Second Session, 43rd Parliament

Official Report

of Debates

( Hansard )

Monday, April 27, 2026

Afternoon Sitting

Issue No. 164

The Honourable Raj Chouhan , Speaker

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

Contents

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements

Tod and Jocelyn Maffin and Nanaimo Infusion 2026

George Anderson

Introductions by Members

Members’ Statements

May Day and Day of Mourning for Workers

Darlene Rotchford

Volunteer Contributions of Morgan Brewster

Bryan Tepper

Loss of Heritage and Work of Cultural Restoration

Debra Toporowski / Qwulti’stunaat

North Shore Rotary Clubs

Lynne Block

Shelter Movers and Action Against Gender-Based Violence

Rohini Arora

Greendale Acres Farm and Corn Maze

Korky Neufeld

Ministerial Statements

Anniversary of Lapu-Lapu Festival Attack and Support for Victims

Hon. David Eby

Trevor Halford

Jeremy Valeriote

Oral Questions

Comments by Regional Chief and Government Relationship with First Nations

Trevor Halford

Hon. David Eby

Mining Project in Okanagan and U.S. Indigenous Tribe Involvement in Court Case

Scott McInnis

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert

Hon. Laanas / Tamara Davidson

Industrial Water Rates and Watershed Protection

Jeremy Valeriote

Hon. Randene Neill

Government Policy on Industrial Site Hazardous Waste Clean-Up and Costs

Jeremy Valeriote

Hon. Laanas / Tamara Davidson

Government Action on Homelessness and Safety Issues in Abbotsford Encampments

Bruce Banman

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Food Bank Use and Government Action on Issues

Lorne Doerkson

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson

Health Care Benefits for Nurses

Peter Milobar

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Property Tax Deferment and Homeowner Grant Programs and Support for Low-Income Seniors

Brennan Day

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Question of Privilege (Reservation of Right)

Peter Milobar

Reports from Committees

Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills Committee , Bill M217, Dashboard Cameras in Commercial Vehicles Act; Bill M231, First Responders

Month Act

Amna Shah

Question of Privilege

Dallas Brodie

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health

Hon. Josie Osborne

Claire Rattée

Private Members’ Motions

Motion M205 — Mandatory Orientation Course for MLAs (continued)

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Energy and Climate Solutions (continued)

Hon. Adrian Dix

David Williams

Larry Neufeld

Jeremy Valeriote

Jordan Kealy

Committee of the Whole

Bill 16 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2026

Steve Kooner

Hon. Adrian Dix

Larry Neufeld

Jeremy Valeriote

Monday, April 27, 2026

The House met at 1:33 p.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Elenore Sturko : I don’t see them in the gallery yet, but it does give me great pleasure to introduce

a group of visiting students from Simon Fraser’s master of applied legal studies program,

also known as notary school. Each year British Columbia commissions a small number

of new notaries who practice non-contentious law.

I wish to highlight also the work of one of their professors, who is someone that

we see here in the chamber on a daily basis. He just finished instructing the most

recent notary cohort on wills, estates, personal planning, and he is, of course, the

member for Burnaby South–Metrotown.

The students in the House today. We have Amy Niddle; Jody Lamb; Ashley Chung; Mackenzie

Anderson; Sarah Miller; Megan Cawthorne; and a familiar face, my CA, Sam Schaap.

Will the House help me to please make them feel welcome.

[1:35 p.m.]

Brennan Day : I’ve got a couple of introductions today.

First is Mayor John Henderson, from the amazing city of Sechelt. He joined us this

weekend for the AVICC conference. Some fantastic discussions happened there.

As well, I would like to introduce Jennifer Humphreys from AbbVie. This is a drug

company that’s dealing in cutting-edge treatments for things like ulcerative colitis

and doing that research right here at home, in British Columbia.

Would the House please make them all feel very welcome.

Jennifer Blatherwick : I would like to have the House welcome someone who is very close to me, my constituency

assistant, Adrian Watson-Babij, who is here this week enjoying Victoria and watching

our debates and conversations very closely in the House.

If we could all make him feel very welcome.

Peter Milobar : I’d like to recognize the Mechanical Contractors Association of B.C.; their CEO,

Kim Barbero, and her board; and the 53,400 highly-skilled jobs that they do represent

in and around British Columbia. I had a great meeting with them earlier today.

Will the House please make them welcome.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I’d like to invite the House to join me in welcoming Kelly Favro who, of course,

is an employee in this place, in the east annex, and a happy greeting face as we go

into the east annex.

Importantly, Kelly has been really involved in the My Voice, My Choice movement and

really focused on the question of how NDAs are used for sexual assault survivors.

She has done some extraordinary work in Ottawa, is such a powerful voice on this issue.

We’re very lucky to have her voice.

Would the House please join me in making her most welcome.

Misty Van Popta : I’d like to give recognition to Christine Goertzen in the House today. She is the

wife of Jason, who is our spiritual care provider and support system to many of us

here.

Christine is retiring this year from teaching. She’s been a teacher in Langley for

15 years and, most recently, 22 years here in Victoria.

Will the House congratulate her on a well-deserved career and wish her luck in the

years going forward.

Statements

Tod and Jocelyn Maffin

and Nanaimo Infusion 2026

George Anderson : I rise today to recognize and thank Tod and Jocelyn Maffin for the success of Nanaimo

Infusion 2026 this past Saturday, an event that brought hundreds of Americans and

health care workers to our community and showed them the very best of Nanaimo.

I spoke with Rachael, a nurse from Texas, who spoke about doctors and working collaboratively

here. Henrietta, a nurse from Michigan, shared the relief of knowing she does not

have to worry about whether insurance will be covered.

Brandy arrived with a job offer, her 13-year-old and their bird because, apparently,

even the bird heard Nanaimo and decided it was time to migrate. Brandy said that this

is a place where diversity flourishes. Her son loves our schools and is already swimming

in the Summer Games.

That is the promise of British Columbia, a place where people can belong, contribute

and build a hopeful future.

I hope the whole House will join me in congratulating Tod and Jocelyn Maffin on a

successful 2026 Nanaimo Infusion.

Introductions by Members

Jody Toor : I often don’t get visitors from my riding of Langley-Willowbrook, but there is a

young lady that’s super smart, talented and has been an amazing volunteer at my office,

Raina Walia, who is visiting here with the B.C. parliament council.

I just want the House to please make her feel welcome.

Rohini Arora : I want to take a moment to shout out three amazing advocates and supporters: Jessie

Kaur Lehail, who is the

chapter director of Shelter Movers; Shana Slater; as well

as Preetka Pattar. All three of them were supposed to be here today, but they actually

had an emergency and are supporting someone escaping intimate-partner violence, hence

the organization Shelter Movers.

Please join me in welcoming them. I will be speaking about them later today.

[1:40 p.m.]

Á’a :líya Warbus : It’s my pleasure today to announce the ten members of the B.C. Youth Council, some

of whom were mentioned by colleagues. I want to make sure that we include all of them

in our welcome today. They’re here as an organization of clubs in secondary schools

from around the province coming together to participate in B.C.’s democratic processes.

They bring these youth perspectives to policy and encourage other youth to be involved

in politics. Their mission is to bring youth closer to provincial politics of British

Columbia and their local communities through structured engagement, policy analysis

and democratic participation.

Will the House please join me in welcoming Jacqueline Leung, Declan Williams, Leo

Chen, Sara Black, Daryn Dolatre, Leah Wang, Kim Lue, Sumreen Khera, Dylan Shackle

and Raina Walia.

May your wisdom and your participation make us all better members of this House.

Hon. Jennifer Whiteside : I’d like to join my colleague in welcoming the Mechanical Contractors Association

of B.C. in the gallery today. MCABC represents 11 primary trades in the construction

sector here in British Columbia. They are primarily concerned with clean air, clean

water, quality-built environments and safe and high-quality working environments.

Their sector includes more than 25,000 skilled tradespeople in an industry that contributes

$10 billion to British Columbia’s GDP. You can think of any project in the industrial,

commercial, institutional or residential sector, from HVAC systems to medical gas

in our hospitals, and it is mechanical contractors who are responsible for ensuring

the safety and quality of those functions.

Please join me in welcoming CEO Kim Barbero, Conor Brendan Dunne, Kyle Wisniewski,

Brittany Manulak, Keith Pearce, Maddie Davidson, Simon Miller, Steve Robinson and

Rob Nagai to the House.

Thank you so much for being here.

Lynne Block : I am thrilled today to have a very dear friend and former teaching colleague, who

is here today along with her two sons: Sandra Sokugawa, her son Kaden and her son

Sebastian. She is an extraordinary teacher. She has done professional development

and Tribes training, cooperative learning, research-based learning throughout B.C.

with me. She has written numerous articles for very different education manuals. She

has a master of science in psychology and neuroscience in mental health from King’s

College London, England.

Kaden is studying in mathematical sciences at UBC, and Sebastian is in grade 10 and

enjoying sciences at his secondary school.

I am honoured to have them here today, and I thank them for their inspiration, their

guidance, their mentoring. Amazing.

Please make them feel very, very welcome.

Anna Kindy : I’d like to introduce the love of my life, my husband, Dr. Peter Olesen. We met in

medical school 43 years ago. We both worked as GPs in rural areas, and he went back,

after doing some cardiac surgery assists, to train in plastic surgery and started

the plastic surgery program in the north Island.

I remember those days on call, one-on-one, for three years. That’s how hard we worked.

He is programmed now, he has got two partners, and he covers the Nanaimo north. I

don’t know of anybody who is a better surgeon and a better patient advocate and a

better father to our three children — the love of my life, Dr. Peter Olesen.

Paul Choi : My colleague already briefly mentioned them, but I think they just walked in, so

I also want to mention how excited I am to have students from SFU master’s in legal

studies program here, led by Professor Margaret Hall: Megan Cawthorne, Amy Niddle,

Mackenzie Anderson, Sarah Miller, Sam Schaap, Ashley Chung and Jody Lamb.

They’re our future legal professionals who are here to learn about how law gets made

in B.C. They had the privilege of meeting the Attorney General briefly as well.

If I could ask the House to please make them feel very welcome here.

[1:45 p.m.]

Heather Maahs : Of course, we all appreciate the wonderful job that the security team does in the

Legislature.

There should be a little perk to that, so today I would like to wish Meighan’s daughter

Charlotte a happy 16th birthday.

Rohini Arora : I just want to give a shout-out to my friend Jennifer Cader. She’s the government

and public affairs manager with FortisBC. She’s also on the advisory committee of

the Natural Resources Forum.

If you could please join me in making her feel very welcome.

Lorne Doerkson : I’m pleased to introduce two constituents of mine today, Lee Granberg and Laura Dewar.

They are here representing Watch Lake/Green Lake fire departments.

They’ve had a very, very busy morning. I’m grateful to the Ministers of Water and

Land, Forestry and also Public Safety, along with the Speaker of the House, for meeting

with them this morning.

Thank you very much.

Please make them very welcome here today.

Mable Elmore : I’d like to wish a happy birthday to my brother-in-law Erick Haines. He’s celebrating

today.

Unfortunately, I can’t be with him, but I ask everybody here in the House to please

wish him a very happy birthday.

Kristina Loewen : I would like to make an introduction, as well, today. We have the good people from

Take a Hike visiting today. I just want to applaud them for the work that they do

in our school districts with youth and mental health and getting them out into the

great outdoors.

Will the House please join me in welcoming them today.

