Manitoba Hansard — 27 April 2011 (Sitting 36, 39th Legislature, 5th Session)

39-5-36

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXIII No. 36 – 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, April 27, 2011 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Wellington N.D.P.

MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon.

Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WIEBE, Matt Concordia N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Inkster Vacant Lac du Bonnet

1053 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, April 27, 2011 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee t o f r a m e s u c h l a w s a s may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 20–The Defibrillator Public Access Act Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I move, seconded by the Mini ster of Family Services and Consumer Affairs (Mr. Mackintosh), that Bill 20, The Defibrillator Public Access Act;

Loi sur l'accès du public aux défibr illateurs, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Oswald: Cardiac arrest can strike quickly and without warning, but access to a defibrillator can dramatically increase the o dds of survival.

That is why we're introducing The Defibrillator Public Access Act, which would not only require defibrillators to be installed and maintained in public places most at risk for cardiac arrests such as high-traffic public schools, airports and recreation centres, but also require signage and registration to support rapid public access to these defibrillators in an emergency situation. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 25–The Inter-jurisdictional Support Orders Amendment Act Hon.

Andrew Swan (Min ister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Family Services and Consumer Affairs (Mr. Mackintosh), that Bill 25, The Inter- jurisdictional Support Orders Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'établissement et l'exécution réciproque des ordonnance s alimentaires, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Swan: Mr. Speaker, this bill will enhance the process by which child and spousal support orders are obtained, varied and recognized for enforcement in cases between Manitobans and people in other jurisdictions in Canada and elsewhere. This bill is another step in helping families to receive the financial supp ort they need and they deserve. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] PETITIONS PTH 16 and PTH 5 North–Traffic Signals Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste.

Rose): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: The junction of PTH 16 and PTH 5 north is an increasingly busy intersection which is used by motorists and pedestrians alike. The Town of Neepawa ha s raised concerns with the Highway Traffic Board about safety levels at this intersection. The Town of Neepawa has also passed a resolution requesting that Manitoba Infrastructure and Transportation install traffic lights at this intersection in order to increase safety.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to consider making the installation of traffic lights at the intersection of PTH 16 and PTH 5 north a priority project in order to help protect the safety of the motorists and pedestrians who use it. And this petition is signed by G. Kasprick, M. Heureux, J. Holmberg and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House.

1054 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 Auto Theft–Court Order Breaches Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: On December 11th of 2009, in Winnipeg, Zdzislaw Andrzejczak was killed when the car that he was driving collided with a stolen vehicle. The death of Mr. Andrzejczak, a husband and a father, along with too many other deaths and injuries involving stolen vehicles, was a preventable tragedy.

Many of those accused in fatalities involving stolen vehicles were previously known to police and identified as chronic and high-risk car thieves who had court orders against them. Chronic car thieves pose a risk to the safety of all Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To request the Minister of Justice to consider ensuring that all court orders for car thieves are vigorously monitored and enforced. And to request the Minister of Justice to considering ensuring that all breaches of court orders on car thieves are reported to police and vigorously prosecuted. And, Mr.

Speaker, this petition is signed by V. Nguyen, K. Duncan, C. Xiaoni and many, many others. Convicted Auto Thieves–Denial of MPI Benefits Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: In Manitoba, a car thief convicted of stealing a vehicle involved in a car accident is eligible to receive compensation and assistance for personal injury from Manitoba Public Insurance. Too many Manitoban families have had their lives tragically altered by motor vehicle accidents involving car thieves and stolen vehicles.

It is an injustice to victims, their families and law-abiding Manitobans that MPI premiums are used to benefit car thieves involved in these accidents. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To request that the Minister of Justice deny all MPI benefits to a person fo r injuries received in an accident if he or she is co nvicted of stealing a motor vehicle involved in the accident. And this petition is signed by G. Claxton, B. Thompson, E. Janzen and many, many more fine Manitobans. Bipole III–Cost to Manitoba Families Mr.

Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba Hydro has been directed by the provincial government to construct its next high voltage direct transmission line, Bipole III, down the west side of Manitoba. This will cost each family of four in Manitoba $11,748 more than an east-side route, which is also shorter and more reliable.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to build the Bipole III transmission line on the shorter and more reliable east side of Lake Winnipeg in order to save each Manitoba family of four $11,748. And this is signed by E. Dyck, B. Dyck, K. Guenther and many, many other fine Manitobans. * (13:40) TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to table the third quarter internal financial statements for the Communities Economic Development Fund.

I'm also pleased to table the Supplementary Information on the Estimates of the Department of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, 2011-2012. Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to table the Supplementary Information for the Manitoba Finance Department, 2011-2012. Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Labour and Immigration): I'm pleased to table the Supplementary Information for Estimates for the Department of Labour and Immigration for 2011-2012.

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1055 MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Flooding and Ice Jams Update Hon. Christine Melnic k (Minister of Water Stewardship): I'll provide a very brief update for the House on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Ashton) on the flood situation as it continues to unfold around the province. Significant water seepag e into the crawl space at Wawanesa School has prompted its precautionary closure while an engineering assessment of the building's integrity is conducted.

Engineers are on-site today and the Province is working with the community and the school division to assess the facility and ensure disrup tions to students and staff are minimized. I can also advise that the Souris River is now at crest in Wawanesa, but water levels are expected to remain high for a few days. There have been additional precautionary evacuations, including 20 more people from the RM of Ritchot, bringing the total number of evacuees from that RM to 201. Three families, totalling nine people in the St-Lazare–in St-Lazare have also been evacuated.

Across the province the number of evacuees is 1,984. I'd like to take this opportunity to again thank the hundreds of people working for the Province, municipalities and organizations such as the Red Cross for their ongoing hard work fighting this flood and protecting Manitoba families. We do not always hear about their day-to-day efforts, but we know that they continue to work very long hours to ensure flood protection is in place where needed, water levels are calculated and evacuated families have the support they need.

On behalf of the Legislative Assembly and all Manitobans, I would like to, again, pass on our gratitude. Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for the latest update. We recognize that this is a protracted flood event whose impact will be felt for many weeks. Flood watches and warnings continue in some regions and people must remain vigilant. I know many in western Manitoba are keeping an eye on the operation of the Shellmouth Dam and the impacts on the Assiniboine River.

Disruptions continue at a number of levels, be it due to people having had to evacuate due to loss of road access or, in the case of the Wawanesa School, due to the disruption on the classes caused by water seepage under the school. We know that agricultural producers are waiting to get on their land and start sowing this year's crop and we hope those delays will not be protracted. Again, I thank the countless staff at all levels of government, with non-government organizations and many, many volunteers for working on the front lines and behind the scenes to help Manitobans cope with this flood. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask for leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for the statement and the update, particularly with regard to the situation in Wawanesa and the situation with regard to evacuees, which is now close to 2,000 people.

It would have been helpful if there'd been a little more clarity about the si tuation and the concerns downstream of the Shellmouth Dam and a little more information about when the evacuees might be able to return and what the expectations are in this respect. I think there's a lot of ongoing concern, particularly among those people who have been displaced, about how long they are going to be away from their homes and what is going to be happening.

Certainly I want to express my concern and sympathy for those who have been displaced and also my thanks to all those who are contributing in one way or another in helping to fight and deal with the situation caused by the flooding. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today, we have Vera Eriksen from Karasjok, Norway, and also accompanying her is my sister Dorothy Tootoo from Rankin Inlet, Nunavut.

And also in the public gallery we have from Neelin High School 36 grade 9 students under the direction of Ms. Kerri Phillips. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Caldwell).

1056 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Manitoba Hydro Bipole III Export Sale Viability (Saskatchewan) Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, for several months now as part of the discussion over the government's decision to build the next power line 54 per cent longer than it needs to be at a cost of billions to Manitobans, the minister and the Premier (Mr.

Selinger) have been telling Manitobans that they– that the reason for this decision to go down the long west side is to enable power sales to Saskatchewan. I want to ask the minister who has been making these statements, as has the Premier, whether they are going to stick with this rationale for the long west-side line or whether they're prepared to acknowledge today that they were mistaken. Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Min ister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Mr.

Speaker, I can tell the member opposite that what we are doing is building Manitoba Hydro and building the economy of this province. Mr. Speaker, the members opposite, when they were in power, chose to mothball. They chose to mothball Hydro and ignored the fact that we needed another line for security of supply to Manitobans. They chose to ignore that. We're moving forward. We are building a line for reliability of supply, and we are looking at–for sales. We're looking for sa les south. We're looking for sales west, to the north and to the east. Mr.

Speaker, we have the potential in this province to grow our hydro, to get more revenues and resources from it and employ people. Members opposite just don't get it. Mr. McFadyen: And the problem that the minister has is that she said in a letter to the editor that a major power sale to Saskatchewan can be facilitated by having Bipole III on the west side of Manitoba. The Premier (Mr. Selinger), Mr. Speaker, on CJOB radio said that it's–there's going to be demands for power in Saskatchewan. A west-side line would facilitate that by being closer to markets, no question about it. Now, the problem, Mr.

Speaker, is that those statements are completely wrong and that the engineers who have made up the coalition, including Len Bateman, former chairman of Manitoba Hydro, wrote in response to those statements that these statements are wrong. They're without any engineering endorsement. DC is used primarily for point-to-point transmission. Any significant extraction of power from this line for export to Saskatchewan would render the line useless for its intended purpose. I want to ask the minister if she will now apologize to Manitobans for making such misleading statements about their long west-side directive, Mr.

Speaker. * (13:50) Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, we know from the comments made by the member opposite exactly where he would go with Manitoba Hydro and where he would go with Bipole and where he would go with the converters. We know that the members opposite would drive Hydro into the ground to the point where it had to be privatized. That's exactly their agenda. They want to privatize that corporation so their friends can make money, just like their friends did with MTS. Mr.

Speaker, we have had discussions with Saskatchewan and we will continue to have discussions with Saskatchewan, as we will with other jurisdictions. There is huge potential for our hydro in the north, but there is potential for green energies as well, wind energy as well as power. And we will work to build the Manitoba economy, but we will– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. McFadyen: Well, Mr. Speaker, and again the minister is evading the question.

The letter that was written less than two weeks ago was signed by Ken Adam, Ph.D.; Len Bateman, former chairman of Manitoba Hydro; Art Derry, vice-president, Manitoba Hydro; Dave Ennis, executive director of the Association of Professional Engineers. It was signed, Mr. Speaker, by Garland Laliberte, dean emeritus of Engineering, University of Manitoba; Glenn Morris, Ph.D., associate dean of Engineering; Will Tishinski, vice-president of power systems planning, Manitoba Hydro. And what do they say, Mr. Speaker? What they say is, and I quote: Furthermore, it would be prohibitively costly because of the high cost of

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1057 conversion. The minister is spinning a feeble argument to justify the west-side route. I want to ask the minister: Why does she continue to spin, in the words of these eminent engineers, such feeble arguments in order to put thousands of dollars of unnecessary costs on the people of Manitoba? Why does this minister think she knows more than all these eminent engineers? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition continues to ignore the real reason for building Bipole III.

