British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, March 23, 2006 (38th Parliament, 2nd Session) (H0323pm-02) (H0323pm 02)

H0323pm-02

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, March 23, 2006 Afternoon Sitting Volume 8, Number 2 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC SECOND SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts .........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) ............................................................... East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP)........................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................

Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)..............................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)..............................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay....................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson .....................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S.

Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock .....................................................................Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Thursday, March 23, 2006 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 3231 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ......................................... 3231 Small Business and Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 14) Hon. R. Thorpe Income Trust Liability Act (Bill 13) Hon. C.

Taylor Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 15) Hon. M. de Jong Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 3232 Hartley Bay N. Simons Surrey business awards for cultural diversity D. Hayer Kamloops BusinessCARE program M. Karagianis Life-saving awards R. Lee Paralympic athletes C. Puchmayr Val Anderson D.

Jarvis Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 3234 Safety of northern ferries C. Trevena Hon. K. Falcon B. Ralston M. Farnworth Access to B.C. Ferries information M. Farnworth Hon. K. Falcon Forest worker safety C. Puchmayr Hon. M. de Jong Health and safety impacts of deregulation M. Karagianis Hon. M. de Jong TransLink governance review panel D. Chudnovsky Hon. K. Falcon Community film commission funding R. Fleming Hon. O. Ilich HarbourLynx tax exemption J.

Horgan Hon. R. Thorpe Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. .................................................... 3239 Aberfeldie redevelopment, capital project plan report Coquitlam dam seismic improvement project, capital project plan report Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 3239 J. Rustad

Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 3239 Estimates: Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance Hon. C. Richmond C. Trevena Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 3257 Estimates: Ministry of Children and Family Development (continued) A. Dix Hon. S. Hagen S. Fraser

3231 THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 The House met at 2:03 p.m. Introductions by Members S. Fraser: It gives me great pleasure to welcome a friend from my constituency, chief councillor Keith Atleo, all the way in from Ahousaht today. Would you please join me in welcoming him. R. Hawes: Every year, each of us suffers — yes, we do suffer — a n anniversary that som e of u s choose to forget. That's our birthday. Today is the birthday of our deputy Whip, and I would like to wish him…. He tells us he is 40-ish, and as a po litician, I know he always tells the truth. So happy birthday to the deputy Whip. Hon. R.

Neufeld: It is a great pleasure for me to actually introduce a cons tituent from Peace River North, Stephanie Neraasen. She has lived in Fort St. John for seven years, works at the Oil and Gas Com- mission, and is a senior exec utive assistant in the ex- ecutive office of the Oil and Gas Commission in Fort St. John. Along with her is Kate La Vertu, who also works for the OGC, but in the Victoria office. Would the House make them welcome, please. D.

Hayer: I'm pleased to introduce today some very special guests: my constituents Dan and Frieda Reimer and their five great-grandda ughters: Ariel Reimer, 16; Meaghan Nickelson, 13; Rebecca Nickelson, ten; and Sarah Nickelson, six, and Jennifer Nickelson, six, are twins. All these great-grandchildren come from the riding of my colleague from Prince George North, the Minis- ter of Agriculture and Lands. They are here to visit our Parliament Buildings and learn about how the gov- ernment works, as well as Victoria. Would the House please make them very welcome. [1405] Hon. B.

Penner: It's an honour for me to introduce two members of a longstanding conservation organiza- tion in British Columbia. Joining us today in the gallery are Tony Toth and Shaun Hollingsworth of the B.C. Wildlife Federation. Tony, as many members know, is the executive director of the B.C. Wildlife Federation, and Shaun Hollingsworth is the vice-president and treasurer. I ask that the House please make them welcome. R. Fleming: It's my great pleasure to introduce a friend of mine who is with us in the gallery today, Adrienne Mercer, who also accompanied by a young woman named Indigo Smart.

Indigo is a seven-year- old. She lives in James Bay. She's in grade two in French immersion at Sir James Douglas School in Fair- field. This young woman has a lot of questions about the provincial government. This is her first trip to the Legislature. Will the House please make them both feel welcome. M. Farnworth: It's my pleasure to rise in the House and introduce Ms. Lynn Robinson and Mr. Laurence Hall and the students of Irvi ne Elementary School in my riding. Could the House please join me in welcom- ing them.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills SMALL BUSINESS AND REVENUE STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 H o n . R . T h o r p e p r e s e n t e d a m e s s a g e f r o m H e r Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Small Business and Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2006. Hon. R. Thorpe: I move Bill 14 be introduced and read for the first time now. Motion approved. Hon. R. Thorpe: This bill proposes a number of amendments to the taxation and revenue statutes ad- ministered by the Ministry of Small Business and Revenue.

These amendments are made to ensure streamlining and simplification of how business is done in British Columbia, ensure fairness and equity for taxpayers, and enforce the laws of British Colum- bia. The bill proposes amendments to the Assessment Act, the Income Tax Act, the International Financial Activity Act, the Property Transfer Tax Act, the Taxa- tion (Rural Area) Act and the Tobacco Tax Act. I will elaborate on the nature of these amendments during second reading of this bill. I move that Bill 14 be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 14, Small Business and Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2006, introd uced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for sec- ond reading at the next sitting of the House after today. INCOME TRUST LIABILITY ACT Hon. C. Taylor presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled In- come Trust Liability Act. Hon. C. Taylor: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. C. Taylor: I'm pleased to introduce the In- come Trust Liability Act.

This new legislation will en- sure that investors in public ly traded income trusts are protected from being required to use their personal assets to indemnify trustees for their actions or defaults and will limit the scope of potential loss to an investor

3232 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 to the amount invested, a concept familiar to share- holders of a corporation. This new legislation will ap- ply only to publicly traded income trusts and will not affect any other trust relationships or liability. I move the bill be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 13, Income Trust Liability Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. MISCELLANEOUS STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 H o n .

M . d e J o n g p r e s e n t e d a m e s s a g e f r o m H e r Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Mis- cellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2006. [1410] Hon. M. de Jong: Mr. Speaker, I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. M. de Jong: Bill 15 amends various statutes to, in some cases, clarify provisions; in a couple of cases, alter the provisions; and in a number of cases, make some genuinely minor housekeeping amend- ments.

Specifically, Bill 15 amends the following statutes: the Employee Investment Act, the Environmental Management Act, the Financial Information Act, the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, the Greater Vancouver Transp ortation Authority Act, the Human Resource Facility Act, the Innovation and Science Council Act, the Integrated Pest Management Act, the Motor Vehicle Act, the Protected Areas of Brit- ish Columbia Act, the Small Business Venture Capital Act, the Transportation Act and the University Act.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 15, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2006, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) HARTLEY BAY N. Simons: Just over 36 hours have passed since the Queen of the North sank off Gil Island, in the unfor- giving waters of the Inside Passage. I'm sure that all members of the House join me in hoping that the two missing passengers will be found. Our thoughts are with their families. Our thoughts are also with the captain and his crew. Few of us can likely imagine the tremendous emotional stress this incident has caused. We must acknowledge their professionalism and training and thank them for doing their jobs well.

We must also acknowledge the men and women of the Coast Guard, who we sometimes take for granted but who provide such a valuable service. As is often the case in the midst of a tragedy, we learn something new about each other. Recognizing that two people are still mi ssing and knowing that en- vironmental damage of an unknown scale is taking place, we also learned, in this case, about the little community of Hartley Bay — home of the Gitga'at Na- tion, the little village with the big heart. Members of the Tsimshian cultural group, this community lies about 145 kilometres southeast of Prince Rupert.

In the rain and wind of early yesterday morning, their help was needed. With their VHF radios by their beds or on their kitchen tabl es, they heard the distress call. They have been taught by the older generation and from commercial fishers that the sea must always be respected and that it is active 24 hours a day. Every- one knows of its beauty and riches but also of its dan- gers. Without question or hesitation they launched their boats, they gathered blankets, and food was prepared in the hope that survivors would be brought to the shore and would need their care.

Within a few hours the community centre was filling up with passengers needing warmth and sustenan ce. The big-hearted little village provided the frighten ed passengers with what they needed before the Coast Guard vessel Sir Wilfrid Laurier took them to Prince Rupert. This is primarily a sad story — for the two missing passengers, for the loss of a beautiful ship, for the fear that's etched in the minds of those who were on board and for the poisons that have spilled into our waters.

But it's also a story about the strength of the little vil- lage and the strength of character that emerges in a time of difficulty — a story of the band members; the residents of Hartley Bay; the Tsimshian Nation, our first nations brothers and sisters; commercial fishers; and the coastal communities in general. SURREY BUSINESS AWARDS FOR CULTURAL DIVERSITY D.

Hayer: I want to take this opportunity to talk about some very successful businesses in my commu- nity and to congratulate those who, last night, were the winners of the Surrey Delta Immigrant Services Soci- ety's 11th Annual Culture and Diversity Awards for Business. I attended these events last night in the riding of Surrey-Tynehead with two of my colleagues. I was tremendously impre ssed with the quality and the success of the finalists who were up for the awards.