Members’ Statements

May Day and Day of

Mourning for Workers

Darlene Rotchford : I rise today to recognize two significant observances this week, May Day and the

National Day of Mourning.

May Day is a time to celebrate workers, the people whose skill, dedication and resilience

keep our communities running. In Esquimalt-Colwood, we see that every day in our shipyard

workers, our health care teams, our tradespeople and our service workers. Their contributions

shape not only our local economy but also the strength and character of our province.

As we recognize these workers, we must also be reminded that we have lost some. The

National Day of Mourning is a solemn reminder of lives that have been lost, the injuries

sustained and the families forever changed by workplace incidents. It calls on all

of us to reflect on our responsibility to ensure that every worker returns home safely.

This year’s Day of Mourning theme is “Psychological health and safety is occupational

health and safety.” To truly protect workers from all workplace hazards, we must treat

psychological health with the same seriousness as physical health in our laws and

in our compensation system. We must continue to take meaningful steps to prevent occupational

psychological injuries through enforceable protections.

These are not abstract ideas. They are practical steps that will save lives, reduce

harm and support a healthier workplace here across British Columbia.

As we mark these two observances, let us recommit not only to recognizing the contribution

of these workers but to protecting their full well-being, physical and psychological

alike. It is why I got involved in this work myself, as a health care worker in mental

health and addiction. I saw firsthand what can happen if we don’t support these people.

I saw good workers relapse because of their psychological injury, and I saw amazing

employers support them.

We need to make sure we continue to do our part, because honouring workers means ensuring

their safety in every sense of the word.

Tomorrow I hope everyone in this House will join me, and everyone on south Vancouver

Island will join us, on the front lawn of the Legislature at 12 o’clock to ensure

that we honour those who have passed and the families who have lost those loved ones,

as well as to recommit to ensuring that all workers across this province are safe.

Volunteer Contributions of

Morgan Brewster

Bryan Tepper : It is my great honour today to introduce Morgan Brewster, a lifelong volunteer whose

service to the people of Crescent Beach and South Surrey stands as a shining example

of what community dedication truly means.

Morgan’s family’s roots run deep in this province. His great-great-grandfather arrived

from Ontario in 1885 and homesteaded a farm at Mud Bay between the Serpentine and

Nicomekl rivers, overlooked by all of Panorama.

For generations, the Brewster family has returned to those shores. Morgan himself

has spent every summer of his life, 43 years, in Crescent Beach, a place his family

has called home since 1950. The deep connection shaped a lifetime of service.

[1:50 p.m.]

At age ten, Morgan volunteered in a search for a missing boy in a tragic drowning.

With a father who had been a lifeguard, those moments led a lifelong passion for guarding,

search and rescue, and helping others. Morgan lifeguarded at Crescent Beach. He began

volunteering as a boat instructor, and I have experienced firsthand his skill with

an outboard motor.

He has served on the management committee of Crescent Beach Lifeguard Corp. and, for

the past five years, has proudly served as president. With the Crescent Beach Swim

Club, he started in progressive roles in 2005, and, in September 2025, he became president,

a process that is both mystical and exciting every time it happens at the club. He’s

the first third-generation president, proudly following both his grandfather and father.

Morgan’s marine rescue record is remarkable. He first volunteered with the Coast Guard

Auxiliary on the north arm of the Fraser River. He returned to what is now Royal Canadian

Marine Search and Rescue, unit 5. As coxswain, he handled initial responses and resource

allocation on more than 100 rescue calls.

Everyone who knows Morgan knows he would have loved to wear the uniform of the RCMP.

To this day, all summer long he follows every emergency call in the Crescent Beach

area, ready to support our first responders in whatever way he can.

I would be remiss for not mentioning that for the past ten seasons, he has also coached

and managed the South Vancouver Little League, from T-Ball right up to majors.

Morgan Brewster is the very definition of quiet, consistent, community-first leadership.

Please join me in giving him a warm welcome to the British Columbia Legislature.

Thank you, Morgan.

Loss of Heritage

and Work of Cultural Restoration

Debra Toporowski / Qwulti’stunaat : What does the loss of heritage look like? It doesn’t always arrive with noise. Sometimes

it slips in quietly between generations, between languages, between stories that were

once told and are now forgotten. It looks like a child who cannot understand the words

that their grandparents speak.

It looks like the songs that were once sung on the land, only remembered in fragments

now. It looks like sacred places that stand unchanged in the earth but are no longer

recognized, no longer visited, no longer protected in the same way.

Loss of heritage is not just about the past. It’s about reshaping the future. It looks

like young people searching for identity in a world that never taught them where they

came from. It looks like Elders carrying knowledge they fear will not be passed on.

It looks like ceremonies that were once outlawed, languages that were once punished

and traditions that were pushed into silence.

Yet this loss is not total. Even after generations of disruption, something remains

— in the resilience of community, in the revival of language, in the return of the

land and the culture. But we must be honest. What was interrupted cannot be simply

restored without care, respect and action. To witness the loss of heritage is to understand

what was taken and also to recognize what is still being protected, rebuilt and fought

for every single day.

The questions we’re left with now…. Just what has been lost, and what we are willing

to do to ensure that it is never lost again.

North Shore Rotary Clubs

Lynne Block : Today I rise to recognize the remarkable contributions of Rotary International across

the North Shore, encompassing both West Vancouver and North Vancouver.

On the North Shore, Rotary is more than a name. It’s a network of committed individuals

turning “Service above self” into real, visible impact.

In West Vancouver, the Rotary Club has made a lasting difference through initiatives

like student scholarships that open doors for young people and support for community

wellness projects that strengthen families and local connections. Their contributions

to public amenities and youth-focused programs help ensure that opportunity and support

are always within reach.

Across North Vancouver, the Rotary Club of North Van and the Rotary Club of Lions

Gate have led impactful efforts such as organizing food drives to address local food

insecurity, supporting youth leadership development through programs like Rotary Youth

Leadership Awards and raising funds for global clean water initiatives that save lives

far beyond our borders.

[1:55 p.m.]

Together these clubs define what it means to serve the North Shore. They bring people

together not just to talk about change but to make it happen. Whether it’s helping

a student pursue their dreams, ensuring that a family has food on the table or improving

access to clean water worldwide, their actions ripple outward in powerful ways. In

a world that often feels divided, the Rotary clubs of the North Shore remind us of

what’s possible when compassion meets action.

Let us recognize and thank them not only for their projects but for their leadership,

their generosity and their unwavering commitment to building stronger communities

here at home and around the world.

Shelter Movers and Action

Against Gender-Based Violence

Rohini Arora : There is an organization quietly and directly changing how our province responds

to gender-based violence: Shelter Movers Vancouver.

Last week we marked both National Volunteer Week and Prevention of Violence Against

Women Week, a reminder that what looks like data on a page is in reality someone packing

a life into boxes and walking away from danger. Shelter Movers exists at the exact

moment of decision. They provide free moving and storage services to individuals and

families fleeing abuse, meeting a need that is often invisible in our public systems.

Leaving is not just emotional; it’s logistical. It is furniture, clothing, pets, documents,

children’s belongings and the question of where to go when nowhere is yet certain.

Leaving can happen in a moment of courage, but what comes after is where people are

most at risk. It is the logistics that can delay, trap and endanger them. In those

moments, every second counts.

Under the leadership of

chapter director Jessie Kaur Lehail, Shelter Movers Vancouver

has completed close to 1,700 moves across 19 municipalities, supporting hundreds of

survivors, children and family pets. Each move is not just relocation but a shift

from constant fear towards safety and the space to begin rebuilding slowly but surely.

This work spans low, medium and high-risk situations, including coordination with

security partners and municipal police when needed. They support survivors in homes,

shelters, encampments and those exiting human trafficking, meeting people in moments

of profound vulnerability with care, dignity and a reminder that their dignity remains

intact.

None of this happens alone. It is powered by a 150-strong volunteer network, supported

by partners and staff like Shana Slater and Preetka Pattar and as part of a national

organization with chapters across Ontario and the Maritimes, with Langley resident

Alison Dantas serving on the national board.

At its heart are the volunteers — people who show up with trucks, boxes and their

time, often in the early hours or late at night so that someone else does not have

to face leaving alone. They are not just moving belongings. They are making safety

possible. Their work reminds us that safety can look like a truck arriving at the

right time, a box carefully packed and a simple message: “You do not have to do this

alone.”

Greendale Acres

Farm and Corn Maze

Korky Neufeld : There was an old farmer in the Fraser Valley who once told his son-in-law that his

idea was the stupidest thing he had ever heard. Cut patterns in a cornfield and then

charge people to walk around in it? Ridiculous. Then John Bruinsma showed up every

weekend until the day he died. That’s how, in 1999, the Bruinsma farmhouse, Greendale

Acres, became Canada’s first corn maze.

That’s the thing about a good idea. Sometimes it takes someone else living it out

before you can see it. Sometimes faith isn’t something you have at the beginning.

It’s something you find in the middle of the rows. What started as one article, one

phone call, one leap into the unknown became Canada’s first corn maze and eventually

something much larger — a place where strangers become regulars, regulars become friends

and friends become family. Strangers were just someone they hadn’t known long enough

yet.

Three sisters — Danielle, Vanessa and Mariah — learned hospitality before they learned

long division, never asked for this life but chose it anyway, not because it was easy

but because some things are worth holding onto, such as the land, the table that always

has room and the idea that work we do matters, not just to our own families but to

everyone who walks through the gate.

We have watched this family work, I mean, really work, the kind that doesn’t stop

when the lights go down. We have seen what it costs them and what it gives back. We

have watched them choose, again and again, to keep the table long and the gate open.

[2:00 p.m.]

What they’ve built here isn’t just a farm. Greendale Acres is a place where people

make memories they’ll carry with them for the rest of their lives.

This is for you, Bruinsmas, for the mud on the floors, the SOS techs, the 3 a.m. drainage

projects and every single person you’ve ever pulled up a chair for. You made room

for us all, and we’re better for it.

Wherever you are today, whatever field you’re standing in, whatever idea sounds a

little too strange to say out loud, remember this. The best things rarely make sense

at first. They just need someone willing to start cutting.

Thank you, Greendale Acres, for the memories. Thank you, Bruinsma family.

Ministerial Statements

Anniversary of Lapu-Lapu Festival

Attack and Support for Victims

Hon. David Eby : A year ago it was a spring evening after a beautiful day, a festival celebrating

a community that I know every member of this place holds close to their heart, the

Filipino community in British Columbia. Vendors were packing up, families were getting

ready to go home, and volunteers were cleaning up the site when a man drove a vehicle

through the crowd on the street, killing 11 people and injuring countless more.

This was a year ago, and I know a number of us were at commemorations of this horrific

and tragic event over the last week. For those of us who were there, it is very obvious

this could’ve happened yesterday for the families of those who didn’t make it. The

healing is feeling a long way off for that.

But with a year in the passage of time, it does create the possibility to reflect

on the heroism of those who remain. There are so many heroes I’ve met over the last

week and since that tragic event.

The families who are living with people who are profoundly injured, like AJ, who is

struggling to recover abilities that we all take for granted every day, his life forever

changed, his family’s life forever changed.

The families of those who didn’t make it, who have to go on with their lives, who

have to go to work, who have to pay the bills, despite the enormous grief that they

face.

The organizers of the event, who put together an amazing event only to see it turned

into grief and tragedy, and who turned around to support a community, a city, a province,

a nation and a world that was shocked by what they had seen.

