VOL. l PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TruUJSCRIPT BOUSE OF ~SSEMBLY E'OR THE PERIOD WED~~SDAY, JULY 25, 1979 MO. 9

July 25, 1979 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. SPEAKER: MR. ~IESON: Tape No. 270 Order, please! ORAL QUESTIONS: The hen. Leader of the Opposition. Mr.

Speaker, in •riew of the lovely day it is outside,it may be a bit incongruous to be talking about NM- l a long cold Winter,but I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, given the announcement last night that the Federal Parliament is not going to sit until October, which suggests there will be no budget until November at the federal level, and given the fact that the provincial government in its budget statement and other documents has indicated a number of studies are underway on major issues, given the fact also that there is, I assume, still a freeze until at least the 15th. of August on a number of federal/provincial projects, can the minister new indicate to the House whether his officials have any prediction as to the general level of economic activity that we can anticipate in Newfoundland during the coming Fall and Winter months and whether or not he has any forecast to make with regard to anticipated levels of unemployment?

MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Finance. OR. J. COLLINS: The freeze,we understand, at the federal level is purely a temporary affair, that this was put into effect primarily so that new administration in the federal government could find out which projects should be proceeded with, which should be given high priority,and this seems to us not unreasonable.

We do anticipate that the federal government, the new administration, will be fully cognizant of the fact that this area here is perhaps more dependent than many other areas on the activities of the federal government L~ terms of their public works programmes and so on and other projects, and we have every reason to expect that they will be, as was mentioned in the Budget, that they will be very sensitive to thls need. 679

July 25, 1979 Tape ~o. 270 NM - 2 DR. J. COI.UNS: In terms of the economic activity for the ensuinq 1110nths of this fisca~ year, hon. members will recal~ that the Bwiqet did mention that we were anticipatinq sol!letiUnq over a three per cent increase in ec:onolllic activity over last year and I have no information at this tilne to sa.y that we should alter that prediction. That prediction held true up to Thursday of last week and certainly no information has COllie throuqh to sa.y that it should be a..lter·ed at this point in tilne. ME!.. SPEAKER (Simms): A supplementary, the hen. Leader of the Opposition. 680

JW.y 25, 1979 Tape 271 PK - 1 MR. .nua:ESON: Mr. Speaker, I am not arguing with the wisdom or otherwise of the freeze, althouqh I think the hon. Minister of Finance (Dr. J. Collins) is mere sympathetic than his federal colleague is apparently because he has been saying that it is ridiculous to hold up these projects in Newfoundland.

What I have, however, asked the hon. minister if his officials -a.nd yesterday we talked about various planning aspects that are 1 allegedly, and I am sure are in place in the government now by this time, which is the last part of July; weather they are sympathetic or not in Ottawa means that in fact a lot of projects are clearly, unmistaka.bly 1 delayed. And,as the Federal Minister of :'inance (Mr. J.

Crosbie) has said, the short construction season is a serious handicap in Newfoundland - now have his officials given theat 3 per cent, I believe, or something over 3 per cent projection of grawt:h in the Provincial Produc~ ·.mat I am asking is, is there something more tangible that the hon. minister can say with regard to where we are going to be in January and February of this coming year in terms of the levels of (

a) economic: activity in Newfoundland generall~· ~ and also how those will be translated into 1 obviously the lDC!St serious question of all, are we going to have record h.igh levels of unemployment'? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: 1-'.r. Speaker, one of the initiatives from the federal government that did impact on this Province in the past year W2S high'Wily construction.

Now this was not only at a diminished rate of activity, bllt it was at an increased rate of activity, so that this will certainly have good effects and will continue to keep up our rate of economic activity and employment in th.i:s Province. So even though it is regrettable that there are freezes in certain areas,in that major area I do not think we are affected adversely in any great degree. 681.

J Uly 25, 197 9 Tap e 271 PK - 2 Or. J. Col.lins: And I woUld just like to empl;la.size aqain that the freeze tbat i.s on1 we have every expectation in the very near future t:ha.t sc:ne if not al.l t!lose it~ l:!:l.!!t e~~ ~!'o.ie P"=C''V:i.ncE> wi.ll crm<e aut frail Ullderneath that freeze. In other words, the freeze in those respects will not J::e on to an extend in time that will .have an adverse impact on us. In terms of employment 1 I think the hen.

Leader of the Opposition will recall that the fiqures .for the first quarter of this fiscal year, the 1979-1980 fiscal year, did show that there was an upturn in employment, and if that was annualized -and I think there may have been some misconception about this; I think the hon. member for Burqeo-Bay d'Espoir (Mr. SiJnutonsl may have been a little bit in error in his rea~&rks on this the other day- that the employment picture for the fi--st quarter of 1979-1980 if that were annualized it wcul.d indicate that we would have something like 8, 300 extra jobs in the Province, 682

July 25' 1979 Tape No. 272 AH-1 DR. COLLINS: as opposed to the same rate if annualized for the first quarter of 1978-1979 would have been have been 5,000 extra jobs. So that employment in the Province, the seatistics available at the present time indicates that employment in the Province is increasing at a good rate and we see no reason at this point in time to suggest that that good rate will not persist for the rest of this fiscal year. MR. JAMIESON: MR. SPEAJCER: (Simms) Leader of the Opposition. MR. JAMIESON: A supplementary. A supplementary. The hon. Mr.

Speaker, I fully understand and welcome when new jobs are created. The hon. Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) has been talking employment. I have been talking about unemployment 1 and I do not believe that any economist would agree that you can annualize a single quarter and say that is what it is going to be.

That is why I say that it is a projection ahead that surely any Deparbnent of Finance must be doing to say "Where are we going to be?" Given the known rate of activity, given the known seasonality of the situation, given the failure to start ~cme of the projects because of the freeze,there must be someone in the Department of Finance who has said that thiS Winter the rate is going to be :c Now I think at the moment it is fifteen-point-something or in that neighbourhood. Can we look forward to a higher rate than that,whether it is seasonalized or whatever word the hon. gentleman wishes to use?

But I think it is important that we know now, given the fact that we are not going to see, clearly, out of either the federal government or out of the planning which hen. members opposite are doing any major new developments in the current year - and I mean going through to next March - is it possible for the hon. the Minster of Finance (Dr.Collinsl to give us a figure as to what he expects the level of unemployment is going to be during the Winter? MR. SPEAXER: The hen. minister. 683

July 25,1979 Tape N'o. 272 JI..H-2 OR.COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Opposition wants quite specific informa.tion and of course I had no indication ~~at this was going to be required today and to get that type of vary detailed informatl.on I would need to J.nStruct tile · officials in the Departlllent of Finance to supply me with the facts and figures. I certainly will undertake to do so to ~'te extent that this is possible. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) Mountains. Hon. member for Torngat MR.iiAIU!EN: I have a supplementary to the question, Mr. Speaker.

I want to direct my question tQ the Minister of Interqovern111ental Affairs (Mr.Peckfordl. I was wondering if he could tell the hon. House if the OllEE agreement between the federal government and the provincial government as pertaining to fishery development along the Labrador Coast has been signed or will be signed in the near future? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Premier. PREMIER PEc:FORD: Mr. Speaker, in response to that question, there is" a number of agreements dealing with th~ Labrador Coast, the main one is the Coastal Labrador agreement which is new under negotiation with DREE and which 684

July 25, 1979 Tape 273 EC - l PREMIER PECXFORD: we hope to sign very scon. And in that aqnu.nt I think there are a nlJ!IIber of fishery development Opportunities.· de.,.lo~nts, and I guess that is what the hon •. the -.tier u refarrinq to. And if it is that ~astal Labrador aq:reement that he is referrinq to, I would like to advise the bon. member that !leqotiations are prac:eedinq ve:ry well on that aareeamnt and we are hopeful to have it siqned this year. MR. NEARlC: - MR. SPEAICER.: (Simms) for Lal'oi.l.a. MR. liiEARr: Mr. Speaker.

A supplea.ntary 1 the bon. the meml::ler Sir, in c:annec:ticn with the question that the bon. the Leader of the Opposition asked that b.as to do with the aqreement on cuttinq the t:Uaber that wu dulaqed by the spruce budworm, is that proqr- qoinq ahead? Is there any employment presently as a result. of that aqreement? If nat, wb.an can we expect a number of people to be employed cuttinq the timi::ler that was damaqed by the spruce budworm1 MR. SPEAICER: Forests. MR. !«l.RGAN: The hen. the ltiniater of Lands and Mr.

Spealcar, a nlDIIber of prajecta are onqoinq araund the Province in the IIICistly forestry thinninq prajec:ts to aata. TeDders have been <:a.l.l.ed. You have prab&bly seen tile tenders in the recent loc:a.l. p~rs fer a nUIIIber of projects in connection with sal.vaqinq of dalllaqed tilllber staJlds. We are also looJUnq at the poasil:lility of salvaqinq so- of the d-qed timber in the areu where we b.m some rec:ent fires thi5 year, includinq these projects under the present aqreement u well. MR. SPEAKER: MR. FLIGHT: The bon. the member fer Windsor - Buc:h.ma. Mr.

Speaker, I have a qWtstion or tva for the Minister of Lands and Fcrestsr it sprinqs f:raa the question asked by the bon. the Leader of the Oppoai tion. In response to a question a f- aays ago witb reqard. to a federal aqreement ai9J18d for $11 million, the Illinister 685

July 25, 1979 Tape 273 EC- 2 MR. FLIGH'l': l:cldad to bell ttle th&t p&rticul~ proqrUIDe and talked ~ut the g-reat $55 lllil.llon proqr- that he wu now Dago'l:iad.no; anci azpecteci to b.&v. siqneci a.ay tlJ. which would ila.ve tha effect of fundinq all the v~ious proqr-• that h.e and th.e Premier ADDOW1CIId that would take plac:e in forestry aDd. be resource-bued and jab ~tive. I m. wondarinq if the min.istar would indicate to the House U t11at $55 llllllian. proqr..-· tb&t he talked ilbout will be affected by the fraeze that h.u just been alluded to by the han.. the Le&der of th.e Opposition? MR.

SPEAXER: (Simms) '1'h8 hon. th.e Minister of Landa and !'orasta. MR. !«)RaJ~~: Mr. Speaker, first of a.l.l, in reply to tile praUIIble of ~t question, this minister dces not in any way belittle th.a $ll.5 m:Uli.on raceiftd for th.e forestry lal:lour-intensive proo;r-. In fact, we appreciate the funds f%OIIL Ott»ra and we are look:inq forv&rd to IIIAilY good l~our-i:nteui.ve projects over th.e next number of liiCnths, in fact. th.e aext n!Der of years.

On the other aqre~t, the ~erilll o'VIIrall forastry developant aqreeD~~U~.t for the Province, th&t is now ia th.e final stllqe of negotiation and there ia no indication 686

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 274 so - l :a. J. ::a.~: of any freeze in Ottawa going to affect t:le final stages with regard.s to a final agreement being reached SOIIIe~a over tile nax1; nUI!Wer of wee~ • MR. G. E'I.IGHT: i.fR. SPEAKER: (S.imms) ii imisor - Sucha.u. :~. G. FLIGHT: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary. The han. member for The minister has indicated that this particular $55 million agreement will not be subject to a freeze.

Just in the possibility it may iruieed 1 that the minister might net· kn::lw exactl.y what he is ta.l.k:i.nq about right =w, would it be fair to i.zxiicate to the liouse ".olhether or net he will see that particular agreement being considered a priority as referred to by the Minister of Finance (Or. J.

Colli.ns)7 The Minister of Finance ind.icated in answer t;o the questioning that there would be cartain programmes that may !:)e lifted frcm the freeze 1 or taken out from under the fraeze as a result of a priority given to that programme. iiould the minister be prepared to guess or iiid.ica.te to ~e Bouse wbet!ler h.e would believe that particular agreement would indeed be qi ven priority, particularly on the basis of wba.t it is suppose to accaapl.ish and that is the job creative aspect that b.i.s party and b.i.s government lean :so heavily oo w~th:in this past mcnth? MR. SPEAKER: MR. J. MORGAN: The h.on.

Minister of Lands and Forests. Mr. Speaker, because of the argumenta.l manner tha question was put forward that I am net fully aware of what I am saying is co=ect or not, I refuse to answer the question. MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: LaPoile. MR. S. NEARX: Supplementary, Mr. SpeUE~r. Supplementary, the hon. member for I want to follow up on the line of questioning started by rey colleague, the Leader of the Opposition. (Mr. o. Jamieson). I •.rant to ask the han. Minister of Fi.nance, Sir, if 687

July 251 1979 Tape No. 274 SD - 2 MR. s. ~= he anticipates d%astic increases in the social assistance :ells as a result of the Government of Canada. increasiuq the qualification period for these who applied for unemployment i.nsura.nce benefits? iihat effect is that goinq to nave on Newfowxila.nd Ulli wiJ.l it in any way d%astically affect the social assistance payments that will :Ce made from now, sa.y 1 to the e!ld of the fiscal year? MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) DR. J. COLLINS: The hon. Minister of Finance. Mr.

Speaker 1 I would suggest that question might be more f.ru.i. tfully directed towards the Minister of Social Services (Mr. T. Hickey) and if the hon. minister wculd wish to . respond to the hon. !llellll:ler' s question I would certainly give way to him. MR. SPEAlCER: MR. T. lUCKEY: The hon. Minister of Social Services. Mr. Spealcar 1 as I heard tbe question , the hon. ml!lllber wishes to lalcw the difference - !o!R. S. NEARY MR. T . iiiCXEY : goinq to have on numi::lers - MR. S • NEARY : MR. T. iiiCXEY: What effect •• - or what eftect the c:hanqes in O'IC are Social assistance recipients. OK.

