Manitoba Hansard — 1 June 2011 (Sitting 55, 39th Legislature, 5th Session)

39-5-55

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXIII No. 55 – 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, June 1, 2011 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Wellington N.D.P.

MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon.

Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WIEBE, Matt Concordia N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Inkster Vacant Lac du Bonnet

2475 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, June 1, 2011 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee t o f r a m e s u c h l a w s a s may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 47–The Accessibility Advisory Council Act and Amendments to The Government Purchases Act Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister responsible for Persons with Disabilities): I move, seconded by the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald), that Bill 47, The Accessibility Advisory Council Act and Amendments to The Government Purchases Act;

Loi sur le Conseil consultatif de l'accessibilité et modifiant la

Loi sur les achats du gouvernement, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Howard: This bill represents the next step on our journey towards becoming a fully accessible province. It is by no means the destination or the end of that journey. Mr. Speaker, I want to–as we introduce this bill today, I want to thank all the people who've worked very hard to get us to this point, some of which are in the gallery today, folks who are from Barrier-Free Manitoba who I know will continue to push us to go farther and to go faster, and we welcome that intervention into the policy-making process.

I also want to thank all of the representatives from various industry sector s–hotel, restaurant and retail–people representing municipalities who've also come on board for the push to make Manitoba more accessible. The first–this bill creates the advisory council on accessibility. It will be made up of representatives of organizations for persons with disabilities, as well as representatives from business and other organizations that will strive toward achieving greater accessibility for persons with disabilities and seniors and all Manitobans who face those barriers in their daily lives. Mr.

Speaker, this council will provide advice and recommendations on legislation and other requirements that the government can undertake in order to prevent and remove barriers. It will provide for timelines for the appointment of the advisory council members within three months of the bill coming into eff ect and for the preparation of the council's first recommendations due within 12 months of the bill coming into effect. Mr.

Speaker, the bill will also amend The Government Purchases Act so that whenever possible, government purchases will be made in accordance with barrier-free gu idelines that will be developed by regulation. The first task of this council, Mr. Speaker, will be to continue the development of strong accessibility legislation and standards, which will become legislation in this province. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] PETITIONS Bipole III–Cost to Manitoba Families Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba Hydro has been directed by the provincial government to construct its next high voltage direct transmission line, Bipole III, down the west side of Manitoba. This will cost each family of four in Manitoba $11,748 more than an east-side route, which is also shorter and more reliable. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to build the Bipole III transmission line on the shorter and more reliable east side of Lake Winnipeg in order to save each Manitoba family of four $11,748.

2476 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 And this petition is signed by C. Goerzen, A. Goerzen, D. Goerzen and many, many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Auto Theft–Court Order Breaches Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly: The background to this petition is as follows: On December 11th, 2009, in Winnipeg, Zdzislaw Andrzejczak was killed when the car that he was driving collided with a stolen vehicle.

The death of Mr. Andrzejczak, a husband and a father, along with too many other deaths and injuries involving stolen vehicles, was a preventable tragedy. Many of those accused in fatalities involving stolen vehicles were previously known to police and identified as chronic and high-risk car thieves who had court orders against them. Chronic car thieves pose a risk to the safety of all Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To request the Minister of Justice to consider ensuring that all court orders for car thieves are vigorously monitored and enforced.

And to request the Minister of Justice to consider ensuring that all breaches of court orders on car thieves are reported to police and vigorously prosecuted. Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by R.V. Svort, T. Zyha, C. Young and thousands of other concerned Manitobans. * (13:40) MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Flooding and Ice Jams Update Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Much of Manitoba was hit by a devastating storm yesterday.

Extremely heavy rain and violent winds prompted evacuations of hundreds of people and caused widespread overland flooding, road washouts, school closures and rising river levels. Southwestern Manitoba is one of the regions hit the hardest by the rain,

part icularly the areas around Souris and Deloraine wh ere preliminary reports indicate four to six inches fell in a short period of time. Many roads in the area were washed out, and schools closed in Melita and Pierson for the day. The Parklands were also hard hit, prompting evacuations from the Dauphin and Ochre River areas as well as the communities of Mallard and Waterhen. Dauphin Lake was hit with major winds and water also rose quickly on the Turtle River at Ste. Rose. Due to this massive storm, the Souris and Assiniboine rivers, as well as several tributaries, are rising significantly.

The Souris experienced another crest higher than those seen earlier this spring, and more water is coming in that–into that system. Overland flooding is occurring in Brandon and the Assiniboine is expected to rise several feet as a result of this storm. The full impacts of what these rains will mean for water levels are being assessed as quickly as possible. The storm also battered Lake Manitoba with gale-force winds flooding many properties and washing over many access roads. Mandatory evacuation notices were issued in St. Laurent, Delta Beach, Twin Beaches and other areas from Lake Francis north to Oak Point.

The Office of the Fire Commissioner and local fire departments assisted in evacuating people late into last night with air and boat support after access roads were flooded. The full extent of the damages from this devastating storm will be assessed as access is restored. On Lake Manitoba, water levels continue to rise and the crest levels and date will be reassessed in light of this storm, and a large rise is expected on the Assiniboine River. Residents on the lake also know all too well that this will not be the last major storm they see before freeze-up.

In many cases, the flood protection residents and cottagers worked hard on to put in place over the last weeks will have been washed away by the force of the huge waves. Mr. Speaker, we have put in place a unique program for residents, cottage owners and producers around Lake Manitoba to assist in this extremely challenging time. We will continue to work with rural municipalities to provide resources to protect properties where possible, and we have committed funds to assist property owners with the cost of moving or raising their homes and cottages. Over the longer term, we have committed to an assessment of

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2477 options to improve the capacity of the Assiniboine River, Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin flood management systems, including options to increase outflows from Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin. The full impacts of yesterday's storm are not fully known, but we do know that this event was devastating for many and adds to the profound stress and hardship that they've already experienced as a result of this year's record flood. As always, we will work with municipalities and with Manitobans to get through this serious and prolonged natural disaster. Mr.

Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I thank the minister for the latest update on the flood situation in Manitoba. Yesterday was an extremely challenging day as heavy rains and high winds wreaked havoc in many different regions throughout Manitoba. Among the hardest hit areas were along the shores of Lake Manitoba where strong winds and high waves crashing, overtopping dikes, damaging homes and cottages, toppling trees and washing out roads. The situation was so serious that people had to be rescued by front-end loaders and boats in areas such as St.

Laurent or–pardon me, Laurentia Beach, Sandpiper Beach and Twin Lakes Beach. We thank the people who went in to help remove those stranded persons. As always, an abundance of caution must be exercised in these very serious situations, and we are glad no one was hurt. Recovery from this storm will take time, and we urge officials to move swiftly to provide assistance. Mandatory evacuations are in effect in places like Delta Beach and in the rural municipalities of St. Laurent and Woodlands. There were also evacuations in communities such as Sioux Valley First Nation, the RM of Ochre River and Alonsa.

Elsewhere in the province, the storm battered properties at places like Dauphin Lake, and more work is under way in terms of flood mitigation efforts there as well. In Winnipegosis, the village has been dealing with breached dikes, Mr. Speaker. The heavy rains are sending river levels surging.

In speaking with my colleagues and Manitobans from different parts of the province today, we have heard of the heavy toll the rains are taking on municipal and provincial roads and other key infrastructure, and the minister alluded to the area of Pierson and Melita that I'm most familiar with, where school was cancelled because it wasn't safe to run school buses on the soft roads due to the heavy rains. These heavy rains continue to cause problems for agricultural producers in many regions who are struggling to get their spring crops in the ground, and many have indicated that seeding will be impossible.

We look forward to continued updates on the flooding situation. Thank you. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to recognize the heroic efforts that took place in various places around Manitoba, but particularly at Lake Manitoba last night and yesterday dealing, for example, with a situation on Laurentia Beach which someone who was there described as beyond comprehension, beyond words, unbelievable chaos and destruction.

And it was obviously an amazing experience for the individuals who were there, and I just want to pay tribute to those who worked so hard and did so much under such very, very difficult conditions. I want to recognize what's happening in southwestern Manitoba, the four to six inches in the area around Deloraine, the impact that'll have on agriculture and the washed-out roads and so on. And, certainly, it requires and needs prompt action in terms of support for people there.

The situation around Lake Dauphin and Lake Winnipegosis, I am hearing from people of difficulties there, but, clearly, the very worst was around Lake Manitoba, St. Laurent, St. Francis, Delta Beach areas. And, in talking with a number of people there, I just want to say that this is a very, very severe situation. I have talked with, for example, with municipal officials in St.

Laurent and just want to pass on to the minister that they will be asking for an increase in their advance from $200,000 to $500,000 to deal with the infrastructure situation that they are having to deal with, and, being a small municipality, that seems to be eminently reasonable, and I hope that that can be accomplished. Certainly, we need to recognize the contributions of people at the municipal level and make sure we're there to support them in their efforts so they can provide the on-the-ground efforts. So, thank you. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public

2478 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 gallery where we have with us today, we have Patrick Falconer, Jeanette DeLong and Dale Kendel. And also in the public gallery we have Alex Forrest, president of the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg; Greg Holubowich, president, and Brad Hoekstra, secretary, for th e Edmonton Fire Fighters Association; and also Bruce Carpenter, IAFF vice-president of the Manitoba and Ontario Fire Fighters Association; and Craig MacDonald, president of the Alberta Fire Fighters Association, who are the guests of the honourable Minister of Labour and Immigration (Ms. Howard).

And also in the public gallery we have with us from Kelvin High School, we have 30 grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Miguel Bérubé. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. * (13:50) ORAL QUESTIONS Lake Manitoba Flooding Mitigation and Financial Compensation Plans Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): I want to thank the minister for the statement today in connect ion with flooding around the province and, in particular, around Lake Manitoba.

As has been indicated, Mr. Speaker, there are many, many Manitobans at this moment dealing with severe damage to their homes, to their properties. Many involved in agriculture are not looking forward to the ability to do what they would normally be doing at this time of the y ear, and that's seeding their farms, and it's created a great stress and anxiety among those hundreds of Manitoba families who today are dealing with these very high water levels. And I just wanted to ask the Premier, Mr.

Speaker, if he can indicate, in light of the fact that decisions have been made that in some cases have created what would be a deliberate flooding, particularly around Lake Manitoba, what steps his government is taking to protect those properties, and also to give people reassurance that appropriate compensation is on its way? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Again, Mr.

