Manitoba Hansard — 5 October 2022 (Sitting 69, 42nd Legislature, 4th Session)

42-4-69

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVI No. 69 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, October 5, 2022 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon.

Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan, Hon. Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon.

Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Kirkfield Park

2957 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, October 5, 2022 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosp erity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowl edge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. W e acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and the intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partner- ship with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration.

Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 241–The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act (Licence Plates for MMIWG2S Awareness) Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member from Thompson, that Bill 241, The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act (Licence Plates for MMIWG2S Awareness), now be read a first time. Motion presented. Mrs. Smith: It's clear that more needs to be done to protect Indigenous women, girls and two- spirited people in Manitoba.

This bill would allow for a speciality licence plate to be purchased that has a graphic of a red hand or a red dress and the abbreviation MMIWG2S, meaning missing and murdered Indigenous girls –women, girls and two - spirit. This licence plate would help to raise awareness and inspire action to be taken. As well, the money collected will benefit the children left behind of these women and girls and two- spirited people who have been murdered or have gone missing in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, just tabling the revised sequence of consideration for departmental Estimates. Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Economic Development, Investment and Trade): Madam Speaker, I'm pleased to table the Manitoba Development Cor poration Annual Report for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2022. Madam Speaker: And pursuant to rule 83(3), I'm pleased to table a letter from the House leaders docu- menting the standing com mittee membership com- position for this Legislature. And also, in accordance with

section 19 of The Legislative Building Centennial Restoration and Preservation Act, I am pleased to table the long -term restoration and preservation plan, which includes the current annual imple mentation plans for the fiscal years 2022-2023 to 2029-2030. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS World Teachers' Day Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): As the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning, I rise today to observe and celebrate World Teachers' Day.

World Teachers' Day is celebrated internationally on October 5th to commemorate and acknowledge the important contribution of the teaching profession to all societies. Our government and the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) supports this worldwide acknow ledgement of teachers and has proclaimed its thoughtful observance to all citizens by a proclamation. October 5th is a day devoted to appreciating teachers and is an opportunity to recognize the en - during contributions they make every day to education

2958 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 and development in Manitoba classrooms. Promoting teachers helps ensure that this profession, so vital to the healthy function of society, receives its due respect. Beyond thanking teachers, our government has increased funding to the K-to-12 education system by $460 million this school year, 2022- 2023.

This in- cludes a $51 -million increase in annual operating funding and $77 million in additional funding to assist with financial pressures; $22 million to strengthen students' learning and supports and $2 million to expand the Elders and Knowledge Keepers in Schools Initiative. Our government has also dedicated $308 million in capital funding to build new schools and renovate existing ones. In addition, we as Manitobans are Canadian leaders in teacher remuneration.

I encourage all Manitobans to celebrate and re- spect the work teachers undertake in classrooms every day and to recognize their efforts in delivering quality education to the youth of our great province, Madam Speaker. Today, we are joined in the gallery by Manitoba Teachers' Society's president, Mr. James Bedford, and Vice-President Nathan Martindale and members of the board: Sonja Blank, Carla Bouchard, Lindsay Brown, Chris Darazsi, Jay Ewert, Kristen Fallis, Kent McPherson, Cathy Pellizzaro, Cathy Pleskach, Joel Swaan and Cynthia Taylor.

Please join me in thanking Manitoba teachers for their service to Manitoba students. Madam Speaker: And I would indicate that the re - quired 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings had been provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): October 5 is World Teachers' Day, a day when we celebrate educators and the incredible work they do to help educate the next generation of Manitobans. Teachers are an invaluable part of our society. They work every day to ensure that our children are receiving the sup - port they need to be their very best.

We all know that the last few years have not been easy for schools, but whether they were on Zoom, hybrid, socially distanced, teachers have persevered and found creative ways to continue connecting, educating, and inspiring our Manitoba kids. * (13:40) In addition to celebrating the incredible people who become teachers, today is also a day to reflect on how we can best support them by ensuring they have the resources needed to provide the education every child deserves.

Nurturing the next generation of Manitobans is no easy task and the government needs to rise to the occasion, en sure proper funding and support for students, teachers and families. Teachers deserve, Madam Speaker, a real partner in the provincial government, one that provides access to the pro- fessional services and resources they need to help their students thrive. Manitoba teachers give their best every day to support their students, yet they don't receive the same level of support and commit ment from this govern - ment.

Since taking office, this PC government has continually cut and underfunded education and failed to adequately support public schools. In 2016, it's well noted that the provincial portion of funding was at 62.4 per cent. It's now down to 56.4 per cent, Madam Speaker. This World Teachers' Day, this government needs to commit to putting the needs of students and teachers at the top of their education agenda and stop the cuts now. Madam Speaker, on behalf of our NDP caucus, I would like to recognize all the teachers in Manitoba for their dedication and perseverance, and thank them for everything that they do. Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to respond to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: I am glad to have the opportunity to rise today in recognition of World Teachers' Day. Let me begin by first sharing how grateful we are for everyone who is working in our education system, and I specifically want to thank MTS, Manitoba Teachers' Society, for their efforts in helping all of us MLAs better understand the current concerns in schools across Manitoba.

Madam Speaker, it is evident how those in our school systems continue to go above and beyond. We have heard examples of how teachers having to purchase own –their o wn school supplies for their classrooms out of their own pockets. And in terms of teacher capacity and retention, we have heard about

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2959 how the number of teachers exiting and retiring are exceeding those actually entering our school systems. Madam Speaker, it is clear how funding has fallen behind in our schools despite cost of living and stu- dent growth. Funding is desperately needed for: mental health, for both students and teachers; transportation, especially with the price of gas being as high as it is; and EAL studies; new student fees; and just basic human resources.

Madam Speaker, I am grateful that the govern - ment gave some funding to the Child Nutrition Council, but a one-time lump sum of money is just a band-aid solution. Everyone here knows the president of MTS, James Bedford–and I am paraphrasing something he said lot more elegantly than I am–but public education is a 13-year commitment–that's a length of a student's education. So, a one-year solution–in this case, a one- year nutrition grant program –it just doesn't make sense.

There are a lot of other needs, including long-term grant programs, higher achiever opportunities, French studies; these also need to be addressed . However, I am glad to have the opportunity to express these needs today on World Teachers' Day. Lastly, Madam Speaker, I am looking forward to committee tonight, to hearing from the public presenters about Bill 208, The Teachers' Pensions Amendment Act that would allow for representation for over the 10,000 RTAM members here in Manitoba. Thank you, Madam Speaker. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Manitoba Ag Ex Mr.

Len Isleifson (Brandon East): While I stand here today and welcome everybody back into the House, I would also like to invite everyone to visit Brandon for the upcoming Manitoba Ag Ex. From October 26 to 29th, the largest all -breeds cattle show in Manitoba, attracting exhibitors and visitors from Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, will be under way. Ag Ex has a tremendous experi - ence in hosting major shows such as the National Trust Simmental Sale and the national Charolais sale, both of which are major draws for cattle producers right 'acrost' our country.

Along with breed-specific shows, Ag Ex hosts a Jackpot Heifer Show, a Bull Show and a Junior Show, culminating in the Supreme Breed Extravaganza, the champions of which go on to the Canadian Western Agribition held in Regina, Saskatchewan. Madam Speaker, Manitoba Ag Ex includes programs such as Moo Mania. This event offers an educational, on -hands opportunity f or grades 4 and 5 students to experience livestock, and learn about good husbandry practices.

Manitoba Ag Ex is focused on the cattle industry, displaying the best of the breeds as well as an opportunity for youth to both show and to attend educational events. New this year are exhibitors from the Manitoba Sheep Association. You will witness demonstrations by the world record holder for lamb shearing. Pauline Bolay of Fairford, Manitoba, sheared 510 lambs in eight hours, beating out the previous record of 507, smashing her own personal best of 412. You will also be entertained with demonstrations from the stock dog show, plus see the top breeds from the Manitoba sheep and lamb producers.

Madam Speaker, I welcome you, all my col - leagues and all Manitobans t o join myself at the Manitoba Ag Ex to learn about the life of a cow, learn the benefits of beef and the business of beef. Come take a tour of the cattle barns and have a great opportunity to participate in a mock cattle show and auction. I look forward to seeing you all there. Thank you. Some Honourable Members: Moo. Madam Speaker: Order. I hate to say, but I don't think mooing is allowed in here. UCN Trades Program for Indigenous Women Ms.

Amanda Lathlin (The Pas -Kameesak): I'm pleased to be able to stand here today to celebrate one of the programs offered by Uni versity College of the North. I was once the repre sentative workforce co-ordinator at this institution. I was directly involved in planning some of the educational and career oppor- tunities that would be offered to help families thrive in northern Manitoba. The University College of the North previously offered a home builder certificate program. However, they have recently begun separately offering this program with a dedi cated Indigenous women focus.

Thanks to col laboration with the Opaskwayak Cree Nation office of em ployment and training, the program is offered at no cost to the students. This

2960 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 program provides resi dential construction industry - ready skills to those admitted as well as the opportun- ity not only to build a home but ultimately gain ex- posure to the many trades and career paths associated with the residential construction industry in the home building process. The effort to bring Indigenous women int o con- struction trades is essential for the future of con - struction trades and is also essential for Indigenous women to have an equal oppor tunity to work in our communities.

Offering a dedi cated program such as this offers an op portunity for appl icants to avoid barriers of gender discrimination, remote training, lack of 'esposure' and lack of experience. UCN has been a driving force in bringing access to technical training to the North and an immense benefit for our communities in the North and as it has provided access to essential training for workers looking to start or empower their career. This step of including programs for Indigenous woman seeks to provide employment equity in this field that has long been difficult for them to break into or get ahead in.

Please join me in celebrating this program's efforts in advancing Indigenous women in con- structive trades as well as the currently enrolled students on their new journey. Ekosi. Powerline Initiative in Notre Dame MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madam Speaker, I am very humbled to represent the con stit- uents of Notre Dame. My com munity has raised a number of concerns, including rising crime, violence and addiction. Our com munity has multiple abandoned properties and a growing problem with vacant properties and garbage. Of course, our families want safe and clean com- munities.

That's why I have organized and partici - pated in three com munity consul tations regarding safety so far for the Daniel McIntyre and Sargent Park communities. More consul tations are coming up for small-business owners for West Alexander and Weston-Brooklands neighbourhoods. As a community we have decided that we would like to address these problems. To do so, in September we started the No tre Dame Powerline initiative, modelling it after the North Point Douglas Powerline begun 14 years ago by community organizers like Sel Burrows.