The r eal reason for building Bipole III is for reliability of supply and for security of–for Manitobans. Mr. Speaker, the members opposite know this. They choose to put all kinds of numbers out about the cost of it, the numbers that are not true, because they want to inflate those numbers to the point where Manitobans would–might–where we might have to cancel the project as the members opposite want and privatize it. That's what the members opposite want. You know, Mr. Speaker, those engineers that have talking–he's talking about did hydro in a very different way. They flooded the north. They didn't consult.

We are working in– Mr. Speaker: Order. Manitoba Hydro Bipole III Export Sale Viability (Saskatchewan) Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, it's obvious the minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro does not have a head for finance or business. She is much more comfortable with smoke and mirrors. She has been justifying her goofy decision of the west-side Bipole III using power sales to Saskatchewan. Mr. Speaker, power sales to Saskatchewan in 2008 were a grand total of $6 million. How can the minister spend $4.1 billion to generate $6 million in revenue? Hon.

Rosann Wowchuk (Min ister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Well, let's just run down this corporation a little bit more, Mr. Speaker. Let's keep running down Manitoba Hydro. That's what the members opposite want to do. They want to run down Manitoba Hydro and move it on the way to privatization. That's the agenda of the members opposite. Ours is very different, Mr. Speaker. We want to build Manitoba Hydro.

We want to find new markets, and members opposite don't want to believe that there are coal plants in Saskatchewan that will be–not be licensed again and Saskatchewan is looking for a supply of new, clean energy. They may have looked at nuclear; they're not looking at nuclear now. They are looking at Manitoba, and in Manitoba we are building the west-side line for reliability of supply, and we are negotiating to get more sales of hydro for Manitoba. Mr. Borotsik: Mr. Speaker, the minister didn't prove me wrong. It's all smoke and mirrors. Mr.

Speaker, in March of this year, in the Swan Valley Star and Times, the minister said: If we have the power on the west side of the province and if there is a sale west, we would have a line on that side of the province. Well, that's obvious. Well, Mr. Speaker, here's another myth shattered. If they have the sales, if they can sell to Saskatchewan, they would have a line on the west side. Here's another myth shattered. A DC bipole cannot–I repeat, cannot–be used to send power to Saskatchewan without building a $1.5-billion converter.

How much power would Saskatchewan have to buy in order to justify an additional $1.5 billion for conversion equipment? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm really pleased that the member opposite now recognizes the importance of converters, because members opposite want to cancel the converters at the north and the end of south Bipole III. But now he recognizes, and he will remember when he was at committee that Mr. Bob Brennan did say–the CEO of Manitoba Hydro said that it was possible to build another converter. But members opposite, Mr. Speaker, want to run Hydro into the ground. They don't want to build it.

They don't want to build any more dams and they don't want reliability of supply for Manitobans. Our economy is growing. We need power, Mr. Speaker, and we're building it, and we're building a line to get clean power to the Manitobans that need it in order to keep low energy rates. Mr. Borotsik: Mr. Speaker, this minister is destroying Manitoba Hydro and its credibility.

1058 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 Mr. Speaker, in March of this year we asked Manitoba Hydro to provide us with the export sales to Saskatchewan for 2009 and 2010. We know that they had $6 million in sales in 2008 but, surprise, surprise, we were refused that information. Were the sales in Sa skatchewan for 2009 and 2010 less than they were in 2008? What's the minister hiding? Why won't she tell us what Saskatchewan is buying right now? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I want to–the member may not know this, but I want to remind him that just recently in Brandon we had a joint Cabinet meeting with the Saskatchewan government, and at that meeting we signed an agreement for more power sales to Saskatchewan. The members opposite, Mr. Speaker, do not want to recognize that Saskatchewan is looking for clean energy, and they don't want to recognize that Manitoba is producing a lo t of clean energy. We're producing the energy for Manitobans.

We're going to keep them–the rates low for Manitobans and we're going to develop markets, whether they be to the east, to the west, to the north or the south. We will build Manitoba Hydro, not drive it into the ground and privatize it like the members opposite would do. Manitoba Hydro Bipole III Municipal Concerns Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Mr. Speaker, the rural municipalities of Westbourne, North Norfolk, South Norfolk, Grey and MacDonald have all passed resolutions opposing Bipole III coming through their respective municipalities. Why is the Minister of Finance and this government ignoring their concerns?

Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Min ister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Mr. Speaker, the member opposite went out and told people how they–that they shouldn't have Bipole on their farms, that it was bad for them. The member opposite doesn't seem to recognize that all of us have power lines coming across our farms at some point. That is how we get the energy to the people that need it the most. That's how we did it. Power is produced in the north. We have to bring it down to where the majority of the population is, and it has to cross farmland. It crosses farmland now, Mr. Speaker.

It crosses forests but, you know, the members opposite have this idea that they're going to put it down the east side, carve out the boreal forest. Mr. Pedersen: Mr. Speaker, the AMM, the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, passed a resolution at their convention last November opposing the western, longer, more expensive and environmentally damaging route. Why is the Minister of Finance (Ms. Wowchuk) and this government ignoring their concerns? * (14:00) Ms. Wowchuk: Mr.

Speaker, when the–this government–when–of the day, in 2007, made the decision that we were going to go down the west side instead of the east side of the province, that was before an election. People knew about that. But I can tell you one thing we did, Mr. Speaker. When we became government, we equalized the rates of electricity across the country–province. Members opposite, when they were in government, charged rural Manitobans mo re for their power than what we charge now.

We equalized the rates, and we will continue to–and Manitoba Hydro will continue to work with those municipalities that have questions, and they will continue to do the consultation to determine the final route of the line, and we will and Manitoba Hydro will build the power line for reliability of supply for Manitobans and to ensure we get power to export markets. Mr. Pedersen: Mr. Speaker, with the proposed western route for Bipole III, this government is creating a 100,000-acre economic dead zone across southern Manitoba. Landowners and municipalities will bear the brunt of this penalty.

Why is the Minister of Finance and this government ignoring their concerns? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, you know, there's a few things here. First of all, there are–rural Manitobans want to see our economy diversify. They want to see a value added to our agriculture products. For that to happen we need power and we need more power than we have right now. We need that reliability of supply. Mr.

Speaker, the member s opposite, he doesn't talk about wind farms either, wind farms that are in southern Manitoba that farmers have welcomed as a way to generate clean energy and add value to their– for their communities.

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1059 There's wind farms, Mr. Speaker. There is the opportunity to diversify our economy and add to the agriculture products and to ensure that Manitoba Hydro rates remain the lowest in the country and that we have the reliable supp ly, an issue the members opposite should've addressed in the '90s and they ignored. Taxation Personal Income Tax Exemptions Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, before 2007, Manitoba's basic personal exemption was competitive with Saskatchewan, and today our basic personal exemption is half of that in Saskatchewan.

I'd like to ask the Minister of Finance: What is the minister's five-year plan to bring us back into being in a competitive position with our neighbour Saskatchewan? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Finance): The member opposite refers to the Saskatchewan budget. I hope, Mr. Speaker, she will look at the

section of the budget where Saskatchewan actually talks about Manitoba and says the cost of living in Manitoba is lower than Saskatchewan's. And if you look–she looks closely at the budget, she will see that in almost every category Manitoba is in first place. When you take into consideration all of the tax credits we've put in place, our low rates for hydro, our–all of the things, our cost of living is lower in this province than it is in Saskatchewan and the– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Wowchuk: –Saskatchewan government has pointed that out. Mr. Speaker: Order.

It's getting very difficult to hear. I'm going to ask the co-operation of honourable members, please. We need to be able to hear the questions and the answers. The honourable minister still has time. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, I hope the member will look at the whole budget and look at the different tax cuts that we have made, and, in fact, this puts over $60 million back into Manitobans' pocket. I hope she'll look at the way we fund education, the money we're putting into municipalities. All of those things keep Manitoba– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr.

Speaker, I was asking about the basic personal exemption, and the fact of the matter is Saskatchewan–we contin ue to fall further and further and further behind our neighbour Saskatchewan, and that is the policies of this NDP government. So I'm simply asking the minister: Where is the plan to ensure that we come back into being in a competitive position when it comes to the personal exemption rates in Manitoba? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, I guess I would remind the member and encourage her to look at the Saskatchewan budget. She' s looked at ours and she thinks it's not a good budget.

But maybe if she looked at Saskatchewan, Mr. Speaker, then she will see that Saskatchewan does look at Manitoba as a very affordable place to live. We have made changes in this budget. We are increasing the basic exemption, Mr. Speaker, and we're making those exemptions over four years, but the member opposite should also look at the other exemptions that we're making–for caregivers, recognizing the value of people's work in their homes looking after people, look at all of the other reductions, and that's what she has to take into consideration. You can't just take one line out. Saskatchewan doesn't do that.

They recognize that Manitoba is a more affordable place to live. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Mr. Speaker, it's obvious from the minister's responses that, in fact, there is no plan in place to make us more competitive with Saskatchewan, and I think it's incumbent upon a government that has set aside what is a five-year supposed plan to put us back on track in this province to ensure that they have something in place that makes sure that we are competitive with our neighbour Saskatchewan.

I'm simply asking the minister, and I'll ask her again: Where is the plan to ensure that we remain competitive or we are put back into a competitive position once again with our neighbour Saskatchewan? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, we chose a different route than the opposition. The opposition, when we had this economic downturn, wanted to take $500 million out of the budget. They were going to cut health care. They were going to make all kinds of

1060 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 reckless cuts. They wouldn't have been able to make the kind–the tax credits that she is talking about if we had–if they had taken out their $500 million. Mr. Speaker, we have chosen a different route, and we have put in place a five-year plan that will protect front-line services, that will keep people working, that will give the opportunity for our children to get the education, for people to get apprentice training. We will make investments in all of those, in police, Mr. Speaker, that the members opposite vote against all the time, and we will move– Mr.

Speaker: Order. Taxation Personal Income Tax Exemptions Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba has the lowest basic personal exemption west of New Brunswick. If this NDP government had indexed our basic personal exemption, we would be at $8,562 instead of $8,384 this year. This is at least a little closer to the other provinces in central and western Canada. Does the Minister of Finance have a plan to index our basic personal exemption to inflation, Mr. Speaker? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Finance): Mr.

