May 13, 2002 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 22

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

Before I recognize the hon. the Premier, I would like to take this

opportunity to welcome twelve students from St. Thomas of Villanova Junior High

School in the District of Topsail. They are accompanied by their teachers: Mr.

Dennis Madden and Ms Darlene Moulton.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today, with the concurrence of the Leader of the Opposition and the Member

for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, I will move, with leave in a few minutes, that the

Honourable Lloyd L. W. Wicks be appointed as the Province's first Child and

Youth Advocate effective September 16, 2002.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, as I think members in the House would know,

Judge Wicks and his family are in the Speaker's gallery with us today.

I wish to inform the House of Assembly that this proposed appointment has

been made, as I indicated, by agreement of all parties. The Office of the Child

and Youth Advocate is independent of the provincial government and reports

directly to this House of Assembly. The legislation establishing the Child and

Youth Advocate received Royal Assent in the House of Assembly on December 13,

2001, and is being proclaimed effective as of today's date. The advocate will

focus on public programs and services that have an impact on children and youth

under the age of nineteen. The advocate will also receive inquiries and

complaints from individual children and youth, up until the age of twenty-one,

for youth who are in care or custody until the age of nineteen.

Mr. Speaker, the announcement of the Child and Youth Advocate today is

another step in fulfilling the commitments that I made to the people of the

privacy of individuals. Last year, the government also appointed a Citizens'

Representative and a Petroleum Products Pricing Commissioner.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that over the past year, government has introduced

more initiatives to provide openness and accountability than any other

government during any time in our history.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, Judge Wicks was first appointed as a

provincial court judge in 1963. He became the Province's first youth court

judge in 1984 and remained in this position until his retirement from the Bench

in 1993. He has a long and distinguished career in promoting and ensuring that

the "best interest of the child" is paramount in any decision made on

behalf of the child. He promoted this philosophy both in his professional role

as a judge and also in the broader based community as a volunteer. Since his

retirement from the Bench, Judge Wicks has continued to demonstrate his

commitment to the protection, fulfillment and enrichment of children through his

involvement in a wide range of community interest groups.

We look forward, Mr. Speaker, to having Judge Wicks serve this Legislature

and the people of the Province in his new role as Child and Youth Advocate, and

we are pleased to welcome him today.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I won't deal with the issue of openness and accountability and

important an occasion.

Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House, certainly the Opposition, are

pleased to see the issue of child advocacy finally receive the attention that it

so rightly deserves, and certainly welcome the appointment of Lloyd Wicks as

Child Advocate.

In fact, this position is something that we have been pushing for since 1996

and we congratulate the government on acting upon such an important cause. As

well, it is just one more tick we can put on our policies in the Blue Book as

done, in the bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: I believe, Mr. Speaker, that we are now the seventh

province to appoint a Child Advocate. It is unfortunate that we had to wait so

long for this appointment, but at least we are finally following the national

trend in giving the matter the attention it so rightly deserves.

Mr. Speaker, it is our hope that our new Child Advocate will increase

awareness of children's issues in government. In particular, we hope the

advocate will address the special and unique social, physical, mental and

special health requirements of all children and youth in our Province. Given

that Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest child poverty rate in Canada, our

new advocate is certainly facing a challenge. As a family-oriented party, we are

firmly committed to progressing the needs of children in whatever way possible.

I offer the new Child Advocate whatever support we can provide.

Mr. Speaker, on a personal note, if I may have leave for a moment, I have

known this gentleman and his family for a long time. I have the greatest respect

for him as a judge, and as a person and as an advocate. It goes back about

thirty years when, as a young lawyer, I went to his courtroom in Clarenville. It

was my first criminal case. I was representing a young bridegroom who

unfortunately had been arrested on the night he was leaving his own reception.

He and his bride were heading home from the reception and he was stopped. The

happy conclusion to that is, a very Solomon-like decision was rendered by Judge

Wicks at the end.

The more important story is that accompanying me on that trip to Clarenville

was my wife Maureen, who was nine months pregnant. We went out for the day, for

the run and she was there to give me some moral support because I was a rookie

at the time. Anyway, as we went through the case in the afternoon and I was up

presenting final argument and was going on and trying to make a case for my

client, Judge Wicks called me to the Bench and said: my son, you might want to

wrap up pretty soon because your wife seems to be in some pain. So, I said: What

do you mean, Judge? Well he said, she's bending over and she seems to be

clutching her stomach a little bit. Anyway, I went to the back of the courtroom

and said: Maureen, what's wrong? She said: I'm in labour, that's what's

wrong. I said: okay. Anyway, we did wrap up the case and as I said, it was a

good decision. We raced back to St. John's and Jillian, our eldest, was born

five hours later. So not only is he an advocate now, he was an advocate then for

unborn children.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Finally, Mr. Speaker, his son Brad is my partner. How could

I say anything bad about him anyway?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Like the Leader of the Opposition, I will not deal with some of the political

issues raised by the Premier but the issue of the Child Advocate was a unanimous

recommendation of a Select Committee of this House some five years ago, and we

had been looking forward to the implementation of that recommendation for some

time. We are very pleased to see the cumulation of that today with the

appointment of Lloyd Wicks.

My own relationship, like all lawyers, or most lawyers I suppose, we have

appeared before Lloyd Wicks. I cannot tell my relationship as intimate as that

of the Leader of the Opposition but for many years, of course, Judge Wicks on

the Bench, heard criminal cases and small claims as well as the Youth Judge

cases in the Youth Court. Since his retirement he has also been involved as a

strong public advocate for the interests of children for proper application of

the Young Offenders Act and proper amendments to the Young Offenders Act. This

opportunity gives him a chance to expand that advocacy into the other important

areas involving youth. Certainly the social side, the policies of government as

they affect young people. We know in this Province, from our tragic history with

the Mount Cashel and other sexual abuse cases, the need for a strong advocacy

within the system and to make sure the system works properly.

I would offer, as well, any support and assistance to Judge Wicks in his new

role and new function. I congratulate him on his appointment here today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am sorry, this is a serious issue we are dealing with. The Member from Cape

St. Francis had me distracted, Mr. Speaker, for a minute.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice and ask leave at this point to move the following

resolution:

WHEREAS under

Section 4(2) of the Child and Youth Advocate Act the

Lieutenant-Governor in Council sought applications from the general public

before selecting a person to be the Child and Youth Advocate; and

WHEREAS under

Section 4(1) of the Child and Youth Advocate Act the

Lieutenant-Governor in Council has authorized to appoint a person to be the

Child and Youth Advocate of Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS under

Section 4(1) of the Child and Youth Advocate Act the person

appointed to the position of Child and Youth Advocate must be confirmed in

office by a resolution of the House of Assembly;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this Honourable House of Assembly confirm the

appointment of Lloyd L.W. Wicks to the position of Child and Youth Advocate of

Newfoundland and Labrador effective September 16, 2002.

MR. SPEAKER: All those in favour of the resolution, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against the resolution, nay'.

On motion, resolution carried.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On Friday past forty-seven nursing students from all parts of this Province,

and one from as far away as Mississauga, Ontario, received their Bachelor of

Nursing Degree at Sir Wilfred Grenfell's 2002 Annual Convocation.

Later that same day, these graduates along with their families and friends

attended a second ceremony where they were recognized and presented with

individual awards by the faculty and the staff of the Western Regional School of

Nursing.

In speaking with many of the graduates, Mr. Speaker - twenty-six, by the way,

have accepted employment with the Western Region - it was very clear to this

particular member that we are graduating well trained energetic professionals

who are ready to take on the challenges of tomorrow.

As a measure of the high standards of training that our nursing graduates are

receiving, the Western Regional School of Nursing and the Sir Wilfred Grenfell

College last year received a seven year accreditation from the Canadian

Association of University Schools of Nursing. An achievement, Mr. Speaker, that

is the envy of many nursing schools.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in

congratulating these forty-seven new nursing graduates and wish them well in all

their future endeavors wherever those endeavors might lead them.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today and ask hon. members to join with me in wishing a

resident of the District of Kilbride a happy eighty-seventh birthday, Mr. Jack

McDonald, who was born in 1915. A keen and astute political observer over the

last eighty-seven years, anybody who has taken the time to visit Jack can be

entertained with stories of Peter Cashin, of the great Confederate debates, of

his strong opinions held on Confederation, certainly, and former Premier Joseph

Smallwood.

Jack was the first inductee into the Atlantic farmers' dairy hall of fame

for his tremendous and outstanding contribution to the Province's dairy

industry.

I ask all hon. members, and indeed you, Mr. Speaker, to join with me, and

certainly his family members, in wishing him a happy eighty-seventh birthday,

which was yesterday.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize a group of college students from Quebec who are

completing work terms in Newfoundland.

Research is being conducted by the students in conjunction with the St. John's

Francophone Association and Cegep De Saint-Felicien College Lac-Saint-Jean,

Quebec.

As many members may know, the Carbonear-Harbour Grace area has a strong

held out against French invaders in 1697 and 1705.

One of the students, Reynald Belley, is concentrating his research on points

of interest that would intrigue French visitors in the Conception Bay North

area. He expects that there will be a large increase in the number of French

speaking visitors to the region as a result of their research project.

Businesses and residents have been told to expect an increase in French bus

tours in 2003.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating these college students for promoting our heritage, and urge them

to continue to promote our wonderful Province. Their work will go a long way in

helping local people who have been working towards developing our historic

sites.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take the opportunity today to inform all Members of the House

of Assembly, and indeed the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, of a great

achievement by the 2895 Enright Memorial Royal Army Cadet Corps of St. Catherine's

Academy on the Salmonier Line.

