go on another one and then go on and come of and stay of and work on shore, but it is a fair estimate that 3,700 different Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have had exposure working for the oil industry on the East coast. MR.NEARY: An average of 600 per year.

MR.DINN: The han. member will remember that in 1978 there was no one working offshore because the oil companies at that tirne,with their threat,picked up their rigs and went horne. So there was no one in 1978. And if the han. member now wants to divide, L~e han. member for Torngat can do it quite easily, 621

March 11,1983 MR.DINN: quite well. MR . SIMMS: and a better divider. Tape No. 270 ah -2 and has been following it He is a better adder-upper MR. DINN: These have had experience working for industry £or periods of several days to several years. (

d) of the hon. member's question on the Order Paper of that day, what positions do Newfoundlanders occupy? I guess he is getting at something there, there is some information the hon .member wants. But (

d) Newfoundlanders of Newfoundland and Labrador have occupied such senior positions as 622

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 271 SD - 1 MR. DINN: assistant rig superintendents, toolpushers, drillers, assistant drillers, derrickmen and all the junior positions from thereon down. MR. SIMMS: Read them all. MR. DINN: Well,! would read them all, Mr Speaker, but I think that would be wasting the time of the House. The hon. member can have that information if he wants it. MR. NEARY: anyway, are you not? MR. DINN: You are going to table that (.el What is the general tenure of employment of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians on th.ese rigs and vessels? Mr.

Speaker, as per general tenure of employment for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians on these rigs and vessels, the employment has been relatively stable with the exception of seasonal rigs. The hon. member may be aware that we have rigs that are out there on a more or less permanent basis and rigs that come over and drill off the Labrador. Last year we had three drill rigs off Labrador.

Even on these drilling units, the ones off Labrador, we have negotiated for ninety of these positions to be permanent~ In other words, Newfoundlanders who go on these rigs,when the rig moves to off the Coast of Spain or some other place they keep Newfoundlanders on it and we negotiate on that basis. With. the year-round rigs, all Newfoundland and Labrador positions are permanent. In other words, th.e ones who would be working on the Hibernia field. The turnover-· rates_ of res.idents of this· Province have been very favourable with less than one per cent per month turnover on th.e year-·round rigs.

On the seasonal rigs, one rig ha,s reported, rig operators, that the turnover of Newfoundlanders and Labra.dorians an th.ese rigs, tha ones that move out of our waters, the ones that work over the 120 day charters. 623

March 11, 19 83 Tape No. 271 so - 2 MR. DINN: and ninety charters, etc., the turnover rate is about 8.2 per cent as compared to their worldwide operation which is about 12.7 per cent. So Newfoundlanders are fairing very well in that area. So, Mr. Speaker, I table the information for the hon. me.Ll.ber opposite, the information that he asked for. I note on the Order Paper of that day that he was not worried about Burin, Ramea, Gaultois. We went through Question Period today - the same thing, no questions on the fishery. But I Will supply 624

March 11, 1983 Tape 272 PK - 1 MR. DINN: the information on the offshore, apparently he is very interested in that. MR. SH1MS: A good answer. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. Minister of Rural, Agriculture and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, in response to a question placed on the Order Paper, I think on Tuesday past,by the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren), the cost of the construction of a lodge on the Voisey River­ actually it is FraP.:~·s Brook which flows into Voisey Bay in Northern Labrador - from fiscal year 1972-1973 to 1975-1976 the total cost was $194,915.

Where did the funds come from to cover the cost of construction? Government funding under the federal/provincial Native Peoples Agreement. And what is the present status of the lodge? Is it privately owned and operated,or is it publicly owned and operated by his Department? referring to my Department. It is being maintained by a caretaker staff. It is not being used cornrnerically.

It is maintained or it was maintained by this department until the 31st. of March 1983, and possibly may be turned over to another department of government, I do not know at this point in time, but that will be decided in the budgetary process. • And for the information of all of my colleagues on this side of the House, Mr.