Our goal is to empower residents and help keep our neighbourhoods safe and clean. Notre Dame Powerline is vo lunteer-run and works in part nership with city bylaw en forcement and the police com mu- nity support unit and fire prevention services. In North Point Douglas's Powerline's first three years of existence, this com munity group helped to address 32 properties that were causing a great deal of problems.

Community members are encouraged to please phone Notre Dame Powerline at 204- 588-7111 and text or leave a message for their community concerns. * (13:50) We will do our part to make our communities safe and clean. The City depart ments that we are dealing with are doing their part, as well. But at this time, we are not asking. We are demanding that this Province does their part as well. The PC government has had two terms.

They still are not doing their part with resources to take action on a com prehensive housing strategy, a com prehen- sive mental health and addiction strategy or enough prevention resources to keep families together. Our community is demanding co-operation from this government– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Is there leave to allow the member to complete her statement? An Honourable Member: No. Madam Speaker: Leave has been denied. Marian Jaworski and Irek Lemans Mr.

Shannon Martin (McPhillips): It gives me great pleasure to recognize regional director for the Canadian Polish Congress in central Canada, Irek Lemans, editor of Radio Polonia Winnipeg, for their strong vision and efforts in promoting and strength- ening the Polish culture and media in Manitoba. Marian Jaworski serving the Polish community in Manitoba for over 40 years, and 22 of those years he has held a president's position at the Polish Gymnastic Association Sokół Winnipeg. As this current time, he is a regional director for the Canadian Polish Congress for central Canada.

Irek Lemans has also served not only as a volunteer and member of the Polish gymnastic–Sokół Winnipeg but also a manager of the Sokół community

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2961 soccer club and as the radio editor for Radio Polonia, CKJS 810 AM or FM 92.7, the Polish voic e in Manitoba for the last 26 years. This May, I travelled to Poland to witness and support Marian Jaworski and Irek Lemans being honoured with the Pro Patria Medal by the Government of Poland and the highest order of honour presented by the Polish Gymna stic Association Sokół at the Museum of Independence in Warsaw, Poland, for their continuing service to the Polish community abroad.

We also had an opportunity to meet and greet newly arrived-by-train Ukrainian refugees to Poland, as well as meeting refugees and the many non-govern- ment agencies on both sides of the Ukrainian- Polish border. Marian and Irek have not forgotten their Polish roots and its wonderful culture. Poland has not forgotten Marian and Irek. Congratulations to Marian Jaworski and Irek Lemans. You make both Poland and Canada very proud to call you their own. Please join me in thanking Marian Jaworski and Irek Lemans for their continued vision and hard work on behalf of the Polish community in Manitoba.

As well, a special thank you to the citizens and people of Poland for their unwavering support of Ukraine. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Marny Campbell Hon. Jon Reyes (Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration): Madam Speaker, there are many untold stories of great community members in our province, why we are truly called friendly Manitoba. Well, I am about to share one of them. Today I have the great pleasure of honouring Waverley constituent, Ms. Marny Campbell. Marny truly has a heart of gold. I know we know many who have these attributes.

She has volunteered non-stop in helping newcomers settle into Manitoba since the start of the Ukrainian war. Her family's immigration is a story of bravery, sacrifice and belief in bettering the lives of future generations. In 1911, Fred, a prisoner of war, escaped from occupied Ukraine with his wife, Anastasia. They fled with only their clothes on their backs to a country called Canada. There they built a life based on hard work, un- wavering faith, love of their culture and much respect for their new homeland. Three generations later, their great-granddaughter, Marny, was born.

While they would never have the opportunity to meet, she carried within her gratitude for their sacrifices and vowed to honour their legacy of loving kindnes s. Fast-forward to February 24th, 2022; Russia invaded Ukraine, displacing millions of Ukrainians. Many of the displaced now call Manitoba and Canada home. Marny has volunteered every day since the invasion, offering information on immigration, health care and finding the newcomers employment while co -ordinating donations of furniture, food, clothing and lending a helping hand wherever it was needed.

She has assisted several families settle in Manitoba, setting up apartments from scratch right down to the final details such as a bassinet and baby items for a Ukrainian mom that is due to deliver any day. Her goal is to make everyone she encounters feel loved and welcomed, recognizing that each immi - gration story is a part of a legacy that can inspire generations. Madam Speaker, I ask my colleagues to join me in honouring Ms. Marny Campbell for her dedication to service in developing the lives of newcomers and new immigrants through her hard work and com - munity service. Thank you, Marny.

Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I have some guests that I would like to introduce to you. I would like to draw the attention of all honour - able members to the public gallery where we have with us today Bob and Ruth Norton, who are the guests of the honour able member of The Pas - Kameesak (Ms. Lathlin). On behalf of all honour able members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Education System Funding Levels Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, I'd be remiss if I did not recognize the member for Lakeside (Mr.

Eichler), who announced yesterday he is not going to run in the next provincial election.

2962 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 I know the member has been an MLA for many years, and in addition to repre senting Lakeside and bringing forward those issues here, he also brought his own unique sartorial sense to the Chamber. So, I want to take this opportunity to recognize the member. You know–[interjection] We know it's World Teachers' Day, Madam Speaker, and yet each and every year that the PCs have been in power, they've cut the prov incial share of education funding. Will the Premier finally stop the cuts to edu ca- tion? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, I, too, want to thank the member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler) for his incredible contribution to the people of Manitoba, and we wish him well after the next election. We wish him well. And he and his family–[interjection] Madam Speaker, I, too, want to say happy World Teachers' Day. I w ant to thank those members from MTS who are here with us in the gallery. I want to thank all of our teachers here in the province of Manitoba.

I think, Madam Speaker, they have what is one of the most important jobs in the world, if not the most important job in the world, and that is educating our kids. So, I want to thank all of the teachers in Manitoba for the incredible contribution they make for our kids. And I'll address the litany of false accusations in the next–after the next

preamble, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Education Property Tax Corporate Rebate Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, we know this Premier's stance when it comes to public education. She seconded bill 64, and she supported Brian Pallister's cuts to education year after year after year. And she continues them to this day. She's continuing Mr. Pallister's agenda of cuts to our schools. Not only that, though.

She's taking revenue meant to fund education and she's using those dollars to send cheques to billionaires, Madam Speaker. Millions of dollars worth of cheques being sent to billionaires. That's what they stand for. On this side, we're against it. Will the Premier stop sending cheques to billion- aires and instead use those dollars to invest in our schools? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, I will never apologize, and members on this side of the House will never apologize, for listening to Manitobans and taking action on their behalf.

Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Op position is just wrong. Historic additional $460 million in educa- tion funding overall this year alone. That's more money into the education system, not less. * (14:00) I know members opposite have difficulty with math, Madam Speaker, but I'll tell you, $460 million is a significant investment in our education system. We will continue to invest in the education of our children. Madam Speake r: The honourable Leader of the Opposition, on a final supplementary. School Nutrition Program Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the Premier seconded bill 64, and she's made class sizes bigger.

She also has a backbencher that she stands with who said that feedi ng hungry kids with nutritional programs in schools was a, quote, bad idea. That's what they stand for on that side. Feeding hungry kids is a bad idea. They'd prefer to send cheques to billionaires. On this side of the House, we think helping kids who need a little bit of food during the school day is a good idea, so that they can learn along with all the other children in their classrooms. A universally ac - cessible meal program is a good idea.

When is the Premier going to stop cutting cheques for billionaires and instead use those resources to help feed hungry kids in our schools? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition seems to be fixated on old bills that used to be before the Manitoba Legislature. The fact of the matter is that bill was taken off the table, and we will continue to do–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –what's in the best interest of the education of our children, Madam Speaker. Now, the Leader of the Opposi tion mentioned something very im portant: the nutrition of our kids.

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2963 And that's why our Minister of Education (Mr. Ewasko) was out very recently and announcing a $2.5- million increase to the nutrition program in schools, Madam Speaker. So, Madam Speaker, when it comes to t he education and nutrition of our kids, we will take no lessons from the members opposite. Madam Speaker: Order. The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Prairie Mountain Health Region Nurse Vacancy Rates Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, the value of just one of the cheques they will mail to a billionaire this year is worth more than the entirety of that announcement. We know that health care is also in a shameful crisis right now caused by the cuts of this PC govern- ment. In Westman, we see just how bad the situation is. Dauphin has a 39 per cent nurse vacancy rate. Grandview has a 57 per cent nurse vacancy rate. I'll table the documents for the Premier, generated by her government, that prove the case.

People in the Parkland need better access to health care closer to home, not more cuts from the Premier. Why has the Premier failed the people of the Parkland, including those who live in Dauphin and Grandview? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question, because it gives me an oppor tunity to put some facts on the record. The fact of the matter is that our Diag nostic and Surgical Recovery Task Force has made sig nificant progress over the last little while.

Thirty -five initia- tives that are operational that have yielded good, positive results for all Manitobans, all across this great province of ours, Madam Speaker, no matter where they live. We've reduced the endoscopy wait -list by 877. That's a 50 per cent increase in the number of pro - cedures completed, Madam Speaker. The Maples master services agreement is com - pleted and operational, and it adds 300 gynecological procedures per year. The first five women were seen just last week, Madam Speaker. Now, the Leader of the Opposi tion has said that he won't contract out for those services.

That's 300 women who need those surgeries that would be denied by the Leader of the Opposition. Madam Spea ker: The honourable Leader of the Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, on this World Teachers' Day, Manitobans are concerned that this gov ernment is going to do with the education system what the PCs have already done to the health-care system. And when we look at the proof –the documents that I just tabled –in the health -care system, what's going on in Westman right now, what's going on in the Parkland, well, Roblin has a 40 per cent nurse vacancy rate.

Reston, it's also at 40 per cent. Killarney, it's more than 52 per cent. More than half of the nursing jobs are sitting empty in the constit - uency represented by the MLA for Turtle Mountain. There's a crisis in health care, in the Westman across the Parkland. And this Pr emier and their gov- ernment refuses to recognize it. We know that it was caused by PC cuts. When will they finally stop the cuts to health care and start investing in nurses? Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, I again thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question because it gives me the opportunity to talk about health care in Westman, in Eastman, in s outhman, in northern Manitoba and in the City of Winnipeg. In all of these areas, we have increased the num - ber of surgical procedures to help reduce the backlogs in the province of Manitoba. That is helping every - body in all areas of Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: Madam Speaker, nobody believes the PCs when it comes to health care because Manitobans have never been waiting longer to get the surgeries that they need. When we look at Western Manitoba, when we look at–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –health-care hub for the Westman in Brandon, which is also part of our province-wide ICU system, there are a ton of nurse vacancies there as well–18 per cent of nursing positions at Brandon's

2964 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 hospital are sitting empty right now, as we speak, Madam Speaker. We know we need more nurses in the Westman. We need more nurses in Reston–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –and Dauphin and Grandview and, yes, in Brandon as well. Will the Premier stop the cuts and start to invest in nurses in the Prairie Mountain Health Region and across Manitoba? Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, we are investing in nurses in the province of Manitoba.

