H0212pm 06

H0212pm 06

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament o FFicial rePort o F Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari So FF, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Thursday, February 12, 2009 Afternoon Sitting Volume 37, Number 6

Pro Vince o F britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc Fourth Session, 38th Parliament SPeaker o F the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on. Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations ...........................................................................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Deputy Premier and Minister of education and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy .........................................................................................h on. Shirley bond Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .................................................................................................. h on. Michael de Jong Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................. h on.

Murray c oell Minister of a griculture and l ands ..................................................................................................................................... h on. r on c antelon a ttorney General and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism .......................................................................... h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Minister of c hildren and Family Development ..........................................................................................................h on. t om c hristensen Minister of State for c hildcare ................................................................................................................................................. h on. l inda r eid Minister of c ommunity Development ............................................................................................................................. h on. k evin k rueger Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources .....................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Gordon h ogg Minister of environment and Minister r esponsible for c limate a ction .......................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of Finance and Minister r esponsible for the o lympics .................................................................................. h on. c olin h ansen Minister of Forests and r ange ....................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ................................................................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport .....................................................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour and citizens' Services ................................................................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .........................................................................................................h on.

John van Dongen Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development and Minister r esponsible for the a sia-Pacific initiative .................................................................................................. h on. ida c hong Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...........................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on. k evin Falcon leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker ..............................................................................................................................................................................Sindi h awkins Deputy Speaker .....................................................................................................................................................................k atherine Whittred a ssistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................Sue h ammell Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms .................................................................................................................................................................................

Gary l enz Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern l egislative l ibrarian ............................................................................................................................................................................ Jane t aylor l egislative c omptroller .......................................................................................................................................................................

Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t o F MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................Penticton–o kanagan Valley bell, h on.

Pat (l) ...............................................................Prince George n orth bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................e ast k ootenay black, h on. iain (l) ......................................................Port Moody–Westwood bloy, h arry (l) ....................................................................................burquitlam bond, h on. Shirley (l) ....................................Prince George–Mount r obson brar, Jagrup (nDP) .....................................................Surrey–Panorama r idge c ampbell, h on.

Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, h on. r on (l) ......................................................n anaimo-Parksville c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c hristensen, h on. t om (l) ..................................................o kanagan-Vernon c hudnovsky, Dave (nDP) ........................................... Vancouver-kensington c oell, h on.

Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ............................................Fort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) ...........................................West kootenay–b oundary c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c ubberley, David (nDP) ..............................................................Saanich South de Jong, h on.

Michael (l) ................................... a bbotsford–Mount l ehman Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway e vans, c orky (nDP) ..................................................................n elson-creston Falcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale Farnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................. Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain Fleming, r ob (nDP) ................................................................

Victoria-h illside Fraser, Scott (nDP) ...............................................................a lberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) .................................................. Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission h awkins, Sindi (l) ..................................................................k elowna-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-burrard h ogg, h on. Gordon (l) ......................................................

Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca h orning, a l (l) .............................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry ilich, o lga (l) .......................................................................... r ichmond c entre James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill Jarvis, Daniel (l) .................................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ............................................e squimalt-Metchosin k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ali, h arry (nDP) ........................................................................... Y ale-lillooet l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) ....................................................... Peace r iver South l es, John (l) ............................................................................c hilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke McGinn, Jenn (nDP) .........................................................

Vancouver-Fairview Mcintyre, h on. Joan (l) ........................................ West Vancouver–Garibaldi Mack ay, Dennis (l) ....................................................... bulkley Valley–Stikine n uraney, John (l) .............................................................. burnaby-Willingdon o ppal, h on. Wally, Qc (l) ........................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, hon. barry (l) .............................................................c hilliwack-k ent Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Puchmayr, c huck (nDP) .......................................................n ew Westminster r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, h on. l inda (l) ...................................................................r ichmond e ast r ichmond, c laude (l) .........................................................................k amloops r oddick, Valerie (l) ..........................................................................Delta South r outley, Doug (nDP) ......................................................c owichan-l adysmith r ustad, John (l) .......................................................... Prince George–omineca Sather, Michael (nDP) .........................................

Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ................................... Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, r ick (l) .................................................................. o kanagan-Westside t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, h on.

John (l) ............................................a bbotsford-c layburn Whittred, k atherine (l) ........................................ n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Wyse, c harlie (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo South Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston Vacant .............................................................................................. c omox Valley Vacant .......................................................................................Peace r iver n orth Vacant ....................................................................................

Vancouver-l angara liS t o F MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-c layburn .................................................... h on. John van Dongen a bbotsford–Mount l ehman ...........................................h on. Michael de Jong a lberni-Qualicum .............................................................................

Scott Fraser bulkley Valley–Stikine ...............................................................Dennis Mack ay burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee burnaby-e dmonds ..........................................................................r aj c houhan burnaby-Willingdon .....................................................................

John n uraney burquitlam .......................................................................................... h arry bloy c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c ariboo South................................................................................. c harlie Wyse c hilliwack-k ent.....................................................................h on. barry Penner c hilliwack-Sumas ..................................................................................

John l es c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley..............................................................................................Vacant c oquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Diane Thorne c owichan-l adysmith ...................................................................

Doug r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South..................................................................................Valerie r oddick e ast k ootenay .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett e squimalt-Metchosin .........................................................Maurine k aragianis Fort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman k amloops ................................................................................c laude r ichmond k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ................................................................... a l h orning k elowna-Mission .........................................................................Sindi h awkins l angley.......................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca ....................................................................John h organ Maple r idge–Mission ....................................................................r andy h awes Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo-Parksville .............................................................h on. r on c antelon n elson-creston ................................................................................ c orky evans n ew Westminster .................................................................... c huck Puchmayr n orth c oast.......................................................................................

Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ............................................... k atherine Whittred n orth Vancouver–Seymour ...........................................................

Daniel Jarvis o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong o kanagan-Vernon ..........................................................h on. t om c hristensen o kanagan-Westside .........................................................................r ick Thorpe Peace r iver n orth ......................................................................................Vacant Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton–o kanagan Valley................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain ...........................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George n orth .......................................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Mount r obson ............................................h on. Shirley bond Prince George–omineca ................................................................. John r ustad r ichmond c entre ................................................................................. o lga ilich r ichmond e ast ..........................................................................h on. l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ........................................................................... David c ubberley Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey–Panorama r idge ...................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ............................................................. h on. Gordon h ogg Vancouver-burrard ....................................................................Spencer h erbert Vancouver-Fairview .......................................................................Jenn McGinn Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington ........................................................David c hudnovsky Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ....................................................................................Vacant Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ......................................... Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria-h illside ..............................................................................r ob Fleming West kootenay–b oundary ........................................................ k atrine c onroy West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Y ale-lillooet ......................................................................................... h arry l ali Party Standings: l iberal 42; n ew Democratic 34; Vacant 3

CONTENTS Thursday, February 12, 2009 a fternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13689 Statements (Standing order 25 b) ........................................................................................................................................ 13690 Port a lice c. t revena e ducation funding in Surrey D. h ayer c ommunity social services workers J.

McGinn r ichmond o lympic o val o . ilich l iteracy initiatives in Malahat–Juan de Fuca area J. h organ o lympic Games countdown events J. r ustad oral Questions ....................................................................................................................................................................... 13692 impact of o lympic security costs on utility and transit rates c.

James h on. c. h ansen J. h organ b.c. h ydro and icbc purchase of o lympic Games tickets h. b ains h on. c. h ansen a ccountability for o lympic Games costs h. b ains h on. c. h ansen a ccessibility of o lympic Games tickets M. Farnworth h on. c. h ansen r ural agency stores and government liquor retail policies c. Wys e h on. r . c oleman c. t revena r . a ustin Government support for forest workers n. Macdonald h on. P . bell b.

Simpson r eports from c ommittees .................................................................................................................................................... 13697 Select Standing c ommittee on Finance and Government Services, report for the fourth session of the 38th parliament r . h awes Second r eading of bills ........................................................................................................................................................ 13697 Finance Statutes (Deficit authorization and Debt elimination) a mendment a ct, 2009 (bill 48) (continued) r .

Fleming r . Sultan J. kwan D. h ayer M. Farnworth h on. c. h ansen

c ommittee of the Whole h ouse .......................................................................................................................................... 13715 Finance Statutes (Deficit authorization and Debt elimination) a mendment a ct, 2009 (bill 48) b. r alston h on. c. h ansen M. Farnworth r eport and Third r eading of bills ....................................................................................................................................... 13728 Finance Statutes (Deficit authorization and Debt elimination) a mendment a ct, 2009 (bill 48)

13689 thurSD a Y , Februar Y 12, 2009 The h ouse met at 1:33 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members N. Macdonald: it gives me great pleasure to intro- duce some representatives from rural agency stores. These are the small stores that serve our communities. We have a nnette and t im brause from Scotch creek in the Shuswap. We have Gerry Myers, again from the Shuswap, and we have brad Davies from Sorrento in the Shuswap. i ask the h ouse to join me in making them feel welcome here. Hon. J.

McIntyre: t oday in the members' gallery we have a very special visitor from bangladesh. h is excellency a .M. Y akub a li, the h igh c ommissioner of bangladesh to c anada, is making his first official visit to british c olumbia. h e's accompanied by Vancouver resident Dr. Matiul a lam, who is a professor, a master of educational technology, at ubc . i'll have the pleasure of meeting with h is excellency later this afternoon for what i'm sure will be a very productive meeting. So please join me in giving our visitors a very, very warm welcome. S.

Fraser: Visiting us today in the gallery are repre- sentatives from the Sechelt First n ation. t oday we have c hief Garry Feschuk. We have c oun. t om Paul; and we have c oun. Wesley Jeffries, c oun. Jordan l ouie, c oun. r obert Joe and their administrator Jasmine Paul. Would you all please help me make them feel very welcome. [1335] R. Lee: in the gallery today we have four visitors: from Shenzhen, Guangdong, Xin Fan; from Vancouver, t ina Quan; from r ichmond, h anna Peng; and from burnaby, a ndrew Wang. Mr. Fan is an entrepreneur in the environmental industry, especially in sewage treat- ment.

