IIi' Volume XLI Tu esd ay Province of Newfoundland FORTY- FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Second Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard} Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush [Preliminary Transcript] · Number 3 13 March 1990

The House met at 2:00 p.m. MR. SPEAKER (Lush): Order, please! Statements by Ministers MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader. the Government House MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of Premier Wells, I am announcing today the following changes in the Executive of the Public Service of the Province. Mr. Howard Noseworthy wi 11 be retiring as Deputy Minister of Employment and Labour Relations, effective March 28. Mr. Noseworthy has faithfully served the public of this Province for some 26 years, principally in the area of labour relations.

As he leaves the Public Service for a well earned retirement, on behalf of Government and the people of the Province, I would like to wish him and his family health and happiness and every success in the future. Mr. Clarence Randell, Deputy Minister of Works, Services and Transportation will be seconded to the position of Deputy Minister of Employment and Labour Relations for a six month period, effective March 20th. Mr. Randell has considerable experience in public administration in the Province.

In this new assignment he has been asked to carry out a full review of the existing organizational structure and staffing in the Department and effect changes aimed at improving program delivery and efficiency where Ll March 13, 1990 Vol XLI appropriate. Mr. Bruce Peckford, Assistant Deputy Minister of the Department of Works, Services and Transportation will be appointed to the position of Acting Deputy Minister of that Department during the period of Mr. Randell's secondment. Mr.

Robert Langdon, Assistant Deputy Minister, Occupational Health and Safety will be leaving that position to assume new responsibilities as Special Advisor for Occupational Health and Safety matters within Government, operating from the Department of Works, Services and Transportation. In this position Mr. Langdon will report to Mr. Bruce Peckford, Acting Deputy Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. A further appointment announcement of a new on the Assistant Deputy Minister of Occupational Health and Safety in the Department of Employment and Labour Relations will be made shortly. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Leader. MR. SIMMS: the Opposition House Mr. Speaker, just a few brief comments on this announcement today. First of all Mr. Noseworthy, who many of us here know personally, has served the Province well for 26 years, I guess it has been, and in some very difficult times, I might add. We, along with the Government, wish him and his family well in his future endeavors. With respect to Mr. Randell I presume this is a sign or a signal that the Government No. 3 Rl

~ecognizes the~e a~e some p~oblems over in the Depa~tment of Employment and Labour Relations. The individual seconded, Mr. Randell, is a very capable pe~son, without doubt, without a question, and I hope he is able to light a fire under the Minister, and perhaps we might get an occasion from time to time to hear ft"om the Minister state of in the House as to the labour relations in the Province and other matters under her jurisdiction. I note it is only a secondment for six months so I trust we can expect some reports ft"om the Minister periodically.

With t"espect to Bruce Peckford being appointed as the Acting Deputy Minister I have to say this: this appointment has been made by the same crowd who when they were in opposition, when Mr. Peckford was moved from The Workers' Compensation Board, you will recall, to Assistant Deputy Minister in Tt"easury Boa~d when I happened to be the Minister, this same crowd howled and hollered, patronage. MR. BAKER: That is not tt"ue. MR. RIDEOUT: You have no memot"y at all, not a short memot"y. MR. SIMMS: Mt".

Speaker, we said at that time that the appointment was made on merit and I see now, and I believe now, that the Gove~nment has finally recognized that indeed Mt". Peckfo~d does possess great qualities and that the appointment is made on merit, so the Government is finally admitting that they were wrong when they were in Opposition as they have been on so many other occasions. With respect to Mt".

Langdon, he L2 Ma~ch 13, 1990 Vol XLI was my next-door neighbour in G~and Falls, Bob Langdon, so I know him well, and I also know that he too has made a considerable contribution, I believe, to the Occupational Health and Safety issues of the Pt"ovince - as the Member for St. John's South (Mt". Murphy) would know - he too is a capable person. I am not quite so certain as to the position being moved to the Department of Wo~ks, Services and Transportation. I am not so sure that that is a wise decision, but we will have to wait and see what transpires.

Finally, with respect to the appointment of a new Assistant Deputy Minister of Occupational Health and Safety, we on this side look forward to the appointment. I hope the appointment is for someone who has earned his, or her, spurs in the Public Service in· particular. That is what I would like to see as opposed to another Beaton Tulk appointment. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I would like to remind hon. Members that I want order before I go to the next itP.m of business so that the person who is to speak will be heard. Oral Questions MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank . MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . No. 3 R2

t!t My question is to the Ministet" of Fishet"ies. As a follow-up to questioning yestet"day, could the Ministet" confil"m fot" the House the conditions ~f funding to Fishet"y Pt"oducts Intet"national of $11.5 million. Was it a condition of funding to FPI that the employment levels at Gt"and Bank, Gaultois, and Tt"epassey must t"emain the same fot" 1990 and 1991, as it was at the time of the announcement? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Ministet" of Fishet"ies. MR. W. CARTER: Mt". Speaket", I can only tell the hon.

Membet" what I told him yestet"day, that I am taking the mattet" undet" advisement, I am having it checked out. But I would like to say this: In the final analysis, Mt". Speaket", an audit will be cat"t"ied out to detet"mine exactly how many people wet"e employed and at what cost to Govet"nment. If it is found that thet"e wet"e less people employed, and we hope thet"e will not be, then, of caut"se, they will be paid, compensated, at" t"eimbut"sed fat" the numbet" of people who at"e actually on the payt"oll. But we at"e hoping, Mt". Speaket", that will not happen.

I pt"omised the House I would bt"ing back a t"epot"t, and I will keep my pt"omise. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Membet" fat" Gt"and Bank. MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you again, Mt". Speaket". I would just like to say to the Ministet" that the employees of those tht"ee fish plants cet"tainly will not take as much comfot"t ft"om what the Ministet" said publicly last evening and what he just said in the House today, because they L3 Mat"ch 13, 1990 Vol XLI thought when the Pt"emiet" made his announcement and when Mt".

Young made his, that they could at least look fot"Wat"d to twenty weeks work in the yeat" 1990 and twenty weeks WOt"k in 1991. Let me fut"ther ask the Ministet" this, Mr. Speaket". We have heard publicly ovet" the last numbet" of hout"s that the Union at the NatSea Southside Plant has agt"eed in pl"inciple to accept the shrimp proposal as offered by National Sea. Will any of the Provincial Government's $3 million offer to NatSea be used by the Company to convet"t to a sht"imp operation? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Ministet" of Fishet"ies . MR. W. CARTER: Mt". Speaket", the answer to that of cout"se is, no. MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Membet" fat" Gt"and Bank . MR. MATTHEWS: Mt". Speaket", when the Minister l"ises again could he tell us what portion, if any, of the $3 million Provincial Govet"nment offer will be utilized by NatSea and what for? In continuing, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask the Ministet", has he met with the officials of National Sea Pt"oducts to try and f lnd a solution fot" the employees on the Southside by suggesting that there be a mixed opet"ation of sht"imp and gt"oundfish, as thet"e are some four or five million pounds of inshore fish that C'ight now f ishet"men at"e looking to f lnd a mat"ket fat"? Because if National Sea t"efuses to buy that fish, then the extended notice pet"iod fat" the employees until August would, in essence, be ineffective, because they will not have fish to pLocess No. 3 R3

for the summer months. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, with respect to the first part of the hon. Member's question, the amount of compensation that will be made available to NatSea will involve, roughly, a sixteen week extension of their termination of employment. It was intended initially that that plant would close on March 5th, and then NatSea agreed to extend that lay off notice an additional four weeks, which would bring them into April 5th, I believe it is - yes.

The Province will then undertake to compensate the company for the cost of the payroll up to an amount of $3 million, from April 5th to August 5th. With respect to the latter part of his question, we are meeting, not constantly, I suppose, but certainly quite frequently with the owners of NatSea, trying to find ways and means of helping to alleviate the problems that will be caused by virtue of the plant closing, and hopefully to find ways and means of absorbing that part of the work force that will be displaced by virtue of the plant converting from a groundfish to a shrimp processing operation. MR.

WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for Humber Valley. MR. WOODFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had a question for the Minister of Energy, but, in his absence, I L4 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI will probably direct it to the Minister responsible for Treasury Board.

Based on the fact that in last spring's Budget the PDD subsidy was eliminated from Newfoundland Hydro at a total cost of approximately $30 million over three years, and a 1 per cent charge was applied on the guarantees of any bonds issued by Newfoundland Hydro and this 1 per cent would mean approximately another $9 million to $10 million in cost to Newfoundland Hydro, totalling approximately $40 million, and based on the fact that Newfoundland Light and Power was awarded a price increase by the PU Board, effective February 1st, of approximately 4 per cent, could the Minister tell the House why Newfoundland Hydro could increase its rates without going to the PU Board?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. The President of Treasury Board. MR. W. CARTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not knowledgeable in that aspect, as to whether Hydro has, in fact, increased its rates without going to the PU Board. My understanding is that Hydro cannot increase its rates until it has had the approval of the Public Utilities Board. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for Humber Valley. MR. WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker, for the last sixteen days of February, last month, anybody in those districts of the Province which come under been Newfoundland Hydro have charged the increase. The reason I do not know.

I thought Lhey No. 3 R4

might have to go to the PUB, which was the understanding I got earlier this year when we questioned those people on it. But they have been charged an increase of approximately 4 per cent to 4.5 per cent. Having said that, based on the infoLmation as of late by Newfoundland Hydro, when they said publicly they would have to go for approximately an 8 per cent increase over the next few months, of which approximately 4. 5 per cent would be passed along to the consumer, could the Minister tell the House whether or not this 4. 5 per cent would be applicable for each of the next four to five years? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board. MR. BAKER: I will certainly check into the situation and advise the han. Member as soon as I can get an answer. AN HON. MEMBER: We hope not. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education (Dr. P. Warren). Let me say to the Minister that pdor to and dudng the election campaign the Premier and Members of his caucus pLomised that if they became the Government they would abolish the school tax. I am of the understanding now, Mr.

Speaker, that people, LS March 13, 1990 Vol XLI believing the Premier would stick to his word, are refusing to pay school taxes. Could the Minister confirm whetheL or not there has been a decr'ease in the per'centage of people paying school taxes in this Pr'ovince in the past year'? DR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker'. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister' of Education. DR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, ther'e is some misinfor'mation in the hon. Member''s question. The Premier and the Government of today, the Party, did not pr'omise to abolish the school tax. MR. TOBIN: You should have been in the House.

If you were not her'e, how do you know? DR. WARREN: During the campaign promised, Mr. Speaker, review the system with either' abolishing the the Par'ty to totally a view to system Or" refor'ming it, and that process has been ongoing. With respect to the second par't of the hon. Member''s question, Mr'. Speaker, yes, there wer'P- some pr'oblems with collections . I expressed some concern in the public about these collections ear'ly in the year. I am pleased to say that the r'eturns are incr'easing, that people are paying.

I have confir'med that Lhe tax will r"emain in place this year and there will be no change in the tax dur'ing 1990. People are now acknowledging their responsibility, and I thank the public for paying the taxes so that education can benefit from the funds that are made available. No. 3 RS

MR. SPEAKER: tax? The hon. the Member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Let me say to the Minister, for all of us who are in the House who sat on that side at that time, remember the Opposition who were over here saying, when we get in Government it will change immediately? Mr. Speaker, despite that, the Minister has now confirmed that there has been a decrease in the percentage of people who are paying school tax as a result of the promise made by the Premier.

Could the Minister tell us now how many Newfoundlanders have been locked up in the past year, indeed jailed, placed behind bars as a result of believing the Premier and not paying their school tax? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. DR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education does not have any more details concerning that. I read in the paper an account of a development in certain parts of the Province, but the Minister of Education accepts that. With any tax there are enforcements available, and the courts were used in a case. That is all I know about the incident, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPRAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, let me direct a question to the Minister of Justice. Could he advise the House how many people have been jailed, since they became the Government, for not paying school L6 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, in reply to the hon. Member's question the only instance I know of, and that has been reported through the news media, is someone in Port aux Basques, if my memory serves me correctly. Other than that, I know of no other instance. AN HON. MEMBER: There were two. Cove.

