Manitoba Hansard — 10 July 2000 (Sitting 58, 37th Legislature, 1st Session)

37-1-58

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session- Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. L No. 58- 1:30 p.m., Monday, July 10, 2000

Member AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve. Hon. ASPER, Linda BARRETT, Becky, Hon. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUA Y, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, Hon. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry FAURSCHOU, David FILMON, Gary FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESHAMMER, Harold HEL WER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKI. Bonnie LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. LOEWEN, John MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWAY,Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon.

MITCHELSON. Bonnie NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, Hon. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITH, Joy SMITH, Scott STEFANSON. Eric STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charleswood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Tuxedo Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La V erendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virden Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Lac du Bonnet Transcona Southdale Rupertsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Rossmere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Kirkfield Park Dauphin-Roblin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. PC . P.C. P.C.

N.D.P. N.D.P. PC . P.C. P.C. P.C. PC . N.D P Lib. P.C. PC . N.D.P. N.D P N.D.P. N.D.P P.C. 1\/.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P.

371 1 LEGIS LATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, July 10, 2000 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Committee of Supply Mr. Conrad Santos (Chai rperson): Mr. Speaker, the Committee of Supply has adopted certain resolutions, directs me to report the same and asks leave to sit again. I move, seconded by the Honourable Member fo r Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), that the report of the Comm ittee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): would like to table the 2000-200 1 Revenue Estimates Supplem entary In fo rmation for Legis lative Review fo r the Department of Finance. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Supplem entary Inf ormation fo r Legislative Review of 2000- 2001 fo r Community Support Programs; and in addition, I would like to table the Supplementary Inf ormation fo r Legislative Review 2000-200 1 Departmental Expenditure Estimates fo r Sport. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conser vation): Mr.

Speaker, I am pleased to table the 2000-200 1 Department Expenditure Estimates fo r the Department of Conservation. Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the 2000-200 1 Departmental Expenditure Estimates fo r the Manitoba Status of Women. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Government of Manitoba Respect for the Law Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (Interim Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is fo r the First Minister, and I am not sure where I begin.

Under the leadership or lack thereof, the First Minister, over the last nine months, has proven that Today's NDP is just like yesterday's NDP. We are seeing this Premier fo llow in the fo otsteps of his mentor, Howard Pawley, and we all know what happened to Howard Pawley. Specifically, under this Premier's leadership, we have seen staff break the law, and he has done nothing about it. Mr. Speaker, we have seen under his leadership a fiasco created in the aboriginal casino issue, which has done a disservice not only to aboriginals but to all Manitobans.

Under his leadership, he has em barrassed his own Minister responsible for Gaming (Mr. Lemieux), and he has had to resign. Under his leadership, we have seen a new minister appointed fo r gaming, who has public opinions, has stated time and time again that he is opposed to gambling. Under his leadership, he has allowed his Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin) to break the law and then to break his comm itments to Manitobans by not allowing fo r consultation regarding Bill 5. Under his leadership, Mr.

Speaker, we have seen very regressive labour legislation intro duced that has said to small business owners in Manitoba that Manitoba is clo sed fo r business. Under this Premier's leadership, we have seen, in the first budget, that Manitobans now have the

3712 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10 , 2000 distinction of being the highest taxed citizens across the country. Mr. Speaker, under this Premier's leader ship, he has allowed his Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) to create anxiety and apprehension in the education system by, without consultation, threatening fo rced amal gamation on school divisions. Under this Premier's leadership, we have seen his Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) break election promises that he made. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker, fo r calling members of the Government to order. These are very important and very serious issues, and I would hope that they would want to listen very carefully to the comments that are being made, because Manitobans are concerned. * (1 3:35) Under this Premier's leadership, we also this will be my last point, Mr. Speaker-have seen no assistance whatsoever to Manitoba farm fam ilies that were devastated in 19 99. I would lik e to ask the Premier (Mr. Doer): When will he, his ministers and his staff begin to show some respect fo r the laws of this province and fo r the citizens of Manitoba? Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the people of Manitoba showed respect fo r the law and the outcome of the Monin inquiry when they changed the Governm ent on September 21 . The people of Manitoba are appalled to hear that members opposite, who promised us a new regime of ethics, are back in alleged glue again with what has happened again allegedly in the Interlake, and we await the final report of the Chief Electoral Officer. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We came fo rward with five commitments.

We are continuing to implement those five commitments fo r the people of Manitoba. The feedback we have is obviously from the public of Manitoba: "Stay the course," unlike the previous government, "k eep your promises." We plan on keeping our promises. We are working on keeping our promises, and we are very delighted, in spite of the criticisms of the members opposite, to see, on Friday, a 4.4 percent unemployment rate. We think that is in the right direction. Mrs. Mitchelson: The First Minister certainly has taken no respo nsibility with that answer. Premier of Manitoba Apology Request Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (Interim Leader of the Official Opposition): Quite frankly. the arrogance that is displayed by this Premier speaks to his government and his actions. My question fo r the Premier is: Given that he is the First Minister of this province and has responsibility fo r managing the aff airs of this province and showing some leadership, will he apologize to Manitobans fo r the arrogance that they have displayed and the lack of leadership that he has shown? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, this is a government that keeps in tune with the people of this province, works tirelessly on their behalf.

We will ensure that the policies that we develop are consistent with the hopes, desires, dreams of Manitoba fam ilies around the community clubs of Manitoba, not around the Manitoba Club. Government of Manitoba Respect for the Law Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (Interim Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, Mr. Speaker, again, I am sure that Manitobans do not agree that this government is keeping in line with the wishes of Manitobans when they continually flout and break the law, when we have seen a minister of this Crown have to resign fo r the first time in over a decade, fo r the first time-

July 10 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3713 Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. We all know that there has not been a minister in this province that has had to resign since this Premier sat around the Cabinet table with his mentor Howard Pawley.

I would ask this First Minister, this Premier, this leader of our province: Given that he has already flou ted the laws and broken the laws in this province, will he guarantee to Manitobans today that into the future he will no longer continue to portray this arrogant attitude and continue to break the laws? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, telling the truth is very important, and one of the reasons members opposit e fo und themselves in such difficu lty is, when they came fo rward with their so-called 50-50 plan, over 50 percent of Manitobans did not believe them anymore.

I want to correct a number of inaccuracies from the Member opposite. One is, when the previous Minister of Finance had some questions about fam ily relationships with the Linnet file, the file was moved to another minister. We thought that that made sense. The Minister was still a member of cabinet. * (13:40) This minister is still a member of cabinet. That is a factual error that the Member opposite does not recognize.

We also thought that when the Minister of Finance and a family member held the golden share and there was a huge, huge opportunity fo r pecuniary gain fo r individuals because of the stock option to board members that were appointed by the previous government, there should have been a separation of those responsibilities. We are very, very consistent in what we are saying, and we are very confident that we are not perfect but working tirelessly on behalf of the people of Manitoba.

Our leadership candidates do not get fixed in the Manitoba Club and have no ballot to them, an undemocr atic organization, as members opposite. Agricultural Disaster Assistance Cost-Sharing Program Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to welcome back the Minister of Agriculture from her trip to negotiate a new safety net program for farmers in western Canada. I understand that she and her collea gues met in the Maritimes, and they came up with a new agreement.

I was wondering whether the Minister would be able to inform this House as to the specifics of the enhanced agreement that she has negotiated fo r farmers in this province. Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct.

I have just come back from signing a framework agreement with the other ministers of Agriculture across the country, but the details of the agreement and the fu nding fo rmula fo r the agreement were made available to the public in March when we indicated at that time that we were changing to a new funding fo rmula, not at the request of Manitobans but at the request of other provinces. Our level of fun ding will be maintained fo r the next three years, and we will be having a review of the program after the next three years. Funding is the same as it used to be.

Unf ortunately, other provinces will have an increase in their fu nding and be able to offer more enhancements in their programs than we will be here in Manitoba because the previous government began the process of negotiating to have our funding fo rmula changed to having our funding based on cash receipts rather than risk, Mr. Speaker. The federal government agreed with that fo rmula. Mr. Jack Penner: I would like to ask the Minister, Mr.

Speaker, whether she could confirm that Quebec received a 38% increase in their funding for their farm income, that Ontario received a 28% increase in their funding fo r their farm program, and that British Columbia received a 92% increase in their program. Could the Minister tell us what the increase in funding to Manitoba farmers will be? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, we spent over 50 hours in discussion in Agriculture Estimates. This issue was raised many times, and we

3714 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10 , 2000 discussed it with the Member. I indicated to him very clearly that was one of the very serious problems with the negotiations and moving towards fu nding based on cash receipts rather than on risk. As a result, other provinces will get a lot more money. Manitoba's funding was supposed to drop by $10 million. We were able to maintain that level of fu nding. There is no increase fo r Manitoba.

He should talk to the previous Minister of Agriculture because he is the one who was also in those negotiations where the move started towards funding based on cash receipts rather than on risk. Mr. Jack Penner: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Minister would be able to then concede that negotiations on behalf of Manitoba farmers have failed miserably. I wonder what kind of action she is now going to introduce in this province to bring us up to the same level of funding and support mechanisms that others are receiving in their provinces.

I wonder whether she could tell us whether she and her government are now going to be will ing to put their hands in their pockets, as other governments have done, as Quebec has done and Ontario has done, to support the increased fu nding that she has lost in negotiations fo r farmers in Manitoba. What kind of program is she now going to initiate in this province to bring us up to par? * (13: 45) Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, the Member says that the negotiations were not successful. I have to tell him that he is wrong. The position that we went into those meetings on-Manitoba was supposed to lose $10 million.

We were able to maintain Manitoba's fu nding at the level that it is and ensure that we get a review after three years to look at the impacts of this change. The change moving towards cash receipts is wrong, but eight provinces were supporting it. The federal government supported it. [interjection] The Member questions whether I walked out of the meeting. We walked out of the meeting because we were going to lose $10 miilion, and because we walked out of that meeting, because I walked out of that meeting, we were able to maintain that $1 O-m iii ion level of funding fo r Manitobans.

We are not going to be able to of fer the kinds of enhancements that other provinces will, and that part of it is not fair. First Nations Casinos Moratorium Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker. a new medical report published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal calls fo r a nation wide moratorium on gambling expansion because of its addictive nature, especially fo r Aboriginals. The report. authored by Dr. David Korn, states that Aboriginals, women. young people and cultural minorities run the greatest risk of becoming addicted to gambling.

I would like to know if the new Minister of Gaming will fo llow the report's recommen dations and put the entire new casino expansion process on hold until Doctor Korn has carried out more research. Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister charged with the administration of The Gaming Control Act): I think it is important to note that I actually have had the opportunity to read the report rather than the news report. In fact. what the report calls fo r is a balance. It does not call fo r a moratorium.