This annual acknowledgme nt of Surrey businesses which have succeeded in cultural diversity is some- thing that all British Columbians can be very proud of. The success of these businesses is based on the owner-

THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3233 ship, the management and the employees who, by all working together, contribute to this excellent work. Eleven years ago when I was the president of Sur- rey Chamber of Commerce, I helped on the committee that started these awards. I am very proud to have at- tended each of these award nights. [1415] Today I want to congratulate all the finalists and recognize those who won last night.

Winning the award for businesses with one to 25 employees was my constituent from Surrey-Tynehead Catherine Levan, president of Kickstart Communications; for youth en- trepreneur, Ms. Sendip Gill and her business SRS Pack- aging Services; for the corporate category, Tony Singh, president of Fruiticana. For a business with 26 employees, owner Anand Kishore and Canada Washworld ; in the not-for-profit category, Jim King, executive director of the Surrey Crime Prevention Society; and in the public institutions category, Surrey Public Library.

I ask the House to join me in congratulating all those outstanding award win- ners. KAMLOOPS BUSINESSCARE PROGRAM M. Karagianis: In Kamloops last week a number of us here in the opposition caucus heard about a marvel- lous business assistance initiative that's being run by Venture Kamloops, a very successful program called BusinessCARE. BusinessCARE provides coaching ser- vices to new business ventures or businesses that want to expand.

The goal of the program is to establish rela- tionships between community businesses and eco- nomic developers, and to strengthen existing compa- nies, establish early warning systems to flag at-risk businesses that might require assistance and, further, to ensure that programs meet local business needs. BusinessCARE provides two options for coaching. The basic model provides a feasibility assessment for new startups and business in the early stage of the op- erations. A coach works with the new business on where to start or how to move forward.

The first hour of coaching is free, and the fees beyond that are very modest. The service is confidential, one-to-one, and can last as long as the client needs it. The advance model is for existing business that is growing and expanding their operations or may need m o r e i n - d e p t h c o a c h i n g i n o r d e r t o p r o g r e s s . I n t h a t situation, a team of specialized business coaches work with the business, covering topics that include market- ing, financial management, human resources, person- nel development, and health and safety.

There are no eligibility criteria for participants other than a desire to access coaching as a tool to move their business for- ward. BusinessCARE has a terrific track record. Eighty- eight percent of the new businesses that have opened are still operating after a three-year period, 131 clients have been retained from previous years, and 155 new coaching clients came on board in 2004. Those were the most recent statistics they had. It is a great model for other communities to emu- late.

I would like to say co ngratulations to Venture Kamloops for really coming up with a successful and innovative program, and I would hope that is the kind of program other communities can benefit from. LIFE-SAVING AWARDS R. Lee: Last Saturday I had the honour to meet some great British Columbians who had courageously rescued others under very dangerous situations. They are medal recipients of the Lifesaving Society. At the 94th annual Commonwealth honour and rescue awards ceremony, eight volunteers earned certificates of thanks or service medals.

Nicole Liddell received a service cross for her ef- forts in establishing supports to water incident research and life-saving sport competitors. Silver medals were presented to Curtis Besse, Dean Rochon, Lyle Armour, Clinton Coutts, Eloise Drake, Ron Moyen, Lucia Gauvin, Kelly Sherman, Jim Sutherland and Kylie Walsh for meritorious services in saving lives. Silver medals for bravery, which acknowledge rescue involving significant acts of bravery, were awarded to Hal Fraser Bringeland, Darwyn Hermann, Brad Reber, Garnet Smith and Clayton Hickey.

Clayton Hickey was also presented with a gover- nor's gold medal for the most heroic rescue of the year. He rescued a three-year-old boy trapped under an overturned and sunken bo at near the Nanaimo har- b o u r l a s t s u m m e r . B y a c t i n g q u i c k l y , d i v i n g i n t o t h e dark water, reaching arou nd and clutching the small leg, he managed to bring the boy to the surface, saving his life. The boy's father said: "I don't think just anyone could have done that. Some people act, and some peo- ple think.

But he acted, and I think he is a hero, whether he admits it or not." Bravery is a precious virtue. I would like the House to join me in honouring these brave British Columbians. [1420] PARALYMPIC ATHLETES C. Puchmayr: Last Sunday, March 19, the 2006 Paralympic Games wrapped up in Torino, Italy. The games take place three weeks after the closing of the first Olympic Games in the same host city using the same facilities. The Paralymp ics are open to athletes with physical and sensory disabilities, including ampu- tees and athletes with cerebral palsy, mobility disabili- ties and visual disabilities.

The name Paralympics derives from the Greek word para, which means alongside, in reference to the competition being held in parallel to the Olympic Games. The first Paralympic Games were held in Rome in 1960, and the first Paralympic Winter Games were held in Sweden in 1976. Canada sent 34 athletes, of whom eight were from British Columbia. Alpine skiing — Matthew Hallat of Coquitlam, Brad Lennea of Whistler, Scott Patterson

3234 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 of Vancouver, Bobby Taylor of West Vancouver and Lauren Wolstencroft of Victoria. In wheelchair curling, the gold medal was won by Gerald Austgarden of Westbank, Gary Cormack of Surrey and Sonja Gaudet of Vernon. Daniel Wesley is a member of my community, and he is a longtime Paralympian. He won three medals in Salt Lake City: one gold, on e silver and one bronze. He also blazed the trail for generations of elite athletes with disabilities.

Lauren Wolstencroft is known as the Winter Para- lympic golden girl — an incredible athlete who has been skiing since she was four years old. Paralympians surmount many barriers and choose to compete for the thrill of sport. The Paralympics em- body the true Olympic spirit. Let's please acknowledge all the athletes in Canada, including the athletes in Brit- ish Columbia, who represented us so proudly in the Paralympic Games. VAL ANDERSON D. Jarvis: I'd like to talk about a friend of mine, Val Anderson, who is also an old friend of this Legislature after having served almost 14 years here.

Val has just had recent surgery, and it was not successful, unfortu- nately. He is moving to palliative care soon. Mr. Speaker, as you know, Val is a very kind and gentle man. On research of Hansard, it shows that in his 14 years he spoke on 3,316 specific subjects. I want to put on record a letter that Val has writ- ten to the MLAs of this province, and I hope you will bear with me. An open letter to all British Columbia MLAs. Greetings, and thanks for your many letters and mes- sages of personal support. They mean a lot.

I have had much time to reflect, and so I would like to share what I believe are two of the most important principles of government that are often taken for granted and overlooked. The first principle is the need for governments to en- compass an appreciation of family relationships. Every person, whether or not they consider themselves cur- rently part of a family union, has or has had the experi- ence of a family relationship. So to care for a person, one must always take into account the nature of that family and its relationship. To do otherwise is to contribute to the problem and to make it unsolvable.

This awareness does not seem often to be present in the workings of gov- ernment agencies. A second principle is that the legislation must not only be legal, but more importantly, it must be fair. It may indeed be that a number of the legislative acts are unjust to an individual or group of individuals. Many in- terpretations of legal language create and/or prevent jus- tice in the name of right action. Laws should be made to protect those in need rather than creating more inequi- ties. Concern and compassion must overrule bureau- cratic and political persuasions.

To do anything less con- tinues to create an unjust society for many. L a w s n e e d t o b e r e - e x a m i n e d c o n t i n u a l l y t o s e e i f they protect the individual or groups in our society. Unless we care and are very vigilant, many will suffer every day for being who they are, often because of cir- cumstances beyond their control. Not to treat them with respect and support them in opportunities is to fail in our duties as MLAs. After all, our aim is to affirm them in their recoveries, especially by having faith in them.

Thank you for your patience in reading this letter and perhaps talking to each other about these principles as you work together to do the right thing. After all, our aim is to support those in their recovery by believing that will help and that they can renew their lives. Sincerely yours, Val Anderson, MLA [1425] Mr. Speaker: Val, I understand you are watching, and I just want to say, on behalf of all of us, our prayers are with you. [Applause.] Oral Questions SAFETY OF NORTHERN FERRIES C.

Trevena: I think the whole House is anxious about the fate of the two people missing after the sink- ing of the Queen of the North . Our thoughts must go to their families. But we have also got to continue to ask questions about the safety of the northern fleet. We are getting conflicting views from the Premier, who says that the fleet is safe, and the Tran sportation Minister, who won't commit and says it's up to the Transportation Safety Board. This is our marine high way, and these are our fer- ries. We pay $127 million a year, and the Minister of Finance is the sole shareholder.

So I would like to ask the Minister of Transportation whether he can assure my constituents and all B.C.'e rs that the northern ferry fleet is safe. Hon. K. Falcon: Yes, I can assure the member that the vessels that ply the waters of British Columbia are safe. In fact, I can assure the member that B.C. Ferries has one of the best safety records in the world. Now, having said that, that member knows and certainly members of the opposition that were in gov- ernment during the 1990s know that there have been incidents, including during the 1990s, where there have been some horrific accident s that have taken place.

Indeed, there have even been some fatalities. Every member of this House knows that our thoughts and prayers go out to all those th at suffer injuries or indeed even fatalities in some of these incidents that have taken place. But I want that member to know that every single vessel is certified by Transport Canada and has to re- ceive an annual inspection certificate. In fact, the Queen of the North received hers a number of weeks ago — on March 2, I believe was the date. That is a top-to-bottom survey to ensure that that vessel is capable of plying the waters in a safe manner.

THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3235 As a final point, that vessel has been plying the waters of the Inside Passage for over 25 years without incident. I think that goes to the safety issue. Mr. Speaker: The member for North Island has a supplemental. C. Trevena: Yes, the Queen of the North may have been working for 25 years and have an annual inspec- tion certificate, but I know that the minister and the government had some further information about the fleet and about this particular vessel — information that the public no longer has because B.C.

Ferries isn't accountable to this House or to the public. At a meeting of the North and Mid-Coast Ferry Advisory Committee in November 2001, the CEO at the time, Bob Lingwood, pr esented the following in- formation about the Queen of the North . In 2001 he said: "The damage stability regulation means that the vessel will be used only in calmer periods of the year." Surely, March on the north coast is not one of the most calm periods of the year. I would like to ask the minister whether he can ex plain why nothing appears to have been done with this information and why the Queen of the North was still operating.

Hon. K. Falcon: I think it's worth pointing out for the benefit of the member that since 2001, there has been over $16 million in expenditure made on that ves- sel to improve the safety of that vessel, to overhaul the engines, to do some deck work. That has been exten- sive. But the member should also know — and one of the things I mentioned yesterday in the House that I'll reinforce today — that we do have an obligation to be a little bit careful in not making assumptions about what may or may not have caused this very serious incident.

One thing that might give the member comfort is to know that the Transportation Safety Board, which is an organization that…. I know of no one…. No independ- ent person has ever criticized their ability or integrity to get to the bottom of these problems. [1430] The member should know that the investigations they undertake include revi ewing all records, inter- viewing all the crews, interviewing all the passengers and, of course, doing comput er simulations. They will do whatever it takes to try and get to the bottom of what caused this very unfortunate incident. Mr.

Speaker: The member for North Island has a further supplemental. C. Trevena: I'm not making assumptions, nor am I questioning the thoroughne ss of the Transportation Safety Board's investigation, but this government does have a certain amount of responsibility for the safety of the vessels. This is information that was presented by the then CEO of B.C. Ferries in November 2001 when this government was in power and the minister was at that cabinet table. If I can tell the minister what Mr. Lingwood had to say at the same time about the Queen of Prince Rupert.

This is the vessel the Queen of the North is replacing, and the vessel that's about to return to service. The CEO said in November 2001: "The damage stability regulation and the level-two survey work on the Queen of Prince Rupert means that the vessel is no longer ser- viceable beyond 2004. Therefore, an appropriate used vessel must be located on the market or a new ship constructed." I would like to ask the Mi nister of Transportation why no action was taken by his government to meet these concerns. Hon. K.

Falcon: I do think that question gives rise to a larger issue — an issue that was very important to our government. In 2001 we inherited a B.C. Ferry Corp. that was, frankly, in chaos. There was a complete lack of leadership, there was very damaged morale, and there was a history of some just absolutely appall- ing capital investment decisi ons that starved the fleet of the ability to have some commonsense investments made. As a result of that, we followed the recommenda- tions of three independent reports, including the Audi- tor General, that had one common suggestion.

That suggestion was that you needed to set up an independ- ent authority, independent of political and bureaucratic interference, so that they could move forward, as they are now today, on an investment program that is the largest in the history of the B.C. Ferries Corp. over 46 years. They are investing hundreds of millions of dollars in new vessels. They have retrofitted 28 of the 35 vessels in the fleet, and they continue to acquire and build new vessels to make sure they can have a fleet that is operat- ing as safely as possible for all British Columbians. B.

Ralston: Indeed, the government did make choices after 2001. But the government also knew in November 2001 that the ships of the northern fleet were not in compliance with Transport Canada regula- tions. Mr. Lingwood, the CEO of B.C. Ferries, said of the Queen of Chilliwack , also part of the northern fleet: "The damage stability regulation means that ships will not be serviceable after the 2003 summer service

schedule and must be retired." That was information provided to the government in November 2001. Why does it appear that the government ignored this infor- mation and only began to ac t on this information close to some five years later? Hon. K. Falcon: I think the member perhaps inad- vertently is ignoring the information that I'm sharing with the members of the tens of millions of dollars that were invested in those vessels.

I think the member also conveniently overlooks an important fact, and that is that Transport Canada will not certify any vessel to operate in the waters of British Columbia unless they meet their annual inspection certificate. That is a very rigorous top-to-bottom review of these vessels.

3236 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 In fact, I have spoken in the past to a former inspec- tor who worked with Transport Canada, and I spoke specifically about the issue of ferry safety following a meeting I had with the president of the union. One of the things that always stood out in my mind is that he was very clear about the fact that no vessel will operate in the waters of British Columbia unless that vessel is safe to operate. That remained so then, and that re- mains so today. Mr. Speaker: The member for Surrey-Whalley has a supplemental. B.

Ralston: Can the minister, then, advise the House whether the damage stability regulation came into force in 2003 and whether or not the government sought exemption from that particular regulation in order to remain in compliance? [1435] Hon. K. Falcon: I'm not familiar with the regulation the member is referring to, but if the member could be good enough to share that with me, I would be happy to look into that for him. M. Farnworth: In 2003 B.C. Ferries estimated the useful life of these ships at between 20 and 40 years in their service plan. One year later the estimated life was listed at 40 years.

Can the minister tell why B.C. Ferries removed the lower estimate of 20 years? Hon. K. Falcon: I can't comment directly on that, but what I can tell the member is that when the Coastal Ferry Act was put into place on April 1, 2003, there was specific direction given to B. C. Ferries that those three v e s s e l s w e r e t o b e r e p l a c e d w i t h i n a t e n - y e a r p e r i o d . As the member opposite may know, by 2012 Transport Canada would be bringing in new regulations which would mean these vessels could not continue to oper- ate on the Inside Passage.

Those directions were put in place so we could get the ball rolling on replacing these vessels. In 2004, as the member kn ows, B.C. Ferries went through a community consulta tion to make sure that communities, as these members opposite often remind us, should be consulted on th ese issues. So they had an opportunity to talk about what kind of vessels they would like, what kind of amenities they want to see in those vessels. Following us receiving that report in the end of November of 2004, in March 2005 government gave the Ministry of Transportation a financial mandate — a mandate to negotiate with B.C.

Ferries and engage in an agreement so that they could move forward and acquire three new vessels. We completed those nego- tiations at the end of December of last year, and we just recently finalized the financial details so the ferries can indeed move forward in replacing those three vessels. Mr. Speaker: Member for Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain has a supplemental. ACCESS TO B.C. FERRIES INFORMATION M.

Farnworth: The minister is giving a fair amount of information in terms of his answers, but a lot of the questions that are being asked are arising out of deci- sions that were taken or not taken during the past five years. These are questions that could have been asked by the public or by outside agencies or by outside con- sultants and experts in the marine industry if, for ex- ample, B.C. Ferries was covered under the Freedom of Information Act. One of the problems we have today is that it's not.

In terms of the actions that the government can take — and Transport Canada will be doing its own investi- gations, but in terms of the actions that the government can take — will the minister make a step today in terms of assuring British Columbians about what's taking place at B.C. Ferries in terms of the refits, the overhauls, the planning, those sorts of things that are taking place? Will the minister take that step and put B.C. Ferries back under the Freedom of Information Act? Hon. K. Falcon: You know, the members opposite talk about accountability.

I can only assume they harken back to the nirvana that apparently was the accountabil- ity when they were responsible for the B.C. Ferry Corp. We know what happened in the total lack of accountabil- ity and the hundreds of milli ons of dollars that were wasted in capital decisions that made not a lot of sense. I ' v e s a i d i n t h i s H o u s e b e f o r e t h a t w h e n i t c o m e s t o accountability, there is an independent ferries commis- sioner — independent of government and independent of the board — that acts in the interests of the public.

There is an independent board of directors with representation from labour and representation from communities. There are coastal ferry advisory committees that provide infor- mation to the Ferry Corp. There are annual audited finan- cial statements. There is an annual general meeting where all members of the public have the opportunity to come forward and personally question the senior management of the B.C. Ferry Corp. There is more accountability today with B.C. Ferries than there ever was under the opposi- tion, when they managed that corporation. [1440] FOREST WORKER SAFETY C.

Puchmayr: There have been three accidents involv- ing logging trucks this week — three in the past 48 hours. At least two of these accidents have created fatalities. There is an alarming link between this government's de- regulation of this sector — in some cases, the engineered standards of logging roads — and the number of acci- dents in the workplace. I am not prejudging these acci- dents, but merely trying to prevent further deaths. To the Labour Minister: will the minister agree that there is a direct correlation between cuts to regulations and accidents in the forest sector? Hon.

M. de Jong: Thanks to the member for the question.

THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3237 Of course, again, for those families who are now experiencing that worst of all possible feelings and tragedies, our thoughts and condolences. I won't offer the confirmation that the member is seeking, because I cannot. As difficult as it is to look at numbers around fatalities — and we all in this House agree that one is too many…. But there is this notion about going back to the good old days. Well, in 1996, 40 people in forestry died. That ain't such a good old day. In 1997, 41 people died. In 2004, 16 people died.