It is difficult, :ir. Speaker, to give any accurate figures. There are projected fiqures or fiqures that nave been used by the Federal Gove.rtllllent and I can not say that my officiala agree with those fiqures. I can llQt give the bon. member the fiqures in terms of the llUIIIbers of persons :Cut I can give him the dollar vaJ.ue 3lld he ca.n 688

July 25, 1979 Tape ~o. 275 DW - l MR. !UCXEY: judge from that, and approximately S3 million to $4 million additional as suggested by federal officials. Now as I said earlier, ~. Speaker, in prefacing my remarks 1 my officials do not agree with those figures; they believe that those figures are liberal to say the least -small '1' -we believe not as accurate as indeed they could be. I think federal officials are looking at the worst possible affects and,as we know the situation in Newfoundl.and a!!.d as they do not know i t ,we do not agree on those figures. MR. S. NEARY: A supplementary, ~r. Speaker. MR.

SPE~R (SL'IMS): A supplementary, the hon. member for LaPoile. !!R. S. m:ARY: I am not sure if I understood the hon. c:Jentleman correctly. !s the hon. gentleman sayinq that the govern­ ment of canada, the fiqures they have projected show a decrease of S3 million to S4 million unemployment benefits cominq into the Province or is that added on to the minister's welfare assistance that will be paid out, the payments that will be made 1 because the loss from Ottawa will be much more,vould it not? MR. SPEAKER: Hon. minister. MR. S:ICKEY: ~.

Speaker, I am dealing with figures in terms of increase cost to my department or to my budget, my Estimates. The figures in terms of overall effects is quite different and I am not referring to that. MR. SPEAKER: MR. F. ROWE: The hon. member for Trinity - Bay de Verde. Mr. Speaker, I have a quesuon for the Premier, Sir, and I do not mean to be in any way prov6cative or argumenta- ti ve in this particular question. It comes as a deep concern with respect to the possibility of an inshore fishermen's strike in the Province.

I would like the Premier, if he could indicate to hon. members in the House what proqress has been made with respect to the proposals the government has made to the Fish Trades Association and to the 689

J uly 25, 1979 MR. P. ROWE: Worker!' union? Tape No . 275 OW - 2 Newfoundland Fishermen,Food and Allied I ask it knowinq full well the sensitivity and the deli;ac:y of the pa..-tic:ular question. r wcnder iJ: '!..~ ~remier ::e\!!c crive 1lS il proqress report up to date. MR. SP!:Ala!:R: (SI:MMS) The non. Premier. PSMD:R PEcn'ORD: Mr. Speaker, I have been c:lose to the situation this IIIDminCJ and durinq dimler time. I think perhaps the hon. Minister of Labour and Manpo-r (Mr.

Dinn) c:.m qive you some of the spec:i£ic:s because he has been IIIDnitorinq the situation while I was in meetinqs and so on this moraine;. so I will ask the Minister of LabOur and ~r if he could brinq the hon. member and the House up to date on that very important issue. !om. SPEAICE_R: Manpower. MR. OINN: The hen. Minister of Labour and Yes, Mr. Speaker, meetinqS have been held since last Friday, over the Wll!ekend and last niqht t~ntil about ll:OO. 690

·. .1\Uy 25, 1979 Tape No. 276 NM - l MR. DINN: There were many items that were resolved at these meetings. There wi~l be meetings again this afternoon. Some of the people representing the inshore fishermen and the trades - Mr. Bill Wel~s representing the trades- have to go back to their groups with certain proposals.

As the hon. member would know1 these do not just involve what fish prices should be, whether it is eighteen cents or twenty-one cents. ~here are different categories of fish, etc., many, many categories ~;at are being discussed,and many of them have been resolved to this point in time 1 but there are still several outstL~g items and 1 as I said 1 a meeting was held,I believe,again between twelve and two o'clock this afternoon.

Mr. we~~s had to go back to the operators of the fish plants and he wil~ be then convening another meeting sometime this afternoon and hopeful~y tomorrow we will have a little more to_ report on it. But that is about all I can say at this point in time. Things are going along fairly well and we hope to get a resolution to the situation. MR. F. ROWE: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): A supplementary, the hon. member for Trinity-Bay de Verde 1 then ~~e hen. member for LaPoile. lm. F.

ROWE: The minister may not wish to answer this question on this back and forth negotutions with the Newfoundland Fishermen, Food and Allied Workers Union and the Fish Trades Assocution 1 but is the minister reasonably satisfied that the negotiations, for want of a better word, are going along smoothly enough in terms of the time frame of Auqust 15th., set for that time and date, is the minister relatively satisfied with the progress to date on that situation? MR. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. Mr.

Speaker, nobody can predict how negotiations will end up but I can say that I am relatively optimistic at this point in time. I would not want to say anymore really because there is a news blackout on the situation and hopefully this afternoon 691.

JUl.y 25, 1979 Tape No. 276 NM- 2 MR. DINN: or toiiiQrrow we will get a resolution to the situation. Al!.ywa.y the discussions are ongoing. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : '!'he !;on. l!lelllber for taPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is for the hon. gentleman wi1o just took his seat, Sir, the Minister of Manpower. I understand fz:om the news media that the issues involved in this dispute are IIIUCh more ~ wages, that there is Sdmethinq that has been seething beneath the surface for some t:iJne and that is the question of thfi!

IIIUlti-nationals moving into Newfoundland and creating a monopoly situation, Is Chis one of the itel!IS that is on the agenda that is being di.scussed with the trade and with the union at .the present t:Une, because that ill a mw;:h broader subject that 692

JUly 25, 1979 Tape 277 l'K - l Mr. Neary: would take a considerable period of time to resolve, I would assume 1 but is that one of the items that is being discussed at the present time? MR. SP:EAJ:ER (SIMMS) : MR. DINN: The han. Minister of Labour and Manpower. Mr. Speaker, as all members will be aware, there is a news blackout on these negotiations. There are, as r said before, many items that are being discussed 1 not the least of which is fish prices and the different categatories. And I would rather not get into the details of a.ll the items that are being discussed.

As I say,I am optimistic that we will get a resolution to the problems that we are facing. Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Windsor­ Sue hans (Mr. Flight) may have a question. MR. FLIGHT: Sit down, 'Jerry' . MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I have some important questions to direct to the Minist~ of Lands and Forests (Mr. Morgan), questions related to the recent forest fire in the Glovertown-Gambo area, and the answers to which are vital to residents in the area and possibly to the entire Province.

And as a starter, maybe the minister could co111111ent on the present status of the fire, whether it is completely extinguished or whether tbere are still some hot spots, and therefore some danger that the fire could start up again, and whether there is still a close surveillance of the area by the Forest Fire services personnel? MR~ SPEJUCER: The hon. Minister of Lands and Forests. MR. MORGAN: Well, Mr.

Speaker, as of a few days ago the fire, of course, was brought under control, and we have kept about approximately forty-five to fi£ty men in the past three days,including today,working on the hot spots to make sure that they all extinguished, and we are hoping to have most of these hot spots controlled and extinguished today or tomorrow . MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. 693

Jul.y 25' 1979 MR. SPEAlCER (SIMMS) : Nova. MR. WSH: ___ ... ..__- ----- .... _,_ -·=-"---- ·-·· Tape 277 A supplementary, the hon. IIIIBIIIber for Terra ?K - 2 I I wonder if the minister can indicate to the House· what plans in the short-te:ca or what illmediate steps the government has taken with respect to sa.lvaqinq the t.imber destroyed by the fire in the area? And seconql:y ., for the lonq-te:ca,c:an the minister indicate wether the qovernment has initiated any plans with respect to reforestation in the area?

And I just want to make a brief comment; I think in the past there has been a tendency to leave areas destroyed by forest fires Artd I believe that mor~a often than not that wen this is the case that what we qet is a regrowth of hardwoods, alders, wild cheery trees, and the lilce. trees for which at this maDent we have no viable, <!!:Onomic use. So the question is , I ...onder whether the lll.inister 694

July 25 ,1979 Tape No. 278 AH-1 ~~· can indicate whether there is a plan for reforestation in the area? l'.R. SP::AKER: (Silllms) The non. minister. Mr. S~eAker, the situation reqard.inq burnt tilnber is ,_first of al1 1 in that one fire area mcst of the tilrber that was burnt over '"'as timber that was already damaged by the budworm. There are still some good timber stands left despite the fact that it was qenerally burnt over. 'n1e experts in the forestry field tell me that they can salvage that timber and use it within a two year period.

The forestry officials are now in t.'le process, in fact,tomorrow morning meeting with ~rice (NfldJ 1 the woods operations ~anager and others in the oompany 1 to discuss possible ways of salvaging the damaged tilllber. We have also met with a pulpwood export eompany 1 Labrador Forest Products, I think, the name of t.'le company is ; it is owned by Mr. Van !leek. We have held meetings with him, E!e has a technique that is used in other areas , except in our Province to date,in salvaging timber stands dulaqed by fire.

So we are looting ,at every possible means of salvaging the tUr.ber over· the next two year period including involving the private sector. MR. LUSH: supplementary. MR. SPEJUI:ER: then the hen. member for Bonavista-North. MR. LUSH: Mr.

Speaker, one final A final supplementary, and I wonder if the minister could indicate to the House whether or not his department has undertaken to find out just how many sawmill operators and loggers in the area loat equipment and wood supplies as a result of the fire, and what stepS hi.!! depa.rtlnent have taken to insure that no sawmill operator or no loqqer is fo=ed out of business as a result of losses incurred by this fire? MR. SPEJUI:ER: Lands and Forests. MR. MORGJI.N: The non. ~nister of Mr. Speaker, first of all with regard to private sawmill operations 1 it is the responsibility 695

July 25, 197 9 Tape No. 278 AH-2 MR. MORGAN: of these operato~s to c~ their own inst~rance and therefore we have no l.i.abili ty in this case as a government to the replacement of the sa111111.i.l.l and sawmill equipment. eouever, there is a situation in connection - ~. NEAil:!: Answer the question! MR. MORGAN: Mr. Spealcer. if the hon. Burp from La.Pcile (Mr. Neazy) could keep quiet! MR. SP!:ADR (SIMMS) : SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPENtEll: question. MR. MORGAN: Order, :;»lease ! Oh, oh! Order, please! The hon. minister may answer the Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman who asked the questions is concerned because it is in his own riciinq and in ccnnect.ic:m with a number of uwmill operators who lost their equipment, in some cases, and in other cases lost their wood supply that they had cut last Winter and was burnt in the fi:re whereby they borrowed funds, in some cases thr~qh a :bankinq ;aeans, and other sawmill operators borrowed throuqh the Rural. DeVelop!llent loan plan available to them l.ast w±nter. What it means is that they borrbwed funds and spent the funds in 696

JUly 25, 1979 Tape No. 279 ow - l ~. MORGAN: cuttinq a supply of wood for their sawmill operations this Summer have now lost ~~is and theref~~ we have to lock at if we are liable in my way or form to assist them. I met with a number of the operators to date;there is no indication given to them what we will do. All I said to them to date is that if we get in'lnllved in salvaqinq the existinq damaged timber stands,we will give the local operators priority with reqards to work in the area. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : MR. !. • STIRLING: The hon. member for Bonavista ~orth. Yes, that answers ~~• question.

Thera seemed to be some confusion. We are talking about Price, BOwaters · md shippinc;. If the minister can assure me that the people who had sawmill operations will be given the first pricrity 1 as he has said,then there is no need of further comment. Would he fellow that through to say that the people who were affected by the forest fire in the 1960s, that whole area, and the people now affected by this forest fire should be given first priority for jobs in the actual salvage operation? MR. SPEAKER: Hen. minister. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, in reply to it1 all I can say is if we get involved in a woods salvaqinc; operation in that general area, the Gambo/Gl017ertown area, we would he givinq the local people the preference with regards to employment and that,of course,would take in the cateoory of the people he is talking about wile were affected in the fires of the past. MR. SPEA!':ER: Order, please! The time for Oral Questions has expired. 697

JUl y 25, 19 79 Tape No. 279 ow - 2 PRESENTING REPORrS BY 5nN'DING AND Sl'ECIM. COMMITTEES Mit. SPEAKER ($rMMs) : MR. MlU!SH.lU.L : 'l'he hen. President of the council. Mr. Speaker,I wish to qive the report of the Stri.king CeDi ttee established pursuant to 698

July 2S, 1979 TAP8 280 :e:c - 1 MR. MAliSBALl.: s andinq Order IU ( &.1 whi.ch -t yesterday, but at the s- time I 'oiOuld hope to be al:lle to brinq in referral of the varioua estilu.tas to these coaaittau . th-.l.vea in tha intanst of gettinq the Eatilll&ta ccmaitt.ea goinq to-ormw, but I aa so only, of course, with le&- of the S:ouae,.i.:.t beinq Private ~ Dey, itMJ.:, aad. I wond.er whether I would h.&._ lu- to ...,_ the =-ittau Uld. tom- the Estimates to the =-i.ttaes themaelws? MR. SPEUZR: (S~) !he ben. the Leader of the Opposition. ~.