In fact, much of what is in place in here in terms of moratorium has nothing to do with anything that is reported in the news story. I said to the Member opposite what we have done is we have learned from the experience of the 19 90s. and our approach to First Nations casinos builds in a community role in terms of whether those casinos will proceed in those communities, builds in an addiction portion, recommenda tions, by the way, which are in the report. So we are in fact living up to many of the things that Doctor Korn calls fo r in this particular report. Social Costs Mr.

John Loewen (Fort Whyte): I am pleased that the Minister has read the report. Maybe he can read the report from Alberta, the Alberta study that shows that, on average, youth are two and a half times as likely to get addicted to gambling as anybody. I would ask the Minister, based on that report, based on the research that has been done

July 10 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA 37 15 in Alberta where it states clearly in that report that more st udies need to be done before gambling expansion is undertaken, will this minister conduct a study on how gambling is going to aff ect the quality of lif e on reserves and the social impact of those that are addicted to it. * (1 3:50) Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister charged with the administration of The Gaming Control Act): Mr.

Speaker, it is interesting that Doctor Korn actually, and this is in the news article, in addition to the report, points to the fact that there are many economic advantages and potential economic advantages fo r First Nations. What I want to say to the Member opposite is one of the key things we are doing here is we are bringing in, I believe, something that should have happened in the 19 90s. By the way, they increased VL Ts by 26-f old in the 19 90s.

I say to the Member opposite we are learning from the mistakes of the previous government, we are building in a community input mechanism, and we are building in, up front, an addictions fo undation fo r Aboriginal people. That is something we learned fr om the mistakes of the previous government. Moratorium Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, I would ask that member to also read the Anglican Journal once in a while and study those reports.

I would ask him if he agrees with the statement made by the Archbishop that when you base your economic development plan on gambling, you are asking a community to make part of its living by persuading people to gamble more and to lose more. I would ask the Minister: Why will he not stop gambling and listen to the research? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister charged with the administration of The Gaming Control Act): I sometimes wonder about the consistency of members opposite, and I particularly noted the comments from the Member fo r Lac du Bon net (Mr.

Praznik) who stated: We got the sense, in our latter days, we were reaching or had reached the saturation point. I would like to point out for the record that that min ister and that government in its dying months increased the numbers of VL Ts on First Nations communities by 65 percent, so we do not need any lecture from members opposite. What we are trying to do in this government is get a balance, the same kind of balance we see in other areas such as liquor.

We need regulation, we need community input, we need recognition of the social costs and the fact that First Nations people should have the same opportunities that that government had before in terms of some of the economic advantages. First Nations Casinos Audits Mr. Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): I would start of f firstly by congratulating the Minister of Highways and Transportation fo r his appoint ment to these additional responsibilities. Mr.

Speaker, the new minister speaks about a balanced approach in this particular area, and obviously an important part of the balance is the safeguards to ensure that the benefits he talks about actually make their way to those that he intends. Given that the previous minister, who resigned last week, would not commit to value fo r-money audits of where the dollars were actually spent, I would like to ask the new min ister if he is prepared to provide that very important safeguard to First Nations people in committing to value-f or-money audits on how the proceeds of these casinos will be spent. Hon.

Steve Ashton (Minister cha rged with the administration of The Gaming Control Act): Mr. Speaker, we see, again, they start of f in Question Period by opposing the First Nations casinos. Now they move into the operation of them.

I want to assure the Member opposite that what we have built in place with the RFP, with the process we put in place, which is a very rigorous process, and in particular the fact that we are having the Gaming Commission, which, by the way, was set up by the previous government in response to the recommendations of the Desjardins report, something we supported when we were in opposition -what we are setting up is a very rigorous process that will ensure, in fact, that the benefits do go to First Nations communities. I want to say one of the

3716 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July I 0, 2000 lessons we learned from the mistakes of the previous government is that 70 percent of the benefit will go to the First Nations proponent and 30 percent will go to a trust fund that will include action on the social costs of gambling. We learned from the mistakes of the previous government. Mr. Praznik: In the interests of helping the Minister (Mr. Ashton) make another mistake, he just told this House that 70 percent of the proceeds are going to go to the host community. Is he telling us now that none will go to the management companies?

I want to ask him: What restriction will he put in place to ensure that the management companies are not taking the 30 percent or 40 percent that we understand they have been attempting to negotiate? Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, if the Member will do one thing, I think, and read the RFP and read the report that has come out, he will see, and I give the fo rmer minister a great deal of credit fo r this, we will have one of the most rigorous, if not the most rigorous, processes that has been put in place.

By the way, we are learning not only from the mistakes of the previous government but what has happened in other jurisdictions. One thing I want to assure the Member and all members of this House and the people of Manitoba is, by having this operated with the Gaming Control Commission, we are going to ensure the maximum amount of benefit goes to the host, the proponent communities and the remaining recipients of the trust funds. We are going to make sure that there is extensive scrutiny of all aspects of the gaming.

Once again, I think that is learning from the mistakes of the previous government, from other jurisdictions. Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, the Minister will have the chance to put his actions where his words are. The Saskatchewan government did something very similar. Their auditor is now telling them that they should require value-f or money audits on how the proceeds are spent.

Given what happened with the Saskatchewan Government Gaming Authority, some one-third of a mill ion dol lars going into expenses, I would ask the Minister again: Will he commit to learn from the mistake of Saskatchewan and commit here today to ensure that there is value-f or money audits so that all First Nations people can have a clear and transparent understanding of where this money is being spent, and are they getting value fo r it? * (13 :55) Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, I look to my colle ague the Minister responsible fo r Lotteries (Ms. McGif fo rd). You want to talk about value fo r money here.

Whatever happened under that previous government to the massive overruns in terms of the costs of the casino expansions? I mean, talk about saying one thing and doing another. I want to assure the Member opposite that, through the process we have put in place, one of our main goals is to avoid the mistakes that they made with our own casinos as a provincial government and ensure, indeed, that the maximum amount of benefit goes to the First Nations proponents and the recipients of the trust fund which, by the way, will ensure the benef its of this go to every First Nations community in the province of Manitoba.

Labour Relations Act Amendments-Secret Ballots Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister of Labour (Ms. Barrett) shamefully introduced some of the most antidemocratic legislation that this House has ever seen. Intrinsic to any true democracy is the right to a vote, a secret ballot. Not only does this government have no r�spect fo r the business community in Manitoba, they have lost all respect fo r democracy. My question fo r the Minister is: What have Manitoba workers done to deserve your government taking away their right to a secret ballot? Ron. Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): Mr.

Speaker, last week we introduced what we believe is a very reasonable and balanced set of amendments to The Labour Relations Act. Over the last almost 30 years, either in practice or legislation, there has been some fo rm of automatic certification for contracts-<>r for union certification. It is only since 19 96 that there has

July 10 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 37 17 been a vote required in all circumstances over 40 percent. So we are fo llowing 30 years of practice and legislation. Mr. Schuler: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Labour and all the fo rmer union leaders seated on the Government benches, why are you turning your backs on the workers of Manitoba and revoking their right to a secret ballot? Which group is next? Whose rights are going to go next with this government? Ms. Barrett: Mr.

Speaker, when over 65 percent, two-thirds of the vote of the employees in a workplace, sign a card saying they wish to belong to a union, we believe that is a very, very clear sign of the workers' democr atically chosen position. That is why we are putting back in place an automatic certification process that. in practice and legislation, has been in effect in this province fo r the last 29 years. with the exception of fo ur years under the fo rmer government. Mr. Schuler: Mr.

Speaker, can the Minister inform this House exactly when during the provincial election or when during the economic summit was this discussed? Can she confirm that her actions have made the letters NDP stand fo r non-dem ocratic party or no democracy, please? Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, as I answered the first two questions. this is a return to the practice and legislation that was in eff ect in Manitoba through the Ed Schreyer years, the Howard Pawley years, through all of the fo ur years of the Sterling Lyon Progressive Conservative govern ment and through eight years of the fo rmer government.

So this is not an antidemocratic process. This is a return to what has been standard procedure, in practice and legislation, over the last 28 years. Urban Planning Policy Adult Businesses Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, my question to the Minister of Intergovernmental Aff airs: Many Winnipeggers and Manitobans with children are concerned about the Government's urban planning policies which permit the location of adult businesses, adult bookstores, videos, museums like the museum of Manitoba where children frequent. * (1 4:00) As Trish Masniuk has pointed out, and she is here today, carefully performed studies in other jurisdictions show there is a higher incidence of crimes in such zones.

When will the Minister of Intergovernmental Af f airs act to protect children in this province by creating an urban planning policy with green-light zones fo rbidding adult businesses within 10 00 feet of day cares, museums and other sites where there is a high intensity of children. Hon. Jean Friesen (Minister of Intergovern mental Affairs): I thank the Honourable Member fo r that question.

It is clearly a matter of concern to people in many parts of Winnipeg, as indeed in other municipalities as well, and it is a matter of very serious concern, but I am sure. as the Member understands, this is primarily an issue fo r the planning by-laws of the City of Winnipeg and of other municipalities. I know the citizen that the Member has made reference to has certainly made those representations to the City of Winnipeg. Mr.

Gerrard: Ma question supplementaire: Puisque c'est possible pour elle de fa ire des changements a Ia legislation, dont Ia legislation touchant Ia Ville de Winnipeg, quand est-ce que Ia ministre des Aff aires Intergouvernementales mettra en place une politique de planifi cation pour les regions urbaines du Manitoba pour proteger nos enf ants? [Translation} My supplementary question: Since it is possible fo r her to make changes to legislation, including the legislation concerning the City of Winnipeg, when will the Minister of Inter governmental Af fairs put into place a planning policy fo r the urban regions of Manitoba to protect our children?

Ms. Friesen: Je voudrais remercier le depute pour cette question et je voudrais souligner pour le depute que c'est une question tres importante pour le gouvernement aussi.

37 18 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July I 0, 2000 Mais je voudrais dire au depute que Ia responsabilite de moo ministere c'est d'assurer que Ia planification de Ia Ville de Winnipeg est en bonne forme. Nous avons !'occasion de faire des representations a Ia Ville de Winnipeg et nous avons fait cela au sujet de Ia planification de Ia Ville de Winnipeg qui est en cours a present. Merci. [Translation] I would like to thank the Member for that question, and I would like to emphasize for the Member that this is a very important matter for the Government as well.

But I would like to tell the Member that the responsibility of my department is to ensure that the City of Winnipeg's planning is appropriate. We have the opportunity to make representations to the City of Winnipeg, and we have done that on the subject of the City of Winnipeg's plan which is currently in process. Thank you. Mr. Gerrard: My second supplementary is to the Minister of Family Services. I ask the Minister when he will act, since his colleague is so equivocal about doing anything, to protect children in Manitoba? Hon.

Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): I think that there are all kinds of places in which we act together, both with our urban planning colleagues and with our Health colleagues, with our Justice colleagues, through the Healthy Child Initiative, through the interdepartmental committee on the sexual exploitation of children. All of the work that we do in this regard, we work together as a government. We work in a number of ways which I think are quite innovative with our Healthy Child Initiative. I agree with the Member.