Would the h ouse please join me to make them welcome. C. Wyse: it is indeed my pleasure today to welcome t ed hlokoff from a nahim l ake. h e has come to join us here in the l egislature. it will take t ed a total of three days to be here to watch the business done here in the l egislature. t ed is a rural agency store owner. l ikewise, i'd like to introduce ian k angas of a dams l ake, who has also joined us here today. i'd ask the h ouse to make both of these gentlemen most welcome. Hon. I. Black: i would like the h ouse to help me welcome 26 of our finest public servants in the h ouse today.

We've got representatives from the workplace technology services division of my ministry who have come to see exactly what we do in this great building. Please make them feel welcome. J. Horgan: i join with the Minister of l abour in welcoming two constituents of mine from his ministry. Sandy c armichael is here from l angford — downtown l angford, that is — and a ndrea Gibbs from Sooke. Would the h ouse please make both of them welcome and thank them for their service to british c olumbia. D.

Hayer: it gives me great pleasure to introduce 66 grade 5 students visiting here from Surrey c hristian School, which is in my riding of Surrey-t ynehead. They're here with their teachers — Miss a llison Penner, Miss Janice MacDonald and Miss Jackie h ofstede — as well as 14 volunteers. i met them outside. They have three classes here. Would the h ouse please make them very welcome. a nd thank you to the parents for coming over and joining the students. B. Simpson: i would like to recognize Mr. t rent l eggett who is in the h ouse.

Mr. l eggett is from Williams l ake and owns the Mountain View store. now, i understand that the member for c ariboo South taught Mr. l eggett. n otwithstanding that, he turned out to be a fine citizen and entrepreneur in the Williams l ake area. Mr. l eggett is part of the rural agency store delegation here to seek fairness from the government. i'd like the h ouse to make them feel welcome. Mr. Speaker: Does the member for c ariboo South wish him to withdraw that mark? [l aughter.] Hon. M. de Jong: in the gallery today the chief coun- cillor of the Sechelt First n ation, Mr.

Garry Feschuk, is here. i hope all members will make him feel welcome. R. Austin: on behalf of my colleague the member for n orth c oast, i would like to introduce craig and e laine Widsten. They're with the Shearwater Marine group who provide services through rural agency stores in Denny island and bella bella. Would the h ouse join me in making them most welcome. R. Hawes: in the gallery today is Mr. r ob Thiessen of the h ope for Freedom Society. They provide just abso- lutely first-class drug and alcohol addiction recovery services in the t ri-cities area. c ould the h ouse please make r ob welcome. C.

Trevena: i, too, would like to ask the h ouse to make welcome some people who are here to discuss the issue of rural agency stores. John Guy from Saturna island and Daniel k im from Galiano island are in the gallery to watch proceedings and to discuss the issue later on.

british c olumbia Debates13690 t hursday, February 12, 2009 G. Gentner: in the gallery today are some of Delta's finest school students. in particular, i'd like to introduce to the gallery, from the Delview Secondary School, Principal Don Y ounger, Sylvia Showler and Maureen and 31 grade 11 students. a nd now that i have the ear of the minister, this school certainly needs some new gym equipment. [1340] Statements (Standing Order 25b) Port alice C.

Trevena: When you drive down the road approach- ing Port a lice, your breath is literally taken away by the beauty and majesty of its location. on the shores of n eroutsos inlet the small community stretches along the base of the hillside. t urning right before you get to the village, you come to Jeune l anding, a Western Forest Products site, and if you go through the village, you end up at the mill, which was built more than 90 years ago.

Four years ago the mill was closed, the previous owners taking equipment and, along with it, the pensions of the workers. it has now reopened, largely thanks to the hard work, commitment and belief of the community, led by former mayor l arry Pepper and the ce P local. u nfortunately, it is struggling, like all of the forest sector, and Western around Port alice is likely down until april. Port a lice is a community that has taken its knocks and continues to do so. The hospital was downgraded to a health centre but is still vital since the village is home to heavy industry.

The community continues a longstanding fight with Viha to get a permanent doctor. a t present the locum comes in every two weeks, and as one person said to me: "Y ou just have to time your heart attack." There's always a question of whether the arena will remain open, and the village is using all avenues to get funding to replace the roof on the community centre, a building vital for maintaining the sense of belonging, ownership and community. it's the school gym, the library, the meeting room, the evacuation centre — the true community centre.

The latest pitch is to t owns for t omorrow. l uckily, Sea View School is very active, and it received a fabulous classroom makeover last year in a national competition. i invite anybody to go and see it. it's remarkable. The village is diversifying. it's working on building a marina. a resort is going to be built, and retirees and second homeowners continue to drive across h ighway 30 over to the west coast.

Port a lice is a community with strength and with resilience, a community determined to survive. l ike other small communities across the north island, the people who live there are rooted and committed to the community and want to ensure their communities live beyond this recession. e Ducation Fun Din G in Surre Y D. Hayer: e ducation is the key to our future, and Surrey residents are benefiting from the emphasis our government has placed on british c olumbia being the best educated in c anada, if not the world. The facts speak for themselves in Surrey.

Since 2001 we have com- pleted over 31 school capital projects in Surrey, worth $171 million — including the new schools, renovations and seismic upgrades — with even more to come. We now have ten StrongStart b.c. early learning centres in Surrey to support the youngest learners. For all those Surrey students who want to go for higher learning, we have the world-class trades and technology centre in c loverdale and a magnificent new university campus at Simon Fraser u niversity.

Just a few months ago we also announced the upgrading of kwantlen u niversity c ollege to the full degree-granting kwantlen Polytechnic university. Surrey residents, Surrey parents, students and P acs of Fraser h eights are very excited about it, and they look forward to more services as we keep protecting education funding.

They can access early learning opportunities from kindergarten to k-to-12 and post-secondary pro- grams such as trades training and university degrees without having to leave home. e ven with the downturn in the economy, our govern- ment is continuing to protect and make sure education is a priority, and today education funding from k-to- 12 is at an all-time high at $5.67 billion, a 23 percent increase since 2001 despite being approximately 50,000 fewer students in the system.

My constituents also are happy to see that we have the highest funding for post-secondary education we have ever received, and they're looking forward to govern- ment providing good education and good funding to education so their kids can be successful, stay at home and continue providing good jobs and good education opportunities and good citizens for the future. co MMunit Y Social Ser ViceS WorkerS J. McGinn: i rise today to recognize the important contributions that community social service workers make to this province.

Since 2008 more than 20 muni- cipal councils across b.c. joined with community social service workers to ask that March be made community social service awareness month. [1345] often we don't recognize the important work done by our community social service workers. This work includes providing employment and housing supports for people with developmental disabilities, support for women and children who are victims of violence, specialized services for immigrants and first nations families, and child care, to name a few.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 12, 2009 13691 The people working in these areas are the backbone of our community. These are the people who look after our most vulnerable populations and work to ensure that we have a caring, compassionate and just society. People like c herie Dobbie, an infant development consultant with Sunrise r esources for e arly c hildhood Development. She works with families to ensure that children who are at risk of developmental delays have the services and care they deserve.

People like a ngela McDougall and the staff and vol- unteers at battered women's support services. a s they enter their 30th year this year, they are proud to know that they serve over 8,000 women a year who are surviv- ors of domestic violence. individuals like bunny l eblanc, team leader on intake and investigation at the Vancouver a boriginal c hild and Family Services, one of the largest urban aborig- inal child services organizations in c anada.

They work to protect some of british c olumbia's most vulnerable children and ensure they get care that's integrated into aboriginal communities. in my experience working in the community social service sector, i've met some of the most passionate and dedicated individuals who have made an immeasurable impact in people's lives. We should be proud that the province of british c olumbia contains such phenom- enal, dedicated social service workers. i just hope that all the members here today will join me to designate March as community Social Services Month. richM onD ol YMPic o Val O.

Ilich: t oday marks exactly one year to the start of the o lympic Games, and tonight my municipality of r ichmond is celebrating at the o lympic o val. The oval was opened to the public on December 12 last year, exactly 14 months before the opening of the games. a lready 70,000 people have visited the oval, or they've skated on the o lympic ice, or they've used the fitness facilities.

The oval is one of the most impressive indoor com- petition venues for the games, and i was delighted to see the cbc broadcasting nationally from the oval last night. it looked great on television. a wide range of green building innovations have been incorporated into the oval. The massive roof structure has over one million board feet of pine beetle wood incorporated into it. The stormwater management system also captures rainwater from the enormous roof, and it's used for toilet flushing and irrigation. There are other green innovations as well.

For my community of r ichmond, this extraordin- ary facility is anticipated to be a keystone of sport and wellness going into the future. r ichmond already takes pride in having the longest life expectancy and the lowest obesity rates in c anada, thanks in part to active lifestyles and excellent parks and recreation programs. Given the community vitality, the oval was primar - ily designed for legacy use while delivering on all of the o lympic venue specifications.

Following the games, the oval will transform into a multi-sport and wellness complex to service sport organizations and provide the greater Vancouver area with a facility for sport medi- cine, sport science, healthy living promotion and injury rehabilitation. o ther o lympic legacies in r ichmond include a 2010 arts and cultural program designed to create ongoing legacies for local arts and culture groups.

This has led to the first annual r ichmond Winter Festival of the a rts, which began February 1 and runs until March 15. it's going to become an annual event, giving increased pro- file to the arts. a ll in all, we're very proud in r ichmond of the oval. Mr. Speaker: Just to remind you, Members. They are two-minute statements. literacY initiatiVeS in Malahat –Juan De Fuca area J. Horgan: it's two minutes for me, hon.

Speaker. i want to bring to the attention of members two positive literacy initiatives in my community, the first involving students at h ans h elgesen e lementary in Metchosin. on January 23, World l iteracy Day, stu- dents at the school joined with students across c anada in hopes of being entered in the Guinness Book of World Records. Their goal was to be part of the record for the most children reading with an adult in multiple loca- tions. interesting category. [1350] t eachers in classrooms across the country began the simultaneous read at 11 a.m.

