British Columbia Hansard — 2 November 2021, a.m., Issue 122 (42nd Parliament, 2nd Session)

20211102am-Hansard-n122

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 42nd Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday, November 2, 2021 Morning Sitting Issue No. 122 THE HONOURABLE RAJ CHOUHAN, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Second Session, 42nd Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...........................................................................................................Hon. Anne Kang Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries......................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing .............................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................................Hon. Mitzi Dean Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.....................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Lisa Beare Minister of Education .................................................................................................................................................. Hon. Jennifer Whiteside Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ........................................................................................Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Finance .......................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations................................................................................. Hon.

Nathan Cullen Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Affairs.............................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation....................................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.............................................................................................................. Hon.

Sheila Malcolmson Minister of Municipal Affairs ............................................................................................................................................. Hon. Josie Osborne Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction........................................................................................... Hon. Nicholas Simons Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport .................................................................................................................. Hon.

Melanie Mark Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of State for Infrastructure ................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bowinn Ma LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition...................................................................................................................................................Shirley Bond Leader of the Third Party .......................................................................................................................................................... Sonia Furstenau Deputy Speaker..........................................................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Assistant Deputy Speaker..............................................................................................................................................................Norm Letnick Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services........................................................................................................................... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees.......................................................................................................................................................................

Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst ................................................................................................................................................................... Karan Riarh Sergeant-at-Arms ........................................................................................................................................................................... Ray Robitaille

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ............................................................Abbotsford-Mission Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) .........................................................Nelson-Creston Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Penticton Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...............................................................North Island Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP).................................................. Vancouver–False Creek Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP).........................................................

Surrey-Newton Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ............................................ Abbotsford South Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) .......................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (BC NDP).................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...............................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party).................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP) ................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) .............................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–West End Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ..............................................North Vancouver–Seymour Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ............................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP).................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ..........................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)........................Columbia River–Revelstoke Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (BC NDP) ....................................................Kootenay West Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) .......................................................................... Chilliwack Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ................................................................... Stikine Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)................................................. Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)....................................Abbotsford West Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...............................................

Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) .........................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ................................................ Vancouver-Kingsway Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ........................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)............................................................... Langley East Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP).......................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ..................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) .................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...............................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ..................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ........................................................Richmond-Steveston Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party) .........................................Surrey–White Rock Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) .........................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ......................................... Langford–Juan de Fuca Kahlon, Hon.

Ravi (BC NDP) .............................................................. Delta North Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) .................................................. Burnaby–Deer Lake Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party) ........................West Vancouver–Capilano Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)....................................................................Shuswap Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party) ..............................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...............................................

Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) .................................. Kelowna–Lake Country Lore, Grace (BC NDP)........................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP).....................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)........................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ........................................................................

Langley Merrifield, Renee (BC Liberal Party)......................................... Kelowna-Mission Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) .......................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ................................. Prince George–Mackenzie Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party).................................................. Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Osborne, Hon.

Josie (BC NDP)........................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ................................................................Chilliwack-Kent Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Delta South Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)........................................................ Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) .............................................Surrey-Whalley Rankin, Hon.

Murray, QC (BC NDP) .............................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...................................................................... North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)......................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) .............................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...........................................

Nanaimo–North Cowichan Russell, Roly (BC NDP).................................................... Boundary-Similkameen Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)......................................................Nechako Lakes Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) .................................................Vernon-Monashee Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)..........................................................Vancouver-Hastings Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party) .................................................... Kootenay East Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP).........................

Powell River–Sunshine Coast Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ................................................................. Surrey-Panorama Singh, Aman (BC NDP) .............................................Richmond-Queensborough Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) .......................................................

Kelowna West Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...............................Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ............................. West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)....................................................... Fraser-Nicola Walker, Adam (BC NDP) ....................................................... Parksville-Qualicum Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ....................................... Richmond North Centre Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) .........................................

New Westminster Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)......................Vancouver-Quilchena Y ao, Henry (BC NDP) ..................................................... Richmond South Centre LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission................................................................................. Pam Alexis Abbotsford South...............................................................................Bruce Banman Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen........................................................................ Roly Russell Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds......................................................................Hon. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North .................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ..........................................................................Lorne Doerkson Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ...............................................................................................Dan Coulter Chilliwack-Kent .................................................................................... Kelli Paddon Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...............................................................Fin Donnelly Coquitlam-Maillardville ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................. Sonia Furstenau Delta North................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Delta South ..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Hon. Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola .........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country .....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission ...........................................................................

Renee Merrifield Kelowna West ..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca .............................................................. Hon.

John Horgan Langley .............................................................................................Andrew Mercier Langley East....................................................................................Megan Dykeman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim............................................................ Hon.

Josie Osborne Nanaimo.............................................................................Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ............................................................................. Brittny Anderson New Westminster.............................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside North Coast ........................................................................................... Jennifer Rice North Island................................................................................... Michele Babchuk North Vancouver–Lonsdale......................................................... Hon. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour...................................................................Susie Chant Oak Bay–Gordon Head..................................................Hon.

Murray Rankin, QC Parksville-Qualicum........................................................................... Adam Walker Peace River North ................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam.......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast..............................................Hon. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ..................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough..................................................................Aman Singh Richmond South Centre .......................................................................... Henry Y ao Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................

Kelly Greene Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South .............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena........................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine........................................................................................ Hon.

Nathan Cullen Surrey-Cloverdale .............................................................................. Mike Starchuk Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ..............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ...................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South ................................................................................ Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ................................................................. Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Surrey–White Rock .......................................................................... Trevor Halford Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek...................................................................... Brenda Bailey Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ..............................................................................Niki Sharma Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant..................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey ............................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee .....................................................................

Harwinder Sandhu Victoria–Beacon Hill............................................................................... Grace Lore Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Karin Kirkpatrick West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Tuesday, November 2, 2021 Morning Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members..................................................................................................................................................... 3879 Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 3879 Community forest management by Westbank First Nation B. Stewart Indigenous Disability Awareness Month K. Paddon Caledonia Nordic Ski Club M. Morris Diwali and Bandi Chhor Divas J.

Sims Volunteer garbage collection by Wilber Saunders L. Doerkson Support for persons experiencing domestic violence B. Anderson Oral Questions......................................................................................................................................................................... 3881 Service model change for children with support needs and funding for autism services S. Bond Hon. M. Dean K. Kirkpatrick Affordable rental housing A. Olsen Hon. D. Eby Forest policy changes and socioeconomic analysis of impacts M. de Jong Hon. K.

Conroy Forest policy changes and consultation with First Nations J. Rustad Hon. K. Conroy Forest policy changes and socioeconomic analysis of impacts P . Milobar Hon. K.

Conroy Tabling Documents................................................................................................................................................................. 3887 Office of the Auditor General,Fraud Risk Management Survey Report, 2020-21 Office of the Human Rights Commissioner,Building a Culture of Human Rights Guarantees and indemnities report, fiscal year ended March 31, 2021 Statement of 2020-21 borrowings, schedules A and B Orders of the Day Second Reading of Bills .......................................................................................................................................................... 3887 Bill 27 — Election Amendment Act, 2021 Hon.

D. Eby M. de Jong J. Sims Hon. B. Ma A. Mercier J. Brar Hon. N. Cullen Hon. D. Eby

TUESDAY , NOVEMBER 2, 2021 The House met at 10:03 a.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers and reflections: G. Kyllo. Introductions by Members Hon. M. Dean:I rise today in this House to introduce Danny Charles. They are the recipient of Right to Play’s 2019 Canadian Y outh Hero Award. Danny is here with members of the Scia’new Right to Play program, program officer Jamie-lee Wesley and pro- gram manager Jake Winn. [10:05 a.m.] Danny is a dedicated youth leader who’s passionate about spending time with their community Elders and supporting youth members. Congratulations to Danny.

We are grateful and blessed to have you in our community. Will the House please join me in making them very wel- come today. G. Lore:I am very thrilled today to make my first intro- duction of classes visiting. Joining us for question period today are two classes of grade 5 students from Glenlyon Norfolk junior school in my constituency. T. Wat:It is my great pleasure to welcome the founder and chair of the Bai Gong International Buddhist Society in Richmond, as well as the members here. The founder and current chair is Diana Ko, and the three members are Y anhua Meng, Qing Feng and Suxia Hu.

Established in 2007, Bai Gong is a recognized charitable and religious organization, which promotes Buddhism, equality and care for each other. I’m so proud of B.C. ’s diverse tapestry, which embraces all religions. Here in the gallery are my two constituency assistants, Tony and William. William came a couple of weeks ago to this chamber, and he was so excited to watch us in action in question period that he has come back again. This is Tony’s first time. I hope, Tony, you will be just as excited as your col- league, William, and come back all the time and watch us in action.

Will the members all welcome my guests today. Hon. M. Rankin:I, too, would like to welcome a school group that’s visiting this chamber today, students from the Maria Montessori Academy, located in Oak Bay–Gordon Head, joined by their teacher Mr. Aaron Gillatly. They are 20 students who are in grade 10. Would the House please make them feel welcome. B. Stewart:It gives me a great honour today to welcome two people in the gallery that are here for the honourable ceremony tonight. The first is Chris Foreman. Chris Fore- man joined me just under two years ago as a CA.

He’ d moved from Coquitlam, where he had recently graduated from Royal Roads University. Who would have known, when he joined me in March 2020, that he would have been faced with COVID, whether it was orders, re-openings or passports that the govern- ment had to go through. Needless to say, we’ve recently had the wildfire situation in Kelowna. Chris has been on the front lines with that. But more importantly, Chris is a baseball fan and a successful Little Leaguer, who played in Coquitlam and is looking forward to the World Series.