The first responders. The police, the fire, the ambulance workers and paramedics seeing

the coverage on the news, coming in to cover shifts.

The health care workers. HEU, doctors, nurses, health science professionals, all of

them pitching in to ensure people got treatment as the 911 calls came in.

There is a lot of work ahead for this province still. The criminal process is ongoing.

The community deserves answers they will need to get. But I know for myself, for the

government and for every member of this House, we stand in grief remembering the events

of a year ago. We stand with the survivors, the Filipino community and with all who

are affected in both thanking those who stepped up, who continue to step up, and in

remembering those who didn’t make it home.

Trevor Halford : I want to thank the Premier for his words.

It was one year ago in Vancouver. Eleven members of our community went to a street

festival to celebrate and did not come home. They were celebrating Lapu-Lapu Day,

a day to celebrate the Filipino heritage, resilience and community. Within seconds,

it became one of the darkest days of our history.

I was there that morning. I was there with a number of my colleagues. What I do remember

is seeing the Premier there as well. I think the Premier brought his little girl to

that event that morning, if I’m correct. It was nice to see that, but what unfolded

after was absolute tragedy.

[2:05 p.m.]

We pause to remember, across this province, the families and communities gathered

to mark this tragedy. But for the families and survivors of this senseless act, they

live with that grief every single day. That is why we speak their names again.

We say Maria Victoria Bjarnason; Jenifer Darbellay; Nerissa Pagkanlungan; Kira Salim;

Jendhel Sico; Glitza Daniela Samper and her parents, Glitza Maria and Daniel Samper,

three generations of one family; Richard Le and Linh Hoang and their daughter Katie,

five years old. Eleven souls aged five to 65. Behind each name, an empty chair, a

grandmother waiting for a call or a little boy who lost his entire family.

To the survivors and to the first responders, I can’t imagine what they are going

through, with more than 30 injured and some still recovering. We think about the pain

that they endure every news cycle, where they have to relive the tragedy. The bystanders

who so bravely apprehended the driver. The paramedics, the nurses, the doctors, not

only at Vancouver General Hospital but at hospitals throughout the Lower Mainland.

In the midst of that, we saw heroics. We saw the MLA for Vancouver-Kensington step

up in a way that all members of this House are so grateful for and so proud of and

continue to be proud of the leadership that this MLA has shown for that community

and continues to show.

Thank you for that.

To the Filipino community who have suffered so much in the wake of this tragedy. A

lot of them came to Canada to build lives of dignity and have contributed immensely.

They have done so much. They have filled our hospitals, our classrooms, every walk

of life in British Columbia with kindness. In the year since, they have grieved with

grace and refused to let hatred define their community. They have been an example

to us all.

I want to say to the survivors: we’re with you.

To the people that lost their lives: we remember you.

To an entire community that will continue to grieve for generations: we grieve with

you.

Jeremy Valeriote : I stand to buttress the thoughtful words from the Premier and the Leader of the Official

Opposition as we mark one year since this horrible attack. The violence of that tragedy

stays with me and all British Columbians, and we hold all the victims in our thoughts

and prayers yesterday, today and tomorrow.

I think particularly of the Filipino community, who mourn those that were lost, support

people who were injured and hold deep trauma from that day. One year is such a short

amount of time, where the wounds of the attack feel so raw. It’s also such a long

time, where people are so deeply missed and their absence so keenly felt.

It’s so important that we have places to gather, that we invest money and energy in

celebrations that recognize B.C.’s multicultural foundations. We can’t let the tragic

events of last year’s festival lead us toward further isolation. We must resist the

temptation to shrink away from each other, stay indoors or layer on armour. The only

lasting remedy for the pain and loss of this day is to come together, to lean on each

other, to open our hearts, to share our cultures and to keep making time to celebrate.

As members of this House, we all remember together, and we must all take action together.

We honour those whom we lost and the resilience and strength shown by the local community.

But we must do more too. We must make sure that victims receive full support, that

public sector agencies learn from this tragedy and that there is work undertaken to

look at how this event occurred and how future ones can be prevented.

Remembrance in mourning is the first step toward healing, but it cannot be the last.

I ask all members of this House to answer the call and recommit to the serious work

of keeping British Columbians safe.

Oral Questions

Comments by Regional Chief

and Government Relationship with

First Nations

Trevor Halford : We have asked this government on numerous occasions if they are now co-governing

the province with First Nations leadership.

When asked last week if B.C. is being co-governed by the province and First Nations,

the Regional Chief of the Assembly of First Nations responded clearly by saying: “Yes,

that’s exactly right.” It looks like we actually finally got an answer from somebody.

[2:10 p.m.]

My question to the Premier, to anybody in government. Will they stand up today and

confirm that B.C. has, in fact, entered into co-governance?

Hon. David Eby : The opposition is deliberately twisting this to spread fear. When we work on health

care, we work with doctors. When we work on education, we work with teachers and parents,

kids. When we work on Indigenous rights, we work with Indigenous People.

Section 35 of the constitution places obligation on our government and every government,

given that most of the province was settled without treaty. Parliament has a crucial

and primary role to play here, and it will continue to have that role to play.

I don’t understand why the member is opposed to us talking with Indigenous People

about Indigenous rights. It is the only path forward. It is not, as he is pretending,

a ceding of governance. It’s a recognition of our obligations under the law.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Trevor Halford : Here’s the problem. Whenever the Premier hears a quote that he doesn’t like: “You

are now spreading fear.” Okay. Some of the problem is that we are actually reading

quotes from the Premier directly, who is saying that we are fearmongering when we

are actually giving him his words back to him. That is a problem.

It is clear that when the Regional Chief of the Assembly of First Nations was asked

about changes to DRIPA, he said — this is a quote for the Premier from the regional

Chief — “At this point, no, absolutely not. I think DRIPA is working.” That is a quote

from the assembly Chief.

I’ll read again from the Premier. He says again, when asked about co-governance: “Yes,

that is exactly right.” This isn’t about anybody fearmongering. This is about asking

the Premier, for once in the last number of months, to have a clear position.

I’ll ask the Premier again directly. Is Regional Chief Terry Teegee wrong in his remarks

when he says that they are now co-governing with the province of B.C., yes or no?

Hon. David Eby : Maybe I’ll read a quote from the critic for Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation

to clarify things for the Leader of the Opposition.

The critic said: “Some of the challenges that we’re seeing today, specifically with

the land question, come down to the fact that we didn’t complete those treaties over

150, 175 years ago.” On a separate occasion, he said: “Aboriginal title is a real

thing under the constitution. There are legal areas where government is obligated

to work with First Nations. We have to do that work.”

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. David Eby : This parliament has a clear set of responsibilities under the Constitution Act, under

the province of British Columbia. We are elected to do that work. Part of that work

includes working with First Nations on areas where the constitution mandates us to

do so.

This parliament remains supreme, but we are bounded by a constitution that obliges

us to do important work with First Nations, and we will do that work.

The Speaker : Member, second supplemental.

Trevor Halford : Let’s be clear. Right now, in this moment, we are asking the Premier of this province,

elected — marginally, but elected — if they have entered into co-governance. He refuses

to answer. A very basic question asking the leader of the province to stand up and

answer a direct question, whether or not he is now co-governing with First Nations

leadership, and he refuses to do it. That is the answer. He has already given it twice.

So let’s ask the Premier once again, a third time. Can he stand up and dismiss the

comments made by the Regional Chief, Terry Teegee, when he says that when it comes

to co-governance: “Yes, that is exactly right”? Those are his words, not mine.

Does the Premier dismiss those words or agree with the fact that they are now co-governing

with First Nations leadership?

It’s a yes or no, Premier.

[2:15 p.m.]

Hon. David Eby : I was asked this question on the radio — I would say, in a more thoughtful way —

by a radio host, Simi Sara. She said to me: “Right. It sounds to me like you’re rejecting

the idea of a co-governance situation. You’re saying: ‘We’re talking. We’re consulting.

We’re working together.’ But you’re not co-governing.”

And then I say: “That is correct. At the end of the day, we’ve got parliamentary representatives

that are elected from every part of the province. We have to vote on laws. The sort

of Conservative conversation that, at the end of the day, the parliament no longer

matters, that it’s some sort of different arrangement now, is simply not the case.”

We have treaties in front of this House right now, where we will be debating….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. David Eby : Where are they? This is the level of serious debate we get from the Conservatives

on crucial issues of the prosperity of our province.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member, order, please.

Hon. David Eby : And yet when we talk about creating thousands of jobs, economic certainty for British

Columbians — Eskay Creek, Red Chris mine, LNG Canada phase 2, crucial investments

in the future of our province that require cooperation and engagement with First Nations

— these members pretend those aren’t serious issues. They’re not important.

They are important. They’re crucial to the prosperity of our province. We’ll continue

to do the work, and I hope the opposition does better.

Mining Project in Okanagan

and U.S. Indigenous Tribe

Involvement in Court Case

Scott McInnis : Wow, it sounds like in 22 minutes and 43 seconds, there’s going to be an awkward

phone conversation between the Premier’s office and Mr. Teegee.

A U.S.-based tribe, the Sn̓ʕaýckstx Confederacy, is actively trying to disrupt a vital critical mineral mine within the

Interior. The mine is co-owned by WHY Resources and the Osoyoos Indian Band.

My question to the Attorney General. Why is she letting this happen?

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert : Well, we’ve been clear. The people we work for are British Columbians. We’ve been

clear that the nations within B.C. are the ones that we also work with — as the member

mentioned, the Okanagan Osoyoos Indian Band — on these issues.

The member can google it. He can read the Hansard . He can watch television. We’ve been clear in every court of law that our obligation

is to British Columbia and British Columbians. And no, the First Nations across the

border may have their arguments, just as they do in Alberta and just as they do in

Alaska, and we’ll hear them just as we hear concerns from Washingtonians, Albertans

and folks living in Alaska.

That’s our obligation. That’s our duty. British Columbia is who we listen to.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Scott McInnis : Well, that was really interesting to hear the minister say that.

There is currently separate litigation against this project which has nothing to do

with constitutional duties to consult. Moreover, the project has already been approved.

This government, instead of standing up for B.C. resource projects co-developed with

B.C. First Nations, made a choice to allow a U.S. tribe being a respondent in this

litigation.

I have a letter penned to the Attorney General from Chief Louie and WHY Resources.

It says: “Your ministry consented to allowing the Sn̓ʕaýckstx Confederacy being named a party respondent.” Chief Louie further goes on to say:

“This is the furthest thing from placing the interests of B.C. First Nations as a

priority and primary focus.”

My question, again to the Attorney General, is very simple.

Is your ministry purposefully disrupting this project, or is this utter incompetence?

[2:20 p.m.]

Hon. Laanas / Tamara Davidson : Thank you to the member for that question. I’m more than happy to talk about the

environmental assessment office and the good work that that office does.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Laanas / Tamara Davidson : The environmental assessment office takes our obligations to consult with Indigenous

groups who may be impacted by a proposed project very seriously, including with U.S.

tribes. The EAO will continue to fulfil its constitutional obligations by consulting

with U.S. tribes when there is a credible assertion of Aboriginal rights under the

Canadian constitution and a potential for those rights to be impacted by a proposed

project.

As this matter is before the courts, I am not able to comment further.

Industrial Water Rates

and Watershed Protection

Jeremy Valeriote : Thanks to relentless lobbying, B.C.’s largest industrial water users get a huge discount.