We need to work very diligently to help protect our children and our families against unreasonable abuse and the kind that he is alluding to. But I think that our government has shown, through the initiative, that we are committed to working together with each other to protect our children and protect our families, and we are doing that. Youth Unemployment Rate Provincial Statistics Ms. Nancy Allan (St. Vital): My question is to the Minister of Labour. During the election campaign last September, the colleagues and members on this side of the House pledged new hope for young people.

Can the Minister of Labour inform the House how the recently announced unem ployment statistics will affect Manitoba youth? Hon. Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): thank the Honourable Member for St. Vital for that question because it provides me with the opportunity to share with all members of the House and all Manitobans some very. very encouraging news on the job front, on the unemployment statistics, especially for young people. We have just found out that in June the jobless rate for youths between the ages of 15 and 24 is the lowest in the country.

It is 7.9 percent for the month of June. well below the national average of 1 1. 8 percent. I would just like to say that the unem ployment rate of 4.4 percent overall in the province of Manitoba has not been this low since August of 1976 under the Schreyer government when it was 4.3. Thank you. School Divisions Amalgamations Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Education, after being caught saying one thing one day about school division amalgamations and then the very next day saying something completely opposite, got himself so wrapped up in speaking out of both sides of his mouth that he actually hid from the media and refused to be interviewed. Hopefully, his press secretary will not deny access to him today. Will the Minister, for once. provide clear direction to school divisions on what he is looking for in regard to amalgamations so school boards have a plan to work with and an understanding of what government wants them to achieve?

July 10 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3719 Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education and Training): I suppose at the outset I should comment on the tremendous success that the Member had in having Stockwell Day elected to the Canadian alliance reform party last week. I know that the Member has worked diligently for Stockwell Day over the last number of months, and his success is noteworthy in the province. As for the amalgamations of school divisions, of course this has been an issue that has been before the public and school trustees since 1994 and the release of the Norrie commissiOn report.

The position of the Government has not changed. We are seeking divisions to work very assiduously with their neighbours in realizing efficiencies and realizing resource management that will put more resources into the classrooms of the province of Manitoba, as opposed to the administration of those classrooms. Mrs. Smith: Mr.

Speaker, will the Minister tell Manitoba teachers if his government's plan includes compensating the teachers for mileage and moving expenses as a result of his forced amalgamation directive, when they are required to travel long distances or actually move residence so they have close proximity to their work? Mr. Caldwell: Of course there is no forced amalgamation in process. The Member repea tedly puts that on the table as fact. What we are interested in is having some real movement on this issue, something that has not occurred in the last six years.

The people of Manitoba expect their tax dollars to be spent as efficiently as possible. They expect their education tax dollars to be spent in the classrooms of the province of Manitoba and not in the administrative boardrooms of the province of Manitoba. We will proceed with that agenda, Mr. Speaker, in the best interests of the children of this province. Mrs. Smith: Mr.

Speaker, will this minister tell the House if he is concerned that, according to the Manitoba Association of School Trustees, divisions may forgo some teacher transfers that would have benefited children because they cannot afford to pay compensation? Mr. Caldwell: Of course, Mr. Speaker, issues of collective bargaining that take place within school divisions are the purview of the local teachers' association and the school division in question. * (14 :10 ) Hypotheticals of that nature are beyond the scope of this minister or anybody in the province to hypothesize about. I can tell you, though, Mr.

Speaker, that the repeated year after year after year of cuts, steady, consistent cuts, minus, minus, minus over the last decade by the members opposite have put the property taxpayers on the hook for the single largest explosion of property taxes in this province's history, and we are determined that that will not occur under this watch. Overland Flooding Disaster Assistance Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): As a result of last Thursday evening's heavy rains and the previous rains during the past three weeks, hundreds of Manitobans are cleaning up flooded homes and businesses.

Overland flooding is a very real problem in communities such as Winnipeg, Headingley, St. Andrews, West St. Paul, Steinbach, La Broquerie, Portage and others. Flood victims and municipalities are trying to restore some order. For example, the Rural Municipality of Headingley is examining whether to pass a resolution declaring this event to be a disaster. Mr.

Speaker, as rural municipalities pass resolutions requesting disaster assistance, will the Minister responsible for Emergency Measures tell this House whether the disaster financial assistance arrangements program will be activated to deal with the problems created by these recent rains? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Highways and Government Services): I appreciate the Member raising the concerns. In fact, EMO has been in place in a number of municipalities already. We are certainly aware of the difficulty people faced in those communities, and as is the normal process with Emergency Measures, we

3720 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July I 0, 2000 will be working with the municipalities and determining whether indeed it will proceed to that step, but EMO has been there in place working with the affected municipalities. We certainly appreciate the difficulties people are faced with currently. Mr. Helwer: Will the Minister responsible for Emergency Measures tell us whether this disaster financial assistance program will also be made available to the city of Winnipeg under similar disaster declarations? Mr. Ashton: We are currently reviewing all the evidence we have, all the situations that are out there.

As the Member will know, the first reaction in terms of EMO is to get in and work with the affected communities. It is, of course, triggered by the communities, the municipalities which play the lead role, I might add, in terms of Emergency Measures. I will be dealing with my department later, in particular with EMO, to determine the exact impact and will report back to the Member as we get further information. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Pipes and Drums of Manitoba Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): Recently I had the opportunity to attend the Lundar fair.

It was one of many events of summer that had to contend with the rain, but I am happy to report that the wet weather did not deter residents of Lundar from taking

part in the well-planned activities. I was particularly impressed with the performance of the Pipes and Drums of Manitoba whose members arrived early in Lundar to take

part in the celebrations. Their flexibility and generosity with their time was evident as they patiently accommodated changes in time and venue necessitated by the rain. The Pipes and Drums of Manitoba were established in the early 1950s by a dedicated group of musicians from across Winnipeg who wished to preserve this part of Scottish culture. Members of the Pipes and Drums proudly wear the Manitoba Tartan and represent our province at events around the world, most notably at world curling championships in Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, and right here in Manitoba.

I would like to take a moment to salute the members of the Pipes and Drums of Manitoba and to congratulate their president, Don Mcintyre, a resident of St. James constituency, on their dedication to Scottish heritage and their contribution to our province. I certainly enjoyed listening to the skirl of the pipes in Lundar and look forward to hearing them perform again. Thank you. Strawberry Production Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): Mr.

Speaker, it is a real pleasure for me to be able to rise today on a member's statement and to offer to each member of this Legislature a little taste of Portage Ia Prairie. The strawberries in front of each honourable member are a freshly grown sample of Portage Ia Prairie's ever-increasing commitment to crop diversification. As has been the case, I understand, by a tradition established by our former member for Portage Ia Prairie, Mr. Ed Connery, the berries are courtesy of the Honourable Member for Portage Ia Prairie.

Over the last two decades, strawberries have become a prominent part of Portage Ia Prairie's agricultural scene. There are now dozens of strawberry farms in the region, with over 70 acres devoted to strawberry production. Nowhere else in the country is there an abundance and such a concentration of strawberries as there is in Portage Ia Prairie. As such, the city has earned the title Strawberry Capital of Canada. The label is well deserved, as evidenced in 1988 when Portage Ia Prairie entered into the Guinness Book of W arid Records with their giant bowl of strawberries weighing over 1500 kilograms.

This year strawberries are once again featured at the Strawberry Festival which is held in conjunction with the annual Portage Ex. I had the distinct pleasure of making a few remarks at

July 10, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3721 this event this weekend, as it just happens to be the 128th edition of the continuous Portage Ex. The strawberries that you have here today, I wish you all the very best, and it is my pleasure to provide. Thank you. Bill and Michael Bilous Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): I would like to rise today to recognize the efforts of Bill Bilous and his son, Michael, in Assiniboia. These fine gentlemen have been spending a great deal of effort coaching and promoting the development of a soccer program in Assiniboia.

These two have spent countless hours working with the youth, age 10 boys, in developing skills and, more importantly, a very, very positive attitude. This year they played out of Assiniboia West Community Club, and they coached a team called Impact, 1 0-year-old boys. They played indoor soccer. Sixteen boys played. In the previous year they had zero wins, this team. This year, with a lot of practice, a lot of dedication and a lot of commitment, they became B side winners. That was really important. This past summer is the first time St. James ever entered the A league in soccer.

The team combined Kirkfield, Woodhaven, Assiniboine West boys, 33 boys tried out, and 16 eventually joined the team. They had an excellent attitude. They had great parental support. They had a really good spirit. Michael and Bill told me that the kids go to practice, they try hard and they give it their all. Anyhow, they were undefeated in league play, and they had a great, excellent year. I would like to thank and congratulate Mike and Bill Bilous for the thousands of hours they have donated to their community, their community-minded spirit, commitment and dedication to the future of our province.

I would like to thank Michael who has played in the premier league for Winnipeg Dynamo, and has represented the province in soccer. He really leaves an excellent legacy. Thank you. Vincent Massey Collegiate Graduation Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday, June 28, I had the opportunity to attend Vincent Massey Collegiate's graduation ceremonies. Nearly 300 students received their diplomas, and many were honoured with awards for their outstanding efforts.

It was a real joy to watch so many bright and talented young people being recognized for successfully completing this all-important stage of their lives. I was particularly proud to personally present an award to one very special young woman, Miss Melanie Clark. She was awarded the first-ever Joy Smith, MLA Performing Arts Award which is presented to a graduating performing arts student who has shown leadership in the school and has made an outstanding contribution to the performing arts.

Melanie was a most deserving recipient for this award, being such a positive asset to the performing arts program at Vincent Massey Collegiate. Her participation in the school dance program spring musical and her work on the student council were important factors in her selection. I want to take this opportunity to say how proud Melanie and all of her fellow graduates can be of their accomplishments thus far and congratulations to the principal and to the staff and teachers at Vincent Massey. I want to wish them all the best in the years to come. * (1 4:20) Sustainable Development Strategy Mr.

Scott Smith (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to stand today to put on record this government's sustainable develop ment strategy. Unlike the previous Conservative government, our government has taken the necessary first steps toward developing a policy that will ensure implementation of sustainable development principles and guidelines in everyday workings of government. Mr. Speaker, our government believes that the principles of sustainable development need to be considered within the larger decision making framework.

With the recent acceptance of the COSO I recommendations our government will be better suited to make decisions in a more co-ordinated, comprehensive and integrated manner. This will prove to be a welcome change from the previous government who was eager to

3722 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10, 2000 preach the advantages implicit within the sound sustainable development policies but failed on several occasions to comply with their own sustainable development strategies. It is important to ensure that our economy and our environment grow in a responsible and sustainable manner and that the needs of the present are met without sacrificing the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. As responsible stewards, we must ensure that the benefits of a healthy environment and a healthy economy continue to grow in a sustainable fashion.

With the recent changes introduced by our government, Manitobans can be assured that future generations will have access to a healthy environment we enjoy today. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Committee Ch anges Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Portage Ia Prairie (Mr. Faurschou), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: the Honourable Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) for the Honourable Member for Portage Ia Prairie (Mr. Faurschou) and the Honourable Member for Arthur- Virden (Mr.