Secondly, my granddaughter, the oldest of five grand- children in our family, Ruby Analena Dobbener, is here joining us. She’s in grade 6 from Constable Neil Bruce. I first got elected in 2009. Ruby was born on November 11, 2009. Ruby loves to cycle as well as ski. Welcome to both of them here in the gallery today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) COMMUNITY FOREST MANAGEMENT BY WESTBANK FIRST NATION B. Stewart:Since 2004, Westbank First Nation has thoughtfully and effectively managed their community forest.

What started as a five-year arrangement under the community forest pilot agreement has grown to a 25-year renewable community forest agreement licence. Their work on the land is a balance of forestry manage- ment and harvesting, along with maintaining the forest for traditional uses, including hunting, trapping, food gather- ing and spiritual use. Split into two parcels, they manage more than 46,000 hectares of forest in the Kelowna area and have set a great example of what community forests can look like.

But it’s not just me that thinks this. [10:10 a.m.] In fact, this year Westbank First Nation was awarded the Robin Hood Memorial Award, which recognizes excel- lence in community forests around the province, of the 50 that are in existence. Specifically, this is meant to hon- our community forests that have been exemplary in their progressive forestry practices, environmental stewardship, community benefits and employment.

However, this year Westbank First Nation was especially recognized for its leadership in wildfire risk reduction, which included taking the lead on developing and plan- ning a community forest wildfire risk management strat- egy, part of which comprised a ten-kilometre buffer zone. 3879

One of two community forests selected to win this award this year, out of more than 50 community forests in B.C., they also received a $10,000 grant to continue their work and further invest in their forests. It’s a huge honour for Dave Gill, the Westbank First Nation community forest manager; Chief Chris Derickson and his council; and for everyone involved in the manage- ment of the forest. They’re incredibly proud and grateful for this recognition. I hope everyone in this House will join me in recogniz- ing the work of Westbank First Nation on this project and congratulating them on a well-deserved honour.

INDIGENOUS DISABILITY AW ARENESS MONTH K. Paddon:Did you know the Academy Award–win- ning song “Up Where We Belong, ” made famous by Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warnes, was actually co-written by Cree superstar Buffy Sainte-Marie? I mention this not only because she is still singing and working to improve the lives of Indigenous people, at the majestic age of 80, but she recently made a short video to highlight Indigenous Disability Awareness Month and the work of the British Columbia Aboriginal Network on Dis- ability Society, known as BCANDS.

She’s a hard act to follow, but I rise today to proclaim November as Indigenous Disability Awareness Month in B.C. This awareness month was created by BCANDS in 2015 and is now recognized by hundreds of Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities and organizations across Canada, including the B.C. Assembly of First Nations, the First Nations Summit, the Union of B.C. Indi- an Chiefs and Métis Nation British Columbia.

With what is believed to be the only Indigenous-specific disability awareness observance in the world, B.C. is leading the way in recognizing, raising awareness and celebrating the con- tributions of Indigenous people with disabilities. In light of the tragic recoveries at the Kamloops resid- ential school and elsewhere, it’s also important to acknow- ledge the role intergenerational trauma and poverty play in disability and how this contributes to higher rates of disab- ility among Indigenous peoples.

We must continue on the path of reconciliation this month and every month as we take action to ensure equity rights, access and opportunit- ies for Indigenous peoples living with disabilities. I would like to thank BCANDS for their ongoing lead- ership and support in this area. Recently BCANDS shared their expertise with government as we created the Access- ible British Columbia Act, and we look forward to con- tinuing to learn from them. I won’t sing, but I’ d like to leave you with a few lines from the song “Up Where We Belong. ” The road is long There are mountains in our way But we climb a step every day.

Let’s climb together and continue to remove barriers that prevent Indigenous peoples with disabilities from being included fully in our communities. CALEDONIA NORDIC SKI CLUB M. Morris:I’ve spoken loud and proud before about our world-class Nordic ski facility in Prince George, the Cale- donia Nordic Ski Club. Over the years, the club’s mem- bership has included former Olympians such as Megan, “Tandy, ” who was a member of the 2014 and 2018 Canada Olympic team; Sarah Beaudry, a member of the 2018 Canada Olympic team; as well as world championship competitors like Emily Dickson.

Over the past few years, the ski club has upgraded trails and installed snow-making equipment to ensure that world-class conditions exist no matter what the weather. Caledonia Nordic have 55 kilometres of groomed trail, including several kilometres that have lighting, extending ski opportunities into the evening hours. One of my favourite ski events in Nordic skiing is the biathlon, endurance skiing over challenging trails with intervals of precision shooting at small, dollar-sized tar- gets.

The Caledonia Nordic Ski Club has hosted world cham- pionship events in the past and had the privilege of hosting the Nordic events for the Canada Winter Games in 2015. It’s about to host another. The Canadian National Biathlon Championships will be held in Prince George from March 13 to 17, 2022. This event will attract 250 of Canada’s best biathlon athletes, along with their coaches, support teams and families. Prince George will once again deliver our world-class hospitality, as we have in past events.

Volun- teers were ready to sign up as soon as the event was an- nounced at the end of September. [10:15 a.m.] Biathlon Canada has recognized the Caledonia Nordic facility as one of the best in Canada. I wish to thank them for choosing this Prince George jewel for this event. I also want to thank the generous community donors who have contributed so much to making our facility what it is today and the club members and volunteers who generously give their time and energy in making this club so successful. DIW ALI AND BANDI CHHOR DIV AS J.

Sims: Diwali, the festival of lights, is being celebrated this week in India and around the world. Diwali celebrates the victory of light over darkness, good over evil, know- ledge over ignorance and hope over despair. Unlike last year, friends and families will be gathering for this very special occasion. Homes are decorated with diyas and lights, new clothes, fireworks. This is a festival 3880 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 2, 2021

filled with joy, family, friends. They gather to share great food and exchange gifts. Diwali is an opportunity for all of us to reflect on the past year, to look forward and to plan for the future with renewed optimism. As we reflect on this past year, filled with uncertainty and challenges at every turn, we need to consider what we have learned. We have missed out on so much and have been impatient with the ever-changing new normal. Diwali is a time to reflect on what life in a pandemic has shown us. This past year has shown us the importance of being kind, patient and grateful.

It has reminded us of the significance of family, of friends and of community and has taught us to appreciate the smaller things and to look out for each other. Diwali celebrates the light within each of us. As we look forward, we need to remember to focus on the good within each of us and to open our hearts and our minds towards a better understanding of each other. We need to raise each other up. As we plan for the future, let us listen more, judge less and learn from each other.

Alongside Diwali, we celebrate Bandi Chhor Divas, a Sikh holiday when Guru Hargobind Singh led 52 prisoners out of captivity and returned to Amritsar. I wish those celebrating in Surrey-Panorama, British Columbia and around the globe a very happy Diwali, happy Deepavali and happy Bandi Chhor Divas.Sab nu lakh vadhaiyan. VOLUNTEER GARBAGE COLLECTION BY WILBER SAUNDERS L. Doerkson:Today I have the privilege of speaking about the incredible Wilber Saunders. It is a rare occasion to find someone who will give the kind of time to enhance the community that Wilber contributes.

He’s been acknowledged as a Rotary Daybreak honorary parade marshal and has been recognized as a community hero. His almost daily commitment to making our com- munity a better place is incredible, and it does not go unnoticed. Wilber has for years, in his retirement, picked up gar- bage throughout our community. Very often he will share pictures of his accomplishments on Facebook, highlight- ing his thousands of steps taken during the course of his day, along with scenic pictures and beautiful photos of loc- al wildlife in our parks and, of course, pictures of the bags upon bags of trash that he has collected.

He will often show images of the types of trash he has had to collect and pick up. He’ll show images of recyc- lables, fast-food wrappers and cups. Of course, the most recent addition to his pickings is face masks. Unfortunately, I have rarely seen Wilber post that he has picked up less than a few big bags of garbage in a day. He, sadly, never is short of work, but he does it will- ingly. He doesn’t just pick up garbage once in a while but, rather, multiple days per week. Fortunately for all of us in the Cariboo-Chilcotin, we have Wilber as a com- munity member. Wilber asks for nothing in return.

Well, that’s not true. He asks that you don’t litter. Other than that, he does this incredible volunteer work out of the goodness of his heart and commitment to improving our community and for no other reason. From all of us in the Cariboo-Chilcotin and, of course, from all of us at the B.C. Legislature, thank you very much, Wilber Saunders. SUPPORT FOR PERSONS EXPERIENCING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE B. Anderson:Today I’m going to read you a love letter. Before anyone gets too excited, this is not a romantic letter, but it is about love. “Dear…. “Y ou know who you are. I love you.

Y ou’re incredibly strong, kind, loving, smart and resilient. “Y ou deserve to thrive. Y ou deserve to live up to all of the in- credible potential that you have. Y ou deserve to be happy and safe. [10:20 a.m.] “What you have gone through has been tremendously difficult. The fact that you get up every day and function in society is a test- ament to your perseverance. What I want you to know is that you are not alone, and I mean this in two ways. “Y ou are not alone as you have a community and family that love you.

Y ou are also not alone in the fact that many people — way, way, way too many people — have also suffered physical, emotion- al and psychological abuse from their partner. “These are strong, powerful, smart, kind people, just like you. Y ou are not alone, and you do not deserve this. No one does. It can happen to anyone, but disproportionately women, Indigenous, ra- cialized, transgendered and gender-diverse people are targeted. “This does not define you. Y ou determine what defines you. This is not on you.