Speaker, who do not know where Voisey Bay is or know what the lodge is like, it was built initially,beginning in 1972-1973,under Native Peoples funding to serve as a training programme for Native Peoples in Labrador who wish to become involved in the operation of sports fishing camps, guiding, ownership of sports fishing camps etc. etc. etc. And in response to an oral question yesterday from the same han. gentleman, the gentleman 625

March 11, 1983 Tape 272 -PK -2 MR. GOUDIE: representing Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren), whether or not· the Hudson's Bay Company representatives who are travelling in Coastal Labrador ta have a look at the five retail outlets that we operate up there, whether or not they were travelling on a government chartered aircraft, the answer is, yes, Mr.-speaker. They were travelling on a government chartered aircraft , just coincidentallY~In many cases ~he way the hon. gentleman for Torngat Mountains coincidentially shows up in Labradorwhen we aretravelling to the coast and offer him a ride1 we offered the- MR.

WARREN: What? MR. GOUDIE: Yes, just occasionally. Just occasionally. MR. DINN: Never let that happen again. MR. GOUDIE: Okay. Representatives of the H~dson's Bay Company travelled along the Coast of Labrador, they returned to Goose Bay last evening. And I should point out as well, Mr. Speaker, if any other group of people or firm or company wishes to have a look at the facilities around the North Coast of Labrador, if government decides to dispose"itself of these facilities,then they will be offered the same opportunity. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. DAWE: MR. SPEAKER: MR.

DAWE: Hear, hear! 0 0 0 Are there any others? Mr. Speaker. The hon. Minister of Transportation. To the oral question the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) asked a little earlier as it relates to the various helicopter bids. MR. SIMMS: You have the answer already. 626

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 273 IB-1 MR. DAWE: I have the answers here and I will table them. I might point out 1in looking at this, you will reme~er that the bids went out two ways, one as a package for the five sites allocated and the other is individually. MR. NEARY: awarding of the contracts now? MR. DAWE: not. MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) : Answers to Questions to be tabled? Are you announcing the No, most certainly Are there any other PRESENTING PETITIONS: MR. SPEAKER: The non. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR.

MCLENNON: Mr, Speaker, on behalf of 5,636 residents of Central Newfoundland I would like to present the following petition to this hon. House. The petition reads as follows: "We, the people of the Central Newfoundland area are very concerned over recent layoffs at the Central Newfoundland Regional Health Center. We fear such action could result in reduced health care service at the center,and would be to the detriment of the citizens of Central Newfoundland and,indeed, the entire area ·served by the institution.

We ask the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to respond to these concerns by not implementing cutbacks in the health care field•. Mr. Speaker, before the petition is tabled I would like to go on record as supporting the prayer of the petition. In recent months I have met with representatives of all the unions of the hospital and fully realize their concerns. I also believe that this government realizes the concerns of all 627

March 11, 19 83 Tape No. 273 IB-2 MR. MCLENNON: hospital workers. I firmly believe that this government realizes that the health care is a top priority for all people of this Province and will do all within their power to see that the high standard of health care we now enjoy continues. I now ask that this pet.ition be tabled and directed to the department concerned. MR. SPEAKER {AYLWARD ·) : Opposition. MR. NEA RY: ·The hon. Leader of .the Mr.

Spe aker, we support the petition presented on behalf of fifty,..six hundred and some-odd people in Central Newfoundland who are concerned about the cut back in health care services in that area. I never cease to be amazed, Mr. Speaker, at how hon. gentlemen can present a petition cond~ing and criticizing the administration,and reprimanding the administration, and still sit there and support that a(lministratim:l. I never cease to be amazed by this. I never cease to be amazed at the hypocrisy - MR. SIMMS: The prayer did not do that. MR.

NEAR Y : The pra yer certain ly di d do it, cond emn ed and cr itici zed and repr imanded the 628

March 11, 1982 Tape No. 274 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: government for cutting back medical health services in the Central Newfoundland area and begged the government not to have any further cutbacks. And, Mr. Speaker, that same hon. gentle~an will sit there - MR. TOBIN: MR. CALLAN: MR. SPE~ER (Aylward) : MR. NEARY: This is a democratic party. .This is a brainwashed party. Order, please! Order, please: Mr. Speaker, these hon. gentlemen who present petitions will support the very same government who will spend $1 million or a couple of million dollars of taxpayer money to buy an obsolete tracking statio~ at Shoe Cove. Mr.

