Volume 2 j PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 2nd Session VERBATIM REPORT Monday, February 12, 1973 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Number 2

"February 12, 1973. Tnpe 18, Page 1 -- nph The House met nt 3•0fl p.ni, >-lr. SpeaYer in tiw Cha:i r. MIL SPEAKER~. Order please! I woul<l like to welcome nny visit0rs to the g;,llery todny. I trust that your visit here is most informative and interC'sttng. FR. H.N.ROUE· Pr, Speaker. I hep leave to present a netition which I have received from the voters of the 1L1rrpton Aren, Unysidc Hanpton, the coves and the. beaches of that general aren~ 1t is signed hy nhout 350 voters in those communities.

The praver of the petition, Sir. nsks for n sn.ncl truck or sand truc1:s to lie in the ll<1J'l'lf\ton Area, so thnt better services can be nrovide<l as (ar as keeping tllr roads c1Pnr of snow .1nd to rut sand on the jcc. 1t is not too importnnt I suppose in the -framework of what goes 0n in the Jlousf' here ff'nera)ly spe,1kinp:. It does not need anv cowmittees or tasY. forces or restructured governments 1 hut it ifi innortant to the people concerned. P.t the moPent they have to wait for these SC'rvices fror:i Deer Luke which is a long distance ;way.

Pf.en you have n lot of t1en working in the woods and you have to travel over that rond da:ily, hacl~ rmd forth over fairly hilly countryside I m:i.r,ht add, it is iF1perativc that this type of service be immediately available. I move, Sir, that this petition he received by this honourable House and referred to the department to which i.t relates. }-fR. F.B.ROWE· !3 r. Speaker, T beg leave to present a petition on hf'J-w.lf of some fifty-four resirlents of Flowers Cove, t!lat :i.s fishermen of FloFers Cove.

This petition, Sir, is ;ilGo supported by the lmplican Women 1 s Association, bv the Recreation Commission of FJowt'rs Cove, 'by the Lion's Club of Flowers Cove and hy the United Church Homen I s Associ.ntion 49

February 12, 1973, Tape 18, Page 2 -- apb of Flowers Cove. The prayer of this petition asks for n community stage for the fishermen in the Community of Flowers Cove. There is not much that can be said about the existinp: facilities there nt the nresent time, since no facility whatsoever exists for the use of the fishermen. Sir, Task that this petition be plnced on the table of the House and referred to the <lepartfl'!ent to 'Phich it relates. !fR ._:MORGAN! ?-1r. Speaker, I bep: leave to pr('sent a pet:i.tion on behalf of the residents of the community of Sweet Bay in my District of Bonavista South.

They are not asking for too much. It is for the unr?radinr of their road. I note thev are nnt asking for p;winp;. ,iust the upj!radinr. Mainly.the reason for it is because of some dangerous intersections and dan~erous section:; of the road with regard to the operation of school buses in the area. The prayer of the petition :is nsking for the estaiilishment and erection of guardrails and the up~rading of the road frof'l Sweet Bay to the hirh school 50

February 12, 1973 Tape 19 ! Page 1 I.B. un to the pavement in Leathbridge. I hope this petition will be tah1ed in this hon. House and passed along to the department to which it relates. t-fR. S. A. NEARY: I take pleasure, on behalf of my colleagues and the opp­ osition~ to support the petition presented bv the member for Bonavista South. The request, Sir, of the petition, seems to be very reasonable and just.

I am sure that his colleague, the Minister of Hi~hways, will see to it th;1t proper guardrails are put there for the safety and the protection of the people who go over that piece of road and that the road is ungraded and naved. MR. SPEAKER: Are there any other petitions? REPORTS OF STANDING AND SELECT CO'll-flTTEES HON. H. R. V. EARLE: (MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS AND SERVICES) : Mr. Speaker, I ask leave of the House to present the annual renort of the C.A. Pippy Park lom­ ission of the years 1971-1972. There will be copies available for the opnosition. HON. JOHN C. CROSBIE: (MINISTER OF FINANCE): Mr.

Speaker, I heg leave to table here in the House a reoort on hynothecated securities.

Section 21 (9) of the Revenue and Audit Act Btates that the Minister of Finance should keer a complete record of all securities hypothecated under the act and prepare and subrn:tt an annual report thereof and lay the report before the House of Assemhlv, with the Public Accounts. This is to advise that there are no hynothecated securjties. (only one copy.) Hypothecated securities are in good hands. I beg leave to table, Mr. Speaker, a report on revolving temporary loans.

Section 21, Para. one and two of the Revenue and Audit Act states that the minister must renort to the House of Assembly, within fifteen days,concerning anv temporary loans raised for the purpose of paying off other temporary loans. This is one purnose for which we have not raised any loans and I now advise that no such loans were raised since the last sitting of the House of Assemblv. I also beg leave to table, Mr. Speaker, a renort on the payments of gunranteed loans, since the House last met, as required by

Section 32, Para. 2 of the Revenue and Audit Act. 51

February 12, 1973 Taoe 19 Page 2 rn The following figureR represent loans which had been paid in part or in whole under the Loan and Guarantee Act since the last sitting of the House of Assembly. (There is an original and some copies here.) Brigus Knitting Mills, $59,000 (I will just give the round figures.) Regional Highschool Board of Education, Corner Brook, Amalgamated, $60,000. V.B. Spencer, Limited, $29,000 (The House is very familiar with that gentleman.) Dear Lake Amalgamated Regional High School, $13,000. Harbour Grace Recreational Centre, $5,900 Hotel Holdi.ngs Limited, Corner Brook, $20,000.

Paragon Hotel Limited, $35,000. Hotel Buildings Limited, $956,000 McAlpine Escrow Account, $4,168,000. Ocean Kist Products(l970) Limited, $131,000 Northern Lumber Cor.1pany, $22,000. (There are some copies here for the opposition or the press) I do agree, Mr. Speaker, to table, in the House here, the follow-::lng: reRulations. No. 23, SSA Tax Amendment Regulation of 1972 No. 46, Newfoundland Government Employees Association, Deduction of Dues Re- gulations~ 1969, Repealed. No. 60, SSA Amendment, No 1 Regulations, 1972. No. 68, SSA Anendment , No. 2 Regulations, 1972.

No. 119, Alcoholic Liquor Identification Cards, Regulations, 1972. Nr. 131, SSA Amendment , No. 3, Regulations, 1972. (Fifty copies of each for anybody who wants them) lney are very interesting reading. The Premier reads everything and tells Neary all. Mr. Speaker, I also beg leave to table a signed, type·written or a signed 1 printed copy of the public accounts of Newfoundland for the financial year ending the thirty-first of March, 1972,with a signed copy of the Auditor General's Report for 1972 in printers type script form.

The public accounts are printed with the exception of the second volume which deals wfth crown corporations. The accounts for crown corporations and copies of the public accounts will be made available to the press and the hon. members thia afternoon. The Auditor General's Report, there 1s only one copy, this original one signed by the Auditor General. The 52

February 12, 1973 Tape 19 Page 3 IR printers are now en~aged in printing copies of the Auditor General's Report which should be available in two or three davs so that all I can <lo today is copy this one 53

February 12, 1973 Mr. Crosbie: Tape no. 20 Page l - MRW just one original. The Auditor General says that copies will be available within a day or two for distribution to members of the House of Assembly. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. CROSBIE: March 31, 1972. Mr. Speaker, I would like to draw to the attention of the members that it is for the year ended March Jl, 1972. There are a number of criticisw~ in the Auditor General's Report, many of them which relate to the tenure of the last administration an<l a few which relate to the tenure of the present administration. There are a very few in number.

Hut the point is anyway, Mr. Speaker, that we are not satisfied with the Auditor General's Report. I do not mean with what the Auditor General hns reported on. An effort will certainly be made this year to see that the matters he points out are dealt with. Many of them are due to genulne disagreements as to the proper

interpretation of the Revenue and Audit Act. In anv event this year one of the priorit:i.es of the Department of Finance will be co attempt to resolve differences with the Auditor General on many of the points that he mentions. Now I commend the report to the honourable f]entlemen. It makes for some very interesting reading. NOTICE OF MOTION MR. E. M. ROBERTS (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, may I give notice of a motion, Sir?

WHEREAS, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador has fewer dentists per capita than does any province of Canada ; nnd

WHEREAS, our people as a result do not receive adequate dental care despite the efforts made by the dentists now in practice in this province; and

WHEREAS, it is obvious that the present method of providing dental care cannot in the foreseeable future provide an adequate service to our people; and

WHEREAS, in at least five of the provinces of Canada dental technologists, sometimes called rknturists, 54

February 12, 1973 Tape no. 20 Page 2 Mr. Roberts are allowed to practice their profession if properly nualified and under public supervision; and

WHEREAS, such dental technologists could help to provide better dental servi.ces to the people of Newfoundland nnd Labrador; NOr" THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the government be directed immediately to introduce legislation to nllow dental technologists or denturists to practice in Newfoundlandj and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the legislation sha 11 set forth the professional standards to be attained and maintained by any person practicing as a denturist; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the le~islation provide for a public board to supervise the denturists and such public hoard to include representatives of the public at large and of the government of the province; in addition to «t least one dentist, one denturlst and a medical doctor; and BE TT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the legislation em:;ure that dcnturists are entitled and are enabled to practice other than under the direct supervision of dentists.

HON. T. A. HICKMAN: (Minister of Justice): Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills: A bill, "An Act To Establish An Electoral Districts Boundaries Commission, To Report Upon The Delineation Of The Province And The Districts For Which Members Shall Be Returned To The House Of Assembly." A hill, 11

An Act Further To Amend The Assignment Of Book Debts Act." A bill, "An Act Respecttng -Persons In An Intoxicated Condition In Public Places." A bill, 11

An Act Further To Amend The Companies Act. 11 A bill, "An Act To Amend The Quieting Of Titles Act. 11 A bill, "An Act To Amend The Justices Act. 11 A bill, uAn Act To Amend The Family Courts Act. 11 55

February 12, 1973 Tape No. 21 '.'/~1 - 1 MR. HICKMAN: on behalf of my colleague, the honourable the "'linister of Rehabilitation and Recreation ,a hill, 0 .fm Act Respecting the Department of Rehabilitation and Recreation.H A:1 HO~. MEMBER: Inaudible, !:!ft. HI_g.!S:_~N: It certainly is. I was up all night getting ready for it.

MR. _<;~OSBif:.:_ I give notice that I will on tonmrrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting Conflict Of Interest And Matters Of Public concern." It is wonderful to note the enthusiasm with which it is greeted by the honourable gentleman opposite who voted against it three yenrn ago, WP. do not want to quibhle about this mntter. i1r.

Speaker, I give notice thnt 1 will on tomorrow nsk leave to introduce a bill, an"Act Further To /Mend The nepartment Of Finance Act, 1 ' and '1An Act Respecting The f;unranteeinp By The Crown ()f fert;tin Oonds, Debentures and Loans P.e1cnecting The '-fnVini Of Certnin Loans By The Crown. 11 HO~ DR_.. __ ~T. C. FARRELL, MINI_§_,T~R_ OJ, !RA:;"~J}OP-J0NT _A~D COH',fl'.;'IfCATl.Qf{:_ Hr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, a bill "An Act Respecting The Department Of Transportation And Communication," HON. GERALD OTTEb._'HE.JHJ:R...!..

NI?:ISTER OF EDFCATIOX :_ ;,!r, Spenker, 1 r,ive notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, u,\n Act further To Amend The Department Of Education And Youth Act." ~ .JrDN •. ltE;!flEB.:_ Inaudible. ~1J3:..~. OTTfNHEI"fER: Somebody else give that notice. HON. EDWARD_)!AYNARD,__."-UNTSTER OF ,'\GRIC_lf£URE AfP"l FORESTS: I r:i.ve notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, nAn /.ct nespectinp; The nepartment of Forestry And Ar,riculture, 11 and a hill, "An Act To Amend The Protection Of Animals Act.'' HON,_JLA_l\01D_A. CQLLINS.

MINISTER OF >lllNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND HOVSING: I ~ive notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a hill, 11 ,'\n Act Further To Amend The City Of St. John's Act,'' and another bill, "An · 56

Fehruary 12, 1173 Tape ~-!o. 21 2 r\ct Respecting The Depnrtment Of ~'uni.cipal Affairs And Housinr,.lf !!,0:...,1'!.::... QOROO}~ OAHE, HI!\'ISTER OF HANPOl<!ETI AND rrnUSTRIAL RELATIONS: T P;ive notice that on torr.orrow I will ask leave of the House to introduce a hill, ''An Act Respecting Termination Of EmployF.1cnt Of fuhstantial ·lumbers Of Persons In Certain Industries," and a t, i11, "i'\n Act "Respecting The Department Of ~fan power And Industrial Relations." a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Employment And Notice Of Terminntion Act, Jqnn. ,. HON.