This is on them — the people who commit violence against their partners. “Y our home should be a safe space. Abuse is not love. Love is a verb, and it’s about actions. “ As I end this love letter, I just want to restate that you are loved. Y ou are worthy. Y ou deserve better. We are here for you, and we want better for you. “Love, Brittny. ” If you find yourself in an unsafe situation, please reach out. Y our MLA office is a safe space to start. We can point you to confidential services in your community that can help protect you.

Oral Questions SERVICE MODEL CHANGE FOR CHILDREN WITH SUPPORT NEEDS AND FUNDING FOR AUTISM SERVICES S. Bond: Jen Biddlecombe is the parent of an autistic child who watched the Minister of Children and Family Development in question period yesterday. She says: “The minister did not respond to any of the questions. No Tuesday, November 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 3881

straight answers on how anything will work. My concerns were not addressed. In fact, I was angry at her response. ” Can the minister tell Jen and thousands of other parents across the entire province why she has decided to claw back essential funds for parents who want to support their autistic children? Hon. M. Dean: Thank you to the member for their question. I do understand that there are many concerns out there in the community, and I really want to hear from families.

We now have the opportunity to be listening to families and listening to stakeholders, not only families with chil- dren with autism but also all those other families that have been shut out of a system for far too long. What I can reassure families is that there will be services available.

Rather than having to wait two years for a dia- gnosis and then have to scramble and build a patchwork of services for their child, parents in the future will be able to bring their child into a hub, connect with a professional and work with the multidisciplinary team and build a sys- tem of services around their child’s needs. Mr. Speaker:Leader of the Official Opposition, supple- mental. S. Bond:Well, what the minister conveniently leaves out of her answer is the fact that this is nothing more than a claw back.

There are parents in British Columbia who have worked tirelessly to ensure that their children have the ser- vices that they need today and in the future. It is a claw back of existing funding. The minister stood in the House yesterday and repeat- edly said that it’s important to listen to parents. Well, I can assure you that we know this minister’s in-box is overflow- ing with feedback from parents who are upset, who are anxious and, in fact, as we heard earlier, who are angry. She’s received more feedback in the last week than in all the time that she was discussing this decision. Where?

Behind closed doors. [10:25 a.m.] Let’s have a listen to what else Jen had to say. “I am all for families getting the care they need, but it shouldn’t come at the cost to others. The minister did not answer wheth- er support systems that are already in place will be able to continue. In fact, families don’t want what they have in place currently to end. ” Will the minister reverse her decision to claw back essential funding from parents all across British Columbia who simply want to continue to provide for the care of their autistic children? Hon. M.

Dean:Nothing immediately is happening in terms of autism funding. I can reassure members of this House that our ministry has been making investments every single year in my ministry, including in respite, a budget lift of $13 million this year, and a $10 mil- lion investment, the first time in 20 years, in really vital equipment. I will be listening to families, and I will not be listening to the other side of the House… Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Hon. M. Dean: …who brought in $4 billion in cuts and cut $15 million from children and youth with sup- port needs. K.

Kirkpatrick:Parents and advocates that listened to the minister yesterday in question period were mystified by her suggestion that the right time to consult is after a decision and announcement have already been made. I’m quoting AutismBC. I think that’s very important for you all to understand. “We, AutismBC, deny that MCFD had consulted us in their decision to terminate autism funding. We met with the minister for the first time for 30 minutes on October 15 to highlight our concerns and the lack of consultation from the 6,000-plus members of the autism community.

They disregarded our requests. ” That was AutismBC. Can the minister tell us why she would claw back indi- vidual autism funding instead of increasing overall sup- port? Hon. M. Dean:We have been increasing support. Chil- dren and youth are very important to us. Our budget has increased, year on year, since 2017. The other side, when they were in power in 2001, cut $34 million from child and youth mental health supports… Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Minister, just…. Minister, hold it. Hon. M. Dean:…and $185 million in child protection. Mr. Speaker:Member for West Vancouver–Capilano, supplemental. K.

Kirkpatrick:The minister may want to look at some of the Twitter comments about the great work that the B.C. Liberal Party did in their time, supporting increases in the autism community. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Let’s listen to the question, please. Order. K. Kirkpatrick:This is the same minister who rejected 3882 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 2, 2021

the recommendations of the Representative for Children and Y outh to extend pandemic funding that was cut last September. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. K. Kirkpatrick:So it’s a little hard for parents to take the minister at her word. The minister is wrapping herself in the idea of improved services, while doing the exact opposite and clawing back support. Ashleigh Gordon has this to say: “This is doing our chil- dren and families an injustice.

Clearly the decision was made by people who have no idea what it’s like to live with autism and how difficult it’s going to make it for families who struggle to even get out of the house. ” Will the minister stop this injustice and stop clawing back funding from Ashleigh’s family? Hon. M. Dean:I can reassure the member and families in British Columbia that services will continue to be pro- vided to families where their children have been diag- nosed with autism.

In addition to that, the other families that I hear from — with children with brain injury, with fetal alcohol spec- trum disorder, with other developmental delays — will also get services. They have not been receiving services until now. We’re going to build a public system so that there’s a safety net of supports for all children and youth with sup- port needs, including children with autism. [10:30 a.m.] AFFORDABLE RENTAL HOUSING A. Olsen:B.C. has the highest rent in the country. In fact, a report published in October found that B.C. had the highest quarter-over-quarter change in average rent.

Rent increased 7.2 percent over the last quarter. The results are in the listings. In Vancouver, in October, the average price of a one-bedroom apartment was $2,155 per month. These numbers impact people. People are spending so much on rent that they’re unable to save up or to pay off student debt. They can’t find housing near work or their families. The constant worry is having negative health effects. Researchers call this housing-affordability stress, and it’s exacerbating mental health challenges. All of this is because rent is out of control.

To the Attorney General and Minister of Housing, does the minister realize just how difficult it is for millions of British Columbians to pay rent? Hon. D. Eby:Thank you to the member for the question and for his spotlight on housing. I think housing is one of the most important issues in the province, and the short- age of rental housing is one of the most profound chal- lenges we face. We are making some traction on getting new rental housing built. We have an issue where our population is increasing far more dramatically than our rental housing supply is. In that situation, rents are going up.

There’s huge pressure placed on tenants that are in lower-rent housing, as landlords want to evict them and bring in folks that can pay more. What we need to do is build housing, and rental housing in particular, at a very large scale. We have $2 billion going into the HousingHub to build rental housing. This is just the start, as we work with municipalities to streamline approvals. We’ve got 11,068 new rental housing units registered already in 2021. When you look at the previous government, not even close.

We have more purpose-built rental units registered for construction by June 2021 than the old government ever registered in an entire year. Mr. Speaker: Member for Saanich North and the Islands, supplemental. A. Olsen: The minister is correct. There have been a number of actions that have been taken over the last three years. The problem is that over that time…. The affordable rentals are out of reach — they don’t exist — because the rental market is out of control. The programs the minister referenced are all programs that are going to fix a problem in the future. The problem exists now for British Columbians.

It’s all over social media — people talking about their stories and the lack of afford- ability in their housing. The extreme challenges that our cities and towns are facing are challenges that are being faced now. These efforts that the government has outlined have not gone far enough. People need support now. What is the minister doing now to make rental housing more affordable? Hon. D. Eby:One of the great challenges of the housing problem that we were left with is that there’s a real lag between government programs starting and the delivery of that housing. The member is absolutely right.

So that’s why we put a number of…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Hon. D. Eby:I’ve already outlined how much better we are doing on rental housing starts than the previous gov- ernment. I think they should be a bit cautious, the opposi- tion, about jeering. With respect to what we’re doing right now…. Interjections. Tuesday, November 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 3883

Mr. Speaker:Let’s listen to the answer, please. Attorney General. Interjection. Mr. Speaker:Y eah, that’s fine, Member. That’s okay. Carry on. Hon. D. Eby:I hear the opposition. So far this year over 11,000 purpose-built rental homes registered in B.C. That’s five times the yearly average when the opposition was in power, just to give a reality check. That would be inflation plus 2 percent rent increases of the old government. We put a ban on rent increases during COVID. We have limited rent increases to inflation only.

We have increased the availability of the SAFER subsidy for seniors so they’re able to stay in their housing. We’ve increased money avail- able for seniors to retrofit housing so they can stay in their housing longer. We have increased resources to the res- idential tenancy branch, with the enforcement branch, by the way, that the previous government put in but never funded to support tenants and landlords. [10:35 a.m.] We’ve got a lot more work to do. The pressure is con- tinuing, and we will continue that work. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members.

FOREST POLICY CHANGES AND SOCIOECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF IMPACTS M. de Jong:My question is for the Minister of Forests. I understand the minister and the government are poised to make an announcement that will have profoundly negative consequences for people who derive a living from working in B.C. ’s forests. As the details emerge, experts and stake- holders are already sounding the alarm bells.

The imposition of these land use decisions, we are told, will result in the closure of upwards of 12 mills right across British Columbia, an overall reduction in the AAC of be- tween 15 and 20 percent and the loss of somewhere between 12,000 and 15,000 jobs.