One in Eddies MR. DICKS: Eddies Cove there was one instance that I have learned about through the media. MR. SP EAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East. MS DUFF: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct Lhis question to the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. I see the Minister of Health perking right up there. AN HON. MEMBER: He perked right up, yes. MS DUFF: I am waiting until next week.

In view of the fact that l think the most serious criticisms at Lhe amalgamation hearings has been the lack of financial information that was available to municipalities on which to base submissions, and it is certainly widely understood by the municipalities in view of remarks that have been made by both the Minister and the Premier No. 3 R6

0!. in this House that we can anticipate changes in the current grant and debt financing structures, can the Minister confirm that the Government has commissioned a consultant report dealing with these issues, and that, in fact, this report has already been completed and submitted to the Department of Provincial and Municipal Affairs? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, yes, I can te 11 the hon. Member we have commissioned such a report, and the results on the first draft, if you like, have been submitted to me.

We have now asked the consultants to do some more work for us. The consulting firm, incidentally, is working with our own staff, it is a joint effort. Four or five of our own staff are faced off against the responsibility of reviewing the existing grant structures, all of the four or five main areas where we assist the municipalities, and they have been working over the last couple of months doing that.

As I said, the first draft is in to me and, as a result of that, where they used only 20 communities, I believe it was, as a sample, I have asked them now, in light of the work they have done, to complete the project and, in fact, do all the communities in the Province, so that we will have a profile and we will know where we are coming from with the possible implementation of a new grants procedure and how it might affect if we did proceed - because there are several variations presented - how it would look on all the communities in the Province, not L7 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI just the sample they started with .

MS DUFF: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Member for St. John's East. MS DUFF: In view of the importance of this information to the municipalities, could the Minister inform the House as to the time fL·ame we are dealing with here when the final information will be available? And would he let the House know whether or not these recommendations will be dealt with on a priority basis, and any changes in the financing arrangements between municipalities and the Province be made available to the municipalities prior to the amalgamation decisions?

Also, would the Minister please let us know if the municipal/provincial financing arrangements will, in fact, be used as a lever to encourage the final decisions on amalgamation? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, it is a very good question. In fact, we are reviewing that very question in the Department right now. I think it very likely that I will recommend to Government a new grants procedure before we finalize the amalgamation proceedings. MS DUFF: I asked you - MR. DOYLE: How come the municipalities do nol No. 3 R7

know about it now, after the hearings? MR. GULLAGE: I think it would be unfair not to do so, especially if the recommendations are such that it would benefit the communities, and the grants procedure would be more useful to the Government and to the municipalities if put in place instead of what we have in place right now. We are just about finished the hearings process, with only about three weeks to go for all the hearings to be complete.

The commissioners then have to work on the remainder of the feasibility process - the hearings are only one part - and I have said to them that they have the grants recommendations to use when they are completing their work, and finally in completing the recommendation to me and, ultimately, to the Government. At that time, we will certainly be talking to the municipalities, as well. There will be no hidden agenda. We are not quite ready as yet, because I have not reached the point where I am ready to make a recommendation to Government.

But once we have a recommendation to Government and we know where we are going with the grants procedure, certainly we will !!lake sure the municipalities are involved. MS DUFF: Mr. Speaker, another supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for St. John's East. MS DUFF: I still do not have any clear idea of the time frame we are dealing with here, and we are getting up L8 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI to the point when the next round of elections will take place.

I would like to ask the Minister if in fact Govern~ent is prepared to consider interim financial support packages to municipalities in gt"oupings whet"e thet"e at"e vet"y clear tax inequities OI." servicing inequities. I think the bottom line question is, when will Govet"nment lay its financial cards on the table? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister' of Municipal and PI."ovincial Affair's. MR. GULLAGE: Again, a ver:y common question and a good question, MI.". Speaker'.

I have been asked it many, many times, and I have said I."epeatedly that it is vet"y difficult fat" Govet"nment to I."eact and to say up ft"ont, when we at"e at the hearing stage, what the financial implications at"e going to be and what Govet"nment is pt"epat"ed to do fat" any gt"oup of municipalities. We have to go tht"ough the hcat"ings and feasibility pt"ocess, see what the commissioner"s have to say and what they have to I."ecommend. Thet"e is no question jn my mind we will have recommendations which will show a need fat" water and sewer' and roads and other infrastructure.

Government has to react to that and decide what the financial implications are going to be and what it will do with any given group of communities. It is too early to say, Mr. Speaker, but I can say that we are trying to reach a decision as quickly as possible within the Department as to what we would recommend to Government as fat" as the grant structure is concerned. As soon as I have that recommendation, I will be making the recommendation to Government, and, from there, we No. 3 R8

will be talking to the municipalities. MR. R. AYLWARD: Mt". Speaket". · MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Membet" fat" Kilbride. MR. R. AYLWARD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Works, Set"vices and Tt"ansportation. Mr. Speaker, would the han. Minister confit"ffi to this House that his Department is t"eviewing plans to pt"ivatize most of the maintenance and snow clearing functions of the Depat"tment of Tt"ansportation? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Works, Set"vices and Tt"ansportation. MR. GILBERT: Not that I know of, Mr. Speaker. AN HON.

MEMBER: Make no wonder Clarence Randell is getting out. MR. MATTHEWS: I would say Clarence could not take it anymore, and that is why he is going with Patt. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member fat" Kilbt"ide. MR. R. AYLWARD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mt". Speaker, when I pt"oduced the pamphlet on the point system last year, the han. Minister did not know when his point system was being put in place, so I am not SULPt"ised at that answet". L9 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI Would the hon.

Minister confirm that his Department is planning to lay off, or fire, thirteen secut"ity guards: four at Hat"vey Road, one in Centt"al Newfoundland, two on the West Coast of the Pt"ovince, and one at each annex of Confedet"ation Building, and, most importantly, all security at the Colonial Building, which will interfere with research that is going on there in the nighttime? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Not that I know for. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transpot"lation. MR. GILBERT: Thank you. As I undet"s tand it, Mr.

Speaket", in last year's Budget thet"e was a new security program introduced and it is under review. With t"egard to the employment implications, I do not have any figures and I do not know what they will be eventually. However, we at"e reviewing the secut"ity arrangement in all buildings, and I will certainly be only too happy to get all the information fat" the hon. Member, once it has all been finalized, and l will table it in the House for him. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for Kilbride. MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaket", I would just ;:~.sk the Minister one mot"e question.

He obviously does not seem to know what his Depat"tment is doing. He never has had a very good handle on it. Would the informed of hon. the Minister fact that be Lhe Union representing these people No. 3 R9

has already received notice of thirteen layoffs? MR. TOBIN: Shall I tel i him what page it is on? MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker, I do not think that is worthy of an answer. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! For the benefit of Hansard, that was the hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. The hon. the Member for Harbour Main. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations.

Would the Minister inform the House, and can the Minister confirm, that the Department of Employment and Labour Relations is about to transfer responsibility for electrical inspections, which is clearly a Government responsibility, onto the backs of the municipalities? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations. MS COWAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know where the gentleman is doing his research, but he is certainly ill-informed. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main. MR.

DOYLE: Can the Minister confirm, then, LlO March 13, 1990 Vol XLI that her Department is about to recommend to Government that a central agency be established for electrical inspection that will have as its mandate complete cost recovery, and that these inspections will no longer be given for the benefit of the consumer free of charge? Is there going to be cost recovery on it? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations. MS COWAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. He is still playing these foolish games that he played in the last sitting of the House.

If anything like that would be coming from my Department he would hear about it under the correct process, not by asking me a question in Quest ion Period. AN HON. MEMBER: Oh? Then what is the purpose of Question Period? MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East Extern. MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Environment and Lands.

As all of us hunters know, for a . number of years the Government has encouraged a party licence application, where the greatest number of applicants would have the opportunity to use the licences that are in the system. Now this is not the case, it has been changed this year. I ask the Minister, has he considered the No. 3 RlO

L;.;. ramifications of such a move? MR. SPEAKER: The han. . the Minister of Environment and Lands. MR. KELLAND: Of course, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for St. John's East Extern. MR. TOBIN: What arrogance! MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I have to say that is arrogant. There are a lot of hunters out there. In fact, I think there are about 35,000 of us who applied for licences last year, plus our rights. We put money into the economy, and I expected a better answer than that. A supplementary. Where did the pressure come from for this change in policy? MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Environment and Lands. MR. KELLAND: Let us set the record straight, Mr. Speaker. The han. Member asked me if I considered the ramifications and I answered quite properly, yes, I did, to the first question. He did not ask anything else. Where did the pressure come from? You would · have to define pressure, Mr. Speaker. I do not know what he is talking about when he is talking about pressure. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for St. John's East Extern. MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, this is shocking. Lll March 13, 1990 Vol XLI Shocking!

My final supplementary: Would the Minister then consider reverting back to the pro-party applications? One, because it gives Newfoundlanders a much greater opportunity to hunt, and secondly, there is a more dangerous involvement when hunters enter our wilds alone. Would the Minister take the bull by the horns and give Newfoundlanders and Labradorians back their rights, and change the licencing process to what it was originally? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Environment and Lands. MR. KELLAND: Mr. Speaker, I can take the bull by the horns for male only licences.

Having said that, I should, in seriousness, respond to the han. Member, Mr. Speaker. We would consider any changes that would be of benefit to the hunters of Newfoundland, and Labrador, which you left out of your question, by the way. The changes that took place this year were done on the basis of good management and, in fact, to allow more people to access quite a big resource that we have in this Province, a very valuable resource. But, I am open to suggestion. If that is not the best method, Mr. Speaker, I assure the han. Member, and hon.

Members, that I would consider any suggestion that would benefit and improve the circumstances of hunters and the management of the resource. I am certainly open to suggestions. Any time the Member has a free moment and would like to come over and see me and chat about it, I would be more than happy to accommodate him, Mr. Speaker. No. 3 Rll

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for Fogo . MR. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minster of Works, Services and Transportation. The Minister is now aware that the ferry service to Fogo Island and Change Islands has been disrupted because of a breakdown in one of the Provincial ferries. This has resulted in all kinds of scheduling problems. Can the Minister now tell this House and the people of Fogo Island and Change Islands when they will each have a regular dedicated ferry run to service these Islands? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR.

GILBERT: I would assume, Mr . Speaker, when the other ferry is repaired. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for Fogo. MR. WINSOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . The Minister does not have very long answers today. In light of his answer, though, will he now instruct his officials to increase the number of scheduled runs a day from two to three, so that they can better service and accommodate the people of both Change Islands and Fogo Island? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Wo~ks, Services and Transportation . MR.

GI LBERT: Mr. been Speaker, my officials have in contact with the ferry commissions on Change Islands. the situation, both Fogo and They explained advising them that Ll2 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI we will try and solve the pL·oblem when the vessel is ~epai~ed and goes back to normal service. At the time, we a~e doing the best we can. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member fa~ Fogo. MR. WINSOR: A final supplementary, and it still pertains to the fer~y .

Since the Minister has al~eady announced a $25 million ferry to be constructed for that ~un, could he now inform the House of the expected date of completion for this new ferry? MR. SPEAK ER: The han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: I am glad the Member recognizes he is getting a new ferry down there and we will be able to provide good service.