Speaker, since we have taken office, we have increased the exemption several times, and the members opposite have voted against all the–them every time. And when you do a comparison of what indexing–moving on indexing versus the exemptions that we're putting in place, and the amendment–and the credits that we've put in place, Mr. Speaker, this budget puts more money into the pockets of average Manitobans than the proposals of the member opposite.

I can assure the member we looked at it very carefully and we made announcements in this budget that keeps Manitoba competitive and puts more money into the pockets of the average Manitoban. Mrs. Taillieu: Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, we're still way behind. Inflation drives up the cost of living every year. It would be only fair if at least basic personal exemptions would follow inflation and increase every year. The basic personal exemption in Manitoba is, however, not indexed. Why not, Mr. Speaker? Ms. Wowchuk: And as I said in my previous answer, Mr.

Speaker, we, when we're putting a budget together, we look at every option that we can to put–to be–to put in place the best opportunities, to put money into the average Manitoban's pockets. Mr. Speaker, we put in place property tax credits; we put in additional credits in for seniors; we've changed–put more–additional money into education. Every one of those changes, the members opposite continue to vote against them. Instead, their agenda would be come–to come back into balance all in one year. That's what we've heard from the members opposite. They would take out $500 million.

That would not allow for any increases in credits for Manitobans. We would rather work with the matter– with Manitobans. * (14:10) Mrs. Taillieu: Mr. Speaker, indexing the basic personal exemption comes at no cost to this government so desperate for cash. British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario, Québec and New Brunswick all have higher basic personal exemptions, Mr. Speaker. By not indexing to inflation, the minister has allowed us to fall behind British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario, Québec and New Brunswick. Why are members opposite only satisfied when we are among the worst in Canada, Mr.

Speaker? Ms. Wowchuk: And I would remind the member, as well, to look at the Saskatchewan budget, Mr. Speaker, where in the Saskatchewan budget the Saskatchewan government compares Manitoba to Saskatchewan when it comes to our tax advantage, and Manitoba ranks higher than Saskatchewan in the Saskatchewan budget. So I would encourage members to look at that and to look very carefully of what our costs of living are here in Manitoba and what they are in Saskatchewan. And I would remind the member also that we were just talking about Hydro, and if they had their way, Mr.

Speaker, and they went to market rates, as the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. McFadyen) has talked about, our cost of living would be higher. We would not be in the place we are by keeping Manitoba Hydro as a Crown corporation instead of going to market rates and privatizing.

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1061 Provincial Debt Servicing Costs Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, the governor of the Bank of Canada, economists, Canadian banks are all predicting that interest rates will be on the rise this year. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Finance indicate how much more it will cost to service the debt if there is a one percentage point increase in interest rates in Canada? Hon.

Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Finance): And I remember the member opposite last year talking about our debt services and the doom and gloom that we weren't planning properly for it, Mr. Speaker, and, in fact, if she looks at the numbers from last year's budget, our debt servicing were–we did not use all the money and our debt-servicing costs under this administration are half of what they were under the previous administration. And I can assure the member that the people in the Finance Department are very good staff, Mr.

Speaker, and they have planned and have built into this budget the possibility of an interest rate, and that's part of this budget. There is prudent management looking at the possibility of an increase in interest rates, and it's built into the budget, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Stefanson: So I guess there is a plan, Mr. Speaker, in place that will cause a rise in the cost of servicing the debt in Manitoba. Is that what the minister is saying then? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, the member opposite knows that we do have a five-year plan. It's all projected in the five-year plan of what the anticipated costs will be.

We know that we have been, through good management, able to reduce the debt-servicing costs from 13 cents on the dollar to 6 cents on the dollar. That has saved a lot of money and there has been good management. But I can also say to the member opposite there is a recognition that interest rates could get–go up, Mr. Speaker, and I can assure the member that when the budget was put together, that was taken into consideration. Mrs. Stefanson: Interest rates are on the rise, and so is the debt in our province because of this mismanagement of this NDP government. Mr.

Speaker, the important thing in putting a five-year plan in place is to predict and make predictions for interest rates rising. And the bank of– the governor of the Bank Canada, economists, major Canadian banks are all saying that interest rates are on the rise. I'm simply asking the minister if she could indicate, for this House today and for all Manitobans, what it will mean in the upcoming budget if there is a 1 per cent interest rate increase in Canada, Mr. Speaker? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr.

Speaker, and I will say to the member again, that since we've taken office we have worked very hard to ensure that our debt-servicing costs were down, and since we have taken office we have reduced it from 13 cents on the dollar in 1999 down to 6 cents on the dollar. That has been prudent management and I know the member opposite last year was saying that we weren't planning for interest rate increases. We managed well last year, Mr. Speaker. In fact, our debt for–debt-servicing costs were reduced. We are projecting that th ere could be an increase in debt-servicing costs.

That's part of this budget, but I can also say to the member that we are in better shape than we ever were in the '90s, Mr. Speaker. Water Management Policy Impact on Farmers Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, almost every year for the last 12 years, farmers in southern Manitoba have suffered large losses because this government has failed to develop and deliver an adequate water management policy.

Whether it's failing to clear the provincial drains, failing to build the water retention or drains in the first place or even failing to spend the time planning to develop an adequate management policy, this government has failed to provide the needed security to farmers with the result that losses on farms continue to be very high. The impact has been devastating to farmers who would rather plant and harvest a crop than have to rely on insurance. Why has the government failed so badly to deliver an adequate water management policy for our province? Hon. Steve Ashton (Acting Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr.

Speaker, I think it's important that the member look at what this province has done. Over the last 10 years we've invested a billion dollars into flood protection, flood mitigation. That includes an investment in the expansion of the floodway, and

1062 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 I know the member opposite had two positions on that. But we've invested in community ring dikes that in 2009 resulted in only one home in the Red River Valley being impacted directly by water. We are also investing, after a decade of neglect in the 1990s significantly in capital in terms of our drainage system, including retention, and in terms of maintenance. I would caution the member, we've got very high flood levels this year, but this government has been committed. We've put our money where our mouth is in terms of those investments. Mr.

Gerrard: We're talking here about farmers. The government has failed even to clean up the road–the ditches beside provincial highways, failed to clean many provincial ditches, and farmers in this province have suffered disproportionately. Mr. Speaker, we live in a world where farming is increasingly sophisticated, where farmers are making very large investments in order to put their crops in the ground, and yet this government has let farmers down, and too many have seen excellent crops waterlogged or washed away.

Crop insurance may help a little bit, but it will never replace a good crop and it was never intended to replace a good crop. I ask: When will this government make sure that farmers are properly considered and supported with a decent water management effort in this province? Hon. Stan Struthers (Min ister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Well, I very much appreciate the Liberal me mber for River Heights finally, in this House, getting a question on agriculture. That's great, but there's a distinct lack of care from the people who pretend to support rural Manitoba across the way. Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to refer the member for River Heights to an announcement that we made along with the federal minister up in the northern Interlake, an area where–that has been hit very hard by rains and by excess moisture. And don't belittle the amount of good that Excess Moisture Insurance has done in this province, but this government has taken the approach that we want to help farmers to prevent that from the–in the first place. So the federal minister and myself announced a project in the Bifrost area– Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr.

Gerrard: Farmers have been sharing their stories with me and I've visited many of them. Whether it's in the Interlake, in southwestern Manitoba, recently in Strathclair, in southeastern Manitoba, the problems of excessive moisture continue to plague farmers because this government has done such a poor job of water management. The losses, in fact, due to poor water management during the years of this government have averaged more than $50 million a year. A fraction of that money spent wisely could've made a big difference in decreasing farmers' losses and helping farmers.

There are many countries with wetter climates than Manitoba which do far better than here. Why has this government and this Minister of Agriculture done so poorly for our farmers? * (14:20) Mr. Struthers: Well, the member goes on about the amount of money that we could've been spending and the rest of it, and it's been pointed out that he's got two positions on infrastructure, such as the floodway. I want to point out that all the payments that he was complaining about, that have gone to farmers, he's voted against, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, we get the job done when we co-operate with all levels of government and the farmers themselves. And that's what we've done in places like Bifrost. Myself and colleagues from this side of the House have got together with municipalities and with farmers to plan a way forward. We work through the conservation districts on a watershed basis that does provide help for farmers, and every member of this House can point to an example in their own constituencies, rural members especially, of how that is working. Plessis Road Underpass Project Status Mr.

Bidhu Jha (Radisson): Since being elected in 2003, I have been listening to my constituents on local issues, then working hard with the city councillor and with our government and have accomplished a lot. I would like to request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to give some light on the very important project in Transcona and Radisson that is the Plessis Road underpass. Could the minister give us some information on how are we moving forward on this important project?

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1063 Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, it’s a great pleasure to reconfirm on the public record that this government is committed to the building of the Plessis Road underpass. It was in the budget that the members opposite voted against. We announced it last week formally. It could be funded out of the Building Canada Fund or any federal infrastructure program. I want to thank the member for Radisson and thank the member for Transc ona (Mr. Reid) for their efforts.

I also want to put on the public record that I certainly welcome the efforts of the MP for the area, Jim Maloway, who has got a commitment from Jack Layton that an NDP federal government would fund the Plessis Road underpass. I know the Conservative government has said they can't make a commitment during the election but we look forward to building that underpass. Once again the NDP is committed to northeast Winnipeg. We're committed to all Manitobans. Flood Mitigation Program Individual Properties Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr.

Speaker, just a few minutes ago I heard the Minister of Infrastructure talk about only one individual being impacted by the 2009 flood. Mr. Speaker, as we know, the flooding in the Red River has become a regular event in recent years. The severity of the event differs from year to year, and we react acco rdingly to protect the livestock, people and property. A number of properties received an additional floodproofing after the '97 flood, but there's still some that need to be done. One such case involves the property of James and Dale Buhler, west of Emerson, and this situation was identified in the 2009 flood.

The minister's well aware of it. Mr. Speaker, will the minister responsible acknowledge that the Buhler property requires flood mitigation work and will he do that today? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Well, Mr. Speaker, I do thank the member for acknowledging the success that the province of Manitoba–and this is something we should all be proud of–has had in terms of flood mitigation. One of the reasons we've significantly reduced the damage in the Red River Valley is because of the flood mitigation program that was put in place after 1997.

I want to indicate, by the way, that after 2009 we did engage the federal government and they did agree to a flood mitigation program. We focused north of Winnipeg, on the Red River Valley, which was hard hit in 2009, but it is not geographically exclusively focused only on that area. And I can assure the member, one thing we will be doing after this flood event, as we've done after every other major flood event, is we will be making sure that we sit down and assess any and all types of mitigation that we can move on, Mr. Speaker. That's the Manitoba experience.