You might even say that B.C. is co-governed with big industry. Mining, oil and gas

and bottled water companies pay a fraction of what residents pay for water. B.C.’s

industrial water rates are among the lowest in Canada at $2.25 per million litres,

and industry uses five times as much as residential users.

For the residents of Vancouver, leaving their taps running for over four months would

cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. The ten largest industrial water users

in B.C. pay less than $1 million combined for access to over 500 billion litres of

water annually. Quebec recently modernized their industrial water rates, and there

is no evidence of industrial flight.

My question is to the Minister of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship. We need increased

revenue to ensure the health and security of B.C.’s watersheds. In the midst of a

historic drought and major fiscal challenges, why is this government giving industrial

users a sweetheart deal?

Hon. Randene Neill : I thank the member opposite for the question. I know he cares as much for our watershed

protection as we do, as well, on this side of the House.

We know water is literally our most precious resource. It powers our province in so

many ways — from a sustainable, good economy; to ensuring that every single British

Columbian has access to safe, clean drinking water; to restoring our wild salmon populations

across the province.

The Water Sustainability Act was created back in 2016, where it set the rates for

how much users would pay for different water systems. That is something that we are

actively reviewing now as a province, looking at those rates. Every five years, we

put into legislation that it would require a review. The first review was deferred

because of COVID, so we are actively doing that now, reviewing rates to ensure that

we can get safe, equitable pricing for everyone who uses our water.

Another thing that we’re really proud of is our watershed security fund, a $100 million

fund that government committed to a few years ago and that helps ensure that our watersheds

remain safe and secure all across the province.

The Speaker : The member has a supplemental.

Government Policy on

Industrial Site Hazardous Waste

Clean-Up and Costs

Jeremy Valeriote : Thanks to the minister for that. I’m hoping that the results of that first review

since 2016 will be available soon.

In a similar vein, the public interest bonding strategy was designed by this government

to make sure industry cleans up the mess they so often leave behind. A 2021 briefing

note from this government admitted the province has no powers to make companies clean

up their industrial sites or to collect funds to have the public pay the costs if

they refuse. In the case of the Port Alice pulp mill, taxpayers are on the hook for

$170 million, and the site is still hazardous.

When industry walks away, the land must be returned to its original state or better

than it was originally. This government proudly introduced legislation in 2023 but

has never implemented it through regulation. Now the Ministry of Environment and Parks

admits the strategy has been shelved.

My question to the Minister of Environment and Parks: if you’re not going to implement

the public interest bonding strategy, how will you make sure heavy industry cleans

up the mess instead of leaving taxpayers holding the bag?

Hon. Laanas / Tamara Davidson : Thank you to the member for the question.

We do have many different tools in our toolbox when it comes to the polluter-pays.

And when we’re looking at the Environmental Management Act, we do have tools under

that act as well.

We are still going to keep looking at the public interest and bonding strategy. We’ve

been working closely with a lot of the ministries, such as the Ministry of Mining,

to look at different alternatives that we can be doing. I would say that it’s not

a matter of never doing it, but it’s a matter of when.

[2:25 p.m.]

Government Action on Homelessness

and Safety Issues in

Abbotsford Encampments

Bruce Banman : I stood up on April 1, and I told the Minister of Transportation about a fatal shooting

at an encampment on Ministry of Transportation lands in my riding. I told the minister

there were numerous dangerous encampments on MoT lands.

On Friday night, a man was murdered at the Peardonville homeless encampment, and the

unauthorized cabin he’d built two years ago was set on fire to cover up his murder.

Danger is increasing every day for people living in these encampments and the surrounding

community, while police are directed not to enforce no-camping bylaws. This House

should know this murder was preventable. This was someone’s son, who will be missed.

To the Minister of Transportation…. After I raised this issue in this House, this

minister chose to do nothing. This death is on this minister’s watch. My question

is: why did this minister do nothing and allow this to happen?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the question from the member, but I have to say the member is incorrect

and wrong, which is not something that is unusual in this House.

At the time, I told the member, in response to his questions back on April 1, that

I would be meeting with the city of Abbotsford. I met with the city of Abbotsford

and outlined to them the efforts being undertaken by my ministry and other ministries

involving the relocation of individuals who are engaged in camps of the work that’s

underway.

The Cole Road campsite, for example, is being shut down. We have been working with

Housing and the city of Abbotsford to ensure that we’re able to relocate those who

are camping in inappropriate places, such as this one, to more appropriate, like a

shelter.

I can tell the member that the Peardonville camp is going to be decamped and closed

down by the beginning of summer, but it will be done in an orderly fashion. To somehow

suggest that government didn’t bother to do anything and ignored the problem is simply

incorrect.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Bruce Banman : Nine long years to do something — nine long years.

Abbotsford police have said this was a targeted homicide. All of these vulnerable

people in encampments have fallen through the cracks, and this government has failed

to protect yet another. Encampment violence has become so rampant on Ministry of Transportation

lands. People are living in conditions where serious crimes are normalized.

My question to the minister. How many more murders need to happen in these encampments

before this minister does his job and allows the police to get in there and do theirs?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I appreciate the comments from the member because it gives me an opportunity to respond

to some of the statements that he has made. It gives me an opportunity to respond

to some of the votes that that side of the House has made.

For nine years, we have invested in public safety. We have done the largest investment

in policing in the history of this province — something, in the 16 years of the previous

government, that they failed to do.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh. Shhh.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : We have put in place additional funding for a gang task force. We brought in the

first forensic firearms office here in the province of British Columbia. We have brought

in place a witness protection program. All are things that police have been asking

for, and all are things that the previous administration failed to do every opportunity

they had.

Do you know what else? We’ve invested in affordable and social housing and mental

health care.

What’s really annoying is that every time that member stands up to say that we’re

not doing enough, you can point to another member on that side of the House who refuses

and complains about social housing or supports for the homeless and the mental health

and addiction supports required going into their communities.

[2:30 p.m.]

We have seen it, time and time again, from the hypocrisy on that side of the House.

Richmond could have had supportive housing to deal with the very kinds of situations

the member is doing.… What do they do? They stand up: “Not in our neighbourhood.”

That’s the approach that they’ve taken.

We will continue to invest in services. We will continue to support the police. We

will continue to work for British Columbians.

Food Bank Use and Government

Action on Issues

Lorne Doerkson : The Premier mentioned economic certainty a little earlier in question period today,

and I want to share some of the challenges that our residents are facing.

Food bank usage is the highest it’s ever been. Since 2019, food bank usage in this

province is up nearly 79 percent. That’s economic certainty. The numbers are staggering.

More than 1.3 million British Columbians are suffering from food insecurity.

What can the Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction say to the nearly

25 percent of British Columbians who are skipping meals because they can’t afford

them?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : The member and I share a concern about the cost of groceries, the terribly increased

cost of everything as a result of global inflation and, now laid onto it, the impact

of Trump tariffs.

That’s why it has been so important for our government, across the continuum, to have

increased income assistance, to have increased affordable child care, affordable housing,

increased supports for seniors, free prescription birth control — everything that

we can do on this side of the House to help people with the cost of living. That investment,

over the last nine years, has been important, and it continues to be a priority of

our work.

The member is certainly aware of the work that we’ve done as government to invest

in food security infrastructure, which is what the sector has asked us to do. Across

the province, thanks to the very innovative work of not-for-profits and community

organizations, using the support that we gave, to open up food warehouses, refrigerator

trucks, all kinds of food security infrastructure that is helping people right now

with the cost of living, with the cost of food and community resiliency…. That’s work

that we’re grateful to the not-for-profit sector to have partnered with us on.

The Speaker : Member for Cariboo-Chilcotin, supplemental.

Lorne Doerkson : What this member is very aware of is that if this government had fulfilled their

$1,000 grocery rebate and their income tax cut promises, some of these families wouldn’t

need the food banks today.

We’re going to see longer food bank lines with nearly 40,000 jobs lost in the past

two months. Hundreds of those jobs have been lost in Cariboo-Chilcotin alone.

And 31 percent of all of the food bank users last year were children. They’re children.

Absolutely unacceptable. It’s happening in our province under this government’s watch.

Will the Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction admit that more children

are going hungry every day under this government’s watch?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : Because, across government, we’ve been implementing British Columbia’s first poverty

reduction strategy — something that the old government refused to do — across the

continuum, we’ve got investments in young families. Our education system now, in every

school district, is funding again, in partnership with the federal government and

with school districts, in-school food programs. Extremely important.

The member knows that when the opposition was in power, they made life harder for

people…

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : …freezing income assistance at $610 a month for ten years, where we have increased

it 74 percent since then. I could go on all afternoon on the contrast and the continued

commitment that our government has to invest in people and make life better at an

extremely difficult time of globalization.

[2:35 p.m.]

Health Care Benefits for Nurses

Peter Milobar : Not one family going to the food bank is going to be helped with that word salad

from the minister, that’s for sure.

B.C. nurses are the backbone of our health care system, and without them, our troubled

system is on the verge of complete collapse. That’s why it’s astonishing that this

NDP government is cutting back on nurses’ essential health care benefits. Nurses are

stressed. They endure physical assaults, physical injuries from lifts, and instead

of supporting them, this government is cutting their registered massage therapy benefits.

Is the Minister of Finance really telling nurses that this government can’t afford

to pay for their essential health care benefits because of her fiscal incompetence?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The first thing, of course, that we all acknowledge is how important and highly valued

the nurses, working every day in our system, are.

This member knows that I can’t speak specifically to a situation that’s happening

at the bargaining table. What I will say is that on this side of the House, we are

deeply committed to making sure that we get a fair settlement to these nurses that

are so, so important to our system, and we’ll continue to do that work.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Peter Milobar : The minister doesn’t want to confirm that. She doesn’t want to confirm her $6,600

limo ride. She doesn’t want to confirm her deputy ministers and their car allowances.

You know, the problem is this government has so poorly managed their finances with

their own decision-making that they’re now coming for the extended health benefits

of B.C. nurses.

When we raise issues like this, they love to try to say: “Well, you guys would just

cut.” So let’s quote one of their members, from Esquimalt-Colwood, who says: “Members

opposite suggest otherwise. They criticize our government by spending. They don’t

explain how their own plans will even pay for it. I can tell you, as a health care

worker, exactly how they would pay for it — on the backs of those workers.”

Well, it seems like it’s this minister, this government, that’s actually making the

cuts on the backs, quite literally, of nurses.

Will the Minister of Finance admit she’s mismanaged the economy so badly they are

now pinching pennies and taking away critical benefits for nurses’ health and well-being?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : It is ludicrous to hear this member suggest that it is on this side of the House

that we are mistreating health care workers. I’ll tell you what.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : My very own grandmother was a cleaner in the Nanaimo hospital. She scrubbed the floors

in the emergency room, and you know what? At that time, people were paid union wages.

She raised, as a single mom, three kids on those wages.

What did the people on that side of the House do? They took those well-paying jobs,

and they privatized them. People who were making a decent living were making nickels.

You were there.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : You were there. You know what? You know as well as I do.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, shhh.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Members.

The minister has the floor.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I understand that this member is running to be the new leader, and he wants to distance

himself from the B.C. Liberals or B.C. United or whoever you want to call yourself.

But we know who you are, and the people in British Columbia know who you are. You

know what you did, and we know what you did. You’d do it again on this side, and that’s

why we’re over here.

The Speaker : Members and Ministers, all comments through the Chair, please.