In the meantime, we are providing work for a couple of hundred people in Ma~ystown, ove~ the next couple of years. (Inaudible) equally p~oud that he is representing a Oist~ict which is not forgotten by this Gove~nment, and we are looking after it. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader. MR. SIMMS: the Opposition House Mr. Speaker, I remind the hon. the Minister of Transportation that he is merely car~ying out a commitment we announced in the election . MR. WINSOR: No. 3 R12

The contract was there, ready for him to sign. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations, and it is a follow-up to my question yesterday, in the House, with respect to the serious situation that exists out at the Grand Falls mill. I will not go into all the details; everybody is aware of what is transpiring. Yesterday, I asked the Minister if she would not consider personally getting herself involved and making a phone call to the two parties to see if she could not offer some way of t"esolving this very serious situation. She said, no.

I asked her if she would reconsider it, basically. Does she have anything new to report today? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations. MS COWAN: I say the same thing I said yesterday. I will not repeat it; it is reported in Hansard. I might add that the hon. gentleman for Grand Falls knows that I would be acting totally irresponsibly as a Minister if I responded in any other way, or behaved in any other way. MR. SPEAKER: The hon . Leader. MR. SIMMS : the Opposition House Mr.

Speaker, is the Minister aware that what exists out there now is a bit of a power play, in that the company is saying publicly - I am asking the Minister if she is aware of this - 'We will not talk to the union until the picket L13 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI lines come down.' Whilst the Union is saying - the Minister of Forestry (Mr. Flight) is aware of this - 'We will not take the picket lines down until the company talks to us.

I am asking the Minister point blank, directly, will she call the company and ask them if they will call the union, communicate with the union and tell them, yes, we will speak to you if you take the picket lines down. I think that is all that is required. I have a feeling that if she took that kind of personal initiative, she might resolve a potentially explosive situation. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations . MS COWAN: I would feel much more comfortable, Mr.

Speaker, if the hon. gentleman for Grand Falls was taking a more responsible attitude towards this unrest in his particular District and was not trying to use it for political gain. MR. RIDEOUT: Go resign. Resign, if you canno l take the responsibility. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. Leader. MR. SIMMS: the Opposition House Mr. Speaker, that scares me to no end, that this MinistP-r would take that kind of an attitude. She knows full well that. I spoke to her privately, outside the House yesterday, and I expressed my concern on this matter.

So to accuse me of playing politics with it is nothing short of we 11 I No. 3 Rl3

p~obably cannot use the word, so I will not use it. The Minister is not ca~~ying out her responsibilities, and it is clear she is t~ying to divest herself of any responsibility. I have a supplementary question on the same kind of topic to the President of Treasury Board, the Government House Leader. The Premier met with a delegation from that mill two months ago, January 17, and I believe it was clear that the workers at that time wanted a firm, written commitment f~om the company about their specific plans, the long term viability. · That was what was discussed at that meeting, the futu~e of the mill.

Can the Government House Leader advise the House and advise the wo~kers when the Premier will be fulfilling a commitment he made at that meeting, which was to convene a tripartite meeting of union representatives, company representatives and Government representatives, to discuss the future of that mill? I believe the Union has asked that the meeting be held sometime after February 23, when the question of severance is resolved? Is the Gove~nment House Leade~ able to tell me when that meeting will be called? - or the Minister of Forest~y, it does not matter? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Ministe~ of Forest~y. MR.

FLIGHT: Mr. Speake~, I am delighted to inform the han. Member when the meeting will be held. The meeting will be held as soon as it is convenient for the union. There was a commitment made to the union, I will tell the hon. Member, that after the ag~eement was put in place, after the L14 Ma~ch 13, 1990 Vol XLI redundancy package was put in place, and it was indicated by the Union that it would not be convenient to have the meeting until the last week in February - well, the last week in February or the fi~st week in March. It is my responsibility to convene that particular meeting, and l will tell the hon.

Member the meeting will be convened. The Union, M~. Speaker, is now deciding on when is an app~opriate and convenient time to meet with the company. MR. SIMMS: (Inaudible). MR. FLIGHT: I am telling the hon. Member exactly what the situation is with regards to the meeting that is to be held between the company, the union and the Ministerial Committee. And might I further say, Mr.

Speaker, while I am up, just in case there might be a misunderstanding here, the pu~pose of that meeting is not in any way intended to affect the agreement or anything which is going on out there now, it is to give the union a chance to indicate to the company that they do not be 1 ieve that the company has made a long~term commitment, to look at the $100 million the company has committed. That is the purpose of the meeting, and, as such, there is no real rush for the meeting. Mr. Speaker, I would hope that puts the Member's mind at. ease.

The meeting has been organized, and it will be held when it is convenient for the three parties concerned. MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired . No. 3 Rl4

I jus,t want to make a comment on Question Period today. I want to remind hon. Members that it serves no purpose when a Minister is answering a question to have other questions going back and forth. It just disrupts and destroys the effectiveness of Question Period. There are a couple of Members who consistently think that they must comment and insert loud utterances, if you will, whenever anything is being done in the House. I want to inform hon. Members, that the Chair is going to be observing that, because it does nothing to enhance the debate or enhance the image of the House. 0 0 0 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The point was just demonstrated fairly well. The Chair had just taken its place when some hon. Members started talking, and I have not called the order of business. Order, please! MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. I just want to make sure I understand clearly your Honour's ruling here. Surely Your Honour is not suggesting that there cannot be any conversation, or talk, or banter back and forth. Because that is all these hon. Members were doing, as I understand it. MR. SPEAKER: Not at all.

LlS March 13, 1990 Vol XLI It is just that when the Chair is going on to the next item of business the Chair would like to be extended the courtesy so that hon. Members can hear the next order of business is. MR. SIMMS: The practice is that you carry on . Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker : At this time, I would like present the Annual Report of C.A.Pippy Park Commission for year 1988-1989. DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: to the .. the The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, I wish to present Lhe Report of the Department of Finance for the year 1988-1989. This report contains a description of the activities in the Department of Finance during the past year. MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: No. 3 Rl5

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time I would like to table the Report of the exceptions to The Public Tendering Act for the months of December and January, while the House was closed. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Eagle River. MR. DUMARESQUE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure, today, to table the Report of the Elections and Privileges Committee.

Last December, this Committee was given a mandate to report to this House on two things: 1) Whether the broadcasting of the House of Assembly proceedings would be made this Session and, also, to determine the question of televising the new House of Assembly, expected this fall. Today, I am very pleased that we are presenting a unanimous report which outlines five specific recommendations affecting this particular Session of the House. If I may, Mr.

Speaker, I would just like to say thanks to the Committee Members, from Port au Port, Pleasantville, Bonavista South and Ferryland, for their hard work and indulgence in this effort. I would also like to say that I believe it is a very historic day, because what we are doing today is presenting to this House the thrust for openness and accountability of Members of this House of Assembly to the people of today.

I would just like to say also that we were working under two particular principles, one, that politicians have to become more accountable to the electorate, and Ll6 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI that this is a way to do so; two, the old adage that lhe best electorate is the most educated electorate. Mr.

Speaker, these were two things that propelled our discussions and today we are very pleased to present and recommend, first of all, that full audio transmission of the House of Assembly proceedings be granted to the Press Gallery through the House of Assembly facilities; that television coverage of the Throne Speech and the Budget be granted; that the newspapers and other print journalists be permitted to take still pictures of proceedings throughout lhe Session under guidelines established by the House; and that no television cameras be permitted in the Chamber during this Session except as outlined in rec~mmendation two, and pending completion of the Committee's final report.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, the Elections and Privileges Committee of the House of Assembly should be given the mandate to review and report upon the broadcasting of the House of Assembly and to deal with complaints from Members arising from such broadcasting. It is my Speaker, to hon. Members. pleasure today, table this for SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Petitions MR. WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Mr. all The hon. the Memb~r for Humber Valley. No. 3 R16

MR. WOODFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From the outset, Mr. Speaker, I did not realize until about five minutes before the House was to open that the petition I had to present was a copy and not the original. The group involved had sent me in a copy instead of the original and as you were in a meeting before the House began, I did not get a chance to discuss it with you. I would, therefore, like to make that clear before I begin to present it and check to make sure it is okay with the Speaker whether I should go ahead with it or not. MR. SPEAKER: Could the hon. Member just give me one moment? Order, please!

In this respect, and for future reference in the House, I think it is best if the hon. Member just got the approva_l of the House to present the petition. Is approval granted? The hon. Leader. the Government House MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we have stated before in this House, the period for petitions is not going to be held up by technicalities and all that kind of thing. If the intent of the petition was for the hon. Member to present the petition to the House of Assembly, whether it is a copy or an original, I would be willing to accept it, if that is indeed the intent of that petition. MR.

SPEAKER: L17 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI The hon. the Member for Humber Valley. MR. WOODFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to thank hon. Members for their approval. It was, I guess, an honest mistake. They sent in the copy and not the original, not realizing that we required the original. The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, I would like to just read it: We the employees of the Department of Works, Services and Transportation, Deer Lake, are submitting this petition to protest the layoff of the two carpenters in the Deer Lake unit.

We see this layoff as the phasing out of the Carpenter Shop in Deer Lake. We would like to know why this is happening only in the Deer Lake area and not province-wide. Now, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by sixty-eight employees of the Works, Services and Transportation Department in Deer Lake and the surrounding areas. It is rather ironic, Mr.

Speaker, that earlier my colleague representing the District of Kilbride brought up the Gubject of the possibility of the privatization of the maintenance part of Transportation and the ice and snow removal, that was the two mentioned if I am not mistaken, in other instance some employees in the Department of Public Works, namely some maintenance and security people. I know it is not now, I do not know if it will be, after Thur-sday's Budget, the path or the r-oad that this Depar-tment and this Government will take as pertaining to the Depar-tment of Transportation in this Province. No. 3 Rl7

In this case, speaking particularly to this petition, the Carpenter Shop in Deer Lake, as people know, I am sure the Minister and probably some others, as well, know, that that is a new building put there some years ago by the Provincial Government. It is one of the most modern Department of Transportation depots in Eastern Canada. It has pretty well every convenience that you could attribute to any garage or such facility in the Province or, like I said before, in Eastern Canada. It has a body shop, paint shop; pretty well everything is in it, including a carpenter shop.

Now, I understand, in the carpenter shop there are two employees who got their notice. One has been there for some 22 years and the other for 3. AN HON. MEMBER: How long, twenty-two? MR. WOODFORD: Twenty-two years. They got their notice, . I do not know if it is this Friday or the next, to be laid off. It is evident that the shop, as of today, I believe, is filled with cement, there are bags of cement put in there. So it is obvious that there must be some downgrading in the service there - they are the only two carpenters - a complete withdrawal of services with regard to carpentry work in that depot.

Now I do not have to explain to the Minister or any other han. Member in this House the importance of this. Two jobs, some may think, 'Well, that is not much. ' It is a lot. We cannot afford the luxury this day and age, and more specifically today, the way things are going in this Province, to lay off anybody, especially when you have to have Ll8 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI the work done anyway. And it is just two employees. If you were talking about a department that was overloaded, twenty or twenty-five, and you say it will take 20 to do the job, then so be it, maybe it would be understandable.

In this case, the information provided me, and I repeat, the information provided me, is that the two carpenters will be laid off. That depot in Deer Lake comprises the whole of the Northern Peninsula, over 300 miles of coastline, all the Labrador area, west to Port aux Basques, and I believe, east lo Grand Falls, if I am not mistaken. Now that is a fairly big area and a fairly big chunk of the Province for any highways depot and the employees in it to be responsible for. The people employed there are very competent people.

That is evident, I would say, from the amount of time put in by this individual, a total of twenty- two years. It was rather: sudden. What they are afraid of now, is not only the two jobs but, I suppose, the uncertainty of what would happen in the near: future with regard to the rest of the employees. MR. SPEAKER: I inform the han. gentleman that his time is up. MR. WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker:, I would just like to clue up. The Minister, in his response, although he may not be congnizant of what is going on there right now, would probably be able to fill me in on some of the questions that I have already asked.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister: of Works, No. 3 Rl8

Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: Mr . Speaker, · I hear the petition that the han. Member has presented in understanding that any tlme there are any jobs lost, whether it be one or five or ten, there is a certain degree of suffering involved, and nobody wants to be involved in it. However, in the Department of Works, Services and Transportation there are somewhere in the vicinity of 2,000 full-time employees, and I guess the employees you are talking about are covered by a collective agreement.