And we also –I want to take this op portunity to thank those nurses for the work that they do to help patients in our hospital system and right across this province, Madam Speaker, for the in credible work that they do for their patients. Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Op position knows that we have announced and we are moving on 400 new seats, nursing seats, in the province of Manitoba. That's 400 more that–the NDP, by the way, voted against that in this Chamber. They voted against it, shame on them.

The fact of the matter is that the members oppo - site have no plan, no vision for the future of the province when it comes to health care, Madam Speaker. We will take–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –no lessons from the members opposite. Prairie Mountain Health Region Cost for Private Agency Nurses MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, the use of private agencies is acceler ating under the PCs. Earlier this week, I shared new figures from Southern Region, which spent $3.4 million in just half a year. Now, today, I'd like to table five months of data for Prairie Region.

Between February and June, Prairie Region spent $10 million. At that rate, they are on pace to spend $24 million this year. That also means that one out of every four nurses is going–one out of every four dollars for nurses is going to private agencies. That's not the right approach, Madam Speaker. What is the minister doing to address the growing overreliance on for-profit, private agencies? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): Nursing staff challenges are an issue that are not unique to Manitoba. It's been seen across the country and, sadly, globally, Madam Speaker.

But our gov ernment is addressing this issue, something the members opposite never did– $19.5 million to add 259 nurse -training seats, 'an di- tional' 30 training seats at Red River College to bring that number to 289. * (14:10) We are on track to meet our target as a gov ern- ment of 400 new nursing education seats. We continue to add dollars to the University College of the North. And I was so pleased last October to join the college of nursing for their pinning session, where we welcomed 150 new nurses. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question.

MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, $10 million in the Prairie Mountain region on private agencies in just five months. One out of every four dollar s for nurses is going to private agencies. The use of private agencies is accelerating in Prairie Mountain and across the province. Meanwhile, there's a 24 per cent vacancy in Brandon for nurses in the public system. Hospitals cannot keep up, and the waits are higher than they have ever been. I know they don't like to hear facts, Madam Speaker, but the minister has to explain this to Manitobans.

Will she explain her gov ernment's approach and why it means more and more for-profit, private agencies in Manitoba health care? Ms. Gordon: My mandate as the Minister of Health is to ensure all Manitobans receive health -care services that they need in this province, Madam Speaker. That is why during the height of the pandemic when the Red Cross nurses offered– kindly offered–to come and help us here in Manitoba, we said yes, and they said, send them home.

We are going to continue to support the college of nursing, Red River College, University College of the North, all the advanced education facilities and insti- tutions across our province that are working with us on solutions to add nurses to the health-care system. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary.

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2965 MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, the minister explains her ma ndate, but she won't explain to Manitobans why they're not fulfilling that mandate. The Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) has said that she's actively contracting out health care. And that's precisely what they've done with private agency nurses. Their approach i s undermining public health care in Manitoba. Nurses in the public system – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: –are being mandated like never before. Meanwhile, private agencies are provi ding more money and more flexibility.

This is eroding the public health -care system in Manitoba, Madam Speaker. Prairie Mountain is on track–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: –to spend $24 million on private agencies this year. Why is the minister in creasingly overrelying on for-profit, private agencies? Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Order. Ms. Gordon: The president of the Manitoba Nurses Union recently stated publicly that members opposite were told of the nursing shortage that we would be ex- periencing now. They sa t on their hands, Madam Speaker.

When the member opposite talks about – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –the individuals who are–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Ms. Gordon: They don't want Manitobans to know about their record; that is what they will run on, and we will run on our record of making achievements in the health -care system, Madam Speaker. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: Madam Speaker, our record: 50 per cent reduction in the number of endoscopy wait-list individuals; 300 gynecological procedures for women in this province–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Member's time has expired.

I think I'm going to have to remind members that banging on the desk has been requested that we not do it. I sent a memo to all members, and it comes from our translation people, because it is quite traumatic on their eardrums when we are banging on a desk that is highly sensitive to sound. So, I'm going to ask all members–that is a practice that I've asked ev erybody to support not doing it, in order to support our interpreters, our translators. Public Education Funding Levels Programming and Staffing Concerns Mr.

Nello Altomare (Transcona): It is World Teachers' Day, and what better way to thank a teacher than to promise them there'll be no more cuts to public education. Unfortunately, that's not a promise that this government can keep. Brandon was forced to cut 10 positions –as well, Madam Speaker, cut speech language pathology, psychology and reading recovery: necessary services for our kids. Seven Oaks had to cut educators as well. It's time for a new approach. When will the minister stop the cuts to our public schools? Hon.

Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I'd like to thank my friend, the member from Transcona, for this opportun- ity to stand today on World Teachers' Day and absolutely show the evidence to the gallery –and thanks to the Manitoba Teachers' Society –that the member just can't help being partisan, Madam Speaker.

The fact is that today, on World Teachers' Day, we take the time to recog nize not only here in Manitoba, not only here in Canada, but across the world, on how much we as citizens value the day -in, the day–each and every day the hard wor k that our educators put to support the Manitoba students not only here in Manitoba but across the world, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Transcona, on a sup- plementary question. Mr. Altomare: Over the last three years, the Province's core operating funding for public education has gone down by $36 million.

The Province's share of education expenditure has also fallen. It's well documented in the FRAMEs. The result, Madam Speaker: Winnipeg School Division was forced to cut

2966 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 full-day kindergarten. Seven Oaks was also forced to cut important programs for their kids. The minister wants to celebrate World Teachers' Day, but all his government has done is cut and under- mine public schools. When will they stop the cuts, Madam Speaker, and adequately support our public schools? Mr. Ewasko: As I stand and want to thank and con- gratulate the teachers for all their hard work, this member continues to get up and put false information on the record, Madam Speaker.

Just this year alone, in '22-23, we're talking about a historical funding increase to education of $460 million. The infor mation that this member's putting on the record, it–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Ewasko: –couldn't be more than false, Madam Speaker. Seven Oaks School Division, 9.7 per cent increase over the last two years; River East Transcona–the place that he used to teach – 12.2 per cent increase over the last two years.

Madam Speaker, I can go on and on and on, and I will talk, in my next answer, about some addi tional things of the misinformation that this– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Transcona, on a final supplementary. Mr. Altomare: Madam Speaker, teachers need more supports in the classroom, but that's not what they're getting from this gov ernment. It has not been delivered at all.

School leadership over whelmingly told the Auditor General that they don't have faith that this government will take appropriate action to address the long-term impacts of the pandemic, and we're feeling it right now: turnover rates that are unpre cedented, people leaving the system, and now we're having dif- ficulties filling our positions. That's because this gov- ernment cut $36 million from core operating funding. This minister knows that. We have to do some thing about that. Will they change course, Madam Speaker, and reverse their cuts to our public schools? Mr.

Ewasko: Oh, Madam Speaker, I think the NDP are goin g to have rebrand to M -squared party: misleading Manitobans party. They're –so much misinformation coming out of that member's mouth, it's unbelievable. * (14:20) Again, literacy and numeracy skills in Manitoba– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Ewasko: –that's what parents want. They want to increase those skills for our Manitoba students. So, on page 4, which the member fails to reference–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Ewasko: –page 4 on the FRAME report says, a 65 point –a 67.5 pe r cent increase in funding– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Ewasko: –this year alone, that doesn't include the education property tax coming off, which is also being put into the education world. Madam Speaker, the member from Transcona doesn't know that more is more– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. [interjection] Order. I'm not sure teachers would be impressed with the kind of heckling and yelling that goes on here.

I'm afraid I can't even hear some of the questions and answers that are being put forward, so I'm going to ask for everybody's co-operation, please. I need to be able to hear and I think a respectful debate is probably something that is taught in schools, and I would like to see some thing like that happen here, that we can respectfully listen to a question, respectfully listen to an answer. People might not like all of it, but that's how democracy works and that's how debate works.

People have their own opinions, but that does not give you the authority to try to shout somebody down like we're hearing, and making fun and laughing of people. I think that's really showing a high disregard for democracy. So, I'm going to ask everybody's co- operation, please. Mental Health and Addiction Treatment Request for Safe Consumption Site Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Yesterday, we received notice that five years after the VIRGO

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2967 report, this gov ernment has still not gotten off the runway. Later this –earlier this year, they provided a company $450,000 i n the minister's own words, to identify the priority areas needed to address the mental health and addictions. Madam Speaker, why isn't the minister priori - tizing action on the things that the com munity have called for for such a long time, like consumption sites? Why won't she do that today and help save Manitobans' lives? Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Acting Minister of Mental Health and Community Wellness): Our government recognizes that there is a growing concern for people that are ex periencing a ddictions and mental health issues in the com munity. That is why we created a dedicated depart ment. A dedi cated depart ment that has come forward with 47 initiatives since 2019 at the price of $62 million to help with mental health and addictions initiatives.

That is why we have also invested nearly $50 million in combined addictions treatment and housing for people who are exper iencing homeless- ness or are precariously housed or unsheltered, so that they can get the services and the supports tha t they need when they need it. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Smith: The supple mentary Estimates for the department of mental health and addiction shows that spending has gone down over the last year by $6 million.

Meanwhile, the minister is spending $450,000 to identify the priority areas needed to address mental health and addictions. This top -heavy de partment has to spend nearly half a million dollars to set priorities five years after the VIRGO report was released? Why won't the minister get on it and address the needs of the community today? Lives are being lost and this government is sitting on their hands. We need a consumption site today. Ms.

Squires: This year alone, our government in - vested $17 million in a road map to help provide the supports to people, meet them where they're at and help them –ensure that they've got the supports that they need–supports including $500,000 to address six crisis stabilization beds at the Crisis Response Centre. That was last year's investment. One point nine million dollars in capital funding to Home First Winnipeg, $35,000 to the Tamarack Recovery Centre, $185,000 to the NorWest Youth Hub, money for crisis counselling.

We've also esta - blished crisis hotlines and are helping to ensure that not only do people get the services that they need, but they can actually get access to infor mation about services that will be available for them when they need them. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mrs. Smith: Five years have passed since the VIRGO report was delivered. The problems identified in that report have only gotten worse under this government. We need real action, action that turns back the tide.