Last week, the shooting team from this Army Cadet Corps won the National Air

Rifle Competition in Comox, British Columbia. They brought home the Gold as the

top unit in the entire country. They also made up the Newfoundland team and won

Gold in the provincial category. Individually, three members of the team placed

First, Second and Third. Gold went to Private Brenda Greene, fourteen years of

age; Silver when to Sergeant Wayne Nolan, seventeen years old; and Third Place

was presented to Master Corporal Laurie Hearn, sixteen years old.

Other members of the team are: Sergeant Darren Dobbin, sixteen years old, and

Cadet Justin Hearn, just twelve years old. The team is coached by Lt. Tony

Reardon.

Numerous hours of practice and commitment by the leaders and cadets have

resulted in this magnificent achievement. The St. Catherine's school community

is justifiably proud of this accomplishment, as I am sure all Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians are.

The team arrived back at St. John's Airport yesterday around 4:30 p.m. and

were met at the Salmonier Line Trans-Canada Highway intersection by a large

motorcade of family and friends.

Most of these cadets have been training for years to reach this goal. They

won Bronze in 2000, Silver in 2001, and this year reached the top by winning the

Gold.

When you consider, Mr. Speaker, that there are 60,000 Army, Sea and Air

Cadets across Canada, and the larger provinces have a lot more training

resources than we have here in Newfoundland, the magnitude of a half-dozen young

people from Salmonier beating them really shows what we are made of in this

great Province we call home.

I would like to ask all members of the House to join with me in

congratulating the 2895 Enright Memorial Royal Canadian Army Cadet Corps of St.

Catherine's Academy on a job well done.

You have made us all proud!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell

Island.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, I rise before the House today to congratulate the

participants and the organizers of the Town of Paradise Municipal Awards which

took place on Thursday, April 25, 2002.

The evening was a great evening and the awards were presented to many

individuals in different capacities. My colleague, the Member for Topsail,

shared in that responsibility that evening as well.

The event was held to honour outstanding contributions by the residents of

Paradise over the past year. There were several categories in which awards were

presented.

The winners were: Youth of the Year, Kingsley Gifford; Volunteer of the Year,

Ray Butler; Citizen of the Year, Ab Singleton; Coach of the Year, Bruce Welcher;

Male Athlete of the Year, Trevor O'Brien; while Female Athlete of the Year

went to Hilary Hutton; and Volunteer Group of the Year went to the Paradise

Elementary School Volunteers.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the House to join with me in congratulating the town

of Paradise for the effort they put forth in keeping their community in good

health and spirit, and also to congratulate all the nominees and all those who

received awards that evening.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate and really pay tribute to two schools in my

district for receiving a National award and an Atlantic Canada award.

The Nabisco Company of Canada sponsors a national reading program each year

called the Mr. Christie Smart Cookie Program for children from Kindergarten to

Grade 6. This contest basically challenges students to read.

First, I want to congratulate the eighty-six students of Valmont Academy in

King's Point, for winning the Atlantic Canada Grand Prize for reading an

average of 125 books per student. Secondly, I would like to congratulate the H.L.

Strong Academy on Little Bay Islands for winning the National Grand Prize. These

students read an average of 824 books.

Mr. Speaker, these two awards of an Atlantic Canada award and a National

Grand Prize award is a tremendous achievement for both these schools. There is

no doubt with computers, and technologies today, that anything that encourages

children to read is certainly welcomed.

The Atlantic Grand Prize award is $5,000 worth of random house books which

will be presented to Valmont Academy in King's Point. The National Grand Prize

is for $10,000 worth of books to H.L. Strong Academy on Little Bay Islands, plus

a visit from an award winning author who will be coming soon. I add, Mr.

Speaker, last year this small school on Little Bay Islands won the Atlantic;

this year they won the national. The Minister of Education accompanied me to

Little Bay Islands last year when they celebrated this.

Mr. Speaker, in addition, this year they added another part to the contest

for an individual award for the person who read the most books in Canada and it

went to Chantal Weir of H.L. Strong Academy in Little Bay Islands. That was an

added part this year where she will actually receive a $2,000 computer. This is

quite an achievement.

This contest is, by the way, fair to all students across Canada because it is

won on the average number of books. Apparently there was a comment again in The

Globe and Mail , some snide remark, on a small school in Newfoundland winning

this award.

Well, I am here today to say that I am very proud of these eight students who

won this national award. I am very proud of them.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to inform hon. members

about an exciting event I attended on Saturday, in which Their Majesties, King

Harald V and Queen Sonja of Norway visited the L'Anse aux Meadows National

Historic Site to unveil a replica bust of Helge and Anne Stine Ingstad.

I was extremely delighted to represent the provincial government in welcoming

the King and Queen of Norway during their visit to Newfoundland and Labrador,

and especially to the extraordinary UNESCO World Heritage Site in L'Anse aux

Meadows.

As we joined with Their Majesties in dedicating a monument to Dr. Helge

Ingstad, and his wife and partner, Dr. Anne Stine Ingstad , we were reminded of

the important contribution they made to the history of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

As hon. colleagues are aware, Helge Ingstad, a Norwegian historian and

explorer, accompanied by his wife, archaeologist Anne Stine Ingstad, uncovered

the remains of the 11 th century buildings in L'Anse aux Meadows in

They have made considerable contributions to world history, verifying that

the Vikings were the first to arrive in North America, 500 years prior to

Columbus.

These dedicated anthropologists and explorers have truly earned the

admiration and thanks of the Province and people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

There are very few among us who commit to a vision, and an ideal to the

extent of Dr. Ingstad. With his wife, Dr. Ingstad left Norway and made this

Province his home while he toiled for more than seven years to uncover the

evidence needed to prove the Norse sagas, that the Vikings discovered North

America at L'Anse aux Meadows 500 years before Giovanni Caboto.

The discovery at L'Anse aux Meadows is hailed as one of the most

significant pieces of archaeological and historical research to have ever taken

place in this Province.

This work has retrieved for us, as Newfoundlander and Labradorians, an

unknown part of our history, a history that allowed us to so proudly recognize

the arrival of the Vikings at L'Anse aux Meadows more than 1,000 years ago.

During the Vikings! 1000 Years Celebrations in 2000, we embraced this

heritage as a people. We were awakened to a past that is proud and strong and we

came to know better the history of those who lived before us and those who

visited them. To the Ingstads, we are grateful for this.

The ceremony on Saturday symbolized the never ending ties that exist between

Newfoundland and Labrador and Norway, by virtue of this site and the work of the

Ingstads in its discovery and development.

It also symbolized the gratitude of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador

to the Ingstads and the connection we feel with another northern region and

culture that is taking place on the world stage.

I would invite all hon. members of this House to take the time to visit the L'Anse

aux Meadows site, as I have, and experience its beauty, history and culture

first hand.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take this opportunity to extend a belated welcome to Their

Majesties, King Harald V and Queen Sonja of Norway on visiting L'Anse aux

Meadows National Historic Site and UNESCO World Heritage Site on Saturday past.

Mr. Speaker, having grown up five miles from L'Anse aux Meadows, and having

spent many a day and night in L'Anse aux Meadows in my younger years and

certainly as recently as a couple of weeks ago, I do know the contribution that

the Vikings and Dr. Helge and Dr. Anne Stine Ingstad have made to L'Anse aux

Meadows on the tip of the Northern Peninsula; it being the premier tourist

destination on the Northern Peninsula, Mr. Speaker, having about 30,000 visitors

per year.

I will mention a couple of things, and I will agree with the minister in

saying that there are few who commit to a vision and an ideal to the extent of

Dr. Ingstad. Mr. Speaker, I will say that there are certainly few on that side

of the House - because I, Mr. Speaker, felt insulted, and I am sure the people

of the Straits & White Bay North felt insulted on Saturday past when I, as

their duly elected representative for the Straits & White Bay North, was not

afforded opportunity and invitation by this government or by the federal

representative to attend the ceremony at L'Anse aux Meadows. I could not

believe it, Mr. Speaker, and it was not an oversight on anybody's part. We all

know what protocol is. We know that there are people who should be invited to

these events. It was a Royal visit, and to see that this government could stoop

to such a political level is unbelievable, Mr. Speaker.

I say congratulations. I commend Their Majesties on visiting L'Anse aux

Meadows and unveiling a bust to Helge and Anne Stine Ingstad. Unfortunately, Mr.

Speaker, I have to say again, that I, and the people of the Straits & White

Bay North are insulted by this government's attitude and the levels that they

have stooped to - the smallness that they would stoop to when there is a Royal

visit, in leaving me out as the duly elected representative for the people

there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am shocked to just learn that the member for the district in which this

event took place was not invited to participate and represent the people from

the district who played an important role, of course, in supporting the

development of this site and, in fact, assisted in its discovery.

I also, however, would like to say that we were pleased to have King Harald

and Queen Sonja of Norway visit our Province and recognize the great

contribution that Dr. Helge Ingstad and Anne Stine Ingstad gave to this Province

and also to their own culture by recognizing and proving that the Vikings saga

as an oral tradition of the Norwegian countries was, in fact, true, and proving

that this was, in fact, the first and only proven site of a Viking establishment

in North America.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It was a very important discovery, and important to the history of the

Vikings in North America. It is kind of ironic, Mr. Speaker, I was reading the

other day about another recognition of Viking culture in North America at the

Museum of Civilization in Ottawa where an exhibit has been mounted on the

Vikings. A couple of years late, we had our own in 2001, but it is kind of

interesting and it would be amusing if it wasn't so typical, that this

national exhibit in the Museum of Civilization in Ottawa concentrates and

focuses on the possibility that the Vikings visited other places in North

America. It seems to be, as an afterthought, mentioned that there was a proven

site in Newfoundland and Labrador where the Vikings actually were a thousand

years ago. As I said, it would be amusing if it wasn't typical, Mr. Speaker,

coming from our national institutions.