JAHE_~_ ~X}.!?, MINISTER Ol~}P_HAL DEVELOPME)l!..:_ ?,fr. Spenker, 1 p:ivt' notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, 'An Act "R.raspectln~' The nepnrtment Of Rural Development." !!9..:'!.-.,____T~llP,'.!AS __ OO!LE, '1Iill§_TER,QF~ TOURISM: "'!r. Speakt'r, 1 p:ive notit:(; that I will on tomorrow ask leave of the House: to intrmluce the fol lowinv bills, a hill "An Act Respecting The Deportment ;if 1\n1rlsr, 'lm Act To Amend The Hild Life Act. 1' a b"i 1.1, Hm;. LF'.O D. BARRY, MINISTER OF 'HINES AND tNERltY: 'lr.

Spenkf'r, I give notice thnt t will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce n hi 11 entitled, 1 'An Act Respectinr, The Department Of °!'lines And Fnerp;y." ,!!.0.;!.:_J{_I1_L1.A}!__D_9g,!!Y,1. ~INtSTER OF INDUSJRIAL DCVELOP~fH:T: '-!r. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a hill, "An Act Respecting The Department Of Industrinl nevelopment." HON' •. DR. AUGUSTUS T.

ROWE, MINIS_TFR OF HEALTH: 1 pive notice thnt I wi 11 on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, ''An Act To Amend The St, Clrire's Mercy Hospital Incorporation Act of 1960, !' nnd ''An Act To Amend The Oepartrnent Of Health Act." !10!1. A'lTf!ONY J. lij!RPHY_,_J!INISTER OF SOCIAL ASSISTANCF: lfr. Speaker, l p:ive notice thnt I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting The Department of Social Services,!' and PAn Act Further To Amend The Maintenance Act." HON. l!_ • .B:.:._'{_~_ .EARLE, MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS AND SERVICES: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, 57

February 12, 1973 Tape No~ 21 NM - 3 MR. EARLE: nAn Act Respecting The Department of Public Works and Services." HON. ROY CH£E~E~N 1 MINISTER OF FISHERIES: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, '1An Act Respecting The Department of Fisheries." HON, THOMAS V, HICKEY, MINISTER OF PROVINCIAL AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT_,_ Mr.

Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills, ''An Act Respecting The Depnrtrnent Of Provincial Affairs And Environment, 11 and nAn Act Respecting Tenancies And Residential Premises, n and 'An Act Respecting Unsolicited f.oods. Credit Cards," and "An Act Respecting The Registration and Regulntion Of Credit Reporting Agenciesy "and "An Act Respecting The Registration Or Regulation Of Automobile Dealers And Salesmen Of Such.,. ORDERS OF THE DAY, MR. WM.

ROWE: I would like to direct a question to the honourable Minister of Justice, he could answer it orally or lay it on the table of the House as he sees fit. Mr. Speaker. could the minister indicate what steps he has taken either directly or throur,h the agency of his own office or any other office of the government~ to locate the file and papers enclosed therein which a witness at the enquiry before Mr. Justice Mifflin testified she had seen in July 1972, six months after the present government r,ot in power,hut had not been able to locate since and alsoJ Mr.

Speaker, the minister might be able to tell us who asked for the investigation to be conducted. MR. HICKMAN: The investigation was asked for by an official, I have forgotten his title, in the Department of Social 58

February 12, 1973 Tape 22 MR. HICKMAN: Services and Rehabilitation,from the Deputy Minister of Justice and the order was given by the Deputy Minister of Justice, who instructed the Criminal Investigation Division of the Newfoundland Constabulary to carry out an investigation. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. If the minister is not prepared to name the official, he may or may not be, would he confirm or deny that this was made with the appr~val of the minister concerned? MR. HICKMAN: I do not know. MR. ROBERTS: Would the minister undertake to find out ,if he does not know, Mr. Speaker? MR.

HICKMAN: I will take note of it, MR. P.S. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. Do the government recognize the Newfoundland Egg Marketing Board and if so or if not~ would the minister inform this House as to what is government policy concerning the Newfoundland Egg Marketing Board? HON, E. MAYNARll(MINISTER Of AGRICULTURE AND FORESTS): Mr. Speaker, the Newfoundland Egg Marketing Board is ,as the hon~ member is well aware, a board set up by the egg producers in the province. The government recognize it certainly.

The government recognize it through the Natural Products Marketing Act. I suppose that I could make some comment on the recent controversy or release made by the Newfoundland Egg Marketing Board regarding their resignations. I have some background prepared here 'and I can distribute copies to the hon. members. On Friday, February 9, the Newfoundland Egg Marketing Board in a press release indicated they were unhappy with the - MR. ROBERTS: To a point of order~ Is this in order? I mean I am quite willing to listen to the hon. gentleman.

It is more information that we have had for months but is it in order for him to read a statement which 59 JM - 1

February 12, 1973 Tape 22 he said he would distribute? MR. MAYNARD: Do you want the question answered or do you not? MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, of course I would like an answer but the hon. gentleman is not answering it. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). HON. A.J. l!URPHY(MINISTER OF SOCIAL ASSISTA.~CE): Mr, Speaker, before we go into Orders of the Day I would like to take this opportunity, Sir, to ask you to accept this certification of appreciation to the members of the House of Assembly from the March of Dimes Campaign Committee. In doing so, Sir, I would like to thank very sincerely all members of this hon.

House, members of the press and everyone connected with arranging this wonderful ni~ht for the March of Dimes, the Crippled Children~at the Staditmt and to say, Sir, how happy we all are that this affair was such a bang-up success, realizing some $3,000 for a very worth-while project. Seeing, Sir, it is on behalf of all the members JM - 2 of this hon. House,! would ask you, Sir, to hang it in some prominent place to show that there are some among us that are a little bit civilized. Thank you! MR. E.W. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the hon.

Minister of Communication and Transportation or vice versa the Minister of Highways? Is the minister in a position to say - Is the minister listening? MR. FARRELL: Yes, Sir. MR. WINSOR: Is the minister in a position to say whether or not the government will provide a subsidy for people travelling to and from Fogo Island and Change Island and if so, when? MR. FARRELL: Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. member that I will be making an announcement in due course on this matter. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, if I might direct a question to the Premier.

I have a copy of his, I assume it is a copy of his statement before lunch,a diatribe of some_- why he said it I would not know but I would ask 60

February 12, 1973 Tape 22 JM - 3 him if perhaps he could provide me with the information which led him to base the statement which appears in the last paragraph,on page five of the copy I have. The paragraph begins here. and I do have to read this I think~ Sir, to make my question clear,if I may be permitted is great reason to suspect that such information is sooonfed by the opposition and to the less discriminating local reporters who take it as gospel." Well, that is the hon. gentleman's opinion and s0 he it! It is not true but there it is. The question is, Mr. Speakery - MR, MARSHALL: To a point of order, Mr.

Speaker. Questions can be asked. Oral questions can be asked in this hon. House, Mr. SpeakEr, but I think the hon~ Leader of the Opposition will agree they are not to be predicated with long rambling remarks in the nature of a speech or a statement within a question itself. MR. ROBERTS: Now I agree, the hon. gentleman is of course. as always, right.

The statement ~oes on, 11 If such is the case it would be well worth a reporter's time to also learn that the opposition, in particular the office of the Leader of the Opposition"have made considerable use of the Information Service over the past year.'' I wonder if the Premier could tell me when the opposition either through their leader or through the office of the Leader of the Opposition or the opposition as a whole have made use of Information Newfoundland. MR. MOORES: Mr.

Speaker, I can ~et the dates and the occasions and the reason why from Information Services but I was advised by Information Services that Mr. Robert Sinclair from the opposition office had gone down and received various releases and certain information and they are welcome to it. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, the Premier says that we have made use of the Information Service, would the Premier please give us 61

Feburary 12, 1973 Tape 23 P'Z - l at least give us details. An assistant goinr to get copies of releases is not useful. Would the Premier either give me details, Sir,or would he withdraw the statement? As it stands,I suspect it is incorrect. MR. MOORES: I will check with Information Services and regarding the use by the opposition I am sure it was gotten for them by Mr. Sinclair so that they could read, Mr. Speaker. HR. ROBFRTS: Hr. Speaker, the honourable gentleman has not answered the question. I shall deal with it later. May I ask another question? Actually he has just told a terminological inexactitude. Mr.

Speaker. But that is his problem, Would the Premier indicate what steps he or the government as a whole have taken to ensure that the people of Gander are given the right to elect a municipal council immediately? The council of course would succeed the council whose resignation was forced by either an incompetent or malevolent act - AN HON. MEMBFR: On a point of order, on a point of order, Hr. Speaker. MR. ROBERTS:-of the present Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. AN HON. MEMBER: On a point of order. MR.

SPEAKER: I think the honourable Leader of the Opposition is ~etting on with a little more of a speech than a direct question. MR. ROBERTS: Well let me ask a question. Thank you,Your Honour. Would the Premier indicate what steps he or the government have taken to ensure that the people of Gander are ~iven the right to elect a municipal council immediately? MR. MOORES: No, Mr. Speaker, Unlike the previous government.the Minister of Municipal Affairs will do that. MR. ROBERTS: Would the minister care to answer the question? MR.

COLLINS: I have already announced that an election will be held in Gander just as soon as it is feasibly possible. Just as soon as it is feasible- I understand from my officials that it takes about eighty-four days,due to the necessary enumeration to set up the election. 62

February 12, 1973 Tape 23 PK - 2 Hr. Speaker, what I am telling this honourahle House is that my officials tell me that it will take about eighty-four days. if it is sixty-four or thirty-four I will be glad to have the election arranged at that time. hut I believe it is about eighty-four days hy the time we do the enumeration and set the necessary election machinery into motion and give the necessary notice. At any rate if that particular number of days is an inexactitude we will have it just as soon as it is possihle. l1R. ROBERTS: Right away. MR. COLLINS: Ri~ht away. You cannot have it right away. MR.

ROBERTS: I think the minister said this, but let us he clear because I believe there is considerably public interest and it is timely. Is the minister sayinR that the government will make it possihle for the people of Gander to elect a council at the first opportunity they can within the law whatever number of days it may take? MR. SPEAKER, MR. ROBERTS: Orders of the Day. Mr. Speaker, the Premier is in such an informative mood? I wonder if he could tell us anything about any results of the jaunt which he and a number of his collea~ues made to the United Kin~dom last week? !:!!!._.

MOORES: The trip to the United Kingdom will he the suflject of a statement by me during the early days of this sitting of the House, Mr. Speaker, and until that time 1 am not in a position to make a definite statement on it. MR. F.B. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the honourahle Minister of Education.

In view of the fact that a number of school buses have gone off the roads in recent months and that a number of buses have not passed the inspection for licensing and there appears to be inadeqaute funds for financing school bus transportation and there is no educational programme for the training of school hus drivers, can the minister ~ive us some indications as to whether or not his department has any plans 63

February 12, 1973 Tape 23 PK - 3 to avert potential disaster or accidents later on? MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, the department is and does have under continuing examination,has under very special examination the whole question of school hus regulations not only from the financial point of view. from the safety point of view as well. Until those findin~s and recommendations are in final form there is nothing I can say except to say that these matters are being studied and it has been a very short period of time.

The officials of the department, professional experts in the department and related departrnents,will have submitted their advice and views and will be pleased to make those known after I, myself, am aware of them and have had a chance to read them. MR. F. B. ROWE: A supplementary question, ~r. Speaker, have any of the buses that have had the reflectorized licence plates taken from them had any sort of reflectorized tag placed on them in place? l!R. OTTENHEI1'!ER: I will have to take that as notice of question. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. S. A. NF.ARY: Mr.

Speaker, first of all I want to recognize the fact that there are some new memhers of the staff in the House today. I would like to welcome them here. Also, I would like to take note of the fact that sitting on the right side of the House is the member for Labrador South. It is the first opportunity that I have had to welcome the honourable memher to the House. I trust, Mr. Speaker, that he will remain on this side and he vill not he conned into goinp across the floor, as we have seen some members do in the past. Mr.

Speaker, my colleague the member for White Bay Sout~ and I were chatting today and we were talking about an item in the "Evening Telegram" I think it was on Saturday. He and I agreed that we were rather taken back by the headline which we thought stated that the Leader of the Opposition was enraged. After a second glance there. we discovered that the Leader of the Opposition was engaged. So I would like to congratulate him. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, to a point of order, if I might. I want, both 64.

February 12, 1973 Tape 23 PK - 4 on my own account or on the account of an hon member to thank the honourable gentleman and to say that this is other than a very happy occasion,it is also the result of some short-range action as opposed to long range planning~ I will give the Premier and his ministers an example. 65

February 12, 1973, Tape 21,, Page 1 -- aph HR. NEARY: ?J:r. Speaker, I do not know H it is in order yet, I do not know whether it has been made off:tc:inl or not, but T understand that the honourable member for Port au Port is goinr to be elevated to the exalted position of Deputy Speal::er of this House. I do not know what the procedure is, whether it has to he moved or seconded or not. but anyway, if it has not har,pened alrendy, in anticipnticm of its happening I would like to offer him mv congratulations~ ~ir, and tafe note of the fact that he has nm,1 rC>ached the ultimate in life, self-fulfillment.