The minister is spending nearly half a million dollars on a private company, in the minister's own words, to identify the priority areas. Action on mental health and addictions was needed five years ago. Why won't this minister deliver for Manitobans dealing with the challenges of mental health and addictions? Open a safe consump tion site today. Families are losing loved ones while this government does nothing. Ms. Squires: Well, Madam Speaker, the member references that help was needed fiv e years ago.

I would argue with her that help was needed 15 years ago, 20 years ago, when they were in office, and they did absolutely nothing. They didn't set up a de partment responsible for helping–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Squires: –people with mental health issues and addictions and wellness. They did not set up a road map towards recovery. They did not have a com pre- hensive solution for people exper iencing addictions. They did not have RAAM clinics in the community.

They tu rned a blind eye towards the growing crisis, and our gov ernment is committed to meeting people where they're at and getting them the services that the NDP never offered. Economic Review of Bipole III and Keeyask Implementation of Recommendations Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): Madam Speaker, this government wasted nearly $2.5 million on the Brad Wall report.

2968 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 Just like this government, Brad Wall covered up key evidence to come to a conclusion he wanted. Key evidence such as a–$5 billion in revenu e, which he and this government tried to keep secret. Despite the obvious flaws with this report, this government ordered Manitoba Hydro to implement every single one of its 51 recommendations. I'll table the directive now. Can the minister confirm whether his government is still committed to implementing all of the 51 recom- mendations? Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): The member is just wrong, actually. The government's commitment is to respond to the 51 recommendations. It's no wonder that the member and his party don't like the expert report on Keeyask and bipole – [interjection] You can hear it now because they try to shout down the responses. You know that they don't like this expert report on bipole and Keeyask because it's a damning report of NDP's failures again and again to disclose, to be honest, to be accountable to Manitobans. Projects that went $4 billion over budget; they knew. They did not disclose.

They went around the channels that were there for the safety and the protec- tion of the ratepayers, and we'll make sure that we respond to the report. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a supplementary question. Mr. Sala: The minister calls the author of the report an expert. W e know him as a highly partisan ex-Conservative-premier of Saskatchewan. This gov ernment directed Manitoba Hydro to implement all–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Sala: –51 recommendations laid out in the Wall report, yet Brad Wall's recommendations were based off a $5 -billion cover -up.

These recom mendations included selling off non- core assets, contracting out and P3s. This government obviously supports these recom- mendations as they directed Hydro to implement all 51 of them. So, I ask the minister, which non- core asset do they plan on selling off first? Mr. Friesen: Well, we know that the opposi tion doesn't like this expert report on bipole and Keeyask because, of course, it says extremely critical things.

It concludes extremel y critical things of the NDP's failure to lead, failure to disclose cost overruns that they said wouldn't occur and obligations now on ratepayers that they said would not happen. We know that it was a litany of failures, but more than that, now the the me mber is failing because he doesn't understand history, and that member should understand it was actually a PC gov ernment in the late '90s that repatriated Centra Gas into the hydro utility, brought it inside, strengthened it and provided those services to Manitoba.

It was a PC gov ernment that brought Centra Gas in. [interjection] * (14:30) Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for St. James, on a final supplementary. Mr. Sala: Brad Wall was paid nearly $2.5 million to tell this government exactly what they wanted to hear. He ignored $5 billion in revenue to arrive at 51 deeply flawed recom mendations with this gov ernment has publicly committed to imple menting, recom men- dations that included selling off non- core assets such as Centra Gas. Manitobans want all aspects of Manitoba Hydro to remain public and they deserve to know what this government's intentions are.

Will the minister share with this House which non-core assets they plan on selling off first? Mr. Friesen: Well, it's the NDP way: if you can't go to facts, they go to fear. And that's what they always do. But, of course, what they truly do is fear this report because this report, after thousands of inter - views, after the collection of thousands of pertinent documents–I'm quite sure the member's never read the export report on bipole and Keeyask because if he had read it, he would understand that this collated and carefully detailed report concludes that there have to be protections in place for ratepayers.

The PUB needs a better mandate, going forward. Hydro needs to complete an integrated resource plan. The government is working on its energy policy. All of these things are strengthening in order to provide the conditions in which Manitobans won't get fooled again by an NDP party.

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2969 Refugee Settlement Services Education Supports Needed Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): We had the pleasure today of meeting with advocates for the Manitoba Teachers' Society today to hear their concerns. It needs to be recognized t hat of all the public systems that showed the most resilience, K-to-12 public education was outstanding in provi - ding and advocating for care and support of our children in the middle of a very tough pandemic. We are all delighted to see refugees arriv ing and settling in our schools; my son has six new Ukrainian classmates.

But we're concerned about the lack of funding to help them settle in, especially with language. Some school divisions have hundreds of new students, which is like adding an entirel y new school with no new funding. We knew this was coming, and I was wondering if the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) can assure us that funding will be in place to make sure that refugee kids get the extra support they and teachers need in Manitoba schools, because it is not there now. Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I'd like to thank the Leader of the Liberal Party for the question.

In regards to supporting Ukrainian children and students right here in Manitoba, we'r e working quite closely with our education partners all across this great province of ours, Madam Speaker. We're making sure that those schools and school divisions and those local communities are keeping track of how many students are coming in. As the member knows, September 30th is usually that date when schools start to share their enrolment, and so we're looking at those numbers. We're taking a look at how we can continue to support our Ukrainian students right here in Manitoba, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. French Immersion Teacher Shortage Opportunities for Immigrants Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): Tout comme dans les soins de santé et d'autre professions, il y a de nombreuses pénuries d'enseignants en immersion française, même si la demande est énorme. Et tout comme pour les pénuries dans d'autre professions, on nous dit qu'il y beaucoup de gens au Manitoba qui sont formés et qualifiés pour enseigner le français dans les écoles en ce moment, mais leurs titres de compétence ne sont pas reconnus.

Je peux certainement garantir que la qualité du français chez les nouveaux arrivants à Saint-Boniface est au-delà de l'excellence. Nous gaspillons les talents et les possibilités de gens alors que les enfants n'ont pas d'enseignants. Le gouv ernement verra -t-il à ce que les enseignants francophones puissent travailler au Manitoba? Translation Just as in health care and for other professions, there are significant shortages of French immersion teachers, in spite of an enormous demand.

And just as is the case for shortages in other professions, we are told that there are, right now in Manitoba, many people who are trained and qualified to teach French in schools. However, thes e people's professional qualifications are not recognized. I can guarantee that the quality of French spoken by newcomers in St. Boniface is beyond excellent. We are wasting these people's talents and opportunities when there are children who do not have teachers. Will the gov ernment ensure that French- speaking teachers can work in Manitoba? Hon.

Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I thank the member again, the Leader of the Liberal Party for this question in regards to French language teachers here in Manitoba. We know that for years and years and years, going back to before I got into this wonderful profession as a legislator, Madam Speaker, we were short on French language teachers, whether that's français or f ranco- phone communities. We–that's why our gov ernment are not waiting for some kind of magical anything. We actually increased the education seats at Université de Saint-Boniface for French language teachers.

We're also looking at when new teachers are coming into the province, on how we can take a look at their credentials to make sure that our schools and our francophone com munities are being taught by French-speaking teachers, Madam Speaker. Teaching Profession-Shortage Concerns Post-Secondary Education Enrolment Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): There are a shortage of teachers in our school systems. There

2970 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 aren't enough substitutes to cover classes. Teachers are being forced to postpone their own professional development. And currently, here in Manitoba, teachers are exiting and retiring faster than teachers are entering the school system. Madam Speaker, all of this is affecting the attention and the opportunities that students should be receiving. What is this gov ernment doing to en- courage post -secondary edu cation enrolment and to review accreditation for those who could be teaching? Hon.

Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I ap preciate the question coming from my friend and colleague from the Liberal Party on workforce for education. Again, Madam Speaker, this is not something that is germane just to Manitoba; this is happening all across this great country of ours. And we know that we're working with our education partners not only to look at credentials, but also some recruitment. And retention, as she mentions that the retention piece, we need to retain our great teachers here.

As I was saying earlier, that prior to getting into this role, we were having substitute teachers come from the general public. And so we've streamlined the temporary teaching permit as well to help with the situation, but that's why we're working with our post- secondary– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Hearing Aids Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: A hearing aid is a battery -powered electronic device designed to improve an individual's ability to perceive sound. Worn in or behind a person's ear, they make some sounds louder, helping people hear better when it's quiet and when it's noisy. People who suffer hearing loss, whether due to aging, illness, employment or accident, not only lose the ability to communicate effectively with friends, family or colleagues, they also can experience unemployment, social isolation and struggles with mental health.

Hearing loss can also impact the safety of an individual with hearing loss, as it affects the ability to hear cars coming, safety alarms, call 911, et cetera. A global commission on the state of the research for dementia care and prevention released an update consensus report in July 2020, identifying 12 key risk factors for dementia and cognitive decline. The strongest risk factor that was indicated was hearing loss. It was calculated that up to 8 per cent of the total number of dementia cases could potentially be avoided with management of hearing loss.

Hearing aids are therefore essential to the mental health and wellbeing of Manitobans, especially to those at significant risk of dementia, Alzheimer's, a disorder of the brain affecting cognition in the ever - growing senior population. Audiologists are health -care professio nals who help patients decide which kind of hearing aid will work best for them, based on the type of hearing loss, patient's age and ability to manage small devices, lifestyle and ability to afford. The cost of hearing aids can be prohibitive to many Ma nitobans, depending on their income and circumstances.

Hearing aids cost on average $995 to $4,000 per ear, and many professionals say the hearing aids only work at their best for five years. Manitoba residents under the age of 18 who require a hearing aid, are prescribed by an 'otiologist', or, audiologist, will receive either an 80 per cent reimbursement from Manitoba Health of a fixed amount for an analog device, up to a maximum of $500 per ear, or 80 per cent of a fixed amount for a digital or analog programmable device, up to a maximum of $1,800.

However, this reimbursement is not available to Manitobans who need the device who are over the age of 18, which will result in financial hardships for many young people entering the workforce, students and families. In addition, seniors representing 14.3 per cent of Manitoba's population are not eligible for reimbursement, despite being the group most likely in need of a hearing aid. Most insurance companies only provide a min - imal partial cost of a hearin g aid, and many Manitobans, especially retired persons, old- age pensioners and other low-income earners, do not have access to health insurance plans.

The Province of Quebec's hearing devices program covers all costs–[interjection]

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2971 Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Lamoureux: –related to hearing aids and assist- ant listening devices, including the purchase, repair and replacement. Alberta offers subsidies to all seniors 65 and over and lower income adults 18 to 64 once every five years. New Brunswick provides coverage for the pur - chase and maintenance not covered by other agencies or private health insurance plans, as well as assistance for those whom the purchase would cause financial hardship.