Speaker, the member will know of the tremendous efforts that the local emergency operations committees have put in with volunteers supported by not only volunteers from the provincial civil service, but over 700 full-time people dedicating themselves to fighting floods throughout Manitoba. And the member opposite will also know that we announced a–the most generous compensation program in the history of the province last week, which will provide essentially no deductible to people that do things to improve their properties or restore their properties that will also mitigate flooding in the future.

So we are very committed to ensuring that they get the supports they need, both to prevent damage, but in the case where damage occurs–such as yesterday where gale-force winds were blowing at over 90 kilometres an hour and wreaking havoc on people, even people that had put flood protection measures and systems in front of their property–that we will be there with them to provide this additional support and to process this additional support as rapidly as possible, including advance payments for people. Mr.

McFadyen: And I want to say to the Premier that the comments are appreciated, and certainly the need for some specific information for the many individuals being impacted is increasingly urgent. Mr. Speaker, we know that high winds do occur in this province, particularly at this time of the year, but it's the high water that is being pushed up by those winds, it's that high water that arrived there as a result of choices and decisions that the government had to make. And I want to– [interjection] I don't think there's anything that I'm saying that's at all different from what members opposite have said.

Choices that have been made had to be made by government. But those who are on th e receiving end of that water, Mr. Speaker, are today experiencing extreme levels of anxiety. There were people who had to be rescued on the front of dumpsters and people who were attempted to be rescued by helicopter. It's a very serious situation. I want to ask the Premier if he will provide some very clear information to people, both about the protective measures and, just as significantly, about the compensation for those many cases, Mr. Speaker, that are dealing with this crisis. Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, those people will get a compensation package that exceeds anything ever offered in the history of the province before.

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2479 And some of the specifi c measures: They will get 100 per cent of the cost of engineering advice for emergency or short-term flood mitigation works, up to $2,000. They will get 100 per cent of the costs of moving or raising homes and cottages–and first time ever for cottages–up to $20,000. They will have financial assistance for emergency flood protection, damages and restoration, including actual expenses for floodproofing, of a maximum of $10,000.

And if they take measures that restore their homes and address structural damage on their cottages, the co-payment will be waived as well, so they will have no initial expense in doing that. And these measures are intended to recognize the very difficult circumstances that people in rural Manitoba, particularly in the Lake Manitoba, are experiencing this year with the very in clement weather that we've got.

And the member opposite will likely know as well that the rain events that have occurred just over the last few days are going to add a lot more precipitation and water into our water systems, both in southwestern Manitoba as well as along the Assiniboine River, which we expect to rise again in Brandon and all the way through to the diversion and further into Manitoba as well. Water Level Forecasting Mr. McFadyen: And one of the most important things that the government can do is to provide the most accurate forecasting information that it can to all those people who are dealing with these issues.

Many of those people are indicating in the media today that they were caught off guard by the significant amount of water coming their way. The ability to plan in advance to have–as difficult as the circumstances may be, as much information as they can about what to expect is important. Mr. Speaker, the indication coming from government is that Lake Manitoba is expected to continue to rise even over the next couple of weeks, and as that happens the impact of that gets more and more widespread and more and more severe.

The same can be said for people around the Shoal lakes, for people on the upper Assiniboine, for people around Brandon, people along the Souris River, along the Pembina River system, Pelican and Rock lakes and elsewhere. Can the Premier provide some sense as to what the government's forecasts are saying about how this–how high the water–and the member has–and I met with residents of Lake St. Martin just the other day, Mr. Speaker, Lake St. Martin and the other communities that are impacted. Will the Premier provide, rather than playing politics from their seats, accurate forecasts for Manitobans? Mr.

Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite will know that the weather has been very unpredictable this year in spite of the best forecasts put forward by people in the private sector, people in the public sector, and the entire North America has been impacted by unusual and unprecedented weather events going on throughout the entire continent. In Manitoba, as that information becomes available, it is immediately provided to local communities so that they can do the preparations necessary and protect themselves as much as possible.

Nobody expected that we would have the weather events, for example, that have occurred over just the last weekend, which are going to add very significant amounts of water to our various rivers and streams inside of Manitoba, and some of them are experiencing second crests, as we speak. Some have experienced an additi onal crest as recently as today, Mr. Speaker. And, Mr. Speaker, what we do is we work with the local municipalities, with their emergency operations committees, with volunteers, with dedicated public servants, some of whom work all day and then go and give volunteer time.

In addition to that, we mobilize all of those people, and we will be bringing forward additional resources that will be mobilized at the community level to help people protect themselves, as much as possible, from the weather events and ensure that their families, their homes, the individuals and properties are looked after. That's our commitment. We will not relent in doing that one single day until this event is completely done with, Mr. Speaker. Lake Manitoba Flooding Water Level Forecasting Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr.

Speaker, yesterday was a very tough day for the people around Lake Manitoba as rain and heavy winds whipped up against the lake and sent waves crashing into properties. Some people were evacuated, and in some places, like Reykjavik area, were unable to leave. To say it was a scary situation for those affected would be a gross understatement, when I've

2480 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 asked time and time again for this government's short-term and long-term plans to deal with a large amount of water being pushed into Lake Manitoba. The lake has not yet peaked. It is not expected to peak until mid-June, if then. Mr. Speaker, I'd like the Minister of Water Stewardship (Ms. Melnick)–what these families can expect from the government both short and long term of a Lake Manitoba strategy. Those affected deserve some answers. Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Well, Mr.

Speaker, I'd hope that members would listen because I think the member raises a very important question. One of the hardest hit areas in the province yesterday–and there were a lot of areas that were hard hit–was in and around St. Laurent, Twin Beaches. And I thought the member would certainly appreciate a response in terms of some of the immediate issues we're dealing with, and I also wanted to pass on to the Liberal leader, who I know did raise some issues in his statement, that we're dealing with a devastating situation on the ground now, and I appreciate questions about, sort of, the mid to the long term.

We have been addressing that over the last number of weeks. But I do want to stress, whether it's St. Laurent, where we have the need for an advance so that that hard-hit municipality can deal with what needs to be done, we will be providing that kind of support. We've been working, obviously, on the situation in terms of– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, people in the rural municipalities of Woodlands, St. Laurent, Coldwell, Portage la Prairie and in communities like Delta Beach, Reykjavik and Big Bend were hit hard by yesterday's storm.

We don't know how many storms they'll face this summer or this fall. People around Lake Manitoba need to know when and what this government is doing to help protect their properties. They need to know when the lake inflows will match the outflows. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Water Stewardship tell these families and this government examining the strategies to protect the properties, which we know are going to be at risk for the foreseeable future? Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr. Speaker, I want to stress that certainly the flood control systems have been operating at full bore.

In fact , the Fairford outlet has been operating at its maximum safe level since November. There's been actually more water flowed out of Lake Manitoba than has flowed in, with our–naturally through the Portage Diversion. But, you know, that doesn't make any difference to people on the ground. Whether it's Lake Manitoba or whether it's Dauphin Lake or whether people are hit in southwest Manitoba, I think we have to understand here, this was a devastating impact. And around Lake Manitoba, Mr.

Speaker, we have been immobilizing every last source–resource available to us, a million sandbags, over 3,600 flood tubes, every available sandbag machine. We have huge commitments in terms of volunteering. But I want to stress, Mr. Speaker, this is unprecedented, and I know the member knows that because he knows that area and represents it. So we aren't underestimating the challenges we're faced with, but this is Manitoba. We– Mr. Speaker: Order. * (14:00) Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, municipalities around Lake Manitoba have been raising concerns for weeks.

This government has heard from families like the Douglases, the Kitsches, the Classens, the Dents, the Hymers, Pesclviches, Culbreths, warning you about the problems with the rising lake level. They sent you emails, wrote you letters, called you. They even begged you to have a look at every option out there to spare them and help them be prepared. Many have been evacuated. They don't know when they're going to retu rn. It's devastating for them. Mr. Speaker, natural floods are one thing. The lake is overflowing.

I want to ask the Minister of Water Stewardship: Has her department exhausted every option to address the lake level, and what else is going to be out there in store for these people for protection? Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, we're seeing unprecedented flooding this year. We've seen it all throughout the Assiniboine watershed. We've seen it all throughout the Lake Manitoba area. We've seen it

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2481 in southwestern Manitoba in terms of the Souris watershed. And I wouldn't want anyone to underestimate what happened yesterday. That was a massive storm. And, yes, we're perhaps used to some degree of wind and wave action in terms of lakes, but I've talked to people who said this is something that they cannot remember in their lifetime. Our focus today, as it has been right from the beginning of this spring flood season which is now well into close to two months, has been dealing with the reality of the situation on the ground.

We've mobilized every last resource. We're working with some very stressed municipalities and there are a lot of stressed Manitobans. But, Mr. Speaker, we're going to work together on this challenge and we–this is Manitoba–we will deal with those challenges and including for the families that the member so rightly is raising in terms of concerns in this Legislature. Agriculture Industry Economic Impact of Flooding Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr.

Speaker, yesterday's flood bulletin spanned a disturbing picture of the high rainfall levels being experienced in different regions of Manitoba over the past number of days. These heavy rains, combined with ongoing excess soil moisture conditions and spring flooding, are going to have a significant impact on spring seeding. My colleagues and I are hearing from producers across Manitoba who are very concerned about their ability to get a crop in the ground this spring. Can the Minister of Agri culture (Mr.

Struthers) indicate what type of analysis his department is undertaking about the economic impact of this spring's flooding on the Manitoba agricultural sector? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Acting Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Indeed, there are serious challenges and pressures on the farming community, and the storm that was–took place yesterday has certainly added to those pressures and is going to make it more difficult for farmers to deal with their seeding but also to deal with their livestock, and, indeed, there will be an impact. Mr.

Speaker, we–I want to inform the House that the–as well as having programs such as the Excess Moisture Insurance and other programs that are in place, the Minister of Agriculture had a meeting yesterday with the federal Minister of Agriculture to begin discussions and to look at how quickly we can put in place an AgriRecovery program to support those farmers who are facing those difficult times. I want to also say that I'm very pleased that we do have an excess moisture program in place that this government instituted and many people will be taking advantage of that. Mr. Graydon: Mr.

Speaker, we recognize some crops went into the ground last fall, but they, too, can be affected by repeated rains and standing water in the fields. Spring seeding has ground to a halt in many regions due to the flooding and heavy rains. We trust the Minister of Agriculture is in touch with his GO centres to analyze th is very serious situation affecting producers across a widespread region of the province. Mr. Speaker, can the minister provide us with an update as to how many acres of land may go unseeded if weather conditions do not immediately improve? Ms. Wowchuk: Again, Mr.