We learn from that experience and we move ahead on mitigation. Mr. Graydon: Mr. Speaker, these are hollow words to the James and Dale Buhler family. He has acknowledged the importance of the permanent flood protection works, and yet the Buhler family has sought assistance from the provincial government to permanently protect their home but have made no progress. They continue to build temporary dikes and remove their animals temporarily to higher ground every year. The minister talks about that he will do this after every flood, but this isn't what the Buhler family need. They need that work done right now.

So will the minister responsible today commit to reviewing the Buhler file and move forward with some permanent flood protection in a timely fashion? Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr. Speaker, I want to stress, too, that we have moved in terms of community protection, not just post-'97 but with this flood mitigation program. I can indicate to the member, by the way, that we have not received any federal commitment to individual flood proofing. We have called for a national program in terms of flood mitigation.

Again, Manitoba is recognized nationally and internationally as a province that has shown that flood mitigation works. So we will–and I will undertake to look at the specific circumstances the member has raised. We will, as we have after every major flood event, be looking at ways we can improve things in the future. But I hope the member will acknowledge a billion dollars worth of investment is making a real

1064 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 difference as we deal with a very significant flood event taking place right now, Mr. Speaker. Overland Flooding Financial Compensation for Farmers Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, cattle ranchers of the Eddystone area experienced hay losses–baled hay losses from overland flooding in September of '09. They were told they would be covered by Disaster Financial Assistance. That was 18 months ago. I ask: When will this government commitment be honoured? Hon.

Stan Struthers (Min ister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Indeed, there's been a lot of challenges that ranchers and farmers have faced for–through excess moisture over a number of years, including 2009. I'm just glad that this government was in place to put in place the Excess Moisture Insurance program that we've put forward that the members opposite didn't seem to have the imagination to do so when they had their chance, Mr. Speaker. We also put in place, in that same summer, the insurance plan that farmers could opt into when they have hay bales that get soaked out on the fields, Mr. Speaker.

That insurance plan is there and it's available for farmers. And my encouragement to farmers, not just in terms of bales but across the board, is to participate in insurance programs as one level of defence against the kind of conditions that we've seen over the last number of years. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Dominion Exhibition Display Building II Mr. Drew Caldwell (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, during the years between 1879 and 1913, the most prestigious agricultural event in Canada was an annual fair known as the Dominion Exhibition.

Each year the Canadian government awarded the honour of hosting the Dominion Exhibition to one of the country's larger fairs, and in 1913 the exhibition was proudly hosted by the Provincial Exhibition of Manitoba in the city of Brandon. A new grandstand was built for the fair; a new racetrack and new display buildings took shape. Over 200,000 people purchased tickets during that 10-day event, which was deemed the best dominion exhibition ever held, although the outbreak of World War I sadly ended forever this national tradition.

The architectural legacy left by the dominion exhibitions was impressive, but today Brandon is the only community in Canada possessing a building constructed for these national fairs. Dominion Exhibition Display Building II, colloquially known as the Dome Building, is an exceedingly rare architectural echo of the great 19th-century world fairs of Paris and Chicago.

Designed in the Beaux-Arts style, this multidomed pavilion bears eloquent testimony to Brandon's historic legacy as the Wheat City of Canada. * (14:30) Display Building II is today being completely transformed under the leadership of the Provincial Exhibition of Manitoba. Designated as a provincial heritage site in 1984 and more recently recognized as a national historic site by Parks Canada, the pavilion is undergoing a multi-million dollar restoration to reflect its former glory.

When completed, Dominion Exhibition Display Building II will provide office space for a variety of organizations, including Manitoba 4–the Manitoba 4-H Council, the Manitoba Agricultural Hall of Fame and the Provincial Exhibition of Manitoba. It will also include space for education, classrooms and an interpretive museum for displays and programs. Display–the Dominion Exhibition Display Building II will be a national destination location for agriculture and tourism, a jewel for the Wheat City.

I am proud to be a strong supporter of this most worthwhile initiative and proud that our government is a full-funding partner in the good work being undertaken. Our investment in Dominion Exhibition Display Building II is a celebration of Manitoba's agricultural and cultural history, an investment in the future of our province and a vote of confidence in the vision of the Provincial Exhibition of Manitoba. Week of the Early Childhood Educator Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): This week, April 24th to 30th, is the 20th annual Week of the Early Childhood Educator.

I'd like to take this opportunity to recognize the important contribution of early childhood educators to the development of children in Manitoba. Early childhood is defined as the period from birth to eight years of age. As more and more research has been done on childhood development and learning, we now know that these years lay the

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1065 crucial foundation for all subsequent learning, because early childhood is a time of significant brain development. The early years of life are critical to the intellectual, social, physical, emotional and creative development that allows individuals to reach their full potential through adolescence and into adulthood. For this reason, early childhood educators have worked hard to create age-appropriate curricula and inclusive environments designed to support early childhood learning.

Teachers work with children to develop independence and problem solving, literacy, math and science skills, to creative experiences and play-based approaches. In addition to cognitive or intellectual skills, play-based approaches are holistic which means they are designed to promote social and interpersonal skills and self-esteem, especially of children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Therefore, early childhood educators face the constant challenge of structuring play to make it more fun and a learning experience.

Early childhood educator s are–also consider it vital to establish good relationships with the families of children. They communicate with families to enhance the overall care and education given to a child inside and outside of the home. We now know that children who experience the benefit of early childhood education have a better chance of succeeding in the school. In addition, research has shown that children involved in education at a young ag e are less likely to be involved in crime and more likely to be employed in a career of their choice as an adult.

For the amount of expertise and dedication displayed by ECEs, they rarely receive the respect and admiration that they deserve. Mr. Speaker, I hope that all honourable members will join me in thanking Manitoba's ECEs for the excellent job they do in preparing children for school and responsible adulthood. I would also like to acknowledge the Manitoba Child Care Association for promoting child care and advocating for early childhood educators. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. German Language Contest Winners Ms. Erna Braun (Rossmere): Mr.

Speaker, I rise today to extend sincere congratulations to the winners of this year's Manitoba German Language Contest, which was held this past February at the Canadian Mennonite University. This year's winners were: Rebecca Epp, Breanna Koch, Isabela Matusz, Akram Hasanov and Michal Goertzen from River East Collegiate, and Daisy Sawatzky and Claudia Dueck from Chief Peguis Junior High School. The River East-Transcona School Division has a proud history of supporting this event as well as German language instruction in its schools through the German Bilingual program.

The aim of this language program is to get students comfortable communicating in German while also enhancing their own language skills. It is an opportunity for students to develop a deeper appreciation of German culture. The German Language Contest is held every year by the Manitoba Teachers of German with the aim of promoting and celebrating German language learning by students across Manitoba. On average, 150 to 170 students from grade 7 to 12 participate in the contest.

Once assigned to one of the four skill levels and three age groups, the participants go through a series of comprehension tests to evaluate their proficiency in reading, writing and listening in German. The students then have an oral interview conducted in German. After an intense morning of tests, everyone reconvenes in the afternoon where the winners in each age and skill category are announced. Winners receive a cash prize and two lucky participants are awarded study trips, one sponsored by the Federal Republic of Germany and the other by the Goethe Institute. Mr.

Speaker, we know that mastering another language is no small feat. I wish to congratulate the students from River East Collegiate and Chief Peguis Junior High on their success at this year's German language contest, and I wish them continued success in the years to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Portage Terriers Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, once again I am pleased to rise today to offer congratulations to the Portage Terriers on yet another outstanding victory. Last weekend, the Portage Terriers defeated the Saskatchewan champion La Ronge Ice Wolves in game 7 to claim the 2011 ANAVET Cup.

When the Terriers took to the ice in game 6 of the ANAVET

1066 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 championship on Saturday the 23rd in front of a sold-out crowd, the team was a powerhouse, shooting 40 times on the Ice Wolves' goalie. However, the Ice Wolves won the game 1-0 to force game 7. On Sunday the 24th, the Terriers were not to be denied.

Inspired by the return of their team captain, Cory More, to the bench, goals by Shaq Merasty, Tanner Harms, Brendan Harms and Kyle Turgeon, and the outstanding goaltending by Jason Kasdorf, who stopped all 24 shots La Ronge sent his way, which resulted in a 4-0 Terrier team win, claiming 4-3 series win over Saskatchewan. The ANAVET Cup win could not be more sweeter as the Terriers did it in front of enthusiastic hometown crowd at the Portage Credit Union Centre. Tonight, Mr.

Speaker, Terrier fans are showing their appreciation of the Terriers' outstanding accomplishments with a free barbecue and some very, very short speeches, including from yours truly. It will be also–to give chance to fans–for fans to take a picture with their favourite player and the Turnbull and ANAVET cups. On Friday, the Terriers will be off to Camrose, Alberta, to represent Canada West in the national junior hockey league championship. The 2011 RBC Cup tournament will be played April 30th to May 8th.

I would like all my colleagues to join with me in congratulating the Portage Terriers on all their accomplishments thus far, and to wish them all the very best in their quest for the RBC Cup and the national junior league hockey championship. Mr. Speaker, the last time the Portage Terriers won the national junior league championship, I was in grade 10, and my classmate, Dan Bonar, was a member of that team before he went on to play for the Brandon Wheat Kings and then the Los Angeles Kings of the National Hockey League. I believe this year's team can, indeed, accomplish that same feat. They are a great team.

They have great coaches and a great constituency of Portage la Prairie, as well as a great province of Manitoba behind them. Thank you very, very much, Mr. Speaker. Water Management Policy Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, since the NDP came to power we've had an inadequate water management policy. The result of this poor water management has been large losses to farmers because their fields are flooded and their crops waterlogged or washed out. An adequate water management plan could have prevented much of the losses to farmers due to excess moisture that we've seen over the 12 years of the NDP.

To get some idea of the size of the losses to excess moisture, which are preventable by much-improved water management, we've only to look at the reports of the Manitoba Agricultural Services Corporation and its predecessor, Manitoba Crop Insurance Corporation. These reports show that the total payouts because of crop losses and the proportion of the loss attributable to excess moisture which results in large part from poor provincial water management.

The losses to excess moisture, most resulting from poor water management, were as follows: in 2000, the payout was $25.6 million; in 2001, the payout was $64 million; in 2002, $32 million; in 2003, $5.7 million; in 2004, $106.9 million; in 2005, $145 million; 2006, $1.7 million; 2007, $72.4 million; 2008, $10.6 million; 2009, $47 million. We're still waiting for the final report for 2010. The total for the years that I have mentioned is $511 million, averaging more than $50 million a year. Of course, the actual crop losses were much more than this, as crop insurance payouts only cover part of the farmers' losses.