Speaker, I aa nat sura th&t no probl- with tha. bui.c p~iticn; we ha,. already diacuaaecl it at gnat l.aaqtb.. I aauat say, I wu nat n.n that he wu anticipatinq - or did I llliaunde~d !WI - th&t the =--ittlllea would actuall.y start -tinq tolllo:aow? IIR. SPEU:Ell: The beD. the Pruidaut of the i:ounci.l. No, Mr. Speaker, vbat I 'oiOul.d llcpa would the COlonial .Bui.ldi.Dq for the pazpoaes of settinq forth th.U procedures aad. e.lectinq their c::hai rmeu, but th.y would. 110t necessarily start tomrrow, MR. NEAJlr: What Qa you want leave to aa IIOW? brlnq the mtion on. It bainq Private Melllbar's D&y, you s-, Mr.

Spe&lc.er, - do DOt vet to trespass aad ll&ither em we trespass, nor would ve wish to trespass on Privata *-bar's Day. But all I wUh tiel be able to do is to Eatilu.taa be referred. to those coaaittaes th-..e.lvas. MR. SPEAEZR: 'l'he beD. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. JAMIESON: I do not want to ~murp the authority and the riqhts of 1ll'f Bouse Leader. I a111 just sayinq on the first part, no difficulty, but I lla- not had an opportlmity, and I do not think the House ' Leader h.as, to see vheth.er we would. be available or the necessary members 699·,

July 25, l979 Tape 280 EC -2 MR. JAMIESON: wou.Lcl be avail.able tomcrrow 1110%lling, so pe:haps - will have to consult on timing- on that. IUl. SPEAKER: CS~) 'Iba b.on. the Preaiclent of the Council. 'l'bat is c:ertainl.y flexillle, Mr. Speaker. But I woulcl l.Ue to put t.l1a znation .mel we can see as we go on. MR. iCBEMS: Another of. our infamous consultations .behind. the curtain. Thaze is traftidcinq to be done. !Gl. SPEJUCER: :ay leave? !Gl. NEAl!r : !Gl. liOBERI.'S : bow - = the House, Kr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: qraa.taci. No secret deals! tio sec:zet deals!

Sec:ret deals sec:retly arri ~ at is Order, plaa.se! I unders~ci that leave has been The hem. the President of the Council. !Gl. MAliSHALL: The c:o=aittee -t yesterd,ay, Mr. Speaker, UDder Standing Order 84 (

a) anc1 it wu dec:i.cieci to rac:o~ci to the House that the Standi.Dq Coaaittaes of the !louse 1mcie.r Stanciinq Order 84 (

a) will act for this year as the Eatim&ta c:oiDi ttaea unciar S tanciinq Orcler ll7. It. is to be lmderstooci, of course, that this is for this year only and noazt year - III&Y have a Stimciing Ccmaittee c:omplumlt different from the Eatim&ta =-i ttMia t:naa.elves. So pursuaDt to Sec:tion ll7, Mr.

Speaker, I znave that the following constitute the Gove:cment Sen'ic:es Co=aittae which will in tb.ia. the !'i.rst Session of the 'rhi.rty-lllihth General Aaaembly, c:onsi.diar and report ~ l!:atim&taa whi.dl may be refernci to them, .mci the GoveZ2maD.t Services Co=aittae be comprised of tha b.on. the 1118111be:r:s for lti.J,l)ricie (Mr. R.. Aylvarci), St. Geoz:qes (Mr. G. ~-1, E:a.qle River (Mr. E. Hi.scoc:k), Burin - Plac:entia West (M.r. o. !iollettl 1 Terra Nova (M.r. T. I.uahl , Stephenville. (Mr. F. Staqql .mci Bay of Islands (Mr. r.. Woodrow) • I further znave 1 Mr.

Speaker, that pursum~.t to Stanciinq Order ll·7 1 the followinq constitute the !lasource Co=aittee which. wi.llsimilarly c:onsi.cier anci :report on the Estimates wh.ic:h lii&Y be :z:aferreci to it:: the han. the llll!mbe:r:s for St. John's West (M.r. !i. Barrett) , Conc:epti.on Bay South (M.r. J. Butt) , 700

JW.y 25, 1979 Tape 280 MR. MARSHALL: S:ubour Main - Bell Island (Mr. N. Doyle), Windsor - Bw:hana (Mr. G. Fllqht), Placentia. iMr. w. i'&1:tanonJ, :aaie Verte - whi;i;e iay ii:U'. T. i<icH.o1.1t.i , EC - 3 Trinity - Bay cia Verde (Mr. F. RQwa), Fortune Hermi.taqa (Mr. D. Stewart) c.4 Bona.vista North (Mr. L. Sterlinq). I further IIIDve, Mr. Spe~er, pl.lrSuant to Standinq Ordar ll7, that the followinq constitute the Social Servic:as Coua:i.ttae to con•ider and report upon the Estimates which may !:Ia referred to it UD<ier Standinq Order ll7: the hon. the 1118111bers for Humber Wast (Mr. R. Baird), St. Bube (Mr. T.

Bennett), St. John's North (Mr. J. carter), Port de Grave (Mr. R. COJ.liu), Port au Port (Mr • .J. Hccidarl, St. John's Centra (~r. P. Mc:Ni.c:bclasl, E.xploita (Dr. ll. or--y), Foqo (Mr. R. 'rulkl and 'l'arnqat Mountains (Mr. G. Warren). And I IIID,. that the IIIDtian :be rac:ai wd. MR.. SPEAJCER: (Simms) It has bean moved and seconded that the report <?f the St::ikinq Co.U.ttaa ba concuned with. Aqraed. Those in favaur, 'Aye', contrary, 'Nay', carried. 'l'he llon. ttle President of the Council. Mr.

SpeAker, I liiDV'e p1.1r5u.ant to Standinq Order ll7, tn.&t the followinq heads of Estillatas :be referred to the followinq c:Olllllli ttees: to the Resource Colllllli ttae 701 :

July 25, l979 Tape No. 281 NM - l MR. MARSHALL: to, the Resource Committee, Department of Mines and Enerqy, Reading XI; Industrial Development, Reading XV; ·Department of Fisheries, Reading lCJV; Department of Rural, Agriculture and Northern Development, Heading XVI; Department of Forestry, Resources and Lands, Heading XII, and Department of Tourism, Recreation and Culture, Heading XIII.

I further move that the followina Heads of estimates be referred to the Social Services Committee, the Department of Justice, Heading VII; Department of Health, Heading X; Department of Education, Reading VI; Department of Consumer Affairs and Environment, Heading IX; and the Department of Social Services, Heading VIII.

I further move that the following estimates be referred to the Government Services Committee, the Department of Municipal Affairs and ~ousinq, Reading XIX; Department of Public Works and Services, Reading XVIII; Department of Labour and Manpower, Heading V; Department of Finance, Heading !V; and the Department of Transportation and Communications Heading XVII. MR. SPEAIQ;;R (Simms): Rouse Leader carry? MR. ROBERI'S: MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed that the motion by the hon. The hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. I consent, ~- Speaker. Carried.

Before moving on there are some distinguished visitors in the gallery. I am asked to recognize, two former MHA' s and ministers, Mr. Ed Maynard and Harold Collins, who I believe have just left, former MBA, Mr. Myles Murray, a minister for many years, now a Judge of the District Court, and Mr. Brian Mulrooney, President of the Iron Ore Company of Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear: 702

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 281 NM- 2 NOTICES OF MOTION: MR. SPEAl<ER (Simms l : The hen. member for LaPoile. ~. Sp~ak~r, I give notice tha~ I will on tomorrow introduce the following resolation~

WHEREAS 54.3 per cent of oar popalation is under the age of twenty­ fear years; and

WHEREAS we can no longer approach the problems of oar yoath in an anplanned, haphazard way; and

WHEREAS government programmes and policies to date have failed to ~:each oat to oar young people in any meaningful way, and

WHEREAS yoang people are losing faith in the system and in their leaders to do anything worthwhile about increasing vandalism and teenage crime, teenage drinking, illegal use of drugs, inadequate sport and recreation programmes and facilities, questionable training and retraining programmes and anemployment amongst the young, and

WHEREAS in a good many communities throughout Newfoundland and Labrador teenagers have very little to do except roam the streets and hang out in doorways of shops along the main streets of their towns; THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that immediate steps be taken to form a special committee of the aoase of Assembly to review z:eports and studies that have been done over the years on the I?roblems of our young people, examine existing policies and programmes involving yoang people by both government and private agencies, and make recommendations as quickly as possible for a new, fresh approach on a Provincewide basis for the development of 703

July 25, 1979 MR. NEARY: Tape No. 281 a master plan designed to reach out to our young people in a more s~gnificant way than our dismal past has portrayed. ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS SEEN GIVEN: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MRS. VERGE: The hon. Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, I wish to reply to questions raised in this ~on. Bouse last week by the hon. member NM- 3 for Port au Port, Mr. Hodder, on the topic of school bus transportation. I will take the points in the order in which they were raised. The first one, the possibility of contracts not being tendered for as long as ten years.

The department acknowledges that this situation could exist, although the department has no records to substantiate that this is t.."le case. The purpose of public tendering is to provide an equal opportunity to persons interested in providing school bus service and to keep down costs. The decision to retender or continue at the same price, under the applicable regul.ations is that of the school bus operator. I can understand that this may not be satisfactory from some operators' points of view. Some operators may prefer to be able to negotiate an increase each year rather than have to go to tender.

However, if this were permitted some other bus owner could always argue that the service could be provided at a lesser cost. The second point, the possibility of deterioration of buses. School buses have to be inspected by a mechanic employed by a certified service station or garage three times in each school year, in August, December and April. 704 :

July 25, 1979 Tape 282 PK - l Mrs. Verae: After being inspected by a mechanic the vehicle is further inspected by the ~~ before a certificate of mechanical :itr.ess is issued. !f at ~~y time a school boa~d is concerned ever the mechanical fitness of a school bus,or if the department receives a complaint frcm any one about the condition of a bus,the Motor Registration Division will,upon request,send an inspector to investigate, and if the bus is found to be unsafe it will be ordered off the road. The third point: Driver education courses for school bus drivers.

Onder a contracted bus operation, it is difficult to make it mandatory for drivers to attend the courses a school board may offer in respect of driver education or first aid. The department has considered and discussed with the Motor Registration Division requiring drivers to take a course in defensive drivring before becoming eligible for a school bus licence. However, the Motor Registration people feel that this woqlq not be practical, mainly because of the large turnover of drivers from year to year. This year the department has revised the school bus transportation contract to include an

article stating ~~t contractors will co-operate with the school board in encouraging their drivers to attend driver education or first aid courses that the board may arrange during the year. School buses are, as stated before, inspected by certified mechanics. Inspectors employed by the Motor Registration Division perform spot examinations as a check against ~'le effectiveness of inspections being performed by garages certified for this purpose.

The last point, that of standees: Government has been concerned over the regulations permitting school buses to carry up to lS per cent more pupils ~~n the rate of seating capacity. An improvement in this area was announced in the Budget Speech last week. Standees will now only be permitted on school buses in areas 705

July 25, 1979 Tape 282 PK - 2 Mrs. Verqe: less. were the speed limit is SO kilometers per hour or I have a copy of the written response which I will make available to the hen. member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder). SOME BON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (S:IMMS): MR. aABRY: Rear, hear! The hen. Minister of Mines and Energy. The Leader of the Opposition yesterday, Mr. Speaker, asked a question concerning the impact of the OPEC oil prices on the rate application of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER: MR. HODDER: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. A point of order. I understand, Mr.

Speaker, that I can respond to the Minister of Education. MR. RIDEOUT: No, no that is not in order. MR. SP!:JIKER: No. Order, please! There is no response allowed under Notices or to Questions For Which Notice Has Been Given. You have the opportunity under Question Period to ask a question. The hen. Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Leader of the Opposition asked a question as to the ~ct of OPEC oil prices upon the rate application of The ~ewfoundland and Labrador Hydro, which is presently before the Public: Utilities Board.

The rate increases of OPEC will not have an impact upon the rate application or,in fac:t;upon the prices to be charged by consumers in the Province 1 i.E the present federal policy with respect to subsidization of oil prices within Canada remains the same. And the rate application is premised upon the present poli~J which anticipates,! believe,a further increase on the part of the federal government as of January,! believe. January l would be the next planned increase. MR. JAMIESON: If it works out with the OPEC group.

MR. 3ABRY: That has been ~ken into consideration in the application which is filed.• Now,if the federal policy changes, Mr. Speaker, 706

JuJ.y 25, l 979 Tape 282 ?K - 3 Mr. Barry: this would have an impact ~on the price to be paid by the consumer, and WoUld be reflected ,in the price escalation,or at the present time there is no indication, a.s far ilS Newtoundl<Lnd Hydro is conce.rne4, that there will be any chanqe between now and when these prices wOuld come into effect. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 707

July 25, 1979 Tape ~to. 283 OW - 1 ORDERS OF THE DAY ~R. SPEJIKER (SIMMS) : I ~gh~ poin~ out that MOtion 35 has been reprinted on the Order Paper in error. This motion was dealt with last week so we will tod~y deal, being Private ~ember's Oay1 wi~~ Motion No. 36. The hon. member for St. John's North. SOME RON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. J. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is necessary for me to read the resolution. It has been on the Order Paper for a number of weeks 110w.