Maguire) for the Honourable Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan). Motion agreed to . ORDERS OF THE DAY Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I wish to obtain the unanimous consent of the House to vary the sequence for Estimates consideration, to consider in Room 254 the Estimates of the Department of Conservation to follow after consideration of the Healthy Child Initiative Estimates, and these changes are to apply until further notice. Mr.

Speaker: Is there unanimous consent for the House to vary the sequence for Estimates consideration set out in Sessional Paper No. 138, and subsequently amended, to consider in Room 254 the Estimates of the Department of Conservation to follow after the Healthy Child Initiative Estimates until further notice? [Agreed } Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, move, seconded by the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin), that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) FAMILY SERVICES AND HOUSING Mr. Cha irperson (Harry Schellenberg): Order. please. Will the Committee of Supply come to order. This afternoon, this

section of the Committee of Supply meeting in Room 254 will resume consideration of the Estimates of the Department of Family Services and Housing. When the Committee last sat, there had been agreement to have a global discussion with the understanding that the order in the main Estimates book would be followed, and all lines and resolutions would be passed following completion of questions and answers. Is that still the will of the Committee? [Agreed} When the Committee last sat, discussion had been centred around 9.4. The floor is open for questions. Hon.

Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): I believe it would be agreeable if we might start with the resolutions of 9.2, if that is acceptable, and pass a bunch of those until we get to whatever point the critic wishes to stop at. That would give your voice a bit of a break. Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Any order that would be agreeable to the Committee. Line 9.l.(

a) Minister's Salary, if we leave that open, and the Healthy Child Initiative; other than that, I am prepared to pass the rest. Mr. Chairper son: I understand there is general agreement to pass some of these lines starting with Resolution 9.1, leaving out the Minister's Salary.

July 10, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3723 9. 1. Administration and Finance (

b) Executive Support (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $566,90 0-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $80, 700-pas s. 9. 1.(

c) Social Services Advisory Committee (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $208,200- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 58,900-pass. 9. 1.(

d) Human Resource Services (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,085,300- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 25,600-pass. 9. 1.(

e) Policy and Planning (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $979, 1 00-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 78,50 0-pass. 9.l .(

t) Financial and Administrative Services (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,422,000- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $480,500-pass. 9. 1.(

g) Information Systems

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $2,451 ,600-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 ,563, 500-pass. 9.2. Employment and Income Assistance (

a) Program Services (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $21 ,392,000- pass;

(2) Other Expen ditures $7 ,896,6 00-pass. 9.2.(

b) Income Assistance Programs (1 ) Employment and Income Assistance $263,399, 300-pass;

(2) Health Services $3 1 ,5 12,700-pass;

(3) Municipal Assistance $4,916, 700-pass;

(4) Income Assistance for Persons with a Disability $1 2, 173 ,400-pass. 9.2.(

c) Building Independence $3, 175,000- pass. 9.2.(

d) Income Supplement Programs (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $594,600-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $327,900-pass;

(3) Financial Assistance $8,335, 1 00-pass. Resolution 9.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $353,723,300 for Family Services and Housing, Employment and Income Assistance, for the fiscal year ending the 31 st day of March, 2001. Resolution agreed to. 9.3. Community Living (

a) Regional Operations

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 5,828,000-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $2,426,400-pass. 9.3. (

b) Adult Services (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,723,800-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 ,575,900-pass;

(3) Financial Assistance and External Agencies $94, 179,900- pass. 9.3.(

c) Manitoba Developmental Centre (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $23,490,700- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $3,076,70 0-pass. 9.3.(

d) Residential Care Licensing (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $245,500-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $35,900-pass. 9.3.(

e) Office of the Vulnerable Persons' Commissioner (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $296,000-pass;

(2) Other expenditures $252,600-pass. Resolution 9.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $1 43, 13 1,400 for Family Services and Housing, Community Living, for the fiscal year ending the 31 st day of March, 2001. Resolution agreed to. * (1 4:40) 9.4. Child and Family Services (

a) Strategic Initiatives, Co-ordination and Support (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,002,600- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $309,300-pass. 9.4.(

b) Child, Family and Community Development (1 ) Children's Special Services (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $327,400-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $292,900-pass; (

c) Financial Assistance and External Agencies $11 , 132, 1 00-pass. 9.4.(b)

(2) Child Day Care (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $2,245,600-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $469,600-pass; (

c) Financial Assistance and Grants $60,16 1,200-pass. 9.4.(

c) Protection and Support Services (1 ) Child Protection and Support Services (a)

3724 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10, 2000 Salaries and Employee Benefits $2,474,600- pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $3,944,700- pass; (

c) Maintenance of Children and External Agencies $1 32,056, 000- pass; (

d) The Family Support Innovations Fund $2,325,0 00- pass. 9.4.(c)

(2) Family Conciliation (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $746,500-pa ss; (

b) Other Expenditures $279,000-pass. 9.4.(c)

(3) Family Violence Prevention (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $530,800-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $11 0,0 00- pass; (

c) External Agencies $7,937,200 -pass. Resolution 9.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $226,344,500 fo r Family Services and Housing, Child and Family Services, fo r the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2001. Resolution agreed to. 9.5. Housing (

a) Housing Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1,48 8,9 00- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $376, 900-pass;

(3) Financial Assistance $5, 750,000-pass. 9.5 .(

b) Corporate Services (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,700,1 00-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 ,0 50,500-pa ss. 9.5.(

c) Capital Planning Services (1 ) Salaries and Employee Benefits $940,600-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $93,500-pass;

(3) Less: Recoverable fr om other appropriations ($500,000). 9.5.(

d) The Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporation $31, 280, 700-pass. Resolution 9.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $42,18 1,200 fo r Family Services and Housing, Housing, fo r the fiscal year ending the 31 st day of March, 200 I. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 9.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $5,733,100 fo r Family Services and Housing, Amortization of Capital Assets, fo r the fiscal year ending the 31 st day of March, 200 I. Resolution agreed to. Mr. Sale: Mr.

Chairperson, I wonder if the critic would agree to do the Healthy Child questions, given that staff will be here fo r those and will not be here fo r the Minister's Salary. Then we could revert back to complete that. Would that be acceptable? Mr. Chair person: Is there leave to do the Healthy Child Initiative first bef ore we pass the Minister's Salary? [Agreed] HEALTHY CHILD INITIATIVE Mr. Cha irperson (Harry Schellenberg): The floor is open. Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr.

Chairman, I have a fe w questions to help me understand better what the Government's intention is and certainly the general thrust of the Healthy Child Initiative. When part and parcel announcements were made, I think no one could disagree with the intentions, but I would like to understand, and perhaps it is the phraseology, but on page 4 under Reconciliation it talks about transf er of fu nction fr om.

I would have been quite prepared to accept this as transf er of dollars fo r support, but when it talks about transf er of fu nction fr om, I would be interested in knowing what some of those fu nctions are and whether that, in fa ct, included staf f going with it or whether it was accepting responsibility for what is normally a depart mental fu nction, if the Minister can enlighten me. * (14:50) Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Mr. Chairperson, I think that the Member is right, that it is probably a question of phraseology more than anything else.

As the Member knows, the Children and Youth Secretariat was set up with seconded staff fr om other departments. These numbers represent seconded staff fo r the most part and the salaries associated with those secondments. In that sense

July 10, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3725 the functions associated with those staff people who have been there now for three years at this point are continuing in the new initiative. So that is really what function means. It means the staff here and associated resources are coming from the various departments, in terms of the big item, the major item of $3.6 million in Family Services and Housing.

That largely reflects the Women and Infant Nutrition Program and the staff associated, but vastly mo:e WIN, as the Member probably knows, is deltvered through contractual arrangements with regional health authorities, volunteer, non-profit groups, and a few groups that might be called quasi for-profit groups. For instance, an offshoot of We Care delivers the program in a site on Sherbrook Street through a non-profit offshoot of the for profit company. So I would think in round terms about 80 percent or 85 percent of that 3.6 million is in contracts out to probably in the order of, what, 40?

How many WIN sites are there? Thirty-five WIN sites, of varying sizes, of course, around the province. So most of that is money that flows out to purchase that service from particularly the RHAs and community groups that are hosts for WIN. Mr. Cummings: This leaves some discretionary expenditures. While dollars may not be firmed up here, I wonder if the Minister is prepared to share yet where some of the discretionary dollars are likely to end up. If he has not made that decision yet. that is also an answer. If he has, I wonder if he is prepared to share that.

Or is he waiting until he has a chance to make some announcements. Mr. Sale: We will, of course, make some announcements. I think we indicated in the ?udget a concern about strengthening our work tn the area of prenatal nutrition. That work is in a plann�ng stage a�d will be announced probably later m the fall m terms of its full framework. We also indicated in the Healthy Child announcement when we made the announcement of the five departments working together expanded support for parent-child centres, which were begun actually in the 1970s.

Everywhere they have been evaluated, well run parent-child centres are shown to be very effective ways of reaching out to high-risk parents and families in a pre-school as well as school-age setting, so an expansion of work in that area. Manitoba, along with Saskatchewan and Alberta, are national leaders in fetal alcohol syndrome prevention and amelioration. We intend to expand our efforts in regard to both prevention and more effective intervention. So those are some of the areas that we will see expanded effort. Mr. Cummings: I certainly am encouraged to hear of the Minister's interests.

I am aware of some of the discussion he has been part of around fetal alcohol. It is becoming a huge issue in some parts of the community and certainly an area that I would encourage his continued involvement and support of. I have a question about the staffing numbers, two FTEs added to the secretariat. Could he enlighten me on what their responsibilities might be? Mr. Sale: Mr. Chairperson, just before I answer that question, staff also provided me with some additi_onal information in regard to the previous questiOn.

Part of the $2 million additional funds does relate to annualizations of programs begun partway through the fiscal year but which have to be annualized next year. Roughly half of the money is annualizations fo r BabyFirst, EarlyStart, Stop F AS, adolescent pregnancy, and so_me agency grants which were part-year and will . be full-year in this fiscal year. The remamder refers to the issues that I have previously addressed. In terms of the additional staff , these positions are created and funded but they have not been filled as yet. They are associated with the increased emphasis on prenatal nutrition.

As that program gets defined, these positions are intended to allow that program to be fleshed out and implemented over this fiscal year and then it will be annualized into the next fiscal year. Mr. Cummings: Thank you for that answer. That does underscore what I had said last week which is the first year of the program was ver; often the cheap year. The annualization is what will come back to haunt governments, this one or any other.

3726 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10, 2000 I would be interested in the announcement itself, and the change of title somewhat, I would suggest, intended to demonstrate a continued and/or increased attention that the Government intends to spend in this area, but when the relevant minis tries were announced, I guess there was always a question of whether or not the policy direction is going to be intimately directed by the committee of minis ters or whether it becomes a delegated blind function.