Manitobans over age 18 are only eligible for sup- port for hearing aids if they are receiving Employment and Income Assist ance, and the reimbursement only provides a maximum of $500 an ear. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider hearing loss as a medical treatment under Manitoba Health; and To urge the provincial government to provide income-based coverage for hearing aids to all who need them, as hearing has been proven to be essential to Manitobans' cognitive, mental and social health and wellbeing. This has been signed by many Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Louise Bridge Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition as is follows:

(1) Over 25,000 vehicles per day cross the Louise Bridge, which has served as a vital link for vehicular traffic between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown for the last 111 years.

(2) The current structure will undoubtedly be declared unsafe in a few years as it has deteriorated extensively, becoming functionally obsolete, subject to more frequent unplanned repairs and cannot be widened to accommodate future traffic capacity.

(3) As far back as 2008, the City of Winnipeg has studied where the new re placement bridge should be situated.

(4) After including the bridge replacement in the City's five-year capital budget forecast in 2009, the new bridge became a short-term construction priority for the City–in the City's transportation master plan of 2011.

(5) City capital and budget plans identified re - placement of the Louise Bridge on a site just east of the bridge and expropriated homes there on the south side of Nairn Avenue in anticipation of a 2015 start.

(6) In 2014, the new City adminis tration did not make use of available federal infrastructure funds.

(7) The new Louise Bridge Com mittee began its campaign to demand a new bridge and its surveys confirmed residents wanted a new bridge beside the current bridge, with the old bridge kept open for local traffic.

(8) The NDP provincial government signalled in– its firm commit ment to partner with the City on replacing the Louise Bridge in its 2015 Throne Speech. Unfor tunately, prov incial infrastructure initiatives, such as the new Louise bridge, came to a halt with the election of the Progressive Conservative government in 2016.

(9) More recently, the City tethered the Louise Bridge replacement issue to its new trans portation master plan and eastern corridor project. Its recom- mendations have now identified the location of the new Louise bridge to be placed just to the west of the current bridge, not to the east as originally proposed. The City expropriation process has begun.

(10) The Premier has a duty to direct the prov - incial government to provide financial assistance to the City so it can complete this long -overdue, vital link to northeast Winnipeg and Transcona. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier to financially assist the City of Winnipeg on building this three-lane bridge in each direction to maintain this vital link between northeast Winnipeg, Transcona and the downtown.

(2) To urge the provincial government to recom- mend that the City of Winnipeg keep the old bridge fully open to traffic while the new bridge is under con- struction.

(3) To urge the provincial government to consider the feasibility of keeping it open for activ e transpor- tation in the future.

2972 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans. Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) The Bibliothèque Régionale Jolys Regional Library, JRL, has been served notice by the Red River Valley School Division, RRVSD, to vacate the premises during–currently situated in the auditorium of École Héritage school, ÉHS, by March 31st, 2023.

(2) The auditorium was originally built in the 1960s by renowned Manitoba architect Étienne Gaboury, and it has been home to JRL for 48 years.

(3) A photo of the auditorium captioned the regional library is published in a 2008 documentary titled heritage buildings in RM De Salaberry and St. Pierre Jolys. It is marked as an im portant modern building that could attain the status of a heritage site.

(4) JRL and RRVSD have flourished from a naturally–a mutually beneficial memorandu m of understanding for 54 years.

(5) Their shared collection boasts over 50,000 books and has the fourth largest collection of French-language literature in rural Manitoba.

(6) Students that are bused in from the neigh- bouring municipalities that do not have public libraries, such as Niverville, Grunthal and Kleefeld, are provided with free access to public library in its fourth largest collection of French books in rural Manitoba during the school year. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To request the Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Gov ernment Services to consider granting the auditorium to the JRL by March 1st, 2023.

(2) To request the Minister of Education to recog- nize the value that JRL provides to the student popu- lation of ÉHS, as well as the com munities of the Village of St. Pierre Jolys and the RM of De Salaberry.

(3) The–to request the Minister of Education and the Minister of Francophone Affairs to recognize that an MOU between the RRV SD and JRL is mutually, financially and culturally beneficial.

(4) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to recog nize the heritage potential of this important building and its status in the community.

(5) To request the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage to prevent any renovations to the auditorium that would destroy and devalue the architectural integrity of the building. And this petition has been signed by many Manitobans. Provincial Road 224 Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Prov incial Road 224 serves Peguis First Nation, Fisher River Cree Nation and surrounding communities. The road is in nee d of substan tial repairs.

(2) The road is in–has been in poor condition for years and has numer ous potholes, uneven driving surfaces and extremely narrow shoulders.

(3) Due to recent popula tion growth in the area, there has been increased vehicle and pedestrian use of Provincial Road 224.

(4) Without repair, Prov incial Road 224 will continue to pose a hazard to the many Manitobans who use it regularly.

(5) Concerned Manitobans are requesting that Provincial Road 224 be obsessed–be assessed and repaired urgently to improve safety for its users. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Infrastructure to complete an assessment of Provincial Road 224 and implement the appropriate repairs using pu blic funds as quickly as possible. This petition has been signed by many, many fine Manitobans. Ekosi. * (14:50) Home-Care Services MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2973 To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Home -care workers in Manitoba provide skilled and com passionate care that helps better the quality of life for thousands of Manitobans.

(2) Robust home -care services are proven to reduce the strain on health services and demand for hospital beds.

(3) Home care reduces the demand for long-term- care beds as it allows people to continue living in their own space.

(4) Studies show that a third of the 200,000 Canadians living in long- term-care homes could stay home with proper home-care support.

(5) Investing in home care saves money, as daily services cost half the price of a long-term-care bed and one-seventh the daily cost of a hospital bed.

(6) The provincial government's cuts to home care in Manitoba has resulted in chronic staffing issues that caused the WRHA to cancel 27,000 home -care appointments in the month of April 2022 alone.

(7) Many clients in Manitoba only receive home- care service once a day,

whereas countries such as Denmark offer up to six visits a day.

(8) Home-care workers in Manitoba are paid poor wages, are offered little benefits, lack sick time and are overworked, resulting in dif ficulty retaining and attracting workers.

(9) Home-care workers have been without a contract since 2017, due to this prov incial gov ern- ment's interference in labour negotiations.

(10) Investing in home care is a proactive approach that would save the Province millions of dollars as well as allow more Manitobans to age in place. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health and the Minister of Seniors and Long- Term Care to imme diately increase investment on the home-care services so that home-care workers can be paid a fair wage and clients can receive the level of service they require. This has been signed by Rosalinda Ganaree [phonetic], Jean Biden [phonetic] , Eden Abagra [phonetic] and many other Manitobans. Hearing Aids Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: A hearing aid is a battery -powered electronic device designed to improve an individual's ability to perceive sound. Worn in or behind a person's ear, they make some sounds louder, helping people hear better when it's quiet and when it's noisy.

People who suffer hearing loss, whether due to aging, illness, employment or accident, not only lose the ability to communicate effectively with friends, family or colleagues, they also can experience un - employment, social isolation and struggles with mental health. Hearing loss can also impact the safety of an individual with hearing loss, as it affects the ability to hear cars coming, safety alarms, call 911, et cetera.

A global commission on the state of the research for dementia care and prevention released an updated consensus report in July 2020, identifying 12 key risk factors for dementia and cognitive decline. T he strongest risk factor was–that was indicated was hearing loss. It was calculated that up to 8 per cent of the total number of dementia cases could potentially be avoided with management of hearing loss.

Hearing aids are therefore essential to the mental health and well -being of Manitobans, especially to those at significant risk of dementia, Alzheimer's, a disorder of the brain affecting cognition in the ever - growing senior population. Audiologists are health -care professionals who help patients decid e which kind of hearing aid will work best for them, based on the type of hearing loss, patient's age and ability to manage small devices, lifestyle and ability to afford. The cost of hearing aids can be prohibitive to many Manitobans, depending on their income and circumstances.

Hearing aids cost on average $995 to $4,000 per ear, and many professionals say the hearing aids only work at their best for five years. Manitoba residents under the age of 18 who require a hearing aid, as prescribed by an otola ryn- gologist or audiologist, will receive either an 80 per cent reimbursement from Manitoba Health of a fixed amount for an analog device, up to a maximum of $500 per ear, or 80 per cent of a fixed amount for a

2974 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 digital or analog programmable device, up to a max- imum of $1,800. However, this reimbursement is not available to Manitobans who need the device who are over the age of 18, which will result in financial hardship for many young people entering the workforce, students and families. In addition, se niors representing 14.3 per cent of Manitoba's population are not eligible for reimbursement, despite being the group most likely in need of a hearing aid.

Most insurance companies only provide a minimal partial cost of a hearing aid, and many Manitobans, especially retired persons, old- age pen- sioners and other low -income earners do not have access to health insurance plans. The Province of Quebec's hearing devices pro- gram covers all costs related to hearing aids and assistive listening devices, includ ing the purchase, repair and replacement. Alberta offers subsidies to all seniors 65 and over and low-income adults 18 to 64 once every five years.

New Brunswick provides coverage for the pur - chase and maintenance not covered by other agencies or private health insurance plans, as well as assistance for those for whom the purchase would cause financial hardship. Manitobans over age 18 are only eligible for sup- port for hearing aids if they are receiving Employment and Income Assist ance, and the reimbu rsement only provides a maximum of $500 an ear. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to consider hearing loss as a medical treatment under Manitoba Health. And,

(2) To urge the provincial government to provide income-based coverage for hearing aids to all who need them, as hearing has been proven to be essential to Manitoba's cognitive, mental and social health and well-being. This is signed by Edgar Baril, Jeanette Dumaine, Simone Leclaire and many, many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Further petitions? If no, grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Before announcing gov ernment busi ness, I'd like to announce that, in addition to the meetings previously announced, the Standing Com mittee on Social and Economic Dev elopment will meet, if necessary, on Thursday, October 13th, 2022, at 6 p.m. to consider–to continue consideration of Bill 36, The Manitoba Hydr o Amendment and Public Utilities Board Amendment Act.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that, in addition to the meetings previously announced, the Standing Com mittee on Social and Economic Development will meet, if necessary, on Thursday, October 13th, 2022, at 6 p.m. to continue consid era- tion of Bill 36, The Manitoba Hydro Amendment and Public Utilities Board Amendment Act. * * * Mr. Goertzen: Could you please resolve the House into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced tha t the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. * (15:00) COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 SENIORS AND LONG-TERM CARE * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson ( Dennis Smook): Is the minister ready to proceed? An Honourable Member: Yes, I am, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chairperson: Will the Com mittee of Supply please come to order. Before we begin, I have a leave request for this

section of the Committee of Supply. Is there leave to allow the opposition to sit on the other side of the table to allow them to see the screens that are situated in the room? [Agreed] And that's what we shall do.