Speaker, I have a feeling that in the upcoming budget we are going to see some severe cuts in medical care treatment in this Province, especially in hospital beds. I heard the Administrator of the Health Science Complex,yesterday, being interviewed on radio 1 saying that if they do not get the money that they have requested this year, they will have to have further cutbacks and closed beds.

So I hope the hon. gentleman when the budget comes down, if there are any further cuts in Central Newfoundland, the hon. gentleman will have the courage of his convictions, he just said he supports the petition, that he will stand in his place in this House and condemn the government, condemn the administration which he is supporting, and possibly move over across the House, not necessarily with us, Mr. Speaker, but down where I used to be there in 1978. MR. BAIRD: I am close enough to you now. MR. NEARY: If the hon. gentleman has the courage of his convictions that is what he would do, Mr.

Speaker, if ,,there are any further cuts in the next fiscal year. They cannot afford any more cuts in Central Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker. And I know that hon. members are becoming dis- 629

March 11, 1983 Tape No . 274 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: gruntled, the backbenchers on that side of the House are becoming disgrunt -led. MR. SIMMS: Not half as disgruntled as the - MR. NEARY: It reminds me of what I read about the Monroe Administration. The Monroe Administration came into power in this Province - MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): A point of order. The han. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: I fail to see what the history of the Monroe Administration has to do with this -petition. I suggest to you, Your Honour, that the han. member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary}, and the teader of the Opposition, is being totally irrelevant and not containing himself to th~ material alleqations contained in the petition. MR. YOUNG: Right on. MR. SPEAKER: I agree with t~e point of order. I wish toremind the han. Leader of the Opposition that he has to refer to the prayer of the petition. SOME RON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, I support the prayer of the petition. I think the number one priority for our people should be health care service .

There should be no tampering or monkeying or cutbacks in the health care services in this Province, shutting down clinics and shutting down hospital beds and laying off hospital staff and nurses when we saw this morning, Mr. Speaker, a blatant example of abuse - of taxpayer money just so the Premier can prove a point, wasting $1 Eillion on an obsolete tracking station in Shoe Cove. :rvm. ~ ~EAKER: The han. member for St. Mary's- The Capes. 'SOME" m:m -.: MEMBERS : Hear, hear! 630

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 274 NM - 3 MR. HEARN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to present a petition on behalf of approximately 300 residents of the 631

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 275 MR. HEARN: Colinet, North Harbour, Harricott area. The prayer of the petition: IB-1 ''We, the undersigned, do hereby petition the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador for the upgrading and paving of the road between North Harbour and Colinet, from Colinet through Harricott to Mount Carmel and between Colinet and the Salmonier Line·~ I might add, Your Honour, that the petition is supported by myself. I would also like to add that the area we are talking about is approximately only fifty miles from St. John's.

It is an area which consists of completely gravel roads ,or perhaps I should say, excuse for roads . This is not the only area of the district of St. Mary's-The Capes where we have road problems. I pointed out many times last year that we have in our area approximately lSO miles, exactly it is between l40 and lSO miles of dirt road. This immediate area that we are concerned with today that the prayer of the petition covers, the roads in that area ·are atrocious. They are roads travelled over by school kids each morning.

The distance from North Harbour to Mount Carmel is such that when the roads are soft,as happens quite often during the Spring in particular.and we have had many occasions this · Winter, we have students who travel that area by bus from Grade l up who spend up to an hour and forty minutes on the bus one way. So to think that children should have to spend an hour and forty minutes on the bus getting to school and another hour and forty minutes getting home, children who are six and seven and eight years of age and upwards 1 it is terrible to think that it is happening in this day and age. 632

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 275 IB-2 MR. HEARN: In case I am accused of criticizing the government,I would like to point out that in the past ten years in this district 126 miles of pavement have been laid by this government in a district where in the years that preceded the P.C. administration absolutely no pavement was laid, not an inch. I would also like to make it quite clear that the problems I am discussing here this morning,that will be discussed later on today,are quite familiar to the Minister of Transportation CMr.