My question to the minister is: has the government completed a detailed socioeconomic study on the impact these land use decisions are going to have for British Col- umbia’s forest-dependent communities and forest- dependent families, and will she release it now so people will know how many mills are going to close and how many thousands of British Columbians are going to lose their jobs? Hon. K. Conroy:I want to thank the member for the question and thank him for his interest in forestry now, something that they didn’t have when they were in…. We have a new vision for forests in this province.

One where our oldest and ancient forests are protected. One where Indigenous peoples are full partners in sustainable management of the forests. One where workers and com- munities benefit from a sustainable, innovative forestry that will have jobs for generations to come. We are online to make sure that we are meeting the commitments of the recommendations of the old growth strategic review. Of course we are doing economic analysis, but for now, we were going to be announcing our process for deferrals.

We also will be announcing how we are going to move forward in working in collaboration and cooperation with Indigenous nations, because that was the number one recommendation from the strategic review. I think it would be highly inappropriate to put people at risk, to say that we’re going to defer and not have socio- economic analysis done but also not have the supports in place for communities, for workers, to make sure…. Something that the previous government never did when over 30,000 people lost their jobs in this forest industry in this province. Mr. Speaker:Member for Abbotsford West, supple- mental.

M. de Jong:Well, we’ll come to the issue of First Nations involvement and their response here just in a few mom- ents, because it is emblematic of the response the minister is getting from virtually every quarter on this. Look, she apparently is not going to release a socioeco- nomic report, and the reason she’s not going to is because her own ministry has confirmed they haven’t done one. They haven’t completed one. The minister is about to, and I think a moment ago just did, confirm that she and the government are about to defer and suspend existing cutting permits without com- pensation.

They are apparently going to cancel the very…. Interjections. [10:40 a.m.] M. de Jong: B.C. forest-dependent families won’t be smiling at the end of the day. I can guarantee you that, Mr. Speaker. They are poised to cancel the very B.C. Timber Sales licences the value-added sector rely on for their survival. And they are embarking upon all of this in the absence of a detailed socioeconomic report that will confirm not just where those mills are going to close but the impact that is going to be felt by thousands of forest-dependent families.

Will the minister confirm that the reason she’s not releasing a detailed socioeconomic report is because she doesn’t have one? 3884 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 2, 2021

Hon. K. Conroy:Again, I’m really happy to have this discussion with this member. I’ll be making further announcements this afternoon, and I will be more than happy to show the opposite side of the House how it is we support workers in this province, how it is we support communities in this province but also how it is we actually have a vision for a forest industry that not only is sustainable but is going to be here for genera- tions to come. We are supportive of forests that also are not only here for harvesting.

They are here for clean water and clean air and to ensure that they’re providing all of the biodiversity they need to provide. We have a vision for forests in this province. We are going to be sharing it, and I’ d be happy to discuss it with the member opposite. Mr. Speaker:Member for Abbotsford West, second supplemental. M. de Jong: Y ou know what part of that strategy in- volves, which the minister seems so proud to tout, at this point, in the House? It’s to bridge people to retirement. Bridging people to retirement is hardly a strategy for long- term economic stability.

Is there a worse time in the history of this province to layer on uncertainty for families and British Columbians? We’ve come through this incredibly difficult time, and the minister and the government choose this moment to make land use decisions that we know are going to put thou- sands upon thousands of people out of work. I’ll ask one more time. Will the minister release the detailed socioeconomic report? If she won’t, will she con- firm that she’s not prepared to because one simply hasn’t been done? Hon. K.

Conroy: I look forward to releasing all the information this afternoon, and I’ll be only too happy to discuss it with the members opposite. FOREST POLICY CHANGES AND CONSULTATION WITH FIRST NATIONS J. Rustad:Y ou know, what I find interesting is that we just heard earlier today, on autism funding, how the gov- ernment says one thing about consultation yet does anoth- er. We just heard now from the Minister of Forests how Indigenous people are full partners.

I want to actually quote the Premier from back in June when the Premier said, around forest management, that the first step must be respecting Indigenous land manage- ment rights in their territory. Well, the B.C. First Nations council has already issued a press release regarding the minister’s announcement coming this afternoon, saying the NDP has done just the opposite. NDP: no delivered promises.

Chief Bill Williams put it simply: “The honour of the Crown cannot be met through fundamentally flawed con- sultation. ” To the minister, why have First Nations been left out of the decisions that will impact them directly? Hon. K. Conroy:I thank the member for the question. He’s right. We are very passionate about the collabor- ation, government-to-government discussions, with Indi- genous nations and also on ensuring that it is with the rights and titleholders. I respect and really appreciate the work done by the First Nations Forestry Council.

The work that we are doing and are continuing to do has been with the rights and titlehold- ers, and we will continue to do that. [10:45 a.m.] Mr. Speaker: Member for Nechako Lakes, supple- mental. J. Rustad:I find that comment quite interesting.

I want to quote Klay Tindall, the general manager of for- est operations for theLíl̓ wat Nation, who says any sug- gestion that the province has involved First Nations in forest decisions is absurd. “TheLíl̓ wat First Nation just spent several million dollars to purchase a forest licence in their territory so they could have a bigger say in decisions regarding forest management in their territory, and now the government comes along and is trying to tell the nation what they can and cannot do. ” That’s a quote directly from the press release from the First Nations Forestry Council.

First Nations have re- peatedly offered to work collaboratively with this govern- ment. This government has stood up and touted working with First Nations. But the NDP , according to the First Nations Forestry Council, has “chosen to do their own thing. ” Can the minister explain why she has chosen to do her own thing instead of working with First Nations? Hon. K. Conroy: I will reiterate: our government is committed to government-to-government discussions with Indigenous nations’ rights and titleholders. We are doing that, and we will continue to do that.

FOREST POLICY CHANGES AND SOCIOECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF IMPACTS P . Milobar:Well, none of the minister’s answers actually stand up today to any scrutiny whatsoever. We’ve heard about reports from industry and concerns from industry of what will happen, on the lack of socio- economic reviews and planning by this government on what their decisions will actually mean to those workers in those communities. We’ve heard about a lack of consulta- tion. The First Nations themselves are saying this. This is Tuesday, November 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 3885

not us inventing quotes. This is from a press release that gets released, right out before the minister’s announce- ment, from the First Nations Forestry Council. Here’s a fax from one of the industry reports. That’s a current and recent report. Four of the mills and a third of the shake and shingle industry will close on the coast. I know the members from Surrey on the other side seemed to think that this was a laughing matter. Shortly, they might want to talk to their shake and shingle mills in Surrey about this. Five mills and two veneer plants in the Interior will close.

The pulp and paper mills will close and be on severe curtailment throughout the province. This is going to lead to at least 12 mills closing across B.C. Again, where are the minister’s analyses and plans to help communities and the impacted workers from the decisions that this government is embarking on? Hon. K.

Conroy:I thank the member, but I think it’s highly inappropriate to speculate on deferrals that haven’t been made yet, to speculate on mills that are going to be closed if we haven’t even had those government-to-gov- ernment discussions concluded with Indigenous nations on whose traditional territory those mills are. We have been doing the work. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Hon. K. Conroy: Industry knows, workers know, communities know and Indigenous nations certainly know that we have been doing the work.

After we re- ceived the report from the old growth strategic review, we have brought together a technical advisory panel looking at the different areas of the province, looking at those rare, iconic, ancient old-growth trees that are at risk of irreversible loss. We’re looking at how we’re going to manage our forest industry so that it’s managed in a sustainable way that is here for generations to come. We will continue to do that. That’s what’s right for the province, that’s what’s right for workers and for communities, and that’s what’s right for our forests. Mr. Speaker:Opposition House Leader, supplemental.

P . Milobar:These are very serious concerns from in- dustry, from Indigenous leadership and Indigenous com- munities, and from the businesses that are impacted by the work that they do in the forest industry. The minister, to date and so far today, has not been able to provide any assurance whatsoever, or actual verification, that they have done proper socioeconomic modelling on what will hap- pen with decisions that will be made and announced this afternoon. There are over 10,000 businesses that work in forestry.

This includes 30,000 indirect jobs like equipment sales, machinery repair and environmental consulting. [10:50 a.m.] There are also extra jobs like in diners, cafes and gro- cery stores that rely on forestry workers to shop there. All of that needs to be looked at, but it hasn’t been by this government. This minister refuses to acknowledge that they avoided that. Again, why on earth won’t the NDP share a study on what the impacts of today’s announcement will be, or have they not done a study at all? Hon. K. Conroy:Again, the member is fearmongering. He’s speculating on an announcement that hasn’t…. Interjections.

Mr. Speaker:Members, let’s listen to the answer, please. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Order. Members, let’s listen to the answer. The minister will continue. Hon. K. Conroy:I’m from a forest industry. I under- stand the forest industry. I understand the repercussions of what happens in forest industries when there are down- turns, when mills are closed. I understand what happens because I lived through it. I lived through 30,000 people in this province losing jobs. I lived through 30,000 people losing jobs without any supports from the government that sat here, that are now the opposition across the way.

Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Members, the question has already been asked, and now is the time for the answer, please. Hon. K. Conroy: Unlike members opposite, we are ensuring that there are going to be supports in place. We are ensuring that if there are going to be any repercussions, there will be supports in place. I will be announcing those this afternoon.

I will make sure that the members opposite get a full briefing on what we’re announcing, a full briefing on the supports we are announcing, a full briefing on how we are moving forward with a vision for forestry in this province, a vision that none of them ever came forward with. Our vision includes that we protect the most ancient, the most rare old growth in this province. Our vision is about Indigenous people who have a full voice in the man- agement of the forest on their traditional territories.