Speaker, I want to concur with the member that there is tremendous pressure on farm families right now trying to get their crop in, and there have been some of those people who have gotten a crop in, some who aren't able to get on the land. It's my understanding that about–maybe about 10 per cent of the crop has been seeded. That is significant. There is–we–there will be a tremendous impact on the farming community if those crops aren't–more crops don't get into the ground, but there are sections of the province where we may get crops into the ground before the deadline which is June 20th. So there is time, Mr.

Speaker. It's June 1st today. I'm always–I'm a farmer. I'm always optimistic, as many farmers are, that they will be able to get their crops in place. If they won't, there is Excess Moisture Insurance, and we're talking to the federal government about an AgriRecovery program– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Graydon: Mr. Speaker, where spring seeding has once started, it has now ground to a halt due to the heavy rains. Saturated soil conditions may prevent any further seeding attempts in some areas.

If producers cannot seed as expected, it's going to have a negative impact not only on producers but also on the businesses and services that are tied to

2482 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 the agricultural economy, and this, in turn, will hurt larger provincial–the larger provincial economy. Mr. Speaker, can the minister today commit to providing us with their analysis in terms of potential number of unseeded acres and the economic impact that this may have? Is this analysis under way, and if not, why not? Ms. Wowchuk: And, again, Mr.

Speaker, I want to say that I know that the farming community that does a very good job about producing food and growing crops in this province is under a tremendous amount of pressure, and I know that farmers will take every step that they can to get that crop in the ground. That is just the nature of farmers. They will try all they can. The crop insurance deadline is June the 20th. If people are not able to seed, they will be able to collect Excess Moisture Insurance, a program that I'm very proud that I was able to initiate when I was Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives.

But I want the member opposite to recognize as well that the Minister of Agricu lture (Mr. Struthers) had a meeting with the federal Minister of Agriculture yesterday to look at AgriRecovery. We all know that agricu lture is a very important industry and there is going to be an impact on our economy in this province if farmers aren't able to get their crop into the ground, Mr. Speaker. RM of St. François Xavier Flooding Mitigation and Financial Compensation Plans Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, the people that live and work along the Assiniboine River in St.

François Xavier area have been feeling the effects of flooding and worrying about dike breaches now for months. Basements are flooded, roads are washed out and the dikes continue to seep and to breach. Thousands of acres of highly productive land used for vegetable growing, berry growing and grain and canola crops are now underwater and won't be farmed this year. Mr. Speaker, can the government explain what steps are being taken to address the types of ongoing flood-related concerns bring bought forward to us by the people of St. François Xavier? Hon.

Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): I certainly appreciate the question for the member. I think it's important to note, certainly on the agricultural side, that we will have disaster financial assistance available. That is important because even though DFA does cover only damage to property, we are anticipating there will be some significant damage to property in that area and other areas as well. I also want to indicate that under DFA we are able to cover a lot of the restoration costs as well, and I know this is a concern that has been raised. I know the member's raised it.

I've had it raised with many of the reeves in affected areas as well. And, certainly, some of the additional programs we put in place have anticipated some of the particular impacts on a number of areas in the province as well. But I appreciate the question from the member, and our goal here as we deal with this very difficult flood is also to be dealing very much with the recovery stage, and there wi ll be many challenges on both sides, including the recovery, and these kind of questions are very appropriate, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Taillieu: Flows on the Assiniboine River have been kept high, which means that the Long Lake Drain has backed up and created just a huge prairie lake covering acres of farmland, Mr. Speaker. The work on the Assiniboine dikes has caused a lot of loss of farmland. Farmland has been used for borrow pits. Trees have been taken down or they've fallen down because the land is so saturated. Businesses like the vegetable growers in that area and berry farms will suffer huge losses this year and probably next year.

I'm asking on behalf of my constituents who are affected: Will a special compensation program be available to them? Will it be similar to that of the Hoop and Holler zone and those in the Lake Manitoba area, and when can they expect some communication on this? * (14:10) Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, I want to put on the record that similar concerns have been raised by reeves in a number of ar eas. Certainly the reeve of Portage raised a very similar concern. We are looking at the particular circumstances around the Assiniboine dike.

There was a significant amount of work done, certainly, going into the flood season, more than $20 million, a significant amount of work done during the flood. And thank goodness,

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2483 Mr. Speaker, we did that. Thank goodness we had the support of the military to keep those dikes going, because I can just imagine what we would be talking about today in the Assiniboine Valley if we hadn't had that united effort. But I do appreciate the concerns from the member, Mr. Speaker. [interjection] But I do appreciate the concerns of the member. And one of the key things I'll undertake–I know the Premier (Mr.

Selinger) has emphasized this as well–when we're looking at a lot of our compensation programs, we are going to make sure that they meet the needs, the intent. And the intent was certainly to deal with these kind of concerns, and I will undertake to make sure that as we review all our compensation programs, all our recovery programs, that we deal with exactly what the member is raising. Mrs. Taillieu: And I do want to also recognize and thank the many people that worked in building those dikes along the Assiniboine, and when I was out there this morning, the pe ople there also are very thankful for that. Mr.

Speaker, 32 days now, and the Assiniboine River has exceeded its capac ity, and as late as last night, there was another dike breach along that area. People who live along the Assiniboine say that they would be hit by a tsunami-like wall of water should one of those areas burst. They believe that decreasing the flows a thousand cfs would allow the river to drop about six inches, and therefore the drains would be allowed to flow back into the river instead of create the overland flooding. This would alleviate some of the imminent dangers to the homes there.

As it is, there are going to be huge repairs and cleanup costs for this area, not to mention loss of income for farms and businesses that have been so badly affected. So, Mr. Speaker, my constituents are asking and would like to know: What compensation will be available for cleanup and repairs, as well as business–loss of income to businesses and farm income? They're just looking for fair treatment. Mr. Ashton: Well, certainly, Mr. Speaker, I would caution the member, and I a ppreciate that there are concerns in that area as well, but there really are only two routes for this.

So, if that was to take place, it would mean additional pressure on the Portage Diversion and on Lake Manitoba. And just as when we're looking at the operation of our flood control systems, whatever happens in Lake Manitoba also impacts on Lake St. Martin. When you're dealing with historic flooding, the key is to try and control it as much as possible, minimize the damage and commit to recovery. That's what we have done, right from day one. When I say we, this is not a political statement. This is a lot of people coming together and a lot of the constituents of the member opposite.

Quite frankly, they're all our constituents when it comes to floods. And I want to stress that just as we've worked hard on the heroic efforts on the Assiniboine dikes to maintain that system, we will work just as hard on the recovery stage working with the exact people that the member opposite is talking about. Lake Dauphin Flooding Mitigation Strategy Preparations Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, high water levels and gale-force winds yesterday caused unprecedented destruction of homes and cottages at Lake Dauphin and even evacuations at Ochre Beach. Mr.

Speaker, can the minister tell the House what preparations were done in advance of yesterday's climatic disaster to minimalize damage to home and cottage owners at Dauphin Lake? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Well, one of the challenges we've been dealing with the unprecedented nature of the flooding is, in many cas es, you have areas that don't have permanent flood protection. Quite frankly, in some areas we've talked to the best technical expertise available, whether it be internal or external.

It is very difficult, if not impossible, to put in place–one of the major challenges, for example, in and around Lake Manitoba is when you have developments that are essentially on sand. And we saw, yesterday, Mr. Speaker, despite heroic efforts–and I wouldn't underestimate the effort to put a million sandbags in place over the last few weeks around Lake Manitoba–how difficult it was, even with those efforts, to withstand gale-force winds of over a hundred kilometres an hour. So we are dealing with a very difficult situation.

In many cases, we're doing what we can, and when I say we, that's not just the provincial government; it's our partners in the municipality, local homeowners and cottage owners and many people around Manitoba. And we'll be assessing after this storm what we can do–

2484 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Maguire: Well, Mr. Speaker, we cannot give enough credit to those people, the municipal people in those areas, but I was asking the minister in regards to what was available for preparations leading up to what ended up being a disaster yesterday. It's our understanding that sandbagging equipment may have been available but wasn't used for this situation.

And so with seven streams entering Dauphin Lake and only the Mossey River exiting, thereby backing water into Lake Dauphin, why did the government not utilize the equipment that was available over the last several weeks that it had, as it sat idle? Mr. Speaker, these citizens are telling us that they feel neglected. Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member, I certainly know at Lake Dauphin and many of the lakes in there, that we've been having sandbags delivered. Our partners, the municipalities, have been working with local residents to install them.

And I do remind the member that it wasn't that long ago there was some debate or discussion about whether we had sandbag machines that were purchased unnecessarily. Thank goodness, Mr. Speaker, we purchased those sandbag machines. And I want to stress again that we work with the local municipalities, their emergency measures co-ordinators. There are 197 municipalities in this province. We've been operating our sandbag machines 24-7. We put a million plus sandbags around Lake Manitoba. We put many sandbags in the other impacted areas, and we're going to assess, with this very major storm, our next step.

But what we're going to do, I can tell you one thing, is we're going to continue to work with those municipalities and the affected people, because this is Manitoba. When it comes to floods, we fight together, Mr. Speaker, and that's the key thing we're going to do over the next few weeks and months. Mr. Maguire: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm just reiterating what the emails and the conversations that I've had with the local citizens, and they indicate that the sandbagging equipment that's been there for–that the minister talked about, that's been running 24-7, has sat idle for the last three weeks in that area. So, Mr.

Speaker, the citizens around Lake Dauphin and area tell me that they've known for weeks that they were in jeopardy because of the extreme water levels and have expressed abandonment at the lack of attention paid to their looming disastrous situation as well. As these flooded residents of Dauphin Lake have now suffered extreme destruction to their property as well, will the minister today indicate what type of financial assistance these citizens can expect? Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I once again want to emphasize, too, to the member, that as I have explained, certainly in this House, and as we have explained in briefings with the opposition–I certainly offer that opportunity again for the member–the degree to which we have mobilized unprecedented amounts of resources. And I appreciate emails and I appreciate the contact with the member's constituents, and if there are any areas where we identify that there were faults, in terms of response, we will certainly act accordingly.

But I wouldn't want to underestimate the degree to which the municipalities have–the ones that know the area the best have been dealing with this on the front lines, and I wouldn't underestimate, Mr. Speaker, the historic mobilization of resources we've seen in and around that area and many other areas around Manitoba. And I also wouldn't underestimate, Mr. Speaker, the degree to which we're going to have to continue to stay mobilized. I know over the last week or so there's been some sense out there in some parts of Manitoba that the flood season's over.