This area is important enough and has received enough publicity over the last number of years and under this admin istration that I would be interested to know how often this committee meets. Mr. Sale: I honest ly did not plant this question, as the critic knows, but we met today. We meet monthly. The committee of deputies meets monthly, or more often as required. and. of course, the staff are working all the time. At this point the minist ers' committee is meeting monthly, and we see that being required for the first while.

We are not sure whether it will always be required. but certainly we see it as where we have to start. Mr. Cummings: I am encouraged to hear that. The Mini ster might well be aware that my colleagues had asked similar questions of some of his colleagues. I am not so sure that they were as forthcoming about how often the Committee was meeting, and I wanted to be assured that in fact, the Committee meets regularly, not that I do not trust the Department.

But when you are starting off new ini tiatives under the direction of a committee. we will be watching closely to make sure that that committee is, in fact, providin g direction and policy for policy development, because to some extent it appears that this mini ster and this government are prepared to make this a flagship init iative. If they are going to do that, then I want to make sure that there is some steak as well as sizzle, so from time to time I assure the Minister that we will be checking and inquiring of his colleagues on how regularly this committee is convened and the involvement.

I would ask another question along the same line. We discussed earlier that the support from various departments was mainly related to secondment of staff. but where does the additional expenditure come from, or the additional dollars come from, over and above the actual cost of the seconded staff? Is this from general revenues? Is it from the appropriation of Family Services. or does each of these dollars from various departments to some extent represent also the transfer of dollars? * (1 5:00) Mr. Sale: I thank the Member, Mr. Chai rperson, for what I think is a series of important points.

Augmenting the ministerial committee. by the way. is the deputies' committee, and we had today all but one deputy, and that was because that deputy was out of town. I think that the Secretariat was a very useful structure to get started in this area. but a secretariat is not. by its nature, a service-delivery level.

What our government wanted to see was a very integrated approach to our Healthy Chi ld Initiative as we framed it in response to the Postl report in 1996. and we thought that the best way to achieve that was to keep the cross departmental focus through having tive minis tries and having a cabinet committee mandated by the Premier to give direction. but also recognizin g that the way to get most impact on our overall service-deli very approach is to integrate it within the departments so that the delivery of service to children and fa milies takes on the coloration of a focus on early childhood, on preventive services and so forth.

So it maintains, in some ways, the strengths of having a staff unit that the secretariat had, but it increases that strength signi ficantly by having it report directly to cabinet with minutes on a regular basis and with mini sterial accountability for that work, not just a departmental account ability.

So I think he makes a very good point, that if you are going to make something a flagship, which we certainly intend to do, in terms of a priority there for all the good reasons that the critic and I have talked about during these Estimates, then you have got to give it some steak, some sizzle, and we intend to continue that kind of support.

July 10, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3727 In regard to the question of where the incremental revenues come from, they come from general revenues. They are new dollars. They are not reallocated from other purposes. It is new revenue. Mr. Cummings: I am prepared to pass the Healthy Child In itiative. Sorry, one last question. I understand, and perhaps you have mentioned it previously in Estimates, but to lead this initiative from a departmental or administrative point of view, is this an advertised position? Mr.

Sale: The answer is that, yes, it was advertised nationally in the Globe and Mail as well as locally in the Free Press. I do not know if it was advertised in the Sun as well, but it was certainly in the Free Press. We received 60-plus applications. Short-listing and interviewing have taken place, and we are in the process of finalizing an appointment. which we hope to announce in the relatively near future. Mr.

Chairperson, just before we close, I want to give the Member a copy for the record of his request for organizations receiving grant support from our department, as well as a list of organizations whose services are purchased on a per-diem basis. As the Member will understand, the per diem amounts vary up and down each year with the volume of service,

whereas the grants tend to be more stable. Frankly, the best way to get a sense of the per-diem amounts on an annual basis is just to look at Volume 2 of Public Accounts, because you will see there the total amount going to that organization. In a few cases they are mixed, where there may be a grant to the organization as well as a purchase of service, so the total in Volume 2 would represent the sum of the two. Mr. Cummings: Mr. Chairman, before we proceed to pass, let me say that this information is useful and appreciated. We can now pass both this line and the Minister's Salary. Mr.

Cha irperson: We will move on to the Healthy Child Ini tiative on page 95 of the main Estimates book. Resolution 34. 1. Healthy Child In itiative (

a) Salaries and Employee Benefits $916, 000-pass; (

b) Other Expenditures $432,500-pass; (

c) Financial Assistance and Grants $1 1,443,400- pass. Resolution 34. 1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $1 2,791,900 for Healthy Child In itiative, Healthy Child In itiative, for the fiscal year ending the 31 st day of March, 2001. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 34.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $74,000 for Healthy Child In itiative, Amor tization of Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending the 31 st day of March, 2001. Resolution agreed to. That concludes the Healthy Child Initi ative. FAMILY SERVICES AND HOUSING (Continued) Mr. Cha irperson (Harry Schellenberg): As agreed, we will now proceed to line 9. 1.(

a) Minister's Salary in the Estimates of Family Services and Housing. The last item to be considered for the Estimates of the Department of Family Services and Housing is item 9. 1.(

a) Minister's Salary $27 ,300- pass. Resolution 9. 1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $9,328, 100 for Family Services and Housing, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending the 31 st day of March, 200 1. Resolution agreed to. This concludes the Estimates of Family Services and Housing. We will now proceed to the Department of Conservation. Shall we recess for a few minutes? Agreed? [Agreed] We will recess for five minutes. Thank you.

3728 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10, 2000 The Committee recessed at 3:10p .m. The Committee resumed at 3:2 5 p.m. CONSERVATION Mr. Chairperson (Harry Schellenberg): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will be considering the Estimates of the Department of Conservation. Does the Honourable Minister of Con servation have an opening statement? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Con servation): Yes, I do have an opening statement to make. First of all, I want to say that I am pleased to present the 2000-200 I and first Estimates of the new Department of Con servation. I trust that members have had the opportunity to review the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review document prepared for the Department. Before proceeding with my Estimates remarks, Mr.

Chairperson, I wish to acknow ledge the dedication and commitment effort of all departmental staff in working to fulfil the mandate of the new Department of Con servation. I know it has been a pretty hectic period from October 6 to where we are now, and I thank the staff for persevering during that period. It is important to note that, although our government has been in office for only a short period of time, there are many new initiatives that I will be touching on during this presentation. First of all, I want to talk about Manitoba Conservation.

Some people inad vertently refer to us as conversation, but the real name, Mr. Chairperson, is Conservation. What is Conservation? Who are we in Conservation? Through a comprehensive integration pro cess, the former departments of Environment and Natural Resources and the Petroleum and Energy Branch are being consolidated into a cohesive unit responsible for environmental and resource stewardship. The vision of the Depart- ment of Conservation is that present and future Manitobans will enjoy and prosper in an environment that is healthy with an abundance of diverse natural resources and sustained energy.

The new organization will refocus its efforts on conserving energy and natural resources and on protecting environmental integrity and biodiversity, minimizing the effects of natural disasters while optimizing oppor tunities for economic benefits. Sustainable development will be pursued through effective planning and local decision making.

The Department has been provided with an unique opportunity to strengthen its commitment to responsible management of the province's natural heritage, including an enhanced recog nition of the role of every citizen and the unique place of Aboriginal peoples in resource planning and sustainable harvest. The Department of Conservation has been involved in what we refer to as the integration initiative, and I will talk about that a little bit here.

On October 5, 19 99, the Government announced the reorganization of the departments of Environment and Natural Resources, and the Petroleum and Energy program of the former department of Energy and Mines into the Department of Conservation. An internal integration steering committee was established shortly thereafter to oversee the integration of these entities into a fu lly integrated department. To support the integration review process, seven internal issue teams were established to focus on various integration issues.

A two-phase process was established with the first phase reviewing and identifying immediate integration opportunities and process service improvement suggestions. This phase was completed on

schedule on February 15 , 2000. Phase 2 of the integration is currently underway. The implementation of the recently announced Environmental Stewardship Division and the implementation of numerous service process improvements initiatives identified in phase I are proceeding. In addition, phase 2 will encompass many other tasks, including the finalization and implementation of the remainder of the organizational structure of the new department,

July I 0, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANI TOBA 3729 confirmation of revised regional boundaries that will be more appropriate to the new organization, the range of services being delivered, the identification of other integration improvement and service decentralization oppor tunities, the exploration of alternate service delivery options respecting certain departmental services.

It would also include the implemen tation of a customer support service infrastructure to better serve the service and information needs of Manitobans doing business with our department, the identification and resolution of legislative regulatory changes that may emerge as a consequence of integration.

Other areas of departmental focus during the fiscal year will include succession planning, improved business planning and performance measurement monitoring and instituting effec tive consultation mechanisms with stakeholders who may be impacted by departmental activities. * (1 5:30 ) I want to talk a little bit about the Environmental Stewardship Division now. As members are aware, a new Environmental Stewardship Division has been established within the Department of Conservation.

This division consists of an Environmental Approvals branch, a Policy and Planning Co-ordination branch, and an Aboriginal Relations branch. The establishment of this division is occurring for a number of reasons. One of them is to provide a stronger vehicle through which to promote environmental stewardship, to express this government's commitment to strengthening environmental stewardship through a broad area in planning, and other initiatives recommended by the COSDI report.

It is also to deal more effectively with a number of major initiatives that will require a broad area of planning expertise: the east side of Lake Winnipeg, the Livestock Stewardship Initiative, Capital Region planning, and so on, and to deal more effectively with issues that require

interpretation of treaty rights in the context of provincial legislation. This division will also assist the Department and the Government in navigating through resource management issues as they affect Aboriginal communities. It is also to facilitate the overall co-ordination of several separate policy functions to ensure better communication and flow of information within and across the Department. In

summary, this division is responsible for a number of important functions, including legislation development, intergovernmental af fairs co-ordination, broad area planning, policy development and co-ordination, consultation and support, economic analysis, standard setting, assessment and licensing of major develop ments, co-ordination and support with respect to Abori ginal issues and opportunities. This leads me to talk a little bit about the Aboriginal Resource Council.

Manitoba Conser vation, as people around here will know, particularly those of the previous government, deals with numerous natural resource manage ment issues that involve First Nations and Aboriginal communities. Given the rapidly evolving legal process regarding Aboriginal rights, there is a high probability of disputes arising in the day-to-day management of resources issues by the Department.

Further more, the Government has made a commitment to implement the recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, some of which relate to co-management of resources and to reviewing the implementation of the COSDI report, which recommended establishing a protocol for consultation with First Nations and Aboriginal communities. In order to positively address the recommendations of the Aboriginal organi zations, and in order to avoid disputes and actions against the Province, the Government is establishing an Aboriginal Resource Council.