Dawe} who has been in the area, covered every inch of the roads concerned,and is quite familiar with them. I look forward to hearing his comments. Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (AYLWARD) : Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: I now table the petition, The hon. the member for Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, whenever the . .ie is a petition presented in this hon. House on behalf of residents who are crying out for improved or oaved roads,I cannot help but feel sympathetic toward them.

Because, as I have said so often before, in my own particular district there are still - and it is more than fifty miles but not much more than fifty miles out of St. John's, but there are approximately forty miles of unpaved roads. Markland,which is another way that the people from North Harbour and so on can get out of St. Mary's-The Capes, thev can come down through Markland but,of course, they· would gain nothing in the venture. It would be an adventure for them to drive out over the seven miles 633

March ll, 1983 Tape No. 276 JV- l MR. CALLAN: of the Markland Road, which is one of the worst roads in the province. The Minister of Recreation, Culture and Youth(Mr.Simms) was talking about getting ~ cabin out there last year. I do not know if he got it or not,but I was hoping that he would succeed so that he would also try and bring some pressure on the Cabinet, on government and on his colleague who is sitting at his left, to try and get an improved and a paved road for the people of Markland.

The people in Hillview and the people in Hodge's Cove and Little Heart's Ease and so on, of course, are other examples of the people in my district who annually, every Summer, are exposed to the continual dust problem and, of course, all year round exposed to the po~hole problem - MR. BRETT: MR. CALLAN: Do you want a bridge by any chance? If we get any new bridges in the district of Bellevue they will not be RC Brett bridges, they will be UC Callan bridges or Anglican Callan bridges or something. Mr.

Speaker, as I said, I hope and I speak sincerely, that the member, that his effort~ here today will not fall on deaf ears and I hope,for the benefit of the people in North Harbour, I have a North Harbour in my district as well, down right next to Swift Current in Bellvue, but, I hope that the people in North Harbour and the surrounding areas do get an improved road system and pavement this Summer. I rather doubt it. I will be interested in hearing what the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) will have to say, because I might add that within the next couple of weeks, I have been informed at least, that there is a petition being circulated in my district now and that I will be 634

Ma rc h ll, ~9 8 3 Tape No . 2 76 JV - 2 MR. CALLAN: asked to present it on behalf of my constituents. I think it is particularly i-n the Hillview area, and ,of course,$500,000 would do the job, a couple of miies of pavement from the TCH. -Hillview is off the TCH and I hope that they will get their pa;venent, and r will be presenting their petition in the next couple of weeks. I trust when the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) stands that he will support that petition.

But 1 I also hope and pray that when he does support it, he will be saying - "What we will be doing will be paving and improving roads on a priority bases and not on political basis". And, I am sure that the member for Twillingate (MrS.-Reid),who has just left her seat 1will be looking for improved road conditions on Twillingate Island and New World Isl~d,where I had the privilege of spending some tirne,because I know, down there, they have the same problems that we have in St. ~ry' s­ The Capes, in Bellvue and, of course, 635

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 277 MR. CALLAN: in other - not the strong Tory districts, Mr. Speaker. They do not have these problems in Grand Falls where they have everything. Of course, the Tory philosophy is - MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! MR. CALLAN: - and . I will tell about the Tory philosophy some other time, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR. CALLAN: I support the petition and support the member in his efforts. SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER: MR. DAWE: The hon. Minister of Transportation. Mr.

Speaker, first of all, I would like to indicate that I indeed support the petition so ably pre sen ted by my coll ·eague the member for St. Mary's - the Capes (~. Hearnl. SOME RON. MEMBERS : Hear 1 hear. MR. DAWE: I would not like to say that there is a member on this side of the House who has not worked as hard in representing his district,but I" certainly would say that there is not a member who has : worked any· harder - MR. SIMMS: Right on. __ MR. DAWE: - on behalf of the members of his district as · the member for st. Mary's - The capes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. DAWE: Mr.