I wanted to mention that because it is a sore point with a lot of people,

that we do not get the kind of recognition in this country for the things that

go on in Newfoundland and Labrador, but we do appreciate the visit of the

Norwegian King and Queen and we do appreciate the work and the legacy of Drs.

Helge Ingstad and Anne Stine Ingstad.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, just in reference to the point made by the Member

for The Straits & White Bay North, that he wasn't invited to the event, I

can only say that the Province had nothing to do with the invited guests.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. LUSH: This was a matter, Mr. Speaker, taken care of by the federal

government with the head of state from another country and they took care of the

invited guests. I will say this: I apologize, on behalf of the federal

government, to the hon. member. I can only say, if we were organizing it, the

hon. member would have been invited.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to advise hon. members that May 12-18, 2002, is

National Mining Week throughout Canada.

Mr. Speaker, this week provides an opportunity to recognize the important

contribution that mining and the mineral industry makes to the Newfoundland and

Labrador economy. This year, approximately 2,500 people will be directly

employed in the Province's mining industry, with the total value of mineral

shipments estimated to be worth approximately $790 million.

Our mining operations throughout the Province continue to produce at

impressive levels. Over a dozen mineral commodities including gold, iron ore and

gypsum are produced in our mines. Industrial minerals, such as dimension stone,

slate and limestone are also creating new opportunities in our industry.

Labrador West continues to produce approximately 55 per cent of Canada's iron

ore products.

Mr. Speaker, the Province has had a long mining history dating back to the

late 1500s. This continues through to this day as prospectors and junior

exploration companies continue to seek out minerals which could lead to the

development of a gold, zinc or copper mine.

New exploration opportunities in areas such as the Botwood Basin, in Central

Newfoundland, are causing renewed excitement for possible future gold

discoveries. Over 11,000 new claims have been staked in this area in 2002. The

Province's geology continues to attract exploration companies and we estimate

that $13 million to $16 million will be spent on exploration in the Province

this year. Only through continuous exploration will new mines be developed in

our Province.

The Department of Mines and Energy continues to actively encourage and

support the mineral industry with informative resource data, mine engineering

assistance and incentive programs. We continue to work with industry to

strengthen the opportunities in our mineral sector. Through our resource

management activities we continue to ensure that our mineral resources are

developed and managed in a sustainable manner.

Mr. Speaker, during this week, I would encourage everyone to investigate our

mineral potential and the importance of this sector to our Province. I am

certain that you will not be disappointed with what the mineral industry has, in

fact, to offer.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On this side of the House, we certainly recognize the important contribution

with respect to the mining industry in this Province and we salute the 2,500

people who are directly involved in this particular industry. Obviously, we have

to recognize the great work and accomplishments of those individuals in Labrador

West and other parts of the Province who are engaged in this very important

industry. However, I say to the minister, there is a certain irony in what the

minister has to say, and it is with respect directly to the last sentence of his

statement where the minister says, "During this week, I encourage everyone

to investigate our mineral potential and the importance of this sector to our

economy."

Mr. Speaker, there is to be an agreement, perhaps in the very near future,

with respect to a particular mining activity in this Province, and I can assure

the minister that this agreement and this whole issue will be fully

investigated. It will be fully questioned. The minister will be fully probed,

and his government will be fully probed, with a view to having any agreement and

the details of that agreement brought back to this Legislature to ensure that it

is fully assessed, the details and the particulars are fully scrutinized -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: - prior to any agreement being binding and final to the

people of this Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is certainly a pleasure for me to rise today and acknowledge Mining Week

and the important contribution that mining makes to our provincial economy. Of

the 2,500 people who are employed in the mining industry and the $790 million

that the minister mentions, I am proud to say that most of that, Mr. Speaker,

the vast majority, is certainly in the area that I am proud to represent, that

of Labrador West. The mining industry generally provides decent paying jobs to

all of those who work there and good benefits to them and their families.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, the other important thing about the mining

industry, in this Province, is the secondary industry that it generates -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. COLLINS: It is also important to recognize the secondary industry

that provides support to the mining industry in general, Mr. Speaker, and all of

the people who are employed in these jobs.

We look forward, Mr. Speaker, to the mining industry continuing to be a

significant player on the provincial scene when we look at the other

developments that are possible like silica, graphite, gold, and certainly Voisey's

Bay. We certainly impress upon this government, as I said earlier this week, Mr.

Speaker, to ensure that any development from Voisey's Bay contains the

provision that guarantees employment to people who live in the area of Labrador

where Voisey's Bay is located.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions this afternoon are for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, there continues to be signs that a deal is about to happen on

Voisey's Bay. Recently Lawrence O'Brien, Member of Parliament, a good friend

of the provincial government, obviously -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. WILLIAMS: I can see by the way they are reacting, a little testy here

this afternoon.

Lawrence O'Brien expects a deal to be reached by the end of this month. One

would think that the federal MP for Labrador would know with great certainty the

status of negotiations on Voisey's Bay. Yet, Mr. Speaker, the Premier and the

Minister of Mines and Energy repeatedly deny that a deal is about to be signed

and that our ore and our jobs will be shipped to Manitoba and Ontario.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier if he would confirm the statement of

Lawrence O'Brien, that he expects a deal on Voisey's Bay to be signed by the

end of this month?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The only thing I can confirm to my knowledge with respect to the federal MP

for Labrador is that he is supportive of a deal with Inco and Voisey's Bay

Nickel for developing the nickel project at Voisey's Bay. He is trying to be

helpful, as I understand it, with respect to discussions and negotiations that

report, that I know of, with respect to Mr. O'Brien.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier refuses to provide answers on questions as to when the deal is

going to take place; continues to do it.

Mr. Speaker, it is common knowledge that SNC Lavalin will be the general

contractor for the entire project. We understand that a construction company has

been selected to build the necessary road infrastructure and as well, Aliant was

preparing its bid on the communications contract for Voisey's Bay.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier, is he aware of this construction

activity or any other, and would he not agree that it is proved positive that MP

Lawrence O'Brien is correct when he says that a deal will likely be reached by

the end of this month?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, again, I have answered every question, as I

understand it, that has been asked by the Leader of the Opposition, as I always

do.

All I can say with respect to whether or not there are some discussions

between Inco and Voisey's Bay Nickel, and engineering firms and contractors,

they are not discussions that we are involved in. I hope it is a hopeful sign. I

am the one person in Newfoundland and Labrador who has been trying now for

three-and-a-half, if not four years, to find a way to make this deal come to

fruition so that we can gain the benefits for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians,

and have it happen and meet the mandate that we have been given to make sure

that a finished nickel product leaves Newfoundland and Labrador; and that over

the life of the project, that all of it is done here in Newfoundland and

Labrador in the life of the agreement that we will reach. We are working very

hard at that. We do not have any deal to announce or present to the people of

the Province or to the House of Assembly, but if there are others out there who

are showing signs that are hopeful, than I am glad to hear it and I hope there

is more of it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier answers all questions; I will give him an opportunity to answer

one this time. I will see what he has to say on this particular question.

At the Resource Estimates Committee - the committee that was shut down by

government, that would not allow us to bring witnesses before - the Minister of

Mines and Energy said, on May 1 -

AN HON. MEMBER: That's not true.

MR. WILLIAMS: The Minister of Mines and Energy said on May 1, and I

quote, "We are not paying any interest really as to where the concentrate

is going to come back from in thirty to thirty-five years..." As well, at

the same session he said, "I am satisfied to risk the future generations

having to watch feed come in to run the plant after Voisey's is mined out

after thirty years."

Give me an answer to this question, Premier. I ask the Premier: Does he agree

with the statements of his minister? Is he not paying any interest either, and

is he satisfied to risk our future generation? Because, Premier, we certainly

are not.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is important to set the record straight in terms of the Resource Estimates

Committee. It was not shut down by the government members, Mr. Speaker. The

reality of the fact is that it was abused completely by the members of the

Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: The record has shown since, in terms of either they do

not understand what the committee was for or they abused the committee; one of

the two.

Mr. Speaker, it has been a common trait of the Leader of the Opposition to

try to select a few phrases out of context from any one member on this side to

try to make, and make a case that he would like to make. The fact of the matter

is this: We have indicated the basic principles of a deal that we would be

willing to sign with Inco so that we can go ahead and start the Voisey's Bay

project. We have indicated we are willing to have some export for some period of

time provided that it is returned to the Province. It is the concept of a loan

that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador understand completely. We cannot

give the details because we do not have the details.

They understand completely that we will have the equivalent of all of the ore

in Labrador turned into nickel in the Province over the life of the project, and

we will accomplish that. There are not going to be risks for us. When we get the

agreement, you will see, Mr. Speaker, that we will have enforceable types of

language that will show that the loan will be returned; and we will gladly

present it, if we are fortunate enough to get the actual deal. We do not have

the details at this point in time, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, it appears that not only are the Opposition

and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador in the dark about the terms of a

Voisey's Bay deal, but so are most of the members of the Liberal caucus.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier if he has shared the terms of the Voisey's

Bay deal with his own caucus, or is it true that the only people who know the

terms of a proposed deal are himself, the Minister of Finance, and the Minister

of Mines and Energy?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I regret that the Leader of the Opposition did not attribute his last

question to Mr. Corcoran, the reporter from CBC Radio, and we said exactly that

on Friday morning, in his report from the House of Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is this - and this proves how wrong the

Opposition really are - there has not been an update with the Cabinet and the

caucus here because we have not had detailed discussions with Inco now for

several months. What we have laid out, Mr. Speaker, for the people of the

Province and for our Cabinet and caucus are the principles, Mr. Speaker, the

principles that we would like to finalize into legally binding agreements. I do

not know if the Opposition does not understand that. They seem to have a lot of

information that they put out and then find out it is wrong. For example, the

Mines and Energy critic told the public of Newfoundland and Labrador that he had

it on good information that I was on the way to Toronto from Houston to sign the

deal on Friday past. I heard it in Houston. I checked to see if I was supposed

to go to Toronto, because I assumed that he knew what he was talking about.