He is perfectly hapny and I am sure his constituents are quite happy. They do not have any problems in Port au Port, so the honourable memher was t('l lirw: me this morninr. I am glad to hear that. I aM glad to hear it, Sir 1 and we may hear something on that later on in the session. If he has reached sclf­ fulfillment, Sir, and his constituents are happy, then I would sav that he is the only member of the House in that very, very fortunate position. Hr. Speaker, I was somewhat puzzled by the remarks of the member for St, John's South on openin~ clay.

The honoura~le Member mentioned something aPout the present P.C.rovernment(or what people sometimes call the 1·Tory'· r:overnnent) elininating fear in this province, leaving the impression with us, Sir. and with all thnt saw and listened to the honourable gentleman, that such a thinp. existed. Well.

Sir, I have to say to the honourable gentleman thnt if in fact it did exist, even if it only existed in the minds of those honourable gentlemen sittiniz on the opposite side of the House (who set out to do a con job on our Newfoundland people) then, Sir, I would sny that that pfcture has been replaced by a fear that is hard to get at~ a fear of the machine, even of the cocktail machine, Fr. Speaker. We have had numerous examples in the past twelve months of the kind of fear to which I refer and that exists in this province at the present time, Sir. We had an example today, nr. Speaker, a scandalous

February 12, 1g73• Tape 24, Page 2 -- apb C.isplay) a scandalous spectacle by the honourable PreJT1ier of this µrovince. The honoural,:,le member talks about fear. Let me emote a couple of paragraphs from a statement issued at a nress conference today, Mr. Speaker, by the honourable Premier. · The February 10th. weekend edition of the ''Evening Telep-r.::un' is the worst example I have ever seen of screwball journalism.' That is interesting language to come from the Premier of this province~ Pr. Speal.;E'r.

He r-oes on to say; ·nid:fnp, hehind the zwise of columns, ed:f.torials and forums, the 'Telegram' in my view has lost its credihilitv. · The newsnapt'r' he says. 'has become ponulated with axe-grinders clamourinr.- for a causP. It has renched a stage where the "TelegrnM' cannot f>e trusted. T nP concerned 1 the Premier says: 'because the role of the 1 ·Telep.ram' in the democratic process is heinr.: weakened hy this fonn of vellov: _iournnlism. 1 You can hardly believe your ears. 1'-1r. Speaker, when vou listen to it.

Then is goes on and says~ 'A dozen or more itens in the weekend edition is full of biased, persona] insults, inaccurac:fes and contempt.,. He says: ''They have forgotten the meaninp of the word objectivity. 1 67

February 12, 1973 Tape no. 25 Page 1 - MRW Mr. Neary. :Jow the hon. Premier savs this. Out in Manitoba, Hr. Bpeaker, if you criticize the government {there was a great fuss about this recently) you are investigated. In Newfoundland, Sir, they go a little further than that. They go a little further. I will deal with that shortly. The hon. Premier says, i1the editorial decision .. making at the 1 Evening Telegram 1 is an organized campaign against the government. 11 Can you imagine, Mr.

Speaker, can you ima~ine, ,m orpantzed camprtign against the government! 11 Tn the main it is all negative comment, misleading and damn;:;ing to the province,jj the Premier s,1ys. How dare thev down there on Dnd:worth Street, in the Telegram Office, how dare they criticize this government! The Premier will deal with them. The honourable member talks about fear. freedom from fenr. How about freedom of speech'! 11 1 would go so far, 11 the hon. Premier says, '' to say the people of this province need protection from the poison pen writers at the 'Evening Telegram. 111 What kind of protection, Hr. Speaker?

He does not spell it out. \'/'hat kind of protection? Is he going to have the !!Evening Telegram 11 newsmen run out of town, like he had the reporters run off the floor down on the Eighth Floor, like he had two newsmen evicted, escorted out of the building by th~ police? Is this the ki.nd of action he is going to take? What kind of protection does the hon. Premier talk about? 11 Freedom from fear. 0 What about freedom of speech?

"This government," he said, 11 have no intention and no right to try and influence or control the media in any manner , so I would sugp,est that the media get together and clean up this disgusting 1 Evening Teler,ram' garbage. 0 What language for a premier of a province to use, Sir! What an example for a premier of a province to set! I am surprised that honourable members on the opposite side, intelligent as some of them may be, sit there and tolerate this kind of nonsense by the Premier of this Province. The hon. member for Placentia West has a great deal of respect.

People have a great deal of respect for him in this province but they will not tolerate this kind of nonsense much longer. Democracy at work, Hr. Speaker. 68

February 12, 1973 Tape no. 25 Page 2 Mr. Neary. "Several reporters,u he says, "have called me to say that they are shocked and some are even embarassed by the sabotage attempt of the 'Evening Telegram, 1 11 It is a bad reflection on the entire media of this province. He says, nr call on all fair-minded Newfoundlanders to prates t this outrageous, unjustiHed act on the government. 11 Mr. Speaker, need I go any further? AN HON. MEMBER: What about the attacks on 11 Joey? 11 What about the attacks on Premier Smallwood? HR. NEARY: There they are* Mr.

Speaker, 11 lily-white 11 and 0 simon-pure." the Minister of Finance just came back in his seat, the great con-.nrtist of all times and more responsible, I suppose> for havinp: the Tories on that side of the House than any other Newfoundlander alive today. George McLean did not do it, it was the "con" job by the honourable member that helped do it. What kind of n memory do the honour.:1ble members hnve? RemembPr the criticism of the former administration and Premier Smallwood. The hon. member for St.

John's East I am sure must remember it because he was fortunate enough to sit in this honourable House before some honourable members over there ever dreamed that they would be pul iticians, if that is whnt you wnnt to call them, Hr, Speaker. 69

February 12, 1973 Tape No. 26 NM - l "fR,'._J~.l}~RY: Nou. Sir, I am not go:in,;-; tL bel:1hour the point, hut I do want to deal with the

section the honourable Leader of the Opposition raised on page 5, if the honourable Leader of the Opposition was not permitted to read it, I will read it. It starts off the top of pnge 5 by stating the r,overnment's information service was the subject of ,;1 direct attempt to discredit the service:,; by naming it Information Newfoundland, This wns n concerted attempt by the writer to associate the informnt"ion servfre with ;1 national orpanization which has come in for a 1nrp,· amount of public criticism.

It has to he. a case of either gross ignornnce or nalice that prompted the writer to ,1.ssocinte two organizations- that there are almost no resemblance to one. another. It is not the fault of The 'f'.ve.nJ.ng Telegram;' Mr, Speaker, and J hnve no love for The 1 Evening Telegram:' they have done the hatchet lnh on me a few times but I dn nnt hate them. I do not come out nnd criticize them. That is their prerogative They do not like me or they do not like nny member of this House, then they have a right to say it in their editorial column.

He says in addition the writer plucked the figure of $40,000 out of the air and applied it to the cost n f equipment for that service. I rnir,ht say, Sir, that that servi.ce is becoming well known in the news world as the manure spreZJ.der. "A phone call',' the honournhle Premier says 1to any numher of people in government, would havf.: provided that writer with the correct rigure of less than one tenth that amount for the fiscal year 1972-1973!' We will find out when the estimates are brought dmm, Sir, how much Information Newfoundland is costing.

I can tell honourable members this, that 1t is a lot more than The ~ewfoundland Bulletin cost, A phone call, Mr. Speaker, just imagine the r,nll, the insult, a phone call. The Premier has isolated himself from the people of this province. You cannot get through to h±m when he is in Newfoundland, when he is hack from one of these exotic trips that he goes off on~to the delights of Montreal or Paris or London, Then he says, Mr. Speaker, and this is the part that really hurts, 70

February 12, 1973 Tape No,26 ;{M - 2 ~- NEARY.2_, there is a great reason to suspect that any such informntinn is spoon-fed by the opposition to the less discriminating local reporters who take it as gossip. If such is the case, and he is not sure. ~r.

Speaker. whether this is the case or not, if such is the case it would be well worth a reporter's time to also learn that the opposition and particularly the office of the Leader of the Opposition, have made considerahle use of the information service over the past yenr. lt is iwped Ltat LL,., .;Lll r.vntlru, 111 rht· futon, .. t.•1' 1 1,:-11 the honourahle Premier right now that it is not ~o1ng to continue in the future. It did not exist. He did not believe in such n scandalous waste of the taxpayers 1 money and the opposition did not use that information service, 1t has cluttered up our office.

Sir, we only have very limited space in this buildinr, and all the paper that has come up, the trash that has come up via Neufounclland Information Service, is only cluttering up the files in our office, Sir. Tf he wnnts to, he can keep it. We do not want it, Sir. Then the honourahle }-!ember for :St. John's South has thP nudnci ty to stand in this House, Sir, and t;:i.lk about fair. Let me ~ive you another couple of examples. Mr. Speaker of f3ir.

In the last sessinn of the House of Assembly we all rememher the lnfomous O'Dea R.oyal ('omrrdssion. which was tabled in this !louse in the last session along w:i th R dastardly

summary of the report by the honourable Premier, which attempted to prove people guilty by opinion and "Ir. Speaker. follm,:inp.- that controversial report, we heard all kinds of vague illusions to Hr. P_ahinette nnd Mr. Robinette's advice as to possible nction, c.rimin,11 action on the Tory O'Dea Royal Comraission Report. Nobody ever told us Mr. P..obinette's advice. 5tr. Ts ~lr. ~cbinette';-s - and ! ask the Premier and the f'.OVernment today, 1s '-fr. Pohinet te 1 s advtcP heinr; purposely concealed in the effort to continue to bluff the people of 'Newfoundland? Hhy does the honourable Premier or the ~linister of 71

Fehruary 12. 1073 Tape No. 26 NH - 3 MR. NF:A'!ff: ------ Justice not table the Robinette Peport? ;vhy not? It is a public docur-:ent, Sir. It was r.nt pnid for :iy the for Partv nf this province, it wns pnid for the taxpuyers, Pights Associntion did not vocn.lize 11ver thi.s, i.rv;r;L,r_ of :11.,,an rt~i,ts. The nssumption. Sir, tl,nt certain r•coplP are ~utl: fo.cts, Hr. Speaker, hut he:cnuse nf npinioP ·,·,rti•,;an "n~:r,f_s;sion, and tells us that this p-re:tt ndministr-it.l"n 72

February 12, 1973 Tape 27 Page 1 IB has done away with fear. Well, Sir, let me give them another exarnple,if he is not convinced all readv. It would be interesting, ~r. Speaker, to know weather the RCMP in this province vere used as political pawns in the raiding of the home of former Premier Smallwood of this province, I do hope, Mr. Speaker, that this is not so but 1n the absence of a statement or clarifi­ cation from the Minister of Justice who seems to be verv vocal on all kind,; of other matters but is tongue tied i.n this matter, what else can they think?

What else can they think but that the RC'-11' were used for nol itical nawns? If there is not po]:itical background, Sir, to these invasions of pri.vacv, the reasons for the raids must he very serious indeed. The onlv vay that these responsible, the "finister of Justice who went down to CBC on the days the raids took place, Sir, after being in hiding all day. he finallv caught un vith them, issued a statement, I heard his voice, tJr. Speaker, ~iving the appearance that he did not know anything about these raids. That is a fact, Sir. The hon. member can shake his head all he like, Sir, but that is a fact.

He was trving to create the apnearance that he did not knov anything about it. Now~ 'M'r. Speaker, I say to the hon. Minister of Justice that the onlv wav that he can satisfy the peonle of this province and indeed the peonle of Canada. because the RCMP is a national force, is to make a complete clarifving statement. You know, 1'-l'r. Speaker, the ver-v same gentleman, the member f,-r St. John's South, who stood in this House telling us that fear now has ,;:one out the window, no more fear in Newfoundland~ all kinds of freedom of speech and freedom for the press. All kinds!

Now when he was telling us that on opening day, my thou~hts wandered back to these • preChristmas raids on the former premier's house. I was shocked beyond t.1ords, Hr. Speaker, when I heard that the hon. memher for St. John's South was appointed as cound.l to represent one of the parties whose office was raided in Montreal. ~y colleague, Sir, the Leader of the Qpnosition, riointed out that this appointment was improper and a definite con·­ flict of interest existed. Fortm1ately, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member withdrew from the case,hut that is not the point, Sir. Even as a newcomer to this House of Assembly, Mr.

Speaker. and cabinet rank - I suppose the hon. Premier has announced publicily that the hon. member is going to be a cabinet minister. He is only half a minister now. There are only nineteen and a-half - even as 73

February 12, 1973 Tape· 27 Page 2 IB a newcomer to cabinet rank, Sir, and to this House, the·hon. member should realize that he must f!iVe up private nractice. Bis action in this matter is indefensible and has all the earmarks of a pretty gross conflict of interest. Mr. Speaker, in the last couole of weeks, what about the denturists in the province? They felt the sharp knife of the Minister of Justice, God only knows, Mr. Speakert who is going to be next. 74

February 12, 1973, Tane 28, Par,e l -- apb ~ NE~_:_ With all the royal commissions and enquiries that are in progress since this crowd took over, Sir, the honourahle r;enher has the gall to stand in this honourable House anrl tell us th.1t ve need no longer fear this government. Hr. Speaker, the honourable gentleman is not convj_nced yet. The honourable member is shaking his l,end. Let ne give him another example; What about the persecution of businessmen and other people in this province, Pr. Speaker, by the r.eorge 7'1ncC1ean Public Relations Firm?