Pacific Standard t ime. h ans h elgesen had 136 students participate. i want to congratulate the principal, Julia Sahota, and all the staff, students and parents that are participating in this pos- sible world record. o ur local numbers will be sent to the literacy foundation, along with the numbers from more than 1,000 other locations across c anada. The second literacy success story involves an old friend and mentor from my youth.

Since 2005 the Sooke l ionesses have been supporting literacy at Port r enfrew e lementary. it all started when my friend, retired district principal George Gurney, drove l ionesses and former teachers Jean Whiffan and Jean c onway, retired dis- trict primary supervisor bev l enahan and author Julie l awson to Port r enfrew to deliver 26 children's books written by Ms. l awson, herself a former teacher at John Muir e lementary in my district.

The donation was gratefully received by Principal r uman Mca rthur, the staff at the school and the very excited students. in return, Julie was presented with drawings from the students, and George got to make a

british c olumbia Debates13692 t hursday, February 12, 2009 rare trip to Port r enfrew that did not include returning with a couple of salmon or two. From that beginning, the l ionesses have continued the tradition of delivering new books every December. Weather and — listen up, Minister of t ransportation — road washouts permitting, students, teachers and l ionesses enjoy the opportunity to share in the joy of reading. t wo great examples, hon. Speaker and mem- bers of this h ouse, of literacy in action in Malahat–Juan de Fuca. ol YMPic Ga Me S count Do Wn e Vent S J.

Rustad: t oday is an exciting day for the people of b.c. c ommunities big and small, right across this province, are celebrating. t oday we mark the one-year countdown of the 2010 Winter Games, one year until we take the world stage and show them what it means to be british c olumbians. n orthern communities are also celebrating this his- toric milestone and showing off their b.c. spirit, from Prince r upert through to Dawson creek. For example, in my constituency, Vanderhoof residents are enjoying a fun week of festivities at this year's n echako Valley Winterfest.

With family activities, including a curling bonspiel, hockey tournaments, sleigh rides, movie night and many more events than i have time to mention, our community is showcasing its own o lympic spirit. a s part of the winterfest, our very own o lympian, t uppy c ollard, who competed in the biathlon at the 1998 Winter o lympics in n agano, Japan, is visiting three elementary schools in V anderhoof and will talk about her o lympic experience. t uppy has not only proudly represented our province and our country, but she has been instrumental in giving back to her community and fostering our local o lympic spirit.

She is a fantastic example of the north's contribution to the olympic spirit. b.c.'s rural communities are home to a rich diversity of culture, heritage and traditions. This is exactly what our games will be representing to the world next year. Winterfest and all of the one-year-countdown events are a great way to kick off the 2010 games celebrations that demonstrate not only the spirit of b.c. but the spirit of our rural communities. i encourage all british c olumbians to enjoy their local countdown festivities as the excitement for the 2010 games builds.

Oral Questions iMPact o F ol YMPic Securit Y co St S on utilit Y an D tran Sit rate S C. James: c an the energy Minister tell this h ouse how much extra b.c. h ydro is paying or will pay to cover o lympic security costs? a nd will those costs be passed on to ratepayers? Hon. C. Hansen: t oday is an exciting day in british c olumbia. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C. Hansen: t oday is one of those days when we have the eyes of the world on british c olumbia.

The Today show is broadcasting out of n ew Y ork. a ctually, they're broadcasting from Whistler through n ew Y ork to their n orth a merican audience. cbc is broadcasting nationally all across c anada. [1355] What they're seeing is the excitement in british c olumbia. They're seeing the excitement of the count- down to the 2010 o lympic and Paralympic Games. i find it so sad that the l eader of the o pposition and her opposition colleagues cannot for just one day join in the celebration. instead, they continue to bash the o lympics. it's very regrettable. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. l eader of the o pposition has a supplemental. C. James: u nlike this government, i believe you can actually stand up for taxpayers and support the o lympics. both of those are possible. a s we know…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just take your seat for a second. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Proceed. C. James: This government has shown over and over and over again that they can't be trusted to come clean on o lympic costs. We hear it again from the minister. l ast year h ydro said security costs will add at least $7 million.

They applied for a rate increase of up to 7.5 per- cent, in part to cover those security costs. a gain, my question is to the energy Minister. h ow much more will british c olumbians pay to turn on their lights to cover security costs that this minister still won't come clean on?

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 12, 2009 13693 interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, minister. Hon. C. Hansen: i'm sure that the nDP are the type of people that go to a two-year-old's birthday party and douse the candles. W e saw the excitement with the unveiling of the torch today. We saw the excitement in the eyes of the public in Whistler this morning when they couldn't wait to be photo- graphed with it, to touch it, just to be near the o lympic torch or anything that's associated with the games. This is a time for us to celebrate.

This is a time for us all to stand up and celebrate the huge success of the o lympic Games that is in the making. it's time for the opposition to get on board and join with british c olumbians in celebrating this tremendous day in the eyes of the world. Mr. Speaker: The l eader of the o pposition has a fur- ther supplemental. C.

James: i'll tell this minister and every member on that side what it's time for. it's time for this government to come clean on the real cost of the o lympics for british c olumbians. in its submission to bcuc, h ydro said they're not alone in having to look at additional costs. t ransl ink, t elus, t erasen, b.c. t ransmission c orporation — all in the same boat, all of them saying their customers are going to have to pay millions for security costs that Vanoc and the government won't cover. i remind the minister that it was his Premier who was famous for saying: "There's only one taxpayer." Will the minister end this charade and tell us how many different ways this government is going to dip into taxpayers' pockets to pay for security costs? interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C. Hansen: in 365 days from today we will have 250,000 visitors from around the world.

We'll see about 8,000 athletes and officials, and we'll see about 10,000 journalists coming to british c olumbia. [1400] i can assure the member that the rcMP and the fed- eral government are doing a first-class job in developing a security plan that will make sure that those hundreds of thousands of visitors who come to british c olumbia are going to be able to enjoy the best Winter o lympics ever, knowing that they're safe and secure in british c olumbia and knowing that they can celebrate along with the other 4.4 million british c olumbians who will be celebrating one of the greatest events that will ever happen in the history of british c olumbia.

J. Horgan: t erasen Gas has been given the green light to ding ratepayers to pay for security costs. interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. J. Horgan: b.c. h ydro has been given the green light to ding their ratepayers for security costs. We're told that the b.c. t ransmission c orporation, t elus, t ransl ink, and other utilities in british c olumbia are all looking at increased costs to pay for the o lympic Games security challenges. This is a very simple question to the minister.

When everybody goes home, when the venues' lights go out, how much will british c olumbians have to pay to turn on their lights, to make a phone call or to take a bus, to pay for your security costs? h ow much is it going to be? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Minister. Hon. C. Hansen: it's obvious. We know that the l eader of the o pposition did not support the games from day one.

She claims today that she supports it, and yet what we hear from the nDP and the l eader of the o pposition is "b ash the o lympics" one day, "b ash the o lympics" the next day. i can tell the opposition members that this side of the h ouse supports the o lympic Games. We support the athletes. We support the communities that are celebrat- ing throughout british c olumbia today, and we're going to join with the world as we celebrate 365 days from today when we enjoy the opening ceremonies of what will be the world's best winter o lympic Games ever in the history of…. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J.

Horgan: a s much as we are always delighted to see the Minister of Finance and his gold-plated pompoms, standing up being supportive of the o lympics and being concerned about cost to taxpayers are not mutually exclusive. We on this side of the h ouse are trying to get an answer from that minister about what the true costs are going to be. So 365 days to go until the world comes to british c olumbia. When are you going to tell british c olumbians what it's going to cost to hold the big party? When are you going to come clean, be honest with taxpayers? h ow much is it going to cost to turn on the lights? h ow

british c olumbia Debates13694 t hursday, February 12, 2009 much for a bus ride? h ow much for a phone call? Y ou're responsible. a nswer the question. Hon. C.

Hansen: i will tell you who will feel like partying in british c olumbia, and it's the thousands of workers who are going to be employed because of the fact that we're holding the o lympic Games. it will be all british c olumbians that will be able to party and cele- brate the fact that we have economic stimulus as a direct result of the games to the tune of about $10 billion. i can tell you that every one of us on this side of the h ouse are going to be celebrating and feel like partying because this is going to be the best o lympics ever, and i'll tell you that i personally will be partying when the c anadian men's and women's hockey teams bring home gold. b.c. hYD ro anD icbc Purcha Se o F ol YMPic GaMeS ticket S H.

Bains: it seems that there is a hidden o lympic cost in every corner of this government, and they don't end with security costs alone. h ere are a couple of other examples. b.c. h ydro and icbc are also using ratepay- ers' money to buy their own pool of prime tickets: men's hockey final, best skating events, all top-notch. between these two crown corporations, they have all ordered almost 4,000 of these tickets for their executives and high-end customers, but they refuse to tell us how many of those tickets are being issued to them and how much it would be costing those ratepayers. [1405] t o the minister: will the minister tell us today how many of these tickets have been bought by b.c. h ydro and icbc and at what cost to the ratepayers?

Hon. C. Hansen: i must say that the opposition critic is showing a considerable amount of hypocrisy today. While he stands up…. While he's outside in the foyer this morning trying to get his picture taken with chil- dren who are celebrating the o lympics, he comes in this h ouse on the day of the 365-day countdown and bashes the o lympics. This is an opposition party that doesn't appreciate the fact that the world is watching us. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. Members. Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. C. Hansen: The world is excited about the o lympics.

We are excited about the o lympics. it's about time that the nDP got on board and got excited about the o lympics as well. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. accountabilit Y For ol YMPic Ga Me S co St S H. Bains: This is a pathetic display of non-accountability and irresponsibility by this minister. The performance of this minister for the last few days clearly shows that every- one is pointing fingers at everyone else. n o one is being held accountable to the taxpayers. b.c. l iberals point to the federal t ories.

Y esterday the federal minister said: "Don't look at me. i never endorsed $175 million." Vanoc tells the utilities that they're on their own. in all of this there's one person who counts: the taxpayer. The taxpayer is getting the runaround from the l iberal government right here. a gain to the minister. h e can't stall any longer. Will he promise the taxpayers that when the final security budget is made public every cost borne by the taxpayers will be included in that budget? Hon. C.