Again, Mr. Speaker, he did not know what he was talking about.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: There was no meeting. We do not have a deal. We would

love to have a deal and we would love to present it to the people of the

Province but it is not in our hands and in our grasp at this point in time, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I, and members of the Opposition, have been

listening to public comments by hon. members opposite who are indicating

publicly that they are willing to express their own opinions on this deal, if

given the opportunity to do so. The statement was made last week on the Open

Line.

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Premier is, and I would ask him: Why is it

that his caucus and most of his Cabinet ministers do not know the deal? Is it

because he does not trust them, or is it because he knows that if he discloses

it then some of them, in their heart and their conscience, will vote against

this deal at the end of the day?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What the Cabinet and caucus, our full caucus, does know, is that we have been

exploring actively, through the Minister of Mines and Energy, the principles of

a deal that would see some export for a period of time as a loan, a return of

that over the life of the project, and processing to a finished nickel product

in the Province. The details, Mr. Speaker, we do not have. The details are not

finished, so it is not a matter of disclosing. We will disclose it to every

single soul in the Province when we have the information.

Maybe the Leader of the Opposition should restate his position because, as I

understand it, his position is now the position of the former Premier Tobin:

that, under no circumstances, would there ever be any export at any point in

time. That is his position; and the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's says

it is not mine but it might be okay for some to leave, if some people want it

to.

Maybe they would like to talk about which principle they agree with, because

we are dealing with principles. We are trying to get the detail, and

unfortunately for the people of the Province, as I see it, Mr. Speaker, we do

not have the detail and we would like to have it as soon as we possibly can.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, communities and cities and towns and municipalities around our

Province are very concerned about ore leaving the Province, and the refusal to

debate the Voisey's Bay deal before it is final and binding on the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

My final supplementary is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs. I would ask

the minister, as a member of Cabinet: Is he aware of the terms of a deal, the

framework of a deal? And, is he in favour of ore leaving the Province with no

debate in this Legislature?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair doesn't like to interrupt Question Period, but the hon. member

knows that questions must be directed to members who are responsible for a

particular department. Obviously, the question would be out of order on that

basis.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, just for further clarification, the Leader of

the Opposition simply asked the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs a

question regarding municipalities that he is responsible for. I am just looking

for clarification vis--vis a pending agreement with the government, what his

position would be in terms of (inaudible) -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

That is not the understanding that I had of the question that the hon. member

was asking.

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, my

preamble to my question indicated that the

people in municipalities around this Province, towns and communities, are very,

very concerned about the principles of Voisey's Bay ore leaving the Province

and the refusal to debate. So my question, I would suggest to the Speaker,

respectfully so -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member now to get to his question and then the Chair will

determine if it is order or not.

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minister of Municipal Affairs,

as a Member of Cabinet: Is he aware of the terms of the deal, and is he in

favour -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The question is clearly out of order. The hon. member ought to be directing

it to the Minister of Mines and Energy or to the government.

MR. WILLIAMS: Could I finish the question, Mr. Speaker, and could you

then decide -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member now to get to another question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

Minister, the much criticized Hay Report continues to create a high degree of

uncertainty in our Province's health system. Can the minister confirm for us

today that there are discussions ongoing with respect to recommendation number

51, which deals with the consolidation of all the emergency departments in the

City of St. John's, that is: The Janeway, the Health Sciences and St. Clare's?

Will he confirm those discussions are taking place?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, what the minister can in fact confirm is what he

has confirmed repeatedly in this House, that the Hay Report is presently under

view by the St. John's Health Care Corporation, as they should do. It is an

independent study that was done of the operation here in this area. They are now

reviewing that to see if, in fact, there are parts of the Hay Report, the

consultants report, that can be used to help us realize some efficiencies within

the system.

I am sure that is one of the recommendations. So I am sure they are looking

at that, as they are looking at all of the recommendations that are contained in

the report.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the minister can tell this

House why, in fact, such discussions would even be taking place when in 1995,

when the then Chair of the Health Care Corporation made the announcement - I

just want to read what she said at that time. She says: The identity of the

Children's Rehab Centre and the Janeway Health Centre will be preserved

through the development of new space at the Health Sciences. She went on to say,

and this is important: This new space will be dedicated exclusively to children's

services and designed specifically for children. Why should such a discussion be

even going on against that kind of backdrop in 1995?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, in terms of the hon. member's question, I do

not see anything in what he indicated in his

preamble that would support an

argument, in any fact, that we are straying from what was set forward some time

ago.

Mr. Speaker, what I would remind the hon. member, and all hon. members

opposite, the purpose of the Hay Report was to bring in an independent group of

consultants to look at the operation of the Health Care Corporation and to try

to determine if, in fact, there are efficiencies which can be realized; which,

by the way, Mr. Speaker, hon members opposite, for years in this House, have

been rising and saying there are all sorts of efficiencies. They have suggested,

repeatedly, that the operation is not being well run; that there are savings

that could be realized. If they were in our position they would realize those

savings. So, I say to the hon. member, how would he suggest that savings be

realized? How would he suggest that efficiencies be realized if, in fact, we are

not prepared to hold our operations up to the light of day to look at it and see

if, in fact, there are efficiencies which we can realize?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Trinity

North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I am glad we appointed the Child and Youth

Advocate today, because in 1995 this Province concurred with the relocation of

the Janeway because it was going to remain exclusively for children. The then

Minister of Health said at that time: The Janeway represents to the people of

this Province a dedicated pediatric service. It does not, for the first

instance, represent a building. It is not about bricks and mortar but is about

services to children.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: I ask the minister: Can he confirm today, and can he

suggest to us what he plans to do in light of the commitments that were made in

1995, that pediatric services at the Janeway would stand alone, would always be

a dedicated pediatric service? Will he now acknowledge that he should not be

considering consolidating all of the adult services and the pediatric services

in St. John's?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has made a number of references.

First of all, he referenced the Child Advocate, the position that was announced

here today. I am not sure of the connection there but personally, I was quite

pleased to see the announcement made today because I, and my hon. member

opposite, were part of the committee that brought that forward as a

recommendation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: The facility that we presently have, the new Janeway - which,

by the way, I was here in the House as well when that was being debated. I

certainly recall the debate and the tenure of debate here in the House, there

was certainly lots of opposition coming forward from the opposite saying that we

should not be proceeding with that, it was not a priority at this point in time.

Mr. Speaker, to the issue that the hon. member raises; I would suggest to the

hon. member that this minister has not stated or has not stated publicly this is

where we should be going. What he continually references is an independent

study, a report that has been produced looking at the operations of the health

care corporation. The Health Care Corporation for St. John's is doing their

due diligence. They are examining everything that is contained in that report.

Personally, Mr. Speaker, I have more faith in the people who work for the Health

Care Corporation than the hon. Member for Trinity North seems to have.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary

Education.

A little over a year ago, Mr. Speaker, this government committed itself to a

25 per cent reduction in tuition fees for Memorial University students and

initiated the first 10 per cent last year. This years' budget offers another

$3.5 million towards that purpose. I want to know from the minister, is this

government still committed to the delivery on that promise of a 25 per cent

reduction of university tuition for Memorial University students?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary

Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS KELLY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

We certainly were very pleased last year to be able to decrease tuition by 10

per cent after having it frozen for several years. This year we also announced

the equivalent amount of a 10 per cent tuition reduction, but as you know, when

the first tuition reduction was done students at the university wondered if this

was the best way for the money to be spent. So this year when the announcement

was made, we committed that we would sit with the university and with MUNSU to

ensure that this was the way that they wanted to do this.

A meeting, actually, is being held this week to make that final

determination. We are up to 20 per cent now whether it is done exactly like last

year or not. We will know by the end of this week, but this government, as you

know, are very firmly committed towards doing everything that we can to ensure

that our students have a good post-secondary education that is affordable and

accessible.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, final

supplementary.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I believe the minister misrepresents the facts when she suggests that

students opposed a 10 per cent reduction in tuition fees. In fact, I want to

know, is the minister prepared to insist upon a further reduction of 10 per cent

if there is a disagreement between the university itself and students who might

want a further reduction of 10 per cent in student fees? Is the minister

prepared to ensure that this commitment of 25 per cent reduction fees will go

through, or is she not?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary

Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to confirm that I did not say that

students opposed it last year. I said students suggested that they would like to

consider, when we implemented a further reduction, that it would be discussed

with them. We have agreed to that, and we are doing that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Minister of Finance.

The Bank of Montreal last week basically said that Newfoundland and Labrador

is misreporting its deficit. In fact, I quote the bank. The minister, first of

all, has tabled in this House a Budget with a $93 million deficit. The Bank of

Montreal stated: The underlying deficit for this year is approximately $267

million. Furthermore, the bank says: On a consolidated accrual basis the deficit

could very well be much larger.

I want to ask the minister: Why is she falsely reporting our Province's

true deficit?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, this is an excellent opportunity to raise

before the people of the Province that everyday in this House - we are up to

fifty-eight requests from the Opposition - everyday they stand on their feet and

ask for -

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MS J.M. AYLWARD: I will answer the question, I say to the Member from

Kilbride. Relax, I will answer the question.