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2975 This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates o f the De partment of Seniors and Long-Term Care. Does the honour able minister have an opening statement? Hon. Scott Johnston (Minister of Seniors and Long-Term Care): Yes, I do, and thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chairperson: The honourable minister, you may proceed with your statement. Mr. Johnston: On behalf of the De partment of Seniors and Long- Term Care, I am very pleased to present the financial Estimates for the 2022 -23 fiscal year.

The Department of Seniors and Long-Term Care was established in January 2022 to provide steward - ship over the implementation of the Stevenson review recommendations as well as the imple mentation of a new seniors stretch –strategy, so that aging Manitobans are– Mr. Chairperson: Excuse me, Minister. Would it be possible for you to get a headset because the Hansard staff is having a difficult time hearing you, and we are in the room here as well. Mr. Johnston: I can do that, Mr. Chairman, if you just give me a moment. Mr.

Chairperson: Okay. * (15:10) The hon ourable Minister of Seniors and Long- Term Care, are you ready to go again? Mr. Johnston: Can you hear me, Mr. Chair? Mr. Chairperson: Much better. Mr. Johnston: I'm not sure exactly where I left off, so please bear with me. The Department of Seniors and Long-Term Care was established in January 2022 to provide steward - ship over the implementation of the Stevenson review recommendations as well as the imple mentation of a new seniors strategy so that aging Manitobans are able to stay in their own homes and com munities as long as it is safe to do so.

The COVID -19 pandemic exposed gaps in our long-term-care system here in Manitoba and across Canada and drew our focus to seniors who were not receiving the dignified care that they deserve. These gaps are reflected in the external gov ernment com - missioned review led by Dr. Lynn Stevenson.

The review resulted in 17 recommendations at the facility level as well as the systems level, including but not limited to ensuring the staffing levels and services provided are appropriate to the complexity of current and future residents and reviewing and 'streamlying'-lining the licence standards for personal- care homes to ensure currency and applicability to the changing needs of residents. The proposed 2022- 23 core budget for Seniors and Long- Term Care reflects an expenditure of fifty-four million point–$54.3 million and 14 staff years–FTEs. The

summary budget is set at $54.4 million. This year's budget includes investments in the fol- lowing: $32 million for the imple mentation of the recommendations of the Stevenson review, such as following key areas already announced, enhanced–en- hancement of infection prevention and control within long-term-care sector, additional full-time equivalent housekeeping staff, im provements in emergency, continual and situational aware with personal -care homes, through enhanced Internet connections to patient and operational infor mation and com muni- cation technology.

Our government also is reviewing the recommen- dations of a work group charged with the development of staffing recommendations for increased staffing at bedside; $20 million to support the implementation of early actions on a new seniors strategy after an ex - tensive en gagement and con sultation process with Manitobans to provide advice for design and an action plan of the seniors strategy and to recommend priority investments; $1 million for salaries and benefits for new staff and other consul tations, project and other operating increases.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you very much for the opportunity to say a few words on this year's Estimates. I would also like to acknowledge my colleagues in other de partments, such as Health, for their partnership and support in this im portant work for Manitobans. I would now be happy to answer any questions that you may have. I would, at this time, like to intro duce my staff, Mr. Chairman. I have with me Bernadette Preun, my Deputy Minis ter of Seniors and Long- Term Care; Sandra Henault, assist ant deputy minister and executive financial officer, Manitoba Health, Mental

2976 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 Health and Community Wellness and Seniors and long term; and Laura Morrison, executive director, Seniors and Long-Term Care. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Does the critic from the official op position have an opening statement? MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): I'm pleased to put a few words on the record for Estimates of the Department of Seniors and Long-Term Care. As Manitobans know, we've been very concerned about this parti cular area of gov ernment.

The pan- demic exposed the gaps in the system of care for many of the most vul nerable people in our provi nce. And while we've seen the impacts of these gaps across the country, certainly here in Manitoba, unfortunately, we saw a disproportionate number of heartbreaking out - comes for seniors in our province and their families.

I have several questions in this area, including the number of beds that are currently available, when standards for personal-care homes may change, how much of the federal funds allocated for this area in Manitoba have been spent and how much addi tional staff has been added to per sonal-care homes in Manitoba. And this is one area certainly everyone, I think, across the province is acutely aware needs to be addressed. I'm hopeful that this will be a productive session, and it will be a session that advances the concerns of seniors, their families and communities. Thank you.

And with me today I'm joined by Hannah, our staff, one of our staff in our caucus, Hannah Drudge. Mr. Chairperson: Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a depart ment in the Commit tee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 34.1(a), contained in resolution 34.1.

According to our rule 78(16), during the consid - eration of de partmental Estimates, questioning for each depart ment shall proceed in a global manner, with questions put separately on all resolu tions once the official opposition critic indicates that questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. MLA Asagwara: I'd like to start by asking if the minister can tell us the names of all of his political staff. Mr. Johnston: Yes, my political staff is Larissa Gobert as well as Danielle Orvis. Mr. Chairman, did you hear my answer? Mr.

Chairperson: Minister, whenever you're ready, if you could please raise your arm so I could acknowl- edge you so that Hansard could turn you on. Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I assure you, after we work out these kinks, we'll start rolling very smoothly. My apologies. My political staff are Larissa Gobert as well as Danielle Orvis. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that infor - mation. Can the minister advise us how many vacancies are there currently in the minister's de partment and what is the vacancy rate? Mr.

Johnston: At this time there are no vacancies and no vacancy rates. * (15:20) MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response and that infor mation, and I think that's a good thing that there's no vacancies in the department. We see the challenges that's been creating in other departments. On page 24 of the Estimates book, it shows that there are six staff plus the minister assigned to executive and seven staff that work in the Department of Seniors and Long-Term Care. That's 50 per cent of this area of government assigned to the executive–or rather, to executive staff. Can the minister explain that for us?

Mr. Johnston: In answer to the question, there is myself as the executive. I have two political staff, two office assistants, one deputy and one deputy assistant. We did –we were resourced with policy units to support the Stevenson review as well as the ongoing seniors strategy. Otherwise, we are supported through the Department of Health resources. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. I noticed on page 25 under equity–sorry, page 25 of the supplement to Estimates of expenditure, under the Equity and Diversity Benchmarks, that there are a number of equity-seeking groups identified: women,

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2977 Indigenous peoples, visible minorities –which I don't love the language of, but that's what's being used–and persons with dis abilities. But there is an absence of 2S–so, two-spirit LGBTTQ folks and gender -diverse people. So, I'm wondering, given, you know, that's it's here, it is being –there are benchmarks that are id en- tified in terms of having that represented within the department, but there's a notable absence of an equity- seeking group that is significant.

I'm wondering if the minister can provide some clarity as to whether or not, in fact, that information is being requested of folks and is a part of this equity and diversity benchmark strategy. Was it an oversight or, in fact, is that information not being gathered, and are two-spirit and LGBTTQIA folks and gender -diverse peoples not going to be reflect ed in the equity and diversity benchmarks? Mr. Johnston: I thank the member for the question. I would like to thank the member for bringing to our attention the ambiguity in the documentation that she references. I have taken note of that.

In regards to her question, when we –when there is– Mr. Chairperson: If I could interrupt the minister for a second to address the critic with the proper gender pronoun. Mr. Johnston: I said the member. Mr. Chairperson: They, the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara). Mr. Johnston: Oh. My apologies, no disrespect intended. Thank the member from Union Station for the question and bringing forward the issue of documen- tation that we've made note of. As well, in answer to the member from Union Station's question, under recruitment, we would have asked to identify if they wish.

MLA Asagwara: Can the minister clarify, then, will gender diverse and two -spirited LGBTTQIA em- ployees be represented by way of data in the equity and diversity benchmarks? * (15:30) Obviously, I encourage the minister to ensure that, in terms of documentation, that this is corrected moving forward, but can he clarify whether or not his response means that they will, in fact, be reflected in the benchmarks. Mr. Johnston: The short answer is yes. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for his short answer.

I ap preciate it, and, again, I hope that, you know, these folks are represented, moving forward, in documentation. A lot of folks who, perhaps, look at these –this data, this infor mation that the gov ernment is pur - porting to be collecting, deserve to see themselves and their identities reflected in the efforts the government says it's making. Next question is on page 31 of the Estimates book. It says that, and I quote: "No statutes have been assigned to the Minister." End quote.

So, if the minister has no legal responsibilities by way of statutes, can the minister, then, provide an overview of what his responsibilities are? Thank you. Mr. Johnston: I just wanted to just r eiterate the mandate and responsi bilities that were given to this department by the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson), which were focused in really two major, major areas.

First, as I had indicated in my earlier comments, the Stevenson review, which was initia ted by the Premier when she was minister of Health, and when she became Premier was quite adamant that these particular needs of seniors are to be met by establish- ing our department. And so, the Stevenson review basically com - mitted the Manitoba government to over $31 million in funding to support the implementation of 17 recom- mendations.

And over–of that 31, over $15 million in initial funding will support the enhancing of infection prevention and control, including 50 infection control staff, more than 200 full -time housekeeping staff, 44 allied health staffing–and I know that certainly the member from Union Station is very support ive of allied staff. I remember her making a statement in the– Mr. Chairperson: I must interrupt the minister again and remind him as a –when referring to the MLA for Union Station, members should use the pronouns they or them. I thank you for your respectful co-operation. Mr.

Johnston: Again, certainly no offence intended, and I hope to be able to not make those mistakes when referring–MLA Union Station.

2978 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 So, again, back to what the Stevenson review really was laid out, as far as my mandate goes, certainly was to enhance infection protection and con- trol, including 50 infection control staff, more than 200 full-time housekeeping staff and 44 allied health staffing, im provements to infor mation, com muni- cation tech nology to better support operations and patient care. Also, too, a further $16 million in addition to funding to expand staffing and training in personal - care homes, including nurses, allied health and re - cruitment and training incentives.

System im provements already under way is stabilizing staffing complements in personal -care homes, increasing–increases for nurses, health -care aides, allied he alth, infection pre vention and con- trol staff and housing, long- term-care leadership structuring to provide consistent medical guidance and com munications to address cross- system issues and advancing health resource planning to address infection control and address staffing challenges. Now, some of those comments are redundant, but they all certainly have different components to them with different initiatives.