Now, I am not prepared to say the opposite of what the member says — that there is a correlation to what took place — because I don't think the numbers support that either. But they certainly don't support the proposi- tion that the member…. There's a combination of factors here that we want to work on, that we are working on, and we are going to do everything humanly possible to make forestry a safer industry to work in. Mr. Speaker: Member for New Westminster has a supplemental. C. Puchmayr: On December 5, 2005, in Vancouver the United Steelworkers held a B.C. Forest Fatality Summit.

I was in attendance, and so was the Labour Minister. I want to quote something that the Labour Minister said at that summit. The Labour Minister said: "The observations that I have heard from a number of you — that the industry has changed and our regula- tory regime has not caught up — is a proposition that I would agree with." These are the comments of the La- bour Minister then. As a result of the governme nt's deep cuts to regula- tions, WorkSafe B.C. has a reduced ability to enforce standards that protect workers.

Will the Minister of Labour commit today to conduct an independent in- quiry involving all stakeholders, including WorkSafe B.C., specifically to address deregulation and the im- pact that it is having on workers today? Hon. M. de Jong: I didn't just make those com- ments there. I've made them in this House. The industry has changed, and we need to be pre- pared to change with it. It's why the Forestry Safety Council was established in the first place. It's why, when suggestions have been made to engage in dia- logue, reviews….

It's why, in the immediate aftermath of that meeting, I wrote to the head of WorkSafe B.C. and asked and directed them to engage in a full review of all the policies. It's why, when the suggestion was made by the Steelworkers that a specific coroner be established to review fatalities in forestry, we said: "That's a good idea." It's unfortunate that it's required, but it's a good idea. Yesterday it happened, and that individual was hired. HEALTH AND SAFETY IMPACTS OF DEREGULATION M.

Karagianis: Just several days ago in estimates, I repeatedly asked the minister responsible for deregula- tion if the cuts in regulations had resulted in any gaps, risks or liabilities. The minister said: "We have said, and we have held true to our word, that we would not compromise regulatory reduction and put safety at jeopardy, put people's health at jeopardy or put the environment at jeopardy. Thos e are principles that we have clearly lived by." My question is to the Mi nister of Small Business. Will you now admit that people's health and safety have been jeopardized by regulatory cuts? [1445] Hon.

M. de Jong: I know it may be politically at- tractive to try and construct some kind of boogeyman out there. The numbers that I have just related again to the House are appalling, but they transcend any of the matters or changes that the member has referred to. I could say to the member in reply: you know, in 2004 we had the…. It's hard to call it the best, but we had the fewest fatalities in living memory, and maybe that was attributable to the changes that were made.

I think it's far more complicated than that, and I think it's unfortunate that the member would try and limit the discussion to any single matter when it's pretty clear that there has been a longstanding culture of risk in forestry operations in this province that needs to change. We are doing everything possible to make that change happen. Mr. Speaker: Member for Esquimalt-Metchosin has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: Well, a 30-percent cut to regulations in WCB, 154,000 regulations cut across government.

The Minister of Small Business was very explicit about the fact that 40.2 percent of regulations were cut in government. I repeatedly asked whether this dramatic reduction and elimination in regulations resulted in any gaps, risks or liabilities, and I was assured that safety had not been compromised in any way. Again, my question is to the minister responsible for deregulation: will you admit that in fact there have been gaps, risks and liabilities and that personal safety has been put in jeopardy? Hon.

M. de Jong: I'm not sure that the member and I are going to have a meeting of the minds on this, but her proposition, again, seems to be: take us back to the good old days. They weren't good. If the member's proposition to this House is to re-create that regulatory regime that was in place ten years ago, then I say no, because the results were appalling. The results last year in forestry were also appalling. That's why we've hired more enforcement officials. That's why I applaud the Forest Safety Council for hav- ing an ombudsman put in place.

That's why we've ap- plied additional resources, and that's why there's a dedicated coroner now to try and get to the heart of some of these issues. That's how we're going to deal with this — not by trying to find political boogeymen

3238 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 out there. It is to go to the heart of the matter and change a culture of risk that has existed for too long in forestry. TRANSLINK GOVERNANCE REVIEW PANEL D. Chudnovsky: Earlier this month the Minister of Transportation announced what he called an inde- pendent panel to review the governance structure of TransLink. That review committee includes one indi- vidual whose firm has donated over $32,000 to the B.C. Liberal Party since 2001 and another individual who sits on the boa rd of Partners hips B .C . and served a s a special adviser to the Premier.

My question to the Minister of Transportation: given that he called the review "independent," does he agree that to ensure public confidence in the process (1) the report of the committee, (2) all preliminary reports submitted to the minister and (3) any other material provided to the minister by the committee should be made public? Hon. K. Falcon: I thank the member for the ques- tion. These are, in fact, three eminent British Columbians that are serving on this boar d. The individual that you refer to, I must confess, I did not know personally at all.

I don't believe I've ever met him prior to appointing him to the board. I am pleased to find out that he ap- parently is a supporter of good, free enterprise gov- ernment. What I can say is that a ll three of these individuals bring extraordinary decades of public service and pri- vate sector involvement and experience in understand- ing how to operate and run large organizations, and I look forward to receiving their report. I wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with making that report pub- lic once I'm finished dealing with it. Mr. Speaker: Member for Vancouver-Kensington has a supplemental. [1450] D.

Chudnovsky: Thanks to the minister for what I think is a partial response to my question. I just want to get down to the details. What I asked for was three things. I think that those thr ee things be made public. I think that it's fair to the public to ask for this level of transparency on such an important investigation. Those three things are, first, the final report of the committee to the minister…. This hand-picked commit- tee reports directly to the minister, so first the final report of the committee should be made public.

It seems to me the minister has made that commitment in this House, and we thank him for it. But there are two other things we believe should be made public. The second one is any preliminary reports that go to the minister from the committee. The third one — any other information that is forwarded by the committee to the minister. I ask him today whether he will com- mit to making those public as well. Hon. K. Falcon: As much as I try to appease the opposition critic, I'm afraid today I'm going to have to tell him no on two of those three questions.

But I can assure the member that once that final report is put in place and once I have had an opportunity as minister to review that final report, I will have no hesitation in sharing it with the members opposite. COMMUNITY FILM COMMISSION FUNDING R. Fleming: My question is for the Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts. The Greater Victoria Film Commission announced today that because of munici- pal support, they won't have to close their doors by the end of the year. The commission had sought stable, increased funding from the provincial government.

Why did this government fail to step up and ensure this film commission was properly resourced when threatened with closure? Hon. O. Ilich: In fact, we are providing stable fund- ing to the whole film industry. We do provide, in the form of tax credits…. In Victoria there are additional tax credits that are provided, and there is also regional money that goes to the film commission. Mr. Speaker: Member for Victoria-Hillside has a supplemental. R. Fleming: It is with reluctance that I point out that tax credits don't flow to the film commissions. My supplementary question is….

The Liberal government promised a review of film commission funding for all the regional commissions in the prov- ince over a year ago, but to date no action has been taken. Now the Union of B.C. Municipalities has stepped into this debate. They're requesting that this be done. My question to the minister: when will the govern- ment commit to undertake the review and ensure that community film commissions can plan long term to con- tinue the valuable work they do in regional economies? Hon. O. Ilich: I would just like to note that film production this year is up about 50 percent over last year.

In addition, the Victoria take on that has been up about $28 million. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. HARBOURLYNX TAX EXEMPTION J. Horgan: Hon. Speaker, on March 9 the Premier and the Minister of Small Business and Revenue signed order-in-council 135, providin g tax forgiveness of over $365,000 to the HarbourLynx ferry service. The follow- ing week, on March 15, the Minister of Labour signed an order rescinding that and in public said it was a clerical error.

THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3239 My question is to the Minister of Labour. Could he explain the clerical error that led the Premier of British Columbia to sign an order, along with the Minister of Revenue, forgiving tax of over $365,000? [1455] Hon. R. Thorpe: I can't discuss the specific discus- sions which take place at cabinet. I can and I will tell you, however, that cabinet gave this matter very, very serious consideration, and a decision was reached not to grant the remission. Mr. Speaker: The member for Malahat–Juan de Fuca has a supplemental. J.

Horgan: The member, if he has his calendar available, will know that March 9 was a Thursday, and cabinet meets on a Wednesday. So that would have made this a corridor order. Now, I have some familiar- ity with these issues, and I do know that legislative counsel gives green flags and red flags to these orders. I'm curious. Again, to the Minister of Labour: could he explain to me why it was okay on a Thursday for the Premier and the Minister of Revenue to give a break to a com- pany and the following week it was not? Interjections. Mr. Speaker : Members. Hon. R.

Thorpe: I will not discuss the administra- tive details of cabinet. However, I can…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker : Members. The minister has the floor. Hon. R. Thorpe: However, I can confirm that there was an administrative error in the processing of this order-in-council. It was acknowledged and rectified immediately through a resci nding order, OIC 140, on March 15. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents Hon. R.