We are nov opera tin..- under the new rul.es and as I understand it, I have twenty minutes to introduce this motion and twenty minutes to sum up what other people have said at the end of the debate, after two sitting days or two Wednesdays. It is going to be ver1 diffiCillt, I think, Mr. Speaker, to handle such a wide-ranging topic with so little time but I will do my best. AN RON. MEMBER: Do you ·~nt the rules chanqed? MR. J. CARrER: I am sure though that non. gentleman opposite will accord 111e the courtesy of extra time should I require it but I thil1lt I can get through it. Mr. Speaker, there have been enough

definitions of education to fill a small or fill a large book. I have just picked out twa or three that might begin~ this discussion. " Education has been called a debt due from the present to future generations: education is what survives when what has been laarnt has been forgotten. The averaqe Ph.D thesis is nothing but a transfer::: · ence of bones from one graveyard to another. E:ducation is a right and not a privilege. There is some truth in all ~!'lese quotations but I think that perhaps they try and make it all too simple.

Now, in this motion we nave included a discussion of our own heritage, our Newfoundland heritage and~of course 1 our heritage as being part of a so-called civilized world. And if we want to talk about edllcation, 708

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 283 OW - 2 ~- J. CARTER: perhaps we should ~ry and es~ablish what is a useful philosphy or approach to that question.

Right now :ut tiu.s Chamber during this debate,it would be very !lard for us to agree on something as simple,for instance,as the establishment of Grade XII .On that topic alon~,hon. members could speak for far mere than their allotted twenty minutes probably without repeating themselves.and everyone would have a slightly different idea, a slightJ.y different view and would be able to contribute 3Cme very useful points to the debate but by the time the debate was over we still would not have settled whether we 'Should or should not have Grade XII. So is this a useful approach? What ! am tryinq to say, Mr.

Speaker, is ~~at it is hard to agree on what is good for education, what is good in education but on the other hand we can all very ·qaic:kly aqree,practically without debate,on what is bad. And some of the . things that are bad for education are poor facilities, poor buildings, erratic heating, overcrowding, poor ventilation and now curriculuzn, inadequate libraries. !t breaks my heart to go to some of the schools in this Province and see what passes for a library.

So let us rather concentrate on rectifying those conditions which we all agree are bad and seek relentless improvement. r think that this is a much more useful approach. We ~e looking for ideas and ideas do not come all that eas;i:ly • rn fact, Ldeas are no respecters of persons. Sometimes you can have a committee established to ~~ink up some new approach. . or something new and they jwst qo around and talk around in cirel:es.Other times,in the middle of the night an idea will strike you when you least expect it.

And the most unlikely people and unlikely l!Ou:rces have often had good ideas.What ~ ' ou eo with them is anot.~er matter but ideas are very hard to come by. Now, Mr. Speaker, fifty years aqo the only facilities that you could have in a school, the only teaching facilities besides the teachers were 709

Ju.ly 25, 1979 Tape No. 284 SD - l !iR. J. aRTER: some rudimentary instruments I suppose, and some l:looks 0 But in t:.he last fifty years there has been a. a.bsol.uta revo.l1.1tl.On in the ways we can s=r• a.llli process ~wl.eciqe.4nd j,..;t. to mention a. few, we have microfilm, we have tapes, both videotape alld. electronic tape, we have film and tel.avision prcqrammes ehat can be stcn"ed elacuonic:al.ly. We can process this in.forma tion thrc:~ugh ccmp1.1ters. We can have mini cal.culators. E'or ten dollars, you can buy a. calculator that twenty years a.c;o wou.ld. cost ycu probably $500.

So we have 1110re and 1110re m~cal thinqs at our disposal a.nd I would suggest that to a.ny school to be wortb.y of the name should. either be well provided. wit:!l these facilities, with tllese instruments or else have ready access to them. I d.o not think you could call a sc:haol properly equipped if it did not have things tllat extended our range of vision both to the microscopic a.nd the extremely large, that is to say, telescopes a.nd microscopes, taking both sides of the visual. spectrum.

There is no question about it tha.t today escablishinq a schoo.l is a very expensive thinq. '&e day of tile one roam school or the ewe room schgol witll a few rudimentary bits of equipment, a blackboard a.nd a f- l::>ooks, just is not adequate today. aut is all this any good if we do not enhance the pupils critical. faculties1 In otber words, children must learn hew to criticize and evaluate.

By tllis I do not mean tile kind. of criticism that one ncrmally associates with this House of Assembly which, in the past, has bean very destructive but I think which, in the future, is gcinq to be very constructive partly because of the new rules. So, I think that we must, havinq established, havinq prepared., having equipped our scbgol chil.:Zen to be critical, constructively critical, \ole IIIUSt then hcpe that this prepares them for the Wlexpected. I think t:ne history of the last thirty years wou.ld. certainly justify anyone sayinq tha.t the last thirty years were unaxpected..

The recessions, the oil crises, the poll tical crises .in the Third World, all of these ..,ere quite unexpected a.nd only 7i0

July 25, 1979 Tape &o. 284 so - 2 MR. J • CARrER: &A educated.~vilized world that was pr.pued for the unexpecteci, pr~. in other wcrcls, ta be unprepared, would be &bl.e ta ba.txlle it. I de not think we ba.ve done a.l-1 tb&t well in t:. way we bave hazli:Q.ad. tb.a pro.blama of the world but I de think we are iD a better positi.on• ou:c c:hilciren are much better edw:atad then - ware iUllli I hope that their c:tLi.ldl:en will even be better ad.uca1:8:ci aqaiD.

Now, we speak about our haritaqe and. llcrw it shguJ.ci be ~mated iUld ltere t think we have ta taka a very broad look at our heritaqe and look at NewfoWI!ilanci, not only i .n the zaxrow sense of our history, the kiDd of histe:ty you 'WOuJ.ci fi.c4 in t::.'le procasaecl history hook blat in even our qeoloqic:al. h:i.stgry aJl4 bare I will :be espec:tinq the Minister of Mines and. ElWrgy (Mr. L.Bany) to give lUI a short dissert&tioD on plat tectonics. Newfolmliland, I Urlderstand, is a c:omp0site

July 25,1979 Tape No. 285 AH-1 !'IR • J . CAR'l'ER: of three qeoloqica.l reqions. There is enouqh evidence to suqgest that Newfoundland is formed from three separate parts of the ancient globe. The Avalon Peninsula, preSUIIIilbly, at one eillle was joined to Morocco, about 250 million years aqo. Geoloqica.l evidence ; the type of rock is the same here as it is in Morocco. So perhaps if you wait another 250 million years we will end up SOIIIeWhere in South ~rica, that is those who believe the evidence that the earth's crust is shiftinq.

Similarly, the central part of the Island presumably has come from so- part of the Southern ?art of North America and is geoloqically quite different. Therefore:if you are lookinq for certain types of ore you will find it in the Buchans - anywhere from Notre Dame Bay riqht down throuqh Buchans. This is the area of Newfoundland where you can expect the types of ore, lead, zinc and ccpper 7 that type of ore.1

whereas the qreat Northern Peninsula apparently was and is, geoloqically part of the canadian shield and therefore a totally different type of mineral c;m be .expected to be found there . Now this is something we all should know. I understand it very .imperfectly but it is la!_owledqe th_at:_~e - s~ould have, it is part of our geoloqica.l heritage and it is worth havinq. I ~~~entioned earlier that we should expect the unexpected.

It has been said that our grandchildren will have jobs that have n.ot yet been invented.And in case that sounds curious to hoa. gentleman~just think back a few years aqo before plastics, befon electronics. Who would have known what a TV repai:r:man was in the 1920s? Plastic haqs or plastics have only been known since the war, t think it is. In the 1930s there were n.o plastic bags available. I think the nearest thing was the sort of cellulose handles that were en sllllle car doers. Another extraordinary fact is that of all the scientists that have ever lived,ninety-five per cent are still alive.

That is to say that the n.umber of scientists is increasinq at such a rate that ninety-five per cent of all the scientists that have ever lived are still alive. So there are so many topics to he discussed under this Heading. I · he_s~tate to get into, for instance, 712

July 25,1979 Tape !lo . 285 AH-2 ~~: school tax or school fina~~cinq. Can we qet IDCre for our money? I would hope t.'tat the lawyers in this chamber -..auld like to give a short discussion on certain laws peculiar to Newfoundland and certain court decisions that 1qa:in are anique to Newfoundland. The Minister of Social. Services (Mr.

Hickey) mi~t lilce to c611111ent on the fact that some of our social leqislation is the most advanced in Canaea and that at the time of Confederation we kept some of our social leqislation as distinct from the social leqislation that then existed in Canada because ours was more advanced than theirs. We perhaps would like to talk abOut technical education, polytechnic schools . To what extent should our resources be deYOtad. tr-!lrlf~ '!e~ical education and vocational education as opposed to grade school, academic school and university? Certainly sports should come in under this heading.

The heritage that we have of hockey and soccer and baseball The newspapers c:ontinual.ly print photoqraphs of famous teams in the 1920s and 1930s and ask people to identify them. The Outer Cove crew who rowed in the Reqatta and did the' - was it the 9-12?- they did the race in nine minutes and twelve seconds, a time that not only has not been equalled but no one has even come close to it. AN BON, MEMBER: I think he can in (inaudible) . MR.J .CARTER: Then there is Newfoundland's aviation history, o~r heritaqe of aviation~ the fact that many faJDOua Trans-Atlantic fliqhts began here.

Then there is our performance or the performance of our famous 713

July 25. 1979 Tape 286 E:C - l MR. J. CARr:ER: predec:assors in World War I and latterly, World War II. Theza are a number of stories even about I think the llllllllber for Ferryland (Mr. Power) could 'Nry well qi.va us a vary useful di.saartation. on the hiatory of tb.a SOutb.e:m Shere and tha wrecks that llava qon.a asilora there and the fact tb.at IIIW:b. of the furn.i.ture that was desti.Dad for Georqe Washinqton and Benjamin Franklin found its way into llo .. s on tha SOuthezn Shere.

This flUniture, by the way, was bought up by a. vary an.texprisi.nq person by the n- of John Murray Anderson, wno ~Wed it to finance Ilia theatrical career in New York, and he established an actinq sc:hcol whi.cb. t.ra.in.ed, iiiii0111J otb.ars, Betta Oa.vis aDd Ertha Kitt. SO Newfoundlanders ha.va had an effect far out of p%0p0rti.on to thei.r numbars • Our her:!. ta.qe is illso the sea aDd the fi.shary and the fact tha.t NeWfoundlanders are known to be the beat SIIL&ll.-boa.t--.o, I aci not know aQc,ut in the '«~rld but certai.nly in North Aaarl.ca.

SO - should lalow our hi.story, both sod.a.l and. political. '1'ha O:mfaderati.on battle is certainly '«<rth ramamberi.nq. It i.s a Ut.tle too clo- to IIWlY of ua, pemap., to discuss objectively. I would lika to present a faw n.JMS for .-bars 1 consideration. - and this is completely a.t random - of fiiiiEIUS sons, and tb.a ~t faa:aus son that co .. s to mind is a dauqhtar, Jessie Sti.rli..D.q, who w- known a.s 1 the sonq bird of 'l'willinqa.te 1 , who andecl up si.nqi.nq at W.Sca.lla Opera in Milan. 'l'here wu Gaorqe lCm:lwli..D.q, who i.J!,'ftllt.ed the lock rim for the wheal and - MR.

STI:RLING: It i.s Gaorqin& Sti.r.llnq. MR. J. CARTER: - <Oecrqin& - thcJk you, I aa told it. is Gaorqina. Sti.rlinq. MR. POWER: Any relation to the lion. -mber? MR. J. CRt'ER: I do 110t lalaw - perhaps a relation. Georqe J:nowlinq, who inventad the lock rim and the zipper, by the way. AN HON. ME:MBER: The :zipper? 714

-- July 2S, 1979 Tape 286 EC - 2 MR. J. CARn:R.: He did not patent it but he did h.ave it first. ~ere waa a Raverelld Mr. Mercer - I do not kDCIW IIIUCh about hill - t'roa New Perllcan, who waa the world's l-dinq au.th.arity on Suac:ri.tr and, of course, '1'=-y Udcetta, who distinquiahlld hlJgelf, the younqest balder of the Victoria Cross in the wbola British Elllpire; John Murray Ancie.rson, vilOIIl I have li!Bntiaaaci. There waa Bob B&rt.l.ettJ then, of course, falll:)u.s - what I will c:all residents 1 I do 110t think these people v.re bom here - Dr.

Paton, who established. ~rial OIU.versity, r.wis M1l.lar for wham bath. lAwi.aporta and MillertDWD are na.eci, mel C~tain J-• Camp~l, whc accomp.uiecS Scctt to the Antarctic • &d. then fugu.s visi tars i AmeUa Earhart, Cha:r:las Lindbergh and Marconi 1 and the list qoea on and on .mci on. I Dl told th.&t r:rr time is nearly up, so I would l.ilc.e to and with. a qugt&tion which I think is releVlllltl it is from xannat:h. Clark's book on civili.zation, .m.d. he is s~q up wD&t h.e ~ civili.zatian coa.Uts of. He SIIYII• •I believe that order +s better thaD. c:haDs, cxeatioa. l:lettar than ciest.ruc:tion.