Fifty-eight requests in this House everyday for paving, for roads in their

district, more paving for roads in their district. I would say to the member

opposite, what he has not said is that the Bank of Montreal also said we would

be leading the country at 6.5 per cent; but he is not interested in that. All he

is interested in, of course, is the deficit. I would say to the member opposite,

this year in this House of Assembly, like every other year, we will table our

Public Accounts Committee which speaks to our accrued deficit. The Budget speaks

to the deficit that we have on Current Account, and it will be no different this

year. Mr. Speaker, the bottom line: there is no clandestine operation; there is

nothing hidden here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the bank said, and I quote: "Despite supercharged growth in

three of the past four years.... Newfoundland's fiscal situation has become

more precarious." It went on to say: "The province has incurred

increasingly larger deficits in each of the past three years and this pattern is

expected to continue for fiscal 2002-03." The bank said clearly:

Newfoundland's fiscal situation is a cause for concern. With the highest debt

level by far of all provinces -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: - the province is in a difficult situation.

I want to ask the minister, Mr. Speaker: Does the minister have any strategy

for managing the finances of our Province other than borrowing?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, all of our strategies have been clearly

outlined in the Budget for the last five years. I say to the member opposite, I

know he is devastated by last week's upgrade by Moody's. He is devastated,

Mr. Speaker, I can tell.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: While the rest of the Province celebrates, he is

devastated. I can also say, Mr. Speaker, that every single -

MR. FITZGERALD: (Inaudible).

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Well, they are equally dancing in the streets on these

questions, I would say to the Member for Bonavista South. I would say, on a very

serious note, that we have been using this strategy for the last four or five

years. Moody's knows about it. Standard and Poor's know about it. They have

recently upgraded us, and we will maintain our strong fiscal administration that

we have that has put us in a position in light of what is happening in our own

Province with our own GDP, also in light of what is happening with the federal

government. Mr. Speaker, we have been upgraded. That means that we can go into

the markets and we are being recognized for the strength of our economy and the

strength of our fiscal administration -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to conclude her answer.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: - as disappointing as that sounds to the member

opposite.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Community

Services: In view of the incident with the Bell Island ferry on Friday past,

which I say that the minister should view as a wake-up call in view of the fact

that the X-ray equipment was broken down and not available for use, will the

minister commit now to updating the terribly rundown diagnostic equipment not

only on Bell Island but in the rest of the Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, the situation that the hon. member refers to,

there is no question. As a matter of fact, I did inquire as to what had happened

there. The information that I have is that, in fact, the X-ray equipment had

some problems. There was a part that was on order.

In terms of the broader question that the hon. member raises, again she is

suggesting that this department and this government is not recognizing the needs

that are out there. Mr. Speaker, nothing could be further from the truth. In

fact, government has been trying, on a repeated basis, year over year, to meet

the many needs that are out there. I would suggest to the hon. member, again in

terms of what we are hearing, on one hand her colleague is up saying that you

are spending too much, and you, hon. member, are standing up and saying we are

not spending enough. I think you should get together and somewhere strike a

balance.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister: What is his plan, in fact, if

he does have a plan, for the updating and upgrading of diagnostic equipment in

this Province? Some of this equipment is as old as twenty-five and thirty years.

What is the minister's plan for the upgrading and updating of this equipment?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, the question that the hon. member raises is

valid, and this is part of the ongoing process that we are engaged in, as a

department and as a government, to try to meet the demands that are out there.

I suggest to the hon. Member for Ferryland, that a plan that we have is

certainly as good as I have heard you propose in the time that you have been in

this House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I say to the hon. member opposite that, in terms

of the needs that are there, these are under constant review; these and the many

others that are out there and the many that we hear being raised on a daily

basis. This government is committed to moving forward to meet the demands that

out there, to make sure that our health care system is sustained and will be

ready and available to deal with the needs as they arise in this Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Question Period has ended.

MR. MATTHEWS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Mines and

Energy.

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I was wont to rise in Question Period when the

hon. the Leader of the Opposition was putting his questions to the Premier, but

I refrained from doing so in the interest of respecting what Question Period is

all about; that is, giving ample time for the Opposition to ask questions and

get good answers, such as they got today and get every day. But I would ask, Mr.

Speaker, whether or not there could be some clarity brought to the issue of

members, such as the Leader of the Opposition did today, in quoting from records

of the House, or from speeches or presentations made by ministers, and quoting

to such an extent out of context that it, in fact, gives almost diametrically

the opposite meaning of what, in fact, was said, if, in fact, the hon. member

accurately quoted what was said.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask this of the Chair: If there is a basis on which a

member could quote without quoting everything, if, in fact, they could be

directed to at least not stop in the middle of a sentence, at the end of a

comma. For greater clarity, I would bring this to your attention so that you

could be better informed on your ruling.

Quoting from the Estimates Committee for Mines and Energy, which was held a

few days ago, the hon. the member today quoted me as saying this: We are not

paying any attention really as to where the concentrate is going to come from in

thirty or thirty-five years' time...

He stopped there. Mr. Speaker, the record indicates that there was a comma

there and it goes on to say this, which is what, in fact, I did say in context:

"...in the sense that there are so many sources of feed around the world

that Inco, as an organization, have control of, that they can bring it in from

any number of sources. They moved it now into Clydach, Wales, from Chile, I

believe, and from Australia."

Mr. Speaker, clearly what I said in committee was that we were not paying

attention as to where the feed might come from because, in the context of the

sources that the company has, and in the context that there is, by virtue of the

Geological Society of America's estimates in 1998, today, 121 years' supply

of nickel in the world, it would not rate very high in our negotiations as to

where, in forty years' time, five years of concentrate would come from.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I raise this as a point of privilege with you

because, while I will not interrupt in Question Period, out of respect for

Question Period, I do think it is important that the people of this Province

understand that on times the people in the Opposition take statements -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his comments.

MR. MATTHEWS: - make propositions that are totally out of context to the

extent that they falsely, or inaccurately, either deliberately or otherwise -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to take his seat.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: To a point of order, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Mines and Energy needs to

learn that when raising a point of order he stick to the point and get to it.

This is not an opportunity for a speech or a soliloquy by the Minister of Mines

and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: But, in view of the fact that he has given one, let me say

- to use his words - let me say for clarity.... It is clear, Mr. Speaker,

members opposite are not, in any way, interested in listening. If they were, in

the interest of -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To use the minister's own words, in the interest of clarity, the quotes

today provided by the Leader of the Opposition come directly from Hansard. They

are exactly what the minister said.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, are members interested in listening? It is

clear they are not.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: It is clear from what the Leader of the Opposition pointed

out today, and he quoted directly from Hansard, the Minister of Mines and Energy

neglected to say directly: no commas, no periods, one full sentence.

"I am satisfied to risk the future generation having to watch feed come

in to run the plant after Voisey's is mined out after thirty years." End

of sentence.

The fact of the matter is, there is no point of order raised by the Minister

of Mines and Energy; and, if he is going to stand on points of order, he should

stick to the point.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I will hear just one quick concluding remark from the hon. minister before I

(inaudible).

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, to add to your level of information, the hon.

member makes a point again, absolutely with great clarity, as to why I made my

original point. When he talks about what I said with respect to feed coming in,

this is what I said, "To watch feed come in for the first time to run a

commercial operation, that has never been our circumstance before. We have

always seen feed go out, concentrate go out and be processed elsewhere. I am

satisfied to risk the future generations having to watch feed come in to run the

plant..." in Voisey's Bay for thirty or forty or fifty years (inaudible)

the Voisey's Bay ore is all used.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair will take the comments that the hon. member has made under

advisement and report at a later date.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present the 2001 Annual Report

of Workplace Health, Safety & Compensation Commission. The report presents

the financial statements and operational activities for the provision for the

year ending December, 2001. Accompanying the annual report is the Commission's

five year 2002-2006 Strategic Plan, which includes measurable goals that

stakeholders can use to chart the Commission's process and outcomes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Government Services Committee have considered the matters to them

referred, and have directed me to report that they have approved without

amendment the Estimates of Expenditure of the following departments and

agencies: Municipal and Provincial Affairs; Newfoundland and Labrador Housing

Corporation; Environment; Works, Services and Transportation; Finance; Public

Service Commission -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: - and Government Services and Lands.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Officers of the House for their

co-operation and, as well, all the members on the committee, especially the

Vice-Chair, the Member for Cape St. Francis, for his congeniality and

co-operation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I give notice, on tomorrow, that the House not

adjourn at 5:30 p.m.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a petition concerning Voisey's Bay. It

is signed by residents of St. John's and Mount Pearl. It is addressed to the

hon. House of Assembly and it reads as follows:

WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO Scott Hand told the company's

shareholders on April 17, 2002, "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay

concentrate to Thompson, Manitoba, and Ontario, as part of an eventual agreement

reached with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and that "We

remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and external feed

will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive for a long

time to come";

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full

disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador;

And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. H. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, the people of Newfoundland and Labrador are

concerned that this Liberal government is moving towards a sellout with Inco on

Voisey's Bay. They want to participate in the discussions. They want to

participate in the decision-making, and they want to know the details before any

final agreement is reached.

Mr. Speaker, when we hear people like Mr. Hand talking, we know that their

priorities are what is best for Inco, and when we hear them say that they intend

to use Newfoundland ore to keep the operations going in Manitoba and in Sudbury,

we have concerns. Mr. Speaker, we are saying here that we want to make sure that

this deal is thoroughly debated, this deal is thoroughly discussed. The people

of Newfoundland and Labrador do not want to be participants at any sellout by

this government on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. We have

had that too much in the past. They want to know, they want to be reassured, and

they want to be confident that before any deal is signed, that they, themselves,

have some

part in knowing about the deal and have some way in which they can

give some level of consent and do that with adequate knowledge. Mr. Speaker, we

know that the Inco giant and the spokespeople there, Scott Hand, the Chief

Executive Officer -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. H. HODDER: - Mr. Speaker, we know he is doing what is best for Inco.