Neufeld: I have the honour to present two capital project plan reports pursuant to the Budget Transparency and Accounta bility Act, one for Aber- feldie redevelopment and the second one for the Coquitlam dam seismic improvement project. Petitions J. Rustad: I'd like to table a petition on behalf of 309 students from the College of New Caledonia in Prince George regarding tuition fees. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: I call Committee of Supply in both committee rooms. In this chamber it will be the estimates of the Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance and in

Section A, the Douglas Fir Commit- tee Room, continuing estimates for the Ministry of Children and Family Development. [1500] Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF EMPLOYMENT AND INCOME ASSISTANCE The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Hammell in the chair. The committee met at 3:02 p.m. On Vote 25: ministry operations, $1,369,415,000. Hon. C. Richmond: Good afternoon, everyone. I'm here today to discuss the estimates for the Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance.

Before I begin my formal remarks, I'd like to take a moment to introduce some members of my ministry's executive who are here with me today. Cairine Ma cDonald is the deputy min- ister. Andrew Wharton is th e assistant deputy minister of integrated social deve lopment service delivery. Sharon Moysey is the assistant deputy minister of management services divisi on and executive financial officer, and David Curtis is executive director of the corporate planning and operations division.

These members of my executive, along with all staff at the Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance, have truly shown me their dedication to public service and commitment to excellence. Their role in supporting me as minister is most valuable, and I thank them. I would like to begin by noting that the Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance budget for the current year is almost $1.4 billion, making it the fifth- largest ministry in the provincial government.

Through our delivery of income assistance, disability assistance and employment programs, we directly contribute to the well-being of almost 140,000 British Columbians in need. Our client base is as diverse as the communities we live in.

They include employable clients in need of short-term assistance; persons with significant and multiple barriers to employment, including those with mental health and addictio n challenges; persons with disabilities experiencing significant restrictions in their ability to perform daily living activities; children living in the home of a relative when their own parents are unable to care for them; seniors aged 65 years or older; and low- and moderate-income families who are not direct clients of the ministry but who are eligible for health and dental assistance.

We provide services to these clients through the commitment of almost 2,000 professional staff who work out of 104 ministry offices,

3240 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 19 government agents branches and three service cen- tres. Through our partnership wi th external service pro- viders, we deliver flexible and responsive employment programs to clients in all regions of the province.

Over and above this substantial commitment of resources, the ministry has invested more than $16 million in new funding to provide $3 million to expand availability of a community volunteer supplement; $3 million to in- crease earning exemptions for persons with disabilities and persons with persistent multiple barriers; $1.4 mil- lion to double the school startup supplement; and $10 million to restore the seniors supplement.

Before I get into details about these initiatives, I'd like to talk about the evolving nature of our work and the accomplishments we've made in helping British Columbians most in need. [1505] One of the most difficult things we've had to do is make a fundamental shift in the perception of income assistance, from a culture of entitlement and depend- ency to one of employment and self-reliance.

We re- member every day the impact of the culture of entitle- ment and the effects it had in the mid-1990s on income assistance, when one out of every ten British Columbi- ans was on income assistance — six out of ten single mothers in the province an d one out of every seven British Columbia children. What a horrible waste of human potential. We never want to see those days again. In 2001 this government knew that it could do bet- ter, so we got to work.

In April 2002 we enacted new legislation guided by a goal that is twofold: helping p e o p l e w h o a r e a b l e t o w o r k t o f i n d a n d k e e p j o b s , while providing the best system of supports for those who need it most. I am pleased to say that we've had great success on both fronts. To date we've placed more than 46,000 of our clients directly into jobs — good jobs like painters, security officers, and hotel desk clerks. We've encour- aged thousands more to find jobs on their own.

This means there are over 112,000 British Columbians who no longer rely on income assistance, including 48,000 children who now have greater opportunities and more promising futures. While we are thrilled at our success in helping peo- ple who can work to get into good jobs and keep them, we certainly know that not everybody is able to work. In fact, our caseload has ch anged dramatically over the last five years. As we have seen the number of employ- able people on income assistance decline, we've also seen a steady rise in our caseload of clients with dis- abilities and serious barriers to employment.

In June 2001 the caseload for persons with disabilities was 43,000, and today it is 58,500 — an increase of 36 per- cent. Altogether, persons with disabilities and those with serious barriers to employment now make up more than two-thirds of our caseload. This is how it should be. It has always been the cornerstone of my ministry's work to provide the best system of support for our most vulnerable clients, persons with disabilities. That's precisely why we are ensuring that the right supports are in place to achieve this goal.

Last year, because of the excellent fiscal management of this gov- ernment, we were able to follow through on this com- mitment in a big way. We in vested an extra $55 million a year to increase disability assistance by $70 to $856 each month, benefiting mo re than 70,000 British Co- lumbians. This was the largest increase in the history of the province, making disability rates the highest in- come assistance available in B.C. and the third-highest in Canada.

As well, we continue to provide persons with dis- abilities with low-cost annual bus passes and enhanced medical coverage, including Medical Services Plan, no- deductible Pharmacare, dental and optical coverage, medical equipment and supplies, orthotics and medical transportation. Along with caring for their financial and health needs, we are making it a priority to increase opportu- nities for people with disabilities to participate more in their communities. That's why we've invested $92 mil- lion in specialized disability employment programs since 2001 to assist them to work or volunteer as they are able.

We've created the Minister's Council on Employ- ment for Persons with Disabilities, ensuring the ongo- ing provision and research of disability and employ- ment supports. To date two significant projects have come out of this council: (1) the WorkAble Solutions marketing team to encourage and support B.C. em- ployers to hire people with disabilities and (2) the Dis- ability Supports for Employment Fund, providing $1 million each year to non-profit organizations that help those with disabilities in the workplace.

So far, my council has approved 45 grants from this fund, totalling more than $2 million and supporting projects run by the Neil Squire Foundation, Adaptive Technologies, the B.C. Paraplegic Association, the Ca- nadian Mental Health Association and many other agencies throughout B.C. To encourage more people with disabilities to enter the workforce, we've just raised the earnings exemp- tion to $500 a month — the third increase made by this government since 2001.

This means persons that with disabilities now have the opportunity to have an in- come of $1,356 each month when combined with their full support and shelter allowance. [1510] People with disabilities ha ve told us that the earn- ings exemption has gone a long way in helping them pursue their employment goals and achieve greater personal and financial independence. That's our inten- tion. We want persons with disabilities to enjoy oppor- tunities in the workforce, confident in the knowledge t h a t o u r p r o g r a m s a n d s e r v i c e s w i l l c o n t i n u e t o s u p - port them.

I know these supports are making a real difference. Just recently I had the good fortune of presiding at a ceremony out in Saanich pu t on by Triumph, one of our service providers. It was an inspiring event hon-

THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3241 ouring the determination and courage of one particular British Columbian with disabilities who refused to give up on his dream of employment, despite serious head injuries and numerous person al tragedies that threat- ened to hold him back.

To put it in his words: "I was on the scrap heap of life until somebody saw that there was something good in me somewhere and gave me that hand up and that assistance to get back into the workforce." This man now happily works at a local business making $12.50 an hour, using his skills as a craftsman in both metal and wood — a job he describes as great. Stories like these are why we are investing in these employment programs, because his story is not the only one. His success represented the 1,000th success story of Triumph in serving people with disabilities. I am pleased to say this is just the beginning.

Later this year we will be refining our disability employment programs so that they are the most effective they can be, ensuring the best service to clients and the best value to taxpayers. Thanks to another surplu s budget, we're expanding our community volunteer program by investing an additional $9 million over the next three years. This investment will give 2,500 more people with disabili- ties up to $100 each month to help them with the ex- penses of volunteering in their communities.

As well, over the next three years my ministry will take a lead- ership role in developing an integrated and cooperative approach to delivering cross-ministry supports throughout the province. We are leading this strategy because people with disabilities are a high priority for my ministry. We're not just making our society accessi- ble to them; we're including them. There is another group of individuals on our caseload that is also a high priority. I'm talking about British Columbians with complex and unique challenges — people facing homelessness, mental illness and addic- tion.

We recognize there are no simple answers for as- sisting these individuals and that our best solution lies in working together with other levels of government, mu- nicipalities and community organizations. That's why two years ago this government created the Premier's Task Force on Homelessness, Mental Ill- ness and Addictions. This task force of municipal and provincial leaders provides a multilevel, coordinated approach to developing long-term solutions to the complex issues of homelessness.

As part of our contri- bution to the task force, we've begun a number of out- reach initiatives throughout the province using creative partnership approaches to connect individuals with supports and services they need to integrate back into our community. One of these projects is our homeless outreach in Vancouver's west end, south and downtown east side, where we've partnered with city social workers who literally go into the streets and alleys in the early morn- ing hours to reach out to homeless and barriered indi- viduals.

We bring these individuals directly into our offices and fast-track their application for income assis- tance. At the same time, we help them find permanent housing and connect them with the medical services they need. So far, o ver 95 percent of pe ople we have brou g ht into our offices have begun receiving income assistance and had a place to live within the same working day. Another project sees us working alongside social workers from the health auth ority and the city of Van- couver as part of an urgent response team.

We're tak- ing ministry services directly to individuals in hospi- tals and detox centres so that they are supported with ongoing community and heal th services, both while they are in crisis and later as they re-establish them- selves in the community. [1515] We are supporting similar workshops in Kamloops, expanding our outreach activities to assist all individu- als with mental health, drug and alcohol abuse issues. Through an investment of $150,000, we are helping these folks back into the community, giving them ac- cess to housing, financial resources, transition and re- ferral support services.