The ?1inister of Tourism tried to clear up the matter some time ago, when I referred to these scruffy looking puf'Ucations that were out out in tlie name of tourism l:rnt yeilr. Another one :l:.s about to l1e put out on economic development :i.n the nrovi nee, paid for, }-tr, Speaker. hy the government and 'hy hlnd:mai1:ing ndvert-tsinr contributions. Your know, Hr.

Speaker, talkinp about this r.eorpc PncClenn solicitation of ndvertisements for these two public;1tions, is the honourable House aware (and you talk at>out fear) that the }'inister of 'Finance, who was then the :t-,finistcr of Econo!l'ic Development and Ff.nancc. gave Mr. George r-1acClean a letter ,so he could carry :it nround and wnve it under the noses of businessnien and oth~r peorile in this rirovince. approving of this type of propnp:andn? I do not he;::,r the honourahle minister deny that. Talk about conflict of :i.nterest: Talk ahout conflict of interest! The honourable niinister cannot deny it. MR.

CROSBIE: i-nu1t is the noise? It wol-.e rne up. That is rip ht: The honourable rniniste.r had better wah1 up. Pr. Speaker, I nm sure that the honourable mernher for St • .John's South made these state!l'ents on opening day with a forlced tongue or with tongue in cheek. As far as the seconder, Sir, of the motion, on opening day, is concerned, I think I will iust leave Mm to his constituents in the District of Grand Falls, I might point out to h:im, Sir, that the honourable nember 75

February 12, 1973, Tape 28, Page 2 -- apb missed the golden opportunity to be able to announce to his constituents in the mining Community of Buchans, that the lifespan of that nine is lonp.er than five years, if it is loop.er thfln five years. At least he could have levelled with them. He could have told the people out in Buchans ,who are concerned, that the Mine is only going to work five more years. He could have told them whether this is true or false. whether the government has any information on this and he could have also. ~1r. Speaker. told the members of Local 5457.

United Steel Workers of Ar:ierica, six hundred men, he could have told them whether the Premier is goinr,. to take ;my action or not on seeing to it that an official of the company would have to come to Buchans to ner,otiate in pood faith. He had a golden opportunity, Sir, in front of the television cameras,to tell all his constituents in Buchans what was ~oing to happen, what thPir fate is goin~ to be. But no, Sir, he did not do that, he decided to r,et up and praise the government. ~r. Speaker, after mal:inp: these few introductory re;rrar}:s.

I would like to refer to somethinr. else that the honourahle Premier 1:;;1.id 76

February 12, 1973 Tape 29 JM - 1 in the last couple of weeks that rather intrigued me~ l intend, Sir, in the main part of my speech this afternoon, and I only wish that the hon. Premier were in his seat. I intend to find out hov sincere the hon. Premier really is. The hon. Premier asked the members of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition during the throne speech debate to make some positive and constructive suggestions. Well 7 Sir, I intend to do that this afternoon and I hope that the hon. Premier is at least within listeninp distance to what I have to say.

If he is not, Sir, perhaps one of his colleagues would pass him on the information. First of all, Mr. Speaker, I pass on a constructive suggestion in connection with the speeches forecast of a bill to be placed before us this session which will contain certain items to uptrade the public service. Mr. Speaker, in this province we have never had on-the-job training or in-job training as some people would like to call it. Such a programme. Sir. has worked out splendidly in other provinces, doing much not only to improve the handling of their jobs at all levels in the public service but also, Mr.

Speaker, having a tremendous positive effect upon motivation and morale of the individuals within that service. In the Province of Ontario,for example, Sir, one major government department has a built in on-the-job training pro~ramme with competent officials to conduct it. Mr. Speaker, surely the time has come in this province to give very serious consideration to the importance of training as one of the major administrative responsibilities of government itself. Although, Mr.

Speaker, there was only brief mention to it, to the bill,in the Speech from the Throne.I personally feel that it should contain provisions to strengthen and upgrade the public service and to do an on-the-job training programme. Surely, Mr. Speaker, this method of improving our public service is preferable to that of importing into the public service personnel from outside of it on the grounds that there is no -one within 77

February 12, 1973 Tape 29 JM - 2 the public service competent to fill the job openin~s. May I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this method of upgrading our civil service would also be much preferable to bringing into it individuals from outside the service,whether they be from the United States or other provinces of Canada or from the ranks of loyal party supporters, Sir, or indeed from relatives of the hon. Premier himself or other members of his cabinet. Constructive suggestion number one for the hon. Premier. Now, Mr. Speaker, constructive su~gestion number two for the hon. Premier.

Again, Sir, as I went throuth the Throne Speech I came across the passage referring to the royal commission established to report to the government the feelings, opinions. aspirations of the people of Labrador. I am sure my hon. friend from Labrador South wUl have something to say about this when he speaks on the Throne Speech. A constructive suggestion, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Premier, why not disband the present royal commission before it spends too much more of the province's money and establish a royal commission.

Sir on which citizens of this province who are resident in Labrador will have due representation. Surely. Mr. Speaker, the people of Lahrador themselves, if carefully chosen ,--111 know better than any others 78

February 12, 1973 Tape no, 30 Page l - HRL' Mr. Neary. the best methods of discovering feelings, opinions and aspirations of the people of Labrador. That course is suggested, Mr. Speaker, as a constructive effort to the hon. the Premiert to make the work of the commission really effective and not just a sort of po1itici11 sop to residents of the mainland portion of our province and I do not menn Labrador, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr.

Speaker, in the Throne Speech there is a topic which is very dear to the heart: of the hon. member for Placentia We::;t, The Throne Speech forecasts an attempt to avoid a protracturn.1 j_(,ga 1 dispute with the Government of Canada concerning ownership of the province's off-shore resources, by acting in concert with the Governnent:s of Prinrc Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunsw ic.k and Quebec, to ner,otia te w:i th the federal authorities in an effort to attain a just solution to this problem.

There is nothing wrong with that, Mr, Speaker. l would like to sc1v to the hnnourable member that I do hope that the government of this province, by adnptinr a hard-nosed attitude in their bargaining with the federal r,overnment,will not risk diminishing the federal cost-share programmes in this province 1 ' such as that of the Canada Assistance Plan, ~tr. Speaker. from which our province bas drawn such enormous benefits over the past two decades. Further, Mr.

Speaker, may I suggest that if off-shore resources do materialize and even :if thev are not quite up to the expectations of many people at the moment, that any monies secured by the provincial treasury from such resources be used to finance education, the most practical and necessary rather than the merely academic type of education, Sir; relieving us of the necessity of foistinr, upon our people the backward step to a property tax, which however justif-ied it is~ Sir, or it was in mainland provinces in the old days, when land was the primary source of wealth today, Sir, is more and more fading into the background as the basic tax of financing education.

I would suggest' to the minister and to the Minister of Education that should we enter this brave new world and we do become fortunate enough to share in the revenue from off-shore 79

February 12, 1973 Tape no. 10 Mr. Neary. mineral rcN0urce.s, Sir, that we should fol1ow the e:,s:nmple of the Province of Alberta. Under sirrrilar circurnstan(-t•s thev used the extr0ordinary revenues from their mineral resources, otl and gas, tn finance educntion. This matter is raised, of course, Mr. Speaker, as a positive sugge;s;tion to the hon. the Premier, Now, Hr. Speaker 1 I wou1d like to have a few words about the linerboard mill. Ap.ain, Sir, rending carefully through the pages c,f the Speech from the Throne, I came upon a couple of parap,raphs referring t,' t]d, Stephenville Linerboard Mill.

There have been manv suggestions L:;te Iv, Sir. from some persons pretending to have some knowledge of economie; an<l ,if the special branch of economics dea.ltnp; with forest product'>, th.'lt somcti1ing is wrong in the logging operation in Goose Bay. Their suf,gestion, Si.r, is that it is golnr; to be very diffii:ult to keep satisfied the G;;q:antuan appt;titc of the Labrador L1nerboard Mill fpr wood antl that the mill, for a good m::i.ny years in the future,will opPrate as an an nlhatros::; tied on the neck,; of the provincial t:ixpayer. Now you and 1 know, Hr.

Speaker, thnt the orivinal report on thr avai lnhUity of wood for the Une.rboard miJl f'arne from the talented pen and undoubted researchabilities of Dr. Stuart Peters, presentlv spec.I al executive a5sist:mt to the hon, the Premf.cr. Now that there .is snme douht ab,1:it this matter, }1r. Spe.Jker. as to where the timber fnr the mill will 1'nm0 from, would it not ht• a con:,tructfvf' ::.ugp:1Jr:ticn tn urr,c the Premier 1·0 nsk his special executive assistant tr. expLdn on the floor of th:is House, Slr, exactly where the timber is to come from that is to feed nur linerbo.ard milJ?

I throw that out to the Premier as a constructive sugp:estion, Sir. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would Uke to have a word about conflict of interest which we have heard so much about in the last year or so. It is a pity that the hon. Minister of Finance is not in his seat to hear whnt 1 have to say about this. The Throne Speech, Sir, referred to this matter of conflict of interest and prophesied lep:islation reflecting conflict of 80

February 12, 1973 Mr. Neary. Tape no. 30 Page J interest in this session of the House. In the light of this. Mr. Speaker. would it not be a constructive suggestion for the hon. Premier or to ask of the hon. Premier to decline to make future appointments to the civil service or to special commissions, corporations, contractural offlces maintained from the provincial treasury, until there hns been brought in legislation affecting such conflict of interest? Perhaps 1 Mr.

Speaker, it might also be a constructive suggestion to include in the legislation respecting conflict of interest, a clause :invalidating the appojntments already made of individuals placed on the payroll of this province, where there was obviously no effort, Sir, made to publish a competition for the job concerned and where either family ties or partisan,polLtical dcdicati.on appeared,to the public at least, Sir, to be the only reason for appoint1ng such individuals as the Director of Information Services, at a salary of $15,000 annually; salaries of $8,500 each for a press officer and a research officer.

We saw the results of their work this afternoon, Sir. There are other unspecified amounts to secretarial stRff in Newfoundland Information Services and the appointment of the hon. member for Trinity North at a reported salary of $10,000, Sir - $10,000! The hon. member for Trinity North, I note is not in his seat thls afternoon. Oh! the honourable member is in his seat. i-v1rnt docs the honourable member do, Hr. Speaker? Is he a bouncer down on the Eighth Floor? There is standing room only down there now, Sir.

The Premier struts into his office occasionallv when he is in the province and like a peacock says, nkindlv move to the rear. there are a few more cominr, in today." There is s tandinr, room only now, Sir. The hon. member for Trinity North is bouncer number one. The hon. member for Green Bay is bouncer number two. The hon. member for Bay de Verde I believe is bouncer number three. No wonder, Sir, every day iR like Good Friday on the Eighth Floor. I guarantee you, Mr.

Speaker, that that carpet will not he worn out very quickly on the Eighth Floor, not like it used to be, Sir 1 in the good old days, when people could come up and see their elected representatives~but not any more, Sir. 81

February 12, 1973 Tape no. 3 0 Page 4 AN HON. MEMBER: They are working up there now. MR. NEARY: They are working all right, Sir, in Hong Kong, in Venezuela, in Paris, in Africa, in England, flesh pots in Montreal, that is where they are doing their work, Sir, sipping gin. You do not solve the problems of Newfoundland that way. Not only that, Mr. Speaker, then we see two special assistants in Central and Western Newfoundland, at salaries of $12,000 a year and other fringe benefits we are told. What fringe benefits, Hr. Speaker?

One admitted the other day, last week, one by his own admission stated that he had nothing to do for the last year and ti-tat is not the only one on the government payroll that is doing nothinp,, Hr. Speaker. He had nothing to do but sit there and look pleasant and by and by out of the clear blue sky out cnrncs the great white knight, the Minister of Recreation and Rehabiliation and suddenly he has sol'!lethinp, to do, arranging his agenda, chauffeuring him :.round, $12,000 a year cf the taxpayer's hard-earned money, Sir, and fringe benefits. What a scandal, Mr. Speaker! What a joke!

I will say one thinp. about the hon. member for Green Bay. He is reported as having s·tated that he is a volunteer, a volunteer on the Eighth Floor. I hope he is right, Sir. When the estir~ate.s of this House arc brought down we will find out of it is correct. We might have to check the Legislative Disabilities Act. 82

February 12, 1973 Tape 31 PK - l Well I hope he is right. And you know, Mr. Speaker, here is a dandy, a beaut. Mrs. Terry Neary added to the Premier's staff at a suhstantial salary undisclosed. No relation, I might say, Hr. Speaker. except hy marriage. When the honourable the .Premier was confronted hy this, Hr. Speaker. he said that she is receiving an ordinary stenographers pay. Well, Sir, we will find out when the estimates are brought into this House. But I would say, Sir, she is not doin~ bad for a lady who has a key to the Premier's private elevator.