The Council's mandate will be broad; it will service an arm's length advisory group, whose first assignment will be to development recommendations on co-management issues. It will provide recommendations for supporting First Nations in adopting their own environ mental protection and resource management by laws. It will make recommendations on priority issues, such as the east side of Lake Winnipeg. The next part that I want to discuss a bit is the legislative regulatory changes. I will start off with the amendments to The Wildlife Act. In the upcoming year, the Department will be bringing

3730 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10, 2000 forward amendments to The Wildlife Act. These amendments will provide the Government with the ability to prohibit captive hunting of native and exotic wildlife. For example, under these amendments, the Government would be able to prohibit the captive hunting of such species as elk and wild boar. To be clear, it is not the Department's intention through these amend ments to prohibit elk ranching for such purposes as velvet production. This will be allowed to continue. The Water Resources Conservation and Protection Act.

The Water Resources Conser vation and Protection Act is expected to be enacted in the 2000-200 1 fiscal year and will be a significant step in the fulfilment of our throne speech commitment to take immediate steps to protect our water resources and preserve our lakes, rivers and streams. New legislation will be introduced to ban the bulk removal of our water.

Manitoba has played a significant role in the development of the Canada-wide accord prohibiting bulk water removal from drainage basins, and this legislation is an important step in implementing this national approach in Manitoba This legislation will essentially .do two things. First. it prohibits the bulk removal of water from Manitoba's portion of the Hudson Bay drainage system. Secondly, it provides for a water resource management scheme whereby we can subdivide Manitoba into sub-basins and regulate removal from and between sub-basins.

This legislation also allows for appropriate exemptions, including the export of bottled water under a maximum size of container. water used in the processing of food or beverages and water removed with ministerial approval for short-term humanitarian reasons. This legislation is based on sound science and the precautionary principle. It is clearly an environmental and natural resource management bill rather than an anti-trade bill. We are assured by both federal trade experts and our own trade officials that this is the best approach from a trade perspective.

On a final note, this legislation is consistent with Manitoba's position on the interbasin transfer of water, particularly the position we have taken with respect to the proposed Devils Lake outlet and the Garrison Diversion in North Dakota. We will now be able to point to our own legislation to show that in Manitoba such projects will not be allowed to occur. The amendments to The Water Rights Act. In the coming months, amendments to The Water Rights Act will come into effect to reinstate provincial authority over all land drainage activities.

These amendments are a response to a recent Court of Appeal decision which stripped the Province of its historic authority in land drainage matters. These amendments. which are strongly supported by the Association of Manitoba Municipalities. will restore the Province's responsibility over land drainage. Since the 193 0s Natural Resources Transfer Act. ownership and management of Manitoba's water resources. including the regulation of drainage works. has rested with the provincial government.

These amendments will restore the Province's role in relation to drainage which is an important aspect of the overall management of Manitoba's water resources. Furthermore, in the coming months, the Department will release a discussion paper and mtttate broad-based consultations into a complete review of The Water Rights Act. The proposed new legislation will focus on providing a more harmonized approach to water manage ment involving the Province and municipalities. Amendments to The Environment Act. Numerous amendments to The Environment Act will be enacted and implemented by the Department.

This is Manitoba's central environ mental statute, and as such, the Government feels it is important that this act be regularly updated and improved. * (1 5:40) Among the expected amendments will be the following: Strengthening the Clean Environ ment Commission and providing it with the ability to be more creative in the methods by which it investigates issues and provides advice to the Minister; improving the licensing process by allowing for licences to be reviewed at a specific date rather than having licences continue

July I 0, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 373 1 indefinitely with no updating; public notice of all proposed alterations to developments; allowing the Department to have a licence reviewed where significant adverse effects are feared if the existing licence is not updated. An other proposed amendment will! enhance the power of directors to issue emergency orders similar to the powers they presently have under The Dangerous Goods Handling and Trans portation Act.

An example of where such an order might be issued is against an intensive livestock operation where it is feared an eastern storage lagoon is in imminent danger, or a northern storage lagoon is in imminen1 danger of breaching and requires immediate pumping down and repair to protect local service and groundwater supplies. I will talk a little bit about the lodge and outfitters act. At present, the Department is responsible for portions of The Tourism and Recreation Act pertaining to the licensing and operation of outfitters, hunting and fishing lodges and their outcamps.

In the coming year the Department will be embarking on additional consultations with a view to updating and bringing many of these provisions under a separate act to be administered entirely by the Department. In the year 2000-200 1. the Department is planning to make amendments to The Oil and Gas Act, at least two of the regulations under The Oil and Gas Act. The drilling and pro duction regulation requires amendment primarily to expand on the requirements regarding gas flaring at oil and gas facilities as well as several other subsidiary issues.

A number of amendments will also be considered for the Crown royalty and incentives regulations to improve the effectiveness of the Manitoba drilling incentive program. Through the ozone-depleting substances regulation, the Department effectively controls the usage and release of virtually all ozone depleting substances remaining in circulation in Manitoba. The Manitoba Ozone Protection Industry As sociation assists in program delivery in this important area.

Due to ever-changing techno logical advances involved in the world-wide phase-out of ozone depleting substances, frequent amendments to this regulation are necessary. In the upcoming year the Department will be amending this regulation to control the usage of hydrofluorocarbons. Hydrofluoro carbons have become increasingly prevalent as replacement substances for CFCs, the latter of which are being phased out due to their damaging effects on the ozone layer. While HFCs are not ozone depleting substances, they are global warming substances and thus are harmful for different reasons.

Our regulatory amendments will be made in conjunction with consultations conducted by MOPIA and will likely entail requirements for technicians to recover and otherwise handle HFCs in the same manner as CFCs are handled. Cost of implementation. In the upcoming year, the Department will be considering and implementing many of the recommendations contained in the COSDI report.

Released in 19 99, the Consultation on Sustainable Develop ment Implementation report contained numerous recommendations in such areas as large area planning; municipal planning; development, assessment and review; public participation; and partnerships with Aboriginal people. These recommendations were developed through a comprehensive and extensive stakeholder consultation process. Our depart ment will continue to take a lead role in this initiative and will continue to work with both private and public stakeholders as well as the general public in this implementation stage.

The harmonization of environmental assess ment. The Canada and Manitoba agreement on environment assessment co-operation was signed in May 2000. Under the agreement, proposed projects will undergo a single co operative assessment meeting the legal requirements of both governments while maintammg their respective powers and responsibilities. The agreement upholds the principle of an open process and will ensure a more efficient and effective process is in place for those projects requiring environmental assessment by both governments.

The signing of this agreement marks another important step in the implementation of the Canadian Council of Ministers of Environment harmonization accord.

3732 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July I 0, 2000 The decommissioning of AECL's Whiteshell laboratories in Pinawa. As we all know, the AECL has announced plans to decommission its facility in Pinawa known as the Whiteshell laboratories. While the provincial government alone may not be able to cause AECL to reverse its position, the government is working hard to ensure that AECL and the federal government will not just walk away from this facility without addressing the serious economic and environ mental issues that will remain.

While recognizing that the economic and environ mental issues associated with this decom missioning cannot be completely delinked, the Department will in the upcoming year be focussing on the difficult environmental issues associated with the radioactive waste at the site. AECL's decommissioning proposal is presently undergoing a federal assessment under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. Our department is fully involved in this process and is presently leading a technical advisory committee which is co-ordinating provincial input into this process.

Our department is also working closely with other provincial departments: Industry. Trade and Mines; Intergovernmental Affairs; as well as other local and municipal officials and other local leaders to ensure that all views are taken into account in the decommissioning process. While AECL's decommissioning proposal has several negative ramifications, the Depart ment is encouraged by some positive conser vation and environmental opportunities which may be developing. First, much of the AECL property is undeveloped and forested former Crown land which may be returned to the province at a very small cost.

This parcel of land is one of the largest remaining undeveloped parcels of this particular landscape type remaining in the province. For this reason, the Department will in the coming months be investigating the possibility of reacquiring this portion of the site and setting it aside under Manitoba's protected areas initiative. Second, a feasibility study is planned to determine whether the Whiteshell laboratory site could be developed into a centre for alternative energy research. This idea is still in the conceptual stage.

However, there appears to be significant potential to develop a world-class energy research facility at this site in partnership with other levels of government, utility com panies, universities. and so on. The need for such research facilities will only expand as the issue of climate change becomes increasingly urgent, both in Canada and worldwide. There are numerous reasons why Manitoba and Pinawa in particular would be an ideal location for the establishment of such a research facility.

Going into the Fire Program, to supplement the Department's aircraft resources for forest fire suppression. the Department has implemented a new single-engine air tanker program. These privately owned crop-spraying aircraft have been converted to air tankers. and are equipped \vith a drop-door assembly. similar to the water bombers. The aircraft is capable of carrying up to 30 00 I itres of fire retardant and can be serviced and filled at almost any airstrip. The Department will utilize this aircraft in areas where water for the water bombers is limited or during the early spring when most lakes are still frozen.

Assessment of oil field emissions. There is a growing concern across western Canada regarding the short- and long-term effects of emissions related to the production and processing of oil and gas. Manitoba has a small but active oil patch in the southwestern part of the province. but most of the oil produced in Manitoba contains hydrogen sulphide, a gas that can have serious health and safety consequences at higher concentrations. * (15 :5 0) Over the past two years, the Department has been engaged in intensive air quality monitoring in the Tilston area in response to complaints from local residents.

This monitoring indicates that air quality in the Tilston area meets all standards. The concerns regarding air quality in this region led to a decision to initiate air quality monitoring at other more intensively developed locations within the oil patch. Monitoring air quality will focus on the presence of low concentrations of sulphide, sulphur dioxide and hydrogen sulphide. More comprehensive air

July 10, 2000 LEG ISLA TlVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3733 quality monitoring in the oil patch willl improve the Department's data respecting air quality in this area, and will provide a basis on which to develop amendments to regulations governing the design and operation of oil and gas facilities in Manitoba. Manitoba has developed a royalty and production tax regime that is targeted at attracting investment in Manitoba's oil and gas resources, while maximizing the benefits to the province. Manitoba competes with other jurisdictions, and internationally for this inves tment.

Even with the modest level of Manitoba's petroleum resources, the Province must continually assess its fiscal regime to ensure that it is reasonable and competitive. The recent in crease in crude oil prices led to an increased royalty and production tax revenue in Manitoba, but it has not, to date, resulted in a si gnificant increase in exploration and develop ment. Through consultation with industry stakeholders, the Department has prepared a package of enhancements to the oil and gas fiscal regime designed to stimula te inwstment in the province.

In most cases, these are seen to be revenue neutral, given that increased invest ment will expand the revenue base. It is our intention to introduce a regulatory amendment in this regard in the near future. Ethanol industry expansion. Sincf: the early 1980s, a small fuel ethanol industry has existed in Manitoba. The use of ethanol by Manitobans as an alternative renewable fuel blended with gasoline to form gasohol has grown slowly over the years.