So far we have had tremendous progress, helping close to 300 people begin a better life. I believe this Kamloops integration project is a suc- cess because of the effective partnerships with local partners. These include the city of Kamloops, the Kam- loops AIDS Society, B.C. Housing, the New Life Mis- sion and the Forensic Psychiatric Services Commission. Providing these individual s with income assistance, housing and community supports is the critical first step, but there's another step we are taking that is also very important.

It's no use giving our most vulnerable citizens resources just to have them preyed upon every last Wednesday of the month. That's why, to safeguard their money, we are promoting direct deposit for our clients. We're doing this because direct deposit, often a cheaper alternative to the commercial money-cashing centres, ensures that our clients have a secure, safe and reliable system of handling their money. Promoting direct deposit is just one measure we are taking to protect our clients. We simply will not toler- ate the illegal activities of those who steal from our most vulnerable citizens or from taxpayers.

That's why my ministry has also taken action to prevent fraud where it most commonly occurs. Following a police sting operation in Vancouver's downtown east side, which uncovered unscrupulous landlords taking advantage of our clients, we estab- lished the housing integrated task team. This team is working to stop fraud in the ar ea. This is not as easy as it sounds. We often discover that the same landlord owns several properties under different names, making it a challenge to identify th em all at once. But through the work of the team, we are determined to do just that.

One preventive measure is doing regular checks, making sure clients are livi ng in the rooms they are paying for. The team is also personally delivering assis- tance cheques to landlords for clients residing in seven downtown east side residences and withholding those cheques if clients are not living there. Another type of fraud we are working to stop is identity theft or falsification of documents. Here we are

3242 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 partnering with the Burnaby police in their current investigation into identity creation rings, making sure no one is successful in their attempt to scam income assistance. To date, these pr evention activities have saved hundreds of thousands of income assistance dol- lars from falling into the wrong hands. So far I've talked about our outreach services and prevention services making a real difference in people's lives, but we would prefer that we get to a point where these services are no longer needed.

That's why a prior- ity of this government is to serve British Columbians early so that families facing the greatest difficulties have the supports to preven t challenges from turning into crisis. This concern is shared by all of government and took the greatest priority in our last budget. That's why this government is investing an additional $421 million over four years to help ensure the well-being of vul- nerable children.

This includes $72 million to add more social workers and other front-line staff, $100 million to enhance the child protection system, $34 million to increase funding for the child and youth with mental health disorders, $36 million to reduce wait-lists for services to children and youth with special needs, $31 million in additional support to implement five re- gional aboriginal child and family development service authorities, $2 million for the crystal meth secretariat to integrate and coordinate efforts to combat the produc- tion and use of crystal methamphetamine and $112 million in additional funding for K-to-12 education.

Beyond that, we are also investing $3 million over the next three years to extend the BladeRunners con- struction training and apprenticeship program for dis- advantaged and multi-barriered youth; $76 million to expand universal hearing, sight and dental testing for every child in B.C. under the age of six; and nearly $200 million in social housing — the most ever spent in Brit- ish Columbia.

These are significant investments, and to add to this, I think we can all agree the best way of helping children is to make sure their parents have a good job — in other words, helping families break free from the cycle of poverty, allowing our youngest citizens to build futures they can be proud of. We know that chil- dren in working families are better off than those sup- ported by income assistance. They do better in school, and they do better later on as adults in the job market. [1520] That's why my ministry is spending more than $70 million this year in improved employment programs.

This includes a new community assistance program, a new British Columbia employment program and spe- cialized programs like our bridging employment pro- gram, which helps women who have faced abuse move toward independence. Together these programs will provide a full continuum of employment supports to help our clients find and keep jobs and succeed in to- day's labour market.

To help working families succeed, this government has greatly increased the income threshold for receiv- ing child care subsidy from $21,000 to $38,000 per year, benefiting 6,500 more children and about 6,000 families who will receive an increase in their existing subsidy. To ensure more money stays with working families, we've also reduced or eliminated provincial income taxes for about 730,000 British Columbians. Besides a job, another fundamental need for B.C. families is good health, and to help our low-income families stay healthy, we're continuing to provide extra health supports and services.

Last year we raised pre- scription eyeglasses covera ge by $35 through the Healthy Kids program to ensure kids who need new glasses can have them each year. We also increased payment for dental services to 80 percent of the dentist's fee guide, up from 63 percent, so low-income families have a better access to services they need. And we raised the monthly natal supple- ment from $35 to $45 to provide better pre- and post- natal nutrition and support for healthier mothers and babies.

Now with a ministry budget of almost $1.4 billion, an increase of more than 6½ percent over last year, we are able to provide even more. To assist families on income assistance, we're investing $4 million over three years to double the school startup allowance, provid- ing $84 for each child under 12 and $116 for each child 12 or older. This is the first increase since 1993. This increase will benefit 29,000 children, giving them the tools and supports they need to succeed in the class- room.

These supports, giving B.C.'s children a solid start in life, are made possible because of this government's sound fiscal management and the excellent strength of our province's economy. To bring this all togeth er and ensure those who need our supports receive them, I give credit to the ongoing hard work of my regional ministry staff. On a daily basis they work personally with our clients to make sure their immediate needs are met and to help individuals going through a difficult time to once again be self-sufficient.

They're doing an incredible job serv- ing British Columbians with the highest standards of respect and sensitivity, ensuring fair and consistent service to all our clients throughout the province. Since fair and consistent service is a priority for all of us, my ministry is developing a service code, a pro- ject that all ministry employees are involved in. This way we can continue to maintain the best level of ser- vice for our clients — service that all ministry staff can relate to, believe in and be proud of.

In all of our projects, the success my ministry has had in working together reaffirms for me that our gov- ernment's priorities are on the right track and that the value of our investment reaches far beyond the dollar. I now look forward to discussing the Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance budget in greater detail and welcome comments from all hon. members present. C. Trevena: I'd like to thank the minister, to wel- come his staff — thank you for coming to help us out — and also to recognize the hard-working staff across

THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3243 the province. I know that they are dealing at times with very difficult issues in very trying circumstances, and I know that they're working extraordinarily hard. The budget that we had come down in February has been described as a children's budget, and I know the minister has been describ ing issues affecting what the ministry is doing to assi st children. I note that the minister started by describing how it was in the 1990s, when one out of every seve n children was living in a family on income assistance .

I think that we have a challenging problem, because now we have one in four children in poverty, so it seems that the situation is getting worse rather than better. [1525] We're seeing increased usag e of food banks. I know that in the minister's own hometown of Kamloops, one in four of the users of the food bank there are children, which, sadly, neatly reflects the level of child poverty in our province. I think it is a disgraceful level.

I think that we should all, all of us, be ashamed of it — that we can have a society where one in four children is in poverty, where 24,000 children provincewide are using food banks, where pregnant women have to rely on hampers at food banks and have to have donations of diapers and where people can't afford basic nutrition. I think we all have to question what this means for us as a society. My colleague, the member for Vancouver- Kingsway… D. Chudnovsky: The other guy. C.

Trevena: …the other guy, was in the estimates process talking to the Minister of Children and Family Development, and he asked the minister about child poverty. I think we're all very concerned about this and want to put it on the agenda and want to make sure that the issues are addressed while we have the oppor- tunity to question minister s and do have this chance.

He asked the Minister of Children and Family Devel- opment about child poverty, and that minister re- sponded that this responsibility lies with the Minister of Employment and Income Assistance, so I would, first off, like to ask the mi nister whether he does take responsibility for child poverty? Hon. C. Richmond: Just let me begin by saying the statistic that the member repeats very often of one in four children in poverty is no t correct. It's at least three years old, and an awful lot has happened in British Columbia in the last three years.

I'm going to give you — since statistics seem to be important here — the statistics put out by Hunger- Count, which are only four months old. This is a report r e l e a s e d i n N o v e m b e r o f l a s t y e a r , j u s t f o u r m o n t h s ago, by the Canadian Association of Food Banks. They're not our figures; they'r e theirs. It shows that the number of people in British Columbia using food banks is down 10½ percent, and the number of chil- dren using food banks is down 9.1 percent.

Although 45 percent of f ood banks have reported an increase in food bank use, food bank usage has de- creased for the province as a whole. Eight thousand fewer people in the province visited a food bank this year compared to last. It shows that B.C.'s strong econ- omy is helping more people find good jobs and build brighter futures for themselves and their families. It also shows that the largest users of food banks are sin- gle people. I'm glad that the member had a chance to visit the food bank in Kamloops run by M a r g S p i n a . I ' v e b e e n there many times myself.

In fact, I was there just about a week or ten days ago taking a few things over to her. She's a very innovative person. When these young people, who are the biggest users of food banks, come in for food, she also has what she calls the store, I be- lieve it is, where they have clothing, computers, all sorts of things — shoes, used skis, used everything that people donate. When young people want these items, she puts them to work in the food bank doing whatever is re- quired. They even have a community garden. I believe the member mentioned that the other day in a talk she was giving.