A special parking space out in front of this huilding and a posh office adjoining: the rremier's own ofHce. Not bad, Sir. for one ordinary stenographers pay, $3,600 a year - MR. MOORES: On a point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to inform the gentleman that f..frs. Neary is moved down to another department she is doiny research there - that she had moved down to another department some two weeks ago. MR. NEARY: Well, Hr. Speaker, if she is moved out there will be two more move in, or if they have not already done so. I would like to know, Sir, if her job was advertised?

Did the rnemhers of the civil service have an opportun1.ty to apply? We will hear from the Premier when he speaks in the throne speech. Maybe he can answer some of these questions. And of course, Mr. Speaker, of course we cannot overlook Mr. Nutbeem who was hired mind you at a salary to be negotiated later. The salary to be negotiated later. The Premier asked for a constructive suggestion from the opposition. Is he really serious? Is he sincere? MR. MOORES: Free labour. MR. NEARY: Well then if it is free labour, I say he shnuld be given the citizen of the year award. But I doubt very much, Hr.

Speaker, it is going to he free labour. But if the honourable Premier wants to construct a suggestion I would say that he should block that appointment immediately. Here is a constructive suggestion. Mr. Speaker, the most brazen appointment of all was 11hanger-on 11 Harvey Cole, as Chief Electoral Officer for the province at a reported 83

Fehruary 12, 1973 Tape 31. PK - 2 salary of $16,00 a year. No election on, Mr. Speaker,- there will he no election for the next two, three or four years. Mr. Cole retired down in Colonial Building, $16,000 a year of the taxpayers hard earned money and the Premier asks the opposition to give him a constructive suggestion. Well I will give him a constructive suggestion. kick him out, Give his salary to the mothers of this province who need it to put some clothes on the hacks of their children goinp, to school. Kick out ?-fr. Nutbeem and kick out all the others, the wives of well-to-do lawyers.

The latest one we have heard here, Mr. Speaker, Terry Williams, appointed as Secretary to the committee making arrangement to whoop her up on the Silver Anniversary of Confederation next year. If that does not top everything, Sir, the unmitigated gall. Because that crowd of millionaires on the other side never did believe in confederat-:i.on anyway, Mr. Speaker. Now we are f!:oing to celebrate the twenty-fifth anriversary of Newfoundland's entry into Confederation.

Well then unveil a monument to Preimer Smallwood, get down on their knees~ get down on their knees and thank him for hringing Newfoundland into Confederation. Hill they, Mr. Speaker? Or will they be hypocritical~ Sir? Lashing out taxpayers dollars to Mr. Nutbeem, Mrs. Williams, the wife of a well-to­ do lawyer and all the others to arrange for the Silver Anniversary of Confederation for next year. Well, Sir, I would like to know where we are going to unveil the monument to Premier Smallwood?

After the crucifixion they gave that man, Sir, and are still giving him, nailing him to the cross, driving the nails into his feet and into his hands and now suddenly here they are going to observe the twenty-fifth anniversary of Confederation. No wonder the honourable Minister of Finance would smile. No wonder he would smile. The honourable the Minister of Finance has to pay the bills. What a joke, Mr. Speaker, what a joke. What a joke. MR. CROSBIE: Inaudible. 84

February 12 1 1973 Tape 31 PK - 3 MR~ NEARY: Ah, we will see what kind of celebrations they are. The only living father of Confederation, will he play a prominent role? Or will he be just thrust aside by all these ''Tory hang-ons" that have been appointed to arranger this whooper-up year next year? priority, Mr~ Speaker. You talk ahout You remember how this crowd used to talk about priorities? Priority, Sir. Get ynur priorities straight, they used to say to Mr. Smallt-.mod, the then Premier who brour,ht Newfoundland into Confederation. Get your priorities straight. Now here is a priority for you.

People in thin province have not got enough bread to put on their table tomorrow morning for breakfast - lash it out to Hr. Nutbeem and Mrs. Willia..-ns. I would like to know, ,..r. Speaker, where the honourable the 1'1inister of Finance gets the stomach, the stomach to put up with this? The honourahle the Ninister of Finance went across the floor and back and forth a couple of times on a smaller issue than that, ~ir. A smaller issue than that. Onetime I respected the honourable ~entleman but I am afraid I am losing my faith in him. Hr. Speaker, how about the four deputy ministers who retired on full salaries?

Could not fit into the machinery, :-ir. Put out to pasture on full salary. Then we have special assistants and executive ;:;.-;,:;i~tnnt;; running around like mad-hatters all over Confederation Buildin~ and numerous other political appointments, Sir, which caused NAPE recently to protest vigorously to this government pinpointing the former Minister of Social Services and Rehabilitation, as the numher one culprit. They were ri~ht. Absolutely right. Go down to City Welfare, if you do not think they are right. Go down to Exon House if you do not think they are right. The honourable member might get an eye opener.

They were right. They were one hundred per cent right. Mr. Speaker, in this matter of conflict of interest there should also be careful scrutiny of all favours received by members of the government from businessmen and others doing business with the government, as well as a thorough investigation, Sir, into the Mafialike, ramifications 85

February 12, 1973 Tape 31 PK - 4 of the George ?AcLean public relation firm, whose tentacles, Sir, appear to be extending themselves further and deeper throughout the economic life of this province when every day the tasks primarily, Sir, because of its close identification with the Progressive Conservative Party of this province and of the present P.C. Administration. If we are to have conflict of interest legislation th.it i;:; Pnrtb the pnner it is r>ri.nted on in the"Newfoundland Gazette, 11 "-'r.

Sr,cniccr, ft nust be conflict of interest lepislation thnt will extirnnte. uproot every trace and vestige of politicnl natrona~e which is at present underr.iinin)?: the entire morals and morale of people nt all .levels thorughout this province, completely destroyjn7- their faith, Sir. in the inte)!ritv of politicians and elected representatives of alJ ;1arties. If you are. J!r. Speaker~ to restore the faith in this House, in this goverment, in this administration, tJ,en, Sir.

I would say that this conflict of interest legislation to he brought hefore the House we understand this session, must be the broom ~•ith sufficient $traH and bristles to clean up what has pone on over the par::t few rr.onths in the eves of our people all over this province. TherC' is a constructive su;-,;gestion for the honournhle the Premier. He wants the Liheral Opposition in this nous~ to !'lrovic1e constructive sup.gestions, Sir. there are .1 fc>w. Now Inn, goinr: to ffive hiM another one or two. I noted in the Throne Sneech, Hr.

Speaker, with anproval the clniM of the r.:overnrnent to se·t up a nrop,rarnme herdnninr in 1972 to assist social ass1.stance recipients to locate and take advantap:e of employment opportunities. 86

February 12, 1973 Tape 32 MR. NEARY: Although, Mr.

Speaker, the details in the Speech from the Throne are too few and too vague to get any idea of the type of employment obtained or by Yhat means,and I would like to have more information on this, as well I think the people of Newfoundland would like to have more information on it, that the only thing that I could think of, Sir, the thing being so vague, not being able to figure it out, the only conceivable thing that could come to my mind, Sir. was the type of thing that we have done on Bell Island for the past two JM - 1 years where we have made extensive use of the local incentives programme to provide labour~-intensive projects for people and at the same time to add to the resources of the Bell Island Community through so-doing.

In the last year and a half, Sir, six greenl1ouses were built on Bell Island. notable improvements were made in the distribution of water and sewerage systems, picnic areas have been developed, a community pasture has been enclosed and many other projects completed, Sir, serving the twin functions of providing employment for larr,e numbers of our people who were rendered jobless by the economic marooning of the Bell Island Community in 1966, and at the same time, Sir, providinp, facilities unknown in the District of Bell Island even in the Dosco haydays. Now while the Speech from the Throne, Mr.

Speaker, claims that this activity heralds an entirely new approach in the field of social services it is- quite farfetched, Sir, for me to swallow this in view of what I said has already taken place commencing two years ago in my own District of Bell Island and that has been happening all over this province. It will be interesting, Sir, to hear from the Minister of Social Assistance the exact details of the projects on which the hon. Premier boasts that five hundred people in St. John's and Corner Brook were moved from social assistance roles to become self-supporting citizens. 87

February 12, 1973 Tape 32 JM - 2 Now, Sir? we note also from the Speech from the Throne that the government has been instrumental in commencing neFotiations with the Government of Canada for the purpose of implementing an incentives programme into the present social assistance plan. May I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that those who are in the process of negotiating this plan refer back to a brief which was presented during my term of office as Minister of Social Services and Rehabilitation to the hon.

John Monroe then Minister of National Health and Welfare in Ottawa outlining a formula for the implementation of the guaranteed annual income with a built in motivator to encourage participation in the work force. From this brief, Mr. Speaker, I might quote one example to illustrate to members on both sides of the House the proposal of which I speak, Accepting, Mr. Speaker, the Economic Council of Canada poverty line, a figure of about two years ago,for a family of five the Federal Government would guarantee each such family the amount of $5,015 per annum. This of course. Mr.

Speaker, in 1973 dollars would probably approximate $5,100 per annum today. So let us take the example of a family of five receiving a guaranteed annual income of $5,100. No more welfare cheques, Mr. Speaker, no more building materials, no more fuel allowances and so on, just, one monthly cheque, Sir, covering the share of a basic income or annual income of $5,100. Then the family head, Mr. Speaker, or heads, man and wife, go out and earn more money. If they are employed. Sir, either one or both of heads of the family and they earn less than $5,100 they will keep half of what they earn. That is, Mr.

Speaker, their earnin~s will be reported to the Government of Canada and their cheques be decreased by fifty per cent of their earnin~s. For example, Sir, where a family of five has total earnings of $200 a month or $2,400 a year their annual income for that year would be $5,100 less, fifty per cent of $2,400 or a total receipt from the Government of Canada, Sir, of $5,100 less $1,200, that is, Sir, $3,900 will come to them during the year in cheques from the Government of Canada so that their 88

February 12, 1973 Tape 32 JM - 3 total income for the year will be $3,900 from the government plus the $2,400 in earnings for a grand total income for that family for that year of $6,300, approximately $120 a week, taxable,and that would be taxable, Sir. A constructive suggestion, Mr. Speaker, to those representatives of our government who are discussing means by which recipients of welfare benefits may retain a greater amount of earned income and thereby encourage and foster fuller employment in this province~ Let them look at that brief, Mr.

Speaker, and they will find a good foundation for their negotations and one with which Ottawa is not only familiar, Sir, but with which it has been favourably impressed and towards which I have a strong feeling. Mr. Speaker, our Federal Government is gravating with every day that passes. The cost, Sir, may not be as great as at the present time. If you take unemployment insurance, family allowances, social assistance and all the other forms of social welfare and lump them all together the hon. minister may be surprised at the net result. Now, Mr.

Speaker, it is very difficult despite the ~overnment's much publicized claims to be saving $4 million on welfare programmes to see how savings can be m·ade in such an area. such a programme where every ~rant, Mr~ Speaker, and every dollar that is spent is based on needs, Really. Mr. Speaker, what the government is saying, we have taken $4 million and we are going to spend it on some other programme because their is no need - AN HON. MEMBER: Who said that? MR. NEARY: That is what the hon. Premier said. The hon. Premier said there was a saving of $4 million. What happened to the $4 million?

Was it passed over to pay Mr. Nutbeam and Mrs. Williams and all the other flunkies that are running around Confederation Building? MR. MURPHY: Workman's compensation, civil service commission - MR. NEARY: Is that what the $4 million was used for that was taken from the welfare recipients, taken from the welfare recipients and paid out to expensive executive assistants and flunkies that create an obstruction so 89

February 12, 1973 Tape 32 JM - 4 that you cannot get to see the ministers and you cannot get to see the Premier. Talk about restructuring, Sir. The Premier wants a constructive suggestion. I would say knock down the barriers so that the people of this province can get in to see their elected representatives. There is a constructive idea. But, Mr. Speaker. to save $4 million on a pro~ramme that is based on need, does the hon. minister know or has he told the hon. Premier that there are children in this province who do not qualify for a clothing allowance because they are under school age?

Did the hon. minister tell the hon. Premier that there are children in this province over school a~e who do not get a clothing allowance and their parents are on social assistance? ~- MURPHY: What did you do about it? We increased it, at least we did that much. MR. NEARY! Mr. Speaker, when 1 was minister of that department I did not come out and announce a $4 million saving. MR. MURPHY: You will never be forgotten I will guarantee you that. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, did the hon. minister 90

February 12, 1973 Tape 33 Paize 1 rn tell the hon. Premier that we have men and women, in this province who are sick, who do not have a set of dentures to chew up their food. The hon. ministers shout, 11 four million dollars saved", they sav,and the hon. Minister of Health knows that this is true. You can get n set of dentures, Sir, tf you can get do~m on knees and nrove extenuating circumstances,that vou have one foot i.n the grave. You might with the approval of the minister, vou might get it. Not with any of the officals of the department~ vou have to go to the minister. What about eye glasses, Sir?