Hansen: a s i indicated yesterday, it is the federal government, through the rc MP , that has responsibility for the security plan and the security budget overall. So i refer the member back to the answers from previous days where this was canvassed. but i can tell you what will be part of that account- ability: the benefits that flow from the o lympics, where we talk about billions of dollars of economic activity.

We talk about the dollars that visitors will be spending in our restaurants and on our taxis and in our hotels and travelling around the province to see what a wonderful province that british c olumbia is.

The benefits that are going to flow from the t V exposure that we're getting today on nbc, being broadcast across the u nited States, cbc, ct V , Global t elevision…. a ll of the networks are broadcasting what a fabulous place british c olumbia is, and that will be part of the huge and considerable legacy that we will have for british c olumbia once the games are over. acceSS ibilit Y o F ol YMPic GaMeS ticket S M.

Farnworth: Well, the minister couldn't answer the question, but i can answer it for him. icbc has pur - chased 2,261 tickets to the o lympics, including events such as the gold-medal hockey finals, curling finals — all the primo events. My question is to the minister responsible for icbc. Given the statements that have come from the Minister of Finance and others that…. Y ou know, when every british c olumbian should be able to enjoy the games, doesn't he believe it's appropriate that any tickets bought by icbc, particularly to gold-medal events such as the men's hockey final, should go to british c olumbians

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 12, 2009 13695 who otherwise wouldn't be able to attend the games and not to corporate executives? [1410] Hon. C. Hansen: This is going to be the first o lympic Games in history where accessibility for tickets for people who are low-income is actually being put forward as a matter of right by Vanoc.

We know that if you look at the operating budget of Vanoc, they had budgeted for a certain amount for ticket revenues, which was actually a huge chunk of the operating budget that Vanoc has put in place. i think each of us, certainly, on this side of the h ouse knows, because we went on line trying to get tickets with very, very limited success. i know i was certainly disappointed i didn't get the ones that i would have liked to have. but there's been a huge demand for tick- ets from around the world, and we know that they've been a huge sellout. a ctually, Vanoc is now projecting that they're going to receive more revenue than they otherwise would have from ticket sales.

That's part of the success of the games and part of what will make this the best games ever. rural a Genc Y Store S an D Go Vern Ment li Quor retail Policie S C. Wyse: r ural agency stores provide access to food, toiletries and liquor to residents in our province's small- est communities and the tourists that visit them, but these stores are not being treated fairly by this government. Since 2003 the c ampbell government has progressively reduced the price that private liquor stores pay for liquor.

They now get a 16 percent discount as well as assistance with their operating costs. r ural agency stores have had their discount frozen at 10 percent for 24 years and get little assistance with their operating costs. What these operators want to know is: when will this government provide rural agency stores with the same discount rate and assistance with operating costs paid for the private liquor stores? Hon. R.

Coleman: Government has recently made changes to reduce the costs to improve the services to rural agency stores across b.c. by providing free freight, increasing product availability and improving reporting. Government has also recently completed a review of these stores in conjunction with their association, which is under review by the l iquor Distribution branch. on the second part of the question, rural agency stores have liquor and grocery stores and confectionery stores and sell dry goods as well. They are not liquor stores.

This is an add-on to their business, and at this time, there is no review of the discount to rural agency stores taking place. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. C. Wyse: The agency stores are looking to be treated with the same treatment that this government gives to the private liquor stores. Private liquor stores have donated almost $250,000 to the b.c. l iberal Party.

The group representing private liquor stores, called able, not only donates to the b.c. l iberals but is presently sponsoring advertisements supporting the l iberals. is this why private liquor stores receive such a sweetheart deal from the l iberals? Hon. R. Coleman: i guess the first piece of history was that those guys on the other side of the h ouse actually opposed rural agency stores when they came into place in the first place. So they don't actually sup- port the whole concept. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Coleman: These are not liquor stores.

These are rural stores that are general stores that sell grocer - ies and what have you. i'd like know if the member is advocating against the wishes of the bc Geu and other people in society that we should be putting liquor in grocery stores around the province of british c olumbia. This is an add-on that's given to rural communities to their business. it is not them being exclusive as liquor stores, and that's why they're treated differently, hon. Member. C.

Trevena: i think that if the minister spoke to people who ran the rural agency stores, he'd understand that yes, they know they're not liquor stores, but they are effectively carrying out government business on behalf of the government but at a cost to themselves. They often lose money by running these liquor agencies. [1415] Private liquor stores receive a 16 percent discount and get help with operating costs. The rural agency stores, which are government licensed, get fixed prices and get a 10 percent discount.

That hurts wherever they are, whether it's the Sointula co-op or the h eriot bay store or the store in Sayward — wherever they're trying to run these stores. Maybe the minister can answer for me the question which was posed to me by the manager of the co-op on h ornby island, who asked quite directly: "Who lobbied the government on behalf of the private stores to get them such a good deal?" Hon. R. Coleman: i'll repeat for the member that these are not liquor stores. These are general stores that have an add-on to their business, and they can have it

british c olumbia Debates13696 t hursday, February 12, 2009 voluntarily. They don't have to take the licence if they don't want it. by reducing and giving free freight and doing some efficiencies, we have actually saved about a million dollars to rural agency stores in the last year. With regards to some changes we have, we have a report in front of us that we're looking at. but they are treated differently because they are not full-line liquor stores, as liquor stores are. Private or government liquor stores cannot sell groceries, cannot sell confectionery and cannot sell dry goods. That's why the difference.

So in rural b.c. they have an add-on to their business by rural agency stores. They get a 10 percent discount, and we work on efficiencies to get their freight to them as efficiently as possible. R. Austin: in essence, they are an extension of gov- ernment liquor stores. What the minister here is saying is that if they are too small a business and they don't have the big connections and they don't have the money to donate to the b.c. l iberals, then they don't get a fair shake in this province. it's because of this government's policies that rural agency stores sometimes take a loss on the liquor that they offer.

This means they have to charge more for the necessities like food and toiletries that people in these tiny communities rely on. Why is this government against these hard-working small business owners get- ting the same deal that their friends and donors get? Hon. R.

Coleman: That's absolute nonsense. a bsolute nonsense. t o make that type of parallel and try and drive that party line when you as an opposition and as a government opposed rural agency stores to begin with in the province of british c olumbia and, in addition to that, made no changes in efficiencies whatsoever in the ten years you were government with regards to them…. We've improved the efficiencies. We're giving them free freight.

We're working with them on the report that we have before government, and we'll find other solutions for them as we go forward. but the fact of the matter is that they are not going to be treated like a liquor store when they are not a liquor store. Go VernMent SuPPort For Fore St Worker S N. Macdonald: a lmost every one of the province's sawmills and pulp mills are either completely shut down or operating on reduced shifts. a t the truck log- gers convention this January, the Premier claimed he was going to get the federal government to extend ei benefits for a full year.

We got a mere five-week exten- sion, and that's it. What is the government going to do to help the thousands of forest workers who are now running out of ei benefits? Hon. P . Bell: This government has been working hard through a series of initiatives to support the industry not just in the short term but over the long term.

The member opposite should recognize that in his commun- ity, a lot of the work that has gone on has yielded direct benefit to the c edar operation. in fact, if the softwood lumber hadn't been dealt with in the way it was with the high-value cap, there's a very good chance that Downie c edar would not be operating today in that member's community. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N.

Macdonald: The question was on the immediate support for 20,000 workers who have lost their jobs and are losing their ei. l ook, there is a rally of laid-off forest workers tomor- row in Prince George, so the minister can attend and give that sort of an answer to workers there and see the reception he gets. We know for sure he won't go near it. n ot only did the Premier fail to get extensions to ei; he still has not put one penny of provincial money towards supporting b.c. forest workers and forest-dependent communities — not one penny.

The community development trust is entirely federal money. [1420] My question is this. Will the government commit today to match all federal contributions to the community development trust so that more forest workers and their families can be helped through this very difficult time? Hon. P . Bell: in fact, the province has been doing a great job delivering the resources the federal govern- ment…. a nd listen to this: 1,700 forest workers have been bridged to early retirement; 500 workers have been offered retraining packages.

There's been $17.25 million set aside for tuition assistance for forest workers. in fact, we've delivered over and over and over again, and for that member to stand up opposite is absolutely hypocritical. h e knows how challenging this industry is. in 1998 b.c. had just 47 percent of the total c anadian lumber shipments into the u nited States. t oday it's 58 percent. o ur industry is leading the world in very dif- ficult times. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. B. Simpson: e very penny that the minister just men- tioned is federal money. That's the point. We're asking for the province to match that money.

This minister has no credibility on this file whatsoever. l ast September this Minister of Forests made the fol- lowing prediction about the forest industry: "i think the worst is over. it's unlikely that you're going to see any

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 12, 2009 13697 more significant mill closures at this point." o ops. We've seen nothing but mill closures since. l ast o ctober he stood in Quesnel, and he told the chamber of commerce that there will be no mill closures in Quesnel. in fact, he was so sure of himself, he said that the sky would not fall "because i'm going to hold up the sky" — a direct quote from this minister. e ver since then we've had nothing but mill closure announcements in the c ariboo, most of which are indefinite closures, leaving those workers facing uncer - tainty.

My question to the minister is this. There is a forest worker meeting for all the laid-off forest workers in Quesnel next week. Will the minister clear his cal- endar, come to that meeting, tell them why he let the sky fall and why this government will not support those workers in their time of need? Hon. P . Bell: i think it's always noteworthy to look at some of the comments that the opposition critic has made over a period of time. it's useful to have the insight into what forest policy under that regime must look like. a s reported in…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister, just take your seat.

Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. P . Bell: i encourage the opposition to sit back because this may take a little while. i can tell you that it's reported in Opinion 250. r ecently the opposition critic is quoted as saying: "The pulp industry is dead." is that the member opposite's vision? in Hansard in this very h ouse he said: "in every- thing i read on the pulp industry, it's not viable in british c olumbia." i'll tell you what we've done.