With the streamlining of the Department, bringing the Department of Public Works and the Department of Transportation and various other Government services into one, there are no doubt going to be some employees affected, as already has been shown at the head office level. But , as to the questions, I will certainly check into it. I will have my officials contact the employees concerned to talk about the concerns that they have and to advise them why the action has been taken, and I will acquaint myself as to why the action was taken.

If it is not justified, I will certainly see that justice is done, but if it is justified and it is a normal agreement covered under a union agreement in a collective bargaining situation, and because of the downsizing of the Department and the streamlining, I can assure the hon . Member that there is not much I can do in a situation like this. If there is some injustice being done, I will certainly look into it and I will get an answer back to the hon. gentleman. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride . Ll9 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI MR. R. AYLWARD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, this petition we have here, in my eleven years in the House of Assembly I cannot remember a group of employees of a Department presenting a petition to the Opposition to have it presented against the Minister in this House. Mr. Speaker, the significance of this petition shows that people in the Department, workers in the Department of Transportation are extremely concerned , and this petition shows me that this is proof of privatization of the Department of Works, Services and Transportation.

Today we had an example of some thirteen security jobs being dropped throughout this Province, and those jobs eventually wi 11 be either electronic or private . To maintain buildings in this Province, a building like the Colonial Building, in St. John's, has to have security people, or everyone who is going to do research in that building during the night, and there are many people, particularly people from the university, will have to be given keys to the building, and I do not think that is going to happen.

This is another indication that there are discussions going on in the Department, and in Government, about privatizing Government services, in particular services that are to be carried out by the Department of Works, Services and Transportation. Mr. Speaker, if these jobs could be done cheaper privately, they would have been done long ago. I do not hear of any tax reduct ions to the people of Newfoundl and while consideration of No. 3 Rl9

privatization is going on. I say it is a ploy by the Liberal Government to create cushy contracts for their supporters and the people who have been paying the $55,000 for the past five years to the Premier. will now have some these contractors. I guess we paybacks to Orders of the Day MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I would like to do Motions 6 to 21, inclusive. MR. SPEAKER: What is the wish of the House? Shall we take them all? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. SPEAKER: Okay.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance to introduce a Bill, "An Act Respecting A Pension Plan For Certain Employees In The Province," carried. (Bill No. 14). On motion, Bill No. 14 read a first time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow. Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to introduce · the following Bills: A Bill, "An Act To Amend The Assessment Act, 1986," (Bill No. 22) ~ a Bill, "An Act To Amend The Urban And Rural Planning Act," (Bill No. 9); a Bill, "An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act," (Bill No. 23), carried.

On motion, Bills Nos. 22, 9 and 23 read a first time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow. L20 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI Motion, the hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Provide For The Regulation Of Motor Vehicles Used In The Transportation Of Persons Or Goods For Compensation," carried. (Bill No. 12) On motion, Bill No. 12 read a first time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Fisheries to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Amend The Fish Inspection Act," carried. (Bill No. 18) On motion, Bill No. 18 read a first time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow. Motion, the hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Revise And Consolidate The Law Respecting Crown Lands, Public Lands And Other Lands Of The Province," carried. (Bill No. 25) On motion, first time, Bill No. 25 read a ordered read a second time, on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Development to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Amend The l''reedom Of Information Act," carried. (Bill No. 6). (Bill No. 6) On motion, Bill No. 6 read a first time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow. Motion, the han. the Minister of Education to introduce the following Bills: "An Act Respecting The Department Of Education," (Bill No. 3)~ "An Act To Amend The Education (Teachers' Pensions) Act," (Bill No. 5), No. 3 R20

carried. On motion, Bills Nos. 3 and 5 read a first time, ordered read a second time, ·an tomorrow. Motion, the han. the Minister of Health to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Amend The Welfare Institutions Act," (Bill No. 20), carried. On motion, Bill No. 20 read a first time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow. Motion, the hon. the Minister of Social Services to introduce the following Bills: "An Act To Amend the Day Care and Homemaker Services Act, 1975," (Bill No. 10); "An Act Respecting The Department of Social Services," (Bill No. 4), carried.

On motion, Bills Nos. 10 and 4 read a first time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow. Motion, the han. the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture to introduce the following Bills: "An Act To Amend The Livestock (Health) Act," (Bill No. 19); "An Act To Revise The Law Respecting The Management, Harvesting And Protection Of The Forests Of The Province," (Bill No. 11), carried. On motion, Bills Nos. 19 and 11 read a f lt"st time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow.

Motion, the han. the Minister of Justice to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Repeal Certain Obsolete And Spent Statutes," carried. (Bill No. 21) On motion, Bills No. 21 read a first time, ordered read a second time, on tomorrow. L21 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI MR. BAKER: Order 1, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for St. John's South. MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr'. Speaker. Again it is a privilege for me to r'ise in this hon. House to speak in the Address in Reply to the Throne Speech that was delivered so graciously the other day by the Lieutenant-Governor.

I want to address sincere congratulations to the han. the Member for LaPoile (Mr. Ramsay) who so eloquently moved the Gt"acious Speech and to the han. the Member for Placentia (Mr. Hogan) who seconded that motion. Mr. Speaker, I think our han. friends opposite, in yester'day's sitting of the House, were quite adamant that the twelve pages of this Throne Speech contained very little and/or next to nothing. I would suggest to han.

Members opposite if this Government, knowing the Members of this Government, can what is documented in this Speech, this time next year the people of this Province will be basking in the sunshine of Liberalism, the red glow of Liberalism. First of all, Mr. Speaker, let. me respond to some of the ramblings of the han. Opposition House Leader who had nothing to say about this particular document, or felt there was nothing in this particular Speech to say anything about. Still and all, he rambled on for an hour and told this han. House that he could speak for a week. Then, yesterday, the han. No. 3 R21

the Member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) rose and discussed what is a ver:y extremely important issue to me and to all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, namely, the fishery. I would suggest that the Throne Speech could be 112 pages long, with issues relating to the tremendous crisis that surrounds all of us as Members in this han. House, with respect to the catastrophe that has befallen the people of Newfoundland and Labrador:, the crisis in the fishing industry. Now, Mr. Speaker:, I do not intend to stand up here and take political shots, if at all possible - it depends on the han.

Members opposite - and lay blame anywhere. I think we all well understand and know that the mismanagement of that resource has gone on for: almost eternity, and the people primarily responsible for that mismanagement are the jurisdictional people, namely, the Federal Government. I know that this time last year:, just about on the eve of when the han. the Leader: of the Opposition was to be sworn in as the thir:d Premier: of this Province - AN HON. MEMBER: The fourth. MR. MURPHY: That is r:ight, the fourth. I forgot about the other Tor:y. AN HON. MEMBER: You ar:e allowed to forget about him. MR.

MURPHY: I am allowed to for:get about him, I suppose. Anyway, he was in crisis. He had L22 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI tremendous concern about lhe fishing industry and what it was going to lead to. One year: later: we have seen the destruction of the offshore fishery, whereby the scientists in Ottawa have told the industry that the Northern cod allocation was reduced to 197,000. Now originally it would have been reduced to 190, 000, but the han. the Member for St. John's West (Mr. Crosbie), that great fr:iend of Newfoundland who has all of a sudden forgotten, I think, wer:e he was born and br:ed, went out - SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. MURPHY: Yes, well fine. Sobeit. True though it be, or whatever, it is now 197,000 metric tons because he tr:ied to make a deal to save one of the plants, which I have no problem with. He tried to make a deal to save a plant - only one plant - in his District, namely, Trepassey. However, one of his proteges fr:om Treasury Boar:d days, one of his blooming young stars on the horizon, let him down. Mr:. Crosbie said, "I was betrayed." Now I do not know who betrayed him. I will leave it to history to say who betrayed him.

So the 7, 000 additional metr:ic tons that he got of his cohort and friend Mr:. Siddon went into the system. I am sur:e the han. Minister: of Fisheries is glad to have that 7,000 mett"ic tons. I am sul:'e h(! is. However: today that fish plant, Mt". Speaker:, would be getting ready to put the chains and locks on it only for: the initiative of this han. Gentleman het"e and the Premier of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. 3 R22

Hear-, hear-! MR. MURPHY: They went t..o Mr-. Young and his Boar-d of Dir-ector-s and offer-ed two year-s of assistance until the fisher-y hopefully would r-evive itself and get back on its feet because of Tor-y mismanagement at the Feder-al level, and the inability of the Tor-ies at the Pr-ovincial level to do anything other- than to gr-ab onto the 1986 and 1987 wonder- year-s. Well what happened to the plant on the Southside. Wher-e was the hon. MP? Wher-e was he? He was unhear-d. He was unseen. He was not seen, Mr-. Speaker-, nor- did he do anything positive. Let me tell you, Mr.

Speaker-, because of the persistence and the initiative of this Gover-nment with NatSea - that big company that has its head office in Nova Scotia - this Gover-nment yester-day announced that they would r-emove the groundfish operation on the Southside as of August 5 of this year. The initial announcement last year, when the hon. Member's badgered and tossed barbs at me, because the plant in my District was going under and nobody over here was concerned only me. That ver-y plant now has a life, it is alive and the hon. Member-s know why. In my discussions with the hon. Minister of Fisheries, Mr.

Speaker, we did have meetings and I was privy to some of those meetings. I do not mind telling the Members opposite, and telling this hon. House, that initially that plant was gone. It was finished. It was history. And we offered and asked NatSea, when they mentioned shr-imp, how come they could not mix gr-oundf ish and shrimp? How come they could not L23 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI still process groundfish on the Southside as well as have a shrimp plant? And we wer-e told straight and honestly, that their advisors had told them that because of a bacteria pr-oblem this was impossible.

I then raised the issue of the one in Port aux Choix, where r'isher-y Pr-oducts could handle groundfish and shr-imp, and they said no to the quality, and they were adamant. But at least thr-ough the initiative again of this Minister, the Minister- of Fishedes in this Gover-nment, and because of the Premier- of this Province, thank God today at least 60 per- cent of the jobs that wer-e available this time last year on the Southside will be available August 5 of 1990. Now, Mr.

Speaker-, the President of that union who showed very sincere emotion over all of this pr-oblem existing at Nat Sea, said this mor-ning, and I will not quote her-, but basically what the lady said was, that the option in front of them has been accepted in pr-inciple. So the union has accepted it, so we know that these jobs are now in place. We have time. The heat and the light and all that facility over- ther-e will be utilized and used now on a permanent basis. We all hope, I would hope, that as time goes on the possibility is always ther-e that this plant could very well get back into groundfish pr-oduction.

I know that the hon. the Member for- St. John's East Extern (Mr-. Parsons) would have to be ver-y, very concerned at this point in time that, as of Apr-il 5th, the lock was going on that plant. A tr-emendous amount of inshor-e pr-oduct will be available, hopefully, if the cod tr-aps fill No. 3 R23

up as they filled up last year. And, due to the initiative of the Minister, last year, when he brought in that ship, we do have somewhere to take that inshore allocation. Now I would agree with the remarks yesterday of the bon. the Member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews), that it. is going to be a tough, rough year for the provincial Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Carter) . He is going to have to make an awful lot of set:"ious and courageous decisions because of the lack of inshore fish. And we have already seen that. We will not talk about plant closures. Be wise and leave plant closures alone.