Property Tax Deferment

and Homeowner Grant Programs

and Support for Low-Income Seniors

Brennan Day : It seems like we need to reset the speed limits on the highways in B.C. to 88, because

we continually keep going back to the future with this government. Their excuses….

You’re the government in power now, and you have to answer for your mistakes.

It’s not just nurses being attacked in this recent budget, by this government.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Brennan Day : It’s seniors across this province, living on fixed incomes, that rely on the property

tax deferral program to remain in their homes. In the city of Courtenay, changes to

the deferral program and the homeowner’s grant program will impact nearly 77 percent

of residents. If the minister wants to doubt that number, I encourage her to pick

up the phone or check her inbox and call the city of Courtenay.

[2:40 p.m.]

In the last year’s budget, the government claimed to support aging in place. We heard

it repeated in ministerial talking lines across the board. This year the absolute

opposite. This minister continues to discuss this NDP government and increasing the

costs of deferrals for seniors who are just trying to stay in their homes.

The Speaker : Question, Member.

Brennan Day : To the Minister of Finance: why not reverse these broad, damaging changes to low-income

seniors and move to a simple, income-tested model that protects the very people you

pretend to care for?

The Speaker : Member, through the Chair.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The changes that we’ve made in this deferral program are changes that are long overdue.

This program was designed to help keep seniors in their homes, but because the financing

was below what rates people could get in the market, it was being used by investors

instead of being used by seniors.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : We’ve adjusted this program so it’s still very reasonably priced, so it can stay

true to the intention of the program.

[End of question period.]

Peter Milobar : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not sure if you’d prefer that this be raised as a point

of privilege or just give the minister a chance to retract, but ministers of the Crown

should be factual and accurate when they are speaking in this House.

Given that I was never in government and that she repeatedly and continually makes

up alternative timelines in this chamber, how would you like me to proceed? A point

of privilege or the minister to start being truthful in this place?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : B.C. Liberal MLAs, candidates, leadership candidates and staff.

Surrey–White Rock, Trevor Halford, former B.C. Liberal MLA.

Interjections.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Pardon me. Excuse me.

Richmond Centre, B.C. Liberal cabinet minister.

Nechako Lakes, former B.C. MLA, former B.C. cabinet minister.

Abbotsford South, former B.C. MLA.

Delta South, former B.C. MLA.

Kamloops Centre, former B.C. MLA, former B.C. Liberal cabinet minister.

The Speaker : Member.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Courtenay-Comox, former B.C. Liberal candidate.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Kelowna-Mission, former B.C. Liberal candidate, former B.C. Liberal contestant.

I can go on.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Thank you, Minister.

Shhh, Members. Take a seat.

Members, come to order. Order, Members.

Members, when debate happens, all members have to be careful not naming anybody. It’s

important that we focus our debate on the issue, not on the individuals.

Question of Privilege

(Reservation of Right)

Peter Milobar : I’ll reserve my right of privilege, then, if the minister doesn’t want to be factual.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Member, shhh.

Members, question period is over.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

I think we are going to put a tent outside and have a free-for-all. Not in the House.

We are grown-up adults. Behave like adults, please.

Reports from Committees

Private Bills and

Private Members’ Bills Committee

Amna Shah : I have the honour to present the report of the Select Standing Committee on Private

Bills and Private Members’ Bills on Bill M217, intituled Dashboard Cameras in Commercial

Vehicles Act. The committee reports the bill complete with amendment.

The Speaker : Members, the committee report on Bill M217, Dashboard Cameras in Commercial Vehicles

Act, will be considered at report stage during private members’ time.

[2:45 p.m.]

Amna Shah : I also have the honour to present the report of the Select Standing Committee on

Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills on Bill M231, intituled Veterans and First

Responders Month Act. The committee reports the bill complete without amendment.

The Speaker : The committee’s report on Bill M231, Veterans and First Responders Month Act, will

be considered at the report stage for private members’ bills.

Question of Privilege

Dallas Brodie : I rise today on a matter of privilege under Standing Order 26. I believe that my

ability to function as a member of the Legislative Assembly has been directly obstructed

by the actions of an administrative body — namely, the Vancouver school board.

Recently my constituency office booked a public facility managed by the VSB, the auditorium

of Prince of Wales Secondary School, which is in my constituency. I’m holding a town

hall there to deal with private property rights, because I’ve been inundated with

letters from my constituents about this matter. The meeting was intended to fulfil

my primary mandate to hear from the people I represent and to discuss matters of importance

to my constituents.

Despite a confirmed booking, the VSB unilaterally cancelled this event suddenly on

late Friday night, and it’s supposed to happen this Saturday. This is not a mere contract

dispute. It is

an act of deplatforming an elected official and a deliberate barrier

placed between a member and their constituents.

I note that the letter sent to me by the VSB was not signed by anyone, let alone a

person in authority, so it is impossible to know whether the cancellation letter is

even legitimate. And clearly, someone is trying to avoid being named in this letter.

Parliamentary privilege exists to ensure that members can perform their functions

without fear of interference or intimidation. By denying access to taxpayer-funded

public space for the express purpose of a political town hall, the VSB is effectively

silencing the dialogue between the provincial government and the citizens of Vancouver-Quilchena.

When an administrative board, which derives its authority from provincial legislation,

acts to suppress the work of an elected member of that same province, it constitutes

a contempt of the constitutional role of this House.

The VSB decision sets a dangerous precedent. If a school board can decide which MLAs

are allowed to speak in public halls based on outside pressure, then no member in

this House is truly free to serve their community. It is without question that VSB

must abide by the principle of neutrality in circumstances such as this. It is not

acceptable for any MLA, regardless of party, to be denied the use of public buildings

for MLA functions.

Mr. Speaker, I move that this matter be referred to the Select Standing Committee

on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills to investigate

this interference in my constituency role and to reaffirm that the rights of an MLA

to assemble with their constituents must remain inviolable and free from administrative

censorship. I have provided your office with the correspondence from the Vancouver

school board detailing their cancellation, along with all the details of the contract

we had signed and paid for in advance.

We have had over 5,000 pieces of literature dropped by volunteers to avoid the expense

of mailing it out so that we didn’t have to pay for it. We’ve had volunteers dropping

letters specifically to people’s doors. It’s supposed to happen this Saturday. I have

two esteemed guests coming to speak, two high-profile lawyers from British Columbia,

and I can’t believe this is happening.

I ask that you find a prima facie case of breach of privilege.

The Speaker : Are there any other submissions on this question of privilege raised by the member

for Vancouver-Quilchena? If not, the Chair will take this under advisement.

Okay. The Chair will take it under advisement.

Orders of the Day

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this chamber, I call Committee of Supply on the estimates of the Ministry of Health.

In

Section A, the Douglas Fir Room, I call….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : No, estimates.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Members. Let’s not be cheeky.

Minister continues.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Thank you, hon. Speaker.

I would remind the House that the estimates of the Ministry of Health are one of those

chosen by the opposition to take place in this chamber. That is exactly what is happening.

In

Section A, the Douglas Fir Room, I call Committee of Supply, Ministry of Energy

and Climate Solutions.

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 2:50 p.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health

The Chair : Members, we’re going to call a brief five-minute recess while we await the team for

Ministry of Health.

The committee recessed from 2:50 p.m. to 2:57 p.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

The Chair : Members, we’ll call this chamber back to order, where we are going to contemplate

estimates of Ministry of Health.

On Vote 32: ministry operations, $35,968,875,000.

The Chair : Minister, do you have any opening remarks before we begin our estimates process?

Hon. Josie Osborne : I’ll just keep it very simple.

I want to introduce the team that I have with me today. I have Cynthia Johansen, Deputy

Minister of the Ministry of Health, and Rob Byers, who is acting associate deputy

minister in the ministry.

Behind me, I have Karina Sangha, who is the acting assistant deputy minister for corporate

services and executive financial officer; and Ross Hayward, the assistant deputy minister

for substance use, treatment and recovery.

The Chair : Thank you very much, Minister. Appreciate the opening.

Recognizing our member for Skeena.

Claire Rattée : Thank you, Chair. I appreciate it.

Thank you to the minister and all of her staff. I’m appreciating your guys’ time today.

I think we’ll just jump right in. I don’t necessarily have any opening comments.

The first thing that I wanted to cover off, though, is going back to last year’s estimates.

I had made some requests around the number of treatment beds relating to substance

use, and I was promised that I would get a copy of all of the beds broken down by

health authority, type of bed, all of those details. I was provided with it, and I

really appreciate it. I have it here from last year.

[3:00 p.m.]

I was hoping that I could start off by requesting…. It seemed like this was something

that was pre-prepared. If I could get a copy of that as soon as possible so that I

have time, before my time is up today, to be able to cross-reference the two. This

one was March of 2025, and I’m happy to provide that to the minister and her team

if she would like just so that she has a copy of what I’m looking for. Basically,

I’m hoping that we can get that over to me and my staff as soon as possible.

I believe I have roughly five hours for my estimates portion. I’m just hoping that

I could receive a copy of this in advance so that I have a bit of time to be able

to cross-reference the two. I’m just hoping. If the minister can let me know, please.

Hon. Josie Osborne : Welcome to our five hours together.

As well, I just want to say thank you to the member for Skeena. As a critic for mental

health and addictions, she’s been very good to work with. Despite the fact we sit

on opposite sides of this House, she and I have had a number of really excellent conversations.

I’ve had the opportunity to travel to her riding a few times and appreciate her real

dedication, commitment and passion for the file.

Yes, we’ll get you that list. We’ll try to do that this afternoon. I know that your

five hours will jump up to tomorrow too, so if there’s any holdup, I’ll let you know

as we go through the afternoon. But we’ll do that.

Claire Rattée : Great. Thank you to the minister. I appreciate that.

I feel the same. I feel like we’ve been able to work really well together, and I’m

hoping that this next five hours is productive.

I will hold off on some of my questions, those specific questions around the beds

for now, then, but if we can’t get a copy of that before I get to that section, then

I may have to use the numbers from last year and base it off of those.

I want to start off with a bit of some questions around psychiatry. I’m wondering

if the minister can provide me with how many patients are currently receiving care

through the forensic psychiatric system right now in British Columbia.

Hon. Josie Osborne : Just because I don’t want to hold things up…. We’re just consulting with the team

to try to get that number. I can read it into the record in a few moments, but we

might want to move ahead to the next question, and I’ll come back to this.

Claire Rattée : Thank you. I appreciate that.

A couple of other questions, then, that maybe could be answered simultaneously. I’m

also wondering how many psychiatric in-patient beds currently exist in British Columbia

within hospitals, how many of the psychiatric units are at capacity, on average, as

well as how many psychiatrists are currently practising in the public mental health

system in British Columbia and how many vacancies exist.

[3:05 p.m. - 3:10 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Sorry for the delay there as we tried to pull together all the different answers

to the questions. The question was on how many psych beds, hospitals and information

around capacity, as well as how many psychiatrists are practising and how many vacancies

exist.

I’m going to describe three types of mental health beds, one being community mental

health beds that provide mental health treatment and care for people in community

settings. This is outside hospitals. There are 19,579 of those beds. To be clear,

those include B.C. Housing, health services program units, long-term care, assisted

living facilities, family homes, rental subsidies, supported housing, emergency shelters,

other services. Those are beds that can be found in those kinds of facilities and

that are classified as community mental health beds.