We want this government to do what is best for Newfoundland and Labrador, and do

it before the ink is put on the bottom line.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition as well, and the petition reads:

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative

session convened: the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and

Labrador

WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO Scott Hand told the company's

shareholders on April 17, 2002, "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay

concentrate to Thompson, Manitoba, and Ontario, as part of an eventual agreement

reached with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and that "We

remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and external feed

will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive for a long

time to come";

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full

disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador;

And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, here is another petition from people in this Province asking,

pleading with the government of the day to bring forward a deal, if there is

one, before the House of Assembly so their representatives can stand here in

this Hall and represent them and put forward their views on what that particular

deal is.

You might ask yourselves: Why does it need to be discussed here in the people's

House? Mr. Speaker, we do not need to look back a long time. All we have to do

is look back on the Terms of Union with Canada and see what happens after you

negotiate and sign a deal before you sit down and discuss what terms are in that

particular agreement.

We are going through difficult times in this Province. It is hard times in

the rural areas of the Province, but the people who I talk to, the people who

call me, are saying: Yes, we are in bad times but we are not willing to give

away what we have.

The people in this Province, Mr. Speaker, do not trust this government. The

people in this Province do not trust this Premier. The people in this Province

do not trust the Minister of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: We saw another member, we saw another Premier, sit in

that Chair and go out and win an election by saying that there wouldn't be one

spoonful, not one ounce, of nickel concentrate leave this Province unless it was

fully processed.

Then we saw a new Premier take the seat and say: I am still the Premier. I

don't have to go to the people because we still represent the same mandate

that people gave us in the last election.

I say to you, Mr. Speaker, that there has been a major shift. There is a

major shift in that mandate. There is a major shift in the attitude of that

government as to what happens with Voisey's Bay nickel. Now the fear is that

we are going to be seeing ore leaving this Province, with some promise that

maybe it will return in thirty or thirty-five years' time; some promise that

maybe after we mine the richest part, the ovoid of that particular mine, that

somewhere down the road we will expect Inco to live up to a promise that they

will bring ore back to have it refined here in this Province.

Well, the people do not want to live on a promise any more, Mr. Speaker. The

people in this Province want to know up front what that particular deal is going

to be. The people in this Province are going to demand that there be full

disclosure, and the people they went out and elected back just a few short years

ago will be able to stand here in their seat and represent their views and

opinions here in the House of Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: They deserve nothing less, and I can assure you that

everybody on this side of the House will be here speaking as their

representatives and making sure that we hold government accountable to make sure

that the people in this Province get full and fair benefits from that particular

mine facility in Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a petition today: To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and

Labrador in legislative session convened: the petition of the undersigned

residents of Newfoundland and Labrador.

WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO Scott Hand told the company's

shareholders on April 17,2002 , "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay

concentrate to Thompson, Manitoba, and Ontario, as part of an eventual agreement

reached with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and that "We

remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and external feed

will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive for a long

time to come";

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full

disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador;

And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, the people of the Province are worried; and, in view of the

stand or the opinion that Peter Jones, the CEO of Inco, that the government is

being more flexible than ever in the Voisey's Bay negotiations, and in view of

the fact that he has said publicly: obviously we want to ship concentrate for as

long as possible, to extend the lives of mining operations in Manitoba and

Ontario and keep them productive and competitive for a long time to come. The

people of this Province are worried. It's their ore. This nickel doesn't

belong to the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador; it doesn't belong to the

Minister of Mines and Energy; it doesn't belong to the Minister of Finance.

This ore belongs to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS S. OSBORNE: The people of Newfoundland and Labrador, in 1999, were

asked by the Premier to trust them. Who do you want to negotiate for you? And,

by going to the polls and electing on that mandate, the people put their trust

in that government to do a deal on their behalf. Part of that deal was that not

one spoonful of ore leave this Province. Now we are seeing an about-face, a

complete about-face that this government is buying into for the residents of

Manitoba and Ontario. Is that who the people elected this government to

negotiate for, for the residents of Manitoba and the residents of Ontario to

keep their operations running and competitive for a long time to come?

At no time during the election -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to rise today and present a petition on behalf of the

residents of Newfoundland and Labrador. In fact, all residents on this petition

are residents of the Goulds and Petty Harbour, with one exception, I might add,

just one exception. I recognize constituents of mine in this particular

petition, and some that cross over in the boundary in the Goulds as represented

by myself and the Member for Kilbride here. I think it is very fundamental. This

petition here is addressed to the House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador

in legislative session convened. The petition of the undersigned residents of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: It is a petition, I say to the Minister of Human Resources

and Employment, and it not a petition on behalf of the Catholic Women's

League, that the minister signed himself before.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: I still cannot come to grips with how the Minister of Human

Resources and Employment could be a member of a Catholic Women's League.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, to get back to this very serious issue at hand, it is a

very serious issue. Why wouldn't the Premier of this Province, why wouldn't

government, want Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to have a say, a fundamental

say, into any major agreement?

When we are looking at this agreement, Mr. Speaker, we are looking at

billions of dollars over the life of this agreement. We are looking at a mine

and a mill with a smelter and refinery; we are looking at a multi-billion

project. We do not want to say, when the deal is done, it is too late. We cannot

correct the inequities of the Upper Churchill. We cannot correct them, as much

as we have tried to do it, through the courts. It was ironclad, and we are

seeing Hydro-Quebec show a profit this year of about $1.2 billion. That was

their net profit of $1.2 billion, and we take a measly few million dollars out

of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro; only for the dividends that we are taking

now, and that is money, really, that Hydro has to borrow.

Historically to that - I might add, the government that signed it away was

the Liberal Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. We do not want any major

deal to go through without the scrutiny of this Legislature or the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador. We have an opportunity here in this House to voice

concerns on behalf of our constituents. All forty-eight districts represented by

members in this House, and one soon to be, we hope. It is not represented, there

was no by-election called, but forty-seven at the moment. We feel we are members

who can represent their concerns, listen to them, convey to them aspects of this

particular deal and have it debated here in a public forum.

What is wrong with informing the people of Newfoundland and Labrador about a

deal? Is there something sinister? There seems to be something sinister when you

do not want people to see it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SULLIVAN: In concluding, Mr. Speaker, if the deal is good, the people

in this House and the people of this Province will endorse it and move forward.

If it is not, they won't.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to speak and to present a petition dealing with the issue of the

pending Voisey's Bay agreement.

The petition is certainly in order, according to the rules of the House, and

it is from the people primarily in the Kilbride-Goulds area.

Mr. Speaker, the prayer of the petition, which means the meaning of the

petition, is clear. It says:

WHEREFORE your petitioners - the people have taken the time to sign this, to

read it - urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to bring any proposed

Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for a full disclosure and thorough

debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, in this House just last year, a former member, who was the

Deputy Premier at the time, was questioned on this in a Question Period. He was

asked directly: Will this government bring any proposed agreement to the floor

of the Legislature for thorough analysis and debate before it is final and

binding on the people of the Province? His answered to it was, emphatically:

Yes, we will. That is in the recorded version of Hansard which is the exact

nature of what takes place and what every member says in this Legislature.

The very next day, and I mean the very next day, the Premier of the Province

was back in his seat. He was asked the exact same question: Will any deal on

Voisey's Bay be brought before this Legislature to be analyzed, to be

scrutinized, to be fully debated in a full and open and transparent manner

before it is final and binding on the people of the Province? And his answer

was: No, it will not. A dramatic difference from the day before, from the Deputy

Premier to the Premier of the Province.

I asked a question that people ask of me all the time in the district that I

happen to represent, and that I am privileged to represent. On this specific

issue, they say to me - it happens at the Irving on Saturday morning having a

cup of coffee, with people just milling around. It happens in the Esso Station,

or in the market in Bidgood's and this is the question people ask me: When it

comes to this, why it is that the government is so unwilling to bring it to the

floor of the House? What is it that this government is so afraid of? Do they

have something to hide, because they do not want to bring it in? It is an

legitimate question. I wish I could propose an answer to them, but I do say

this: If any deal is worth its salt, that it meets the litmus test as proposed

by government, as proposed by the commitments that this government made and all

of these members made during the last election -

MR. SPEAKER (Mercer): Order, please!

The member's time is up.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Then they have the majority, and if it meets that litmus test, Mr. Speaker,

then why won't they bring it here? If they have the majority, they have the

majority to carry the day.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will conclude by saying that I will be honoured to present further

petitions because there are many, many more coming in.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, what we are witnessing here today is an attempt by

the Opposition to do through the backdoor what they can't do through the front

door.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. LUSH: Honourable members might like to do the honour of listening to

the point of order. I generally listen to a point of order when it is raised

without any duress of laugher.

First of all, all hon. members know that with a petition there is supposed to

be no debate. Now, anybody looking at this today will see that there is debate.

There is supposed to be no debate with a petition. I refer to our Standing Order

97: "There shall be no debate on a petition, unless the House has it under

consideration." That is unless it is a motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, Oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, it is all the more important - I said the other

day, that we have made the rules. They are not imposed from without. We have

made the rules. We just finished making those rules in 1999, amendment to the

rules. We just finished making them. It is incumbent upon us that we follow them

since we have made them. It is a reason, Mr. Speaker, why there is no debate.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. LUSH: No, we made the rules, I say to the hon. member. It does not

matter, supposing it is 5,000, that the place for a petition - we still have to

follow the rules. The hon. members know - it does not matter, there is a place

for petitions and we have rules to follow. The rules are that there be no

debate. The rules further are, Mr. Speaker, that members keep themselves to the

material allegations of the petition and that they speak to the signatures. But,

no debate, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. LUSH: Hon. members will protest that they are doing everything right.

I ask the people listening, do they sense any difference here than if a motion

is before the House? They are debating and not presenting a petition and

speaking to the material allegations and to the signatures, Mr. Speaker. They

are engaged in full-fledged debate and they know that they are not supposed to

engage in full-fledge debate in presenting a petition.