We know it's not over and we're going to be there for the people in those affected areas. So we'll be there throughout the summer and fall and as long as it takes, Mr. Speaker. Flooding and Ice Jams Government Water Level Forecasting Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): The minister is correct to point out that Manitobans have pulled together in remarkable ways to deal with the emergencies that they're now facing across the province, Mr. Speaker.

One such group that I had the opportunity to visit this morning was the Salvation Army at their open house this morning who are providing support for people who are dealing with flooding. We've seen people rise to the challenge across the province of

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2485 Manitoba. We've had the support of our military and we do acknowledge, Mr. Speaker, that the emergency response, once we were into the emergency, really has been a great testament to the kindness and the fortitude of Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker, one of the concerns is the forecasting on the part of the government, the ability of people to know in advance, with some degree of reliability, what may be coming in the days and weeks ahead, and I just want to ask the Premier what steps he's taking to address this very serious deficiency within his government. * (14:20) Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, the member will know that th e forecasts are done on a daily basis and information is provided both from within government, from outside of government, from public and private sector agencies, all of whom make a major commitment to providing weather information to Manitobans, and as that weather information evolves and changes, updates are provided to Manitobans. All of that information is communicated to local emergency operations committees. Our emergency co-ordinators are availabl e throughout Manitoba. They work very closely with municipalities and local emergency operations committees.

They deploy resources very quickly. Our Department of Health, for example, has a system where they can locate all of the ambulances that have been bought and deployed throughout Manitoba. They can use GPS technology to deploy those ambulances to meet benchmark requirements to respond to calls as quickly as possible. Our Office of the Fire Commissioner has helicopter capability now that they didn't have before. They moved in last night, for example, in and around Lake Manitoba to provide emergency rescue. We brought into Manitoba, through the Department of Health, the STARS system of emergency rescues.

They'v e done a phenomenal job moving in and out of responding to people right on the ground and saving lives. All of these efforts are our way– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. McFadyen: It's Manitobans around the province who continue to comment on the fact that things seem to come up very quickly without warning, that they're being caught off guard in different circumstances, Mr. Speaker. Joe Johnson, who's holding the meeting today in Amaranth, indicated, Mr. Speaker, that since 1996 the warnings have been there about the very significant issues with and around Lake Manitoba.

The issues in the Shoal lakes have been around for a couple of years. In fact, the former premier made certain promises in 2006 for Brandon which were never followed through on. Mr. Speaker, the real ability of Manitobans to deal with the issues that they're now confronting is enhanced when the government is able to provide better forecasting. Mr. Speaker, we acknowledge the very good work on the part of the emergency response people at every level throughout Manitoba. We acknowledge the hard work of the minister and his willingness to be accountable to the House, to be here to respond to questions.

But the concern, Mr. Speaker, is that the Department of Water Stewardship seems not to have its act together in terms of forecasting, and I want to ask the Premier what steps he's doing to deal with that very serious weakness within this government. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the technology that we've invested in to anticipate and understand moisture conditions, weather conditions, has been at the highest level it's ever been in the history of the province of Manitoba. I can assure the members of that.

When other levels of government have retreated from providing weather information, Manitoba has stepped into the breach and provided additional technology, additional resources to provide weather information to producers and local communities. And we know, Mr. Speaker, that this has been an unprecedented year for weather events, not only in this province but throughout the entire continent of North America, and we could go beyond that to identify other weather events as well.

But you take a look at what's going on in the United States through the Mississippi River system, you take a look at what's going on in Québec with the flooding there, and you take a look at what's going on in Manitoba, Manitoba has been better prepared, more proactive with the support of the local leadership and volunteers and public servants at every level of government, with the support of the

2486 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 military who came in in a very timely fashion. Five hundred soldiers came out of Shilo within a matter of hours. Within a matter of days, 1,500 military personnel were in Manitoba. And what they told me what they were impressed with, they didn't come into a vacuum. They came into a situatio n where Manitobans were already on the front lines fighting the flood, and they were able to join with those Manitobans on a very precise operation to protect the dikes and the people– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. McFadyen: And, again, Mr.

Speaker, everybody acknowledges that very good work has been done by Manitobans in response to the emergency conditions that they are now facing. The issue is that Manitobans are telling us that they are continuously lacking information in advance about things that are expected to happen. The government has had–in advance of the emergency, the Premier had 23 photo ops telling everybody that he had the situation under control. Mr.

Speaker, what people were looking for is accurate information, recognizing that it's a very significant challenge, but now that we know how badly the forecasting system failed, Manitobans want to know what the Premier's doing about it. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, we started to anticipate the difficult potential spring conditions last fall. We knew saturation in the soil was very high. We knew that we had a lot of precipitation last fall. Decisions were made to buy additional equipment, Mr. Speaker, including Amphibexes, including HESCO barriers, including Tiger Dams, including Aqua Dams.

Additional training was put in place for local emergency operations committee– committees. And Manitoba is a jurisdiction that has unique legislation that requires every municipality to put an emergency preparation plan in place well ahead of the event. The additional $25 million spent on the Assiniboine dikes, that plan was put in place well in–early into the winter, early into the new year, and as soon as it was possible, heavy equipment was brought onto those dikes.

Manitoba public servants and Manitoba volunteers were building up those dikes to the flood record of–the flood event of record in this province: 1976 plus two feet. We went into Brandon and worked with the local leadership there to build up the dikes there to a record never seen before. All of those measures have prevented catastrophic damage throughout Manitoba, and all of the decisions that have been made have been to reduce harm to families and their homes, individuals and their property.

And, we, in spite of the challenges, have done extremely well, and we will not relent until this condition is over, and we will work with Manitobans to protect them every single day in Manitoba. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Let's have a little decorum here. The honourable member for River Heights has the floor. Lake Manitoba Flooding Water Level Forecasting Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, the people around Lake Manitoba have been suffering from very high water levels which have been exacerbated by high levels of winds for the last several weeks, and, as we're all aware, in the last 24 hours there's been incredible devastation around the shores of Lake Manitoba with many, many homes flooded and many, many people evacuated. The Premier has known since March that very high levels were expected along the Assiniboine River at Brandon, and the Premier must have known that this would result in very high use of the Portage Diversion with the potential for great problems around Lake Manitoba.

Why was it, in the many, many press releases the Premier and his government issued up until early May, there was very little mention of the potential for major flooding on Lake Manitoba? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Earlier in this question period, it was indicated very clearly that the Fairford outlet has been running at its maximum capacity, including throughout the entire winter, taking into account ice conditions.

So from very early on officials in Manitoba have taken the flood protection systems that we have in Manitoba and have worked them to the absolute maximum to protect people and their homes inside of this province. Everybody was well aware that Lake Manitoba could have very high levels of water this year. That

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2487 was made clear to everybody, and measures were put in place to minimize that kind of rising waters inside of Manitoba and to make sure that municipalities affected would have the supports they need to be ready to battle high water levels on Lake Manitoba. High water levels with gale-force winds are a toxic mixture, and it has–even people that have put sandbagging protection around their homes found themselves having to evacu ate them–their homes on a precautionary basis to ensure that their life was not put at risk.

And even in some situations, where it was not anticipated that they would get these high waters, our Office of the Fire Commissioner and our Emergency Measures people were right in there protecting them, at risk to their own lives, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the severity of the storm yesterday and the extent of the high water on Lake Manitoba have created incredible flooding, evacuation and devastation around that lake. I want to recognize all those who played an incredible and heroic role yesterday.

But at the same time it's apparent that there was insufficient advance planning for many communities around Lake Manitoba which have never before seen such flooding and devastation. Why was it, when so much was spent along the Assiniboine River from Portage to Baie St. Paul in preparation for a large flood, that so little attention was spent on the people and communities like St. Laurent and Delta Beach who've been described by some as the forgotten people of Manitoba? * (14:30) Mr.

Selinger: I just want to reite rate for the member opposite that the Fairford outlet, which takes water out of Lake Manitoba, has been operating at its absolute maximum since late last fall. That was to make sure that the lake was as low as possible, given the flood protection measures we have in place. The people in the Lake St. Martin's area, the Little Saskatchewan people, the Fairford people have experienced a great deal of hardship because of those additional flows of water which have put many of them into an evacuation situation where they've had to come into the city of Winnipeg.

So it's–I enjoy the questions from the members opposite because they really point out the great risk that has occurred throughout the entire Assiniboine Valley. Whether it's along the dikes, whether it's along Lake Manitoba, whether it's in the Souris River system, whether it's in Brandon, it underlines the unprecedented nature of the threat that has occurred this year and the extraordinary measures that everybody has had to take to deal with that threat.

And at every level and in every community and every level of government, people have worked very hard together through a great model of co-operation to fight this battle and they have done extremely well in doing it. And where there has been damage, there has been the best compensation program in Manitoba, and that's our commitment: prevent it where we can, compensate where necessary and put in place long-term measures so it won't happen again. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, at Delta Beach, which is just one of many examples, the extent of pre-flood preparedness was completely inadequate.

When I raised this problem in early May, I was told by the Minister of Emergency Measures' staff that they were focused on the Assiniboine River and that places like Delta Beach weren't even on the radar. When I raised i ssues about Delta Beach repeatedly and raised concerns about road access, the NDP government press releases sounded as if all was under control and there were super sandbags going to Delta Beach. But it turned out that these were empty super sandbags and no professionals from EMO came to check on the situation to ensure the community could fill them and place them well.

The people of Delta Beach and other communities around Lake Manitoba feel that they received to o little and too late the attention they should have got. I ask the Premier: Why were communities around Lake Manitoba so badly neglected in terms of flood preparedness? Mr. Selinger: I thank the member for the question. All the emergency operations committees of every municipality were notified early about the potential risk throughout Manitoba this year.

Many of those communities were brought–invited down to the Legislature to be given an early briefing, and our Emergency Measures co-ordination system at the provincial level started a se ries of weekly calls with local emergency co-ordinators and operations committees throughout Manitoba very early in the process to bring people up to speed. Mr. Speaker, the level of co-operation has been unprecedented and the level of communication has

2488 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 been very strong. In spite of that, in spite of preparing for the flood event of record that has created enormous challenges when we've had one-in-300-year events, when we've had the worst flooding we have ever seen in the history of the Assiniboine River Valley–those challenges have never been seen before in this province, and even with that level of challenge, people have rallied extremely well at all–in all of our communities, at all levels. Some people have had to be evacuated. Many families have had to be evacuated and that is, indeed, unfortunate.