There’s also an acute care system of mental health beds, where mental health treatment

and care is provided directly in acute care settings like hospitals that serve both

adults and youth. There are 930 of those. There are 952 non-forensic tertiary beds

— tertiary beds, a longer stay — and those are distributed in facilities across B.C.

I don’t have a specific number for the member on forensic psych beds, but I’ll take

that question on notice. I want to just note that these are very much kind of point-in-time

numbers and that the bed numbers do fluctuate because the service classifications

will change.

There are some routine contract amendments that can impact the designation of a bed.

There are community needs that fluctuate and change over time, but those acute and

non-forensic tertiary beds can be found in 77 designated mental health facilities

across B.C. Again, I know the member understands that these facilities can provide

both voluntary and involuntary treatment as well.

With respect to psychiatrists, the most precise I can be right now is to say there

are about 1,200 psychiatrists. This is a combination of full-time and part-time. These

are psychiatrists who work in hospital settings, in community settings, academic,

so they may not all be seeing patients, for example. I do not have an estimate of

how many vacancies exist at this time, but we will endeavor to get that for the member.

Then there was also a question around capacity. This is more challenging to answer

because hospitalizations are tracked, but the capacity or vacant beds at any one time

are just not tracked on a daily basis in that way, so it’s not it’s not really possible

to provide that number.

Claire Rattée : First of all, the community mental health beds. Based on the description provided,

I’m assuming these are not considered clinical in any way. They’re not receiving any

kind of clinical supports. These are just beds that are designated for people that

are struggling with mental illness or mental health issues.

Then with the questions around the usage of psychiatry beds, I think, effectively,

what I’m trying to ascertain is: are there beds that are designated as psychiatric

beds in hospitals throughout British Columbia right now that are not being used because

of staffing shortages?

[3:15 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : I appreciate the member’s intention here, just trying to understand staffing levels,

beds and ensuring that we are keeping pace with the need that British Columbians have

for psychiatric treatment and access to those services, as well as, as the number

of beds grows, that we are doing the work to recruit all of the staff that is required.

I would point out, too, that it’s beyond just psychiatrists but also mental health

nurses, registered psychiatric nurses and RPNs that are part of that workforce.

Because we work within the regional health authority system, we don’t have the easy

instant access to some of the information that the member is seeking. And because,

again, it’s a point-in-time count as to how a bed is being used and then how it is

staffed…. That makes it a bit tricky. But I absolutely acknowledge that rolling need

for continuous recruitment of specialists, psychiatrists being one of them.

I can say that in 2019-2020, if you look at the head count of the specialized workers

that are required and then compare that to 2024-2025, some five years later…. We have

kept pace with population growth — from 853 in 2019-2020, to 937 in 2024-2025.

[3:20 p.m.]

There’s always a lag in terms of the numbers that we have access to. To get information

for the most recent fiscal, ’25-26, takes a little bit longer.

But if that’s where the member is going, to talk about the importance of keeping pace,

I fully agree. That’s why we continue to do the work we have around training, recruitment

and retention of health care workers like the ones that are required for psychiatric

services.

Claire Rattée : Part of the reason I was actually asking the question is because I’ve heard recently

that there are psychiatric beds that are sitting unused in my region due to a lack

of staff, and that certainly does include both psychiatrists and also a lack of even

social workers, case management workers.

So the reason I was asking that is because I’m trying to better understand. Are there

beds that are sitting empty, and are there a significant number of beds that are sitting

empty throughout this province because we cannot staff them? Again, I know that there

are in my region. I’m just wondering how widespread the issue is.

I take the minister’s point that, certainly, the regionalized health authority system

has made things very difficult to track, so I’ll move on to another question.

I’m wondering if the minister could let me know, please, what the proportion of psychiatrists

is from, basically, rural and urban — between the two. I am just trying to get a clear

picture of how many there are in each region per population so that I can understand

if that distribution is equitable.

[3:25 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Okay, so I’ve got a little bit more information here.

I want to, first of all, just introduce another staff member who’s here supporting

me, Darryl Sturtevant. He is the assistant deputy minister for mental health and concurrent

disorders.

This line of questioning around psychiatrists and around the disparities between urban

and rural areas…. First of all, I just want to acknowledge that it’s well known that

it is more difficult to access specialists in rural areas of the province. It has

been more of a challenge to recruit and retain specialists in areas of the province,

and it’s something that I take very seriously, coming from a rural community myself

and knowing just how important it is for people to be able to have that kind of care.

I’m going to read into the record some of the numbers around psychiatry in the different

health authorities. I can tell you that in the Fraser Health Authority, there are

217 psychiatrists; in Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, 429; in the Interior Health

Authority, 95; Vancouver Island Health Authority, 160; and Northern Health Authority,

To the member’s point, up north particularly having the lowest number of provincial

psychiatrists available for people there, that means quite a bit of reliance on telepsychiatry,

on virtual services and on visiting specialists who come up and who come in to communities.

Again, just to point out that this includes psychiatrists who work across private

practice and hospitals and publicly funded programs. You cannot take the number of

people directly as equivalent to dedicated, clinical full-time equivalents in psychiatry.

I also wanted to just touch on the fact that while in-patient psychiatric services

are an important part of the health care system…. Earlier we were talking about mental

health beds in community, and this is also an important part of the mental health

and psychiatric care system. For example, last year I had the opportunity to visit

a facility in the Lower Mainland run by Coast Mental Health that is not an acute care

facility. These are community mental health beds, but they help house and provide

services to people.

For example, there are individuals living in this particular facility who are living

with schizophrenia, but they’ve got this stable housing. They’ve got the supports,

and this has enabled them to live in community in a way where they don’t need the

same kind of access to those acute psychiatric services that we are, I think, mostly

talking about here.

I know the member knows — we’ve talked about this many times — there is a real continuum

of care when it comes to the services that people need. It certainly has been a dedicated

focus of this ministry and of this government to continue to build out those beds

in all places — be it community, be it acute, be it tertiary, be it complex or concurrent

disorders, both voluntary and involuntary care — to make sure that people have access

to the care that they need.

Claire Rattée : I appreciate the minister’s comments on that and recognizing how much disparity there

is between the different regions. I know that based on the numbers that we had already

pulled, it is a rate of three times higher in urban areas for access to psychiatrists.

When you pull out just my health authority, obviously, that becomes significantly

worse.

My question is: what is there in this year’s budget that the minister is trying to

do to fix that issue?

[3:30 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : The work that the ministry is doing, funded through this year’s budget, as it has

been in previous years, around recruitment and retention activities, when it comes

to all health care workers, is, I think, relevant to this conversation.

Let me speak, first of all, just to psychiatrists. Just to remind the member — I’m

sure she already understands this — that UBC is the only faculty of medicine here

in British Columbia that delivers our province’s psychiatry residency program.

[3:35 p.m.]

There are about 30-odd, a little bit more than that, entry positions that are offered

across Vancouver, Fraser, Island Health, Interior and Northern training sites. So

it’s an important part of the training system that psychiatry residents have the ability

to go out into different parts of the province.

We know that when people train here in B.C. or in communities, they are much more

likely to stay here in B.C. or in these regions. That’s why a dispersed model of education

like this is a really important part of the training that specialists and family doctors

receive.

Again, coming back to the fact that there are multiple different types of positions

that are important in psychiatry and mental health altogether, I want to point out

the work, the minimum nurse-to-patient ratio commitments, that our government has

made. When it comes to staffing units and, over the coming months and years, being

able to meet these ratio commitments, this will be a really important part of the

recruitment work into smaller communities, into more rural sites.

As well, the expansion of initiatives like the Red Fish Healing Centre in Coquitlam

and looking at facilities in Surrey. More notably to the member’s location in the

province, Prince George is offering involuntary as well as voluntary care, offering

some specialized psychiatric care there.

Simply having a facility like that, knowing that we can recruit psychiatrists to work

in such a place with a full team of people, is an appealing part of making a decision

about where to live and work in this province. So the infrastructure side of recruitment

is an important part of this as well.

I’d also point to investments in hospitals like the Ksyen Regional Hospital in Terrace,

like the Nats’oojeh Hospital in Fort St. James, new clinics, new hospitals, renovated

facilities that provide more opportunities for people to access care, be it virtually….

Having a telehealth room or centre set up within these facilities for visiting psychiatrists

or virtual psychiatrists or other mental health workers, psychiatric nurses and the

like to be able to provide those services is an important part of it, as well as our

commitment to continue to expand access to mental health services right in primary

care.

We have about 350 full-time-equivalent psychologists working in primary care systems,

working in health authorities — again, full-time-equivalents. That’s an important

part of expanding that access and having a more holistic, if you will, primary care

system that provides that kind of care for people, as well as clinical counselling

and other community-based forms of counselling and making that more easily accessible

for people. The point is to intervene early and try to prevent problems from getting

worse, growing bigger to a point where, for some, more acute psychiatric care is required.

The last thing I want to say around this is the exciting prospects that are being

seen through the U.S. recruitment campaign and the work that’s being done by communities

with unions, with health authorities and through the province, through our Health

Match B.C. site and program. The reason why this took so long to get numbers is because

I was trying to get an exact number on the number of psychiatrists that have signed

job offers who are coming up from the States. It’s not zero, but I don’t have the

precise number in front of me.

Over the past months and weeks, and even just the past couple of weeks, I’ve been

doing a lot of travelling and talking with local government leaders, talking to them

too about sitting at that team B.C. table, particularly in rural and more remote areas,

to not only understand what the challenges are that they are hearing from specialists

such as psychiatrists but all health care workers in making the move into smaller

communities.

Really thrilled to see the way that local governments are stepping up to that table.

Burns Lake is an example of a community that has gotten a lot more engaged in physician

recruitment. That’s a positive sign. Whether it’s family doctors or nurses, mental

health counsellors or psychiatrists —this is the approach we have to continue to take,

because we want to make sure that no matter where you live in British Columbia, people

have access to the health care that they need.

Claire Rattée : I appreciate that. The main reason that I am focused on psychiatrists right now is

because I’m focusing on our public health system and what can be accessed through

MSP for people that are struggling. That’s why I wasn’t focusing on psychologists

and counsellors. That is a separate conversation.

[3:40 p.m.]

I’m going to move on to another question that I have. The minister had mentioned non-forensic

tertiary. I don’t have a health background. I’m not entirely clear on what that is.

But my question was: how many beds exist right now for long-term psychiatric hospitalization?

I’m wondering if that is what that category would be.

If so, I understand that every case will be unique, but I’m trying to get a better

feel for whether or not we have the capacity within our system currently to be able

to serve people that maybe have either brain injury or mental illness and that cannot

live in community — what that capacity within our system actually looks like. How

long can we house somebody like that?

I don’t think it’s appropriate for somebody to live in a hospital that is like a general

hospital for the rest of their life if they are unable to live in community. I take

the point about mental health beds in community. I think that that is important. I

think that’s always the goal, that we get people to a place where they can live in

community.

The reality is that we have thousands of people right now that are living in community,

on the streets, that shouldn’t be. They’re struggling with severe mental illness and

acquired brain injuries or both. We don’t seem to have a system in place that can

care for them long term. So I’m hoping that the minister could touch on that, please.

[3:45 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : I think the best way I want to tackle this question is around a bit of the continuum

or types of care that are provided for people with psychiatric challenges. We already

canvassed this around acute mental health beds, for example, and I listed that there

were 930 of those in the province, acute care being that two weeks to 30 days of stay

in an acute care facility for stabilization and the urgent treatment that somebody

would need during that time.