Mr. Speaker, it is even so much more important, lastly - it is so much more

important because only one person gets a chance to speak to the petition.

Government members cannot respond, therefore the onus is on hon. members to make

sure that they are following the rules because members on this side of the House

cannot respond. Therefore, there is a greater responsibility on members opposite

to make sure that they are observing the rules of the House in presenting a

petition, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: First of all Mr. Speaker, I have never in this House - this

is only the fourth or fifth petition that was presented today. Let me remind all

hon. members of what the fundamental right of a petition is. In Beauchesne

1014.(1) "The right of petitioning the Crown and Parliament for redress

of grievances is acknowledged as a fundamental principle of the constitution and

has been exercised without interruption since 1867."

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: I have two other points to make, Mr. Speaker, in response

to the Government House Leader. Furthermore, it says: petitioning the Crown for

redress of a grievance originated in the time of the 13 th century, I

say to the hon. Government House Leader.

Now let's talk about our own Standing Orders, which are more pertinent. The

Government House Leader just stood in his place and said that - in a way,

attempted to lecture members on this side of the House as private members

presenting petitions from ordinary citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador - we

have a greater responsibility because government members do not have the

opportunity to respond. Mr. Speaker, let me remind him that he was part of the

committee that drafted the new rules on petitions and agreed unanimously with

what we have here right now. What we have here right now, Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: What we have here right now, every one of these petitions

that have been read thus far met the rules as outlined in the Standing Orders

and they meet, most importantly, Standing Order 92, which says this: "Every

Member offering a petition to the House shall confine himself or herself to the

statement of the parties from whom it comes..." - which every member did -

"the number of signatures attached to it and the material allegations it

contains."

Now, "material allegations it contains" is outlined in the prayer.

Where in this petition, it says: That the petitioners are urging the government

to debate this deal through petition fully and openly. If the member opposite

wants to stop that, good luck!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West, to the point of

order?

MR. COLLINS: No, a petition.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair will take the matter of the point of order under

advisement and give a ruling in due course.

The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of a number of residents of

Labrador West. The petition reads:

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland

and Labrador, humbly sheweth;

WHEREAS in 1998 the Province provided funding for four new multiple sclerosis

drug therapies, Betascron, Avonex, Copaxonc and Rebif, under the Newfoundland

and Labrador Prescription Drug Program; and

WHEREAS the Newfoundland and Labrador Prescription Drug Program only provides

medication coverage for seniors under the Senior Citizen's Drug Subsidy

Program and people on income support; and

WHEREAS these drugs are quite expensive; and

WHEREAS all citizens in other Canadian provinces can receive assistance with

the high cost of MS drugs, using co-payment and sliding scale programs, not

limited to social assistance income levels; and

WHEREAS these drugs can significantly improve the quality of life for people

with multiple sclerosis.

We the undersigned petition the House of Assembly to direct the government to

implement a co-payment or sliding scale program for MS drugs so that people who

do not qualify for assistance under the existing programs can get financial

assistance with these high cost drugs, as is the case in other Canadian

provinces, as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, people in this Province who have MS, who are on income support,

receive these drugs under the current program in place in the Province. That is

something that nobody in this Province has anything against. Mr. Speaker, it is

the way it should be. The same applies for the Seniors' Program; that is the

way it should be.

I would like to point out, Mr. Speaker, the unfairness in this whole program

is the fact that people who are in this Province and are working, who do not

have a drug plan, cannot afford these drugs because of their high costs. Also,

Mr. Speaker, people who are working and do have drug plans - some drug plans do

not cover these drugs and others cover them but only to a certain maximum. It is

not a long period of time, Mr. Speaker, before these drugs add up; before a

person's drug prescription plan is maxed out and they can no longer use it for

anything else including MS drugs or any other needs that they or their family

might encounter.

Mr. Speaker, all we are asking, and the people who signed this petition are

asking, is that the Province introduce a system similar to that in other

provinces where people can receive help. People who are working for a living do

not have to spend their RRSPs, Mr. Speaker, do not have to spend any money they

may have saved for their children's education fund, do not have to go without

a lot of the things that they should be able to have as a result of working hard

to provide a living for their family but they should receive help from the

government of the Province whose job is to take care of the citizens in a way

that does not see hardworking people having to devastate themselves and their

families financially in order to receive drugs for a medical condition that they

did not bring on themselves, they did not induce, and that they have no control

over.

So, Mr. Speaker, it is important that government step in, live up their

responsibility and provide the type of coverage that other provinces in this

country provide.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

By leave, just to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave, to clue up.

MR. COLLINS: I just say, Mr. Speaker, that this is an ongoing petition.

My time is up now but I am sure that in the days to come I will have opportunity

to address this issue again, and I will.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, would like to present a petition on behalf of a number of residents

of this part of the Province who feel that it is important, Mr. Speaker, that

this issue of an open debate in this House of Assembly on the issue of Voisey's

Bay be held and that this government - in agreement with the vast majority of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians - will find the need to have an open and public

debate in this hon. House. As other members have, Mr. Speaker, I would just like

to read the wording of the petition:

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative

session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and

Labrador;

WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO, Scott Hand, told the company's

shareholders on April 17, 2002, "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay

concentrate to Thompson [Manitoba], and Ontario, as part of an eventual

agreement reached with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and

that "We remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and

external feed will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive

for a long time to come."

The prayer continues, Mr. Speaker:

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full

disclosure and thorough debate prior - and this is important, Mr. Speaker - to

the signing of any final agreement by the Government of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

It is clear, Mr. Speaker, in just hearing the comments made by my colleagues

on this side of the House that many Newfoundlanders - in fact, I would venture

to state, Mr. Speaker, the vast majority of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians

feel that it is of utmost importance to have this important issue fully

disclosed and debated prior to - and that is key - any agreement that would

ultimately be final and binding on the people of the Province.

Members of the government opposite have stated - in fact, the Premier has

stated that upon conclusion of an agreement he would be prepared to fully debate

and discuss fully, for the benefit of the people of the Province, the details

and the particulars of any such agreement. But, Mr. Speaker, there is an element

of absurdity, I say, to that principle. Obviously, before any agreement is fully

agreed upon, the details and the particulars being fully agreed upon, it is at

that point, prior to, that it is incumbent on the members of this House, all

forty-eight members who represent every single Newfoundlander and Labradorian

living in this Province, on their behalf, it is incumbent that all members fully

debate and discuss and scrutinize those details. I say, Mr. Speaker, the reason

why this is presented -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: By leave, just to conclude, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave to conclude?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: The reason why we feel this is important is that it

represents, Mr. Speaker, what the majority of the people of our Province, those

people whom we represent, are saying to us as individual members. It is for that

reason we feel it is imperative that we present to all members and to all the

people of the Province these petitions in this way.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition also, Mr. Speaker. I can tell the House

that on many, many occasions in this House in the last nine years I have been

very proud to present petitions on roads, certainly I have done that many times

in this House, and on different issues throughout the Province like the

privatization of Hydro. I remember that very well, standing day-after-day in

this House. To present a petition in this House on behalf of the people of the

Province gives them the opportunity, through the elected members, the people's

House, to speak out for them on the floor of the House of Assembly in a

democracy. That is what presenting petitions is all about. If somebody takes the

time to read a petition and sign it, they have every right, through their

elected members, to make sure that that position is known in this hon. House of

Assembly; especially when the petition reads as clear as this one does.

I will read the prayer of the petition:

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full

disclosure and a thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing strange about this petition. There is nothing

that is going to confuse anybody. It is straightforward. Mr. Speaker, I will

tell the hon. members opposite that not just this petition but in any

discussions that you have with - not everybody in this Province, but certainly

the majority that I have spoken with clearly say that if the government of the

day are about to do a deal on another resource of this Province - Mr. Speaker,

there in lies the point, another deal on a resource of this Province because the

track record of this Province on doing good deals on our resources is, to say

the least, not very good. Let's put it that way and be polite today, Mr.

Speaker; not very good. When we look at something like Churchill Falls, when we

look at our fishery, and we can go on and on, Mr. Speaker, because throughout

this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador the track record on good deals on

resources is a dismal attempt to get the right deal for people in this Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador. Since the day that this was announced, since the

day that we found out the discovery of Voisey's Bay, Mr. Speaker, people in

this Province, right away, began to believe that hopefully we would have

something this time that we can do a right deal on.

Mr. Speaker, the point that I will make first today on this petition is if

the deal - and that is the biggest if probably in a long time in this House of

Assembly - is such a good deal than why not debate it here in the people's

House so that each and every member on both sides of the House get a chance to

make their own points? As was said many times in this House, it is not where you

sit in this House but it is where you stand. Everybody will get their chance and

will have their say by standing in their seat - which represents 10,000 to

12,000 people throughout this Province, most seats. They will get a chance to

stand in their place and speak on behalf of the people that they represent.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, I will continue to stand and represent the

people that I represent in my district of Baie Verte.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, stand in my place today to present a petition on behalf of a number

of people in my district. There have been petitions in different areas within

the district and this is from people from Torbay, the Bauline Line area, the

Indian Meal Line and what have you, and the petition is on Voisey's Bay. I

will read the prayer of the petition:

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative

session convened: the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and

Labrador:

WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO Scott Hand told the company's

shareholders on April 17, 2002, "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay

concentrate to Thompson, Manitoba, and Ontario, as part of an eventual agreement

reached with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and that "We

remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and external feed

will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive for a long

time to come";

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for a full

disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador;

And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Jones, the President of Inco, has recently stated that this

Administration is more flexible is negotiating a deal with Voisey's Bay and

the development of Voisey's Bay. He had said: Obviously we want to ship

concentrate for as long as possible.