They will be looked after and supported as much as possible. Compensation programs are being put in place at a level of generosity not seen before and they will be moved on as quickly as possible. Mr. Speaker, we will do everything we can to prevent damage. We will do everything we can to compensate people, and we are turning our mind and we have made very forward-looking commitments to improve the infrastructure for flood protection in the future. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Bethel Heritage Park (Winkler) Mr.

Peter Dyck (Pembina): The beautiful city of Winkler is set to open a new park for people to relax and enjoy their surroundings. Bethel Heritage Park is scheduled to open June the 12th and is located at the corner of Main Street and Pembina Avenue. There are a number of celebrations planned for the opening, including a ribbon-cutting ceremony, musical entertainment, a barbeque and other activities. Upon completion, Bethel Park will feature a gazebo and pavilion, several historic cairns and story boards that recognize the contributions of local citizens.

The walkways connecting the cairns, honouring the community's German and Jewish settlers–and recognize conscientious objectors. There will also be a cenotaph to honour members of the Armed Forces who died serving their country. A bronze life-size statue depicting a majestic winged angel will be the park's main attraction. The 18-foot replica of the Bethesda Fountain in New York at the park's centre also features four cherubs which represent temperance, purity, health and peace. All of this is behind a main entrance gate welcoming visitors to the park.

The 2.5-acre park will serve the community in a number of new ways. The covered stage will be open for groups to share their talents and entertain the community, and the gazebo will be a great setting to celebrate the special occasions and take photos. There are also many ways to remember the various foundations that have contributed to Winkler, including the commemorative wall to remember the historic Bethel Hospital, where Bethel Park now stands.

The building committee and the City of Winkler have worked hard to bring this project to fruition; $1.5 million was raised by the committee to go towards the park's construction. I would like to thank Bill Siemens, Phil Enns, A.L. Friesen, Don Kroeker, and the entire building co mmittee for their roles in this project. Mr. Speaker, residents of Winkler have anticipated the opening of Bethel Heritage Park for the past two years, and I know that it will be worth the wait. I would like to invite Manitobans to take time to visit Bethel Heritage Park this summer. Thank you. I Love to Read Month Ms.

Sharon Blady (Kirkfield Park): Thanks, Mr.

Speaker, for your time and attention. / For those who don't know, I'd just like to mention, / This spring I was pleased to be visiting schools / Across Kirkfield Park to break all the rules. / I told them The Secret, the tool they most need / To be the best people they dream they might be. / The Tool that poor grown- ups themselves can forget / When all that they can think of are numbers and debt. / This past spring, I went to École Bannatyne / For I Love To Read Month, a pleasure of mine. / I brought out my top guns to share The Ole Secret: / That learning to read, why, there's nothing to beat it! / With help from the brave and adventurous Mary / And her magic atlas, we learned of the prairie. / Fred Penner was next, with his tale of The Bump / Who became, to one family, a home and a chum. / I shared with the kids at WMEMS / Why books are exciting and reading's the best. / At Athlone and Sansome and St.

Charles Catholic / We picked from a mixture of new books and classics. / École Robert Browning invited me in / To read about Sneeds with a welcoming din. / That feeling of needing to read one more

chapter / Is just the right kind of excitement we're after. / This is the Secret we have to keep straight: / Imaginations need stories to keep them in shape. / My thanks to the

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2489 teachers who had me come in / For their I Love To Read month-long celebration. / Thanks mostly to the kids who listened so well. / These kids have their own unique stories to tell. / Until next year comes, happy reading! You see, / A good read is the thing that most everyone needs. Andrew and Tanis DeRuyck Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Mr. Speaker, Andrew and Tanis DeRuyck of Mariapolis, Manitoba, are the 2011 Manitoba Outstanding Young Farmers. The DeRuycks' unique mix of grain framing and farm management consulting earned them the honour.

They were chosen as this year's recipients at a banquet in Brandon, and will represent Manitoba at the National Outstanding Young Farmers celebration later this year. Andrew and Tanis both graduated from the University of Manitoba with degrees in agriculture. Twelve years ago they began farming in a joint partnership grain-beef farm with Andrew's parents. The farm included a 275 cow-calf herd and a 275-head feedlot. In 2007, the cattle were dispersed, and Tanis and Andrew incorporated their portion of the family farm. They also purchased another

section of land. Mr. Speaker, the couple's interest in farming did not stop with their family farm operation. In 2008, Andrew and Tanis DeRuyck developed a farm management business called DeRuyck Consulting Incorporated after Andrew received his mediator's certificate. Mr. DeRuyck began working with many high-end agricultural companies, including Dow AgroSciences, BASF, Fa rm Credit Canada and CIBC. The consulting business has been–has given Andrew and Tanis the opportunity to work with many producers and advisory services to provide financial and strategic planning advice.

In 2009, the couple joined financial adviser Mark Sloane to form Right Choice Management Consulting. Although the DeRuycks have been busy with their consulting business, they have not forgotten their roots, and continue to operate as producers. Their grain operation covers 1,120 acres and includes custom work. Of course, they would not be able to manage this huge undertaking themselves, and have found their children, Ben, who is nine, and six-year-old Paige to be a great help for the family business. Mr.

Speaker, on behalf of the entire Carman constituency, I would like to congratulate Andrew and Tanis DeRuyck on being recognized as Manitoba's Outstanding Young Farmers for 2011. Their hard work and innovation has made them deserving recipients of this honour. I wish them all the best as they hope to become Canada's Outstanding Young Farmers at the national event in Brandon this November. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Fred Douglas Foundation Awards Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr.

Speaker, the Fred Douglas Society unites health, heart and home by bringing together many generations to care for and learn from our seniors. Mr. Speaker, seven years ago, the Fred Douglas Foundation decided to formally honour those volunteers who used their knowledge and passion to improve seniors' quality of life. This year I attended the annual human itarian awards dinner on May 11th to recognize the nominees and pay tribute to the award recipients. * (14:40) Seniors have unique needs when it comes to housing, personal care and health.

However, the ability to make a difference in a person's life can start with acts as simple as lending a listening ear. Congratulations to all the nominees who respectfully help seniors where they can. This year's nominees were: for the Love of Caring Award, Shirley May, Linda and Larry Nazer, and Mary Ross; for the Art of Caring Award, Laurie Howard, Dr. M.B. MacMillan and myself; and for the Learning by Caring Award, for high school and post-secondary students, Olivia Ballentyne, Kaleigh Cameron, Lorelei Everett and Christine Vetus.

This year's winners come to the table with very different resumés, but ha ve their commitment to seniors in common. Shirley May won the Love of Caring Award for her in volvement with Harrow United Church and with the Meals On Wheels program. Laurie Howard took home the Art of Caring Award for embracing the importance of storytelling to include marginalized peoples, specifically, Alzheimer's and aphasia patients. And in the last category, two young women received

2490 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 awards: Kaleigh Cameron, who currently–who's currently in Brandon University's nursing program, has a passion for working in palliative and long-term care; Lorelei Everett, a student at Children of the Earth school, who is enrolled in the Medical Careers Exploration Program, recei ved the award for her volunteer work with Deer Lodge Centre, Health Sciences Centre and Pan Am Clinic. Mr. Speaker, heartfelt congratulations to everyone nominated, and a huge thank you to the Fred Douglas Foundation for advocating on behalf of this unique group.

It has always been important to recognize volunteers' good work. Even more important, however, is to celebrate the fact that their compassion will continue to ripple through the lives of countless people in our community. Community Flooding Concerns Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak with conc ern about the continuing issues with the flood in Manitoba this year. To begin with, I want to recognize the heroic efforts made by so many Manitobans in the last 24 hours. I want to recognize the efforts of homeowners, of farmers, of volunteers, of municipal and federal officials.

I want to recognize, in particular, the efforts of municipal and emergency personnel as well as volunteers in helping with the evacuations from communities like St. Laurent and area yesterday. Today, in talking to an individual at Laurentia Beach, he described the situation there yesterday as beyond comprehension and beyond words. He described unbelievable chaos and destruction. He told of a trickle tear leak in a dike, in a sandbag dike, which turned into a large unstoppable flow within two minutes. Septic tanks, decks, children's playhouses went floating by in the storm waters.

The lake in some places has moved inland by one to two miles from where it was just 24 hours earlier. With the evacuation, multiple families have taken refuge in neighbours' homes. The courage and the friendship shown by one Manitoban to another has been extraordinary. We can all be thankful that we have a province where helping others is such a strong tradition, and where this tradition continues so well under such adverse conditions of we've been seeing recently in Manitoba. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on House business. Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, on House business. Would you call third reading of Bill 6, please. Mr. Speaker: Okay, we'll deal to orders of the day. We'll deal with concurrence and third reading of Bill 6, The Workers Compensation Amendment Act. CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS Bill 6–The Workers Compensation Amendment Act Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister charged with the administration of The Workers Compensation Act): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald), that Bill 6, The Workers Compensation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les accidents du travail, reported from the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Motion presented. Ms. Howard: It's my extreme honour to be able to stand today and speak to this bill that has gone through the House and gone through committee, and, of course, I want to welcome, as you did earlier, the many firefighters we have with us in the gallery today. This bill ensures–this bill does a few things. It ensures that WC benefits will not be reduced when indexing factors are negative in any year.

But I think the most interesting part of the bill and the reason why folks have been watching this bill with great attention is that it expands the list of presumptive diseases for firefighters to include multiple myeloma, primary site prostate cancer, primary site skin cancer and, for the first time in Canada, primary site breast cancer. By adding these new conditions–there are now 14 presumptive cancers including in the firefighting presumption. I would note, when we introduced this legislation, it was extremely moving to me to have so

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2491 many female firefighters in attendance that day, and, as I met them and talked to them, I couldn't help but think that their pictures were going to be on the television news that evening and in the newspaper–of the very many girls that were going to look at those pictures and know that they too could one day grow up to be a firefighter and when they did that they were going to live in a province that was going to protect their ability to serve and their ability to serve safely.

Manitoba, of course, was the first province in Canada to recognize cancer as an occupational risk of firefighting, and our legislation has been the template for seven provinces and two territories since 2002. Almost every province that has adopted this kind of legislation has used the Manitoba legislation word for word, and, of course, this legislation has not been confined to Canada, it spread across the United States in jurisdictions such as Ohio and Alaska.

And a lot of the credit, I think, for the advocacy and the work that has resulted in that goes to Alex Forrest, who is in the gallery today, and his brother and sister firefighters who've been tireless champions of firefighter health and safe ty, and I want to thank them today. In fact– Mr. Speaker: Order. I don't want to put a sour note on this, but I must remind our guests that there's to be no participation by our guests and that also includes applauding. I'm sorry I have to relay our rules to you, but that is our rules of the House and it pertains to all guests of the Chamber. Please continue. Ms.