Now, some people are discharged, and others need longer-term care. That is where the

tertiary beds come in that I was speaking about — typically, a three- to nine-month

stay, again, often in a hospital-like setting, if not in a hospital itself.

Then I was speaking about the Red Fish Centre in Coquitlam, where even one step further….

We’ll call them quaternary beds. These are beds where there’s a very high level or

high intensity of services that a person requires. To be clear, people can step down

or step back up. As the member knows, it’s not a straight-line journey for everybody.

When Dr. Vigo began working with the ministry and providing advice, this really was

around what I think the member is getting at. There is a small group of people who

are experiencing severe mental illness together with substance use issues — opioid

use disorders, for example — as well as acquired brain injury and are not in a position

to seek care and stay in care themselves. These are folks who need support. They need

stabilization and treatment as best as can be provided for people. That is beginning

to happen in a more concerted way here in the province.

Now, since the closure of Riverview and, of course, the public health emergency that

we’re currently still in around illicit drugs and the ever-evolving contaminants and

adulterants that are found in the toxic drug supply, we are seeing, sadly, a number

of people who do survive overdose, for example, and then they have that acquired brain

injury that — together with mental illness, together with their substance use challenge

— makes life extremely challenging.

It’s important that we care for these people. It’s important, too, that we care for

the communities and neighbourhoods where they live. The type of disorder that has

been seen on streets and the discomfort that people experience is all part of this

and why Dr. Vigo has been providing this advice on how to identify and enumerate these

individuals and then what kind of care can be provided.

Now, part of those recommendations is around building out approved homes. Spiritwood,

as the Alouette Homes are now called — they’re called Spiritwood, out in Maple Ridge

— are exactly an example of this.

This is 18 beds. I have visited the facility myself just before it opened and before

patients came on site, and it’s very much the home-like setting that the member is

speaking about. Everybody has their own bedroom. They have access to a kitchen and

facilities that are needed, but they have the intense supports and services that are

needed to help provide the ongoing psychosocial supports, particularly around helping

to manage problem behaviours that would make it not possible for these individuals

to be living in community.

That being said, there are plans to expand this model of care and approved homes throughout

the province. As we’ve canvassed here in this chamber before, I’ve spoken about not

only that but the expansion of the facilities that are provided at the Surrey Pretrial

Centre. Again, this is not a long-term stay. This is for people in remand or people

who are incarcerated to be able to have access to the urgent psychiatric and mental

health services that might be needed, especially when experiencing those concurrent

disorders.

I do want to again differentiate from other individuals in British Columbia that for

different reasons — for example, developmental challenges — are not able to live independently

and that through the Ministry of Social Development and Poverty Reduction and through

Community Living B.C.….There are other avenues and access for people to live in who

find themselves in that circumstance.

But to the member’s point, I know she’s made this clearly. We’ve talked about it before,

and we agree that there’s a need for more of these types of approved homes, more of

this type of concurrent disorder treatment and recovery centres. That’s why this year’s

budget has $131 million specifically towards building out that system of care.

We’ll continue that work right now, investigating sites in Prince George and in Surrey,

but eventually coming also to Interior Health and to the Island, to make sure that

British Columbians have access to that kind of care that’s closer to home than is

currently provided mostly in the Lower Mainland.

Claire Rattée : I appreciate that answer because I think that all of those things that were highlighted

are incredibly important, and they are part of what we need to be building out.

My concern and my frustration is that none of those, still, are long-term, permanent

solutions. Again, it’s a small portion of the population, but it’s a population that’s

growing every single day in this province. At this point, it doesn’t seem like we’ve

found a solution to actually help people that are suffering like that.

In that same vein, I would like to ask some questions around brain injury specifically.

My first question is if the minister has access to at least a rough estimate of how

many people are currently living with an acquired brain injury right now and how many

of those are due to overdose. I’m asking “if” because if the minister has it readily

available and can provide it, I would appreciate that. If not, I would like to understand

why we haven’t made an attempt to understand that number.

I don’t want to hang up too much time on this, so if it’s not something that’s readily

available, I’m happy to get that at a later date. But I’m just hoping that this is

something that we have begun the process of trying to actually understand.

How many people are currently living with an acquired brain injury, and how many of

them are due to repeated overdoses?

[3:55 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

First of all, I just want to address a comment the member made about permanent solutions.

I think that’s exactly the journey that we’re on, particularly with Dr. Vigo.

Knowing that approved homes have been built in Maple Ridge and that there are intentions

to expand that type of housing for people who are not able to live on their own and

who do need those intense psychosocial supports to help manage problem behaviours

that simply are not acceptable to have in community or out in the public…. That’s

exactly an example of the type of permanent solutions and provision of treatment and

care and support that we are undertaking. I would disagree with the assertion that

there are not solutions being sought.

Again, I do want to say thank you to Dr. Vigo for the type of focus and intention

that he has been able to provide government by taking, literally, a deep dive into

these very numbers that the member is asking about and identifying not just the number

of persons who are living with brain injury, which could be from a variety of sources….

I think the question here was specifically around people living with brain injury

as a result of overdoses from the toxic drug supply. Because Dr. Vigo is actively

working on this right now, I cannot provide a precise number, but what I can do is

make a commitment to the member to follow up. I think it would be very beneficial

to help her understand some of that work that Dr. Vigo is doing.

Already we know that it is fewer than 1 percent, fewer than one-tenth of a percent

in fact, of people in B.C. who are living with the concurrent severe mental illness

and acquired brain injury and substance use challenges. So it is a very small proportion

of British Columbians, and those individuals need this type of help that we have been

focused on.

We are also doing everything we can to avoid getting into this situation in the first

place, and that’s been a very big part of the ministry’s focus — again, on the entire

continuum of mental health and substance use care and treatment that is available

for people, as well as all of the intervention and prevention work. As we understand

and we see in society, it is….

Youth, for example. It’s a really challenging time to be a young person and experience

the kind of pressures that people are feeling, particularly since COVID, when we know

a lot of gaps were identified. We see the struggles that people are facing.

That’s why increasing access to counselling, building out Foundry, establishing integrated

child and youth teams in schools, undertaking education and prevention programs in

schools…. That’s why we need to do more work to normalize these conversations and

to reduce the stigma around mental health and substance use issues so that people

feel safer, they feel more welcome, and they feel it is easier to ask for help and

to access that help.

It is just as important, if not even more important, to be doing that work concurrently

with the work that we have to do to serve people who do experience substance use disorders

and severe mental illness and those who do have acquired brain injury. I can’t answer

a question just about this one group of people without speaking to all of the rest

of the work that is a part of this ministry and a part of our government’s work.

Claire Rattée : On the topic of doing everything possible to prevent this issue from happening….

I have some questions later on about naloxone, but I can’t pass this opportunity up

right now.

One of the things that, it seems to me, would be a really obvious place to start if

we’re trying to prevent that would be properly educating the public on the dangers

of using naloxone.

[4:00 p.m.]

I want to be very clear when I say that I’m not advocating against the use of naloxone.

I’m advocating for increased public education around the fact that just because you

can reverse the effects of an overdose does not mean you get away scot-free.

At this point, I have seen no evidence that that work has been done or undertaken.

It could be as simple as some kind of a little information card, distributed with

a naloxone kit, that warns people about the dangers of repeated overdoses that are

reversed by naloxone.

This is a very serious issue. This is something that we’re seeing playing out across

the province. It’s only getting worse. In my mind, it doesn’t seem, at this point,

that enough people are properly educated on the fact that, yes, there is a way to

reverse an overdose, but that does not mean that there is no harm created by that

overdose that you have reversed.

I’m particularly concerned about that given the fact that we are pushing naloxone

in schools. We are educating students about naloxone, but that work is not being done

concurrently with explaining what happens when you end up with an acquired brain injury

due to a repeated overdose. You know, there are people that are overdosing right now

several times a week, and I have a lot of concern around the fact that we’re not properly

educating people about this. It seems like, in some ways, this may have, unfortunately

and inadvertently, fuelled this crisis, because we have a way to reverse an overdose.

Obviously, I’m grateful for it, and I want to make that completely clear. I think

that is important, and it’s life-saving medication. That still doesn’t change the

fact that when somebody stops breathing, their brain doesn’t get oxygen. If you do

that enough times, what quality of life is there left when we don’t, at this point,

have a really concerted strategy around how we’re handling that?

I would like the minister to just touch on that, please — around whether or not this

is something that’s actually being considered and whether or not we’re going to incorporate

that into naloxone training, to make sure that people understand the true dangers

of repeated overdoses that are reversed.

[4:05 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : First of all, I want to talk about the purpose of naloxone being literally a life-saving

measure, a harm reduction measure that keeps people alive in the event of an overdose

and that can reverse some of the impacts of that overdose. It has never been the intention

of having the presence of a tool like that to be something that somehow enables people,

particularly people experiencing a severe substance use disorder, to use substances.

It’s not a terrific comparison, maybe, but just like having a seatbelt doesn’t mean

you should go really fast in your car, having a seatbelt can still save your life.

Having naloxone on hand has saved thousands and thousands of lives.

We know that overdose, repeated overdose, significantly increases the risk of brain

injury. The intention, of course, always is to work with people to try to get them

connected to care in a way that they can transition from illicit street drugs to something

that is safer to use while they deal with the addiction and move into other forms

of medication, treatment and, hopefully, as I think is the goal of most if not all,

to a place where they are no longer using substances.

I point to the work that has been done over the last ten years with the expansion

of the availability of naloxone, noting that at the time when the public health emergency

was declared ten years ago, you could only access naloxone through a prescription.

We are now distributing millions of kits every year. They are available in thousands

of different places out in community and are easily accessed, particularly by those

who are providing care, those who are involved with people who use drugs.

[4:10 p.m.]

Its presence, as I said, has literally saved lives. Part of the work is understanding,

to the member’s point, education around the use of naloxone — how to identify the

symptoms of overdose, how to use it correctly. That is a part of the work that we

are doing.

So in the overall budget, for example, $85 million is being spent on the take-home

naloxone program over three years. Just under 20 percent of that is dedicated towards

evaluation, education, reporting, as well as the overhead and supplies that are required.

I also want to point out the really amazing work of Chloe Goodison, from the NaloxHome

program, as a youth herself working with schools, working with youth groups, to again

help decrease some of the stigma around having conversations about substance use,

about being able to identify the symptoms of overdose and how to correctly use naloxone.

Again, it’s there as literally a life-saving measure to help keep people alive, whether

they are regular drug users, whether they are one-time or occasional drug users. In

the case of an opioid addiction or other substance use disorder, to have access not

only to naloxone but other harm reduction measures, be it overdose prevention services;

be it the Lifeguard connect app, so that people are not using alone; drug-checking

sites to look at what might be in illicit drugs that have been sourced off the street,

for example….

We know that these are life-saving services, which is why we continue to support them.

At the same time as we’ve been talking about in estimates so far here, the work done

to help treat people with substance use disorders, the work to help people avoid becoming

in that situation in the first place — it is all an important part of this work. I

appreciate the question from the member.

Claire Rattée : I just want to underscore again that as I said, I do fully recognize that this is

important life-saving medication. I’m not advocating that we get rid of it. I don’t

know what the solution is. But if you look at it — correlation, causation, whatever

you want to call it….

As the minister pointed out, naloxone was not widely available at the beginning of

this crisis, and the numbers were not what we’re seeing today, not even close. I do

have concerns that when you remove some risks from risky behaviour, you increase the

likelihood that people are going to engage in that risky behaviour. It’s just a fact.