I prefer qentleness to violence, forqivenasa to ftndett&, that lalowleciqe is preferable to 19Dormc:e and human sympathy -re valuable than ideoloqy. I l:leUe._ that in spite of the recent tri~ of science, - b.a,. nat c:hanqeci IIIUch in the l.ut 2, 000 y.ars , and. in CODaeqwmc:e, - IIIII.St still t:y tc learn t:ra• history. AbOve all, I belie- in the GocS-.;i.VIID ~u.s of certain individ.u.als and. I val\18 a society tb..at lii&Jces their azistenc:e possible. • I would. li.ke to hear from other hon. c;entl~ on t.b.is resolution, on this topic. I am sure it c:an be a very interestinq ~te. Thank you. MR.

SPEAEER.: (S~l ~e hoD. the -.be.r 715

J'uly 25' 1979 Tape ~o. 287 NM- 1 ~ HON. ~~ERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms ) : The hon. member for Port au Port. MR. J'. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, ! must say , first of all, that the motion is a good one, perhaps with the exception of one aspect of this. particular motion in that t.'le ma.in part of the motion says that the government be encouraged to review the materials presently used in our schools, I think it should be mandatory. ! think it should be much stronger wording, and ! believe my brother MBA here from Terra &ova (Mr.

Lush) will he dealing on that particular point when he rises to speak. aut I do think, Mr. Speaker, that this is one of the motions that has been presented by the other side that possibly all members of this House of Assembly can relate to and vote for. However, in listening to the member himself I was a hit disappointed in his short dissertation in that I do not think he really hit the key .

I realize and I am ·not criticizing any of the things that he said but I realize that students in &ewfoundland should be more aware of their own history and I think that possibly, if I listened to the member correctl~ he was talking more or less in terms of a group of things that c ould be taught in one course rather than - and I would think that the Newfoundland content must be right throughout the whole school, from kindergarten to grade XI, or possibly grade XII, rather than in the 111ethod which the member seemed to be, and I could not quite get what he was saying there, but it should be a change throughout.

In other words, that our text books should be relevant to the student and relevant to the Province itself

whereas many of the things that the member mentioned would seem to be subject matter for courses and things that should certainly, and ! agree with him, be stressed as far as our heritage is concerned. And I !!light say 7 a1so, that ! would like to talk perhaps 716

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 287 NM - 2 MR. J. :!ODDER: on another aspect of this particular resolution, our cultural heritage which is now becoming more paramount aild people are listening to ar.d perhaps I should say that there is a cultural revolution going on in the Province. It was just last night, in reading yesterday's gvening Telegram that I saw an interview with the Reverend cannon Earle, who is Provost of Queen's College and who has recently retired or who is about to retire, who is a man who one time had me in his charge.

I ws not in the theological school but I was under :U.s charge fer a yea::, perhaps much to his chaqri.'1 but at that time I learned to appreciate ~ch of ~s love for the history of Newfoundland and his efforts to preserve the ~ewfoundland culture.

And in this interview he noted that in the old days there were only a few who were trying - who were trying to be successful in perserving the old Newfoundland, as he put it in the interview, nt.he colour and the flavour of old Newfoundland." And some of those few- and if we remember that it was only a very short time ago that ~y Newfoundlanders were ashamed of their past and very often did not look backwards.

Perhaps it was the fact that we went into confederation nth Canada.. we went iilto something .,holly new in which we were a small province and we looked to the Mainland and to Ontario, at that particular time~which in my mind ·.o~as not a fault of the political system but a fault of, perhaps 7 the emergence of a Province perhaps not very weal thy who had just come from Commission of Government where <iemccracy had been suspended, we ~o~ent into the Canadian Confederation and wa had a tendency to look and think that because they had a little more riches than we did that we were not quite so good as they were.

Fortunately, this has turned around, and it is a very good thing that it has CU:ned around. But now that is over and I think now that the Newfoundland ;eople realize that it is the quality of life that is important. aut there is one warninglof course, we should not go overboard all the •Nay. We should not become such a cultural 71.7

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 287 NM - 3 MR. J . EODDER: entity i:.hat .re forget; the outside and forget the other parts of cana4a. of the nation we live in. But a.t the same time if I - and I have been in the classrOom and I have ~:n in a supervisory capaci.ty in the classrooms, I would say there is no fear at the - 71.8

Jul.y 25, 1979 Tape 288 Mr. Hodder: present time that there is any chance that our school system is going overboard that way. cultural revolution in music. I see people from my own district who are working • In one case, I speak of a well-la!own folk artist, Emile Benoit from my district who works on a Canada Works project in the Wintertime and in the Summertime travels all over the Onited states PK - 1 and all across Canada with his music, and he is better known outside of Newfoundland than be is in, in many respects.

And I believe, and this is one of the things - and I digress from the resolution for a moment to say this- that I think this is one the good things in the Budget tb.at people, I hope, like that who have something to contribute will be able to do it and be funded in such a way that they can even make themselves better known both in the Province and outside of the Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to refer for one moment to the Task Force Report On Educat~on, on page 105, where the authors say that - they s~em to have contradicted themselves,in a sense,unless there is a misprint here.

They were talking about submissions made to t.'le Task Force, and they said, "A final general concern which arose as the information was collected,was the lack of Newfoundland and Labrador content in the curriculum." Then they say, "That this concern is certainly high in the priorities of many of those making submissions.

However, the situation of the schools certainly does not merit this ccncern. 11 Then they go on to say, and this is why I think it should have read, 'does merit a concern: because they say, "A few high schools make the necessary genuflection towards a shrine of local content by including one Newfoundland and Labrador novel in their programmtng. But the degree of collllllitment was tenuous in most cases. Generally twenty or more teachers and principals were interviewed in each district, but those who were vitally concerned with the ability and understanding of our cultural heritage were in t.'le minority .

When one has to explain to teachers what is meant by 71.9

July 25, 1979 Tape 288 PK - 2 Mr .• Hodder: local or Newfoundland content in the curriculum it is not diffic'!llt to conclude that little is being done.'' And I unciers't:aild that this par1:icular statement was macie on the bas~s or speaking to a large number of schools and the people in a large number of schools. They go on to say, "That some school districts" - and I will confi:z:m this - "that some school districts are really moving on Newfoundland content.

And it is not uniform across the Province that schools are lacking in trying to teach the cultural heritage and the cultural way of thinking." Sut they do say, "That many do not." And I would say from my experience that there are many shcools in the Province that do not. Now7 to talk about the basic programmes in schools. Now we can say that schools should do everything, but basically the school can only do so much. But in this regard I think they can do a lot.

I feel that, you know, when we have 'Newfoundland history being taught in Grade V that is the wrong place. well 1perhaps we could teach it in Grade 17 but I think it should be taught in some of the higher grades. And when I look at the World History textbook which students in the Province study at the present time, that textbook does not show Newfoundland's place in the world, it is a world history. We study different countries, but these countries are not studied in terms of Newfoundland's place - from a Newfoundland viewpoint, I should say.

And I feel that that is the sort of text that we should have in these courses. As far as the literature books are concer,ned , if you look at the anthologies of Canadian~ American, and some of the older and famous poetry and short stories by famours authors etc. - however, except for some -I should say some courses have extra reading with such things as,I believe 7Baffles Of wind And Tide which is one o~ the Newfoundland anthologies, but these are sometimes ignored. 3ut basically, 720

July 25, 1979 Tape 288 ?K - J Mr. Hodder: the eore set of books that we read throuqhout,say from Kindgarten \lll, they are in most part ., except for supplementary te:x:t, basi~a.lJ.y Now,I feel that t:here is lots of a>aterial co be ineluded in our courses throughout the sehools. - 72.1

July 25. 1979 Tap~ No. 289 ow - 1 MR. J. HODDER: I think that even in the basic tP.xts such as !llathematics , history and science that t.'lese books should be wri t:~en in Newfcundland. we have the -3xpertise ho!re -in :<ew­ foundland, t.'ley should be written in Newfoundland and they should be ~ritten by Newfoundlanders or people ·~o know the Newfoundland scene. We certainly have the teachers, ~e have the curriculum consultants, we have the peojlle at the university who are well able to do this, to produce.

And not only that but we have the book publishing firm here in Newfoundland that has shown and led the way, Breakwater Books has led the way in producing ~ewfound­ land literature and has aided Newfoundland culture. ~r. Speaker, I think at t.'le same time when we talk about Newfoundland culture that we should not consider that the shoals should be- a dUIIIPing gl:CIUnd for ,all ~Tewfoundland artists. But I do thinlc our c=iculum should sift what is best and there is much, a large amount, there are plays , playrights in Newfoundland.

There are artists, there are poets in Newfoundland. ! think we should take what is best and we should include it in our c::=iculum. I do not knaw how !IDlch time I have left, Mr. Speaker. liN RON. MEMBER: 'l'oro hours • MR. !t. SIMMONS: !Ul. J. !!ODDER: By leave. BY leave. Two hours? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There are some extreme circumstances in this Province as well that ! would1 like to talk about in terms of when we talk about teaching our cultural heritage and teaching local information and teaching students in ~ way in which they can best relate to their environment and appreciate the coiiiii!Wlity they came from and· their Province. There are certain things I would like to refer co. The first one I have no doubt my colleague, the member for Ta:r:nqat ~tains (Mr.

Warren) 1 will be· referring to when he speaks· I will just mention it in passing because 1t leads me into something else which the Task Force reports did not mention. But in the Task 722

J'uly 25, 1979 Tape NO. 289 DW - 2 MR. J'. ?.OCOER: Force report they ~entioned that ~~e students of coastal Labrador sometimes find the text in various subjecc areas ditficult for two ma1n reasons~ they do not speak their language and they do not speak of their culture. This leads to a lack of ccmprehension and ultimately slows cown considerably the learning process. ~ow,that I will leave at that except to say that it is a shame ~d it is a bloc,I would say,on our education system if ....e cannot have an i!dUcation system •o~~hich can cater to ~'le minority qroups in our society and in our Province.

But the reason I brinq this up, not meaninq to steal any ~'lunder f~ the member for Tornqat Mountains (!olr. wa=en), is because I think in terms of the rrench - I will not say the district of Port au Port I will say the French in the Bay St. Gecrqe reqion. In one particular school at the present time - and remember that these are net French ~he came here recently, they are the ~ewfoundland :'rench. ~ ·!;my··: of the people in my district came from France, directly. I spoke to a man net tn:lre than three weeks age who was bern in France. They came to Port au Port by wy of St. Pie=e.

Some families still have some relationship with St. Pierre but they came France and most of them can tell you where their ancestors came from. luid the other qroup, probably the qroup in my colleaque from Stephenville 1 s district (Mr. St·aqq) are more from the Acadians and probably came to Stephenville during or about the time of the expulsion of the Acadians and the family names ue sliqhtly different in the two areas. I think you would say that the Bcurqecis perhaps were Acadian or the Cormier 1 s

whereas the aencits and many others, the Lerois all came from France and can trace their ancastory that way. However 7 they do speak French in their hotnes and our edUcational system is not allowinq them to he able to have that benefit of teaching their cultural heritage in the schools. Now,there is in Bay St. Georqe an emergent proqraJIIIIIe but that is only one area. lfe do have another area which is the community of Mainland, it is called Mainland and it is 723

July 25' 1979 Tape '10. 289 ow - ) MR. HOOOER: known as, I think, and my french is not veey gcod,the La Grande 1!erre. In that particular COIIIIIUnity - did indeed live on a olace called Red Is1and and they called the Mainland of Newfoundland -.inland and that is how the Great Land, Le Grande Terre :r;eeeived 724

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 290 NM- l MR. J. HODDER: received its name. And in that particular community they still speak French,:Cy and large, all the time in their home and amongst themselves, and also througnout ~,e areas of alack Duck Brook, Winterhouse, parts of Lourdes, and generally throughout the whole Port au Port area. Now7 the school which they go to, •..ntich is a consolidated school, makes no effort to give them an emergent ,>rogramme and to my knowledge there is no effort to teach them of their roots and of the particular heritage and culture they have. And I think, Mr.

Speaker, that that is something that perhaps the Department of Education should look at because even though I did hear the former Minister of Education say one time that there was an emergent course out on the Port au Port Peninsula, it only works on one side of the Peninsula for one school in one particular area. Mr.

Speaker, to leave that particular subject ~nd step 7perhaps 7 to another,I would like to say that the social studies courses which we teach, and there are provisions in social studies, I think that the social studies courses that we teach in schools should give more students of Newfoundland society. ~ore awareness of the structure You know1 as a politician I walk into a community and I suggest to them that they should have a community council or a local improvement district or a town council and they look at me as if I had six heads, not two heads, and they are afraid of it. They will not touch it.

They worry about their land being taxed. They worry about all sorts of things that community councils were never designed to do but perhaps might. aut nevertheless~ they show no understanding of the local government process.And also, l'.r. Speaker, many people that I meet in my travels as an MHA do not understand what goes on in this Legislature. I ~'link that it is important that they do. I must admit that there are times that I do not understand what goes on in the Legislature either but generally. they do not understand the division of federal and provincial powers, 725

Jul.y 25, 1979 Tape No. 290 NM - 2 MR. J. HODDER: they do not understand just what happens here or the form of this particular House or how it is a bulwark towards democracy. I thi.nk if more Newfoundlanders understood this particular House of Assemb1y 1 perhaps many of us would not be able to get away with many of the things that we do here in the House.

Sut I mention that as a part of the - it seems to me if something is being taught in the schools, and I am not sure if it is or not, I know they used to have Civics courses and things like that, but if it is being taught in the schools it does not seem to be getting through. Secausei meet young people as well as older people who do not understand what happens, and they do not have an awareness of the place of organizations in their community or what can be done with organizations or what people can do when joined together as a group. Mr.