Howard: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And now this legislation is making its way across the world to countries in Europe, like Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Ireland, Iceland, and also we know that next week Mr. Forrest will be in Australia to make a presentation in front of the Australian Parliament, and we're hoping and expecting that legislation will be forthcoming in Australia as well.

We're taking a great step forward in expanding the list of presumptions in this legislation, and I'm also pleased to announce that two weeks ago Alberta went forward with legislat ion for these same four conditions that have been listed in this legislation and I hope will be passed here today. We know we've got firefi ghters from other cities as well that have been working to further the cause of firefighter health and safety. I also want to take a moment, Mr. Speaker, to thank the leadership of the member for Transcona (Mr.

Reid) and the minist er of Intergovernmental Affairs and Transportation who were the first to bring this issue to this Legislature in the 1990s, who brought it in the form of petitions and private member bills and were leaders on that, and, of course, when we became government we took on that leadership and passed legislation to make it so. We're proud of what we've been able to do in partnership with firefighters, and I want to, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of all of us in this Legislature recognize these brave men and women and dedicate this legislation to all of them. Mrs.

Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I'm pleased to speak on this bill for third reading, Bill 6, The Workers Compensation Amendment Act, Mr. Speaker, which we know amendments are made in–to these provisions to ensure that indexing does not result in benefits being reduced. That's one of the positions of the act as explained by the minister already. * (14:50) And the other, of course, is the expansion to include four new cancers in the presumptive list, Mr. Speaker, which would be multiple myeloma and primary site prostate, skin and breast cancers. So we have heard that this is leading legislation.

We are very pleased to support the legislation. We indicated this right away when the bill was brought in that we would be supporting this legislation. Want to thank the fire department officials that are here with us today and welcome you here. And also, I do also want to say to Mr. Forrest in the gallery that his efforts have been recognized in the province in the leading work that you've done, and certainly internationally as well, as we've heard.

And certainly from committee, we know that your presentation–when I listened to your report at the committee, I was quite impressed by the knowledge and the work that has been done on this in terms of scientific data and collection so that this is actually based on some scientific evidence, Mr. Speaker.

2492 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 And, you know, Mr. Speaker, there is a–something that we do need to recognize and that is the work that these brave men and women do in firefighting where they go into buildings where people are coming out of, running out of, they're running into, and with no fear of what they may encounter. And what they can encounter is a number of things, and it's more complicated now, I think, than ever with the number of chemicals and composite materials that are in homes today.

And I think it is important as well that in recognizing these exposures and doing this as we are doing in legislation, we also recognize that we have a job to do, and we have a job to do to compensate, through workers compensa tion as we are doing today, but we also have a job to do in looking at how we can prevent the effects, the exposures. There are improvements in the use of masks and various other devices that firefighters use and certainly one of the things that we must work toward is being able to prevent the impact of the work experience on the health of firefighters, in particular on these cancers.

And, of course, we know when these burn, they create other nauseous fumes and different things that we're not really familiar with, Mr. Speaker, and so there's all these kinds of things that these people are faced with when they–when they're just going every day to do their jobs. So we recognize the importance of this and, certainly, as we said right from the beginning, we do support this bill, Mr. Speaker, and we'd like to pass it as quickly as possible. So thank you very much. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to Bill 6 and to support Bill 6.

I want to recognize and pay a tribute to the firefighters who are here, Alex Forrest and others, and to recognize that it's tremendously important not only that we are doing this, but that we're doing it in a way that makes sense, that is based on scientific evidence and which recognizes the impact of exposure during their work experience fighting fires, and that it recognizes, as we do in this legislation, that multiple myeloma, that primary site prostate cancer, primary site skin cancer and primary site breast cancer are all linked to exposures in the workplace for firefighters.

I think it is very important in making this recognition that we recognize the real impact of these exposures, that they are not trivial, that the exposure is done to help all Manitobans to deal with the tragic circumstances of a fire, that these exposures have a real impact on the lives of real people who are trying to help all of us. And that is not going to be a simple effort.

It is not going to be simple to do, but it is a challenge which we need to undertake, because the larger, long-run and most, you know, important in terms of preventing future cancers is doing what we can to prevent these exposures in one way or another. And we won't do it by completely eliminating fires, so we must do it in other ways.

And whether it is, in part, by identifying the particular chemicals that are involved, whether it is, in part, by looking at how we can decrease the exposures by better masks or ventilation in some fashion, that step by step we do need to dedicate ourselves, not just as we're doing today to compensation, but in the future to trying to prevent these adverse health effects, because we would all like firefighters to live a lot longer and not get cancers in the first place. That must be our long-run goal, and let us never lose sight of that important goal as well as this goal of compensation. Thank you. Mr.

Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is concurrence and third reading of Bill 6, The Workers Compensation Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Some Honourable Members: Unanimous. Mr. Speaker: Would you like–you would like it recorded as being voted on unanimously? [Agreed] Okay, that will be recorded unanimously. House Business Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, on further House business. We're prepared to move into concurrence this afternoon.

I wonder if we might have a short recess to make sure the ministers that have been called are prepared to move into concurrence. Five minutes? Mr. Speaker: First of all, is it the will of the House to have a short recess so that the ministers that have

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2493 been called can be called into the Chamber to answer the questions that will be put to them? Is there agreement on that? Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Offi cial Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, our critic for Justice is ready to go with the Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan) and the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald), who are both here, if you want to proceed with that. Ms. Howard: As long as that's acceptable to the official opposition, then we're pleased to proceed on that basis. Mr.

Speaker: From all indications, what I've heard is that it is acceptable, and so now we will–orders of the day, we will now move into Committee of Supply to deal with concurrence motion. Madam Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. * (15:00) COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY Concurrence Motion Madam Chairperson (Marilyn Brick): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. The committee has before it for consideration the motions concurring in all Supply resolutions relating to the Estimates of Expenditure for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2012.

The Official Opposition House Leader previously tabled the following list of ministers who may be called for questioning and debate on the concurrence motion: the minister for the Executive Council, the Minister for Water Stewardship, the Minister for Health and the Minister for Justice. The ministers are to be questioned concurrently. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Yes, Madam Chairperson, just wanted to divert to show my flexibility and ask a few questions first of the Minister of Health, if I may.

She'd be disappointed, I know, if I didn't ask some questions regarding a favourite topic of both of ours, that being the Bethesda emergency room expansion which has been announced more times than I can remember, but certainly going back to about three years ago, perhaps three and a half years ago, that the announcement was made. Since that time, I know the minister has provided, and other members of her government have provided, different deadlines and timelines for when the expansion might begin.

She knows full well and I think she appreciates that the community is quite anxious for this to begin and in some ways have probably lost a degree of patience, which is remarkable for a very patient community, I might add. But the minister, earli er this year, made a commitment to me in this House during question period that the tender would be issued and construction would begin this spring. I don't have my calendar in front of me. I don't know when spring ends and summer begins. I think it might be later this month around the third week of June, or something like that.

Can she indicate whether or not this most recent timeline of tender and construction beginning in spring of this year is still holding true? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Yes, Madam Chairperson, I am pleased to inform the member that we are on track, for the most part. I can say that there have been some challenges this spring in a variety of areas with parts of our capital department being diverted to work on issues concerning flood and some other matters. There are a pretty significant number of capital projects under way.

I can inform the member that I would anticipate by week's end information concerning tender will be released. And the regional health authority will go through that process. We believe, because of a lot of front-end preparation that has happened that the process will unfold and the tender will be awarded and that construction will begin swiftly thereafter. But to reiterate to the member, I think it–we're confident to say that by week's end, information concerning tender shall be released and we hope for construction upon the award of that tender to swiftly follow.

So we're on track; we may be a couple of weeks behind that spring-summer turnover, but by all accounts, given some of the challenges that have been faced for all Manitobans this spring with flooding, I think we're in a good position to move forward on Bethesda. We know that a lot of work that has been done since the announcement has involved consultation with the community and discussions of potential capacity in the ER and some expansions from the original vision. We believe that that challenge is

2494 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 going to be met and that the final product will be very good. Mr. Goertzen: I share the minister's optimism in terms of what the final product will look like. Certainly, the expectation, the hope of the community and the Bethesda Foundation, who've been more than a generous partner in the project, in terms of its commitment, so we all hope that the final product is one that will hold the community in good stead for awhile.

We know there's a number of pressures in the community not just on the health-care field but in a number of different areas as a result of immigration and other sources of growth within the region. I appreciate the fact that the minister has indicated that the tender should come out later this week. I'm tempted to ask her what her definition of the end of the week is, but I don't want to be too forceful on that. I think that's the most narrow time frame I've been given, so I'll take that. I recognize that there are other pressures on the government in terms of expenditures.

Of course, that would be more comforting if this was the first sort of delay on the project. This has been delayed for three or four years now so there's been ample opportunity, and I know that there's been unique situations happening this spring, but certainly in the past number of years that should not have been the case or the problem in terms of the delay. I wonder if the minister had the opportunity to see an

article in the Steinbach Carillon , a very well-read paper in Manitoba. It was in May of this year, so just last month on the 5th, and there were some comments made by surveyors who were at the Bethesda ER and–the Bethesda Hospital and they were commenting on the ER. Those surveyors were there as part of the accr editation process that's undertaken, and their words were, they were flabbergasted that the emergency room hadn't been started. I guess they'd been there in 2008 as part of the accreditation process and so when they came back, they were stunned, or flabbergasted is the exact word, that it hadn't begun.

In fact, the vice-president of the RHA said the surveyors, they were all flabbergasted by that. They couldn't wrap their brain around how the process works at the provincial Treasury Board and Manitoba Health. Is there any explanation that the minister can give as to why it's taken so long for this project to get going when even surveyors who are quite apart from the political pr ocess–they're not elected representatives but they're part of the accreditation process–they're stunned and flabbergasted that it hadn't begun. What's taken so long?

I understand the issues this spring, but why has there been such a delay leading up to it? Ms. Oswald: Madam Chair, I did see the article. It was colourfully written, I felt, and interesting. It, I suppose, represented the point of view of one group, and, you know, I respect that . It's a free country. But I can certainly tell the member and all members of the Legislature that, you know, we made a commitment in '07 to provide an expanded rebuilt facility and we will deliver on that commitment.

We have been working, of course, with the community, with the regional health authority on ensuring that the planning and the design of this process would be such that space would be available for patient visits that, you know, exceed 25,000 a year. I think space would be needed and processes would need to be in place to ensure that there wouldn't be a temporary closure of the ER. Again, we have, as I've said before, rebuilt, renovated or built from the ground up over 100 facilities since 1999.