However, technological improve ments, rising prices of gasoline, and the environmental and economic benefits asso ciated with the production of ethanol have created increased demand for this fuel to the point where expansion of the fuel ethanol industry within Canada is on the horizon. During this fiscal year Manitoba Conservation will work with the industry, and with the departments of Finance, Industry, Trade and Mines, and Agriculture to facil itate the growth of this renewable energy industry for the benefit of all Manitobans. Emergency response.

The Department con tinues to respond to numerous environmental emergencies during the 1999-2000 fiscal year. The Department received 40 1 calls to the emergency reporting system involving 229 environmental accidents. The Department will continue to dedicate required resources to this area to ensure that incidents of environmental concerns continue to receive priority attention. East side of Lake Winnipeg development. Manitoba Conservation will be undertaking a new major planning initiative for the east side of Lake Winnipeg.

The new initiative will involve local communities and other interest groups that will make recommendations on wide area plan ning. The stakeholders involved in the new planning ini tiative will include First Nations, industry, the provincial government and many others. For the process to work effective ly, the input of First Nations, Pine Falls Paper Company and other agencies and groups which have a keen interest in the future development on the east side of Lake Winnipeg is needed. A consultation on the Sustainable Development Implementation report indicated a need for wide area planning.

With all of the activity on the east side, it was recommended that planning start in this region. The process will see the participants make recommendations to the Government regarding the plan. Information and materials and the support of government staff will be available to the stakeholders to help in the planning process. The Land Information Division of the Department of Conservation is undertaking a number of important activities in the current year. These include the ongoing development and operation of the Canada Map Sales ini tiative, which is the first e-mail commerce site of the Manitoba Government.

It has the potential to make Manitoba the premier map distributor in Canada. The division will also be publishing a comprehensive volume of Manitoba place names as a millennium project. This will provide a narrative of approximately 10 000 names, inclu ding the geographic descriptions of their location and, where possible, the historical background on the origin of the names. Particular importance will be placed on mapping in the North to support the land claims process for treaty land entitlement in the Northern Flood Agreement, mining exploration, forestry operations and

3734 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10 , 2000 information gathering for biodiversity and environmental impact assessment before any major development occurs. This is particularly true with regard to potential development on the east side of Lake Winnipeg and developments being considered in connection with Nunavut. Mapping products and programs that are important for these initiatives are the digital ortho-photo program satellite data, including Landsat 7, and a digital GPS cor rection program. This base information is being distributed throughout government by its Manitoba land initiative program.

Finally, the division is also active in the Rails to Trails program. It is providing support for this initiative as part of the development of recreational trails in the province and is particularly supportive of the Trans Canada Trail program. I want to now go into the Livestock Stewardship Initiative. On March 3. 2000, this government announced its Livestock Steward ship Initiative, outlining a commitment aimed at protecting the environment and ensuring the fu ture of the province's livestock industry.

The announcement indicated a commitment to increased environmental inspections of all livestock operations over 400 animal units; an increase in the number of field audits fo r manure management plans starting in 2000; increased inspections on all operations in designated sensitive areas of agri-Manitoba; increased monitoring of surface and groundwater; updating groundwater sensitivity maps; an inspection program for all constructed manure storage facilities to ensure that surface and groundwater are not being impacted.

There was also a commitment made to conduct an independent review to examine the present state of soils and the sustainability of long-term manure application to land in agri Manitoba. The government has recently initiated a comprehensive public consultation process regarding Manitoba's livestock industry. The Department continues to carry out activities to achieve the province's commitment of reducing solid waste going to waste disposal grounds. Significant progress continues to be made in building sustainable alternatives to waste disposal.

These include the stewardship program fo r used oil. filters and containers which has completed its second year of operation with good results; continued expansion of municipal recycling programs; renewed business plans fo r the Manitoba Product Stewardship Corporation; a Tire Stewardship Board. A stakeholder process for developing a sustainable program for the management of household hazardous waste in Manitoba resulted in recommendations to the Minister.

A national survey undertaken to monitor progress in the waste minimization eff ort indicates that in 19 98 Manitobans disposed of 850 kilograms of waste per capita. This represents a decrease of 20 percent fr om 19 88 levels. The Used Oil.

Filters and Containers Stewardship Regulation makes it illegal fo r a company to sell lubricating oil products unless it is registered and belongs to the province-wide stewardship program operated by the Manitoba Association fo r Resource Recovery Corporation, MARRC. * (1 6: 00) In 19 99, Manitobans purchased 26.5 million litres of oil and 1. 5 million oil filters and generated I million kilograms of oil container waste. Of these amounts, MARRC recovered 11 .5 million litres of used oil, 1. 25 million oil filters and 90 000 kilograms of oil container waste.

MARRC's activities have been significant, substantially increasing the recovery of lubricants in Manitoba. MARRC currently has 10 7 companies with membership in the Association. Compliance audits undertaken on MARRC's behalf indicate the association has achieved a level playing field. As part of their membership agreement, lubricant stewards must pay MARRC environmental handling charges based on product sales in Manitoba. There were 28 ecocentres established in partnership with municipal governments and four privately operated depots in Manitoba as at the end of 19 99.

The Manitoba Product Stewardship Cor poration, established in 19 95, is a non-profit

July 10 , 2000 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3735 statutory corporation funded by a distributor paid, 2-cent-per-beverage-container levy estab lished by the multimaterial stewardship regulation. The Corporation has ensured that over 95 percent of Manitoba's population. 16 0 municipalities, have access to comprehensive material recyclin g services. In '98-99, the Corporation coll ected $6.5 million through the beverage-container levy, paid out $4.6 milli on in municipal recyclin g support payments and recovered 35 000 metric tonnes or 40 percent of a possible 87 000 metric tonnes of eligible material.

The Tire Stewardship Bo ard's Scrap: Tire Recyclin g Program was establis hed by the tire stewardship regulation in April of '95 to establi sh and maintain a scrap tire recycling program in Manitoba. The Tire Stewardship Board is funded by a $3 levy on all new tires sold for use on li censed vehicles in Manitoba. As of December 31, 19 99, the Board has paid processors over $9 mill ion and municipalities over $600,000 to collect and recycle over 5 million passenger tires equivalent. There are virtually no stockpiles of tires left in Manitoba.

The program is now recy cl ing one tir,e for every tire sold in the province, and it is consid ered one of the most successf ul programs of its kind in North America. The development of regional waste management systems continues to be pursued. Ten regional management systems for solid waste involving three or more partners were operating in 19 99-2000. Over 50 waste transfer stations have been established replacing local waste disposal grounds, while an additional eight regional waste management partnerships are in the planning stages.

To further encourage the establi shment of regional integrated waste management systems, the Department co ordinated the activities of the Regional Waste Management Task Force. The Task Force submitted its report, a Regional Solid Waste Management Action Plan and recommendations to the Minis ter in January 2000. The report proposes a vision for a province-wide solid waste management system to minimiz e risk to human health and the environment, and support for continued growth of the Manitoba economy.

The diversion of organic waste through composting improved construction and demo lition waste management practices and the development of a waste management facili ty. Operating guidelines have been identified as areas in need of further development. Since 19 95, the Crop Protection Institute, representing majo r pesticide suppliers in Canada, has funded a program to drain, shred, crush and dispose of used pesticide container material. Records show that return rates on pesticide containers sold in Manitoba have increased from 35 percent in 19 95-96 to 90 percent in 19 99-2000.

A total of 5.2 million empty pesticide containers have been removed from Manitoba's environment. Over a million and a half pounds of metal have been recycled into rebar. Shredded plastic has been sent to energy recovery facili ties in the United States and to Aylmer, Ontario, for recycling into fence posts and curb stops. The Department's Pollution Prevention program promotes pollution prevention as the environmental management strategy of choice in partnership with the All iance of Manufacturers & Exporters Canada and Envi ronment Canada.

In 19 99-2000, the program supported the Manitoba Green printing project comprised of 19 member companies who participated in a variety of pollution-prevention activities such as the Manitoba Green Procurement Networks print shop audits. A Manitoba pollution prevention guide for printers was developed. The Manitoba Green Metal-Finishing Project, which promotes the goals of the national toxic reduction init iative, contacted 38 firms and conducted 10 planned visits.

The wood finis hers in Manitoba ini tiated a sector-wide approach to pollution prevention opportunities and agreed to hire a project co ordinator to provide technical support to member companies. The autobody/auto-repair sector also initia ted a sector-wide approach to pollution prevention opportunities and has a project co ordi nator to provide technical support to member companies. The Manitoba Golf superintendents association distributed an environmental self assessment checklis t in 19 99 to ensure sound

3736 LEG ISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANIT OBA July I 0, 2000 environmental practices are followed at Manitoba golf courses. The program is also engaged in vol untary pollution prevention partnerships with the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association, the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce and the prairie Grain Elevator Association. Program staf f continue to provide on-site pollution prevention technical assistance to businesses and industry associations. The Ozone Depleting Substances Act was established in 19 90 to restrict the use of ozone depleting substances and protect the strato spheric ozone layer.

In partnership with the Manitoba Ozone Protection Industry Asso ciation, MOPIA, establis hed in 19 94, the Province's goal is to reduce and eventually eliminate the release of ozone-depleting substances into the atmosphere. In 19 99-2000, Manitoba amended The Ozone Depleting Substances Act to prevent. reduce and elimi nate the release of ozone depleting substances into the atmosphere and any harm or injury that could be caused by the substances or products that are made to be used, or are used. in place of ozone depleting substances.

Through partnerships with other govern ments, organizations, institutions and provincial agencies, the pollution prevention program is partici pating in several effective projects that inclu de energy, water and equipment moni toring, audits, retrofits, re-use, education and public awareness. Household hazardous waste is any material in a home that may endanger human health or the environment if di sposal is not managed properly. This incl udes old paint, ammunition, batteries, pesticides, poisons, used oil and products contai ning mercury.

The Department wil l continue to fund the household hazardous waste col lection in Manitoba at the same level as it did last year. This program recovered 31 3 tonnes of household hazardous waste last year at a total cost of $420,000. * (16:10 ) The Department is continuing to work with a group of stakeholders to develop recom mendations on how these materials should be managed in the future. The Department expects to release a discussion document and a draft regulation based on the committee's recom mendations for a public review and comment in the falL with implementation planned for 20 01 .

The purpose of the Sustainable Development Innovations Fund is to provide funding for the development. implementation and promotion of environmental innovation and sustainable development projects delivered by government. ind ustry and community groups. A total of $3 .4 milli on generated by the environmental protection taxes on di sposable diapers and non-deposit alcohol beverage containers as we ll as retail sales tax revenues generated on waste reduction and prevention levies has been allocated to the Sustainable Development Innovations Fund for the fiscal year 2000-200 I.

While details on the use of this fund will be announced. some of these funds will be used to promote programs such as the Environment Youth Corps. a new initia tive to improve our ability to manage solid waste and to support developments to address climate change. The majo rity of the monies in the fund will be used to provide strategic grants for projects put forward by government. ind ustry and com munity groups. Aboriginal organizations and Fir st Nations communities. These projects will demonstrate benefit to the environment and support the further development of sustainable communities.