Speaker, I thi.nk that the content in our schools mus~ deal with local and familiar experiences. I believe that each part of this P=vince has unique custollll3 and, you know, you find as you travel from one part of the Province to another that you find a different culture altogether, I am not thinking of French or English or Innuit, I am thinking about just from Conception Bay to Placentia Bay to Trinity Bay, the different cultures.

I was in my district a few months ago, more tftan a few months ago it was six months ago or so, and I attended a Candlemas dance,I believe it was called, where the people of that particular community went around with a stick, each person put a ribbon on that particular stick and I think it was called the Candlemas stick, and each person who put the ribbon on also donated food. Now, one time this used to be done 726

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 291 so - l MR. J. !iOOOER in the iJ,cuss but oow :here are so many people that ~~ey do not do it in the houses and they do it at a local club. Then ';;)ay nave the C4lndlE:llla5 dance and they dress up and ~'ley spread it azcund ~'le CCIIIIIUnity of Cape St. George. It is a. tradition wilich for awhile died and llCW it has ccme back. I th.ink the scnools should anccuraqe tnose traditions. I think they shol:lld be encouraged in the schools. I think, Mr.

Speaker, in S1.11111DaZ'Y, that textbooks should be written in NewfoWldl.and, there should be pronsions for the type of thinq that the member for St. John's North (Mr. ;;. carter) was talkinq a.bol:lt, there should be provisions also for l.ccaJ. content. I am not saying that the schools can do everyttUng bl:lt I think teachers must be made aware that when they go into a COIIIIIIwti.ty they have an obligation to the students to lllaka that particular schcol in which they teach - MR. SPEAl<ER: (Butt) MR. J. !iODOER: Your time is 11p. My time is up.

May I ha.,e leave for about two minutes lDDre, three lllinu.tes 111ore. MR. Si'EAKER: 11R. w. liARSliALL: MR. J. HODDER: By le<ive. By leave. By leave, thank you. ~'lat when they walk intc that school that they, whether they be from Trinity Bay walking into a. schccl in my district,say in Piccadilly, have a. bounden duty to lllaka sure that the students in that particular school learn abol:lt ~'leir CCDIIIunity and oot learn tc disrespect their cCIIIIDWl.it'I as happens in many cases.

I am oot accusing teache%'3 of that but I de la.now that oot encugh effort is put intc Uying to instill intc a person the history, the culture, the feeling of their cCDmwti.t:y and what they have to do to make that community work and hew they go about doing it. I think that that is a. very important thing. one othsr point and just a small point because the hon. member for St. John's !forth mentioned it, it is oot

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 291 SD - 2 MR. J. !~ODDER: quite in line with what I was saying but I want ta talk about tec:hnica~ education. I think that perhaps ~~~any of our schoo~s in the Province right !lOW are teaching teo many people the same things. For instance, yo11 set up a heavy equipment sciloo~, we wlll u.y,at Stephenville, I do not know if my ben. friend acrcss tile House is stil.~ tile Cha.irillan of the Bay St.

George Ccmmunity Cc llege or 110t - Wider whose pen it c~s - or the Clla.izman of the Board of Oirectors 1 I should say, but you ,Elllt all this heavy infrastructur9 into place, heavy equipment, trucks, bulldozers and everything else and you put. your staff in place and then we find we are turni,ng out toe many of tnem so tllat everybody has this particular trade and can not get a job.aut how do you ch.A."'lqe it? It is a problem I realize that the government has. ta grapple vi th beca11se you have got a big investment there and you sudde~y got tc s=ap it al~ and then change.

But I think that is going tc have tc start. I think we· are going tc have ta start training people for tile s.ki~ls that we are going tc need in the new Newfoundl.and. and I do bcpe there is a new Newfoundland as the Premier ta~ about. And if - are goinq :::0 do that 1 chen we are going ta have tc cilange the method of training, the type of training that is gcinq on.

I knew of people, we all knew, every member in this House mows people in their districts wile have three or four trades and can not get a jo.b and tney are trying to get a job but tney have .been pushed through a schcol system, a voc:ational system in which they cannot and I think tnat if we have tc make it relevant to what we are gcinq to de .:.n tile l980s and 1990s. we have got to start thinking lliOW. I am sure the government must .be giving some thought tc that. I spoke, Mr. SpeaJcer, in

summary and new I am goinq tc sit down. I realize perhaps I have overdone r:Ir'f time somewhat .but I .believe that many of the textbooks in our schools are written on the ~~~ainland and that they are gea;red ta an Ontario value 728

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 291 SD - 3 HR. J. HODDER: system. I think it is crucial to this Province that we develop a curriculum geared to the needs of Newfouiiiil.and students and that we must teach students to appreciate this Province, that they must appreciate our life and death struggle if you will, with nature, our fis.il.ery and our forests. I think it is important that they understand, and. I said this in the House before wben we were debating education here before but I think that the students must understalld what we are, what we have and. how we have to deal with it a.cd. where we are going in the future.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. GENTLEMEN s MR. SPEAKER: (.Butt) MR. F. STAGG: Hear, hear. The hen. member for Stephenville. Mr. Speaker, maybe it is a set-up between myself am the hen. member for Port au Port (Mr. J. Hodder) but we have decided to monopolize the best time of the day as far, as the press is concerned and. these of you who heamme speak last week know how I tried to g-et ~ attention of the J?ress and I see that there are just as many people in the Press Gallery this a£ternoon as there were then, namely, none. So I am wond.ering, Mr.

Speaker, whether our deliberations here this a£ternoon are baing covered by the press and. whether the word is g-oing to g-o out. Because it really does not matter who says it but the fact is that some very significant things being said and this debate is one that will be, I would anticipate, it certaiDJ.y llas b-n up to this point,a debate in which the unanimous opil!ion has been exprassed that there is far too little NewfoWldland content being taught in our sc.hcols. 729

July 25 , 1979 Tape No. 292 AH-1 And,obviously,into the l980s,as this government has suggested,we are going to reawaken to the true value of be.inq Newfoundlanders and we are qoinq to exploit our natural resources,both != the physical resources and the resources of our ~ple.

So I certainly hope that the people whose duty it is to cover the deliberations in this Chalber do not t!ti.nk that because this is Private Mulbers' Day that it can be sloughed . ~~f and disraqardo!d ~c;:ause perhaps this is the 1110st significant debate that w:i.ll. have taken place in this Chamber for sm. time and I c:onqratul&U the -.ber !or St. JobD '• North (John A. Carter) for havinq brought it to our attention. Now, M.r. Speaker, I am qoinq to d:i.qress SOIIIIIWbat in my few remarks and I am qoinq to read f:m~~ ay capio ...

Data. aqaill, aYeDtu&ll.y, but I wa111.4 Uk.e ta diract myself to a particular aspect of education and what I consider to be the problem and maybe what the solution is. It seems to me as if' far too many Newfoundlanders are illiterate, they ~ functionally illi terata, they cannot read or write and a lot of Newfoundlanders cannot talk, <}rammer bad, spelling bad, punctuation poor.

I was looking at one of the ~~~ember of the Rouse of Assembly recently wri tinq a letter and I said, "Boy, that is terrible wri tinq," so I think I will have to give him a literacy course somewhere along the way although he does speak well. The minister in front of. me here could probably take advantage of it as well. He 3hould have been a doctor his writing is so bad.

Anyway,illiteracy is a real problea and over in the Stephenville area we have been 1110n1 aware of it than anybody else 1 not because of own people are illiterate - we have our share, · . !:i_~ .. ~C:ause all of the illiterate people in all of Newfoundland,over the put ten years or so,ha·.re gone to the Stephenville area to what was once called the Stephenville Adult Center and. is naw cal.l.Ad. the Bay St. George Ccala1mity Coll•qe and as my colleague from Port au Pert (Mr.Hodder) indicated I am the Chairman of the Board of Trustees there. I am DOt sure whether I 730

July 25,1979 Tape No. 292 AH-2 can remain so or whether the Leqislative Disabilities Act disetitles me from such a poaition which is nonremunerative but neverthe~ess gives me a high profile within the district. So I will probably have to qive it up because they llliqht thi.nk: that a politid.u vas h-dinq it up rather than a citizen. MR. SIMMONS : I think (inaudible l c:o-d1ai%1U11 will (inaudible) • .!'I.R. S'l'AGG: Probably will, probably will, yes have to put one of his nominees on it. Anyway, Mr.

Speaker , I am qui ta ccncerned that in this Province where we are spending scaethinq like $300 lllillion a year on education, I think the estimates give us scaethi.nq like $300 million, that is an awful lot of 1110ney for a Province that really cannot afford it. Are we gettinq our money's worth for the money that we are paying out? Are these students that we are puttinq out into today's world,in this Province, are they ~roperly educated? Are they literate<aecause I know, as an employer in attamptinq to find employees who can speak and think and show sane initiative, that it is extremely difficult.

I have inter"'l'iewed people who have qone through our !lchool system and they have had honours, honours qraduates of the high school system, they b.ave ccnsiderable difficulty in writinq a sentence that is leqible._~d to ':.alee an idea,~ to give a person an· idea ,-am:!l to give you bade a paraqraph that embodies that idea is practically impossible. So obviously, for these people who -re able to master the school syste111 as it vas tauqht to them and to achieve a very high deqree of proficiency in it, there must be something lacking. I would suqqest that one of the things lacking is I as the member for St.

John's North (Mr. J. Carter) points out, the lack of personal involvement in the subjects beinq tauqht. For instance 1 the only ?31.

July 25, 1979 'rape No. 292 MR. S'l'AGG: Newfoundland llistory I did wban I wu goinc; to school, I beliav., was in, well, Grade 5 or so, and thAt wu a pretty watered dawn llistory, and. even in those ~s wbea. I did it in Grads S, wllich wu not yesterday but not too lone; &qo either, it wu scm. time in the 1950 1 s - AN HON • .MEMBER: Forty years ago? MR. S'l'AGG: I was a prcdic;y bu.t not that prodiqious - tha.t was it. In one of tham there wu a picture, Cobb's Al:m l1ad a l.i.-stone qUArry. That is u much as I knew al:lou.t Cobb's Al:m.

I &lao knew tha.t AqU.&thuna had a l.i.-stone quac:y that was :far biCJI:III% aDd. I waa w011derinc; wb.y Aquathuna waa not properly c:ov.red in it, and I suc;vest probably the author of the history book wu from Cobb's Al:m and. I c:o:a.sidarad it a gross - AH HON. MEMBER: tlr. Harris. MR. STAGG: Well, Or. Harris and I ha'Y'Il not &l.ways seen sy.-to-ye over the years.

I was qoinq to go into my next exposure to Newfoundland. history, wllich waa tbzough Or. li&rris in 1963 whic!l. was a decidedly- I think that was at ti1a time wb.en I was =-inc; !our years into fiw at tile =l.versity which wu quite an interestinq year. !oly -c:olla&CJlll! f:roa Port au Port (Mr. SOdderl also participated. in that in.fucus year at uni.v.rsity. It wu so- time after his sojourn at ' Q~aeD's Collac;e with caaan Earl.a to whic!l. he &l.lmied. earlier. Anyway, be ral.evant, Mr. Speaker.

Anyway, they were of interest to 118. t would. suqqest that if we did upand upon the very fertile ground tllat is in this Pxovinca for ~earc:hinc; our own llistory, that you would. find Newfound.l.an.dars who would be very, very interested. in read.inq, just gene:ra.lly readinq, because lltaracy is generally in'IIOlwd. with the abil.ity to read.. If you can re;ad and read with l.lllderstandinq, it hu a spin-o-r intc many other fiel.ds. So I co-m the han. member 732

June 25, 1979 Tape 293 EC -l MR. STAGG: for bringing it forward and I would suqqest that if the government does act on it - and certainly, I believe it: wi.U. wi'Cil. l:.il.e QOnc:urrence of non. ~rs opposite. And. certainly, u the Spaecn from the 'l'hrone sud, we are looking at the wistful singer of an old song, the taller of an old tala and a ciraamar of old ciraUIS. And it sort of !llakes the hair stand on the back of your head to think of tboae things. This is what we are now QO.ming into in thia Province. We are QOIIIinq into the N-folmlil.ander of the 1980s who, as my QOllaac;ue frcm Port au Port (Mr. J.

Hodder) pointed out, is getting over the inferiority complex that ,.. i:Ulerita.d with Cmlfecie:ra.tion, where . .,e amsidered that the plutic and tilulel of Ontario and other parts of Canad& ware what we wa11ted. What we want, and what has proved to be QOrrect and riqht for N"-founcl.landars, are the t:ra.ciiticn&l tl:l.ings that our forefathers found to be so wonderful, the tllings that kept th- b.are on this Rock, and the physical. features, awn the idea of being a Newfoundlander, that will keep our people here. NOW, all is nat lost.

There are some people in this Province who are working very well, I think, tcwarcis brinqing our history and our gaoqraphy to our attention. On Budget day last we~ I had the forasiqht, pe:z:haps, or lack of forasiqht, to qo dcwn to the Memorial University book.store in the 1110=inq and buy some boob - I l:xlug.b.t ~SO 1110rtl:L of books - and the Minister of Finance (Dr. J. Collins I ~ in in the aftel:DOQn and. took the s&laa tax off on -· So it just goes to show that there ware no leaks on the Bu.dqat.