Poor water management has cost Manitoba farmers hundreds of millions of dollars. Investing just a fraction of this could have given farmers a much better chance to grow an excellent crop. It would have improved agricultural revenue. It would have been of major benefit to farmers and to all in our province. * (14:40) ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): On House business, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to advise the House that it's the intention for the three sections of the Committee of Supply to meet this Friday.

And we'd be prepared for you to call the Committee of Supply. And for the information of the House, and as discussed with the House leader for the opposition, it's my understanding that Estimates in the Chamber

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1067 will be starting around 3:30 today. Estimates in the Chamber will be starting around 3:30 today. Mr. Speaker: For the information of the House, the House will be sitting in Supply on Friday, and also we will now go into Committee of Supply, and in the Chamber will be Executive Council and it will be starting around 3:30. But in room 255 will be Education, and room 254, Advanced Education and Literacy will start immediately. So will the respective Chairs please go to the rooms that they will be chairing.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ADVANCED EDUCATION AND LITERACY * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates of the Department of Advanced Education and Literacy. It had been previously agreed, questions for the department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I'm just looking forward to the answers to the questions from yesterday so perhaps the minister can read those into the record. Hon. Erin Selby (Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy): Sure, I can do that. I can start with the first one that we have.

The minister–or the member, rather, asked if we supported funding to the Helen Betty Osborne Awards Dinner. We do not provide any funding for the dinner itself. We do buy a table at the dinner so that we can also take

part in the community celebration of these hard-working learners. But, oh, no, the member asked if we support the dinner itself; we do not fund the dinner other than buying a table. Mrs. Taillieu: Just on that point, then, when you purchase the table, that comes out of the department– it comes out of which fund in the department? Ms. Selby: That would come from the Aboriginal education direction–directorate branch. It's considered a hospitality grant and is about a thousand dollars to purchase a table.

Did the member want me to just to go through the questions that she had and answer, or did she want me to stop and let her control that? Mrs. Taillieu: I was just looking for confirmation on something. So, yes, perhaps it would maybe be quicker for the minister to go through the questions, and I'll jot down notes and then we'll go back for questions later. How's that? Ms. Selby: I can do that. I also should point out, as well, the member was asking for more specifics within the loans and bursary line.

We do provide $15,000 within that loans and bursary line for direct scholarships through the Helen Betty Osborne awards and the Aboriginal Education awards. Sorry, I've been corrected–to the Helen Betty Osborne awards. I'm just going through–the member was asking for a breakdown of the lo ans and bursaries and I have that for her. Mr. Ch air, the ACCESS bursaries for the ACCESS program students is 2,000–no– $2 million one hundred–$2.195 million. The Prince of Wales/Princess Anne Awards is $211,000; the Large Animal Veterinary Retention bursary is $50,000; the Winnipeg Education Centre Endowment is $100,000.

As I said earlier, the Helen Betty Osborne foundation is $15,000 and Career Trek is $160,000, and that would be in regards to the question about the breakdown of the loans and bursaries line in the Estimates. Mr. Chair, the member also had some questions in regards to the new Student Aid program that's going in, and the Equifax credit bureau in November, as explained yesterday. We changed the system from what was originally the credit union banking system to the new public sector collection and disbursement model.

After the conversion, the member asked how many students had been affected by an error in the program, and it was–1,500 files were affected. The department was not informed of this problem within it until–we are grateful that one of the people affected brought it to our attention. This was brought to our attention, and the error occurred in early March with the 1,500 files. They had been recorded– reported delinquent. In fact, that was an error, and when we were notified of the problem, it was immediately fixed within the system.

Also, we informed Equifa x of the error so that the students would not be unduly affected, and that their credit rating would be restored to being what it

1068 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 had been before the error. And the information was purged by–from all the client credit histories, as of March 25th, through equinox. The member was looking for more details on–of the timing and I think I just explained that, but I'll j u s t m a k e s u r e t h a t t h a t was clear, that the system transaction transferred over in November. The information was erroneously given to Equifax in early March, and I believe it was March 14th we were notified of the situation and–this–both the students, Equifax and the problem had been fixed by March 25th. Mr.

Chair, the member had asked what personal information does the department collect on the student's financial data. This is, of course, as we explained yesterday, there's a long form that students are expected to fill out, but I can break it down, that students do provide their legal name, their mailing address, the residence address if different from the mailing address, their date of birth, their social insurance number, their bank, the bank account number, the branch, the balances in the bank.

They need to disclose their income, their dependants, their immigration residency documents, whether they have a spouse or parent living with them–that they're living with and, if so, that person's social insurance number and income. Mr. Chair, the member also asked about the security mechanisms within the new Student Aid program, and I can let the member know that the new system is secured by firewalls and other network security controls to pr event unauthorized access to information and services from internal sources, external sources and between system components.

The system is physically secured by government data centre. User access controls within the system limit individuals to information, function and data manipulation actions that are needed to perform a specific job function. The system change, control, auditing and logging functions have been improved to future comply with information protection acts. Internal business users and maintenance and support staff access is logg ed and restricted based on role or need. Business users are required to make an interactive–interaction note detailing when and why they accessed a client's records.

External business partners are required–will require two-factor authentication to establish a VPN to access limited information about their clients. External business partners will have limited access via VPN to internal screens to prevent common-client awards–to view, sorry–let me correct that–to view common-client awards documentation outstanding and update institution client-specific information.

External business partners will locate client records via name, and results will be filtered to only return information fo r the current application revision for clients who have indicated that they are attending the institution on the most current application. Applicants have the choice of applying and corresponding with Manitoba via traditional methods or modern methods.

If the applicant client chooses to use the web internet portal, they will be required to create a portal account by providing their email address, legal name, social insurance number and date of birth to establish a new portal account or link the portal account to their existing student aid application. Once the account and linkage is created, the applicant client will be provided–will be required to provide the username and password to access the internal portal and the account online.

The system and access controls are being used– being used are based on pan-Canadian security standards, as per the Manitoba Information Protection Centre. Mrs. Taillieu: Yes, perhaps I could just do some questions now just on that part that you've just given me. You did give me the information on the ACCESS, Prince of Wa les/Princess Elizabeth veterinary fund, the Winnipeg Endowment, the Career Trek. Can you confirm that all of these come out of the Manitoba Bursary Fund, then? Ms. Selby: Yes, I can confirm that all of those are within the Manitoba loan and bursary fund. Mrs.

Taillieu: Thank you very much, and in regard to the Equifax error that occurred in March, you indicated 1,500 students were affected by that. What attempt was made to contact those students and inform them that thei r personal information may have been compromised? Ms. Selby: Unfortunately, Equifax never contacted us that this situation had occurred, and we are grateful that is was brought to our attention by someone that was affected by it.

When we learned of it, we repaired the system and also contacted Equifax to ensure that they purged the incorrect information to be sure that the students were not affected unduly by this error of–that occurred in the system. We did

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1069 contact students who had raised the issue during the period and confirmed that this, indeed, was a mistake that was fixed and did not unduly affect their history of their credit rating. * (15:10) Mrs. Taillieu: Then would it be true to say, then, that the department is not–does not know which students were affected? Ms. Selby: Yes, we do know which files were impacted.

However, the majority of students during that 11-day period would not have been directly affected in that this is a credit rating bureau, so unless that somebody was specifically applying to have a loan or a mortgage that someone would–a bank or other loaning institute would be checking someone's credit rating then, of course, that could affect the person, and in those cases we definitely made sure that the bank that the student was dealing with and that Equifax was very clear that this was an error and not an accurate representation of the student's credit history.

However, during that 11 -day period, the issue was brought to our attention and those files were purged from the Equifax database. Mrs. Taillieu: Well, Mr.

Chair, there's significant sensitive personal information–all of the things that the minister identifies, such as name, social insurance number, date of birth, bank account informations, the balance in the bank account, income, immigration documents, and then all linked into the Manitoba Bursary Fund–that knowledge, that information was out there and the department became aware of that and made no attempt then to get in touch with the 1,500 students that–I mean, you know–you say there was 1,500, so to know how many, you must have an indication of who these people were–and you made no attempt to notify them, to let them know that personal information may have been compromised and maybe they should be watching their bank accounts?

Ms. Selby: Mr. Chair, I just thought I should clarify to the member how a credit agency works. They do not receive all that information that the member just put on the record. A credit agency would only receive the name of the person, the balance of their loan–not anything more specific than that–and how many months that that loan would've been in arrears. They would not have information such as the member has put on the record. Mrs. Taillieu: How does Equifax get that information that the loan is in arrears? Ms.

Selby: When the student signs an application for a student loan they also have to sign a declaration and are made aware that the information will be shared whether they do pay their student loan on time and whether they maintain those payments with a credit rating agency. This is usually seen as a favourable thing for students because they're new and they're starting out in life and they want to establish good credit, becaus e in the next few years, most understandably, students will be graduating, and perhaps at that point buying a home, starting a family in the next few years.

So, having a favourable credit rating is actually–it's a good first step towards a student making some of those bigger life decisions. So this is something that upon signing the loan application, they do sign the declaration knowing that the information on whether they're maintaining their loan will be shared with the credit rating agency. But, again, I would just like to point out that the detailed information that Student Aid collects is not shared with the credit rating agency. The only information shared is the name, the balance on the loan and how many months that they may be in arrears. Mrs.

Taillieu: You know, it's interesting. I happened to be listening to a radio program a while back where a similar thing happened to a fellow and it took him 10 years to clear his credit rating with an agency that was–had false information about his true credit rating; and, as soon as he would get it purged and think everything was fine and he'd go and try and do something, it would come up again and again. And he was distraught, as you can understand, 10 years of having to deal with this. So it is a serious issue, although I don't think it's being taken as seriously as I think it should be.

But it is a serious issue, and with students that have had this particular report made on them, nothing may happen right now, but something could happen in the future, and I really do think it would be advisable to notify these students that an arrow–error has occurred with their credit rating so that they are aware of it should something come up in the future. I'm wondering why the minister wouldn't think that would be prudent to notify the students that this had occurred, and even though nothing happened to most of them, that it had occurred.

1070 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 Ms. Selby: I agree with the member that nothing did happen to most of them, and I and–the story that she tells of a gentleman with another situation is definitely a disturbing story, and I feel for the individual that had to go through that. But I would point out to the member that we were notified of this problem within 11 days, certainly not 10 years, as the member speaks of, within 11 days this problem was corrected. Unfortunately, Equifax did not notify us of this situation.