Talking about plant closures and talking about resolutions presented in this House, let me t:"ead from Hansat:"d, Mr. Speaket:": Fish plants that discontinued operation during the period from Apt:"il, 1985 to April, 1989. AN HON. MEMBER: Now, let us hear that. MR. MURPHY: B. and M. Fisheries, Twi llingate, closed! Baccalieu Fisheries, Grates Cove, closed! Coastal Seafoods Limited, Highlands, closed! Fishermen's Dock, Placentia, closed! Greenspond Fish Processors, St. George's, closed! Hindy's Enterprises, New Perlican, closed! Humber Cold Storage, Castor River Mouth, closed! Kenmount Sea Products, St.

John's, closed! Parsons Pond Seafoods Limited, Parsons Pond, closed! Conception Bay Seafoods Limited, Petty Harbour, closed! Phoenix Fisheries, Black Duck Cove, closed! Port au Port Seafoods, Piccadilly, closed! L24 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI Terra Nova Fisheries Company, Limited, Lethbridge, closed! Fulford Fisheries Limited, Fox Island River, closed! MR. HODDER: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaket:", the bon. gentleman is reading from a list here, and on two occasions he mentioned Greenspond Seafoods in St.

Geot:"ge' s, which had a licence but never opened . He mentioned Port au Port Seafoods, which had left - but Connors Brothers had come in. We got Connors Brothers back in. What is this Government going lo do to get a new person there now that Connors Brothers have gone? If you are going to read your list, read it properly and give cot:"rect information. MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order . The hon. the Member for St . John's South. MR. MURPHY: It just goes to show, Mr. Speaker! At that particular time when Port au Port Seafoods closed, they did not know that Connors Brothers were coming in!

How did they know? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MURPHY: And I carry on: Terra Nova Fisheries in Lethbridge, closed! Fulford Fisheries in Fox Island River, closed! Blue Cove Fisheries in Blue Cove, closed! Branch Fisheries Limited in Branch, closed! And this is an No. 3 R24

all-plants-open Opposition! Marvellous! Marvellous, Mr. Speaker! And I might add that the Leader of the Opposition was then the Minister.of Fisheries! Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I recognize the Placentia West, point of order. Member for Burin - I presume, on a MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I important when any House is providing the House that the think it is Member of this information to information he provides be accurate information.

And the Member should point out and the record should show that the Member, in talking about these plants closing, neglected to say that the Leader of the Opposition, who was then the Minister of Fisheries, saw to it that every single plant that closed was re-opened, Mr. Speaker, not like his Leader. MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. The bon. the Member for St. John's South. MR. MURPHY: I would like to table this document and then we will see if all these plants are re-opened, as said by the han. Leader of the Opposition, we will see.

We will see and if you are correct, I promise you, Sir, I will apologize. These plants were L25 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI closed. The St. John's plant was announced to be closed and is now re-opened by this Government, not by the Opposition, not by your- Feder-al colleagues but by this Gover-nment. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MURPHY: Now, Mr. Speaker-, considering the fishing crisis that we have in this Province and to think that the Federal Gover-nment would tur-n ar-ound and commit a Newfoundlander­ of the stature of Dr.

Leslie Har-ris, to do a report and have that report in their hand and hold on to it and not have the courtesy to give this Government and the han. Minister of Fisheries, a copy of that is horr-endous and it shows the concern of the Ottawa Tor-ies for this Pr-ovince. When the han. Member for Grand Bank, rose in his place yesterday, he indicated, and the press picked up on it, of the number of lay offs in FPI plants throughout his District, Grand Bank and F'or-tune. I referenced that this morning, Mr.

Speaker, and my understanding is Lhat those lay-offs were nothing more than normal lay- of fs that have occurred over a period of time. What he failed to address yesterday, living so close to the historical Grand Banks, the 3PS zone, that the communities of Grand Bank and Fortune have lived, strived and worked off for so long, he forgot to mention it, because he knows deep down, as the Member for Burin - Placentia West well knows, that without the northern cod, the processing plants on the Burin Peninsula could not survive. But he did not raise the issue of the destruction which is going on in the hon.

Member- for I<'ortune Hermitage District where not one, single, No. 3 R25

solitary long-liner:, not one hook and line man has made enough to pay for his gas. He did not raise that and that is from Grand Bank to Port aux Basques. Ah, yes, most of the hook and line people - I know it, you know it and the hon. Member knows it . The han. Member well knows that the whole demise of the South Coast hook and line fishery is nothing more than a Tory mistake from day one and these people endorse that Tory mistake. Let me speak, Mr. Speaker, about the Prime Minister of this wonderful country, Canada. I heard yesterday, the han.

Member for Humber East, jumping to her feet and raising the Meech Lake initiative, and the damage that this Government is doing to the constitution of this country. When the han. Prime Minister turns -around and uses the very heritage, the very lifeblood of this Province as a tool to sell trucks and cars out of Ontario and other parts of Canada to Russia, and when they buy from the industrial hub of this country, then we pay the price by tur-ning around and having allocations of our fish dumped into the hands of the Eastern Block Nations.

Those are the kinds of irresponsible mistakes on the part of the Federal Tory Administr-ation that the people of this Province have had to live with far too long. Blame the Feds is right, because the hon. Member for Grand Falls (Mr. Simms) knows too well, he heard the hon. Member from Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) rise in his place yesterday and say he is not sure there is no cod, and maybe we are not sure that there is no cod. Maybe there is lots of cod out there because the tr-awler captains that I know are telling me the same thing as they are telling the han. Member for: Gt'and Bank. But does the han.

Member: L26 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI for Grand Bank want lo lake a chance that they ar:e r:ight, because this industry has been told by the scientific data presented by the Federal Tories and by the Harr:is Commission that the TAC should now, on northet'n cod, be 125,000 tons not 19 7, 000 tons. Mr. Speaker, let me say this, you cannot have your fish and eat it too. This Province has the capacity to handle a half million mett'ic tons of gr:oundfish - we have the capacity. The pr:oblem is, Mr. Speaker, we do not have the fish. That is the reality. Therein lies the problem.

And all the rheteric and all the garble and whatever of the hon . Members opposite is not going to help one fishermen on The Bill of Cape st. George's, down in Flatrock, or up in Twillingate. It is time for us to stop this silly nonsense and speak, as all hon. Members should, in a right and sensible manner when they are addressing lhe fishery. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. MURPHY: Yes, you ar-e right. Member is right. The han . Give credit where credit is due. The only initiative in the last twelve months to handle the crisis in this fishing industry is lhe initiative of this Government. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Heat', hear! MR. MURPHY: Now you know the han. Membet' fat' Grand Falls, the hon. House Leader Opposite, stood in his place yestet'day and again said he would love the Economic Recovery No. 3 R26

Commission to be a success. He would be inspired if the House team brought to this Province enough jobs where we could take our place equally in this great country. However then he spent 25 minutes tearing it all down. Well let me say this to you, Mr. Speaker, the Economic Recovery Commission is in place. I, as a Member of this Liberal Government, have confidence and will support that Economic Commission to its success or to its demise. But at least we should give Dr.

House and his people all the room necessary and all the support possible to develop the type of Economic base that we need, outside of the 8 or 9 per cent that the fishery turns in in this Province. Mr. Speaker, The Speech from the Throne goes on and talks about the Hibernia project. The hon. Members on this side are almost fearful to mention the word Hibernia because we know and well understand what happened to the people in this Province for the last 12 years in dealing with the word Hibernia.

The newspaper of March 13, 1989: that was just before the hon. the Leader of the Opposition became Premier, and it says, 'Rideout hints Banks unhappy with Hibernia financing deal.' A year ago this Month, Mr. Speaker. So be very cautious when you have a Speech from the Throne, and you think and talk about Hibernia, because there are many people in this city and other cities and towns of this Province, who took the Government of the day on their word, and will never pay off the Banks what they lost on Hibernia. We are not deceitful over on this side, Mr. Speaker, we are telling the truth.

And with soft conscious negotiations we will see what will happen to Hibernia. L27 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MURPHY: You know, Mr. Speaker, one of the other dreams in my mind, as I was fortunate enough to work there while the hon. Member opposite was sitting as a Liberal over here in those days, was working in Churchill Falls.

And as the Speech from the Throne says 'That thrust for the redevelopment of the Upper Churchill, the added megawatts of power that we can put into the national system, the development of the Lower Churchill are now again at a very critical stage and critical time.' But let me say this, Mr. Speaker, the Lower Churchi 11 is the renewable, renewable, renewable resource that will give jobs and prosperity to the people of this Province and again, Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Minister of Energy (Mr. Gibbons) in his own quiet way is still and presently negotiating that great project.

And the Liberal Government of the day started Churchill Falls and the Liberal Government of the day will finish this Churchill Falls. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MURPHY: We were very hopeful, Mr. Speaker, that NATO was going to take advantage of the Goose Bay facility. However, again last week we saw the warbler, the blue-eyed Vice-President in Halifax, without anything to back it up, shooting off his face and demising again another project in this Province. AN HON. MEMBER: Watch the language. MR . MURPHY: No. 3 R27

Yes, shooting off his face. If he cannot say anything positive to help this Province, why does he say anything at all? MR. SIMMS: Clean up your act! Sit down, boy! MR. MURPHY: We see that sliding away from us. We see that sliding away from us, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: I wonder what your majority would be in the South? MR. MURPHY: I tell the hon. Member for Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) right now in this House that it would be bigger than his majority, I guarantee you that right now. Because the only chance he can hope of getting elected again is that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. W.

Carter) and the Minister of Development (Mr. Furey) save his soul. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MURPHY: They are not driving out of Burin - Placentia West, they are rowing out of it. Mr. Speaker, again I could go on and on and on about the quality of this Speech from the Throne, condensed, but condensed with platinum and gold. Not condensed with cucumbers, rhetoric and tossed salads as we saw for years. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MURPHY: A very important area, Mr. Speaker, is the area of post-secondary education.

Surely L28 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI heavens if we are going to develop the new jobs then surely we must develop educated Newfoundlanders who will be confident to go into those jobs. And I say to the han. Minister of Education (Dr. Warren) it is a credit to you, Sir, and your Department, the White Paper on Post-Secondar·y Education. You are to be congratulated. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MURPHY: Today the Employment (Ms Cowan) han. Minister for and Labour Relations sat in her place and was charged at, harassed almost by the han. Opposition House Leader.

She had her people in place in Grand Falls, but could not say anything, Mr. Speaker. But again this Government will deal with The Public Service Collective Agreement under the House Leader (Mr. Baker), this Government under the Minister of Labour, will deal with it - for seventeen years these people avoided it. But as we see in the Speech from the Throne this Government has the courage and the strength and the forebearance to deal with it. Then I see my han. fC"iend from Fogo (Mr. s. Winsor) standing in his place the other day in the Speech from the Throne and bringing a resolution in. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Member's time has elapsed. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin · Placentia West. No. 3 R28

MR. W. CARTER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Fisheries, on a point of order. MR. W. CARTER: I think, Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Member for St. John's South misled the House. I do not think it was intentional or deliberate, but he did mislead the House. I think, in the interest of history and posterity and given the fact, of course, that the han. the Leader of the Opposition is the champion of the all-plants-open policy, I should put on record that he mentioned there being 16 plants closed from the period 1985 to 1989, the period, I think, when the hon.

Member was Minister of Fisheries. Mr. Speaker, he did mislead the House, because that should read 24 plants were closed during that period. In the period April 1985 to April 1989, 24 plants were closed by the champion of the all-plan~s-open policy. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, this is nothing more than a ploy to take some tlme away from my colleague so I will be very, very brief and deal with this at another time.

The hon. gentleman will find that out of all 24 - I have only 16, and obviously there are others - I do not know about all, but certainly 90 per cent closed and re-opened. L29 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI On the other hand, the four the Government has listed, that closed since they went into office, only one of those has re -opened. So, we have a much better record than they have. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! There is no point of order, just a disagreement amongst han. Members. The han. the Member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, let me say to the Member for St .