This has been a very active file in terms of building health capital, and we do know that planning has been under way for some time and that the community is, as the member has said earlier, extremely generous and very well organized and have been anxiously anticipating this build. I can say that there are other ar eas of the province that have also got projects that the department has been working on very diligently. The time has come for Bethesda, and, as I sa id before, information concerning the tender will happen by week's end, I would anticipate.

The RHA will be able to use its processes that it has at its disposal to issue information about that tender swiftly thereupon, and we look forward to the successful proponent being chosen and the work being done. The people of Steinbach deserve no less, and, indeed, there has been lots of capital construction, and it's now Steinbach's turn, and that's just what's happening. * (15:10) Mr. Goertzen: I'm–they'll be happy to hear that it's their turn.

I think they probably thought it was their turn a while ago, but, regardless, not to dwell on the point because I don't think it'll move the ball any further down the field any quicker. On–in the article, though, however–and I appreciate the minister feels it was colourfully written, I'll pass it on to Grant Burr, who was the

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2495 author of the

article and a good reporter for the Carillon. It also went on to quote the vice-president of the RHA in speaking of the surveyors who are doing the accreditation. He said that they couldn't believe how low their infection rates were at Bethesda, and he made those comments because the central reprocessing area is so aged at the facility. And the surveyors were surp rised that there wasn't a higher infection rate given how old the facility was, and that speaks more generally to the surgical units themselves and how old they are and in need of replacement.

I know that when the minister was out making the announcement on the ER back in 2008–and the time does fly in this business and many others, I suppose–she made some comments about how there would obviously be a need to start looking at the surgical centres, and that was, you know, then, back in 2008. What progress can she report in terms of prioritizing that project in the capital health funding? Ms. Oswald: And the work continues with the regional health authority and with the professionals at Bethesda in configuring the hospital in the way that's going to best serve patients.

And, you know, while it may be intimated by the member opposite that nothing has been happening, you know, nothing could be further from the truth. We know that the initial proposal for the ER project, I believe, was somewhere in the neighbourhood of a 6,000-square-foot expansion.

And we know that with discussions that have gone on, with assessments, with dreams being put forward by the community and–about their needs that the project really has increased to be some–over some 40,000 square feet, which will be taking into account issues of infection control and all of the elements that have gone into the construction of new emergency rooms around the province, as well as looking at some of the unique needs of the community. So that–those conversations have been very active. Lots of planning has gone on. The work and discussions concerning new surgical units is ongoing as well.

Of course, our goals right now and energies are dedicated to completing the project for the emergency room, but the discussions concerning new surgical suites are happening concurrently, and I can assure the member that we're taking them very seriously. Mr. Goertzen: In the same article, it indicates that a letter was sent from the deputy minister of Health putting new restrictions–and I'm quoting, now, the article–putting new restrictions on health plan discussions which included the annual list of capital project priorities. The

article indicates that

whereas these discussions used to happen in open meetings, they now had to be–take place behind closed doors because they were considered advice to the minister, and so they had to be in closed-door sessions. And the directors of the RHA expressed concern about that, suggesting that it didn't really feel like a good decision, although I think one of the regional–or one of the directors on the RHA indicated that they sort of felt their hands were tied. Is that the case?

Are those–the discussions now having to take place behind closed doors in terms of health-care planning and th e prioritization of capital projects in the RHA? Ms. Oswald: I do understand that a letter of that nature concerning discussions and advice to the minister was sent by the Deputy Minister of Health. It was my understanding that the deputy minister, when he took the chair, looked at the

interpretation of the rules and the protocols around advice to the minister and did send this communication, not to be a change, but to be a reminder about how discussions were to occur. It's been my understanding that that was always the process but that this letter was new. What I would say generally is that we want the regional health authorities to be engaged with their community and with their citizens and to be providing as much inform ation as possible and, probably more to the point, receiving as much advice as possible from the public.

We know that when the external review was done of regional health authorities a couple of years ago, that was one of the central recommendations, was re-engaging the public to ensure that they have a voice in how their health care is delivered. And so our view is certainly to broaden the nature of communication between RHA officials and the public. And, certainly, we have asked the deputy minister to provide clarification to board chairs and CEOs about the nature of his communications to them, reiterating what has been an existing policy versus any

interpretation that this was something new or something that was being disallowed. So I appreciate the member's question, and if this has caused any concern in the regional health authority, I want to assure him that we have asked the deputy to clarify those statements. We want communications that are appropriate and, indeed, have historically occurred to continue and we also

2496 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 want the deputy to be able to communicate about the nature of discussions that are considered advice to the minister, a policy–or a protocol that's been in place for a long time. I think he was clarifying that and, in doing so, there was some miscommunication. So there needs to be some discussion about it going forward and I will concede that point. Mr. Goertzen: And maybe the minister can clarify for me, then, because I may be a little bit confused myself.

In the article, it indicates that the directors of the regional health authority used to be able to approve the annual health plan at an open meeting of the board. And now, as a result of the letter from the Deputy Minister of Health, the

interpretation of that letter by the regional health authority is that the annual health plan now has to be considered behind closed doors, at a closed-door, in camera discussion. So I guess what I'm asking on behalf of the regional health authority is: Can they continue to do business as they did before and have the annual health plan, which is in some ways very much a community document, discussed at an open meeting and not behind closed doors as advice to the minister? Ms.

Oswald: Again, I would tell the member that we want as much information as possible to be communicated with the public in an open and transparent way. It's my understanding that the issue that the deputy minister was endeavouring to communicate was the fact that a number of health plans contain information about capital projects that also contain information about costings, projected costings and projected investments that need to be made.

And the point was being made that there is the potential to be tainting some tendering processes and that that information needed to be, you know, kept carefully as tender processes were engaged in and completed.

So, as I said to the member, it is our hope that every effort is made to clarify which elements, you know, should not be sent out to potentially result in inflated prices for projects that are forthcoming and which elements of the health plan–which, in my view, would be the majority, could be openly and freely shared with the public as it should be. * (15:20) So, again, I think that a letter that was endeavouring to clarify a policy that has existed for a long time–for good reason, obviously–did, in fact, cause some confusion and there's work going on to clarify that. Mr.

Goertzen: Well, and then I just want to leave it, and I'll turn it over to my colleagues, who, I know, have questions as well for the minister. So I just want to leave it, then, with the assurance that there is going to be communication with the RHA to clarify the clarification that was sent out by the deputy minister, so that at least a good portion of this annual health plan can be discussed and debated the way it always was before in a public forum. Ms.

Oswald: Yes, Madam Chairperson, again, I will reiterate that–not just stemming from advice from the expert external reviewers, but coming even most recently from the review that was done of the NOR-MAN Regional Health Au thority, the advice is very clear, that engagement of the public and seeking advice from the public is critically important, and so we want to follow through from those recommendations and apply them across regional health authorities.

So, yes, we want to have as much public dialogue and open discussion as is possible, while at the same time being responsible and good stewards of the taxpayers' money, while dealing with financial information that could compromise the tender process. I would also say to the member that we have a bill in front of the House that speaks to the entire issue of increasing transparency and that's exactly what it is we're trying to achieve. And while many regional health authorities meet and, in fact, exceed what it is that we're asking for within the context of this legislation, we know that there is more work to do.

So within the context of those three themes, we do want to have open, public dialogue and, yes, there will be communication among CEOs and board chairs about what is absolu tely appropriate to take place in a public forum and what needs to be handled with caution, in terms of tendering, procurement and so forth. Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Madam Chairperson, I have a constituent that has been prescribed Simponi, the drug Simponi, for ankylosing spondylitis, the disease that she has, and it's a crucial drug for her to take, to allow her to continue working and to have some quality of life.

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2497 And, although there is some private coverage that they have, they are required to pick up the remainder of the cost by themselves. Now this drug is covered in nine other provinces across Canada, and her question to me that, of course, I have to ask that the minister is: What's the holdup in Manitoba? Why isn't Simponi covered in Manitoba, when nine other provinces have covered it? Ms. Oswald: I thank the member for the question, and on the specific drug itself, I will commit to her to investigate where it might be in the process of coverage.

I don't know off the top of my head, but I will check. I can say to the member generally that we have here in Manitoba a very robust process for reviewing drugs that go through the processes on a national scale. We have processes in place that allow Manitobans to see the expansion of coverage; over 2,500 more drugs that have been added to the formulary in our time in office, but also with a lot of work being done with pharmaceutical companies to ensure that Manitobans are getting the best possible financial benefit for the coverage of those drugs.

We've done this, you know, on generics through utilization management agreements, and there's much work that has gone on in expanding coverage. So I will commit to the member from River East to look specifically into this drug for this individual, who clearly, according to what she's telling me about, receives great benefit from it, and try to provide her with some information about when this is something that might be expected here in Manitoba. Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Chair, and I thank the minister for committing to get that information back.

I guess and I know that the minister has indicated quite often that we have a very robust process. But that robust process has done nothing to help my constituent who, if she lived in nine other provinces across the country, would have the coverage for this medication. So I just wanted to put that on the record, and she has pleaded with me to try to get some help and some information for her. And so that's what I am doing today, and I would hope that the minister would be able to get back to me very quickly with information, so that I might be able to share it with my constituent. So I thank her for that. Ms.

Oswald: Yes, Madam Chair, and again I appreciate her advocacy on the part of her constituent. We do know that there are occasions where Manitobans see drugs listed first in the nation, and that is of great benefit to individuals that are needing medications in that realm. There are occasions where we don't place first. This would be one of those times, and, you know, we will really work hard to ensure that we're doing the best that we can to be responsible to Manitoba taxpayers and, most importantly, trying to provide coverage as swiftly as possible for Manitobans.

And, on the subject of this drug, I will ask these questions today and endeavour to try to get an answer just as swiftly as possible for the member's constituent. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Just a final question on what my colleague from Steinbach was asking. He was making reference to a letter sent by the deputy minister, putting new restrictions on health plan discussions. Can the minister provide me a copy of that letter? Ms. Oswald: Yes, just to clarify what I said to the member opposite.

I'm not sure if the member could hear–it was quite chatty in here–that, indeed, the letter that was written by the deputy minister to the regions was, I am informed, reiterating existing policy concerning discussions that need to take place in a fashion that wouldn't compromise our ability to put forward tenders. So I know the member, in her question, said new policy. I don't believe that it was new; I think it was reiterating. And, certainly, I'll ask the deputy if it's okay by him to release the letter. I'm pretty sure he'll say yes. So unless he says otherwise, yes, I'll get you a copy of that letter. Mrs.