You have p_ot children ln this nrovince, Sir, who can hardly see. They are nearly blind, nearly hlind. Women and men. <::enior citizens. Sir. The hon. Minister of Health was bursti.np, to get on his feet there when the leader of the nnpos:ition brought in a resolution legalizing denturists, so at least these people will have a chance, as slim as it mav he, to get a set of operational molars. The 1'finister of Health will have his opportunitv on private members dav. Eve glasses, I was dealing with eye glasses. Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, may I he oremited to carry on in silence?

The hon. member did not tell the Prenlier, the hon. minister, about the number of senior citizens and old age pentioners and veterans and children and men and women in this nrovince who can not see, who are almost blind~ Take the four mi.llion dollars. scatter it out, pay ten thousand dollars to the member for Trini.tv North, lash it out to the member for Bav ne Verde and Mr. Nutbeam and Mrs. Williams but do not extend the programme, Mr. Speaker, do not extend the orop:rarnme. Save the money, save the money, Mr.

Speaker, while these men, women and children in this province do not have enough food on their table, not enough nourishment, not enough fuel in this cold winter that we are having, Sir. What does the Premier say? He boasts about it. I would not boast about it if I were the Premier and the hon, ministers should have told the hon, Premier that there was four million dollars there, but let us extend the programmes. Let us ~ive a five dollar increase on the fuel allow:mce as the previous administration did. Let us uo the food allowance.

Thirty dollars a month, thirty-five dollars a month for an adult for food, thirty dollars a month for food for a child and the hon. Premier says that we saved four million dollars 91

February 12, 1973 Tape 33 Page 2 IB on this programme. What a joke, Mr. Speaker, what a joke. That crowd of millionaires on the other side, they do not understand, Sir. Now, under­ stand :f.L They pay the penality, Sir. with the number of letters and re­ quests and phone calls that are pouring into rur office everv day about poor, hungry children in this province and they are hun~ry , Sir, and people shiver­ ing in their shoes, living in shacks and the hon. Premier has the gall to tell us they saved four million dollars on this programme. The hon.

Premier will have a chance to get up and explain himself to this House and to the people of this province. It is a fact, Sir~ it is true. The hon. members only saw some of the conditions that I have seen in the last four or five years in this province. ~r. Speaker, there were more reforms. Yes, I did look after Bell Island and I am not ashamed of it. If the hon. minister were living in some of these shacks and houses and dumps, he would look after his constituents too and I hope that he battles for his constituents as much as I battled for mine.

What did the hon. minister do for Peterview out in the district of the hon, member for Gander? Eighty-three thousand dollars to upgrade housingJ a blank check, and he was right. I agree with him. Yes, the Blackhead Road, I approved one for the Blackhead Road and I did the right think and I was in the process of approving one for Mundy Pond and I would have done the right thing. If I had been there, I would have approved it up in Peterview. Anybody who has seen Peter­ view would be ashamed to admit that he was a Newfoundlander. Why not upgrade the houses? Mr.

Soeaker, the hon. minister talked about the poor man''i champagne and the price of beer. 11 When we are elected, 111 he said, "when we get uo there in Confederation Building, down goes the price of beer." Down goes the price of beer, my foot, up goes the price of screech. That is what the hon. minister did, that was his re­ ward, that was his reward for conning the people of this province. Sir, I was elected to this House to speak my mind and if the hon. gentleman does not like it, he Can always leave. Mr. Speaker, the hon.

Premier has the nerve to boast • This was his Christmas present to people who were unemployed in Newfoundland through no fault of their own. Thi~ was their Christmas present. 92

February 12, 1973 Tape 33 Page 3 rn "We saved four million dollars on welfare", he said, "un to the present time 11 , and children hungry in this province. 1 am sure he could have tRken a part of that four million dollars and ~iven it to bus driver from Port De Grave to help bus the poor little children in Juniper Stump in to schooL He could have at least acknowledged a reply to some of the correspondence they had from the town council over in Ray Roberts to extend their water and sewerage. No more water and sewerage. That is finished. Enough infrastructure in Newfoundland, ve are told by the Premier.

Fids standing on the side of the road in the district. of Port De Grave. h'e can document it, t,1r. Speaker Kids not picked uo in Juniper Stump. The hon. member drives by, hehind the wheel of his bus, drives behind the wheel, Sir, on a wet, cold dav. MR. WILSON: ,.fr. Speaker, that is not a point of order. Sit 1~own. That is not a point of order. Mr. Speaker, is this a point of order? Sit down, Sit dovn. MR. SPEAKER: Order, order. I would like to remind the hon. members that the gentleman from Bell Island does have the right to be heard in sjlence~ MR. WILSON: Mr. Speaker - J{R.

NEARY : 'Mr, Speaker, if it is getting to hot. I will make the chnrge. The hon. ?-linister of Finance is coming to the rescue, coming "to the rescue the great white knight, here we come. To the rescue! The hon. Minister of Finance better get some friends over here because he does not have very many left. He better make a friend of the member for Port De Grave and, as I started to say , ~1r. Speaker, what ahout the town council of Bay Roberts? Not even the courtesy of a reply to other correspond­ ence of the Minister of Municipal Affairs and to the hon.

Premier and to the hon. member to extend water and sewerage in the Town of Bay Roberts. The hon. member will have ar)opportunity when he sreaks in this Throne Speech. Sir, to answer some of these queries but! can not help, on a da:v like today I can not help but thinking about these noor little children standing on the side of the road in Juniper Stump and in other narts of the district of Port De Grave, passed by. The hon. member sits up hehlnd the wheel of the bus, driving her by.

I do not know if he is going to be included in the safety pror,ramme that my colleague, the member for White Bay North 1 was talking abouttor St. Barbe North. I hone so, Sir. 93

NEARY: and if I had tl~e time, Sir, T h'tm]d have n fc· nll with the honourable p.entlenan nhm1t rural developnent 10:.nf- tco. But I will deal with that when the ti.:-:ie t·o:r;es. I will de.-il ,,,Jt 11 it, '\fr. Speaker. You talk about conilict of interest, Sir. HR. CROSBY: You can talk about rentinr eqniprr.ent too. 11-fR. NEARY: I will talk about rentinr, equirment. T idU t;i}t a1,nut logs and saw mills and who is benefitinr~ hy it. The lmnm;rnhle. Premier better smarten. up. better perk up. Jle is gettinr t;ii'.en t:n the cleaners. Anyway we will deal vi th that later.

We FH l den l wit'· the honourable memher later, Hr. Speaker. ronstructive sug["f"Stinn to the honourable Premier,though that he put a. stop to this, There we have it, Sir, without repentinp; myself I um ofrnid tl1;1t that is one statement that I could not swallow and I paid very strict attention to what the honourable Premier said about savinr. ::;4 mUlion on social assistance. 54 million,he says,nnd the children of this province below school age not given n clothing allowance hy that government who saved $4 million, children above school a":e, what are they supposed to put on them to ,-:e:.r, 'fr. Speaker?

Would the honourable Premier tell me? ~lo eye ,,.J asses. no dentures, no school tax, fuel allowance not enough to hent up these poor little houses that they live in, Sir. no insulation, S:we the $4 million the Premier says 1 lash it out to ~fr. Nutbeem, and fArs. Williams and 'frs. ~leary and all the other well•-to··do people. in this province. There is a constructive suggestion. As I started to say.

Sir, the r,uarnnteed annual tncome concept with a built in motivator to encourare participation, even if it is only on a seasonal basis, Sir, in the work force, is the only true way to help the WPlfare recipients in terms of dollars and in terms of an erosion of their morale. I hope that the honourable Premier has made a note of that constructive su~gestion. I note with approval, Mr. Speaker, the government's intention to proceed with the plan that I announced some three years ago. of 94

February 12. 1973 Tape No. 34 MR • __ NEARY: regional homes for the aged which would be strategically placed in keepini;; with the environment in ,,hich senior citizens spent their lives and close to their relntives nnH friends with whom they are familiar. Sir. I am very pl~nsed. '1r. Speaker, tn note that one of these homes is goinp. :1.n Your Honour 1 s m-m district. As Your Honour knows, I went to Lewisporte and negotiated with an inter-faith group in Lewisporte for this home and approved it he.fore I got the boot, before I got kicked out, approved that home in tewisporte as well as the one in St.

Anthony, Sir. AN HON. MEMBER: That is the Bnhb C:onstruction "fernorial Home. MR. NEARY: The honourable Leader of the Opposition will de,11 ,dth the Babb Memorial. Sir, the one in Grand B;mk, the honourable. ·Minister of Justice I s lobby was not successful in this instance. He may have been successful in p,etting victims of industrial accidents included in the special welfare fund in St, Lawrence but his lobby to get us to buy that motel in Grand Bank or Fortune, located hetween Grand Bank and Fortune.for a senior citizens hor:ie, was not successful.

A:~HQN_:.,___1'-tEl'!!!,F:__R__:_ It was the whole building not iust the lobby. that was the trouble. MR. NEARY: So, Sir, I was the instrument in getting these homes approved. I have to say that I am ln agreement with that part of the Throne Speech. But an even more important part of thnt original plan was overlooked. World experience, Mr. Speaker, has shown that for every senior citizen who will be reasonably happy in an institution, there are fifty for whom institutional life is a curse. So may we hope, Mr.

Spenker. that the present Social Assistance Department, the honourable minister will make every effort to provide the services. I am not talking about rehabilitation as such, I am talking about assistance to old people. I will deal with that in a second. If the honourahle minister would just relax and take it easy I will enlighten him. I hope that the present Minlster of Social Assistance, Sir, will make every effort to provide 95

February 12, 1973 Tape No. 34 NM - 3 }fR. NEARY: the services that will enable the aged to live on for as long a time as possible in their own homes. for there they will be the most happy. In this regard, Mr. Speaker, three years ago I announced a plan~ over here at the Arts and Culture Centre, for looking after senior citizens who wanted to reMain in their own homes and who needed assistance to repair these homes. It was announced down here at the Arts and Culture Centre, Sir, and also for veterans, the honourable minister was there. He probably heard me.

Veterans who have contributed so much to our society, who are today living on fixed incomes and people on old age pensions, I said and 1 repeat it here today, that the government that I was a member of would help these men and women and children to repair their homes. No sooner had this administration taken office, Str, when that was cut out, dropped. No more assistance for senior citizens to enable them to live in their own homes and that admission was made recently by an official of the honourable minister's department down at the ~ifflin hearing. Cut out - it is not new to me because I henrd it before.

I am p.ettl.np, the rumblings from senior citizens in this province and veterans and other people who are unemployed through no fault of their own or sick or disabled or widowed. The only ones that would get material to repair their homes, we were told, were people who were on long-term assistance. AN HON, MEMBER: Hogwash. MR. NEARY: That is not hogwash and the honourable Premier boasts about saving $4 million. How are you going to encourage old people to stay in their own homes, Sir? They may not qualify for other forms of assistance, Mr.

Speaker, but the least we could do would be to give them a bit of building material to fix up their poor old rnmshackled house that had a broken window or a leaking roof or thn.t the wind and the snow was whistling in through~ !ff!.._J:!.URPHY: Is it true you were not permitted to buy insulation for these homes? 96

February 12, 1973 Tape No. 34 NM - 4 MR. NEARY: :fo.,, it is not true. MR. MURPHY: There is a lot of truth in it. I changed it last month. MR. NEARY: There it is. There is it, "Ir. Speaker, the very first act of this government was to give the poor old mothers - the school allowance got the axe. Then, Sir, along comes the honourable Minister of Social Services nnd he gives the senior citizens and the veterans the axe and people who are unemployed through no fault of their own and the Premier asked for a constructive sup:gestion. I would suggest to the honourable Premier~ Mr.

Speaker~ that he reverse these decisions that were made in haste and without thinking. There is a constructive su~gestion. Now, Mr. Speaker., I would like to deal with the matter of youth and education. MR. SPEAKER: Before the honourable member continues. I would just like to remind him that he has ten minutes left. MR. NEARY: Thank you, Hr. Speaker. I think I can wind up in ten minutes. Mr.

Speaker, there was a promise in the Speech from the Throne to establish a major division of the new Department of Rehabilitation and Recreation be voted to youth activities and the setting up of youth advisory councils throughout the province. Mr. Speaker, that will just be a lot of !?;Obbledygook unless there is a departure, Sir, from the bonds and the chains of the irrelevent school system and curricular that we are processine younR people through today. There must be fundamental changes made in our education system, Sir. Education itself must be completely retaur,ht. Ivan 97

February 12, 1973, Tape 35, Page l -- apb PR. NEARY: I11ytch or Illytch as mnyhe the Hinister of Fducation might want to call it, ~3de a plea for deschooling society. Sir, that plea is worth l:isten:!n)! to. 1 ap:ree, !'Ar. Sneaker, that society must he deschooled from the kind of school we have had in the past. Unrest today, Sir, among our younp,throu_p:hout the Hnited States, in Europe and the Far East, has not yet hit Newfoundland with its full tidal force, but it will, }fr. Speaker, unless soreethinf really and fundamentally different is done in the nrea of our thinking on educational matters. Mr.