I'm very grateful that is was brought to our attention by a student who during that particular time period, for whatever personal reasons that that student had, was able to fi nd out that their credit rating had been erroneously affected. In that time, of course, we fixed the system. We notified Equifax. They purged the file.

So, as it stands, the majority of students who would not have had to inquire about their own credit ratings or had a loan or bank or credit union imply–inquire about their credit ratings, as the member has said, were not affected, and, luckily, thos e files have been purged and their credit history is now back as it should be as it was before the error occurred. * (15:20) Mrs. Taillieu: First, I just want to correct the minister that this was not something that was reported 10 years later.

It was reported immediately and kept reoccurring every time the person went for a credit assessment over a period of 10 years. So, just to clarify that. But, Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask the minister exactly what happened and what guarantees can she give that it's not going to happen to other students. Ms. Selby: And, again, I'd just like to send my, you know, my thoughts and empathy to the individual that the member is speaking of–that I'm not sure what that individual's situation was.

But, of course, in this situation, when we were notified of the error, within 11 days, the error had been fixed and we had notified Equifax and ensured that they have purged their files so that these students' credit history is reflective of their accurate student–their credit history is accurately reflected now. And I'd also just like to remind the member that this did happen in the transition period when we were bringing in phase 1 of the new Student Aid program.

That issue has been corrected, and we have notified–as I said–we have notified Equifax and ensured that they have purged those files so that the students' credit history is now reflected accurately. Mrs. Taillieu: I'll–I think we should move on. So, if the minister has other comments from my questions yesterday, we'll move on to those. Ms. Selby: The member asked yesterday about the tendering of the contract for the new Student Aid program, and I can read some more information into the record of how that process went about.

November of 2008, ICT Procurement Services issued a request for pro posals for an integrated student financial aid information solution. The RFP was issued on behalf of the Service Transformation Manitoba and Manitoba Student Aid, and the closing date was December of 2008. This RFP was comprised of three phases: phase 1 being the solution design; phase 2 being the proof of concept; and phase 3 being the blueprinting and implementation.

The purpose of the RFP was to solicit proposals from qualified proponents to provide a solution designed for phase 1 of the Manitoba Student Aid integrated student financial aid information system. And, due to the critical nature of this business solution, the government of Manitoba wanted to make sure that we engaged a proponent with the capacity and proven experience to plan and carry out the final solution, which would be, of course, phases 2 and 3. As part of phase 1, the proponent was to submit a fixed-price proposal to carry out phase 2 and phase 3.

And the successful proponent was also required to carry out the work in two parts:

part 1 was a fixed-price engagement to complete phase 1, which–as I said earlier–was the solution design; and following satisfactory completion of this work and approval of the resulting business case, the government of Manitoba reserved the right to, and its sole discretion, enter into negotiations with the successful proponent for an agreement to complete phase 2, which was the proof of concept; and phase 3, blueprinting and implementation. The evaluation committee determined that Deloitte and Touche proposal had the highest score and was given the successful proponent.

It was done within accordance of– [interjection] Okay. It was the contract value for phase 1 was not to exceed $350,000; that was met on time and on budget. And the total external SAP implementation resources are estimated at 11.845 million.

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1071 The member also asked if the lowest bid was selected. In this particular case the lowest bid was not selected for the project. The lowest bidder was deemed not to have the experience, knowledge or technical resources to complete the project, and the cost difference was less than $50,000 between the bids. The member also asked how many people–how many companies had bid.

There was a total of three bids but only two were qualified to present, and only one was deemed qualified to do, as you can imagine, a very detailed–and required to have a certain experience and expertise in order to do this particular work. Mr.

Chair, the member also asked about the criteria for the evaluation, and I can read that into the record as well: The proposed solution management approach criteria was understanding the scope and objectives, specific areas of interest to Manitoba, project organizational structure and responsibility, project management and control, risk management, meetings and reportings, quality assurance. There was also sections on proponent history and future commitment, related experience, personnel and other resources.

As well, consideration was taken into the points of Aboriginal business content and Canadian small- and medium-size enterprises and, of course, price was also one of the elements. But as you can see from what I've read into the record, there was a number of other important criteria as well. A certain expertise and experience were also weighed quite heavily in the–in total evaluation of which company would be best suited and awarded this contract. The member had also asked about the original budget, and the scoping phase was put to the tender maximum amount of 350,000, as stated in the tender.

That would be the information on that particular

section that the member asked. I wonder if the member would like me to continue with some other questions she had or to allow her some time for questions. Mrs. Taillieu: I just wanted to clarify: What phase are you at with this information system right now? Ms. Selby: We are currently in the second part of phase 3. Mrs. Taillieu: And at what phase did the Equifax error occur? Ms. Selby: That occurred at the first stage of phase 3. * (15:30) One of the questions that the member asked was she was looking for how much was in the Training Completion Fund.

I can let the member know that there is $1.4 million in the Training Completion Fund. There has only been a payment–the payment total ever taken from that was just one time and it was $34,000 and that came out this year. That's the only time that that fund has needed to be accessed, because, of course, we know that that fund is there should a private vocational school go out of business and leave the students with some of their training incomplete. And so that has only had to happen one time and it happened this year and the total of payout was $34,000. Mrs.

Taillieu: In regard to the Training Completion Fund, then, you indicated that this year was the only time that money was paid out. Were there any request s previously for money that wasn't paid out? Ms. Selby: This Training Completion Fund, of course, is there for students; it's there to support students should something happen, such as unfortunate and untimely closure of a private vocational institution.

Should that happen, as it did this year, the students were helped in terms of transitioning to a new program so that they can complete their studies or they have the option of being reimbursed for the amount of classroom hours that they have paid for but not been able to attend because of the untimely closer. So, no, this hasn't been a situation where students have asked before.

As you can imagine, it doesn't happen all that often that this situation comes up, but should it occur, the students are not out of pocket and this year was an example of the system being there to support them when an unfortunate situation did happen. Mrs. Taillieu: I just want to go back to a question in regard to the Bright Futures fund under Manitoba Bursary.

I believe that yesterday I asked if the money was all from the–well, I think the minister indicated the money all came from the Department of Advanced Education and Literacy, although this seems to be a program that, in part, is perhaps more appropriate under Education. And I believe I asked the question about whether funding came from the Department of Education.

1072 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 I'm going to ask that question again: Does funding for the Bright Futures fund come only from Advanced Education and Literacy or is there money coming from the Department of Education? And, if so, where would I find that in the Estimates book? Ms. Selby: The $4 million for the Bright Futures fund is, of course, shown in the Manitoba Bursary line within Advanced Education and Literacy's Estimates.

Half of that is recovered from the Education Department, K to 12, because, as we said earlier, we do share this, 50 per cent, and the recovery would be shown in Education's budget as being paid out to Advanced Education and Literacy. Mrs. Taillieu: Thank you. Then is it also shown as an intake into the Estimates in the Advanced Education and Literacy book? Ms. Selby: No, it's not shown as an intake; it is just shown as a total expenditure within this department. Mrs. Taillieu: I note on page 9–I just asked the question.

There's transfers of functions– reconciliation statement, there's a transfer of functions–Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors; transfer of recovery auth ority from Family Services and community–or Consum er Affairs, sorry; allocation of funds to Innovation, Energy and Mines; but there's nothing in there in regard to Education. Would this–would that not show in this area? Ms. Selby: I'm sorry, I need to correct something that I put on the record. I had indicated that we shared it with Department of Education, which we did. It has been transferred over to the Department of Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors now.

So it would show up on their Estimate line as a transfer to us, and I apologize for that error. It changed recently and we were thinking of the old department. But I'm sorry, if you could restate your question on the

section 9. Mrs. Taillieu: It's on page 9 of the Estimates book, at the bottom, reconciliation statement. I was looking for something from Education in there. Ms. Selby: The

section on page 9 that the member is referring to, the reconciliation statement, is reflective of particular programs or responsibilities that have moved from the Department of Advanced Education and Literacy to another department. They are a different variety of programs that have moved, portfolios that would have showed up in our budget at the beginning of last year that now would show up in terms of the budget of these other various departments. These are one-time transfers.

The Bright Futures program that the member is speaking of is an ongoing program and an ongoing cost-shared agreement with the Department of Healthy Living. So it would not show up in this particular section. Mrs. Taillieu: Under the Bright Futures program, which helps children graduate grade 12 and is intended to mentor them or enrol them in post-secondary, what does the Peaceful Village program do? Ms. Selby: This is a really–not just an interesting initiative, but something that this government feels really strongly about and the work that the folks do at the Peaceful Village.

The Peaceful Village program minimizes the loss of immigrant and refugee students from the education system between junior high and high school by providing culturally relevant and targeted programming. Programming operates out of Gordon Bell High School for grades 9 to 12 and Hugh John Macdonald School from grades 7 to 9. It includes tutoring, mentoring, elders, family caregiver involvement–really, the entire community, cultural mentorship in the arts, passion projects, and other components designed to facilitate the success in the educat ion system.

And we know that the influence of the program has extended as families and caregivers of the participants are regularly also engaged in the community activities connected to the program. * (15:40) So it's really a great program for connecting, as it says, not just the students to the community, but their extended family as well, and we know that that can be a concern for people who are new to Canada and perhaps, you know, experiencing some change and adjustments to a new culture and perhaps even at risk of feeling isolated.

So this program goes beyond just making sure that kids stay in junior high and high school, and, hopefully, of course, we hope that they go on to a post-second ary education if that's in their future as well. But the fact that it sort of encompasses the whole family and community, just a great program for making people feel more welcome once they've come to Canada and recognizing that supports are there to succeed and to reach people's potential. Mrs. Taillieu: I'm not questioning the program as it– what it does for the immigrant children. I think my

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1073 question is more to–is it appropriate to be funding it here under the Manitoba bursaries fund, which is intended–a mandate of that fund is to pay down student debt. So, although the program is laudable and we're not criticizing the program, I'm just wondering what the mandate for that–where did the mandate for this program come from, and what are the qualifications for an organization to apply for funding from this Peaceful Village fund? Ms.

Selby: One of the commitments of both this government and, of course, of the Manitoba Bursary Program is accessibility an d–for students, and that, of course, is–the goal is to make sure that there are– that students who face barriers, whether that be financial barriers or other barriers, are supported and given the tools that they need in order to reach their full potential, and if that be–and we hope that be a post-secondary education.

So Bright Futures and the Manitoba Bursary Program both have a similar goal in mind in that accessibility being a key component to both their mandates, and to helping every child in Manitoba reach their potential. The member also wanted to know about the criteria for the Bright Futu res fund, and, of course, you can imagine that this is again a very detailed process that also includes site visits. To be eligible for funding, the organizations will be required to meet a number of criteria that is specific to both the organization and the program.