Driedger: I'd like to now move on to a few questions about the NOR-MAN regional report, the review that was just done in that area. And, according to a number of people out there, they felt that the government sidestepped two of the most serious controversies in the Flin Flon-The Pas region, and that was financial management and the quality of care, including physician competency. Now, the two–the committee that was looking at these issues said that these two particular issues were too big for it for handle.

Can the minister just indicate why there wasn't broader criteria and the expertise brought in to fully review the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority right from the get-go and

2498 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 why that proper expertise wasn't put on to the committee to look at those broader issues? * (15:30) Ms. Oswald: Madam Chairperson, what I can inform the House is that the committee was formed. The external review team was formed, based on the nature of the kinds of issues that we felt were of greatest concern, and it was a very, very good team.

And, as the review process evolved and further issues emerged, the team made it clear that perhaps a more extensive and detailed audit should take place over the course of the review and, indeed, in their final report made the recommendation that Manitoba Health go in to conduct an internal audit on some of the issues. In fact, as the review was unfolding, it was the decision in Manitoba Health to call in financial auditors in advance of the completion of the review. So, in fact, a financial audit is under way in NOR-MAN.

We took a step beyond what was recommended by the reviewers, and have had the Department of Finance be the ones to be at the helm of this review. So, in fact, you know, I've seen the member's comments in the media. It was not a sidestep but a quickstep; the audit is already under way. Mrs. Driedger: I would like to ask the minister why she didn't ask the Auditor General to go in, and why she has chosen to actually do an internal audit, instead of having somebody that is totally unbiased, like the Auditor General, go in and do that review? Ms.

Oswald: The reviewers recommended that Manitoba Health go in to do the review. We took the step to send in members from the Department of Finance, very capable individuals. If we find that there is more reason to call in further review–financial auditors, then we will take that step. It certainly is my view that there are capable, competent, excellent, in fact, folks in the Department of Finance to do that review. But, again, if they say that more needs to be done, we'll have them do that. But I've never known those folks to be particularly biased, says the Minister of Health.

They're a little too focused sometimes, I find. Mrs. Driedger: Does the minister not, though, view the fact that, had the auditor gone in, the perception of a more independent review would have been more beneficial overall? Why did she just so quickly jump on the recommendation, as she said, from the review committee, and why not, in her own mind, determine that this might have been better managed by the auditor and the auditor's team, rather than doing an internal review?

Because an internal review certainly doesn't send off, necessarily–and no discredit to the, you know, the people from the department, indeed, there's some great expertise there. But, when we have an Auditor General, and this is their job, to look at issues like this, why wouldn't the minister have just decided that that was the better route to go? Ms. Oswald: Well, again, we did take the step that was beyond what the reviewers ultimately recommended, to bring in the Department of Finance to look at some specific issues that were raised by the reviewers that they felt needed a more in-depth analysis.

You know, I felt at the beginning of the line of questioning I was, you know, being accused of going too slowly on the financial audit; I now understand that I'm going too quickly on the financial audit. But I'll be very clear on the fact that if there is information that is brought to the fore that requires an additional level of analysis, we won't hesitate to do that. The information that has been raised and the questions that have been raised, in my view, I think can be very competently and proficiently handled by the professionals in the Department of Finance.

And we'll look at the outcomes of that audit and decide if further work needs to be done accordingly. Mrs. Driedger: In looking at this issue there, does the minister have any sense of why nurses' complaints about patient care were ignored? Ms. Oswald: I think one of the things that we see in the outcome of the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority review is concerns with some of the relationships among professionals.

We have seen, in the context of the review, that there are most definitely some strained relationships between physicians and, by extension, potentially strained relationships existing between physicians and nurses. We know that there were a number of recommendations concerning improvements that need to happen in dealing with people in leadership roles, and we know that there is, quite frankly, a culture shift that needs to happen in terms of individuals in positions of leadership and power and those that report to them.

These are very, very complex issues, but I know that the chair of the board and the board of the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority have embraced all of the recommendations–have, indeed, welcomed the

June 1, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2499 prospect of bringing in external governance experts to provide them with some guidance on how to transform a culture in the regional health authority that, by all accounts from the reviewers, is very challenging. It is possible that within the context of physician-nurse relationsh ips that nurses were not feeling heard in raising some issues. This is a concern. It would be in any venue, and we know that the board is committed to restructure their leadership and to provide new direction and rebuild a culture of trust and collegiality.

Again, they did say in their review that if there were very specific issues concerning individual cases that those cases ought be reported to the region or, more specifically, to the College of Physicians and Surgeons or Registered Nurses, as appropriate, so that more specific investigation can occur. So, again, in my reading of the review, I would think that if any such circumstances did exist, that they existed as a result of some strained relationships, which the board has committed to work on and transform for the betterment of all citizens of the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority. Mr.

Goertzen: I have another question for the Minister of Health. She indicated to me earlier that there would be a tender announcement or information coming forward on the Bethesda ER sometime before the end of this week. So now I'm going to push my luck a little bit, and while we're in the mode of making announcements, there's been lots of discussion about a crisis stabilization unit in the city of Steinbach and the need to have that kind of a facility.

I understand that the city or people in the city have stepped forward to provide, perhaps, the place–a capital investment by providing the location of a CSU, and that this would be important to those who are having a mental heal th crisis, that there isn't an appropriate place to take them within an hour and a half drive right now. And that's a long way from the community, not just in terms of getting them to the place where they can get the appropriate help, but also then having them far and away removed from those who might aid in their recovery who are closest to them.

Can she indicate for me whether or not we will see an announcement on a CSU for the city of Steinbach and, in extension, for the southeast region sometime in the near future as well? Ms. Oswald: I know there is a lot of work going on concerning this discussion. The member has articulated quite well why a crisis stabilization unit would be of considerable benefit in the region.

And I can say to him that I know that there are a number of discussions under way on this subject. * (15:40) I looked at the notes I have in front of me and don't have the information that he needs, but may get it imminently to try to provide a more precise timeline for the nature of those discussions. If I don't get it imminently, I will commit to the member to have a discussion with him post haste on the status of the CSU. Mrs. Driedger: Can the Minister of Health tell us if she's ever toured any of the Winnipeg ERs? Ms. Oswald: Yes. Mrs. Driedger: Can she indicate which ones and in what years? Ms.

Oswald: I believe I've been to all of them, some more than once, and this is not as the mother of a five-year-old, but as the Minister of Health. I would have to get back to the me mber to provide her with sort of dates and times of when I've been to the ERs. I know that I've been pre-construction, post- construction and when there have been challenges in ERs I've been to speak with staff on intervening issues. So, off the top of my head, I can't tell you what the exact

schedule was but, sure. Mrs. Driedger: I do have some of that information, not the most recent, but I have actually FIPPA'd for it in the past, to see how much the minister has actually spent out there on the field. Has she ever, during the time of Brian Sinclair's death and after that period of time, did she ever take a tour of the Health Sciences Centre ER, just to have a sense of what was going on there at the time and to have a sense of the surroundings? Ms. Oswald: Yes. Mrs. Driedger: I have recently toured that ER myself and found out that the waiting area itself is not constructed big enough, and I was also made

2500 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 1, 2011 aware of the fact that the original design of that ER was–waiting room was much larger than it was, but that this government scaled it back to save money, and now, in order to do renovations there, it's going to cost much more and it's going to cost about $2 million because of the fact that the design and the further development and the changes were mismanaged. How much does the Minister of Health know about what's going on there with the redesign now? Ms.

Oswald: Well, certainly, as emergency rooms, the waiting rooms and the full emergency rooms, have been reconstructed over the last 11 years, there has been a lot of work that has gone on, consultation with staff not the least of which. So there's a lot of information about emerging best practice, uniqueness of clientele and so forth. Again, I would have to perhaps look back on construction plans from years prior to me being in the chair of the Minister of Health to validate some of the member's claims about what was in an original plan versus what ended up in the final construction.

But I can tell her that, after the tragedy of the death of Brian Sinclair, there were a number of recommendations that came forward concerning all aspects of care from staffing levels, from complements of social work that's available, from culturally appropriate staffing being on hand and, indeed, capital construction, and the need for amended configuration and construction, and so that–there's a lot of work that's under way regarding the upgrade that is going to happen across emergency rooms.

So, when the member asks, how much do I know, you know, on the 'knowledge-o-meter', I would say, you know, quite a lot in terms of why the amendments are going to be made to reconstruction, what the best possible configuration is for sightlines for staff and, included in that, the best possible flow for patients and for staff that are working in very challenging circumstances. So, you know, we know that the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority in May of 2010 talked about the redevelopment of the HSC emergency room. I think the member said $2 million.

HSC at that time announced that they would move forward with a $4-million renovation. So there's a lot of work that's under way not just at HSC connected to the issue concerning the death of Mr. Sinclair but at other emergency rooms, and we know that when the inquest comes to a conclusion that there will likely be additional recommendations, and we'll take those very seriously. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate whether there was a cutback on the original expansion plan in order to save money? Ms. Oswald: I'm sorry. Can the member repeat that? I just couldn't hear. Mrs.

Driedger: Can the minister indicate, was there a cutback on the original expansion plan in order to save money? Ms. Oswald: Yes, as I indicated to the member earlier, I will have to go back and look at what the original plan was, the original estimate versus the final decision for construction, and I would also have to ask questions about the nature of why those amendments to proposed original plan were made. I don't know the answer. I wasn't there then. But this does come in some contrast to the member who has, on lo, these many occasions, said we're spending too much money on health capital, bricks and mortar.

So it's a bit of a departure in the tone of question. You know, I welcome variety. But, again, I will say it–[interjection] Now the member seems to be sensitive to the fact that I've made reference, but we do have quotes, you know, from her saying, why are we spending this money on bricks and mortar. But, again, I will commit to the member to seek out some thoughts about what the original plan for the emergency room was, what the final construction was and the reasons for amendments in that plan. Mrs.

Driedger: Madam Chairperson, I think the minister just torqued her answer quite a bit more than what the original question had ever been. When the question had been asked a number of years ago, it was why was everything in terms of health capital done on debt and why wasn't there more cash spent, as it was in the '90s for CancerCare. There were a number of mental health projects that had been done in that period of time, and they weren't done on debt. And, under the NDP, all health capital has been debt financed. That was the question.

So–Madam Chair, and I've also been on record saying we do need substantial health capital development, renovations because a lot of our health infrastructure is old. So it'

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-5-55
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 5th hansardpdf 55.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	1020f7ef65d0b1a3e055fe545529f1335fe43c2f

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