Our vision is about securing work for workers, for communit- 3886 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 2, 2021

ies, that will benefit from a secure, sustainable forest in- dustry that will be here for generations to come. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents Mr. Speaker:Hon. Members, I have the honour of tab- ling the Auditor General’s reportFraud Risk Management Survey Report, 2020-21, and the British Columbia Human Rights Commissioner’s reportBuilding a Culture of Human Rights. Hon. S. Robinson: I have two reports to table. I res- pectfully present the approved guarantees and indem- nities report for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2021, in accordance with the Financial Administration Act, sec- tion 72(8).

Pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, I am pleased to present reports for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2021, on all amounts borrowed by government and all amounts loaned to government bodies. These reports provide an overview of the province’s borrowing activity in fiscal ’20-21. Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:I call second reading of Bill 27. [10:55 a.m.] [N. Letnick in the chair.] Second Reading of Bills BILL 27 — ELECTION AMENDMENT ACT, 2021 Hon. D. Eby:I move that the bill be now read a second time.

The bill implements the recommendations from the report of the all-party Special Committee to Review Pro- visions of the Election Act on annual allowances paid to political parties. The bill makes annual allowances per- manent and establishes how they are to be calculated. For 2022 and 2023, eligible political parties will receive $1.75 per vote received in the most recent general election. In 2024 and each following year, the per-vote amount will be adjusted by the change in CPI for the previous year.

The amendments also move the payment of dates of annual allowances to non-statutory holidays on the recommendation of Elections B.C. Annual allowances were introduced in 2017 when corporate and union dona- tions were also banned and individual contribution limits reduced. To be eligible for annual allowances, a party must have received at least 2 percent of the total valid votes cast in all electoral districts in the most recent general election or 5 percent of the total valid votes in districts where the party had candidates.

Making the annual allowance permanent aligns B.C. with other jurisdictions in Canada, which have also provided annual allowances after making similar changes to campaign financing rules. I thank all members of the all-party committee for their work on this issue. M. de Jong: On second reading of Bill 27, first of all, I should acknowledge, as the Attorney General has just pointed out, that the bill before us is reflective of the recommendations presented by the all-party special com- mittee and, to that extent, I think is faithful to those recommendations. It is a short bill.

I can advise the Attorney General that at committee stage, there are some technical matters that we may wish to explore briefly as it relates to the calculation methodology and, perhaps, also the government’s think- ing to eliminate the review mechanism that was incorpor- ated into the first act. I think everyone is aware, and I think the Attorney Gen- eral would acknowledge undertakings made at the time of introduction, that this would not become a permanent feature of the electoral financing landscape in B.C. This act, following in the footsteps of the all-party committee recommendation, chooses to do that.

I suppose the question that flows is: was it necessary, though, to eliminate an automatic mechanism by which the regime could be reviewed either every three years or every five years? That feature disappears, along with the amendments in this act, from the act. Those are matters that we can explore at the committee stage of discussion for the bill. In keeping, again, with the recommendations, the government should anticipate sup- port from the opposition at second reading to move the bill forward to committee. Deputy Speaker:Seeing no further speakers….

Before Surrey-Panorama, Members, recall that if you’re crossing to the other side, you’re supposed to pay respect to the Chair. J. Sims: It’s my pleasure to rise today and speak in sup- port of this legislation. What’s significant is that this legis- lation is coming forward as a result of collaborative work being done by all parties in the House. There was absolute consensus to bring forward this legislation on the finan- cing of elections.

I think this is a significant legislation because it keeps, along with other measures that our government has taken, big money out of the electoral process. [11:00 a.m.] The other area where it really assists is not everyone who wants to run in an election has the financial where- abouts or the financial support from their specific com- munity to run campaigns. When you have money that is Tuesday, November 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 3887

provided, democracy is able to proceed in a much more inclusive way. We’re not unique in this piece of legislation. Other pro- vinces have taken these steps to make sure that there is a per-vote subsidy that is provided to all parties who qualify. Once again, in order to make sure that everyone can participate in our democratic structures, it behooves this House to make sure that we make it possible, that we enable that and that we reduce the barriers that stand in the way.

Also, by providing these supports, along with the limits on how much can be donated, and making sure that busi- nesses and unions cannot make direct contributions, we’ve made sure that there is more of a level playing field for people who do want to run in elections. We’ve made sure that the pressure that comes with people being able to donate large sums of money, as was, in the past…. There was a time we were known as the wild, wild west when it came to election financing.

I’m pleased that this legislation has come forward to help to support getting that money out of the electoral pro- cess but also to ensure that our democracy remains healthy and that people are able to participate. That participation is very, very important. The size of your income or your savings or your house should not determine who can run to be an MLA in Brit- ish Columbia. Our democracy needs representation in this House from the full diversity — economic diversity, socio- economic diversity — to make sure that the voices of the people are really heard in the people’s House.

Once again, I am delighted that this work was done. I do want to thank the committee members who worked on this, from both sides of the House, to make sure…. I was kept on this. One of the things that’s very, very clear for me in this is…. We wanted to make sure — the committee did, and their recommendation was put into legislation — that we did not fall behind with inflation. Of course, these sums of moneys will be adjusted with the cost of inflation. That will make sure that the real moneys that are being allocated are kept in demand.

I know that there are provinces — like Ontario, Alberta, Quebec and others — that already have annual allowances. They’ve made similar changes to campaign financing rules. The sum of moneys…. I know the public was listening and will want to know. The amendments will ensure that in 2023 those parties that are eligible will receive $1.75 per vote received in the most recent general election. That is going down from $2.50, when the allowance was first introduced. This is a very fiscally responsible step being taken. It is, as I said previously, one that….

All political parties and everybody who participated are in full agreement. Often the question is asked: “Well, how does this com- pare to other provinces?” Y ou know what? We all love comparisons. The allowances in other provinces range anywhere from $1.60 per vote to $2.54. So I think that the sums being suggested here are very prudent and, along with that, as I said, the cost of inflation will lead to adjustments. [11:05 a.m.] As I said earlier, this system of an allowance was brought in, but it was temporary. This makes it permanent, on an ongoing basis, and it ensures that we have a very healthy….

We have a democracy that is more inclusive, that is more inviting and that removes some of the barriers that people might face. So I support this legislation. Hon. B. Ma:It is my great honour to be able to rise in support of Bill 27, the Election Amendment Act, today. For those who are watching — I know there are many people who watch the B.C. Legislature live from the com- fort of their own homes — Bill 27 was created following the unanimous recommendation of the all-party Special Committee to Review Provisions of the Election Act.

The all-party special committee means that it is committee that consists of people from all the different political parties represented in the House, including the B.C. NDP , the B.C. Liberals and the B.C. Greens as well. In particular, Bill 27 is

an act to introduce a perma- nent per-vote allowance to political parties. Now, for those who are unfamiliar with how the per-vote allow- ance came to be, it was originally introduced in 2017 by our government when government moved to take big money out of politics. Big money meaning corporate and union donations as well as large amounts of dona- tions, sometimes tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars from people who potentially didn’t even reside in British Columbia. Now, I wholeheartedly support keeping big money out of politics.

I think that that move has been one of the most important changes to the way that our system of demo- cracy functions here in British Columbia in the last many, many years. That was done back in 2017, and I want to make sure that it stays that way. I feel that prior to the banning of big money in our politics, the presence of big money was a rot on our democracy. It degraded public trust in its politicians and government. That’s saying something, because, let’s face it, politicians are not exactly seen by members of the public as the most trusted professions around the world.

So having a system in place that further degrades that trust is really, really problematic from the perspective of keeping faith in our democratic systems. It caused cit- izens to question who their governments really worked for, when their campaigns are potentially bought and paid for by special interests. When I ran in my first paid election campaign…. I say paid as in it involved a lot of money, because I’ve run in student politics before and those campaigns generally didn’t involve very much money at all.

My first major elec- tion campaign involving a lot of donations and a lot of spending was for the 2017 election. When I learned about 3888 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 2, 2021

how much money it would take to successfully run an election campaign, how much resources I would need to acquire and raise, I did as most candidates did, and I set to work fundraising. I started off seeking donations from family and friends, as one does, but before long, it became very apparent that I could not raise the staggering amounts of money required for a successful election campaign if I did not pursue even larger amounts of money from organizations and wealthi- er donors. The pressure to seek out and accept these large dona- tions and these large amounts was tremendous.

Even when you’re running for the right reasons — and I would say, in particular, if you’re running for the right reasons — you recognize that the stakes around winning and losing are so tremendous because it has nothing to do with the success of yourself. It has everything to do with the success of your community, the well-being of the families around you and the prosperity or the potential suffering of people across the province. The pressure to fundraise from those groups who could cut cheques larger than a couple of hundred dollars here or there was enormous.

But with all of it came the ever- present weight of what might come tied to that money and make you question whether or not this was something that was right, even if the outcomes that you were seeking were right. Said or unsaid, you wondered what they were expecting of you. Not all donors donate in good faith, and I think we would be naive to think that. [11:10 a.m.] When I became an MLA, after the election, there was an issue that was brought to my attention almost immedi- ately.