It shows the innovation of Marg. I've known her for many, many years. She's been a good friend and supporter for a long time. She doesn't just hand them these things out of the store. They work for them, and they get points fo r working. So she is also instilling in them a work ethic. When you want some- thing that you see in the store, whether it's a computer or a coat or whatever it is, you work in her food bank and earn points, and then you acquire these things. [1530] She's also receiving an award next week, I believe it is, from the Premier for ou tstanding citizen, because she truly is.

But that's the way, to me, that a food bank should work. My colleague from Kamloops–North Thompson mentioned it in a speech he made the other day, simply because when you go there you can't help but come away with a feeling that this is the way a food bank should be run. Another interesting statistic is…. Even if your sta- tistic of one in four children was correct, you could imagine what it would be if the stats were still the same as they were in the mid-'90s, when one in seven children were in families on income assistance. Now that figure is down to one in 30.

If it were still the same, can you imagine what would be happening at food banks today? In December of 2001 ther e were 85,000 children, or about 6 percent of the child population, in families on income assistance. In 2005 th ere were 35,000 children, down to 3 percent of the ch ild population, or only one in 30. I think that is trem endous progress, and once again I question your statistic of one in four. C. Trevena: I take it that that means no, you aren't taking responsibility for child poverty, although the levels of poverty have quite clearly risen in the last five years.

I think you just have to go to Kamloops — to the food bank, where kids play in the food bank. Go to the area where everybody can see the poverty, where it is the focus for poverty in our province — the downtown

3244 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 east side. Go, I think, to any community to see the in- crease in poverty. I'm not going to quibble on figures. The Hunger- Count figures — yes, they're the ones that we're using. They're the ones that you ar e also using. They are the most recent figures we have, and while there may be fewer children now living in families on income assis- tance, I suspect that's largely because fewer families have access to income assistance. I think that none of us can really avoid the fact that one in four kids — 2003 figures, one in four kids — are living in poverty.

In 2003 this government was in power. We have food banks. We talk about the good food bank in Kamloops, and I agree. It is a very vibrant food bank, and Marg does a fantastic job in making this happen. But we have kids playing at food banks, and we have food banks as part of our society. In Kelowna I was talking to workers there, and we have kids going to school hungry, kids who st op by the food bank on the way to school because they haven't had breakfast because their parents can't afford to give them break- fast.

We have kids who go to an after-school program who go straight for the snacks because they haven't eaten all day. As one worker said to me: "We're starv- ing our children." I'd like to ask the minister whether he'll take responsibility for that. Hon. C. Richmond: For the member to assert that we don't care about child poverty or don't take respon- sibility for it is just nonsense. What we are doing in this government is working acro ss ministries. Children are not just the responsibility of this ministry, but of Health, of Education, of the Ministry of Children and Families and others.

We are working very hard in this government to break down the old mentality of silos, which has been prevalent in government — not only this government, but governments everywhere — for far too long. This is why the Premier developed the Caucus Committee on Social Development, where all of these ministries get together, usually on a weekly basis, and try to knock down the silos and work across ministries. That's when I say we're spending $421 million over the next four years out of th is budget. It's not all being spent in one ministry.

It's being spent across govern- ment, and it's being spent on children — $421 million — because children are the mo st vulnerable in our so- ciety, and we take it very seriously. [1535] In my opening remarks I outlined where all this $421 million was going, and it's coming from across government. They were the focal point of this year's budget. A couple of other statistics that we have to quote and we have to rely on.

We have reviewed the possibil- ity of including poverty measures in our service plan and determined that it would not be appropriate for the following reasons: reporting on low income–cut off rates across the province is already included as a per- formance indicator in the B.C. Progress Board series of benchmark reports. The issu e of poverty does not fit within a single ministry — as I have just said. No single organization owns or has the solution to poverty. That's why we're working diligently across gov- ernment to knock down the silos.

We're working with other agencies; with municipalities; with service provid- ers; with advocacy groups; and, of course, with everyone who is interested in children, as we all are. I'll leave it at that for the moment. C. Trevena: I agree that we do need to have cross- governmental cooperation, because it's the only way that we're going to work, if we all do talk to each other. But we do still have the problem of massive poverty in our province. In the service plan the mini stry says, as you say, that it's part of a larger network of assistance.

It states that "clients receiving our assistance and supports may also receive additional benefits, including the Canada Pen- sion Plan, National Child Benefit or child care subsidy — thereby substantially increasing their available income financial independence." The money provided by the federal government, however, is deducted from assis- tance rates, so the issue of federal-provincial transfers is always one of contention. I would like to know how much of the federal child benefit is kept by the ministry. Hon. C. Richmond: The National Child Benefit all goes to the client. C.

Trevena: This would mean, then, that the basic benefit rate a single person gets is completely topped up by the National Child Be nefit and there is no claw- back at all — is that what the minister is saying? [1540] Hon. C. Richmond: Sorry for the delay. We were just trying to find you a complete answer to this. B.C. has never discriminated against families on welfare by clawing back in creases in the National Child Benefit supplement from income assistance rates. The fully integrated B.C. family bonus and NCB sup- plement is received by low-income families in B.C., whether they are on income assistance or not.

In fact, the ministry tops up families who do not receive or receive less than the maximum amount of National Child Benefit supplement family bonus per child each month up to $123.50 per child. C. Trevena: It's interesting how we can play with figures. The National Counci l of Welfare has looked at this and has some statistics on how much families are getting on income assistance across the country. It compares them across the country. So a parent on in- come assistance….

Let's say a two-parent family on income assistance actually now has a lower income than they did in 1989 when the minister was the minis- ter for the same responsibility in the Socred govern- ment. If we use a fixed dollar amount, a 2004 dollar, in 1989 a single parent with one child would receive $15,366 and now they receive $13,778. The federal por-

THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3245 tion of this has actually increased from $1,669 to $3,467. So the federal amount has gone up, but people are ac- tually losing money. Welfare has gone down. I would like to ask the minister how he can explain this, if the ministry isn't clawing back the benefit. [1545] Hon. C. Richmond: The amount paid for single parents with one or two children since June of 2001 has gone up across the board, except in one case. For peo- ple with disabilities, it's up substantially and has not gone down, as suggested by the member.

In fact, it's up considerably all across the board. C. Trevena: Could the minister give me those fig- ures? Hon. C. Richmond: Sure. These figures are public knowledge. The figures I have quoted are total income including tax credits. If you would like, we will send you a copy of these. C. Trevena: A s I s a y , I f i n d t h i s v e r y i n t e r e s t i n g because when…. Every time the federal subsidy has gone up, the welfare level has frozen and people have effectively lost money. So I'll be very interested to see the figures and how the minister can justify that.

Hope- fully, we will be able to discuss this as the estimate proceedings continue over the next few days. When we're talking about clawbacks…. It's quite a nasty phrase. I just wanted to ask you about one that I hope isn't going to be a clawback. The new Conserva- tive government in Ottawa has obviously announced the child care agreement, where they're going to be paying every family who has a child under the age of seven $1,200. They're not going to have a child care plan, but they will give ev ery family $1,200 for this.

I would like to know whether the minister will commit that this money, this $120 a month, will be in addition to temporary assistance, to PWD, to PPMB — that it will be on top of the assistance rates. I would like this assurance. Hon. C. Richmond: The question pertains to future federal government policy, but we can only assume that it's going to happen. It's a bit hypothetical, but the ministry is currently revi ewing the federal govern- ment's position and the choice in child care allowances and is committed to ensuring these funds are applied in a way that maximizes the potential benefit to chil- dren.

We have no intention of clawing anything back. C. Trevena: You have no intention of clawing any- thing back, so I can take it that you are — as the Liberal Premier of Ontario did — making a commitment that this $120 a month, $1,200 a year, will go directly to every family with a child under seven that is on assis- tance under your ministry? Hon. C. Richmond: I understand that is the federal program as it has been proposed. It's not law yet, but we assume it's going to be, and the program says every child under the age of either six or seven will receive $100 a month, or $1,200 a year.

We have no intention of touching that $100 or clawing anything else back. C. Trevena: I'm very pleased that that is going to be the case. I would also like the commitment that there will be no reduction in any other of the assistance rates, subsidies or anything else which is going to families who have children under the age of six — whatever age it is that the federal government sets for this child care program — to ensure that they get, on top of their bene- fits that they're already receiving, the extra moneys com- ing from the federal government directly to them. [1550] Hon. C.

Richmond: We will not be changing any other of our supports just because the federal govern- ment is giving $100 a month to each child. We have no intention whatever to claw an ything back or to reduce any other rates. I do want to read a few things into the record to explain what this ministry is doing to improve the lives of children living in poverty. The Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance is committed to building the best support system in Canada to support children at r i s k a s o u t l i n e d i n t h e ministry's goals.

In the short term the ministry provides basic support and shelter for the family unit along with many other services that ar e directed towards children, such as the Healthy Kids program. Crisis supplements may be issued to family units, particularly those with children who face unexpected emergency needs to pre- vent imminent danger to their physical health.

Health supplements for dependant children of all BCEA clients and children in the home of a relative include: premium-free Medical Services Plan coverage; no-deductible Pharmacare coverage; infant formula; optical supplements; dental services; diet supplements; short-term nutritional pr oducts; medical equipment and supplies; orthotics and bracing; medical transpor- tation; and physiotherapy, massage therapy, podiatry and chiropractic services.