We've worked with each and every pulp operation in this province to make sure they're viable. in fact we just gave a detailed tax reduction for school taxes across the pulp industry that translates into $25 million a year. This government cares about the forest industry. it's reacting; it's delivering — whether it's c hina, whether it's Mongolia, whether it's the u nited States. We're going to support this industry. [end of question period.] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. We're just going to wait a second while they…. Members. [1425] Reports from Committees R.

Hawes: i have the honour to present the report of the Select Standing c ommittee on Finance and Government Services for the fourth session of the 38th parliament. This report summarizes our annual review of the budgets of the independent officers of the l egislative a ssembly. i move that the report be taken as read and received. Motion approved. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: i call continued second reading debate on bill 48. Second Reading of Bills Finance Statute S (De Ficit a uthorization an D Debt e li Mination) aMenDMent a ct, 2009 (continued) R.

Fleming: i'm pleased to rise to respond to bill 48, the Deficit a uthorization a ct, today. i was looking for - ward to hearing more from my colleague from n orth Thompson — but i guess he concluded his statements before we adjourned earlier today — because i wanted to direct his attention…. h e had said a number of things to the member for c owichan-l adysmith about his government's so-called prudent financial management record, and i wanted to direct the member for n orth Thompson's attention to his own government's copies of their consolidated revenue statements, because we've heard the Premier.

We've heard other members of the government talk about how personally painful it is to return to deficits, having produced the largest deficits in b.c .'s history in 2002 and 2003, to be returning to that today, in this year. i want to direct that member's attention to a note in the consolidated revenue statements of his government just issued last summer — last July, as a matter of fact. There's a note in that set of statements that shows that under this government, in one year, the long-term con- tractual obligations — debt, in other words — that this government has entered into….

This is where the public-private partnerships and other agreements would be situated — in a tiny little note with no graphs, no explanations of what obligations are what and what the value of them are, because that's openness and transparency under this government. [k. Whittred in the chair.]

british c olumbia Debates13698 t hursday, February 12, 2009 in that note it does disclose that the long-term con- tractual obligations of this government increased by $30 billion year over year, that there are $52 billion of long- term contractual obligations that this government has signed our grandchildren on to repay, because many of these agreements, when it comes to public-private part- nerships, as that member will know, are 30 to 40 years in duration. That's debt and obligation that those genera- tions will have to pay.

So i want that on the record. i want the member to have an opportunity to go and read that note, because apparently it has escaped him in the past. a nd when he claims that the b.c. l iberals are in favour of borrow- ing instead of direct debt, i want him to know that what his government has done is, in fact, oblige us mainly to private capital markets that are now evidently unstable in many parts of the world.

The o lympic village fiasco comes to mind in this regard. h is government has bound us in 40-year contracts in many instances to these hedge funds and to these private financial market organiza- tions that are now having so much difficulty surviving. on bill 48. i recognize that the bill's title runs a little longer. it contains parentheses in there, words like "stat- utes" and "amendments." but i think when it comes to the vernacular, as the public understands this bill, it should really be truthfully called the "deficits when we need them" act, because contrary to all the posturing done by the Premier and this government, that's what this means.

That's what it stands for. When you come into the l egislature, reconvene it, move the throne speech back, extend the session as this government has done this week, it's their escape clause from their own law. a nd there are lots of laws that this government has broken. This is one of them. There are other laws — i'll get to them later in my remarks — that they've continued to break. [1430] i see that the member who i would wish to remind won't be able to hear it, but the education act that guar - antees class composition and class-size limits….

We just had confirmation that for the third year in a row — and it's only a three-year-old bill — that law was broken. a s far as children in 10,000 classrooms across british c olumbia, that law means nothing. a nd this law, only four years after it was passed — one business cycle after it was passed — means nothing, because the province is returning to deficit.

That's why we're here. i think what i lament is that this bill is not about fixing that legislation. it's actually a mini-bailout, in its own right, of the bill's flaws. it's a bill that seeks to prop up the fiction that beneath the government's unlimited eco- nomic hubris, the belief that the b.c. l iberals actually have divine counter-cyclical powers, because that's what underlines the original legislation…. interjection. R. Fleming: The Minister of h ealth says it's true, so i don't know why we're here this week. i guess the cycle returned. Maybe we're not really here at all.

The l iberal law, as it was originally drafted, com- mands deficits to go away, and it expects the economy to listen to the law. but the real world doesn't work that way, and that's why we're here. i've given the very concept of this bill a little bit of thought over the last week. We didn't see the bill until Monday, but we have had an opportunity — all of us in british c olumbia — for many, many months to contem- plate that the government would have to go in exactly the direction it is going this week.

We've looked at the context of the legislation in terms of every other indus- trialized country which started a mature discussion with its population and with opinion leaders many, many months ago, in as many as five fiscal quarters ago. We have the international Monetary Fund; we have business analysts. e veryone was predicting the inevit- ability. Some people were trumpeting the desirability — even the Prime Minister of c anada, an unlikely con- vert — of this many months ago. but this government, almost alone in the world, denied that this jurisdiction was at any risk of running a deficit.

The Minister of Finance, in B.C. Business Magazine, the issue of January 7, 2009 — like a month ago — was quoted saying: "With responsible fiscal management, there's no reason this province should ever go back into deficit." The Premier made the same arguments repeat- edly. They argued a position of b.c. exceptionalism — that global winds touching other areas of the world would not touch our shores.

They sounded exactly like John Mcc ain did in the u .S. presidential election, who throughout — right through to n ovember — said that the fundamentals of the economy are strong. h e was in absolute denial, just as this government has been. They didn't respond. They saw no need to. The atti- tude was that there's nothing in need of rescuing here in british c olumbia. k eep shopping. Go about your business. but meanwhile the signs were all around.

The entire world, specifically the private sector economy, lost some $57 trillion in the latter half of 2008. n ow, that must have been a pretty good clue that the fundamentals weren't strong in our new global economy. That should have sparked some action from this government, but it didn't. The Minister of Finance and the Premier main- tained their line.

Maybe there were other clues that the Premier and the Minister of Finance should have seen. i specifically reference the headlines in our british c olumbia papers of record. i want to cite a few headlines and the dates of these headlines. [1435] l et me just read a few. "c anada's h ousing bubble to burst," September 2008. "c ommodity index Drops; Global Sell-off c ontinues," September 2008. "Global

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 12, 2009 13699 crisis ends Plan for b.c. Pulp Mill," o ctober 2008. "Stocks Plunge Despite Government efforts," o ctober 2008. "ontario and b.c. See Surge in ei r ecipients," n ovember 2008. "Provincial e conomies to Shrink in 2009," December 2008.

Those are the headlines of the newspapers that presumably the Minister of Finance and the Premier have access to and read. a ll the while, while the discussion in the mainstream of society and in our newspapers and the media was about the reality that was upon us, the Finance Minister and the Premier were telling british c olumbians some- thing different, and something that was incorrect. They know it's incorrect now; they've admitted it.

For all of 2008 the b.c. l iberals actually ordered their bureaucracy to be only optimistic and to prepare to do what it takes to not have a deficit under any circum- stances, even as growth levels were predicted to reach zero. Maybe that's why there was no fight for jobs from the Premier or for resource communities. Maybe that's why there's been no action at all coming from british c olumbia to unlock the credit crunch that's gripping small and medium-sized businesses. While all this turmoil was going on, the Premier actually cancelled the fall session of the l egislature.

This is while the world was talking about the meltdown of the global financial sector. n othing to do here in this l egislature under those circumstances. Then he realized he actually had to do something. More importantly, he had to be seen to do something. So we did, in the end — after it was cancelled — come back to this place for five days in n ovember. a nd to do what?

We were here to debate a vague package, and members will remember that it was centred around a fake property tax freeze that played on people's common misunderstandings of how assessments and municipal taxes actually work. i've read the papers as of last week, and locally, muni- cipalities are talking about 4, 6 or 8 percent tax increases. Vancouver is staring at a 10 percent tax increase for its ratepayers from the failure of the o lympic village fiasco.

Those are the kinds of pressures that are in our municipal level of government, and it exposes that the centrepiece of that package that we were here for five days in n ovember to debate isn't working. it was designed to show that there was a tax freeze when in fact there's no such thing. The Premier's plan, up until recently, and the orders within government were the old h erbert h oover line. When you've got a contracting economy and when there are signs of danger all around, cut public spending. h old the line.

That was the temptation and the direction that came from this government, because that's what they know how to do best. That's what they did for their entire first term, and that's what they've continued in many ministries in the second mandate.

There must be a fascinating paper trail of bureau- cratic hoop-jumping of draconian austerity plans that were drafted up for ministries and agencies of the c rown and other fruitless exercises that they probably had their deputy ministers performing, and their senior managers. it must have resembled some kind of c harlie c haplin film, seeing them run around with that right up until February. The diktat was: "o bey the orders from up on high. a void deficits at any cost." This is ideology at work. but then that all changed, and that's why we're here again. it changed on Groundhog Day, as we remember last week.

That's when everything suddenly changed. That was the day this government poked its head out of the hole, looked around and said, "Things are bad," and, to its bureaucracy, said: "We can't do these cuts." Maybe the Premier had an epiphany. Many he joined the pragmatic global consensus that we're seeing from the u .S. administration and other world leaders. Maybe he joined that consensus that exists, which advised that cuts under these circumstances would be the worst thing possible — would make a recession deeper, longer, worse and more painful.

Maybe he joined that consensus, or maybe he realized that that plan, if pursued to the fullest extent, would cost him the election, because undoubtedly it would have. british c olumbians would have been irate. i think that is the more likely motivator for this 180-degree u-turn. it's not every day, after all…. it's only every six months or so that b.c. l iberals renounce what amount to articles of political faith, and in this case an

article of political faith that for this Premier he has held dear for 15 years. [1440] but what is underpinning this bill is still a sham. it's a component of a broader hoax the b.c. l iberals are play- ing british c olumbians for. The bill, in effect, says: "i mean what i say on deficits. i mean what i say on deficits until i stop meaning what i say." That's what the bill says. in other words, this is not really the deficit authorization act. it's the "i was kidding; i was just kidding" act. interjection. R.