Anyway, I w.nt down, and. one of the books that I bouqht - and this wu betora I really started considering whethar I wu gainq to speak hare tod.&y - but there was a book there called 'lhe Peopling of Newfoundland - Essays on iiistorical Geoqraphy by D.J'. MaDion, Editor. And. h.era are SCIIII8 of the things that are in it - and. I would suggest to all hon. 11111111bers that it is a very good book to l:luy, it is hard-cover, will go in your library, QOSts $10.00 - ~ll.lO with talt, but since there is no 1110re tax you can have it for $10.00 - mine QOSt 11111 $11.10. It is divided into nine chapters. The first

chapter is 'English m.iqration in Newfoundland..' 733

July 25, l979 Tape 293 EC - 2 MR. STAGG: 'ftlere are only thirty-four paqes so most han. u.mben should be able to read it in about three or four days. 'l:he second c:h.aptu , "Population Dyn&llli.cs in Newfoundland - the :leqionAl. P&ttarn•; third. chapter, "The OevaloP!!I!llt of !'olk Architac:ture in Trinity say• - the memben for Trinity B&y should be quite interested in that. That is by oaud s. MU.J.s.

Chapter four, "A Medal - M-o-d-a-l - that is a very literate type of title - "A Modal Seauence of the People of Central Bonavista Bay, 1676 to l857" by Allan G. McPherson. And than a fall.aw I went to university with, Chesley W. Sanqer, a biq, tal.l, red-h&&ded fallow, a good basketball player, used to qive you the el.bows ~m.derneath the basketa all the time - AN liON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) play basketball. Mll. STAGG: - I played basketbal.l - not well , not as well as I play some other sports. AN BON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) bench. MR.

ST~: Chesley Sanqer wrcta about the "Evolution of Sealinq - Saallnq, no 't' - and the Spread of Settlaman.t in Northeastern Newfo~mdland. o Patri.ci& A. Thornton wrcte about. "!!!!:, Oemaq::aphic and Mercantile Basis of Initial. Pe:manent Settlement. in the Strait of Belle Isle. • SO+the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr. Roberts) has Already probably ra&d this. Maybe he is - MR. llOBERTS: MR. STAGG: MR. ROBERTS: MR. STAGG: 0. J. Mannion's book? Yes. I have that and it i:q a verv good book. Very qood.

Well the IIIUiber for the Strait of Belle Isle discovered it before I did but then he hu the advantaqe of livinq in the 'holy city'; I happen to be out in the boondccks. MR. IlCBERrS: would be in the boondccks. SOME RON • MEMBERS: MR. STAGG: MR. SPEAXER: (Simms) Wherever the hon. gentleman lived Oh, oh!

Chapter 7 - Order, please! 734

July 25, 1979 Tape 294 PK - l MR. SPEAKER (BUTT) : Order, please: · MR. STAGG: Mr. Speaker, I must say that I invited the qomment from che non. member, so I share in the remons~ation ~her~. SOME HON. MD~: MR. STAGG: already read that one. Oh, oh!

Chapter six: the Demographic - oh I have

Chapter seven; Ethnic Diversity and Settler Location on the Eastern Lower NOrth Shore of Quebec. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STAGG: Because we have some connection with Quebec.

Chapter eight; Hiqhland Scots Miaration to Southwestern Newfoundland, a Study of Kinship, the member for St . George's (Mr. Dawe) would do well to read that. And the most important

chapter of all, saved it for the last, is Settlers and Traders in Western Newfoundland,by the editor himself, Don J. Mannion who tallced about Port au Port and Bay st. George, 'and really backed up an awful lot of the things that the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) was saying. Unfortunately, he said them all, Now,I was hoping to get up, Sir, and speak while my tWCl constituents from Stephenville '"er~ still in the ga.J.lery, but since they are gone and there are other people who want to speak - AN HON. MEMBER: There are constituents from Port au Port here. MR.

STAGG: There are constituents from Port au Port here, well that is good. - Well., I have one of my constituents from Stephenville here.The hon. member for Port au Port is one of my constituents. I know that he contributed towards ~/ majority in the recent el~ction. The posters in his window would not lead one to believe that however. So ladies and gen~lemen or hon. members - AN RON. !m'!BER: Mr. Speaker. MR. STAGG: Mr. Speaker,yes, right. I thought I was in a political campaign there for a minutes talking about the member for Port au Port and myself. 735

July 25, 1979 Tape 294 PK - 2 Mr. Stagg: That is about all I have to say. I was thinking maybe when the Minister of Education (Mrs. verge) speaks in this debate She might be immodest enough to tell us about the Fishers or Corner Brock because she is from one of the historic families of Corner Brock who - MR. ROBERTS: Fishers' mill. MR. STAGG: Fishers' mill in Corner Brook. She is of t..'lat family who preceded tbe Corner Brook mill- MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible) Corner Brock. MR. STAGG: Exactly, that is •..rhat it was. I am not inviting all these comments, Mr. Speaker. The member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr.

Roberts) could certainly participate in the debate as time goes on but I am net going to be feeding you all these straight lines throughout this.

Of cou:rse,as a general comment before I sit down1 I can say to all han. members and to the members of the press gallery who have trooped in to listen to what I have to say- they are like Banquo's ghost, you cannot see them - that the West Coast was there long before Ernest aarmon Airforce Base and it was there long before the mill at Corner Brock. so those of you who want to learn a little bit more about,it invest ten dollars in it, you will learn a little bit about Newfoundland and particularly in

chapter 9. And to the hen. member for St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter) thank you for putting t..~is on the Order Paper. I am sure that it will be a useful debate. SOME !iON. MEMBERS: !lear , hear! MR. SPEAKER (SIMMSl : The hen. member for Tcrnqat Mountains. SOME !iON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.~: Mr. Speaker, nackamik. Nac.kamik is the Esk:iJDo word for thank you. Miskametin is the Indian word for thank you. Mr. Speaker, I would liko;o to thank the hen. member for St. J"ohn' s North (Mr. J.

Carter} for bringing in such a resolution to the floor because for those of you who know the district of Torngat Mountains. we have roughly a 65 per cent population of Eskimo and Indians. Meanwhile . in our schools in this district , the 736

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 295 NM - l MR. ioiARRE.."': education that is taught is World History, or WOrld Geography. A few years ago the Rev. Peacock did a dictionary called An Eskimo And Enal.ish Oict.ionary. Now, l.f you go along tile coast in my district,you may find one of those books in each of the schools. Mr. Speaker, th.is is a very valuable book and done by very honourable gentlemen and I bel.ieve the 600 school kids in my district should have access to this very valuable dict.ionary. It is a dict.ionary that gives the simple English words for the simple Eskimo ~rds.

I understand that the Department of Education, through Memorial University, have recently, in the past several mon~~s, been instrumenting some programmes for native teachers along the Labrador Coast. Mr. Speaker, I believe this again is a great step forward and is helping the Eskimo and Indian people along the Labrador Coast to know more about and to understand in the.ir own language what is going on. I am sure if the Oepart:nent of Education would get together and do up a history of Labrador, not world history, a history of the Labrador Coast itself, I am sure the volume would be IIIUch greater than this.

It would be many, many volumes and it would be what the people on the Coast of Labrador wish to hear. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, in 1968, I had the unique opportunity of living for twenty-two months in Davis Inlet. At that time there were seven people who could speak English. The Department of Education also asked me at that time to try to teach English to the Indian population. I must admit, I think, looking back eleven years ago, that I never thought that I would have the opportunity of being in the hon. House and saying that I believe it was a step backward at that time.

Because I believe we should leave the Indian and the Eskimo to the.ir own langauge, their own langauge is very important. It is us who should learn their language. Mr. Speaker, in fact 7 during the six months ~~at I did teach English there I learned the Indian language because after all I was trying to teach twenty-two Indians the English 737

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 295 NM - 2 MR. WARREN: language and every Indian word that they were saying was reflected back to me. aut I learned it much easier than ehey learned tile English. Probably ehey were better teachers than I was. Mr. Speaker, I think I can go on and on about the culture in the Torngat district and in Labrador in general. When a person can get off a plane in Nain and young kids can come along to him and in broken English probably say, "Hello", o-:- "How are you?" and 10u cannot respond to them because probably we are so sophisticated that - it is pretty difficult for that kid.

You go up there ~na you go through the schools, the kids are very excited in seeing you there but you cannot express your feelings because of the language barrier and because our Province, our -government, are not doing more for the culture of the people in my district. Mr. Speaker, as you go through the district from Makkovik to Nain,you will find the Eskimo in Makkovik and in 8opedale and then from 8opedale to Nain, to the community of Davis Inlet, which is comprised of roughly 250 Indians.

I know if we go back to the last ten or twelve years we have had some Philippine teacl::ers, Chinese teachers, teachers from Toronto, teachers from down in the United States, going up into Davis Inlet trying to teach Indian kids. I believe, Mr. Speaker, it is a bit ridiculous. We need Labradorians and Newfoundlanders who know the Indian and Eskimo 738

July 25, 1979 Tape NO. 296 GH-l MR. WARREN: ehe Eskimo background in order to get the message across,of education, to these people. We do not need to go away down in cnina to get: a teacher to go in Davis Inlet. All we need to do is to educate our own people so that they will know the background of these people and they can get ehe message across in education. Mr.

Speaker, also ~~ere is a book, Alluring Labrador· It is a touriSII\ book and I hope later on in this House I am going to speak more on tourism, but if the hon. members have the chance to look ehrough this book, I am sure that there are very many enlightening ideas in this book ~~at can bring back to us the hardships and tribulations that the people in my district have to go through. I am sure the hon. !U.nister of Education (Ms. Verge) would love to have a book like this if she has not already got it. Mr.

Speaker , I am not going to take up too much more time because I know there are a coupl,e of other members from this side of the House who would like to respond to the motion, but I am in favaur of the motion , and I believe it is high time that this government would step forwa%d and look at culture as a very important step,especially in the district of the Torngat. SOME BON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MS. VERGE: Hear, hear: The hon. Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, I would like to enthusiastically speak in support of the motion made by the hon. member for St. John's ~orth (Mr. J. Carter).

I would like to say to the member for Torngat Mountain (Mr. Warren) ehat I Chink an integral part of stepping forward wi~'l ehis government is supporting this motion and encouraging more local. material in our schools. I recoqni.ze, and I think the Department of Education recoqnizes now, ehat a number of worthy objectives will be met by having material in the schools reflecting more of our culture, history and experience, and I would like to outline some of these obje~ives. I think ehe 739

July 25, 1979 Tape ~o. 296 GH-2 !MS. VERGE:: most important, the paramount objective, that we have to strive towards is excellence in education of our having more local content in the schools. It •.rill improve the quality of education first by creating an awareness in our students of the potential and of the reality of our Province. This will enable our students to take advantage of what is here, what we already have by becoming aware of the economic facts of life and of the potential for growt.l"l and development.

Our students can aim for the kinds of training programs and university programs which will qualify them for the jobs which will be here in the Province so that when they graduate and go out into the job market, they will be able to stay home if that is what they want to do so that they will not have to go to Ontario or Alberta to get employment. It will also, hopefully, enable our own people to become self-starters, to become entrepreneurs, not merely employees, and take advantage of what is her~ to develop our resources ourselves.

A1so7 by creating an awareness of what is here, our students will discover the geoqraphy of ~~e Province, will realize what the people are like in different parts of the Province and what some of the recreational and tourist attractions are. This may stimulate more mobility within the Province.

A second purpose that car.. be served by injecting more Newfoundland content and improving the quality of education is creating, bringing about a discovery among cur students of where we came from, of who our ancestors were, what they endured when they came to Newfoundland, those of our ancestors who came from across the seas, and will fostar a better understanding of ourselves. Thirdly, it will greatly aid in the preservation of our precious and unique culture and some of our music, our folklore, folk arts, some of which are threatened by influences from 740

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 297 NM - 1 MRS. VERGE: Cent:cal Canada or the United States, especially with television. A fourth benefit is ~~t it will encourage an appreciation among our students and among our people of our traditions. And fifth and perhaps most importantly, it will promote among ourselves a pride in ourselves and a better self-concept so that Newfoundlanders will be able to hold their heads up no matter where they are.

I can remember spending a year in Toronto in 1970-71 and was saddened to watch a couple of Newfoundlanders in Toronto who were very well qualified, intelligent, articulate people, who were ashamed to admit,or who tried to hide the fact that they were from Newfoundland because they did not want to subject themselves to ridicule or to ~ewfoundland jokes, '~en instead these people were shinning examples of Newfoundlanders and should have been proud to acknowledge their heritage.

So the main objective that I think we have to st:cive for in putting mcre material in our schools which is relevant to our own E'rovince,is improving the quality of education. But there are a couple of secondary objectives, or spin-offs which we also have to recognizeJone of which is encouraging local writers and artists and another of which is providing a sti'IIIUl.us to the local publishing industry. I was very pleased last week, or a couple of weeks ago, to be present at a submission made by some local publishers,in conjunction '~th a Canadian Publishers Association,to the Premier.

This set forth many very good suggestions which the Department of Education is now examining. Having examined the objectives that we are striving for, I would next like to take a look at the means of bringing about those objectives. These means are varied. We think immediately of the textbooks in the schools and the other required written materials in the curriculum. There is also supplementary 741.

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 297 NM - 2 MRS. VERGE: reading materials, school libraries. The use of technology, radio, school broadcasts, films and tapes, · television. Then we think of drama and musl.c, art, c:ravel progra~~~~~es, career guidance programmes and last, and I think most important, the teachers themselves, and the teachers'attitudes about our Province, their knowledge of the Province, and the way they go about presenting all the material in the curriculum.