They must be a non-profit community based organization or a school can also partner with an eligible non-profit based community organization. They accept applications for new and expanded programming. If a program wants to expand they do need to demonstrate success in the current programs. New programs need to show that they have the capacity to deliver comprehensive programs. The programs must demonstrate a few components as well. They must be community-based organizations. They must be strongly connected to a school.

They need to seek active parent–parental participation, which is what I speaking of earlier, that the mandate is to include the entire community, the caregivers, the family, as well. The programs must access three specific needs: social support, academic support and financial support. And, in terms of that, that includes long-term support, such as RESPs and bursaries. So, of course, we know that those can only be used if a student attends a post-second ary education; that's the only way that a student would have access to an RESP, which is part of what the program must address.

The programs also need to be aligned with the work of other community agencies and, where possible, we encourage the programs to work with other community agencies. They need to provide short- and long-term goals, and incentives for the participants, and the participants need to understand that there are multi-year commitments because, of course, the goal of this program, like any other program within Bright Futures, is to have students go to post-secondary education. We want them to not only continue through high school but to go on to post-secondary education.

That is the goal, to be accessible and to support students. The organizations also need to indicate how they plan to measure success over the short- and long-term. There are several different things that are going to be considered, in terms of assessing the applications. The socio-economic status and current needs of the students that the organization wishes to target, they need to have secured support, both in non-government support and financial contributions. There need to be connections between the proposed program and some existing programs, as mentioned earlier.

And opportunities, as well, for older youth and community members to be involved both as leaders and elders and mentors because, again, this going back to the fact that this is a program that although, of course, supports students to get through high school and to go on to a post-secondary education, it also supports the whole community and gets everyone involved and it really, really helps with preventing isolation amongst families and the students that it's there to support. Mrs. Taillieu: How many applications do you get yearly for this fund, for the Peaceful Village fund?

I think you said that there was two schools that run it, but are there more people apply? Ms. Selby: Mr. Chair, I just want to be clear that I understand the member's question. I believe the member was asking about, specifically, the Peaceful Village-Manitoba School Improvement Program, and there is just the one program. It's offered at two different schools, the Gordon Bell High School and the Hugh John Macdonald School, but it is still run through the one program.

1074 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 Mrs. Taillieu: I don't want to belabour the point, but just one more question. Then, are other schools eligible to do this, or is it only these two schools? * (15:50) Ms. Selby: As we discussed yesterday, these are the Bright Futures programs–and there are a variety of them–are cohort-based, so, of course, as the students move on to the next level, more students come in to the level–the initiation level. Applications were receive d in the inaugural year of Bright Futures, which was four years ago, and the funds were divided among the qualified programs.

And just perhaps to give the member more clarity, I could read into the record some of the programs that the Bright Futures fund supports if the member would like that.

The Bright Futures fund supports a program coincidentally called Bright Futures at the Seven Oaks School Division; a program through SEED Winnipeg; through Career Trek; through the Boys and Girls Clubs of Winnipeg; the Medical Careers Exploration Program at the Pan Am Clinic; Pathways, Community Education Development Association; Peaceful Village at Manitoba School Improvement Program; Power Up, which is also through the Boys and Girls Clubs of Winnipeg; and the You Can Do It, which is the Winnipeg Poverty Reduction Council. Mrs.

Taillieu: Can the minister indicate if the Department of Advanced Education and learning does any polling, surveys, opinion polls, or participates in any conducted by any other department or organization? Ms. Selby: This department does not do polling, although we will have a survey coming this year. We will be doing an early-leavers survey in this fiscal year. Mrs. Taillieu: Well, it begs the question: What is an early-leavers survey? When is it going to be done? Ms. Selby: The challenge, of course, is just to be able to say early-leaver survey.

The survey is for pe ople who have left a post-secondary institution before completing the program that they were enrolled in. It is planned for this year, but we haven't set the date yet. Mrs. Taillieu: Is this an internally generated survey, or are you going to tender this out to other companies to do the surveyor for you? Ms. Selby: Yes, we will be tendering out for this early-leavers survey. Mrs. Taillieu: Who develops the questions on the survey? Ms. Selby: We will work with the company to develop the questions.

We will let them know what it is that we want to learn and what we're hoping to find out and the information that we would like to collect, and we will use their expertise as to how to best approach that situat ion to get the most clear answers on the survey. We also work with the institutions to see if they have specific information on the same concern of why early leavers have left post-secondary institutions. We work with them to see if they have any particular expectation or expertise that they can also provide as to what they would be interested in knowing in this particular survey. Mrs.

Taillieu: Just for clarification, is the minister, then, saying that the polling company that they're going to hire has an interest in this and wants to answer some–find some information as well? Okay, just for clarification. Ms. Selby: I was referring to the post-secondary institutions that also have an interest in why students are leaving without completing. Mrs. Taillieu: So what other post-secondary institutions would be involved? Ms. Selby: We have seven post-secondary institutions in Manitoba. We would consult with any and all of them. Mrs.

Taillieu: Is this, then, a survey–I'm going to call it a survey, if that's the correct term–the survey, it's being conducted by AEL. Are there any other government departments that might, kind of, I'll use the word piggyback on to this survey to ask other questions, as well, about other things? Ms. Selby: We may have some apprenticeship questions that would also–might be relevant to this particular situation, because, of course, apprentices are trained at our post-secondary institutions.

However, apprenticeship, itself, is not under the jurisdiction of this department, so ETT would be contributing the questions in terms of apprenticeship. Mrs. Taillieu: Is this going to be conducted, then, as a dedicated educational survey, or sometimes polling companies or survey companies will do the questions from one organization and lump them in with

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1075 another organization and put them all together. So, is this dedicated, or is it going to be part of a larger survey? Ms. Selby: It will be a dedicated survey. Mrs. Taillieu: Will the questions be publicly available? Ms. Selby: Yes, they will be made available, either posted on the website or available to anyone who has an interest in them. Mrs. Taillieu: Okay, I think I just asked this question. Yes, the question I have is–I have it under COPSE, but I suppose that's the correct place for it to be in regard to the students leaving college or university early.

And I was going to ask at what stage that was at, but I thi nk that was just covered. Right? Okay. Ms. Selby: I'm just wondering if the member might be finished with, perhaps, the student aid questions that we did earlier, and just if she thinks she's finished with a particular section, perhaps we could let the staff go. Mrs. Taillieu: Yes, I think I'm finished with that line of questioning, and thank you very much for coming back today. I just want to clarify, in case I'm thinking that there's two different surveys. But is COPSE doing a survey, a different survey than the one we were just speaking of?

Okay, this is the same survey. Okay. * (16:00) Ms. Selby: No, you've–it's the same one you're referring to. Mrs. Taillieu: Mr. Chair, and I'm looking at something that I printed off the website. It is so small I'm having a hard time reading it, but it is in regard to the tax rebate. And I want to ask–I know that it's been–I think that there's a significant rebate allocated to students who can complete their post-secondary and stay in Manitoba. But what is the criteria around receiving this tax rebate? Ms. Selby: The tuition rebate, of course, being a tax credit, is under the Department of Finance.

So it would be under their authority, their jurisdiction and probably better put towards the Minister of Finance (Ms. Wowchuk). Mrs. Taillieu: That's interesting because I did print this off the AEL website. So I'm just curious as to whether the rebate only applies to students should they gain employment in their chosen field, or is it any employment in any field? Ms. Selby: We can answer generally because, of course, students benefit greatly from this tax incentive, but it is, of course, under Department of Finance.

But I can tell you that it's any employment; the students just need to be finding employment to be eligible. Mrs. Taillieu: In regard to the funding for post-secondary institutions, I'm sure that, as the minister knows, they've been asking for a multi-year funding for quite some time. And now they've been promised 5 per cent every year for three years. I'm wondering–if that is to the universities–so I'm wondering if this is going to be provided to the colleges as well. Ms.

Selby: Yes, this year Budget 2011 did announce a multi-year funding for universities: 5 per cent this year, 5 per cent increase in operating grants for the next three years. But I also would like to point out this isn't the first year that multi-year funding has been allotted to the universities. They also received it for 2006, 2007, 2008 as well. And this year's budget does allocate 2 per cent increase operating for our colleges. Mrs. Taillieu: Is this a 5 per cent increase for three years to the colleges then? Ms. Selby: The 5 per cent increase for the next three years is for the universities .

And, again, I'll point out that this isn't the first year that universities have received multi-year funding. They also received it 2006, 2007 and 2008. Budget 2011 does increase operating grants to colleges 2 per cent. Mrs. Taillieu: In regard to tuiti ons, the minister has indicated earlier in releases that tuition will be pegged to inflation. Will this apply equally to colleges then as well? Ms.

Selby: Yes, the member is correct that tuition to universities is frozen to the ra te of inflation, offering predictability for both students and their families and the ability for universities, also, to do some long-term planning. Tuition this year being frozen to the rate of inflation puts it at 1 per cent; as for colleges, there will be $100 increase in college tuition for Budget 2011. Mrs. Taillieu: Will this tuition then, that's tied to inflation–will it be applied to each faculty equally or

1076 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 what if a faculty feels it needs a greater increase than the rate of inflation? Ms. Selby: Yes, it would be applied 1 per cent to each tuition is the way that that is explained. Mrs. Taillieu: I was asking if it was applied equally to each faculty. Is that what the minister meant to say? Ms. Selby: Yes, that's correct. So to–1 per cent this year because tuition is tied to–is frozen to inflation would be to each faculty, yes. Mrs. Taillieu: So, if the faculty feels that that's not enough, they have no recourse. That's it. Is that correct? Ms.

Selby: And we really feel that Budget 2011 found a good balance between meeting the needs of students and of the universities. Certainly, the university presidents have spoken very favourably of the operating grants and the funding that they can rely on over the next three years. David Barnard, President of University of Manitoba, says that they are very pleased with the support being provided to the university. Lloyd Axworthy, the president and vice- chancellor of the University of Winnipeg, also says that this will help them to do better long-term planning.

So, in terms of finding the needs and the balance of both the universities to be able to plan and provide the excellent quality of education that we know that they do and are committed to doing, and for students to make sure that university is affordable and accessible, certainly feel comfortable that Budget 2011 finds a balance and has seen both students applaud and the universities, as well, the funding that was laid out in Budget 2011. Mrs. Taillieu: How long will this continue? Ms. Selby: I'm assuming that the member is talking about the tuition. This is government policy that tuition is frozen to inflation.