The issue was later written about in theNorth Shore News by a reporter named Brent Richter, who headlined his piece “Sweetheart Port Tax Deal Questioned by North Vancouver. ” It was a story about a specific industrial port company in North Vancouver that was given what Richter had des- cribed as a “sweetheart deal” on its property taxes by the previous B.C. Liberal government, leaving other municipal taxpayers to pick up the tab. According to the municipal- ity, the company owed more than $1 million in back taxes and penalties at the time. This was only a part of the very bizarre story and bizarre issue at hand.

Former B.C. Liberal MLA Ralph Sultan was actually quoted in this

article as someone who fought his own gov- ernment on the deal that they had cut the company. I’m going to read to you what he said in the article. I’m quoting from the

article now. “In an interview, Sultan said he has been very definitely on the side of the district in the dis- pute. ” This is now a quote from him. “‘The forestry industry was struggling, and this was an attempt by the B.C. Liberal government to help the forestry industry with one of their channels of distribution. But of course, from the per- spective of the North Shore, they were the ones who were being asked to ante up the subsidy, not the provincial government. They were off-loading this wonderful gift to the real estate tax payers of North Vancouver.

I pointed that out to the minister and said this is not going to sell very well, but I think the question is whether you, in fact, have the right to do this. ’” This ends Mr. Sultan’s quote. The

article further goes on to read: “Sultan said it was the ministry’s position that it was within their rights. ” I’m continuing to read from the article: “Since 2005, Fibreco has donated $48,363 to the B.C. Liberal Party, its candidates or its leadership contestants, according to Elections B.C. In that same time, it gave $1,290 to the B.C. NDP .

Tolko, a company whose affiliate is Fibreco’s majority shareholder, has donated more than $300,000 to the Liberal Party or its candid- ates since 2005. “The terminal also hosted then Premier Christy Clark during the 2017 election for a campaign stop to talk about the importance of the forestry industry to B.C. ’s economy. ” To quote former Premier Clark: “‘The biggest forest-dependent town in British Columbia is Metro Vancouver, ’ Clark told the gathered press.

But even at the time of the campaign stop, Fibreco’s leadership had already set a plan in motion to drastically scale back its wood export business in favour of grain exports. The company had filed applications with the Vancouver-Fraser Port Authority and the district of North Vancouver to demolish the wood-chip export infrastructure and build an $85 million grain terminal. ” Now, why would theNorth Shore News tie donation and election activities to the story about the back taxes? Surely a government wouldn’t make decisions based on who their donors were, would they?

Dermod Travis, who was the former executive director of IntegrityBC and who we said goodbye to in 2020, fol- lowing a life dedicated to transparency and accountability, was quoted later on in the article, which might help answer this question. This is his quote: “Definitely, I think what radiates off this particular case is the fact that something was going on behind close doors, which sug- gested that a sweetheart deal was struck between the provincial government and a major corporation in British Columbia, also a major donor to the B.C.

Liberal Party, and it’s the district of North Vancouver that’s getting stuck with the bill. That would demon- strate, quite frankly, that a lot more sunshine needs to be put on this…to determine whether or not it’s an isolated incident or whether there are similar incidents in other parts of the province as well as Metro Vancouver. ” Now, the reality is I do not know if those donations had anything to do with the decisions that the B.C. Liberal gov- ernment of the day made. [11:15 a.m.] Just like I do not know if big money had anything to do with the sale of B.C.

Rail or the sweetheart deal at Little Mountain or whether it’s merely a coincidence that according to IntegrityBC, top B.C. Liberal donors at the time had received $15 billion in government handouts and that half of all appointees to the various boards and agen- cies and Crown corporations were B.C. Liberal donors. I do not know, and I don’t believe, necessarily, that any- body here can say for sure. But what I do know…. Deputy Speaker:Minister, I think you’ve made your Tuesday, November 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 3889

point. Do you want to move back on to the bill, please? Thank you. Hon. B. Ma:Oh yes. Absolutely. I do know, however, that the fact that we even have to ask is an affront to our democracy. What theNew York Times described as the “Wild West of Canadian political cash” damaged the trust of British Columbians in their government, in their elected officials, in the entire parlia- mentary system.

There should be no question in the minds of the British Columbia public that their elected officials are working for them, because they are the ones who pay for them, not some oil and gas company in Alberta or numbered corpor- ation registered in a different country altogether. A per- son’s ability to become a candidate and run a successful election campaign should not be dependent on their abil- ity to cozy up to wealthy donors. Now, I want to take a moment here and apologize briefly to the members opposite, my B.C.

Liberal colleagues in this House, because I used a lot of examples that were from their time in government simply because those were the examples that were familiar to me. But they were not intended to offend them. In fact, a lot of the members of the current opposition were not even around at the time that happened. The point of the matter is that the structure of our elec- tion campaigns and the framework within which we fund them opens up even well-meaning governments to ques- tions like this that should never have to be asked.

My understanding is that all members of this House will be supporting this bill because it’s the right thing to do, and I’m glad to know that, because I know that we’re going to be doing the right thing together. A. Mercier:It’s a pleasure to rise and speak to this bill, the Election Amendment Act. I’ d like to begin by thanking the members of the special committee for reform and amendment of the Election Act.

I had the pleasure of participating as a member of the committee, and I’ d like to especially thank the Chair of the committee, the member for Surrey-Fleetwood, and also the Deputy Chair, the member for Kamloops–North Thompson, as well as the member for Saanich North and the Islands. I think the work of the committee, the work the com- mittee engaged in, is some of the best work that I’ve seen in this House in the past year, in terms of looking at the bipartisan and cross-partisan nature of consultations, and just the work of the committee.

That’s really, for the folks at home and the folks who may be listening to this, some- thing to consider and to look at when you’re looking at the work of this House — that is, how much of it is done by committees and how much of it is done very effectively across party lines by committees. The Minister of State for Infrastructure touched on this, but I’ d like to talk a bit about the context and the ban on big money. I’m not going to go so much into particular examples. Suffice to say that a dollar should not equal a vote.

That’s something that I think is fairly uncontentious and something that’s pretty broadly accepted in our demo- cracy. Whether you’re taking big money from unions or corporations, that should not determine how many people in the province of British Columbia you are allowed to speak to and reach as a candidate for office. Now, I ran twice for provincial office. I ran first in 2013 and then again in 2020. So I ran under both regimes. The differences are striking, and I can say that the perception by the public of politicians and of our democracy varies greatly.

The level of distrust folks have when they know that politicians are attending big-money events behind closed doors with all types of, frankly, interest groups…. It’s not a good look. It doesn’t smell right, and it’s not something we ought to have in our democracy.

However, to take that out of the equation and to put a cap on dona- tion limits, like we have, which was the right thing to do, also leaves a hole in the financing of political parties. [11:20 a.m.] The stark reality of it is that there are fixed and rising costs to political campaigns in the modern environment, especially with what we’re seeing in terms of an increas- ingly fractured media environment where it’s more and more difficult to reach voters. I’ll give an example.

Just this past election, I didn’t engage — I think like most folks in this House — in door-knocking, with the concerns around social distancing and the coronavirus. So we relied heavily on phone canvassing. Now, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, back when everybody had land-line phones. My parents had land-line phones. Y ou could look up numbers in the phone book and correlate them to the election list. Y ou can’t do that anymore. Folks have cell phones, and cell phone data that’s available to political parties and to candidates running for office to contact voters is very, very poor.

What ends up happening is you start to look for other means to reach people, all of which have a dollar value, and the costs rise. Whether that’s advertising on social media, leafletting, whether you’re doing voice-automated phone calls or advertising in the paper or on television, all of that costs money. That loss of ability to finance is particularly, I think, acutely felt by smaller political parties. So while it’s abso- lutely the right thing to do to ban big money and take money out of politics, we need to make sure that we’re also supporting our democracy and supporting political parties.

That’s what this financing does and what the finan- cing has done. I just want to say a bit…. I’ll talk a bit about the com- mittee, but what we heard from the committee, as well, from the academic experts that we spoke to about the role of political parties in our democracy and in our province, is parties are a good thing. They help make government 3890 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 2, 2021

intelligible. They help organize elections on lines of choice, where folks know what they’re voting for and they know what they’re getting. Y ou could look at today’s political system in pretty stark contrast to the B.C. political system before Richard Mc- Bride, our great Premier that introduced the party system to B.C. Before that, you’ d vote for your local candidate, and you’ d have no idea who would be Premier coming out of that. Y ou’ d have no idea who would be Attorney General or Minister of Finance because it was sorted out by caucus, behind closed doors.

Y ou’ d also have no idea what kind of policies or, frankly, who was funding them would come out of that process. Political parties play a very important brokerage func- tion in our democracy and a very important function for transparency. So I think making sure that they’re well resourced so that we can have competitive elections where folks have choices and where there’s a variety of options and alternative parties is a positive thing. Now, that being said, smaller parties ought to be able to demonstrate a suf- ficient level of popular support to merit that, and that’s how we set up the system.

The committee was an all-party committee, like I said, and we did three broad days of consultation with invited experts and stakeholders that presented to us. We got a whole range of opinion there, different takes, but it all kind of landed broadly in the middle. There was very broad sup- port for financing political parties and for the role political parties play in the process. But there was also very broad support for making the allowance permanent. When you think about it, that just makes good sense. What you don’t want….

I’ll harken back to the federal Harper Conservative government, which removed finan- cing for political parties and kept the donation limit in place. Who was punished by that? Smaller parties. Who ultimately loses from that is the voting public, who is less likely to hear of the opinions and the positions put forward in a political campaign by those smaller parties. So it makes perfect sense to keep it permanent, to keep it non- political and to provide that level of certainty to political parties engaging in the electoral process.