It’s something that I could personally attest to as somebody that has experienced

addiction. Had it existed and been widely available when I was struggling with addiction,

it might have removed some of the risk for me. I can say that very confidently. Would

I have recognized at 16, 17 years old that that would also increase the risk of me

developing an acquired brain injury that would permanently disable me? Probably not.

I do have some concerns around that, and that’s where I’m just really hoping to try

and underscore here the need for education around that. It’s as simple as…. You know,

we put warnings on cigarettes now so that every time somebody smokes one, they can

remember that there is an inherent associated risk.

So obviously, it’s not that naloxone itself is risky. It’s the act of overdosing that

is risky This will save your life, but, hopefully, next time you might think twice

before engaging in that behaviour again and just reach out for some help instead.

I do think that needs to be the end goal, that we’re trying to get people to a place

where they are not engaging in those risky behaviours anymore.

I have a question around hospital beds and how it relates to this. I’m wondering if

the minister could let me know how many beds, on average, in hospital are tied up

with psychiatric or acquired brain injury patients at alternative level of care that

are waiting for discharge. They need an alternative level of care. They’re waiting

for discharge, maybe an alternative level of care that we just don’t have access to

or we don’t have enough of. I’m curious how often that is happening and how many beds

are getting tied up with that.

[4:15 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Sorry for the delay. We are trying to get the number, and we will get it. But I just

thought we would advance the questions because I didn’t want to take up more time

waiting.

Claire Rattée : My next question is actually around complex care housing, so it’s switching gears

a little bit, but I’ll just read it in now.

[4:20 p.m.]

According to one of the minister’s own briefing notes, it says: “Complex care housing

prioritizes harm reduction, respecting resident autonomy and the right to live at

risk and use substances.” There’s also in that briefing note that as of December 31,

2024, 527 people had access to complex care housing services, with 49 percent of those

being in supportive housing units.

My question is: why are complex care housing units in buildings with supportive housing

in the first place? Essentially, why are people with complex mental health and substance

abuse issues housed with people who don’t fit that criteria? Does this not make outcomes

for those that are in supportive housing units potentially worse? And why is substance

use being allowed in those units?

[Mable Elmore in the chair.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you for the question about complex care housing. I want to just talk first

a little bit about what it is, because I see we’re joined by some guests in the gallery

— hello — and then address the question that the member brings forward.

Complex care housing is part of our response. As the toxic drug crisis increased in

complexity and we were seeing the impacts on people, we knew that there was a need

for housing that provided a higher level of health supports to people living there.

Complex care housing has been a mandate priority both for the Ministry of Health and

the Ministry of Housing and Municipal Affairs and previous iterations of that ministry

since 2020.

[4:25 p.m.]

It’s part of the response as well to the homelessness action plan, belonging in B.C.;

and the housing plan of the government, Homes for People. Again, that’s led by the

Ministry of Housing and Municipal Affairs.

What complex care housing does is provide on-site and enhanced health services to

people who have very significant health needs, be it mental health and substance use

issues, and people who are particularly at risk of homelessness.

The sites, which in phase 1 began as additions to existing supportive housing sites

— currently 623 people are housed in these units — were very rapidly implemented.

Phase 2, which is underway now, sees 120 new units that are proceeding right now in

Kamloops, Kelowna, Nanaimo, Prince George, Vancouver and Victoria, with the first

site in Prince George in 2026. The rest are coming along — that provide dedicated

services.

To the member’s point, there are units of complex care housing that are provided inside

or adjacent to or within supportive housing, and then there are those that will be

specialized, dedicated and stand-alone complex care housing sites.

Hon. Lisa Beare : I seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

Hon. Lisa Beare : In the gallery, just joining us today is Experiences Canada, which is a national

registered charity that helps young Canadians 12 to 17 years old explore their country

in ways that they have never imagined. We’ve got a great delegation here with us witnessing

the estimates of the Ministry of Health.

I’d like the whole House to join me in welcoming them.

Debate Continued

Claire Rattée : I appreciate that overview, and I am heartened to hear that we are focusing on trying

to build that out as a stand-alone service. But what I didn’t hear in there was why

we are allowing and encouraging ongoing use of substances within these facilities.

It’s just an odd one to me, because I would think with it falling under the purview

of Health that the focus would be on the client’s health that’s living in those facilities.

I would think that part of that would be somewhat of a targeted way to try and prevent

further harm coming to them and to their health.

I’m just trying to better understand that. I mean, obviously, I understand supportive

housing does not fall under Health. I’ve had those conversations with the minister

responsible there, and I disagree with the use of substances in those facilities.

But in these ones, specifically, where these are people that are at severe risk, people

that are obviously struggling with concurrent challenges that are very severe in nature,

I would just hope to better understand why specifically in that briefing note it stated

that we have to effectively do everything we can to allow somebody to continue down

that path.

[4:30 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : I’m going to address this question by focusing my comment on one of the central tenets

of the work that we do, and that is that addiction is a health issue.

First and foremost, one of the things that people need is stable housing — a place

that is safe to call their home, to enable them to literally be in a place where they

can form relationships with care providers, a place where they can know they have

a safe place to sleep, a place to have a shower, a place to get good food, a place

to receive care.

Addiction, being a chronic relapsing disease, is something where, if we get to the

point of tying housing to abstinence and not allowing…. And I will take exception

to the member’s characterization of enabling or encouraging substance use. This is

not at all about encouraging substance use. This is about acknowledging that people

have substance use issues and that they deserve safe, adequate housing as well.

When people are able to build trust and form those relationships with people, they

can begin to have those conversations, those connections to points of care that enable

them to begin to address some of the underlying reasons why they might be suffering

from an addiction and to address underlying traumas and other reasons why they are

in the position that they are.

I think we would all agree in this House that everybody deserves a safe place to call

home and that we need to do everything we can to prevent or lower the risk of returning

to homelessness, of living on the streets, of being unhoused and, instead, help stabilize

people in their life so that they can get access to the care that they need.

Claire Rattée : I guess this is just one of the areas that the minister and I disagree on. I take

exception to calling it a chronic relapsing condition, as somebody that has experienced

addiction myself. I have no interest in using drugs ever again, nor will I call myself

a recovered addict for a reason. So I don’t believe that we can just simplify it like

that. But that’s maybe an ideological difference, and I recognize that, and the minister

is the one that’s in charge of this, so that is her determination on it, and I respect

that.

I just personally take offence to this briefing note that says that they prioritize

harm reduction, respecting resident autonomy and the right to live at risk and use

substances. Maybe I am misunderstanding the target demographic for the complex care

housing.

My understanding was that these were people that were experiencing not only substance

use disorders but also severe psychiatric illness, also acquired brain injury, people

that I would think would be precisely the type of people that would fall under the

category of who we are aiming the whole concept of involuntary or mandatory care around,

people that are experiencing repeated overdoses in a week — that sort of population.

In my mind and in my experience, these are people that directly would benefit from

some intervention because they have, in most cases — and again, this is a very small

population, but it still exists, and they’re still people that deserve to live with

some dignity in their lives — lost the ability and the autonomy to make decisions

that are in their best interest for their health.

[4:35 p.m.]

My hope was that the purpose of this housing was to try and find a way to intervene

and to provide them with options to be able to live a stable and normal life with

dignity. So prioritizing the ongoing use of substances, to their detriment, in my

mind, is precisely the issue that I’ve been speaking about around warehousing addiction.

And I agree. Housing is an important part of recovery. It’s an important part of anyone’s

life, and everyone deserves to have access to housing. But when we’ve got complex

care housing where this is prioritized and it’s also being mingled in with supportive

housing, with people that don’t struggle with substance use…. Again, to my previous

comment, that puts other people at risk, and I think that we need to be very careful

about that. You can’t just prioritize one group over another for safety purposes and

their right to have a safe place to live.

Regardless, I do recognize that this is something that ideologically I think we feel

differently about, and I can respect that because, again, I am not the minister, so

this is not up to me. I just wanted to make sure that that was clear and on the record.

I want to move on to a recent coroner’s inquest. I apologize. This question may be

a little bit lengthy, and there may be a couple of questions in here. But I think

for time’s sake, it makes sense for me to go through this all as one question and

allow the minister to provide a response.

There was a recent coroner’s inquest in Prince Rupert into Christopher Duong and psychiatric

hospitals. He was placed on a 24-hour involuntary psychiatric hold and released under

the Mental Health Act, days before he and his family were found deceased in Prince

Rupert. In February 2026, the coroner’s inquest into the case provided nine recommendations,

six of which are directed at the Minister of Health and her portfolio.

Recommendation 1 specifically directs the Minister of Health to change the involuntary

admission form, allowing an apprehending police officer to indicate their contact

information on the form and, if requested, requiring hospitals to inform the officer

on the discharge of a patient admitted under

section 28 of the Mental Health Act.

My question on that piece is: is the minister planning on implementing this recommendation,

and if so, when can we expect to see this change on the form?

My next one…. Recommendation 2 states: direct resources towards expanding the number

of hospitals that offer psychiatric and mental health resources and services. Experts

and psychiatrists across the province have been urging for more psychiatric staff

in general hospitals, in addition to building actual psychiatric hospitals. We have

no psychiatric hospital currently.

Will the minister commit to implementing this second recommendation and investing

in psychiatric hospitals in B.C.?

Recommendation 3 states: investigate ways to improve follow-up and wraparound services

to patients following discharge from involuntary admission under the Mental Health

Act.

My question on that one is: does the minister intend on implementing this recommendation,

and if so, can the minister provide context on the methods and timeline for this investigation?

And what oversight and guidance will the minister be providing on recommendations

6 to 8, which are directed at Northern Health Authority and Prince Rupert Regional

Hospital? Is the minister implementing a deadline for when the Prince Rupert Hospital

must meet recommendations 7 and 8?

[4:40 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The Chair : This committee stands adjourned.

The committee rose at 4:41 p.m.

The House resumed at 4:41 p.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Mable Elmore : Committee of Supply,

Section B, reports progress on the estimates of the Ministry

of Health and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Debra Toporowski / Qwulti’stunaat : Committee of Supply,

Section A, reports resolution and completion of the estimates

of the Ministry of Energy and Climate Solutions and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Hon. Jessie Sunner : In the chamber, I call Committee of Supply, continued estimates on the Ministry of

Health.

In

Section A, I call Committee of the Whole on Bill 16, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment

Act.

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 4:42 p.m.

[Mable Elmore in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health

(continued)

The Chair : Okay, we’ll call the committee to order. We are undertaking Committee of Supply for

the Ministry of Health.

On Vote 32: ministry operations, $35,968,875,000 (continued) .

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Before we move to the work of the coroner, I wanted to just come back again to the

discussion around complex care and appreciate the differences in perspectives that

the member and I may have.

But I want to be very clear. The member was speaking about those individuals who are

experiencing concurrent disorders of severe mental illness and acquired brain injury

and substance use disorders. That is, indeed, a very unique part of the population,

one that requires appropriate housing and treatment and has been a focus of this government.

[4:45 p.m.]

Complex care housing. Perhaps we could just think of that a little bit as a step down,

and we are talking about, again, people who are unhoused or who are at severe risk

of homelessness needing access to stable housing in order to be able to stabilize

and have that connection to care.

Any person is…. The scheme that we have under the Mental Health Act here in the province

of British Columbia means that individuals who do meet the criteria outlined in the

act can be held involuntarily for a shor