Speaker, today our young pcople.,more and more in every province, even here in the Province of Newfoundland where we pay them to go to school, are rejecting education, particularly nt the university level. On the mainland today, Sir, universities in Ontario and Quebec and some other provinces are going into the rerl financially because students are no longer floc!dnp: to them. These institutions, Mr. Speaker, are suffering decreases in nnticipnted enrollment that plunges them into r,rnve finnncjnl difficuJties. Let us he warned hy what is r;ojnp on elsewhere.

Sir, and mat·e every effort to restore common sense to education. Let us at'ove all. irr. Speaker, concentrate on devoting a po0t1 p;1rt of the educational process to develordnr :in our vounp: peon] e tht' rif!ht attitudes to life and living. 1 he attitudes, Sir, that will u1tirr:atcly lead them to that self-fulfillment in their lives nnd life's uork which is among the chief expectations and the chief human r:i,r:hts, properly a birth entHlerr.cnt of all human f'einrrn. I am glad to see, SJr, that the government intends to do somethinp, a.tout the quality of instruction in our schools. For too long, ?- 1 r.

Speaker, the entire educational structure has been dor1inater! by l'l naci rat race of certificates 1 eertificates, Sir, which hnd no renl conncctlon with professional competencies, with the ahility of the teachers to instruct . . 98

February 12, 1973, Tape 35, Page 2 -- anb What practical value, ! .. r. Spca!-:er, is thf>re to a child, in the eletnentary or in any grade school of this province, to haVP his teacher go throur,h a series of many hours spent nt borirn! evening_ or summer vacat·!on lectures at Nernorial Fnivcrsity. iust to acouire a :ness of fancy papers entitling Mn to an up;r.radinr? Whht our teachers need today, t1r. Speaker, in the elenentcry schools in particular and even at the h:l.p,h school level, is tndninp- in actual. realistic teachinr methods. Commor.-tH"nse tcach:tnv methods, SJr, not crackrwt innovntions.

He must find a way of rewardlnt competent teachers who irnve the nH.li ty tn instruct nn<l educate rather than merely the ahility to co.llcct pieces of pnper frow the Education Department over at Pe!T'orinl Pniversity. Everywhere in North America, Pr. Speaker, except here, the teachinp certification racJ,et is beinf exposed for the fraud it is. Does the oresent admin:i.strnt:Jon hnvc the courar,e and the common sense to r:o to the heart of what :i.s v-rronr v;ith our educational system and rir-ht matters? There is a constructive idea for the honourabl~ Premier. HON.

G.R.OTTENHEIMER: (Minister of Educati<?!!)..:,_ What snedfically does the honourable neM.bPr mean; ''go to the henrt to ritdit iL Mr. Speaker, I only have a limited amount of ti.me and I have to cover restructurinp:. !!8..:. OTTENHEII~E.L mrn.t l!...:ies the honourable gentleman actually thinlr ••. :t-IB.~ NEA~ l~r. Speaker, in the concluding parar-raphs of the Srieech from the Throne. we learned that the rovernment is now comnletin? a five year financial plan which will allow for long term, orderly borrowing or spending. I do hope. J>i'r.

Speaker, that the government is also working on as effective and efficient a plan for repayinr, the huge amounts so lavishly borrowed to enable them to reach tremendous peaks, unprecedented peaks that we hnve attnined over the past twelve months in lashin~ out treasury money rip-ht, left and centre. 99

February 12, 1973, Tape 35. Page 3 -- apb I am afraid, !--lr. Speai:er, that I will have to keep rny tongue nt least a hit jn dwd- and have nore constructive comments on this when the budtet is brought down. tfr. Spf!.11ker. we are told in the Speech and I emote: the description of the new admi.nistrative system; '<'F1ex1ble, onr:oinr; and sensitive to the needs of our neople.· Hriw on enrth, Hr.

SpeaJ·er. can this povernment be sensitive to the needs of our reonJc, when each minister is protected from all disturl"'irif contacts with nrolet.idnt bacteria by squads of executive assistants and plntoons of puhHc relations men? As for the efficiency. ~r. SpeaV.er. restructuring I have some very serious doubts about the econom:i.c pr<1cticahility of the whole matter. I al"'! told, Sir, for example; that tht> restructuring changes have cost the province .:ilready, just in stationary alone 1 a bill of Sl million.

No one has yet been ahlc to calculate the cost of the revision and the renrintinp. of various acts necessitated by restructuring. Jt will be a few months vet, Sir, before we know about these amounts and whnt will be spent in the rental for premises of our rapidly mushrooming (1 f the honourable memhers will allow me to use that term) of so many government departments, as well as the cost of pensioning off on full pay those unable to he f:i.tted into the new machinery. They are just not limited to deputy ministers, Sir.

I do have grave doubts about this whole matter of restructuring, but I need not emphasize them here, as in recent weeks in the columns of the people's paper~ 1'The Evening Telegram," t,:hich the Premier is so sensitive nbout have appeared several excellent arti.cles exposinr the inefficiency, the unsuitab:Uity and the dreadful extravagance of this whole restructuring brain-wave, which is not so much a hrain--wave, Hr. Speaker, as it is an incubator for hatchin11 new jobs for party supporters, friends and relatives of the administration. Harmony hall, Sir, with nebotism added. 100

February 12, 1973, Tape 35, Page 4 - apb Mr. Speaker, in drawing these constructive re~arks to a close, may I point out to the honourable the Premier that despite his promises, his specific promises before each of the pnst two provincial elections on Bell Island, nothin!? has been done to improve the ferry service between Portugal Cove and Bell Island. Fay I make another constructive sugp,estion, ~!r. Speaker? That the honourable Premier do sornethinp to carry out thjs election promise.

May I also constructively suprcst that he nlsri work to see that Bell Island is included :i.n the desj;mated DREE areas of the province, so that industries mav be set un, Mr. Spcat'"er, and RS many as possible of the people be removed from welfare hv the organization of labour-intensive industrial projects and full use he mnde of the exist int; infrastructure. Nay I also, constructively of course, }'r. Speaker. suggest to the honourable Premier that Bell Island prior to the openinp: of the Dosco mines was a well knot,m vcretnhle garden for St. John's and that it now be included jn any rural deveJopment plans.

The 1uccess of the six large r,reenhouses built under LIP grants. Sir. already proved in the nine tons of tomatoes produced and snld last sunm1c-r when only three were functioninp- (six will be functioninr this year) added direct sales to the distribution of St. John's sunennarkcts. Inclusion in rural development planst Sir, I nm certa:tn will give thnt additional stimulant and would enable residents of Bell Island to make an even greater contribution to the healthful eatinv of the people of St. John's throup:h the production of a wide variety of vegetahles and some fruit. Finally, Mr.

Speaker, I hope that the honourable Premier will give serious attention to the constructive sugp;estions I have placed before the House today and also to those vhich my collea;rnes among Her }'!a_iesty 1 s Loyal Opposition will be voicing in the dvys nhead. We hope, Sir, that we mny take him nt his word when he sup;gests that he is seeking suggestions for the good of the people of Newfoundland and 101

February 12, 1973, Tape 35, Page 5 -- apb Labrador, whose will is the only valid reason, Pr. Speaker, for all forty-two of us sittinr on the floor of this House of /o.sser:,t'ly of Newfoundland and Labrador~ J!QN. W.W.1'1,i\RSHALL {Ifinister without Portfolio): Hr. Spe,nkcr, 1 rise to my feet at this point in time, principal) y hecnusn I Has scheduled to sneak and I have to confess after hearing the honourahle memher for Bell Island, I feel rather lil0 e p:oinr. home.

I wish that the honourable r,,embcr for Bell Island had perhnns heard my words before, with referencf' to the "people 1 s'' nnpcr and ~ith respect to the subiect of conflict of interest before he addressed his remarYs to the Premier's press conference. I might ndd thnt it :is not' wy custon to snt>ak from prepnrcd notes, hut I have sone of this written out which I nm prepared to p:ivc to the gentlerien of the nress afterwards, some copious notes to ensure that I nm nuoted correctly. }Ir. Spenker, I do not seem to have too much of a nro1'lcw in getting quoted, the point is r:ettinr_ emoted correctly. ~1r.

Snectl-·er, I should first like to direct the attention of this honourni•le Fouse to that part of the Speech from the Throne relating to conflict of interc>st. The editorial appearinµ: in the 1 'Eveninp Telegram" (;mrl in ;iccordanc.c Fith the rules of the House, I have the r,aners here for filing if necessary, the full papers) On February 8, last. ,iumped to the unsubstantiated conclusion that government was wen1~ening in its resolve to enact potent conflict of interest lepislation. I should like to po:int out at the outset that this is untrue, without any foundation 102

February 12, 1973 Tape no.36 Pagt;; l - MRW Hr. Marsha1.1 and in fact without any substance whatsoever. We shall brinr to the. floor of this House, in this session, adequate legislation uffos,_·t ing t area as will be decerned when the particuLlr provision,; of the bill .nn revealed.

However, before this specific measure is introduced :it might be well to address our thoughts to this subject of conflict of interest. and how the unfair and unjust applit'ation ct the hGnJs of the unir.fonu:d or the pure, plain, malicious can dcstrov the very ronts uf thl.s Asse: 11hJ,· by casting doubts upon the honesty and integrity of the individtu1 members. This, Hr. Spe;:1ker, is a very real danger wh J ch must be. avoided ;it a 11 costs.

In my opinion) no more. real cxarple can be afforded than in the recent allegations dtrected to tte .in the "Eveninr, Telegram, 11 to me the effect that a conflict of interest has occurred because in private life I continue to act as solid.tor for a client of ten year's du.r;i_tinn; namely, the Hank of Montreal which happens to be the prime (you wi.1 l nutc) but not the sole bank of this province and has had this position for a period of over five decades. tri these accusations I mi1;ht say, Hr. f;peaker, as might he expected, the hon.

Leader of the Opposition joined in ch:1ra..-teri::ti fashion, ever constant with his vituperntive_, am1 Heeminr,ly careless vf the consequences. I might state th;:it when the hon. Leader o[ the Oppositi,,n was quoted in the paper, where the headline said: 11 TI1c ;,farshall Affair Las Going To Be Aired," he joined in the trny , <louhts entered my minci si.n:c it is quite obvious that if any one were an expert in conflict of interest, he most certainly was, havinr, seen it in operation and having acquicsu'd in its practice for so many years. 1n any event, ~tr.

Speaker, when the smoke cleared, if in fact it has, that great bastion of public libcrtv in the peoplc 1 s paper bad so distorted the facts, in its application of its conflict of interest principles, as my own personal reputation, integrity and honesty was impugned by Innuendo which neatly avoided the laws of libel hut cast a shadnw whid1 I have no intention, :,tr. Speaker, of ignoring; therefore, I wish to avail of th:is 103

February 12, 1973 Tape no. 36 Page .3 Mr. Marshall opportunity to place on record in this honourable House the complete facts. By this I would hope not only to plainly set forth the true posi.tion hut to demonstrate how application of this conflict of interest principle, in the hands of the uninformed, can result in driving people out of public life~ Let me first recite the complete facts about the situation. Again I note that I have been acting for the Bank of Montreal as its solicitor for over ten years. While I have not enjoyed this position exclusively (I will reveat that.

I have not enjoyed thn.t position exclusively, Mr. Speaker, since other lawyers also act for the bank in vv.rious matters) it is one of my clients. It has been for ten years. 1 have nan.aged to gain this client as a result of fifteen years of hard work in the practice of law. There has never been any attempt to hide or keep this relationship secret because there has never been any reason so to do. If anything, there would be a tendency to welcome public recognition of the fact that one enjoys the confidence of such a large concern. It is also a fact, Mr.

Speaker, that the Bank of Montreal has been primt' hanker for this government for a period longer than the lifetime of most members of this Chamber. It is not the only banker and I emphasize that ngain since most other bank.a and indeed most other fiscal institutions in this province also conduct business with the government in one way or another. This was the situation then, Mr. Speaker, when I entered the cabinet in Jnnuarv of 1972 and remains the position. I do not mind informing the honourable House that as far as I am concerned it is going to remain the position.

Furthermore, I hope the relationship continues despite the efforts, the base efforts contrary. The only material change, Hr. Speaker, since my entry into this cabinet has been this: I have not, I would not, I would not be requested to act for the bank in its relationship with this government. The bank would not even contemplate asking me and any work which was required by necessitating 104

February 12, 1972 Tape no. 36 Page 3 Mr. Marshall any approaches or dialogue with this government, if they did in fact arise, because I do not know, must have been conducted by one or more of the other legal firms which the bank uses from time to time. Furthermore, Mr.

Speaker, if I were a weak enough individual to allow my solemn word of honour to be doubted to such an extent, I might be prepared to swear on a bank of lie detectors that during my tenure as minister of this crown, I have never uttered one single syllable about any client in an effort to gain an advantage or avoid a penalty for that person or concern. Most assuredly, Mr. Speaker, I have never breathed a whisper about the bank's position in relation to the 0 1 Dea Royal Commission and this fact, Hr. Speaker, could be verified,by any one who chooses to doubt my word,by anv and all of my colleagues.

These then are the bare facts of the situation and let us now look, Mr. Speaker, how the practice of base, yellow journalism in its worst and cheapest form can so twist the facts that my own reputation, honesty and integrity have been called into question and impugned. When listening to this story 1 Mr. Speaker, let no member in this honourable House rest comfortable since the same incredible distortions can affect him tomorrow.