John's South that when he was getting on with his foolishness, he said the only way I would be elected again is if the Minister of Fisheries and the Minister of Development save my soul. Mr. Speaker, I have great respect for the Ministers Opposite, but I never realized they were empowered to save souls. I know they are Ministers, but I did not know they were empowered to save souls. Mr. Speaker, Member for St. let me say to John's South the that when he gets up and rants and raves about St. John's, does the Member for St. John's South know that the Premier of this Province stated, 'If Burgeo or St.

John's have to go down' it will be st. John's, and that the people working in the fish plants in St. John's can get jobs at the Radisson, at the Battery and Hotel Newfoundland?' Did the Premier of Newfoundland not say that? Is that support you, the Member for St. John's? Is it Mr. Speaker? On the CBC program, Morning Side, on Feb. 5th, what did the Premier of the Province say? 'I acknowledge and accept that those No. 3 R29

plants must inevitably close in o~de~ to deal with the massive c~isis in the fishing indust~y. All we a~e d,oing is giving them a little bit of time . ' What confidence in the St. John's fish plant and the wo~ke~s on the South Side. You should be ashamed of you~self to sit in a caucus led by a man who put the knife to the workers of the St . John's South fish plant. And we can go fu~the~ than that.

What happened when the crowd from Grand Bank came in at 1:00 p.m. in the day, down in the lobby of the Confede~ation building, when they said to thei~ Premier, 'Put up some money and keep our plant open?' 'I would if I could, but I cannot,' and he was backing into the elevato~. Mr. Speaker. With that, the doo~ closed. Then he said, 'Upstai~s. boys, we have to do something. ' Out of the blue, '$11.5 million, Vic.' No conditions, Mr. Speaker. What does that say fo~ the ~ep~esentation the Member fo~ St. John's South gave his constituents when they did not have a penney and thei~ plant was announced closed for weeks?

Whe~e was you~ ~ep~esentation? He sat there and toed the line. You should be ashamed of you~self to sit in that caucus . FPI got the money. There was no (inaudible) up here. MR. MURPHY: That is why the plant is open, and it will be open when you are long gone. MR. TOBIN: The other thing, Mr. Speaker - MR . MURPHY: Read Crosbie's it all. MR. TOBIN: Yes, I wil; 1. letter now. Read Indeed, I will read L30 Mar:-ch 13, 1990 Vol XLI Cr:-osbie's letter . MR. MURPHY: Read who it is add~essed to . MR. TOBIN: You did not read Crosbie's lette~. did you? No, Mr.

Speaker, because there are some facts there that should make you ashamed to sit in the Assembly. You should be ashamed to sit in the Assembly. You are a disgrace to your constituents. You should do the honourable thing and resign. That is what you should do. He got in this House and he said, The St. John's fish plant 60 per cent open, thanks to the Government and the Minister of Fisheries. What about the battle fought by Linda Hyde and the fish plant worker:-s? Why did you tur:-n your back on them and not mention their names or give them one iota of credit in you~ speech today?

Why did he not give them one ounce of credit today? He took it all himself. I submit that the representation made by Linda Hyde and the Fishermen's Union on the Southside Plant was a lot more effective than what he said. And for him to thor:-oughly ignor e th eir contribution to what is happening there today is an insult to every man and woman who works in that industr-y on the Southside, and he should apologize. If the~e is a decent bone in his body, Mr . Speaker:-, he will apologize to them. AN HON. MEMBER: Read the letter from Crosbie now . Come on . MR. TOBIN: Yes, I will read the letter from Crosbie.

Sut"e I have a copy of the letter fr-om Cr-osbie. He w~ites the Member:-, 'When National Sea was considering what fish plants it might have to close in No. 3 R30

Newfoundland, the support made it that the plant Southside of the Government you clear to NatSea located on the harbour of st. John's was the most dispensable of their plants and certainly should be closed before plants such as Burgeo.' SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. TOBIN: Would the Premier deny he said that? Mr. Speaker, is the Member for St. John's South saying that the Premier did not say that? Are you saying the Premier did not say it? MR. MURPHY: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: No, Mr. Speaker. The Member has acknowledged that the Premier said that, and that is another reason why he should apologize.

You have the Member for St. John's South acknowledging that the Premier of this Province said that. 'The Government you support made it clear to NatSea that the plant located on the Southside of the harbour of St. John's was the most dispensable of their plants and certainly should be closed before a plant such as Burgeo.' MR. MURPHY: According to Crosbie . MR.

TOBIN: Did the P_remier, on the morning show of Februai:"y 5 when referi:"ing to Gaultois, Trepassey, Grand Bank and NatSea say, 'I acknowledge and accept that those plants must inevitably close in oi:"der to deal with the massive crisis in the fishing industi:"y. Al 1 we ai:"e doing is giving them a little bit rnoi:"e time?' Did the Premiei:" say L31 Mai:"ch 13, 1990 Vol XLI that? MR. MURPHY: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: Again, MI:'. Speaker, he acknowledges that the Premier wanted to close the St. John's plant.

So how can that man, who represents the work force down there, stand in this House and give credit to the PI:"emier for saving the plant and totally ignore the contribution of the union and Linda Hyde? MR. MURPHY: They were (inaudible). MR. SIMMS: (Inaudible) mention them. MR. MURPHY: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: you did not even Oh, yes, you did. Why then $11.5 million? It is not near enough for the fishing industry in this Province, but the big boardrooms, the big boys in the fishing industry - ah, he cannot take the heat, Mr. Speaker. He has to leave. The strange thing about it is I feel son·y for the man.

He went out there hanging his head, and so he should. I would say he has gone to the news media, as he usually does, to say 'For God's sake, say I mentioned Linda Hyde's name.' If I were like him, I would have gone too. But. I would not have forgotten to say it. Why did the Government say to FPI and to National Sea here is money for the f lshing industry to keep the employees working? What did the Govet"nment have against the employees at Fermuse, Fet"I:"yland, St. Mary's, Riverhead and Belleoi:"am? Why did they not offer No. 3 R31

that company the same amount of money, Mr. Speaker? Why did they turn their backs on these individuals? What about the group over in Jerseyside, Placentia? The Member over there has been looking for an operator. I heard him on radio, working hard trying to find one because the Government of this Province turned its back on them. But there was no problem giving FPI money, when there was a $100 million bailout to them a few years ago. I supported giving them the money. Do not get me wrong. I think they need more. MR. EFFORD: Your time is up. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) take John. MR.

TOBIN: The Member for Port de Grave is a good one to talk about the fishing industry, when he was here advocating the middle distance trawlers should go. Last in first out, how often did you and the Minister of Fisheries say that? Then the other day we had one of the Members, the Member for Trinity - Bay de Verde (Mr. L. Snow), introducing a resolution to get fish for the middle distance vessels. What hypocrisy! Does the Member for Port de Grave, the Minister of Social Services, support the middle distance vessels now?

What changed! 'Be it further resolved that the Provincial Government attempt to get the quota for the middle distance fleet reinstated without a reduction in the inshore cause. ' What hypocrisy! How any Member who has been elected to this Assembly, be he Liberal or Conservative is not important, can desert his constituents, turn on L32 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI his constituents, how any Member can stand here and support plants closing in his district, is beyond belief. It is shocking! Mr. Speaker, would it not be more honourable to resign?

I was in the Government benches when Burin closed, and I can tell the Member for St. John's South and others who will toe the line of their Premier, that I toed no line when Burin was going down the stream, and my colleagues know this and so did everybody in the House of Assembly. I toed the line of the people of Burin Placentia West who sent me here. The people who sent me here - MR. FUREY: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: What is that, Chuck? MR. FUREY: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: Mr.· Speaker, the Minister for Underdevelopment is yapping again. The Executive Assistant to Dr. House is yapping again.

Let me say to the Minister of Development that he is another fellow who should not be toeing the line. He should go up to the Premier and say, Premier, I have the ability - which I think you have, by the way - to be Minister of Development. MR. SIMMS: (Inaudible) plant just c lased, by the way. MR. TOBIN: Yes, that is right. And he did not know about. it until Rill Matthews mentioned it yesterday afternoon. And there is a fellow in his district in j a i.l for No. 3 R32

believing the Pr-emier:- of this Pr-ovince when he said they would abolish school taxes. He did not pay it and .now he is locked up, bar:-r:-ed up, clinked up, Mr:-. Speaker:-. They put him in jail for­ believing a statement made by the Pr-emier:-, for believing the Premier. MR. EJ.i'FORD: Tell us what you did when you were Minister? MR. TOBIN: What I did when I was Minister? I can tell the Minister what I did not do. I represented the Premier of the Province, not my br-other. SOME HON. MF.MBERS: Oh, oh! MR. TOBIN: Now, Mr. Speaker, I have taken enough fr-om the Minister of Social Services. MR.

EFFORD: Tell us about the cameras. MR. TOBIN: Yes, Mr. Speaker. As a matter of fact, like every other Gover-nment Department, we had camer-as. I do not know if that was the came["a used to take a pictu["e of the pig kissing John Efford. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: Not him kissing the pig, the pig kissing him. Now, Mr. Speaker, he is still over the["e. MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN : Yes, Mr:-. Speake[". And do you know L33 Ma["ch 13, 1990 Vol XLI something?

When we left the Department of Social Services all the things that we["e purchased out of the Minister's vote for the office, like other Ministers are doing now, he did not even have the courtesy to ask if we wanted any of it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: Do you know what he Speake["? He kept it himself. Now that will how selfish he is. did, all tell M[". for­you Mr. Speaker, let me get on to the issue of the Thr-one Speech. What about the amalgamation issue? MR. MURPHY: What about the fridge, the stove and the microwave? MR. TOBIN: What fridge? MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible) stoves out the["e? MR.

TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, did the Membe[" want to get into stoves and the pr-ogram initiated by the Federal Government some years ago? I would suggest the Minister of Social Services should be very quiet when he wants to talk about appliances in this Legislature. He should be very quiet, Mr. Speaker, about appliances. He should not, Mr. Speaker:-, pick me. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: No, no. I am not getting pe["sonal. Now what about amalgamation? 1 do not see the Minister of Municipal No. 3 R33

Affairs here. He has destroyed communities in this Province. He has pitted one community against another. He has created divisions within commu.nities. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, do you know what he did? He put the Member for Placentia in the most embarrassing situation I have ever seen a Member placed in. A Member of his own Liberal Executive had to come out and criticize the Government for railroading amalgamation in his town - a Member of his Executive. AN HON. MEMBER: What did he not do it? MR. TOBIN: Do not worry about him, he is all right. AN HON. MEMBER: Did he support (inaudible). MR.

TOBIN: No, Mr. Speaker, he does whatever Felix Collins says. And there is good reason why he jumps when that line is pulled. Amalgamation is a deadly weapon in this Province. MR. MURPHY: Not in this town. Ask the Member for St. John's East. MR. TOBIN: Amalgamation is a dead throughout the Province. issue Mr. Speaker, while the Minister of Development is here there is one thing I would like to mention to him, and that is as of the 31st of this month, the 31st of March, the Ocean Industry Agreement, which - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) amalgamation. MR.

TOBIN: I am talking about something very L34 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI important. The Ocean Industry Agreement, Mr. Speaker, contains approximately $10 million still for the construction of txaw1ers, a subsidy to the Marystown Shipyard for the construction of trawlers. As of the 31st of this month, that will be expiring and I want the Minister of Development to assure the House and the people of Burin - Placentia West, particularly the people at the Maeystown Shipyard, that that money will remain earmarked for the Maeystown Shipyard.

I think it is important that that money not go anywhere else, but. stick strictly for the Marystown Shipyard until the time it ls to be used. MR. FUREY: Do you want me to answer that? MR. TOBIN: No, Mr. Speaker, he can mention it when he speaks in the debate. MR. FUREY: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, for the benefit of the Member, this is not Quest ion Period. It is a time for debate, and when he speaks he responds to what has been raised. MR. FUREY: You are asking questions. MR. TOBIN: Mr.