Our government is very committed about the risk we face from cl imate change. Our best scienti sts are telli ng us that we face fundamental changes to our landscape in the coming decades and everything possible needs to be done today to study these potential impacts and develop adaptation strategies to adjust accordingly. Our department is leading this effort for Manitoba. We are engaged with our federal, provincial and territorial partners from across Canada in a national process to work with stakeholders and the public in order to develop a better scientific understanding of cli mate change and to better

July 10 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3737 protect its impacts upon our environm1�nt, health and economy, to raise awareness and to develop prudent but ef fective strategies to reduce emissions of harmful pollutants into our air which intensif ies these problems. The Government of Canada signed the Kyoto Protocol in 19 97, and in doing so, signalled its intention to ra tify and implement the related requirements to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases.

Manitoba will ensure that when Canada decides to ratify and implement this protocol, we will do our part and play a constructive role in current national discussions relating to this matter. In addition to the very grave consequences we in our future generations face with impacts that may arise from climate change, I recognize the need for us to take careful and well-informed actions right now to ensure we do not dis advantage Manitoba industries in the agriculture, energy, and transportation sectors which could be impacted by greenhouse gas mitigative policies.

Despite the potential economic risks of curbing our emissions of greenhouse gases, I believe the cost of doing nothing will be far worse both in the environmental and in health and economic ways. Our largest trading partner, the Uni ted States, is busying itself to reduce i.ts reliance upon carbon-intensive forms of energy. While many predict they will not ratify the Kyoto accord, we are informed by business people that there is a high probability of non-tariff trade barriers being put in place on our southern border related to cli mate change mitigation. Canada must be doing more to prepare for these scenarios.

Manitoba will continue to work to ensure our industries are not disadvantaged and further that we are poised to takl! advantage of the many opportunities which will arise to increase our exports of knowledge, technology, and manufactured goods to assist others to reduce their greenhouse gas emission:;. More specifically, our department is pre paring a cli mate change action plan for Manitoba which will set out aggressive greenhouse gas emission reduction targets for our own government operations to ensure we are leading by example.

We will also set out an action plan to achieve these reductions across government operations. We will also under take public and stakeholder consultations to raise awareness and help inform and direct our government actions on broader mitigation activities and ensure funding is in place to stimulate both public and private sector inno vation and excellence in this area.

This course of action will ensure that Manitoba shows leadership on important matters of developing adaptation strategies for our prairie, boreal forests, and northern coastal regions and further that our mitigation actions are effective while taking maximum advantage of our natural endowment of hydroelectric electricity which will be in increasing demand as Canada and the U.S. lessen their reliance upon thermally generated electricity.

On the international water issues, as you probably know, approximately 70 percent of Manitoba's surface water flows to us from other jurisdictions including Saskatchewan, Alberta, North Dakota Minnesota and Ontario. Our department continues to work closely with our upstream neighbours to ensure that sufficie nt volumes of good quality water are provided to us. We have developed a close working relationship with Environment Canada on interprovincia l water issues and with both Environment Canada and Foreign Affairs on international trade and on international water issues.

Ongoing trans-boundary activities to protect water in Manitoba include partici pating actively with Saskatchewan, Alberta, and Canada through the Prairie Provinces Water Board to protect water flows and water quality in the eastward flowing Prairie streams and partici pating with Saskatchewan, North Dakota, the United States federal government and Canada to implement the Souris River bilateral water quality agreement. The water quality objectives and the nutrient management strategy. In mid-April of th is year our department released two documents for widespread public review. These documents

3738 LE GIS LATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10 , 2000 identified measures that will lead to a greater protection of water quality in Manitoba. The first document entitled "Manitoba Water Quality Standards, Objectives and Guidelines" proposes a large number of changes to our existing water quality ob jectives. These water qualit y standards, objectives and guidelines as proposed are the most comprehensive in Canada. They incor porate our extensive work with other Canadian jurisdictions through the Canadian Council of Minis ters of Environment.

They build on our own con siderable experience in applying water quality objectives in Manitoba since the mid-1 970s . They provide some unique approaches to water quality protection in Manitoba. Mr. Chairperson, that concludes my opening remarks with respect to the Department's 2000- 200 1 Estimates. I look forward to the much detailed discussions on the Estimates as we go forth. Mr. Chai rperson: We thank the Minis ter of Conservation for those comments. Do the Official Opposition critics, the Honourable Member for Lakeside (Mr.Enns) and the Honourable Member for Arthur-Virden (Mr.

Maguire), have any opening comments? * (1 6: 20) Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Yes, Mr. Chairman. They will be brief. I want to thank the Honourable Minis ter for the very extensive comments about the very extensive and large department that he now has responsibil ity for. I note ju st for the record that you are not the first Minis ter of Cons ervation in the service of government. For many years, up until 19 69, it was the Department of Agricu lture and Conservation that recognized the importance of conservation then and today.

Agriculture, of course, many people will acknowledge is very often the activity that impacts very directly on the natural landscape, natural habitat for wildl ife, water supplies, our use and dedication of land and so forth. It was my privilege to be the last Minis ter of Agricu lture and Con servation in the year 68-69, when last that title was used by government department. Mr.

Chairman, I will repeat what we repeated and what we said at the time of the announcement of the combined department of our continued reservations about the potential conflicts that, in my judgment, has been brought about by the merging of these two departments whether. in fact, they occur or not. But its perception in the general public will. I think, in time cause this Minis ter and this government consider able problems. That is an observation, It is a massive challenge that this Minis ter and this government has in trying to prevent that, and I wish them well.

Let me also acknowledge. certainly as the Minis ter did. that it is my belief that he has an excellent staff throughout the Department. They work tirelessly on behalf of the many respon sibi lities that they have, particula rly the field staf f often working in isolated circumstances facing situations as they try to carry out the poli cies of the Department and of the Government. Mr. Chairman, I repeat the concern that we have in the Official Opposition about the potential confl ict of interest.

I know for instance. and I would ju st like this as a little example that some members of the Committee, the Member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway). the Member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli ) . certainly will recall it was not that many years ago that the minis ter of Natural Resources. back in '9 1. had an enthu siastic interest in a particular project and partnered with an organization known as Ducks Unlim ited at Oak Hammock Marsh. We were as a department involved. As I say, I was an enthusiastic supporter of the project. Can you imagine the furor that the Member for Radisson (Ms.

Cerilli) would have raised if I were also the watchman on the dog that had to grant the environmental licensing? At least there was a separa tion of those two functions. As it was, she did a pretty good jo b along with many others at that time. Since then, of course, that project has grown to national acclaim. The birds, the chi ldren, the people of Manitoba, and, indeed, people of all of Canada are enjoying that project. It is that conflic t that would have been expressed in a very clear and demonstrable way to me.

July 10 , 2000 LEGI SLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3739 You, Mr. Minister, in your department, are going to be facing developmental decis ions in forestry, in mining. You are facing them every day in agriculture with the expanded livestock facili ties. On the one hand, you are going to have to provide the opportunity to allow n:sponsib\e, sustainable development to proceed and, at the same time, also be responsible for the licensing and the concern of the environmental issues involved. I wish you well, Mr. Minist er, in that task. I will be watching.

What I am fearful of, of course, is that the policing role of your department will predomi nate, and development will simply shut down in the province of Manitoba. Yes, I agn:e that if it becomes simply that dif ficult, it be-comes that dif ficult for the people at Pine Falls to get the additional substantial cutting rates that they need and that the forestry people within the department of Natural Resources say are available in a sustainable way, but if the pressure from the environmental side is such, or if it perceived to be such, it simply will not proceed. Of course, that is true in many other instances.

We have some very specific issues that involve the mining indus try where the opportunity of exploiting that particular resource coupled against other policies of this govern ment, and not ju st this governm«::nt but of previous governments, involving ·�ndangered spaces, involving parkland, involving other natural habitat. The question is what is the role of the Department. Is it not partly develop mental?

If somebody wants to come and invest three, four, five hundred million dollars, and create two, three hundred, five hundred jobs, particularly in the area that the Minis ter is we\1 famil iar with, the North, is that not a worthwhile activity of the department? Or does the propo nent think. well, in Manitoba, gosh, you know, the Minister that we are looking for to a\ly us with, to support this project, he is also the Minis ter that is going to send environmental watchdogs on us, we are going to have to get past them on that. Those are some very immediate concerns that I express.

I can remember, from my own experience, you have taken back the mines and energy

part in this merger. Back in '68-69 the Department of Mines and Natural Resources, as it at that time was known, also housed the mines safety inspectors in the Department. The then opposition, the New Democrats, howled that that was terrible conflict of interest and that the safety inspectors ought not to be in the division of Mines in the department of Natural Resources. They should be housed in the Department of Labour, under the Workplace Safety and Health, and quite frankly, I concur red with that, and within a few years that, in fact, took place.

Having the very people, the inspectors who check on the mining operations on a weekly or a monthly basis or on a daily basis being housed within the Department that on the other hand works hopefully aggressively and progressively with the mining community to develop mines was seen as a possible conflict of interest in terms of their being able to carry out without preju dice their very responsible jobs of inspecting mine safety. Mr. Chairman, I cite these few cases. We are going to go through the Estimates, time permitting. I want to concl ude with one further comment, because I say this very sincerely.

Departments like Natural Resources, Agri culture, Hig hways, these are the departments that contributed in a very substantial way, in a dollar and personnel and resources way, that made it possible for the former governmen t to bring about a state of fiscal security to the problem, that enabled us to bring in balanced budgets, which this government now embraces. But there was a price to pay for it. Departments like Natural Resources. the Department that we are dealing with. and the Honourable Member for Radisson (Ms.

Cerilli ) knows whereof I speak, there are many people in Water Resources, many people in Parks, the resources that were curtailed, they made a very signif icant contribu tion. I do not see in these Estimates anywhere near the kind of resources that this minis ter and this department need to carry out the respon sibi lities that you currently have, leave alone the ones that you are reaching out to have. You are going to have 3000 permits from farmers on your desk every week, Mr. Minis ter, because of the legis lation that you are proposing. You know what 25 000 lit res of water is?

You want to transfer that from one corner of your farm to another comer of your farm. We are passing

3740 LEG IS LATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10 , 2000 legislation that says we now have to have somebody in the department of Water Resources send a person out there, get a permit from this department to do that. * (16 :30) That is a massive undertaking, and I do not see, Mr. Minister, the kind of support you have in doing that. What it means: intolerable delays . You are reaching out more and more intrus ively, and that is your right. You people have elected this government, people in the mini stry. the First Minis ter has made you minis ter respons ible.

I am not challenging that, but I will tell you the inevitable result will be that there will be more and more frustration, more and more delays, and the very same municipalities that are currently supporting that bill in three or four years will be looking for its repeal, simply because of the inabil

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-1-58
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 1st hansardpdf 58.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	1013cb8238b73c62a344a8e323d61191231164de

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