As part of the public consultation, the committee went out and asked three questions: whether the annual allow- ance to political parties should continue after 2022 and, if so, the amount of the allowance and the number of years it should be paid. [11:25 a.m.] It’s noted in the report that was produced by the com- mittee and tabled in this House that the recommendation was that the allowance should stay at $1.75 per vote, which is significantly lower than the allowance was when it was introduced in 2017, as well as to index it to CPI.

I think this is a pretty conservative policy in terms of funding political parties. As a member of the British Col- umbian public myself, I think that members of the public should be heartened that we’ve taken a fairly conservative approach with how to do this. We heard from the member for Surrey-Panorama that the allowance ranges from about $1.60 in New Brunswick to $2.54 in Ontario. We’re right above the lower end of that and making sure it’s indexed to inflation, like I said, to make sure that we’re keeping up with those continuing and rising costs.

Most importantly, I think, are the eligibility require- ments to ensure that what this doesn’t do and what we don’t want is to create a cartel of bigger parties where smal- ler parties can’t break through. The eligibility requirements mean that you have to have 2 percent of the total valid votes cast in the previous general election or 5 percent of the total votes where you’ve run candidates. That is so important, because there are five eligible polit- ical parties right now for this: the B.C. NDP , the B.C. Lib- eral Party, the Green Party, the Conservative Party and the Rural Party.

What you’re seeing there with the Conservat- ive Party and the Rural Party are two small parties that are growing in British Columbia that primarily run candidates and represent rural areas. I think that’s critically important — that we make sure that those voices are heard. They’re not penalized by this eligibility requirement, which is, I think, a benefit to all of us and a benefit to our democracy. I strongly support this bill. I think this is a positive bill. I think it’s relatively uncontentious, and I think it’s for the betterment of our democracy.

Deputy Speaker: I’ d like to thank the Minister of Health and the member for Cariboo-Chilcotin for tak- ing their conversations outside — much appreciated — so it doesn’t disturb those people that are speaking in the House. Thank you. J. Brar:I would like to join other members to say I am very pleased to stand up in this House today to support the Election Amendment Act, 2021, introduced in this House by our government last week. The good thing is that we see some young people up in the gallery sitting there, and looking at the future of this province as to where the polit- ical process is going, moving forward.

I also want to say…. Before I start making my com- ments, I convey my sincere thanks to the committee mem- bers from all parties, from the B.C. Liberal Party, from the Green Party and the NDP Party, who were part of this spe- cial committee. I had the rare honour to be the Chair of that committee. I want to say thanks to them for their ded- ication, deep commitment and unbiased approach to this very important public policy issue. So my sincere thanks to them.

It is important to note that an all-party special com- mittee to review provisions of the elections finance act was established in March 2021 to consider the following things. First, whether an annual allowance paid to political parties should be continued to be paid after 2022. Second, Tuesday, November 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 3891

if an annual allowance to a political party is to be contin- ued, the amount of the annual allowance and the number of years the annual allowance is to be paid. Those were the key questions the committee was supposed to respond to. That was the mandate of the committee. [11:30 a.m.] This all-party committee launched a public consultation process in April 2021, inviting British Columbians to pro- vide written, audio or video submissions prior to May 28, 2021, focused on the above set of questions. An advert- isement was subsequently placed in major provincial and community newspapers.

The Legislative Assembly’s social media account and the committee’s website were also used to promote the consultation process. The committee’s 2021 spring public consultation pro- cess engaged academic experts, stakeholders and individu- al British Columbians to review the annual allowance paid to political parties in the province.

The committee heard a total of 11 presentations and received 103 written submis- sions and one video submission providing input on wheth- er the annual allowance to political parties should contin- ue to be paid after 2020 and, if so, the amount of the annu- al allowance and the number of years it is to be paid. The Chief Electoral Officer, Anton Boegman, and offi- cials from Elections B.C. also appeared before the com- mittee and provided a briefing on the statutory framework and administration of the annual allowance paid to polit- ical parties.

A large majority of the written submissions and oral presentations by academic experts made the following three strong arguments in favour of the continuation of the annual allowance to political parties. First, this annual allowance levels the playing field of political parties and keeps the influence of big money out of politics. Second, a modest vote allowance is a good investment in a strong and fair voting system. Third, by allowing increases with inflation, this system provides all parties with predictable and dependable funding so we can keep the big money out of politics.

As a result of this extensive public consultation pro- cess, the all-party special committee made the following three recommendations to the Legislative Assembly of B.C. First, an annual allowance paid to political parties be continued to be paid after 2022. Second, the annual allowance paid to political parties be calculated as fol- lows: in 2023, $1.75 per vote received in accordance with the applicable

section of the Election Act and, in 2024 and each following year, by adjusting the per-vote amount by the change in the consumer price index for the previous year. Third, the annual allowance paid to political parties be made permanent. Those were the three recommendations made by the special committee, and that’s why we are here today talking about this bill. Therefore, at the unanimous recommend- ation of the all-party Special Committee to Review Pro- visions of the Election Act, proposed amendments to the Election Act will make the annual allowance for political parties permanent.

In 2017, government moved to take big money out of politics by banning unions and corporate donations. At that time, an annual allowance was introduced — it was to expire in 2022 — to support political parties and so that they can transition to the new election financing systems. [11:35 a.m.] The amendment, if passed, ensures that in 2023, eligible political parties will receive $1.75 per vote received in the most recent election, down from $2.50, when the allow- ance was introduced first. Making the annual allowance permanent aligns B.C. with other jurisdictions in Canada, including Quebec and Ontario.

We have also provided an annual allowance after making similar changes to campaign financing rules. Both Ontario and Quebec have done that too. The committee received information from Elections B.C. officials, and public hearing presentations on annual allowances for political parties in other jurisdictions. An- nual allowances range from, as was said earlier by mem- bers, $1.60 per vote in New Brunswick to $2.54 in Ontario. Elections B.C. officials described Ontario’s annual allow- ance as being most like that of B.C. — what we are putting together today.

It should be noted that the Ontario Legislative Assembly recently adopted legislation to extend the provincial annu- al allowance at the rate of $2.54 per vote until 2024 and maintain eligibility criteria which mirror those in British Columbia. Most other jurisdictions with annual allow- ances provide annual adjustments as well to per-vote amounts to reflect changes in the consumer price index. There are some important questions people ask when we talk about the annual allowance to political parties. Questions like: what is the eligibility criteria to receive the per-vote allowance?

To receive this funding, a party must have received at least 2 percent of the total valid votes cast in all electoral districts, or 5 percent of the total valid votes in districts where the party had candidates in the most recent provincial election. At present, as members said earlier, there are five polit- ical parties eligible to receive funding as per the formula today, including the B.C. Green Party, the B.C. Liberal Party, the B.C NDP , the B.C. Conservative Party and the Rural B.C. Party. The other question is…. The annual allowance was ori- ginally due to expire in 2022.

Why are you now making it permanent? That’s a good question. These changes are being made at the unanimous recommendation of an all- party special committee. It’s a unanimous recommenda- tion by an all-party committee to review provisions of the Election Act following the public consultation in April and May 2021, which invited British Columbians to share their thoughts on whether political parties should receive an annual allowance, how much it should be and how long it should be paid. 3892 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 2, 2021

The third question is: why should taxpayers subsidize B.C. political parties? That’s also a question people ask. The previous model of big money donations benefited parties with the wealthiest supporters. Therefore, competitive elections are good for democracy. It strengthens our democracy. Public financing for political parties helps give people the confidence that political parties are working for the people, not particular donors. It helps ensure that parties focus on the issues that matter to most British Col- umbians, working to earn every vote.

Therefore, I would like to conclude by saying that I fully support the Election Amendment Act 2021, because the per-vote allowance levels the playing field for political parties and keeps the influence of big money out of poli- tics. [11:40 a.m.] A modest vote allowance is a good investment in a strong and fair voting system. By allowing increases with inflation, this system provides all parties with predictable and dependable funding, so we can keep big money out of politics. Therefore, I fully support this bill because I think it’s a good bill for the people of British Columbia.

This is a good bill for democracy, to strengthen our democracy, and this comes from the unanimous support of an all-party com- mittee. Hon. N. Cullen:It’s a pleasure to join with my col- leagues today in talking about Bill 27, a relatively small act compared to many bills that are introduced in this place, but I would suggest that its consequences are much lar- ger than the few pages and the few amendments that exist within this piece of legislation.

Bills like this, changes like this that our government, this Legislature, is making to the way that democracy exists in British Columbia, have far-reaching effects, and I, along with many others, would argue that those effects are over- whelmingly positive. Now, for the place that I represent, northwestern British Columbia and Stikine, the largest and one of the more remote ridings….

Many small communities, not necessar- ily a lot of wealthy and well-connected people to this place, the powers of this place, yet they need voices and repres- entation that can do the job on their behalf as well as any other British Columbian, regardless of their income, their political connection, their family, etc. For rural and remote British Columbians, for people who don’t have a lot of money — middle income, low income, people just struggling to get by….

They need to have that faith that is oftentimes shaken, if not outright broken, that when we send someone to the Legislature, when we send someone to town council, when we send someone to parliament, they’re working and speaking on our behalf. One of the things that comes into that ques- tion, for many voters, is money — the question of who’s paying for campaigns, the signs, the door-knocking and all the rest. Is there any link in the contributions that people make into corrupting the system?