Fleming: h ere's the problem i face, because the Minister of h ealth is asking me my voting intentions. h e's asking my voting intentions. h ere's the problem i face on this bill. a t a practical level, i will probably have to vote in favour of it, because the government screwed up. it's operating under flawed legislation that gives it no room to manoeuvre under the situation that we're encountering in the world economy.

This legislation doesn't fit reality, so all of us are going to have to take a hard look at this and look at the amend- ments as proposed, flawed as they are. in other words, what we have to decide…. This is the difficult part for me. if this doesn't pass, then this government will end up punishing british c olumbians brutally again.

british c olumbia Debates13700 t hursday, February 12, 2009 c an you imagine the scenario if they tried to hold the line on deficits — the scenario that they held until February? i know the scenarios exist. i know they were produced by ministries and deputy ministers, so they did look at it.

The t reasury board obviously got pretty spooked about what that would look like. but pass or fail, this bill isn't really part of the solu- tion. it's a part of the problem, and let me explain what i mean. in 2000 the then nDP government passed bill 28, which was the balanced budget a ct. in short, that bill said that government should not run deficits unless there are significant and unforeseen revenue declines or in the case of an emergency — kind of like today.

That was the original legislation. back then the b.c. l iberals opposed that bill, not per- haps because they thought the bill was actually flawed in and of itself, but because they said that you couldn't trust the government. They said that when you trust the government, all the legislation in the world won't make them more accountable. indeed, the Premier was in full rhetorical flight back then. indeed, he bizarrely and somewhat badly, maybe even offensively, drew a historical analogy to that government bill.

The Premier, then opposition leader, said: "We've seen these pieces of paper before. it kind of reminds me of n eville c hamberlain. 'i have in my hand a piece of paper. it will guarantee peace in our time.' We didn't have peace. h aving a piece of paper in your hand does not guarantee balanced budgets." o h, those are stirring words, stirring words indeed. We know what's happened in the interim. The b.c. l iberals were then elected. They promised a brave new era of budgeting to be ushered in. They promised that the deficit dragon can be slain by law forever, and they put it in that law.

Deficits would never again rear their ugly head. "b .c. will never slip back into the red," is in effect what that law that we're amending today said. a nd the fact that we're amending it…. Go back and contrast the fanfare that that government introduced it with. n one of it means anything. e xcept for 2002 and 2003… interjection. R. Fleming: That's what i meant. …which were the record years for the biggest deficits ever in british c olumbia history, this bill came after a billion-dollar surplus. h ere we are.

We're debating the "just kidding" act, the law that cannot be obeyed because it does not fit the reality of how economies and societies work in today's global market system. We're listening to the Finance Minister — he'll close remarks, i assume, shortly in this debate — say with a straight face: "We were serious when we outlawed defi- cits. r eally, we were.

We're sad that we have to break our own law. it really hurts us that we're rewriting a law that we refuse to obey, and that's a respectful way to treat british c olumbians." Finally, i think what the Finance Minister will say, maybe in a couple hours, is: "t rust me when i tell you that i'll outlaw deficits again in 2011.

Just give me an out, and i'll make them illegal again." That's what he's going to say. [1445] That's the real problem with this bill. it insults the intelligence of british c olumbians, and it lowers the honesty of political debate in this province. it's part of a political culture that this government has fostered. it seeks to avoid meaningful discussion and debate. it instead relies on pretty empty rhetoric. i pointed to the Premier's — then opposition leader — remarks, and i think that says it all. i could spend hours, actually, repeating pious, self- righteous quotes from the Premier and the Finance Minister on this legislation and the antecedent before it, but what's the point? i would, though, with some indul- gence, like to refer to one, i think, very, very prescient comment from the Premier when he was opposition leader and opposing bill 28 so many years ago. h e said: "it's amazing how rewriting laws can work for a govern- ment that doesn't really care about the law." Y ou couldn't put the shoe on the other foot any better than that. it pretty much sums up how this Premier and this Finance Minister approach governance in b.c.

They make empty promises. They discard them when they become too inconvenient or too tired. l et me give you a few examples of how that dynamic has worked in b.c. in 2001 the b.c. l iberals committed to making b.c. the most open and accountable govern- ment in c anada. o penness was the watchword of this government. They would make decisions in plain sight. They'd even hold public cabinet meetings because they had nothing to hide. The reality?

Well, let's look at an independent report that was issued not long ago, which said that this gov- ernment had all but destroyed the spirit and intent of freedom-of-information legislation, so much so that british c olumbia is considered one of the least open governments in c anada. of course, open cabinet meet- ings are long gone. Perhaps they only existed in the first place so that the l iberal government could award pro- duction contracts to their friends. but let's take something even simpler. h ow about gov- ernment advertising?

This one is real simple, especially in the context of an economy that is scarce of money and tax resources. h ow about telling the public the truth about spending on ads? They said they'd do it in oppos- ition. They haven't done it in government. They've made that function a mockery. They won't disclose any details, and they hope the public won't notice. They won't tell them how massive

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 12, 2009 13701 this year's taxpayer-funded advertising campaign is. They could, but they know full well that audited state- ments of spending on government feel-good puffery advertising is not going to be available to the taxpayer to scrutinize until July — two months after the election is over. They could disclose it now.

They could actually tell us how much they're spending. in fact, the opposition asked for just that in n ovember, and the Finance Minister said: "n o way. no how." h ere's another example of government saying one thing and doing another. r emember in 2001 we had the commitment to a fixed calendar for the h ouse? That's a great idea. it meant we would have predictable sessions. We'd have orderly business. We'd try and run this place with some common sense and order that worked for both sides of the h ouse. Fast-forward a few years, and that promise has been tossed to the curb as well.

Why? i think it's pretty simple. h aving a session is sometimes really inconvenient for the government. it forces government to answer ques- tions. This government doesn't like to answer questions, as we saw just a half hour ago. h ere's another example of saying one thing and doing another. Y ou'll recall in 2001 that the l iberals committed themselves to repealing gag laws and allowing everyone to participate fully in elections. That's a nice idea. People were all in favour of it. l et's jump ahead to 2008. The l iberals face a competi- tive election, so what do they do?

They impose an even more restrictive gag law on third-party advertising that they committed to get rid of in the first place. it's so cynical. They waited until the eve of the 2009 election to drop this legislation in this h ouse, knowing full well that it can't successfully be challenged in court in time for the election. The a ttorney General can use his subsequent time in his career to explain how com- fortable he is carrying the can for the Premier on that law. i'll leave it to him. [1450] i want to talk again about the context of this bill.

We came back to this h ouse on Monday, and what was the first instinct of this government? The Finance Minister was asked quite properly by the opposition to table the third quarter fiscal report for the province. We know it's available. We have speculation about what it might say, but we don't have it on the public record. Quite rightly, the opposition critic for the Ministry of Finance asked for it. l et the opposition and the public know the full extent of the revenue crisis in british c olumbia while we're debating this legislation.

Y ou've asked the public to bear with you and accept that b.c. isn't going to keep to its own laws and that we're going to return to deficits. Y ou have information show- ing how bad the scale of the crisis is, and you wouldn't table it in the h ouse. That was the very first thing that was done on Monday — a refusal to do that. There's no acceptable reason why that was denied to the opposition or to the public. Then we had the Government h ouse l eader on Monday. h e couldn't help himself. h e brought in an incredibly important bill, potentially worth billions of dollars.

We'll see when the budget is tabled next week — worth billions, though, i'm sure. h e came to the h ouse in the very afternoon and said: "i'd like to proceed immediately to second reading. i don't want to give the opposition any time to read the bill. l et's start immedi- ately. l et's just get out of here and get it done." i can't even believe he asked. r emember, it was a great Premier who i think said: "n ot a dime without debate." What's the watchword of this gov- ernment? in this debate and the one we had in n ovember — the one that we had on the o lympic village…. An Hon.

Member: it was bill bennett, by the way, that said that. R. Fleming: a great Premier, as i said. h e's got a bridge named after him, thanks to this government. What's the watchword of this government, though? it's billions without debate. We saw that with the o lympic village. it was a blank-cheque bill that they wanted to push through in one day, on a Saturday —and the same with this bill. They wanted to skip stages and proper notice for debate and get out of here and go home. Think about it. This is a bill that actually renounces the b.c. l iberals' very reason for political existence.

The Government h ouse l eader wanted to hustle it through the h ouse as quick as he could. That's embarrassing. The Premier was right when he said, all of those years ago: "it's amazing how rewriting laws can work for a gov- ernment that doesn't really care about the law." That's what this debate these past few days has been about right here, under his term as Premier. h e didn't tell us back then that he was talking about his own views on how he would govern, but here we are. We're rewriting a law for a government that doesn't really care about the law. That's what's on display.

This isn't the only law government has passed that it ignores. i mentioned it previously. We've seen for three years this government break a law that it boasted about when it introduced it — a law to protect the k-to-12 education system, to put limits on class size and com- position. We found out the other week that for the three years of existence of that law, every single year the law has been broken.

So when the Premier says that it's amazing how rewriting laws can work for a government that doesn't really care about the law, he was talking about the b.c. l iberals and how they would govern this province — tens of thousands of classrooms not in compliance with the government's own law.

british c olumbia Debates13702 t hursday, February 12, 2009 This government didn't honour the three-year budget commitment they made to our colleges and universi- ties. That was passed. They said they'd provide stable, secure funding for post-secondary education, and then what happened? We were here last March, and at the last minute 2.6 percent of the core budget was cut from all 26 of our public post-secondary institutions that fiscal year. i don't expect we're going to get the truth on what this government knows and when this government knew.

We've talked about how the world crisis was upon us, how every other world leader seemed to know, how even Stephen h arper admitted and worked with others to introduce a very different kind of fiscal package in his government. but in british c olumbia we waited until Groundhog Day to let b.c. in on a secret they already knew, which was that this jurisdiction was inevitably sliding toward deficits.