Speaker, on numerous · occasions ·, if not daily in some cases., the member has contacted me concerning road problems · and road conditions in his district. As a matter of fact, on two occas ·ions I went with _ him through his district,and only as recently as a couple of weeks ago attended a puhli.c meeting in North Harbour to discuss · just thi .s p_arti.cular issue. And I look forward to - ' 636

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 277 SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. DAWE: - later on this morning when I will be able to view a video presentation prepared by the Development Association. And, Mr. Speaker, going back to some comments earlier on today, this is another example of the very worthwhile and quality work that development associations around this Province are doing. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. DAWE: Mr.

Speaker, agreements structured some years ago that have proved very, very successful over the years, such as th .e development associations, their proven ability to perform much needed work and to garner funding when available from various sources in their community has : been very evident. SD - 2 And it is unfortunate that not only in the area of development associations as well as in the areas of fish.eries, as well as · any other particular resource development that we can mention, that the funding that we deserve as Canadians has not been forthcoming from the federal government in Ottawa.

Mr. (3peaker, this is ver:y· true as well in the road sector. In previous years through agreements _through the Department of DREE, this Province was able to take advantage, as other Canadi_ans. have through the years, of developing some of its s·econdary road systems through . support from the feder-al De.partment of DREE.

Since that particular thing has dried up in more ways than one, that DREE has · now- disappeared, it has put an additional responsibility on the Province to not only try to de:> the major trunk roads · and to keep them in necess ·ary repair, but also to take care of the ve~y ma .ny needs.· I do not think, Mr. Speaker, any particular area of the . 637

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 277 MR. DMiE : Province is more deserving or more overdue for some road improvements than the people represented by this petition today. MR. SU1MS: Hear, hear . MR . DAWE : And this Province is trying SD - 3 to the best of its financial ability to meet the obligations to the people o~ this Province for a very rural and spread out part of the courtry, and we need the kind of support from the federal government as it relates to the construction of roads as other parts of the country have received trrough the years. .- 638

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 278 MJ - 1 MR. R. DAWE: We have not attained any kind of a standard comparative to other Canadians and we wish legitimately to do that as equal Canadians in ' a Canadian society that says we should have that right. Mr. Speaker, we will be doing everything 'we can with the resources that we have available to meet the prayer of this petition and to address the concerns of the people of North Harbour and the surrounding areas. I look forward to viewing their presentation a little later in the morning and I will be speaking with them further. SOME HON .• MEMBERS :_ MR.

SPEAKER (Aylward)...!_ MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! Another petition? Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to present a petition on behalf of 229 residents on the Southside of White Bay who are complaining and concerned about the Newfoundland Hydro hiring policy on the Cat Arm Project. Mr. Speaker, I would like to read the prayer of the petition and then I will elaborate on it. I might say that I ~ supporting the petition wholeheartedly.

I have had numerous complaints, my colleagues, my office have been swamped with complaints from residents in the area who were led to believe that they were going to get preference on the Cat Arm Project, that the business people in the area were led to believe that they were going to get the preferential treatment when it came to supplying gasoline and fuel oil etc. and they have been tremendously let down, they are awfully disillusioned,and they are so angry about the hiring practices of the Newfoundland Hydro and this government that they decided to circulate a petition and asked me to present it in the House today, which I feel very honoured and privileged to do, Mr.

Speaker. 639

March 11, 1983 Tape No. 278 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: It says, 'We,the undersigned citizens of Westport,do hereby petition the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to investigate on our behalf the hiring practices of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro at the Cat Arm project. We have been informed by contractors at the Cat Arm project site that preference in hiring will be based on where a person lives rather than on his or her qualifications.

It seems that people living on the South Side of White Bay, even though in the same electoral district, will not be given an equal hiring opportunity as those living in White Bay North. We feel this is discrimination and we therefore request intervention.' Now, Mr. Speaker, these are pretty serious allegations and pretty serious charges. It would seem to me that the South Side of White Bay is being discriminated against because of the way they vote, because of their politics. That is what it seems. MR. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: Arm, Jackson's Arm. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: Where is this, in Baie Verte-White Bay?