Also, too, certainly, a large component of our – this department's responsibility is to develop a seniors strategy. And I have indicated that on numer ous occasions in the House when I had indicated how this department is progressing to try to fulfill the needs of seniors and what initiatives that we're looking to proceed with. * (15:40) We have initiated, certainly, public consultations through com munity en gagement networking, and those are going on as we speak.

And we are approaching, certainly, stake holders, as well as seniors, in all parts of the province to come to terms with understanding exactly what those needs are and what those parti cular individuals are advocating for. And we see that as being extremely positive and certainly something that will ultimately develop what our long-term strategy is– Mr. Chairperson: The minister's time has expired. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. According to Public Accounts –this is a direct quote: "Actual expenses for Seniors and Long Term Care were less than $500,000.

For display purposes, this is shown as zero." End quote. That's on page 48 of Public Accounts. Can the minister explain why the actual expenses for his department were zero dollars last year? Mr. Johnston: Thank the member from Union Station for the question. This de partment came into effect Janu ary the 18th. The end of the fiscal year was March 31st, according to Public Accounts. So, the expenditure within the department at that time, as we were getting set up, was frankly very minimal. Any expenditure we did have was relating to staffing, and that staffing was really myself and my deputy.

So that, I think, addresses that question, is that our expenses were minimal because of the early develop- ment of the de partment during that financial time frame. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for th at response. Manitoba has a federal -provincial agreement right now with the federal government. It's called the safe long -term-care agreement. It's 100 per cent federally funded, 100 per cent federal dollars. The agreement says that Manitoba was to receive 30 million–37, rather, million dollars last year.

Can the minister tell us how much of that money was actually received in 2021-22 and how much was spent and how much will carry forward to future years? So, I'll repeat that just to make sure th at I'm perfectly clear. The $37 million that Manitoba was to receive last year, can the minister tell us how much of that was actually received, how much was spent and how much will carry forward to future years? Mr. Johnston: In answer to the member of Union Station's question, $37 million was received by the Manitoba government, $37 million was spent primar- ily in personal -care homes.

And in answer to the question of what's carried over, the answer is none. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. Can the minister provide a breakdown of how the $37 million was spent, so where spe cifically, what initiatives the money funded, what positions, et cetera. So would really ap preciate if the minister could be–provide clarity and articulate jus t how that $37 million was spent.

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2979 * (15:50) Mr. Johnston: In answer to the member's question, funding received from the federal gov ernment for expenses incurred in the following areas were: the operation and maintenance of internal and external visitation shelters to provide a low -risk environment for in-person visits with residents. Secondly, strengthening infection prevention and control measures, including enhanced screening protocols for staff and significantly increased cleaning and janitorial services.

And, last, the imple mentation of a one -site staffing model across long -term-care homes, in - cluding incremental staffing costs incurred because of additional staff and sick time. MLA Asagwara: Can the minister provide me with a breakdown of how much money was spent on each of these initiatives? Of parti cular interest are the visitation shelters. Those shelters were esta blished well before the minister became the minister of this new department. Those shelters were long completed.

And so, I'm just wanting some clarity here as to why those shelters would then be part of the new dollars received from the federal government. It's not a criticism, it's–it is just a curiousity and I'm seeking clarity. So, while I ap preciate the minister provi ding a breakdown of the initiatives that the money was spent on, it would be great, and it's important, actually, that the minister can also provide a breakdown of the associated costs with those initiatives. Thank you. * (16:00) Mr.

Johnston: In answer to the member's question, safe long-term fund applied to expenditures incurred approximately 18 months prior to the end of the fiscal year '21-22. The actual values for the initiatives are still being finalized. We expect that we'll have the finalized expenditures at the end of this calendar year. MLA Asagwara: I apologize, can the minister repeat that answer? I didn't catch all of it. Mr. Johnston: Yes, happy to. Safe Long -term Care Fund applied to ex pend- itures incurred approximately 18 months prior to the end of the fiscal '21 -22 year.

The actual values for initiatives are still being finalized, and we expect they will be finalized by the end of this calendar year. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for his response and for provi ding clarity. I do look forward to see - ing the breakdown of expenditures. I think that Manitobans would be very interested in seeing that as well.

Understanding now that the funds could be ap- plied to expenditures incurred 18 months prior to the end of the fiscal year does raise questions for me around those funds being put to good use, in terms of new initiatives to address concerns in this particular area, especially given that this is a new depart ment and the opportunity that exists there to do so. So, we'll await that information, I guess, by year end. I'd like to ask a question, still on –you know, on this area of funding from the gov ernment. I'm won - dering if the agreement with the federal gov ernment has been renewed.

The current agreem ent is on the government's website, and it states that it's for one year. So, can the minister provide clarity as to whether or not the agreement has been renewed beyond that? Thank you. Mr. Johnston: I would ask if the member could give us some clari fication on which agreement she is referring to. We want to make sure that we give her– Mr. Chairperson: I must remind the member again to–when referring to the MLA for Union Station, members should use the pronouns they or them. I thank you for your co-operation. Mr. Johnston: Sorry, Mr. Chairman and apologies to the member from Union Station.

Yes, just for clari fication, if the member could give us what parti cular agreement she's refer –the member is referring to, then we want to make sure that we give the most accurate information to the question being asked. MLA Asagwara: Thank you for asking for that clarity. I actually misspoke on my question, which is probably why the minister is having a tough time finding the answer. I just want to remind the minister, I do use gender neutral pronouns. I've been a member of this House, of this Assembly, since 2019. My pronouns have con- sistently been gender neutral since before then but

2980 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 certainly, to his knowledge, since then. So I would greatly appreciate that he get it right. I don't really need any further apologies. I do need the minister to respect my pronouns and use them correctly. This is not just about me ; it's also about many other people who also use neutral pronouns. They're pronouns per haps the minister is not ac - customed to, but he should be. So, get it right, please. Thank you.

So, to correct myself, because I did ask in reference to the wrong agreement –I apologize for that–the Canada -Manitoba Home and Com munity Care and Mental Health and Addictions Services Funding Agreement. That is a mouthful but that is the agreement that I was actually referring to –I meant to refer to. So, I'll repeat that for the minister: Canada - Manitoba Home and Com munity Care and Mental Health and Addictions Services Funding Agreement. Can the minister clarify if that agreement with the federal gov ernment has been renewed?

That is the agreement that is on the gov ernment's website that stated it was for up to one year. Thank you. * (16:10) Mr. James Teitsma, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair Mr. Johnston: I would ask that the member would be properly suited channel–challenging–channelling that question to the minister of health and com munity wellness during that Esti mate process. I think that's where the question would be better suited. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that direction. Outside of executive, the minister's department is basically seven positions. We've already touched on that earlier in my questioning.

Those seven positions are administering two big pots of dollars in two parti- cular streams. One is $32 million in grants and the second is $21 million in other expenditures. Can the minister take us through those blocks of funding? If possible, provid e as much as a thorough breakdown as possible in terms of what those streams of dollars are allocated to specifically. Thank you. * (16:20) Mr. Johnston: In answer to the member's question, $19.9 million that was referred to was for the seniors strategy.

As I'd mentioned in the Legislature a number of times, our de partment is bringing forward early actions that we've identified based on our consul ta- tions and look forward to sharing those with the Legislature and ultimately the Manitoba public soon. Mr. Chairperson in the Chair The $32 million that was referred to was invested with the Stevenson report recommendations, and I did go through those earlier in our deliberations.

However, the major expenditure of that is the two announcements that we had made of $15 million, as well as a second announcement of $16 million as per, as I mentioned, the an nouncements that have been made. If the member has further questions, I'm happy to try to give her more–try to give more detail. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response. I may go back spe cifically around the $16 million, but I'll leave that for now and I'll go over that in my mind a little bit more. I'll move on to a question around consultation–or, the consultant, rather.

So I understand that there is a consultant–or maybe the gov ernment uses the lan - guage of contractor–for the seniors strategy. Can the minister tell us who that consultant is, what their budget is and how much they have been paid? Mr. Johnston: Sorry for the delay in getting back to you here. The consultants that we had contracted were Optimus SBR and the amount that they were con - tracted for was–or, budgeted for was $475,000. MLA Asagwara: Thank you. I thank the minister for that response. Can the minister provide some clarity around–so, the contract was for $475,000.

Can the minister clarify if that $475,000 has been paid in full? And if not, then how much has Optimus been paid? And is the minister able to provide a breakdown on what that $475,000 entails, so perhaps a percentage around if part of that $475,000 covers consul tations, perhaps another percentage out of that $475,000 is for some other aspect of that contract? As much detail as possible would be great. And then, again, some clarity around how much have they been paid or has it already been paid in full.

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2981 Thank you. * (16:30) Mr. Johnston: I would like to clarify some thing. I misspoke, I said $475,000 contract; I should have said–or, for the record, it should be $475,000 budget. So I wanted to clarify that. In answer to the member's question, nothing has been paid to date. And the components of the agree- ment include research, engagement and consultations, data analysis and strategy, and action plan dev elop- ment. Those are the four areas that we have engaged them on.

MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for provi ding that infor mation and for clarifying what he meant when he provided the number. Over the summer, the minister extended consul - tation for the seniors strategy. I ap preciate that the minister provided the $475,000 number. I'm wonder- ing if the minister can clarify if the extension of the consultation impacted the budget. He's already said that nothing has been paid as of yet, but is the $475,000 budget –has that always been the budget or did the extension of the consul tation increase the budget?

If that is the case, what was the original budget attached to this contract? Thank you. Mr. Johnston: To address the questions that the member had asked: work has been done on the con- sultations; however, we have not been invoiced as of yet for that work. Consultations were always designed to be com - prehensive with the consultant supporting my depart- ment. And there was nothing changed in the budget to accommodate this arrangement agreement. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for that response and for providing clarity around that process. I appreciate it. I'd like to ask a bit about the seniors advocate.

The minister has heard me and members of our NDP caucus advocate for this now for quite some time, certainly since 2019. And what I found interesting–the first time I raised this with the minister in the House, the minister essentially outright rejected it as a potential measure that this government might take.

And it is some thing that Manitobans have been calling for for some time, seniors have been calling for for some time. * (16:40) So, I'm wondering if the minister can provide a bit of–help me understand, you know, why he rejected this idea, s omething that seniors are calling for, advocacy groups are calling for, when consul tations are under way. To me, it doesn't quite line up. Like, why undergo all of these consultations if you're–if the minister's mind has already been made on these really significant areas and issues?