The revenue collapse was too great to avoid that. [1455] What we should have is an honest piece of deficit control legislation, one that actually fits the ebbs and flows of the economy — a law that's actually informed by the lessons of history and the realities of recessions past in the 1970s, in the 1980s and in the 1990s. n o other province in c anada has the total ban on deficits that b.c . has, and that's for a reason. They don't work. The proof that they don't work is the fact that we're here today debating bill 48. The concern is that dishonest legislation will lead to dishonest budgets.

That's the real concern. i sincerely hope that british c olumbians, because of what this government has done, don't become so cynical and dis- enchanted with government because they don't follow their own laws. i think that will reflect badly on all of us. i thank you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to speak to bill 48 this afternoon, and i take my place. R.

Sultan: a fter listening to the accounting of my friend from Victoria-h illside about the economic situa- tion and the headlines he read — from crashing stock markets to layoffs to shrivelling investment to ruin and decay in all corners of the economy — prefaced by a quo- tation from that famous statesman n eville c hamberlain, i believe it was, who said "peace in our time," i couldn't help but think once again that members of the party opposite and leaders in the party opposite are demon- strating their specialty for always looking at the dark side and putting a negative light on what is admittedly a difficult situation. i couldn't help but think of another quotation from the 1930s in rebuttal.

President r oosevelt, looking at the inactivity and fear and frozen condition of the economy they inherited in 1933, went on the radio and said that the biggest thing we have to fear is fear itself. i would suggest that if we overplay the hand here in your anxiety to display how bad things are, indeed you help create the conditions that we are attempting to overcome. it's not unlike this party's tendency to run down what i personally believe is one of the best health systems in the world, its tendency to point to huge fundamen- tal defects in what i think is one of the greatest public education systems in the world. n ow they're turning their tendency to tear down what has been, in fact, and remains one of the most successful economies we've seen in n orth a merica in recent times.

While criticism is indeed their role, i wish from time to time they offered some constructive alternatives. a bout the only thing i've heard from the party opposite this week, as an alternative to the plans this government is bringing forward, is a proposal, as i understand it, to go out and convince people to lend $10 billion to the government. i'd say be careful of that one. We've seen it before. Well, to turn to the bill at hand, which is why we're here…. o ur Premier has called this early convening of the l egislature to deal with a crisis. We are in a crisis, and i don't want to minimize that.

We're debating the government's first step in responding to the crisis — bill 48, the Deficit a uthorization and Debt e limination a ct. The bill proposes to give the government elbow room to apply remedies by granting them the latitude to run an operating deficit. What crisis are we talking about?

Well, as everybody should know by now, our friend and trading partner and that great engine of economy and democracy and creativity, our largest customer, the u nited States of a merica, is today deeply troubled. on Monday of this week President barack o bama, holding his first press conference since being elected, told the a merican people: "i f there's anybody out there who still doesn't believe this recession constitutes a full-blown crisis, i suggest speaking to…the millions of a mericans whose lives have been turned upside down because they don't know where their next paycheque is coming from." [1500] o bama spoke of a deficit of jobs, a deficit of incomes and a deficit of confidence, and said that this could turn a crisis into a catastrophe. h e said: "i refuse to let that happen." Well, as has happened often in our history, we c anadians have basked in the temporary warmth of crisis postponed, partly through our own superior economic management in this country and in this province, partly through the delayed response to the supply chain. it takes a while to trickle through. but let no one in this h ouse believe that we're immune.

The bad headlines, as the member for Victoria-hillside so elegantly relayed to us just now, are appearing on the front pages. i'll add one of my own, the Globe and Mail on t uesday, headlining: "Western c anada h it h ardest by Decline." The story went on to say: "b.c. and a lberta see swifter and sharper downturns than other provinces as housing slumps and bankruptcies soar."

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 12, 2009 13703 The Premier himself, not mincing words at the economic summit he called in Vancouver last week, reported that government revenues had been dropping like a stone — his phrase. a gain, as he described it, for home heating in this province, dimension lumber is now cheaper to buy than firewood. Such is the state of our largest industry — forestry. What is the government doing about it?

We shall see the outlines of the government's response next week in the Speech from the Throne and the budget tabled before this h ouse. but the shape of the probable response is quite clear: a focus on jobs, jobs and more jobs; stimulate the economy through infrastructure spending and public works; maintain incomes; cut taxes further; continue to invest strongly in health care and education; grant citizens greater flexibility in managing their own financial affairs; encourage long-run produc- tivity improvement; and finally, maintain the financial reporting transparency which — despite denigration from the opposite side — is an award-winner in the accounting profession in c anada and makes this gov- ernment an accounting and accountability model for the world. i truly believe that.

The purpose of bill 48 is to suspend the law adopted about six years ago prohibiting our provincial govern- ment from running an operating deficit. it suspends the law for two years. it also forbids the government from spending any surprise surpluses that might occur in individual ministries along the way through supple- mentary estimates. a ll such surprise surpluses will be allocated by law to continued debt reduction.

The law itself will dissolve in two years when, hopefully, life is restored to something more closely resembling normal. i stress the word "hopefully." n one of us should be under any illusion as to what a government may be compelled to do when faced with the fiscal equivalent of an asteroid impact or a magnitude 10 earthquake.

Put another way, as an old James bond movie once advised, we're once again learning to never say never. a s a completely irrelevant aside and listening to the debate over this week here in this l egislature, i must say it's been quite an education in accounting and the phil- osophies of financial intermediation.

Some disparage the existence of banks, it seems to me, as if we could somehow get along without financial intermediation in the economy. i have to, as again an outrageous aside, declare my disagreement with l aertes, who 400 years ago told his son: "n either a borrower nor a lender be, for loan oft loses both itself and friend." only a barter society could live up to those words. indeed, sometimes i think that's exactly the sort of society our friends on the benches opposite are advocating. [1505] i also hear a certain amount of confusion, if not deliberate intent to mislead, as people seem to switch interchangeably between debt and deficit — two rather different things — and as we hear people declaiming about borrowing to cover operating deficits as opposed to purchase assets. indeed, my dear friend from Victoria- h illside talks about the $13 billion number he pulled out of the air. it doesn't really surprise me, given the airport expansions, given the hospital construction, considering the seismic upgrades this government's been involved in, considering all of the infrastructure activity that has characterized the economy since this government came to power. t o suggest, as they seem to, that this should be financed on a pay-as-you-go basis from current taxes is just wishful thinking. it may have been way back in the early days of Wacky bennett that such things were possible.

Perhaps my friend the former Speaker of the h ouse could enlighten me, but i would think that even then Mr. bennett realized that to finance some of these huge, huge capital projects, you had to go out and borrow money, and that is hardly irresponsible. Well, in borrowing and lending, however, if they are inevitable, there are some reasonable limits, and i think this is partly what the debate's all about: what are the reasonable limits? What is our borrowing and lending situation?

Well, one important indicator for governments is the ratio of debt to gross domestic product or GDP . l ooking at the c anadian federal government for starters, their debt-to-GDP ratio peaked at around 40 percent in 1995. i believe Jean c hrétien was in power, if i'm not mistaken. u nder Stephen h arper it's declined to 28 percent. The feds are now projecting it to go back up to 32 percent over the next couple years as they provide a little help on the operating side until better days arrive.

With a stimulus package federally of about 1 percent of GDP in each of two years, the feds have temporarily forsaken their goal of driving the debt ratio down to 25 percent. n evertheless, i repeat, as a country we've man- aged our affairs more prudently than the a mericans, and as a province we have managed our affairs more prudently than other provinces of c anada — and i would say that across the board — and, for that matter, more prudently than any other G7 country.

This is a golden moment in the fiscal history of c anada, when we can look at those ratios on the last page of the l ondon Economist, as i did last night just to remind myself, and see: "Wow, we have a great report card on the ratios." n ow, look at the u nited States by contrast.

The barack o bama stimulus package is closer to 6 percent of their GDP , compared to our 1 or 2 percent — a startling contrast. it makes the u .S. plunge into further deficit spending, far greater than our own. a s one a merican expert, David Smick, put it recently: "t oo much debt is never a good thing, and in many respects, a mericans may be living on borrowed time." c ontinuing with Smick's quotation: "i t's important to keep things in

british c olumbia Debates13704 t hursday, February 12, 2009 perspective." h e says a merica's gross national federal government debt, at 65 percent of GDP , is less than Germany, which is all of 67 percent. i wouldn't say a 2 percent margin is much to brag about. a gain, i interject my own comments, admittedly. Japan's debt is roughly three times larger at 176 percent of their economy.

Smick went on to say that the critical point is this: "Whether the u .S. financial system avoids catastrophe depends on more than merely correcting financial imbalances as measured by these ratios. a s important as that goal remains, most likely it depends on the dual fears of a lack of financial transparency caused by the u .S. sub-prime mess and the effect of the housing crisis on consumer demand." h mm. l ack of financial transparency and the hous- ing crisis. Well, we've had some experience with that in this province.

The nDP government of a decade ago provided a vivid object lesson on the first point — how to erode the credibility of public financial statements, a core root of the global financial problem today. n obody knows what to believe anymore, and it's a problem which motivated this government's well-intentioned corrective laws when it took over from the nDP , as we're all aware. [1510] a s for the second point — the housing crisis — we must thank the good judgment of our banking system for steering c anada around the worst of those sub- prime mortgage misjudgments, which plague the u nited States today and which, through obscure securitization, became embedded in financial institutions all around the world like a hidden, toxic waste.

We still haven't figured out exactly where they are, and even when we identify them, we're not quite sure what to do with them. Financial transparency and housing — two key vari- ables. What does the nDP have to say about all of this?

Well, not much, it appears, but it doesn't stop persons opposite from talking about it for many days. but let's give credit where credit is due. in reality, it appears they agreed with the government's core fiscal strategy prior to the financial crisis. l et me repeat that. it appears the nDP agreed with the government's core fiscal strategy prior to the financial crisis, and it appears they also agree with steps taken by the government since the financial crisis.