Speaker, the saddest thing that has ever happened on the Burin Peninsula has happened in the last year, and that is that over one hundred former employees of the Maeystown Shipyard have now left. Over one hundred former employees of the Marystown Shipyard have now moved to Mainland Canada to get employment. No. 3 R34

MR. R. AYLWARD: Tell him why. MR. TOBIN: Yes, I will tell him why. Because the Government of this Province refused to provide a subsidy to the Shipyard, in conjunction with the Federal Government, to build a shrimp trawler; because they delayed for one year the construction of a second ferry. That is why, Mr. Speaker. Yes, $5 million is what they refused, right? AN HON. MEMBER: Nine million. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I heard the Member for Mount Scio up there talking about providing a subsidy to the Shipyard workers.

What difference is there in providing a subsidy to Shipyard workers than fish plant workers, mine workers, or any other workers in this Province? What, Mr. Speaker? He has been brought to task already by the union. He should be careful. The Minister of Development knows full well the negative fallout from the Marystown Shipyard employees. The Minister of Social Services knows it. As a matter of fact, he was down on the Burin Peninsula, Mr. Speaker, and he stated publicly that he met with the crowd because of the desperate economic conditions facing the Burin Peninsula.

Not only that, he has advertised for more social workers for down there, all as a result of the policies of this Government . The Shipyard is gone, Mr. Speaker. MR. HOGAN: I will send you over an article. MR. TOBIN: L35 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI Mr. Speaker, the Member for Placentia has an artie le, but let. me read mine first. Placentia Towns balk on Amalgamation. Placentia towns balk on amalgamation, Mr.

Speaker. 'The Provincial Government has not released enough information on the proposed amalgamation of four Placentia area communities to allow town councils involved to come to any positive conclusion, the Commission studying the issue were told Thursday night.' Mr. Speaker, that is something for a former Mayor of the area to be proud of, in here letting the Government turn on his constituents and communities like that. That is something for the former Mayor of Dunville to be proud of. How soon he turned his back on the people, Mr. Speaker. MR. MURPHY: Read it. Read it in the House. MR. TOBIN: No, Mr. Speaker.

But I read the letter the Member for St. John's South sent over yesterday. MR. MURPHY: Yes. Sure you did. MR. TOBIN: Probably you would want to discuss the one you wrote yesterday with the Member for Placentia. Mr. Speaker, let me say more about other issues. There is another issue, the transfer of social services, and I want to mention this in a1 1 sincerity to the Minister of Social Services. There is a very serious situation in this Province as it . !:"elates to home care fot:" people living in the it:" own homes. Right now, Mt:". No. 3 R35

Speaker, and I do not know if the Minister is aware of this or not, the Department of Social Services is withdrawing home care from some of the people who were receiving it. MR. EFFORD: The Minister everything that Department. MR. TOBIN: is goes aware of on in his Mr. Speaker, that is fair. Well, then, what is happen in this Province today is that there are elderly people, living in their own homes, getting assistance fcom the Department of Social Services, where people come in a help them through the day or night, or whatever the case may be.

Now what has been happening in the last few months is that this assistance is being withdrawn, and those people do not have the same type of care they had before. They do not have it, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to know what is happening with the funds that have been saved on the backs of the sick and suffering and elderly of this Province . I would like to know if any of these funds are being saved on the backs of the sick, suffering and elderly of this Province and diverted to the refugees. MR. EFFORD: Who signed the deal? AN HON. MEMBER: What deal? MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible) were paying for the refugees. MR.

TO BI N: Mr. Speaker, we have for refugees, L36 March 13, 1990 always paid f lf ty-fifty. Vol XLI cost-shared under the Canada Assistance Plan. But that is not important. What is important here, as far as I am concerned, and I think most Members would agree with me, is the protection of the elderly in this Province. Mr. Speaker, what about education? AN HON. MEMBER: What about it? MR. TOBIN: I have ten minutes left. What about the White Paper on education? I have nothing against anything being done in lhis Province to improve education.

I have nothing against anything that is going to provide better education in this Province, whether it be secondary or post-secondary. But, Mr. Speaker, there are twenty-five employees of the Eastern Community College, set up in Burin. Some of them have moved there and built new homes in the past year, and now the Minister has put out a White Paper that would remove these people from that area . He will be responsible for uprooting families, moving people from the area, if that happens. DR. WARREN: (Inaudible) answer that? MR. TOBIN: Yes, Mr. Speaker. to speak in the like him to sincerely would. AN HON.

MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR . TOB IN: When he gets up debate, I would address it, I Mr. Speaker, wh~n you ask the Minister of Education a quest ion, his answer is far more informative than when you ask a quest ion of No. 3 R36

the The give Minister Minister you a of Transportation. of Education will sincere and honest answer. I tell you, I have a coming one of these days Minister of Transportation. AN HON. MEMBER: question for the He will be jumping up for it. MR. TOBIN: Yes, you will see he will be jumping up for it. Mr. Speaker, when you talk about this common first year program, where you have first year university programs, for example, in Burin, I hope they will also be able to go to St. Xavier or St. Mary's, if they wish, the following year. DR. WARREN: I will address that, also. MR. TOBIN: Okay, I appreciate that. Now, Mr.

Speaker, just let me touch briefly on Transportation. MR. EFFORD: Your time is up. AN HON. MEMBER: By leave. MR. TOBIN: No, it is not. I will be presenting a petition in this House, one of these days, from the people of Petit Forte, and I expect some action, Mr. Speaker. I expect action on the Petit Forte road, for these hard-working, decent people who have had their jugular cut by the Minister. L37 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI Mr. Speaker, I have not had lime to get to the Economic Recovery Commission. I will deal with that later.

But I can tell you that the Economic Recovery Commission has done nothing for the Burin Peninsula. About 300 people have left the Burin Peninsula since this Government was elected. They have gone to work on the Mainland. I wish the Member for Pleasantville were here, Mr. Speaker, so I could give hj m full marks for his courage to stand up against this Government that wants to hire Doug House at a salary of $105,000 a year. The Premier talks about reducing his Cabinet. Mr. Speaker, he has given mor·e powers to an unelected Cabinet than he has given to his elected Cabinet. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR.

TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I have geeat confidence in the Minister of Development. Do not forget lhat. I think he is a bright young man, a very capable fellow, Mr. Speaker. AN HON. MEMBER: I do not think so. MR. TOBIN: Well, I do. I think the Minister of Development is a very capable young man, I really do. And foe the Premier to leave him with no responsibility whatsoever, to cut the guts out of his Departme~t, is wrong. It is wrong! The Premier should let the Minister of Development be the Minister of Development. He got elected, he has earned his spurs. Why should Doug House replace the Minister of Development?

It is shameful, Mr. Speaker. No. 3 R37

I will say it every time I get a chance to say it, Mr. Speaker. Maybe there are people out there who could replace the Minister of Social Services - probably Beaton Tulk. We could probably recommend Beaton Tulk replace the Minister of Social Services. As a matter of fact, I heard he is calling the shots in the Department. I can tell you one thing, it did nothing for the morale of the employees in the Department of Social Services. MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible) good morale. MR. TOBIN: Indeed there is good morale in the Department of Social Services.

The appointment of Beaton Tulk was bad in the beginning, but now that he is calling the shots over the Minister - AN HON. MEMBER: He is not? MR. TOBIN: Yes, he is. Does he go directly to the Premier and bypass you? Answer that one. Has he ever gone directly to the Premier and bypassed you? Has he? MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: No, I am not saying so, I am asking you a question. Mr. Speaker, I am not the spokesman for Social Services. I have asked your leader a hundred times to give it to me, but he will not. I would really like to have it, Mr.

Speaker, so that I could display the incompetence of the present Minister. But their leader has seen fit not to give it to me, so I have no other choice but to respect his wishes. I am L38 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI sure the Minister would love me to have it, too. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. Member's time has elapsed . MR. TOBIN: By leave, Mr. Speaker? SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave! By Leave! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. GILBERT: Thank you, gentlemen. Mr.

Speaker, it is certainly an honour for me to get up and speak in this Throne Speech, the 1990 version. I would like at Lhis time to thank the proposer and seconder for the magnif icant job they did. I have been here for awhile now and I have heard a few ThC"one Speeches, so I thought we would go into a little bit of history today as I start off in this, so 1 wi 11 the blue covered ones. FiC"st of all, the Leoder of the Opposition got up and he talked about the thickness of our C"eport. You will notice there is not much difference in the thickness. The differenc~ is the quality that is inside the cover.

That makes the difference between ours and theirs, Mr. Speaker. We will take the Throne Speech of 1985. I thought that would be an interesting one to staC"t off wilh; it was the one when I first came to the House, so I wi 11 just scan No. 3 R38

it and sef! if there is anything worth talking about. I heard my colleaguf! for Grand Falls go on about the one for 1990 yesterday, so I thought . it was time we should refer back to some of the Throne Speeches of the not-to-distant past, some that are around now. The highlight of the Throne Speech of 1985 was a thing called the Atlantic Accord. MR. EFFORD : Remember that one. MR. GILBERT: There was going to be instant prosperity. That was how it was introduced when the Atlantic Accord came up.

Now, that we had shaken off the serious arrangements, or the agreement that was given them by the previous Government, the Liberal Government in 1982, this was the catalyst that was going to provide instant prosperity to Newfoundland. The Speech of 1985, that would about sum up what was going on. My colleagues who were here at the time, and I, we had some doubts about the Atlantic Accord and if it would do the job the fellows who were over here then, and who are over there now, were saying it would do.

If someone were to go back through Hansard, in my discussion of the Atlantic Accord I told the Premier, a gentleman who is not here now, who has retired and gone to his rest - in the time I had been in the House, every time someone stood up from our side, someone on this side would stand up and talk about the Churchill Falls Agreement, and I told the Premier, when I spoke on the Atlantic Accord, you might feel that you are entrenched in the history of Newfoundland, but I think, when people look at the L39 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI Atlantic Accord, you are going to be judged in the same way you are judging the Liberals for the Lower Churchill.

And you can sec now what has happened with the Atlantic Accord. I spoke against the Atlantic Accord, but I will tell you what I will do now, I wi 11 te 11 you the conclusion of the 1985 Budget Speech is nice. It says, "Together Government, business, labour, citizens groups and individuals can make it happ~n. The future is now in our collective hands. My Government is confident that it will not let the golden opportunity slip through its fingers as has happened so often with the sands of times past.

In the words of the quote Tennyson, 'we must resolve to be one equal temper of heroic hearts made weak by time and faith but ~trong in will to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield . '" Now that was the conclusion that was put in 1985. That was a flne way to go with the 1985 Throne Speech. I noticed the only thing of quality that was in it was a few lines from Tennyson, the rest of it was rhetoric we were so used to getting from the Members of the Government in 1985. We now have the Throne Speech for 1986. More Atlantic Accor. We were promised more instant prosperity again in 1986.

But one of the significant points in the Throne Speech of 1986 was the Government noted that because of the significant changfl in the attitude brought about by the 1984 election, there was now this spirit of Camp David prevalent between the Federal and Provincial Government so that all was now going to be rosy. We had now solved all the problems that we had in Newfoundland because we had No. 3 R39

a real good arrangement. The two Brians' , hand in hand, were going to inflict prosperity on Newfoundland,. I think was the statement that they made somewhere, I believe it was on the west coast somewhere during that 1984 election. They would not be afraid to inflict prosperity, and here it was this attitude that had kicked out the mean, Liberal Government in Ottawa, and now the two Brians' were going to do the job. Another important point that came in the Throne Speech in 1986 was free tC'ade. Free trade was going to be the salvation that year, it was going to be the answer to all our problems.

It was stated how our resource base industries were now going to find that market in that haven to the south. We had no more problems. Free trade was going to solve all our problems. Now we all know what free trade has done for us, Mr. Speaker. And let me tell you, Mr. Speaker, it is interesting because during the 1987 election - remember the one that was won and fought on the basis of free trade? And I am sure the Member for Burin Placentia West remembers statements that I made in BuC'in where I accused the Tory Government of selling out the people in Newfoundland.