As for the operating grants, it's 5 per cent increase every year for the next three years for our universities. Mrs. Taillieu: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: Member for Fort Garry–or River Heights, sorry. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Just, thank you, and just to follow up just for some clarification– what I'm hearing from you is that for a faculty like medicine or dentistry or law that the tuition fees will rise at the rate of inflation and not more and not less. Is that it? Ms. Selby: Our government policy going forward is that tuition would be frozen to the rate of inflation.

This year it will be increase of 1 per cent. Mr. Gerrard: And just for clarification that that does apply to medicine and dentistry and law? Ms. Selby: Yes, that's correct. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, I'm looking at this discussion paper on adult literacy in Manitoba, and literacy is one of your significant responsibilities, and this is a 2008 discussion paper, and it says approximately 40 per cent of working-age adults had prose literacy scores below the level considered the minimum for full participation in a knowledge-based economy and society.

And I'm just wondering, in terms of–first of all, what are the latest figures for literacy in Manitoba? * (16:10) Ms. Selby: The survey that the member is referring to occurs every seven years. The next survey will be done in fall of 2011 and the results will not be available until 2013. Mr. Gerrard: And so my follow-up question is: Does the minister do any tracking of this from year to year or are we waiting seven years to know whether things are, you know, better or worse? Ms.

Selby: As the member can imagine, this is a very extensive survey, and just in the answer that I gave earlier that the next survey is being conducted in fall 2011 with the results not being compiled and ready for us to review till 2013. So, with the level of detail required, you can see that it actually takes some time to conduct the survey, and, in a couple of years, between conducting and compiling the results, of course, within individual programs, individuals are evaluated and assessed within those programs. Certainly, that is done. Mr.

Gerrard: It must be difficult on a provincial basis, then, to know just where we are. Can the minister indicate more on the effort that is being taken to try and make sure that, you know, this rather high level of poor prose lite racy scores is addressed? What measures have actually been taken to try and reduce this level? Ms. Selby: I would like to–just to inform the member that, in 2009, The Adult Literacy Act came into effect to guide the efforts to improve adult

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1077 literacy level in Manitoba. This is the first of its kind in Canada. Manitoba, as a government, we fund 41 different agencies that provide literacy programs; 46 adult learning centres are also registered; 41 providing high school programming to students, as well, in that. And we know that about 12,000 adult learners attended one of Manitoba's adult learning and literacy programs.

We also use the Manitoba Stages Framework to provide agencies with common instruction and assessment framework of the underlying principles and skill competency levels for instruction and assessment while accommodating the diverse goals and needs of adult literacy learners. The staging framework does include reading text and document use, writing and oral communication, but, as I said, it also includes an assessment framework of those underlying principles as well. Mr. Gerrard: One of the issues here relates to– we've got a fair number of new immigrants coming to Manitoba.

Can you give us a picture of what their literacy skills are like? Ms. Selby: And, yes, the member is correct; a record number of people have been choosing Manitoba as their home last year. And I don't have the number off the top of my head, but it was a record number of people that have come into Manitoba and decided to raise their families here and live and work, knowing, of course, that the Manitoba advantage, as people are saying across Canada, and apparently around the world, people are hearing of the advantages of choosing to make Manitoba their home.

I should point out to the member that it is the Department of Labour and Immigration that handles immigration and therefore also handles English as a Second Language classes and other supports to help new Canadians both to feel welcome as, of course, they are to Manitoba and to help them prepare and make sure that they have the skills and the knowledge and needs that they may have to prepare to work here in Manitoba. Mr. Gerrard: So I mean, in essence, what I'm hearing from the minister is that she doesn't know what the, you know, literacy parameters are for people who are new immigrants. Ms.

Selby: I think I should point out again to the member that the Department of Labour and Immigration are the folks that are in charge of immigration. Mr. Gerrard: Now, the–in this adult literacy paper, which was April of 2008, it's indicated here that approximately 285,000 Manitobans between the ages of 16 and 65 had prose literacy scores below the level considered the minimum for full participation in a knowledge-based economy and society. My understanding is that the programs of the minister's on adult literacy and adult education have touched about 12,000 adult learners. Is that correct? * (16:20) Ms.

Selby: I should point out to the member that, of course, that the numbers that this department would track are the areas in which that we are responsible for. We're responsible for the adult learning and literacy programs. Those are the numbers that we know how many students are enrolled. But, of course, there are other places that students and adult learners can receive support for literacy. As I mentioned ea rlier, they may receive that support through English as a Second Language programs. It would be through the Department of Labour. In some cases, they may get it through their workplace as well.

So, indeed, that–the people that this department would be aware of who has gone to adult learning and literacy programs would be the ones that have gone through the programs that we fund in this department. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, I mean, I just point out that 12,000 is about 5 per cent of the 285,000 that we're talking about. So it's an important contribution, clearly, but it's only a small proportion of what the real need is. Let me move on to another area.

You know, one of the facts that has troubled many Manitobans is the fact that, you know, the Maclean's rankings for our– the University of Manitoba, of which we are very proud and believe very strongly in, have not been kind to the University of Manitoba, and could the minister speak to this situation? Ms. Selby: I'm sorry, if the member could repeat the last part of his question, please. Mr. Gerrard: I would ask, what is the minister going to do in terms of addressing the situation which concerns many Manitobans, that the Maclean's has ranked University of Manitoba much lower than we would like?

1078 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2011 Ms. Selby: I'm troubled to hear that the member, perhaps–and I think he did say, though, that he understands that the University of Manitoba is an excellent school, one that we're very proud of, and incredibly proud of the quality education that they provide. And, of course, as somebody who's raising three daughters in this province, I'm hoping that they will be looking to the University of Manitoba as, perhaps, one of the post-secondary institutions that, perhaps, one of my daughters would consider.

Of course, we have a number of other high-quality post-secondary institutions in Manitoba and a number of places for them to decide, but, certainly, that would be one that I'm hoping is on their radar. I have a number of friends and colleagues who graduated from the University of Manitoba and, certainly, many of the profe ssionals that I deal with in my personal life have come through the programs at the University of Manitoba as well. This government is proud of the work that they do, happy to stand behind the University of Manitoba and, of course, to support them in terms of our operating grant.

As I mentioned earlier, the university president, Dr. David Barnard, has been very pleased with the operating grant, and has said, very publicly, that the increase that Budget 2011 allows–a 5 per cent increase this year and for the next three years–will allow them to plan and to further improve the excellence and quality of that institution. I believe that this government has shown our support and our commitment to universities across this province with the fact that we've increased the funding of universities of more than 80 per cent since we've been in office.

And for University of Manitoba, funding has–is, as well, increased. We think that it's important to have a balance of an accessible university for students and we feel that we've reached that balance. But, certainly, not only am I proud of the institution, but of the work that they do and, also, of the number of graduates, both family and friends that I know, who have gone through that program. Mr. Gerrard: I would ask the minister whether she considers the Maclean's ranking a serious ranking, or whether she considers it a bogus ranking, and that we should completely forget about it and focus on other areas. Ms.

Selby: And I think that if we look at enrolment at the university over the last 10 years, enrolment is increasing. It seems to me that students are not only eager to sign up and learn with our post-secondary institutions, including the University of Manitoba that has seen general enrolment increases of more than 1 per cent just in the last year.

And certainly, internationally, our reputation must extend beyond the borders of what a quality institution that we have, because we have seen that international enrolment has increased by nearly 6 per cent with international students making up just below 10 per cent of the student body. So, to me, that says that not only do I believe, and this government believe, that University of Manitoba is a high-quality institution, something that everyone in Manitoba should be proud of, along with our other institutions. But our reputation seems to be extending beyond our borders internationally, as well. Mr.

Gerrard: The minister's comments appear to suggest that she believes that the Maclean's ranking is bogus, and that we clearly do have a wonderful institution, but that is the minister–the question is: Is the minister going to look seriously at doing anything about the Maclean's ranking or is she just going to completely dismiss it and focus on other aspects? Ms. Selby: And I believe that Budget 2011 shows a serious commitment of this government to advanced education and post-secondary institutions.

We have increased funding by over 80 per cent since we've been in office, which, I think, is a clear indication of the support that we have for post-secondary institutions in this province. This year's budget is an increase of operating gran ts of 5 per cent over the next three years, something that the universities have all applauded and all been thankful for, and have said that it will help them with future planning and to continue in the excellence and striving, as we all do, to improve all the time.

I think also the fact that our budget in this government also balances the quality of our education with accessibility. We don't want post-secondary education to be something that only an elite group of people are able to access. We know that everyone in Manitoba has a–the right and deserves the chance to reach their potential, and I believe that with increases of over 80 per cent, and on top of that, of course, the support that we have shown to the universities in terms of capital projects. I mean, between 1999 and last year, nearly $400 million in capital grants will be provided to the University of Manitoba.

And one only needs to go to that campus to see it's growing and changing and it's busy. It's full of learners of all ages, excited to be there with ideas and buildings going up as well at the

April 27, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1079 same time. So I believe that, yes, this government is proud of the work that the University of Manitoba does, and I believe that all Manitobans should be. And our record shows our commitment to the university. Mr. Gerrard: Let me move on to talk to–or ask the minister–there are a number of high schools which have advanced placement which are essentially providing first year university training. Does that fall within the minister's department or not? Ms. Selby: That would fall under the Department of Education. Mr.

Gerrard: Has the minister had any discussions with the Minister of Education (Ms. Allan) about whether, you know, what the future is of advanced placement, whether, you know, this should be available to students throughout Manitoba or whether this is something that should be restricted to a few schools? Ms. Selby: This government is certainly committed to providing an easy transition and to supporting students to going from high school, and, of course, increasing our graduation rates at that level, and providing supports for students who wish to continue with a post-secondary education.

There's certainly a number of initiatives that are currently going on that make it even more accessible for students to make that transition. We know that the universities and colleges are already having a number of articulation programs. I believe there's about 30 programs around the province where students can easily transfer the work that they've done at a college or university level and move that into a university, or vice versa, and be recognized.

And, certainly, on an individual basis, students are having their credits recognized that they've done in one institution and being able to bring it to a new one, and, of course, that helps towards a speedier completion.

I know, in my own constituency, a number of students that attend one of the three local high schools also have the option of attending the Louis Riel arts and tech college, and many of them graduate with both their high school diploma and the start towards a career as well. * (16:30) I think it's a wonderful initiative, because we know that while university is the right choice for some folks, as is college for others and apprenticeship may be a choice for others, everyone has a different method of learning and should be supported in reaching the potential in whatever would be the best system for

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-5-36
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 5th hansardpdf 36.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	112734563170f01330c0647660a85acd6cf8e8cc

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