Afterwards, perhaps, let us try to define sem; tbly that expression which has become a cliche' phrase, that is "conflict of interest•; and how the application of this phrase by the irresponsible or the ignorant or by the ignorant and the irresponsible can tear at the very fabric of this assembly and indeed our society. On Thursday, February 1, 1972, there appeared in the 11 Evening Telegram" an anonymous letter signed by, 11Amused0 and allegedly emanating from Halifax, Nova Scotia.

This poison-pen letter suggested that the real reason for the government's failure to act is the Premier 1 s wish not to interfere with the hon. member for St. John 1 s East. The innuendo expressed in this letter, Mr. Speaker, is false, is cowardly, is vile. As you might expect, Mr. Speaker, when considering the facts first recited about my long 105

February 12, 1973 Mr. Marshall Tape no~ 36 Page 4 tenure with a private client, these unfounded charges in that letter were rather upsetting to see on the Thursday night. I refrain from calling anybody or doing anything until the following morning. The next morning at about 10:00 A.M. I picked up the phone and called Mr. Steve Herder of the "Evening Telegramn whom I have known for some years and conversed with him about the letter.

The check, I state, was a private one in which I acquainted him g,.merally with the above facts, the facts that I have .already recited and told him that it seemed rather unfair to print the letter. During that conversation, I also pointed out that while I was,(I want to emphasize this fact, Hr. Speaker) I was not disputing the paper's right to print observations about public fizures; even elected members had private lives, I suggested that I did not feel that a vecy satisfactorily and honestlv held and maintained solicitor-client relationship ought to be jeopardized by a poison-pen letter, I informed Mr.

Steve Herder that since I preferred not to reply, having no wish to involve a private client, That should surely be understandable. That should surely be understandable. Any one who has more than Grade III education, Mr. Speaker, or who has no education at all, can understand the confidential relationship that exists between a solicitor and a client. I then stated that regardless of the views, I told Mr. Herder that I thought the facts were untrue. In any event it seemed rather unfair to allow an accusation to be flung at public figures while allowing the accuser 1 s identity to remain anonymous.

The conversation I might say was most amiable. Mr. Herder had not read the letter at that point but he interrupted the conversation 106

February 12, 1973 Tape 37 PK - 1 to read the text. His immediate reaction was one of dismay, if one can judge the emotional reactions coming across the telephone wires. He :indicated that the insertion of a letter of this nature in that form did not meet the nTelegram" standards and intimated that he would look into and call me back~ I rang off rather happily feelin~ that this was an end of a distasteful incident which unfairly and falsely attacked my integrity an<l invaded as I Ray a. legitimate private solicitor/client relationship. Let me point out this again~ that my conversation with Hr. Herder, t--fr.

Speaker, was a private one. 1t was private between us. It was styled as heing off the record, which is a general description of such encounters. However, there is no way, Mr. Speaker, there is no way that I intend to accept the unfair and treacherous attacks made in the best traditions of cheap and sensational journalism without revealing all of the facts involved. If "People's Paper 0 wishes to infer dishonesty on my part, I have no intention of remaining mute and will defend myself with all the infonnation available. It is interesting to note, Hr. Speaker, that Hr.

Herder stated that the cheap poison pen letter, now he did not call it a poison pen letter, hut the letter he did refer to which started it all did not meet uTelegramn standards. This is certainly true I might say, Mr. Speaker, of the standards set by the former owners and maintained scrupulously up to recently by the late 1-1r. James Herder up to the time of his death.

However, the standards of the 0 Telegram'was obviously lowered when control passed to tht Baron of Fleet and the editorial policy of this once respected paper changed to the pursuit of yellow journalism in its basest form,in an effort to sell papers at any cost~apparently careless of the reputation and integrity of all. My next contact, Nr. Speaker, with the 11 Telegram 11 crune in a telephone conversation with Mr. William Kelly of the 11 Telegram 11 at about four-thirty o•clock that afternoon. Now to come back into perspective,! called him on Friday, I called Mr. Herder on Friday, the 2nd. of February.

That afternoon after I had hung up, in the morning 1 at four-thirty,! received a telephone 107

February 12, 1973 Tape 37 PK - 2 call from Mr. Bill Kelly who referred to the anonymous letter and asked for my co:mmenL Now I might state for the edification of the gentlemen of the press who are here, I had intented to write all of this out. I have what I have said to date,1n form that I will pass to the members of the press. But now I am speaking from notes because the responsihilities of the House and other meetings prevented me from doinr it in the detail. So now the gentlemen of the press, Hr. Speaker, may note that I am speaking from notes and they can take notes accordingly if they so desire.

Anyway four-thirty I had received a call from Mr. William Kelly of the l!Telegram 0 • The conversation which I am paraphrasing went something like this. He said, uBill, did you see the letter in the paper yesterday?'' I said, "yes." He said, 1\1hat have you got to say about it?" I said, "I am not saying anything to you, Bill, I have been talkin? to Steve." "Steve, who'?'' "Steve Herder". We rang off. Immediately thereafter,about ten minutes thereafter I received a call from Mr.

Stephen Herder at the 11 Telegram 11 who was somewhat concerned about the fact that he thought that I might think that he had set his reporter on me as a result of the conversation that morning. I assured him this was not the fact. At that ti.me he again referred to the letter and said and did make words, statement to the effect that the letter was not up to the standards of the 11 Evening Telegram 1 '. I hung up then and received another call a1sain from Pr. Kelly. This is the second call now within about an hour. The conversation went something like this~ Hr. Speaker, and I am repeating it in substance.

"Bill, I just talked to Steve and he said that your conversation was private 11 • I said, 11yes. 11 But he said, "what have you got to say for the public"? I satd, "well, as I have told you, t have already talked to Mr. HerderH. "Well what comment have you got for the public 11 ? I said, nMr~ Kelly, I have already told you that I have spoken to Mr. Herder". Mr. Herder was at liberty to talk to Mr. Kelly,obviously. 108

Fehruary 12, 1973 Tape 37 So then he saidt 0 can I quote you as sayinp, PY. - 3 ?" you have no comment"· Mr. Speaker~ 1 a,~ in public life but I am an individual as well. The press do not ow"tl me and nobody owns me and 1 said, 1 ' you can hlank, hlank". I will not repeat~ it here. Hprint what you blank 1 blank what you want ta" - and hung up the phone 0 • I still presumed that decency would prevail that they would get together with respect to it. Because I had told Mr.

Stephen Herder that morning substantially all of the things that lam talkin~ about now~ But no,what happened/ The result is on Tuesday, February 6, a headline on the front page - 1'farshall Solicitor for the Bank of !4:ontrenl- The "Evening Teleizram" investir,ating a charge levelled in a recent letter to the edit~1r has confirmed that government House Leader, William. Narshall, acts as solicitor for the Bank of "'fontreal, the province's banker. Great relevation, Mro Speaker. Great relevation. Nohody had ever attempted to hide it.

So they pin a filthy, rotten, headline as if 1 had been doing something that was criminal. Then again on Wednesday I was called hy the press, CBC, CJON - p:ave them a report on it. Wednesday morning I was called by Hr~ Garry Callahan of the ,:Telegramn and I issued a rebuttal which appeared in the paper that day and which I might state Hr. Garry Callahan fairly reported. So that was not the end of it, Mr. Speaker, we had to come again.

We had to come hack again and we looked on Thursday and what do we see? ''Liberals plan to debate on Marshall affair. 11 They got it down now ;'the Marshall affair," you will note in the paper. Included in which is Mr. Roherts, as quoted as saying that he will reserve comment on the "Marshall affair 11 • I will get to the honourable Leader of the Opposition in a moment, He promises a detailed statement in a few days, Which I run just waiting for, Mr. Speaker, with bated breath. Then what happens further in this great saga.' On Friday I helieve it was, although I think you will feel, Mr.

Speaker, I think all members will 109

February 12, 1973 Tape 37 PK - 4 realize that at this time one is probably a little bit punch drunk, I received a call from the Secretary of the Law Society of Newfoundland. Because when I had issued my statement, Mr. Speaker, to the press,I had made a statement that the source referred to hy the Telegram!! that was obviously _uapparently" I use the word, a member of the Law Society is unnamed and is obviously motivated hy malice. I said it. I repeated it to Mr. Mercer. Mr. Mercer is a fine fellow. He did not like to get involved in this. But what is the substance of the telephone call? Hr.

Kelly rings him up and asks him whether I am going to be rlisc:iplined hy the Law Society of Newfoundland as a result of these statements? Hence we see another Marshall statement "questionable''says the Secretary of the Law Society. Now, Mr. Speaker~ I am not prepared to accept this at all. The over-all result is this that I am in the private practice of law, when I ran I was in it. T am going to remain in it. I am go:i.nµ: to remain in this House of Assembly despite the "People's Paper 11 • Rut the effect of this is, Mr. Speaker, that it effects my private practice. I do not think, ~r.

Speaker, that the base way that this came about that it is fair. 1 want to make something abundantly clear in this chamber. I have never spoken for any client, I have never taken any thin~ for this ~overnment, I have never acted for any client in relation to the government and all that I intend and insist upon doinp, is retaining the clients that I have,already have and honestly have held after a numher of years of hard work. I regret the involvement of the bank in this.

It is too reputable, The Bank of Montreal is too reputable and too hig to ask me, and they would not ask me, I repeat that, to go to government: looking for favours. They never did it, Mr. Speaker, obviously,while I was a member of the oppositton 110

February 12, 1973 Tape 38 and when I was a member of the opposition, Mr. Speaker, I acted for the Bank of Montreal and I a,~ thankful for a national concern such as the Bank of Montreal that is prepared to have a member of the opposition act for them because there were many national concerns who came into this country within twenty years who to the people on the other side of the House were persona grata. I continued to act for the Bank of Montreal, Mr. Speaker, while I was president of the P.C.

Party, while I was leader of the party on a temporary basis but obviously on an even more permanent basis than the present Leader of the Opposition. while I was a member for St. John's East and the 11 Evening Telegram 11 and the Leader of the Opposition can take full note of these statements. I have no intention, Mr. Speaker, of losing,as I say, any clients as a result of this. I lost enou~h clients, Mr. Speaker, when I was in the opposition and in defending myself rip.ht now, I am going to make a statmcnt that JM - 1 I have never made before.

When I was involved in a certain case. a certain law case in this province before I came in the P,C~ Party at all,after the carrying out of this case I was informed by one of my clients, Mr.

Speaker, a person with whom I had enjoyed a very good relationship up to that particular point,that I could not act for him because I was, to use his phrase, !/Persona non grata to the then government.'' He was obtaining a loan that was bein~ backed then by the government I understand or required some concessions, I do not know what they were because I did not act for them afterwards and he informed me that I was persona non grata and thus could not act for him and he went off then to be an illustrious firm, anotl,er illustrious firm, let us put it that way, and I have not acted for him since. and the hon.

Leader of the Opposition knows I believe to whom I am referrin~. MR. ROBERTS: No, I do not. MR. MARSHALL: If the hon. Leader of the Opposition wants me, the hon. Leader of the Opposition's father was the person at the time. MR. ROBERTS: Well, then, Mr. Speaker, if I may, I have no knowledge of 111

February 12, 1973 Tape 38 JM - 2 :my father's legal affairs at all and my father may have made a statement, this is a statement of privilege I guess, MR. MARSHALL: Is this a point of order? MR. ROBERTS: May I make a statement of privilege, if not, you know the hon. gentleman is lying. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition, now we will have a point of order. I shall invite him to retract that statement. I can recount that we were in the Old Colony Club at that particular time and what I say is exactly true, exactly and positively true and 1 run not, Mr.

Speaker, going to take the cynicism of the Leader of the Opposition when he talks about the Marshall affair and he is going to air these things and _join in the cynicism of the "Evening Telegram.!! MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, if I may reply. My father is not in this province to defend himself. He is in Ottawa on his way for his vacation. I say that the reason my father dropped the hon. gentleman was professional incompetence and let the hon. gentleman withdraw a charge against my father who is not here to defend himself.

If he wants to be so scummy and so slimy and so low as to make a charge against a man not in this House~then I say the hon. ~entleman is lying. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. PECKFORD: (Inaudible). MR. ROBERTS: Ah, shut up Peckford. You are overpaid now. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, - MR. SPEAKER: I realize that the hon. member sometimes get emotional in the heat of debate but I would remind him that he should follow the rules of parliamentary procedure and I trust this will continue. MR. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, I am not talking about the hon. gentleman's father, I am talking about the fact that I was persona non grata. MR. ROBERTS: The hon. ~entleman quoted my father as allegedly saying it himself. Now let him produce the proof or else I say he is lying. 112

February 12, 1973 MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, - MR. SPEAKER: Order please~ Tape 38 MR. MARSHALL: Now, Mr. Speaker, what is the - MR. ROBERTS: Lies. JM - 3 MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, does the hon. the Leader of the Opposition wish to withdraw that remark? MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. the hon. gentleman said that my father made a statement to him as to why my father went to another law firm. My