I use that word very specifically because it’s such a dan- gerous element in our politics, the question of money, the question of equity, access, not just for the wealthy and well-connected — who, in my experience, always find a way to take care of their interests and needs — but for the vast majority of British Columbians that we hope to serve each and every day.

It is important, and it has been underlined that this bill is coming forward with all-party contribution and all- party support, not necessarily a common thing, especially when talking about things like campaign finance reform and elections, which can be, by its nature, very divisive. This bill has been able to achieve, I believe, support from all of the represented parties in this place. That is a good thing, because it beats back that energy of cynicism, those thoughts of conspiracy that we so often see if you ever read the comments on social media, which you should not do as a general rule.

It’s an unfortunate state of affairs that we live in today, the great potential of unifica- tion that social media could have. I’m looking at the Health Minister right now in par- ticular. I encourage him, generally, not to read the com- ments because it’s a place in which, oftentimes, legitimate concerns get swirled up into the more conspiratorial end of things when talking about who politicians work for, who we represent. Sometimes you see that cynicism come through in letters to the editor, for those of a more tradi- tional bent, but also in the comment

section on any social media post that you may put up. In this place, we understand, those of us who come from rural B.C., that there is sometimes, not sometimes — there is — an outnumbering between the rural and urban votes that are cast in this province, the representation that comes forward in this place. We understand that fully, that the urban parts of this province have always been larger, and they’re growing, in fact, faster still.

The ability for us to understand the connection back to money, the connection back to those in our society who have a great deal of money, not having an even more out- sized influence on what happens in British Columbia — this bill deals with that. Many of my colleagues have touched on the basic mech- anics of the bill, which are very important in terms of a logical and sequential step to making sure that big money stays out of politics.

That’s what our government commit- ted to, based on what I would call some pretty telling and dangerous experiences of what it was like in British Col- umbia prior to the changes that we made. [11:45 a.m.] It’s been cited. It wasn’t just theNew York Times. It was many commentators across this country and around the world. When looking at the rules, or, if I could say, lack of rules that guided political donations in British Col- umbia, that it was legal, under previous governments, for Tuesday, November 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 3893

numbered companies, offshore donations, to arrive in this province disclosed somewhat. It was the experience of a previous Premier who went to Calgary. In just one dinner at the Petroleum Club, a former B.C. Liberal Premier was able to raise $1 million in a night — 1 million bucks — from a neighbouring province from one sector in particular at the Petroleum Club, while we were debating many important energy issues that were going on. There’s a connection of people wondering: how does that work? How do you raise 1 million bucks in a neigh- bouring province from one particular sector? Do you have to be nice?

Is that enough? Do you have to consider policies? Do you have to consider the laws that are com- ing? That’s where the trust starts to break. That’s where peo- ple start to say: “Well, the person I sent to the Legisla- ture…. Maybe their voice is being overridden. My influ- ence as a single individual voter and my family’s influence is diminished somewhat when there are just simply no limits whatsoever to those who have money being able to drop a million bucks in an evening to support one candid- ate or another. ” I spent a fair amount of time in Washington, D.C., south of the border.

There, of course, they’ve had, all the way up to the Supreme Court, cases where money has been equated with voice and rights. It’s a most unfor- tunate decision, but that’s their jurisdiction. But it’s informative and instructive for us within our rules and our laws that when we, as a government, banned big money out of our politics, what does it look like when big money is in politics? For anyone to stroll the halls of power in Washington and bump into who you bump into — pharmaceuticals, energy, private health insurers. The gun lobby, somewhat — not so much for money but for other things.

But certain folks walk those halls of power on a consistent basis, and they’re not just walking. They’re talking, and they’re influ- encing, and they’re able to either make commitments and promises of extraordinary amounts of money to our coun- terparts south of the border but also the withholding of that money for future elections. There is an equation that is not perfect but exists within western democracy, that those that tend to raise the most have a much better chance of being successful at the polls, because they can simply pay for more advertising. They can hire people to knock on doors.

They can do all those things that money enables in an election. Watching that influence happen in an extreme and an almost obscene way as it was taking place, I would argue, in our province for far too many years and in other juris- dictions like in the U.S., one doesn’t have to be a genius to know that there’s going to be some cause and effect. If there are simply no limits, and there are no rules, and there’s no understanding that the influence of money will play on our politics, then they say money in politics is like water on the sidewalk.

It’s going to find its way through all the little cracks and the little nooks and crannies that you leave unless you seal it, unless you say this is no longer acceptable. So we capped donations but, I think, at a reasonable rate that most working people can imagine that amount of money, and we also just out- right banned donations. Then, the third piece of it, I would argue — there are probably more pieces that the minister can speak to — was ensuring that parties had sufficient money to exer- cise the democratic process and run campaigns to some sufficient level.

The starting at $2.50 per vote is now going to be reduced down to $1.75 and then connected to inflation. Not in my jurisdiction, anyways, you can’t get a cup of coffee any- more for a buck seventy-five. I don’t know. I’m looking at the Health Minister, definitely not in his riding is coffee going for a $1.75 anymore. The idea of that being a reasonable amount, the exer- cising right…. I’ve actually done a fair amount of cam- paigning outside of my jurisdiction. There are times when people will say: “I know candidate X isn’t winning. ” They traditionally get 5 percent or 10 percent of the vote.

When we had this federally, this was in place for a small amount of time. “But I know my vote’s going to mean something important to them in their ability to represent my views even though they may not represent me as a riding. ” Electoral reform is another issue we’ll talk about anoth- er day maybe. [11:50 a.m.] The effective voice and the connection back to effective voice, and that we all go into what I consider a sacred place — the ballot box.

Our ability to put a tick beside the name that we think will best represent our hopes and our dreams and the dreams and hopes of our families and our com- munities is a place that we should jealously guard — that power, that connection to citizen power in that moment, where the advertising doesn’t matter, where all that try to influence and the spin doctors no longer have effect, where that person, that voter can sit there and exercise their right.

I took my kids, who are now 11, into the ballot box with me — well, it was a voting station; it wasn’t a box, you know, how it works — to demystify, in fact, the pro- cess. I think for a lot of young British Columbians, a lot of young Canadians…. They don’t get into that part. We know, in practice, that when we get young people to vote early, they’re much, much more likely to vote the rest of their lives. The reason that’s important is because when people vote, they’re much more likely pay to attention. And when people pay attention to what’s going on in their world, they hold us more to account.

When cynicism overrides the system, when people no longer feel connected to the folks that they send to this place, they stop paying attention, and bad things happen. 3894 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 2, 2021

We know sunlight is the best disinfectant. It’s talked about far too much. I’m conscious of the time and eager to hear some of the, perhaps, closing remarks from the minister. There were hard lessons learned in this province when there were no rules, when it was simply, sometimes, elec- tions to the highest bidder. That caused serious and sig- nificant problems, not only in the minds and the views of voters and how much they could trust their connection to their elected representatives.

I think it made for very bad policy from time to time, when it’s big condo developers and significant resource sectors that are able to drop, in some cases…. We have all the examples here. I don’t want to raise them. I don’t want to hurt the feelings of any of my col- leagues across the way, who are understandably somewhat sensitive to some of the past records of fundraising shen- anigans that took place and in which millions and millions of dollars were showered down upon their party. I’m sure there was never a promise made…. Interjections. Hon. N. Cullen:I know, as we can hear, Mr.

Speaker, sensitivities remain. It’s okay. I don’t know if they doth protest too much, but it’s probably something to that effect. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Just one moment. We’ll let the minister finish, please. Thank you. Go ahead. Hon. N. Cullen:I’ll finish on a positive note, for both my friends on this side of the aisle and across the way. We understand that there are things that ought to unify us. One of those things is the fairness of our election, the fairness of the vote, the free vote of citizens that we seek to represent. We do our best. That connection must be maintained and sustained.

It can’t be left to just the vagaries of the market. It has to be something in which the public con- science of good governance implores us to pass legislation like this, which can then rebuild or establish the trust that has sometimes been eroded between us and the people that we seek to represent. I’m proud to support this legislation and look forward to even more excellent legislation from the minister. Deputy Speaker:Seeing no further members, the min- ister would like to close the debate. Hon. D. Eby:Thank you very much, hon. Speaker.

I would adopt the conclusion of the Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations, the positive note he finished on, about the importance of this legislation for democracy. I appreciate very much his remarks as well as the remarks of my colleagues the member for Langley, the Minister of State for Infrastructure and all members who spoke to this. I’ d also like to make special note that I was paying atten- tion and listening to the spokesperson for the opposition on this, the member for Abbotsford West.

I continue to appreciate his willingness both to engage with the subject matter of the bill but also to lay out which areas he will be canvassing in committee stage. Rest assured, it is useful, I’m sure. I will make certain that staff are aware of his remarks. We’re better prepared and the debate is better at committee stage for it. So I’m grateful for that. I move the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House to be considered at the next…. Oh, pardon me. I’m getting ahead of myself. Let’s move second reading. With that, I move second reading of the bill. Motion approved. Hon. D.

Eby: Now I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting after today. Bill 27, Election Amendment Act, 2021, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. D. Eby moved adjournment of the House. Motion approved. Deputy Speaker:This House is adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon. The House adjourned at 11:54 a.m. Tuesday, November 2, 2021 British Columbia Debates 3895

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Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20211102am-Hansard-n122
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20211102am Hansard n122
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0ead5c348e1216e996b48e0c6d64deb6013662b2

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