That is what he said, and that is what they are planning on doing, shipping

concentrate out of this Province to Sudbury, Ontario, and Thompson, Manitoba,

for as long as possible. Not acceptable.

We, as the Official Opposition, will stand in our place here in this House of

Assembly representing the people of the Province in trying to get a deal that is

brought before this House of Assembly before it is signed and binding on the

people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I really do not understand

why this Administration is so opposed to that. Obviously, they are the

government, they have the majority in this House of Assembly, so why won't

they bring it forward, the Premier of the Province? We are hearing that there

are only three people on that side of the House who know the details of this

deal so far. Only three. We are hearing now that there are Cabinet ministers who

are not comfortable with this. We are sure that there have to be backbenchers

over there who cannot support this.

When the Leader of the Opposition was asking questions on this today in the

House of Assembly, you could see the faces on the other side. They are not

comfortable with this. They know in their own heart and soul that constituents

in their district are questioning them. They have to be. We are getting it

everywhere we go. People are asking us: Why won't the Premier bring it

forward? Why?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time is up.

MR. J. BYRNE: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

MR. SPEAKER: No leave.

MR. J. BYRNE: I will have time later on, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, under Standing Order 32, I move that the House

proceed to reading the Orders of the Day.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I obviously understand that you recognized the

Government House Leader and that he has moved to go to Orders of the Day, but

there are other members who have other petitions they would like to present. I

wonder if the Government House Leader, from the kindness of his heart, would

allow the remainder of our members to present their petitions that have been

given to them by members of the general public.

MR. LUSH: There will be lots of time tomorrow. (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

It is moved and seconded, pursuant to Standing Order 32, that we do now move

to Orders of the Day.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Contra-minded, nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

AN HON. MEMBER: Division, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Division has been called.

Division

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

For the purpose of clarification for the Chair, is it the intent to wait the

full ten minutes while the bells are ringing?

Perhaps the two House Leaders could advise the Chair when they are ready. Are

the House Leaders ready?

Those in favour of the motion, please rise.

CLERK: The hon. the Premier; the hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental

Affairs; the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General; the hon. the

Minister of Environment; the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs; Mr. Walsh; the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board; the hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy; the hon. the Minister of

Works, Services and Transportation; the hon. the Minister of Forest Resources

and Agrifoods;

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

CLERK: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services; the hon.

the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture; the hon. the Minister of Tourism,

Culture and Recreation; the hon. the Minister of Youth Services and

Post-Secondary Education and Minister Responsible for the Status of Women; the

hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands; the hon. the Minister of

Labour; the hon. the Minister of Labrador and & Aboriginal Affairs; the hon.

the Minister of Human Resources and Employment; Ms Hodder; Mr. Andersen; Mr.

Sweeney; Mr. Butler.

MR. SPEAKER: Those against the motion, please rise.

CLERK: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition; Mr. Edward Byrne, Mr.

Ottenheimer; Mr. Shelley; Mr. Jack Byrne; Mr. Sullivan; Ms Sheila Osborne; Mr.

Fitzgerald; Mr. Hodder; Mr. Wiseman; Mr. Hunter; Mr. Manning; Mr. Tom Osborne;

Mr. Taylor, Mr. Hedderson; Mr. Young; Mr. Harris; Mr. Collins.

Mr. Speaker, twenty-two ayes and eighteen nays.

MR. SPEAKER: I declare the motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Order 3, Mr. Speaker, the Concurrence Motion, Resource

Committee.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that we do move into the

Concurrence Motion on the Resource Committee.

The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WALSH: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am going to ramble a little bit as we go on today because I intend to be up

more than once as the afternoon carries on.

It was a pleasure for me to serve as Chair of the Resource Estimates

Committee. Indeed, as I had an opportunity to do earlier I want to do once

again, and that is to thank the members who participated: The Member for the

Straits & White Bay North; the Member for Burin-Placentia West; the Member

for Windsor-Springdale; the Member for Port de Grave; the Member for St. John's

South; and, as well, the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

We had an opportunity, Mr. Speaker -

MR. LUSH: (Inaudible).

MR. WALSH: I have just been informed that I should not intend to be

standing all afternoon. I may only be allowed my ten minutes.

AN HON. MEMBER: Good news.

MR. WALSH: Good news, I know.

During our discussions, we had an opportunity to review six departments.

Those being: Fisheries and Aquaculture; Forest Resources and Agrifoods; Mines

and Energy; Tourism, Culture and Recreation; Industry, Trade and Rural

Development and Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs. During the time that we had,

Madam Speaker, we had an opportunity for the ministers to put forward the

positions of their departments for the coming twelve months. It was an

opportunity to discuss the funds being granted by the hon. House, and, indeed,

the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, to each of the departments sent to our

committee. We had an opportunity to review in detail the individual

expenditures. Many of those expenditures included salaries, employee benefits,

professional services, property furnishings being rented, the purchase of

computers, the need for travel during the given fiscal year, and the need to

meet the exacting details of each and every expenditure of the department.

Now, in reviewing some six departments, all of them resource based, if there

was anything that I personally would find some fault with - and I weigh my words

in saying that - is that, when you look at the cost to operate all the services

required in this Province, when you look at the fact that better than forty-five

cents out of every dollar goes to meet our health needs and our education needs,

and when you roll them in together with our other public service needs, in

actual fact close to 85 per cent to 90 per cent of the funds allocated in any

given financial year are to meet the individual needs of the people of the

Province. Barely 10 per cent to 15 per cent of the Budget is actually set aside

for the resource departments that are actually the backbone of generating

industry.

For example, in Fisheries and Aquaculture, one would look at what they are

attempting to do in aquaculture as an example; an emerging, growing aspect of

this Province. The amount of money, because of the demands on the social side of

the ledger, the demands being so great to ensure that our hospitals and our

schools remain in good standing - the fact that my colleague from Topsail, the

Minister for Human Resources and Employment - the needs to meet those areas are

so great that we have to carve out a small amount of money for areas such as

aquaculture. Yet the opportunity is there in the coming years to see employment

grow tenfold. We look at the success stories of the mussel farms down around, I

think it is Belleoram and those areas. We look at the aquacultural industry

taking place down in Bay d'Espoir and the opportunities for growth. We look at

the research and development taking place in the growing and the pursuit of the

cod fishery. We also look at the areas in terms of industrial development, and

industry development. When we look, again, at the small amounts of money that

have been set aside in order for the minister and the officials to reach out, to

be able to attract more businesses to this Province, when we look at the success

that is taking place, in particular, in the IT industry, where some five years

ago, in terms of our call centres alone, there may have been one or two very

small units - today I would suspect there are probably 3,000 to 5,000 people

employed in call centres in Newfoundland; new industries that did not exist five

years ago.

Carbonear, as an example: Some 300 individuals currently working in Carbonear

in a brand new industry. The IT sector in Carbonear alone is beginning to rival

what would have happened in the fishery five, six, seven, eight years ago, with

300 employees.

I say, in terms of the amount of money allocated to the resource sector, I

wish there were more. I wish we had more money to put into Tourism, Culture and

Recreation.

MR. J. BYRNE: Are you asking for more money?

MR. WALSH: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis is wondering if I am

asking for money. My regret is, no, I am not asking for more money. I am trying

to look at the small amounts of money we are able to allocate to developing jobs

and industry in Newfoundland.

I was mentioning Tourism, Culture and Recreation, fast becoming a billion

dollar industry, fast becoming, in terms of our Province, recognized around the

world for our scenery, for our people and for the aspects that we can offer.

Yet, again, the amounts of money that we are able to allocate to develop that

industry are small and insignificant compared to the funds that we have to spend

to maintain the social structure in this Province.

The new Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs has accepted

responsibility for all development in Labrador. Any department now wishing to

carry on business in Labrador has to go through this department. That is a

significant change and a significant new direction for this government, indeed

for any government, the fact that one department would act as a channel for all

other departments. However, what we have been able to see, because of this

dynamic move, is an opportunity for government to channel its resources through

one department. By doing so, we are able to maximize the monies being spent in

Labrador. We are able to maximize the benefits in terms of meeting the needs of

the people of Labrador yet, indeed, meeting what we have to do in terms of our

fiscal responsibilities.

Mines and Energy, an industry that has been growing in its own right. We

heard in Estimates about the areas in Central Newfoundland that have been staked

out as new mining possibilities. I believe there are thousands of hectares of

land - the exact number escapes me at this moment - that have been carved out

for potential new gold mines, for potential new mines, be it copper or other

kinds. Yet again, another department whose Budget is kept very tight, very tight

in terms of the monies we have been able to allocate to it.

The response that we received during our Estimates with respect to the

forthrightness of the ministers, the willingness of the officials to be able to

answer clearly and distinctly all questions asked of them - indeed, if a

question was technical enough that the information was not available, a

commitment was made in every case to ensure that that information would flow to

the member who asked the question.

So, what did we accomplish during the Estimates debates? Well, we were able

to deal with each individual department to ensure that each individual

department acquired and was granted, in committee, the funds that it would need

to see it through the next fiscal year. There was an opportunity also to debate

in detail the actual numbers and the issues that reflected last year's Budget,

and, in many aspects, a number of issues from the previous year's Budget were

actually lower this year, lower in actual expenditures than had been

anticipated. All departments came in virtually on budget. I think that is

something that we also can be proud of in terms of the management of the funds

that have been made available by the people of the Province to the departments

in question.

I believe, when I look at the discussions that had to take place on the

resource side, that we were ever mindful of the needs of the other sides of the

equation, the needs in terms of the Social Services Committee, and the needs in

terms of the Government Services Committee.

As I said in my beginning

preamble, the fact that barely 10 per cent and a

little, maybe maximum 15 per cent, of all the funds that this g