A shelter top-up supplement for families who are working on the return of their children from the care of the Ministry of Children and Family Development en- sures the family does not have to move to alternate accommodation when a child is removed from the fam- ily. A shared parenting suppl ement provides a shelter top-up to parents with joint custody and child in the home of a relative. One more item we could add on there is the in- crease to the school startup program.

Quite contrary to the supposition that we may be lowering other rates and clawing something back, we are doing everything in our power and within our budget to provide additional services for children. C. Trevena: Is this money that we're all expecting to come from the federal government — this $1,200 a year — regarded as income by the ministry?

3246 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 Hon. C. Richmond: No, it will be treated as ex- empt. C. Trevena: That's very encouraging, minister. I know that colleagues have been talking to people in the Ministry of Children and Family Development, and I think that ministry would be very interested to know that this is how it is going to be treated — that it will be exempt and will be in addition to all other benefits. Your government has made a number of changes in access to assistance over the years.

One of the areas is that a single parent can only claim temporary assis- tance until their child is three, without having to look for work at the same time. Often that parent is a woman. If the woman is divorced, she is sometimes — we often hope more often than not — getting mainte- nance from her spouse. The family maintenance ex- emption was in place since 1976, and that allowed a single parent who is receiving child support payments to keep $100 a month. But this is one of the areas that has been eliminated. This exemption was used primarily by single par- ents.

I wondered why the ministry made this move. [1555] Hon. C. Richmond: Long and complicated. The family maintenance enforcement program, FMEP, is mandated to seek maintenance payments for income assistance recipients who ar e entitled to receive them. The goals are to ensure that family breakdown does not impoverish dependant family members, places no excessive burden on public funds and promotes fi- nancial independence and ec onomic security of cli- ents by ensuring they re ceive enforceable mainte- nance orders.

Previously, women on family maintenance were allowed to keep $100 per month to serve as an incen- tive to pursue maintenance and to cover legal expenses in doing so. The assignment of family maintenance is a condition of eligibility for B.C. employment assistance. All costs in obtaining and en forcing orders are covered by the ministry and the fa mily maintenance enforce- ment program. Thus, an exemption no longer serves as an incentive. [1600] Every province in Canada other than Quebec de- ducts maintenance income dollar for dollar.

But I think the key in there is that the province now pays all the legal costs of the family maintenance enforcement pro- gram. C. Trevena: Thank you for explaining the proce- dure, minister. I just wanted to know why women, largely women, don't get that extra $100 a month? Hon. C. Richmond: I thought I explained that. One of the reasons was to prevent them from having to foot the financial bills to go after the errant — usually, fa- ther — spouse who is not paying maintenance for his children. But now they don't have to do that. The prov- ince absorbs all the financial costs.

Harking back, as the member did earlier to when I had this ministry before, we brought in the family maintenance enforcement prog ram for the very reason that there was quite a percentage of fathers who would not pay child support. Of course, that put a tremen- dous burden on the Crown. We decided that we would enforce the family maintenance program by getting court orders and forcing them to pay and to live up to their responsibilities, even up to and including gar- nisheeing wages. So we absorb all the financial cost of that program now. Hence, we do not allow an exemp- tion of $100.

Also, it is considered unearned income. C. Trevena: Absorbing the legal costs is clearly for going after deadbeat dads, going after the people who are not going to pay their maintenance. But this is only a proportion of the father s or mothers who are liable for support payments. So effe ctively, you're penalizing others for the problems of some. Again, I would like to know why you are doing this — why some people are bearing the cost, by not allow- ing this exemption, of having to pay for the legal bills for others? Hon. C. Richmond: I think I've got the member's question straight, but I'll try this.

Income assistance is the payer of last resort. Whether a woman is on income assistance or working, maybe in a low-paying job, we come to the assistance of people for the purposes of food and shelter and other sustenance as the payer of last resort. So the errant spouse, usually a father, is expected to pay child support. When he or she doesn't, then the sin- gle parent can go to the courts and get a court order to force that person to pay up. If they don't, then the tax- payer has to pay that.

Like I say, if they are on income assistance, it is a form of income and is intended for the purposes of providing sustenance for their family. [1605] I don't know how we could discriminate from one person to the other as to who should get the $100 ex- emption and who shouldn't. The law is very specific across the board, and it is considered income. There- fore, it is unearned income, but it is also income that is owed by the other spouse. In fairness to the taxpayer , the taxpayer should not be making up any difference. Maybe that's not the right way to put it.

The taxpayer shouldn't be expected — I don't know, exactly, if I'm putting it the right way — to come up with the money for child maintenance when there's a spouse out there who is perfectly capable of doing it. C. Trevena: People who are on assistance…. It is the last resort. People on disability are on very low levels of income. It's also a last resort for many of them. They are living, usually, in levels of high poverty. When the spouse is not errant, when the spouse is pay- ing his or her ex money for maintenance, why is this person, usually a woman, not allowed to keep that?

Why is it clawed back dollar for dollar?

THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 3247 Hon. C. Richmond: I guess the best way I can an- swer the member's question is to say that if the family maintenance provided by the other spouse is not enough for the person's daily living, to pay shelter and food, etc., then we top that up to the maximum allow- able under the category that they fall under. So if the maintenance is below what is required in their category to come up to the maximum allowable, we top it up. But it is income. The family maintenance is income and is to be used for food and sh elter, etc., primarily for the children.

It's child support in most cases. I guess that's the best way I can answer your question. It is income, and therefore, it's deductib le from their income assis- tance. C. Trevena: It's not only mothers and fathers — people bringing up children — who are separated and getting support who are facing these sorts of claw- backs. Seniors are also having income taken back from them. Seniors who are on the Canada Pension Plan, who have worked their whole lives and now are in n e e d o f a s s i s t a n c e a n d o n C P P , h a v e t h e C P P d i r e c t l y deducted from their income assistance.

Again, I would like to ask the minister: why? [1610] Hon. C. Richmond: First of all, there are very few seniors on income assistance. Most seniors get the old age pension supplement — whatever you want to call it — plus CPP, which provides them more than income assistance. There are only in the entire province about 600 seniors who are on income assistance, not on old age pension, and that's because they have been in the country for less than ten ye ars. There are very, very few that are affected by the takeback of Canada Pen- sion. C. Trevena: You didn't answer my question. Why? Why is the money taken back?

Whether it's $600 or $6,000, why are you taking the money back? Hon. C. Richmond: First of all, with the 600 peo- ple that we talked about, it would be unlikely that they were getting any CPP or any federal benefits, and they would be receiving all of their income from this ministry. Again, this ministry is the payer of last resort. Applicants are required to present all other sources of income, but we do make an exception and have earnings exemptions for persons with multiple barriers or persons with disabilities. Likely, when these people who do not receive any income from the federal government….

Once they've been in the country for the required amount of time, which is ten years, or become Canadian citizens, then they would start to receive payments from the federal govern- ment. In cases where CPP benefits to a senior are less than the B.C. employment assistance rate, this ministry will top up the CPP income to our rate. C. Trevena: So basically, you will make up the level to the basic very low levels that we're talking about on assistance, minister. This seniors supplement is only available for sen- iors who receive old age se curity and guaranteed in- come supplement.

New immigr ants are excluded from this. I'm still troubled by this disparity, and I wondered if you could explain it to me. [1615] Hon. C. Richmond: The seniors supplement is a monthly top-up payment to B.C. recipients of the fed- eral guaranteed income suppl ement. There is no appli- cation process. The supplement is paid automatically to GIS recipients who qualify, but one of the requirements is they must be a GIS recipient to qualify. GIS is an income-tested supplement to the federal old age secu- rity and federal allowance, formerly spouse's allow- ance.

It increases quarterly based on indexing to the cost of living. If the income through federal payments is below what we would pay should they be one of our clients, we will top up their income at the persons-with- disabilities rate. C. Trevena: If I can ask the minister another ques- tion about seniors. This is the children's budget. The last one was the seniors bu dget, and I know I'm going back a bit. But seniors on income assistance aren't eli- gible for the SAFER grants, and I wondered why. Hon. C. Richmond: The reason is because we give seniors the full amount of their shelter cost.

Their shel- ter allowance is the full amount of their shelter cost, so that's why SAFER doesn't apply. C. Trevena: I'd like a clarification from the minister on this. So a single senior, no matter what their rent is, would get the full cost? Or are you saying that the sen- ior would get the single person's rental allowance of $325? Hon. C. Richmond: Just to clarify, they get the full $325 without receipts. They automatically get that. I should have clarified that. C. Trevena: As we've had this discussion before, $325 isn't a great amount to be finding accommodation for a single person.

I ask the minister again, if I'm in- terpreting this right: with out having the SAFER grant, a single senior would get $325 — and that's it — and a couple would get $520 — and that's it — and they would have to try and find suitable, clean, safe living accommodation for their old age at that level? Hon. C. Richmond: We're talking here again about those very few people who do not qualify for any fed- eral mon

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0323pm-02
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0323pm 02
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0da0cf1aac22f60c07702477d80c3cb5d639c373

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).