I will examine what the present situation is because I think a lot of us have relativesly little knowledge about what the situation is now :in our schools, '!!..'ld take a look at what efforts are now underway to improve the situation. First textbooks: As a couple of hon. members have already mentioned 1 I think the main emphasis given to Newfoundland and Labrador content in the curriculum now is in grade v subjects. .- There is a grade Y geography for Newfouildland and Labrador where the 111ain text is geography of Newfoundland and Labrador by Summers and Summers.

Also on page five, the geography course focuses on our Province, the text being Newfoundland and Labrador, a brief history by aarris. In other grades there are Newfoundland materials in the curriculum now. Some of the texts include - from grade W geography 1 a unit on making pulp and paper in Corner Brook by Goff, and, let us see, in grade IX there is a unit in consumer mathematics~ which is Newfoundland oriented. Grade K. C:arth Science is a book produced in Nefoundland, rocks, minerals and scenery of :.tewfoundland.

Grade la geology, there is a unit with a text called Geology Of Newfoundland and Labrador, and in grade IX, in the history course.there is a text called Canada Since Confederation and Atlantic Perspective, which places Newfoundland history in a context of Canadian history. And there are quite a number of books and materials 742

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 298 GH-1 MS. VERGE: which are supplementary and/or prescribed.

Some of these include The Red Ochre Peoole by Marshall which is on the BeothucJts and a sup))J.emenea:ry cooit in the Grade 'V history course, a book on Elant' s Harbour in Grade !J geography, Leqends of a LOst Tribe, by O'Neill, supplementary reading to Grade V readinq, Maritime Archaic Indians , by Callan , a supplementary book to Grade ITI Canadian history, Dory Logs , a Newfoundland anthology which is prescribed in Grades VII and VIII, Baffles of Wind and Tide, it is prescrib~d for Grade X literature, Death on the Ice is prescribed for a ~ewfoundland unit in Grade X, and there are several more.

I have a couple of paqes here. Havinq said that, there has been a lot of effort in the ~epartment to review the curriculum in various subjects. The mcst significant review, I think, in the context of local lllllterials, is the review which was just rec~nt:lY completed by the social studies project, curriculum project. Social studies is a term which now encompasses subjects which were Jcnown as history, geoqraphy, physics and economics when I went through school. This a prime area for injecting more local content.

The social studies curriculum p"IOject has recommended a social studies p"IOqram starting in kinderqarten and ranging throuqh Grade X:I which would have a significant focus on the local environment. Under the proposal, it wculd start in kinder­ garten with a very local focus and then p"IOgress to a more global focus to high school. I would just like to read some of t.'le themes which are suqqested.

For kinderqarten, the theme sugqested is Livinq in the Immediate !nvironment; and then Grade I, Living Together at Home, at School and in the Neighbourhood, Grade II, Understanding and Appreciatinq the Local Community; Grade III, Relationships Between LOcal community and ot.'ler Communities in Newfoundland and Labrador; Grade ~.One's OWn CoiiiiiiUnity and Other World communities; Grade·.;, Our Province - ~ewfoundland and Labrador; Grade VI, Our Country - Canada; Grade VII , world CUlture; Grade VIII , Cities , Technology and Change; Grade !X, Our canadian Heritage; Grade x:. World Geography - A.

CUltural Approach; Grade XI, Democracy and Its Practice in Canada 743

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 298 r.H-2 MS. VE~: and the World; and then a suggestion for Grade XII ~hich is also being studied by a Grade XII commi~ee of to have core courses required on Newfoundland and Labrador in the context of Canada. so this kind of a proposal would offer a lot of scope for introducing more local content into the social studies pro~ram in our schools. Also, in the subject of biology, there is a program which will start this September for Grades x and XI with a significant emphasis on Newfoundland environment. But I would agree with the hen. member for Port au Port (Mr.

Hodder) that the injection of local material does not have to be confined to just a couple of subjects like history and geography but it can be incorporated into many subject areas, including math or home economics. The next mode for improving the quality of education by including 1110re local material would be school libraries. NOw under the present policy of the department, grants are made by tb.e department to school boards so that purchase of books for libraries is made by the boards themselves.

The department has purc.'lased a small nUIIIber of Newfoundland books whic:h it has distributed to school libraries in addition to the grants. One of these books is ~e J'!ook of Poetrv by Al Pittman, illustrated by Pam Hall 744 =

July 25, 1979 Tape 299 IB-1 MS. VERGE: but it was just a small number of books. Now the policy on school l.ibraries is going to be revi~ by the department. one area that we are examining in particular is one of the reco111111endations which was made by the canadian Publishers Association in its brief there a couple of weeks aqo, and that is the reco!IDIIendation that the government carry out a bulk purchase programme of locally published material for distribution to school libraries. And this ~oCuld primarily be material which would be supplementary to the school curriculum.

The next !DOCle that I will examine is radio, television and the use of other new technology. At present there is a programme of school broadcasts, CBC radio programmes. Quite a few of these are wri ttan and produced here in Newfoundland and focus on Newfoundland folklore and so on. There was a series last year, I believe, one on our Province and its people, a series of fifteen programmes. Another one on Newfoundland folkways, again fifteen programmes. I think some have recently been done for broadcast next year by some Newfoundlanders active in drama.

The use of television and other new technology is something that should be explored. The department fairly recently acquired some heritage films. These are films which depict people of historical significance to our Province,or events of particular note in our past. There is a film, for example, on Sir Wilfred Grenfell and another one on a famous nurse, Mary Selcott.

Other innovative means of introducing local content include a game, a type of word game with a map of Newfoundland and Labrador where each player progresses from one place of the Province to the next and then depending on where you are on the board you have to ~r questions about the place. I am not sure where the winner ends up. Some people on the West Coast might think that winners end up in St. John's. Now, some of the other means of injecting local content include the arts. Drama is very significant and I think we have done a lot in drama. The high school drama festivals are thriving.

They have been going on now for a few years. There are some 745

JUly 25, 1979 Tape 299 IB-2 MS. VEBGE: ten regional festivals and then the provincial festival which this year was held in Stephenville. And sanethl.ng that is particularly significant about that drama festival is that over half the plays produced were written locally 1 many of them by students. By way of an aside I should say that StephenvUle is becoming quite a center of drama.

I attending the closing ceremonies at the provincial dral!lil school there on saturday night and ·many of the participants in the school were teachers and they will be able to bring what they learned at the drama school back to their schools this coming year. Travel programmes are very important 1 I think, in exposing our students to the realities of our Province.

There are now student exchanges between the Island of Newfoundland and Labrador and there are also programmes ca=ied out by individual schools and buards where, for example, students come here to the Rouse of Assembly or music groups or sports teams get to travel around the Province. Career guidance is something that i s crucial and ,of course , there are career days in most schools and so on. The department is now encouraging a shifting emphasis in the field of guidance toward career guidance and away from personal development and so on.

Individual schools have taken initiative in developing material of particular relevance to the Province and a good example of that was St. Francis High School in aarbour Grace,which developed a course on the fishery, and apparently this was done largely through the initiative of the people in that school. But the programme developed there was approved by the department for use in the school curriculum as an alternate programme. I think the department recognizes that it has to encourage more of that kind of 746

.July 25, 1979 Tape 299 m-2 MS. VERGE: ten regional festivals and then the provincial festival which this yeil.r was held in Stephenville . And something that is particularly significant about that drama festival is that over half the plays produced were written locally 1 many of them l:ly students. By way of an aside I should say that Stephenville is becoming quite a center of drama.

I attending the closing ceremonies at the provincial drama school there on Saturday night and ·many of the participants in the school were teachers and they will be able to bring what they learned at the drama school back to their schools this coming year. Travel programmes are very important , I think 1 in exposing our students to the realities of our Province.

There are now student exchanges between the Island of Newfoundland and Labrador and there are also programmes carried out by individual schools and boards where, for example, students come here to the aouse of Assembly or music groups or sports teams get to travel around the Province. Career guidance is something that is crucial and ,of course, there are career days in most schools and so on. The department is now encouraging a shifting emphasis in the field of guidance toward career guidance and away from personal development and so on.

Individual schools have taken initiative in developing material of partic'!Jlar relevance to the Province and a good example of that was st. Francis High School in Harbour Grace,which developed a course on the fishery, and apparently this was done largely through the initiative of the people in that school. But the programme developed there was approved by the department for use in the school curriculum as an alternate programme. I think the department recognizes that it has to encourage more of that kind of 746

July 25, 1979 MR. L. VERGE: teachers in schools • Tape No. 300 SD - l initiative on the part of individual In conclusion, I would. like to say that I would. recoqni:.z:e that the lcey is not the written material or the films or so on bllt it is the teachers. The teachers have to be stimulated to havinq a positive attitude toward our Province, to ba.vinq a comprehensive lalcwled.qe about the reality of the Province and to present material in all su.bj acts in such a way as to enqender ;?ride in beinq part of this Province.

To foster this kind of positive attitude on the part of teacl:'.ers, ! tb.ink we have to look at so= kind of inservice traininq proqramme for the teachers. I would like tc tb.ank the hon. member for St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter) aqain fer puttinc; this motion on the Order Paper. I recoc;ni:.z:e it as a crucial area for exploration and wcrk by the Department of Education.. Thank you. SOME !:!ON. MEMBERS ., MR. SPEAKER.: (Butt) SOME HON. t£MBERS : MR. T. LUSH: Bear, near. The acn. member for Te=a Nova. Hear, hear. Mr.

Speaker, let me say first of all, in terms of a resolution, that this is the '"ealcest and the IIICSt inept ·resolution ever presented before this Bouse. !1R. FLIGHT: Hear, hear. MR. T. LUSH: It reminds one of someone wantinq somethinc; to be done but afraid tc qo about <ioinc; it. MR. FLIGHT: Bear, hear. MR. T. LUSH: A resolution, Mr. Speaker, is somethinc;, in its

preamble 1 that should be definite and precise and in tb.e action that it expects 1 to be very definite, to be very prec.ise, to be very exquisite, there should be no dou.bt left at all as to what action tile resolution d&JDands. There should be no ands, ifs, buts or maybes about ~;e resolution, it should be <iefinite and precise. New, let us look at a couple of 747

July'. 25, 1979 Tape No. 300 so - 2 MR. T. LOSH: resolutions just to show how ~o~eak this resolution really is. Let us look at the one that ~o~e dealt ~o~ith last week presented by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. s.

Neary) •- "Be it resolved that a Special CQmmittee of the House of Assembly be appointed i.mmeliiatelyN - be 'appointed 1 - cgt that t.be government be requested or that someone be requested to set up this - that it be appointed immad.iately ana Nto lay down guidelines" - not to suggest t.'lat we lay down guidelines, or that maybe 111e lay down guidelines, or tila.t t."le goveriiiiient be encouraged to lay down guidelines. :o~r. Spealc.er, ;.t is definite; it asks for a defi.n.ite course of action.

The resolution that we are going to deal with next week, a similar one, by the hon. member for Trinity - Bay de Verde (Mr. F. Rowe) - a definite, says: "that 1o1e fully debate" - not that ~o~e urge the gove:nment to debate, or that we encourage the government to d~te, nothing wishy-washy about it but that we fully de.bate and tba.t we coma up with proposals.. This · resolution here, Mr. Speaker, is IJCth.ing. It is nothing. It 5ays nothing •. Now, obviously, the hon. member wm presented this resolution does not agree with the !tin.ister of Euucation (.Ms. L.

Verge), who just indicated all of the work that the department was doinq to ensure that we got the proper curriculum materials in the sc,bgols. The hen. IDember, obviously, dou.bts that this is being dcne.and he,o.bviously, cioes oct beliave that it is their duty to read the material. What he is saying is that the people in the Department of Education are cgt reading their material, soma salesman is coming in and qiving them the books and they are going out and saying, 'these are the .books you must read' without reading them. Additionally, Mr.

Speaker, there is cgthing in this resolution wh.ich is going to ensure that if · people read the material that they are going to come up with the conclusion, or going to come up with a conclusion one way or the other that there is sufficient material there to bring about the lcind of cultural and 748

July 25, l979 Tape So . 300 S1) - 3 MR. T. LUSH historical ute.riaJ.s that the bon. member waats tbllre because there is nc way to really analyze what is 110inq on i.a $dl00ls 2aD this po.i.nt ' of view, to read the ma.terials. o.bviousl.y, the member has lost all c:on~t with eclucation. MR. ll. MOOUS: Rear, !leU. MR. T. LUSH: He does 110t lalow what i.s going' on. I.n order to cio that you have '1Qt to go into the schools and see what they are cio.i.nq) you see, bec:ause tociay we live in the most challenqinq tilll8 in educat.ian and the liiQSt optimistic time. 749

July 25, 1979 Tape No. 301 MR. LUSH: The only thing I am sorry about by being a Member is that I cannot be out in the classroom day after day working ~th the kind of opportunitl.es tnat we have today and the kind of flexibility that we have. Teachers are doing all sorts of work in this area but you cannot identify it by reading the materials. Obviously the member believes that the only thing you do in school is what is prescribed in the particular text book, that is what he believes is going on,when all of this work is going on , through projects and activities.

And we cannot evaluate what the schools are doing from this particular motion. But, Mr. Speaker, having said ehat I agree with the spirit of the motion 1 I agree with the spirit 1 NM - l I do not agree with the syntax of it because as I have