And I pointed out that the president of F.P.I. and the president of National Sea would certainly not be affected by free trade - they would not be affected by free trade, but let me tell you that the fellow that was cutting fish in Ramnia or Gaultis or some place would be affected by it. And the Member carne out and, again, supported his people and said that free trade was good for us. But at what cost? And that is the point I am trying to make, Mr. L40 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI Speaker, winning, to them, is all that matters. It does not matter what the cost or what it has done to Newfoundland.

So the situation we find ourselves in today is partially due to the free trade agreement that you were so proud of in 1986. Here is the situation that we find ourselves in right now. Since this Tory Government came in in 1984, Mr. Speaker, and they were so proud to talk in 1986 about this great arrangement and this great agreement they had. There has been $100 million in Federal cutbacks, $100 million in Federal transfer payments cut coming to this Province of Newfoundland. So let me tell you, Mr. Speaker, that honeymoon we talked about in the 1986 Throne Speech was some honeymoon.

And I tell you dght now the people of Newfoundland are paying for it to the tune of $100 million that has been cut in Federal transfer payments. We come now, Mr. Speaker, to the 1987 Throne Speech, my God, this is a good one. Notice the thickness, you will notice it is Tory Blue and the quality is terrible. MR. SIMMS: (Inaudible). MR. GILBERT: But you will notice that was the same time you were a Liberal I would submit, and when I was taking you, I was saying, 'Len, my son, you are a Liberal.' AN HON. MEMB ER: (Inaudible) . MR. GILBERT: But anyhow let me te 11 you, Mr.

Speaker, in 1987 there was another one of those speeches that had No. 3 R40

neithe~ quality no~ quantity in it. But, M~. Speake~, you see the Th~one Speech of 1987 is ~ight he~e now. The selling point that came into this was the FPI p~ivatization, and the sell-off of the weak plants that followed. As a result of the p~ivatization the~e was the divestiture p~og~am that we all hea~d about and all those plants were sold off so that FPI was made strong and the P~ovince of Newfoundland picked up the loan gua~antees to buy all the ~est of those plants.

So not only did we p~ovide windfall p~ofits fo~ the ~ich and the few people who had sha~es in FPI and we~e ~eady fo~ it, but they put FPI back in the position that they we~e in in 1982, and the only thing is we c~eated those plants a~ound the P~ovince that FPI had in 1982. They got ~id of them and they made some quick p~ofits and now it is back on the backs of the Newfoundlanders again. So you can see that the 1987 Speech was a g~eat one and did a lot fo~ the people of Newfoundland. But we also noticed in that one, M~.

Speake~, the f l rs t signs that the honeymoon between the To~ies in Newfoundland and the To~ies in Ottawa was ove~. You heard the two B~ians we~e not seeing eye-to-eye. As a matte~ of fact they we~e not even talking to each other. And things came up like the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks, and ove~fishing, and the Premie~ asking the Prime Ministe~ to get involved. But then one of the b~ight lights of the speech towards the end was that we welcomed ACOA. Now we all know the benefits that ACOA has ~eaped on Newfoundland or inflicted on Newfoundland . We know what ACOA did.

It inflicted more dep~ession L41 Ma~ch 13, 1990 Vol XLI on Newfoundland than was there befo~e. AN HON. MEMBF.R: (Inaudible). MR. GILBERT: The Membe~ who is sitting in the back cannot speak coherently from his own seat so 1 am sure he cannot do it f~om anothe~ one. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hea~. hea~! MR. GILBERT: And the conclusion that came feom the Th~one Speech in 198 7: 'As we move fo~ward with our economic and social prog~ams in lhis session until 1987 we must do so with faith and pe~severance that cha~acte~ized ou~ fo~efathers.

Thei~ inhe~ent strength and hard earned knowledge of wind and tide and complexed occu~~ence of human expe~ience assu~ed a good catch, a bountiful ha~vest. My Government pledges to use and maintain that legacy fo~ this and future · gene~ation.' And let me tell you some catch - some legacy! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hea~. hear! MR. GILBERT: That is what we had in our 198 7 Throne Speech if you must get down to it. Now this is an interesting one, 1988 is now down to the po1nt where it is getting smaller all the time, even the quantity is not in it. The quality was never there, but the quantity is not the~e any more now.

We a~e down to the point now where it is hard to hold it. But some interesting highlighted in the No. 3 things w0.re 1988 Throne R41

Speech, M~. Speake~. The Meech Lake Acco~d: I am sure we have all hea~d of the Meech Lake Acco~d and what it has done to Canada. The Premier · came back f~om - as the Member fo~ Burin - Placentia West said yeste~day - the th~ee-hou~ meeting which, to them, had solved all the p~oblems of Canada. MR. TOBIN: Th~ee yea~s. MR. GILBERT: Th~ee-hou~ meeting, you said yeste~day. This th~ee-hour meeting on Meech Lake solved the problems of Canada. You see what it has done, Mr.

Speaker, and fortunately, we came to power to rescue Canada f~om the mess inflicted upon he~ by that bunch of self-se~ving politicians who sat down at Meech Lake in 1988. Anothe~ inte~esting thing in the Th~one Speech of 1988 was a F~ee T~ade Ag~eement. You notice the one thing that makes the Throne Speeches of the previous Government is ~epetition. That is about the only thing the~e. And you notice they went through this p~ocess on the Free Trade Ag~eement again. Then, we come to the by now famous middle distance fleet . Now that was the yea~ we we~e doubly blessed.

The middle distance fleet: all of a sudden, ou~ f ishe~y was going to be saved by the middle distance fleet. MR. TOBIN: You supported it. MR . GILBERT: Nobody on au~ side suppo~ted it. We did not suppo~t it. The middle distance fleet was neve~ supported on our side. We said it was a L42 Ma~ch l3, 1990 Vol XLI waste of the taxpayers' money . Actually, we did not use the word 'Sp~ung' but, now, in retrospect, we can look at it, but that year, surp~isingly enough, M~. Speaker, the middle distance fleet was introduced the same time as Sprung.

So in that Throne Speech of 1988, you had a couple of winne~s, you had the Meech Lake Acco~d, F~ee T~ade, which had been introduced seve~al Th~one Speeches back, and now, the new middle distance fleet. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. GILBERT: The middle distance fleet came in 1988. No doubt, they might be, but at what cost? Can we afford them? And if we have to subsidize them to the point we had to subsidize the middle distance fleet, no, we cannot afford them, Mr. Speake~. And that is where the p~oblem was with the middle distance fleet.

The p~oblem is that it was another Sprung, but we did not have the word 'Sprung' in our dictiona~y, then. Now, we do. That is the diffe~ence. Now, in that Throne Speech of 1988, we went on, and we have Sprung. I do not need to say anything else about Sprung. Sprung is another thing over which that Gove~nment that sat he~e in 1988 will fo~ever have to hang their heads in shame because of what they did. And I am sure that as we go along, we might even hear a bit mo~e about Sprung.

Some of the Members ave~ there might have a few red faces by the time we have heard a bit mot:'e about what is going to happen with Spt:'ung. Let me tell you, thet:'e will be red faces. MS VERGE: No . 3 R42

(Inaudible) for it. MR. GILBERT: Let me tell you, Sprung knew. were there, one of those blindly went like sheep followed your" leader. I about Spt"ung, and you know, that is why you are concet"ned. You who and know and Now, Mr. Speaker", we get down to the quality. Here it is, the Throne Speech of 1990. It was here, Mr. Speaker", that we tt"ied to cort"ect all the ills inflicted on Newfoundland for" the past seventeen yeat"s. The past four" or five years with those fellows, but it is seventeen years. I just go through those five or six Tht"one Speech just to show you really what was happening.

Here it is, in the Throne Speech that came in we had to take some action. As I mentioned earlier in my addt"ess, we looked at all those Throne Speeches which were there before this, and finally this document which is going to lead Newfoundland out of this mot"ass and the depression that was inflicted upon us by the seventeen yeat"s of the Members who are now over there where they rightly belong - they should be a lot further away. Now is the time we have to take some action to cot"rect that, after a previous seventeen yeat"s of inaction.

When I hear Membet"s opposite get up to speak in this debate and they talk about the fisheries, Mr. Speaker", they talk about the fisheries. Now I heat"d the Member for Gt"and Falls (Mr. Simms) get up yesterday, and he was talking about an intet"esting subject, he was talking about the fishet"ies and what he learned in going at"ound the Province. He admitted L43 Mat"ch 13, 1990 Vol XLI the Liberals had put out a Report on the Fishery back in 1985. Now Mr.

Speaker, I think this would be an interesting little document because this document, when I read it and note some of the points that are in it and put it into the t"ecords here this evening, some of the people are going to say, my God I heard that covet"sation coming from those fellows over there this year". They are saying the same things we said in 1985. But the problem was they did not take any action, and that is why the people of Newfoundland took action fout" years later, because thet"e was a Government that did not take any action.

The situation is the same as it was when we wet"e talking about it when we were in opposition. So now we are het"e and we are going to have to try to do something about it. I am just going to read a few extracts from thP. Libet"al Caucus Report that was presented from August to October 1985. The fit"st paragt"aph het"e; the substance of these various submissions to Opposition Members was lhat the inshore fishet"y at that date was precariously situated. That earnings wet"e at a record low. That many were experiencing great difficulty in meeting thP.ir current obligations .

That many foresaw their fall and winter sustenance in serious jeopardy because catches had not been sufficient to qualify for" minimal unemployment insurance protection. Finally, based on most of the summet"'s experience it was not likely that the remaining month or two of the fishing season would substantially alter theit" plight . The impression given was bleak and No. 3 R43

dismal, so much that it was warranted through investigation of any kind obtainable by direct encounter fo~ a short time with as many inshore fishermen as possible. Fishermen at Port Rexton were a worried group of men. The views that the Committee received at Port Rexton was that the crisis in the inshore fishery was a crisis now. Just as we go through this now, Mr. Speaker, I just want to enlighten the people and let them know. Summerfort; that afternoon's meeting was exactly the same, well attended by 250 people.

The people were telling the same story that the fishery was a crisis, and they were not going to be able to live out the winter. So this is the situat .ion that we find. On Fogo Island, the Committee had one of its largest and liveliest hearings. It was not cold water, not slob ice, not dirty water, but the draggers that were the reason why there was no fish. This became the central message of all the hearings. Overfishing by foreign and Canadian draggers was rapidly leading to the despoliation of the stocks and the collapse of the inshore fishery.

Again the collective Committee's impression was that the fishery all over Newfoundland was worse than it had ever been. They were just not isolated pockets of a poor season, the fishery was bad everywhere. Talk about hyprocisy - and this Report was submitted to the Members Opposite when they were in Government.

This year when the thing that we forewarned them about in 1985 really happened, that the fishing L44 March 13, 1990 Vol XLI industry was an abject failure, all of a sudden their answer to it was to accuse the Government of not taking any action, and then to go out and have a Committee go around and visit the fishermen who were affected by the serious crisis in the fishery. I am glad they did not listen to the recommendations that we as Liberals put ln the report that we presented to them in 1985 because maybe they would have been able to cling on by their fingernails.

Maybe if the people has seen it they would have taken some reaction to the crisis that was in the fishery and maybe they would still be there, but I would have been prepared for that. I would have been prepared to slay in opposition another term if the fishermen of Newfoundland had been looked after, Mr. Speaker, but they did not. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker, I have heard Members opposite talk about the inaction of this Provincial Government. For their information, and you have to tell them continually because they do not listen very well.

That was the problem when they were in Government, they did not listen very well, and that is why they are in Opposition now, because they did not listen very well. When we came to power lh is year in May the first thing that the Provincial Minister of Fisheries did was to have a meeting with the Han. Mr. Crosbie and Mr. McKay. They had a meeting and at that meeting