So, just wondering if the minister can provide some clarity around why the consultations, if his mind is already made up in areas like the idea around the establishment of a seniors advocate. Mr. Johnston: Certainly, I know how passionate the member is on this particular issue. I want the member to know that there has been discussions in regards to this consideration. However, it was the feeling of our government that by creating this min istry, that a seniors advocate wasn't warranted when you have the authority that now exists for seniors at the Cabinet table.

There have been certainly a number of initiatives that have been taken–that have been brought forward, so far, by our de partment that are a dir ect result of having a de partment with a minister. I don't think a seniors advocate would have been able to initiate the Stevenson review at the–at $32 million. I don't think that a seniors advocate would have been able to initiate the seniors strategy at $20 million. I mean, our whole seniors department budget is over $50 million. So, those dollars certainly are being spent by this de - partment very aggressively to fulfill the needs of seniors and that will continue.

As I'd indicated to the member on several occa- sions, we have a number of initiatives that are coming forward as early initiatives based on the seniors strategy, as well as the overall seniors strategy with a number of initiatives that we will be looking to initiate longer term for the good seniors of Manitoba. All that's happening because of the aggressive - ness of a department with a minister. So I'm not fully understanding why the opposition feels that a seniors advocate would have more author ity or more of a lobbying power than the minister himself or herself or themself to be able to accomplish results.

Now, I want to ensure that –I want to indicate to the member that we have talked to an awful lot of stakeholders and I don't necessarily agree with the member that all stake holders are advocating for a seniors advocate. I don't believe that's accurate.

2982 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 I will say that there has been some stakeholders who have brought the issue to my attention, but I can assure you that's not –that hasn't been the majority. And I'm just not comfortable, at this time, creating a separate department of government to address, really, what our department is addressing right now. And we are going to the public of Manitoba through consultations. We have invited a number of stakeholders to contribute and give us input into what the needs of seniors are.

So–and I will say to the member that as the con sultations continue, I am not close-minded to further develop ment of the de part- ment to address and fulfill concerns that may exist in home care, which is certainly on our radar. And I'm not necessarily opposed to looking to en- hance the de partment to address personal -care-home needs. Those are things that I am open- minded to when it comes to the consul tations that the member refers to. So, I'm not at this time prepared to make a com - mitment, but I am open- minded to some further support mechanisms. So, I hope that answers the members question.

MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for his response and for sharing some feedback in terms of what he's hearing from folks in consultations. I'm not surprised to hear that there are folks who are raising the issue of the creation of a seniors advocate, and that folks are still raising that as something they'd like to see. To be clear, a seniors advocate would not be a de- partment, as the minister referenced.

I think the minister–if the minister were to look at the children and youth advocate as an example of an entity that exists as an in dependent body to advocate on behalf of children and youth in our province and the importance of that entity functioning as an inde - pendent body that ensures and fights for the rights of children and youth. Children and youth are a vulnerable demographic in many ways, and it is critical that this entity exists in order to advocate alongside them and their families and on their behalf.

And similarly –certainly not comparing seniors and elders to children and youth, but I am identifying that seniors and elders live sometimes with vulner - abilities within our systems that require increased supports and advocacy and investigation.

And so, I think that it is im portant–certainly, while I respect the minister in his role and respect his knowledge and experience in being in that role, I would certainly caution the minister as I would any minister who would purport to know what is in the best interest definitively, and not be open to an independent perspective which would support his de- partment and support his role as the minister.

I think that is–again, I'll reference the children and youth advocate as a very good example of an entity that provides vital, critical, quite frankly life -saving information to the government in regards to measures that can be taken, strategies that can be under taken, and data that informs the ways in which we can better support and enhance the rights of children and youth. Certainly, I would think that the minister would recognize the importance of that entity, and when you connect that to why folks are perhaps advocating for a seniors advocate, I hope the minister can see the potential value in that.

So, I just wanted to make sure I put a few com - ments on the record to clarify that no one's calling for a new department, but are calling for an inde pendent body, which would actually function to really support seniors and elders in Manitoba, and also to support the government in being able to make the best decisions for those folks. I'd like to move on to a question and go back to the minister's actual House book. So, 'tabe'–tab four, rather, of the minister's House book talks about the number of personal -care-home beds in Manitoba.

From March 31st of 2016, there were 9,698 personal-care-home beds in Manitoba. In March 31st of 2022, we see 9,505. That's a loss of personal-care-home beds. Can the minister tell me how many personal-care- home beds are currently available in Manitoba and/or occupied in Manitoba? * (16:50) Mr. Johnston: I was wanting the member to clarify which document that she is referr ing to –or that the member– Mr. Chairperson: I must– Mr. Johnston: –is referring to–sorry. I'm sorry. The member from Union Station, please clarify which document that is being referred to.

October 5, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2983 MLA Asagwara: My apologies to the minister. I can't provide clarity on that point and I do apologize for that. Is the minister able, in the absence of being able to provide that, the minister should be able, however, to provide the information around how many beds are currently–rather, how many personal-care-home beds are currently available and/or occupied in Manitoba. That would be a number that should be readily available.

So, while I apologize I can't provide the clarity he's seeking specifically, the information that I am in need of should be available to the minister. Thank you. Mr. Johnston: We would want to verify this number with Health, but it's our initial data that indicates 9,513 beds are available. But again, I want to give the member the most accurate information that I can, so I do wish to verify that with the Department of Health.

And secondly, in regards to the amount of beds in use, again, I don't want to give the member an inaccurate number, so I would get back to her with verification of that number also –get back to verification–to the member with that number. MLA Asagwara: I thank the minister for provi ding that infor mation and I appre ciate him taking the further provision of data as an undertaking. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: The hour being 5 p.m., committee rise. ROOM 255 FINANCE * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Brad Michaleski): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the De partment of Finance. Questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): I'm wondering if the minister–I want to start today with the new–and I may have got the name wrong, so obviously, please correct me–either the digital services tax, or it's been in the press called the Netflix tax; and now that we've had it for about a year, I'm wondering if the minister can advise how much revenue has been raised from that new tax. Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): Thank you, I'm happy to answer the member's question. As he says, yes, the digital services tax is a tax that came into effect on December the 1st of last year. That tax was introduced in the budget. It was activated through the passage of last year's BITSA, and t he activation date –the in -effect date–was December the 1st. So, I can't give the member that –an annual or a number that would pertain to the entire fiscal year, but what I can tell him is that it is that tax that was attached to any streaming service that a Manitoban has.

So it is meant to apply to services to Manitobans. That means if you're a Netflix subscriber, your bill now contains the PST. If you– you know, if you subscribe to Amazon Prime, then you pay the PST on that. The initial assumption on an annual year was $25 million of revenue, but there is no place in the Public Accounts where it breaks that amount out. On page 66, of course, you see the revenue consolidated statements, and it includes that line for the retail sales of tax, and this would be–the impact of this would be in there. Next year, we will have the data from a full year of this particular tax.

By the way, I will make one other point clear, and that is, the company itself, it does not have to distinguish between its –the tax it pa ys, online sales, and like, in other words, non- streaming services and this tax. So there's not going to be a way to parse out that number that the member wants. The esti mate, of course, $25 million per year have been collecting since December the 1st. Mr. Wasyliw: Thank you, Minister, for the answer. Now, you indicated, obviously, that it applies to streaming services, which Amazon Prime is obviously one.

But does it also apply to digital marketplace services like just the Amazon website or the Costco website or major retailers like Hudson's Bay and all that. Are they paying PST? And the reason why I'm –question the minister about this; I've met with the small business com mu- nity in Manitoba, and they would like to have a level playing field for commerce and they often, what they called–what's the expression–showrooming where people will go into their brick-and-mortar stores, they

2984 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 5, 2022 look around, and then they go home and buy the exact same product on Amazon and, of course, Manitoba loses out on the PST. So I'm wondering if you could explain the scope of the tax, whether it would cover those type of trans- actions, and if it doesn't, are there plans in the future to quote, unquote, level the playing field to make sure that they do? * (15:10) Mr. Friesen: I appreciate the member's question. Yes, the entire rationale behind the government's moves have been to address exactly the concerns that the member is raising.

And that is, we don't want a system whereby there are additional benefits accruing to companies who sell online against which people with bricks and mortar who have a footprint in Manitoba are competing, and they don't want to be at a disadvantage. And previous to the changes that our government brought, there was that unlevel playing field. The member talks about that showrooming: I've heard this myself from my children, who are consumers and living in different provinces, and they talk about this practice of going in and trying some - thing, even buying it, you know, and then returning it and buying it online.

So, we are trying to stamp out exactly that type of behaviour. The changes he's referring to are called the online marketplaces –it's a tax on online marketplaces. He will see, in last year's budget, a 2021- 2022 fiscal impact of $3 .3 million was the budget, and essentially requiring online marketplaces to collect and remit retail sales tax on the sale of taxable goods sold by third parties on their electronic platform s. It would–may–was–came into effect December the 1st. So that is in addition to the streaming service's application of tax.

And I would also want to include that this same principle is applied to online booking services of hotels. So the same practice has been extended. All of these, as the member says, for the purpose of levelling the playing field. Clearly, in my con versations and ongoing dia - logue with the retail industry and various stakeholder groups, these are concerns they have raised in the past. They are pleased to see the work made to level the playing field. These same types of changes are going on in other jurisdictions in Canada as well. Mr.

Wasyliw: So, if I understand the minister cor - rectly, then, you know, Amazon Marketplace would get covered by this, and if he can confirm that. But given th at we have put these measures in place, I would assume that these large multinational corporations have to open up at least a PST tax account in the province of Manitoba. So then, I guess, my next question would be is, do they also have opened up a cor porate tax account, and do these companies pay corporate tax in Manitoba, or do they only pay PST as part of this tax initiative? Mr. Friesen: I'm happy to respond to the member's question.

Of course, the gov ernment, you know, has the concern that the member is citing, and that is to create level playing con ditions to be able to incentivize people to bring their business to Manitoba to support our retailers in this province who sell goods to Manitobans. And so, the–to the member's question: Is there a registration process by which online retailers register, you know, to essentially open an RST account or an RST registration? The answer is yes. So, these retailers–we have to have a way, of course, you know, to be able to have this tax remitted an d that is the process by which that is done.

When it comes to the test of cor porate, then the member's referring to practices that belong to the federal government, Canada Revenue Agency. Those determinations go down to the test of cor porate presence, and that is a federal process to test whether a company has a corporate presence in a jurisdiction. And that corporate presence could be determined b

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-4-69
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 4th hansardpdf 69.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	0f835089347cf0022e02a174ba91af4af12c4060

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