It is in Westport, it is in Sops That is in Baie Verte-White Bay, is it not? It is in the hon. the member for Baie Vete -White Bay's (Mr. Rideout) district. Mr. Speaker, the people of Jackson's Arm, Sops Arm and Hampden -640

March 11,1983 Tape No. 279 ah-1 MR.NEARY: and Hampden. MR. SIMMS: No, that is in Wallace's district, the Humber Valley and that part of it - MR.NEARY: I see. Well,anyway, Mr. Speaker-MR. SIMMS: They both voted Tory anyway. MR.NEARY: No, they did not. So, anyway, Mr. Speaker, I am not going to argue with the han. gentleman,but these people feel they are being discriminated against and I think they are quite justified in the way they feel. They were led to believe in the beginning that they would get the preference when it came to hiring for this hydro project.

I understand also, Mr.Speaker, that a large number of worker~ on both the Upper Salmon and the Cat Arm project were brought in from the Mainland. And , Mr.Speaker, here is how the contractors get around the local preference regulations: They put together the ·dykes and so forth in sections in Montreal or on the Mainland, they do all the concrete work and they do all the reinforcing on the Mainland and ship it down on low-beds and on tractor trailers. MR. SIMMS: That is why we want control over the offshore so we can build · concrete platforms h~re too. It is the same thing·:- MR.NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I will deal with that at a later date. But that is happening,so there is no real employment opportunities for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians on these projects. And is it any wonder that these people are disillusioned and discouraged and upset with the government's hiring practices on the Cat Arm project,and angry with Newfoundland Hydro for building up their hopes and 641

March 11,19 83 Tape No. 279 ah-2 MR. NEARY: expectations and then letting the people down? Two hundred and twenty-nine people signed this petition complaining about this practice. And I hope, Mr.Speaker, that when I lay the petition on the table of the House - MR. Srl-lMS: Does your information tell you if there is anybody from the White Bay South area working on the project? MR.NEARY: Wel1,I can only go on the letter that accompanied the petition. Mr. Speaker, I hope when I lay the petition on the table of the House and it is referred to the appropriate department,which I presume is the Minister of Energy (Mr.

Windsor), the han. gentleman will grant the prayer of the petition and have a thorough investigation made into the hiring practices of Newfoundland Hydro as far as the Cat Arm project is concerned. MR.SPEAKER (Aylward): The han. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR.DINN: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I know many of the people in the White Bay area. I have visited Westport myself several years ago, a very good community. I do not really understand what the han. Leader of the Opposition is getting on with. One would think that it is the closest thing to the height of hypocrisy that anyone would hear to hear the han.

Leader of the Opposition stand in his place in this House and talk about local preference 1when he stood in his place in this House and was against local preference offshore. He asked questions about local preference offshore on the Order Paper of the 8th, and I answered those questions this morning 1 about the number 642

March 11,1983 Tape No. 279 ah-3 MR.DINN: of Newfoundlanders and what their qualifications were, Mr. Speaker, and now he is up presenting a petition with respect to the Hinds Lake operation and the Cat Arm operation where we do have local preference ~nd we attempt to hire as many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians as we can on those projects. 643

March 11, 1983 Tape 280 PK - 1 MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, the Cat Arm project cannot 1obviously, look after the unemployment situation of all the people in all of Newfoundland and Labrador. But it has done a great job. I believe they peaked out on the Cat Arm project only last year at somewhere around 800 people working on the Cat Arm project. And,Mr.

Speaker, we did the same thing with respect to the Hinds Lake project, where we had local preference,and we had some people from Buchans and some people from all over the Province working on these hydro projects that Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro have started in ehis Province. Mr. Speaker, I am a little bit dismayed that the han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) would have the gall to stand in his place in this House to present such a petition. I support,obviously 1the people of Westport.

I was out to Westport,as I said,several years ago when they had no road ~ to their community, the road was nothing more than a cow path, And we agreed at that time,and promised them at that time,that we would do as much as we could to upgrade and pave that road.And the han. Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) has been working day and night to see to it that these people get into the main stream of Newfoundland Society,to make sure that the roads are upgraded and that they have proper fire trucks. The han. Minister of Social Services (Mr.

Hickey), I remember,- I believe, it was a firemen's ball;as a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, that I attended out there when I was Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, and