Partisan politics aside — and it's always fun to throw the odd spitball at one another across this two and a half sword lengths that separates us — the spirit of unanim- ity in this h ouse among all members of this l egislature is in fact helpful and, i think, positive, and it diminishes the fear that can freeze us into inactivity and lack of eco- nomic transactions. a s, for example, the member for Malahat–Juan de Fuca pointed out — and i salute his balanced commen- tary — we're all in this together in terms of passing laws which, with the benefit of hindsight, perhaps had an ele- ment of hubris in them. i think responsibility for that, i heard him saying, is shared equally on both sides, and i would have to agree with the member for Malahat–Juan de Fuca. t o illustrate, precrisis the l eader of the o pposition said: "Don't agree with deficits. i think a balanced budget is critical," cknW , o ctober 23, 2008.

"The balanced budget act is there. it's going to remain, and i believe we need to balance our budgets" — cknW , again on o ctober 23. n ow, post-crisis, the l eader of the o pposition quoted again: "i've said all along that i believe in bal- anced budgets. i believe in fiscal responsibility, but i also believe in common sense" — hmm, the door's opening a crack — CTV News, January 28 of this year. e choing this sentiment, the member for c ariboo n orth is quoted as saying: "We've seen a federal throne speech that's talking about the potential for deficits, and it may not be the time to work within mandatory bal- anced budgets." So my ear tells me there's really no huge gap between what the government is saying and what the opposition party has been saying on the subject of balanced budgets and the need to temporarily suspend this law.

Since they appear to my ear to agree with the sub- stance of bill 48, what new insights are being launched in these days of debate from benches opposite? Well, midst the many peaks of oratory achieved yesterday, my favourite was the member for Delta n orth who said that we're in a deficit position today because the Premier was sleep-deprived. i didn't quite see the connection, but that's his allegation. on such firm foundations the nDP would build its budgets. a nother familiar refrain was heard from the member from Maple r idge who blamed the usual suspects, the big banks.

Since our need to thaw the world banking system is at the heart of our global recovery effort and since c anadian banks are now celebrated around the world for their wisdom and the fact they're still continu- ing to actually function, to villainize them now seems a bit strange. indeed, this debate is an opportune moment to con- trast the nDP versus the b.c. l iberal government track record on red ink, matters fiscal and the indebtedness of governments. on this topic there is a huge gap between the two parties. i'll recite three of them, but i will quote again my friend from Victoria-h illside who referred to "the biggest defi- cit ever" as a condemnation of the fiscal irresponsibility of the b.c. l iberals once they were elected.

Well, let's look at the reality — three measures. [1515] The debt-to-GDP ratio. a s i mentioned earlier, the b.c. taxpayer-supported debt to GDP ratio was a pid- dling 12 percent when the nDP took office in 1991. it was just a shade under 22 percent when they left office, almost doubled. Since that time, this b.c. l iberal gov-

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 12, 2009 13705 ernment has driven it back down to within 2 percentage points of where it stood when the nDP started out. but it took seven years to erase a decade of what i would call not the greatest fiscal management. Second measure. c onsider the operating debt of the government, and again, let's not get confused between capital and operations.

The operating debt of government — that is, government debt other than that invested in infrastructure and physical assets like bridges and power dams and so on — was $6.6 billion when the n DP came to office in the early '90s. When they left office, it was $12 billion, double the operating debt in a decade, and it has since been driven back to $6 billion by this government, to where it was when the nDP first came back to power. Third measure. c onsider the province's credit rating.

These are the green eyeshade boys who look at all the fine print of the balance sheets to figure out what's really going on and where all the bad stories are hidden in the footnotes. a nd here's their report card on b.c. govern- ment fiscal performance. in the 1990s the nDP received two credit-rating downgrades, raising the cost of borrowing to taxpayers, on debt itself, which was mushrooming. Since coming to office, this government has achieved eight credit upgrades, to the point where we now have one of the best credit ratings in the world from Standard and Poor's and Moody's investors Service.

This saves the taxpayer tens of millions of dollars of interest each year. a ll things considered, in a crisis atmosphere where the credibility of published figures and the conservatism of balance sheets has become critical to economic recovery, whom would you rather have in charge — the fudge- it budget crowd or the government who gets glowing report cards from the rating agency bean counters?

Well, they're maybe not as exciting, but i'd vote for the latter. bill 48 is therefore a bill that i support and that every member of this l egislature should and, i forecast, will support. it's not only an essential piece of legislation in troubled times, but it has also conveniently provided british c olumbians with an opportunity to contemplate the economic philosophies, the leadership style, and the calibre of thinking which underlies two great parties con- tending for citizen support in the upcoming election. british c olumbians will have the further opportunity to contrast these two next week when the Speech from the Throne and the budget are brought down.

For me, the decision is quite obvious. in troubled economic times, with jobs and households on the line, go with experience and track record. This is not the time for leadership experimentation or discredited ideology. J.

Kwan: i rise to enter into the debate on bill 48, the bill that is to allow for the government to bring forward deficit financing and a bill that incorporates also a debt elimination aspect to it. before i sort of get into the details of the bill, i do actually want to just talk a little bit about the history of debts and deficits financing over the years and to correct the minister for small business, technology and econ- omy. i think that's her title. [1520] i just want to say very clearly that in 1991 the incom- ing nDP administration inherited a huge deficit. n ot as big a deficit as the current l iberal Party brought in when they were in government, when Gary Farrell-c ollins was the Minister of Finance — not as big as that, because that was the biggest in the history of british c olumbia. in 1991, when the nDP came into office, they inher - ited a pretty big deficit — yes, from the Socreds, some of whom are sitting around this table here today in this l egislature, in this very chamber.

The Social credit gov- ernment left the nDP with a $2.5 billion deficit when they left office. in 1991, under the leadership of Mike h arcourt…. Many would know of him and know him well, for he is still active in our communities today, working hard as ever, driving the issues of sustainability, amongst many issues. u nder his leadership and the subsequent nDP government, they actually brought the debt down significantly, to the point that…. by golly gee, when the nDP left office in 2001, guess what happened?

The nDP actually left the l iberals a surplus, and not a small sur - plus, i might add, but a $1.4 billion surplus. That's the history of what happened here on deficit financing in the province of british c olumbia. it was this l iberal government that inherited a surplus budget from the nDP , then went on to create the largest deficit in the history of british c olumbia. Y es, the government of the day, the l iberal government, created a $3.076 billion deficit — under the l iberals, on their watch, the largest deficit in the history of british c olumbia.

So all the l iberals who claimed that the nDP left them deficits — they're wrong. They're dead wrong. if they want to suggest that i'm wrong, all they need to do is check the a uditor General's books, because it tells all in that document. That document does not lie. it states very clearly that it was the nDP who left this govern- ment a $1.4 billion surplus, and it was this government that created the largest deficit in the history of british c olumbia, a $3.1 billion deficit. i just want to set that record straight because i've heard over this past week….

"i naccuracies" is a minor way of describing this. it's an understatement, but i would want to stay parliamentary in this h ouse. i heard stuff that came out of the mouths of cabinet ministers, who've been around, who sat through this period of time, who ought to know the information and know the truth and should be speaking the truth in this very l egislature and didn't. Shame on them. i just want to also say that the l iberals created the largest deficit in the history of british c olumbia. l et us just be clear. That deficit was manufactured by the

british c olumbia Debates13706 t hursday, February 12, 2009 l iberal government, because they created a tax cut for the wealthy and they took from the poor. They took from the poor by eliminating some of the most critical programs that the poorest of the poor relied on. in the midst of all of that, they called it a structural deficit. The structural deficit, it turns out, was a result of the tax cuts to the wealthiest british c olumbians. That's what happened. [1525] i also want to say that the government says about this situation we're in: "o h, but we didn't know.

We didn't know about the world economy collapsing all around us. We didn't anticipate this at all." really? l et me just go back and review some of the warning signs that the l iberals might have picked up. i don't know, maybe it's just me, but dating as far back as 2008, here are some of the headlines from last year. January 2008 — a year ago: "a re Politicians r eady for a r ecession? Probably n ot," Vancouver Sun .

January 22, 2008, Vancouver Sun: "b.c . c ompanies l ose billions in c rash." February 16, 2008, Vancouver Sun: " c anadian Factory o utput Plunges." March 26, 2008: "r eady for a Slump? a s b.c .'s e conomy c ools, h ow Well a re We Prepared?" March 27, 2008: "Drop in b.c .'s business o ptimism c ited as o men for e conomy." March 29, 2008, Vancouver Sun: "b .c. e conomy expected to c ool in 2008." l et's turn to a different paper — the Province. a pril 24, 2008: "r etail Sales l oss h ammers l oonie." June 12, 2008: "c anada's industrial c apacity u tilization Slumps." June 24, 2008 — back to the Sun: "Denying income inequality Won't Make it Go a way." Then a litany of articles between July and a ugust in 2008.

"Pesky Statistics a re r aining on l iberals' e conomic Parade." a nother one: "c onsumer c onfidence at l owest l evel in Five Y ears." a nother one: "l eaders Must Focus on the e conomic and Financial c risis u nfolding before u s." a nother one: " e conomic Growth Slowing in b.c ." a nother one: " c anada's h ousing bubble c ould Soon burst, Merrill l ynch Warns." "c ommodity index Drops; Global Sell-off c ontinues." That's now in September 2008. "Global crisis ends Plans for b.c. Pulp Mill," 2008. This goes on.

There are pages and pages of headlines in each and every month in the papers, talking about the economic meltdown that's happening and, yes, touch- ing british c olumbia too. Y es, right up to January, all through the year. a nd i can go on with many of these headlines. but what did we hear? What did we hear from the Minister of Finance as this was happening all around him? h e is the guy who should be in the know, who actually gets the briefings, the support from the staff — the excellent staff, i might add — who would provide him with the information. What does he say?

Well, he says on n ovember 21, 2008: "There is nothing on the horizon that would suggest the province is at risk of going into recession." Well, i've got to ask this question. Where the heck has the Minister of Finance been? it's sort of just like him on the o lympic file. h e refuses to tell british c olumbians the truth on the cost overruns of the o lympics. t urns out that on his main file he has no idea what's going on. a s recently as n ovember he says, "everything is just fine in british c olumbia," yet every headline you pick up in the newspapers as far back as at least a year ago gives you the warning

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0212pm 06
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0212pm 06
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0d5e870e07c0ded38ee8da91eb2c7bfb0716e075

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).